Kalni, Lanzo, Starsky, DNO,
Thanks for the 2X4's. I need to think beyond penetration as was suggested. I get overly focused on that. There will be opportunities to move forward, it I take advantage of them. As Starsky suggests, it is time to move forward. The window of opportunity is open. As Kalni observed, I was expecting dancing to cure the M. I was staying in a comfort zone. DNO reminds me to think in DB terms, and to hear what my W is trying to communicate to me. At some point, if things aren't moving forward, a different pattern needs to be introduced, no matter how small. It's amazing how we can create obstacles for ourselves, and adopt an unhelpful perspective.
I think it's time to move from dancing friends to boyfriend and girlfriend. It's time to start looking like a couple, instead of two people hanging-out. I feel it for the first time maybe ever, or for a long time. It won't be acting, but will be a process of opening up.
CL
Your story here starts 8 years ago. How were the first 10 years? At one point you liked each other enough to get married. How was your physical relationship then?
Is this your first marriage? I do not recall ever hearing of one before.
You were married roughly at 33 years of age, how were your relationships with women before you were married?
I am trying to gain a little more understanding of where you came from and how you wound up here.
I look forward to hearing about the successes spurred on by your new attitude.
I am trying to gain a little more understanding of where you came from and how you wound up here.
I look forward to hearing about the successes spurred on by your new attitude.
Me 2! You know we're here for you, CL, and we only 2x4 those whom we care about.
I know this is scary stuff, but Life is what happens when we push thru our fears.
Starsky
My W and I had some conflict last night. She was rubbing my behind in bed, last night and I recoiled. I'm ambivalent about restarting sexual relations. I'm not sure if she had that in mind. Her feelings were hurt. I suppose if I'm going to agree to be in the marital bedroom, than I need to be open to physical intimacy.
I think that Matilda is right in that I should pursue some level of physical intimacy. Perhaps, cuddling in bed at night would be a good start. Light touches on the shoulder or arm, may be another good way to start. I have gotten her flowers in the past, but will have to think about that.
I did attend the salsa venue last night with my W. We had a wonderful time.
She initiated sex with me last night at 2AM. I agreed and tried to have the experience be more than intercourse. We'll see what kind of comments I get from her today.
Lanzo
DNO,
This is my first M. It's difficult writing about history in the space here. I'm getting myself back into a daily writing habit, to try and make sense of things. If I come up with any insights about my M, I'll share them. I'm trying to make sense of things myself. Your questions will require some exploration.
CL
Starsky,
Thanks for the continued support. It's very helpful. I do listen to what is written to me.
CL
Lanzo,
I'm impressed that you took the time to wade thru my postings and find some relevant to today.
CL
Breaking the ice isn't so easy after all. I did cuddle with my W one morning. I will continue to look for cuddle opportunities. Cuddling seems like the next step to me. I can see myself doing that.
CL
Screw "cuddling," CL. Intiate some intimacy. In my opinion, it would be WORSE for you if you try to initiate some sort of very passive contact, than if you did nothing at all, because your wife may think "See? That's all he's capable of; I need more than that."
I could be wrong, having SSM issues myself, so I'd love to hear other opinions. But I see the preferential order as:
1. Confidently initiate LMing;
2. Do nothing.
3. Meekly initiate "cuddling."
In any event, I'd like to see less introspection from you (which you're already very good at), and more ACTION.
Starsky
Screw "cuddling," CL. Intiate some intimacy. In my opinion, it would be WORSE for you if you try to initiate some sort of very passive contact, than if you did nothing at all, because your wife may think "See? That's all he's capable of; I need more than that."
Starsky
Starsky,
Cuddling is action. I don't see how you equate cuddling with meekness. It fits with DB strategy of doing something different and measuring results. I say let's do the cuddling, and see what happens, because I don't know what else to do. We don't know what effect it will have. If that's the open door I see, I say walk thru it and see where it takes me. I don't see how it could make things worse, and we can't predict what my W will think. I agree that one instance of cuddling is not a good start, though it does at least break the pattern of nothing.
I don't see me as being capable of intitiating confident ML at this time. If I attempt to do that, it will be done anxiously and passively, as you fear. I'd rather do an action I can do with intention and conviction.
I do appreciate your concern and advice. I don't think I can do precisely what your asking. I do agree that it's time for more action and less analyzing.
CL
It fits with DB strategy of doing something different and measuring results.
So...what were the results????
Hi CL,
It wasn’t too difficult to find those posts as I have a mental time line of your thread and as I have come to realise certain situation occur and reoccur without being properly addressed.
I agree with Starsky in that if you become overly reliant on “Cuddling” then you will get no where. Just as with the dancing you made some level of connection with W but it doesn’t get her to the point where she want to be, and that is regular ML.
Before you comment further you have answered my next point which is that you analyse things far too much and the actions are muted, or you will state what the action is but not follow through.
I do agree that it's time for more action and less analyzing.
This is an example and I’m sure if I checked back I could find previous uses of this comment.
Anyway CL your wife (although a PITA) is a burning cauldron of passion and if you don’t tap into that you may find yourself in one of the old patterns of behaviour where she allows someone else to.
Keep pressing on as she is still allowing you the opportunity to be the man.
Lanzo
I agree with Starsky in that if you become overly reliant on “Cuddling” then you will get no where. Just as with the dancing you made some level of connection with W but it doesn’t get her to the point where she want to be, and that is regular ML.
Keep pressing on as she is still allowing you the opportunity to be the man.
Lanzo
CL
DNO,
She was asleep when I cuddled her, so it had no influence on the R.
CL
I was complimented by my W for recent efforts in being a partner. I had done my homework in preparing for a dance my W wants to do (Hustle). When the teacher asked to show what I had prepared, I was ready.
My W thinks we're the best couple on the dance formation team. The feedback the instructor has for us it to be more relational in the dance (show the relational story), and to be more expressive in our movements. My W and I both need to work on this.
We were invited by our dance friends to join them at a karaoke bar. We had a great time, and I was persuaded to do my rendition of Frank Sinatra. My W enjoyed the female camraderie. She complimented me afterwards on my willingness to try something different and be a good sport about it.
The only conflict we had during the evening was when I lost my timing on the very small dance floor. My W is self-conscious and leaves little room for mistakes on my part. I decided to not let it ruin my evening. I danced with her very little for the rest of the evening, as I didn't want the pressure of being perfect. The other conflict was when she insisted that I perform a second karoake song. I initially resisted, but she was making an issue of it, so I surrendered.
On the way home, she made a comment about being reluctant to tell our new friends about our marital status. This has been an issue before. I asked her why, and she is under the impression that men won't ask her to dance if they know her marital status. I told her that I didn't think that played a significant role in the number of dances she had in an evening. I told her that I won't volunteer the information, but if asked, I'm going to tell our new friends that we're M. She said that would be fine (we don't wear rings).
CL
She was asleep when I cuddled her, so it had no influence on the R.
Come on! That deserves more than a 2x4. If a man cuddles his wife in the woods but she was asleep and didn't even know he did it, does it count? Is he chicken [censored]? What is it you fear you have to lose? With as much compassion and love (as one internet friend can have for another)...what is it you fear so much?
It really appears, from where I stand, you are at the end of your journey. Your wife is just waiting for you to make the marriage whole.
Seriously and compassionately, what is it you think can go wrong? What is it that makes you afraid or unwilling to finish this thing? Of all the situations here, yours seems the closest to resolution. Dr. Robert Glover sent something around recently entitled, "The Fear Of Success." Is that you? You have danced, and worked out, and self reflected. You are ready.
Honest, serious, compassionate question, "Why not make love to your wife?" Do you fear rejection? Do you fear performance issues? I don't want my tone to seem harsh but it seems you are at the finish line and are unwilling or unable to cross. Why?
My heart breaks for you. Best wishes.
...and I will try not to use the word compassionate so many times in my next post.
It really appears, from where I stand, you are at the end of your journey. Your wife is just waiting for you to make the marriage whole.
Honest, serious, compassionate question, "Why not make love to your wife?" Do you fear rejection? Do you fear performance issues?
CL
CL, you're dithering . . .
Hi CL
While you’re dithering (Starsky'swords not mine).
I thought you could check out this light hearted scene from the movie Bedazzled (2000) Brendan Frazer, Elizabeth Hurley, Hazel O’Connor, where Elliot (Brendan Frazer) is the overly sensitive guy and his girlfriend Alison (Hazel O’Connor) finds him just too sensitive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5WUUZbT2Sk Just a different perspecxtive for you to look at.
Lanzo
Lanzo,
I think I get it, and I have been working on it--creating a more masculine-feminine balance. It depends on the woman, but I think women want a masculine-feminine blend. I have been too imbalanced on the feminine side, all of my life. It's never too late to become what we should have been years ago. My W has commented on the increased tone in my body. She's slacked off on exercise, but I've gotten back on track since the car accident.
I also think that the men who are lacking in the "feminine" skills (listening, self-expression, artistic activity) are the ones who get D. I don't want to lose my softer skills, but balance them with strength, to increase my versatility.
CL
I'm reminded to be grateful for the teachers I've had and have in my life. A teacher I'm currently grateful for is my dance teacher. He's in his late 20's, and has a dancer's body--tone and trim. I admire him for his humor, lack of inhibition, discipline towards his craft, and work ethic.
I also admire the way he responds to his girlfriend/dance partner when she gives him a hard time (which is often). She will pick at him for talking too loud while he's teaching, or something similar. She is temperamental and prone to perfectionism, but he loves her and is tolerant of her moods. He is not a doormat and will give it back to her when she's being disrespectful. He moves on and doesn't appear to let it affect the rest of his day.
CL
Hi CL,
I do hope you have got it and I’d be more convinced if you simply responded “I think I get it, and I’m gonna get on with it”.
I also think that the men who are lacking in the "feminine" skills (listening, self-expression, artistic activity) are the ones who get D. I don't want to lose my softer skills, but balance them with strength, to increase my versatility.
At this point in time there's no need for you to justify your behaviour /personality we already know your strengths.
Anyway we’ve all been recently been talking about less talk more action, and so that we don’t get distracted from the job at hand (which the last post and a half could do) I’ll again quote our friend Starsky.
In any event, I'd like to see less introspection from you (which you're already very good at), and more ACTION.
Best wishes
Lanzo
Lanzo,
I also think that the men who are lacking in the "feminine" skills (listening, self-expression, artistic activity) are the ones who get D. I don't want to lose my softer skills, but balance them with strength, to increase my versatility.
CL
IMHO, the "perfect man" would have feminine skills
ON TOP of the masculine skills we women enjoy. Most of us tend to stick with a man that leads, makes us feel secure, has sex with us and makes us feel we are the feminine part of the equation.
K
IMHO, the "perfect man" would have feminine skills ON TOP of the masculine skills we women enjoy. Most of us tend to stick with a man that leads, makes us feel secure, has sex with us and makes us feel we are the feminine part of the equation.
K
This makes sense to me--not a 50/50 blend but maybe a 60/40 or 70/30 with the higher number being more masculine for the man and feminine for the female.
CL
This qualifies as more action. I've been insisting that my W stay after group classes once per week at the studio to practice our private lessons. She doesn't put up much resistance. It only takes 15-30 minutes to go thru our homework 3X each dance. This is my leadership. Our teacher has given us permission to use their space anytime they are there. Her complaint is that she wants to dance more at our social dances. One solution is for both of us to expand our repertoire, so she doesn't have to rely on others. This has worked out well. We've done this three weeks in a row. Practicing at home or the fitness center doesn't go as well.
CL
Yes, that's a great example of masculine leadership, CL. Now how can you take that same template, and apply it in the boudoir??
Starsky
Yes, that's a great example of masculine leadership, CL. Now how can you take that same template, and apply it in the boudoir ??
Thanks Starsky, I was trying to think of a polite way to say the same thing.
Hi CL,
Another nice update however I and most of you followers (many of whom don't post) would to see you taking steps towards( and maybe even dominating) the bedroom in a way your W would apprieciate.
Take care
Lanzo
Sorry guys, I dont see anything masculine in CL convincing his wife to...practice more.
CL, how is your relationship with your wife APART from the dancing part? Do you do anything else? Anything else that doesn't include dance instructors, dance partners shows, steps etc etc? I am just wondering...
K
Kalni,
My actions produced a positive outcome, whether it's masculine or not. There's no point in debating that issue.
My W and I eat out together 2-3X per week. We like to eat outside during the summer at restaurants. We both like ethnic food, so find restaurants that are casual in appearance, but still have great food, to keep it affordable. We were exercising together at our fitness center before the car accident. I'm trying to get her back on-track now that her wrist is better. We go to movies together usually 1-2X per month.
Dancing gives us a shared community, developing friendships, exercise, gets us out of the house, helps us grow as partners and individuals. In DB terms, don't fix what isn't broken, and do more of what seems to be working.
CL
Kalni,
My actions produced a positive outcome, whether it's masculine or not. There's no point in debating that issue.
My W and I eat out together 2-3X per week. We like to eat outside during the summer at restaurants. We both like ethnic food, so find restaurants that are casual in appearance, but still have great food, to keep it affordable. We were exercising together at our fitness center before the car accident. I'm trying to get her back on-track now that her wrist is better. We go to movies together usually 1-2X per month.
Dancing gives us a shared community, developing friendships, exercise, gets us out of the house, helps us grow as partners and individuals. In DB terms, don't fix what isn't broken, and do more of what seems to be working.
CL
CL, these are all great activities, and it's obvious that you and your wife have a good friendship. But unfortunately, all of this can also fall into "gay boyfriend" role if the other, "masculine" stuff isn't addressed, esp. in the bedroom.
I'm afraid that until you're willing to face this big elephant in the room, you're going to remain mostly STUCK. You have done a great job of managing (and improving) all of the other aspects of the relationship, but you're playing with fire and it's only going to be so long before your wife begins to (again) seek the missing passion elsewhere.
Starsky
But unfortunately, all of this can also fall into "gay boyfriend" role if the other, "masculine" stuff isn't addressed, esp. in the bedroom.
I hear the message about increasing physical intimacy, but what do you mean by other masculine stuff?
CL
I'm afraid that until you're willing to face this big elephant in the room, you're going to remain mostly STUCK. You have done a great job of managing (and improving) all of the other aspects of the relationship, but you're playing with fire and it's only going to be so long before your wife begins to (again) seek the missing passion elsewhere.
I get lulled into thinking things are fine because of the improvements I've made and in the R, and so I become complacent. As was suggested, I've yet to cross the finish line. I'm still pedaling and have one more hill to climb. It's time to shift gears again.
The masculine skills that need improvement are assertiveness and facing fear. I get motivated when I frame it as these areas I need to work on for myself and the R. When I frame it as I need to have sex with my W, fear and doubt creep in.
I think for now I need to Act As If I have these skills with my W. I'll look for opportunities to practice. I'll use the softer skills with her as-needed. I need to rebalance the portfolio to include more aggressive investments, expand the keyboard, or add a slider.
CL
How are things going, CL?
Starsky
My W seems to be in an emotional funk about being unemployed. She spends too much time in front of the television and computer. I encourage her to go with me to the fitness center, but she hasn't been there in weeks. I hope to get her back to our free weights class this week. People at the fitness center ask about her. She stopped going after the car accident, due to her wrist injury.
We performed our dance routine three times in front of an audience over the past week. I promised myself I would be brave and not let myself be nervous. It went well. It's the best performance we've done together. We bonded well with other couples afterwards at a downtown restaurant, after the event. She said it was a happy day. We've been invited next weekend to join several other couples for a river cruise.
I enjoy being with her when she's enjoying herself in a group setting. She enjoyed the dance formation. We get along well at movies and at restaurants. Being home with her is different as her energy is lacking. I keep mentally and physically active, with or without her.
CL
How are you making out CL?
I assuming you haven't written anything here in a while because you've been in bed with your wife for last week or so.
DNO,
That's right. I'll post when I cross that threshold or to respond to questions.
CL
We're planning a trip to Puerto Rico for December. I've agreed to allow other couples to join us if they want. I was out with my W till 2AM twice this weekend. We're taking separate dance lessons to work on our own skills and take some pressure off the partnership. We're showing consistent connection as a couple in the dance community.
I'm trying to relate to the imperfections of my W and R in a more open manner. I'm not perfect, but at least am trying more consistently.
I know the sexual/physical intimacy issue is unresolved.
CL
I know the sexual/physical intimacy issue is unresolved.
Are you taking steps (professional or personal) towards addressing these issues?
How is W handling the lack of intimacy ?
Lanzo
I don't think couples therapy is the route to go. We've tried that route at least twice, and it didn't resolve the issue. The focus was put on me. It made my W feel even more rejected. We weren't able to work as partners towards solving the problem. I think the sex therapist had the right idea. Begin with nonsexual touching to desensitize and move toward sexual intimacy. I had a hard time relaxing, and my W was insulted that we even had to go to a sex therapist. This was prior to the separation.
The difference now is that the friendship is stronger and there is more time spent together socially and recreationally and in ways that reflects her needs. I'm more flexible and emotionally mature, and less inhibited. The potential for a sexual/physical relationship is greater.
I don't think bringing in a professional is the way to start. I think I'm going to have to be the catalyst. I think I'm looking for some sort of sign on her part to move forward.
CL
Hi CL,
Something which has occurred to me and I don’t recall this question being asked of you, but do you have strong carnal desires towards your W, I mean do you ever think “Tonight she’s looking hot and I wouldn’t mind........” (sorry I could think of another way of asking the question).
It seems the potential is there for physical intimacy, but all the potential will amount to nothing if don’t have the burning desire, or drive to do anything about it.
I was prompted into that question as you said you were waiting for a sign from your wife, would like to expand a little more on what sort of sign you are looking for ?
Lanzo
I think part of the problem is I'm too much of a perfectionist (in some ways). In M, we get to see a person's imperfections. My attitude towards my W has been a problem in the past. I need to open up and become a more compassionate person. I need to allow myself to be intimate with imperfection (my interpretation of it).
I'm not sure I agree with your drive hypothesis. She usually has to prod me to go out dancing. Once I'm there, the music and the sights and sounds of the dance venue get me stimulated. I usually want to stay longer than my W. I seem to have the same style sexually. I have the same style with vacations. I have to be prodded to go, but am glad once I'm there.
The sign I'm looking for is that my W would be willing to work thru these issues together, and not take it personally if we don't hit the ground running.
CL
The sign I'm looking for is that my W would be willing to work thru these issues together, and not take it personally if we don't hit the ground running.
I am no genius but I'm thinkin' if you just told her this, it may go a long way toward solving your problem(s). Seriously
LOL
Thanks for that DNOY, I hesitated but my next post was going to be "CL and W just need to talk", but I didn't know how to articulate this.
Anyway CL therein lies your challenge, can you possibly talk to W and discuss how you can both work through these issues.
Lanzo
I agree. Cuddling is action. My ex told me that part of our "problem" was the lack of cuddling. Cuddling can be done in other places than bed. Like on the couch while watching TV. Or at the movies. Possibly in a poorly lit restaurant. Mix it up, then maybe this intimacy will lead to more confidence to initiate ML.
Give affection and you'll get it back.
I haven't read much of your posts, just this thread, but hope I helped.
TD
Hi Concerned, how are you doing? been awhile since you posted.
I still read the board from time to time and notice you haven't been around for a while.
I hope all is welll.
naej
DNO,
I don't see how we can move forward with sexual intimacy without talking first. Physical intimacy can move forward with nonsexual touching on my end.
CL
LOL
Anyway CL therein lies your challenge, can you possibly talk to W and discuss how you can both work through these issues.
Lanzo
I don't know. I would have to be willing to tolerate doubt and intense emotion on her end. It would be a charged discussion. I'm not sure how constructive it would be.
CL
Cuddling is action. Possibly in a poorly lit restaurant. Mix it up, then maybe this intimacy will lead to more confidence to initiate ML.
Give affection and you'll get it back.
TD
Thanks. I've been procrastinating on addressing physical intimacy with my W. Maybe I can start thinking about moving forward again. I was feeling so much pressure to address this issue, that I stopped posting for two months.
CL
Naej,
It's nice to know you still check on me from time to time. The physical intimacy issue is still lying dormant beneath the ground, but I still believe my situation is moving forward. My W has asked me to cuddle her twice this past week. I'm trying to be more accepting of her imperfections--smoking, lack of self-initiative, inappropriate comments in public, proacrastination with job hunting, poor sleep habits, poor eating habits, impatience and so on.
CL
Physical intimacy can move forward with nonsexual touching on my end.
Absolutely
My W has asked me to cuddle her twice this past week.
That's great! Maybe the next small step is you initiate the cuddling.
Hi CL, I am glad you are posting,I was getting worried about you.
I was happy to read your wife asked for a cuddle, but sad to read this
"I'm trying to be more accepting of her imperfections--smoking, lack of self-initiative, inappropriate comments in public, proacrastination with job hunting, poor sleep habits, poor eating habits, impatience and so on"
really makes me wonder why you are expending so much effort, you must love your wife, she must have good points,maybe focus a little on why you fell in love and married her,recapture those feelings and they will show through and maybe the "fake it til you make it" attitude will rekindle some passion.
Just my take on things but I know you have your own way of dealing with things.
I do really wish you well and am pleased you get support.Don't over think things tho,sometimes an action says so much more.
Take care.
"her imperfections--smoking, lack of self-initiative, inappropriate comments in public, proacrastination with job hunting, poor sleep habits, poor eating habits, impatience and so on."
Aren't these pretty harsh? I mean if you say they are her imperfections, then you see her as flawed. You're never going to see her as completely your W until you accept certain things about her. And again, that's not to say that some bad habits can't be changed. But then again it's up to her not you.
I was happy to read your wife asked for a cuddle, but sad to read this
"I'm trying to be more accepting of her imperfections--smoking, lack of self-initiative, inappropriate comments in public, proacrastination with job hunting, poor sleep habits, poor eating habits, impatience and so on"
really makes me wonder why you are expending so much effort, you must love your wife, she must have good points, and maybe the "fake it til you make it" attitude will rekindle some passion.
Don't over think things tho,sometimes an action says so much more.
Take care.
It's about talking and acting in ways that moves the R forward. I don't post as much because I do tend to overthink things to the detriment of action. I'll still post most weeks though, because it is helpful. If I don't put forth effort, than I'm afraid I'll backslide into being distant and pessimistic about the R.
CL
I mean if you say they are her imperfections, then you see her as flawed. You're never going to see her as completely your W until you accept certain things about her.
That would be true. Is it judgmental to see someone as flawed? I'm putting effort into getting better at acceptance. It's not easy and it's a daily struggle, but essential. It's one of the patterns that got me in trouble over and over in the past. I think I'm getting better at it.
We had a situation over the weekend where we were out late Saturday night at a pub with friends, and my W had too much to drink. She was slurring her speech. Our friends were caring enough to get us a cab home (we were out of town). I'm not going make it a issue, though I must admit there's some embarrassment.
If you're friends with us and we go out drinking, you may see my W intoxicated--friends would have to accept that.
CL
Is it judgmental to see someone as flawed?
Hey CL... personally, I do my best to always come from a position of positive intention and responsibility. For that reason, I do not believe that words have intention, rather the speaker does.
If by using the word flawed as a context to being human and to err is human, than so be it...
If our intention is to indicate someone has lesser value or is in some way less than human and therefore undeserving of our respect or admiration or love...
Everyone's got their own "flaws". It's just harder for everyone to see what their flaws are. I'm sure you're not picture perfect either. No one is.
Plus flaws are based off of one's personal acceptance. When you feel your W is a drunk, others might see her as willing to have a good time. It's a matter of perspective.
In any event, if you are concerned about your W's drinking, bring it up. But do so in a way that's "concerned" and not you thinking her behavior disgusts you. Because when you do that, you're doing it for yourself and not for her.
If our intention is to indicate someone has lesser value or is in some way less than human and therefore undeserving of our respect or admiration or love...
I have to keep an eye on this. I do believe my judgmental patterns led to R problems in the past and my own unhappiness. I have to keep working on acceptance of my W. I've made progress, but I still struggle with some of her patterns.
CL
[quote=MrBond
Plus flaws are based off of one's personal acceptance. When you feel your W is a drunk, others might see her as willing to have a good time. It's a matter of perspective.
[/quote]
I noticed that evening that two of the people in the group didn't think too much of it. The other person (who my W doesn't get along with, probably thought less of my W). I thought I handled it better than usual--no negative comments or nonverbals, took her home safely. I don't think of my W as a drunk, though I think she drinks too much.
CL
"I think she drinks too much. "
Then it's something you should discuss with her. "Honey, I care for you very much and I'm worried that you may be overdoing it."
If you're friends with us and we go out drinking, you may see my W intoxicated--friends would have to accept that.
Doesn't everyone from time to time? I think friends would accept that. When people go out drinking, being intoxicated is a probably and common outcome.
If it happens all the time, you might express concern for her health and safety.
I would be careful not to make what others think about her drinking you problem. Her drinking is her issue. If people are turned off by that, that is not about you. As long as she doesn't start trouble that you have to extricate her from, what others think about her drinking is between them and her.
I'm not scolding you but sort of seeing a pattern. Perhaps you are easily flustered or put out of sorts and maybe need to relax a bit. Not sure but it is food for thought.
Doesn't everyone from time to time? I think friends would accept that. When people go out drinking, being intoxicated is a probably and common outcome.
If it happens all the time, you might express concern for her health and safety.
I would be careful not to make what others think about her drinking you problem.
Perhaps you are easily flustered or put out of sorts and maybe need to relax a bit.
It makes sense to give folks latitiude if one is out at a pub drinking. It doesn't happen that often that she gets intoxicated in public. I do need to not worry about what people think of her. People are going to like or dislike her or me or us for reasons beyond my control. People do like her. I'm the one who is perceived as stiff and needs to relax
CL.
CL
We had a nice Thanksgiving. I drove my W to her sister's where her neices and nephews were home from college and her brother and family were in town from Georgia. She had a wonderful time and didn't want it to end. I entertained myself by playing board games with the teenagers. My W lights up when she is with her family.
CL
My W was complaining to me yesterday that we don't practice together enough. I felt myself inwardly getting defensive, but held my tongue. We've been going regularly lately to a weekly ballroom venue to practice all of our dances. She doesn't think I'm progressing quickly enough and was hinting that my bi-weekly private lessons are a waste of time. She also was complaining that I don't retain enough of the moves we learn in classes. I've been encouraging her to stay weekly after class at our studio, but she always seems to be in a hurry to get it over with. We used to practice at our fitness center after class, but she hasn't been going lately.
The solution is that I'm going to start asking her to practice more often at home. This should be helpful. I currently practice mostly on my own, and then try to do the steps when we dance in public. This works with the easier steps, but not the more difficult ones. I also have a hard time keeping up with all the material. I'll ask her when we get home from class, or evenings after work when there are no plans.
CL
My W lights up when she is with her family.
What do you think she might get from those interactions that makes her light up? Perhaps some observation of what is going on that makes her so happy may be useful...For example; I am from a very quiet family. We do, as opposed to talking. My wife, on the other hand is from a very boisterous Hispanic family, the yapping never ends. I have to make a conscious effort to make sure I hang out in the kitchen and talk (ad nauseum in my opinion). This is a love language for her. Without it she withers, or becomes hurt/angry and feels I don't care about her or the family. This is not natural and has been difficult to learn but it makes a big difference to her.
What your wife gets from her family interaction is likely very deeply rooted, powerful and soothing, so deeply that she doesn't even realize it. You however, recognize it makes her very happy. Perhaps if you can identify and make an effort to provide some of whatever it is she gets from those interactions, it may serve the relationship well.
What do you think she might get from those interactions that makes her light up? Perhaps some observation of what is going on that makes her so happy may be useful.
Perhaps if you can identify and make an effort to provide some of whatever it is she gets from those interactions, it may serve the relationship well.
She enjoys the feeling of belonging. The conversation is light, polite, and friendly. Her family is religious, family-oriented, and genuine. I find it a bit boring, though they are lovely people. My family is more intellectual, opinionated, and likes to argue politics and current events. I have to turn my family traits off around my W, and get those interests met elsewhere.
CL
I asked my W to practice dancing during the week. We had not practiced at home for some time. She doesn't want to practice at the studio after class, or at the fitness center, but she does want to practice. She wanted to see that the investment towards my private lessons was paying off. After the session, she noted that she had seen improvement. I don't mind accountability. It's better to practice the new material at home, so there is some polish when we're on a public dance floor.
We're off to Puerto Rico this week for ten days. It will be our first trip since September 2010. I think she would like to travel as part of a group. One dance couple in our group like to take dance cruises--I have a feeling we're going on one next year. We fussed a lot on our last trip. She failed to speak up about her needs and was upset with me when we didn't do what she wanted to do enough. I hope by adding a few extra days this trip, we can solve that problem.
CL
My W commented the other day how proud she is of my dancing. A year she would leave ballroom dances frustrated because I knew only a fraction of the dances. I now can dance in almost every style--Foxtrot, Waltz, Salsa/Mambo, Bolero, Samba, Cha Cha, Tango. Quickstep and Vienese Waltz are on the list. We also have a studio we have called home for two years, and continue to deepen friendships. Our R is much better than it was on our last trip over a year ago.
The struggle with Piecing for me is wrestling with the old patterns that got me in trouble in the first place. "Buying the devil a drink" means facing my doubts, fears, and bad habits head on with an attitude of friendliness.
CL
Glad to hear it, CL!
Starsky
My W and I are back from our ten days in Puerto Rico. My w is saying that this was our best trip together. What was different this time was my willingness to extend our trip to ten days instead of one week, her willingness to get up in the morning so we could start our day, and my willingness to try new things and listen to what she wanted to do. In the process, we discovered an island off the mainland that I think will be our home base on our next trip there.
It wasn't perfect. There were three different scenes where things didn't go well--going to a baseball game with my W who was drinking too much, my reading on the ferry before it left, and my wanting to be quiet on the ferry ride back. The evenings ended rough in those cases, but I made the decision the next day to get back on-track, and we did.
I'm off today before I return to work. I'll discuss the trip with my W, and see what further things she has to say.
CL
Well good for you man. That sounds pretty positive, certainly an improvement over previous Puerto Rico adventures. Keep plugging away.
My W was more involved than usual with my family this holiday. My siblings, parents, neices and nephews convened in my city this year. My W in the past has spent as little time as possible with my family--a brief dinner appearance. She stayed for dinner for three hours and the next day joined us for a walking tour of our city, including drinks afterwards at my brothers ( a total of three plus ten hours). I saw my mother bristle at some of her comments, but behaved herself. My W can be unintentionally provocative with her comments. My W behaved herself quite well, and enjoyed being with us.
My W teased me in front of the group about my casual landscaping standards. This went on for about ten minutes, with a recommendation that I look into the show Desperate Landscaping. I decided to let it roll, because she's probably right. It didn't seem mean-spirited. That was probably the most trying part of the day.
My W looked into the show's admission criteria. The houses are neglected beyond landscaping, which is not my case. We had a handyman do some work this fall.
CL
My W continues to sing my praises about progress made in the dancing arena. I did seven years ago tag along with her to Salsa venues and lessons so that we could have a shared hobby. She then used it as as escape and it created distance in the M. I moved into ballroom dancing on my own and it served as a GAL activity in 2009. She joined me when I found a new studio in 2009 and our dance R has evolved into a strong partnership. She tells me that a life dream of hers is to have a dance partner. I do it for me and she benefits. It is mine and our hobby.
She was so grateful last night that she let me pick a TV show, and she went outside to smoke. She always smokes in front of her computer. She hasn't smoked outside the home since the early days of our M.
CL
My W reluctantly agreed in mid-December to perform as part a formation group at a ballroom competition next week. We had performed with the group in October and didn't feel it was our best performance. As of this week there still had been no practice sessions scheduled, with ten days to go till the competition. My W asked if we could skip this one, making the point that not disappointing the group should not be our prime reason for doing this.
I listened to her and agreed. I also agreed to call the instructor and tell him we were pulling out. I thought I was respectful and articulate when I spoke to him. He didn't argue. I told my W that if I thought we were prepared, and she was being a scaredy-cat, I would push her to do it, but I knew she was right. We both had been conflicted about doing it, but would have performed if there had been adequate practice. The group will go forward without us on this one.
Some people are happy to perform, view it as recreation, and don't care if it's polished or not. My W and I only want to perform if it's a routine we can be proud of. We don't expect perfection from others, but we expect excellence from ourselves.
I want our performance experiences to be positive together. This was the right call. I'm glad my W spoke-up.
CL
My W bought me a generous dinner at a local fine dining establishment, for my birthday. I tried to give her another option, but she took it as that I didn't want to spend my birthday with her so I went.
She's enjoying herself more at our weekly dance venue, and has been more successful in connecting with men to dance.
She's been watching food and cooking channels and has been hinting about taking cooking classes. We visited an international market in town. She had a great time exploring all the different ethnic foods. I'll keep an eye out for inexpensive cooking classes to get us going.
The latest conflict has to do with the pets (2 cats and dog). My W sometimes has a low tolerance for the dog (barking, jumping on the bed when she's trying to sleep, barking outside when he wants us to play with him or to come inside). We keep his bed in the bedroom. He chews his bone on the bed, and leaves bone fragments on the bed which infuriates her. I'll plan on washing the sheets weekly, vacuuming the bed regularly, and keeping the pets out of the bedroom in the morning and keeping the door locked so she can have some peace.
I've resumed church attendance again at a local church five minutes from our home. We never seem to make it to Sunday yoga class, so I've decided to go to church. I haven't gone in over a year. I'm looking for an hour of contemplation and spiritual sustenance.
CL
We had some turbulence last night. My W woke me up at 3:30AM complaining about there not being enough food in the house, being stressed about money, not liking the house we live in, not feeling prepared for retirement, feeling envious of others who appear to have more money than us, not having children, and my lack of making an adequate income for the household. She started on the theme of how men should be able to support their wives. She is envious of a woman in her dance studio whose husband is a doctor. I let her vent, and tried to listen to what she was trying to say. It was more emotional than logical. I slept in the guest room that night.
She called me this afternoon and wants a debit card to the joint account (I think she already has one), so she can buy food as-needed. I don't have a problem with this, as long as we coordinate, so checks don't go into overdraft. I support her desire and intention to cook more often. We'll see if providing her with food to cook will move things forward for her and us.
CL
I don't know your whole situation CL, so bear with me as I give some thoughts to things others have said and you've said.
You do sound really sensitive. The ribbing about the landscaping, since it was not mean spirited, sounds like you had to make an effort not to be mad or hurt. You have to go with the flow more. YOU will be happier...things will be easier. She should not have to fear telling you something or teasing you
and you should not walk on egg shells either. Her "letting" you watch your tv show sounds weird to me. My h and I have some tastes in common but we work it out. We also tape shows...so one of us can watch "our own" show later.
No biggie...
We had some turbulence last night. My W woke me up at 3:30AM complaining about there not being enough food in the house, being stressed about money, not liking the house we live in, not feeling prepared for retirement, feeling envious of others who appear to have more money than us, not having children, and my lack of making an adequate income for the household. She started on the theme of how men should be able to support their wives.
I think of myself as a feminist. But I am like most women, who want our men to be able to provide for us, even if we have our own incomes. It makes us feel safer. One study found that-
Men say they want peace in the home (no nagging), and attraction to their wives.
Women say they want fidelity and security.
"Security" includes financial security...as well as feeling that if there was a noise at night, the h would defend his w...but also that if they had children, the child and she would be safe...from foreclosure, from starvation, etc..
I don't know how many of her fears are rational. Nor do I know if you want children but you two are in piecing...and that's a lot to add to the mix right now...
which of her complaints, if any, had validity in YOUR opinion?
She is envious of a woman in her dance studio whose husband is a doctor. I let her vent, and tried to listen to what she was trying to say. It was more emotional than logical. I slept in the guest room that night.
why? And does she work outside the home?
She called me this afternoon and wants a debit card to the joint account (I think she already has one), so she can buy food as-needed. I don't have a problem with this, as long as we coordinate, so checks don't go into overdraft. I support her desire and intention to cook more often. We'll see if providing her with food to cook will move things forward for her and us.
CL
uh, maybe you don't know this, but "allowing" her to have food as needed is a frickin BASIC....
Loosen those purse strings buddy....or I'm missing huge here.
I read your thread....you say a lot about her flaws...I mean, A LOT....
what are you working on in YOURSELF? B/C frankly, her flaws don't sound so wacky to me, though I'm not a smoker and 2nd hand smoke is a problem so I'd expect them to do it outside so I wouldn't have to experience it.
You sound uber repressed and judgemental. And not all that fun. Like you said, the friends at the pub like HER...you make light of your flaws as if they are merely traits, whereas her traits are "flaws" in your eyes.
Are you saying you won't have sex with her until she's more "perfect"? You are so obtuse and vague I cannot get at the real problem you have sexually.
You dont' find her attractive or what? Do you have performance issues that can benefit from medication? Sorry to be so blunt, but what exactly are you dancing around?
You've been married for 18 years....have sex, or decide not to..but it's a choice that has to be made by both.
Or the marriage itself has a major flaw.
Here's a tip. YOU will be happier when you accept others as they are. It really is a perception problem b/c ALL of us are flawed, even you...here's a post from the past that MIGHT help you
since you are now going to church...
Seeing our spouse through HIS eyes...
There comes a time in every marriage when each spouse sees the other in stark reality. No cover up, or make up. Just clarity, without the passion of the "new", and each sees the other totally naked, with all their flaws, weaknesses, qualities, mistakes, strengths, quirks, warts and all. And in that moment they make a choice.
They may reject their spouse as simply too flawed. No faults of weight or significance are allowed, maybe a few minor ones. Those spouses leave the m.
Others choose to stay, BUT only to make the other one cave in to their will, they nag, cajole, undermine, criticize, to "be proven RIGHT," vindicated…which actually never happens so they are never content, until one of them finally dies...
Some spouses choose to stay BUT they sigh or snicker for their whole lives, rolling their eyes in the long suffering manner of the martyrs they see themselves as. And then, there are others.
There are those who see the realities of their spouse, along with their own many faults in stark light too. Somehow they see it all and yet, still, they choose to stay and to love.
They choose to focus on the good, and to compliment it, and strongly favor it.
As for the bad, and the not so good, they learn to compensate, overlook, accept, or work around....they try hard reach their goal; i.e., to see their spouses as God sees them. Through His eyes...
No, I don't think this means we accept what is truly UNacceptable. God did not put us here to make us miserable. We are not here to be doormats.
But still, we have a goal and I think that the goal of marital love is to learn to see someone for all of who they really are, including their histories and pain, through His eyes.
That does not always mean one stays married to a spouse. But it sure helps. And I certainly don't think we'll be able to do this 24/7. Not by a long shot.
And while it may lead to fully bonding, heart mind body and soul, there will always be a separateness - for we are two individuals. We are not physically bonded like Siamese twins.
We're different. And that's okay.
25MLC,
I'm working on every imperfection you've identified except the sexual one. I lack courage and faith with that one. I've made progress with every imperfection you've identified over the years, so I think your impression of me is appoximate but not complete.
I am working on the ideal of unconditional love, but obviously fail daily. I'm hoping going to church will help me with this. I think I used to be the other spouses you described, which contributed to my marital problems.
CL
25MLC,
I'm working on every imperfection you've identified except the sexual one. I lack courage and faith with that one. I've made progress with every imperfection you've identified over the years, so I think your impression of me is appoximate but not complete.
I am working on the ideal of unconditional love, but obviously fail daily. I'm hoping going to church will help me with this. I think I used to be the other spouses you described, which contributed to my marital problems.
CL
Wow CL, you are still really truly vague...
so let me guess. Performance anxiety, & "sex issues", mixed in with not wanting to hurt her feelings or feel inadequate?
There are treatments available for this. Talk to your doctor, and get it done.
It's an essential element of marriage that only the marriage partner can fulfill (as opposed to social or intellectual needs)
and denying it to her is just NOT okay...
it's huge. Why or how church would help you with this issue, escapes me.
MLC,
I didn't realize I was coming across as judgmental. I'll need to take another look in the mirror with this. I have returned to church, because it calls me, and I miss it. I can't seek God completely on my own. I have been all of the misguided spouses you've described at one time, and still slip. The difference now is that I choose today to be the spouse who strives for love, even though I fail often and daily.
CL
MLC,
The problem isn't a physical one requiring medication. You are right that there are performance issues plus fears of failure. This has been a longstanding issue. I think early on it related to both of us being unhappy in the M. The separation created another layer of problems. The sleeping elsewhere created another layer of problems. Piecing has occured for the last two years. We tried sex therapy twice. My W was insulted that we had to see a therapist. I was the problem in her eyes. There's a long history of failure here.
Reinventing the M, and starting over is where we've been for the past two years. It truly is a piecing process.
CL
My W and I had a night out on the town with friends. My W managed to get intoxicated again, but I did my best to go with the flow. The couple my W and I went out with our similar to us, as one is a free spirit and the other not so much.
When we got home my W climbed into bed and wanted sex. I decided I better make it my best effort, or else squander the opportunity. I managed to have an erection, but could not get to the state of arousal needed. She laid there without any response. I could have used some help. I told her that I needed to keep trying to get more comfortable. She called me a coward. I held her, and she pushed me away.
She is talking to me this morning. I plan to buy some condoms, to be ready for the next time. There will need to be a next time and a time after that and so on. It's time to move thru this issue. I think after two years of Piecing, I think it can be different this time around.
CL
CL,
She needs for you to initiate. She's CRYING OUT for it, as many of us have tried to tell you. That's where her "coward" comment is coming from.
She's not looking to be "held." She's looking to be _______ 'd.
Starsky
Well said Starsky.
I can guarantee you, that there is nothing more non-erotic than a man who can not lead and devour a woman in bed.
You're wife isn't going to take any initiative, until you demonstrate what the initiative looks like.
You need to get rid of your own hang-ups and insecurities, take control of your masculine sexuality, own it, put it on, suit up in it - and then lovingly, kindly, but firmly and with purpose, DO HER.
And you must do her first! You told her you needed some help? Goodness me. Read up on the differences between men and women’s sexuality. I can promise you, after a long luxurious love play, after you’ve pleasured and loved her, she’s going to dying to return the intimacy.
I can guarantee you, that there is nothing more non-erotic than a man who can not lead and devour a woman in bed.
You need to get rid of your own hang-ups and insecurities, take control of your masculine sexuality, own it, put it on, suit up in it - and then lovingly, kindly, but firmly and with purpose, DO HER.
Starsky and Walking,
I'll have to think about how to approach this. This would be a 180 for me. I'm so much in my head around the sexual issue, which of course, is counterproductive.
I changed my thread title to CL Seeks God, because I think it represents the path of opening-up, flowing with life, connection, being in love with life and others, being pure and genuine, spontaneous, creative, attuned to our bodies, sensual. My hang-up with sex is one symptom of a larger problem. My focus on our marital problems and history is maybe looking in the wrong place. I need to once again look in the mirror, and make some changes, and stop blaming my wife.
CL
Starsky and Walking,
I'll have to think about how to approach this. This would be a 180 for me.
Yep. Which is why it's so strongly recommended, CL.
Less thread-title-changing, and more, um . . . how did Walking so delicately put it?
"DOING."Lose the fear.
Starsky
I lack the capability to be subtle so please consider this a 1x2 as opposed do a 2x4.
For more than a year we have been telling you, have sex with your wife and the majority of your problems will resolve themselves. This latest example was your wife being crushed because you won't have sex with her. All her behavior is her acting out because she feels unwanted. You won't take care of business and it's led to her seeking others to take care of business for you. You've researched around it, danced around it, now apparently are going to pray around it. You've avoided dealing head on with the main issue for the 4 years (or more) that I've been with you.
Woman and sex, sell corvettes, hair plugs, start wars, inspire poetry. Haven't you seen the TV commercial? It's the most powerful force on earth. When a guy won't make love to a woman, she comes absolutely undone. It's like Superman jumping off a roof only to learn his powers have abandoned him. It hurts.
No one is pulling harder for you than me, I promise. Really, though, tell us, that deep down you don't know you are avoiding the real issue at hand.
If you want to read a book. Have you read Passionate Marriage. I think that might really appeal to your analytical side and fairly directly address your situation.
You were SO close. With one decisive, manly act, you could have put your marriage back on track. Not solved everything. but I bet made 2 years dancing lessons worth of progress in 30 minutes.
I am going to be uber blunt here now. If you find yourself in a similar situation, why not give her oral sex? Honey, I'm not quite ready for intercourse yet but let me take care of you...or better yet just do it. At least she won't be wondering what's wrong with her. I could use some help, could sound to her like, "Your not appealing enough for me to get it up."
As always, good luck
I'm so much in my head around the sexual issue, which of course, is counterproductive.
You got it brother.
Completely counterproductive.
You talk a lot about masculine and feminine energy – but I think it’s all academic for you – certainly in your writing and musings but you equate those energies to activities you enjoy or things you like- not ENERGY and the feelings and capacity that energy creates in our own bodies and hearts.
CL do you get horney? Do you feel attracted to women? Is being more sexual something you want for yourself? Or is it just about the marriage?
This may be confronting for you, but you could consider looking for some good quality couples porn. Watch it alone at first for tips and strategies (and maybe even to get more comfortable or interested in sex and sexuality for yourself) and you could share it with your wife when you become comfortable with the act of sex. If it’s respectful and intimate – and there’s plenty of that stuff around - it may (probably will) help arouse her as a part of foreplay too.
I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to give your wife sexual pleasure and for her to know that you desire her for her to admire and remain committed to you and it might be helpful for you to do some pretty explicit research on that. I notice someone mentioned Passionate Marriage as a good start. It is a good book, but it’s pretty heavy going – there’s lots of other couples literature, videos and information around – and with respect, it sounds like you could brush up on your sexual education.
I'm so much in my head around the sexual issue, which of course, is counterproductive.
I need to once again look in the mirror, and make some changes, and stop blaming my wife.
I would also make the point, that to remain in a marriage, without respecting and investing in your obligations to all aspects of it, including your wife’s innate human right to intimacy within that covenant, seems selfish and very, very cold.
If you want to read a book. Have you read Passionate Marriage. I think that might really appeal to your analytical side and fairly directly address your situation.
That's a good point DNO - Passionate Marriage is heavy and I was thinking of it in terms of is it a book that you, CL, are ready for in terms of how you understand sexuality - but DNO is right - it's a good academic tomb and if that's what appeals to you it would be a great place to start.
Yes, read Passionate Marriage, Or Intimacy and Deisre or any articles of Schnarch you can get your hands on.
I respect every person has a different learning speed, different maturing speed, different pace. All this time I am wondering if your wife will stick around until you are ready to take the next step. There is no real Marriage without sex. As a woman, that has faced the non desire phase, I can tell you, it was verrrrrrry painful.
Kalni
I'm having a hard time doing that.
CL
I'm having a hard time doing that.
Why CL?
What is the worst thing that can happen if you man up and Love
your wife?
And what's with your screen name? Concerned? how about Open Listener, or Listening to my spirt or Masculine Man or Super Stud. Envision the man you want to be and make a step towards being that man every day.
CL - remake yourself. You are unhappy and angst ridden and I'm very surprised your wife has stuck around this long. She must be in a lot of pain - and you obviously are too.
Blessings. V
I'm having a hard time doing that.
CL
I know, and I do understand -- a longtime SSM here myself.
I suggest this: combine the two thoughts. DO pray, but instead of asking God to "improve my marriage," pray for Him to "help me lose my fear, and do what
I need to do to improve my marriage."
Subtle (yet important) difference.
Starsky
If you want to read a book. Have you read Passionate Marriage. I think that might really appeal to your analytical side and fairly directly address your situation.
You were SO close. With one decisive, manly act, you could have put your marriage back on track. Not solved everything. but I bet made 2 years dancing lessons worth of progress in 30 minutes.
I could use some help, could sound to her like, "Your not appealing enough for me to get it up."
As always, good luck
I need some ideas. A book is always a good next step for me. Someone commented that a book isn't self-help but allowing yourself to be helped by someone else. I'll order a copy of Passionate Marriage. I need some professional ideas. I haven't had much luck with therapy helping me or us.
CL
CL do you get horney? Do you feel attracted to women? Is being more sexual something you want for yourself? Or is it just about the marriage?
I would also make the point, that to remain in a marriage, without respecting and investing in your obligations to all aspects of it, including your wife’s innate human right to intimacy within that covenant, seems selfish and very, very cold.
I do get sexually aroused. I probably masturbate weekly (which I should stop). I enjoy looking at attractive women. I would like to be more sexual.
Ouch. You're right.
CL
Yes, read Passionate Marriage, Or Intimacy and Deisre or any articles of Schnarch you can get your hands on.
I respect every person has a different learning speed, different maturing speed, different pace. All this time I am wondering if your wife will stick around until you are ready to take the next step.
My next step will be to read Passionate Marriage. I like the progress we've made the past two years, but we can't stay in sexual limbo. We'll drift back into problems, that will end the M, and undo the progress made.
CL
What is the worst thing that can happen if you man up and Love
your wife?
Envision the man you want to be and make a step towards being that man every day.
I'm so focused on avoiding failure that I'm not moving forward.
CL
Why should you stop masturbating weekly? Unless your trying to save up your bullets for the real thing. I do so much masturbating it's a wonder I don't have tennis elbow AND I have sex with my wife. Nothing wrong with it. It hurts no one.
Someone commented that a book isn't self-help but allowing yourself to be helped by someone else.
So? Take the help where you find it. Life is hard and short. From what I know of you, this book will be perfect for you.
Go get 'em tiger. You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO close.
Go get 'em tiger. You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO close.
Thanks. I've been hard on myself this week for still having this problem, so it helps to have encouragement. I'm looking forward to the book.
CL
Wow CL,
A lot has happened in the last week.
I was going to wade in as well, but as most of my thoughts have already been summerised in the last few posts I will hold back. However, as there is a lot of direct adult talk going on I thought I would highlight a couple of things.
When we got home my W climbed into bed and wanted sex. I decided I better make it my best effort, or else squander the opportunity. I managed to have an erection, but could not get to the state of arousal needed.
I know you said you don’t need medical help but I’m sure the little blue pill could have maintained your erection long enough, even if it was only for your W’s benefit.
She's not looking to be "held." She's looking to be _______ 'd.
I’m sure Starsky and I were telling you that this was the case back in September 2011
changed my thread title to CL Seeks God,
I’m sure Starsky and I told you back in September 2011,that you do too much of this .(Too much introspective and not enough action), Just checked, Starsky mentions in again recently.
CL do you get horney? Do you feel attracted to women? Is being more sexual something you want for yourself? Or is it just about the marriage?
I’m sure I asked you a similar question back in September 2011 but got I a vague answer, however I'm glad to see you are up a bit more open with your answers now (as seen next).
I do get sexually aroused. I probably masturbate weekly (which I should stop). I enjoy looking at attractive women. I would like to be more sexual.
If you want to read a book. Have you read Passionate Marriage. I think that might really appeal to your analytical side and fairly directly address your situation.
I’m going to go against the crowd on this one, I think you’ve done plenty of reading, now is the time to follow up on your actions. Small or large you need to be doing not reading.
There will need to be a next time and a time after that and so on.
This needs to be dictated by you with you in control, you W is crying out for you to take control.
That was going to be it from me but after reading this
The latest conflict has to do with the pets (2 cats and dog). My W sometimes has a low tolerance for the dog (barking, jumping on the bed when she's trying to sleep, barking outside when he wants us to play with him or to come inside). We keep his bed in the bedroom. He chews his bone on the bed, and leaves bone fragments on the bed which infuriates her. I'll plan on washing the sheets weekly, vacuuming the bed regularly, and keeping the pets out of the bedroom in the morning and keeping the door locked so she can have some peace.
I now know why your W can be so hard on you.
But as always CL I will say keep pressing on as you have made some small strides forward.
Lanzo
I'm having a hard time doing that.
CL
I know, and I do understand -- a longtime SSM here myself.
I suggest this: combine the two thoughts. DO pray, but instead of asking God to "improve my marriage," pray for Him to "help me lose my fear, and do what
I need to do to improve my marriage."
Subtle (yet important) difference.
Starsky
good advice