H says ready to work on relationship, now what?

I am looking for insights from experienced Piecers on this board. I have posted my sitch in newcomers (see link below). Yesterday, I was surprised when my H said he was ready to work on our relationship. I need advice on how to proceed. I don't want to do anything that would set us back now that he is actually open to reconciling. Please help!

My Newcomers Thread

Hi SD! I read your thread and saw your latest post.

Although it does seem that your H has some positive changes, Cadet may be right that it may be just a touch and go.

If it is MLC then the timeline seems rather short, he may just be peeking. He did have some hard lessons though which could have helped him along, like the time he got demoted. Also, you have been handling it so well so far! Unlike many of us here, you seem to be so well controlled. I think it helps that you have no children, as there are less factors to complicate or cause strong emotions.

Read through the different threads here. Things you will find out is that piecing is that it:

1. One of the hardest phases - this is because we have gotten used to the bad situation and have adjusted our ways and our expectations. We do GAL, we detach.... and suddenly, things change.

2. Takes time - remember that it took time to get to where you are now. Things will not get better overnight. Feelings will not come back easily. Part of piecing is making the decision to re-commit, and to love again. Sometimes the decision is made in the head but it takes time to mean it. On your part, you will be battling with trying to trust again, forgiving, putting any images of OW in your mind.

Keep on doing what you are doing, and let your H lead the situation. No expectations as for now. Don't pressure him. He should be the one who wants to come back fully,not because you made him do so or held him to his word (I know you are doing exactly that, just wanted to validate), to make the decision and the realizations and learn the lessons fully. Just be the kind of person he loved before, that he would want to come home to. You have been doing great so far.

Wow, angel61. Thank you so much for taking the time. This is such a lonely journey sometimes and I don't know what I would do if I did not have this board to vent and learn from others.

Originally Posted By: angel61

Unlike many of us here, you seem to be so well controlled. I think it helps that you have no children, as there are less factors to complicate or cause strong emotions.

Thank you for noticing. Yes, I have had to exercise more discipline and self-control through this than any other time in my life. That's not to say I haven't said a few things I regret, but I usually catch myself, and correct course as fast as I can. I honestly don't know how I do it. So many times I have wanted to get angry at him, or cry, or confront him, or whatever. But I always think about what I read in DR, which is 'is what I am about to do going to get me closer to my goal? If not, don't do/say it.'

Originally Posted By: angel61

If it is MLC then the timeline seems rather short, he may just be peeking. He did have some hard lessons though which could have helped him along, like the time he got demoted.

Yeah, I don't know if this is an MLC. He presents many of the classic symptoms. However, now I have leared that he may have reactive attachment disorder (RAD) which is actually a condition that develops in children under 5 years old. In adults, it is usually manifested as Borderline or Histrionic peresonality disorder. One thing I have noticed lately is that H demonstrates some narcissistic traits and seems to seek out attention. I never noticed it before, but perhaps it has always been there.

Originally Posted By: angel61

Things will not get better overnight. Feelings will not come back easily. Part of piecing is making the decision to re-commit, and to love again. Sometimes the decision is made in the head but it takes time to mean it. On your part, you will be battling with trying to trust again, forgiving, putting any images of OW in your mind.

This is so insightful. My mistake was thinking that once he said he wanted to recommit, the feelings would be there as well. However, based on what happened yesterday, I think you are right. Maybe in his mind he thinks he wants to reconcile, but his heart is not in it. IMO one of the biggest obstacles right now is OW. Although they are no longer together, they text each other pretty much on a daily basis (I know i shouldn't snoop, but again it's me wanting to know if I can actually trust him). As long as this contact continues, I dont' think there will be a chance for us. I never mention OW or the fact that I know they are still in contact.

Originally Posted By: angel61

Keep on doing what you are doing, and let your H lead the situation. No expectations as for now. Don't pressure him. He should be the one who wants to come back fully,not because you made him do so or held him to his word, to make the decision and the realizations and learn the lessons fully. Just be the kind of person he loved before, that he would want to come home to. You have been doing great so far.

Thank you for validating my efforts so far. I will continue doing what I am doing and basically pretend he never said what he said about reconciling. Just keep acting as I have been with no pressure or demands. He knows what he said to me and if he is in fact sincere, over time it will be reflected not just in his words, but in his actions.

I think you should DB even harder now. Do your own thing, do not hang on to his every word or promise.

I think he is just reeling you in, making sure you are still there. It is the old pursuit and distance dance. When you are the distancer, he pursues, and vice versa.

You are right. My DB coach said the same thing today. I posted some of his advice in my Newcomers post. DB Coach says he lays out some bait to see if I jump. So far, I usually take the bait. Now I need create more distance and get busy GALing!

In my sitch my H used to say, even when it all started, that he knew he was coming back to me someday. This was repeated all througout the year and a half that we were having problems, in different ways.

It may seem unfair, but it seems like what they are asking is for time to figure things out. Deep inside they know they would not leave.

Is it part of MLC? Finding themselves? maybe.

But I sure know that detaching, GALing and all the DB principles are there to protect ourselves.

Originally Posted By: Some Day

You are right. My DB coach said the same thing today. I posted some of his advice in my Newcomers post. DB Coach says he lays out some bait to see if I jump. So far, I usually take the bait. Now I need create more distance and get busy GALing!

what exactly did your H say when he claimed to want to work on things? I missed what he actually said. Did he text that to you? And after this "let's reconcile" text, he then contacted OW and or some other girl?

Is that correct?

here is what else you posted in another thread:

I feel like a doormat many times. It's hard for me to act uninterested, but I see your point. He has no doubt in his mind that I would take him back if he truly wanted to come back.

I have been doing a lot of GALing and a lot less initiating contact or invitations than I used to, but most of the time if he contacts me, I am there for him. It's hard for me not to be. I don't know, I guess I should try acting more disinterested and unavailable.

this ^^^ is clear to me. You MUST become more unavailable even if you "feel" interested. Where the head goes, the heart will follow...if you allow it.

So, you need to KNOW what you need to do and do it, even if you don't "Feel" like it. Eventually you will become more comfortable with that, especially when you see some results.

I don't think the results you are getting right now are what you want. His behavior is mixed or as Cadet says, a "touch and go". That is something you can respond to, differently. When you do new behaviors, you'll eventually see different results.

This takes time. Expect no changes to last, in a short time. He has a lot to process. He's very confused, and conflicted.

By the way, he didn't wear his wedding ring yesterday. I suspect he just wanted it for the interview.

agreed...hence no words of explanation.

Had a great time tonight going ice skating with a friend. It was my first time on the ice and I actually did ok. I didn't fall once! It was also a welcome distraction from the heartache yesterday and this morning. H actually invited me to go to a friend's BBQ today, but I turned him down telling him I had errands to run.

Next time say you have plans, and stay vague. I am not saying you must lie. But volunteering details is not necessary.

And it's NOT helping you or your cause. The "mystery" concept is FOR saving the marriage. Start seeing it that way and it'll help.

He continues texting and calling the OW (I know, I need to stop looking at phone records...I'll get there some day). In fact, she called and texted him this AM. And he called her in the afteroon. He has also continues texting his girlfriend (or whatever she is). So, to Cadet's point, if he were really serious about reconciling he wouldn't be texting/calling these two women everyday. He has more contact with them right now than he does with me.

So, why are you discussing a reconciliation? I mean, what does that word mean in this context?

I can see you two possibly dating...IF HE makes a move towards it.

But I can also see NOT dating him anytime soon. OR saying "no thanks, I'm busy".

You simply must show him that he risks SOMETHING by doing this yo yo game, or he'll have no reason to stop.

You MUST also go out of your comfort zone for many reasons but the main one is,

if you don't NOW go out of your comfort zone and GAL meeting other people, you will be Forced to later, when you single and hurting more than you are now.

Now, GAL and getting out of your comfort zone may help your marriage but for sure will help YOU...

Later on, it'll only be for you.

If you do NOT GAL then
1) you LESSEN the chance of a real restoration of your marriage and

2) even if you did reconcile, you'll lack confidence and you will probably always having that nagging free floating anxiety in the back of your mind that you are not interesting enough...not exciting enough, NOT MYSTERIOUS enough....and that will set you back and keep you from true happiness

and from truly being fully intimate with your h. The worse you feel about yourself inside, the more you'll hold back and the more you will depend on him for your own self esteem.

That is not fair to HIM. It's making him responsible for your happiness; and he's not. It's not his job to make you feel worthwhile. He should treat you well, of course. But your self esteem and your happiness are YOUR responsibility.

When one partner revolves around the other.
It means you are basically bringing nothing to the table b/c you are merely his auxiliary. His "mirror"....

I don't know if he's narcissistic and if that is why the marriage lasted this long.
And I don't want to summarize an 11 year marriage with a sentence or Reader's Digest version of a relationship I'm sure is more complex.

But I know you are not happy and you won't be happy with THIS MAN, if you don't GAL and feel better about yourself.

Then you'll be more confident and you will bring something to the table - like your own interest and hobbies and friends and things that have nothing to do with him.

He may want to join in your interesting life or not. But if all he gets is the same old comfort of the used blanket, he's going to keep wandering after he gets his fix.

You can turn this around but it'll mean you changing. Yes, YOU must change.

You are the one here posting...he's not. Embrace the fact that YOU are willing to change b/c it is empowering. Try to see it that way.

Down the road, perhaps a long road, he will need to change too. We know that.
He may or may not. But you don't control that. So for now, it's ALL you...

Remember as DB says, a m is a relationship between 2 people. If one of those people changes, then the r itself changes, by definition.

So for now, it's all you.

I strongly recommend you do everything in your power to GAL without him and to imagine life without him

but happy...

what would that look like? If he died and enough time had passed, surely you would not shrivel up and die? What would you be doing?

Envision it with details in mind. Who are you hanging with? What are you doing with your time? What new classes/seminars or hobbies would you take up?
What is making you happy in this scenario?

What clubs or churches or clubs would you join? Which of those things can you create in your life NOW?

Here are some suggestions that worked for me.

Most don't cost much.

Most were new to me at the time. Some of them changed my life.

I took flying lessons and got a pilot's license.
Joined a church I liked
Joined a writer's group. Something I wrote was entered in a festival & won.

Began doing stand up comedy. I now write jokes as an avocation.

Took a pottery class. (Very different for me).

Took a photography class.

Joined the Officer's Wives club, which was surprisingly fun. ( I had been way too judgemental about the club before. My loss. I made some great friends there.)

Worked out often/regularly.
(Got in best shape I'd been in a long time. I looked good-felt better about myself.)

Got a new hair style, wore new perfumes I enjoyed. Simple but comforting.

Saw a shrink, got on meds for the winter. They helped.

Volunteered at the Battered women's shelter and got on the board of Directors.

Learned to hunt/fish.

Edited a book.

Took a cooking class.
Auditioned for plays and got roles. Met cool new people.

Gave free seminars on financial management, mostly to women's groups.

Volunteered at the kids's schools. Went on their field trips too.

Most of these involved meeting new people. ALL of them helped me remember what I offer others.

You need to see the value you have in you. You need to realize your gifts and strengths and that your h will lose a lot if he loses you. Believe this.

When I realized finally, that my h was going to do whatever he was going to do and that all I controlled was ME and MY future I detached and

I really GAL.

I began to truly believe that I would be happy no matter what. I began to BE HAPPY and my kids benefitted from that too.

I am sure this radiated from me. Why? B/C I believed it. So it showed.

I think, but cannot prove, that my h noticed this. I think, but cannot prove, that

h began to think HE was going to lose more than I was, by leaving.

Frankly, I don't know what my H was thinking/doing/planning b/c

I stopped focussing on him and his choices

and instead did what I could to make MY Life and the life of my kids, better.

When my h began to change and want to reconcile, he said a lot of things I needed to hear. I heard him but did nothing different. I was pleasant and upbeat but busy. I was not going to be derailed by his words...

Until he DID somethings, I could not waste my energy or hopes on what MIGHT happen with him...

I had created a good life for me and my kids and was not about to toss it away to go back to crazy-pain land, b/c h missed me or had some doubts & wanted to check that I was still waiting for h.

I knew He needed a lot of certainty after 2 years of vascillating
and me letting that make me nuts

til I felt certain of HIS certainty, I was just not interested in risking my hard earned gains for another round of his MLC stuff.

Plus, frankly, I had begun to realize that NOT all was horrible without h. There were upsides to his absence. I really was going to be happy no matter what.

When you see this and believe it (or fake it til you make it, gimmicky but true)

you'll feel better.

Thanks 25yearsmlc. Your post couldn't have come to me at a better time. I'm starting to feel stronger and willing to DB hard as angel put it. I will address some of your comments/questions below.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

what exactly did your H say when he claimed to want to work on things? I missed what he actually said. Did he text that to you? And after this "let's reconcile" text, he then contacted OW and or some other girl? Is that correct?

He told me he had been thinking a lot and that he thought he was ready to work on our relationship. That was on the phone after a brief text exchange. Yes, he continues to contact OW and other girl on a daily basis (texts and phone calls). My DB coach believes H was not sincere about his wanting to reconcile and was only a panicked reaction to finding out I was going on the cruise.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

here is what else you posted in another thread:

I feel like a doormat many times. It's hard for me to act uninterested, but I see your point. He has no doubt in his mind that I would take him back if he truly wanted to come back.

I have been doing a lot of GALing and a lot less initiating contact or invitations than I used to, but most of the time if he contacts me, I am there for him. It's hard for me not to be. I don't know, I guess I should try acting more disinterested and unavailable.

this ^^^ is clear to me. You MUST become more unavailable even if you "feel" interested. Where the head goes, the heart will follow...if you allow it.

So, you need to KNOW what you need to do and do it, even if you don't "Feel" like it. Eventually you will become more comfortable with that, especially when you see some results.

I don't think the results you are getting right now are what you want. His behavior is mixed or as Cadet says, a "touch and go". That is something you can respond to, differently. When you do new behaviors, you'll eventually see different results.

This takes time. Expect no changes to last, in a short time. He has a lot to process. He's very confused, and conflicted.

How do I do this without being mean? Is it just saying I am busy or have plans when he asks me to do something? Is it ignoring his text messages or not responding right away? I know him, and the moment I start doing this, he will ask me what is wrong? How should I respond then?

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Next time say you have plans, and stay vague. I am not saying you must lie. But volunteering details is not necessary. And it's NOT helping you or your cause. The "mystery" concept is FOR saving the marriage. Start seeing it that way and it'll help.

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What should I say if he asks? I have tried being vague before and then he starts asking me questions, i.e. where am I going, who am I going with, etc.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

He continues texting and calling the OW (I know, I need to stop looking at phone records...I'll get there some day). In fact, she called and texted him this AM. And he called her in the afteroon. He has also continues texting his girlfriend (or whatever she is). So, to Cadet's point, if he were really serious about reconciling he wouldn't be texting/calling these two women everyday. He has more contact with them right now than he does with me.

[color:#FF0000]
So, why are you discussing a reconciliation? I mean, what does that word mean in this context?

Point taken. This is what my DB Coach said too. He can't just say the words. I need to make it clear to H, that reconciling will take work and one of those non-negotiables is HIM proving to me that there is no contact with OW and gfriend. He told me to wait until H said something about reconciling again and at that point make it clear that if he is going to win me back, he has work to do, and I am worth it.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

even if you did reconcile, you'll lack confidence and you will probably always having that nagging free floating anxiety in the back of your mind that you are not interesting enough...not exciting enough, NOT MYSTERIOUS enough....and that will set you back and keep you from true happiness.

That is not fair to HIM. It's making him responsible for your happiness; and he's not. It's not his job to make you feel worthwhile. He should treat you well, of course. But your self esteem and your happiness are YOUR responsibility.

When one partner revolves around the other.
It means you are basically bringing nothing to the table b/c you are merely his auxiliary. His "mirror"....

That is not fair to HIM. It's making him responsible for your happiness; and he's not. It's not his job to make you feel worthwhile. He should treat you well, of course. But your self esteem and your happiness are YOUR responsibility.

When one partner revolves around the other.
It means you are basically bringing nothing to the table b/c you are merely his auxiliary. His "mirror"....

This is so true. My self-confidence/self-esteem is on the floor right now. And I have always felt that I am boring and not interesting. And yes, my life revolved around my H. I thinks that's why I've been floundering so much. So yes, I need to GAL harder for ME!

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

I strongly recommend you do everything in your power to GAL without him and to imagine life without him but happy...what would that look like? If he died and enough time had passed, surely you would not shrivel up and die? What would you be doing?]

I need to GAL harder. So far my GAL activities have included:
-Rock climbing
-Hang gliding
-Riding rollercoasters (I would never get on them before)
-Took swimming lessons (I didn't know how)
-Accepted invitations from friends to go out to dinner, to the club, to go see a movie, to go ice skating (didn't know how)
-I bought some new clothes and jewelry
-Started taking better care of my appearance after neglecting it when this whole situation started up
-Went do the beach, an amusement park, and some other area attractions by myself (something I would have never done before)
-Allowed myself to have a drink socially (not to get drunk; just enjoy one or two drinks when I have been out with my friends. I never did this before)
-I go to the gym 3-4 times a week and have started doing weights and classes I was too afraid to do before
-I take dance classes (great for meeting people!)
-I will be going on a cruise by myself and plan to do activities I have never done before (parasailing, etc.)

Some things I am considering are getting more involved in my community and volunteering. Get out of the house and walk more. Try to be more sociable (I'm an introvert so I find it hard to make friends).

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

You need to see the value you have in you. You need to realize your gifts and strengths and that your h will lose a lot if he loses you. Believe this.

I really need to work on this. DB Coach says I need to believe that I am wonderful and worth it.

It's been slow in coming, but I think I am finally ready to REALLY dettach and do all these things that you, the others, and my DB coach have suggested. Thank you so much!

Another quick question. When he does invite me to do things, should I always turn him down or should I accept some of them?

Wow! This post is very helpful! Thanks to you for beeing so open. I am not a great writer I rather dislike writing, but I needed to say this! Thank you and Merry Christmas!!

So had a convo with H today over the phone. He says he still loves me, doesn't want to lose me and wants us to work on our relationship. He even talked about breaking his lease so he could move back in.

Personally, I'm a little scared. I told him that he would need to rebuild my trust and that a non-negotiable for me was that all contact with OW and girlfriend had to stop. He says OW is the one initiating contact and insisting after he has told her repeatedly no. He says the girlfriend is just a friend and he has no feelings for her.

H says he is willing to break off his relationship with both these women and would also consider going to counseling. He says he is scared that he'll come back and things won't work out for us. That statement scares me because it makes me feel like he's not truly committed (even though he says he is).

Please, what should I do? I don't want to rush into anything. Should we start hanging out more and doing things together, talking on the phone, etc? How do we both overcome our fears and reservations?

In regards to counseling, are the DB coaches qualified to do marriage counseling or should I seek someone face to face? How do I find a good one?

My head is spinning right now. I dont' know what to do.

Yesterday, after our phone convo, H and I met in person and discussed this further (see above). He told me he loved me and missed me and didn't want to lose me. He apologized for hurting me. He kept reiterating that he wanted to come home and was willing to give his all to our relationshup.

I once again expressed that I can't tolerate contact w/ OW or his girlfriend. He said he agreed this was detrimental to our marriage and that he would stop it. He told me he had already spoken to his leasing agent and was ready to terminate the lease and move out in mid-January. He talked about the furniture he had acquired and where we could place it in our home. He also mentioned sleeping over once in a while until he terminates the lease.

All these things were brought up by him, not me. A few times I told him that I wanted him to be sure 100% and that it was something he truly wanted. He repeatedly said he was sure of what he wanted. He also said he knew that OW was not the right person for him. That she made his life chaotic and that when he was with her, he felt like he was pretending to be someone he's not (she's in her 20's and quite immature).

A good thing that came about is that H finally shared some of his feelings with me. He felt that my distancing from him made him feel like I didn't really care about him and made him question whether I truly loved him. He said he wanted to feel from me like I truly love and care about him. He shared with me what he liked and disliked about me. He told me he feels loved when we spend quality time together, show physical affection, and I give him words of affirmation. He admitted that he had taken up drinking excessively on weekends to numb the pain and that he knew this was wrong.

Last night, he slept over. Today, we spent most of the day together and we ML. As the day progressed he seemed to become more withdrawn. After dinner, he left to go back to his apartment and spend the night over there. I know that it's better if we move slowly and I give him the space to gradually come back vs. moving in tomorrow, but I must say that I felt sad and hurt that he wanted to go back to his apartment. However, I did not ask him to stay.

This is all new to me and I'm extremely scared. How do I manage this? He wants to come back to our marriage and our home in January. And I told him that he could come back as long as he demonstrated that all contact with the OW is over and I also conveyed that we would need to rebuild our trust. We both agree that we need to go to counseling so we don't repeat the same mistakes.

I'm guessing that I should expect him to be demonstrative one day and withdrawn the next as part of this process, right? I realize he has been out of the home for the past 5 months and it will take a while to make this transition. Thoughts?

Hello everyone.
I wanted to provide an update on my situation to hopefully help others in the same boat and validate those who gave me spot on advice. Here goes...

Against my better judgment and the advice I got on these boards, I let my emotions rule my actions and I allowed my H to move back at the beginning of the year. He promised to end all contact with OW and go to counseling with me. He told me he would tell me if OW tried to contact him in any way. The first couple of weeks everything seemed great. He was loving, affectionate, etc. Then I started noticing he was acting distant again. He got angry when I asked him for access to his email passwords, etc. Still, I fooled myself into believing this was all part of the healing process and that we just needed time to get used to living together again and repairing our relationship.

The week of Valentine's day I got an unexpected email from the OW's husband. He told me my H and his W had started the affair back up again. I asked for proof and he sent me a few emails he had gotten ahold of. I couldn't believe it. All the anger that I had suppressed for so long came flowing out of me. The first thought that came to my mind was divorce.

When H came home from work, I asked him why he hadn't told me that he had been in contact with OW. He said he was planning on telling me that week. I then told him that I knew he was sleeping with her again and that I had spoken to her H. I asked him to come clean. I started crying and screaming hysterically. I pushed his arm and chest repeatedly with all the strength I could muster. I took his new cell phone and slammed it against the floor repeatedly until it shatterred. I fell to the ground shaking and crying and screaming hysterically.

He told me he had created a new email address to commmunicate with her. He told me they had started back up again in mid January (about two weeks after he had moved back into our home!). They had sex a few times at work in her office (after work hours). He also had sex with her a few times while I was away on a business trip. He would go to her apartment. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I wanted to throw his axx out of the house and file for divorce the next day.

He gave me his password to the new email he created and I found several emails they had exchanged as well as tons of pictures she had sent him in racy lingerie as well as completely naked. I cried and screamed some more. He left the house. He came back a couple of hours later and told me he wanted to talk.

I told him I could no longer trust him. I asked him what he wanted. I told him that if he did not love me and did not want to be with me, he just needed to say it. I told him if he wanted to be with OW, I would not intervene... he could pack his things and go. I would not bother him again and I would not ask him for money. (I earn enough to live on my own comfortably and don't need his financial support)

He cried, sobbed, begged, pleaded with me, asking him to forgive him. He said he had finally come to his senses and knew that he loved me and wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. He cried for hours, begging me not to leave him or divorce him. I saw him cry like this for the first time in our 12 year marriage. I had never seen him like this. I think he sensed that I was seriously considering divorce and he would lose me forever.

We both slept on it and the next day we talked some more. I knew in my heart that I still loved him. I knew that I was ready to let him go if that is what he wanted. I also knew that if he could prove to me with his actions, not just words that he truly believed in us and wanted to stay, I would be willing to go through the hurt and pain all over again to recover our marriage.

When we spoke again, he said he would do ANYTHING i asked to earn my forgiveness and trust. (Note- I had never heard him say this before). He asked me what I needed. I told him all contact with OW must cease and I needed to be part of that communication. I told him he needed to come clean with his mom and brother and tell them what he had done. I wanted access to all of his online accounts, passwords, computer, cell phone, etc. I wanted him to change jobs (he works with OW). There were many more things I asked for. He agreed with all of them and over the next few days began to follow through.

He crafted an email to the OW, which I read before he clicked send. In the email he was clear about wanting no further contact with her, not loving her, loving me and wanting to spend the rest of his life with me. The next few days were rough. She would confront him at work and demand answers. She followed him with her car one day after work at confronted him while they were both a a stoplight. He would tell me about all the incidents and he continued to say he had nothing to say to her and that she needed to leave him alone. She became very angry and sent me several nasty emails.

Her emails were hurtful, she would list all the reasons why my H did not love me and why he loved her. She mentioned our "lame" sex among all the things that were wrong between me and my husband. She said many hurtful things. I would show my H the emails and he would get very angry. However, we both felt it was best not to respond and just completely ignore her. Then, her husband began to threaten my H. At one point, he followed him after work and confronted him in a parking lot, threatening to "put him in the hospital" for what he had done to him.

From what I gather, the H is still extremely hurt and angry and wants to seek revenge. I also think he is trying to scare my H, so that he stays away from his wife for good. They are currently not living together and he says that he cannot forgive or trust his wife anymore.

In the last couple of months, things have died down. There hasn't been any contact that I'm aware of. My H started a new job. I installed surveillance software on his computer and cell phone. There has been no suspicious activity so far, and the GPS tracking shows him being where he needs to be. I hate that I have stooped to spying, but right now, that is the only way I can manage my trust issues.

I have seen a sincere effort on his part to help us heal. He is more open with me and we are slowly learning to communicate again. I must say, this time around it is much harder for me. While I can forgive him, I can't say I trust him. I know this can take years. So, I'm taking things one day at a time.

Sorry for the long story, just wanted to share my journey so far

All I can say is that I am speechless. I could visualize everything you wrote.

It never ceases to amaze me how deceptive people can be, and also how forgiving. None of us can see the future, but we all know full well the places that a bad decision can take us to, even if it *feels right* at the time.

I hope your life together from this point forward becomes everything you hope it to be.

A very common story when it comes to Piecing. Have you arranged for counseling? Your H needs IC as well as MC.

Thanks GWN and MrBond.

MrBond, when you say that this is a common Piecing story, which part of the story do you mean?

We have doing MC and I have been going to a women's suppport group for affair survivors. My H recognizes he needs IC, but has been slow moving on getting this done. I know why. He has a lot of childhood demons that he does not want to resurrect. He's never dealt with those issues, and I believe that it still affects him as an adult, although he tries to suppress the memories. I can't force him to do IC, only encourage him to do. Hopefully, he will see that in the end it is worth trudging through his painful past to get to better place. Not just for us, but for himself.

The part about him going back to the OW right after he says he wants to work it out with you. It's especially tempting when they work together. Sometimes I get chastised for recommending that the cheating spouse should find another job away from the OP. But why risk the temptation?

You went through what they call false starts. He's still questioning what he wants or can do. That's why equally important is to get professional counseling. You and especially him, need guidance on how to eliminate the problem rather than sweeping it under the rug.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

The part about him going back to the OW right after he says he wants to work it out with you. It's especially tempting when they work together. Sometimes I get chastised for recommending that the cheating spouse should find another job away from the OP. But why risk the temptation?

I don't know why you'd get chastised for that, Bond -- it's darned good advice. If you are a recovering alcoholic, do you keep liquor in the house? Do you take a job in a bar?

I have even seen it advocated that the reconciling couple MOVE TO A NEW CITY in order to ensure no-contact, and that they have every opportunity to try to heal their marriage, unencumbered. My wife and I didn't have to do that, but she DID have to quit her job (a boundary of mine), and she agreed. To do less is just letting the recovering pyromaniac play with the matches and kerosene.

Starsky

Bond/Starsky--

Your advice is good. If it's a temptation, why risk it?

Mr. Bond,

Thank you. Yes, false start for sure. I was clearly warned by many board members here (sandi and mlc come to mind, among others)to take things slow, set boundaries, and seek changes before letting him back in. However, I feel back into the gullible trap and let my emotions and love for him take over. I now see the wisdom in their advice. The second betrayal hurt me much more deeply.

We are working on improving our relationship, as what we had before is no longer acceptable to me. I want a better relationship than before the bomb drop, or I don't want it. I'm getting a lot better at speaking up rather than ignoring things that bother me. It's defintely a change. I'm a classic conflict avoider/denier. I'm getting there, slowly.

I hope my H seeks the IC he needs. I think he is starting to see the importance of it. We'll see if he takes the next step. He's so resistant to it, though. Don't know if this is a guy thing or just a product of his horrible childhood and not feeling comfortable talking about 'feelings.'

"I hope my H seeks the IC he needs. I think he is starting to see the importance of it. We'll see if he takes the next step. He's so resistant to it, though. "

Wrong. You don't "hope" he gets IC. He must get IC. Make it your boundary. If not, you will find yourself here again.

Since he's resistant to it, then don't take him back. He's still thinking about himself and what he feels comfortable with. He's not thinking about how much shame you had to go through in dealing with his selfish affair.

At what point does he stop being selfish and start thinking about YOUR NEEDS? Don't enable him.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"I hope my H seeks the IC he needs. I think he is starting to see the importance of it. We'll see if he takes the next step. He's so resistant to it, though. "

Wrong. You don't "hope" he gets IC. He must get IC. Make it your boundary. If not, you will find yourself here again.

Since he's resistant to it, then don't take him back. He's still thinking about himself and what he feels comfortable with. He's not thinking about how much shame you had to go through in dealing with his selfish affair.

At what point does he stop being selfish and start thinking about YOUR NEEDS? Don't enable him.

Agree 100%. ^^^

Starsky

H has agreed to go to IC. Has appointment in two weeks. I hope this helps!

Thanks Mr. Bond and Starsky. Yes, you are right. Once I made it clear to him that IC was not an option and a critical component to the recovery of our M, he agreed and actually followed through by making the appointment.

I'm not backing down on this issue. He needs IC if there are any hopes for the long-term survival of our M.

Very good!!!

Someday, just been reading your story and there was so much in there that parallels mine I felt I just had to write to say how brilliantly you have handled things. I unfortunately am a classic example of someone who forgot everything about DB as soon I thought things were moving in the right direction, moved back too soon and and now back in the position of a husband who 'knows' I'm not what he wants.

Please keep posting, and I wish you the very best.

Thanks, tinker. Dbing is so stuff. It's so easy to get discouraged and give up. Right now I've been feeling a little stuck. Yes, there has been progress. But, also I see that there is so much work to do. It seems daunting at times.

One of the things that I see needs to change is the openness and transparency in our marriage. H tends to keep things from me (good or bad). For example, he has a female friend who emailed him to "catch up". He emailed her that he would call her this week to update her on the latest happenings. I'm pretty sure their friendship has not been sexual, but I am still bothered by it. I have been waiting a couple of days to see if he does the right thing and tells me about the contact. If not, I will ask him about it (he knows I can access his email). I wish he would tell me and me open about it. I guess old habits die hard.

SD,

I'm glad you are holding firm on the transparency thing. Let us know what he does/says. Remember, it is HIS responsibility to make YOU feel safe again in the relationship, not the other way around!

Starsky

Some Day,

Did you ask your husband about the e-mail? What did he say?

Starsky

It's been a while! Things are going well. Hubby continues going to IC and it seems to be helping him very much. I feel like we are much closer. He is getting better at the transparency, openness thing- although sometimes he doesn't tell me things right away, but a few days later. But it is progress. As much as I feel like we are doing well in our marital recovery, I haven't let down my guard entirely. Besides Divorce Busting- I would like to recommend Dr. Harley's books: Surviving an Affair, His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters. We have been reading these books together and they have really helped us have meaningful communication and put steps in place to make our marriage better than it was pre H's affair.

Journaling....
Things continue to go well. My major issue now is fighting all the negative thoughts and visions in my head. In three days it will be the 1 year anniversary of me discovering H's affair. I keep getting flashbacks of that time. All the lies he told me. My utter despair. I can still see all the nauseating emails, including all of her naked pictures, and i want to puke. I wish I could just move past this, but I can't stop thinking about OW and this whole nightmare when my life unraveled. Hard to believe this was a year ago. Sometimes it feels like a long time ago, and other times like a fresh wound. How can i stop these negative thoughts?

Originally Posted By: Some Day

Journaling....
Things continue to go well. My major issue now is fighting all the negative thoughts and visions in my head. <snip> How can i stop these negative thoughts?

You might want to read "The Happiness Trap", I'm reading it right now and it has some awesome techniques for controlling your negative thoughts. In a nutshell it tells you not to follow the conventional wisdom of pushing bad thoughts aside because all that happens is they come back bigger and uglier over and over again. Instead recognize them as what they are- mental images that can do you no personal harm. One of the many techniques they suggest is when those bad thoughts come then give them a name, like "here comes my husband's love affair again" and then sing that name to a tune like Jingle Bells or something. Or if it's an image of say husband with OW, picture that image on a TV set that you control, you can flip the image, turn it backwards, etc. It takes practice, but eventually you see these things as thoughts and images that you can accept for what they are and choose not to react to. Good luck!

Journaling...

Progress continues...slow, but progress nontheless. I've been thinking less and less about the OW. Last night we were watching TV and H just starts caressing my neck and face out of the blue. If felt like heaven. He is not the affectionate type, so this was huge for me. Just trying to be the best me I can be. I've learned and grown so much from this experience and continue to do so. I'm becoming the woman only a fool would leave.

It's been a while. My healing continues. I get frequent flashbacks, but they quickly dissipate. So many positive things have happened. Our marriage continues to grow stronger day by day. We both strive not to take each other for granted and make sure we set aside time each week to date, talk, and engage in recreational activities. We have also been blessed and will be expecting our first child this summer. God is good!

Congratulations!

I hope your marriage continues to move forward in a positive direction!

Piecing continues. I have realized that having a successful marriage takes work - from both sides. It's easy to get comfortabnle and take short cuts. This is what got us the first time. We are both committed to not letting this happen again. Of course, having a child will complicate things. We'll have to continue making our marriage our top priority. I know this will be hard, but I think if we keep it top of mind, we can catch things early before they slip too far.

For those of you with children, how do you keep your marriage first, children second? How do you make time for each other? How do you balance it all?