Thread #1:
Questions for a LBS 5 months inQuick notes: H BD Aug 2019, no kids, M 16yrs, EA - April 2019 found out Aug 2019 current status: I don’t know, H lives in basement
Kindly! I’ve been wanting to see how you are but didn’t want to post on your old thread. How are you?
Learning how to link threads...how do people get there previous title above instead of the long ugly URL?
Ready for a long post?? Here we go:
It continues to be a rough week and a half over here while struggling with a nasty virus/infection that has knocked me out. Being off of work and having time to “rest and recover” has not been good for me. I am much better to myself and feel stronger when I’m busy...but obviously had no choice to just be with my thoughts and feelings.
Quick update:
H continues to ignore me as much as possible when he’s home and not working...unless it is to ask me about a L. I hear him talking on the phone when he’s home and it’s like everything is completely normal. This truly makes me feel like I’m insane. One new behaviour is watching tv REALLY loud! In the beginning right after BD he would constantly wear earphones and/or hum to himself...now it’s whenever he’s home the Tv is on at an excessive volumes. I’ve read this on others’ threads ....why do they do this? Distraction? Why has he pulled waaayyy further away again? I continue to ignore him and only exchange minimal pleasantries ...again seems so counterproductive to BD “we are roommates”.
On the L front ... I had some setbacks due to scheduling/illness which of course did not sit well with H. He still wants everything done like yesterday! And lashes out at me threatening court etc...we haven’t even completed a SA!!!
I have educated myself with consultations and have settled on my L choice when I NEED one...I feel strongly that we do not need to involve them in the gathering of documents for the $disclosure...unfortunately H has already proven to be not forthcoming and angry as soon as his business is brought up. The law is the law and I remind myself constantly that splitting marital assets is not me being vindictive....it becomes business. Thank you job, DnJ, cadet and everyone else for that. I drafted a very to the point email to H that after speaking to my L theses are the documents required to start the SA and to pls let me know once he’s collected all of the supporting docs and then we can move on from there. It’s A LOT because of the business. I’m expecting fireworks! I will dig deep to “stay calm and keep dB-ing on” once I get H’s response. If he wants to progress to involving L’s now I will have no choice but to start the process and start the$$ bleed.
Me: I struggle at times greatly with still focusing on H’s behaviour and his total disregard for me. I truly believe there is no turning back for him (will not look within...just not his nature) which squishes my hope. I also feel the longer this goes on it’s becoming harder to respect this person I care deeply about. I found out yesterday that he’s been looking at homes and as much as I struggle when he’s here and am sometimes relieved when he’s not home for a few days (due to work) I’m worried that I will feel another loss and the flare up of extreme sadness when he does go. Such confusing emotions all the time. I continue to try and keep a PMA and dive into my hobbies, my sports and time spent with family and friends.
Fear is still within me, which I believe is party the catalyst when I’m overcome with uncontrollable sadness. I continue to look inwards to learn what specifically I am fearful of and what I can do about it. Irrational or not I feel I fear the loss of the relationship...I fear the lawyer process...I fear my own feelings at times. I fear where I will live....I fear loss of my security both financially and emotionally. I fear the feeling of feeling lost. I fear Im not doing enough to be okay with myself however this turns out. I fear not knowing what I want out of life right now. That’s a lot of fear and unresolve.
DnJ I would love for you to expand on how to influence fear...
Thank you for reading...hoping to physically feel fully better soon so I can get back to GAL.
Hi Cardinal!! Such a pleasant sight to see your message pop up after getting my long post written. I just logged back on today and have some major catching up to do. I will visit your page next. You’ve crossed my mind plenty of times in the last week or so.
H is moving farther along with his running behaviour and has definitely stepped up his ignoring game too. I fear that he will not look back. As you can see above I’m struggling with a lot of questions with fear being at the center of most of it. Im doing the best I can while recovering from a bad bug and sinus infection. When you are weak physically it’s harder to be strong mentally but I know I’ll get myself together again.
Thx for popping by and I’ll head over and check in on you on your thread (((Cardinal)))
Hi
I would embrace the fear..allow and sit with it
It is real..but I found once embraced, it falls away
It comes back and embrace again
self messages are helpful
self help positive u tube videos and positive speakers..very helpful for me
Self care
12 step programs
and yes getting a bad bug does not help
but it will pass too
I can do this
I will be Ok
I will find a way to make my new life work
I am already doing it now
Once we get used to new messages..we will hear those replace the old fear ones
Getting the L in place is great...That was a big load off
D is business...
I am so grateful I stood my ground
My XH was spending alot and putting our business in debt
watch all finances still
I never regret anything I did through the process and Im grateful that Gods
Loving hand fell toward me while XH chose a much darker path
Trust yourself
Thank you Peacetoday. The reminder to let emotions wash over and fall away is so important.
I remember you saying how bad your financial situation got ...I do still have some areas that I need to button up here.
I’m struggling with letting go of ‘schooling’ my shark eyed H. Because I’m a rational thinker I feel strongly about things being done a certain way. The key here is H right now couldn’t care less how S or D get done he just wants it done at any cost. His words consistently say he wants to be amicable and keep things out of court but his behaviour is the exact opposite. He gave me a $DA that 2 separate lawyers said was incomplete and that I in no way had to act upon. I still have yet to hear from his L (which he’s been threatening since Sept). I recently sent a message stating the documents that my L will require once I retain her services. I feel strongly that we can at least gather these documents on our own and save unnecessary cost of L back and forth at this stage. H wrote back that his lawyer has all of the requested documents (which I 100% know is false) and that my lawyer can contact his...while repeating yet again he wants to do this amicably and without going to court to avoid extra cost.
Here’s where I need some ”schooling” please....
I FEEL the need and want to do things my way. Just because he doesn’t care about spending $$ right now and wants someone else to do everything for him, I do not have to do the same thing. I want to write back and state that I’m choosing not to involve my lawyer to gather factual paperwork at this stage and for him to have his lawyer pass along his accurate FD forms to me - this allows me to see how honest he’s being and to also provide my lawyer with the documents he’s left out ...without paying for my lawyer to basically tell him what’s missing after I tell her. Do I have this backwards?? Am I not being rational?
I also feel compelled to point out to him that giving me an incomplete form to give to my lawyer is not doing things amicably and that this is not a good start for how he has stated repeatedly he wants us to behave.
I feel like he’s walking all over me with each factual, emotionless email he sends
I feel like he’s deep in more running behaviour as well as “someone else can deal with it” which is totally his MO.
I’m upset about the L $ that will inevitably be spent but I’m also pi**ed that he’s running the show how he wants.
I really want to write back a well worded response but feel like I’m beating my head against a wall to prove what point? To stick up for myself when I’ve had no voice for so long? HE DOESN'T CARE.
I feel like if I retain my L now and not write anything back to H its me rolling over/conceding and therefore satisfying/ justifying for him. My intent is still to be kind but how do I get his paperwork without L intervention OR at least point out that he is certainly not being forthcoming or amicable? I feel I need some kind of mental satisfaction here ... am I missing an option? My intent is also not to hold him up ...but I will not lift a finger to help him proceed either.
I didn’t think to ask the question: Am I entitled to get his FDA paperwork direct from his layer if H won’t deal with me?
I’m like a circling seagull right now ....round and round I go. Pls someone 2x4 me and stop the cycle! Lol
did he file?
I did nothing except get a L that I would use when XH actually filed
It took my XH about 1.5 years from BD to actually file
he moved out about 4 months after BD
Nope he’s literally done nothing but hand me unfinished and inaccurate financial disclosure docs and keeps harassing me into getting a lawyer. H is at home but talks as if VERY motivated to go.
I feel like I e missed asking the L during consult some obvious questions...as in can he only file if I have a lawyer? And because he has retained a lawyer do I need to retain one for him to move forward? As far as I’m concerned he nor his lawyer have done anything that requires my action.
Kindly,
In my sitch, I retained an attorney. H has yet to do so. I gathered all of our financial information I could - statements of all assets, bank accounts, credit cards, etc. I reviewed his gross pay, mine, what I thought reasonable for alimony, and completed a financial disclosure statement (which has not been shown to H). He has done nothing, except provide a few documents when I said "My attorney needs this". Basically, I fingured out what my bottom line would be without asking/discussing with H first.
I have not filed for D. But, if I did, that attorney would give him 20 days to respond to the petition. You can do the same I would imagine. Let your H fingure out his side. You worry only about you and kids. A financial disclosure statement would be mandatory at that time. So, if you have access to any financial information, yours, his, joint, get it all together. Don't even ask your H. Then present it to an attorney for help. Make copies for the attorney, too. This will save some money.
I interviewed 3 attorneys before I retained, and got a lot of useful advise with each one (for free during the first consultation).
I am new to your story, so I hope this is helpful.
(((Kindly)))
As Peace said, it's o.k. to feel your feelings, sit with them a while, and release them. It will get easier in time, and less cloudy on the business end.
Hello Kind
I like the thread title. That’s a good heading.
How to for a nice looking link:
url=https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2878653&page=1]Questions for a LBS 5 months in[/url
From the line above I removed the first character “[“ and the final character “]”. Else wise it would become a hyperlink and it is harder to show the syntax.
The command is “url” and “/url” ends the command. The square brackets encase the command. See below, again without the [ and ].
url=<web address>]The text you want to show instead of the web address[/url
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Here’s where I need some ”schooling” please....
I FEEL the need and want to do things my way. Just because he doesn’t care about spending $$ right now and wants someone else to do everything for him, I do not have to do the same thing. I want to write back and state that I’m choosing not to involve my lawyer to gather factual paperwork at this stage and for him to have his lawyer pass along his accurate FD forms to me - this allows me to see how honest he’s being and to also provide my lawyer with the documents he’s left out ...without paying for my lawyer to basically tell him what’s missing after I tell her. Do I have this backwards?? Am I not being rational?
Kind, this is business. A deal gone sideways. Remember that.
I understand you FEEL a want and need to do it your way. Do not make decisions based mostly on feelings.
Rational is more logic and reason. Irrational is more emotions.
Pure reason doesn’t have emotions. And pure emotion is devoid of reason. We are both. We are rational and irrational creatures all bundled together. It takes time for our emotional side to catch up with our logic and reason.
Find a lawyer and be prepared. Let your L do the heavy lifting. This is most likely the biggest decision and agreement of your life - use a lawyer.
Also your sanity is worth more than the few bucks you’ll save. And a lawyer will provide peace of mind that nothing is missed.
Your above statement shows a lot of control and trust issues with H. Well obviously DnJ of course it does. (I can almost hear you saying that lol). Therefore another set of eyes, those of a dispassionate legal counsel, will be so worth it.
You don’t have to push for anything - yet. Just ask questions and see what your L recommends.
I feel like he’s walking all over me with each factual, emotionless email he sends
I feel like he’s deep in more running behaviour as well as “someone else can deal with it” which is totally his MO.
I’m upset about the L $ that will inevitably be spent but I’m also pi**ed that he’s running the show how he wants.
I really want to write back a well worded response but feel like I’m beating my head against a wall to prove what point? To stick up for myself when I’ve had no voice for so long? HE DOESN'T CARE.
Breathe.
Do not make major decisions from that place.
Vent here and let go of those feelings.
I feel like if I retain my L now and not write anything back to H its me rolling over/conceding and therefore satisfying/ justifying for him. My intent is still to be kind but how do I get his paperwork without L intervention OR at least point out that he is certainly not being forthcoming or amicable? I feel I need some kind of mental satisfaction here ... am I missing an option? My intent is also not to hold him up ...but I will not lift a finger to help him proceed either.
I know you want to point things out to H. And some satisfaction would feel good - really good. But, look big picture.
Focus on you.
...am I missing an option?
Yes. Focus on you.
Ensure financial security and protection. And if or when H pulls the trigger, be ready.
Remember this is business. Stay in the intellectual car. Use logic and reason.
Pls someone 2x4 me and stop the cycle! Lol
Bonk.
- - - -
DnJ I would love for you to expand on how to influence fear...
Me: I struggle at times greatly with still focusing on H’s behaviour and his total disregard for me. I truly believe there is no turning back for him (will not look within...just not his nature) which squishes my hope. I also feel the longer this goes on it’s becoming harder to respect this person I care deeply about. I found out yesterday that he’s been looking at homes and as much as I struggle when he’s here and am sometimes relieved when he’s not home for a few days (due to work) I’m worried that I will feel another loss and the flare up of extreme sadness when he does go. Such confusing emotions all the time. I continue to try and keep a PMA and dive into my hobbies, my sports and time spent with family and friends.
We all struggle at first with focusing too much on what our spouse is doing. It takes time to shift our focus and attention from that train wreck. Dig for patience - like your thread title says.
Focus on you. Detach. Find indifference. Let go.
This is a process, and yeah it’s harder than it sounds. Be gentle on yourself.
Fear is still within me, which I believe is party the catalyst when I’m overcome with uncontrollable sadness. I continue to look inwards to learn what specifically I am fearful of and what I can do about it. Irrational or not I feel I fear the loss of the relationship...I fear the lawyer process...I fear my own feelings at times. I fear where I will live....I fear loss of my security both financially and emotionally. I fear the feeling of feeling lost. I fear Im not doing enough to be okay with myself however this turns out. I fear not knowing what I want out of life right now. That’s a lot of fear and unresolve.
Influencing fear.
Acknowledge it. Realize it is from you. You make yourself afraid. This is good. Because you control you. Therefore you can influence your fear.
Fear is irrational. As I said earlier rational is logic and reason devoid of emotions. Fear is emotion. Intellect has no fear.
Fear is an uncontrollable emotional reaction or response to a possible future event. If that event happens, there is no fear because it is now reality. It becomes just a problem or concern to deal with at that point.
As you can see, rationalizing fear helps. It is similar to detachment. One uncouples the irrational bond between possible event and triggered emotion using rational thought. Seeing it accurately. This is not done quickly. It takes time and goes hand in hand with many other steps along one’s path.
Fear is our response to a trigger. And in true fearful fashion we actually don’t see the underlying cause - we are afraid to look. One needs to be rational and logical, and dig.
I feared the same things you do. You’re not alone in that, I guarantee.
I feared the loss of my relationship. Why? Dig. I don’t want to be alone. People will blame me and look at me differently. Why? I don’t want to get old alone. I define myself by being married. Why? I’m afraid to die old and alone.
That is a very short summary of my fear of loss. There are many reasons - abandonment, responsibilities, etc... Still after one digs deep enough most fears rise from our own imagined future pain and suffering.
So, I am afraid to die alone. To be alone.
Followed logically and rationally found. Now to do something about it.
I realized my relationship was already over. Hard to afraid of something that has happened. But, my fear wasn’t the relationship - it was being alone.
I poured myself into me. I found me. I defined me - as a single guy not a divorced guy. I also have four amazing kids. I have friends. I am not alone. Ok, I’m alone at a deep level, I also have a fair bit of caring company.
I uncoupled my irrational emotions of being alone by... being alone. I went on walks by myself. Stargazed alone. Went out for suppers alone. Etc... Slowly changed my irrational belief about being alone. Influenced it with rational thought and positive actions.
During these activities I allowed myself to enjoy them. To feel something other than alone. Pretty soon alone gets tied to those good emotions from the activity. Fear has nothing left to feed off, it withers.
I fearlessly live my life. Not reckless, fearless.
Fear and worry is like praying for something you really don’t want. We live our lives expending so much energy into worry and fear over something that might happen. Energy we could invest better.
There are many possibilities. Lots of good outcomes happen and get little notice. But something bad happens and we focus upon it, far more than when the good happens.
Most of what we fear never comes to pass.
And if it does - deal with it then.
D17 is gone for the night and I’ve got a dark sky and stars to look at. Doing pretty good as a single guy.
DnJ
(((Grace))) Thank you for your insights and for taking the time to write on my thread. It is very helpful to hear how these first steps in the process go. Despite having a couple consults with L I feel like I always walk away with more questions. I think at some point I need to let go of control, be as prepared as I can be and get good help.
Thx Grace.
You are the best DnJ!
Thank you for the url/clean title tutorial and thank you so much for making me smile ...”bonk”
Your advice and insights are invaluable and always so kindly written...thx for taking the time.
This is such a good place to vent and then get the reality check / 2x4 ...I managed to avoid sending 2 questionable emails thx to you! Sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action.
Kind, this is business. A deal gone sideways. Remember that.
Thank you. I might get this tattooed on my forehead.
Rational is more logic and reason. Irrational is more emotions.
I feel because he won’t talk to me at all, any correspondence I do get activates my irrational emotional side. I’m getting better at talking that voice down but it takes up so much time and energy constantly trying to keep your mouth in check.
Your above statement shows a lot of control and trust issues with H. Well obviously DnJ of course it does. (I can almost hear you saying that lol). Therefore another set of eyes, those of a dispassionate legal counsel, will be so worth it.
Lol!! This made me laugh and is also a very valid point. I think in the near further I’ll be digging deeper on “control and trust”
Pls someone 2x4 me and stop the cycle! Lol
Bonk.
^^^lmao! Much needed! And I think it worked ...for now.
- - - -
I will read and reread your insights on fear DnJ....my eyes are so heavy as I type this I need sleep.
D17 is gone for the night and I’ve got a dark sky and stars to look at. Doing pretty good as a single guy.
DnJ
Beautiful!! You’re doing soooo well for yourself AND helping others. These small moments we take for ourselves are sooo big!
Goodnight for now.
I had a L in place but did nothing else until XH Filed
My XH did not ask me to do anything, but he mentioned his destination time and again
He knew he was leaving..It was just a matter iof when
He knew he would eventually file and he did
As long as u have everything in place, and you can watch the finances and take your name off shared credit cards
Perhaps spilt money in account sooner than later....
remember they lie and if OW is in place, they nag them and they want as much money as possible
they no longer care about us and in some cases, htye also abandon the kids
I think the MLCer will plan and plot the money issue...If we are not smart and business like here, they will lie, cheat, hide, steal and try to get us to let them take control of the finances in the D process
This is the time to get strong for the fight, but as long as you can moniter funds and cards,, you can leave the filing to him and just ignore his D talks
Let the L handle all the disclosure stuff
dont sign anything
Thank you peacetoday. Your post reminds me how comforting and empowering it is to “take care of business”. I’ve managed to erase some of my fear and emotions and get going on the process of protecting me as best I can.
H has done nothing but constantly threaten that his L will be in touch, threaten to get an agent into the house, started looking at homes...so I know it’s no longer a matter of “if” he goes but “when” and “how” ...(does it play out..if only I had that crystal ball!!)
I’ve had a great couple of really strong days, work is going really well and I’ve had some wonderful dinners with friends. I’m seeing so clearly right now and feel very in control of my emotions for the first time since August! I have found a L
I like and will retain her shortly. have found some very helpful paperwork that I didn’t think I would have access to (big win) and I just generally feel some strange sense of peace right now. I hope it’s not fleeting.
Kindly, I love that you’ve had some good days and are taking care of business, feeling strong. You ARE strong! I think it’s good to remember that even if the sense of peace goes it will come again, maybe for longer.
Thx (((Cardinal)))!!!
I can’t help but notice that H has strayed from his usual pattern of home and away days for work. I find the timing interesting that as soon as I comply with getting a L he has gone for over a week without a peep.
I find myself slightly dipping back into the headspace of “what the heck has he told people”???? My mind wanders back to my MIL being extremely flippant and cold almost as if I had ruined his life.... I don’t know maybe I’m rewriting history based on other people’s behaviour and words. I honestly can’t believe 8 months have almost gone by!!
Is there a DB-Ing way to see where H is at, hear what he’s thinking ....anything?? Without getting into the weeds with him. Today I feel like my detaching and his lack of presence in the house is solidifying the path to D. As much as I do understand that my behaviour has little to do with his crisis or his choices right now, I’m finding the deafening silence in the house WHEN he’s here unbearable at times. I feel like I’m still doing well in GAL...but something (other than the obvious LOL) seems off and intuition is telling me to poke the bear....I’m also aware that I could get more poop thrown at me. I’m not even looking for a R talk or anything specific just some sort of life beyond the shark eyes and hiding. Am I playing with fire? Any suggestions....is it really to continue leaving him alone?
Hi
This is no way to know whats inside their head
They give mixed messages
sometimes totally absent sometimes nice and close
they are confused and sorting through the demons in their head
Consider using the time to heal you-
let him go..or work on letting go
read about letting go, 12 step programs are helpful when dealing with difficult people and situations
support groups, coaching or therapy
new hobbies, call or help someone else
church or spiritual, take up singing or music, dancing or gardening
cry share and detach
live for you-
you will heal despite his choice to leave or stay
we all do
just takes time and all you are going through is the path and process to acceptance-
Hi Kindly, I haven’t read your whole sitch....but YES leave him alone!! If you catch yourself being consumed by the thoughts of him being at home but not really there, maybe it would help for you to get out of the house too.
Always post here first before you want to poke the bear. Chances are you shouldn’t.
As for the threats with L....you can’t control what you say, but you’re in control of how you respond. Or lack thereof. Let him talk his talk.
Hugs!
The silence can be grating, can't it? But then you get used to it just in time for some little thing to change again. Pretend like the bear is hibernating!
He needs
a lot of time in his own cave before he's able to interact with you in any real way. Maybe try some headphones and a podcast if you don't want to go out and it's bothering you? Or do something that will take your mind off of how silent it is and also distract you from dwelling on MIL (who, we know, doesn't have the full story). You know my go-to is baking, but it could be organizing or taking an online class in something you're interested in... have you tried the website Skillshare? They have a free trial period, and you can try out different classes. Hang in there!
Hello Kindly
...intuition is telling me to poke the bear....
Do not poke the bear.
It sure feels counterintuitive doesn’t it?
I’m not even looking for a R talk or anything specific just some sort of life beyond the shark eyes and hiding. Am I playing with fire? Any suggestions....is it really to continue leaving him alone?
Remember anything and everything can and usually is pressure to a person in crisis. A big part of your path is letting go and moving forward. The idea of outlasting MLC, if you like. You didn’t break him, so you can’t fix him.
I do understand your desire to know what is going on in his head. However, there is no real way. MLCer are confused and driven by, and run from, emotions. They change their minds all the time - just like emotions change all the time.
When H is silent, is the best chance for stuff to percolate in his mind. And he needs lots of percolating. Be the roommate and keep moving forward. Compassionate indifference.
Poking at him is playing with fire. And what I mean by “poking” is attempting to see what he is thinking about. He doesn’t know why or what is going on. An MLCer blames their spouse for the problems, and therefore justifies their behaviour. You don’t want to fed that irrational rewritten truth.
The LBS lets them be, and hopefully the MLCer realizes that their spouse hasn’t been bothering them and yet their problems still remain. Therefore it can’t be their spouse’s fault and they look inward. That is the basic idea.
You can still talk and respond to him. Just be roommate-like with suggested activities (if you want). Hey H, I’m going to the store you want to come along? (Expectations at zero) If you want to try something when he is around.
Letting him talk, and listening, reveals clues to “where” his is. He just needs to feel like it. Anything more forceful will most likely be met with force.
So we move forward. Find ourselves. Heal. Take up activities; old ones let go long ago or new ones we are eager to try.
We can become the best versions of ourselves in the midst of all this.
DnJ
Kindly, Just checking in to see how you are doing. New to this forum and trying to reach out and catch up on others' sitch. Hope you are hanging in there with all that is happening in the world. Sending you good thoughts and peace. Blessings
Hello DB friends, hope everyone is keeping well and doing their best to take care of themselves and others during this time.
Thx so much for checking in on me Believe6, and dnj, Cardinal, Wooba, peacetoday for your comments and wisdom. I’ve been MIA for a bit to take care of myself and others. My plate has been very full between work and unfortunately worry. I had family members that were out of Country and like many, I was very concerned about their safe arrival back home which finally happened a couple of days ago. On top of that I became very sick again (respiratory /pneumonia) and was trying desperately to avoid a hospital visit/stay with everything that’s going on. I’m out of the woods now and feeling quite a bit better, just not 100% but getting there. Again like many I will also find out next week if I’m laid off work. All in all it’s been a lot and that’s not even mentioning MLC fun.
UPDATE: since I last wrote...I have retained a lawyer at his constant and repeat demand to “get a lawyer”. Right out of the gate I couldn’t be happier with her...she sent the most PERFECT correspondence to him (I think anyway)...basically stating that she has been retained, my intention is for reconciliation and that she awaits his or his lawyers correspondence. (I think it’s brilliant because he wants to take NO responsibility for any of this). Meanwhile she has all of my organized documents and is fully aware of my “unique” situation and his potential beezare timeline. This was 2 weeks ago. NOTHING has happened ....no further contact. As of right now he too is off work so the last 2 weeks have been fully spent in the house together. I don’t even know what to say anymore about his behaviour. At times it seems so normal it makes me think I’m crazy and this is not MLC ...but then I did a bad thing the other day and yes I had a snoop!!! I’m not proud of it cause I haven’t done that in so long and of course it helps NOTHING! I now know he has added numerous EXPENSIVE dinners to his spending spree as well as a tattoo of some sort to go along with his bike!!!! I find he’s always whistling or kinda humming something and just generally seems very content and happy with life. I feel like there is ZERO reflection or thought happening on his end as he sits almost all day and watches movies or plays video games. As much as I’m off his roller coaster, being around this all day ... hurts. The behaviour is still very confusing. At times I’m completely ignored, then he’ll ask if I want wine or food. Just when you start to see a glimmer of “hmmm maybe at some point he could come out of this”, he reminds you that he’s still an alien with one sentence referring to you as his “ex-wife”!!!! Wtf... we don’t even have separation papers yet....easy tiger!
I’m finding it very difficult right now being isolated IN the house with him and being “a distant roommate”, especially when he’s popping up to talk about the virus or to tell me something about work. It’s too “comfortable” for him again and he fully sees me as someone he used to be married to.
ME: working a lot right now (prob till next week), talking on the phone a lot with friends and coworkers, cleaning, baking (Cardinal!!!!!), got out in th garden for an hour yesterday, but truthfully just generally feeling numb. Numb to everything that’s going on right now globally and personally.
Thx for reading, hope everyone is well.
Xo
Kindly, it’s good to hear from you! I feel for you. It’s not easy living with these Hs, especially now. I’m struggling to get used to the new normal of being at home.
I find he’s always whistling or kinda humming something and just generally seems very content and happy with life. I feel like there is ZERO reflection or thought happening on his end as he sits almost all day and watches movies or plays video games. As much as I’m off his roller coaster, being around this all day ... hurts. The behaviour is still very confusing.
I could have written pretty much the same thing (and I guess I have, in my thread lately). I saw a break in the content mood last night, so I guess we’ve got to keep in mind things are not always as they appear. It seems their apparent happiness is a fragile one. When I was seeing H intermittently before all this and he was being friendly, I must have imagined maybe he was a changing a bit, but in close quarters now it also seems there is zero reflection on his end and no more maturity. Just distractions.
I am baking too. What have you made lately? I’m also enjoying this time to be out in the garden, although the temp is supposed to drop tonight, so I guess I need to cover the seedlings later today.
((Kindly))
My gosh...so funny...read my post on your thread knowing that I hadn’t read your post here yet!! SOOOOO parallel.
And I asked about your baking and even the garden! Too much xo !
I’ve made my famous (by fam standards) chocolate chip pecan banana bread, I tried my hand at scones ...not too bad but I’d like another try...I think I over worked the dough. I was thinking of trying 3 ingredient peanut butter banana I’ve cream ....not too sure about this one we’ll see. I’m a sucker for ice cream and chocolate!!!
I just uncovered my asparagus patch the other day ...they should be poking through the soil in the next few weeks...
(((Cardinal)))
Kindly, I read what you wrote above and on Carindal's thread. Please be good to yourself. As your handle implies, be kind to yourself. Breathe. Find ways to drown out your thoughts. I put some ideas on Cardinal's thread and I think it applies to you too. Whatever you do, let things play out on their own. You already got the lawyer. So there's no response. That's fine. Right now is all there is. Make each moment a good one. Your good one. For you. Blessings!
Thx Cardinal and B6 -
I’ve very quickly gone from H asking if I’d like food he’s made or wine yesterday to him irresponsibly leaving the house to get “packing supplies” today. I kindly asked him not to subject himself - and therefore me - to unnecessary risk to this virus by going out to stores which aren’t necessary right now. (Esp since I am in a very high risk bracket with this thing and a pre-exsisting condition ) His response was that he is bored and needs to start packing stuff up, and he’s tired of watching movies etc....I responded with there’s no telling how long this will go on for and everyone is in the same boat, perhaps read a book or walk or bike ride. I followed up with I’m not telling you what to do but would appreciate the consideration of being responsible during this time and avoiding unnecessary risk. He came back inside, told me he ordered stuff online - to which I’m responded thank you that was a better decision- only to turn around an hour later and go to the store to get storage bins!!!!!! Is this seriously part of the confusion.
He’s been outside for hours and it sounds like he’s literally taking apart the garage. What is he packing? And where is it going??? And do I care??
Do I say anything, do anything or just continue to ignore and act “as if”???
I feel like I’m right back to month #2 with him on a mission to go -only work got in his way for 5 months I guess. Now with everything shut down he’s bored, stir-crazy and prob fighting demons that are staring him in the face and NEEDS to go again. But to start packing stuff up with no separation agreement or anything moving further along with lawyers....what the heck is he thinking (rhetorical question - I know he’s not!).
What’s a LBS girl to do??
And WHY is he singing out loud all of the time!!!!!!!? I guess someone did say things will get crazier .....
Protect yourself as much as possible during this time. Your h is a man/child and like most teens, will hear what you have to say and then the exact opposite. You are lucky he ordered stuff online. His brain is fried and he may very well think that the virus may not ever touch him....but it's everywhere and going to the store to get storage bins is not a necessary errand in my books.
As for the sounds he's making in the garage...well, "mom" that his way of taking out his frustrations at you and the world as it is right now. He feels trapped and bored...he's not emotionally mature enough to realize or care that we are all in the same boat.
The more you point out the health risks of this virus, the more determined he will be to do the exact opposite, i.e., just to prove you're wrong. You've cautioned him and asked him politely not to go out, etc., so there's not much more you can do about him running around. Wash everything down, especially the things he touches when he returns home. Maybe it's a good thing that he's out in the garage banging around.
Dig deeper for patience and do whatever you need to do to keep your family safe. BTW, yes, things will be a bit more crazier as time rolls on, especially if he has to remain at home.
Hi
It sure is a difficult time and living with a MLCer only adds
Once mine moved out, there was calm like instantly
just take care of yourself, maybe its good to keep the physical distance between you and him at this time
Thank you both peace and Job, I’m so glad to have found this site and feel like I’m in a much much better detached headspace than only months ago. It now is just a matter of trying to navigate these stuck in isolation waters with H.
He’s out in the garage today “packing” ...I am doing a very good job of avoiding him and staying silent right now but how do I respond/react when I eventually have to go out into the garage and see everything in boxes? I have no idea what he’s packing up or where the heck he’s taking it for that matter. Do I acknowledge or just ignore what’s happening under my nose? Do I ask any questions or leave him be to carry on as he wishes right now (unless he’s putting me at risk for this virus- so far that’s the only time I spoke up)
Peace....I am in a much clearer space now where I can see that the calm & peace will come immediately once he moves out. That is miles from where I was even a month ago, when the thought of it would make me cry uncontrollably.
Thank you all for the support xo
If I were in your shoes, I would just let him pack away. He's frustrated and he's finding things to do and hoping against hope that the virus disappears over night. When he is elsewhere, I would take a peek at what he's packed up. If there is anything that you think you will need, then remove it from the box and store it in a safe place. They have a tendency to take things that we won't miss until much later. BTW, he doesn't have a clue as to where he's taking the stuff either...unless he's seen some ads where the storage facilities are allowing people to store stuff there for a while (ads that actually pertained to college students kicked out of dorms, etc.).
The more you draw attention to what he's doing, the more determined he will be to continue doing it. The less said, the better. Now, if he begins packing up the inside of your house, now I think I would have to call him on that.
For now, observe and listen. As I mentioned, when he's elsewhere, take a good look around your garage to see what's missing. I'm sure he's not going to be to stay at home for much longer because, like a teenager, he has this need to be free and out from under the same roof w/his family.
Stay safe and above else try to stay healthy. Leave your man/child to his packing...I would bet money on the fact that he won't be able to find a thing when it's time for him to need something. He will swear you hid it and it will be right there in one of those boxes. It's happened before to others. Dig deeper for patience. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
Kindly, you’re doing well dealing with H’s craziness! I wish I was in that place of feeling stable and detached again. It would frustrate me so much that he went out after he ordered online. SMH. And your baking sounds delicious.H made banana bread last night and then has been sharing it with me in between telling landlord about D and work! The “royal wedding scones” recipe from Food52 was a favorite of mine for a while. They’re really great to keep in the freezer and bake as needed. I’m thinking about finally trying to tackle making some sourdough starter this week. At least it will keep me focused on something.
The more you draw attention to what he's doing, the more determined he will be to continue doing it. The less said, the better. Now, if he begins packing up the inside of your house, now I think I would have to call him on that.
So he started loudly packing inside tonight, but it seems like only in his man cave. I refuse to give him the satisfaction of looking in the garage much to my own detriment! I needed something out of the freezer and changed my whole meal plan just to avoid going out there! I can be stubborn. Hahah!!! But I will look soon in the interest of protecting myself.
Stay safe and above else try to stay healthy. Leave your man/child to his packing...I would bet money on the fact that he won't be able to find a thing when it's time for him to need something. He will swear you hid it and it will be right there in one of those boxes. It's happened before to others. Dig deeper for patience. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
Thx Job this made me laugh!!! I can TOTALLY see that happening. I feel like I’m in a strong detached place right now. The only time I get hung up is hearing the new audio cues of “I’m leaving you” with the packing and banging. But I tell myself nothing is new and there is no call to action for me. I’m finding that’s where my panic and anxiety comes from - is feeling like I’m not doing something I should be ....like he’s packing so I should be getting my stuff together!!! What for I’m not goin’ anywhere yet!!! The breathing and stopping become important in these situations.
Can I take a poll - once I do look in the garage I fully expect to see storage shelves taken down and prob mostly his work stuff packed up. How do I behave? Do I :
A) say nothing / acknowledge nothing has changed
B) ask where he is taking the stuff
C) use this opportunity to ask about his lawyer and where the process is at
D) put everything that is packed up out by the curb
Lol just kidding on option D !!!!
Another question;
I would like to set up our outdoor furniture but do not want to invite his nasty comments of “why bother ...we are leaving”...etc
How do I respond to that kind of behaviour from him? It’s always so venomous and yet no plan of action from him (except for the packing) so unless he has a place he’s going to that I don’t know about ...I’m not too sure how fast he thinks things are going to move here....
I’d like to say “ can you please stop harassing me and threatening me with your nonsense, especially when I haven’t heard back from your L yet? Where is she now that I finally have mine settled”.... I’m going to assume I should clean that up? But how? Any advice for this and my above question in the previous post? Obviously it is not my intent to push anything along faster but I get tired of the mental abuse. Can I point this out?
Thx so much! 😊
If you want to set up your outdoor furniture, by all means do so. If he comes back w/some nasty comment, just say...as long as we are in a stay at home crisis, I would very much like to be able to sit outside and enjoy the weather.
His comments are just his way of venting and yes, to buy you to death. When something pops out of his mouth about the divorce, just say "h, I am sorry you feel that way" and walk away. You do not need to listen to his spew.
As to your poll, I wouldn't say a word. I would just sit back and watch/wait. He may be taking his frustration out on the "stuff" and felt like he needed something to do...but most likely most of that "stuff" will remain in boxes and not moved.
If you don't want to rush the process, then do not engage in conversations about his lawyer and where everything is at the moment.
Dig deeper for patience, walk away when he starts talking about the divorce and one more thing, try to sit quietly..the answers will reveal themselves in due time.
Thank you Job,
I feel like things are suddenly flaring up again with both being stuck in the house. He is clearly becoming agitated again and I’m starting to see behaviour again back to month 3-4. Running behaviour, excessive exercise and drinking again, mini L bomb drops...
One funny thing is how much more time he is devoting to his family...pre BD it was me always pushing/suggesting that he take a break from work. I know every MLCr is different, but it sounds like most distance themselves from family? I wonder why he’s not..esp since they are on the surface close but not deeply close if that makes sense.
I was so preoccupied thinking about what I was going to say if he confronted me about the patio furniture or his packing of stuff that I got slightly blind-sided tonight and def could have handled it better than I did. I’m still really working on validating and not letting my “common sense” and slight disdain for his behaviour interfere with my reaction...I think I said to much. I think that is my problem I’m always still “reacting” instead of being a passive passenger. Here’s the bulk of the convo:
H said “we need to talk about everything”
Me: sure about what?
H: the house and what we are going to do with it?
M: I know my lawyer has contacted yours, and last we spoke you wanted to do everything through the L
H: no I didn’t.
M: you did and I have the emails but regardless what would you like to know?
H: what we are doing with the house? I’m not waiting a year to sell it.
M: I don’t know. I don’t think we can do anything right now in this current global situation and I also think we need to complete the FD first ...
H: mine is done
M: does my lawyer have it?
H: I think so...but they can’t tell us what to do about the house
M: no but I would think the FD is the first step before any of the house decisions can be made so let my L know once your L has all of your papers together
In a nut shell....he deems he can’t move out (buy) until he gets the money out of our house. He has to complete a FULL business disclosure which I know for a fact will take months and hasn’t been done. His rush to run is not my emergency. I did my best to deflect and put things back onto the L’s and him really. He can go rent as far as I’m concerned.
I don’t know how I could have said less and I could feel the “tone” in my voice. How do I dig deeper and not engage in this nonsense when he try’s to bait me. Most the time i find that “I’m sorry you feel that way” doesn’t apply...do I just need to say “I don’t know” more?
Also Job, I am astonished at the time and advice people share on this forum and how helpful and accurate it all is. I can’t thank you all enough this has truly been a guiding light in such a dark time. I think I’m starting to focus a little too much on the sitting quiet and answers will come. Sorry to sound so silly and literal but sometimes I feel like I don’t even know what answers I’m looking for. Is it as simple as - I used to blame myself a lot more but now I know this was not my doing? Or I still sometimes think “what am I going to do without this man I love”...but know do realize this currently is not the man I love(d). I keep asking myself what is his “childhood drama or trauma” and I can’t come up with anything that would have thrown him into this....I feel like there’s homework I’m not doing or questions I’m missing that would give me further clarity.
Sorry for the long post - him kicking me in the knees again got the mind swirling.
Thanks for being here. (((Hugs)))
I think You handled it amazing
right to the point
and yes His MLC is not your emergency
if he has to leave the home let him
Im not sure if you can keep the house, or if you have kids?
I kept my house, but the L will know
...A good L is #1 priority here
This is a business deal
right now there is no where for him to run
No way the house can be sold
and the L will guide
especially your L
The MLCer will take everything for himself
No care about spouse or kids
If he brings it up agin...you can give him more of the same what you already said
well done
Kindly,
It is not your job to figure out what his childhood trauma may have been. It could very well have been comparison between two children, i.e., your h not being as intelligent as a sibling, or he could have been bullied, i.e., there are any number of things that may have been a "trauma" which would have stunted his emotional growth. He is the only one that can face those traumas and work through them and accept that he was not at fault for what happened. Unfortunately, even if you knew, you couldn't fix his problems because you weren't at fault for them.
When you say sit quietly and the answers will come...the answers will come when they are good and ready. He may open up and provide info that will help you connect the dots. Many of them will eventually start talking and when they do, you will need to really listen, not offer up advice..,.just listen. Later, that conversation will play over in your mind and you will discover some tidbits that will help you better understand where he's coming from in his crisis. Trust me, when you sit quietly, the answers will be revealed, might not be today...but tomorrow or the next. When we drop the rope, focus on ourselves we will learn more that way. Fighting the urge to fix things and just allow things to flow naturally and turning your h over to God to drive the bus and not taking that wheel back each and every day will help not to prolong his crisis. One thing that I learned early on...you can't force the answers to come to you...they will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The homework is to work on yourself, detach more, just listen and validate, dig deeper for patience and the most important thing...keep the focus on you. You can't fix him...you didn't break him. This is his journey of self discovery and you have your own journey to travel, i.e., to rediscover you! It is an opportunity to work on you, the list of things that you've put off doing, and to think about the person you were years ago...do you want to be that person again? If so, this is the time to think about any changes that you need to make for yourself, not to convince him to stay.
Also, I would try not to discuss the legal matters as much as possible. I would refer him back to his lawyer and let the lawyers do the work, after all, they are getting paid to do so. Try to remember, you can't have a rational conversation w/someone who is emotional and bouncing off the walls. The more you attempt to explain things, the more he will become angry and irritated. Best to keep conversations short and to the point...as their emotions are all over the place.
I know living w/a MLCer is difficult. I've been there and done that. It's not easy especially now that we are in a major health crisis all over the world and we are having to share space w/them or dealing w/them on a daily basis.
Gosh Job is brilliant and grounded. I am taking her words of wisdom for myself too. I hope, Kindly, that you are finding moments of peace and clarity. That outside this forum you have people who can support you, reflect back to you, and remind you of who you are. I find that when I feel trapped by this situation and the circumstances of the world today, having someone who has a clearer mirror of who I am than I do (or than the H does for sure), I am able to think more about what I need to do to actualize self-care. Some of the self care stuff has to do with addressing my pain and what I've ignored. Some of my self care is about laughing more, learning more, allowing myself to not be strong all the time...
I am sending good thoughts into the universe and whatever power you believe in. Blessings
Thx peace, Job and B2-
and yes His MLC is not your emergency
if he has to leave the home let him
Im not sure if you can keep the house, or if you have kids?
No kids...just H and I...I’m hoping to stay put but it will truly depend on how the financial works out which he doesn’t seem to think is the first step in all of this.
If he brings it up agin...you can give him more of the same what you already said
well done
Also, I would try not to discuss the legal matters as much as possible. I would refer him back to his lawyer and let the lawyers do the work, after all, they are getting paid to do so. Try to remember, you can't have a rational conversation w/someone who is emotional and bouncing off the walls. The more you attempt to explain things, the more he will become angry and irritated. Best to keep conversations short and to the point...as their emotions are all over the place.
Thank you both...so bang on accurate...I feel confident finally in my new line “ya I’m not sure ....talk to your L” or “hmm not sure have your L talk to my L”. Thank goodness I’ve read examples on here of MLC spouses trying to make “deals”. Without giving too much detail mine just offered me “extra time” to stay in our house while he uses some joint finances to leave.....ummmm no.
Gosh Job is brilliant and grounded. I am taking her words of wisdom for myself too. I hope, Kindly, that you are finding moments of peace and clarity.
Thx B6 I am. It took awhile but I’m in such a better place now. And yes, Jobs words of wisdom and calmness is really quite remarkable. I find such peace in the advice and insights offered by job and others on here...people that have been there done that and as you mentioned and that are seeing clearer than we are.
Many of them will eventually start talking and when they do, you will need to really listen, not offer up advice..,.just listen. Later, that conversation will play over in your mind and you will discover some tidbits that will help you better understand where he's coming from in his crisis. Trust me, when you sit quietly, the answers will be revealed, might not be today...but tomorrow or the next............(edit) One thing that I learned early on...you can't force the answers to come to you...they will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
I really look forward to the day he says anything other than complain about work (pre virus) and now the virus and being “stuck” in the house. I will def have to dig deep and keep my mouth shut and ears open. I understand a little more of the sitting quietly...thx Job.
I know living w/a MLCer is difficult. I've been there and done that. It's not easy especially now that we are in a major health crisis all over the world and we are having to share space w/them or dealing w/them on a daily basis.
Truth. For me it’s the swings from almost the H I married to shark eyes! It’s really quite astonishing. I’m doing much better at not trying to figure it out but letting it play out as it will...right now it’s just the banging around and packing that’s causing me anxiety.
I am sending good thoughts into the universe and whatever power you believe in. Blessings
Thank you B6- I accept and spread my arms to share with all others (((heart)))
Journaling ~ So interesting couple of days in the covid quarantine household. The change in H’s mood and behaviour towards me in the last two days has been nothing short of dramatic. Sunday it was L this and we need to talk about selling the house and yesterday and today it has literally been normal conversation, some jokes shared with laughs, helpful with numerous little things around the house and some things that I was specifically working on...lingering longer in common spaces.
I can honestly and wholeheartedly say that my expectations remain at zero. I’ve read enough on here to know that this in no way signals a sudden change of heart on his end. Heck It could just be loneliness with this lockdown.
But why such a seemingly dramatic change? Major major glimpses of H and much less confusion and hurt on his face if that makes sense. Despite me carrying on and focusing on myself (and making awesome meals I might add) I can’t help but feel a little nervous like he’s up to something. Does anyone have any insight related specifically to a big change in behaviour even tho it’s only been two days? Is it usually followed by some form of another BD? I just like being a little prepared. Again I’m in NO WAY feeling like “he’s coming around” but this is the first time in almost 8 months I’ve seen anything close to “normal” behaviour so I’m finding it kinda confusing/ interesting. (For lack of a better word)
What you are witnessing may be moments of clarity. They do swing back and forth emotionally. Sometimes it could be an action, conversation or even a reminder of some sort and it will send them swinging the pendulum the other way. Now, in my case, whenever my xh was pleasant or chatty, I knew it was up to something, something that would really annoy me, i.e., like a teenager who goes out, drives the car and then scrapes the side of it and doesn't tell you.
Here's another example, he never purchased flowers, cards and candy on Valentine's Day or anniversaries. So, when he did this the last year before flying the coop, I knew he had been up to something...that something was the ow and I point blank asked him what he had done and he said "nothing"...just wanted to show my appreciation for you being my wife. So, the guilt came into play w/him and that was one way I knew he was up to something and lying.
Some won't exhibit this type of behavior, but a large majority of them will. I'm not trying to upset you and you should continue as you have been. He very well may be feeling a bit better and is chatty...but listen closely to that chatter. You should be able to sift through it and learn some things. The more chatty he is the more likely he will let something slip.
Continue as you have been, keep the focus on you as much as you can and stay safe.
Thx for the insight job. Anything you could say 100% doesn’t/wouldn’t upset me. I’m so thankful for the advice, time and support given by yourself and other on this site. I mentioned to dnj the other day that people like him, yourself and this community are a direct reason that I’m doing as “well” as I am 7 months in.
My expectations strongly sit at zero even though sadness/frustration and hopelessness in the sense of “why can’t he see what he’s doing” may at times creep in. It’s amazing how even as things unfold, the confusing behaviour persists.
After two days of “normal” behaviour as I described above ...H has gone back down the rabbit hole. I overheard a couple of conversations with L and maybe his accountant where it sounded as if he hadn’t really started anything yet. After another conversation overheard today, I believe he has now engaged his lawyer ... according to him a second time because he supposedly already had and was surprised my L has heard nothing...I don’t believe any of this. He is also shocked that his business is on the table....things are sadly going to get interesting.
I find it interesting dnj that your H’s pleasant behaviour was usually hiding guilt. Maybe that’s the same for me. He’s taking further steps along the process and feels guilty? He asked today for a full grocery list of what he could pick up for me from the store right after telling me that his L should be in touch with mine and do I have my stuff ready to go? (I know full well he doesn’t...as he also disclosed how much getting a B eval was going to be $$$$$ therefore it hasn’t been done)
Oh well as I know less focus on him more on ME!
I believe this isolation is making him more antsy and dedicated to go. He told me today that his L commented on how many calls they have been getting for D of people not getting along! And how busy they will be once the courts open again. My response was “ ya that’s so sad that there are probably so many people in a situation where it really doesn’t need to come to that but such is life”...he didn’t clue in at all to what I was getting at. Maybe I shouldn’t have said that I dunno.
If they feel guilty why can’t they stop the run away train they are driving?
Personal update: so happy to finally be able to do some work in the garden....just the sun and progress of cleaning up feels so good!
Hope everyone is well (((hugs)))
Good Morning Kind
Sounds like H had a couple of days of clarity and zoomed back into the rabbit hole. They really can’t, at the moment, face their pain or what they’ve done or are doing. These small moments of clarity are them peaking out, I do believe, are good signs - but don’t focus on them - of progress along the MLC path. As more and more peaks out of the tunnel happen, more and more clarity accumulates for them. The path back to emotional stability is not a jump, it is the summation of many small movements over time. Most definitely a marathon.
I think you are correct, the current situation is making H more antsy to leave. However, dedicated? That remains to be seen. The majority of crisis people talk big, act like they have everything figured out, and seem on top of the world. Yet they move actually rather slowly towards leaving in the absence of pressure.
My XW seems to be an anomaly, blowing up, destroying everything, and moving out all in three hours. As I said, pressure, we don’t know the pressure they are experiencing. They have a lot of internal pressure which they attempt to project upon the LBS. Your H has his perception, his reality. Continue to keep your interactions reasonably pressure free and focused on you.
For example, have you set up the patio furniture? If so, good for you. If not, set it up, this weekend, today. You need not explain anything to H. Just do it. And if or when he wants to poke or pick a fight do not engage. Just look at him and say “What bugging you? I’m just setting up the patio furniture so I can sit outside.” Don’t even stop setting it up.
Then enjoy the sun and the beautiful day.
He told me today that his L commented on how many calls they have been getting for D of people not getting along! And how busy they will be once the courts open again. My response was “ ya that’s so sad that there are probably so many people in a situation where it really doesn’t need to come to that but such is life”...he didn’t clue in at all to what I was getting at. Maybe I shouldn’t have said that I dunno.
I like what you said. It responded to his comment, putting forward a nice spin on the idea of just how easy it is to get a divorce, and that people don’t need to jump to that as soon as something gets rough.
However little acknowledgement and validation of what he is feeling and saying. Not a big deal. You answered fine, not leading to any fighting. But....
You are right, H didn’t clue into what you were trying to tell him. Did you clue into what he was trying to tell you? Was there a why he was telling you something?
The skill of active listening takes time to develop. The listening to the entire statement before crafting a response. Most of us listen to respond, we need to listen to understand. Then respond.
MLCer’s do drop clues. H is speaking with his lawyer, he told you. He also knows there is not much going to happen until the courts open again. He has a feeling/belief that people aren’t getting along, so it seems normal to him.
This was just him talking at that moment due to whatever he was feeling at that time. Feelings change. Later he would say something different.
Acknowledge and validate first, then depending on how things are going, you could put forward a response. But in all honesty, H isn’t ready to hear it, and no where close to being ready to listen to it. Remember you’re not speaking with a rational person. The vast bulk of the work falls to you, the sane person, the lighthouse, the beacon - I know, unfair. Sorry.
Just passing along a bit of counterintuitive steps for the LBS’s path and growth.
By the way, acknowledging and validating without attempting to modify or change the person is very detaching and promotes compassionate indifference.
If they feel guilty why can’t they stop the run away train they are driving?
A person haunted by guilt doesn’t think clearly. Guilt is a strong powerful emotional force, you don’t face it with your feelings, you face it with rational thought and influence - like you do fear. MLCer’s are not rational people.
MLCer’s emotions are running flat out. They have guilt, fear, pain, elation, despair, joy, sorrow, anxiety, depression, excitement, defeat, and on and on. So much pressing, so much pressure, so much confusion.
A person running on emotions is running from something. And usually trying to bury it by running to something - sex, drinking, spending, whatever. They are not sitting silently letting answers reveal themselves. Their train is roaring along. It takes time to slow down a train.
I am glad you are getting to the garden. It is still too early for much yard work here; need a few few more weeks to get to better weather.
Have a great day. Hope you’re sitting out on the patio getting some sun.
DnJ
Hi, Kindly! Happy Easter. I wasn't surprised to read your updates about your H's shifts in behavior, because the same thing has been happening with my H. After he mentioned D to our landlord, he seemed to be increasingly at ease and joking with me, sharing food, etc. But he has his moody moments for sure, and he usually withdraws to his room on the weekends and becomes less chatty.
I believe this isolation is making him more antsy and dedicated to go. He told me today that his L commented on how many calls they have been getting for D of people not getting along! And how busy they will be once the courts open again. My response was “ ya that’s so sad that there are probably so many people in a situation where it really doesn’t need to come to that but such is life”...he didn’t clue in at all to what I was getting at.
Oh man. I've been thinking about this a little, reading about people being stuck together and having trouble. It seems to me that, as H and I are ostensibly in the middle of a D, as he sees it (though he's never filed and has never pressured me to do anything), it is incredible that we can cooperate with groceries and be friendly and civil in the house at this time... it's almost as if we could be married. Almost as if there is some foundation to our M worth working on. Lol. It's mainly because if he is moody, I ignore him, and I am always striving to be kind and patient, as I know you are too. I think most people in our situations would be ready to argue or explode if they weren't trying to get their spouse to reconsider or talk about why they're acting the way they're acting. I mean, it boggles my mind how "easy" he's had it the last ten months, with no pressure, outward anger, or judgment from me. And of course your H didn't clue in. It's this whole other reality...
DnJ and Job have such helpful and thoughtful responses always. I'm glad you're asking questions here, Kindly, because they help me too.
I hope you're enjoying more time in the garden!
Hi Dnj! Hope you had a nice Easter Weekend. I have to apologize for the H typo in my last message I meant your W!! I just get so used to typing H! Sorry about that.
For example, have you set up the patio furniture? If so, good for you. If not, set it up, this weekend, today. You need not explain anything to H. Just do it. And if or when he wants to poke or pick a fight do not engage. Just look at him and say “What bugging you? I’m just setting up the patio furniture so I can sit outside.” Don’t even stop setting it up.
Then enjoy the sun and the beautiful day.
Yes! I did ...all of it! I also did a tonne of yard clean up and gardening this weekend and it was super productive and enjoyable. I love your response suggestions. Sometimes that is where I get hung up - in the “what should I respond with” while keeping it at a minimum.
Thank you also for the feedback on my last encounter ...it’s super comforting to feel like I have a secret cheerleader / coach
and that I did alright!
However little acknowledgement and validation of what he is feeling and saying. Not a big deal. You answered fine, not leading to any fighting. But....
You are right, H didn’t clue into what you were trying to tell him. Did you clue into what he was trying to tell you? Was there a why he was telling you something?
The skill of active listening takes time to develop. The listening to the entire statement before crafting a response. Most of us listen to respond, we need to listen to understand. Then respond.
This is such a valid point Dnj ...a skill I could totally work on to improve. Being a “fixer, a do-er” etc etc I find I’m always quick with a response, an answer, a solution...and could benefit from fully understanding. This is a great skill to add to ones arsenal ...now how and where do I start? Are there questions that ARE suitable to ask the MCLr to learn more?
I feel like if I break down that previous conversation he really isn’t saying much except for ‘other people are doing this too’ therefore offering him both validation in that he’s not alone and perhaps in his mind justifying his decisions and behaviour. I also feel like him mentioning his L or threatening the sale of the house are his only two ways to ‘keep me in check.’ Not that I’m putting ANY pressure.
So on that note I had another unkind run in with shark eyes yesterday. He had confrontation written all over his face...so I did my best to avoid him. Part way through the day we had a conversation about saving on some insurance. I was immediately met with criticism and ‘why would you bother’ comments. I responded calmly with me “bothering” didn’t effect you and you can choose to apply or not...your choice. He walked away pissed and mumbling something so I asked if he was alright or if something was bothering him? FIRST TIME IN 6/7 months I’ve asked anything! Oops.
H: what do you think? No far from it!
M:what’s wrong? you look upset or angry.
H:umm nothing I’m fine but ...you don’t know how you’re behaving!
M: how am I behaving?
H: i don’t know, it’s how your behaving or something ....we have to sell the house.
M:sorry you feel that way but I don’t know what you want me to do about that right now...
H: Yesterday you and your comment about the garden and plants and moving things around doesn’t make sense because we won’t be here in the summer
M: (here’s where I may have come off too strong again) ok. Sorry you feel that way. I know this is not what you want but again in this current situation I’m not sure what you would like me to do. In the meantime, I will put out the furniture, I will work in the garden and enjoy myself as best I can during this stressful time. Right now you have a roof over your head and food in the fridge so I don’t know what to tell you...you may have to figure something else out. I would however highly appreciate it if you would stop harassing me about having to sell the house. I am trying to be friendly and respect your wishes during this time ...have I given you any other impression? I’d greatly appreciate you not adding more stress onto a stressful time. Have I misunderstood anything? Is there anything else you’d like to discuss?
H: No I’m fine.
M: ok because you don’t seem fine ...I’m here to talk about anything at any time but not to be harassed with something I can do nothing about right now. Is that ok?
H: yes.
Okay. So I know I came across WAY too harsh at the end and I also said WAY too much. In my slight defence I’ve been waiting a loooong time to say SOMETHING...and I chose him constantly bringing up removing my home from me as a boundary that needed to be set for me right now mentally. How could I do better!? It reads like I was finger wagging but I promise I wasn’t!!!
I know he may not retain any of that and he immediately retreated to his cave with door shut and all. Interestingly enough about an hour later he came out, went to a store and started sending me text messages (first time in 8 months) to ask if I needed anything. Today same thing grumpy grumpy all morning and went for a an actual grocery shop (with a list we made together) and has been texting about the lineup and making jokes for the last hour. I feel so detached I’m noticing the behaviour and doing my best to not let it affect me or influence any of my behaviour. I wonder what I can learn from this other than how confused he is? Is there a message between the lines I’m not hearing Dnj?
Have a great day. Hope you’re sitting out on the patio getting some sun.DnJ
Thx Dnj It really is nice to steal a few moments of sunshine and work outside when I can. I will most definitely keep that up. Hopefully all is well with you and that you weren’t too busy with that crazy wind storm yesterday!!
Thx for the long read all! (((Hugs)))
Kindly, I think you did great. I don't think you said too much. It's hard to know how they will take ANYTHING we say and in any tone we use. You are right in saying he probably won't remember half of what you say. Sometimes I don't remember either. We get so worked up and trying so hard not to say the wrong thing, we can get ourselves confused.
If you keep speaking from a place of love, detachment, acceptance and peace, it will come across that way. We are allowed to speak our minds from time to time and to forgive ourselves if it pushes them back a little. We are still human. We aren't saints, although it takes one sometimes to deal with all we've been dealing with.
Just remember who you are in all this. Keep working on being true to you. React from your values and not your feelings and it will all work out.
I am trying more and more to take deep breaths when I am feeling especially triggered and remind myself of my values--- love, compassion, understanding, strength, courage, hope, faith, empathy, non-judgement, etc.
If I ask my inner self (the universe, God, etc) to help me to speak from the place of my core values, I do better. Doesn't always work. I still can get triggered, but I try. I hope this helps!
Good Morning Kind
Yes! I did ...all of it! I also did a tonne of yard clean up and gardening this weekend and it was super productive and enjoyable.
Excellent!!!
Good for you setting up the patio furniture and enjoying the yard.
This is such a valid point Dnj ...a skill I could totally work on to improve. Being a “fixer, a do-er” etc etc I find I’m always quick with a response, an answer, a solution...and could benefit from fully understanding. This is a great skill to add to ones arsenal ...now how and where do I start? Are there questions that ARE suitable to ask the MCLr to learn more?
I do understand the being quick with a response, an answer, a solution - allow yourself the luxury of not needing to solve it; the luxury not needing to have an answer.
When one approaches a conversation looking to understand first, then do (response, solve, whatever) - we inject that necessary time and collaborative mindset to find a win-win outcome. Of course, this works much better with two rational people, but hey you got H, and he is where he is, emotional and irrational. By the way, during confrontational conversations, and difficult conversations like performance management and disciplinary action, there is a lot of irrational emotions going about too.
This is a great skill to add to ones arsenal
A skill of understanding and getting to people’s underlying reasons is powerful, and can be used as a weapon. Don’t.
I know you just meant this as an expression. However, your mind is listening. Arsenal weaponizes this. Use toolbox, repertoire, abilities, skill set, etc. All those little things accumulate.
I bet you see this differently from just that one little word change.
This is a great skill to add to ones toolbox.
As for what is suitable to ask. Well, like most things - it depends. I know, a wholly unsatisfying and yet completely accurate answer.
It depends on what, where, and how the other person is doing, being, and behaving. That quickness of your mind will be very useful here - the ability to change gears quickly. A lot of time it is to shift into reverse and back out, then go into neutral.
The main idea, respond to what they say, and don’t dig too much.
I think you did a fine job on your conversation. I am running late and leaving for work right now, I could, if you want, give a few ideas of what I see from your conversation. Don’t worry, it’s not too critical - and hindsight is always 20/20.
I will add that your ending, the part you are worried about, the big paragraph - don’t worry! That is great! He needed to hear that. You are not a doormat. It is well stated and boundary-like. It also sets up future boundary responses if needed.
Have a great day and enjoy the weather.
DnJ
Just remember who you are in all this. Keep working on being true to you. React from your values and not your feelings and it will all work out.
I am trying more and more to take deep breaths when I am feeling especially triggered and remind myself of my values--- love, compassion, understanding, strength, courage, hope, faith, empathy, non-judgement, etc.!
Thx so much for the support B6 - your words absolutely help. From a “someone who gets it” stand point, and as always a reminder for us in this high emotional time. As my name implies, I want to be as kind and compassionate as I can be throughout this. Thank you.
When one approaches a conversation looking to understand first, then do (response, solve, whatever) - we inject that necessary time and collaborative mindset to find a win-win outcome. Of course, this works much better with two rational people, but hey you got H, and he is where he is, emotional and irrational. By the way, during confrontational conversations, and difficult conversations like performance management and disciplinary action, there is a lot of irrational emotions going about too.
Yes, the irrational side of things caused by emotions is where it gets tricky (I’ve dealt with this in my professional life as well and you are correct). The other thing at play for me here is the confusing feelings of detaching but still obviously caring about this person and knowing that they are not “well” but don’t know it themselves. I detach, I focus on myself, I repeatedly tell myself I’ve been fired and this is what he wants and that I’m not the cause of this...but even as it comes to the business side of things I feel my emotional mind attempting to take over. For example ~ I just recently made a big move to protect myself financially that I know is going to affect his “plan”...instead of being fine with my ‘business decision’, I’m worried that he is going to get himself into a financial mess by borrowing or doing something silly to get extra funds to facilitate his running behaviour. How does one detach from the “he’s going to mess himself up bad worry”? We’ve worked so hard to get to where we are and I can’t believe how bad he’s jeopardizing us and HIMSELF. I’m struggling with putting these thoughts to rest. I know I must.
This is a great skill to add to ones arsenal
A skill of understanding and getting to people’s underlying reasons is powerful, and can be used as a weapon. Don’t.
I know you just meant this as an expression. However, your mind is listening. Arsenal weaponizes this. Use toolbox, repertoire, abilities, skill set, etc. All those little things accumulate.
I bet you see this differently from just that one little word change.
This is a great skill to add to ones toolbox.
Great point! It’s like having a headache and saying “my head is killing me”. I did just mean it as an expression as you pointed out, however your point is very valid ...the mind is listening! And yes it’s amazing how one word change makes all the difference. When we get caught up in just responding instead of understanding it becomes quite easy to fling the wrong words out into the universe. I’ve definitely been guilty of this...choosing speed of response/reply over accuracy Of choosing the right words sometimes.
I think you did a fine job on your conversation. I am running late and leaving for work right now, I could, if you want, give a few ideas of what I see from your conversation. Don’t worry, it’s not too critical - and hindsight is always 20/20.
I would love that when you have time Dnj ~ your support and insight is invaluable to me! Thank you.
Thanks for the thumbs up on the last bit of my convo I appreciate that in a time when there has been such a lack of conversation Between H and I that it is easy to replay things a million times and wonder if you ‘done good’?! Lol!! I was hoping I set a good boundary there. Thank you.
Despite the wonderful sun it’s cold out there today. I will still get out for a bit.
Have a great day at work!
Talk soon
What you are witnessing may be moments of clarity. They do swing back and forth emotionally. Sometimes it could be an action, conversation or even a reminder of some sort and it will send them swinging the pendulum the other way. Now, in my case, whenever my xh was pleasant or chatty, I knew it was up to something, something that would really annoy me, i.e., like a teenager who goes out, drives the car and then scrapes the side of it and doesn't tell you. .
Oh how right you are Job. Between yourself, Dnj, peacetoday and others (not to de-value anyone’s input...I love you all!) ...he totally was up to something.
After months of harassing me about selling the house (with nothing in place, no agreement or lawyers at the time), And after ignoring my lawyer for over a month, his lawyer has finally made first contact with mine and wants F disclosure in 2 weeks! Ha! There’s a fire again!!! This coming this morning after a day and a half of shark eye behaviour, me setting a boundary and then me having my H back for the last 2 days ~ I made dinner and offered some to him after he did a massive grocery shop for us both. He wouldn’t stop complimenting the dinner and even had dessert I baked. He was helpful, kind and almost looked ‘normal‘. Then right back down the rabbit hole.
A little sad today with too much reflecting on what ‘if’s’ and what’s next. So thankful for the foresight on so much of this. It makes me as calm as I can be when these things transpire. Thank you all. (((Hugs)))
Oh, Kindly, I’m sorry H has popped up with the speedy timeline again. It would seem the time at home has got him desperate to feel like he’s making “progress.” Just the business side, like the vets say. You’re already so strong and, yes, kind. You’ve got this even if sometimes it doesn’t feel like it. I can’t imagine not getting stuck in the what-ifs/what’s-nexts for a bit, because I’m there intermittently, but just bring yourself back to the wonderful brownies you made and enjoying the patio furniture. Let H speed up and find there’s nothing magical to make him happy there.
Aww thx Cardinal! I love your messages (heart). Isn’t it funny how nothing REALLY changes but these, let’s call them flare up’s of H’s, always seem to cause an emotional rumble in me (us). I’ve seen many postings, and it’s so true, we’re only human after all. Hmmm I like that song ...think I’ll go play it loudly! Although then he might pop out of his drug induced, video game playing, secret phone call taking rabbit hole...on second thought!! Haha!
Hope you’re well Cardinal and yes brownies and my backyard are a beautiful joy right now. Hope you’re back to baking too! Xo
Good Morning Kind
The other thing at play for me here is the confusing feelings of detaching but still obviously caring about this person and knowing that they are not “well” but don’t know it themselves.
For me I look at this as two separate items - detachment and indifference.
Detachment means you are not uncontrollably dragged around emotionally by H’s emotions, or behaviour. You have uncoupled your emotions from his inputs. Detachment also means you still feel.
Indifference is when your emotions towards H become muted. At this point, feelings do surge back and then fade again, each cycle getting less frequent and decreasing in amplitude. It takes a while to get used to having no feelings - it feels wrong. Completely counterintuitive to what one thinks they should feel.
The void left behind from those feelings will press, demanding to be filled. Nature abhors a vacuum. Temptations and other feelings will look and appear much larger than they really are, when against the backdrop of the indifference of the void. Stay the course, even that feelings will wither. After all, feelings change. Follow your beliefs.
I detach, I focus on myself, I repeatedly tell myself I’ve been fired and this is what he wants and that I’m not the cause of this...but even as it comes to the business side of things I feel my emotional mind attempting to take over. For example ~ I just recently made a big move to protect myself financially that I know is going to affect his “plan”...instead of being fine with my ‘business decision’, I’m worried that he is going to get himself into a financial mess by borrowing or doing something silly to get extra funds to facilitate his running behaviour.
Make your decisions based upon rational logical thoughts. Yes, one’s feelings do go against some “business” decisions - perfectly normal. Remember feelings change, let them. Do what you know is right, and allow your emotions to catch up. Have faith, they really do catch up.
How does one detach from the “he’s going to mess himself up bad worry”? We’ve worked so hard to get to where we are and I can’t believe how bad he’s jeopardizing us and HIMSELF. I’m struggling with putting these thoughts to rest. I know I must.
Realizing and worrying about the potential problems and mess that H may get himself into is the first step.
It’s not detaching from this worry, it is becoming indifferent towards it. That is accurate. And when things are seen accurately one can find their way easier.
I do hear you - “I’m struggling with putting these thoughts to rest. I know I must.” It’s not your thoughts that are at the base of this struggle. It’s your emotions.
Your thoughts are being influenced by your feelings. Use your thoughts to influence your feelings.
You made a business decision, using reason and thought. Your emotions are naturally pushing back. That influences your thoughts and induces worry; a nice little self feeding loop. Uncouple it, and let it wither.
Worry and doubts about your decisions will look and appear larger against the backdrop of the void of indifference as well. Mountain vs molehill.
You must protect yourself and have security. You are still the most important person in this equation. Yes, H most likely will make some major financial blunders; you don’t want to get wrapped up in that.
You control you, not H.
He is going to do what he is going to do. Your compassion allow him the freedom to do it - well accurately he’s going to do it regardless. Your compassion leads to indifference and the ability to forgive both him for his actions and yourself for not stepping in.
That, I think, is one of the hardest demonstrations of caring. Compassionate indifference.
DnJ
DnJ - thank you so much. You have such an amazing quality of digging deep into the subtleties of words. I’ve re-read this three times and often re read previous messages that are so full of valuable lessons and insights. Taking the time I need to focus on not just my thoughts but HOW I think has been so productive and positive for me. I am so grateful for all the support and wisdom (from all) and this time to stop and just be with myself....most of the time right now anyway.
The void left behind from those feelings will press, demanding to be filled. Nature abhors a vacuum. Temptations and other feelings will look and appear much larger than they really are, when against the backdrop of the indifference of the void. Stay the course, even that feelings will wither. After all, feelings change. Follow your beliefs.
I’m starting to trust myself again which is giving me my strength back
I love these next few ...I will re-read!
Make your decisions based upon rational logical thoughts. Yes, one’s feelings do go against some “business” decisions - perfectly normal. Remember feelings change, let them. Do what you know is right, and allow your emotions to catch up. Have faith, they really do catch up.
You made a business decision, using reason and thought. Your emotions are naturally pushing back. That influences your thoughts and induces worry; a nice little self feeding loop. Uncouple it, and let it wither.
That, I think, is one of the hardest demonstrations of caring. Compassionate indifference.DnJ
I love the days when I feel the compassionate detachment/ indifference. The longer this carry’s on I find validation for myself, in the “I’m not crazy or imagining this” sense, when I stop and put into perspective what he has ‘accomplished’ in such a short time. The list of opposite behaviour to his ‘old’ character is actually quite stunning/appalling...when I think about the lies he’s told family and that I assume he’s told friends I wonder what they think...how can they not see the change in him? How do close people in your life just turn away and bury their heads? I don’t expect anyone to solve our problems but not even a question? Seems so wrong to me....but such is life...and on we go.
Thx DnJ as always!
Peace and love all,
Xo
Hi, Kindly. How are you doing? I’m glad you are finding strength in yourself. For me, it comes and goes.
how can they not see the change in him? How do close people in your life just turn away and bury their heads? I don’t expect anyone to solve our problems but not even a question? Seems so wrong to me....but such is life...and on we go.
Sometimes I ask these questions and doubt myself—maybe I’m exaggerating the changes. I would like to get to the point where I don’t doubt or question myself. I still dream about talking to MIL and getting some validation, but I know I really shouldn’t need it. As you say, on we go. No need to get stuck in the questions; I’ll just acknowledge them when they come.
The vaping is bothering me less, so I guess I’m making progress in indifference there! I hope you are well and finding moments of joy and contentment.
Hey Cardinal ~ had a bit of a slump towards the end of this week. His anxiousness to go makes me so nervous in this current global situation. He’s already taken from me my closest love, my companion, my best friend, he’s severely dented my self confidence, my health both mental and physical and now he’s threatening our financial situation as well as (our) my home and roof over my head. I am getting stronger and regaining control over myself every day, but it all still hurts. These feelings definitely come and go For me too.
I find myself at a loss for things to say when it comes to the total destruction in really 5 short months:
Me and my family dropped, EA, possible PA, Reinventing history, excessive exercise, motorcycle purchase, change in clothes style, excessive money spent, excessive drinking, tattoo, lies, drug use = I KNOW I’M NOT CRAZY. I hate how I have to go over these facts though to remind myself that I’m not exaggerating or imagining things.
Journal ~ YOWZERS!! Something has changed. He is not only down the rabbit hole again, but seems to be angry and/brooding. I heard him on the phone with L yesterday so I assume he got some information he wasn’t counting on about the business. I’m not too sure what to expect once this starts to become a financial reality for him? I know there’s nothing I can do but let it play out but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little scared. I don’t know who he is when he’s like this.
I also don’t know if there’s a way I can make him see that making these big changes in the middle of a pandemic and economic downturn is not only irresponsible but unfair. Anything I do or say will come across as holding him back. Am I really stuck here letting this play out ....? Anyone got any strong advice for slowing a runaway train down? It’s not even about him and I and our relationship at this point it’s about living and not adding even more stress to an awfully stressful situation.
Thoughts?
Xoxo
Kindly, I definitely hear you on all this. If it didn't hurt, we would be running and not processing, right? You/we hurt for all of these very valid reasons, and you are getting stronger every day.
I don't know what it's like to have that kind of pressure coming from your H, though I've had glimmers of it, when H seemed all set to move forward before Christmas. The anger and broodiness is real, and even when we are doing our best to focus on ourselves, well, it changes the temperature in the house, doesn't it?
It seems around here MLCers don't take the financial realities too well! Maybe hope for the best, prepare for the worst applies here. You have a L who will help you look out for you. I don't think you can make H see or understand the reality of what making these big changes will mean during a pandemic and economic downturn, but maybe the financial reality will give him pause, and maybe, even if he's only thinking about how it will affect him right now, he won’t be in such a hurry.
Reducing stress for you: one step at a time through this process. Plan as well as you can for yourself and maybe think of it as letting things play out without spending too much time worrying about all they ways they could potentially play out. One step before worrying about the next step. That said, I would be feeling all of the same things you’re feeling in your sitch. The financial stuff stresses me out big time. I think it was May who pointed out that so many people are facing the unknown right now in the face of this pandemic, and we’re not alone in wondering what the future will be like.
(((Kindly)))
Bad day today for me ....just listening to him laugh and laugh and tell stories on the phone....
Here we go again...the full return of shark eyes. I left the house to drop something off at my sisters yesterday and today I just noticed 6 more boxes packed up out in the garage. I returned inside to see that he emptied all of the bedroom drawers of his cloths and part of his night stand where he rummaged through and mainly took notes and cards I’ve given him. WHAT THE? (Cardinal ...I think you’ve mentioned something similar)
ZERO legal stuff sorted out yet, although his L has finally made contact with mine, yet he continues to run fast forward “to get out of here”. This sounds so grade school...but I could over hear him today talking with a friend and laughing about “some girl” telling him he should write a book about his current situation. Oh ya...? And what do you plan on putting in that????? I know I should just ignore but I’ve been overcome with sadness and hurt today.
His exercise has ramped up again to insane levels...I can’t help but think I couldn’t get him off the couch before all this and of course he’ll blame my injury for us never doing anything just before BD. I get it ...in his eyes I’m the problem...just [censored] when I start to believe it and put stock in his words. Argh I was doing soooo well....I don’t know what changed...we’ll I do....me.
Sad today. The struggle is real.
Kindly,
Just as I posted on Cardinal's thread, they tend to keep all of the notes, wrapping paper, ribbons, etc. that we give them. They are the ties to the past for him. He may not tell you he's keeping them, but I can guarantee that they will be put in a box and stored away for when he's alone and can bring them out to think of his past.
I honestly don't know where he thinks he's going during this health crisis, but he certainly is doing a lot of packing up. As for joking on the phone, etc., typical teen behavior. Like a teen who is going off into the big world, he's looking to the future, hoping that the stay at home orders will lift soon. Never mind, that once he's out there, the responsibilities will continue, i.e., working, bills to pay, shopping, laundry, cooking, etc. Right now, he's in a fantasy world and thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Once he's gone, that euphoria high will be in full force for about 6 months and then reality will come crashing in.
Yep, your man has become a teen. Replay is starting to ramp up a bit more and he's going to have a difficult time keeping it in check...but that's where you will need to just step back, listen, validate and remember...his actions should speak louder than his words.
I am so sorry you are going through this. I remember those days of having a MLCer living under my roof. It's not easy, but you will need to dig deeper for patience and find a bit of humor... After all, do you honestly think he's going to remember which box he packed his favorite clothes? Pretty soon, he won't have anything to put on if he continues packing.
Take care and stay safe.
Kindly, I hope you are doing some kind things for yourself today. Build yourself up again. You are compassionate, loyal, kind. He is not running from you; as Job says, he is running toward a fantasy life in which all his problems will disappear. I had kind of a down couple of days too, and it's always helpful to read Job's advice. It's incredibly validating. It's easy, at least for me sometimes, to observe H and think he is living this great life... well, he thinks he is. But it makes sense that it seems that way in this fantasy stage. Sometimes I forget this is most likely replay, and of course they're laughing and joking on the phone. They're living that grade school/high school/college life.
You know I can empathize with you there. The phone calls. It's so annoying. My H has some cards of mine in his nightstand too (which is part of the MBR). In some ways our Hs are so similar, and in some so opposite. My H is living his fun life and said months ago he was ready to move on, get on with his life, but he's still here, stuck, it seems, in between. He used to exercise a ton and even bought some equipment to start again during lockdown, but that hasn't really happened. Maybe your H can motivate him.
Trying to find that humor as Job suggests... but I know it s*cks. I think living with these guys makes us more susceptible to drifting back into almost buying their blame and justification. Their upside-down reality blurs with ours. But we have to keep trusting ourselves. This is a message to you, but to myself too.
I only wish we could get together and eat some brownies while our spouses vape!
I am so sorry you are going through this. I remember those days of having a MLCer living under my roof. It's not easy, but you will need to dig deeper for patience and find a bit of humor... After all, do you honestly think he's going to remember which box he packed his favorite clothes? Pretty soon, he won't have anything to put on if he continues packing.
Take care and stay safe.
Lol! And I’ll be the one who gets yelled at! I remember him coming home from work early on in this and accusing me of hiding his eye glasses. He found them a week later in his room.
Thx job - I love hearing from you guys. Your words, explanations and advice are quite calming and valuable. H is 100% displaying teenage behaviour... it’s so clear and bizarre at the same time.
Cardinal - thank you for the reminder to let things play out. It’s so important to not live in future speculations. It does no good. As you pointed out it’s the changes in temperature in the house that are challenging to manage. I have to get better at not noticing his behaviour, or jumping up when he closes the door to take a call.
Update - Two weeks ago his L proposed that we have all disclosure info submitted tomorrow. My L asked for a change in date of S (2 weeks ago) ...once again we’ve heard nothing. Hurry up, hurry up....radio silent yet packing boxes like a mad man. Confusing and sad. Why not just get on with it? It’s not like he’s waivered on what he wants.
Good Morning Kind
I find myself at a loss for things to say when it comes to the total destruction in really 5 short months:
Me and my family dropped, EA, possible PA, Reinventing history, excessive exercise, motorcycle purchase, change in clothes style, excessive money spent, excessive drinking, tattoo, lies, drug use = I KNOW I’M NOT CRAZY. I hate how I have to go over these facts though to remind myself that I’m not exaggerating or imagining things.
You are not crazy!
It is amazing the list of changes in behaviour and activities for MLCers and in such a short time. You are correct, we have to remind ourselves, maybe we exaggerated or imagined it, of course no, it is quite real and staggering to witness.
Who would blow up their life like that. That level of total destruction. A person in crisis. This is something we had no clue even existed before finding ourselves in the deep end of a crazy situation.
I also don’t know if there’s a way I can make him see that making these big changes in the middle of a pandemic and economic downturn is not only irresponsible but unfair. Anything I do or say will come across as holding him back. Am I really stuck here letting this play out ....? Anyone got any strong advice for slowing a runaway train down? It’s not even about him and I and our relationship at this point it’s about living and not adding even more stress to an awfully stressful situation.
Yes, anything you attempt to explain will come across has holding him back. Even if your advice was received well in the moment, later his feelings will change and so will his view point. The very advice he was agreeable to suddenly becomes a fight to him. In his eyes an attempt to control him. And MLCers are out of control.
How do you slow down a runaway train? You get off it.
It’s his train. Stand well back from the tracks and the wall he is barrelling towards. Better if you turn around and focus on something else; you for example. Although I do understand and empathize the pull of watching. It’s your H, and it’s a train wreck.
You cannot slow down the train directly. It’s more your perception of it. Like, does a tree falling in the forest makes no noise if no one is listening. Is the train speeding down the tracks if you’re not watching? Indifference.
Am I really stuck here letting this play out ....?
No. Of course not.
You control your life.
You
choose to be there. To outlast. To allow time to work. To dig for patience. To heal.
This is a marathon.
I’m not too sure what to expect once this starts to become a financial reality for him? I know there’s nothing I can do but let it play out but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little scared. I don’t know who he is when he’s like this.
Please don’t limit and lessen yourself. There is lots you can do. You have made good choices. And you are doing something. Doing nothing is doing something.
You have spoken to a L. You have information. Do keep tabs on the business side of things as the financial reality and pressures start pressing on him.
Teenage H is running. Phone calls, packing, friends, etc. He is going to be all over the map. You will get dizzy trying to keep track of his crazy.
Living under the same roof is hard. Dig for patience.
DnJ
Thx dnj for the reminders...especially that I’ve made good choices, all that I have done and that doing nothing is doing something. This last one can get me revved up a little. I think people like to see and feel progress. Between H and this pandemic it’s an awful feeling of waiting. Not being able to get out and enjoy time with friends and family away from the house is def hard. And then of course having H here as a constant reminder of the MLC situation is not easy either.
I’m allowing my emotions to toy with me again. At BD, H said he’s done with being roommates and propelled us directly into that reality. I feel like my detached, GAL, minimal contact and convo is reinforcing his opinion...yet I understand that this is his journey and he is entitled to feel and think however he wishes. Despite the partial truth to his statement, we had so much more than that. I get frustrated with myself for taking on this burden and blame from the hurtful words he’s spewed and some of the actions he’s taken. Leaving him alone seems so counterproductive but interfering in anyway seems destructive and pointless right now.
On that note, he has a bday coming up soon. I know Cardinal just went through this ~ anybody have advice? What do other DBers do?...acknowledge just with words, ignore because we’ve been fired, Write a card? I feel like it doesn’t matter what I do he will judge it however he wishes. Feels like another d&*#- if you do, d$&# if you don’t situation.
Kind
Just wish him a happy birthday. It’s what I’d do if I knew my neighborhood cashier is having a birthday.
Hi, Kindly. As you know, I relate to so much of what you’re saying here. It’s easy to get frustrated with ourselves, I think, for taking on a disproportionate share of the burden and blame, yet easy to do when we are people who would like to take responsibility and make amends and our spouses are the opposite; they run from any responsibility and continue to project all blame on us. It’s not easy. But it is not your fault. Keep checking yourself when you notice you’re taking on too much. That can feel exhausting, but maybe someday we will just know and believe and not have to remind ourselves.
I think my H is having more guilt to push away any time I show I still care for him, even as a friend, which I have trouble denouncing since we’ve been friends at least for 16+ years. Yet I think the fact that I was even thinking about baking him something for his bday probably felt like pressure. I do feel like I was being true to myself by genuinely wishing him a happy birthday. That’s all I would suggest too.
((Kindly))
Hello Kindly
Yes, H will judge the actions you do for his birthdays he will. His feelings and judging will not remain static. It’s best to do what is in your best interests. Kind and cordial.
Give him a birthday card. A more generic type; not all gushy and affectionate. And wish him a happy birthday. If he responds well to that, tell him you are making ribs for dinner.
Ok, that’s my favourite, well meat really. Steak - yummy. Ribs - yummy. Hotdogs - yummy. Wait, does that last one even count as meat?
Sorry, got side tracked. Point is, you could have something in reserve, like ribs or such, that could be placed into service rather quickly. If he response in a manner worthy of that. It kind of goes along with the reward good behaviour, and do more of what works, ideals.
Expecting nothing doesn’t preclude expecting anything. He just may surprise you - I mean in a nice way. Throwing something “special” together for supper might be appropriate. Make that decision last minute, to stay no pressure.
Of course he’ll be eating hotdogs if he is in one of his moods.
Have a great day.
DnJ
Just wish him a happy birthday. It’s what I’d do if I knew my neighborhood cashier is having a birthday.
HAHA! I almost spit my drink out...thx for the chuckle wooba ... I like it!!
Thx Cardinal the reminders and check ins from my DB friends = invaluable (((heart))). I also completely agree with your assessment of even the intent to do something for his birthday was received as pressure.
Ok, that’s my favourite, well meat really. Steak - yummy. Ribs - yummy. Hotdogs - yummy. Wait, does that last one even count as meat?
Haha!! You can come to the virtual Cardinal / Kindly deck party too dnj!!! I’ll make sure there’s ribs and steak along with our bread and brownies!! Open invite for anyone bring your specialty dish!!
Of course he’ll be eating hotdogs if he is in one of his moods.
Well...I don’t know how I didn’t see this one coming...of course he left. He hasn’t been home for over a week. My debate with myself now is do I bother texting happy birthday and just leave the card for when he gets home? I fully don’t expect him back now for his bday. Totally should have seen this coming. Oh well somewhat of a nice break for me! I’ll take it.
K.
Hi, Kindly! Is his bday still coming up? Personally, if my H had been gone that week, I probably would have texted him Happy Birthday that day and nothing else, and if he was gone on his bday and I had decided to text him, I don’t think I would have given him a card when he returned. But that’s more a reflection of where I’m at and how my H is, so it might be different for you. I hope you are well! I would love to come to this deck party.
Hi Cardinal- I did exactly as you suggested without having read your response first! Glad my instincts were right.
H has still not come home and is displaying angry monster behaviour from afar through text and email. My
L sent a letter to his pointing out his inconsistent behaviour over the last 7 months with regards to settling on a separation date and let’s just say he didn’t react well. It’s been 5 days and I’ve chosen not to respond. He basically confirmed my speculation of his up and down behaviour towards me as him being “nice and amicable” it certainly not confused. I’m a little concerned what the new not nice behaviour will look like.
The most recent threat surrounds our finances again and includes canceling the credit cards. He’s creating a tonne of work for himself as all bills will have to be changed to new cards. Through this, I’ve realized I’ve been over paying for the house bills and will need to ask him again for the cc statements which he locked me out of seeing when all of this started. There is def money I’ve been contributing that is missing...and with the recent lockdown it’s become a significant amount.
The last few days I’ve been really struggling with compassion. Like what the f is he angry about!!??? I know it’s not about me but I’m the one that’s been blind sided, cheated on, treated like dog dirt, accused of awful things, all because he can’t express his feelings? Because he doesn’t know himself? Because he’s a workaholic. So he’d rather roll the dice and start over than talk to me!?
This monstering behaviour with a quick flip to complete normalcy is really weighing me. I know I shouldn’t care about what other people think...but I’m allowing it to sink my self esteem and rational thought when I hear or see him interacting with his family or friends as if everything is 100 % normal. First time since this began that I’m feeling angry and disgusted with his behaviour. I don’t want this....any of it but I definitely don’t want to start with the negative feels!
Thanks for allowing me to update and the vent.
Frustrated K.
Good Morning Kind
It is a struggle - the lies, the projections, the blame, the anger. Add to that the flips to normalcy, the obvious confusion, the shortsightedness, and the short memory and seemly mental processing power of a gnat. The alien MLCer.
Good for you expressing your feelings. Let them out, vent; in a safe place and manner.
Your feelings are valid and true; and not permanent. They will change. This is all steps along the path. Which you’re walking really well I will add.
His behaviour and the facade he shows, yeah some people do go along with it. You know better. Still, it takes a while for one’s self esteem to not be affected. As I said you know; it’s your feelings that are still catching up to that understanding. The compassion, the struggle.
First time since this began that I’m feeling angry and disgusted with his behaviour.
Yep. Your feelings are perfectly normal. His behaviour is disgusting.
Emotional understanding takes time. Let the feelings wash over you.
These are healthy steps along a healing path.
DnJ
Thx so much for saying I’m doing well Dnj. It really means a lot. This week for me feels very out of control.
H has made a surprise return home and has been here for one hour. In this short time H has completely ignored me ...like I literally don’t exist, had a convo with a friend on the phone where he was professing how hard this all is on him and how it’s not going quick enough, and implied that I’m exhibiting nasty behaviour and that he needs to check up on “something to see if I’ve been on”. He is now doing his excessive exercise with tv blaring. After hearing to much and allowing fear to enter and convince me that he’s somehow spying on me I turned on the tv and drowned the rest of the convo out.
I keep rubbing my eyes, but the disbelief just won’t go away. The want is strong to scream “dig deeper....look behind the surface...why have you done/are you doing all of these things...are you listening to yourself??????” I truly feel the hole is too deep for him to dig himself out.
I’m nervous, on edge and saddened with this stranger in my house.
Thx for the vent again, it helps...if even for a little bit.
K.
As usual, I'm right there with you, Kindly. I've been thinking about your other recent post since I read it, in which you said you were feeling angry and disgusted with your H's behavior. And this:
The last few days I’ve been really struggling with compassion. Like what the f is he angry about!!??? I know it’s not about me but I’m the one that’s been blind sided, cheated on, treated like dog dirt, accused of awful things, all because he can’t express his feelings?
And this:
This monstering behaviour with a quick flip to complete normalcy is really weighing me. I know I shouldn’t care about what other people think...but I’m allowing it to sink my self esteem and rational thought when I hear or see him interacting with his family or friends as if everything is 100 % normal.
I could have written the exact same things on the day you wrote them. Since my H's angry outburst a couple of weeks ago, I've both reached a new level of indifference but also disgust, if that makes sense, and the feelings come and go. I no longer have the urge to make small talk with him, because of the things he said to me and the way he said them. Because of the way he continues to treat me, as if the outburst didn't happen.
The word disgust has stuck with me. I hadn't realized that's partly what I've been feeling sometimes too. Disgust that he could not only decide to end the M suddenly and in his actions blame me, but that he could make this process so ugly. It doesn't have to be, because we (you and me and others here) are willing to try to be kind and compassionate even if it's not what we want. Because maybe in some way we're also willing to honor the past relationship/friendship we had with the WAS, to look beyond the way they're acting out now. Like strangers.
And I've been overhearing more of those convos where H is laughing and pretending everything is normal. I also think his attitude is the same as your H's--i.e. I am making this so difficult for him. Which has me wanting to say all of those things you wrote above, along with, "Why are you so angry? What did I do--want to work on the M? Try to own my faults? Apologize wholeheartedly to you?"
All of these questions may be useless to ask them, because we know they don't know, can't now do the work to look within, can't figure out what's going on inside of them; the shorthand is it's just us, we're what's wrong. It makes so much sense that they have to project the things they don't like/can't face about themselves onto us. Of course we are the only ones in their lives being blamed for every problem! But I still think knowing this and feeling this are two different things. Doesn't mean our self-esteem doesn't sometimes take a hit, doesn't mean we can't work on building it right back up. Still, the urge to confront them with all of these questions is there. I hear you.
I'm so sorry your H crashed back in with his irrational thinking. After the break you had, it makes sense that you're feeling on edge and sad. I bet if you ride those feelings, another wave of indifference will come. I was sitting in my room while H talked on the phone to friends, allowing myself for a minute to remember the way things used to be, feeling lonely, and then I saw your post. It made me feel less alone. I hope my reply makes you feel less alone.
I'm re-reading this from DnJ:
His behaviour and the facade he shows, yeah some people do go along with it. You know better. Still, it takes a while for one’s self esteem to not be affected. As I said you know; it’s your feelings that are still catching up to that understanding. The compassion, the struggle.
We'll get there. (((Kindly))) Can you go outside for a bit and get away from H? Take a short walk?
I no longer have the urge to make small talk with him, because of the things he said to me and the way he said them. Because of the way he continues to treat me, as if the outburst didn't happen.
I’m sorry he treated you like this Cardinal...I feel like every flare up is somehow a small test for us. It definitely tests patience, resolve and I think too our own self respect. I’m still navigating how I feel about these things combined and how to behave for me. This current complete silence and ignoring right now is a new awful and strange.
I'm so sorry your H crashed back in with his irrational thinking. After the break you had, it makes sense that you're feeling on edge and sad. I bet if you ride those feelings, another wave of indifference will come. I was sitting in my room while H talked on the phone to friends, allowing myself for a minute to remember the way things used to be, feeling lonely, and then I saw your post. It made me feel less alone. I hope my reply makes you feel less alone.
It 100000% makes me feel less lonely and I’m so happy I was able to do that for you too.
I instantly get a little hug feeling every time I come back on here and see that someone has written on their own page or mine.
And I think your right, it’s finding and riding the wave of indifference, overcoming our own emotional flare ups whether driven by sadness or fear.
I currently don’t like the situation I find myself in. It feels like a game and I’m not one for game playing. He is FULLY ignoring me because of the last correspondence from the L. (Going on to day 3 of this) I know if I talk to him I will get a monster attack of “I can’t talk to you because your lawyer will use it against me”.
Not too sure what to do ....have I given enough detail to ask for advice?
Do I continue to let his silence towards me deafen? Or behave like myself and instigate a good morning or something and risk the attack?
When I really analyze this I don’t really have anything to say, so I think it’s the uncomfortable feeling of zero acknowledgment that we share a space together and of course the feeling of vindicating his opinion of “roommates” again. Do I continue to feel the discomfort and leave him alone to reach out first? Is this part of detaching?
“There is no try” ...Hmmm I’m starting to question Yoda Dnj!!!!
I feel like I’m not “doing”, even tho I can hear you saying sometimes doing nothing is doing something. Lol!!!
K.
Take a page from dog training manuals - ignore the bad behaviors, reward the good ones.
Go about your day AS IF you were happy and content ( even if you aren’t ). Be proactive, don’t be reactive to his moods.
Take a page from dog training manuals - ignore the bad behaviors, reward the good ones.
Go about your day AS IF you were happy and content ( even if you aren’t ). Be proactive, don’t be reactive to his moods.
Haha! This is excellent Kml! I’ve recently fallen into a sink hole and my positive behaviour has gone with it.
I ABSOLUTELY have been
reactive and this is exactly what has me feeling “off”. Thank you so much for adding to my page and reading through my jumbled words to offer your help and help me see a little clearer.
I will flip my script again and get back to being me!!!! Re-reading my last few posts has made me realize I’m spending too much of my time and energy on his behaviour again.
K.
Hi, Kindly—how are you doing? I’m sitting outside and was just thinking about you. The breeze is lovely, but it’s getting hot.
Just wanted to let you know I’m thinking of you and I hope you are well!
Thx for checking in on me Cardinal...I just wrote a catch up post and it disappeared. I’ll try again tomorrow.
I have a lot of catching up to do. I’m doing the best I can At the moment.
Testing to see if this posts.....
Hi, Kindly! I've been thinking about you and wondering where you are in the D process and how it's going, and just how you are doing. It looks like H is ready to start it all again on my end...
Hi Cardinal,
You’ve crossed my mind many times as I now approach my one year mark to BD. I was doing ok, focusing on me and spending lots of time between work and my family...but then something changed over the last month or so and I’ve fallen into a bit of a emotional hole. I’ve gone backward. He has many behaviours that trigger my sadness and “why is this happening” line of questioning in my head which leads to self doubt, hurt and then sometimes disgust (with him and his behaviour)
The L’s have still not exchanged any FD’s yet he has attacked me on numerous occasions still about getting our house sold. The evaluation date isn’t even settled yet as my L suggested a later one.
He accuses my lawyer of stalling. When I talked to mine she said she hasn’t heard from his lawyer in over a month. So the game continues. All of my docs have been completed and officially signed off on. I also understand that he can not legally sell this house without my signature or without getting a court order which my L says will take “a very long time” and would prob be thrown out with the facts that I would present.(Health etc during pandemic and no FD yet) so the big question is why can’t I just live my life with him coming and going?
I don’t know.
It’s hard when it’s constantly in your face.
The unanswered WHY is plaguing me. I’m allowing it to. And that makes me angry at myself.
Why couldn’t we use this time to work on what he thinks is wrong?
Why is he now putting effort into going out and going away with other people? Did I seriously hold him back for those things? Or worse, did he just not want to do them with me? If the later WTF not? Is it really simple enough to say here that people “fall out of love all the time”??
His behaviour and “happy” demeanour and his direct reports of feeling perfectly happy continue to make me question MLC, which spirals me to be,ie I guess that I did this, I caused it ....
Since I’ve been away from dB site, I’ve been yelled at / “told” over the most ridiculous things:
-looking at him as he passed me in the hallway
-opening a “special” bottle of wine
-wanting to get something fixed in the house -“why we won’t be here..who cares leave it”
-Misplacing keys to which he had a spare
His behaviour continues to be baffling:
-gone from work-a-holic to COVID shut down since Feb/March. Stays in basement playing video games or excessively working out Or talking on phone loudly (laughing and living it up)
-spent lots of $on new bike which I can count on two hands how many times he has taken out for a ride
-In the last few weekends has made many efforts to go away “to cottage” I have no way of knowing if that’s where he is actually going and I know I shouldn’t be focused on that anyway but it hurts
- has bought all new designer cloths fit for a teenager (Never gave a crap about a label for all the years I’ve known him)
-continues to spend spend spend
One of my bigger concerns which will need to be addressed At some point, is that he is slowly taking over the entire garage and driveway of our shared house. I’m shocked the neighbours haven’t complained yet. It’s also putting a target on our house because he constantly has something new in the driveway ....today it’s a boat trailer !!!!!!!!
I’m so happy I’ve taken advice from here and split our finances early on. I would have been in big trouble I think.
I think the biggest upset for me is how from the outside looking in it just looks like he’s “finally taking time for himself” because he’s not working. How does he not see that this was 9/10ths of our problem ?
As you can see I’m very scattered again right now. I am very busy at work, and am taking time for myself with friends and family but I just feel empty.
Thanks for any words of encouragement or advice to keep going. I’m really starting to feel like what’s the point...it’s too broken.
Hope you are all well and I will start catching up on your situations...
KindLy needs some hugs. Xo
((((((Kindly))))))
Your mind is out of control. Stop thinking. You can't think your way out of this.
You do not want to use this time to work on anything with him. That man is not your H. When/if your H reenters his body, you can work on things. That could be years from now. THAT MAN IS NOT YOUR H. You can't use your will, your behavior, your words or even your standing to get your man back into the body in front of you.
You will not have any peace until you can disconnect the guy that looks like him from the man you knew.
Your H is locked somewhere far away where you can't see him. The only person who has the key is your H. You don't have the key. You don't have the key. You don't have the key.
The other guy, the one that looks like your H, will do all kinds of crazy stuff. There is no point in talking to him about anything -- your R, his stuff, your $, your driveway, getting something fixed in the house. He'll be mean and nasty. If he's nice for a minute, don't even enjoy it. He'll be mean soon enough. Don't let him disrespect you. Leave the room. Tell him, "I am not ever going to allow you to speak to me like that," and leave the room. Do it every time.
Do you want to fix something in the house? Fix it yourself. If you can't, pay someone to do it. If you can't pay someone to do it, live with it.
Make a space for yourself and make it beautiful and just for you if moving is not possible or isn't what you want. Spend much of your time in that space. Make a garden shed you can enjoy alone, or a room in your house or a closet you convert. See friends, take walks in the woods, try to find whoever you are without H. You may or may not see him again. You can decide then if you want to talk to him.
Do you like to draw? Write? Make pottery? Do that. Create something.
Can you help someone? Write to a person in solitary confinement or an elderly person who is alone? Buy groceries for an elderly neighbor or mow her lawn? Do that. DO things instead of looking at all you can't do or he won't do.
I am telling you all this because I was you. I understand exactly how you are feeling/thinking. Maybe you can avoid some of what I endured.
Let that man who looks like your H go. Write letters to the real H and bury them in a box. Say everything you want to say, how much you miss him or hate him or why he ruined your life or how you want him back. Make a list of all the expectations you had of him and your marriage and title it, "The Expectations I Will Let Go." Hide the letter and look at it in six months. To the alien that looks like your H, say nothing at all. Smile, if you can muster it. But never respond about anything at all serious. He can't hear you.
Kindly, I'm so sorry to hear you're feeling this way. (((Kindly))) I hope coming here will help you shake off the funk you've been in. Gerda always has good advice.
He has many behaviours that trigger my sadness and “why is this happening” line of questioning in my head which leads to self doubt, hurt and then sometimes disgust (with him and his behaviour)
I have spent a lot of time in self doubt lately after a couple of rounds of serious spewing from H, in which he tries to make me feel ashamed, inadequate, crazy... you name it. And you know I've struggled, like you are currently, with H looking happy from the outside. But it's just that--from the outside. Take that energy and put it back on you--pursuing what makes you happy. What brings you peace and contentment, even for a few minutes? Do those things. Do them as often as you can. Let H and his garage and his loud talking become a tiny blip compared to these things that bring you joy.
H tells me all of his new friends can't believe he was married to me, etc. And your H is yelling at you for ridiculous things. Don't believe any of it! Don't take on the feelings he is projecting onto you. Somewhere deep inside, I bet he is feeling unworthy and is trying to make you feel unworthy. You aren't! I know that's easier said than done. Do you have an IC you can talk to about how you're feeling? Are your family and friends able to help you see yourself and your situation more clearly and reflect your own value back to you? Keep surrounding yourself with people who make you feel good about life and about yourself, whether those people are IRL or in books or movies or podcasts or paintings or web forums. I've found headphones help me keep my focus on me and my immediate bubble--I'm taking a cue from H in this regard!
I love all of Gerda's advice and am taking it to heart as well.
Kindly, I wish I could offer you a piece of cheesecake. How's your garden?
Your mind is out of control. Stop thinking. You can't think your way out of this
Your H is locked somewhere far away where you can't see him. The only person who has the key is your H. You don't have the key. You don't have the key. You don't have the key.
To the alien that looks like your H, say nothing at all. Smile, if you can muster it. But never respond about anything at all serious. He can't hear you.
So glad I posted on here again....I was suffering alone for weeks, feeling small, feeling lost, feeling sad, beating myself up. Thanks Gerda ...your words have refreshed me and have also reminded me how often I need to hear the same thing over and over again. This is frustrating to me but it’s where I am at so I have to let that go.
It’s like the mind knows it but the brain still can’t compute it.
Take that energy and put it back on you--pursuing what makes you happy. What brings you peace and contentment, even for a few minutes? Do those things. Do them as often as you can. Let H and his garage and his loud talking become a tiny blip compared to these things that bring you joy.
Yes this! I’ve lost site of this with The mind swirls and being so busy at work...which has its own struggles right now too...I’m terrified of restructuring and just trying not to focus on that...I recently applied for another job but didn’t get past the first stage. Which I’m mostly ok with because I really do love where I am and leaving isn’t my first choice. It’s just another suspenseful situation...I think the mind can only handle so much suspense...lol! I def need to REFOCUS
I had a great day yesterday - baked and made all kinds of yummies from the garden. And put together a really nice basket for a friend. I’m also taking pictures again and getting back to my main hobby and side business. This is proof that focusing on me works way better ...just hard to do sometimes with H stomping around in your face.
The headphones are a GREAT idea ...I love that you took that from H ...I so remember you writing about that!, love it.
Opps forgot Cardinal - the garden is amazing right now....so many tomatoes, zucchini, herbs - but most importantly I’ve taken to making mojitos using the mint from my garden....Yum but yikes...def need to do in moderation they are soooo good.
Thank you both for helping with my re-entry to focusing on me! (Hugs)Xo
Half journaling / half I don’t know ~~~~~
I wrote this on Cardinal’s site but wanted record of it here on mine:
My hiatus was due to work and life taking over but also truthfully because my mind has been stuck in a swirling vortex. I’ve been facing, questioning and reliving so many things. I have been stuck on the following:
-reconciling with the *emotionally painful truthful elements of what he spews and taking TOO MUCH responsibility for it ending our M because of him blaming me and me feeling horrible I didn’t fix things. (ssm)
-obsessing over where the man I married went
-trying to stop speculating as to why his family and a couple friends specifically have fallen away since March; what is he telling them?
-why he is SO focused on selling the house when FA/ separation has not been presented yet
-looking ahead without all of the info. This is a big one that spirals me every time. I keep assuming I will not be able to stay in my house $$ ....I don’t know this yet. I think I’ve attached weird feelings of failure to having to leave...when truthfully this house is to big for just me anyway. It’s just that we just finished redoing many things to our liking and it’s my home. I’m super conflicted over this one.
And to sum it all up, the big one is how much longer can I live with him if I don’t get back to letting go and dropping the rope fully. Everything affects me so much again.
Things I’m doing to not help myself:
-overhearing, h phone conversation...he might as well be talking through a mega phone he’s so loud ...but I need to start walking away and not *wanting* / caring what he says or is talking about or to whom.....haven’t been able to fully do this yet...part of me feels like knowledge is power, part of me just wants to keep tabs - yet the Dbing part of me screams walk away focus on YOU. I just need to execute that better. Perhaps cardinals headphones are good idea here.
-went down to “his” room to honesty get something the other day and when I opened the door I was greeted with a video camera he’s installed!!!!!! Is he allowed to do that???? I panicked and left but then was smart enough to go back in and get what I came for so it didn’t look suspicious. Really? He’s allowed to roam the house freely but “his” bedroom is off limits to me??? Wow. Ok.
-convincing myself that he just didn’t want to spend time with me. Now that he hasn’t been able to (obsessively) work due to covid he’s been ramping up his outings (away the last few weekends, big trips he packs tonnes of stuff for and has bought all new gear for) things that he knows I love doing and that in the past I feel like he has been “along for the ride during”...how does one not take this personally?
-becoming closer with family when all along I would champion for him to take time off to visit more etc....one day he spewed that I always complain when we get together with his family and that I didn’t like cleaning and cooking - what the????????!!!!!! I went out of my way to plan and make nice meals and enjoyed doing it. MLC talk I guess?
If only we could turn the brain off for a rest like we do a light. Dnj (And others) I can already hear your wise words here of refocus on me. Feel like I’ve taken soooo many steps backwards. BD anniversary is coming up and all the crazy stuff that happened prior to me figuring out what was going on is plaguing me a little right now too.
Hope you’re all well and continue to stay safe and keep loved ones safe. Xo
Kindly
This was my mantra: “Let Go or Be Dragged”
I like that kml...to the point and accurate
Thank you !
-reconciling with the *emotionally painful truthful elements of what he spews and taking TOO MUCH responsibility for it ending our M because of him blaming me and me feeling horrible I didn’t fix things. (ssm)
Ditto, ditto, but you already know where I'm at with that! It's like if there's a grain of truth in the spewing, that means it's all true... which is not accurate, is it? But it can feel that way. It seems to me that we fall into this as they are going overboard in the opposite direction and taking no responsibility at all. They aren't in a place where they can confront any pain other than their own (which isn't actually all due to us, either, though they must tell themselves it is). We are able to see beyond ourselves and be empathetic, though; we are confronting the pain we may have caused our spouses and ourselves, and we want to make amends, but we shouldn't be taking responsibility for all of it. I know that and you know that, but I suppose it's a work-in-progress to really own that and not have to remind ourselves to put down the blame.
And to sum it all up, the big one is how much longer can I live with him if I don’t get back to letting go and dropping the rope fully. Everything affects me so much again.
I am having some trouble with this too. The last spewing from H pushed me to fully accept his alien-ness and recognize that as detached as I have become from him, it's still not a healthy environment to be living in, is it? If I didn't have all these beloved pets that go with the house, and if I could afford another place, I think I would seriously be considering it. But you can get back to a more detached place. I think sometimes it happens in starts and stops. And with BD anniversary approaching, it would make sense that emotions are stirred up. You'll get through this! Hopefully posting here will give you support as you move the focus back toward you.
The headphones have helped me. Now I get why my H had them on for like six months. Ha. It seems like maybe overhearing his calls is doing more harm than knowledge-is-power good for you right now.
A video camera? Eye roll. I've wondered many times if my H has something set up somewhere. After his freak out over the financial info I asked for, he eventually left for his room as I was asking him for a date on which I could expect some of these documents, so I followed him and stepped one foot in his room before he yelled, "Don't come in my room!" Just a couple of weeks before that, he'd asked me to help him with something in his room. Seems like more teenage behavior in retrospect.
The takeaway, I guess, is that all of these behaviors you're listing are all about him, and not you, even though it may feel personal. We have to remember that!
I had a great day yesterday - baked and made all kinds of yummies from the garden. And put together a really nice basket for a friend. I’m also taking pictures again and getting back to my main hobby and side business. This is proof that focusing on me works way better ...just hard to do sometimes with H stomping around in your face.
This is a kind of turning your brain off, giving it a rest, right? Keep doing these activities that bring you joy and shift your focus from your H's craziness. Maybe even do them with headphones on.
The takeaway, I guess, is that all of these behaviors you're listing are all about him, and not you, even though it may feel personal. We have to remember that!
This is very good for me to read and re-read. I remember typing early on that the silence in the house is deafening. I didn’t think it would get even worse. It’s now at a point where there is zero interaction. Not even a hello or good morning. I think being full on ignored is a tough one for me to not take personally...even though deep down I think I do know it’s not about me.
What do other people do? Just give him the space and ignore back ...I can’t even bring myself to,say good morning or start convo anymore to get no reply or a grumpy grunt of some sort. Ignoring him seems so rude but I didn’t do this.
It’s so extreme now I swear he sits in the basement and waits for me to come upstairs to enter any common areas. In one way I guess it’s good because it limits the chance of getting spewed at but it just makes me shake my head.
I started this journey with so much love, compassion and Patience (hence my title) but I’m lost. I can still find love for who he was but certainly not this version of him. I feel like my compassion and patience is wearing thin. Everyday as home time approaches the pit of doom returns to my stomach for what I might face next.
I’m nervous and shocked that the neighbours haven’t asked anything yet. We live In a quiet Well kept area. It is impossible that they haven’t noticed all of the crazy stuff going on, the constant different vehicles, extra vehicles on the road, trailers, etc. I know I should just focus on me but I’m struggling with all the constant changes when I pull onto my street and enter the house. Wondering “who, what, why” is not GAL behaviour but I’m also staying busy between a crazy work schedule right now and my hobbies, I Just find my mind constantly comes back to analyzing the situation right now.
Hello Kindly
I’m sorry things have started to swirl around again for you. And yes, you accurately predicted my encouragement of re-focus upon yourself.
Those backwards steps you feel you’ve taken, consider them actually forward progression. You need to go through something again. Perfectly normal, and a good and healthy path. And BD anniversary is bound to stir up a few things. (((Kindly)))
H installing a video camera in his room. Yep, that’s one confused dude there. So teenager-like.
It’s now at a point where there is zero interaction. Not even a hello or good morning. I think being full on ignored is a tough one for me to not take personally...even though deep down I think I do know it’s not about me.
What do other people do? Just give him the space and ignore back ...I can’t even bring myself to,say good morning or start convo anymore to get no reply or a grumpy grunt of some sort. Ignoring him seems so rude
His ignoring you is not about you. It’s him.
What to do? Give him space and time. Lots of both. That’s different than ignoring.
Watch your expectations. Keep them at zero, for both expecting him not to say anything and to say something. You are starting to build resentment towards the expected behaviour.
Say good morning, and if he ignores or grunts, go about your day. If he says something nice, respond, and go about your day. Don’t let his behaviour dictate how, and who, you are going to be.
I started this journey with so much love, compassion and Patience (hence my title) but I’m lost. I can still find love for who he was but certainly not this version of him. I feel like my compassion and patience is wearing thin. Everyday as home time approaches the pit of doom returns to my stomach for what I might face next.
I like your thread title - finding patience and facing fear.
I understand your compassion and patience is starting to wear thin. Expectations are not helping either. You are expecting, worrying, and fearing, the next thing you might face.
Indifference. Compassionate indifference. This is the time you need to find indifference; to let go or be dragged.
Don’t worry you can be both compassionate and indifferent. Indifference bolsters patience, lessens fear, and helps re-focus yourself.
I do empathize with you being lost. It’s the love disappearing, the love you started this journey with. It’s ok. It’s just being put away for safe keeping, for later. It’s indifference taking hold. Have faith, it will feel wrong and weird at first.
Indifference allows you to grow and find your beliefs and yourself. It protects you from H’s behaviour. Without indifference H’s actions and words will eat away at your love like an acid. Resentment will continue to build. Compassion will wither.
It is good you can still find your love for old H. Love for new H is quite a different matter. In time that does alter.
We all need a certain level of understanding to let go. So no worries with all the analyzing, we all did it too.
Focus on you, and keep moving forward.
D
Watch your expectations. Keep them at zero, for both expecting him not to say anything and to say something. You are starting to build resentment towards the expected behaviour.
I understand your compassion and patience is starting to wear thin. Expectations are not helping either. You are expecting, worrying, and fearing, the next thing you might face.
I do empathize with you being lost. It’s the love disappearing, the love you started this journey with. It’s ok. It’s just being put away for safe keeping, for later. It’s indifference taking hold. Have faith, it will feel wrong and weird at first.
As always so nice to hear from you Dnj.
You are bang on ... the key to freeing my mind is in the “expecting”. Expecting him to realize what he’s doing, how much hurt he’s causing, moving his plan along and on and on.... which then causes worry and fear.
I have great moments like today where I see it sooo clearly and understand my path but then as quickly as I feel it for a day or so, it dissolves. Usually triggered by some strange behaviour in my face or another new toy outside, by him leaving and going somewhere or just by something out of the “ordinary” (whatever that is right now! Ha!)
I work hard and long hours right now, I read, I have my garden, a side business/hobby, amazing family and friends I feel like I am GAL ...yet in the quiet moments the mind always comes back to the unanswered “why” which then turns into expectations of him saying good morning or at least saying something. Why has he gone SO quiet? Is this one of the stages of MLC?
My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.
I think you’re right Dnj it does feel like the love is leaving and I never thought that would happen. I also never thought the man I married could (unintentionally) hurt me like this. It does feel wrong and weird and makes me think
/ feel like the door is firmly being shut and it’s time for me to physically move on. If the love feeling is gone what am I doing letting this play out so slowly, going through my mental ups and downs...just to wait for him to eventually (potentially) years from now pull the plug and move on with someone else? Isn’t it healthier to have him do all this away from me?
I don’t want to “help” him with this but it’s getting harder and harder to ignore the trusted people around me who consistently call out this abusive behaviour I’m enduring.
I don’t want to leave or progress things along for him but if I can’t find this place of total indifference what chance do I stand of not being dragged and lost.....?
When I look back I can see how far I’ve come ...perhaps just more time is needed? And maybe I’m right where I need to be?
Kindly,
What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??
When do I get the chance to tell people that he’s bonkers right now?
Just venting ....but seriously stuff like this sets me back. What am I supposed to say? “I’m fine” “doing the best I know how” I have NO idea what he’s told anyone ....
My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.
Kindly, I'm not glad you're still going through all this and having to live with H, but I am glad you're back on the board so I can at least know there is someone else out there going through all this right now! I am still bothered by this same thing at times, mainly in regard to his mom. I don't waste time wondering what the heck she is thinking about me as much as I used to, though. But, what I tell myself when I get too caught up in analyzing his behavior is that he is not a healthy person right now, period. I may assume MLC and then have times where I feel what he's saying is somehow true, that I triggered all of this behavior in him, but, you know what? Well, first, when I am able to be more objective, I think I would have to be pretty powerful to do that, but also, it doesn't matter what's at the root of it. What matters is that he is not able to be in a healthy relationship (or be healthy and alone), and he is definitely not able to be in a healthy R with me.
What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??
What I would say if they were a really good friend to me might be slightly different, but I would think it would be better to be short and sweet: "Thanks for the note--I'm doing fine."
When do I get the chance to tell people that he’s bonkers right now?
Would I be tempted to say, "Thanks, I'm doing fine, considering H seems to have lost his mind!" Yes, yes, I would be. But I think it just feeds into the cycle of doubting our own perceptions and wanting to convince other people in our lives that
something is going on with H. And to do that, we would have to share way too much and would still have the same doubt in the end. Did I convince my friend? Does he think I'm crazy because H seems normal around him? Etc. So I think it's better for us to get our validation from people here who really do know what we're going through.
You don't have to say "i'm doing fine" unless it's someone you don't want in your business. If it's a good friend who could lend you support I would say "I'm doing as best I can under the circumstances. " That leaves the door open for more if they want to offer. "I'm fine" shuts them out.
I may assume MLC and then have times where I feel what he's saying is somehow true, that I triggered all of this behavior in him, but, you know what? Well, first, when I am able to be more objective, I think I would have to be pretty powerful to do that, but also, it doesn't matter what's at the root of it. What matters is that he is not able to be in a healthy relationship (or be healthy and alone), and he is definitely not able to be in a healthy R with me.
I’m not glad you are suffering through this either Cardinal, but so thankful for your support and caring. This is a good way to look at that ....seriously if only we had known we had this kind of influence / power!!! I kid! But seriously, your words are true ...it doesn’t really matter the what the why or the how...our course of behaviour is no different...and we definitely miss the man they “were” ....not this one.
But I think it just feeds into the cycle of doubting our own perceptions and wanting to convince other people in our lives that something is going on with H. And to do that, we would have to share way too much and would still have the same doubt in the end. Did I convince my friend? Does he think I'm crazy because H seems normal around him? Etc. So I think it's better for us to get our validation from people here who really do know what we're going through.
This really helped me respond. I find I still really want that validation from my outer circle. I tell my self not to care but I have trouble shaking this. I’ve always cared to much about what others think ...perhaps something I can work on for me. I’ve convinced myself somewhere along the way that people fully believe what he’s spinning and I don’t have a voice on the matter without divulging waaaaayyyy too much of what’s transpired. I need a “who cares 2x4!!!”
Has H given you a bit of a break Cardinal? Hope you’ve been able to gather more information for yourself too.
(((Hugs)))
Kindly,
You don't have to say "i'm doing fine" unless it's someone you don't want in your business. If it's a good friend who could lend you support I would say "I'm doing as best I can under the circumstances. " That leaves the door open for more if they want to offer. "I'm fine" shuts them out.
Thx kml! Sometimes the mind is too boogled even for the simplest of answers. I wanted to go more on the “you have no idea how messed up he is path” but held myself back. I liked “doing the best I can under the circumstances”...leaving the door open if he wanted to ask more....I really wanted to ask “what did H tell you” but I also didn’t want to turn it into an online written laundry airing session...in the future if he reaches out I’ll see where that goes.
Thx for your support!
Kindly
Hello Kind
What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??
How about - “You know, surprisingly, really good.”
That statement - it’s true. Even though at times it doesn’t feel like it. It also reinforces your voice and not H’s. And this person is a friend, a mutual friend, so they speak to H as well. If this person is a conduit that gets back to H, and he hears how good you are doing, that is pretty good IMO.
My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.
Don’t worry you got the situation correct.
H is in MLC. He will expend incredible energies to maintain his fantasy. Far, far, more than you can trying to battle his view. He needs to, he is driven to.
What they say to other people, yeah that’s a trigger. A nasty one. MLCers spin so many lies and half truths. And they do it rather convincingly; since they need to convince themselves as well. However, their MLC behaviour is not turned off and on. That is MLC behaviour.
You’re getting mind-boggled by thinking he is sensible enough and turns it on/off. Nope. It’s just part of the irrational behaviour.
MLCers wear emotional masks. When they are out, on goes the mask. It take enormous energy to hide their depression, guilt, shame, etc, all the while projection how wonderful their new life is and how much they have it all together. When they get home, off comes the mask. They are exhausted from acting like everything is great. And, they know that you know. Not much point acting all nice around you. As you said sole enemy.
If and when they do behave nicely, your radar better go off, they are usually up to something.
If the love feeling is gone what am I doing letting this play out so slowly, going through my mental ups and downs...just to wait for him to eventually (potentially) years from now pull the plug and move on with someone else? Isn’t it healthier to have him do all this away from me?
You loving feelings aren’t gone. They are just put away for a while. Honest.
You are letting fear push your imagination into a future that may or may not happen.
Having him around does reinforce things a bit. However, it’s you that’s keeping your feelings going. And whether he is here or away, you need to find your way through it.
Yes, it is healthier if he does all this away from you - emotionally away from you. That is within your control, regardless of where H is physically.
I don’t want to “help” him with this but it’s getting harder and harder to ignore the trusted people around me who consistently call out this abusive behaviour I’m enduring.
Is it abusive behaviour or disrespectful behaviour?
Put a boundary on the disrespect. You don’t need that wearing you down.
The people around us do care and want us to be better, quickly. Sometimes their best intentions are not the best advice. We can get caught up in other people’s views of our situation.
I don’t want to leave or progress things along for him but if I can’t find this place of total indifference what chance do I stand of not being dragged and lost.....?
Look above. You don’t want to leave or push. Good. Then don’t.
You need not ignore your trusted friends, just realize and accept that they aren’t walking in, nor have walked in, your shoes.
I am where I am, and didn’t follow a lot of well meaning advice of some very close friends and family. I actually told my best friends and parents that I want to stand and it will seem so wrong to them. And probably in time to me as well. I asked them as really good friends to please put aside their view of what they think I need to do, and do what I asked them to do - to encourage me when I lose my path. To remind me of why I am doing what I am. For there will be a time when I will need their strength.
I am fortunate to have good caring people who did just that. And they now “see”, as well. Our standing has a far greater affect than upon just us. A beacon’s light shines pretty far. Just think how many see your’s.
I encourage you to follow your path. The one you wanted to, and still want to, follow.
Indifference will happen. Without doubt. You are already within striking distance, be patient.
You are not lost. In truth, you are about to be found.
Have faith my friend.
D
Hi dnj! How are you? I get so excited when I see your posts because you make me think deeper.
What do you say when a mutual friend reaches out (Who works with H) and says “talked to H ...hope you’re doing ok”??
How about - “You know, surprisingly, really good.”
The mind does funny things....I remember during the first few confusing, awful weeks leading up to and just after BD feeling like he wouldn’t leave if I wasn’t doing well, if I needed help.
I think back then I truly felt like if I was broken, a victim, lost, he wouldn’t go. This is SOOOO not me.
fear and confusion left me in a flight or fight state of not knowing what to do and mixed up rationalizations. I think in the back of my head I still think if he thinks I’m fine it’s almost “letting him off the hook”, that his behaviour is completely fine....twisted I know.
I know I’ve come a long way because now I don’t care nearly as much, the rope has been dropped...it’s still within sight and moments where it’s hanging within reach, but it’s not firmly in my hand anymore.
My other trigger is “what has he said to other people” brought on by his 100% normal and happy demeanour around his friends and family. I can’t shake this. I tell myself who cares, live your life...but it’s mind boggling that I’m treated like the sole enemy and he has enough sense still to turn MLC behaviour on and off?? Doesn’t seem legit...makes me think I’ve got this situation all wrong.
Don’t worry you got the situation correct.
H is in MLC. He will expend incredible energies to maintain his fantasy. Far, far, more than you can trying to battle his view. He needs to, he is driven to.
Rinse. Repeat. Rinse. Repeat .... I can’t hear this enough. This board is the only place I get validation from people who “know and get it”. This applies to the MLC mask you speak of as well. Thank you.
And why do they act nice when they are up to something? Guilt?
Is it abusive behaviour or disrespectful behaviour? .
It’s definitely disrespectful but I’d say at times it borders on psychologically mental/emotional abuse. The gaslighting, the Jekyll and Hyde spew fits, the loud conversations he wants me to hear and then the door shutting for his “secret” convos....I could go on.
By me dropping the rope I realize I control what affects me.
I think I find difficulty with sharing the space in that I used to come home from work and see his car in the driveway and be sooo happy he was home to now a pit of dread that has replaced that old happy feeling.
I encourage you to follow your path. The one you wanted to, and still want to, follow.
Indifference will happen. Without doubt. You are already within striking distance, be patient.
You are not lost. In truth, you are about to be found.
Have faith my friend.
D
Your support, understanding and calm resolve/advice giving keeps me strong(er). Thx so much dnj.
K.
Hello Kind
Thank you for inquiring to my wellbeing. Overall I am doing fantastic. Loving life.
I am currently experiencing some manner of illness, I’ve been basically out of commission for a few days. My myriad of strange symptoms do run rather close to Covid. I am awaiting test results, should be within the next week. As such I am currently isolating at home. Lots of time, and not the energy to make use of it. Lol.
fear and confusion left me in a flight or fight state of not knowing what to do and mixed up rationalizations. I think in the back of my head I still think if he thinks I’m fine it’s almost “letting him off the hook”, that his behaviour is completely fine....twisted I know.
Oh, the mixed up rationalizations. I do know how twisted they do get.
I responded to IronWill on my thread regarding excusing vs forgiving.
Separate the person from the behaviour.
Excusing is disingenuous; it is “letting him off the hook”. Giving behaviour a pass, letting it be completely fine.
Forgiveness is for the person.
There is a difference. Finding it, is part of that twisted path we walk.
I do realize your point is more about dropping rope. And in my opinion, we get tangled up trying to excuse behaviour while dropping the rope.
Rinse. Repeat. Rinse. Repeat .... I can’t hear this enough. This board is the only place I get validation from people who “know and get it”. This applies to the MLC mask you speak of as well. Thank you.
You are very welcome.
And why do they act nice when they are up to something? Guilt?
I like that you use the word act, instead of behave.
Act or behave speaks to their authenticity and sincerity; the reason behind the action. Behaving - it’s who they are. Acting - they are after something.
For a person lost within MLC, act is the correct word.
For sure guilt plays a role. That emotion eats away at them. It’s like you said, they are up to something.
These people are immature emotionally. Remember when you were child and wanted to do something that you knew you parents would not really be too happy about. You probably, like I did, tried to butter them up first before asking. Acted all nice (and so crafty, I recall my young self cleverly thinking lol).
Of course parents see right through that BS. Hahaha. Even as I tired this, in the back of my mind I knew it wasn’t going to work. I was just trying to lessen the consequences. This is especially used when kids fess up to stuff.
MLCers are self involved and emotionally young. When H acts nice, he is buttering you up, trying to defect your attention away something his is doing. Most times, it’s rather a pathetic attempt at hiding something. These grown adults, now reverted to younger selves, are still thrust into the grown up world. Their crafty and clever schemes are as easily seen as my childhood one’s were.
I suppose a caveat is in order as well. There are times when the MLCer does pull it together and truly does craft a cunning plan. I think their deviousness becomes honed the further along they are. At first they are more amicable, in love, the world is my oyster, no one else knows true love, we are soulmates, this is what is meant for me, blah, blah, blah. You know the spiel they push.
As time and fate erode that foundation of sand they built upon, they do grow up a bit. Best to be prepared.
I think I find difficulty with sharing the space in that I used to come home from work and see his car in the driveway and be sooo happy he was home to now a pit of dread that has replaced that old happy feeling.
I think, from your current post on cardinal’s thread, you realize this takes as long as it takes.
You do control you. That pit of dread - are you reinforcing it? Feelings will flit when not reinforced.
You are doing very good my friend.
D
Thx as always Dnj,
What a wild few days. Major change in behaviour which I watched slowly creep in....the full out ignoring, to camera installed in his room, to all doors in his area being shut at all times as soon as he leaves the house ...but by far was a verbal outburst which has now left me with feeling scared for the first time since this started.
I have been super careful throughout this pandemic despite being back to work and have kept my circle very small. I finally after a solid 6 months decided to have a small group of 4 people over outside in the backyard ...2 came in twice to use [/b]my [b]bathroom which was fully wiped down before and after (didn’t go near any of “his” area).
Well, the next morning when he saw me he is [/b]flew [b]at me from across a table in a full rage about how me having people over and in the house is BS ... threatening that the house will be listed next month..among many other things. I tried to calm him down and reason but very quickly realized (and have read on here) that there is no point. So finally I just said “do what you have to do” and walked away.
Such stranger behaviour..but I guess not for MLC H. I’m Scared of how his behaviour escalated and scared about what might trigger him to become this vocally violent again.
If I look past what he said, I can assume that he was furious that I was GAL (until the wee hours of the morning) and that it had nothing to do with the people being over. Maybe?
On top of that I found out he spoke with the neighbours and gave a very inaccurate true to MLC reason as to why we are separating including that he[/i] wants to travel and do more!!!!! WHAT!!!?? [i][u][/u] I’m dumbfounded...only kinda Tho ‘cause of my education from this site.
Since then the excessive exercise has ramped up to a ridiculous level again, and I feel like he’s crawled back into a deeper whole then where he started.
Did I handle this ok?
Should I let this stop me from safety having people over again?
For my own curiosity is anyone an expert of MLC stages? What stage does this behaviour seem like?
Why is the behaviour so backwards? (back to a month after BD)
Could his return to work and the potential to see ow (from 1year ago April) be a trigger of some sort?
Sorry lots of curiosity questions....but still focusing on me.
Thx, K
Hello Kind
Thank you for inquiring to my wellbeing. Overall I am doing fantastic. Loving life.
I am currently experiencing some manner of illness, I’ve been basically out of commission for a few days. My myriad of strange symptoms do run rather close to Covid. I am awaiting test results, should be within the next week. As such I am currently isolating at home. Lots of time, and not the energy to make use of it. Lol.
Oh nooo! This is upsetting to hear. Quiet activities for you ...rest! Thinking of you and sending out the energy for a negative test.
(((Dnj)))