My thread locked a while back, but admittedly, all I was talking about was hurricanes. So for those who don't know me, it's been three years and I am still trying to get over that homewreaker Katrina.
But tonight is a good night. Because tonight is the beginning of the September Retrouvaille weekend here in Tampa. And I will be there to greet the 30 new couples who are going to start healing their marriages. It's just a small thing that I do, helping them check in and carrying their bags up to their room. But they look so nervous and frightened. We graduates of the program go, just to smile at them, and tell them it will be alright. Better than alright. Things are going to be good, and they are safe.
I hope at least one of the people on this site will be there. If not this weekend, then maybe another session, or maybe in your hometown.
So I'll go post a little introductory info, and any questions or comments, or talk about hurricanes, bring it here.
Cheryl
Sara's Story
My H and I were married in 1979, almost 29 years ago. We have 3 children. Usual problems and arguments, but as I saw my other friends get divorced and heard their stories, I chose against that for myself. I wasn't particularly happy, but they were even more unhappy.
I was not loving toward him. I decided years ago that I should have married a different boyfriend. But we co-existed and had a decent life together. Over the years we grew further apart, we argued over how to deal with our son who chose to be a juvenile delinquent and was verbally abusive to me. We went to counseling at that point, but made no headway in solving the problem.
About a year ago my husband began an internet relationship with his old girlfriend. That grew into an EA and then in November they took a romantic weekend together. Super sleuth that I am, I figured it out! I confronted him with cell phone records of his calls to her (should have been looking at those all along), and he said he would stop. Two weeks later, I checked the cell phone bill again, and the calls were still going on.
I gave my son her number. If she wanted my job as his wife, she could have my son too! So he called her and told her he knew she was having an affair with his father, and if she didn't stop he would find her and make her stop! Apparently, H had neglected to mention that we were a dysfunctional family. So she decided my job didn't really look too good, and she called H and broke up with him.
At that point I decided that I really did want this marriage. We tried to put things back together ourselves, but it ran hot and cold. Some days were good, some were vicious. A friend at work had just been to Retrouvaille and sent a glowing letter to us all recommending the program. So, knowing next to nothing about it, I suggested that we go to Retrouvaille together. There being no other solution, he agreed to it.
We went to the weekend in January, 2007 did the post sessions in Feb and March and we were continuing to get better. Now the kids have moved out of the house - we are empty nesters, at least for the summer, and life is really good. I have learned to love my husband and he is learning to love me. We are different people than we were 18 months ago. The sex is great, we laugh at each other's jokes, it's a lot like when we were first married. I won't say all the tension is gone, but we know how to approach our problems when one comes up. We pull out our notebooks, and we dialogue on the subject.
I am grateful to Retrouvaille for saving my marriage. I could not have done it alone. In fact, I made a pretty good mess of things on my own (and with my husband). In addition to being here to give my personal brand of advice to those who seek it, and to some who don't, I also try to be a source of info on the Retrouvaille program. The Retrouvaille (Retro) website,
http://www.helpourmarriage.org is great because it gives info on upcoming weekends around the world and who to contact. But it doesn't really tell you much about the program. I'm sure there are some people who think it's better to just know the program will help, without any details, and there are others who need to know what they are getting into before they will go. I try to fill in some detail without taking away from the whole experience of the weekend (which really cannot be described). So feel free to ask questions. I will post some of the descriptions I have on my last thread here too.
Sara,
I just wanted to say what an asset you are to be helping us through our issues. I do thank you for the help you have personally gave me, and also helped me look at things from a different perspective.
Its often that we are so judgmental with eachother, we can't see the forest for the trees. You have always looked at the brighter side of things for us, and I thank you truly for your support and kindness.
:)~ your a gem!
Thanks, TAL. That's so kind of you to say. I hope that things will continue to go well for you.
Thing is, and I think we all forget it, "And they lived happily ever after" are just words we use to get our children to go to sleep. The real story would be way to long, and not for children anyway. And the real story is the one we live.
Sara, I have heard many people debate on whether or not Retro would work if the WAS was still envolved with OP. What is your oppinion on this? Can couples find the love again if the WAS feels there no longer is any love and the OP completes them? This, of course, is assuming that the WAS will go. Just wanted your input.
Broken,
That is one of the requirements when Retro contacted me. They said that "all contact would have to be broken if a third party was involved"
Dr LOve
Hi BH,
Retrouvaille is an intense weekend program, and as you know, there seem to be an infinite number of unhappy marriages. They know they can't help everyone, so they are selective in this way. Before you come, they ask if you have a third party involved in the marriage. If so, then as the doc says, they tell you that all contact has to be broken off first. They are serious about helping the 25 or 30 couples who attend the weekend. They want the couples to be serious about it too. The only other requirement is that they ask you to come "with an open mind and a willing heart."
I want to second tal and say that you are a great support to so many on here. I know you have enriched my life and helped my M with your caring and advice. I wish that Retro operated in England - I would go if I could. The better the communication the better the R/M in my book.
I want to second and third Tal and add that if you ever become "availble" let me know.I am willing go move.
Dr LOve
that was willing TO move..
Dr LOve
LOL
Not often that happens!!!!!!!
Hi Everyone,
Checking in to let you know that I am hitting the road again. My H and I are heading out to Jackson Hole, WY tomorrow. It's a combination business/vacation trip. I will be speaking at a conference on Thursday, and after that we have a few days on our own to explore Yellowstone National Park. Let's hope us ol'married people can figure out how to have a good time without our kids or pets bossing us around!
The hotel should have internet, so I will be checking in from time to time. Especially have to catch up on the doings in NY.
Sara,
I hope you have a nice time. Stay safe and have a wonderful trip. We will miss you.
Hugs, Yoyo
Sara... That sounds great.... Have you ever been there... It is absoutley beautiful!! We went there skiing in January before our oldest was born. We had a great time. The town is so nice and the people are too.
HOpe you have a great time. Yellowstone is really pretty. We went snowmobiling through there, it was great.
Its great that your able to be by yourselves! Have fun, enjoy it as much as possible!!
Hey Sara Darlin', when you recover from climbing mountains and sexing up your H, check on daybyday (he's in piecing this morning) and do your thing, 'kay?
Thanks and hope you're having fun!
D.
Hi Deauxlie and everyone else,
I am home again. I agree with my pets, it seems like I was gone forever. But we did have a great trip and my H was right, there is a lot of sex in Wyoming. Who knew? I'm working on posting some photos in the alternate universe. I'll be sure to look for daybyday.
there is a lot of sex in Wyoming. Who knew? I'm working on posting some photos in the alternate universe.
LOL!! Lots of sex and you'll be posting photos??? You're supposed to keep those private Sara.
Good to hear you had a great time.
there is a lot of sex in Wyoming. Who knew? I'm working on posting some photos in the alternate universe.
LOL!! Lots of sex and you'll be posting photos??? You're supposed to keep those private Sara.
Good to hear you had a great time.
LOL. I caught that too.
Sara, my English class is learning how sometimes sentences can cause you to think something else other than the intended meaning. Mind if I use this one to give my students and example? LOL
Glad you had a wonderful time and welcome back!!!
I must have been sick the day my high school English teacher did that lesson. Certainly Yoyo, I hope your kids can learn from my mistake.
I assure everyone, the photos are rated G.
darnit!!!! I knew you were wild, but I didn't think you were that wild
there is a lot of sex in Wyoming. Who knew? I'm working on posting some photos in the alternate universe.
LOL!! Lots of sex and you'll be posting photos??? You're supposed to keep those private Sara.
Good to hear you had a great time.
LOL. I caught that too.
Sara, my English class is learning how sometimes sentences can cause you to think something else other than the intended meaning. Mind if I use this one to give my students and example? LOL
Glad you had a wonderful time and welcome back!!!
I must have been sick the day my high school English teacher did that lesson. Certainly Yoyo, I hope your kids can learn from my mistake.
I assure everyone, the photos are rated GSara,
That will be my sentence of the day complements of my dear friend in FL. LOL
I think you missed your decade, you could have been a flower child. I could see you enjoying Woodstock!
I didn't miss the decade at all. I was 16 when they held Woodstock, and if they hadn't closed the road in, I had a ride. Of course, my parents would have killed me.
Hey, Sara... wazz up?! After being away for about 5 months, I finally posted again. I've been wanting to for weeks. Been so busy. How are you??????
Hey joie,
I replied on your thread. My life is just keeping on. My H and I just got back from a great trip to Yellowstone and Grand Teton. Pictures are posted on facebook. Email me, and I'll send you a link.
Hi All,
It's New Year's Day, time to renew the thread. The next Retrouvaille in Tampa should be soon. They will have to inform me as I have all the supplies in my closet. I am now the person who shleps it all to the site and sets out notebooks and pens on each chair (and tissue boxes underneath). It's not that big of a job, but it is important. I have nightmares about getting the weekend wrong and not having the stuff there on time.
Here's a post from an earlier thread:
Several people have expressed interest in knowing more about the Retrouvaille program. My husband and I are Retrouvaille graduates, and proud of it. As you may or may not know, the web address is
http://www.helpourmarriage.org. The website gives dates and locations of the weekends available around the world. However, it doesn't give much info as to what goes on at the weekends. Perhaps I am breaking an unwritten rule by telling you about what goes on, but I think knowledge of what to expect makes people more comfortable. Here is a brief description of Retrouvaille. I'd be happy to answer questions you may have.
Retrouvaille, meaning rediscovery in French, is an volunteer organization with support from the Catholic church that holds weekend retreats around the world to help people heal their broken marriages. They have a website,
http://www.retrouvaille.org. The program works by example. Couples who have experienced misery in their marriages present their stories. They sit in front of you, with occasional tears in their eyes, holding hands and giving each other support, telling you openly and honestly about their lives, what went wrong, and how they fixed it. Then they teach you a communication technique called Dialoguing and you practice doing dialogues with your spouse, in private. They give you questions to dialogue about. These questions help you and your spouse understand each other at a deeper level than you ever could by simply talking.
The initial program takes a weekend. You can do it in your home city or go somewhere else and make it a mini-vacation. There are follow-up sessions locally. These help you to continue the openness and understanding with each other. They teach concepts like, love is a decision. Or, marriage is like a building supported by four posts: love, commitment, trust, and forgiveness. If you break one of the posts, like trust, and forgiveness is weak, then the building comes crashing down. To rebuild the marriage, you must first rebuild the foundation, and then you can rebuild the four posts. The more I thought about it, the more I understood. To rebuild my marriage I had to forgive, and trust. I couldn't rebuild the marriage first and have those fill in later. (Which is what I had been trying to do).
While it is co-sponsored by the Church, it is open to all. My husband and I are not Catholics, and we benefited tremendously from the experience. The presentations by the priest focused on marriage, not Catholic doctrine. The goal of Retrouvaille is to save marriages. They have only 48 hours with you for that purpose, so there is no time for dogma. However, the priest was also there to be of service to the Catholics in the room who wanted his services. We were told not to confess new things to each other -- the priest was there to take confessions. I found that interesting. They do not focus on the past, they focus on building a new future together.
Religion is a personal thing. For some, I have no doubt, the religious aspect at Retrouvaille is not strong enough for their liking. And for others, any mention of a higher power is too much. So how religious is a Retrouvaille weekend? It is middle of the road. Let me start by saying that I am Jewish, and my husband was raised Catholic, which sort of innoculated him against any religious faith. So as a couple, the religious part was not what we were going to Retrouvaille for. But the program is dedicated to helping people save their own marriages, and it is open to everyone. They make an effort to keep the religious part minimal to not turn off people like us.
On the other hand, like survivors of a hurricane, sitting on a rooftop unable to help ourselves, we were not about to refuse to get onto the boat offering to help us just because there was a cross painted on the side. My philosophy is that if you want the help you will take it from whoever offers it. And so it was with us. We needed help, and I had heard glowing reports of this program, I couldn't wait to go, and I gave it my all.
The program is led by the three couples. They are regular people. They experienced pain and unhappiness and found help at a Retrouvaille weekend years ago; they tell their stories in detail. There is a priest at each weekend. He has short talks interspersed with the couples. What does he talk about? A lot about his life and his personal observations about marriage. He has never been married, but he tries to relate the topic of marriage to his experience, and speak about that. Does he mention God, Jesus, the bible? Sometimes. Yeah, they are mentioned. Are they the focus of the program? No, the subject matter is marriage. The priest is willing to meet privately with anyone who wants to talk to him, and I saw several couples set up times to meet with him. But we didn't choose to.
There was an optional mass on Saturday morning for those who wanted to attend. My H and I slept in. There was a closing mass on Sunday afternoon. It was part of the program, and we should have attended, but we whispered goodbye and sneaked out to the car, as did a few other couples.
The program is relatively inexpensive. There are other marital retreats and weekends that have no religious aspect, but they are much more expensive. The Church supports this program financially, and that makes a difference. That, and the fact that all the lead couples are volunteers, keeps the cost of Retrouvaille low. So I would say it is a toss-up. If you and she cannot take help from a religious agency, then you should go to a different marital weekend. However, if you can overlook a few references to a belief system that you may not subscribe to, then go to Retrouvaille, because they really do save marriages there.
Another post from an earlier thread:
Thinking about the process of a Retrouvaille weekend. I often talk about the dialogue technique and what a great tool it is for communication. But the weekend is so much more than just learning to dialoque.
Over the course of the weekend, interspersed with the stories of the lead couples, you are asked to answer questions. You share your answers to the questions only with your spouse, in private. The questions are carefully chosen to bring out first your feelings about the past, but then also to bring out your dreams for the future. The process of going through the series of questions is purifying in a way that I can't explain. And there is an intimacy of sharing these answers with your spouse. Who knows? Maybe when we withdraw from each other over time we stop sharing our dreams. Maybe the return to sharing dreams is more important to restoring the marriage than other elements.
Sara:
I'm crying my eyes out reading your thread. I've made a commitment to myself and my H not to have any R talks until the end of January, and just focus on enjoying the holidays, etc...
I had tried to find a retreat for us, and just didn't see anything that seemed appropriate to us. This sounds superb. THANK YOU!
I'm going to ask him to go (when I've honored my commitment). I'm pretty sure he won't be open to it, as he's pretty private, but I'm going to try. Wish me luck.
I've posted my sitch, so if you have time, take a peek. I'd love input regarding the applicability of the retreat to where we're at right now...
THANK YOU AGAIN!!!
Hi MB,
I'm glad I updated the thread! I've read your thread, and it sounds like you have made a lot of progress lately. You don't mention if your H is seeing another woman. That would be the only potential problem. If there is no third party involved, then Retrouvaille would be an excellent choice. You can reassure your husband that this is NOT group therapy. The only person he will be talking to at Retrouvaille is you. In the group, you listen to the speakers. There is no group discussion. Retrouvaille is a very private, one on one experience. There are no therapists, counselors, or authorities. Just other couples who have been there and learned the pitfalls of unhappy marriages. This is a self-help program.
Hi Sara,
I have read your posts over and over again. There are tons of questions on my mind, but let me start with just a few:
- You described how couples arrive in separate cars, but by Saturday night they hold hands. What makes them change their mind, their feelings so quickly? It has been 7 or 8 weeks since the bomb, and I notice minor changes in my W's attitude. It is hard to believe that 24 hours at Retro will do the job.
- What happens at the follow-up sessions? Are there more presentations on a specific topics? Everybody says they are important, but how so?
Thank you for your patience.
AN
Good questions, AN.
I think the change comes from several different elements of the entire Retrouvaille experience. First, there is the feeling of being in a safe place. Retrouvaille teaches you to talk to each other without fighting. To listen fully, without formulating a snappy comeback, or an argument. It doesn't dwell on the past, but it deals with it once, and puts it to bed. Retrouvaille teaches you rules to express yourself fully and fairly. As a result, the spouses relax with each other. They aren't at war. No one is losing. Everyone is winning. Retrouvaille is a place where you can open up your heart and tell the truth without fear of being attacked by the other person. Retrouvaille is a long meditation on the subject of yourself. You share your thoughts of yourself with your spouse. If the love you once had isn't completely dead, then you feel it again. Retrouvaille is a warm, safe, and healing experience.
As for the Post sessions. The weekend focuses on teaching the dialogue method, how to communicate your feelings to each other effectively and constructively. Communication is the key. But they don't teach you how to get along at the weekend. That is taught gradually over a 6 week follow-up period. In the Post sessions you learn more philosophical and psychological approaches to getting along. For example, it is in the Post sessions where idea that love is a decision is explained and explored. Where the importance of trust, commitment and forgiveness are discussed. Where you share memories from your birth families and compare your family of origin with your married family. And the Post sessions are important as a place to ask questions and get advice on problems as they come up. And perhaps most importantly, at the Post sessions you learn the method for dealing with conflict. It is a path of breadcrumbs, leading you from your place of pain into the light of a happy marriage.
There are many pitfalls along the way. But they offer you a roadmap if you choose to follow it. There are exercises and homework. I won't say we did every bit of homework, but we did almost all of it. We followed their advice to the letter. We did not stray from the path. And we got to where we wanted to go. That is my advice to all couples who go to Retrouvaille. Don't take it lightly, don't drop the dialoguing and go back to old habits when you get home. Getting along takes work and discipline. But, over time, it becomes easy and natural. And the rewards are worth the effort.
Hi All,
It's New Year's Day, time to renew the thread. The next Retrouvaille in Tampa should be soon. They will have to inform me as I have all the supplies in my closet. I am now the person who shleps it all to the site and sets out notebooks and pens on each chair (and tissue boxes underneath). It's not that big of a job, but it is important. I have nightmares about getting the weekend wrong and not having the stuff there on time.
Sara,
Does this mean you will be in Jacksonville on 2/20-21? After months and months of my wife fighting me on going, after our MC recommended it, the fetching Mrs. Puppy READILY agreed to go with me!
I sooooo wish Feb. 20 was here already!
Puppy
No, Pup, I don't shlep that far. I only volunteer for the Tampa Retrouvaille program. Would love a chance to meet you though.
So tonight we had an incident, not a big incident, but it could have blown up. We were both in the kitchen, I was doing dishes; he was cooking. And he dropped an empty jar of spaghetti sauce on the floor. It was a mess, broken glass and tomato sauce. He gave me a minute or two to run to his rescue and take control of the situation, and I didn't do it. So he asked for the dustpan, and started sweeping it up himself. He did an alright job of cleaning it up, but not complete. I could have criticized it. But I tried not to. It bothered him that I stood there watching, but I continued to watch, and when he missed some glass, I did point it out. Then we sat down and ate, and I complimented his cooking.
Later, I was baking a cake, and he came in. He jokingly referred to his mishap with the jar. I joked with him too. Then he knew it was OK. In the old days, it would have been different. Probably, I would have cleaned it up myself, and resented him for making a mess. Treated him like a child because he messed up. We did better.
Sara,
that sounds like what I would have done at an incident like this...
xxxx
K
What would you have done Kalni, waited and let him clean it, even if it was not well done, or taken over and done it your way?
Taken over, done it my way, and then snap at him for not doing it ever (!!!!) and for not knowing how to do it MY way and for making me do it...
yeah, I know... super bitch!
K
maybe not the first few year but definitely the last before the bomb...
Yes, that was my old method. Scary, huh? And of course, I break stuff in the kitchen too. But I always get it cleaned up before he sees it. My daughter is still traumatized from the time we were making a frozen lemon pie, and I had separated out the egg yolks and whipped the egg whites, and then answered the phone. My sweet little helper asked what to do with the egg yolks now. I quickly said, "Put them in the bowl." So she put them in the bowl with the frothy egg whites. When I looked back, I screamed, "Not that bowl!" Poor little girl, she broke down crying. I think it was a year or so before she wanted to cook with me again.
Taken over, done it my way, and then snap at him for not doing it ever (!!!!) and for not knowing how to do it MY way and for making me do it...
yeah, I know... super bitch!
K
maybe not the first few year but definitely the last before the bomb...
And on an scale of 1-10 would your feeling be a 10?
And if your feeling were a color would it be red?
BTW you get a 10 for honesty and "retrouvaille" means "rediscovery". HDYFAMA!?
FB that was too funny...brings back all my fond retro memories. I think I should just start a daily journal even without H and use those ratings/terms. They are sure helpful to me...
Yes, the word retrouvaille mean rediscovery. But the experience of retrouvaille is change. Change by both spouses to make a better marriage. That was what I was referring to.
When he broke the jar, my feeling was disappointment, because things had been going well, and now there was something bad to deal with. The color was purple, a mixture of red for the mess and blue for the loss of the nice working together in the kitchen experience. And it was just a 4 on the emotional scale. I knew that I could jump in and fix the mess, but I chose to hang back and see what would happen if I didn't. I still don't understand why he grasps the broom with only one hand. It's as if he was trying to use it and keep it distant from him at the same time. I think he really wants me to believe that he is incapable of cleaning.
<< He did an alright job of cleaning it up, but not complete. I could have criticized it. But I tried not to. It bothered him that I stood there watching, but I continued to watch, and when he missed some glass, I did point it out.
Ouch! Still a lot more opportunity for change here ;-)
So lots of fun. S25 showed up today as he usually does on Monday. He told me that he and his girlfriend had a big argument. I told him he could talk to me about it when he wanted to. He hesitated a few minutes and then said that they had a big argument with lots of yelling, and he told her, "Shut up you f@#$ing stupid bitch!" And now he didn't know what to do. Tee-hee, I've been telling him to stop the cursing for a long time now.
I told him he needed to apologize. He said that he had done that. And I said, "And you need to change." He walked out of the room. Then S19 walked by, and S25 told him what he had said. And S19 just laughed and walked away. I asked S19, if he thought there was something wrong with saying that to one's girlfriend, and they both laughed.
So we'll see where this goes. I think S25 may have finally learned something. But you never know. It is so nice to have someone else teaching him lessons. He wore me out years ago.
Can't believe it. S25 was a good boy today. He pressure washed the patio area for me and did a good job. Then he spent the rest of the day primping, and right at dinnertime, he left without a word. I saw the forgive-me gift I helped him pick out in his hand. So he is invited back to the girlfriend's house! Wow! That level of potty-mouth talk, and he can go back after only 2 days. I was hoping for higher standards.
Sara,
She has him whipped, doesn't she? LOL She can do what you have struggled with for 25 years!
Boy, I really hope she can fix him.
Sara... You too funny
Boy, I really hope she can fix him.
Sara, I'm surprised at you! I'd have thought you'd want grandchildren some day.
I didn't mean fix him in "that" way, Blue. I guess someday, I do want grandchildren.
I spent most of today putting together workshop folders for the upcoming Retrouvaille. We will have 22 couples, probably a few more will register by the weekend. It's a lot of work. I never thought about how that notebook, folder and pen appeared on my chair when I was a participant. I gave no thought to the people who made the weekend possible, and cared enough about my marriage to take time out of their lives to conduct the weekends. And now I am doing it. The baton (and boxes of and boxes of stuff) has been passed to the next generation to continue helping couples learn to get along together in a tough world.
Good luck preparing for the retro weekend. I felt very special knowing so many people were there to help me out and praying for my marriage...
BBJ,
Their dedication isn't just for the weekend. They are still praying for you and all the lives they have touched. If you have an opportunity to talk to them again, you should reach out to them. They are still there to help you.
Thanks, Sara. H is turning toward me AGAIN, and I am going to need some help to keep on the right path I am sure.
How is the family?
Sara,
You are a truly wonderful and sincere person. It's so nice of you to give your time to help others restore their marriages not only at Retro but on here as well.
Hugs, Yoyo
Thanks, Yoyo. By the way, I didn't put that joke on your thread because you are a teacher. I just put it there because I thought it was funny.
Sara,
I loved the joke too. I didn't even think about the teacher thing. LOL
Hi Everyone,
Last night was a big night for us. We welcomed 22 couples to the Tampa Retrouvaille. A group of us graduates went down to welcome them and show them around. It was so good to see the team again -- the three couples who lead the program. We are so lucky to have one particular couple. They are so amazing to listen to and their love for each other shines so clearly through their eyes. The husband N, was saying how rewarding doing the weekends are for them, because they get to see the transformation in the couples. I asked when the transformation usually happens. N smiled, and told me this story, as an example of a transformation.
Ten years ago, N and his wife V were welcoming a new group to the weekend, when someone came running in and said, "You have to come outside, a wife is running down her husband with the car!" So they ran outside, and sure enough, there was the husband looking very shaken up in the middle of the driveway, and the wife was in the car in the circular drive, coming back around. V ran around to the driver's side of the car, and asked if she could talk to the wife. The wife said "OK", and they went off to the side and talked for about an hour. They came back and the wife said that she would stay for the weekend if she could have a separate room at the opposite end of the building from her husband. Then she changed her mind and said, "No. The minute I walk into that room, he will leave." So N told her, "No. Because he is going into his room, and locking the door and giving me the key." So they did. And the couple went through the weekend. On Sunday, during the wrap-up session, the wife stood up and said, "I know you think that I was trying to run him down with the car. I wasn't. But I wasn't trying to miss him either. We have been separated, and we are scheduled to be divorced on Wednesday. But tomorrow we are calling our lawyers and cancelling the divorce." Today this same couple volunteers as presenters for Retrouvaille.
Hi Sara,
That sounds so encouraging and rewarding at the same time. Even though I have read so much about Retrouvaille here and elsewhere, it is still hard for me to imagine how the transformation will truly work. I guess I will have to experience it in person and let it happen to me hoping that it will happen not only to me, but to us as a couple.
AN
Counting down the days for you now, AN. It will be good. I will look forward to hearing from you when you get back. You should think about taking the following Monday off if you can. It takes some time afterwards to get readjusted to all the change you've experienced.
I had not thought about taking off the day after Retro, but it happens to be a company holiday, so I will be off and home for that day.
Actually I am counting hours rather than days: 82 hours left!! In a way I am excited, but then I am very calm, because I know it will be a life changing experience, at a minimum for me.
Today I am journalling.
Last night was bad. I was on the computer in the study at 2 AM and S19 was in the kitchen making a snack. First I heard him curse, which is unusual because he is a very good cook. So I went in to see what happened. He was nursing a cut finger, and shooed me away. Not a minute later I heard odd loud noise coming from the kitchen. So I went back in and looked. He was lying flat on his back on the floor convulsing and making garbled noises. I ran over to him and asked what happened. He stopped convulsing and looked at me, with huge dilated pupils. He said, "I cut my finger". I had him show me the finger, it just had a small puncture, not bleeding. I said I know that, but why are you on the floor? He said, "I'm so hungry." I said, "But being hungry didn't make you lie on the floor. What happened?" He said he didn't know. He continued to lie there for another 5 minutes or so. We talked about what we should do. I told him that I would take care of him, but since he is the lifeguard, he would have to tell me what to do. He kept telling me to stay calm. So I said, I'll go look up concussions on the internet, and see what to do. He had me bring the laptop in and stay with him. So we looked up concussion, and did everything it said to do. We went to the emergency room.
They did a CT scan and put 2 staples in his head. The doctor said the brain looked normal. What a relief. So we went home. As he walked in the door, he vomited. Then he said he felt better and went to bed. It was 6 AM. He is still sleeping. But I checked on him. He says he is alright.
It is times like this that make me glad that I am a night owl. If I had not been up, he might still be lying on the floor. Before we left for the hospital, I woke my husband up and told him what happened and where I was going. He wanted to come with us. I told him no, he needed to sleep. But it was touching that he wanted to come.
I am so sorry. They tell us here to NOT let people with concussion sleep but wake them up every couple of hours. I hope he recovers soon.
xxx
K
Sara,
Wow! That's scary to hear that about J. Hope he is feeling better soon. I got a concussion when I was about his age. I remember that I had to stay lying down for a few days. Everytime I would sit or stand I would get nauseous.
Take this time to give him lots of TLC, they don't let us baby them much anymore!
Hugs, Yoyo
Sara! I hope that all is good with your son, what a scary thing to have happen!
Anothernightmare, all that Sara says about Retrouvaille is true, My H and I went over a year ago, and have to say that we had a similar experiance, this was our last hope weekend, we both knew that, and I do believe it saved us, and changed for us the way we communicate for the best.
I wish you nothing but the best for you weekend, and it is good you have the day off after as you will need it! I had to call in sick, as I was so drained, but in a good way!
Sara,
I am glad to hear that everything seems OK now. It is scary, and you may want to find out what made him pass out. Low blood pressure? Maybe just his bleeding finger? Maybe something more serious?
AN
Yes, I'm now thinking that he passed out first. If he had fallen while aware, he would have put his hands out. He fell on his back.
A lot of men pass out when they see...blood. Maybe that was it?
Sara,
I am so sorry for the huge scare you guys went through! Is J squeamish about blood, maybe?
There was a time I was giving blood a long time ago and I happened to look at it --- I have learned my lesson and I don't ever make that mistake anymore: I blacked out -- with spasms and twitching. The IV came out and blood went everywhere. Scared the living cr*p out of the attending nurse.
Now I just know not to ever look. Funny thing is I am a-okay with other people's blood. But if I see my own like that, I guess I can feel my brain draining.
(((((Sara)))))
I think I'd get him to the doc for a full checkup/bloodwork. I'm no doctor, but I'd want to know if there was something going on the caused him to pass out. The comment about being so hungry, and them passing out suggests that there might be a medical thing going on, to me.
Hope he's ok!
Blue,
You have a point there. He did pass out once after giving blood, when he was about 10 years old. But I didn't see any blood coming out of the finger. He kept insisting that it was a bad cut, that he had punctured his finger down to the bone. So he had run to his bedroom to put neosporin on it, and then back to the kitchen where he blacked out.
Hi Kalni, I now see that you suggested that too. Yeah, but would fainting cause the seizure, or did hitting his head cause the seizure?
Hi Kalni, I now see that you suggested that too. Yeah, but would fainting cause the seizure, or did hitting his head cause the seizure?
Hence the need to get a thorough check up!
I'm thinking that whatever it was started before he poked himself, maybe even caused it.
Sara,
Has your son started drinking a lot lately......water or soft drinks. I just wondered if it could be a diabetes related thing, esp. with hunger and a need to eat being involved.
I am sorry it was so frightening for you. ((((((HUGS))))))))
BTW, have you heard from GH31 recently?
Hmm, I can ask if his thirst is up. He does remember feeling funny before he blacked out. He was thinking that he would go lie down after he got the food. But he didn't make it that far. I do think it was the puncture wound that shook him up. And then perhaps the fit occurred because he hit his head on the floor. But he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He says that the doctor did a CT scan and looked at his brain, and told him it was fine and sent him home. He wants to follow the doctor's orders, which were to watch for symptoms such as nausea, loss of balance, loss of coordination, headaches, etc, none of which he has. He has to go to the doctor in a week to have the staples out.
Sara,
How is J feeling today? Has he experienced any of they symptoms that the dr. told him to watch out for? I know that when I had my concussion I had severe headaches and nausea everytime I tried to sit or stand. I had to stay in bed a couple of days. Hope he gets to feeling better soon.
I must share with you how I got my concussion, talk about a freak accident! I was in college and was at a nightclub. H who was then BF was also there, although we were broken up at the time. I danced with other guys and my then exBF came up to me afterwards and started griping me out. I was so mad that I left. It was during the winter and it was extremely cold and there was ice on the ground. Needless to say, hurrying to your car because you are freezing and ice on the ground don't mix. Down, I went. I landed on my behind very hard, I never hit my head. Honestly, I wondered if I had broken my tailbone. Well, the next day I woke up with the severe headaches and nausea. My dad took me to the dr. who told me that I had gotten a concussion from falling on the ice. He said that when I fell the impact cause my brain to slam against my skull. I took a lot of ribbing from that...I fell on my butt and got a consussion. The big joke was "Now we know where your brain is!"
Excellent story, Yoyo. J had a good day yesterday. Neither of us did much, but he walked and talked and felt fine. Soooo, H got rip roaring sick last night. For a while he thought he was having a heart attack, and sure enough, we had no aspirin in the house. So J went out and bought aspirin. By the time he got back, H was busy contaminating the bathroom with all kinds of disgusting bodily fluids. Apparently, lunch at the Indian restaurant did not agree with him. Yuck. I have to go buy rubber gloves and start cleaning.
Sara,
Bless your heart. Maybe you missed your calling as a nurse! I don't envy you having to clean the bathroom, I have a weak stomach when it comes to things like that!!!
Glad to hear J is feeling much better. Although, I hate to hear that your H was sick, I'm glad to hear that it was the food and not a heart attack!
After only 2 days I am ready to quit my job as the family nurse, and go back to the luxury of being the family maid. It was actually very nice to sleep in my daughter's room and have my own bathroom. The pets were a bit confused, but my morning, they had all found me.
Hopefully all the drama is over now!!!!!!!!
So, I'm looking for input here. I was standing in the kitchen, beginning to fix dinner and my H walks in and opens the refrigerator. He was sick last night, and I didn't know if he had eaten today. So, I asked if he had tried eating anything yet. He snapped at me, and told me to leave him alone. He went on to say that he was sick last night and hadn't eaten yet today, so he was entitled to be in a bad mood. Entitled to be in a bad mood? Is there such a thing? Who do you see to get this entitlement? Is there a paper they give you, and you show it to everyone you treat like [censored], and it is your entitlement paper? I want to know, cuz I don't think I've ever gotten one. Is anyone else familiar with this?
If so, he must have got it from the same place my STBXW did -- he had to have done so before she made a full run on the place however, and wiped them out, because she's got loads of entitlement.
Have you considered kindly and matter-of-factly calling your H out on his grumpiness -- let him know he has hurt you with his tone and give him the opportunity to rise to the plate? I'd let him know he does indeed have the liberty to be irritable, but also the responsibility to not abuse it.
Just a thought.
I'd be tempted to have a bit too much to drink, get one mother of a hangover, and obtain one of those sh!t cards for myself....see how that pans out. Oh, but make sure you buy some rubber gloves that fit your H first!!!!!!!!
I took the direct approach and told him that I was angry over the way he had treated me. That I had made a huge effort to clean everything up after him, and that he does not get freedom to act nasty just because he was sick. He apologized several times. I am not sure if the apologies were for snapping at me or for failing to clean up after himself. Perhaps it was for both. In his defense, he did say that he planned to clean once he was sure he wasn't going to die. I guess he considers it wasted effort to clean if one is about to die anyway.
You are too funny. My h gets those cards all the time. Whenever he has a bad day at work, a cow is sick, his mom has been annoying him, etc etc etc
I think that there must be like a Costco-type place where you can get the cards in bulk at a discount. Hope your H hasn't stocked up on them!
Glad you took the high road and just told him how it was. I am working on doing the same...
I guess I handled it alright. Tonight my H walked in from work with a dozen roses and a red velvet cake, and when he handed them to me he said, "It's been a really hard week, and I want you to know that I love you and I will go through the tough times with you." (Of course, that does relieve him of all V-day responsibilities). I was pretty floored.
Happy Valentines Day, Sara.
I just read about the roses and the cake (I Know, 2 weeks delay
), you know what? I was pretty floored too... LOL!
K
You give people hope.I like your attitude and your strength. I think you have managed a fine balance in your R and your personal boundaries and needs. I am sure Mr. Sara is doing a good job too but somehow I feel you are leading with this, even by choosing not to... Thanks for all your help.
Sara, I read what you wrote about love being a decision not a committment. I think that is a Retro typr mantra. Would you be willing to start a thread based on that concept and get a dialouge flowing on what "love is a decision means" ?
Cheers
Good idea, Coach. I just wrote something about my thoughts on that on Another Nightmare's thread. I will go start a new thread.
Yes! Do! I find it to be so true but a lot of WAS' seem to disagree....
Just as some people have better control over their bodies, and therefore are better at sports, I believe some people have better control over their thoughts. But to think that love is something that happens to you with no effort on your part, is to resign yourself to a life of short-term love only. And I don't know how that equates to love within the family. I know I have a brother I find less than lovable, and sometimes my kids are not lovable for years on end. How does how I feel about them fit into a definition of love. Romantic love, invented in the middle ages to keep younger sons of wealthy families busy so they would not attack their older siblings' property, was never meant to be married love. It was love from afar of an older married woman.
Hi Sara,
I am participating in the newcomers forum. I would like to invite my husband to a Retrovaille weekend but I am not sure when it is an appropriate time to do so. We are separated and living in separate households. Also, my husband is without religion, aethiest and has no interest in religion. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Smiles,
There is no right time. If there is a third party involved, then that would not be a good time. Both spouses need to agree to attend with an open mind and a willing heart. But it is very common for one person to be going with a desire to reconcile, and the other to be just willing to attend, but not hoping to reconcile. The weekend works on teaching good communication skills. Whether you use those skills to rebuild the marriage, or cooperate on a divorce is up to the couple.
There are no religious requirements. It is open to everyone of any faith, or no faith. Retrouvaille does receive funding from the Catholic Church, which makes it much more affordable than private programs. The website is
http://www.helpourmarriage.org. The contact person for your local group can give you more information. Feel free to call them.
Thank you Sara.
As far as I know there is no third party.
Thanks for your feedback.
Sometimes these threads seem to get left behind.
So, if you read my other thread, you know that I forced my husband to go to a not so great long, loud, dark, bellydance event tonight, with pretty poor food. He doesn't mind going to bellydance events with beautiful sexy bellydancers and good food. In fact, that is his idea of a good time. But this wasn't it. Now he is mad at me, and I am hiding in the study.
so, the question is....what did I learn at Retrouvaille that will help me with this situation?
I told him to go ahead and say whatever he wanted to say about the bad saturday night. He did, a little. But he said he didn't want to talk about it. So that makes two of us. Do we need to open up and talk about our feelings on this? Or can we sweep it under the rug? Does anything ever go under that rug and not pop up like a broken bedspring right under your hip when you are trying to sleep? Can I take the chance? I just don't know.
Sara,
Maybe he doesn't want to talk about it too much because he knows deep down he is being a grump and spoiling 'your' night. After some sleep he may be able to explain it better. Having you dance for him is one thing....being in that enviroment is another.
so, the question is....what did I learn at Retrouvaille that will help me with this situation?
Sara,
If I remember Correctly the purpose of Retro was:
1. to be able to express your feelings
2. to be able to understand your partners feelings
Right?
Seems you understand his feelings already. I would not try to drag anything more out of him unless he gives it on his own.
You can express your feelings so he understands where you are comming from and maybe he will feel more open to express more of his..
Doc
Doc
Thanks, guys. Yeah, this too shall pass. But I wasn't that nice to him all day yesterday, so that compounds it. I hope we won't lose that Retro feeling. If we do, we will have to go back. There is something to just seeing those people. We become so cooperative and gentle with each other the minute we walk into any event they sponsor.
Sara,
I lost your E-Mail can you E-mail me PLEASE
Doc
Whew! This thread has resting for so long I had trouble finding it. There's a lot of good stuff here. Jag, I think you said you wanted to see it.
Sara,
I just caught up with the thread. Thanks for sharing so much about the program. There is no Retro session offered in my state at least for a few more months - but we're probably not ready yet. I'll be waiting patiently and when it's time we'll give it a try.
Orange,
Glad to hear that you will give it a try. It's only offered 3 or 4 times a year in any place. Here in Florida we often have people fly in for the weekend, and then take a day or two at the beach too. The weekend is a revelation and well worth the effort, wherever you do it. I need to start preparing for the next session here in Tampa, it is later this month.
Sara,
I "left a message" for you on my thread...
Take a look,
K
K,
Thanks. I found it. But it's always good to give me a heads up.
Sara,
Thank you for pointing me towards this thread. Retro sounds very encouraging, I hope W will agree to attend. The next one in my state is the weekend of 9/11 (spooky).
I have a question for you and anyone else who can offer advice.
Do you think it is better to ask W in person to attend, or to send her an email?
I see the advantage of asking in person being the sincerity and gravity of the request, however it also puts her on the spot and may elicit a knee-jerk response of no.
Sending an email takes off the pressure of being cornered with the request, gives her the opportunity to read about it, think about it and give an answer after consideration, yet it is impersonal and can be ignored if chosen.
Thanks for any guidance.
I think it depends on the situation. i think sending an email with a link to the website can be a good way to ask. She might take a few minutes to click on the link and give it some thought. Or you could print a few pages of the website, especially the ones about the 4 stages of marriage and send it as a regular letter. That way the pages are in her hands, and she is more likely to give them a look.
Hmmm, that's a good suggestion. I hadn't thought of going "old school" and sending an actual letter. I think that may be the ticket, send it to her office, type out the envelope so she doesn't recognize my handwriting on it and immediately get her wall up. Thanks Sara!
HAPPY MOTHERS DAY.... Sara
Doc
So my S25 has been kicked out by his GF37. He has anger management issues, and she is a divorced mother of 2 and is not taking sh** from another man. Good for her! He does get to go see her on occasion, but she is demanding real change from him. He went to see a counselor this week, and he said it was helpful. But he wouldn't tell me anything about the session, or even if he is going back. I recommended that they go to Retrouvaille, that they could learn a lot from the weekend. He wouldn't consider it. So odd, he was here in the house the weekend my H and I went to Retrouvaille. He has seen the difference in us. But still, at this point, that knee-jerk reaction. Nope, rather wallow in my slop than take a chance on changing myself.
Took me a long time to find this thread. for one thing, I forgot that it was in piecing. I spend more time in Newcomers and Infidelity so I was looking there.
Anyway, 25 years MLC, my story is written out pretty fully here with a lot of info on what it's like to go to Retrouvaille. I can't imagine trying to piece after a serious event like an affair without it. They insisted on the forgiving and the trusting, without waiting for the feelings to just come. And they were completely right.
sooo, how's S25?
miss ya sweetie. we are better than ever (macy too).
S25 is doing OK. GF let him back in the house, so I guess he is exhibiting improved behavior around her. I wish it extended into my house too. D24 is building a townhouse in Abita. Should be done in August. After that, we'll have a place to stay when we visit N.O.
oooh, I love Abita... we're still considering settling there-- we just love the Brew Pub!~ see ya there, lol.
Financially things have just imploded. I still don't even have the phone situation taken care of. If D24 needs any building advice, I know an amazing builder.
I guess the good news is that in the past we let financial problems screw us up and are working really well together this time around. In a weird way we are all getting closer.
I had worried that when S17 (omg, I can't believe he's graduated) goes to Parris Island later this season that he'd be bummed out (he missed a lot of time with him while going nuts in NOLA) and even worried about being "stuck" with me. He's actually really excited about it.
Lots of tests and a community phone that has to be totally transparent probably had a lot to do with the ease with which the trust has been restored... but I know you remember my insecurity in the beginning during hurricane season, and I must conclude it was just time.
taking dance classes this summer from s17's gf's dad.
I had to stay away for a while, but I've been reading along in newcomers for a few. Had to say hi and update you.
TO: Sara,
I am sorry to go on this thread as I dont even know what it is about. but... I was googling the Retrouvaille in Tampa and found some old threads of yours on this retreat... I am trying to coordinate going in August, and have loads of questions. such as Location, time frames etc. I started the pre-registration on tuesday but have not heard back. My husband is in another state and I am in another florida city. He has asked for a divorce but has agreed to go to the weekend. Needless to say I am very anxious to know if there is even an opening and if so, what time it starts and ends, so that I can buy his plane tickets to come. To assume I am a basket case would be correct smile any information you can give to me would be greatly appreicated..
Mary,
You can find locations and dates of upcoming Retrouvaille weekends on their website,
www.helpourmarriage.org.I am located in Tampa and volunteer to help that group. There are several other chapters in Florida. It does take a while to hear back from them as everyone is a volunteer and they fit the Retrouvaille work into their lives. They will call you. I don't know what dates you are looking at, but if it is not coming up in the next 2 weeks, they are probably not booked up yet. I know the Tampa group tries to accomodate everyone who registers.
Feel free to ask questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
Thank you for responding.
I have read the page and unfortunately the one local to me is not until Oct... Based on all of the dynamics it would not work for me to wait that long. So I am expecting to drive down to Tampa for the August one... The website really gives no information other than the date for the weekend it is held..what I was wondering was what time on Friday do they start and what time on Sunday do they end. I can t wait until 2 weeks before the date to book flights etc. I thought maybe they followed the same schedule each time?
OK, Tampa one I know. It's starts Friday night at 7:30 and ends by 5:00 on Sunday. There should be an email address for the contact person on the website. Yes, it is the same schedule each time.
On the Retrouvaille.org website, when you check out the weekend dates, if you click on "more info" it gives you the contact info for the Tampa group. We have a few different locations that we use for the weekends, so I don't know yet where this one will be held. But I am usually there to greet people.
Thank you.. and do you know where it is held? I wasnt sure if you have a specific retreat place in Tampa or if you do it at a different place each time.
I did receive a generic email thanking me for the pre registration on Tuesday and I sent an email back to the address it for the volunteers asking for this information. I understand that they are buzy and this is volunteer work, but I must admit I have been impatiently waiting for an answer. that would be because my H has stated he wants a divorce and wants me out of the house by the time he comes back from out of state in October... I have gotten him to agree to come to this, but he is sure that he is done... I must admit I am putting all of my eggs in the basket of that weekend!! so I thank you very much for all of the info you can provide on the wheres and whens so I can alleviate my anxiety.
The site has alot of soothing information and I am looking forward to the experience. However basic information is not there..It would be great if there was a section that gives you information on location (address?), time, attire recommended etc
.. any thing you can share on these items and other would be greatly appreciated!
Sorry, I was working on my note when you did yours
Do you know when they will determine which facility they will be at.. but actually it is not as important as my other questions and also me actually being completely registered.. Ok, I am hearing you in my ear saying .. calm down and breathe... my anxiety is in the fact that I have absolutely no control or vote in what he wants or feels, we are not even living in the same place due to his job. so I guess being able to coordinate this will make me feel like I was able to do Something instead of being depressed and non functional each day ... Thank you
Mary,
The registration people will contact you before the weekend, and will ask to speak to each of you to be sure that you both agree to go. So I hope that he will continue to say that he is willingly going. I really don't know where it will be held in August, and I probably won't find out until a couple of weeks before the event. They will probably tell you before they tell me. The 2 locations that are usually used are within Tampa itself, both on the grounds of Church retreats. They are very conducive to a contemplative weekend. My husband and I had a very good experience at a Tampa Retrouvaille weekend. I hope that you will too.
Sara,
thank you for your time
I look forward to meeting you.
I looked up the ST P Diocese and found it on the Lutz calendar.. So that was good !! it also had a 6pm start and a 5 pm end time noted.
I am looking at the flights, as he will have to go back to Maine on sunday. I am finding a 5:00 pm flight.. but assume we will need to leave around 3:30 to get him to the airport timely.
Is there alot that goes on during the last few hours of the weekend? Do you think this time will be ok to leave?
Again, thank you!
If you leave at 3:30, it should be alright.
Sara,
thank you for your time. he has decided that he does not want to go. as he lives in another state,due to his job.. there really is nothing I can do...
Mary,
I'm sorry to hear that. Perhaps in time he will change his mind. We really never know what the future will bring.
Retrouvaille is from the french word to rediscover. It is a contemplative weekend thinking about your marriage and your life. What you want in life. And talking one on one with your spouse. It's not marriage counseling. It's not group therapy. It's easier to say what it isn't than to say what it is. I've tried to put a lot of info about Retrouvaille on this thread for those who are lucky enough to have a spouse who will go to the weekend with them.
Hey Sara,
Retrouvaille was great. I really enjoyed it. I think if wife and I went now it would make a differance. There is no way I could get wife to do it agian though. She has told me countless times how she hated it. But I do think it made her reailze what she did and how it affected our marriage.
I think timming is inportant and although if we did not go when we did may not still be togeather...if we would have waited until now it would have had a bigger turn around affect. I guess is't damed if you do and damed if you don't...
No word from W yet but I am sure they were up drinking late and are sleeping right now.. Gotto get son to school....
Take care
Doc
Sara was banned from the DB board and her thread drifted into the past. I am resurrecting it so that people who are interested in Retrouvaille can get this information. I have also been to Retrouvaille and had a very good result. There are several others here who have been. Doc (above) and 25yearsMLC come to mind, and Puppy, so there are a few people who can help if I can't.
Lotus
Sad to hear that. I always got good support and advice from Sara. I too went to Retro, and had a wonderful experience. I can't say enough good things about the Retro program though. Ex really didn't want to go in the beginning and was very hesitant. There was really an amazing turn around in just the one weekend. Not just for us, but you could see it in all the other couples also. Unfortunately, things didn't quite work out as hoped, and divorce finalized back in June. Guess you can't save everyone. LOL. On the brighter side, things are going very well. It's not all bad after the big D.
This is for TrentC. There's a lot of good info about the Retrouvaille experience on this thread. Feel free to ask more questions.
A friend just reminded me of another benefit of Retrouvaille that I don't believe has been mentioned yet. At the end of the weekend, they give you contact information for all the lead couples who presented their stories to the group. We were encouraged to contact these people with any questions or problems that we ran into after leaving. This was wonderful! My husband and I reached an impasse on something a week or two after leaving the weekend. And since we couldn't agree, we called our favorite lead couple from the weekend and talked to both husband and wife about the issue. i don't remember now what they said, but at the time, it was exactly what we both needed to hear. And we resolved our problem and went on. It was wonderful to know that those people cared personally about us and were available if we needed them.
Lotus, Thanks for resurrecting this thread. Lots of great information.
Any idea why Sara was banned?
From what I heard, Sara was banned for giving out personal contact info.
That's why I warn people about posting their own.
A friend just reminded me of another benefit of Retrouvaille that I don't believe has been mentioned yet. At the end of the weekend, they give you contact information for all the lead couples who presented their stories to the group. We were encouraged to contact these people with any questions or problems that we ran into after leaving. This was wonderful! My husband and I reached an impasse on something a week or two after leaving the weekend. And since we couldn't agree, we called our favorite lead couple from the weekend and talked to both husband and wife about the issue. i don't remember now what they said, but at the time, it was exactly what we both needed to hear. And we resolved our problem and went on. It was wonderful to know that those people cared personally about us and were available if we needed them.
I think most Retro communities are really very close and supportive. When my W ODed during more turbulent times, the presenting couples were all there for me.
When my son was born last week, the first visitors outside of immediate family was a presenting couple.
That's really good to hear, Deep. Is your son considered a Retrouvaille baby, or would he have had to be conceived on the weekend?
And Trent is right. Sara broke the rule about giving out contact info. i think it had to do with facebook.
Umm, I would think actual conception on the weekends (given the situations that bring people there) would indeed be a near miracle!
And yes, I believe my son is considered a Retrouvaille baby, from what I understand, they had in excess of 40+ in the last 15 years or so. Not bad at all.
Does Retrouvaille work for couples that are already divorced...or even ones who werent married but were in a long term relationship?
Is there a suggested time limit on how soon it would need to be attended after the separation?
What does one do if one does not suspect but does not know if there is a 3rd party involved?
I can answer that for you. It's never too late. Yes, if a couple is divorced they can come to a weekend if they are ready to try. It is not for couples that have never been married, although you could ask to be sure since it looks like you have a child together.
There is no suggested time limit. Sooner the better I would assume.
The Retrouvaille people will call before the weekend stating that there can be NO third party involved, and they will ask to make sure.
The tools that Retro provides are wonderful for improving communications in general for any relationship, but the weekends are geared towards relationships in crisis. When I went through the weekend, I thought that what they taught should be mandatory for couples entering into a marriage. There are no suggested time limits, and I think in most cases one of the partners is generally a reluctant participant. What I observed on the first weekend was an incredible transformation to how the couples interacted and communicated.
I'm not sure how well it would work for divorced couples unless there has been a joint decision to try and work things out again. There is ongoing 'homework' and several follow up weekends. It would be hard to get through this with two people that are communication challenged and living seperately.
As far as 3rd party, Retro requires that any other relations have ended prior to attending the weekend. A 3rd person in the picture is counter productive to the process.
Agreed with both WDID and HFF. They call the couple before they take the registration and ask if any third party is involved. They also ask if each will come with an open mind and a willing heart. I don't believe that you need to have been legally married. Every couple there has a different story. There is no time limit for saving marriages.
While most marriages can be restored, it is God's will, not ours. I encourage folks who are interested, to check out the program, and pray about it.
Like DB'ing, it's not an overnight thing, but more of a process or lifestyle choice. Many on the boards have attended, including myself. (full disclosure: After much prayer, I've learned that my marriage can not, and should not be saved) Goldey
p.s. I was going to suggest Sara, but I'm just seeing she's not here. Dr. LOve is another.
I'm busy for the next few days, but will answer questions next week, as I am familiar w/ the structure. Due to the confidential nature, there are some parts I cannot, and will not disclose.
Hmmmmm.....Sara may not be here but I understand Lotus is pretty good on this topic.
oh if only there were a magic button to get my WAH to be willing to do something like this. anyone have suggestions on bringing up this kind of option to someone who is resisting doing anything to repair the marriage? (we've been in counseling together for about a year...he just dropped the separation bomb about 20 days ago and has said he is not interested in working on things because he doesnt' want to)
Tell him that it's just one weekend.
Can he give you 2 days and 2 nights to try and work on the relationship?
It is true, a weekend is a short time to invest; it's not like a year of counseling. Some people negotiate to get the spouse there, giving him something he wants if he will do what you want. But the truth is the weekend is not likely to change him if he goes in with his mind made up. People can change, and they do. But when they have created walls in their minds, they may not be open to change at that time.
I've long offered this advice when one spouse is willing and the other is unsure...
Someone has to pick up the phone first. Why not let it be you?
I was surprised when I learned that half the time, the W makes the first call, and the other half, it's the H. Really? 50/50?
Each one has to make their own call, in their own way, on their own timeline.
Make the call...update your spouse and offer the number.
And here's the important part...ASK. Ask them to please make this call. That's it.
Let the team do their job. They know what they are doing.
My Retrouvaille Experience -
Hi everyone. Some of you know me, some don't. I was on the boards about 8 years ago and then unfortunately again starting coming up on 3 years ago. I keep in touch off the boards with a few people and one of them asked me to tell you about my experience.
A short background for me.......
After being married for 10 years, my H & I had our first and only child. Being a new mom at 36, working full-time, working different schedules & being married to a functioning alcoholic took it's toll on me. I became depressed, overweight, tired, uninterested in sex.....etc. The list goes on. My H was always a bit of a selfish man....which he admits. He did a great job of taking care of our daughter when I worked during the day & he was home with her. He didn't feel that I gave him the kudos he deserved and I admit that I didn't give him what he needed. He's probably what you'd consider a Touch-Affirmation kind of guy. All that lead to my H beginning what was his 2nd A during our marriage. It was with a woman he worked with. It lasted over 2 years. It became so serious that they looked at houses & put deposits down on furniture. She, was married with 4 children. Those that do know me know that I experienced each and every emotion possible. I finally came to the point where I was done. I'd seen an attorney and was ready to file for D. My H knew that too. I asked him to leave. He went from crying to very angry. The entire time I had no emotion. No love, no hate. I just wanted out. All this, even after the A had ended and he'd promised again & again for over a month to change. Now, you need to understand that not only did the A last for over 2 years, but his drinking took it's toll too. He'd done what I'd considered unforgivable things and the only thing I had on my mind was protecting our D5 from growing up in an alcoholic family....as I had. One other significant issue was that whenever things got tough, we moved to another state, H changed jobs, or even pushed it to having an A. Anything to escape and for him to think he could get a fresh start
Enter Retrouvaille. 2 years ago in December, I asked my H to attend Retro with me. He flat out refused. My argument for it was like ones I've seen on the board.....What will 1 weekend hurt? He still wouldn't go. So, when he asked me to go, at first I said no. I told him it would never help. Then my father-in-law called and begged me to go. I thought it was a horrible thing for him to do at the time but now I thank him. I promised him I would go. I told my H I would attend, the whole time remembering what I'd told him 2 years before....what could one weekend hurt and that I was only going for our D5?
The Friday night that we left for the hotel I was sick to my stomach & thankfully the car was dark because I was crying. We dropped off our D and went to the hotel. I was the one that sat with my arms crossed and was angry. I was amazed to see 35 couples in our group....one of the biggest they'd had in a while.
I was unsure of how things would work. I mean, how can any method possibly save this broken marriage? My thought at the beginning of the weekend was....if anything, this will be my time to tell him how I feel, to finally get it ALL out. Over the weekend we both brought down the barriers that we'd built up for so long. We've been together for almost 19 years and the walls were really high. Retrouvaille provided an incredibly safe, comforting atmosphere for us to open up to each other. We talked about issues that we haven't talked about in years or have never talked about. Specifically, the alcohol issue came up. My H knew that his drinking affected me but admitted that weekend that he had no idea how deeply it did.....or what it could end up doing to our D5. She's already experienced some of the things that come with his drinking and she didn't deserve any more. We talked about my problems too. One of the other issues we had was the way he would encourage me to do something and then when I did well, he'd either downplay it or make me feel like I didn't deserve it. He admitted how he had done it as a control method. We also discussed the running. He said that he saw it now and admitted it. He runs when things get tough, always looking for that fresh start. He said...I don't get a second chance to be a good Dad...I hope to get one last chance to be a good husband...and I promise you before God that I will never run again...I will stay and work through it with you. Those are just three things....but we got into a lot of feelings that weekend. When I went to sleep that Sunday night at home I slept without tension for the first time in over 2 years. I knew we had a long way to go but we had a good start under our belts.
My H and I have kept up with the weekend Post sessions and plan on becoming part of their CORE group as well. When we get through with the Post, we plan on each getting counseling for issues we both have.....including my H's drinking. My H has become a much better father & husband. YES....we do still have a long way to go. BUT, we both feel that it was worth it and that we can get back what we had if we just keep at it. Our D5 has an actual family instead of a mom & dad that do their own things. My H has cut his drinking dramatically, almost to nothing. He had said that he wanted to quit and I suggested getting professional help for that. OH...that weekend was the first time that my H admitted that he had a problem.
I know it's a long story, but I wanted to add my story to show that it works. Trust me when I say that my friends here on DB, my friends that I've known for years and my family all knew that things were bad....really bad. My family was the first to see the changes in us. They were amazed and very happy. My H went home with me for Christmas for the 1st time in 4 years. It was relaxing and very enjoyable. Oh, we also joined a bible study with some friends. It's something I've always wanted to do and H agreed to do it with me, as it's something he said he needed too.
Retrouvaille has changed our lives. I hope you have the opportunity to see if it can change yours.
Hugs and love...
SueS
Sue,
What a wonderful story! Well, I mean the last part! I so happy that you and your husband were able to make the changes to be a happy family. It's amazing, isn't it? I know some people believe that people can't change. But your story is proof that people can change, and they can change dramatically, if they choose to.
I hope you will continue to post here and share your advice with others.
Reminded me poignantly again of what can happen at Retrouvaille of both parties can open their hearts and minds ...
(((((Sue)))))
OH...that weekend was the first time that my H admitted that he had a problem.
THAT's a big step. The first and most important one to recovery. M requires constant work and is difficult enough even without substance abuse issues.
I am happy for you that you are all on the path now. I will continue to pray for the three of you as you go forward now.
Hugs and blessings.
Our journey began probably as so many people's do: we loaded up the car for the weekend. My wife was reluctant, and her nervousness was expressed through hostility. When we got lost on the way to the retreat, she was upset that I didn't know how to get there.
When we pulled up and the assisting couples helped us gather our things, we were both polite. As the one who had initiated the contact, I knew a little of what was to transpire tonight.
We signed in, got our room keys and were led to our room. We were both relieved to see that we did get a room with separate beds; things were incredibly tense, and I don't think either of us would have slept well that night if we had had to share a bed.
When we understood what the weekend was going to ask of us, my wife freaked out. This was so much the opposite of her way of dealing with things: she told me on our way home that if it wasn't so late, she would have insisted that we go home. As it was, she told me that she didn't know how much she could take and that we would probably leave on Saturday.
I was amazed at the sheer courage of the presenting couples. These people were rehashing their own private hell in front of dozens of people. I cried as one man described his feelings about his wife's infidelity, and I take hope that our marriage can recover the way theirs did; they seem so full of love for each other.
As the weekend wore on, we covered a lot of ground. My wife acknowledged that she had no excuse for the EA she had developed. She didn't go looking for it, and she didn't realize what was going on as it was developing. I uncovered some ugly truths about how I had behaved during our marriage, and how my insecurity had been used to manipulate her feelings.
By the end of the weekend, my wife and I were in better spirits. She struck up some conversation with the other couples, and actually gave her email address and phone number to one woman who shared a passion for knitting and craftwork. When one of the presenting women hugged us at the end of the weekend, my wife remarked that she "hugged the way a mom is supposed to hug you. My mother doesn't do that."
On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate the overall experience as a 6. (Yes, that's Retrouvaille humor...) I did not experience the magical transformation that some other couples have reported, but we each got a better sense of where the other person is, and it has given me a sense of how to handle things as we move forward. My feelings of optimism have not changed, and my wife moved away from "this is the last chance I have in me" to "we'll see where this takes us." Both of us have wondered where our lives would be had we learned of this program years ago, when the relationship began to cool off and grow distant.
I have not asked my wife for a commitment to go to the post sessions yet; when she is exhausted, she can be very negative. I will give it a day or two, then bring it up. I will ask her to do the daily homework assignments.
Boy, is the post-Retro crash hitting!
I got almost 9 hours of sleep last night and I'm still lounging in bed. And that's just the physical exhaustion!
Trent-
I would have to say that I think it was a bit of a magical transformation for you two. You said that your wife moved away from it being the very last chance. That's huge, especially if she was in the place or state of mind that I was in when we went.
We did have what seemed to be a big transformation on our weekend but I am in no way saying that life is perfect now. We still have miles to go but as you said, we're in a better place and have a better way to deal with it all.
It's interesting to me to see where we stand on certain issues and how different our feelings can really be about them. We had opposing views and feelings on certain things but then when we had to write about a shared experience to show our feelings, we often would write about the same experience. One that caught us both off guard was how we'd both written about how my Grandmother's death affected us and how we'd come together to comfort each other at that time. She was an absolutely incredible woman who touched everyone she met. Yes, I knew her that way but I had no idea she'd had that affect on my H or meant that much to him.
I feel the same about the presenting couples as you do. They are incredible people. I've thought about how much it helped us. My H and I both cried during the weekend when certain subjects were talked about in the presenters situations. I think listening to how one of the wives was affected by her H's affair really hit home to my H. He finally saw that it wasn't just me falling apart at time. That was how the A really, truly affected me.
I encourage you to go to the post sessions. There have been two presenting couples from our weekend & post sessions that have said that the weekend had little affect on them.....BUT, the post sessions really did it for them. My biggest "AH HA" from the weekend was when they said that we all have our own timelines for forgiveness. Some have been cut deeper than others. And, that forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting.
A wonderful lady on this board talked about Retro 2-3 years ago. I researched it because of her. I'm glad I went. I wish we would have gone earlier or known of it earlier. However, I think we both had to be in the right place, time & mindset for it to be right for us. Thankfully it was all of those.
NOCODE!!! Thanks for the post. I'm hoping to have time to get back here more often. Work & life have been busy, busy, busy. And, my FIL had been sick too.
Saffie....got your message. Thanks sweetie!
Take Care- Sue
Sue!!! I'm really happy to hear that H has started turning things around WRT to the drinking. I hope the good news keeps on coming for you!!
It is true that is seems so easy for the spouse to underestimate the intensity of your feelings until he/she hears them expressed by someone else. Then they are really moving! That is one of the things I liked best about Retrouvaille. My husband heard everything about how I felt, but it didn't come from me!
We went to our first post session.
First, a confession; I mentioned that I asked her to do the daily homework on Wednesday, and she didn't want to. So I told her I would email her the question, we could write on it separately, then come back together. I found out today that she had written on the question, and was waiting for me to bring it up. I, assuming from her previous reactions that she was just going to ignore the email, did not.
So I will begin emailing her the questions and writing on them myself, regardless of what she does.
The first post session was a big difference from the intensity of the weekend. At the end, I asked her if she would consider going to next week's session, and she said "I don't know yet."
T,
It seems to me that you indulge her too much. There is real work to do, and it won't get done if you don't pursue it. The homework is very important. The post sessions are good, but they can't fix your marriage. You guys have to do the work. My H was lazy when we got home. I insisted that we had to dialogue not less than 4 times a week. 20 minutes four times a week is not a huge imposition on anyone's time!
Hi,
I have been thinking about Retrouvaille for some time but unfortunately my seperated wife and I are not there yet. She is still in withdrawal from her A and deciding if she wants to make the marriage work again. She doesn't want to take the easy way back tot he marriage I do have a question though. Much of what my W is currently going through has alot to do with herself, even though she blames the demise of the marriage 100% on me (Trust me I own my issues and have resolved them and she has recognized this)but she doesn't see that she has a part to play (i.e low self esteem childhood issues). She is also going through MLC and discovered her sexuality through this affair. Does Retrouvaille addressissues of the "self" and help the unfaithful spouse understand the affair?
Does Retrouvaille addressissues of the "self" and help the unfaithful spouse understand the affair?
Retrouvaille is aimed primarily at helping two spouses reconnect and learn to communicate effectively. While you can use the tools they supply to help discuss these issues, you are really encouraged to focus on where you are presently and how to improve the relationship going forward.
A quote from yesterday's post session: "You can't change the past, and you can't predict the future; all you can do is focus on the here and now."
TrentC,
I am off to my Retrouvaille weekend this weekend with my reluctant wife. She hasn't said this is our last chance, but I feel that it is.
Any advice as it appears it went pretty well for you.
The same advice I was given:
* Go with an open heart and an open mind.
* Trust the presenting couples and the process.
A lot of the couples who are there will be in the same boat as you are, if not worse; there was one couple that left late Friday or early Saturday on our weekend, and there is another couple that are obviously uncomfortable with each other, even at the post sessions.
I won't say that we are out of the woods, but it gave us a good starting point to hopefully rebuild our relationship.
Thanks I will try it. Did your spouse come with an open heart and open mind?
I am worried mine is not but have been given good advice not to challenge her on her motives before the weekend and trust the process.
Seems like a lot of people are asking about Retrouvaille today. You can read through this thread, and then post any questions. There are several people on this website who have been to Retrouvaille weekends all over the US and in Canada.
Good to 'see' you Lotus!!!
In my case my H entered the weekend unwilling (he claimed unable) to let go of his preconceived notions and unwilling to forgive/accept...
That being said I think for a large number of couples Retro is the ideal tool/experience for helping them give new life and new breath to their marriage relationship/commitment. I found the program itself to be absolutely fabulous...
Thanks, BobbiJo. Glad you came back to visit. i know you are being pursued by many men these days! I'm sure you will put those tools to good use with your next serious relationship. A lot of couples could benefit from the Retrouvaille training before marriage, rather than waiting for a crisis.
Strange night. I walked into the bedroom while my H was watching a movie called "Short Time" about a cop who thinks he has a deadly disease and wants to get killed in the line of duty, so he is doing all kinds of heroic things. Just as I walked in he was telling his estranged wife how much she meant to him. I sat down on the bed and watched with my H. He reached out and started touching me. It's funny how hearing someone else say loving words made him feel loving. He's not a very expressive person, and he never says "I love you", but seeing him react to that movie told me that he loves me without him saying anything.
Just a note for those of you who ma remember "BeautyMe".
I spoke to her quote a bit (we live in the same area). She attended Retro with a great deal of fear, and not a lot of hope.
It went very well all things considered. I understand she and her H both realise they have a ton of work to do but the miracle is that they both see it that way and have committed to working through it together. Really happy for her!
Thanks
Thanks, both of you! I guess I should have checked my thread on my birthday! I do remember BeautyMe; I believe she was Japanese. I am happy that Retrouvaille helped her. I wish more people would try it. It is depressing to see so many go the route of divorce.
Goodness, I'm lucky I found my thread, it's 6 months since I last posted here. This thread contains a lot of information on the Retrouvaille program, and who knows what else! I have the thread in Piecing, but Retrouvaille is a turning point. It is the time and place where you stop tearing your marriage apart and start putting it back together. It comes before Piecing. So don't be afraid to think about going to Retrouvaille if you are not piecing yet. Perhaps I put the thread in the wrong place. I can say for sure that when we went to Retrouvaille, we were not piecing. We were lost and didn't know which way to turn. Retrouvaille was the life preserver floating on the ocean that pulled us in to shore.
Your marriage is like a home that your entire family lives in. When the structure is damaged, it becomes an unpleasant place to live. But there are ways to rebuild the structure. One very successful way is the Retrouvaille program. You can read about it on this thread, or go to
www.helpourmarriage.org for more information.
Found the lost thread.....
Every story is unique, every marriage different, but so much of it seems the same, too. The Retrouvaille program is focused on helping husbands and wives communicate openly and honestly with each other, but doing it in a fair and constructive way. They teach you the difference between fair fighting and unfair fighting, and it is eye-opening. I'll bet we all do the unfair fighting and then wonder why we have marital problems. It only takes a weekend, but it can change your life in that weekend.
My sitch is that my H had an EA from June to Nov 2010, although he always maintains that it was really more one sided. The OW cut it off in NOvember, but presently, my H has some communication with her, which he says is about work.
After a deep talk over the weekend on the state of things, before we accept that our M is really over, we need to be sure, as people and marriages are not disposable. He thinks that the fact that he got attracted to another woman means he did not love me strongly enough. He cannot seem to grasp that loving is a choice. Because of that, and because he is very guilty of hurting both me and our D12, he is depressed.
This led us to thinking of our external resources, and I explained to H what Retrouvaille is. He is now interested in going. Not necessarily to save our marriage, but at least to fix our present situation where we can't even talk to each other. If ever we go our separate ways, then at least if we are able to communicate better perhaps it won't go the way of Bittersville.
We also think this may shed some light on whether we can be "saved" or not.
Of couyrse for me, I love my H and all I want is for our family to bewhole again.
Right now, we still are in the same home, share a bed, and try to be good parents. We both go to church, and I believe in his heart my H is a good person.
Oops, I clicked submit to early ....
I wanted to know if Retrouvailled would help us, and if its OK to go even if H is still in contact with OW. I know they have downgraded to more of a "friendship", but I am sure my H still has feelings for her. he tells me though that he knows it will lead to nowhere.
I'm not sure why you may not have gotten a reply from some otehr posters yet Angel
Retrouvaille can help. Whether it will depends on how much you and your spouse put into it.
There is a requirement that the A must be over to attend the program. For some people that means NC. In my case, W then agreed reluctantly to end the A, but NC was by no means established.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
"Your marriage is like a home that your entire family lives in. When the structure is damaged, it becomes an unpleasant place to live. But there are ways to rebuild the structure."
well Lotus ... my "home" seems to need consant maitanance...
But YES Retrouvaille was the begining.. it was like getting an estamate on the repairs and if they were worth while....And they were....
just to chime in,
Retrovaille was a pleasant surprise for us. We thought it would be a tune up but it was more of an overhaul.
Nothing was public except the "host couples" and their problems, which they had resolved, and which therefore made ours seem more manageable.
I HIGHLY recommend it. We had attended a workshop for individual/personal growth 2 decades ago that was also great, but it was not aimed specifically at marriages. That was called Essential Experience, but it is NOT nation wide, like Retrovaille is.
We went to Los Angeles for Retrovaille (it's nearby) and it was only as expensive as you could afford. My h and I ended up paying enough for a 2nd couple to attend b/c we believed in it that much.
I'm Catholic, my h is not. There was NO pressure to be Catholic or even Christian, though it would help to be Christian or at least not atheist. They do talk about connecting on a spiritual level.
it helped us move from "Piecing" to being "Restored." Pretty impressive for a weekend. But you have to do the follow up sessions to really cement what you learn there. Or at least I think.
My husband has actually taken time off to attend the Retrouvaille session next weekend in Owensboro, KY. I know we had pre-registered to attend the Chicago session, but he was unable to get off work.
My husband and I have been separated since May of this year. I've been wanting to piece things back together and make our family whole again. My husband starting seeing someone at his work, and he tells me things like he doesn't love me anymore, and this divorce is going through regardless and that he'll never be able to love me again since I was the one that walked away from the pain first, he had off and on EA's, and would lie, and constantly hide things from me, and I started to hide spending (retail therapy in attempts to make me feel better), and leaving him in even more financial turmoil than we were to begin with.
He said that my leaving is what changed everything for him, and he no longer wanted to try to rebuild anything with me, but he would go to the weekend to attempt to make our divorce more amicable. We have a 6 yr old son, who's wonderful, and he's the main reason I wanted to try again. H is a Christian, and I was raised Catholic, but I don't practice and have just been searching for faith on my own. So, I guess my question (or advice seeking) concerns what he said to me yesterday. He said he was just going to improve the communication between us, and told me not to have any expectations of us getting back together because it will just never happen, and if that's what I was hoping for he wouldn't attend the weekend at all because it was too late for us.
Should I just give up and not have us attend at all...would it be a waste of time for us if he's already telling me he doesn't love me anymore? Especially since we're not doing well financially anyway, I really don't have the registration money, and since we've moved apart. He knows what the purpose of the program is, and I've explained what happens, and what I've learned. So I guess I'm confused if we should even take the time for the drive (4 hours) to try and attend when I want to reconcile, and he doesn't. I've been approaching him about reconciling since a month after I moved out and couldn't take the pain any longer, but that was before I knew programs like this even existed.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
hopefull,
Retrouvaille is not divorce counseling; it is focused solely on helping struggling couples rediscover each other and find new ways to express themselves and communicate. So if he's only going to make the divorce more amicable, they're not going to help with that.
On the other hand, there are couples who have attended Retrouvaille weekends while unsure if they wanted to work on the marriage (or very sure they did not) and found their love for each other rekindled.
I realize your weekend is next week and you need to make a decision now. If you don't think you can afford it or that he will be unreceptive to it, you might talk to the organizing couple so that a slot does not go unused. Retrouvaille is always something that can be done later, when he is more receptive to trying to work things out.
Did you and your husband actually talk to the organizing couple? They usually ask you specific questions, such as whether or not either spouse is seeing someone else, and if they are willing to end that relationship. (There's nothing preventing either spouse from lying, of course.) If so, did he tell them that he's only interested in ending the marriage amicably?
Much of what you are describing sounds like more than just a walk-away husband who is tired of the marriage. I've heard many of the same complaints from my wife that you have: I'm not in love with you, I've been faking it for awhile now, I'm not going to change my mind, etc.
In my case, I suspect that my wife was going through a midlife crisis when we attended Retrouvaille, and it didn't seem to have any immediate benefit for her.
There is a board on this forum about spouses going through a midlife crisis, and there are other forums for supporting people whose spouses are in an MLC.
Edit- linking to other sites is not allowed.
I know it's not divorce counseling, and that it's not counseling at all.
I guess I was just looking for a bit of encouragement in still going since he's willing to go in the first place. But now I'm wondering if since finances are an issue, if we should even go at all, however I am the one that will be paying for it if we do.
I just know if we don't go now, knowing him...that if we don't go next weekend, and if I don't take the risk, there's no chance he'll be willing to do it again once the divorce is finalized.
He does know they're pro-marriage though, which I guess is a good thing, considering he's willing to go. I'm just hoping, by some small percentage (he said a negative percentage) that we'll have a chance to try again. I've told him I've forgiven him for his affairs, and the years of verbal abuse, but he hasn't forgiven me for walking away when I couldn't take it anymore, taking my pay along with me. I'm just at a loss at what to say or do, especially during the drive there, that won't damage things further or cause his anger to flare up.
Now that I think of it, I remember my wife saying something similar on our way to Retrouvaille: "Maybe this will give us tools that we can use in our next relationships."
If he is going through a midlife crisis, he's suffering through an intense emotional crisis that Retrouvaille is not set up to address. I would try to find a copy of Men in Midlife Crisis by Jim Conway; that is a good place to start learning more. I would also look into the MLC sites and the MLC forum on DB that I referred to earlier. I forgot that external links aren't allowed on the DB forums, but you can Google for them.
I don't want to discourage you from going to Retrouvaille; but based on my experience with a spouse in MLC, I don't know that it is going to help the two of you at this time. (With that said, I think it is a wonderful program; I would love to do it again if and when my wife is more willing to work on things.)
As for how he is going to react? You have no way of predicting how he is going to react. He could very well accuse you of "giving up", but he could just as easily accuse you of hanging onto a relationship that he considers over. All that trying to predict his responses and trying to make him happy will do is drive yourself crazy.
Hopefull,
When we went to retrouvaille I had a lot of doubts too. Although we were not separated my husband said he did not love me anymore, did ot really love me. He was having an EA, and had not stopped contact with the OW at that time. But he was willing to go, and that was the most important thing for me.
It turned our marriage around. We went in November 2011, and when my husband learned about love being a decision, he suddenly realized that there is hope in our M. And though its been really tough so far, our M has progressed to the point that we are now officially piecing.
I say go. there is nothing to lose, anyway. And as long as you can pay the 100 registration, they do not obligate you to pay anything else. The hotel and food is part of it. Maybe if it works out you can contribute later on. I intend to donate more money in the future to them, even if I did donate more than the amount of the cost of the hotel and food on the weekend itself.
When my H went, he said that he didn't even know why he was there, but the fact that he was probably meant something.
The fact that your H wants to go means something. Inside, he knows that he wants something more than what you have in your R.
Read my thread. Otherwise, I will also copy and paste what happened to us after Retrouvaille from my thread in MLC to share with everyone.
Here is a copy of my post from my original thread right after our Retrouvaille weekend (November 2011)
Back from Retrouvaille!!!
Thank you everyone for your prayers. God gave my marriage a miracle over the weekend. It turned out better than I imagined it to be. I hope it will be the start of a new life....
I am so emotionally exhausted that I don't think I can write that much. And also, the Retrouvaille method should not be divulged, but suffice it to say that over the weekend, there were any changes, not only in my H's heart, but in mine as well.
He now wants to work on our M. He came in not sure of why he was there, only knowing that it must mean something that he was going. But he did bring with him an open heart and mind.
It started easy, and we were telling ourselves that we were in this to just make our life more smooth sailing, nothing deep. He felt we were learning a new trick, even said there ws no need to go back for the post sessions as we were likely to learn what we needed in the first day. Then it became harder. We were forced to face our feelings, our issues.
There was a point he almost quit. I almost also ruined it by being indignant that he was not doing his best. Then we recovered. We said it was not a time to solve problems, only to learn. We pushed on.
At the end of Saturday we were feeling hopeful.
On Sunday, we were put into deeper waters.
I was afraid that H woud cave in under the pressure, would withdraw into himslef. But he did not. Hard as it was, he faced it and came through.
And so did I! I felt like my chest was going to explode with the emotions I felt. We cried together. We smiled and talked and laughed like we have not in a long time.
We both realized he has a long, long way to go. He said to me his inner issues are not solved yet, but tired as he is, he will persevere and will continue to work on them. He let me know that he valued my being there for him, and that the most important thing about me to him was my loving him in spite of it all. He told me that he saw all of my changes, and that he wanted me to help him understand how love could be a decision, and not a feeling.
We both agreed that God should be in the center of our relationship.
In the end, he even said that we should go to the post sessions, we will find a way inspite of his anxiety that we may rock the boat.
We went home both exhausted and quiet. I brought him to the airport, he will be away for a week. I was relieved that we have time to reflect away from each other. Time to pray as well and be thankful. Time to think back and see with the heart what we had divulged to each other. Time to offer it to God and listen on what the next step will be.
Those of you who have been debating whether to go or not, I urge you to do so.
There is nothing to lose, except for the expenses, which are voluntary, and everything to gain.
and to update: we have been gpoing to almost every post (except for the first one) and each post weekend has brought us closer, and has made us more open.
There is still a lot more to do; he doesn't really like to do the dialogue, we still have issues with complete transparency, i battel trsut issues and the memories of being hurt, and rejected. We sometimes go back to our old ways of arguing. But we have committed to each other that we are going to do all we can to preserve our marriage and hold on to our vows, put God in our lives and decide to love.
Thanks Angel! Wow...I'm at work, and reading your posts, I started crying!
Thank you again for your response, and reminding me that I can still hope against hope. I do hope we both get something out of this, and I really hope it will help re-ignite something within him to where he'll realize that loving each other is a choice, even though I know his image of love is very reminiscent of fairy tales and movies, which we lost a long time ago since he claimed to have loved me at first sight, and us being together was fate and destiny. He seems to think that if there is no passion, there is no love. I've chosen to love him and to make this attempt to keep our family whole, and hopefully hearing stories from others will help change his mind into wanting the same as well. I even feel at times, he's already over this and moved on and that we won't have another chance at all. I try to tell him anything is possible, there's always a chance, and always hope, but then he calls me delusional.
I've been begging him to at least go in with an open mind to the slight possibility that it could go either way, but his only response is that we are going to divorce, that's the only way this is going, and we're just attending this weekend so that maybe we can come to an agreement on the custody and visitation schedule of our son. I told him I understand that if there is a chance for us, it's a very small percentage based on his words and actions, and his response is that it's a negative percentage and to not get my hopes up because we'll never be together again, and that we'll never be a family again and that we should just learn from our mistakes so we can apply them to future relationships instead of working on them between us because it's too late. We've never had a solid base to work upon since we got married really quickly after we started seeing each other, pregnant before we got married, even though he was talking about marriage and family with me before that happened, so we never had the time for 'us'. I just feel like during our separation, we finally started uncovering bits and pieces that we should have shared and didn't which led to our failures, and I'm hoping he'll be willing to work with me to mend our mistakes together instead of re-creating or applying them to a different relationship, since a different relationship would just be a different set of problems later on.
I'm also very worried about the OW from his work since I've heard that she just had her divorce, and she also has a child with her ex husband who is around 2. The only reason I knew that was because I had a heart to heart with my husbands grandmother, and at that time I just had suspicions, and she said they were just friends, and that she was going through a divorce and had a small child etc. But then one day my son told me there was a lady on my side of the bed, and gave me her name, and then had a breakdown thinking his mom was being replaced, and over and over asking me, "why did daddy make bad choices?"
I'm just very scared, and anxious about next weekend, and I can't help but cry every day about having been the first one to walk away. I want to work with him to be able to fully forgive him for the past, I just hope he'll do the same for me for our family. When I left, I thought I didn't and couldn't love him again either, until the day I went to the courthouse to file the divorce papers, and I couldn't leave the car to do it because it just didn't feel right. Then 3 months later, I end up receiving the divorce papers he's filed in the mail.
LOL, I'm so sorry for venting, I'm just having a moment.
I just got a bit more bad news today....well, possible bad news. He called me at work saying he might not be able to do the weekend of Retrouvaille now due to work. That he had less vacation time than he thought, and he had 2 days of vacation, can't go into the negative, and 1 of the 2 days he needs for our court date 2 weeks after the Retro weekend.
He wants me to call tonight after I put our son to sleep, and talk about issues, but I'm a bit scared to because I know it's just going to end up with us having another communication breakdown because we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things anymore. I just have a feeling it will turn into nothing but him going into verbal abuse mode, and me crying
I'm sorry that he's waffling on the Retrouvaille weekend; when he asked for the info and said he'd "think about it," I was concerned that he might be passive-aggressive and wait until the last minute to say he wasn't going to go.
I would get confirmation that he doesn't want to do it and contact the organizing couple so they can try to fill that slot. They may want to talk to him try to to convince him to go; if so, I'd let them do their work.
You don't have to talk to him about relationship stuff if you're not ready to do it. But if you DO talk to him, focus on listening to what he has to say. Try to validate his feelings without necessarily agreeing with the conclusions; something like "I understand that you feel like we can't work things out, but I believe that there are things we can do."
whew...false alarm...just got a voicemail from him saying that things were worked out.
Now I'm just dreading the phone call later on. Our son has been taking things realy bad through the seperation, but has never shown those feelings to my husband. And this past week was the first time he acted depressed around him, and I'm worried he's wanting to try and place blame on me for his feeling that way. I'm hoping I can at least push the conversation to after the weekend, maybe we'll be able to talk about that and other things more constructively then.
And this past week was the first time he acted depressed around him, and I'm worried he's wanting to try and place blame on me for his feeling that way.
You can drive yourself crazy if you try to anticipate every reaction (especially if you try to figure out how it can be used against you). If your husband has questions why his son is depressed, he should ask his son.
Clear, honest communication doesn't have to wait until the Retrouvaille weekend.
Well, he doesn't think our son will talk to him like he does with me. He's placing that on the stereotypical father/child and mother/child relationship, and he just has the assumption that kids don't open up to their dads like they do moms. Which in my case isn't true, I've always been much closer with my dad.
I have told him several times, that he should try and initiate a conversation with him, talk to him about his feelings, and just a little digging will help open his eyes up to why the little guy is acting the way he his, and not wanting to go out and play, and why at dads house he just wants to lay about and do nothing but cry or sleep. Of course he places blame on me for it, since I was the waw, and he knows our son talks to me all the time about feelins, and his needs, and I'm always the one he comes to with questions or if he needs reassurance because I've always made myself available for him. So my husband just waits until I tell him about weird behaviour or things that were said that were a bit disturbing. But I always encourage him to talk to his son, and I also try to encourage my son to open up to him, but he says he's scared to.
But we have a nice 4 hour drive on Friday, so hopefully we can have a talk about things then without his anger flaring up or me in tears.
My husband has already said that he'd walk out of the session if they didn't listen, then I asked him, "listen to what?" Which he replied, I don't know, but from the phone call I got from the Retrouvaille lady, it sounded like a weekend of cult brain washing. I've talked to him several times about what goes on, and that we don't have to share our story with anyone unless we want to, and have given him countless links on the internet for him to read in his own time, just so he would know what to expect.
I did talk to his mom yesterday, and she said that both her and his grandmother have both told them they aren't pleased with him right now, and that he's been making a lot of bad choices. But that he also told them he would be going into the program with an open mind to either outcome, but then of course he tells me he's not. She did tell me not to worry about it so much, because his temper is well known in his family, and I know we've both hit sore spots with each other.
I just need a magic 8 ball...
Unfortunately as Friday comes closer, the more anxious I get, and it's really hard to not just break down in tears at work every day.
Hopefull,
My advice: Just take it as part of your journey. Think of it this way: you have nothing to lose. It can't make things worse, there's a chance it will be better. I was so anxious when we were going, but it turned out to be a miracle for us.
You will not be talking to anybody about your situation. THERE IS NO SHARING!
There is no brainwashing either! Let your husband know about this, as shared by someone who has gone through it.
It is all about facing what you really feel. Retrouvaille means discovery.....
Just trust the process.
My advice: On your way there, do not talk about emotional things, about your R, or about your son, especially if it will seem like you are guilting him about his role (or lack of it) as a dad. It will close off his mind to whatever is going to happen in Retrouvaille. The least you will need in order to gain something from it is an open mind.
I will be praying for you. Good luck, and trust the Lord.
LOL, sorry Angel, I couldn't help but giggle at your comment on the lack of fatherly roles with our son. Since it is true, he hasn't made much of an effort to get close to him until we moved out.
I did speak with H yesterday though, he called me at work, and he sounded very nervous, stressed, and distraught about the idea of spending a weekend together. I'm not sure if he's stressed because OW might be telling him not to, or if he's scared that it will ignite something between us again to want to put the effort into saving our family then having us fall back into old ways, or distraught over the possible torment he'll get at work about it. The OW is someone he works with, and he has friends at work, but I was never allowed toh ang out with him and his work friends.
He did at least say he'll go in with a positive attitude, and an open mind to communication only, and couldn't guarantee that he could go in with an open heart since he had no feelings left for me at all.
However, he does get extremely angry when I tell him that I want to try again. I told him that he can't fault me for wanting to put another attempt at our family, at our relationship. Which he agreed and said he couldn't fault me, but he could be angry about it since I was saying these things to little to late. So I'm just confused, that even though he says he doesn't love me or care about me in any fashion at all anymore, then why would he be angry about me wanting to try and work things out? If he's feeling that strongly to where he reaches his boiling point at the idea of me wanting to try and work together to save our marriage, does anyone else think it might be possible that there is still a small part of him (even though he denies it) that he wants to make our family whole again? Unless I'm mis-reading the anger piece of it. Just because I know in the past, I've had exes tell me that they want to try again, and I had nothing left for them in my heart, it didn't anger me in the least bit, nor trigger any other feelings since I truly didn't care anymore at that time.
They say that the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.
Stop talking about your marriage to your H. Obviously, he will defend his choices. His choice is to leave the family. That is what makes him angry. The more you say things, the more it will drive him away. he does not want you to choose for him to stay for the family. he knows all the reasons why or why not. YOur trying to guilt him or force him into considering staying wwill just make him leave faster. Have your read the divorce remedy book? Everything is explained there. Did you know that actually letting go will bring him back more than hanging on?
Do not try to mind read, that is one of the number one rules here. Most probably you will be misinterpreting things either towards the negative, which will just make you angry and act it, or towards believing something positive, which will give you false hope and raise your expectations.
Stop trying to make sense of what he says or does. Focus on yourself. No amount of talking on your part can replace doing.
It is natural for everyone to be apprehensive about doing something like Retrouvaille. Please stop talking to him about it as well, just listen to what he has to say. You are also nervous, for your own reasons.
Stop even trying to convince him that he has to go with an open mind (I gather from your post that you did). let the process take over. They will ask you guys to have one. It is better to hear it from them than from you. Try to think of your husband as a rebellious teenager, and you as the mom. Anything you say will be taken as a negative. See, he already put barriers in his mind by saying he can't open his heart. If you never talked about it, he would not conscioussly put one. Now you are minus one weapon because he has already set it up.
I know its hard, but just trust me on this: zip your lips!
LOL, I was trying to not talk to him about it, he engaged the conversation with me. He wanted me to tel him that I understood that this was merely for communication for our son, and that the divorce was stil going through, and didn't want me to go into the weekend with false hope.
All I asked him was that letting go was one of the options after this weekend, I have 2, we either reconnect and decide to work hard to repair what we've broken, or we meet on the court date in 3 weeks to finalize the D. Myself, his mother and grandmother have all asked him to at least humor the option of reconciling through the weekend and that it's never too late for anything.
Hopefully he won't bring it up again with me. I told him if it would make him feel better to talk to one of the mentor couples that we had contact information for, and he said he wouldn't do that because he felt like he was being force fed purple kool aide
Got it. When we went, my H also said it was just for us to be able to communicate better and keep the atmosphere at home livable. More like survival. For us, my H had decided at that point that although he felt hopeless about love ever being in our M, we were going to stay together for our D.
My take there: If it makes him happy to use that as an excuse, then OK, so be it.
I don't think the mentor couples would really divulge anything because part of Retrouvaille is not knowing whats next. All they would assure you is that there is no sharing. I could assure you that they will not ram anuything down your throat.
There were some topics that my H was not ready to discuss and he simply did not participate, and that was OK with me. In the end, I think it still made himself face his own issues.
So tomorrow we're leaving for Retrouvaille. I'm on pins and needles just worried about the car ride after we drop off our son.
I printed out a few chapters that I would like my husband to read in The Divorce Remedy, but I'm not sure if I should or not. I also have other articles that I would like him to read as well.
Yesterday I called his mom again, just for a little more reassurance about if he's really going in with an open mind, and she told me his grandmother just heard she had to go in for heart surgery tommorrow. They're not sure what exactly needs worked on though as of yet, and she told me they wouldn't know until they had her under the knife, which didn't make sense to me, but whatever.
Then I talked to my husband about it, and he told me we'd be on call all weekend in case something happened with his grandmother, which I totally understand since I love his grandmother a lot. But while talking to him, I heard a baby laughing in the back ground, and another womans voice, and I didn't say anything but, "sounds like you have the tv going pretty loud" and he just responded with a, "yeah" So, of course my fears kick in that the OW, who just finalized her own divorce was there, in the marital home, with her 2 year old child.
I'm just so afraid that he'll choose to start a new life with the newly divorced, and leave our family in shambles. He's always been the type to want nothing other than to start with a clean slate. His answer to all of our conflicts was to just forget that it ever happened and start over. Like hitting the reset button on a video game or something.
I also spoke with one of the Retrouvaille people again last night for additional encouragement. It is slightly comforting knowing I'm not the only one calling in tears, and uncertainty, and of course fear of impending doom. I just know my worst fear is the drive back home, if he decides that he truly doesn't want to try and help rebuild our family. I'm wondering if I can just have him take a taxi to the nearest bus station for him to get home on his own if that were the case.
Hopefully we'll come back in the same car, and that I'll come back with good news on Monday.
So tomorrow we're leaving for Retrouvaille. I'm on pins and needles just worried about the car ride after we drop off our son.
I printed out a few chapters that I would like my husband to read in The Divorce Remedy, but I'm not sure if I should or not. I also have other articles that I would like him to read as well.
Honestly? You're not going to have much time for extra reading. They pack a lot of stuff into that weekend.
And I would not be trying to get him to read stuff about working on the marriage right now. That can come across as pressuring or controlling, and undo the work that you're going to try to do this weekend.
Then I talked to my husband about it, and he told me we'd be on call all weekend in case something happened with his grandmother, which I totally understand since I love his grandmother a lot.
It sounds like he's trying to give himself an out. While I understand that family is important to the both of you, don't let yourself be distracted from what you need to do this weekend.
But while talking to him, I heard a baby laughing in the back ground, and another womans voice, and I didn't say anything but, "sounds like you have the tv going pretty loud" and he just responded with a, "yeah" So, of course my fears kick in that the OW, who just finalized her own divorce was there, in the marital home, with her 2 year old child.
That's a big red flag: when you sign up for the weekend they ask you if either spouse is involved with someone else, and if they are, they are asked to bring the relationship to a close.
If he is still spending time with OW, then in my opinion he's breaking the trust that both of you are going to go in with an open mind and a willingness to try to work things out.
Why did you let him pretend that he wasn't there with OW? (Assuming that's what was going on.) You should be able to ask him where he is and what he is doing, and have him answer honestly. It won't be forever; just until you can be reassured that he's not lying or cheating.
If he was unfaithful, that is a betrayal of the trust that you put in him. If he wants to reconcile, that means he has to accept that you are going to have questions, doubts, and fears, and he has to take positive action to prove that he wants to be trustworthy again.
I'm just so afraid that he'll choose to start a new life with the newly divorced, and leave our family in shambles. He's always been the type to want nothing other than to start with a clean slate. His answer to all of our conflicts was to just forget that it ever happened and start over. Like hitting the reset button on a video game or something.
And that attitude will basically guarantee that if he does and up leaving for another woman, that relationship will fare about as well as yours did. You don't get to just pretend that arguments and hurtful behaviors never happened.
I also spoke with one of the Retrouvaille people again last night for additional encouragement. It is slightly comforting knowing I'm not the only one calling in tears, and uncertainty, and of course fear of impending doom. I just know my worst fear is the drive back home, if he decides that he truly doesn't want to try and help rebuild our family. I'm wondering if I can just have him take a taxi to the nearest bus station for him to get home on his own if that were the case.
You're engaging in unproductive negative meditation (aka "worrying"). Don't try to predict his reaction to this weekend. If he wants to leave or decides it's not worth the effort, let him find his own way home.
You will be in good hands at Retrouvaille. The presenting couples, and the couples you will be attending with, are all in the same place that you are. No one will be judging you OR your husband. They have all made mistakes; many of them have had affairs; some have probably been convinced that the marriage was beyond saving. But they all went to Retrouvaille, and they all committed to working things out.
"If he is still spending time with OW, then in my opinion he's breaking the trust that both of you are going to go in with an open mind and a willingness to try to work things out."
In their case I think the willingness is only to learn to communicate. I think though that Retrouvaille has loosened up they don't even ask that anymore. All they ask for is the willingness to go through the weekend. And regarding OP's, they only asked that the OP not be contacted during the time that Retrouvaille is being conducted.
In my case, my H went in seemingly unwilling to work things out, but came out of it a changed person.
Miracles can happen, and for me , as long as the person is willing to go in there, I would say go for it.
In their case I think the willingness is only to learn to communicate. I think though that Retrouvaille has loosened up they don't even ask that anymore. All they ask for is the willingness to go through the weekend. And regarding OP's, they only asked that the OP not be contacted during the time that Retrouvaille is being conducted.
It's also possible that Retrouvaille groups vary slightly in what they ask or require.
In my case, my H went in seemingly unwilling to work things out, but came out of it a changed person.
Miracles can happen, and for me , as long as the person is willing to go in there, I would say go for it.
I agree. You really have nothing to lose by trying.
So tomorrow we're leaving for Retrouvaille. I'm on pins and needles just worried about the car ride after we drop off our son.
did you read my long posts to you about NOT freaking out and how your fears only hurt your cause?? Read them again.
I printed out a few chapters that I would like my husband to read in The Divorce Remedy, but I'm not sure if I should or not.
YOU SHOULD NOT DO THIS^^^^ No way..First the books themselves say this is for the LBSer NOT the WAS and not to share it with them so how could you ask if you have read them?
It will only come on as pressure and pursuit which IT IS
and that makes him NOT TRUST you b/c it undermine the claims you have made that you are detaching and just seeing what this brings and learning to communicate better, blah blah blah
YOU ARE MAKING IT SO OBVIOUS that all your hopes and dreams are on him staying now...back off like you promised or he will bolt at the first chance he has.
I say get a comedy CD or some music you both like for the car ride and don't make the trip about "working on the m" but about having some relaxed time in the car, where it is EASY GOING and [i]easy & relaxing to be around YOU...
[/i]
BACK OFF...I don't know another way to say this.
The Retro people are not idiots. They have a program that helps troubled m's. Your manipulations and machinations and freaking out trying to control this weekend
will HURT YOUR CAUSE not help it.
back off and trust their process...
I also have other articles that I would like him to read as well.
see comments above which means NO do not do this. Back off and leave him alone. He is going to the weekend and he will leave if you tip one more brick in the wagon so back off, back way off and be glad he's going and learn to show that you can shelve all your fears and anger and worries for the car ride down or you will not be fun company....lighten up b/c The Retro people will he.lp you do the heavy lifting when you are there...learn to relax around your h so he can learn to be comfortable round you. I said this 10 different ways before so you have to listen and heed when we post to you or it gets frustrating.
Yesterday I called his mom again, just for a little more reassurance about if he's really going in with an open mind,
and she told me his grandmother just heard she had to go in for heart surgery tommorrow. They're not sure what exactly needs worked on though as of yet, and she told me they wouldn't know until they had her under the knife, which didn't make sense to me, but whatever.
Then I talked to my husband about it, and he told me we'd be on call all weekend in case something happened with his grandmother, which I totally understand since I love his grandmother a lot. But while talking to him, I heard a baby laughing in the back ground, and another womans voice, and I didn't say anything but, "sounds like you have the tv going pretty loud" and he just responded with a, "yeah" So, of course my fears kick in that the OW, who just finalized her own divorce was there, in the marital home, with her 2 year old child.
I'm just so afraid that he'll choose to start a new life with the newly divorced, and leave our family in shambles. He's always been the type to want nothing other than to start with a clean slate. His answer to all of our conflicts was to just forget that it ever happened and start over. Like hitting the reset button on a video game or something.
too bad you didn't work on resolving the conflicts sooner...but you still need to learn how to, so go to Retrovaille & get those tools.I also spoke with one of the Retrouvaille people again last night for additional encouragement. It is slightly comforting knowing I'm not the only one calling in tears, and uncertainty, and of course fear of impending doom. I just know my worst fear is the drive back home, if he decides that he truly doesn't want to try and help rebuild our family. I'm wondering if I can just have him take a taxi to the nearest bus station for him to get home on his own if that were the case.
Hopefully we'll come back in the same car, and that I'll come back with good news on Monday.
don't borrow trouble from tomorrow. Stop futurizing and catastrophizing b/c it can be a self fulfilling prophecy. Go with the idea you both will be better communicators IF you listen to them
and stay the weekend. Stop assuming he's leaving and back off so he doesn't feel he has to.
trust their process and that you will be alright anyhow...
There's two of us now telling you to zip it up - we both have been there, done that.
Trust us! Stop asking everything! BTW, remember that everything you tell his relatives will reach him one of these days.... blood is thicker than water, and I learned my lessons the hard way, and no matter how close they are to you, they will try to "help" by interfering, which will ultimately be detrimental to your R.
Again, the ground rules: No talking about anything to your H, even if he initiates it, change the topic!!!!
Hopefull, Did you go? How was it?
OMG...I'm still recovering. Not sure yet where we are going to go, however, I did write a HUGE journal entry that I'm sending to my close friends and family members, and my husband...that covers the adventure.
I didn't break any of the rules though, I did not break the first rule of Retrouvaille...and did not go into details as to exactly what will be faced, or what was faced. It's very vague, yet very deep...if anyone is wanting a good read, I can PM it to you. Warning, it's 9 pages long!
OMG...I'm still recovering. Not sure yet where we are going to go, however, I did write a HUGE journal entry that I'm sending to my close friends and family members, and my husband...that covers the adventure.
I didn't break any of the rules though, I did not break the first rule of Retrouvaille...and did not go into details as to exactly what will be faced, or what was faced. It's very vague, yet very deep...if anyone is wanting a good read, I can PM it to you. Warning, it's 9 pages long!
Unfortunately, private messages are disabled; at least, they're not working for me.
So I'm assuming that you would say the weekend was worthwhile? How is he feeling about things right now? How are YOU feeling about things right now?
Hey, write a condensed version for us. Are you sure though that you would like to send that to your H? And all your family members? One of the things you learn in retrouvaille is not to tell much to everyone else, because it raises expectations, and also other peoples opinions can affect you. Remember, people all have different beliefs and levels of spirituality. Even my D sort of scoffs at us (she's a teenager) whenever we tell her she has t stay with friends for the day because we are going to attend a post. She once asked me if I believed that it would really work. I just told her "wait and see" but it sort of rocked my feelings.
I only confided to a couple of friends about what really happened - one who is a sort of spiritual nmentor to me, another who had the same thing happen to her and who is in piecing as well.
JOurnaling and pouring your heart out to your H will still be pressure, and will also overwhelm him.It is probably not in the category of "safe". Give him an emotional break. Just follow what Retrouvaille teaches - especially the 10/10 principle (you know that now, right?)There is a reason for this.
I hope you do get to attend the posts. They are very helpful.
Hopeful,
I'd love to hear how things went at Retrouvaille. I'm sure you can find a way to give us some insight into the feelings and changes you and your H went through without revealing too much about the process.
And Trent. Hi! I haven't seen you post in a long time. Hope you are doing well, and not too flooded from the recent storms.
I do NOT know your sitch...I concede that up front...
And I assume you have some fantastic unusual (rare) reason for wanting to share with your family members--what happened at a retreat for married couples in crisis...
but I doubt it's a good enough reason.
What's the real goal? Are you trying to say "all is well now"? Did you feel guilty and want to know you've been forgiven now? I mean, WHY TELL them?
Just show them.
And I can't see how it does not break their rules or how it would help your h feel safe in sharing openly with you...
just a thought. I don't know your sitch but
I went to Retrovaille and have shared HERE, some of the things I've learned and one big breakthrough we had...but I shared MUCH less than that with my family and zero with his...other than "it helped us"...I let HIM talk to his family IF he wants to...but I find most men don't.
just mho
Speaking from my own experience, 25yearsmlc is correct.
After my bomb drop, I told people things that I now wish I hadn't, because it's caused hard feelings among my wife and my family.
It's a passive-aggressive way of putting pressure on him, and you will make it harder for your husband to share his feelings openly with you if he thinks you are going to tell everyone he knows. Also, your friends and family may not want to know all of the details of what you went through, even if it looks like it might have a happy ending.