Previous thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2843309&page=1My ex and I used to watch reality tv sometimes after dinner. There was one episode where a woman was reflecting on her divorce and she said, the only thing worse than being married to a narcissist, is getting divorced to a narcissist.
I vividly remember feeling like I knew exactly what she meant. I knew that if ex and I ever got divorced, it would be hel! At the time, it wasnt an option.
Thank you to those who have contributed on my thread the last couple of days. Im in a weird spot and it helps knowing Im not alone.
Pax,
We are here for you. Your journey hasn't been an easy one and I can so relate to many of the things that have transpired throughout your journey. My journey wasn't a piece of cake either, just know, I'm in your corner and will be here throughout the last leg of your journey in MLC land.
Take the time to work things out in your heart and mind. If you are a weird spot, just sit quietly and the answers will come.
Take care of yourself.
Ahhh Christmas Eve eve
Its the first time in 5 years that Im genuinely not sad this season. In fact, im feeling pretty good and have a lot to be grateful for. Aside from that rediculous attempt at settling, this holiday season has been pretty magical. Ive been fortunate to spend quality time with my family making traditional foods, Ive hung out with friends and watched Christmas movies and walked around with the pup to look at Christmas lights. Im baking cookies tomorrow with my mom and sister..... things are nice. Im happy and glad to be an active participant in the festivities. It was too painful not th past. This process takes time and patience... I think its the best remedy in landing on our feet.
Wait! I take it back- I am sad that I wont have my dog on Christmas since its lands on exs day. Ex doesnt celebrate Christmas and while I want my dog... I know that even trying to do a date change wouldnt fly with ex.
Thats ok, my dog had an awesome weekend leading up to Christmas and he was spoiled by everyone since they knew he wouldnt be with us on Christmas. Yeahhh in my family.... the dogs are part of the family 100%.
One last dog story... I had mentioned before that I think ex is watching out the small glass window on the front door. I got more evidence this morning... I dropped the dog at the house this am. When ex opened the front door to let the dog in, the dog took a pause before walking in and ex nearly shut the door on him. I saw it happening so I was like ahh dog! And then ex had to reopen the door to actually let the dog in. Whatever he was looking at, he certainly wasnt paying attention to the dog.
Enough pup stories for now.
Its a very festive week... I hope everyone enjoys the celebrations.
Hey Pax, you don't need to look for reasons to feel sad. Just enjoy the happy!!!!! Find the magic, stay there.
Merry Christmas to all here in DB land.
I opted to stay home alone tonight for a solo Christmas Eve. It was surprisingly very nice and I enjoyed the quiet time. I actually worked for a few hours this morning and then joined my mom and sister in the afternoon where we made 5 different batches of Christmas cookies and 2 cakes. Im looking forward to having Christmas cookies with coffee tomorrow which is one of my most favorite things.
I came home in the late afternoon and decided to make myself a nice dinner of seared scallops with steamed veggies and a glass of champagne. Again... no sadness.... it was actually quite the opposite. Progress! The lack of sadness/ depression catches me off guard sometimes.
I guess when you are in the thick of the mess, it feels like you are going to stay stuck in that emotional state forever. We know its not true, but its almost impossible to imagine feeling any other way. Thank goodness for time.... it all gets better in time.
However you choose to celebrate this holiday season, I wish you an abundance of joy and peace... today and every day.
Merry Christmas Pax
Cookie and cake. (Yum) And looking forward to them.
Yeah, it only feels like youre going to be stuck forever. Glad your over that hump.
DnJ
Hello and happy new year!
Its been a busy few weeks and I havent spent much time reading here at all. Another sign of progress. Time to catch up.
I have nothing to report on my end. Im popping in because I cant sleep. I think Im an innate night owl so when my schedule gets disrupted by staying up later than usual one single time, I automatically go back to that sweet spot of not being able to fall asleep past midnight or later. I blame New Years Eve for this one! My sleep hasnt been the same since. Ahh well.
With a new year brings so much hope and potential. Im pleased for a slight break in work, which allows me to strategize better for the year. I have one of those jobs where it feels impossible to take a time out and recalibrate mid year once the ball gets rolling. This year Im being really mindful in my scheduling approach so I dont burn myself out. Well see how long that lasts.
Whoops... Accidentally submitted too soon. Thats what happens when youre posting horizontally! I edited it, but took too long so the changes didnt stick. Its ok... the musings werent important.
Hope you all have a lovely rest of the week.
Sigh....
Just got word that ex fired his old attorney and now has a new one. This is lawyer #3. Maybe you could count it as #4 since he represented himself first.
Here we go again. Actually I was surprised his old lawyer lasted this long... I thought ex was gonna fire him after ex was sanctioned the first time.
Meh.
I am not surprised as some of them go through several, if not more lawyers, because they either do not like what the lawyers tell them or the lawyers finally get fed up and tell them to find someone else to represent them.
It will be interesting to see how long he has this one.
So not surprising. Getting too close to the end and he didn't like that the lawyer wouldn't do something unethical or whatever in prep for trial, most likely.
Not your circus, not your monkeys. Maybe the next one will be better or the judge will be fed up.
Thanks Job and own-
Not my circus, is correct! I couldnt care less. I just dont want this switch-up to delay any more.
So this is kind of interesting- I noticed that the last 2 dog changes, exs lawyer friend was at the house. This is the guy who helps ex scheme. Hes not a family law attorney. Before my ex even dropped the bomb on me, he told me was talking to this guy who did say to him that... its a community property state ... pax would get half of everything. (((Hahahaha. I can laugh now... i had no idea divorce was even on the table back then and that my husband was talking about it to others. Hahahahaha stupid girl!)
This lawyer is either on his 3rd or 4th marrriage so hes a great role model and has been in lock step with ex this whole time. He also hid some of exs money for him....
Anyway, whenever the lawyer friend was at the house I knew that something was going to come my way... some curve ball would soon follow, and it always did. I would start to get anxiety just waiting for the next piece to reveal itself.
But this time, I felt nothing. Nada.... I had no interest in even contemplating what it might be. I guess thats just how done I am with all of this.
So with the news of the new attorney, I now know what their meeting was likely about.
Its interesting because I was reflecting on the fact that I felt nothing about it and I can imagine my whole sitch as a series of gears (like watch gears) where one of the large gears clicks forward so slowly,
But then the other smaller ones move next at much quicker paces. I feel like my life is in ticking order now and I just needed that large gear tou keep moving forward.. haha the visual is better in my head.
Anyway.... we shall just wait and see whats next. Lets get this thing over with!!
Hello,
So admittedly, ex threw a bit of a legal curveball last week that had me worried. I ended up talking with my lawyer about it and I was surprised how emotional I was talking through some of the items. My divorce trial is sooooo far away still, and I cant let the next 9 months go by with me having anxiety over it. But the truth is, Im scared. Im scared for the outcome. My lawyer has had to remind me several times that the burden of proof is going to be on ex. Because he claims x,y,z, doesnt mean its true. And if he wants it to be true, he needs to prove it and its going to take a lot of work on his end to prove it.
And see, in my mind, Im like- oh my gosh how do I prove this isnt true??? And I dont necessarily have that info except I can say, thats not true at all. Its really tough.
So, here I am at work just trying to center myself. Im a little emotional today. Lots going on. Theres a lot of stressors right now. I need to make myself and my wellbeing a priority in order to keep moving forward.
Pax, don't forget too that I'm sure your lawyer sent discovery and he has an obligation to respond in advance and provide the materials he intends to rely on. That should give you some time to confirm the authenticity, since we know your ex-H is not above fabrication.
It's going to be ok. Try not to borrow trouble. Did you see DnJ's advice about not making up his mind about what he will find at a call until he gets there? It wasn't too far back and it was such a great antidote to those of us who have become hyper-vigilant from the trauma we have suffered.
Thanks Own. I hear ya, Im definitely not trying to borrow trouble. I think Im on edge and like any little thing is triggering me. With this latest curveball, we need to issue new discovery and I know ex wont be happy. Not my problem.
I usually pop in here when I need to process my thoughts and feelings and today is one of those days.
Its been a sad week. There was a suicide at work which was shocking and I just found out my friends husband passed away and i am gutted for her. These are not my problems but Im just sad for those involved. Grief is such a tough thing to process and I feel for those who must embark on that journey. Its a long, hard road.
I feel for my friend especially. The world is just a sad place right now. Her hubby was one of the good ones. A big burly mans-man, but oh my gosh did he love his wife and family. He was ill, but this was completely unexpected.
Its just strange because I was thinking of my friend this morning on the way to work. I was going to text her and check on her and see how her hubby was recovering.
She was the one who wanted me to keep standing for my marriage. She and her hubs were married a long time, had their share of problems and challenges, but they made a commitment to keep going. She kept telling me it was the best decision she ever made. And, I think, because they persevered, they had a stronger relationship. I mean, they are #relationshipgoals. So much love and respect for each other and the life they have built and it was so genuine. His passing is a huge loss for them, and so many others actually.
Also, today is my engagement anniversary. I didnt actually remember- Facebook reminded me. I will always remember how ex was like... lets just get this over with as he was taking me to the place where he wanted to propose. So honestly, I was comparing my situation to theirs this morning because it was on my mind and I just feel/felt sad about it. I go through phases where I just feel so unloved and I have to keep reliving it with this lawsuit.
Anyway, those are the thoughts going through my mind. And as always, its just a reminder to never ever take for granted those around us. They could be gone in the blink of an eye. Its just so sad.
I will always remember how ex was like... lets just get this over with as he was taking me to the place where he wanted to propose.
I wonder how many of us had bad proposals and ignored the warning sign?
Mine took me away on a weekend vacation, and stopped the care just afer we got on the freeway to tell me he was going to propose to me that weekend but he just couldn't. I just said "that's ok" and we went ahead with our weekend. The next night he proposed to me at sunset and I told him no, he wasn't ready, but he pleaded and I accepted. Looking back I was a ridiculous doufus. If after a year of living together he was still so confused I should have run the other way, or at least stood firm in my refusal. (In retrospect, it's possible that guilt was eating at him, as he had been gone on a medical trip for part of the previous summer, and when he came home wanted to move into his own place. I talked him out of that - it was financially impractical for both of us for one thing - but in retrospect, I suspect he had a fling with one of the other medical students on the trip. I never connected the dots until after my divorce, but now I question a lot of things like that.)
Anybody else out there have a bad proposal that should have been a big red flag?
I had a bad proposal too. My xh and I were sitting in his mother's living room watching TV and he had been drinking. Out of his mouth came "let's get married". I just looked at him and laughed because I thought he was drunk. That was in the month of August and come January/February, he was having second thoughts and I had no issue w/not marrying him at that time.....but before he went back the Galena, Alaska for the last part of his tour there, he again asked me.
I should have seen all of the red flags, but when you are 20...you don't think about them. I, too, question a lot of things from that time and all the way up until after our divorce.
Wow. Time sure does fly. Its been a month since my last post. Nothing to report.... just living my life and grateful for having moved on from my sitch despite the looming d trial. Overall life is good. I have a great circle of friends who inspire and keep me busy. Im slowly integrating exercise back in to my life after burning myself out from working out too much and feeling burnt out in general over work. Im reprioritizing myself and am starting to feel back on track.
I used to read here before bed every night and now I watch lawyer shows. Watching tv in bed is not a habit I want to adopt, but Im just getting my mind geared for the trial. In the meantime, I look forward to finding some time to catch up on every one elses threads.
Anyway, as mentioned, nothing new to report. I think ex has tried to poke me in subtle ways, but I havent batted an eye. He just seems off his rocker. Weirdo.
Still dealing with nonsense from his old lawyer. His old lawyer had to finish up work from last year and hasnt submitted his docs nor has he officially brought the new lawyer up to speed. What is the deal with them???
Lastly, Id be surprised if ex doesnt try to settle this thing before going to trial. I think theres too much opportunity for exposure. I hope his new lawyer is realistic.
Weird that the mediator from December said that he was suspicious of the story ex was painting and that clearly ex had been prepped. Do you think a judge would catch on to that?
Well, thats all I got. Wishing you a lovely week ahead.
Great update Pax. Judges generally spend less time with parties than mediators, so don't expect a judge would pick up on that or even care for that matter.
Hello DB land,
Hope youre staying healthy out there. Im not a clinician but I work in healthcare and its nuts. So bananas. Its hard to wrap my brain around it.
Its scary seeing common day human behavior play out and it makes me sad. Hard to say what will happen in the upcoming weeks. I hope we all check back into what it means to be civil and caring for fellow man.
So.... if Im honest, I often have a little bit of compassion for my ex during this time of year. He has a big-big birthday coming up, a huge milestone in which he often placed his goals against... ie: by the time Im xx, I will (or will not).....
Granted I know very little about his life, but I cant imagine hes where he wanted to be at this time and that might be troubling for him.
With huge milestones, my family goes all out and we would have done the same for him... we did for his last milestone bday 10 years ago. Given all the COVID precautions, I cant imagine anything monumental going down. Even though he always said he hated his birthday, i knew he actually did like it... he just didnt want to articulate it because it made him vulnerable. He actually would talk about how he hated anything sentimental... but In hindsight he never wanted to get hurt. Hence the constant cutting and running.
So given the big birthday, the Covid pandemic, and lousy weather.... I just cant imagine him being in a good spot. Of course Im making it up, but I always had a fear of him ending his life under these circumstances. He did talk about it before..... I would hope that he doesnt and has progressed emotionally.
He just doesnt seem stable to me (and this is just given my crazy divorce case)
Well, thats all I got. Ill wish him a happy birthday silently in my heart as a hope that he just has peace in his life. After all, he did f it up pretty badly.
Pax, I think it's human nature when you near the end of something to look back on it a little more fondly than perhaps it warrants. Also, life/death stuff that is all around us now makes us more wistful and melancholy than usual. I think for me, I almost feel a Stockholm Syndrome thing by my inability to get away.
When those times come, I try to remember the hurt and the pain. Because that is the reality now. Yours not only cheated and lied to you, he hid money, lied to courts, tried to make you have to pay him, treats you like a plague carrier when you switch the dog. Not a good guy there and from what it sounds, no sense that he's gotten any kinder or more decent.
When I think about my life and what excites me, it is always a forward-looking thing now. Always the place I'm moving, my new home, what I will do there, how I spend time, the people I will meet. It isn't the past and it isn't someone who taught me he's untrustworthy, disloyal, and unfaithful.
Pax, I think it is very nice of you to think of your ex in times like this. I pray for you that you will stay healthy and safe through this crisis.
OwnIt, what you wrote reminds me of something that I read recently about recalling memories.
What I read was something like this....(translated)
Mesmerizing moments are fleeting. Painful moments seem to last forever. At the same time, mesmerizing moments are infinite. They are infinite because they are often immortalized. We recall the good moments over and over again, and in the process we add a little here and there, making it as grand as complicated as ever, like a maze that we cannot get out of. On the other hand, we avoid recalling the painful moments like the plague. Even if the moments pop into our minds surreptitiously, we'd do anything to run away from it. If we cannot outrun it, we eventually chose to forget it, simplify it, and turn it into a smoke, where we can blow on it, and it will disappear.
We must forgive to move forward with our lives, but most likely we won't be able to forget. When you say that you try to remember the hurt and the pain, it makes me think about how I will remember my current hurt and pain. not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just that you got me thinking.
Wooba, in time you will remember the painful times without the pain. To me, that is the essence of healing. They become more of a memory of oh yeah, my spouse was not really this fantastic person I remember them being, just a real person with real flaws, and it makes the new thoughts and the new memories more vivid and desirable.
Thank you wooba and own for your feedback above. I didnt want your comments to go unnoticed, but oh my gosh... what a week.
I have to admit... Im becoming obsessed with this pandemic. I live it as part of my job, and I live it as a human. Its shaken me. Ive never been super religious, but god bless each and every person who is putting themselves at risk for their fellow man.
Im trying really really hard to focus on the things that are within my control. This is just a maddening experience and I feel helpless. The healthcare system is in bad shape. Just stay the f home people. I want to get on my hands and knees and beg people to stay home.
Im here today to ask for reading recommendations. Any good books out there to help me cope with this crippling anxiety Im feeling? I went through the ole bomb drop/ dB books that I starting reading at the beginning of my journey and I dont think any of them will cut it. I thumbed through my eckhart tolle books... nah. Not what I needed.
This is a hard time and Im using every tool I have to keep me centered.
I've found myself in a similar situation. I've found that light reading helps me escape but yes - I do obsess over the news cycle.
Some books like "Man's search for meaning" which is often recommended here, would be far far too dark for me now.
Sorry that I can't help more.
I just started reading "the Road to Character."
other times I take my mind off things by watching Netflix. Ha!
Good Morning Pax
I do understand and empathize with you. Us front line critical worker cannot sit this thing out.
Your post inspired a response from me which got a little wordy - imagine that!
I moved it to my thread. Its all about rationalizing and such. Typical from me.
I do feel for the health care system. Too many people seeking it out right now.
Take care of yourself.
DnJ
Pax, thank you for your compassion and care. I know that it must be stressful. Anxiety is definitely rampant. For someone like me who has it even without this pandemic, it is doubly so. What is helping me is meditation, using Byron Katie's the Work to question my stressful thoughts... may want to check out her podcast with Oprah and Supersoul Sunday... she also has a website and lots of videos. Also, use EFT tapping. Gary Craig teaches how to do it to help with the feelings that get too intense. Helps me at least bring down the level. Also, breath into your belly. Make sure you take deep breaths all the way into your belly. You probably already know and do this, but every time someone reminds me, even thought I know this, I do it and I feel calmer.
Also, if you believe in anything... higher power, whatever, keep giving it all up. Blessings
I know you asked for books, Pax, and Im not 100% sure I can share the name of a podcast, so please
edit if needed, mods, but if you google coronavirus sanity guide you should find the first result is a page from Ten Percent Happiertheyve got guided meditations and theyve also got a podcast on managing anxiety related to the pandemic, with both a doctor and a rabbi/meditation expert talking about ways to acknowledge our anxiety and practice even little moments of mindfulness throughout the day. I find the podcast episode really calming to listen and re-listen to.
Pax, Checking in today with the forum. With us all being trapped at home, I am trying to reach out and just check on the world at large. Those of us dealing with MLCers and the aftermath... it can be hard. Especially sheltering in place with them. Lol.
I hope you are getting time to be peaceful with yourself. That you are healthy. That your family and friends are surrounding you with love and support. Sending you good thoughts.
Blessings
Hello friends,
Thank you so much for those recommendations above. I really needed it. Im so grateful for this community.
Admittedly, its been a whole month since Ive been here and I havent been catching up on anyones thread. I have a lot going on and, its so weird, but I can barely process anything. Its burnout... just being fried.
The only reading I have bandwidth for is work emails, and COVID info. As a healthcare administrator, I am living and breathing this stuff and feels like every waking moment is consumed.
Im not in a bad mental state like I was before... I think Ive come to accept the current reality and am just doing the best I can. Its exhausting though. I am trying to find ways to sneak in exercise, and eat right. Sleep could use some improving.... I end up staying up late watching mindless TV since it helps shut my brain down.
Its a crazy time otherwise. I was supposed to be moving right now. Thats not happening. I had to negotiate a short term lease with my landlord to get me through the next few months. My grandfather has been in and out of the hospital (and hes currently in the hospital right now). He seems to be on the mend, thank goodness. And ex has reared his head again.... sigh.
I feel like hes cornering me. Could just be a threat... could be real. In any case, I just dont have it in me right now. Hes assembling a team of accountants and lawyers to fight this to the very end.
Again, hes fighting to make sure I get nothing. Its not that Im asking for anything unreasonable and he needs to protect himself from me...... its so I walk away with nothing.
I dont know guys.... I have no more money to protect myself from him anymore. Its been 5 years of this. Never in a million years did I think the legal system could be this wretched. I thought a simple divorce case like ours would be cut and dry.
What do I do? Its so exhausting. Im so defeated.
Ah Pax, I'm so sorry.
I don't want to make light of your situation in any way, but I wish the many, many people in this world who don't understand why I don't go against the advice of experts I have talked to and file could read your posts. For some of us, it is not just a simple file and be done.
I'm glad you are in a better mental place. It is hard to get there and stay there, but being busy usually feels better than the alternative.
I wonder what your lawyer thinks of the threats? I often see a big flurry of garbage before someone gives up. It sounds like maybe he needs a "team of accountants and lawyers" to fight this thing because the ones he has talked to have told him he is hosed. I would try to write this off as the bully posturing (and bullies are all just cowards in reality), put it to the back of your mind, and just stay the course to get what you are entitled to. The judge has already sanctioned him. They have his number. Sounds a bit like a tempest in a teapot to me.
Stay safe in the world and focus on the better life on the other side of this.
Pax, I fired my lawyer and am just presenting everything myself. It's the judge's job to make an equitable distribution. Lawyers did nothing for me, everything I did was something I pushed myself. And it is not going to look good for my H to go in demanding everything with his histrionic bully of a lawyer and I am just alone with no lawyer. The only issue we have left is marital debt plus his delusional dream that I will pay alimony (we both make very little and I have full custody) and pay his legal fees when I can't even afford my own lawyer and have proof that I have tried to settle about fifteen times -- directly,through lawyers, an offer sent through a friend, an offer sent to his friend who paid his legal fees, an offer sent from a potential business partner of mine). So I figure, I am ready to just let the judge decide on those things and I am not going to waste any money on a lawyer anymore. In fact now I finally get to fight back when his lawyer bullies me. I'm not saying that your sitch is the same but in my case, all that was left was documented financial issues of debt and income. Grace recently asked me how badly I wanted to be done, and what that means is, what loss are you willing to take financially? If everything is documented, don't you think that a judge will grant you at least something close to what is equitable, based on documents alone? Do you have a trial date? I am ready to take a loss to be done. If all that is left for you is finances, I am not sure what you have to lose.
Also I have been doing research on asset dissipation. It's a real thing. You can file a TRO to stop him from dissipating the assets with endless legal fees. You just need a clear and simple solution for closure of the open issues for the judge to see. Even if your TRO doesn't work, you will get that idea into the narrative and show that you just want to be done and it's not you dragging it out.
I feel exactly the same as you. So weary, just want it to end.
Thanks Own, as always, for your perspective. I appreciate and value it so much. I think it is just bullying. I think he knows if we go to trial, hell be exposed regardless.
Its challenging for me, because he has this finesse, this way about cornering people. I wish I could explain it, but having lived through it on the sidelines as his wife and then living it now.... it really is something. Like very effective gaslighting in the subtlest of ways.
So he positions himself to appear that he is trying everything to get a settlement out of court and if I dont comply its because Im the bad guy and Im the one refusing and dragging this on.
Gerda, wow. I can imagine the courage it takes (and potential risks involved) in going alone and representing yourself. I know your ex was particularly difficult and Im sorry for all the has occurred.
Its all just really difficult.
Regarding his email....i havent considered replying. Maybe a simple, no would suffice or I could just ignore it??? Not really sure.
My lawyer read it and didnt have any feedback either way. I think it was because he was also in contact with exs lawyer about other things.
Now I'm not a lawyer, but OwnIt is and she will probably agree with my opinion that less is probably more in any sort of communication.
I listened to a podcast a while ago that said that when in front of a court (where I know you aren't now) to first think about if the question asked can be answered with a simple yes or no and to not volunteer extra information. The example was if asked "do you know what time it is", the answer could be either yes or no depending on if you see a clock
Opening your mouth to volunteer more information can first off annoy the judge and secondly will provide ammunition for the other side.
If you feel that a response is required, which you'll want to think hard on that, a simple "I acknowledge receipt of your email dated xxyy" while cold and perhaps confrontational does let him know that you got it and have read it. You could also add "will review with my advisors".
Another piece of advice that I got here I think was to first imagine that any communication you make, especially written could be brought before a judge as evidence.
Yes, Andrew is right on all points there.
There are generally four acceptable answers (unless being put to you by your own lawyer at a depo or in a trial based on a previous understanding of what the responses are, because a good lawyer never asks a question they don't know the answer to).
The acceptable answers (and again truthfulness is required, while helpfulness is not):
1. Yes
2. No
3. I don't know
4. I can't recall
The difference between 3 and 4 being that you may have known at one time, but you no longer do. If a follow up or further explanation is needed, your lawyer will deal with that on redirect, etc. To the other side, you say only what you must.
No need to respond to him and it won't help anything. He wants the drama to continue. Why? Attention, a sense of CONTROL, need for drama. All the same reasons mine pulls this garbage. Remember, they like any attention, good or bad (Terrence Real explains the difference in his book on male depression "I Don't Want to Talk About It"). Yours is not ready for the show to be over and loves to make you suffer. If you haven't, read up on antisocial behavior type.
Own, now that I am my own lawyer, in communication with H's lawyer, I correct lies and fully explain financial issues, etc. This has moved some things slightly in my direction -- e.g., in phone conference with court (courts are closed) when his L tried to get something absurd to happen -- and also has allowed a paper trail I didn't have before, of a very clear history of offers and clear explanations of financial issues and children's needs. I usually write something way too long and then wait a couple days and slash and burn to make it as short and unemotional as possible. But it's still quite detailed. I am also trying to make it very clear how pointless it will be to go to trial since there is nothing to uncover or catch me in. The idea of trial is based on H's delusions, not the reality of bank accounts and living breathing children.
So I wonder if you can clarify your legal tip there-- are you just talking about in court? My lawyers tended to say almost nothing in reply to communications as a strategy but it really only allowed 18 months of lie building by H and his monster-on-a-chain lawyer, which deeply influenced the court, and for my kids' needs to drift off any radar.
Gerda, I was responding to Andrew about the way you answer questions in these scenarios.
Your situation and Pax's are very different. She has an attorney and he's being a bully by contacting her and making threats. Best to ignore.
Its really tough. I do so much better when hes silent.
After his initial email, I replied to let him know that I forwarded it to my attorney. Got an aggressive response back which I ignored as it did not require acknowledgment.
Then the next day, I got a more level headed email. He is not wavering in his approach, but his response was more level headed.
I cant get into it anymore that that, but its so mentally and emotionally draining. Hea so adamant that he is doing the right thing by me.
And that triggers me, big time. Its that reminder that I was nothing but a disposable accessory to him. And thats where it hits the hardest. While Im over him and the marriage, theres still that underlying pain of having gone through all that.
Pax, I can't say I know anything about lawyers, but I will say, you are not a disposable accessory. Please don't say that even here. If we say it, then some part of us believes it. I know how much this hurt you. I know as I am going through it now. But you were his WIFE and you are still loved and valuable. Even if he doesn't show it or see it, you must know it.
If not, I dare you to go to the mirror, look in your own eyes and tell yourself- I LOVE YOU. YOU ARE ENOUGH. YOU ARE WORTHY. YOU ARE EVERYTHING. I WILL NEVER ABANDON YOU.
Please keep saying it. If all we have, ever, is ourselves... then let's be our own best friend. Our own cheerleader. Our own lover. Our own world. No one can make us an accessory or anything else. We-- YOU-- are more than that.
Always were... always will be.
Blessings
Oh Believe, what a nice and grounding message. Thank you for that. I appreciate it.
Definitely touches on some of the things I dealt with in my marriage. When It ended, I went to our mc on my own and she told me you are never going to be good enough for him, nothing you do will ever be good enough for him... he doesnt see you.
And while thats on him, I felt it. I tried harder and harder to please him just to be acknowledged. I literally had nothing left for myself. So sick when I think of it... but we do the best we can at the time. I didnt know better and maybe I was in survival mode because there was no way I could see or even understand the repercussions of my own behavior. I needed to stand up for myself and I didnt know how to do that at the time. 5 years later and it sends me into a tailspin still when he tries to control the situation
The door might be open for us to start negotiating. Im suspicious of it all and it has triggered me big time the last few days.
I get it.. I dont need to agree on anything unless I feel its fair. But even having his presence in my mind is too much. Definite ptsd- and Im reminded of the last several times where I didnt succumb to his demands. Its emotional terrorism at its finest.
But thank you again believe. I think its time I bust out my mantras again. They do help!!
Hang in there Pax... you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. He doesn't have control anymore... you do.
Thank you Pinn!!! Almost there.
I came across this quote today and I loved it-
Having a soft heart in a cruel world is strength, not weakness.
And I needed that... I know Im a bleeding heart sometimes. I care. Ive felt like i have to fake my toughness when it comes to ex. And while, yes, I need to stand up for myself, I dont need to compromise who I am at the core.
Hellloooo friends. Been a long while since Ive posted.
Its been 5 years now since the ex and I separated. 5! It blows my mind to think that weve been apart longer than we were married (and no, Im still not officially divorced).
5 years later and I feel good. I genuinely feel gratitude and appreciation for the life that Ive built over the years. Its a good life, but it definitely took time and effort to get here.
Im reflecting on this because I had an interaction with an old neighbor today. I was dropping off my pup at my old house and the neighbor was taking his walk. I hadnt seen him in years and I was surprised that he remembered me. He stopped to say hello, we had a moment of brief chit chat and then he put his hand over his mouth as if to whisper something and said, we miss you. It was the sweetest thing. Sometimes I feel like my neighborhood thinks Im Cruella DeVille or something based on whatever narrative ex gives. (Our private road leaves a lot of room for nosy neighbors with lots of opinions). It just felt nice to be remembered. As I drove off, I got upset. I guess Im still not over the fact that I was tossed aside and forced to build a new life, while the ex got to carry on as usual. That part still stings a lot. I didnt want to give up the life I had. I kind of abandoned those around me.
This is another thing I learned about d-bing and the LRT- which I implemented right away. It doesnt lend itself to closure. Not necessarily with ex...but with everything. When we separated, i immediately went dark. Our lives where so enmeshed that I went dark on all levels- relatives, friends, neighbors... etc. There was no good bye to the inlaws, no official good byes to the friends. Well, there was one friend whom I specifically told I needed to step back from because she was too close to ex and she was sharing stories with me. I was so committed to LRT that over time I was dark for so long and ex twisted the narrative so much that I really did become the villain. Somehow, the story reflected me as being the one who abandoned things and then was trying to be greedy with money.
Anyway, all of that was really hard to reconcile in my mind for a long time. And while Ive struggled with that... I think Ive gotten to a place where Im ok that I didnt get that closure, even though I really wish I could have maintained a relationship with my niece and nephew!
And meh... Im definitely ok with not having closure with wx. Actually I have all the closure I need from that.
Well, thats all I got. Life continues to move forward and I just keep trying to be the best pax I can be. Also, I absolutely can not wait for this divorce to be finalized so I can officially close this chapter. Hopefully it really is just a few more months of this.
Hello!
Its been a while. Just popping in. This place continues to be the safe space for when I need to vent. To this date, Im so glad I came across this community many years ago!
Speaking of years- I had a good chuckle the other day. I had the realization that Ive been in a (professional) relationship with my divorce attorney for far longer than I was even married. Huh. Interesting and sad at the same time.
Well things are starting to ramp up as we approach our trial. Its frustrating and exasperating. Im finding myself getting triggered and moreso recognizing the physiological effects of the stress. Now that I know how my body reacts to trauma, I can do things to manage it. I know that exercise and sleep need to my utmost priority.
Ex has made good on his threat and is doing everything possible to demonstrate why I am entitled to nothing from our life together. As I mentioned before, he was a sneak with our finances and may have been playing me the entire marriage. That part stings. Also, having to prove that I was a contributing partner in our marriage is very demoralizing. I wont get into it, but it feels undignified to have to provide evidence of all this. Its just a dagger in the heart every time I have to reconcile this. I felt the pain and angst once we split, but to realize that he was playing me all along is just crazy making. Its like another layer of pain that I have to work through. What a scum bag.
Outside of this, life is good. Im staying in and working from home. Im really really eager for the trial to be over and i pray for justice and fairness.
Hi, Pax. Having just had my H spew that I deserve nothing from our life together, your post struck me. How ridiculous, I think, that you have to prove that you were a contributing partner! I started reading many of your past threads, and they resonated so much with me, especially as I expect the D process to start soon and will probably need a L to protect myself from H. I can imagine he's going to be so mad about that. I'm now having many of the same feelings and doubts you were having when you retained a L. I'm also around your age with no children. I hope reading your words along with so many others' reassurances and responses will help me to get comfortable with firm boundaries and standing up for myself. It scares me, honestly, to think what could still be ahead, but I suppose there's no point in worrying about that now, as what will come to pass will come to pass. I feel like I can't make it through another week of this sometimes, and I know I'm at the beginning. I don't know how you and others here get through these drawn-out chapters! But you do, and I hope you get all the justice and fairness you so rightly deserve. Sending strength to you!
Oh cardinal... Im so sorry for the situation you are in. Its awful. I was so enmeshed with my ex that I took everything he said to heart.. even though I shouldnt have. Everything from me being the reason he didnt love me to allowing him to get in my head and freak me out about his threats re: finances. Cardinal, I dont post much because I just dont feel like I have any value added commentary... just know you are not alone and you will get through this. I know you will and Im rooting for you.
Personally, outside of these current divorce shenanigans, I can honestly say my life is so much better than it was when I was married. Im more fulfilled, I have more genuine friendships, Im happy. I think this is the result of really diving in and doing the work needed. Im so grateful for the life I have created. It takes time and intention but its possible.
Now, back to the d.. ex is contesting everything. Cant share more than that, but my god.... weve got a long slog ahead of us.
Oh and-
Hello bttrfly. Hugs to you as well. I was driving in my neighborhood and came across a car with a license plate about a wolf rescue and I paused for a moment to send you good wishes. I know youve been in the muck lately as well.
Thats actually my new thing I started doing since shelter in place orders occurred. Every time I come across something that specifically makes me think of someone/ something, I take it as a sign. I pause, say a prayer, a good wish or set a good intention and go on my way. The more I do this, the more the signs keep coming!
Personally, outside of these current divorce shenanigans, I can honestly say my life is so much better than it was when I was married. Im more fulfilled, I have more genuine friendships, Im happy. I think this is the result of really diving in and doing the work needed. Im so grateful for the life I have created. It takes time and intention but its possible.
you've worked hard honey and the payoff is what you've written here ^^
I'm so proud of you!!
Now, back to the d.. ex is contesting everything. Cant share more than that, but my god.... weve got a long slog ahead of us.
it was ever thus with him.
Oh and-
Hello bttrfly. Hugs to you as well. I was driving in my neighborhood and came across a car with a license plate about a wolf rescue and I paused for a moment to send you good wishes. I know youve been in the muck lately as well.
Thats actually my new thing I started doing since shelter in place orders occurred. Every time I come across something that specifically makes me think of someone/ something, I take it as a sign. I pause, say a prayer, a good wish or set a good intention and go on my way. The more I do this, the more the signs keep coming!
ty ty ty and this is beautiful Pax. I love this!!! xoxoxo
As I inch closer to trial, my anger and frustration over my exs shenanigans is really getting to me. Im so over our situation and I have zero desire to have to rehash everything. I need to update some of the financial docs and Im just pissed. This man played me like a fool. Im smarter than this. I was a very weak wife who learned early on in the relationship to walk on egg shells around the man and it bit me in the arse big time. Im mad that I sacrificed so much of myself for him and he completely took advantage of it (and demanded that i pretzel myself to meet him where he was at)
Im mad that I trusted him. And I shouldnt have. No, like, I really shouldnt have. I knew this was what he was capable of. I was so naive. He would never do THAT to his own wife.
Im disappointed that my trial will be virtual because I really wanted him to have to face me while he lied under oath. He would never make eye contact, of course. He hasnt looked me in the eyes in 6 years. But I Just needed to see it. Would he squirm, would he hesitate, could he just flat out lie without a flinch?
He couldnt even look at me during our court ordered mediation last year and we were sitting directly across from each other. I, on the other hand, was able to look at him. I have nothing to hide.
If youve followed along for any number of years, you will remember that I always knew this was a possibility. While I stupidly wanted to reconcile with the man, I knew it would be a contentious divorce nonetheless because I knew him. I knew he would do anything - anything- not to lose. And here we are. Its gonna be a rough few weeks, but this chapter will soon come to a close. I can not wait.
i think, love, that you are really angry at yourself. i get it, and that's ok. feel the anger, then let it go so forgiveness can come in. pax, you're on a journey towards forgiving yourself. you didn't know what you didn't know. you believed what you believed in innocence and because of your own pure and true heart. there is nothing there to be ashamed of or to feel anything negative about. your pure and true heart are beautiful graces that you were born with. they help make you the unique and lovely soul that you are.
you are very strong dearest and will come through shining and bright. I believe in you. xoxoxo
Hello hello. Popping in to unload some thoughts. My saga will soon come to and end and Im exhausted by the stress and excitement of it all. I can feel the toll its taking.
Interesting, after 5 years, I finally shared the whole story with my family last night. They knew bits and pieces but I never gave them the whole picture all at once. There were many things I left out over the years. But, Im so far out now that I can share my experience and all those details that Ive kept quiet. In the past, I was too emotional about it, it was really hard to talk about. Even today, I have such an emotional hangover after reliving the sitch last night. Its just so weird.
I keep having dreams that my ex is trying to murder me. Uhhhhhh thats not good! Ive had 3 in the last 2 weeks. I know its because of what Im up against but Its still hard.
In each dream, he comes off as totally calm, collected, but he keeps trapping me. Its like no matter what I do, he masterminds the whole thing so I am stuck no matter what I do. And he keeps telling me that I am doing this to myself. Its like one of those Saw movies. I know theres some psychology there I need to unpack but Im too tired haha
As mentioned, this whole process is taking its toll. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Regardless of what happens, I will be free soon. Just typing that brings tears to my eyes. Ill finally be free.
Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty I'm free at last!
Hello there!
Been a while!
Im divorced as of a few weeks ago! Well, Im still waiting for the paperwork from his side so who knows when that will be.
We ended up settling right before trial. I left a ton on the table. But I couldnt do it anymore. They were going to destroy me in court. He had fake testimony drawn up. We were going to have it thrown out but his family actually wrote fake testimony to explain where his money (and our money) went missing. And to declare that he owed them money which explains why he lost a bunch 2 days before we separated and cleared the accounts.
You would not even believe the bs this guy pulled. If I had a dark bone in my body I would be calling the feds. But I have no desire to waste even two seconds thinking about him.
Evil evil evil.
But I am free! And Im good. I did not get a fair settlement. I learned a lot in the process. For example- I went in 50/50 because I felt that was fair. He went in 100-0. So really the only way to negotiate was to go down to his level which was a far cry from 50/50. And i only went 50/50 on appropriate items like house equity, savings accounts, etc.
So financially, does it pay off to be fair? nope.
Is my heart totally clear and my integrity in tact? you betcha. I have zero remorse over my stance.
Nope I wont have a down payment on a condo, and Ill be paying legal debt for while, but I can sleep at night.
The ex on the other hand, seems a bit in turmoil. He maintains his stance that I am the devil. Meanwhile, he got the financial sweet end of the stick. Which is what he wanted.
Good riddance.
Oh one more thing...
When I got his briefs and witness testimony, I think it hit me that I might be in a dangerous situation. I mean if this guy would go to these lengths not to lose, imagine what he would do if the judge ruled in my favor on anything. I actually got nervous for my safety. I wouldnt necessarily say that I am/was scared for my life.... but if youre willing to go to these lengths... when will it end?? When Im dead? When you destroy me in some other capacity?
Im being serious. I think my story evolved way beyond MLC several years ago...
Ugh Pax finally!! Hard to believe it is almost 5 years ago to the day that you joined the forum and this chapter is closing for you now. I am so grateful that I was able to follow your journey. You were there for me every step of the way and I tried to reciprocate. This news makes me very happy for you.
I know you came here to try and save your marriage, but I truly believe this is a way better out come for you. I think you will have a better and more fulfilling life without him. I remember reading back in newcomers and marveling at how much you focused on using that gift of time to learn about yourself and relationships. I hope it gave you a super clear picture of exactly what you want in future relationships. You really embraced that time like few others. I remember all your activities. Half marathons, full marathons, Mt Whitney, triathlons, humanitarian medical missions, body building competition, personal development the list goes on and on. I hope you can take some time and reflect back on how far you have come. You are a special person, do not forget that. Any man will be lucky to have you. Congrats Pax!
Hello Pax
I am happy you are clear of such an evil horrible situation. Yes, the lengths some of these people go to are incredible. Wonderful to read you are free of him, finally.
And yeah, being able to sleep at night is worth a lot!
D
Congratulations for getting it all done and over with. Although you did not get what you deserved, at least you can move on now. Skys the limit Pax!!! (((HUGS)))
Congratulations on your freedom. And trust your gut. Cut all ties with ex and give him no response of any kind to anything. I think your instinct that hes some kind of dark triad pathological is correct. Get far far away from that. Go towards a joyful life.
congrats Doll. echoing K - trust your gut. There are more important things than $$
Congratulations Pax! I recently watched the Chris Watts doco and felt the same way about my safety. Definitely trust your gut and stay safe.
if youre willing to go to these lengths... when will it end?? When Im dead? When you destroy me in some other capacity?
Im being serious. I think my story evolved way beyond MLC several years ago...
Yes, totally. You and me. Pax, it's so odd how similar our stories ended up being.
My in-laws also turned on me, though they would never offer documentation like yours. I almost found that more hurtful than my H's betrayal! How could my MIL give up 20 years of our family history and the ability to see her grandchildren?! (She won't see me and my S won't see her if she won't see me, though I offered.)
All the MLC stuff I was able to bear/accept/forgive/make peace with. But the stuff that happened during the divorce process, which started in year 5 of MLC, that stuff is what got me scared. It wasn't just that he wasn't like the man I married or that he didn't see things clearly or thought wrongly of me or our history. It was that he seemed to want me dead and that he was willing to do all kinds of crazy unethical stuff to ensure that I lost everything and/or was punished. Now I fear for my D11. I don't know what he is capable of anymore. He was abused in every way and I know that can often get passed to the next generation.
Recently I was talking to my stepfather and he told me that he and my mom always thought my H treated me poorly and didn't truly love me and that he gaslighted me. I mean long before the MLC began.
The problem is that my mom was diagnosed with her own cluster disorders and definitely had an MLC and was always accusing my dad of gaslighting her! She was totally crazy and very terrible to us in many ways and my stepdad doesn't realize maybe how deep that went. I think growing up in that household is my big wound that led me to think that what I had with my H was how all relationships were. But I do wish my mom was still here -- because I wish I could be kind to her now that I am more able to be, and because I wish I could hear more about what she thought she saw. (She died in 2016, and oh how awful it was to have my MLCer go with us on the trip to the funeral.)
It's hard to know the truth. I do always think that our love for our H's could have been the healing balm for them and us both. They chose to reject it. But it could have gone either way, and I don't regret any of my stand.
Hi friends,
Thank you so much for your comments and good wishes. While Im not very interactive (Im more of an observer), I have learned so much from each one of you and Im so grateful for everyone who has chimed in on my threads over the last 5 years.
I have a feeling my ex isnt going to fade into the night. Narcissism at its finest. Not until he feels hes been victorious will he let me go. This I know.
I actually read through the draft judgment that his attorney wrote up and there were wayyyy too many holes. Ive learned that I can leave nothing up to interpretation because hes going to be actively looking for ways to discredit or poke holes in the agreement. I still expect him to sue me.
As mentioned, Ive not shared many details in depth here out of protection.
Gerda- yes, to everything youve said. Being married to the guy was tough. I thought I had enough strength to endure those tough times/ his tough personality. He pushed everyone aside and selfishly I thought I could prove to him that I would be there for him, that he didnt have to be so callous. <-Hahahah I laugh now.
I held my own for 4 years of the marriage before he threw me away like yesterdays garbage. And then when I didnt go away like he wanted, then everything hit the fan. My god its been a rough 5 years. Im exhausted.
Im also frustrated. I had so much hope for freedom and so much hope for stability, but I have to persevere for longer now. Im so tired. I just know hes not going to go away. I always ignore the pokes and never give him the satisfaction. Communication is very very sparse and when hes nuts I dont engage at all. Just ignore.
Hes done some things recently that has made my life more difficult and Im frustrated that I have to redo things... Im being vague there, but its just something Im dealing with.
Finally, heres a good laugh for you....
The beanie made it into the draft of the judgment.
You cant make it up.
Just try to get it done and get out. Move to another town after it's done. Don't give him your new address. Just become the gray rock. Leave him in the rearview mirror!
Pax, we're rooting for you here. There will be an end to all of this!
Best wishes with what you are feeling with.
Hello DB friends,
Been a while since I popped in. Truth be told I still lurk from time to time but dont have it in me to routinely post. I am tired. Covid fatigue is real.
I just remembered that it had been a year since the failed court-ordered mediation. I cant believe how quick and slow the time goes. I remember finally feeling somewhat validated when the mediator was like hes such an a-h*le yep... he used the full term too. Not the abbreviation I annotated. It was a moment of whew, Im not being unrealistic.I needed that.
As I documented here, the rest of the trial journey was more of the same. Ive officially been divorced since the end of September but we still dont have anything submitted to the court. Im soooo mad. I mean, did I really expect it to be any other way??
As part of the settlement we agreed that they would absorb the cost of completing the paperwork and getting it ready for signature. Welllllllllllll Im still waiting. As suspected they keep adding in things that werent agreed upon. And while some of the items legally should be done now, as they were read into the record, the ex still isnt complying. Such a leach.
Ahhhh Im so tired. When will this be over? I mean Ive been paying my lawyer for longer than I was married. This is insanity. Obviously Im frustrated, but I do continue to have peace in my heart and I dont take that for granted.
Thats all I got for now.
Warm holiday wishes to you all....
ugh Pax.... your sitch is never ending. Hang in there! I feel like good things are ahead for you!
Dang. Made a post and it got deleted. Must be a sign to keep my mouth shut. Haha
2021. WOW. What a year so far. Im still feeling out of sorts as a results of the happenings this week.
I was going to share the latest updates in my sitch that have me frustrated but Ill wait. Lets just say the drama hasnt ended yet.... and did we expect anything less from my ex?? Things got a little crazy trying to get him and his side to do the paperwork for the divorce. Surprise, he fired his attorney instead.
The final season of the Pax Divorce is soon to be over, but not without some good drama.
Wishing you all health and peace...
Wishing you a final divorce in 3021!
Negotiation with a narcissist. Think you reach a deal, they insist on more changes. After that happens too many times, they fire the lawyer and start over again. I'd say you are right on schedule. Hope this is the year it all comes to pass.
Its been 6 years. Ive kept my poise and decorum throughout the entire process. Ive bit my tongue. Ive let things go.
But... after all this time..... today more than ever, Im trying to keep my snark to a minimum. Haha. Actually, I want to be snarky because this is just obscenely rediculous.
The beanie.
Oh lord.... the beanie.
He still thinks I have a beanie of his.
I struggle with sharing too much because it is a clearly identifiable piece of info. But..OH MY GOD... he will not let the beanie go!!!!
He said I have it, and I owe him a brand new one (it was purchased in 2013... its old). He said it was kept in plastic this whole time??? I sent him a picture showing when he was wearing it and he said he only wore it for the pic and then sealed it back up.
Oh my word.
I am on Amazon right now... I want to buy him 10 beanies and leave a note that says, I hope you and your beanies have a wonderful life together.
Also I want to add to the note... I know how much the original beanie must have meant to you since you valued it more than a marriage. <-ok that part is just dumb. But dang it..... Its beyond petty.
Coming here so I can keep my cool. Im just beyond words. My lawyer was like.... youve spent more in legal fees on this single beanie issue than like the cost 50 beanies.
There are no words.
WTF. He wore the beanie once then resealed it? Must be one of those limited edition beanies handmade from finest Nepalese cashmere handwoven with 24-karat gold thread. You really have to laugh at how effing stupid they make themselves look. I did, anyway!
Lol the beanie again!!!! The song Raspberry Beret started playing in my head!
What IS so special about this beanie? Is it some rare limited edition band swag? Did the OW give it to him? Wtf???
He is still harping on that freaking beanie? If he remembers sealing it up in plastic, then he has to know where the heck it is. For all you know, he could have tossed it out a long time ago or it's still packing in his stuff. OMG! I can remember my nut wanting stuff he had donated to a church yard sale. He swore up and down that I still had the stuff. Do you think he's harping on this item so that you will allow him to come to the house and do a walk through? You have told him time and again you don't have it. I would listen to him talking about it and let it go out the other ear. I wouldn't purchase another one nor would I give him the money for it. It's old and truth be told, if you did happen to purchase one, he would find something else to go on and on about that he thinks is still in your home. In his mind, if you purchase a new one for him, he will think you destroyed the other one...and will make every effort to guilt you even when you don't have it or destroyed it. Just leave him be.
MLCers are worse than kids. They fixate on one thing and will drive you crazy over it until you give in and then they start up again w/something new. If you don't have it, you don't have it....don't even think about replacing it. He's a grown man and can get another one for himself. When they finally realize that you aren't going to bend over backwards to give them what they are harping on, he will stop it eventually. Listen and then let it go in one ear and out the other. I know it's frustrating, but you can't reason w/him because he is not rational and no matter what you do, it will never be enough.
Good Morning Pax
Wise to keep your snark to a minimum. The best revenge is a life well lived.
ex obviously has some importance attached to this beanie. He is lead by his feelings, which wont appear to make sense, wont be rational, and his decisions and behaviours will follow suit. Yet, at some level within him, it will kind of make sense - to him. It will feel somewhat right.
Emotions produce pretty strong pressures and impulses, which can get tangled and trigger by material things, places, people, events , and such. Even just the memories of such can send someone off on an emotional roller coaster. Weve all been there with our BD and our wild imaginations of what must be going down in our spouses new wonderful lives, so I suspect you can empathize with his been lost and lashing out over such an innocuous and inexpensive item. However, the value to him appears rather high, such is the cost of emotional crisis.
Of course he is blaming you. And nothing you say or do will appease him. If the beanie is truly lost, I wouldnt be surprised if he actually lost his prized possession, cannot face that, and is projecting upon you. He is crafting his reality as he goes along. The beanies whereabouts was under plastic the entire time, until photographic evidence showed him wearing it. Well, well, um, only for that picture - then back in the vault. A quick revision to the the historical rewrite and back on track.
Depending on how much youd like to learn, and how much of an olive branch youd like to extend, you could ask him about the beanie. About its importance. And if a replacement one would help. You can only control you. Do so with compassion and empathy. It might, or might not, make much of a difference to his trajectory, but it will affect yours.
Poise and decorum, no need to end that now. Continue your excellent path.
ex, Im sorry the beanie appears to be lost. Ive looked and I do not have your beanie in my possession. It obviously is important to you, and if I had it Id return it. The last I remember seeing it was in that photo of you wearing it <or whatever event you recall>. Have you considered a replace beanie? Amazon has one for $x which is available for shipment right now. Here is the link if you are interested. <hyperlink for shinny new beanie>
Take care Pax
D
Whew. I think we know by now that Im a lurker and only poke my head above water when I really need to vent. Its my safe space here to let things out when Im going absolutely bonkers over the ex nonsense. Thank you for allowing me to release the pressure valve a bit.
The ex blew something completely out of proportion today. I knew he would.... I gave him ammo to fly off the handle because i defied him by not paying him $10. (<~ thats right)
Normally, I roll over and take it because hes an absolute lunatic. But today I stood my ground and it backfired.
Im so tired of him. Will he ever go away? When will he be done?? Ive been done..... Im completely and utterly dark and yet He finds something wrong with everything. Sociopath.
He threatened to sue me today and I would share the details here because you would get a good laugh out of it, but hed sue me for that too if he ever found my postings.
My lawyer said he would be laughed out of a court room if he did proceed. Maybe so..... but I dont want to deal with this legal crap anymore.
When do they go away? Seriously?
Pax, Pax, Pax. You definitely have a keeper there (as in you will never be free of him). I'm so very sorry. Please tell me this had nothing to do with beaniegate.
How is the doggie doing?
I hate to say it, but I do agree w/OwnIt. Some of them never go away. The $10 reminds me of a time when I used a gas card (just prior to the Mother Ship taking my xh up into space) and when the bill came in, he went nuts about the $10 I had put on the credit card for gas. Trust me...I know exactly what you, and everyone else, has and continues to go through. It's not an easy road to navigate, but there will come a time, when you need to find the humor in it all and realize that you can't rationalize w/them. BTW, your lawyer is right...he would be laughed out of the court room over something as silly as this and, yes, the beanie story.
Hang in there!
It surely is related to beanie gate. Hes a very mad sociopath having a complete meltdown temper tantrum right now. Me and the lawyer are trying to come up with a plan to get him off my back.
I know its not nice to call names. Hes seriously out of his mind. And I dont appreciate the fact that I have to pay to defend myself from his antics. Its too much. Too too much.
Could you imagine if I actually met fire with fire?? I might be dead right now. Thats not an exaggeration.
They get fixated on something and they won't let it go. Boy, do I remember those meltdowns over things that my xh had taken and then he swore up and down that I still had them. I can't help but think that they use these so called missing items as a way to validate how they feel and it continues to fuel their anger towards us. They truly lose the plot on some things.
I understand having to defend yourself and have to pay to do so. I went through the same thing many years ago and I am so ever thankful that my little nut is long gone and taken up with wife #3.
Please be very careful. There is no way to tell just how much anger is bubbling underneath all of that facade. Sometimes, they can't control themselves because the hatred and anger are so strong.
Hey Job, I think you are right, they need to cling to something to fuel the anger and justify their behavior.... as
Childish as it may be.
Gosh, I wish he was on wife #3 (Im #2), maybe then he could focus on something else like controlling his next victim.
I hear the warning Job... loud and clear.... I recently moved and while he knows the building Im in, Ill never let him know which unit (and Ive asked my lawyer to keep it confidential too).
Ugh this saga is not over.
Own.... hi... just wanted to say thanks for popping in as well. Youve given me solid words throughout the years.
Pax, do be careful. I do really worry with yours.
Can you ask your attorney if he can do something called an offer of judgment on the beanie so that your ex will be on the hook for the attorney fees going forward. Find the value of the beanie. Send him an offer of judgment telling him you didn't take it, don't know where it is, here is proof of the value of the same, and you are offering it to him so he will leave you alone now and forever. If he doesn't take it and sues you and gets less, then he has to pay your attorney fees. I just looked up your state and it seems to have a statute recognizing the concept. I've used it successfully before to resolve complex litigation, so it should do just fine for a beanie. Offer a little more than its worth (or double) to make sure the finding is less.
Thats where Im at own. I think thats the plan. I found better quality beanies online (brand new... not from 2013) and they range from $17-25. At first I told my lawyer I would pay for half since it was a marital asset. Ok, I get thats jerky of me..... but give this guy an inch, hell take a mile. There has to be a line somewhere. The man literally got everything in the house. Everything.
He actually took $250 off the equalization payment because thats what he thinks it worth... so Ive been trying to be made whole with that. He then said I owe him 10 for the dogs flea meds and I said I have a $250 credit and Im not paying anything. And that is what precisely set him off. Ive never told him no before. So.... of course Im going to pay what is needed for the dog... but enough already! This guy deliberately goes out of his way to punish.
As mwd says... if things arent changing, do something different..... so I did. It backfired... as I suspected. Ugh just want him to go away.
Thinking some more...
I held pretty firm with this beanie crap because it is asinine and I need to put a stop to this because I just feel like theres always going to be something else.... theres always going to be a next thing. Because thats just how it is with him. So far Ive not experienced the nothingness of/from him. I think hes always going to poke and prod until he feels like hes won.
And come to think of it... I probably p1ssed him off when I was practically begging him to let this go so we could really wrap up the d. I was like- come on, let this be done. Let this go. Seriously. Let this go. Let this be done.
Pax, ask specifically about the offer of judgment because it will cost him a fortune if he pursues it and loses. It will also appease him in that you are admitting you are responsible for it. The reality, you aren't, you are just setting him up to have to pay your attorney fees from the time you make the offer if he pursues it.
I know its hard, but if you give in to his petty and ridiculous nickel and diming, he doesn't get the energy (and you don't have to pay your attorney to deal with it). If you are gray rock, and give no energy, it won't be fun to poke at you any more. Remember its about the fight, not the money. No fight, no fun, no fun, find someone else to mess with.
Every time I push to get the divorce resolved, mine runs way in the opposite direction. I am so far past done now. I am just getting ready for trial and letting the court decide it so I can be done and move on.
I talked to my lawyer. He didnt know about the offer of judgment. He suggests I just let him have it. I.e...have the 250 he thinks its worth just to drop it.
Its already a $1,000 issue for me.
Im so done. So upsetting.
Its late here and I just fired off a moody email to my attorney. Ehhhh... I probably shouldnt have but I had to sit on a few things today and think them through and it kind of made me angry. I ended up stewing vs processing. I wasnt unkind in the email... just expressed my disappointment. I wish I was more protected in this beanie issue. And I hate that Im even saying that. Like how is this an actual issue???
Just like I know its not about the beanie for ex.... its about him feeling like he wins and has control, the same goes for me. Its not about the $250. I wanted to put my foot down on this petty issue so he would go away and maybe not bother me anymore. Sadly....he gets his way and he knows that if hes irritating enough, hell get his way in the future too.
The bulk of my case is over, its just the tying up of loose ends and I know my attorney is done with me. I think thats why Im not feeling as protected. Theoretically I shouldnt even be needing him anymore but since ex turns everything legal.. I still gotta use him and pay $$$$.
Once upon a time I stumbled across a support group for people recovering from narcissistic abuse. Honestly, I think its time I look it up again. Maybe do some therapy too. Im finding myself falling into similar thinking patterns based on experiences that I had with ex. (Not sure if that makes any sense.... but I find myself doing things and then being like pax, its ok if you did xxx or didnt do xxx nobody is judging you- youre ok.). An example, Ive been dating the same guy for a while now and I recently moved to a new place with the bathroom attached to master bedroom. During the night, when he stays over, I get up and use the guest bathroom down the hall because Im afraid that Ill wake the guy. Why do I do this? Because my ex would get so mad if I accidentally woke him to go use the restroom and I never heard the end of it. <~. And its little behaviors like that, that I do all the time because of how I was trained with ex. I dont want my new guy to be like ugh Im so done with pax, shes pees in the middle of the night!! Haha
And for the record, I actually shared that experience with the new guy and he was so sweet about it. I guess I had to cop to it sometime. I just keep waiting for him to come at me for leaving water drops in the sink. (Rolls eyes)
Good Morning Pax
Sorry you ended up stewing more than processing over the latest events and requisite email to your lawyer.
I wish I was more protected in this beanie issue. And I hate that Im even saying that. Like how is this an actual issue???
Trying turn this on its head.
It is an issue. One you cannot control. So let go of the emotions and deal with it as business. The hating of it comes from expectations and ones emotional investment being unmet. At this time, your hope and expectations that XH will go away if you put your foot down. He most likely will not.
He will go away once all the loose ends are tied up; more accurately you will. You will move forward and he will not exist rent-free in your mind.
Emotionally, its your ego. Let him go. You cannot make him see. Sometimes, one needs to stop arguing and just let them be wrong.
The old thinking pattern are hard to alter. We mistakenly mind read others and predict their reactions based upon our past experiences with different people. The mid-night bathroom run is a good example of how talking about it alleviated those nagging concerns of yours.
If being woken up mid-slumber is some sleep depriving issue, accommodations would be made. The actual root problem wouldnt be being woken up, its not getting back to sleep. A siren, a dog barking, etc, all would awaken the suffer. Trundling down to the guest bath wouldnt solve that.
Perhaps you can just let XH be wrong and not feel the same pull to his ingrained training. Let it go. Be free. No need to drag XHs baggage around. Let him be wrong.
Hope you have a wonderful Sunday.
D
Pax - wow, so sorry to hear you are still in the thick of it all.
Some people (and I expect your ex is one) just enjoy fighting for the sake of having confrontation in their lives. Playing armchair psychologist, I suspect he is just not the type who is comfortable with peace and quiet in his life. That said, I am guessing there is nothing you can ever do to make this VERY serious beanie situation (wink, wink) go away. Your best option is to try to negotiate the birdhouse for the beanie, but I am going to bet that when he learns it is not the original he will then make that the issue. I think he just needs a perpetual issue on which to focus.
I think they all create one. Mine had a thing for these air filters that were loud and bulky and old. (I used one when he was running in replay; coming and going at all hours. They blocked out the noise of him returning from his adventures in trying to find himself.) He bought them in the wild fires 10 + years ago. He was absolutely fixated on them and they appeared constantly in negotiations. In the final negotiations he mentioned them again and I gladly gave them to him. Pretty sure they are so old you cant even buy filters for them anymore. They were SO important to him. How important? Afterwards, I went to clear out more of his left behind junk out of the garage and there in a corner was one more of those filters he just could not leave behind. He didnt even know how many of them he had, hah!
If you try bartering and it fails, then my advice is just do whatever *you* want going forward because nothing is going to work for him anyway. It is a cathartic part of letting go or being dragged.
I do think you should muster up energy, strengthen yourself and go to the mats for your fair share. If you have to go to trial because he wont be reasonable and you are paying and taking the time to do that, dont go there to roll over. Let your lawyer fight like a junkyard dog for what you are owed.
Beanie (eye roll) ...
Hiya friends!
Guess what!?! Im officially-officially-officially divorced as of July 2! Never been happier about it.
Date of marriage: 7/2010, separation 6/2015, and divorced 7/2021.
Happy tears are pouring out of my eyeballs right now as I type this. That whole process was the most brutal experience of my life thus far and I know Im going to be working through some things for years, Im sure. Having 6ish years of sustained emotional and financial torture and hyper vigilance doesnt just disappear over night but Im feeling lighter these days and will continue to work through the triggers as they come. Sigh.
As for a life update, the process for freezing my eggs begins tomorrow with the initial labs. Im terrified for the potential outcome and also hopeful that this might give me a fair chance at having a biological child.
The thought of forking out thousands and thousands of dollars for this process and procedure scares the living daylights out of me. I just landed on my feet and no longer live paycheck to paycheck... so Im pretty nervous. Its sickening actually. My insurance covers zero so its all out of pocket. And of course theres no guarantee that it will actually work when the time comes. This is a huge gamble but I really want to have a baby one day and Ive lost so many years of fertility.
Since the start of this whole divorce process I watched my dream of having 3 kids fade to 2, and now Im just praying for one. My ex and I separated when I was 31 and now Im about to be 38. Time is not on my side.
That said, Im not at all opposed to adoption and know that I will have children one day even if not biologically. I know Ill be a good mom.
If all goes well in the next few weeks, Ill share the process on how this all came about... it is quite the story! Haha.
Other than that, things are a-ok. I feel like Im finally living my life again. Im ready to take some risks in my career and am looking for some advancement opportunities. I have a super good man in my life and I like him a lot. My friends are obsessed with him and my family really likes him too. (Far cry from the ex). I have really great and supportive friends and the family is all healthy and doing ok. Things are good in my little bubble. Im very grateful.
Congratulations Pax!!! So darn happy for you!!! Its been a long and difficult road, I know. Feel free to join us over on Surviving Divorce. Were a small but dedicated group.
Re: freezing your eggs and becoming a parent. You never know what is around the corner. When I was 37, I was single and thinking I would never get the chance. But then I met XH and gave birth to twins two months before my 40th birthday. It was a perfect pregnancy with no complications whatsoever. Dont lose hope. It could happen before you know it.
(((HUGS)))
Pax,
I'm thrilled for you. You deserve every moment of happiness. I'm sure that regardless of the challenges you face from here they will pale in the face of what you have survived. I admire your bravery and your pursuit of what you want and am glad you have someone in your life that has given you a different relationship perspective.
Pax - so happy for you! Its been a long time coming. Hard as it all was, you can now build the beautiful life you deserve.
Darling Pax, FINALLY!!!!! I'm so happy for you. Yes, do not discount the very real PTSD that may come up. Knowing you, these episodes will be faced head on and you will come shining through. Remember love, nothing can be as bad as what you've already faced.
Keep us posted on your future adventures! xoxoxoxoxo
Why hello there. This thread should be closing soon and I’m not sure if I’ll start another in the surviving group or just wrap this up there. I’m coming up on my 6 year anniversary on this site so we shall see what shakes out!!
The last couple of weeks have been hard. The Ivf egg cycle didn’t turn out as hoped so I’ll be trying again in a few days. All the extra hormones and side effects have made for a really good time (rolls eyes).
I’m definitely feeling restless and want to change things up in a big way. All these articles coming out on “pandemic flux syndrome” and “languishing” is definitely where I’m at right now. The urge to flip my life around is strong. I have a pretty good job but it’s just too much. I’m in healthcare... and to be honest healthcare s*cks right now. It’s so bad. I’ve dedicated almost 20 years to this industry and I think it’s time for a change. I’ve been actively putting my resume out there.
I’ve also been contemplating going back to school. There’s 3, 3 year paths that I’m considering. I’ve spoken with advisors, have sample schedules and everything. I just need to nail down what I’d like to do for my second career. My current job is piloting an external life coaching program so I’ve just leaned in to see if I can be an end user. I just don’t know the path I want to take.. maybe a coach will help me find clarity just like my DB coach did in the beginning of this journey. I have a vision of what my life would be like in any of those three paths and I think about it often. I just know where I’m at right now is not where I want to be anymore. On paper my job is pretty cool...It’s hard to give it up as I’ve never been a grass is greener type of person..... but now I really think the grass is greener elsewhere.
That’s about it. Things are going ok otherwise. Been doing a long distance thing with a man friend which actually works out well since I relish my independence. Not to mention, he’s just an all around good human and the family digs him too. I even think my dog might like him more than me (rolls eyes again).
The parents have had some health things pop up which is just a reminder that life is soooo darn short and the most important things are spending time with those who are important to you and doing things that spark joy.
Also since this is still an MLC thread, I can share that I feel free of my ex. Took a long time and definitely have some ptsd still and get those triggers..... but I’m free!!!
All my best to you dbers. Until next time.
{{{{{pax}}}}}
come on over to the surviving side. if you don't like it you can split. no harm no foul. I'd miss ya, tho ...
you've been through so much. take some time to decompress. best of luck with the next IVF egg cycle! xoxoxoxo mwah
2022…. The year of pax. I can see it. Things are looking up for me as well. So maybe the year of pinn as well. The year of pinn and pax… what a combo!! We have come a long long way in 6+ years!
Yesterday’s Dictionary.com word of the day was ataraxia... a state of freedom from emotional disturbance and anxiety; tranquility.
I really don’t know if there’s a better feeling in the whole world than ataraxia.
It certainly doesn’t come easy though, right? In 2021, I felt so grateful to finally “get there.” My divorce was final-final in July, I landed on my feet financially which was the cause of so much severe stress the last 6 years.. I was happy, calm and at peace.
I knew I was in a good place and it actually brought fear for the moment(s) where I will be catapulted out of it. I remember specifically telling my boyfriend that I finally have some emotional relief... that I had a fear of experiencing emotional distress in the near future. I remember saying... I just don’t know that I have it in me to have grief any time soon.
Obviously grief is not avoidable... but here we are. My grandfather passed away last week, just shy of his 94th birthday. He certainly had a life well lived and I was always in awe of his value system. Gosh I wish I could be like him. While I’m so very grateful to have had him in my life for as long as i did, he was my buddy and a huge central character for our family. He was the patriarch. And I know him passing will change the landscape of our family.... for many reasons that I wont get into here. But it’s sad. I’m grieving. As death always does, it makes you reflect and examine if you are living in alignment with your values.
Sigh. It’s just sad. We’re all celebrating him the best way we know how. We’re getting through it by reflecting on just how loved and cherished he is and how lucky and blessed we are to have had him in our lives.
Ugh tough time. But this is the space I come to when I need to just let it out. Hugs.
Always love a Pax update!
Yes, ataraxia!! Same month as you. Life in ataraxia grows by leaps and bounds. However, as your grandfather's passing shows, we are always subject to the human condition, half good, half not so good. There is no ideal state of bliss and freedom from pain. The difference here, you can feel the pain of grandfather's passing and the loss of this wonderful man (the clean pain) without all the other stuff (the dirty pain-the negative self-talk, the fear of feelings/fear/guilt/hopelessness/terror). The clean pain can be sat with, visited happily with all the reminders of his life, and from there you can move forward with the good memories.
Feel the pain Pax, celebrate his life, and run fast toward all the joy that lies ahead of you. No need to fear, clear skies ahead, you've survived the worst and you can handle anything that comes your way now.
pax love i'm so sorry about your grandfather's passing. There is much good in Own's post ^^^ especially the last paragraph. xoxoxo
Pax,
I am so sorry to read of the passing of your grandfather. He lived a long life and saw so much change in the way that we live day to day. Treasure the memories that you created and shared with him for they will provide you comfort in the days ahead.
When you have a moment, please start a new thread.
Pax,
My condolences on your grandfather’s passing. I love your expressed memories of him being a life long role model. What a wonderful legacy he crafted.
D