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Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels

Posted By: Gerda

Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 06/23/19 05:36 PM

Last thread ends with a letter you might want to read if you want your brain to explode.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2839964#Post2839964

I am happy to report that though things appear colder and more impossible than ever, angels are ministering to Gerda, and some of them are reading this right now, so thank you!

There stood poor Gerda, without shoes, without gloves, in the midst of cold, dreary, ice-bound Finland. She ran forwards as quickly as she could, when a whole regiment of snow-flakes came round her; they did not, however, fall from the sky, which was quite clear and glittering with the northern lights. The snow-flakes ran along the ground, and the nearer they came to her, the larger they appeared. Gerda remembered how large and beautiful they looked through the burning-glass. But these were really larger, and much more terrible, for they were alive, and were the guards of the Snow Queen, and had the strangest shapes. Some were like great porcupines, others like twisted serpents with their heads stretching out, and some few were like little fat bears with their hair bristled; but all were dazzlingly white, and all were living snow-flakes. Then little Gerda repeated the Lordís Prayer, and the cold was so great that she could see her own breath come out of her mouth like steam as she uttered the words. The steam appeared to increase, as she continued her prayer, till it took the shape of little angels who grew larger the moment they touched the earth. They all wore helmets on their heads, and carried spears and shields. Their number continued to increase more and more; and by the time Gerda had finished her prayers, a whole legion stood round her. They thrust their spears into the terrible snow-flakes, so that they shivered into a hundred pieces, and little Gerda could go forward with courage and safety. The angels stroked her hands and feet, so that she felt the cold less, and she hastened on to the Snow Queenís castle.

But now we must see what Kay (aka H) is doing. In truth he thought not of little Gerda, and never supposed she could be standing in the front of the pa
lace.

Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 06/24/19 04:58 AM

Westco, Job, DnJ, Grace -- Thank you for all the love, support, understanding -- and validation.

I know he is crazy but in between knowing I forget and think that the real H is going to reappear. So I need my warrior angels to remind me.

But I do want to tell you that I wasn't trying to convince H of anything. I know I can't get through to that addled mind. I just wanted it in writing for our next conference that I had tried to explain to him that this interim set-up was too hard on the kids so that I would not have to keep doing it. And I figured that if he wrote back something crazy, that would only help prove my point that only one of us is trying to do what is best for the kids.

I don't think I ever explained the court part of things. There is no settlement. This is just a little interim measure I used to get H out. We worked out custody, not what I wanted but apparently better than I could hope for if the judge decided. And so far H didn't take almost any of the visitation he demanded. He also wrote me a crazy e-mail saying that the court did not expect him to follow "the letter" of the agreement until we were actually divorced, not realizing how bad he is going to look if I ever get a guardian for the kids. The judge doesn't seem to care about anything but even she might look askance at that. S13 refuses to see him or talk to him and H keeps writing him very crazy texts and once used D10's phone and pretended he was D10 inviting S13 to hanging out with her and H. But so far not a penny of child support. H makes hardly any money but I want that child support, even if it's a hundred bucks a month! I sometimes don't even eat a meal because I am so broke! I also think that being forced to give up some of his pay will make him more likely to make a settlement with me about the rest. My L was trying not to force that because he wanted to negotiate a global thing but I realized that my L also wants to look good in front of judge for his own sake, and that means doing a lot of settling without motions. So I started digging in until he understood that I was getting that child support no matter what. Now he is demanding it and we may have to file a motion.

Then at the last conference, I told my L that all I cared about was getting H out of the house before I or my kids had a nervous breakdown. I offered 2K a month off his eventual share of the asset/debt split because I knew I could make that much by renting out half my apartment 1/3 of the time. I figured my kids could take that. He demanded 4500 a month and I said no. And at court, in the hallway during "negotiations" his L was screaming that I was hiding money and make 30K a month on our rentals. All the other lawyers and clients in the hallway were staring at him, he was so enraged and nasty. I don't know if H told him that lie or he made it up, but I understood that if I didn't agree to something, I would have to keep living with H until the actual divorce, and that is going to take a while because there is so much debt, discovery, appraisals being demanded by his L. I would need to go to trial to prove all these things are lies. His L just keeps racking up the billable hours since H's friend (my kids' godfather) is funding the legal fees. So I agreed to give him 5K the day he moved out but said it had to be June 1, and 3K a month after that until September. They tried to call this money spousal support!!!! I dug in. They agreed to call the 5K an advance on assets but the rest they would only agree to call "unallocated." So in desperation to get him out, I agreed to this Rumplestiltskin nonsense. I spent all my savings getting the rental ready. And I had to pay $500 of his parking tickets, get a storage space and move all his crap, then my kids both had to go to docs out of pocket as I am still working out insurance through the state, etc, etc. So I put all those things in my note to H to make it clear that this is totally untenable and wrong for the kids, and that he would need to work to pay his own bills til we finalized our settlement. I knew it wouldn't work on him but I wanted to be able to show the court that I tried.

WHEW that was long.

I noticed today that I have more moments of joy. I am still really sad about the family part of things but it is so great not to have to encounter H. I walk around my city and remember how much I like it, am enjoying my work, especially at the prison, feeling a tiny bit attractive once in a while and just more confident, remembering that Gerda was always a tough cool girl.

XOXO to you ALL.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 06/24/19 04:29 PM

Oh SBJ, I just saw your post, missed that the first time. Thank you for stopping by, I always get a little lift when I hear from you! (SAM!)

I think though that H is not trying to show me my faith is BS. He is trying to show me that he is doing what God wants. It's funny that what he said about free will is true. He is just forgetting that God allows us free will but wants us to align it to His will, not our own! I allowed myself to fantasize for a few moments that I would write back to him with a list of people who had exercised free will that would include Gandhi and St Paul but also Hitler and Judas. But don't worry, I didn't answer at all.

How are you doing these days, SBJ?
Posted By: SBJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 06/24/19 06:42 PM

Gerda, I know what you mean with the "FW" conversation. I just had a heated conversation with 2 friends Friday night about FW and what is means or should mean to us. One of them is in the Diaconate program currently and the other is planning on beginning the next go round. Not heated in a bad way, but in a learning kind of way. My w used the same kind of psychology on me by saying that God has given her peace in her decision to divorce. So that is saying that he is going against his will to make her happy...makes no sense to me.

I am doing ok I think. I have been ramping up my exercise. I bought a road bike and have been putting some miles in every week. Working towards multiple goals. There is a 150 mile race in April from Houston to Austin called the MS150 that some friends want me to ride with them. I also have a personal goal of doing a 100 mile ride for my bday in November. And last but not least, I have a strange curiosity about doing triathlons. I have a friend that has done an Ironman distance and he is going to help me with my swimming to get me more familiar with race swims instead of just recreational swimming. We will then get into putting them all together.

I find that spending an hour to two hours on the bike by myself allows me quite of bit of time to think and converse with the big guy upstairs. I also ride with a group of men that have gone thru the d process and are all at different points in life. I think that I am the only stander, but it doesn't bother me.

Sorry to hijack your thread, but you asked....haha!
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 06/24/19 09:28 PM

Playing the free will card. Yes, we all have free will. That is a gift from God. God doesn't want us to align ourselves with his teachings under duress. The free will is so we turn towards Him because we want to. We chose to.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I noticed today that I have more moments of joy.


This made me smile. Many more such moments are to come. Keep your eyes, ears, and heart open to noticing them.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 06/26/19 01:55 AM

Hello Gerda

Thank you for sharing the court stuff - the interim measures. I had thought there was a settlement in place. Oops, sorry about that, my mistake.

I totally get you making these arrangements to get him out of the house. I sure wouldnít want to see you have a nervous breakdown. It is nice that custody is figured out, and more favourable than the likely outcome if it went to court.

I am guessing that by September a more permanent arrangement is to found.

How far along are the renovations? It sounds like you have a good plan for digging out of this mess. Clearheaded and stable looks good on you. smile

Glad to see and hear about those moments of joy in your life. Your work, the reading at the prison, walking around the beautiful city - it is so wonderful when the good memories and happy times come back.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...feeling a tiny bit attractive once in a while and just more confident, remembering that Gerda was always a tough cool girl.

Yes!

Gerda, you are doing very well. And are definitely on my list of people I believe in.

(((Gerda)))

DnJ
Posted By: HaWho

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 06/26/19 01:35 PM

It is nice to read that you are having moments of joy and feeling like your old self! As we heal those moments grow and grow.

The d process will be very difficult with such an unreasonable person. It will be a slog but being free of his heaviness will continue to be such a relief.


Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/11/19 12:42 AM

Hi Gerda. Just stopping by to check up on you. Hope your renovations are progressing nicely and that you are finding moments of peace within your storm.

Hugs.

Grace
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/13/19 05:47 AM

A huge hug to Grace and HaWho and DnJ and piles of salt water taffy by way of thanks (I just ate a lot of that at the beach) for visiting my thread and thinking of me.

Things have been hard hard hard. I haven't had the energy to write about it. I do have those moments of light and joy and many dark ones lying on the floor.

And I have court on Tuesday, so please, all you mantle-sized friends, line up and jump into my pocket or purse that day.

I'll catch up on my sitch one of these days... I just gave myself a pep talk on Nyla's thread actually.
Posted By: HaWho

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/14/19 02:51 PM

Praying for you Gerda. You are warrior strong! You will look back and marvel at all that you accomplished.

Breathe and take it battle by battle.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/15/19 02:20 AM

Hello Gerda

Oh boy! Salt water taffy.

Good luck on Tuesday. Mantle sized DnJ will be there. smile

I liked the pep talk on Nylaís thread - well said.

DnJ
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 08:00 AM

Hello Gerda

I will be thinking about you today, and I hope the court appointment goes smoothly.

(((Gerda)))

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 01:21 PM

That is well and good but I need Mantle DnJ. Could you make sure he climbs into my backpack by 2 pm?

I am okay but lord I hate this. It is so nerve wracking.
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 01:36 PM

Prayers to you, my friend. Stay strong. You've got this, and the Lord's got your back.

Hugs.

Grace
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 01:36 PM

Good luck today. Try to stay calm as much as possible. Keep your voice even/level and look the judge in the eye if you need to speak. This court date will be over very quickly and then you can breathe a sign of relief. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted By: Babe

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 02:19 PM

Prayers to Gerda, our Lord Reigns !
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 03:20 PM

Good Morning Gerda

Youíve got quite a supporting group of friends right here, all beside you. Keep steady. Leave emotions for later, and stay intellectual. In hours this will all be past, a memory.

DnJ
Posted By: sjohns6

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 04:20 PM

Good morning, Gerda! My thoughts are with you. Feel free to pack a pint sized sjohns (Sam) on your shoulder for support!!

(((Gerda)))
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 11:11 PM

Thank you, my friends.

It was one of the most horrifying and horrible things I have ever experienced today. I would rather get another mastectomy than go through what I just went through.

And in my city, you have to sit on a bench and watch two lawyers argue about you -- and one doesn't know all the details and the other one is spewing endless lies and screaming. In my city, no one values anything but money, they do not care what is happening at home, they just want you to settle and get out.

H was sitting there with dyed-blond hair, dyed beard, full tan, thrilled to show what an evil money-hiding witch I am. He proudly tried to refuse to pay child support. He wouldn't even agree to pay child support from the date he moved out but was ready to go to a motion to avoid it. I didn't know if I should hold tight but my L told me it would cost me another 2K to file a motion and the judge might not even give me more than the pathetic $500/mo they finally agreed to (they offered only $375 though I have full physical custody and he hasn't seen D for two weeks or S since he moved out June 1).

We can't prove anything until trial so it's just a lot of slogging through lies and screaming. His L is so deeply evil that it is almost impossible to navigate around him. My L does, but where we end up is always so far from what is fair and right.

I sat there reading my bible. Sometimes I had to plug my ears and pray by whispering so I couldn't hear the lies. Once I tried to say something and the court attorney told me to shut up.

All the lies, the adultery, the abuse, the neglect, the monitoring,the drinking, even the stealing -- all of that did not kill my desire to stand.

This D situation is killing my desire to stand. H is so evil now, is destroying me, it is beyond anything I ever imagined.
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/16/19 11:29 PM

Gerda,


I've thought about you most of the day. Satan has clearly taken hold of your H. I am so sorry you had to go through all of that. All I can offer you is prayers of comfort. Hug your kids tight tonight.

(((Gerda)))

Grace
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/17/19 01:59 PM

When I got home last night,there was an e-mail from a broker copying me and H's lawyer and including all these papers to sign -- they had said they had a buyer for our upstate cabin at a price almost double what the house is worth (and most of what it is worth is mortgaged) and I knew it was BS. So I wrote back to the agent saying, "My husband is having a midlife crisis and is trying to destroy our family. Do not write to me again." This is what I do every time he gives my e-mail to a broker, I want to make sure the broker freaks out and never tries that again. We are in the process of appraising our two places but he is just obsessed with forcing me to sell first. So he sent me the note below.

I am really a mess, like I was just post BD. I mean, I have no hope or desire to stand anymore, though I still plan to stand, so that part is different, but just that feeling that you want to die or crawl under a rock because you don't want the life God is giving you anymore. Or at least that He is allowing. You don't want to trust his plan because his plan is too awful.

And then D14 came to me to talk about his feelings of same sex attraction, and I had to try to navigate that! Every night is a huge conversation with him -- about cutting himself, killing himself, using drugs, and sometimes about that. This is something he never though of til a friend of his told him he (the friend) might be gay, it totally freaked him bout but then since then I think he started looking at things on the internet, etc., and it's the latest thing in his list of things to try to solve his pain. He told me he is attracted to girls as well but doesn't understand.

I don't think I can handle anything more without totally collapsing!

Last night I was getting something to eat and while waiting noticed this man, very handsome, covered with tattoos, because his neck tattoo said, "Deliver us from evil." So I asked him if he prays that prayer, and he said yes, and I said I was battling a lot of evil and said that prayer everyday. And he said, "You are a warrior, you aren't a victim. Don't fear suffering because you are a warrior, and suffering is what makes you strong." And talked about that for a minute and then was gone. I started crying because I felt like God was speaking to me through him. But I haven't been able to get that feeling, of being a warrior. I mostly just want to crawl under a rock. I think seeing my H this evil and having to face the bullying of his L, who was even physically bullying me by getting into my face, this has broken me, I can't see anymore because I have been so devoted to standing, and this is so powerfully evil that it seems impossible to do anything but give in to the vision of my life I do not want. I am not explaining this very well but that's it for now, here is the note H sent, nothing surprising or unusual, I don't even know why I am including it.

Gerda (usually he uses my pet name but he used my really formal name that no one ever uses except formally at work, etc),

You realize that by publicly defaming me by reducing, in one venomous swoop, my sane gesture -- to sell in order to equally distribute what I with my bare hands made -- as "destructive" and as indicative of a "midlife crisis"... this defamation not only hurts, and not only is uncalled for (not to mention it is hardly Christian), but it will go on legal record. I am laboring, you should know, for justice. Not for a midlife thrill. And I am laboring to image myself to my kids in ways that are my own and not yours. So please make an effort to let (versus manipulate) all people, including my kids, decide (in time) which image to gravitate towards.

-- Husband (he used his full formal name)
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/17/19 02:04 PM

Babe, Sam, Job, DnJ, Grace, it means so much to me that you all stopped in to support me. Babe, extra special treat when you stop by and give me some faith boosts! Love to you all.
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/17/19 02:58 PM

Gerda,

I am truly sorry that yesterday was a horrible experience for you. It's never easy and his appearance sounds like he's not happy w/himself.

Now, I'm going to make a suggestion to you and you can either choose to listen or not. In the future, I would suggest that you simply state to the brokers that now is not the time to be considering their offers. I would leave out the bit about him having a midlife crisis. They do not need to know what is going on behind the scenes. If you must provide an explanation, just say that you and your h are in the midst of a divorce and when things are settled, then the properties will be settled up and not until then.

I have to agree w/the man you met...you are allowing yourself to be a victim. Gerda, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and put that warrior outfit back on. You are not a victim! You are not a mouse shaking in your little paws. You can be and are a strong woman and now is the time to pull yourself up, hold your head high and get tough. You've seen what they are capable of and as long as you allow your h and his bulldog lawyer to get to you, they will. The next time that lawyer gets in your face, hold your had up and say "step back and don't get into my space, I can see and hear you quite nicely from 4 ft. away. It is not necessary to get up into my face". That was unacceptable behavior on that lawyer's part, but he knew he could get to you and make you shake in your shoes. You have to change that image. What he did is called intimidation and it worked.

Right now, the only human being that can help you is yourself. God is there to help and guide you, but he needs you to get stronger to fight the evil that is surrounding you at this time.

Hang in there. We are all here for you.

Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/17/19 04:00 PM

Good Morning Dear Gerda

First off:

((((Gerda))))

That sounded like a horrible experience. It is over. It exists only in memory now. You survived it. And will be stronger for it; Iíve seen you stand and rise from the dark before, and you will here as well.

Did I read this correctly? Full custody. $500.00/month child support. Settled and agreed too? Wow! That is awesome. This was one of the biggest items you wanted.

Divorce is just about kids and money. Once kids are figured out, it is just dollars and cents after that. Even here in rural small town where the streets roll up at 6:00pm, it is that way. Your lawyers and legal system sounds the same. H and his lawyer however do sound to lean to the chasing of ambulances.

In my case anything and everything, outside of financial dealings, W did and was doing (affair, abandonment, etc...) had no bearing on the negotiations. It is just splitting up the assets, fairly according to the law or whatever the two parties can agree too. It really is just a business deal gone bad, as much as it really isnít - weird how that actually makes sense.

With, I am hoping, your child custody resolved the remainder is more straight foreword. Finances leave a good trail and can be divided in two, rather quickly and with a lot less mess. Math. It is emotionless, so the courts appear as well.

Your diminishing desire to stand is understandable. Do not worry about it for now, let that be, youíve got enough on your plate. Focus on you and your kids, and once the dust settles you will see clearer.

With much support.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/17/19 04:16 PM

I will write more later, but thank you, DnJ and Job, all your words are true and good and right. I know I will get there, just being honest about today's hole.

But about the money -- first off, $500 is a joke where I live. It is amazing for me to get that since so far I got nothing, though really it is just coming off what I am being forced to pay him each month.

I am not sure my L is tough enough. H's L is so disgusting that he has a direct ticket to Hades upon his death, but I think my L could be a little more disgusting in order to play this game. I know my L wants the judge to think well of him because he has to go there so often, whereas H's L is not from the city and rarely comes here and is in general a disgusting barbarian.

But anyway the point is -- I agree about the money and division. And I have offered, for example, 18 months to buy H out or sell the house. I figured we would end up at a year, so that I would have a year to try to refinance and also for the kids to heal a little before being uprooted. But they believe I am hiding money, despite having all the bank statements, tax returns, etc. And his L wants to make as much money as possible before this ends. So his L is constantly writing letters and demanding more things and just announced we are doing depositions! He is a money grubbing dirtbag and is trying to milk H for all he has, and because the friend who is financing this is so rich (and I begin to wonder about their relationship, honestly), M just keeps paying. His L also lies constantly in court, and we don't even get the judge, it's all the court attorney at these conferences, so his L barks out numbers about the value of our house that are false, makes up numbers about how much I earn. They all look at the papers and say, I don't even understand how she is living on this, it's not possible, but then if I try to say anything they tell me to shut up and H's L keeps implying that I am hiding money or that my dad is paying for everything. Everyone ends up screaming and I am not allowed to talk. It reminds me of the scene in Clockwork Orange where Alex has his eyes propped open with toothpicks.

As an example -- they wouldn't accept any appraiser name I gave, so the court gave us a name and put it in the order. We called that person and they said $1200 for the appraisal. Which is double the quotes I got, but okay, was ready to go,and then H's L said that it was a business and had to be assessed for the business so the appraiser said $4500!!! I said no and gave the names again, figuring H would not want to pay half of $4500 but they refused to use anyone else and H just kept saying he would borrow the money for the appraisal from that friend. So the court ordered us to come up with this money by Friday for the $4500 appraisal!!!! No one cares that I have no money left or that I am alone caring for the kids, no one cares that H is paying $2500 for an apartment but won't buy his kids an apple.

So that is what I mean. I am ready to split everything and really really want to have no financial ties to H ever again, no matter if he comes back or not, and I am trying to refi my place long before the 18 month mark, but I have to repair my credit since H destroyed it, and this takes time (and money). But H is so thirsty for his blood money and so unwilling to actually get a job that he is just vicious every time.
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/17/19 09:08 PM

Gerda,

You are truly going through more than you deserve for sure, but you are strong, and will get through. One day, heck one minute, at a time. The man you met. No coincidence. Listen to what he said. "You are a warrior, you aren't victim." Put on the armor of God, and you will get through this.

I agree with Job. I would recommend you do not provide any answers to inquiries from brokers other than to say it's not on the market at this time. That's really all you need to say. Otherwise you are just adding fuel to the fire.

(((Gerda)))

Your son is hurting, confused, probably angry. I think it's wonderful he trusts you so much to open up to you like he does. Keep the lines of communication open. Society in general is making our kids so confused about their sexuality. Anything goes. This whole generation is confused. Keep up the lines of communication, and the two of you will navigate this together. Perhaps exploring positive outlets to help him deal with his anxiety would help (exercise, etc.). Have you explored counseling with him? If you are near a university, often you can find counseling services that don't cost very much.

We are all here for you, and God is walking by your side. Reach out and hold His hand. Feel His strength. His love.

Grace
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/19/19 07:59 PM

Hello Gerda

Yes $500 is pretty low, even for small town here. I was more pleased with the custody and the progress. You are doing great. The sooner this toxic man is no longer directly involved in your life, the better. You will be so much better off. I am very glad you know, and can see, you will be alright.

Hís L sounds like a weasel. Itís too bad. In any profession, or anything really, there is always some who tend towards the nastier side, the darker side. Unfortunately this barbaric - what a minute how did you say it - direct ticket holder to hades is representing your Hís interests. Persevere Gerda.

When you look, Wow, what a lifeís story you have. Keep shining girl!

Grace said it really well about S14 and his confusion. Iím very happy to see that he talks to you so much. Be the sane stable parent.

Is S14 still seeing his counsellor? I remember he liked him and was happy talking with him.

How is daughter doing? Is she 10 or 11 now?

I was going to post further to your impossibility (Maryís serenity) from my thread. Donít want to upset the balance of ďprotocolĒ of threads and posts. I am happy talking to you here or on my thread. I did start here and have moved it, as it seem to fit in over there better.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am ready to split everything and really really want to have no financial ties to H ever again, no matter if he comes back or not

I agree with you completely.

For W and I, our finances were shared and common. I do wonder sometimes at the idea - if her and I ever got back together what would our finances look like. Makes one see just how different and new a future relationship would and must be.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/20/19 01:50 PM

DnJ -- So happy to see your post this morning, I am back to my post BD nerves despite constant prayer.

But have been distracting myself too much with temptations and this is probably only making it worse as it is part of my existential crisis -- or spiritual battle, depending how you see it.

The issue is that the way H is going about this is so evil, my exposure to his L and all that evil is so impossibly dark, that it is killing something in me that was a seed that could grow. The seed that would allow forgiveness no matter what. I don't know why the other things seem forgivable and this does not, but truly this is beyond anything I ever imagined he would be capable of. He is believing a lie about me -- e.g., that I am hiding money -- but it is very easy to look at the numbers and see the truth. So he either has to be committed to an insane asylum for delusions or he is evil beyond repair. The first will not happen and the second destroys what has defined me all this time -- and since long before I even met H.

Despite what you said about feelings and not worrying about standing for now -- all of which is true but only possible if you have the interior mind-control of a DnJ or maybe Saint Theresa of Avila -- the problem is that I see myself at this crossroads, and having to choose a path. One is the path of standing no matter what, which is what I have lived by for seven years, and what makes perfect sense to me in terms of my faith and in terms of everything I believed about divorce my entire life. And it seems like the only way to explain my suffering, on many levels, to give it a purpose -- restoration of this family as the end point to everything. And to give my children hope and a reason to believe in vows and to forgive their father.

I know i think all the protests you will have against this black-white vision. I know you will encourage me to wait and watch and not worry about this. I know you will say it's not my job to help them forgive their dad.

But it is what is driving my anxiety right now. And sometimes I do the opposite, I get so upset that I can't stand it when D10 loves her dad, though of course I try to hide that.

I imagine that if I gave up everything I believed in, I would be like I was before I came to Christ -- tough, cool, enough of a hard heart not to care about some things and to pursue distractions from pain. This is what I see people doing all around me, here in my city which is the epicenter of divorce. They trade pain for "moving on." Everyone I know outside of my faith community is constantly urging me to do that, and men keep appearing in my path. Most of them make me sick but there are a couple of temptations....

But giving up everything I have believed in all this time is first of all not possible, just because of my nature and a conviction on my heart, and second of all means something horrifying as far as my vision of the world of the spirit -- unless it's just that I submit to being unable to live in the world of the spirit anymore and hope God pulls me back -- or even just hope that God gives me the desire for Him to pull me back! I don't even have the desire anymore to walk fully in God's way.

So then I make deals with myself. I don't try to make any deals with God at least, I just tell him that I reached the end of my strength and that I hope He can somehow show me He loves me despite even if I turn away from what I know is best for my family.

And then when I start doing that, nothing else makes sense about how to walk my path.

I know that for you, DnJ and probably Grace too, it's a little different, because you do not see remarriage or dating in the same way. But that is what I mean, I do not want to adapt my faith to my circumstances.

XO
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/20/19 05:15 PM

Good Morning Gerda

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am back to my post BD nerves

Breathe Gerda. You have the gift of time, even though it may not seem like it.

Originally Posted by Gerda
The issue is that the way H is going about this is so evil, my exposure to his L and all that evil is so impossibly dark, that it is killing something in me that was a seed that could grow. The seed that would allow forgiveness no matter what. I don't know why the other things seem forgivable and this does not, but truly this is beyond anything I ever imagined he would be capable of. He is believing a lie about me -- e.g., that I am hiding money -- but it is very easy to look at the numbers and see the truth. So he either has to be committed to an insane asylum for delusions or he is evil beyond repair. The first will not happen and the second destroys what has defined me all this time -- and since long before I even met H.

H believes a lie about you. Listen to that. He believes it!

Numbers, logic, reason will not alter his belief. Convictions, values, beliefs are difficult and take time to alter for the one experiencing them - it is impossible (applies here) for you to change his beliefs, only his can do that.

It is not ďvery easy to look at the numbers and see the truthĒ. His world would crumble if he would see the truth. He very much cannot, at this time, see reason.

Imagine if you absolutely believed that something was red. It looked red to you. It is red! Now someone is telling you it is blue. To alter what you see to see blue. That is how destructive a crisis is to someoneís reality. You cannot fix him, show him, reason with him, explain to him - nothing, you didnít break him. To have him see blue, especially when he is fighting and mad - crisis is horrible.

You have only allowed two choices for H, well actually for you. H needs to be committed to an insane asylum or he is evil beyond repair. This affects you, not H. This outlook doesnít change anything with H, only within you.

Beliefs are slow to change and the person must be willing. (((Gerda)))

Neither of those two choices are accurate. Please donít strengthen a belief towards them. H is irrational, not insane. H is behaving deplorably, lacking morals, and in general is an @ss; he is not evil. He actions are horrible; seeing him as evil will not serve or help you. In fact it does exactly what you said - it hurts and destroys you.

Standing and the crossroads you face. (Interior mind control smile ). Standing really starts when you are healed enough to stand down. Until then standing and healing are linked. The crossroads and temptations you face are due to indifference taking hold. One feels all these new larger than life emotions in the void that indifference produces, and wants to reconcile them. Dig for patience. You have lots going on, let things settle.

Standing, like forgiveness, letting go, loosing fear, etc... is for you, not H, not marriage. Stand for you.

Originally Posted by Gerda
And it seems like the only way to explain my suffering, on many levels, to give it a purpose -- restoration of this family as the end point to everything. And to give my children hope and a reason to believe in vows and to forgive their father.

I know i think all the protests you will have against this black-white vision. I know you will encourage me to wait and watch and not worry about this. I know you will say it's not my job to help them forgive their dad.

Standing, restoration of family, hope, forgiveness, vows, kids - all mixed together. Black-white, all or nothing, and the way you said it appears to be dependent on family restoration.

I am sorry when Iíve come across as protesting your path. This is your journey and I am happy to walk with you.

I am at a loss of why you feel I would advise you to not help your kids find forgiveness.

It is not your job to facilitate a relationship between kids and their father, it is your job not to harm or destroy it.

It is absolutely your job to help your kids. Maybe help is being defined differently. Forgiveness is for the one doing the forgiving. I have encouraged my kids to forgive their Mom and themselves. Your children should definitely work towards forgiving their Dad, it is so much for them.

Forgiveness is not contingent on Hís (or Dadís) remorse, actions, or words. In fact forgiveness for him will have very little to do with him, and everything to do with you (or S or D).

Forgiveness also is not contingent on family restoration. Again definitions - family restoration. Even if H never wakes up, you all can find forgiveness. Your family is you, S, and D - for the moment. Build it strong.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I know that for you, DnJ and probably Grace too, it's a little different, because you do not see remarriage or dating in the same way. But that is what I mean, I do not want to adapt my faith to my circumstances.

Iíve accepted the reality of my situation. My family does not include XW - for now. Life is change. We all are moving and the future is unknown, and I am open to lots of possibilities.

Maybe this will help:

I am divorced and single. I have let XW go. I did attempt, and was willing, to date - fate had other plans. I still have not broken my vows. I have no plans to date. Iím not sure about where I am with remarriage, dating, etc... I am not against it, and I am not seeking it. I am happy with my life.

ďI do not want to adapt my faith to my circumstancesĒ - good for you. Circumstances change. If you alter your faith do it for you, not to match circumstances.

Family restoration is not the end point, life would continue after that as well. Family is important. Holding on for a restoration that includes H, is not.

Following your faith, forgiving, leading your kids to forgiveness, keeping you vows, having purpose, living well, and being happy - are all important and possible. And achievable for you and in the circumstances you are in right now.

I believe that!

DnJ
Posted By: Gordie

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/25/19 12:47 AM

Gerda,

I am sorry you are having such a tough time.

I am praying for you.

I agree with DNJ of course.

When you are beyond exhausted.

Remember that Footprints poem.

What I wish to convey but donít know how to do is that you are not a victim.

The saint you mentioned above didnít see herself as a victim.

Not did our Lord.

I know you know all of that.

Donít give H (or really the evil one) the power over to you to feel so helpless.

Everything feels so truly dark right now.

But that feeling is temporary.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/28/19 01:09 PM

Gordie and DnJ, how blessed I am to have you as my friends, stopping in to check on me and give me a little lift.

Gordie, it's funny that you bring up this victim issue; I didn't see before that you had written on my thread and just yesterday I wrote on yours asking about that very thing.

I don't know why my brain can't see what you are seeing here about that victim idea.

Christ didn't see himself as a victim, that is certainly the truest of the true. But He only makes sense as Christ if he was the sacrificial victim, the lamb. Do you mean that he "went willingly" to his passion? And that it's about going willingly into this divorce?

I did realize one thing this past week while I was in my favorite beach place with my kids. I was trying to figure out what I am so afraid of and why I am so terrified of any encounter with H, of the court, of everyone screaming lies, etc. I realized that on some level I think I deserve everything, that I did something bad and that this was the outcome. I realized that all these years I have been trying to be so good and to some degree to show God how good I am so He will fix this. And that I lived the same way as a child, but without really any belief in God, just trying to be good so that everyone at home would think I was the good one or stop fighting or not go crazy (my MLC mom).

So maybe that is what you mean, that that is victimhood? That, I can see now. But I imagine it will take a long time to heal from that.

Yesterday my H tried to use the car, called/texted very last minute that he was in my neighborhood and needed it. I am usually silent but this time I wrote him a detailed list of the money he owed me for impounds (two this year) and more tickets, how he always leaves it with the "empty" light on and then I have to get gas even to park it (in my city this is a big pain), how his many issues with his license (incl that it's suspended right now) caused my rate to skyrocket. I offered to credit him his half based on his own appraisal of the car last month ($500) less the impound/tickets or that he could pay all those things and my half and take the car. In other words, just a practical list. I wanted it all very clearly in writing in case it comes up in court. Because of the above realization, I am taking several steps to start fighting for myself and my kids on a practical level. That was one step. And this is what my H replied --

Please get help. God, if you knew him, is all who works. Look into him. You are not going deep enough. - H

I also wrote a letter to the wife of my kids' godfather, asking her family to stop paying for my H's divorce. His L's antics have gotten so out of hand and are costing me so much money, I decided it was time to fight for myself there too. Example -- My H insisted on using a court-appointed appraiser that cost $1200 instead of many other names we had that cost half that, and I finally had to agree, which was bad enough. But then his L told that appraiser she had to assess "my" rental business so she changed the quote to $4500! I asked my H twice to reconsider, offered him many names he could pick from, told him I wouldn't be able to pay him his monthly pmt on Aug 1 (meaning he won't be able to pay his rent) if I had to pay that and he wouldn't even answer. So I decided that it was time to be bold and finally send that letter. I am sure that this wife doesn't know that her H is paying all my H's bills. So my letter was very short and direct, asking her family to stop funding another man's divorce and explaining that my H's lawyer is costing all of us way more than is necessary. I do not think I could stop her if she already knows about it, but I am 99% sure that her H is doing it without her knowledge because he is so attached to my H (to a strange degree, honestly).

I agonized over this for so long, and finally this past week I realized that I was only agonizing because I think I am bad and am trying to be perfect in God's eyes. But that I had every right to try to make a more fair playing field in order to save my home and my kid's future college fund from the grasping claws of a money-desperate MLCer. And that it was certainly objectively wrong for that family to pay for another man's divorce, esp when it is my kids' godparents paying and they are devout Catholics. So that even if I was wrong to write it, it would not make me "bad" in God's eyes. I did spend a whole week editing the letter to remove anything emotional from it. But I sent it.

So that is the news from this front. Still spending every night talking with my son about his desire to do drugs, cut himself, suicide, etc., because of the pain. Last night I was even given the treat of his asking me about porn addiction. I almost fell over. Seeing some shifts in him after I got a contractor friend at the beach to give him a job for one afternoon -- and he will work for him again in August, so he will be doing something and will be around a bunch of really solid men.

XO to you all and thanks again to DnJ and Gordie for your very kind and helpful last posts.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/28/19 01:15 PM

Grace, thank you so much, read your last post many times over and feel so lucky that you are my friend around these parts. Some day you have to come to the table for the pot of tea! I love how clear-headed you are when you comment on my sitch, whether you are feeling strong and clear or like you are stumbling in your own sitch. That's a grace from Grace!
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/28/19 02:37 PM

Gerda,

The note laying out all of the expenses that your h has incurred while driving the car will most likely fall on deaf ears. However, I do understand why you put everything in writing. However, the only thing you needed to stand firm on was him not driving it because he has a suspended license. You do not want him out there driving around and possibly having an accident w/his license issue and, of course, your insurance company may look at what he did and question whether you knew he was driving on not. Plain and simple, "h, no you cannot drive the car until your license has been reinstated". That is what you say next time. The court and his over bearing lawyer should agree w/that statement.

I may be wrong, but the wife of your kids' godfather isn't going to be too happy that you are contacting her. Whatever it is her husband is doing is between him and your h. She may not want to be involved or get involved in the situation. I know you felt that this was something you needed to do, but it may back fire on you and make things a tad more difficult when dealing w/your h. I know, how can it be any worse...but your h has a way of twisting things and making you look a it batty to others. Bottom line, people to do not want get involved in such messy situations and she may very well either ignore your letter or post to you to not contact her again. Either way, your h will take that missive to his lawyer and he'll be growling again about your behavior. So, be prepared for that.

I think it is a wonderful idea for your son to work a little bit. It will give him something else to think about and help his self esteem greatly.

Let me just say this, Gerda, you are not a bad person.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/28/19 04:30 PM

Good Morning Gerda

Hís suspended license jumped off the page at me. I understand why you told him all the rest, it probably felt good to get it off your chest. However, he is in crisis, and wonít listen. jobís short and to the point message regarding not using the car is a good suggestion.

It is wonderful that S14 has got a bit of work and something constructive to do. We men like to build things, almost as much as demolishing things. We are just big kids sometimes, ok maybe a bit more than sometimes. smile This job sounds like it will feed right in to him.

I will reiterate, it is great that S14 is talking to you. Even about topics that almost knock you over. This is good stuff. Imagine if he wasnít talking. Porn addiction, drugs, sex, alcohol, and so on - yep difficult conversations. You can gently steer him a bit, guide him, and most important just be there and listen.

It is ok to not know the answer. You can, and should, tell him that. ďHmmm, S14, Iím not sure. Let me think about that and we can talk about it more tomorrow night.Ē That works pretty well. Kids feel heard, and acknowledged; and you get time to gather your thoughts, calm yourself, look up resources, and figure out what you actually want to say.

- - - -

I am hesitant about the following thoughts concerning victimhood, I wish to share. Itís the timing. I was reading and catching up, and I see you have taken a good size step forward. My thoughts and suggestions formed not knowing of your progress. Iím not wanting to jump all over you, or your situation.

After some deliberation I decided to post.

Yesterday, in the blazing heat, I was riding around mowing my grass. Hours of peaceful solitude, a constructive job, and a calm mind. The tall trees, which have stood far longer than I have been around, cast shadows of relief from the heat. A beautiful connection to nature, a connection to something, happens under these giants.

You and your situation was on my mind. As well as others here and in real life. When I write, I see myself speaking with just you, and only you; or whomeverís thread I am on. I do know that many people read along, however for the most part it is just you and me, two cups of coffee, sugar and heavy cream.

Gerda, Iíve been trying (not doing, so yes predisposed myself to failure) to figure out what I am attempting to get across. What got me from where you are now, to where I am now - in regard to victim mentality. And like has happen so many times, not looking provided the insight I was seeking. The trees, and their shadows provided relief and not just from the heat. I actually stopped the mower, when blanketed by the biggest tree, and listened as thoughts and feelings flooded in.

Your victimhood. There is some, no doubt; and you are pushing it back. The recent standing up to H about the car is an example. You have stood up to him times before regarding the car as well. And many other things too.

It is not victim mentality that has you stuck, it is martyr. They are closely tied. I believe that one progresses from victim, to martyr, to free.

Iíve suffered in both - victimhood and martyrdom. I found victimhood is darker, more painful, and I was less in control. Martyrdom had similar victim traits, it was just based more on self punishment or penance; I kept myself tied to it, and it was a lot harder to let go of.

You spoke of doing things to show how good a person you are. To show H, your kids, the courts - to show God. To suffer enough to become healed and good.

Gerda, listen very carefully. You are a good person. You are walking in the light. God knows you are good.

So, what did I learn under the long graceful arms of those trees?

When I was exhibiting martyr thinking, I wouldíve died for what I believe in. I would accept punishment for my faith, my beliefs. I felt that it was somehow required. Everyday, I died a little more. Punished a little more.

Itís easy to die for what you believe in. The big step - Living for what you believe in.

Living is so much better!

Gerda, you already walk in the light. Now, live in the light. Live your life. Let go of the idea of needing to show how good you are. You are good - just live it.

Almost nothing changes and everything changes when you let go. You live the faith, a good life, without the penance or punishment. It is sincere, authentic, gentle, and peaceful.

Your struggles with the ďimpossibleĒ choices. Your faith and moulding it to your situation. Things you would die for. Living for them doesnít change them or lose them. It strengthens the very things you are holding so tightly.

You know the light. Let go and live it.

DnJ
Posted By: Westo

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/28/19 05:41 PM

Wonderful words, as always, from you DnJ.

Iím sure they will bring enormous strength to Gerda.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/29/19 03:13 AM

Hi, Job -- Thank you for the kind words and insight. About writing to the wife -- my H would have to make a deal with me if he did not have a very rich man paying for a very nasty lawyer. I need to stop that flow of money in order to save myself and my kids. Letting his wife know it is happening is the surest way to do that. I know this because he loaned us money once for our biz, and I sent him repayment checks every month. It was only for a few thousand dollars, but once his wife opened the mail addressed to him and was furious beyond belief that he had loaned us money. So I am almost certain that she will be furious about this, which is way more money for a way more terrible cause. I am not trying to convince her of anything. It is purely my last ditch effort to force my H to settle with me and stop battling every penny so viciously simple because he has limitless legal fees. I know it might backfire. She either knows about it and thinks something horrible and untrue about me so my letter will do nothing or she doesn't know about it and will not want her husband spending their money in that way and my letter will stop the flow. So I have nothing to lose. They already think I am crazy and hiding money and all sorts of other things that are not true. It can't get worse. I was very careful not to say anything about my H's treatment of me and the kids, just spoke about the money being spent.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/29/19 03:30 AM

DnJ, thank you for all the time you spent and especially for being so careful to let me know that we were sitting at the table together with our favorite heavy cream, even if we were being filmed by the DB community for future DB lessons. : ) So I made strawberry biscuit-shortcake with whipped cream to have with our tea/coffee and conversation.

I will need to read this a few times. Usually when you give me one of your DnJ outreaches, there is a practical side that is eluding me -- I don't know how to DO what you are saying. I need to read it over to see if that is what is blocking me right now or if it is something else. There is for me a very real IRL thing at present which I have alluded to but not explained. You have always been good at reading between the lines, so you may understand that I have been allowing an erosion of certain values in action though my values in principle have not changed at all. Distractions, not real futures. A serious erosion either way.

More in a few days after I chew on your words. Gerda as Cow.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/29/19 03:43 PM

Have had a wild round of e-mails with H when I said he could have the car if he paid me what he owes me for tickets and my half of it. I stuck to facts and numbers; he of course did not. The culmination was this one. What I find also very MLC about this is that for our entire marriage, we had issues with intimacy. He was for the most part not able to be intimate with me that often, though we were very physically affectionate and almost never apart. I am not saying I was perfect, I made many mistakes of course. But I wanted so much to be romantic with him, wrote him love poems for every birthday and anniversary, tried to have date nights, tried to be intimate and was always sad about that part of our life. But even in knowing that, I read what he wrote and feel a pang of confusion.

And if you wanted to be fundamentally in the identity of "mother" and to in that fundamental identity, as you say, "take care of the kids," then I'd recommend taking them out of the experience of poverty which mysteriously you gratuitously (unnecessarily) handcuff them to.

And alternatively had you ever wanted to be fundamentally in the identity of "wife" then I'd have (if I were you) drastically rethunk and reconfigured what it might mean to be "wife" -- for what I mean is that your email pressuposes that you (as a Catholic wife?!) have no fundamental priorities to an identity called "husband," and that the whole of reality consists of taking care of the kids.

It was your choice to be "mother" -- and now own it, but do not presume to believe that I abandoned the kids, bit rather own up and man up to the truth that you abandon your husband by giving zero priority to his basic needs as a man and husband.

And how in good conscience you can pretend to assist with Cana classes I have no idea. I only know that you and the Church which enlists you for that task are together the blind leading the blind. If my kids were to learn from you what fidelity between a husband and wife should be they would be marital cripples. In seeking the dissolution of my marriage I am hoping to teach what marriage should never be.

- H
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/29/19 04:44 PM

Gerda,

I find it very difficult to follow your H's e-mail. He sure has a way with words! It makes me wonder if he spoke like that, too.

Anyway....His "observations" about you not fulfilling your "wifely duties" is typical MLC'r rewriting of history. My H did the same. I'm trying to talk to him about one thing, and he will suddenly say "you never showed desire, never made me feel like a man". The fact is, any time I would compliment him, tell him he was handsome, sexy, or whatever, I got "you're just saying that because you are my wife". Fact is, he just could never receive what I had to offer. I don't think he believed he was worthy. Still don't. I also pointed out to H the last time I saw him that he gave me nothing to feed that desire (I didn't add he was giving it all elsewhere). He agreed.

So, your H will rewrite history, and believe what he believes.

I would suggest leaving it alone. No response is necessary. Do not get into a position where you feel like you have to defend yourself.

Limit contact. Stay the course. Tighten your Armour of God.

Grace
Posted By: kml

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/29/19 07:37 PM

Gerda - how can you not see what a gigantic A$$ your H is? I mean seriously, every time I read one of his passive aggressive self-important weirdo letters I want to vomit.

And he was never very sexual with you? I have to ask, do you think he might be gay? Or just asexual?

As for the poverty issue - why isn't he busy earning a living to support his family?

Honestly, there is something VERY WRONG with this man. I'm not sure exactly what it is but he's NOT RIGHT IN THE HEAD. Stop letting him gaslight you.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/30/19 02:26 AM

Hi, Grace -- He was always a little heady, but we are both pretty intellectual. Now he is unintelligible. In fact I tried to edit his dissertation chapters for him several times since BD, and it would take me many days, and he would always say that I changed the meaning and not use what I did, no matter how hard I worked on it. What you are seeing in the notes I post is the disintegration of his mind and the descent into total madness. But lately I realize he thinks I am the crazy one. The projection is amazing. He also used to be really funny and would make fun of anyone who would act so dramatic and ridiculous as he now acts.

I'm also wondering how he knew about the pre-Cana classes. I only did it a few times and have never mentioned it to anyone. So he must be really hunting somewhere.

Thanks for sharing your experience (and prayers) with me -- it really helps me keep my head on straight. As does your friendship! XOXO
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/30/19 02:41 AM

Thanks for stopping in, KML. You are always very passionate on my behalf! : )

I think what I am seeing is a little different than what you see because I knew him before. To me these e-mails, however horrible they are, are more about the unraveling of his mind and soul than about what kind of man he was. I am always shocked to see the disintegration of his mind. It's one of my battles, to accept this reality, that he is not changing back to himself. At least not for a long time.

I did not mean he was never sexual. We had good times for sure. But it wasn't the easy part of our relationship, there was a block. He was abused as a child, in many ways. I just didn't realize until MLC hit that trauma could completely change a person like this.

The poverty thing -- his main rewrite not only of history but of the present is about money. We have none, and he has not earned more than 16K/yr in many years, and I don't see a penny of that. But our house is worth a lot and has rental income. So his obsession is that I am hiding money and that I will sell it so he can live off of the equity. He doesn't think he should have to work because he thinks he'll be rich. And he seems to have forgotten about why I wouldn't want to undertake a sale with him. He has forgotten about when he told me he wanted to sell it so he could marry the OW. He has forgotten about all our debts. And he has forgotten about all he did to lose my trust in business and in life, so he doesn't know why I am so intent on separating everything and refusing to pay anything of his. He also believes that he will finally get justice in court. He still doesn't see how no one gets real justice there.
Posted By: Gordie

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/30/19 03:09 PM

I donít want to get caught up in the semantics of words.

Ignore the word victim.

I believe that suffering is universal.

We all face some sort of sufferingósome greater than others.

In the face of terrible suffering, it is common to lose hope and feel powerless. When that happens, it is common to get to a very dark place where one seeks to either drown/escape the pain (alcohol/suicide). I am not saying that is where you are. I am saying to remember the opposite: as long as one is alive, there is always hope and choice/empowerment.

A little side story. A Holocaust survivor tells of a night in Auschwitz. Her mother and father had been killed that day. She and her sister were teenagers. So what do they do? They and their cell mates decide to take off their tops and have a best boobs contest. Frivolous? Crazy? Yes, but also a moment in which to laugh and remember that they were still silly teenage girls somewhere in their souls. Those who could not remember that and only fully absorbed all the death and suffering around them understandably lost the will to go on, to live.
Posted By: kml

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 07/30/19 05:01 PM

Gerda - let's assume for a moment that his mind IS unraveling, that he has prefrontal dementia or some such. (Although I suspect he was always a jerk and you just saw what you hoped to see in him - I know, I'm guilty of that too, my ex's narcissism didn't really become clear to me until after he left although in retrospect it was always there.) He is not severe enough for you to get a court order to give you control over him. His family doesn't acknowledge his mental decline. And he is refusing to hear you or get any help.

At this point your job is DONE. You cannot control every thing that happens to the other person. I couldn't stop my ex from divorcing me even though I knew his two concussions in 3 weeks just prior to his asking had something to do with it. Sometimes we simply cannot save them from themselves. (And sometimes this is who they really were all along - even with the concussions, I have to admit that my ex's issues weren't caused by the concussions, only slightly worsened by them.)

Accept that you cannot save him and let go so that you can save YOURSELF and your children.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/02/19 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by kml


At this point your job is DONE. ....

Accept that you cannot save him and let go so that you can save YOURSELF and your children.


Hi, KML -- Oh yes, we totally agree on those two counts. That's where all my energy goes.

H was deeply flawed, yes, as was/am I; but no, he wasn't like always like this. He is totally unrecognizable to everyone we knew before, including my kids. He even looks like he is possessed. But I think you are totally right that in the practical world it doesn't matter. I think on a practical level I am mostly able to be pragmatic and to take things as they are. I post here at times when I am spiraling but mostly I see that in a practical sense, I have to proceed on face value.

I know my job is done, I just don't think God's job is done. That's where I carry a cross. It would be much easier to drop that cross. I can't drop it until I am clear that that's what God wants. I am thankful that my faith has for the most part saved me from deepest bitterness and rage. I am just not clear yet on my stand. But I will let you all know when I am!
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/02/19 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Gerda
I know my job is done, I just don't think God's job is done. That's where I carry a cross. It would be much easier to drop that cross. I can't drop it until I am clear that that's what God wants. I am thankful that my faith has for the most part saved me from deepest bitterness and rage. I am just not clear yet on my stand. But I will let you all know when I am!


Gerda - IMO, it's not your cross to carry. That's the job of Jesus. Let Him take that burden from you. God's job indeed may not be done with regards to your H. In my case, I believe it is just gearing up. I believe that God is using me as a tool to help my H through his crisis. There has been significant e-mail exchanges this week between us. It's coming to the boiling point, I can feel it. But, I don't feel burdened by it. I'm praying daily about guidance on how to interact/respond to H, but I've given up the responsibility for H.

Drop the cross. Turn it over to Jesus. Gaze upon it instead, and let it uplift you.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/02/19 01:56 PM

Good morning, Grace. I totally hear you and love your thoughts; I think I was not being clear. Or it might be a Catholic-Protestant thing! : )

The cross is my sorrow at losing my marriage, and the fact that I feel that I can't close the door entirely. I am not carrying my H anymore, or his cross. A priest I love once told me that H is being crucified in sin and I am being crucified in love, and I used to think about standing at that cross with him, in love. Now I don't even want to look at H, whether he is suffering or not. Sometimes I even find it too difficult to pray for him, let alone feel I could do anything to help him.

I think what I meant about carrying the cross is that I don't feel that I can close the door, move on, fall in love with someone else to cover over the wound. And what I am going through with my kids is so painful, just watching them suffer like this, I find that I want to escape from that pain and that I am constantly asking for mercy from that for my kids and thus for me. I think also that if when I am past this divorce proceeding, I will not have as much of a burden. But the onslaught from my H -- financial, emotional, practical -- is constant, and exhausting. I am going to post when I have a moment about how the appraisal went. But in short -- nothing goes peacefully, everything is a huge vicious attack, no matter how much I try to step back and not get pulled in.

I do pray everyday for Christ to carry that burden for me. Sometimes I literally use my hands to pull on the pain in my chest when I am at the altar, to give it to Christ. And it lifts at times, and I feel free. But from what I have seen around these parts, there is no way around that consequence of MLC. It will always hurt, no matter how much joy we are able to fill our lives with in other ways. Look at all the old timers who are still here, still posting and reading these stories. And then there is the loneliness of this un-family life. When you have young kids, it's really awful. Even my MIL won't speak to me or send things to the kids to my house, only to H's apartment, though they live here full time and my son won't see his dad at all. After 24 years of being family and seeing me through cancer and the death of my mom, she told me she never wanted to see me again and would only see my kids if I sent them to her alone. That is a cross, to walk entirely alone now. It's a blessing too, I am so grateful to be here after cancer to be able to see my kids through this, but it is HARD.
Posted By: SBJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/02/19 03:08 PM

Gerda...thanks for responding on my tread...I responded to you there, but I read yours here and wanted to respond.

I had two guys that are in our deacon program tell me tell me that if God is going to bring your spouse home, there is nothing on earth that can stop him. They were saying that I needed to put all of my focus onto me, my kids, and our life.

I agree with your priest friend in saying that they are carrying the burden of sin on their shoulders and all we can do for them at this point is to love unconditionally and to pray for them.

His will / His way / His timing!
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/03/19 08:56 PM

Hello Gerda

Strawberry biscuit-shortcake. Yummy. smile

Originally Posted by Gerda
Usually when you give me one of your DnJ outreaches, there is a practical side that is eluding me -- I don't know how to DO what you are saying.

I do care about you Gerda and will offer some actual things to do - to live for what you are willing to die for.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...what I meant about carrying the cross is that I don't feel that I can close the door, move on, fall in love with someone else to cover over the wound. And what I am going through with my kids is so painful, just watching them suffer like this, I find that I want to escape from that pain and that I am constantly asking for mercy from that for my kids and thus for me.

Absolutely. Covering over the wound will not work. That is your Hís path.

Turn around, face your pain. Stop asking for mercy. Pain is motivation for change. Embrace that.

Originally Posted by Gerda
The cross is my sorrow at losing my marriage, and the fact that I feel that I can't close the door entirely. I am not carrying my H anymore, or his cross. A priest I love once told me that H is being crucified in sin and I am being crucified in love, and I used to think about standing at that cross with him, in love.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...from what I have seen around these parts, there is no way around that consequence of MLC. It will always hurt, no matter how much joy we are able to fill our lives with in other ways. Look at all the old timers who are still here, still posting and reading these stories. And then there is the loneliness of this un-family life.

This is that mentality I was talking about. The victim/martyr. It is hard to see a way out of. Perhaps a loving and trusted friend, reaching down, hand under your elbow, encouraging you to rise.

Look at this, dispassionately. From within your intellectual car. Rationalize this. See it without all the emotion and fear.

ďthere is no way around that consequence of MLCĒ - really? Is that what you believe is in my future?

ďIt will always hurt, no matter how much joy we are able to fill our lives withĒ - Always hurt? I really donít hurt, and my life has joy. Yes there is still pain, hurt, sorrow, anger, etc.. all very small and very fleeting. Without the dark we cannot recognize the light. It just doesnít consume anymore.

ďAnd then there is the loneliness of this un-family life.Ē - Un-family life? Only a spouse has left. Family can exist in many many different formats.

ďLook at all the old timers who are still here, still posting and reading these storiesĒ - Although I do not consider myself an old timer. Why do you think I post? Am I stuck?


Turn, face it, and come at this sideways.

Ask S14 for his specific help with repairs or things of that nature. It will feed him. It will take time to get him to come around, so keep the faith. Show him a better path, by being the better path.

Play another board game. Play a group video game. Play cards around the dinner table. D10, S14, and Gerda.

I know you post mostly when upset, spinning, and when things are getting troubled. And I do realize that your life is not full-time like as posted. There are plenty of good times as well. Times when you are not even carrying the cross. When you realize that, let it be. Wait another hour before picking it up again. Then two hours. And so on. It is a progress of small increments.

I cannot remember when I stopped picking up my cross. God does carry it, and we take it back from him. Time after time. With infinite patience He allows us to grow and find peace within His embrace.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/04/19 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by DnJ
Look at this, dispassionately. From within your intellectual car. Rationalize this. See it without all the emotion and fear.

ďthere is no way around that consequence of MLCĒ - really? Is that what you believe is in my future?

Although I do not consider myself an old timer. Why do you think I post? Am I stuck?



I owe you much more than this short reply. But I don't think of you this way. You are some kind of superhero, complete with green cape. And I am sorry to say but compared to me you are a Baby LBS-er! You have been here for two years. I am on year seven. I have been through so many stages with this, though as you have noted, I mostly only post when I am in the darkest place.

And it may not seem that way but at this point I am personally totally detached, as far as my R wit H. I never think about missing H, for example, or think about wanting him to love me, for the first four years, I longed for him so deeply. I enjoy my work life and my creative work and I even started walking with a little more girlish strut in my step as I realize I am not completely dead yet. I even have a meeting with a new agent (I don't want to say too much but I have an agent for one of my creative works and this would be another area so I would have two!).

For me it is only the family side of things. It's not wanting to be a single mom with no extended family. The loneliness is killing me. I really and truly do try to find community in other places, and I do have some. But it's not the same as what you often write about with these glorious times with your family and parents, etc. It's not how I grew up, even after my parents' divorce, with tons of extended family around all the time. We almost never even hang out with my brother, and he lives in my city but is always too busy with his life and has very different values. I do find some happy moments with my kids and try to show them the best life I can. But mostly it's extremely hard and I am always struggling financially in an almost dangerous way. My kids and I are almost always alone and very lonely, we have a few friends and family that appear once in a while.

But I hear you, just keep looking for ways to do/be something positive instead of fighting a negative space/definition. You'll be glad to know we are leaving for ten days for my favorite place.

But -- I've been at it for seven years, my darlin, and I am really really tired. Attention from men has been confusing for me of late, another thing I will not go too deeply into now but I can tell that I am adjusting my ideas to what is in front of me instead of what following what I believe.

I will write more later.... Thank you for always being there for me.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/07/19 04:43 AM

Job or whoever knows -- I am wondering if many here have written about the MLCer trying on same sex attraction/activity as part of replay. I have no evidence of that happening in my case and I do know that there was at least one OW so far, but I have wondered if there were posts about this here, if it was ever part of the spiral since everything else is also opposite. The fact that a male friend is paying my H's legal fees (as a loan I assume) when that friend knew us for years, is godfather to my kids and knows that I was standing for the marriage has given me some pause.
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/07/19 11:46 AM

Gerda,

There are/were a few who experimented with same sex attraction/activity as part of replay. You have to remember that when in replay, they are back to their teens and teens tend to have best buds who are very close to them, they hang w/them, on the phone w/them and have each other's backs in the mix. There have been some who were very close to their friends and hung out w/them while in crisis so much so that their behavior was questionable to all who saw them. You have to remember that during the crisis, they are curious and will experiment because they are free to so, i.e., just like teens do.

Gerda, I may be wrong, but I think your h and his friend are just that...friends and he is helping him out of a so called bad situation. You do not have any idea what your h has told him. They do love to play the victim when it comes to getting others to help them. There is nothing you can do about your h's friend assisting him. If that friend is dumb enough to provide funds to your h for his divorce, then that is on him. You can't control what other people do or think.

Keep the focus on you and your children.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/07/19 01:49 PM

Thank you, Job, that makes a lot of sense about the teen friend closeness, I think you wrote about that before but I had forgotten. It really is like that for kids/teens, so that makes sense.

Honestly that issue is not something I would have thought and I was trying not to say too much about it here, but a number of people have asked me about it, unsolicited by me. Usually it is an assumption made based on something they saw. I always brush it off and put it in the same file I put their comments when they ask if he is doing drugs or when they ask me where my God is, etc, but I started to wonder if it was something I needed to consider/face about my past and future with him. I think if God can heal anything, but I also want to be clear-headed.

Lately I also notice that his relationship with D10 is like that, what you are saying about teen friendships. It's not like a father and daughter but like two desperate besties in middle school. It's very desperate and cloying. in addition to talking about me in a very confusing way -- e.g., criticizing me and saying I am hiding money but then telling her he feels sorry for me and loves me -- he texts her way too much, she is always anxious about when he will call or when he will text, if he will be mad at her, etc. He told her he was going to get two tattoos -- some design but also her initials, which happen to be his initials as well. He used to make fun of people who got tattoos. It's all scripted, I know. Seems like he went into replay six years ago, started to climb out of it two years ago, and then plunged back in full throttle in Jan 2018. And here we are.

I am keeping the focus on me and my kids but I am in a period of deep questioning about my stand and so I can't not think of some of these things as I sift through my past and future a little. Mostly I try to do what my best friend advised, which is to just live hour by hour. But sometimes you have to take a look at things.
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/10/19 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am keeping the focus on me and my kids but I am in a period of deep questioning about my stand and so I can't not think of some of these things as I sift through my past and future a little. Mostly I try to do what my best friend advised, which is to just live hour by hour. But sometimes you have to take a look at things


I too am questioning my stand. Praying lots about it. I don't know if I have it in me anymore. I'm not making any decisions right now, as my emotions are raw (I posted about it). But, events are unfolding and time will bring answers. As for living hour by hour, that is a good plan, but I agree that sometimes we have to look at a bigger picture. After all, I think it's fair as we need to plan about for our future, and looking at all the angles is part of that.

(((hugs)))
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/11/19 12:53 PM

Grace -- I still believe that standing is the best way. It's me that I am questioning. So the questioning is challenging my view of who I am in Christ. I'm still reading that amazing book about Father Arseny, I think I mentioned it to you and I truly recommend it. But it is showing me many things about faith, about the gift of yourself to others -- but also about how God's will is going to be done even if you fight it. I think I am not sure about God's will anymore, as far as my H goes. I am not positive my marriage was in His will to begin with. But I am also not sure if I am making excuses. I still do not see myself remarrying or having a man around my kids. But I think I am trying to surrender my ideas of the future and just live in today as the small way that I can try to get closer to God. I don't trust God with my future right now but I still trust Him with my present, so I am trying to go with that.

So many terrible terrible things have happened. I haven't been writing them here. I never even told the rat story I promised DnJ but it changed from being a little bit funny to a set-up for something that got worse after --- THE appraisal is a source of huge stress already because the court appointed an appraiser that cost $1200 instead of the ones I found that cost $600, and I finally had to agree because H wouldn't budge - and then his L called the appraiser and told her I was running a business at the house and so she changed the price to $4500. So there was no way I could pay H his August payment, which I already couldn't afford. I normally never write to him but I was desperate, I kept asking him to allow another appraiser if he wanted to get paid Aug 1 and he wouldn't answer but in between would write those horrible abusive e-mails that I sometimes post here. So the morning of the appraisal I was freaking out about the bill and how it would clean me out and I would get in trouble with the court at the next conference.

We had been told that we weren't allowed to be at the appraisal, so I was going let them in and then disappear, and S14 was home as well. I have the rental units and a dog so my excuse was going to be that I couldn't let them go around without me, but I knew that meeting me would get me a little sympathy because I am a great gal in person, and it's obvious I am just a mom trying to hold on to her home. I was joking with a friend that I was going to leave syringes and rat carcasses around for the appraisal. But I had been looking at a lot of comps from broker newsletters and getting confidence about what I think the house is worth, there have been setbacks in my ability to refi but I kept thinking, just one step at a time, it will become clear if you have to sell it. So I am waiting for the appraiser to show up and she is late, so I get nervous, waiting, waiting. Then I finally call my L and he hadn't told me they changed the time, so I start getting really anxious about waiting and missing work. Then I look out the window and saw H standing outside with another man, and he has been forbidden by the court from being there, and what is most gross is that H is laughing with this very smug and evil smile on his face, like he is on the top of the world. It's so evil that it literally chills me to the bone. I freak out and call my L, and we start a series of calls back and forth, the usual screaming, calls to the court, and while this is happening, S14 starts screaming from upstairs in the shower -- apparently a RAT ran through the bathroom while he was there! So then I am freaking out because there is a rat in the house -- good for me for the appraisal but horrifying for me personally and for the rental units. I am trying to call a handyman, a pest guy, and in between the calls to court and L. I see the other guy still standing out front, so I go outside thinking he could be the appraiser and say, "Can I help you?" And as soon as he starts walking toward me with his linen pants and tanned skin, I know he is a broker. He says, "Oh, hi, I am a friend of H," and I instantly say, "No, you are not a friend. You are a broker and you are not allowed to be here." He admits he is a broker. And things go from there, more phone calls, screaming, the appraiser shows up and refuses to come inside unless I find a friend and disappear from the house, every time I go in, my son is screaming about the rat, I go back outside and the appraiser is standing there with the broker! I say to her, "You know that is a broker, right?" And she says, "No, that's a friend of your H's." And I said, "No, tell her," to the broker, and he admits it, she freaks out, calls the court, I run to find a neighbor to show them the house, my neighbor finally shows up and I start sobbing hysterically from the tension (not in front of appraiser), and then finally the appraisal happens. And on Aug 1, I send H only $500, which I can't even afford, and say I will send more as the month goes on but that I am out of money from paying appraiser.

A few days later I leave for a 10-day trip to my favorite place, which is on an island a few hours from my city. I stay in a share house and do some work there so I get a very low rate; I was going to rent out my apartment to pay for it but now have to pay the money to H, but I am making peace with having no money and trying to be still and enjoy the beauty. Good things are happening here -- I am starting to relax a little, getting some work done and some family time, I even found S14 a job with some contractors I know there and it is miraculous the effect being around a bunch of working guys is having on him, even though at night we still have to have our long walks about his thoughts of drugs, suicide, etc. And on day three, I get a call from my L that I have to go back to court the next day because H has filed an emergency motion for contempt of court because I didn't pay, and he has put all kinds of extra stuff in it, like demanding a forced sale of our rental house to take place that week! I did not go back to the city but I had to pay my L to go and defend me. The judge was furious that H and his L were wasting the court's time after I was only 7 days late and had started paying, and she refused to hear any of the pork barrel add-ons, but she had to be fair since I was under court order to pay him, and so she gave me only 7 days to come up with the rest. And I ended up having to make a deal about giving him our car and taking what he owes me on tickets and boots only out of his share of the asset when we settle or go to trial! But the thing is, our car is not going to pass inspection in the fall, so it was about to be junked anyway, I don't know why he even fought for it since he can't afford to pay to fix it or even really afford gas and insurance.

The next day a clogged pipe broke in one of our guest apartments and I had another crazy story of how I managed to get it fixed myself, and the day after that I had to spend four hours cleaning out our dark airless wet basement with this crazy guy who lives in our neighborhood so I could put down rat traps!!!

It is amazing to me that H can see from bank statements, etc., that I am completely out of money, literally have just hundreds of dollars left for the rest of the summer til my work starts back up in the fall, and he does not care that I have no way to feed/clothe the kids or pay the mortgage, he is obsessed with getting his payment, and even in this incredibly self-righteous way as if I am the one wronging him. He does not think he should have to work but only that I should have to sell, he doesn't think of the impact on his kids, especially S, of having to sell and move right as school is starting, and he doesn't understand that even if we settled tomorrow, it would take months to sell and settle and we would still have to pay all our bills in the interim.

Seeing how bent on my destruction he is is scary to me. I accept that he is in MLC, so intellectually I am not really angry with him. I don't want anything to do with him but I know that anger is useless with an MLCer, and I can only make my way through the rubble. But I am still personally bowled over by the onslaught of evil from him and from his L. It is hard to watch and to constantly be dragged back in to it. I go to court almost once a month now and always only one tiny thing gets done and always it is a screaming horror show. I just can't believe how all this has progressed to this point. I went from trying to drag it out and not participate to praying for a rapid end to the whole proceeding, even though it ends with me as a divorced woman.
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/11/19 02:21 PM

Gerda,

If you have to sell the house, where would you consider living? I hate to say this, but it just might be a "relief" for you and your family to sell the house and move into another place, i.e., w/less headaches of constantly having things break down. I know you are adamant about keeping this place, but if I were in your shoes, I would seriously consider selling and moving. The place is dragging you down financially and your children need a place that doesn't have so much negativity in it as well as the constant repair issues.

There comes a time when you need to realize that you can't win every war, and will need to choose your battles wisely. From where I am sitting, I would seriously think about selling the home because at this rate, you will not be debt free of the problems with it for many years, if then. Putting band aids on the problems will just bring those issues back around at a later date. The house needs a serious rehab to take care of those issues and you do not have the money to do these things.

Your h wants his share of the assets regardless of whether he worked on not. In some states, the court will drop the hammer and the other working spouse has to pay spousal support and fork over half of the assets. I do not know what your state says about such things, but you need to be on your toes because the only way that you are going to get any relief from this madness is to settle up and move forward. You can still stand, but you've got to get rid of him and let his anger settle down. The more you try to reason w/everyone and tell them you have no money, the more fuel you are putting on his anger fire. This tug of war will not end soon until someone says "enough" and makes some decisions about all of the assets.

Gerda, the only way that you are going to get through this madness is to start looking at all of this as a business deal gone south and leave the emotions on the street. I know it's been h3ll on you, but you've got to toughen up and use your business skills now.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/11/19 03:49 PM

Job, it is not a house but a business. I am just trying to hold on to my business. If I can't refi, I plan to sell. I am seeing things very clearly as a business woman only but I can't talk about the details of the business or the house value here. I have made my peace with losing the business. I already lost one business because of H's MLC, and I know this one might be next, but it will be amazing for me if I can hold on to it. It all depends on the refi, and if it doesn't happen, that will be that, I will be at peace about selling.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/11/19 06:58 PM

Hello Gerda

Thanks for sharing about the rat. That would have freaked me out too. I bet S14 was pretty wound up.

Iím glad the appraisal is done. It sure was an ordeal. What was H doing there with a broker anyhow? On that day, at that time. Suspiciously weird. I think you were dealing with three rats that day.

I am sorry on how hard all this is on you. I really do feel for you. Being me, and accurate - you are in a better place, a good place. It shows in your postings. Thoughtful, more emotionally stable.

I do understand the questioning of your faith or trust at the moment. You will figure it out, and find your way, of that I have no doubt.

I am proud and impressed with you Gerda. Your H is h3ll bent on divorce, I know a little of how that feels. Youíve done all you could to delay; and now you are praying and moving towards finding a quick resolution. Much respect.

DnJ
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/11/19 07:33 PM

Gerda -

You are an amazing woman. Handling all that you do. You are strong, and amazing. Events are unfolding for which you have no control over. God must be guiding them though, but I understand how it's hard for us to envision his master plan. You are doing a marvelous job to handling what life is throwing at you.

Thanks for the reminder about Father Arseny. I actually had forgetten. I'll look into it today.

(((Gerda)))

Grace
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/16/19 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by DnJ
What was H doing there with a broker anyhow? On that day, at that time. Suspiciously weird. I think you were dealing with three rats that day.

I am sorry on how hard all this is on you. I really do feel for you. Being me, and accurate - you are in a better place, a good place. It shows in your postings. Thoughtful, more emotionally stable.

I do understand the questioning of your faith or trust at the moment. You will figure it out, and find your way, of that I have no doubt.

I am proud and impressed with you Gerda. Your H is h3ll bent on divorce, I know a little of how that feels. Youíve done all you could to delay; and now you are praying and moving towards finding a quick resolution. Much respect.

DnJ


First, about the broker -- In H's addled mind, he thought he could outwit everyone by pretending that he had sent a friend to "represent" him. I guess he thought that a broker could secretly influence the appraiser to inflate the value of the house? Or that a broker could get a first foot in the door for when I am forced to sell, as if I would use that broker? Honestly it makes no sense whatsoever. But what does with MLC? Consider that H still thinks I am hiding/stealing money and mismanaging everything, despite extremely clear numbers now being on court record.

About the rest -- I read this with interest and then had to notice what I was doing in response. Maybe because I am a woman (e.g., when someone says, "you look pretty," we want to explain all the things that are in fact not pretty), but I noticed that I did not believe you. I was thinking that either I must have sounded terrible before, and this seemed almost humiliating, or that you were just trying to be supportive and that it wasn't true! I could not actually take it at face value. I am not fishing here, but becoming aware at the rather dark state of Gerda's overall confidence level, despite what is admittedly a clearer head.

This past week I am still at the beautiful island but things continued to happen with tax issues, court, etc., and I kept having to deal with those things and then with S14's evening spirals. I speak to my best friend a lot but on Monday when a new thing happened I realized that I couldn't call her any more as I couldn't hear myself talk about another disaster. I had a big talk with God and realized something important, I think as a result of reading the Father Arseny book -- that I get tempted at times to ask God why all this is happening, or to be angry with God or tell him it's too much and I can't take it anymore or it's not fair, etc. But that really most of what is happening to me are the natural consequences of man-made crises -- e.g., a tax levy froze all my accounts this week and I had to spend two days dealing with that. But really, that was the direct consequence of financial disasters that happened with our first business when H started his MLC and then I had cancer. Now finally six years later, I can't put off dealing with it anymore. So really it is an opportunity to start shoveling one of the many piles of cr#p that have been left. In thinking this I was able to feel a little lighter about it, like, okay, yes, finally I will deal with that pile, and then it's on to the next and maybe soon there will be almost no MLC-related piles left.

But I do notice that I am extremely burdened by what has happened to S14 and what is unfolding in his life. I see all of it as the outcome of the MLC. I know the MLC is not my fault and yet I feel horrible about the life I have given him and how crippling it is for him. I am constantly catching myself trying to fix it, or fix S14, and when I try to recognize that I am doing that and give it to God, I then have to recognize that I am still not trusting God with S14. I am dreading the present times with him and I am dreading the future outcomes. Yes, jumping the gun, doing all that I shouldn't. But at least I am recognizing these things more clearly than before.

And now a walk on the beach in the moonlight.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/17/19 12:43 AM

Hello Gerda

A walk on the beach in moonlight - that sounds lovely.

ďAbout the restĒ...

It is interesting that you didnít (donít ?) believe me. I do understand the temporary inability for one to see their accomplishments and accept positive feedback. And yes the low confidence level, I remember that well.

Iíve been in the ocean of non-confidence, sunk low in the numbing waters, skin wrinkled with exposure, like too much time in the tub. I felt like a fraud. My confidence with my skills at work were very low, even with otherís positive comments about them. My parenting felt fraudulent as well. It was difficult to see my way out of that.

Rise out of the water and let the drops fall upon the beach.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...I noticed that I did not believe you. I was thinking that either I must have sounded terrible before, and this seemed almost humiliating, or that you were just trying to be supportive and that it wasn't true! I could not actually take it at face value.

I am supportive of you. I believe being untrue isnít being supportive.

Please donít feel humiliated, you didnít sound terrible before - you just sound better and better.

When I look back at my thinking and feelings I just have to laugh at myself. Yes, it is a bit humiliating - at first. Then I accept where I was and how messed up and hurt I was. Oh, the things I thought and believed. Lol.

Gerda, you have nothing to be humiliated for! Just look at what youíve live through, struggled through, and still shined in spite of it all. Rise up, youíve earned it.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...when someone says, "you look pretty," we want to explain all the things that are in fact not pretty

You know the big stop sign the MWD talks about? Use it here. Accept that you are not what your H projects, not even close.

Gerda, Iíve read your posts for quite a while. Even between the lines. smile I think I know you fairly well, the person on the other side of this screen. The inner you.

You are pretty.

And donít give me a list of how you arenít. Or a list to yourself either. Make a list of how you are.

- - - -

We are sitting again just two enjoying a drink and snack. In person would definitely cut down the lag time between our responses.

I am sorry for how burdened you feel regarding whatís happened to S14 and the events unfolding.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am dreading the present times with him and I am dreading the future outcomes.

Dreading.

I hope you know Iím here for you, if you want to share whatever fears you at this moment feel you can. Honestly, getting them out in the open does lessen their power and hold considerably. Fear doesnít survive well in the light.


Stand on the beach, droplets dripping and running down your skin. The numb waters shedding their hold upon you. In time the light will invigorate and warm you, all the way to your insides. Your confidence will build and return, affecting all aspects of your life.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/22/19 05:05 AM

DnJ, I didn't answer yet as there was so much in there -- and of course the many fires to put out when I got home.

I don't know if you read what actually happened on the moonlit walk, I posted it only on Grace's thread. It was an all-night wrestle with God, Jacob-to-Israel style. When I think of the silver light on my skin and on the sand and how I was yelling at God and crying but so full of His presence and the beauty of the ocean lit silver -- I feel an intense joy, even though my talk with God was extremely despairing and did not end with any new understanding or peace. But when I left the beach at about 3 am, the moon that had been filling the world went behind a cloud, and it was all dark and stayed that way my whole walk home and into bed, adding to my feeling that God had appeared just for those moments.

Obviously I loved what you wrote, especially the parts that you knew I would. I thought for a while if you really do know the person behind the screen, or if any of us could really know each other. We do put our worst selves here at times, and our best selves, so I suppose we see a lot, even the humiliations in that way help us to know each other. But we are as long distance as many of the MLC'ers and their OP's. Just, hopefully, unlike them, no lies, lots of truths. Even the ones we leave out or leave between the lines.

I am not sure I even want to be the kind of woman who makes those positive lists. But I do want to find peace. Lately the loneliness is INTENSE -- I find it is worst just in terms of being a single mom and struggling to do things all on my own, all the time though it is also for me now the feeling that I am tired of never having a man to love, let alone to love me. But for example -- even just like putting together a bed I brought from our upstate rental back to the city -- I painted it a really pretty color and painted a little heart on the side so I could put it in D10's room. (I had to take her bed into the other floor for the rental I created out of our lower floor so she was sleeping on a mattress on the floor.) And then I couldn't put it together and it sat for days as a reminder that I am alone with no H and no family to help and it was depressing me so much!

And then tonight I finally figured it out and put it together at last myself. She is sleeping on it now. Victory!

But it would be nice to sit here with some tea/coffee and naaimmooooonooanano bars talking about it. I think we should do it but let's invite Grace, SBJ, SJohn and Gordie. And bring your kids, they can walk around the city while the grown-ups unpack the ghosts of MLC-past and build up visions of our futures for a couple of hours.
Posted By: Westo

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/22/19 07:48 AM

Just popped in to your thread as I was answering Bttrfly on mine.

I just want to say how amazing I think you are. You really have been through H£ll over the last 7 years and still are.

I think if it wasnít for your faith you would have folded years ago. Iím so very proud of you building the bed, I know how daunting these things are when you donít have a man to do these things, but.....you did it!

You are in my thoughts a lot. Keep going...you are fabulous.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/23/19 01:58 AM

Hello Gerda

Originally Posted by Gerda
...the kind of woman who makes those positive lists

Well, Iím glad you arenít going to go all narcissistic. Haha. I just hope you know there is a list of pretty fine qualities about you, and it is ok to knowledge them - every now and then. smile

Yes, I did read about your moonlight walk on Graceís thread.

Bright moonlight shimmering, reflecting, off the calm water. Your skin aglow in the silver light. One on one time with God. That sounded like a special and lovely time.

I do remember that intense loneliness, and the struggles of being a single parent. As you well know, mine happened all in one night. Kind of like getting knocked out and when I came too I was alone, everything was chaos, and I had absolutely no help from my seemingly hours earlier loving spouse. smile Actually, it was just like that.

Gerda, you will get through this. Yeah, the single parent stuff is rough. And leads to some really wonderful moments and strong lifetime bonding with oneís kids.

That struggle to do all this on your own, I get it. Sometimes we just donít have enough hours in the day. So, donít sweat the small stuff. And the bigger stuff - you will figure it out. Just like building that bed. Boy oh boy, the stuff Iíve had to learn how to do. XW and I had our predominantly blue jobs and pink jobs around the house, now they are all purple jobs. smile

Your successful construction of D10ís bed, is great, and yes it is a victory. As the victories keep accumulating the struggle becomes less and less.

Coffee, tea, and Nanaimo bars, enjoyed with friends sounds great.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...while the grown-ups unpack the ghosts of MLC-past and build up visions of our futures for a couple of hours.

This had me thinking. It is really quite profound.

I realized my ghosts arenít packed away anymore. They are always out. Iíve embraced them. Dared them to try to scare me. Hugged and held them in the full light. They arenít even an annoyance anymore. Once in a while there is a faint boo, which withers pretty quickly. It is just the past, just life.

I can talk about XW, my situation, heck even met OM face to face, and go about my day.

I wonder when I unpacked my ghosts and chose not to pack them back away. Or did the ghosts just lose their scariness.

What a cool and strange realization, thanks for that.

DnJ
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/23/19 02:12 PM

Hello Gerda -

I am on the patio at my parents home enjoying a cup of coffee, a blanket draped over my shoulders to ward off the chilly morning air. The day is setting up to be spectacular. I'm catching up on my friends lives. My friends here.

Congrats on getting the bed put together and in your daughter's room. Relish in the small achievements. I believe all of these things that happen throughout the day are what gives us joy. Each one seems so insignificant - the laugh at a joke, hanging with the kids, baking a batch of cookies, or cleaning out a room to re-purpose it. But put together, they make up a life. Your life. And it will be wonderful again.

(((Gerda)))


Let me know when you are having us all over. I'd love to come.

Grace
Posted By: sjohns6

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/23/19 09:59 PM

I would definitely join you guys if you got together for a meet up!!

Gerda, I know exactly how you are feeling. This stuff is pretty hard sometimes. Always remember that you have friends that think of you often and know what you are about. There are days that I log in just to see how you are doing. You have people giving you great advice that I can't really add much to, but I do like to keep up with how you are doing.

(((Gerda)))
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/28/19 03:13 AM

Westo, I read your post some days back, and then I read it probably ten more times, it gave me such a lift. I have no idea what you are seeing that makes you say those nice things about me, but it is very nice to hear/read, and it really made my day that someone I admire so much thinks that about me. I know it will be very far for you, but you will have to come to the reunion we are planning. : )

Also I did look up the show you mentioned and saw a couple of very funny clips and now I know what you sound like and also what was the beginning for James Corden! (right?)
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/28/19 03:32 AM

DnJ, I always need a while to chew on your posts. Much like a naniammoaooooooooo bar.

I think your vision of me in the moonlight might be based on your possibly romanticized vision of me and of moonlit beaches and the potential therein. The silver moonlight, yes, the presence of God, powerfully yes -- but the girl in question was covered in tears and snot and sand, wind whipping her hair into a Medusa snake head and she is screaming at the sky and digging her fingernails into the grit. I like that image too. But I don't think it was very pretty.

I am very glad your ghosts are walking about in daylight and no longer scaring the bejoozumps out of you. Me and the ghosts are still wrestling nightly. And sometimes in daylight. I am not sure I am scared of them. But I do not have peace from them or for them or with them. I still fight them. But I forced myself, DnJ-style, to change the listing on my calendar for my next court date. Usually I wrote, "Horror." Or "Crucifixion." But I forced myself to write, "Bravery" on the next date. September 29, if you want to invite my ghosts over for tea that day. Bravery.

So when you come over with the gang for MLC Purge Weekend, you will need to bring some of your electrical equipment from work, as well as your work boots and your green cape, Ghostbusters-style.

This comedic interlude has been brought to you by SAD SACK.

P.S. This post was edited by Gerda. Reason -- she realized, yes, she is still scared of the ghosts. Still in denial. Still do not understand what God is allowing or why.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/28/19 03:37 AM

Grace, my dear, I loved the thought of you with a cup of coffee catching up with me. You are in my mind very similar to my prayer partner in Texas, I just know you would love her. We stood together after meeting in FL at Rejoice and then her H came back after her two-year stand. But once she sent me a photo of herself enjoying her morning coffee, and on the mug read the words, 'NOT TODAY, SATAN." She sent me one because I loved it so much. So I am picturing you drinking out of the same one.

As for the reunion -- consider this a permanent invitation, with or without the rest of the gang. I wonder if you have figured out where I live yet.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/28/19 03:39 AM

SAM, sjohn, I assure you that your checking in even with nothing particular to say is as just as helpful/valuable/wonderful as any advice anyone might give. I think everyone here is mostly looking for understanding friends, which are hard to find IRL, even when we have loving friends. NO ONE understands MLC except here. I am so touched and happy you care enough to follow my thread. I feel the same about you/yours.
Posted By: Westo

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/28/19 09:36 AM

Gerda,

Isnít this place wonderful? To think that a few words from someone you donít know far away can bring comfort.

And for me.......to learn Iím admired by you. Thank you!

And you watched a bit of Gavin and Stacie yes, thatís where James Corden started. He co wrote the series. Heís not very popular in the UK as heís thought of as a bit of a di*k.

But heís made it big in the US.....and the Brits are notorious for bringing people down, so may be the real reason heís not liked!
Posted By: SBJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/29/19 02:18 AM

Garda, thanks for spreading cheer to me as well as the poem. Times like those are difficult, but friends like you definitely help.

Should you ever organize a meeting of the minds ove tea, coffee, beer, or wine, please count me in.

And Westo, I have heard he's kind of the same here.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 08/30/19 11:55 AM

Good Morning Gerda

My romanticized vision of you and moonlit beaches leaned towards a woman arguing with God, digging her nail into the dirt, baring her soul and pain. Giving it over to God.

It is difficult, probably impossible, to hear His word when we are all riled up. Frothy and turbulent waters need to become calm. When one is calm, one can hear, one can listen. That is why it is wonderful to see you getting it out of you.

Bravery is much better than Horror or Crucification. On September 29, feel free to send you ghosts over to me for a visit, Iíll scare them. smile

And that is really the thing about it. They are your ghosts. You control them. You can send them away, and you can call them back for processing at a more convenient time. Canít banish them forever, need to accept them at some point.

Write, on your calendar, in brackets under Bravery - Just Business. A small step in uncoupling feelings from actions. DnJ-style smile . Youíll see those words for the next month, and it will get inside your head. And Ghostbusters is one of my favourite films.

Originally Posted by Gerda
P.S. This post was edited by Gerda. Reason -- she realized, yes, she is still scared of the ghosts. Still in denial. Still do not understand what God is allowing or why.

(((Gerda)))

Find the calm water. Answers are there and will present themselves.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/01/19 02:20 PM

I owe you all replies, Grace, SBJ, DnJ, Westo, but I am posting this morning just because I am really low. I am really battling spiritually because I do not want to give up standing but I have been struggling so much with my loneliness and my disbelief that God is allowing this to go on for so long and that now it has become so brutal. And honestly I just really want to love a man again, and to have a man love me even just a little, like for a week. : )

I also stupidly looked up H on the internet last night. His photos that he has posted just on his work profile and places like that are SO weird. He looks terrible and crazy, but he posted these as his best photos. A few years ago he wrote me, furious, about our AirB listing, where there was this beautiful happy family photo,but in which he weighed maybe 80 pounds more than he does now. He was so angry, I replaced it with a photo of me setting D's birthday cake in front of her, a very sweet photo of just us two!

But anyway I have to pay him each month on the 1st, today is the last payment on our agreement and they are trying to get me to keep paying until trial/settlement but I am totally out of money so I will be saying no, but it's going to be so ugly. I have been dreading it -- ye olde ghost, DnJ. Today is the 1st and I was going to PayPal him by tonight, was waiting til last minute obviously because I am so broke. And I ended up having to pay $500 in EZPass violations because before I gave him the car I checked to see if there was any money I owed on tolls, I had taken down the EZ Pass when I realized he was using it with no card attached to it anymore, and the tag was in my name. Well, he owed $550 in violations and SEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS IN PENALTIES! EZ Pass told me that I could pay the whole thing and ask for courtesy to waive the fees this time and turn in the tag, so I did, so that I could give him the car with nothing in my name anymore, and no risk of me owing 7K. It was the last bit of money I had for summer spending. He was furious that I handled it and kept insisting the tag was in his name -- talk about delusional! Just the name of a tag that is clearly in my name on the bill is a cause for anger and insisting that I am wrong!

He is also picking up D today so I was a little worried about it being the money day and if he would be crazy around her. And you recall, last time I was late with the payment because he insisted on the insanely expensive appraiser, he took me to court for contempt of court while I was out of town with the kids. (My L went for me.) He must have spent 2K on a lawyer to make me pay 1500. The judge was furious with him for wasting her time but gave me one week to pay the rest, and I did. But again, the MLC mind does not see reality. As you will see below, he actually thought that it worked well the last time he did that, and that the judge will support him! I only wrote back, "Today is Sept 1. The payment is due today," And he wrote back, "Sept 1 started at midnight." WOWOWOWOWWOW But it just all makes me feel so hopeless and low about the future of my family. I know what everyone here will say but today I just need a hug. I periodically just get so sad that he hates me so much and it all seems so unfair, even though I know it is MLC and the man I knew is not there right now. I am just reeling from the betrayal this week. So just send me some hugs please. I know al the things I am supposed to be thinking. I just want to cry on your shoulders.

Gerds (he uses my shortest cutest nickname), I never got paid the $2500. What you obviously want is another emergency court date Tuesday...in which you will yet again be seen for the truth of what you are: a recalcitrant person, flagrantly living in impunity, while in violation of no less than four court orders..if this path is one you wish to follow then this is the path I will happily follow.

While you (just as you always have) have your own esoteric, invidualized clock, calandar and map that you alone bullishly live by, the world (including the court and all of us ordinary citizens) humbly obediently shares its own ordinary clock and a calandar and map... and if you really believe the ordinary humble world (and all of its ordinary humble citizens) are going to yet again be bullied to get in joint with that bullish clock, calandar and map that you alone establish as your own..if this is yet again what you wish us and the court to believe, then that belief will be yours.

I will see you in court Tuesday.

Your willful, fractious and recalcitrant days of bullishly arrogantly flipping the proverbial "f-you" finger to the world's and the court's clocks, calandars and maps are finished. At the end of it all, I trust that we will all miraculously and pleasantly discover -- after a just and honorable war -- that what's humbly shared by the ordinary whole-wide world doesn't simply bullishly get reduced to what uniquely belongs to a defiant despot.

If Justice --and Love -- finally beget anything for the world, it is that "discovery" and no other "discovery" that Justice and Love finally beget for the world: that one person's extraordinarily bullish ways do not simply become the ways of an ordinary world and its ordinary citizens.

See you Tuesday in court.

-H
Posted By: Westo

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/01/19 03:53 PM

(((Gerda)))

(((Gerda)))

(((Gerda)))

Itís Sunday afternoon here and Iím drinking a nice cup of tea and sending you big cwtches.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/01/19 05:31 PM

(((Gerda)))

You are allowed to weep upon our shoulders.

Please feel cared for in these darkest of times as virtual arms hold you up as you regain your strength against the pull of collapse.

DnJ
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/01/19 08:40 PM

(((Gerda))

You are suffering, and it breaks my heart. I'm so sorry.

I wanted to just share my viewpoint on standing. I believe in standing. I believe God wants us to stand to wait for him to sort things out, not necessarily to stand only to see if we can be reunited with our spouse. As you know, things don't always sort out the way we think they will or should or want to.

God told me to wait for many months, until one day, very recently, I stopped hearing it. As you know, I am proceeding with divorce, because H made his choice. God isn't telling me to wait anymore because it's time for me to follow another path he is leading me on. None of us knows whether God will reunite us with our spouses, but I ask you:

Are you listening to God's instructions on following the path he has for you?

Do not despair. HE is with you, and has his arms open to comfort you. Mine are too.

(((Gerda)))

Grace
Posted By: tadpole1025

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/02/19 03:08 AM

Hey Gerda.

((HUGS)))

I'm sorry you are going through this. I'm sorry he is so mean. I know how you feel. I don't have much to add, but just wanted to send hugs your way.

I also understand wanting to stand and also not standing.

Just my opinion, but I'm sure God will be okay with whatever decision that you make. I believe that God would want Gerda to do what is best for Gerda and do what makes Gerda happy.

I also believe that there is no right or wrong answer. I stood for a long time until XW remarried and made the decision for me. Would I still be standing? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. Again, there is no right or wrong answer.

I also understand about wanting to love and be loved.

Please don't believe all of the garbage he spews. I know it is easier said than done, but he's on a crazy train right now and is nowhere near the person you knew.

(((ANOTHER HUG)))

Take care.

Tad

Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/02/19 04:58 PM

Westo, thank you for the THREE hugs, they were very comforting, as was the tea with cream and scones.

Grace -- This is a big conversation but unfortunately I do not trust anymore that I am hearing what God wants. For example -- oftentimes I feel that when God wants me to understand something, He will tell me twice. And a few years back on a day that I was really low, I was in a store with my daughter, sadly looking down as we went up an escalator holding hands. And something suddenly made me look up just as we were passing a photograph of the little stone bridge where H proposed in a big park in my city. It was a big deal, that bridge, because we went to that same place every year since our first date. So I looked up and saw that photo and felt this tentative peace. And then I went home and there was a flyer in the mail for something, and on one side was a huge photo of the same bridge! So I felt that it was God speaking to me, and I kept the flyer in my top drawer and still have it. And to be clear, this is not a bridge that one sees all the time or that is constantly in flyers. So it was unusual to see it once in a day, let alone twice.

Well, yesterday I had to bring D10 to H because I asked him for a later start time so she could see some cousins who were coming through town. So I had to bring her way out to wear he lives on the train, and I asked if he could come down to get her at the gate so I wouldn't have to pay again. But it turned out that that station didn't have a way back in, so I had to cross over and pay again and go to other side. All of this is just to point out how many things had to happen for what happened then -- the train finally pulls up, and there are ads on the side of all the cars, and the one that stopped right in front of me was -- a huge image of that bridge.

I was literally paralyzed. I just gasped. And then I got in the train and just felt like that message from God was plastered to my back, and when I got to my station, I stopped and stared at it til the train pulled away.

And the thing is, I don't know what anyone else is hearing, but I really don't think God would ever tell us to stop standing. I mean, I think He will be with us through anything and everything, and that if we divorce and remarry, he will make something out of that too. But I think the plan that keeps us closest to Him is to be as we were when we came to him, as Paul says. I am not saying that your D and mine are not necessary as civil financial transactions to protect us, clearly they are; but as far as the spiritual side of marriage, I don't think God would encourage us to end that. I believe that we are called to marry once. But in my faith, annulment is a real thing -- and I wasn't even really married in the Catholic Church, so I have been counseled many times to get an annulment and be free to marry for what would be considered the first time! But something blocks me from believing that.

But I also know that H might never come back and that God might have a totally different plan for me. So I am trying not to make any decision for myself but just to wait to see what God does. I don't know that I can base my whole life on what feel like messages. I honestly don't think we ever know exactly what God is saying, and that we can only have confidence that his plan will be working even when we choose the "wrong" path. Father Arseny always comes to mind, or other long-sufferers. God doesn't fix everything or carve out a peaceful path for all of us. Hardly. That can't be the point of faith or no wars, disease or children dying or any of the other horrible things that happen would allow us to still have faith at all. I certainly don't think that I get to trade my faith for a happy life, I am sure it's not transactional.

But your question is probably at the route of my current suffering. I feel a little bit mad at God if he is calling me to stand for "nothing." I am still thinking on some level that this is transactional, and that since I did my part, if he wants me to do more or pray in another way or, horror of horrors, if He is testing me, well, I am ready to fail because it's not fair.

Which leads us to Tad's post -- first of all, thank you so much for your extremely sweet message. It really really hit me, and shows that you have such a good heart and know just what to say. The only part I am not sure about is what I was saying above -- because when you have a strong faith, you know that God does not actually want you to be happy but holy. Not that holiness is a misery, but that it's not really based on what is happening in this world, it's based on a peace that comes when you are really connected to God, and this could come even when you are going through what we all are going through -- or even when you are in a war or being crucified upside down! That kind of happiness is not something explainable, it's just a grace. I get glimpses of this but my current crisis is because I don't want to love God that much. I am very focused on my current circumstances and how the whole trajectory of my life and my kids' lives is not what I wanted. I am in some kind of denial and fighting my reality. I feel separated from God in that way, but I don't have the faith or strength to ask Him to pull me back.

Which leads us to DnJ, and the arms lifting you when you collapse -- and my deep gratitude for that!

XO to you all.
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/03/19 01:33 PM

Gerda,

I am sorry that your h is still monstering, but I want to offer you just a wee bit of advice. From this day forward, any time you have to pay for something or provide him w/information about something, i.e., for example the EZ Pass tag, take a photo of the items. That way, if your h is acting like a mule, just pull up the photo and send it to him if the items are in your name. Then, if he's got an issue, he can stick it where the sun don't shine.

As for the date of September 1st being the day that you send him money...true, at the strike of midnight, August 31st rolls into September 1st...but that doesn't mean you have to get up at 12:01 a.m. and send him money...you have the full 24 hours to do so. Your h is attempting to bully you and scare you into doing what he wants. He knows that he can get away w/it. I might be wrong, but you can't usually schedule court dates over a weekend or a holiday weekend.

Since it appears that you are having a difficult time w/your cash flow, have you given any thought to filing for bankruptcy? I realize that this is not something you want to think about, but it might help you w/some of those bills, etc. that keep hounding you.

I know things look very bleak at the moment, but you've got to stay strong and not allow this man to scare you and beat you down.

If you ever notice, when we have terrible natural disasters, God tears everything down to the ground and then allows us to rebuild. When this happens, generally the towns and cities come back even better than before. This happens w/some marriages. I'm not sure that this will happen w/yours because of all the damage he has created. It's okay to stand for marriage, but it's not okay to stand for abuse and manipulation. Gerda, I'm going to be perfectly honest w/you, your h is not going to go away quietly. He strikes me as someone who is going to bully/manipulate you even if you file for divorce and it is granted. There are some that you can't please no matter what. Do the best you can when dealing w/him, but I would try to refrain from as much contact w/him as possible.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/06/19 12:43 AM

Hallo, Job -- Thank you, as ever, for your very thoughtful reply. You always give me something to chew on and leave me with some questions. So --

First of all, it's funny how helpful it was just to hear you say he is monstering. It's so weird how as the LBS doing this for so long, sometimes I can't even remember that he is monstering, but remembering it helps with detachment, as does your perspective on what he will do as this plays out. I keep thinking it's all about the money for him, so my question is -- do you mean that even when he gets his money he will keep trying to torment me like this?! Oh my gosh! I was thinking that a condition of our settlement would be that he can't take me to court again.

Next -- I did meet with a bankruptcy attorney at one point and he said that would end with an order to sell my house to pay off the debt. I am on a path to refi, and if it doesn't work, I will have to sell anyway, so that's already the plan.

Now about the difference between standing for marriage and standing for abuse and manipulation -- this is the line I have trouble walking. I don't talk to him at all anymore except to answer about kids and once in a while to propose that we try to settle instead of wasting more time/money on lawyers. I didn't post his answer to my last attempt, but he said that everyone knows that everything I do and think is a mirage and that he is willing to go "all the way" to get justice. I just can't believe that a person this crazy is allowed to use the courts in this way.

But anyway my point is -- I really am back into PTSD about seeing his name in my inbox and I am wondering if there is a way to set a boundary because he just won't stop, no matter how many times I say to stop sending abusive e-mails. I told him that if he did it again, I would be sending them to a friend to read for me from now on but I have not wanted to ask my best friend to do that and the only other person I can think of who would do it for me is that same male friend I mentioned before and our relationship is pretty complicated anyway. I don't actually read them in full most of the time but even just seeing them there makes me feel so nervous and anxious and sad about how my life ended up. When I am working or otherwise occupied, I don't think about H's treatment of me in e-mail or anything else, but when I am not, my mind starts whirring and I wake up always in a state of anxiety these days. I think also because things are so hard with my kids, it's hard for me to imagine that my kids and I could ever feel truly peaceful and happy and not so lonely and like a family again, I mean for more than an hour here and there, and I mean even if H never wakes up.

I am really rambling but my question is if you think it would be okay if I started having a friend answer anything he sends me so that he sees that I am really not going to accept the e-mails anymore. I am pretty sure that he would stop if I did that, because a couple years ago when I enlisted my brother it really knocked H for a loop. I don't want to enlist my brother again because he is a whole other can of worms. For a while I thought I should just collect them in case we go to trial, but I think it's time for me to worry about my mental health over any trial benefit, and lord knows I have enough crazy and abusive e-mails from him to fill a whole box of evidence.
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/06/19 11:08 AM

Gerda - I'm sorry you are continually being attacked by your H. I know that feeling when you see an e-mail in the inbox. While my H doesn't have ramblings of a crazy person, he is starting to show more anger and panic.

Have you considered just hitting the delete button and trash permanently any e-mails that come in like that? Why read them? I'm not sure enlisting an outsider is the answer. To what end? Those ramblings really don't require a response, do they?

Anyway, my two cents worth. I've been out of the loop here for about a week as my stich is cranking up. I check in from time to time though, and you are in my prayers.

Grace
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/06/19 11:57 AM

Good Morning Gerda

Iím sorry youíre have so much fear and stress around Hís email. He does lash out among his overly worded writings.

Block him. Set up an inbox rule to automatically trash his email, or send it to a different folder. I prefer trashing them. Anything important is going to go through, and has to go through, the lawyers. All he is sending is threats and stress - you donít need that.

For the bit of communication regarding the children. Yes, until a formal agreement is in place some communicating will be required. Tell him to use the phone or messages (they canít be long rambling emails smile ).

I know of many ex couples who have to exchange kids less than amicably. No talking is required, they have a set schedule. Some meet at the police station to exchange, others use a third party service. No kidding. I had never hear about such a thing, an actual business where you drop off you kids, leave, then your X comings and picks them up. And then the other way around for next time. And so on. Very little communicating. There are some really angry people out there and boundaries are required.

As for standing:

I wrestled with the standing for my vows and commitment I promised. Keeping my word is really important to me. So at this point along my path Iím standing for me. Not standing for W, or XW, nor for my marriage, itís memory, or the dead marriage it is now. Iím not totally sure, but I think I'm not standing for God or my vow - although it amounts to the same.

I am standing for my beliefs - following them. They are honourable and live in the light. I am standing for me.

I let go of the concept of standing - the willing and meditated action to stand. I just live and have peace. I am not looking for anyone, nor not looking. I am willing to explore a new relationship and not needing too. Perhaps the meditated action of standing has alter my beliefs and it is now just something I do. As I said, Iím standing for me.

It took the actual divorce to get here. Iím unsure if I would have arrived without divorcing. The big D, isnít so big, and it is. And not in the ways you expect. Divorce really isnít worth all the fear and stress leading up to it. It can strengthen the LBS, free them. I still donít like divorce, or the ease of which it can be obtained, but that is another post.

Hoping you have a great day.

DnJ
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/06/19 12:49 PM

Gerda,

Your h sees you as the enemy, the enemy that has made him very unhappy. He sees you as controlling and being an authority figure and someone who keeps saying that there is no money or this needs to be repaired or that needs to be repaired. He wants to break free of all of that. He is going to continue to monster until everything has been destroyed of that "marriage" even if that means destroying your reputation in the process. He wants out the relationship and he wants his share of whatever the equity is and whatever assets you both have. He doesn't want to hear that there is no money. In his irrational mental state, he thinks that there is lots of money and that you are hiding it somewhere over that rainbow in a pot of gold. It doesn't matter to him what is in black and white.

I would venture to say that he will continue to act out even if the divorce is finalized because you have two children together. Your daughter, to him, is a possession, as he tends to favor her over her brother. He may continue to take you to court over the custody or because of his visitation dates that are assigned, but whatever the reason, I do think he's not going to go quietly. I am not telling you my opinion to get you upset, but I am trying to give you something to think about because this man isn't going to go quietly.

I agree with Grace and DNJ, block his emails or just send them to the trash bin. Do not involve others in this email mess. Next thing you know, he'll bring up some bogus charges against that person for responding for you. It's a good way to lose a good friend by involving them. Please do not do this.

I agree w/DNJ about divorce. I don't agree w/how easy it is to get one, but in a case such as yours, a divorce would certainly ease the pressure/stress that you are under and it will free you up to allow you to focus on you, your children and your career. Trust me, God would not have an issue w/a divorce in your situation. He doesn't want any of us to live in situations such as what you are going through.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/08/19 06:19 PM

Hello Gerda

How are son and daughter liking this school year so far? Did they have school pictures yet?

I came home from work last week and found D17 wearing a rather skimpy outfit. Not really that bad - just the Dad thing to say. It did show her belly, the midriff as it is called. Ripped jeans, which are the style - who knew the hobo the back lane is a fashion icon. smile Anyhow, she informed me that it was picture day at school. She certainly was dressed up. My goodness she has grown.

How was the summer job for son? Did he like it? Did he learn some stuff?

It is clear skies and sunny here, and I hope your Sunday is going well and has good weather.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/14/19 10:05 PM

Thank you for these replies, Grace and Job and DnJ. I do devour the replies when they are posted and read them several times over the next days, and then I get sucked into the maelstrom and don't post for a while.

About why I don't block -- at first it was to gather a file of them to use at trial. Obviously I have enough now, but then, because we have young children, I need to arrange visitation with him, and I like to keep a record of everything, esp since mostly he cancels or ignores anything about them -- even if it's something like S14 needing glasses.

I keep asking him to only correspond about visitation but all that has happened is that he still writes but copies his lawyer on everything. His e-mails are so out there, I guess his L realizes he is crazy but just loves to collect the billable hours. His L is very religious but I guess he does not see any conflict in encouraging this horror to go on in order to make as much as possible off of it.

It is an endless onslaught and all so very clear that this is a mind unraveling because I am not even sure what he is fighting for, as far as the D. He thinks I am hiding money but he has all the documents. He thinks the property is worth way more than it is worth, but the appraisal is coming soon. He even went into a fury that I put his stuff in storage, even though I packed it all myself, lugged it down to car and lugged it to storage place, paid the first two months. He wrote this long crazy e-mail about my need to control everything and how he wants the court to punish me for it.

And he called me "my ex-W" for the first time. That really cut my heart, I am not gonna lie.

When I do not have to deal with him, or when I am not hit with a wave of grief, my life is okay. S14 is doing a lot better -- still a mess but much less of a mess. So far has gone to school everyday on time except one day because he had a procedure done on his foot and couldn't walk that well. He is not really complaining about school that much, at least not like he used to, and he hangs out with his sister a little bit lately. There was a shoplifting moment but just a candy bar. He still talks about all those dark topics but he has been skateboarding all day with friends again and has not been playing video games on the PS 4 though he is still totally addicted to his phone and now needs glasses because of it. So he is not out of the woods but definitely it's not as intensely bad.

D10 cries a lot, is extremely needy (to the point that i lose patience and then feel terrible) and is unable to focus on academics (and also has some real learning disabilities) but also enjoys her best friends, etc.

I would say that both kids are suffering quite a lot but that they are walking through life with some fun and friends.

The finanical situation is really hard on all of us but I have not lost the house yet and have managed to feed everyone, even if everyone is mad at me for not being able to buy anything ever.

I spend a lot of time talking to God about everything. I am looking for His love in a new way. All this time I was looking for it by being good. Now I do not want to be good. I met with a priest recently, not my spiritual father but another one that just started at my parish and who is very young. The conversation was about adultery and annulment and all of that. It was a pretty upsetting conversation and made me think a lot about what my faith means. I realize that if I see this nightmare in any way as a test that I am not passing, I would not lose my faith but I would not follow God anymore. I know that God is love, that is what brought me to Christ. So I am trying to live what that means and sometimes I am very lost because I can't understand it. I thought a lot about the way I am with my son, and how much I love him even when he refuses to follow my "rules" or just in general to make bad choices. I get sad about what his life would be but I don't stop loving him. So that is where I am now. I may not be being clear but I don't want to give all the details! But this relates to what Job says -- I don't think God in any way would "have a problem" with my divorcing because I don't want one, even now. I am just being forced into it. And of course I total separation financially and also physically for now. But the issue is what will happen to me after this. The issue is standing, and what I do while I am standing.

In that way, DnJ, maybe you and are in the same place. Except that I think if someone wonderful came into your life, you would love her with your beautiful loving soul/heart and that would make your choice for you. For me I don't want a blended family or any of that. But I have considered some far less serious possibilities and don't know anymore what I will do. DnJ, I am writing the least in response to your posts, but you know your posts are to me the pinnacle. I was especially touched this time that you posted, and then you came back to check on me, like always. (And bare midriff, that is my terror for when D10 does that!) Yes, I was looking and yes, it helped me feel less alone when I saw that you posted, and came back to check on me with your cheerful how-do-you-do second post because you knew I was low. Oh and yes, the job for S14 was AMAZING. Transformed him, it was so amazing, and finally some wonderful men came along who cared and helped me with my son, so we were both so happy about it. But it was at the island just for two weeks, I need to find something comparable back here in the city.

OK, that is my update. When is our reunion? : )
Posted By: Grace21

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/15/19 03:49 PM

Gerda -

I haven't checked in with you in about a week. Really haven't been here much at all. But, I'm glad to read your update and that your son is doing better.

Originally Posted by Gerda
But this relates to what Job says -- I don't think God in any way would "have a problem" with my divorcing because I don't want one, even now. I am just being forced into it. And of course I total separation financially and also physically for now. But the issue is what will happen to me after this. The issue is standing, and what I do while I am standing.

In that way, DnJ, maybe you and are in the same place. Except that I think if someone wonderful came into your life, you would love her with your beautiful loving soul/heart and that would make your choice for you. For me I don't want a blended family or any of that. But I have considered some far less serious possibilities and don't know anymore what I will do



I also do not want a divorce. Even now. But, I also have decided that I will not tolerate such disrespect that H has shown me in buying a property with his girlfriend and taking such a sum of money without having the ba*** to tell me first. I want a completely fulfilling life. I am almost there, but staying married under these circumstances is not allowing me to achieve it fully. I will be filing for D this week or next. I am at peace with my decision. I have also decided to not worry about "standing". It will evolve as God directs me, and I am at peace with that. I hope you will find that peace too.


Grace
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/16/19 02:52 AM

Hello Gerda

A very nice update.

A favourite part of mine:

Originally Posted by Gerda
When I do not have to deal with him, or when I am not hit with a wave of grief, my life is okay.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...my life is okay.

I am happy to hear that S14 is doing well. The two weeks of working on the island does seem to have had an effect. I agree with you, it would be great to find something back at home in the city.

My kids worked in the local grocery store. The store closed at 6:00pm so no late evenings. They could work after school or Saturday and still have time for school work and fun. Hopefully something similar is available for students where you live.

Glad to see son is going to school, playing with friends, and even spending time with sister. These are the little steps that accumulate into something big. Keep guiding him, gently.

Iím sorry about D10. Yes this is hard on the kids. I think daughter will emerge from all this a caring and kind young woman - she does have a good role model in you. Stay strong.

I totally get your questions of what do I do while standing? From a dear friend - you have to get through what is in front of you first. H is bent on his path, and you and the kids are in the way. When this is behind you, things will be clearer. Then figure out standing.

I found that temptations are very real and large. Strong emotions stir up to fill the void from an exiting spouse. Feelings do flit. Doesnít make them any less real, and in my experience I am still tempted - it is just down to size.

Gerda, you are strong. Stay the course and get through this. Let the feelings subside and find your beliefs, the ones you want. Follow them.

I like what Grace said about not worrying about standing. It will evolve the way it is meant to.

I also like what you said about someone wonderful coming into my life. My squishy heart beats strong. And I do wonder if I will give it to someone again.

Two weeks. Bravery written on your calendar for that day. Stay strong. You got this.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/21/19 12:40 AM

Grace, I think your approach make sense, and I do want peace.

But I think it's a little different because I am on year 7. Letting it evolve for that long is wearying. The not knowing, and now, to start over with a whole new level of monstering. My relationships with male friends have become more confusing because I have been unattached for so long. Your BD was in 2018 and my BD1 was in 2013. It has been a long time of patiently waiting and battling my will. And I have tried so hard to develop another life of fun and connections for me and my kids and it just never really happens. So the loneliness is sometimes staggering.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/21/19 12:52 AM

DnJ, I am battling your old friend FEAR. I got this e-mail from H today. It's not the e-mail that concerns me. It's that I am terrified that the court will say he is allowed to come back. I can't tell if he is threatening me just to intimidate me or to keep control of this situation, to assert his manhood or what, but it is now coming to what I kept warning my L would happen, that he is going to try to come back.

The part about the storage is so bizarre. I have told him about his stuff being in storage for two months and now he has the car, so he is the only one who could deal with it anyway. He never paid the bill and finally I told him that by the third month they will auction his stuff if he doesn't pay for it. Rather than just go to the storage and take his stuff, he keeps demanding inventories and writing this vicious notes about me controlling everything.

Anyway, here is the letter. I am ready for a DnJ pep talk addressing my fear that the court will say he is allowed to come back.

Gerda, (First Name of his L) -

Cooler weather has arrived, and the semester has arrived, and therefore I am going to need access to my books, and my non-summer clothes.. among other things. And because I assume that some of these items are in storage, and some are not, I will require access to my own to home to be able perform a satisfactory inventory. But moreover do recognize that I hardly could retrieve my possessions (and also recognize that the items in storage "will be trashed Oct 1," says Gerda) without being certain that I will have a place, a home, to put them in beginning Oct. 1: for as of now -- as I have not heard a response about a new interim agreement -- it's looking like I will be returning to marital home on Oct. 1 until the date that an equitable distribution settlement has been struck. Please advise about all
- H
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/21/19 02:15 AM

P.S. I just spoke to my L. he said he can't guarantee that the judge wouldn't allow H to move back! But he said that if they try to do so, we would file an order to show cause. This would be very expensive. I just can't believe that any judge would not see how terrible this was for our kids, let alone me, and would just tell him he had to get a job and a less expensive apartment for the interim, not move back!
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/22/19 04:32 PM

Good Morning Gerda

My old friend FEAR. Funny you should say that, or maybe not, perhaps it is expected.

Yes, fear is looked at as kind of a friend. A part of oneself. Dealing with it from that perspective is more productive that battling an unwilling and unyielding enemy. One doesnít banish or vanquish their fears; one stops feeding them. They still exist, just not all consuming, nor all powerful. Concerns without the emotionally paralytic irrational response to that possible future.

With that in mind, letís look at the intellectual and rational problem you face.

You state it is not the email that concerns you. Excellent! However, you are tying Hís email(s) to possible court decisions. Exactly what he is attempting to get you to do! His email highlights and threatens all the outcomes you fear - he is playing upon them.

I totally understand and empathize your fear about what the courts may decide and allow him to do. Please stop saying ďterrified that he may come backĒ. Your mind is listening. Write and say ďbraveryĒ. Do not let this doofus of a husband/man belittle, bully, and push you around. And by the way, you allow that - and Iíve been there. People will treat us as we let them. Or more internalized and personal idea - people treat you as you see them treating you.

For example, in my role at work I do get criticized by others. I donít (not try - donít) take it personally. I see it as their viewpoint. And sometimes they are correct, and I need to make adjustments. Other times, they are just venting, or have their own problems, and it is complete projection - a response from them being held accountable and not wanting to be. Point being, how I approach it has a big affect on how I see it.

So, yeah, H is threatening, or asserting to assuage his fragile ego, or whatever. Let that go. Leave it. H has his problems and is going to project and lash out - detach from it. Whatever he does - will not affect you!

Hmmm. Thatís pretty good. Just writing and talking to you, that just came out. smile Maybe write that down on one of those pieces of paper you carry around.

Whatever H does - doesnít affect me! I control me!

So letís get to the heart of this matter. The courts may allow him to come home.

Ok. Can you prevent it? Can you control what the courts are going to decide? It is guaranteed to happen?

This is out of your control. The courts will do what they will. You and your layer are doing the best you can, trust it to work out - even it is a more eventually it will work out kind of belief. Look, no one wins all the battles, but I am sure you are going to win the war. By the way, Iím not pushing the fighting analogy - the emotional side of it - just the business side of it. Itís pretty apt.

Is this feared outcome guaranteed? No. And this is interesting. If it is guaranteed, not much point in fearing it, as it will happen. (Weird, I know, I remember how things used to look). If it is not guaranteed, well that is why we uncouple our irrational attached feelings from that possible future event. No point being all fearful and paralyzed over something that may or may not happen - or over something that will for sure. Intellectually fear doesnít make a lot of sense.

You can be concerned and have contingencies in event of something - power failures are a pretty good example. (Wonder why I would think of that. Oh yeah, really big storm yesterday, oh my goodness so many things to fix... but I digress, this about you and your situation).

So, if he is allowed to come home. Now, rationalize this. That will uncouple things. Will take away the terror.

The fear lay in certain possibilities you are obsessing over. However there are many more paths this could take, donít overlook, or maybe more proactive advice, consider the other paths this could take.

H may not even want to come home. H might not even take this to court. H could change lawyer again. Etc.

If he does come home, you already got this dread all laid out for yourself. Choose better. Change it up. Kill him with kindness. The best revenge is you living a great life. Iím going to be open about this - I donít like that saying. The revenge part. Iím not after vengeance - for me it was more give XW to God. Fate will (or wonít) have its revenge on her, I need not worry about that. But, from the MLCers point of view - your great life must look like a slap their face and there is nothing they can do about it. Thatís the revenge part - Hey spouse you left all this good stuff.

So, if he comes home - roommate the h3ll of this. You and your kids lead and live a great lives (by the way do that no matter what H does) and leaving him to his. Treat him like almost a stranger. Make meals for you and the kids. Leave him. No laundry. Nothing. He will leave on his own accord. Who cares. You cannot control H, but you can let him make his own decisions - with maybe a little influence (perhaps).

This is all a possible future. I am going to guess you may even find the thought (see not feeling) of ďkilling him with kindnessĒ rather a bit humorous and it would be kind of fun to implement (and fun being a rather bizarre ďfunĒ that only we here would truly understand). The big idea here - You are not in fear. Thinking, seeing it, finding a different approach, altering the conditions - all intellectual car stuff and not emotionally driven. Nothing for fear to hang on to. Let it wither.

Some more ďfunĒ intellectual stuff - Gerda standing up and living large. Donít respond to his email. Who cares! He can contact your lawyer. Let his crap be auctioned off. By the way, it is him who is letting his stuff be auctioned off. You have it in writing that he knows - the items in storage ďwill be trashed Oct.1Ē. You have ample documentation of informing him of all manners of things. Let him have his consequences. Keep your lawyer in the loop, and you out of it.

There is no way you are going to be able to reason with H. Donít try. Donít even bother with his emails anymore, just straight to the lawyer. He is ramping up his fight and will try to mow down anyone or anything in his way. So get out of the way. This why you pay your lawyer.

Originally Posted by Gerda
Please advise about all

You need not advise him about anything.

He wants to be separate. Let him.

Gerda, see what the future brings, and deal with what happens. Yes, keep doing what you can to protect you and the kids, and detach from the emotions and fears that stir up.

I know the dark pit you are in. The fears and anxiety that dwell there. Look beside you, I am there, finger interlocked, a ready handhold, encouraging you to place your foot into it, to rise up and out.

DnJ
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/23/19 01:15 PM

DnJ, have so far read this five times and also sent it to my best friend who is facing something extremely hard (not marriage-related) today. She also loved it.

I gotta print this one out at Staples (no more ink budget for now) to add the papers I carry around.... (So funny that you remember that. Also points to the fact that my foibles can still seem endearing to some!)

OK, I accept your offer -- I am putting out my foot, glass slippered, please prepare yourself for the burden which is a couple pounds heavier than usual from all those nainnoooommaaaaiiii bars. I have a wicked cough so hopefully the broth diet will help. : )

I am still scared and have a lot of butwhatabouts ping ponging between my head and heart but I am going to just keep reading what you wrote and try to get there.

You are such a good friend, thank you.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/24/19 03:08 AM

Hello Gerda

Your enthusiastic post made my day.

I am glad it resonated with you.

Iíve got one small suggestion for you.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am still scared and have a lot of butwhatabouts ping ponging between my head and heart but I am going to just keep reading what you wrote and try to get there.

You accepted my offer and I am making sure you have a good foothold.

By the way. S21 had cherry Nanaimo bars for his birthday. With ice cream. I also added chocolate sauce and syrup. Wow! So good.

DnJ
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/26/19 01:06 PM

Gerda,

DnJ is absolutely correct...if he returns home, treat him as you would a roommate. The roommate takes care of himself/herself in all aspects of life. You only speak to him when necessary and if he speaks to you. reply in a calm voice and do not go to great lengths in discussions. Keep them short and to the point.

About the storage locker, you have advised him of where his stuff is and what he needs to do. It is not on you now to play mother and/or wife to him...he fired you in the wife department. Be sure to send your email about the storage facility and his response to your lawyer. No more emails and/or responses back to him except to say, you may address your concerns with my lawyer. You don't want to give him any more ammunition against you using the written word.

Take a huge breath and hold your head up high. Do not let him see that he is getting to you. I don't know how they do it, but they can sense our fear and will use it against us. Don't let him see you sweat.

Keep the focus on you and your children.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/26/19 01:08 PM

I was very nervous going to court yesterday, so I literally forced myself to remember what you said about fear, DnJ. It helped a little. At one point in court I was texting a friend who was making jokes and I said I would like to laugh but may have to vomit, and he said that he would worship me if I was able to vomit on H's lawyer. This made me laugh but also helped me get detached, realizing that something that seems horrible, e.g., vomiting in court, would in this case actually be pretty awesome.

I can't even begin to explain what happened yesterday, it was the worst appearance yet. The screaming and the lying. H is threatening to come back Oct 1, and his L is going with it. At one point was screaming at me, "What floor do you want to take? Pick one! Which floor are you going to live on because he is taking the other one."

But his L told my L at one point that because of my letter to the friend's wife, they are not paying H's legal bills anymore!!! What a victory! And twice my H blew up and had to leave the court room (we were not on record, just battling on the side or with the court attorney) because he was so angry. I was just calm and looking at my book or my lawyer though a couple times I admit I had to plug my ears listening to the lawyers scream at each other. And at one point when H left the courtroom, his L leaned over to my L and said, "Please settle this case! I can't stand this guy anymore!"

The conference was adjourned to Oct 23 so as a result my H filed an emergency motion for me to pay his rent this month. I started by an offer of $0 per month, raised it to $1000 and finally to $1250. No go, he wants his whole rent paid and makes demands like me moving out and him running the rentals. Then the court attorney asked if I could pay his rent for Oct so he'd have 30 days to find a more reasonable apartment. I said I could try but H said no to that too, that I have to pay his rent til we settle, and it has to be that expensive apartment. Everyone keeps saying to him, Why don't you get a job? He proudly assets he has one and it only pays $18000 a year. Everyone keeps suggesting he work more than two days a week. Then more screaming. I keep pointing out that even if we put the house on the market right now, it will be 6 months to a year before he sees any money. More screaming and lying about me hiding money. I keep asking my lawyer to ask them for documents showing this mystery money and he keeps saying that that doesn't happen til trial.

It is so weird that this is legal, and that taxpayer dollars are going to enable the court to stand by while this goes on!

At the end they had closed the court for lunch and we were still trying to get H to agree to something reasonable out in the hall. And at one point, me and my L and his assistant were listening to H and his L literally screaming at each other around the corner of the hall until H stormed out of the courthouse. This is a huge beautiful 19th century building with many levels and galleries overlooking the spaces below that is always in movies and TV shows. So picture that while you are picturing this!
Posted By: sjohns6

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/26/19 02:57 PM

Oh my, Gerda! What a scene he caused! He really is showing his true colors. I have to admit, I almost laughed out loud reading that his lawyer asked your lawyer to settle cause he can't stand H. And I love hearing that his lawyer isn't being funded anymore. His unwillingness to get a job while insisting that you are hiding an imaginary pool of money really speaks to his mental state to a degree that anyone can see it without having to know anything about MLC.

I am so sorry that you have having to go through this madness, but despite how you may feel during it, i sounds like you are doing perfectly. Patients is definitely a virtue, and you have it in spades.

You are always in my thoughts and I am glad that DnJ and Job (and many others of course) are able to offer you practical advice. I'm afraid I'm more like a cheerleader while DnJ and Job are helping call the plays, lol. I'm happy to be your cheerleader!!

(((Gerda)))
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/26/19 06:06 PM

I am surprised that the court hasn't insisted that he get a full time job within a period of time. There certainly doesn't sound like there is anything wrong with except he is a self-centered man who thinks he is entitled to having someone else bring home the bacon, i.e., like his parents would do when he was at home.

As for his lawyer, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he advises your h that he isn't going to represent him any longer. Lawyers do get very tired of clients not listening to what they are advising and eventually they will drop them. That is what happened to my xh. At the time of the first scheduling appointment, he shows up with a new lawyer from a different law firm. My lawyer asked my xh what happened to the other lawyer and he lied and she had left her law firm. Didn't make sense when there were three other lawyers at the firm that could have taken over the case. Bottom line, lawyers will take them on as clients for a while, but when the MLCer doesn't listen and makes them look like fools, that is when they will drop them as clients.

Very telling the way your h was carrying on. That little meet up out in the other area would make good TV series material.

Here's hope that you can find some peace very soon.
Posted By: kml

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/26/19 07:28 PM

This isn't just MLC. I really do think there is something wrong with your H's mental health and because of that. I would be very careful about your personal safety and that of your children. He's getting backed into a corner and that could make him very unpredictable.
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/26/19 07:50 PM

I agree w/kml's posting. Please be careful around this man. MLC or not, when desperate people get back into a corner, they come out swinging.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/27/19 01:36 AM

SJohn (SAM), always so happy to see you stop in. Don't apologize for not giving advice. I always look to see if you posted; I just want you to say hi or give me a hug!

KML and Job, thank you so much for stopping by and weighing in.

I had to go back to court today, for H's emergency measure. It was so awful and in the end the judge denied H's whole emergency motion but told me H couldn't come home but I had to give him $2500 to pay his rent for this month. She wouldn't even look at my bank account to see that there is nothing in it. And if I don't pay H, he will show up on the 1st and try to get in. My L said to call the cops and have him arrested but honestly I would rather put the money on a CC than risk my kids having to witness that.

But I realized that I am facing a triumvirate of evil, and for this reason I am really sad tonight about what the next year might hold.

The triumvirate -- H, for obvious reasons. As you say, backed into a corner, loathes me with a passion, totally delusional. For example, uses the very same bank statements I use to show we make less than our bills to say that we make triple what we make on rentals. There will be a list of deposits on the statement, and he will use that as the total we are making on our rentals without seeing which are transfers from our savings or from my personal account (wages). His lawyer will just scream about it, my lawyer will counter with the truth and then the court attorney will tell them both to shut up. When I ask my L why they are allowed to lie, he says that it is this way until trial and we have to go to trial to be able to prove anything.

Part two of triumvirate -- H's L. This man is an ambulance chaser and pure evil. Even his voice would make your skin crawl, and he fights like a middle school bully. We met a couple of lawyer friends of my L today and he was telling them about H's L, I have a rude nickname for him, and they were laughing, they said, "Oh I went against a guy like that, we called him the Motion Man because he is endlessly filing motions to milk his hours, and never wants to settle." Then it turned out that it was the same man! He is apparently known for representing dead beat dads.

Part three of triumvirate of evil -- the judge. Before we were assigned a judge, I heard that I would be fine with my case being so clear unless we got this particular judge. And I got her. She has never been married, has no kids and is known to be very lazy, won't read any documents or listen to anything unless you have a specialist -- e.g., nothing about the kids unless you have an attorney for the kids, won't listen about money unless you hired a forensics analyst to analyze your finances. Today was a totally frivolous motion and more screaming and nonsense all from H's L, she even told him she would deny the motion and he insisted on being heard. And yet once we were on record, she yelled at all of us for wasting the court's time and told us she would order a trial date at the end of this month. She looked right at me and said, "I told you at the beginning of this not to become those people who do this, who waste all their money and time instead of settling. Well, guess what, you became those people." She has never even heard any of the details of what happened, she does not care why I fought for custody and she doesn't care about anything that H has done or about his lack of support or adultery or not working or anything. She just wants us to divide the asset and sign the papers.

I realized that I am pretty screwed because of the triumvirate. My goal has been to take 6 months to raise my credit score and then I will be able to refi. And I have told them I won't sell the house before the summer anyway as I will not move my kids during the school year. I have written here many times about my kids having special needs -- my son is in particular really struggling and has severe anxiety and school refusal issues and moving midyear would destroy him. And then I wanted to take child support as a lump sum off the top of the asset because of H's history of non payment and so I would never have to deal with him again on a financial level. But apparently the judge is extremely unlikely to order that and now H is refusing to consider that in a settlement. So there is not really any point in going to trial as far as I can tell; the judge will only order the houses to be sold and pay off the debt and then split it. She does not care about the story or anything else and my state is no fault, and this is the least caring judge in a no fault state. So I thought, okay, I will settle based on what is the most likely outcome of a trial. But my H's L WANTS to go to trial, even if he knows there is no point, because he knows he can charge a lot for the hours. So I don't know if they will settle no matter what I offer. I am getting deposed this month and will have to take off work AGAIN to be brutalized by these horrible people.

Friends, I am SO TIRED.

So tonight I am feeling so hopeless about seeing an end to this any time soon.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/27/19 01:48 AM

Hello Gerda

Great job! Yes, we have to force ourselves to ďthinkĒ rationally about the fears. I am so happy for you that it worked.

I agree with the others - H is showing his true colours. And his lawyer pleading to just please settle this - yeah they see whatís up. My XWís lawyer wasnít too eager to represent her again for the actual divorce. He just wanted her out of his office.

H is one angry sounding guy. Yikes! His behaviours, not willing to get a job, yelling, and so on, are getting himself painted into a corner. He has taken lots of rope and is wrapping around his negotiating neck. You are doing really fine. Keep staying calm and leaving your emotions out of this. Remember - ďBraveryĒ and ďJust BusinessĒ. I know the legalities of this look weird, and seen to be a waste taxpayer money, however trust there are reasons for the extraordinarily long due process H is getting.

What are you writing on the calendar for October 23rd?

I will also add that H is desperate; and desperate people do desperate things. Stay sharp and on top of your assets and finances. And not to be a fear monger; do watch yourís and the kids safety.

I am more than a bit curious as to what is going to happen on October 1 with Hís stuff in storage. Only a few days away. Ah, whatever, time will tell what he does.

So...

With slippered foot firmly planted in interlocked fingers - What are your (fearless) plans for the next few weeks?

DnJ
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/27/19 02:02 AM

Gerda

I posted while you where posting.

I am sorry for how tired, defeated, and hopeless you feel. Truly hugs (((Gerda)))

They are feelings. True and real, strong and sure, and temporary. You will feel rejuvenated, invigorated, and full of hope - again. Have faith, feelings do flit.

Please focus not on the evil you face. Acknowledge it, then focus on what you can affect.

DnJ
Posted By: job

Re: Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels - 09/27/19 01:04 PM

New Thread:

Gerda Rises Up to Go On
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