New Year, new thread, I wish it was a new story. Some days I think W is bipolar, but I think it's just playing along with what is convenient. Last night kind of sucked, today was pretty close to reasonable. Some days I feel quite positive, some days I just seem to be waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Had a great talk with one of my friends, as we were talking about Rs in the new year. He made quite a few good points and of course he complimented me on my fight to "do the right thing". Later that evening, another friend picked up on a few things and approached me about W and I's R. Of course, since he was a close friend, I did confirm there was problems. He questioned me about some details he had learned of, since I didn't deny them he knew he was on the mark. Didn't have to say much to him, I guess his sources were good and he knew me well enough to read me well. Need less to say, he was not pleased with W.
So will this new year be the beginning or the end? Time, I guess will tell. I'm hoping that W is starting to second guess her plan and really look at it from the kids and I's perspective. If she does go through with things, I think there will be quite a few people who will not look on this nicely. It is surprising (not really) how many people who have grown up in split homes are avid supporters of making it work. Some day I just want to say to W, "your family is so big on family, do you think they want you to break up yours?" "Why can't you give the kids what you had?"
Well, I hope all of you have a better New Year. Let's see what this forum accomplishes for us this year. Hopefully there will be some successful exits.
Amen to that, we got a brand new spanking year folks, let's make the best of it
New Year Phoenix, can you make it Happy too?
I am sorry to hear you so down and seemingly focused on what MAY be going to happen. Remember that article I refered to quite often a year or two ago Take Divorce off the Table? I'll see if I can round it up again. I actually printed it and gave a copy to H to read. There's another thing too that was sent to me, The Non Divorce Divorce. It's about people staying together for the convenience of M. I wonder if that is H and me.
Is W still sleeping on the couch?
What I really want to ask you is if you know the laws in your state about S or D? If your W does file will you have to leave the house? what are the 'rights' as the father? If all the signs are that W is soon to pull the trigger you should be thinking about taking the offense and being sure YOU are protected and your kids. I so hate to bring this stuff up to you but we all know that safe and sorry is better than just sorry.
(((PS)))
Chin up, my friend.
I agree with WCW, Phoenix! Make sure you know your legal rights, but still continue the fight.
We just got back from our previous city .... visited family, and our D20 who just had a baby. She seems happy, but who can say for how long given that she is living with her idiot, much older boyfriend, who is now sporting a red full mohawk (can we say MLC?).
Anyway, I hope the new year brings you clarity, peace, and love. I especially hope it brings your W a 2x4 from someone she knows and trusts, and that she wakes up from the fog.
I wish all that for everyone on this BB.
Take care.
Thank you all for your input. Yes I am starting to focus on what I should be aware of in case something happens. Part of the problem I face is finding the information out without appearing to be throwing in the towel. WCW, send all the reading you have, it will be seriously considered. The answer to your question is yes. But the kids are starting to ask W about it.
Right now I'm just trying to KLA while W is piddling around with this R of ours. It's funny how W's response to me can change from one minute to the next, even when I'm not even at the house. (Just calling home from work). Why do W's have to make life so difficult?
(Just messing with you guys).
The other day I fell asleep on the couch, then woke up later with a sore hip from the couch frame. This might be poor DBing, but I got a smile on my face. It was nice to know that something was making "an impression" on my W in regards to her sleeping arrangements.
Don't think PS is going to buy a new one any time soon, unless there is a permanent change in W's "position".
OK, tell me if I'm wrong here. I found "us" doing something the other day that indicates to me that there is some reconnecting happening. You know how it is when you have a good friend and there will be a group discussion going on, something will be said and all you have to do is look at each other and there will be no words said, but each of you know what the other one is saying. Well W and I have been having a few of those. I think in a way, we are both starting to feel comfortable enough around each other to let that happen. Most of this has to do with if W will let her guard down.
I want to thank my DB friends here for helping me make it through this last year, I could not have done it without you. My hope is that I have been as much of a positive influence on you as you have been on me. It nice feeling a part of a team that is trying to accomplish something so important in so many peoples lives.
all you have to do is look at each other and there will be no words said, but each of you know what the other one is saying
Yes, I get that also with H but I don't know if it really dawns on him how well we CAN know each other. There is still that whole other side of him that is so dark with so many secrets that appears just as often or even more.
Part of the problem I face is finding the information out without appearing to be throwing in the towel. WCW, send all the reading you have
Internet search, ask people who have been there, phone calls, all in your own privacy. It's not throwing in the towel, it is being proactive if you think W is on the verge. Protect yourself. You don't want to be served one day and find out you cannot even go back home.
Here is the info I was refering to -
Denying Divorce: Forget About Divorce as an Option, It Just Might Save Your Marriage No one is saying that your marriage isn't difficult. It might even be miserable. But an interesting set of statistics shows that people who take divorce off the table as an option not only resolve their issues, but end up being happier than ever. If your marriage is feeling troubled, and you're considering divorce, consider trying alternate therapies instead, marriage counseling, or just some open communication.
But whatever you do, don't bring up the "D" word as an option, because doing that will change the rules of the game. Now, of course it's important to acknowledge that there are a lot of influences on you to get a divorce. Your friends who don't like your spouse, legal advertisements, even popular culture. It's a common statistic that most marriages end in divorce, and so it seems like an acceptable, even normal way to resolve problems in a marriage.
But let's look at some statistics. Of all the couples surveyed who were contemplating divorce and then decided not to go through with it, 80% claimed to be happily married only five years later. In all likelihood this is due to two elements. The first is that those couples who decide not to consider divorce, the only remaining option is to deal with the problems experienced in the marriage head-on. This is a powerful and proactive tactic that will lead to acknowledgement of the problems the couples face, and maybe even to solutions.
The other element is that once divorce is considered, the dynamic of the relationship is changed. This is a more subtle, though far more destructive product of considering divorce. The dynamic of this is simple. When a fundamental disagreement develops in a marriage - as it will in almost all relationships - those who never consider divorce are forced to deal with the disagreement. Those who do consider divorce preserve an "out" that can be used without ever addressing the issue.
As the problems in the marriage mount, or the fundamental issues become more divisive, the easy out of divorce can become more and more appealing. This thinking will take both of you, however. When both people in a marriage are actively searching for a solution to a problem, and both accept that divorce is not - and will not be - an option, a solution will almost surely be found. You and your spouse will be asking what you can do to make things better, rather than asking if it's worth it, or if you should cut your losses and run.
Remove divorce as an option and endeavor to go into relationship counseling, therapy of some kind, or just talk about your problems in a mature and open way. It seems simplistic, but statistically it also seems to work. Those who deny divorce as a viable end to a committed marriage will also be more motivated to work on that marriage, and work through the problems.Also, this was interesting from another pov -
non D D W's response to me can change from one minute to the next, even when I'm not even at the house. (Just calling home from work).
I would say there is a number of reasons. One is that for whatever reason she finds you very abrasive. Two is that she is very guilty. Three is that whatever you do or don't do she finds intrusive on her own life. You may not be the cause of her change in response but you get the brunt of it. Remember the outside world has a lot of effect on all of us. The end result is the same, it's still all about her and not about you.
Why do W's have to make life so difficult? (Just messing with you guys).
Um, because W's are married to H's?
Thinking over what you have said I do think W has quite a problem with being able to work things out. She doesn't mind trying to figure things out with D17 or S15 but when it comes to PS, that's dealing with things on a peer to peer level, which I think W has a real problem with. (not just in M)
I have been thinking about being able to have it so that D is taken off the table. It' hard to be pro-active when things are sitting on " the edge of the table, waiting to fall off". I haven't seen W in the real low and agitated funk that usually brought on the D word lately. Why? How? Don't really know. However W seems to be expressing herself more in non R interaction.
I was really sad to hear about that woman (in SLC) that got shot by her stbxh right in front of her church. There were some interesting comments/opinions said in the online version of the paper. Both sides of the coin and how thin the line is. Kind of scary.
Thanks WCW for finding my new thread. It looks like you need to start a new one too.
things are sitting on " the edge of the table, waiting to fall off"
That sounds to be about the same as walking on eggshells. You know this is the time to be the strongest and act secure! Go on with your life as if your M will last forever. Don't just act the part, live it! It could aggravate W to the extreme that things will hit the floor, or she may go with the flow you are creating. Are you ready?
I've seen a lot of news but I didn't see that story. It sounds bad.
Thanks WCW for finding my new thread. It looks like you need to start a new one too.
I haven't had much to say other than same old same old but I see Glenda is looking for me, I'll copy and paste Jan from last year and the year before and the year before and jeesh I am tired of counting how many years this has been.
I hear you there. Over the Christmas season I had this dream/wish about W having an Ebenezer Scrooge or even a Saul on the road to Damascus experience. This lead me to consider in my mind what W would say when ask "Why persecutest thou your H"? Of course the scene where Scrooge is pleading with the spirits if the visions he was being shown were certain, or could be changed, played out in my mind. Of course seeing real remorse and effort out of my W touched my heart and helped me to understand some of the pain she is going through. This could be a fault of mine, but I try to understand things from others perspective.
Anyhow, I go over that in my mind a fair amount some days. However, like you say, I do live my life like this M is going to go on. Am I prepared of the big D? No, but I don't think you really could be. Will I survive? Yes. Perhaps W is looking at my, "not going to dwell on it attitude", and has decided that perhaps she better be real sure before she "pulls the trigger". Let's see how this plays out.
Nothing real new to report. Compared to three years ago, yes things are better. I suspect enough people have said enough to W, mix that with my unwillingness to accept D and W has decided to watch and see what improvements and changes can be made in our R. W seems to be more forthright about what she is doing, more sharing in decisions and future.
One thing I have learned from this experience is to get more involved with what is happening in my life and enjoy what does happen. Especially, when it comes to the kids, I have to enjoy them while I have them. Hopefully we'll have this R straightened out, so that when the kids do finally move out, there will still be a reason to stay together. By then W should have gotten over this and I should hopefully be able to forgive her for all that has happen.
I'm glad things are feeling better Phoenix. Good for you for standing up for what you believe in! Just keep walkin' the path brother.
So much going on these days that I don't have a lot of time to focus on the problems. I worry some days if I'm doing enough, however I also know that I am responsible for me, so there is only so much I can do. Right now I feel that even if things do "go south", I have done the right things and can answer with a clear conscience. There are so many that are surprised at what I have done and what I have put up with. They don't even know half of it and I'm fine with that. I feel when it comes to the time when we sit back and look how this all plays out, I'll be okay.
I think we bury ourselves in activities subconsciously so we don't have time to deal with the M problems. At least for me I believe that is true. It is also where I get my WOA, from people who don't have the baggage of an R with me so it's easy for them to give a compliment.
Phoenix, you're focusing too much on going south. Quit. It's not healthy for you or the sitch.
What do you smile about? what makes your eyes gleam?
Yes, I do need to refocus these days. So concerned about what could/should be happening in and out of the R. As you say, doing so profits me nothing. On the up side this week I will be apart of a few events, at which I will receive recognition. Of those, W will be at one.
Recognition can mean validation ... for your hard work at your job (or other stuff you do in your life outside the M), and maybe your W will see another side of you that she forgot existed. Just try and play it cool, enjoy the ride for what it is now, and continue being patient. I would say don't focus too much, or you might become obsessed on small matters. Just a thought!
Anyway, I am off to veg out in front of the TV. Don't have to feel guilty 'cause H ain't here. Hahahaha!
^^^ bump up ^^^
Just wondering if there has been any impact on your W's attitude since the passing of the P? So many people have commented on how he is now with his W, and I wonder if it makes some think about these things. Makes me want to try harder, anyway.
"How sweet is the assurance, how comforting is the peace that come from the knowledge that if we marry right and live right, our relationship will continue, notwithstanding the certainty of death and the passage of time. Men may write love songs and sing them. They may yearn and hope and dream. But all of this will be only a romantic longing unless there is an exercise of authority that transcends the powers of time and death."
--Gordon B. Hinckley, "The Marriage That Endures", Ensign, Jul 2003, 2–7
There seems to be a little change, some nights she seems almost "Non-alien", but then we're right back to "same old...". Also, there seem to be a little more interest in some of the things I do, an even an interest in family. However as I said that can change like the wind also. Not looking forward to the 14th, not sure what to do.
About the 14th--do what you want to do Phoenix.
If you're feeling like it's back to the 'same old', do the 180 and stand firm against the wind change.
Just sayin'.
That's a hard one, Phoenix! I guess, just play it by ear! Get a card that's not too mushy ... maybe a funny one, and make her dinner (include the children) so that there's no romantic pressure. Sorry, that's about the best I can come up with right now. My H won't be home on VD, nor the weekend after. So, not sure what's going to happen with us. Why do we have these ridiculous celebrations????? I have never been one for VD ... I would rather my H make a romantic gesture when he is inspired to do so, no matter what the day is (which, btw, has not happened very often in our 21 years of M ... sigh!).
Take care.
Has W done anything for you on VD?
Is there a pattern that she gets 'nice' around the time she's expecting something from you?
It's your choice, but I say no card, verbal acknowledgement only.
She needs a dose of how life would be without you. She doesn't have a clue!
We'll call this a non conclusive poll. You all have very valid points, I guess that's why I'm not sure what to do either. Things have been better, is it a matter of W wanting/expecting something in return? I think sometimes things get better when W needs my support or help on something, however, it's not always that way. I feel that sometimes W old stubborn resolve of needing D pops up it's head, but then not long there after W sees that things are not as bad as originally thought. In the overall picture, I think W knows the right thing to do, but her pride gets in the way. So right after something provides a difficult challenge, she goes into the "this isn't going to work" mode.
Right now I am leaning towards taking the middle ground approach in regards to V day. I guess I have a week before I really have to make the decision. Perhaps a little event a work today might have helped her see my value more clearly.
Lately I think a lot of subtle things, of which I have had no part in, have helped her see the importance of R and family. What can you say when other people and events makes you look good? D17 seems to be getting more involved in her own life and not buying so much into being W MLC accomplice. Taking a step back seems to have given D17 a chance for her to strengthen herself spiritually, by her own choice. W has been seeing her "busy" activities as just what they are.
By the way WCW, when issues with S11 and school came up recently, I think W got a good look at the way things could be without me. She had to deal with things she was not ready to handle, which on most other days I would step in and handle. Mix that with positive comments from teacher and staff of my ability to deal with S11. There seems to be a trend that when there is issues at school the teachers and staff tend to call me first, they see that I can calm him down a lot better than anybody else.
Have been listening to a lot of helpful materials in the M field, I think I'm feeling good about my approach. My feeling is that I have to learn to be firm but loving in how I deal with W and sitch. As W seems to mellow out I think she is starting to see that I have been just that, therefor there isn't much to be hostile about when she is stressed about the sitch. I guess my mantra now is "do what's right, for the right reason and let the cards fall where they will". That way, if this all goes south, I'll have nothing to feel sorry for or hang my head over. These Ms are two people together making decisions, sometimes one party can make mistakes. We each have to answer for ourselves.
I guess my mantra now is "do what's right, for the right reason and let the cards fall where they will".
A good mantra to have. If we do what we feel is right, and our motives are pure, then all will turn out as it should. We are all on a life's train journey, and sometimes we are just not at the same station (and, sometimes, some of us are stuck on the tracks), so we can misunderstand one another. Perhaps, that's what happened in your, and my sitch.
Take care, Phoenix!
I guess some days I don't quite understand how some days W wants to have tough expectations and standards on the kids, but some days not. Of course watching her chew out D17 for treating her brothers the same way W treats me, is a tough one too. I know they say to communicate, but some days I'm afraid to open my mouth.
Whew I know that feeling! H will recognize poor behavior between other people pretty easy and comment on it but doesn't see himself in the mirror. Maybe there's your answer, have W and D17 face each other and ask if they like what they see.
W claims she is unhappy because of being tied to me and she has D17 convinced that I'm selfish and controlling for staying around when I'm not wanted. So any time I question or challenge anything from W or D17, I'm a selfish control freak. Slowly D17 seems to be growing up out of this to some extent. Not sure if W will ever admit to herself what she is doing and grow out of it. Too many friends and relatives are getting tired of it.
Martyrdom can be such an unattractive trait, unless you're being so for deep, spiritual beliefs. Mmmm! So, your W is so unhappy that she can't bear to leave herself? I doubt your D17 is going to believe that line for very long.
Oh, you selfish man, you!
Yes, D17 has already grown tired of W's "make myself busy in my own life activities". As W was turning to the "dark side", she started doing all sorts of activities that would re-define her. Since she would try to get D17 involved in most of them, it would take on the guise of trying to get closer and involved in D17 life. Surprise, D17 loves her mom, but wants her own life. So slowly D17 is not as interested any more. D17 is too busy with her last year in high school to be involved with other "fillers".
I think W is starting to see that perhaps things aren't so bad, things that seemed glossy, really weren't. The things that seemed like what she wanted might hurt the people she loves most. Of course, I think it is becoming more clear that a friend of her's that was "blazing the WAW path", was not as happy in the end. I feel sorry for the lady, but I guess she got what she wanted.
I hope W can overcome some of her stubbornness and turn this thing around before it gets too late. It's amazing what a little humbleness and effort would do for us right now. By the way, I did get her a V-day card in which I wrote a bit of a note. Of course, she got me nothing, but has been relatively nice since. Seems to have gone over fairly well.
Selfish for my M, selfish for my family....I guess I am what I am.
^^^bumpity bump^^^^
Not sure what to say, not sure what to do these days. The pendulum just seems to swing back and forth. Not too far in any direction mind you, but swinging non the less. I think in some ways I have just become tired of thinking of this whole mess, and just push it out of my mind and deal with it as it comes, day to day.
Non R wise, my life has become more and more busy. A lot of people have been calling on me for my talents and time. In some ways it is kind of, "well I've got something to do, let me know if you figure your mess out". Don't get me wrong, I do still love my W, however I can see that I have and am doing all I can to turn this around. The next major step is her's. How will she play it out? I don't know.
Occasionally we have had times where we start to talk just like we did in the old days. This goes well till either W or I have to go off and do something. When we come back we're back in the old "trench" again. My mood hadn't changed, but W's did. I usually am not even around to cause the problem.
I feel right now that I'm in a trench where I can't see either end. Will there ever be an end? I hope to find out. Right now I guess we'll just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other till we get somewhere.
Well once again my doubts were confirmed. Apparently W is still up to some of her old tricks. A friend came forward to me and laid out the info for me, pretty straight forward. He said that he is tired of her actions and that he doesn't want to hear or see her any more. I get to break the news to her tonight.
Needless to say I'm a little disappointed. Not sure where this will all go by the end of the weekend, but things could be bad for the next 24-48 hrs. Had a hunch things were not going to get better any time soon. Although I'm anxious, I'm calm.
Old tricks = OM?
Hugs and prayers.
((((PS))))
My thoughts are with you, Phoenix! Let us know how you are doing.
Weekend from He**. Details under the radar. Essentially, most of everything I suspected was on the money. Of course that brought on the event we all fear. So where do you go from there. Trying to figure out our path from here and still operate. This is probably going to be short since I'm at work and need to still function for the rest of the day. I find myself in the land between sad, relieved and anxious.
A friend made the comment today that this thing has been eating at me for years and that I don't know who I am any more, I have just been focused on how to solve this problem. He was right. Bad DBing? Not sure.
(((PS)))
I find myself in the land between sad, relieved and anxious.
Time will help. I know you've hung in there a long time to keep your M and family together. We resist change, but sometimes it's a relief once it is finally rolling and we know what the factors are we have to deal with.
You know what else? it's okay for you to have all those feelings, to reach out for support, to be sad and scared and cry. Don't stuff those feelings, let them process.
Protect yourself, protect your kids.
It was nice to have comments from some friends and family complimenting me on how much effort I have put into trying to turn this around. Some times I feel it's not quite over yet, but I don't know of much else to do. So I stick to the basics and hold on for the ride. I still check in daily to see how my friends here are doing.
Hey! I think we're both up waaayyy too late!
(My hubby is in OR and I thought I would check out the bb.) I think of you everyday, Phoenix! You've done more than most, and I suspect you would do even more, if there was just a small possibility it would save your M. You are a good man ... always remember that.
Hey there guy--it's nice to see you around again! I know the wait for the proverbial shoe is excruciating, but you have the right idea.
Your stewardship is to do the best you can to do what you feel is right. Her choice is hers to make--out of your control. Give those kiddos lots of love and try to take it easy...let us know how it's going.
Hang in there.
My kids have been gone less than 24hrs and S11 has text me 3 times and called me 4 (all from W's phone). Puts a smile on my face knowing they need me that much. Also some text from W are a good feeling too. Although I'm not happy with where things are headed, I am at piece with what I have and am doing.
This whole DB process was definately the right way to go.
Phoenix--I'm missing details...care to share?
I'm glad you're feeling at peace. I put your name on a special prayer list today.
Spring break. Daddy's dream, to have the lifestyle of his W and kids. Hoping only good contacts are made on this trip. It has been quite and peaceful for me though. When there is only one person at home it is very easy to keep it clean. Maybe I'll leave a few things on the floor just to keep things "homey".
Thanks for putting me on the list. I hope to get down there myself this week and do some serious pondering. Met with a C last week, didn't have much more to say then I already had learned here, but did stress to focus on myself and live the right way. He was encouraged by my approach and attitude. I'm half tempted to call a summit meeting of DB minds, but as you know it's at a point where W is the only one who can make final call. She can either build pull or pull the plug. I think this week will be good for her to see how much she does need me.
I think this week will be good for her to see how much she does need me.
Ah, Phoenix, but isn't it about being wanted, not needed. Being needed is way too much pressure, IMHO.
I hope the weekend has been good for you.
Week has been nice. It's great to step back and just be my own person again, no stress. A change of mindset has been just shear pleasure. I do realize that sooner or later, back into the frying pan I go.
Enjoy it while it lasts then.
^^^^ going up ^^^^
How are things going, Phoenix?
Things are going fairly decent, dare I say decent. Why? Not sure. I don't think it's due to anything I have done. W went with kids on a trip during spring break and things have been better since. There's still the emotional detachment, but not to the same level as before. Also the standard pressure about D has not come up yet. W is more responsive in conversation, but still "touch and go".
I guess I'm still trying to figure out if this is a trend, or a set up for a "mental slam". The be nice and then drop the bomb has happened in the past. However some things have been changing outside of the R that could be coming into play. Sorry I haven't been on here much for the rest of you, but some days I feel like with all I have done, I still might fail at this. Kind of hard to deal with and face first thing in the morning, or just before bed.
Have been meeting with a C. He has confirmed some of my thoughts, but hasn't quite accomplished much for me either. Made a trip down to the T finally, it was good and confirmed my position. It's a great feeling that with everything else in limbo, at least there is a place of piece to go to.
Will expound more later, but I thought that at least I should keep my DB pals in the loop. Hope things are well there on the home front. Last time I look things were doing better for you.
Hi Phoenix! Your post has a feeling of acceptance to it. Am I right? Sounds like you are letting go, and letting things move along at God's pace.
It is good to have a place of peace to go to, and know that there is a grander, more cosmic plan, and that this (the negativity, and pain) too shall pass.
Thinking of ya, Phoenix!
Just not sure what to say on here any more. I think I finally know what it's like to be terminally ill, however for me it does kind of have a time line. I use to think I wouldn't come on here unless I had at least some words of encouragement, but I just had to vent. Perhaps what I could say is this, even though you feel like just giving up, you don't want this.
I don't know what the "big plan" is for me, however I do know what I have done and what I have put up with. I do know that W will get to enjoy the "mill stone" that comes from making this kind of choice. All though it might seem all normal on the surface, I have seen too many people's past D memories and resentments come to the surface as soon as I tell them what is happening to me.
Still trying to figure out how we're going to approach the kids about this one. The more I read this post, perhaps it is time for a new forum for me. Let's see, is there a "going down in flames" forum. Perhaps D but not done would be the closest fit. Not sure today if "not done" applies. I knew in high school I wanted nothing to do with the legal system, thirty years later I still have the same position.
Keep up the good fight DBers, this really does suck.
It does suck, Phoenix! There is no getting away from it.
But, please, be humbly proud of yourself, 'cause you did all and more than you could to save your M and tried so hard to prevent the break-up of your family. This is no longer in your control (it never was really) anymore ... it's out of your hands and in God's and your wife's. Let them fight it out. And, you know who will win in the end.
Do you know why, at this time, your W has decided to go ahead with the D? Is there someone else ... again!?
Take care of yourself, and know that we are here for you to vent as much as you want.
Thinking of ya!
Is there someone else. My guess is yes. Do I have hard proof? No, but all the signs say yes. Otherwise, why now after so long holding on to it? Add this to W on and off moods, wait and see, then full stem ahead. I also happen to stumble on a V-day card which was kind of romantic, but wasn't sent to me. It disappeared before V-day.
There are many other details that I don't have time to expound on. Needless to say some day she will have to account for her actions, I wouldn't want to be there for that day.
So what do you get your W for your anniversary after she "pulled the plug" on your M? Won't find that section at the Halmark store. Right now I am just working hard to have a "C" like attitude about the whole thing. In a way I have been a little surprised how church leadership has been taking such a stand off approach to this thing, but I guess if she's not in tune, what they say won't make much difference. I guess that's why I'm not in there position, I would say something.
How did RS lesson go? I was kind of glad to hear what your approach/state of mind has been towards your M. Hopefully that will eventually get you where your both need to be. Have a good week. If you have any great ideas, I'm all ears.
Hi Phoenix! I drove by the turn-off to your town on Monday! Thought of you, and hoped things were going better for you.
What do you get for your W on your anniversary? I would say, either a lump o' coal, or absolutely nothing (or a paper shredder???). Okay, I'm being a little lighthearted here, and I know how heavy your heart must be feeling now, but try and see that all will work out as it should, if we just leave it in God's hands (I am trying to take my own advice, but finding it difficult).
Right now I am just working hard to have a "C" like attitude about the whole thing.
Keep doing this! Your W is the only one that can change, and you can only do your best for you.
RS lesson went okay. I think I had too much info, and next time (if there is a next time), I will keep the lesson a lot simpler.
Take care.
W got nothing from me this anniversary. Didn't want to spend money that would not be appreciated and most likely resented. So we spent a good deal of the day together with the kids and called it good.
I'm definately taking a step back and take the ride approach. Enjoy what time I have left with my complete family. Kind of put a different perspective on things. Work wise I know I will perform better when all this weight is off my shoulders. After being so involved in my kids lives, I'm not looking forward to being an "outside" Dad. Some days I really wonder how the kids are going to do with out the "calmer head in the house". I know S15 was told by a friend he should live with me.
You should have called Monday, I could have used the input. Do you think Cactus is a good anniversary present? Some way maybe W will get the point.
Cactus would be a brilliant gift.
But, you were right, in that, why waste the money buying a gift that would not be appreciated. I hope your older children do choose to live with you, otherwise they may find themselves doing a lot of babysitting while mommy goes out to play. Just a thought!
I would've called, except I didn't have your number with me. Sorry.
But, you know you can call me anytime.
I think you have the right attitude ... live in the moment, and don't worry about the future. Also, don't let your W get to you. Try going somewhat grey, and just focus on the kids, and treat W like an acquaintance ... polite, but distant.
Time for LRT, do ya think?????
^^^bump^^^
Hope you're doing okay!
I'm doing okay. Over the last few days there has been social events where W and I have attended. Same crap as always, W trying to be distant but not too obvious. In one sitch I just said, "don't worry, I won't bite". How can a woman, almost 40 be so immature? Oldest two Ks are getting tired with "mommy's" self-centered behavior. Their not buying the "I need to do this so our house will be happy again". S15 said to me last night that the tension in the house is originated from W, D17 called W on a few of her self-centered behaviors on the weekend. I just stepped back and let the two of them "work it out".
Yep, I guess at this point I'm just along for the ride, but I sure wish there was something I could do. W has lost a lot of respect, both from the kids and friends. One friend in particular is of the mind, "I'll listen to (W), but I'm not doing much more than that, (W) won't listen to what I've learned from experience". I had a dream recently where W said, "Why did you let me do this"? I stood there for a minute and then said, "sorry, this one was all you". She paused, than said, "I know, what was thinking"? Some times you can't always rescue those that need help, not if they won't let you.
You've pretty much summed up my attitude. Thanks for checking in on me. LRT? That's my way of life.
Are you in limbo and waiting for the next step from W or are you playing offense and protecting yourself?
W having to answer to the kids 'calling her out' - priceless.
It's hard to say how things are going. Probably, I would say as good as can be expected, considering the looming outcome. Am I a basket case? No, but disappointed I wasn't able to turn this thing around. Because of the laws here, once the "roller coaster" is rolling, there's no exiting the ride. I can see the kids need me more than ever, but I don't want a messy court experience for me or the kids, let alone the bill.
Perhaps the best way to say it is, I know what is going to happen, I just chose to make the best of my time till then. The rope has been dropped and I'm not looking back at it, other than occasionally. I don't think W will pick it up, too much "crow to swallow".
D17 sure did call her out. Where is my video camera when I need it. Daddy was sure proud of his little girl. Did it have any effect on W? Not much, if any. What was it Yoda said about the path to the dark side?
To many things seem to indicate that life might not be so great for the younger ones once this mess all comes through. Some days I wish they had a show where Michelle shows up on the door steps of people on here and does a marriage intervention of some sort. I would give up my Christmas bonus just to see Michelle call my W to the carpet. True knowledge, research and experience against all the muck that has been passed off as truth to W. One can only hope.
Doing some definite GAL the next two days. Just love 3 day work weeks. However it's hard to get excited about projects around the house when your on your way out. It's amazing how my life has become a twisted version of "Survivor". However, I know well in advance who's the next one off the island.
Doing some definite GAL the next two days.
Good for you, Phoenix! Hope you have a fun weekend.
Your D17 sounds to be turning into quite a wise young woman. I hope your W wakes up one day and realises the negative impact she is having on the children (esp. the girls) at the present moment. But, at least, we know what kind of husband they will be seeking later in life, 'eh!
Take care.
More problems with S15 today. He sure is a stubborn type, just like his M. The funny part is that he feels that after things are settled later this summer, he will be better off in the new environment. He's probably right. D17 is not wanting to move past what she knows, I hope she doesn't do something stupid, giving her a false sense of grounding.
Ack. Sorry for the teen trouble Phoenix. Thinking of you.
I think stubborn can be a good quality too, depending on how it is applied. For instance, look at yourself. Stubborn enough to stick it out thru the worst of what W has thrown at you.
Keep your chin up.
It's been a rough ride today. Late night with company. D17 graduation. It is hard not to think of how this is all coming to an end. Made it pretty well till I came to work, too much time to think. Then W calls trying hard to info so we can "get this done". I know I'm doing the right thing, but why does it have to be such a rough ride?
Just tell her that you will "get this done" in your time, and the more she rushes you, the longer it will take. Don't let her control your life, Phoenix!
Congratulations on D17's graduation!
Quite a milestone ... the first to graduate.
PS, how's things? how was your Dad Day?
Dad's day was good and I had two meals made for me by D17. S15 was a bit of a pain, but ended up grilling the steak for dinner very well. W was her "normal" self, however she did make sure there was at least a card and a present from the kids. A lot of things said at church, I sure hope some of it hit home. But, I'm not holding my breath.
Just trying to keep myself going and not get into shut down mode. When I get overwhelmed I tend to do this. So far, so good. The longer I'm in this mess the more convinced I am that there are outside forces pushing this along. But, as you know, there's not much I could do to change that or W's view of it.
The kids and I did really well. That's the best I could hope for yesterday. Extremely worn out from this whole ordeal.
Hi Phoenix! I am glad that Father's Day wasn't a washout, that your W made some effort, as did D17 and eventually S15. I bet the younger ones were all over you.
The messages from church can be lifting, but it can also be making your W feel guilty, and therefore, forcing her to justify and deny the guilt. So, don't put too much stock in that from your W's perspective. It's just good for you to hear, and to feed your spirit. (I used to wonder why my H couldn't hear all the spiritual messages at church, and this is what I figured ... he deafened himself to it, because it didn't fit into what was going on inside his head and heart.)
Yeah, try not to shut down ... at least, for the sake of the children. They will need you to be front and centre in their lives as much as possible.
Just remember that your W has her own free agency ... to do good or not. It is her choice, no matter the consequences. At the same time, you too have your free agency, and I am impressed at how well you have chosen .... you have done your best for your family, and maybe now it's time to let W go, and do what she feels she needs to do. I know how painful all this must be for you and the children. I can just imagine how worn out you must be. Do stuff to relax as much as you can.
Take care!
Doing about as good as I can. I guess what is a huge thing for me right now is the amazement of how someone can be so deceptive, off center and then try to encourage the Ks to follow the teachings. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I'm at least trying to practice what I preach.
Your right, I think it will be awhile before the teachings of the church have an effect on her. I met her in a time where she was diligently trying to make the best out of her life, now it's a matter of trying to live like the care free young adult. We all have our free agency.
I'm trying not to let this eat me up too much. I still try to be the easy going person that I am. The bitter outlook on life doesn't suit me too well. There are too many things too enjoy in life to let this eat me up.
The hard part is getting excited about making plans for the future, especially when you have been trying to fight this outcome for so long. However, I can't think of much I could have done better. I've also learned that when someone wants to make an excuse for what they are doing, it really doesn't matter what your doing, you will be portrayed as the heavy. There is some comfort in the fact that the kids are seeing through it.
There are too many things too enjoy in life to let this eat me up.
This is good to hear, Phoenix!
Your children sound like awesome spirits!
For the time being, try and live in the present .... the future is still fluid, and who knows what it will solidify into. Well, I guess HF has an inkling.
Hope you can have some fun over the summer. We may be coming down to Portland mid-July (myself, D15 and daughter's friend).
Thinking of ya!
Hey Phoenix,
It is pretty amazing how the whole mote/beam concept works. I would be hanging on to my beam for dear life if I were making the choices she's making...couldn't live with myself if I didn't. Actually, I take that back. I've always been more of a hunt and eliminate the beam kind of girl. But we all have our path to walk...
You have such a great handle on your stewardship in all this. And it sounds as if you have raised/are raising some truly incredible kids.
You're in my prayers every day. (You too BeingMe.)
Thanks for keeping me in your prayers, Aud! I sure do need it.
How are you doing, Phoenix? Hope you had a good weekend.
I'm hanging in there. Even though I have done as much as I can, I still feel some days that I have failed. I'm lucky to have some good friends to let me know/assure me, that her choices are exactly that. In the whole E perspective it hurts, but I know that I have done what was asked of me and that the person I married was not a bad choice. A combination of bad choices on her part has put us where we are at. We're probably down to less then the last month. However, I have decided to focus on the positive, so I can make it through this whole mess.
One thing that kind of makes me angry is that this whole thing came to a head just because I had "a spine" about something and called W on one of her bad choices. I think instead of admitting a mistake, she just decided that the R was not worth working that hard for and threw this in my lap. The society we live in these days is deflect blame and let others pay for our mistakes. I really don't see how she will be able to teach morals and accountability to our kids after this. The older kids can read this one a mile away.
Prayer and reading keep me going. Hope all are doing well. Being Me, I don't know how someone can expect to put minimal effort into a M and expect to get much out. My heart goes out to you. Aud, I'm glad your having progress. WCW, put a spur in that old horse. Hopefully you can find a usefull 2X4 floating by your ranch these days. Apply liberally!
Even though I have done as much as I can, I still feel some days that I have failed.
When you have tried your best and put your all into it that is not being a failure. You may not have reached your goal but that involved another person with you that you could not control. You did not fail on your part.
the person I married was not a bad choice. A combination of bad choices on her part has put us where we are at.
That is very generous of you to say that. It was an eye opener for me to read this too! So many people think they made a bad choice in their M partner, I think you're one of the first that said they didn't! I agree with your thinking and will say that my H was not a bad choice of a M partner. I was head over heels about him, and deep inside I still am but I have to keep it smothered to survive these years of strife while we struggle thru his poor choices.
However, I have decided to focus on the positive, so I can make it through this whole mess.
I love your attitude!
One thing that kind of makes me angry is that this whole thing came to a head just because I had "a spine" about something and called W on one of her bad choices.
Phoenix, you can't be a henpecked H and scared to put your head on the block. Is that how you would want to live the rest of your life? unable to be a partner and have a voice?
I think instead of admitting a mistake, she just decided that the R was not worth working that hard for and threw this in my lap. The society we live in these days is deflect blame and let others pay for our mistakes.
She is very childish for a mother and a wife. Does she pound her fists while she throws her tantrum? oh no, she just sends the paperwork and runs.
I really don't see how she will be able to teach morals and accountability to our kids after this.
You're kidding right? she doesn't know what it is.
WCW, put a spur in that old horse. Hopefully you can find a usefull 2X4 floating by your ranch these days. Apply liberally!
But with a smile!
Hi Phoenix! You are NOT a failure! Keep walking the high road, and doing stuff for you and the kids.
Take care.
Yes, I have to keep reminding myself of that. In the evenings when I come home, my kids are all over me. My kids call my phone during the day, "to see how your doing". My S15 says that living with me will allow him to be more of his own person. My D17 now says, "I love you Daddy". I just can't see how I can stop this from happening to them. That's when I feel like a failure. When you do all the right things and then you end up where you were trying so hard to avoid.
This, if nothing else makes me the most mad at W. I'm kind of think skinned when it comes to me, but to my kids, that's another story. No I'm not going to live my life afraid to put my neck out there once in awhile. W always has encouraged me to be more aggressive about doing things and getting the job done. Now that I stand up to her about what I see to be wrong, here comes the papers. Take the ball and go home as the saying goes.
I don't want the D but I'm not going to live under her thumb my whole life. In my attempt to try to do so much to please W, I got too focused and didn't see that what was standing in the way of W being happy with what I did, was the fact that she had not found how to make herself happy. I think there were too many things avoided or left unfixed in her life that she could not be happy anyhow. If you do not appreciate what you do have, you will never be happy with what you gain with it.
Perhaps if I just keep working on what I do have control over, the rest will sort itself out.
Perhaps if I just keep working on what I do have control over, the rest will sort itself out.
Precisely, Phoenix! I think when we let go, things do work out for the best.
Thinking of ya!
I think you're 100% right Phoenix. Everything WILL work out. Perhaps one day W will come to see her foolishness. Perhaps she won't.
Just keep setting a good example for the kids. They're already smart enough to know one when they see it.
It's the in between that's "killing" me right now. Thanks for all the positive posts. Looking forward to a few days off with S15. I will be looking on here to keep up the PMA.
Just a quick update. Ks are very concerned when I go out of town, very worried I won't come back. Not so when W does, she travels more than I do. Sure it tough convincing them though. It will be hard in the future explaining to them that this WAS NOT my idea. Had some good days off alone, S15 did not stay, but did a lot with a few of my friends.
Not sure how this will all play out, but I'm not ashamed of my effort either.
Oh, I doubt the kids think it was your idea ... them small people are very astute. And, you sure are right about not being ashamed of your effort in trying to restore your M. My goodness, Phoenix, you and I have been at this since 2004 (I think I'm right, 'eh?)!!! You have been the wiser DBer, and I don't know what I would've done without your good counsel, especially in the beginning when I was totally freaking out.
Once you come back a few times, your children will get the message that dad always will come back to them. It will be tough on them in the beginning, but you just have to be very consistent, and they will feel secure in your word.
I am glad you had some good day on your own, and with friends. It's good to do things for yourself. It helps to re-energize your spirit for the days ahead.
Thinking of you.
Hey, Phoenix! How was the 4th of July? Hope you had a good weekend!
Take care!
All went pretty good, no injuries to report. Was up late last night with S15 answering questions about R and how it applies in the religious arena. Did the best I could, but it still didn't add up well with him. I sure wish W would wake up and see the damage she is already causing.
From experience, I realise that wishing doesn't get you anywhere - live in the now, and just have hope that all will be well, once all we can do is done.
Sucks when you have to discuss this with the youth in your family --- they are so much more complicated, and have so many more scrutinizing questions.
Thanks for your insights on my thread!
^^^^^
^^^^^
W/STBX is pushing pretty hard to "get it done". Needless to say I hope for the best, but am not holding my breath. W seems to be in quite the hurry, but legally, I don't have to go anywhere till the judge says so.
Found out about a bit of a GAL event that was scheduled for me. I'm excited, but apprehensive about what could happen when I'm gone. When a spouse gets to this point in the game, your not sure what they will do. I have a pretty good idea what she might try eventually, but that will definitely cause her to loose face with a few people we know. It's hard when you know it will probably get worse before it gets better.
I've got some other things I would like to discuss with you, but I'll get back to you on that. It's a little late right now.
Try being proactive instead of reactive to whatever W is scheming. Do you think STBXW cares anymore what other people are thinking? Protect yourself.
Have fun with the GAL and try to forget the rest for a while.
So...details on this scheduled GAL event?
On the R front, too many details to cover here, nor do I really want to has that out on here right now. W is pushing hard to "get it done". New and "improved" set of papers for me to sign. A lot of financial aspects tied to it, so W is pushing hard.
Have to decide how and when to tell the younger kids that don't know. I would rather re-take any exam I have ever taken in my life than to do what I have to face this weekend. Please send your prayers this way.
((Phoenix)) Prayers are definitely with you--I know you will handle this weekend with strength and courage. I'm so sorry for your little ones. And you.
Well today will probably be the day I have feared the most. Pretty much have to sign the papers today. Since I have nothing positive to say, I'll just leave it at that and wish good thoughts for the rest of you. Keep up the good fight, do the best you can and show your beliefs in your actions.
Ah, Phoenix! So sorry! Hugs to you and your kids!
Thanks folks. It's a little better walking away from this knowing I have done everything conceivable in my power. I am at peace with my actions, not happy with the outcome, but I was starting to see that unless W was going to make some changes, nothing I did was going to mean a thing.
I'm not really excited about being a "time share" daddy, but I do know that the atmosphere will be better when I'm around the kids. The kids will be expecting some changes, hopefully I can implement a few positive ones. Get back to basics. Work on some of the goals in my life. Finish projects that get put off due to "other projects/demands".
I better stop there, keep this positive.
((Hugs)) Phoenix. I know you did everything you could, and I hope you ARE staying positive. I like your goals--so what are some of the specific things you're wanting to work on?
Thinking of ya, Phoenix! Hope your week is going well.
Real highs and lows this week. Two birthdays, fun activities but eminent situations. Tonight the young kids "get the news". My mind is all over the board on this one. Perhaps one of the things I have dreaded the most is going to happen, but sitting around waiting for it to happen is just as bad. This weekend I move. After this weekend I become a "time share Dad". I know it sounds hallow, but I've done my best. Some day I hope the young ones realize that.
In a weird way I'm looking forward to having a little bit of peace to get my head back together and to get away. Hopefully, I will be able to take some of them with me when I travel. I hope this is all worth it for STBXW, it's not going to make too many other people happy.
Is this a forced move? why do you have to leave?
I know what you mean by sometimes the dread leading up to an event is worse than the relief when it is over.
Thinking of you.
Chin UP.
Sounds like it was your birthday? I know it's redundant to say 'happy birthday' at a time like this, but I do wish it for you. Hope you have a good trip to Vegas ... I've never been there, but I've heard it's fun.
Yeah, how come you're moving ... D isn't your choice, so why doesn't your STBXW do the moving? I guess you're trying to make it as easy for the children as possible, which would be my guess (and, the only reason I would understand)?
Sending prayers your way!
Well to answer your questions, yes it was my B-day. Let me just say it would be a prime year for a MLC. W did make her best effort to make it as pleasant as possible.
On the other questions. Yes, the move is so the kids can have the best consistency as possible. In our state the H's get the scraps and of course we're a no fault state. If the W files first, your pretty much at the mercy of the judge. When I went to consult and Attorney, he looked at the papers XW presented, he said tweak this and that, "are you OK with the child support?", sign it and get it done. He pointed out that unless I was wanting to battle for custody (spending/waisting a wad of money), I should just take care of it out of court and us my money for a good down payment on a new house.
He said you are in an area and state that sides with the W and the judge who is female has a pretty slanted track record. Unless the W is unstable (drunk/drugs etc.), your pretty much toast and you would just be handing your money to me. I won't turn it down, but you would be more wise putting it into a new house to restart.
So after we told the little kids last night, I took them to the new place. The kids loved it, and were not too excited about going back over to the old place. So the move is this weekend and the kids were asking when they get to come sleep over. No doubt the kids do love there Dad. I'm sad in a way, but a load has been lifted off.
Do I regret all the effort I put into DB. Not in the least! I walk away knowing that I have done my best to make this work. Also I have left things in the best state I could think of, no bridges have been burned. If XW came to her senses, she knows that the communication is still there and that I will listen to her. What would happen from there? I have no guess, ask me in a year or two.
Hi Phoenix! I hope the move goes smoothly. Will you be living quite close to the children? In the same W?
Take care.
Yes, I will be close. Same city, 5 minutes away. Got clearance to attend same W, kids were very concerned/please when they asked me about that and I told them that. S9 was very sad that he would not be able to have his bed time routine (reading, puzzles, talking) with his Dad any more. He was pleased when I showed him the area which will be for reading, puzzles and guitar playing in the new place. D6 was pretty devastated, but was relaxed and pleased when she got over to my new place and got to sit with me and her brothers in the hot tub. S12, was P****D, kind of chewed XW out, wanted Daddy and after the visit to the new place, didn't want to go back to the old place.
I think the kids don't want to be apart of XW activities. It's hard for me to just keep my mouth shut and not be negative. But so far I have held my peace. So it's pretty much all over but the move. I hope to never make this "trip" again. For the next while I would say anyone better not be in my earshot and say I think I want a D without working hard at making it work. At that point I would have to quote Mike Myers from "Cat in the Hat", "I'm going to hurt you and it's going to look like a bloody accident". To get a D, in my eyes, you have to earn it and it's not going to be easy.
To get a D, in my eyes, you have to earn it and it's not going to be easy.
Ain't that the truth, Phoenix!!!!!
I feel so bad for your kids ... they must be so torn. However, they'll pull through because they have a dad who is putting them first. Your boys are at an age when they really need their dad as a constant presence in their lives. I know you will make sure they have that as much as you possibly can. Of course, your daughters also need you as much, but for different reasons. Lucky them, they will probably marry someone like you, while your boys will emulate your example as a man, so their wives are very lucky too.
It's hard for me to just keep my mouth shut and not be negative.
Good for you! It is pointless now to say anything. The kids seem to know whose driving the D bus, so keep taking the high road.
You've got a hot tub?!!!!! Awesome!
A lot of people are having a hard time getting their mind around what has happen to me. I have tried not to say too much. Many have said how proud they are of how I have handled it. The statement, "well, she'll have to answer for that", seems to be the phrase of the week. Those who have been down this messy path before sure cringe when they see the choice XW has made. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes either.
You are right, kids seem to be more attached to me than ever, except for D18. I think she doesn't want to feel like she is bailing on XW. I'm not going to push that one either way, it's something D18 is going to have to sort out.
Anyhow, the trip was good. Glad to be back, but miss the excitement of Vegas. My travel companions were always trying to "help me heal". I had a good time, but behaved. Wasn't about to go out and cause new problems.
What's W up to these days? still have om for euphoria?
How's your hot tub?
Vegas - got any travel tips? I was told by friends that next year is the 50th anniversary of NFR and that matches my age next year too so it will be a 'must' trip. Yikes!
I've been kind of stepping back and getting my feet under myself. XW is staying fairly busy with her "group" from work and getting the kids ready to go back to school. The latest OM is still in the picture, not really accepted well by the kids however though. S15 can see quite clearly that OM won't do well with S12. S15 has no respect for OM and is loosing respect for W as a result.
S12 was asking me if I'm married. I tell him no. He says "you need to be married". I asked him who I should be married to. "Mom, you need to marry Mom". Well, I guess I walked right into that one. I did my best to explain to him that this was something that might be quite difficult and wasn't all my decision.
Another problem I see coming is that every time I show up at XW house, the younger kids ask if they can go sleep at my house. I can see that when things aren't going as planned for her, W will get quite annoyed at this. D6 loves to fuss over her Daddy, I can see this is not going to sit well with XW after a while.
S15 is quite drawn into his computer when at XW's house, doesn't seem to miss it at mine. All though the new place is a little in transition with moving in, the kids feel very at home there. I'm trying my best to make it as comfortable as possible.
The trip to Vegas was good. A few things learned. Us the Tram and the Monorail. You can get from Mandalay Bay to the Hilton with very few steps, with little time outside, if you use these modes of travel. I didn't do this the first day and my blisters are still healing. The monorail tickets are for 24 hours and are well worth the $12. Avoid the cabs, they take you all over the place just to go 4 blocks, then charge you 8-12 bucks.
NFR? National Rodeo. Will it be at the convention center? Not sure if I remember which hotel it was near. We stayed at Mandalay Bay, it's at the end of the strip, but it was great. I was glad someone else was paying for the room. Any other questions, let me know.
Wait, did I miss that the D is already final?
om has met the kids already?
Where have I been?
I also thought that things have moved really fast ... especially for the kids. Their heads must be spinning. Not that you had much control, Phoenix!