Hey all, it's me, Hope4Luv, and I'm starting a new thread. My old one (
http://tinyurl.com/Hopes3rdThread)got locked and things are shifted for me so the timing's right. I am not ready to leave my friends here, although I am not piecing. I belong more in MLC, or Infidelity, or Separated. I'll get there but I don't want to lose you.
Any tips on how to alter my signature? I forgot :P
As you know, I"m pretty dark - as much as possible while sharing a child. I am supposed to have "family friday night dinner" at 5pm tonight(a religious ritual) but I"ve had another panic attack since about 2:30 when my S, my dad, and I walked past H's L's office! (by coincidence). I've been panicked out ever since with the thought of being in the same room as him anymore.
It makes no rational sense, as he's done a 180 since I have - I've pulled back, he's been calm, reasonable, civil, I even got a thank you and he ASKED last night to "watch how I discipline S" since I had texted I him that I wanted to talk with him about disciplining S. I will share the story later when I can calm down and think - but anyhow I've been worried for at least nine months about H's anger problem at S and he admitted to me that he's "trying not to physically handle him roughly" and that he knows S said not to yell. He admitted these things?!?!?!?!? WTF? And he actually asked for my advice, instead of shutting me out? I don't get it. But anyhow more later but this new attitude doesn't help me when I'm planning to D him and fight for custody because of abuse! Not to mention it pulls me back into fantasy that we'll reconsile because "he seems to be coming around". UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is he acting the way I wanted him to - now that I"m leaving? IT's totally backward and confusing and freaking me out bigtime.
Thus my new topic thread.
OMG! Anyone who has followed my thread wont believe this - I don't. Ended up having the family dinner after all - because H didn't get my message until he was already on his way, so he came over anyhow.
He was so nice!
He was very helpful and made some of the dinner, and I broke down for a minute saying it was a hard day with S - he's been sick and having meltdowns (always does the day after going to dad's) and I was feeling like a failure for not getting the dinner together properly. H asked how he could help me! That's when he took over making dinner and said don't worry about it. This from the man who criticized my dinners over and over for the past year. And even said this...."I've actually been impressed at how well you've been keeping the house together."
This from the man who terrifies me every time he comes over for fear of the constant criticisms and frustrations at the state of the house and my disorganization? I don't know what is going on!
I don't know what is going on!
You can post anywhere you want to, that makes no difference. You know you should be on the MLC board but refuse to post there. Everything that is going on with your H is perfectly normal(for MLC).
Have you read the MLC resources? Go to the start of almost anyones thread(newbies in MLC) and their are links for the resources and other good threads. READ THEM. You have been getting good advice here. You have detached and things are moving forward.
But you are a long way from being done and a long way from being back to piecing. The fact that you are not posting on the MLC board should not be a reason to not understand what is happening to your H within this process.
You can do the research you need to. Most of it is all contained here on these forums.
You can do this.
Thank you! Yes, I came to piecing back when H was lying to me, saying we were in MC to give our M an honest chance, and later got a second bomb he had a gf the whole time and wasn't coming back.
I may go to MLC - like I said, my friends here have been wonderful.
I will read the resources and the newbies - thank you.
My new thought today that Mr. SuddenlyNice is a manipulative ploy for control, just as his anger has been. Another lie. Our final MC session, before he refused to return, over a month ago, ended with me saying that if we can't communicate respectfully over issues with S, then we will have to go to mediation. The MC said this too.
Suddenly he's so nice and appearing to work with me (however minimally and from a distance) over S issues. But it hit me today when I spoke with a friend - OF COURSE. HE'S SCARED OF ME GOING TO MEDIATION OR TO COURT and saying what an unreasonable, abusive man he has been. So it's an act. This is quite likely.
I still suffer the anxiety attacks when we are to have handoffs with S, waiting for Mr. Hyde to return. I realized he is trying to pacify me into believing he is going to be reasonable, thereby demonstrating there's "no need to go to lawyers and mediators."
But I don't trust him. He was also this nice before "bomg #2" hit me. I'm struggling with wanting to believe in this nice guy, the guy I fell in love with and knew during our M when things were good. But I must remember.
I feel I was manipulated into signing the legal separation agreement quickly out of 1) my own hope at reconsiliation 2) his continuing to lead me on that this may happen and 3)intermitten anger outbursts of threatening me with more serious legal actions and 4) my guilt at my part in the destruction of our M and my hope that if I changed, he would see the changes and return.
Today he said something weird. Last week, S had said that dad yelled at him and when he told dad not to yell, H said "mom yells too." (blame). I did not tell H of this interaction but I did react and sent a txt saying that I would like to talk about discipline strategies so that we are on the same page. It was vague, but somehow he figured it out.
H responded that he would talk "briefly on the phone" about this issue, but has yet to set a time and follow through. But today at the hand off he says that S told HIM that mom yelled at him and threatened him, and that "of course" he doesn't believe S but we "need to be on the same page" regarding discipline so that we "both" don't believe S when he says these things.
At first, I was glad he was interested in talking about discipline strategies, (I basically want him to stop yelling at S). Then later I thought this may be a manipulation to say "S says these things about you and I"m willing to agree that they aren't true if you are willing to believe they aren't true when S says them about me." I thought this is his way of covering his own a$$. As well as appearing to be nice.
I also thought this could be a way of him telling me that he has ammunition against me as well, so don't use those statements against him legally.
I told him immediately that I have worked extremely hard at keeping my voice calm even when I'm firm. I told him one of my biggest regrets about our M was that S heard us fighting so much and I've worked hard to change this in myself. H actually rubs my back for a sec and says "Why are you getting defensive, you seem tense. I just want to talk about it."
AS much as I want to believe this is true, I just can't/ I am so afraid this is the soothing, hypnotic hiss of a snake in the grass.
I don't know what to believe anymore.
Ps I made a mistake in my initial post to this thread - my last thread was
http://tinyurl.com/y8jkhnj
Ack - thinking/praying too much tonight.
Another thought: I've gone very dark and he is starting to get it that he can't treat me abusively anymore. I have acted on my personal boundary of protecting myself and he's getting the message louder than any words I have said over the past year.
STill confused!!!!
THoughts?
PS Lance thank you for your input on my thread, and since you are from MLC i welcome your input at anytime - in fact would appreciate more of it!!!!
Hssss. I think you know exactly what it is. why do you doubt yourself?
THank as always LOtus. I guess I"m in this relationship in the first place because I always doubt myself.
Hey Hope4Love, you asked for thoughts so...I really hope you can cut this man out of your life and proceed with the D. Also you're not IN this relationship with him, he ended it and has a gf sweets. Posting in Piecing is all part of that - you need to work on acceptance that you are no longer together?
I have followed your thread for so long and hoped that you WOULDNT reconcile. We hear so many stories here, but a man who is angry and abusive to the point of making you shake and have panic attacks, thats not healthy and like Michelle says, not all marriages should be saved. Proceed with that mediation for coparenting too.
Hugs xxx
Thanks Ali =- I had no idea you follow my thread. I"ve gotten a lot of inspiriation from reading yours!!!
Listen, I am in the Piecing Forum now just to stay here with my friends. I have asked for advice and my friends said it doesn't matter where I post. I"m not staying here because I have any illusions we are still together or are in any way piecing.
I appreciate everyone reminding me to cut him out of my life. Its very hard with a child and I have to see him every few days. But I'm doing awesome at not being around, not talking to him unless it has to do with S.
And, to be honest, I still yearn for the "old R" where it wasn't this terrible all the time, the man I feel in love with who seemed so sweet. So I"m peeling back the layers of my own perceptions to see what is really in front of me, instead of what was or what could be. This is why I vent!
H4L -
Hey old friend, been a while...been too busy in my insane life. Trust your gut. It is so, so hard with lots of contact and remembering the good times, but your H has shown over and over again his true colors. I know it sucks. I know its hard. But there is no way he has changed this drastically this quickly.
I feel for you, I really do. I wish it could be true, but he has had too far to go to change this much. And there has been no real crisis or any hitting rock bottom that I can remember.
You can do this. You've been at it a long time, like all of us you have good days/weeks and bad. Have confidence in yourself and vent and rant all you need too.
(())
GW
Hi Hope! Hope you're doing well. I just caught up and found your new thread. To answer your question from the end of your other thread, H and I were all businesslike for a good while. Probably about 2-3 years... Don't pay attention to anyone's time frames though. Everyone and everything is different.
The usual routine weekly was that I saw H when he brought back our S on the weekend,most of the time I never actually spoke to him at all. I'd greet my son in the doorway and hug him and tell him to say goodbye to daddy and that was it. I avoided talking to him about anything unless it was absolutely necessary. He only got past my front door once a year on S's birthday party (oh, and I'd mail him an invitation to that party just like any other guest. LOL).
Now, I can't deny that there was never a bit of vindictiveness in my essentially ignoring his existence, but most of it really had to do with me protecting myself and distancing myself him.
You're doing good, but stop looking at how he's reacting to you. Don't analyze him or even spend a spare minute thinking about him and what he says or doesn't say or does or doesn't do.
Hi hun, now on holidays for nine more weeks so can sneak on and say hello! First of all I want to say how proud I am off you, getting to the point where you can see H for what he is and for learning your own true value at last! I know that will be long journey for you but it will be fun Im sure!
Will try and catch up more with you soon
xx
Hey old friends -
Great to hear from you all! Thank you for checking in and saying hello.
Boy, when they say "GAL" they didn't mention it can have magical results! I performed Saturday night, playing the character of an "Aphrodite robot." I felt very proud of the show, got a lot of compliments and had a fab social night afterward.
I got asked out on three dates that night!~
Not from my H, but hey, not bad for a middle aged mom!
I have more crap from my H - ups and downs...too much to post today, will hopefully catch you all up later. Meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy two of those dates this weekend!
Yay for you! Enjoy yourself. You deserve to have someone treat you nicely.
Awesome Hope!!
My son is in theatre at school and I get to do back-stage stuff- SOOO much fun!! Last year for Sound of Music the "Maria" wore my wedding dress!!
Your H will "smell" that attention you are getting--oh boy!! You may be surprised what he will do!!
Keep us updated on the dates, too!
Aha, I found you! (((hugs))) just sending you hugs and hoping you're having a good weekend- will try to write more later and catch up on this thread.
Hi folks
Well I notice my H is far less verbally and emotionally abusive since I FINALLY have pulled waaaay back. When he even starts to escalate, I immediately walk away, leave, or hang up. I've gotten more apologies in the last month than probably my whole marriage.
He still has that gf I think and although I suffer great pain over this, my dimness has saved me.
I need to not weaken my resolve - I get seduced by his transformation into a polite, even apologetic person. I glimpse the man I was married to once. But in therapy I realize I cannot be cuckolded again! I was lied to by this man for the past year.
So now - how to really get him into a crisis? I guess I need MLC or infidelity forum - will end up there soon, so friends, please fine me there! I am talking to two therapists and one lawyer - all females - who support me in fighting for full custody, due to H's abusive nature. I am very sad to have to fight him but it's time I solidified my resolve and fought for me and my son. Any advice welcome. He is comfortably cake eating, with me nearly gone, but not completely, still polite and friendly in dealings about our son - but this will not ensure he looks at himself or our relationship. It will allow him to continue to walk away feeling the victim himself, feeling fine while partying with some young thing while legally married to me, missing every weekend with his son in order to spend it with her. I need to finally take control and threaten him with what he will lose with this kind of behavior. It will either wake him up, or more likely, give me the power and control to move on knowing I did the right thing for me and S5.
In other news, had two dates last week. First ones since the bomb 1.5 years ago. I REALLY REALLY liked this one guy and it was a great date. I left a vm the next day to say I had a great time - and follow up on some potential plans we had discussed for the following weekend. THEN SILENCE.
So now I have to db him too? Rats! Yep, NC. But ouch. I really felt ready and excited to be dating a nice guy.
(((Hope))) Glad to hear from you and know you're still out there. Stay strong, keep the resolve, remember there has to be a LONG period of consistent behavior to begin to make up for what he's put you through. He's nowhere near that yet.
Keep us posted--
Hope--you go girl!! A date! wow--I can not even imagine it but I do dream...!lol.
I got served last Wednesday--don't know if you knew. Had a rough day, but it wasn't TOO terrible. Had a ton of friends stop by and that was nice!
I am still "workin it".lol. Still find the journey very interesting! Mine has been really pretty nice now for about 3 weeks. I don't care if his L's told him to or not, it has been a long 8 months of him screaming at me and this is REFRESHING!! I hope he'll continue and see that I can really respond to THIS person!
Oh, he also has been fixing things or paying to have them fixed!! Again, don't know why, don't care--I will take it!lol.
I think you are smart to go for full custody--he is too involved with OW anyway. And his parenting skills are much to be desired....
Take care--I lurk over in Infedelity a lot--follow a gal named SunnyD's thread. I will look for you there!!
Laura - I'm sorry! FIGHT! BE STRONG. This can begin a new time of freedom for you for finding the love you deserve!
I still don't know which forum I belong in - infidelity or MLC. For now, here's the latest interesting development TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS!
BTW the date was fabulous but the guy never called back. Very very sad. I was ready to have someone new.
Anyhow, since I"ve pulled way back you all know my H has been kind, non reactive, dare I say pleasant, apologizing, etc.
WE had a hard "family dinner" on Sat. I was tired and emotional and mad and of course the whole thing went downhill. Still feeling like it all begins and ends with me, still struggling with feeling totally responsible for if we get along or not.
The good news is we turned it around and I ended up crying and he comforted and hugged me a little. He claimed he was sorry because he has been "trying to get along better". I finally out and asked him why he has been nicer recently and he said "he decided" that we should get along better because "he realized" he had been expressing anger all the time at my behavior etc.
So he thought he came up with this great idea all on his own even though I'be been asking him to behave nicer for a year?
So I out and told him that his "new behavior" came at the same time I stopped talking to him or being around him. HE HAD NO IDEA AND HADN'T NOTICED!!! He "thought I was just busy."
Can they be this blind? Could I have made this much of an impression on him without him even being conscious of it? Weird!
I still struggle with his niceness. It's so seductive to believe him that he "came to this on his own" and I should just "get along" with him. The other part of me still fantasizes about my plan to go total NC and slam him with full custody and a fight.
And feeling sad and disappointed that the new man who seemed so interested in dating me disappeared. I was looking forward to moving on and getting a new life.
THOUGHTS?
He noticed, do not think he did not. And sorry about the no call back, but do not be surprised if that guy calls you out of the blue, it is kinda of a guy thing to do...
Burt
I agree with Burt. I definitely think your H was responding to your actions whether he admits it or not.
As for the new guy, yes, you do need to DB him too in a way. Don't get all clingy with any man! Try to approach dating as a casting director auditioning leading men. They have to impress you and be the right fit. You wouldn't just cast the first actor who read for you, right? You should read Why Men Marry Bitches, it's an awesome book and it's very complementary to the DB practices.
THanks friends, yes I agree with both points.
Weird that H can notice without even realizing he notices. I guess that's part of why DB works. I guess it's good to go further in the NC direction as this is what is getting results, however minor they are.
I hope the other guy calls out of the blue - he was my third date actually and I really like him. On the other hand, I'm doing great just getting on with my life and (convincing myself) of the attitude of "his loss." No expectations but he is nice so if he calls again I'll wait a few days and then perhaps see him again if there's a nice offer.
As for H, more happenings today. I think I handled it ok, at least with more 180s! Had to meet to separate our retirement accounts per our legal separation agreements. FIrstly, H tells me only last night that we need to do it this morning. I should have just not allowed such short notice, but Ms. Nice said fine I understand your busy schedule, and made the app.
First of all, it's emotional for me. I don't want to be separated or divorced, and yet I can't let this show. Secondly, I misread his email, where he asked me to bring certain documents, so I didn't. Thirdly, H stresses out in the bank and in front of S about "did I read the email", "why didn't I read the email," etc. Then he asks me to run home and get the documents. Again, I shouldn't have but I did ( the accounts are market sensitive and needed to be done today). Of course, I couldnt find the "right" set of documents, only an earlier draft. Of course H is on the phone instructing me and asking "why don't you know where it is?" "you dont know where it is?" "It's in an envelope" etc - me just saying "look I only have the earlier document if you need the other one, I need more notice than the night before" was being ignored.
I'm really mad and start to speak up for myself (180) saying this is hard on me enough and frankly if he wants a D he should be doing this himself, not asking me to gather these documents, etc, and that I did not like how he embarassed me in public and in front of S by grilling me about the email. He said ok and started to calm his tone down, although still pressuring me. AND I know how negatively he thinks of me - it's been stated far too many times before. So I'm increasingly uncomfortable.
Finally, I get back to the bank, it's been almost an hour now cut out of my vacation time with S, ( I had interrupted his playdate to rush over and meet H per his requests - bad move) and when I get there - the final straw.
After sitting for ten more minutes - on the other side of the room, I cannot even look at or speak to H now I'm so disgusted, the teller says that H can just EMAIL THE DOCUMENT.
I DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE AFTER ALL THAT RUNNING AROUND, PRESSURE, SHAME, CONDESCENTION, AND STRESS. I took S and walked straight out without talking to H.
And here's the typical H move: H yells down the street to me: "don't you want to talk about 'the schedule FOR TONIGHT'?" Well I had already emailed him my rehearsal schedule for the week and I reminded him as I kept walking. He then shouts further: "well because of all this, I won't be able to make it on time tonight to pick up S." He knows I have a paid gig tonight ... it's punishment, not because suddenly he needs more time.
Well if that doesn't encourage me to go NC (so I don't get bullied around for no reason) and to fight for legal custody (so he can't just disappear on his nights) then I don't know what will.
I am waiting 24/48 hrs before I say anything if I do at all but right now I feel like giving him a piece of my mind in the name of standing up for myself - usually I would just run around and then feel bad for causing HIM stress!
But in reality, FIL is coming this week and this reminds me to STAY AWAY as dark as possible - as I was feeling seduced into spending family time because of S.
Any reflections?
had two dates last week. First ones since the bomb 1.5 years ago. I REALLY REALLY liked this one guy and it was a great date. I left a vm the next day to say I had a great time - and follow up on some potential plans we had discussed for the following weekend. THEN SILENCE.
So now I have to db him too? Rats! Yep, NC. But ouch. I really felt ready and excited to be dating a nice guy.
As for the new guy, yes, you do need to DB him too in a way. Don't get all clingy with any man! Try to approach dating as a casting director auditioning leading men. They have to impress you and be the right fit. You wouldn't just cast the first actor who read for you, right?
Hi Hope. I saw your thread because I like to follow Pearl's posts. She's so smart. Also, I was married to an emotionally abusive man so I thought I'd post to you.
I agree with Pearl about the new guy. No need to thank him again the next day. Just thank him at the end of the date. Let him call you about getting together again. It's fun to be pursued, rather than trying to make anything happen. Enjoy it!. I think men
like to pursue so don't deprive them of that pleasure.
Weird that H can notice without even realizing he notices.
He may or may not be telling you the truth when he says he didn't notice.
You know you should be on the MLC board but refuse to post there. Everything that is going on with your H is perfectly normal(for MLC).
I strongly disagree with this. (Do you 'know' you should be posting there? I thought you said you weren't sure.) Emotional abuse is not caused by a mid-life crisis, even if your H is having one. How long has he been abusive? He's only 35 now.
No offense to the people in MLC because there are some wonderful people there, but Hope, I see your H responding better when you set strong limits. I hate seeing good people over in MLC tolerate so much crap behavior and hanging in there. I would like to see you get support in being more firm.
I am waiting 24/48 hrs before I say anything if I do at all but right now I feel like giving him a piece of my mind in the name of standing up for myself
I'm glad you are taking time to think it through. Remember this astute observation of yours:
I've gone very dark and he is starting to get it that he can't treat me abusively anymore. I have acted on my personal boundary of protecting myself and he's getting the message louder than any words I have said over the past year.
Dudess -
Thank you so much for the response, yes it is different with an emtionally abusive situation. "Putting up with the spew" is not helpful.
Yes, Pearl is very smart. I value her - your, Pearl!- advice. Yes I have read the Bi**h book - time for a reread I suppose.
AS for the new guy, I guess I messed up calling him the next day. The other reason - but still shouldn't have - was that we had discussed going to a show that following thursday with a group - and I wanted to know if I should get him a ticket.
No response. No pursuing since. It's been a week. Still think he might call, DBurt?
Anyhow, I"m doing great not calling him. I know now that I want/deserve to be pursued and I've never fully let that happen with a guy. So whether he does or doesnt, I'm holding out. If he doesn't, someone else eventually will.
Tonight H is actually going to fulfill his requirements to be with S. I txted him that rehearsal is going to be later anyhow, but let me know. He is going to show up. I'm going to keep that boundary and not talk to him. I'm going to leave right away.
This show is a blessing - it dropped right in my lap. I have rehearsals every night which allows me a focus beyond men (ugh) and keeps me busy when H and FIL are around in the evenings.
DUdess, thank you so much for your awesome post - and I'll be sure to catch up on your sitch soon.
Thanks for the advice all!
PS the pattern of emotional abuse has always been there. Got worse with time. I definitely have my part in it - and responding is my biggest mistake I suppose. Then he gets right into a fight and blames me. I've reacted out of (justifiable) anger and hurt, but said and did things I didn't mean, wasn't proud of. I've worked incredibly hard to be different. He has been worse. Until recently when I went dim. SUddenly, he's nice. But not coming back, and not really really seeing how much pain I am and have been in.
It's been a hundred times worse since he left and found OW. I did some horrible stuff too, but I"ve made serious changes. If he doesn't see that or value it, his loss!
Hi all,
Just kind of journallying - Im really sad lately. H being nice has me feeling weak, as I miss him more than ever now. In my own private way I kind of "broke" last night - just in that I didn't run to my back room as soon as I got home. H was here with FIL and I was missing H too much. So I sat with them in the living room and chatted for a few minutes.
It doesn't help. I just felt like FIL and H were looking at each other and talking, ignoring me. I felt pain in my stomach. I was yearning to be a part of H's life again but felt invisible. I suppose dim is best = for me.
This is so hard. I miss him terribly,and now that the meanness has disappeared, I miss him even more. Then I remember how he has a GF and all the negative things he said to me.
Why am I having such a hard time letting my M go? Why am I haunted by positive memories all the time? Why does this rejection sting to the bone?
Sorry to hear you're so sad H4L. Are you seeing an IC to work through all this? Maybe you could write down all the bad things H has done and said with the fact that there is OW at the top of the list. Keep it with you and whenever you start to dwell on the selective good memories, read it to remind yourself of the reality of the whole picture.
PS This is the last full day of FIL's visit. I've managed to avoid him all week. Today H returns to work and tells me last night that FIL would like to visit with S today. This means I would have to hook up with FIL to give him time with S5.
Should I do it? I really don't like FIL = more for what he has created. Most of H's emotionally and verbally abusive tendencies come from this man, although now that he is older, he hasn't been too offensive to me personally. Im torn between wanting to let S see grandpa while he's here one last time while he's out here (he lives on the other side of the country and comes out only once a year) and not wanting to see him at all - and privately resenting H for assuming that I would be ok with hanging out with him. H is the one who wanted to be separated, I feel like he can handle his side of the family. I would never ask him to hang out with my parents and S.
Also, they were gone all weekend. I agreed to it, so it's ok, but then H asks if my parents can watch S tonight as well - during his time. I couldn't believe it. I said no way. You have been gone three days, your son needs to see you. Then he says "oh, ok, you're right." How can he be so insensitive? Am I overreacting?
Pearl - you are right - that may be why I'm extra sad this week - my IC is on vacation! lol
Ok, a list is a great idea - perhaps I can even post it here so I don't chicken out! Thank you.
I"m so glad I posted here! Journalling and hearing your responses is helping me to see the pattern.
So after I felt I let my guard down a "little" last night, there was a cost today. I can't prove it's related, but it seemed like it wouldn't be a coincidence.
Planning a party tonight for S5 who is starting kindergarten this week. I ended up taking FIL all day so I figured H could help out. Also, since he's been on his good behavior he's offered numerous time to swing by the store, etc.
So we're talking on the phone this afternoon planning dinner. He offered to pick up the cake I ordered. I call back a few minutes later and ask if he'll call to have a pizza delivered. He asks for a specific order and I give it.
Then the classic thing happens - he gets irritated sounding and cuts me off saying "whatever, I'll figure it out. I gotta go." and rushes off the phone. Curt tone, and it hurts.
It's small, but it cuts deep when it happens over and over through the years. It's also a small example of a similar way he talks to me in a bigger way when there are blow outs. Also, in the past, even this might lead to a fight if I bring up how he hurt me with his tone, asked to spoken to nicer, or asked what was wrong.
I've gotten the best treatment lately by ignoring him and disappearing. I couldn't do that tonight, it was the party.
However I noticed him arguing with his dad over the time it would take him to get to the airport in the morning. No matter how much his dad insisted he wanted to get there early, H kept saying "I'm telling you...it's_______(this way)." He was relentless and wouldn't stop arguing and insisting he was right.
Thank you Universe, for reminding me why not being with my H is a GOOD IDEA.
Hey Hope, I am glad the "universe" put it out there for ya!lol.
It is SO WEIRD all that selective memory stuff we do. I am lucky too, that the minute I have some sort of conversation with my H, he spews a TON of nonsense and is so completely ugly to me that I just smile inside and think--good ridance!!
You know what I love about talking to him though? Not letting him get to me. If you can do it, it helps you feel stronger inside. I feel very, very proud of myself that I listen to his garbage and it has NO EFFECT ANYMORE!lol. I'm like, "good grief he is out of touch with reality".
But if you're not there yet, do go back to being dark. It's best for You I think in your sitch. Doesn't hurt to poke your head out now and then to see how you are doing, but if he can get to you still, at least you know what to do for YOU!
There is no way for it not to effect me. It gets to me on a deep level. The only way it has not started to get to me is when I'm dark(ish).
You've all helped me answer my question as to why H has suddenly turned "nice"...and here was another timely answer in my inbox today. Perhaps he sensed my strength and even without me saying a word somehow sensed I was talking to a strong lawyer?...seems to fit, what do you think?
"Why?
Because he’s having a “Mr Nice Guy moment”.
Don’t get me wrong. He hasn’t turned into a truly nice guy.
He’s just cunning enough to know that, in certain circumstances, Mr Nice Guy works better than Mr Nasty.
You see, he doesn’t want the marriage to end.
Maybe he still wants Nathalie around. It would be far fetched to say he [has suddenly realized that he] loves her.
More likely, he doesn’t want to look bad to other people. But…
there’s another much more important reason: he’s thinking about how much this marriage breakdown is going to cost him financially.
That’s one good reason why abusive men sometimes turn nice, and sometimes nasty, when their partner involves a lawyer.
They want to minimize the financial cost to them.
Sorry to sound so cynical, but…
It’s true.
The best outcome for them is if they can get you to trust them to provide for you.
Think about it for a moment -
Why on earth would you “trust” someone who has a track record of treating you badly?
So, what should Nathalie do?
I’d certainly advise her to:
Ignore his appeals to her better nature – because to all intents and purposes he doesn’t have one
Avoid “negotiating” directly with him
Communicate, as much as possible, only through lawyers
Keep pushing for what is rightfully hers "
Hope- I'm confused-- who's "Nathalie"??
THat was in an email I got from a coach dealing with women in emotionally abusive relationships. SHe was speaking about a client she had, using it as an example.
Journalling more...
Yesterday's resolve threatened by son's first day at kindergarten this morning, spent "as a family" with H, S and I. Yearning for my marriage returned. Hope I recover soon...
Deep breaths hun, you can get yourself back to a place of peace you have done it several times before now, just need to keep self soothing till it becomes normal..
Hope S enjoyed his first day at kindy (())
Yes, Rabbit, S loves kindergarten. Thanks for asking. He's so proud to be a big boy.
Venting - tonight is H's night with S and I've been very clear over the months that anytime S goes to H's apt., the next day S is very emotional, throwing tantrums, etc. One night, I told H it was ok to try bringing S to his apt. on a different evening (he takes him there once a week) and it was a disaster. S was up very late crying and having tantrums. I told H this was a mistake.
Tonight I had a job, and when I came home, H and S weren't here. I had asked him to bring him to our home, per usual. Especially with the new kindergarten schedule, I want things as regular as possible.
He brings him home twenty minutes before S's bed time and I had been freaked out - thinking they are at the hospital or H kidnapped him or something. H says they were at his apt. I told him this was not ok with me. We need to talk about it ahead of time. I am writing this down to use in the D case for custody. This may not seem like a big deal, but to my son it is. And to me it is. I told him so. I can't believe how blatantly he just thinks everything is fine. How he thinks he can do whatever he wants with S without talking to me. We had an agreement to discuss together the visitation schedule and not pay lawyers/mediators to hash it out. Now I'm thinking differently.
H on the other hand thinks I'm upset over nothing, or over a little thing. What do you all think?
Don't be penny wise and pound foolish. Spend the money on a lawyer/mediator to get all custody agreements in writing and entered with the court.
Pearl, it's just what I'm doing today.
My H last night brought S to his house and introduced him to OW. Without talking to me about it. He seems completely unconcerned at how this may or may not affect S. Not to mention the lies, which he blamed on me - saying "well, you said you didn't want to talk about her." Of course, I had also said I wasn't comfortable with S being around her - and he said he didn't remember this. Of course I don't want to talk about her casually, but when it comes to my son I want to talk about everything.
Calling the lawyer now.
(((Hope))))
This kind of stuff just freaks me out. They are just SO SELFISH--they want to give the impression that this is just all fine and dandy when IT IS NOT!!
I'm so glad you are able to do something about it.
Let us know how it goes!!
What a dick.
Totally 200% inappropriate for him to be having S around OW at this point.
That said, I don't know that any judge will rake him over the coals for that. They're generally not keen on a parent trying to micromanage the other parent when they are with the child unless we're talking something illegal or flat out life endangering. It's probably good to keep track of this info for your lawyer because you don't have this all settled legally yet, but don't expect H to be knocked over the head with a couple stone tables of "thou shall not let S hang with OW", "thou shall not let S stay up past 8 o'clock", etc.
He's never going to do everything as you would or even as you would like him to. You may adamantly think your way is best for S (and it very well may be), but unless his way dangerous or illegal, no one with any authority will be able to make him do differently. You're going to have to bite your tongue lots of times. It's just the way it'll be, unfortunately. I've uttered the phrase, "different houses, different rules" many times to S.
Are you going for joint custody or are you trying to get sole? I know your state works differently than mine and I remember us talking a bit about it before. We don't generally do joint physical custody here as a rule so that was one battle I never had to fight.
Yes, of course I can't control him. I can't even talk to him. When I do, he calls me crazy.
My state automatically gives 50/50 to both parents and this is what is in the Separation Agreement. But I spoke with a lawyer ystrday. It's going to cost me a mint, but she is going to request H pays all my legal fees.
Here is what I have: he shows signs of illegal drug use, and possibly dependency (see my earlier threads). The lawyer's father died in a place crash because he was flying when high. She wants to file a motion to not have H take S up in a plane. Included in the motion is to "maintain status quo" which means H has S one night overnight per week and comes here to the house to visit the other two nights. He has to use civil language to both me and S.
That's the short term plan - this week! OMG I am so scared. I know H will think I"m making things up for revenge - tell me I"m crazy, that this is nonsense, that I"m lying, and he'll badmouth me to people. It's going to escalate the recent calm we've had. But I need to reclaim some power here and stop letting fear of his anger control me and get me to give in.
The long term plan is to fight for more custody. I start by asking for sull, and I suppose I"m lucky if I get 80%.
Support welcome. I'm terrified.
Hope, you are absolutely doing the right thing--your H NEEDS to have the wind taken out of his sails and the calm only makes you have those unrealistic fantasies about what you wish he was--and you need to keep focus on what he REALLY is.
I have my own battle going on here--I'm going to remove the tile in my S's bathroom (it has mold growing in there--so unhealthy) and I'm also going to be installing the appliances that have been sitting in my garage for 9 months now (!) and expect a complete meltdown.
Funny thing is--when I do end up doing these types of things he respects me for it!!
Be strong Hope, it's the only way to be!
THx Laura. Going to call the L back now.
Hey everyone - rereading my posts. I'm there. I'm ready to fight for myself and my son. I'm going to get the D I want, and I'm moving on. I'm out of denial now. No more excuses for abuse or drug use. I'm getting it all down legally no matter what the cost. I will not take the blame, the rage, the humiliation any longer. I will stop listening to his crap and pining for a fantasy relationship that does not exist.
I'm strong.
Good for you Hope. You are strong and you can do this! It's the right thing to do.
You're doing the right thing Hope! This is kind of what I was trying to spit out last night-don't lose sight of the forest and all that. Him having S meet OW--not the best parenting decision. Him talking to your S the way he speaks to you--that's something worth taking a stand over.
I would make sure you plainly tell your L details of his verbal abuse and intimidation towards you and towards your S. Maybe even print out some of your posts from here so you have specific incidences to elaborate on to give her an idea of what he's capable of.
You're not making things up. At this point, who cares what H thinks of you. You're doing this for your S--for him directly and for him to be able to have a happy, confident, strong mom and not see a woman beaten down by words.
Yes, I went through hours of past journals yesterday - my, how horrible it's been. Next is to revisit my old posts here. I have to have something tangible and in writing for the L.
It's hard because I know I feed the problem at times, I sure lost my temper at him the other night in a way I hadn't done in a long time. But I must keep moving forward and not let his Mr. Nice Guy convince me to back down.
(((Hope)))
You're doing great. Please write down everything nasty with dates you glean from the review. Keep a copy for yourself and anytime you think of labelling anything he does as "nice", pull the list out for a reality check. He hasn't changed.
THank you~all your support is truly appreciated.
I also remind myself he wants to "look good" at all costs. It's surreal to sit reading all the nasty stuff and then seeing him act nice.
JOURNALLING:
Trying to stay on track. My old self is back: feeling guilty for starting a big D fight, H may lose his pilot's licence, time with his child, etc. Feeling like if I made problems too why should I fight him- I'm just as guilty for this all going downhill. And finally, after a pleasant back to school night yesterday with H, I'm scared to disrupt the status quo which is finally FINALLY calm and not abusive (much).
I got back on here to set myself straight! Read about how people have to stand up for themselves and move on. Take action - if the WAS wants a D, give it to them in full reality. Stop letting them cake eat and have everything their way according to fantasies of having everything their own way.
Reminding myself that Little Bo Peep has gotten me nowhere except doormat status for the past year.
SO I found this post and want to share it - if only to remind myself!
"Yes, if you're marriage is over, and if your ex is being rational, and is putting the kids needs above their own, then I think the LBS needs to put aside their pride and anger and try to have a good relationship with their ex, for the kids' sake. If they're in fogged out "I'm doing what I want to be happy, no matter the consequences to anyone else" mode, then no, I don't think the LBS should be their friend, at all. The LBS should kick the WAS out of their life, and do everything they can to protect the kids from their wayward parent's impulsive destructive behavior."
This is just what I needed to hear after this week. Tuesday I emailed H to say I was sick and needed him to help with S5 - even though it was officially "my night"...a 180. (Not only is S coming home early from kindergarten, H is going away on a vacation this weekend and I am taking S for four days straight!). I told him this would be a nice way for him to make up some of the time with S that he would be missing. I told him I was having a hard time taking care of S.
H only replied he had "friends in town"- who are these people? - (I'm sure visiting with OW as well) and would not come. When I pressed him (a 180 - trying not to be a doormat, and trying to point out his selfishness) to ask if he could either reschedule or arrive to his gathering after putting S to bed, he never responded.
Then on Wednesday he emails and asks if he can have extra time with S that afternoon?!? No mention of how it went with me being sick, how did S do, etc. Wed is his night, but he usually comes at dinner and so I thought how rude - he wants visits when he wants them and doesn't want to be inconvenienced other times (including OW and god knows what else - partying?).
BTW I ignored him until he texted later and then I briefly said we were busy and he can come at his usual time.
The old me would have dropped everything to let S see his dad - out of the guilt that dad is not around this coming weekend. Just to be friendly and nice and make everyone happy. This new me felt like a jerk, but H hardly noticed - saying "it's fine, no big deal."
That's when I read posts about selfish WAS's especially those with OWs and now I feel stronger again.
I think I'll move onto "Infidelity" even though I"m filing for D. Could also go in "Separated" I guess. So friends, don't lose track of me!
I have to vent.
They say someone who has OW is in a fog, but I am the one coming out of a fog. I can't believe it took me so long to come out of denial because of my "love" for my H and my desire for my son to have an intact family.
I now see: That the past year, not only was H lying to me that we may reconsile by going to MC, he was abusing me and S emotionally and verbally while he went back to his OG (Other GIRL - I'm sure she's no woman - the girl H dated before me was 17 - and he was 28!). I mean it just all hit me. I could see it all clearly like a movie in my mind. He has been lying, cheating, and abusing me. For over a year. Before she came into the picture, we had been living apart, but it was agreed it was temporary, that we would start MC on month four and work on our M. Then it turned on a dime and now I can see it all.
I am disgusted and furious.
I was cleaning my kitchen, going over this in my mind, and imagining telling H to tell his girl that the little boy she met so "casually" the other night is in a broken home because of her - because of her encouragement to keep a married man from facing his problems and working on his family.
Then H calls. He's away on some stupid gaming conference(why not - life is all fun and games these days for him, right?) and I'm home alone with S for four nights. Which, by the way is a most welcome respite - no anxiety attacks!!!!
He wants to talk to S and of course I have to let him. But I was in such a state as to be cold as ice. For all I know she's standing right there with him.
I know Allen recommends saying these types of things directly to OP but I in no way can stomach meeting her or talking to her. Should I send him such a note? Or just go NC and go through lawyers?
Anxiety attacks are back - H has been gone on a four day weekend (and thank god because I had an amazingly calm and happy weekend)...he's back tonight and I have to see him tomorrow for the handoff and I'm already having a huge panic attack, can't think straight...
I don't know what you are doing to help with your anxiety. One thing that helped me get grounded was this exercise which focuses on your physical environment. When you feel anxiety:
Name 5 things you can touch. (say it out loud and touch them).
Name 5 things you can hear.
Name 5 things you can see.
Name 5 things you can smell. (scent is very powerful and if there are certain smells that calm you, use them!)
Oh yeah, and remember to breathe. Gnosis reminded me of this many times. Deep breaths help a lot.
You are getting stronger and you are much stronger than your H.
You can handle it.
Wherever you go, post a link or tell what board and I promise I'll keep up with you!
She's already there, on infidelty board.
Hey Hope, will check you out and watch you progress--I am SO GLAD you are going over there--they are TOUGH and GOOD and you will learn it and use it yourself--I swear I feel absolutely empowered by lurking over there.lol.
I do so get trying to have an "intact family" no matter what--I am coming out of my fog as well and realize that my S needs to see a strong woman and mother that sticks up for both his rights and her own!