Okay, another thread locked. Here's my usual recap for any newcomers:
My story: I'm 48, H 44, married 20 yrs. together 22, 3 kids S18 D14 S13. Backstory - night before our wedding old girlfriend seduces H. He spends next six months mooning over her and wondering if he made right choice. I know nothing until I find his journals six months into the marriage. Try to throw him out but he pleads. Eventually after I move to another city to continue my education he decides to recommit to marriage. We are happy, start family, life is good.
8 years ago I develop overactive thyroid, become spacy, loss of athletic capabilities, fatigue, gain 20 lbs.,etc. For various reasons pursue somewhat ineffective course of treatment until 3 years ago, disease flares up and am too fatigued and confused to continue working. Give up and take drugs for it (which have small risk of fatal disease). Numbers look normal but I never feel normal. After two years on drugs, make decision to kill off thyroid with radioactive iodine, become severely low thyroid after, takes 6 months to get thyroid replacement dose adjusted to proper level. Start feeling normal Nov. 2002.
H initiates MC 2 years ago. We go weekly but sessions seem focused on all his dissatisfactions with me and our mutual childhood abandonment issues (my father died, his mother left family in MLC). Things get worse.
Nov. 2002 - I'm finally starting to feel better. I find Michele's book. 2 days later H drops the bomb, ILYBINILWY. Spend November and December DBing madly. Because of improvement in thyroid condition am now able to work out and lose 20 lbs.H gradually warms up to me sexually, still no ILY's.
Dec. 29 - H wakes up early to "journal" then go surfing. Actually says ILY for first time as he leaves. Then I find his journal writings on the computer and discover: he started an affair one week after saying ILYBINILWY with a girl he had just met a couple weeks before. While we were on ski vacation before Christmas and having a great time together, he was still getting up and writing fantasies about happy second marriage with OW. H is planning separation. Kids find out, H comes home to tears and devastation all around. H tells me affair ended Thanksgiving weekend and OW moved out of town 2 weeks ago.
Dec. 30 - I announce to the board my intention to climb Mt. Whitney - to give me a goal to focus on outside the marriage and to celebrate my return to physical health.
January 2003 - H becomes very depressed after affair is discovered and seeks immediate psych visit - started on Prozac and individual counseling. Spends first three weeks of January very depressed - my concern for him overrides all else.
Last week in January, H still plans to move out Feb. 15, but starts to argue with me about child custody arrangements. I offer extremely generous visitation and buy myself a new bed because I don't want to sleep in old one with his memories when he's gone. Arrange for Feb 13th delivery.
Last weekend in January I go out of town on business trip with him for 2 days - seems a little better. H has insight with counselor about "longing", about how keeping one toe out the door in our marriage in case that "perfect" woman came along was a defense mechanism against the possibility of me abandoning him.
Next weekend - H actually feels happy! Is prozac kicking in or are insights from individual therapy kicking in? Unbeknownst to me, OW has been calling and emailing him throughout this past month. He is still drawn to the fantasy but starting to recognize her manipulative and self-centered side.
Second week of February - H informs apartment manager he is not moving in. Buys me red roses for Valentine's day and writes me a beautiful poem. Tells me ILY for Valentine's Day. We sleep together in my new bed. We go camping that weekend with kids and have a marvelous time.
Rest of Feb. - OW is still contacting H although he has asked her (not very forcefully) to stop. H finally tells me all this. Things between us are improving. He decides to write her a definitive "Don't contact me anymore" email but dawdles over it for over a week. I finally lose my patience just as he's coming to peace with the whole thing and letting go. We work it out. Go away on business trip together and ride hot air balloon over the desert.
March - I get my permits to climb Mt. Whitney. H is going to be my guide. We're both excited. I love him and he loves me. R is better than ever. He appreciates my strength and unconditional love when he was so confused. I know I wouldn't be here if not for Michele's books and the love and support of everyone here on the board.
June – we climb Mt. Whitney together! Our love is strong, although there are still issues to work through, but we are learning how to be more productive in how we deal with them.
Well -that's it. Unfortunately my original postings all got erased one day by accident, so I had to start using a different account, but I used to post as toughenoughforlove. I think most of February is in the Valentine’s Day – is it a massacre? thread.
Post Game Analysis
What I did right:
Act As IF - glass of wine, dancing in the kitchen to Tom Petty with beautiful meal prepared every night when H returned home - tried to stop reacting to his moods and just be in good mood myself.
Notes - kept index card with note in pocket - 180, act as if, do something different
Beginner's mind - let go of preconceived notions and tried to approach everything with a "why not?" attitude. This was also a 180 for me.
Validate, validate, validate - thank you Soup. Tried not to present my side but just validate what H was saying. Hardest thing I did but one of the most important.
Worked on myself - appearance, fitness, conscious living - at least other people were saying I was beautiful even when H wasn't yet! Didn't do it for H, but athletic companionship very important to him, my willingness to try new sports was something he really liked.
Loving detachment - got out of my defensive posture and let H's problems be HIS problems, not mine. Quit believing it was all about my flaws. Realized I could not control what he did, could only control my actions.
Act, don't react - tried to break cycle of reacting without conscious thinking first.
Emotional aikido - when I finally stopped fighting H on the separation is when he started to rethink it.
Sex - in this situation I refused to let our sex life die. May not work in every sitch but was important factor in ours.
Focused on baby steps.
WHAT I DID WRONG:
Too much pursuing in the beginning.
Fought the separation in the beginning - didn't respect H's need for space.
Started to get into a little competitive space last week about the OW when I was getting impatient about the email; H really needs to see me as better than her and she is not worth my energy.
Worried too much about things that never ended up happening - don't borrow trouble.
BOOKS THAT HELPED
DR
The Five Love Languages by Chapman
A Year of Living Consciously by Gay Hendricks
ADVANTAGES I HAD
Coincidental return to physical health at just the right time.
H willing to see psych finally for his depression and start Prozac.
H finally having insight into his own issues and able to see it wasn't about my imperfections.
This board and its incredible support.
Affair was already "theoretically" over when I discovered it.
OW had moved out of town before I discovered A.
H is basically a good guy whose needs weren't being met and had a crisis because of it.
H's friends supported me and pushed H in right direction.
I found Michele's book right before the bomb dropped.
H lucked in to a pro-marriage individual counselor.
I mention these last things only so that those of you whose situations are not turning around as quickly will see that I had a lot of fortunate coincidences on my side. Patience and Discipline needs to be your motto.
Good luck to everyone!
Ellie
Postscript - Jan 2004 discover D13 has developed anorexia and bulimia. Applying all my DB skills to dealing with her illness.
PPS - September 2004 - D13 has started high school and is in recovery from her eating disorder, doing very well.
PPS - January 2005 - D continues well in recovery, despite a few bumps in the road. H and I continuing to do well.
Ellie
And the link to my last thread:
Valentine's Day Massacre
And now for a real post -
Have a close friend who is related to one of the Go-Go's, he got us some free tickets to see them in concert last night (great seats). It was a blast! For a bunch of forty-something women (only 3 or 4 years younger than I am), these women still ROCK. If they are coming to your town on this tour, splurge on a ticket for yourself - you won't regret it. If they aren't coming to your town - pull out that old copy of Beauty and the Beat (I know you have one!) and crank it up.
Ellie
Ellie,
I'm so glad you had fun at the concert! It's great when over-40 somethings like ourselves can get out and still "shake it up" a bit, eh?
I would like to ask you a favor, since you are one of the most respected DR's around here.
I've been getting some frustrating feedback on my thread the past couple of days. I was wondering if you would please drop by, read my posts from the past few days, and share some of your insight.
Essentially it boils down to my T (non-SBT) and posters on my thread advising me to go dark when what I'm seeing working really well is being open and available to SO (sticking with "doing what works" philosophy of DR).
Any input/insights you might have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
P.S. Am I technically "#1" since you are the only other one who's posted to your own thread???
The Go-Go's sound like so much fun to see! I will watch for them in case they come here.
Hi Ellie-
You've stopped by my thread over in MLC forum and this is the first that I've actually seen your whole summary. I have to say that I am jealous with how quickly your H moved through the OW phase.
Question for you- did you just let your H initiate any R or OW talk? I've been dealing with the on-again, off-again OW situation since Nov 2003 and have not brought up the topic since March of 2004. H did confess in July 2004 that he had been seeing her "casually" after his confession in February 2004. And then he seemed to stop but I had suspicions until November 2004. I've seen some questionable behaviour in the last two months that worries me that there is something up again. (you are right, my sitch is a lot like Deb's and I wonder whether I need to lay down the law also)
I really think that at some point we need to talk about our R (I don't need to hear much about OW) in order to progress forward. He is a chronic confrontation avoider so I worry that waiting for him will never happen.
Thanks for continuing to post and offer guidance. It really helps!
WN
Hie Ellie - I still get inspired reading your re-cap.
Slowly
Whoaaa... now there's a group from the past I haven't heard about in a long time.
The Stones are coming to the area in September. It's been 15 years since I last saw their "Big Steel Wheel Tour"... think I'll try and see them one last time.
You're an amazing DBer Ellie and a great person. ...Soup
Yahoo!!!!
I am posting to you from my laptop with its newly-installed wireless card!
I have this old laptop that used to be H's (Windows 98!) and someone gave us a wireless card that they no longer needed, so H thought he'd bring me into the 21st century by installing it on my laptop. When I left the house tonight I had been having trouble getting the downloaded drivers to work, but while I was out this evening, H got it working for me
Now I don't have to fight with the kids for the main computer when I want to check the bb!
Ellie
ellie: debcb and I have a question for you because you are so full of info and have done so well in your sitch. Do you know why (other than medications because it does not apply) our H's cannot "finish the Job" so to speak when ML? My H and I have been having this problem since he came home over 3 years ago and Deb's has been having it recently. My counselor seems to think it is anger. What do you think.
I apologize for hijacking your thread but we both could use and thoughts you might have here.
thanks
debra
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Yahoo!!!! I am posting to you from my laptop with its newly-installed wireless card!
This means you can take your laptop when travelling too. Most airports have wireless hubs these days
Very cool, Ellie! I'm jealous!
I can't wait to go wireless myself.
When does son come up to UCB?
SG
Hi Ellie..
Cool job on the wireless..I need to get one of those!
Hey, I just read your recap on your old thread. Wow,good for you about climbing Mt. Whitney..Way to GAL big time.
I think you have cruised my thread a time or two..
I have gone dark for a week. Never have done that in my entire 15 year relationship with H. I mean, ignored him.
Just curious, if you get a chance, could you read my last few posts. I recapped my sitch over the past eight months and it is truley nuts. Was wondering if you thought going dark would be the right move or not..
So sorry to bother you with my troubles. You give awesome advice and I am kind of at a loss to what I can do right now.
Thanks, Ellie..You power DBer you!!
xoxo
PAtti
p.s. I am over in MLC forum..
WHOOPS!!
Ellie, I hunted for you when your previous thread locked up -- just wanted to tell you that I admire your level-headed and fearless advice. Your patients must be very, very fortunate to have you.
You've got the beat,
Michele
Goodness!\\I come back from the weekend and I've got posts!
Debra - the sex thing, probably isn't personal ( about you). Depression can cause all kinds of problems with libido. Alcohol can do this. Aging can. And frankly, I've often wondered if some of the MLC guys aren't experiencing a drop in testosterone before they go off - like they are startiong to notice some drop in desire, and have to go seek the novelty of an affair to "pump them up" so to speak.
SG - son moves in around August 23. He goes up for orientation July 15 but I think we are sending him alone for that. We'll also be up for parent's day weekend Oct. 1. But what I really need to do is arrange a weekend to go visit him by myself, and see all my DB buddies at the same time
He graduates this Thursday.
MTN - I'll be over.
Thanks,everyone, for the compliments.
Ellie
HI Ellie!!
Good morning!! Hope you had a great weekend!!
No rush..Went dark..I think it is working for me!!
I am still soooo impressed about your mountain climbing!!
Inspires me!! I was just proud of myself for going back to the gym last Thursday!!
xoxo
MTN
ellie:
Thanks for your response re: the sex issue. I hope it is not me but he makes me feel as if it is. (apparently he had no problem with OW. She is ugly but thin) He says he needs me to be thin as sex is very visual for him. I dont think I will ever be thin, healthy is the best I can hope for. I have always been chubby even when we first got together and the combination of having two children and a very underactive thyroid have done me in. I take my medication every day, go to the gym everyday and watch what I eat but all I have really been able to do it stop the gaining.
You have mentioned in earlier posts that you too have a thyroid problem. Do you know of anything else I can do? I have taken every diet pill known to man, read every book out there and have tried every diet program there is. My doctor is just not a very informational kind of guy who tells me I can fix everything if I just "Run". My Gyno says that is fine if I want all my insides to come out she says walking, biking eliptical are all fine. (I am 45 and have had loose bladder and uterine issues)
Thanks for your time Ellie. I appreciate it. If you have any suggestions I would appreciate hearing them. My thread is over on MLC under Debra. I am journaling there to try and see if that will help me decide what direction I want my life to go in since nothing else is helping.
Oh, Debra, I hear you on the weight and thyroid thing! Right now I have 20 lbs. that just don't seem to want to get lost.
Some things to try -
- first, make sure your TSH is below 2. "Normal" in the lab is usually 0.4 to 4.5 or thereabouts (varies from lab to lab) but the endocrinologists now consider a TSH above 3 to be possibly abnormal, and infertility doctors know hypothyroid patients conceive more easily if they keep their TSH between 1 and 2.
- you could try a combination of T4 and T3 (Synthroid - or levothroid - and cytomel). I am currently trying this - I can't say if it has really made a difference in my case, but apparently it really helps some. The best book on this subject is The Thyroid Solution by Ridha Arem MD.
- I do find I personally do better if I eat more protein and less carbs. Weight training also helps although it is a bit of a catch-22: I can't seem to build muscle when my thyroid is out of whack.
My H is really visual too, and he is completely unable to understand why I still have thyroid issues if my lab numbers look okay. Makes me feel like a neurotic hypochondriac if I even bring it up. Just went down that cheeseless tunnel with him again the other day - when will I ever learn????
I hear you, though, and share your frustration. If I come up with the magic answer, you'll be the first to know.
Ellie
S18 graduates today!!!
I'm so proud of him.
Won't be on much the next few days - houseguests and all.
Ellie
Woohoo! Congrats to S18 and to the proud parents!
Sage
Congratulations to S18, Ellie, and to the parents who gave him the tools to get him where he is and where he's going!
Jennifer
kml, would you read this thread and give your opinion about it
Thread ="view from the other side" topic=Thyroid testing and diagnostics Thanks. I value your advice and read many of your posts to other DBers.
Lou
kml Thanks so much for posting on SSM, "Thyroid testing and diagnostics"
Like I say, I read your posts and especially what is going on in your family. I feel like you have better solutions than I think of and get better advice from others than I have to offer. That is the reason I don't write or give my opinion on your thread.
I don't consider myself unknowledgable, but I know when not to say something, especially around people more knowledgable than me.
Thanks again,
Lou
Ellie,
Congrats to your son and you of course! I hope you enjoyed all the festivities and the family time. I know it was a blast for us, and I remember how proud I was.
I wanted to say thank you for being a loyal friend and popping in on my thread here and there. That means a lot.
Not many of the old crowd around anymore. So why are you and I still here? LOL.
I don't care. This is still home to me, and warm place to come back to now and then. You know what I mean?
Well, I'm FINALLY going to bed (I think. I keep saying that on each post, but I haven't made it there yet.
)
See ya!
MAL
Hey there, Mal!
Well, grad week is over, we had a lot of fun. For me, the best part was getting to see the ways in which other people see my son. You see, he's a somewhat eccentric kid, socially awkward because he doesn't read people's signals well, and fights with his siblings a lot because of it. He's gotten better over the years - as he matures - but is still a little different.
So you can imagine how these things warmed my heart:
- the note in his yearbook from one of the pretty, "popular" girls - a mere acquaintance but someone who has been in school with him since elementary school - who wrote "you have always been kind to me, no matter what".
- the congratulations card from a former classmate who lives in New Mexico now - a brilliant boy who skipped 3 grades and is in college now at 15 - who wrote "I'll always remember how you were the first person to welcome me at high school and invite me to eat lunch"
- the school friend of his at the party, who, overhearing my niece making a joke about what my son would do with his varied interests - she said "maybe he'll become an evil genius" and S18's friend replied "but he can't be an evil genius, because he doesn't have any enemies".
- the mother of some classmates, an active mom on campus who I know only peripherally but my son has become close to over the years, so he wanted to make sure she came to his party - telling me how much she has enjoyed my son over the years.
Weel, it sure makes me feel good. He's growing out of his awkwardness, and there are plenty of people who recognize his warmth and genuineness.
Ellie
kml. My son was a goof off/no home work in highschool so when he said he wanted to go to college, I thought, "Yea, Right" this is going to be a disaster.
Son went to college and studied courses "HE" was interested in. The first 6 months were hind of rough but he passed all of his classes. After a while of being on his own, he decided to work harder in and out of class. He did graduate after taking a math class over and had a tutor for a couple of classes. A big shange from c's and D-'s in HS
Your son will probally learn how to read people better because he has to depend on himself and others more once he leaves home. My son learned to buckle down because he was on his own. I suspect some similar process will happen to your son too.
Some of the dads at a recent gathering were making complimentary comments about the other dads kid. What we almost all had in common was we all worried about our own kids having a trouble finishing college because of past problems. To our amasement and relief, every kid somehow transformed for the good once they knew they were mostly in charge of their life at college.
I focused on the academic part of college before my son went to college but I say that living with peers and strugeling financially and socially as a group, the students learned from each other to be better and more sociable people.
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Weel, it sure makes me feel good. He's growing out of his awkwardness, and there are plenty of people who recognize his warmth and genuineness.
It's a good feeling Ellie. I am glad you have it, you deserve it.
Lou
Lou -
Quote:
Your son will probally learn how to read people better because he has to depend on himself and others more once he leaves home. My son learned to buckle down because he was on his own. I suspect some similar process will happen to your son too.
Yes, S18 is the kind of kid who needs to be PUSHED out of the nest . I know he is ready for it, though. And that's part of why I feel Berkeley is a good match for him - while he can veer dangerously close to Napoleon Dynamite, it's the brightest kids who are most tolerant of his eccentricities.
Ellie
I'm on a roll lately with the bargain finds
Last month, our friends invited us out to an "Art Walk". This is an event where merchants in a trendy new design district in town keep their shops open late, serve wine and cheese, and you wander though their (mostly overpriced, but interesting)shops.
One shop specialized in handblown Italian glass from the 60's - the kind of stuff everyone had in their living rooms when I was a kid. Vases and lamps of blue, orange, or green blown glass - apparently it's trendy now, and the pieces were rather pricey.
Anyway - fast forward to last Friday. As I'm headed to the dry cleaners, I see a sign for an estate sale. Stopped on a whim (I'm always meaning to go but never do) - and found a swirly blue Italian handblown glass vase for $3.50!!
It looks pretty smart in the front hall, on my $89 imitation Stickley table from Target!
Ellie
Re: kml
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found a swirly blue Italian handblown glass vase for $3.50!!
I bet it matches that $$$$$ ($600?) front door knob you were shopping for but used the back door hardware instead. Much better deal too!
One of my printer repair customers has a 2 story building in the "Historic" district. Big $$$ for things I threw away 40+ years ago. Some verying interesting items but way too much $$$ for my blood.
Lou
Lou -
Guess we both got the "thrifty" gene
Ellie
Well, H has been gone for a few days on a business trip, I was sick with a bad cold while he was gone so it wasn't bad timing, at least I wasn't hacking and coughing and keeping him awake. His flight home got delayed last night, so he didn't get in ubntil 1 AM, and it was one of those nightmares where they loaded the plane then kept them on the tarmac for 3 hours, and he was seated next to some really obnoxious, wiggly person, and the kids behind him kicking his seat etc. Needless to say, Mr. Grumpy is the guy who came home last night.
Too bad, because today is our anniversary and I had left flowers and a card out for him since I knew he'd be getting in after midnite when it would technically be our anniv. already. He had hoped we could get away tonight but it is not working out, my mom is out of town, S18 is working, I'm sick, and recent revelations about some escapades on S13's part (sneaking out at night from friend's house, drinking) mean he needs close supervision.
We will have to do something scaled down tonight, and then have a more special night together a little later.
I don't think this has anything to do with him being grumpy, though. I think he's going through a bad spell with his depression again. Unfortunately, he's in that place where he thinks he's not depressed, it's just all of us in the rest of the world pissing him off. I think I'm better now at not taking it personally, but it's tough sometimes when he gets in his critical mode.
So - how to create a romantic evening, that will make H feel appreciated and loved, while juggling all the kids and issues??? Maybe the weather will cooperate and I could plan a nice beach picnic with the kids - then we could drop them at the movies for a couple hours?
Ellie
PS - Yes, H has been taking his antidepressants.
Hi Ellie - I'm sorry to hear you are unwell, and that H is in a dip too. Maybe it is time to postpone everything, even the little celebration? I know I find it difficult to see the bright side in anything when I'm unwell
Wishing you a better weekend. Slowly
Ellie,
Sorry you're not feeling well! Bad timing, huh?
Sorry, too, that h is in a negative place. I can relate to trying to deal with Mr. Grumps -- it's so hard not to personalize it, isn't it? Or, to want to throttle him?
My dilemma is that I just don't know the "right" response (I know, experiment!) -- should I be perky? Quiet but not irked? Distant?
Anyway, I know you've said that being in a good mood helps bring your h out of a bad one...but I'm sure that's not easy given that you're not feeling well.
Better days ahead for you, I'm sure.
Sage
PS Happy Anniversary!!!
Well, he wasn't quite so Mr. Grumpy last night - and we had a nice evening out with D14 and S13 seeing Mr. and Mrs. Smith (better than expected, really). I know it doesn't sound romantic but we were both fine with it and H was pretty sweet in the movie theater.
Today I'm Mrs. Grumpy, though, having spent about 6 hours with tech support, talking to some guys in India trying to fix my H's virus-infected computer (honestly, we're paying this fee for virus-protection service with Norton, and then when THEIR software fails, we have to PAY for them to walk us through fixing it? And after 6 hours - it's still not done? And as near as I can tell, all this happened because H clicked on the wrong box to close some pop-up????
Just call me GRUMPY right now!
Ellie
I can relate the computer problems and just to add about S18. I have a S18, too. He has always marched to the beat of a different drum. He enjoys different activities than most of his friends. He is really interested in computers and music. But he also liked football and this helped him make friends. Most people just accept him as being a little different. He is a thoughtful, funny, warm person, eccentricities and all.
I understand the feeling of pride when people tell you how much they have enjoyed knowing your child. Hope your computer problems are solved and you are feeling well.
PS Our S18 was supposed to play football for a small university in Indiana but suffered a second dislocation of his left shoulder and will have it surgerically repaired on the 26th of this month.
Ellie,
I found your thread! Yay!
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we had a nice evening out with D14 and S13 seeing Mr. and Mrs. Smith
Great! Let me be one of the first to wish you a belated Happy Anniverary!
And I hope all the virus infections in the household have subsided by now.
Thanks,
K
Thanks K -
No, I'm still struggling with the virus. Decided the Norton guys didn't know squat, followed some instructions myself from a bb which ALMOST cleaned it up, but it recurred when H went back on the internet, so now I have a guy on Geeks To Go website who is walking me through it. Cross your fingers, I'm hoping he'll tell me my last HijackThis log shows I'm finally clean.
Last night ran down to thebeach with thekids at 11:00 to see if the red tide was still fluorescing - it wasn't, but the grunion were running! Can you believe I've lived near thebeach in So. Cal for my whole 49 years and never actually seen the grunion run? (For non-locals - they are fish that come up to spawn on the beach at night during certain phase of the moon/tides/whatever.
Have a great weekend.
Ellie
Hey Lady...
Just dropping in to check on you... Dont think I have ever told you how proud of you I am. I have gone back through the YEARS and read some of your post of your own sitch, and post you made to me...
There are still the ups, the downs, and the all turned arounds and your still sticking it through!!!
There truly is no keeping you back babe... or is it baby back? Wait, I am thinking of a Chili's commercial, nevermind... BBQ Sauce... Anyway...
You are a good person, and good friend...
Take care, I'll be lurking... (Evil laugh)
Later tater till your hair gets straighter...
More cheesy lines in the future...
Oh yeah, I almost forgot....
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
GOPHER DANCE!!!!!!!!!
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Ah, Will, I haven't had a good gopher dance in I don't know HOW long!!!!!!!
Sure brings back the memories
As for my little computer problem - the guys on the Geeks to Go website walked me through it, and even though it took HOURS - I finally cleaned up H's computer - WAHOO!!!!!
Ellie
Hi Ellie,
It was nice hearing from you.
OMG, Floyd and Will both visiting me - I'm so excited!!!
Let the party begin!
Love you guys.
Ellie
They let Floyd out for good behaviour... He also promised he would no longer shave the "thong" area...
S18 got his dorm assignment today!
His last choice (the only all-male hall) but it has plenty of redeeming features. A classic old building (that looks a little bit like Harry Potter - so we're going to call it Gryffindor). A lot of tradition that the newer dorms don't have (has it's own drinking song, long history of pranks) - things that are rare in California public schools, as they are mostly pretty new. It shares a dining hall with the dorm his pretty engineering friend is in. And since it only houses around 200 students, they will probably get to know each other well. Also has a unique quad-room setup (central double with tiny singles off each side) that will suit him well, I think. He's excited
Ellie
Way cool, Ellie!
That's such a fun time of excitement, starting college. He has a whole world opening up before him.
Hey, so do you, don't you? My old supervisor used to say that college was four years because houses have four walls, and you sell one back to the bank each year. So you have a clear view where that first wall used to be, eh?
TYTL,
K
kml,
I have been lurking since last Sept. or Oct. I can't believe how time has flown. I'm so happy for your son. I'm sure you feel a ton of pride with all of his accomplishments. I hope all goes well for him.
Sorry to hear you have been sick. I hope it gets better soon. Sometimes it takes a while to get rid of a summer cold.
Have you heard fom GBO and Maya lately? How are they doing? I miss them posting. I feel like I lost friends even though I never replied to them much. I just sat back, read, and prayed for all of you guys.
Sorry to hear of the recent problems with your younger children. I just don't know what's going on with kids these days. You do your best for them and they still test our patience. Hope that gets better for you.
farmgirl
Ellie, I don't know how I missed your last post, but here's a late WOO-HOO!!! So exciting. I remember so well my dorm days at school and they were SO happy. Ah, if I had it all to do over again... on second thought, never mind.
Anyway, just popping in to say YAY! S18 and may he excel and thrill at every new experience college throws his way.
J
Hey Ellie,
Just read that your S is going to Cal! Go Bears! (Class of 91).
I partied at that very dorm my freshman year - I recall a luau theme and a hot coed (biology major) in a grass skirt.... but I digress.
The campus is gorgeous, the setting amazingly stimulating, the level of intellect among peers is astounding, and the football team is so much better (Go Cal! Beat Stanford!). IMHO, there's no better public university in the world.
Way back in the day, his dorm was considered to be a nice combo of great setting and slightly more conservativism than others (it wasn't coed when I was on campus). Of course, that's all relative at Berkeley! It has great access to the hills behind campus if he gets into running or cycling. Outdoors always helped me to not get too squirrely in that urban setting.
One suggestion for family visits - Zachary's Pizza. Yumm!
By the way, you have a very nice way of keeping an eye on the big picture (e.g., trends of H's mood) in your sitch. I hope you two can carve out the time/space to celebrate your Anniversary.
Gabriel
Go Bears!!!!
Yes, S is thrilled to be going to Cal, I really can't imagine a better place for him - what a lucky boy. And since his nickname has always been Bear, what better place for him to emd up?
He just went up for a weekend orientation, got the email addresses of some more brilliant and beautiful girls
and is even more pumped up about going there.
Ellie
Good to hear S's college setting is going well. Hope everyone else in the family is doing well.
RE: S shopping list. Hand sanatiser. don't know how you feel about the effectiveness of the product or how much S18 would use it.
My uncle was in a nursing home and everyone had to use it when they came in to the facility.
Just curious, do you still have relatives in Joliet MT or near there? If you do, do you visit them?
My S32 went to Rapelje MT Population: 221 (about 50 miles north of Joliet) a couple of weeks ago for a 24 houre bike race.
Map Quest site Zoom in 2 bars/notches to get the correct map. This map is for the general area.
Lou
They are in Billings now - my aunts got too old to stay on the farms - although come to think of it, I might have a cousin still in Joliet (the Jerry Springer branch of the family!).
Haven't been back in years, no current plans to go there, I'm afraid.
Ellie
Ellie,
If you have a little time to hit this Newcomer's thread -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=935761&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1AndyUK - he's really on the ball, and I thought of you because he needs some help with a script.
Jennifer
Ellie,
Thank you for the thyroid advice. I did know that you were in Piecing but somehow I thought it was rude to post a medical question on your own thread, so I did it on my own. Then when you didn't see it, I chased you all over the board--duh! Shoulda just came here.
I appreciate the info. My gut feeling is that something is wrong with not only his thyroid but his mom and sister's. As I was reading the symptom list, it was like 3 lights going off in my head..one for each of them.
I'll check it out and let you know what happens. You were my inspiration to look into this in the first place and I thank you!
P.S. Congrats to Son, what a big adventure he's about to embark upon.
Hi Ellie,
Guess that means you'll be coming up to Berkeley -- WOO HOO! We can meet on my stomping grounds, very cool.
Aside to Farmgirl -- GBO and Maya are both doing well. GB is dating a nice fellow and verrrrry busy juggling job, kids, D, and new R. Maya's in good spirits and doing lots of cool stuff with work, still having positive interactions with H. Hopefully they'll come back and post sometime.
Ellie
How's your daughter doing?
Livnlearn
Hi guys -
I'm leaving out of town for a couple weeks on vacation tomorrow. Azure, I might (teeny tiny maybe might) be able to do drinks on Friday August 19 or late Sunday 21 - I'll know more of my schedule when I get back from vacation, then I'll let GBO know.
LNL - D is doing well, although she is in the ER right now getting a shot of antibiotics for what looks like a kidney infection! Just what we need the day before we travel to a third-world country! Otherwise, though, she has been doing pretty well this summer. She learned to sew and to wakeboard. Thanks for asking.
See ya all in a couple of weeks
Ellie
Have a Happy Holiday!
See ya!
Livnlearn
Have a great vacation!!!!!
Ellie,
I guess you're out of town by now, but my well wishes are with you anyhow.
Have a good vacation,
K
Ellie,
It's about a couple weeks, so let me be one of the first to say, "Welcome home!" Here goes!
Welcome home!
K
Hi all -
Just back a couple of days from our two-week tour of Baja, Mexico with the kids. Can't write much now - have four houseguests who will be waking up soon - but we had a fabulous time and many adventures, and I learned lots of new things, such as:
- the best way to treat Portuguese Man-o-war stings is to rub vinegar into them
- burros can be very cute and dog-like in their devotion to their master (who knew? Of course, Einstein was a very special burro
)
- you can get excellent medical care at the Centro de Especialidades Medicales in La Paz (S13 broke his ankle, but not badly, and not until near the end of the trip - they took fine care of him there)
- Cardons are the tallest cacti in the world - similar to saguaro but bigger
- cirios, or "boojum trees", grow so slowly that a 50 foot tree is 500 years old - and I'm SURE Dr. Seuss must have travelled to the place in Baja which is their only habitat, because his drawings MUST have been inspired by these crazy upside-down hairy-carrot things
We had a great time and the snorkeling in Cabo Pulmo was spectacular.
Now - to get S18 ready to leave for college on Friday!
Ellie
Looks like the saga continues
Quote:
S13 broke his ankle, but not badly, and not until near the end of the trip
Glad it was only a small part of an otherwise fabulous holiday
Slowly
Yes, lucky it was near the end, it would have been disatrous if it had happened early in this trip and S13 couldn't have snorkeled! On the same day he broke his ankle, I missed a stair at the Hotel California in Todos Santos and wrecked my foot - xrays don't show a fracture, but my whole foot swelled up and I suspect there is a microscopic "stress fracture" of the big toe from the way it feels and is healing. Still, no biggie - at least it's my left foot, and the car I am driving to take S18 to college is an automatic.
H was in pretty good humor on this trip (much to my relief - he hasn't done long car trips very well in the past). One small moment, though, stands out in my mind. We had just left our motel, on our second-to-last day on the road, and were going to the gas station in Loreto to tank up. We were on schedule, had no commitments or particular urgency, plenty of time to get to our next destination by dark, etc. We pull into the station and H says (vehemently) "Sh_t!" - in such a tone of voice that I immediately think something is wrong with the truck, or he just realized he left his wallet in la Paz, or some other catastrophe has befallen us. I asked him what was wrong - and he says it's because there are two cars in front of him at the pumps! (Not a line, mind you, just the two pumps are occupied and we might have to wait a minute for one to open up). Then I did something out of character - I said "You said Sh_t for THAT?" - and H got mad at me for criticizing him.
Now mind you - my H is not normally an abrasive, cussing kind of guy. To me, this stood out just as a measure of the effects of depression. Here we were, having an excellent vacation (one he says is one of the best we've ever taken), no rush or pressures, in fact he's loving it because the pace there is so slow and leisurely and everyone is so friendly and happy - but waiting 30 seconds at the gas pump (actually, just the prospect of that remote possibility) sends him into a flurry of anger. It must really be awful to live through that - and although my H is doing great 95% of the time now, those little glimpses kind of keep me walking on eggshells too - so I sympathize with those of you who are living with more seriously depressed spouses. This just reminded me of what it used to be like living with H before he got treatment.
Well - off to start packing up S18's things for college. Anybody know a really good brand of booklight? All the ones I've tried cast a really poor or uneven light.
Ellie
Hi Ellie!
Your trip sounds fabulous, in spite of the broken ankle. I am glad to hear Baja isn't a medical "cry in the wilderness"
I will have to check out those cacti...It has always been a fantasy of mine to design a "Dr. Suess" house, with arches upon arches, and balconies on top of balconies, and crazy plant landscaping!
Quote:
Now - to get S18 ready to leave for college on Friday!
Oh Boy! I am sure that is going to be something...a mixture of emotions...
We have been counting down to D's departure. She gets her dorm assignment on Friday, and we go to SLO on Sept 9th. Getting the "x-tra long" sheets was an all day adventure!
I am sure you will be busy this weekend, but be sure to e-mail me whenever you are in Berekely and are up for a visit.
take care,
SG
Hi
Sorry to trouble you but you're a doctor, right? I am going through the egg donation process and wanted to ask you a couple of questions before I go to the clinic for the first jab tomorrow.
I have noticed the drugs contain hydrochloric acid - obviously this is corrosive so I'm worried that it's unsafe to inject into myself. The data sheet said nausea and vomiting were side effects but it was the 'incomplete' version of the data, so I got the dr's version of the data and it also listed 'acute respiratory distress' and 'cardiovascular problems' - well, I already suffer with migraines which is a cardiovascular problem and in the safety study I read about, there were 12 women who suffered migraine as a side-effect out of only about 550 women, which is a big percentage.
Having these already, I am worried that it will trigger them.
Plus I think I might be contraindicated as it listed prolactin as a contraindication and my DD has only just stopped breast feeding at age 3, and I still produce milk as it's not dried up yet.
It also listed vaginal cancer as a contraindication. I don't have cancer but I do have vestibulodynia syndrome (VS) which the clinic were aware of when they accepted me as a donor - since this is a long-term health problem of that area, I am concerned that might be a contraindication also.
I wrote an email to the clinic to ask and I phoned them but they ignored me. I was told to speak to the nurse tomorrow when I have the jab.
I feel worried that they didn't tell me the side-effects first (I was only told about bloating and stomach cramps) and that they haven't checked to see whether I am contraindicated. I would rather speak to a dr than a nurse and was hoping I could pick your brains before I go in tomorrow.
Thanks,
Jo.
Hi Jo -
I'll try to address you questions one at a time:
- Hydrochloric acid - not a worry. The amount is miniscule, and it's the same acid your body produces in your stomach. Just not an issue.
- respiratory distress and cardiovascular problems - female hormones such as birth control pills can be associated in rare cases with blood clotting problems - DVTs and pulmonary emboli and the like - just as pregnancy itself can. Actually, the risk from BCPs is less than the risk from pregnancy. Presumably, the fertility drugs have a similar effect - probably greater than on no hormones, but less than being pregnant.
- I doubt your prolactin levels are high enough to be an issue, but I would make sure the doctor's office knows you just finished breastfeeding - it might mean your fertility is still suppressed.
- migraines can definitely be triggered by hormonal shifts - many women get them monthly with their cycle. The rapid shifts up and down with the drugs certainly might trigger a migraine. If, however, your migraines have never been cyclical, or you've taken birth control pills without an increase in migraine frequency or severity, it's probably not as big a risk.
- as for the VS, what has your response to hormones been in the past? Did it get better or worse while you were pregnant? Does it get better or worse during your menstrual cycle? If it has been unaffected by hormones in the past, it probably won't react to this. If it has been very sensitive to hormonal changes in the past, it might flare up (or get better, depending) while you go through this hormone shift.
Hope this helps. You might also try to find a forum for women undergoing fertility treatment or for egg donors to ask about their experiences with the drugs.
Ellie
Hi Ellie
Firstly I have never taken female hormones or the pill etc because frankly I am terrified of the idea. XH and I used condoms and calendar method.
I think the migraines are cycle related as they always occur 1 day before my period, bad enough to have me lying in darkened room all day. It's always 1 day before the period, on the dot. I can sometimes stop them using peppermint tea as I read about that in a health manual.
The VS is at a constant level and never gets any better. It did get a bit better each time I gave birth (because of the stretching, I think) but I can't keep having more babies so that's out as a cure. Sometimes it is bad enough to prevent me from having a SL, the rest of the time I just get dryness, tender when pressed etc, sore etc.
I reacted badly to the ami they put me on for it (sleeping all the time, dizzy, sickness, not wanting to eat etc) so I came off them myself after a few weeks as sick as a dog. The topical steroid they put me on didn't work and I was getting colds every 3 weeks so I stopped that and have had no treatment since 1997 and have just started homeopathy for it.
I would be terrified if it flared up permanently as I did have open lesions with it in my teenage years which is when it was diagnosed. It gets a bit better during a period but only because of the moisture - I am less dry so it's less sore.
I have become so fed up with it I just want the dr to cut the damn area out but they're not into invasive treatments in the UK.
The data sheet said vaginal dryness was a side-effect so I'd hate to do something that made me even sicker, also depression is a contraindication and as everybody knows on this BB I had depression really bad. I told them that at the time and they still accepted me. I am wondering if they read the data sheet?
Anyway, thanks for your help. I expected that they would have had a consultation with me about this but no, it's just straight in for the jab.
You've reassured me on the hydrochloric acid a bit - I just keep thinking about science at school where you have to wear protective eye gear and stuff.
Thanks for your help,
Jo.
I would think the depression history would be a good reason NOT to do this, Jo.
I hate to say this, but in a situation like this - you are really NOT their patient. Yes, maybe in a legal sense, but not really in a moral sense - because they are somewhat more interested in getting those eggs than they are in making sure you are the lowest-poissible-risk donor candidate. They probably don't get that many donors (one of the reasons private sources in the States will pay big bucks for the right donors) and so they view your relative contraindications as less important than their other patient's desire to get pregnant. Makes me a little bit queasy, all of it. After all, it's not like you're donating a kidney to save a life. These people do have adoption as an option. Although the risks to you are not huge, there are risks - and I think the professionals tend to downplay them a bit, because, after all, this is their business.
Ellie
Well, I just got back from taking S18 off to college!
Lucky boy, he got one of the "single" rooms (a quad setup with two singles off of a central double) - so he has three roomates but can close his own door at nite. That, plus a view of San Francisco!
And one thing I was worried about was S18 getting enough exercise, since he tends to be lazy in that regard and needs to lose a few pounds - but since it's a good 7 flights of stairs from street level to his room, I think he'll get in great shape despite himself!
He's relieved, too, to find out that of the 19 books he had to buy for his classes, three he has already read. Two of his classes (English and Classical Greece) are reading the Odyssey - which he has already read several times for different classes. I think finding that out has taken the edge off of the intimidation factor.
No tears on my part - just happiness and excitement for him. We had fun helping him put his dorm room together. (A little trouble hanging up his wall hangings - the walls are made of concrete! The whole building was made in the 1920's out of poured concrete, with rough wooden forms used to give it texture on the outside.)
I talked with GBO on the phone when I was there, but it was too busy a weekend to get together - I promised her, though, that I would try to arrive early or stay late on Parent's weekend (Oct 1) so that maybe we can have a Bay Area girls' nite out.
Later.
Ellie
Oh, Ellie, how exciting!
And I'm so glad that S is feeling confident about his prospects for excelling in his classes.
Congratulations once again for having given Mr. Smarty Pants the opportunity to achieve everything he can.
Jennifer
Thanks, J. I'm sure proud of him.
Ellie
Go Bears! He's in for an incredible experience. And SC comes to town this season!!!
Gabriel
Congrats!!
Just dropped my S18 off to college too.
he got to room with his best friend from home.
I felt bad that his D wasn't there for him, but we made the day as special for him as we could.
One day I pray that my H will look back on all of the things he has missed out on because of his bad choices!!!
Quote:
One day I pray that my H will look back on all of the things he has missed out on because of his bad choices!!!
Amen sister! I have to say I agree with tis whole-heartedly. My H was not with us when I took S18 to college. S18 is furious with his D. He says everytime he gives him the chance to do the right thing, he disappoints him. It makes me sad that H is missing things that he can't ever get back.
Yes, it's so sad what some people miss out on with their kids due to their midlife crises and/or depression. And I am particularly grateful when I get to share these moments with my H (even if he was being grouchy that weekend
).
Tomorrow I get to go on a business trip with H to Montreal for a couple days - it will be good to have some time together without the kids.
Ellie
Well, I got to Montreal just in time to get soaked by the remnants of Katrina
Just a lot of rain and wind, nothing really. Had a nice trip and would really like to go back there sometime. I'm thinking, hmmm...D14 loves learning French, McGill is an excellent English-speaking university in the middle of very cool French-speaking Montreal...and despite the foreign student tuition, with the exchange rate, it would actually be about 20% cheaper for D to go to college there than to a Univ. of Calif. campus....hmmm, I'm gonna start planting some seeds
Ellie
Hey Ellie - as a girl who was born in Montreal and had many friends go to McGill, I gotta tell you that it would be a wonderful experience for D14. She should definitely consider it - beautiful city, great education, lots of fun pubs (which naturally your daughter will be too busy studying to attend).
A little hometown pride here!
Sounds like a great plan Ellie. Hmmmm...I wonder if I can work out something similar for S19.
Well, since I've been neglecting posting about my sitch, I'll need to put in a little background to bring y'all up to speed on my current dilemma.
One of the bad dynamics in our marriage was that I tend to be the cautious, conservative one, and ended up in the 'mommy" role of saying "no" to H's wild ideas sometimes, which he resented. (Meanwhile, he was free to pursue any wild idea, knowing he could rely on me to rein him in when it got out of control). One of the 180's which I implemented was to let go of my worries more and try to go with the flow with H. Overall, this has worked out pretty well. But it has also gotten us into a bit of a sitch today.
This summer, H announced he was going to suspend his outside consulting work for the summer (which makes up about 20% of his income). He also planned this long (expensive) trip to Baja for the family. As the family accountant, (H doesn't want to pay bills or even think about them, really), I thought I had enough to scrape us by for the summer. And, since H is still on my case about me getting a job, I felt pretty powerless to say anything about it. He seemed to be going through a small depressive slump and i figured he needed the break, we would get by.
Unfortunately, between the trip, and several thousand other unanticipated expenses like car repairs etc., we find ourselves quite a bit in the hole after paying our quarterly estimated taxes. No big deal, but we both hate carrying any balance on our credit cards, and it will mean really serious scrimping for the next several months to get back in balance.
But while we were in Baja, H fell in love with the idea of buying beachfront property down there. I think a big part of it was that he felt relaxed there while we were on vacation, and this is his way of trying to recapture that feeling. His idea is to hold it for 10 years or so, then spend part of our (hopefully early) retirement there, and part here.
Now, I don't object to the idea in principle - it was nice, that would be nice - but it seems really impractical financially right now. I tried to stick to my 180 and just go along with H (hoping he would calm down and the idea would fizzle out) but he is still full-steam-ahead. He tried to talk friends into splitting a property with us, but they all backed out. We are going back there in a month anyway for a business trip, during which we planned to look at more property, but H insisted on scheduling a trip for himself this weekend to go down and look at property. $500 we don't have right now, to take a two day trip to look at property he could see in a month anyway.
I finally did try to gently approach him, that I thought he was being manic about this, and showed him the finances (again - he always thinks, since he makes a good income, there should be money for anything he wants - he doesn't understand how much goes out in fixed expenses every month). He acknowledged all my concerns, surprisingly - but then just said he was going ahead anyway. Finally, last night, he admits it isn't wise to be spending this money right now - but he's leaving tomorrow and can't refund the tickets, so now he feels like he HAS to go.
And of course, his answer to how we'll pay for it is, "you can go to work a few half-days". Unfortunately, I already need to do that to pay for upcoming college expenses - me working part-time will NOT cover college for 3 AND more property! And I still have D14 homeschooling - she's only got one day a week where she's at school long enough for me to do anything, and I refuse to leave her alone while I work - she still needs lots of supervision.
All of this, of course, while H is cutting his own hours and complaining about going to work every Monday - but wanting to take on additional debt that will make it less likely that he can retire early when he wants to.
(Have I mentioned we already live in beautiful San Diego with an ocean-view home 1/2 mile from the beach??? Or that H refuses to consider other less-expensive lots in Baja that are a few lots away from the beachfront?).
Arggghhhh. I don't want to be the mean mommy who squashes H's dream of beachfront property in Mexico. But I don't want to go back to work full time to finance it while my kids still need me. And I don't want to be the one who lies awake at night worrying about the finances. And I don't want to end up in a financial hole because of H looking for yet another thing to temporarily soothe his chronic depression. (Yes, he's still taking his low-dose antidepressants, I check the bottle periodically to be sure.) And, I feel like he blames me for not being back to work (my illness first, then his affair, then D's eating disorder and now homeschooling her - kind of put a hole in my career) and feels he could have everything he wants if only I was back to working outside the home. Meanwhile, I feel like we have everything we need, I'm needed at home, and although it would be nice, I don't want a place in Mexico badly enough to go back to working full time, or to have H go back to working crazy hours either.
Guess it's time to buy a lottery ticket
Ellie
Ellie, it seems you're in a Mexican stand-off! Seriously, I can totally relate to your experience -- one of the big issues in my M was my departure from the wage-earning world into the at-home parent world. XH told the MC that he never "agreed" to me staying home, he merely "acquiesced."
I wonder to what degree your H is engineering a sitch where the only recourse is for you to go back to work. He knows you are the responsible type -- maybe if it gets bad enough you'll do what he wants you to do... take the pressure off him by going back to work.
I know in my M I stepped back in the hopes that XH would step up. I realize now how fruitless and manipulative it really was. The bottom line was XH had a lot of issues around his career and mine and I didn't fully understand that. I was the primary breadwinner for the first 12 years we were together, and when that changed our dynamic changed.
Is there a safe place for you to discuss both of your feelings around your work?
Just thinkin',
Michele
I've tried telling H how I feel. H makes so much more than I would at this point (he can make more in one day of consulting than I would for a whole week of full time work) that it really isn't about the money for H, I know - it's about his extreme discomfort with me being a SAHM. We have plenty. But H married a professional woman, and even though he fully realizes how important it has been that I was home for our D, and even though me being here is what has allowed him to advance in his career in the way he has for the past few years (picking up all the household slack, allowing him to travel for work, etc.) in his mind he still can't cope with me not working. Trust me, I am not an intellectual slob or anything - have plenty to talk about, lots of interests, he still thinks I'm smarter than he is.
And the sad thing is - I would like to go back to work. Not because I think it would be good for the kids or him or our home at the moment - it wouldn't. I'd like to go back to work simply because I don't trust being financially dependent on him anymore. I don't trust him not to spin out of emotional control again at some point. And I hate being in the position of feeling like I can't have an equal say in financial decisions because he's the one bringing in the money at the moment.
But I cannot sacrifice what I think my kids need at the moment. I REALLY need to figure out a way to have a career from home. Even then, H will be shocked at the slack he will have to pick up if I start diverting too many hours from homemaking into work.
Ellie
Ellie,
Quote:
I don't trust him not to spin out of emotional control again at some point.
While I can certainly understand your fear here, is it possible that you're outwardly showing signs that he can see and read that seem to be encouraging him to force a hand he understands isn't going to work?
I know you mentioned that you've calmly shared your POV with him and he's seemingly unwilling to take your position into consideration. (Yes, there is something really disconcerting about his saying he heard you and agrees with you but is going to do it anyway...)
Why do you suppose he's choosing to engage you in a dynamic which didn't work in the past?
If you could cut to the chase and take a guess at the outcome he really wants, what would that be?
What was different when you did trust him, Ellie? Or have you not fully been able to get there yet?
Bets
Ellie,
Interesting quandry you pose here, my dear. A couple of questions/possibilities come to mind while I read:
1) If he is really hell-bent on the Baja property, would it be possible for him (or you for that matter) to just have him go ahead and finance it in his name only and have him be responsible for the payments out of his own pocket?
2) Have you ever thought about giving up the role of being the family accountant and turning it over to him? Just saying, "I quit. You do it." Sometimes that needs to happen so the less financially responsible party can really see what comes in and what goes out each month. (Another possibility would be to hire a real accountant to manage your family finances [sounds like you could] and let the professional be the bad guy -- removes you from the "mommy" role.)
3) I don't recall what your previous line of work was. Perhaps if you could share some of that, we here could help with a little brain-storming session for some work-from-home options.
We're here to listen/help -- whatever you need.
M
Martha--Ellie is a family doctor... not something you can do out of your home or operate part time....
Betsey
While I can certainly understand your fear here, is it possible that you're outwardly showing signs that he can see and read that seem to be encouraging him to force a hand he understands isn't going to work?
No, I don't think he has any sense that I am afraid of depending on him financially. I know you mentioned that you've calmly shared your POV with him and he's seemingly unwilling to take your position into consideration. (Yes, there is something really disconcerting about his saying he heard you and agrees with you but is going to do it anyway...)
Yes, it's unusual for him, I take it as a manifestation of his mild mania. Why do you suppose he's choosing to engage you in a dynamic which didn't work in the past?
Well, I don't know that it didn't work for him in the past. I do think I have tended to accomodate him a lot in the past - I tend to be easy-going, things seem to matter more to him than to me - so I guess he thinks if he just pushes enough, i will accomodate him here too. If you could cut to the chase and take a guess at the outcome he really wants, what would that be?
He wants to be relieved of his depression, and his underlying drive to always make things "better" comes from his inability to enjoy the now. I really think the outcome he wants is to recapture that happiness he felt on vacation. At least this time, instead of an affair with a woman, he's having an affair with a piece of land! What was different when you did trust him, Ellie? Or have you not fully been able to get there yet?
What was different when I trusted him? He hadn't had his breakdown yet! Now that I know how severe his mood swings can get, I worry about the possibility of a recurrence. It's not anything about his behavior - I trust his intantions, our R is good - but I can see now more clearly how he cycles from high to low, how those swings widen as he gets older, 1) If he is really hell-bent on the Baja property, would it be possible for him (or you for that matter) to just have him go ahead and finance it in his name only and have him be responsible for the payments out of his own pocket?
No, his is the only income right now, everything goes into the same bank account, any money he spent would come out of money we need for college and other things. 2) Have you ever thought about giving up the role of being the family accountant and turning it over to him? Just saying, "I quit. You do it." Sometimes that needs to happen so the less financially responsible party can really see what comes in and what goes out each month. (Another possibility would be to hire a real accountant to manage your family finances [sounds like you could] and let the professional be the bad guy -- removes you from the "mommy" role.)
You know, for the very first time, I have been thinking about doing that. I always preferred being the accountant, because I am detail oriented and good with figures, and I liked knowing where things stood. H, when I met him, didn't balance his checkbook, just spent until it was gone, then stopped spending - shoulda been a clue, huh? Don't get me wrong - he's really not a spendthrift - he was always perfectly capable of not spending when money was low. He just didn't like having to keep track of it. With menopause, I find that things make me anxiousnow that never used to, and I wouldn't mind if he took over now - although then I'd probably worry whether he was doing it right! I think the solution lies in making him sit down with me every month to see just where the money goes.
3) I don't recall what your previous line of work was. Perhaps if you could share some of that, we here could help with a little brain-storming session for some work-from-home options.
I'm a family physician, I worked part-time in urgent care for years when my kids were smaller. I really don't want to go back to direct patient care, though - I really enjoyed it at the time, but the pressures now to see patients so quickly are uncomfortable. Patient education is my love - I feel there is so much information out there that doesn't reach patients. I've looked into being a "medical coach" online, but there are insurance obstacles I haven't worked out yet.
Ellie
Hi Ellie,
I normally don't post to you but I always read your posts because you are so insightful. Have you considered teaching? There are so many online schools now that you could teach strictly online courses, bring in income without leaving home. I worked for a University for over 10 years and quality instructors are always needed...just a thought.
Unsure
Well, I have taught in the past - organic chemistry and microbiology at a junior college - but that was 25 years ago, a summer job while I was in med school. The biggest obstacle would be that it wouldn't pay nearly as much as I could earn as a physician - and in order for it to be really worthwhile for me to go back to work, I need to see a good return on my time investment.
Ellie,
Okay, you've given some really useful information here...
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No, I don't think he has any sense that I am afraid of depending on him financially.
Would you be amenable to sharing your fears with him? Not as a means to point out the obvious, but intimacy building?
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I tend to be easy-going, things seem to matter more to him than to me - so I guess he thinks if he just pushes enough, i will accomodate him here too.
Perhaps it's all in how you disclose your fears and not the act of being "mean mommy who doesn't let H have his way"? Maybe even offering to find a way of prioritizing his dream but asking for some time and patience to execute it? Give him what he wants but ask for some consideration and reasonable time to put the wheels in motion?
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He wants to be relieved of his depression, and his underlying drive to always make things "better" comes from his inability to enjoy the now. I really think the outcome he wants is to recapture that happiness he felt on vacation. At least this time, instead of an affair with a woman, he's having an affair with a piece of land!
Looks like you just summed up the garden variety of our spouses/former spouses here! Too bad he can't figure out that the trouble isn't with getting what he wants but figuring out why he thinks he wants that... (no answer necessary, just a musing.)
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but I can see now more clearly how he cycles from high to low, how those swings widen as he gets older,
It's good that you see this seriously.
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2) Have you ever thought about giving up the role of being the family accountant and turning it over to him? Just saying, "I quit. You do it." Sometimes that needs to happen so the less financially responsible party can really see what comes in and what goes out each month. (Another possibility would be to hire a real accountant to manage your family finances [sounds like you could] and let the professional be the bad guy -- removes you from the "mommy" role.)
You know, for the very first time, I have been thinking about doing that. I always preferred being the accountant, because I am detail oriented and good with figures, and I liked knowing where things stood. H, when I met him, didn't balance his checkbook, just spent until it was gone, then stopped spending - shoulda been a clue, huh? Don't get me wrong - he's really not a spendthrift - he was always perfectly capable of not spending when money was low. He just didn't like having to keep track of it. With menopause, I find that things make me anxiousnow that never used to, and I wouldn't mind if he took over now - although then I'd probably worry whether he was doing it right! I think the solution lies in making him sit down with me every month to see just where the money goes.
Yes, this is exactly how it worked out in my house as well. He didn't see my gesture of giving him the finances as magnanimous... but retaliation for not listening to me. There are better ways to get him to own responsibility, and I'm guessing your thoughts about including him while you're paying bills is a better one.
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and in order for it to be really worthwhile for me to go back to work, I need to see a good return on my time investment.
Ellie, sometimes doing things for ROI just isn't good for us. Can we appeal to your conservative nature by possibly entertaining an idea that might bring you some joy and help bridge his discomfort.. if only in the short term?
You're awfully good at thinking outside the box... I think if you pop the lid, you can see the value in doing a 180? How about some private tutoring at your D's HS?
Betsey
Ellie, just my two cents. I had the same accountant/spendthrift dynamic in my M. I gave up the bill-paying and budgeting and XH was supposed to do it. In three months, every account was past due and guess who the accountancy passed to? Yepperoni! Me.
I think this was part of his larger "sabotage" plan -- that is, if you are a failure at something no one asks you to do it again.
So think thru the money job -- or ways you could share it...?
-- Michele
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Perhaps it's all in how you disclose your fears and not the act of being "mean mommy who doesn't let H have his way"? Maybe even offering to find a way of prioritizing his dream but asking for some time and patience to execute it? Give him what he wants but ask for some consideration and reasonable time to put the wheels in motion?
Oh, Bets, I think I've been doing ALL of this. Problem is, real estate has appreciated quickly in that area, and he has that panicky "gotta jump on the train before it leaves the station" feeling (which so often should be "that train has left the station so I should wait for the next one", LOL!!!).
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Ellie, sometimes doing things for ROI just isn't good for us. Can we appeal to your conservative nature by possibly entertaining an idea that might bring you some joy and help bridge his discomfort.. if only in the short term?
You're awfully good at thinking outside the box... I think if you pop the lid, you can see the value in doing a 180? How about some private tutoring at your D's HS?
H would be unhappy with me taking any job that earned less than what I would earn if I just went back to a clinic. He's already made that clear.
I really have to get serious about figuring out what I can do that won't make me miserable but will take away his excuse ("money would be no problem if only Ellie went back to work - but not on nights or weekends, or Fridays, because I need her to be free to go away with me on business trips, and I need her to take care of the kids and their homework in the evenings, and I want a nice home-cooked meal when I get home...."). Don't get me wrong - H is NOT a chauvinist.
Actually, when I think about it, this all goes back to his mother. He REALLY likes it when I do those homemaker things for him, because his mom quit doing them when she became a WAW. But he also wants me to continue to be the "professional woman" I was when we met - and that his mother became! (She's a lawyer now). He HATED it when I worked every other weekend - even though it was a great job and a good schedule that allowed me to spend time with our babies and make good money on just a few days a week. He wants quality time with me, he wants to be free of laundry and cooking and shopping and cleaning, he wants the kids completely supervised and happy, and he wants me to be bringing in the big bucks! (Gee, what's the problem????;) )
Why does it all make me think of that awful commercial about bringing home the bacon and frying it up in a pan?
Still - despite the fact that I suspect (no - I KNOW) that H won't ever be completely satisfied whatever choice I make - I need to figure this out FOR ME, because I need to feel financially independent of him again for the balance in this R to be restored.
Now, where's my lotto ticket again?
Ellie
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Why does it all make me think of that awful commercial about bringing home the bacon and frying it up in a pan?
Ellie, that commercial (with tune blaring) still runs through my mind. The subliminal message is still so strong, even though I was a little girl when that aired. It's such a horrid injustice...
And you know something? When I was preparing for my MCATs in college, I was feeling uneasy and for whatever reason, that image was conjured and it began to make me REALLY uncomfortable. As that song screamed at me (remember hot mama in her high heels and panty hose, wielding that frying pan while he was gaining strength from that cologne) I began to make a life altering decision not to head to medical school.
I don't know why, Ellie... everything I had learned up to that point told me that I could have and do it all (and so did the commercial). I remember trying to appeal to my college advisor, and he gave me a blank look and tried to talk me out of my decision not to go. (Earlier, he also tried unsuccessfully to convince me that taking 3 foreign languages at the same time was a bad move--but I made straight As in all of them and he proudly admitted defeat.)
The most disturbing convo I had with him was when I told him that nobody could do everything perfectly and give it 110% without something important falling by the wayside or failing. I told him that I wanted to be a wife and mother some day, and that the cost of doing either one of them badly at the expense of being a good doctor was more than I was willing to pay.
So I hear you loud and clear. And for the record, that commercial is so full of sh!t.
So, here is your testimony, GF:
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I need to figure this out FOR ME, because I need to feel financially independent of him again for the balance in this R to be restored.
Excellent.
Bets
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I'm a family physician, I worked part-time in urgent care for years when my kids were smaller. I really don't want to go back to direct patient care, though - I really enjoyed it at the time, but the pressures now to see patients so quickly are uncomfortable. Patient education is my love - I feel there is so much information out there that doesn't reach patients. I've looked into being a "medical coach" online, but there are insurance obstacles I haven't worked out yet.
Hmmm...Ellie, I'm on the business end of the healthcare stick, and I know exactly what you are talking about. I can think of a few options for you that you could do part time. I also noticed you mentioned teaching, so here's just some brainstorming:
- teach at a community college
- consultant work for insurance companies, private practices
- freelance writer (I read a lot of health business articles written by physicians)
- non-profit work (I can think of a ton of these who would love to have a physician working with them. I'm sure you could set your own hours too, but not a lot pay involved.)
- Medical or health journal editor
That's just for starters...
Ellie,
Martha has a lot of good suggestions, though I'm not sure any of them has the same kind of upside as a winning lotto ticket.
This sounds like a guy with something of a MLC going on. He's going to get in on the Baja land rush (about 25 years after it started, no?). He's going to make dreams come true, even after agreeing that it's not reasonable. (That
is disturbing.) It sounds like you've discussed the college expenses and he sees them as simply "in the way" of getting what he wants. I mean, he does see them, right? Does he agree this is unreasonable right now, or does he say the words that will get him out of the convo?
Does H "do" R stuff? How did you get to be Piecing? What were the "techniques" that worked when you were getting him back to the M?
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He wants quality time with me, he wants to be free of laundry and cooking and shopping and cleaning, he wants the kids completely supervised and happy, and he wants me to be bringing in the big bucks!
Except for the quality time (she wanted it, but with someone else), that could describe STBXW's attitude toward me.
You've gotten through to him before. What were you doing then? What is different now?
Thanks,
K
(((((Ellie)))))
Hey, Ellie Look at how well loved you are! Lots of good advice here, and I know you will figure something out.
This all reminds me of the kinds of struggles STBX and I would have about money...and in our case I was the one doing the bookeeping because yes, I am much better at it. What you said about your H feeling that "he makes plenty of $$ and should be able to buy whatever he wants" is my H to a "T".
For us it was a control issue. H felt that he made "most" of the money and thus he had a right to spend it. The way we solved it was to have the shared account and then we each had our own separate account that we didn't have to report to the other one about. I don't know if something like that would work in your case, and it probably wouldn't be a solution to the immediate problem of your H wanting to get in on the Baja condo, but maybe this will simmer down and you can implement something similar.
Also, I hear you about wanting to be less dependant. I would say that is the best outcome of my own situation...although I have worked our entire marriage I never made enough money to fully support myself...but that is changing!
It seems to me that you would be a natural teacher... Would you be able to make enough teaching at the Med School?
There is no way you can be the loving supportive wife and mother that you have been, and that your family is used to if you have to work full time. Your kids will only be at home a few more years...is there any chance you could start something part time and then transition to full time when the time comes? (and you will have 3 kids in college!)
You have had a very full plate the last few years...I can't imagine you dealing effectively with your D and all those issues if you were juggling a job on top of that. Just bop your H upside the head for me one time!
wishing you all the best,
SG
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Would you be able to make enough teaching at the Med School?
That would be a full time job, and not one I particularly want - my friends there aren't that happy.
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is there any chance you could start something part time and then transition to full time when the time comes? (and you will have 3 kids in college!)
Absolutely, I have no intention of working full time right now. Realistically, unless I find work I can do from home, I have a grand total of one half-day a week free when my D is in school. The rest of the time I need to be here, as she is home-schooled and needs the supervision, not to mention the companionship. H complained bitterly when I used to work nights and weekends, so I won't do that again.
I must say, to H's credit, that he does seem to be "hearing" some of what I've been saying to him. He has admitted to the possibility that he's a little manic right now (I truly believe he has a very very mild form of bipolar disorder). He did finally say a couple days ago that maybe he shouldn't have scheduled this trip. And this morning as I took him to the airport, he spoke about the possibility of buying a less expensive place in the little town in Baja rather than oceanfront property, and also spoke about the possibility of buying less expensive beachfront in a more remote area north of town.
As to the question of MLC that someone raised -yes, definitely that's part of it. H has a big fear of death and dying, and right now, a woman physician/colleague of his that has been a climbing partner on some past adventures (NO EA there, don't worry!) is undergoing treatment for breast cancer. So H is looking ahead and thinking "I don't want to work and work and then when I finally retire, get sick and die". (Never mind that his grandparents are in their 90's and going strong, or that his parents are 70 and his mom still skis and his dad still does the earth-moving jobs for his own construction company!!! ).
The thing is - I totally get that. I'm open to radical lifestyle changes and adventures - truly. I just worry that A) his dissatisfaction with work has little to do with the (relatively minor) issues at work and more to do with his underlying depression, and B) his problems won't be solved by running off to some exotic locale, especially since he is such a social person who really enjoys his friends.
I also worry that this is more about having a "project" to concentrate on - in which case, planning another trans-Sierra ski crossing would be a whole lot cheaper!!!!!
Well, 2 days of peace and quiet here while he's gone (although tomorrow I am taking D14 and 2 of her friends to Disneyland for the day in lieu of a 15th birthday party next week). S13 is settling into school really nicely since we got his classes changed, and has been surfing every day after school, much to my H's delight (he thought NONE of his kids would become surfers ).
And S18 called me from Berkeley last night, where he'd just had his first midterm (in philosophy) and was feeling really good about the exam .
Thanks all.
Ellie
Hi, Ellie!
I'm glad to see you posting about your own sitch so much these days! We don't get enough of you around here usually.
I am taking a childbirth education class with S., which is a 6-week affair. The business is booming, the classes are full, and the whole thing is run by a former midwife and educator who decided to teach her own classes after having worked for various hospitals and birthing centers. Why not start some kind of business like that? I'm not sure WHAT you would teach, but find a niche somewhere in your former practice and offer classes. I can tell you more about her model if you're interested.
I did a similar thing with a scholarly proofreading course I ran a few years ago. I decided there were a lot of proofreaders and copyeditors in New York, but none qualified as I was to do scholarly work for university presses. So I designed a course, marketed it to grad students in the humanities who had no hope for a job in academia (because of saturation, not lack of ability!), and ran it out of a rented space in Manhattan. It was a success, and I made a lot of money in a few hours. If I had kept it up, I could have rented my own space and started a school. But I went on to a different kind of editing, and so I let my course lapse.
Anyway, that was something I thought of that would take less time and net more money.
Great news about S18!
Jennifer
Ellie,
Jennifer has a couple of wonderful ideas here for you! I thought they were both smashing!
Great news about S18. Those first year midterms and finals can be very emotionally draining. Enjoy Disneyland (gosh, I haven't been there since I was 11!) and the Ellie-time while H is away.
M
Hi Ellie
You have had lots of good feedback here, not sure that I can add anyting startlingly different. Though I do empathise so much with your quandary, I was in the same position in my M, only I didn't even have the option of a potentially well paid job had I wanted it... It is very dismaying when a woman's work in the home and with her family is totally taken for granted and overlooked or discounted. And about not depending financially on your H, it is SOOO hard when you also want to fulfill the Mummmy/Mommy role as well. It is frightening that around me I hear many folk think it is OK to have latch key kids at age 9 and upwards. I have seen just this evening that Quality Time is very much one of my D's Love Languages. It would break my heart to have her return from school to an empty home.
Can you get work writing popular guides to medicine, like for family medical encyclopedias etc? Is there much work in the medical writing field? It would tie in with your urge to educate!
Perhaps you could set yourself up as a mainstream guru, in the mould of Dr Weil? With your "Dear Ellie" website???
Anyway, that's my little contribution, dear Ellie!
Livnlearn
Well, here's "Dear Ellie" 's dilemma of the day:
Went to Disneyland yesterday with D14, her boyfriend, and a mutual female friend of theirs. Very sweet girl. I noticed during the course of the day that this girl has physical signs suggestive of a medical condition (hyperinsulinemia - possibly due to PCOS or just to her obesity). I think she could probably be helped by current treatments, and this is a sometimes overlooked condition - just not sure how to bring it up with her parent(s) whom I don't know at all. (Parents are divorced, too, so that dynamic may be weird.)
I don't want to be a buttinsky, but I suspect this girl's quality of life and health could be greatly improved with a proper diagnosis and appropriate treatment. Just not sure how best to bring it up.
Ellie
Hi Ellie,
I don't think you'd be a buttinsky...not knowing the parents "at all" isn't good enough. The parent/s trusted you enough to be in charge of their teenage daughter at an amusement park...you would simply be expressing concern over something you noted...treat it no differently than you would noticing her smelling like nicotine after a bathroom run. Your medical backround gives you insight to things others may overlook...worst case the parent feels ignorant for not having noticed something about her own child (but shouldn't unless they share the same medical knowledge as you and even then). If this or another parent noticed something about one of your children that you may or may not know how would you feel about them checking in with you?
Do what you feel is in the best interest of the child and you've got nothing to loose.
LL
I second what Lostlove said. You can say it once and leave it up to them to pursue further.
Livnlearn
Ellie,
I too echo what Lost and Live have said here. With your background, you have an expert opinion/understand of what may be going on. Doing what's in the best interest of the child is the only way to go. Remember your Hypocratic oath...
M
Ellie, in my community there is a well-regarded pediatrician. One day some new people moved in across the street and the doc went out to say hello. He noticed some symptoms in the new neighbor and urged him to go to the emergency room (something to do with circulation and heart). Turns out this guy was a heart attack on legs, and the doc probably saved him a lot of misery by speaking up.
Plus, he's got an awesome reputation around town now!
Call the girl's mom and tell her what you think. If you can refer them to an appropriate doc, do so.
You'll be doing them a huge favor.
-- Michele
Hi Ellie, I've been trying to catch up with you for ages, and finally I think got it done. I had a thought when you were talking about going back to work...it's probably pretty "far out", but it occurred to me that there's a lucrative career in "life coaching" these days. I wondered if you could do something from home like "health coaching"....I dunno, phone coaching on dealing with health-related issues? I suppose the liability issues would be tough, but I bet there'd be a demand for it. what about teaching some kind of health seminars/classes for the public? wouldn't health insurance cover some of that?
just pondering here....
deb -
I've been considering that, but running into insurance roadblocks - still trying to figure that part out.
Ellie
Lottery ticket sounds like a good solution to me El !
Glad you enjoyed your trip to Montreal. It really is the best city in all of Canada. Well, maybe Quebec City comes close.
If you do get her into McGill think about buying a house in the student ghetto. Cheaper than living in residence plus after 4th year you can sell and make some money.
Can you divert your H's attention from Baja to some other, less expensive project? I'm thinking about a shopping trip for some new clothes or an IPod.
...Soup
Ah, darn it Soup, he's got an Ipod already!!!!
Yeah, I'd love to see Quebec City sometime - Montreal was great.
Ellie
Did you get to see "Old Montreal"? Go to any good restaurants? ....Soup
Yeah, we stayed in Old Montreal at a trendy boutique hotel that was really nice, and had some great meals at restaurants in the neighborhood.
Ellie
Leaving tonight to go to parent's weekend to see S18. Will get to have breakfast with GBO while I'm there.
Ellie
Had a nice long breakfast with Gonna Be Okay while in the Bay Area last weekend. She says hi to all, promises she will post an update sometime. She looks good, is dating a really nice guy. Her H, meanwhile, is pulling a lot of the usual divorce craziness - doesn't want to pay what he will have to pay (California is a pretty cut-and-dried no-fault community property state - child support is by formula, property is split, and spousal support is pretty standard for a long marriage with a long-time SAHM.)
He is sending her lists of mutual belongings that include items she owned before the marriage that are family heirlooms of no financial worth at all, listing furniture a friend lent to her after he moved out to replace furniture he took, etc. And the kids report that they hear him and OW fighting at night in the kitchen after they go to bed. Anyone want to take bets that he'll drag out the divorce in order to avoid marrying the OW?
GBO's in a good place, though, able to step back from his craziness and still see the depression underneath it all. Meanwhile enjoying her new life with a nice guy who ISN'T depressed, no walking on eggshells with him. At peace that she did everything she could to try to save her marriage. And leaving everything else in the hands of her very capable divorce attorney.
Afterwards I went to Berkeley to visit with S18 for parents weekend. Is it a good sign that he really wasn't all that anxious to see us???
At least I know he's not homesick or lonely!
We went to the movies with him to see Serenity - what a hoot! Think back to the first time you saw Star Wars - only funnier, with better dialogue and acting. Definitely a must-see.
S18 is still his goofy self (I think H thought he would be miraculously matured in a month!) but seems to be doing okay, that's all I ask at this point.
Ellie
Hi Ellie
Thanks for the update on GonnabeOK. Good for her for getting spousal support. I can dream on!
It's always bitter sweet when our kids reach new milestones that signal their diminishing dependence on us, isn't it?
Bizarrely, I can remember feeling slightly miffed when D's first tooth appeared, no more little toothless grin!
Livnlearn
Ellie,
I'm glad S19 is still living here for now. He's in that in-between phase where he's still a teen, but becoming a man, and it is so hard to know when to let loose and when to hold on. I can't imagine him leaving to go away to college. That would have been very hard for me.
He's talking about moving in with his GF and a friend for 6 months (long story that I'll have to post). I've already expressed my opinion about it. But I have to let him make his own choices, pray he succeeds, and be there to hug him and pick him up if he falls flat on his face.
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He's in that in-between phase where he's still a teen, but becoming a man, and it is so hard to know when to let loose and when to hold on.
Yeah - although S18 is still very much a teen, so in a way it was easier to let go of him (that, and the fact that he'd still let me tie his shoe laces if I'd do it - this is one baby bird who NEEDED to be pushed out of the nest! ). He's easy, though, because my biggest worries about him are whether he will manage his time well and get to sleep early enough to not miss his classes. I'm not worried about him drinking or doing drugs (he doesn't) or getting some girl pregnant (he'd have to ask one on a date first!). He doesn't even have a car there, so that's not a worry. I guess my years to worry about him are still ahead of me, huh?
Ellie
Got a postcard from Hawaii yesterday, from my XSIL. This was the third wife of my older brother, who dumped her just before my H dropped the bomb on me. I didn't know about DBing at the time, and told her frankly that he had treated her badly for years, she deserved better, and this was a pattern with him. She really loved my brother, but as her friends urged her the same, she started dating again, and right off the bat met a nice guy who incidentally happens to be wealthy (not the attraction for her, but a nice bonus!).
Now, three years later, my brother's girlfriend (OW or not, we're not sure) has dropped him, the divorce is settled (he was shocked! that she didn't just roll over like his previous two wives and actually wanted her fair share of their assets)and XSIL is still with the nice, wealthy guy. She sent me a postcard from Kauai, where they were vacationing, and had just bought a place in Princeville to be used as a future retirement home.
I'm glad for her, that things are going well for her, and sorry for my brother, but not too sorry, that he is in a hell of his own making.
Ellie
Well, I finally spoke with D's friend's parents about what I think is their D's medical condition and the talk went well. I hope this will help her get the treatment she needs (she has PCOS, I'm sure of it). She's a sweet girl, and I know her life will be better once this gets under control.
Ellie
Good for you, Ellie!
I'm now in Surviving the big D....
Livnlearn
Ellie,
Just curious about what the physical signs were that your daughter's friend was showing. My 18 yr old D is also very obese. It is mainly around her middle. At the risk of sounding crude, it looks as if she has an "inner tube" around her waist. She has dieted before and has been able to drop 20 lbs. but within a month's time, it ballooned back plus some. All of this was in the middle of her actively playing softball. She's 5' 3" and weighs approx. 215. I'm very concerned about her weight. I have taken her to an endocrinologist and they found nothing. Very curious about what hyperinsulinemia and PCOS is.
Also, so glad to hear about GBO. I do wish she were still posting. I got so much wisdom from her and still get lots from you as I read these posts and keep up with you guys. It helps me to try to keep my life in perspective. Just knowing that I'm not the only one that has marital difficulties is a help.
Great to hear that your son is doing well with college. I know you are so proud of him.
I DO think you were right to speak with your D's friend's parents. I know I would appreciate it if I were in that same situation.
farmgirl
Hi, Ellie!
So sorry to be missing your visits to Berkeley,
but I'm on my grand adventure in the mini van.
My Berkeley cottage sold for a happy sum.
Bought a mini van and am tootling around the north woods.
Came to Mt. Shasta for the film fest, am staying for the
atmosphere and good water. May winter here. Though also
love southern Oregon.
Will likely find a place to rent b4 committing
to buying a new house.
Ah, I had a big cry yesterday, so much healing!
Redhead was left to handle the closing and final
distribution of our household goods. He did a wonderful
job -- saved me a lot of anguish.
We'd had heated words for EVER until I said I needed
him to handle things and I WASN'T COMING BACK to get
yelled at.
He took the challenge and even payed the insurance
on my new van.
Why am I crying?
Cuz that former HORRIBLE brat told me he wanted to be generous to me bcuz I had been gracious and giving
to him over so many years.
I am really moved.
You know he'd been crabby and pinched and hostile he'd been.
Sigh.
Sending you crystal energy. The workers at this cafe
just got back from helping with hurricane relief in
Mississippi. Wow! People are awesome, eh?
Glad to hear your son is enjoying Cal.
I'll keep in touch wherever I land.
Thanks for your good wishes.
I think I missed your earlier message,
though. Perhaps cuz there's another Bridget?
I'm Bridget with a "d" and I'm still in Hopefullnes..
Love love love,
The grrrlll with the twangy dulcimer
Bridget -
I sent the message to the email address i had for you from before - is that no longer good? I was writing to you about
www.nanowrimo.org - I think this is how you should spend you November - check it out.
Farmgirl - my D's friend had a skin discoloration called acanthosis nigricans - dark discoloration in the skin fold behind her neck, in her cleavage, and probably under her armpits. It is a symptom of insulin resistance, most commonly due to polycystic ovary syndrome, but can also be seen in Cushing's disease or some other disorders. In both Cushing's and PCOS the weight gain tends to be central (apple shape). Women with PCOS often have excess body hair, irregular periods, infertility, and acne.
If you want to discuss your daughter's issues in more detail, send me an email at
elliestough@hotmail.com and send me any lab results you have from that endocrinologist's visit. A lot of doctors (yes, even endocrinologists) can miss these syndromes.
Ellie
Bridget,
I ran across some of your posts and my, my your words are like floating angels.
You inspire, empathize, encourage, smile through commas, and posses a beautiful spirit you choose to share with others.
Your wings and ability to fly give strength to both strangers and friends.
Thank you