So here we go on a new thread. W seems to have had a little bit of a change of heart for the positive. I'm sure three years ago when this all hit the fan, if I would of seen the positives of now a days, I would have been ecstatic. I would have felt that I was well on my way towards a busted D. However, since I now more fully understand where exactly I am and a lot of what got me here, I know I'm not out of the woods.
Don't get me wrong. I'm very thankful for the interaction that I now have with W. Also, I am excited that she can talk and plan more along the lines of us being together. However, I can still see that her heart is not really fully in since her ability to be intimately close is not there yet. However there are glimmers of light there, so we'll take it as a "just around the corner". Also, we don't really have the ability to sit and talk about our R either. She is really not able to sit and share her emotions that well. I don't know how long I can "sit and wait on this".
Who would of thought that when we were dating that communications would have become an issue later on in our lives. That use to come so easy back then. But however, those were very easy times and issues back then. For now I will stay focused on the target and see where it goes from there.
Phoenix,
I know that I'm missing a lot of the details from your posts, but I sense an overall emphasis on your W's weakness and failings. I understand that point of view completely (this applies to my sitch as well, so I'm really talking to myself too), but I know it's true that you get what you expect.
If you expect W to be selfish and weak and lax in her efforts in your R, that's exactly what you'll look for first in every sitch. The positives just won't be enough to take your attention away from the negatives. She in turn senses the criticism and you both continue on the downward spiral.
Things aren't perfect now. Will they ever be? Maybe not in this life, but we have to get there from here somehow, and find some joy on the journey. I'm glad you are grateful for how far you've come. You've struggled and been patient for a long time...maybe a new level of patience is what is required here and now--how would W respond if she was treated in a way that displayed to her your full love and respect for a week, a month, three months...free from any subliminal accusation or frustration? Just love her for who she is beneath all the frailties and mistakes--what would YOU lose in an experiment like that?
Have you had a chance to read "Bonds That Make Us Free"? It addresses this very idea in depth, and is something that your W should not find offensive to see you reading, as it's not necessarily marriage focused--it's for all relationships in life and the case studies presented cover a wide variety of scenarios.
I understand exactly what you mean, Phoenix! I still have no idea what to do, except for the letter I sent him about giving him space, and hope that he will do something once his job sitch is settled. Eventually, I will shake things up, and maybe that's where you're at? Time to do something different, that will grab her attention. I know what you mean about how easy it was to communicate in the early days ... we all do, I guess. It's like we were on the same frequency, and then we lost it.
It might be worth doing as Aud advises ... I tried it for a few months, and although we got closer, it didn't get him talking about his feelings, or anything, and he still (as he has done in the past) took me for granted. But, your W may react differently. It's not that I'm critical (way past that stage), or unloving, but I don't initiate anymore. I am floating along, and waiting for him to do something that will make me feel all of him is plugged into the M.
Anyway, hope your Labor Day weekend is going well.
I'm going to go with the book and see what it can do for me. Things seem so close to the brink of heading down the right path, I just have to figure out how to make the right first move. What seems to be the sitch is W has come to the closest she can figure to go, looks down the path, but is still figuring out if that's what she wants for sure. Like you say BeingMe, I have to be the greener grass.
This week is going to be tough, W got some major things ahead of her. She can handle it, but I can see how she is apprehensive also. Perhaps it is time for a note of love, encouragement, support. Show her where the real love is.
Aud, really needed your words, for my H is the male version of PS's wife, there but not really fully there. Just had an exchange of txt msgs (amazing, on the phone we were getting at each other but we are much more civil we write to each other!) and he confessed to me that he feels our connection has been totally crushed, that he's almost hopeless.
Yes, he's going to a T, and he's home, but he still feels terribly miserable. Breaks my heart to see him in this state, I honestly forget that he is hurting so and that he feels so lost, that the 2 T sessions are just the beginning of a long recovery and that I can n't expect my H back just yet.
Patience.
Not the storm on the cup of water I raised today about something that now seems insignificant and which just led him to believe that we are beyond help.
People, choose your battles.
It's all so darn hard to walk the line. Shouldn't be, but it is.
Patience.
Compassion.
Peace.
Love.
Perseverance.
These are the qualities that will win the war.
In our sitches, it's difficult to pick the battles, to lay down our pride and instinctive self-preservation mechanisms...especially when it feels like we need them most in just this circumstance.
Send the note Phoenix. Be her rock, her safe place, her greener grass.
The note will have to wait for a few days, but the last 24 hours have been pretty good. Have seen a few good responses out of W. She has some important days ahead of her, usually when under stress is when she "pushes away". But not this time.
Even when I took a kiss this morning, the response and after interaction was good. I hope this is the beginning of a good trend. Something inside says it is.
I'm sending some positive waves out your way. Cat, stay strong and stick it out. I think in my sitch, an event that probably started this whole thing, ended up being the solution.
thanks PS, as much as this second op event has rattled me out, I realized that had I not found out H would've kept me in the dark about his void and just faked it all along over again and then when he couldn't put up the facade anymore he was going to pull another dissapearing act claiming he tried but didn't work.
This time he is seing a T and with luck in time we'll both be going back to the MC.
And we live to see another day
Hearing that you've got a T involved might be the best thing. Although W seems to be working things out in her mind, again I have to worry if she really has a good handle on what needs to be addressed. Right now I'm not going to push it, perhaps when things have settled down and I have a better read on what the sitch really is. For now I'm taking the positives as such and showing a little faith and confidence in W. The next few weeks I think she will see how much she truly needs me and that the grass is still greener here.
The interaction from W seems to be increasing and once again we are talking about events and starting to work as a couple again. I'm making sure I'm using proper DB techniques and trying not to solve all her problems for her. Seems funny at times when W will notice problems, that we had ourselves only a few months ago, in other peoples R and state what they need to do to fix it.
I'm glad I'm not the only person who has learned something.
Cat03, as long as H keeps seeing T, there is going to be some change. Hopefully he will listen to what is being said and move in the right direction sooner. (((((Hugs)))))
Seems funny at times when W will notice problems, that we had ourselves only a few months ago, in other peoples R and state what they need to do to fix it.
Isn't always easier to fix someone elses problems?
thanks PS, I have to remind myself that my H needs to fix himself, that I have to stop telling him how he feels (according to me).
The interaction from W seems to be increasing and once again we are talking about events and starting to work as a couple again.
This sounds so positive, and I am holding thumbs for ya, Phoenix!
Working together on stuff is key to a successful M, I think. My H and I were such a good team when the kids were young, and somehow, we lost that along the way. Hope we get it back.
I'm getting a chance this week to show W that I'm really here for the long haul. Most things seem to be getting a decent result, no real negatives. W last trip down memory lane seem to have quite a good affect. Why? I don't know, perhaps something woke her up.
Just plowing ahead.
I'm getting a chance this week to show W that I'm really here for the long haul.
What's different this week than any other? isn't that what you've been doing all along?
, again.
Don't set the plow too deep. Sometimes a shallow furrow gets good growing results too.
Hey! What about my radar?
How are ya doing, Phoenix!? Mid-week, and I have not done much ... ah well! I live in holiday land, where the sky is blue, and the shine doth shine ... well, until it starts raining. So, I feel like I'm on permanent vacation. Okay, I know I must sound somewhat smug ... and, yes, I am!
Hope whatever it is you are trying, is working!
Dude. I am so above the radar!
Hope your week's going well.
It's been an extremely busy week if you haven't figured out by my sporadic posts. W has had some major events happen recently that have given her what appears to be a reality check. So far it all seems for the positive. I'm taking it slow and steady, checking reactions as I go. What has been the big change exactly? Don't know, but I do know thanks to this site and the books I've read, I am reading for this and handling it as good as can be expected.
I really hadn't appreciated how much I have grown till I had to deal with OM's W just the other day. She obviously is not on the same track as we are here. Needless to say, I wasn't sure what to say to her. Considering the discussion and her attitude, I didn't feel I could say, "Hey, have you read this book"? For those of you who have followed this ordeal, it's been three years. My best indicators seem to tell me that interaction with OM stopped very close to the day of the bomb. It appears W did keep her word.
W appears to be working, at her own speed and direction, towards putting things right with us. Little things that would not have happened 2 1/2 years ago, are happening. I think the recent big events in her life have helped her realize what is real and important in her life. From what I have learned, some people who have had some real life experiences, have told her that she needed to stop traveling the path she was headed on. Assured her that what she had WAS the way to go and that was something they admired in our lives in the past.
So I guess my W has kind of had her epiphany that I had prayed for. I'm waiting to see how this all plays out. So far, so good.
So far, so good--phew! I'm glad to read your post and hope things continue on the current track. Have a good weekend Phoenix.
crossing my fingers for you pal))))))
I think it's getting time for an R talk. Somethings just don't seem to be lining up regardless of all the positives.
Good luck Phoenix.
Yes, good luck and hope it goes well. If we could just snap a chalk line to keep things lined up.
Good luck, Phoenix. I had the R talk with my H, and it seems he has no problem separating. I shouldn't have been surprised. Hope it turns out better for you.
Didn't have the R talk yet, still getting my thoughts together. For some reason I have the panic feeling going on today. Perhaps I need to lay out a little more what I'm looking for in our M. I have to remember it needs to be baby steps and not go full tilt.
The position with your H is unfortunate, without more details I'm not sure what to say on that issue. Sounds like he is at a very frustrated point in his life and just wants to bag what he can't control, then move on from there. Unfortunately, that doesn't work as we know here. Hopefully, he will learn that before he let's things deteriorate too far.
Had to step up last night and call W on something she seem to be fusing over. She did understand that I was just sitting there filling time, waiting for her, not trying to take over what she was doing. She really loves the martyr thing, but too often doesn't see the whole picture. Anyhow, after I explained things to her, we sat and did fine.
Some days she seems to be getting back into her old cycle, but I'm not going to take ownership of her issues, but I'm going to find out what I am doing wrong and address it.
That sounds really positive, Phoenix! Definitely a step in the right direction.
I'm not going to take ownership of her issues
This is definitely something we should all be working on, not only in our M's, but also in all our R's.
Take care.
I'd love to find out what I am doing wrong. Let me know how you do that and how it works for ya!
glad you had a decent talk with her. My H and I are still going on a snails' pace, but I'm glad our convos dont degenerate and both of us are able to control our tempers before they flare.
Last night I noticed that W and I had a discussion, during which she looked me straight in the eyes. This is a definite improvement from the old days where she would avoid eye contact (out of guilt), wouldn't talk to me unless she needed something...you guys know the drill. It was such a rush to notice that.
My challenge right now is to have the nerve to move things in a better direction, I am always afraid of spooking her. But then again I get to a point where I just have to do it, so I just go for it.
I guess W still can't see the purpose of working on M. She says that she still feels the same way and is trying to convince me that D is the best thing. I told her that goes against my core beliefs, however her decisions are her's to make and that she will have to bear them. Anyhow, there was much more to the whole R talk last night. All in all, it wasn't too positive, but she knows where I stand. She knows I will fight and that if she takes this South I won't stay a puppet in her pocket. This took her for a loop.
So, I guess she has some tough decisions. I tried real hard to avoid any bad DB errors, I think I did alright. But needless to say, I do feel that high anxiety again.
I'm so sorry to hear that Phoenix. I'm glad you made it clear where you stand. It's important that she knows it won't be a cakewalk. You're in my prayers, as always.
I hope you can find some time to do something that helps with the anxiety.
Phoenix, how are things?
Have you done any 180's since the bad talk? what if you stopped being a puppet NOW, why wait until she takes this south? That doesn't mean to be mean, but detach from being a pocket puppet. Could she use a dose of reality?
hey PS, needed to read your thread. Sadly, my motto right now isn't "I will fight for my R 'til the bitter end" it is "there is only so much I can put up with"
Have lots to learn still *sigh* don't know where you get your streanght for, hopefully it will rub off on me
I need to stop telling my H that there is a limit to my patience (going on mth two of being room mates and of choppy communication).
I hope your W decides chooses to keep the M, good luck PS.
This will have to be a readers digest version, but I do have to vent and put it out there so my DB friends here can keep me on task. It's been a real rough week or two. Here's the main points, since I thought things were doing better I tried to be more affectionate. We'll apparently I was wrong and W started to bring up the fact that her feeling haven't changed, haven't been able to/don't want to change them, can't see why to try any more, perhaps we need to get more serious about D. I said I didn't believe that was the answer, we could work this out, was not just going to role over and go away but be at her beck and call for support, babysitting.....
That was not what she wanted to hear. I stood my ground and in fact said that I was probably going in a completely different direction than what she planned. So I guess I put a stop in her machinery. That means I made it through the weekend without getting papers in my nose. Perhaps the fact of me fighting the whole mess, perhaps costing more than she had wanted, having to face a lot of questions from a lot of people......
I also know that a few people have let her know that she is nuts to throw this away. That didn't sit well either. As others have heard and come forward, most who have "been there and done that", they are echoing the "you don't want this" and "she's nuts to do this", event the ones that are not in a married relationship. Hearing all this is good, but it doesn't overcome the anxiety from day to day waiting to see if the other shoe will drop.
With all said and done, I know what I want to do, it's the time and ground in the middle that seems very daunting right now. My resolve strengthens when I get on here, or I sing the kids to bed at night, or when she does something that I've always found cute. Focus, focus, focus.
I don't mean to be a hard ___ to her, but I've kind of been pushed to my limit, I'm not backing down on this. What she is proposing is not right, so no I will not roll over. Too much at stake, and it's impossible to undo this mess once it's tied. Either one day she will love me, or hate my guts. My kids will know I went down swinging. I just hope that if this goes south, my youngest will remember all I did. Probably not.
Anyhow, I'm going to keep my eyes up, attitude positive, and don't let the negative build. I don't feel bad about anything I've done and if I did, I've apologized for anything I might have done wrong and I can't change the past. Sorry about the "dissertation", but it had to be said.
PS,
I know exactly, exactly that horrible, anxiety ridden, isolated feeling of hearing all the stuff your W said to you about her feelings not changing, and how you had to tell her to count the costs and that you are in till the end...
Ug. it is like trying to run a marathon with your shoelaces tied. You feel like a pathetic idiot, but you are not giving up. I love that in you and I pray God would give you mountains of stamina.
When I kept getting that speech from my H, it was because he was still all muddled up with the OW, though claiming it was over. It is the coward stance. They are too weak, enmeshed with the fantasy of the A, double faced and spineless to take a stand.
What if you just told her to go do what she wants? Almost a 'devil may care' attitude? I am wondering if she is taking you for granted, thinking you'll just put up with whatever she dishes out.
That was my tactic, and it apparently worked, as my H is not talking that way anymore and is really trying to improve things. Every time I heard the "we aren't getting anywhere and my feelings haven't changed" spewing at me, I imagined myself a duck and said, "you are free to go. I am not holding you. Go do what you want. I am not filing. Leave me if you want." I tried to let it roll off my back.
But geeeez, it kills.
I know that he talks that way when things are heated up with the OW. In which case I really have no control and nothing to work on. Sometimes I pretend he has already left me and I start making plans for my life without him. Like, "what would I do if I was a single girl?". It helps.
God bless you. You are a real man!
The Girl
hey PS, no need to appologize, it's healthy to let it out once in a while.
Don't know who said in the Separated forum some months ago, but I'll never forget it
"it might be too late but damn if it will be too little"
reminding myself that, to not give up without a fight.
Dissertation? Hardly! I wouldn't mind some more info!
Your W is a procrastinator, and is hoping an angel will appear that will leave no doubt as to what is right. But, that's not real life (at least, not that I'm aware of). She is also very stubborn, and doesn't like to be wrong! I like that you were more assertive, and didn't back down. I am sure your W has many wonderful traits, but they're not the one's that will help in your M sitch. Still, you could concentrate on those, and try and draw them out in some way.
Phoenix, you have been on this road for a long, long time. Maybe, it's time to really shake things up. Not sure in what way, but clearly being Mr. Nice Patient Guy isn't doing the trick. I know, because I was being Mrs. Nice Patient Gal, and that sure didn't do anything, although not much is happening now either. Sigh!
Just a thought!
Thanks, Girl, Cat03, BeingMe, WCW, for the good words and suggestions. Yes, I would say that the nice, patient, PS is slowly fading away. Am I going to go out and do something just to instigate and make a point? I don't think so, but I will stand up when the time comes. In the last R talk I was very clear, controlled when I said, "you know I do love you....but I don't believe or can go along with....". So I made my point that I wasn't going to be pushed into something that I did not want or support. This let her know that I would not go along with anything that I thought was wrong for me or the kids. Of course though, I did say that I recognized that she did have her own choices to make and the rest of us would have to deal with them as they came up.
I feel that W is a good person that has got trapped in some positions that she doesn't feel she had full control over (Not that many of us do her), some during our M, most previous. What she thinks this will do is give her back control. But I'm sure most D people would agree that a D just puts you more out of control of what you had before. Everything becomes more of a hassle, even the children have less control of their lives. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "Can Johnny come over? Not, this weekend he's at his Dad's. Johnny won't come to camp this year because his Mom has him this summer. So who gets the freedom? The parent has to guard the child twice as much and the child has less opportunities and freedoms.
Yes we have both changed since we were married, but I think we should grow towards, instead of away from each other. Still going to be a nice person, not sure about patient:-)
Phoenix, you seem to be in a battle of words and wills with W. You tell her what you think, she tells you what she thinks, they don't match up and you keep going around. Do you validate her feelings? Do you support that she has differing opinions? How can you show her that life without PS is not just a pasture of green grass but weeds will grow on that side of the fence too?
keeping you in my prayers PS, and remember "though I walk in the valley of shadow, I shall not fear..."
Well I've been trying to shake things up a bit with out being too nosy or a p****. Right now I'm not sure if I pushed it too far, but I guess we'll find out when I get home. I felt I had to call W on something that I suspected was wrong, either she will fess up later or deal out more lies. Some days I not sure if I care much any more, just want it to end. Usually about then one of the little sweet faces that call me Dad gives me will to go on.
We'll things are continuing on. I guess since I'm not going to "roll over" and cough up everything, things aren't going to go as she planned. Last night, because of W actions, we were late to something. When reprimanded about it by other people, W was in tears. She was too wrapped up in "redefining her life" activities, that she made us late for this family function. I was the last person picked up as the family left town for this function, therefore I had no responsibility in the late arrival and W had no one to blame. Perhaps this is the tough part, taking ownership of own problems.
Anyhow W surgery went well. She seems to be healing, however still has to sleep sitting up, so we have digressed into the WCW sleeping arrangement. We'll give it some time and see how this goes.
we have digressed into the WCW sleeping arrangement.
Very sorry to hear this. That's how it started with H also, said he was more comfortable on the couch due to injuries, that was Oct 2004, he's back to anything else he wants to do but I guess he hasn't recovered enough to return back to our bed. Just this morning I said we've wasted enough years living this way yet you won't budge. I said too many other things as well but I was on a roll...I did say I was stressing about stuff coming up but now he had plenty more ammunition against me to add to all his negative memories. Sometimes I just feel like a whale and have to blow. Guess I should 'take ownership' and do it on my own thread.
Hugs to you buddy.
No problem, vent away, it's not like we don't understand where your coming from. Some days it's just a matter of how long I can survive through this whole mess. However, it certainly isn't something I want to think about too much, zaps too much PMA.
Anyhow, feel free to sound off here, I do.
jeez, I think we need jackets for our club
I wonder if all this hold on is cooling whatever feelings I still harbor for H. He's acting like a jack@ss lately, all that anger and no where to use it but on me.
Patience has a sister, persistence, I think my patience's sister is sick or on leave.
I got this strong feeling that this might be all coming to a head real soon. W's emotions seem to be very strong and very driven. Don't know it for a fact but I think I'm fighting the big 40 timeline, MLC and some kind of third party. Some things that W would just let slide off, like conflicts with family members, seem to be bringing her to tears. I have never, not since high school, had a sitch where I could walk in a room and some one would be really visually upset at me without me even doing something. It's kind of really odd. I think the whole basis for this is the fact that I won't role over and play D, which puts me in the way of W having what she wants. W actions/moods are extremely unpredictable.
You would not know how many times I've wanted to say, "come on W, just grow up", but I don't. So, just another day in this DB world.
All this change is since surgery? is it drugs or meds coupled with emotional and physical pain? Is W back to work or total recovering at home? maybe this isn't about you at all, just how different she feels from what was 'normal'. I sense your frustration, but are you supporting her during this physical stress time?
Things seemed to be going in such a good direction before her surgery.
I was a little concerned before surgery if there was a little bit of drug dependency. I also know that now W is working her way off of post surgery drugs. There is also the issue of maybe W questions her decisions early in life, wonders if she made the right choices, questions why she made some bad choices (EA/PA). Perhaps if she feels she did it just to "follow her heart", that makes it at least not as bad, not fully responsible for her actions. You know, the only human plea. This way it doesn't have to make sense, you just have to be understanding. The kick is, those who have been there have told her it's not worth it.
Supporting? Sometimes she'll accept it, sometimes to stubborn to. Most would say I'm too accommodating. If you were to watch our day to day, you would probably say she pushes herself too much for her condition. But, I don't know her any other way. Her mom is a go getter and in a way she wants to be like her, yet be herself. I think W struggles with her identity.
Today again was a decent day. Extremely busy, but decent. Had to overcome some anxiety issues today. But W finally called and seem very decent on phone. I was able to pull it together and make it through the rest of the day.
Phoenix, just wanted to say hi, checking up on you here after eons away...
ah yes, the anxiety and the ups and downs that seem to go one for ever...
I hear ya...
Hey guy--I'm sorry it's rocky now. Hang in there.
Thanks for the positive vibes. The next few days should prove very interesting and challenging. It's good going into it knowing I have the support of my DB friends. Long story.
Please put me in your prayers, this could be a huge turning point in this R this weekend. I think I have seen positives this far, but we'll see if I'm right. There will be a bit of a chance to "shine" if I play it right. This could be very interesting.
PS, sending positive evibes your way and hope you play it right on the turns.
So far so good. Not perfect, but I feel I'm doing the right things.
praying for you PS))))))))))))))))
Got back in town. What a weekend. Sat with old friend this weekend, he just shook his head and couldn't believe all that I have been through. Between the R, family, kids, job.....he just couldn't believe what I am living through. We are both the same age, he's the one that looks older, but doesn't have half my headaches. Good for PMA, but didn't solve and R issues. Once again, one more child of D who doesn't want to see that happen to my kids. I think I see a recurring theme here.
Have really had to dig deep and read a lot of positive stuff this week to keep up the PMA. All though it was nice to have a break last weekend, the week has really been a challenge. Walking around waiting to see if I'm going to get the "hammer drop any given day is very nerve racking. For my own sanity I am just trying to shut it out and see it as one more day gained/past. Best thing for me right now seems to be to focus on just about anything else, most of the time it works.
Yeah, I feel the same! Just take it as it comes, and go with the flow for a little while. At least, that's what I'm doing right now.
Take care of yeself!
A lot of lessons/lectures and presentations have been right up the alley of where I need to be learning. Also W seems to be taking a more positive approach in regards to M. Not perfect, but definately a concerted effort. It's a nice change of pace.
\o/\o/\o/ Yay! I hope the positive approach continues. Keep learning Phoenix--you'll always be better for it.
I hope some day W will share with me what caused some of her shifts from totally negative to almost normal. Most days I am sitting there trying to figure out what I have done, for both sides of the coin. I guess the saying of "keep doing what's right and things will turn out alright", certainly stands true most days.
I sure wish some days I could video tape what I go through day to day with R. Why do I get this feeling that when this is all said and done W will have "rose colored" vision of how this all went. I guess as long as it all plays out the right way, it doesn't matter.
I think you're right. We, as the LBS's, could honestly keep a lot of resentment over what our spouses have done, not just to us, but to our children, our entire lives, our outlook on life, etc., but I continue to try to look at it positively.
If the D sitch had NOT happened, where would we be now. If things had continued the way they were and H had not said "enough" when he did, would it then have been too late to turn things around?
Yes, our spouses could have certainly handled things differently and they could have even done things to improve the M or communiated how unhappy they were earlier so that it never even got to the point of the D sitch, however, I don't know that we as the LBS's would have seen how serious it really was.
I know in my sitch, H probably did try at times to communicate his unhappiness, however, not obviously often enough over the YEARS that the problems/issues continued to build, but I wasn't ready to *hear* it maybe or even ready to *DO* anything about it.
Until I realized how serious it was, as sad as that is, would I have made the changes I have? Would we be where we are today? Would the *new* M we are rebuilding w/ our spouses be as wonderful as they have the potential to be?
I always wondered what was going on in H's mind as well. How from day to day, he could decide to stay and then turn around and be so very angry w/ me again and decide he could not stay no matter what.
I think our *mission* is partially to make sure we live on that fine line between remembering the lessons we've learned, continuing to work on ourselves and making ourselves happy, therefore our relationships happy, and not *dwelling* on the HUGE negatives of the sitch we went through.
Most days I am sitting there trying to figure out what I have done, for both sides of the coin.
hhmmm, reminds me of the saying "it's not about us". Take the good, and be thankful. I am happy for your improved sitch.
I sure wish some days I could video tape what I go through day to day with R. Why do I get this feeling that when this is all said and done W will have "rose colored" vision of how this all went.
I've felt this way too, but I find it helpful to remind myself that someday, H will account for his actions and fully understand the magnitude of how he's hurt me. By the same token, I will go through that experience as well.
We are all covered by the Atonement, and there is Someone who understands completely the depth of heartache and pain we are going through. For now, it's easier to leave that up to Him and move on with doing the best we can. I know you already know that...but it's good for me to be reminded too.
Very true, I know that if I get hung up in the negative approach to things, then everything goes further wrong. So I go with what I've been taught here and elsewhere and so far it's been the best approach. Although this M has not been picture perfect, I know in the future, those that really matter will be impressed with the work I have done. For now I take comfort in that.
I guess as long as it all plays out the right way, it doesn't matter.
I think it does matter, Phoenix! It matters, because if we didn't learn from negative actions we have made (which we LBS'ers are trying to do, so one would assume our WAS'ers should also put in the effort of learning from their mistakes), then there is the possibility of it being repeated. And, that would be really a waste of time and effort, IMHO. I feel, sometimes, that I am caught up in a continuous loop with my H, 'cause I don't think he learned anything (just wants to forget about it and move on) from his betrayal, and so there is the possibility he will do it again. He might white-knuckle it for awhile, but I do think there is the potential he will rationalize his way into another A. Time will tell in my sitch, as in yours, I guess.
Otherwise, I am really chuffed that things are moving in a more positive direction for you.
Early in life I had to learn to be quite a "fighter". The only thing I was fairly good at was certain sports, and even then I didn't fit the profile of the gifted athlete. So at each step of my life I have had to prove myself. As a result I guess this is no different.
This evening I sat with a fairly wise friend, he was the child of D and still holds some fairly strong resentment about it. Surprising as this might seem he has a lot of wisdom to offer. He is one of those types who can look at other peoples problems and "nail it", or read what they are and what they are about. I explained to him how things had progressed in the last 48 hours, then asked him what I had done wrong. His answer was nothing, more or less he said, I guess she's(W) got to figure out what is really important in her life and what she is going to do about it.
W always says how the kids are so important to her, however, those from the "been there, seen that" don't feel that she is doing them a lick of good right now. I think like WCW, my W doesn't want to lose. This is more important to her than who gets hurt. Every time she feels herself giving in to "what she should do", her fur goes up and her heals go in.
For my own sanity I'm doing what I know to be right, enjoying what I am doing, keeping my eyes open and appreciating today for what it is. If W goes down the dark path, that will be her choice and she will have to answer for it. What she doesn't understand is how much she relies on me on a day to day basis. The fact that I am not guaranteed to be around post D I think kind of through her. It real hard to work full time and be a full time Mom, without help.
Sorry I haven't posted much, but some days I feel like I've said it all and I don't have much to offer. Hopefully out there some one is winning this battle today.
Hey friend, I know when H starts acting like a normal person that I recognize it affects my detachment. My guess is that happens to you too, we get sucked back in and it's almost as hard as way back in the beginning. Silly isn't it? I try to keep my bubble in the middle, but it gets harder. Yes, my H said he would win this game. Funny part about that is we started playing this game (our M) and we were on the same team. Now he only plays for himself.
Chin up, buddy. Eyes on the horizon.
I like the e-mail that Michelle sent today, about forgiveness, I am really having to remind myself of that right now. Perhaps what has kept me on track so far is that I am trying to do the right thing and there is no failure in that. Even if things don't go as planned, I have no shame in what I have tried to accomplish.
Good luck on you trip to the "spa", hopefully others will step up and cover where H is not.
There are days when I can't think of much to say, then there are days when I just have to say something. I've noticed most of the time it has to do with if I got enough sleep. The last few days I have been focusing on that. It seems to keep my PMA a little higher, which is needed most days.
I think W is still trying to figure out some way to function as a family, without looking like she caved in. Unfortunately the latest is that W follows the same sleeping approach as Mr. WCW. But it's obvious that it's not working too well physically, so we'll see how long "that heal drags". So days if it wasn't so sad and so involved in the sitch, you would have to laugh at the stupid behavior that goes on in sitchs.
As I've said in a few other threads I have decided to figure out who I am, be my best me, then let W figure out how she is going to deal with it. No I'm not being stubborn, I'm just not going to over fix the problem. I've learn, with my years in industry, only create the best you can support. Anything else will produce problems and require more changes, it only a matter of time.
My thoughts are with you WCW. Hope the "spa" experience worked out.
Sorry about the sleeping arrangements, it sucks. Mr WCW used that same tactic after his injury to avoid 'making a decision'. After 3 years I would think the couch would get uncomfortable but he's not budging. The only thing laughable is that now I can dig back thru my threads and throw all your couch jokes back at you.
I think you are being stubborn Phoenix, and from one stubborn person to another, I say congratulations! I just think we need to be careful not to let stubborn and pride get too mixed together.
Chin up, eyes on the horizon.
This was sent to me, and I thought about our sitches:
"If our hearts are right before God, adversity will school us, help us overcome our carnal nature, and nurture the divine spark within us. Were it not for adversity, we would not know to “choose the better part.” Adversity helps us see where we need to repent, to bring into subjection baser instincts, to embrace righteousness and enjoy peace of conscience."
--Keith B. McMullin, "Be Prepared … Be Ye Strong from Henceforth", Ensign, Nov. 2005, 10
I have recently been thinking, Phoenix, that the difficult times in our lives are only as important and destructive as we allow it to be. Sometimes, we allow others' actions to rule our lives. And, when all is said and done, in a hundred years time, today won't matter much, except in when we have to face our Maker and explain our decisions to Him.
So, no advice, just some philosophical thoughts. Take care.
It's funny that you posted this today BeingMe, because I was thinking of just that phrase in regards to Phoenix's last comment to me about making changes that are best for us as opposed to changing for the sake of change: Choose the better part.
I think that it's entirely possible that the difficult times in our lives present opportunities for us to realize that there are choices out there waiting to be made that we never realized existed prior to our trials.
I read this passage in a book recently, and it really hit me:
C.S. Lewis believed that "we are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea."
And, I think that you are correct in what you said: "the difficult times in our lives are only as important and destructive as we allow it to be."
...more philosophical thinking.
Thanks for the philosophical "couch talk". Last week W was complaining on how hard it was to get over a cold when she wasn't sleeping well (on the couch). My first urge/response was a De-Da-DE. Next was a "here's your sign". However I used good DB approach and validated and stayed non judgmental. But I did have to go quickly in the other room.
Getting back to what you said. You are right, I do feel that this thing is far from over and some day I will look back at this and realize that it was a learning experience. I know some day the "tape will be rolled back", I'm glad I'll just be there as a viewer and won't have to answer for it.
For many years my stubbornness has paid off, I never thought it would be used as a force for good. However it's nice to know that it can be for something as noble as saving a M. As long as I have this "gift" and W does not loss her spiritual goals/gifts, I think we can make this work.
Gould luck.
Some days I really can't tell if I should be in piecing or some other forum. W gets so feed up with me that I won't just "get it" and leave. She figures all the work that should have been done, has already been done by her, it's just time for me to graciously accept her "edict" and move on (out) so that she can get on with her life. Of course my putting in all this effort is just putting more stress on the kids. (yeah right, all my fault).
So, should I be in piecing. Don't know, couldn't find the "dealing with an alien" section. Had to call her on a few things this evening, so things were not exactly pleasant for a little bit there, but she knows I'm still convicted. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would get to a point in my life where I have done the absolute best I could in a marriage, then still end up at a crossroads like this. I never thought that the sweet, quiet girl I met would turn into such a harsh, sour person. It tears me up to be treated like an outsider in my own home, by my W.
Sorry about the vent/rant. I guess I deserve the unloading I got tonight, I kind of got frustrated and had to push for an answer. But I do know that she was probably trying to push my buttons. Sometimes I wish I wasn't such a nice guy, I feel to often I'm used because of it. W knows I'm trying to be a better me, then works that to her advantage.
OK, rant finished.
Positives
I am getting so that I can focus better at work.
I make sure I am being the best Dad that I can be.
I have learned to stay busy so that I can't bring myself down.
Work continues on letting go. Tonight I will have to do that so that I can sleep and function tomorrow.
Phoenix--I'm so sorry you are having to suffer because of W's issues. It's ironic how we humans can think *we've* done everything required (when we really have no idea of the beams of our eyes) and expect others to do the hard work. Pretty crappy when you're the 'other' person. I have no doubt that you are often used for being a nice guy...I'm the same way.
What do you think would happen if one day you just said, "OK W, you can have what you want...here's your separation...?" (Not that I'm suggesting it, but I'm interested to see what you think.)
Keep focusing on the positives--you are walking the path you need to walk for whatever reason. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Vent all you want Phoenix--I hope you managed to get some sleep and that today goes as smoothly as possible.
It seems that since surgery your W has been more determined to shake things up. IMO, stay your ground, but if she is so blasted determined to split then help her pack her bags. Ask her which one she would like help with first. It's a big hand to play, but do you think she would do?
I'd be happy for your company in Hopefulness. I don't consider that a name for my M necessarily, but my life that I continue to strive for.
Thanks AUD and WCW for your words. It was so hard last night to just hold back on what was flowing through my mind. I ended up just stating the necessary stuff and letting the rest ride. With what I said, she should know I'm still committed to what I believe, but I'm still letting her take "ownership" of what is her problem.
Somehow I still think there is something there that she is not acknowledging or dealing with. There is just too much hard feelings and anger over what has been portrayed as "lack of love". Too much seems to set her off too easily.
Right now I would just be happy for a W who would even have half an inclination to work on this M. I'm hoping some plans later in the week might help, but right now I've learned to have faith, however don't let things get you too excited. Right now, even the best of opportunities would be viewed negatively by W.
I will make a showing over in Hopefullnes, even though I am definately not a poster child for that forum.
Thinking of ya, Phoenix!
Knock knock.
Sorry I've been fairly absent here, but I've been extremely busy lately with work. On the R side of life, there has been some decent improvements, however I'm trying to see if they are permanent. In the past, when I felt there was some light, W would not only flop back to old alien but emphasis it with some R discussion. So right now I'm trying to decide if change is for real, or is W just trying to throw me off balance again.
Some of my positives right now have to be being supportive, not focusing on R issues, then not letting my self get wrapped up in any negatives. I'm trying each day to see W positives and remember why I loved her in the first place. Why did we catch each other's eyes? What worked?
I have been focusing on my spiritual side. Trying to forgive and just worry about my own issues. Just realizing that I have no real effect on how or what W will become or do. I have made sure I am only letting those things I control for myself, decide where I will go. Well let's see how this all plays out.
So right now I'm trying to decide if change is for real, or is W just trying to throw me off balance again.
I *so* get that, so I think I'll follow my own advice here: just try to keep yourself steering straight through the storm. You'll know eventually if the changes are for real or just temporary. I hope they're real. I really do.
Some of my positives right now have to be being supportive, not focusing on R issues, then not letting my self get wrapped up in any negatives. I'm trying each day to see W positives and remember why I loved her in the first place. Why did we catch each other's eyes? What worked?
Excellent plan!
I have made sure I am only letting those things I control for myself, decide where I will go.
Bravo! Stay the course Phoenix.
Just wanted to wish all a happy Thanksgiving and to remind us that there is things to be thankful for. Take a few minutes to think about this and let it build your PMA.
Hi Phoenix! You seem to be back on track with DB'ing. Awesome! Hope you had a great Thanksgiving weekend. Yes, we all have so much for which to be thankful.
Hey BeingMe, it's good to see you back up on the boards again. Hopefully things are moving in a positive direction for you. I keep having to refocus on my PMA so that I won't let the negative get a strong hold.
Right now I find myself trying to figure out what more I can do to turn this thing around. Things seem to be slipping in a direction that I don't want to see things go, sort of W way of saying, "hey, I do have control over this sitch, you just haven't caught on yet". However, every time I feel negative creeping in, something positive pokes up. Never did I think I would ever have to work on my PMA on a day to day, hour to hour, basis in my life. I guess there is a good reason for me to be stubborn some days. Let me say this though, I'm only stubborn when I know I'm standing up for what is right. What an obnoxious trait.
Hang in there Phoenix...you'll never go wrong when you choose to stand for what's right. Even if it means living hour to hour. It might seem sometimes that your efforts are futile, but if you know they're the right efforts, they will have influence. Whether you know it or not.
And yet, how much control does your W really have, if she has to manipulate things? I think you give her way more power in your R than she actually has. Perhaps you may need to detach a bit more, and not care if the M ends or not. It's not in your control so you may as well not care. Ultimately, the final decision is God's.
I am still in 'emotionally detached' mode, and it helps me a lot. I think my H knows I don't care one way or the other if he stays or goes. In a way, it makes him more desperate to keep the M .... I think! Detaching also prevents a lot of hurt for me.
Just a thought!
Maybe I'm not getting this detachment thing right. Perhaps I do care too much. It's very hard for me to just shut out something I have cared about so much for so long. What I've have done is when the D word comes up I take the, "well if you have to go, you have your choice". But according to W, "that's not what needs to happen".
She says that she's not leaving the kids and she's not going to move them. So I guess she's stuck. Her approach is that she is trying to prove to me that I'm not really needed for this "family" to survive, she can handle it without me. However, I've let her know that I don't believe in D and that I'm not leaving. So where does that leave W? Fence-sitting.
Let's see, what words of non-DB recommendations have I received,
Tell W to leave.
Take back my _____. Quit being "whipped".
Buy her some flowers once in a while.
Buy her a massage for Christmas. (yeah, I about lost it on that one also)
Isn't it amazing that the people that we use to have a lot to do with before, who have figured out what is going on, don't socialize much with us any more. Both the guys and the girls have lost patience with W. Those who have been down the path, say, "don't do it". Those who have been M, can't figure out why. All of them are, she needs to figure this out and "get off the pot".
Positives,
W share info about activities more.
I trying to be more social with old friends. Some are starting to see the changes.
W is not trying to fill her time with "anything and everything".
PS is learning to work with what I can and don't let the rest bring me down.
I am starting to get more productive at work again.
Maybe I'm not great at dropping the rope, but at least I haven't lit it and dropped it. (There are days).
Pray, re-focus and sleep. My prescription for success.
Sounds like a stalemate. Hmm, where have I seen that before?
Is W still sleeping on the couch? Yes? then change YOUR bedroom, make it you. Do a makeover if you can or want, but change at least a few things. Move her stuff out of the dresser and the closet into cardboard boxes.
Idunno, it's just me I guess, but I think you really need to rattle her cage, shake things up, and honestly make changes for yourself. Nothing out of spite or vengence, but a taste of how her life would be without PS doing everything for her. Don't worry and wonder if she is watching, she can eat your dust or move forward with you if she desires.
disclaimer - do as I say and not as I do.
Hi Phoenix! I have been getting some scriptural thoughts via email, and here is one that I think applies to our sitches:
"Sometime in the eternities to come, we will see that our trials were calculated to cause us to turn to our Heavenly Father for strength and support. Any affliction or suffering we are called upon to bear may be directed to give us experience, refinement, and perfection."
--Delbert L. Stapley, "The Blessings of Righteous Obedience", Ensign, Nov. 1977
I am counting on the above!
Now, if I can just be more obedient to the Word, I may actually have a shot at perfection.
That's what I keep telling myself, let's see if I can make it. I know I am being a better spiritual anchor for my kids these days, at least the ones who want to listen. Fortunately I can sit and listen to uplifting stuff while at work. As it probably should be I am stepping back, focusing on my own development and letting W solve her own problems. W interaction today has been all over the map, some days I worry about her. Some days I wait to see her head turn 360 degrees other days I think the alien might have finally left. Well almost.
...it's just me I guess, but I think you really need to rattle her cage, shake things up, and honestly make changes for yourself.
PS,
I agree with WCW here, but I would take a different tact. I would shake things up a bit, but use your GAL activities to do so. Go out, all dressed up, clean-shaven, smellin' sweet, lookin' hot, and go have dinner with a friend...or go to a movie...or something...anything! Don't let W know where you are going, just let her know you have "plans with friends"...and then stroll in much later than you normally would...say 11ish. Be smiling, whistling...otherwise looking like you are on the top of the world when you get home; like you just had the most amazing date!
Of course you're not really going on a date, but you are refocusing yourself outside of the M and off W. Let her wonder a bit. I think she's cake-eating right a little, so it probably wouldn't hurt to take back some time for yourself...just for you!
M
Very good point. I'll have to talk up a willing "accomplish" and make some plans. W seems to be able to fill her time and do what ever she wants, I guess a little more fair play is due. What amazes me is how some of our friends, some who you would think would "understand" W position, have grown weary of her MLC. Some are, "Why is W doing this?, What does she think D17 is going to learn from this?". It takes all my will power to just shrug and say, "Well I guess she has to make her own choices, good or bad".
I guess I'll have to get busy and make some plans. There's some good movies out there I been wanting to see.
Bumping ya up, my friend!
^^^
Thanks for the bump. Things have been very busy lately, end of year push, mixed with the Christmas season. Part of my detach modes sometimes includes not focusing on posting all the time, using a little faith and trying to discipline to follow correct DB approach. This phrase of, "this too shall pass", means a lot to me also right now.
As we were sitting last night doing something with the family, S11 was kind of acting up. The thought that came to mind was how W actions have soured the atmosphere and attitude in the house. It is true how the W sets the spiritual level in the house, either for good or for bad.
Was doing something with my S15 on the weekend and something broke, which included a loud bang, so all came running. When we figured out what had happened and what had broken, W took such a "wounded" (why does this always happen to me) attitude. All I could think was, "Who's going to have to get the part, tear this thing apart and put it back together in this freezing cold". You know darn well it wasn't going to be W, but you would have thought so.
So, did I go out with friends this weekend? No, I kept very busy, but a little vague of where and when. What amazes me is that even though I was taught by word and action, how to treat a wife properly growing up, I find myself having to do opposite to that to keep a wife. Sometimes she will thank me for doing something for her, but generally, most of the good stuff I do just seems to tick her off. I guess she has a paint brush in her hand with the color she wants to paint me as, but she's getting tired of standing there holding the brush with nothing to do.
Right now my "hunch" says to stick it out, roll with the punches. So that is what I am doing. I figure as long as I am satisfied with what I am doing, if she straightens out or leaves, I have done my best. I suspect within the next year there will be a shift in factors in the equation, which I think will lead to a better outcome. Let's hope so.
W actions have soured the atmosphere and attitude in the house
W took such a "wounded" (why does this always happen to me) attitude
Eyore is only cute in the movies, not to live with. Get her one of those bouncing Tigger animals. I love this time of year when the shelves are full of those bouncing talking things. It's such a blast to hit the start on all of them and see the whole shelf wiggling and bouncing!
Is W still on the couch?
Keep rolling, eyes on the horizon.
Pretty much, she is still on the couch. However, there are a few surprise visits. Not sure why, not sure what I do to "provoke" them. Almost weird, but nice, not sure what to think or do. Haven't been given an explanation. Not sure if there is a logical reason other than convenience. However, some times there is still decent attitude following it.
So I'm just continuing in a positive approach, then letting her figure out how she will progress. I really wish I could wake up out of this scary dream. A good old "Saturday Morning" would be great about right now.
I loved the animal in the toy store idea. That theme has a story to it, but we won't cover that here. Anyhow it put a smirk on my face.
Hope your feeling better.
And another fine Saturday comes to a close. So far it has been fairly nice today. You would think it was September here today. Had the last of the Christmas Nativity today. All went well and I was called in last minute to work the show. Did a great job, W took notice, D17 was jealous. In the end, she got over her vocal diva thing and perhaps realized that sometimes you don't have to be on the stage to be important to the show. During the whole blow out W finally got to see that perhaps D17 was "working her", against me, so that she could get her way. D17 knows that if she throws out something negative about me, W will automatically buy into it.
Well I discussed it with W after the fact, relayed what I had done and I think she realized D17 had played her. I think, some days W is starting to figure this whole thing out. She wants both sides "of the coin", but doesn't see why she has to pay the price. She thinks that if it's meant to be, it should be this hard. How ever, people that she thought had it so easy, she is finding out they have some of the same struggles. I think W is also growing up a bit and realizes that D17 might not be around to side with her all her life. W has been trying to live/re-live through our daughter what she felt she has missed out in her life. We all must learn I guess.
I think the rest of the kids have felt a bit "second string". I do try to give them what I can, but I am only one parent, and they need both of us. Perhaps the comments from W's parents will sink in and realize that it's not just what I want, but what is needed for the whole family.
Anyhow, positives. Had a good show. Lot's of compliments. Asked to do it in the future. Got to show W and D17 where some of my talents lie, even though it might not be the same as their's, it's needed to produce the final project.
Good for you Mr BehindtheScenes Gadget Man! You showed them that the pit crew and the support team is important or the show won't go on! Would it be too much that W and D see how that pertains to real life too?
How about some special time with the other kids? do you suppose anyone strings popcorn anymore? don't forget the hot chocolate!
When you work in a technical field quite often you family and friends have no idea what it is you actually know. Even when I have walk my family around something I have created, I see that it slides right past their comprehension and they have no appreciation for it. When Mr. BTSGM stepped up and was recognized, I think it kind of POd D17 and W. Although I think W kind of remembers back in the day when I did this professionally.
Before this little "tiff", I suspected that D17 was just trying to please W and live up to W high vision of her. Also D17 likes people to fuss over her. (WOA) W however, has been trying to redefine her life (MLC) and appear that she is making big changes, redefining who she is so that if she goes WAW everyone "important" knows who she is. But the catch is she relies on me too much to facilitate her "redefining" activities. So eventually, if she's honest, they know that I'm still in the picture. Of course being well trained and experienced in the technical side of what she is trying to accomplish makes it a "why doesn't PS get more involved in what you are doing?" "Why doesn't PS do ____ for us?"
Of course if they approach me directly, I don't turn them down, I share my talents. So I think, especially D17 didn't like the fact that she did not have full monopoly of W and her MLC, along with the "spotlight". Now here's the funny part, after it all blew by the first night, neither one seem to mind too much. We'll see if they decide to do it again next year. Perhaps W decided that she found something she could be proud of me about.
In fact W has been better, more positive to me since then, not sure why. Perhaps she is seeing it as me being more supportive of her activities. I feel that as a couple I should try to do what I can with her if it's a common interest.
Well let's see how things play out.
I feel that as a couple I should try to do what I can with her if it's a common interest.
Absolutely agree with you! Keep that up! That's one thing I love about my H, is that he is very technical and can sort out any computer, home electrical equipment, cars, and so forth, in a jiffy. He is good at carpentry, painting, fixing gutters, lighting, installing floors. I tell (and told him in the past) him constantly that I appreciate it, but during his MLC, he said I never appreciated him, or told him what a good job he does. WTH!!!! He, on the other hand, rarely compliments me on anything, or am I in MLC and don't hear him! Eek!
Also D17 likes people to fuss over her.
Perfectly normal behaviour for a teen, but not so much a grown woman of 5 children.
Well let's see how things play out.
Watch and wait .... probably the best way to go for now.
Take care!
Hey Mr. BTSGM, maybe your women need to see you shine a little bit more--good for them to realize you're not just the schmo along for the ride. Can't hurt for them to be reminded you have value too.
I don't think that W had such a terrible home environment when she was young. She gets along fine with her parents, about as good as any of us. However she seems to want to relive her youth (or at least what she wanted her youth to be) through her daughter/kids. D17 appreciates being her center of attention, however college does come soon and I suspect a move for D17 is inevitable.
I believe the next year or so will determine a lot. So far I see some positive moves, but will W make the jump? Time will tell.
Decided last night that I would just "lay out a thought" that I felt was important to say. In a way it was saying, yes I do love you and that I still want to be around you. I did not try to be clingy, just said my short piece and left it as that. W did not answer, but I could see the point hit home. Things have sloooowly been getting better and the "comment" did not cause any back pedaling. It might be very slow, but I think there might be some change a foot. Hopefully, I'm not wrong.
I hope all are doing well. Hopefully this new year coming up will be a change for the best for everyone. Perhaps, what's working best for me right now is that I am occasionally saying what I think, but I am also showing that either way it goes, I will deal with it. Of course daily prayer and study help. Every day I still look at what I am doing and see how I measure up both spiritually and DB wise. Some things are very well ingrained. I think it has made a better me.
Sounds like a step in the right direction, Phoenix. I hope it goes up from there. Do you ever say anything during testimony, about family and how you feel about her? The way some H's express themselves at that time, often brings tears to my eyes, and I wish that my H could say the same, but it's just not him, I guess. Sometimes (certainly, in my case), a woman just wants affirmation/validation that her man actually gets her. When the C asked my H why he married me, and why he loved me, all he could say was that I was fun. Couldn't even express his admiration for my being a good mom, or anything like that. I found that more hurtful in some ways then his A. He seemed to find more things wrong with me, than was right with me. While I came up with a list of more than the 10 things the C requested.
I don't know if this helps you, but I think you are the type who does try and 'get' your W. Just make sure she knows it. I am glad you are finding a way to say what you think is important. Those things are what we women remember, in the end .... what tilts the sitch favourably toward our H's.
Any thoughts on the upcoming Christmas season? Doing anything exciting?
Swinging thru and glad to see your swing is swinging to the positive again. Keep pushing the swing higher.
I like BeingMe's idea about expressing all the wonderful reasons you love your W. Then leave it alone to sink in.
Every once in a while I hear H telling someone something good about me but he won't tell me directly. The only thing I hear straight from him to me is still negative. Cheeseless tunnel, so I don't go there but it would be very nice to hear it from H(orses) mouth.
Well the Christmas thing went fairly well. W seems to be doing OK, showing positive leanings, but still trying to keep a safe buffer. I did something a little wild for the family and W, it was nice hearing W relate positive reports of it to her family. What I did was something she could be proud of and something I think will be a topic of discussion for the holidays.
Bottom line though, I wanted W to have something she could be proud of me about, something that would appear to bring things back into order.
She still, however, is dragging her feet in regards to the sleeping arrangements. W sure is stubborn. I said my piece and I have left it like that for a while. She knows where I stand, but I'm not going to push her. I want her to know that any change she "chooses to make" is all hers', not pressure from me or anyone else. She needs to know that all her choices belong to her, I didn't force anything on her.
I know what you mean about the wife being stubborn,mine is making me crazy.
It's one day things seem good like she wants to work things out and then the next day seems more cold and distant.
She knows how I feel and what I want,she knows how much our kids want and need to see mom and dad back together and loving each other again.
But she has filed D,hasn't backed down from that yet,I'm trying to give her space,not push,and doing allot of praying.
She acts like things are cool with her but I know she has prescriptions for anxity,depression and one to help her sleep,so maybe she is having a hard time dealing with what she is doing to our marriage and our family.
I'm waiting to see what the new year will bring, word out is that things will happen then, but I guess we'll see. My focus right now is to not let that wear down on me. If it does, it does, I will move on with what's left with my life and go for a clean start. W thinks we should all just stay here and play along with her "game". I guess she didn't know that I was never one to stay around after things went south. My approach is go at it full bore when your "on the field", play your game out there and then you will have nothing to rehearse and re-hash latter. I will not let it wear me down in the future, there is nothing to be gained there.
My wife also has this fantasy that D can go all nice and smooth and me and the kids will be just fine and she can go explore and find what ever she things she is missing in her life and we will all live happily ever after,WAKE UP!
There is no such thing as a good D,the kids are already hurting with us being seperated and they both believe,as do I that we will get this figured out,mom will quit acting like she is someone we don't know and come back to reality.
Time and patience,it's hard but don't have allot of other options at this point.
Phoenix, what is the word that is out? D? are you hearing that from friends? Remember don't believe what you hear, only what you know.
I was never one to stay around after things went south.
I don't see that statement as true. You've stayed around all this time already! You've been strong as a rock and steady as a gymnast on a balance beam! If it comes down to W taking the next step then it is still your choice if you are ready to go along with it. Sure can't say I'd blame you for saying let's just get it over with. You've been doing your best for so long already, just stay focused on what YOU want. What you focus on expands.
(((Phoenix))) All the best for what is best for 2008.
I guess what I was saying wasn't too clear. I do work hard at trying to make things work, almost to a flaw. But I am not know for going back to old relationships. Never in my life did I ever make up with old GFs, I usually figured once they had made their choice to leave, it was done. Now will I do this now. Who knows. This time there is a lot more involved.
If there is a sign that W is going to work hard to rebuild our R, I would try too. Since there is so much more involved and invested here, of course I would hang tough. Perhaps the best way to put it is that I live like I compete in sports, I play all out when I'm "in the game", that way I don't have to second guess and relive what could have been later. I play my best.
Why have I let this go on so long? I really do love my W and kids. Is the "hammer" going to drop in the new year? I will stay positive, work hard, then see what happens. Right now having and showing trust for W is the tough part. Every day I wake up and wish that this nightmare would be over and W and I would be sitting on the deck of a cruise ship, holding hands and looking in each others eyes. No such luck though.
Thanks for all the positives. Happy New Years.