Hi,
My husband is in withdrawal. My bomb drop was in October 2019. Moved out in April 2021. He boomerangs back and forth. He comes home 3-4 days a week. We do not communicate. His monster during the pandemic was horrible. I have PTSD. It triggered my own stuff from my mom.
We have a mediation the following Monday. We had a trial last week. He then wrote me horrible texts and emails calling me a user because I asked him to invest in a stock that went through the roof years later. He said it was his money, not mine, henceforth, I am a user.
He came home two days later as nothing happened and walked our dogs and advised me how to handle them better. They are rotts and are very protective. They probably sensed his emotional instability and stepped up for him. They do the same with me when I am down. I have to get myself together when walking them.
He stopped walking our dogs two years ago. He ignores them 90% of the time. His spending time with them is DIFFERENT.
I told him thanks for thinking of caring.
In the court and this past weekend, he actually looked me in the eyes and held it.
One thing we had in common in court, was red eyes. We both cried.
Before this started in 2019 he came to bed and almost under me said, "Sammy, I am afraid of becoming angry like my dad." I was like that will never happen. I didn't know the storm coming.
I am at my witts end.
Not delusional. I know he still loves me. I feel his love. He's having an affair with someone on his job. He's had other affairs. I was in a depression with my dad, and two uncles dying back to back.
I am out and dealing with his stuff. I had to pick my battles.
Not sure what's my question. Maybe I am looking for a magic bullet to get him out of the tunnel.
When he left he was back to being mad at me Sunday.
He has shown signs he wants back in like leaving clues, however, he hasn't ended it with OW.
Can someone explain what late-stage withdrawal looks like and withdrawal into acceptance?
I may be all over the place, excuse me. Wanting to get some out.
Welcome! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting for you.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I am very sorry that circumstances have brought you here, but know that there are great people who have been there and are willing to help you.
There are no magic bullets.
Your mantra: I didn't cause this. I can't control this. I can't cure this.
Your best and only option is to put the focus on yourself: your healing, your life. I know that probably seems impossible right now, but try.
By focusing on yourself, the MLCr is left to play out the hand they've dealt themselves, without using you as a verbal punching bag or crutch.
By focusing on yourself you give yourself permission to heal. You discover who you are today. You know who you were before and during this relationship. Now it's time to find out who you are right now. What do you like? What have you always wanted to do but didn't for whatever reason? What are your core values? Who are you at your bedrock?
Find out the answers to these questions for your own wellbeing and healing.
Ask questions here. Read other people's stories.
You are not alone.
{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
Can someone explain what late-stage withdrawal looks like and withdrawal into acceptance?
If he is still in an active affair he is still in replay and not withdrawal.
Sorry
Good Morning Samoy
Welcome to the boards.
I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. You are among friends, some very kind folks with much hard earned wisdom who are happy to share and help.
Bomb drop was in October 2019. I realize that is three years ago. However, H is still running. If there is an affair partner present, they are still running.
I hear you that H is spending time with the dogs, after ignoring them for quite some time. MLCers do peek out of the tunnel and then dive back in. Dogs being the less hurt, and to him, less likely to make him feel bad for his actions, he would reach to them before others. This latest appears to be some movement is all, not an awakening or some such.
There is no magic bullet to awaken H. He is on his path and on his time, and you were not invited. His path and timeline has nothing to do with you. You didn’t break him, you cannot fix him.
Time and space. H needs both. Realize his path is an emotional one. He is running and deciding based on emotional pressures and drives. Any efforts from you, good intentioned as they be, will be further pressure to him and are likely to have a negative effect. At best your efforts would be neutral, mostly any efforts from the LBS prolongs the MLCer’s timeline.
Focus on you. Let go. Give him to God, or the universe, or fate, or whatever your personal belief is.
H is dropping clues and hints that he wants back in. And then he goes and gets mad again. You are seeing his mixed up world, his mixed up emotions. As a MLCer cyclically rises out of their immersive replay and running behaviours, they feel and often exhibit both “lives”. They have such pressures and conflicts within them; and they get angry and confused and lash out; and they get dragged back down and run again.
These peeks out of the tunnel are somewhat cyclic for a boomerang type MLCer. My XW is a vanisher and her peeks are much more hidden.
Once the crisis individual puts away their replay toys and ceases their running, they enter depression. Coming face to face with all they have done. Deep and dark depression. Plenty of crisis folk never face this and run til the end of their days.
For the few that face their darkness; withdrawal is a deeper depression and doorway to acceptance. Seeing all the damage to self and others; and formulating and acknowledging their responsibility in how to make amends. Withdrawal is a time of deep self reflection, when they will pull into themselves, like a chrysalis. They emerge better and begin the path of acceptance and finding peace within their own skin. For the successful, this doorway, from withdrawal to acceptance, closes as they pass through, putting replay forever behind them.
Samoy, this is a good space to vent and post and ask questions. I’m glad you got some of this out and in the open.
You mentioned mediation and trials. How far along the process are you? I suspect you have a L. Right? Ages of you and H? How long married?
Hope you have a peaceful day.
D
I know he still loves me. I feel his love. He's having an affair with someone on his job. He's had other affairs.
This isn’t love, honey. You deserve better. Ask yourself why you think a guy who cheats on you repeatedly is the partner you want?
Hey Samoy - I'm checking in on you. Please come back and post - we're here to help you. xo
Dear Samoy,
Sorry you had to find your way here as well.
How are you doing currently?
Samoy,
The withdraw stage of my husband's crisis lasts 2.5 years(July 2014 - Dec. 2016), at first year, living with him was true torment but I never asked him to move out. Eventually he moved out by May 2015 and I learned and started to get a life of my own.
There was one whole year, we did not talk, we did not meet, few text only. He asked for time and space (according to him; I never gave him those and he felt painful living with me).
I came here, did a lot of study, there are many articles that I read again and again.
Currently, man in crisis has no ability to love anyone. So do not pay attention to what he said, what he is doing, the affair, the other woman.
Get a life, go to church. Let him go (just temporarily), soon, he will learn to face his own problem instead finding other people to be blamed to.
He reached me at end of 2016, I was always calm and friendly when I see him. He spent 4 years to settle down and last May, he moved home and stayed...
This is a marathon, I knew how difficult the process was, come here, vent and learn, there are many tools and great advice that you will find it useful during his crisis.
'you did not break him thus you can not fix him' I'll never forget this !
Samoy,
The withdraw stage of my husband's crisis lasts 2.5 years(July 2014 - Dec. 2016), at first year, living with him was true torment but I never asked him to move out. Eventually he moved out by May 2015 and I learned and started to get a life of my own.
There was one whole year, we did not talk, we did not meet, few text only. He asked for time and space (according to him; I never gave him those and he felt painful living with me).
I came here, did a lot of study, there are many articles that I read again and again.
Currently, man in crisis has no ability to love anyone. So do not pay attention to what he said, what he is doing, the affair, the other woman.
Get a life, go to church. Let him go (just temporarily), soon, he will learn to face his own problem instead finding other people to be blamed to.
He reached me at end of 2016, I was always calm and friendly when I see him. He spent 4 years to settle down and last May, he moved home and stayed...
This is a marathon, I knew how difficult the process was, come here, vent and learn, there are many tools and great advice that you will find it useful during his crisis.
'you did not break him thus you can not fix him' I'll never forget this !
I second each and everything Babe said. And add to that that Babe is a saint and it worked out. But I think I was a bit of a saint and I realized that my MLCer actually had NPD all along and it didn't work out and never would. You have no way of knowing except the passage of time. So build a life you want for yourself and set a date in the future you will think about it again. Except for settling finances, try not to think about H whenever you can think about something else until that time.
Hi guys,
Thanks for all of your replies. I write this in tears. I had a hard time finding my own thread. I hope i can find it again.
We are waiting for the judge to make her decision then it is a wrap. I tried as long as i can in hopes he will come out. He has not, yet.
We, my dogs and I, have to move out soon. This is his house. My heart aches. He's, actually his family is pressuring him to do things that will drive me out. I will not say exactly as he or someone he knows might find this sight and know.
He is doing something that he knows plays on my mental security with a past experience. He used the word, "we are planning xyz." meaning he and his family.
I feel so alone as ALL OF MY FRIENDS ARE GOING THROUGH THIS IN SOME FORM. I have no one to lean on to heal or feel safe.
My family is of NO HELP.
I have done no contact. When he moved out I did not beg, follow or search him out. I do not reach out to him. I wrote him 4 letters that told my hurt over the time that all of this started and that is it.
After our trial, he wrote me a text and called me a user when I gave him advice that he all later hit or later will show a profit. He did none.
I am working on starting my own company and he is upset that I cut him out. He's done so much to hurt me and he has this perspective that he is entitled to.
In the letter, he said he wants his life back. I have nothing to do with his life. He is navigating all that is going on. I replied, "thank you for sharing your truths."
I still wear my ring when I go out and he's not around.
He and his family has done things to provoke me. I do not react. I feel so hurt. I am all alone in this valley. I have no one to turn to. NO ONE.
ALL MY FRIENDS ARE GOING THROUGH THIS! I found out the ONE person I've been going to is not going through a divorce and has been monstering his wife. He said his wife said she was scared to come home because she didn't know what she was walking into. This is after I saw him hemmed up with a younger woman in public. I WAS SHOCKED. STILL AM.
He has been a source of information and solace. I didn't know he was in the tunnel too ALL WHILE I WAS CONFIDING IN HIM. I have known him for decades. He actually proposed an affair with me, I was like MOFO! and I let it go.
I feel lost! My dad and uncles passed. I lost my husband and now i lost the one person who had my back since my 20s. I feel lost! I feel scared!
I heard they ramp up before they exit withdrawal. I don't know if all of what he's doing now is a ramp-up. I don't want to be specific to not give it away if others find themselves here as I KNOW SO MANY WHO ARE GOING THROUGH THIS.
I do not know what to do. Like my friend said about his wife, she said she felt frozen. I feel frozen. I am scraping in the dark finding my way.
I am falling apart. I have to find my way out of here in the next few months with my dogs and put together my stuff for my company to make it run, with God's grace.
I have no one to talk to. No one.
I present a calm face to all and I am dying inside. I am dying. I miss the man i married. I know he's gone.
I do not know if OW is still around. I think he was messing up at work and he was or still is placed on suspension, working or put to the side.
The summer is his time to shine at his job. He runs the conventions. He was not in ONE picture at any of the conventions. He is usually present. I realized that his work phone has been radio silent this entire year. NOT usual.
His last convention, OW's been traveling with him. He added her to one of his cards. He rips up his bills and throws them away in the garbage. I saw their vacays.
For his job he vacays WAY TOO MUCH. He can't be working. He can't. IT is pressure and politics.
After his last convention, he came directly home, odd. He's been going wherever he stays. He used the word "stay."
He was home for 3 days. NOT LIKE HIM! HE ALWAYS WORKS. His work phone...DEAD, not one call.
He finally posted on his social media last month since, last year about his job and I heard him on a work zoom a few weeks ago. However, someone else was chairing the meeting he would have chaired/run.
He has not opened that credit card bill. The one that related to his last convention. He opened and paid all other bills. He left that bill. Another bill came for that card. Both are in the bill box.
I believe something happened at that convention. I think someone pulled his coat/card HARD. He ran to the backyard to take a call after that person called 3-4 times.
He was home for an entire week! a few weeks ago then 4 days this week. He took one zoom call. His work phone is still silent. It used to RING AALL THE TIME.
His boss and others, his "best friend/work wife" even have him at arm's length. They were attached at the hip. He helped her get a promotion that sent her flying and now he is nowhere near her.
It appears she's left him or separated herself from him because of whatever is going on or went on.
OW works in his company in a subordinate role.
I saw one picture of them and she was seated with the power brokers in the company with people around them. My husband who used to sit with those people was AT THE EDGE of the picture. FAR AWAY FROM HER.
So something is going on at work and something happened at that convention that made him run home to hide.
He comes home 3-4 days a week and leaves on the weekends. Monday to Wednesday or Thursday and NO WORK CALLS. They only work call I heard was from his secretary reminding him about our divorce hearing. She was laughing. She's new. His old secretary retired. He was about to miss that hearing.
His work phone used to ring from 8 am if not 7:30 am. His boss has YET TO CALL HIM. I HAVE NOT HEARD ONE PHONE CALL FROM HIS BOSS IN OVER A YEAR. He used to call him ALL THE TIME.
He also did not pay all of his part of the court fees. That is not like him. He's on it.
He's been in withdrawal for over a year. In April 2021 he moved out. After the last convention, he bought home a female motorcycle helmet, with a tag, and his.
I found my thread by accident. I will check it every day to hear from you guys on your perspective and to move forward.
I will read the threads.
we are married 13 years. We are at the end. We do not have kids, or joint property only alimony.
It's just numbers and years of maintenance, plus my car. He says he wants visitation rights without dogs. I'm like, let that go.
He and his family, mainly his family is fighting to push me out. I am and have been trying to stall. I did good, 3 years.
I am hoping he pops out. I sense he trying. He's sparking here and there. He took out the garbage, the dogs. He comes home sunday - wednesday/thursday.
The people who are pulling to keep us apart are pressuring him to end this already. they are scared he'll back out and reconcile. Why I said that, they are coming around when he's home.
I don't know. This is a lot and I am scared.
Question. My husband is probably in the below process, however, he has three very manipulative, toxic femininities around him who are manipulating him with all they have. THEY ARE HIS TRAUMA.
How will this affect his decision-making process? Will their toxic stuff get him stuck? Kill him? or Will he find the courage to see and fight them?
Has anyone dealt with this scenario?
AND AS WELL, THE men around him ARE ALL IN MLC. My husband had our barbecue without me. One of the toxic females finally got her shot at being me, she even got a duplicate of my engagement ring and wears it, at times.
When I came back that night, I wasn't invited. THE ONLY FEMALES above 40 were the two toxic females that are HIS TRAUMAM.
HOW MIGHT HE DEAL WITH THEM, AS THEY ARE HIS TRAUMA if he finds his way?
During this time, they will NOT communicate with ANYONE, not even their spouse, as they are drawn so far within, that no one can reach them. They MUST be allowed to continue, with NO interruptions, just like before-they will NOT come out until they are READY to come out.
Just like in Depression, they want to left alone, still processing their issues and the damage they have done to their spouse and their lives, and they make several decisions during this time concerning their lives, job, and marriage. But those WON'T be known UNTIL they break Withdrawal and talk to their spouse the first time
They are still secretive, somewhat asserting their privacy, much like a teen-ager, but during this time, they must be gently but firmly led along, and only when the time is right-a wrong word at the wrong time will cause them to "stick" within the tunnel.
I do not know. When I see this month's credit card, I will know, if he opens it. He didn't open last month's bill. The only bill. He gave her a card.
Something happened/went down at his last convention that sent him running home. I do not know.
AND you guys said believe very little of what he says. EVERYTHING HE SAYS HE FOLLOWS THROUGH BECAUSE OF THE COVEN OF TOXIC FEMINITY. My problem.
I'm back. I couldn't find my thread. it took a while and found it. I'm not closing this until i hear back from someone.
Sorry you are still on moderation and I was away for the holiday weekend.
All your posts are now released.
Thank you. what do you mean i was still on moderation? I was on hold and you released my post?
Thank you. what do you mean i was still on moderation? I was on hold and you released my post?
Yes that would be another way to say the same thing.
Keep posting.
Samoy,
Not sure when you tried to post all those - if it was spread out over the last month and a half or if it was all this weekend - but it definitely comes off as you spinning quite a bit. That's ok. It's understandable. This is a terrible process to go through, and it takes most people quite awhile to work through it.
Now that you're off moderation, instead of waiting a month or two try to post regularly, which will help in two ways: 1) it's therapeutic to write it down and get it out, and 2) others will start chiming in and offering support an advice.
I don't have the time now to read through your thread, so I'll respond more later, but the biggest item I observe is your focus on your H. What he's doing, how his work is going, is he still with OW...etc, etc. It's easier said than done, I know, but really try to put some effort on ignoring all the details of his life and instead focus on yourself. How can you improve your self, your life, and your situation? What areas do you control? Are you in IC? Have you started exercising? What is your GAL? What are yours 180s?
Hang in there...
Now that you're off moderation, instead of waiting a month or two try to post regularly
Just to clarify - the request to be off moderation is in place and it is now up to the administrator.
Michele is the only administrator at this time.
So everyone keep there fingers and toes crossed and hopefully it will all go smoothly.
Edit - OK she just let me know the release is completed - YAY!
I know he still loves me. I feel his love. He's having an affair with someone on his job. He's had other affairs.
This isn’t love, honey. You deserve better. Ask yourself why you think a guy who cheats on you repeatedly is the partner you want?
One thing I don't think I'll ever forget...I called up our MC after my now-ExW admitted the affair and said she wanted a divorce (only the 3rd session we had) and she said to me: "You should think about what it is about you that you'd want to be with someone who betrayed you." That really stuck with me.
We are waiting for the judge to make her decision then it is a wrap.
What is there to decide? Just the amount of alimony? That should be straightforward I'd imagine, no? It's usually a formula in the law. Is there a lot to disagree on? You said no kids and no marital property?
I tried as long as i can in hopes he will come out. He has not, yet.
It's time to let go. You're trying to hold on as much as possible, but you can't control it. Only letting go will give you freedom.
We, my dogs and I, have to move out soon. This is his house. My heart aches.
That's hard. Sorry.
actually his family is pressuring him to do things that will drive me out.
He and his family has done things to provoke me.
In most of these cases family sticks together regardless of who's the bad party but often feel at least sympathetic to the other person. Why do you think his family is so against you?
I feel so alone as ALL OF MY FRIENDS ARE GOING THROUGH THIS IN SOME FORM. I have no one to lean on to heal or feel safe.
I am all alone in this valley. I have no one to turn to. NO ONE.
I don't understand. Are you saying everyone you know is going through a divorce?
I have done no contact. When he moved out I did not beg, follow or search him out. I do not reach out to him.
Good.
I wrote him 4 letters that told my hurt over the time that all of this started and that is it.
You've said your peace. Now it's time to let go and move forward.
I feel lost! My dad and uncles passed. I lost my husband and now i lost the one person who had my back since my 20s. I feel lost! I feel scared!
That's a lot. Sorry Samoy. Hang in there.
I do not know if OW is still around. I think he was messing up at work and he was or still is placed on suspension, working or put to the side.
The summer is his time to shine at his job. He runs the conventions. He was not in ONE picture at any of the conventions. He is usually present. I realized that his work phone has been radio silent this entire year. NOT usual.
LOTS of focus here on H's work and speculation on his job performance and OW. It's hard, but try to ignore it - that's his problem now. Focus on you.
His last convention, OW's been traveling with him. He added her to one of his cards. He rips up his bills and throws them away in the garbage. I saw their vacays.
If he's using martial funds to pay for vacations with OW in many places you can recoup that money as part of the divorce. Did you save records and inform your attorney???
I believe something happened at that convention. I think someone pulled his coat/card HARD. He ran to the backyard to take a call after that person called 3-4 times.
He was home for an entire week! a few weeks ago then 4 days this week. He took one zoom call. His work phone is still silent. It used to RING AALL THE TIME.
His boss and others, his "best friend/work wife" even have him at arm's length. They were attached at the hip. He helped her get a promotion that sent her flying and now he is nowhere near her.
It appears she's left him or separated herself from him because of whatever is going on or went on.
OW works in his company in a subordinate role.
I saw one picture of them and she was seated with the power brokers in the company with people around them. My husband who used to sit with those people was AT THE EDGE of the picture. FAR AWAY FROM HER.
So something is going on at work and something happened at that convention that made him run home to hide.
Again, lots of focus on HIM and his employment and OW. What about you?
He also did not pay all of his part of the court fees. That is not like him. He's on it.
That's his problem now. Not yours. "Not your monkey, not your circus."
we are married 13 years. We are at the end. We do not have kids, or joint property only alimony.
Wouldn't any funds (checking, savings, 401k, IRA, house equity...etc) be martial property? Hope you're working with a lawyer to get what you're entitled to?
I am hoping he pops out. I sense he trying. He's sparking here and there.
Hope for the best but plan for the worst. He's most likely not going to all of a sudden change on a dime. Think LONG TERM, if at all.
The people who are pulling to keep us apart are pressuring him to end this already. they are scared he'll back out and reconcile.
If he's the one having affairs, why do you think they're scared he'll reconcile? What is your part in the demise of the marriage?
I do not know. When I see this month's credit card, I will know, if he opens it. He didn't open last month's bill. The only bill. He gave her a card.
Something happened/went down at his last convention that sent him running home. I do not know.
Again, if your H is spending money on vacations or gifts or giving OW a credit card there's a good chance you can recoup that money in the divorce. Your incomes and retirement accounts are typically marital property. Make sure your L is well aware of what's going on and has documentation to support it. I trust you're working with an L???
Hi BL42
some of those posts were responding to other posts. I didn't reply the correct way. I didn't reply to the person. I responded all this weekend when I was able to find my thread.
BL42 and anyone else
I have been focused on myself in the middle of the storm. Lost 30 pounds, became healthier, started a business, almost landed a better job, still hunting, praying, and going out with new friends. Making new friends. Not dating yet.
I don't know where he is, what he's doing. I know who because he left breadcrumbs. I didn't bite. Even before I knew about MLC. I knew something was off and it wasn't because of solely because of me.
I know he's in MLC, however, I am here hoping to find out where he is in this MLC journey, I believe he's in late withdrawal.
I heard in late withdrawal they ramp up the push towards the end of withdrawal. I think that is where he is. What are other signs of late withdrawal?
I don't want to be specific because anyone can find these posts and he/they will know who i am.
Samoy,
I have been focused on myself in the middle of the storm. Lost 30 pounds, became healthier, started a business, almost landed a better job, still hunting, praying, and going out with new friends. Making new friends.
Awesome! All good stuff. Keep it up!
If you've read a bunch of stories around here you'll recognize it's incredibly common to lose 20-30lbs during this time but then come back on after time. If you haven't already, get into a healthy eating and exercise routine to ensure you don't revert.
Good. You're almost certainly not ready. Wait a good while until you heal and improve yourself.
I know he's in MLC, however, I am here hoping to find out where he is in this MLC journey, I believe he's in late withdrawal.
I heard in late withdrawal they ramp up the push towards the end of withdrawal. I think that is where he is. What are other signs of late withdrawal?
I wouldn't spend time analyzing your husband and worrying about what stage he's in and what the turn around time is for change. Think LONG term. "It's a marathon not a sprint". It doesn't matter how you label him. It's his journey and you can't change it. Let him go, focus on yourself, and maybe he'll come back in the future.
I asked a bunch of questions above; your answers don't need to be specific enough that others would identify you:
Are you working with a L?
What are the unresolved items still at issue in the divorce?
Are you in IC?
Why do you think his side is sabotaging your marriage and don't want him to reconcile with you?
What was your contribution to the demise of the marriage?
What areas do you need to work on in relationships?
Hi Samoy,
Sorry you find yourself here and going through this process. The good news is it is a great place for support. We have all be through our own hell, but have come out the other side better and stronger versions of our previous selves.
If you get a chance, read this post:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2923056#Post2923056I wish you well during this most difficult time of your life.
Keep posting here and we will give you the support you need.
HUGS
Hi BL42,
I don't know how to reply like you did. Here goes.
I wouldn't spend time analyzing your husband and worrying about what stage he's in and what the turn around time is for change. Think LONG term. "It's a marathon not a sprint". It doesn't matter how you label him. It's his journey and you can't change it. Let him go, focus on yourself, and maybe he'll come back in the future.
I asked a bunch of questions above; your answers don't need to be specific enough that others would identify you:
Are you working with a L?
What are the unresolved items still at issue in the divorce?
Are you in IC?
Why do you think his side is sabotaging your marriage and don't want him to reconcile with you?
What was your contribution to the demise of the marriage?
What areas do you need to work on in relationships?
The D is in the lawyer's hands. Almost done. No lawyer. No kids. Spousal support.
Not sure what IC is.
They destroyed his first marriage. A bunch of toxic feminity. A few women who see my h as their husband and anyone who he loves is a threat to their "marriage." The sister did something really sick that showed me that she is his "real" wife. Her plan is for him and her to live together eventually.
If I say exactly what, then they will know. She ended her relationship with her boyfriend because she put my h above him. NUTS. I can go on.
My contribution was my communication skills SUCKED! I also didn't have my finances together. I kept my mouth shut when I saw messiness with his world that would jeopardize us and him.
I am a better communicator. I am learning how to effectively use "I, You, and We/us" well. I put up boundaries to the foolery and shenanigans and he flipped out over the advice from the coven fully threw him into MLC.
My finances are getting better.
My desire is to understand MORE about what's going on with my H. I was angry at him for a long time. When I found out about MLC, empathy set in. I have empathy, with boundaries.
I am working on and focusing on myself. From the start, I knew this was something about him before I knew about MLC.
I believe he's in Late Withdrawal. He changed his pattern. He's been gone for over 2 weeks. This is unusual for him. He was almost nonexistent at work, coasting and making mistakes. I saw in step up in a video at work to engage with his peers. He was almost on the fringe of work culture.
I almost thought he was on suspension for over a year, he was almost extinct with connecting with functions that were the norm.
I saw him re-engage recently, it was a struggle. I saw it.
After our trial, he monstered me with a fear of mine and boundary. I didn't react. So far he's backed off when he was speeding up the process to push my boundaries and make me emotionally unsafe. The coven, for the first time, came around our home. I killed them with kindness.
I think I answered your questions. I am here to understand him and what he's going through. I am working on me, forging on.
Ready to change. I am reading the threads. One of my issues is boundaries. My H and the coven used things that are triggers to break boundaries like, "it's about the kids." When it was about the games the adults played to structure foolery and shenanigans. "it's about..." fill in the blank.
They hid behind different nouns to break mine and our boundaries. I drew the line and here I am.
I'm reading the links. Thanks.
Samoy,
Are you working with a L? What are the unresolved items still at issue in the divorce?
The D is in the lawyer's hands. Almost done. No lawyer. No kids. Spousal support.
I'm still not clear here. You say "The D is in the lawyer's hands", but also "No lawyer". If you have not reviewed the terms with a lawyer that's specifically representing YOU (and not H) I would strongly recommend you do. If for nothing else as a peace of mind you're getting a fair deal under the law. No kids makes it simpler. No custody or child support to address. Are you sure the level of spousal support is appropriate under the law? What about assets? Are you getting half the equity in the house, cars, furniture, savings/checking/investments/retirement accounts?
AbbreviationsIC = Individual Counseling.
Why do you think his side is sabotaging your marriage and don't want him to reconcile with you?
They destroyed his first marriage. A bunch of toxic feminity. A few women who see my h as their husband and anyone who he loves is a threat to their "marriage." The sister did something really sick that showed me that she is his "real" wife. Her plan is for him and her to live together eventually.
If I say exactly what, then they will know. She ended her relationship with her boyfriend because she put my h above him. NUTS. I can go on.
You don't need to get into specifics. You're saying his sister and some of his female friends see themselves as married to him, and don't want him to have a W? If that is the case, will that EVER change going forward? Or would they always have this dynamic?
What was your contribution to the demise of the marriage? What areas do you need to work on in relationships?
My contribution was my communication skills SUCKED! I also didn't have my finances together.
So the two areas you've identified and are working on are: communication and finances?
My desire is to understand MORE about what's going on with my H.
Understood. But what I'm saying is don't bother. ONLY spend your energy on you.
I was angry at him for a long time.
Do you think that anger influenced your relationship?
When I found out about MLC, empathy set in. I have empathy, with boundaries.
Empathy and boundaries are good. What are your boundaries?
I am working on and focusing on myself.
Good. But...sounds like you're also spending a lot of time analyzing your H.
I believe he's in Late Withdrawal.
I almost thought he was on suspension for over a year
I saw him re-engage recently, it was a struggle. I saw it.
After our trial, he monstered me with a fear of mine and boundary.
Again, whether he's in "Late Withdrawal" or "Suspension" or "Monstering" whatever phase of MLC you think he may be is no relevant to what you should be doing. Stop spending time diagnosing him.
I am here to understand him and what he's going through.
What I'm recommending is don't waste your time on this. Instead focus on:
I am working on me, forging on.
Good! That's the only thing you should be doing.
BL42,
I am in IC.
I meant to say judge, not lawyer.
I am working on myself and bettering myself, why I am in IC, and what I am doing in all aspects of my life. I am working on bettering my responsibility for the breakdown of our marriage. All of that.
I am on this platform because it's supposed to give clarity on MLC. Tell me if I am incorrect. I get the sense this platform is only interested in the person writing narrative and that I should have no empathy or learn about what my H is going through.
Does that make sense?
If your spouse has cancer do you say, forget about her/him and whatever cancer they have, they'll deal with it? It's all about you working on yourself so if he/she gets better and you survive this you'll be strong.
Empathy with boundaries is a strength. Lack of empathy is a weakness.
I know I can't help him. I am seeking understanding. Is that wrong? Maybe this is the wrong platform to seek understanding and clarity.
Maybe you can not help me. Thanks for your help.
Samoy,
Good that you're in IC and working on all aspects of your life.
I'm not an expert in MLC and can't tell you about stages or help you work through the MLC process that perhaps some others here could, so hopefully they'll chime in.
It's just my take that regardless of whether your H has MLC or not - or what stage he's in - it could takes years for him to come around, so you're better off not spending your energy analyzing it and rather focus fully on your own self/life.
But maybe that's not the right take for you - it's only one person's opinion. Either way, I wish you the best through this difficult journey. Know that others here have gone through it. You're not alone and we're wishing you the best.
Samoy, I've caught up and am wondering how you're doing?
I will add onto BL's wise words about MLC. I wanted to know where my husband was in him MLC because I was trying to figure out how long it would take for him to snap out of it and come home.
Cheeseless tunnel.
There are a couple of issues with that line of thinking:
1. Trying to track the MLCr's progress is impossible. While every MLCr seems to follow a similar pattern, the truth is each one of them has a different reason for their crisis, and each will travel their path in their own time. It's truly different for each person, so it's impossible to know how long any of it will last.
2. The more we focus on the MLCr, the less time and energy we have to do the ONE major thing which could get their attention: GAL of our own.
3. GAL for ourselves is vital to our mental, emotional and spiritual wellbeing, especially while the MLCr is off in MLC land. GAL keeps us grounded, takes us out of the MLCr's chaos, gives us PEACE so we can sleep at night, to name a few things.
What I've learned is there's the hurt inflicted upon us by our spouse, then there's the steps we take to pick up where our spouse left off so we can inflict a whole lotta more pain upon ourselves. Don't do that.
xoxoxo
Bttrfly,
I agree to focus on self. I have and am. From day 1 of BD, I didn't know about MLC. I knew something was seriously wrong. I gave him space. I give him space. He left. I have no idea where he's at nor have I asked.
I have watched his unresolves circle him and watched him restructure his trauma.
I didn't understand what was going on. I watched helplessly. I watched him go into the tunnel. I watched it suck him in before my eyes. I didn't know what was going on. I could have allotted him empathy. I didn't. I didn't know what I was watching.
I am not sure how else to say I am focused and focusing on myself. I am not sure how else to say this to everyone here.
I am here for understanding what my h is going through in Withdrawal or Late withdrawal. I am not here to talk about myself that is what my IC and friends are for.
I am not watching where he is. I would like to understand it so I can communicate with him where he is at when we communicate. I came here hoping to understand what he is going through for empathy. I know I can't stop it. I can get information to communicate effectively, hoping.
If I had understood when he was going into the tunnel, I would have been able to communicate with him on that platform.
I was and still am hoping someone can fill me in on what happens in Late Withdrawal.
I am not here to talk about myself. I have a great support group for that and they are doing a great job. I leveled up in my life since then and am moving to level up AGAIN. Moving forward.
All I am asking is for someone to help me understand what he is going through.
IF NO ONE HERE CAN EXPLAIN Withdrawal and LATE STAGE WITHDRAWAL, then maybe someone can say, we don't know specifics about what they are going through. We only talk about ourselves, because that is what I am getting.
Focus on you. Do you. Let's talk about you.
If you guys do not know, maybe someone can say that and I will be oh, ok. Thanks.
Hello Samoy
There are three stages post replay - depression, withdrawal, and acceptance.
The exiting of the replay stage happens with an awakening. The MLCer wakes up from their running and replaying and making up for lost time. They awaken to what they’ve done and when/where they are.
During replay the MLCer has been running and has not considered anything of their turmoil and trauma. That’s what the replay stage is after all - reliving all they feel they missed out on; replaying their young lives. As we know, this is an emotional crisis and the MLCer needs to grow up from when they were stunted by their long ago authority figure.
With running ceasing, and awaking to their actions and deeds, a dark depression envelopes them. Everything they’ve done, all the bridges burnt, the affairs, the divorce, the spending, the drink, the drugs, the spending, and so on; it all come to the surface. And it is realized that none of it fixed them! They see all their failure and feel worthless.
Make no mistake, this is a dark and terrible burden they now have upon their shoulders. Extreme guilt and shame will consume them. They will have no or very little self respect. This is a grim path indeed. Unlike depression from other loss and grief (like a death), this cause is from their own hand; for they did all this.
They must brood and will spend much time silent and pondering. Many many hours may be spent looking out a window while they mull over things in their head.
This is a crisis. A terrible path not one would wish upon anyone. No one can fix this for the MLCer. No one can drag them out of this funk. The MLCer will find their way, or they won’t.
For those that do find the courage and strength to face their deeds and their pain, they enter withdrawal. This is the first time since way back when they were triggered and started down their crisis path that they actual face their pain and torment again.
This is the time for their deep introspection. Their deep look at how and why they did and could do all that they did. The reasons for why they feel like they do. This leg of their journey is very covert.
This stage will make or break them. Some rebel against what they know they need to do. Hopefully, they do realize the eventuality of things and do what needs to be done - rebuilding damaged and destroyed connections to their life and the people in their life.
Their lifting out of withdrawal heralds the entering of the final stage - acceptance. Like all stages there is no well defined delimitation boundary; one stage nebulously bleeds into the next. The start of acceptance is much like the exiting of withdrawal, coming face to face with the damage done to their lives, marriage, spouse, kids, etc; just more so, and not withering from it, nor running from it. In fact, accepting it.
Here is when a standing spouse’s inner work is fully tested. No judgements. No damning. No blaming. Support and allowing them the time and space to traverse this as they must.
Remember all the running behaviours were just a symptom of the crisis, not the crisis itself. The MLCer having reconciled their deeds, now reconciled their once hidden past and pain and trauma. They finally reconcile and accept their tortured past and the crisis.
There is will be mini rebellious moments, much like a teenager becoming an adult. For that is kind of what is going on.
Eventually the MLCer will settle and become comfortable in their own skin. Things will have changed for them. Internal convictions and beliefs will be altered.
For those that can walk their entire journey, the anguish they have lived with and endured for their crisis will now be gone. Their lives will have a marked peace about them. Their lives will be changed permanently, and they will never ever be the same again.
D
I was and still am hoping someone can fill me in on what happens in Late Withdrawal.
I am not here to talk about myself. I have a great support group for that and they are doing a great job. I leveled up in my life since then and am moving to level up AGAIN. Moving forward.
All I am asking is for someone to help me understand what he is going through.
IF NO ONE HERE CAN EXPLAIN Withdrawal and LATE STAGE WITHDRAWAL, then maybe someone can say, we don't know specifics about what they are going through. We only talk about ourselves, because that is what I am getting.
Focus on you. Do you. Let's talk about you.
If you guys do not know, maybe someone can say that and I will be oh, ok. Thanks.
We ask people to focus on themselves rather than the MLCr for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that often when the MLCr notices that their spouse is focused elsewhere they get a little bit of a shake up from their self-absorption and it can sometimes move them forward a bit.
MLC is the worst of the worst, imho. Every MLCr's timetable and process is different and there's no guarantee that the MLCr will ever complete the process and come out of the tunnel on the other side.
Also this is not a linear process. They often take one step forward and many steps back. We ask people to focus on themselves because it's a lot less painful for the LBS than trying to ride the bucking bronco of MLC.
Some helpful reading:
* The MLC chapter in Divorce Remedy (MWD's book)
Cadet's getting started thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2936150#Post2936150Anything by Amy C (former MLCr)
Anything from Sandi
Question: What indications has your husband shown that he is in late withdrawal? Knowing some behavioral examples might prompt more responses.
I do caution against trying to mind read to try to figure them out. Often an MLCr has no idea why they're doing what they're doing. My exh admitted to that on more than one occasion. Hope this helps you.
Bttfly: He moved out in May 2021. He goes back and forth from wherever "he is staying." Those were his words the only time he's mentioned moving out. I never asked where or etc...let him be.
After our last court appearance, he wrote me a scathing letter calling me all kinds of names and threatening to do something that would have made me feel unsafe. He knows full well my hurt and that would be a trigger. I didn't respond. I remained neutral. Did not protest.
He's since "postponed" that threat for a later date.
I don't think he was emotionally engaged at work and I think he was on some form of probation, as when he was home the normal work engagements stopped for a year.
After that trip, he seems to have re-engaged with work activities. Something happened, I believe, at that function that shook him.
I know about OW because like Hansel and Gretel he intentionally left clues. I did not bite. I know she's a symptom and refuse to give her and the fam any fuel.
He hasn't been the same since that work function, meaning as angry, mean and etc... He monstered me once, however, the main person(s) that triggers him was around. I remained calm in the situation and diffused it and by the time I left home, I saw empathy, anchor check/touch, and go.
The trigger person set up that scenario to trigger me. I heard their conversation and her pushing him to do it. I didn't bite.
He says hello to me more and he looks me more in the eyes or maybe I've started to look at him more as my life is moving and growing with God's rays of sunshine in the storm.
When I ask him the only question I ask in the morning when he is here, he responded, what's the word I am looking for...he didn't make me feel like I was annoying him. I didn't want to bolt after asking him. He said he needed to do it quickly and that's it. I didn't feel for the first time like I wanted to run in the opposite direction or bathroom and cry. I DIDN'T GET IN MY CAR AND CRY from the exchange, different.
Not sure if it is him or me.
He used to come home 3-4 days a week. He's gone more. I feel the lack of his presence. He shifted his routine.
August/September bills are piling up. It's not like him to miss two months in not paying or going through the bills.
In the last text he sent me about a month ago, he used the word "we" and he is very careful with his pronouns, very deliberate to not use any "we, or us," in years. I didn't respond to his text as it was more information than a question and I am very careful to not do any pushes.
He engages with our pet more.
I am all over the place with this. When he was here last, he was doing something that is very special to me, very. I didn't respond. Not sure if I was supposed to. This is the 2nd time he did this.
Not being specific to not tell on the net who I am. I hope you understand.
Time before last I walked into our bedroom and he hid his body from me. He wasn't naked. He had on clothes. He was about to try on clothes. I complimented him. He looked embarrassed. Like a kid, so vulnerable. I was confused, and hurt and wanted to protect him. I know this is his journey. I left the room and said nothing.
The last time he was home he was walking around with only his underwear on. I haven't seen him like that in way over a year, if not two, only in his underwear.
I actually heard him engage in a work call. First time in over a year last week. It felt like the man I used to know. It struck me that I hadn't heard that exchange in over a year. That used to be the norm. It stopped when MLC started.
I got used to the quiet or his monster overpowered the lack of work engagement.
I see he's trying to re-engage with work. I don't expect him back for 1-2 weeks if he does come it will be mid-week, I don't expect him to come home as I know things are upcoming in the next two weeks.
It is quiet. I feel that when he comes back, he will come back with the fury of a storm as things are churning within and around him out there.
Hope you can shed some light to help me prepare for when he comes back to stay the course and not get sucked into his circus, because it is a circus out there, full of clowns.
Thanks for any and all the help you can shed and enlighten.
In the welcome post that Job posted above, there is a link for
The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
Maybe start there...
Good luck...
Samoy thank you for your post. That's a lot to unpack and I'd be very confused by some of his behaviors as well. I've read it through a couple of times and my conclusion is that Mach's suggestion is a really good one. Check back in here after you read that link ... I think some of your questions will be answered through the reading - asking you to check back in because I think you'll have other questions after you've read it completely.
We're here for you.
Hope this helps.
Hi Samoy,
Just wanted to let you know that it might be interesting for you to read my story. There you can clearly see that my ex-H made progress very regularly and you could sometimes even distinguish the different stages he went through, but eventually to return completely to the former stages again, something that is also made clear here by the people who have a lot of knowledge of MLC, namely that the stages are not linear at all, so the bottom line is that you can never know in which phase of the process your H is.
For me the message was 'letting go completely' and living a life of my own, this apart from him. This has not only brought me happiness again, but also put a complete stop on the constant eager to analyze him.
The first 3 years I sincerely thought that we would definitely reconcile but the last 6 months I don't need a reconciliation anymore.
It is however ultimately his process and he and he alone can make sure he can fully get through it, which I sincerely hope for him.
I know how confusing it can be when they show signs of making progress. Please just read it and I think you'd better understand what I wanted to say here.
Take care!
bttrfly,
I read the links and it appears he's in withdrawal/replay/depression and cycling. I now have a better understanding of what's going on with my h. All I desired. I know I can't help him. This is his journey, from day one.
I believe it started back in 2016. That is when he started going left and I noticed the changes in him.
I saw him go into the tunnel. I actually saw him go into the tunnel. He's running with a pack of MLC. How he breaks from them is truly up to God. I have relinquished the rope. Now I have closure as to what is going on with him and what he's facing.
I've watched him restructure his childhood trauma and was confused as to why he did that, now I know. It is a must for him to become the man he will become, hopefully.
For me, clarity is something I always seek in any situation and I won't stop until I do. I did.
QUESTION: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW TO ACCESS OLD POST. How can I accomplish this feat?
QUESTION: I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW TO ACCESS OLD POST. How can I accomplish this feat?
Here are yours:
Threads Created by Samoy |
All Posts Made By SamoyTo find any user's threads & posts...click on their screen name, click "View Profile", click on the linked number above "Total Posts", and then click on "Threads Created" or "All Posts".
good for you for reading all the links. I know that was a lot of work, but it accomplished what I hoped it would for you in that you have the answers you sought. Sometimes the only way we can gain the clarity is by reading others' experiences, so we can then get a better frame of reference for our own sitch.
what old posts are you referring to? BL gave a good answer. We're here for you, in whatever capacity we can help. Hope you're well.
We are divorced. I am still living in his house. looking for a home. He is ramping up going back and forth between anger then remorse. It is head spinning.
Hello Samoy
(((Hugs)))
Seeing one’s divorce signed on paper is a gut punch; even when one knows it’s coming.
How long can you remain in his home. And his home? I’m guessing you got your portion of the equity?
Definitely head spinning these folks. Even after they get what they feel they want - divorce, freedom, etc. - they still aren’t happy. Angry to remorse and back to angry, yep it’s XH’s rollercoaster, let him ride it.
Good luck with your house hunting. Are you thinking of sticking in the neighborhood or looking to a different area/city? Moving/purchasing - stressful and exciting all at the same time.
Stand tall. You got this.
D
We are divorced. I am still living in his house. looking for a home. He is ramping up going back and forth between anger then remorse. It is head spinning.
I'm sorry to read about the D. we all come here hoping we can do something to reverse the course; so few are actually able to do that.
I vividly remember a particularly nasty phone call with my exh on the day our D was finalized.
He was so angry, throwing blame on me, saying he never wanted this and a whole lot of other nonsense. if you don't want a divorce you don't file for one, period. I'm sure the enormity and finality takes its toll on both parties, but it's no excuse to heap abuse.
The only important thing is how quickly can you move? can you find a temporary spot until you can find a more permanent location? getting away from the crazy will help you stabilize and find your own way and some well-deserved inner peace.
Samoy,
Sorry for the result. Hang in there.
Seeing one’s divorce signed on paper is a gut punch; even when one knows it’s coming.
Indeed.