Previous LinkDay 34 of Covid LD ( and now in LD until June? ugh...)
~j~ Oh how I love a new thread when it's a new beginning! Feeling good today. I'm SO thankful for this forum. I woke up this morning thinking how nice it was to have a calm departure from 00. One that was driven by kindness, rather than the opposite. Imagine having to depart on rocky terms, regretting things that might have been said in the heat of the moment. The high road was traveled and I feel good.
Last night, (see previous thread for details) I dropped H off at the airport. It was a nice and normal goodbye. D3 is use to her dad going away to work for long periods, so she'll be okay. No concept of time at this age really, especially during these times.
I was surprised by the hugs 00 gave me at the airport, but after all, we are still friends. That's why I reached out to him first, at the house, when I saw he was emotional & panicked. I felt he needed it and he took it. I know he's nervous, having to travel (not a direct flight either), and nervous going back to work after he does 14 days of quarantine.
When I got home from the airport, I had a long talk with Step-MIL. She's knows H very well, and she shares things with me. I shared with her the status of our D paperwork. She was surprised, but after talking about it more, we definitely believe 00 knew exactly what he was doing, by not completing it. And now he's got no way to complete this paperwork, as it has to be done with a notary, and he'll be gone for 7 months. He had the opportunity to complete it before he left; he claims they contacted him, but he refused to go at the time.. nervous to be in contact with people? Even so, he HAD the opportunity to finish what he SO badly seemed to want. Any way. There has been zero talk regarding this since.
This morning, I had many text msgs on my phone from 00. I had asked him to keep us updated, so we'd know he got to his destination okay. We chatted for a bit, via msg app. He's nervous and has a huge headache...no doubt! Good thing he's got 14 days to recover. No drinking while at work/sea. I ended the conversation with, "we're always here for you"... 00: "Thank you. Let me know if you need anything".
WOW... so nice to use a keyboard again!
Have a great day everyone. I hope this positive momentum continues. It's up to me.
I'm glad you had a good day Can. Now you are back to the part you know how to do and did so well previously. Live your life, take care of your sweet girl, no expectations of anything, no pursuit. Mirror his behavior. If there comes a time you know what you want or the status quo is holding you back, then act. Until then, just live. Enjoy the island, the weather, your new job (when the world opens).
I'm glad you had a good day Can. Now you are back to the part you know how to do and did so well previously. Live your life, take care of your sweet girl, no expectations of anything, no pursuit. Mirror his behavior. If there comes a time you know what you want or the status quo is holding you back, then act. Until then, just live. Enjoy the island, the weather, your new job (when the world opens).
Thanks Ownit. I need to keep the focus on me & D3. And you're right; I know how to do this part well. I just have to stop the wheels turning in my head about other stuff. Zero expectations. Keep the focus on me. And repeat..lol.
Day 38 (Covid/Stay-At-Home) ~j~ Being Positive IS up to ME. I was feeling positive, reminded myself I've been here before, many times. And then, 00 asked me to follow through with a favor I agreed to. The favor is to put a bag of his out for pick-up. No big deal right? That's what I keep telling myself. It's pretty much his last bag of clothes.
When he left, he didn't take everything he wanted. (He had the time, but didn't do it). I assumed he'd left work things behind that he wanted, so I said. "Don't worry, we can figure it out, get it sent to you while you're in quarantine." No big deal. Then he asked me if I'd go through the bag, see what was in there. Half work half civilian clothes (nice/dressy). Again, no big deal. He'll want the work clothes. Nope. He wants everything. Wow. Okay. No big deal right? These are just clothes? WHY do I care? It took everything in me not to send a snarky comment... I'd been used. Right? Here I am packing this mans bag up so it can be picked up and sent to him. Is that the bags final destination? Then the questions started brewing in my mind. Will he take it with him? Is he storing it somewhere for later? Is he sending it elsewhere? Then I just stopped thinking. IT's JUST A BAG.
He could of easily taken this bag with him and I would have no clue what's in it, other than more clothes, and the garage has less of his personal stuff in it. One bag of clothes left that don't matter and he still has some personal items here. But it hurt. Hurt that this stupid bag was him leaving me all over again like in February, but I helped pack the bag! Given this situation, I am in control of how I react. It's just a bag. I have to say that. He's made all the arrangements for it's pickup. I just stuck labels on and leave it out tomorrow. It's just a bag.
Being positive is up to me. How can I allow an object rule how I feel? I can't allow that. NO to that. It's just stuff and it's not my stuff. So what I helped out. I said I would. I think I'm over it. I talked to Step-MIL about it the other day, that I felt used. No wonder he was being so nice to me! Feeling like a fool that's been taken advantage of, but it's just a bag.
I'm sure I'm not alone here. Right? Please share. Sharing is caring!
Hope everyone is well. Venting here always helps.
I get it. How hard it is seeing his things leave the house.
How something of his can trigger all kinds of feelings.
How raw your emotions are.
My H packed up his things. Took a lot, but left a lot stored in our home.
He just recently asked for 2 of these things.
One last weekend.
One this weekend.
First time he asked for anything he’s left since he moved out 1 1/2 years ago.
It bothers me. I wonder what taking them means.
I get all emotional.
Than I stop myself and get on with my day.
Your H was rushed in his packing.
It’s probably as simple as he didn’t get it done.
I don’t believe he has any idea how taking care of this would affect you.
I don’t think they can think beyond their own needs.
It’s good you followed through with what you agreed to do.
We are human.
Let your thoughts and emotions spiral for a minute.
Than put it aside and get on with your day.
Day 39/COVID/stay-at-home order...
-J- The bag finally left today. H and I did more communicating over that stupid bag than we did while he was here for over a month in lock down! Feels that way; pretty accurate.
Last night he sent a reminder. This morning he was checking... we spent a couple of hours texting back and forth. Not always about the bag, about different things, ...except our situation... any way... It's been like that since he left. A lot of friendly texting, joking, a bit about D3.. Now I wonder if this will continue, now that the bag is gone. `Once it got picked up, just around dinner time, I sent my last text. He replied.. and that was it. Nothing else.
Of course I want to keep the friendly banter going, but I don't want to over do it ... so I will give him space. Follow his lead. It was so nice and so normal messaging back and forth... actually having a conversation...I let him lead of course. A few times I asked questions about how he was doing... nice that he was forth coming with his reply. At least it felt that way. There's always a cloud around what they say...
So what now? He goes to work, does his thing and hopefully, given the remote work that he does, he'll actually tell me when he goes. I know his work contacts, he gave me his new number & how to get in touch with him if need be. Last season, was literally zero casual contact. I was DB... so only emergencies. He did ask, why I never emailed... I just said I was giving him space.
I feels like I'm reliving letting go of him all over again. Is this how it is? They leave, you get over it, they come back and then you relive it again? Is this the roller coaster? Or a just a part of being the LBS.; having a spouse in MLC. This time his leaving, didn't hurt as much. Maybe, because our D isn't final? (papers were never filed... 00 didn't complete them.... so he says...) Is this silly of me to keep thinking about this fact? Yes the ow is in the picture, but he's still married!
Who knows and I shouldn't care what grand fantasy plans they have been thinking up. I secretly hope it all blows up. Last year, I didn't know about the ow/xgf. Now I do, and they are still active from a distance as far as I know. THANK YOU COVID for the travel restrictions! Karma at it's best. And with all that going on, I still look at the fact that 00 did not file. I hope that travel restrictions for certain countries stay in place for a while. aka Karma at work
Okay. I seriously need to GAL. Way too much time spent talking about 00. He's got more going on is all....lol... But seriously, while going through this, I think it's important to be real and be raw in the moment so others can learn & we can help each other navigate through this spiderweb of nonsense. I've got one friend who is working on filing for D (not MLC related... that I know of) and another friend who's having a rough go too... husband with PTSD .. she almost did D her H last year... I'm sure a lot of couples are going through things during these crazy Covid days. In a few years, we'll be saying... remember 2020?
That's enough blah blah from me. Up way late. Too much afternoon coffee.
Be well and Stay Safe. Keep Posting
Thanks for stopping by my thread, Can! You seem to be doing well. And yes, GAL is so very important. I have been working on improving myself. I am taking online classes. Our County library has free access to Lynda classes so I can take stuff on investing, leadership, etc while looking for work. I'm also watching lots of inspirational movies to help with my mindset while I am dealing with my MCL. We are still here together and for the most part it's really calm and peaceful. No alien or monster. I do know he's made me a villain but he won't tell me what I've done wrong.
I bet every little thing that goes away with him feels like him leaving all over again. I don't have that direct experience, but I know I'd feel similarly. I'm sorry about the ow. Mine won't admit that he still has feelings. He says what he's going through has nothing to do with her. I know he thinks that, but it's definitely messing up his mind. The limerence fog is relentless. And I also know they have to grieve. But that won't happen until they truly let go.
I sometimes wonder if they ever grieve for us? Or would they if they actually thought we were gone? Or did we just become the enemy and why would you cry for the enemy?
Either way, like HB says, we need to let go of the rope and focus on our own life. Why does that seem so hard sometimes?
I do know that we are all getting stronger. We have no choice. And as we do, we become better equipped to help others, empathize and have compassion for others. And learn, truly learn, how to master our own lives and happiness. I pray for that for all of us, really.
Blessings
~j~ Yesterday D3 got to video chat with her dad. It was nice. She asked about him, I text him & it happened as planned. Let's hope this type of communication continues. I don't bug D3 about talking to her dad/encourage or discourage, I think it's just something that should just come naturally. Am I right or wrong here? What have you all done?
As far as H communicating with D3, as in the past,an recently, I've let him know/told him, whenever he wants to talk with D3, we are always available to make that happen. That door is open for him, always. That's up to him.
After D3 & her dad finished up, H sent me pic of the sunset from his hotel room. I replied Beautiful View. Earlier txt msgs where business, and him checking up on me to see how my status with certain things are. Oh, and the usual set of txt he sends... links I might find useful & recipes. I don't like to cook. I think he's afraid D3 might starve while he's away.
All in all, I'm kind of coasting right now. A different limbo because of this Stay-At-Home order. Trying to take care of what I can. Sometimes I feel like I'm not doing enough for D3, feeling a bit of mommy guilt. But I do need to take care of my business as it's time sensitive. I do give her my full attention in the morning & explain mommy has "work" to do. (phone calls & emails). I'm sure she gets it, but so have a little guilt. Guess that's normal & I can make up for it when I'm done my "work".
Well, that's all for now.
Coasting Along, but not Alone.
Be well my DB friends!
Canbird, you sound peaceful in your latest update. No expectations of either H or yourself so you can't be disappointed. Smart. Mum guilt is normal even at the best of times, so cut yourself some slack during this quarantine. We're all just doing our best to keep our spirits up. Embrace the screentime and snacks!
It's nice for you that H is still communicating random things. It shows he still cares in some way, even if just as a friend.
I can't remember the last time my XH asked after S2. Actually, I can. It was when I stopped making the effort to keep him involved right after discovering OW. So October last year. Pretty sad. XH has never asked to video chat or phone call with S2, and S2 never asks, so I'm not too sure how I'd handle it. They see each other twice a week and every other Sunday, so maybe that's enough.
Anyway, keep coasting and posting
~j~ 00 is shipping out. He text a few details. Him & D3 did another video chat. I know it'll be a long long time before she sees him again, so I'm glad he was there for her, while he was free.
Now that I know of the ow/xgf, I'm not sure zero communication is the key. I almost wish I would of said more last year. I don't know if it would of made a difference. But I think I might just do like one email a week from D3's point of view. I didn't do anything like that last year & I regret it.
Should I ask him? I feel silly asking, it's his daughter!
Example: Hi..just wanted to ask....If D3 wants to talk to with you, can she send an email? Or mail something? I know it's not always possible for calls or video chats. Let me know what would be okay, which address to use. She'll be happy to hear from you too.
It's not my first boat ride so I know the drill. We're talking remote... D3 loves talking/sharing. Very expressive. If she wants to communicate I want to know what her options are, without ovet steping any boundaries, if there are any.
For her, I'm not going to sit and wait for him to reach out... I think with the situation the world is in, we need to just be in touch with our loved ones. I'll keep my distance, remain the friend. That's working..for now.
Thought?
Honestly in all forms is welcome.
Don’t ask him. Just let D communicate with him whoever and however she feels like it.
Can, this is the part:
Now that I know of the ow/xgf, I'm not sure zero communication is the key. I almost wish I would of said more last year. I don't know if it would of made a difference. But I think I might just do like one email a week from D3's point of view. I didn't do anything like that last year & I regret it.
that makes me question your motive (and I mean that in the nicest way, I often question my own motives for doing things and I personally believe it is a healthy habit to consider why one thinks or feels or acts a certain way).
It should make no difference in whether there is an OW or not in how you treat him or how you should respond to him. One thing I haven't wanted to raise for you, that I think you should be cognizant of, is that because this is a long-distance affair with his work situation, it will probably last longer. It can't get real for any length of time. They likely won't l live together for long periods. Therefore, less opportunity to take off the lurv goggles and see things for what they are.
Accordingly, I think (and this is my view of reading yours and other threads, and living with this a long time), the more he wonders what is going on with you, the less he knows about your life there, the better.
If you send him what you are talking about sending him for the reason you articulated yourself above, you are pursuing him. You are using your kid to do it, but it is still pursuit. KML is always spot on. If your D wants to talk to him, dial and hand her the phone. Other than that, let him make the lame effort to be a dad who is choosing to add yet more distance to his relationship with his D.
I hope I am not being too harsh, but you did solicit opinions. This is mine and mine alone. In time you will come to realize that you can't make him parent, you can't keep him in her life, and she will be fine growing up with a strong, caring mom who does make her a priority. For probably a long time he will be a guy she speaks to little and sees less.
Hello Can
If D3 wants to call or send something to Daddy, I’d just do it. Especially one way communication like emails, texts, letters, and such; H can open, read, and respond as he will. Phone calls and line video chats do take a bit of scheduling.
It is not your job to maintain or create the relationship between H and his daughter. It is your job not to destroy it.
Obviously, D3 is three. She is going to need some help in the logistics of long distance communicating. She is also going to need guidance in her growth. You are going to be involved when she asks why Dad did or said certain things. Just like if he was here, D3 would still have questions. Remember your job. Facilitate when D3 needs help. Validate and explain when D3 has concerns.
I wouldn’t send anything about a communication schedule or strategy. Let H see and feel and suggest something.
DnJ
Don’t ask him. Just let D communicate with him whoever and however she feels like it.
Thank you kml. I feel like this is more of the way to go, and I've been following D3's lead on this, whenever she likes. And because I know that communication by normal means isn't always possible (remote locations; can't always call/video chat,txt), we'll make do with whatever works whenever those moments come.
Hi Ownit... I appreciate your opinion and thank you for your honesty.
Now that I know of the ow/xgf, I'm not sure zero communication is the key. I almost wish I would of said more last year. I don't know if it would of made a difference. But I think I might just do like one email a week from D3's point of view. I didn't do anything like that last year & I regret it.
He didn't communicate that he wanted to hear from D3, and I didn't extend or initiate their communication either. Just sent B-Day & Father's Day cards/greetings. Maybe if I had done more, he would have reach out to HER more.
that makes me question your motive (and I mean that in the nicest way, I often question my own motives for doing things and I personally believe it is a healthy habit to consider why one thinks or feels or acts a certain way).
No motive; just want to keep him in the loop and not miss out or feel like he's missing out on her growing up.
It should make no difference in whether there is an OW or not in how you treat him or how you should respond to him.
You are 100% right. I've been communicating with him just fine. It does not make a difference.
One thing I haven't wanted to raise for you, that I think you should be cognizant of, is that because this is a long-distance affair with his work situation, it will probably last longer. It can't get real for any length of time. They likely won't l live together for long periods. Therefore, less opportunity to take off the luv goggles and see things for what they are.
This is how I see it..his affair... mostly fantasy land, and is appealing to his MLC state of mind. Adventure, excitement. A different life. Not the routine of being a father. It's his new life, his journey. I'm the mother of his child. His journey has nothing to do with me. We're just friends. I'm more like a nanny. A Super Nanny.
Accordingly, I think (and this is my view of reading yours and other threads, and living with this a long time), the more he wonders what is going on with you, the less he knows about your life there, the better.
Yes, I agree. The less he knows about me, and what's going on in my life, the better. Totally agree.
If you send him what you are talking about sending him for the reason you articulated yourself above, you are pursuing him. You are using your kid to do it, but it is still pursuit.
No motive; just want to keep him in the loop and not miss out or feel like he's missing out on her growing up. I never thought of it as pursuing him, but I can see how it might come off as such. I'd never want anyone to think I'm using my my child in this way. I totally get what you're saying here.
KML is always spot on. If your D wants to talk to him, dial and hand her the phone. Other than that, let him make the lame effort to be a dad who is choosing to add yet more distance to his relationship with his D.
Yes, I 100% agree with kml. I've been following D3s lead on communicating with her dad... It's not as easy as just dialing the phone and handing it over, (Time zones/remoteness/odd work schedule: He's the boss at work..) OH how I wish it was that easy) but I get the the gist of what you're saying
I hope I am not being too harsh, but you did solicit opinions. This is mine and mine alone. In time you will come to realize that you can't make him parent, you can't keep him in her life, and she will be fine growing up with a strong, caring mom who does make her a priority. For probably a long time he will be a guy she speaks to little and sees less.
(((Ownit))) I appreciate your comments, I truly do, and NEED to hear honest opinions, however they come. I know I can't make him parent, ( just like he can't make me parent.. We all have our own handbooks, right? Who wants to be told what to do, or how to do it..btw. I'm still working on my handbook..lol.. ) But seriously, you're right. It's not up to me. The father he wants to be is up to him. His journey.
Thank you DnJ
If D3 wants to call or send something to Daddy, I’d just do it. Especially one way communication like emails, texts, letters, and such; H can open, read, and respond as he will. Phone calls and line video chats do take a bit of scheduling.
JUST DO IT (emails, texts, letters, and such) Yes I agree. I've been following D3s lead on this. And yes; H can respond as he will.
It is not your job to maintain or create the relationship between H and his daughter. It is your job not to destroy it.
Indeed. It's not my job to maintain that relationship or any other relationships H has. I want D3 to have the best relationship possible with her dad. He knows, and I've told him, whenever he wants to talk with her, I will do whatever it takes to make that happen, always. He knows, and it's up to him. Dropping that rope,,,right here...
Obviously, D3 is three. She is going to need some help in the logistics of long distance communicating. She is also going to need guidance in her growth. You are going to be involved when she asks why Dad did or said certain things. Just like if he was here, D3 would still have questions. Remember your job. Facilitate when D3 needs help. Validate and explain when D3 has concerns.
Spoken like the loving father that you are. Your kids are lucky to have you. Such a BIG heart.
I wouldn’t send anything about a communication schedule or strategy. Let H see and feel and suggest something.
I'm glad I reached out here first. I will just keep things as they are, and follow D3's lead.
Thanks Again.
Maybe if I had done more, he would have reach out to HER more.
Nope. This is on him. He wasn’t sufficiently interested in being a parent to reach out more to her. Let him show you what kind of parent he’s going to be now. It’s not your job to manage his relationship with her. If he’s going to be a rotten parent you can’t fix that. And frankly, if he’s going to be a rotten parent, maybe it’s better your daughter doesn’t get more attached.
Btw my sister’s husband left when their daughter was 5. He’s a sociopath who has had several relationships since and who only put minimal effort into his relationship with his daughter. Sister remarried a good man who was a great stepdad to my niece. Now 30, niece considered step dad her dad (he died last year) and her bio father is called the “sperm donor” - she no longer speaks to him,
~j~ After my last post, I was more than pleasantly surprised to find multiple msgs, from H, in all forms (txt, video & pics.) first thing this morning. D3 was ELATED to have a personalized video msg from her dad. It was truly a wonderful sight to see her eyes light up & have me play it over and over. It was like Christmas.
**For the record, I had not asked him to communicate... this is ALL his doing, on his own**
A few one word txt... what his status was. Considerate & appreciated.
H continued the updates along the way as he traveled by air (beautiful photos) to his work/boat/home base for this season (from now until ...Oct/November... ) This schedule is normal.
I'm so happy that H took the time to share these moments with D3, as she asks so many questions and want's to know everything. Great to be able to show her what dads up to, without me having to ask. This is above and beyond any communication he's done in the past. I'm super impressed.
Good job dad. I'm really proud of you.
Maybe if I had done more, he would have reach out to HER more.
Nope. This is on him. He wasn’t sufficiently interested in being a parent to reach out more to her. Let him show you what kind of parent he’s going to be now. It’s not your job to manage his relationship with her. If he’s going to be a rotten parent you can’t fix that. And frankly, if he’s going to be a rotten parent, maybe it’s better your daughter doesn’t get more attached.
Spot on.
My first husband left me and my D3, 30 odd years ago. He chose to move over 3 hours away with his OW. SHE encouraged him to maintain contact with D.
I did nothing. Remember, in those days we only had a house phone, no emails or social media. The only thing I made sure to do was to never run him down in her presence.
She grew up to make her own mind up that he was a waste of space. He tries now........but she has always thought of my second H as her dad, as he brought her up from the age of four.
Your H has chosen this path, it’s for him to do the leg work with D. You are already doing your job of parenting, you can’t do his too.
After reading this, I couldn't wait to share it here. I'm not of any religion. Whatever lifts your spirits.
Me: Hey God.
God: Hello.....
Me: I'm falling apart. Can you put me back together?
God: I would rather not.
Me: Why?
God: Because you aren't a puzzle.
Me: What about all of the pieces of my life that are falling down onto the ground?
God: Let them stay there for a while. They fell off for a reason. Take some time and decide if you need any of those pieces back.
Me: You don't understand! I'm breaking down!
God: No - you don't understand. You are breaking through. What you are feeling are just growing pains. You are shedding the things and the people in your life that are holding you back. You aren't falling apart. You are falling into place. Relax. Take some deep breaths and allow those things you don't need anymore to fall off of you. Quit holding onto the pieces that don't fit you anymore. Let them fall off. Let them go.
Me: Once I start doing that, what will be left of me?
God: Only the very best pieces of you.
Me: I'm scared of changing.
God: I keep telling you - YOU AREN'T CHANGING!! YOU ARE BECOMING!
Me: Becoming who?
God: Becoming who I created you to be! A person of light and love and charity and hope and courage and joy and mercy and grace and compassion. I made you for more than the shallow pieces you have decided to adorn yourself with that you cling to with such greed and fear. Let those things fall off of you. I love you! Don't change! ... Become! Become! Become who I made you to be. I'm going to keep telling you this until you remember it.
Me: There goes another piece.
God: Yep. Let it be.
Me: So ... I'm not broken?
God: Of course Not! - but you are breaking like the dawn. It's a new day. Become!!!
~Author Unknown
After reading this, I couldn't wait to share it here. I'm not of any religion. Whatever lifts your spirits.
Me: Hey God.
God: Hello.....
Me: I'm falling apart. Can you put me back together?
God: I would rather not.
Me: Why?
God: Because you aren't a puzzle.
Me: What about all of the pieces of my life that are falling down onto the ground?
God: Let them stay there for a while. They fell off for a reason. Take some time and decide if you need any of those
pieces back.
Me: You don't understand! I'm breaking down!
God: No - you don't understand. You are breaking through. What you are feeling are just growing pains. You are shedding the things and the people in your life that are holding you back. You aren't falling apart. You are falling into place. Relax. Take some deep breaths and allow those things you don't need anymore to fall off of you. Quit holding onto the pieces that don't fit you anymore. Let them fall off. Let them go.
Me: Once I start doing that, what will be left of me?
God: Only the very best pieces of you.
Me: I'm scared of changing.
God: I keep telling you - YOU AREN'T CHANGING!! YOU ARE BECOMING!
Me: Becoming who?
God: Becoming who I created you to be! A person of light and love and charity and hope and courage and joy and mercy and grace and compassion. I made you for more than the shallow pieces you have decided to adorn yourself with that you cling to with such greed and fear. Let those things fall off of you. I love you! Don't change! ... Become! Become! Become who I made you to be. I'm going to keep telling you this until you remember it.
Me: There goes another piece.
God: Yep. Let it be.
Me: So ... I'm not broken?
God: Of course Not! - but you are breaking like the dawn. It's a new day. Become!!!
~Author Unknown
Love this!
It should be pinned at the top of the forum, it’s so very apt and uplifting.
Good Morning Can
That was indeed an uplifting read. Thank you for sharing it. What a great thing to read while looking out at the breaking dawn.
DnJ
~j~ As countries begin to slowly reopen, we've been staying-safe-at-home. The job I so badly wanted & got, has been on hold since our Stay-at-Home order was put into place. My employer & I have been in contact and they are slowly reopening, but not ready for everyone to return. It's in healthcare (dental). High to Very High Risk level, especially at this time. Although my position isn't front-line sort of speak, the environment is. During this lock down I never really thought about my health in the work place until now. Perhaps I was naive in thinking this virus would just slowly go away, and then I'd be welcomed into my new position, when it was safe. Last night I was reading the guidelines put into place for my industry. Just what you've been seeing in hospitals to a certain extent. I'm okay with staying-safe-at-home a little longer. Have been seriously rethinking jobs too. And I also have to rethink childcare for D3.
Besides all of the above, I know I'm not alone. I know there are others out there really struggling. We are safe and that gives me comfort.
The other virus (H mlc) is still active. I refer to my sitch as the virus within the virus. It's been tame. His mail still comes here, packages too. As normal, I tx a pic/send a msg and he says open it. *(Keep in mind, he's at sea/working remotely...*. Business as usual. And because this is business as usual, I didn't bother to ask.."What do you want me to do with your mail?" I just carried on like we've always done. I tell him what's here & he tells me what he needs. What I have done differently is step away, and not suggest what he should do next or ask what next. I know some of these packages are meant to go elsewhere, but I didn't ask. If it's that important to him, he'll remember.
Some of the mail for H, have come early for D3s B-Day. One BIG box (I know what it is!! Keeping it a secret from you all..lol..). The other day a card from H, to D3, came and I teared up. I had seen a kids B-day card in his room before he left, and assumed it had been filled out and left behind in a book he also bought for her. I looked in that book after he left & was a little disappointed when the card wasn't there. But really, she's a kid and wouldn't remember right? I'm a HUGE fan of cards, so I was very touched that H sent D3 a card.
I've also been sharing plans for D3s upcoming BDay with H. I had thought it over, if I should include him or not, and decided to share. Just wanting to keep him in the loop as to what we're doing. He actually suggested the idea (social distance greeting of sorts) and reminded me to get a box cake months ago... so yes, I shared with him. He was happy to get updates, but due to his work, might not be able to take part. And that's okay.
Next month hurricane season begins. Last year we dealt with fires. Who knows what tomorrow brings.
Keep on Keeping on
ps- H just emailed me.... he's bought replacement parts for something I've been wanting to fix.
Happy Mother's Day? I'd be FLOORED if a card came...lol... zero expectations... (I'm not HIS mother..lol..)
pss- And now a video he's captured of the wildlife where he is...
Love that he's sharing so much. ... I know it's for D3, and appreciate it.
The virus within the virus! Lol. So true. Both viruses seem prone to mutating. I’m glad for D3 that H is keeping in touch with her, glad she has a card from him. Happy Mother’s Day, Can! Do you have anything special planned for yourself?
The virus within the virus! Lol. So true. Both viruses seem prone to mutating. I’m glad for D3 that H is keeping in touch with her, glad she has a card from him. Happy Mother’s Day, Can! Do you have anything special planned for yourself?
Thanks cardinal. I'll be grilling a steak at some point. Using the grill is new for me. Sad but true. Part of my GAL experiences. And bread too! Love gardening as well. D3 makes a great helper.
~j~ Here we are, 2 months into our virus free life. Can I get an amen! Hope everyone is well. Prayers to those that need them.
D3 & I are well. I've been investing more time on myself. Meditation has been a new excercise for me and I'm excited at how it's energized me. My focus has really changed and I feel uplifted spiritually.
It's important that I continue on this path and go wherever it's taking me. I will stop in from time to time.
D3 is well. Things are slowly opening up here, as they are elsewhere. Covid life. We are being on the safer side of safe, keeping up with social distancing. I worry. Maybe too much. One day at a time right? Today we did our first drive by birthday greeting for D3s friend, who is 5 It was sweet & sad. The neighborhood houses and beyond had balloons & signs out. Such a nice gesture. A giant unicorn decorated their lawn. As we drove by, the birthday girls face lit up. More lined up behind ours. As we drove away, I saw in my rear view a few cars behind me passing off a gift bag. I felt horrible. It never dawned on me to get a gift. I know the childs mom, & she'll be fine, but what will the kid think!? Why did some give gifts and others not? I plan on mailing a card, with a giftcard. Or drop it in ther box.
As for D3, she gets it. We've been straight up with her about the pandemic. She wears her mask & is really good about it. It's just what you do. As birthdays have been happening, I've explained why they are different this year. I'm blessed to have such a positive kid. "You can still celebrate with family!". That's right kido. Oh I love her so. Soon to be D4!
H sends pic/vid/& more. We communicate. It's good.
Be well everyone.
((((HUGS)))))
Hi DB crew. Quick update. I am divorced. I am working. D4 is great & I am too.
More soon.
CanBird
I am glad you dropped back in for a short visit. You sound good. Please visit again and let us know how you and D4 are doing.
I was just thinking about you recently, CanBird! So good to hear you and D4 are doing well.
Hi Can
Glad to hear you are doing well!
My papers came in the mail Monday. The date stamped on the front was the month and day xH and I met, 12 years ago. Funny I thought. His copy was also sent here. Guess he hasn't changed his address yet.
New job started 2 weeks ago. It's been a LONG time since I've been working in dental office. Feels good to be working. Great distraction for sure. Wonderful cooworkers too. Amazingly kind boss.
D4 is doing well with mom working & having a nanny. I share one, and another kido is here. When she's done her school work, her & D4 play. Nice change.
Thinking it's time I move over to the Divorce area of the board. Really hope everyone is well and continues on strong.
Have a blessed day.
CanBird
CanBird,
I am so sorry about the date stamp. I guess he doesn't have a new address yet???
As for the new job...congratulations! Sounds like the perfect job and the people are easy to get along with. You have a good set up for your D4.
How are you doing and what are you doing for yourself in the way of GAL?
BTW, you can post anywhere...just because you are divorced, doesn't mean you have to move over the other forum, but I do understand.
Hugs to you and your D4. Both of you have come a long way and from now on...it's all about the two of you.
Have a great weekend!
It's crazy how many of us on this board and IRL end up being in court or having the D finalized or being served, etc., on anniversaries and birthdays. I had one particularly bad court appearance on my 20th wedding anniversary this year, and it took all my will power not to refer to it during the proceedings, esp since I am pro se and can say way more than I could when I had a L (who could say a lot and was too scared of the judge to say much of anything). I don't think the MLCers are doing it on purpose, but I definitely think it's not an accident. I think somehow it's like a way to really kill the thing they think is causing their pain.
My H also wouldn't change his address. I think he thought this would allow him to pretend he still had the right to move back in (for money reasons, not for marriage reasons, though who knows how their addled brain pathways work). And I kept asking him or his L to change it until I realized that it allowed me to learn things I might need to know -- e.g., when he started getting fines for collecting unemployment when he was employed. But it was much more peaceful once I submitted a change of address form myself, not only not to see his name anymore but because he was constantly calling my D11 (9 or 10 at the time) to find out where various things had gone -- e.g., his new credit card, license, etc., and then telling poor D things like -- I'm so mad at Mama! She is hiding my things!
After a while it hurts less. (((CanB)))))
The date stamped on the envelope was pure coincidence. Doesn't bother me, I think it's funny.
As for GAL, the new job I have is a great distraction. I'm not too concerned with my GAL activities. D4 takes priority. We say YES to playdates. That's a mama visit too. I've got a lot of other responsibilities around our property (yard,pool,rental unit) before I can play. I get it's important, but keeping things running smoothly gives me satisfaction too. I'm a homebody. Love my gardening. We do get out, safely. Mask on.
I had a few great conversations today with MIL & Step-MIL. My first conversation was with MIL. Started with a video chat between her & D4. Then I had a chance to chat. D4 was out of ear shot, but I asked MIL if I could call her, as to keep our conversation a bit more private. We kept the video on & mute.
I was honest and let her know the divorce was final and shared I didn't know where "Waldo" was. (New name for the X) I can only assume he was finishing his, out of state work, or done work and going home to his siblings & mom or going to EU to be with OW/xgf from his past. I was never really sure if MIL knew, but she does now. I thought Waldo told her, he had said once he may or may not have. Not sure. Well, as I was rambling on...the truth be told. Not the nitty gritty, but enough to let her know there was more to than Waldo's story than what he was tell. She was pissed. Shocked. His behavior all made more sense. And as I shared more details of the person he'd become, the not so nice guy wecuse to now, she was shaking her head in disappointment. He had become just like his dad, the not so nice parts. She was fuming. I thought she knew, and hey, maybe she did? Either way, I can talk openly about with her now.
My conversation with StepMIL, was a bit similar, but she already knows all the nitty gritty details about the OW/xgf. She didn't know the divorce was final nor did my FIL. And to my surprise, but not surprised, apparently Waldo never told his dad about the OW/xgf. I was SO p!ssed. I could not believe what a coward Waldo was. But then again, poor Waldo right? Doesn't want anyone to know or judge him, so just dont say anything. Unreal. StepMIL also shared that Waldo's dad tried to get him to open up/confess, opened the conversation to let him know it was safe to talk about. Waldo stuck with his MLC story.
This new revolation has me wondering is there MORE to this story? What else is Waldo hiding? Nothing is surprising right?
Besides all that, we are making it work. That is MY goal. MY focus. The best revenge is success. And that's empowering. I do need to GAL, but right now my focus is being the best I can be and work hard at my new job and keep it. I enjoy it and feel blessed to be there, especially now.
Good Morning Can
It does sound like XH, Waldo, kept things from his Mom and Stepmom. As you said not surprising that Waldo is sticking to his story.
This new revolation has me wondering is there MORE to this story? What else is Waldo hiding?
Definitely, there is more to
the XH’s story; more that he is hiding. Unfortunately he is hiding it from himself. Long ago emotional pain.
Nice to hear your new job is going so well. You do sound strong, grounded, and well out of XH’s shadow. Live in the light.
Have a wonderful day.
D
I dont have a lawyer. No judgement pls.
X is late on his first payment (Nov 1st). I brought up child support (per agreement) when our D became final last month. "I'll just deposit it in your account..." he stated via text.
Why do I feel guilty asking...following up? We are okay for money, but it's the principal of the matter. Is it guilt I'm feeling? Or more anixety about have to ask him anything?
I'm not 100% sure where he is, if he's in a position that he can easily make this transaction happen. I just feel sick over it. Maybe it's shame that he hasn't paid? Why should I carry such hard and heavy feelings.
Maybe I should ask if he needs my account informarion to makw a deposit?
Can:
Being late on the first payment is a bad sign. This is not shame. Shame would have paid it. This is selfishness. You need to set a firm boundary for him. She is very young and you have a long way to go. You can't feel guilty about asking him to support his daughter, particularly when I assume you have a court order in the divorce. Send the bank account number and routing number and let him know it was due on the first and you need him to make the payment immediately and timely make the December payment. If it persists into January, don't mess around, I'm sure your state has a child support registry he can be made to pay into so they can be the bad guy instead of you for enforcement. They may assess a small fee, but it will be well worth it for you not to have to deal with it, particularly if it gives you anxiety to even ask when he is already 3 week late.
Thank you Ownit. I sent him a msg. and did feel some relief in doing so.
I followed your suggestion of auto transfer. (Instead of checks as he suggested).
Before doing so I found myself coming up with excuses for his late payment (ie: he works very remotely at sea & is the boss of a small vessel, finishing up the season which is busy & stressful). Regardless of why, he needs to obey the agreement that was put forward by a court of law.
*When contacting him I make sure to include details like dates & $$ amounts, what pg of our agreement support payments are on. Etc etc. I look at each interaction like business, and if we need to go back and review anything there will be no confusion & clear evidence as to what each message meant.*
Well see how he replies.
He replied.
I'm not going to read anything until Wednesday afternoon when I'm done work and off for a few days.
There's 5 msg. I was outside with a friend and didnt have my phone when they came through. A few hours later I saw I had msgs. I dont need to know what his reply is asap. It can wait. And if he really needs to contact me he try calling.
I dont need added stress. My heart races constantly. I've been at my new job a month and I love it. I have moments, can improve, want to, trying to. Can't let stress get to me. Any stress.
Good Morning Can
I’m sorry for the strain and stress you are under. However, putting off news, bad news or good news, until Wednesday is just delaying you knowing. I think that strategy may create more stress.
Read the messages and wait until Wednesday to respond. It’s the delay in your response that is the key, IMHO. It’s gives you 24-48 hours to compose yourself, to consider what was stated, and to response to whatever H has said; otherwise you are responding on Friday.
You don’t need to rush to read his messages, and I like the idea of doing that when you have some free time and can be more at peace. I would suggest you could read any messages any day after work. Then respond 48 hours later.
Perhaps you are delaying because you expect him to lash out or otherwise blame and give bad news. Expectations, they do affect us. Set them to zero, and deal with what actually happens. You are currently dealing with something that you expect to happen. That is creating a fearful and stressful outlook for yourself.
And if he really needs to contact me he try calling.
I think him calling would not alleviate the stress it would add to it.
Detach. Be indifferent. You can read his messages without being dragged around emotionally. You can consider your response and further actions over the next couple of days. And then you can respond, if needed.
D
Can, I experienced exactly this kind of anxiety that you are experiencing, and still do. If I see an e-mail from H's lawyer or the court, my entire body goes into fight/flight and I can't think or function.
Slowly I am learning that my response is a trauma response, it has nothing to do with the message I am getting. You have to work on your trauma and your anxiety response, and then you will not feel as bad each time.
The thing about divorce is that no one can make you do anything until a trial. Everything that happens before trial is just an effort to come to an agreement before trial. But nothing you do or say is binding unless you sign something. You an annoy everyone by saying no to everything up until the day of trial. You can even say no after, and they would have to bring you back to court. I am not saying you SHOULD say no to everything, but remembering that I can helped me with my anxiety and my ability to think clearly about my options and parameters.
Another thing that I realized is that I did H no favors by allowing him to have no responsibilities all this time. I thought by cutting him loose and being totally independent, I could have peace. But all that happened is that he and his lawyer took it and ran with it -- trying to get out of any responsibilities for debt and child support and using my ability to feed our kids without him as the justification for trying to get ALIMONY! My wages are extremely low and so are H's, so it's insane to think I would have to support him in any way. And I realized that if I had gone to the state with a petition for child support even before H filed for divorce, it would have been a reality check for him and might have limited some of his absurd legal shenanigans. And even if it had no effect on limiting him, at least it would have gotten me a little extra money every month. The child support services people don't give a hoot about MLC or who is right or wrong. They collect and they do it strictly. If I were you, if he doesn't send the money, I would go through the state and just file a petition and let them handle it. You set up an account and they collect it from him and it goes into the account so you don't have to have any contact.
Does your state have a family justice center? They offer free therapy, etc., to women who have survived abuse. Abuse includes verbal and emotional and financial abuse. They helped me access services and I even got a couple bags of groceries there when I really needed it.
Remember, your anxiety is real. But what is causing it is trauma, not H's behavior or letters. He has already done his worst and you survived it. You are doing just fine, whether he gives you money or not. You will be okay. But you can try to get the money, for your kids. Make the effort but surrender the outcome. It won't kill you either way. You are okay, you are okay, you are okay.
(((((Canbird)))))
Good Morning Can
I’m sorry for the strain and stress you are under. However, putting off news, bad news or good news, until Wednesday is just delaying you knowing. I think that strategy may create more stress.
Read the messages and wait until Wednesday to respond. It’s the delay in your response that is the key, IMHO. It’s gives you 24-48 hours to compose yourself, to consider what was stated, and to response to whatever H has said; otherwise you are responding on Friday.
You don’t need to rush to read his messages, and I like the idea of doing that when you have some free time and can be more at peace. I would suggest you could read any messages any day after work. Then respond 48 hours later.
Perhaps you are delaying because you expect him to lash out or otherwise blame and give bad news. Expectations, they do affect us. Set them to zero, and deal with what actually happens. You are currently dealing with something that you expect to happen. That is creating a fearful and stressful outlook for yourself.
And if he really needs to contact me he try calling.
I think him calling would not alleviate the stress it would add to it.
Detach. Be indifferent. You can read his messages without being dragged around emotionally. You can consider your response and further actions over the next couple of days. And then you can respond, if needed.
D
Hi DnJ. He txt 2 more times, 7 in total) he says he's at work (could be) and barely any reception.. could be true... I glaced briefly, didnt read full messages. I saw the words "maybe ask your dad to buy the housre or sell the house", "when are you getting your own phone plan? Auto insurance.." "you have income from the rental"... I did not read anything about child support. Again, I haven't read the full content.
I did not sleep. Maybe 3-4 hrs? But I functioned great at work
Whatever happens happens.
Good Morning Can
I am glad to hear work is going well and you are doing great while working. Throwing ourselves back into a job is a good distraction. The shift of our focus provides excellent time for our inner mind to mull things over and find peace and acceptance. It’s a slow go, but of course like a fine wine it take time and one cannot rush it.
The brief snippets of message you saw is good. It’s gives that inner mind extra time before you actual sit down to read and respond. I want you to realize something - XH has no right to those answers.
Getting your own phone plan, auto insurance, etc... None of his business anymore. Now, if the divorce agreement states timelines and such for completing certain things, fine, assure him it will be done by the deadline. Other than that, he doesn’t control you. You control you.
H may try to manipulate you into selling the house or whatever; don’t worry about his timeline. Live your full life and fit in things as you see fit.
Child support. Maybe he has mentioned it and the preview didn’t show it. You will find out when you read the message in their entirety. If he is playing games with child support, that is something you will need to address. There are options available for enforcement if things come to that. You don’t need to play along with whatever XH might or might not be trying - nefarious or not. It’s pretty simple and straight forward to have an automatic monthly transfer from his account to your’s.
I’m sorry sleep is currently difficult. Besides the lack of sleep not allowing us to function at our best, how we sleep is a good indicator of how we are doing internally / subconsciously. 3-4 hours isn’t great; I’ve been there. This is just a rough patch on the path. (((Can)))
Let us know what XH’s seven message are about. I’m interested in your well-being and all for you getting a full night sleep again.
Take care.
D
I finally read XH's 7 msgs regarding child support.
My msg to him was a follow up, suggesting that auto payment be set up.
His reply: "That would be fine. Seems like you could use the rental income for that."
(We have a shared rental, that I manage. In our agreement, a portion of the income (25%) goes towards paying the loan we have on it. It was not stated, what is done with the other 75%. Verbal doesn't count for anything.)
"Otherwise, start putting that towards the loan 100%".
"I'm still going to have to pay the mortgage and the taxes."
"And insurance for the house and the cars".
"Are you going to get your own phone plan?"
"You should buy the house. Ask your dad to help you. Don't know how you expect me to survive when I'm paying everything."
"Or the house gets sold".
*He also mentioned he barely had any (cell phone) service do to the weather at the moment (" assuming he's still at work, remote in the middle of the sea...assuming"*
I don't know what to say in reply to this. He's says that would be fine... the auto pay, but then mentions using rental income to cover the child support. That's not what was in our agreement. However, that rental income IS income. It's been on our tax returns for over 8 years as other income. He COULD come back and say, "I want my half of the rental income".
As of right now, I have control over that rental income, as I am the only acting landlord. Legally, only 25% has to go towards the loan. The other 75%, we verbally agreed, goes towards bills for the rental & and any repairs. And whatever the main house needs.{payment of bills, repairs etc..I take care of the main house we reside in too.
(our mistake/my mistake not having it in writing.... boy oh boy I'm learning....COULD OF SHOULD OF...)
Mortgage payments, due to covid, are in forbearance. Partial payments, from "his account", have been sent. Yes, he has paid for other insurances.
Other points he brought up, me getting my own phone plan, it's in the works. No big deal there, I understand he just want to cut all ties, even though It doesn't cost him anything to have me on his plan. I look at these kind of things as business. And I also look at things through his point of view too. He supported me 100% as a homemaker & stay-at-home mom for years, and that arrangement has changed.
Thoughts? Not replying without hearing from the peanut gallery. I will be consulting with my father on this too.
Hello Can
Yes, get the child support setup and automatic ASAP.
Getting your own phone plan is as you said, no big deal. And that is in the works.
Your divorce is final and now a month old. As to XH’s suggestions - follow the agreement. Anything verbal is as good as the paper it is written on. Do not make side deals.
I am confused with the allocation of assets. Do you both still own the house? Is the a provision for you to buy him out? Or him you? Or is it supposed to be sold?
The rental income was joint. However post divorce I would suspect your income streams would no longer be intertwined. With that in mind the agreed to 25% of the rental income used for upkeep and such, is confusing. Who owns the rental? Who’s income is it?
I see you realize the need for things to be in writing. And I realize you do not have a lawyer. Is this divorce agreement signed by a judge and final? It sounds a bit vague to me.
That being said. Do what the agreement states. Nothing more. You do not need or want to set a precedent.
If the other 75% is joint income, then let him claim his share and his share of the expenses. Do not use the rental income as child support directly. Have a paper trail showing his portion of the rental being paid to him and his payment of child support being paid from him. You don’t need anything that can come back on you later.
Did the contents of the house get split up? The cars? It is interesting XH pushing for you to buy the house. Is that something you are interested in? Do you want to keep the rental? Or could you keep the house and he gets the rental?
It appears that custody is to you. Do you have full custody? Or primary custody? Or something else?
It looks like items are still being negotiated. Although I may have read things incorrectly and these are already sorted out.
And I also look at things through his point of view too. He supported me 100% as a homemaker & stay-at-home mom for years, and that arrangement has changed.
You also supported him 100% by remaining at home which allowed him to be gainfully employed and advance his career. Do not sell your half of the contributions to your marriage for less than they are. You are entitled to support and your children are entitled to support.
All those years you remained at home, you could have been working and accruing a retirement nest egg and would now otherwise have a career with an income. However, you stayed at home and H financially support you, the kids, and the household. XH is required to continue supporting (for some amount of time, which depends upon the local laws).
Wait a good 48 hours before responding to XH. And talk things over with your Dad. And maybe a lawyer, just to have a professional opinion of the agreement.
D
I second DnJ's questions. What judge signed off on this? It sounds very messy and not at all satisfactory as a final divorce decree. The whole point of the divorce is to settle all these questions.
I also second what DnJ said about following the agreement but with an addendum -- GET YOUR FINANCES SEPARATED FROM THIS MAN ASAP. Why would you want to talk to him about money or share anything with him? Fly, Canbird, Fly!!!!!
(And remember, I say that as someone who does not believe in divorce and encourages standing staunchly! But this is the finances, you gotta get clear of that so you can build a good life no matter what happens.)
Without knowing any of the details -- it sounds like you most definitely would qualify for alimony on top of child support.
I would suggesting taking the papers to three lawyers, as if you are vetting them to see if you would hire them. It's a consultation to get their take and how they would approach this.
Alternatively, do a web search for women's justice centers near you. You need expert advice.
I am quite sharp on business matters and somewhat sharp on division of property so if you want to give more details, I could try to give you better advice.
My advice without knowing anything is that you immediately form an LLC that will be your rent collection entity. Do it as a single member LLC with you as the only member. All rents go into that account and all building maintenance expenses are paid from it. Build a history for that LLC. Do it fast, now, Dec 1 start date, so you can move all your books from 2020 into your books for this LLC.
I am still embroiled in divorce and joint ownership. So what I do with my LLC is that the LLC pays 75% of all rents to me and H. It goes into my joint account with H (he never accesses this and has no ability to understand anything about money except his delusion that I am stealing it). 25% stays in the company account to pay repairs and other expenses plus sales tax, etc. The 75% going into joint account all goes to mortgage. Right now it's not covering even a big fraction of mortgage but I am in forbearance too. But I am paying the interest at minimum so my debt numbers don't go up on my credit score; I want to be able to buy him out as soon as I can refinance.
Then you will have a history for your LLC and you can apply to buy him out by having your LLC buy the property. The total the LLC will have to pay is just whatever you owe him. A good deal!
Your rental income -- it's half yours and half his, but it's not the entire rents, some of that as I said above is going through your company along with expenses. When you do your taxes, you claim half the income that does hit your account and he must claim the other half. Likewise you each can claim half the mortgage interest. And as soon as possible, you buy him out and this is all yours to claim, via your business. Remember, you are building equity in a joint property. You have to get credit for that elsewhere if he is not contributing an equal amount to equity.
Child support is based on his income and should be done through the state. No discussion, no negotiation. The percentage the state requires is tied to his income and you don't have to check it, they will do that. You can also petition the family court for child support. This is the one thing the state is good at. Though I am remembering now that maybe you don't live in the US so maybe this isn't the case where you are, I always confuse your story with a few of the other "sophomores" here! : )
You can be creative with solutions to get something equitable and cut all ties and give him some relief. He is pissed about your expenses but he's not totally wrong. It should be quantifiable, how you are getting paid spousal support by what numbers, even if it's via equity in the property as a lump sum. Everything should be quantifiable, you take this thing worth this much, he takes this thing worth the same. The only thing is that you get to have a place to live, even if you end up by offering a slow transfer -- e.g., you buy him out fully by 2025, and you have a staggered schedule of how that gets paid out. I can be more specific if you can.
That's Gerda's suggestion page just after a Thanksgiving meal -- e.g., possibly turkey coma influenced.
Hi DnJ, thank you for your reply. I'll do my best to answer clarify things.
Yes, get the child support setup and automatic ASAP.
Your divorce is final and now a month old. As to XH’s suggestions - follow the agreement. Anything verbal is as good as the paper it is written on. Do not make side deals
Totally agree with this. The agreement we signed is what should be follow.
I am confused with the allocation of assets. Do you both still own the house? Is there a provision for you to buy him out? Or him you? Or is it supposed to be sold?
We both still own the house. And the rental is on that property. D4 and I live in the house. The title is in both our names," intend to sell" is what's written in the agreement. There are no provisions regarding buying the other person out.
The rental income was joint. However post divorce I would suspect your income streams would no longer be intertwined. With that in mind the agreed to 25% of the rental income used for upkeep and such, is confusing. Who owns the rental? Who’s income is it?
It is written in the agreement, that we jointly manage the rental income. It goes into a joint account, and 25% of the income goes towards another account to pay off a loan. We both own the rental, as it is on the same property as our main house, that we jointly own. Both our names are on the title. The income has been claimed on our jointly filed income tax. I have always been the landlord, as I am here full-time.
I see you realize the need for things to be in writing. And I realize you do not have a lawyer. Is this divorce agreement signed by a judge and final? It sounds a bit vague to me. That being said. Do what the agreement states. Nothing more. You do not need or want to set a precedent.
Divorce agreement was signed by a judge & final. I agree to stick to the agreement.
If the other 75% is joint income, then let him claim his share and his share of the expenses. Do not use the rental income as child support directly. Have a paper trail showing his portion of the rental being paid to him and his payment of child support being paid from him. You don’t need anything that can come back on you later.
I like your way of thinking D.... and I've been thinking a lot about the rental income, since our divorce became final. It's part doing business right? 25% goes towards the loan, and the rest goes towards paying the rental bills. Whatever is left over we split.
I love a good paper trail. I agree, with his portion of the rental income, I should start making auto-transfers to his personal account and leave a paper trail, I like that. I've been careful with transactions from this account and have detailed notes/ description attached. (ie landscaping, washing machine repair...etc)
Did the contents of the house get split up? The cars? It is interesting XH pushing for you to buy the house. Is that something you are interested in? Do you want to keep the rental? Or could you keep the house and he gets the rental?
He left with 99% of his clothes & camera gear. The garage is FULL of a lot of his "toys". His vehicle is here, which I have permission to drive, per the agreement if I need to. I have ownership of my vehicle. The rest of the contents in the house we split if anything is sold. Neither of us are attached to anything. It's just stuff.
It appears that custody is to you. Do you have full custody? Or primary custody? Or something else?
-Joint legal custody. I have sole physical custody. D4 and I live on an island, so we'll see how and if visitation actually happens. (and then there's covid....)
It looks like items are still being negotiated. Although I may have read things incorrectly and these are already sorted out.
The divorce became final a month ago and he's been away at sea since April. He's almost done work... so I'm trying to get things like child support sorted. He needs to follow the agreement.
And I also look at things through his point of view too. He supported me 100% as a homemaker & stay-at-home mom for years, and that arrangement has changed.
You also supported him 100% by remaining at home which allowed him to be gainfully employed and advance his career. Do not sell your half of the contributions to your marriage for less than they are. You are entitled to support and your child is entitled to support.
All those years you remained at home, you could have been working and accruing a retirement nest egg and would now otherwise have a career with an income. However, you stayed at home and H financially support you, your child, and the household. XH is required to continue supporting (for some amount of time, which depends upon the local laws).
Thank you for reminding me to not sell myself short. My dad said the same thing.
Wait a good 48 hours before responding to XH. And talk things over with your Dad. And maybe a lawyer, just to have a professional opinion of the agreement.
I talked with my dad today. He agreed with sticking to what the agreement says regarding child support. It does not come from the rental income. We also talked about the rental income. XH has not come right out and asked for his half, but I think it's something I should consider moving forward, and to have that paper trail.
I do need to think things over before I reply. One thing is crystal clear to me, and to most of us. He needs to stick to the agreement regarding child support. It's to his benefit as well to stick to the plan, as it shows he is following what the court has ordered.
Feeling okay moving forward. Whatever will be will be. I may have to do all the heavy lifting, but that's how you gain muscle, right? With a little help from my friends.
Hi Gerda, thank you for your reply. I will do my best to respond to your questions
What judge signed off on this? It sounds very messy and not at all satisfactory as a final divorce decree. The whole point of the divorce is to settle all these questions.
State of Hawaii. Filed as uncontested, without a jury. I had a lawyer, had him served, I had it revoked. Emotions got the best of me. Stupid? Perhaps. We filed together, using his lawyer. I'm glad I did see a lawyer, so I was familiar with the paperwork. Stupid? Perhaps.
I also second what DnJ said about following the agreement but with an addendum -- GET YOUR FINANCES SEPARATED FROM THIS MAN ASAP. Why would you want to talk to him about money or share anything with him? Fly, Canbird, Fly!!!!!
xo I have been soring above all of this with such grace. I do have my own bank account. The only thing we have that ties us is the house, and the rental income. I don't know if I can manage the house on my own. I've only been at my new job a month. If the house gets sold, so be it. The mortgage & loan get paid, whatever the realtor gets etc etc... we split the rest, but I get a certain $ amount more than him, because I contributed more going into the purchase. Dang write I had that added!
Without knowing any of the details -- it sounds like you most definitely would qualify for alimony on top of child support.
I would suggesting taking the papers to three lawyers, as if you are vetting them to see if you would hire them. It's a consultation to get their take and how they would approach this.
Alternatively, do a web search for women's justice centers near you. You need expert advice.
I am quite sharp on business matters and somewhat sharp on division of property so if you want to give more details, I could try to give you better advice.
Division of property is pretty much 50/50. We both came into the marriage with nothing, but I got $$ to get the house and furnish it. That's in the agreement, that I get those funds back with the sales of the house. He worked, supported us for years... I contributed by taking care of the house, the rental and our daughter for the past 4 years, while he was away for half the year. Year after year... NEVER doing that kind of relationship again.
My advice without knowing anything, is that you immediately form an LLC that will be your rent collection entity. Do it as a single member LLC with you as the only member. All rents go into that account and all building maintenance expenses are paid from it. Build a history for that LLC. Do it fast, now, Dec 1 start date, so you can move all your books from 2020 into your books for this LLC.
I'm not business savy, so bare with me
The rental has always been under XH state business license. We are required to have this license in order to have a "legal rental". In the past we've claimed it on our joint taxes. I have a business license as well. Got it years ago for work purposes, (independent contractor of sorts) but never used it. It's the same license XH has.
Our x's sound similar in the sense that mine also doesn't understand how to pay the taxes on the rental, I've always been the one to handle the money, pay the bills. He also pays no attention to the rental account we have jointly. He's got another account, at a different bank, that technically is joint, but I separated myself from it in March, after we signed our papers. I have checks for this account, and he's had me write payments out for the mortgage. Again, this comes out of HIS account. Hope that's not to confusing.... it's business.
I am still embroiled in divorce and joint ownership. So what I do with my LLC is that the LLC pays 75% of all rents to me and H. It goes into my joint account with H (he never accesses this and has no ability to understand anything about money except his delusion that I am stealing it). 25% stays in the company account to pay repairs and other expenses plus sales tax, etc. The 75% going into joint account all goes to mortgage. Right now it's not covering even a big fraction of mortgage but I am in forbearance too. But I am paying the interest at minimum so my debt numbers don't go up on my credit score; I want to be able to buy him out as soon as I can refinance.
Then you will have a history for your LLC and you can apply to buy him out by having your LLC buy the property. The total the LLC will have to pay is just whatever you owe him. A good deal!
Your rental income -- it's half yours and half his, but it's not the entire rents, some of that as I said above is going through your company along with expenses. When you do your taxes, you claim half the income that does hit your account and he must claim the other half. Likewise you each can claim half the mortgage interest. And as soon as possible, you buy him out and this is all yours to claim, via your business. Remember, you are building equity in a joint property. You have to get credit for that elsewhere if he is not contributing an equal amount to equity.
I'm not very business savy... I kind of understand what you're saying. I'll have to read over it again.
Child support is based on his income and should be done through the state. No discussion, no negotiation. The percentage the state requires is tied to his income and you don't have to check it, they will do that. You can also petition the family court for child support. This is the one thing the state is good at. Though I am remembering now that maybe you don't live in the US so maybe this isn't the case where you are, I always confuse your story with a few of the other "sophomores" here! : )
Yes, CS was figured out based on his income through the state. After I received my lovely divorce papers in the mail, I called CSEA (Child Support Enforcement Agency). XH lawyer should have filed CS form on his behalf, as stated in the agreement. XH lovely copy of divorce papers were mailed here, and a week later something else from his lawyer. (Probably a receipt). I asked where xh wanted his mail sent, and sent it. He is still at work, or just finishing up being at sea... remote... so might not have seen any paperwork yet. I made him aware of this CS form, days after I got the divorce papers, asked if he knew about it, and he was CLUELESS about it. DUH.... his lawyer prepared the agreement that mentions this form.. xh is CLUELESS to all of this..
You can be creative with solutions to get something equitable and cut all ties and give him some relief. He is pissed about your expenses but he's not totally wrong. It should be quantifiable, how you are getting paid spousal support by what numbers, even if it's via equity in the property as a lump sum. Everything should be quantifiable, you take this thing worth this much, he takes this thing worth the same. The only thing is that you get to have a place to live, even if you end up by offering a slow transfer -- e.g., you buy him out fully by 2025, and you have a staggered schedule of how that gets paid out. I can be more specific if you can.
Guess I can ask him to give me more details regarding what he meant by saying "You should buy the house. .."
My interpretation is, he suggesting I buy him out... I could ask, what he has in mind. Or just sell, was the other suggestion. Either way, something's got to happen. I know this.
Most important thing to take care of is D4. I can start transferring his portion of the rental income, if he's open to that. I don't see why he wouldn't be.
What else can I do? Besides seek the advice of a lawyer. Oh what fun divorce is,,, said no one.
I'm fine. Thankful that I can always find something to laugh about, most of the time.
Hi CanBird,
I just read your whole sitch and wanted to send positive vibes your way... this all is hard and you're doing so well.
I had a couple of questions/thoughts for you to take or leave. I also have to say if there is any way you could buy him out of the house, you should pursue it. I think you can count the rental income as income towards qualifying on the loan, since you've lived there for more than a year. And interest rates are so low right now, it might be at least worth looking into.
When my neighbor and his W divorced, he couldn't afford to buy her out right away so she stayed on the deed. But the equity in the home was capped at the appraised amount when they Dd so that he had a set amount to work towards and she wasn't gaining additional equity in the house. Did you guys do something like this?
And finally... you might consider, even if it is really tough for awhile, if you buy out your ex, to move you and D4 into your rental and rent out the bigger home. My friend did this in her D-- moved into the rental unit and rented out the main house-- which was emotionally difficult at first, but the rent on the main house nearly covers the mortgage of the full property. I'm not sure which island you're on, but once tourism comes back maybe you could look into AirBnB instead of a long-term rental, if it's legal and you're willing, for either house, you might be able to make significantly more $$ that way.
HUGS.
So much thinking. The more I try to think of ways to save the house I live in, I wonder if it's really worth the stuggle.
It's a GREAT house, with a rental property on it (extra income) and a pool (lots of work, but love it).
IF I was to take on the house, I would take on the mortgage. Would I then be responsible for the home loan we also have? It's written in the agreement, that we are equally responsible for both.
Selling the house, paying off all debts, and then splitting the rest (with me getting $xxx,xxx more as written in the agreement) sounds like an easier less stressful plan to me.
Maybe if I'm lucky, someone will want to buy the house as is and furnished...lol... I'm not attached to any of the furniture.
Starting fresh sounds like a lovely thing and I feel like I'm leaning towards that, as I don't think I can afford to do the latter.
CanBirderino -- I did not know you live in paradise. A house with a pool in Hawaii? Girl, you can MAKE money on that, not just pay your mortgage. Gosh I wish we could talk about this on the phone!!!
I need to go through your post in detail and will do that later but just to put this out there --
The house is a great investment. It is already I assume paying for itself. You are living there for free.
What if you moved to the rental portion, I assume that's smaller, and AirB'd the bigger house? Or keep renting out the rental and create a beautiful room for guests in your house and rent that out on AirB also? You can do this til you can buy him out.
That is the business I am in. One of them. And I am running on fumes. My H pays for nothing. Literally nothing. But I have held on to it all this way. One day I hope to buy him out and keep running my business. I am even thinking of taking all I learned and start flipping houses when my nightmare is over.
I am so sick and tired of women giving up on a viable business because a man is bullying them. Look up Laura Munson and her place Haven Home, see if you can find the column she wrote on figuring out a way to keep the house she loved.
I still don't understand all the loose ends of your agreement where you are still so tied together and so much vagueness about ownership and funds.
I have a great spreadsheet for calculating this stuff, if only I could give it to you!
But maybe I will make a sample one for you to show you how you can quantify all this and buy him out.
My advice is to buy him out, move to the rental or put a tiny house on your property, and start your vacation rentals!
Also this license stuff may be what you need for rentals in Hawaii but I am talking about taxes and accounting stuff. I am talking about quantifying what goes in and out and what is and isn't equity. I will try to write a sample for you to show you what I mean when I have a minute.
Hi Gerda, Thanks for your reply. I'll do my best answer your questions.
CanBirderino -- I did not know you live in paradise. A house with a pool in Hawaii? Girl, you can MAKE money on that, not just pay your mortgage. Gosh I wish we could talk about this on the phone!!!
The house is a great investment. It is already I assume paying for itself. You are living there for free.
"
What if you moved to the rental portion, I assume that's smaller, and AirB'd the bigger house? Or keep renting out the rental and create a beautiful room for guests in your house and rent that out on AirB also? You can do this til you can buy him out.
We had planned on making our rental into a "Vacation Rental", and our very strict state made an addendum that prevented certain residential properties from doing such. We we're crushed. So yes, we could have, that was our intention. But with COVID, we are actually lucky we didn't have a vacation rental, because tourism came to a grinding halt for months. SO many restrictions in place that many of these places ended up going back to being landlords or have to sell.
The rental is small. I don't think I could fit all my personal stuff in there, let alone my daughters stuff. I'm not even sure if we could legally do it. It's been mentioned to me before. I'd go mental.
I am so sick and tired of women giving up on a viable business because a man is bullying them. Look up Laura Munson and her place Haven Home, see if you can find the column she wrote on figuring out a way to keep the house she loved.
I'd love nothing more than to keep the house. The cost of living in paradise is expensive. Now that my status has changed, I am applying for whatever assistance I qualify for. Every bit helps. Keeping my fingers crossed for assistance with childcare. And whatever we have to do to cut down on costs we are willing to do.
I still don't understand all the loose ends of your agreement where you are still so tied together and so much vagueness about ownership and funds.
Although we are legally divorce, 1 month, we have not really split anything up, other than the vehicles, because he has been away at sea for the season since April. He's finishing up, so things are unraveling at a slower than normal pace. While he's been away, D4 and I have been living in the home. Because of Covid, and because he was gone away for months, we didn't do anything, left everything the same.
We own the house together, and the property also has a tiny house on it that we rent out. Rental income goes into a joint account we have. A portion of that income goes toward a loan we have. Because of Covid, and because he was gone away for months, we didn't do anything, left everything the same.
My advice is to buy him out, move to the rental or put a tiny house on your property, and start your vacation rentals!
Forgive my ignorance here, but to buy him out, I need money. I've only been working at my new job a month, and as much as I'd love to make things work for D4 and I, I'm feeling at a loss when it comes to how to buy him out. Not sure a bank would qualify me for any loans. I'm not yet a us citizen (not yet... very soon) and I'm low income.
Also this license stuff may be what you need for rentals in Hawaii but I am talking about taxes and accounting stuff. I am talking about quantifying what goes in and out and what is and isn't equity. I will try to write a sample for you to show you what I mean when I have a minute.
Yes, please explain it to me as if you're talking to a six year old. I do want to understand how to make it work.
Today I sign up for my own auto insurance. Next is my cell phone plan.
Ps-Gerda... I read the article you suggested. What I got out of it was to brainstorm and come up with ways for extra income. Well, I'm trying to sell things. Every little bit helps.
I'm still waiting for CS. Waiting for it to come as intended, as stated in the agreement. I should not have to wait.
I've asked, in the nicest way, trying to keep it business.
CanBird: "Hi, Just so there's no troubles for either of us, C.S. should be followed by what's in the agreement we signed."
...(I then provided auto trans details, I went onto another topic & ended with small talk & well wishes)
XH: "Don't understand what you mean by troubles"
I can't believe he just can't say OKAY. or Will do.
I understand his thinking, and don't agree with it. He thinks I should use the rental income towards D4s CS.
Do I HAVE to spell it out for him? That's not in the agreement AND after making other payments for the rental (a loan and bills) there isn't enough money for her full CS. I do not want to rely on that income for her CS. I don't want to use part of it and have to ask him to cover the rest.
I don't think it is wise to dip into the rental funds for something he should be paying from his account. If he wants me transfer his portion of the rental funds (after payments have been applied) I will GLADLEY do so. As for now, the income sits in our joint account. That's got to change. SOMEthing has to change...
PS- Yesterday I got myself set up for auto insurance & today I got set up for my own phone plan.
I made sure to let XH know.
Can, I looked up your state. Hawaii has the same child support enforcement set up as my state. Do not talk to H about it anymore. Give them the whole file. They will set up an account and take the money out of his paycheck and put it in your account for you to access for D4. No discussion with him needed. Keep records of every time he does not pay. Your agreement says to pay child support. You are not making a new agreement with the rental income. Keep everything very clear and separate.
I still don't understand why your D agreement didn't specify if you get to stay in the house til D is 18 and then split the sale or if you have to sell it now, etc. Why would a judge leave you with all those loose ends? It's not even an equitable set up, and if you were the homemaker all these years, YOU GET ALIMONY.
If you don't want to go after that for peace reasons, I get it. But it seems like you got a little shafted, except for getting to stay in the house. But that should have been quantified as part of the deal.
But if you want to just start from where you are --
Let's suppose your house appraises for $100,000 (I know it's way more, this is just for simple math) and there is $30,000 of mortgage and $20,000 of your other house loan on it.
So the equity is $50,000, $25,000 is yours and $25,000 is H's.
The ability of the property to earn money is just part of the appraisal value. You don't have to think about that for the deal with H.
So H is owed $25,000.
But of that $25,000, you get a credit of $5,000 for the money you put in to buy it.
So H is owed $20,000.
I think from what you said above, there is no other deductions you can take.
You are not currently in a position to refinance the property for the $50,000 of loans plus the $20,000 for H.
But you might be able to get a modification of the loans. EVERYONE is modifying loans right now. If it's a Freddy or Fannie Mac, they have an automatic modification that will lower your monthly payments.
Either way, you only need to come up with the $20,000 for H. It might be a lot for you right now but it's something that is possible. It will buy you time and allow you to cut ties with H. Then if you have to sell even six months from now, you can do it on your own, your own way.
If you have no way to pay him that 20K, you can offer a payment plan, where you give him something down, whatever you can borrow from family or something, and the rest you can pay monthly or yearly, to pay him off over the next three years, or five or one, whatever you need.
Now about the house.
I think you need to rethink that. You have the chance to own a valuable property in HAWAII by yourself. You can decide in a year if you want to sell it or not. For now, it's an investment opportunity.
Watch a bunch of tiny house videos on youtube. See how other people do it. Put stuff in storage or purge it. Move to the tiny house. Make your daughter the cutest little fairy bedroom ever in the loft. Build a huge deck so you have tons of outdoor space added to your living space. Rent out the big house to someone for one year and use the money to pay H off for his share of the equity.
(It could even be worth taking a partner -- e.g., if someone gives you $20,000 for H, they would be a 20% owner in the property, not a 50% owner. Bank as partner is better, you can pay them off and be done, 20% owner would get 20% when you sell. But it's still better than 50% owned by H!)
Create an LLC to collect rents, do that now. Let's say your tenant pays $10. You pay $8 of that to the joint account as rental income and leave the other $2 to use for rental expenses, repairs, etc. On your taxes, your rental income is $8, not $10. It really will help.
And you need that half of his rental income to show as his income, as it will be part of the child support calculation!
Also you need the child support earmarked as a specific payment, separate from anything else, because you can declare it as income when you refinance or get a new mortgage.
I hope this is not too much info.
5 txt msgs.... of course my anxiety escalated. And then I pulled up my big girl pants and read what he had to say.
He responded to me getting my own phone plan... A sentence broken up in 4 msgs,
And the 5th msg.... WOW!
XH: Work on the bank stuff later
Has there been a breakthrough? I LOVE how vague this msg is. WHAT does that mean? I can only give my interpretation, which is he's actually thinking about the situation, rather than just reacting.
Who knows what he'll come up with. I can only look ahead, and not look back at the things I "should of/could of" done differently.
Fingers crossed that THIS plan is followed out as it was meant to happen. He knows that I'm all about sticking to the rules, so perhaps he has finally look at things from my perspective, and realized that it's not only what I want it's what we ARGREED to do.
Faith Over Fear
Let’s do the math. The property is an asset worth the sales price (minus realtors fees) minus what is owed on the mortgage (and on the second loan if it is secured by the property.)
So - let’s throw out some sample numbers and see how the math might work. Adjust by putting in your real numbers.
Assume:
Property worth 600k
Mortgage of 400k
Equity of 200k (minus maybe $40k in realtor fees/repairs etc if sold)
Rental income from small unit of $1,000 a month
Rental income potential of house $2500 a month
To buy him out (pay him $100k or, if he’ll accept your argument that realtors fees would eat 6% of that if the house was sold, get him to agree to $94k)
Get help from a parent to refi - if they could co-sign - and have a mortgage of $500k with a PITI payment on a 30 year fixed mortgage of around $2600 (or more depending on your property taxes ) .
At that payment, you could live in the small rental and pay the mortgage expenses from renting the house, with only repairs and maintenance for your housing costs. OR you could stay in the house and after rental income your cost to live in the house would be $1600 a month plus repairs/maintenance. If you could get a roommate for one bedroom in the house, you could cut your expenses even more.
Now I realize that unless you are in a very low cost area of Hawaii, all these numbers are likely much higher, probably double.
I echo what Gerda has to say about considering living in the small rental if you really want to keep the house. People live in tiny houses, it’s different but doable - and if it
Another alternative, if you really cannot afford to stay, is to sell, and take your share of the equity to move to a much lower cost area. If you stay in the US, don’t forget about health insurance costs in your calculations. My medical assistant just moved to Florida to be near her elderly parents, and bought a nice 2 bedroom 1400 s.f. Condo for about $210k. (Florida isn’t my cup of tea but if you want warm weather and a lower cost of living...)
Plug your numbers into all of this. It may or may not make sense to keep it.
Thank you Gerda & Kml. I enjoyed plugging in the numbers.
If buying him out means giving him the amount he'd get if it was sold, then I'd be willing to do that and could ask my family for money. It'd be under $50,000. That's after I've taken back what I contributed. At least I got THAT in writing!
I've been purdging for 2 years. Guess living in the tiny house would only kill me for a little bit. At least we'd have our own rooms and I do have a garage for storage. Something to think about. I couldnt do it right away, due to current tenants. But well see.
If buying him out means giving him the amount he'd get if it was sold, then I'd be willing to do that and could ask my family for money. It'd be under $50,000. That's after I've taken back what I contributed. At least I got THAT in writing!
In my sitch, they would not accept the closing cost version, just straight value minus debt. But you can try that! Proceed with your offer as if that's what is normal and see if they bite. Or use it as a bargaining chip, maybe you can split the difference. Because even if just straight value minus debt, even if it's 100K, it's worth it! If you had to spend 100K to buy that house, would you do it?!
Remember, you can sell this a year later. It will be on your own terms, your way. It's best to cut the ties and be free if you can. Certainly no one should expect you to move during a pandemic.
I've been purging for 2 years. Guess living in the tiny house would only kill me for a little bit. At least we'd have our own rooms and I do have a garage for storage. Something to think about. I couldnt do it right away, due to current tenants. But well see.
It might not kill but you but liberate you. Watch those tiny house videos! Inspiring single moms!
Xh sent me a an email replying to setting up Child Support (CS) auto payments.
XH: "Send me the info to set it up"
WOW. (Wow! Finally & Wow! Xh comes off not so nice).
I provided the account information (AGAIN), included a link for Child Support Services in our State, and attached the pages from our agreement about the CS. My closing statement to him was to contact his lawyer if he had any other questions. I've given him all the information he needs. *This whole conversation started Oct 30, 2020*
I could have given him zero info, as he already has the account info and should have the other information. but I think I did the right thing.
ps- nothing new about the house. I've got other personal business to deal with before I can even think about that.
PSS- Sold a bicycle, and I might have a buyer for another item I've listed
"tis the season
Thank you DB team for your support, steering me to NOT give in to what he wanted.
XH "figured out" how to do an auto-transfer. But not directly from his bank, but through some payment app. Interesting. As long as D4s payment come monthly, on the first and it's from HIM, all good.
XH owed for 2 months. I confirmed I got "last months" and "assumed" this months would follow... and so on and so on forth... he said yes... I really hope this IS what's happening. I really don't want to keep hounding him every month. I think he's done work now, so perhaps it's now was easier for him to take care of things. Let's "assume" that was the case.
New cell phone arriving today. I am not tech savy..lol.. we'll see how this goes..
Congratulations to me. I got my citizenship. It was over whelming for me in a few ways. Feels good to accomplish this goal on my own. My D was discussed at my interview, and it was like picking at the scab that had almost healed. It hurt. Talking about it and seeing the word just stings. I say that I'm over it, and I'm doing the best that I can, but I'm not as over it as I thought, but I'm much better than I was.
After coming down from that good news, I've still got to figure out my plan for the house. I haven't heard from XH, but I know it's just a matter of time before it comes up again (I buy the house or we sell). I've talked with my family, and they are not sure if they can help. And they, being my father and sister are not talking to each other, and I might need help from both. Again, I don't know what kind of deal I'm considering bringing to the table, I'm so inexperienced when it comes to dealing with banking.... although I paid all the bills, and managed our money, I don't understand all the fine print in when it comes to loans & mortgages, just the basic basics. Is there a book someone could recommend for banking dummies like me?
More of his mail, (from UI) came to the house. I have no idea what he's doing or where he is. And his family has asked me if I've heard from him. Here we go again with him ghosting everybody, including D4. Selfish. I don't ask where he is. And if D4 wants to contact him, I always make sure to follow through with what she wants. I never force her to do anything. She's old enough to know what she wants.
Today we we're making cookies and she said she was making a special one for her dad for when he comes home. And she said that she missed him. I was very close to saying something to her, but I'm in an emotional state myself with trying to figure out what net with the house, that I just couldn't go down that road yet.
Time for bed. I know I've got to formulate some plan. And I've read over suggestions from past posts.. plugged in the numbers....etc etc... But I still have no real plan. Better sleep on it. Hopefully a restful one.
ps- Gerda & Kml: I made myself a print out, complete with graph were I can plug in my numbers.
I truly appreciate the informative example you've both given me.
Good Morning Can
Congratulations!
Obtaining citizenship is an excellent accomplishment.
I do understand that stinging feeling of seeing your name and the word divorce in print on a legal document. (((Hugs)))
Being over it, isn’t being feeling-free. It’s a process, and I’m not sure we are supposed to, or should, find a place where we don’t feel something. Acceptance. I was married. I loved. I lost. I grew. It happened. I accept.
Be gentle on yourself. You will find a plan regarding the house. It can be overwhelming when considering all the options before you - keep, buy out, sell, rent, etc. etc. Consider what you really would like, not all that you could do, rather what you would like to do. Explore that option with an advisor (if necessary), and see what it takes to make that (or those) reality.
Just a thought, sometimes we can get bogged down in amassing data and comparisons of options we really don’t want and would not choose anyhow. There is value is comparisons, for sure. Do compare scenarios you are willing or wanting. No matter how much money a certain scenario makes or little it costs, if you wouldn’t want to live that way the cost is too high. Maybe that helps shorten the list somewhat.
D
Can -- I recommend the book, The Automatic Millionaire. It's an easy read and will cover a lot about how to set up your future. If you do sell the house, make sure that you have a plan for sinking your equity into a new place so you don't pay capital gains. But check out what you will spend on closing costs -- it is very expensive to sell! If you can move to a small place nearby as a renter and hold on to your house as a landlord, it's a great investment.
But what do you not understand? Do you want to ask some questions here? I am sure you aren't the only person reading the responses who can use the help, so I would be glad to answer. I know a lot about real estate stuff. I was even thinking about starting a blog for women who want to take over their mortgages after an H leaves, or youtube videos. Right after DnJ and I do our virtual house flips.
You can also ask your librarian for books on mortgages at the library. There's one called, Mortgages 101, or you could do the "for dummies" series, they are usually decent.
Congratulations on getting your citizenship! One less thing to worry about. I'm so happy for you.
HI CanBird,
I second Gerda-- if you're comfortable sharing more details and asking more detailed questions, I think Gerda could really help and others could learn from it as well.
If you google "Hawaii Living Divorce House" the first hit should be an August 2018 post called how to handle your family home while divorcing. There is a detailed illustration there of how to pull some equity out of your home, if you can afford it, to get cash to buy out your ex. Depending on when you bought, the decrease in interest rates and extending to a full 30 years might mean that your monthly payments won't increase all that much. I am by no means a real estate expert but I do live in your state and know something about the market here generally, the long-term and short-term rental markets etc. so can pipe in if it is helpful there too.
Also, I do know it is pretty common to have D decrees here that wouldn't really happen in other states necessarily, like having the Ded parties remain co-owners and share the mortgage, etc. However, I was wondering-- because you are now Ded, whatever agreement you make with your ex to buy him out of the house is now just between the two of you, right? A judge won't have to sign off on it? (Gerda, do you know?) I wonder if given his situation, not needing a residence for half the year, being in MLC and wanting to go to Europe-- maybe a lump sum would be pretty attractive to him right now, and he may not be as hard-nosed about the negotiations than he otherwise might be? You could also talk to a real estate L about your options as well.
Congrats on the citizenship, and hugs to D4.
From XH:
Hi
What do you plan to do?
Looking at finances. There is not enough $ to maintain the house and be able to spend time with D$
I think selling it would be the best option. That way you can find where you want to live and I can find my place.
Unless you can buy me out somehow.
Need to discuss.
Cant keep going like this.
Do you have any ideas of what you want to do?
I have not replied to this. I have shared with a trusted friend, and my dad. I feel sick thinking about this.
*It's in our agreement, what to do IF we both agree to sell the house. There are no terms otherwise. And that's the way it was done. (I am the one who shafted myself on the agreement)
Of course I want to keep the house. But can I afford it? Is my job stable?(only been there for 2 months) Will the house be too much for me when BIG repairs start happening? With the economy/pandemic still ongoing, will my tenants income be stable?
Do I want whoever helps me out to be putting themselves on the line for me?
I don't know exactly what his idea of buying him out means, I can only guess. I have not replied.
*He's also been asking when he can talk to D4. I say whenever/anytime/now. He wants a specific time, so I asked that he tell us a time and we'll be available. SO hard but not, to coordinate with him. *
So, here we go. I just feel like crying, but that doesn't solve anything. I REALLY need to figure this out, and I don't want to sell, but I also don't want to put anyone out that's trying to help, and I don't even know if I can get help. And that just leaves me to sell. And even that part [censored]. Having to deal with it all by myself. What is his plan with the rest of his stuff? Have a container come and it goes out of state no doubt. Must be nice. And meanwhile, I get stuck getting rid of everything. I don't have any attachment to anything.
Thoughts?
Hi May! How did I not know we were in the same state! YES pipe away!!
HI CanBird,
I second Gerda-- if you're comfortable sharing more details and asking more detailed questions, I think Gerda could really help and others could learn from it as well.
I am comfortable, but cautions about sharing more details. I doubt he's on this site, but you never know....
If you google "Hawaii Living Divorce House" the first hit should be an August 2018 post called how to handle your family home while divorcing. There is a detailed illustration there of how to pull some equity out of your home, if you can afford it, to get cash to buy out your ex. Depending on when you bought, the decrease in interest rates and extending to a full 30 years might mean that your monthly payments won't increase all that much. I am by no means a real estate expert ...but I do live in your state... and know something about the market here generally, the long-term and short-term rental markets etc. so can pipe in if it is helpful there too.
I will look at that article you suggested shortly. YES pipe in anytime! Mahalo!
Also, I do know it is pretty common to have D decrees here that wouldn't really happen in other states necessarily, like having the Ded parties remain co-owners and share the mortgage, etc.
Glad you're in the know. Different state, different ways. Doesn't excuse me neglecting certain things, but I am moving forward and looking out for myself and my child as best as I can.
However, I was wondering-- because you are now Ded, whatever agreement you make with your ex to buy him out of the house is now just between the two of you, right?
Right. whatever agreement made with ex to buy him out of the house is now just between the two of us There is nothing in our agreement, outing buying the other out. If we can't agree on something, then we have no choice but to go court.
I wonder if given his situation, not needing a residence for half the year, being in MLC and wanting to go to Europe-- maybe a lump sum would be pretty attractive to him right now, and he may not be as hard-nosed about the negotiations than he otherwise might be? You could also talk to a real estate L about your options as well.
XH is MLC/WAS.... ow resides in EU. I literally have no idea were he is, but I'm assuming he's with ow somewhere.
I agree that a lump sum might be pretty attractive to him right now. I'm hoping that negotiations go smoothly. And I might have to talk to a real estate L.
Be safe! Mahalo again xo
Throw out the sample rough math again. How much equity is there in the property? (Sales price minus realtor fees and other costs of selling minus the balance owed on the mortgage). How much is the monthly mortgage payment (principle, interest, property taxes and insurance) and the income from the tenant? How much monthly mortgage payment or rent could you reasonably afford?
Also - how secure is your child support? If he moves to EU and decides not to pay will you have no recourse? Now that you have a job could you afford to pay the mortgage if you use the income from the tenant? Some people negotiate to stay in the house until the child is 18 and then sell and split the profit, with the person residing in the house either paying the mortgage payment in lieu of rent, or paying what rent would cost and splitting other expenses. Granted most with this agreement do not have such young children.
I’d tell him you are looking into the practicality of various options and will get back to him. Then if you decide you can and want to buy him out, make him a lowball offer and see if he’ll take it (he may be so anxious to party with OW that he takes it).
Throw out the sample rough math again. How much equity is there in the property? (Sales price minus realtor fees and other costs of selling minus the balance owed on the mortgage). How much is the monthly mortgage payment (principle, interest, property taxes and insurance) and the income from the tenant? How much monthly mortgage payment or rent could you reasonably afford?
Also - how secure is your child support? If he moves to EU and decides not to pay will you have no recourse? Now that you have a job could you afford to pay the mortgage if you use the income from the tenant? Some people negotiate to stay in the house until the child is 18 and then sell and split the profit, with the person residing in the house either paying the mortgage payment in lieu of rent, or paying what rent would cost and splitting other expenses. Granted most with this agreement do not have such young children.
I’d tell him you are looking into the practicality of various options and will get back to him. Then if you decide you can and want to buy him out, make him a lowball offer and see if he’ll take it (he may be so anxious to party with OW that he takes it).
I have plugged in the numbers before. My wages are eaten up buy child care, bills for 2 properties and basics like food and gas for the car. I often think about BIG things that could go wrong with either property. At least the rental is rented at the moment with someone that has steady income.
The question of secure child support is a good question. He's behind by 1 month. I've inquired, not directly, but thanked him for setting it up, and expressed how important it is that it goes in monthly to help cover D4's basic needs and child care. I should not have to have these conversations with him, it's sad.
I have not said anything to him regarding my plans. I'm leaning more towards moving, as I don't think I can handle things here. I have not yet talked with a mortgage broker, so I don't really know, but I'm low income, work part-time and have only work for just over 2 months. Still in that 90 day probation period. Everyone's hours just got reduced because of the not busy enough, and we're closing for the holidays for a bit too.
But yes, I plan on saying nothing until I have to, and like the idea of saying "Looking into my various options". Although I do wonder if I should ask him what his idea of buying him out looks like? Or should I just be the one to throw out a number to him?
Either way, easy move for him. He packed is clothes and left everything else behind. As if he doesn't already have a place. Give me a break. He'll have 2 places I bet, One will be a small place, just so he can have an address in the US somewhere, probably AK, for tax purposes. And the other will be with OW in her country or somewhere else in the EU.
The truth is out there, but only he knows. And maybe his brother.
Not sleeping. My heart is racing with anxiety about the house. It pounds so hard, it wakes me up when I do fall asleep, only to see that an hour has passed. One of those nights. I hope I'm okay for work. I can't be unfocused.
I want to cry it out, but that doesn't solve anything. At least I can have that release tomorrow if I chose. D4 will be at daycare, and I have the rest of the week off. Our office is cutting hours because we are not busy enough, but we'll be shut for the holidays anyways, so I can cry then too if I need to. But until then, I SMILE like everything is okay. I FAKE it.
Whatever happens, I know I'll be okay. I'm not the first person to struggle and I won't be the last.
It just dawned on me that I have to register my kido for kindergarten in a few months! With the pandemic still active like it is, I can't see us moving off the island, as it's pretty safe, spite the rising numbers. And I have my job.
Still I'm in the 90 probation period, with one month to go. Fingers crossed I pass that threshold. I've been honest with my boss about my divorce. I felt I had to, as it explains why I might have more than one sleepless night. I never discuss my daily struggles, but I wanted to make him aware of this struggle. He shared with me he was raised by a single mom. That was a beautiful share and I really appreciated it. He said I'm doing well and you'd never know I'm struggling, as I hid it well.
Time to get ready for the work day.
Breathing deeply. Maybe that will slow things down.
May peaceful moments come when they are needed most.
My wages are eaten up buy child care, bills for 2 properties and basics like food and gas for the car. I often think about BIG things that could go wrong with either property. At least the rental is rented at the moment with someone that has steady income.
Ok - so the math question is, what is the mortgage (PITI) minus the rental income, compared to what rent would be for you if you move?
Also - what would PITI minus rental income from the main house be if you lived in the small rental? Compared to rent in the area?
And yes, you're right to be concerned about the costs of repairs etc. If the numbers don't work in your favor there will be no cushion for emergencies (like the furnace repair I had last week and the pinhole leak in a pipe this week on my less that 30 year old house). If you sell and split the equity at least you will have a small nest egg.
I was wondering-- because you are now Ded, whatever agreement you make with your ex to buy him out of the house is now just between the two of you, right? A judge won't have to sign off on it? (Gerda, do you know?)
The agreement is there to try to come to a peaceable solution and avoid court.
But it sounds to me like it was a very vague agreement that leaves you open to a lot more BS.
Basically, in order to make you do anything, Dear Lad is going to have to take you to court.
He can't force you to do anything that isn't on that paper.
Does it say, "if" you both agree?
Well guess what, you don't agree!
You can present your case to a judge. Here's what I would do. And keep in mind, this is way down the line. Between now and then, you can keep chiseling away at H's resolve, looking for gradual buy out options and suggesting them to him.
Can's script: Judge, if I sell, I will have this much left. Here are the comps in our area. As you can see, I won't be able to afford a place nearby and our D will have to leave all that is familiar to her after suffering the trauma of losing her dad and seeing her family broken up. Judge, I also only receive X in child support. I agreed to that low amount because I knew I could cover D's housing with our rentals. I can't cover her housing without those rentals, and my own wages will not be sufficient. Judge, I ask the court to allow our D to remain in her home until she goes to college. I am willing to cover the mortgage as long as I get a dollar-for-dollar credit for the payments I make toward principal. Judge, I am also willing to give H a downpayment of $25,000 off his future equity share, which I can finance through a private loan, so that he can set up his new place.
Let's suppose the judge doesn't agree even after you show a ton of comps and what nearby co-ops would require. Then the judge might order you to sell. You can then appeal or delay or whatever you want.
It's basically about how much stomach you have for making H wait.
But what I would really suggest is that you do something drastic, like dividing your house up so that you can rent out a portion of it, or moving into the rental, and that way you can also show the judge how hard you are working to provide a stable home for your child and to preserve the status quo for her. Tell the judge that you have recently returned to work and that H has to give you a few years at least to establish your income enough to take over the mortgage and refinance.
And remember, H has to take you back to court for this. It will take a LOOOOOOOONG time. Send him a really good solid offer that gives him some money down and the rest slowly over time. You can also then show the judge how hard you tried to work out something reasonable so that you could continue to preserve the status quo for your child, and judge, let me remind you, our child doesn't even get to see or talk to her father. I am honored to have sole responsibility, judge, but I need time to be able to provide for her by myself if H is not going to ensure that her housing is taken care of.
Make sure any buy out offers you make are based on appraisal, and that's that. If he starts getting paid out of his equity, he can't take a later price on the house. The buy out is on the price at the time of the appraisal. You could even offer him 1% to hold his share as a private equity line, and you are paying him instead of a bank for the refinance.
P.S. My roof leaks, my basement is wet, but my kids housing is paid for. Better days are coming, I will do the repairs next year. You don't have to deal with everything now and some repairs can go on the credit card and get paid slowly. It's worth it to keep your house if the numbers make sense; KML's formula is good but you have to add to that what is going to happen to the housing market. I assume the value of your house will keep going up.
I assume the value of your house will keep going up.
Gerda- not ever a good assumption. Prices go up and go down - sometimes by a lot. It's fine if you have the wherewithal to stay put and ride it out. Not so good if your situation changes and you're stuck underwater in a house you can't sell (see 2008!). Housing in the long term is actually not that great an investment, despite the experience of baby boomers like myself who got in when prices were still relatively low and saw a boom in housing prices. My current house was worth $600k before the crash in 2008, I bought it for $420k in 2010, now it's worth $600k again.
Housing prices right now in most places in the US are quite high. If she keeps the house and has to sell in the future because the carrying costs are too high, if the value of the house has fallen, she could end up upside down. If she decides she has to move back to the mainland because the cost of living there is too high - she might not be able to if the house is upside down. It's one thing if the house had lots of equity and could be rented out at profit but it sounds like that's not the case.
The one argument for owning right now if one can afford it is that interest rates are so low. And IF there's the potential for putting sweat equity into her property, it might be worth holding onto it. However, being a single mom without experience in housing maintenance/repairs, it would require a lot of effort to learn to do those things that can build sweat equity.
And my point about my current house is that someone who bought into my neighborhood right before the 2008 crash had to wait 12 years for their property to come back to its purchase price.
It is very true that you can't rely on the house value going up. In my case my house is worth almost double what we paid for it and it's how I pay for my kids' housing -- plus there is a ton of marital debt, and taking it out of his equity share is not only the only way to ensure H will have to pay his half of the debt, but it's also a great way to reduce the amount of the buy out.
If you have an aged parent, you can also consider having that parent move in with you for a time to buy out your H if you can carve out a separate space. (And if your parent is really aged, it's worth considering that at some point you may have some inheritance that you can add to the buy out funds.)
I do think that in real estate there is going to be value in keeping a place that you already have because of closing costs and moving costs even if prices dropped a bit. I have done well with that stuff via intuition and a bit of risk, but I am also okay with living very poorly for a little while to do it. If you have an amazing place in Hawaii and can easily rent it and use the rents to pay for a smaller place and your mortgage or be creative in some other way (e.g., another single mom and kid as roommates), that to me sounds like a good investment until you get a clear head and feel more settled about choosing what you are going to do with your life. In my case, I would much rather buy my H out somehow someway, even if it's expensive, and then in a year or two sell my place all by myself without the stress and strain and horror of having to deal with all that crazy anger from him and that voracious Uriah Heep appetite for money from his lawyer.
But KmL's very practical numbers-only-crunching is definitely key!
OK yay I can contribute!
Real estate in Hawaii is a good investment, generally. We didn't take any real hit in 2008. The only time prices have gone down in the last 30 years was after the Japanese crash in the 90s. Unless there is some issue with the home (or if it is in a flood zone and/or on the ocean, with rising sea levels) it is worth holding onto. My best friend is a realtor, owns a bunch of properties and her company also manages rental properties (I sooooooo wish I could introduce her to you because she would take care of you in a heartbeat, but I think we are on different islands). Inventory is very very low and prices continue to go up.
Now the rental market is a different story right now, with the economy where it is both for unemployment and the tourism market... but if you have a renter in your rental unit who has been making payments thus far and didn't need to tap into the rental assistance program with the state, you're probably fine. When tourism comes back, though, I'd definitely look into Airbnb for either the smaller place or if you need more income, moving into the smaller unit and either looking for a long-term renter or Airbnb-ing the larger home. My friend has done this and while she was sad about it at first, she made her little place SUPER cute, she still has access to the yard etc., and her rental income basically covers the mortgage.
If you were open to sharing your #s, when you bought, what you bought it for, what you currently owe on your mortgage, and even the Zillow estimate of the current value, that would help... but I'd be floored if you hadn't been building significant equity. We bought our house in 2012 for $800k. It had been purchased in 2010 for $600k. When I went through comps in my D prep, I'm estimating $1.3 - $1.4m. that does include improvements, but Zillow thinks it is worth $1.1m without any improvements. People that I know that rent out their small units (this is very common here) are generally getting 1/3+ of their total mortgage covered with the rent... and as I mentioned, my friend that rents out the main home has her whole mortgage covered with that rent.
I think you can do it... at least, I wouldn't give up until you really crunch the numbers. I also really think you can lowball him and he'd consider it.
Hang in there.
M
I crunched. Buy Out: $118,000 (that's AFTER my down payment is taken off, and nothing else)..
There are tenants in the rental now, so moving to the smaller place could'nt happen right away. The main house isn't that much bigger. Both places have 2 bdrms.
Main: bigger living area, 2 bdrm & office (not private; vaulted/open ceiling/door has thin-closet-doors.
*Not really an ideal home for "sharing". Has a garage.
Rental: 500sqft 2bdrm. Tiny closets. As wide as a door.
We legally can't do AirB&B/vac rentals. That was our original plan, but an addendum was made so certain residential areas are not allowed to do so. Heavy heavy fines in the thousands of dollars if your caught doing so illegally.
I'm fortunate to have a paying tenant with a steady job. So many people struggling. This is one blessing through this. IF we did have a legal vac rental, we would have been out thousands from the pandemic. Tourisum shut right down. Just picking up again.
So that's that. I'm redoing my monthly budgets. I've done the numbers so many times.
I cant pay him off with that lump sum. He'd have to get payments. And I'd offer less.
He'd probably want $100,000.
Oh what fun. I appreciate the cheer squad. I'm doing a little bit daily to push us forward. Lots of things listed to sell. If we havent used it...lose it. Also working on getting child care assistance. Got my health care assistance already. D4 is covered by xh. If that changes, she'll get help from my plan.
Geez! Chritmas is closing in! Zero gifts bought. Friday I'll get a few.
Be well. Be safe.
Okay!
Don't forget if you were to sell, you'd need to pay the broker fees and closing costs, all of which would eat away at how much he'd take away. Remind him of that when you make the offer.
Can you afford your mortgage payments with the current arrangement between work, child support, and rental income?
What is your interest rate on your current mortgage?
Depending on when you bought and what your current interest rate is, it is possible for you to get a good chunk of that buyout sum out of the equity in your home and still afford the mortgage payments. IDK if that is better-- owing the bank or owing him-- guessing you can work it out with him so that you're not paying interest to him, so if he'd accept payments over time that would probably be the easiest.
And yes-- totally agree on it being a blessing that you have a long term tenant who is doing okay.
TBH I think given that the rental is a 2 bedroom, even if it is small, you probably couldn't charge much more for the bigger house than what you're getting for the smaller one.
Congrats on getting so much done-- child care assistance, health care assistance, selling stuff you don't need-- that is all terrific.
I think the problem with refinancing the home is she wouldn't be able to qualify?
You really need to do the math both ways (keeping the house versus selling) and figure out what you can manage.
IF you can refinance the house to pay off ex OR if he will stay on the mortgage while you make payments to him towards that $100k while quit-claiming the deed to you - you have to figure out if you can carry that financial load.
Alternatively, you could sell the home, take your $100k split, buy a condo if mortgage and carrying costs are less than rent, OR, if that's going to be more expensive than renting, you could rent.
OR you could take your $100k to some part of the country where that buys you more in terms of property. How wedded are you to staying in the islands?
It would be nice if you could afford to keep the rental property and be in a position for the rental to pay your mortgage at some point when you retire but that seems like a big stretch given your current financial status. You're in the somewhat difficult position of having to plan for your future retirement while still raising a small child.
(And speaking of retirement - how does your new citizenship affect retirement? Are you allowed to double dip, from Social Security here and whatever you had in your home country? Is one better than the other? Could you end up with just half the retirement benefits you should have because you only get credit for half a career in one country? Were you married for at least ten years? You need to factor this in to the equation. Is it worth it to stay here if it means less money to retire on? )
Hi May, Happy to hear from you again.
Okay!
Don't forget if you were to sell, you'd need to pay the broker fees and closing costs, all of which would eat away at how much he'd take away. Remind him of that when you make the offer.
Can you afford your mortgage payments with the current arrangement between work, child support, and rental income?
Whatever the final offer comes to, it's an amount I'll need help with.
The current arrangement with work is not looking so good. Hours have been reduced, and we'll be closed for holidays. The New Year looks slow too. I don't know if there will be a need for me. I'm currently in that 90 day probation period, which ends January 19th, if there is even work for me. Looking at other job options.
For now there is the rental income. I do have money in savings, and there is CS. Can I afford the mortgage? Yes, but it'll be dipping into savings. Guess that's what it's there for.
What is your interest rate on your current mortgage?
3.5% on the mortgage. And the other loan is at 4%. Both are in XH name.
Depending on when you bought and what your current interest rate is, it is possible for you to get a good chunk of that buyout sum out of the equity in your home and still afford the mortgage payments. IDK if that is better-- owing the bank or owing him-- guessing you can work it out with him so that you're not paying interest to him, so if he'd accept payments over time that would probably be the easiest.
Bought in 2013. Not sure what he's open to, but who knows.
And yes-- totally agree on it being a blessing that you have a long term tenant who is doing okay.
TBH I think given that the rental is a 2 bedroom, even if it is small, you probably couldn't charge much more for the bigger house than what you're getting for the smaller one.
Congrats on getting so much done-- child care assistance, health care assistance, selling stuff you don't need-- that is all terrific.
Yes, the tenants are a blessing. A couple who have both been through D, so they understand what I'm going through.
Total agree with you on not being able to charge much more for the main house. I'm cutting down my costs in other ways here and there. No A/C during "winter"..lol... (luckily we have solar any way) ..
Thank you for the congrats on the things I have done ; )
Another one of those sleepless nights. Well, I was asleep, with the slider door open, a nice breeze coming through and then I heard loud arguing. It was coming from the house behind me. A very loud tv. Think it was the movie "The God Father". I call this neighbor, Mr. Music Man. Sometimes during the day he will play meditative music very loud. He has small speakers that are pointed towards my house. He doesn't like the sound of my pool pump, which has to run, and is in a box. I sent him a letter letting him know I'll be working to improve the box to cut down on the noise. He not a sane person, so I'm told by both of my next door neighbors. I try not to let him get to me. I have enough on my plate.
I've been listing things for sale and sold my vintage bicycle today. It was bittersweet, as I had a lot of memories, before baby, even before I was married. But, it was collecting dust. It had to go. I've got a few other it's to go. Sadly, they belong to D4. Again, things that are collecting dust and taking up TOO much room. Thank goodness we have a garage! I've got buyers coming on Friday when she's in daycare. Easier to avoid a possible scene.
D4 was asking about her dad today. "When is Daddy coming home?" We were driving around when she asked, had picked up dinner, with the money I got for my bike, I didn't answer. After we picked dinner up, she asked again. All I could muster up was, "That's a good question...." We had a nice sunset picnic, and we didn't talk about XH. I'm feeling like I need to address her question, and I feel bad that I didn't answer her. She deserves to know something.
I don't know where Xh is. An item that he ordered from Amazon, came to house yesterday. It's a kettle bell, for working out. I'm assuming he's unaware it got sent here. Because I know what the item is, and it seems unimportant, I'm not going to contact him about it. He can reach out. I'm not ready to talk with him. Not ready to talk about the house.
The last email I sent him was a schedule of when the best times to contact D4 would be. He had reached out and asked, so I thought that sending him her weekly routine would help in figuring out a time to call. He hasn't reached out again. He continues to be a ghost. To be selfish. He doesn't even contact his parents. He ignores everyone. For him, it's easier than facing them. That's on him.
I've enjoyed not working as much this week and spending more time with D4. Tomorrow we are going to see Santa, Covid style. Why not? It's a surprise
I'm trying to be happy, but I find myself on the brink of that breaking down feeling. Time for a good cry I guess, Release the tears! Not a bad thing.
Okay. Time to try and sleep again.
Ps- I was tired last night..that package that came for xh is from a vitamin store...lol.. shows people working out..lol.. there is not a kettle bell inside..lol..
Still tired.
I'm feeling like I need to address her question, and I feel bad that I didn't answer her. She deserves to know something.
She does, whatever the answer is. I'd simply contact ex and say "D has been asking when you will be home. How would you like to answer this? "
I mean, he may be planning to come see her. Or he may not. You should find out so you can manage her expectations. I mean, you will need to find a way to tell her about the divorce, but her question right now is more immediate - when will she see him? So the answer might be "he's coming to visit you in January" or it might be "he hasn't told me yet" or it might be "he's decided to live with another woman in France and won't be able to come see you until next summer" or whatever the truth is.
What do you think is triggering her asking? Does she associate Xmas with the time when he would be home? Do you think she's overheard things that are making her question whether he'll come at all? Has she been talking to him about when he's coming and he's given her some idea that it would be real soon?
(And yes, your ex is a CREEP for leaving his little girl hanging. Looking back, do you see any signs that he wasn't attached, or that he had narcissistic tendencies?)
Hello Can
I agree with kml. D4 does need an answer. Remember, it’s ok to not have all the answers.
D4 was asking about her dad today. "When is Daddy coming home?" We were driving around when she asked, had picked up dinner, with the money I got for my bike, I didn't answer. After we picked dinner up, she asked again. All I could muster up was, "That's a good question...."
Tell D4:
That’s a good question. I don’t know when Dad is planning on coming home. I’ll ask him.
Stay strong girl. You are doing fine.
D
Thanks kml & DnJ.
Kml: XH hasn't talked to D4 in awhile, and I'm very careful not to talk about certain things when she's within earshot, so no chance of her overhearing anything. She associates Christmas with him coming home.
DnJ: I like what you said for a reply to D4, "That’s a good question. I don’t know when Dad is planning on coming home. I’ll ask him".
That's kind of how I've been steering the conversation, but haven't added the asking dad part.
As much as I want to reach out and have a conversation with XH about certain things, I'm afraid he'll just come out swinging with questions about my plans for the house. Guess I could always say that I'd like to address D4 , and just dismiss everything else, for the moment.
Good Morning Can
I’m glad you like the suggested answer. Adding the asking Dad part gives D4 closure and takes the pressure off you (of course you need to actually ask Dad
).
As much as I want to reach out and have a conversation with XH about certain things, I'm afraid he'll just come out swinging with questions about my plans for the house. Guess I could always say that I'd like to address D4 , and just dismiss everything else, for the moment.
(((Hugs)))
Fear.
Let go of it.
XH’s desire and need to fight and create and reinforce his feelings of justification is just that - His need. His feelings. His reinforcement.
Your fear (and reinforcement of your feeling) regarding the pending fight is amplifying your emotions and paralyzing you.
First off, the “pending” fight hasn’t happened. Second, the fight might not even happen - probably won’t happen. You are making it real, pulling a possible future event forward, and creating present day paralyzing and problems for something imagined that hasn’t even happened. Third, there will be no fight. Yes, read that again. There will be no fight.
You control you. Boundaries my dear.
It takes two to fight. If XH starts a fight - walk away. Tell him, in no uncertain term, “Hey! Listen, I’m not fighting with you. D4 is wondering when you are going to be around to see her, and I would like to pass your answer on to her.”
If he balks or returns to fighting over the house (or anything else), reiterate you want an answer for D4 first, then we can discuss the house. And it is discuss not fight. If you fight - I am hanging up.
You do not want to dismiss his concerns. It’s as you stated, just for the moment, until you get a schedule/answer for D4. By the way, the answer may be he doesn’t know when he’ll be around. That’s ok too. Whatever it is - it is.
Regarding a discussion: Set the ground rules for the discussion. We will remain calm and look at various options. We are working towards finding solution or resolution we both feel is workable. We will each consider the ideas and in subsequent meetings finalize the agreement.
Now, I realize that is a mouthful and earful for XH and his muddled mind. (That’s mostly for you anyhow) He probably wants a quick resolution. It’s ok to think on your feet and listen to his ideas. Get him talking and offering and negotiating. A resolution started from an MLCer has a much higher chance of actually been accepted by them since it is their idea, rather than something proposed by the LBS.
Set aside your fears. By a great margin our fearful projections are much worse than what actually happens. And by the way, once it happens, it is no longer some feared possible future event, it is present and become just another concern to deal with. We do not fear that which is right of in front and being dealt with. Fear is always about a future which hasn’t (and usually doesn’t) happened yet.
The house and the necessary conversations regarding it, have many possible outcomes. You want to feel fearless? Pull the house conversation forward and on your terms. It is no longer imagined. The myriad of possibilities collapses into one present situation; the dissolvement of joint ownership of the house asset.
A while back I advised you to seek and learn what you want; rent, own, move, sell, buy out, etc... To not try to live some arrangement you actually don’t want as that cost is far too high. From what you’ve said, you want to stay in the house. And keep the rental and hopefully the renters of course. In short, buy out XH, and keep the properties and houses.
Go to the bank. Talk to the lending institution and lay out your finical picture. Tell them you want to buy out XH and then have sole ownership and mortgage on the house(s). See what needs to be done to accomplish that. You need answers so you can make a plan and strategy to get there.
Perhaps they would be unwilling to lend with your employment still on probation. Maybe. Maybe not. Nothing to fear over. The bank’s view won’t change whether you know about it or not. However, knowledge is power. Your view and possibilities will change; and you can find a suitable financial path. Perhaps the bank will require 6 more months of employment before lending to you. Good, a timeline. Something you and XH can agree upon and move forward with.
I figure from your crunching of numbers, you feel you can handle the mortgage payment. The $118,000 can probably be whittled down to $100,000 as a lump sum. I would figure that could be rolled into the new mortgage as you are going to need to refinance anyhow. So same payment, just extends the mortgage. And do use a lawyer for this disentangling of asset. Once you and XH can agree in principle, get a lawyer to do the paperwork and all the extra legal stuff, and there is plenty XH will need to sign off.
The laws and rights do vary from place to place. My XW had to sign off on the house, her rights to the house under the homesteader act, she had to sign off on the joint accounts and the overdraft that the house’s equity was underwriting, and so on and so on. That legal expertise is one of the best things I’ve ever spent money on - it’s so worth it.
Did you get your Christmas shopping done? For me, I got all the gift delivered and can now put my feet up.
D
D - I don’t think she actually makes enough to qualify for a mortgage, so she would be depending on a family member to co-sign, which may or may not be an option. It’s a risky proposition. I agree that talking to the bank or a mortgage broker could give her a better idea of her options. A compromise might be to get ex to agree to staying on the mortgage, while she makes the payments and uses the rental income to keep up the property, then selling it in 1-2 years after she has more work track record. But he may not agree, he wants his cash.
Yes, I agree. And certain options are more desirable than others.
Today I took action and I feel good about it.
My day started off with a phone call to see what's happening with our mortgage, as the forbearance period is coming to an end and will need to have action taken on it. I was given authorization to take action, a few months ago, however, the mortgage servicer has now changed hands and they require a NEW authorization form to be submitted by XH.
So, I emailed him. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I had authorization before, so why not now? We'll see if he bites.
*I also scanned & sent him whatever mail came regarding the change over from old to new servicer.
I also thought, since my hands were on the keyboard, it was a good time to address XH about D4, and her wanting to know about her dad. I really hope he has something to say.
Now I'm off to the post office to send out 2 mortgage payments to the new servicer. XH agreed, via text, months ago, that I could write checks for partial payments, from our old joint account. (My name is also on the checks)
Got D4's gifts all ready and they are hidden in my closet. Not much to wrap, as I like to use those cloth gift bags. She's fine with them too. Less mess for mom & we can use them year after year
That's all for now. Taking BIG DEEP Breaths and still breathing.
xo
CanBird,
You sound great! You are shining w/confidence and I am glad you went ahead and notified him about the mortgage, the mail and yes, your little girl. I and hoping and praying that he will respond back and very, very soon.
You have come a very long way and I'm so proud of you!
Merry Christmas to your and your little one!
Good Morning Can
Well done!
As job said, you are shinning with confidence.
Fingers crossed that XH responds sooner than later.
Hiding the kids’ gifts in the closet.
Such wonderful sweet memories.
I made sure the Santa used different wrapping paper. Those particular rolls were never used for any other gifts. Children are so perceptive. They see and put so much together.
Have a wonderful Christmas.
D
I made sure the Santa used different wrapping paper. Those particular rolls were never used for any other gifts. Children are so perceptive. They see and put so much together.
LOL - My youngest is 26 and I still do that
I've not been following along CanBird - but I just wanted to comment on the thread title change. I think that one of the things for many of us LBS to realize is that we actually have most of the power and the agency to make choices. I spent a "lot" of time being passive and waiting for my now ex to "come to her senses".
LOL - My youngest is 26 and I still do that
Yep.
Also need too. Can’t remember which gift was supposed to be from who. Haha.
My sister made some cloth bags years ago and I LOVE them - I should buy some Xmas fabric on sale after the holidays and make some more for next year, I only have a few. They are so fast and easy AND environmentally sound!
Christmas Eve Day. Made plans with a friend and had a fun kids playdate. Us moms got to hang out too which is always a blessing. especially when we manage to have adult conversations..lol..
On the way to the playdate, as we were loading up our wagon, D4 started to talk about her dad again. Wondering and wishing he was here, she misses him. That kind of thing. So I said what came from my heart, in that moment..
Me: "You know how sometimes you like alone time? Sometimes mommy likes alone time... we do fun things when we have our alone time right? Sometimes daddy has alone time, and he does things that are fun for him. "
D4: "But he will be alone, and that makes me sad, I miss him".
Me: "He's okay honey, he's might be traveling or going on an adventure. He works really hard, and now it's his time to play."
Me: "Now let's go on our adventure with our friends and play!" D4: YAY!!!!
So that was a quick moment. And a few minutes later, as I'm pulling her in the wagon she says more.
D4: "Dad has gone way and doesn't want to be with family or his little girl".
Me: (I stopped in my tracks and got down to her level) "Honey, did someone say that to you? Or is this something you just thought of right now?"
D4: "I just thought of it on my own, right now."
Me: "Remember what we talked about earlier, about having alone time? It's okay right? It's something we do and we love each other. I love you, daddy loves you. Does that make sense to you? Do you understand?"
D4: "Yeah, I understand. I love you too"
There will be more to this conversation, but that was what I've started with. About a week ago, she looked in my closet, on the side his clothes use to be on. She was looking for his clothes she said. I forget what I said, but I distracted her. Guess I would figured something out.
As I've mentioned previously, I opened up the conversation to her dad when our D became final, end of Oct. 2020.
What do you want her to know? His only reply was, "I don't know..." Wow. How does that feel? to just drop everything and RUN away from your child? I'm in shocked that he hasn't reached out to her. I am angry. I am sad for her, but mostly disappointed in the kind of father he is being. Unless he is in the hospital or jail, there no acceptable reason for him not contacting D4. I really hope he has some sense in that head of his to reach, even if he leaves a message.
I'm SO glad both sides of his parents KNOW the truth about the ow and where he might be. I believe XH & ow are traveling. Perhaps a honeymoon ? This is why he is not available? And he's selfish. ow knows about D4. I'm shaking my head in disbelief that he hasn't contacted her. When either of my mother-in-laws ask if XH has reached out to D4, that's ALL on him. I've made it EASY for him, given him her schedule: we're pretty much always available. He's clearly not interested. Too busy. Makes me sick. Just cares about himself.
Any way. When I speak to D4 about her dad, I will not speak ill of him. Never throw him under the bus. He's doing a pretty good job of that himself. I will always tell D4 that her dad loves her. I'd like to think that her dad and I are friends, and we can love each other as friends, care about each other in that way, but I'm really disappointed in his behavior. But, then again, this is a MLC/WAS kind of guy I'm dealing with. A ghost really.
MERRY CHRISTMAS friends.
Looking forward to celebrating with D4 & my friends family, that has been our extended family (ohana) always.
Mortgage Broker reached out to me. We'll be talking on Monday. I spoke with my father too, and he's got word back from his financial advisor. So at least I'll have something to talk to the MB about.
Also, finally sent in my application for daycare assistance. I had to wait for proof of 2 months wages. Happy to get that off in the mail today.
Let's hope we get somewhere with both of these.
Good Morning Can
Oh my, what a precious daughter you have.
You are doing very well with the age appropriate discussions and explanations. And D4 is doing really well expressing herself. Do continue being open and honest with her. And yes, there will be more to this conversation; D4 has more she wants to express. She’s a bright little girl. Of course, I know her Mom, and she’s a pretty bright gal. The apple doesn’t fall from the tree.
Me: "Remember what we talked about earlier, about having alone time? It's okay right? It's something we do and we love each other. I love you, daddy loves you. Does that make sense to you? Do you understand?"
D4: "Yeah, I understand. I love you too"
I very much agree with not throwing Dad under the bus. He is doing that well enough all by himself.
You could add something about Daddy’s lack of matching behaviour for someone who (you say) loves his daughter.
Daddy loves you, but he is having trouble showing it right now. That is a difficult item to bring up - the age appropriate cause/reason/emotional turmoil stuff. However, that is world D4 is living in. “I love and miss Daddy. He should love and miss me too.” And when his actions don’t display that... It’s heartbreaking and D4 will need answers.
The biggest message you demonstrate is that none of this is her fault! A child’s world revolves around them, and they feel that everything that happens within their world is because of them. It’s a hard lesson for us to deliver and a hard lesson for them to learn - They are not responsible for their parents’ problems.
What do you want her to know? His only reply was, "I don't know..." Wow. How does that feel? to just drop everything and RUN away from your child? I'm in shocked that he hasn't reached out to her. I am angry. I am sad for her, but mostly disappointed in the kind of father he is being. Unless he is in the hospital or jail, there no acceptable reason for him not contacting D4. I really hope he has some sense in that head of his to reach, even if he leaves a message.
I do empathize with you.
A MLCer can become a terrible parent.
A little counterintuitive advice for you my friend.
“Unless he is in the hospital or jail, there no acceptable reason for him not contacting D4.”
It’s over three year since BD, and W/Mom threw so much away. The pain, torment, and h3ll of a mid life crisis
is an acceptable reason.
It’s your hurt and anger that makes his behaviour unacceptable. The process of grief leads to acceptance and forgiveness. The very “unacceptable and unforgivable reasons” will become forgivable and therefore acceptable. (Really it does happen.) The truth behind all of this: Those reasons and behaviours of our crisis spouse don’t change - we change.
Explain as best you can to your daughter. Live your life. Love her. Find acceptance and forgiveness, and demonstrate/teach D4 how by living it.
It’s a tall order. I know. And one you can well manage. You got time, and you are using it wisely.
Merry Christmas to you and your sweet daughter.
D
Merry Christmas DnJ. Thank you for dropping by. Always nice to wake up and see a post from you. I really mean that. You help SO many of us on here. You're a real blessing.
One thing that I've always said to D4, from a very young age is, "Hearts & Thoughts".
Hearts & Thoughts: When someone we love isn't with us, even if it's someone that has passed away, they are always with us in our hearts & thoughts.
You could add something about Daddy’s lack of matching behaviour for someone who (you say) loves his daughter.
Daddy loves you, but he is having trouble showing it right now. That is a difficult item to bring up - the age appropriate cause/reason/emotional turmoil stuff. However, that is world D4 is living in. “I love and miss Daddy. He should love and miss me too.” And when his actions don’t display that... It’s heartbreaking and D4 will need answers.
This is a difficult one to explain. Why is daddy having trouble showing his love right now? He sent her 2 gifts for Christmas, at least he showed her love in that way. And she's use to him not having contact for long periods of time, so maybe she'll just except that, this is just the way that it is. Daddy is somewhere that he isn't able to talk or video with you at the moment. But YOU are always in his Heart & Thoughts always. When he can reach out to you, he will. Know that YOU are in his Heart & Thoughts always.
A MLCer can become a terrible parent.
A little counterintuitive advice for you my friend.
“Unless he is in the hospital or jail, there no acceptable reason for him not contacting D4.”
It’s been over three year since my BD, and W/Mom threw so much away. The pain, torment, and h3ll of a mid life crisis is an acceptable reason.
Your right. When my BD happened, accepting XH behavior helped me move forward. I need to remind myself that this is his behavior and I can't change it. Thinking of his behavior as a mental sickness/ or addiction, helped me to come to terms a bit easier; helped me accept that he's on a different path, a different way of thinking. His way.
It’s your hurt and anger that makes his behaviour unacceptable. The process of grief leads to acceptance and forgiveness. The very “unacceptable and unforgivable reasons” will become forgivable and therefore acceptable. (Really it does happen.) The truth behind all of this: Those reasons and behaviours of our crisis spouse don’t change - we change.
True. When I speak to friends about my situation, they often ask why I'm not mad as h3ll. And I think the more I've talked with these friends, the more I've taken on their anger. After reading your post today, I responded to a friend in a different way, and used the example of XH having the traits of someone that isn't in their right mind or having an addiction. My friend, just like me, had a different view of XH, and it was an easier pill to swallow. A BIG difficult pill, but it goes down a little smoother.
Thanks again DnJ for always having such good advice. You are greatly appreciated.
Merry Christmas from our house to yours
CanBird & D4
Merry Christmas to you and your little one.
New Thread:
New Beginnings Pt 2