Hummmm........locked up. Well, ok, I am going to come to "piecing". I hope I am ready for this. I was in Newcomers and you can find my thread there.
A lot has been going on in my life....in some areas.....spiritual areas, and my job, etc. As far as my M...well, I think I can say we are back to where our "normal" was before I hit MLC or whatever it was that happen to me. As you know, if you have followed my stitch, my H and I have not been sexually intimate for many years. It is a long story so you would need to go back and catch up to understand. Anyway, we have not returned to being sexually active, but there is always hope. That hope lies within myself. No, I take that back...it lies within God. Because I don't think I will ever get that desire for my H without God putting it in me. I have prayed, begged, pleaded....to God over the years to have that feeling for my H. However, I just did not want to have sex with H. He always thought I was frigid. I decided something was wrong with me. We went so long without ML that I thought he could not perform any more. So, I didn't talk about it and I didn't encourage it. Anyway, I got involved in playing games on line and "chatting" with others and that led to other chat rooms and that led to OM. And that led to trouble! I had all the signs of a MLC...although I was too old for a MLC! Guess my brain did not know that! I would have walked away form my H and my M if I had had the finances to support myself apart from his help. I knew he would not move out and would not help me. My life was so miserable that I thought I was going to have a stroke or a heart attack from the stress....or give him one. The worst part of this entire mess is the fact that my grown D and maybe my GS found the IM that I was sending the OM before my H discovered the messages. Can you even begin to imagine how humiliating that is? Well, it is either get your heart right with God and straighten up your life....or run away. My elderly mom lives nearby and depends on me, plus my other children and GC live here. So, I really didn't want to run away....although I did feel like it some days. So, I had some serious decisions to make. Fist, I had to decide who (which man) I was going to spend my life with....my H or the OM. I chose my H. Secondly, I had to withdraw from the OM. But, I was so weak and really didn't know how....no...I did know, but I did not WANT to withdraw from him. But, that is where wise experienced people on this board helped me. They were so brutely honest with me that it woke me up! Then they were so encouraging to me and helped me through some mighty rough spots.
My life has done a lot of turn abouts over the past couple of months. As I have said befoe, I feel as though I have been through a "crash course", but it has been worth it.
I don't want to give the impression that I am healed or we have made it to the end or anything like that. We are back to where we were....but that is not good enough, because that, I think, is why I got into the condition that I was in to start with. You may disagree and are welcome to express that to me. But, I think if I had been satisfied and happy with myself and my MR, I would not have gone "looking" and "flirting" with danger (OM). Although I never had a PA, I did have an EA and had the embarrasing cybersex. (That is not easy to admit.) You see, I became someone I did not even recognize! How could I expect my own family to know what the heck was going on with me?
My poor H did all the "wrong" things at first. It was so unlike him to act the way he did. He would snoop, and spy. He would follow me around the house, watch every move I made.....everything that drove me crazy! He had always given me plenty of privacy and space....but I betrayed his trust!
I was ready to walk out the door...with or without the finances because I could not stand him one more minute! I told him to back away and now! Leave me alone and give me plenty of space! He did and quickly. That is what saved our marriage. Although, he used "tough love", and by that I mean that he told me what he would not tollerate under his roof. But you know, if you really want to do something....you will find a way and a time. So, it was still up to me to make that decision....he could not MAKE me do it! You cannot control another person. Everytime he tried to control me....I would rebel that much more.
So, here I am in "piecing" and hope I will continue to hear from my best friends and make some new ones.
Welcome, Sandi. I think you're incredibly strong. We all do things that are out of character or seem wrong, but I honestly believe that we're all doing the best we can at any given moment given our resources and who we are at the time. It's what's kept me from walking away from my H with his deep EA.
Piecing is tough, I won't lie. Are you guys in MC? If not, any chance you could do so? You and your H both need someone to help facilitate these conversations. It's a tricky time after reconciling...and I credit our MC for being a neutral advocate.
Are you in IC? If not, go, if only to figure out the low desire thing. I've had the same problem...and for me at least, it's the courting and the intense feelings of the new and different and hopeful that I like. My H is like vanilla...I like vanilla, but sometimes something less predictable and safe is what I want. And also, for me at least, a huge part of my problems with wanting to be intimate with my H was because the R was bad...I didn't feel heard, didn't get any kind of positive touch except in pursuit of sex, felt like he made me the scapegoat for everything. Voicing my feelings and taking control of my own life and responsibility for speaking up has helped in the sex department a lot. It's not perfect...but there's progress.
Welcome, and good luck.
SD
Thank you for responding. I think you may be the first one to talk to me that is kind of in the same boat about the lack of desire for the H. Most of the ones I have talked with are crazy in love with H and wants to ML, etc.
I have been once to a C when I first started having the on-line contact with OM. However, she did not see anything wrong with it and blamed my H for his lack of attention to the MR, etc. He did not like that one bit and so I did not go back. He will not consider going to C. So, it is either work it out ourselves (mostly me, since he doesn't feel that he has really done anything that bad.) or read books. That is why this bb has about saved my life.
Don't misunderstand my H. He is a good person. He is gentle and kind. But our R over the past 20 years just steadily declined and I got so lonely. I had not had hormones for many years after my hysterectomy. (I did at first, but then they finally took me off them...said they weren't doing anything.) I don't know if I just didn't have any drive or if it was my other health issues, but I felt like I kind of died inside. I wasn't feeling anything. Then I went to see a new doctor and she put me on hormones and all of a sudden, it was like my body woke up! About the same time is when I had slipped in the on-line communicating with OM. I was kind of excited to find out that I was a normal female instead of being frigid...but I was also eat up in guilt, b/c I knew I shouldn't be doing what I was doing. When H found out and it all hit the fan, it pushed my EA with OM into high gear. I think it would have all fizzled out if H had not discovered the messages. But, then after he did and confronted me about it, I turned to the OM for emotional support and the EA intensified. Then the next thing I knew, I was calling him on the phone....and one thing led to another until we were planning on meeting this past summer for a PA. That did not happen, thank God, but it was well on its way when I found this board.
I need a lot of encouragement about my feelings....or rather my lack of desire. I know I love my H, but it is more like loving a brother right now. I don't want to hurt him and that was the only reason (and not having the money) that stopped me from being a WAW. However, I feel like I could go the rest of my life without having sex with him. I do want to have sex....and would have had sex (I think) with OM. How can I explain that I think I could have had sex with OM that I had never been with before....easier than I can my H? That makes no sense to me.
Maybe I should have went over to the sex starved forum...but I felt like I should come here, b/c it just isn't about sex.
Please give me your thoughts anytime. It would be appreciated.
Thank you for replying to my thread Sandi. I agree our stories are very similar, so it looks like we will be piecing together as WAW. Its good to see i'm not the only one here
Hi everyone,
It is Sunday morning and I am waiting to go to Sunday School...I am a teacher. That was one of the things that really bothered me when I was messed up and doing things I shouldn't. I found some reason to miss church on Sundays b/c I knew I should not be standing up before a class while I was living like I was. In the process....I lost my class. However, I am back where I should be and I am trying to re-build my class. I was also given a position to work with the teens on Wednesday nights. That is something I have not done in years! Now, I have more motivation than ever to keep my life clear of anything that is not appropriate for a wife, mother, or teacher. I am thankful the our Lord forgives....and much faster than humans. He cleans us up and puts us back to work. That is where I am the happiest...working for Him.
As I have told some others, I still have that old temptation to come calling (regarding the OM) but I am getting stronger and I am determined not to give in. I won't be blind-sided this time to what is happening, whereas before....I just gave way to the fleshly desires not wanting to think about the results and all that may be affected by me decisions.
For you who are Believers, I hope you will pray that my grown D and my GS will be able to see me again through eyes of respect. You see, I was their teacher, also, in Church down through the years. So, I can only guess what they must think of me now. I know they love me, but still, I have disappointed them b/c they saw me as somebody very strong in the Christian faith. I would have been the last person they would ever have thought about getting involved in cybersex.
I still cringe when I use that word! But, it happened and I am paying the price. I just want to say for the LBS or even the WAW that perhaps got involved in this stuff and you wonder why the consequenses are not important at the time you are doing it...I think, with me, I was in such a fog that I just thought that if it got bad enough that I would run away with the OM. How stupid is that? I really thought he loved me and I was living in "the grass is greener" limbo state. I couldn't deal with reality and did not want to face the truth of what I was doing to everyone around me. I wanted to believe he (OM) truely loved me. To wake up to the fact that I probably was not the "only one" he was dangling along at the same time.....that was hard. I really thought my case was different.
Anyway, if I can ever help anyone, I will do my best. Maybe the wrong I did will be able to be put to good use somehow. I hope you all have a good day. It is going to be beautiful....I have decided that!
BTW, I am going to try to make some goals for myself and my MR this week. Hope to be able to report that to you soon.
Sweetie....forgive yourself.
Humans are the only "animal" (for lack of a better word) that punishes themselves over and over and over again for the same wrongdoing. Every time you think of it and feel bad, you're punishing yourself again.
God's already forgiven you...He did it before you even sinned. God understands what we sometimes don't: we are imperfect, human, and we WILL screw up.
You are living in the past, and that makes no sense because there's nothing you can do to change your past. Right here, right now is the only thing you have control over. Stop punishing yourself...let go. And don't even feel bad because of the temptation--you created a habit, and habits are hard to break.
Write a love letter to yourself. Write down all the good and wonderful things about you, then read it over and over again. Create a daily affirmation replacing your old thinking (I'm a bad, horrid, unworthy person b/c of OM) with new thinking (something like, I am strong, valuable, worthy and wonderful. I forgive myself like God forgives me.)
But...sweetie...you've got to stop beating yourself up. You can't move forward until you let go of the past and start being more gentle with yourself.
Now...this is just *me*...but I kind of think you might be a fantastic example to your D and GS *because* you had this experience...and you're going to show them how to overcome it and accept God's grace and compassion. You're teaching them that screwing up is not the end of the world, it's not a death sentence, it's just one of those things we do. To me, that's real Christianity. All of those people you see who project a "Godly" image...well, they've got their own ghosts too.
And remember...when Jesus was on earth, WHO was he hanging out with? WHO did he demonstrate ultimate compassion for? People like Mary Magdalene, drug addicts, the sick, the homeless...not the big whigs in the church, not the ones who thought they'd already "arrived".
So, write that letter to yourself, and FORGIVE.
SD
Okay, thanks for those words of encouragement. I will try to do as you suggested.
Hi Everyone,
Not a lot to tell, but I'm on here every night reading and throwing around my two cents worth. It is still what keeps me "straight". My H and I are .....well, the only way I know how to describe it is to say we are back to normal for us. It isn't where I want us to end up, but for right now, it is okay. I still do not have sexual desires for him, but maybe someday. I have tried to decide within my own heart that if we never sleep together again, I will live for the Lord and find happiness in Him. But, even though I think I am still the oldest person on here, I don't feel that old and I still have the dream that my H and I can have a R just like the younger ones do. I've not given up on our MR.....and I have not "settled"...don't mean it to sound as though I have. I just mean that if it never led to an active sex life between us....I could live with it. I would like for us to be closer in other ways.....you know...actually have intimate conversations about "feelings", etc., but he hasn't in 41 years, so I don't know why I expect him to now. He's never been one for "meaningful conversation" that all the good books about MR talk about.
He has continued to stay "backed away" as I asked him to do. I, however, am finding it very difficult to draw closer to him and I know he is waiting on me to make the first move....the second move....the third, and so on. It bothers me that I can't seem to do that. I don't know what is the matter with me. The same thing that has been the matter for years, I suppose. But, I still pray that it (whatever "it" is) will change in me. Sometimes, I almost envy these wives that talk about how much in love they are with their H and don't want to loose them. I want to feel that way about mine. I know I love him, but I don't feel "in love" with him. You know.....like "they" (the WAS) all say! I haven't felt that way in many, many years. I think that is one of the reasons I fell in the on-line mess. But, anyway, I know it was wrong and I'm determined to live right....with or without the "in love" feelings. I have grown children and one grown grandchild and two little grandchildren. So, I have to think about them. When I was in my "fog".....I couldn't think about anything logically....just what I wanted. And, what I wanted was to be in love and to feel that wonderful feeling and to actually experience what it was like to have sex with someone you desired. I keep praying that someday, it will be my H.
Oh.....gee....didn't mean for that to sound like a pity party. Sorry about that. I'm not really feeling that way....just have a hard time expressing myself sometimes.
I have not made contact with the OM since I broke it off....I told you all about that. I have been tempted a few times, but I can come on here and it usually passes soon. I know that just b/c one determines within their heart to do something doesn't mean the temptation won't come from time to time....so I deal with it.
Well, my little granddaughter is here to spend the night.....that is what families are all about...right? She is precious and worth my attention, so I'm off to spend time with her. Hope you all have a good night and don't give up. I'm not going to give up, either!
Hi Sandy,
Just read some of your thread. Great you're trying to work it out with your DH.
Have you ever heard of light your fire by Dr. Ellen Kreidman? I heard several people talk about this on the boards. You can check her website lightyourfire.com. Not sure if it will help but you can always try!!!
I'm kind of curious how she works aswell but not able to in my sitch...(yet). Will you let me know if you try her methods?
Hi, thanks for responding. I was wonderfing if something had happen....nobdy was talking to me. Anyway, I think I heard about something similar to that several years ago. I will check it out.
Talk later.
Hi Sandi,
I just read your post on another thread and wanted to respond to you here. You mentioned that when you were in your A, you worked really hard for OM's approval...weight, appearance, lotions/potions, etc.
Hon, if that made you feel good, how about doing those things for yourself? It seems to me that regardless of what side of the tracks you're coming from (WAS/LBS), the GAL stuff is pretty important. Do it for YOU, no one else.
I've only had time to skim your thread right now, and I realize everything seems stuck in the same old rut it's been in for a long time. That's beyond overwhelming. It's pretty important to figure out what your "cheeseless tunnels" are and start reacting/doing things completely differently than before.
One last thing. I know it's really hard for you to give 110% to your M when you really don't feel passion for your H. I think that it is possible to spark those feelings again, but it goes back to doing things differently. Both Michele and Dr. Laura (Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands) advise us to 'act as if' and the feelings will follow the actions. Are there things you've been holding back that you can 'act' on now? Are you willing to give it time and experiment with it?
I'm sorry you feel like you're not getting much response here...I think the piecing threads tend to move a lot slower than the newcomers threads. Sorry I didn't check on you sooner. I admire you for making the choice to work on your M. I really do.
Sandi,
I would like to echo Aud in the sense that you are in the slow churning current of the boards in "Piecing". I had read your thread and didnt respond because I really had very little of worth to give. Sometimes I forget that something is better than nothing just so someone understands that there is someone out there who does care....I do care and "I" do relate with much of you wrote.
You are right! I stopped excersing, dieting, the lotions & potions stopped....and you know the rest. Why is that? imLin said that it was b/c I did not feel that I had to "win" anyone......I had my H. I think a lot of that is true. But, I wish I was not that way. I wish I could feel toward my H the same as I felt toward the OM when I was trying to look so hot for him. BTW...I loved to hear OM tell me how "hot" I looked and I worked my ....you know what off.....to hear him say that. My H is good to compliment me...but for some reason, it just doesn't seem the same. God, that makes me sound awful!!!
That doesnt make you sound awful at all...it makes you sound truthful...a lot of this rings true with me. My W most likely shares these same feeling that you do. When she was having her "EA/PA-she will never uncover the truth" she was losing weight, looking "hot" and cared deeply about her appearance. Now she is blaming "M" on her weight gain because we all know that marriage makes a person fat
Well, I'm in "piecing" and I need a lot of encouragement from you all. Please don't shut me out since I'm from the other side of the fence. I have sent several posts out that never got any response and I don't know if I was too harsh sounding or if it is b/c I was almost a WAW and people resent me or just don't talk to me b/c it reminds them of their pain.
I sure hope no one is shutting you out and honestly I have roamed these boards for a while and have never seen such a thing. Especially me, for I had a "EA" myself when I doubted that my W was serious of trying again so I understand a lot of what you are saying. and as far as reminding anyone of the pain, that is why these boards exist...is too swim frelly through the pain without the harshness of the outside world..I think in your sitch your dynamic must be especially difficult when you are seen by the outside world (being a christian school teacher) as not having these feelings or shouldn't. Odd that society places people in boxes and tags them for a later date without at least looking whats inside.
Oh well, like I said.....punch me out if you feel like it. I just needed to talk tonight. If you do have any advice for me...I would appreciate it.
I am not one to throw 2 x 4's or punch anyone out...I am at a point in my morning where my coffee is not nearly as strong as it should be so most likely none of this makes any sense and certainly no words of advice are flowing....except one...
"be patient in all reagrds of your life and on the boards" Responses will happen and I for one will certainly throw something down here from time to time until I become a nuisance.
Aud is right(and usually is) GAL is the way to clarity!!! I just wish I would soak that message up as well. This is a perfect time for experimentation....YOU have nothing to lose
I am going to rummage up a stronger cup of coffee and maybe jot something down that is of more worth but anyway....WELCOME!!!! YOU are needed and cared about in this swirlling thread...peace
Sandi,
I really appreciate you being here. I think it's enlightening to learn things from the WAS perspective. I have a lot of respect for the WAS who decides they truly want to work on themselves and their marriage... especially in your case where it's a long-term marriage to a decent guy.
I have to agree with the other posts about looking great (and sexy!) even if your husband isn't giving compliments and expressing passion. Sometimes just feeling like you look sexy may help you feel sexier... kind of like the think it, and it becomes it. Spend some time thoughout the day imaging great sex with your husband then plan to go out to dinner with him that evening, have a little wine or a martini, wear a dress, maybe even thigh-high hose and garters... and no underware! Then, when you are at the resturaunt whisper to him that you aren't wearing any underware.... then talk about sex, ask him to describe, in detail, what he likes. Then share with him details of what you like.
This is your husband, and you ARE a good person... it's okay to be a sexually "wild" with your husband. It will bring you closer.
Thanks to all of you for you responses. I was beginning to think nobody was going to talk to me anymore. But, you all came to me just in time.
I don't mean to blame anything I am about to say on "age", but it is just to illustate my frustation about trying to put "life" back into the MR and to feel like working toward being sexy, etc. Years ago, I could get all worked up and excited and determined about doing all these things you all have suggested....and it did work! After I got chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia it is so hard to have the energy to "make" myself do something that my heart isn't 100% into. It also frustrates me to know that I had that desire to work hard at looking sexy for the OM, but can't muster up the desire for my H. I want it to come naturally...the desire, that is....but it doesn't, so it means I have to "work" at it. (If all that makes sense!) Maybe that is why people say we get set in our ways....what they really mean is it is just hard as "hell" to do this stuff...lol. It is much easier to be lazy and let it "roll" out.
I have been trying not to gain the weight back and I have tried to discipline myself to continue the youthful skin routine each night...lol. You know, everything claims to give you that "younger appearance" now. As I have said before, I know from experience that our attitudes makes a difference due to what people would tell me about how I looked. So, our inner feelings shine through to the outside.
All the time I was growing up, my mother talked about how women would "let themselves go" after they got married. She never did! She is 82 and still looks like a model! But, I knew what she meant by how women work so hard to "win" their man, and once they get him....then they stop trying any longer. I never wanted to be that way, and hope I wasn't, but I think my unhappiness has probably had its affect.
I am hoping that in time my desire toward my H will increase and things will start to look a lot brighter than they do at this moment. We have overcome a lot. We talked a little last night and he is understanding and patient with me trying to "work through" my ordeal of getting over the OM, etc. Maybe that is not a good way of expressing what I'm trying to say, but hope you know what I mean. He said that he realized I was spending a lot of hours reading the posts on the board here and I have ordered a lot of books and read, so he knows I'm trying to make our marriage work. However, he also realizes that the "feelings" have not returned for me and that I am frustrated about that. I told him that if he did not agree for us to see a C, I did not know how long it may take.....or even if we could get everything resolved. At that point, we were interrupted and never got back to the conversation.
So, I need you all to talk to me......you ARE my C! I need encouragement b/c I am still very tempted to contact the OM.....especially at night when I am feeling so lonely. At first, I would cry when I went to bed b/c I needed to be held and loved....but I'm not doing that so much now. I know that some of you wonder why I can't just go into my H and tell him how I feel and ask him to hold me and to make love to me.....but right now, it would be like trying to do that with my brother...and I cannot force myself to do it. We've not had sex in so many years and it feels more like we are just relatives sharing the same house. I am afraid that I may never have that desire to return. It was exciting to realize I could feel normal sexual desire toward another man....but I knew it was wrong and I had to end it. Until then, I even wondered if I was just not normal. Then, I questioned my love for my H. But, I remember how I felt when I married him and I know that I did love him once. But, I think that my emotional needs were denied so many years and resentments pushed down for so long that maybe it killed a lot of those feelings.
I'm sorry, b/c I know that makes some LBS upset to hear statements like that from WAS. I have heard some angry replies to some statements from LBS to WAS.....so that is why I appreciate you all being so nice to me.
I realized when I replied to a couple of young men regarding their stitch.....how upset or resentful I still was and that I needed to be more careful in how I tried to give "advice". Compasion is something we all need here....regardless of which side of the fense we have come.
Sandi2,
hi, I think your advice is very sound. You are still in a problem marriage yourself, but are willing to fix it, something the rest of us with WAW wish would happen.
I'm not sure if you read the last two posts I sent to you, if not, please do so, I would love some direct advice from "counselor Sandi" lol.
I'm really looking forward to a few tid bits of knowledge from you, someone who is in the middle of a sitch not unlike a lot of ours.
Hi Goodguy,
I looked for the other post, but I must have missed it and then couldn't track it down. Sorry, I try to respond to everyone. I always appreciate anyone who is willing to talk with me.
Try again, and I'll be ont he lookout for ya.
Sandi2, (here it is)
I have just finished reading your last 2 posts, and I am very thankful for your insight.
My W is also a WAW, the 2nd time in 5 years, the 1st time we were apart for 4 months. This time she moved out 2 months ago, but we lived in separate rooms for 5 months before that while we split all assets including the house.
I believe my W tried to tell me many times about what she didn't like in our M, I guess I swept things under the rug, and if she didn't mention it again I thought everything was alright again.
She seemed happy though, we entertained friends, went out for dinner once or twice a week, on vacations, not enough dates though (hard to find a sitter, no family here).
I needed to follow the "Velvet & Steel" plan you mentioned, but like most of us idiot husbands, I pleaded, cried, begged, tried to change her mind, and felt like a sad sack little boy.
Since she's moved out, I've been very good at just being her friend, giving her space and time (told her I loved her once when she asked me why I was looking at her that way) and she got mad at me, said it was not going to change how she feels.
I see her for a few moments a few times every week, I am cordial, smile, but I find it's hard to be a friend, friends hang out and talk, we don't!
I find mutual friends of ours have taken sides too, even my neighbors that we are good friends with have started hanging out only with her, yet at first, they couldn't understand what she was doing and giving up. I have heard that this is typical of friends, one side or the other.
You seem like a woman who has given a lot of yourself to salvage an unhappy R. May I ask if you tried counseling? Or a "couples weekend" that they have around the country? Your M must be a very important vow to you, for all that you have done to try to salvage it. I believe that the people here have a little bit of that passion in them, that's why they read and write and try to find answers. I don't know you, but I am impressed by you.
I went to counseling with my W 4 times before she moved out, it didn't help because she wasn't interested.
When we broke up 5 years ago, she brought home brochures on "Couples weekends", I looked at them and threw them away thinking our problems were solved, I am a jerk!
But I'm a nice jerk, I love my wife and family very much, I am a an affectionate, (not just for sex) hard working, caring idiot who didn't notice my wife trying to smarten me up, and now I am paying the price.
I keep busy with the gym and sports and friends, but I live in a quiet house during the one week my S is with my W, then he comes here for a week and fills the void.
I'm not sure if my W will ever come home, it's a question we all ask ourselves. But I really appreciate your insight and honesty.
If you have any other advice, I will listen with both eyes open.
PS: I was on the phone with my W for about 20 minutes last night, mainly talking about our son. He is fighting my W every step of the way, he doesn't like that we are not together, and he told her he will never be happy again, it broke my heart. My W asked me if I had a girlfriend yet, I told her no (she said why not, you have needs, your only human). I asked her if she had a boyfriend yet, she said no, I asked her why not, your only human, she said I don't need that, you lnow me. Thats us up to date, thanks.
Sandi2,
In regards, to contacting OM, this is the temptation that the devil and his followers are sending your way. He is wanting you to believe the lack of intimacy is because you don't "love" your husband. Sandi2, God teaches us that we are to love ourselves and love others regardless of their actions.
A wall has been put between you and your husband, that wall has been carefully crafted over years so it seems you can not break through it. Again this is the evil ones plan, and he is executing it perfectly. I do not profess anything except you are somewhat familar with my sitch. I am very affectionate by nature and my W. can still offer little to me because of her feelings and how badly I have hurt her. Almost every night a little voice goes off in my head. I don't hear anything but I think it, it just pops in there. My thoughts are this "you deserve better, you will never be happy here again, she will never forgive you, you know what kind of person she is, everything is black and white, give up go out and find someone who appreciates you."
This is a load of crap and a direct result of not focusing on what is truely important. Had I gone to my wife 4 years ago and said, honey we are having issues can we do some things together, I want to listen. I would not been in the position I am in today. Continue to ask for forgiveness, repent when you falter, you may again, we all do at times. But most of all find a way to talk to your husband and try it. Maybe you don't feel it because you have forgotten how it feels.
Just like sometimes we forget about what is right and what is wrong. Ask for help, it will be given and watch for the traps that are always there. His greatest gift to us besides the opportunity to live in paradise (his love eternal) is our free will, but that is what the other preys on.
Choose to love, do things for yourself with the purpose of ultimately doing them for each other. You can learn to love again, it is not that your passion for him is dead, it is you have forgotten and H. probably has as well what it was you had when you guys were more intimate. Find your trigger, conversation or whatever stimulates you, explore things together, you can do it but it is so much easier when you have your husband there to help. Do not fear minor setbacks, just like in the spiritual batttle, the devil wins many battles but he will not win the war. Same goes for our lives, do the right thing, you can find happiness, you wouldn't be together for 20 years if you did not know how.
Hi baybybliss, goodguy,thegoodfight and others,
Thanks for your kind words of encouragement. I ordered more books (lol) and I also got those tapes "Light His Fire", so I hope it will encourage me a lot. I used to love that kind of stuff and would do everything the books said to do! Hopefully, some of that determination will return and I can do the act "as if" thing.
When I am able to get through a day at work and come home....I am ready to collaspe. It is really hard to even fix anything to eat. In fact, I haven't been cooking.....we have either ordered out or just snacked around. He is so great about understanding and not being ugly about it like some men would and demand their cooked supper. I don't mean to blame everything on my physical condition b/c I believe our mental attitude plays a tremendous part of the physical feelings, but it is so very hard to overcome when you just don't have the energy to do anything..However, there again, when I was involved with the OM, it was like this energy came from somewhere I couldn't understand......I just wish it would do that with my H and it really bugs me that it doesn't do that. I am like those commercials on the TV where it is talking about depression and the person just sits or lays around not wanting to talk or work, etc. I have to push, push, push......for every single thing I do, and I just get so tired of it....it is hard to enjoy life when it is that way every day. I sound so whinney and I don't mean to do that....I don't know how to try to get you to understand my "feelings". I want you to know that it is more than just refusing to do it.....I have got to have a little "want to" to have the energy to do it. You know....the mind over matter thing.
At this point.....when it is me reading some whinney female's story after I have tried to give her advice and she is coming back with her "excuses"....I am ready to move on and forget about her. I suppose some will be that way toward me b/c that is how I sound! God help me! But, it is a double whammy when you are in a lot of physical pain on top of the R problem to deal with every day. I am blessed that my H does not demand things from me as I have heard a lot of men do their wives. He has been good to help around the house b/c I just can't do much. Today, I had to stay home from work due to the pain I was in. I know he must get so tired of having to live with somebody like me that is never any fun to be with anymore.
I used to be fun. I would be the one to think of things to do while we sent the kids to spend the night with the grandparents. We didn't have the money to spend on entertainment, so I had to think up our own....lol. But, it was fun and I know my H would love for me to be that way again. I get down b/c I am afaid from what I have read that i won't ever feel that good again. Today was one of those days that I had to fight the depression hard. Guess you all can tell that....huh?
I need to feel my H's strength and support, but I'm not ready for the sexual touching, etc. I guess I do need C about that. Some days I could cry my eyes out....if it would do any good. I want to love him and desire his touch.....but it just doesn't seem to come. I want to act "as if"....but you see, if I do that then I know him and I know he will think it is a signal for him that everything is fine and I'm ready to have sex again....and I know what will happen. It has happen before. When he starts to touch me....I will freeze up. I won't be able to respond. He will feel the rejection and turn from me and I will feel the guilt and the wall will go up higher.
So, I don't know what to do......I sincerely don't know. I can't afford steady C at this point due to all the other medical bills. I have thought if I could just "force" myself to have sex one time that maybe that would help me to tear the wall down and I would be okay. But, I tried for years and years to tell him not to go so long between times (not having sex)b/c I knew if affected me that way, but he wouldn't listen to me. When I finally got to the place I was ready to be the wife I thought he had always dreamed of, and we were having sex and I thought was doing pretty good......he stopped cold turkey without one word of explantion....and still won't give any. So, we went eleven years without sex and I don't know why. He always blamed me for the lack of sex, but he was the one that quit.....not me. Now, I know him well enough to know he is (as usual) waiting on me....and I can't do it. It breaks my heart. But for you, my sweet friends, that advise me to just "do it"......could you just "do it" with your brother or your sister? That is what I feel like.
I'm sorry for sounding so.......yucky tonight. Lord, I hate the way I sound. It is just the same old....same old... with me all the time. Maybe I shouldn't have tried to write anything tonight since it hasn't been a good day, but I wanted you to know that I was so glad to get your responses......and Lord knows, I need them.
Hi Sandy,
you wrote,
At first, I would cry when I went to bed b/c I needed to be held and loved....but I'm not doing that so much now. I know that some of you wonder why I can't just go into my H and tell him how I feel and ask him to hold me and to make love to me.....but right now, it would be like trying to do that with my brother...and I cannot force myself to do it.
i was wondering...
if you are lonely.. why are you not with your husband?
why dont you ask him to hold you?
Just hold you?
In my opinion, the most important thing you could do, for both yourself and your husband, is just to do that every night.
For your part, let him put his arms around you, close your eyes, and remind yourself that you are being held by the person who loves you the
very most in this world, and that there is
no one else who loves you even half as much as this man does.
God bless
oh, ps: you make the analogy of "doing it with your brother or sister".
I think that is projecting something upon him that is not deserved.
a "long time friend" might be fairer.
In the case of a brother or sister, there is a specific reason NOT TO have sex with them. Whereas with your husband, you merely are "not attracted to him". There's a big difference between the two.
Unless there's something you're not saying? Unless there's some reason you actually feel a compulsion NOT TO have sex with your husband, rather than just not "having feelings" for him.
Thank you Dom R,
You are probably correct in what you said about the "brother-sister" thing. I guess b/c that was what girls use to say a long time ago when I was a teenager (lol)....you know, he was like a "brother" to us and did not want to date him. Anyway, we have been married 42 years this December and the past 22 of those years he has chosen to fall asleep on the couch while watching TV. As first, I would try to get him to go to bed, but finally I gave up and realized he was doing what he wanted to do. When I tried to talk to him about it, he would use my illness and the fact I could not sleep well and that I used a lot of pillows in the bed, etc. But, it just sounded like flimsy excuses to me. He has always perfered to sleep on the couch....even when we were young and he would go to my bed and get sex, then he would get back up and sleep on the couch.
We have talked about our R and we both think we have fallen into this area of feeling "comfortable" and just lazy about working at it anymore. However, that is what led to my lonliness and that led me to the OM. So, it is not a good place to be.
As far as asking him to hold me.....I have pleaded with him when we were young to go to bed with me and told him all the emotional reasons that I needed him to do that. I have tried to explain that that would lead into the sexual part also....but he would not compromise with me and that caused a lot of hurt feelings and resentment that has been pushed way down over the years. I think it contributed to killing some of the "in-love" feelings I had for him.
No, I am not attracted to him sexually. He is not a bad looking man for his age, so it has nothing to so with his looks. I love him and care about him. That is why I compared him to a "brother". I have no desire to kiss him or for him to hold me. A few weeks ago we had some financial problems where I had accidently overdrawn my checking account. I just fell apart b/c I was so upset. I walked over to him and laid my head on his shoulder and told him how sorry I was.....and he put his arms around me and told me it was okay. However, I could have done any relative that same way......and, I wasn't wanting sex from him that evening, either.
It is so hard for me to try and explain. I'm sure it is difficult to see it from my point of view and people don't know WHY it is so hard to just "do it" and then, maybe.....hopefully....if you are lucky....the feelings may follow. Well, I did just "do it" for a long time, but the feelings did not follow. It was easier, however, when we would have sex on a regular bases and not wait for weeks and then him come in and "make the moves on me" b/c then I resented it and it was hard to get into the mood.
I prayed and prayed for years that God would "fix" me so I could be the W my H deserved to have. Finally......finally, I felt that a "break-through" was just around the corner when my H stopped! No word....nothing. Just stopped. How ironic! I was so angry.....but, I pushed it down inside and thought how ironic that when I finally get to the place he wanted me to be....he stops. But, I thought he blamed me b/c he could not "perform".....b/c he did not get sex regularly. So....it was always my fault...didn't matter.....I was to blame.
I even told him once that I would have sex anytime he wanted it and not to worry about being rejected. That was not good enough for him! Nope! He wanted me to be ....(excuse the bluntness) hot and horny. Well, I wasn't, but I tried to be "willing"....for his sake. But again, it wasn't enough for him. So, can you see how I felt like I just couldn't do anything right......in the sex department? I tried to read books and do all the little "fun" things to spice up the M that the books said to do. But, it still didn't seem to be enough for him. I think he wanted me to be the one to seduce him....and that is just not me. Never was before marriage and never was after marriage. It is just not my personality. At least it wasn't with him! And, he is the only man I ever had sex with. You know the weird thing? I could not do with him.....like I did with the OM on-line! That tells me something is not right! Where it was exciting to (again, excuse the bluntness) perform on cam to the OM.....I can't do that with my H.
So, I need counseling! That is why I felt like I was not in love with my H. That is why I questioned my R with him.
We are too old to think about D, etc. I am too old to start over....too set in my ways, probably. Today I am discouraged and think nothing will change and that I will have to accept this to be like this the rest of my life. I will never know what it would have been like to have an exciting sex life with another man. I will have to "settle" for whatever is salvaged from this M and just try to throw myself into church work like I always did.....my entire life.
I have said that I think I'm probably the oldest person on here. I have seen a few men my age post, but have not seen any women, that at least admitted to being 60. It seems rediculas to younger couples....for someone my age to be having M problems....especially sexual problems. (Probably turns some sick to their stomach to think about it...lol) But, it happens. Most people my age just won't admit it.
My grandfather had sex until he was almost 80 and got cancer. Guess what his biggest concern was? Yep.....that he couldn't have sex! It is a big part of us.....but I don't believe it is the most important part. It has been in the center of my mind b/c my H always made me feel guilty about me being frigid towards him. I have tried to figure it out for all these years, but I've never been able to. I was never abused or anything. Came from a wonderful family.....had a great dad, etc. So, nothing like that ever happened to make me feel the way I do.
Well, guess I have mostly "journaled" today. Thanks so much for showing that you are concerned. I don't have any close friends right now. I talked about that to my H the other night. I don't know why.....just don't have any close friends to hang out with....have fun with or anything. So, I need you all to talk with me and I appreciate it so much.
Hey babybliss, guess what arrived in the mail today? I got the tapes....twice. Don't know how I managed to do it, but somehow ordered it twice. So, maybe I'll be twice as smart when I've gone through the "Light His Fire".
I'm having fun with my S, took him roller skating last night and went to the water park today. But this whole week I've found I'm missing my W. I mean really missing her. But I'm sticking to my DBing, she asked me if I have a girlfriend yet, I told her NO, and she asked why since I'm only human. So I asked her if she had a boyfriend yet, she said no, I asked why, and she said you know me, I don't need one. (She knows sex has always been a pretty high priority for me, she wonders why I am not fulfilling that need). Any ideas why she would ask about a girlfriend?
My buddy came over the other night with a girl 10 years younger than me he knows from out of town (here on vacation) and I could have made a move, she was flirting big time. She kissed me, and it ended there.
I must admit it was nice, I didn't feel guilty until I thought about my W kissing some OM, then I didn't feel too good about it.
I guess I'm still searching for answers.
My W has been out of our house for 64 days (who's counting), and on Sept. 4th, it will have been 7 months since she dropped the bomb!
I have heard it takes 1 month of DBing for each year of marriage, therefore it would require 14 months of DBing, I wonder if that includes the 5 months we lived under the same roof in different rooms?
As you can see, I'm grabbing at straws.
I am taking my son with me over to a friends for a bar-b-q in a few minutes, he can swim with some other kids.
He is my whole life right now. My oldest son is 20, so I hardly ever see him.
I'll look forward to some ideas from you good people when I check back tomorrow morning,
Thanks.
Hi GoodGuy,
You are a sweetie....and you hang in there doing the DBing. I am proud of you not giving in to the temptation of the young woman. I know it had to have been hard being away from your W and missing the sex, etc. But, I know you are still very much in love with your W and I hope that you can control that type of temptation b/c I would be leary of "rebound" relationships. To some people it would just be a one night stand.....but then you never know what is going through the OP's mind. Ever watch Fatal Attraction? (lol) Well, that was a little over the top to use that for an example, but you just have to be careful when you mess with people intimately.
As far as your W asking if you had a GF yet....and you wondered why? I can tell ya...since you asked (lol). Could be curiosity...plain and simple, however, I think it is a very good sign. Now listen to me sweetie...you guys get all pumped up over the least bit of encouragement...so I don't want you to go crazy here, ok? But, if she did not "care"....believe me, she would not have asked. The downside of that would be that she thinks you having a GF will let her off the hook (b/c you would loose interest in her) and get you out of her life for good. Hopefully, it is not that.
About the time slot for DBing, etc., don't even think about that....except to keep you from expecting too much too soon. I have also heard that there is a mimimum of three years in MLC...but I don't think that is true for everyone. When we realize what we are doing and really....really try hard to pull out of it, I believe we can. I also think I was sort of the exception since I was already over the hill of midlife....lol. I have to joke around and try to lighten things up a bit on here or this board would just get too depressing! Anyway, every couple and each individual is their own stitch and we can't measure it by a calendar. I have also heard some LBS say that if their S is not back in six months (or however long) they are forgetting them, etc. You just can't put a time allowance on relationships....not if they truly are important to you. But, I think you asked b/c you are in pain and are hoping that some mile markers have been passed. (((hug)))
One other thought about your W asking about a GF.....she may be watching to see if you go running after the women to satisfy your "needs" as she must have assumed you would. Maybe she thought she was just there to do that "service" for you. That sounds so harsh to word it like that, but some wives do think that is the only interest their H's have in them. Hopefully, she will see that you not are interested in other women for sex (or any other reason) b/c you still love her. Maybe that can help you to remember that when a "young thing" comes tempting you again.....and be prepared, cause it will probably happen.
Thanks Sandi,
I just spoke to my W for about 15 minutes about nothing really, just chit chat. We seem to do more of that lately when she calls to say good night or good morning to our S.
We joke a little, keep it light, so I feel good about that.
One of the big reasons she left was because I like my adult beverages, she does too, but she has a limit, where I am like the energizer bunny, I keep going and going....I did quit libations for 5 or 6 months, but have been enjoying them again on weekends, a little during the week, but not much. That is the one big change I wanted to stick to, but have failed at that lately. She doesn't want me to eliminate drinking, but she would like it in moderation, that is something I have to work on.
Now lets talk about you.
You have made every reader on this board proud the way you want to work on your marriage.
In order to get yours back on track, I think you both need to do something out of the ordinary, to get that "he seems like a brother to me" philosphy out of your head. Have you ever been on a cruise? Just a 3 or 4 night one? That could help get the juices flowing again, because you can have a nice dinner every night, either by yourselves, or at a table with strangers that can get diologue going, a bottle of wine, a massage to relax both of you etc etc..
How about going bowling together, a picnic, getting a dog you could both walk, you know, couple stuff.
Does your H have any hobbies? Does he like sports? How about you, could he get interested in something you enjoy?
How about you send him over to my place so I can kick him in the a*% and I'll tell him what a lucky man he is to have a W who will stay in the M at all costs, while our W have left, and we are so lonely without them.
I hope you are right about my W asking about GF's, I believe she didn't ask to make me forget about her, at least thats my gut feeling.
PS Sandi: No, you are the sweetie.
Dear GoodGuy,
Oh my gosh.....you made my day! Do you know I have been beating myself up today b/c I pretty much let a man, on the board here, have it yesterday! I seem to be doing that lately....by that I mean that I am sounding very angry. So, today I have been questioning myself about that and wondering why I feel this anger. I don't know if it is a stage that I have to work through or if it is something I need counseling about....I don't have a clue.
I had a great father....(grieved him very much when he died) and I was never abused by him, my husband, or any other man. My parents were close and were wonderful examples for me. So, I don't think it could stem from anything in my past.
I have started working with teenagers the past month at church and last Wednesday night and yesterday....I almost let my temper get away from me. (Well, they are little demons!) But, that is not like me to be that way. And, like I said, I've been somewhat sarcastic to a couple here on the board. I don't want to sound like that. If people had treated me like that when I came looking for help....I would have left and never returned.
I hate to tell you this after all the sweet things you had to say, but I do it b/c you show your concern....and that is what friends do. So, hoping that I have indeed made a new friend, I hold this out to you hoping you may offer any ideas. I hate seeing bitter old women.....oh God, I don't want to end up like that! Nothing is more ugly to me than a bitter, angry old lady!
The reason I thought it might be a "stage" or something I'd have to work through is b/c at first I felt very remoseful for what I had done....and then very embarrased to discover my grown D had known all the time what was going on....and then I had a hard time forgiving myself (still working on that one)....so I just wondered if this is another phase. I know I am probably talking outloud here, b/c I know you wouldn't know since you aren't the WAS. Perhaps you have read it somewhere and can tell me.
I think I need to forgive my H for his failure in meeting my emotional needs....that only he could fill. But, it is hard when he doesn't think he has done anything wrong. Perhaps that is why I am angry....everything has always been my fault (according to him)!
I agree with you about how we need to do something out of the ordinary. We go to work and church and that is our life! Ugh! Everyone needs more than that!
My brother-sister anology of our R wasn't a good one, but I was trying to explain how that I love my H but it is like loving a family member that you've lived with for a very long time. You love that person, but certainly don't want to have sex with them....well, that is how I feel toward him. It's awful. I don't want to feel that way, but I can't seem to change. Michelle says to just "do it", but that is easier said than done. But.....I promise....I am going to try to get the "brother" philosphy out of my mind. It sure would help if I could just feel a tiny bit of attraction toward him.
I was the one that always wanted to do the fun things....but could never get him involved. He doesn't have any hobbies, doesn't care for sports,.......nothing...but watch TV. Well, I finally got burned out on TV after so many years of doing nothing else. I used to try to just get him to walk around the block with me, but he wouldn't. If you have read my other posts, you saw where I've told stories of things I did when we were younger....you know, to put sizzle back into the marriage. Even though I was not that HD sexually....*I* was the one that would come up with the ideas to do fun things and to keep life in the MR. Well, after I got sick with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia....I guess I just got tired of always being the one to have to do it all and felt like he should put forth some effort if he wanted it......after all, he seem to think that "sex" was the life of the marriage. He never had an original idea in 41 years except to go get a motel room in a different town. Well, that was just the same recipe just in a different pot. (You like that? I just made that up.....lol)
Sometimes I think if I just had the physical energy again maybe I would have a different mental attitude. I'm sorry sweetie, I'm having a pity party and you didn't even ask to come...i just grabbed your hand and pulled you in anyway.
I really want to help others here on the board......I truly do. If nothing else, by my own mistakes and what I've learned over the years. Sometimes I feel like I've tried everything. There are days I feel as though I've read every book that has been written about M....(lol). I look at other couples that have been married as long as my H and me.....and some have almost a "dead" look in their eyes. I don't want that! I want to be in love.....I want to feel alive! I felt dead for 11 years and then I found the OM (God help me) and realized that I'm not dead on the inside! I am very much alive and still have desires that I dream of being fulfilled. I don't want to be like those other couples that don't have anything left to give or to feel. On bad days (like apparently today is) it scares the hell out of me b/c I wonder if there is any hope left for me and my H. Are we too settled in our ways? Can we still change? If I was teaching a class.....I would argue the fact that that is all a myth and anyone can change if they want to badly enough. But the key word is "want". And, that, sweetie, is what scares me. Do I "want" it badly enough?
Well, you can't answer that for me....I know that. Guess I've done more journaling than anything else. I needed a friend today and you came along at the right time (or wrong time for you...lol). Thanks, sweetie. Now, I'm having a good cry.....and you know us females.....that always seems to help us.
Now.....about you.....ahhhh....you didn't think I would get around to that, did you? If I drank.....and I may take it up any day...lol, I am sure I would be an alcoholic! If I ever took drugs.....I would be an addict. Well, I do take drugs....but you know what I mean. (The kind I have to take aren't any fun at all.) Oh....I better stop before I really make matters worse.
Anyway, I just wanted to tell you to please be careful and remember that your body needs you to take care of it....cause trust me, we pay for it dearly before we think it's time to. Before you know it, you'll be 60 years old trying to tell someone 12 years younger than you......and pray they will listen. I'm certainly not going to preach to ya, but I think you are smart.....(yep, I have decided that)....and I think you will know what is most valuable in life to you.
Ok, so guess I'm through crying and *not* preaching (lol) and will let you go for now, but hope you talk to me again soon. Again, thanks for coming by when I needed you.
Everyone on here has been good to me and I appreciate that. We all need each other as we work through our problems. I'm here for you guys and I hope you will continue to be here for me, too.
P.S. I got the "Light His Fire" and have been listening to the tapes. Maybe they will get my light charged and blazing again!
I'm looking for answers tonight Sandi, and I can't seem to find them. My W called tonight and I wanted so bad to answer the phone, but I let my S get it. Since I spoke to her for a while this morning, I figured I better not push it.
I miss hugging her, we did that quite a bit. I miss her calling me "honey", I miss a lot of things about her.
I don't know if she is going through a MLC, I really don't think so. But I know she was very angry with me.
She said some things that hit me pretty hard before she left.
I only called her a name once through all of this, about a month before she left.
My friends want to hook me up with someone, in fact my buddies wife told me Saturday night that she would feel great if she could be the one that introduces me to my next girlfriend!
My best friend asked me how long do I plan on waiting, and they look at me in disbelief when I tell them would take her back. They tell me she's left twice now, why would you want her back?
I know I'll be conncected to her forever because of our S. But I'm not looking forward to more time and holidays w/o her. We have already gone through Valentines day, our 14th anniversary, both our birthdays, and both the boys birthdays are coming up next month.
I will continue DBing, I will give her time and space, I won't talk about the R or our M. I will be her friend. But she never asks me to help her, I offered to change the oil on her car, but she refused.
She is about to lose her job, she works under the table taking care of a 90 year old lady, and the lady is going into a nursing home. She has always been there for my S when he got home from school, she wants to continue doing that, but I'm not sure she can find a job with those hours and still make ends meet, unless she wants to burn through the proceeds from me refinancing the house and our divided assets, she's got quite a few bucks in the bank from that.
I guess I can't worry about that. It's my job to take care of her, and I'm failing miserably at it.
Gotta go for now, talk to you later.
GoodGuy......maybe you should consider changing your name. You may be too good for your own good. No, I don't believe good guys come in last......don't give up. But, I don't know that I agree about you taking care of her. When she removed herself from your home....IMO....she took herself out from under your responsibility. Apparently she does not want your help (i.e. the oil change) so I do not personally think that H's should be financially responsible for the W if she is the one that leaves. If the courts order it...then of course you have to, but that is my personal feelings about it. Why make things easier for her? That is not your responsibility. If you had left her and especially with a child,that would be different. I'm sorry, I have forgotten which one the S lives with.....having a senior moment here....anyway, I believe a dad should pay child support, don't get me wrong, however, in some cases where the W squanders the money away and the child does not benefit....then I think the dad should buy the food, clothes for his child, etc. and give instead of cash handed to the W. I see where you can't always do that under the court system, but I guess I'm trying to make a point here.
I know you still love her, sweetie, and miss her nearness. That is normal and it hurts like hell. But, don't rush into another relationship b/c of this. I don't think you are ready for the dating scene. People amaze me how they want to push a single person into another R as soon as possible. That is crazy and will open you up for all kinds of problems. Wait it out. You will know when the time is right.
Because you love her and your child, it is hard to let go of feeling responsible for her. You have not failed! Please get that out of your mind. The hardest thing I had to learn as a parent was for me to sit back and allow my children to make their own dicisions and suffer the consequences. You will have to do the same thing where your W is concerned. It will be so hard for you. But, she does not need to think she can depend on you for financial support. She cut herself off from that along with her decision to leave you as her H. If she got proceeds from the sale of the home.....then she got her share and that is all she should get. How she spent it was her business....but don't feel like you've got to help her out now. It is called "tough love" and it is exactly that....tough.
Let me tell you something. That is the first reason (not the only reason...but the first) that I did not walk away from my H. If I could have made it financially on my own....I would have left. However, I knew I couldn't and I did not want to have to live with my mother, so I decided I would have to stay....even though I didn't really want to at the time. However, during the days that followed, I found this board and I got help and then I knew I was going to have to make a decision about who I wanted to spend my life with.....OM or H. So, I chose my H. But, if I had not been sort of forced to stay here out of financial need at the beginning.....I probably would not be here right now trying to work on my M.
When you get lonely and tempted....do as I do and come here and read, read, read, and then talk, talk, talk. Believe me...it helps get you through many a night!
Take care sweetie.....we are here for you.
Hi again Sandi,
Believe it or not, I read all of what you wrote in reply to me
and I think I know what you are saying, and something about how you feel.
here's the most important thing that I think you wrote:
We have talked about our R and we both think we have fallen into this area of feeling "comfortable" and just lazy about working at it anymore. However, that is what led to my lonliness and that led me to the OM. So, it is not a good place to be.
So, you recognize that the way you are, is not a good way to be. And you also recognize that you have the "force of habit" working against you.
22 years, is a LOT of habit.
I read what you wrote about "when you were young", and you "tried that".
here's the thing: have you read DB?
I think this is the time to focus on one thing in there, which is to start on things "with a beginner's mind".
Dont try to hash out all the things that you did or did not do in the past. Try to look at your situation, NOW, as a brand new situation.
No history.
The first step in being happily intimate in a sexual way, is to be happily intimate, in a non-sexual way. And the simplest thing is for you to hold each other.
Instead of making excuses to not even try... How about you just decide to try it, and see what happens?
Forget about the past. Focus on the present, and future. Ask your husband to hold you. Dont even go into long, detailed "this may lead to sex" rationales. Just say that you feel the need for
[comfort, being held, whatever honest reason you like].
Just ask him. And keep doing it for a while.
Every night for a week, perhaps?
If he says yes, and you allow yourself to be comfortable with that.. keep doing it!
If it doesnt... then we can all help you think of other things.
but lets start with the easy, straightforward things first, yes? !!
I think that part of the issue you are dealing with in yourself, is "performance anxiety". You are so hung up on, "I HAVE to do this..." that are you too stressed to enjoy it, or get excited about it. Lots of people psych themselves out of enjoying sex this way. So forget about any "big goals" for now. And just enjoy being held.
I can tell from what you write about him, that your husband will be more than willing to hold you, if you tell him that is what you need from him.
And if you'd like to do something back for him.. the biggest, best thing you can do in return....
is to simply smile at him while he holds you.
I think that's what your husband would most like from you right now.
I am too old to start over....too set in my ways, probably.
"Grandma moses".. a famous, and well respected american painter... STARTED painting, at 80.
You not to old to start anything.. and even excel at it!
The only thing stopping you from being happy.. is your own stubbornness :P
Sandi,
I posted a detailed message only to get kicked off when i submitted it, lost in cyber space, so here's a slightly abbreviated version.
I pay child support, one that she asked for that was fair.
My S lives with me for one week, then with his mom for one week.
I also have a 20 year old S from a previous short lived marriage (she was pregnant and I married her, ooops!) so I know what you mean by stepping back and letting them find out their mistakes on their own. I will do the same with my W.
I truly believe that although there is no etopia when it comes to marriage, I know that there is a woman out there who will think my W must have lost her marbles to let me go, that is not egotistical, it's the truth. Maybe my W will discover she didn't try hard enough to salvage our R. You have said before that men sometimes either don't listen well enough, or they don't comprehend what their W is telling them, I'm guilty as charged of that for sure. Having said that, it doesn't diminish how I feel about her, because I would do anything for her.
You mentioned you would have walked away from your H if you could have made it financially. Are you talking about when you were 1st married or in the last # of years?
Because my W only worked 15 hours a week, took 1/2 the proceeds from me refinancing my house and 1/2 our assets and the child support and she is doing very well, and still only working 20 hours a week. A nice gig if you can get it!
IMO....I'm sure you could have managed with the same, so it must be something a little deeper than just finances?
I will continue to return to this site and listen, read, understand, and keep working at it. Thanks, we are here for you too.
Grandma Moses, huh? lol
Oh, thanks I needed that. Seriously! Yes, I will try. But, I will not deny that it will be very hard because today is one of those days that I feel very resentful and don't want to even think about him touching me. Sad, isn't it? That is when I start wondering if I really love him the way a wife should love her H. Oh, I'm just rambling......just got home from work and tired and just not feeling all that high on life right now. Guess I shouldn't write when I'm so down, but I wanted to respond to your post. You guys are the best. I know I almost beg you to talk to me, but I seriously need it to keep me going.
I am still ordering books and reading and listening to tapes, etc. So, I've not given up even if I paint a dark picture sometimes. Think Grandma Moses ever did that?
I have thought about what you suggested ......the starting brand new frame of mind. I want to do that, but I'm not sure I know how or will have what it takes. God, I just want to get excited about it......just a little bit! It would break my heart to think I am going to feel like this for the rest of my life.
Sandi, you have to wake yourself up soon and stop using all your passion to lament the things you think you do not have.
There is no way your husband is going to understand the extent of your emotions (or lack thereof) if you don't walk yourself into the other room and tell him. Tell him you love him and you want your marriage to succeed but for it to do so he has to pull his head outta the idiot-box (that's what my Papa calls the TV)and HELP YOU. My old friend crazedmom had the exact same problem before she left this board. Her husband was like a bump on a log! Woman,
you HAVE PASSION. It is splattered throughtout every single one of your posts.
I want you to make a plan.
I don't care if it's to go feed pigeons or to go skinny-dipping in Mr. Johnson's pond, just MAKE ONE. Don't ASK your husband if he wants to go. Tell him "Honey, next Saturday I have planned for us to __________________ . We will be leaving at ____ am/pm. Please be ready. I am very much looking forward to this" (don't worry about throwing in that guilt card at then end, either. Sometimes it's a good thing!)
One more thing... and this is gonna make your teeth fall out when you read it (dentures or NOT!)....do you have a full length mirror?
If you don't, I think you can get one at Walmart for about $5 this time of the year.
Do your hair up however you do it.
Get out your prettiest nightie (if you haven't bought one in years, get out the best one you have - NO EXCUSES).
Look at yourself in the mirror. Pose yourself as if you were 15 again. Pucker up and kiss the mirror with bright red lipstick on, woman! You see where I'm going with this? Find your inner VAMP. Find your beauty. Find your sexuality. Shut the freakin door while Homie is watching Jeopardy or whatever - spend some time with yourself. Let yourself feel pretty. Let yourself feel sexy. I'm thinking if you get
yourself kicked into gear, Homie's gonna start looking a little more appealing and you can get over this god-forsaken hump you're stuck on. Don't tell me you're fat either or any other nonsense. I'm not going to accept that. Some of the sexiest women in the world have more cushin' for the pushin' if you know what I'm sayin'
.
Things don't have to remain this way, Sandi.
But the ball is in your court to change the status quo.
So get out there and bounce! (no pun intended)
And hey, if you're worried about God, let me remind you, it's all legal because this man is your husband. Now work it, girl!
AmyC
You really think I have passion? WOW!
I like that! I really, really like that!
You can really see that in the posts I write?
Hummm.....I'm almost about to feel a tinge!
Go check in the mirror!
AND YES.
Your posts are FILLED with PASSION.
You just need to channel it in the right direction and then give Homie a swift kick in the pants (or something)!
Hey GoodGuy.........
You are right about your W loosing her marbles! You have seen your mistakes and now know what to do if you get another chance with her......and if not, you know what not to do with another lady....given the chance. Either way, you will be a better man and husband for some lucky woman.
I probably shouldn't tell this, but I will. It is to show that others see things that we wish our mates would see....and some DO before it is all too late. Anyway, a statement made by the OM in my life was that he could not believe any man (especially my H) would let me slip through his fingers! Now, let me tell you....that was medicine for this ole gal who needed to hear she was still sexy and pretty....and special. So, it is things like that that we hear, either from our spouse or from OP, that will make us feel like we are beautiful and important.
I remember the first time my new (female) boss saw my H and made the comment that now she saw why I went home ever night! So, for a minute I tried to look at my H through her eyes! I first thought, "Are you looking at MY husband?" I was actually surprised that she found him attractive! So, it goes both ways.....I am not blameless here. I need to see him through "new" eyes also.
I got so tickled when I read AmyC's post! Oh, but it was so good for me! Gee, I needed that! But, you know what? She is right....I do have what it takes....and what's more important...I know I do! So, (darn it) it DOES put the ball in my court and I am going to have to get off my duff and make a move!
By the way, how does she know I have "cushion"? lol.......Oh, but it is in all the right places, Amy!.........oh, lordy, I've got to stop before I get into trouble here.
Where was I? Oh, yes, ......about you! (I had a very good nap this evening and must have woke up in a much better mood from since I first came home from work.) But serious,....at least I will try to be here for a minute.....you were asking about my financial reasons and not walking away, etc. You see, I had no child support nor any proceeds from anything. The amount that is left from all my insurance withholdings, etc, from my check every month was not enough to live on. Believe me, I figured rent, untilities, food, gas, etc., etc.,.......and it all added up to more than what I brought home...and I was not allowing anything for clothes, medicine, or anything extra like that. So all I can say is that your W has it made, whether she realizes it or not, and is lucky in that department. I wonder though, if she did not have the child support or the proceeds to fall back on, just how long she could make it. I have a feeling that that was quite a nice little "pot" for her to dip into whenever she needed it. Anyway......enough about that.
I want you to keep your self-esteem healthy. Just because you don't want to date another woman right now doesn't mean anything needs "fixing" and it sounds like you are thinking wisely. You DO WANT a relationship with your W....that is understandable.....and you have certainly not given up at this point. However, I think you are thinking right to know that you are turning out to be a better person....in spite of all the pain you've been through. You are young and if you can't have your W.....then some other woman will be lucky to get you. However, as I've said before....just be sure you are over your wife, sweetie, because it won't work with anybody else....until you get over her.
Take care and let me hear from you.
Sandi,
Too true that I need to be over my W before I can move on with someone else.
You said:
"You are right about your W loosing her marbles! You have seen your mistakes and now know what to do if you get another chance with her..........and if not, you know what not to do with another lady....given the chance. Either way, you will be a better man and husband for some lucky woman."
After a great deal of thought and the more I DB, the more I think that every human on the planet can make improvements to the way they lead their life, the way they interact, the way they treat their fellow man, to be more giving, nicer, more polite.
I was a great husband and father, maybe just not a good fit for my W? My W comes from a divorced family, her dad cheated on her mother for years until they D. Her mother to this day hates men, if a couple are fighting, it's always the guys fault in her eyes.
My W and her mother are very close, and I think that has rubbed off on her big time.
I love my W, but I'm starting to realize that no matter what I do, it may not be enough? Perfection is not attainable, I wouldn't want to be perfect anyway, I like being human, with good values and morals, maybe a little rough around the edges at times, but still kind and considerate. We all strive to be good people, at least the ones on this site. Maybe it's the WAS that need to take a good long look in the mirror and see they are not perfect either, maybe they could try a little harder. And if they don't want to, perhaps we are better off w/o them?
It hurts our families, but then, the WAS knew that before pulling the plug on their M.
How's that Sandi, does that sound sour enough for you?
My S said my W wants to have family night on Friday night, I'm not sure if that came from his mom or him?
Have a great day, tell me I'm just pissed off, and I need to concentrate at the task at hand, and put this puzzle back together again!
Maybe it's the WAS that need to take a good long look in the mirror and see they are not perfect either, maybe they could try a little harder.
If you don't mind me saying...there is no "maybe" to it.
A WAW is too overall wrapped up in herself to do this though. It's all about THEM and what THEY want. It's all pretty much justified in her mind, too. Bet your behind on that part.
A MLC/WAW is even further demented in her thinking because while she KNOWS she isn't doing right, she can't get her heart and feet inline with that one sane voice that's left in her head.
You have to look out for YOU.
That is the bottom line.
MLC/WAW, or just WAW, crazy goes nowhere but downhill fast and she'll take everyone with her that hangs on long enough. Do note that while I said "crazy", I am well aware of how sane a WAS can appear... but I still say a good many of them 'ain't' right in the head
.
Best wishes,
AmyC
I just spoke to that WAW and I asked her if it was her idea or our S idea to go out for our 2nd family night. (our 1st one was about 5 weeks ago).
She told me it's our S idea, she pressed him and he said he wants us to get back together, thats why he wants to go out.
Therefore she no longer wants to go out, she asked me how I felt and I just listened, listened and listened. I just agree.
I had to call her back 15 minutes later about an unrelated thing, and it sure sounded like she had been crying, I'm not sure what about though.
She is really starting to bug me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
she asked me how I felt and I just listened, listened and listened. I just agree.
So why didn't you tell her how you felt when she asked and why do you agree with her if you actually don't?
Handling a WAW with kid gloves all the time isn't going to get you far.
Sweetie Pie, if we ever have a bad day at the same time....God help everyone! What would you say if I said I agree with your post you sent me? Would you be surprised? Don't be. I just wished that more of the WAW's would come here, but for the most part....that is not what they are wanting....to salvage the M. They want to be free....that is their upmost desire. They want to be free of the spouse and the M. They want to be free to do whatever with whomever they choose. So, ever LBS has a reason to feel pissed when they HAVE tried and not succeeded in resolving the problems and getting their family back together. Both sides of the fense could point fingers at each other all day and nothing be accomplished, but somewhere somebody has got to do some forgiving and some changing. It gets mighty frustrating when you feel like you are the only one doing all of it.
What you said about your W's dad is so important. I will tell you what I told my son when they were expecting their first child and was told it was going to be a baby girl. "You will be her first love. The way you treat her and the way she sees you treat her mother will determine how she will feel toward other men in her lifetime." I believe that with all my heart. Little girls even learn to "flirt" and wrap their daddy's around their little finger at a very young age. They learn how to use their little female ways on their daddys. I said all that to say this, when you told me about your FIL....it told a lot about your wife! On top of all of what your FIL did wrong.....is how your wife's mother's attitude toward him has affected your poor wife. I know what I'm talking about here.
I have never told anyone on this board before, but I will tell you now. I think that in many ways the reason I had a problem with sex was my own mother's attitude toward it. While growing up and we would have our "mother-daughter" talks about the facts of life.....her bad attitude would always show through her talks. You see, she had a very, very bad experience while still young and she never got over it. Although she did not realize what she was doing....she was passing those same feelings down to me. I "think" I have over-come those feelings, but at the same time, I know that for some reason I don't want to have sex with my H. It isn't the "act" itself......I kind of like it (lol), so that is why I think it is the "relationship" I'm having the problem with. But, I know that a mother's attitude can influence a daughter more than anyone else in the world.
This is one of those days you are tired and feel like giving up. Try to hang on......b/c tomorrow may be my day.
Bugging the heck out of ya, huh? Well, since you have a son together it is rather hard to distant yourself, but, you may want to work something out to see if you can limit the times you talk to her or actually lay eyes on her for a while. I know cases where the dad goes to pick up the child and dad sits in the car and waits for the child to get in and the mom never sticks her head out the door. What I'm trying to say is that a few days without contact may be the medicine you need now. It sounds like you may be on the verge of a big "blow-up" from stress building up inside of you. Maybe you should think about it.
Dear thegoodfight,
Just read the post you had sent me.....again. I do that some nights....just go back over them so I will stay on the "straight & narrow". I don't think I really told you how much I appreciated what you had to say to me, but I do. I agree 100% with everything you said.
People that know me think I am a strong person.....spiritually speaking. Even my H thinks so, but what he doesn't seem to know is that I need a lot of encouragement.....in about every way a person could use it. I may even appear to have a lot of self-confidence, but I need to be given a certain amount of praise or compliments from my H to "bloom" like a rose. Whenever he critisizes me.....it is like I rebell.
Well, if I've learned one thing for sure.....I am very, very human! Yes, I messed up and yes I hurt my family.....but also God forgave me and my H has forgiven me. So, I am very blessed!
I recognize that old "tempter" and what he wants to do to me and my family. I have spent my life working in the Church and trying to serve the Lord. This time that I "fell" was a bugger!......but thank God for His Grace! And.....thank God for people like you for coming on here and giving us encouragement. I wouldn't blame every LBS for being bitter and feel resentment and even hate toward what has happen to them by their spouse. I have been blessed that so many of you have been kind to me in your words and your encouragement to me. I hope and pray that the experiences that you have had will not leave you bitter, cause that is not good for anyone to live like that. I made the statement last night, I think, that I did not want to live out my life a bitter and resentful old woman. I don't know anything that is much uglier than to see a woman like that!
So, with good folks like yourself here to keep on helping those of us that come here for our "dose of medicine" every night.....we will make it. We will keep trying and working it out and we won't end up bitter,hateful and resentful.
Thanks again, and please write whenever you can. I appreciate it.
Amy & Sandi,
Thanks, I needed guidance. I guess I'm not in the disagreeing mood with my W right now Amy, I've been told a thousand times by successful DBers to just listen and agree (as long as it doesn't deeply affect anyone) so thats what I did. It's no big deal I guess that our family night is shot down, my W is disappointing my S as well as me, she's getting pretty good at doing that, in fact she's a pro.
Sandi, it's a good idea to avoid my W for a while, I've found that I feel better when I don't see her or talk to her for a few days, and I'd gotten away from that by answering the phone when I know it's her, and she usually does come out when I pick up my S every night at her house. (I still have a hard time saying "her house").
Yup, my W mom has in my opinion left scars on my W that will never be healed, not blatant ones, but down deep it's affected her view of men, the old "they only want one thing" syndrome.
My W does not open up to her father very well, they speak on the phone often (both her parents live in Wales) but it seems strained to me in a subtle way. Her mom always is smiling and laughing, but she has a sour view of men, and it comes out in between the phony laughter.
Why is it that MIL are such a pain in the ass in general?
I know there are exceptions to the rule, but truly, if you took a survey, most people would say they get along fine with their FIL, but their MIL is a hassle in some way, shape or form?
I think we are all affected by our upbringing in future years. My mom died when I was 14, my father raised me and my 2 brothers by himself (I have two sisters, but they were already married). So I'm sure that affects me somehow. My father remarried when he was 61 years old to a 26 year old, I'm sure that affects me somehow too. But I do know I would never hurt anyones feelings.
Sandi, I am tired and I do feel like giving up, but I won't b/c it's not the result I want. I beleive what's meant to be is meant to be, so I guess I just gotta see how this movie ends.
Yes, you are tired and I know from my experiences that is not the time to try to make major decisions. But, I think the emotional and physical strain is taking a toll on you. You need a break. Perhaps you should consider what I suggested last time and tell your wife that you need to back away. She doesn't have to escort your son to the car when you pick him up or talk to you on the phone. She may leave a phone message, if necessary or email, etc. if she needs to contact you. There are ways to get around those conversations, but still need to have a way of contact for any emergency situation.....and just important things since the son is involved.
You would know how to approach this better than anyone else. You also know how she may react to it. Who knows, it may just make her sit up and take notice. I think if she did not see or talk to you....it would be good on both sides. It's hard to "go dark" when there is a child involved, but you certainly can work around seeing and talking to her. You may even have someone to act as a "go between" if you have to. But, not the son....he's already caught in the middle.
About MIL's.....yeah, mine was the MIL from hell! Of course, I am a wonderful MIL....just ask my son's wife! (lol) Seriously, she tells everyone that. But, I am very, very blessed to have her as my daughter-in-love (as I call her). I learned a lot from the MIL I had....by that I mean I learned what I did NOT want to be when it came my turn to be a MIL. So, I've tried real hard. I think the reason most people can get along with the FIL and why he gets away with being the "good guy" (in most cases....not all) is that women (mothers) get too involved with their children's personal lives after the kids grow up. Moms don't want to cut the apron strings and leave their kids to make their own decisions and mistakes. It's difficult, I know. But, I have tried extremely hard not to intrude into my grown children's business simply b/c of my experience with my MIL. I also learned from my folks b/c they were the type that did not tell me and my H how to live our lives and run our business. It's a good thing b/c we would have gone crazy and probably D if both sides of the family were telling us what to do and not do.
My heart goes out to you where the MIL is concerned.......I truly mean that. It can be hell on earth. It is just as bad when they are nothing but big phonies, too. Mothers have a big impact on our lives. Apparently, your dad did a great job raising his family. Speaking of my DIL, she came from a not-so-good home life. I really don't know how she came out with deep emotional scars.....and there may be some that I don't know about. However, in the past ten years that she has been my DIL, she has been so precious. So, people CAN overcome bad homes, bad parenting skills and divorces, etc. I think the death of a parent when you are a child is probably the worst of all.
How old were you when your dad married the young lady? Do you have a good relationship with your dad now?
Well, at least if you back away from your W.......that should include her mother as well (lol). That has got to help some!
Got to get back to work. Talk to ya later.
Luckily, I never deal with my MIL except for her annual 3 week visit, and 3 or 4 minutes on the phone making small talk when my W lived with me. It's not that she is evil, she's actually a nice person, but she has filled my W with unpleasant male stereotypes.
My dad passed away 9 years ago, I was 16 years old when he remarried, his wife was only 10 years older than me, and younger than 3 of my 4 brothers and sisters! Weird huh? Maybe not for my dad though!
I might lay back a little from my W, let my S get the phone again like I did before. You know she hasn't been mean or anything, in fact she has been really nice and sweet. But she is making it painfully obvious that she has no intention of making this M work (at least at this point in time I tell myself).
I also keep telling myself she has only been out of the house since 6/29/07 (70 days but who's counting). But I also tell myself for 5 months prior to that she treated me like a disease.
Does a WAW ever think they are making a mistake? Does it ever cross their mind that the LBS may move on, and then any chance of reconcilliation will be lost? I seem to know so many couples that have broken up, some for over a year, only to get back together. I am trying to find out what is going through her mind on a daily basis. Does she miss what we had sometimes? Does she miss our S while he is with me? (even though she see's him everyday after school until I pick him up, so he spend 2 1/2 hours with her daily).
Lesson learned for today, back away from my WALK AWAY WIFE!!!!!
(I was yelling there, lol)
Hey Sandi,
hope today is a better day for you.
Amy had some GREAT things to say to you! Totally listen to her
I have some extra things of my own:
Your feelings will always fluctuate. To make decisions solely based on "your feelings", is never a good idea. even mother theresa had "dark days", apparently.
If you "want to get excited about it"... you can. But here's the thing. it takes two:
One person, to say/do the things that make you feel good about things.
And one person (YOU!) to let that person know what to do/say to make you feel good.
If you figure out the things that make you feel good.. and you get your husband to do them for you.. it's practically guaranteed that you Will feel good
I think we know that one thing you need very much, is to be held.
So I hope you go ask your husband for that today.
I think some part of you is afraid that he
will.
Dont be afraid any more.
OOOoo! I just read this! Must comment!!
Even my H thinks so, but what he doesn't seem to know is that I need a lot of encouragement.....in about every way a person could use it. I may even appear to have a lot of self-confidence, but I need to be given a certain amount of praise or compliments from my H to "bloom" like a rose. Whenever he critisizes me.....it is like I rebell.
It is
SO GOOD that you recognize this about yourself!!
Now, the most important thing that you can possibly do to your marriage is:
Tell your husband this!!!
lets take the guesswork out of this. it's not that he "doesnt seem to know". I can tell you right now: he has no idea
Tell him. Not in an offhand, "by the way" kinda way. but sit down with him, and dont get up until you are positive that he
really understands how important this is to you.
And then be prepared to remind him occasionally
betcha this will help how you feel about him, if he follows through on it.
Some women have this bizzare attitude about their husbands, "Well, if he
really loved me, he'd just KNOW to ...."
Well, if
they really loved their husbands they'd tell him about it!
Yeah, it is kind of crazy how we women think men should just "know" what we need and what to do without being told. i think it goes back to that thing we have .....like when reading those romantic books, watching the romantic fairy tale love stories......it is like we think it will be like that in real life and it just ain't-a-gonna-happen! We want it so badly....you know, to believe in the fairy tale that our hearts kind of rebell on us to have to tell the man what to do. I've heard women say, "Well, if I have to do that, it will take the magic away." .....What magic???? It is either tell them....or forget about it every happening....period...over and out! I wish it wasn't that way, but it is, so we might as well deal with the reality of it.
I have actually sit down and told my H what I told you about how I needed the compliments and assurance to boost my ego and keep me going. I've told him about the starving flower and water/sunshine and how I will wither, dry up and blow away without it instead of blooming like a beautiful rose. Oh, he agrees.....but yet he is still waiting on me to do all the work. I guess I just am going through this "resentment" stage b/c I have always had to be the one to show any "action" in our marriage and I'm tired. I would like to see him get off his duff and do something for a change.
Well, I really am too tired tonight to talk very long. I am going to bed and I will talk to you tomorrow. Maybe i'll be feeling much better and have more energy then. That is the key with me.....my energy level.
Have a good night.
I've told him about the starving flower and water/sunshine and how I will wither, dry up and blow away without it instead of blooming like a beautiful rose.
oh dear. still too poetic (aka female
)
If he's not doing it, then he still doesnt get it.
Or.. he just doesnt understand HOW to do it.
seriously.
I guess I just am going through this "resentment" stage b/c I have always had to be the one to show any "action" in our marriage and I'm tired. I would like to see him get off his duff and do something for a change.
I can understand this feeling. it can be very, very frustrating if you are faced with a spouse like this.
Wouldnt it be tragic, if it was a lack of understanding, rather than a lack of motivation/effort, though?
Some people truely are lazy like that. but others (particularly men) are either clueless, or forgetful.
Maybe you'd like to give your husband a "test", to figure out what his issues are in these areas.
Men are usually "left brained".. they do best with VERY SPECIFIC instructions..
So how about this: pick something that is Nice for you, Repeatable, and Explicitly describable. Then approach your husband with the following:
"Honey... I believe that you love me... but sometimes, I could use something kinda tangible, to reassure me about it. I could really use it on a regular basis. If I asked you to do something for me (every day/two/days, whatever), do you think you would do that for me?
This is really important to me.. it would mean a lot to me."
Then, if he agrees, or wants more detail first, say,
"I would really like you to:
[wash the dishes/ take out the garbage/ rub my toes/ wash my hair/ SOMETHING SPECIFIC]
every day for me. I know it sounds silly, but please trust me, that if you did this for me every day, it would make me feel more like you loved me and that I was important to you. Important enough to you every day, for you to do this for me every day.
Would you do that for me? please?"
(bat your eyes at him a bit, etc...
)
Then see how he does. And see how that makes you feel about whether or nor his attitude is for you to "to do all the work".
I'm suggesting this, even though you specifically asked for compliments and assurance, because doing "compliments and assurance", for men, is
really difficult !!!
It takes a lot of time, and practice, and stuff, for men to understand how to do it. (like.. years?)
But meanwhile, i'm sure you could benefit from some "right now" kind of feedback, that your husband really wants to try to do good things for you.
So i think the suggestion above, might help in that reguard.
Be prepared to remind him occasionally!!
Or, maybe "encourage" him to set up reminders for himself somehow. because what's more important to you: to test his MEMORY? or to test his willingness to "work on things" for you?
Hope this helps
Sandi2,
You are beautiful and exciting, full of life let it out! Now go get your H. Show him love, give him time to forgive and you both will blossum together. Force yourself, take him shopping for nice clothes, treat him the way you want to be treated it takes time but I bet he will come around. You have to keep pounding until the wall cracks. As my son loves to say "you can do it daddy". He is 4. So I say you can do it Sandi2.
Sandi2 if I remember correctly right now it is up to you to do all the work. Not forever but right now it is! I am in the same boat, so get too it!
treat him the way you want to be treated it takes time but I bet he will come around.
oooo.. nice sentiment.. but.. I have to say it.. probably wont work. Speaking as a man... Men are dumb
And besides which.. you need to treat him as HE wants to be treated, to motivate him to treat you like YOU want to be treated.
First, you have to figure out how he is different from you, and give him what HE wants. Then, you have to let him know, how your wants, are different from what he wants. 'cause he probably doesnt have a clue about that either.
Treating him the way you want to be treated, will just irritate him, if that's not an interest that he shares with you.
This is very interesting. I agree with both of you. I have to tell you about my H. His love language is "deeds". He does things for me...like wash the dishes, etc. For years when he would do this, I felt like it was his way of saying that he didn't think I was doing a very good job as a housewife. In fact, I kind of resented it when he would do those things b/c I was taught from my mother that my housework was a reflection of me. So, I felt like a failure when he would do something I had left undone. He never said anything....being a man of few words. So I misunderstood for a long time.
"Words" are my love language and he doesn't do that very well. I starve for them! But, I am like those women I talked about....if I have to tell him to say the words to me...it looses the meaning! I don't want to have to tell him to tell me I am beautiful, smart and sexy! What good would it do for him to repeat my own words back at me? I did tell him that I needed compliments and reassurance. But....sorry....I'm just not going to tell him word for word what to say to me. I might as well look in a mirror and tell myself! I think AmyC had an idea along that line (lol).
My H and I are very different. I am a person of action. If I know the yard needs to be worked in......I get up early in the morning, get out there and start working in the yard!(or I use to when I was able to do that kind of work.) Now my H will have to drink about two pots of coffee and just LOOK at the yard through the window, as though he is studing the yard... for say.....ALL MORNING....before he finally gets his butt out the door. It drives me absolutely insane! How we have stayed together all these years is amazing to me. If he needs to go somewhere.....he will stand at the door between the front room and the kitchen, watching some stupid TV program he's not even interested in.....before he goes out the kitchen back door to the carport. He puts off doing every task to the very last minute. Know when he does his income taxes? The last day of the year........every single year! It drives me nuts! He is self employed and does not save any paper work to use for tax cuts, etc. Nothing! Our poor DIL had a baby in December and I told him not to do that to her this time.....wait til the last day of the year...(she is the only person he can get to do his taxes), but he did! BTW, I even told him I would be his "secretary" if he would just try to help me a little bit by giving me some papers......nope! Won't work. He isn't gonna do it. We end up owing IRS tons of money every year b/c of his ......well, what do you want to call it? I get mad just thinking about it. And, no, there is nothing I can do about it....I've tried. It is his business and he has to do the paper work....I can't. He never throws a piece of paper away.....except the ones he should save for tax purposes!
He saves every piece of junk he finds and brings it home and "dumps" in the back yard. It looks worse than Sanford & Son. I am so embarrased b/c our yard and house is the worse looking one in the neighborhood! We have had our worst fights over me throwing some of his junk away and cleaning up around the yard.
Now, this is the man that is always the "good guy" in every situation that comes along. Guess who the "bad guy" always is? You got it! I have faults and plenty of them......I'm sure he could list them quickly. But, my faults, of course, are completely opposite from his. (lol) That is what makes the world go around. However, it is these silly things we don't notice when we first meet, fall in love, and want to get married. How was I do know how he would keep our yard looking when we were dating? I'm sure it would not have mattered back then to me anyway. I probably would have thought...."Oh, all that will change after we get married." HA!
It is also these silly things that causes the wear & tear on relationships. I told him that I did not want us to become like some "old" couples that I have heard that yell at each other fussing and aguring over every little thing. We had almost reached that point.
So, I don't know.......we can read books, watch programs, listen to tapes, etc., but if our heart isn't in it....it just is not going to work out. You've got to have a lot of heart and (if you are married to a H like mine) a lot of patience and energy. My energy.....my "want to" ......is running low these days, so I need prayer and encouragement.
Thanks to you all for trying to help me. You have been so sweet to give me encouragement and advice. BTW, I do know what to do that he likes........it is just that I can't seem to get the "want to". That is my main problem right now.
I have been listening to "Light His Fire", which is very good, BTW, and it helps with other R's ....not just M. But, she mentioned that we should talk to our H's like we would someone we were having an affair with .....instead of being married to. Boy, did that get my attention. I know how I would have talked to the OM and I can tell you it would be with a different sounding tone of voice and most certainly different words and personality. So, you see, it all goes back to the "want to" in us. God, I need that "want to" so badly! I just can't seem to get the drive to make myself do it without the desire behind it.
I'm sorry for "dumping" on you today. Guess I just needed to vent. I am so tired at the end of a day I can barely do anything other than sit at this computer. Then, I usually fall into bed and sleep, get up and go to work, and do the same thing over again. I need to do something different. I need to do something just for fun.....but I don't know what it is and I don't have any energy. I tried going to town last Saturday, and had to turn around and come back home b/c I felt so badly. I had a rough weekend with my fibromyalgia. I think that has discouraged my H a lot more than he will admit. I have felt so bad for a long time and it has taken a toll on us in every way. I also have chronic fatigue.....but I believe some of that is mental discouragement and just plain old boredom. That is what got me into trouble to begin with......boredom. Not all of it is boredom, b/c there have been some things I really wanted to do.....like attend my granddaughter's K graduation and I wasn't physically able. I cried my eyes out. I have missed about every holiday or special occassion that has come around the past couple of years. I nearly lost my job b/c I missed so much work due to my condition. Thankfully, I have a boss that tries to be understanding of the situation. After a few times of missing out on eveything in life (or at least you feel like you are)...it is hard to fight the depression that tries to consume you.
I am not having a pity party.....even if it sounds like that. I am not using my physical condition as an excuse.....even if it may sound like I am. I am about to get use to people not understanding what it is like. But as with most conditions, we don't understand until we walk in the other person's shoes.
I have to talk about it sometimes to get it off my chest. I'm sorry if anyone gets tired of hearing about it. Maybe we should have a forum for people with physical problems along with M problems amd how to cope with it.
As long as I had the "want to" in my heart.....I was a tiger! I would fight for what I wanted and believed in. But now, I slowly feel the fight leaving my body.....and that kind of scares me. I don't want that to happen. I think people can beat diseases......and almost anything....if they have the "fight" and "want to" in them. That's what I want so badly...but it is like my body and heart just won't cooperate. By 3:00 every day my body is so drained I can't do anything. My poor H wouldn't know how to feel to come home to a cook meal anymore.
So, I am blessed that he is so kind and good to me and doesn't complain. A lot of men would have left me b/c they would have not put up with me not cooking, and a lot of other things some H's expect out of W's. He doesn't run around on me. He doesn't drink, gamble, go out with the boys.....nothing. (lol) He doesn't do anything! He DOES watch TV and go to church. That's about his life. I could have it much worse!
Well, I have burned your ears off long enough tonight. I promise not to do this every time!
Talk to me and tell me how you all are doing.
I just have to say AmyC......you sure are good for this ole gal!
Okay, guy and gals.........I have glanced back at some of your posts and my (ugh) posts......and ok! I am going to try something this weekend.....if God will help me!!!
I re-read what I wrote a few minutes ago and it just made me mad at myself! Here you all are trying your best to help me and I just keep putting the "poor me" excuses out there. So, I may not do much more than "bat my eyes" at him, but I'm going to do something positive....if it kills me! (lol)
Hey Sandi--you go for it! What do you have to lose? Bat your eyes, get creative...good luck.
Have you made a plan for the two of you and informed him of it yet?
Sandi: Your husband is of a different generation than these enlightened men here. It doesn't mean he can't change, just that he has to have his mind opened up and you're going to have to be the one to do it even if it requires a crowbar and the help of your adult children (I'll talk more about that later if something doesn't change soon).
Now make a plan and tell him to have his ass ready on time.
Amy
Hi everyone. Hope you all had a good day. I think I will just start talking and see what rolls out.....that could be dangerous!
Okay.....I'm going to get my mind in a "planning mode" for something fun. I did something that was a very small baby step....and you girls have to do it all the time, so you don't think anything about it. As I told you, I have not been cooking to amount to anything in almost a year.....seriously! Anyway, Friday night when I said I was going to do something if only to "bat my eyes at him"....well, I got off the computer and went in the front room where he was watching TV and actually forced myself to sit through about three of those stupid sit-com shows. I laughed and played with our little dog and tried to appear that I was enjoying it. BTW, by playing with the little dog...she is like a kid and wants both of us loving on her at the same time....so I got her between me and H and was loving on her. At least we could use the dog as a "go between" if it felt uncomfortable.
Then Saturday I had made some plans, but it fell through b/c I was sick (again) ugh! It gets me down when I am sick several weekends in a row. However, I did cook a simple dinner and had on the stove when he came in from work. He doesn't usually work on Saturdays, but did this weekend. He almost fainted when he saw a home cooked meal. I wasn't able to do much of anything else yesterday, but then I got up early this morning (Sunday) in time to get something cooked before leaving for church. Two days in a row......yeah me! (lol) The main thing I want to work on this week while I'm getting my mind in a "planning mode" for some fun stuff....is to keep my words and tone of voice sweet sounding. As I have stated lately, I feel anger coming from somewhere. I don't like it, but it keeps trying to spring up and get away from me. I don't know anything that turns my H off worse or quicker than for me to have a bitter or sarcastic sounding voice. I remember him telling me once that the first thing that attracted him to me (besides my big boobs) was my sweet and care-free personality. (He said that I used to have one....really!) Well, he hasn't seen either of those things (boobs or sweet personality) in quite some time. At least, I can try to recapture the sweet personality. Man! Maybe I shouldn't have said that......I mean there is just so much I can do! Oh well....
I am almost leary about setting too large or too many goals b/c then I get sick and that gets me down really bad. So, I am going to "baby-step" again....like I tried last time. So tiny, but it must be important if he notices. Even if I just do one little bitty thing each day...that I would NOT have done otherwise....it would be better than nothing at all.
I learned through a web site called "Flylady" that so many of us gals were taught that if we couldn't clean house to perfection....you know that old saying, "if you can't do a job right, don't do it at all"?......well, we weren't taught right. A little bit is better than none. Incorrect house cleaning is better than none at all. So, I'm trying to overcome some of those things that have been a mind-set for many years. I have to since I don't have the physical energy to invest like I use to.
I am concerned about this anger in me. I think I've had it a long time.....probably years and years, but did not know how to channel it or get rid of it......heck, I don't even know what it is all about. I seem to feel a lot of anger toward men and especially my H. Down deep in my heart....and I don't want anyone to know this.....but,I don't think I've been a happy person in a very, very long time. In fact, I can't really remember the last time that I could say I truly was happy for any lenght of time. You can't hear me saying this, of course, but it would not be a pity party thing......I am just saying this as "a matter of fact", trying to sort things out as I journal tonight. I have learned to grab happiness in snatches when something happens that makes me laugh or "feels good" for the moment. I agree to a large degree that happiness is a choice. However, I believe there are certain forces in life that can rob us of happiness.....also. That is probably debatable, but then look at all of us on this board. We may learn to make the most of our situations, but are we as "happy" as we want to be?
Well, goodness, I'm just talking around in circles tonight, but not really accomplishing anything. I hope this will be a good week for all of you. I hope I can make it to work every day. That is the first goal I have to work toward......in order to keep my job.
Anyway, I want you, my friends, to make me accountable for something. Because I think I need that. Well, I know you can't "make" me....but you know what I mean. Get me to tell you what I am working toward......the "plan". Bug me about it until I do something. I have just sat around on my fanny and whinned about it, but I have the power to change things. No...I don't have the desire and that is the hardest thing in the world to force myself....but that is why I need you friends to help me out here. Will you do that for me?
Would you believe that right now as I am sitting here writing this to you that my old flesh is crying out to me to contact the OM? Can you believe that? It makes me so mad! I'm not going to do it, so it might as well give up. The warfare sure can get weary at times. But I have come here every night to read and post and it has helps to keep me on the straight and narrow, but I need to spend time doing other things, too. Since I don't have the energy at the end of the day to do what I would like to do, it is just so easy to sit here and do.....this. I think my H is beginning to get a little resentful of me spending so much time here, even though he just watches TV! You know what I mean.
Thanks for always listening.....at least I can't see the ones that don't (lol).
What is the plan Sandi2? How are you going to accomplish it and when?
DomR You are right not only do you have to show us men, you also have to point it out numerous times. LOL.
Sandi2, if you get thoughts of the OM think about your H and family, about what you want to do with them. The security you can feel the love, watching your children grow up together. It worked for me, every now and then especially when I feel down, if it pops in there I kill it quickly. Overtime you will be able to also.
Hey there Sandi...
Sounds like you are being very brave, and positive, compared to a few weeks ago.
Good Job! I have a few words of what I hope will be encouragement for you:
First off, I think you are a Christian. So I will (re)mind you of something that He said, related to you saying the following:
BTW, I do know what to do that he likes........it is just that I can't seem to get the "want to". That is my main problem right now.
God call us to "love our neighbor" (and even more so, our spouses). But, He actually calls us to SHOW love, more than feel love. feeling love is good. but of the two, loving ACTIONS are the primary thing (initially anyway).
To take the extreme of enemies, He said "repay evil with good".
Not, "think nice thoughts about them." But actually DO GOOD.
reguardless of how you feel about them.
You already started to Do Good, with your loving act of cooking for your H.
That is so great!! I cant say enough of how wonderful it is, that you chose to take this step.
One thing that will help you with an actual "plan", is to not go too far, too fast. Dont fall into the "diet" trap, of going way overboard for a week, and then burning out. Eating nothing but celery for a week, is doomed to fail. So is making wellmeaning, but unrealistic plans like, "I'm going to cook for him every day!" Because you probably wont be able to stick to it, and then your H is going to be even more disappointed when it stops.
So,
what you are doing now, sounds to be just right!
Little steps, that you can keep on doing. (for the rest of your lives together!)
PS: as far as his side, and words.. how do you like poetry?
Maybe you might ask him to pick a short romantic poem/sonnet and read one to you every once in a while.
Now some cautionary words:
Would you believe that right now as I am sitting here writing this to you that my old flesh is crying out to me to contact the OM? Can you believe that?
Yes, I can.
and actually.. It is
expected.
Please realise this, and, knowing this, prepare for it.
Various marital counsellors write that it is because of this sort of thing happening, that you should never ever talk to him again, for any reason. Just delete any emails from him, etc.
Beyond that... I think that those yearnings will mostly go away, when your husband starts meeting your "emotional needs".
This also means staying flexible about your expectations of him. I think you already agreed with what I was saying, but I'll just remind you
you WILL have to actually ask him, to hold you, in order to meet your "touch" needs.
And you
WILL have to coach him, to meet your verbal affirmation needs!!!
Saying, "I don't want to have to tell him to tell me..." ...
"I might as well look in a mirror and tell myself!" ...
That's sabotaging your happiness.
HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT YOU NEED TO HEAR. HE IS NOT A MINDREADER.
(Nor is he verbally gifted. He's a Man. )
Lets put it this way:
if you want flowers from an average man, you have two choices:
1. tell him, "I'd really like flowers"
2. hope someone else tells him, "get your wife some flowers!!"
On valentine's day, you basically have "someone else telling him", through media advertising, etc.
Does that mean the flowers mean nothing, and you might have well sent them yourself?
It shouldnt. Because he still had a choice to send them or not. He chose to send them.
If you have to ask him to take out the trash, and he takes it out.. does it "not count" becuase you asked him? If you have to ask him to fix something.. does it "not count" because you asked him?
In the same way, when it comes to nice words to you, you have basically two choices:
1. ask for them yourself, and (for the first year, at least), tell him close to exactly what you'd like to hear
2. go hire/bribe/blackmail someone, to coach him to tell you stuff.
I'm deadly serious. No matter how much you wish for it,
he is not going to turn into a poet, just because you'd like it.He is
not capable of that.
He needs help.
So get over yourself :P and help him.
Then be happy when he
makes a choice to respond, and say things that you have told him make you happy.
If it helps any... i think it would be a concern, if you felt like he didnt mean it.
ie: telling someone, "tell me you love me every day", and every day, hearing in a monotone, "i.love.you.", doesnt do much good.
I'm guessing that it isnt actually the words themselves that mean so much to you, but rather, the sincerity behind them.
So, make sure that he understands to only say the stuff if he means it.
And then your job, is to focus on the fact that they may be your words, but it is his feelings behind them.
Sigh. more long stuff. should maybe put it in another post, but...
------------------------------------------------------
PS: try not to "force yourself" to do stuff that is intrinsically irritating to you. This is related to the sitcom stuff that you "forced yourself to watch". It's a bad idea to build up resentment towards your husband.
In my opinon, it's all about your state of mind about something, though.
Compare and contrast:
A) I'm going to sit here and watch these stupid things and pretend I'm enjoying myself... UGH I hate this.. that jerk had better appreciate what I'm doing for him!!!
B) I care about my husband, and I'd like for us to spend more time together. I guess I'll sit and watch some of those silly sitcoms with him right now. I'm glad they make him smile, and I'm glad to spend time with him.
It makes me happy, to make him happy.
(that last sentence is NOT to mean you should focus on only making him happy all the time. It's just to underscore the "joy of giving". The true spirit of giving a gift, is one of wanting to make the other person happy. If you're not doing something because you want to make him happy.. then it isnt a "gift" to him. It's something else)
I think you are doing great
hang in there, have patience, and enjoy the positive things
It's me again........
It has been suggested that I move over to the SSM forum. I almost did that before coming to "piecing". I think I will do that since my M certainly fits the "requirements".
So, if anyone is looking for me, that is where I'll be. I think I'll change my title up just a little to "I was almost a WAW". That let's everyone that I was the one who nearly walked away....not someone almost has one.
Come visit me there, but I hope I won't be over there too long...if you know what I mean.
Sandi2.
We are too old to think about D, etc. I am too old to start over....too set in my ways, probably. Today I am discouraged and think nothing will change and that I will have to accept this to be like this the rest of my life. I will never know what it would have been like to have an exciting sex life with another man. I will have to "settle" for whatever is salvaged from this M and just try to throw myself into church work like I always did.....my entire life.So, you are the oldest lady on the forum?
Like you, I think I should be past all this stuff and not have to post on a M forum. Me 63, M 39 years.
Why Settle??
I read most of the thread and can relate to your situation and even your H’s actions/in actions. I can see why you gave the advice you did over on the SSM forum. My screen ID is DIY/Do it yourself, meaning I have to do it myself and not expect much help form anyone else.
Earlier in the thread, a woman said get a sexy nitie. I will disagree with her advice for different reasons. Maybe she and 25 other women have good intentions, which is everyone’s usual MO (good intentions) but sometimes intentions don’t work IRL. The SSM forum had a night wear thread and most of the guys said Victoria Secrets nities didn’t have effect on them. One guy said a cameo soft cotton top was his ultimate turn-on.
I will suggest smelling extra good over looking a certain way. I would rather have my W wear a large cotton T-shirt and smell good than a see-through or supposedly sexy nite time garment.
Smell and touch does more for me, especially when the light is low or when I am in darkness.
"settle" for whatever is salvaged from this M and just try to throw myself into church work like I always did.....my entire lifeI work and my W=BB is retired. We had the “who cooks” problems too. I was doing most of the cooking and resented working all day and preparing the meals. It took a long time to convince BB that something simple was good enough.
If you can throw yourself into the church and you always have, I think that is why you are having some of your M problems. I know what it feels like to be 4th. Or 8th. on BB’s list. I will suggest doing more at home and putting the church activities 4th. or on hold for 6 months.
YES, Flylady. So glad you found that site. Several women and a few men have said the Flylady site helped them in various ways.
My comments are made with the intentions of helping and are not intended to be critical.
Reading your thread has given me some insights into my own M.
Lou
Lou,
Thank you soooooo much! I value your words more than you will ever know. Find me over in SSM now, b/c I need help over there. Was getting more responses there anyway. Maybe you can help me where my H is concerned.
Yes, I know what you mean about the remark regarding the sexy nightgown. When you are young with a firm body.....well Victoria Secret may be the way to go, but now I think a soft cotton top works better too...lol. Besides, it is more comfortable (lol).
DomR.....you crack me up! I mean that in a good way. Thank you so much for your encouragement. I needed that tonight. I always need that!!
Listen, you keep talking to me and helping me. I took you advice and moved over to SSM, so keep on keeping on.
BTW, I think you must know my H! You sure have his number! In all honesty......I think I have pulled him down so much. Bless his heart. He sure hasn't had much encouragement to say those sweet things I crave to hear.
I agree with everything you said and if it wasn't so late, I would respond a lot more, but I'll save it for another time.
Have a good evening.
Just to "finish this thread off" ... :-)
I will suggest smelling extra good over looking a certain way. I would rather have my W wear a large cotton T-shirt and smell good than a see-through or supposedly sexy nite time garment.
Umm... that's you. you're a woman. men are different!
Women are known to be more scent-oriented than men.
it still matters to us, but not nearly as much as for a woman.
Just dressing in "a large cotton T shirt" is a major turn-OFF for most guys, I would think.
(unless it's a short one, and effectively becomes a peek-a-boo "short dress", i guess...)
The SSM forum had a night wear thread and most of the guys said Victoria Secrets nities didn’t have effect on them. One guy said a cameo soft cotton top was his ultimate turn-on.
i dunon whats up with them.. those guys are just weirdos!
Just kidding
I think that SOME of them, could be very appealing. It depends on you, your guy, and the specific "nitie" in question. Not everything looks good on every woman.. and different guys, will think different ones look good, on the same woman.
It also depends on just how turned on your guy already is. Sometimes, "slutty" is just what the dr. ordered
... but otherwise, just dressing "cute", and being(behaving) feminine, and snuggly, is the #1 turn-on, I think.
Smelling good while snuggling, "kicks it up a notch"
but it's more the physical, than the olfactory, for men i think.
Oh. and your hair is really important to 95% of men too.
Earlier in the thread, a woman said get a sexy nitie. I will disagree with her advice for different reasons
Try reading in context.
I wrote that specifically TO her and FOR her when she was talking about not feeling desireable, sexy...etc....because once she feels it with her BRAIN, it WILL radiate outwards.
This part is more about her than it is him and my first concern is how she feels about herself and since what she's been doing hasn't been ratcheting up her self-esteem, I suggested she try another approach.
When Sandi knows Sandi is beautiful and appealing, her husband will see her through new eyes as well, but this IS just one aspect of the relationship that needs tweaking...
Amy makes a good point. So much is psychological and acting it, living it and believing it is what creates it.
Hi AmyC....oh don't mind me....I was just being "cute". My cotton nightgown has little buttons that open practically down to the belly button (lol) and drops off the shoulder just right to show off my large breasts. So, it's pretty sexy anyway. Almost all my gowns are pretty....even the more modest ones. But, I understand where you are coming from about how I feel about myself. I am trying to work on that. I was really mad at myself this morning when I started dressing for work. I have returned to eating again!!......and I could tell when I started trying to squeeze into my clothes. I refuse to gain back the weight I lost! I know I am eating out of depression and nothing more. The weight I lost was not under healthy circumstances....but I don't want to gain it back! I have issues about my body as it is and I know that has always been a problem with intimacy. I know my husband loves me and my size does not bother him.....but it does me. It always has.....even when I was a beautiful size (I didn't realize it) and I had issues about my body. I think my mother is the cause of that...but that is another story. She was always (and still is) the shape of a model. She was never......I mean never hungry, so she did not know how it was for me and thought large people were lazy, undisiplined, (and in my mind), I thought she also saw them as "worthless". You would have thought I would have grown up with an eating disorder.....but if I did, it just made me larger instead of skinny. But, anyway, like I said, that was a long time ago and I think she can understand a little better now. However, my own personal body issues comes from my inner self.....not my mother. But, going eleven years without intimacy can not be healthy for one's self-esteem. I started eating out of boredom and depression. I got bigger than I have ever been before. When I was using my webcam....nobody ever saw my entire body. Usually, my face was all that was seen by whomever I talked to. Of course, I ate it up (no pun intended) when they started with the compliments, b/c I was starved to hear all of those lies. After things started getting serious......you know (I don't want to get off into all of that)....b/c I lost any desire to eat, the weight started coming off. Fist time in my life I lost weight without dieting. But, that was not a good way to loose it. However, I am not going to gain it back again....I have to take care of myself. Besides, I am going to start using that lotion and potion stuff again...lol.
When I made the statement about the nightie, I wasn't thinking of you actually....it was something somebody else had said shortly after I had come on board....but they didn't know at the time that the last thing I wanted to do was have sex with my H.
I haven't thought of anything "fun" yet......for my plan. But, I will. Right now, I am baby-stepping. One day, I think we've done better and then the next day doesn't seem to be so good. That kind of knocks the props out of making plans to have fun. It sure enough knocks everything out of me regarding any thoughts of sex! I really am wondering if I will ever have feelings of desire for my H. It bothers me. I even told him that during one of our talks. He didn't say anything. I was crying so hard at the time I told him and he just looked sad. I have thought about going to C just for me....but to be perfectly honest....I don't really feel like it would accomplish very much. I guess b/c of a bad past experience with C.....I don't have a lot of confidence in most of them.
Well, lunch time is over and I've got to get back to work. come talk to me, AmyC...over in SSM. You know you lift my spirits.....and you seem to know when to give me a quick kick in my behind when I need it, too. (lol) I'll take whatever you want to give me, cause I know you love me. Can't help it, can ya? lol)
My cotton nightgown has little buttons that open practically down to the belly button (lol) and drops off the shoulder just right to show off my large breasts.
HOLY CRAP!
See?
Your inner tart is bustin' out all over!
I really am wondering if I will ever have feelings of desire for my H. It bothers me. I even told him that during one of our talks. He didn't say anything.
I know you were hurt at the time. and being honest.
But please remember, that is one of THE most damaging things you can say to a man. I think it's one of the worst things you can say relationshipwise, without crossing the line over into specifically attacking.
(ie: if you said you would never desire him,
because he's so ugly/whatever)
Please think of it this way:
It's about equivalent to adulterous spouses spewing, "I NEVER LOVED YOU! I NEVER WILL!!"
Hopefully, we both know that they arent being truthful about the first part, and the second part doesnt have to be true either.
They may feel that way at the time... but it's still horribly hurtful to say it.
Now, what to do, when you feel like doubting yourself and your desire for your spouse? :
I think one of the worst counter-productive things you can do, is get fixated on,
"I dont think i'll ever be turned on by you again!".
It's like wondering, "Am I ever going to get to sleep tonight?"
"well, I'm not asleep yet"
"still not asleep"
"gee, why am I not asleep...?"
You fall asleep when you quit worrying about it and watching yourself about it all the time, and just let yourself relax.
So, ...
RELAX ALREADY!!! heh heh. kidding.. see you over in the other forum