Living with a workaholic spouse - DivorceBusting.com

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We are at the stage of dealing with "normal" marital stress but sometimes we relate to each other like in the bad old days.

Last night my H called in front of other people to tell me in a firm harsh tone that he would be late. We both think he is hurting himself by overworking but he doesn't see any other way. He is so preoccupied with work that he doesn't have a brain cell left for much else. Despite all this, I have no desire to stand between him and his work. It's not fun but it doesn't anger me that he works a huge number of hours. However, I do get furious when he acts like I am an obstacle to his work. Futhermore, when I get angry, my H very rarely has the resources to understand why. He just registers that I'm angry and reacts with shotgun defensiveness, acusations, and withdrawl. He is very stressed out, I understand that and tell him in great detail how I understand what he is going through. In this latest case, despite huge evidence to the contrary, he insists that this idea, that he is treating me like I'm an obstacle, is all in my head. I tend to believe him too much in all kinds of circumstances and when I believe him instead of something I am sure is going on, I get knocked off balance and start thinking maybe I really am a terrible, critical, demanding person.

So I am taking the bait to this negative dance that we do in at least three ways: 1. getting angry at being falsely accused 2. trusting him more than myself and getting confused (the sad truth is that after all this time, I still don't know what to trust in our relationship) and 3. berating myself.

The mess that results is very similar to the affair mess and I need to address it somehow. Anybody relate to this? Any ideas?

Determined 2L

PS
When we spend time together without his work being the focus, like on the vacation we just took, we get on the same wave link, enjoy each other, and have a sense of stability. Ideally, as Michele suggests, we would spend some quality time together all along but my H has been very clear that he will not do this at this time so I gotta find some other way.

I am looking into some changes of activities that might help.

I believe it was Mike Murdock who said it...

"Men will spend their health getting wealth; then, gladly pay all they have earned to get health back."

Sad, but very true in the case of a workaholic spouse. I was married to a workaholic who failed to understand the importance of balance. He focused only on moving to the top of the ladder only to find that he was not happy once he got there.

I do not know of anyone, when reaching the end of their life and expressing regrets, wishes that they had spent more time at work.

Does your husband have any healthy hobbies that you can encourage him to develop? I know it is very frustrating to try and reach a workaholic. Can you include relaxing weekend getaways in your schedule?

Best of luck to you....

I dont think any one has ever rose on their death bed and said, "Gee I wish I had spent more time at the office".

Futhermore, when I get angry, my H very rarely has the resources to understand why. He just registers that I'm angry and reacts with shotgun defensiveness, acusations, and withdrawl.

Have you tried not being angry when you tackle him on this matter..just a normal discussion at a nice relaxed time?...or

do you get angry when he comes home from work and just enterd through the door?...

When he is at work what do you do?..

What accusations does he make?.....

Roycer(MICK) [Smile]

Hi:

You might want to check out www.marriagebuilders.com for some ideas. I've found this site particularly helpful.

Hi!

I've been refreshing what I read in the fall about MLC. Does your H fit into that catagory?

Our C says that my H is dealing w a MLC factor.

Also anger conflict.

Stages are: denial; anger; replay; depression; withdrawal; acceptance.

I havn't been able to identify the denial phase in my H but in '97 he started getting angery w me a lot; his replay involved one more woman one more time; the end of that R put him into depression. Right now we're dealing w withdrawal and glimpses of acceptance (I hope).

About the depression. He was really stressed by the ending of that R. He was grumpy and tired (lot of sleep) and ate a lot also. I noticed that he talked about wanting to be at work. His work was 'his life'. The sourse I was reading said that sometimes the guy experiences this sort of 'active depression'.

It was a secret pleasure to hear him talk less and less of work and now hear him start talking about things that need doing around home.

The trick for you to handle this is to not focus on the job preoccuping him. How do you handle it now? Let's brainstorm and come up w some ideas.

Our C said recently that she thinks the affair was a manifestation of depression. Go figure.

I wrote a long piece last night but got bumped off-line before it was finished. Lost it all. So now I'm writing on my WP and pasting! Your questions, my lost writing (you know, now I realize, it really was only half-baked stuff!) and all I�ve learned resulted in coming up with a plan that I followed up on this am.

The Realization.

The essential, primary responsibility I have is to take care of myself especially when I start to feel down on me. If I don't do this I'm worthless to do anything else constructive. When I start to feel down on me I have to do something even if it�s not pretty. Hopefully I will get more and more graceful and mature about this over time but right now #1 is to do something. Furthermore, this needs to be done in a way that has absolutely no dependence on my h�s reaction. Actually--BIG PAT ON MY BACK [Big Grin]

a lot of the time I can do this pretty damn well!!! I can express love and understanding for my h but also sets a rock solid boundary for myself. He can think anything he wants to about me but I don�t have to buy into it. Sometimes in this struggle to hold my ground I might need to verbalize all this. One of those times was today. This involves me stating my position and simply holding it. He can react or not react any way he wants.

The Follow-through.

So this morning I:
1. offered honest compliments (he deserves plenty of compliments! and he tells me that it really helps when I verbalize them),

2. made appreciative statements (I am appreciative and I understand that his priorities at this time don�t allow him to think much about us�it is very impressive that he has learned as much as he has about being a loving husband over these last three years), AND

3. IMHO pretty darned skillfully interspersed some strong statements of boundaries that I really needed to state.

The Midstream Confidence Booster.

I can do this because: 1. I was a divorced parent since my daughter was 1, my h and I married 10 years ago when she was 18. I know how to live without a mate. 2. I am blessed with many people who love me and a husband who looks to me like he is doing the best catch-up job he can figure. 3. By the Grace that is, I have been allowed to learn. 4. I love people and I love myself.

The Result.

My h gave me that, all too familiar, �I am the bad little boy and you are the big MEAN parent� look BUT I DIDN�T BUY IT!!! If he is still trapped in confusing me with his abusive father it sure isn�t going to help either one of us for me to fall into that trap too!

The Lesson.

I can be compassionate, I can realize that he isn�t choosing this point of view�he�s just stuck at the moment. Furthermore, I can realize that I get stuck in blind spots also and do my best to recognize them and to not hurt anyone with them. Blind spots are just part of the human condition�getting out of them even for a moment is Grace.

Here and Now.

So here I go with a new day, a new victory, a new humility, a new appreciation and I�ll do my best to hold on and calm down with it all and use it!!!

PS
Notes about our situation.

My H is working so hard so he can do the work he wants to do. He is a researcher who is being buried in other responsibilities because he hasn�t gotten the grants that would relieve him of those other responsibilities. His ultimate goal is not wealth, it is to make some startling discovery in his field. I respect that this is pretty much his number one goal in life at this time and have always known that if it were between me and work, I�d loose! I would love it if he chose a less stressful way to go about all this, and think we�d both be happier if he lowered his sites a bit, but that ain�t happening. MLC is strongly at work here because my h expected to be much further along in his career than he is. To be honest, I feel alternating anger and compassion for why this is true. The anger we both feel for his missteps is reasonable but it sure isn�t going to help anything. Gotta use that energy to do our best to make things better NOW.

We share a wide range of interests and hobbies and have a few separate ones as well. I have come to realize that if we are going to spend relaxing time together that is not connected with his business travel, I need to plan it�so last night I looked into a stay in Oct at a B&B near an arts and music festival that we both love. He was delighted.

I have not worked professionally for about 5 years. The main reason I stopped my professional work was that I lost confidence in myself. After I stopped paid work, I spent my time taking care of every detail of life so that my h could do nothing but concentrate on work, I helped him with his work (mostly the boring clean up the mess parts and a little editing), did some volunteer work to keep a little connection with my profession, and MY FAVORITE, spent a lot of time baby sitting my granddaughter.

Time to go look for a house. Will write more later. Must be careful because in the last 3 years I have spent a huge amount of time writing, reading, obsessing, panicking, agonizing--you all know!!! Trying to get back to some semblance of balance, making progress, have a long way to go!

Thank you all so much for extending yourselves to me in thought and word. Boy, do I have strong well wishes for you all!

2L

OK. Now that I said my piece and got recentered, I can look at ways that I may be making life more difficult for my h than needs be. Now I feel calm and secure in myself and can put energy into being more understanding, loving, accepting, etc. Maybe give him a backrub the next time I see him, have a few stories to tell him that will make him laugh, cook him something (he loves that!). Probably the best idea would be to listen extra carefully to clues about his needs and try to meet them. Better yet, get to the point where nothing he does throws me off kilter so I don't feel like I need to SET boundaries--just need to have those boundaries THERE. YEAH, that's it! Am I expressing myself well enough so you all can tell what I'm trying to get at?

On the other hand...I never suspected a thing during my H's lengthy affair. I don't think anything like that is going on now but how could anyone who has been through something like that not be concerned when their spouse works 30 hours over the two day weekend coming home at 2a? When I call him, he is usually there but he never missed one of my calls then either.

DB says concentrate on the relationship--forget any thought of an ow. I have plenty to work on with myself--I've gained weight, am not happy with my activities, am anxious a lot. I'm going to the gym regularly, looking into a potentially new career (my first love, art) and at the same time considering resumming my old career.

The gym calls.
2L

Hi 2L,

My father’s day wasn’t the greatest, but it wasn’t the worst. My expectations were perhaps a little high (but not overly so), I was hoping that the family would make a little more of it than they did, so when I had to continue my fatherly chores (taxiing kids around, etc.) without any appreciation being expressed, it wasn’t a big deal, but it could have been better.

Last week, I was speaking with W on the phone. I was feeling a little down because I’m having difficulties with certain aspects of my motorcycle course. W downplayed my feelings. I told her that it was important to me, and that’s how the conversation ended.

But, I knew that she wasn’t trying to invalidate my feelings. It just came out that way.

All of this made me realize something. It doesn’t matter if people – including my W – support me. What matters is that they (especially W) try.

You said:

quote:
Originally posted by 2Learn:

I am blessed with… and a husband who looks to me like he is doing the best catch-up job he can figure.

And that’s what counts!

Andy

Thanks Andy, I needed that.

Think I've gotten through this little down time that started close to that 49th birthday. I'm exercising and seeing results, eating better because that is just what I want to do, no white knuckles, and doing just fine with my H working till midnight. Yahoo! Thanks for your help again. I'm sure I'll be back!

Yesterday my H showed me what he has been working on all this time. I do not know how it would be possible for him to have put so many hours into this piece of work. Either he is so depressed that he is staring at his monitor for hours, he's having an affair, or he is goofing off at his computer. In any case, he has withdrawn from our marriage big time. I went over to see him, half expecting that I'd catch him with another woman. He looks so guilty and anxious. I haven't said a word to him about my OW fears just expressed concern for him. This is not a healthy way to live. There is no way it has to be like this. What to do?

Time to exercise! That a good thing to do. I am starting to get depressed again hope exercising will help enough to avoid another go round with medication.
2L

Keep yourself centred, 2L.

I've been there with the depression thing. Since my major depression, I've had some tremmors. It scared the heck out of me. I've been keeping tabs on my feelings ever since, and jumped back on the meds a coupla times in order to preempt another breakdown.

Be careful.

Sounds like your H may be going through something similar. Don't jump to conclusions about OW.

I think you should just continue to do what you started. Show support, take care of yourself, and ride it out.

Take care,
Andy

You are right again, Andy. I know that another reason why I'm having a hard time now is that we have new friends with a couple of young kids that we with a lot of other people were helping out because he has cancer. We just found out that the cancer has spread and they have given him 6 months to live. I lost my sister to cancer this month years ago when I was young. Life seems so unbearably cruel sometimes.

I upped my weights at the gym Fri and exercised like there was no tomorrow. The guy helping me out bet I would be surprised Monday when I tried those weights. I took a prozac this am (I took one over my birthday weekend too and it seemed to help). I have an exercise buddy who is a dear friend maybe she could go for a walk today.

Yeah. Life can be cruel. And sometimes we make it crueler by associating other events.

I just turned 44. My mom died suddenly when she was 44. I don't usually link such things together, but sometimes you just can't help it.

So keep up the exercise. Doing it with a buddy adds in a social aspect, too. Keeps your mind from taking you places where you don't wanna go.

Take care,
Andy

I think the associations are there whether we recognize them or not. The important thing is to move past all the unavoidable pain to the most thorough acceptance you can manage and to focus on all the positive networks that are also out there. To handle our hurts and lend a hand to others when presented with an opportunity is the best a person can do.

Friday must have been an exercise breakthrough for me cause I did just fine with those weights on Monday [Smile]

This is supposed to be the last night my H works late. His project is due tomorrow. The truth is that I feel so abandoned by him and so accused of standing between him and his work that it�s going to be stressful to deal with him being around. When he is home he tends to veg out in front of the TV. It feels like he only has energy for work. Tomorrow we can watch Ireland on PBS. That will bring back some very god memories. Perhaps I should suggest a movie Thurs. I am going to be involved in a community project early that eve so we could get a bite first. That might help me ease into having him around.

I checked out marriage builders on these issues. Going to that sight makes me realize I don�t have a partner yet. My H is not interested in �points of joint agreement�. That site goes in for really being a couple. That sounds great to me but you have to have a cooperative partner for that. Sometimes I worry if the going the independent, make yourself happy route, doesn�t end up looking like Bill and Hillary�s marriage. When your spouse really doesn�t care about your needs, it seems to me that you can�t avoid some resentment. That�s how I read the marriage builder�s site anyway. It isn�t that my H doesn�t care about me, he simply puts his career first (and sometimes second, third, and fourth). If there was an emergency in the family, he would be there. If things were going well for him at work, he says he would be with me more but I think that would mean he�d be in the house watching TV. He is doing his best. He just doesn�t know any better, wants it to stay that way and wants me to be happy with things just like they are. I�d like to bring him along some because I really believe we could both be much happier.

OK. How to take that to a PMA��.
Well it would probably help to have a realistic expectation: Chances are he will always work like this at least from time to time. It is not the working, it�s the hostility that bothers me. People can stay connected even if they are very busy. He manages to keep up with the news very well could it just not be occurring to him to keep up with his wife? Could I find some creative ways to do this without interrupting? Hmmmm

How about some limits and boundaries? I will never know if all he is doing is working. With the way he is acting now combined with his history, Mother Teresa couldn�t trust the guy. That�s where my mid-nuptial agreement post comes in. That may not sound so positive but I�ve not been good about protecting myself. Maybe it is time. During the affair we made a huge investment in a house and when my H was fired we lost it all. His denial was so strong, he used absolutely no sense. I believe he has changed but that is so concerning. Now we are looking at buying another house. I�d like to be wise about this.

It would be very sad to break our family apart (my granddaughter is as close to having a child as he will ever get and loves him). I love him and want always to treat him well no matter what but truly I�d rather be alone than work through another affair. That agreement, especially if I managed to act very loving and kind to him but kind to me too, would give me a chance to say that perhaps clearer than anything else could.

With limits firmly in place, I think I could go back to my quiet, single person life style when needed and enjoy him when he is available to be enjoyed. That still is not my first choice but I might not get my first choice. Think I�ll leave him on the couch next time he parks there and go do something more interesting. Maybe I�ll find ways to influence him toward that first choice vision as I go along because I think he would like it too and just doesn�t know that it�s possible.

Dunno if what I’m about to post is good or bad.

You posted that your H’s work comes waaaaaaaaaay before you. I think you should consider this, 2L…

You are viewing his actions and superimposing assumptions about his feelings onto that. Does he “love” his job? Perhaps, but you certainly can’t compare the “love” of an activity to the love of another person.

Apples and oranges.

And his workaholism must be at least partially motivated by fear. He lost his job once, and it could happen again. Also, men tend to define themselves (a little too much) in terms of their professions. Hard work is a sign of a “good” person.

So, the bad part is that you may be right. He may never change his behavior.

But I can’t help but think that it’s better to be loved than feared. In that respect, you have an enormous advantage over his work. Regardless of how he behaves.

Andy

WARNING THIS IS PRETTY DOWN MATERIAL.

The tears are coming back. Went to physical therapy for a recurring shoulder problem. It is in my H building so I stopped by to see him. He did seem genuinely glad to see me. There was going to be a party for his coworkers and he invited me. One of the coworkers is someone who my H has told that I get upset when he works late. This guy's response was something that bolstered the whole idea that I am unreasonably demanding. I AM NOT UPSET ABOUT HIS WORKING. I wouldn't care how much he worked if he would stay in touch. I know about lots of couples who hardly ever see each other but they stay close with loving phone calls, e-mails, and quality conversation during their time together. They are a team. My H views me alternately as the opposition and the job coach and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it. From what he told me of their conversation it sounded to me that he has this guy thinking I'm the opposition. (He doesn't tell other people about the endless hours I've listened to his various work stories. Yes, I am angry! But NOT about listening to the stories, I'm angry because after all that I still get cast as the obstacle). I couldn't go because I started crying. It was not possible to hold back the tears. I told my H I wasn't feeling well and wasn't up to seeing all these people at the party. He seemed to think this was some kind of oppositional, disloyal behavior on my part also. I doubt he saw the tears.

I will be visiting my daughter and babysitting our granddaughter for almost 3 weeks in July. This has been pretty routine since we moved and was part of the deal for moving. I have told him that when I'm away I'd like to talk to him frequently but when I called he usually seemed bothered so I've stopped calling. He calls very rarely.

I'd really like to go back to the marriage counselor but he won't go. It feels impossible to get him to understand that I don't want to keep him from work. I know how important that is to him and want him to reach his dreams. I've sacrificed a lot for his dreams, without a second thought, because I love him and want him to get what he wants. All I want is for us to keep connected. If we don't, I think it is just a matter of time until he has another affair. I won't have an affair, can be happy about other things in my life but I don't want to spend the rest of my life putting so much energy into this marriage.

Guess I'll take another prozac. May even have to start it up again. I'm allergic to Wellbutrin and prozac blocks me sexually but that's better than frequent,uncontrolable crying.

A real 180 for me would be to stop thinking about my marriage!

With all that said, it is true what you say Andy about the love he has for me vs the obsession/fear/ambition/gamut-running he experiences with his work. I feel sometimes like he is as knotty a problem for me as his work is for him. Hmmmmmmm

Lost it big time last night. When H got home I couldn't stop the tears. Tried my best to tell him about my saddness without blameing him. Told him I think this could be solved with minor adjustments that aren't time consuming. Told him I was proud of his passion, endurance, and commitment to work and I hope there could be a way to not loose any of that but to find a way that isn't such torture to him and that allows us to stay connected. It did not go well. If the pattern holds true, he will be very rejecting of me and see me even more as the obstacle. What I have to do now is not see myself the same way. Took another prozac this am. I'm feeling very bad about myself and know it can get a lot worse than this. Maybe I should call my psychiatrist. I wish my H would come too but don't dare ask him.

{{{2L}}}

I'm so sorry you're down in the dumps right now. It's easy for me to say he loves you despite his behavior, and it's easy for you to agree on an intillectual level.

But feelings don't follow so-called "logic".

I truly wish your H would put in some effort. I kinda suspect that he would put some effort if he wasn't so busy trying to force independence on you.

I'm not sure if this sounds right, but what I'm trying to say is that when I pursued my W, she saw it as dependence. She once told me that she feels I "need her" rather than "want her" I think she distanced in kind of a "tough love" sorta way so that I wouldn't be so dependent.

I get the impression that your H is doing the same thing.

I know it doesn't sound very DBish, but I think you should (without pressure) keep letting him know that you don't want major changes. Just a few little ones.

He's afraid that if he gives you an inch, you'll think you're a ruler.

Hope you feel better soon, 2L.

Andy

Forcing independence? I don't know. We are pretty merged in a lot of ways. One just about as much as the other. But at the moment we don't trust each other to provide any kind of emotional safe place. I'm the optimist that keeps things going and I'm getting tired. It would be hard for us to split up but at the moment I wish I could be back with people who know and love me in my home town in some little life that he was not a part of. What I really wish is that we could cut the cr*p and put together some kind of reasonable life together.

I do think you are correct about the giving an inch part. I don't want a power struggle. I want a loving relationship.

I hear ya, 2L.

It's ironic, but I bet he's tired of the power struggle, too. That's why he doesn't wanna give. That's why he gets short tempered when you want something.

In my case, I broke the circle by giving in completely. She thought I was controlling. Fine. I abrogated all control.

After awhile, she got sick of that. She thought I was giving up things for the wrong reasons. She thought I was giving in simply to keep the peace. She was partially right, but it was also because the only way I could think of to have an equal partnership was for both of us to think that we have one. So, it was her turn to control.

I get the impression that in your case, he’s always been the one in control, so I don’t know if this would work. I have a feeling that you just hafta keep trying to negotiate, and convince him that you’re not after complete control.

A relationship is built on negotiation. Relationships have problems when the couple doesn’t know how to negotiate.

Andy

Well step one is to calm down so I'll work on that. Speaking of work, gotta go do my commnity activist work--3 meetings today--that will probably help too. Hopefully I can help build affordable houses, improve transportation, education and the incredibly dirty air in this state in which I now live, and help young adults get their GEDs even if I can't straighten out my marriage. My house is not as neat as it used to be. My husband does not get as many gourmet meals as he used to, but too bad! Thanks for the kind words. I need to be patient with my H but not buy into his crap either!