Hi All,
Here is the link to my last thread:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870688&page=1But, I think it is about time I move on to the Surviving the Big D Forum....it is my reality.
If interested, please find me there! Here is my new link:
Switched On
Calgon take me away! The few interactions I have with my ex are (still) quite something. Ownit - I have my own jack-in-the box!
Pax if you are reading, my ex opens his door just like yours does. I call him the Once-ler from the Lorax, ever lurking.
So, a few days ago I get a text from ex saying our dog has a gum issue, he sends a pic to his brothers wife who is a vet and he tells me the dog needs a cleaning. He offers to pay for it so long as I take him. I am suspicious. But then I feel guilty for being suspicious of his kindness. So I say thanks and agree. And I think: eureka he is growing up and we will be civil!
But I get home and something in me thinks: why would he offer to pay? So I look at the gum and it turns out the canine is cracked! I text a picture to the same vet (Ex sis-in-Law) and ask if she saw the whole picture of that area. And sure enough, he only showed the gum. Now; why would he do that you ask?
Well, get ready. He taught the dog to fetch rocks! Yup. And I told him this was awful and the dog needed a ball. Nope. He thought it was clever as he then taught the dog to play soccer with rocks using his nose and paws. Long sigh.
Ok, so I explain this to vet/ex sis in law and she says the rock cracked the tooth, it is infected, causing gum swelling. And I have noticed bad breath, loss of appetite and more sleeping. So I text ex and tell him sis-in-law saw full pic and this is not a mere cleaning and explain he is sleeping a lot and not eating well. I kind of thought maybe he was just getting old. I ask him to handle this as he caused it with this dumb rock game. Though I certainly was more delicate in my delivery.
This is where his maturity is really going to shine through. He tells me the dog does not sleep too much at his house and says lack of appetite and excessive sleep are probably due to him having to endure my company. Ahh, so mature. And then he tells me I am not allowed to talk to his sister in law! Hah. Seriously! Guess he thinks this is Saudi Arabia?!?! Um, and how do plan to stop that?
I ignore because I just cant believe this is where he is mentally. When you step away from this it is just jaw dropping to glimpse it again. But I forewarn ex sis that shell get an ear full from her hubby as my ex will be rip roarin mad that we have maintained a friendship. (She has long recognized something is wrong with my ex.). And she told her h to back off as she can have her own friends and is not to be controlled (you think?!?!).
Ex then texts that I need video proof of him playing this with the dog. And I just say: you know you did it, you know I did not approve nor did I play this with him, our kids know you did it and they saw it as well. There is right and there is wrong. (Guess he has yet to reach that developmental stage.)
He says it was cracked before we separated and I owe 1/2. I really do not want the dog in the middle of this. But I say, if that is the case, why did you not ask me to pay 1/2 in the divorce proceedings? If you had done so, I would have said this was your thing with the dog and you should take care of it as I had no part in it. The judge would have sided with me based on this and he would paid for it. And then I told him contractually we agreed no renegotiated past expenses. If we were married I would owe 1/2 for his moronic behavior but we are not.
One more glimpse of where he is mentally? A few weekends ago we pull into the parking lot for ss game at the same time. S is already at the court so he thankfully is not witness to this silliness. Ex speeds past me in the parking lot which is full but for 3 spaces right near each other. I pull into one. No sign of ex who pulled a NASCAR lap on me. Someone pulls into the spot next to me. I get out and see ex had pulled into the third one and is smirking, trying not to laugh as he speed walks past me.
You just cant make this stuff up! This is 5 years post BD and hell be 51 (still going on 17).
He's still out there! Be thankful he is not living under your roof any longer. That poor dog isn't feeling well because of the cracked tooth. Evidently, he didn't take the dog in for your former SIL to check him over before advising you that he had gum issues. What a putz!
Ha Who
Unreal-very sad
I think the only way they can justify their still unhappiness and poor choices is to throw it back at someone else
as if anyone can cause you to be unhappy or happy..peace , joy is an inside job
I hope your dog will be ok
what a stupid idea to allow the dog to play with rocks
Sad thing is do they ever snap out of it
I think on here we see more MLCers never coming back to reality
I wonder if some make it back?
Be curious to hear more of that
Good grief! Your poor dog! Im so sorry to hear of the cracked tooth. Poor pup! That makes me so mad!
And that instance in the parking lot..... its amazing all the things they do to give themselves perceived power. Just gotta shake your head.
Its incredible seeing grown men behave this way. My ex is going to be 50 in 4 months and he still acts like a man child. Truth be told, its sad and I feel compassion for these lost sous. Something is definitely not right with them.
Good luck this week. Hope you have nice plans for thanksgiving.
Good Morning HaWho
Sorry about the dog; poor little guy. I hope he gets fixed up and feels better soon.
You handled H really well. I really loved this part:
And then I told him contractually we agreed no renegotiated past expenses. If we were married I would owe 1/2 for his moronic behavior but we are not.
Lol.
What a goof H is.
And if he thinks he can demand who you or exsil can or cannot see, omg, he has so lost the plot.
You are standing tall and strong.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
DnJ
I'll drop over to you one of these days to say hi.
I'm glad you can handle such interactions serenely, calmly and strongly. Good on you.
Best wishes to you and your dog
And I think: eureka he is growing up and we will be civil!
I recently had the same thought about mine. NOPE!
This is where his maturity is really going to shine through. He tells me the dog does not sleep too much at his house and says lack of appetite and excessive sleep are probably due to him having to endure my company. Ahh, so mature. And then he tells me I am not allowed to talk to his sister in law! Hah. Seriously! Guess he thinks this is Saudi Arabia?!?! Um, and how do plan to stop that?
You know Ha, this is sooooo familiar, it's scary. Are you sure your exh and my exh aren't related?
I ignore because I just cant believe this is where he is mentally. When you step away from this it is just jaw dropping to glimpse it again.
YES. Just happened to me this month. Crisis with son, on phone exh was reasonable and helpful. I thought wow, finally! help is on the way. Then he flew into town and started similar behaviors to your madman. All I could imagine was a five year old throwing a major tantrum, as he yelled, screamed and chanted "I'm not listening to you I'm not listening to you I'm not listening to you I'm not listening to you." This from a 50 year old. It's shocking, isn't it?
Ex then texts that I need video proof of him playing this with the dog. And I just say: you know you did it, you know I did not approve nor did I play this with him, our kids know you did it and they saw it as well. There is right and there is wrong. (Guess he has yet to reach that developmental stage.)
He says it was cracked before we separated and I owe 1/2. I really do not want the dog in the middle of this. But I say, if that is the case, why did you not ask me to pay 1/2 in the divorce proceedings? If you had done so, I would have said this was your thing with the dog and you should take care of it as I had no part in it. The judge would have sided with me based on this and he would paid for it. And then I told him contractually we agreed no renegotiated past expenses. If we were married I would owe 1/2 for his moronic behavior but we are not.
One more glimpse of where he is mentally? A few weekends ago we pull into the parking lot for ss game at the same time. S is already at the court so he thankfully is not witness to this silliness. Ex speeds past me in the parking lot which is full but for 3 spaces right near each other. I pull into one. No sign of ex who pulled a NASCAR lap on me. Someone pulls into the spot next to me. I get out and see ex had pulled into the third one and is smirking, trying not to laugh as he speed walks past me.
You just cant make this stuff up! This is 5 years post BD and hell be 51 (still going on 17).
No dear one, you cannot make this up. Not at all. All I can say, since I don't want to hijack your thread with my own tales of horror, is this: I firmly believe that MLC is either a mental illness or part of a personality disorder, since so very many of these MLCrs display the same behaviors -
FOR YEARS. By my reckoning we are now 4 years and almost 8 months post BD, with definite symptoms apparent an additional two years before that. Today I believe my exh is never coming out of it. Heartbreaking really, since our son is so desperately in need of a positive male role model. I'm sorry to say that after holding exh in a compassionate space for years post BD, today I have zero compassion for what exh must be going through. Maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow, but today, no. I'm just too angry. I'm very grateful however that both you and I are free of these fools.
Thanks all; so thankful for this sounding board.
On the heels of what Job said, my ex is still out there. And like, Bttrfly, I dont see mine getting out of his funk.
I thought of what Westo wrote elsewhere; that one of the key reasons to detach is to try to shelter yourself from too long a list of disappointments that then make it hard to want to R. I no longer would want to R. Maybe for this reason; just saw too much in the years he lived with me and spiraled before my very eyes. It is hard to unsee that all.
I have limited contact with mine but from what I do see he is super stuck in anger and the past. Messages from him are a broken record. For a guy who wanted to move on and find himself and now has exactly my what he wanted, he is forever rehashing the past.
Nearly every communication from him is an opportunity to ooze anger and score petty points. I texted him yesterday asking him to pay his 35 for tutoring for son as he pays this while I pay something else. Tutoring was moved to my night this week so I asked him still to cover it and he told me it is my night so now I can cover it. This is not the way it is supposed to work but some people just need to win pointless battles. Then he goes into his usual mantra. He then told me he should not have to even pay for tutoring at all as he already pays me so much. Next: all I did was birth the children and nothing more. According to him I was useless after that moment. Then he told me I wasted money on lawyers when he wrote his own (very good- according to him!) proposal for settlement. Okay. The drumsticks are worn down from that drum he has been beating for years now.
It actually made me sad that he is stuck in this loop. And to think me asking him to pay 35 bucks is an opportunity for him to lash out. For the first time in a long while I considered addressing him somewhat in an attempt to push the stuck needle on the record. I wanted to say I was sorry he felt the marriage was such a loss for him. (Of course I have the gifts and cards proving he felt otherwise in the 14 years before BD.). I wanted to tell him I felt I needed to secure my own lawyer as he was no longer forthright with me: secretive; had a secret bank account, was dishonest about his comings and goings; basically that he was wildly unpredictable, etc.
Mostly though I wanted to tell him: it has been 5 years since you told me you needed freedom to find yourself. You have exactly what you wanted and you are still harping on the past. I have found peace and happiness and I wish nothing but the same for you. P.S. You wont find it with this death grip you have on ruminating on things that happened years and years ago.
Not sure why I feel the need to say this all. Maybe it is my way of ever trying to fix. I did not say anything in the end but it made me sad that he is not looking to the future. I see such bright days ahead of me and I was so devastated by his MLC.
How did I miss the post about the rocks. Oh my. So grateful that mine usually doesnt talk to me. Hoping we get back to that soon. Also, only cats and they dont see him (since he held them hostage two years ago). I think in this case you just have to wish him well in your heart. My guesshes seeing that he isnt happier and it is just something else that is your fault.
HaWho,
I agree w/OwnIt. Your h has been stuck for a long time and he sees that you and your sons are moving on w/o him and are living a nice and happy lifestyle. He's a miserable man who can't even get out of his own way because he doesn't know how to go about it. He is still in the anger and blame game mode.
You can't fix him because you didn't break him. Yes, it makes you sad to see that he's not looking to the future, but that is not your fault. He is the only way that can fix himself. All you can do is get out of his way and allow him to fight w/himself and one day, he just might hit that brick wall very hard and come to realize all that he has lost. Until then, live your life to the fullest and keep the focus on you and your sons.
Well, just when you think you have seen it all; get ready for this one.
On Friday ex sends me this rambling text telling me his life is private and to keep the boys out of it. I text back I have no idea what he is talking about as I never ask the kids about his private life.
He proceeds to tell me that he instructed the kids to keep it private and I should not hold it against them. And then he says he got married over the Christmas break!
He says the boys met her 14 months ago and approved of his decision (like they could be allowed to say no). He says they do not want to be grilled about her. He then tells me the woman in question, who, mind you, is his wife, is honorable. He says she will not be attending any of ss games so there wont be any awkwardness?!?! Love how he calls his wife the woman in question. Is she his wife or a suspect? He refers to her that way several times. And what kind of wife/relationship is this if she is not to attend ss games and this whole thing was kept secret?!? Is he ashamed of her? Scared to have her meet me?
Dont need to think too hard on that one. I know she will be young and someone he can control. I think by the timing they were having an affair all along. He ended up moving out of the house like it was on fire so I suspect she was the reason. I know they are two broken people clinging to each other.
Feel awful that my kids have been hiding this for so long under his direction and feel awful that I was not given the dignity of meeting someone so prevalent in my kids life. I know she is broken to agree to this life with him and now this broken woman sees my kids. I know I cannot control how he handles this situation and its not on me that he wants to keep his wife a big secret.
Trying to decide how to discuss this all with my kids when they return home in a few days. I want to ask them how they feel about all this and impact on them that such a thing should not be a secret and that this not the way you handle things for all involved. Also want them to know I am happy and they dont need to protect me, rather, I should have supported them.
My sisters both say the kids know what is up with all this and that it only will add to their understanding of how screwed up he is.
Just feel awful that my kids were subjected to all that so fast.
Well, I'd say it is shocking, but of course a hidden OW is not at all shocking. Every time I see a newbie who insists there is no OW/OM I just shake my head. We know they are going to pop up sometime/somewhere, don't we. These folks just don't chuck it all aside without something else in play. However, it is still WTF isn't it, that he would ask his children to keep this hidden from you.
I think the more interesting part is why he wants you to know now. Given that he has kept this from you all this time, why just blurt it out now?
My S is such a blabbermouth that he couldn't keep something like this from me. But I suppose yours has made it more difficult because he has remained involved with the boys and therefore they feel more obligated to protect him I guess.
I would probably say something like, dad has shared his big news with me. Would you like to talk about it? Maybe they will share their feelings. If not, I'd probably let them know that they are not required to keep secrets, even when asked to do so by their father, and if they are concerned or bothered about something they can always feel free to discuss it with you. If they don't want to, that's ok too.
I definitely think your kids get that dad is not right and that this is not a "normal" situation. My guess is that if it were giving them problems you would have found out about it. They have each other to help them try to process these things as well.
I'm sorry you are still having to deal with his crap.
Good Morning HaWho
Well that sounds about right for H. He is still an angry secretive teenager. Kind of a surprise, the over a Christmas marriage, till you think about it. He is so secretive; and MLCers like their drama.
His rambling text is par for the course. He is still confused and suspects everyone is plotting against him. You can take comfort that your boys are strong lads; not spilling the beans for so long. There is something to be said for not betraying a persons confidence. Of course I do suspect Dad wasnt the great role model and some of this is fear of reprisal as well. Still, lots of strength in those lads.
Remember not to believe everything (or anything depending on situation) a MLCer says. Maybe the boys met her 14 months ago, maybe not. H does have quite the ability to rewrite history and timelines to suit himself.
I would suggest not questioning the boys. As hard as thats going to be. Tell them about receiving a text from their Dad saying he got married over Christmas. Once they know you know, and they didnt tell you, much will come tumbling out. A few probing follow up question could be needed, if the ice doesnt break easily.
I do agree with you that his wife is probably the same gal that he ran out of the house as if it was on fire. However, she may not be. Who knows. Keep expectations and the guesses near zero; it will be revealed soon. Gosh thats a tough - good thing youre a strong woman.
Trying to decide how to discuss this all with my kids when they return home in a few days.
Discuss it gently.
Along with the previously suggested ice breaker. Most definitely, as you said, assure your boys that you are just fine and they do not need to worry about you. That was a big step for my kids; them knowing that Dads doing fine, well great actually. Kids do protect the betrayed parent, its something both parties need to get passed.
Validate their feelings and assure them its ok that they have a relationship with this woman. She is after all a person of importance in their Dads life. And therefore is someone of importance in their life - unwanted as that may or may not be to each of them.
That is also something I found very interesting, even though it is so obvious. Each child is their own person, and has their own heart and mind. Each of my four kids respond, feel, and accept their situation differently. Each of your boys will see their situation in their own light. I had to get to the place where it is ok for S23 to talk with OM, and S21 to not want to, as an example. Each view point is valid and ok. Your boys will not see this both the same way; similar most likely, just not the same.
The past is the past. I know you would have love to support your boys over the months. You can now! Start gentle and go from there.
That gift of time still exists.
DnJ
HaWho,
Well, the cat is out of the bag now! If he wanted to keep his life private, why blurt it out to you? Evidently, he can't keep his mouth shut and just had to tell you about his latest antic. If he did get married, I wish the two of them all the luck in the world...it is a match made in heaven because she's got to be a loco as he is.
I feel for your sons. They may have met her 14 months ago, but that doesn't mean that they knew she was his "real girlfriend".
I think I would wait a few days before saying anything to the boys. I would have a nice meal on the table, be sitting there eating and casually mention that you got an email from their father announcing his new marriage and then say, I wish them well. Then drop it. You don't want to ask them any questions about it, because they would then feel like you are trying to find out all of the dirt. If I know your sons, they will eventually come talk to you about it, but they need to do it on their timeline. They have to digest why their father said it was a secret and then announce it to you.
They know that their father isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer at the moment.
Glad he finally told you, so its a secret no more
I would probably mention that Dad mentioned he got M..I wish them well
and add on
Are you guys ok with that ?
keep it simple..
I know it seems like all they do really affects our kids but I still believe one strong stable parent is enough
Yes they may have extra stuff to sort through due to that MLCer parent
but
They can also learn what they don't want to be
from their role models and if aware
I believe they can break the chain
Good thing is it is out in the open now and they are free to share whatever is on their mind without judgement
Just a guess, but its possible that rambling reluctant message was because one of the boys put their foot down and said You HAVE to tell mom you got married.
Thank you all so much. I appreciate the advice.
KML - I think you might be right because looking back at the texts he was fishing to see if I knew.
I woke up this morning and resolved to make the next 5 years of my life amazing. This is not just for me, but for my kids. I am going to show them that while there are those lose the plot in their midlife others get wise and shift into high gear.
And years later they will remember that about me and I will tell them THAT is their DNA.
So thankful to have you all here for support.
Onwards and upwards always.
I imagine that no matter how detached you are and how obvious it is that H is broken and OW is a broken person (I would insert a variety of other nouns there but am trying to be mature), that it still must grind against your heart a little to get that news. So here is a hug from Gerda. (((HaWho))))).
What a solid foundation that couple is building. ?!
Ugh.
I don't understand why you would have to say, "I wish them well." I don't wish them well at all and I don't even know any of you personally! I certainly don't wish my H and his OW well. I wish she would go back to her H and kids and at least one family could get restored! I can't remember at the moment if it was you or OwnIt who told me that it was always good for me to transmit my values. It has really liberated me as far as talking to my kids. Sometimes it's hard to be sure I am saying something out of my values and not out of Pain Planet, but as a child of divorce I would find it confusing to hear my LBS mom say she wished them well. I'd rather hear her say, "It's a little painful to hear that but we'll be just fine and looking forward to lots of wonderful things in our life." Or something that would validate my confusion. I really liked my stepdad but I always found it all really awful and confusing and the fact that no one validated that made me feel really alone.
Thank you Gerda for that perspective. It really does help.
Truth be told, this has all been handled in such a truly dysfunctional manner, that I dont even know what and how much to say to my kids. But, I am not going to say I wish them well.
I am going to keep it to being about them-my kids.
Right now I think I need to say little and just create a space where I make it clear I am here to listen to how they feel are doing with all this. I would like to impart on them that keeping secrets from your parents should not be encouraged. I really want to say a marriage is not a secret, but I will bite my tongue.
He has emotionally strangled them by swearing them to secrecy and I want to begin by loosening the noose.
That sounds perfect Ha Who
Im sure it will work at as all things seem yo in time
I hope that she "looks at him meaningfully" LOL
Thanks Peace. You have such a warm comforting way about you.
Andrew - hah! *Love* that you remember him needing that. Sigh. My suspicion is she does look at him very meaningfully because hes her daddy. I bet she is 25ish. I know shes broken and will have come from a dysfunctional background. She has to in order to be attracted to who he is today. And if she is the one who he affaires with, oi vey to them!
(((HaWho))) Tough news regardless of where you are at in your sitch. But...definitely emphasizes the need to move forward and embrace whatever it is that life has in store for you. Could be better than you ever imagined. I agree with what others have said about your kids. Let them know that you know and that you are okay and there for them if they ever want to talk about it. It will be a relief to them to know that they dont have to keep things from you. Sending you lots of (((HUGS))) from across the miles.
Thank you Dejavu. Much appreciated.
So I found out who his wife is. She is 13 years younger. They married a few weeks ago which means ex was divorced and remarried in the same year. Here is the best part. She has the same first name as his dads mistress that he married! So ex really recreated the same childhood dynamic down to the same naked woman! And its not a particularly popular name?!?! So interesting.
Through sleuthing I determined she is the first OW he had and that he was cheating in the marriage with her. Hindsight is 20/20 and I am putting pieces together. Her fb page shows nothing for the last year. She went underground. No pics of her wedding to him. She is always alone with no one else in the pics. Weird. She looks thin, has fake boobs and her hair is fried; it is pretty clear she has an eating disorder. My doctor friend saw that and brought it to my attention based on her hair and look of her body.
Conversations with the kids was ok. Younger son said she is nice. Older son said very little.
I know what this means that he just jumped from one relationship to the next and married his affair partner. I Know they are broken and attracted for that reason. I know he ran to her to feel better.
We shall see how it plays out. Giving it over to God.
Oh. And my kids did not attend his wedding. It was private they said.
Uh huh. Real private for all the wrong reasons. What is done in the shadows eventually comes to the light.
Gosh hawho. This must be tough. I hope you and the kids are ok.
While it is unfortunate, I think some mlcrs have no choice but to marry their APs. Their actions are so shameful (whether they feel shame or not) that they have to prove to everyone around them they made the right choice in blowing up their lives.
Also, and this is just my novice belief, I actually think they get to the point where they continue to chase happiness and when they are looking for the next joyous moment, they remember times when they were happy in their former marriage so they attempt to recreate it by marrying the first person who will have them.
The fact that the wedding was private is very very telling.
Anyway, I really do hope you are processing it and moving the heck on with your peaceful life.
Good Morning HaWho
What is done in the shadows eventually comes to the light.
Oh, I love that. Its so true.
Im glad the conversation with your boys went well. Everyone is now in the know.
XHs W does sound broken. Two people desperate for happiness, and unable find the way.
And her with the same unusual name is an interesting coincidence. Well not completely coincidental; her name is just another aspect that XH was driven to. Subconsciously, unknowingly, recreating his childhood dynamic.
Its quite remarkable this process, the crisis, the path MLCer walks. Once the LBS gets beyond the pain and grief and sees what they witnessed. It is horribly traumatic to everyone involved. One side demonstrates the fragility of the mind, truth, and reality. The other side is an absolutely amazing display of how resilient, compassionate, and forgiving the human spirit can actually be.
Give it all to God.
You are very much choosing better not bitter.
I woke up this morning and resolved to make the next 5 years of my life amazing. This is not just for me, but for my kids. I am going to show them that while there are those lose the plot in their midlife others get wise and shift into high gear.
And years later they will remember that about me and I will tell them THAT is their DNA.
Amen to that.
DnJ
Anorexic - or possibly malnourished from some other disorder, like Crohns disease?
It wouldnt surprise me though if he ended up with an anorexic - wasnt he the one with the weird ideas about food and the paranoia that you would poison him? His food issues might mesh with hers.
HaWho,
I am very glad that the conversation w/your sons went okay. As for the "new" wife, he sure picked a winner and is definitely following the pattern of his father. He has done exactly what my xh did. It is truly sad how they go about their lives. It will be interesting to see if she posts on her FB page now that the cat is out of the bag.
You are doing so well and your sons will always know that you are there for them.
What is done in the shadows eventually comes to the light.
Or becomes compost. I think my ex is still working on keeping everything buried even though she lives with OM (as far as I know). She has her narrative so I understand. Maybe after all these years she actually believes it. Dunno.
While it is unfortunate, I think some mlcrs have no choice but to marry their APs. Their actions are so shameful (whether they feel shame or not) that they have to prove to everyone around them they made the right choice in blowing up their lives.
Agree with this quite a lot. I would also add that for many of them, there's not a lot of other choices out there either of people who have the shaky enough morals to have an affair along with the fact that most MLCr sorts tend to degrade physically and financially. There are of course exceptions to this. I remember musing when she was in the middle of her affair and keeping me hanging on the "who'd want her" and "he'll get tired of her and her nonsense soon enough". Turned out I was wrong though.
I expect that things will be very very tense for the man formerly known as Mr. HaWho and more so for his new Mrs as she struggles to keep hold of him and pretzel herself in to whatever it is that he thinks he wants that day.
My XH D and got M to OW 14 years younger a few months after the ink dried
they also M with very few in attendence
the shame of the affair and they had no real friends I guess
but you know how these stories go...
not very well for the MLCer
most seem to decline and decline more over time
Thanks all.
Pax - been thinking about your armchair diagnosis and yes, it makes sense they would be looking for legitimacy. Personally, I think no one attended because they dont have many friends. She has just a few contacts per social media, seems to have no family. And his own kids did not attend as it was private!
Yes, KML he is the one who had food/poisoning issues. Several people say she looks very much like me but rougher and sort of unhealthy.
Job, yes, I know. Patterns are uncanny.
Andrew - hah! Love your wit as always. But before it becomes compost doesnt it still come to the light?!?! Chicken or the egg question!
Peace - just curious, how long did that marriage last before they divorced? And was she the first OW?
Wow, do you think she'll let him keep his Christmas tree up until Father's Day? And does she listen with rapt attention to his songwriting efforts?
I can only imagine what a shock this was but honestly Ha ... you are soooo well rid of this mess.
Love your determination to make the next 5 years great ... wonderful legacy for your boys!!!! much love and light to you my friend xoxoxoxo
Ha Who
Because my XH left with No contact, I dont have accurate time lines
he does not keep in touch with his family either..
But I can tell you I received calls/messages over the years from various sources
that their M was in shambles and both very unhappy
They are both addicts still will no recovery, and A few years back a few close friends of XH called and spoke to him, upon his request,
several times..
They all confirmed to me, he wanted out of the M
But his once best friends could not help him
They felt that I he was unreachable , a real mess and his OW wife was absolutely nuts
they all let him go
I soon heard they soon got D, but Im not sure if they are back together
In My situation, I would --never say never,
but I am very doubtful XH will ever find himself again
For those who remember my exs obsession with XMAS (he kept an artificial tree in his self made dorm room through spring one year and played carols on Easter), I have a funny update.
I rarely pick up my kids from his place; usually he does the drop off, and enthusiastically so, probably to reduce the chance that Mrs. OW and I have a chance meeting. Heaven forbid we compare timelines. Wink wink.
Anyway, picked up my kids the other day and sure enough, there was a large decorative candy cane in front of his house still! And, in one of the living room windows I saw colored XMAS lights strung like it was a dorm room. Job, hope this gives you a chuckle!
Looks like he is still going through a special time in his life!
So thankful to be free of it all.
Okay...I just about died laughing. He's still into the holiday mode. Maybe he thinks the lights and candy canes will guide the Easter Bunny to his place in April! LOL! Some things may never change.
Lol - I was just going to ask you earlier about the Xmas tree!!!
Personally, I think no one attended because they dont have many friends. She has just a few contacts per social media, seems to have no family.
Oh wait - you mean he married a Russian bot???
I actually feel rather sorry for her based on this description. It sounds like he has "rescued" a poor little mouse who will be taught to be ever so grateful to him for every crumb and to never never never have her own voice.
I had to stop by your thread after my laugh tonight. Xw told me her tree was still up and she was going to the store for different ornaments Lol.
KYH - fascinating! Is there some store out there which services time warped MLCers so they can buy Christmas ornaments in mid-February? Maybe Easter ornaments in July, Halloween decorations in December, etc.?
I had to stop by your thread after my laugh tonight. Xw told me her tree was still up and she was going to the store for different ornaments Lol.
Wow.
KYH - fascinating! Is there some store out there which services time warped MLCers so they can buy Christmas ornaments in mid-February?
Lol there actually was one where I live but it closed. I used to wonder who went there outside of November and December haha.
I read about some new trend of people keeping their artificial trees up and decorating them for Valentines Day.
Strange times these are. We are 1 week into lockdown here in California. I know it is the calm before the storm. We are probably just behind NYC, I think.
My sister is an operating room nurse and has been for 30 years! She told me she had saved a few masks at the onset of this, in her locker. Today she said a coworker had a mask break, rubber band snapped. They are not changing masks between patients. She said that is the first time ever she has seen this. She says there is so much breaking of rules. Anyway, this nurse told her boss she was uncomfortable as her mask broke and there were no other ones available. My sister said had she known she would have given her a mask she had saved. The nurse without a mask was sent home. Things never before seen in the 30 years my sister has nursed. No fresh masks in elective surgery. If you have something elective scheduled; cancel!
She said anesthesiologists have it the worst. They are incubating patients reusing the same masks. This is in a non CoVid unit. These are elective surgeries. Surgeons decide if the surgeries go on.
As for lockdown, S14 is happy as a clam. S16 is ever antsy. He is ber social and hard to tire out. Reading about hospitals in NYC and following Ginger, I have had him read about hospitals there to understand the bigger picture.
Today I walked my dog to the grocery store. He was tied up outside and as I was paying, I looked outside to check on him and who do I see, but ex sitting and petting him. I saw him before he saw me. Then I saw him see me. But the windows were tinted so he didnt know I saw him see me. I paid and took my time bagging, stalling. I think he was waiting to see if the boys were there.
I had zero interest in talking to him. No nervousness but no interest either. He is just a person I used to know. It is hard to believe we once stood at an altar and pledged ourselves to each other. I stalled more as he still was sitting there. Ugh! Move on, would you! I felt nothing and the only thing I would want to say to him is, why did you have to make your mistress the step mom to my kids? So many women, why repeat the pattern of your dad?
I checked my phone and stalled even more. As I walked out of the store he walked in; relief. Two ships passing.
Total and utter indifference outside of him making his mistress my kids stepmom.
Sending warm hugs to you and your family. Keeping all of the medical staff in my thoughts and prayers.
It's always such a treat to see that you have been on. I hope things are going well with the new relationship.
I'm quite thrilled that mine lives almost an hour away. Very few sightings and less stalking than if he lived nearby. Did you feel the need to give the dog a bath? I considered that when mine was petting the cat for two hours (but the cat really hates baths).
These are hard times for sure. Lots of memories to the fore. Lots of worries for ourselves and those in our lives and communities. But I am trying to find the good (time with my kids being the biggest), take care of those I love, and help out as much as I can. This too shall pass. We don't know when, but we know it will.
Thanks Bttrfly and Job.
Ownit - no, did not feel the need to bathe the dog, hah! Actually I was surprised to see him out. Hes a hypochondriac so it took me by surprise that he was out and about without a hazmat suit. He is definitely on the panic side of these sorts of things given his tremendous fear of death. I kind of figured hed be living like the Once-Ler, you know, hidden in his house peeking through slats of the blinder.
As for the new relationship, in thinking about it, it is both very easy and very hard post marriage. It is easy because I come and go as I please; I sure do love that! This is especially true after the craziness I lived through the last years of my marriage.
Good news is this guy takes his Christmas tree down early January! (No Christmas carols play in March.). He is checking those boxes!
But, it is hard adding variables. He still has not met my kids. He agrees on this given the speed with which my ex introduced and married his mistress. So much change for my kids after so much stability.
These second relationships are hard in that we are not bonded over our kids in the same way as we were with the father of our children. Its just different.
He has two children. The younger one and I hit it off very well. He is 17. The older is a daughter in college. She is 19 and she is very unsettled in herself. I would say alarmingly so.
It was clear when I met his daughter that she is a daddys girl and was jealous that he was dating. (I definitely dont stand too close to any cliffs when I am around her.) I am the first woman he has introduced to his kids in the 10 years he has been divorced.
I feel like she works overtime not to accept me. She told Bs sister, her aunt, in front of Bs whole family that I take time away from their relationship. I was not present. I think she would not accept anyone. The aunt tried to tell her he devoted himself to them but they are growing up and has wants more in his life.
I give her lots of space. Mostly I DB her! She has a whole lot of growing up to do. She is more immature than the 17 year old. Honestly, she is less mature than my 14 year old.
Because the girl has often been without a present, stable mother, I think boyfriend overcompensated. I think he feels guilty she was without a mother and I think she takes advantage of it. His sister, in private said the same to me. It is pretty obvious. I do not say a word about the dynamic. But she is home now due to the pandemic and brings a storm of tension with her. She is not happy in herself. What has always been a calm house when she is at university is now rife with drama. She is difficult and makes most interactions so. Asking her to take a turn walking the dog causes code red like alarms. From her response you would think a defibrillator was needed. And because she overreacts to everything people avoid asking her to do anything. I have noticed his ex wife is the same so I wonder if this isnt learned behavior.
So yeah, complicated variables for sure. I find myself exhausted by her. Which is why its nice to come and go. And this all before my kids are folded into the mix.
Boyfriend, is 10 years out from his divorce. We get along well. We share a few hobbies which make spending time together easy. Well, that was back before we were in full lockdown! He has intimated he wants something long term with me. He even suggested marriage. Every single guy I have ever dated has done this. I was straight with him that none of that is anywhere on my radar. And no, I dont say that because I am playing hard to get. I am in date mode.
So thankful not to be living with an MLCer. Each day is a gift after that slog.
I'm glad to hear that it is going well and as usual you seem very level-headed in terms of how you are approaching this. Since you have boys, the D19 is probably a new experience for you. I have a D19 and can relate to a lot of the things you are describing here. I do think a lot of this is age and the way girls make that transition from childhood to adulthood. Mine will do great for days on end and the revert to bratty behavior for a bit. I think she just needs time accepting that dad has a life and when she finds her own, she'll be glad of it.
And because she overreacts to everything people avoid asking her to do anything.
BINGO.
Love your story and your strength. How are you doing during these interesting times?
Believe - I guess on the bright side, when we get through this we all sure do have quite a story to tell!
I am doing pretty well. So far we are healthy and ok.
On the post MLC front, things are sort of interesting. I was going to give an update.
My ex played Disney dad upon move out, due to guilt I am sure. He married his mistress a few months post divorce and so I know my kids know he was having an affair. When he moved out, I was having some behavioral issues with my older s who did not want to clean his room.
On three occasions my older s called my ex who picked him up to get out of cleaning his room! Disney dad to the rescue! I called my ex out on trying to be ss buddy rather than a coparent and father. And I finally called my kid out of his manipulative behavior and told him parents should not be picking up kids to get out of cleaning their rooms. It was a rough couple months with my kid. My s would leave to get out of doing chores and me ex would tell me I had to apologize to s if I wanted him to come back?!?! Apologize for asking him to do chores so he can come back and live here without lifting a finger? Uh, no thanks. Never apologized and s just came home after a few days of me ignoring it all. S came to me a few months ago and apologized and said he wanted a better relationship with me! He now cleans his room when asked!
Fast forward to this week. It is my exs turn to have the kids for Easter and their break. I had them last year. A few days before the break I learn from my kids that ex said they were with me for Easter and the break! How can ex not remember he did not have them last year? It is an extra 11 days.
So I tell the kids they are with him. I doublecheck the schedule even though I know I had them last year. This is where it gets interesting. My older son says we dont need to mention it to ex! He says they want to stay here. Well, well, well. Guess that Disney dad routine did not work out for him. I heard both kids quietly agree not to mention the mix up to their dad so they could stay here.
I was unsure of what to do. Should I tell ex? In the end I did nothing. It is exs responsibility to read the schedule and pick up his kids for his time. Part of me wonders if he really misread the schedule. Two kids in lockdown 24/7 with a new wife probably pops the romantic bubble. And his place is small. Ex would not order takeout due to pandemic so cooking will fall on his new wife who would be taxed to the max. My boys eat around the clock!
Guess it does not matter the reason. Just thankful to have the extra time with my kids. And yes, I do feel vindicated. His stupid Disney dad routine did not work. And as they get older I think they will understand more and more how nuts their dad went.
Thanks to KML who always said the kids act out on the safe parent and to wear it like a badge.
Oh, and at last drop of ex still had a decorative holiday candy cane outside his door! Maybe he does not realize it is Easter time Job!
HaWho, you are right that your xH should have been responsible enough to check the schedule. It's good though that you get extra time with your kids. They do grow way too fast and are soon out of the house. I know as my S is a senior and will be heading off to college in 4 or 5 months. My stomach hurts just thinking about it. But I know that they need to have their own lives. Just cherish each day and each moment. Even when they are acting up or driving you nuts. Be the good parent you are and continue to remember the moments. It matters. It's one way that I am doing self-care. By being present when in the presence of my kids. They like to do their own thing, but even in passing if they let me kiss them or tell me they love me... i hold on to it.
It's funny, even at my age, I know my parent look forward to me reaching out and communicating with them. I am building that bridge with my kids so i have that when they grow into the amazing adults I know they will be. How do I know? Because they are the best kids in the world. I am just hoping this experience with their H will not create a new pathway for them down the road. I don't want to pass MLC on to either of my beautiful kids... nor have them commit to someone who may have it.
But then, we can't protect them from everything. All we can do is try to be great role models and be there when things get tough. Sending blessings!
Hey girl, how have things been going with that guy youre dating? Everybody still healthy in your world?
KML - thanks for the reach out! I was just thinking of you because I remembered something you suggested to me in the midst of my exs MLC and I wanted to tell you I am pretty sure you were right.
A few years into our marriage I accidentally cut the back of my calf, an inch long cut but not deep. My ex was all over this and kept suggesting I see someone to fix it as it would scar. And even after it did scar he was always on me to fix it. It was bizarre to me as it was no big deal. I never even see it as its on the back of my leg! I remembered it only because my new guy, when he saw the scar, said what a great scar! Whats the story behind it? And that was so vastly opposite to my ex who always, now I realize, wanted me perfect. And this was something you picked up on.
Yes, all are healthy in my world, thank goodness.
I am still dating the same guy. We have taken up biking as that is Covid friendly. We were up to 40 miles/week, spread out over 3 bike rides. I am down in SoCal like you, but further south I gather. So we usually bike from Carlsbad to Leucadia, order take out and bike over to the beach where we eat on a park bench. He brings a speaker that he puts on his bike (where the water bottle goes) and throughout we listen to a great playlist he puts together. Last week, the music drew a few other bikers to stop by our bench, pause by the ocean, strike up a conversation with us and thank him for providing the vibes.
He is an easy person with whom to get along. I am thankful for that after my ex.
This week one of our pickleball courts we play at opened up. We have come back to the courts and play w/masks. That is no easy feat. But it is great seeing friends again and I am just thankful to be able to play.
The guy has kind of joked about marriage, saying my sisters will want him to put a ring on it someday and I have joked back saying no, that is the last thing my married sisters would want as in fact they are jealous of my freedom! No Disney view of marriage being the be all end all to happiness is happening here! After running what felt like a three legged race with a maniac of an ex, I quite like the arrangement of having the freedom and flexibility to come and go as I please. Plus my support is quite solid from my ex and I have zero interest in tampering with that.
He intimates maybe we will live together in the future. It is just not on my radar. I am happy as is. I married too young and was quite sheltered as a teen so I have no interest in being bound again. Plus blending families is complicated. Plus support. I want to keep things light.
As I have mentioned in the past his son and I hit it off. The boy is grateful for anything I do for him and it makes it easy to want to do more for him. The guys daughter who is 19 is a little tougher. And sadly, there is some trauma there from her mom which makes me have a lot of compassion for her. This r has taken more work on my part. I have tried different strategies to try to build something with her. She works overtime not to accept anyone into her dads life. When I say something funny and everyone laughs she actually works hard not to laugh. Poor thing is cutting off her nose to spite her face. And losing the joy of laughter to boot!
But things have improved. Just before Covid struck, she had a friend over who cooked us all an amazing vegan meal. This friend was a few years older and vastly more mature. She took the time to get to know me over the meal. And we really hit it off. Actually, I can get along with most anyone which was a sharp contrast to my ex who always had people that avoided socializing with him.
Anyway, the friend stayed visiting for a weekend and we saw her for a few more meals. The daughter left to go be by herself during the meals and my guy, this friend and I sat around laughing and talking. At one point he went and asked his daughter why she was by herself and she said no one was paying attention to her. She is quite immature. He told her she needed to make her presence known as none of us were going to beg her to join us. She opted to stay by herself. Her loss. But when the friend left the daughter did. become warmer towards me. Something changed. Either she saw that I am no witch as her friend and I had no difficulties getting along or maybe her friend even told her some positives about me?
Since then things have been easier with her. Theres really no reason for things to be strained other than her creating them.
I still have not introduced my kids to him. I just feel they needed a lot of time to heal especially given that my ex married his mistress before the ink was dry on the divorce. Sheesh. I am thinking maybe end of the summer? And I do want to show them a different sort of man and a contrast to the r my ex has with his mistress/wife. Pretty sure he got a you g thing he can boss around. My ex has gotten quite machismo and opinionated and insecure. This guy is very secure and has no desire to assert his ego into situations. It would be good for my two boys to see that kind of man. And its refreshing!
I have a friend I see weekly or so for walks (6 feet apart with masks) or we meet at one of our houses and sit outside 6 feet from each other. She is part of my quaranteam.
All in all, things are pretty good so far.
HaWho -- I am always glad to see you post. I came late to your story and still haven't read all your threads but we seem to have so much in common in MLC world -- and I always just liked you so much as a person in your posts!
I wanted to ask you something but I don't know if it's better in my own post, so I will post it in both and if you ever have time to answer, you can answer wherever is better for you.
I am thinking a lot about my past with my H, and I was thinking about your sitch too -- as once someone said something to you about how it seemed like your H had a psychotic break of some kind, in addition to MLC. I always thought this of mine too. But lately I am sifting a little bit through some of my past with my H because he is conducting such a horrifically vicious divorce (to the point that I wonder at times if he is capable of violence) that I started to wonder if there were seeds I missed along the way. For one thing, I started to think about how his obsession through MLC was over money and thinking I was hiding his money or controlling it, etc. but with no basis in reality. Looking back over the years, I realized I could not say that this seed wasn't there from our first days dating. I realized that when I met him, he was deeply in debt and had run up a huge debt on his mother's credit card to pay tuition. His father had just found out and he and his mom were in big trouble about it. It caused a real rift with his already estranged father -- and his wounds are all father-based. During MLC once I found the OW's credit card info scrawled in a notebook, he had already convinced her to pay for something -- this pattern of convincing people to help him out of his financial messes. He convinced his friend, the godfather of our kids, to PAY FOR HIS DIVORCE LAWYER!!!
Once we were a couple, I helped him pay off his debts -- not with money, but I mean by organizing payment schedules for him, etc. Early in our relationship, I remembered that I had paid off ALL my debts, including student loans, and I felt so free and so light. I was a teacher, not making much, and had gone to grad school that I had to pay for most of, but I worked a lot, and I was very frugal. And then the blur of my life with him began and it was a life of financial risk that got us into property ownership and businesses but that kept us in debt. He was always talking about what a whiz he was but looking back, I realized it was always me who made things happen, he had ideas but no facility with money. He would never do bill paying stuff with me, wouldn't help with taxes and would freak out whenever I tried to explain financial realities, even before MLC. Once MLC hit and he stopped working, started stealing money from our biz and our home, all financial reality checks would end with him screaming to sell our house, so I stopped telling him anything, and he began saying I was hiding and controlling all money, even if I did try to show him again and the house-selling-yelling would begin again. We own two properties and both mortgages are in my name only because his credit was so bad -- our rental place upstate doesn't even have him on the deed! I realized he never worked to get out of debt, let alone to buy me something I needed, like a coat, and was always pushing us to the next thing. This is just one example, and I don't want to believe the history rewriting either, but I can't deny this truth. And I have started to wonder if he was always NPD and that I just had my own wounds and didn't see it. I know he was different, looked different, acted different, but I have started to wonder if there was some mental illness all along, and it was so much like the mental illness in my house growing up that I somehow was drawn to it without realizing it was the same.
So I was wondering if you have had thoughts like these about your H and whatever his big issue was, that the seed was there all along, or was it a complete alien to whom you had known.
I don't mean to obsess over the past, but I am sifting in order to understand my own wounds and the choices I made, so I wanted to ask you about it, as our sitches have been so similar and even started around the same time.
It's been so long since I updated. But I think of this place and you all very often.
Quick recap on the last 6 months of my life:
I caught Covid in late June. I was sick at home for a month. I had a very painful headache that lasted for nearly a week, mild fever for a night, lost my sense of smell for 5 days, had very painful muscle cramps (like someone was stabbing my calves), fatigue, brain fog, shortness of breath (this was the worst symptom) and a cough that lasted 3 weeks. Thankfully, all symptoms did pass. My heart goes out to those who were not as fortunate.
My younger son caught MRSA a little over a month ago. His dad had him that day and had taken him to a drop in clinic (out of network!) at onset of symptoms thinking it was just an infected cut. He was given an antibiotic that was supposed to reduce swelling by 20%. In the AM, the swelling had doubled. His dad brought him back to that same out of network clinic, wracked up a 600 bill and called me in a panic to ask where he was supposed to go. I told him what place was covered and he asked me to come handle it all as he was frustrated and clearly in over his head. I said gladly. He seemed very frazzled. He fears hospitals and aging and sickness.
I took my son to the ER where we learned it was MRSA and he was hospitalized for 5 days. Thank goodness he received wonderful care by a team with an amazing infectious disease, internal medicine and ortho surgeon. I slept alongside him on a small but quite comfy bed. Because of Covid I was not allowed to leave or re-enter the hospital. I was the only guest in the entire ward (because he was a minor I was allowed; VERY thankful for that). I was allowed to go to the cafeteria as it was in the same building, and thankfully offered me a nice long walk where I would go get ice cream and other such treats for my son. Most heartbreaking was all those patients who did not have the ability to have visitors.
While I was there caring for my son I was texting updates to their dad. We have zero contact normally. During this time he said the first nice thing he has said to me in 6 years. Well, sorta nice. It still was padded with an insult. He said "even though I can be a b!tch, I am so glad you are the one there with him." I wrote back and told him no one had ever said I was a b!tch, even his own family said I was amazing. And that is the truth. Everyone, even people in his "camp" say I was a saint. And I told him I was so happy to be able to take care of my son.
Somehow he then proceeded to bring up how much I spent on a lawyer during our divorce, as though I am the first woman ever to secure counsel during divorce. Ha ha. For the first time I called him out on his affair. I told him he has some nerve complaining about me protecting myself from him and all the spending he did on his mistress. I told him he was a liar and a cheater and the best thing I ever did was hire a lawyer to protect myself from who he had become. I also told him he was a mirror image of his dad who had a MLC and married his affair partner who even had the same name. I wasn't mad, just fed up with his inability to see himself for who he had become. At one time he understood that what his father did was wrong and hurtful to many, many lives. He is not one to point out any faults in others. And I was tired of staying silent at all of his nonsense. He didn't say much back. Did not defend himself. If offered me some closure to call him out.
My dog was diagnosed with a terminal tumor last week. Heartbroken. He lived to full life expectancy and was healthy to the end. Vets said to put him down within two weeks. Ex and I agreed on that Friday. Saturday AM I woke to the most bizarre text convo from him. He had copied the kids on it, too. He sent me a super long, rambling text saying he was not going to put the dog down as he seemed happy and was now just an old dog?!?! He said if we just treated him as old, he could live like this for months. Did he just forget that we sought 3 different opinions and all vets said the same: he has two weeks at best. One vet is his sister-in-law! From there conversation became super weird.
I waited a day and texted back that the issue was not just that our dog was old. The issue is he has a really large tumor that causes fluid to build up in his lungs, his breathing will grow increasingly labored, he suddenly had no appetite, was losing weight fast and was sleeping a lot. And I reminded him all three vets gave the same independent diagnosis. I knew this would be hard as he is so afraid of death.
He texted back that the dog just ate a huge meal. Then one minute later "actually he did not eat much." Huh? Then minutes later he said "his breathing is great!" And less than one minute later, "actually he is short of breath." Huh? I suppose he was struggling with denial.
I reached out to his sister-in-law and again asked her opinion. She said even if the dog was very sedentary, there was a good chance he could die gasping for air as the tumor was on his lungs and she said that would be painful. I told ex that. I said it might happen when the kids would witness it. It was be painful for the dog and scarring for the kids.
He lashed out and told me not to contact his family or else he would reach out to my sister! My sister-in-law and I text very frequently. We are friends. (And good luck on reaching out to my family!)
I wrote back "go ahead! Do you think there is anything you can tell my family that will make them stop loving me? I love them unconditionally and vice versa. What is sad is how you deploy the same emotional blackmail that was deployed on you as a kid." And it really is sad how dirty he fights. Even sadder is that he learned it from his own mom doing it to him. He wrote back that he was kidding and just trying to lighten the mood. I said "I don't believe you were kidding because you have often gone really low like this." He then told me he was a saint for dealing with me. I said no one ever said he was saint, not even his own family. And I told him to look back at this conversation and ask himself if a saint would threaten to call someone's family and try to turn them against a family member. He is no saint. He needs a truth tranquilizer.
He said let's stick to the dog. I said I was and told him look back at convo and see who brought emotional blackmail and family in it. He did not answer. He is the fire starter.
A few hours later he agreed again to put the dog down. And we did so last night. He passed away peacefully.
When we were at the hospital ex said he wanted the ashes when speaking to the nurse. Later he asked me if I wanted 1/2 the dog's ashes. I said no. I know the remains are important to some. My sister holds her dog's ashes near and dear. It just does not happen to provide me any comfort. He turned to go back to the person he was speaking with but he before he got there he came back and asked if I wanted to bring the ashes to the ocean. I said no. I was confused. Did he mean together? Or he would give me some of the ashes? He seemed to want me to help him make a decision about ashes I did not even want.
I remembered when his grandmother died and we went to visit her grave for the first time. He was well into MLC and years into bomb drop. When he thought I wasn't looking he took some of the dirt from her grave and put it in his pocket. Just odd.
It was sort of strange to be with him when we put my dog down; like being with a stranger. I was there for the dog. I felt no need to comfort him or to have him comfort me. That ship has long sailed and I have no interest in who he is today.
After my dog passed I said goodbye to the front desk gal and nothing to him. It should be strange given we vowed ourselves to each other. But it is not any longer. It's stranger to think of him as anything more than a stranger.
Though it's been a tough few months, I am well as are my kids.
Wow HaWho, just nuts. I can't share anything about my situation for now, but I can say that I can relate with what you have dealt with. The lengths these folks go to in order to justify their choices, actions and behaviors and to vilify the LBS in the process is just extraordinary.
I'm sorry for all the difficulty you have experienced, but it sounds as though you have handled it with your usual aplomb. I hope things are continuing to go well with the kids, your fellow, and that Covid is a one-time through kind of thing.
Oh wow, HaWho. What a time you have had. Im so glad to hear that you and your son were able to recover from
Your illnesses. Both are super scary to deal with it and Im sure it was stressful.
Im also so sorry to hear about the dog.
Yup, your ex is in crazy town. Just nuts... and how exhausting it must be. I empathize. I have no words of wisdom except continue as you have been. Youve been extraordinary through all these years of chaos.
Thank goodness you and your son are ok.
Ignore the crazy ex as best you can. Glad to hear you have a nice new guy to spend time with.
wow! what a crazy few months!! I'm happy for you that you and your son are okay.
I enjoyed these two paragraphs -
It was sort of strange to be with him when we put my dog down; like being with a stranger. I was there for the dog. I felt no need to comfort him or to have him comfort me. That ship has long sailed and I have no interest in who he is today.
After my dog passed I said goodbye to the front desk gal and nothing to him. It should be strange given we vowed ourselves to each other. But it is not any longer. It's stranger to think of him as anything more than a stranger.
Strange indeed how relationships evolve. It is nice to have this strange man become nothing more than a stranger to you.
So sorry to hear about your health struggles and your puir pooch. You did the right thing by easing his journey over the Rainbow Bridge.
You sound strong and comfortable in your own skin. A good place to be.
((HaWho))
{{{{{{{HaWho}}}}}}}
i'm glad you've recovered and that son is on the mend. I'm very sorry about your furry friend.
The ex? King of Loontoonia Mountain. Long may he reign, well away from you and yours xoxoxoxo
I am glad that you returned to post an update. You and your family have had a very difficult time the last 6 months or so. I'm glad you've recovered from Covid. I'm also glad that you were able to stay w/your son while he stayed in the hospital. So glad that all of you are now well.
However, I am very sorry about your dog. I remember how you use to talk about your dog and what a wonderful fur baby he was. He's now crossed over the Rainbow Bridge and will be there waiting for all of you when the time comes. It was the humane thing to do to put him to sleep. He would have suffered a lot in the last two weeks of his life.
As for your xh...he's still out there and I am afraid he has joined the ranks w/my xh...in Never, Never Land.
I think of you and your sons often and pray that 2021 will be a better one for all. May we all find some peace and stay safe and healthy.
Hello HaWho
Its wonderful to hear how you are doing. Im very glad you and the boys are healthy and happy.
Condolences regarding your dog. It was the right thing to do.
And wow, XH is still out there. Its very good to have all that behind you.
HaWho, you sound strong and well. Of course you always sounded like that.
D
Hi All,
Its been some time since I updated.
Well, most noteworthy is I sleep again! After the years with live-in ex running around in MLC and then the stress of the divorce, I had many, many years of being up 1/2 the night. Within the last month this has changed and Im having a love affair with sleep.
My kids are doing well as am I. My older son is starting to get some acceptances to college so pressure is lifting. He has decent options. We miss our dog so much. I still come into rooms looking for him in his usual spots. Its still so painful not to have him here.
I started a new, old job a few months ago. In December I was updating my profile on LinkedIn when up popped a job from my old company from the east coast, but the job was here in SoCal. I searched and could not find they had an office here. The next day I googled and saw there was an old coworker still there on the east coast so I called to inquire. They were acquired and hiring in SoCal. I said I was interested. He told me he was now head of my old department on the east coast and he would like to hire me back into the group! So now, after 20 years I am back. I work 100% remote and am back to earning what I made before I mommy tracked.
I have not heard from ex in a few months (probably the reason I sleep again). He sent me an odd text when the variant strain of Covid was surfacing. In it, he said was sending this message as a friend. And he said he thought the message would help me. Then he proceeded to tell me of some ways to prevent getting the variant strain of Covid. It was long winded, like an email instead of a text.
At first I was surprised as it seemed thoughtful and kind. I mentioned it to my sister and she immediately said, hes just worried you will catch it and pass it to the kids causing him to get it. We both died laughing. It actually makes sense. He would be one to care most about himself above even his own kids.
I was going to write something quick back but then I forgot to do so. Theres a sure sign of healing: he is an afterthought, if that. And when I remembered I had not answered, I considered writing a response then but decided I actually did not want to do so. I have zero interest in a friendship with him. I am happy with zero contact. The peace and quiet is lovely. And he is no friend to me. Hes a stranger I dont know. I did joke that going forward if he offers me continued advice via text, I would like to respond with one word: -UNSUBSCRIBE-
All in all, life is good. I am still seeing the same guy. He is very kind and does not like confrontation. He gets along well with people. He is positive and easy going. He had his own very tough divorce so he too just wants peace and quiet.
Hope you are all healing and practicing lots of self care. It does get better.
So now, after 20 years I am back. I work 100% remote and am back to earning what I made before I mommy tracked.
That's SO great!!! Congratulations!
Also, I think your sister was right on the money about your ex's motivation - he doesn't want to catch Covid from the kids. (Not that I blame him, but with his OCD and germophobia this pandemic must be driving him even crazier than he was!)
So now, after 20 years I am back. I work 100% remote and am back to earning what I made before I mommy tracked.
And just like that, balance is restored to the Universe. Awesome! TY for the great update. My faith needed something like this right about now. xoxoxo
All in all, life is good. I am still seeing the same guy. He is very kind and does not like confrontation. He gets along well with people. He is positive and easy going. He had his own very tough divorce so he too just wants peace and quiet.
Hope you are all healing and practicing lots of self care. It does get better.
Hi HaWho, Nice to meet you. I have read some of your threads, what a journey you have been through!
Always good then to see you came out with such strenght!
Happy to see you also found love again. Good luck to you!
Hello HaWho
Congratulations on the new job.
I love reading about you getting good night sleeps. That is a good sign, along with forgetting to reply to XHs text. Lol. You are doing so wonderfully. Whole and healed.
Wow, oldest son is going to be going to college. How exciting for him, and you.
And I know what you mean about looking for the dog to be in their usual spot in the rooms. (((Hugs)))
Im glad for the wonderful life you have crafted and the peace you have found. Hard earned and most deserved.
D
I am so glad that you returned and posted an update. Congratulations on the new job! I can't believe your oldest son is going off the college very soon.
You have come such a long way from the frat boy in the basement and the fake palm trees and Christmas trees. You have earned a gold start and an award for dealing w/so much along the way.
I am so very happy for you and your sons!
Thanks KML, Bttrfly, Eagle, DNJ and Job.
Just a super quick post to say that today I learned my ex and his wife (she was his affair partner) divorced a few months ago.
In his typical dysfunctional fashion, I assume he swore the kids to secrecy against saying anything to me. He kept his wedding and divorce a secret from me. These folks are weird and live much of their lives in the shadows.
S15 made JV basketball and games just resumed a few weeks ago. Ex sits very far from me but the last two games he came over to a wall near me and when he leaned against it I noticed he was not wearing his wedding ring. (He was wearing it pre Covid. I have not seen him for a about a year due to Covid lockdowns.). At the next game, he came over to that same wall towards the end of the game and no wedding ring again. Thats when I thought something was up.
My sister-in-law texted me and I mentioned he was not wearing a ring and she said told me they were divorced a few months ago. She overheard exs conversation with his brother (my ex).
The saddest thing is he uses a lot of scare tactics and my kids have not said a word about it. I want to talk to them about this. I feel so bad for all the craziness he has introduced into their lives.
Guess it wasnt all rainbows and lollipops over there. What a shock that a marriage founded on an affair lasted so short a time. Not sure they even made it to the 2 year mark...
Anytime he passes me at ss games he looks at the ground. He makes zero eye contact with me. He really blew everything up for her. He told me she was an honorable woman when he did finally tell me he married. Yeah. Suuuuure. Wink, wink. Two lost souls that attracted each other.
It aint all peaches and cream for them...
Yup. Wherever they go, there they are.
True.
He filed June, 2020, 6 months after their marriage. Covid lockdown had to be the death of it. The Christmas tree was probably still up, Job. LOL!
As KML said, that marriage did not fix what ailed him.
For months after that I referenced her in texts about FAFSA and s17s college financial applications. Legally her salary was to be included. And he never once said he was no longer married.
Too proud to admit it failed. I am sure all the romance dwindled in lockdown with two teens. LOL.
I am not surprised that this MLC marriage didn't work out. Once the "glow" of a secret marriage, etc., has become dull and boring, that is win things begin to crack. Some marriages that come out of affairs will last, but the question I always have is "are they really happy w/their new found lives and w/themselves for deceiving others"?
He can't look at you because he knows darn well what he has put you through and continues to put your boys through. He knows darn well that you were the best wife, companion and friend that he had. He blew it all up for that "high" he got from sneaking around and being w/that woman.
You have shown him that you've taken the high road and continue to do so. His loss is his to own and he will live w/that regret for the rest of his life. He may never say he is sorry, but he truly regrets what he's done.
Thanks Job. Those are reassuring words.
In my inner thoughts I dont always take the high road. The two divorces happened almost within a year of each other (15 months!). I DO want to ask: did you get a BOGO from your divorce lawyer? (BOGO = buy one get one free for those of you unfamiliar with what may be a US only shopping term).
Wow. Cannot believe what a classic MLC story he is living.
Lol. BOGO.
I never heard that term before. Haha.
He is a classic MLC character in a very sad story. One of many. I often wonder which of the multitude of these lost and troubled souls will awaken and face their inner torment; rather long odds unfortunately.
I have a suspicion he is trying to work up the courage to apologize (sort of).
Vindication is kind of good isnt it? Even though his words, thoughts, and actions really do not make or break your life. Still, to see his story unfold along predictable lines is interesting. And dare I say, even hopeful, for him.
D
Honestly, there IS vindication in it, DNJ. He kept telling me how miserable our marriage was. Surrre. The marriage was SO bad you went out and got remarried in a hot second. Thats just what logical people do at the end of a terrible marriage.
I dont want anything to do with him; too many years of lying and deceit. And he really put me through hll. He put us all through it. I am far from perfect but that guy is just a fundamentally difficult person.
Sometimes I still cannot believe how crazy he went. How ironic it is that he repeated his dads story: married his affair partner who even had the same name as his dads affair partner.
The funny part is that hes been single longer after his marriage that lasted less than 6 months than he was single after his marriage that lasted 18 years. He remarried 9 months after our divorce was finalized!!!! I fully was expecting to see an MLC baby being born over there...
Its sure nice to be clear of that confusion.
I total understand you not wanting anything to do with him. I much agree, he is a difficult person. My pondering is just a theoretical wondering where his rock bottom is, and if he might be close to hitting it or not.
Something Job said had me wondering about how those in MLC work through their issues. My ex and his affair partner/wife # 2 divorced within 6 months of the marriage. If, as Job says, it wore out once the glow and high of sneaking around burned out, how does the MLC person continue to work out their issues when that person disappears so fast?
I would think they would need to be together longer for him to really move on from why he chose her? After all, usually the first year of a marriage is full on honeymoon stage. Of course, I have no idea how long he was sneaking around with her. It would not surprise me if the emotional attachment was not forged in 2015. We D March, 2019. He remarriage her December 2019 and they divorced June 2020.
I am no longer interested in R, but still very intrigued by MLC. Any thoughts?
I think that many of what we call MLC people keep chasing after their rainbows and the next "high". Running from their past rather than toward a future.
I'm pretty confident that my own ex has settled in to her new life despite following much of the playbook even down to the obligatory tattoos. Must come with the kit. On the other hand, how many other options does she perhaps have? She's not rich, she's not young, she's decent looking but nothing really special. She wouldn't be able to "trade up" like men like your ex perhaps expect to be able to do. She's more or less trapped where she is.
I think that many of them lack the self-awareness or courage or both to be able to face their issues and I expect that some like your own ex regard themselves as not having issues but the rest of the world being the problem.
If we go back to what is "canon" for MLC - they go down their paths until they hit rock bottom and then climb back out. But what that narrative doesn't speak to is that it is always possible to dig a hole deeper. There's a country music song "Can't dig out of the hole" - but most people don't see that.
Are they content? Can they ever be? Doubtful - otherwise they wouldn't have run off in the first place. The very few reunification stories I've ever encountered show that even if history doesn't repeat that the lives of themselves and those around them are in turmoil and uncomfortable.
My ex-wife had and presumably still has a lot of anger issues and would rage about how unfair and horrible that the people she worked with / dealt with were. Your's had a basket full (or perhaps basket-case full) of control issues and phobias that he projected on the rest of the world. To us when we are in the midst of building a relationship with them, we try to accept this as a "normal" - it's only from the outside that we see how distorted it is.
And I can certainly say - that from my experience with entitled and narcisistic people, they only get worse with age. What is charming and quirky at 30 becomes disturbing. My ex-father in law who my ex-wife was much like was a charming and friendly man who also incidentally had multiple affairs. When he was older though, he was just a creepy old man who took no responsibility for anything around himself.
HaWho,
They may have been together for quite some time before marrying. Once the glow of the honeymoon stage dimmed, life began to take hold, i.e., bills to pay, jobs to work and...don't forget that during the pre-marriage some people are on their best behavior and once the ring is on the finger, then it's not long before the real self comes out to play. MLCers are very good at playing the victim and/or the good guy/gal, but all of that can change if they know that they have reeled in a partner who is willing to marrying them.
I would venture to say that he will hook up w/someone else. Some do this and others will travel the road of self by being by themselves. There are those who don't have affairs and/or marry affair partners and yet they seem to manage to work on their issues and some do come out the other side okay. It all depends upon the person, their personality and childhood issues. Your h could be one of those who will always play the victim and cry "poor me" to anyone that will listen. Time will tell now that the marriage is over.
Thanks Andrew and Job. Job, I think you are right and hell find another quick band - aid/gf or wife #3.
Boy oh boy is this just weird. My ex married his affair partner and asked my kids to keep it all secret from me. They never discussed her at all. My younger said she was nice. My older son never said much. Ex married her 9 months after our divorce. Not sure how fast he moved her in as everything is a big secret there. (Which if youre hiding major parts of your life like this, that really speaks volumes.)
Anyway, as I just learned that marriage ended short of 6 months. S17 now has his first gf, and theyve been dating for a few months now. His first high school romance is close to outlasting exs second marriage. LOL!!!
Anyway, kids of course were told to keep the divorce a secret from me, too. So dysfunctional. I talked to them each separately and received some bizarre answers. When I told S17 I had heard ex and his wife divorced and asked how he was doing with it all, he blew it off with a its no big deal and a shrug. I asked what happened and he said they just split. Easy come, easy go, I guess?!?! Messed up. I did tell him marriage takes time and work. Its not something to be entered into or broken easily.
When I checked in with S15 I received a really bizarre answer. He said he was fine with it all and she was really nice. I asked what happened and he said they got along great, never fought. His dad told them he was ending it to spare them from going through this all again? Not sure what that meant and s15 could not or did not want to clarify. S15 did it slip that though s17 said he was ok with it all, he later told his dad he was not. And s15 said dad did it for s17. They know she was his affair partner. He did not set her up to succeed.
I did tell s 15 that people dont divorce if things are going great and so there had to have been problems. (Otherwise wed all be divorced on our honeymoons!) It scares me that he is drinking that Kool Aid from exs well. And a d in under 6 months says something went very wrong very fast. To the point that they did not bother working on it.
So concerning to have all this written into their FOO story now. I have so much anger for all my ex has written into their lives.
By the way, ex caught strep throat so something tells me he is out and about hunting for wife 3. My kids did not give it to him and he does not go into an office. With mask mandates everywhere, methinks he is on the prowl once again.
Just wanted to report how weird these people get. The secrecy is astounding; a whole life in the shadows.
Im doing ok. Just trying to process all that was done to us and our lives.
Good Morning HaWho
Oh yes, astounding is right! These MLCers live in such a shadow. It is much like how a teenager keeps their life secret from their parents. The MLCers adolescent behaviours they hide from their former partner and life. Spouse, old friends, work colleagues, kids, their parents, etc... see only the shadow these crisis individuals now reside within.
My XW never speaks to me. And she seldom shares anything of her life with her children; especially anything of importance. Her rare conversations are superficial small talk and mostly digging and inquiring into the childrens lives.
Your XH spent many years in his dorm room hidden away and living as a teenager. He still is living in that adolescent emotional realm it appears. The shadowy secrecy is necessary for him. Guilt, shame, regret, and so on push and pressure within him; and he cannot face it. MLCers lie and convince themselves (and anyone who will listen) of their fantasy view, even as reality slams against them. His divorce within six months is very telling. And still, he runs and cannot look towards his torment.
The boys do interact with Dad and do hear his beliefs and narrative. S17s, its no big deal comes right from his Dad. S15s view of Dad and Wife#2 never fighting, also sounds like Dads justifying and explaining to those who will listen.
You are correct. Marriage takes work and should not be entered in to, nor thrown away, with such ease. Though, XHs marriage to OW was on rather feeble ground, being built upon the sandy foundation of lies and deceit.
I understand your concerns about the yarns XH is spinning, and the Kool-Aid he is pouring for the boys. Please do not underestimate your power when it comes to writing their family of origin story.
So concerning to have all this written into their FOO story now. I have so much anger for all my ex has written into their lives.
Yes it is concerning. And an incredible opportunity for your boys to learn some truly great life lessons.
That, is what is before you. None of us would wish this upon our lives and especially our childrens lives. Yet, it is here.
Your anger is perfectly normal and understandable. And part of processing all the secrets which you are now uncovering. Feel it and let it go. Act and behave, as you can and will, to combat against XHs sad narrative. You cannot control his actions or words, only yours.
Write better upon your boys book of life. Better views and beliefs of what is: friendship, love, marriage, respect, trust, accountable, responsibility, honour, faith, loyalty, and so on.
One does not fight fire with fire. The MLCer will expend enormous energies into maintaining their fantasy and view point. One cannot fight head on. Beside, fighting begets fighting. We come at this from a different tact.
Continue to lead by example. Providing small course adjustments to your boys lives. Have those conversations regarding girlfriends, dating, what marriage means, valuing people, etc. They are 15 and 17, and will be living their somewhat hidden secret lives as well. Have faith, it is ok, and normal. Keep being Mom. Loving and open. Their beacon. The boys will figure out the truth and better path. As much as they seem to not be listening or paying attention, they really are.
My kids were thrown away. They know what Mom did, and how she treated me and them. And none of them would want their spouse to treat them like Mom treated me. The biggest lesson for them was/is finding forgiveness for Mom. That allows them to live and love their life. To love another. To be happy. To date. To see a proper marriage. And so on, all without the nagging feeling and expectation of the rug being pulled out from under them. And, it falls to us, the strong stable parent, to lead and inspire them to that great life. To inspire them (and ourselves) to let go and seek better not bitter.
I realize Im preaching to the choir here. You know this. Youre a seasoned vet. Still, a little encouragement from a friend whos been in similar shoes can be such a boost.
You are doing very well my inspiring friend.
D
if you feel up to it, and think it will make you laugh rather than triggering you, i highly recommend the John Cleese britcom, Hold The Sunset. It's on Britbox. The character of Roger ... may seem a tad familiar to you. I just binged the series (11 episodes). Well worth it.
Thanks DNJ. Just good, solid advice.
Bttrfly - not sure where to get Britbox but Ill look into it.
I am zero contact with my ex-MLCer; we rarely text and only about kids. Recently I was under the weather and told the kids they should stay with him an extra day or two just so that I was not passing anything to them. My ex texted me saying he had $$ plans the following day and needed 24 hours notice to cancel and not lose money. (I bet this is his way of saying he has another woman in the wings.). He asked is he thought I should cancel. He still has not told me he divorced his affair partner. So I said, sorry to disrupt you and your wifes plans but I would cancel. He thanked me but then he said as you know, I have been divorced a year now. But thanks for the sentiment. I guess my kids told him I knew.
I decided to have some fun and said something like oh, your marriage and divorce all happened so fast, who can possibly keep track of it all. We all are taking bets on when you will have wife #3. I fully expected him to spew.
Instead he joked. He asked what theodds were as he might want part of the action.
I told him most of us agreed he was already married to wife #3. But we thought this time he decided to keep it a secret from everyone, even his own kids. Then I said that I had bet he married wife 3 at the courthouse while he filed for for divorce from wife #2. Maybe she was even a clerk there?
I fully expected him to just rage.
But he wrote back ha ha. That is pretty good actually. He then said wife 2 was good for him but the relationship with the kids was strained. So it was an easy choice after that. Then he said tell the bet makers there will not be a wife 3 til our younger son graduates and leaves for college. Then he said signing off (his way of getting the last word.)
Interesting that he felt the need to tell me she was a good choice for him. Suuurrrre. We always divorce people in 5 months who are good choices. Wink wink.
I found it interesting that this is the first conversation in years where he did not spew and where there was some semblance of a sense of humor.
Hello HaWho
Wow, H didnt spew.
By the way, those shots were pretty funny.
D
My, my, my how things are changing. My older son is leaving for college in the fall; his first year. He’ll be attending a UC school that is not within a close distance to me. Sad as I am that he will not be close, I know this is good for him and his healing. He has had a really tough time with the divorce and the grenade that his dad threw over his shoulder and onto our lives.
Early in the summer, son 17 had it out with his dad. He called him out on a lot of his behaviors and the decisions he has made over the last few years. (For those new to my story, my ex married his affair partner but asked my kids to keep it all secret from me. I did not find out he was dating nor married to her until a month after they were married. Then he divorced her in five months and also kept that a secret from me.) My understanding is my ex has been referring to himself as the family man! This, despite the fact that my kids saw him running around all hours of the night when he lived with us. And they watched him marry and divorce within a six-month period. Not much of a family man there! They are well aware that he had a midlife crisis.
Son 17, called him out as being a hypocrite, told him he is the worst family man ever and also told him he’ll never respect him. It has been very difficult to sit on the sidelines and watch him process the fact that his father is a loser. In fact, it’s a really bizarre story unfolding.
Son 17 has told me that his dad brags about bringing home women who are 25. My son said it’s really bizarre because it’s clear that somehow his dad finds validation and worth through conquering women half his age. My son recognizes that it’s truly abnormal for a 50-year-old man to validate himself in this way. He says he looks at his dad as even less than a friend. He doesn’t look at him as a dad at all. And he says he really wouldn’t be friends with a guy who talks this way about women. (I am so proud that my boy recognizes the talk as gross locker room banter that is beneath him.)
Here’s one particularly comical story. Apparently, before his dad is about to have these 25 year old women over, he takes his guitar out and tries to impress the women by playing for them!
An even more disturbing story surfaced. Apparently, the first time my son introduced his girlfriend to his dad, they were driving somewhere and from the backseat of the car, my son’s girlfriend saw his dad getting nude pics of a woman on his phone. (Not sure if it was from a sleazy site or an actual woman.) She proceeded to text my son who was sitting in the front seat and tell him about the disturbing images she was seeing on his dad’s phone. It was a truly embarrassing and mortifying moment for my son. He was really angry and embarrassed. He really likes this girl and was just was so saddened that this is dad. He’s having a lot of issues with coming to terms that this is his dad. He told me he’ll never bring her around him again. And he won’t be bringing other girlfriends in the future to meet him either. It’s really all quite trashy.
Ever since my son called out his dad, the two of them have been butting heads. It’s quite clear to me that his dad is retaliating for being called out on (some pretty obvious bad stuff). My son is showing me some text conversations between them and meanness emanating from his dad is quite extraordinary. The problems start as garden-variety issues. His dad is upset that my son is not cleaning up after himself. Pretty typical teenage stuff. But from there it gets really ugly. He is very punitive in a way that does not match “the crime”. He tells him every hour he is late cleaning his room, will be a day that he takes his car away from him. I believe a lot of this is just retaliation for being called out on being a dirt bag.
His dad also tells him that he was disrespectful in voicing his criticism. I find this comical as his behavior is so ridiculously bad that it’s not really a subjective criticism, it’s factually wrong as a parent to do the stuff he is doing. Marrying somebody in secret and asking you to keep it quiet from your mom is obviously poor decision making ability. Bragging about sexual conquests and looking at nude pics in front of kids: all obviously bad. Anyway, his dad told him he was not welcome to go there anymore because he has disrespected him by criticizing him. So my son will be living here.
I’m working really hard to try to help him heal. He’s in a lot of pain. He’s in pain from seeing who his dad is, not being able to voice obvious criticisms, and for being thrown out of his house. He’s also very worried about repeating the cycle because my ex’s dad did the exact same kind of stuff.
I’m not sure if my ex is talking about sexual conquests in front of my 15-year-old. My 17-year-old son was not sure. But I have been thinking about the fact that I do feel I need to address this with my other son given that come fall he’ll be alone with his dad. I want him to understand that none of this is normal. Secure men don’t behave this way.
So I’m open to any advice people have on how to handle this. I am also looking for advice for my other son who does not want to see a therapist but is struggling with who his dad is and is worrying about repeating the cycle. He has told me he is scared to get married, scared he’ll divorce and put his kids through this. I think it’s hard to see your dad being a vehicle where the wheels are falling off.
As for me, while I am so sad my kids are seeing all this, I am so thankful to be separated from his bad decisions.
Hi HaWho.
I'm so sorry you are dealing with such dirtbag behavior.
I don't know what state you are in, but in my state it is actually illegal to share pornographic images with a minor. I would have a discussion with your lawyer. Every state is different.
You mentioned in your last line that you are "so thankful to be separated from his bad decisions".
I'm in the same boat. My XH flirts with anything that moves and my sons are grossed out by it. He is secretive, so he didn't share with anyone about his AP/OW - but they all know now. My sons are older than yours, but my youngest is still going through it and hasn't been able to separate himself emotionally from his dad's stuff.
I listen and validate and remind him that he has agency. He is free to speak to his dad about things that upset him. (We all know it doesn't do any good to change the behavior, but I encourage the boys to communicate and control what they can - themselves). At his age, he is free to have no contact, or contact with boundaries, which he is getting better at. I HIGHLY recommend the book "Boundaries" for everyone. There is also a "Boundaries for Teens". At any rate, your S15 could read about boundaries from reputable sources if he doesn't want to see a therapist.
I just wonder with your sons ages if they even have to have any relationship with their dad right now, while the behaviors are so gross. I encouraged my sons to speak to other adult men about it. Kept me from projecting, and gave them an unbiased male figure to hear them.
Maybe talk to the L and let the L explain to the boys what they have to do, given their ages, so that you aren't held in contempt, but they have choices on what they are exposed to. For instance, if they don't want to see their dad, they should at that age be able to choose, or maybe it can be limited due to his mental instability.
I wish you all the best. You aren't alone (((hugs)))
ok, this is really rough water. is there any other adult (or youngish adult) male in the family/friend sphere that your boys feel comfortable talking to? even a teacher or guidance counselor?
My son didn't really have any other strong male role models or guys he could talk to. A couple of his teachers really tried, but he was resistant. It was a real issue and led to a lot of trauma my son could have minimized had he been more open to help sooner. best thing would be for your son to see a counselor. Mine was resistant also, but he hit a wall and I took his choice away from him. We started going as family counseling with each having individual sessions as well and it's become something he relies on each week. Don't know if you can do the family counselor route and have it morph for your son(s) as well?
Barring that, I would not have the boys talk to the lawyer yet. Your ex is at best a loose cannon. You have no control over his behavior, but past experience has shown it's best not to poke that bear unless and until you have to, with all your ducks firmly in a row. If you think you need to get some kind of legal intervention, that's a different story, but it's unclear to me that s15 would be ok with that.
I think your best course of action is to keep doing what you're doing for S17 - listen, validate, ask questions, be his touchstone, and try to find another adult male that he can relate to. I've been very honest with my son about his chances of following in his dad's footsteps if he doesn't deal with it now, in real time. He listened and is getting help. You know deep in your heart what best to say to your son. The sad truth is that if he doesn't address the core wound his dad's inflicted then there is every chance he could repeat the pattern. That's the best argument for therapy.
^^^ I'm sorry Ha. I feel like my response was clinical and focused solely on your son without asking you how you are doing in all of this ... it isn't easy. How are you holding up? Do you have someone in your life you can talk with about this? yeah, you're separated from the day to day, but if you're like me, the problem is I would get sucked back into the vortex by how my son was affected. I was grateful for IC which helped me process it all. Sending you hugs xoxoxo
It's unfortunate that the funny, quirky stories have now turned tragic, but not surprising to you I'm sure.
I second what bttrfly said. My son has struggled greatly with the same issues: will I be like dad, will I do this to my family, can I ever be in a relationship with someone. He has been seeing a male counselor for a couple of years now that he is very comfortable with. They talk a lot about how son wants to be, how he wants to treat people, what kind of man he wants to be. My son has improved immensely. He is managing his moods very well and can calmly discuss the things that bother him now.
I struggle to understand these men. If I suddenly announced I was dating a 25 year old man, the logical assumption would be that he was using me for my resources; yet these men seem to feel flattered by being used financially from hard-up women. I find it somewhat humorous that the guy I supported for 25 years is now shacked up (and likely working on divorce number two) with a woman he supports full time on half his former pay (I will take action when and if the job situation miraculously improves).
Yes, happy to be separated from the antics. My guess is that 17 yo son will distance himself from dad even further when he goes away (mine said he would engage with them when free of my toxic influence--despite that they have phones, email, and know how to call and type--not so interested in dead old dad whether I'm around or not as it turns out). Maybe some day these guys will realize that the kids are old enough and smart enough to decide for themselves whether they want these leavers in their lives. At some point the hope is that they will really move on as they claim to have done and lead honorable lives that their children want to be part of. Probably not, but hope springs eternal.
I'm sorry for the angst this has given you and hope that barring these unpleasantries from your past that things are going well.
Ugh - I'm actually grateful my ex hooked up with his current wife about a year after we separated. But she was also young - 32 to my ex's 51 - and my boys (18-23) were pretty uncomfortable with the fact that she looked more like someone THEY would date than like someone they could picture with their dad. Still, they didn't have to hear stories of him dating. They get along ok with her now (she wasn't an affair partner thank god). But their whole view of marriage is skewed, because they thought they grew up in a home with a stable marriage, and when the rug was pulled out from under them, it really does leave them with a feeling that nothing can be counted on.
But their whole view of marriage is skewed, because they thought they grew up in a home with a stable marriage, and when the rug was pulled out from under them, it really does leave them with a feeling that nothing can be counted on.
you've just described my son to a "t"
Thank you all so much for your input.
Hope - just to clarify, my ex was not sharing the nude pics with them. My son’s girlfriend happened to see him looking at them as she had a view over his shoulder. Thanks for the book recommendation. Very helpful suggestion.
Bttrfly - my son is just not open to therapy right now, wish he were but he’s not. That said, he is doing an astounding job at processing and piecing things together. His ability to read the room is strong. He told me his dad bragging about 25 year old conquests shows his week self esteem and his need to get validation from women vs. from himself. He recognizes the behavior as pathetic. Pretty astute for a 17 year old.
Ownit - you nailed it, the quirkiness is now really tragic. Ex is clearly a total creep of a guy. Thankfully he has had decent role models through friends; their dads. It makes my son sad and jealous though that his dad is not at their level.
And KML - this is exactly what I am facing. My son is worried about building any kind of a future after this. He is scared by the prospect of this kind of unpredictability.
Bttrfly - as for me, thanks for asking, I feels tremendous guilt and sadness and anger that this has been heaped upon my kids. I worry a lot about the long term impact of all this.
But each glimpse of my ex’s life is a reveal. He is really lost. You have to drop all expectations with this sort of guy. It helps me create more mental distance between myself and him. I want him out of my life entirely; just wish I could brush him off like the lint he is.