Divorcebusting.com
I should have started a thread sooner, it snuck up on me and I got locked out. So, here's the link to my last thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=764597&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

As always, my fingers are crossed that will work!

Just a tad bit of updating, though, I am beginning to let myself believe OW is fading into the sunset. Last night when I got home, H was still giving me warm hugs, and he initiated ML for the 3rd night in a row ; he seems so happy and excited now when he does that, I have no doubt that he's interested, it's not just going thru the motions to make me happy, which at one time I worried about.

this morning, he gave me more nice warm hugs, brought me coffee, and when I told him I loved being with him, he said "that's a very good thing"; I asked why, and he said "because it looks like you're stuck with me"...he also said his weekend stomach upsets are starting to get better, he thinks because "getting this "thing" settled helped".

I take all of these as indicators that yes, it finally is over, and is almost if not totally "history". Soon, I expect to be able to exhale!
#1?
Hi Deb! Thank you for your kind words! I'm glad that I helped you through that horrible period. As I said back then, I remembered how torn up and raw I felt in the beginning, and no "old timers" would post to my thread..not saying that I didn't make some GREAT newbie friends that I went through my ordeal with, (and still keep in touch with today)...I was so desperate to hear anything from someone who had been through it with success.. you sounded so much like me and your sitch was SO similar...well...we laughed about how our H's could have been long lost twins..lol.. I rarely post any more, but I could really "feel your pain"..lol. I'm glad my instinct to "jump back in" was correct.

As for my guys, they are doing great. My little guy is pretty much over his mono, but still has some "tired" days. His Ped said it could affect him for up to 8 months!

The hurricanes have been a nightmare. We have to replace our roof, and lost our privacy fence, and ended up with someones patio furniture in our pool (lol!..freebies ) and were without power after Frances for 5 horrid days (after the "rainy gray" passed, it was back to that good ole Florida 90 degree humid weather) and we were miserable. Thank God we had the pool so we could flush toilets!! lol. Unfortunately, we are right in the path for Jeanne. So..we repacked our hurricane kit tonight and we are ready for round 4. Gotta love it..lol. Actually, I can honestly say that when the lights went out, we actually spent some really fun hours playing cards, and talking. But when the winds picked up to over 70mph and the roof started comming off, it got pretty hairy.. H was very much in control. I felt safe. Thank you for thinking of me.

Quote:

"because it looks like you're stuck with me"...




my H said this very same quote a lot too. Isn't it nice to hear? In my opinion, this is where your hard work starts. You MUST forgive him for OW. Meaning, it's ok to discuss it if he brings it up and opens up the floor for questions. My h did..said "ask any thing you want..we'll sit here all night if we have to." And I did. I asked every single question I could think of..and at that point (maybe a month from where you are now) I DID want to know all the gory details...NOT what the may have DONE to or with each other (I'm not THAT much of a glutton for punishment) ...but what it was ABOUT it, that was better, different, than what we had had. (I hope that makes sense). And then I dropped it. He has mentioned it again, and still does to this day. He will say "I will NEVER do that to you again. What a mess I caused". But I don't talk about HER anymore ever. I have to say, the first anniverisary of the "bomb" after we were doing ok, I had a bad week...too many memories popping up. But..I just had to tell myself to suck it up, and thinking about HER, only made her win..because I was STILL allowing her to screw up my marriage.

I am so proud of you! Enjoy your success. Trust me, at some point you will stop analyzing every little move he makes (looking for baby steps) and your life will lose that "surreal" feeling. (FINALLY!!) I'll keep checking on you.

Take Care you Red Hot Momma!!!

Quote:

I am so anxious no matter how hard I try. I havent heard much at all today from H via email, and what I did get was very matter of fact and businesslike. I am always terrified it means he & OW are firing up again.



Quote:

Has anyone else who managed to rebuild their marriage after an affair experienced this cycle of anger -- grief--anger--grief...(the WAH's, that is) over and over? HOW do you handle this?????




I dont know, but it seems like the crux of your problem these days. He doesnt want you to revert into someone who's constantly checking up on him and worrying that he's straying - but you scare me when you post about doing just that. It might be time for some professional help to get past the remains of the A. It's not something to be taken lightly. It can come back to hit you again years later if not dealt with. This is one of the key things that killed my M.

Hang in there.
Aha! I found you. Don't scare me like that again.

Everything sounds great. I am so happy for you. And I think that you are stuck with him! Yeah!

Dawn
Hi Punkinsmom! I'm glad you guys are making it through the storms ok, hope Jeanne misses you! hurricanes sound much more frightening to me than tornados.

I hate to think where things might be for us if you hadnt taken me by the hand--and met me with a 2x4 a time or 2! LOL! I needed guidance so badly, and you and Bill and Dawn came through like angels!

I know the hard stuff starts now. I feel like I've forgiven him, certainly not forgotten but forgiven, because of all the soul-searching I've done to understand how we got to the point of the A....seeing it as not all one sided helps to get to the point of forgiveness, I think.

It seems to be getting easier as a few more weeks go by, thank heavens. The more he's home on Saturdays, etc., the easier it gets, and the more confident I feel that it truely is over. I am not asking much about it any more, and he's not talking about it as much. but when the issue does come up, it's not nearly as emotionally charged, just pretty matter of fact. I feel H detaching from her more and more emotionally.

I must keep my focus on building up the "good stuff", so we can have such a great M and life together that there's no worry about an A. I need to look into some of the other materials here, I think.

Any way, I am eternally grateful for your insight in those dark, frantic, right-after-the-bomb days.
Hi Bill, it's good to hear from you, I kind of lost you, I gotta get over and catch up on your sitch.

I know you are so right about being able to forgive, let go and move on being a "make it or break" thing....I think I made quite a bit of progress even since last week in this regard, but if I feel like I'm getting "stuck" as far as being able to do that, I will get some help.

I've not been nearly as anxious today about him being in contact with her...partly because of my intuition telling me it's safe to breathe again, that it is over. BUT, I'm sure there will be some anxious times still....when he does have to work on a Saturday, I'm sure I will struggle mightily. but he is slowly getting to the point of offering me reassurance, and I'm slowly letting myself accept what he offers, so that is "baby stepping" in the right direction, I believe.
Hey Dawn! I'm glad you didn't lose me!!!!!! I still dont' know what I'd do with out you!!!!!!

I wish we all lived closer, I'd throw a party just for the fun of it! guess I'm in more of a celebrating mood these days.
Thought I'd update the weekend, some kind of neat things happened. H is much nicer and more attentive than I think he ever has been.

Friday afternoon, he initiated ML, and again Saturday morning....he's also hornier than he has been in a long time, pretty amazing for an "old guy" of 49 ; We were talking about all we've learned from our recent experiences, and H commented that "I guess maybe you have to be married 25 years to really fall in love"...He said he had prayed to be able to discern the truth, and that eventually it had become clearer and clearer to him. Said one of OW's famous quotes is "you better get a fire-proof suit if you want to be with me, because I'm bound for Hell". Interesting. H said he knew from the type of personality disorder she has that he would have to let her be the one to end it, or she would never leave him alone, and that's why it took so long ( I know there was a big emotional attachment on his part as well). Friday night S was at a friends, and we watched tv for a while; H held my hand, squeezed it, and fiddled with my wedding ring, smiled at me, and was just so sweet. Topic of OW came up on Saturday, and H just seemed so emotionally detached from her, I could hear it in his voice and see it in his eyes. He said his stomach is not as upset anymore, and he thinks "getting this thing settled" is a big part of that. I asked him if he was feeling better emotionally and he said "yes, I am" and actually sounded pretty happy. I asked him if she still called him at lunch, and he said "no"; I asked if she still emails, and he said "no" that he hadnt heard from her at all. I believed him because he seemed so unemotional about it, if that makes sense.

We went to my brothers for my 50th (yikes!) bday party on Saturday afternoon, stayed all night there....it was fun, only 1 old bf came, H made a comment about him being a "blow hard"....I just validated , said he could be sometimes....but H seemed to have fun. My parents were there, my mom took me aside and told me H "seems so much happier!" and was emphatic that she saw a big difference in him. She also said my new hairdo made me look 15 years younger (now, of course, this is my mother speaking) but that was good to hear the day I turned 1/2 century old! My brother even commented that he really liked my hair, and he's a harder sell than my mom.

Sunday afternoon at home, I was getting something out from under the kitchen sink, and H patted my behind, real timidly. way back when, "Old Deb" probably would have gotten aggravated at him; new Deb turned around, put her arms around him, and enjoyed a great big smooch. It's so much a matter of how you look at things, I've come to realize. Later, I was dusting a lampshade in the living room, and he came up behind me and kissed the back of my neck! I love this stuff! and it's so amazing to me, he never ever did stuff like this before. I hope I can figure out how to get him to do MORE of it (goal setting project here?)

Today, I had to go to a meeting in H's little home town...now this is weird....but some guys whistled at me! it's been a long time since that happened. I thought at first it was my brother in-law, but when I glanced that way, it was actually 2 guys I never saw before.

I also saw OW at work today, she was coming through a doorway in a hall going one way as I was going the other. I just looked at her and kept walking....she said "excuse me"...at least we both fit through the door frame at the same time! I have to say, the woman doesnt look real well to me...she looks like she's been spending a lot of time crying. I still don't feel any sympathy. Don't feel a lot of anger, more like pity and disgust, but not even much of that, it's kind of like she's not worth the effort of any strong feelings. weird.
Hey Red Hot-

So glad to hear the JOY in your post! I just know that it is shining through and your H sees it! I am happy....and so jealous of all the touching and ILYs. I'll try to keep plugging away and hope that they will come. If I get discouraged I will simply think of you.

Thank you so much for mentioning me in such a nice way in your post. It really made my day. (You'd think my LL was WOA!)

As for the party....I'd be there with bells on!

Dawn

Oh, and BTW happy birthday and congrats on the new do. Keep doing those kind of things for yourself.
Ah, Dawn, bless your heart, you've been one of the folks who kept me going when things looked so very very bleak! I honestly don't know where I'd be without you!
Thanks so much!
I havent asked you for a while how things are going in your sitch....what's up there? I was always so impressed with how you handled things and were able to turn them around so quickly (and, I have to say, inspired by your fiestyness, throwing the lock at your H....rofl!!!still!!!!) Sometimes is seems to take forever and a day for these guys to come around, but YOU are great at getting the results we are all wanting. I know your H will be eating out of your hand before long!
Today was staff meeting at work. Those are still tough for me, seeing OW even in the same room w/H is tough. not as overwhelming as it used to be, though. So I guess that's progress. I don't speak to her, but she just has this "huffy" look/attitude about her.

One thing I wanted to post before I forget...this probably seems small to everyone else, but I felt like it was a significant indicator of H's progress in letting her go. Bob Seger has this song...don't even know what the title is, but the main theme is reflected in the words "living my life without you babe, is the hardest thing I'll ever do"....H used to always change to something else when that came, ALWAYS....said he didnt like that song. In the car this weekend, he CHOSE the CD with that on it; when the song came on, he didn't change it, he listened! like I said, it probably doesnt mean a thing to anybody else, but it feels huge to me, because I really see it as an indicator of where his minds at.

I stuck a card in his lunch today, got an email from him saying thanks, it was nice....I could use some input on things that have worked for others in rebuilding a great marriage after an affair.

Lots and lots of flattery... My H's self-esteem was shot. (I'm sure that's how xow creeped in.) So I found all kinds of ways to build him up. Told him how hot he was, how sweet he was, how great he was with me...how much I loved him... Just constantly. (He responds well to WOA.) I make sure to notice--and especially tell him whenevery he does anything nice for me. Just trying to make him feel appreciated. It seems to have worked well. Some of it has finally sunk in...took a few months...but he's relaxed a whole lot more now.

I also found if I told him how great he was at something I wanted him to do more of--say, how he's sooo sweet and helps to clean up all of the time, even when he didn't--it increased that behaviour.

And spend some fun, light-hearted time together! We go out and play putt-putt. And now we're trying tennis. Trying new things helps, too...I read somewhere that's a great intimacy builder.

Hope this helps!
sometimes it's the littlest things you notice that mean the most. That's great.

I dont have any advice on the post A marriage - mebe there's more info here on the site as well?
yes, thanks Nevanna, this helps a lot...any and all ideas! I wrote in the card I stuck in his lunch how my heart melted when he held my hand and kissed the back of my neck last weekend, so maybe I'll see more of that! I also told him in the email I sent that I was looking forward to getting to see him tonight, and give him a hug and kiss....so maybe i'm on the right track. Hopefully. He does seem to respond well though. (Now, at least!)
I retract my last statement - I can give some advice
1 - YOU have to be careful to not start crazymaking over every little thing that might be suspicious
2 - love and affirmation to boost his confidence sound great

here, take my 2x4 in case you need it. You're doing great.
Thanks Bill, you know how I am about grasping at straws, but I still think it was significant. I will get by to visit you at your place tomorrow, I promise. I started catching up yesterday, and then got sidetracked and havent gotten back!
Deb,

I read about your 50th birthday and just today realized, duh, I never wished Deb a happy birthday.
so, HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEB

I am really proud of how you are doing and really glad that things have finally, it seems, turned the corner for you two.

Keep me in your prayers as I am still trying to db while I see a far off light at the end of a monstrously long tunnel.

take care,

Pam
Hi Deb - I'm living off your progress, so glad things are moving along.
Quote:

H used to always change to something else when that came, ALWAYS....said he didnt like that song. In the car this weekend, he CHOSE the CD with that on it; when the song came on, he didn't change it, he listened! like I said, it probably doesnt mean a thing to anybody else, but it feels huge to me, because I really see it as an indicator of where his minds at.



Ditto. We too used to have songs that would get turned over quickly, but NG seems to be oblivious now.

One thing I'm still amazed at is how quickly NG wants to FORGET everything. He seems happiest when I can pretend none of this ever happened either...

You doing well, Deb. So proud of you. Slowly
Quote:

One thing I'm still amazed at is how quickly NG wants to FORGET everything. He seems happiest when I can pretend none of this ever happened either...




Temporary coping mechanism--he can't handle the enormity of what happened, most especially because he did it.

My H does the same thing a lot. Then he'll crack at the oddest moments. (They all crack, eventually...) I've decided to allow myself to feel things--not necessarily let them run my life--and it's done wonders in helping me let go.

Just my $.02.
Interesting observation here, Slowly and Nevanna. H seems to be really wanting to forget this ever happened as well. I'm kind of surprised how quickly he seems to be getting over it, I guess that's good, except that I still have nagging fears that it will flare back up.

You commented that you let yourself feel things, Nevanna. What do you mean by that? (I'm having a "duh" day!)
I think the wanting to forget is a common theme. My H also told me he just wanted to forget the ONS and the whole separation ever happened. I wish I could just stuff it in some little compartment in my mind and forget all about it but unfortunately I'm not wired like that. Maybe its a guy thing?
Well, if you think about it, they're just doing what we were all doing a few months ago--namely, trying to function. The "act as if." I used to "try not to think about it" just to get through the day. I bet that's exactly what these guys are doing. The whole thing, all at once, is too much to deal with. I know my H hurt himself as much, if not more, than he did me.

IMHO, they're going through the same stages...just a little delayed. Sooner or later, they *will* have to deal with it in order to heal. I guess they could be dealing with it differently, since they're guys, but I'm not convinced. (And we have the BB here for support! What do they have?)

Which is what I mean by "letting myself feel." I'm tired of boxing up my emotions. I have to go through them to get rid of them, so that's what I'm doing. I'm not saying that I let them run my life! Just saying I let myself feel them. I've had some very good, heatlhy cries the last month or so...the kind where I'm actually releasing all that hurt, not just feeling stuck in it. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I came to the realization that it's going to be a long process. I read somewhere it takes about two years for the worst of the feelings to fade. When I began to think of it that way, I quit putting so much pressure on myself to "feel okay." If I don't feel okay, that's fine to. But I'm not "punishing" H for it--I just tell him I'm feelng a little insecure, and ask for a hug and some reassurance.

And once I quit "trying to feel okay"--I actually kind of did.

So I guess, I'm not trying to wallow in pity, but I'm also being realistic in that I'm going to feel upset at times. Does that make any sense?
I agree with the letting the emotions come out. If I feel like I want to cry, then I just have a big bawling cry by myself and get it out. If I feel angry then I stomp around and get it out. I always feel much better after. I read somewhere that if you are feeling crappy about the A one day you should just put a picture of your H on the bed and beat the snot out of it in order to release the emotions. I haven't tried this yet but I'm sure I will eventually.
LOL! I like your suggestions. I've never done that before... One night I did have a really good run at the gym. Pushed like I had never pushed before.

When I get angry, I don't know...I hate being angry. I just think through the angry thoughts until they go away. Those bother me the least. It's when I start crying and feel insecure that it's the worst. Usually just being around H makes me feel better.

I guess I'm just tired of burying my feelings/problems. I really think that's part of the reason we wound up in the mess we did.
Hi Deb-

Well you made my day again! I have been ill this week. Nothing terribly serious. My H has made a point of taking care of me. I think it's very nice and I make sure to tell him so. He's been taking me to doctors (oooo, I hate going) and picking up food for me, etc.

We did have an incident a while ago. We were plugging along for a while when H suddenly went back into the tunnel of MLC. Oh man, I started to feel all those aweful powerless feelings but (so proud here) only for an instant. No tears, no trying to reason with him, I simply told him that I would be seeing an attorney and let him know what would be coming next. I had no expectations....none. And then, viola, H seemed to straighten right up. That's been about a month and a half ago. I did in fact see an attorney that day and then went shopping! (Felt so much better.)

I have been thinking that I should post to my own thread and get some greatly needed advice about getting him to counseling. He has promised but nothing yet. I know that it will not help to push....ugh.

Anyway, hope that this is making sense, pain meds and all! I'll check in again tomorrow. Thanks for the smile Deb!

Dawn
No time to post, but thought I'd check in so I can do so more easily tomorrow. Kind of a weird weekend, H seemed a little distant, but I got an I love you email today, although he's talking about having to work on some weekends which of course just puts my anxiety over the top....I'm going to try to talk to him about it tonight. I think at this point I cant live with my head in the sand much longer, I need to know if the anxiety is "just me" or if it's realistic, if that makes sense.
Hey Deb - Sorry I missed your birthday - belated greetings Gosh, quite a few Libras here...

Do you remember Talista? I recall she saying that even after all these months, she remembers everyday. I think we just need to be prepared for a long 'piecing' journey..

Slowly
I finally have a few minutes to post....where to start. Weekend was pretty uneventful as far as H, but D & SIL moved 8 hours away, we helped them pack and saw them off, and it was VERY emotional for all of us, I'm still teary as I type this.
I felt like H was kind of distant from me, and I responded by being "kind of" anxious and clingy . I think part of that is all that's been going on, part of it is rebound from the A, I'm certain. At one point H commented that I was clingy....I apologized for being that way, and he said, well, you've had a lot to deal with, turning 50 one week and D leaving the next (no mention of his part, though)

Not much talk of OW, but she is really weird when I see her. last night I happened to get on the freeway right behind her, and she immediately stepped on the gas, the woman had to be going at least 20 miles over the speed limit.

H is really horny, I havent initiated ml because he does it before I get a chance. I can't complain about that.

I find myself really at loose ends after being focused for so long on getting him to recommit. I am not at all sure how to proceed from here. I want us to build a NEW and GREAT M together...but not sure how to start....Any one have any ideas? Are the KLA tapes here geared to that?

I am also having a hard time with trust, and accepting that the A is really over, and I must admit a great deal of my anxiety and clingyness comes from that. I've decided I need to ask H for what I want/need, but it is difficult and delicate...last night in conversation he told me he hasn't had any communication w/OW for "several weeks", whatever that means. That she was called into talk to the HR director for not doing her job (hMMMMMMMMMMM, am I surprised) but that a corrective action plan hasnt been done yet. If she got fired, I don't know if it would be better or worse. As a nurse, that's a high demand profession in this area,so she'd probably not have much trouble finding something else. I'd feel sorry for her poor D, though. enough focus on OW....

This morning I told H that I still needed reassurance, and asked if the other thing was really over...he looked exasperated, and said "yes, I believe it is"....whatever that means. I didnt go into detail about what would be reassuring to me at the time....just wanted to brooch the subject. I told him again I was sorry for my anxiety, then added "but from what I've read, it's normal" and he said "yes, I know it is"....of course he does, he does marital counseling, for heavens sake. but, it was good to hear him admit it, now we'll see where things go.

I got an email from him this morning, telling me to be careful driving today (have to go out of town)...emailed him back a mushy one, and he responded warmly although not mushily.

I've been reading threads although not posting much...it seems that Slowly and Sage are dealing with much the same stuff......helpful thoughts there.

I'm going to try tracking what I do to meet H's LL as Sage is doing, seems like a place to start. Other than that, I need to give some thought to how to regroup and set some new goals.

and, oh yeah, maybe I need to just keep my hands off the rope and remember to focus on putting fun in our lives/making home the best place to be. That in itself seems to go a long way.

Any suggestions/thoughts out there?
Hi Deb - I find myself struggling with trust too We probably need to continue to be kind to ourselves, and not expect too much too soon. Learn to live with the unresolved.

I'm finding it easier to focus on myself for now, continue connecting with my friends. NG seems to relax more when I'm not so intense about 'us'. Oh and the being horny - I get that too. I think its their comfort zone on the re-connection

Slowly
Thanks Slowly, I think you're absolutely right about not expecting too much too soon, and focusing on our selves. I need to keep reminding myself of that. Although I do need to keep up efforts "speak" in H's LL's, more and more I am coming to understand that a lot of where I went wrong before......

I've not had much time to post lately, things are so busy. But, H seems to be closer this week after I felt he was more distant. weird, How I just get those feelings.

He is beginning to joke with me some about OW. I think that's good, from the standpoint that in order to be able to joke about it, he has to be giving up some of the emotional investment.

Tuesday was his long 12-hour day here in the home office where OW works. I finally finished up my list of 110 things I adore about him, laminated it, put it in an envelope and stuck it in his mailbox before I left for the evening (OW saw me put it there, I'm surprised he got it!)........He emailed me that he loved it and appreciated it, that it was creative and original, although a list of 100 things she loved to do with him had been done before. I emailed him back that it irritated me to know she beat me to my ideas...he emailed back that he was sorry, he was just teasing, and he truely did treasure it. This morning he told me it was a year ago this past July that she gave him that, when things were really "hot" (before I even knew about the A). It's a tremendous relief to me when he discloses these tidbits, and I find they come more easily now. I have to believe that means he a)hurts less from the breakup and b)feels more comfortable talking to me.

I still have my rough moments, but I think I'm making progress. Continuing to focus on what I need to accomplish personally and building "good stuff" into our M and home life seem to be the keys. I now know for sure that WOA has to be one of H's top LL's, and he was STARVING for it, even from childhood...that's how OW got her ugly foot in the door. I certainly intend to make sure that never happens again.

If only it hadnt taken me all these years to learn this! Duh!
Dear Deb - How are you?
Quote:

finally finished up my list of 110 things I adore about him, laminated it, put it in an envelope and stuck it in his mailbox before I left for the evening (OW saw me put it there, I'm surprised he got it!)........He emailed me that he loved it and appreciated it, that it was creative and original,


Oho - I'm gonna steal this idea - maybe something for NG's birthday which comes up mid Nov - what a super thought
Quote:

although a list of 100 things she loved to do with him had been done before. I emailed him back that it irritated me to know she beat me to my ideas...he emailed back that he was sorry, he was just teasing, and he truely did treasure it. This morning he told me it was a year ago this past July that she gave him that, when things were really "hot" (before I even knew about the A). It's a tremendous relief to me when he discloses these tidbits, and I find they come more easily now. I have to believe that means he a)hurts less from the breakup and b)feels more comfortable talking to me.



Deb - sharing these little bits with you is truly a gift - you are so right, it does mean he is more comfortable. Well done, you

Now, have you heard from BnB lately? I hope she is OK. Slowly
Will post in a little bit....so wild at work, few minutes to spare! and just as busy at home!
I thought I'd try to post real quickly.

I believe we are going to make it, but I still struggle with worry that H will go back to OW....things are generally very good between us, although I want to ramp up the romance, and need to to get the KLA tapes....

I find that I'm having a hard time letting go of the hurt and anguish and distrust. maybe I'm expecting too much of myself too soon, next week will be the first anniversary of "the bomb", and it hasnt yet been 2 months since H told me it was over w/OW....

We were off work yesterday, butI had a hard time because H went to do paper work in the morning, and got home later than he said he would. This is the first time he's gone to work on the weekend since he told me "it" was over, and I knew it would be tough. I'm sorry to say I was in tears by the time he came in. He was very apologetic, and I believe he did go to try to catch up on paper work, as his annual review is next week and he's worried about it. His manner is also different than it was when he was going to see the b---h. I just still have a hard time, probably compounded by the fact that he was gone Friday to a workshop, and next week's "bomb"anniversary.
Yesterday morning before he left, he told me he loved me more than ever, and sounded like he meant it....last night I asked him if he still sees her, and he said "no, why?" and it's hard to describe but he sounded sincere. I asked if he still calls, he said no, said she occasionally ????emails him, just a "hi" type of thing, but I sure don't like that. I asked if he still misses her alot, and he said "sometimes"....I told him I hoped the day would come when he'd be happy enough with me that he wouldnt feel that way. He said "the two are completely unrelated, I am happy with you".... This morning before work he told me my hair looked nice, which is unusual....but I can live with hearing it!

I got an email from him this morning that he's really busy, has several emergencies coming in, and is praying for a cancellation so he can get his paperwork done and not have to do it on the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know paper work is a problem for clinicians, but I just have such a hard time still because that is when he used to go see ow.

He did say he loved me in the email, and that he needed some snuggle time tonight. He is loving and fun and considerate, initiates ML every other day, and yet still I am so terrified he will go back to her.

I don't have a clue how to get past this. I don't think he understands the depth of the issue, and I dont' know how to get through to him with out alienating him/pushing him away.

I'm trying to just keep the focus on what works (making stuff good at home) but it still gnaws at me. He does seem to have a different attitude than when he was with OW, and certainly different than pre-bomb. I don't know how to describe it, just happier/more content. My mom even commented on it a couple of weeks ago.

Has anyone else dealt with this????? How did you get through it????? I really could use some ideas....



My dad had an affair with a co-worker 25 years ago. My parents divorced and then remarried each other a year later. I asked my mom how she got past the hurt. Her response was only time will heal you. You can't rush it. Day by day you will feel a little less hurt until one day its not there anymore. She said occasionally she still has triggers but there not as bad and they usually pass quickly.

I know its hard to be patient. Everyday I tell myself I just want to feel better already. We are just going to have to wait it out.
Dear Deb - I am in much the same phase that you are in, just finding it very difficult to believe that the affair is really over. I'm feeling myself put up walls just to avoid being hurt again, and things are strained as a result.

I like MF's note, it must just be time to heal. Thinking of you. Slowly
Hey you,

I am always thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way.

You are doing good work and I can tell by the way that you sound that things have settled down and are no where near as frantic as they were a few months ago.

Hard to realize that there are no guarantees, I think we always want to think that there will be a point when we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the A is OVER (and the companion thought that there will never be another A). But now we know that promises do get broken, but life does go on.

But we still keep looking for that assurance, realizing that anything is possible. We just don't ever want to get caught blindsided again, but I am not sure there is truly a way to prevent that.

Try to keep enjoying the moment, living in the moment, loving H for who he is not what he does. Loving him in spite of the fact that there are no guarantees of what tomorrow might bring.

Does any of this make sense?

I guess the collateral damage of the A is that we know too much to go back to our state of blissful naivete.

take care,

Pam
Hi Deb-

I love the replies you have gotten to your last post. Lots of good support! I especially love what Pam had to say. I think she's talking to you about faith. You've got to have it Deb....have faith. Faith in YOURSELF. You are doing the right thing. You are on the right path. Just keep your head high and keep going.

Yes, you have seen the ugly side of marriage but instead of letting it destroy you, make you bitter, you have been strengthen by this event. And hopfully, with time your marriage will be strengthen too. Time is the key.

Try to remember Deb that your reactions today will have an effect on tomorrow. We have all learned that through DB, right? I guess that you could think of your marriage like a garden...each positive response is a flower....each negative response a weed.

Every time you feel that overwhelming doubt and fear do something good for yourself........Plant a flower!

Will be thinking of you!

Dawn
Hi you all, MF and Slowly and Pamila and Dawn...what would I do with out you?????you have such great insights to share, I'd never be able to stay anywhere near on track without you......

I've been so busy I havent been posting much lately, but wanted to tell you all I appreciate and need your support and suggestions....I'll update my sitch in a little bit.
Posted By: debcb I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 05:26 PM
I'm in a weird place emotionally, so frustrated and not sure what to do next, if anything. I think it may be very much what slowly's been experiencing.

I have a hard time believing that the A has ended....I've heard that story too many times before only to have it blow up in my face. So, I try to keep my hands off the rope but it is still tough.

H is pleasant and considerate (other than this morning, which I'll explain in a minute) and fun, but not as "romantic" as I saw there for a tiny bit....that's a disappointment, but maybe doesnt mean anything. He still seems, I believe, more "contented" and at ease at home....
Monday we were off work and he left to do "paperwork" he said....said he'd be home by noon or before, didnt get home till after 1....I did not do well with that at all....he said he was sorry, but did nothing to reassure me.

The anniversary of the bomb is this coming Monday. It is very unnerving to me for some reason. This morning I told H I needed some reassurance, and asked if he still calls her, he said "No!" and blew up that he was sick of this all the time, that if he was away from me and wanted to do something on his own I got anxious.......he was very angry, I just walked out of the room with out a word, left the house and came to work. About an hour later I got an email apologizing for being so cranky, that he wasnt feeling well (again) ...I emailed back that i was sorry for my part as far as being clingy, but the anniversary coming up was bothering me.

He responded that he knew he needed to spend time with me, that he is worried about work stuff, that he's behind on paperwork because of the new people he's had to train (yeah, that and all the time he spent goofing off with OW for over a year), is getting in trouble for it and is afraid he won't get his raise. absolutely no acknowledgement or mention of the bomb anniversary, or that anything might be amiss....

I am so frustrated. If the A is truely over and he really loves me, why does he get so angry?

Why do I have to ask him for reassurance? He, of all people, should know it's going to be needed.

On the other hand, I keep asking myself a weird question....why does it upset me so that he had/has an A?????????

I don't know the answers to any of this, and sure don't know what to do. I prefer having him in my life to not having him in my life....can't imagine life with out him.....BUT....
I DO NOT want to go back to the way things were before. distant, cordial but not passionate....just kind of blindly trudging through life.

I believe I have the right to ask for what I need, and if that includes reassurance, so be it. Throughout our marriage, I've tended to shove my needs under the carpet and not speak up about them....no more of that either. I guess I need to reread "asking for what you want" in DR....

BUT, the question haunts me, if I find out he's back in w/OW, what do I do now? Part of me is feeling like it's really finished with this game....another part of me feels like "get a grip, get a life, and let go until he gets over it".....

Yet still, maybe it IS over and it frustrates him to hear about it. Yet it's incredibly naive to think he can "skate" without having to deal with what happened on any level with me.

I don't know, I'm tired and frustrated and wish I could just crawl in bed today and pull the blankets over my head for a while.

I'm also confused again, he was so happy with "romance" and now again I hear this being thrown up about if he wants to do anything besides be with me ( I feel that's inaccurate, but then we all know the futility of challenging their point of view)that I can't handle it.

what do I do now? I've thought of writing him another letter, trying to explain that not asking for what I need didn't work before, and that I don't want him to feel stifled but I do need reassurance from him......

I'm clueless as usual........somebody got some guidance or even a 2 X 4??????
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 05:41 PM
Lat night at S's religion class, I got there early for pick up and took a book in to read as I waited....this is a large room, actually a gym partitioned in half, and has some school lunch tables in it. I sat at one in the middle of the room and read ( Passionate marriage, by the way)...when the kids first began coming out, I noticed a child stopped in front of me....I glanced up, didnt immediately know who it was, but it was OW's D....the poor kid gasped like she had seen a ghost and opened and closed her mouth like a fish gulping for air....I blinked and she quickly went to her mother, who put her arm around her.

I thought this was the oddest thing...at first I thought it was an accident, but then I came to think the child was wanting to say something to me, I don't have a clue what, a confrontation?????? The poor kid, to be so drug in to her mom's crap....
I can not imagine what OW must have told her about me. I've never said an unkind word about the child to anyone, or even thought it. I guess if she ever does say anything, all I can do is validate with something like "I can see how it must seem that way" or "it must be hard"....

Of course then the devil on my shoulder brings to mind the fact that I COULD always make copies of the ugly come-on letters her mom wrote to my H and give them to her....

Weird stuff still.....I feel so sorry for that child, she is such a lost girl....her dad and his new wife don't want anything to do with her (as reported by H from what OW told him of course)........
Posted By: MovingForward Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 05:47 PM

I don't know if this will help but I have had similar situations with my H. Every time I have asked for reassurance about his ONS that it really was a ONS and not something more and that it really is over he gets angry. I finally asked him why he was getting angry. Was he angry at me? He said no, He is angry at himself. Every time the ONS is brought up he has to relive how stupid he acted and how much he hurt me. He is struggling with forgiving himself. I think he has an intense fear that I will never get past it and that I will never believe him and I will never trust him again. He is trying so hard to show me that he loves me and that he is trustworthy and every time I say anything about it I think he sees it as undermining his efforts. Sage has a really good post about a discussion she had with her H that I think may help.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 05:53 PM
Thanks MF, this does help. Somehow in my anxiety it hadnt occured to me that it could be his anger and fear that he's reacting to. I wish he could just say that to me! If this is what's happening, then any mention of it is a BIG cheeseless tunnel. But NEVER talking about it doesnt seem an option that will help me to heal.

Is Sage's post in her latest thread???? what is your thread?
Posted By: MovingForward Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 05:54 PM

its in Sages' latest thread.

My thread is My Mission to Show Love
Posted By: Pamila Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 05:58 PM
Oh Deb,

I feel like you are off the coaster and maybe have switched over to the merry go round, fun for a while, but also slighly nauseating if you stay on too long.

Leave OW's D out of this, period. She needs your prayers and nothing more. But I do wonder what she wanted to say to you.

As for your H I am wondering if the "honeymoon" period of reconnection is over and you are falling back into old more mundane patterns.

Weren't you supposed to go away sometime in October?

I will repeat my mantra from earlier this summer : He is not going to leave you for OW.

Quite frankly I think that you might benefit from a little away time from H, too much togetherness can breed familiarity. Go away overnight with a gal pal and give H a chance to miss you.

Have you ever read the Mars Venus book? I highly recommend it and think that you would benefit from it.

take care,

Pam
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 05:58 PM
thanks....I'll check them out! I sure appreciate your input.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:00 PM
Geez, what the heck am I going to do if he's back with her though?

This battle is just wearing me out. I know slowly's dealing with the same thing.....
Posted By: Pamila Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:01 PM
and likewise...

If I had not found this bb I am quite sure that I would have long ago been on the path to the big D. You are the best.
Posted By: Pamila Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:04 PM
I really do not think that your H is back with OW (her name is Donna, right?)

I think that it is possible that he not totally disconnected from her, but I think that back with her is not really the truth.

She may be pressuring him or otherwise doing things to try and re-engage H and he may be sucked into that a little bit, but I DON'T think that he is all the way "in."
Posted By: Pamila Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:07 PM
A friend reminded me yesterday that this truly is a spiritual battle and this is the part that I needed to hear, that it is a battle against Satan who is trying to destroy our M and wreck our families.

It is not a battle against H or even OW.

Satan sees that he is losing the battle, so he is fighting harder to get H back on his side
Posted By: Nevanna Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:29 PM
Deb...

Your H is acting perfectly normal for your situation.

My H gets mad at me when I get "too upset." Actually, he told me the other day that he feels like, when I cry on him, that I'm "throwing it in his face." (I have heard that phrase sooo many times it makes me want to puke!) Heh. If I wanted to, I could say a lot of horrible stuff. But I'm an adult, it wouldn't really help me, and quite honestly, it wouldn't really make me feel any better. We just went 'round this one last night.

I'm betting he still can't face what he's done yet. You getting upset or anxious only reminds him of how much he's hurt you. And it makes him feel like a bad person. So he's retreating...or, the defensiveness is coming across as anger. (I actually used to do this myself.)

I'm not saying he doesn't feel bad. He just hasn't come to terms with it all yet himself. And that usually doesn't happen until he's completely and totally disconnected from OW. Which, as we all know, can be a nasty process.

Okay, now that I've taken a stab at what might be going on with your H, you, BTW, are acting perfect normal as well.

It's okay to be insecure and needy. Doesn't mean you have to act on it. But try to watch that fine line between pushing him away and getting the reassurance that you need. He may not be able to give you everything yet, because he may be just emotionally drained. (Guys retreating into their "cave" and all that stuff.)

And BTW...after H's whole nonsense about me "throwing it in his face" and how I never let him forget...late last night he broke down, couldn't quit crying, and kept asking me to forgive him. Sometimes I think he blames himself more than I blame him, and that's why he's so sensitive when I get upset.

I think these guys need to feel safe and secure before that barrier gets broken through to let the guilt out. Know what I mean? I push too hard, and H retreats. I relax, and he'll crack a little more. It's a weird little dance, but hopefully we're moving forward with it.

So...if you're not getting the attention you need, maybe you need some "you" time. It always helps me feel better. Remember, it's not entirely up to your H to make you feel better...and some point you will know when it's okay to let go and feel safe again. (And I bounce around, back and forth, a lot... )

It's perfectly normal for you to be sensitive around "trigger" activities on his part. (I have this weird thing with H going to the gym without me, and I have no idea why...).

And yes, I understand the whole bomb-day anniversary anxiety. (The first bomb-day in our sitch was last year, about a week into October.) I had it, too. Somehow things I hadn't thought of in awhile and had thought I was past just came back up again.

Just take a deep breath, and realized that it's a process...it takes time...and you will feel better.

And I agree, I don't think your H is really going to leave you for OW.

Just take it one day at a time. (And remember how much better things are now than they were six months...a year ago...)
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:31 PM
Hi Pamila, Yep, you're right, her name is Donna.
I wouldnt be surprised if she is doing all kinds of weird things to suck him back in....I don't remember if I posted here or not, but evidently she threatened suicide a lot this past summer and really pitched a fit when we went on vacation the end of June (after she dumped him, and all his tears, sheesh. talk about manipulation).

yes, you are right about Satan, my mom and MIL have mentioned this to me several times, my mom especially that he is working on ME by trying to get me to give up....sometimes things take such weird twists that I think it has to be the devil after me. I need to pray more, certainly cant do that to much!
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:39 PM
Thanks Nevanna, you are one sharp cookie. We are all amazingly predictable in going through this stuff, arent we? I find it really difficult right now, just real hard to not think the other shoe is going to drop and that he'll be back with her AGAIN. Of course just a week ago he was bringing it up in a teasing way....what a roller coaster! it is enough to make me urp!

On the other hand, you gave me a really good reminder about how different things are...Frankly they are night and day from what they were a year ago....even 6 months ago. If I stop and think about it, it's almost hard to believe how much much better they are. Thanks for reminding me of that!
Posted By: trustinginHim Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 06:54 PM
Hi Deb,

Mostly I lurk on your thread, but have never realized how eerily similar our situations are until I read your post for today. Mind if I take a moment to commiserate with you?

Saturday is the one year anniversary of MY bomb. October has always been my favorite month of the year and now for the rest of my life, it will forever be tarnished with the news I learned one year ago. My bomb anniversary is also one of my best girlfriend's birthday. Sigh. I am so ready for the day that it ONLY becomes her birthday again and all this is forgotten.

As I read your post, I recognize so much of the same things I am also going through right now.

My H is also pleasant and considerate, occasionally fun to be around, but there is no romance (read as intimacy) whatsoever in our R. When romance is addressed, I get the same excuses as you do--that he is simply worried about work, that he's incredibly behind because of all the time he spent goofing off from work for over a year and a half (he will admit to the goofing off, but he WON'T admit that the time was spent with OW), is getting in trouble for it from his superiors AND his employees (his superiors want oodles of work from him and his employees want to continue to goof off while he wants them to work now) and is afraid he won't get his promotion.

I try to offer as much support as I can to him in any way that I can and I hope that it is doing something for him, but the best thing I can do for me is to "drop the rope." Sometimes I have to wonder how healthy that is for us too. I struggle with letting my H be and letting go and letting God. How long do I do this? Is is imperative to set a timeline up or do I simply continue to let things go? When do I start asking for what I want? I have tried it once and it caused a big blowup between us and subsequently my requests were ignored, because in his opinion one request was a bad idea (blocking OW's emails, which I think is a fair request) and my request for more intimacy was agreed with, but quickly forgotten. So that is what I got for attempting to ask for what I wanted. Mostly I was hurt all over again. I think if you send another letter at this point, it will not be a good idea, IMHO.

And neither do I want to go back to the way things were before as you described: distant, cordial but not passionate....just kind of blindly trudging through life. But it seems that is what we are doing. Perhaps it is a necessary stage in the healing process before we can move on to the next better level. Am I fooling myself thinking that? Probably, but for now, I am going to consider this a healing stage for the both of us and will continue to be still.

So I am in that same weird place emotionally you are today. Since so many of us are experiencing this same phase, does that mean it might be normal in this process? I hope so. My counselor told me that it is going to take a long, long, long time for us to heal. I just have to remember to remain patient in the healing process.

Pamila and Nevanna--your words helped me immensely today. Thank you!!

Blessings,
LG

deb:

Something that popped into my head a few days ago. H and I were in bed and once again the thoughts came. Was it really just a ONS? Is it true he hasn't seen her since then? Is it true that she has called a few times and he has never once called her. I felt the questions on the tip of my tongue and almost woke him up to ask him and then I stopped myself. What would it accomplish? He has already answered these questions. Is it going to make me feel any better to repeat it or am I just going to question it again a few days from now? I know what I am looking for - absolute proof that he is not lying. I am never going to get it. I decided not to ask again. I decided to focus on his actions. His actions are not of a man who is cheating. His actions are of a man who is trying to set things right. No he doesn't always do the right thing but he is trying.

I have been following your sitch and your H seems to be trying just as my h is.

Just a thought.
Posted By: sage Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 07:18 PM
Deb -- Been where you're at right now.. Even VERY recently (despite it being almost 2 years since bomb dropping)

Here are some of the recent posts on my thread after h and I had a HUGE fight recently:

Quote:

Took your advice. Apologized. Ask for input on what happened. His response was familiar -- that he scewed up (affair) but that he feels like I may forgive him but never forget it and that he will never forgive himself and he doesn't want to look back in 20 years and regret staying married. That he feels like it will always be something between us and that he doesn't want to live his life that way.

Claims that I'm fooling myself if I think I can get over it. Thinks it's the "devil I know" that keeps me here.

We talked a fair amount. Says my desire for more closure (thru conversation) just hurts him -- he doesn't want to talk or even think about the affair. Says that he knows he was the one who planted the landmines, etc.

I don't know how to "convince" him that we won't end up in a similar sitch to last night because I'm not sure it's true...I'm trying as hard as I can to manage my insecurities, etc. I don't think it's a neverending proposition but he doesn't want to hear that.





Quote:

******************
Some thoughts from our fight...use these to help refine goals/areas to focus...

1. h believes that I will never trust him again ("I KNOW you. You will NEVER trust me again")

2. h believes that I have forgiven him but that I haven't forgotten and that the A is in the forefront of my mind

3. h says that he doesn't think he will ever forgive himself

4. h says that my desire to talk about the A is counter to his desire NOT to talk about it. He said that I ASSume that I will gain more HEALING than he will "lose" in the discussion.

5. h wanted to hear the reasons why I still wanted to be M to him...this actually seemed like a very big part of the conversation

6. h said he thinks I've defaulted to the "devil" I "know" (doesn't feel CHOSEN)

7. h said that he couldn't imagine us ever apart -- that I am part of his DNA

8. H asked to hear praise for how hard he's been working -- to hear appreciation for the good stuff that he's been doing for our M (WOA?? My h? )

9. h was definitely struggling with physical pain and his actions were definitely clouded by that

10. h doesn't want to "pay" for this for the rest of his life

11. Part of "trust" to h means not only that I believe in his fidelity but also that I "trust" him as he is ("unconditional love")

12. h said that his fear was that he'd go merrily along only to hit "landmines" because of something he said or did that triggered the A in my mind. It seems like the unpredictability is a BIG factor for him (would it help to be more clear with him about what my triggers are?). He used the word "LANDMINE" quite a bit






If your sitch is anything like mine the insecurities WILL come and go for a while...the fear that they're still together, etc...I've mostly tried to explore any and every outlet before going to h for reassurances...it just doesn't work that well in my sitch (particularly if I'm in high anxiety mode)...look for the positives and actions that support that h is "doing the right thing" and take excellent care of yourself..both of those things seem to help me.

Sage
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 08:50 PM
Hi Lost Girl,
thanks for jumping in, it's good to "talk" to you...
Our sitchs are a LOT alike arent they? right down to the time frames, I noticed you even "joined" the bb about the same time I did. I hope you are right that it is a stage of the healing process, but I'm kind of thinking it has to be, because I also hear a lot of similar things here.

I find it interesting about the work situations going down the tubes. i know the contributed to h'S, he's been here 16 years and always been one of the top performers....all of a sudden that just "tanks"??? me thinks not! I don't know if I ever posted here, but H mentioned a few weeks ago that OW had to meet with the HR director about her job performance, but that a corrective action plan hadnt been done. So, OW's performance must have tanked as well. I can't say mine's been what it was, but maybe I've not been as far off....
H also mentioned that you can't take vacation if you're on corrective action or probation....I don't know how he'd know that, I didn't even know that...so maybe they've put OW on something....oh darn, the poor baby.

I am struggling big time with the issues of WHEN and HOW to ask for what I need.....I MUST be able to do that...I'm NOT going to go back to the "same old same old"....I just don't know When I get to do that??????obviously it wasnt this morning duh. I have to admit that was poor timing on my part. I don't know HOW long we keep letting things slide....My only consolation is what MF mentioned earlier, to remember how far we have come in the last year and 6 months. That truely is HUGE and gives me some hope to cling to.

I can't see that this roller coaster has slowed down much at all.
thanks again, Moving Forward.
Quote:

I know what I am looking for - absolute proof that he is not lying. I am never going to get it. I decided not to ask again. I decided to focus on his actions. His actions are not of a man who is cheating. His actions are of a man who is trying to set things right. No he doesn't always do the right thing but he is trying.

I have been following your sitch and your H seems to be trying just as my h is.



I hadnt thought of this but you are right, his actions do seem to indicate that he's trying to make things right. I run into problems with not asking. Honestly for the most part I don't, but sometimes I just do need some reassurance. I'm trying to get past that, but after "stuffing" it for so long to get to this point, some times it just comes out, it seems.

And of the course, there's that part of me that way down deep thinks, "I've worked so hard and been so patient and understanding, the least he can do now is give me what I need".........hmmmmmmmm....therein lies much of the problem I believe. Frankly it does seem like the least he can do, and if he isn't willing to do that, why not? I have no clue of the answer to that one.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 11:22 PM
Thanks Sage, I read some of these posts on your thread earlier....It helps to know you've experienced some of the same feelings and anxieties, helps a lot, because I've always looked at you as one of those folks who really has this DBing stuff figured out! It even helps to know that asking for reassurance doesnt work very well in your sitch. I'm going to focus on your and other's suggestions to look for the actions that indicate that he's doing "the right thing" and renew some efforts to take care of me. I gotta maintain that focus to get through this ride!
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/14/04 11:33 PM
I almost overlooked a big positive in all my anxiousness.
H has started to sleep in just his undershorts so that we can snuggle "skin to skin". This is his own doing, although I commented once it was nice. He holds me A LOT in the night...this is new, within the last 2 - 3 months. I remember when I used to long for this. Now I often get woke up at night by him putting his arm around me and snuggling up against me or asking to do that or asking me to snuggle up to him. It's nice, I truely treasure it. A few months ago I would have never dared to hope that I could have this....so I guess anythings possible, and this is a big "anything" that I shouldnt overlook. Even last night I know I woke up 3 times with him holding me...maybe thats part of his frustration, maybe he feels like that should be enough reassurance.
Posted By: Nevanna Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/15/04 02:09 PM
I had a couple of thoughts that might help you out. Try to keep track of the positives instead of looking at the negatives. It sounds so obvious, but after all this nonsense, I think it's easy for us to keep looking for any little sign that things are headed south. Maybe writing down all of the good stuff somewhere (here or a personal journal) will help you focus on the positives.

Another thought...are you making sure he knows when he does something that makes you feel better? I think they are as hypersensitive to stuff as we are. (My H keeps sayin he is convinced that I am going to leave him.) And if all he hears is that he's not helping, he might start to think why even bother, if nothing is ever good enough. Know what I mean? I've found that, with my H at least, telling how great he is how good I feel when he does stuff that helps me feel reassured increases that behavior.

Hope you're having a nice Friday.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/15/04 03:17 PM
Thanks Nevanna, these are really good suggestions. at one point I kept a "success journal", but I've kind of let that slide, so yes, getting back to that is a good idea.

I try to let him know when he does something "good"....but probably about almost everything EXCEPT when he does something that's reassuring (although I have thanked him when he leaves notes about where he's going, asks me to go somewhere with him, etc.) You're absolutely right about how important that is to do...I'm really going to keep that in mind and focus on it this weekend.

So far things are pretty good today, I go home at noon, so am looking forward to just having some "down time"....I hope hope hope he doesnt do paperwork this weekend.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/15/04 03:25 PM
Thought I'd journal a couple of thoughts that occured to me....
In spite of my anxiousness that irritates him, H is kind and loving....
He stopped by my office yesterday eve. on his way out, chatted a minute about the day, and I told him I was sorry for being so anxious that it made him miserable. He smiled, hugged me, and said "oh,it's ok, what else would you do?" I took that as a positive;
When I got home from work last night, he had put a beer in the fridge to get cold for me. I didnt feel like drinking one, but thanked him for thinking of me and doing that, and I thought that was a sweet small gesture.

H took his shirt off when he came to bed for "skin snuggles" again....he seems to crave that even more than I do.

This morning I was almost late to work because we were just "chatting"....he hugged me and kissed me in nice, really warm ways before I left. It occurred to me that one thing that seems different about him since he told me about 2 months ago the A was over is that I have this "sense" that he is not holding back from me emotionally anymore. I don't know if anyone knows what I'm talking about, it's hard to explain, but when he was involved w/OW, it was always like he has holding "something" in "reserve".....like he wasnt completely "there" emotionally....I'd be really interesteed to know if anyone else has seen this kind of thing, or even knows what I mean!
Posted By: whats_next Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/15/04 03:47 PM
Hi Deb-
I've never posted to you before but your thread caught my eye today. I seem to be suffering the same thoughts/issues/feelings as you and the others right now. My H has yet to admit that the A is over. We've had several reconnects since January and I feel like things are different in a good way right now but there are still some things that make me think that it is not completely over. I'll add the link to my latest post below. I'm wondering if you could take a look and let me know whether it sounds like anything you have experienced? I could really use some mental help today.

Thanks!
WN

http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=788801&Main=755412#Post788801
Posted By: 41dk Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/15/04 04:03 PM
Hi Deb-

I am so sorry that I missed your posts (ahem...semi-crazymaking ) about having doubts. You have gotten great advise here from everyone, as usual! And your last post has you heading in the right direction. Count your blessings, hon, always.

I am sure your H feels terrible guilt over what he has done. Each time you ask him for reassurance (but I am not so sure that it comes across that way) you are dredging up all that pain. He could come to resent you for it, associate you with the guilt.

I know that you do need the reassurance- anyone in your situation would. So why not experiment a little? Maybe your timing is off? Try asking for reassurance 1. in a different way and 2. at different times. Okay, for example (and thinking of my situation here) instead of asking my H if he is never going to leave me again ....I might say something like "what do you think about putting up a shed?" And I learned never to ask him such things when he is walking out the door. Also, I never call him back into the room after he has left it. He hates that.

I hope you see were I am going with this! My pain pills are making me silly . It is possible for you to get what you need without the direct questions and accusations. Hope this makes sense!

Dawn
Posted By: debcb Trying to reach What's Next - 10/18/04 01:51 PM
Hi What's Next, Thanks for stopping in! I'm sorry I didnt post to you in response to your request on Friday, but I've been off the board over the weekend. Also, I tried to post on your thread this morning, and I believe it's locked up.

I'll try to read through your thread and catch up on your sitch today....
I did read about the truck, and I have to say, I don't know if you read my old threads or not (I've been around a while, that would take A LOT!) but last spring, when my H's MLC was still raging (I'd say it's more smoldering now) I dealt with the exact same issue....suddenly one of the huge problems in his life, caused by me of course, was that he was driving an old vehicle because of my "stifling him"....never mind the fact that a year or so before this had been his pride and joy "guy toy--hunting wagon" , and that now that he's driving a nice almost new, top of the line 4wheeler, he misses his old hunting wagon! go figure!
Anyway, his damn vehicle was one more BIG reason why his life sucked and OW was so much better (she drove his dream 4wd SUV)....So I decided to take that reason away, and did pretty much what you did....found vehicles to look at and arranged the financing for him, and let him go from there....(dangerously close to "mothering" him, which I try to avoid)....but it did seem to eventually defuse that issue....

I'll watch for your new thread!
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 01:55 PM
Hi Dawn, thanks for checking in on me. How are you doing? and how is your H?????

I think you're right about the reassurance ( actually I know you are, you wise woman!) Actually, if I pay attention to the indirect reassurances, there are quite a few of them! but I still struggle a lot....I'll have to post about the weekend in a minute...I'm not doing as badly today as I thought I might!!!!
Posted By: Pamila Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 02:42 PM
Hey Deb,

I thought about you this morning when I read today's Charlyne Cares. It is all about taking control of your thought life.

I can do an ok job of that until I get around H, then it is like all of the sudden paranoia can creep in and I start holding myself and him up to the magnifying glass.

Part of the reason I had to leave the other morning was because I had the overwhelming urge to check his cell phone and see if there was a message from OW. Talk about your cheeseless tunnel, yeesh.

I am also now getting international hang up phone calls again, so I know that there is trouble in paradise. Someone on the board used to have a thread titled "Paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

take care, I am eager to see your weekend update,

Pam
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 03:02 PM
Today is the 1st anniversary of "THE BOMB". Surprisingly, I'm doing ok, better than I thought I would. On the one hand, it's been a year of hell, on the other it's been a year of personal growth that I needed to do and probably wouldnt have otherwise.

To update from the weekend: Friday afternoon/evening was pretty uneventful...

Saturday morning, H said he had to go to work, and I didn't do well, burst into tears. Instead of getting angry, he was actually reassuring, told me that he really was going to work (still in my mind), that it was ok that I was upset, that he probably would be also, hugged me, told me he'd be home by noon, and we'd go to church and spend the evening together.... He came home about noon, came right to me and gave me kisses and nice warm hugs. I mentioned that I wasn't in tears this time, and he said "I appreciate that".....
That day (Saturday)was the 26th anniversary of our 1st date....
Before H got home, I mentioned it to S12, and the poor kid, I had to chuckle, said "should I stay in my room tonight?"...We've never asked or suggested that S stay in his room! I guess he was trying to help me out! Anyway, S did stay all night with a friend, and H and I spent the evening in front of the fire place in the living room, had a couple of the imported beers we had on our first date, watched our "naughty movie" and ML....it was nice, except H had some performance problems which is unusual and doesnt do anything at all to reassure me. I'm assuming it was from not feeling to great with a cold, taking cold medicine, and having a couple of beers. Kind of scary though, because a couple of weeks ago he was initiating ML every other day or so. I try to shut it out of my mind, don't know what else to do.

S made me laugh again, when he came home on Sunday, he opened the fridge, he saw the beers that were left (we had 2 each from the 6-pack) and said "well my my my, arent you two the wild party animals!".....H kind of snickered, put his arm around me, and whispered in my ear "actually YOU were the party animal!"...I guess that's good?????

After lunch we were still sitting at the table and I commented on not hearing much from D and SIL since their move....that I didn't know if it was good, bad, neutral, but I didnt want to be calling them a lot when they are trying to get settled into their new home and jobs....H said he thought it was good, then added, "sometimes you have to just let people go even when you love them"....kind of took my breath away, I didnt even answer him, I was just absolutely quiet. However, since I've learned that "listening between the lines" often tells me more about whats going on with H than what he says directly, I'm leaning toward this as being an indication that the A really is over...

We leave for a 6-day vacation to our "usual" spot a week from tomorrow. I'm so glad we're going, and I hope being there in the fall will help chase the ghosts of OW further into the past.

I can't help but wonder what things will be like for us next year at this time. We still have far, far to go in building a new M....I want much more romance from H than he's giving me right now. I thought he was really going to take off in that department, but he's pretty much faded/fizzled back to his "old self" (pre-A) in the way he relates to me. Actually, he's better, just not where I want him to be. So, I gotta figure out how to work on that.

I havent tackled that much yet, because I need to take a breather, and I don't want to pressure him too much. I sensse that he is still grieving OW a lot, as much as I hate that, and I don't want to pressure him and make him think he should have made a different choice.

I did ask him this weekend if he wished he had made a different choice ( I think when I was crying before he left for work), and he said "I don't think that would have been the right solution"....that reply makes me kind of sad, and points out to me how far we still have to go. He didnt say he was happy with his choice, or that he loved me, or anything like that....

Time, I guess, it a big part of what it's going to take. and so I keep praying for patience and wisdom and guidance, and dbing one day at a time!
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 03:10 PM
Hi Pam!
Yes, Charlyne cares hit home again with me! I still have much work to do with controlling my thoughts. Actually, I was thinking a lot this weekend about "let go and let God" because I was anticipating a tough day today, and maybe that's soaking into my psyche, because I've felt pretty peaceful the last couple of days.

You know, in a weird sort of way, the hang-up phone calls are satisfying, arent they? Although not so weird either, I guess. I hadnt thought of it until you mentioned it, but we used to get a lot of them....hmmmmmm they don't seem to happen anymore...of course it probably has something to do with the fact that I got caller id, although they used to come through with the name/number blocked.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 03:17 PM
I guess I should post so I don't forget it (almost did!) H at one point this weekend told me (when I was crying Sat. morning I think) tenderly and with his arms around me, "I'm so sorry about that" (meaning the A) and he sounded very gentle and sincere. I hope. I guess my trust is really still in the gutter at this point.
Posted By: Pamila Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 03:35 PM
I am sorry for your bomb day anniversary, I had mine back in August and for as prepared as I thought I was, it was still hard.

My bomb was sort of a long slow explosion, I "caught" H (via a cell phone bill for middle of the night calls to Brazil) while he was still in Brazil and had to wait about 5 more days until he got home.

I of course did all of the usual begging crying stupid stuff that we now know to be totally bad dbing. I even went down to the basement and drug out some love letters that H wrote to me when I was in college, then showed them to him when he got back home and then attacked him with some skanky lingerie.

I am sure that you get the picture and I have to laugh at it now with the perspective of time.

No wonder H didn't think that my changes were real, I am sure that it did look like I was desperate, well, because I was.

So if you want to tell me your bomb story I will be gald to listen, otherwise we can just chalk it up for experience.

Pam
Posted By: whats_next Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 03:37 PM
Hi Deb-
I'm glad that your day is going better than expected. Thanks for your response regarding the truck. We should make it official tonight or tomorrow. I have started a new thread over on MLC by the way.

If it is any consolation, I think it is great that your H is so reassuring and affectionate. That would help me feel more at ease regarding the A being over. My H has not progressed that far yet. I long for the day that he initiates a hug! I had to ask him to crack my back the other day to get any physical contact outside of sleeping up against each other at night.

We are definitely taking baby steps, that is for sure.

I'm going to go check out Charlene Cares. Friday's really helped me.

WN
Posted By: 41dk Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 06:36 PM
Hi Deb-

Yeah for your H for handling the Saturday AM tears in a kind (and correct!) way. And nice recovery on your part.

As far as his clumsy comment about his choice....sigh....we have to remember that sometimes (ahem, all the time) our Hs speak a different language. I can remember quite a few times battling with my H over word choice. He would finally give up and say, "Okay, now what do you want me to say?" LOL So, yeah, your H's response sounds to us pretty luke warm-all logic and no heart- but to him it was heart felt.

I am doing better! Thanks for caring. I had surgery on Thursday to remove a lump/mass/something! from my breast. It was scary, not from a cancer stand point so much as a disfigurment stand point. I tried my best to have a different attitude about this particular health situation. I did my best to see this through. I have a bad habit of putting health issues off until the breaking point. This has been a sore point for H in the past. He did tell me the other day that he was proud of how I handled this last episode.

He has been sweet to me. He even picked up all the leaves in the yard Sunday! About a 3 hour job that I always handle. Twice he brought me sliced apples and bananas for breakfast- each with it's own toothpick! LOL I had to laugh at that.

So...so far so good.

Dawn

Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 06:48 PM
Oh Wow Dawn, I didn't realize you were going through that...how scary and difficult (not to mention painful!) I hope you're feeling better. Are you waiting for the results? that is sooooooooo hard. You will be in my thoughts and prayers....I'm so sorry I didn't know that....had you mentioned it and I spaced it off?

My gosh, and here you've been posting to me with all my whining while you're dealing with this! you are one brave gal.

Hats off to your H! I love the fruit with a toothpick in each slice! How sweet of him .
Posted By: 41dk Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 07:01 PM
Hi Deb-

Please don't feel badly. I never mentioned it, only that I was ill.

I assume that I will get results when I get my sutures out (next Monday) but the surgeon doesn't think that it is anything to worry about....so I am not! (LOL, does that sound convincing?) Truly, I have thought about it but try not to dwell. If it was suspicious for cancer they would have done the pathology right then and there.

Reading the board and talking to you helped to pass the time while I was feeling ill (it was quite painful) and while I was recovering. So thank you!

Thanks also for your thoughts and prayers.

Dawn
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 07:21 PM
Hi Pam....yeah, making it through the anniversary of bomb day feels like a victory of sorts. As I look back, I'm so thankful to at least be down the road from that horrible time, even if not where I want to be.

I knew all last summer (actually a year ago last summer, this is fall, isn't it?) something was up with H....I knew at almost EXACTLY the time it turned physical....I suspect an emotional affair started at just about the time she came to work here and was in the office next to him, which was two years ago this coming November....

As I look back now, all the signs were so obvious, my instincts were screaming warnings all over the place, I even had dreams over and over again!!!!

Anyway, I KNEW what was going on, even who, but H denied it and said i was being paranoid and imagining stuff.....yeah, right....But I wanted so much to believe him that I stuffed all my intuitive warnings inside and thought I was really losing it.
Last fall, I noticed that S12 was very withdrawn and quiet and sullen.....I couldnt for the life of me figure out what was up with him...he's shy around others sometimes, but around me he never shuts up, I literally have to ask him every now and then to be quiet so I can think. It was so out of character for him....H was taking him camping to the lake....a "father/son" activity....yeah, right, they were picking up OW & her D and taking them camping.....

H was gone on Bomb Day, I think "to work" (this was a Saturday)....I was outside watering flowers, and got a phone call. It was a guy, (I think OW's ex-live-in boyfriend) who said I should ask S about the camping weekends.....I had had that little nagging voice anyway....so I did....

Lord, the poor kid broke down like the flood gates had been opened. He was so consumed with guilt it was just eating him up. His dad had been taking him with him to carry on all this crap w/OW, and telling him to keep it secret.

I called OW and gave her my opinion of the situation...LMAO now, I think H was probably at her house when I did, looking back....he came home a couple of hours later, walked through the house without a word, sat down in a chair in the living room looking like he'd been hit by a truck, and I let him have it with both barrels. I remember we both cried all that night and all the next day, I begged and pleaded....reminded him of the promise he made to me before God and our family and friends, and did every other BAD dbing trick known to humankind......I have to say I didn't fully understand how deep and complicated a mess it was....somehow, I naively believed that if I just told him he was mistaken, that I truely did love and want him and that I would work on the things that made him unhappy, that he would say "oh, sorry dear, how could I have been so blind, of course I will immediately tell her to take a hike"

Now at least I can ROFL at my, shall we say, lack of understanding? I remember being blown away on Sunday when I figured out that oh, golly, gee whiz (duh) there was sex involved and she WANTED HIM....wanted him to leave me and marry her......ah yes, and then the sordid drama began!

I'll say one thing, it's taken every ounce of inner strength and stubborness I've had, then some, extra that God had to have thrown in, to get this far.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 07:27 PM
Hi again! yes, you are right, if they were at all suspicious they'd have done the path workup right then and there....but it's still a scary thing to wait out...

I hope you are taking this opportunity to pamper yourself....do something enjoyable just for Dawn!!!! probably something kind of tame right now, but I don't know, naps and books and being a little lazy sound like a good course of action for a little while to me! or chocolate or ice cream, hmmmmmmmm....or jewelry? see how carried away I could get? seriously, take care of yourself and be nice to yourself! you are such a sweety!
Posted By: 41dk Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 07:35 PM
Deb-

I had to laugh right out loud about the ice cream and chocolate! My H was sweet enough to buy me two pints of Ben & Jerry's and a huge Hershey bar when he went grocery shopping. He brought one pint of ice cream to my bedside the night after the surgery........I ate the whole damn thing! LOL

The next morning he looked in amazement at the empty container and said, "Oh my God, did you eat the candy bar too?" LOL

Dawn (thinking really hard about the other pint)
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/18/04 07:52 PM
ah, Dawn! I always knew you were a woman after my own heart! I'm LOL too....of course I would eat all the Ice cream and the chocolate and then ask for more! but, what the heck, we deserve to be indulged every so often!!!
You take care, and let me know the second you hear something!
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/19/04 05:09 PM
Not much to report today, except that I'm frustrated.....H is warm and friendly and considerate....BUT I WANT ROMANCE LIKE OW GOT.....When is it my turn?????? How and when do I ask for it????? Why the heck did he back off when he started that way?????? I know he's been under a lot of work stress, but I don't see that as an excuse. Is this something that comes with time? I am adamant about not letting us slide back into the complacent friends mode.........but I don't know what to do.
Posted By: 41dk Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/19/04 05:32 PM
Good Afternoon Deb-

Hey! You are making a big assumption that the OW "got it good". LOL I very much doubt that she got it all that good when all the while your H was having a severe case of the guilts!

And....aren't you the same woman who just had an evening in front of the fireplace?! Hmmmmm Sounds romantic to me. (Well, ANYTHING sounds romantic to me at this point! LOL)

Maybe it's time to experiment and monitor again. (All the while being thankful for what you have! )

Maybe your H is in the mood to be pursued? Maybe he needs you to set the tone? Come up with an idea about maybe taking alternate weekends to come up with romantic outings? If he doesn't respond right away (or badly) give him time. He's just getting into his comfort zone right now.

Bananas and apples again this morning!

Dawn
Posted By: Nevanna Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/19/04 05:52 PM
Geeze, Deb, maybe he's scared too. How did you react in the past?

Anyway, might need to eeeeease him a little. Take the initiative, so he gets the hint. Or, just ask him to do something--nothing big at first. Maybe he just doesn't know that's what you want.
Posted By: MovingForward Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/19/04 05:58 PM
This is something I have been working on by trying to speak in his love language. Intimacy is slowly increasing. I think this is going to be a slow process. I'd love to go home and have him sweep me off my feet but I've come to realize its not going to happen until we BOTH feel more comfortable with each other.
Posted By: debcb Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/19/04 08:04 PM
Thanks Dawn and Nevanna and Moving Forward...I havent had much time to post today, so busy at work...Nevanna I did see you're having a tough time...hang in sweetie, I really think, having been there and done that more times than I can count, that it is a part of the healing process, the anxiety that comes flooding back when things are looking up. and it just bowls you over.

Moving Forward, I've been reading on your thread, and yes, it all sounds so familiar....I will try to post for you soon. Am I right that you and your H and OW are all co-workers? If so, been there and doing that....and it stinks!

Dawn...bannanas and apples again! You go Woman! yes, you're right, I need to focus on what I have, and Saturdays evening in front of the fireplace was H's doing, all I did was grab the 6-pack at the store...
I just know he used to right love letters to the OW, and it frosts my cookies so to speak. Where's mine? I know I sound like a 2 year old!

I'm also kind of stuggling this afternoon, because I maintain our in-house training records, and just got the documentation for one that was done this morning that I didn 't monitor....H and OW were both at that one....just bugs the heck out of me to have him in the same room with her with only 20 other people present........urp! I wish one of them would get another job. I did get an email from him that he had a good performance review and will get his raise...I know that's been weighing on his mind. Maybe his performance will improve in other areas now, you suppose? naughty me for thinking such a thing, guess I'm just kind of grumpy today.
Posted By: Nevanna Re: I'm having a tough day....... - 10/19/04 08:22 PM
Quote:

Nevanna I did see you're having a tough time...hang in sweetie, I really think, having been there and done that more times than I can count, that it is a part of the healing process, the anxiety that comes flooding back when things are looking up. and it just bowls you over.





Yes, I think so, too. Just not much fun when it happens.

I'm planning on getting a new tattoo soon (based on H's name in Mayan hierglyphics ), so that should be fun.

I keep thinking...at least I'm not angry anymore! Yay! Not obsessed with xrm and her nonsense. (And yes, she still calls...pretty much every five days.)

A thought...your H seemed to respond well, if I recall, when you did the mushy stuff toward him, too. Have you not done this as much with him lately?

And you are most definately right. It could be other stresses in his life, as well.
Posted By: debcb Oh, Crap! - 10/20/04 01:18 PM
The proverbial s--t hit the poverbial fan last night. Now I know why I've been so anxious, and why it's felt like H pulled back and why I'm not getting the little romantic touches anymore.

Yep, he's back with OW....I've had this nagging suspicion, and so far, darn it, those have never been wrong. There've been a lot of little red flags that I tried to put out of my mind.....like last months phone bill being 2x what it usually is, like his last "gas tank fill up" being double the amount it ususally is (this was last weekend). Like the change in tone of his emails from mushy to business like. Going to do paper work on the weekends again. Couple of weeks ago he said he didnt know if he wanted to go on our upcoming trip. no handholding. Ow's smart a$$ smirk when I see her at religious ed.....Oh, yeah, there were a lot of reasons why my anxieties wouldnt let up.

Yesterday evening when I got home the "red alert" sign was flashing in my brain, so I went downstairs where he always calls her and there were not one but 2 phone cards. They havent been there I don't think any longer than this weekend.

He didnt get home from work until 8:30 last night; I'd had it and I confronted him, he lied that they'd been there for a long time....I didnt' accept that, and he finally admitted that yes, he's calling her "but only sometimes" (WTF???) and he insisted that he did go to the office and not to see her. I don't believe that for a minute either.

Neither of us slept all night, I'm thinking I may go home sick today. He actually was giving me his same old crap about how I havent really changed, it's all a fake, it was my fault he was so miserable, blah blah blah blah....How she's just such a good friend and when you've been so close to someone you can't just shut it off like that, but she's moving on with her life.....yeah, right. He kept getting angry that I didnt believe he wasnt seeing her...sorry, I've heard that song so many times before I know when it's off key.

I got up at 5:30 just after he did and took the dog for a walk....he was in the basement on the phone when I left the house.

I told him he knew better than I, it's his profession after all, that you can't have a relationship with 3 people in it, that I couldnt live like this the rest of my life, that I've told him that before....I got his old song and dance about why do I think he's still there if he doesnt want this to work out......I said because of S and he didn't answer. I told him several times I couldnt live like this the rest of my life, he said well I guess you've made your choice then and launched into a tirade about how my "unconditional love" was just a facade....I asked him if he still takes his ring off when he's around her, he said "no"....said I probably can tell what's going on by the way he changes, that after all these years I know him well....
I told him that I hadnt made the choice but that I believed he had, since I've told him that I cant go on like this and it didnt make any difference...he said that he hadnt said it didnt make any difference. Said that he hadnt considered her still in the relationship since they are "just friends" .....yeah right....and of course I made a strong point of saying they cant' be friends, and he got angry that I read a manual and now I think I know everything.

I did make the mistake of telling him that I consulted an attorney months ago, that really set him off about how I was just a fake....

He left the house while I was waiting with S for the school bus, nonchalantly said "see ya" as though nothing had happend....so he'd have gotten to work nice and early....I had to go back to the bed room to get some stuff, and I noticed he did evidently wear his wedding ring.

I'm just devasted. no other words describe it. wow, and the day after the bomb-day anniversary, too! I just don't know how much longer I can keep having my heart dashed on the rocks like this, over and over. I don't know what's wrong with me that I keep going back for more. I don't have a clue what to do now. I want so much to email him and tell him I love him but am devastated, but that would be a very stupid thing to do. I sure miss having some kisses and snuggles.
Posted By: debcb Re: Oh, Crap! - 10/20/04 01:24 PM
Hi Nevanna, I appreciate your support. You know, I've been trying to be as "mushy" and romantic with H as I had been, but now again lately he's been real cool and telling me he doesnt want to hear it. This morning he said again how insulting it is because it's fake and it makes him sick to his stomach. One more red flag, I guess
Posted By: debcb Re: Oh, Crap! - 10/20/04 01:30 PM
It's like he's back in the wildest throes of MLC again, last night and this morning I got to hear all over again about how controlling I am....I asked what he wanted, he yelled at me "I wanna be the boss!"...got to hear more about how I run his life and control him this morning as well. Heard all about how miserable he is because I control his every move...
Just last weekend I asked him what he needed to be happy in our R, (my exact words) and he said nothing....now he doesnt even remember me asking him.

I am just blown away.........................
Posted By: sage Re: Oh, Crap! - 10/20/04 01:30 PM
Ah, Deb, I'm sorry that h is still in contact with OW. His reaction is as expected (how "you'll never change") but it sounds like you handled it really, really well.

MHO is to go into "listening mode" -- I wouldn't actively pursue h with the topic nor would I be reactive to him but I'd listen as hard as I could to weed out the "truth" of what keeps drawing him to her from the BS that he's using to distract you (or distract himself?).

I note that you said he's "back with OW" -- can you temper that to say he's "back in contact" with her? Not saying that's acceptable or OK but it does leave some room and doesn't drive the both of you back into your polarized positions.

Here's to your strength and hard work and awesomeness!!!!!

Sage
Posted By: debcb Re: Oh, Crap! - 10/20/04 01:42 PM
Thanks Sage, I'm thinking i need to back off and not push the issue, but I've told him I'm not going to avoid going into certain rooms of my house because of what I might find (he didn't even bother to hide his stupid phone cards this time), and that I have no intention of avoiding asking questions that I feel like I deserve answers to because my asking angers him.

I was amazed last night, I did have the presence of mind to be able to step back and listen to what he was saying, and he was just all over the place with his rationalizations and distractions, trying to displace/transfer the focus from what he is chosing to do to my failings a person that "made" him do what hes doing, and how awful I was to him all those years (last night it was up from 10 bad years to all 25 years of our marriage, he was just the rebound guy)........It was interesting to observe that it really fuels his fire when I don't let him digress from the issue.

Wow, that is amazing how fast he can run right back to where he was. just blows me away.

Did this ever happen with your H when it looked like things were going so well?

I do need to bite my tongue though...when he went to call her this morning, I told him to tell "wonder woman" good morning for me.....later I asked him if wonder woman was having a good morning, he replied "how would I know" and I said well I'm sure she told you when you were on the phone"
Childish adolescent sniping I know. at least I didnt call her a whore.
Posted By: debcb Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 01:51 PM
My mind is such a foggy mess today....I just got this email from H....
I cant think how I need to respond.

Deb; I hope you are functioning better than I am today, I’m really feeling tired. I want you to know that I realize that Aaron picked up the phone Monday and came in on my conversation with Donna. I had called her, as a friend and the conversation lasted less than 10 minutes. She was helping her daughter prepare for a test on ancient Egypt. I knew some of the terms and joked that Aaron really was the person to talk to. The conversation ended. I share that because you need to know that it isn’t romantic. I agree, it isn’t good for our relationship to continue to have contact with her. I guess the reason that I did was seeing how bad she was hurting, I was too. It seemed being friends was what we really missed the most and I thought we could be and slowly taper off as we adjusted to the new situation. She seems to have her priorities right, focused on Kat right now. She doesn’t want me coming in to Kat’s life if I’m not going to stay so really doesn’t want me around on Saturdays or Sundays, I agree with her. I apologize for and own my part in this mess. I was dishonest as I was having phone contact with her, though it has tapered off quite a bit. I didn’t realize that the contact was effecting my relationship with you. I guess I do feel some resentment at having to hurt someone I cared about, I realize that was my own doing but it spills at time back into all the past hurts that we were talking about last night. I feel resentment at having to lose someone who was supportive and really feed my ego at a time that I desperately needed it. Some of this has to do with just feeling like such a small, insignificant cog in the CKMHC wheel, no matter how good the work, it’s nothing. I could see my career was going nowhere. My peers getting jobs as supervisors, me same as 16 years ago, just an out patient therapist. Add in the ice in our relationship at the time and your comments about nobody wanting me, my depression and I was ready to feel like I was someone important, desired. When I shut the door on her it feels like I’ve thrown away that life line and I start to feel myself sinking down into the depression again, so I call her, I guess just looking for reassurance, that she still does care at some level, etc.. Perhaps none of this matters to you, as your issue is that it has to stop. I just wanted you to know it’s not because I hate you or that I am purposely trying to hurt or aggravate you. I did appreciate the effort you put into change, I believe it was helping. After last night I realize that it may have been time limited and more of a surface change than to your core, either way it was appreciated and I know took great effort and courage given this circumstance. I am interested in your thoughts, it was just not going any where last night and this morning as we were both too angry. I have learned that for the most part I’m better off shutting up when angry as I’ve nothing to offer that is constructive
Posted By: debcb Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 02:01 PM
any ideas?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6
Posted By: sage Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 02:01 PM
Wow. Deb, this letter is a BIG STEP for your h!! Do you see that? This letter combined with the "I just want to be the boss comment" is a goldmine of information and to me, a very positive sign.

My two cents is that I would send him a note back soon that says something like "It means everything to me that you shared your thoughts with me" -- or something much more lucid than that! IOW, I'd be fairly quick to respond positively (noting that he shared with you!) but I wouldn't go overboard before you've had a chance to strategize.

This is good stuff, I think.

Sage
Posted By: IAChild Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 02:05 PM
Deb,

I would suggest one of two things -- either go a little grey (wait a long time or don't respond at all), or do a 180. How would you have normally responded, and how can you 180 that?

Hang in there, kiddo! I know this must be making you nuts!
Posted By: IAChild Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 02:07 PM
Sage makes some good points here. (And I'm just a newbie and still learning... )

My sitch is different than yours (H had a one night stand with a woman he knew casually who lives in a different state. It happened when we were separated and happened out of anger - H thought I was cheating with a co-worker which I wasn't) but I have had the problem of the OW calling H periodically to see if we are still together and wanting to be his "friend" (this is how I found out about the ONS 6 months after we got back together. Her phone number was in H's cell). I didn't tell H he absolutely could not talk to her. I said I understand that you see her as an innocent party in all of this and that you don't want to hurt her feelings but how would you feel if our roles were reversed and I did what you did and the guy was still calling me after we got back together. Would you be comfortable with this? Would you trust me and believe that nothing was going on? How would you feel if all I did was try to get off the phone with him and didn't tell him point blank to stop calling me? It is obvious she is not taking the hint that you are no longer interested and every time you are polite you encourage her. H's response was you are right. If she ever calls again I will tell her to stop and I will not be polite about it. She hasn't called since June so I think she has finally got the hint (and trust me I check his cell phone. Everyone can beat me with a 2 x4 but it makes me feel more secure every time I find nothing). I think sharing with H how much it hurt me that he was being nice to her really helped. He was trying to be the nice guy not realizing that it was hurting me and my feelings need to come before OW's.


Posted By: debcb Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 02:21 PM
Thanks Sage and Martha H....I'm still thinking about my response but will say something, at least thanks and I'm thinking of him, soon....

Sage, yes I think this is big stuff but I thought we had worked through it before... I figured out by at least last spring that he wanted to be the boss, and thought I'd really stepped way back....I do think it's huge that he said he hadnt realize continued contact hurts our R....I am discouraged that he thinks the changes are surface changes. That's terribly discouraging.

Martha H, I'm not sure how I would have responded to this before, probably something along the lines that I appreciate his sharing with me, and my feelings in response to what he's said, trying to put them in a positive light.

I feel that it's important to let him know that S said not a word about the monday night phone call to me....which is true, he didn't. Do you concur that is important, or should I let it go? I'm still thinking on the rest of my response. I have a few minutes, because ordinarily I'd be in a meeting till about 10:30, and H is probably in an appointment.
Posted By: debcb Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 02:25 PM
Thanks Moving Forward. It's a huge puzzlement to me why my feelings don't seem to matter to H, or even S and/or D's....

It was interesting to note his comments about some of his distress being from his work sitch....I've always felt that was a good part of it. guess I was right about that as well
Posted By: Nevanna Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 03:20 PM
{{{debcb}}}

Ah honey, I know this sucks. But it doesn't help, and I mean really doesn't help, that they're still working together. (And he should have known better than to think it was okay for him to talk to her! Yeesh...)

I know, right now, he's not considering your feelings. Or anyone else's (besides OW), and I'm sorry. It does sound to me like you are getting a bunch of typical MLC/EA/A garbage, and it sucks. (I don't know how you managed to keep quiet and not demand he quit talking to her...I think I would have lost my cool! )

My practical advice? I agree with sage. She's right on about your H sharing now, and that's such a good thing. I agree, you should give him sort of response about "thank you for sharing" or something like that.

I also think there's a lot of good info in that message. Maybe not anything that you should directly respond to him about...but it gives you the key to why OW keeps creeping back in. She stroked his ego. She built him up.

Maybe it's time to fight fire with fire??

My suggestion would be to really surprise him when he gets home. And I mean in a good way. He's expecting you to give him the third degree when he gets home. Why not send your kid off, cook a nice steak dinner, and then tell him you're sorry he's had such a hard time at work? (If I recall, the whole steak dinner thing worked well in the past. )

And make sure you take some "you" time.

Here's some hugs to help you feel better.
Posted By: 41dk Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 03:37 PM
Deb-

My heart just dropped while reading your thread this morning. I couldn't be sorrier that your H is such as ass! WTF is wrong with him? He has happiness staring him right in the face and he turns away. Damn it.

Okay, sorry about that vent but...damn him! Deb, hon, this is not your fault. You are no more responsible for his actions than he is for yours. Do not let him push you back into old habits. You have come too far to allow that to happen.

I read his letter in amazement. It was so full of excuses and justifications. He never took responsibility for anything with out the all important "but". As far as his comments about "giving up OW"....well, frankly it sounded as if he was talking to his mother about having to give his playstation! In the letter he blames you, work...hell, he even blames OW "for boosting his ego".

Deb, the letter sounds like it comes from a man who feels absolutely powerless...like a leaf in the wind. He only thinks he his getting what he needs from OW. Her ego stroking is only a temporary fix. And by his very description of OW past behaviors he will never feel powerful with her. She is controlling him. Ahem, he is allowing her to control him!

Now, that said, I do think that the very act of writing the letter is a good sign. He is scared right now because you showed him your anger and threatened him about "not being able to go on like this". Did you notice that whenever you get so angry that you lose it he acts very contrite (for a while)?

Quote:

I did appreciate the effort you put into change, I believe it was helping. After last night I realize that it may have been time limited and more of a surface change than to your core, either way it was appreciated and I know took great effort and courage given this circumstance.




Okay, this was patronizing and hypocritical to say the least! However, there is value in this statement. In times of anger it appears that the old Deb surfaces. Okay. something to work on, no? (You and I both. )

As for writing him back. This is tricky. What do you want Deb? Are you willing to keep living this way, with H still having contact with OW? IF so, then I would think that a simple "thank you for writing" and a "I will give your words some thought" would be okay. I guess you could go as far as to validate some of the things that he said.

I hesitate to tell you what I really think that you should do.......but it involves going home early packing a bag for him and leaving it on the stoop. I can feel the DB pros getting ready to whack me. That's okay.

I view this MLC maddness as a blame game. Seems they turn into frustrated children during this time. And like a frustrated child they will blame anyone but themselves for their lot in life without ever wondering what they themselves can do to change it. And some of them also think that this is the time to indulge themselves in whatever way they see fit without regard for their loved one's feelings....because their spouse, after all, is to blame for their behavior.

I think that you have to take yourself out of the equation in order for the WAS to realize that, Hey!, maybe it is my own responsibility afterall. A lot of them do us a favor (IMHO) by walking away. The time away from us allows them to realize that they are just as miserable with us as without us. And it gives us a chance to work on ourselves without them staring over our shoulder constantly, waiting for us to mess up.

Okay, this is getting kind of wordy. Sorry. I just think that you gave him space while he was still in the home to make these realizations...it didn't happen...yet. I know that you are afraid to ask him to leave. I do not blame you in the least.

What about doing a modified LRT? Turn the tables on him and tell him that you need some space? Tell him that you need some time to decide what it is that you want out of life. Then go on out an get a life! Go dark, even though he will still be in the home. Let him twist in the wind for a while.

Okay, Deb. I will check in with you later today. Hang in there and CHIN UP, BE PROUD.

Dawn
Posted By: Nevanna Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 03:49 PM
Dawn, you just said exactly what I was thinking, but was afraid it was bad DB advice...
Should I send this (still havent replied, ought to do something)
Thanks for the email, I appreciate your sharing with me more than I can tell you, and I know it's hard. I'm not doing very well today either, in fact getting hit by a truck would probably improve my functioning, so I'm not sure anything I say will make much sense, and I pray it doesnt come out wrong.
I do want you to know that Aaron didn't say a word to me about the phone call, nor did I ask him.

I'm not quite sure wht to say about your feelings that the changes i'm working on are superficial. I'm trying to work at what I decided I had to do to get back to who I really am. I truely was miserable, although I'm not sure you believe that. I'm not going to live that way again, and in the process of trying to decide how I got so fard down and what to do about it, I came up with some things that I needed to do diferently and I'm working on them. Certainly with less than stellar results and a good deal of back slikding, but theyre things I must do & have no intention of giving up. . That doesnt mean progress will always be steady, or that I will ever approach perfet, unfortunately.

I realize it is painful for both of you, and for you to see her that way and feel responsible for it. I also knowthat it isnt possible to "be friends" without maintaining an emotional connection. That emotional connection is the basis for all the others, and maintaining it, as you've said, keeps the door open a crack and makes it possible to easily slip back through it. That constantly looming possibility casts a pall over the other relationship that will always be there.

My personal experience has been that the pain never goes away as long as there is an "active friendship" either.

From my perspective, it's devastatingly painful to feel so over joyed and excited at what we can rebuild together when you tell me that's where you're at, only to have that taken away. You see, in order to feel that joy, I have to open myself up to how much I do care, and I have to trust what you "put out there" in order to move forward. Thats a really hard thing for me to do anyway because of past experiences. Then when that all goes out the window, or it becomes obvious it never really was, the pain is indescribable, and it gets worse and worse every thime it happens until other alternatives start to look like less painful options. Then I start to believe that has to be the goal behind it all anyway, so it's just an exercise in futility and masochism. Then I start to wonder what is wrong with someone (me) who willing to let themself be put through this over and over again....I mean, what kind of a "core" can a person have who does that? especially when it happened years ago and I swore then I would never do it again.

You said in your email "perhaps none of this matters to you". It matters a great deal to me, it's huge in my life. I do love you as I have never loved anyone else. I truely believe we could build a great relationship. I made a choice to commit to working on that with all I have to give, but it can only work in the long run if that is your choice as well. I'm very much aware that it's up to you to make that choice.

You made the comment that "I did appreciate your efforts/it was helping"....past tense?

I love you
Deb
Posted By: 41dk Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 03:56 PM
Nevana,

AHHHHHHHHH, thanks so much for releaving me of my panic attack! My heart started the irregular beat as soon as I hit the send button.

Dawn
Posted By: debcb Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 04:05 PM
Hey Dawn and Nevanna, bad dbing as it is, Old Deb is Roaring right now and frankly she wants to kick his a$$ to the moon.......

I don't know, I'm really at the point where I'm not sure about NOT throwing him out....in the night last night, I acutally told him I thought he should go to her....he said "if that's what you want"....told him it wasnt but that if she was important enough for him to give up everything for, that's where he needs to be.

She certainly is controlling him, and he is letting her. She is SO manipulative.......and oh so wonderful in his eyes. again. His life line to happiness from his misery-producing skank of a wife.
Deb-

IMHO, No. I don't think that you should send this one. I do like the first pharagraph and the last, with the exception of the last sentence. Because, Deb, it's not up to him to make the choice...the choice is and always has been yours. And somehow, given what I know of your H, I think he is waiting for you to make the choice.

I just think that you need a firmer approach. More tough love and less self-criticism. ???

Dawn
Posted By: debcb Send?????? - 10/20/04 04:13 PM
^^^^^not send? edit? or just go choke him and then kick his behind?^^^^^^^
Posted By: 41dk Re: Send?????? - 10/20/04 04:14 PM
Choke him
Thanks Dawn, hmmmmmmmmm, I'll think on this...I was thinking that he needed to make the choice of whether he was or was not going to invest in working on our R....Is that not what came across or not a good thing to tell him?
Posted By: debcb Re: Send?????? - 10/20/04 04:17 PM
choke and...........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: IAChild Re: Help quick how do I respond to this? - 10/20/04 04:21 PM
Deb, I don't know about your email...

I sensed a lot of negativity in it. As I've seen here so many times before, when in doubt, do nothing. I know you are upset. I know how very hard this is. Maybe it would be best not to reply at all, at least not until you are more centered and less upset.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

-m
Deb-

Will attempt a fast edit. All MHO, of course.


Thanks for the email, I appreciate your sharing with me more than I can tell you, and I know it's hard. I do want you to know that Aaron didn't say a word to me about the phone call, nor did I ask him.

You said in your email "perhaps none of this matters to you". It matters a great deal to me, it's huge in my life. I do love you as I have never loved anyone else. I truely believe we could build a great relationship. I made a choice to commit to working on that with all I have to give.

I think, H, that I need some time to figure out what it is that I want.

As for last night, I do apologize for my harsh words. It seems the easiest path is always to slip back into old habits. You, I know, undestand this more than most. It is something that I work on constantly and will continue to work on no matter what happens between the two of us because I am happier this way.

Deb


?????


Deb-

He already knows that he has to make a choice. He is just too, excuse me, up his own ass to do it. You telling him is not going to make it happen. It just sounded like warning #2001, if you know what I mean.

Dawn
Posted By: Nevanna Re: Send?????? - 10/20/04 04:32 PM
Edit.

There's some good stuff, but leave out the middle part. Especially about how your changes are permanent and for you. He's going to hear "blah blah blah blah."

(I would want to choke him, too!!!!)

I can't say I never blew up at my H...because believe me, I did....

Maybe sit on it for awhile. See how you feel in a little bit.
Thanks Dawn, I think this feels like a good fit....I'll send it in a minute and see what happens. I'm still tempted to cancel a meeting and go home sick.
Posted By: debcb Re: Send?????? - 10/20/04 04:37 PM
thanks gals, you're sure right about the warning 2001 and the blah blah blah as far as permanent changes. Thank God there are people on this bb whose brains are functioning today.

I have to say, he seemed a little shook and taken aback when I told him I'd talked to an attorney months ago. I'm thinking I want some one with more of a "scorched earth" approach if it comes to that, however.
Posted By: Nevanna Re: Send?????? - 10/20/04 04:40 PM
Maybe Dawn is right...he does seem to really snap around when he thinks he's losing you.

If being nice doesn't work...well...maybe time to go a little dark. If nothing else, for your own sanity! He moves back and forth so fast, it's a wonder you don't get whiplash. LOL

My $.02? Maybe, for later on this weekend, make your own plans for you out of the house and doing something fun/pampering. You deserve it.
Deb-

I think you deserve it. Go on and go shopping! Wouldn't hurt if you got home after H either. Try to remember tonight to strive for inner peace and even keel. If H attempts to bring up the R, politely refuse to talk about it. If you ask for space then you need to act like you want it.

I will be thinking of you this evening. Take care.

Dawn
Thanks gals....I will take that all to heart. I just sent the email, according to the computer he hasnt read it yet....I am a snoop, huh?

Frankly Nevanna, I think I have a chronic case of whiplash. I swear I do nothing differently that precedes his changing directions like he does. I even said that this morning and he agreed (again)...
Lordy, if I don't focus on myself for awhile again, he's going to drive me nuts!
That SOB....I got a reply from him from the email....very short, said "what then may I ask brought all this to your attention?"....meaning if S didn't tell me and I didn't ask him....how'd I know????I shouldnt have, but I answered him. Told him as I'd mentioned before, I sensed him pulling back and noticed his gasoline being 2x what it was and then saw the cards in plain sight.
Geez, what a toad!

I should have just ignored that email. I wonder if I can recall it.
That SOB....I got a reply from him from the email....very short, said "what then may I ask brought all this to your attention?"....meaning if S didn't tell me and I didn't ask him....how'd I know????I shouldnt have, but I answered him. Told him as I'd mentioned before, I sensed him pulling back and noticed his gasoline being 2x what it was and then saw the cards in plain sight.
Geez, what a toad!

I should have just ignored that email. I wonder if I can recall it.
That SOB....I got a reply from him from the email....very short, said "what then may I ask brought all this to your attention?"....meaning if S didn't tell me and I didn't ask him....how'd I know????I shouldnt have, but I answered him. Told him as I'd mentioned before, I sensed him pulling back and noticed his gasoline being 2x what it was and then saw the cards in plain sight.
Geez, what a toad!

I should have just ignored that email. I wonder if I can recall it.
That SOB....I got a reply from him from the email....very short, said "what then may I ask brought all this to your attention?"....meaning if S didn't tell me and I didn't ask him....how'd I know????I shouldnt have, but I answered him. Told him as I'd mentioned before, I sensed him pulling back and noticed his gasoline being 2x what it was and then saw the cards in plain sight.
Geez, what a toad!

I should have just ignored that email. I wonder if I can recall it.
That SOB....I got a reply from him from the email....very short, said "what then may I ask brought all this to your attention?"....meaning if S didn't tell me and I didn't ask him....how'd I know????I shouldnt have, but I answered him. Told him as I'd mentioned before, I sensed him pulling back and noticed his gasoline being 2x what it was and then saw the cards in plain sight.
Geez, what a toad!

I should have just ignored that email. I wonder if I can recall it.
That SOB....I got a reply from him from the email....very short, said "what then may I ask brought all this to your attention?"....meaning if S didn't tell me and I didn't ask him....how'd I know????I shouldnt have, but I answered him. Told him as I'd mentioned before, I sensed him pulling back and noticed his gasoline being 2x what it was and then saw the cards in plain sight.
Geez, what a toad!

I should have just ignored that email. I wonder if I can recall it.
That SOB....I got a reply from him from the email....very short, said "what then may I ask brought all this to your attention?"....meaning if S didn't tell me and I didn't ask him....how'd I know????I shouldnt have, but I answered him. Told him as I'd mentioned before, I sensed him pulling back and noticed his gasoline being 2x what it was and then saw the cards in plain sight.
Geez, what a toad!

I should have just ignored that email. I wonder if I can recall it.
that's weird, I wonder how the last post copied itself 5 times?
Quote:

that's weird, I wonder how the last post copied itself 5 times?




maybe it was the BB gods just wanting the phase "that SOB" to be repeated over and over????

Sage

PS My 2 cents -- I don't think h's concern about how you found out should negate either his disclosure email or yours...
Deb -- You don't happen to be a Gemini, do you?

the cainercast for today:

Life is like an obstacle course. We are not, though, obliged to jump over them all. We have the option to size up an obstruction or a barrier and decide that it is too daunting or too dangerous. We don't lose anything when we decide to walk away from such a difficulty. Indeed, sometimes, we gain a great deal. The question now, is whether your current limitation is one you should try to overcome or one that you should accept. Soon you will know. Meanwhile, avoid wildly extreme reactions and overly decisive moves.


Sage
Deb,
Sorry to hear that he is allowed himself to get sucked back into OW's seedy world.

I have been reading your thread, though don't have much time to post to you. Plus, you seem to have it under control, even now.

Re: your changes. Boy I think I would tell him in no uncertain terms that these changes are YOURS, you have worked hard to make them and you will not allow anyone to tell you what or who you are. That if he chooses to believe otherwise, that is his prerogative.

He does have a curious way of believing that he is powerless in this whole situation.

Hope things get better tonight.

Hugs to you.
Oh Deb,

I woke up this am with this terrible feeling of spiritual heaviness, like all was not well with the universe. I was not really sure what that was all about but I do believe (without sounding whacked out) that on some level I must have felt your distress in addition to my own.

I can barely see straight, so I am not sure if I can comment or offer any good advice, I wish that I could just call you on the phone and talk this through.

My H said some of the same stuff to me over our dinner last night and repeated your H's control comments almost verbatim plus the part about my changes not not being genuine, plus he also threw in some stuff about me thinking that I was better than everyone else, esp OW. And added in some "things are never going to change."

This really blows but I am here for you.

Pam
Deb-

Agreeing with Sage on this one! LOL

Funny that his response was in the form of...Well, then how did you catch me? Sigh. Once again blaming, this time your son. How about a reply like this...."I caught you because you were doing it again, you stupid sob, nothing more complicated than that." Big LOL (This time I am just kidding!)

If you did recall it, great. If not, let it go and try not to let him engage you in R convo for a while.

Just shocks the hell out of me that these MLCer feel that they can say anything to you.

Thinking of a Dr. Philism here: You teach people how to treat you. Just a thought.

Dawn
deb:
I mostly lurk, but I just have to add that until your H realizes that you, not him, are in control of your life, he will continue to hold you hostage. It wasn't until I started telling my H things like "your threats don't work with me anymore", for example, did he start to "come around". Right now, he thinks he hold all of the cards, and until you show him otherwise - he will use it to his advantage. the old addage of "DROP THE ROPE" cannot be stressed enough. It took me a full year to do so, but I believe it was the tool that truly saved my marriage.

good luck Deb
Posted By: Pamila sending good thoughts - 10/21/04 09:48 AM
Deb,

I just wanted to let you know that you have been on my mind and in my prayers ever since I read your thread last night.

One thing I wanted to share is a little tidbit from my friend's therapist which is this:

Excessive emotion blocks thinking.

So girlfriend take it slow, you should not do anything out of anger or fear, hurt or betrayal. I know that you are feeling all of these things at this time, I have been there myself.

I m going to be out of the house and away from the computer today, but I send you a hug and I will check in when I can.

Pam
Posted By: MicheleTW Re: sending good thoughts - 10/21/04 12:02 PM
Deb, just to add one more voice to the mix. I agree that your H needs to be aware that the changes you have made are for you and not for him. How self-centered to think you'd become more yourself for his benefit! Sure, the positive changes you make in yourself change your environment in a positive way, but, honey, it's all about YOU!

Keep on keepin' on,
MicheleTW
Here are some hugs, hon...let us know how you are doing. We are all here for you.

Thanks Nevanna, I appreciate it. I really need some help to do some strategizing today. I'm at a very tough point I believe. Plus, being me, I may have royally screwed up this morning, or royally shoved things in the direction I want them to go. I can only hope I struck while the iron was hot, as the old old saying goes, although I know in one sense my timing was lousy. I'll post an update soon, but first want to respond to folks here. Just in case I get locked out, I've already started this new thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=791742&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1
Interesting how lockouts happen just when things are "hot", but I guess maybe that's logical.
Sage, I had to respond to this....I'm not a Gemini, I'm a Libra, BUT OW is a Gemini! Yikes????? I can't help but wonder if H's "how'd you know then" response was to the realization that he's spilled more beans than he needed to!

Quote:

Sage, I had to respond to this....I'm not a Gemini, I'm a Libra, BUT OW is a Gemini! Yikes????? I can't help but wonder if H's "how'd you know then" response was to the realization that he's spilled more beans than he needed to!






Oh, jeez...don't read TOO much into it! I think Cainer's "advice" is interesting even w/o the astrology part...for better or worse, one of the best DB strategies I learned was that "doing nothing" for a period of time was a reasonable and valuable option...I was such a DOER pre-bomb that it was almost impossible for me to fathom how NOT reacting could be powerful...but it sure can be.

I'm not excusing your h AT ALL and I hate the fact that your S get mired in the middle of this crap but TBH, as I said yesterday, I wouldn't backtrack completely because you think h disclosed all that stuff because he thought he was "caught". His email to you is chock full of info that he didn't have to disclose...

Sage
Ok Sage and Dawn and Cupcake and Pamila and Moving Forward and Nevanna and Micelle TW and Slowly....and all the rest of you who've helped me keep it somewhat together I'm gonna move over to my new thread and start posting there before this one locks up at a critical point.

I really need some help sorting things out and coming up with a plan today.
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