Previous Thread:
Holy cow! It's Tad!So about an hour ago, I made the decision to go to S24's baby shower/party/bbq. I sent him a text letting him know. About 15 minutes later I received the following text from him:
"OM is not going tomorrow so no stressing ok?"
WOW.
I get the feeling that OM was seeing if I would actually go. When he found out that I was, he decided not to.
I asked S24 why OM wasn't going and I got this response:
"He came from a generation where men don't go to showers."
1) He's the same generation that I am.
2) This isn't your average baby shower. It is more of a party/celebration of life.
But.....I'm relieved. Instead of dealing with OM, it'll be XW, XMIL and XSIL.
Will still be interesting...
Tad
Lol.. see!!!
Sometimes unexpected things happen and makes us wonder with a smile!
i' m so happy for you!
Enjoy your day!
I'm glad you are going. You worried yourself sick over this and now can go and enjoy the party.
Good Morning Tad
Glad to hear how things are turning out.
Hope you enjoy the day! Pretty sure you will.
DnJ
Delighted it worked out this way. Hope you are enjoying yourself. Whole thing reads like a d@mn game of chicken on the part of OM. I could be wrong, been known to happen ... but I'm super glad you can go and have a good time xoxo
Thanks everyone.
I went to the party, but I'm really p!ssed at myself. She still has a hold on me and probably always will. I guess I'm just disappointed in myself and am not as "done" as I had thought. I may never be "done" at this rate.
This sux.
I pulled up at the party and S28 was arriving just as I was. This was nice, because we were able to walk in together. XMIL saw me right away, but didn't say anything. I didn't either. After about 30 minutes or so XSIL found me and said hello and asked how I was doing. I actually ended up talking to her more than anyone. It was almost like old times....times that if I'm honest, I miss. She was always like the little sister that I never had. I miss her. She was about 12 the first time I met her. We've always kind of had a neat relationship. I never had a sister and she never had a brother. (She did have a half brother that she didn't get to know until they were both adults.) So, we've always had a brother/sister thing going.
I finally asked XMIL how she was doing, but that was it. Very cold. Wasn't surprised.
Most of the night, I was across the room from XW. I'd glance her direction every once in a while and she would glance my way too. But....at one point, there was a moment. Yeah, A MOMENT. Our eyes locked and I swear...there is/was something there. It was so strong and she raised her hand and waved to me. I waved back and finally had to turn away. I got emotional and looked away and started talking to my son. I couldn't look directly at her, but I'm sure she noticed that it bothered me. Not sure if it bothered her. I didn't keep looking. I couldn't.
Later while gifts were being opened, the year 1985 was mentioned in conversation. I blurted out that '85 was a great year. (That was the year we were married.) She giggled. A few minutes later, she told S26 about the night we decided on his name. (I was surprised that she actually acknowledged something that happened in the 1990's where we were concerned.)
The funny thing is, we didn't talk directly to each other at all. (The boys have told her that I want nothing to do with her.) But there was that moment. We connected. It just really bugs me though that we can have a "moment" but she can be so cold and indifferent towards me too.
There is an old George Jones song called "He Stopped Loving Her Today" about a guy that loved a woman until the day he died. I wonder if that will be me.
My grandmother used to tell me that I was too sentimental...that I was a sentimental fool. Maybe it is because she was my very first "true love" or maybe I just have a really bad personality flaw. Maybe I'll never completely be "done." After all my tough talk of not wanting to be friends and wanting nothing to do with her, and after all of the lies and everything that she has done....she still has a hold on me.
I hate it and hate the fact that (even though I no longer know her) she still gets to me.
Tad
Tad,
Don't beat yourself up! It's okay. You love/loved this woman for many years and had children w/her. You can't turn your heart off and on and it takes lots of time to get over someone, especially if the loved ran deep.
I am glad you went and you reconnected w/your XSIL and you were courteous to your former MIL as well. It shows that you have class. As for the former MIL, no one knows what your XW told her about the situation, but I'm glad she saw that you came and spoke to her other daughter. Tad, try to remember...you did nothing wrong.
I think you have come a long way and I am very proud of you for going to the party. I'm sure your son and girlfriend were happy to have you there as well.
It's a new day, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward. You did great!
Thanks Job. I appreciate it.
Yes, the love did run deep. I may not be able to turn my heart off and on, but it seems that she can. She is just so cold. I almost believe that the reason she left was because I was no longer good enough for her and even though I made decent money, it wasn't enough. I think A LOT of it had to do with money. Even one of my sons has made that comment in the past.
Again,thanks. Yes, I have come a long way, but not as far as I thought.
Really bummed right now.
Tad
Darrin,
Your love was pure and your commitment was TRUE!!
How can you say you were not enough? You 2 build years together. You created life and these life are now creating more. The blood line contunues. She did not have this with anyone else. And she will never share this with anyone else.
If money is what she left for, she was a fool.
When your eyes locked, you did not see the cold stare. This alone says something.
I agree with you. It hurts, it [censored] but no one can take the Good years you shared with her.
Don' t be hard on yourself. Be proud and thankful for the years you shared.
Job' s words are golden : " YOU did nothing wrong ".
Overall, it sound like you had a good time with your boys!
Ps. If you would have gotten the finger instead of the wave, you would have felt differently today.
I am glad you went. This gathering was family oriented and within the circonstances, it was pretty good!
Thank you.
I have a little more time to write now that I'm home from work. I didn't sleep much last night and the sleep that I did get was consumed by dreams of XW and OM. Bttrfly mentioned that this whole thing seemed like a game of chicken on the part of OM. Maybe, but what would be the point? Is he afraid? Is XW afraid? Are they just ashamed of what they did and can't face me together?
I forgot to mention earlier that when we were going through the divorce, she had a terrible cough. She blamed it on me. Well, she still has it. Or....it just magically came back last night. (Personally, I think it is nerves.)
As for the former MIL, no one knows what your XW told her about the situation, but I'm glad she saw that you came and spoke to her other daughter. Tad, try to remember...you did nothing wrong.
Job, I'd be willing to bet she has been told all sorts of things. She used to love me and would light up every time I'd walk into the room. She's known me since I was 16. I was in high school when I met her. I even lived with them and went to school for a short time. (Long story.) At the time, she told me that it was "so nice that XW was dating someone that was decent." I guess it just bothers me that she obviously believes anything that she may have been told about me. Last night was the first time I had seen her in about a decade.
I think you have come a long way and I am very proud of you for going to the party.
Thank you. Knowing how I feel today, I am even more glad that OM was not there, but I am glad I went for my son.
How can you say you were not enough?
Thanks for the response Diane. My XW has always been a little materialistic and is even more so now with the MLC. She has always been in competition with her friends and even to a greater degree with her sister. Every time her sister did something, XW had to do it better. It will be interesting pretty soon though...her sister just got engaged again. That means a nice big wedding....XW will have to out-do her somehow.
The blood line continues. She did not have this with anyone else. And she will never share this with anyone else.
True. She'll never have that with anyone. She'll also never have the relationship/history that we have. Our relationship was built on love and trust. Her current relationship is built on deception and lies. You'd think that it would catch up with her eventually...or that she would realize just what she has done. I'm not the best-looking dude, don't make tons of money, but I was always 100% faithful and we had a great history. The fact that she can just dispose of it like an old pair of shoes really bothers me.
When your eyes locked, you did not see the cold stare.
Right, but what was it? It was almost a peak of the old XW that I fell in love with, not the cold, terrible person that she has become. It just still baffles me how cold and indifferent she is. When she dropped the bomb, she was DONE. That's it. Finished. No discussion. 25 years gone. End of story.
Don' t be hard on yourself. Be proud and thankful for the years you shared.
I am proud and thankful. I don't think she is. I actually think she views them as wasted years. If she was thankful for them, I don't think that they would be that easy to throw away.
You know, I see her all of the time at my son's shows and it doesn't bother me as much. I think the problem with last night was that it was a family setting....my boys, my niece, XW, XMIL, XSIL....like it used to be. There were people there that I used to have great relationships with, but are now no longer "allowed" to socialize with them.
Then, there was that eye contact that was NOT the shark eyes...for a brief moment, it was the old XW. My girl. The girl that I loved and would do anything for. She was there....and then gone again.
I'll be honest. I've been doing pretty good lately but, am a little ashamed that things like last night still mess me up. Maybe I should just man up and shut up. People get divorced every day. In October, it will be nine years since bomb drop. NINE FREAKING YEARS. And, I'm still coming to this board...
Tad, I checked in to find out how it went and I am totally mystified at your interpretation of your heart and your self!
I was really kind of glad when I saw what you wrote. Not glad you suffered, but glad that you confirmed that love is real and forever.
You love unconditionally. You committed your heart and you still love your woman, the love of your life, even if her body is currently occupied/overtaken by an alien.
Why is loving her when you saw her, the real W, across the darkness, why is that a reason to beat yourself up?
Every woman on this board longs for a man who loves like that.
Your W is the one whose heart turned to stone. I don't know your story but assume it's the same one we all have, some trauma from her past, never resolved, blamed on you.
If her MLC has nothing to do with you, why would it be possible for you to kill the love you felt for her? Why just because she chose to trash her life would it mean that you would be able to kill your own feelings?
The point of GAL and all the rest is to learn how to walk through the pain and make a life for yourself and heal. Being a rock doesn't mean your heart became stone.
I am sorry for all your pain, and I know that brand of pain well. But I see your love as a victory. It's a cross to bear, and if you don't want to wait for XW, I am sure that you will one day heal enough to give that love to someone else and to feel the sting of it for your XW less than you do right now. But to me, it's a victory that you feel that kind of love, it will be a victory if you feel it until the end, and I don't think you should ever try to stomp it out, even if you have to put it in a little box when you meet someone else. It is a horribly sad sad thing that happened to your marriage and to the woman you knew, it is okay to think about it and grieve for it anytime you see her. It's normal to miss her, it's not a sign of weakness. You had the courage to go to this event, you had the courage to hang out with her, you had the courage to face in-laws who don't understand you. (And the force of your goodness and your rightful place at that event was even too much for the slimy interloper to bear, he skulked back into the shadows for the day.)
You are brave, strong and loving. VICTORY!
Good Morning Tad
I am glad you went to the party. I know how difficult a decision that was to make and accept.
That was made when OM was still to be going. Our biggest steps are the internal ones; but aren’t all the steps really internal?
Your outlook and situation changed a bit, with your internal shift.
I eagerly awaited news on how the party went and how you felt and fared. I was glad to see it was drama-free and without incident. It is very good of you to speak with XSIL and XMIL. Cordial, amicable, kind, and with feelings stirred is a very good outcome from such an event.
I did postpone responding with my own thoughts and encouragement. As I said, eagerly awaiting - I wanted to think on this for a spell and not just feel it.
I saw an internal shift within you; I propose a few more. Feel free to tell me “DnJ you’re out to lunch!”. I won’t be offended.
I went to the party, but I'm really p!ssed at myself. She still has a hold on me and probably always will. I guess I'm just disappointed in myself and am not as "done" as I had thought. I may never be "done" at this rate.
This sux.
My grandmother used to tell me that I was too sentimental...that I was a sentimental fool. Maybe it is because she was my very first "true love" or maybe I just have a really bad personality flaw. Maybe I'll never completely be "done." After all my tough talk of not wanting to be friends and wanting nothing to do with her, and after all of the lies and everything that she has done....she still has a hold on me.
I hate it and hate the fact that (even though I no longer know her) she still gets to me.
A different internal view perhaps.
Of course she has a hold on you.
My XW, her memory and our wonderful life together, totally lives within me.
One cannot rid themselves of their feelings and memories. Feelings are not within our control, our thoughts are, and they can influence our feelings and beliefs.
If one is attempting to be done with their spouse it will lead to regret, resentment, disappointment, and being p!ssed. Instead, realize the truth and embrace it. You loved your W, and still do.
I love my W, XW, mother of my children - whoever, how ever many layers of detachment you wish to place between - I still love her. Love her enough to let her go. Her and I lived and loved for 30 years. That just doesn’t go away, and I suspect it won’t. I can love her and someone else, my heart is big enough.
I do not believe you have a personality flaw. After all she has done, the lies, everything - it is ok to love her. Do not hate that! You possess a fine quality that you see as a flaw - shift that internal perspective. Please!
Be accurate in thought and heart. Does she really have a hold on you? Or is it you doing the holding? On yourself and her? Fear?
It is ok. Accept your feelings, understand, be compassionate - especially to yourself.
Flip this completely on its head. Do a huge 180.
I hate love it and hate love the fact that (even though I no longer know her) she still gets to me.
Looks weird right?
Love and hate are both of the same desire and passion, just different ends of that spectrum, and only a razors breadth apart. Indifference is the opposite of that desire.
Hating, show passions and desire. Look and accept it from a loving point of view. There is nothing wrong with your feelings. It shows much about Tad. Much good about Tad! Embrace that. Love that.
Something we have all heard:
Accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
You cannot change or erase your feelings or past. Choose wisdom and accept.
Kindness, compassion, understanding, forgiveness, and acceptance.
Tad, I see you right on the cusp of a wonderful shift within yourself. You have seen your feelings, you know your feelings. Now you just need to look at them and yourself from a different perspective.
Then, there was that eye contact that was NOT the shark eyes...for a brief moment, it was the old XW. My girl. The girl that I loved and would do anything for. She was there....and then gone again.
I'll be honest. I've been doing pretty good lately but, am a little ashamed that things like last night still mess me up. Maybe I should just man up and shut up. People get divorced every day. In October, it will be nine years since bomb drop. NINE FREAKING YEARS. And, I'm still coming to this board...
You have nothing to be ashamed of; you are a good person. I think you know manning up isn’t the answer that works for you. Most of us, that find our way here, are cut from a different cloth. There are other website that support a more cut and dried approach; and not a very compassionate approach in my opinion.
You, Tad, are worth the effort required for the compassionate and forgiving route. Believe that!
I do hope that makes some sense. I am willing to discuss and explorer anything further that you wish to, or I could just be out to lunch.
DnJ
Thank you Gerda and DnJ.
Where to start...
I was really kind of glad when I saw what you wrote. Not glad you suffered, but glad that you confirmed that love is real and forever.
Yes, I believe that love is real and forever. I married XW forever. I've always believed that if I ever became single again, for whatever reason, I would not marry again.
You love unconditionally. You committed your heart and you still love your woman, the love of your life, even if her body is currently occupied/overtaken by an alien.
Haha. "Love of my life." Very true statement. I used to tell her that all of the time. She never minded hearing that she was the love of my life until all this started. Then, she told me to stop saying that she was the love of my life. Funny thing is...I knew the first time that I ever saw her that I was nuts about her.
December 23, 1983I was 16 years old. She walked by my house as I was standing outside. Her eyes got my attention. Absolutely beautiful. I did not talk to her that day. In fact, it was another six months before I would even see her again but.....I knew. Sound crazy?
Why is loving her when you saw her, the real W, across the darkness, why is that a reason to beat yourself up?
I don't know. I guess that maybe I think I should be past it by now. I know a lot of divorced people that have moved on....
really moved on. I thought I had.
If her MLC has nothing to do with you, why would it be possible for you to kill the love you felt for her? Why just because she chose to trash her life would it mean that you would be able to kill your own feelings?
? ? ?
Never thought of it like that....
But I see your love as a victory. It's a cross to bear, and if you don't want to wait for XW, I am sure that you will one day heal enough to give that love to someone else and to feel the sting of it for your XW less than you do right now. But to me, it's a victory that you feel that kind of love, it will be a victory if you feel it until the end, and I don't think you should ever try to stomp it out, even if you have to put it in a little box when you meet someone else.
Thanks Gerda.
Honestly, I'm not looking for a new relationship. I would like someone to do things with if I found someone that had the same likes and dislikes as me, but I really have no plans for another relationship. Even if I did get romantically involved with someone and even if I did break my own rule and get married again, I honestly can't see myself ever feeling the way I felt about XW. Plus, I'm 51. This kid didn't age well.
I saw an internal shift within you; I propose a few more. Feel free to tell me “DnJ you’re out to lunch!”. I won’t be offended.
Nah DnJ. It's all good. No worries.
You loved your W, and still do.
Maybe, but I feel like I
shouldn't. I mean, after the cheating, lies, cheating, cheating, lies, lies, and cheating,....
?
I guess I just feel like that unless I bury the way I feel about her, I'll always hurt. I'm tired of hurting, sadness...all of it. I've been doing pretty good lately, but the event just seemed to stir up a lot of emotions. I actually had to turn away when our eyes locked the other night because I didn't want her to see me upset. Like I said, I was disappointed that those feelings still existed. Thought I was pretty much done.
I do not believe you have a personality flaw. After all she has done, the lies, everything - it is ok to love her. Do not hate that! You possess a fine quality that you see as a flaw - shift that internal perspective. Please!
Thank you. I'll try.
Be accurate in thought and heart. Does she really have a hold on you? Or is it you doing the holding? On yourself and her? Fear?
Not sure...I think though if she
does still affect me like she did the other night, I would say that she has a hold....or something.
You have nothing to be ashamed of; you are a good person. I think you know manning up isn’t the answer that works for you. Most of us, that find our way here, are cut from a different cloth.
Thank you. Thanks for the kind words. I don't believe that you are out to lunch. Today was better, but still a little down. Proud of myself that I went, just wish that it didn't affect me the way it did. Just surprised me a little.
I need to get out and do something tomorrow.
Tad
I’m very proud of you for going! Your son must have been so happy. And it sounds like you went in there, held your head high and enjoyed yourself.
As far as your ex. I think me and my ex are the most detached ever and truly have no feelings for each other. 9 years together, 4 married. Of course I’m in communication and seeing each other often because we share a young child. He has been married to his OW for 7 years now. I have a wonderful boyfriend. We still have fleeting moments rarely of connection. Does it mean either of us has a strong hold on each other? Nope. It’s just human nature when you share so much with one person.
Stop being so hard on yourself. You are human and aren’t going to be dead inside towards someone you shared your life with. That’s an actual impossible expectation.
Tell me, do you think you would have been happier if you missed the event?
And FTR, I think OM was intimidated by seeing YOU. That’s usually how it goes.
Stop being so hard on yourself for having feelings. They are completely normal!
Hi Tad,
I have very little to add. Just my 2 cents.
It was expected of many that you come to the shower. It was indeed a GREAT show of character to engage and talk to XSIL and XMIL. As job said, it's a demonstrative display of class on your part. It shows that you've risen above all the sh!t, even if you genuinely haven't.
I will guess OM did not appear because of your presence.
As for the cross to bear of still loving your XW, I don't know what to say. It's very hopeful on your part, that you still see a touch of the old person in there.
Thanks Ginger1 and Brubeck.
I've always had a tendency to be hard on myself. As for being happier if I hadn't gone....not sure. I'm glad I went for my son. Just wish the whole thing wouldn't have bothered me so much. Again, I think a lot of it had to do with it being a family setting.
As for XW, I suppose I will always love her to some extent. Loving her though is what makes all of this so difficult.
I'm doing better as time goes on. I will see her again at my son's concert on May 17th.
Tad
Your love is a triumph, Tad. Nothing to be ashamed of. Something to be proud of. It hurts. But -- it's beautiful, it's a light. From the darkness, your love for her does not look like weakness, it looks like a very strong flame.
Thank you Gerda.
Very nice words.
Tad
Hey everyone. Just checking in.
I'm doing better since the baby shower "moment.".
I was supposed to see XW at S26's concert on the 17th, but she backed out at last minute. That seems to be a common thing lately.
I've been trying to take care of my health, but my sugar has been high again lately. The 2 year anniversary of my heart attack and stopping smoking is coming up. Still haven't lost the weight that I want, but I'm still trying. (Ongoing battle.)
Anyways, just wanted to check in. I've been spending lots of time outside and taking animal pictures.
Tad
Stress will elevate your sugar and blood pressure. Keep in mind, you were "stressing" for quite some time over the baby shower. It will take some time to get it back down. Cut out the starches and more salads should help.
Thanks job. Appreciate the response.
I was stressing quite a bit. Managing Diabetes is tough even two years in, but I'm getting there. I've always been a meat and potatoes and bread guy so it's been rough. Can't eat a lot of the stuff that I enjoy.
I'm about ready to turn into a salad....
Hi tad,
I still get upset when having to deal with ex or being confronted with memories.
It’s like seeing a ghost.
I don’t necessarily know if we are actually mourning something that was real though. It was real to us at the time. We loved and had the capability to love. But I don’t think our ex’s were capable of loving that way. I think we project the way we love and feel onto them. We think, “I felt love so he/she must have loved me the same way.” But I don’t think they just changed with a crises due to childhood problems. I think things were no longer easy for them and they were no longer gaining. So they bailed. When I look back, there were so many selfish things he did that just never registered. I bet most of these waywards were similar.
I think the battle is mostly with ourselves though.
I am a little late to this party but my .02 for what it is worth.
Since bomb drop I have taken 3 genetics classes and that actually has helped me look at some of
this with a different perspective.
You were married for a long time and you have children together.
Those children you will love like no others for the rest of your life.
Now they are made up of 50% you and 50% your ex.
So no matter how much you detach from her and let her go,
you will never do that for the 50% of her that is in your children.
You will love them unconditionally.
This also has helped me with forgiveness and puts a whole new spin on the past 35 years.
Hope that makes some sense.
Thanks JujuB and Cadet.
I still get upset when having to deal with ex or being confronted with memories.
Me too. I'd rather never have to deal with her again, but I know that is unlikely since we do have kids together.
I don’t necessarily know if we are actually mourning something that was real though. It was real to us at the time. We loved and had the capability to love. But I don’t think our ex’s were capable of loving that way.
I agree. I do know that she loved me, but not sure if she loved me the way that I loved her.
When I look back, there were so many selfish things he did that just never registered.
Yeah. I see this now too.
This also has helped me with forgiveness and puts a whole new spin on the past 35 years.
Thanks Cadet. I suppose this is my biggest problem. While the pain has subsided and I'm mostly "over" her, still not sure if I can completely forgive her. I know that I should and forgiveness is mostly for me, but still can't right now. Maybe some day, but not yet.
Tad
Tad,
I am on the same boat as you. Every time i feel ok with things, i hear a comment from one of the kids that triggers me to the core. Calling your child names to belittle him or her and blaming their withdrawl from him onto me is getting really old.
And i am suppose to forgive him?
Not in my book.
I beleive, eventually, they will be tired of hearing sorry with no behavior change. I know i did.
I no longer make excuses for him nor will i accept his empty apologies until i see a behavior change wich will probably never come.
Thanks exquisitetobe.
I am on the same boat as you. Every time i feel ok with things, i hear a comment from one of the kids that triggers me to the core.
Yep. I get it. I'm doing pretty well, but sometimes I get triggers that p!ss me off or make me sad. Sometimes, it will be a comment from one of the boys, or a movie or a song....anything really. Maybe the triggers will always be there....
??
They say that forgiveness is for us but, I can't do that yet either. I don't want to live the rest of my life being bitter, but can't forgive just yet.
The thing that bothers me an awful lot sometimes is the time that has gone by. This all started two weeks before my 43rd birthday. I'll be 52 in October.
THAT bugs me. I feel like so much time has been wasted. I realize that I moved a little slower than others on this site and it took a lot of time for me to get where I'm at now, but I sometimes feel that I wasted so much time on
HER.
That makes me angry at myself.
Tad
Tad, change the title of this thread to something positive and about you!!!
Good Morning Tad
They say that forgiveness is for us but, I can't do that yet either. I don't want to live the rest of my life being bitter, but can't forgive just yet.
What does forgiveness look like to you? Is condoning, and absolution wrapped up in it? Do you see it as an all or nothing thing, or can it be a process, like steps?
Do you think it is a choice? “I can’t do that either” or more “I won’t do that either”. One is impossible and one is possible with time and effort.
I am willing to share, would like to share my views, and I am very interested in your’s.
DnJ
For quite some time I thought forgiveness meant condoning. Then I realized it was for me to find peace in my heart. Forgiveness was releasing the grip they had on my emotions.
My life seriously changed after that
I’m in the same boat as tad. I know that being angry is bad for me. That anger is bad for my body and soul. But I can’t help it. I am not at that state of indifference. I don’t feel like it’s a conscious choice to be angry. Maybe there is consciousness in saying “hey think of something else. these thoughts are bothering you” but my ex”s actions really made my current life difficult. Every day, I’m confronted with it because of my son and financial situation. And when he shows up late in his black Mercedes with red interior it’s just a huge slap in the face of all that missing money. And the way I contributed in our relationship and thus lost my money to him.
I try so hard to raise my son to be a kind hearted and responsible member of society. But then I think, hey maybe I am doing him a disservice by doing so. It’s the responsible and loyal people that get screwed in the end.
It might just be a time issue. Post traumatic stress is a factor. Betrayal and financial rape is pretty traumatic.
Or perhaps it’s the current state of our lives. Or maybe becoming more zen like and learning to accept and be appreciative of our current states. I don’t know the answer, only that it’s easy to logically understand letting go of anger but hard to actually do so.
Tad,
I heard what I believe to be a great statement on a YouTube Video one day and it helped me. "Forgiveness is giving up the ability to trying to change the past."
I hope that helps some.
Thanks Ginger 1, DnJ, JujuB and joejoe1.
^^^ Lots of similarities in those user names. ^^^
Honestly, I think forgiveness is condoning. It's probably not, but that is just the way I feel. That's the way I've always felt.
I
do think it is a choice. I'd like to hear your thoughts DnJ. Fire away.
Maybe it would be an easier "choice" to forgive with an apology. (I know, I'll most likely never get one.)
Yes Ginger1, she does still have a grip on my emotions...not like before and not always, but sometimes something will trigger the emotions.
Nice quote joejoe1. I'll let that sink in.
JujuB, I wouldn't say that I was necessarily angry....maybe disappointed, bitter, disgusted....not sure, but not really angry...not anymore anyways. And yes, her actions did make my life totally different from what I had planned and very difficult for a long time. Thankfully, things are better now. Not where I want to be, but I'll take it. Having said that, I do enjoy being single, but I do see what you are saying.
I sometimes think that maybe this is just what life is or what it is supposed to be - heartache, stress, worry, pain....I'm sure everyone has it to some extent. We are just the ones that happened to get our hearts broken. Stupid thought maybe, but that's how I feel sometimes.
I received a wonderful compliment from a lady friend/coworker yesterday. She said:
"You could be married right now if you really wanted to be. You're on point with so many things and have so many wonderful qualities Darrin."
Wow.
Funny thing is, I have absolutely no desire for marriage or even a relationship right now. As I've said, I just can't imagine ever having feelings for someone the way I felt towards XW. Maybe it will change, but if it doesn't, that's okay. Anyways, I thanked my friend. It was one of the nicest compliments that I've received in a very long time.
With the exception of triggers every now and then and getting fired up at the thought of meeting OM, I'm in a decent place. I spend a lot of time in nature and taking pictures. It's what I enjoy and do it whenever I can. They say that the MLCer becomes the exact opposite of what they used to be. Well, I think the same can be said for us too after we travel this road we are on. I used to be a pretty famous local radio celebrity who could be at a party every night if I wanted to be. Now, not so much. No thanks. I'm happy taking my pictures and being alone - the opposite of what I used to be, but....
I'm okay.
Tad
Yes, we changed.
My fear is to be replace. I see OW as a competition. A woman who wants my life.
That is what OW1 wanted. A good family man, a good husband and father. She told my kids she loved them after spending 2 days with them. She even cut my youngest hair. I was furious.
Unfortunately, by seducing ex-h and destroying his family, she got an empty shell of a man and realised he was not who she thought and dumped him.
For obvious reasons, i did not see my ex-h as this wonderful husband and father anymore either. Never have since. All OWs are people i do NOT want to hear about They are not part of my life. I don' t want to have anything to do with any of them.
When i get rapped up with the past, i use a phrase he used on me: " There is more to life then this."
My fear is unjustable. I am obviously replaceable as a wife but i will never be a replaceable mom.
I do feel not good enough sometimes. I do think maybe the kids would have done more and had more things if they were with them. Then i hear a comment ex-h said or something he did and i it is enough for me to know thiings are right just as they are.
I do my best. I pray for help and guidance. I am bless with 4 amazing children and i love my life as it is.
Tad, i have followed you for years and i agree with your co-worker. You are an awesome guy!
In reference to loving someone else has you loved your wife... Is it possible to love again. Yes.
Is it easy... No Can it be strong and deep. Absolutely
For me, It is when i try to open my family life to a man that i back off. It feels wrong to me still.
Maybe because i still have children at home?
For you, i beleive you could. You just have to open your heart and let someone in. If you chose to.
I said it before and I will say it again --
Your undying love is a triumph. It is the definition of love. It almost doesn't matter what she did with it, that only makes it more beautiful.
You did not waste any time. Quite the opposite. You gave your heart to someone for life. And if you are a man who is capable of giving that kind of love, I am sorry to say that it is impossible to stop giving it just because she stopped taking it, stomped on it, went crazy and stopped seeing the reality of it, etc.
If she never wakes up and/or if you do ever decide to love someone new, the years you spent staying true to the love you gave will only make you a more wonderful catch.
As a woman, when I read that you are still suffering, I think more of you. Sometimes I read on these boards about guys moving on quickly and it breaks my heart, as if they are moving on from ME. It throws my whole vision of love into doubt. What you say restores what I believe of love.
It would all be easier for you to see it as a beautiful thing if you had faith! It's what you DO with your love and how you give it that gives your life meaning, not what you get from it.
But take it from one long-suffering love-giver to another -- I get it. It hurts like h%ll and mostly it seems like it would be so much better to just harden the heart forever and not feel those feelings anymore.
Radio, huh? I do V/O myself. Get the heck back out there and start talking into a microphone. Do it in another town where no one knows you, or start auditioning on voices.com. Just to do it, even if you don't get work. Getting back into V/O after BD has given me so much fun in my life, so much energy and a channel for those feelings. It restored my confidence and let me be really social. If nothing else, volunteer for Librivox. USE YOUR GIFTS, they were given to you and they will give back to you.
(((TAD)))))
Thank you for the response exquisitetobe and Gerda and thank you for the very nice words.
My fear is to be replaced. I see OW as a competition. A woman who wants my life.
^^ That is interesting. I never feared being replaced, but my XW
DID. She was the one who dropped the bomb and cheated yet she was the one that feared being replaced. Shortly, after XW left, I started talking to a woman. (Let me just say, I shouldn't have been. I was nowhere near ready for any type of relationship.) It was just a friend type thing for a while...someone to talk to. On more than one occasion, XW would text something like: "Please don't let her replace me."
???
You did not waste any time. Quite the opposite. You gave your heart to someone for life.
Thank you Gerda. I actually told her many times in the past that I married her for life. Apparently, she didn't marry me for life. Haha. Somewhere down the road, if love happens for me again, I'll accept it and be happy about it, but I'm okay if it doesn't.
Sometimes I read on these boards about guys moving on quickly and it breaks my heart, as if they are moving on from ME. It throws my whole vision of love into doubt. What you say restores what I believe of love.
Thank you. I too have seen some that have moved on rather quickly on this board. On the other hand, I have often thought that
I moved too
slowly. Especially in the beginning, way back in 2011. I was stuck for a long time. I received a lot of 2X4's in the beginning. I was the 2X4 world champion.
Radio, huh? I do V/O myself. Get the heck back out there and start talking into a microphone. Do it in another town where no one knows you, or start auditioning on voices.com.
Haha. Nah. I had a wonderful career in radio and was very successful. But...23 years was enough for me. I got everything I wanted from it. I always wanted to be the number 1 disc jockey in my home town and I was number 1 a lot. I was nominated for CMA awards. I went out on top. Just like I wanted. When I lost my last radio job, I told myself that I was done. I've had offers to return, but turned them down. I like being normal. Being a celebrity was nice sometimes and had advantages, but it's not all it's cracked up to be. There were times that I would be out to dinner with XW or grocery shopping and I'd get recognized. (I
STILL do sometimes.) It was flattering, but it got old real quick. XW hated it and I can see why. As for voice overs, I had a home studio at one point, but gave all the equipment to my son for his band. I will still do some V/O from time to time if asked by a friend in a pinch, but for the most part, I'm retired from the radio. Now I'm behind the scenes in TV and I like it. I have been considering taking a photography class though.
Again, thanks for the responses.
Tad
Hello Tad
Forgiveness is a topic near and dear to me. Forgiveness is so very much for the forgiver.
What is forgiveness? Answers usually bring about more description of what it is not. We seem to know what is non-forgiveness. Things like - forgiveness is not vengeful, not hating, not seek retribution, etc... So forgiveness is just the opposite of non-forgiveness. Ah, it’s never that easy is it?
We wrap up condoning, acceptance, absolution, pardoning, and so on within the thought of forgiveness and it become a very large idea to either accept or deny, to have or have not.
My view of this is more like detachment or indifference; it is something you work towards in small steps. But what are we working towards?
Forgiveness is born out of understanding, compassion, kindness, and empathy. So forgiveness is those kind attributes. As it grows it expands to include clemency, mercy, and if it progresses enough perhaps even condoning and absolution.
Forgiveness is a feeling. Forgiveness is a thought. More than anything forgiveness is a choice and a belief. It is a core conviction, a value, a deep belief.
We all have an idea of what forgiveness looks like. I believe the real question isn’t - What is forgiveness. It is - How do I find forgiveness.
Just like detachment, indifference, fear, letting go, and so on - we need to learn about forgiveness. What it is, and how to achieve it.
Our world doesn’t generally support, encourage, or reinforce forgiveness. Just watch the news, listen to people talk about crime or some such thing. It is everywhere, judgemental attitudes, condemning viewpoints, lots of misunderstanding or outright non understanding, all pushing for penalties and punishment - very little compassion for our fellow man. Very little forgiveness.
This view is pervasive and unfortunately widely held. I was also one of the many, I am happy to now be one of the few.
So how do we find forgiveness?
Thoughts, feeling, beliefs - choice.
As others have said, we intellectually know forgiveness is a good thing for us. Something we want. But our feelings are different and we can’t get there.
Be accurate in thought and heart. Can’t - makes something impossible - it cannot be done. If we say, I can’t do that, you won’t be able to, your mind will make that real. Your mind is listening to you. Can’t, can, do, don’t, will, won’t, try, and such, all have an affect. These little effects add up, both positively and negatively and will affect one’s viewpoint and abilities. The power of positive or negative thinking is quite amazing, and underestimated.
The feelings that run counter to forgiveness. Just like fear, they are irrationally based, not reasoned or logical. One needs to stop feeding them, uncouple them, and acknowledge and accept them.
So we have a choice. Do you want forgiveness? Is that something you are heading towards? Is that something you choose?
We can only control ourselves, and that is our thoughts. Feelings are born from our subconscious and we have no direct control; we can only influence our emotions. Our beliefs are both thought and emotion, very deep, and slow to alter or change; again beyond the reach of our conscious control.
So, the intellectual path. We create and focus on forgiving thoughts. We know them, we know there are good for us. Be kind, compassionate, caring, understanding - in short forgiving. These thoughts change our feelings. Theses thoughts and feelings change our beliefs. This takes time, focus, and mental assertiveness.
Forgiveness is a choice, a belief, a way of looking at life. It is so much worth the effort. And so very much for you.
Forgiveness at first is a strange and unknown place. We are all comfortable in our equilibriums. No one want to push out of their comfort zone. Holding grudges, thinking vindictively, waiting for an apology, etc... - all comfortable. Push past all that and take a leap of faith.
I was looking up my past posts and ran across something I told, and still tell myself.
When it is all boiled down, it doesn’t matter what happened, how much at fault your spouse is, how unfair it all is, how much of a victim you are - it doesn’t matter. It is your life take control and ownership of it. Quit blaming anyone or anything else. Live it well and live it full. Be compassionate, loving, and forgiving. Be open, honest, loyal, and sincere. Be the best you will be. Time is marching on, start today, start right now.
It’s your choice.
- - - -
They say that forgiveness is for us but, I can't do that yet either. I don't want to live the rest of my life being bitter, but can't forgive just yet.
The thing that bothers me an awful lot sometimes is the time that has gone by. This all started two weeks before my 43rd birthday. I'll be 52 in October. THAT bugs me. I feel like so much time has been wasted. I realize that I moved a little slower than others on this site and it took a lot of time for me to get where I'm at now, but I sometimes feel that I wasted so much time on HER.
That makes me angry at myself.
Be accurate with your use of can’t.
Tad, the hard thing I found about forgiving - was forgiving me!
Forgiving ourselves is so very difficult. We blame ourself, we judge, we feel bad, we... well the list is long. It’s weird, we are the one forgiving and the one being forgiven. We can see both sides and yet we still have problems, we still
can/t won’t
do it.
I think you would agree, it is irrational. Non-forgiveness is irrational. Our feelings and fears hold us back. We need to work through them and accept them. Acceptance is just emotional understanding. So how?
Your statement - “I feel like so much time has been wasted”. It is a feeling. What do you
think about these years?
Looking intellectually I am sure you can see how much you have accomplished. The joy and pleasure of investing in years of photography. The distance you have come, the healing you have done, the man you have become - not a wasted effort or time!!!
These thoughts will stop feeding those feelings. Feeling are fleeting, when and if we let them flit away. See the thoughts and the truth about the years. Accept and let go the old feelings and welcome the new. Bring this into yourself, and believe in it and you.
See the truth and forgive yourself for the time it has taken to get here. Your journey is well worth it. The time well invested. The man, Tad, deserves forgiving.
Forgiveness is very near and dear to me. It is a choice, a belief, and a path of small steps. A path you are much further along than you may realize. A path I would be happy to walk with you.
DnJ
Soooo much here.
I'll have to read it again when I get a chance. (I'm at work.)
Honestly, I probably could forgive her. I just don't know if I want to. See, I believe that forgiving her lets her off the hook. (I know, that's the wrong way to think.)
But, I also know that forgiving her matters zero to her or anybody else. It only matters to me.
More work to be done.
As for my journey, I love who I am today. I'm far from the person I was when I came here in 2011. And for that, I'm thankful.
Tad
Good Morning Tad
Just a quick thing. I know wrote a lot, and don’t want to jump all over this.
Honestly, I probably could forgive her. I just don't know if I want to. See, I believe that forgiving her lets her off the hook. (I know, that's the wrong way to think.)
That is
not the wrong way to think. It is the right way.
Forgiving her of course will let her off the hook - a bit at first and then more and more. She won’t even know when you have let her off the hook. Thoughts become feelings then become beliefs.
Ask yourself this: Is the other choice better? Do you want to keep her on the hook? Never let her off of that?
Please read your statement with just a few clarifications.
Honestly, I probably could forgive her. I just don't know if I want to.
There it is, laid bare.
Is that you?
Is that who you want to be?
Forgiveness is for you.
Honestly, I can forgive her. I want to.
Say that a few times. I believe that fits you much better Tad.
I have wrote a lot, and as you said you need to read it again, which is wonderful - glad when my writings are not just dismissed.
Please fire away Tad with any feedback or follow up.
Hope you have a good day at work.
DnJ
Thanks DnJ.
Sorry took so long to respond. I've been pretty busy.
I really don't have anything to add at the moment. I just didn't want you to think that I was ignoring you.
As I said, I may forgive someday and I feel I am getting closer to it.
Know what today is? It is her wedding anniversary to OM. I shouldn't know that, but I do.
Tad
Good Morning Tad
I understand you are busy; nice to know you aren’t ignoring me.
I really didn’t think you were, by the way.
Sorry about yesterday; her and OM’s anniversary. You sound like a genuine and sincere guy, I would have been surprised if you did know the date. This stuff isn’t just forgotten. Sure, some push it down and ignore it, that just leads to dealing with things later. I think the healthy way is to realize and accept; it is ok to know.
Hoping you have a Happy Father’s Day.
DnJ
Thank DnJ and everyone else.
Just stopping by to get this all out.
It has been a very interesting 24 hours.
First, I had a grandson born earlier today. This is my second one, but I have never even met the first one. So, this is pretty much my first.
I've never truly cried happy tears. EVER....not even when my own kids were born. Today though, I became a blubbering idiot. And, I'm angry at myself for it. I'm sure XW really thinks I've turned into a sap. I've changed in my old (51) age. I'm so emotional over everything these days. At one point, I even asked XW why I was crying. She said, "You're happy." She seemed to understand, but really wish she wouldn't have seen that.
Anyway, my future DIL was in labor for nearly 19 hours with the new kiddo. I spent most of those 19 hours with the XW.
It's also been a trying and confusing 24 hours.
XW was weird this time. Looking for insight from the vets. Actually, weird is not the right word at all...she was normal. Yeah, NORMAL. It was like the old XW had returned....the girl I originally fell in love with.
Taking today's events, the "moment" we had at the baby shower and the last few times I've seen her at my son's concerts into consideration, I'm starting to believe that her crisis may be over or is winding down. Hoping to get thoughts. Although, if it is over or winding down, it makes me a little sad because as I said, the old XW, the one I was absolutely crazy about, seems to be returning.
I'll just highlight some of the things I noticed.
* Her appearance. When her crisis started, she went heavy on the hair styles, makeup, earrings, jewelry. The last two times I have seen her, nothing fancy about the hair, no jewelry at all except her wedding ring and not even any makeup. But, still beautiful. I say this because XW used to have just the most amazing eyes. There's an old Bob Seger song called "Night Moves" that used to describe her perfectly. It went: "She was a black haired beauty with big dark eyes...." Those eyes were replaced with cold, dark, shark eyes when she was in crisis. The shark eyes seem to be going away and I'm starting to see her eyes again. I 'm sure that this all probably sounds weird to some and I'm sorry.
* Anger. When she went into full-blown crisis, she virtually turned into a raging Pit Bull overnight. It was drastic and boy was she mean. I mean really, really mean. The anger seems to be gone now or at least decreasing.
* Eye contact. It's now back. For a very long time, while she was in crisis mode and hated me more than anything, she wouldn't make eye contact with me at all. Now she does, Matter of fact, in the waiting room at the hospital, I caught her several times looking right at me. Not directly, but she was sneaking peeks by looking at me in the reflection on the vending machine. I couldn't figure why she kept looking at the machine until I caught her and realized what she was doing. Keep in mind, there were others in the room and even two of our sons she could have been talking to. Instead, she kept staring at the reflection of me in the snack machine.
* Smiles and laughter. It's back. I've always been pretty quick-witted and quick with one liners or coming up with a punch line. I've never had a problem making her or anyone laugh. When she was in crisis, especially in the beginning, if I said anything that could have been funny, she would roll her eyes and just get more p!ssed off. There were many times at the hospital, that I had her laughing...not giggling, really laughing.
* Interest in me. Seems to be returning. After she had made it known that she wanted out of the marriage, she didn't ask anything about me and wanted to know nothing about me. Yesterday, she asked about my health. She asked about the homeless kitty cat that I feed. She even asked how my dad was doing. (He's had health issues for years.) For the first time since 2010, she asked how someone in my family was doing.
A few other events:
She seems to know what part of town I live in even though I've never told her. I'm sure she's heard it from one of our sons, but why? Why were they even talking about me at some point to her? I've always been terrible with directions and she knows this. Last night, when talking about driving home, she offered to help me with directions. "Well, you live in Scottsdale right? Well all you have to do is take "101" freeway over to the "17" and....." I jokingly said that "getting home is not the problem....the problem is finding my way out of the maternity ward." She laughed and said "well I guess I can help you with that too."
I was in the waiting room while baby was being born. She was actually in delivery. She sent me texts, videos or pictures every 30 minutes or so to keep me updated. I thought this was very nice of her and I thanked her every time.
I'm considering sending her a text tomorrow thanking her for all of the updates, but haven't quite decided if I should or not.
The really funny thing was after the baby was born. Things had settled down and I made my way back to the waiting room to give the new parents some privacy. XW came walking in a few minutes later, made some brief small talk and then told me that she was tired and going home to get some sleep. I really do believe she forgot about the situation and was about to give me a hug. I could be wrong, but that is sure what it seemed like. Once she realized what she was about to do, she stepped back real quickly, told me goodbye, turned around, and quickly left. Old habit? Maybe, but she hasn't hugged me in nearly 9 years.
That's all I can remember at the moment. I'll come back and add if I remember something else. Anyways, I was hoping to get some thoughts. I may be wrong, but I've thought for a little while now that maybe things could be winding down for her.
Not really sure how I feel about that.
Like I said, if things are winding down and she no longer hates me and is turning back into the old XW, am I supposed to be happy? Because I really can't say that I am.
THAT's the person I was married to.
Confused as ever.
Tad
holy crap Tad I dunno - seems like you might be right, but I defer to the old timers ... I will say that the birth of a child brings up lots of emotions and with grandkids I assume memories of happier times. kind of like the birthdays/holidays peeking out except maybe this is on steroids???
I guess I would say this: let's say it's winding down and she's coming out of the tunnel. in real terms how does that change your daily life? because in the end, this is really about you now, right?
congrats on the new baby xoxoxo enjoy every second.
Tad. I tend to agree with bttrfly on this. Does it actually change much day to day? She's married to OM and has been for some time. I would assume that you have no interest in being an OM in that relationship and certainly a moment of friendliness doesn't change how she feels about you.
I like to imagine that our former partners do have residual fondness for us. But they've moved on on their own paths. As have we.
I agree w/bttrfly and Andrew. She may be finally winding down on her crisis, but will that change anything between the two of you? She is married to the OM and you are still hurting from all of the damage that she left behind.
Bottom line, keep the focus on you and your family, especially the new grand child. BTW, he's adorable.
You are all right.
It doesn't matter and does not change a thing.
I've also decided not to text and thank her for all of the updates yesterday. I already thanked her. That was enough.
It's just really tough seeing and interacting with normal XW. Heartbreaking really.
Something I have to deal with I guess.
Job, glad you liked the picture of grandbaby. He is adorable isn't he? I'm going to give them time to get home and settle in and will probably go for another visit next week. I'm working a lot of hours coming up at work, so I probably won't get time to sneak away to see him until later next week.
Can't wait.
You have a God given talent of taking beautiful photos. You now have a new little person to take photos of and document his growth through photos. Tad, you are going to spoil this little guy....I can already see that from the photos.
Congrats on the new baby Tad. Just keep living your life. Keep moving forward. There´s no need to be hurt again with some maybe out of reality expectations. Better believe in that than trying to decode any kind of alien old W´s signal coming from her actual self.
It´s hard man. Remain into your real life, live your present. And enjoy your grandson!
(((((((((Tad)))))))))
Thanks Job and Neffer. I'm already planning on spoiling my new grand-dude. I can't wait.
After observing the behavior of my XW over the past 9 years and especially over the last few months, I've started to wonder about something.
Many of the articles here discuss how the MLCer starts to settle down, smile again, look spouse in the eyes and stuff like that once their crisis starts to settle down. I've even noticed it in my XW lately.
While that may be true, isn't it possible that some of the changes in their behavior have to do with changes in our behavior as well?
Just a thought...
Tad
Tad,
To answer your question, yes, it is possible for some changes that we make can actually be mirrored by our spouses/former spouses. However, I do think that your xw is finally settling down a bit and as time moves along, I may be wrong, but I think this new baby will heal some scars in both of your hearts.
Enjoy your weekend and take lots of photos of the wee one.
Thanks Job. I think she may be winding down a bit too. It will be 9 years since bomb drop in October so, it is definitely time I would think. Like I said though, it is a little heartbreaking since she is returning to the person I once knew. Maybe not the same person, but a more "normal" person...the person that I'm familiar with. I would love to know if she is still using the hormone cream.
As for my little grand baby, I'm totally stoked. I've only seen him on the day he was born, but will get to see him again this coming week. My S24 has been sending me daily pictures and updates. (Ones I've been posting on FB.) Can't wait to see him again and can't wait to teach him about animals and take him to the zoo when he gets a little older. It's funny, I don't ever remember being this happy when my own kids were born. Not sure why this is different, but I'm enjoying it.
Tad
Just journaling....
I think XW's MLC has left me very jaded.
I think this because I really have no desire for another marriage or any type of a relationship at all. I know that's not really a bad thing, but I've seen others on this board move on to a new relationship and even a second or third new relationship. Me? I want no part of it.
But the other reason and I know this isn't healthy....
I find myself worrying a lot. You see, I have a brand new grand baby that I absolutely adore. He was born on June 17th. S24 and "baby mama" are not married, but they say that they plan to get married "someday."
I fear and am absolutely terrified that something will happen between them I will not get to see the baby. (She has a six-year old from a previous relationship.) Maybe they'll break up before getting married and she'll vanish or maybe they will get married, but divorce and she'll vanish and I won't get to see the baby.
I'm afraid to get close to him. I'm tired of having my heart broken.
Again, I know this isn't healthy at all and I can't go through life like this, but it is something that I can't help.
Just wanted to tell someone.
Tad
Oh Tad sweetie - you've got PTSD. And while you think you're protecting your heart by not getting too close to anyone, in the long run that's hurting you.
As for a new relationship - it's not necessary. It can be nice, and life-affirming, but can be challenging. It might help free you, (it did me) but you also need to be strong enough to take what comes.
But you need to fill your life with friends and family if you're not going to seek another intimate relationship. And I think a good therapist could help you with your PTSD.
Hello Tad
Just wanted to tell someone.
I hear you Tad. I am sorry for the emotions that hold you.
I’ve been right where you are. There wasn’t a grand baby - it was my best friend and his wife (my W’s best friend). I had such a strong feeling that his wife was also going to suffer MLC. That they would break up and divorce. I was so terrified, I even called him in the middle of the night to see if everything was ok and to warn him. Thankfully my best friend was understanding.
I fear and am absolutely terrified that something will happen between them I will not get to see the baby. (She has a six-year old from a previous relationship.) Maybe they'll break up before getting married and she'll vanish or maybe they will get married, but divorce and she'll vanish and I won't get to see the baby.
You’ve said it very clearly. You are gripped in fear, terrified, paralyzed by an irrational emotional response to a possible future event. You need to uncouple your emotion from that possibility - then you will stop reinforcing your emotion - then you can let it go and let it wither.
Control. A lot of this is based from your perception of control - in a couple of ways.
To uncouple an irrationality from a perceived future possibility - rationalize it. Look at it with intellect only, just reason and logic - pure intellect doesn’t have emotions. (Get in your intellectual car for this next part)
If S24 and GF do at some future time break up, your being fearful and terrified is not going to stop it. You cannot control what happens with their relationship. S24 and GF are responsible for their happiness, their bliss, their problems, and their solutions. Yes, you could influence them, a bit, if they asked for advice. However, you are far from exerting any control over them. Their lives are very much
their lives.
Tad, drag this possibility into your intellectual realm and keep it there. Your emotions will have nothing to hold on to.
The second control to look at is yourself.
You can only control yourself. Emotions, feelings, desires, beliefs - none of these you can directly control. Your direct control only applies (mostly) to your physical self and your thoughts - reflexes, dreams, and other such things are why we only mostly control these. Actions and reactions, both physical and mental, are the areas where you can exert direct control. This direct control then influences our emotions, feelings, desires, beliefs, and so on. One cannot directly control their irrational emotions; one “controls” their irrationalities with acceptance and influence.
If you smile, you feel happy. A physical action influenced your emotional state. Thoughts have a similar affect and influence, the reason why you need to drag this into you intellectual realm.
Given time and repetitive efforts your thoughts and “new” feelings will influence and alter your beliefs, the deep held values that make your core convictions. When you believe you are no longer afraid - you will be so.
What a person can control is a small part of themselves, a small window or interface to their being. It takes time and mental assertiveness to influence change within. It can be done, believe it.
From what you’ve said I see three fears - a break up (projection of your relationship), not getting to see the baby (abandonment), and having heart broken (hurt and pain).
(((Tad)))
I’ve been here. Letting go of fear is so worth the effort. Believe in yourself, believe in the strength you have, you can face this and be free.
I know this isn't healthy at all and I can't do not want go through life like this, but and it is something that I can't help am going to change.
Look at your fears. Rationalizing the event (starts the uncoupling), influences your emotions, which leads to emotional understanding (acceptance), emotions are not reinforced and wither.
Like anything, this is accomplished one small step at a time. The first steps are the hardest - push back denial, admitting, and identifying. Tad, I think you’ve taken the first steps, do continue with the next one.
I’m right here, knelt down beside you...
FearDnJ
{{{{{{{Tad}}}}}}}
You are not alone.
Thank you bttrfly, DnJ and KML.
KML, about the PTSD - I've had others mention that to me before. Maybe I do have it. Hard to believe that someone could damage another person so badly.
I'm not totally against or avoiding a new relationship....I'm just not
looking for one and am fine if a new one doesn't come along.
Maybe a therapist could help me, but I really don't feel like digging up all that stuff again.
DnJ, yes I need to quit living in fear....need to stop worrying about something that I can't control. Very difficult to change my way of thinking. Will obviously take some time.
From what you’ve said I see three fears - a break up (projection of your relationship), not getting to see the baby (abandonment), and having heart broken (hurt and pain).
BOOM. Yep. All three.
I've had abandonment issues my entire life. My parents divorced when I was 4. I was tossed between parents and grandmother the entire time growing up...always getting pushed onto one or the other...my stepdad was military and we moved every 2-3 years without fail. The only
stable thing in my life was....my marriage. (Or so I thought.)
As for the hurt and pain:
That's interesting. I seem to be over emotional in some areas (animals, babies, innocent things) and ice cold in others (relationships.)
Make any sense?
My grandmother used to tell me to not worry about things I can't control.
Easier said than done.
bttrfly, thanks for the hugs.
Tad
(Still can't believe that I'm posting here.)
As for the hurt and pain:
That's interesting. I seem to be over emotional in some areas (animals, babies, innocent things) and ice cold in others (relationships.)
Make any sense?
Yes, that makes total sense. The areas where you're overly emotional are those which are safe. Relationships are a crap shoot. I get it. And yw, xoxoxo hugs any time xoxoxo isn't that what we're here for? To help each other?
Hello Tad
yes I need to quit living in fear....need to stop worrying about something that I can't control. Very difficult to change my way of thinking. Will obviously take some time.
I am glad to see your willingness to share and speak about this. Important steps.
A need to quit leaving in fear - very good. A desire to make that happen? I am pretty sure it’s there.
Looking at this whole picture is overwhelming, break it down into smaller pieces. You don’t need to change the way you think, about everything, all at one time.
Let’s start with one.
The only stable thing in my life was....my marriage me.
Looking back over your life you see the abandonment the shuffling from one to the other. Get this thought solid in your mind - you provide your stability. Not a marriage, not a job, not even DnJ (haha
) - You.
Your overly emotional responses to animals, babies, and other “safe” things is you processing feelings that have been stirred up. The ice cold absence of feeling regarding other relationships, in my opinion, shows denial. That is not a conscious choice, it is a subconscious mind not ready or willing to examine or accept something.
In both of these cases - you control you. Consciously stay in your intellectual car - by the way I’m guessing you read about the cars and highways I’m referring to - and seek a reasoned view of things. You can only influence your subconscious mind by your thoughts and actions. The reason why the intellectual car is so very important - that is the seat of your control.
So, in answer to you. Yes, this makes perfect sense.
I know this difficult inner work; I am knelt right beside you and I care. Just like detachment, which is what this really is, the process can seem rather counterintuitive at first and one has to take a leap of faith at times.
Now, where to start, which fear to look at? Which trigger? Which event? I would suggest abandonment and the baby, your grandson.
Get in that car. Stay intellectual, keep your emotional response out of this.
Your goal is to uncouple those fearful ideas and feelings from seeing and spending time with your precious grandson.
You, Tad, control you! Every time you can - see your grandkid. Control your physical self and hold him, go see him, lots! If this is causing you some panicked feelings - you are not in your intellectual car.
Look at what I propose. He is your grandson and you should see him. Let all those “other” thoughts and feelings flit away and enjoy these moments. Embrace them. Look forward to them.
That is how you start to change your thinking. That is a rational approach to this. Continue with other rational thoughts and justifications for this very worthwhile and loving relationship. I have many, I am sure you can find even more.
Your irrational side of this will loose its grip and become detached. Then it withers. Don’t feed it, let it wither.
Your grandson, this new person. He has done absolutely nothing so you know he is just a trigger. See that. Uncouple that. Follow the path and find the true source.
Remaining in an intellectual realm and therefore less emotional will cause an unbalance at times. After a visit, getting home, and alone, you may find your emotions well up - that’s good. Let them, you need to feel them, you need to drive your emotional car as well, that is the path to acceptance.
Fear is not an enemy, or something to be battled into submission, or faced and defeated. It is part of you. Fear needs to be understood and accepted, its grip over you loosened. Forgiveness is part of this - fear and forgiveness are closely tied. Well fear and non-forgiveness, and fearlessness and forgiveness. Just a little peek at the wonderful and joyful life that is totally within your abilities to achieve, which makes all this difficult process so very worth it. And if I may, once achieved looked back on, and wondered why one was so afraid in the first place.
(((Tad)))
DnJ
Thanks bttfrfly and DnJ.
Bttrfly, when I say over emotional, I mean seriously over emotional or hyper emotional. It's stuff that doesn't make sense. For instance:
(1) I used to love watching "Deadliest Catch" on Discovery Channel. It was my all-time favorite show. Can't watch it anymore because I "feel bad" for the crabs.
(2) The last time I was at the park, there were two men fishing and one of them had a crumpled up soda can and empty bag of potato chips sitting next to him. I shouted "Don't forget to take your litter when you leave." I would never do this before. I wasn't nasty towards them but it could have been interpreted that way.
(3) I used to be a big wildlife documentary fan. I used to love watching them all the time. Now, I have to watch them with caution because if I see animals dying or being eaten by other animals. It makes me sick....physically sick....upsets my stomach. I'm almost certain that this is not normal. Not for me anyways. I've always loved sea life and birds growing up, but never actually cared about things this way or was never bothered by things like this.
DnJ, good words. If my feelings towards innocent things are feelings that have been stirred up, shouldn't they go away eventually? I mean, is it always going to be like this? They seem to intensify over time.
It could be that not wanting a relationship is denial, but I truly don't want one. To me, a relationship just complicates things. I'm happy with the way things are. I like things to be simple.
Seeing the grand baby - I am very busy with work, but I plan to see him every other week if I can. Hopefully, every week from time to time. Just don't want to be a bother to the new mom and dad. As mentioned before, I actually have another grandson that I never see. I've never met him. S33 is "estranged" I guess and nobody on our side of the family sees him much. That could also have something to do with the way I feel towards this new baby.
I'm generally well, but have been struggling a little bit lately. I sometimes get the feeling that I'm just an after thought or second choice where my boys are concerned. I work a lot and live in a very small apartment. XW has a nice house and has time and money to do things. (Still convinced that she only married OM for money and I was no longer good enough for her.) The boys always spend holidays with her. She always goes overboard with things like that. I usually get a text or message on Facebook from them and that's usually it. Again, just feel like an after thought and probably wouldn't even be missed if I moved away. Sorry, just wanted that off my chest.
Peace.
Tad
Oh my gosh, Tad, you sound like you are carrying a heavy burden. It sounds like you are hurting so much. ((((Tad)))))
You know what? Your sensitivity about the animals is beautiful. Maybe getting nauseous is the right response.
And maybe it will pass and you will not be so sensitive. To everything, a season.
But maybe right now you are just so open to pain that everything hurts and feels personal. I cry at the slightest thing in a commercial -- and forget about it if I see someone do something really kind or really suffer on the train. I cry the whole way home. Maybe we should all be crying MORE in this world, maybe there would be less suffering if we all opened our hearts to the suffering we witness.
Now about feeling like an afterthought. I connect this to what I wrote above. But I will say one thing, as a daughter to a man who often says things like that -- those thoughts may be a lie. You may be believing a lie, a dark force in your mind, because you are sad and raw and burdened. Maybe all those people are waiting for you to love them more, to show up more, to not be busy with work, to be just really fun and full of joy when you see them, to pay for things for the grandson and to be more interested in them than in your own pain.
The pain is real. The burden is real, and I not only hear but understand you and want to give you a big hug.
But a gift you can give your kids is to put the pain in a box when you think about them or see them. Don't make a symbol out of anything they say or do. Invite them over on Christmas instead of feeling left out. And if they say no, go volunteer at a homeless shelter to cook a meal for someone else that day. Use your life, use it, you are here for a reason, and once you live that reason, you will not feel so burdened.
But while you feel burdened, remember that Gerda is sending you a big hug and understands your feelings of rejection and pain and drifting perfectly.
Thanks Gerda.
I appreciate the response and the nice words.
Really, I'm fine. Just extra sensitive to so many things these days. I've had lady friends tell me that they love the fact that I'm sensitive to things like that and am not afraid to show it. I guess it is nice, but sometimes wish that things didn't bother me so much. But...maybe you are right. Maybe the world would be a better place if more people cared.
You are also right about putting the pain in a box too. I'm sure I'd be more fun to be around. But....I thought I had been doing pretty well at this. Maybe not.
Thanks for the hugs and understanding.
Tad
Good Morning Tad
How are you? And how is the wee Grandkid?
...when I say over emotional, I mean seriously over emotional or hyper emotional. It's stuff that doesn't make sense.
It’s stuff that doesn’t make any sense. Right on the money. Emotions are irrational. Some follow rational thoughts and others do not.
Emotions come from our subconscious, well beyond the reach of the our conscious mind. We can only influence emotions, not control. Acceptance and understanding.
If my feelings towards innocent things are feelings that have been stirred up, shouldn't they go away eventually? I mean, is it always going to be like this? They seem to intensify over time.
All feelings go away, if not reinforced or fed.
Most emotions are fed subconsciously. To alter that feedback takes a concerted effort from the conscious mind, your thoughts. Or in time, as you accept whatever is “on your mind or heart”, the feeling fade. Now, fade may be a bit misnamed, we also get used to feelings so they seem to fade or lessen. The intensity of a feeling may lower and yet it becomes more deep or real - a belief.
So, is it always going to be like this? No, nothing remains static. Life is change and we are all heading somewhere. Enjoy the journey and embrace those feelings. Acceptance and understanding.
Your examples of emotional responses: feeling bad for the crabs, shouting at the fishermen to ensure they clean up, and physically sick to seeing on TV the animals getting eaten by other animals. It’s ok. Perfectly normal.
The only one of these you can directly control is you shouting at the fishermen, and that is only for a part of it. You feel something, you need not act on it, you choose to shout. I am guessing you are not wanting to become an in your face environmental activist
, so you might want to nip this one.
However something is stirring inside you. Grandkids and mid life usher in a life transition - don’t worry no where near a crisis level. Just a transition to your golden years and the life outlook that it brings. Peace or despair, better or bitter, satisfaction or regret. This will stir up a lot of irrational fears and feelings.
I want to pass on a second outlook to fear and uncoupling it. Fear is a parasite, feeding on that irrational connection. Uncouple and let it wither. You can also purposefully overfeed it.
Consider afraid of the dark. It is not the absence of photons that scares a person. Is it what might be lurking in the dark? Even though it wasn’t there before. No. It is the hurt, pain, or death that might come from something within the dark attacking you. Irrational. So one uncouples that and let’s the feeling wither.
At the same time over feed that fear of the dark.
Go out and look at the stars. Marvel at the glorious universe and creation.
Listen to the wonderful sounds and the depth they have when vision is absent.
This feeds that fear something good and enjoyable. Dark gets coupled to stargazing and enjoying nature in the wisps of silvery starlight - for example.
Hope you are doing well.
DnJ
Thanks DnJ.
Sorry for the delayed response. I've been keeping busy, seeing the grandkid when I can and working and enjoying nature when I can.
I've also been doing a lot of thinking.
I think the biggest problem I have is fear. Fear of being in a relationship, fear of losing again. I fear not being able to see my grandson. I know I can't control a lot, but people just throw relationships away these days and treat it like it's no big deal if they split. I know that I shouldn't even have those thoughts, but I do. Feel like I am "borrowing trouble" with the way I think sometimes.
I'm also tired. Tired of not being important. Maybe XW spoiled me. For 25 years, our sons and I were number one with her. People depended on me and needed me. Now, not so much. Maybe this is an "old person thing?" I'm only 51, but feel much older. As I've stated before, I feel like "second choice" a lot.
Sorry for the ramble and if this doesn't make much sense. I'm at work and wanted to check in.
Tad
Hello Tad
No worries in your response time buddy. Sounds like you were busy, in some very good ways. Grandkid, working, enjoying nature,
and thinking. Lots of thinking - I like that. Thinking is your control and leads to everything.
I know I can't control a lot, but people just throw relationships away these days and treat it like it's no big deal if they split. I know that I shouldn't even have those thoughts, but I do.
Tad, you should totally have those thoughts. I am glad to see them. That is accurate, some people do treat relationships with less importance.
Trying to not have your thoughts is fighting directly against your fears. You have to come at this sideways. Outmaneuver your fear. Be smarter than it.
And that, I’m pretty confident you can accomplish.
On a related side note. You tried to not have those thoughts. Trying predisposed us to fail. Do something, instead of try. That is why sideways, not the direct attack, works.
I think the biggest problem I have is fear. Fear of being in a relationship, fear of losing again. I fear not being able to see my grandson.
This is really good stuff. Let’s explore your fear. (I’ve hop in your intellectual car, you’re driving. Buckle up.)
Fearing a relationship: Being with someone? Caring for someone? Having someone care about you? Be dependent on you? You be dependant on them? Making concessions and compromises? Living up to a standard you don’t know you can reach? Losing - what?
Fearing losing again: Again? Losing? The person? The relationship? The companionship? The solitude? Yourself? Your comfort zone?
Fear of not seeing grandson: How? Is it their relationship breaking up? Is it XW, Grandma, getting more involved?
Feel like I am "borrowing trouble" with the way I think sometimes.
You are doing so well! Seeing so much. Yes, it “feels” like borrowing trouble. Exactly - feels. Thoughts lead to feelings, which feed those fears.
I love your sentence, that the biggest problem you have is fear. You see it as a problem, which is good - problems can be solved. And you are acknowledging the fear.
Now,
do explore those questions and the many others that will undoubtedly pop up. Follow your logical thoughts and reason; got to be in that car. What possible future events are driving this?
Loss is a theme here.
All fears come from something which we feel would hurt us - directly. Follow until you find that hurt. Fear of not seeing you grandson has deeper roots, for example.
Here’s an example from me. As I’ve said, fear is not vanquished, or defeated. It remains within, withered, like a seed. If fed again it will grow. With that in mind I’ll dig around in my bag of seeds and tell you about one.
I fear you (others) not liking what I am saying. I fear the rejection. Now stopping here doesn’t cut it, right? Rejection hurts but why?
Words of affirmation is one of, maybe my primary, love language. The opposite hurts, a lot. It also make me feel like a fraud. Attacks my beliefs, my convictions, my values. Attacks my confidence. When W (at the time) stood there in our living room and told me she is indifferent to me. Not hate - indifferent. Hate is born from the same passion as love. Hate, I could’ve use that. Hate would have been better. Indifference was crushing. Total rejection of me.
There is a root. Me irrationally worrying that someone might reject me; and me taking it far too personally.
I’ve thought that through, a lot. It’s withered and not a bother anymore. How? I can’t control anyone else. If they are going to see me as a fraud, or reject my ideas or ideals, my words, my experience, my hard fought and painfully gained wisdom - I cannot change that. Worrying to the point of paralysis is not helpful - that is fear. Accept that you have no control over what event your fear is based on. See it. Come at it sideways. Can’t fight rejection head on.
I accept that everyone has a right to their ideas and path (that absolutely includes XW). And realizing I’m not that important; not agreeing to something I say is just that - not agreeing - it’s not rejection of me.
And I could very well be in the wrong, and I accept that too, and have opened myself up a whole lot more.
So, not a big deal now - but after BD with emotions and fears and anxiety - yikes!
I'm also tired. Tired of not being important. Maybe XW spoiled me. For 25 years, our sons and I were number one with her. People depended on me and needed me. Now, not so much. Maybe this is an "old person thing?" I'm only 51, but feel much older. As I've stated before, I feel like "second choice" a lot.
I know this feeling. More accurately, I remember this feeling.
For almost 30+ years - me, and as the four kids came along, we were number one with XW. We are not even number two now. To be totally clear-viewed about this. I don’t feel like second choice from XW, I feel like I’m no choice from XW. The kids, I am becoming less and less of their provider, they are much less dependent on me - exactly what a parent should hope to happen. So yes I am second choice, to funner times, to their significant other, to jobs, to school, to friends, etc. That is great! That view took a bit to find.
I’m 51 as well, and I don’t feel old - now. I figured out a lot of stuff. You can too.
That’s more than enough about me.
I really hope you share your thoughts about those questions and your discovers. What answers, further questions, and further answers you find while digging. I really do want to walk with you through this fire and see you emerge on the other side.
And share whatever ramble you want. It makes more sense than you realize.
DnJ
Hey DnJ. Thanks for the response.
Fearing a relationship: Being with someone? Caring for someone? Having someone care about you? Be dependent on you? You be dependant on them? Making concessions and compromises? Living up to a standard you don’t know you can reach? Losing - what?
I think just fear of being hurt. All of it. I'm an animal lover, but won't even have a pet because I don't want to hurt watching it get old and eventually dying. Maybe I get too attached? A couple of years ago, I got two little rats that I didn't even really want, but fell in love with them and got super attached. It hurt like H3ll when they passed. When I was about 10, our family dog died. It was a dog that had been in the family since before I was born. I cried for days. My stepdad called me all kinds of names for being upset about it. "Be a man. She was just a dog" he would say. Obviously, my "issues" go much deeper than the garbage XW pulled.
Fear of not seeing grandson: How? Is it their relationship breaking up? Is it XW, Grandma, getting more involved?
No, but I worry about getting attached and then their relationship going sour or staying together, but moving away. Her family lives in a different state. I know that I shouldn't worry about these things, but I do.
Follow until you find that hurt. Fear of not seeing you grandson has deeper roots, for example.
Yep. I was basically raised by my grandmother for the most part. (Long story.) When I was 6, my parents took me and moved to Germany. (My stepdad was military and we moved a lot.). But....I ALWAYS wanted to be in Phoenix with my grandmother. I was closer to her than my parents, step parents, everybody. I always felt like I was "taken away" and shoved from house to house.
The kids, I am becoming less and less of their provider, they are much less dependent on me - exactly what a parent should hope to happen. So yes I am second choice, to funner times, to their significant other, to jobs, to school, to friends, etc. That is great! That view took a bit to find.
I see your point. I'm working on this.
Again, thanks for the response. I have to run for now. I'm at work and things just hit the fan. Haha!
Peace.
Tad
Tad, I am struck reading what you wrote to DnJ that your very clear and deep wound got rewounded just exactly the same way all over again.
Your parents divorced, and you found a safe loving home with your grandma. Then you have to deal with this stepdad who doesn't get how beautiful and fragile your heart is, how full of love you are, and he brutalizes that openness of your heart by telling you that a man doesn't love like that. And you get ripped away from the one who loved you as yourself, your grandma, and had to move far far away, to a culture that was very different and I rather doubt it was one that nurtured your fragile heart.
And you had to be afraid of showing your love and your hurt. And then you saw that fear played out and realized over and over again in your life, and repeated by XW.
I say this because my exact wound from childhood, and one that I saw repeated with several other R's before H, was then taken to an all new level of hurt, horror, pain, anguish, by H.
You know I am a religious lady, and it's this wound that I keep bringing to God and saying, "WHY?" Why did you give me a life as a child where I was wounded that way, and why did you keep allowing that same wound to be reopened in the same way, and now this, this horrible reopening/stabbling/salting by H in the exact same way?
There is this book by Harville Hendrix called, "How to Get the Love you Want." I loved it before I became a Christian, it explained a lot about my relationship with H, back when it was a pretty good R but still with the usual problems we all have in R's. But anyway his point is that you look for someone who will reopen your wound, just as your spouse does. And that you have this incredible opportunity, if you are on the same page, of healing each other's wound.
In our cases, it went the opposite direction, obviously.
But this brings me to what I have been hearing via prayer. In my case, what I hear is that only God can heal that wound,and I have to give it to him. I am not sure how to translate this to secular-speak, but I think I would say that it's great that you are seeing your wound, and I think you have to see it more. And then I think you have to watch "Good Will Hunting" again and keep telling yourself, "It's not your fault, it's not your fault, it's not your fault."
You have a beautiful, open, fragile, loving heart. Most women dream of finding a man with a heart like that. Don't give up on that heart, it's not your enemy. It's the best part of you and it wasn't allowed to love the way it wanted. I am not sure how you heal that without God but I know that you have to heal it and you don't have to harden it.
Thank you Gerda.
Your parents divorced, and you found a safe loving home with your grandma. Then you have to deal with this stepdad who doesn't get how beautiful and fragile your heart is, how full of love you are, and he brutalizes that openness of your heart by telling you that a man doesn't love like that.
Yes, my parents divorced when I was 4. My mom ran off with another man who later became my stepdad. It was rough at times. I was never really close to my biological dad. Living with him was never an option really until I was older. (Not sure he would have wanted it anyway because he had a brand new wife.) With my mom and stepdad, we were always moving every 2 years or so. Once my mom and stepdad were married, we moved from Arizona to California, to Germany, to California, to Arizona, to California and back to Arizona all from the ages of 4-17. My grandma was really my only rock, but only when we were in the same state. My stepdad would call me a wus, pu$$y, wimp, girl....whatever if I showed any type of emotion. He even made fun of me for being left-handed. Said I was uncoordinated. I became afraid to do anything because I lacked confidence. After all, I was uncoordinated. (My grandma was also left-handed and she was the one who taught me how to draw.) To this day, I have a confidence problem. And yes, I became afraid to show feelings. The childhood was unstable. As I've said before, my grandma and XW seemed to be the only stable things in my life....
I've actually heard of the book that you mentioned. Maybe I'll check it out.
You have a beautiful, open, fragile, loving heart. Most women dream of finding a man with a heart like that. Don't give up on that heart, it's not your enemy. It's the best part of you and it wasn't allowed to love the way it wanted.
Thank you for the very nice words. Would you believe that my XW pretty much said the same thing as she was leaving?
"You have a wonderful heart. You're one of the rare good ones and will make someone very happy someday."Her words. Apparently, it wasn't good enough for her though.
I wouldn't say that I've given up or hardened my heart, I'm just very cynical....I trust nobody these days. Seems like the only things that won't stab you in the back or let you down are animals which is why I seem to enjoy their company more than people. I've lost faith in most people.
Tad
Just coming in to vent/journal.
Seems like this is really the only place for me to get things out these days.
Some of you know that I've been taking care of a homeless kitty cat. (I named him PJ for Pepper Jack because of his love for Pepper Jack cheese.)
It took nearly a year for him to come near enough where I could pet him.
Eventually, he got to where he would trust me enough to come into my apartment. I fed him every day. In the mornings, he would stop by and he would eat real quick and be on his way. In the evenings, he would come in and hang out for an hour or two. I would pet him, brush him and wipe his leaky eyes. In recent weeks, he had put on some weight and his eyes were getting better.
On Saturday (8/17), he stopped by for his breakfast and then left. I then went to work. When I got home Saturday evening, he never stopped by. On Sunday, he didn't show up for breakfast or dinner. This morning, on the way to work, I cruised through the neighborhood to try and find him. That's when I saw his body laying in front of an alley. I'm assuming that he was hit by a car.
I don't even know what to say.....Seems like every time I get close to something...I'm just tired of getting my heart broken. He was buddy. He's been a daily visitor for about two years.
I would have kept him and let him stay, but he always wanted to go back outside. I bought a litter box for him, but he never showed any interest. Maybe I should have made him stay inside. Maybe I should have forced him to stay. Kind of blame myself.
Going to miss him.
God bless you Tad. You’ve got a heart of gold.
You did the kind and right thing with Pepper Jack. Love is letting him be free. And he always came by to be with you, so you know he felt safe with you.
I am sorry for the loss of your dear daily companion and friend.
I empathize with the heartache you feel; pets hold a special place in our lives. Remember the two years of happy visits with PJ, and that he and you formed a special bond.
(((Tad)))
DnJ
Tad,
I am so very sorry about PJ. He loved you unconditionally and he felt safe w/you and in your home. You took him in, fed him and made sure he had plenty of food and a warm place to stay for a bit. You may have helped him live a bit longer by being there for him.
Grieve the loss and one day, PJ will send another lost and hungry kitty your way.
Love and respect. That was the link between both of you.
Hugs for you
(((Tad)))
I would have kept him and let him stay, but he always wanted to go back outside. I bought a litter box for him, but he never showed any interest. Maybe I should have made him stay inside. Maybe I should have forced him to stay. Kind of blame myself.
Going to miss him.
honey, maybe you were supposed to love him and let him live his life the way he chose ??
you are a dear, sweet person with a truly loving heart. when an animal who is gun-shy trusts you it's a big freaking deal. very humbling. feel honored, because PJ did honor you.
your grief is a sign of your love. I'm sorry he's gone but I'm happy you had each other. may all the happiness you gave to each other be a comfort. xoxoxoxoxo
Thanks all.
I just hope he didn't suffer. Can't stand the thought of him being in pain.
Wish I could've been there for him. Maybe I could've got him to the vet.
I told him all the time that I had his back...told him that daily and I meant it. I really did.
I rushed home from work every day to make sure I was there to feed him because I didn't want to let him down. That was always a fear...letting him down.
I feel like I really let him down.
Good Morning Tad
I am sorry you’re feeling low and that you feel you somehow let PJ down. Grief takes time. I understand you wishing you could have been there, and done something.
Tad, you did do something. You were there to feed him and freely gave him security and love. You didn’t let him down.
An unfortunate random event happened, well beyond your control or ability to alter. You didn’t let him down
Grief takes time. Pour out whatever you need to, whatever you want to. I’m listening, and so are many other caring people.
Take care Tad.
DnJ
You couldn't be with him every minute of the day Tad. Unfortunately, this is the risk. He wanted to live a life of freedom and he loved you or he wouldn't have kept coming back to you every day. The greatest gift you gave him was letting him live as he wanted and loving him anyway.
I'm sorry buddy this is awful stuff. No words except hugs. xoxoxo
Thanks DnJ and bttrfly.
It's been a rough day, but not as bad as yesterday. Losing a "fur baby" hurts. I feel like I did when my dog died when I was 10 all over again. When my rats died in 2014, I told myself no more pets because it hurts so bad, when they pass on. I didn't want to go through that again. PJ was not planned. He just happened and this hurt a lot more than I thought it would. When I was married, we had lots of pets, but I never really got close to any of them. They all kind of "belonged" to XW. They were all pets that she wanted. At one point, we had two dogs and six cats, but they were all ones that she wanted and picked out. They were considered "hers." I also didn't care like I do now. I think the divorce really messed me up and sometimes wonder if I'll ever be normal again...but, what is normal? I do like the person that I've become, but sometimes think I care too much or am just too sensitive.
Many people at work are saying that I should go adopt a cat from a rescue. They say it will do me some good. I want to. I really do. I'd love to give a kitty a nice home and I just might. That was the original plan for PJ, but he just wouldn't use the litter box. (I still wonder if I would have been more forceful about it if he'd be alive today. I'll always wonder.) I originally wanted to wait a while to get another cat. Don't want to get one too soon and don't want one to be considered "PJ's replacement", but I might actually do it sooner than later. See, I feel like I have no reason to be home now. I would make sure to be home every night to get PJ fed, because as I stated before, I didn't want to let him down and wanted him to know that he could depend on me. Now that he is gone, I feel like I have no reason to even come home from work. I'm single, no kids at home and no reason to come home now that PJ is gone. Kind of feel like I have no purpose. But if I got a little kitty and gave it a good home, maybe I'll feel better. Is it too soon? Isn't that like jumping into a new relationship too soon after getting out of a long-term one?
One more thing. I worry about getting a new pet because, I know it is silly, but there are two things that really bother me.
1.) If I outlive the new cat, I'll grieve all over again. I'm tired of the hurt and the grief. Seems like I've grieved for one thing or another since 2009. (My brother, my marriage, my mom, my rats, my grandfather....) The pets though....sometimes, that seems tougher. I really don't want to go through this again. My ratties in 2014 and now PJ...its too much.
2.) I'm only 51, but I do have health problems. I've already had a heart attack, a couple of episodes that could have been heart attacks, and heart problems are really common in my family on my dad's side. I'm also diabetic. I'm not at death's door, but I'm not in the best of health either. What happens to the cat if something happens to me? One of my sons has already promised to take care of it, but who knows? This is the kind of twisted stuff I worry about.
I know I shouldn't go through life like this and need to change the way I think, but I can't help it. This is how I think.
Tad
Hello Tad
I think the divorce really messed me up and sometimes wonder if I'll ever be normal again...but, what is normal? I do like the person that I've become, but sometimes think I care too much or am just too sensitive.
You are kind, caring, and sensitive. Traits that at times seem far too rare in this world.
I understand your wondering about becoming normal again, or maybe it’s just accepting the new normal. Yes divorce changes us. I like the person I’ve become and I’m glad to see you do as well.
Looking at it like that, maybe “messed me up” is not really the case.
I think it is a wonderful idea to get a kitty. You are correct you are ‘t replacing PJ. Each pet has their own personality, and they don’t and can’t replace a previous pet. They bring different joy and richness to us.
How soon to consider getting a kitty? Hard to say. I believe you are ready, caring, and would love having them around. That purpose and fulfillment you spoke of. And I also do see your concern regarding being too soon and grieving.
The two specific items that really bother you, the worries and fears. They are not silly.
It is most probable that you will outlive a cat. Worrying will not prevent it. And never having a pet just robs you of that joy and the good times. Yes, hurt and pain of loss happens, it is natural. The pain is worth it, when balanced against the gains.
I am also 51. I have two dogs, one old and one young. As the old one passes, we would get another dog. In this cycle, I have buried two dogs on my property; even have their own headstones, under the shade of a dogwood tree.
When my older dog passes on, do I get another? The two keep each other company when I am at work. So yes it is a good idea. At some point I will pass. My son’s and daughter have promised to look after them, much like your son. My advice, trust your son. He knows your wishes and he will honour them. Leave it at that. Let go the worry.
I know I shouldn't go through life like this and need to change the way I think, but I can't help it. This is how I think.
This is a broad statement. Your caring, kindness, and sensitive nature - I would not change that, you should live that way. The worry and fear that drags you around, I’m sure that would be welcomed to be diminished. I do hope you see and understand that these two views need not be linked. One does not demand the other. Being sensitive does not demand worry and fear.
I think you would like to alter and change the way you think. To start, the word “can’t”. Your mind is listening to all you say - more internally than here, but still the written word usually reflects our inner self. “Can’t” is powerful and leaves no room for possibilities for change. “Can’t right now” is better and allows room to change.
“Won’t” is really the best way to think about something instead of can’t. Not in a negative manner, in the view that “I won’t do something” totally puts you in control to change it when you are ready. And that set you up for “will”. I will do that. Positive and affirming. There is no time limit, yet it is confirming and produces results. Your mind is listening; using “will do that”, yeah your mind makes that happen.
Can’t, can, will, won’t - something to think about.
My two cents, get a kitty sooner rather than later. I’m sure you
will be glad you did.
DnJ
Hey DnJ.
Yeah, I guess saying the divorce "messed me up" was not really what I meant. It did change me though. It changed me in a very big way. I'm definitely not the person I was. Not really a bad thing since I like who I am but it was a profound change....overly sensitive to so many things...animals and babies that can't speak for themselves...environmental issues...stuff like that.
I have decided to go ahead and get a kitty. (Maybe two.) I look to adopt one or two from the Arizona Humane Society. I've already talked to them and all I have to do is pick one or two that I see online and go down and pay for them and pick them up.
I hope to do it during the first week of September right after Labor Day.
I'll keep you posted.
Tad
That's a great idea Tad
I love the idea of selecting two. They could keep each other company when you are at work. You will enjoy their antics and they will love you unconditionally.
I can't wait to hear the antics and the joy that they bring into your life.
Thanks KML and Job.
Kitty cat update:
Still missing PJ.
It is getting easier though. (I still refuse to drive down the street where he got hit.)
It looks like I may be getting two kittens. Two
INSIDE kittens that will
NEVER be allowed outside. Two little guys that I can spoil rotten.
I'm not "overly religious", but I do consider myself to be a believer. I don't go to church every Sunday, but I do pray daily and read my Bible from time to time and I do try to be a decent person.
Last night, I asked God that if it was meant for me to get 2 instead of 1, to please give me a sign. I got that sign today I think.
The manager of my apartment complex told me that if I wanted to get 2 cats, she would cut the pet deposit in half and also cut the pet rent in half. So, I'd basically be getting two for the price of one.It is settled.
I'm getting two..first week of September.
Something interesting about how this whole experience changes people:
Ten years ago, I hated cats....couldn't stand them and couldn't stand to be around them.Look at me now.
What the H3ll happened to me?
Haha.
Tad
you're becoming who you always were, deep down inside, without any masks.
congrats on the new fur babies oxoxox
Two for one. I’d take that as a sign too.
I did laugh at the “look at me now / what the h3ll happened to me”.
Pretty nice change buddy.
And I like the way bttrfly said it.
The first week of September is going to be exciting. Two little guys ripping around, and Tad spoiling em rotten. Sounds great!
God works in mysterious ways. He sent PJ to you a while back and you learned to love him and look forward to his visits. PJ crossed the Rainbow Bridge and now you have an opportunity to give two little fur babies a loving home. I do believe that PJ opened the door for all of this to happen because you have opened your heart to an animal that you previously would not have ever considered adopting.
Tad, I am so very happy for you. You will enjoy those little babies and I can guarantee you that your life will never be the same because they will keep you on your toes and in stitches laughing at them and the most important thing...they will love you unconditionally just as you will love them too.
I've pretty much always had cats 2 at a time - sometimes 3. Never allowed out. My "girls" are about 7 or so now. Middle aged lady cats. They are indoor only cats and a great comfort to me on bad days. A nuisance some other days especially in the mornings when they are demanding to be fed because they are so starved that they can see part of the bottom of their bowl.
Some practical "cat dad" info. Siblings are best I've always felt. My girls are sisters and before that I had a brother/sister pair. If you have the room, get 2 litter boxes. When they are young cleaning the boxes daily is a good idea. I do mine twice a week and sometimes they can be a bit ripe in the summer.
For my litter boxes, I use clumping litter. I also take them and scrub them with dish soap and a stiff brush once a month and then spray them with an enzyme that eats the bacteria that can cause odours. It also works on any accidents they may have. One of my girls regularly pees over the edge of the box - her butt is higher than the sides.
Neutering is an absolute must. It not only eliminates the chance of extra kittens (I originally wrote unwanted) but it also calms them down and prevents spraying. I've always had the cats declawed. A lot of vets refuse to do this now and TBH I agree with them. It does mean a certain amount of random destruction and planning on what they are allowed to claw and helping teach them what is OK and what isn't.
I only feed my girls Purina Indoor cat food split between a morning and evening feeding. The crunchy kibbles help keep their teeth clean. They love getting brushed and a good brush is handy. Kittens may resist being brushed or be too "busy" having fun to sit still but eventually it will be something everyone will enjoy.
If you take a trip, they will be fine on their own for a few days. Just make sure they have lots of water and a full food bowl. My daughter has left her two alone for up to 3 or 4 days at a time.
Good luck Tad - and I'm happy to hear that you are adding some fur buddies to your life. They will add much joy, some laughter to your world.
Bttrfly, DnJ, Job and AndrewP.
Thank you all very much for the nice words and tips.
Andrew, I will get two, but not sure if I'll be able to get siblings since I will be adopting them from the Humane Society. I will check it out though. As for declawing. I will not be doing that. Just don't believe in it. I'm okay with the random destruction. Haha. They will also be spayed/neutered when I adopt them so we're good there.
I'm anxious and a little nervous too. Hope that I will be able to take care of them and be a good cat dad. This will be a new adventure for me.
Tad
I'm anxious and a little nervous too. Hope that I will be able to take care of them and be a good cat dad. This will be a new adventure for me.
This is a fantastic outlook and attitude.
Andrew has given some very good advice on the care of the kittens. He’s quite the experienced cat dad, and you’ll be a pro in no time.
Also, get a scratching post. This will help keep their front claws trimmed. I have two of them and "Bear" uses it all of the time. Don't have any issues w/him clawing the furniture. I just need to teach him how to turn off the bathroom light once he's turned it on and left the room.
Thanks DnJ and Job.
Just hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew. Hope it is the right decision. (Just a little doubt setting in.)
Going to spend the next week kitty cat proofing my apartment.
Tad
Just journaling.
I've spent the last week or so getting ready for my new fur babies. I'm adopting two kittens from the Arizona Humane Society on Tuesday. I'm a little nervous about it, but excited too. I've never had two cats of my own before...I've never even liked cats until the "new" me came around after the divorce. I hope I can be a wonderful daddy to them.
It's been a couple of weird days. The other night while I was going through some things in my apartment to get ready for the kittens, I found a few emails that I kept from XW that were written around the time she left. Boy, I had forgotten how mean she was towards me...I mean REALLY FREAKING mean. I had forgotten some of it and was just dumbfounded by not just her anger, but her coldness. So very cold. Or, maybe I'm just seeing it with new eyes now that I've changed and so much time has gone by? It's hard to imagine that someone who said all those terrible things and treated me the way she did, someone who was so cold actually loved me at one point. What happened?
Anyways, I threw them out. Don't want to read them again and wish I hadn't found them.
Still kind of hurts though.
Even after all this time.
Wish I knew what happened to the wonderful girl I fell in love with. I can still look back at the times we had early in our marriage or when we were dating. Seems like a lifetime ago. The memories are there, but they are starting to fade I'm afraid.
Also, today would have been our 34th wedding anniversary. THIRTY FOUR YEARS. It's funny, if she hadn't jumped on the crazy train, I'd still be there.
Enough for now.
Tad
Hello Tad
I was wondering how getting the apartment kitten ready was going. Sounds like it’s all set. Tuesday’s going to exciting!
Feeling for you buddy. I’m glad you threw out the old emails, you’re right - you don’t need those around.
With today being what would have been 34 years, it is understandable you are reminiscing. A stroll down memory lane to dates and early years. A nice visit, keep it short, you don’t want to turn a wee stroll into a huge hike.
I’m looking forward to hearing about your kittens. Do you have names in mind? Or going to see if something “fits” them?
Take care Tad
DnJ
It's been a couple of weird days. The other night while I was going through some things in my apartment to get ready for the kittens, I found a few emails that I kept from XW that were written around the time she left. Boy, I had forgotten how mean she was towards me...I mean REALLY FREAKING mean. I had forgotten some of it and was just dumbfounded by not just her anger, but her coldness. So very cold. Or, maybe I'm just seeing it with new eyes now that I've changed and so much time has gone by? It's hard to imagine that someone who said all those terrible things and treated me the way she did, someone who was so cold actually loved me at one point. What happened?
oh, boy can I relate. I ask that question about my exh too.
Anyways, I threw them out. Don't want to read them again and wish I hadn't found them.
Still kind of hurts though.
Even after all this time.
Wish I knew what happened to the wonderful girl I fell in love with. I can still look back at the times we had early in our marriage or when we were dating. Seems like a lifetime ago. The memories are there, but they are starting to fade I'm afraid.
yes. yes. yes. and boy do I wish I knew what happened to the guy I married. I miss him. He's vastly different from the guy who divorced me.
Also, today would have been our 34th wedding anniversary. THIRTY FOUR YEARS. It's funny, if she hadn't jumped on the crazy train, I'd still be there.
{{{{{{{Tad}}}}}}}
yeah, i'd still be there too. miserable, but hanging on. our 25th wedding anniversary was in July and the 30th anniversary of our first date in June. We were a couple who still celebrated our first date. When I think about it ... well, it's better not to do that.
p.s. you're going to be a wonderful furbaby daddy
Tad,
You are going to be the best fur daddy! You will love those little babies and they will provide you with lots of joy and company. One thing, if you have windows in your apartment that you can open, open them from the top. Those little kitties can squeeze themselves in spots that you never could imagine. Watch the wires on your lamps and computer, etc. They may think that they are toys...but if you have some little toys for them, they should keep them busy in their new forever home.
Can't wait to see photos and what you have decided to name them.
Thanks DnJ, Bttrfly and Job.
I've been really down the last few days. Hope it's just the time of year. This is usually a bad time of year for me.
Bttrfly, yeah, best not to think about it.
As for the kitties, my friend told me the other day that I need them as much as they need me. I think she might be right. I'm really missing PJ and actually caught myself the other night looking for him on my patio.
Tuesday is adoption day.
DnJ, no names yet. I'm going to get to know them first.
Job, I've already got a lot of toys for them. Still wonder if I'm doing the right thing though.
For those who don't know, I'm a wildlife fanatic and a HUGE Bald Eagle fan. There is a Bald Eagle family that I watch via live webcam in Northeast Florida. Sooooo worried about them with the hurricane. They are near Jacksonville. They are smart and know to get out of the way of the hurricane, but I worry about their tree. A few years ago, trees next to their's were snapped. I just worry about them and all of the wildlife. Seems like if it's not wildfires, it's storms....
Sorry for the rant.
Oh. And "the best" cat toy is a plan everyday cardboard box.
I agree w/the cardboard box. They also like paper bags.
And they love a giant screen plasma TV at least 65 inch. Also a Play Station 4, a 7.1 surround sound system, a VR system, and ... hold on ... nope ... that’s us dudes play stuff ... not the cats.
You know what - you get all that stuff and give the cats the boxes. That’ll work.
DnJ
Hi Tad
Did you get the kittens?
DnJ
Yes, what about the kittens! Two kittens, so much fun! I have a rescued mother/son combination...
Hi everyone.
Yes, I did get the kittens. They are wonderful. Two little 10 week old females from the same litter. One is all black and the other is calico. They have already added some fun and love to the apartment. Woke up this morning and they were both cuddled up right next to me. They don't like some of the noises in the apartment, but overall, they had a very good first night. Both ate some food and have used the litter box.
They are going to keep me busy and entertained. Feel like I may have a purpose again. It was seeming bleak for a while.
Don't have much time right now, but will come back and fill everyone in.
Oh, and I kept PJ's initials. I named the black one "Piper" and the calico "Jazz."
Tad
"PJ" I love it. What a lovely tribute.
Tad,
It's time for a new thread.
PJ came into your life to show you that you can adjust and love cats. PJ will live on in your heart and I do believe he opened the door for those two adorable kitties to have a nice, loving home. Enjoy them for they will love you unconditionally.
Thanks Job.
I've started a new thread titled "Just What I Needed".
Tad.
New Thread:
Just What I Needed