As requested I am starting a new post. A little background, the short version.
Jan '09 bomb dropped out of nowhere, no other man to deal with, DB'd my ass off. She started going to see a counselor and brought me in later and started to piece this thing back together
SUmmer of '09 was great and everything thing was smooth until about March of this year, when she started to go back into the same ole' miserable wife that she was back in early '09.
Money problems at the time seemed to trigger this bout, even though we live in an upper class neighborhood with club membership, but money did get tight and then as always, income went back up and we are OK now. But she still was miserable.
I called her out on being a little princess and she stated that she just does not care anymore. Found a notebook of hers that had every bad thing I have done since the first of the year, and now I use it to see how I am doing without her knowledge.
Since then, there has been little affection, sex has dropped off to about once every week or two, and when we do have it, it is pretty emotionless on her part.
Decided to go on a 6 month trial (in week number 7) of being the best husband I could be to her. The results have been generally good, and we are in a good relationship now as far as friends go, but still know commitment to meet my needs in this marriage.
Now update time.
As said things are going pretty good, even getting a few loving touches that have not been there in a while.
Having trouble today, decided to write a note for her and told her what a great mother she was and a great wife she is, and she has not even mentioned it to me.
I wanted to do this for her to tell her what I thought about her and that should be enough, but am troubled that she does not have the decency to at least say thanks for the note.
I will not call her out on this as that would not represent why I gave it to her, but I am just a bit hurt (manly huh) that she said nothing.
Hope everyone is doing well, thought I would take a break from here for a while, but see I need you all now and again to bounce stuff off. By the way, I have remained clear of any tirades with her journal, even though there is nothing in there about the good things I do either...
Thanks,
Burt
Burt,
It sounds like you are taking the high road, and being the leader in your M. We must love our spouses, no matter what, all the way to a better M or D. Who knows what's going on with her?
Did the princess comment have any influence on her? I don't agree with you reading her notebooks and journals. She deserves privacy. This secret could come back to bite you.
CL
Thanks CL,
As far as the journal it is just in a notebook that I found that is in a file cabinet. I am using the information in that to make me better for her. I learned a great deal on how she was feeling in it, this was necessary to change my approach as she never discusses her feeling with me until it is much too late.
I know that it might bite me, but it is just a journal, and there are no deep feeling from her in there unless she is journaling on how much of a jerk I had been to her, many times without me knowing I was. Other than that it is mostly a list of activities she did during the day.
I appreciate your concern, but in my mind, the ends justify the means, which is a great relationship going forward into the future.
Thanks again!!!
Burt
Hiya, Burt! I was wondering how you were doing, and actually went to "bump" your thread yesterday, when I saw that it'd been locked.
Yeah, I know what you mean about the note. I am SO MUCH LIKE YOU -- like to be the "pleaser"/"rescuer" type, and used to send lots of those little encouraging things to my wife. I still do -- verbally -- sometimes, but probably 75% less than I used to. You can say the whole "You shouldn't do it because you expect a response; you say it because you feel it's the right thing to do!" thing ALL YOU WANT, but let's face it, when you don't get your needs for validation (or other needs) met in return, you finally give up. Basic stimulus-and-response theory ... right?
Puppy
Is it not basic common courtesy? I can't imagine a girlfriend of hers giving her a note like that and her not saying at least thank you for the note...
It may be a needs not being met thing, but it is also, me loosing respect for her thing as well...
But, will let it go as my 6 month experiment continues...
Burt
Is it not basic common courtesy?
I believe it is, yes. But then again, that belief has never really gotten me anywhere.
In time, I believe we teach people how to treat us. Your wife is who she is, Burt, as is mine (SSM, entitlement problems). We're not going to change them at this point; all we can do is enforce some basic boundaries.
Puppy
It also could be her test to see if I was doing it for the right reasons or not, last night she was ultra-nice to me, even flirtatious in bed as we were drifting off...
I have to officiate my first scrimmage tonight as a head referee, this is my 8th year, but first to be head of a crew (high school), be good to hear some pads popping and get this out of my head a little.
Burt
awww, cool gig!!! I'd love to baseball ump again. I did it as a kid, and volunteer sometimes to be the "dad umping the bases guy" at youth games, but I'd love to get more involved with it. There's NOTHING like tossing some jackass parent!!! ha
Puppy
Ok, I know I said I was leaving the boards, but hey, just had a few extra minutes at work and thought I'd take a look at a few of threads.
Burt, I have an idea of what might be going on with your W. Could be wrong, but here's a thought.
A year ago your W was convinced she wanted to D. You made changes and she started to notice. But she still isn't convinced those changes are for real. So she keeps track of all the things you do that tick her off so she can keep score. But there are times when she forgets that and you have good days, maybe even good weeks, but then she back tracks.
Been there, done that. What I discovered with my W, and I think it probably applies to a lot of WAW's is, they're going to test you for a LONG time before they believe the changes are for real. Her not responding to the note? Just another way for her to see if you're going to be a dik about it.
DON'T react to her not thanking you. I know what Pup is saying about expecting some kind of response, but she's not responding because that's EXACTLY what she knows you're expecting her to do.
And trust me, these little things add up. When I was in the middle of our mess, I was talking to S Harley. He told me that my W's mind was so made up that OM was going to make her happy forever that once the A was over, it would take a long time and a lot of consistent actions for her to begin to believe we had a chance. Same with your W. It's going to take a long time. And SH gave me an analogy. If you came to a river and the water was too deep to cross, but you had to cross, what would you do? You'd start throwing stones into the river to build a bridge. Depending on how deep the river is, it could take a HUGE number of stones to pile up just to break the surface. But that surface wouldn't be broken the whole way across. At first you'd see little breaks here and there. Keep throwing rocks in the river in just the right place and you'll eventually see them peaking through in multiple places. With enough patience, you'll eventually have enough rocks in place to walk across.
That's where your W seems to be to me. You're seeing rocks peek out of the water in some places, but you still can't cross the river. Keep at it, and eventually, you'll have that bridge.
Just my .02.
H4U.
Bridge building, thank you so much Hope! I am with you, and will continue to be consistent with my actions!
Dave
Well guess what, she climbs in bed Friday night and said "thank you for the note, was that today or yesterday?", I said, "it was yesterday." She said, "oh, well thank you it was very nice." I said, "youre welcome, I meant it." and went to sleep.
Looks as though I passed that test.
Good weekend, no ml b/c of son's friends over to spend the night on Sat, and she felt bad after some wine and Chineese last night. In the past I would have pressed her for sex for the next day or some confirmation of when, last night however, I looked for some mylanta and told her we can do when she is feeling better.
Burt
OUTSTANDING.
I'm not one to say I told you so, but.....
She was expecting you to REACT to her ignoring it and once you didn't do that, then it was ok to thank you for the note.
And nice move on not getting upset with the no sex. I'm here to tell you from experience, not getting upset about it like that makes future encounters A LOT MORE INTERESTING
.
Keep it up Burt. You're getting there.
Thanks Hope,
I did not think she would end up commenting on it, but I am learning more and more about the constant testing that I am going through.
Burt
I think I had another test last night, I asked if she wanted to roll around a bit together, and her reply was I could take it or leave it. I refused to let that bother me and this morning she was as warm as she has been in months...
6 month project continues, now to balance that without becoming a doormat.
Burt
how DID you respond? Best if you keep it playful/confident, something like "OK, your loss -- ha!" or "OK, I thought it'd be fun. Let me know if you change your mind!"
But what the hell do I know, lol . . .
Puppy
I asked if she wanted to roll around a bit together
Don't ask. Let me guess what you really want - spontaneity, flirting and passion. It's all about creating the attraction and connection between you two. See how she reacted when you didn't pursue or get upset. Don't chase a cat. Be catnip.
Talk about your day, plans, goals and what's on your mind (besides that). Stay busy. Go to bed before her. Give her some space to chase you.
Don't chase a cat. Be catnip.
CL
Actually guys, I told her as manly as I could muster, well Im going to take it...
Did not really think about it just came out, in the past I would have been all "What do you mean by that" looser...
Burt
Update time,
More of the same really, getting to be at that good friends stage (belch) again. Getting along really well, laughing and joking like we use to.
Got in bed Sat night pretty late from a scrimmage that was delayed because of weather. When I hopped in, she asked what time it was and then reached over and grabbed my arm and rubbed a couple of times and told me that she was glad I was home. She must have been really out of it , lol.
Onward,
Burt
Well, things have been steadily getting better, we have been getting along great. kisses in the morning, hugs in the evening.
Still, get the I don't care if we have sex or not at night. Went 2 weeks without any action then last night got the same response. She then told me to get her little "buzzer". I noticed the battery was still in the machine, which I always take out. So, she has been using it during the past two weeks while I sit there waiting for her to turn on, or trying like hell to turn her on.
I made light of it, but that really hurts for some reason.
Burt
By the way I need your all's opinion on this...I had some bad news on the business front, I had a big deal take a major hit today and am scrambling to hold it together. This would have made us pretty well off for many years and is something I have been working extremely hard on for about 9 months.
I called her to pretty much bitch about those that are giving me a hard time to close this thing out.
Tonight I want to just dump all my worries on her, something that I would never do previously. My mother is in middle stages of Alzheimer's, this thing that was suppose to be a sure thing is being delayed again, and I am not getting what I need from her, while I have been working my ass off making sure that I do everything right for the sake of my M and children.
Now I would not bring up the last part but, is it good to show her my fears and vulnerabilities or is it not very manly. Or do I tell her how I am feeling and then tell her that I have a plan to deal with each of the problems that i have.
Just thinking out loud, let me know what you think.
Dave
but, is it good to show her my fears and vulnerabilities or is it not very manly. Or do I tell her how I am feeling and then tell her that I have a plan to deal with each of the problems that i have. Just thinking out loud, let me know what you think.
Dburt! Good grief of course you have a right to show her your fears and vulnerabilities! Not only a right, a responsibility. Manly schmanly I
hate it when people tell men they shouldn't share their feelings.
You know what happens when you don't share your fears and vulnerabilities? You also end up shutting off your ability to share anything else, either - the warmth, the bonding, the commitment... everything! I've said that to people before and they've thought I was nuts. But it's true - my IC (who's a psychologist) told me so, and I've seen the effects of it again and again in my M.
And, more than that, if you don't share yours with her, she'll stop sharing hers with you. My H didn't share his (and still doesn't to an extent) with me, and all that ended up happening was that I was scared to tell him anything, thinking he was 'perfect' and he'd leave me if he really saw how many fears I really had.
So good grief. Share away. Granted, don't do a 'dump'. Venting never helps because it can come across as blaming (even if you don't intend it that way). I'm sure that not what you're aiming for.
I like your statement to just "tell her how I am feeling and then tell her that I have a plan to deal with each of the problems that i have." But be sure to be willing to listen and feel any support or suggestions she might have too. Not only will it likely give you a bit of a boost, relieve some of your worries; it will make her feel involved in your life, and that you value her insights and presence.
Yes, you let her know for a couple of reasons. One is she has a interest in your success and challenges, if the deal falls thru and you didn't let her know there were potential problems she will feel like you kept her in the dark which is a form of dishonesty. The other is she wants to know about the issues and how you handle adversity - attractive.
She needs to know you can handle it and what you are thinking. Let her know that you have a plan for the different contingencies. Don't come of fearful or whiny but concerned about your struggles. This is intimacy.
is it good to show her my fears and vulnerabilities or is it not very manly. Or do I tell her how I am feeling and then tell her that I have a plan to deal with each of the problems that i have.
Just thinking out loud, let me know what you think.
Dave
I love when my H shares his trials with me. I like to know how he faces things, solves problems, and I also feel a part of his world when he shares that with me. I HATE feeling in the dark. It's scary!! I'd rather know - good or bad. It's a partnership.
Greek
Agree with the others. I personally would leave out lumping in the "and I'm not getting what I need from you" part, but you might as well find out now if you are still married to a woman who will be there for you emotionally when you need her the most.
I'm already on record as saying that I have my doubts, and that she only seems to be able to be happy with you if you've got one of your "big paychecks" coming soon.
Puppy
Thanks guys, I will let you know how it goes. She is at the big University 60 miles away because they are studying why she has such high cholesterol. She is 5'4 120 pounds, works out 3 or 4 times a week. Eats a lot better than me, but has 328 cholesterol with both her hdl and ldl at the same high levels. So, it may be good to get both of our fears out about that as well.
Will hold off on the "im not getting what I need from you part" will see where this potential intimacy between the two of us takes us.
Again, you all are the best, do not feel so alone in all of this.
Burt
That's cuz you're not.
Puppy
You try to be nice...
Burt
Just an update...
All is going pretty smoothly. She has been a lot more pleasant around me, fun to be around and even thanking me for some things that I have been doing to make her life a little easier.
She has been talking a lot more to me about her day, her problems, and her experiences, good and bad. I make it a point to drop what I am doing and totally engage her with eye contact, compassion and understanding or just hear a funny story she has.
Still nothing hot in the bedroom, she seems to tolerate me if I come on to her, which is only about once a week. I try my best, but my performance is nothing like it was before, I guess because of the pressure I put on myself to be mr smooth lovin guy. She also barely lets me touch her anywhere, no petting no foreplay of any king, just lubes me up and gets me going with business on hand. Not very intimate.
Burt
She has been talking a lot more to me about her day, her problems, and her experiences, good and bad. I make it a point to drop what I am doing and totally engage her with eye contact, compassion and understanding or just hear a funny story she has.
Nice going dburt! Zowie!! Hey and make no mistake...this IS intimate to a woman - believe me!! (gotta love that attention and eye contact...TOTALLY makes us all weak in the knees!) If you keep connecting with her on that deep a level, all the physical stuff will happen sure enough in time.
Everything going well, not getting near enough of my love language (physical touch) but all in all thing could be worse.
Big week on the business front, as that project that i thought was dead might be approved Thursday. So I have to keep my eye on that prize while at home I have to keep my eye on the other prize, which is building back a strong marriage.
Slow and steady...
Burt