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Posted By: ValerieA Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/21/05 09:52 PM
Hi there. I've been posting in Infidelity, and I am hoping I belong here now.

I don't know how to link my threads but here they are:

Thread #1: "What happens now?"
Thread #2: "When will H's indecision end?"
Thread #3: "He's leaving"

I'll try to post a brief recap now.

H -- 30 (turns 31 in June; frequently travels for work)
Me -- 30 (just turned 30; SAHM)
M -- May 97 (together since May 93)
3 sons -- 9, 5, and 7 mos.
EA -- began early Oct 04
bomb dropped -- late Jan 05

Post-bomb in early Feb 05, H had given me the "ILYBINILWY" dilemma and said he wanted a D because everything he had done in our life together was for my happiness alone. H stated that I knew he never wanted to be a father or a married man. When I (reluctantly) agreed to a D and told H I would be seeking an ATTY, he seemed to have changed his mind overnight. H said he realized that he did in fact love me and did not want a D.

It's been nearly 3 months since the bomb dropped, and I have been on one heck of a roller coaster ride! Who here hasn't, right?

My H has gone back and forth with his indecision to leave. He is having a REALLY difficult time with his overwhelming feelings of guilt. H has said sooo many times that he just doesn't know what to do, and he has tried to put me in the position of making that choice for him. I don't want to do that, but I have told H a few times to leave, and everytime he said he would. BUUUUT....H still remains everytime.

H has been working in AZ for the past 3 weeks and recently came home on this past Tuesday. Before arriving, he was going to leave again after visiting with the kids for awhile. It is now Thursday, and he is still here.

My H made a comment to me in a past R talk that almost everytime he looks at me (doesn't matter what I'm doing), his feelings of guilt suffocate him. These are the times when I see him trying to fight the tears, and these are the times when H feels he wants to leave because he feels I deserve better than him. H just had another of these moments yesterday.

I believe my H wants to be here with me, but like I said, he has a TREMENDOUS amount of guilt that he needs to work through. H will not seek any outside help, and I have come to realize that I cannot speed up the process for him.

I am not a patient person by nature. I used to be looong ago, but it has seriously diminished over the years. I really don't know why.

Lately I've been getting all tangled and mixed up in the drama of my sitch. I am spent, both emotionally and physically. After I began DBing 2 months ago, I was GAL, detaching, and my PMA was looking pretty good. Now, with everything weighing on me (yes, because I let it) due to the continuance of my sitch going back and forth, I am numb and my PMA is nowhere in sight right now. I feel lost.

My H is still home, and I know that is GOOD. Because of the back and forth thing, I feel like this may be my last chance. I don't know how much more I can take, and I'm sure H could be feeling the same way.

H is working in town today and has been in and out of the house.

I read DR again last night, and I've made some changes to my goals. I will post them in the next post (as soon as I can), and I want to respond to the last few replies from my previous thread.

Thank you all for listening.

JV
Posted By: BeingMe Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/21/05 10:21 PM
As you say, a rollercoaster. I can only give you the advice most would on the bb, and that is to work on yourself. Make positive 180's, have patience, and try not to initiate R talks. I know, I know, really hard, isn't it? I tried and failed. My H also had an EA, with a woman he knew in high school, so not much chance of my winning my H back, but you still have a chance. All you can do is your best, and if that doesn't work, then you know you've tried. That is my attitude now. I tried, and it wasn't enough for him, so I move on.

Keep posting, and good luck with your sitch. Don't we all need that, 'eh? Good luck, and a miracle or two would not go amiss.
Posted By: sage Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/22/05 12:12 PM
Woohoo! Welcome! I'm glad to see you here in Piecing.

Definitely do some poking around here...there's lots of good threads to help you navigate these waters.

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/22/05 11:20 PM
Thank you, BeingMe. I do appreciate your words and advice.

Sage, as always, you're great! Thanks for the welcoming.

Alright now. This will probably be a long post, and I may have to stop from time to time. Sorry!

Since I'm acting as if my H wants to rebuild our M, here are my goals:

1) I would like H to take me out more often whether it's to a movie, the city, a theme park, or anything else we did when we were first dating. H would surprise me every now and then by having made arrangements for a sitter himself.

2) H would make pleasant chit-chat with me more. About anything is fine so we could become friends again. H would hold my hand, put his arm around me, etc as we walk together side by side. This would make me feel like we are connected both emotionally and physically.

3) I want to be able to put a reign on my emotions during R talks (these will happen from time to time and are initiated by H). I want to control my reactions and not take any negative comments from H personally (very hard not to). I want to listen, validate, and think before I speak.

4) I would like to have total faith and trust in H again. H will call often to let me know what he's doing or planning to do. When H speaks of future plans, he will include "we" or "us" in them. H will say "ILY" often again.

5) When H suggests doing any kinds of activities together, I will (mildly) enthusiastically agree. H has done for me, I need to do for him now. Who knows? I may find that I enjoy these things as well as H !

6) This goal is for later down the road -- I would like to go back to school when S7mos is a bit older (maybe 2 or 3). I want to begin a career to help take some of the financial burden off of H. I know he would be very supportive of this.

I would like to add that I have seen some progress with goal #4. H does tell me his plans and occasionally calls throughout the day. When he got home from AZ on Tuesday, H had said, "If we ever move to AZ....". My H was saying "ILY" often but hasn't for a month now.

H did ask on Tuesday, "So what's up with a babysitter for next Wednesday? Maybe we can go play in the poker tournament together." I would've rather done something else, but for now I agreed. Finding a sitter on a school night will be tough though.

Well, on Tuesday, H was nice. If I got up to get something, he stopped me by saying, "I'll get it." He ordered out for dinner so I wouldn't have to cook. When we went to bed, he gave me a kiss goodnight and held me close.

On Wednesday, I caught H just looking at me from time to time. I asked "What?", and he just shook his head as if to say "nothing". Later that day, H had another "down" moment. I could tell he was holding his tears in while giving me a hug. I didn't ask what was wrong because I knew it had to do with his guilt again. I used to ask or say "it's alright/ok", but later H told me he didn't want to hear that. (So, if anything, what does H want to hear?) Now I just try to comfort H by hugging him and rubbing his back.

Yesterday, H was a little better. He took S9 and S5 bowling after school. Later when I was outside with the baby, H came out with us. We talked about doing some stuff to the backyard. It was silent for a moment then H asked, "If things don't work out, what do you want to do about the house?" I would like to say that I was stunned, but I wasn't. It's the back and forth issue again. I told H that I wanted to sell the house. H said, "Well...how do you think that's going to affect the kids uprooting them like that?" I said (which I probably shouldn't have), "If we split up, they're going to be affected either way." H said, "...Yeah.....You're right."

Awhile later, I was going into our bedroom to get my shoes to take S9 to Tae Kwon Do. I got to the closet and looked over at H's nightstand. There, open in plain view, was the letter I had written to H back in Feb when we were fighting in Reno. The one he found in the suitcase while in AZ.....Ok, I'm thinking to myself, "Why is this here like this? In plain view as if H just read it or wanted me to see it? After explaining to H that was how I felt at THAT moment and NOT NOW, why didn't he tear it up or just throw it away? Why did he hold onto it?"

For some reason, I became angry. I took the letter and started ripping it to pieces as I was walking past H on the way to the garbage. H asked, "What's that?" I didn't respond so he asked again. I said "nothing". H asked what was wrong, and again, I said "nothing". He asked, "Did I do something wrong?" I said, "No. It's my problem. Just let me deal with it please. Let's go, (S9)!"

When I got back from dropping S9 off, H wanted to continue the convo asking why was I upset. I told him, "I don't understand why that letter was on your nightstand. Why didn't you just throw it away after I explained that it meant nothing anymore?" H said, "I don't know why I didn't throw it away or why I put it there. I'm sorry." I said, "Ok." Then H said, "Sometimes I feel like that letter is......", then S5 came along and the convo ended there.

Later I went up to H and apologized for being upset. H said it was alright and I didn't need to say sorry. I said I felt that I did need to. I leaned over to give H a kiss, but I got a cold cheek instead . Oh well.

There was no closeness in bed last night either. I'm not talking about . I just mean he stayed on his side and me on mine. We did at least say "good night" to each other.

Today H has been in and out again all day for work.

I've been looking back at the past few days since H got back, and once again, I notice my PMA is not there. Yes, we have talked and laughed here and there, but nothing more. I know if I don't watch it, I'm going to blow it, but I just can't seem to find my way right now.

I feel like I really could use some "JV" time. Just some time to myself to relax. Some time without H or the kids. But that is pretty impossible right now. H works, my relatives have to work, and I have to be with the boys. Hopefully, when my parents get back from vacation next week, they'll offer to watch them for the weekend.

Ok, I told you this would probably be long ! H just called and we're taking the kids out for dinner. I'm sure we'll have a pleasant time.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: sage Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/23/05 02:48 PM
J -- One of the things that my h has told me he really has a hard time dealing with is if I'm upset and he doesn't know why. My 2 cents is that next time h asks, give him a more detailed answer. It's great to "own" your feelings and tell him it's "my stuff" but the exchange still seemed a little confusing. It's ok to say "I'm having a hard time dealing with xyz. It's nothing you've done" etc.

Now...if you ARE angry or upset with him, best not to fib about it. For the time being it may be best to keep your negative emotions to yourself BUT that also means don't display them on your face, in your actions, etc.

I'm not suggesting that you stuff your feelings forever but DB'ing has definitely helped me to see that not every feeling has to be "expressed".

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/23/05 06:00 PM
Hello there.

Quote:

Now...if you ARE angry or upset with him, best not to fib about it. For the time being it may be best to keep your negative emotions to yourself BUT that also means don't display them on your face, in your actions, etc.



You're right, Sage. Like I posted yesterday, I've noticed that I've been feeling down for awhile, and I know I haven't done much to not show it since H got back. It's been so hard with all the draining emotions I've dealt with lately. I know I need to stop this NOW, and I'll do my best to be upbeat. I have to remind myself that H is still home, and I want him to be, so I need to make being home appealing for H.

Ok now. We went out for dinner last night with the kids, and we had a nice time like I knew we would.

H's co-worker came to the house when we returned so they could prepare their equipment for today's installs. When they were done, H asked if he could go play cards. I said sure, it was fine. H said, "Are you sure? I won't go if it's going to bother you." I said, "It's fine. I'm not bothered." He said thanks and gave me a hug and small kiss. As he was leaving, H said, "Alright, I'll see you when I get back. You can call me if you get bored or whatever, and I'll call you when I'm on my way home. ILY ." I told H, "ILY, too. Good luck!"

I have been waiting for a month (it seems like forever) for H to say those words to me again! He did, and I think I can see a little of my PMA emerging !

Another positive, H called me several times throughout the night. The first call was about 20 minutes after he left to say, "I just wanted to thank you again for letting me go play tonight. I appreciate it." After that, H called every hour or so just to chat a bit and let me know how he was doing. I received another "ILY" in one of those calls.

I was asleep by the time H got home. He got back very late, or I should say very early before dawn. I don't particularly like it, but when playing poker, it happens on occasion. Anyway, I remember H getting into bed and pulling me close.

A few hours later when it was time to get up, H wanted ! I can't remember the last time when this went on in the morning! Later, we got dressed, had breakfast, and then H had to go to work. He gave me a back rub then a kiss followed by a smile with an "ILY".

A very nice start to hopefully a very nice day!

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/23/05 10:41 PM
Hey there.

I just remembered something from the first call I got from H last night.

H has lost a tremendous amount of weight over the past year (for health reasons). He looks really good and feels really good!

During our phone convo, H was talking about the 7 pounds he dropped while in AZ. H said, "You didn't even notice, did you?" I said yes I did. He asked why I didn't say anything then. I told H I was sorry and I guess I just wasn't thinking. H said, "Well, I've lost all that weight and I'm in alot better shape now, but you've never really said anything." I said, "I'm really sorry, H. I guess since I see you all the time, it just doesn't hit me. I do notice though. Plus after having the call before you got here (H telling me he was leaving again), I didn't know what to say when you got here." Then H said, "Look. I don't care if we're fighting, getting along, playing cards, having , or whatever. I'm not fishing for compliments, but just tell me when you see any difference in me please." Again, I said I was sorry and I would do just that.

So...another positive, right? H is telling me he wants to be complimented much more. I say much more because I DO give him compliments, but evidently not as much as H would like.

Just wanted to get that down. Thanks.

JV
Posted By: dodgermf Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/24/05 12:26 AM
Here are the links to JVJKB's threads:

Thread #1:
What Happens Now?

Thread #2:
When Will H's Indecision End?

Thread #3:
He's Leaving


Here you go JV!!!

DMF

LAD 12-4
Posted By: andrea Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/24/05 01:59 AM
JV
I passed all night reading your posts... and yes, i can identify so much with your sitch... my h is telling me he same.. he is confuse... he is not happy... he feels his happiness is somewhere else and not with me... but at the same time he cant make any decission of leaving... someimes he said he doesnt wants to mistake again (we had been separate 2 times before and he came back home always telling me there is nothing better than me out there)... i always told him i will not take any decission but that i wil be ok if he decide to D... i will cry a little, miss him, but life continue and sure will be a beautifull one... that i wil love to save my M but that i want to feel loved...!!... I accept i push and pressure a lot by R talks... maybe bc i am so afraid that the final decission from him will be D so why waiting for more time, hurting myself more... reading your post makes me think if maybe i will need to stop any R and wait till time pass... but at the minut later i am o afraid losing time doing that... so... isnt easy... is too hard... i also have 3 kids, they see daddy and mamy so united, sharing moments... they dont know nothing about no intimacy at all between us... thinking of them makes me feel so guilty and sad if this will end on a D... if you can read my post here...
Andrea
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/24/05 06:23 PM
Oh wow, D!!!

Thank you so much for taking the time to do that! You rock!

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/24/05 06:57 PM
Hi, Andrea. Thank you for reading my posts.

I completely understand what you mean and what you're going through, and I can sympathize.

It sounds like you've reacted in your sitch like I have in mine many times.

I, too, am afraid that my H will make the decision to D, but others here on the site have pointed out one HUGE fact to me: I have been fearing something that HAS NOT happened. I've been obsessing over it for so long that it has taken on a life of it's own.

You and I have to both realize the biggest positive in our sitches. OUR Hs ARE STILL HOME.

I can't offer much advice right now because my sitch has taken alot out of me lately, but I will say that you need to stop all R talks. They don't help anything.

I know you have needs that you want met, but right now, it's all about your H and his feelings. Yeah, it's hard for us to be on the back burner, but it just has to be that way for now. Give your H alot of time and space. He needs it more than you know.

If you really want to salvage your M, you have to have PATIENCE. A great deal of it. This is my biggest challenge in all of this. I want to be happy, I want to move on with my H, and I want our M to be terrific. But again, time and patience. Time and patience.

I will read your thread, too. Thanks again for stopping by.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/24/05 11:59 PM
Hi everyone.

H isn't here right now. So I want to update.

Another night of poker for H last night. He asked me if it was alright, and I said yes. Honestly, I was not alright with it at all. I wish he would have just stayed home with me, but if I said that to H, he would've probably gotten a little moody. Yes, I know. I'm ASSuming, but that has always been the outcome when H didn't get to go do what he wanted.

MAJOR backslide this morning, and it was all me . I completely ignored goal #3 (controlling my emotions).

I wasn't too happy this morning to begin with. H had gotten home late again from playing cards.....Before I go any further, I want to explain that my H does not have a gambling problem in case anyone might be concerned. H knows his limits and always has.

So this morning I'm hoping (and having expectations I know I shouldn't have) that H will want to stay home today and do something with me and the kids. Well, I overheard H on the phone with a friend talking about taking S9 and S5 fishing for a few hours , but after that, H wanted to go play cards with this friend . I was disappointed to hear this. Then my disappointment turned into anger, and I backslide BIG TIME.

I was trying to get the boys ready for their fishing trip. At the same time, they were fighting with each other, the baby's crying, and H is yelling in the background, "Go get the baby, JV!" I yelled, "I AM! YOU HANDLE THESE TWO THEN!......When do I get some time to myself, H?! When are you going to help me out more with these boys?! I love them, but I need a break!!! You're gone all the time, and I'm left here all alone with them while you're out doing your thing!" H then yells back, "Well, this is what you wanted! You wanted to be a housewife, and now you want to complain about your life! You f***ing asked for it!" I said, "I'm not complaining about being a housewife or my life! I'm just trying to tell you I need a break!" Then I went into our room (this is what I do when I want to be left alone to cool down), shut and locked the door behind me to get away from H. He came after me, got very angry since the door was locked, and broke it open! Then he walked away. I looked at the door and said, "That's nice, H. That's just great."

H went about doing some things before taking the boys fishing. He later said (still mad), "I'm sorry I broke the door. But when you walk away from me like that, it p*sses me off! It's f***ing childish! Don't do it again!" I said (still mad, too), "I'm sorry I acted the way I did, but you've gone to play poker two nights in a row, and when I heard you say you were going again tonight, I lost it. I just blew up. I just wish you would've taken into consideration the fact that I AM here all the time with the kids, and that I DO need a break every now and then! I know you go through a ton of stress with work and everything else. Sometimes I think you think I have it alot easier, and I don't! I'm stressed out, too, H!" H said, "I know you are, JV! But if you want help, well, you just went about it the wrong f***ing way! But like I said before, this is what you wanted so you have to live with it!" I just looked at him and said, "Why are you here, H? All the hundreds of times you've said that you were going to leave, why are you still here?!" H didn't answer me.

Later when H and the boys were leaving, H snidely said, "Enjoy your day, JV." I said, "You do the same, H."

They got back a couple of hours later. S9 came up to me and asked, "How has your day been, Mom?" I told him fine and thanked him for asking. Now, S9 has never asked me anything like that before so I'm ASSuming that H had him ask me. Oh well. I will admit it was nice.

Then H came up to me and showed me pictures he took on his phone of the boys holding the fish they caught. I smiled and said, "That's cool. I'm glad they had fun." I wasn't upset anymore at this point and thought since H was being pleasant, he was probably over the argument as well. Then H left to go to Home Depot to buy a new door.

When he came back, he tried to put it up, but it didn't fit right. H said it needed to be shaved down to size so now he was going to have to buy a shaver. H said, "That's wonderful.....Don't walk away from me anymore, JV. Don't f***ing make me do that again." I could feel my blood beginning to boil again, but I didn't say a word. I just sat there and let H say whatever he wanted.

After awhile, H came in the living room and said, "I'm leaving." I had nothing to say so H said, "Aren't you going to ask me where I'm going?" I shook my head and said "no". H said, "I'm going to help (co-worker) with his last two installs for today then I'm going to (inaudible). I know you don't care, but I'm telling you so your mind won't be going crazy thinking whatever it is you think. Bye." I said "bye", too, then he left.

(BIG LOOONG SIIIIGGGGHHHH)......What's done is done. I can't take it back. This whole thing was my fault, and I know it. I let my anger, stress, and frustration get the better of me, and now, of course, I regret it.

What can I do to fix this? I can say I'm sorry, which I am, but will H accept it? I don't know.

Thank you for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/25/05 04:18 AM
Hi again. More updating:

So...H is out playing poker again tonight. I had S9 and S5 call him to say good night then S9 said Dad wanted to talk to me:

Me: "Hello?"
H(upbeat): "Hey! What's going on?"
Me: "Nothing. I was just having the boys call you to say good night."
H: "Oh, ok....Dude, I'm being totally serious right now. If I can make money like this whenever I come to play, I will quit my job tomorrow. I'm not kidding. I'm playing beyond tight right now (basically this means H is playing smart -- like the real poker professionals you see on TV). I would love to do this for a living! I have to get back to the table. I'll talk to you later. Bye."
Me: "Bye."

Ok...it "seems" again as if H is over what happened earlier today. I hope so, and when he gets home, I won't mention a thing.

H has talked about wanting to play poker professionally for a long time. He plays in higher limit games where on a good night, and if you play smart, it's possible to make a grand or two in that night. But along with the good comes the bad. It's also possible to lose just as much if you play wrecklessly or you're just not getting any good hands.

I know H loves poker, and he IS a very intellegent, disciplined player. I think he could do very well in this. BUT...I don't like how much time is involved in it. H would be gone everyday. I just know he would. He would do things with the kids from time to time, but as usual, I would be last on his priority list. That's just how it is. H even told me that himself.

It's been this way for so long. The only thing H seems to ever want to do together now is play cards. It's not even something that can be done together. We ride in the same car to get there, but then we sit at different tables because H plays high limit, and I play low limit.

Like I said, it's been this way for so long. Years to be exact. Other than H losing all the weight that he has, I see no other positive changes in him.

Am I experiencing resentment here? I've been thinking about that for some time now. I don't want to become bitter and angry for feeling neglected, but at times I feel like I am heading in that direction.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/25/05 06:32 PM
Hello.

Just updating the sitch:

H got home at about 1am. I was still awake. I was tired, but not enough to be able to fall asleep.

I was a little irked about him coming home late again, but I was able to put a choke chain on my feelings . I just went with the flow and listened to H tell me about the good hands he made. I cheered H on when he told me about the huge pots he won. He liked that !

We went to bed not too long after that. Since all was going well, I took the opportunity to initiate closeness. I unfolded his arm to put it around me while H talked some more until we were both just about asleep. I sat up a bit, said "Good night", and gave H a tender kiss. He matched my intensity, we cuddled, and fell asleep .

This morning, everything is still going good. H is out working, and I just got back from shopping with my neighbor.

Ok, I'm going to make some homemade chili now. H loves the way the house smells when I make it. It should be a nice surprise when H gets home from work!

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: dodgermf Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/25/05 06:47 PM
JV,

In the brief words of the noted thinker, Napoleon Dynamite...

"AAAAUUGHHHHH, LUCKY!!!"

Congrats JV, I'm really happy for you. Keep it going. You inspire...

DMF
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/26/05 12:49 AM
Thanks, D! You made me smile just now !

Weeelllllll......So much for H coming home to the delicious aroma of my chili.

I just called to see how H's day was going and to ask when he thought he'd get home, but guess what? He's out playing cards again . So let's see.....that makes 4 nights in a row , and what's worse is that H said he's down some money. If he doesn't at least break even tonight, I know H will come home in a foul mood. He will still gripe about it in the morning as well.......I'm crossing my fingers H at least breaks even.

Well if anything, I hope H can still smell the chili when he gets here (it's been cooking all day) and realizes what he missed tonight. His loss. He gets to nuke it in the microwave later.

Thanks.

JV
Posted By: cally Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/26/05 01:49 PM
JV,

I have read all of your posts and my heart does go out to you. I can see why you are feeling resentment. Your husband was gone for three weeks and then gets back and is out every night playing poker. He spends so much time away with traveling you would think when he got home his priority would be to spend as much time at home as he could.

What made me respond is I know you had mentioned your husband has anxiety attacks when he is away from home. I know what it feels like to have these and suffer from it. And it sounds like your husband needs some counseling. It scared me to read that he would break down a door like that when the children are right there at home and use that kind of language. Then scream at you that this is what you wanted deal with it. Do you think it is possible that he would agree to some kind of counseling. Maybe his anxiety goes deeper and he has some sort of depression or is manic depressive?

I know it can be hard to force someone to go, they have to want the counseling. I wish my own husband would get counseling because I think he is depressed. He had done some whacky things himself over the last year. I just started to post here not long ago. I feel like I could post on many of the boards. I have just hit the surface with how my marriage has been.

Just wanted to tell you I feel for you. It seems you are such a strong woman.
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/26/05 08:45 PM
Hey there.

Thank you for reading my posts, for your understanding, and for your words, cally. I truly appreciate it.

I've been feeling resentful for what seems like forever. H has had this current job of his for nearly 3 years now, and nothing seems to have gotten any better. Yes...H travels alot and is gone for anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks at a time....and everytime he returns home, he will do things with the kids for a day or two but never me. I don't even get asked to go along. I'm very fortunate if H takes me out to dinner once every 2 months.

Yes, my H has a very terrible temper. I've learned to deal with it by just leaving him alone when he gets that way. When he does come around, he will apologize. Luckily with the other day's incident, the boys were already outside and didn't have to witness it. The language...yeah, it's bad and I hate it, but that's just how H is. The swearing is there whether he's in a good or bad mood. I guess I've learned to ignore it for the most part.

I totally agree about H needing counseling, but yes, he has to want it and he does not. H has told me that he WILL NOT go for fear of what the doctor will tell him. I asked H a few times over the past 2 years to just try it once, but he refuses everytime, so I don't even bother anymore.

I hate to say it because I know every individual is their own self, but knowing what I know about my H's father, my H seems to be very similar to him. We all resemble our parents in some way, right? I just say this because everything H is doing is what his dad did. They (H and his dad) both had As, said/say this isn't the life they wanted, stuck/are sticking around for the kids' sake, and were/are constantly out playing poker instead of being home during their free time.

I am afraid that my H is only here out of convenience. I think he has a connection with me in some way but not in a way that would help him see what he could be doing to make us both happier (I know, I know -- it has to be all me right now). H is a selfish person by his own admission and told me in a past R talk that he can't let me go because of it.

I love him and I resent him at the same time. Lately, the resentment far outweighs the feelings of love. I'm beginning to feel a little like a WAW. I've told (or maybe "nagged" in his mind) H many times prebomb and only twice post-bomb about my wanting to go out together much more often, and even though he said once "let's do it", still nothing changes.

I have asked for more , it picked up a little then went away again. We have ML only once in the past month, but yeah, H was away for 3 weeks of it. I've tried giving little hints here and there since H has been home, but since he gets back so late from playing cards, his excuse in action is turning his back to me or just saying "good night" and nothing more.

So lately, I just keep my mouth shut, but inside I'm burning up.

I may seem strong at times, but right now is not one of them.

Well, H told me earlier today that he's leaving for AZ again tomorrow. He's got a show to work there with his boss and he'll stay there to do the installs. H said not this weekend but the next there is a show to work in Napa, and after the installs are done for that one, he will have about 3 weeks off before the next show comes along.

Hmmm.....I wonder what H will do during that time off?

Hmmm.....I wonder what H will be doing tonight since he's leaving tomorrow?

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder....

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: SherryL Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/27/05 02:50 AM
Hi JV,

I feel your pain. I struggle with resentment and wanting to work on M, too, all in the same breath sometimes. Sometimes the resentment seems to win.

You are strong, even though, you may not feel it right now. I have read your thread for awhile now and know you are.
The hard part is keeping these feelings inside and pretending it is okay. But remember to focus on YOU and what makes you happy. Do stuff for JV. I have decided to do that, to just not worry about my H. I can't make him want to be with me or the family. But, I will be there for my kids. He is the one losing out.
Sorry for the rambling. Just my two cents worth.
Sherry
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/27/05 09:05 PM
Hello everyone.

Sherry, thank you for the support. It helps when someone else can relate. I've just been doubting alot of things lately. Is this what I want? Am I happy trying to make my M work? Am I able to do this alone? Will H ever understand if I'm unsure myself? I just don't know. Too many things are constantly going through my mind.

I NEED to go back to GAL!!! I haven't been able to do anything for myself for awhile now, and my PMA is suffering because of it.

Anyway, H actually stayed home last night . He went to his buddy's house for about 30 minutes to give him stuff for some installs this weekend then he came back. We watched a movie together (it's been a long while) then went to bed. It was a nice time.

Well, I backslid a bit today.

H will most likely be leaving for AZ this evening, so he picked up S5 from kindergarten and took S9 out of school early this afternoon. H wanted to take them out for mini-golf and bowling. Of course, I wasn't invited to go along.

MIL called the house. I had my hands full with the baby and just let the machine answer. She said, "JV? Is H there? Well, I just wanted to know if I'm supposed to meet them at the bowling alley or what. Have H call me."

... Needless to say, I was sad and bothered that H invited his mom but not me. So I called his cell, and since he didn't answer, I left him my backsliding message, "Your mom called and wants to know if she should meet you at the bowling alley...It's nice that you invited her and not me." Yeah, I will admit that I was being a baby . Sorry.

Shortly after that, H called but I didn't answer. He said that they were riding the go-carts when I called and were leaving the fun park to go bowling. H said, "If you'd like to come, you can. Call me and let me know."

H called back within a minute and said that he had just checked his voicemail and heard my message. H then said, "You can totally come with us! I would like that. I wish you would answer. Maybe you're busy with (baby). Call me back, and I'll try your cell."

So I did call him back. H said he was sorry for not asking me; he just didn't think to ask. H said, "I'm sorry. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. Do you want to come?" I said that was alright, and to go ahead and take his mom since she wanted to go. H said that we could all go, but I told him that I didn't feel like seeing his mom right now because I've been avoiding her. She was calling all the time while H was away to see how things were going between us. I told H thanks, but maybe next time. He said alright then we hung up.

So, yes, I backslid a little today but seemed to have recovered from it ok.

Well...H DID ask me to go along. A small baby step there? I have to say that it did make me feel better.

He also asked me if I could get his things together for his trip, and I said sure.

Ok, that's all for now. Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: sage Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/28/05 12:48 PM
JV -- One thing that came out of your "mild" backslide was finding out that h's not inviting you wasn't the slight you imagined. IOW, you found out that he would, in fact, love for you to come but that he hadn't thought to ask.

That's great!

One of the things that's really liberating for me (when I'm successful doing it!) is realizing that h's actions (or inactions) aren't, in fact, about me...iow, for many years I walked around thinking that whatever h did or didn't do was some reflection on how he felt about me...if he left dishes in the sink it was OBVIOUSLY to piss me off, if he forgot milk at the store it was a tacit dig at me (didn't he KNOW how hard I was working? How could he be so thoughtless TO ME!), etc. What it left me with was a lot of anger and resentment and the "screw you" attitude that was not mighty attractive.

Sometime around dday I just dropped the "script" of "what h does is a reflection of his feelings". It may sound completely absurd and impossible to do but, like many things, it's just a habit to be broken. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it (LOL! as if! ) but now I find that I can counsel myself...if I get home and feel frustrated because the clothes are still in the washing machine and I catch myself thinking "I can't believe he did this TO ME!" I am able to catch myself before resentment takes over. I just remind myself (as h did MANY times pre-bomb) "Hey, it's NOT always about ME!"

There are a couple of amazing results that have come from this...

First off, I'm amazed at how much less anger and stress I feel. That seems to have reduced h's anger and stress too! That sort of thing definitely feeds off of each other!

Also, once I stopped "expecting" stuff from h, h started doing more (yes, on his own timeframe but still!). I think the anger/resentment/expectation felt like me trying to control h and he was having NO part of that! But once I eased up on it, well, he really rallied.

Writing this has been a great reminder for me! I'm going to use "maybe it's not a reflection of how s/he feels about me" as my mantra today in ALL interactions!

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/28/05 04:05 PM
Hello, Sage.

Quote:

...is realizing that h's actions (or inactions) aren't, in fact, about me...iow, for many years I walked around thinking that whatever h did or didn't do was some reflection on how he felt about me...if he left dishes in the sink it was OBVIOUSLY to piss me off, if he forgot milk at the store it was a tacit dig at me (didn't he KNOW how hard I was working? How could he be so thoughtless TO ME!), etc. What it left me with was a lot of anger and resentment and the "screw you" attitude that was not mighty attractive.



It's as if I wrote this myself!

I've been feeling like this for way too long (even pre-bomb) and because of it, I have always thought that H just didn't care about my feelings. I always thought he was being selfish. Sure, H bought me new or newer cars, a bigger house, or whatever, but it's never been about those things for me. Evidently "Gifts" is not my LL, huh? It's Quality Time. I've been resenting H because of the lack of time he has given me, and since I mentioned this to H before he got home this last time, I was EXPECTING him to do something about it. Even more so since he hadn't left.

Quote:

Sometime around dday I just dropped the "script" of "what h does is a reflection of his feelings". It may sound completely absurd and impossible to do but, like many things, it's just a habit to be broken. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it (LOL! as if! ) but now I find that I can counsel myself...I am able to catch myself before resentment takes over. I just remind myself..."Hey, it's NOT always about ME!"



WHAT?! You mean you AREN'T perfect?!

It sounds like I need to realize this and do the same. I need to break this bad habit and know that it ISN'T just about ME and it's NOT how H feels about me.

Quote:

Also, once I stopped "expecting" stuff from h, h started doing more (yes, on his own timeframe but still!). I think the anger/resentment/expectation felt like me trying to control h and he was having NO part of that! But once I eased up on it, well, he really rallied.



Again, yes, I have been EXPECTING more time from H. I have to STOP this because since I've been upset about it, I think it's been showing. Well...yeah. It HAS been showing . Gotta STOP!

Thank you so very much, Sage. You seem to understand me better than I do myself many times! I can never thank you enough, and I always look forward to hearing from you. Thanks again!

Alright, I was going to post about last evening's events, but I have repairman here now, so I'll post again in a bit.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/28/05 11:27 PM
Ok now. About yesterday:

H and the boys came home around 4pm or so. They told me all about their great time together!

H took off to go to the gym and came back about an hour and a half later. He took a shower then put his things in the car for his trip. H's best friend (who's a co-worker) was packing equipment from our garage into the work-van.

I was sitting in the living room with the baby while H was in the kitchen. I guess I didn't hear H correctly about the Napa show that I thought was going on next weekend because H said, "....I don't expect this show (in AZ) to do well since it didn't last year, so I should only be gone for 2 weeks at the most 'cuz I gotta stay to do the installs with (bf)." I said, "Oh...I thought you had a Napa show next weekend?" H said, "No, 3 weekends from now. After that, there won't be anything til mid-June."

A short while later, H came up to me and said he was going. My PMA isn't showing because I'm thinking, "Ohhh....another 2 weeks?! How much longer can I do this?!" (Remember -- H has had this job for almost 3 years!!) H gave the baby a kiss goodbye then me. He looked at me for a moment then said, "I'm sorry....I still think you're beautiful." I said, "And I still love you." H said "ILY, too."

H went out into the garage and I followed to see him off. H gave the boys their hugs and kisses goodbye. (bf) wasn't done loading the van yet so we just hung out. H reminded me about the repairman coming out tomorrow (well, today) and said if there was anything else that needed to be fixed to have him do it. We've been wanting to replace the light fixture in the kitchen so H said to have him come back and do it after I had the chance to pick one out. Then H said, "We should definitely do it if we're going to sell the house."... ...S5 heard H and said, "No, I don't want to sell the house." H looked at me, looked away, then said, "Ok, we won't. We'll rent it out then."... ...A few moments later, H asked me, "So you definitely don't want to move to AZ, huh?" I told him, "I never said no. Maybe we could get my parents to watch the boys sometime so we could go out there for a few days and check things out." H said, "We could just take the kids with us." I said, "Yeah, we could do that, too." H said, "Well...I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. When I get back, I need to decide if I'm going to keep working for (boss). Let's go, (bf)!"... !!!

I went back inside, sat on the couch, and the tears started pouring out. Then I heard H coming back in saying, "I can't find my glasses. Have you seen them?" I quickly got up to go to the bedroom so he wouldn't see me crying, but he came in there. H said, "Have you seen -- What's wrong?" I shook my head and didn't say anything. H asked again what was wrong so I told him that I didn't know; I just didn't know what to think anymore. H said, "I'm sorry if what I said upset you.....Can you help me find my glasses please?"

I got myself together as best as I could (I wasn't sobbing; the tears were just flowing) and went around the house helping H look for them. I looked inside while H went looking outside. We spent a good 20 minutes looking around for them and still couldn't find them.

Soon after, H came inside and said, "I found them! Guess where they were....My dumb a** left them on the edge of the truckbed. I'm such an idiot!" ( DARE I AGREE?! No, I'm only kidding!! LOL!! )

Then H sat in the chair I was standing next to and pulled me onto his lap. We gave each other a hug then:

H: "I don't know, JV......I just see it like...We had problems before this thing happened, and we've been able to get through them. I'm not trying to say that it's just another problem......I have so much guilt still. I think about this everyday."
Me: "I know this is hard for you. It's not something that you can just get passed and forget about. I haven't forgotten myself, but I don't think about what happened (the A) everyday."
H: "Well I do."
Me: "I'm sorry. You're having a rough time, and I understand that."

H was quiet for awhile then said he had to get going. H said he was sorry he had to go again and for saying anything to upset me (about selling the house, etc); he said he didn't mean anything by it. He gave me another little kiss then we said goodbye again and he left.

Ok, it's taken me like 2 hours to get this posted! Kids -- you gotta love them!

H called about an hour ago to see how things went with the repairman. He was here to put up the new bedroom door and fix the toilet tank (it's been leaking). I told H everything went well. H wasn't too happy when he asked how much it cost to replace the door. He said, "That's what I get for busting it down...Oh well. Nothing I can do about it." Then H asked me what I thought we could sell the house for. I said I didn't know. There haven't been too many for sale around here lately, and I couldn't remember what the last one sold for. H said, "Call Susan (our realtor) tomorrow and ask her. I gotta go so I'll talk to you later." Then we said bye.

Alright. Ok, I've been thinking again . Uh oh!

I know I haven't been cheery around H much since he got back and before he left. I BELIEVE that my sulkiness (from the past several days and even pre-bomb days) stems from my feelings for quality time with H; IOW, my resentment/anger/frustration I go through when H is home but not spending nearly enough time just being with me or doing things with me. I have tried but failed to not show it in my face. I've been very quiet when H is around (keeping my mouth shut, hoping, and waiting for H to say "let's go do such-and-such).

I recently realized something. I find it uneasy to look at H sometimes. I think it has to do with the anger and resentment I feel. I've felt like H put me on "ignore" for so long; am I doing it now?

So...with the lack of my PMA and the possibility of H feeling "ignored", ....with H noticing my moodiness....could H think (when he sees me quiet and distant) that it's because of his A? Could H be thinking or feeling that I think about it everyday so this might be why he does? (Am I overanalyzing again? Sorry!)

I really think I AM over the fact that there was an OW. I do sometimes have insecurities, and I don't expect them to just disappear. I think what keeps me down is the resentment that's been built up and the emotional "drainage" the back and forth issue has caused in my sitch.

Hmmm...any thoughts please? Am I just crazy thinking too much ? And by all means, be as blunt as you want with me! I don't mind!

Thanks for listening to my madness!

JV
Posted By: sage Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/29/05 12:16 PM
Quote:

So...with the lack of my PMA and the possibility of H feeling "ignored", ....with H noticing my moodiness....could H think (when he sees me quiet and distant) that it's because of his A? Could H be thinking or feeling that I think about it everyday so this might be why he does? (Am I overanalyzing again? Sorry!)




Yes, h could absolutely think that.

One of the things that my h tells me is that he's ok when I'm upset as long as he knows if it's because of something he's done...iow, if it's blurry what's bothering me, well, that really stresses him out.

But, let me add a caveat to that...that doesn't give me carte blanche to express anger, resentment, whatever to him at full tilt...because THAT doesn't help either. What really, really works is for me to work on my anger and resentment solo...to figure out what's there because I've overlaid some "script" or "expectation" or "ASSumption" on what h has or hasn't done (a la what I posted yesterday) which is anger I need to deal with versus what's really about some bit of behavior of his.

The other thing is that I've found that things rarely need to be expressed angrily or with resentment...ASK for what you want as opposed to demanding it, etc.

FWIW, I've found that my anger has reduced about 90% by shedding the scripts and interpretation...it's truly amazing how it just mellows everyone out.

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/29/05 03:06 PM
Hi there.

Quote:

One of the things that my h tells me is that he's ok when I'm upset as long as he knows if it's because of something he's done...iow, if it's blurry what's bothering me, well, that really stresses him out.



This sounds like it could be the case in my sitch as well. In fact, I can recall MANY times when H has said to me, "Will you just PLEASE talk to me? Tell me what is wrong. What did I do?" I always said "nothing" even though it WAS something that H did to bother me.

I think I tend to keep it to myself out of fear of causing a disagreement/argument, and that's because of my inability to control my emotions. For instance, I could be talking to H about what's bothering me, and he interrupts everytime before I'm able to finish. I get irritated, ask H to let me finish, he will say sorry/ok, I start again, but he cuts me off again, and I blow up. I tell H "forget it" because since he won't just let me finish then I don't want to talk anymore. Then H will usually say, "Fine, I WILL forget it."

Hmmm....Thinking about this takes me to goal #3 -- controlling my emotions and THINKING BEFORE I SPEAK. Maybe when I do talk to H about what I feel he's done to upset me, H might perceive it as me complaining/nagging/attacking him. I don't feel like I'm doing that. In fact, I WILL start out mellow, but when he interrupts, it's like H is pushing one of my buttons, then it all goes downhill from there.

Hmmm...I need to come up with a solution to that recurring problem.

Quote:

The other thing is that I've found that things rarely need to be expressed angrily or with resentment...ASK for what you want as opposed to demanding it, etc.



I agree. I need to go back to just pleasantly ASKING for H to take me out, etc. I say "go back" because I did used to ask, but then H would be too busy with whatever so he couldn't. Or when he said "ok, we will", something would come up with him and we didn't get to go out. I felt rejected and let down all the time. So I've withdrawn from asking and started waiting. Waiting for H to ask me when and if he had the time.

Thanks again, Sage. This has been very helpful to me.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/30/05 06:15 AM
Hi there.

It's Friday night, the kids are at my parents' house for the whole weekend, and I have nothing to do right now . Oh well! Tomorrow I plan on cleaning the house and re-organizing all the closets. How's that for GAL ?! I'm going to try to see about getting together with some of my friends later on.

Anyhow, I've composed a letter to H. I haven't decided if I'm going to give it to him or not. I know many would say not to, but I must tell you that this is something I've done many times in the past, even post-bomb before reading DR, and H has always been ok with it. I felt it was a great way to express myself to H, and it gave him time to think before talking to me about it -- all this without any tension.

I'm going to post my letter now, and please feel free to share any thoughts you may have. Anyone.

I would also like to mention that there are some very sensitive issues in it that I have not talked about here, and I apologize if anyone is disturbed by any of this.

XXXXX,

There are things that have been on my mind for a long time and I want to say them to you, but I don't know exactly how without crying all the time. It's not your fault that I cry. I am just an emotionally sensitive person; you know that. So like many times before, this is an easier way for me to do it.

I've been thinking about all the guilt you still have, and I understand that no matter how many times I tell you that I have forgiven you or when I try to comfort you, it still may not help make things any easier for you.

When I look back at our interactions with each other, I can see how I probably look miserable to you. I'm not going to lie to you, XXXXX. I am miserable, but it is not because of the affair. I am passed the hurt of that, and I never really cared about what the other person looked like or who they were. The other person could have been Miss Beauty Queen or Miss Piggy. I don't care. The affair was only a symptom of the problems in our relationship.

I can't possibly know what's going on in your mind. We're not mind readers, so with that said, I can tell you what's been bothering me for so long, for a couple of years. It's been the severe lack of time you and I have spent with each other. I know I've told you this before, but maybe I came across to you as complaining, nagging, or attacking when, in fact, I didn't think I was doing that at all. I was only trying to ask for more of your time. Spending quality time with you, XXXXX, and doing things together (other than poker) like in our earlier years makes me feel loved by you. It has never been about any gift you ever bought me. It has never been about a bigger house, new or newer cars, diamond earrings, or anything else. I truly and deeply appreciate those things, and I am forever grateful for everything you have done for the boys and me.

So, yeah, it's nice to have all this stuff, but that's not what's important to me. What is important to me is spending time together. Like I said, that's what makes me feel loved. I can't tell you how it makes me feel when you are gone working for weeks at a time, come home, take the boys out to have fun, then you're off to go play poker for the night. Many times there are 3 or 4 nights in a row of this, then before I know it, it's time for you to go back to work......Where am I in any of that?

Actually, I can tell you how it makes me feel. When you and I don't spend any time with each other, it makes me feel rejected, let down, and so alone. And when you sound upset or irritated with me on the phone, it only adds to it. I dread answering the phone sometimes. I don't want to be asked, "WHAT are you doing?" I'd prefer, "HOW are you doing?" or "HOW's it going?" The latter sounds much more pleasant. It would at least sound to me like you cared. If I do or say something that displeases you, I would like for you to talk to me about it so I can improve what needs to be.

I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining about your job either, but I have to be honest. Yes, it sucks that you have to leave so much for so long and you are constantly stressed out about working for XXXX, but I respect the fact that you are doing what it takes to support us. I always have. And to be even more honest, I think there is a lot more out there for you to look into as far as a new job. The one you have now pays the bills, but I believe it's one of the biggest issues in our family. You've had it for about 3 years now, and although things have always been a bit rough, our relationship has suffered even more because of the demand this job has on you. I know you aren't happy working for XXXX, so why settle for it? I know you could find something that you'd be a lot happier with.

Another issue that's been bothering me is intimacy. Not necessarily just sex. It's more than that. It's about feeling connected to you, both emotionally and physically. I remember when we used to walk side-by-side holding hands or we'd have our arm around each other. That doesn't happen anymore. You walk ahead of me now, and I feel left behind. I also remember how you used to ask me to sit or lay down with you if we were watching something on TV, and that, too, has stopped. I know it's because we have grown apart over the past couple of years, or at least that's what I think. Now, sex. XXXXX, I love the sex we had together, and I thought you did, too, but I feel like you don't anymore. You used to say you wanted it much more, and now I'm the one saying it. When you initiate it, it makes me feel sexy, desired, feminine, wanted, and loved. I don't initiate it because I get turned down or made to feel like you don't really want to, but you're just willing to. I love the intensity involved, most of the time, but sometimes I would like passion and tenderness. Sometimes I don't want to be (bleep); sometimes I want to be made love to.

Lastly, this has bothered me the most. It's the deepest and touchiest concern that I have. XXXXX, you have an eating disorder. Bulemia is a sickness, and I know you know that. XXXXX, you are hurting yourself more than you think. I have seen stuff on this disorder, and it scares me when I think of you doing it to yourself. If you absolutely refuse to get any kind of professional help, and if you won't stop for me or for yourself, then please stop for the boys' sake. They need you around, Daddy. I'm sorry. This really hurts and scares me to death. I love you, and I care so much about you. Please stop!

I hope you're not taking any of this as me complaining or telling you all the wrong things you have done. I am in no way trying to come down on you. I'm just letting you know how I've felt for some time now. I guess like you in a way, I've been keeping my mouth shut to avoid conflict and hurt, but I have learned from you, and myself as well, that silence breeds frustration, resentment, and anger. That's no way to live, and that's definitely not how I want to live. I don't think you do either.

XXXXX, if you're only here for the best interest of the kids, or because it's just easier and convenient this way for you, then we should split up. I really want to be with you, but I also need to feel more than just cared for. I can't make you change; you have to want to work on yourself for yourself. I know I'm not perfect either. There are things in me that I want and have to change for me and for the boys. They need to have parents who are happy with themselves so they can grow up feeling the same.

Statistically, it's best for the boys if we stay together; we both know this. They are more likely to succeed in life if we do......but is it realistic or healthy to stay together and just keep quiet for the rest of our lives? I get the sense that this is what you're doing. You have said many times that you've wanted out yet you still remain. Am I completely wrong? Or am I right to a certain extent?

You're right, XXXXX. We have had many problems throughout our relationship, and we've always managed to get through them somehow. I think if we could find a way to forgive each other for our mistakes in our life together and work through the fog, well, I just think there is some amount of hope. There doesn't need to be loads of it, and bad days are bound to happen. A perfect marriage does not exist, but if we could find a way to get through this, and learn to be more loving to each other, then there's the possibility of having a relationship that we could both be proud of; one that the both of us could be happy with. Is that something you'd like to have? Is it something you'd like to try for?

XXXXX, if you just don't think that you could feel the same way you used to about me long ago, and if you can't do any little bit of the things I'm asking for, then you have to let me go. You can't be with me because you feel selfish. You can only be with me because you want to be. I just want to feel loved and be loved again. If I deserve anything, I deserve that. And I hope I'm not sending any mixed messages. Like I previously wrote in this letter, I want to be together, but I want us to be happy together, too.

I love you,

XXXXXXX

Ok, it's getting late and my fingers are cramping up on me.

Like I said, I haven't decided what I'm going to do about this letter. These are major concerns and thoughts I've been wanting to express to H without getting interrupted or emotionally disturbed. Every time I ever gave him a letter, H always had deep consideration for the feelings I expressed.

Please let me know what you think. All thoughts are welcome.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: SherryL Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 04/30/05 10:19 PM
I give my H letters, too (even though we are not supposed to). I haven't in awhile. My H doesn't mind. I think he preferred them because it meant we didn't have a long drawn out discussion but I could just get to the heart of what the problem was.

JV, my question is are you ready for the answer you might get? Are you ready if he says he will let you go? If you are truly ready for that, then I say give him the letter. I know many people here will not agree and say it isn't good DBing. That is just my two cents worth.

Sherry
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/01/05 02:34 AM
Thank you, Sherry.

The letters work out the same way for H and me in our sitch. I honestly DO believe I am ready for such a decision. Yes, it'll hurt and be disappointing IF that's the way things were to go, but I just want some comfort in my life; I want to heal. There are things that H said to me in our blowout convo before he came home last time that really did some damage inside of me. I know people say stupid things out of anger all the time. H did admit he went way overboard and apologized, but even still, I feel like I can't get over it, and I don't know if I can feel the same way about him again. It's possible that it could take some time to mend just like getting over his A did.

I do love H, and care deeply for him still. I wouldn't be here on this site if I didn't. I'm just tired of all the hurt, the resentment, and the loneliness. I want to get rid of it, and I guess I see H as being the cause of it.

I know I'm ultimately responsible for my own happiness. I can't depend on H making me happy anymore. All I can do is hope, but not expect, that H will help with it a little.

The phone just rang. It was H; he left this message:

H: "Hey, it's me. I just called to say hi. I'm done working for the night so I'm here at the nearby casino to play some cards. My phone doesn't work too good in here....I was hoping you'd pick up....Well, I just wanted to tell you guys, everybody ILY...and, JV, ILY, too......I hope that when I come home......I want to talk to you, JV. If I don't talk to you tonight, I want to talk to you tomorrow......I just wanted to tell you ILY....and I really want to talk to you.....I feel.....like a complete a**hole.....and I want to talk to you.....and ILY."

Well, I'm thinking I should wait til tomorrow to talk to H. If he's playing poker right now, it may not be the best time for H to say what he wants.

I'm heading over to my friend's now for a few hours or so. I haven't done anything with them in weeks! Should be fun!

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/01/05 12:20 PM
Well, it's after 6am here. I was sleeping up until the phone rang about 2 hours ago. It was H. He was on his way to the hotel from the casino.

We had a lengthy R talk. Actually, H did all the talking; I listened and only spoke a few times.

H had a lot to say. First, he said he was sorry for doing this at 4am, but he just couldn't sleep and was thinking about this all day. H also said, "I'm so sorry for everything I've put you through, JV. I've done and said so much horrible, horrible s**t to you. I want to mend what needs to be, and I really hope that I'm not too late."

H said he's been feeling like he has been taking me for granted. He knows that I love him, and because I haven't given up on him, he realizes even more just how much he loves me. H said, "You have always been right there for me. You've always been there to hold me, comfort me, and kiss away my tears.......I am so sorry that I've been taking you for granted. You mean everything to me, and you are everything to me. I do not want to lose you, JV......You are so amazing. You are what every man wants. You are beautiful both inside and outside. You are such a loving wife and mother. You're sweet, kindhearted, understanding, and so very forgiving......I've screwed things up so badly over the years, and especially, of course, over the last several months. Now I want to spend the rest of my life making it up to you. I want to give you everything you deserve, JV. ILY so much.......and I am so sorry I said I never wanted kids. In the beginning, I didn't want S9, but you have to know that I do love the boys, JV......Life is too short.....I want to spend the rest of our lives together. ILY and only you, and I want to show you just how much ILY everyday. I've been neglecting you for too long......I want to get rid of my guilt, and I can only do that by doing what's right.....I messed up what we had. We had a really, really good life, JV, and I f***ed it up. I got so damn close to ruining my family and my life with you, and I can't forgive myself for that.....I am so sorry, and I'm so sorry for going back and forth with not knowing what I wanted. I do know what I want; I want to be with you.....ILY, and I wish I was lying next to you right now.....I want us to be ok again. Actually, I want us to be better than ok. I want us to be great together. I can't say how much ILY enough....Please tell me I'm not too late, JV. I've been feeling dangerously close to that happening."

I told H that I've felt like he was taking me for granted, and I was glad that he seemed to realize it. I told him he was not alone in the downfall of our R; we were both to blame.

By this point in the convo, H had reached his room and didn't want to wake (bf), so H said he would talk to me more later. H said he can't wait to get home and "ILY". I told him "ILY, too," then we said bye.

So...it seems like we may be on the right track again. I know to expect a glitch here and there, but hopefully it will be a smoother ride from now on, and I know at this point, it all depends on me.

I can hope. I just can't expect.

BTW, I don't think I'll be giving the letter to H anytime soon if at all.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: SherryL Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/02/05 12:24 AM
Oh JV, I am so happy for you.

Those are words we all long to hear.

Remember you still need to DB and this will take time.
But it sounds good, like your H has finally made his decision. Your hard work paid off.

I will keep checking in;
Good luck!!!

Sherry
Posted By: BeingMe Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/02/05 01:49 AM
I've just caught up with your sitch, and I am so glad for you, JV. Wow! We both seem to be getting this reaction from our H's at the same time. This is more or less what my H said to me last week. There must be something in the air.

I also realise that we have to continue DB'ing, and to be patient with our H's. I found myself biting my tongue several times this weekend, but still managed to bring up subject of OW. I have now decided I have to bite my tongue harder, and not worry about her anymore.

Intimacy was also a thing lacking in our R, so I understand where you're coming from, and have said similar thing to my H. I found, though, that they need to come around themselves, and not be reminded of their lack of intimacy. I still wait with bated breath on this one, so time will tell.

Good luck. Hope things continue to improve in your sitch, as I hope the same in mine, and everyone else here on the bb.
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/02/05 02:57 AM
Hi there.

Thanks, Sherry. It certainly seems as if H has finally made his choice, but only time will tell.

I'm sorry if I sound negative. I've just been thinking about that convo, and although H's words seemed to come from the heart, they are words H has used in previous talks. The only difference is H seemed to REALLY mean it this time.

After that convo, I didn't get the sense of relief I had in prior convos. I didn't feel that optimistic. Maybe because I'm very wary about my sitch now. I feel like the door is slightly ajar at the moment. Not for me, but for H. I've been feeling this way for awhile, and it almost scares me a little.

I'm afraid that after H gets back, and after everything he said to me, that if H asks to go play cards, go to our friend's house, or whatever else......well, I'm almost certain that the door will be closer to being completely shut.

What I'm even more afraid of is that I feel really ok with that. I started this journey scared to death of the thought of H leaving, and now I feel I've reached a point where if he left, well, I might be better off.

Or maybe it's because I just feel really lost. I could go either way right now, but I feel like I can't choose a way. Part of me wants to be with H, but part of me doesn't anymore.

I feel like this has taken more than it's toll on me. I feel like everything that I've known to be secure in my life with H is anything but, and I don't know if it could ever be the same if not better.

I don't even know if I'm making any kind of sense right now.

I want to be with H but then I don't. Maybe I feel like I want to be with him because I still love him, and maybe I feel like I don't because I don't want to hurt anymore and I don't want to risk being hurt by him again.

OR....maybe I'm just tired . Oh yeah -- and crazy, too.

As I said in my first post on this thread, this may be my last chance.....This may also be H's last chance.....I've got to get myself together and think about what I REALLY want.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/02/05 03:08 AM
Thanks, BeingMe.

Maybe the more I hear that this could be a good thing, the more I might begin to believe it.

I've come to this point SOOOO many times in my sitch. I'm so afraid to have any kind of hope anymore.

Yes, there definitely must have been something in the air! I thought it was kind of eerie how my H said he HAD been taking me for granted when I WAS thinking that myself yesterday! Pretty strange, huh? But I'll take it!

Thanks for the insight on the intimacy issue. I'll have to keep that in mind.

I hope things are finally turning around for the better, and I hope everything goes well for you, too!

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/02/05 05:24 PM
Hello. Quick update:

H called last night and we spoke briefly.

He told me that he had cut out early from working the home show with (bf) since it was slow and went to play more cards. H ended up losing some $$, but it was no big deal. Wait -- let me say that again. It was no big deal to ME, but it was to H. He was irritated and a bit upset about it. I'm thinking to myself, "It was only $(x)! You've done worse. It's nothing, it's done, get over it now."

Well, although H sounded upset at me, I told myself, "He is NOT mad at me. He is upset with HIMSELF, his guilt is probably only adding to it, and he WILL get over it in a few days.....He is NOT mad at ME."

I believe that's a BIG plus for me right there!

JV
Posted By: SherryL Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/02/05 06:17 PM
Good job JV on not reflecting H's anger onto you. That is a step in the right direction.

I completely understand about being wary and not sure what you feel anymore. When my H said he would end it with ow (albeit slowly), I then started doubting everything and wondering if this is what I really wanted after all, if I wouldn't be better off on my own.
I know this isn't offering advice, I just wanted to let you know that I understand. Take sometime while H is gone to think about YOU and what you want. Sort thru those feelings.
I think you will find, if H is sincere this time and means what he said then you will want your M.
I have to keep telling myself we will have a stronger M when H is truly back in and working on it, too.

I don't know if this helps or not.
Thinking and praying for you.
Sherry
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/02/05 08:41 PM
Thank you, Sherry.

It helps so much when someone else can understand. I do plan on using this time before H gets back to really think things through.

Quote:

I have to keep telling myself we will have a stronger M when H is truly back in and working on it, too.



I feel the same way. I know that I've got the lion's share of the work to do right now. I just hope to see some kind of effort coming from H when he's back home.

Again, I'm not a patient one. I am trying though.

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers, too. I think about everyone here and pray for all as well.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Quick question! - 05/02/05 09:03 PM
Today is the anniversary of when H and I "officially" became boyfriend and girlfriend....(sigh)....Those were the days!

H and I have always said "Happy Anniversary" to each other on this day.

H just called about 30 minutes ago. He needs me to Fed-Ex some things to him. He sounded a little down.

H has ALWAYS remembered today's significance; even better than I have !

My question: Should I say "Happy Anniversary" when we talk later today? I wonder if that would be too awkward right now especially for H.

Any thoughts please? Thanks.

JV

BTW, our wedding anniversary is coming up on the 17th. That should be interesting.
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/03/05 04:27 AM
Hello.

Not much to report about tonight. The boys called H around 8pm to say good night, but I didn't get to speak with him . Yes, a little disappointing, but I think I'll live.

My mind and my feelings have really been all over the place, but I've been thinking about things tonight, and I DO want to keep trying to work on my M (not that I'll change my mind, but I still have several days before H gets back). If anything, I feel like I have to keep trying for my boys' sake. They deserve to live in a happily loving family with Mom and Dad in it together, and if it doesn't work, well....I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Feeling a little uneasy right now. I called H (because he asked me to when I talked to him earlier today) a short while ago to let him know that his new driver's license (he lost the old one) came today and I would Fed-Ex it to him tomorrow, but his phone was off. I can be doing well, but when little things like this happen, I start to feel my insecurity creeping up on me. I'm sure there's a valid reason why H has his phone off. I just have a hard time not thinking about all the possibilities -- the ones that could hurt me. Like for instance, is he at a bar with (bf) who LOVES going out for drinks and picking up on women?.... ....This scenario happened A WHOLE LOT when H was in AZ pre-bomb. That's where he is now, and (bf) is there with him.......Ok, I'm more than a little uneasy. I'm VERY uneasy about H having his phone off. He usually only has it off when he doesn't want to be "bothered" by anyone.

I'm going to try to relax now. Thank you for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/03/05 06:56 PM
Hi. Just updating:

H called about 1am this morning. He said his phone was on when I said I called him, but he was in the casino, again, and there wasn't a signal. I said "ok". H must have sensed I was upset because he asked what was the matter. I told him, "Whenever I call you, and if you don't answer or your phone's off, bad feelings begin to set in, and I don't like that. Those feelings are even worse when you don't call back until hours later." H said that he was sorry, his phone really was on, but he just had no signal. We talked a little more, he said "IMY" and "ILY" then we hung up.

I talked to H again a few minutes ago. I wanted to know if I could just send his DL through the mail; it would be easier for me this way instead of having to wait in line at the post office or at Kinko's, but instead of hearing from H, "No, JV, I would prefer it to be done through Fed-Ex please," I got, "This is bulls**t! What's the big deal? If it's too much for you to do then give it to my mom so she can do it for me." Then H asked me what was the deal with my attitude, and I said (not DBing), "Maybe it has something to do with your attitude. I was only asking a simple question. You could have said no a lot nicer than how you just did." H said snidely, "(sigh)...Ok. Sorry." I said I was getting off the phone now then we said bye.

I only figured sending his DL through the mail would be easiest. He's going to be in AZ for at least another week; it would get to him in plenty of time....It would've been easiest for me that way because the baby isn't feeling too good; looks like allergies maybe. I'm trying to re-organinze S9 and S5's room (it is a disaster!), A/C maintenance is being done in 45 minutes, I have to go get S9 in 2 hours, come home and fix an early dinner for me and the kids, take S9 to Tae Kwon Do shortly after that, have S9's yearly review with his instructor, etc, etc, etc.....

Ok, I'm wasting time venting. I'd better go Fed-EX this now, with a very fussy baby in tow, before A/C guy gets here.

JV
Posted By: sage Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/03/05 07:39 PM
Quote:

I talked to H again a few minutes ago. I wanted to know if I could just send his DL through the mail; it would be easier for me this way instead of having to wait in line at the post office or at Kinko's, but instead of hearing from H, "No, JV, I would prefer it to be done through Fed-Ex please," I got, "This is bulls**t! What's the big deal? If it's too much for you to do then give it to my mom so she can do it for me." Then H asked me what was the deal with my attitude, and I said (not DBing), "Maybe it has something to do with your attitude. I was only asking a simple question. You could have said no a lot nicer than how you just did." H said snidely, "(sigh)...Ok. Sorry." I said I was getting off the phone now then we said bye.




One of the things I heard from h during the bomb dropping phase was "God forbid you'd actually do anything for ME!". At first I was astonished because I considered myself a giving person but when I really thought about it, well, it occurred to me that I was quite giving to others in terms of doing things for them but not so much to h. In fact, I think I had really embraced my mom's mantra that doing errands and nice things for my h made me some sort of doormat.

Anyway, perhaps your h is feeling a bit of that? I can tell from the rest of your post how very busy you are with errands and kids and all so it's clearly not a question of effort .

It could also be that he had made a suggestion as to the solution (Fedx) and he felt challenged by your suggestion to do something different?

Also, maybe he was just reeling a bit from the conversation about the cell phone. I've noticed that sometimes h's anger or concern about one thing comes out in an entirely different way...

None of these are likely very helpful thoughts other than to suggest that people get irked for all kinds of reasons...if you can let it roll off of you without responding in anger or resentment, you may both feel better.

(Oh, I just thought of another one...maybe he was irked because you HAD agreed to fedx but then changed your mind?)

Hang in there with all you've got going on!

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/03/05 10:42 PM
Alright I have time for another quick update:

I felt bad about ending the phone convo on a sour note, so I called H while I was going to pick up S9; after I had plenty of time to "chill out".

When H answered ( ), I told him I was sorry for getting upset. I've been stressed out with everything going on today. H said, "Oh. I thought it was my fault." I said, "No, it was me. Well, maybe both of us . Again, I'm sorry." H said, "Ok. Me, too." We chatted a bit before hanging up on a MUCH better note.

Quote:

...I considered myself a giving person but when I really thought about it, well, it occurred to me that I was quite giving to others in terms of doing things for them but not so much to h. In fact, I think...that doing errands and nice things for my h made me some sort of doormat.



I have thought the same about myself, too. When I take a step back to look at myself, I AM nicer about doing for others; more than for H. It never used to be that way, so WHEN did it change? I would have to say when I felt H stopped doing for me; when H stopped speaking my LL -- Quality Time. Sure, H has asked me to do many things for him as any loving wife would do for her H, and I've always done them, but I think when my love tank wasn't being filled anymore, my attitude toward H asking for "favors" changed dramatically. Like in one of my past posts, I can HEAR my resentment in my responses to H asking for a favor -- Me: " (sighing)...Yes, I can do that," and thinking at the same time, "Sure, I'll do what you're asking for like I always do, but when are YOU going to do for ME?!!!"

Since my needs weren't being met, I felt more and more like a doormat, and with my in-laws saying things like, "JV, you do so much for him. When is he going to see that? When is he going to start treating you better?", it only made my resentment grow even more.

Quote:

Anyway, perhaps your h is feeling a bit of that?



He very well could be.

Quote:

...people get irked for all kinds of reasons...if you can let it roll off of you without responding in anger or resentment, you may both feel better.



You're absolutely right. Sometimes I am able to achieve this, other times I'm not so lucky . Another thing to work on .

Quote:

(Oh, I just thought of another one...maybe he was irked because you HAD agreed to fedx but then changed your mind?)



I would have to say BULLSEYE!!! When I called H to apologize, he stated this almost word for word.

So...next time I agree to something, I have to stick to it. That is, if I want to avoid conflict. ....hmmm....LOL!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Sage!

JV
Posted By: sage Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/03/05 10:47 PM
Quote:

Quote:

(Oh, I just thought of another one...maybe he was irked because you HAD agreed to fedx but then changed your mind?)



I would have to say BULLSEYE!!! When I called H to apologize, he stated this almost word for word.

So...next time I agree to something, I have to stick to it. That is, if I want to avoid conflict. ....hmmm....LOL!




OK, put this one in your data bank...h really appreciates it if when I agree to something I stick to it!

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/04/05 03:36 AM
Got it, Sage! Thanks again!

H called about an hour and a half ago. When I answered and said "hello", H said, "Hey, Mommy!" in kind of a sexy way . So I said, "Hey, Daddy!" in the same way!

WOW! H actually asked me how MY day went! AAAAANNNDDD H listened without interrupting ! I could hardly believe it!....Wait a minute....was that MY H???!!!!....Whoever it was, I hope he calls again!

JV
Posted By: slowly Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/06/05 05:28 AM

Hi JV
Quote:

H called about an hour and a half ago. When I answered and said "hello", H said, "Hey, Mommy!" in kind of a sexy way . So I said, "Hey, Daddy!" in the same way!


Keeping things light really works for us too. I get away with a lot more when I can put my 'complaint' across in a jokey way. Good stuff happening here, JV.

Slowly

Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/06/05 07:59 PM
Thanks for the visit, Slowly.

Yes, good things are happening!

Not much to report about from the last few days. H has called everyday and has been nice to talk to. He asked me if I was sleeping alright (early after the bomb dropped, I was getting NO sleep -- this has stopped for the past couple of months). I told H I was sleeping fine, thanks for asking. H, on the other hand, isn't sleeping well. (bf) snores VERY loudly and all through the night he said. Poor H! He says he misses us and can't wait to get home. That should be some time on Tuesday.

I've just been keeping myself busy with trying to reorganize things in the house; a TOUGH task with a very clingy little one ! MIL is taking the baby to her house later this afternoon so I can get my stuff done. I want the house to be clean, managed, and very warm for H's arrival!

I can feel my PMA coming through !

I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend! Enjoy !

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/07/05 06:57 PM
Well.....I didn't sleep too good last night. I was waiting to hear from H, but he never called. I tried calling him, but no answer, so I left a voicemail to see how his day had gone and asked for him to give me a call......It's about 1pm now and still no word from H.

I don't want to call him again; I don't want to "pursue".

My mind has just been going crazy. Hmmm...it was Friday night....did he go out with (bf) to another bar? Was he out playing more poker? Was he asleep already (HA! Very unlikely!)? What was he doing that he couldn't call his wife back?......

We'll see if he calls later tonight. I'll do my best to keep my cool. It's so hard though especially after I told him how it makes me feel when he doesn't call back. I just don't get it .

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/08/05 03:03 AM
Ok. I just have some thoughts I need to get out.

Still haven't heard from H. The boys will be calling him soon to have their nightly chat so I hope H answers for them.

The boys and I went out with my parents, two of my sisters (I have three), and their families for an early Mother's Day dinner. We all had a really nice time. I don't get to see my sisters that often so I'm always very happy when I do. The boys got to play with their cousins which is always the best part for them.

After we went out for dinner, we all went back to my parents' house to check out the progress on their remodeling. Then the kids went off to play, the baby was sleeping, and the guys were doing their thing in one room while us ladies were doing ours in another.

I kind of drifted off into "self-pity land" as I heard my mother and sisters talking about all the great things going on in their lives. All the family vacations and romantic getaways ( ) that were going to take place soon. All the little special surprises their Hs have done for them......I AM happy for them......I just can't help feeling the way I do and thinking, "Why can't that be H and me? Why did things have to go so wrong?"

My family knows NOTHING about our sitch. It took everything I had to not burst into tears in front of them; I waited until I got home.

----------------------

H just called. I had been crying a bit before I answered. H asked what was wrong; he said I sounded funny. I told H nothing, it was just my allergies bothering me . H asked what we did today so I told him about our dinner with my family. H asked, "So.....did you talk to your sisters?" From the way he asked, I knew what he meant because H knows that I talk to them frequently via email; my sisters and I share everything, but I have kept all of this from them. I told H, "Yes, but not about us. We talked about other things." Before H could ask "what other things", I added, "Oh! BTW, BIL was talking about them possibly moving to AZ." H said, "Really?!......So what now? Since BIL's talking about it, it's "cool" now?" I said, "It was never UNcool......When you were talking about us moving there months ago,.....it was harder......It's hard leaving everything here behind."

Then H said, "I didn't want to leave everything behind either......I just feel like we could start all over again out here......Maybe even live easier, too...I don't know." I said, "Well, like I said, let's go out there together sometime so I can check it out."

We talked a little more then H asked to speak with the boys. S9 gave the phone back to me when they were done. H said, "Alright. I'm gonna go do my laundry now, so I'll talk to you later. Take care, pretty girl." I said, "You, too, stud." H said with a tiny chuckle "ILY", and I told him "ILY", too.

All in all, it was a nice convo. I wanted to ask why he didn't answer or call back last night but decided to just let it be. The convo was going good, and I didn't want to foul anything up.

Ok, I've got to get the kids to bed now.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/09/05 08:40 PM
Hi there. I hope everyone enjoyed their Mother's Day weekend.

The boys and I hung around my parents' for most of yesterday. When we returned home, I saw that there were 2 messages on the machine and a missed call on my cell (I had left it on the charger). All were from H.

I called him back, and he wished me a Happy Mother's Day. H said, "I'm sorry I'm not there to take you out to dinner." I said, "That's alright. It's no big deal." H said, "It is to me....I'm missing too much."

I'm thinking to myself, "Yes, you sure are....You've missed a whole lot over the past couple of years," but I asked H what he was up to. He told me that he had a couple of service calls and hung around boss' house for the rest of the day. He also said he got me a card but didn't get a chance to send it, so he'll give it to me when he gets here tomorrow. I told H thank you. Then he talked with S9 and S5 before hanging up.

So....H gets home tomorrow. I'm not sure what time though. H has a show to work in Napa this weekend, but he will be home for about 3 weeks. Geez -- I can't remember the last time H was home for that long ! And darn -- I was hoping for some , but it's that time of month now . Oh well.

We just received a fax. It's from PG&E -- they have a position available . H has the experience they are looking for to fill this position, and dayshift is available ! It's in Sacramento which is only about 35 minutes away from us! Oh wow! Please say a prayer for us and keep your fingers crossed !

Thank you for listening!

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trying to find our way to happiness - 05/10/05 10:32 PM
Just updating:

H arrived home about 2 hours ago. I was in another room and didn't hear H come in. S5 shouted, "Mom, Dad's here!" I went to the living room to greet H, but he was already in the bathroom. So I went to put some laundry in the dryer, came out, and H was there. I said, "Hey!...A goatee, huh? It's looks good!" H smiled and gave me a nice hug for a minute. It probably would've been longer or something a little more , but the baby started crying so I said, "Sorry. Let me go get him."

I went to change S8mos in his room then H came in there, too. H laid on the floor and when I was done with S8mos, H pulled me down to the floor with him. We were about to hug again, but the baby started fussing again. H picked him up and we had a "family" hug . After that I asked H to watch him for a second so I could dispose of the diaper and stick a load of laundry in the washer.

While I was in the laundry room, H came in there with S8mos. When I was done, H gave me another hug and asked, "Did you miss me?" I said, "Yeah." H gave me a nice kiss then handed over the baby so he could fix something to eat before going to pick up S9 from school.

Later when H returned from getting S9, I was putting clothes away in the boys' room. H came in and said he had a service call to handle (he already loaded the truck with equipment). He said he would be back in time to take S9 to Tae Kwon Do. I told him thank you. My hands were full so H kind of hugged me and gave me a kiss on my forehead.

Ok, I'm a little worried. H has been affectionate since getting here, but he has been very quiet.

My PMA IS here and showing......so....hmmmm....

Maybe because during the times of affection or "attempted" affection, it was just a bit awkward or disturbed by reality (the baby and my hands not being free -- ME not being free)???

OR....maybe H was hoping for a warm welcoming, and unfortunately, I wasn't right there to greet him when he walked through the door.

Maybe when H has to go on his next business trip and after he returns, I need to tell him that I missed him (without H having to ask first).....I'm thinking back to pre-A days when H would return from his trips and he would ALWAYS ask if I missed him. During his A, H never asked that anymore. Today, he did....Now I'm remembering back to one of our first R talks where H told me he didn't think that I loved him. So maybe H wants to hear "IMY" from me without having to ask -- I'll try to remember this next time and see what results I get !

Well, I hope H isn't as quiet when he gets back. I'll try to initiate some convo and maybe a little closeness. Hopefully it helps .

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Seeing some light ahead - 05/11/05 05:33 PM
Journaling:

I'm feeling really good right now ! I have hope but no expectations for my sitch.

I want to focus on the positives in our sitch, and I also want to note the negatives so that I can work on those to change them. So let me start with yesterday:

+ POSITIVES +

+ H hugged me/initiated closeness when he arrived home.
+ H said he wants to take me out for dinner (with or without the kids) to make up for missing Mother's Day. I told H thanks but he didn't have to. H said he knows but he WANTS to.
+ LOTS of flirting going on between us yesterday! H clearly stating he wanted later in a flirtatious way. When I told him it was that time of month, he was bummed but I said, "There are other things we could do ." H really liked that!!!
+ I went to give H a small kiss before leaving to pick up S9, but he gave me a VERY NICE kiss instead !
+ We watched recorded programs together with H resting his head in my lap the whole time.
+ Bedtime came around, and we were very intimate . When H enjoys me like that, I feel SOOO good! Lots of "hot talk" -- stroking H's ego is always a BIG plus.
+ LOTS of holding me close all through the night!
+ H told me again that he does not want to lose me. He loves me.

- NEGATIVES -

- The only one I can think of as far as yesterday went was that I wasn't at the door to greet H when he got home, but that wasn't anyone's fault. It just happened that way .

* THINGS TO WORK ON *

* Telling H "IMY" before he feels he has to ask me.
* Initiating more closeness. I don't want H to feel that I'm always waiting on him to make the first move.
* If I can -- helping H to "feel more like a man". While in bed last night, H told me, "I don't want to lose you, JV....I want to be a man....I just want to feel like a man." I told H, "You ARE a man, H....You're MY man." Then he kissed me.

Ok. Yesterday went VERY well . There are many days ahead of us, and bad ones are bound to come up, but if we're able to have more "yesterdays" than "bad days", then we should be right on track.

Here's to taking one day at a time, feeling a bit more patient and a bit more hopeful.

Thanks for listening.

JV

BTW, I got a "good morning" kiss today!
Posted By: dodgermf Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/11/05 06:05 PM
Quote:

+ We watched recorded programs together with H resting his head in my lap the whole time.
+ Bedtime came around, and we were very intimate . When H enjoys me like that, I feel SOOO good!


DAMMIT, I miss that (of course change the H to W in my case)!! When I read that, I can see, feel and smell the Redhead like she's right here. That's not good...

I'm happy for you, it looks like you are really on track JV. Keep it going!

DMF OUT
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/12/05 01:17 AM
Hi there.

Thanks, D. Things are seemingly going right. When they go this way for longer than a couple of weeks or so with very few bumps in-between, then I'll have an even better sense of being on track. I have been following your sitch as well as other's but since I'm still fairly new to all of this, I feel that I don't have a whole lot to offer other than my support. Thanks again, D, for stopping by and your valued support !

-------------------------

Not a whole lot when on today.

H picked up S5 from school and brought one of his classmates over to play with. H took them bowling before going to pick up S9 from school. Then H took all 3 of them to play mini-golf. H was quite the COOL dad today ! Later I thanked H for doing all that (helping out with the boys -- and even an extra one no less !!).

I called H while they were out playing mini-golf to ask him to pick up a loaf of bread on their way home. He said he would then he said, "I wanted to go play in the tournament tonight, but I figured you'd give me h*ll." BEEP...BEEP...BEEP BEEP BEEP!!!-- H is beginning to push a button there, but I remained calm, positive, and upbeat . I said to H, "No, I wouldn't do that. You CAN just ask me if that's what you want to do, you know?" H said, "No that's alright. I'll stay home." I may be ASSuming, but I DO know my H, and I could tell in his voice that he really wanted to go, so I said, "H, if you'd like to go play cards tonight, go ahead! I don't mind." H said, "Are you sure?" I said, "Yes! Go win big, Daddy!" He was happy !

When they got home, H had forgotten the bread.....oh well.

The poker thing was kind of mildly getting to me, so I went into the bedroom (H was changing):

Me: "I know you're in a hurry to make the tournament, so when you have more time, I'd like to talk about a compromise as far as poker nights go."
H: "Do you not want me to go?"
Me: "No, I told you to go; it's fine. I just feel we need to discuss a compromise."
H: "Well, here's the compromise: I'm going to play in the tournament tonight then I'm coming home. Tomorrow I have to set up the show then I'm coming home. I'm working the show the whole weekend and I'll be home every night. Then I'm going to schedule the jobs and get them done as soon as I can so we can go away and do something next weekend."
Me: "Ok, that's fine,....but I meant something more as a general guideline."
H: "Ok, I agree. We'll talk about it later."
Me: "Alright. Thank you."

Before H left, I wished him luck, he thanked me for letting him go and gave me a hug and kiss .

Alright....the "compromise" I was thinking of was along these lines: I will agree to H playing cards 2 nights a week. These poker nights would be best between Monday through Thursday. Friday through Sunday should be "family" nights.

I don't think I'm really asking for too much seeing how H is away so much.

Does anyone disagree? Or have any thoughts for a better agreement?

If H were to agree to this, I hope he wouldn't perceive this as another possible controlling issue , and I hope he wouldn't agree to it if he feels he is only doing it to make me happy . Should I gently express these concerns to H?

Please -- your thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thank you !

JV
Posted By: sage Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/12/05 12:51 PM
JV -- Why not ask him what schedule he thinks makes sense? I'd only do this if you can live with the answer without modifying it, ya know?

Or you could say "I'd like at least 2 nights to be family nights, how would you feel about that?"

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/12/05 04:40 PM
Thanks for stopping by, Sage.

Quote:

JV -- Why not ask him what schedule he thinks makes sense? I'd only do this if you can live with the answer without modifying it, ya know?

Or you could say "I'd like at least 2 nights to be family nights, how would you feel about that?"



The latter sounds best to me. I'll try it. Thank you, Sage.

----------------------

Yesterday had it's ups and downs; I already know to expect that . Here's my list now:

+ POSITIVES +

+ H helped out A LOT with the kids (took them to and from school, went bowling, played mini-golf). IOW, H made the day much more relaxing for me .
+ Hugs and kisses continued.
+ More flirting! At home and over the phone -- very nice !

- NEGATIVES -

- H ASSuming the worst of me when wanting to go play poker.
- When I asked to talk about a compromise on poker nights, H seemed MILDLY defensive about it. (But he DID agree to discuss this later.)
- Although H called to "check in" while he was out playing cards a few times, he kept saying, "I'm just calling to check in so you won't be trippin'." My reply, "I'm not." His response, "Yes you are. I KNOW you're wondering what I'm doing." Again -- he is ASSuming the worst of me .
- H had been drinking while out and was a bit obnoxious and irritating over the phone.
- H didn't get home until 5:30am -- I was bothered but kept my cool.

* THINGS TO WORK ON *

* When compromising, I can suggest what I would like, but then I should ask H how he feels about it. By doing this, he will feel included in OUR decision. (Thanks again, Sage.)
* Getting H to feel more comfortable when he wants to ask for something. Right now, this mostly has to do with playing poker. In the past, there were so many times I wasn't happy about it and clearly showed it to H. This is why I think he always ASSumes the worst now when asking. I have backed down considerably, and I haven't shown him any grief about it. I think if we can reach a compromise/agreement, it may help ease the tension that poker nights create for us.

Alright -- I like listing these things now. They stick in my head much better this way !

H went to Sacramento to pick up more equipment then he's going to Napa to set up the show for this weekend, and H again said he's staying home tonight . He hugged and kissed me (twice ) before leaving.

So far so good this morning. I hope the rest of my day and everyone else's goes well!

JV
Posted By: sun387 Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 01:40 AM
JV

Glad to see you made your way over to this forum....There are going to be some hard times, but stay positive and remember all you have learned so far.

You are right about H ASSuming with the poker night...If in the past you always gave him a hard time, it will probably take him a long time to see that you are not...I know my H will take something that happened once and say it happens all the time...That is part of the cloud they lived under during most of the sitch...But keep your PMA up...Things are looking good. Dont forget to see the positives. It is easy to focus on the negative. It is a skill that has to be mastered to look for the good.

Just wanted to drop in on your sitch and see how you were doing.

Maybe on the next poker night, before H leaves give him a boost of confidence to win, it could show him that you are on his side and not bitter about his poker outing. Something like...Win big tonight H....mamma needs a new pair of shoes.

Sun

Sun
Posted By: cally Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 03:45 PM
JV........Do they really play poker there until morning?? That would upset me also if my husband stayed out that late. Because I am sure he has to be exhausted and sleep the whole next day also.

I also wanted to ad something I read in one of your posts. You mentioned being concerned about your husbands bulemia. JV I would bring this up to him. This is a serious serious illness. This is something that is harming him. Has he always been this way or did it just start? Have you ever mentioned you felt he needed help. Maybe this is something you could bring to the attention of his family so they could rally in and help also.
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 04:58 PM
Hey, Sun! Thanks for the visit.

Believe me -- I am staying as positive as I can, and ESPECIALLY around H ! I see a HUGE difference in doing this. I may have my doubts every now and then, but I'm not showing it when he's here. I'm enjoying my H .

Yeah, I've thought about H's ASSumptions, and I know it has to do with how I reacted in the past. I now realize he will let this go in his own time.

I have been cheering H on when he's going out for poker night. I always tell him "win big", "good luck", or "go get 'em, Daddy!" I know he likes it.

I also have been focusing on the positives in my sitch as well as continuing to focus on myself. Earlier in my sitch, it was very hard to ignore the negatives, but since moving here to "Piecing" (a positive transition for me), I felt I needed to pay more attention to the +'s while noting the -'s and coming up with ways to work on those -'s. Listing these has helped me a GREAT deal! I can go back to these posts if I'm feeling in doubt and then realize, "Yeah, this happened , but HEY, this also happened ." I do this to keep up my PMA IF needed.

Thanks again for stopping by, Sun, and thank you for your support and thoughts. I always appreciate them!

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 05:59 PM
Hi, cally. Thank you for taking the time to stop by my thread .

Unfortunately, yes. Poker goes on ALL night, EVERY night. The game never ends unless too many players leave the table and no one else wants to play to fill the seats. Most of the time, H will get home around midnight or so, but on a bad night where he loses some $$ (which was the case the other night), he can be out even later trying to get back to even. It sucks, but what can I do ? I can't give him any heat about it because it only makes things worse.

Things are going very well right now so I don't want to bring up the compromise issue again just yet. I think the next time H wants to go would be a better time.

Now....the bulemia issue (or is it bilemia? -- anyway). I know it's a VERY serious illness, and I HAVE brought it up to him on several occasions VERY gently and trying not to "back him into a corner".

H has not always been this way. I'm guessing it started maybe about 8 months to a year ago; clearly after H's doctor told him he had to lose weight (A LOT of weight)....or else .

When H lost about 90 lbs in 3 months (he cut way down on eating and was exercising everyday), SIL asked me one day, "You don't think he's doing anything wrong do you?" I asked her what did she mean. SIL said that back when H was still in high school, she knew that H was sometimes making himself (you know what). I told her I didn't think he was doing that. She said alright and to just keep an eye out.

I never suspected anything until about 3 or 4 months ago when H was taking a shower and I heard him getting sick. The bathroom door was locked so I asked him if he was alright. H said yes, he just had an upset stomach. At that moment I remembered what SIL said to me, but I didn't say anything to H. Over the next few months, I would hear H having those moments. Not all the time, but still, it's been enough to have me worried.

Asking H to seek help.....I don't think that's possible. I know he could really use it; I know he needs it. I've brought it up before, and H would say, "I don't do it all the time" or "I'm okay". Once, I brought up what happened to Terry Schiavo. She was bulemic, then unfortunately, she suffered cardiac arrest. This really seemed to have some sort of effect on H because he began filling himself with bananas, orange juice, and anything else loaded with potassium or anything else for a healthier heart.

H has told me that he is going to stop. Do I believe him? I don't know, but I'm keeping my eyes and ears open. I will say that I haven't "heard" anything more since he's been back home.

I don't think I want to bring his family into this. At least not now. If it should reach a certain point that I feel needs more than I can give, then I may have to, but if I do, I know he will be so angry with me. He's told me not to say anything about this to his mom or sister. H doesn't want them to worry. He said he is stopping.

I am worried, but I feel like I can't push the subject with him much more. I don't want to ignore it, but it seems I have to just for now.

Thank you again, cally, for your concern.

JV
Posted By: kml Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 06:40 PM
JV -
there is an excellent bb for family members of persons with eating disorders

http://fishybb.something-fishy.org/

Please check it out - there is a forum for spouses. Bulimia is very serious - and since obsessive-compulsive disorders can be related to eating disorders, it also makes me worry about his gambling - I know you think he has the gambling under control, but it sounds compulsive to me.

I've been through anorexia and bulimia with my own daughter, and know it is not something your H is likely to "just stop" on his own.

Medications (like Prozac) can help about 2/3 of bulimics (and people with OCD).

Ellie
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 08:20 PM
Wow! Thank you, Ellie.

I thought enough to go online for help with my M, but why didn't I think to look into seeking help for his eating disorder (ED)?

I've registered on that site but haven't posted yet. I started reading some of the other threads first. Particularly one where the H has the ED. Very similar stuff went on here.

I've also read that I have to talk more about this with H. I can't ignore it and hope that it just goes away. I have to tell H how all this makes me feel; I cannot validate him in any way (not that I have been as far as the ED is concerned). OMG, that's going to be so tough! H told me he wants to hear from me when I notice changes in his appearance, but according to that website, I CAN'T DO THAT!!! I can't tell H he looks great or really good. What do I do?

Thanks again, Ellie. I'm glad you stopped by.

JV
Posted By: kml Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 10:07 PM
JV, for now I would probably focus on improving your R. I doubt you'll get anywhere with his eating disorder until you guys are on a better footing. And you can't help him if he leaves.

You can compliment other things about his appearance (or intellect, or sexual prowess ) while trying to avoid getting sucked into talking about his weight. Or, if you think it is a particularly good moment, you can say "honey, I love you fat or thin, but I am terribly worried about your health,because I know bulimia can be a life-threatening disease."

Meanwhile - learn all you can, so you can be prepared when the time does come to tackle it head on. And do try to get him to take a multivitamin and some fish oil capsules (maybe tell him it's for his heart, without mentioning the ED?). If you could also get him to try 5-HTP (5-hydroxytyrptophan - a serotonin precursor that is available as a supplement) - you could tell him it's for weight control (it is sometimes taken for that). If it raised his serotonin levels, that might help with the bulimia in the same way Prozac does.


Ellie
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 11:05 PM
Journaling:

Ok, I've been on and off the board all day; I haven't had much to do for GAL today . My posts have taken hours to complete due to interruptions here and there .

Yesterday was another good day for H and me .

I talked with my mom a few days ago and since our anniversary is this coming Tuesday, she and my stepdad offered to watch the boys from next Friday through Monday so H and I could go away for the weekend.

H and I were talking last night and I brought this up. I said, "What do you think about going to Magic Mountain or Universal Studios next weekend?" H said, "That sounds cool! Let's go!" I suggested we stay somewhere like Holiday Inn or even Motel 6. H cut me off and said, "No, we're not doing that. We're staying somewhere nicer." I told H, "I don't want to stay someplace where we end up spending $100 or so each night." H said, "You deserve -- Sweetie, don't worry about it.".......Sweetie?! That was a first!

List for yesterday:

+ POSITIVES +

+ H said "ILY" numerous times.
+ Many hugs, kisses, and flirting still.
+ H calling me "sweetie" . I like that !
+ H called throughout the day to see how I was.
+ When H was on his way home from setting up the show, he called to see if I needed him to stop for anything before getting here. Very considerate!
+ We watched more programs together.
+ H agreeing to go to theme parks next weekend! We did this a lot when dating!

- NEGATIVES -

- My mind was beginning to wander when H didn't get home when I was EXPECTING him to. Yes, he had called and said he was coming into the next town which meant he should have been home in 15 minutes, but it took him about 30 minutes to get here. A bit of anxiety there .

* THINGS TO WORK ON *

* That bit of anxiety caused by my expectation. STOP THE EXPECTATIONS, JV!!! -- Maybe GENTLY ask H why he was a little late next time. Don't ASSume, don't condemn, don't attack!

H just called. MIL offered to stay with the kids tonight if H and I wanted to go see a movie, but he'll be home around 10pm from working. H asked me to go rent a couple of movies we could watch together tonight.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/13/05 11:13 PM
Quote:

JV, for now I would probably focus on improving your R. I doubt you'll get anywhere with his eating disorder until you guys are on a better footing. And you can't help him if he leaves.



That's exactly what I'm afraid of. The R seems really good right now, but I do feel it's too soon and I also feel I need to be much better prepared for the right time to bring this up.

Thank you so much, Ellie, for the suggestions! I will definitely use them, and again, I will learn all I need to know about the ED.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/14/05 04:45 PM
Journaling:

H is at work. I've got some shopping to do in a bit, but I wanted to talk about yesterday and this morning.

H called before getting home around 10pm. He asked, "So do you think my mom will still come over?" I said I didn't know and why. H said he wanted to go play cards and he wanted us to go together. I didn't want to so I told him that, and I also told H to go ahead if that's what he wanted to go do. He kept going back and forth with "I want to go" and "Nah, I'll just stay home". H did that about 10 times until I finally said, "What are you going to do, H? I'm fine with either one." He finally decided, "I'm staying home. I'll be a man."......What?

When H got here, we watched one of the movies I rented before going to bed.

List for yesterday:

+ POSITIVES +

+ H continued to call me during the day.
+ Affection is still going strong.
+ H rested his head in my lap again while watching the movie.
+ !

- NEGATIVES -

- I was losing a bit of patience with H's indecision about whether or not to stay home last night. Although he did stay home, I think my irritability came through to H over the phone, and this could be why he decided to stay rather than do what he might have really wanted to do. Did that make sense ?
- With the above said, I think I'm ASSuming.

* THINGS TO WORK ON *

* I feel like I'm going to have to talk about a compromise soon. I think and feel like the sooner I do this, the less stressed I will be when H wants to go play poker. If we make an agreement, then I have no excuse to get upset as long as we BOTH stick to it.
* Gotta STOP the ASSumptions!

Ok now...this morning...

After H left for work and the kids had their breakfast, I went to sort some laundry. I was sorting H's dirty clothes from his trip and came across a pair of novelty boxer shorts I had never seen before.....I have always been the one to buy H's undergarments for him; H never has the time to buy himself new clothing.....They were Christmas boxers.....I didn't buy them, and I can't see H buying them either.....Well, I threw them out. I have this feeling that OW might have bought them for H. I can't imagine anyone else getting them for him.

Maybe I'm overreacting to something that is nothing, but they were Christmas boxers, and seeing them reminded me that H was having his A during Christmas time.

I'm not going to mention this to H. I don't think he would even notice he was missing a pair of underwear .

I'm going to try my hardest to get this off my mind now.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: sonni Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/14/05 09:17 PM
JV, i've just read your post. Please, please be careful and don't mention the shorts at this time. I know that you are upset, but this could do damage and i don't think that it is worth it do you?

I have a hard time keeping OW out of my mind. When she creeps in, i become a basket case, so i try really hard not to let her in. She is just "river trash" that H has collected to throw away soon.They are NOTHING, just trash.

If that is where they did come from, then H must not remember or CARE as he is not afraid for you to see them. Please see this as a plus for you.

I am not where you are yet,(soon i hope) so i really don't know how you are feeling but i don't think that you want to loose the ground that you have gained with H over some shorts do you? You have listed so many postives from him.
You see, your company won out over something that H really likes to do. See that as a positive too. It could have been the MLC not letting him make his own decision right away. He did invite you how great!

I hope that i helped some. Try not to think of OW as much. H is with you and WANTS to be there so brush her under the rug or throw the thought of her in the trash where she belongs!
Come back here to vent instead of saying something to H if you can. You have a lot of support here.
Huggs and Prayers, Sonni
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/15/05 03:35 AM
Hi there.

Thanks for your support, Sonni. It's greatly appreciated.

Don't worry -- I have NO intentions of bringing up the boxer shorts to H at all. I think I pretty much let it go when I tossed them into the garbage ! And I VERY RARELY think about OW anymore. Thinking about OW is a complete waste of time and energy. I might still lapse once in awhile, but that is to be expected.

Thanks for pointing out the positives for me, Sonni. It helps maintain my PMA. Thank you!

----------------------

Some backsliding today :

A few days ago, H said SIL invited us to her house to watch the Trinidad boxing match tonight on PayPerView. I said, "Alright. That sounds good -- Wait. Did you say at her house?" H said yes then I said, "Oh...I can't -- " H quickly said, "Oh wait! I totally forgot. You just reminded me, and you're right. Forget that then.".....H and I are both very allergic to pet hair, and SIL has a dog and 2 cats!.....Then H said that a mutual friend will be watching it as well so maybe we'll go there instead. I told H that we probably wouldn't have a sitter for tonight, but he could go to (mf)'s by himself if he wanted to. H said, "Alright, we'll see."

I spoke with H earlier today, and he said, "(mf) called me and asked if I could pick him up from the airport if his BIL can't do it." H said that (mf) is coming back from Hawaii tonight. We talked a bit more then hung up.

It didn't ring a bell until after I was off the phone with H that he told me the other night that (mf) was going to be watching the boxing match at home tonight, and then today he told me that he might have to pick up the same (mf) at SFO tonight after 10pm.... ???

So I called H back, very calmly and gently, asking him to "clarify" the sitch for me. When H asked what I meant, I told him that he gave me conflicting information about the sitch with (mf) tonight. I reminded H what he told me the other night and what he told me earlier today.

H became irritated and said, "No, you misunderstood me." I said, "Ok. If I did, I'm sorry, but could you please tell me what's going on then?" H said, " Let me call (mf) on 3-way with you so I can handle this BS!...Do you want me to call him and prove it to you?!" I said, "...No...I'm just going to let you go now and not bother you any longer with my BS. I'm sorry, goodbye."

H called right back and said he was sorry. He didn't want to fight with me, and he didn't mean to call my concerns BS. I said I was sorry, too. I didn't mean to start anything; I was just confused with the sitch and needed to know what the deal really was. H said no it was his fault; I said it was both of us. I should have kept it to myself, and H didn't necessarily need to fly off the handle. He said, "Ok, JV." Then we said bye.

H just called. He'll be here shortly. H said he was just going to go play poker and call me later when he got there (without calling me first ), but he has decided to just come home and watch the other movie I rented with me. H sounded like he really wanted to go play cards, but he's made the choice to come home, so I hope we're okay .

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/15/05 07:18 PM
Journaling:

Yesterday was another pretty good day with the exception of that little backslide. I'm calling it "little" because neither one of us held onto any grudge after the convo. THAT IS HUGE !!!

After H called to tell me he was on his way home last night, he called again about 15 minutes later to see if I needed him to stop for anything (how nice !), and I said no thank you. H said, "Alright.....ILY, JV." I told him "ILY, too."

When H got here, we talked about his day, he asked me about mine then gave me a nice hug. We settled down to watch the movie then went to bed. Oh! And I got a very nice kiss just before the movie started !

My list:

+ POSITIVES +

+ H called back to apologize for calling my concerns BS.
+ H made HIS OWN decision about coming home last night instead of going to play cards. He stuck to what he told me the other day when he went to play in the tournament -- H told me he would be home the rest of the weekend after work.
+ We were both in positive moods even after that little backsliding convo.
+ H still being very affectionate and also considerate (hugs, kisses, asking if I need anything, the "ILY"s, etc.).
+ Closeness during the movie -- laying together, I was stroking H's back, he was stroking my arm and holding my hand from time to time. Very nice !
+ I DID NOT MENTION THE MYSTERIOUS BOXER SHORTS!!!
+ PMA, PMA , PMA!!!


- NEGATIVES -

- The convo about H's conflicting info. I felt maybe H was "up to something", hiding what he really might be up to later last night. ASSuming again? Maybe, but H's comment was contradicting what he said the other day.

* THINGS TO WORK ON *

* My approach to such circumstances as above -- I need help with how to work on this. Let me say that I did not attack nor ASSume anything when I talked to H. My words were, "I'm confused, and I was hoping you could explain it to me." When H asked, "What do you mean?", I replied with, "The other day you mentioned that (mf) would be watching the fight as his house, but today you said he's coming back from Hawaii and you might have to pick him up. It doesn't make sense to me; Could you please explain it?" This is when H told me that I misunderstood him then snapped, "Let me call him....!".....Am I not allowed to ask when I'm having doubts when H CLEARLY has said two different things??? I really need help with this one please.

Ok, another thing -- When we go to bed, H likes to intertwine our legs or sometimes play footsie . Last night, H was kind of kicking me gently.

Is he trying to be playful? And hoping that I will be in return? H has done this before in the past, but I never paid too much attention to it. Could he be trying to "playfully" initiate closeness? And maybe it could become something more ( )? Hmmm.....maybe I'll give it a try next time .

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: andrea Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/16/05 01:57 PM
Just to say you are doing so well...!!... go ahead, you are so clear abou what to work and what to avoid...!!.. and it seems your h is applying a lot of patience with your insecurness and that for me is "caring" about you and your feelings...
Andrea
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/16/05 05:37 PM
Thanks, Andrea. H really has been very caring, hasn't he?

------------------

Before H came home from work yesterday, he called to ask if I was alright with him going to play cards. I said that was fine. I then said that I would really like to talk about an agreement on the subject, and H said, "Let's talk now." I added that I wanted to do this so H could feel like he didn't have to creep on eggshells when asking, and I would just feel better knowing that we made a compromise.

I asked H what he would be comfortable with, and he said, ".....One night a week." Whoa! I wasn't at all expecting to hear that!

Now, I REALLY wanted to say, "OK!!!" ( LOL!!), but I was being realistic knowing how much H likes playing poker, so I said, "Well, how about 2 nights a week?" H said, "...Ok."

So, my small goal of a compromise has been reached with much ease .

Gotta go get S5 now. Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: SherryL Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/16/05 07:49 PM
JV,

I have been reading but not posting to you.

I just have to say, you are doing great.
You are really looking at the R, what is working, what isn't. I am happy for you. I know you still have a long road ahead, but you are definately getting there.

Sherry
Posted By: ValerieA Insecurity ALERT!!! - 05/16/05 07:54 PM
I'm going through a VERY difficult trust issue right now .....

H just left to pick up S9 from school. Before that, H said, "I wanted to go to the mall and get a new band...(H lost his wedding band while in AZ the last time )...and I want to take (baby) if you're alright with that." I said ok.

Then within seconds, I begin thinking, "Oh god .....What if H just "happens" to run into OW seeing that she works there??? What if they say "hi" and OW sees my baby and TOUCHES him saying "Oh he's so cute!"??? What if H just wants to see OW???"

Trying to hold it all together, I asked H, "How about if (baby) and I both go with you? Would that be alright?" H said, "Alright," but then after a short moment, he said, "Well....I was kind of thinking this could be some alone time for me and him....but if you want to come....that's fine." I don't know, but H sounded a bit discouraged .

After that, H was doing some paperwork and talking to a co-worker on the phone. He was very moody and quiet.

How do I get through this? H has never wanted to have "alone time" with the baby or take him anywhere before, and I'm just feeling really insecure right now that H wanted to go to the mall. OW works there, and I can't bear the thought of OW possibly seeing my H still and even more so with one of our boys -- and with the one that can't talk or blab anything no less.



JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/16/05 10:09 PM
Thank you, Sherry. I do the same many times -- checking in on everyone but not always posting.

Things are going really good over here.

---------------------

Well, I've settled down quite a bit from my insecurity. I was just thinking a moment ago that tomorrow is our anniversary, and what if H only wanted to go to the mall to get me something?

I still have no expectations about tomorrow, but I am on my way out now to get H a card.

Hoping but not expecting.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/17/05 06:05 AM
Journaling:

Wheeewww....one very tough day today , but I think we made it through ok .

My insecurity, anxiety, and ASSumptions got the better of me this late afternoon. I tried, I REALLY tried to put a reign on them but to no avail. I was a mess on the inside and trembling on the outside.

When H returned home from running errands, I asked if he still wanted to go shopping. H said, "Ummm...no. I'll go later."

Here's where my BAD feelings completely take over . I'm thinking, "H doesn't want to go shopping now because I asked to go, too. He doesn't want to go to the mall ESPECIALLY with ME in case we run into OW; H doesn't want to be seen with me."

After a moment, I was getting upset so I got the baby's diaper bag ready to go out for awhile.

Me: "Are you going anywhere?"
H: "No. Why?"
ME: "Your mom will be here in an hour or so to drop off S9 and S5, so I wanted to know if you'll be here for them when they get here."
H: "Yeah, I'll be here. Where are you going?"
Me: "I don't know, but I need to get out of the house for a bit."
H: "Where are you going?"
Me: "I don't know. I might go shopping."
H: "Did I do something wrong?"
Me: "No, I just need to get out."
H: "JV, talk to me. What did I do?"
Me: "You didn't do anything, H. I just have things on my mind, and I need to clear myself of them."
H: "What things?"
Me: "H, please. You know when I get like this that I need to be left alone. I'll be back in a couple of hours or so."
H: "No. I want to know what's wrong first."
Me: "......I'm having a bad moment, alright?"
H: "What kind of bad moment?"
Me: "......I'm feeling very insecure and afraid right now."
H: "Tell me why."
Me: "You've never asked for any time with (baby) or to take him anywhere before -- "
H: "So this is all because I wanted to take him to the mall?!"
Me: "No, I -- "
H: "OMG. Don't even tell me you thought I was taking him there to see SOMEONE ELSE." ( )
Me: "I'm going. You keep interrupting me. You asked me to talk, and now you won't let me finish."
H: "Alright, I'm sorry. Go ahead please."
Me: "I can't understand how you were acting happy to take (baby) to the mall with you, but when I asked if I could go along, your mood suddenly changed. I felt like you really didn't want ME to go, and yes, since you were going to the mall, it just brought back all the insecurity, all the distrust."
H: "JV, I can't just never go to the mall again."
Me: "I know that, H.....It's just really, really hard sometimes. I can feel so good for days, and then all of a sudden, something happens to trigger the bad things. I know you have NO intentions to hurt me.....These bad feelings might come up from time to time. I'm sorry, and I am trying to deal with them. I just need you to understand that."
H: "I'm sorry, JV. I'm trying. I'm really trying."
Me: "I know you are."
H: "I f***ed everything up so bad. It's all my fault."
Me: "It's BOTH our fault. I'm sorry, too."

H gave me a hug then I left. I took the baby over to my parents' house, and they watched him for a few hours while I went shopping.

H called me shortly after I left and said, "I just wanted to tell you to take all the time you need. Don't be in a hurry to come back on account of me. Buy yourself whatever you want and have fun." I said, "Thank you. I'll only be gone for a couple of hours though."

So I bought a couple of shorts and a shirt, and I also bought a new wedding band for H . Not to get him out of going to the mall himself -- I was already planning on doing this when H came back from AZ last week and told me about him losing it.

On my way home, I called H to see if he needed anything, and he said no thank you. H asked if he could go play cards tonight, I said sure, and he thanked me. H also went last night, so there's his 2 nights for the week .

When I returned home, H came right out and helped me bring in the baby and his stuff. The boys greeted me home, and H gave me a kiss .

Before H left, I was sitting on the couch when he leaned over me closely and said, "So...tomorrow we'll have been married for 8 years." I said, "Yep." He just kept looking into my eyes, kind of deeply, then smiled and said "ILY". H gave me a kiss and said, "We'll do something really cool tomorrow, alright?" I said, "Alright."

Within the following 10 minutes, H probably hugged me, kissed me, and said "ILY" about 5 times then he left.

He's been gone for almost 3 hours now and has called me twice just to talk .

So.....I vented to H , but I think I did it gently and smoothly enough for things not to get out of hand . I probably shouldn't have done that, but I think H and I made it through just fine.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: dodgermf Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/17/05 06:24 AM
JV,

You're up late! I just got back from the Dodger game (they lost again, that's 3 straight). Looks like things are going smooth for you. I'm glad, just be careful (the voice of reason and fear).

I've got to go to bed, another trip to LA in the morning...

DMF OUT
Posted By: andrea Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/17/05 01:09 PM
Jip Jip Huurraaaa JV...!!... again, h is so much caring abou yourself and feelings...!!... enjoy it...!!
Andrea
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/17/05 08:01 PM
D and Andrea,

As always, thank you for your support. It means a lot to me.

I am trying to be careful, too. It can be very difficult at times and even moreso when H won't give me my space, but maybe I should look at those times as small positives since H is willing to talk with me.

------------------------

I'm not sure what time H got home last night; I didn't look over at the alarm clock. Maybe around 2am or so since he told me he would be home by then.

All I remember was H coming in the room and laying on top of me saying, "Happy Anniversary," then giving me a really nice kiss !

This morning, H took the boys to school. While he was gone, I put his gift and card on the bed so that he would see them when he came back to shower.

After H got here and went into the bedroom, he came into the living room where I was, grabbed me and said, "Thank you!", and gave me a hug and kiss.

I asked H if he liked the ring and he said, "Yes, thank you. That was so thoughtful of you." I told H, "This one's not going back unless it needs to be sized," (to which H said it does).......The reason I said "this one's not going back" is because since H dropped all the weight, his original band didn't fit anymore, he was talking of getting a new one, so I bought him a platinum diamond band for Christmas. After receiving it, H said it was too small and went to have it sized, but he said the sales associates were giving him a hard time because he didn't have the sales slip (all they had to do was ask who bought it to look it up in their computer -- problem solved). I said I would take care of it, but H said, "NO! They p*ssed me off so take it back! I'll get a different one from someplace else." So I took it back, and I bought him a similar one at a different jeweler, but H was upset with that. He wouldn't wear it (even though it fit perfectly) because he said he liked the first one I bought best. So weeks were going by, I was upset that he wasn't wearing it, we argued about it, and I ended up returning the band again (right before the bomb dropped) due to H insisting that I do so.......Well, now I know why I had to return both wedding bands. H was having the A, and he felt he didn't deserve them (his words not mine).

I also bought him a muscle tee with the UFC logo on it (H likes that stuff) and a cap to go with it. He wore them today !

Before he left (he had to go near Auburn today to get some extra equipment from a former co-worker), he said that he was going to make arrangements with MIL to come over tonight and stay with the kids so he could take me out. I'm not expecting anything big. I'll settle for a nice dinner out and MAYBE a movie . We have the whole weekend to look forward to !

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: Dmsw4 Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/18/05 06:44 PM
JV, I was told to check out your thread. So I'll just be in the backround lurking for inspiration. mellanie
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/18/05 08:24 PM
Journaling:

Lots of highs and lows yesterday. It felt awkward and uncomfortable at so many points.

Before H had left to go to Auburn yesterday, he apologized for not having a gift for me just yet. I told him not to be sorry; I know and understand how much he has to do everyday. H said he was going to get me something to give to me later last night. I told H not to worry about it, and he said, "I HAVE to get you SOMETHING! It's our anniversary."

I called H later in the afternoon to ask what time he thought he'd be back home. I wanted to ask him if he could watch the boys so I could get my nails done. H said he would be home by 3pm at the latest, but he mentioned that he still hadn't picked out a gift for me, so if I could wait until 5pm to go, then that would give him plenty of time to do so. I said alright, I would see him then.

H got home at 5pm like he said. He came up to me, and I noticed he was all sweaty. I asked why and he told me he just came from the gym. H also said, ".....I didn't know what to get you. I knew you wouldn't want earrings or a necklace. I don't know. I'm just not good at buying gifts, so I didn't get you anything." I said, "That's alright. It's no biggie." H said he was sorry, and I told him it's ok, forget about it.............I have to admit that I was somewhat disappointed. I wasn't expecting anything grand, but I would've appreciated at least a card.

Anyway, I went to get my nails done while H took the boys over to MIL's house. As I was leaving the salon, H snuck up behind me! He gave me a kiss and said, "C'mon! Let's go out to eat." I asked if we could stop at the house (right around the corner) so I could change, and he said alright.

We got home, I was changing and then fixing my makeup. H was being playful and taking pictures of me on his phone, and then... !

We went to a restaurant in the next town over. We used to go there from time to time in our dating years and hadn't been there in a long while.

H wanted to have some drinks so we did (I'm not a very big drinker; H is but only on occasion). H had a couple of Coronas and a shot of tequila, and he ordered me a margarita. I've never had one before, but I have had tequila ! I took several sips, and that was all I could handle . The tequila was so strong! If I was still 21, it wouldn't have been a problem !

Me: "I just don't have the stomach for it anymore, I'm sorry. Not like back in the day."
H: "What do you mean?"
Me: "Not like when I used to be able to down at least 3 or 4 shots of tequila at once and not feel a thing until after the next couple of shots!"
H: "I don't remember that. When was this?"
Me: "Back when I used to hang out with FF (female friend)."
H: "Oh."........

FF -- a friend of mine long ago through work that H always hated; I don't even keep in touch with her anymore, and he still doesn't like her! He never knew her personally, but he always ASSumed she was trying to get me to leave him. Let me go into some background here before I go any further into yesterday's dinner convo:

There was a day when I was working (before I met FF) and some guy came up to me. He was picking up on me (I was dating H at the time), blah blah blah, and asked for my number. Instead of doing what I should have (telling this guy "I'm involved"), I gave him a phony number with my name (I couldn't give him a phony name -- my name was on my nametag !). I guess by giving him the bogus number, I felt I was shooting this guy down... nicely ? What I mean is not directly to his face. I'm sorry if anyone has trouble with that -- I was only 19 at the time !

When the guy left, H came up to me a short moment later, handed me a piece of paper and said, "What the h*ll is this, JV?" It was the phony number with my name on it. I was stunned and unsure of what was going on. Before I could get a word in and say, "Did you notice anything about the number?", H said, "I feel like the biggest f***ing moron right now. I was coming by to visit you. That guy you were just talking to was my friend XXXXX. We were talking about girlfriends. He was telling me how he doesn't trust any female; how they'll just burn you and cheat behind your back, and that I should watch out. You know what I told him? I told him, "No way. You're so wrong. You don't know what you're talking about. My girlfriend would never do anything like that to me." He started telling me I was a f***ing idiot to believe that. He said he could come in here, talk to you for a little bit, and get you to give him your number. So I told him to go ahead and try so I could laugh in his face when he came back out. Instead he came out laughing in my face! He gave me that (the paper) and said he told me so.....How could you f***ing do that to me? Do you give your number out to any m'f'er that asks for it, JV? I thought you f***ing loved me, huh? Or was that all BS?" I started asking, "H, did you look -- ", but then he immediately stormed off saying, " I don't even want to talk to you right now. I'm going out with my friends tonight. You can call me later....and you better not ever do this s**t to me again."

Again, I was at work during this. I was trying to keep it together, but I was so angry with myself for not being straightforward with that guy. Why didn't I just have it in me to say, "I've got a boyfriend; Leave me alone!"? Maybe because I liked the attention, but I was involved, so I felt the need to let him down easily.

I had called H after work, apologized for what happened, told him that if he looked at the number then he should have noticed it was wrong but he didn't -- all he saw was my name, and I explained that to him. We talked a lot more, and in the end, we decided to work through it.

During the next couple of weeks after that incident, H would keep breaking plans with me to do something with his friends. I started having suspicions, and one night when H was supposed to be out, I decided to go to his place to wait for him, but when I got there, H's car and a couple of others were there. I walk up to the door, ring the bell, ring it again, then XXXXX opens it, I look inside, and there's H...on the couch...with some girl sitting right up beside him . H turned pale, I was devastated, and turned around to leave, shaking, feeling lost, and nauseated. H came running after me, wouldn't let me go, was apologizing and saying he wasn't thinking right. He thought he was losing me, that I didn't love him, he had been drinking, this girl was all over him, he wasn't into her, but she kept pushing. She kept kissing him, he pushed her away sometimes, but she kept at it, then I got there. A very long night of begging (H), pleading (H), and crying (H and me). We tried to work it out for a SHORT time, but we split up because there was too much hurt for both of us.

So...we were apart for a couple of months although we spoke several times; mostly H calling me. Like I said, there was so much hurt, and one day while I was at work, FF came up to me at lunch, and we just started talking. After some time of becoming good friends, she had told me that she came up to me that day because I looked like I could really use a friend ( my goodness -- was it that obvious???) Anyhow, FF helped me GAL! We went out together and with others (to parties, festivals, the beach, etc.), and I was really enjoying life again. I was also speaking to H less and less, and I had also met someone else -- it was never serious though.

One day, H called and told me he had a surprise for me. I went to his workplace, he came outside with me, and gave me a pager (back when pagers were the "in" thing ). H said he wanted to be able to get a hold of me if I wasn't home. I asked what for, and H told me he missed me, he wanted me back, he wanted his girlfriend (me) back. We talked for awhile and got back together (I stopped contact with the OP).

It was rough; lots of distrust on both sides. I had found out that H was seeing someone while we were apart and still talking to and seeing her on occasion. I was withdrawing again, H finally cut the cord with her, but I still maintained my distance by going out with FF. H was not at all happy about this because I had made many plans with FF to do things and would not break them. I invited him along a few times, but he refused. I think H saw FF as a threat since she was SINGLE. We would often go out to clubs and go dancing. H always let me go, but I knew he was feeling insecure about it because he would always ask how many guys hit on me or how many did I dance with. I always did my best to reassure H that I wasn't looking to meet anyone; I only wanted to go out to have a good time. After that, H started taking me out more and more to clubs, theme parks, baseball games, movies, etc, and I did less and less with FF. She didn't mind; she was happy to see that H and I were on the right track. Then I became pregnant, and well, you know the rest of the sitch from there .

Whew ! Back to last night's dinner convo:

H: "Where were you guys when you would drink like that?"
Me: "At her place."
H: "Who else was there? Any guys?"
Me: "Sometimes. But mostly me, her, and her roommate."
H: "What guys were there? How many?"
Me: "Most of the time it was just the guy FF was seeing at the time."
H: "What about that guy you were seeing? Was he there?"
Me: "......Why are you asking me this?"
H: "I'm just talking. Can't we talk?"
Me: "Yes, we can talk."
H: "So...was he there?"
Me: "....Yeah, just once." (GREAT anniversary discussion, huh? )
H: ".....How many times did you see him?"
Me: "Only a few times over a couple of months."
H: "A couple of months, huh?"
Me: "Yes. When we were split up."
H: "When we were split up?"
Me: "Yeah. When you thought I gave my number out, and then you had that get-together at your house..."
H: "Oh, right, right........So did you sleep with him?"
Me (getting really uneasy and irritated, but keeping calm): "NO, but he did kiss me."
H: "HE kissed YOU?"
Me: "Alright -- WE kissed."
H: ".......So...what ever happened with him?"
Me: "You and I got back together. It was never serious with him anyway."
H: "Why not?"
Me: "Because it just wasn't."
H: "Hmm."
Me: "Thanks for taking me out tonight and making all the arrangements. I really appreciate it." (WHY didn't I do this sooner ? Change the subject, that is.)
H: "No problem. I want to take you out this weekend, like on Friday or Saturday, and just drink and have fun, alright?"
Me: "Alright. We have the whole weekend, and we don't have to get the kids until Monday evening. I would still like to go to Great America or some other amusement park, if that's alright?"
H: "Yeah, we'll see ( ). I still have installs to do, and hopefully I can get them scheduled around the weekend."

We talked more about other things. One time H said, "Wasn't it here that (blah blah blah) happened?" I said I couldn't remember. H said, "I think it was, and I know I had to have been with you.".....Ummm....Ouch. That triggered more BAD thoughts about H's lunches (possibly dinners, too) with OW.

We ordered dessert but got it to go. I thanked H again for the dinner, and he thanked me for earlier ! After H signed the bill, he grabbed my hand and wrote on my palm: "I Love XXXXXXX (me)...Love, XXXXX (H)."

We went to pick up the kids from MIL's then went home. I put the kids to bed, we watched some TV then went to bed. H was playfully acting like he was going to sleep, but I playfully wouldn't let him !

There is more I need to add about after we went to bed, and it's hard for me to do it, but I need to get it out. The baby's up now, so to be continued......

Thank you for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/18/05 08:26 PM
Sure thing, Mellanie.

If I can help anyone out in any way, I'm there! I owe a LOT to many here!

JV
Posted By: guyinhou Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/18/05 08:57 PM
JVJKB

Wow!

Positives!

Don't worry abou tnot changing the subject fast enough - the important thing is that it didn't spiral out of control! You saw what was going on, and changed the interaction by deciding carefully on your response.

As a guy, let me tell you how great it is to just be able to spend time with the person we love, and to just not have the R hanging over our head. We know it's there, and it needs to be dealt with, but it's so great to just get to enjoy your company.

Now I'm speaking as the guy trying to keep the W here, but I think I can relate to how your H feels. He probably carries guilt that you can't imagine is actually there, and you have given him a special gift by just being able to enjoy each other's company.

I agree he should have gotten you something. Perhaps a better way, instead of saying it didn't matter (which it does!), was to say something that he would find reassuring, like "Well, any gift would be fine with me. What's important is that it came from you. I do like black hills gold, and I could use some earrings"

let me tell you, guys love very SPECIFIC ideas for gifts. It's hard enough to try to get it right, and we don't know what we're doing, it feels strange, and having a specific item in mind makes it so much simpler. Sure, you'd like him to know what to do on his own, but he probably needs to experience some success in that area to build some habits, so if you can make it easier for him, I think that shows that you appreciate his efforts. I would find it encouraging.

I can totally relate about the up and down. Sometimes I think things are moving up, but the trend can be hard to see because it's such a wild ride.

Keep it up, it's working.

Tim
Posted By: Dmsw4 Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/18/05 09:01 PM
Compared to what I've been wracking my brain about...hey, but everyone has their crud to deal with. You seem to be handling yours very well. I'll keep watching. Mellanie
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/19/05 04:22 AM
Hi there, guyinhou. Thanks for visiting!

Quote:

As a guy, let me tell you how great it is to just be able to spend time with the person we love, and to just not have the R hanging over our head. We know it's there, and it needs to be dealt with, but it's so great to just get to enjoy your company.



Thank you for this. It's been a great reminder to me that H IS trying and he DOES love me ! Why else would he still be here?

Quote:

Now I'm speaking as the guy trying to keep the W here, but I think I can relate to how your H feels. He probably carries guilt that you can't imagine is actually there, and you have given him a special gift by just being able to enjoy each other's company.



H does have an enormous amount of guilt. He has told me this numerous times. In the beginning of all this, I felt so many times that I couldn't handle it, I couldn't handle his continuous indecision. But I finally realized that no matter how hard I tried to help or even possibly persuade H, this is something he would have to come to terms with on his own. Therefore I stopped the pressure (intentional and unintentional), I backed off, and I just started going with the flow. I let H set the pace, and I follow along.

Quote:

I agree he should have gotten you something. Perhaps a better way, instead of saying it didn't matter (which it does!), was to say something that he would find reassuring, like "Well, any gift would be fine with me. What's important is that it came from you. I do like black hills gold, and I could use some earrings"



That's a good suggestion ; I will try that next time, thank you. I think I tend to tell H "it's ok, forget about it" because I just don't want to show him in any way that I am a little hurt and disappointed. I don't want nor do I expect an extravagant gift; I would just appreciate some kind of little token from H (like a card) that would tell me he's thinking of me and acknowledging the importance of the occasion.

Thanks again, guyinhou. I truly appreciate your male perspective on this. It really helps!

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/19/05 04:30 AM
Mellanie,

I haven't checked out your thread yet, but I will. If there's any kind of support or advice I can offer that you haven't heard already, I will gladly do so!

Yes, there is a lot of crud to deal with, but we CAN get through it, even when it seems impossible, and no matter what, we will be so much stronger in the end.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/19/05 06:22 AM
Journaling:

Alright. Continuing on:

This is quite difficult because it's sooo personal, but I need to get it out of my system, and it's not something I can talk to friends or family about. Maybe someone here can help guide me through this.

During our last heated convo where H said he was leaving again, H had said something so detrimental, so injurious, so hurtful to me. When he got home, he DID sincerely apologize for saying it, but I have struggled so much with being able to just let it go.

My thoughts were going rampant, and I was a complete emotional mess, so since H said he wanted out and it was over, I asked the questions that were bothering me the most at that time (a VERY DUMB thing to do ). That part of the convo (and H with a hateful tone):

Me: "Well, since it's over, can I ask you about some things that have been bothering me? And just tell me the truth because I have to know so I can let this go and move on."
H: "Ok."
Me: "Did you have -- "
H: "No."
Me: "Let me finish please....Did you have with OW? Whether it was oral or penetration?"
H: "No."
Me: "Then why did you stop having with me after that night you never came home?"
H: "You mean that night I f***ed up my tire?!"
Me: "I don't remember. I just know that we stopped having after that night. We did once in January, and you were so not into it. And ever since then when we would, you put a pillow over your face. What is that about? And when I would do what you used to love, you seem to hate it now. Why?"
H: "I don't know why I put a pillow over my face; I'm sorry. I don't know."
Me: "I always thought we had a good life, but you just don't seem to enjoy it anymore. Why? Just be blunt and tell me the truth."
H (very hateful): "If you knew you were in a relationship, and you were only in it for the sake of the kids, and when your spouse wanted when you didn't, but you did it anyway because it's your only option, how would that make you feel?!"
Me: "I would probably feel dead inside."
H: "There's your answer! That's as blunt as I can be."

..... BIG OUCH .....

Now of course, H never left, we have been intimate a few times since that convo, and I do enjoy H still although that "bluntness" is stuck in the back of my mind, and I begin wondering, "Is he REALLY liking this? Or is he just doing this for me?"

(Ok, I had to take a break -- it's some time later now. H isn't here; he's out playing cards with one of our mutual friends. H said he only gets 1 night of poker next week for this; how can I disagree with that? )

So....I am trying to get over that remark, but it damaged so much in me. H said he was truly sorry, and he does still enjoy with me.

Back to last night when we went to bed; and I had a MAJOR breakdown :

Ok...so...we were in bed, H was playfully pretending to be tired, but I was playfully keeping him awake ! One thing lead to another then ! We were both into it (well, I know I was) like in the early days. H was really into making sure I was "pleased"; he always is. After my numerous moments of pleasure, H just "couldn't" anymore even before getting his own "enjoyment" out of it. (I'm sorry -- I'm trying to put this ever so gently so no one gets offended .) To be a bit blunt, H lost his e***tion.
When this happened, I lost it, and I tried so hard not to, but I began crying. I believe I personalized this as H not being into me, and I felt so inadequate, so unfeminine, so unattractive.

H was stunned and held me trying to console me and asked what was wrong. I said I didn't know (because I really was just a mess).

Still to be continued.....H is home now.

JV
Posted By: kml Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/19/05 12:35 PM
J -
depression and/or guilt (or too much alcohol). It's not about you - don't makeit into a big thing.
Ellie
Posted By: andrea Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/19/05 02:08 PM
JV
i think the same as Ellie... maybe alcohol and all the back memories around you do a lot...!!
Reading your gentle intimate description and that conversation you and h had, i can remember hatefull and hurting words my h had said me in back crisis since 3 years in a row... and now, when we talked about that, he always said this wors were said only bc the moment... I dont know and still doesnt beleive him... but i also know sitch can changes and men use to live by moments, scenary, changng from one to the other so easy and quickly... Last sunday, when h and me were intimate finally afer almost 5 months, although i had thpught abput this moment so scared bc me not functioning well or him, was so great... and he feel it bc the message hi sent me... he doesnt use at all to send me cell messag, so... yes, i made him feel great...!... and i will remember this for the future... when that terrible and hurting words can arouse from him... bla bla bla... i am atractive and i can makes you feel so high in intimate R... I think his change modd after that intimate moment was him thinking again... so... i said i dont feel happy... i had said her i dont desire her... but i not only desore her yesterday but also enjoy it too much... what a hell is going on inside of me..!! .. So relax... take a breath... dont think too much on that past words as the true... and continue going on....
Andrea
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/19/05 04:35 PM
Ellie and Andrea,

Thank you for your feedback and reassurance. After talking with H and reading what you had to offer, it WAS the amount of alcohol H had to drink that night and NOT ME. H reminded me that this actually happened once before a really loooong time ago; another time when he consumed too much alcohol. So I do feel much better now hearing it and most of all being reassured by H, but many times I need to hear the reassurances more than once. Thanks again.

-----------------------

Back to anniversary night:

Basically, H reassured me that it was the alcohol and not me by saying, "Who do I love, JV?", "Who's my sexy wife?", and "Who does this man belong to?" After answering "me" to the last one, H said, "Then come get your man, babe."... !

Yesterday, H was working all day doing installs. When he got home and after the kids were in bed, H asked again why I started crying the other night. I thought very carefully about what to say because, of course, I didn't want to say, "It was because of what you said to me before!" . I told H, "I took what happened personally. I thought it had to do with me, and it made me feel inadequate." H said, "Inadequate? Not at all. I just had too much to drink, I'm sorry." I told H don't be because he didn't do anything wrong.

Awhile later, our mutual friend called H to see if he wanted to go play cards with him. H told him he would call him back. H went to take a shower and afterwards said to me, "So, here's the deal. I'm taking Saturday off. We can drive down to Magic Mountain on Friday after the kids are gone, spend all of Saturday there, but I have to work on Sunday, ok?" I said ok then H said, "Well, I know I used up my 2 nights already this week, but if you let me go tonight with XXX then I only get to go 1 night next week. Are you alright with that? If not, I won't go." I told H that was fine with me.

So H quickly got dressed and was running around the house looking for his keys, ID, etc. H said, "I don't have to work early tomorrow, so....I'll see you whenever I get home. Bye." I said bye then he left..... ....H was in such a hurry there was no "thank you", "ILY", a hug, or whatever from him.....BUT then H walked back in the door, came to me, gave me a kiss and hug and said, "Thank you......I am sorry about last night. Did you at least have fun?" I said, "Yes, of course!" Then H said, "I just wanted to please you." I said, "You did, H. I really enjoyed being with you; I always do." Then H said, "Alright. Thank you. I'll see you when I get home. ILY."

H returned home only after about 2 1/2 hours. He booked a quick win!

How exciting! We're going to Magic Mountain this weekend ! I've only been there once when I was 14, and H has never been there before. We should definitely have a blast !

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: andrea Re: Seeing some light ahead - 05/20/05 12:51 PM
happy Magic weekend JV.... enjoy it a lot....!!!!..
Andrea
Posted By: ValerieA What can I do? - 05/20/05 08:13 PM
I don't have much time to post.

Last night took a turn for the WORST , and according to H, it could have all been avoided if I just let him go play cards like he wanted to. Never mind our compromise, huh?

Seeing that I'm limited on time, let me just get to it (and H had been drinking):

H: "No, you're not alright with it.......and I'm not alright with anything."
Me: "What are you not alright with, H?"

H told me again just how much he hates himself. He says I'll never understand what's going on in him. He knows that me and the boys are the best thing that has ever happened to him, but when he looks at us, he hates himself even more and more each day because he's reminded of what a s**t he feels he is.

He said he's a "compulsive gambler, an occasional alcoholic, a piece of s**t, and I don't deserve to live. I REALLY wish you would just leave me."

He admits that he is a bulimic, he knows he's killing himself, and this is why he hasn't stopped; he said he IS trying although not as much as he knows he could. He refuses to become a "fat pig like I was" again.

He said he can't sleep at night and has the worst nightmares ever. H said, "If you even knew half of the s**t I dream about, you'd be gone in a second, JV!" He told me that he dreams about killing others to survive, police chasing him all over the place, and being nailed shut inside of a coffin with a small hole just big enough for the barrel of the rifle (next to him in his dream) to fit through, then he just starts shooting at anyone and everybody.

He said, "I want to die so bad; I want to kill myself all the time, but I don't because of you guys. But then I feel like you would all be so much better off without me. I hate my father, and I hate my mother. I hate my mother! I love her, but I hate her for marrying a piece of s**t like me!"

Then he was telling me he just doesn't understand why I don't leave him; how can I stay with someone so f***ed up as he is.

I told him because ILY, and I can't just turn my back on him when he needs so much right now. I told him I was so sorry for the way that he feels, he must be going through such h*ll right now, and I can't even imagine or pretend to understand what he's going through. I told him I've been worried for so long, but everytime I tried to help or suggested getting help, he has always refused it. I want to help him, but he has to want to be helped.

H said, "ILY, JV, and I would never hurt you or the boys. I'm going to have some drinks with XXXXX, then I'm coming home, and I'll tell you "I'm sorry and ILY" like I always do. That's what I'm going to do because that's just my routine. This is my f***ed up life."



There is so much more, but I have to go now.

What can one do to help a severely depressed loved one when they don't want the help? H needs it so badly.

JV

BTW, I registered on a depression forum last night, but haven't received any replies yet.
Posted By: Dmsw4 Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/20/05 08:22 PM
JV, I can't even imagine what you and H must be going through. My H is depressed, but never says anything about ending his life. You have to take it seriously, but I have no idea what to tell you. I'll just bump you up and keep in touch. mel
Posted By: kml Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/20/05 08:44 PM
JV -
Have you ASHKED your H if he would go see a psychiatrist, or are you ASSuming he wouldn't go? Sometimes, when they confess all this to you, it means they are actually ready to get help.

If he's not willing to go - please go out and buy two books by Julia Ross - The Mood Cure and The Diet Cure. The Mood Cure addresses nutritional approaches to depression and other disorders, using diet and supplements. The Diet Cure has a chapter which deals specifically with nutritional repair for bulimics and anorexics. (You may also want to get a book by Dr. Amen, Change Your Brain, Change Your Life ).

If H will read these with you and try some of the approaches, great. If not - would he be open to taking vitamins that you give him? Based on what he's saying, 5-HTP would be a good start - he needs to have his serotonin levels raised, and quickly. It also helps with bulimia and compulsive behaviors (that's why Prozac is used for these things, because it raises serotonin levels too).

Now - as to the gambling - you need to protect yourself financially. He's confessed he can't stop. Cut up the credit cards, move the money in the bank, do what you need to do.

Approach H kindly and with confidence - that he is sick and you WILL help him get BETTER, you will NOT give up on him.

Ellie
Posted By: ValerieA Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/22/05 11:13 PM
Mellanie -- Thank you so much for your concern. This is the scariest ordeal imaginable, and I wouldn't even wish it on my worst enemy (if I had one ).

------------------

Ellie -- THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for all your help and suggestions. I am so glad that someone here is able to offer me all I need to know and do. Thank you!

Quote:

Have you ASHKED your H if he would go see a psychiatrist, or are you ASSuming he wouldn't go? Sometimes, when they confess all this to you, it means they are actually ready to get help.



No, I'm not assuming this at all. I HAVE asked H to get help many times, but he has always said no or just shrugged me off, so I quit, but when H told me the other night just how BAD his depression really is, I asked again for him to get help. He said nothing.

Quote:

If he's not willing to go - please go out and buy two books by Julia Ross - The Mood Cure and The Diet Cure.... (You may also want to get a book by Dr. Amen, Change Your Brain, Change Your Life ).



Will do!

Quote:

If H will read these with you and try some of the approaches, great. If not - would he be open to taking vitamins that you give him? Based on what he's saying, 5-HTP would be a good start - he needs to have his serotonin levels raised, and quickly. It also helps with bulimia and compulsive behaviors (that's why Prozac is used for these things, because it raises serotonin levels too).



I don't think I could get him to follow along with the books, but I may be able to get him to take the vitamins if I were to tell him they would help his heart and/or weight management.

Where can I get 5-HTP? Any pharmacy or would GNC have it?

I have bought him multivitamins, and I know he was taking them for awhile, but I think he may have stopped. I'll gently bring this up and try to get him into taking them again if he did stop.

Quote:

Now - as to the gambling - you need to protect yourself financially. He's confessed he can't stop. Cut up the credit cards, move the money in the bank, do what you need to do.



This is a tough one. We have separate accounts -- H has everything in his accounts and gives me what I need to pay the bills, etc, etc. I do see the bank statements all the time, and everything has always been fine -- even now.

You may think I'm being naive or I'm just ignoring the truth -- maybe I am. But I have ALWAYS had complete trust in H when it comes to money issues. Yes, he loves to gamble and can't really stop -- I've known this for a long time, but let me just say this. H has always been a "tightwad", if you will, with money -- ALWAYS. He is awesome at making money and at saving it. Sometimes I have resented him for being so frugal, but I also respect him for it because I know he is looking out for our financial security.

H always takes a set amount of money with him when gambling and never takes any more than that amount. If he loses once, no biggie. Twice, still no big deal. Three times, H will then give it a rest for a couple of weeks, and let me tell you, H doesn't lose often. This is why he plays so much. Why would anyone want to stop doing something that is making them money? I don't like how often he goes, but I can understand why he wants to all the time. H plays in high limit games where the players are very disciplined, intelligent, and respectable. Of course, there are some players that play wrecklessly, and those players are targets for great poker players like H. By the end of the night, the bad players will have given all their $$$ to H and others.

Again, maybe I am naive, but I am not at all worried about the money.

I am here for H, and I will not give up on him. I told him this the other night. I love him and I want to help him get better. I think he wants it, too, but I think he is really afraid. Of what exactly, I don't really know.

---------------------

Well, this weekend didn't turn out the way I had hoped, but with all that happened the other night, I kind of knew it wouldn't.

No Magic Mountain or any other amusement park this weekend.....maybe some other time.

So what did we do? After sensing that H really didn't want to go to a theme park, I suggested, "Alright. We can either go to Great America (it's closer), or maybe go to the city and hang around the pier and take an Alcatraz tour (something I've always wanted to do but never have), or go to Stinson Beach for the day, or we can just go to Reno. What do you think?".....What do you think H chose?

We spent Friday night and all day yesterday in Reno . Not what I wanted, but I did suggest it to make H happy, and it did.

We did have a really good time though . We were with each other the whole time and enjoyed it. We played poker (what a surprise ), but this time we played on the same table which means H let me play high limit for once . Pretty fun! I was nervous playing in that big of a game, but hey, I won some $$$ ! And I got to keep it, too ! LOL!

We also played in a tournament together in which I placed 3rd and won $600. Very cool ! H said he was proud of me; he said I did such a great job, and he thought I was an awesome player. BTW, $600 isn't much to H since he plays big games, but it was to me since I've only played in small games. And the fact that H played in such a small tournament with me said a lot to me. H wanted to share his time with ME instead of being somewhere else in a much bigger tournament.

And in spending all that time together, H did not drink. Not once ! Can you imagine? In Reno? Where everyone's drinking and having a good time? And H CHOSE not to drink. Nice !

Another a BIG plus -- H didn't purge at all this weekend. I've been watching and listening. I think this may have something to do with something I said before we left Friday for Reno. H was looking at a picture of himself taken on New Year's Eve and asked, "Do I look any different now than from then?" I looked at the photo and said, "You look more muscular in that picture." -- Is that an OOPS? I knew not to say "you look good/great" or "you look thinner/fatter". -- Well H seemed stunned and said, "Are you serious?!"

After that he was really quiet and in deep thought. I asked him what was wrong, and he said, "Nothing. I'm just really mad at myself because I'm losing muscle mass.....I'm going to start taking my protein shakes and working out again. I haven't been doing it as much anymore; I've just been hitting the treadmill and that's it.....No more. I'm going to stop throwing up; it's f***ing me up. I worked so hard to build up more muscle and now it's fading.....I'm not mad at you for saying that either. I'm glad you said it because it made me realize what an idiot I've been. So no more."......Yes, these were H's words, but I know many bulimics say they will stop and don't, so I'm still looking out.

I also had another insecure moment while in Reno. While playing in the tournament, H and I were on different tables at one point. After the tournament was over:

H: "One of the cocktail waitresses was flirting with me."...... ......
Me: "Really?...hmmm...Which one?"
H: "I don't know. I just remember she was blonde."
Me: "....How was she flirting with you?"
H: "I was ordering a hot chocolate and she said, "You're not allowed to order anything from me if it doesn't have any alcohol in it." I wasn't sure if I heard her right so I said, "What was that?", and she repeated it. I said, "Why's that?", and she said, "How else am I supposed to get you liquored up?" I didn't say anything to her, and when she came back with my hot chocolate, she said she was sorry if she upset me. The guy next to me said, "Man, you got ice coming off of you!" I asked him what did he mean, and he said that I was cold to her."

I think H picked up on my feelings. H grabbed my hand, held it, and smiled at me. OH! That reminds me -- H walked BESIDE me all weekend holding my hand ! I initiated it sometimes, but only after H did MANY times (including the first few times) on his own!

Above all, we did have a fun time together . And did I mention that there was involved?

Thanks for listening.

JV

PS -- I got 2 replies to my post on that depression forum I joined. One was pretty encouraging, and the other......very, very, very troubling, and pretty horrific. I'll talk about them soon.
Posted By: cally Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/23/05 12:03 AM
JV......I think your husband is severly disturbed. I think you need to schedule him an appointment and get him some help A.S.A.P. He sounds like he may even be manic depressive. Some of things he said would have really scared the crap out of me. JV..I would be be very careful of letting him alone with the kid's. I think he very clearly was letting you know that he is disturbed right now and going through a lot. Even with this bulimia of his sure he may say he is not going to but that is just talk with someone with an eating disorder. He is like a walking time bomb walking around with this eating disorder on top of bulimia. He may come crashing down at any point with his health and how would you feel if say he fainted when he was driving with one of the kid's or something severe happened.

I also think you are being naive about his gambling problem. Why would he have to have a seperate accounts from you and only give you what you need? Also you asked him for a compromise and within the first week went back on it. Then blames YOU for his outburst and said it could have been avoided if you didn't get mad about his card playing.

He seems like he does A LOT of blaming. Just like his affair is that YOUR fault also? He does have a lot to make up for and has to change his ways also. I just want to give you my advice that you don't deserved to have everything blamed on you. Marriage takes two. It also takes two to cause problems and have differences.

His whole demeanor just sounds very very troubling. He sounds selfish. Just like this weekend. he don't get a gift and then tells you he will make it up. He has the chance to take you somewehere that you would like to go. Then what happens is YOU compromise and end up playing poker. Because of course that will make HIM happy. What about you? JV just don't forget about you. Maybe the best thing would be to seperate for just awhile so he can sort himself out. Maybe that will be the push he needs to get some help. I think you tend to just push this down so you don't have to deal with his tirades and health problems and demands JV. Because it just don't sound like this kind of behavior scared you. Just a couple weeks back this is same man that ripped off a door just because you needed just a little space to yourself. Rip off a door when his children are close by and could have witnessed this. Again just think about it....he really needs help.
Posted By: ValerieA Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/23/05 03:41 AM
cally -- Thank you for dropping in.

Quote:

.... He is like a walking time bomb walking around with this eating disorder.... He may come crashing down at any point....



He is.... he really is . He has said so many, many times that he feels like fighting. Like just picking a fight with a total stranger and beating the crap out of them. He has said that he even wishes someone would just look at him the wrong way to set him off.

He has so much RAGE inside...I know it, and I can feel it, and I am so very worried.

Quote:

I also think you are being naive about his gambling problem. Why would he have to have a seperate accounts from you and only give you what you need?



Yeah, you're probably right. I am being naive about his gambling addiction, but I KNOW that the money sitch is not in any trouble. It's hard to explain, but it's the truth. H would NOT bury us in financial ruins. He is TOO proud of what he has accomplished with our money. We've always had separate accounts, too. Never a joint one -- Why? I don't know.....maybe because I never asked or insisted to have the accounts changed into both our names. This is just what works for us. It always has. I wouldn't mind having a joint account, but I'm not sure how H would feel about that.

Quote:

He seems like he does A LOT of blaming. Just like his affair is that YOUR fault also?



Yes, H does tend to blame things on everyone else. It's everyone else's fault because they are "idiots". Except he never outright blamed me for his A. He has taken the blame for that and said that he somehow got lost.

Quote:

He does have a lot to make up for and has to change his ways also. I just want to give you my advice that you don't deserved to have everything blamed on you. Marriage takes two. It also takes two to cause problems and have differences.



I know this. Does H? He says he does, but he is in such a deep, dark place right now that I don't think he can truly comprehend it.

Quote:

His whole demeanor just sounds very very troubling. He sounds selfish. Just like this weekend. he don't get a gift and then tells you he will make it up. He has the chance to take you somewehere that you would like to go. Then what happens is YOU compromise and end up playing poker. Because of course that will make HIM happy. What about you? JV just don't forget about you.



You're right, and I felt/feel the same way. H keeps saying at least once or twice a week that he wants to make things up to me, but.......I'm still waiting.

I felt like this weekend was going to be a good start for H to do that, but he didn't use this opportunity. He had the perfect chance and didn't take advantage of it. But at the same time, how can I expect -- wait, scratch that -- how can I even hope that he will do these kinds of things when he is so severely depressed? I can't. I just can't have any hope, I guess, until he gets help.

Quote:

Maybe the best thing would be to seperate for just awhile so he can sort himself out. Maybe that will be the push he needs to get some help.



Do you really think so?

I have struggled with this decision myself for these past few months. Many times I feel like I SHOULD give H what HE wants -- many times I feel that I should leave to see if it would really help him. Then again, how can I bring myself to leaving him when he is so, so sick? I feel like I really should go, but at the same time, I can't bring myself to actually doing it.

And what if I do leave? And H does the fatally sad and unfortunate act ?

Quote:

I think you tend to just push this down so you don't have to deal with his tirades and health problems and demands JV.



Thinking about this.....you're right, I do .

I don't want to cause any friction between us, so this is why I change plans for him or agree to what he wants. I don't know what else to do. I'm afraid if I speak up again like I used to, this will push him away again. Even if I try to compromise like I do now, H doesn't take too kindly to it. He doesn't blow up about it, but he does become irritated easily. I think H perceives this as nagging or controlling even when I am NOT doing that at all. I speak to him calmly, and I do not get bent out of shape when he disagrees like I used to.

When I think of how things are in the R now compared to before, I see many changes in me. In H, all I see is that he is a bit more caring about my feelings, but everything else is the same. H is selfish -- he wants what he wants when he wants it. If something doesn't benefit H, then it doesn't matter. This is H -- even SIL (who you could say is neutral) has said this about him.

Quote:

Because it just don't sound like this kind of behavior scared you.... Again just think about it....he really needs help.



It does scare me ! I'm scared everytime I think about it or remember it.

It scares me when I think about H talking about all his horrible nightmares, and that he said, "If you even knew half the s**t I dream about, you would leave me in a second, JV!" It makes me wonder out of concern and fear if H has dreamt of physically harming me and/or the boys since he also said, "You have to know I would never hurt you or the boys.".... ??? I have thought about this everyday these past 2 or 3 days when H said all this, and I have been keeping it down inside because I don't want to show H that fear.

But I have been thinking I should say something about it, and very soon, but am I misinterpreting doing this as pressure? Is this because I am also in DB mode and trying to keep H close? That I'm afraid to say anything for fear of losing the ground I have worked through such h*ll to regain?

Here's one of the posts I received from the depression forum that has me terrified :

I know what it is like to be married to someone who was depressed but refused medication and drank and took illegal drugs until he killed himself. I was only married to him for 16 months but we had been together for 8 years.

Tell your husband for the sake of your marriage and your kids to see a psychiatrist right away. There is no shame in seeing one. There are tons of men out there that are on antidepression meds which is much better than alcohol. You need to be prepared to leave him if he won't do this for the safety of your children and you. His dreams are very disturbing because my ex went out and killed his cat of 9 years two weeks before he killed himself.

Do you want to be alive with your children or possibly be a statistic of an alcoholic who kills his family then himself. You need to be ready to leave at any time with the kids and possibly leave him for good. I know you love him but if he isn't going to help himself or listen to you and have emotional affairs it says something about his character. Please do what is right for you and your babies.



Frightening, so very, very frightening .

JV
Posted By: kml Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/23/05 12:33 PM
JV -
you can find 5-HTP in a health-food store - possibly a vitamin store (like GNC?) might carry it too. I haven't seen it at the big drug store chains.

Fish oil capsules may also be helpful to give him. I think telling him these are for his heart is an excellent idea. A multivitamin and a B-50 complex too (make sure he takes the B in the morning, because it can increase dreaming - not such a good idea for him right now?). Read the books and you will see what else may be helpful.

Sounds like a lot of positive steps this weekend - H may even be a bit relieved that he told you about some of his problems and you didn't abandon him.

Quote:

It scares me when I think about H talking about all his horrible nightmares, and that he said, "If you even knew half the s**t I dream about, you would leave me in a second, JV!" It makes me wonder out of concern and fear if H has dreamt of physically harming me and/or the boys since he also said, "You have to know I would never hurt you or the boys.".... ??? I have thought about this everyday these past 2 or 3 days when H said all this, and I have been keeping it down inside because I don't want to show H that fear.





First of all - dreams are dreams - just because he has terrible dreams doesn't mean he has any intent - do you do all the things you dream about? Probably this just means he is having disturbed sleep. Another possibility, though, is this: there is a form of obsessive compulsive disorder where the person is bothered by persistent intrusive thoughts of doing something horrible - even though they don't want to do that thing at all. The guilt and shame they feel is horrible - because they don't understand that this is just like a mental "hiccup", and not a reflection of any hidden "inner feelings". Since 40% of anorexics also have OCD, it is possible that your H is experiencing something like this.

As for him not throwing up - that is great that he has decided to try to stop. Most bulimics will need help, though - and I can tell you, they sure can hide it well! We had NO idea my D was doing it, because she would do it at school and in the shower at night after dinner. Be supportive, give him praise and tell him you understand how hard it is. He may backslide somtimes but reassure him that he CAN beat this.

Of course, I think the best thing would be for him to get professional help - I am offering these other ideas only because I think they are better than doing nothing, and I know how hard it can be to get him into treatment. (The woman who wrote those books has a clinic in Mill Valley, btw - is that anywhere near you?)

Act As If he is going to get better - I know when my D had her eating disorder, she really relied on me to be sure she could succeed - it scared her to death if I looked like I was giving up hope.

Ellie
Posted By: ValerieA Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/24/05 09:13 PM
Hey, Ellie! Have I thanked you enough lately? I feel truly blessed to have someone give me all the help and support that you have like so many others. Really, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Quote:

JV - you can find 5-HTP in a health-food store - possibly a vitamin store (like GNC?) might carry it too.... Fish oil capsules may also be helpful to give him. I think telling him these are for his heart is an excellent idea. A multivitamin and a B-50 complex too (make sure he takes the B in the morning, because it can increase dreaming - not such a good idea for him right now?). Read the books and you will see what else may be helpful.



Thanks again. I was busy all day yesterday, and today H and I have been doing things around the house (replacing a couple of ceiling fans that went kaput, shopped for a new kitchen light fixture, etc). He just stepped out to go look at a car he's thinking about buying. So this is my first chance of having spare time to post. Tomorrow H is supposed to work with (bf), so I should be able to go to GNC and get the vitamins -- if they don't have them, there's a health food store in the next town over (only a 10 minute drive). I also will be going to the bookstore to get the books and some others I've been wanting.

H has been loading himself with bananas and orange juice like crazy, so I am DEFINITELY telling H the vitamins are for his heart !

Quote:

Sounds like a lot of positive steps this weekend - H may even be a bit relieved that he told you about some of his problems and you didn't abandon him.



Yes, LOTS of positives ! And yes, H seemed to be much more laid back/at ease this weekend. I would imagine keeping all that inside for so long and then finally letting it go could have given H some sense of relief (???). I know he's far from being well though.

Quote:

First of all - dreams are dreams - just because he has terrible dreams doesn't mean he has any intent...



You're right, and I know this. Me being so scared -- that's what my rampant thinking does to me . I think I am much more concerned and worried than scared.

Quote:

As for him not throwing up - that is great that he has decided to try to stop. Most bulimics will need help, though - and I can tell you, they sure can hide it well!... Be supportive, give him praise and tell him you understand how hard it is. He may backslide somtimes but reassure him that he CAN beat this.



Yeah, I've heard they can hide it well.....Keeping my eyes and ears open -- always -- and I will do whatever I possibly can to help H overcome this.

Quote:

Of course, I think the best thing would be for him to get professional help - I am offering these other ideas only because I think they are better than doing nothing, and I know how hard it can be to get him into treatment. (The woman who wrote those books has a clinic in Mill Valley, btw - is that anywhere near you?)



Again, Ellie, I am so grateful for all you have offered me. This is such an enormous help!

I would love for H to get professional help, but yeah, it doesn't look like he's willing.

Mill Valley -- I believe it's about 1 1/2 to 2 hours away from us. I'm not exactly sure, but I know I could find out (duh! )

Quote:

Act As If he is going to get better - I know when my D had her eating disorder, she really relied on me to be sure she could succeed - it scared her to death if I looked like I was giving up hope.



This brings me to last night. I wish I would have been able to login then.

It all started when H wanted to go play cards last night. I wasn't happy about it, but I didn't want to fight with H about it either. Plus, that would have been wrong of me seeing that we have a compromise -- BTW, H said he would stick to it this time......we shall see .

Before H left, he was giving me a hug then a kiss, and that's when I thought I could smell (yuck) on his breath. I slighty cringed -- well evidently it wasn't so slight to H -- and H asked what's wrong.

Me: "Did you?"
H: "Did I what?"
Me: "You know what I'm talking about....I can smell it on your breath."
H: "Smell what?...Oh - NO! I HAVEN'T! NOT AT ALL!"
Me: (silent)................
H: "JV, I swear on everything I haven't thrown up today....I did yesterday, but only a little bit, and I only did it that once."
Me: (still silent)..........
H: "What are you thinking about?"
Me: ........................
H: "Tell me what you want, JV. Get it out."

It was a very lengthy convo. I let it all out. I told H just how worried I am about him, about his ED, about the gambling, about his depression, everything. I was being as calm and as gentle as I could, H did get a bit defensive at times, but I think he understood what I was saying and why I was saying it.

When I brought up the gambling, H said, "You know.....it's still really hard for me to be here. I convinced myself for so long that I didn't want to be here, but I didn't feel like that was right. I don't know. Maybe I gamble so much so I don't have to be here as much. And it's not you. It's just me."

I told H that I have been struggling myself with the decision of whether or not to leave. I told him that he has wished me to leave him so many times, so sometimes I think I should just give him what he wants. He didn't say anything, but he put his head in his hands.

When I told H that I wanted for him to go see a psychiatrist and reminded him that his doctor told him the same over a year ago, he said, "I'm not as f***ed up as you think, and I can do this on my own.".....????

Towards the end, H asked if there was anything else I had to say. I said, "Yes, but I won't because I don't want to get you anymore irritated than you probably already are." H said just to tell him.

I told H that I hated to sound so "cliche", but "actions do speak louder than words", and I told him that I was a bit disappointed when he didn't get me anything for our anniversary even though I said it was alright. I wasn't alright with it at all. I told him I didn't expect nor did I want anything spectacular, but I would have appreciated something, ANYTHING, a small card or whatever, as long as it came from him. That he told me as he has many, many times over the past several years that he would always get me something for whatever the occasion, but never does. I told him it makes me think that he doesn't care. H said alright, he was sorry, and he would do this from now on.

I also told him (and yes, I TOLD H, I TALKED to him ; I never attacked, nagged, or condemned him -- it might sound like I did, but I honestly didn't) that I had a really nice time this weekend -- I really did, but it wasn't what I wanted to do at all. I told him that he had the chance to start "making things up" to me this past weekend but didn't because I changed everything for him. I told H, "I would like for you to take me out at least once a month. Whether it's to a theme park, the city, a movie, or wherever, but just not to go play cards." H said, "Alright. You're right. Let's do something this week. Will your parents watch the kids?" I told him that was unlikely for at least a couple of weeks since they just had them for 3 days. H said he would talk to his mom, but I reminded him that she's on vacation with her boyfriend, so H said he would talk to SIL, and if she couldn't, we would just take the kids with us and HE would handle them ALL ! (Now I do not expect that much !)

Just before H left, he said, "I need you to have faith in me, JV. If you don't, then I might as well not even bother trying. I can do this. Have faith in me please."

We hugged, kissed, then he left.

H wasn't gone long. He made a quick score and came right home. Some flirting and then !

Ok, I gotta go now. H just got back.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Trouble???? - 05/25/05 05:10 PM
BIG OOPS!

I was logged into the site earlier reading up on others' sitches, H walked in (he didn't have to work after all), so I just quickly shut the monitor off.

Time had passed and I guess H decided to get on the computer and saw the site (obviously I had forgotten by then that I didn't log off).

H called me into the room and asked what was all this about. I was at a loss for words, didn't know how to explain it since H said he read some of the stuff (he was reading another's thread), so I just told him that I joined an online support group and H said, "Great.....You see what I mean. I'm never going to live this s**t down because there are constant reminders. Now everytime I see you on the computer, I know what you're doing or I'll think about it all the time. And you're obviously not over any of it yourself.....Support group.....I wish someone on there would tell you to leave me."

Can anything else possibly go wrong please? I feel like my whole life would make one interesting Lifetime movie.



JV
Posted By: sage Re: Trouble???? - 05/25/05 06:04 PM
JV,

If your h is anything like mine (not saying he is..just IF), the idea of a support group is completely counter to their mindset. My h told me a while ago (not about DB but about a different newsgroup that I belonged to) that it felt like maybe I would listen to them before I listened to him.


I wouldn't overreact here...h is still reeling from his own guilt so he's reacting to that. If he brings it up again you can tell him that it's a "supportive" group -- people who have worked hard to save their m's. maybe that will help.

Sage
Posted By: dodgermf Re: Trouble???? - 05/25/05 11:13 PM
JV,

Bad beat, sorry. Back when my W was still living at the house, I used to have this site up on my laptop all the time, even when she was down at the other end of the couch. I didn't care but I'm sure this is just another speed bump you'll manage to navigate. Keep up with the strength...he's still there, you are ahead of many out here.

DMF
Posted By: ValerieA Re: Trouble???? - 05/26/05 02:52 AM
Sage and D -- thanks for your replies.

I'm just not feeling much like a DBer right now. It's been one long day. I've been feeling stressed all day, and almost as if I just want to give up and throw in the towel.

This morning started off bad to begin with. I was fixing my hair when H was getting out of the shower. H made a comment about buying more bananas and OJ and not purging anymore, so I felt this was the right time to tell H that I was going to buy him some vitamins for his heart. I noticed he rolled his eyes at me when he asked why. I told him I thought they would be good for him, that I thought this would be a good start to recovery. H started getting defensive then said, "I told you I could do this on my own! I don't need to take anything. Why don't you just leave me alone about it!" I told H since he has made it perfectly clear that he won't seek help that I'm going to do what I can to help him if he'll let me. H said, "I haven't done anything bad in a couple of days. Are you telling me you still think I need help?!" I said yes, and H asked, "So you still think I need to see a psychiatrist?" I said yes, and H screamed, "I DON'T NEED A PSYCHIATRIST, JV! I already know what my f***ing problems are, and I already know what I have to do to fix them! Don't you f***ing get it?! I don't need help! I just need you to not bring this s**t up to me and leave me alone about it!"

I sort of yelled back, "I didn't bring this up! You did! And you need to stop yelling at me right now! I am only trying to help you, H. All I said was that I was going to buy you some vitamins for your heart, and you blew up on me for that?!" H said, "No! I'm mad because you think I need to see a psychiatrist when I don't! If you want me to take some stupid vitamins, I will! But I'M NOT going to see a shrink, and that's the end of it!"

About an hour later was when H saw the website . After my earlier post today, H irritably said to me, "So do they tell you what to do?" I told him no, that this was a place for me to talk about my feelings and everyone here is very supportive. That was it - he didn't ask anything more.

My PMA left today -- I don't know. Maybe it needed a vacation of its own . I tried to bring it back, but....oh well. Of course, H took notice and kept apologizing for our fight in the morning. I told him I was alright and to forget about it. H said, "Well, lighten up please. Whenever you're quiet, it always makes me think you're mad at me, and I can't stand it."

Yes, H said he was sorry a few times today for getting angry. H said, "I'm sorry, alright? Look....I'll take whatever you want me to take. Just please don't tell me you think I need to see a psychiatrist again. Ok please? It's not going to help me. They'll tell me what I already know -- that I need to be more involved with the kids, I need a better job closer to home, I need to take my wife out once a week -- I already know all this. Or they'll tell me I need to go my separate way -- is that what you want to happen?.....I'm sorry, ok?" I just said ok.

Later I went to the grocery store, and when I came back, H was right there waiting to help me bring in the bags, but he was also dressed (he had on "lounging" clothes earlier -- he was putting up the kitchen light fixture today and doing other little things in the garage), so I knew he was going to ask if he could go play cards seeing that Wednesday is the big tournament night at one particular card room. I was right . That's makes the 2nd poker night this week.....we'll see .

I'm sorry. I've just had a bad day. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Trying...... - 05/26/05 06:30 PM
Journaling:

S5 stayed home from school today -- poor little guy woke up with a tummyache this morning. He's feeling a bit better now, and H just stepped out to get him some more Pedialyte.

My trip to the vitamin store and bookstore will have to wait another day unless H is willing to stay with S5.

Heard some complaints from H last night so I've got more work to do .

H got home early from the tournament; he was knocked out 60th or something. Anyway, a few moments after he got here, H said, "Aren't you happy to see me?" Remember -- I was in my own mood yesterday . I told H yes then he said, "Then why aren't you ever waiting to give me a hug when I walk in the door? You do when I'm gone for awhile, but I want one every time I walk in, alright?" I said alright and I was sorry. Then H blew up and said, "STOP TELLING ME YOU'RE SORRY! You have nothing to be sorry about! I'm the only one who needs to be sorry for anything. If you slap me across my face, then you can tell me you're sorry, but other than that, I don't want to hear it ever again!" I felt like saying, "Ok, sorry." , but.......yeah, I was a bit irritable yesterday.

Well, H decided to go to the gym, and when he came back, he was sweating profusely. We were talking for a bit while H was laying on the floor. He asked for me to help him up so he could go take a shower. I did then he grabbed me to hug me and wipe his sweat all over me. I know he was being playful; he's done this many times. So I playfully said, "EEWWW!", but H did not like that. He exploded again and said, "Forget you then! You act like I'm diseased or something!" I said, "H, I was only kidding!" H said while walking to the bedroom, "Whatever. If you just got done working out for an hour and were all sweaty, I'd be all over you. I'd think it was sexy, and it would turn me on, but I guess I don't turn you on."

I am so afraid to even look at him or say anything to him anymore because he just might find something else to come down on me for. In fact, I was really quiet again last night after his shower. When he asked me something, I kept my answers short with a yes or no or I don't know. H, of course, said, "What is wrong with YOU? Will you talk to me please? I hate it when you're so damn quiet all the time. It makes me think you're mad at me."

I think I am. Or maybe I'm just in some kind of funk right now.

JV
Posted By: cally Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/27/05 02:04 AM
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe the best thing would be to seperate for just awhile so he can sort himself out. Maybe that will be the push he needs to get some help.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Do you really think so?

Maybe that was the wrong thing for me to suggest. I guess I was just thinking he seems to mention A LOT that all his unhappiness is because he was pushed to have this family that he didn't want. He seems to place all the blame on you. To try and make you feel like utter crap. In my opinion maybe if you gave him exactly what he keeps saying he wants it may make him realize how valuable you are. I honestly feel you husband has got a lot of mental issues going on. You mentioned before he said he has panic attacks while he is away. Anxiety is very hard to deal with. His reaction to the physchiatrist is typical of someone suffering from depression or anxiety disorder. They are afraid the doc will tell them they are crazy. Which is most often times their worst fear.

Good for you that you talked to him the other day and got a lot out. I think he is also showing he does have a gambling problem. Wasn't it last week he told you if you let him go one more night that he would only go once this week. Hasn't it been 3 times he will go this week? Then he blows up last week and tells you that he wouldn't have lost it if you would have just let him go. what is the point of making a compromise if you can't or won't stick to it.

He also seems very insecure of himself. To react that way just because he was sweaty. That would have grossed a lot of people out. it just seems like he is this walking time bomb. I can understand why you feel you are on egg shells. Maybe you could just try getting out more and giving him his space to work out in his head whatever it is he has going on. But honestly JV I would keep gently asking him to see even a doctor and at least let just a normal doctor check him out or possibly get him on something. He seems like he is ready to explode by what you are saying. I had an aunt who said she thought about killing herself and she did this on x-mas eve and carried out the act and died. So always take the threat of this serious.
Do you think he would be willing to see a doctor. Also he needs to tell a doctor about the eating disorder. Maybe they could check him out for that to and make sure all is healthy or see what kind of damage has been done.

How has he been around the kid's?
Posted By: ValerieA Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/27/05 05:12 PM
Hi, cally.

Quote:

...I guess I was just thinking he seems to mention A LOT that all his unhappiness is because he was pushed to have this family that he didn't want. He seems to place all the blame on you. To try and make you feel like utter crap.



I couldn't agree with you more.......He does make me feel this way. Am I just so blinded by my love for him that I make myself deal with it out of fear of losing him? Fear of being a single mother with 3 boys? Fear of being alone? Many times I look in the mirror and think, "Who is going to want me? I'm used goods -- a woman with 3 children." I am afraid of the thought of having to start all over by myself.

I don't understand how H can be away (or even when he first gets home), calls me and tells me he's so sorry, that he doesn't want to lose me and is going to do whatever it takes to make me happy......and you know what? It makes me happy to hear it, really happy, and that's when I feel hopeful. But then after a few days, it's back to him seemingly acting like he does not want to be here. He wants to drink, or go play poker, or he's just out and about all day.

H wants what he wants when he wants it -- when is it my turn? When do I get to have what I want just once? According to H, I got 3 kids. That's what I wanted, so I should be happy.

I do feel like crap. He is so negative everyday unless something positive happened for him. If he got to play poker, if he had some drinks, if he wasn't bothered by anyone or anything. This is why I find myself keeping my distance from him when he actually is here, but then he complains that I'm too quiet. "No, H. I'm quiet because I'm afraid to get on your bad side -- again."

Quote:

In my opinion maybe if you gave him exactly what he keeps saying he wants it may make him realize how valuable you are.



At this point, I think if I did this, he might actually be relieved. He's said it so many times. After some time, he might have second thoughts, but I doubt it. I think H would really enjoy his "freedom" so to speak. My god -- I feel like I am such a burden on him. This is how he makes me feel. He can be so loving one minute, and then the next just miserable to be here in this house.

Quote:

Anxiety is very hard to deal with. His reaction to the physchiatrist is typical of someone suffering from depression or anxiety disorder. They are afraid the doc will tell them they are crazy. Which is most often times their worst fear.



Yes, this is exactly why he won't go. He's said this so many times.

Quote:

Good for you that you talked to him the other day and got a lot out. I think he is also showing he does have a gambling problem. Wasn't it last week he told you if you let him go one more night that he would only go once this week. Hasn't it been 3 times he will go this week? Then he blows up last week and tells you that he wouldn't have lost it if you would have just let him go. what is the point of making a compromise if you can't or won't stick to it.



Thanks. It may have not been good DBing, but it did feel good to get it out.

The compromise -- I had forgotten he said he would only go once this week, but even if I did remember, it probably would've caused another outburst from him. I'm probably ASSuming, but I don't think so. He HAS only gone twice this week though, so....

Quote:

He also seems very insecure of himself. To react that way just because he was sweaty. That would have grossed a lot of people out. it just seems like he is this walking time bomb. I can understand why you feel you are on egg shells. Maybe you could just try getting out more and giving him his space to work out in his head whatever it is he has going on.



I think he's insecure, too. Probably because he was overweight for so long, and I'm sure the bulimia is playing a part in it also.

I DO need to get out more -- a LOT more for my own mental health. I've actually got a couple things planned WITHOUT H over the next few days that he doesn't know about. I used a lot of mystery to get him to come back to me, but I stopped once he did. I've got to keep moving on for me and my boys. If H wants to be a part of it, nice. If not, oh well. What can I do? Maybe it'll wake him up again.

Quote:

But honestly JV I would keep gently asking him to see even a doctor and at least let just a normal doctor check him out or possibly get him on something. He seems like he is ready to explode by what you are saying.



If I do ask him again, he WILL explode. He wants me to leave him alone. He'll take the vitamins I want him to take but that's it -- nothing more. He won't even go to his doctor or any other doctor to get checked out for anything.

Quote:

I had an aunt who said she thought about killing herself and she did this on x-mas eve and carried out the act and died. So always take the threat of this serious.



I am sorry to hear this, cally.

I do take it seriously. I got another reply from the depression forum where the poster mentioned the Baker Act (?). I'm going to check into it for more info, but the poster said it's about getting someone who refuses to be helped into it even without their consent. I don't know how that would go over between us, but.....I don't know. I just want H to get better.

Quote:

How has he been around the kid's?



H has been really good with them. He's doing much more -- playing catch, going mini-golfing and/or bowling, to the park, etc. He doesn't take out any frustrations on them. H loves his boys and has said he wants to be a better father to them.

Thanks for stopping by, cally, and for your understanding. It does help so much.

-------------------------

Well as I noted earlier, I am going back to GAL for me and for the boys. H has been so downright negative (the depression's fault) that it is effecting me and my PMA.

MIL will be watching the baby later this afternoon so that I can take S9 and S5 to see "Madagascar". I also made plans with her to take the kids to the annual festival downtown on Monday. I haven't told H of my plans, and I don't intend to either. If he asks, I will tell him he is welcome to join us and I will leave it at that.

Small hopes but NO EXPECTATIONS.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: dodgermf Re: H has severe depression. What to do? - 05/27/05 05:33 PM
Quote:

I am afraid of the thought of having to start all over by myself.


JV,

I have this thought every day, even though I'm at the point now where I don't think we could ever get back together. In my mind I think about her coming back and I can't see how we could get back anything we had, like there's been too much damage done. It's not really a pride thing, it's just that the car has been hit so many times, the body shop can't fix it, it has to be totalled.

Getting back to your deal, I may not post here too often but I read your thread diligently (by the way, you win the "longest posts" prize ) and I hope I'm not out of line here but sometimes I get scared reading these. You know him, none of us out here in cyberspace do. However, please be careful. You alone with 3 boys and trying to figure it out (life) is a hell of a lot better that being in any kind of danger (or worse).

I'll keep watching...

DMF OUT

P.S. The Giants still suck!!
Posted By: ValerieA I'm at the end of the rope..... - 05/27/05 11:52 PM
I am barely hanging on right now. I feel like I could very easily let go, too easily.

H is in one foul mood right now. He's depressed and on his first drink of the night.

I was playing on the computer, H was listening to his boss on his cell, sat next to me and said, "You really should leave me......Do you hear me? This is the last time I'm telling you. You should just leave me."

My eyes filled up with tears, but I held them there and said, "Is that what you really want? Do you really want me to leave you?" H said, "No, I'm just.....", and he got up and went outside with (bf) without finishing his sentence.

I'm so tired of this. I'm really tired and losing more and more hope each minute.

JV
Posted By: dodgermf Re: I'm at the end of the rope..... - 05/28/05 12:04 AM
JV,

I know, I know. During Dec-Feb when I was at bottom, people would ask me how I was doing and I couldn't bring myself to say "Day to Day". I would say "Hour to Hour" because that was simply the truth.

You're feeling the same way right now and you've got to break the day down into small chunks and get through each of those chunks. Just remember always (go get in front of the mirror if you have to) that you're a better person and because of that, you'll get through this. Also, remember what I said in my last post, BE CAREFUL!! If you even get a small vibe that something ain't right, get you and the kids the hell out of there.

I'm here to listen...DMF
Posted By: ValerieA Re: I'm at the end of the rope..... - 05/28/05 01:13 AM
Thank you, D. I am being careful.

S9 and S5 are at MIL's for the night and the baby is in bed already.

H came back inside not too long after going outside. When he walked back in, he asked where the baby was then went into our room.

He took a shower (I heard the water running) and after some time had passed, he hadn't come out yet. So I went into the room just to be sure everything was ok, and H was laying on the bed.

From the time he went outside to the time I went into the room, I'd say it was about an hour or so later. I had been thinking and thinking and thinking about what I should do. Should I continue to keep quiet and give him more time? Or should I just give H what he wants?

I sat on the edge of the bed; H was laying there with his eyes closed. I sat there in silence for a few moments then finally said, "H?"....."H?".....He opened his eyes and asked where the kids were again, and I told him again. Then I said, "H, if you really want me to leave you, I will." H said with his eyes closed, "I just think you'd be better off without me." (I wanted to validate him or say "I don't think that", but he doesn't want to hear that kind of stuff -- he told me this.) It was quiet again for a few more moments, I felt he wasn't going to say anything else, so I said again, "If you really want me to leave you, I will." Then I got up and started walking out of the room and H said, "Yeah, go ahead and walk away. Thank you." I turned back around and said, "No. I don't want to walk away. Why do you think I'm still here? After all this time?....I think YOU want to be the one to walk away, but you just don't know how." H didn't say anything again, so I left the room. He's still in there.

If he really wants out, I'll let him go. If he really wants me to go, I will. I just don't have anymore fight left in me.

How can I feel this way, like I'm ready to give up, while he's so sick? I feel like I'm tired of everything yet I worry about actually leaving while he's like this.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: dodgermf Re: I'm at the end of the rope..... - 05/28/05 02:59 AM
Do what you have to do JV, for you and your kids. Just do me a favor and post something here, like twice a day please...you hear me?

Well, I'm off to the gym to join all the other losers who have no plans on a Friday night. I'll check in when I get home later.

DMF
Posted By: sage Re: I'm at the end of the rope..... - 05/28/05 02:08 PM
JV,

Have you asked him why he thinks you should leave? It seems as though h wants to tell you something specific...or maybe I'm just reading into your posts.

Sage
Posted By: ValerieA Re: I'm at the end of the rope..... - 05/28/05 06:06 PM
Hi, Sage. Thanks for dropping in.

I have asked H before why he feels this way, and his answer is always he thinks I could do better. I've told him a number of times that I don't see anything wrong with him or my life, that I have everything I've ever wanted -- a family, a home, etc, and most of all him. In the past, we used to often tell each other we believed we were soulmates, that we felt we were made for each other, that we couldn't imagine our lives without one another.

I always feel like there IS something else he wants to tell me when he gets this way, but I don't push for it.

Am I ASSuming there is something else? Or is it just the guilt? Does he think I should leave him because he's still keeping something from me? Could he still be talking to OW? OR could he still think about OW? Or does he find himself tempted to "stray" again? Or does he just not love me like he used to and he's afraid to say so?........I know, I know. Too many thoughts.

------------------------------

Well, H ended up passing out around 6 or 7pm last night. At about 11pm, I woke him up to see if he would move his car or I would do it for him; it was parked halfway in the garage, and I wanted to shut it. H got up and said he would move it.

Before he did, H said he was hungry and felt like having a shrimp burrito from a locally-owned mexican restaurant open 24 hours. He asked if I wanted anything, and I said no thanks.

When he got back, H sat down and said, "I'm sorry for being such an a**hole earlier. It's just that I was talking to (boss) before I got here, and I was fed up with his BS so I felt like drinking. I bought a couple of Mike's Hard Lemonades and downed those before I got home, then I bought that tall can you saw me drink. I'm sorry. I just felt like drinking." I said, "If you want have a few drinks, I'm fine with that, but I would prefer you do it here instead of while you're on the road." H said, "You're right. That was stupid of me. I'm sorry." That was basically all that was said.

We watched a PayPerView movie, and after H finished eating, he laid his head on me. He rubbed my arms and legs a few times. I think I kind of patted his back once. I just didn't have much affection in me last night. At one point, H laid across the couch and asked me to lay with him. I did and we spooned. He kept rubbing his feet against mine. I only rubbed his arm a couple of times. Sorry, I just wasn't feeling it.

Later when we went to bed, H was being playful, but it was getting on my nerves although I didn't show it to him. I acted playful in return, we laughed a few times, then went to sleep. Actually I went to sleep first. I think H wanted more than playing, but it wasn't going to happen -- not for me.

This morning, H said he wanted to change in the boys' loose change. They've got about $400 in their coin jar. H said he's going to put in their savings. Before anyone has concerns, he WILL do this, ok?

I was talking on the phone with MIL. While she's talking to me and I'm listening, H comes up and starts asking me questions at the same time. I put my hand up to gesture "wait a sec" because I was trying to hear MIL, but he kept pushing, and I finally said, "Can you please wait til I'm off the phone?! I can't listen to 2 people at once!" H stormed off saying, "Don't talk to me like that!"

After that, H was getting ready to leave to pick up (bf) to ride with him while cashing in the boys' change. As he was leaving, H said "ILY" and I said alright.

He just called to tell me that after he cashes in, he's going to get a fuse replaced in his car for the antenna. He said it's stuck or something. He said he wanted to let me know so I'm not wondering why he's taking longer than he should. Now H is ASSuming . I really don't care if he's gone all day. It wouldn't be anything new.

I'm tempted to ask H again if he still thinks I should leave him.....I just want a break from all of this for more than a couple of days at a time.

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: I'm at the end of the rope..... - 05/29/05 12:49 AM
Journaling:

H decided to go to Oregon and help out a business acquaintance with some door to door sales. He's been talking about this for the past couple of weeks but was undecided. H is going to be paid $150 per sale. He said he wants to make at least $500 over the next 2 days, and he'll be back by Tuesday night at the latest. H said if he didn't go then he'd be tempted to go play cards every night. Can't argue with that .

H said when he gets back, he'll have another week and a half or so off before he has to go back to work. He hasn't said where the next show is yet. H said he'll be "spending all that time with the boys".......Oh well.

H was getting ready to leave and came to me for a hug. An empty one. I said, "You call that a hug?" H said, "No. I'm sorry. I was just..." but then he gave me another one that was a little nicer, but I don't know. It felt "forced" since I said something about the first one. H also gave me a kiss on the forehead.

As he was leaving, H was talking to me about (bf) going with him to Oregon.....Great -- H will be out for 2 nights drinking since (bf) loves going to bars and picking up on women . I should be able to get through this though.

H was also telling me a little about his convo with one of our neighbors yesterday when H went outside to drink. He said XXX irritated him and (bf) about H's car (he bought an older Jaguar the other day) and about (bf)'s Harley. H said they just shrugged it off, but what really bothered him was when H mentioned to XXX that he would be gone for a couple of days to Oregon. H said XXX said, "You're gone all the time, man! I'm surprised your wife hasn't divorced you yet!" H didn't say what his reply was if he had one at all.

Well anyway, tomorrow I'm probably going to visit my sister who lives about an hour away from us. Then on Monday, MIL and I are taking the kids to the festival downtown. Should be a fun, relaxing, and quiet couple of days without H....???

I won't be calling him either. I'll leave that to H although I don't expect him to.

I hope everyone's enjoying their weekend!

Thanks for listening.

JV
Posted By: ValerieA A good day.... - 05/30/05 01:51 AM
Journaling:

Today was probably one of the best days I've had in awhile . No mood swings, no tension, no nothing to face. Just a really nice day .

The boys and I went to my sister's house for the day. We had lots of fun! We had a barbecue, went swimming, the kids ran around with their cousins, and the baby got lots of attention from everyone there which meant Mommy's arms and hip were free all day ! I live for such days !

H called last night around 10:30pm or so. He was driving while (bf) was sleeping. H did most of the chatting with me listening. He basically just wanted to say "hi" and said he would either call me later last night or wait until today. Before we said "bye", H said "ILY". I told him the same.

He didn't call back last night -- I wasn't expecting him to anyway. He did call about an hour and a half ago though. It's been a long day for him. H, (bf), and another guy have been going door to door all day and haven't done too well (duh! It's a holiday weekend ! That's why no one's home.). H had sold 2 and (bf) sold 1. He's feeling discouraged, but he wants to sell at least 3 more deals. H said he's waiving the activation fee of $50 to get people to sign up, therefore he's only making $100 per deal. AND these people have to get approved and installed before he can get paid for them. I hope it all works out for H otherwise he'll be REALLY p*ssed about having gone all that way for nothing .

H said he was feeling like he was "out of it". Like he couldn't function. I asked if he had eaten anything (many times he'll go all day without eating especially when he's working). He said yes. He and (bf) ate some chinese food for lunch, and H immediately threw in, "I kept it all in, too, in case you're wondering. I told you I'm not doing that anymore." I said, "Ok...I wasn't thinking about that, but I'm glad anyway. That's good." Then H said, ".....I don't know.....Maybe I AM depressed." I asked, "About?" H said, "About everything. I want to make at least $500 out here before I leave....Maybe I'll just come home tonight. I don't know." I said, "Well, I'm sure not getting as many sales as you'd like is playing a part in it." H said, "Yeah, definitely......Well, it's still early, so I'm heading back out. I'll call you later. Tell the boys hi for me and tell them I love them." I said I would then we said goodbye.

So...tomorrow should be another great day filled with lots of FUN ! We're going to the annual festival. The kids love playing games and going on the rides ! Mmmmm....I can already smell all the yummy food ! Too bad H will be missing out.

Thanks for listening. Enjoy the holiday !

JV
Posted By: ValerieA Re: A good day.... - 05/30/05 02:57 AM
I forgot something ! I wanted to add this to my previous post.

It's a quote I came across the other day. I don't know who wrote/said it, but it stuck in my head.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Posted By: Scottisheart Re: A good day.... - 05/30/05 02:16 PM
Hello JV. I've just finished a reply to you on my thread

I have to say that I LOVE this quote. It definitely works with DB/DR.

As for your thread I wanted to say that I'm sorry you are going through this. It's so incredibly hard especially when you have kids and a baby to boot! Take very good care of yourself and watch for signs of postpartum depression. I've only come to the realization that I was more than likely suffering from it after S2. So many things to juggle!!!

I hope everything sorts itself - you're working hard and it shows. Also, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but BE CAREFUL. You'll be in my thoughts.

Cheers, Scottisheart
Posted By: SherryL Re: A good day.... - 05/30/05 08:27 PM
Hi JV,

I have been reading your posts and keeping up but not replying.

I honestly don't know what else to add. You are in my thoughts and prayers, though. You are fighting such a hard fight here with your H. Keep being strong.

Sherry
Posted By: cally Re: A good day.... - 05/31/05 02:16 PM
JV......I am glad you got out there and had fun!! You deserve it.

I would do just as you said and NOT call him while he's gone. I would just keep giving him space. If he asks because he notices you asre being distant then tell him your tired of this roller coaster ride. Let him know your giving him space to sort out whatever he needs to sort out in his head. Maybe you could tell him to get back to you when he finally knows what he wants without any doubt what so ever??

I worry for you because he is so out there mentally right now. You are trying to help him and be strong in dealing with him so out there. But this also has to be taking a toll on you. I know he blames you a lot which hurts you and makes you feel like crap. I think he is just placing blame and lashing out because he has mental issues going on. If he is able to place blame then he thinks he has the answers to his probelsm instead of looking where the real probelsm lie which is right within himself. But that would be to scary for him because then he would have to deal with his problems and face then instead of the blame game.

If he says his time back home will be spent with the boys tell him great! Just try to distance yourself as much as possible. Maybe you could even arrange for you to take a weekend alone with just yourself.

Posted By: ValerieA Re: A good day.... - 05/31/05 04:25 PM
Hello, everyone.

Scottisheart, Sherry, and cally -- Thank you for dropping in. I'm deeply grateful and appreciative for your thoughts and concerns. I know there's not too many here who feel that they know what to say about this sitch I'm in, but just the fact that people stop by to show their care and concern means the world to me. Thank you again.

Quote:

JV......I am glad you got out there and had fun!! You deserve it.



Me too!!! I REALLY needed it! Yesterday the boys, MIL, and I went to the annual festival, and we had a BLAST ! The boys really had a great time and that makes me so happy !

Quote:

I would do just as you said and NOT call him while he's gone. I would just keep giving him space. If he asks because he notices you asre being distant then tell him your tired of this roller coaster ride. Let him know your giving him space to sort out whatever he needs to sort out in his head.



I agree. I grabbed my copy of DR last night and read the section "Dealing with a Depressed Spouse". I need to stop doing what I've been doing. I need to stop trying to talk H into getting better and just GAL of my own. I need to praise H when he does positive things (when he's in a good mood), and I can't make any references as to H being "depressed". Instead I should use "moody" or "down in the dumps". And yes, if he were to ask "why aren't you on me about this anymore?", it would be ok for me to tell him that I've decided to stop pushing him to change and/or get better. So I will do this from now on and we'll see how it all goes.

Quote:

Maybe you could tell him to get back to you when he finally knows what he wants without any doubt what so ever??



Hmmm.....I'm really not sure about that. H could possibly perceive this as me pressuring him again for a decision.

While reading the depression section last night, it hit a lot of notes with me. I'm taking a stab here -- basically when H is "moody", and he brings up wishing that I would leave him, it's most likely because, yes, he IS depressed, and when he's like this, he is thinking of only the bad things that have gone on in his life. When H thinks of the stuff he considers to be bad and I was involved with it somehow, this is where the blaming comes in. When playing the blame game, he can't see how he played a role in it, too. IOW, H's way of thinking has become very distorted.

So like I wrote above, I have to back off and leave him alone when he's moody, and when he's not, praise him for the good thing(s) he may have done on that day.

Quote:

You are trying to help him and be strong in dealing with him so out there. But this also has to be taking a toll on you.



Yes it sure has. This is why it's so important for me to get back to GAL. When H is home, many times I find myself waiting to hear, "JV, why don't you go out and do something for yourself and I'll watch the boys." But it doesn't happen -- it used to several years back, but when H took on this last job, it stopped because he's never here. When he is here, he's still so busy running around doing things.

Quote:

If he says his time back home will be spent with the boys tell him great! Just try to distance yourself as much as possible. Maybe you could even arrange for you to take a weekend alone with just yourself.



A weekend alone by MYSELF??!! Is that even possible??!! I think the closest I'll ever be to that is in my dreams !

I'm only kidding ! Sometimes my parents will take the boys for the weekend even with H away on business. It doesn't happen too often, but when it does, I "veg" out for half a day (hey! I deserve it since I'm running around like crazy everyday with 3 boys ), and I go do things I enjoy the rest of the time. Mostly shopping or even just window-shopping. Very relaxing for me.

-------------------------

Well, H should be back some time today.

Like I said, the boys, MIL, and I had a fun time at the festival. After that, we went back to MIL's place for a barbecue (yum! ). SIL and H's grandparents were there also.

We got home around 6pm, and the phone rang right when we walked in. It was H, and he was "moody". He only made 1 sale for the day .

We chatted for a bit then H said, "(long pause).....I just want everything to be right." I said in a matter-of-fact tone, "So do I." Kind of a 180 (???) on my part seeing how I would usually tell H I was sorry he was feeling down again. Well I think he was stunned by this (maybe, maybe not). After that he said, "Why does your voice sound weird?" I said, "Weird?" H said this like he was worried. About what? I don't know. Maybe my matter-of-fact tone had him think that I'm getting tired of all that's going on ( )?

Anyhow, the baby started fussing, so I told H I had to go. H said "ILY", and I said "ILY, too" with that same matter-of-fact tone.

I'd like to take the boys to the zoo this weekend. We haven't gone in a few years, and I know they use to really enjoy this. I'm going to see if my parents will watch the baby (it would be too long of a day for him to be out there especially in the heat), and I'll tell H he's welcome to join us and again leave it at that.

Oh! BTW, when I told H that we went to Fiesta Days (the festival), he said, "You did?... Is it still going to be there?" I told him yesterday was the last day for it. Then H said, "Really?....We'll have to go next year." That sounds like a positive to me.

Thanks for listening.

JV

PS -- Scottisheart, if you're reading this, I read your post to my reply on your thread, and I will respond later tonight, ok? It's almost time for S5 to get out of kindergarten.

I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination.
Posted By: ValerieA Re: A good day.... - 05/31/05 08:12 PM
Quick post:

H called about an hour ago and said he was getting ready to leave Oregon, so he should be home around 10pm or so.

H said he was going to take the boys to visit his grandmother tomorrow. H said MIL has been calling him and leaving messages (which have irritated him) telling him to do so since his grandmother has been "griping ( )" about not seeing the kids enough.

Anyhow, H asked, "If we go, are you going to go, too?" I told H if he wanted me to, I would. Then he said ok.

I think this is another small plus seeing that H didn't feel like doing the "family thing" (being together as a family) back during Easter. Hmmm.....maybe, maybe not.

Gotta go get S9 now.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Posted By: Scottisheart Re: A good day.... - 06/01/05 03:06 PM
Hi JV. I've been thinking about you today and wondering how things are going since your H came home. When you have a chance please let us know.

Take care!

Cheers, Scottisheart
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