What a long strange trip it's been

Thought I would start a NEW thread...SOMETHING HAS CHANGED...First HAPPY 4th to everyone and PLEASE play safe...
Tomorrow Son and I leave on our annual Father and son Retreat to Eureka Calf.....
This is my first week off from school in two months. I received a letter from the dean congratulating me on my 100% attendance...
I have to admit that something just does not feel right. I can't put my finger on it. I have No desire to buy fireworks this year, (no money anyway) and I am not really excited about our trip. I am sure I will have a great time once we get started�but I just have �that feeling��something in the world is out of balance.

OK READY FOR THIS��. W informed me that while son and I are gone she is moving BACK into our room.

She told me she is not ready for sex yet and it has nothing to do with me. She said she feels bad about her body, her lack of job� she is getting terrible headaches. I asked her if she has seen a doctor about the headaches. She told me that we don�t have the money. I told her money is not a problem when it comes to my family�s health and to go see one.
She also informed me that she does not like getting pat on her butt or groping...she�s said it�s her body and she feels like it is invading her space. (Not her exact words but I think you know what I mean.) She told me that the OM is over. I have nothing to worry about.
She also told me she does not like the pictures I put up of her in OUR bedroom, she likes the car pictures (my uncles 1956 Chevy that I hope to inherit) but wants to put back the picture she had there and will find another place to put up my car picture. I told her no problem as long as she moved back I don�t need the pictures to remind me of her. I hugged her and told her I loved her so much. She said she knows but has a hard time saying those words. I told her I know. (Only other person I ever heard her say it to was our son)
So how do I feel? Not sure... like I said I had this �feeling� before she told me about moving back. But I guess this is a step in the right direction. In 12 more days is our wedding anniversary...
Hard to believe what two years ago when this started at this time we were staying at our time share. (Sleeping is separate rooms) and I made her escargot for dinner and ate it myself� YUCK� The next anniversary I hiked to the top of bridal Vail falls in Yosemite just to get a double hernia...

This year��

Just read this in today's scope....

Pisces

Something is about to change, but you can't quite put your finger on what it is today. Meanwhile, your emotions are raw and you are tired. You're on edge because you cannot express what you feel. Instead of trying to describe your perspective now, keep in mind that actions speak louder than words. If necessary, you can always explain yourself later on.

Quote:

In 12 more days is our wedding anniversary...
Hard to believe what two years ago when this started at this time we were staying at our time share. (Sleeping is separate rooms) and I made her escargot for dinner and ate it myself� YUCK� The next anniversary I hiked to the top of bridal Vail falls in Yosemite just to get a double hernia...

Maybe the funny feeling means you are constipated.

When was the last time your funny feeling was an omen for something bad? And maybe, you should not try for the big display this anniversary. Doesn't sound like the last two were too successful. In the meantime, you may not have won any battles, but you are winning the war. So go have a good time with your son and when you come back, there will be a woman in your bed!

I agree with Lotus. Use this anniversary to show compassion and appreciation for your W decision to try to go down this road with you. Don't expect or plan for any monumental change in her behavior. I dont think think she is ready for an elaborate anniversary display yet. In fact she may be expecting/dreading it given your situation. Congrats these are steps in the right direction!

Thanks everyone,

Well that "feeling" is gone... In fact yesterday seems like a dream. I had to read it here today to make sure it really happened. And you are right about this anniv. If anything at all I may ask W what she would like to do.
YES I found the crack in her wall. Now what I need to do is keep on working on it SLOOOOWly until the wall is gone before she even realizes it.
I know "WE" are not there yet. But I do think this is a big step for wife. My next move is to get her to open up more, Talk to me more about HER feelings. AND I need to keep my mouth shut a little more about mine. These last two years I have expressed my feeling over and over I think she knows them by now.
Hope everyone had a great 4th. I counted this morning and son and I still have all our fingers. (I was missing a leg but then I remembered I had already lost that before last night

)
Well have to finish packing the jeep we leave in about 2 hours. Next time you hear from me we will have arrived.
Later
Doc

Doc,
I'm impressed with your W's honesty. I would fall out of my chair if my W ever said something so honest and intimate. Moving back in the bedroom is a significant step forward.

I would be thinking about how you can help her be more proud of her body. I know you have some physical limitations, but options still exist.

In my case, I'm the one that is more organized and disciplined, so provide the reminders to attend exercise classes twice per week. Once she's there, she's glad she came. I let her know about the tone I'm seeing develop from the classes.

I know that ultimately she's responsible for her own health and body image, but if there's something you can say or do (probably repeatedly), than provide the influence to move her in the direction she wants to go (teaching a child to ride a bicycle).

CL

Thanks CL,
Ya I have not left yet....

I think more on the iine of going for walks "togeter" after dinner..and such would be more in line. "reminding" her of her exercise class would actualy be a negative in her mind. Now everyonce in a while asking her if she is going today well that would be ok.

Ok got a go finish.. Son and W are STILL in bed..Need to get son up. The one good thing about son liking to sleep in is I can do homework durring the morning while he is sleeping..

Got ta gp
Doc

Been keeping an eye on ya', Doc. You have done yeoman's work, and your patience is off the charts. The W moving back into the BR is a huge milestone.

Keep up the good work, bro'. You make us proud!

Nocode.
"Been keeping an eye on ya'"

THANKS I need it. The trip went well so far. Weather her is not so great. Litle windy. We went out for a little but never made it to the water becasue the tide was too high and didn't want to get trapped on the wrong side of the dune.

I am having a trust issue with wife right now. I am going to try to just go with the flow..
Remember She has been a differant person for the last two years. You can forgive all you want but trust needs to be earned.

Doc

Baby steps. Gotta love 'em!

Hang in there Doc!

Thanks Rob.

Didn't sleep well last night. THis trust thing is really getting to me. I have time to get over it before We get home but the question "Why does she REALLY want to move back into our room"

Keep me tossing and turning all night. Does she reilize that I was ready to move on?
Is she just doing this to string me on a little longer? Or does she really want to work on us? If so why all these "rules" SOOOO Many questions... Am I analizing this too much?

Doc,
I've been following your posts for over a year.

My advice is don't worry about it. I don't think W moving back into your room is to string you along.

Where I fell apart in my reconciling is that my constant expecting the worse tainted my attitude towards my H. Those tainted emotions are difficult to hide and are easily perceived by the spouse. At this point "acting as if" everything is going great (even though you have concerns) will be the best thing for you to do to move forward in you M (if that is what you want). People follow strong leaders, especially if they are positive. Are you REALLY ready to move on (as you stated in the above post)? If so, then maybe you should seriously think about whether or not you want your W to move back into your room.

" Are you REALLY ready to move on" Yes I was. Move on from where we were. But now things have changed. My problem with the last few posts is that I am away from home right now and have too much time to THINK about it.

Don't worry I Only hoped in the past to be where I will be come saturday. (when I get Home).. I will be positive........Mot sure if I should be honest though and tell her how my trust has been shaken and it is something I need to work on

Thanks for following along... I have been back and fourth for so long

Doc

Perhaps instead of telling her how your trust has been shakened,which she must already know, you can try a different approach. Why don't you tell her how much you appreciate her honesty when she shares something difficult. Make her feel empowered by her good choices instead of reminding her of her bad ones ?

Originally Posted By: artemesia

Perhaps instead of telling her how your trust has been shakened,which she must already know, you can try a different approach. Why don't you tell her how much you appreciate her honesty when she shares something difficult. Make her feel empowered by her good choices instead of reminding her of her bad ones ?

YES YOU ARE RIGHT... I have been trying to do that but I do need to work on it more. It is hard when you try to be an adult and move on when deep down inside you want to "Rub their nose in it"
YES she knows My trust was hurt thanks for reminding me PLEASE keep the advice comming.Had a Great day today... Started off at Fern Canyon http://redwoods.info/showrecord.asp?id=476

Taught son how to BBQ hot dogs� Built a dam in the creek (Boys will be boys) then went 4 wheeling at the beach. Tonight we went out for all you can eat Chinese food. (Boy is I stuffed). I called home and wife was going though �Our Room� cleaning things up.
Feeling better about the changes to come but as Saffie pointed out to me I am a little scared I guess... So much for the confidence I have built... I AM having a hard time doing homework while on vacation...

Ya know, Doc, I think you have sex and love a little confused. I think your wife loves you. She just doesn't want sex anymore. It's not personal against you. It just is. Now, I know you don't want to accept that. And I can't say whether you have to or you don't, I just don't know. But I think you need to stop thinking that her lack of sexual desire is tied up with a lack of love. I don't think that is true. She has shown in a lot of ways that she does love you.

Lotus,

Yes in a way you are right. AND if the Affair never happened and she just started lacking the desire I would be more understanding. BUT the fact that the last person she did have / want to have sex with was the OM after 20 years marriage to me.....
I do find that hard to accept.

Don't worry... this is progress I will soon have her at least back on MY bed.

Doc,

It sounds a lot like you still have all that old baggage strapped to your back. Sex is the litmus test for you, she has to "prove" herself to you through sex. She has to put out for you to shut up. You are making sex with you for her ALL ABOUT THE OM, not about her and you.

I can't imagine ever wanting sex under such circumstances.

I cant imagine being OK with the statement she is not into sex even if there was no A in the past. Having to deal myself with a lot of "baggage", all I can say is that IMO "accepting" our spouses' emotions/feelings/reactions should not mean dismiss our own for what is going on.

Still, there is progress and granted all the work you have put into this M, I am happy for you and hope it continues...
K

Originally Posted By: oldtimer

Doc,

It sounds a lot like you still have all that old baggage strapped to your back. Sex is the litmus test for you, she has to "prove" herself to you through sex.

Sorry OT But that is the way it is........

As long as you make sex with W about OM, I think your sex life is pretty doomed.

And, as long as you continue to accept a sexless M, I think your M is pretty doomed, especially now that you are back in school, which is extremely hard on any M.

So, unless you are able to both move forward by making a sexual, loving R about you and W and the future, rather than about OM and the past, and to stop choosing to live in a sexless M, then, I really don't see much happening for you.

Of course, I don't really see a successful sexual R between you and anyone unless you change your views about the role of sex in a relationship. So, maybe you really are better off working out your problems with sex with your W.

Time to reread PM.

I do have insecurity issues

Well by DB Friends (and you too OT LOL),
This is the last night of my �vacation� I AM nervous about the changes coming. I have been working for so long for this next step and now that it is here I will admit I am anxious. But I am sure wife is also. I will act �as if�, I will stay positive, I will encourage wife in her self esteem. AND I WILL NOT BRING UP THE PAST OR the OM��..

Good luck Doc! I'm rootin' for ya!

Thanks Mr Bond,
(been reading up on your sitch.. Are you still togeather?
Well We are off.. On my way home
Later

take it easy Doc. No pressure on W. It's been sometime you've been in the same BR, so give yourself and your W some time to acclimate.

Originally Posted By: artemesia

take it easy Doc. No pressure on W. It's been sometime you've been in the same BR, so give yourself and your W some time to acclimate.

You are so right.And I will.. Well I am home. Wife gave me a kiss when we got here. Nothing was mentioned about moving back but when I went into our room to put my bags away... The pictures have been re arranged, Girly stuff is now on my bathroom sink, and her pillows are back on her side of the bed.
The only thing I am going to tell her is "I know this is a big step for you and a admire your honesty So now it�s time for me to be honest. It's been awhile since I have slept with someone, Promise me if I snore or grind my teeth or whatever.. Nudge me or wake me up so I will stop.�

What a thoughtful husband!

I guess I do somethings right

Good night everyone

Morning everyone,

Well I was tired from the trip, Told wife I was going to bed and to promise me if I snored to wake me up so I would stop. She told me that she will but if I continued she would go back to her office just to get some sleep.
I went to bed and was asleep by the time she got there. THEN about 2 am it sounded like someone was trying to start a chain saw... WIFE WAS SNORNG... I just smiled to myself and went back to sleep.....About 4 am she started again.
When I woke up at 5am my normal time she was still in OUR room. I took my shower and closed the bedroom door. So we made it one night.
I am not going to say anything to W about her snoring. I figure she already has a low self esteem about not having a job and being overweight� but being unemployed, overweight AND being a snorer will not inspirer her to be intimate someday�.
Later
Doc

good for you Doc. True love and compassion. Put away the hurt and your best foot forward... it's wonderful. I know it's so difficult because we're the ones appearing to put in so much of the work, but she is trying in her own way.... good luck to you!!!!

Thanks artemesia
,

I must have checked this site 20 times today...
Today went good. When wife woke up I did ask her how she was doing and she said she was tired. She can�t figure out why she gets a good night sleep but is still tired in the morning. (She does need to lose some weight).
Today she went out and bought some hiking shoes and a new walking stick. She plans to do some hiking with son and her GF next week. Even though she had good shoes already I figure if it inspires her then great. (Little does she know that when son and I were on our trip and doing some hiking... he said he likes hiking with me because we just hike. He said �Mom always has to stop and read EVERYTHING in the signs�)
But that was all I said about last night. I am going to wait until tomorrow or Tuesday to maybe say something like..."Well how is sleeping with your Husband going? Wasn�t that bad after all was it?"
I AM NOT going to push things but Thursday is our Anniversary...21 years...all I have planned is a card AND maybe a little Cuddling?

Quote:

When wife woke up I did ask her how she was doing and she said she was tired. She can�t figure out why she gets a good night sleep but is still tired in the morning. (She does need to lose some weight).

Doc, that and your report of her snoring are classic symptoms of Sleep Apnea. If these are or become chronic, she might need to see her physician about it.

WOW Nocode,

Potential Health Risks

Heart Disease (3 times more likely)
Strokes (4 times more likely)
Hypertension
Diabetes
Decreased Sex Drive
Depression
Headaches
Weight Gain
Unnecessary Fatigue

5 out of 9.. How do I go about talking to her about this?

I don't want anybody to get me wrong and my W health is inportant to me. But should I wait a little until our current sitch settles a little before I talk to her about this?

Update on Doc letting go of the past. I did a search on my computer and DELETED every E-mail and word doc. I ever wrote to W about our sitch.

Getting ready for night 2
later
Doc

Doc,

If she frequently experiences sleepiness or fatigue during the daytime, despite giving herself enough hours for sleep at night, then I would hope she would want to do something about that on her own. Listen to her and observe her, and eventually you will see a pattern of tiredness. You can then begin to gently coax her to see her doctor.

If nothing else, a lack of sound, true sleep seriously affects one's quality of life.

I know. I have Sleep Apnia, and have been managing it since 2003. The health risks are no joke.

One other thing to be wary of is if you notice her ceasing breathing while she's asleep. That is when Sleep Apnea becomes dangerous. It starves the brain of oxygen when it is supposed to be repairing itself. Over time this can lead to the more dire consequences you stated above.

Fortunately she has moved back into the MBR with you where you will have a better opportunity to listen to/observe her. So there's another good thing about her moving back -- if she does turn out to have Apnea, this move could potentially save her life.

You might be surprised how many people suffer from Sleep Apnea, including people you know, work with or socialize with. It's a lot more common than one would think.

Good point NCB,
My mother has it. It is most common in people who carry excess weight, although you don't have to be heavy in order to have it. Now she is doing much better- her blood pressure went down and she feels so much better.

Maybe the next time your wife talks about her sleep and not feeling rested (maybe try to bring it up without being pushy) you could say that you recently read something about it, or a friend of yours mentioned it to you, and that perhaps she should consider having that checked. Leave it as that- plant the seed in her mind and see if she runs with it on her own. She may be rationalizing right now that her lack of energy is due to her weight......

Great Advise Arte,

Next time she says she is tired or about her headaces I will bring it up.

Night 2 and no snoring this time..(Or I slept through it) I did catch myself listening for her breathing a few times.

Stange that the "feeling" of being locked out of W life seems to be disapearing. Before we seemed to be making progress but every night when she disapeared into "her room" to sleep it made me feel like we were back to step one.
Well I need to get ready for school. After a week off it is going to take a little getting used to agian. But some how with wife back on our room things are differant..like I regained part of my life.
I also find it hard to read here others stiches that are where I was..Like I NEVER want to be there agian and reading their posts brings it all back. One other thing.. some of the letters I deleted were from retro..those brought back GOOD memories

Originally Posted By: Dr LOve

But that was all I said about last night. I am going to wait until tomorrow or Tuesday to maybe say something like..."Well how is sleeping with your Husband going? Wasn�t that bad after all was it?"

Personal opinion, but I would not say this to W. Sounds a bit condescending. I would just mention that you really like having her back in the bedroom. How much more comfortable having her next to you feels.

Also, her moving back to the bedroom after the time away might be a great way to bring up concerns of the sleep apnea. With the adjusting to someone else in the bed again, you are more likely to sleep lightly and wake up to subtle noises. That and her mentioning being tired after enough hours is a good way to bring up the subject.

Glad all is going well you.

"Personal opinion, but I would not say this to W. Sounds a bit condescending. I would just mention that you really like having her back in the bedroom. How much more comfortable having her next to you feels."

This is why I love this place....Yes you are right...I am a person that sometimes does things "in the spur of the moment" and sometimes I write down thoughts here that "at the moment" sounded good. I do this on purpose becasue of people like you giving me great feedback. (Thanks) but also when I read them the next day sometimes they do not sound so great to me either,

With that said I am not mentioning anything yet...

It is really sad that when things like this happen (affairs) that little jokes and teasing take on new meanings. And something that may have been said 5 years ago jokingly when we were fooling around� �Ya well you should have married your old BF� Now can�t be said� Another example is I WAS thinking about telling W �I have a confession to make. I have been sleeping with this beautiful woman now for two days and it feels really nice. Don�t worry we have not had sex but I am afraid it is only a matter of time�
BUT then again bringing up �sleeping with someone� NOW has a new meaning.
I will admit I am holding back and I know this is what I need to do. But it is kind of like getting a new car and having to drive SLOW for the first 500 miles��.braking it in...

Day (night) 3

All is well... W did snore again last night... But apparently I am not snoring or grinding my teeth. (A past issue with her) becasue every morning so far she is still in OUR bed.
I have been thinking (I know it is dangerous) but maybe this year I need to do a 180 on our anniversary and NOT do anything.

Some good news... Well W was talking to one of her GF about me going to school and what I was taking. The GF later was talking to her husband about me and my classes... the GF's husband who has worked for P.G & E (pacific gas and electric) told her how they now subcontract their I.T work.(computer stuff) out. When he got to work the next day he was talking to the head of the I.T department about me and he said as soon as I graduate and am ready to bring my application straight to him. In other words I would not have to go through the normal process of personnel.

So I guess this is another reason I need to complete my schooling... to be honest it is hard. I mean going to work when you get off work you can forget about the day and have a beer. With school. You go to school all day and then come home and have homework. This week is really busy at school with two tests AND I have a project that involves writhing a computer assembly manual. I have to write a paper on how to build a computer and then at the end of this Mod. I am supposed to bring in someone. (Wife) and she is going to build a computer off of my written instructions.
Well its 4 am here and I need to get some last minute SCHOOL work done before I am off to school again. Today wife and son are going hiking with W�s GF
Later
Doc

Morning Everyone..

W is still on OUR bedroom..

She went hiking with son yesterday while I was in school. She had a great time. She seems more relaxed these days. I have been doing my best to act "as if" about her returning to our room. But for the last two morning I have returned to giving her a goodbye kiss on the cheek before I leave.(she is sleeping).
I have been trying to stay on my side of the bed. WAY on my side of the bed.. but last night durring her sleep (I guess) W actualy rolled over next to me.

Originally Posted By: Dr LOve

I have been doing my best to act "as if" about her returning to our room. But for the last two morning I have returned to giving her a goodbye kiss on the cheek before I leave.(she is sleeping).

I need to preface my comment with a disclaimer that my advice may be way off base since my situation ended up in D, not reconciliation. Couldn't be my fault though, LOL.

Isn't the "As If" attitude primarily for those situations where the WAS is doing crazy things or trying to instigate an argument? Doc, I would think act of moving back into the bedroom should be responded to favorably. And the new sleeping arrangement (while you want to move slowly on the heavy physical action stuff) is a perfect oppurtunity for snuggling or spooning. Maybe some physical closeness without any pressure to go further will help move things along. Does she respond negatively if you put your arm around her? Baby steps. Enjoy the closeness without focusing on the act of sex. You should get an idea from her body language if it is a go / no go.

Originally Posted By: Dr LOve

I have been trying to stay on my side of the bed. WAY on my side of the bed.. but last night durring her sleep (I guess) W actualy rolled over next to me.

That's a good sign. Reciprocate.

Originally Posted By: Dr LOve

I have been doing my best to act "as if" about her returning to our room. But for the last two morning I have returned to giving her a goodbye kiss on the cheek before I leave.(she is sleeping).

My understanding of "As If" is acting in a way that promotes a desired outcome, even when our feelings are otherwise. In my situation, I Act As If I'm a H, even though I'm having my doubts and mistrust.

Your situation is ripe with potential. Do your part to move things along (positive leadership). Make it safe for her to be more intimate.

CL

Hope & CL,

Maybe I need to clarify what I mean by �As if�� Ok my natural instinct would be to �Jump her bones�...if ya know what I mean.
So my just letting her get used to being back �and acting "as IF" well it�s kind of likes a stray cat� The cat shows up and does not trust you. If you were to try to pick it up it would run away� So ya need to assimilate the cat to your presents� You put out some water and food and walk away� The cat eats and drinks but keeps an eye out for you� Then after a little while when you put the food and water out you stand there... the cat will eat and drink but still keep looking at you to see what you are going to do... later when the cat is comfortable that you are not going to hurt it. It lets you pet it but still will not let you pick it up the after it is comfortable with your petting�..It lets you pick it up� THEN you can�t get rid of the cat if you tried�..

Well I put out the food, I have now began to stand there��I am getting ready to �pet� W

Things take time�.. We have NOT slept together for almost 3 years�. Some marriages have not even lasted that long

Happy anniversary to ME

Doc,
That clears it up--good example and approach.

CL

Talked to W twice on the phone today. No mention of our Annv. From her. I was thinking about stopping after school and picking up some Roses band just giving them to her..telling her Happy A and giving her a kiss and then.... Maybe "as if" Or....

Good luck to you Doc.

Thanks Mr. Bond,

But... It may be a little pre mature... On the ride home in traffic I started thinking.(I know it's dangerous) but in the last 21 years... I have given W a present and card every year EVEN the year if the Affair. For the first 5 years of our marriage wife did the same not nothing ever since. I AM NOT going to get her the flowers. SHE knows what day it is. When I got home from school NOTHING...its ok I am not acting hurt or mad I will admit I am dis appointed. BUT I have my "as if" hat on. The day is still here Maybe she might say something later... YES I know moving back to our room was a big thing...Kind of.... But don't ANY of you think that she should have said SOMETHING? Again I feel like she moved back just to appease me and NOT truly work on our marriage.
Do not get me wrong... This post may sound like I am mad but I am not�.just a little disappointed.

I need to go work on MIL house for a while and then it is back home to study for three tests tomorrow.
When I return I WILL log back on to see what any of you have to say... So PLEASE give me the 2X4s if you think I need them but really HOW HARD IS IT TO SAY �Happy Anniversary�?

Ok I have changed my clothes and am off to MIL...

Feedback People Please....Lets crash the internet with your responses..

Doc

Why don't you just ask her? Have you ever told her how much you've felt that you've given for the anniversaries past and she barely acknowledges it?

Rather than holding it all in, you could just go straight to the source. Or you could talk to your MIL about it and see what she says. You're stockpiling resentment and that's not good.

You know, this is one of my pet peeves. You are a nice guy and do nice things, like bring flowers and a card on the anniversary. She is, for whatever reason, not into doing that stuff (which does not mean that she doesn't like GETTING it, she just may not be a GIVING kind of person. So, instead of her changing into a nice, giving person like you, you change into a not-giving person like her. So the situation gets worse, not better. I think if you felt like buying the flowers and making the anniversary special you should have. Things are only special is someone goes to the trouble of making them special. The day is not special by itself. And if you wait for the not giving person to do it, you will wait forever. Don't wait for her. Do it because YOU want to, because YOU want your anniversary to be special.

Doc,
Remember--positive leadership. We are to influence the change we want to see. On the ride home in traffic, you could have switched on the radio or your Ipod, to get away from your negative thinking.

It's hard to know why she didn't acknowledge your anniversary. I don't know what her pattern is with this sort of thing. You sure got yourself in a state of mind, that you wanted her to say it.

CL

Doc,
It seems like my emotions start to surface the closer I get to my W--I think it's a combination of fear, anger, and frustration. GAL and being roommates is much easier.

CL

Thanks Everyone...

Well I do think the "as if" worked. I know what you mean lotus BUT sometimes we do not appreciate something until we lose it.
So like I said I just acted "as it" and went to MIL house to work on her Garage door opener. After I was there for about an hour I got a call from W on my C phone. She asked how long I Waa going to be I asked why and she said becasue if I was going to be there for a while she wanted to bring son over and have an Anny. Drink with me, Son and MIL. I said I will be here a while and to make a long story short... (Ya right) she did come over... we had drinks and she came over to me and said. "Happy 21 years I know it has not been easy"

Some other things have happened over the weekend that I am not going to get into but I will leave you all with this...

WIFE AND I ML LAST NIGHT... no that is not a typo

Note: After 3 years Doc still remembered how

P.S Lotus�..We had the Annv. Drinks on thrusday, Friday on the way home from school I did pick up some Red Roses

Doc

Doc,
I am VERY VERY happy for you

Our sign says family life will get better this next 2 weeks...
xxx
K

Congrats!!

Sounds like it was about the two of you, no third party involved :-)

WHOOO HOOOO!!!!!!

That is fantastic!! Glad to hear it.

Doc,

WOW!!! I have goose bumps! I'm so happy for you. I think it has now been proven...you can do anything you set your mind to! I hope she enjoyed it and will do it again.

I am so happy for you right now, bro'. I take my hat off to you for your unbelievable patience and diligence. Such a long trying road with many, many leagues through the desert to now achieve your dream. The draught is at an end at last! Let the rains fall!

Thanks NoCode,

But NOW the real "patience" Starts. Yes she opened the door and let me in. But now again is a critical time. I would so much like to "throw a party" but If I get too crazy she will think "what have I done?" Who is this guy?
I feel like I went back in time... Three years to be exact, like a "do over".
I had some things to do in the morning and left wife asleep. Then that feeling of awkward ness...like when you meet someone at a party and slept with them...how you feel the next morning when you had to face them......
But I put on my �As if� hat again and just acted like nothing has changed. I did not want to go back to the clingy Doc I used to be. (Had a typo there first wrote �clingy Dic� but that would have worked also).
IT�s not over yet... Then again I guess it is never really over. It will always be work to keep a marriage exciting and re charged�
Got ta get to school� Later
Doc

YAHOOOOO!!!

You're right Doc - there is plenty more work ahead of you, and you don't want to come on too strong and scare her off. But on the other hand - what a terrific step in the right direction!

Makes my day just to hear about it! HIGH FIVE!

Doc,
Congratulations on being rewarded for your efforts. I think we're both in the Act As If club at this time.

CL

OMG DOC
WHAT ROB SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember to be patient.

JAK

Thanks JoJo and everyone...

Things are still going great in �Doc�s house� Have not had a repeat of that night... but hey I wasn�t expecting it that night either.
I think that analogy I used to explain my �as if� to CL is a good one. You know the wild cat one. AND I used it again the day after...you see the wild cat got comfortable around me and even jumped up in my lap. AND by not holding it there and making a big deal about it I am sure it will know that it is safe to be around me and it will happen again.
Tonight after I got back from MIL house I told wife �I know you went to curves today and had your exercise but I thought it would be nice to go for a walk �(little conversation before we had about her feeling overweight and being unattractive�I figured I could get her to excises without telling her to by going for a walk WITH ME)
She smiled and said �but the bachelorette starts in a few minutes and I don�t want to miss it� I told her that�s Ok... I just thought it would be nice to start going on walks after dinner while the weather is nice.
She said �That would be nice. Let�s start tomorrow�

I am on a roll��..

JoJo and the others that have my E-mail� If you want to hear a longer version about what lead up to that �other night� drop me an E-mail�. It was a series of events that just lead up to things working out...Almost like we were being guided by a higher power�if ya know what I mean

You need my love baby oh so bad
You're not the only one I've ever had
And if I say I wanna set you free
Don't you know you'll be in misery
They call me Doctor Love
They call me Doctor Love
(Calling Doctor Love)
I've got the cure you're thinkin' of
(Calling Doctor Love)
And even though I'm full of sin
In the end you'll let me in
You'll let me through, there's nothin' you can do
You need my lovin' don't you know it's true
So will you please get on your knees
There are no bills, there are no fees
Baby I know what your problem is
The first step of the cure is a KISS

Got ta get to school but wanted to update..

Well it's been over a week and W is still in our bed. Last night before bed W told me I was starting to "grind my teeth"
So last night I wore my mouth gaurd.(which I hate) anyway about 2 am I hear wife calling out to me. "Doc (not my real name) help me Doc"..She was sleeping.. I said "I'm here don't worry what do you want me to do?" she then woke up and said she had a bad dream about the racoons in our yard had gotten into the house. "I said no worries I'm here to protect you...."

She was dreaming about ME....

IT's Soooooo Hard to be patient� So much stress right now can�t wait for this day to be over

IT"S FRIDAY.................

Well B+ on one test and C+ on the other but who cares... IT"S FRIDAY

UPDATE....

Well no "replay" yet of the other night but things is really good. I can see W is getting more at ease around me. She was talking to me about going to yoga and maybe joining this kind of spiritual group. Now it's not religion but like a meditation / self centering group. I think this is also a big step for W becasue she always refused to try any self help books or self improvement things. Even though I am a little worried about money and she does need to go get a job. I did encourage her to go. I did ask if it was a male female group becasue she heard about it at her "curves" gym. (An all female gym). I asked becasue I thought this would be a great way for US to do something together. She said she thinks so but they meet in the morning. This is too bad because I am in school at that time.
Last night during the night I did put my arm around her and cuddled a little but it was hot (temp wise) so not for long.
I have to be really careful right now because I know I am my own worst enemy. I need to NOT assume any negative things. Some people are telling me that If I had exposed the A three years ago I would have saved me this entire wait. She may have come back to me sooner but then again I figure that if I had exposed it then it may have been over sooner with her leaving me. NOT to mention that since it seems like we are working things out� I do not have to explain anything to family or friends why I took her back.
I figure it took 19 years of marriage to screw things up� it took three years to get back on track.. And hopefully will only take one year to rebuild

Need some advice....

This morning W looked tired. I asked her if she was and she said yes. I asked if I kept her awake last night and she said yes my heavy breathing and when I "moved up against her".

I am not taking this as a negative. (Although it would be easy to do so)... Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

BTW when I did put my arm around her last night I made SURE I did not come into contact with any of her �special places� so she did not think I was trying to get intimate.. I just wanted to �cuddle�

Doc

Kodak moment....

W came home with some flowers to plant out infront of our house. I can't remember the last time W bought flowers or really showed intrest in our yard. She wanted me to help her plant them...

DOc,
If it was hot that could be what she means. I wouldn't take it personally. Just remember what you said, We can all be our own worst enemies and I know I am no different.
Have a great day
JAK

Originally Posted By: Dr LOve

I asked becasue I thought this would be a great way for US to do something together. She said she thinks so but they meet in the morning. This is too bad because I am in school at that time.

Hey Doc, Remember how one of the big lessons of DBing is that you need to grow as a person in order to bring your stronger, happier self into the relationship? Same goes for her - if this is a way for her to explore some "self help" type activities, have the confidence in yourself and in her to let her go do that on her own.

Originally Posted By: Dr LOve

Some people are telling me that If I had exposed the A three years ago I would have saved me this entire wait.

That and four dollars will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Don't let ANYBODY suck you into playing the ol' Coulda Shoulda Woulda Game - TOTAL waste of time. You are where you need to be, right now, and that's all that matters.

Originally Posted By: Rob1231

Hey Doc, Remember how one of the big lessons of DBing is that you need to grow as a person in order to bring your stronger, happier self into the relationship? Same goes for her - if this is a way for her to explore some "self help" type activities, have the confidence in yourself and in her to let her go do that on her own.

YES... you are Spot on as usual... Thanks for pointing this out to me. I am still learning.

Having a down day today... sitting in traffic my stupid mind started wandering and wishing it was 10 years ago when I thought I was happy and married...

But I am also stressed about three finals coming up.
One of the finals was that I had to write a book on how to assemble a computer. AND tomorrow I am to have W come to school and assemble a computer with my book....

Speaking of books I need to get back to them
Later

Doc,
that's the hardest part for me during this process: keeping my emotions in check. Not allowing my thoughts drift away to dark places. After a while, it's not a matter of them and us. It becomes a matter of US and/vs US. So, skip to the next day, focus on your finals (Good Luck) and as I am trying to convince myself as well : "enjoy the ride", my friend...
K

Feelin frisky today

B + on my network final
A on my Hardware final
B on my Commputer assembly book. (that wife used to assemble computer that went great BTW)

MANGO MARGARITAS Tonight....

Oh ya and no homework this weekend... That means I can do some "home work"... if ya know what i mean..

Doc

Did W have any comments to you regarding the instruction manual you set out for her? Although it was a grade for you - she put herself on the line as well so (initially) I hope there was words of praise and affection flowing towards her...

YES DayBre. But thanks for keeping an eye on me..and KEEP those recomendations comming....

I did thank W and tell her what a fantastic job she did. I even told a little white lie... I told her that other people saw her working on my Computer and commented on how fast and well she did it....
When I got home yesterday, she did ask how my tests went. I had the Finals Plus the instructor let me take a makeup test, the test I took after my Father and son vacation was a disaster. I was out of sync with studding and was having a bad day and only got a 69% (D+). He let me take that test again (94 questions) and I passed this time with 96% (A). She was really impressed. DO NOT get me wrong I did not do it to impress her� I did it for me...but that was a nice side benefit. BTW the final I took yesterday had 184 questions�.
Later yesterday wife came to me to discuss fixing son�s computer so he can play newer games on it. W is great at looking things up on computers and figuring things out. So she came to me to discuss what she was planning on doing to it. And I �Recommended some changes� because of what I have learned and I told her some things that she would need to do to accomplish what she was planning to do. And she ended up saying �wow you know allot more about this stuff than me�
This has been a side issue in our marriage... a little with my self esteem and actually a little with hers. W was the �smart� technical person and I was the �Good Labor orientated� person... in other words the �Ditch digger�. I always felt that w kind of looked down on be like she was a little better than I. Not that she did not appreciate my �manual labor� but still �..She was better than me�.
Looks like I am changing the tables�.
One thing I am starting to see and have a problem with. I feel wife is finding things to do like work on son�s computer and yoga and other stuff to keep her occupy BUT also to avoid. Looking for a job.
This is one thing I have learned in one of my classes� a lot of times when WE say �we don�t have enough time� the real reason is because we end up doing things to avoid doing what we SHOULD be doing�.
Well got ta go this is the first weekend I don�t have any homework� BUT my uncle called yesterday and wants me to come over to his ranch and help him fix fences�. (I better inherit his 56 Chevy)

Later
Doc

Wow CL,
For some reason I went back to my first Post here.....

Do you reilize YOU were the first person to respond to me?

Has it been THAT long?????

(My first post)
My w is seeing OM. It's her old boyfriend. We have been married for 18 years and now she tells me she has fallen out of love with me.
We are seeing seperate coucl. we have a joing meeting next weds.
She calls the OM everyday.( he is married and lives out of state.
I know it's 90 % her and 10 % him but he calls her. I have been giving her space to work things out.
I am taking my 10 year old son on aa week long camping trip. On the day we leave I am going to give m W a letter telling her when we get back she has to decide if she wants to save the marraige or not. I will tell hershe cannot contact him anymore or it's over. I have been keeping the affair to myself but Will let the family and freinds in on it if she refused to stop talikng to him.
What do ya all think about my plan.
_________________________
And if I claim to be a wise man, well
It surely means that I don't know

#1040017 - 05/03/07 11:27 PM Re: trying to hold out [Re: Dr LOve]
Concerned_Listener
Member

Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1409
Loc: Ohio Husband,
How long has the EA been going on?

How long have you been considering an ultimatum?

What is the quality of your R with your W? Has she stated that she wants a D?

Do you know what she's unhappy about? What problems is she running away from?

Have you diligently been DB, and working at improving your personal relationships, and doing things that you enjoy?

I need these questions answered initially, before I can form an opinion about your plan for an ultimatum. I want to make sure that you've done everything you can, and that you've given your W enough time to work things out.

CL
_________________________
CL 50 W 50
M 17 yrs.
07'-09' GAL
10' Acting As If

"Like Jesus, face sin with both grace and truth."

----Boundaries in Marriage
For those of you that do not know my sitch�. I Never did expose the A... It has been a Looooooooog Road with a lot of side tracks�� but here it is 3 years later and we are still together.
W has moved back into our room�. And things are 150 % better than they were back then. We have made so much progress� W still has her self esteem issues and menopause issues AND a little MLC thrown in there but NOW I know. Now I can try to help her get through these�. Three years ago I was blind to this, I thought everything was fine�

Congratulations, Doc. Three years is a long time indeed. You're one of the kindest most patient fella's here on these boards and you deserve every bit of happiness you worked so hard for.

Doc,
Did you end up giving her an ultimatum or at least let her know what you knew?

CL

Originally Posted By: Concerned_Listener

Doc,
Did you end up giving her an ultimatum or at least let her know what you knew?

CL

I tried several "feeble attempts"... but no never did put my foot down.

As for letting her know EVERYTHING I know... No... She knows I found the pictures... she knows I was trying to trace him down.
She doesn�t know I found him.

IT'S FRIDAY....

Where did this week go? My grades for this last mod 5 A's and a B in Net+ I started my new Mod at school this week.
LAN Wiring, Net+ II and XP. Everyone said that XP in this mod was the hardest. I Studied my a$$ off and on the test today I got a B... BUT I concentrated too much on this class and my other one Net+ II I got a C on the test. But hey if I would have studied more...
I am going into school this weekend to try to get a head start on next week�s work.
I was in a pretty good mood when I got home and when I came in the house W was at the kition counter making a sandwich. I whistled down the hall at her and she turned around and said " I hate that� I said what? She said �cat calls�� I said �ok I�m sorry... I guess that just means I will have to come over and give you a hug then� and I did.
W is not in a good mood today. Son starts school in two weeks and last night she mentioned about going out and start looking for work, I know she is NOT looking forward to that.
Anyway I did not let that affect my mood�went out and worked on son�s train set for a little while...

So Note to self�. DO NOT whistle AT WIFE�..

Doc,

Possibly W is very worried about putting herself on the job market again and was sensitive because of that. From my experience years (seems like eons) ago, my barriers were up higher than usual when I was actively searching...

Agreed....

I will give her space...support... encouragement
One thing that I have learned it my attitude is MINE and nobody controls it but me...

I have also learned when speaking with W when trying to help to NOT TELL HER WHAT SHE SHOULD DO....but try to ask open ended questions to help her decide what she should do.

Instead of "you should look for at least a temp job"
Instead things like "Have you thought about looking into some type of temp job?

PISCES
I received some sage advice a long time ago. It was something along the lines of�if you do right by natural law, ie do all that you can to do what is naturally right by all in a situation, then the right result will eventually show itself. This is all good as long as everyone else in the picture is playing by the same rules. You may recently have felt stepped on by a certain person or process while doing all that you thought was just and right. Remember that the universe takes notes, including recognizing the purity of intentions. Doing the right thing does not equal being forever naive and always putting yourself in a position of being hurt, it means you are earning some serious Soul stripes and the pay off dear Pisces will come. As Mercury in your house of relationships finds your destiny effortlessly, you get a chance to speak your peace and set a certain record straight.

A bit of justice is soon to be served�. by you. It is by all means more than ok to enjoy it.

Quote:

I have to be really careful right now because I know I am my own worst enemy. I need to NOT assume any negative things. Some people are telling me that If I had exposed the A three years ago I would have saved me this entire wait. She may have come back to me sooner but then again I figure that if I had exposed it then it may have been over sooner with her leaving me. NOT to mention that since it seems like we are working things out� I do not have to explain anything to family or friends why I took her back.
I figure it took 19 years of marriage to screw things up� it took three years to get back on track.. And hopefully will only take one year to rebuild

I have been away on holiday for the last few weeks Doc so I didn't see this until now. I just wanted to say that whatever advice folks give you about how to deal with your sitch, YOU are the one walking in your shoes...........and personally I think you have grown so much as a person taking the route you have. I think you should be proud of your achievements and ignore what others say you should have done. It is what it is.....and at the moment it is pretty good, no?

Doc,
Saffie is right i think!
Things are going pretty good aren't they?

Great job on those tests!
JAK

Hey Safie and JoJo...Long time.......

Hope things are ok with both of ya

Well things just keep chugging along here. Every day a little better. W is STILL in our room. Have not had another "occasion" since that one night. I am getting better at NOT taking things personally. Of letting go. W has been doing little things like buying me things for snacks to take to school. My 35 year class reunion is coming up this weekend (I just found out about it last week) W actually wanted to go... She has not been to the last two class reunions I went to. AND she did not want me to go to her last one. BUT.... IT's $75.00 a person so we can't afford it.
W is talking more and more about going back to work. I am not pushing it and when something does come up I will give her all the encouragement I can. Another surprise... W is taking son clothes shopping for school. She is taking him to the next city over where my school is. She wanted to know what time was my lunch and suggested that her and son stop and pick up lunch for me and they and we can eat together. Another little thing... Yesterday when I got home from school I was leaning against the counter in the kitchen looking at the paper. W came in and asked how my test was. Not thinking I said "I am not going to tell you until I get a kiss" and she came over and put her hands on my chest and gave me a kiss..... It is amazing how empowering you feel when you say what you want and get it without begging.

I got a B+ BTW

Hey Dr.L,
Sorry didint see you post about a month a go!! Don't mean to jump in your thread. Thanks for responding. Havent been on here a whole lot the past few days been in a funk my I'll link my new thread!! Anyway S is back home with grandparents and has been away for 3 weeks which sucks, but he's havving fun.
I just not sure what to do anymore.

Our Anniversary is coming up at the end of this month and probbly going to do nothing much, but a card. Anyway I though of asking W out for coffee well to find to see what's going on with our D and if were doing meadition. I also have a family member who might be sick...

We dont talk a whole lot( but I miss chatting with W and don't know if any of my DB is helping) I'm still keeping busy with things for myself it's tough this month. Anyway thanks for posting sorry for interupting your thread.

I also hope all is well with you. Talk later Hope. Need Hope Thanks

Or, it's amazing how you get what you want when you don't beg asking for it...

I'd say you, W, and your M can't afford not to go to the reunion. It is a big deal that she wants to go. Make it happen.

Hope, will try to get to your post later...

Hey OT...

Boy all my long time friends are still around. (Almost said old friends).

I made a mistake... the reunion is not until NEXT weekend (21st) so there still is time�
W is in charge of our finances and I really think she is thinking of a way of making it happen. But money is getting REAL short. There was a mistake on my Unemployment check. Here in California things are so bad that when you call their office all you get is a recorded message. Not even a "for English press 1" But the guy at my TAA program. (School grant becasue my job went overseas) gave me a special phone number to call and I get right in. They fixed it and my next check should be ok but we still had to borrow $500.00 from MIL to make our mortgage payment this month.
Even with money short wife is trying to rebuild son's computer. Thanks to my schooling I did find that she did not do something�s right. I found that in the past I would have acted more like a parent to her telling her what she did wrong. But this time I just filled in the blanks for her and then praised her for what a great job she did.
Things I try to keep in mind:
When dealing with your spouse... do not take them for granted. Do not say or do anything to them that you would not do to a stranger.
The same goes for your kids. Treat them like you do their friends.
Well its 4:00am need to get some last minute homework done before school. 1/2 Day today then Lunch with my W..

. (And son

)

Hey, what's up, Doc?

Checkin' in on ya'. Hope all's well.

Hey NoCode,

Thanks for checking in on me. It helps a lot to have a �buddy� who cares.
I AM STILL ALIVE,

School a little tougher this mod, The ONLY two days this year in calif. The temps get above 100 (104 on Tuesday) my jeep blew it's radiator on the way home from school , Of course I replaced it a year and a half ago and the warranty was only for a year�Had to use my P/U to get to school and then It started stalling at stop signs. THEN wife�s van needed brake work. (I could do it myself If I had time) so on Wednesday�. 2001 Jeep Down for the count. 1990 P/u running like Cr@p..2003 van in the shop� I was down to my 1968 mustang that has a hard time starting�..And that was just this week�. But� wife is still our room; she has been going to her gym. (Curves a woman gym) and started Yoga.and yesterday after school I replaced my radiator. Finals are this week so I will be hitting the books HARD.

You are going to have to wait until next week. (My first week off from school) to get a LOOOOOOOOG update.
But briefly.......Things are moving ahead slooooow ... But NO back slides...

little update,

well I am in the final streach or this mod at school. finals week... Then I have a week off..Jeep is fixed..AND yesterday while walking past wife down the hall she playfully poked me in the belly. This is another first...to playfully touch me.

"and the wall came tumbling down"...No push for intamacy this week too much studying but next............

Good to hear that things are well (other than the vehicle situation, of course, and even that appears to be improving, right?)

Hang in there, and good luck with the exams, and keep us informed on how you continue to fare.

Prayers and blessings.

Doc,

What No codes said.

Things are looking good for you.

JAK

THANKS EVERYONE

my last finals are thrusday and then a week off.....

Good luck with your test Doc!

JAK

Hey Doc... Hope you are well, haven't been on here in ages...

Looks like you ARE doing good, and that's wonderful.

"mr. Student"...

Love and blessings,

T

Ok ya all ready?

Grab some Ice tea (or a beer) and sit back��.

WOW school was really tuff this last mod. Had toooo many hard classes together. Each class has three chapters from the book we go over during the week and then we get tested on those chapters. LAN wiring was not a problem. I am a very mechanical guy. ANYTHNG I take apart I can get back together. BUT� Network II and XP were hard. I found if I concentrated on one class to pass the weekly tests the other was hurt. I actually failed a test in my network class. The problem was that the instructor told us that we need to study the homework questions more. Well until then I was getting B�s on my tests so I figured I would concentrate on the homework questions�. BIG mistake� the test only had about 3 questions from the homework.
I felt like I was going to a BBQ with baking utensils. The instructor would not let me take a makeup test. However I always did any extra credit he gave the class and with my 100 % attendance I ended up getting a B in the class. Oh ya I made the honor roll�. The �presidents honors� 3.85-4.0 GPA AND the 100% attendance honors list.
Ok I already told ya all about my jeeps radiator blowing up on the way home from school, then my truck started acting up when I started driving it� Well both of those have been fixed.

Are ya still with me here??????????????
Ok now for what I came here for�. Things have been really good between W and I. we are really getting along great. She still does not have a job and I know this really bothers her but part of the problem here is that she has not gone out and looked for one. She has joined a Yoga class. This did cost a little money (that we really do not have) but if it helps her out with her feelings of self worth then I am for it. She has also seen a doctor about head aces. The doctor told her it was from stress.
I am getting better every day about not taking things personally. But it is hard. IT�s hard because of the affair.
W has told that it was her with the problems and that it was NOT me, she told me that sex was something she could take or leave. Was not important to her. And then she goes and has sex with her EX BF.
Well to me that is kind of like cooking someone dinner they tell you not to take it personally but they are not hungry. Then you catch them eating some fast food right after�

But anyway let me tell you about last night. Kind of just like last time...one thing lead to another and

Right before bed W and I were talking really about nothing really when she said she needs to paint her toe nails because all the women at Yoga have theirs painted. (W has never painted her toe nails before) anyway I jumped at the opportunity and asked her if I could do it for her. She laughed and said �ya right� I told her no I really would like to do it for her. She said �we�ll see� anyway since I have no school this week when she came to bed I was still awake. She was concerned because normally I am in the shower and out of the house before she gets up. W and son both take showers in the morning. She asked me �what time are you getting up� I said (ya I know open mouth insert foot, And I only have one) � I am already up� W said � I don�t want to hear any of your weird painting toe nails sex comments� I told her I will be up before her in the morning. �..she told me that she does not need sex but if I wanted to she would let me have it...well that was a hard one� my animal instinct said �go for it� but my Husbandly instinct and my respect for woman..As in not just using them took over and I just turned over. She asked me if I was mad and I told her no I was just thinking. And I was�.She has made �weird sex� comments concerning me before. How am I a �weird sex addict� wanting to have sex with my wife when her MARRIED Ex BF met with her in a hotel room and they proceeded to dress up and take pictures of themselves and HE had pink hair coloring both on his head and �other places�. So I told her �I don�t want to get you mad but how come I have weird sex thoughts when others that paint their pubic hair pink are ok? She said �I never have painted my pubic hair pink� I said �not you but others� she said �that never happened and don�t make me mad� I said ok we don�t need to talk about it now. She then told me that women her age just don�t need sex as much as men. �It�s a guy thing� I told her �is that why some guys cheat on their wives? Because their wives don�t need sex?� she said probably� she then told me that it�s not that she hates sex...although in our past� it was something that she �just wanted to get over with�. But now it�s different. It feels good but she just does not need it� I asked her �is it like going to curves (her gym) you really don�t want to go there but after you are there you feel good�? she said �YES that is exactly it� so we talked a little bit more and then she got the hic-ups� we both started laughing and she asked me to pat her back to see if I could make them go away�. Well I patter her back for a while and then she said�� maybe we should have sex�. It will take my mind off the hic ups and maybe they will go away�. I asked �are you serious? She said yes�.. well ��1:30 am came around and she said that was great,,,(and the hic ups went away) I told her she better get some sleep since she needed to get up at 6:00am.. We kissed one more time and then I told her �you know we didn�t have to have sex to get rid of the hic ups� you could have just drank a big glass if water� she laughed, hit me and said good night.
This morning wife is not doing so well with the little sleep she had�but do you want to know the weird thing? The sex was ok� but what I really liked most about last night was the talk we had. AND I did bring up the �affair� just a little... and she did not shut down on me. I did back off for now and I did tell her we need to talk more lately but still...we ventured onto this �un spoken� territory. Yes I know some of you are thinking that I have to let go but I still think that it does need to at least be talked about to find out what happened and what we both learned from it so it will not happen again. But that is for another day

Later

OMG!!! Holy Moses!! Good for you Doc...Im still sitting here in shock though.

Its about time! All I can say is that she is lucky to have you.

(((hugs)))

Still more progress, Doc. On all fronts.

But as for bringing up the A and what is the best course, I think it takes a little of both. I understand your need to want to find out more about what happened, for your own peace of mind, but I also understand if some folks would indeed suggest you let it go. So perhaps the middle road you're taking is the best course. As long as your W is still open to your seeking answers, which is as long as you manage to keep replenishing her "love tank", then I myself see no harm in keeping the dialog open in this area. At the same time you must also keep squarely in mind this question: Is asking this dialog taking me closer or farther away from my real goals with W?

I think you have proven after all this time to truly understand this last principle, more-so than 99% of the rest of us. So keep up the good work, bro'.

Glad things are going well for you Doc. Sounds to me like she wants it, but she wants it to be your idea.

I agree with Lotus.
Congrats on your grades.
Buy a lottery on the 18, Pisces get a visit by Lady Luck herself...
K

((((((((((((((Doc))))))))))))))))))))))

Everything happens in it's own time. Your W obviously has needed to get things sorted internally and now she is gradually re emerging and opening up to you. It all sounds like it is going in the right direction.....and so it should - you have worked long and hard for this.....and might I also say, the amount YOU have changed has been amazing too. You have a lot to be proud of.

I may not post much these days but I do try to read along.

Thanks Everyone,

I forgot to tell ya I did buy her some chocolates that day so maybe it is an aphrodisiac....

NoCode... I agree with ya buddy but maybe I need to clarify some things. I do not NEED to talk about the affair. I want to. If W were to say. "I do not want to ever talk about it again" I would be fine with that. But call me a dreamer if you want... But I believe that a husband and wife should be comfortable enough with each other to discuss anything. And it is not so much talking about the affair it's self. But being able to TALK about any "elephants in the room"...

Saffie� Yes both W and I have both grown in many ways. So many little things that if I were to try to include then in the last letter it would probably shut down the DB server.
She calls me when she is shopping to see if I need anything, when she stops go get Ice cream after picking up son from school she brings me home some�the other day she bought me some clothes. (Don�t remember the last time she has done that)
ME�. well when she mentions something that needs to be done around the house I get on it as soon as possible instead of �forgetting about it�.. I have learned the sometimes when I tell W something she was not paying attention or forgot... and when I bring it up again or she asks about something I already told her. I simply just tell she again instead of (like in the past) made a big deal about �I told you that already� or weren�t you listening to me when I told you that�. Or just I already told you that�
I find if I want my wife to treat me like her husband� I need to treat her like my wife�. NOT one of my kids�

Lotus�
�Glad things are going well for you Doc. Sounds to me like she wants it, but she wants it to be your idea.�

This Friday � I am going to ask wife is she still has that night gown she used to wear. (She wears these full P.Js now. I am going to ask her to wear them Friday night because I want to talk again�..

Take care
Doc

You know what I think Doc!!!!!!!
It's working my friend.

JAK

By the way Mine was a diet coke.

Quote:

A LOOOOOOOOOG time ago I asked "how long does this DBing take?" and the answer I got back was... " As long as it takes

Quote:

Thats what Im'e talkin bout!

Pisces
By Rick Levine
Your intense passions may be difficult to ignore with the Moon conjuncting red-hot Mars in your 8th House of Intimacy. Intuitively, you know what you want and are ready to go after it, even if the consequences will complicate your life. Remember that it's smarter to think about what could happen next instead of unconsciously blasting your way ahead.

Hello everyone,
I am finding it harder to come to this site. I feel bad because so many people here have helped me so much and I wish I could return the favor to others that come here like I did three years ago so DESPRATE for help. But school has kept me busy and my R seems to be getting better and better every day.
And when you don�t have problems�. Well ��.. I HAVE WEATHERED THE STORM�. I have come out on the other side of that black hole�.Advice to anyone out there�. Some relationships no matter what you do are never meant to be. No matter what you do your spouses will never come back. BUT�.. If there is the smallest chance�. The little ray of hope� DO NOT GIVE UP�.it takes time�.
Got to get back to homework right now but let me leave you with this�.. Three years ago I truly believed that my wife was ready to take off with the OM. I was afraid when I went in to surgery to put her name down as the person who would decide to �pull the plug� if something went wrong because I really thought she wanted me out of the way so she could be with the OM..
Last night right after I went to bed and was watching T.V in OUR bedroom� she came in and asked me if I wanted some apple cake that she just made. I told her �ya sure I get up and have some� she said �NO you don�t have to get up� I will bring you some�� and she did�. Desert in bed�� does it get any better than this?

You are the voice of experience Doc. Maybe you should remind the people how long you went without sex and then....things changed!

Doc

Awesome!!!!!!!

JAK

Originally Posted By: Lotus

You are the voice of experience Doc. Maybe you should remind the people how long you went without sex and then....things changed!

Well Lotus.... let�s just say We have had (my W and I WITH EACH OTHER)more sex in the last three months that we had in the last three years.....Ok it's only was three times in the last three months but after three years of my W making me feel like I had some kind of disease and NO PHYSICAL CONTACT for three years..... This makes me feel like Hugh Heffner....

I am overjoyed for you, Doc!

Hi Doc,
Just wanted to stop by and say way to go! I admire the courage and determination you've put into your marriage. I loved your post about your wife planting the flowers, and about how she started buying you snacks for your lunches and bringing your S to your school so you could all have lunch together. It's obvious how hard you've worked - on your life, your M and in school - it's great to hear things are coming around for you. You deserve it!

Finding,

Thanks but I still have far to go... I think the biggest "enemy" of anyone on this board is ourselves.
Nobody controls our emotions and feelings but ourselves unless WE let them.

Last night is a good example... I decided to try to initiate some intimacy...And was rejected... (Nicely I might add) but still rejected. Now in the past I would have been hurt, worried that something was up, disappointed... and If I had felt any of those last night it would have been caused by ME allowing me to feel that way not wife�s rejection... instead... last night I just rolled over and thought to myself... Guess I will try again tomorrow...said Good night and I love ya to my wife and went to sleep.

Hi Everyone�.

Well�..I am afraid I am having issues�I took a big step backwards in my mind / thinking yesterday. Went to my highschool (grads only) BBQ yesterday�..I think I was bitten by the MLC bug��.Should have married a woman my age ��. really confused right now

Doc

One of the rules of life: You can't go back. You can only go forward. Rest assured, there were plenty of rocks to trip you up and problems on the road not taken. You just can't see them.

And the seasons they go round and round;
And the painted ponies go up and down;
We're captive on the carousel of time.
We can't return, we can only look behind
From where we came,
And go round and round and round
In the circle game.

Originally Posted By: Dr LOve

Should have married a woman my age ��. really confused right now

Doc

Doc,
Sentences beginning with "should" don't stand on firm ground. I don't think there's any way to prove such a statement that your life would have been better had you married another person at a certain point in time. You would have married another flawed human being who would bring her own set of issues to a relationship. Marriage is hard work no matter who you're married to.

I'm infatuated with women often. It's seductive to idealize another situation or person. It may also express unmet needs.

Get yourself back on-track to the work of daily fidelity.

CL

Thanks CL and everyone else..

I am back...doing better...don't really know what happened...

I'm Back....

Ok call it a test from God..or Buda... or just plain old Karma

BUT I PASSED....

Without getting into detail.... yesterday at the BBQ... A married woman there (no spouses were invited just grads) got my phone number...right after I left she called me and said "now you have my number"... This is part of what was bothering me... I felt so guilty... her having my number and me having hers and the "possibilities"... Well after getting a 2X4 from Gabriel off line... I went ahead and deleted her number from my cell phone.
About an hour later I was working on my car out in my garage and W came in to say she was going over a friend�s house and she came up to me and gave me a good-by kiss �. This is not her usual thing to do. Normally I am the one that initiates� the good by kisses�.she just says good bye

Delete phone number = Kiss BTW wife has asked me nothing about the party and does not know about the number thing...

So Doc is back on track again�

I was looking for a vocabulary to prepare a nice 2x4. Good think Gabriele did it!!
K

Karma indeed... Oh Doc when I started reading this last post I was thinking...oh nooo oh nooo...!!! And then, what a wonderful ending. And that your W did her own 180 and made such a great change. Good for you both.

Quote:

I was looking for a vocabulary to prepare a nice 2x4. Good think Gabriele did it!!
K

Hey, Kalni- did Doc forward my reply to you then or did I forward it to everyone? I was on my Blackberry sitting next to my H after we had dropped our eldest D back at Uni. I just wondered if I replied to all - and did they get both my emails????????

Not that I said anything I didn't mean....was just curious as to how my phone worked

I think It just came to me Saffie...but I am sure everyone I sent my e-mail to thought the same thing you wrote...

getting ready for school... back on track agian
Doc

"Delete phone number = Kiss BTW wife has asked me nothing about the party and does not know about the number thing...

So Doc is back on track again�"

This is not back on track, or at least not on the track that leads to a healthy R.

This is lying by omission to your W. You know it too. Imagine the same thing happened with her -- these are things people share with each other in a trusting, monogomous R. You keep way too many "skirting the cheating line" things form W. It allows you to avoid facing yourself. It prevents you from building trust and intimacy with W.

Time to tell her what happened and how you felt about it.

BTW -- it is REALLY time to stop the private conversations of a personal nature with multiple women in troubled relationships, none of which your W knows about. Enough. Post here or join a support group that your W knows about or tell W about all the women you email here.

If you are uncomfortable with the last option, that should tell you (1) it is because it is inappropriate and thus (2) it is interfering with the trust and intimacy in your own R.

It really is NOT OK to keep private relationships with that level of intimacy a secret from your spouse. Stop them and fess up.

Finally, to all the women emailing Doc privately about very personal matters... It is really time for you to step away from that R.

Any friend to a marriage is a friend to both partners. A friend to one spouse that is hidden from the other spouse is no friend to a marriage.

Originally Posted By: oldtimer

"Delete phone number = Kiss BTW wife has asked me nothing about the party and does not know about the number thing...

So Doc is back on track again�"

This is not back on track, or at least not on the track that leads to a healthy R.

This is lying by omission to your W. You know it too. Imagine the same thing happened with her -- these are things people share with each other in a trusting, monogomous R. You keep way too many "skirting the cheating line" things form W. It allows you to avoid facing yourself. It prevents you from building trust and intimacy with W.

This has been on my mind OT.... I was thinking the same thing about what if it was wife in the same sitch...I would want to know...

The only thing is that it was so bazare that I think she might think I was making it up...
This will be harder that an R talk...
Time to tell her what happened and how you felt about it.

IMO I think you've done enough soul searching that you know you wouldn't do anything that would hurt your W. In this case it might knock back all the progress you made so far.

Your W is just starting to open up to you and initiate things. Because of her low self-esteem, this might just knock her back into the MLC hole.

If you do feel the need to confess, then I would wait awhile longer until you two are on better footing.

Just my .02.

thanks Mr. bond..

I am buring myself in homework right now so I am not going to do anything at the moment. I DID NOTHING WRONG.... I will admit I had WRONG THOUGHTS... but nothing happened and nothing will.

I would make a lousey cheating husband...I felt so bad / guilty but nothing physical happened..

Quote:

BTW -- it is REALLY time to stop the private conversations of a personal nature with multiple women in troubled relationships,

OT - Firstly let me tell you my own R is not troubled. Secondly, that I have on numerous occasions told Doc that I would be more than happy to email with his W. Thirdly you don't know what any email response to him was.......in fact feeling left out the loop maybe YOUR problem. There is no great level of intimacy.....my H has full access to my emails.

I actually agree that Doc and his W might benefit from both belonging to a group where they can see each others posts. I don't often come on the DB boards any more as I stayed pretty much with the group that broke away a while back - I know you registered with them too and posted on occasion. They have moved on again as a group and created a different 'board' and there are couples on there. Some it works for and others it inhibits.

DB is about one person working on things to save the M and does not necessarily involve the S. I actually believe that when one gets to a certain point the S needs to be involved and FULLY informed, in order to create an open, honest, loving R/M.

I think Doc is getting near that BUT he does have to cope with his W's insecurities. Maybe she would be less inhibited in a 'cyber' situation though.

Ok everyone settle down.. OT... Saffie and I have been 'friends" a long time....She has offered to E-mail my wife. AND if my wife wanted to read ANYTHING...I have written here I would let her.
I have not only been struggling with what happened three years ago but also with my inner self. I have been through hell... Not that I am saying my life has been harder than anyone�s else�s here but let�s take toll...Lost my leg in my 20's which put an end to my career in law enforcement. My first wife became addicted to cocaine without my knowledge. (Made me look like a fool)... She left me and I had to raise a 3 mo old baby and a 3 yo daughter by myself...It took me a long time to trust a female again to get married and then when I finely do that wife cheats on me. Not only did she cheat but had me babysit our son while she did.THEN I lose my job after 23 years with the same company. And being disabled limits my job opportunities. I am a very loving guy who loves intimate contact, holding hands� who do not mind showing affection in public. Who CRAVES physical contact even something small like a tap on the side while walking by... I have gone without these for the last three years� YES things are getting better every day with my wife. But I still have insecurity�s
All of a sudden I was thrown back in time. With plenty of hugs, kisses...arms around each other (from the women)... guys I have not seen in years�back to a time when my only worry was getting gas money to go curze and buy beer. That night was just like back in high school that my mind slipped away from reality and back to a time when i only worried about the moment� there was no tomorrow�.It was great but it was not real�. I came back home at the end of the night to my house that I am not sure how much longer I can make payments on... back to a life without a job
YES I think it would be great if she would join something like we have here to help our marriage. She does belong to forums for women watching their weight...but I think she knows I am trying to keep this marriage together. I think she knows I would not cheat on her�It�s a double edge sword though... I could see how telling her could go three ways�1) she could see that I am loyal and honest so there is nothing to worry about .2) she could reverse what she has gained in her self esteem and start to think she deserves me leaving and fooling around..Or 3) it might make her think� Hey I better straighten up because other women are interested in my man�

I think Saffie is right� there will come a time but we are not there yet� Really close�..but not yet
I have never lied to my wife about anything. Yes I have not told her things� but if she were to ask I have nothing to hide. As a side note�. My wife has seen the pictures that were attached to my face book page by other party goers I did ask her if she seen them and she just said �ya��I�m thinking she is seeing a side of Doc she has not seen in a while�. ALSO she and I are going to a wedding next Saturday and no kids are invited... so son will be home by himself and W and I will be dancing the night away� Time to show her the NEW Doc�. The one she saw in the pictures having a great time..

Hey, Dr. L --
Life sure has thrown you more than your share of curves but you're still trucking. It may make you feel better to know that I'm still living in the mess my husband made, too. It's been 3 yrs 5 mo. We've been separated for 4 mo.

A wedding ... dancing? It's been years since I've danced! Have fun, my friend. Show 'em how it's done!

Joie!

Saffie,

There are intimacy and secrets on Doc's side, that is all that matters. IF Doc's W is aware of his Rs with the various women he privately emails and has no interest in reading them or in being in contact with the women that is one thing. BUT, I'm pretty sure all his Rs with DBers off the boards are a secret from his W. That is not OK, and at this point continuing to participate in that is not OK. It is not anymore OK than having regular lunches with a man in a troubled marriage who shares all his secrets with you and keeps you secret from his wife. Indeed, change the food for text, it is precisely the same thing.

And FWIW, I have zero interest in off-board communication with people here, that is why I changed my username years ago and have shared contact information with only one person since then.

Doc,

As far as I know, selective honesty/dishonesty in a relationship isn't supposed to be wielded based on the benefit we'll gain or lose because of our partner's response.

Rather, honesty is a about trust, intimacy, and respect for the other person.

OT,

Just debating the point - I actually don't agree that emailing the person necessarily is like going and having lunch with a guy in a troubled M; there is no physical contact, and if you saw the content of the emails they aren't personal to us/between us as such.....it's more like Doc emails when he needs a kick up the proverbial to keep him on track. Plus, he doesn't only email females.....I can see the list the emails have gone to and there are guys on there too.

I think sometimes there are things that he panics about and he goes to auto mode and just reaches out for help to some of us....and we tell him what we think - generally the poor guy gets lambasted and then comes on here and discusses it.

I DO understand your concerns, and if there was anything EA like in the emails.....if they were personal to the person he was sending them to.....I don't think he would get a response from those that he emails.

Everyone has there own way with dealing with things, and I think in a way some of us are a sort of 'comfort blanket' to him AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

He is so near to cracking his W's inhibitions and attitudes and has come such a long way, really IMO, with Doc, thie risk of an EA arising is highly unlikely. I know I certainly wouldn't put my M at risk for such a thing.

Originally Posted By: saffie

IMO, with Doc, thie risk of an EA arising is highly unlikely. I know I certainly wouldn't put my M at risk for such a thing.

AH heck Saffie I thought we had a future togeather.....I was all ready to swim across "the pond"

In reality I look at my friends here like my big brothers and sisters....

Ot thanks for your concerns and opinions. I like all of the diversity here. I take a little of what you say... a little of what Saffie says... A little of Mr. Bond�s advice ... ECT... and come to my own conclusion... MOST of the time when I E-mail MEN AND WOMEN that I have come to know here...it is more venting than asking or telling �a secret�.
I have come a long way. My confidence in myself has grown allot. BTW I made the honor roll and received a letter from the assistant president of the college for my 100% attendance�.
My Marriage like many became boring...we took each other for granted. But as two individuals human beings...we had different ways of coping with it. Me I just figure my unhappiness was my cross to bear. My wife in her unhappiness...fueled by her low self esteem, menopause�.tried to go back to a time when she thought she was happy.
I think if she really wanted to leave she would have. I think if I really didn�t love her I would have thrown her out.
Right now we both still have issues to deal with. And again we are dealing with them differently. Me I have no problem seeking help. But my wife does not want to be dependent on anybody. That is also part of her issue being out of work for so long�she is dependent on me�

BUT�. We have come a long way.
The wedding the other night was Fantastic�the car ride there (without son) was great. I have really learned to listen to my wife and take interest in what she has to say� once in a while even if I already know about something she is about to tell me.. I let her talk...I do not interrupt her...sometimes I even act surprised when she tells me things I already knew. Why? I am not deceiving her... I am just getting her comfortable talking to me.
At the wedding�. It took a little while but I did finely get her out on the dance floor...the wedding was for a young couple and young people were the ones mostly dancing...but when another �older� couple went out wife decided it was ok for us to. You see... again wife�s confidence / self esteem is so engraved she would deprive herself of a pleasure because she thought �she was too old� BTW her b-day is this Thursday... (57)�she already bought herself a present and said she does not want anything from me. I am still going to get her a card and some flowers though and told her at least we had to go out to dinner... she agreed.
But getting back to the wedding... we stayed until it was over... another first� and when we got home�..without going into details let�s just say� doc�s drought is over�.
We also had another first yesterday� W made a great dinner and after we cleaned off the table she looked at the dishes and jokingly said... �Where is the maid?�... I told her I would rinse the dishes off and put them on the counter for her...she does not like the way I load the dishwasher... at first (as usual) she said � No I�ll do them�� but thought for a moment and then said��No I am going to let you do them�
So you see she is starting to �accept help��..after the dishes were done�. I turned to her to give her my usual little kiss and SHE turned and put her arms around me. Not her usual thing to do�
So wife is coming along pretty good. NOW doc just needs keep working on himself. Yes my confidence is up. But I am only human... and a male at that�.
I am only 52 Yo but do not feel or act any different than I did when I was 25...with the same interest and drives�.

Got ta go... W stopped at cold stone creamery and picked up some Ice cream for herself, son�. AND ME

Bye
Doc

Hi Saffie and Doc and everyone else. Tomorrow is my 31st wedding anniversary. Two nights ago at dinner my husband said something about us having been fated to be together. He was my fate and I was his. I was sitting there eating spaghetti with tears in my eyes. And tonight he said that he is happy that he is married, and happy that he is married to me. We also have come a long way from the day I started posting on this board. Saffie and Doc, gee, what were you called back then, oh yes....Husband, were among the first people I met on this board. We have been friends ever since, even though we have never met. I'm glad the board is back up. But I am glad that we have been able to talk through email too, because when the board went down, I knew I could still talk to some of the people who have meant so much to me in the past 3 years.

Doc,

Get W something other than a card and flowers. A stranger can pick those out. Pick out something that shows you SEE her, than you KNOW her, that you HEAR her.

I think that's a really good idea OT; I know it means a lot to me when my H has put thought in to a present for me.

Lotus, wow. What a long way we have come. We just celebrated our 24th wedding anniversary and like your H I believe that H and I were fated to be together, and my H has said the same also. I feel so lucky that we have worked our way through what happened and I can't think of anyone else I would rather be with.

I cherish the friends I have made on here and those that I have email contact with. Both the boards and the email support help(ed) me keep my sanity at times when I found, (and sometimes still do find - although my issues are quite different now), life very tough.

Doc - I did get your email about the boards being down when I couldn't get on - thank you. I am so pleased the drought is over......I know it's taken a long while but it does go to show that patience CAN pay off. Just keep remembering who you are and don't revert to 'needy'. Both of you have worked at your M in your own ways- it would be nice to 'know' what your W's views about it are.....but not necessary. I expect one day she may 'tell you the lot'. It certainly sounds like she feels a whole lot safer in your M.

Man..........Saffie don't you remember three years ago it took me almost the whole month to pick the right gift.... Now I only have 1 day....
So yesterday she said she already bought herself a "present" remember money is kinds short right now for us... she bought herself a "expensive" blood pressure measurer...She does have high blood pressure.....
So I can't buy her any clothes... that would remind her of her weight plus I don't think I really know her taste in clothing...lately wears Baggy t-shirts and pants.... I can't buy her any "pleasure" items, panties, nighties...last two times I bombed on that...I would not buy her any kitchen or house cleaning items...and jewelry is out of the picture�..BUT....
When I got home today she told me how she read "Eating a little Dark chocolate every day helps bring down your blood pressure, it has something to do with the antitoxins.... Sooooooo

I bought her a nice card.....

"Every so often,
I look at you and forget
About work, bills, errands,
And all the other stuff
That clutters our lives.

It all fades away
And I see just you -
This absolutely marvelous woman
Who I'm lucky enough
To have by my side.

And although
I may not tell you often enough
How much I love
The life we've made -
With all its ups and downs,
Twists and turns -

I do

I do becasue I love the woman
Who�s at the very heart of it all
You, my wife.
My beautiful, amazing wife.

And I bought her a bunch of Dark Chocolates

Hi Doc!

Swoon. That'd make my heart pitty-pat if my H gave me a card like that. Be sure to write a nice hand-written comment though - don't just sign it with your name. Excellent choice Doc!

Doc, that's really nice. Tonight my husband stopped at the grocery store on the way home from work to pick up some flowers at the last minute for our anniversary, and found them all looking wilted. So he showed up with nothing. and I have to admit, though he buys me roses on occasion, and he said such nice things just last night, I still felt neglected. A thoughtful card like that would have really made me feel good! Anyway, he took me out to dinner, so I'm feeling OK about it all now. I'm sure when some new roses come into the store, I'll get some. (Note: I did try to explain that this is why there are florists.)

Quote:

Note: I did try to explain that this is why there are florists

I would suggest we replace explain with argue in the interest of being more clear

You know, as in "Duh, have you ever heard of a florist?"

Thanks all..

I wanted to get it tonight becasue I leave in the morning for school and I wanted to leave the card and chocolates on the counter for her to find them in the morning.(also proves it was NOT a last minute thing).. I still might stop and get some flowers on the way home.. I have a big "hands on" test at school tomorrow and will be getting home later than usual. I know she wants to stop at her mom's before we go out to dinner......
P.S... Wife is in a GREAT mood today.......

Sorry, TH. this is my anniversary, and i spent 31 years getting here. Part of that accomplishment was learning to phrase things nicely and say it will a smile. I am not worried that I will never receive flowers. And though I admit I admire florists' flowers, and I often send them to others, I am usually happy with a good looking bouquet from the grocery. It's not the end of the world. There are still jewelry stores with things I like, too!

Quote:

There are still jewelry stores with things I like, too!

Women and anniverseries

LOL, I know, I know. It's just exhausing with Christmas, Mother's Day, Valentines Day, Birthday, etc, etc.

Out of curiousity, what did you get him?

A bottle of champagne with fresh raspberries, the steaks in the fridge, a cake, and a danish for breakfast in the morning.

Originally Posted By: Lotus

A bottle of champagne with fresh raspberries, the steaks in the fridge, a cake, and a danish for breakfast in the morning.

Now that is what I am talking about...

but realy..it's not my B-day or our annv. but you know what I would LOVE to have as a present...

Just time together ,,,,alone..... away from the house....maybe at our time share....

Yes, we're going to stay at a hotel at the beach next weekend, just for one night. But it is time away, together. Not something we do often.

Originally Posted By: Lotus

Yes, we're going to stay at a hotel at the beach next weekend, just for one night. But it is time away, together. Not something we do often.

MY DREAM PRESENT.........
with my wife though not you...

Now that is fantastic...
I hand wrote in the card....

Wife,
Read this card... sometimes you need to put work,bills and everything else aside and just enjoy the moment....
Love ya forever.... Doc

Good one Doc!!

Lotus, I sent you an email. I am just telling you as I think it may have gone to the email account you don't check so often.

Outstanding! And flowers *in addition* are always fabulous and extra-special.

If you haven't seen the picture on facebook, my husband left work early today to drive to the Fresh Market where they have beautiful roses and he bought me 2 dozen roses -- Cayenne and Blush. And they are gorgeous! I thanked him for going out of his way to do that for me. Then I made the steak, potatoes and salad I had originally planned for last night. And we'll have the cake again after that. And then, who knows what we will do for the evening's entertainment?! This actually worked out very nicely. We celebrated our anniversary two evenings in a row, and we still have the night at a hotel at the beach planned for next weekend. So the 31st is turning into a very big celebration.

Doc, I hope that she liked the card and the chocolates and the flowers if you get those too. I am really happy that things have turned out so well for you, even though it came after both of you lost your jobs. Funny how it seems no matter how we try we can never "have it all". But the important thing is to be happy with what we have. We could always have even less.

Originally Posted By: Lotus

If you haven't seen the picture on facebook, my husband left work early today to drive to the Fresh Market where they have beautiful roses and he bought me 2 dozen roses -- Cayenne and Blush. And they are gorgeous! .

Reminds me of what a famous person once said�..

You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes, well you might find you'll get what you need

Hey everybody..... remember me???

Sorry I have not been around for awhile...Things are still going in the right direction...My main problem is me. I notice more little baby steps everyday...
School has been keeping me busy... I am in the final stretch. I actually had some open times and moved up some of my classes and it looks like I will graduate in January.
Still keeping up the A's and B's but this mod I have Linux and am having a little difficulty with it. Code writing you know...
W is sill sleeping in our room. But still "dresses" in her night clothes elsewhere but I am working on that.
My Aunt who is 80 had an accident and has been in the hospital. My Uncle who is 76 has been having a hard time being alone. He has been calling me every day and somehow finds something he needs me to do at his house. I know he is just looking for the company though. I have been trying to give him, my family and my school equal time.
Well I have next week off and I will try to post more of an update on how my R is going�
Over three years now�. Wow��.as they say��It takes as long as it takes�

They call me Dr. Love

Hi Doc,

Glad you checked in. Wow! Graduating in January...didn't you just start recently? How long is the program? Glad to hear things are good. Things are fine with me, too.

Hi, Doc,

I don't post much anymore myself. But I do look in on our old friends here in DB from time to time.

Congratulations on everything, including graduating this upcoming year.

Best regards and well wishes.

Thanks Nocode.....

Things are "good" a hel of alot better than 3 years ago. I still have a long way to go...intamacy is still NOT a top priority in W book. Me....27/7

school wise... I have the rest of this week.. two weeks off for X-mas then just three more weeks and I have to get a real job...

health wise.... the doctor switch my meds for my prostrate sitch.some kind of hormone stuff. The good news...... It also helps pevent male baldness..
The not so good new... I might grow boobs.... Well at least I will have some to play with......
later
Dr. Love

Hey All

It�s been a long time.. First let me tell ya that I GRADUATE in two weeks January 17th. Ya cap and gown and the works...
Guess now I need to start looking for a job�..
As most of you know I have come a long way. Things are mostly great right now. There is that Elephant in the room that �we don�t talk about and I feel that until we do acknowledge it will NOT go away in my mind.
As they say in the song� �Every rose has its thorns
Though it's been a while now
I can still feel so much pain
like a knife that cuts you the wound heals
but the scar, that scar remains
This is a NEW year and I want to start out with a clean slate�My wife says things and sometimes things just happen that trigger old memories that hurt. Some of these memories trigger thoughts that If I said them as statements I may make would sound like a �smart a$$� statement if said when they occurred.
What I am planning on doing is getting them OUT OF MY SYSTEM. I want to sit down with my wife and just tell her how some things make me feel. How when certain things are said what thoughts pop out in my mind.
I am NOT asking her to respond to these statements I just what her to know what demons I am dealing with. I know it in MY issue I need to overcome but I do believe that if things are going to work out we need to be open to each other. WE need to try to understand what the other is dealing with in our lives.
Just like if she or I had cancer or some illness. I would want to let her know how I feel and I would want t her to let me know how she feels.
I think once I get these thoughts/feelings out in the open...AND NOT dwell on them it will be a releife for me and I can move on.
Any thoughts? Will this make me look weak?

Hi Doc. Congratulations on the new degree! I look forward to hearing about your next job.

Hmm. I have reservations about this elephant in the room conversation. Have you and W had any conversations about her affair before? I'm just wondering if there really is an elephant in the room, or if you don't have an obsession. Not saying you need medication! Just wondering if a conversation will really cure it, or if it will reinforce it. At some point, you have to get over it.

I can see discussing it once. But if you have discussed it, and you haven't put it to bed, then I think it is your problem, not hers. If you haven't discussed it yet, then I think you should let her know that you know it's an uncomfortable subject for her, and you only want to discuss it once. And you would appreciate her help in you getting over it. And after the discussion, that's it. Never again. somehow I have this vision of you on your deathbed at 90 years old still wanting to go punch that guy's lights out!

Originally Posted By: Lotus

I can see discussing it once. But if you have discussed it, and you haven't put it to bed, then I think it is your problem, not hers. If you haven't discussed it yet, then I think you should let her know that you know it's an uncomfortable subject for her, and you only want to discuss it once. And you would appreciate her help in you getting over it. And after the discussion, that's it. Never again. somehow I have this vision of you on your deathbed at 90 years old still wanting to go punch that guy's lights out!

Thanks Lotus,

NO we have not discussed it except for the day I found out ..what almost 3 years ago? That day she told me she was �in love� with him and was not sure if they had any future together. THAT day she told me that If I ever contacted him �It was over� between us.
A LOT has happened since then...And things are pretty good BUT I have this feeling we are about at the same point when this all started.
AND I believe if we would have spoken about our feeling way back then� That it would not have happened.
YES I agree and thanks for the �intro� to the conversation. I was not planning on asking her to explain anything or try to justify what happened. I just wanted to get it out of my system and into the open what I am trying to deal with.
Once It is out� unless she wants to bring it up again that is it� the only thing wrong with your �90 yo death bed scenario would be that the guy is 10 years older than me so that would make him 100

OK. But you admit, you have come a long way since then. So how could the two of you be in the same place? I'm thinking the two of you are not in that place. And she is not in that place. But there you are --- stuck; because you keep yourself stuck by playing that memory over and over again in your mind. It is an old broken record and you need to throw it away!

Hey I made it....No tsunami damage here

Glad to hear it!

Not allot of time now but here is a little bit of info...

I am still out of work.. BUT W got a call last week and they want her to come back to work as a "contract worker" where she used to work. It seems the woman that took her place passed away.

This will be great for her self esteem... But me..... It brought back memorys of her sitting out in the parking lot at lunch time talking to OM on the phone....Just when you think you have let things go....I guess I still havent

Doc,

would it help if I came out there and hit you over the head with a book? Not something light like, DR....maybe a dictionary!

I'll help you Lotus. C'mon Doc.....you should be WAY past this.

Calm down ladies. (Besides ya both live too far away from me)

ANY hoot... Wife signs paperwork on Monday at this temp agency to go back to work where she used to work. IT's only temporary but I can see the change in her attitude already.
AND I have an interview at the temp agency on Wednesday...They told me there are openings at my old work and others places that fit my resumes and are really interested in me working for them.
Yes my stupid mind does fall back into the "old thinking" every now and then. But it does not last long. I have been sick the few days (Bad head cold) but am getting better. Maybe by next week wife and I can celebrate both of us getting back to work�.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, Doc. It would be great if both you got jobs again!

Fingers crossed here, over the pond, too!!!!

What??? How come OT has not posted and got on my case yet?
Well W starts work on Monday... and me? Well I signed papers and they are doing a back ground check on me and have a 99.9% chance of being back to work soon.. The funny thing is.... Both W and I worked for the same company before we were laid off. She for 30 years me for 27.
Now we are both working for the same "contract employer" (Volt) and will be contracted out to the SAME company that we were laid off from..No benefits but hey it's wrok right?

Sounds great Doc. Work is work. How are things on the 'lovin' front?

HEY Mr Bond....How ya doing?
"How are things on the 'lovin' front?"

SLOOOOOOW but sure...in the past ANYTHING with a sexual indo indu (sp) was forbidden. She would get pi$$ed. But she is coming around. (No pun intended)

In fact the other day on TV they that commercial came on about "erectile Dysfunction" meds and then they said the side effects. I kind of laughed and said "great ya get an erection but then have the side affect of diarrhea...She laughed and said "ya and then they talk about having an erection for 4 hours to seek medical attention. I told her �heck if I had one for 4 hours I would use every minute of it"...she laughed.
I have seen a BIG change in her since she is going back to work. Now is the time for the flowers... and a congratulations card and maybe ......"Now that we both have jobs...Does this mean we can have sex again???

Congrats, again, Doc!

Hey all I am still alive...
Boy when someone here told me "it takes as long as is takes" they were right.

Things are changing... not where I want them yet but still farrrrrrrr better than when I first started this thread.

We are still both working... (Nice having money again)... son starts Highschool next year... (I remember when this started and he was starting junior High. Wife was worried that our problems would make it harder on him in this transition... Why she did not think about that before she cheated I don't know.
I think what has made this better for me is the fact that I have started thinking about ME... What I wanted. Not worrying about what she wanted or what would pi$$ her off.
Our nephew graduates from Stanford next weekend. Palo Alto is a couple of hours away and the graduation is early on Sunday morning�..Soooo the wife and I are going down Saturday night and staying in a hotel..(Son is staying with his sister at home)
This will be the first night in over a year that we have been alone�.. At night�� in a hotel�..

Dr.

Have either of you talked with each other about the hotel room?

If you haven't I'd caution you about forming expectations that might not happen, which may sour the following day events.

As for piecing...I admit to not knowing your whole situation, but you are posting here...

Why is this the first time in a year? Do you guys do date nights and weekend get-a-away? Money might be tight but there are deals out there.

Hey Doc,

You sure have come a long way. You will be fine

Thanks Saffie... hope all goes well with......
Anyway... Three beans... IF YOU DON"T EXPECT ANYTHING... you are NEVER disappointed....

First let me tell ya STANFORD UNIVERSITY was fantastic�the Campus was huge� AND the President of Mexico was there and gave the commencement speech got there Saturday and went for a walk� it was nice� then we had dinner with family at a beer pub and had a great time. BUT alas when we got back to the hotel room I was tired from the long drive and so was wife� so we slept�.of course during the night we did snuggle�..that morning when I got up for some reason I had a dizzy spell. I could not look up without getting dizzy�..The main ceremony was at the Stanford stadium... (That is where the President spoke) after we were to go the Architectural engineering department to watch our nephew graduate. It must have been at least a quarter mile away on campus. They had shuttles but we did not want to wait. SOOOO with my bad leg and all wife and I set off across campus.

All of a sudden without warning wife put her arm through mine��. Latter she held MY hand��now normally I would be the one to initiate this type of behavior�. About half way across campus we walked on opposite sides of a pole and wife said �Bread and butter�
For those of you not familiar with that saying � you say it when something comes between you and the one you love�(bread and butter go together)�
So yes there was no physical intimacy that weekend. (Not to say we have not been intimate at home� just not as much as I would like)
But the weekend was great�. I feel the end is near��What a long strange trip it�s been�..

That is such good news Doc. You have accomplished a huge amount and should be placed in the success stories section.