Patience, Love and (really) long suffering

Thanks all, for your input. Luckily the staples held and I didn't voice anything hurtfull or sarcastic. I've noticed that W's day to day attitude after work can swing dramatically. This is why I feel that perhaps a lot of our problems originate from some of her co-workers. A large percentage of them have lives that involve D, 2nd & 3rd marriages, custody etc...but they paint a good picture of how they are happier but battle all these problems and issues in their lives. Go figure! Especially after reading DR and DB it is amazing how I can pretty much predict attitudes and histories for these people.

Case in point of the theory, you are who you chose to associate with and emulate. If I had a choice I would get a second job and have my wife come home and quit her job, breaking the cycle. Unfortunately there are only so many hours in a day.

Thank you all for your support. WCW I look forward to a steamy report. Cat03 and Xuesheng, I'll keep my eye on my goals and methods today, let's see where this takes me.

I need some of those fantastic staples Phoenix, you are amazing by keeping your mouth shut when you are yearning to talk back to W, *sigh* I wish to get to that level of the game soon, Im still beating my H w/a stick while crying out "love me! love me!"

I SO told my H the same thing, you are who you hang out with (my H also had all this D people and others w/dubious histories of sleeping and drinking around)

We can only hope our Ss remember they aren't in high school anymore and don't have to follow the crowd or "fit in"

Because of much moving growing up, W has always tried to fit in or get approval, even now. With her current work sitch, she now has a group to try to get approval from. But like you pointed out, she might want to look a little closer to what she is trying to emulate. It takes a long time for a lot of people to realize that the party and sleep around crowd generally are not much to look up to or at when it is all said and done. I guess it takes the thicker ones a little longer to figure it out.

I was smart enough to walk away from it early, however the people who convinced me too didn't do so well. A few of them are dead, in prison, but none are really inspiring others to follow their life. Even my musician friends are very diciplined and poised. They even know every positive move has to be planned and executed. (And they are suppose to be the party animal image).

I hope in time your W sees this, my H too learned a few lessons. One time he did say how he couldnt' see how people would just fill their lives with drunken binges and that that was the core of their being, he had tried that, drink himself stupid only to get horribly sick later, realized it was pointless.

Hi Phoenix! How are the plans coming along for your road trip? Or, have you left already?

Thinking of you!

Trip was great. It was good to be back in old area again. The trip kind of got drug out, but I enjoyed the company and being away from the sitch. What this outing did remind me of was better times, earlier in the R/M.

I could really go for some answers right now, a very positive move. Can you tell me if there is a DB fairy. Find me a fairy!

Glad you had a good trip, Phoenix! Thanks for the heads up re my locked thread.

Following along with the theme on some other threads here I learned a little about not holding on to anger/resentment, not taking ownership of other peoples problems. Realizing that it is there own problems and not ours is very crucial. It has helped change my whole attitude the last few days. Not getting drug down into W issues certainly does make me a happier person, more my old self.

Trying to make it work for me too. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can......
Phoenix, thanks for not letting go of me. I appreciate you.

Not a problem, you are always very important to your friends here on these boards/threads. I don't know if you are a water skier but here's a little something to remember and think about. When you water ski you usaully start out cold in the water, feet caught in place, just trying to stay balanced and afloat with your head above the water. Your body is surprised by the cold and you are struggling just to deal with where you are. Then you hear the motors and then the struggle begins. Forces are coming you at every direction in what seems like a struggle for eternity. But as you start to get control of yourself you start to raise above the pressures and things smooth out slowly. Eventually you are above the water and all though you have control of your situation, you are still dealing with constant opposing forces. However, now you have control of the situation and it looks great, feels great and you feel the rush of victory through your body. Things couldn't be better.

Keep your tips above the water, lean back, use your strength and the opposition you are encountering to get you up to the level where you want to be. You'll feel incredible once you get yourself there. Oh yeah, don't sweat the wedgies, you can fix those when your up and in control.

Some disappointing turns of events over the weekend, but "as if", move forward and don't let her bring me down. I had a very insightfull discussion with an aquaintance about the whole M/D/R, especially from a spiritual side. That came at a great time, which lifted me back up.

Although I have been running under the radar here, I am following and learning from the rest of you.

It's so good to be able to bounce ideas off of people who are insightful, and spiritually minded. Sorry, you had some negativity over the weekend, but glad you are able to rise above it.

BTW, thanks for the email - I have been chewing the cud over your comments, and I am slowing digesting it. Forgiveness is important, but so is making an effort to right some of the wrongs made by the WAS who has returned to the M. It's all a balancing act, and how much each of us is able to handle, in the long run, I guess.

Stay well, Phoenix!

I was hoping the absence meant good things for you! It's a little hard to follow the bouncing red ball here but I am glad it came back up for you. Good work!

Perhaps we should recite some of the old given facts.

Listen to actions not words.

One persons actions will affect the other person, for good or for back, depending on the action.

Thought I better come back on and post. I'm trying to come up with a new 180 that I need to do. Perhaps I'll try to get some outside input. As far as outside activities, my plate is already too full, however I try to rethink priority.

Hi Phoenix_spark!

Have you come up with any 180's? If so, please share. Thanks for dropping by on my thread and I'll check in on ya later!

why a new 180, is what you doing now not working?

What I've been looking at is this. Positive results to current 180s. Have they really worked? Am I happy with where I have ended? Have these changes addressed issues that were causing problems before? Is it succes I'm seeing or just more appathy in the R? My goal is a stronger M not a recovered train wreck.

I think thing are headed in the right direction. I like some of my changes. A main challenge is riding out W's MLC. Am I up to the challenge?

Replace old GAL with newer GAL. Keep busy and focus on own issues.

are you giving yourself enough time for the changes to occur? are you overlooking the progress you've achieved so far?

Yes I have been giving it some time, but I find myself looking at it from many angles as I move away, to make sure I'm getting a true read on what I'm looking at. So far I think I've done pretty good, I just have to let go of some of the hurt and resentment. Remembering actions and words are two different things, is critical. I think W is learning that if you really look at what you plan on doing before you do it, it might not really be whay you want. I think it is also very evident that our decisions affect more people then we think, either for good or for bad. W has had to realize this and rethink her plan.

Been really busy with life and family. Enjoyed last night with the kids and friends. Really having to struggle with as if. To often I just want to say, "you need help, get help". But I'm sensible enough to let it ride.

Sensible is good. Full moon coming, let it ride is good too!

Been enjoying the holidays and events. Liked what Michelle said in her newsletter the other day. My latest approach has been, live life the best you know how, because there might not be a tomorrow for this M or family. No regrets. It kind of dawned on me the other day that a lot of W's issues has to do with stress/control/perfectionism. The fact that I'm not as much so, or that I don't let it get me down, bothers her. As much as she wants to seem easy going, she is the first to get her shorts in a bunch.

Oh well, I'm letting her own her own problems/issues. I'll just work on my own stuff.

Hi Phoenix! I think you're on the right track, letting your W own her own problems and issues. It's funny how, many people think that perfectionism, or being a perfectionist, is thought to be a positive trait. However, I find that people (and my H has this trait, but is not as bad as he used to be) who admit to being a perfectionist, just want things done their way, implying, of course, that their way is the right and only way. Kinda selfish and self-serving and controlling, isn't it? My H also used to like to be thought of as easygoing, but he was controlling in a passive-aggressive way, and always boasted of being a perfectionist. I wonder if this is a trait of all or majority of WAS's.

You sound like you're in a peaceful zone, within yourself, and detached from your W's craziness. Keep it up, my friend.

I think you hit that one right on the head. Am I at peace, yeah, I think so. I know I am doing all that I can and should do. The rest is up to execution and higher powers. Some decent interactions today with W. However the weekend looks like it could be a rough go. I'll just not let it get me down.

I find myself well detached and busy these days. Interaction w/W has been good. What could have been a very negative event, ended on a positive note. Not sure what it is that I have been doing right but..., don't want to get my hopes up either.

I think I see a little light at the end of the tunnel. W seems to be thinking and acting a little more like her old self. However, fear of relapse keeps me from getting to excited. But it's nice to see a positive turn. Some days I wonder if I'm DBing well, or just too afraid to act. Perhaps too good at "as if".

Might look for another 180, or something. Just trying to get/stay with the program.

Good to hear that there are positive signs. I hope this trend continues, and there is no relapse.

Baby steps, that's all we get is tiny tiny little baby steps.

But forward is forward

Xue

I'm enjoying the fact that some times I do get smiles and thank yous. But like anyone who has been through this before I am a little leary of what is really happening. However I am focusing on enjoying life, to not let her bring me down. Let's see where this goes.

Baby step forward. I am taking a this is what I need to grow approach and taking more focus off of her issues. This way I feel I am making those issues less of the equation.

well well, look what the cat dragged in

How's it going?

Best way to go, Phoenix! They are her issues to work on, not yours, so it's good to back off a bit. Goes to show, there is always something we need to work on, even when we think we're at a standstill, or in limbo, or whatever, 'eh!

I have noticed that I no longer react to when my H gets angry or irritated. The other day, he got all frustrated with his computer, and was stomping around, and muttering under his breath. I just said, "oh, that's too bad ... mine does that too sometimes, so I know how you feel", and left it at that. He soon calmed down. In the past, I would've allowed myself to get upset, and it would probably have ended up in a fight. Very proud of myself (she says, blowing on folded finger nails, hehe).

Take care!

Yep, the old Phoenix has been low on the radar these days. Somewhat because I have been very busy, some times just a matter of not knowing much of what to say or do. It's tough to try to help someone else when you feel like you are not on much better ground. Some days I can see what I should be doing and can be excited about life, others it's a matter of feeling like "hey, she can keep all this crap", but that goes away pretty fast.

It's kind of struck me funny the other night, too often in our sitch, especially in the beginning, W wanted to play things off as, " I don't like what you are, what you do and I don't even much want to acknowledge your presence". So I was sitting there watching a show, she can through once or twice, then when a scene came on she really liked she stopped, sat down and really got into it. At the end she stopped and looked over at me, like you do when you want to see that a person who is close to you (or good friend) experienced something the same way you did. I smiled back and with all my might I fought off the urge to say, "If we are so "disconnected", why do you care what I think or feel about what we just saw"? So I just sat there and acted as if. The more I watch W I know that it's MLC. But I know I won't be able to solve it for her, nor does she want me too. So I smile and just go along for the ride.

Love "as if", the phrase of the day, month.....

Lately I have fallen into a real bad need to fall into an old habit. Usually once a month I would buy my W flowers. Needless to say, it has been a while. I'm not even sure if it would be received well. So DB girls, put in your votes.

I was always one who believed that a hard working Mom and W deserved flowers, especially after a tough week. This was my way of saying I appreciate her, love her and want her to know how important she was to me.

Anyhow the lines are now open vote now and vote often.

I guess it's still a waiting game for you, Phoenix. Whatever you found, it sounds as if you are still in control of yourself, and detached. I know it's going to be difficult not to do the whole V-day thing (I am also an ol' romantic, but learned that my H isn't, and I can count on one hand how many times in almost 21 years of M that he has made any kind of effort for V-day - sigh). Here's a thought ... why not make a fuss of your D's. Buy them flowers, cards, chocolates, or whatever, and take them out to lunch (I don't remember if you have any sons, so if you have, take them with to lunch). Then, just do the dinner thing with your W, and give her a card.

Anyway, whichever way the wind blows, I hope it's not too cold a month.

Yes my girls would love that, I think that's a great idea. The boys would just want the chocolate.

Phoenix, be a little careful with your line of thought that W needs to rationalize or have firm ground to stand on to S/D. We can't understand what they're thinking, and in all honesty I don't think they can explain it to us if we asked.

A Valentines Celebration with the kids would be cool! you have some teenage daughters right? You could make them gush! Make everyone dress up a little, no ratty jeans or worn out tennies. A sit down place with cloth tableclothes, a little candlelight, real waiters/waitresses. Wouldn't that be fun with the kids? A good lesson in 'how I'd like to be treated in a R when I grow up.'

Or pie would be good.

So true about the lack of reasoning. Too often I forget to remember that there might not be any logic involved her at all. I do very much like your idea of V-day with the kids. Both of my girls will love that.

The rollorcoaster ride for the weekend was very extreme. Factor in being sick and you could imagine how happy I was to be back to work. Hardly can stay alert at desk, but at least I have peace.

Hey DB friends out there. I don't know if all of you are MTV fans but there is one show on there that has potential. It's the one where there is a girl talking to two possible dates. However, in a truck close by one of her friends is sitting there listening to the conversation and running it through lie detection software. Do you think they could set me up with the software, the truck and the friend telling me the results in my ear. I suspect that in short order W would pick up that I knew a lot more than I should, then shut down fairly quick. I'd definely want it video taped.

Just had to throw that one out there.

wow, i'm cable/satellite challenged, though that program sounds interesting. The things that people come up with!
One show that really got to me was the one (forget what channel, H and I were in a hotel when watching it) was about people being busted by their S while they were cheating. Talk about de javu! it was so sad, this guy just cried, seing picts and confirmation that when he was away his W would have someone over. Then, *horror* they'd sneak up on the unsuspecting couple and all hell broke loose. The guy jumped on the OP and tried to tear him appart. Needless to say it created a small crisis w/my H and I, he thought it was amusing to see that show, jeez.

Anyways, hope your W comes to the realization that holding and hiding the past isn't going to help anyone.

Oh yes, I've watched that one too. Isn't it amazing how most of them don't relize the parallel to them. On quite a few of them I am blown away by the lack of guilt or the ability to admit wrong doing. But, I guess as we have learned here, it's an alien your dealing with. There is also the being involved with someone you know is cheating on their spouse, what really do you expect will happen to you? I guess some people get more credit than they deserve.

To the cheating spouse (or, has cheated), their sitch was different to everyone else's. My H still doesn't recall half of what happened, or was said. I think it is a self preservation thing. I've also watched that show where the cheater gets caught, and it blows me away at how many of them blame their H or W or GF/BF for their cheating. I think there is some part of them that just didn't grow any empathy.

More mixed signals. Good ones today. Sharing of info that W might not have shared if she was full alien. The ride continues. What have I done differently today, NOTHING. Perhaps she just needs to own her own problems.

Phoenix, don't get on that rollercoaster. Stand on the side and let her take her own ride. You can't push the stop button any better than you can control the start button. As you said, let her own her own problems.

That's for sure. Things were sure a whole lot more simplier when we first met. Ain't it grand!?

Getting straped in for the weekend. Keeping my arms and legs in the ride.

Thinking of you, Phoenix! I got your email, and answered it, but then my computer shut down and I lost it. Ugh! I will send another reply. In the meantime, take care of yourself, and the children.

Hope the weekend turns out better than expected, and more than you hoped, but if not, then know you will be okay! Keep listening to that small, still voice. $\:\)$

We'll the weekend went pretty good. W seems to be fairly even keel and upbeat. The problem is I'm not quite sure what I am facing. Is it a change of heart, or just a front till "the hammer comes down". I'm hoping that there really has been a "re-think" of what she wants and we are on a uphill path. I feel that I have a better handle on my work sitch than my M. As much as things might seem to have improved, I don't know how much I can believe how things appear and the fear still stands strong. Luckily I think that it doesn't show, however I don't know how to really move back closer to W until she shows a first step.

This may sound odd but I do believe we can do this, however a C might have to get involved so that we can get better at communicating our feeling in regards to R. As much as I have tried to talk about it in the past, W has really not wanted to do so. The big hurdle I think is that perhaps she would rather "cut bait" than deal with the issues. Which as much as that might be an easy fix, I really don't want that to happen. There are still too many things I "like/love" about W that I would really feal a sense of missing and failure if they were to leave my life.

There is a bridge or stepping stone here that I need to find, but I just don't see it yet. I'm not the type to walk away, if nothing else, persistent to a fault. I told W when we got engaged that she was stuck with me for the rest of our lives and longer, some how I don't think she thought I meant it as much as I did. We'll I guess she knows better now. $\:\/$

Sorry about the rant, but I had to get some things out.

Phoenix, I feel a lot of what you wrote.
It very well could LOOK like it is easier to cut bait than to deal with issues. So how do you change that look?
In everyday life around your house, how much do you always do? do you shovel snow, mow lawn, gas up the cars, get the oil changed, take care of fixing the windows in the house, get the furnace checked, take care of kids while she's at work, and then be the gentleman and open the car door for W? Just a thought - how can you show her that life without YOU will not be easier than dealing with issues.

Persistent to a fault. IMO that's not a bad fault. Just don't let persistance be pesty.

The problem is I do all those things and alot of people recognize and appreciate that about me, however, the one person who's opinion counts doesn't seem to appreciate or care (most of the time). I am just getting very tired of being superman, but treated like not good enough. When I have asked what she needs and what is wrong, the answer (times past) has been, it's not you, it's me. What do you do about that.

(W) Not willing to communicate, not willing to change, not willing to deal with the issue, not willing to put the fault where it should be placed. I use to like making a big deal out of V-day. But right now I don't know if it would be a plus or minus if I did anything. Can't seem to catch a break. I don't want to stay in limbo forever, I've seen others in this path.

Well, then quit being superman! Are you doing all those things to win love? to get her attention? What I am saying is you do all those things and I bet she doesn't even realize what you are doing. So, stop doing it. Let her start doing for herself, let her take care of her vehicle maintenance, let her make the budget and pay her bills, don't save her from herself. Let her miss you. Is that a 180?

How did it help last year to make 2/14 special? Treat yourself, the kids, the dog (do you have a dog?) Believe me, I know how hard it is and how much it hurts to ignore and be ignored on Valentines Day, wedding anniversaries, even Christmas. But if what you've done in the past hasn't worked then it's time to change what you do in the future. You know what I do for ME now on VD? I take my mom for lunch. I still share my love with someone special in my life.

You seem stifled right now, focusing too much on W. Look in the mirror, focus on the guy you see there.

Focus and balance, all seems to be the challenge to this whole thing. I guess I have always been the type of person who shows love through service (amoung other ways), so to just stop that would seem very out of nature and taken as a bad sign. I don't want to give the appearance that things are back pedaling. For now I will continue to work on focus and balance.

Decided to do something off the cuff today with W, lets see how she reacts. $\:D$ Was just getting tired of same old change. I get a wild hair every once in a while.

jeesh, what a tease. Try to keep those wild hairs under the cuff. But don't keep us in suspense too long, ok? $;\)$

Will do. Just felt like I was stuck in the rut of the changes that I had made. Decided I would take a quick peak at a what should be a next step. Not a negative step, not a slam dunk either.

How's the wild hairs?

Had a major snooping backslide, however got it back under control. It was a real weird weekend, could have been a movie made out of this one. I'll catch up with you.

Hope there wasn't too much negativity found.

There was some negative, however, if it makes me step up and try to move this along in a positive manner, it should be for the better. It would sure be nice to be able to get something positive rolling here. Right now I am getting very tired with the wait and see mode. Hopefully we can get so decent effort by both of us. The tough part right now is trying to figure out if W is ready to put the effort into this.

Phoenix_Spark,

I am just checking in and have not posted to you for some time. My hopes and prayers are with you brother. Keep being a great person and your W should want to work it out.

Have patience, time is on your side.

Your friend,

PMA has been up and down today. Just when I want to put a line down and put my foot down, W does something positive. So I just wait and see.

It's been a little while since I was on. Some times it's like training wheels, I know this board is here, but I don't want to have to use it day in, day out. Overall things are positive, but as most of you know, your always kind of watching "your back". Quite often W will stop and talk to me, share feelings and schedules, where 3 years ago there was no way that would happen.

However some things have not kick back in, which is starting to worry me. I need to keep this ball rolling. The sun is shinning and I'm still alive, keep smiling.

Stay tough. Believe in yourself, I know how hard that is. Don't read too much into things as well. It is probably great that you are not here every day.

Thank for the input Allen, I do know that there are others on here that need me, so I drop in once in awhile. Last night I was discussing the whole sitch with someone who is familiar with my story. She made the comment that "I had made good/right choices" along the way as this ride has progressed. It gave me a good feeling that someone, who was not familiar with the books and this site, could recognize the good work I have done since this began. I don't think I have not made mistakes, however they have been very minor.

Things are going generally smooth. W is not feeling well lately, some of the crud going around, she still has been very decent to me. I think she is starting to share more with me and include me more with what is going on in her life. No we're not out of the woods, but I think there is positive steps going on.

OK, looks like it just journalized in someone else thread. So, I figured I better come over here and put something down. Keeping very busy. Making new freinds and associations. Having lots of fun.

New friends and associations, positive steps, lots of fun. We're finally getting it, aren't we?
Keep your eyes on the horizon.

Keep doing what you're doing, Phoenix! $\:\)$

Trying to line up a weekend where we can get away and discuss what is going on. So many thoughts, I'm so unsure what to do. Perhaps need to sit with a C before I do that. I need some change but I don't want to drive her off either. There has been some efforts by W, however I don't know if it's just trying for a better atmosphere, or trying to make things better.

Maybe what puts us where we are is a fear by both parties to deal with things head on. I find I am either an "on or off" type person when it comes to that. When I am on W sees it as controlling. W likes to feel that she is in control of her sitch, even though when it comes to M/R she does not know how to address things. When I try to jump in and save the day, it's seen as manipulative, but if I do nothing it's seen as apathetic. Kind of a no win. We need to see a C, but how do I present it?

Ha, so you are accused of rushing in to save the day too? jeesh that still stings from when H said that to me. I suppose he was right (IMO defensive because he knew I was right), but um, the cows are in a heat cycle NOW, you haven't taken care of this for months, and you want fall calving not winter calving so yes I rushed in to save the day and got a bull here. Sorry Phoenix, can you tell you struck a n-e-r-v-e?

If you are ready, I suggest you go see a C for yourself. You might get fresh perspective and ideas. It doesn't need to be a secret, when W finds out she might be curious enough to join the party. It could push her off the fence, and you've got a 50/50 or better chance she will land on your side.

Yes, I'm going to have to get the ball rolling next week to get this happening. Since $ has been tight, this has been put off. However, there is another path I can take, that will take care of that. If I don't do something soon, we will be stuck on the fence.

This week I finished a major project, on time and everyone was very pleased. Do you think I got a word of praise from W? No, but I did catch her taking a picture. Doesn't want to show her hand I suspect.

180s

Stay on top of projects.
Showing a little of the old friskiness.
Do major stuff around house, especially when not asked.
Handle things that require public interaction which W hates.

No negative responses to 180s, so I guess I'll call it a good week.

Been hitting most of my goals, very well if I say so myself. Got something finished that has been on the fence for over a year and a half. Also got out and had some good out of town fun. Also, had a statement from W that would indicate she sees us together in the distant future. That totally blew me away. I had to maintain a stone faced poker face on that one. She didn't look to see a response on that one, but I wasn't going to risk it.

Off for another family trip this weekend. Lots of good vibes, but not quite where it needs to be yet.

Nice. It's good to hear 'nice' stuff.
Keep your eyes on the horizon....

This has been the most positive you have sounded in a long time, Phoenix. I hope it continues, getting progressively better with your W. Good for you on reaching your goals and finishing that project. $\:\)$

Just checking back in. The trip went well, some positive R stuff going on, however there seems to be erratic mood swings that kind of have me wondering. I might have to take some notes, see if I can make some sense out of this. Perhaps a C can help me put a better "handle" on this so that I can do something about it.

Been trying to be more assertive with what I want, but not coming across as controlling. I don't seem to find that happy ground in the past, especially since W didn't want to feel that she had lost control of her life. When things are unorganized or go wrong, is when she seems to get upset easily. Just voicing thoughts and ideas.

Positive R stuff and erratic mood swings - I interpret that as the push and pull of WAS emotions. That's a good thing, right? Remember - love and hate is better than indifference.

I guess I get tired of the "everything that is bad must be your fault, therefore if I get rid of you all my problems go away". She a little young to believe that, but that would be the best way to describe things. However, she seems to be growing away from that. Some interaction is as it should be, two way, light talk, positive/happy attitudes. Then there are other times when I walk in after work, after seeing her for 5-10 minutes in the morning and her attitude is as if I had done something wrong.

However I remember, post bomb, how nothing could even get a positive raise out of W. So at least I would say things are generally positive. What throws me is that all though I feel positive movement, the horizon seems so far off.

Remember there are a lot of the world that goes into making an attitude, good or bad. It isn't necessarily you. I fell into that trap way too often with H, thought it was me he was crabby at or about and turns out I was way off the mark.

Come on Phoenix...straighten up in that saddle...keep your eyes on the horizon.

Thanks, I was very tired and stressed yesterday. Today is a little better. When I get stressed sometimes I don't hold the reigns too tight, kind of withdraw till the storm is over. Unfortunately, often this is when W is coming home from work. W works in a clean and highly organized surrounding, so this can often tick her off.

The tough part for me is how well she can treat the kids, but have little tolerance for me. All though this has gotten better, I am tired of being under the microscope. When I was younger, when things would get out of control, I would go off by myself and come back later. Because of responsibilities I can't do that any more. But I can sure see how you can become a WAH. I think maturity and responsibility have been a key factors for why it hasn't happened yet.

Reading through another post on this site, I wonder if there is some abuse in W's past. There seems to be some common threads. Not sure I want to delve into that one without a C.

Just another sun-shiny day

I get the impression sometimes, Phoenix, that you are walking on eggshells, and whiteknuckling it through this tough time in your M. My only advice is to try and still be true to yourself and your particular personality (and do what you feel will relieve your stress without hurting anyone as best you can). We cannot go through life allowing our feelings and hopes and dreams become so subservient to another, that we lose ourselves. This is a lesson I am still learning.

I know, though, how hard it is when you so much want things to be the way it should in a good and healthy M. You end up making a lot of compromises ... for the sake of the children, or the sake of peace, or because it's expected of you as PH in the church, or out of sympathy or guilt, or whatever. I have been married for a long time, and have made so many compromises, that I'm not even sure what I truly want or believe anymore, and it's really hard to face myself and work on rectifying a lifetime of cowardly choices.

I gave a talk at church this last Sunday, and the subject was the Atonement. It went better than I hoped. I think the part I have below pertains to our struggles in our M's, and how we can have a different perspective. I am still learning, and the spiritual journey is part of it all. Near the end of my talk I said (and this really came from my heart):

"Every day we struggle to do the right thing, to make correct choices, make ends meet, be good examples, and basically do the best that we can. Sometimes, though, things don�t turn out the way we expected or hoped. But, in turning our minds and focus on the eternal aspect, we can see beyond the mundane activities of our lives. I challenge myself, and everyone to continue to seek out the Lord, to find the spiritual connection to our Saviour, and know that this life is just a small moment in eternity. We start our search (I believe) in the garden of Gethsemane."

That's really good. Sorry I didn't respond earlier, time constraints. What you said in the last paragraph was very powerful, hopefully it touched someone in the audience as well as it touches those of us here. Lately I have been patient, but still asking for (most of)what I want. W seems to be thawing out a bit more as time passes, not assertive, but not resistive either. I'll take this all as a positive. My take on this is that W is starting to see that what she had was not that bad, added to the positive changes that have occurred, it all works better than before.

I was able to handle a major undertaking that before would have required outside help. W also is getting better at accepting and overcoming problems, owning up to her share of it. Also, I think she is starting to see how supportive I really am.

Weather is great here, I'm going to go outside and "get er done".

Having a hard time buying completely into the positive changes. The bad have been going on for so long and with such conviction, that I'm not sure if W is really changed or just leaning differently on the fence. I really don't want to set myself up for more hurt. I am glad to see positive results, just not positive on how to handle them.

I know how you feel, Phoenix. I am rooting for you. My M seems to be headed for the dumpster again. Ah well!

Take care.

Our date this weekend is dinner out and Saturday night SC session. Let's see what is said in regards to our favorite topic. Right now I have been listening often to what was said at Saturday morning GC in regards to the big D. We too have a new B, however I have known him for a few years and he is a good man. Let's see how he handles this one when I approach him. I will attempt this weekend. Let's see if I have the courage to do so.

Too many abbreviations, I am confused. SC, GC, B. I know D.

How was the weekend and your approach?

Good luck, Phoenix. I am thinking we might need to chat to our B, too, but H seems reluctant at this time. He is spiritually not there, I guess. Nor am I really, but I am willing to try anything.

Things went fairly well. Dinner went well and yes the topic of the day was well addressed. Chat went well and good council was given. There was a little rough spot through the weekend, but things have gone well since. A discussion with a friend brought some encouraging things to light, perhaps something I did not recognize before now. The main point I learned this weekend is, "work on self". Not a new theory here, but a strong re-enforced idea which is once again driven home.

Hi Phoenix,

I stumbled on your thread a couple weeks ago (I've learned so much from the good people here in Piecing) and realized that I share a common background with you and BeingMe. Just wanted to stop by and say hi and send my best wishes.

Funny how the things we really need to learn and do aren't new...they just get lost in the craziness of life so easily. Good luck with working on yourself and your M.

Aud

Thanks for stopping by, hopefully what I learn in this struggle will help others along the way. This weekend I got to sit with a friend and talk about the power of conscience and guilt. He pointed out that perhaps the main struggle right now might be that W is trying to balance what the HG/guilt is telling her and what society is trying to draw her down with. All though more "light" can be seen in her demeanor, it is a day to day struggle. She is fighting to decide what is better F/M or path of least resistance.

Luckily, I think there are those who have been down this messy road before, who are taking her under their wing and giving her the reality of what is wrong with the path of least resistance. Hopefully they will be able to get their point across. How about giving me a link to your latest thread so I can read up? As you can see I've been in this for awhile, fortunately I have this site this time through. Long story, maybe another time.

Ugh. Sorry you've been dealing with this for so long. I hope she finds her way.

Here's my current thread .

Thanks for the link, I'm getting up to speed on your sitch. Hopefully I'll be able to give some decent advice.