My new piecing thread! - 06/18/12 10:01 PM
My last piecing thread was mysteriously zapped -- thanks to all who contributed, I really appreciate everyone who takes the time to weigh in or at least read. Here's the headlines for those who don't know me:
Married 16, together 18, 3 kids, 13, 11, 7 (need to update the signature!) I had been rolling along in my marriage largely happy and content -- not because the marriage was great, but because I had learned how to cope with it and accepted it for what it was. I sought enjoyment from hobbies, activities, and friends, and got "just enough" from W to keep me from complaining too much. I'm more of a "giver" than a "taker", and I would get very frustrated that my efforts to please W never seemed to make her happy. I would pretty much buy or do whatever she wanted and it would produce temporary happiness, but a couple weeks later it would be back to how it was.
The big issue I had was sex-starved marriage dynamics where W's drive was non-existent and she would agree to sex infrequently, once enough rejections had built up adequate guilt. That lead me to withdraw and to feel very unloved.
I never connected the dots that it was my lack of meeting her needs the way that she needed them met that was causing her unhappiness. Like many people, I was expert in sending in the way I needed to receive, and did not understand, nor could I conceive that it wouldn't have the same value to W that it had to me.
For W's part, she tried to be a dutiful wife and to love me unconditionally despite her unhappiness. She tried to put her needs in the back seat, and never really complained about anything. One of her best friends lives out of state and they talk frequently. This friend is also unhappy in her marriage, and has serial affairs and shares the exciting details with W. I believe that this woman's encouragement, coupled with W's unhappiness lead her to rationalize that seeking outside relationships would be ok, so she did. She started with a couple minor bar-night hookups with strangers, then a several month one-sided EA with a co-worker, then an 8 month full-on EA with a different co-worker.
I was oblivious the whole time, until I got the ILYBINILWY speech for our 15th wedding anniversary. At that point I tried to go into "hyper good husband mode" and offered to do MC, but whatever I did just seemed to make her more distant and colder. Eventually I got suspicious, snooped, and discovered what was going on. At that point OM had already confessed to his W and went "no contact" with W, blocking her on all fronts, which absolutely devastated her.
When I confronted W, I was told we were getting divorced, and that there was no chance of reconciliation. She had everything planned out and had worked through it with an IC. At that point I started to DB -- I gave it everything I had, and some more I didn't know I had!
We started piecing with some ups and downs in August of 2011. I believed I had 180'd all of W's complaints, and that going forward we would have the best, most intimate marriage possible. I read everything I could get my hands on in terms of what it takes to make marriage great, and I set off on that path fully expecting the best.
I got three major surprises on that journey:
1) I read "The 5 Love Languages" and got W to read it too, we discussed it together. I thought "great, we've given each other the owner's manual, the keys to happiness". My Love Language is "Words of Affirmation", but even after discussing that, they didn't come. I asked W about it, and she said that she's not willing to speak that love language, that it's not who she is, and she won't do it. What?
2) I finally got W to agree to go to MC with me, and she told the therapist that she wanted more distance in our marriage than I was trying to create. Since her initial complaint was that she didn't feel connected enough, I was surprised that she would complain about being too connnected, it made me question what I was doing. W's love language is "quality time", so I tried to provide that in spades. W told me that I was providing too much quality time, and asked to dial it back. If that's what makes you feel loved, why would you want less?
3) I asked W for her vision of what her perfect marriage would be. What she described to me sounded like friendly roommates. I asked her how it was different and she said she guessed it wasn't, other than roommates don't have sex.
In short, what I discovered is that W and I were not on the same train in terms of piecing -- our vision of marriage didn't match and therefore we weren't working towards the same goal. With the help of MC, I also learned that W doesn't feel "safe" in the relationship, in that she feels nothing she does will ever be good enough, that I will always have another request for every one she satisfies, so why do anything?
I got very discouraged for a couple months, my needs weren't being met, I was putting in a ton of effort, but once again it was feeling like nothing I did was going to make W happy. It felt like we were heading back to right where we were pre-bomb. We landed there for a reason, it was an equilibrium, and it has a powerful pull. I'm determined not to go back there. I started having thoughts of leaving and giving up, it seemed non-solvable. The advice I got from the best experts I could find was to either (1) accept that my relationship would never get any better, or (2) leave the relationship. They said that if W isn't willing to do the work, I can't fix it on my own.
Here's where I am now: I believe that W does want to be married to me. I believe that W is scared of intimacy with me, and that the pain of the past is not quite erased for her. I believe that "The Five Love Languages" is too simple in our case, although her stated love language is "quality time", I don't think that's really what makes her feel most loved. I'm not sure what does, I think it's a combination of admiration and acceptance of everything she is. I'm still working on figuring that out. I believe that W is not working on meeting my needs because she's not motivated to do so. If she were motivated, it wouldn't be "work", it would just happen. The harshest way of looking at it is that she's not "in love" with me. She loves me, but she's not "in love" with me.
What can I do about that? Well, for one thing I can make myself as attractive as possible, I'm doing Weight Watchers and have lost 20 lbs and I'm still going. I've reduced clutter from my home and become a neater person. I've made an effort to limit hobbies and activities that exclude W. I think the real key, however, is in identifying the secret cocktail of behaviors that will meet W's emotional needs, even if she's not aware of them herself, and couple that with adequate passage of time to erase the scars of the past and make the met needs real and credible.
Maybe that won't work and it's a pipe dream, but that's where I am, for now it seems worth pursuing.
Accuray
Married 16, together 18, 3 kids, 13, 11, 7 (need to update the signature!) I had been rolling along in my marriage largely happy and content -- not because the marriage was great, but because I had learned how to cope with it and accepted it for what it was. I sought enjoyment from hobbies, activities, and friends, and got "just enough" from W to keep me from complaining too much. I'm more of a "giver" than a "taker", and I would get very frustrated that my efforts to please W never seemed to make her happy. I would pretty much buy or do whatever she wanted and it would produce temporary happiness, but a couple weeks later it would be back to how it was.
The big issue I had was sex-starved marriage dynamics where W's drive was non-existent and she would agree to sex infrequently, once enough rejections had built up adequate guilt. That lead me to withdraw and to feel very unloved.
I never connected the dots that it was my lack of meeting her needs the way that she needed them met that was causing her unhappiness. Like many people, I was expert in sending in the way I needed to receive, and did not understand, nor could I conceive that it wouldn't have the same value to W that it had to me.
For W's part, she tried to be a dutiful wife and to love me unconditionally despite her unhappiness. She tried to put her needs in the back seat, and never really complained about anything. One of her best friends lives out of state and they talk frequently. This friend is also unhappy in her marriage, and has serial affairs and shares the exciting details with W. I believe that this woman's encouragement, coupled with W's unhappiness lead her to rationalize that seeking outside relationships would be ok, so she did. She started with a couple minor bar-night hookups with strangers, then a several month one-sided EA with a co-worker, then an 8 month full-on EA with a different co-worker.
I was oblivious the whole time, until I got the ILYBINILWY speech for our 15th wedding anniversary. At that point I tried to go into "hyper good husband mode" and offered to do MC, but whatever I did just seemed to make her more distant and colder. Eventually I got suspicious, snooped, and discovered what was going on. At that point OM had already confessed to his W and went "no contact" with W, blocking her on all fronts, which absolutely devastated her.
When I confronted W, I was told we were getting divorced, and that there was no chance of reconciliation. She had everything planned out and had worked through it with an IC. At that point I started to DB -- I gave it everything I had, and some more I didn't know I had!
We started piecing with some ups and downs in August of 2011. I believed I had 180'd all of W's complaints, and that going forward we would have the best, most intimate marriage possible. I read everything I could get my hands on in terms of what it takes to make marriage great, and I set off on that path fully expecting the best.
I got three major surprises on that journey:
1) I read "The 5 Love Languages" and got W to read it too, we discussed it together. I thought "great, we've given each other the owner's manual, the keys to happiness". My Love Language is "Words of Affirmation", but even after discussing that, they didn't come. I asked W about it, and she said that she's not willing to speak that love language, that it's not who she is, and she won't do it. What?
2) I finally got W to agree to go to MC with me, and she told the therapist that she wanted more distance in our marriage than I was trying to create. Since her initial complaint was that she didn't feel connected enough, I was surprised that she would complain about being too connnected, it made me question what I was doing. W's love language is "quality time", so I tried to provide that in spades. W told me that I was providing too much quality time, and asked to dial it back. If that's what makes you feel loved, why would you want less?
3) I asked W for her vision of what her perfect marriage would be. What she described to me sounded like friendly roommates. I asked her how it was different and she said she guessed it wasn't, other than roommates don't have sex.
In short, what I discovered is that W and I were not on the same train in terms of piecing -- our vision of marriage didn't match and therefore we weren't working towards the same goal. With the help of MC, I also learned that W doesn't feel "safe" in the relationship, in that she feels nothing she does will ever be good enough, that I will always have another request for every one she satisfies, so why do anything?
I got very discouraged for a couple months, my needs weren't being met, I was putting in a ton of effort, but once again it was feeling like nothing I did was going to make W happy. It felt like we were heading back to right where we were pre-bomb. We landed there for a reason, it was an equilibrium, and it has a powerful pull. I'm determined not to go back there. I started having thoughts of leaving and giving up, it seemed non-solvable. The advice I got from the best experts I could find was to either (1) accept that my relationship would never get any better, or (2) leave the relationship. They said that if W isn't willing to do the work, I can't fix it on my own.
Here's where I am now: I believe that W does want to be married to me. I believe that W is scared of intimacy with me, and that the pain of the past is not quite erased for her. I believe that "The Five Love Languages" is too simple in our case, although her stated love language is "quality time", I don't think that's really what makes her feel most loved. I'm not sure what does, I think it's a combination of admiration and acceptance of everything she is. I'm still working on figuring that out. I believe that W is not working on meeting my needs because she's not motivated to do so. If she were motivated, it wouldn't be "work", it would just happen. The harshest way of looking at it is that she's not "in love" with me. She loves me, but she's not "in love" with me.
What can I do about that? Well, for one thing I can make myself as attractive as possible, I'm doing Weight Watchers and have lost 20 lbs and I'm still going. I've reduced clutter from my home and become a neater person. I've made an effort to limit hobbies and activities that exclude W. I think the real key, however, is in identifying the secret cocktail of behaviors that will meet W's emotional needs, even if she's not aware of them herself, and couple that with adequate passage of time to erase the scars of the past and make the met needs real and credible.
Maybe that won't work and it's a pipe dream, but that's where I am, for now it seems worth pursuing.
Accuray