Hi There,
This seems trivial, but I dont know how to proceed. For those that read my story, in May, H did the BD. He then left the country for work for 3 months. When he came back, he did not empty suitcases right away and he has traveled to see OW a few times since. HOWEVER, he has worn clothes and throws them in the hamper. I let them sit there at least a month before I approach and asked him if he wanted his clothes washed. He is putting clothes there again. Now, I do laundry anyway, but I am really annoyed since he does not speak to me. Yet, I do not want an overflowing hamper either. When I went a month, he literally went and bought underwear and socks. This is not cost effective. What would you do?
We have not had any discussion about our R since that day. I pretty much left him alone after the BD then he left the country, so I learned how to live alone.
Thank you
Link to PLC's Thread on Newcomers':
New to the board MLC
It is not trivial in the least. It's the nitty gritty of standing when your MLCer hasn't or won't leave.
Take it from me. I am an expert after seven years of that. Or read HaWho's threads.
You could also title your thread, "LBS Navigates Daily Life With In-House MLCer" (or in Rejoice-Speak, Stander and Prodigal) because these kinds of questions about daily life come up constantly when your MLCer is in house. Mine included cleaning toilets several times a day because my H is addicted to diuretics.
If you ever have the chance to slog through my threads, I wrote about laundry fairly often!
Based on seven years of in-house MLCer and a love of doing laundry and a hatred of hamper piling up and a Christian desire to be kind to my H in whatever way I could, here is my answer --
Do his laundry because you want to, if you want to. If you are a person of faith, do his laundry for God,if you want to do his laundry for God, and then while you do it, thank God for this grace of learning patience and humility and a way to express prayers for your enemy. If you are doing it because you hate an overflowing hamper, do it if you want an empty hamper. If you are doing it because you have no way to be kind to H except that, do it if you want to be kind to him.
DO NOT DO HIS LAUNDRY to affect him or his behavior in any way. It won't affect him or his behavior in any way. Or it might affect him one day and another day not affect him. He might say thank you one day and tell you you shrank his favorite sweater and have to buy him a new one on another day. Most days he won't notice. He'll just use the clean laundry without any thought of how it got there.
You can insert other domestic duties/verbs in here. Including, "empty his 4-5 wine bottles out of the recycling every three days," "raise his children" and "continue to love his mother and send her birthday gifts" and "replace the money he stole out of D8's wallet." As long as you also insert into your brain/heart the second paragraph about whatever you do having no affect on him.
And after seven years of your doing that, and the eighteen years before that when you were a happy family with a good MIL relationship, you may get a letter from MIL telling you she wants nothing to do with you and your "self-made" problems. Whoops -- did you have an expectation of her too?
The love you show is a victory. Not against H or MIL or anyone else. It's a victory in the battle against evil. It's light. As long as you don't do it to get something -- e.g., your H back. Or his gratitude. Or a change in his behavior. And you might learn that kicking him out is the best way to show the real him, the one from before, love, because you realized that the man you once knew will never climb out of MLC if you keep showing the Alien in His Body any wifely love or even the chance to live under your roof. But it might also be that your love does slowly affect him, I have read those stories here too. And sometimes that happened to me in drips and drabs along the way.
Likewise do not ask him to do his laundry or anything else, at least not with an expectation that he'll do it. You could tell him you can't do it anymore, but see paragraph above on expectations if you do.
Again, do it because you want to, and not because you expect any outcome.
If you take all the clothes and dump them in the basement without cleaning then,or in his car, or at the OW's house or if you take the clothes to a mudpit where pigs are living and pooping, stomp on the clothes for a while, put the now-pig-penned clothes in a shopping cart, break into his office at night and leave the clothes there so that the whole office will stink by the morning, you may get no response, a spew, a call from a lawyer or an apology and a request to be your H again. Or all of the above. (I didn't do any of those things but I am just imagining.)
This is MLC, my friend. Choose who you want to be, and how you want to be it. And forgive yourself for everything everything everything that happens after that.
BTW, we have a current poster who has a happy ending recently...Westo. She worked very hard and that hard work paid off. You may want to read her threads.
HaWho had a man/child living in his little "dorm room" in the basement for quite some time, but he's now off in the cold, cruel world and still making life just a little tad nutty for HaWho, Unfortunately, this relation went south, but HaWho did the hard, necessary work on herself and for her children and she's one of our brightest stars in surviving and making a new life for herself.
Try to remember that success stories don't necessarily mean marriages/relationships survive. Success stories are also about the posters learning and growing and rediscovering themselves along the way and coming out the other side of the crisis far, far better than when they were in the eye of the crisis.
Speaking of success stories, Gordie went through h@ll and back for his W and last we heard they were doing fairly well. His threads are on the MLC board I believe.
Thank you all that chimed in. I definitely need to seek out success threads. I still have hope and I know that is important.
As for the laundry, it will calm me down anxiety wise to not have a pile of unwashed work clothes in the hamper. This is for me. If he wants laundry done on a different time table, we will deal with that then. I do feel like I am living with a sulky fifteen year old boy. (Don’t mean to offend and 15yo boys) but right now he is sitting in the dark living room on his “bed couch”. I am going to go do fun things with my day. Whatever he is dealing with-be the OW is not going well or the holidays are creeping up, he prefers to be in his “little black hole” I know I can’t do anything-so I do something for me! I will post on some of the other threads after I get a chance to read. This forum is a god-send!
OMG! may22 and I were just talking about laundry in the Newcomers forum. I'm glad I'm not alone lol!!!!
Gerda- I appreciate your response, it was very helpful to me as well.
PLC - I've decided to keep doing my H's laundry for the time-being. my H hasn't completely moved out but pretty much does not live here anymore, but he still throws stuff in the hamper. He will help me fold though if he happens to be here when I'm folding clothes. Like Gerda said, I have no expectations nor resentment in doing his laundry. That's funny, I think if I really do stop doing his laundry he might really just go out and get new clothes.
Woosa-This is interesting, who would have thought laundry would be such a commonality? Glad I have a friend dealing with this same issue.
He’s abusing you and you are doing his laundry?
I do not understand why we encourage people to be masochists here. I do not know why we perpetuate abuse. Cheating is abuse. It will destroy you. He’s a cancer that you are not getting rid of. In fact, I know tons of people that are in these relationships that end up with cancer. I got diagnosed with it when I was pregnant and I see a connection between our health and the relationships we choose to be in.
Adult love is not unconditional. Stop letting him cake eat and kick him out. If he has to live with you for legal reasons, put his laundry in the garage.
You alone cannot save a marriage or create a partnership. It takes two invested people for it to work. It gets to the point where you have to learn to love yourself more and say no to disrespectful treatment. Loving yourself and not allowing someone to hurt and abuse you is more godly then continually allowing someone to disrespect you and your marriage in the name of religion. You deserve better. And there is better out there.
You can’t control him or his actions. Doing his laundry isn’t gonna make him realize what a wonderful person he’s giving up. Neither is being some light house “shining the way for him to return”.
What you can control is how you live your life. Living for you, and your health and learning when to let go. You have the choice to say “this isn’t good or healthy for me”.
Job- there aren’t many success stories on here. Most of our exes were abusers. Mine was an addict. I see more posters that contracted serious stds then that revived their marriages. My ex was a secret addict. Would have destroyed me even more financially had I saved our marriage. Or god knows what I could have contracted. And then there are the people that revive their marriages only to be back on here older because their spouse did it again. (Oops). And the walking on egg shells that goes with it isn’t right. It really isn’t. I have seen a lot of walking on eggshells shells from the posters that’s husbands come back. It’s heart breaking. I read the same posts.
I think the real test in all this is learning how to stand up for ourselves and earn back dignity and respect.
PLC et al -- I think the purpose of this forum is to support those who choose to stand and to support those who choose to stop standing. The site is called, "Divorcebusting," not "Faith/Hopebusting." There were many times I came to this board looking for ways to keep standing and got a really harsh message. All that those messages did was to scare me away for months and make me lonelier. Even now I am sometimes "walk on eggshells" when I post to avoid getting messages like that!
Loving yourself and not allowing someone to hurt and abuse you is more godly then continually allowing someone to disrespect you and your marriage in the name of religion. ...
I think the real test in all this is learning how to stand up for ourselves and earn back dignity and respect.
Juju, I would never try to convince you to believe in God, and likewise I don't think you should use God in an argument against what our faith teaches us. In fact that God that I believe in allowed everyone to disrespect him and in fact to kill him out of love for me -- and even for you or anyone else who doesn't believe that. We can walk in dignity and love through the darkest of struggles. God is present with us, helping us walk, during all the other horrible things we humans do to each other -- wars, disease, poverty, abuse, addiction. If you are not a person of faith, there is no way you are going to understand that. But standing in humility for a broken marriage, if done out of faith, is an act of great love, even if it doesn't "work." Some of us are not doing it to get our spouse back. We are doing it to grow in faith and get closer to God.
You can read many testimonies of marriages restored out of abuse, addiction, etc., on faith-based sites, and you can find them here as well. You can read stories of marriages that were never restored but of a spouse who grew into joy, with or without a new partner. You can find stories with the ending we don't wish for and an LBS who is bitter or an LBS who is joyful. I don't plan to remarry but I see my stand as what I do for my children, even if I begin to doubt my husband could ever be healed. Saying that we should not stand because so many marriages don't make it out of MLC is like saying we should never get married because so many marriages end in divorce.
I wish I had made stronger boundaries a lot earlier in my stand but I had to get to that place via experience. And it could have gone either way; I know many people who have restored marriages out of dead, awful, impossible circumstances. I think the point of this forum is to help each person find his/her own path out of the destruction of MLC, and we have to tread lightly when we come from different foundations of belief.
As I mentioned, it causes anxiety to let the laundry sit there. I don’t have a garage to throw it in. I will do it on my timetable, maybe once a month or so. This is for me. I don’t put it away. Just wash and dry. He can put it away. I don’t expect anything from him. At this point, the marriage we had is over. I still have hope and am standing. That does not mean that if I do laundry a light will go off and he will realize I am what he needs. I feel I have been living on my own and I am enjoying things while he sulks in the dark. He’s not asking me for anything, doesn’t eat what I cook and basically is a boarder in our home that takes a shower and sleeps in.
My thoughts may change, this is seven months in, not seven years. I understand what you are saying, this is not eating at me. It is hurtful, but I am not letting that define me. As this progresses I will continue to learn.
PLC,
You are the only one that decide whether you want to do the laundry or not. If you are content doing it, then do it, but if you aren't, then don't.
The beauty of the forums is that we all have opinions/comments on how to do things. However, it is up to each poster to determine what to do in their on situation. If something works, continue to do it, if something doesn't work, then cease doing it and try something else.
and also
you can change or shift your mind at any time
Sometimes it ok to keep the peace for a time or when children are involved and to create the most effective environment for the moment
even if its leading to separation and D
This MLC journey is tough...trust yourself and seek therapy to deal with your fears/feelings
This usually takes the LBS quite a while to really fully detach and let go---
Sometimes we need more time to miniter the situation, to come out of denial, to process the shock of it all-
Go easy on you
Its scary to lose someone we love so much and was hard for me to let go of the idea of being M and having my children's father available to them
There are no right or wrong...most of us learn as we go
we can learn from each other but Job is right...only we can decide when/if its time to pull the plug or stand
PLC, you sound great. You are way clearer-headed than I was at 7 months!
Thanks everyone. There are times when I wonder what I am doing as his behavior really bothers me. I mean, this was someone I’ve known for almost 30 years. How could he be so different? But then, I remind myself, this journey now can end if I decide to end it, and I remind myself that there is nothing I can say or do to stop his journey. I do have a relationship with the Lord, and we married “in sickness and in health” I am choosing to deal with this as a sickness. If H has some event(s) in his past that has brought him to this situation, who am I to tell him to snap out of it? He has to figure this out on his own.
That being said, I am trying to live for me, keep the house in order (for me) and GAL. With our D24 older, I can do what I want pretty much since she does not live in the home. I do appreciate encouragement, and I am remaining hopeful and steadfast.
Hi, PLC—my MLC H BD in June, so you’re just ahead of me, and I think only on the best moments of my best days I feel as clear-headed as you sound. I just posted on the newcomers forum, and it’s funny to come here and read your question about laundry. I’ve always done our laundry and continued to do his after BD, trying to show love through the smallest actions. Occasionally he’d say, You know you don’t have to do my laundry, and I’d say, I know. After he initiated an R talk pre-Thanksgiving and told me he was planning on filing soon, he started keeping his dirty clothes on the floor of the “his” room, and just now bought a pop-up hamper so his clothes aren’t scattered everywhere all the time. Feels like a kind of passive aggressive power move—you will no longer touch my clothes! Ha. Ironically, this means he has to be around the house long enough to do his own laundry, when I’m sure he’d rather be out with his new friends.
When he left to go out of the country, our D24 came for a scheduled visit right after. Once she left, I cleaned the linens and vacuumed her room. That was end of May. He came back from being abroad at the beginning of August. He began sleeping in her room, And I never washed the sheets. So for almost four months he slept on gross, dirty sheets. He never asked me to wash and if he did, I would have told him no. Laundry for his clothes, was more for me because of the anxiety. I can shut her bedroom door. Once she was coming home, I announced she’d be home as he tried to leave for work last week, and once I got up I changed the bedding for her to use that night.
This behavior of not caring about clothes or sheets my T attributes to being in the mind of a teen. They are I. Their own fog and really don’t notice surroundings. I can totally agree, as he used to be very particular about how the how looked.
Hi all,
Well after almost 15 months of limbo, he has reiterated that he no longer wants to be married, I responded, "I know, you have told me that before" he replied, yes, I want a divorce.
I have so many feelings, friends. One is a little relief, if I am being honest. He told me that he does not want to be enemies, he wants me to stay in the house, he wants to pay off all of the bills, sell his racing eqt including his car and buy a condo. He does not know where he will go. He said he would keep paying for my insurance. He asked how much I need to live here.
I know 'believe half of what they say' I am not figuring that he really understands the costs. I suggested after 30 years, I would like him to consider MC, he at first said no, but then when i brought it up again, I said, if we went a few times, then I would know we have tried everything and then I would be ok getting a divorce.
I asked if he went to Mexico this weekend and he confirmed he did with his friend. SURE
I asked if there was someone else and he said no. HA!
I really think he is in the middle of MLC and I want to stand! I even suggested living as roommates, that it would be cheaper to add on a bathroom and bedroom and he could live here a separately but we would stay married.
I know I probably said things that were not DB, but I did remain calm. I did not cry, although now I am tearing up.
THis is a lot to take in even though I know more than I think he does. I do have time on my side a little, because we have a huge tax obligation, that needs to be cleared up first.
Does anyone have any comments/criticisms? I asked what about our 25 D and he said he called and told her yesterday and her comment was "whatever makes you happy" I told him, well what makes you happy does not make me happy.
There was more said, but that is the gist of it.
Signed, a sad PLC
my advice is to proceed with divorce when he's feeling generous, confused, and full of guilt. I understand you want to keep standing. but what it comes down to is that divorce is a business decision. it does not mean there is no chance of reconciliation down the road. my H has said multiple times that he wants a D since last year. If we had signed a d agreement then, it would certainly be more advantageous for me financially. just something for you to think about!
Hi Wooba,
I understand what you are saying. I think he is very naive about money, since I have always paid the bills. I know that on my list this week is meeting some attorneys so I can see where I stand. But I also think he is being kind, because he is “escaping” to something he thinks is better.
This whole 15 months I was encouraged because his BD was “I don’t want to be married anymore” he never said divorce. He also, keep saying he knows we have bills that need to be taken care of first.
It was like he was telling me, that although this is taking a while “I want a divorce eventually” I don’t want to get less than what I deserve and what he is offering, but if I put his money where his mouth is, wouldn’t that be going towards a divorce?
This has really upset me. I guess I thought I could DB and things would work.
On the plus side, I am going to tell him that he can move into the living room as D25 is coming home from being gone two years at grad school and she needs her bedroom. Now the weirdness that we lived with while she was home at the beginning of the lockdown has been addressed and it won’t be an unspoken mystery.
I really feel strange. Just this weekend I was thinking about redoing and getting new furniture for our bedroom and remodeling the bathroom and kitchen. I dont have any money, but I was dreaming. Was I sending out some energy that I wanted a divorce? I know that sounds dumb, but I am bewildered.
Sorry for the tangent, I am just so sad. No one except my counselor knows (and now our daughter) but I don’t want to talk to anyone.
PLC
I know I’ve read, this and I know the answer. But tonight, I need to see it again:
Even if a spouse tells the other spouse they want a divorce and are not happy, there still is hope the LBS can turn it around.
I need to see read this tonight. I am gearing up for a harder fight.
(((PLC))) I know this is hard. It’s not what you want and not what you were hoping for. From what I’ve learned here, the best way to fight against divorce is to not fight against it. D or not, you can decide to stand for your marriage. That is your decision, and D doesn’t have to change that. If your H has made up his mind, especially if he’s lost in MLC, he won’t be able to see clearly anything outside of his own head. He will resist any form of reasoning and he is not in a logical place right now. Read the end of my last thread—I very much regret trying to talk to my H as if he was a rational person, and I wasn’t trying to sway him from D, just have some closure on our M. I do believe everyone here is right: attempts like this are pointless, because these spouses can’t see clearly, and they can’t see you right now. To them, you are a reflection of their internal pain, and what they think they need to do is run from the pain.
You fight by accepting that H will make his own decisions, even if you don’t agree with them. How many times have I read, if you love your S, let them go? It was easy to understand this intellectually and so hard to feel this fully! You want them to be in an R with you because they choose it, not because they feel compelled to. You deserve a partner who will be there in good times and bad, just like the vows say! You deserve respect and love, and this H right now is unable to be that person. That doesn’t mean he can’t go on his journey and grow and be that person, but for now, you have to let him find his own way. By focusing on yourself and your happiness, which is the most important thing right now. By focusing on your children.
I needed to hear this again and again: letting him go and accepting that might mean D for now does not mean you have to give up hope for future R. It doesn’t mean your future has been written. But I think the more you can give up expectations that you can do anything to turn this around in the short term, the less you will hurt. It’s not on you to fix him, because you didn’t break him.
One moment at a time. Love yourself. Have compassion for how you are feeling. It is so hard. Maybe you can’t remodel the bathroom right now, but you can still dream about what you’d like to do in the future, H or no. What else could you do today or this week for yourself?
PLC,
I have merged your two threads that appear on the MLC Forum. Your original thread had not reached the limit of 100 postings/replies. I do want to point out that you can change your subject line at any time within a thread.
Thank you JOB, I did not realize that the second threads needed to be 100 as well.
Thank you Cardinal, I did not sleep well last night. I tossed and turned replaying the conversation over and over. This morning is a new day. I need to take care of me. I called and met with a DB coach, I called and scheduled a consult with an attorney.
I need to see where I stand. I need to know what I could have and not have monetarily if a D happens.
Encouraged by the fact that the DB coach asked where he was going to go and I told her that he wasnt leaving anytime soon, he just "wants me to know". I am not going to assume that this is the end, nor am I going to assume it isn't. But I need to protect me.
Our child is 25, so there is some different things there as she is not a minor. it makes it a little different. I am really hurt that he chose to tell her before me. Like he needed to tell her so he would not fail to tell me.
Anyway, DB coach recommended if I am choosing to not share this information with any friends or family I need to be more active here so I have some positivity. So get ready.
Thank you for the hug. It is appreciated.
Well an update-journaling
I spoke with an attorney and have given a sketch of our finances and situation to see where I could stand in the event of a D. I am not filing, but I am the type of person who needs to have something to hold on to.
As I mentioned, I met and had a session with a DB coach. I only can afford three sessions, but I did get some good advice. I will speak with her in a couple of weeks, since he is going to go out of town this weekend (I’m sure to go to whoever he is with now) and when he returns, he is taking his vacation with his dad and uncle,
I also spoke to my counselor and I told her I was disappointed in our session. She really is wanting me to prepare that now since he has said it twice he means it. I know he believes that is true. I think that he has OW somewhere and this is a new relationship and he is “in love” . I realize all I can do is protect myself and GAL. I just want him in my life as my partner. I understand that we have to go through this to get to the other side (whatever that will be).
Does anyone have any help to get through the crippling fear? I am just a tidal wave of emotions, realizing that he believes being out of our marriage will make him happy. Like he will eventually leave and never return. He won’t have a key. He won’t wonder about me. I will be in the rear view mirror as he drives off to his happiness. If our daughter gets married I would possibly see him with someone else who he is happy with.
I am so sad. I can’t stop crying. I hate this feeling.
Well an update-journaling
I spoke with an attorney and have given a sketch of our finances and situation to see where I could stand in the event of a D. I am not filing, but I am the type of person who needs to have something to hold on to.
You are wise to find out this info now.
I just want him in my life as my partner.
I understand. We can want something desperately and still not get it. To that end, yes, we have to focus on GAL.
Does anyone have any help to get through the crippling fear? I am just a tidal wave of emotions, realizing that he believes being out of our marriage will make him happy. Like he will eventually leave and never return. He won’t have a key. He won’t wonder about me. I will be in the rear view mirror as he drives off to his happiness. If our daughter gets married I would possibly see him with someone else who he is happy with.
I am so sad. I can’t stop crying. I hate this feeling.
I can tell you what I did. It didn't stop the fear, but I somehow got through it.
1. I had to force myself to keep it in the day, sometimes the hour, sometimes the moment. That was the most helpful practice. Look at your feet. Where are you? Look around the room. Is he there? Then focus only on what is there.
This takes a lot of practice but it's worthwhile.
2. The LBS is on their own journey. Think about what YOU want. Yes, I know you want him as your partner. Think more specifically - what type of life do you want to live? What are your core values? How do you want to be treated in a relationship. What is important to you?
3. what physical activity can you do to get the stress out of your body? Swimming, yoga, walking, something else?
4. Do not plan more than a week out.
5. Give yourself permission to freak out for a certain amount of time each day. Stick to that. Maybe an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening.
6. Focus on breathing.
7. meditate
8. pray
That worked for me. Hope it helps
I'm sorry you're here and in this situation. It's dreadful.
1) Get yourself something to focus on besides the marriage. When my ex first cheated and I was DBing him, I started training to climb Mt Whitney. Years later, when he left (after initially reconciling and having several good years) I bought a drumkit and learned to play the drums at 52. Shifting the focus away from what's going on for a while is very healing.
2) Realize you cannot control his actions. All you have power over is yourself. You do not have the power to save him from making bad decisions for himself. But I can guarantee you one thing - he is MUCH more likely to come back to you if you are living an interesting, exciting life than if you are balled up in a corner crying.
3) Protect yourself financially. A lawyer can give you good advice on what you can expect and how to make sure you are financially protected. Don't confuse the business part with the emotional part. Even if you divorce him to protect yourself financially, it's always possible to get remarried if he comes to his senses.
4) This is a unique opportunity to spread your wings. What have you always wanted to do that you haven't pursued, because he might have thought it trivial, or crazy, or he took up too much of your time to pursue it? If you were writing a book about a plucky heroine reinventing herself and finding happiness after a divorce, what would she be doing? Do that! Do you want a new haircut or color? Do it! Change your wardrobe. Pursue your bliss.
Believe me, there is life after a divorce even from a long term marriage.
Kml, bttrfly,
Thank you. One thing, he will not see or hear me cry.
I am going to take what both of you offered and go with it. Today, right now, I am home on lunch. I look around and I see our dogs, the tv (on home improvements) and my backyard. I am here in this moment. It is like every other day. He is not usually home at lunch. This is my time.
I really need to think about what I want to do. One thing, our gyms are closed here so I ordered a peloton. It will be something I own and I won’t need to pay for a gym once we are able to return. I am very excited about that. Another thing, I really want to paint our (now mine) bedroom. I need to start making a list of things I would like to do around here, even if they are super out of price, just to plan it as a dream. As for other hobbies, I am such a homebody and this Covid has not helped. I normally like to go to baseball games with friends, concerts movies, etc. being in So Cal there is so much to do, and we can’t. I have been ready doing puzzles and catching up onntv shows on the weekends.
I really believe that this new action from him is fueled by a new OW. But it doesn’t matter, because when it fizzles out, I need to be in the throws of a huge GAL. Being my best self.
I feel better ever typing this.
I am still sad, but now is not going to be my designated sad time.
Hugs to both of you,
PLC
.
PLC, you’re doing great! I think painting your bedroom is a wonderful idea. It will give you a change of scenery and can really help shift your mood. Can you go get some paint swatches and put them up on your wall? There are also some helpful guided meditations at the UC San Diego Center for Mindfulness if you want to practice being in the present moment—you can google it.
Thanks Cardinal!
I will look up the meditations. As for the paint swatches, I will get some color samples. I also can finally get a padded headboard. When we changed from a queen to a king, we lost our bed and never got a headboard because he doesn’t like the padded ones.
If it’s my sanctuary, I am going to make it mine.
Have a great day!
I just saw an ad today for Benjamin Moore paint having self stick paint samples - like a foot square peel and stick sample to put on the wall - so much easier than painting different samples on a wall!
Yes, get your padded headboard. Make the room your sanctuary. Paint it a color you love. Play music you love. Organize the closets your way. Put his things in the guest bedroom closet. Or the front hall closet. Burn some sage!
Since the pandemic is limiting your social options, start a regular Zoom cocktail party with some girlfriends, or coffee klatch. If you don't have enough girlfriends, start one on Meetup and make some new friends! Join in from your new sanctuary bedroom with the door closed so he can wonder who you are laughing with in your bedroom!
Buy some sexy lingerie and leave it drying in the bathroom or somewhere where he will see it.
Make a vision board - a poster board with pictures of things you want in your future life. Put it somewhere in your room where you will see it every day.
Are you employed? If not, do you need to brush up your skills to get a good job? Now's the time to tackle that, even if people aren't hiring. If you are employed but make a lot less than your H, start thinking about what it would take to enhance your income after a divorce.
Thank you KML,
A vision board sounds like a good idea.
I also will look into the paints. As for a job, I have started fixing my resume during this time and then lockdown hit. I will finish getting it ready and start looking. Even if a divorce doesn’t happen, this would not hurt having more income.
He just came home, saw me and said hi. The one thing I see different from when he first came home after being in another country for work for over three months, is that he acknowledges the pets. He didn’t before. Maybe he has realized hat they are not the root of his happiness or unhappiness.
This is where I get sad, because maybe he truly is not mlc and just doesn’t want to be married to me anymore. I am sure others have felt his way. Is there any success stories with deep mlc? Or does the LBS just move on?
PLC
check out grey timber wolf by ben Moore also cloud white trim its soft and luminescent gorgeous combo
Hello PLC
Good for you seeking legal counsel. It is wise to learn your rights. Learn the likely outcome and the best and worse case scenarios as well. None of this means you have to take action, all you are doing is gathering information. Oh, and do not tell H about this.
My advice regarding divorce - Let H do the heavy lifting. Unless you need financial protection or security, do not push for a D. Let H own that. You just need to be ready, for if he does go for D, or changes and your financial situation worsens.
Does anyone have any help to get through the crippling fear?
I believe so.
FearI’ll pop in and we can discuss further.
Seek how to rationalize, to uncouple the irrational fear response from the possible future event. Fear is always about something that hasn’t yet, or may not ever, happen. Fear is about the future. One doesn’t fear the past or present. The first step is recognizing your fear, and that requires knowing where, and when, to look for it.
Stay strong
D
Dnj,
I used the reading of FEAR as my cry time.
I need to reread and understand. Tonight , while texting my therapist, I asked if she thought would divorce and she said it is pretty evident that is what he wants since he has “reminded” me fifteen months later that he still does not want to be married, yet divorce was only mentioned on Monday. Her telling me that it seems evident about what he wants was crushing. She even said he seems hellbent on blowing up his life before he sees what he has, and she wanted me to “move on” I understand in DB terms, to be drop the rope. She knows I am standing for the marriage and she does not want me to file or help him along the way out of the marriage, she wants me to help me. This gives me fear-I made a list and surprisingly this helped. Here are my fears off the top of my head:
1 We will divorce
2 he will remarry
3 he will be happy and realize it WAS me that made him unhappy and it isnt MLC
4 we will not grow old together
5 we will have to move
6 I will be alone and die alone because he left me
7 I will not have someone love me like a husband should
8 people will pity me
9 he will have a great time without me
10 I will never drop the rope
11 he will eventually lie more and not let me keep all he said I could
I have plenty of other fears, but I will say living in CA earthquakes have always been a large fear and last year I was alone for two big ones. I lived. Do they still frighten me? Yes, will I live, more than likely.
Dnj, you seem to have a lot of wisdom for this board, thank you for sharing it.
PLC
Hi Cardinal,
I mentioned the UCSD mindfulness to my therapist and she said the UCLA has an app, “UCLA MINDFUL” That is free and offers meditation as well. Just thought I’d throw it out there.
PLC
PLC -
1) Your H is leaving because he has a hole inside that he is trying to fill. But wherever he goes, there he is. He can’t solve his problems by trying to outrun them. You are not the cause if his unhappiness - you were together for 30 years, clearly he wasn’t unhappy with you all that time.
My ex and I were together 26 years. He always had problems with dissatisfaction with life, always looking for the next adventure, the next high. Infatuation alleviates that pain - temporarily. I figure I got more good years out of my marriage than most people do, and he probably wouldn’t have made it 26 years with someone else.
He’s remarried now to a cute Asian American chick who is 19 years younger than him. He owns a duplex a block from his favorite surf break. Looks like he has everything. BUT - after 9 years together, I imagine her little girl act may be wearing thin when he was used to being married to a strong intellectual equal. And his dream life hasn’t gone as planned. After a couple years of hanging out with her 30-something friends, life went sideways. Her mom died triggering a depression. Her father they discovered had dementia and they moved him to their place, then he needed major surgery, then they moved him to her brothers because he was wandering the neighborhood. Meanwhile my ex’s father was diagnosed with lung cancer and he was flying back and forth across the country to attend to that, his mother’s husband died and his mom was diagnosed with Parkinson’s. Then this year ex was taking his early retirement - at his job, you take the early retirement then work per diem 2-3 days a week for the same total income as you made working full time. Except - he developed back pain requiring surgery, which resulted in terrible nerve pain unfixed by a second surgery, and he hasn’t been able to work at all (or surf, which was always his antidepressant). That perfect looking post divorce life hasn’t been all it seemed.
Meanwhile, in that same time, I learned to play the drums in a pop punk cover band for several years. I also began playing vibraphone and have toured several times with a professional singer songwriter who is my best friend. I’ve met many famous musicians and even played as part of a concert in Central Park in NYC.
My dating life has been - well - a bit of an adventure, but EVERY man I have dated since my divorce appreciated me better than my ex did. (The sex has also been quite fantastic
I’m still friends with most of them.
I’ve traveled extensively since my divorce with my mom (now passed) and my sister. London, Paris, Rome, Ireland, Scotland, East Coast, Canada. (We save up and get great deals). I expect to travel again with my sister after the pandemic.
Life hasn’t been all rosy. My ex has left me to deal with our adult children, who all have issues and 2 of the 3 live with n me. But their relationships with me are close, while their fathers relationships with them are troubled due only to his actions since the divorce.
My income is much less than my ex’s but because I’m better at handling my money, I’m the one who can help our kids while he always cries poor. (His income before retirement, between him and his wife, was probably close to 400k a year after he paid me alimony. Don’t ask me what he spent it all on!)
I live within my means, have close relationships with friends and family, have had fantastic adventures, have a steady boyfriend who thinks I am the bees knees.
What I’m saying is - there IS life after divorce if you go after it. Divorce made me kind of fearless - I mean, after losing that person you thought you were going to be with forever, nothing else seemed that bad. Boyfriend breakup? Hey, it was only a year, not 26 years, and fun while it lasted. Get on stage and risk making a fool of myself on the drums? Who cares! I’m a middle aged woman, Gutsy enough to play the drums, I’ve already won!
My divorce wasn’t about me - I was a kind, loving, accommodating, funny, sexy spouse. It was about his depression and fear of missing out and fear of aging, and his inability to be satisfied even with a great life. All he could see was my imperfections and the fact that somebody else had even MORE than what we had. (And we had a lot!)
You are not inferior - if you were, he wouldn’t have stayed with you for 30 years. Use this opportunity to grow and become your best self, free if any judgment from him.
(Also, for a laugh, watch She-Devil with Roseanne Barr.)
Good Morning PLC
kml is spot on. The MLCer’s journey is about them, not you.
Tonight , while texting my therapist, I asked if she thought would divorce and she said it is pretty evident that is what he wants since he has “reminded” me fifteen months later that he still does not want to be married, yet divorce was only mentioned on Monday. Her telling me that it seems evident about what he wants was crushing. She even said he seems hellbent on blowing up his life before he sees what he has, and she wanted me to “move on” I understand in DB terms, to be drop the rope.
Yes, your H is h@llbent in blowing up his life. He is emotionally driven by unrealized past trauma(s) from when he was young; long before he met you. He doesn’t know or understand these trauma. He has buried them long ago, and denied them. Emotions buried will come back to haunt.
His emotions are cranked to 11. Basically everything he does is emotionally based. There is a profound sadness and depression within him, which he cannot explain, nor accept. So he lashes out. Projects upon you, his spouse, the closest person to him. Blames you.
He cannot blame himself. He is completely driven to this behaviour. He is in crisis; pushed over the edge. So you, and his life, must be the cause he will incorrectly concluded. When you are driven or allow your emotions to rule - irrational behaviours and decision will result. He will display confusion, poor judgement, bad behaviour, and will revert, time travel back to the emotional time of the trauma. He needs to emotionally grow from that hurt little boy.
Destruction seems like the only way out for him. He is desperate and desperate people do desperate things.
You cannot stop this runaway train - it is going to wreck. The choice you have is to remain and crash with it or wisely step aside and live your life.
H reminding you, 15 months later, that he wants a divorce, is not to be taken at face value. IMHO, your IC is misreading that one. A MLCer is a different type of irrational and crisis. Time looses meaning for them it seems. H’s reminder is actually a reminder for him, not you. Don’t believe anything they say, and only half of what they do.
H is driven by emotions. On Monday, H felt like divorce was the answer. The next day that could/would change. The next day it will change again. Probably changes far quicker than daily if you could see his mind.
He will bait you, try to goad you into doing or saying something. Anything he can use as justification to further his false narrative and blame of you. Don’t take the bait. Let him be.
Drop the rope and get a life. H is blaming you. Step back and let him be. In time, he hopefully will realize that “PLC hasn’t done anything to me for a while and yet I am still unhappy”. Then he might look inward. Until then, it’s all running behaviour; blame everything and everyone, and divert his attention elsewhere so he doesn’t peer inside himself. He is just not ready for that, yet.
Your IC’s urging you to “move on” comes from a caring position. “Move forward” better captures the path you wish to travel.
3 he will be happy and realize it WAS me that made him unhappy and it isnt MLC
Fear is irrational. It is hard to see the tangled feedback to our emotional responses.
Rationalizing uncouples your responses from the possible future event.
H is in MLC. His path is not about you.
H will never be happy until he quells the demons inside him.
I like seeing your list. I will speak more to it. For now, I need to get to work.
D
Thank you kml and dnj,
I just popped in for a quick look before I need to leave for work.
Last evening I couldn’t bear to be at home, so he happened to be in the shower and I just left and was gone two hours taking a drive. No destination, just a drive. When I returned he was closed up in the bedroom. This morning, he left for work, and just came home and actually said hi to me. That was unusual as I usually have to see him for him to say anything. Maybe he wondered.
Anyway, I just wanted to say, the difference from first BD to this one on Monday, is that the first time, he really did not speak to me or acknowledge the pets. This time, he has returned to his recent behavior, being cordial no anger. It is a confidence. Or at least, that is what I see. That is what scares me. He thinks he is getting a divorce. I feel that once we address the tax debts and paying bills, he will file,
Anyhow, I have to go to work. I’ll be back....PLC
I haven’t cried today.
Tomorrow I will have a phone consult with the attorney I provided numbers to.
At lunch, I came home and H was closed up in the room, for some reason, I like that better, to me if means he’s in his fantasy. When he is active and around, I feel his confidence and that scares me. So anyway, I came in, made lunch and sat down. I did not call out to him. About halfway through, he opened the bedroom door and was going to leave, and said “ I’ll be back” and left. I didn’t respond.
It’s interesting how this goes. He may be nice, because he feels guilty about what he is doing to me. He did say he didn’t want to be “enemies”.
Idk. Anyway, no tears, I’m glad.
During he second BD (Monday) I asked if he was “traveling for work” soon and he said Friday and would be back Weds, then leave for ten days or so for his vacation,
Friends, I know he is taking a trip to see OW or if there isn’t OW, he’s looking for her.
Anyway, we share a bathroom off my bedroom and this morning he came in to take a shower. It was early. I woke up about an hour ago, and he took the suitcase and carryon bag. It’s fine, he told me he was leaving on Monday, but he always tells me when he will be gone as he leaves. This time he didn’t. I don’t know if I should text and ask him if he is out until Weds like he told me, or if I should just let it go.
Can someone let me know what they think? Part of me feels like I say nothing, but another part wants him to acknowledge he’s gone. I would always be upbeat and tell him to be safe or have fun, but I wouldn’t do that, I would just say ok.
The last time he took off without saying anything was two weeks ago, I noticed the carry on was gone. And later in the day he texted and told me he was looking at a job and would be home Weds. that week. I discovered he took sick time during that jaunt. Then this last weekend he admitted during BD he went to Mexico for a “little getaway”. So this seems like a new romance as he was definitely more “around” before this happened.
I did not speak with him except hi when ne said it yesterday morning.
I’m all over the place, I’m sorry. I know there really is not ANYTHING I can do, but I do not want to do anything wrong. Do I text him and ask? Do I wait and see?
Ugh
PLC
Good Morning PLC
It’s ok to be all over the place; this is a mixed up time for the LBS as they find their path. (((Hugs)))
I know there really is not ANYTHING I can do, but I do not want to do anything wrong. Do I text him and ask? Do I wait and see?
Realize doing nothing is actually doing something.
Therefore the assertion that there is not anything you can do is inaccurate. You make a choice to leave this alone and not grab the rope. It is doing something. It is you controlling you and taking your power back.
My advice, do not text or otherwise inquire as to his whereabouts or plans. He told you on Monday what he felt like telling you. It does you no good to chase after him.
Do see things not as right or wrong. Everyone and every situation is different. And right and wrong do tend to blur. You do what is “right” for you. Focus on you, the most important person in this!
Also, do not “wait and see”. Live your life. Stand and move forward.
What hobbies are you into? Movies, puzzles, walks, gym, baking? Your time is your’s.
You’ve got the gift of time, use it well and use it wisely.
D
Thanks DNJ,
I am not going to contact him.
I did speak with an attorney who looked at our monies and we are house rich and cash poor. He of course tried to convince me that selling the house would be beneficial to me, because I could have a “little condo” and money in the bank. I cannot lose my husband, relationship AND the house. I’m just devastated that this too, could be slipping from my grasp.
I have a worksheet to go back the last 12 months for all of our expenses to see what exactly I need to live on. With H being gone, I will work on that. The attorney echoed what so many here have said, that to get them to put in writing what they want to do while the guilt is fresh. I’m torn because, I feel if I do, I am conceding to a divorce. If I don’t and we still divorce later, my money options could be a lot less.
We owe less on this house than a nice condo and our mortgage payment is the equivalent of a studio apt. So to lose that would be very drastic.
Hobbies? I am in the puzzle game right now with Covid being rampant. Since I will be alone until Weds, I will figure out fun meals to cook for me, shows to watch and books to read.
I was so proud I didn’t cry yesterday and now I just feel hopeless.
PLC
Things to consider with the house:
(You don’t have to sell it until the last thing in the divorce, if you do end up selling it. )
Positives of keeping the house:
Your memories are there
You like the neighborhood
You could rent a bedroom out for extra income
You’re in California so if you kept the house you’d keep your low property tax (I’m assuming you bought your house for considerably less than what it would cost today. )
Negatives of keeping the house:
You’re in a community property state so you have to buy him out of his half of the equity. Can you actually afford the payments if you do that? Can you qualify for a new mortgage to cover that? Also you were married 30 years and your payments are low so I’m assuming the house is older - will you have the money it takes to keep up the house? (Right now my house needs a new dishwasher, new fences, replacement of two wooden awnings, some window repair, outside paint, ...... you get the picture).
Property values are high right now so if you trade something for his share of the house equity - say, giving up your claim to his pension - you face the risk of the house depreciating in value in the looming financial crisis. Even bigger is the risk that you might get in a financial jam in the next couple years and have to sell it in a down market and lose some of that equity.
Examples:
Scenario 1) imagine there’s $600k in housing equity in a house worth $700k. You sell the house and split it. Costs of selling the house are split between you both (6% realtor fees, repairs etc) so you end up with $280k.You pay capital gains on $30k of that and end up with $275,500. You rollover your share of the house equity into a small condo worth 300k. Your property tax is about the same as it was in the house but your mortgage is small or nonexistent. You do have to pay condo fees. You don’t have to pay for big outside repairs and maintenance though. You also have your share of his pension to help secure your future.
Scenario 2) You trade your $300k interest in his pension for his half of the house. Now you have $600k in house equity. You keep your low property tax bill but have to pay for unexpected repairs and save for large maintenance items like new flooring and a new roof, new water heater etc. You also have to save like heck to try to build up some retirement savings. You offset some of those expenses by renting out a room.
Scenario 3) You trade the pension for the house as above. Two years from now you’re unemployed and can’t make the payments. You sell the house for what it was valued at in the divorce . However now you have to pay all the fees involved in selling, not half, so you only get $560k equity, not 600k. You roll $300k into buying that small condo but have to pay capital gains taxes on the remaining $260k, reducing it to $221,000. You end up where you would have been in scenario 1 except with $79k less in retirement savings.
Scenario 4) You trade the pension for the house as above. The housing market crashes like it did last time and you lose your job so you have to sell the house. It’s now only worth $600k so you only get $465k out if it after selling costs. You buy the condo which now only costs $250k and pay capital gains taxes on the rest so you end up with $172k - worth much less than your share of the pension, which was worth $300k.
Scenario 5) You keep your interest in the pension and take out a mortgage loan to buy him out of the house. Your mortgage payment increases by $1600 a month and you will be paying on your mortgage for the next 30 years. You will have your share of the pension payments at retirement,
Except in an environment of rapidly increasing home values (which is not likely to be the case in the immediate future as homes are so overvalued in So Cal right now) it’s seldom the right move for someone in your age group to keep the house unless you have a high paying job and can easily afford to buy him out.
I know that it’s emotional letting go of it, but also consider whether you’d want to live there with his ghosts if you divorce. I had to agree to sell the house in the divorce because I couldn’t afford to buy him out. I bought a house in a less expensive suburb and have a small mortgage payment. I am receiving my share of his pension now that he’s retired. If I hadn’t had other people I needed to house (over the last 11 years, at various times, I’ve had my mom, two of my adult sons, and a boyfriend with cancer living with me) I could have bought a smaller townhouse and been mortgage free.
Consider running different scenarios with your figures. Ask a math-savvy friend or your accountant for help if it’s not your thing. I also really like the Ultimate Retirement Calculator at the Financial Mentor site to run quick retirement scenarios and see how different decisions would affect my financial future.
He does not have a pension. This is the crux of this. We walk away and I will get half of social security when he’s old enough to take it.
I think with my job and alimony I could take care of the house. Maybe a roommate as suggested, possibly even our daughter if she does not move out right away. (She will be living here in the near future while looking for a job)
I just know so cal real estate is crazy. Buying a condo when I have a lovely back yard and privacy right now for less than half the price is brutal.
He just came home. I thought he was gone for the weekend. So he came in said hi, took a shower. I was cooking my dinner when he came out and he asked what I was making, I told him. He then told me he is going to the river to his friends house. He named off all of his friends that will be there. I think they are all divorced, never married, etc. these men were in our wedding party. As happy as I am that he told me, i am so sad that he is going to have a long weekend (he will be back Weds, then leave Thursday for ten days) and he looked relieved. He really doesn’t want to be with me. Maybe there isn’t another woman. Maybe this is all me. I am the cause of his unhappiness.
If not, then why can’t he love me? Why can’t he talk to me? Why not work it out?
PLC
I am just going to vent/cry out here-
What happened to us? I can name many situations and look at how we were raised that can be part of these issues. But ultimately, living in a SSM, money secrets and work over family have caused this spiral. MLC seems evident but then I could see that he was “happy” to be going to be with friends.
I just think that he is too far gone. I know that means take care of me, but I WANT HIM. What is the matter with me? Why am I not enough?
I know these are questions no one can answer, they aren’t him. But I think I’m great, friendly, curious, presentable always waning to learn more. I just don’t understand how someone can blow up their life like this.
I am really struggling right now.
PLC,
My WW is not in a MLC but I understand you’re feelings. She seems to be pretty happy without me and like you I fall into that trap of saying yes I know I need to focus on me but what I really want is her and it’s a crippling pain to think the person you love most seems to be happier without you.
I feel for you and I’m really sorry you’re going through it. I had one of those days yesterday where my heart felt like it breaking and then re breaking every ten minutes. I’m so sorry.
I will say that it won’t last forever. You will have moments of peace. Maybe not many right now but they will come. In those moments try to realize that it’s not your fault. It’s really not.
All the things you mentioned that have contributed to your sitch could have pushed you to do what your husband is doing but guess, what it didn’t. You have remained committed and have stuck to the fact that your marriage was a lifelong commitment. That says something great about you and your character. No one can take that away from you.
You think your great? Know that you are great!
The hardest thing for me is to accept that no matter how much you love someone or how great you are you have no control over what they do and the things they want.
I read a quote on here that said something along the lines of sometimes you can be the person only a fool would leave and your spouse will leave anyways. It doesn’t mean you’re not great. It just means your spouse is a fool that would leave a great person.
That is not on you though.
You’ll get through this one way or the other.
You never know what could happen. He’s shown you he can change his mind once, there’s nothing stopping him from changing it again.
The best thing you can do is to become that person that only a fool would leave.
I always try to expect the worse outcome and then imagine what actions can I take now that will allow me to hold my head high even in the worst outcome.
Good Morning PLC
Consider various financial scenarios, as kml suggested. Keep to intellect and logic when comparing; look at the math not the emotion.
Then consider your feelings with the various scenarios. Realizing that feelings do flit. The excitement of a new place will only last so long. As would the sadness of leaving the old place.
We are beings of rational and irrational. Happiness come from balance.
The ghost of the past, living within those walls, is something you need to think about. However, my view is a little different - I like the ghosts and memories.
I have a big house, large yard, and the kids love coming home. None of the ghost/memories haunt me. Absolutely none of them. For a while, before acceptance, that was not so. Do remember feelings change; look to your beliefs.
Consider you, when you are passed this mess. A house is sticks and bricks. A home is within your heart. You’ll find the balance between rational and irrational.
He does not have a pension. This is the crux of this. We walk away and I will get half of social security when he’s old enough to take it.
With no pension, no other large assets, it does simplify your scenarios and limit your financial options.
I think with my job and alimony I could take care of the house. Maybe a roommate as suggested, possibly even our daughter if she does not move out right away. (She will be living here in the near future while looking for a job)
You think you could. That’s good.
Now, finish your spreadsheet and know that you could or could not. Know if you need a roommate or not. Knowledge is power.
The attorney echoed what so many here have said, that to get them to put in writing what they want to do while the guilt is fresh. I’m torn because, I feel if I do, I am conceding to a divorce. If I don’t and we still divorce later, my money options could be a lot less.
Yes, their guilt usually does yield a better offer from them.
Is there separation in your state? Where I live, you have to separate for at least a year before applying for divorce. A financial separation can give you the financial security you need.
Also, do not get too worried and ahead of yourself - ensure you aren’t putting the cart before the horse. MLCers say lots of stuff and have grand ideas, and usually move rather slowly. There are some rare exceptions, my XW for example.
Her BD was a nuke.
He really doesn’t want to be with me. Maybe there isn’t another woman. Maybe this is all me. I am the cause of his unhappiness.
If not, then why can’t he love me? Why can’t he talk to me? Why not work it out?
The percentage of MLCers that have affairs is staggering. The OW means nothing. She is a bandaid, an escape, a futile attempt to feel better. It will end in ruin.
No one is the cause of anyone else’s happiness or unhappiness. Ever! Happiness, or the lack of, comes from within.
He can’t love you because he can love himself right now; he is in crisis.
He can’t talk to you because he is a complete mix of emotions, torment, and pain. He feels crazy! (My W actual told me she though she was going crazy. Of course she took that as a sign of her being clearly sane since a crazy person wouldn’t think that. Lol. You just can’t reason with a MLCer)
He can’t work it out. “It” being his unknown and unrealized past trauma causing his torment. The “it” you refer to - your marriage and relationship - is not on his radar. He is in crisis and absolutely driven to run. His emotions are out of control and he has no idea why. And you, my dear girl, were in the line of fire, and got blamed.
I just think that he is too far gone. I know that means take care of me, but I WANT HIM. What is the matter with me? Why am I not enough?
I know these are questions no one can answer, they aren’t him. But I think I’m great, friendly, curious, presentable always waning to learn more. I just don’t understand how someone can blow up their life like this.
No, he is not too far gone. It is too early to tell. The future is thankfully unknown; let it reveal itself in time.
Ask your self - do you think he is too far gone or do you feel he is? I suspect you were speaking from your feelings. That’s good, by the way. Just be accurate with your thought and heart.
Know your intellect and know your emotions. You will craft and alter each independently and correctly when you see them clearly. They influence your beliefs and convictions. Be accurate, it really helps.
There is nothing wrong with you. Of course you WANT HIM. See accurately - him is H of old. The new H is different.
Realize the emotional feedback and coupling you are reinforcing by your questions of if you’re enough and what’s wrong with me. You are blaming yourself. Perfectly normal. Been there too.
Mental assertiveness comes from remaining accurate. That assertiveness strengthens your focus on you, moves you forward, let’s go, works through fear, and so on.
It’s complete normal for one to want to understand how their spouse can blow up their life. It’s ok, just don’t get caught up in his narrative, don’t fall down the rabbit hole too. We all need a certain amount of understand to let go. Remember focus on you; too much focus on H will drive you bonkers.
Fear. It is paralyzing. It is an irrational response.
Fear lives in the future. It thrives in the obsession over possible future outcomes of events. Fear does not live in the past or present. Once something actually happens, becomes real, there is nothing left to fear. Be accurate. One needs mental assertiveness to see clearly.
To become fearless one must understand fear. See where and when it lives.
Fear is not direct. It is a tangled feedback from an imagined outcome triggered by an event, thought, word, conversation, whatever. It is imagined.
Now, imagined doesn’t mean not real. Oh no, fear is very much real. It is just triggered by your imagined future, and reinforced from emotions irrationally tied to the triggering event.
Example. Fear of the dark. It is not the absence of photons we fear. Consider that. Do you fear the darkness when you close your eyes? No. One fears what lurked unseen in the darkness of night. But do we fear the lurking? No, we fear what those imagined demons and monsters would (will) do to us. We fear hurt, pain, death.
A sudden dark room brings forth these triggered responses. Our unrealized responses to imagined personal harm, pain, or death is irrationally tied and gets reinforced when one is immersed in darkness. We incorrectly fear the dark.
Fighting our fear directly doesn’t work, for it’s not the darkness we fear. You come at this sideways. Uncouple the fear response from the trigger. Go out on dark nights and enjoy the stars, the sounds, the beauty of the cosmos. Create new feedbacks and stop the reinforcement to the imagined idea of personnel harm. Fear is a feeling and will flit when not reinforced.
Find what and how you reinforce your fear and uncouple it.
Consider your list:
1 We will divorce
2 he will remarry
3 he will be happy and realize it WAS me that made him unhappy and it isnt MLC
4 we will not grow old together
5 we will have to move
6 I will be alone and die alone because he left me
7 I will not have someone love me like a husband should
8 people will pity me
9 he will have a great time without me
10 I will never drop the rope
11 he will eventually lie more and not let me keep all he said I could
What do you imagine happening with each of these? The deeper emotion.
I am interested in your response. I did share many of these same fears and would like to hear your views, before just going on with my own uncoupling suggested practices.
Hoping you have a great day.
D
dnj, Indy,
Thank you for your responses. I do need to be the type of person only a fool would leave. I need to remember and continue to GAL as that is how that becomes a reality.
As for doing the math and figuring out the numbers of what can work, I am giving myself a day off. This has been a ongoing issue since the second BD Monday, and after speaking with the attorney yesterday, quite stressful. Instead, I am cleaning out the closet. Purging unnecessary items. It needs to be done and with H gone until Weds, I can work on the numbers before he returns. But today-closet!
I will check back in today, I am going to think about what you asked me, Dnj.
Thank you both.
Journaling:
This weekend has been hard. I began getting the numbers of what has been spent for the last twelve months so we can determine what I will need to keep the home and live. This is something an attorney suggested so I will have knowledge. It's a lot of work. I did some today, and will do some tomorrow night and Tuesday.
H told me he was going with his guy friends for a getaway and will be back on Wednesday. I have my doubts about where he is. In the last few weekends he has gone to ride his bike at the beach with a friend that has an open social media page. I have looked to see if this friend has posted anything this weekend and there is nothing. My H has also not posted, when he usually does when he goes to do something. This makes me believe that he went somewhere else with an OW or in search for an OW.
I do not know how this all plays in his need to tell me he wants a divorce. I know, I know, it really does not matter why he asked for one, except I cannot help but wonder why now?
This time last year, he was out of the country going on almost three months with NC except to ask for money twice. Our D25 was across the country and I had not hit my GAL stride. So it is how it is this weekend, with Quarantine now, I am staying home like I did a year ago.
Why is this weekend so hard? I mean no one is here, not unusual. I certainly only knew where he was but had no idea what or who he was doing.
I need some help for me to understand why this seems harder.
PLC
Hi DNJ,
Here are the thoughts on my list. I do not know how to quote, so bear with me:
1 We will divorce-
Divorce is a hard thing to view. I married, as most here, for better or worse. I truly believe we can work through this. Yes, I know of people that have divorced and reconciled, but I would prefer to work hard on reconciliation.
2 He will remarry.
He is my husband, I do not want him to marry someone else, to be in love so much that he wants to commit to another person, when he could not hold up his commitment to me.
3 He will be happy and realize it WAS me that made him unhappy not MLC.
I can understand and respect if he is going through MLC, and although I understand that all MLC sufferers do not always come out on the other side of an MLC and can spend the rest of their lives trying to be happy, I am fearful that we divorce, he is happy to be free of the commitment of marriage and I am thought of as the cause of all of this.
4 We will not grow old together
One thing, we have been together longer than a part. I envisioned us traveling together in retirement. Having grandkids together, spending the night and grandmas and grandpas. Now that is a different reality.
5 We will have to move.
I fear that this house, we will have to move from. I do not necessarily have memories that willhurt, it is more of the security. I did not ask for this, I do not deserve to have my marriage blown up and now have to move because of his issues.
6 I will be alone and die alone because he left me
I do not want to date anyone. So if I do not date I die alone.
7 I will not have someone love me like a husband should.
NOw, this is where I feel that if he could can make it through this MLC with my support, I can have this
8 People will pity me.
This may be why I have not told anyone about this sitch. They can't help. I do not want to see their sadness and not be able to answer questions is too hard.
9 He will have a great time without me.
I do not necessarily think he is having too much fun. I think that he is having fun in the moment, but since he comes home and hides in the room, I think that it is only when he is out.
10 i will never drop the rope.
I know it is counter-in tuitive but I think that if I drop it is over, I do not want to give up
11 He will eventually lie more and not let me keep all he said he would.
I am afraid if I approach and say, "hey, H, last week you suggested I could keep the house and asked what I need to live here, here is the amount, can you sign this now ?" then it is over.
I hope this helps.
PLC
If he’s feeling generous, strike while the iron is hot - they only get less generous as time goes on.
As for dropping the rope - do you understand what that means? In a tug of war, you pull on the rope, he pulls harder. You drop the rope, he falls over.
Picture this: he comes home and you look mopey and sad and haven’t done anything interesting. Is this likely to make him attracted to you? No.
Imagine a different scenario: he comes home and finds a couples empty used wine glasses on the back porch and an empty wine bottle in the kitchen . You also have sexy new lingerie drying in the bathroom. Maybe an empty Victoria’s Secret bag in the trash. Or a new hair color/ cut. If he asks, you just had a visit from a “friend”. If he pushes, tell him it’s nobody he knows.
Mind you, I’m not suggesting you date or do anything he could hold against you later. But it doesn’t hurt to let him think what’s good for the gander might also be good for the goose. Oddly, they never think about that possibility at first. Curiosity about what you might be doing while he’s gone might switch his attention from all the fun he’s having, to worrying about all the fun YOU might be having. Sometimes that’s enough to snap them out of the fog.
And btw you need to tell someone, a best friend or sister.
Than you kml,
I will consider who to talk to. This is very hard for me and I am overwhelmed from last weeks BD.
Thank for the description of dropping the rope. I honestly pictured, hanging in the air and loosing my grip and falling into the unknown. Tug of war seems less violent.
I can tell that he is with OW 2. At least I know.
I should finish the finances today as that is the deadline I gave myself. Question, I understand striking while the iron is hot. I truly believe that this current BD was precipitated by the fact he figured how to visit her. This is what he did 15 months ago when he did the first bomb drop, but if I go to him and tell him what the state of finances are and what I need to continue this lifestyle, wouldn't that be stopping standing for my marriage?
Thanks,
PLC
that would be taking care of yourself financially regardless of what happens with your marriage.
but if I go to him and tell him what the state of finances are and what I need to continue this lifestyle, wouldn't that be stopping standing for my marriage?
I will start by saying that I am not caught up on your entire situation. But, I felt I could weigh in on this. It absolutely does NOT have anything to do with standing for your marriage. If you know anything about my sitch, I speak from personal experience. I stood for my marriage for two years. I negotiated a financial agreement and retained an attorney even though it was never in my heart to file for divorce. I stood the entire time. Standing is your personal beliefs, and living your life a certain way. The finances are purely a business transaction, so you and any kids are taken care of. Dig deep to keep them separate.
Good luck on your journey.
Grace
Hello PLC
I agree with the others, standing is separate from the business of this situation.
I found myself legally separated and with full custody of my kids, 2 months after BD. My stand didn’t end.
Standing is about you and your beliefs. The business side is just that - business. Keep them isolated.
These situations are so counterintuitive; weird to find one’s self within it. H is on a journey and you weren’t invited along. His path is about him. Your financial needs are about you and the family. And your choice on standing is another facet to this situation.
...wouldn't that be stopping standing for my marriage?
In time you will find, you stand for you not your marriage.
D
Thank you for your responses. I am confused.
I spoke with my therapist, who has been along for the ride. We were discussing the finances that I figured out and how I was going to approach.
We discussed how before he kept everything private by only telling me he did not want to be married 15 months ago to last week telling my daughter 25 and then me he wants a divorce, how now it is more definite vs keeping it from everyone last year.
I am angry, I am hurt and I am bewildered why when someone tells you that you were a great wife and mother that they get to bomb the relationship into a million pieces and say, "I don't want to be enemies" Well I do. (not really) but, my IC has known me for many years and she suggested I let him see me mad, hurt or sad. This to me is opposite of DB, but I understand her point, as I have been reserved, non confrontational and letting H dictate how this is going.
H is supposed to come home from a trist tomorrow then leave for 10 days to go on vacation with his uncle and dad. IC suggested, when he is back from the long vacation, say, (I have phrased in the points I wold like to say) " I have worked out the money situation, what I would need in order to keep the house and live in it. I want to show you our finances so you can see where we stand and we can see what needs to be done to get to this point."
" I also want to ask why after 30 years of being together, and me being a good wife and mom, (Your words) would you think it is a great idea to blow up our marriage. I know that you say you are not happy, but in what way? I know that we have not had intimate relations in long time, but that does not mean it cannot happen again. We both were guilty of not wanting S-X. I have spent the last 28 years being your wife, your best friend and mother to your only child. We have made this house a home, so I wonder why you want to blow it up?"
DB friends, I realize if he thinks he is leaving, this would be last ditch, but I do want him to know that I am angry and sad and hurt. Can I do this without looking like I am pursuing him?
Any suggestions on what to say that is advantageous to a non divorce?
PLC
Hello PLC
I do understand your confusion. You are angry, sad, upset, etc; and yet you are following DB principles. It’s a tough road. (((Hugs)))
First, your marriage is dead. Before this you were not in an open relationship. You married and vowed to be monogamous, both of you. That is what you expected. H’s tryst(s) are not what you signed up for. Showing him how angry, hurt, and mad you are will not wake him up. Showing him how angry, hurt, and mad you are will not progress you toward your goals. Which, by the way, are much more than reconciliation. You walk this tough road for you! It also gives you your best chance at a reconciliation, further down the road. (Think years). Your relationship might be rebuilt. If so, it will be a new and better relationship.
If you don’t want to be divorced than don’t divorce.
Second, the business side of things is business. If you don’t
want to be divorced than don’t. If you
need financial protection/security then separate if permissible where you live, or divorce. This is a
need not a
want.
Separation or divorce will have little detrimental affect upon a reconciliation. In fact, most evidence points towards it being helpful. Your H needs to feel that he has lost you. That you aren’t sitting around being plan B. This is not manipulating his path; oh no, you don’t want that responsibility. The business side is also about you and your needs. Look at this sans emotions.
If you need financial protection, then get it.
Third, H is confused. He is ruled by emotions and running from pain that will remain buried no longer. His attention span is that of a gnat. Seriously, anything more than one or two sentences will just become noise to him. And that is probably being generous - from my experiences. And for those few items that do get in his head, they flit away pretty fast as well.
Keep conversation short and simple. Explaining and trying to reason with him will not work. He is ruled by his emotions and those change all the time.
Forth, if you dump upon him your anger, hurt, and sadness; try to make him see; he will run. He cannot handle his own emotions, never mind your’s or anyone else’s.
H will expend enormous energies in maintaining his fantasy. He has too. Anyone who gets in his way will be mowed down. Any arguing with him is just justification to him for his leaving. Anything, really, can be turned into H’s justification; he is in crisis, he is irrational.
He will bait you. Attempting you to bite and attack. Oh, the MLCers are masters at taunting and manipulating. Anything you say will be taken the worse possible way or just be taken completely out of context.
Remain cordial and roommate-like. Leave him to his path. You focus on you.
Fifth, when this is all over, which ever way it goes, you’ll want no or few regrets. Blowing up at H will feel good for a brief time - very brief. Stick to the high road.
DB friends, I realize if he thinks he is leaving, this would be last ditch, but I do want him to know that I am angry and sad and hurt. Can I do this without looking like I am pursuing him?
Any suggestions on what to say that is advantageous to a non divorce?
The above, is your best chance. You may end up divorced, you may not. You may reconcile, or you might not. No one can predict the future. However, I guarantee you can become better. You can become healed.
That path feels wrong, I know. It will be counterintuitive until it isn’t.
Do not say anything relationship-wise to H. He will bolt. Let him go. You cannot stop him. His is in an irrational mid life crisis.
H knows how you feel. He really does. But, he cannot handle it. He runs, and hides, and blames, and justifies, in a futile attempt to make you the “bad guy” to try to live with his shame and guilt. Oh, the stuff they will justify for their new life is truly mind-boggling.
H is now an alien. Focus on you. Find your beliefs. Examine them. Strengthen those you want and alter or discard those you don’t. You have the gift of time, use it well.
Let go of your fears. Let go of H.
Be cordial and kind, like a roommate. No cake eating.
Enforce rock solid boundaries for disrespectful behaviour from H. This is you controlling what you do, not getting H to change. It is for your health and welfare.
Get your life in order. Financially, physically, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually.
All of that is the most advantageous way to a non-divorce or reconciliation or new R outcome. A healthy healed person is very attractive. Be and live the woman only a fool would leave. It then becomes up to H to either remain the fool or decide to change.
Remember, you are the most important person in this equation. The really “big” reason for all this - is YOU!
D
Thank you DnJ,
I need to think of him as a roommate. I had been doing that, pandemic hit, was nice in asking if he was going to be joining me for dinner, or other little requests. He was always responsive, especially until our D25 left from her three month spring break here at the end of June. I noticed within a few days, his mood changed and he became very distant.
I had discovered the newer OW before this, so I chalked it up to their "relationship"
In the last few weeks, he has left town again, (as you know, no need for me to bring it all up again). So Friday, when he left for his "guys getaway" I knew he was heading to some OW or in search of a new OW. He told me he would be home today, and he was on the doorstep at 8:00am.
I figured he would be gone again after i left for work, but he said he is leaving for a vacation with his dad and uncle not until Friday or Saturday. UGH
I of course, want him to be here, but to be the old H. I have gotten used to being on my own and especially with his non interaction, it is better when he is either gone or locked in the room.
I am going to present the numbers, when his vacation is over. I read what you wrote, and I only NEED financial security if we divorced. Right now, it is status quo with me receiving the paycheck and paying bills.
I wanted to ask your opinion, ( I am sure you'll say don't wonder about him, take care of you,) but I would like to know what you think.
H did not post on any social media while gone, understandable as he lied about his whereabouts. I noticed newly discovered OW changed her profile picture to one of her in a very obvious hotel room. It even looks like his suitcase is in the frame. He did not like or comment on this at all. Even now, nothing. With OW 1 he would comment how much he loved her (like a little kid), even this new one had an "I love you" in the beginning.
When he came home last year after being gone three + months, he was Mr. Happy, he was in love and was certain where his future would be. This time, he seemed really introverted and not friendly really at all. He is not a jerk, but has no time for anything.
Am I wrong to think that this weekend possibly did not go as planned? I know that does not mean he wants me if it didn't, but with a WW, did you ever notice mood changes that you had no hand in? Sometimes I can think of what outside interference is bothering him, like his job, but this is definitley not me.
Anyway, I hate to say it, but when his mood changes like this, I realize Fantasy land may not be so perfect and I like that.
PLC
Good Morning PLC
I am going to present the numbers, when his vacation is over. I read what you wrote, and I only NEED financial security if we divorced. Right now, it is status quo with me receiving the paycheck and paying bills.
I am glad you have the financial amounts figured out. Why are you presenting them to H? What are you looking to achieve for you?
As you say, right now it’s status quo, and your posts make it sound like it’s working.
Gather information and keep it to yourself. Especially if you are not currently proposing a separation. Anything you give him, particularly in writing, can and will be used against you later. Those numbers, in a few months, could have a low estimate or not have taken in some infrequent expenses, but H will hold hard to that paperwork. People in emotional turmoil do tend to bring forth all kinds of legal threats and mumbo jumbo. It’s best to just steer clear of that minefield.
If a future negotiation, dissolvement of your partnership (remain business-like, less emotion), we’re to take place you present your facts then. Until then, keep your information to yourself. Do not share with the other side. You may never need too. And if the need suddenly comes up, you are prepared.
If all is status quo and you have no misgivings, maybe don’t rock the boat. I believe that fits in with your present desires and outlook regarding marriage and divorce. Just be ready in case.
Am I wrong to think that this weekend possibly did not go as planned? I know that does not mean he wants me if it didn't, but with a WW, did you ever notice mood changes that you had no hand in? Sometimes I can think of what outside interference is bothering him, like his job, but this is definitley not me.
When my XW first left with OM, she flaunted it all over town. On social media (until our divorce and when I blocked her, 18 months after BD) OM had never been photographed or specifically mentioned. XW still had wedding pictures, anniversary pictures, but removed me as her husband and didn’t enter anyone as in a relationship with her. XW told me it’s because OM likes to be private.
It’s hard to say what these MLCers are thinking. I suspect H’s weekend may not have gone as planned. What that means, who knows? His journey is all about him. The OW isn’t really even along for the ride; she is just a band aid, which will be ripped off once it’s purpose is fulfilled.
Yes, there are plenty of mode changes in H that you have no hand in. Friends tend to distance themselves from the MLCer. Only enablers provide what the crisis person is after; and everyone else gets treated rather poorly. Friendships don’t work that way, and inevitable the MLCer progresses toward a lonelier and lonelier existence. They might have people/enablers around them, but they are lonely inside.
His mood swings, the silence on social media, and so on, is pretty common. These people are in depression and pull inward, emotionally shutting out the world.
Anyway, I hate to say it, but when his mood changes like this, I realize Fantasy land may not be so perfect and I like that.
It’s ok to like that!
Fantasy land is not perfect. H is still suffering, his running into fantasy has done nothing to remedy his torment. He has added to it, and just put off facing it. Of course he is too emotionally immature to see that. When his day of reckoning comes, he will have heaped on much more than he started with.
It takes a certain amount of understanding to let go. I believe you are walking a fine path my friend. Continue moving forward. Continue considering what you see and the advice you receive.
D
Thank you for the response.
So, finally today, he responded to the profile picture of OW. Instead of feeling
bad, I just expected it and and somewhat happy to know my hunches of who it was is correct.
I don’t know why the following realization finally came to me today:
My H has been “in love” twice in less than a year. If that doesn’t scream teen/mlc I don’t know what does.
Anyway. Thanks again.
Dnj,
I was thinking about you asking why I was going to present the numbers, and I realized that yes, status quo right now is still happening as I handle the money. I felt I needed to because he seems so sure of D and wanted to know how much I’d need and he wants me to keep the house. I have read so much to get them to sign when they are “generous”.
Honestly, although I know he is in the midst of a MLC, that with pretty much certainty began late 2016 early 2017. It took him two years to drop the B and another 15 months to drop the D word. I know when he told me that he wants a D, he believed it and he had also just come off of a successful weekend away. So in his mind, drop the bomb, get divorced and move onto OW. It’s been over a week now, and granted he was gone four days, nothing really changed when he came home.
I don’t know if he’s waiting for me to present him with the numbers, or if he’s in fantasy land and is just waiting for me to bed fed up. I can wait. I can wait a long time.
Let’s see how this goes.
Thank you for your encouragement. I feel I have another friend here on the board.
PLC
Good Morning PLC
It was good to read your well thought out response to why present the numbers.
H has been upon his path a long time already, as you know. MLCers usually move pretty slow. They talk big, but do little - most times. For the big important stuff. The stuff that takes effort. They usually poke at the LBS in hopes for us to get fed up and do it, or for us to lash out to get a fire lit under them. I like your attitude of not taking the bait and just seeing where this goes.
You know you are financially alright, so move forward and live your life. H will do what he will anyhow, whichever course you are to take.
And yes, I’m a friend. (((PLC)))
D
Honestly, although I know he is in the midst of a MLC, that with pretty much certainty began late 2016 early 2017. It took him two years to drop the B and another 15 months to drop the D word. I know when he told me that he wants a D, he believed it and he had also just come off of a successful weekend away. So in his mind, drop the bomb, get divorced and move onto OW. It’s been over a week now, and granted he was gone four days, nothing really changed when he came home.
I don’t know if he’s waiting for me to present him with the numbers, or if he’s in fantasy land and is just waiting for me to bed fed up. I can wait. I can wait a long time.
Hi PLC,
I’ve been reading along and am mostly caught up on your situation. It’s amazing how slow things move. I remember being told this and reading this on other people’s sites. But it really is quite baffling being presented with the want to divorce followed by a lot of inaction.
I think your right on both accounts ...H living in a fantasy land and wanting you to do the work = confusion shining through on their part.
I too feel like my H wants me to do the work. I flat out refuse to do that and plan to wait as well. I find the tricky part is not getting caught up in watching him as I try to GAL.
Keep on doing well!
(((Hugs)))
Kindly,
Thank you Kindly, and Dnj,
I definitely am going to use this gift of time to work on me.
It feels weird this week. He is on his vacation with his uncle. (Dad couldn’t go at the last minute) I want to know how it is going. Our D25 got home and he left the same day. I assume he has texted her, but I don’t want to ask her as she knows what is going on and I don’t NEED to know.
I think this is the hardest “dropping the rope” I have struggled with. He told me when he was leaving, had normal chit chat (like before the second BD) but I do not want to reach out.
I feel conflicted because, I don’t know if his chatting was because he told me what he wanted and feels relief or if that even matters in his flitting thoughts. His social media has indicated where he is, but nothing giving anything away.
I’ll check back in. This just is making me uneasy and I dont know why.
PLC
Im back, literally seven minutes after I post that I feel uneasy. I am going to try and articulate why now…
Gut feeling tells me that this new wrinkle asking for a divorce is because he has a new OW. I recently went through his old IG posts when the first OW was in the picture and I can actually see the length of the relationship he had and the rollercoaster ride it was.
He now is in the “bloom” of a new OW, if history repeats, we are looking at about five or six months before it runs aground. Maybe it won’t. But regardless, I can tell there is some confidence. My therapist told me he really believes he wants a D because this time he told our D25. I think that is my uneasiness.
Maybe it isn’t MLC . Maybe he is just a 57 yo guy who has been in love with two different 20 something year olds in the last year. He also has bought a skateboard. Maybe he just wants to get a new activity?
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
Hi PLC
A 57 year old guy infatuated with two different 20 something year olds. And he is taking up skateboarding. Wow. From my perspective, it looks pretty obvious he is trying to recapture his lost youth.
And by the way, no he is not in love. He only feels he is. It’s just the rush of hormones. Infatuation. A 30+ year age difference. Think of it, in the span of a year H found true love with some 20+ gal, dumped her, and found true love again with another 20+ gal. Hallmark of MLC.
I know how difficult it is to believe in MLC. To accept the things you’ve actually seen.
MLCers spin convincing tales. Their fantasy world must be maintained. They are masters of manipulation. Do not fall into the trap of believing his fantasy reality.
It sounds like you don’t know if there actually is OW2 or not. Fear response. Your imagination is leading you.
Picture that big red stop sign.
Drop the rope.
Focus on you.
What did you do this past weekend? What activities do you have planned for tomorrow?
My days off - I cut my grass, trimmed some trees, walked my dogs, visited my Dad in the care home, had supper with my Mom, watch a few movies, paid some bills, played the piano, and spoke with a new friend. That’s you btw. (((PLC)))
Stay strong. You got this.
D
Hi Dnj,
This weekend was a frustrating one as D25 is moving back since getting her Masters. She will be looking for a job and hopefully out soon. With the way the world is, we can only hope. I like having her here, I just know that is not what she wants.
My week is work and tomorrow is a work from home day, I have IC appt by phone and I usually plan a nice dinner since I am home and can have a more detailed meal. I just need to be more focused on me.
It’s hard, because I want to reach out, see how his uncle (80) is enjoying the trip. I also would like to know how H is.
You mentioned I don’t know if there’s an OW2, I know there was a “visit” to someone while he was recently gone, but I do not know if it is “serious”.
Honestly, I just don’t know why this is hard this time. Maybe a good nights rest will help. Last year, he was gone three months and I never reached out to him.
I know he knows I’m around.
Thank you for the hug. Hugs back.
PLC
Yes definitely a MLC. Fear of death and dying triggers an intense fear that they have "missed out" on something.
And to be fair, while I never understood MLC, I have come around to seeing why it is more common in some people. I have a family history of longevity and so have somewhat taken it for granted that I too will probably live to 90 or better. Therefore, turning 50 or 60 didn't really trigger fear in me. But for a man, especially if he has known other men who dropped dead of heart attacks in their 50's or 60's, the future might not look so certain. Even I, now, at 64 am starting to think about my bucket list and how I want to spend the next 20-30 years of my life. I'm not having a MLC but I can understand a little better where it comes from. My ex ALWAYS had a fear of death and aging, despite longevity in his family too, and I think it was tied in part to a good friend of his dying of a lightning strike at age 12.
That being said - don't put your daughter in the middle. no matter what. Don't ask her anything about her father unless she volunteers. Focus on showing her that YOU are strong and model for her what it looks like to recover from betrayal and go forward with your life. My kids were amazed that their mom took up playing the drums and then played in a punk cover band and now tours occasionally with a professional musician friend playing percussion. Their relief that I am doing okay makes them feel a little safer in the world that their father blew up.
Find some fun things to do with her while she's living with you. This may be a blessing that can take some of your focus off of your H and provide you with companionship at a time that it is hard to come by. Treat it as a unique opportunity to grow your relationship with her.
Also, be aware she may blow up at you - don't take it personally. They usually vent at the "safe" parent. She might even blame you for the breakup - don't bite. She can't vent at her father without risking losing his love. She's more secure in yours.
Stick to the high road and don't badmouth your H. It's ok to stick to the facts - that he had a previous affair, that you were hoping for marriage counseling/reconciliation but he is not open to that. Divorce is not your choice but you do not have the power to control his actions. That's enough information.
Trust me she will NOT be amused that he is dating women her age.
Maybe you and she can make vision boards together? Might be a fun evening.
Do your crying and moping in private. Her world is already shaken, she doesn't need to be worrying about you too - it only makes her feel more insecure in the world.
Kml,
I posted my question before I noticed you responded. Thank you. I am totally afraid she is going to lash out at me. You’re right, I am the safe parent.
Last evening, I was angry that the house is still messy from her move home, and I really was so close to telling her I needed something I could control as her dad wanting a divorce was upending my life and I needed something that was a sure thing. (Organization) I didn’t, because I would be mad at her over his behavior, but I also I also am afraid that she’ll say, “ I understand why dad left” because she’s mad. I need to GAL for me and her.
I can’t mention the affairs as he doesn’t know I know. Everything will come out in time, but right now it is a secret.
Thank you for your wisdom.
I need some advice/encouragement...
H posted on social media that he hit a racing goal that he has been trying for for years. This vacation that he is on, is an annual event. Well, the cards are in his favor and he met the elusive goal. I know how happy he must feel and I am torn, I am thrilled for him.
Do I reach out to congratulate? This has been such a goal for so long that I totally understand what this means to him.
If I do, do I call or text or post on his social media post? If so, what do I say?
PLC
You can post a congratulations on social media.
H hasn’t blocked. You haven’t block hm. It’s ok to acknowledge his goal attainment. Keep it short, cordial and kind.
“Congratulations H! Way to go!”
Hi Dnj,
I realized, I can congratulate H when he gets home. Him posting told me and anyone else his goal was met. He definitely was not posting for me, otherwise he would have called me or texted.
I need to be in NC for anything other than necessity. This is not a necessity.
Thanks!
Unless you want the OW to see you posting on his social media. But that might backfire, he might unfriend you if it's brought to his attention. So yeah, tell him when he gets home.
Smart Kml,
I didn’t even think of that. I don’t know if she follows him on IG, but why see?
That reminds me last year, while he was out of the country for work and with OW1, he posted something and my father responded about how H had a racing MIL. OW1 at that time did follow H and I am sure my dad innocently replying to a post outing H had an MIL was not in his plan.
Thanks for agreeing when he’s home to let him know. It’s hard, because it’s been a long time dream, but it definitely is not what he wants from me.
PLC
Good Morning PLC
... but it definitely is not what he wants from me.
You really don’t know what he wants from you. He doesn’t know what he truly wants, it changes all the time.
Mind reading is a problem-filled landscape. Accuracy in thought and heart helps, I found. Consider what H does and says, not what you think or interpret those to mean. Believe none of what they say and only half of what they do. (More or less
)
When H says something, that’s all it is. He said something. It may be true at the time, it might (and probably will) change, he might be lying, or manipulating, or just trying to pick a fight, or whatever. Don’t make it more than it is.
He is confused and depressed. He will speak mostly in negatives and in absolutes - it’s just where he is right now.
Focus on you and continue moving forward.
Good decision to wait until H gets home. NC is a very good for healing.
You got this.
D
Good Morning DNJ,
Thank you for chiming in.
You can understand how confusing this is, and then I think how confusing it is for him. I can’t worry about the confusion for both of us, just me.
Yesterday, I went back and reread some information I had read on MLC and affairs when I discovered the first affair and it solidified my instincts to stand and for forward.
So today, I am headed to work, then a fun meal at home with D25.
I am looking into taking an overnight trip for me alone. So that will be on the agenda to pick somewhere. I need a change of scenery.
PLC
When my ex first told me he wanted a divorce, I took a night away in a local nice hotel. Just told him I was going away for the weekend, not where or anything - let him worry! I ordered room service, watched a movie, laid out by the pool and drank some drinks with umbrellas in them while I read by the pool. It was great to have the peace and quiet and luxury to myself.
Thanks KML,
I think that it is needed. I just don’t know how to tell D25 without telling her where. I don’t want him to know, and obviously I cannot ask her to keep from him because I don’t want to play that game.
Any suggestions?
Well, he ended up setting a record. That is a huge accomplishment. I went back and forth on if I should say anything and I texted him instead of posting. He responded “Thank you” I did not ask anything and I feel a little relief knowing I reached out for that.
I have no desire to talk with him, so that is good.
I assume he will be home no later than Sunday since he will have to work Monday. I will just see him when he returns.
In the meantime. It is hot here and I will try to keep cool temperature wise and emotionally.
Well done PLC.
Texting, instead of posting, was a good idea.
It’s hot here too. Really glad for air conditioning.
Thank you for the validation, Dnj.
I really was concerned reaching out was too much. But in the end, I felt I had to so I did. Was I disappointed he only responded, “thank you”? Yep. Was I surprised? No.
I did go through his IG pictures from this week, and looked at who liked them and commented, and it’s all people that he knows (men) from this hobby. A few of my family members that he responded to, his comments were nice.
So IF OW2 is there, she doesn’t comment or like his posts. I mean, maybe she doesn’t so I don’t find out.
Anyway, enough of him today. It’s already hot at 9:00 am so I’ve got the air going and am going to relax and read today in the cool AC.
PLC
So, my D25 told me that H will be home today.
He’s been gone before and come home when she’s home, but I’m feeling anxious this time.
I texted my IC and she suggested that I might be anxious because since the recent D BD, and I have to admit, she’s right. He told me he wanted a D, left that weekend for his hook-up, came home, then was getting ready to leave for this recent trip. He has not really been home for any length of time to make me see that even though he asked, he is not doing anything about it.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do? It is extremely hot here and we are in a pretty locked down state. Normally, I would take off and be gone when he comes home, but I just want to stay inside the cool AC and relax.
Why would you think it would be relaxing to be home for something so difficult?
I would come up with something to do that you really really want to do and try to not think about H as much as is possible for you.
If possible, make that thing service to others.
Do you have neighbors who need help in some way -- grocery shopping or yard work?
Could you write letters to all the residents of a nearby nursing home?
DO things. Fill your hours with goodness.
It will be hard enough to see your H when you get back but if you are full of the positive choices you made, it will be less hard.
Hi Gerda,
I would just like to relax at home minding my own business. I work all week and I am just tired, I am sure there is some depression with all that is going on, and sometimes I feel that this will not end in my favor and I get overwhelmed. Home is my safe place. usually he is locked in the bedroom or out. I get the house for my use mostly.
I understand what you are saying though. As it happened, I was leaving to run errands and when I opened the door, he was unloading his truck, I said a quick hello, called to our D and told her her dad was home, then left. I was back after an hour or so, he was locked in the room. I made dinner, ate, cleaned the kitchen made some visiting phone calls, and watched some tv. We never saw him again.
That is how he is. I don’t mind the ignoring so much anymore as this is so normal. Hopefully, there will be a day where he chooses to speak to me, at this moment, I hope I’m around to speak with him. I am trying to stand and move forward for me.
PLC
Hi
It was always difficult in the beginning of MLC when my Xh came home and either ignored me or left the room
so whatever you can do to take care of yourself right now
If it true MLC, His behavior will most likely stay the same for some time
so continue to keep expectations low, be cordial kind to him and find ways to keep busy or find peace
It i not your fault he is acting like this and really nothing can pull him out of it-
Now its more about you and self care, find support and let go as best you can day by day
hard yes I know-
if you can create a friendship with him, that may help for more contact
but if that feels difficult,
then less contact may be best because he cant be the H you want right now
Thank you PT,
I have gone through one OW with him, and this is the behavior that he displayed at the beginning with her. Almost a “cheating” on her if he spoke to me or was around. It is very juvenile, I know. I mean, he’s married cheating on me but is acting like he can’t talk to me because it is a betrayal to their relationship.
I was working towards a little”new normal” with little conversations, he would eat in the room with me, the meals I cooked, this was after the first 26YO OW was over. I noticed he began sliding back into the non looking at my eyes, eating after I left the room began around May. I discovered OW contestant number 2 (that I am aware of) at the end of May. He gradually went back into self exile after that point, the asked for a D at the end of July.
He has traveled for work and pleasure since then, so I am usually alone. I have really made my house a sanctuary for me.
He really can’t be the H I want, and I am ok some days, realizing this is MLC, other days, my mind tells me MLC, and then it also tells me, he just doesn’t want ME. It’s a battle within me, I can’t even imagine what his battle is like within him. Does he even realize what he’s done?
When he asked for the Divorce, he said he didn’t want to be “enemies” don’t friends speak? Also when asked and prodded a little by me if he had someone else, he said no. So the lies are sticking there.
Anyway, I have the whole day ahead. I will do something. He already left and I don’t expect to see him until tonight.
PLC
My XH lied about the OW almost to the end, until I knew for sure he was with someone
I denied it to myself for a while, and I believed his lies
Truthfully, I think there is a part of them that does not want to hurt us yet they cant stop themselves
It does take some time to process the whole ordeal in our minds and accept
It was so strange to see my XH turn into a totally different man
A lot of back and forth in my mind, a lot of therapy and support from others who had traveled the road
No matter what your H does, you will be ok-it gets easier in time
keep posting and be good to yourself
I wonder why he doesn’t admit to OW. If he is afraid hurting me, why stray and ask for a D?
Sometimes I wonder if it is self preservation in case things don’t work out, he can come back. H probably thinks if I know there’s OW, he’s out of the house. It’s a lot more complicated than that. He has no idea.
Thank you for the kind words. I will keep posting, as sadly we all are in different stages and can help each other.
PLC
I agree with Peacetoday. My XH did the same thing....lied to the bitter end despite me confronting him numerous times. The evidence was there...he was living with her...but swore ON OUR CHILDREN’S LIVES that she was just a roommate and someone he barely ever saw. Why do they do it? I think my XH didn’t want to hurt me (I know, ironic) and that he honestly thought that by the time I found out for sure, enough time would have passed that I no longer cared. That and he hates conflict and will do anything to avoid it. Also...third factor. Shame. He wanted what he wanted but it doesn’t mean he didn’t know it was wrong or that it wasn’t a betrayal of the highest order. Unless the WAS’s are sociopaths, they do feel shame which as we all know, is the WORST feeling. Hang in there PLC. My advice would be to stop worrying about the whys. It doesn’t really matter if the result is the same. Just keep the focus on you and on building your own life. Also...remember...the hallmark of real love is loving them enough to let them go. Focus on doing that. I did and I am SO much better off because of it. It’s not easy... but it IS possible if you keep at it. (((HUGS)))
Thank you DV,
It is all so confusing. In my head I know I need to focus on me, but my heart is what trips me up. Letting him go or not, it really isn’t my choice to “let him go” it is more “let go” he already has “left” without my blessing.
Shame is a big one, I know that H probably does not want people in his “pre MLC” life that all admire him and think he is salt of the earth and such a great guy who can do no wrong, did wrong. Regardless of how he may decide to change history, you don’t stay together 30 years and all of a sudden do this. I am not saying it was all perfect, but he was definitely the H that if you asked me pre BD if I could ever see him straying and blowing up his life, I would have emphatically said no way.
I do try to figure out why and I don’t have the answers. I need to let that go and work on the answers I can find, what do I want to do, where do I want to go? What am I doing to GAL?
I am going to make a vision board too. My daughter made a graduation poster for a drive by graduation and there are extra posters that were not used. I need to put goals that I can work towards while he is on his path. Especially now, since I know there’s OW2, he is not going to be chatty anytime soon, so I should make use of this time.
As you know, it is just so hard, sometimes I just want to close myself in the room like he does until I need to go to work.
Thanks for the hugs, I needed one.
PLC
Hello PLC
...he’s married cheating on me but is acting like he can’t talk to me because it is a betrayal to their relationship.
Oh yes. My XW told me she was faithful to OM. Lol. A married women being faithful to her affair partner, while leaving her family.
They do grab hold of their new lives pretty hard. And the tighter they squeeze the more can slip through their fingers.
When he asked for the Divorce, he said he didn’t want to be “enemies” don’t friends speak?
He could be telling the truth. He doesn’t want to be enemies.
You are only seeing enemies or friends; he wants strangers.
Enemy and friend, hate and love, just the other side of the same coin - desire. Indifference is the opposite.
Yes, friends speak. He wants, and is driven, to hide. Let him go. Remember, no pressure.
I do empathize with you. We all need to find a certain amount of understanding before we can let go. It’s ok. While you are doing that, have faith, GAL, live, and laugh.
Regardless of how he may decide to change history, you don’t stay together 30 years and all of a sudden do this. I am not saying it was all perfect, but he was definitely the H that if you asked me pre BD if I could ever see him straying and blowing up his life, I would have emphatically said no way.
Yes, you don’t make 30 years without having something of substance. I know.
H didn’t snap suddenly, contrary to how it appears to you. He silently slid away over probably a year or two. If you look back, you can most likely see a triggering event around 18-24 months before BD. A death, a marriage, a missed promotion, etc. That is the trigger that sent H upon his confused journey.
My wife, and friend, of a good long marriage had my complete trust and faith. I know how you feel. Emphatically, no way she would do that! But, of course, she did. My world was crushed beyond belief. Ha, that is actually rather literal, when I think about it.
H is in crisis. He has shame, guilt, and plenty of pain and depression. You are his target of projections, to create false justifications. Stop internalizing what he says and does. His MLC is about him, not you.
Oh yes, he will blame you, push a narrative of a rewritten history. All in an attempt to feel better. His MLC is about him, not you.
It’s not the guilt and shame. For MLCers hate themselves. Their irrational behaviours is them running from themselves. It’s not you H is running from; it’s his life and himself.
H is locked in depression, deep, dark, and ceaseless. His world is very small, inward looking, and confining. He feels only for himself, and far too much of that. He cannot stop it. And he feels rather crazy.
In time he may find his way. I do believe it is possible. It is his journey and you were not invited along. (((PLC)))
We all need a certain amount of understanding to let go.
Continue moving forward, and living.
You got this.
D
Thank you Dnj,
Tonight, I just feel very overwhelmed. I have read thru some others sitches and although these people have found happiness on the other side of this, I am not ready to face that possible truth. Am I crazy? I know there have to be some where the MLCer comes back? I just need some hope.
I might feel this way as he came home, grunted hi, took a shower and has been locked in the room since. Dinner has come and gone with nary a peep. Not unusual, but sad nonetheless.
I need to stop wondering why, like is it her? Are they apart now? Is he regretful? Do I matter? Does our daughter? I don’t know. I need to let that wondering go.
What if don’t want to let go? It’s just harder for me, right? He left me.
I’m sorry, I’m all over tonight.
Goodnight.
PLC
It’s ok PLC. This is a difficult path.
Focus on you and daughter.
There is always hope.
And yes, some MLCers do wake up. Let the future reveal itself in due time. Continue your inner work. Become the best version of you.
Your twisting path: You are not without weapons. Mental assertiveness. Utilize your intellect, it will reinforce your better feelings, and strengthen beliefs. Compliment that mental effort with physical activity. Logic and reason are powerful - sword and shield. Cut through the fog and find clarity. Block the projections and spew from H.
What if don’t want to let go? It’s just harder for me, right? He left me.
Of course you don’t want to let go. You are the LBS. It’s perfectly normal. You are fine. You’re not crazy.
However, you do see the wisdom in letting go. Right? You see how fear is paralyzing you.
This is a battle within you. Use your weapons - logic and reason. It will feel wrong, this is very counterintuitive. You have a 30 year relationship, all that history, trust, loyalty, etc. to put aside to realize that H is an alien, for right now.
Do I matter? Does our daughter? I don’t know.
Yes, you matter.
Mental assertiveness shield - stop measuring your worth based upon H’s actions. You matter!
Mental assertiveness sword - cut those strings H is pulling you with. You matter!
Focus on you. Detach. Find indifference. Let go.
You’ve got a strong mind. Be strong.
D
(((PLC))). Gosh I remember being where you are. It was so, so hard. At the time, I hated that my H moved out pretty much right after I found out about his double life. Now I am grateful because I think an IHS would have been so much more difficult to move on from. There is something to be said for out of sight out of mind. It doesn’t happen right away but eventually it does...not if they are still living with you though.
I remember when XH and I had a talk in what used to be our bedroom. Normally he would have sat on the bed across from me but this time he leaned up against the window and that was my first thought...he feels like he is cheating on OW just by being in the room with me. Same for when he finds himself talking to me too much now. There is a point, if we have too friendly or too long of an exchange, where I see or feel (if he is texting me) him shut down...like seeing me in too positive of a light is a betrayal and also flies in the face of his belief that I am the cause of his unhappiness. He has to see me that way otherwise he has to look in the mirror and that is just too painful.
I, too, scoured this site for success stories when I first joined this forum and did not see myself as ready to face the idea of a life without my H. But I realized over time that that was just my fear getting in my way. The reality was that I was already living that life. I don’t know whose threads you have read but one of the most well-known ones on here is BluWave. She still visits from time to time and may even stop by to comment on yours. She has great advice. My memory is being tested but I think maybe Westo is another one? Steve85 is a third for sure although his wife never really left but she was planning on it and she did a 180 because of his commitment to DBing. There are others I know. I seem to recall that I stumbled on a thread where three women talked about their husbands coming back but despite numerous attempts, I was never able to find it again. So it does happen. It’s okay to hope but for your own sake, don’t hope for a specific outcome other than healing and peace. Whether or not your marriage is saved is secondary to that.
DnJ gives you excellent advice...as usual. Try to follow it as best you can. It will help. Sending you lots more (((HUGS))).
Thank you both,
I appreciate the kind words and the hugs.
I will look for the posters you mentioned, Dnj, I actually think Steve85 has comment on my posts. It is always helpful to see results and know that there are positive outcomes.
I know I have a controlling side, because I want to scream at him and tell him what he is doing wrong and can’t he see what he is doing. I won’t though.
So update on last night, I went to bed and never heard him get up until this morning when he came in to take a shower. My dad wanted to hear about his victory this last week so I mentioned to him, “hey, my dad was pretty excited about your record, he’d like to hear about it” he replied, “I’ll do it later, right now I am meeting (his boss) he wants to go over what needs to be done as he’s leaving for a trip” it was 6:00 am, yes that time is normal to meet the boss, but to call my dad, please don’t call him on a Sunday morning, or any morning, at 6:00 am.
He was nice enough, but who knows if he will reach out to him or not.
I really need to work on my 180’s. Today, D25 has items to move to storage and we probably will be gone for a while. Nothing too exciting, but at least we will be out of the house.
I know this anxiety, is tied to the recent determined BD three weeks ago. I need to have that spurn me on to keep GALing.
PLC
I know this is going to sound like I should know the answer, but as a LBS sometimes the obvious isn’t.
I shouldn’t be cooking for him, should I? If I am in the kitchen making myself something and he wanders in, I can offer to share, but if I am cooking and he is ensconced in his room, I am not going to knock on the door and ask him if I can make a plate, am I?
Case in point, today D25 and I went to her storage locker and when we came back, he was in the room, door closed. I was hungry, made myself some lunch and ate. Later D25 made herself some lunch and was eating when he came out of the room. I heard him ask her if there was anything good and whatever her reply was not what he wanted to hear so he left to eat. It is so hot here, I am a salad kind of gal. That is what I am planning for dinner, it won’t be for a few hours, but I just make what I planned, right? It seems so silly to ask, but if I should be asking him, I will.
After the first BD last spring, I did eventually see a thaw between OW and at that time, I would ask him if he wanted anything and he actually would occasionally bring home food to share. I am not seeing a thaw. The last thaw happened probably six or seven months after discovery of OW and their subsequent break up. I was trying to navigate that when he abruptly shut down in May (one year after first BD) and now is still strong.
I also stopped doing his laundry as he knows how to operate the washer and dryer and why should I?
Anyway, thank you.
PLC
Hello PLC
Treat H like a roommate.
Like you did with D25. You were hungry and made some lunch. Later she made herself some lunch.
H is basically holed up in his room. He’ll figure something out for meals.
Now, if he is out and about within the house. Maybe even spoke to you. By all means you can ask if he wants to join for the meal. Something like, “Hi H. I’m making steak and potatoes. Would you like to join me?”
Ever situation is different because every person is different. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn’t. Follow this:
Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
You can propose a meal. If he rejects it; and he could, remember too much pressure; then it doesn’t work - for now. It might work later, but much later. Don’t try it again for a good while. Besides he can work a door, he can emerge and ask to join you.
We teach people how to treat us. You don’t want to be going to his room to see if he is ready for a meal. You’re not at his beck and call. Do like you did for the laundry.
Take your focus off H. Of course you have questions about MLC, and answers will come. Be patient. Dig deep for patience.
Take your focus off H. You are looking for signs. Crisis people are irrational. Their signs change all the time. And they are masters of manipulation. Pull back, way back. Give him space and time and a good portion of both. Let him choke on it. Now that might not sound all that compassionate. Counterintuitive. It is.
H is a troubled and lost soul. He needs to feel nothing for you, then from there realize you cannot be the cause of his pain. Then maybe look within and start to heal. He also needs to feel he lost you. You cannot be sitting around like plan B. You are the prize. You are the wife.
This is H’s journey and it goes at his pace and in his direction. Let it go where it needs to go. Anything else will delay his journey.
You have your own journey as well. Take you focus off H. Focus on you. GAL. Stand. Become indifferent. Compassionately indifferent.
You are doing fine. And asking good questions. This ain’t easy - oh boy do I know that!
You got this girl.
D
Dnj-
H figured out how to open the door. Lol
I was cooking making lots of noise and there were tons of yummy scents coming from the kitchen. The minute I served my plate and sat down, he came in.
I asked him if he wanted any of what I cooked and he LOVED it. When he was done eating, he went into the kitchen, cleaned his plate then went back to the room.
I know one thing, I CAN COOK WELL.
PLC
PLC
I like what DNJ said
I would also add to keep expectations low.
and do what seems best for you-
Being a good ccok is a gift..
Your H will also have to feel/accept that loss if he chooses to leave
I did spend a lot of time trying to engage my XH in conversation and listening to him..
when he visited the kids
This created a friendship and i felt like I could be a supportive wife/friend especially around business issues he was having
In the end, I always felt good about the effort and thought I put into navigating through the MLC process with XH
We all absolutely do/give our best
sometimes it works, sometimes not but we have to play it out and let H decide in his time
Thank you Peacetoday,
I was surprised that he came out to see what we were eating and that he actually ate and commented he like it.
I definitely will not ask if he wants to share anytime soon. I do not want to pressure him in any way. If the opportunity again presents itself, that is when he will be asked to join.
After knowing him so long, I can tell that he is still closed off. So I will continue with me.
PLC
Hi PLC. I just remembered another poster whose husband is making his way back...Grace21. She and I joined the forum around the same time in 2018. Her H actually moved out and in with OW but he has now moved out and they are starting to piece things back together. Her thread is called “Embracing Peace and Joy” I think. Embracing Peace and something anyway. You would probably find her thread helpful as well. Keep doing you!!! (((HUGS)))
Dejavu6,
Thank you. It is so nice that someone remembered to think of me. Today was ok with H.
However D25 mentioned joining the peace corps and would be gone two years if she gets in. Two years, if my marriage ends that she wouldn’t be around. My heart hurts, when she was across the country in grad school, it was still “close” she’s looking at Eastern Europe. She’s making plans, she should she’s young,
I just told myself, if she goes, maybe I’ll just leave my state and go start over somewhere new. My family can visit. I would not have to see H and I could be someone else if I wanted to. D25 can come stay when she’s back before she heads off to a career or family.
It’s just a hard day, and it isn’t him.
I’ll look up Grace21.
Thank you
You could go visit your D in Eastern Europe!
I think we have to Start Over many times in life
It is scary to think about leaving behind what we know and have
And our kids will leave and come back and leave again
we will always share a deep bond with them
What helps me to to visualize the future I want
Not the reality of what is-
think about my goals and dreams everyday, several times
It uplifts me
of course it has to be in a positive light
Last night, I started to look at different areas of the US where I could live. It gave me something to do.
I began envisioning what I would like in a home and the garden I would like to grow. It gave me control that I could figure this out if I had to.
I want our D25 to live a great life, I just didn’t figure we all might separate at the same time.
Today is a new day.