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Posted By: pinhead When does "piecing" start? - 09/02/10 06:47 PM
when your spouse decides to stay and goes to MC with you? When?
Posted By: Kalni Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/02/10 08:12 PM
For me the real piecing started after I found out about his affair and we both decided we would try to make the M work. That's when the tough times started...
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/02/10 08:29 PM
Thanks Kalni,

It's hard to know where I am since my wife isn't leaving, is going to MC, and feels she's trying to work on the R. I have so many doubts that it's easy to get confused.
Posted By: Kalni Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/02/10 08:36 PM
pinhead,
my H agreed to MC while separated to reconcile, and still had the A going on because he "couldnt break it off with her". Ohh and he said I was crazy to the Councelor cause "he never had an affair". So going to MC was no turning point for us.

I am sorry you are confused. Maybe at some point and I strongly suggest that, you should clarify things. Most LBs in similar sitches are afraid a confrontation will ruin their chances, I believe fear is the worst advisor in this case.
I havent read your story but at some point, you must be very clear about what you need (if you havent done that). A lukewarm reconcilliation (which I've experienced for a year) is horrible and will do bigger damage in the long run,
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/02/10 08:55 PM
Clarity is something I pray for daily wink

I guess it's not so much clarity as building trust in our R. Trust that my W is committed, trust that I have the strength to work through our issues despite how long it might take. Trust that staying together is a realistic ending.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/02/10 09:22 PM
I think I knew we were piecing when the D was dropped, she said, "I want to do the work." We talked about the issues and what each of us needed to feel loved, respected and appreciated. She moved home and we had a second honeymoon. Still there were minefields to navigate for about a year then this past year has been incredible.

When you both can articulate what you want in a clear and unemotional voice is a good sign.
Posted By: Faith2010 Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/05/10 02:10 AM
Originally Posted By: Kalni
my H agreed to MC while separated to reconcile, and still had the A going on because he "couldn't break it off with her". Ohh and he said I was crazy to the Counselor cause "he never had an affair". So going to MC was no turning point for us.


Sounds exactly like what happened in my M. We started MC while separated and unbeknownst to me, H was still having an A. It wasn't until he FINALLY admitted he slept with the OW that the "piecing" started. Of course, it was also at that time he completely cut the OW out of his life.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/05/10 11:48 PM
Coach, when did she realize that she still loved you? Was that before or after she moved back in?
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/06/10 02:53 AM
ILYBINILWY - means she's not attracted to you

So she loved me but wasn't attracted to me. My goal was to make her attracted to me.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/06/10 03:24 PM
Maybe Greek can jump in, but what were the biggest changes that you undertook to be more attractive to her? Am I right to assume that she didn't move back home until she found you more attractive?
Posted By: sunshine2day Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/07/10 02:29 PM
That's what I am wondering. I "made the moves" on my H and he seemed to enjoy it. I am still wondering how attracted he is to me. Not a good feeling at all.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/07/10 04:14 PM
Yeah, no more initiating for me. Physical stuff will come when she is ready for it.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/20/10 12:43 AM
Piecing requires so much patience it's unbelievable. I think the next year of piecing will be harder than the last three months before we really started. This is a day in, day out struggle to enjoy the good, forgive the bad, and move forward, step by step. And it doesn't help when you really feel like you've lost out on the last several years of your life, and you're in a rush to make up for that lost time.

As Sandi told me (what seems a long time ago), patience can be learned...
Posted By: Dr LOve Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/20/10 01:04 AM
Pin...

From what I can tell... "Piecing starts" when the "problem" is exposed and you work on your marriage both in yourself and with your spouse... How long does piecing last? I truly believe it last as long as you are married.
I think part of the problem with a marriage that got all of us here in the first place was taking marriage for granted. It will always be a "work in progress" from now on. I learn something new all of the time both with my wife and with me.
It's ok to make mistakes as long as you learn by them.
Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result...
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/20/10 02:39 AM
Originally Posted By: Dr LOve
How long does piecing last? I truly believe it last as long as you are married.

Ain't that the truth. Hi Pinhead. Really happy for you, to see you and your W are piecing.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/20/10 06:29 PM
It's surprising when you can make a change in your relationship dynamics. On Friday, my wife had planned on going out with some coworkers for drinks after work since a colleague was moving on to another job. I came home a bit early to watch our Ds, said goodbye to W and spent the night having fun with my daughters.

Turns out my W had a "predrink" with one of her girlfriends at 3pm, then picked up our kids from school. Strike one.

Next, while she never said when she'd be home, she implied that it would be around 7-8. She comes home, with no phone call, at 11:20pm. Strike two.

When she comes in, I'm watching a movie, and can smell booze before she even sits next to me. After a few minutes talking to her, it's pretty apparent that she's hammered, and that she drove herself home. Strike three.

Now, I'm no teetotaler. I like a drink when it's a good time, but I'm death on drunk driving. So normally this would have resulted in a huge blowout, either right then, or in the morning. But we went to bed, talked for a while, and I realized it wouldn't be a good time to bring it up.

When we woke up, I didn't wait very long to tell her that I was upset about last night; picking up our girls after drinking, staying out later than planned without a phone call, and driving drunk. I was calm, just expressed my concerns, and she listened without getting defensive. She apologized, didn't make any excuses, and it was over. No hard feelings, I didn't feel angry, she didn't feel controlled.

Kind of how I always envisioned a healthy relationship would deal with a problem.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/21/10 01:38 AM
Ugh. W is out of town for a week visiting a GF and then her sister. I'm Mr. Mom, (which is great) but I realize how much I miss her. It's good that I've been so busy; hopefully the week will pass quickly.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/21/10 01:45 AM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Ugh. W is out of town for a week visiting a GF and then her sister. I'm Mr. Mom, (which is great) but I realize how much I miss her. It's good that I've been so busy; hopefully the week will pass quickly.

So, what GAL activities do you have planned for the week pinhead? (Other than taking care of the munchkins of course)
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/21/10 01:54 AM
I have company coming over for dinner tomorrow, finishing an article that's due, working out and training for a 5K. Then the weekend to catch up on chores. Exciting stuff! Actually I like all that. It's just that W and I have been spending all our nights together watching movies etc for the last couple of weeks, and I've grown accustomed to that. Need to remember that when she comes home; need to keep some nights to myself whenever possible.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/22/10 05:39 PM
Dinner turned out great. Always fun to experiment. Even my daughters liked it.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/24/10 12:33 AM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Dinner turned out great. Always fun to experiment. Even my daughters liked it.

smile Good for you! I was wondering how you were making out this week. Glad to hear you're keeping busy. What did you make your daughters for dinner?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/24/10 02:55 PM
Oh, they ate the same chicken dish, plus my fussy 8 year old even ate the roasted potatoes.

It's been a lonely week though. After the girls go to bed, it's me and a book or a movie. Same thing I'd be doing if the W was here, but all the same, it made me realize how much I appreciate her company.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/25/10 02:43 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Oh, they ate the same chicken dish, plus my fussy 8 year old even ate the roasted potatoes.

smile This sounds nice.

Originally Posted By: pinhead
It's been a lonely week though. After the girls go to bed, it's me and a book or a movie. Same thing I'd be doing if the W was here, but all the same, it made me realize how much I appreciate her company.

This too. Really happy to hear you and your W are reconnecting pinhead.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/25/10 03:35 PM
Yeah, baby steps. I'm probably the most impatient and impulsive person on the boards, so that's something I need to change/control since it's so counterproductive to healing.

She told me she'll be home for dinner tomorrow when she drives back, so I'll have to whip up some spaghetti for a good family dinner.

Never thought I'd feel bad about missing her, but it makes me feel like I'm not as detached as I should be.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/25/10 04:23 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Never thought I'd feel bad about missing her, but it makes me feel like I'm not as detached as I should be.

Hey I'm glad to hear your W will be home tomorrow Pinhead. Yumm... spaghetti. Don't forget some nice fresh parmesan. And hey, no worries on missing her. I think missing your spouse a little when they're gone is healthy and normal. It shows that you care about her. smile
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/27/10 01:25 PM
Ugh. Wife came home yesterday, a bit early too. We hugged when she came in the door, and then she went to greet our daughters. After that everything was fine, but definitely not a lot of affection directed towards me.

Maybe it's because she was tired (8 hour drive), but getting any type of affection from her is still pretty rare. She's nice, thanks me for things I do, but still seems like she's waiting for a switch to flip inside her. And waiting sucks.

After dinner, we talked about her trip, and then put the girls to bed. Then we watched a couple of shows together before I went to bed with a book. I didn't want to initiate anything, even the hug she gave me was more me than her. I keep waiting for her to do anything, and that leads to sleepless nights.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/27/10 01:33 PM
Quote:
not a lot of affection directed towards me.

Maybe it's because she was tired (8 hour drive)
.

Yeah, nothing more romantic that driving 8 hours, dealing with trucks, inattentive drivers, folks tail-gating you, and so on.

Really gets that love motor running.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/27/10 02:06 PM
Yeah, I realized that. I guess that with her being gone for a week, I had unrealistic expectations.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/27/10 07:28 PM
Just read a post by Greek about it taking 1 month for each year of marriage to heal your relationship. That really puts things in perspective. So I have ten more months to go, aiming for Independence Day...
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 12:59 PM
Well, it's back to the same old sitch where she's a great roommate, but no affection. From the time I got home to bedtime, she spent most of her time on her laptop or iPad, even while cooking and eating dinner. Hard to have a conversation when she's glued to a screen.

Turns out that she was upset that while she was gone, I didn't tell her much about what the girls were doing. She called every night to say goodnight, but I didn't talk too much; she had gone on the trip to figure out what she wanted in our relationship, so I was trying to give her space.

Of course, the trip did nothing to clear away her fog. I don't know why the hell we're trying to piece it back together. I'm getting nothing I need out of this relationship...
Posted By: dday101798 Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 01:03 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
I'm getting nothing I need out of this relationship...


And go back to the paragraph you wrote before this, read, think, re-read, and re-think.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 01:11 PM
I understand that, but this isn't an isolated event where she shuts down. It's the story of our marriage, and breaking out of this pattern doesn't seem to be something we can get past right now.

It's as if she's putting in the minimum effort required to keep things from getting out of control.

Patience patience patience...
Posted By: dday101798 Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 01:21 PM
Yes, patience is key.

I'm not overly familiar with your situation, however, there are only but a few reasons that all of us got here in the first place.

In reading that one post, I get the impression your W is wanting more of the family man type from you?

If this is true, and it's not being done, then yah, her response effort won't be as hig either.

Another thing I notice here, not only is patience ever so important, but having expectations is the root of all failure in this 'business'.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 01:31 PM
Oh, I'm Mr. Mom with our daughters. I'm probably more involved with them than W is. I get them up and dressed, feed them breakfast, then drop them off at school. W picks them up, and when I get home, I usually cook dinner for the family. I do most of the shopping, laundry, etc. Plus any chores/repairs around the house.

I know expectations are dangerous, but so is just stumbling along. Life is short.

It's as if she's fine with me as long as there's no deep emotional talks etc, or physical affection involved. Then she can't handle it.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 01:48 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
I understand that, but this isn't an isolated event where she shuts down. It's the story of our marriage, and breaking out of this pattern doesn't seem to be something we can get past right now.

Pinhead, I don't know about a lot of things like affairs and stuff, but I do know about shut-down and distance. That was all my marriage & relationship was for years (M-13; T-18) So I know - it's insulting and hurtful and takes a lot of really hard work to change your roll in those communication patterns like you just had. I'm going to babble here... sorry, but this is so important. You guys are just starting to break through ... don't give up!!! Okay, so patterns... what have I learned about patterns...

Tell me - what pattern did you see in this:

Originally Posted By: pinhead
Turns out that she was upset that while she was gone, I didn't tell her much about what the girls were doing. She called every night to say goodnight, but I didn't talk too much; she had gone on the trip to figure out what she wanted in our relationship, so I was trying to give her space.

Here's the pattern I see:

You: I know you had great intentions in not wanting to 'talk too much' and 'give her space'. But I'd bet she felt that come across as you being withdrawn and not wanting to share. Which likely reinforced her position of not sharing what she wanted/needed to hear.

Your W: doesn't sound like she shared with you what she WANTED to hear when she was talking with you. This is pretty typical of women around my age. However, if we don't tell our Hs, they don't know, so they don't share. So her position reinforced you not sharing.

Keep trying pinhead - don't give up. Communication patterns - are just BEHAVIORAL, so CAN be changed. AND you can start changing them by changing your half of it! That's what I've been doing for the last 7 months and it's hard as h&ll but it's slowly working. Have you read any of Harriet Lerner's work? She deals a lot with these communication patterns and how to break out of them. Don't give up pinhead!

PS - by the way, She called YOU. And EVERY night at that. I'd have given my left boob for my H to have called me every night while he was away on week-long trips for most of our M. But your W WANTED to talk with you... every day! Wow! See I look at that and think 'that's progress!' Don't give up NOW! I know I know the DB stuff says to give them space. But I think at this point you have to start reaching through all that. Don't give up pinhead.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 01:49 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead

It's as if she's fine with me as long as there's no deep emotional talks etc, or physical affection involved. Then she can't handle it.

Good god. We've had the same marriage just flipped. Oh pinhead... don't give up...
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:04 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
[quote=pinhead]
PS - by the way, She called YOU. And EVERY night at that. I'd have given my left boob for my H to have called me every night while he was away on week-long trips for most of our M. But your W WANTED to talk with you... every day!


Not really. She wanted to talk to our daughters, and find out from me what our daughters had done during the day.

Then again, if I had talked to her more, I might have found that she wanted to know how I was doing. But she can't just come out and ask me that...
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:05 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Originally Posted By: pinhead

It's as if she's fine with me as long as there's no deep emotional talks etc, or physical affection involved. Then she can't handle it.

Good god. We've had the same marriage just flipped. Oh pinhead... don't give up...


Her money quote last night was "Why can't we just have a normal conversation?" It's as if she'd just like to pretend nothing is wrong between us. I can't live that way, at least not for long.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:08 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
But she can't just come out and ask me that...

I know I know... it must be really frustrating for you guys. I'm sure my H would have said just the same thing. It took me ages just to learn that I WASN'T asking my H for what I wanted. And then ages again after that to learn HOW to.

I know you think she just wanted to talk to and about your daughters, but I'm very very skeptical. I think she wants to talk to you too, she just doesn't know how because she's as entrenched in those patterns as you are.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:12 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead

Her money quote last night was "Why can't we just have a normal conversation?"

What was this in reply to?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:13 PM
Why can't she just come out and say it? Say what she feels for me? Say what she's really thinking instead of surface fluff. Take a leap of faith for chrissake.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:16 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Why can't she just come out and say it? Say what she feels for me? Say what she's really thinking instead of surface fluff. Take a leap of faith for chrissake.

I'm sad for you that she doesn't share that stuff with you more. I'm there too and it hurts. I didn't start keeping up with your thread more regularly until you were in piecing so forgive if you've been through this, but in your M have both of you held back how you feel for one another (verbally I mean) or is it more her?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:17 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Originally Posted By: pinhead

Her money quote last night was "Why can't we just have a normal conversation?"

What was this in reply to?


It came up when she was saying that she was upset because I hadn't spoken to her much when she was gone.

I think you're right about how me giving her space is taken the wrong way. She sees it as me withdrawing, shutting down. And that probably makes her feel uncomfortable opening up to me. But even when I'm totally involved, she doesn't like to open up.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:18 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Why can't she just come out and say it? Say what she feels for me? Say what she's really thinking instead of surface fluff. Take a leap of faith for chrissake.

I'm sad for you that she doesn't share that stuff with you more. I'm there too and it hurts. I didn't start keeping up with your thread more regularly until you were in piecing so forgive if you've been through this, but in your M have both of you held back how you feel for one another (verbally I mean) or is it more her?


We've both kept a lot of our hurt and feelings to ourselves. That's how we got here; and it's a tough pattern to break.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:24 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
We've both kept a lot of our hurt and feelings to ourselves. That's how we got here; and it's a tough pattern to break.

OMG. Ok this is getting freaky. Yes, that was our M to a 'T'. And yes, it's a tough pattern to break. But I believe in my heart those patterns can be broken.

Well some of the stuff I've learned is that everything that people say and do is either to protect them from pain, or get them more love. People who don't share their feelings are doing to to protect themselves. It's like this warped, unhealthy 'boundary' of sorts. They use it because they don't know how to create healthy ones.

Since you've been piecing, how many of your own feelings for her, and hurts have you been sharing with her?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:30 PM
I guess I haven't been very open with my feelings for her. I wrote a romantic card for her on her trip that she thanked me for, but she also said it reminded her (in a bad way) of when I used to do that type of thing before we dated.

I don't say "I love you" or anything like that, probably a hold over from the DB stuff. And probably because I know she can't return it.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:30 PM
Quote:
Her money quote last night was "Why can't we just have a normal conversation?" It's as if she'd just like to pretend nothing is wrong between us. I can't live that way, at least not for long.


Your wife has been putting up with this for how long?

Do you know what a normal conversation is? Your wife has given you big hints.

Your wife wants to know all about you (intomesee). Work, family, hobbies, friends, goals, plans, travel, fun, kids, ideas, stories, exercise, health, spiritual, what you are learning - get it? You want affection then give her what she needs. Let her in to your life. It works.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:31 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead

But even when I'm totally involved, she doesn't like to open up.

And that's the sh*tter of it isn't it. It's going to take time, pinhead. That's why I'm so afraid of you giving up. I remember a number of months back, I had something really crappy I had to deal with (old stuff...had to go the courthouse for something and it just made me lose it when I finally got home). So anyways, I blurted it all out to my H and bawled and bawled. This was big for me. In 18 years I'd NEVER cried like that in front of him about ANYTHING, let alone this issue. So anyways my H's reaction amazed me. He TOTALLY 'got involved' held me, talked to me dried my tears... everything.

And you know what I did? I kept trying to pull away. Probably 5 times. Opening up to him like that was so scary, so uncomfortable that I'm the one who couldn't cope.

And it wasn't uncomfortable because I wasn't getting what I needed. It was because it was SO against my pattern... And I've been the one all along complaining that HE couldn't open up to ME.

So anyways, moral of the story is DON'T minimize how SCARY it can be for someone to open up. It could take you guys a lot of time, but don't pass up the opportunity... if you do you'll never know how great it could be...
Posted By: dday101798 Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:36 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Originally Posted By: pinhead
We've both kept a lot of our hurt and feelings to ourselves. That's how we got here; and it's a tough pattern to break.


Well some of the stuff I've learned is that everything that people say and do is either to protect them from pain, or get them more love. People who don't share their feelings are doing to to protect themselves. It's like this warped, unhealthy 'boundary' of sorts. They use it because they don't know how to create healthy ones.


And it's an easy pattern to fall back into, lol, see my thread.

Like I said before, there's only one of a few root problems that got us all here, but in the midst of it all, loss of effective communication is in 100% of every situation on here, period.

That's how my peicing with (x)W began. We got IT ALL out. ALL the pain, ALL the hurt, ALL the fears. Then we both vowed to never keep things inside and not voice how we feel.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:38 PM
I agree with that, and we've both been trying to do a much better job of talking when something is bugging us. That's a major improvement I think.

But she's just weary of any relationship talks. Says they make her feel like she's responsible for my feelings, and that all the pressure is on her. In her words, she's "defective."
Posted By: dday101798 Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:47 PM
If I caught in someone's response correctly, there was an A involved on her part?

If so, she is a frightened puppy, believe me. You have to make her comfortable.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:49 PM
No, from what I know, there wasn't an affair. Maybe the beginnings of an EA, but nothing concrete there.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:50 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
But she's just weary of any relationship talks. Says they make her feel like she's responsible for my feelings, and that all the pressure is on her. In her words, she's "defective."

What do you mean by 'relationship talks' though? Do you mean that if you just tell her how much you love her, that makes her feel pressured? Or do you mean a 'big' talk where both of you are communicating?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:52 PM
Her ears must be burning; she just called me.

She was in a great mood, bubbly. I asked about work, she chattered for about 5 min, then we talked about birthday plans for D5, about vacation time for the holidays, just a "normal conversation."

It's nice to hear her happy like that.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:55 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Originally Posted By: pinhead
But she's just weary of any relationship talks. Says they make her feel like she's responsible for my feelings, and that all the pressure is on her. In her words, she's "defective."

What do you mean by 'relationship talks' though? Do you mean that if you just tell her how much you love her, that makes her feel pressured? Or do you mean a 'big' talk where both of you are communicating?


I mean a big talk about us, where we both are talking. At the end of our phone call a few minutes ago, I told her that I'm trying hard not to shutdown and withdraw, and she said she understood it was hard.

Then I told her I loved her, and she replied "I know," then started crying. I haven't told her that for over two months. I don't know why she started to cry; because she feels pressured, because she's happy I said it? Who knows.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 02:59 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
I told her that I'm trying hard not to shutdown and withdraw, and she said she understood it was hard.

Then I told her I loved her, and she replied "I know," then started crying. I haven't told her that for over two months. I don't know why she started to cry; because she feels pressured, because she's happy I said it? Who knows.


Good for you for telling her that. I'd suspect she was happy, but I'm curious... why didn't you just ask her why she was crying!!???
Posted By: dday101798 Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 03:08 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Maybe the beginnings of an EA,


In my experience, EA's are often more destructive that a one night PA.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 03:15 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Originally Posted By: pinhead
I told her that I'm trying hard not to shutdown and withdraw, and she said she understood it was hard.

Then I told her I loved her, and she replied "I know," then started crying. I haven't told her that for over two months. I don't know why she started to cry; because she feels pressured, because she's happy I said it? Who knows.


Good for you for telling her that. I'd suspect she was happy, but I'm curious... why didn't you just ask her why she was crying!!???


She was at work, and couldn't talk much. She said she had to go.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 03:16 PM
Originally Posted By: dday101798
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Maybe the beginnings of an EA,


In my experience, EA's are often more destructive that a one night PA.


That's what I've read. I think it depends on your perspective; an EA might be harder for the spouse involved to cope with, but a PA seems harder for the LBS to accept.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 03:16 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
She was at work, and couldn't talk much. She said she had to go.

And, so are you going to ask her after work?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 03:32 PM
Yeah, I'll either ask her when I get home, or if we talk before then. She's under a huge amount of stress at work, and our financial sitch makes her worry about it a lot.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 03:53 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Yeah, I'll either ask her when I get home, or if we talk before then. She's under a huge amount of stress at work, and our financial sitch makes her worry about it a lot.

Glad to hear it. Keep the convo short, if you've found that the big R talks make her skittish. My H gets the same way so I've found little bits at a time get you farther than too much at once. And keep opening up, Pinhead, I know it's hard but you're doing great hanging in there. Keep us posted as to how you guys make out tonight.
Posted By: dday101798 Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 04:12 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Keep us posted as to how you guys make out tonight.


make'n out helps lighten the mood too...........wink

lol, yeah, I'm in one of my moods.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 04:55 PM
Originally Posted By: dday101798
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Keep us posted as to how you guys make out tonight.


make'n out helps lighten the mood too...........wink

lol, yeah, I'm in one of my moods.

blush Oh! Heeheehee that's not quite where I was going with that... but you know it, dday! Thanks for the chuckle! smile
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 05:10 PM
Originally Posted By: dday101798
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Keep us posted as to how you guys make out tonight.


make'n out helps lighten the mood too...........wink

lol, yeah, I'm in one of my moods.


I almost went there... wink
Posted By: NotCrackingUp Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/28/10 10:52 PM

Hello Pinhead
I've just been reading the latest on your situation. As the others say, keep the faith and don't give up on things. I'd give an arm and a leg to be where you are now, but I can identify with the frustration and walking on eggs feelings.

I realize that my H and I kept 3/4 of our iffy feelings to ourselves, afraid to rock the boat or hurt each other, make each other suffer. The result was an affair and a volcanic eruption of bad feelings fermented inside. Even now, I'm not initiating contact, I sometimes wonder if he actually wants to "talk" but can't, wants me to get the ball rolling. Time will tell. But if your W rings you (even if ostensibly to talk practicalities), that means she's taking a step she could avoid if she didn't want contact or a talk with you. Keep on keeping on. I really hope it works out for you. She's a lucky woman - I know others with far less patience.
NCU
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 10:10 AM
Well, she was pretty business like when I got home. Not in the best of moods, and wasn't very talkative. She was upset about our budget, which she's taken over responsibility for. She tried to blame some of the excessive spending on me, but her partying the last couple of weeks and her trip to see her sister are the biggest reasons we didn't hit our goals. Later that night I asked her how I could help, and she seemed a bit more relaxed about it.

While we were cleaning up the dishes from dinner, I asked her why she was crying on the phone. She just answered "Because..." and didn't say anything else.

She seemed more concerned throughout the night about getting to watch all the TV shows she had recorded. Didn't talk much about work or anything. I read a book once the girls were tucked in bed.

I had a good IC session yesterday. No obvious stuff, except the C said that I'm more relaxed in one on one sessions. I'm obviously nervous when it's a joint MC session; he said I need to be "me" like I was in the individual. Not so easy, but I'll try tomorrow.

He said that W doesn't seem to have much joy about her; I totally agreed. She's been like this for years, not much "fun" or spark in her. And now with all the stress of our relationship, it's even more pronounced. He also said he wished we had come to him 4-5 years earlier. So I don't know if he's worried about our outcome like I am.

Part of me needs to detach from her mood swings and not let her wall get to me. When I get to thinking/feeling like this, I almost feel as if I don't care anymore; knowing that a year or two like this with no improvement would be a waste. I want to be happy, I want her to be happy. Not too much to ask.
Posted By: Dr LOve Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 01:51 PM
Hey Pin,

I can relate to your sitch totaly... Seems like we are married to the same woman sometimes.
Now if you have read my sitch you know I am still pretty screwed up BUT.....

After three years of this Cr@p.. Things are better...W is coming along with her low self esteem issues but I think the biggest improvement was in ME... When I read "Well, she was pretty business like when I got home. Not in the best of moods, and wasn't very talkative" YEP...Heck my W can change her mood with in minutes...but what changed was MY reaction to her mood swings... I try to let them go.... NOT let them affect mine.
A little secret that I try to remember and use…..
When your W is in one of her moods… In your mind… think back to a time when you both did something “silly” or some really fun thing you did…maybe even something “intimate” that will put a smile on your face…..
Changes your attitude instantly I will guarantee it…..and with a smile on your face… I bet your W will smile back…..If she asks “what ya smiling about?”… Just say “oh nothing”….
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 02:20 PM
Dr,

Yeah, that's one thing that keeps me going. I don't understand how someone can be such a sourpuss all the time. I know our sitch has too much pressure, but she (and I) both need to just lighten up. Easy to say, hard to do.

It's hard not to see it as a reflection on me, since she is much more fun-loving at work. Lately I really feel life is too short for this [censored]. It's so easy to focus on what's always been missing, and what you're still missing.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 02:29 PM
Quote:
Do you know what a normal conversation is? Your wife has given you big hints.

Your wife wants to know all about you (intomesee). Work, family, hobbies, friends, goals, plans, travel, fun, kids, ideas, stories, exercise, health, spiritual, what you are learning - get it? You want affection then give her what she needs. Let her in to your life. It works.





Quote:
While we were cleaning up the dishes from dinner, I asked her why she was crying on the phone. She just answered "Because..."


And you let it slide because........???????? CB

What worked for you? Do you understand why?

Here's a clue:
Quote:
He said that W doesn't seem to have much joy about her; I totally agreed. She's been like this for years, not much "fun" or spark in her.



Cue Jeopardy theme...................................











Answer - Your wife can't stand herself, she can't understand why you are interested in her. When you dumped her she felt attracted to you. She doesn't view herself as valuable and can't be attracted to a man who is interested in a "joyless" woman. Once you weren't interested it made you attractive because you now became valuable. Catnip.

Give her what she wants and needs.


Quote:
since she is much more fun-loving at work.


At work she is the pursuer. Cats love to hunt. The solution is right in front of you.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 02:51 PM
Coach,

I get what you're saying, but I didn't know how to force a more substantial answer from her. She was so pissed off throughout the night about our finances that it was all we could do to be civil to each other.

And you're right about her self-esteem. She wants attention, but at the same time, doesn't trust it from me because I KNOW her. When she gets attention from other people, it feels better, Weird psychology.

And as usual, I'm clueless to the solution right in front of me. Play hard to get? Don't give her attention? Start doing my own thing? Try to think of fun things to do together?

When she was complaining about me not talking to her much when she was on her trip, she said I withdraw when things get tough. So I wanted to avoid doing that. But, it did make her give me more attention...

Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 03:20 PM
She wants intimacy with me, to know about my life, my interests, my desires, dreams. But if she's glued to a TV or totally shut down, it's tough to start talking about those things. And if it's one of her favorite shows, she gets really upset if it's interrupted.

She told me while making dinner about all her plans for the night, mostly revolving around which shows she wanted to watch and when. She also told me when she would be using her computer, etc. so that we wouldn't have another night where she was glued to the iPad etc. Nice of her to try at least, but I'm married to a TV zombie.

Not to be crass, but when I was in my twenties, if someone I knew acted like she does, I'd tell her she needs to get laid.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 03:40 PM
Quote:
I'd tell her she needs to get laid.



That's your job.

What worked last time?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 03:46 PM
Once I dumped her. The other time we got drunk...

So everytime I want some action, I need to dump her. Check. wink
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 03:55 PM
Quote:
She wants intimacy with me, to know about my life, my interests, my desires, dreams. But if she's glued to a TV or totally shut down, it's tough to start talking about those things. And if it's one of her favorite shows, she gets really upset if it's interrupted.

She told me while making dinner about all her plans for the night, mostly revolving around which shows she wanted to watch and when. She also told me when she would be using her computer, etc. so that we wouldn't have another night where she was glued to the iPad etc. Nice of her to try at least, but I'm married to a TV zombie.


She's bored.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 04:03 PM
So if I become Mr. Excitement to her, all her self-esteem issues will go away. Huh. No, I'll still be married to someone with low self-worth, and our problems will just be kicked down the road.

I see how it'll work to get our relationship moving, but we'll eventually have more problems if she can't grow.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 04:12 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
So if I become Mr. Excitement to her, all her self-esteem issues will go away. Huh. No, I'll still be married to someone with low self-worth, and our problems will just be kicked down the road.

I see how it'll work to get our relationship moving, but we'll eventually have more problems if she can't grow.


Didn't say be Mr Excitement be Mr Attractive (huge difference). Learn what women want. Your anger is clouding your judgement.


Quote:
I'll still be married to someone with low self-worth


this is what your wife feels about you. Because you put up with her CB. To change her feelings what do you do?
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 04:13 PM
Quote:
Huh. No, I'll still be married to someone with low self-worth,


Break the cycle. Appreciate the moment, and don't let the past color your expectations or script your end of your interactions with her. Just deal with things as they happen. Your anger is rooted in the expectation that this will not change.

Plan a weekend getaway, find something oddball to do. Shake things up by doing something unexpected.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 04:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Originally Posted By: pinhead
So if I become Mr. Excitement to her, all her self-esteem issues will go away. Huh. No, I'll still be married to someone with low self-worth, and our problems will just be kicked down the road.

I see how it'll work to get our relationship moving, but we'll eventually have more problems if she can't grow.


Didn't say be Mr Excitement be Mr Attractive (huge difference). Learn what women want. Your anger is clouding your judgement.


Quote:
I'll still be married to someone with low self-worth


this is what your wife feels about you. Because you put up with her CB. To change her feelings what do you do?


I'm not angry, I'm resigned to things. Is her not telling me why she was crying really CB? I am standing up for myself, and when I do, she almost always apologizes and changes her behaviour.

Oh duh, you were saying she feels that I have low self-worth.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 05:23 PM
Ok, I've had some lunch and time to think about this more.

Here's how I see it, give me 2x4s as necessary.

My wife has low self-esteem, and because of that, I'm suspect (unattractive) because I want to be with her, despite her "unworthiness." Check. Got it, understand completely.

So to make myself attractive I need to call her out on CB so she respects me. Check, makes perfect sense, no one likes a doormat.

But at the end of the day, she'll be showing me respect cuz I won't stand for CB. Yet since I still want to be with her, the self-esteem stuff will still prevent her from being attracted to me since only a loser would be attracted to her. Conflicting forces.

I can stand up for myself, that's not a problem. But if she's feeling that she's "defective" and unworthy of love, then we're back to what is really the biggest cause of our marital problems.

Throughout our marriage, I thought that if I tried harder, gave her more attention then she'd feel better about herself. Had the complete opposite effect, until I just quit. Shut myself down like she was.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 05:45 PM
Pinhead, I think you're trying to pinpoint one of you as the cause of marital problems. I don't think that works well ... my H told me that I caused all our problems because of my low self esteem. It just made me withdraw. Marriage problems exist in the space between the people - where and how they interact.

I think the key is standing up for yourself (even when she's reacting negatively because of her low self esteem) without withdrawing or shutting down.
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 05:47 PM
PS "I thought that if I tried harder, gave her more attention then she'd feel better about herself."

Pinhead, I'm sorry, you can't fix that for her. Attention does help, it does. But it doesn't fix it... she's got to do that on her own... I know I did.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 05:49 PM
Quote:
she's got to do that on her own... I know I did.


Hmmmmmmm???? confused

When did FMV do it?
Posted By: FindingMyVoice Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach

Hmmmmmmm???? confused
When did FMV do it?

Well, I guess I thought I was a lot farther along than when I started all this. My apologies. I guess I mispoke.
Posted By: MakingProgress Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:12 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead

I can stand up for myself, that's not a problem. But if she's feeling that she's "defective" and unworthy of love, then we're back to what is really the biggest cause of our marital problems.



What will make her stop feeling "defective" and how can you help facilitate that?
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:14 PM
Quote:
What will make her stop feeling "defective" and how can you help facilitate that?


Probably not ruminating on feeling defective or escaping into TV programming or internet nonsense.

Getting up and doing something NOW is usually a first-step to self-esteem building.

Ever try to make a horse drink?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:31 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
PS "I thought that if I tried harder, gave her more attention then she'd feel better about herself."

Pinhead, I'm sorry, you can't fix that for her. Attention does help, it does. But it doesn't fix it... she's got to do that on her own... I know I did.


That's my entire point. I can't fix her. But some big problems in our relationship, maybe dealbreaker problems will persist until she feels better about herself.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:34 PM
Originally Posted By: FindingMyVoice
Pinhead, I think you're trying to pinpoint one of you as the cause of marital problems. I don't think that works well ... my H told me that I caused all our problems because of my low self esteem. It just made me withdraw. Marriage problems exist in the space between the people - where and how they interact.

I think the key is standing up for yourself (even when she's reacting negatively because of her low self esteem) without withdrawing or shutting down.


I'm not blaming her for everything. I definitely didn't react or cope with stuff very well in our marriage. And I still make a lot of those mistakes.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:36 PM
Originally Posted By: MakingProgress
Originally Posted By: pinhead

I can stand up for myself, that's not a problem. But if she's feeling that she's "defective" and unworthy of love, then we're back to what is really the biggest cause of our marital problems.



What will make her stop feeling "defective" and how can you help facilitate that?


I unsuccessfully tried to help facilitate for 11 years to no avail.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:37 PM
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
What will make her stop feeling "defective" and how can you help facilitate that?


Probably not ruminating on feeling defective or escaping into TV programming or internet nonsense.

Getting up and doing something NOW is usually a first-step to self-esteem building.

Ever try to make a horse drink?


This ^
Posted By: MakingProgress Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:38 PM
Wait a minute, PH. If she were asked what she thinks PH thinks about her, what would she say?
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:43 PM
Quote:
Wait a minute, PH. If she were asked what she thinks PH thinks about her, what would she say?


She would describe how she feels.

" I know he loves me but I just don't have any of that feeling for him. I want more."
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:48 PM
What she thinks I think, or what she feels about me? Coach answered the second.

She thinks I don't accept her feelings as valid; that I love her, but I think that she should feel differently towards me. That I want to change her instead of accepting how she feels.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:55 PM
Quote:
That I want to change her instead of accepting how she feels.



And how does she feel................................??????

It's real. Make no mistake. The sooner you agree with her feelings the better. Once you do that her thinking changes.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 06:58 PM
Quote:
I think that she should feel differently towards me


That's probably the stumbling block. That is probably what keeps you two stuck and on script. You're both working off feelings here: her wanting to feel love, you wanting to feel loved.

Ehhh just deal with whatever is happening (pleasant or otherwise) without projecting your expectations into every interaction, deal with her like you would a new person in your life without all of that negative history, and try to have some fun too smile

You have any guy buddies? Go do something different. Somehow you need to shift your focus back to yourself and being positive.
Posted By: MakingProgress Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:05 PM
PH,

Getting back to her self-esteem, your W could think that you think she is fiscally irresponsible, a bad parent, etc. Maybe, if you're like most of us, you did harbor such feelings and either let her know it or she "felt" it. If so, those are areas in which you can help her with her self esteem. Not suggesting fawning, etc. Just saying that if there are areas in which you contributed to her self-esteem problems, you might want to address that.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:13 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
That I want to change her instead of accepting how she feels.



And how does she feel................................??????

It's real. Make no mistake. The sooner you agree with her feelings the better. Once you do that her thinking changes.



I know her feelings are real. I'm not stupid. If they weren't real, if she felt attracted to me, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I accept her feelings. Do I want them to change? Of course! All of us here would like our spouses to love them again.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:14 PM
Originally Posted By: MakingProgress
PH,

Getting back to her self-esteem, your W could think that you think she is fiscally irresponsible, a bad parent, etc. Maybe, if you're like most of us, you did harbor such feelings and either let her know it or she "felt" it. If so, those are areas in which you can help her with her self esteem. Not suggesting fawning, etc. Just saying that if there are areas in which you contributed to her self-esteem problems, you might want to address that.


I try to support her, reinforce good behavior, etc. Some of this stems from her mother, whom she feels never loved her. Can't really argue with her on that, since I wasn't around the two of them very much; I just try to listen and validate.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:19 PM
Quote:
Do I want them to change? Of course! All of us here would like our spouses to love them again.


then give her what she wants, agree with her, validate her feelings, take all the pressure off her, let her pursue you

You act like the WAS. My point earlier about when FMV was when did she start making the healthy changes for herself? AFTER THE BOMB.

Pinhead you are making huge progress. I can read it in your posts and post to others. Once you let go of the outcome it becomes so easy to just focus on doing what you need to do for you. Making goals keeps you focused. Plan for parallel outcomes. Decide to arrive a better man regardless of the outcome. You can handle it.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:20 PM
Quote:
Can't really argue with her on that, since I wasn't around the two of them very much;


And why would you want to argue with her about her feelings even if you knew better?

Her feelings are real (whether or not her view on the past is accurate).
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:23 PM
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
Can't really argue with her on that, since I wasn't around the two of them very much;


And why would you want to argue with her about her feelings even if you knew better?

Her feelings are real (whether or not her view on the past is accurate).


I didn't argue with her at all about her mom. The one thing I've learned in life is that you never disagree with a woman about their mother... wink
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:28 PM
Quote:
didn't argue with her at all about her mom. The one thing I've learned in life is that you never disagree with a woman about their mother...


OK, so you know you can't change her feelings about her mother. Her history with her mother colors their interactions, so I'm guessing they are stressful interactions sometimes?

Now, do you think her mother ever agrees with her about these feelings, or does she argue with her about them?

Just trying to show how this works generally. Even strained family relationships can heal if the dynamic shifts and one of the parties deviates from the script.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
Do I want them to change? Of course! All of us here would like our spouses to love them again.


then give her what she wants, agree with her, validate her feelings, take all the pressure off her, let her pursue you

You act like the WAS. My point earlier about when FMV was when did she start making the healthy changes for herself? AFTER THE BOMB.

Pinhead you are making huge progress. I can read it in your posts and post to others. Once you let go of the outcome it becomes so easy to just focus on doing what you need to do for you. Making goals keeps you focused. Plan for parallel outcomes. Decide to arrive a better man regardless of the outcome. You can handle it.


I know this, it's just that what works in piecing seems like it should be different than getting her to work on the relationship. That's naive I guess. It's hard to know what's okay when she's a WAW but detrimental when she's here.

And in a way, I am the WAS right now. I'm torn between giving up and moving on to the next chapter of my life without her, or sucking it up and making it work though I have big reservations about our relationship.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:33 PM
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals
Quote:
didn't argue with her at all about her mom. The one thing I've learned in life is that you never disagree with a woman about their mother...


OK, so you know you can't change her feelings about her mother. Her history with her mother colors their interactions, so I'm guessing they are stressful interactions sometimes?

Now, do you think her mother ever agrees with her about these feelings, or does she argue with her about them?

Just trying to show how this works generally. Even strained family relationships can heal if the dynamic shifts and one of the parties deviates from the script.


Her mother has Alzheimer's, and is in a home. So there's not going to be any resolution for my W there. But I get your point about arguing vs. validation.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:41 PM
You are not in piecing. Your wife isn't all in. Common mistake. If you do piecing right you will go thru a "second honeymoon" stage. cool

Quote:
I am the WAS right now.


Then let your actions show her.


Four stages I've read here quoted from DB coaches:

- get rid of negative feelings

- become friends again

- rekindle the romance

- re-commit to the marriage
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
You are not in piecing. Your wife isn't all in. Common mistake. If you do piecing right you will go thru a "second honeymoon" stage. cool

Quote:
I am the WAS right now.


Then let your actions show her.


Four stages I've read here quoted from DB coaches:

- get rid of negative feelings

- become friends again

- rekindle the romance

- re-commit to the marriage


I knew this was coming; though I didn't want to admit it was true. And I have those four stages printed out and on my cubicle wall. We're both still stuck at the first phase, and you can't skip a step!

So I have to either leave or get her to leave. Or make her think I'm done. Sigh... back to where I was a month ago.
Posted By: TimeHeals Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:52 PM
Quote:
If you do piecing right you will go thru a "second honeymoon" stage


Phew... glad to hear that. Had a very good, very Honeymoon like time in Hot Springs.

I have been wanting things to go a bit slower though, so I haven't let her move back in just yet. Not sure about that move.

Sorry for the hijack.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:52 PM
Quote:
So I have to either leave or get her to leave. Sigh... back to where I was a month ago.


No that is not the first step.

1- Get rid of negative feelings.

How do you change feelings?
Posted By: MakingProgress Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:53 PM
Validate.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 07:54 PM
Quote:
Phew... glad to hear that. Had a very good, very Honeymoon like time in Hot Springs.


You have been holding out on us, huh?

Good for you.

Cheers
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
So I have to either leave or get her to leave. Sigh... back to where I was a month ago.


No that is not the first step.

1- Get rid of negative feelings.

How do you change feelings?


Change her thinking.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:09 PM
Originally Posted By: pinhead
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
So I have to either leave or get her to leave. Sigh... back to where I was a month ago.


No that is not the first step.

1- Get rid of negative feelings.

How do you change feelings?


Change her thinking.


Yep, how do you do that?
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:15 PM
By accepting her feelings, by building intimacy between us, by standing up for myself.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:22 PM
Quote:
By accepting her feelings, by building intimacy between us, by standing up for myself.


Yes. What else? Remember you are trying to get the "in-love feeling" back. Think catnip and intomesee.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
By accepting her feelings, by building intimacy between us, by standing up for myself.


Yes. What else? Remember you are trying to get the "in-love feeling" back. Think catnip and intomesee.


Yeah, I almost spelled it out as intomesee! Catnip is tough though, as I'm an open book to her. So getting her to pursue me is tough as she's already afraid I'll withdraw from her.
Posted By: NotCrackingUp Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:34 PM

Good evening Pinhead

Some thoughts on what you've written, although I'm bumping along in the fog myself.
You say a few things that stick out when I read your post. The first is that your W spent the evening catching up on TV shows she'd had recorded while away.That might be the norm for her, or in your house or even in America, but it sounds very much to me like someone trying to escape uncomfortable thoughts. I've seen my husband do it, I've done it myself. Float away onto a silly island of TV drama to forget the bothers of work or the parts of one's own reality one doesn't like. My husband used to do it, I was hurt by it but didn't say anything, just went away with a book, like you. Now I realize I should have gently called him up on it, it cut me out and was a means of escape for him from things he wasn't saying. You've already mentioned her spending the evening on her mobile phone another time. Piecing apart, maybe (?) you should get up and go out these times, saying :"If all I'm to see of you is your profile in front of a screen, I'm off out to get some conversation. See you." You seem to be doing what I 've done myself so often, waiting for her reactions, putting yourself on hold to see what she'll do.Do something unexpected?

You also say that you're noticeably more relaxed in individual counselling, that your C tells you to "be yourself" more in MC sesions with your W. You also say she's no fun at home or at MC, although liked for her good humour at work. So she and you have some kind of side you only show to each other in each other's presence, a stilted side. That rings a bell. I've been told that my good humour is appreciated at work, I know I'm missed where I used to work and have already made friends where I started in September, but my H found me "boring", "unbearable", smothering", "absent&, you name it at home. My H is also a sensitive, just and caring person with a great sense of fun. But became a critical, difficult,bullying person here. I think couples (and maybe siblings, parents and kids...) can find themselves on a sort of "tramline", where the only direction is ahead along a certain narrow track. It's a way of functioning that builds up, articulated by habits, patterns of energy and tiredness, tics of language that we adopt and don't even notice anymore, after a while. We become prisoners of these habits, can't see them taking on alife of their own and don't know how to step out of them. Your W and you sem to have got into a way of functioning where there's no more lightness between you, everything's pregnant with possible hurt feelings. I know that's the way it is now in my own case. Sometimes feel it would take a big shock (the house burning down or something) to wake us out of this scripted sketch we fall into when we're together. I mean, it's worse now, but it was there before the bomb. Roles we played that didn't reflect the real us.

Is there something you can do for her to break the routine? Take her a picnic at lunchbreak as a surprise, change 'round the furniture in the living-room, cut your hair really differently or change your style of dress? Anything to brek patterns? I've begun to try this, although my H doesn't live here anymore. He's surprised, reacts with puzzlement and even some interest. Sometimes.
Chin up.
NCU
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:43 PM
Yeah, I've noticed that since we started counseling, I've cut back on some of my GAL. I don't get to the gym as much, just run when I first get home. I'm trying to get ready for a 1/2 marathon in the spring, so weights aren't as important for me now. But it means I'm more available to her...

She really loves her TV shows; she'll choose them at night or in the early evening over our daughters, and obviously over me. Not sure if I should call this out as CB or not, but when I called her out on her computer use, she changed immediately.
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:44 PM
Quote:
as I'm an open book to her.


Really she knows all about DB, the work you have been doing, you starting a novel, your goals, stories etc.....

Do that then add some mystery - tension.


Quote:
So getting her to pursue me is tough as she's already afraid I'll withdraw from her.


Mind reading. She'll be on you like white on rice on paper plate in a snowstorm when you do it right.

So think about the withdraw, keep a little tension on your connection with her. She wants the tension (excitement) flirt, tease then pull back.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach

Yes. What else? Remember you are trying to get the "in-love feeling" back. Think catnip and intomesee.


Do I let her know I'm having doubts about what I want? About us working out? I've tried to be (and honestly was up until about this week) confident about our ability to work things out.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 08:47 PM
Emotionally I'm an open book to her. She can tell when I'm upset, when I'm faking things. But you're right, she has no insight intomesee...
Posted By: Coach Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 09:38 PM
Quote:
Do I let her know I'm having doubts about what I want? About us working out?


Yes.

When let her know you agree with her feelings and let her know that you agree that this marriage isn't working for you either. She is going to look at you like you have antlers sprouting out of your head. Her thinking will change.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/29/10 09:46 PM
Alright, going to find or make an opening either tonight or during MC tomorrow to do this. I think that I'd like to put the joint counseling on hold for awhile, til I feel like we're both all in.
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/30/10 10:56 AM
Starting a new thread in Newcomers with the latest since it really belongs in there for now.
Posted By: Babydoll Re: When does "piecing" start? - 09/30/10 03:43 PM
Hey Pinhead... just reading up on your thread now...
Will follow up on your new thread... keep the faith!
Posted By: pinhead Re: When does "piecing" start? - 10/05/10 08:45 PM
Thanks BD.
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