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Gordie 23 one year after she dropped the DI have intentionally been checking in less to the boards
Day to day and week to week things are slowly getting better
I am thankful for that
However there is still a lot of miscommunication
And places where we do not see eye to eye
We are significantly different people now
And share a lot less in common
I am still working to improve my side of the street
And heck yes there is still a lot to improve
We are not yet working on us
I hope one day we get there
I am still committed despite all that has happened
I still love her
Glad to hear you are still fighting the fight. You are standing for your marriage and it is tough for sure. Keep on keeping on.
Gordie, why do you still love her?
Reading your post, if you were at the start of your relationship back twenty years ago, the list would not lead one to the conclusion that you love her.
Now post-MLC, I understand in some ways why you still do.
But I wonder if you would be able to say why. I wonder if the why is what I have in my mind or something else.
I do not love my H anymore, not the one in front of me. I feel like he is a battering ram coated in acid, and I must keep my gate lowered to block his force against the castle of my being.
I can barely remember the H I knew before. I have not seen him in over six years. I think I love him but I can't remember him.
Mostly I tell God I trust Him, that if His plan is to restore His prodigal son, He will put His own love in my heat so I don't need to worry about keeping hold of it now while the battering ram is beating at the gate.
But often I am in a free fall towards who I was before -- I was always alone, I was so powerful in my solitude. And my relationships with men were nothing real. I was not a Christian then. Seeing my longing to be that person again, all I can do is try to aim my free fall toward God.
I loved your post to me in the last thread. The thought of you somewhere far away, standing in a store and hearing that song (was it Flora Cash?) and smiling to think of me -- well, that is just about the only thing I need to feel happy today.
I am praying for you and W. I am praying that God's plan is more beautiful than anything you can imagine in this moment.
Here is another song for you. Lately I have been listening to a lot of rap. In many ways that is part of my free fall. But not this song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPuj6UISMhsIt's called, "Blinded by Your Grace," and it's by Stormzy.
Gerda
In short I still love w because I choose to do so
I still choose her
I believe in the vows and for better for worse
And in our humanity and inhumanity
We hurt each other
The old m is dead
A lot of stuff has happened
Idealism has given way to realism
We are different people
Can we make it through this reconnection phase
One day at a time I believe that we can
But it will take more time
I am happier than I have been in a long time
I can now look back with some distance at the damage done
Its still there in the rear view mirror
But its really hard to move forward while looking back
This is not sweeping things under the rug
It is an acknowledgment of where we are today
I have dealt with the past within myself
And I hope some day we can also address it together
But I am at peace that today is not that day
Good Morning Gordie
I understand your less frequent visits to the forum, and your intentional choice to do so.
It is nice to hear from you, my wise friend.
DnJ
I recenty read about a couple married for over 50 years (could have been more...) and when asked their secret to have such a mong marriage, he replied "not to fall out of love at the same time". A simple statement, but once one is IN the M, there is a M. I believe our situations are a bit like that. Our Ws detached from the M but are still there. You have survived an affair and an immenent D. That has to have left collatoral damage, that will need to be cleared before anything better can thrive. Although it may seem so imperfect at the moment, you are closer to your goal than you were last year!
Believing in the potential of a better R is essential IMO. I am not someone who believes people should stand just to stand and any M is better than none. I believe in the potential of any situation CAN improve. As long as you believe that for your M, anything is possible. Just don'y expect IT
Best wishes
Hi Gordie!! This was the first time I've been on this site in probably 18 months, and was happy to see your name as still active. I may or may not make a post in the next day or two.
I hope all is going well with you and your life!
Happy Fathers Day Gordie.
Hope you enjoy the day with your gang of kids.
DnJ
Gordie, thinking of you today, and your strong and loving fatherly presence to your kids and even to us, when we need it. Happy Father's Day, my friend! I hope your kids showed you some serious love today. (And maybe even W did?)
happy Father's Day Gordie xoxo
Roist Kevin dnj gerda butterfly
Thanks for the well wishes
Fathers Day was fun
I think when things move slowly its hard to see progress
But sometimes events like today remind me that things continue to move in the right direction
For the last couple of years Fathers Day has been about me and the kids
That is all fine and well but w was absent or awkwardly present
This year we could all tell she wanted to be there
Not a grudging be there because of obligation
She made some of my favorite foods and bought me a gift
It was a nice day, no stress, no eggshells
And is everything perfect?
No but I am grateful for my highly imperfect life as it is today
Life is messy and imperfect
And I accept that
Perfection is a myth anyway. You are a good guy making the best of the situation. I'm glad you had a good Father's Day!
Acceptance. Confidence. Hope.
Great to read your post Gordie.
Thank you.
Glad you had a happy Fathers Day.
Hallo, Gordie. Thinking of you and wondering how it's all going.
SBJ Neffer Gerda
Thanks for checking in on me.
As SBJ says I am making the best of my situation.
I accept that she is still baking and that she is still figuring out who she is and what makes her happy. I accept that much of that work is hers to do and I give her time and space. At this stage of her life she is primarily focused on herself. I accept that and keep my expectations low because when they go up I get disappointed.
Something really great happened in my life, a real life accomplishment. I wished she could have been happy for me and celebrated it, but she is just not in a place to do that. It is what it is. So I am celebrating myself and my friends and children are all really happy for me.
W and I are going on a vacation together just the two of us later this summer. We have done some weekends together but this will be a longer trip. I find these alone times together are helping in our reconnection. The truth is we still have our issues to work through. And there is no substitute for time.
Mentally, I have moved from a place where I was anxious at the thought of this all falling apart at any minute to a place where I believe we will make it but with the sober thought that nothing is guaranteed in life. So I am going to continue living my best life. W is always welcome on my magic journey ride but I accept that she often wants to be by herself.
Peace be to all of you.
Best wishes Gordie.
I am sorry she wasn't thrilled for you like you would have liked. It is dissappointing, but that is a reflection of her and not of you. don't let it bring you down. Kudos on achieving a life accomplishment. sounds awesome.
Just thinking aload for a minute: I often think about what people here achieve DESPITE of their situation. That is impressive and shows character. Digging deeper, I wonder can a certain portion of those achievements be attributed to the crisis?! I imagine YES. Coming through a M crisis, strengthens and builds a person. No doubt about that. It could also cripple someone but thats another debate. Personaly I have a different Outlook on life now than before and honestly believe a much better life is unfolding in front of me. Whereas many parts of my life still sukc at the moment, i have an unwavering belief in that things will be better. Like you I cannot assume W will be part of that but am open to that.
Back to what I wanted to say to you. Time and space are the two key ingrdients to this process. I am glad you seem to fully accept that.
R
Thank you for always understanding and providing sage advice and encouragement.
1. Thanks for the well wishes and understand her lack of enthusiasm is just where she is.
2. I agree with your sunny outlook that a great life is unfolding before me. It makes me think of DNJ. He has a great life no matter what his w has decided to do with her life. You have a great life too. I have a great life too! That is a wonderful acknowledgement and brings a smile to my face.
3. Yes there are things that $uck in my life right now but I love what you said: I have an unwavering belief that things will be better.
4. Absolutely. Time and space. There are now substitutes or shortcuts.
G
Hello Gordie
You speak from such a good place. Wonderful to see.
I like your acceptance of things. The lessening of anxiety regarding uncertainty, that fear you told me about long ago. Its grip seems to have loosened quite a bit - so very freeing. Awesome.
Something really great happened in my life, a real life accomplishment.
Congratulations! I can feel the joy and pride from even over here.
Like roist said, coming through this strengthens and builds a person. And I totally agree with what you said.
You bet you do!
DnJ
Quick update:
W and I have been spending a lot more time together this summer: family time, alone time, walking, traveling...and talking. W has specifically been opening up more about herself and what she has been going through. She speaks of our near divorce in the past tense and expressing gratitude and happiness that we are still together. As many of the vets here warned, she has a fog about everything she said and did. I am okay with that and my desire for the big apology has lifted over time. We are better at expressing and resolving our conflicts and both feel safe saying ILY when the moment strikes. We have also resumed our marital relations.
For those of you still in the thick of it, I wish you the best. The key that all of you taught me is to really give the person in depression/crisis all the time and space they need. W can see now that she was very lost and unhappy with everything in her life and that she directed the blame towards me. So even when your spouse spews at you, really give yourself a break. Take a hard look in the mirror and improve what needs to be fixed but remember so much of this crisis has nothing to do with you.
No, you cannot control the duration or intensity or the feelings that are part of this journey and ultimately whether you remain married or divorce. You can only control your choices and what you do every day. You are bigger than this crisis. You do have choices. When I stopped blaming myself for everything and seeing myself as the victim is when I was able to start healing and finding the power from above and within to move forward.
Gordie,
I am so happy that things are working out for you and your wife. Your posting is spot on. You have to give them lots and lots of space and time to sort things out and yes, many times over, dig deep for patience. We have no control over the duration or intensity of their journey.
Keep up the good work.
Wonderful update from you Gordie,
Your explanation is spot on. We both are the exception rather than the rule here (regarding reconciliation) and I believe the common denominator is that we both gave them the time and space to go on their journey while also giving ourselves the same.
Wonderful update. Just what I needed to read today, as I believe my H could be hitting rock bottom. It reminds me I need to be careful to not rush the process. I am lovingly showing compassion for his pain, and letting him sort through his intense turmoil he recently has expressed to me. Thanks for the uplifting update.
Thank you Gordie-I've read some of your back threads. This is inspiring to me, and I am using it as my inspiration to keep giving my H the space he has requested. It's his journey, and my journey is now just my journey. Hopefully roads intersect again in the future. You are a lighthouse!
Gord, I'm glad to hear such a positive update and you are totally right when you say that we have to let them go thru what they "have" to go thru. You sound as if things are going well.
How are the kids relating to you two getting on better?
Glad to hear from you, Gordie! And glad that things are going well! It's been a long road, and you have been traveling it well.
#teamgordie
Job westo grace barb SBJ sjohn6: Thanks for all the well wishes.
One more thing to encourage you. I recently met an man a few decades my senior and we got to talking. Without my prompting, he started telling me about his marriage. He shared his w went through a crisis and blamed him for everything and they divorced shortly thereafter. They had small children and they remained friendly but he moved on and started dating other women but still missed his xw. Two years after the divorce they decided to start dating again and remarried later that year. Crazy, eh?
SBJ: the kids are doing well. They are happy that we are spending more time together. They dont talk of the past either and they observe us but do not provide commentary or ask questions.
Hello Gordie
Its wonderful to hear how you are doing and how things are working out.
I am very happy for you my friend.
DnJ
good for you Gordie! it's been a long road for you. xoxoxo
That was a great update Gordie
You are a role model on how to handle a spouse in crisis.
Well done and totally deserved.
Gordie, it is always such a lift when you visit the boards and tell us how you are. I am so glad that how you are right now is deep into restoration. How beautiful that your patience was rewarded in this way -- and how wonderful that the reward can come to your kids and your W too.
Joel
When I stopped blaming myself for everything and seeing myself as the victim is when I was able to start healing and finding the power from above and within to move forward.
I am wondering about what you say here. What I am struggling with lately is the realization that my own wound has been and still is driving me-- that I feel that I was somehow bad, that I deserve this, that I have to frantically try to show everyone -- H, his mother, the friend who is paying for his D, etc. -- that I am the good one, that I didn't do anything wrong. I realize that this is a slavery and a wound that I have to heal with God's help. But to some degree, seeing myself as the victim is the first step in understanding that I am not to blame. So what do you mean by that? I know I shouldn't feel like a victim and that I should become a warrior in this spiritual battle but aren't we actually victims of something beyond our control, and don't we have to build from that point up?
Maybe this question belongs on my thread, answer either place.
Send you and your family several boatloads (container ship-size) of love.
Gordie, I have only been trolling on here lately as well, but I have not seen an update from you in a while. I hope and pray that all is going well with you and your family.
Like the man that you spoke with, I have totally dropped my rope and have decided to join the rest of the sheep in the dating pool. It is ridiculous out there. My ex has decided to move on with a man her age that has 2 young kids. Maybe she is trying to get it right this time...haha!!!
Thoughts and prayers going your way my brother!
Yes! Gordie! I also have been wondering how you have been. If you get a minute, check in with us and let us know how you're doing!
Hi SBJ and sjohn6,
Overall, life is good. Relationships with kids are great. Lots of unexpected professional success. Relationship with w continues to slowly get better, but has its ups and downs, as she has her ups and downs. I try to remember my hard earned skills to listen, not try and fix her, to provide assistance and advice when asked. Sometimes she opens up to me and cries and other times she keeps to herself. We are in the same bed but she desires no marital intimacy. When I get down, I pray and count my blessings. I remind myself that this is a marathon and not a sprint, dig for more patience and cling to the belief that this will continue to get better over time. I still get triggered on occasion but those times are fewer and farther in between. Thank you for all the support you have offered these three long years. I think of and pray for all of you often.
Good Morning Gordie
I remind myself that this is a marathon and not a sprint, dig for more patience and cling to the belief that this will continue to get better over time.
It is wonderful to hear about your grand relationship with your children, and the other successes in your professional arena. Both, at times, for me and Im guessing a great many of us, seem unexpected. It really should not.
When one survives and overcomes such difficult times, and heals from such pain and darkness; some very great and worthy insights are gained. This is an incredible opportunity for growth and personal success. A true blessing, in the most hidden of ways.
These personal gains reflect in our relationship with our children and those around us. Successes start to build as more and more people realize the changes within you. Compassion, empathy, forgiveness, and such - ideals that raise ones emotional quotient; the thing that allows us to connect with others. Success has to follow. Its a state of mind, we create it.
I have about the worst relationship with my XW as one can have. She seems completely indifferent to me. We have not spoken in a year and a half. Our R is as dismal as one can get - basically there is no relationship, no co-parenting (
if such a thing can actually exist), no anger, no messages through the kids, just nothing. However, my kids, my parents, my friends, my colleges at work, my mangers, all see the changes in me, my passions, the fire within. Those relationships are so much better than they were before. And so many opportunities have arisen because of the changes within me.
I believe God also sees the changes within me, and is pleased. His and my relationship is better too.
The big thing - I am pleased with my changes.
I believe you are of a similar path regarding personal changes and their benefits.
Your relationship with W has its ups and downs, and is, overall, slowly getting better (much different than mine). Which brings me to the aforementioned quote.
This is most definitely a marathon and one needs volumes of patience. Your relationship with W is getting better over time and should continue to get better. You can see that. Do you believe that?
A belief need not to be clung to. It clings to you. A belief is you.
A gardener nurtures, tends, waters, and cares for the plants and flowers. They cannot make them grow. They can only influence. The flowers grow on their own, at their pace.
We are all flowers and gardener within the soil of our relationships. For ourselves, the blooms we can control - shine those fully. And for the dormant flowers still wrapped within its sleeping petals - continue to nurture. See and believe in the wonderful blooms still to come.
You are a compassionate loving person. Keep tending the budding relationship.
I believe in you my friend.
DnJ
DNJ
Thanks for the encouragement.
Interesting what you say that we should not be surprised at the good things that have come for both of us.
And thank you for the encouragement and believing in me and the gentlest of 2x4s.
There are times when I feel strong and unwavering in my beliefs.
There are other times when I feel just full of impatience and doubt and questions and far from the person I aspire to be.
It is growth for me that I recognize those times and acknowledge: in my weakness, He is strong.
The old me was a strong believer that I could do it all on my own.
Gordie, how awesome that you came for a visit. I just dropped in recently too. Glad to hear that things for you are going well. I can imagine that you'd like it to be further, but it sounds good. How are the kids doing? Love to hear how they are handling all of this.
Ownit
Kids are doing pretty well with all this. For the older ones, this new mom is very different so they are negotiating that new relationship. My oldest has the hardest time with this because the values and beliefs are so different. My middle one I think is the most skittish. When we have a disagreement, he is immediately triggered that the end is near. I do my best to help them buy know this is hard for them too.
Hi old friends,
I just wanted to stop by and wish everyone a Merry Christmas / Happy Hanukkah / Happy Holidays. While I no longer frequent the forums I think of all of you, keep you in my prayers and wish you the best on this crazy and unwanted journey. I learned so much from all of you and I am very grateful for your companionship during some unbelievably difficult days, weeks, months and years.
Speaking now with a little distance, the wisdom found here was sound and the 2x4s needed. And yes, I have grown through all of these experiences. My GAL opened new doors for me which enriched my life. I became a less judgmental and more empathetic person. I became a better husband and father.
W and I are still married and we continue to slowly reconnect and build a new relationship. As other vets have told me, this too is a slow and non-linear process. But I still believe that my commitment to M is for life and that at the end of mine, I will be happy for having stuck through these difficult times.
Peace on earth to all of you.
Gordie,
Thank you for returning and giving us a wonderful update.
Merry Christmas to you and your family. May the new year be even more surprising and happy for all of you.
#TeamGordie - Merry Christmas Gordie to you and your family. My the New Year be filled with many blessings including Joy and Love.
Congrats on the progress my brother. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well. May 2020 be the year of successes for us all.
You are loved and we think of you often.
Merry Christmas Gordie
Wishing you all the best.
DnJ
Happy New Year my brother!!!
I pray that 2020 continues to get better and better for you!
#TeamGordie
Thanks for the update G!
Happy 2020
Hi Gordie, it was great to read your update! Take care!
Thinking of one of my favorite dads today.... I wonder often how you are and think of you often!
Gerda KYH Neffer SBJ DNJ Ownit AndrewP Job and all my other old friends
I regret to report that the last few months have taken a turn for the worse
The COVID-19 situation and having much more time together hasnt helped
W has fallen into another depression and is angry much of the time
Angry about the world, her life, and the littlest things can set her off
She can be kind and pleasant at times, but other times talks as if I am not present even if I am in the same room
She has made it very clear that she doesnt want me to touch her
Recently something bad happened to me and instead of empathy there was only anger towards me
This is like seeing a bad sequel to a bad movie
But I know she still has not fully dealt with her underlying issues
I know that I didnt break her so I cant fix her
Back to basics
Big man-hug ((Gordie))
#TeamGordie
Remember - just like the instructions from a flight crew, make sure You are safe and healthy before trying to help others.
Good Morning Gordie
I am sorry to hear W has regressed.
COVID, riots, and so on from the news, FB, etc. provide a constant pressure of the worlds problems. It gets everyone worked up. Especially those more controlled by their emotions. He anger and depression must be difficult to live with. For you and her.
I agree, it sounds like W is still processing underlying issues. For what its worth, anger and depression are further along than denial and running.
She has made it very clear that she doesnt want me to touch her
She has had an aversion to physical contact throughout. Off and on. Not surprising given what happened to her, so long ago. Her not touching you isnt about, or due to you. Her path, her timing.
Recently something bad happened to me and instead of empathy there was only anger towards me
I hope you are alright and whatever fallout from the bad happening is becoming nothing more than a memory.
Ws empathy circuitry is still being rewired it sounds like. Her journey is about her - something you wisely know.
She can be kind and pleasant at times, but other times talks as if I am not present even if I am in the same room
Do you mean she speaks angrily about/to you without regard for your feelings while in her presence? Or is it more like she doesnt recognize you? Emotionally and/or actually.
My XW has a few different personalities within her, from time before me or kids. Its weird to speak with or hearing those persons speaking. Same body, different inside.
Back to basics my friend. (((Gordie)))
How is work? How are you? Hobbies, yard work, whatever?
D
DnJ has wisely asked the right question: How is your GAL going? Impacted by Covid? What creative ways are you finding to keep the focus on yourself?
I'll be honest Gordie, this is not surprising to me. She pulled it together enough to get you to stop moving out, but I never felt that she did the hard work, only the bare essentials to keep you in the game.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, I truly do not mean it to, and I'm very sorry that my gut instinct on this has proven correct.
Yes, back to basics is all you can do.
Wishing you peace and strength. Loving kindness, meditation, google, will help you. You cannot help her, but you already know that.
xoxoxo
So sorry to read that your wife is now back in the tunnel of depression once again. I do not think that she faced and resolved her issues and it's going to take her some time to do so, if ever. She didn't want you to move out and she was able to maintain some clarity for quite some time. Hopefully, once things settle down and we get into the "new" normal routine/mode, she will have a bit more freedom to get out there and just breathe once again. So much going on around the country and the world right now and she may be feeling a bit confined and feels the walls closing in.
So, what do you do? Get back to the basics and just leave her be.
Please take care of yourself.
AndrewP DNJ Butterfly Job
Thanks for still being here for me!
Ive just been so frustrated lately that I needed to vent and it felt good to do so.
DNJthanks for the reminder about touching. Sometimes if I get too close she actually moves away. In terms of the bad thing it wasnt too bad, but her reaction surprised me. Imagine I accidentally hurt myself in a minor way and my wifes reaction was to spend the next 12 hours refusing to talk to me and playing really loud music and then finally coming to tell me that my expression of pain made her so angry. And the talking? She talks to the children about me as if I wasnt sitting in the same room (not negatively, but just as if I am not present).
Butterfly and Jobsadly, Im not too surprised either and know she has so much more she has to really deal with for herself. So the good news is my life otherwise is greatI have more friends and past times and work that keeps me busy and content. Paradoxically, my happiness aggravates W even more, so not really sure I can do anything about that.
Gordie, continue to stay in your own lane and focus on GAL activities. Let her do her.
xoxoxo so sorry this is happening.
Gordie, it has been a while since I wrote
in your Gordie style.
It kills me to see you going through any more pain. You are my friend
and such a good good good soul.
How could any woman not value you?
But God values you.
He sees everything you are going through.
He knows you are being wronged, and He will walk with you.
I've been trying to make sense of my past.
Realizing that my H maybe was always troubled.
He was just fighting it for me
until MLC hit and he couldn't.
Your W fought it for you.
I'd see that as a victory, not a "fake" attempt.
Phillipians 4:8.
She wanted to overcome her demons to stay married to you.
She needs to do a lot more to have a healed soul
and then a healed marriage
and then true love with her man.
But something in her knew enough to try.
Mine never tried once.
I don't know if she will keep trying.
But I would still say, Phillipians 4:8, she tried,
even if she doesn't have the courage to go all the way
and face herself.
I wish you had someone by your side who treated you as a king,
made you feel as special as you are.
But you are still the son of a King,
beyond special,
full of light.
Don't forget it.
I hate to see you back here for this reason
but it does make me so happy to see you.
Gord, catching up today. While I was happy to see your name, I'm terribly sorry to see your name on here. I have cut back to maybe logging on 2x a month to catch up with people.
All we have control of is our relationship with God and our own attitude. Keeping a PMA is tough when we see those we care about struggle, but know that God is working in the background even when we cannot see any changes.
You are an amazing husband and father...keep up the good fight.
I will continue to keep you in my daily prayers!
God bless my brother!!!
Thank you old friends for checking in on me.
Bttrfly--Absolutely sticking to my own lane...really, what else is there to do?
Gerda--You always have a unique perspective...I never considered her change as "fighting for me"...even the possibility of that brought a smile to my face.
SBJ--As I said on your own thread, your continued faithfulness to God is an encouragement to me...as I feel like I am really struggling in my own faith these days (and church being closed hasn't helped)...w is currently totally hostile to the church at present, so any expression of my faith is currently a source of conflict.
UPDATE
W has increased her self-isolation from the family.
She goes to bed right after dinner and then wakes up at the crack of dawn so as to avoid being in the bathroom at the same time as me or being with me when I go to bed or wake up.
A lot of the time, she walks around the house with headphones on listening to music or books.
I try to engage at a minimum in a little small talk with her every day, like a roommate, but nothing intimate and certainly no relationship conversations. And of course, no touching.
The one time per day where she consistently engages with the family is at the dinner table.
Most days I am good and accepting of my situation, and busy with my own work, life and the kids. But some days the whole thing just depresses me. When I feel lonely, I call one of my friends. This is what it is. One day at a time.
#TeamGordie
How are the kids doing? They've got to know that something is off. I'm sure that they are leaning on you to do a lot of the parenting.
A question you probably don't want to think about - is there another OM in the picture now? When you've seen these stories play out time and again, it's reasonable to think that might be the case.
AndrewP,
1. The kids definitely know something is off and yes, are more dependent on dad--for everything. This has its pluses and minuses.
2. Re OM, the thought has crossed my mind as I've lived that nightmare twice before and it's always a possibility, but here's why I think that's not in play right now: W has never previously hid the OMs from me; W is at home almost 24x7 due to COVID 19, so is not going out all the time; and W is not exhibiting the "I'm trying to attract a man" behaviors that she had previously.
Gordie - I'm going to ask you a tough question that's not very DB.
It's been 4 years now. You've been doing pretty much all the heavy lifting on this and it sounds like your W has no interest in doing any work to build a solid marriage with you but is just coasting along.
Is this the life you want? Given that the only person you can really control is yourself - what actions can you take to get to the life you want?
Keep in mind that my perspective is that of someone who has gone through divorce and out the other side. And it is "survivable" but also no fun at all either. But in hindsight, knowing that my ex was someone who wouldn't have put in any sustained effort and would have expected everything to be swept under the rug, for me - I personally - feel that I'm better off with that behind me.
AndrewP,
That is a more than fair question and one that I have asked myself more than once. And it's part of the reason why I came back here because the people here have been through this and they ask the uncomfortable and politically incorrect questions--and I like that! I have a close friend IRL and he and I have talked about that in depth (his wife left him and his kids several years ago).
I agree with your assessment of my wife's lack of interest in putting any effort into the m. She isn't and I think right now...she just can't. And right now, in the middle of it, it's not terrible but it's not a lot of fun either. As you said, I can only control me, and I choose to stand. It's what I believe. It's the "for better and for worse, in sickness and in health" vows.
I think of heartsblessing and other standers here and they warned me upfront...this was going to take a lot of time...maybe 10 years! and standing would be the hardest thing that I would ever do.
Well - you know that I've always been a big fan of your dedication Gordie and admire that.
But in the cases where there has been a turn-around, it usually comes after some sort of epiphany. If you've read for example Sandi's story it was a family friend who made her realize how much she had to lose. Others have hit some sort of rock bottom. Pretty much no turn-around reported here has happened with both spouses in the same home cruising along with the status quo although I'm sure it has happened. I think BluWave was one of those.
I remember that in the times when you did things for yourself and your wife had to "step up" and do the parenting because you were otherwise occupied on - as they say here - getting a life - that it helped her to realize how fortunate she was.
Are you doing much for yourself these days? I know there's not a lot that can be done perhaps. Take one or more of the kids camping as a special treat? Go on a retreat? I believe you did one of those and it really helped you find your centre.
Nag nag nag naggity nag nag
#TeamGordie - we're still here.
Gordie...I'm glad to see your name across my screen. I wish it were for better reasons.
I'm sorry to hear your W is still on the same path. I imagine covid isn't making that any easier. Your dedication is inspiring to me. I like the way Gerda put it, but I also think what Andrew said rings true. Sounds like your W has made efforts which definitely says something about her internal dialog, but she hasn't HAD to deal with her inner demons so she puts it off and maintains the status quo. That has to be a miserable experience for her. It can't be easy to live with someone you love who feels like that and treats you the way she does, after all the previously happy years.
There are so many bright people on this site that have great advise, all I can really add is to remind you that none of this is your doing. You didn't ask for this and don't deserve it, so try not to take it personally (I roll my eyes at myself for that as that seems almost impossible sometimes). This is and always has been about her. If there wasn't something inside her reminding her of her true self and how she really feels, subconscious or not, she would not still be under the same roof as you. Make sure you take care of you so you can take care of the kids...and W. If you aren't doing great its hard to make sure others are.
Hang in there...you have friends here. #teamgordie
Gordie, I've found much wisdom in your older threads since I arrived here last year. I admire your clear convictions and wish you comfort and strength. ((gordie))
Hello Gordie
Im sorry your situation, at times, pulls you down into a slump of depression. Your W is a sad lost soul who doesnt or cannot see the wonderful loving man standing in front of her. Her behaviour is truly about her, not you.
She gets up early and goes to bed early to avoid you. Are you sure? Did she actually say that? And if so, only believe half of what they do, nothing of what they say.
Her early to rise and early to bed behaviour is about her. Not you! Its her way of not dealing with whatever feelings arise when she interacts with you.
Now, you are wisely not pushing this, so she has very little to blame you for. And of course, her listening to music, keeping to small talk, etc. is all her efforts to attempt to remain free of those traumatic feelings lurking and rising to her surface.
We all think these MLCers need some rock bottom experience to awaken them. A few things, we dont know what is rock bottom to them. They define their lowest level. We define ours as well, btw.
We also dont know the emotional storm raging inside their heads and hearts. She may appear calm, and you, we, may look upon that as she doesnt care. Doesnt want to work on the marriage. And so on. Remember, its all about her. She doesnt have the resources to put into anything or anyone else right now. She doesnt care because she is unable to, not because she doesnt want to. She probably doesnt care about much right now. Depression is a huge part of her path. Remember she is driven to this behaviour. Running.
The idea of rock bottom is sound, just dont use your definition. I believe in the small details as well. The loss of the daily interaction, love, kisses, hugs, running and laughing with her children. That all accumulates. Her living under the same roof might constantly highlight to her just how much she doesnt have, how much she has lost. Dont assume she is all blissfully unaware.
Also, she is still living there. With you and family. Something is going on with her. Again, her outward appearance is not indicative of what she is emotionally doing inside. I suspect she has made progress. She still has difficulty expressing it, and shame, guilt, remorse, etc. all get in the way for her. She still has a way to go.
Now, you do know some of her trauma. I remember her telling you and even taking you to the place it happened. It takes time to heal a wound thats so deep.
You have gained so very much my friend. Grown so very far. Im going to turn my attention to you. Encourage and hopeful - as if youd expect different from me.
I agree with your assessment of my wife's lack of interest in putting any effort into the m. She isn't and I think right now...she just can't. And right now, in the middle of it, it's not terrible but it's not a lot of fun either. As you said, I can only control me, and I choose to stand. It's what I believe. It's the "for better and for worse, in sickness and in health" vows.
You are a great husband, father, and man. A person who does everything to keep his word. I completely understand, know, and empathize with your vows; and your desire to uphold them.
For better and for worse, in sickness and in health. Today, I actually explained my view to my doctor. He asked if I was seeing someone yet. Its been almost three years, and he means well. But, him never having walked in these shoes. I said no, and he asked no offers, no interest? I chuckled and said, no there has been interest both ways and offers. I paused as he looked and was puzzlingly interested, Its my vows I told him.
He didnt understand. I said its the vows. TIL death do us part. I meant it. I keep my word. He nodded in acknowledgment and probably a little bewilderment.
Now, I didnt want my divorce. And I didnt push for it. I can, and do, have a say in keeping my vows. XW destroyed hers. I need not follow suit.
Please dont misread that. Im not thinking Im not divorce; I am well cognizant of my marital status. Its my vow to my conscience and to God Im talking about. XW destroyed her covenant, which broke our bond. My covenant is still intact. I havent divorce me (yet).
Now, that view isnt all that popular. Even around here.
Im also not that blushfully naive that I cannot see the possibility of me choosing to break my vow someday.
This it seems is one of those contentious issues that people can really get heated over. My view is my view and for me. My belief is my belief and for me. I do encourage, suggest, and even guide to the best of my abilities. And completely support someones decision - to stand or not. For I know, I do not have all the answers.
That being said, I usually keep my soap box put away regarding this subject. However, Gordie, I encourage and care that you continue your faithful path. You state that you believe in vows. And you are not alone in that!
Of course, youre actually still married. A very good thing, IMHO.
True, its not terrible and not a lot of fun either. That does come from your viewpoint and how you are looking at things. Your lens of the world. We do create our reality, our perceptions of it.
Standing really starts when we heal enough to stand down. You passed that point a while ago. Dig and find strength and patience.
Yes, you have done most of the heavy lifting. The lions share falls upon the LBS, falls upon the strong and stable spouse. Rejoice that is you!
Its ok that your faith is wavering every now and then. Dont worry, He understands.
Hold your faith. Hold it for you. Its light shines bright. XW cannot help but see it. As she runs and tries to ignores it, continue your path, and let God do his work.
Bless you Gordie. You are an excellent person. A husband only a fool would leave.
D
Gordie, DnJ and Gerda have trouble all fitting on the same little soapbox. Fortunately we are mantle-sized. You guys are no longer on my mantle because my H is finally gone. But I still keep you in my pocket sometimes to remind me of stuff. I don't need to do that as often. Like DnJ always says, we have come a long way!
I am on a totally different path in a way because I couldn't be with my H again. And yet I consider myself still clutching a corner of that soapbox though I don't understand what that would entail. I have not posted much of the specifics in the last six months,but the not-physical violence against me of which my was-H is now capable is astonishing, exhausting, never-ending, working against his own financial interests, etc, and in looking back at our lives, I realized that maybe this isn't as surprising as I thought. There was a mental break, but, as I said, the original package was perhaps not the great man I thought he was. But yes, like I said, I think he was battling it for me. Or for God.
I know I could not be married to him ever again, and I don't even want to ever have to see him again. I am Catholic, and I am reading a lot about why the church grants annulment, I mean in a real faith-based way, not the way it is sometimes done -- I am positive my marriage would qualify because we truly did undertake our vows not as Christians and not understanding what it meant. If my husband was mentally ill, I certainly didn't know it. I know there were many many times I ignored an inner voice in regards to my was-band when he was just my boyfriend. I know I didn't value myself and didn't think a man would ever love or care for me in the way I thought a man should love and care for his wife. And we certainly weren't married in the church -- I mean that in a faith-based way, though it is also true in the material way. But I am still standing for something. I wear my wedding ring on the other side now, the widow finger, but I wear it, along with a ring that I think God put (literally and figuratively) in my path to replace the engagement ring I lost after taking it off in anger in the early days.
And when I saw what DnJ wrote above, I was SO happy about that, so happy to see what is on both of your hearts still. Even if the proximity on the soapbox for me and DnJ and some of my other "friendships" IRL have sometimes been very ....proximate.
For all of us, we know God is asking something from us, we just don't know what it exactly is. But we are trying to walk towards His will as best as we can, and I think that is why we are all three still able to see meaning and light in it. I am reading this book which talks about how different the life of faith was from what came before, starting with the OT but much more with the NT, that it was less about our unknown origins than our unknown future -- that faith comes from trusting God completely, without knowing what the future is, that the sacrifice God asks is your desire to control your future and to instead trust His plan for it. I'm not even talking about after death, but tomorrow, today, when Gordie's wife has her headphones on in the next room. I wish my H had left long before he did, and I think you'd have more peace if your W left for a while, but I know that the thought of you going about your day as best as you can, giving your loneliness and grief to God as best as you can, cooking dinner and laughing with your children while their mom is in the next room alone, that that to me is a beautiful light. I don't think this is what God wants for you, but maybe it's what God expects from you, at least until He makes it clear that your path has shifted. I am sure God wanted me to stand, even if it didn't "work" to bring mine back. I have to trust that the reasons for that will become clear as time goes on (and many are already clear), and that I'll never know all of them, but that walking in faith is how I get closer to God. And I know that to be true. You are laying down your life for your family, and maybe we're not even doing it "right," and certainly we can't take any action that will change the MLCer, but there can be no doubt that you are choosing your family over your own desires and even needs and that there is a lot of light in that choice.
I think some of this belongs in my thread, but here it is!
Hi Gordie
It saddens me to read about where you are at, probably because your situation had much more potential and at the time you were ready to move out your W seemed to realise some things. Unfortunately she has returned inwards and isn't in a place to want to let alone work towards a better M.
Did you make the right decision when you decided not to leave. Some may argue that it is allowing this situation to continue. But I'd like to look at it another way.
You can see she isn't right (as in ok not being right or wrong). She's not herself and she's definitely not happy. In your situation there is no wondering about that. Once separated, the unknown makes us wonder and the LBS usually assumes things are going well for the WAS because they now have what they wanted. Still at home or separated she still has to go through her crisis.
Your aim was/is to save your M. Being still "together" is closer to that objective than being separated. Whereas separation in some cases can help the WAS see their priorities change and they realise the true value of what they are leaving, in many cases it's an extra barrier to getting back to happiness together.
Living as ye are sure isn't fun and can be extremely difficult because you see constantly the differences between how you'd like to interact and the reality. That isn't easy to live with. I would also add it is no way to live indefinitely. Until the day you decide you prefer to stop living that way, your focus needs to be on how you are going to live in cohabitation. I'll expand on that in the next paragraph. Beforehand know that you are living that way because of a choice you made. This isn't a critic but know that is a choice you can change too. There is no pressure to decide today but know you have that power.
Now back to the how. How are you living? Are you living or surviving? It's important to take care if yourself. First advice that I would give you is to avoid focusing on the negative. By that I really mean on what is missing from your R. That leads on to the huge topic of expectations and intentions and the difference with reality. But that's a topic you surely know by now!! By focusing on what isn't there you don't see what is there.
You do seem to have accepted your situation as being as it is. That's good, but I suspect a part of you hasn't fully accepted it, which brings me back to my previous point.
It's good you have friends that you can turn too when down. That's great. Don't bottle things up BUT I would also avoid constantly pouring out about how bad things are. It's related to the point about what you focus on. I remember a story about a W who constantly bad mouthed her H to everyone around her. When she realized that this wasn't good or helpful she decided to stop. But her mother and others would refer to H as she had done previously and when she tried to state positive stuff about him there was resistance because they had been conditioned to thinking of him negatively. But more importantly the Person talking is also influencing their own brain.
It's great you have a strong dad role. I hear you in that it's probably not a fair sharing of parenting, but you are building a huge base for a great relationship with your kids going forward. That is priceless. Look at Irish and his R with his girls.
So what are you doing for fun. Every day do something you enjoy.
Get back to striving
As for the OM question from another poster, I think it's irrelevant in your case. Even if there is someone which I have a doubt, she isn't well. This isn't to excuse anything and everything. You need to know and respect your boundaries. Know how you would react if it occurred and then don't focus on it. Focus o you.
You have your evenings free or at least W free. Use them. Watch series you like, do hobbies, work out..... the list is endless.
Gotta go.
Best wishes
ROIST
Andrew, Sjohn6, DNJ, Gerda, and Roist,
Hello old friends. It's been months since I logged in. Happy New Year. I logged in to catch up on some of your threads and get some encouragement and I read what DNJ, Gerda and Roist posted in response to my last post and it's exactly what I needed to hear.
So here's the update. Yes, Covid and extra togetherness hasn't been easy, but it hasn't been terrible either. W and I are still married. We have had one relationship talk over the past few months and W asked that we just be friends and while it hurts to hear, I accept that as my reality. No, it's not the relationship I want, but it's the relationship I have. And I choose to accept that. I choose to stay in this relationship. I choose to stay. I choose to stand. Yes, I have my fair share of good and bad days and hopes, fears and doubts, but on balance, my life is good.
Actually, my life outside of my M is great. Fatherhood is great. Work is great. I have more extracurricular activities than I have had in years, partly because I spend so much less time with W than I used to, but also because they are a source of enjoyment. I don't know if I'm doing things right, but I'm trying my hardest to stay true to my values and continue to pray that things turn out how they are supposed to, even if they are different than what I want or how I imagined.
Even though I don't check in very often, I do think and pray for all of you.
Roist: You can see she isn't right (as in ok not being right or wrong). She's not herself and she's definitely not happy. In your situation there is no wondering about that. Once separated, the unknown makes us wonder and the LBS usually assumes things are going well for the WAS because they now have what they wanted. Still at home or separated she still has to go through her crisis.
Gordie: True, she is still going through her crisis.
Roist: Your aim was/is to save your M. Being still "together" is closer to that objective than being separated. Whereas separation in some cases can help the WAS see their priorities change and they realise the true value of what they are leaving, in many cases it's an extra barrier to getting back to happiness together.
Gordie: Yes, for me, I choose to see being together is closer to my goal than separated.
Roist: Living as ye are sure isn't fun and can be extremely difficult because you see constantly the differences between how you'd like to interact and the reality. That isn't easy to live with. I would also add it is no way to live indefinitely. Until the day you decide you prefer to stop living that way, your focus needs to be on how you are going to live in cohabitation. I'll expand on that in the next paragraph. Beforehand know that you are living that way because of a choice you made. This isn't a critic but know that is a choice you can change too. There is no pressure to decide today but know you have that power.
Gordie: Yes, thank you for the reminder that this is a choice. I'm not trapped, though I admit that sometimes I feel that way, so that's a good reminder.
Roist: Now back to the how. How are you living? Are you living or surviving? It's important to take care if yourself.
Gordie: I'm living well and taking care of myself, exercising my mind and body. Sometimes I don't sleep so well because we are still in the same bed, but sleep far apart from one another.
Roist: First advice that I would give you is to avoid focusing on the negative. By that I really mean on what is missing from your R. That leads on to the huge topic of expectations and intentions and the difference with reality. But that's a topic you surely know by now!! By focusing on what isn't there you don't see what is there.
Gordie: Another good reminder. I'm at this stage where it's easy to dwell on the glass half empty and forget the glass half full.
Roist: You do seem to have accepted your situation as being as it is. That's good, but I suspect a part of you hasn't fully accepted it, which brings me back to my previous point.
Gordie: True, there is a part of me that hasn't fully accepted it. I guess there's a mix of acceptance (or lack thereof) the current situation, and hope / expectation that things can get better.
Roist: It's good you have friends that you can turn too when down. That's great. Don't bottle things up BUT I would also avoid constantly pouring out about how bad things are. It's related to the point about what you focus on. I remember a story about a W who constantly bad mouthed her H to everyone around her. When she realized that this wasn't good or helpful she decided to stop. But her mother and others would refer to H as she had done previously and when she tried to state positive stuff about him there was resistance because they had been conditioned to thinking of him negatively. But more importantly the Person talking is also influencing their own brain.
Gordie: Good reminder. I confide in a few buddies, but we talk about everything and only sometimes about M.
Roist: It's great you have a strong dad role. I hear you in that it's probably not a fair sharing of parenting, but you are building a huge base for a great relationship with your kids going forward. That is priceless. Look at Irish and his R with his girls.
Gordie: Another good reminder. If it weren't for this crisis, I wouldn't be spending this much time with my kids and that is a gift.
Gerda: For all of us, we know God is asking something from us, we just don't know what it exactly is. But we are trying to walk towards His will as best as we can
Gordie: I feel like this. I know God is asking something from me, but I don't know exactly what it is.
Gerda: I think that is why we are all three still able to see meaning and light in it. I am reading this book which talks about how different the life of faith was from what came before, starting with the OT but much more with the NT, that it was less about our unknown origins than our unknown future -- that faith comes from trusting God completely, without knowing what the future is, that the sacrifice God asks is your desire to control your future and to instead trust His plan for it. I'm not even talking about after death, but tomorrow, today, when Gordie's wife has her headphones on in the next room.
Gordie: I confess that I have a hard time trusting God completely. It's why I say my faith isn't very strong. I'm a doubter.
Gerda: I wish my H had left long before he did, and I think you'd have more peace if your W left for a while, but I know that the thought of you going about your day as best as you can, giving your loneliness and grief to God as best as you can, cooking dinner and laughing with your children while their mom is in the next room alone, that that to me is a beautiful light. I don't think this is what God wants for you, but maybe it's what God expects from you, at least until He makes it clear that your path has shifted.
Gordie: Yes, I think for now this is what God wants of me.
Gerda: I am sure God wanted me to stand, even if it didn't "work" to bring mine back. I have to trust that the reasons for that will become clear as time goes on (and many are already clear), and that I'll never know all of them, but that walking in faith is how I get closer to God. And I know that to be true. You are laying down your life for your family, and maybe we're not even doing it "right," and certainly we can't take any action that will change the MLCer, but there can be no doubt that you are choosing your family over your own desires and even needs and that there is a lot of light in that choice.
Gordie: Oh, Gerda, that is so touching and heart-warming to read. It's the perfect encouragement.
DNJ: You are a great husband, father, and man. A person who does everything to keep his word. I completely understand, know, and empathize with your vows; and your desire to uphold them.
For better and for worse, in sickness and in health. Today, I actually explained my view to my doctor. He asked if I was seeing someone yet. Its been almost three years, and he means well. But, him never having walked in these shoes. I said no, and he asked no offers, no interest? I chuckled and said, no there has been interest both ways and offers. I paused as he looked and was puzzlingly interested, Its my vows I told him.
He didnt understand. I said its the vows. TIL death do us part. I meant it. I keep my word. He nodded in acknowledgment and probably a little bewilderment.
Gordie: DNJ--you get me, you always have.
DNJ: Now, I didnt want my divorce. And I didnt push for it. I can, and do, have a say in keeping my vows. XW destroyed hers. I need not follow suit.
Please dont misread that. Im not thinking Im not divorce; I am well cognizant of my marital status. Its my vow to my conscience and to God Im talking about. XW destroyed her covenant, which broke our bond. My covenant is still intact. I havent divorce me (yet).
Now, that view isnt all that popular. Even around here.
Im also not that blushfully naive that I cannot see the possibility of me choosing to break my vow someday.
This it seems is one of those contentious issues that people can really get heated over. My view is my view and for me. My belief is my belief and for me. I do encourage, suggest, and even guide to the best of my abilities. And completely support someones decision - to stand or not. For I know, I do not have all the answers.
That being said, I usually keep my soap box put away regarding this subject. However, Gordie, I encourage and care that you continue your faithful path. You state that you believe in vows. And you are not alone in that!
Gordie: Yes, that's part of the reason why I came back, here to get DNJ-type encouragement.
DNJ: Of course, youre actually still married. A very good thing, IMHO.
True, its not terrible and not a lot of fun either. That does come from your viewpoint and how you are looking at things. Your lens of the world. We do create our reality, our perceptions of it.
Standing really starts when we heal enough to stand down. You passed that point a while ago. Dig and find strength and patience.
Gordie: I remember the first time you told me this and it hit me like a tone of bricks. Oh yes, that's when the real standing started and I guess, I'm still here.
DNJ: Yes, you have done most of the heavy lifting. The lions share falls upon the LBS, falls upon the strong and stable spouse. Rejoice that is you!
Its ok that your faith is wavering every now and then. Dont worry, He understands.
Hold your faith. Hold it for you. Its light shines bright. XW cannot help but see it. As she runs and tries to ignores it, continue your path, and let God do his work.
Bless you Gordie. You are an excellent person. A husband only a fool would leave.
Gordie: DNJ, thank you as always. And yes, I'm trying to nurture this little mustard seed.
There are few things in life that bring me as much joy as seeing that Gordie has posted something except seeing that he has posted something to me!
I read this last night and it pierced my H-moving-back-to-my-city depression with a light of Gordie-ness.
You have given up your haiku style and are now a playwright. Both are excellent styles.
I was thinking about your sitch this morning. I was thinking about how many women would jump at the chance to have a man like you or rather specifically YOU. And how many people would say that you shouldn't stay in this marriage where you are not valued or able to show your love to a woman, let alone be loved by a woman emotionally, physically, etc. Many would say that is not a marriage.
But from a faith perspective, it sounds like exactly what God meant about laying down your life for your friends or praying for your enemy. You have given up what you deserve, what your greatness as a man should have earned you. There is no secret that the life of faith is not an easy one. It's HARD. You keep talking about how little faith you have but can't you see that it's only faith that allows you to make this choice? It makes NO sense in the earthly realm but for some reason it makes sense to your heart. That's a grace. That's "ears to hear" and that's "being called to the supper of the lamb."
Think about it -- if our MLCers were able to follow God's word against their own wills, that would be faith and would have kept them from destroying so much. Their will is telling them to do one thing but God's word tells them to do the opposite. That's the point of the word! It reminds us of what to do when we don't want to do it. I don't want to do it 50% of the time! But I overcome my will and let myself be guided by the word (esp what it says about children and family) and truth and goodness and love, at least whenever I can master my will.
And I'm not even saying that I think you should keep doing that til the day you die. I am not standing for my H anymore, but only for my kids -- I am not dating and I am just devoting my life to being a family of three and providing for my kids against difficult odds. I'm scared of my H and have reevaluted who he was this whole time, not just since BD. I figure God will make it clear one day if he wants me to have real love from a man sometime. And maybe I'll stray from this path at some point, I do miss having a guy to hang out with and sometimes hang out with guys I know but then retreat without crossing any lines. But I mean true love, true giving of yourself to each other.
Point is -- You are standing even if you decided at some point you didn't want to live this way anymore.
But I just want to say that you have way more faith than you realize. Your entire life and all the choices you are making now are based on it. We can't really know that God exists except by seeing his love given from each of us to the other, especially when that other doesn't deserve it. I don't know if your reward will be that one day your W will love you as she should or that you'll have a new life with a different woman who does or neither or both at different times, but I do know that anyone looking at you loving when your love is not returned has proof that God's love is real. Your children for sure, but also all sorts of people you know are watching and many you don't even know you have impacted.
You are the proof, you are the light.
Gordie, it is always such a treat when you come back and visit. A breath of fresh in a stale room. A less sighted and more succinct DnJ. I hope all the kiddos are doing well. Sounds like you are holding your own.
good to see you Gordie, as always friend. xoxoxo
Good Morning Gordie
It is wonderful to hear from you. And Im glad you understand me as well.
I also recall the ton of bricks upon my head when what it means to stand hit me. Seeing that, understanding that, and then choosing that, gives an inner strength and peace. It comes from ones control of self, the only control we have.
I love seeing your choices, and respect each and every one. Its in those very choices that our blessings within this incredible opportunity unfold. Look at a few of your blessings: Fatherhood is great; work is great; active and happy. Have faith, things do turn out like they are supposed to, and I never imagined Id being living this life either.
Some DnJ-type encouragement for my good friend.
I don't know if I'm doing things right, but I'm trying my hardest to stay true to my values and continue to pray that things turn out how they are supposed to, even if they are different than what I want or how I imagined.
Stop trying your hardest. Realize after all these years you have been doing it - not trying to do it, actually doing it!
Move beyond worrying or knowing if you are doing things right. Live your values and beliefs. Believe it, you are doing things right!
Realize things already are as they are supposed to be - right now. And Ive no doubt things will evolve and progress as all things do, although not on your time, on Gods time. No need to fret and pray for things to turn out like they are supposed to, for they already are. God has not forsaken you. And whatever He holds for your future will be revealed in time. Are you praying for things to turn out like you want or like God wants?
I believe this wording suits you better.
I am living my values and staying true to my beliefs. My life is much different than I ever imagined and I thank God for being so blessed.
Youre a bright light my friend. Never believe differently.
D
Gordie, it is a pleasure to see you here. I think of you often, as well as Gerda, DNJ and about half a dozen other people on this board. Your insight and perspective are an inspiration to more than you probably know. The way you are living your life through this makes me want to be a better man (always trying to be better). I thank you for that!!
I can not even imagine what it must be like to still live with your MLC'er after all this time. I don't know how you and Gerda do/did that. You have so much to be proud of...I hope you realize that. You are a shining example of what it means to be loyal, faithful, humble, determined, and a giver of unconditional love. So much more to list, but I hope you know and realize these things about yourself. One of the important things to me from the beginning of all this mess was to make decisions that I could be proud of and not regret later, regardless of what that meant at the time. In the emotional upheaval of DB, that was a hard thing to realize and get on the right path with, but I tried hard and I can honestly say that I did it...and so have you!!
I am happy that you seem to be living your happiest life possible within the confines of standing while also exhibiting an ongoing effort to continually improve yourself and those around you. Like I said...you are an inspiration. I'm not glad that life put you in a circumstance to find yourself on these boards, but I AM happy to have met you (even if just digitally). I feel the same for all my dear friends here...especially Gerda, you, and DnJ.
When it gets quiet and you are feeling down, remember that not only do you have friends here, but that we actually think of you often...even if you aren't posting.
I hope your day is a good one. If not, make it one!!
Gordie, I still think of you all the time and wonder how you are. Your gentle soul is always a light in my mind, and your love of your wife as part of your love for your kids. A poem for you below, reminds me of your slow and steady labor to "bear fruit that would last." I told the same to DnJ -- I would love to send you the book that is changing my life at the moment, Heading Toward Omega. I hope you will find and read it wherever you are!
Happy Father's Day, my friend.
Landscape, Dense with Trees
BY ELLEN BRYANT VOIGT
When you move away, you see how much depends
on the pace of the dayshow much
depended on the haze we waded through
each summer, visible heat, wavy and discursive
as the lazy track of the snake in the dusty road;
and on the habit in town of porches thatched in vines,
and in the country long dense promenades, the way
we sacrificed the yards to shade.
It was partly the heat that made my father
plant so many treestwo maples marking the site
for the house, two elms on either side when it was done;
mimosa by the fence, and as it failed, fast-growing chestnuts,
loblolly pines; and dogwood, redbud, ornamental crab.
On the farm, everything else he grew
something could eat, but this
would be a permanent mark of his industry,
a glade established in the open field. Or so it seemed.
Looking back at the empty house from across the hill,
I see how well the house is camouflaged, see how
that porous fence of saplings, their later
scrim of foliage, thickened around it,
and still he chinked and mortared, planting more.
Last summer, although hed lost all tolerance for heat,
he backed the truck in at the family grave
and stood in the truckbed all afternoon, pruning
the landmark oak, repairing recent damage by a wind;
then he came home and hung a swing
in one of the horse-chestnuts for my visit.
The heat was a hand at his throat,
a fist to his weak heart. But it made a triumph
of the cooler air inside, in the bedroom,
in the maple bedstead where he slept,
in the brick house nearly swamped by leaves
Gord, catching up today. While I was happy to see your name, I'm terribly sorry to see your name on here. I have cut back to maybe logging on 2x a month to catch up with people.
All we have control of is our relationship with God and our own attitude. Keeping a PMA is tough when we see those we care about struggle, but know that God is working in the background even when we cannot see any changes.
You are an amazing husband and father...keep up the good fight.
I will continue to keep you in my daily prayers!
God bless my brother!!!
Looking for SBJ on Father's Day but his thread is shut down so I will post a poem for him here in case he ever comes along to check. Thinking of you today and hoping you are well and staying close to God. Much love to you from me, and a poem just for you.
In the High Country
by David St. John
Some days I am happy to be no one
The shifting grasses
In the May winds are miraculous enough
As they ripple through the meadow of lupine
The field as iridescent as a Renaissance heaven
& do you see that boy with his arms raised
Like one of Raphaels angels held within
This hush & this pause & the skys lapis expanse?
That boy is my son & I am his only father
Even when I am no one
Gordie, thinking of you today and many other days. Here's a poem gift to one of my favorite fellows on the planet, don't know if you will ever show up here anymore but I hope one day to hear some of your beautiful thoughts again.
- Gerda
Beatitudes
by Khaled Mattawa
1.
My child wants to know if the mountains really cowered.
“How do you know when a sea or a river is afraid?
How do you know when the sky is thinking yes or no?
And why did Adam say yes—Did he know that
all the other creatures refused? Was he arrogant
or just ignorant? Was he God’s last choice?”
2.
“Did you really have a party the day the dictator died?
And you had a cake decorated with all the flags?
Did you think his death will fix everything?
Why did we spend all that time there?
Why couldn’t we just stay here?
Isn’t this our country too?
And all these people fleeing and drowning,
what are they hoping for? Whose fault is it?
How long must we wait for things to improve?”
3.
She speaks to me in our language
in front of her friends, to share a secret,
or—cool and beaming—to show off.
I wonder how long it will last, this pride,
this intimacy. Sometimes she puts her arm
next to mine and tells me I have the lighter skin.
“Why are you doing this,” I ask.
But she doesn’t point to the flag
or say, “It’s the way of the world.”
Instead she tells me not to worry, that she is “the most
kid kid in my class, the least mature one, Baba!”
Not all kinds of wisdom console, I tell her.
Then I begin to think of words she’ll soon hear
that can make her wish she wasn’t who she is.
Lead me to virtue, O love, through the smoke of despair.
4.
“Let’s walk through the woods,” she tells me.
“Let’s walk by the rocky shore at sunrise.”
“Let’s walk through the clover fields at noon.”
In the rainforest she is silent, mesmerized.
She’d never prayed—we never taught her—
but she seemed to then, eyes alert with joy.
She points to a chameleon the size of a beetle,
teaches me the names of flowers and trees,
insects we can eat if we’re ever lost here.
“I’m teaching you how to entrust the world
to me,” she says. “You don’t have to live
forever to shield me from it.”
Gerda....
I talked to Gordie last week....he is doing really, really well....
Gerda....
I talked to Gordie last week....he is doing really, really well....
Hey Mach, did Gordie's W ever come around?
Gerda....
I talked to Gordie last week....he is doing really, really well....
Hey Mach, did Gordie's W ever come around?
I'm not convinced, that is my story to tell..
I will pass along that there is a strong clamoring for an update...
Gerda....
I talked to Gordie last week....he is doing really, really well....
Hey Mach, did Gordie's W ever come around?
I'm not convinced, that is my story to tell..
I will pass along that there is a strong clamoring for an update...
Understood. Man he had a wild ride!
please let him know I was asking about him and wishing him well!