Divorcebusting.com
Last thread -- http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2839892#Post2839892

And now, from http://hca.gilead.org.il/snow_que.html#7

Little Kay was quite blue with cold, indeed almost black, but he did not feel it; for the Snow Queen had kissed away the icy shiverings, and his heart was already a lump of ice. He dragged some sharp, flat pieces of ice to and fro, and placed them together in all kinds of positions, as if he wished to make something out of them; just as we try to form various figures with little tablets of wood which we call “a Chinese puzzle.” Kay’s fingers were very artistic; it was the icy game of reason at which he played, and in his eyes the figures were very remarkable, and of the highest importance; this opinion was owing to the piece of glass still sticking in his eye. He composed many complete figures, forming different words, but there was one word he never could manage to form, although he wished it very much. It was the word “Eternity.” The Snow Queen had said to him, “When you can find out this, you shall be your own master, and I will give you the whole world and a new pair of skates.” But he could not accomplish it.

I always look in this story for something close to what I am facing on my journey, and I had forgotten this part of the story in detail. I am somewhat in shock at how perfectly this paragraph captures what I face now, as my H plays the icy game of reason via custody and divorce, very artistic, and believing it to be of the highest importance, but always the word eternity is beyond his reach.
Originally Posted by job


Gerda, I wish that I could sit down and talk to you about your situation. I'm sure that there is much more going on than what you share here that could help me help you.


Job, of all the things you have said to me over the years, this one made me feel the strongest, gave me the most courage and hope. It's hard to explain why, but in this post I feel that you have faith in me, and that you understand me and all the complexity of my heart. And oh, lord, yes, I would love to have you sit down right here at the table and talk. You know where I am if ever you are there!

Originally Posted by job
You are allowing his threats to create so much turmoil within you. When you let go and call him on his so called threats, they tend to back down. We all know that he really doesn't want to take care of the children. That is called responsibility and he has already indicated he can't deal w/it even for a few hours, but he knows that this is your "toy" from the sandbox and he's trying to take it away from you. When you give it to him, sure he'll want to play full time daddy for a while, but then he'll lose interest in the tug of war and let things be.

I didn't mention divorce in my postings to you. I addressed the issue of custody only and what you might want to try to ease the path of communication w/your children if it comes to point of not being able to communicate w/them. I don't advocate divorce unless it is absolutely necessary.


And this part made what you are saying click for me. I didn't understand it before. I thought you meant that I was being stubborn about the truth, that I was afraid of facing the reality of divorce and that I should just accept it and move on. Seeing what you wrote about not advocating divorce was such a relief to me. I am so happy that you feel that way. So what you meant, I think, is that I have nothing to fear because these custody things on paper will not come to pass, he is incapable of doing any of them, so I need not fear them. And if he does do them within MLC and it hurts the kids, I can go back to court to fight for them, so I don't have to be afraid of that either. And if he does do them but comes out of MLC and becomes a good father again, I have nothing to fear because then it will be good for the kids to be with him.

I think also in reading your post, which I did right before going to church, and then I was walking in the cold night air and trying to think of what you said about how I must have many things going on that I am not writing about, which is very true, and to make sense of what you said, and I realized something about my fear or why I must appear to be stubborn. It is because I am afraid of all the implications of the custody discussion because they formalize the destruction of our family. I am afraid to say, yes, you get Christmas, and I get Thanksgiving, because I want nothing to do with that lifestyle or that vision of my future.

And I don't know if I will ever be able to see these things are separate boxes. I am glad I still see these things as inextricably tied together and that my heart keeps fighting the banalization of family life into this King Solomon baby-splitting efficiency.

But now because of what you said, I am able to see that you are not encouraging me to agree with any of it, only to get through it and come out the other side, and that you are giving me permission to keep believing that the other side is never a done deal, it could be that the other side will one day include restoration.

I don't even know if what I am posting makes any sense. But I think even if I am writing about it incomprehensibly, I do understand what you mean, and it even echoes the Mass readings tonight, but now it's almost 2 am and time to stop writing even to make it all more comprehensible.

Thank you so much, Job, thank you!!!!
A family cannot be divided
Into neat and agreeable pieces
It breaks apart, it shatters like our hearts
And what was, what we remember ceases

This path we did not choose is not the end
Though it fills you with deep and utter dread
We follow our beliefs and not feelings
There is a resurrection of the dead
Gordie, this little verse is packed with wisdom. You have a gift for validating what we feel and then for pointing to the hope we forgot.

I will be praying extra hard for you and your W the next 40 days. That resurrection you mention in your poem is coming towards us, in whatever way God intends for our lives. You are walking a path of light, and I imagine God watching all your questions and confusion with the same love and even happiness as we have when we watch our kids figuring out anything from walking to friendships to cooking dinner for the first time. (Still waiting on that one, though my D did once make us all ham sandwiches for breakfast.)

I haven't been posting much though I have been the same struggling Gerda. I caught my H in a lie this weekend and I am starting to wonder if he is spending his weekends with a woman, and not working on some renovation project at that friend's house "to pay a debt" -- the godfather of my kids, paying him back for paying for his D lawyer. It's weird how the woman seems so much worse, but really in the end, it doesn't matter. It's all part of the trouble with standing -- it HURTS. Thinking of how I felt when I first knew about the A, year two or three of this mess, and how I feel now upon rediscovery, at least I can see that I am not the same totally unequipped Gerda. Before I would collapse for days and smoke a pack of cigarettes. Now I just post to Gordie and go to work. : )
Originally Posted by Gerda
It's all part of the trouble with standing -- it HURTS. Thinking of how I felt when I first knew about the A, year two or three of this mess, and how I feel now upon rediscovery, at least I can see that I am not the same totally unequipped Gerda. Before I would collapse for days and smoke a pack of cigarettes. Now I just post to Gordie and go to work. : )


Standing is by far the most difficult thing I have ever, ever done. And yes, Gerda, it does hurt. Badly. A friend gave me a small devotional at Christmas about "pruning the vine", that in order for us to flourish, God prunes us, sometimes way, way back. But, it's necessary for us to flourish. I think that because we can handle the setback and hurt by getting on with our life, working, friends, family, etc., means that our growth is starting up again, and we are on our way to flourish.

The pruning hurts, a lot. I can hardly wait for the time to arrive where I'm flourishing. In God's own time. It will be worth it all in the end, I'm sure.


I will be thinking about you during this Lenten season, and will be faithful in my prayers. Blessings to you.
Hello Gerda

On the eve of Lent, preparing for 40 days of abstinence, one’s mind wanders and reflects on that which is to be given up. Akin to a goodbye as one starts an emotional fasting which brings one closer to God.

My own reflection are of you and our friendship. We seldom realize the impact our lives have on others. From a small smile that brightens someone’s day, to a caring friend that stands with you during the most difficult of times.

Your interactions and friendship, made me a better person.

May your act of lent bring you closer to God and the peace you so richly deserve.

(((Gerda)))

Goodbye

Love,
DnJ
Oh my gosh before I post goodbyes a bit later, the strangest thing just happened!

My H was asleep as usual on the couch, a bottle of wine in, and I had to creep into the living room to go to the kitchen for something. As I passed him, he reached out and grabbed my arm and pulled me towards him. I haven't felt his hand on my arm in five years, so I was totally shocked. I sort of let him pull me towards him and he half sat up, he was smiling at me as if he was the old H. I was terrified that he thought I was either my daughter or the OW (if there is one right now) so I was slightly resisting and I said, "Do you know it's me?" And he looked at me, totally confused, so I said again, "Do you know that it's me?" And I was so terrified that he thought I was someone else that I was just frozen and we were looking at each other in the strangest way and he let go and lay back down and I kept standing there for a second as I wanted him to pull me back again if he did know it was me but was horrified and terrified of rejection if he was dreaming of OW and would wake up as I got closer and push me away. I know in hindsight i should have just let it happen either way but I was so surprised that I wasn't thinking clearly. And he looked so bewildered that I said something along the lines of, "You were just pulling me towards you, did you mean to do that?"

Total buzz kill, yes.

And he said, "I was sleeping." And turned his back on me.

My H has not really touched me in over five years, except for one kiss a couple years ago and a few times when he let me give him a foot rub or that sort of thing when he seemed on his way back.

Well, a note to all out there -- if this ever happens to you, just go for it without worrying! I am in a sea of regret right now.
Thank you for the friendship, Grace! I agree with your friend, the vine, the pruning. Also the one about the God refining us in the fire, and how the metalsmith knows the metal is ready when He can see himself in it....

Your stand is very new, Grace -- mine started five years before yours! I know how much it hurts in these early days, more even than it does hurt me now. I used to sit on the stoop smoking cigarettes and crying. When I think of how God built me up over these years, wow. You will become so much stronger, you will be amazed!

I will think of you when I do the rest of the novena and check back in after Easter.

XO
Originally Posted by DnJ
My own reflection are of you and our friendship. We seldom realize the impact our lives have on others. From a small smile that brightens someone’s day, to a caring friend that stands with you during the most difficult of times.

Your interactions and friendship, made me a better person.


I can hardly believe that you could have been made better than you were when I came on the scene. But thank you for this incredibly wonderful message. Your messages have brought me strength, hope, wisdom, kick-in-the-arse, a laugh, a guffaw, a hug, poems, trees in the wilderness, more hope, renewal, unbelievable crossing the borders of DB to IRL with letters to my son (wow, that was incredible), visions of your fruitful life and hope for all that a man could be as a father and provider, and snow and ice and capes flying across darkened lands and a hero coming with light, another kick in the fanny, a new electric baseboard heater, a Valentine, a way to fix the washer, a way to accept that the washer would leak back to hope and light and various revelations.

It's gonna be lonely without you! But that's the point. Gerda has to listen to the silence and face the stillness.

Thank you for ALL OF IT.
Remember that you are dust

But your life is not a bust

In this valley of tears

And too many fears

Fast and pray

Cry and sway

Kiss the tree

Drink of me
Hello Gerda,

Something I have been wondering about but never took the time to ask you, but why do you use the adjective "little" before Gerda in your thread titles? From a neutral reader, me, that seems like you are putting yourself down. The same thread title without this word comes across much more positively. I am just curious.

As for your recent couch encounter, don't beat yourself up about how you reacted and what you said/asked. I understand that it would probably have been nice to have something happen but maybe best that nothing did, without you being sure it was "real" and/or for you. If it was for you, another occasion will come. If not take back out the patience shovel job gives us all at the beginning of our journey. Either way don't dwell on it and don't remind H of it unless he brings it up.

Sorry I have missed where you explained you saying goodbye. Sometimes it is helpful to take a step back from here. This place although a huge support network, does keep us focused on the the pain of our M and that of others. Make the most of your time away. Best wishes
roist,

Gerda is just taking a little break, i.e., giving up posting on the forum for Lent. She'll be back around Easter. However, people can continue to post to provide her the support she needs and she will be so surprised to see that we are still posting even though she's taken a break for just a wee bit of time.
Hello Gerda

Strange to write to you when I fully expect you not to read this for at least another thirty days.

So to future Gerda. I had figured I would post around half away through lent, however one quarter seems ok too. I suspect the first ten days were more difficult than the last thirty.

I have confidence in your strength of faith, will, and determination. Although I do wonder a bit about all you are releasing for lent, I do believe in your ability and desire to see it through.

Know you were thought of during this break.

Keep walking in the light.

DnJ
Hello Gerda. I will chime in with DnJ, and let you know I am certainly thinking about you every time I pray my Trust Novena, and then some. Hope your Lenten journey delivers you to a place of renewal, with clear thinking and peace.
Hi Gerda

Best wishes for the rest of lent. Hope you come back refreshed and in good form.
Hello, Everyone -- I had a very intense Lent, and the intensity continues. I am deep on my path looking for God and asking Him to find me. I lurked once in a while and it was like looking through a tunnel back at a past self, it was strange, but I guess it is a detachment from the boards. DnJ, I saw your threads and you probably know what my reaction to that was so I won't say here but I am thinking of you and praying for you. Andrew, you wrote something to DnJ that was amazing, it was one time I felt like we had a similar outlook and your words helped me in my own journey. Roist, SBJ, Sjohn and Grace -- Love to you all. And Job, my DB mom, I think of you often and often repeated your words to myself these last 46 days. You are still a light to me.

Gordie, I think of you so much. I am praying for you and hope that you are staying away for the best of reasons.

I have a new lawyer, had to fire my other one and battle her until she gave most of my retainer back. She tried to keep most of it. I dug my teeth in and wouldn't let go and she got scared and gave it back, I hired a lawyer I liked from my other court case, but I was scared of him before because he didn't understand that I was standing for my marriage. Now things have gotten so awful that I realized I need someone a bit more cutthroat -- and a man to fight those vicious men -- so I think it will be better and maybe even get settled one of these days. Things with my H have reached a fever pitch of horrible, he NEVER leaves the house anymore, is always on that couch reading, spending time with D in this very cloying way, and sent my S the most disturbing text ever (including the line, "I am utterly in love with you") I had no temptation to post during Lent except once -- the morning of my last court date, when my H just hung out at home all day, right to the last minute when we both had to leave for court. I mostly don't speak to him but sometimes I am kind, esp in front of my D, as they have been getting very close, at least in the weird way you can get close to a crazy person. He is clearly deeply confused. Does not want to leave clearly but always says he does, often it is clear that he has been crying and sometimes speaks to me as if he wants to hang out a little, but whenever I have opened the door even a crack, he monsters, viciously, horribly, tries to break me. Sometimes succeeds. But I am so close to God now, it is always clear to me that I have to go to Him, there is no other way to heal the wound. H says he won't leave until he gets all of his money. But my new lawyer assures me that he has to leave, and soon, and will file a motion if he can't negotiate a first payout to get him to go. My goal is to get him out, and then buy as much time as I can to negotiate the actual division of assets. I have gotten my confidence back, and I am trying to make various wheels and deals to be able to keep my business and cut all financial ties to H.

I spend a lot of time on my knees in church and pray a lot to Saint Rita --the prayer I use starts, "I have recourse to you since I am engulfed by a trial." I always start to cry when I say those words, but in a good way, like crying on her shoulder. I don't know what will happen but I will say I feel a lot closer to God, have cut out a lot of distractions, have gotten really into music again and even work on my writing sometime even though I work so much I truly don't have time. My son has totally regressed into the way he was last year, so that is my worst cross, but I am trying to just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

I don't know what will happen to me if my H sees this D to its end. But I think that nothing has changed for me. I see that God is with me in this furnace, and he invites me not to change my stand. And He knows of my temptations and that I am relying on Him to forgive me when I need it, and to remove things from my life that He does not want.

I want my H out and I want him to go far far away. But I don't see myself dating or ending my stand. I still consider any of those temptations as adulterous and they are to me a dark side of myself that I would not bring into my kids' lives. I am not judging anyone here, please do not flame! I am just explaining what I have learned during this intense time I have been spending with God. I realize who I am, the ugliness and the good, and I am just showing myself to God as myself, even the parts I am ashamed of.

Sending love to all. I will try to stay away from the boards, I need to rely on God only, but I think of you all and pray for you and I will keep checking on you.
Garda, this is for you - it is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not (lamentation 3:22)
Gerda,

I am glad you returned to post an update. I am very relieved/happy that you fired your lawyer and got another one. He may be the one to get your h out of the house in the very near future. He sounds like he is a man who will do whatever it takes to protect his client's well being.

I am so sorry to read that your son has regressed. Hopefully, your situation will turn a corner and your son can recover the ground he has lost due to the stress/tension of what is happening in your home.

The unusual bond that your h has w/your daughter is a bit strange, but they do tend to "lock on" to one child and treat them as best buds. His comment to her worries me just a wee bit. Hopefully it was his way of saying that he loves his daughter and nothing more.

I am keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers. Stay strong and try to remain positive.
Good Morning Gerda

Wow. You sound great!

Confident and assured. Proud of you!

Things with H do sound very strained and horrible. His confusion is plain to see in his actions, words, and writings.

I believe you have made a great choice in replacing your lawyer. It sounds like you have much more respect for his abilities to get the job done. Your plan on getting H out, negotiating division of assets, keeping your business, and such - awesome! You sound well grounded.

It is nice to see you “really” got back into music again. Coincidentally I did the same. Singing in the car again, playing the piano, even bringing out the accordion, and going over to the personal care home to play for Dad and the other residents.

I have my passions back. I have my freedom. I will not let anyone rob me of those again (well hopefully). smile It turns out the person who stole my passions - was me.

Dating. I understand your view. No flaming from me.

I am rather humbled as of late. Good thing too, I was dipping into the sin of pride. God is where power and wisdom comes from, not me. I needed a little readjustment. smile

I am glad you are following along, and completely understand your need to stay away.

DnJ
Gerda - I have thought about you often during Lent, and pray for you. Switching gears with your new lawyer will hopefully move things forward for you. It sounds like it might be time. I perfectly understand your comments on dating, and you will get no flaming from me. Living your life as God guides you will ultimately bring you peace. The journey is long sometimes, and as you know in God's time, but He is there for you every step of the way. We are too should you ever need us.

Hugs.

Grace
Gerda- I think it was very wise of you to secure a more aggressive lawyer. I went the same route and it gave me the peace of mind that I had some relentless fighting for me.

I am sorry to hear about your son. But it is to be expected given that changes do impact their lives.

We all need to remember that we cannot control the actions of other people. We can’t stop certain things from happening but we can choose how we respond.

You will get through this. Take it moment by moment.
I am praying for you too.

I know you are in a dark place but you are not letting the darkness overwhelm you.

Yes, let Saint Rita be your companion.

Happy Easter.
Gerda - just stopping by to let you know I'm thinking about you, and praying for peaceful days. Hugs
Hi, Roist -- Thanks for sticking up for me with the "little" -- but in fact it is a point of pride for me, it is the character I see myself as in the story I love, from which I got my screen name. If you click on the link at the start of each of my thread, you will see which part of the story I am using each time.

Also I am a pretty tiny little lady physically. People are always surprised when I mention my actual height because I appear to be taller -- big personality. And I like to wear shoes that give a little lift. : )
Babe, I printed this out that first time I read it and have kept it in my little pile of scriptures I go to when I need to refocus. I was so happy you stopped by my thread, and loved what you sent.
DnJ -- humbled? I wonder what this is about; will you say? Well, people keep telling you you are wise, so it can go to your head. But maybe that's not what you mean. I feel like such a worm most of the time, I think I stay pretty humble but I am also very confident and have a big personality, so out in the world I think I am seen as arrogant at times. None of those people see my on the floor of the church, humble pie.

Have been reading up on your thread, your fun parties, your wonderful kids, W. I always have this image of her in my mind as this razor-thin reed of a lost looking woman running past, biking past, lost, eyes darting about. I have this mix of feelings when I get that image, of being really mad at her and wanting to yell at her to wake up before it's too late, and wanting to just make her a really soft bed and bring her some soup and tell her to lay down and heal.
Thanks, HaWho. I know our stories have a lot in common, and I really appreciate your stopping by here and encouraging me.

In this case, my new lawyer is definitely more aggressive but also I think the issue was that my other lawyer was completely and totally shafting me. She was going through a troubling divorce herself and I think she just totally abandoned me. I thought it was normal how long it was taking, but now that I have a real lawyer, I realize I was totally shafted. For more on that, though, see what I am about to post from my H.
Gordie, stop by anytime. I feel such a lift when I read your words and know that you are praying for me! You and your W are always in my prayers. Don't forget that God loves to do His work most when it seems totally impossible. Keep believing that he can reach your W!
Grace, thank you! I have been stopping by your thread as well and you are always in my prayers. I think it's great that you are training yourself not to rush God. I think you are still hoping to solve this or fix this or know the answer. It's so hard not to do that, believe me, I do it too. It's only recently, when things have become so horrifyingly impossible and awful through this divorce court nightmare, that I have come to understand that only God can fix this, if that's His will, and that I truly have to let go. It has been freeing in some ways, even though my circumstances are perhaps worse than ever. Love to you, my friend!
Well I would like to post about a couple of incredible things God did for me yesterday at divorce court but I don't really have time to write about that so I will just post a darker thing. My H was in a fury yesterday at court because of the back and forth and my L being late. It took forever to draft the custody thing in the hallway, etc. So he wrote me a text afterwards that said -- "It's fun to pay lawyers $2000 today to do nothing -- both inept retards. Please stop wasting time and money. It's wounding." I thought this was pretty funny considering that I have tried many times to get him to stop using lawyers and not force court on me. Also because he is unable to see how hurt/wounded I am this entire time of MLC, it's as if I am not a person at all.

But I have really stopped talking to him at all, and tonight for the first time I actually did not answer him when he spoke to me, and he got really enraged. He was pretty drunk and offered me wine in this really aggressive way, and especially aggressive as he knows I don't really drink. And then started going off on our lawyers, who are both Jewish, referring to that and to my aligning myself with them, I guess insinuating that because I was Jewish before I was uniting myself with them. I was almost laughing to myself about it, not only because it's so absurd in general or because I don't want any of this and even tried to be pro se, but also because his lawyer is such a complete and total a-hole and vicious nasty man, I can't even look at him without wretching. I would rather align myself with a greasy rat from the subway than even share the same hallway with that man. He is quite a large man also, and I call him "Jabba the Hutt" to my friends. But I got a bit nervous as H got so enraged and wouldn't stop even though I wouldn't answer, I was trying to do the dishes but had to leave the room as I was getting really anxious about it and a little fearful. So I stayed up in my room, got my daughter to bed, and then got the e-mail below, which was to me and to both of our lawyers.

Just as background I will say that my first lawyer really was doing absolutely nothing all this time. But we started in October, so it hasn't been a year. And my new L has only been on the case for two weeks and already got a custody agreement signed. He is next going to push for a settlement to get him out; and if he can't, he will file a motion to get him out. His L meanwhile subpoenaed all our credit card companies, etc., to get the records, because my H has convinced him that I am hiding something and will not listen when I say that he is a joint account holder on everything and can get any record he wants, anytime. His L, in other words, is siphoning all that he can, and all paid for as a loan from my kids' godfather, against H's share in our house, I guess.

So what I mean is that everything he writes below is a total projection. You all know me a little bit, and you know that I am just trying to keep walking in the light, to stay true to my vows despite what he is doing, to try to accept what I can't change. I don't fight, I don't ask him for anything, I just try to protect my kids. So it's so weird -- even the "narcotic" thing below, when I am the most sober lady around, and he is drunk on wine and sleeping pills every night! And I think he actually thinks that he can on his own, without a trial, convince the judge of something about me that will make her "decide" about something, I am not sure what, but I guess to get him his money.

Hey, all— let’s sign, and stop granulating and dickering to subatomic levels — levels that make lawyers a lot of money, levels that don’t matter — so we can pretend that it’s not (Gerda's?) a dupe show, and so we can pretend that we actually got one thing done (custody) in a whole year, and move on.

Do you all realize that a year has passed and not one single thing has been accomplished?

The court knows it. I like the court. I want to go back into the court to let the court decide. Firmly.

It’s Gerda’s narcotic dream come true... dragging nothing into oblivion. And Gerda’s narcotic dream is the dream come true of lawyers. Let’s get out of dupe dreams —a mirage-ethos of litigious dickering — and into reality, please, I beg you all to wake up and actually do something.

Please get one thing and then another thing accomplished. We have not even in a year got one thing behind us, and the invoices keep coming.

- H
Hello Gerda

Humbled. Sure I’ll tell you.

I am very good at my job, highly skilled, have good kids, a good life, reasonable intelligent, a good financial outlook, logical, stable emotions, strong beliefs, and just happy. I’ve been focusing on me, working on my abilities, confidence, healing, etc... I fell into pride a bit.

Of course it is good to have pride in one’s kids, family, etc... and one’s accomplishments. However, my focus was blurring the truth, I started to feel pride for more than my fair share of accomplishments in my life.

I have been very lucky and blessed! This is without doubt. I’ve had an army of people helping me through this mess (especially here), and throughout my life. Yes, I do acknowledge I’ve lived a good life and made many friends, all of whom have stepped up and supported me; perhaps karma does balance out.

At any rate, fate, karma, inspiration, the universe, God - all things overall are very blessed. Truly! Much more than I can take credit for.

It wasn’t so much as it was going to my head, although there was some of that. It was more I wasn’t acknowledging the intercession of the good and powerful external forces that have lead, inspired, and guided me.

I am a pretty stubborn strong willed and faithful guy; it is sometimes hard to realize where I and my influence actually ends. And just how far it sometimes extends.

Do you recall my story of me begging God to forgive W? And of me giving myself and asking Him to transform me to whoever I am supposed to be?

I look where I am. Forgiveness, compassion, happiness - the list is long. Did I do all this? Did my “giving myself” set me up to succeed? Or did He really help me? Or both? Hmmm. Pride.

I worked hard, and I had a huge amount of help. I am going to remain humble as to my involvement - it was, and still is, a joint effort.

DnJ
Gerda, I am going to say it again. You sound fantastic. Really strong, assured, and grounded.

H on the other hand sounds... well... ludicrous, like H. Man that guy is something else.

I am very proud of you dear girl. “Little” Gerda my butt - you’re a strong gal! You’ve got detachment dialled in, and it even appears that indifference is settling in nicely. You see with accuracy and clarity; and can still maintain your compassion.

How are son and daughter? Behaving ok? What are their feelings and views on things? Are they getting along with Dad?

I understand the unwanted path you are force to travel. In my opinion you are walking it well and in the light. (((Gerda)))

DnJ
I kept reading over what you said about me seeming stronger and more detached. It's funny how that all works. I must've been a mess before as I don't feel that different. But it might also be that things here at home are so dark, so hellish, so unbearably bad, that there is no way for Gerda to waffle or hope. I still hope that there is an end to MLC -- and that, if there is, God restores my love for my H -- but this alien who lives in my house has got to go, there is no way to escape that truth. I think it's just very clear beyond doubt now that there is nothing I can do and that God will have to do it all, if anything is to be done. And it's very clear that I have to protect myself, because it's not just crazy MLCer at home, this stuff is playing out in the real world in court. So I don't know if I changed or the circumstances were such that I had to take a new kind of action. But I did restore certain things about myself via Lent, I am going straight to God more now. And that includes going to Him as I am, which is not necessarily who I wish I was.
About this pride thing -- I think I understand. You mean that you were taking all the credit.

It's interesting because your outlook on "moving on" has changed. I think that my outlook on that is part of why I know myself to be powerless without God, since my will is very different from what I want God to make me.

You mentioned also returning to music -- Music has been saving me but is also a bit of a problem for me. It has become such an escape to put on my headphones and block everything out that I find it to be a huge distraction from work and often riles me up so much emotionally that I end up teetering on a new edge.
Hi Gerda

Originally Posted by Gerda
It's interesting because your outlook on "moving on" has changed.

Yeah. It has changed, I think.

Moving forward vs moving on. Not sure which one it is.

Divorce did have an affect on my perception. An affect that has been in the works for some time. I have let XW go into the pool of possible future people I might date. Strange idea, considering she was, until divorced, the only one I would have dated.

This doesn’t, and hasn’t, lead me to any dating adventures. I am still living my life, just with a little different outlook. I am not looking for, or asking anyone (yet), kind of getting used to this view. However, like I said before, if the universe placed someone in my path, I am going to try to listen. Ha ha. Now that is setting me up to fail isn’t it. Ok! I will listen!

I am happy and comfortable with my choice. If / when I have an actual date, I am pretty sure “moving on” vs “moving forward” will snap into clarity.

I’ve seen something beyond limbo for months now; interesting moving towards it.

DnJ
I understand. I guess what I mean is that am not even sure I have remained faithful, if it's about thoughts and temptations. I just can't imagine legitimizing that or meeting someone to share a life with. I even sometimes think, well, it would be good for my kids to live with a kind and good man and to see me treated with love and kindness. I've even been encouraged to seek annulment by priests I deeply respect. But then I think of the legalism of it all, of how my H's choice can't change my vision of what M is. i think, well, yes, a terrible thing happened, my H went insane, the life I wanted is not going to be the life I live, and I have a very heavy cross the carry. He may come back, and I would have to love him again and God will help me do it. Or he may never come back and I will not have that family life I wanted. My heart says that God will provide a life for me as my H's wife, even I don't understand what that looks like, even if my H does not come along to share it.

I am more aware than ever of how weak I am, of how helpless in the face of the allure of this world. I understand maybe for the first time that I can do nothing via my own will. I just keep asking God to know me as I am and to help me to walk in the path he wants for me, to make it possible when it has become impossible, to forgive me and invite me back when I am not strong enough to stay the course.
Good Morning Gerda

Those are very good and deeply probing questions of your faith and beliefs. It is perfectly normal to feel uncertain, or unfaithful, or undeserving of a new M (with H or without), and helpless in all this. (((Gerda)))

The tempting allures of the world do seem unmanageably large at times. Indifference, the lessening of feelings, skews perceptions of other feelings, making those seem much larger and more real than they normal would be. It will flit. It will pass.

You are a strong capable woman, with a strong will; I see it, I believe it. You just need to believe it too.

I’ll pester and encourage you another day regarding your will power.

For today is your’s. Hug your kids. See all the love that does surround you.

Gerda, you are a wonderful caring Mom.

Happy Mother’s Day.

DnJ
Thank you, DnJ, for the kind words and for thinking of me today.

My S13 left me a huge bouquet with chocolates and a card; the cover of the card said, "Happy Mother's Day to the Best Mom Ever!" with a heart ,and he colored every letter a different color. And the heart. This from a super cool urban street kid forever in a hoodie who tries to show how hard he is. And the inside said,

Thank you so much for the being the most sweetest, nicest, greatest, sweetest and understandable person ever. Thank you so much for heering (sic) all my problems and helping me and not giving up on me after what I do sometimes. You are always looking for the best for me and if I don't show you the love you deserve it is because I don't know how. I love you so much and if I can't always show it, I hope you know I love you so much and have no idea what I do without you. If I listed the things I was greatful (sic) for then the list would never end. Even though it's not the best right now it will certainly get better. Just wait because the days will get better and life will be better. Give it all time. I love you and I hope you have the best day. Love, S. P.S. D10 is young and can't show as much of her love to you through gifts. But she will soon. Love you again!

I took the time to type all that out because I thought it might offer some hope to those with kids who are really suffering through the MLC life. Those who followed my story know that my S13 is often acting like an MLCer himself and is the hardest part of my life. So it's great to see once in a while that all that patience is worth it.
What a lovely card from the tough street kids sporting the hoodie; just a wonderful little boy inside. Rather thoughtful and empathic, quite the little man you have there.
That was a beautiful message for you. You must have been bursting. It just goes to prove what a great job you are doing and how much you are loved.
WOW, a 13 year old wrote that!! So mature, caring and understanding. Well done you (and him).

Best wishes
Originally Posted by Gerda
how my H's choice can't change my vision of what M is. i think, well, yes, a terrible thing happened, my H went insane, the life I wanted is not going to be the life I live, and I have a very heavy cross the carry.

There are two points I'd like to make about "choice". Firstly and one that may seem negative, but isn't necessarily. I read somewhere that we are where we are because of the choices we made. Technically it is undeniable. This is not that we are to blame. Although this applies to all aspects of our lives, I will apply it here to our situations with our WAS. We choose them. Then throughout our M, we treated them in a certain way. Unconsciously or consciously we choose actions that weakened our M. They did too, no doubt about that. You also chose to stand.

Whereas at first glance that may appear unhelpful, my second point is that your actual present is a direct result from décisions that you made in the past. Which means that your future is directly related to choices you make NOW. I understand that your situation can be a heavy burden but I also believe that you can change how you see that and in doing so, lessen the load.



He may come back, and I would have to love him again and God will help me do it.

You don't have to do anything. Is that what you want?

Or he may never come back and I will not have that family life I wanted.

The life that you wanted........ Is that what you want now?

I am more aware than ever of how weak I am, of how helpless in the face of the allure of this world. I understand maybe for the first time that I can do nothing via my own will. I just keep asking God to know me as I am and to help me to walk in the path he wants for me, to make it possible when it has become impossible, to forgive me and invite me back when I am not strong enough to stay the course.

You are conflicted. It is understandable. Take some pressure off yourself. Give yourself some time and space to see this and to see your path forward. Maybe the best way to do that is to take the focus away from your situation and put it into filling your life with whatever you CHOOSE.

I repeat this often to many people, including myself! But I believe it to be through. When going through a crisis there are three phases. First you do whatever it takes to just SURVIVE. That in itself can be a huge achievement. Then we need to take steps to LIVE again. Fact is many of us stopped living during our M. And all of us stop living when we enter a M crisis as the LBS. but we can chose how we live through our crisis. Once we really start living the life we love, we can THRIVE. Make the most of what we have and what we can do.

Whenever I feel my situation weighing on me, I remind myself that I CHOSE to stand. If that hasn't changed, then the next step is to decide how to live whilst standing


Wow, Roist, there is a lot here and I will come back this weekend to answer it! Thank you!

I have a question for Job and anyone else.

I have reconnected with an old friend this past year, and he has been helping me through the legal stuff in the D and in my other court case. I have also been helping him with some writing stuff. It's fun of course, but also just really helpful. It is not a romantic involvement.

He has been trying for six months to get me to let him come over and talk to H about getting out. He has often made the point that H has never had to face another man and admit that he is bullying me and that he is destroying his kids by refusing to leave while forcing us to go through this and not helping me financially or around the house or really in any way whatsoever, and then brutalizing me in court. And I do think that this is true that facing some other men would be a good thing, but I have always resisted this from this particular friend for a variety of reasons.

My H's lawyer is playing hardball and they are so far not accepting any offer to get him to move out before the whole D is finalized. My H wants all his money and refuses to leave until I buy him out of house. I am asking for a year to work on a buy-out, but with some advance on his share during that year.

If they keep resisting, my L will file a motion to get sole use of marital residence ad litem but is trying to negotiate it first.

I was just wondering if my instinct is correct that a visit from this friend would probably do nothing because my H is an MLCer, not a rational being, and thus will not understand or listen or will blame it on me.

Or could it be a good thing for him to see that I have friends who are ready to protect me? Could it help at all to get him to leave?

Or is it bad because this friend is a man, and a very handsome masculine type who would clearly win a physical fight (not that there would be one, but I just mean he has a strong physical presence)?

Or could that be part of what could make my H realize he can't stay here bullying me forever?

I assume you will all say that I am out of my mind if I think this could have any good effect.

Honestly I would be really happy if a contingent of my guy friends from this board showed up at my door and told H to get the heck out before they made him get out! And I am talking about the full size versions, not the little ones I keep on my mantle to keep my head straight.

But I know that this has more to do with what I want than with what would actually work.
DnJ, Westo, Roist -- thank you for the kind words about my son. He does still have that core of goodness in there I guess!

And thank you for believing in me. You are biased no doubt but I like it! I do not think I do a good job at all, but I am happy that I have kept the lines of trust open. Parenting is one heckuva humbling experience.
Good Morning Gerda

A gang of mantle size DnJ and others telling off H. That brought a smile to my face. Lol.

Unfortunately the actual size version if us would do just about as well as our miniature counterparts. It would probably entrench H really deep, justify his version beyond belief, and cause all manner of problems. You think it is difficult to reason with H now, just push him and give him something to actually rage against. The slim potential of good that might come about is overshadowed by a real probability of worse from H.

That is also the likely conclusion of interference or manipulation from your guy friend. And believe me I would like nothing better than him, me, or someone else to talk some sense into these MLCers. Of course I would like to have started with my XW, and I left that alone, so you know I do believe in this viewpoint.

Gerda, you are not powerless! You are taking your steps, sought legal counsel, changed legal counsel, taking legal action, getting H out of the house, and moving forward. You are detaching, healing, becoming indifferent, helping son and daughter, you are really moving forward.

You are!

I would love to show up at your house. And enjoy a wonderful visit and coffee. You have my complete support with what you are doing (and yeah I’d like to throttle that H of your sometimes...grrrr).

Belief makes reality.

You got this Gerda. Believe it.

And while I’m at it:

Originally Posted by Gerda
And thank you for believing in me. You are biased no doubt but I like it! I do not think I do a good job at all, but I am happy that I have kept the lines of trust open. Parenting is one heckuva humbling experience.

You need to modify this a bit.

Quote
And thank you for believing in me. You are biased no doubt but I like it! I do not think I do a good job at all, but and I am happy that I have kept the lines of trust open. Parenting is one heckuva humbling experience.


Really, you got this.

Believe it.

DnJ
Gerda,

I strongly advise against having your male friend come over and have a discussion w/your h. You do not want to drag another person into your situation and then your h turn around and use it against you, i.e., saying that you are having an affair, etc. Also, a conversation by an outsider will only make things worse for you and your children. He will then be even more determined to stay put and make your life even more bloody h@ll.

My advice, stick to the legal way of doing things and allow the system to do it's work. I know you want him out, but sometimes, we have to sit quietly and be patient because God works on his own time schedule and will do what he needs to do when he thinks it is time to do so.
Hi Gerda!
I have to say that you sound so much stronger since coming back to the boards. You may not feel that way (I think you said that somewhere), but you definitely sound that way!

I hope you are able to get your H out of the house soon. Having lived both (in house and out of the house MLC) I can tell you for sure that even though both are hard, having the MLCer out of the house makes your healing so much easier.

I concur that you shouldn't have your guy friend talk to your H. Nothing good can come of that. H would NOT take it the way you want. It is a tempting prospect, but I vote to continue to let the legal system do its thing...even if it is at a snails pace.

I hope you are having a wonderful day today!
Gerda agree not to get your friend involved as tempting as it is.
DnJ, SJohn, Gordie, Job, I know you are right. I even showed your messages to my friend to convince him that it was a bad idea. (Though I would love to open my front door and see any of you there.)

I still think that in another time of history, friends and family from the church would be a big part of our lives, and that the MLCer would not be able to do so much damage before getting the boots kicked out of him in an alley, and I think that was probably a good thing. There are no limits on my H's horrible behavior. Even the court limits him hardly at all. I had to go through months of woe getting this custody agreement down and so far I have not seen a penny of child support, a minute of planned childcare nor has he moved off the couch. This weekend my D was at a girl scout trip and I had to go out of town for a night for a work thing and was in terror leaving my son here. I do not speak to H anymore but I e-mailed him that S had plans but would be sleeping at home and knew that H would be there if he needed anything. I left S money for food. When I got back, S told me that he ate out for every meal, by himself, and that H never offered him any food. When I got back, the food I had left S for the first dinner was still out on the stove, mostly eaten, there was food and dirty dishes everywhere, filthy counters, fruit flies, trash overflowing.

I keep seeing people around town who know us -- I live in a huge city but we owned a very popular biz and know a lot of people. They keep asking me if we are divorcing. I am vague about it but mention that he is not in his right mind and that it's time for him to leave the house for a while. I do not want that identity, and all I can think of is that Christ willingly took the worst punishment, created for criminals (and this is also compelling to me now that I work in a prison and consider many "criminals" my friends) for my sake -- and for H's too -- so I can wear this horrible title that I never wanted or thought would be mine, divorced woman, like a crown of thorns, with confidence in Him.

I am stronger now, as you have all noted. As I return to a more confident self, the one I was before marriage, it erodes other aspects of myself and gets jumbled into my lingering feelings of ugliness and then the whole temptation issue I have alluded to, etc., so it's all a bit confusing. But I am definitely stronger and clearer. I am glad you noticed.

Well, today is my 19th wedding anniversary. So I am ready for a series of comforting notes from all of you.
OMG as I hit "post" on that and started cooking breakfast, H came barreling in and WHILE I WAS WASHING THE PAN TO MAKE S PANCAKES, thrust a pot under the water to fill it. We were literally standing at the sink together with my pan under his while he filled his. Then wouldn't move aside from the stove and started furiously cooking next to me. I said, "Can you just give me 5 minutes to make S's breakfast?" and he said, "No, Gerds, I am late too," like an angry teenager. So I moved out of the kitchen for a minute to type this so I wouldn't say something vicious. I am looking at my mantle while H rushes around banging pots and pans and I am looking that mantle-sized versions of DnJ, Gordie, SJohn, Job. Thank God you are all here. : )
Gerda -

Surely God is guiding you. You have the patience of a Saint! I think of you often, and prayed specifically for you on my way to work today. Although today is your anniversary, it signifies vows you took with a completely different man. Perhaps he is in there somewhere. Only God knows his course. But, probably a sad day for you in some respects.

(((((Gerda)))))

You are strong, brave, and a rock for your S. I admire your strength and faith.

Grace
Gerda,

I am so sorry that things aren't any better. I am going to wish you a Happy Anniversary because you've stayed the course and believe in your vows and the teachings that we have been taught through the bible.

I think your h realized what today was and he didn't want you to say anything about it. He's made at himself and the world. I think the problem is that he is stuck in the anger phase of the crisis and he feels miserable and he wants others to feel the same way. When he sees you and the family being calm and happy, he can't stand it. This is no excuse for bad behavior, but that is what I think is going on. The calmer you are, the more angry he will become.

I use to feel that being "divorced" was a horrible title, but I don't any longer. Why? Because I can sleep at night, look people in the eye and know that I was not the one who wanted that document filed in a court of law. I wasn't the one that went out there and had an affair and did not try to vilify him to others, i.e., like he did to me. I did not set out to destroy my spouse, emotionally and financially and I am at peace now w/the guidance of the man upstairs. I forgave my xh many years ago and today, well, I look at photos of him and do not recognize him, but I do pray for him because he needs to find peace.

Once I felt better about my life and my situation, I didn't give the title of "divorce" a second thought. Divorce today and a dime a dozen and doesn't have the stigma it had back years ago. Everywhere you look, people are divorcing because it is so much easier to get one than do the hard, necessary work to repair a damaged relationship. So, please do not think of a "divorce" as wearing a crown of thorns. Hold your head up high, back straight and look people in the eye and do not be ashamed...you've done nothing wrong.

Stay strong. You've got this.
Good Morning Gerda

I am thinking about, and feel for you today - 19 year anniversary. I am sure your emotions and thoughts are a little mixed and scattered, which is perfectly understandable.

There are no words to erase the past or the pain, just the slow forward progress towards the unknown future. Progress towards compassion, understanding, and forgiveness. Progress towards your healing.

I am happy to be a companion on your journey, even if it can only be mantle sized.

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am stronger now, as you have all noted. As I return to a more confident self, the one I was before marriage, it erodes other aspects of myself and gets jumbled into my lingering feelings of ugliness and then the whole temptation issue I have alluded to, etc., so it's all a bit confusing. But I am definitely stronger and clearer. I am glad you noticed.

I am glad you see it Gerda.

Be patient and gentle on yourself, things will be a little confusing until it all gels and settles.

As for the title of divorced woman and your view of it being horrible. I do empathize. That was one of my big fears - divorce! I hated the idea, the stigma, the thought of it, how others would see me, would think of me, etc... A divorced man - what did he do? Why did she leave him?

Why do we blame the victim? Why do we blame ourselves? Cause and effect. Except the cause is not of our doing.

Understand and believe this - it gets so much better!

As job said, hold your head up high. You have done nothing wrong.

This is a step you must go through, this horrible divorce self blaming thing. We all do it. And then see and believe the truth of it. Be patient answers and insights do and will reveal themselves, especially when you’re calm and at peace; you really cannot force them.

Letting go of fear, especially the fear of divorce, is a big step. Facing my divorce, was difficult. I think I overcame my fears regarding it. I can’t really remember how I felt.

It seems so weird now. I am divorce, it happened, there is nothing left to fear. Something so big, so irrationally consuming, just becomes nothing - really - just like that. Very weird. As things snap from possible futures into the present reality, fears disappear. So why fear them up front?

My XW pushed abandonment, a separation, and a divorce. She is a sad broken woman, and I do feel for her and all she has thrown away. I look at her with compassion and forgiveness, there really isn’t much else I can do. Hatred and vengeance isn’t the path I want to walk, and it isn’t me. I know who I am, and where I stand.

I see your path following a similar direction. The twists and turns, the dips and valleys, may be different; the heading is the same. Knowledge of one’s self, one’s values and convictions, one’s faith, one’s capacity to understand and forgive.

Today, on your 19th anniversary, amidst all the jumble of emotions and thoughts - I ask you to just acknowledge there is a different future coming. A future with acceptance and understanding. A bright and wonderful future for Gerda.

Stay strong.

Stay in the light.

(((Gerda)))

DnJ
Gerda,

I read what you wrote to Gordie on his thread. It really got me thinking. You have changed so much since you first started posting (at least in regards to your relationship with H, but I believe it to be more than that). So much that it got me thinking about myself and I realize how much I have changed too. How you described your feelings for H summed up really well how I've been feeling about W. I don't feel like I love her anymore. Or, actually, I know I loved her and the person she was. She has not been that person for some time and I do not love who she is now. I don't hate her, but I don't love her either. I feel like I may still have love for her bottled up somewhere deep within myself, but it isn't really for HER, its for who she was, and maybe who she could become in the future.

I really wish you had not been living with H for the last 6 years. In the beginning I did not want W to move and it was very difficult on me when she did. But, in retrospect, I do not feel like my healing/detaching really began until she moved out. In a manner, her moving out might have saved me from hating her in the long run. I think that had she been living at home treating me bad for the last year that I might have ended up hating and resenting her eventually. Currently, I just don't think I love her anymore. I hope you are able to live away from H soon.

I hope you are doing well today! Thinking of you!!

(((Gerda)))
Grace, this note meant a lot to me, I read it many times that day. I always feel that I am stumbling but then I realize I am still walking and that indeed, God must be helping me, He is hearing me for sure. Sometimes I can feel Him walking with me.

Lately as certain things in me get eroded, I finalize understand that struggle I read about other people having, to feel that I am worthy of God's love, that I don't have to be perfect before I ask him for help. I am struggling with this now but I do see it as a grace that I can understand that, as I never really did before, when I read other people seeing that.

I want to thank you for your friendship, it means a lot to me and is a real gift. I have been following your sitch and am so impressed with the joy you have been taking in your daily life.

Here's a prayer for you for today --

Holy God, Your beloved Son has called me “friend!” As I quietly come to You to contemplate the great gift of His gracious friendship to me, please calm my mind and still my body. Bring me to a deep awareness, O My Father in Heaven, of Your presence to me right here, right now . . . . above me, below me, behind me, before me, around me, beside me, within me. I lovingly thank You for Your infinite goodness to me, in particularly today in the gifts of Jesus’s friendship with me, and what an example He has given to me for my friendship with others. I ask You to grant me the gift of holy friendships in my life, with individuals who will walk faithfully side by side and arm in arm with me, back to You, as we travel our pilgrim journeys on this earth together. Amen.
Job, your notes are so helpful to me. I read what you wrote a lot that day and since. Your heart is so kind and you have really used your own pain to gain perspective that helps others gain it too.

About the Crown of Thorns -- all that I said about hating the title is still on me, though what you are saying makes total sense, I still wish I could have avoided it. But seeing it as a crown of thorns is the way I DO wear it with pride. A friend reminded me yesterday not to expect too much of myself. Christ willingly chooses to suffer for us, but for us, we never or almost never choose to suffer. I mean, choosing to stand is choosing to suffer, but it's certainly not something I would choose in advance! But in willingly taking that crown, I think that I actually can walk with my head held high. There is not really a way for me to wear the title of divorced woman proudly but if I see it that way, I can feel some peace and even pride --

Philippians 3:8-11

Thank you a million, Job, for caring about me!
Gerda

I think you should take the kids out tonight

Dinner? Movie? Ice Cream? Anything.

Just for fun.
Hallo, DnJ. I risk redundancy as usual in thanking you for your extremely thoughtful (in all senses of the word) replies to me, and for your very clear empathy. The benefit of our suffering through the same thing at the same time in history as well as at nearly the same time in our lives (age-wise) is that when you tell me you are thinking of me, this is no Hallmark card with a little wilty pink flower on the cover, and some cheesy blue script lettering, "Thinking of you" on the inside. I know it means that a friend whose name I don't even know who lives in some tiny town in some cold Canadian somewhere knows with both scientific and emotional exactitude just precisely what his friend is feeling, a friend whose name he doesn't know who lives in one of the world's biggest cities far away -- and that his heart is bleeding just a tiny bit on her behalf even as he can see the trajectory ahead that leads to a brighter moment.

And that's a rather intense comfort!

I wish you had been on the mantle in the last week because I really don't have the energy to explain all that happened --but in short, the devil has definitely built a hot little nest in my H's heart and mind and all I can do is keep pushing to get him out of here. His L is demanding $3500/mo in spousal support, not even off the top of his share of our house TBD later, for 7 months at which point I have to buy him out or sell. Right in the middle of the school year.

And on top of all that, on that anniversary day, I started suffering some signs of a kind of cancer that I am at risk for because of the drug I take since having had breast cancer. So I had to rush to doc for biopsy, and I only mentioned it to H after he kept texting me about using the car and some other stupid stuff as a way to force him to leave me alone. He never asked me about it and mercifully left town again this weekend. I told his mother and all she said was that I should tell him so that we could "be ready" for any outcome. I guess she means if I die?

Well huzzah! in that case H would finally get all the money he wants!

Sadly for him i think the worst case scenario will be a hysterectomy.

But the other good outcome of that was that my L turned into a knight in armor when I told him about it. He has gotten all fired up to fight for me and keeps telling me not to stress, he will take all the stress, and I should just take care of my health. We have court on Wed and he will be filing a motion for sole use of marital residence and for H to actually pay the child support required by law now that he has signed a visitation agreement. I have not been wanting to force the visitation stuff because now not only my S but my D do not want to see him. More on that below in response to Gordie.

OK, DnJ, I have a large pot of tea here and it's a beautiful cool day, sun pouring in but breezy, so I can bake whatever it is you are in the mood to have with the tea. What is your favorite?
Originally Posted by sjohns6
You have changed so much since you first started posting (at least in regards to your relationship with H, but I believe it to be more than that). So much that it got me thinking about myself and I realize how much I have changed too.


I have been thinking about what you wrote for a few days now, sjohn. I mean, all the nice things you wrote and your care and concern for me is the most important part, I can't tell you how much this means to me to have your admiration, friendship, concern. But also just this part, about how much you and I have changed.

I don't know you well enough to know if you have changed. But I kept thinking about it and I do not think I have changed really. Not my core. I have been at this standing thing for six years now, and I think I did realize that the vows I took meant something more than what I understood when I took them. Or that the kind of person I thought I was really is who I am -- in some ways I returned to her, she was a tough cookie and had a lot of confidence -- tough, witty, can make almost anyone laugh, can cut a business deal like no one's business, can fight in or out of court like a mongoose on a cobra, but still has a heart that only wants to love.

And now, unlike when I was her before, I think I understand what it means to really love a man. Not just to find him handsome or to love his ways or to love to cook for him or to let the thought of him invade your mind all day long, but to stand by him when he is no longer handsome and you don't love any of his ways and you can't cook for him and mostly don't want to and when the thought of him brings only pain or total detachment.

Now my stand has become a willingness to take him back if he ever tries to return. Even if I don't love him. I just trust that God will help me love him again if I say yes to his return as a way of saying yes to God.

What I think changed in the last year was H. I think that this entire time, his whole MLC, he was half in and half out. He wasn't mentioning D, he was cheating and had monstering periods and didn't show me any care or help me or anything, often disappeared, etc. But there were so many times when he seemed to be coming back, and in the times between, he was still pretending on some level to be my H and my kids' dad. He was a terrible H and a terrible dad, but the kids and I could still feel like he was in some way ours, and that we were waiting for the "real" version of him to come back.

In the last year, I think I finally experienced what many of you have experienced all along. There was no longer any pretense of him still being ours. He became totally wicked, and all his life is devoted to destroying me and to destroying our home and to weaponizing our kids instead of just ignoring them.

So his change -- his transformation into someone ready to not only believe the devil's lies but act on them -- forced me to step up my game. I couldn't just rely anymore on hope and prayer or I would lose my actual home and kids. I had to go to God and ask Him to stand by me in a different way because I couldn't just be the patient sufferer, I had to play the D game, something I never thought I would ever have to do. I became active instead of just waiting, but I saw that being active in this way, to deflect all the blows from my H and his L, could still be part of my waiting. Even getting rid of my first L and getting a tough one was a way for me to stop being in denial, to realize that my H really was undertaking all these horrific things and I had to walk through it with strength and confidence.

Maybe I am only proving what you meant about me changing. But I think I want to be sure of myself, of who I am, and to know that I have been consistent before, now and in the future, even as this new role is thrust on me. It reminds me of when I had an MRI when I had breast cancer -- I was of course alone, my H was crazy by then -- and in the MRI I was not only worried that I was going to die of cancer but just in the moment I was in this dark tunnel of totally mind-numbing noise, and I was praying really loudly and crying the whole time -- and I heard the guy in the booth say, "I don't know what you are doing, but you are moving, and I am going to have to start the whole thing over if you can't stand still," so for a moment I stopped praying, and then I felt myself fainting because in the noise and the darkness and the fear, I couldn't even find a thread that was myself. It was like I was dropping out of myself into nothing. So I had to pray with all my strength inside my head, without moving, sure that there was a light somewhere and a thread that was me, even if around me all was darkness and noise.

So I guess that is how I feel now. I am forcing myself to know I am still here, me as me, and to trust that there is an end to this horrible noise and darkness and all I have to do is pass through it until I can hear myself again.

And I consider you and my other friends here to be like a kind friend outside the MRI, just beyond, standing in the light, urging me not be afraid, promising me that we will walk out of that place together into the light of the daylight beyond.
Gordie, you always leave a little gold nugget for me. In just a couple of words, you say an entire volume of things and encourage me and inspire me.

I know exactly what you meant. And you are right. I wish I didn't have to work so much to get food on the table, I wish I could be like that more often. But I need to try everyday to have some time like that.

And the funny thing is that yesterday I did put down my work and really just hang out with D10. She has been struggling a lot and I noticed that in the last few weeks as my H becomes more and more demonic, even she seems not to want to be with him anymore. And she keeps telling me about how he gets very enraged and talks about how awful I am, how I take all the money and won't give him any, etc.

So I lay on the couch with her in my arms and just listened and asked her questions.

She totally broke down, started crying like crazy but in this way I never saw before, sort of squeezing her face with her hands. She told me, "I hate Papa. He might be the worst person I ever met in my life. He’s a meanie, he’s just a meanie! A Meanie!"

I said, "I see. Did something new happen?"

D: "No."

"Are you mad because of how he is to you or because he doesn’t love me?"

D: "He doesn’t love me."

"You don’t think so?"

D: "Well, he says he loves me, he is nice to me sometimes and says nice things, but he doesn’t love me with his heart. He doesn’t live that he loves me."

"I think he loves you as much as he can right now. But I know what you mean. You want him to be in your life and be a dad."

D said, “I don’t know if he will ever love me. But he just isn't someone who can be like that now. It's part of the same thing. I don’t think he can love me unless he loves you too."
The sooner that man gets out of your home, the better you and your kids will be.

You know I’m not religious but I’m praying that it will be soon, for all of your sakes.
Hello Gerda

Originally Posted by Gerda
OK, DnJ, I have a large pot of tea here and it's a beautiful cool day, sun pouring in but breezy, so I can bake whatever it is you are in the mood to have with the tea. What is your favorite?

I have always loved butter tart slice. It is just like butter tarts, just baked in a pan, not in a shell, then cut into squares. This way there is less pastry and more sugary goodness. A much better filling to pastry ratio. smile Yum! Ah, the kid in me.

A funny little story. During coffee break at work I was asked about not having my coffee thermos. I explained I was out of coffee cream at home so I was coffee-less that day. This brought up a bunch of how people used to drink coffee with cream and sugar and now they drink it just black. I told the table that I did that for a while, drank my coffee black, realized I really don’t like it that way, so why do it. I have cream and sugar and enjoy my coffee, and slip happily. The amazement and utter quiet that over took the group was comical. The scant amount of caloric intake from a bit of sugar and creamer versus the enjoyment, or lack of, from drinking it black - you could see people weighing it out.

I’m really not too concerned over 30 or so calories; not after what I’ve been through. smile I just found it kind of funny, peer pressure - at my age. Yeah, not likely.

So cream and sugar in my tea. Maybe? I don’t know. I don’t drink tea. I always try stuff as is, for the first time. I haven’t had tea in many years. I will guarantee this, if we ever meet I will have tea with you - even plain (the first cup anyhow).


Originally Posted by Gerda
I told his mother and all she said was that I should tell him so that we could "be ready" for any outcome. I guess she means if I die?

Well huzzah! in that case H would finally get all the money he wants!

Sadly for him i think the worst case scenario will be a hysterectomy.

Well first off, I am glad you went to the doctor for a biopsy. It is best to know what you’re dealing with. (((Gerda))) Like you needed on your plate more right now.

Huzzah! - I just about shot cream and sugared coffee out my nose reading that. smile

I am pretty sure you thought of this ... but... do you realize your need of a new will? One that ensures your kids’ welfare and security? I found out one cannot change their will while undergoing separation proceedings. Once financially separated, it’s a good idea to get that will done.

I do like your lawyer, the knight in shining armour. He is right, let him stress and worry - you focus on getting healthy (and baking butter tart slice, I also like Nanaimo bars). Good luck on Wednesday. I do agree with your L’s suggested motions (child support), and see your point as well (the actual visiting). I am interested in what the arrangements are, however I also understand how sensitive that is, so please do not feel you have to share anything because I asked. Face to face over tea I am sure would be different.

Originally Posted by Gerda
And that's a rather intense comfort!

That is nice to hear. Thank you.

Yes we are two friends, names unknown, thrown together by tragic events, and connected by much more.

DnJ

Oh, I also like cheesecake, marshmallow squares, cookies, pies, cakes, chips, jerky, bacon, steak, potato, bacon (I know I said that, but I really like it), chocolate, strawberries, watermelon, corn, cotton candy, pretzels, ice cream, those little donuts they make at the carnival, anything with icing, ... hmmm ... food. And good friends.
Crikey but I loved this note. You made me laugh at least four times.

I have to write back to it later. But -- I had to look up what the heck your favorite items were and I was like, WHERE HAS BUTTER TART SLICE AND NANAIMO BEEN ALL MY LIFE?!!!!

I am going to make those this weekend and snort them off the table in lines.

Also I want to apologize for forcing you to drink virtual/future tea so many times. I never realized you didn't like it. Coffee with cream and sugar is also available. And thank you for making me feel better about the cream and sugar in my tea. I live in a city of stick figures who eat no gluten, carbs or dairy, so it was nice to put a spoon of sugar and a pour of fatty cream in my tea and say, Well, suck eggs, DnJ does it and no one knows the trouble I've seen either. Except DnJ and the rest of you lot.

But I object to what you said about rap on your thread. I have grown to love it and deeply respect the geniuses who can do it. Just look at how many lyrics they have to memorize!!! Way more than a pop or rock song, and very complex lyrics to boot. I have been working in urban areas all my life so I know lots of people from this world and it is full of art and complexity. There are lots of good ones also that cross the lines of genres, here is one you might like --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSgUMPHQEWw

But right now I am having to prepare for another divorce court meeting after another morning with H getting in my way in the kitchen. I am not sure why I haven't lost it yet. I keep telling God that I am at the end of my rope and then he does nothing about the rope or the thing pulling on it so I have to keep finding more rope. I do not want to find any more rope. I need some Mantle DnJ and some Mantle Gordie, SJohn (AND LORD I AM SO SICK OF THE AUTOCORRECT BACK TO JOHN FROM SJOHN) and Mantle Job to stick in my backpack. I hope you all won't mind being run through the metal detector.

I am making jokes but I feel like throwing up or crawling under a rock to slowly die.
Hello Gerda

Originally Posted by Gerda
I had to look up what the heck your favorite items were and I was like, WHERE HAS BUTTER TART SLICE AND NANAIMO BEEN ALL MY LIFE?!!!!

I am going to make those this weekend and snort them off the table in lines.

Hahahaha!

I think you are going to love those.

And yeah! Cream and sugar in our tea and coffee. And suck eggs if you don’t like it! Cream and sugar users unite and stand up. smile smile

I will say the rap music comments were my son’s, I wasn’t there. I did listen to your suggested song. It now, with mine added to it, has 57,744,654 views - they can’t all be wrong. smile

Best of luck at the court meeting. And I don’t mind the metal detector.

I am glad you had some good laughs and smiled.

DnJ
Well, it was h#ll but I made it out alive. And we made an agreement that H has to move out ON SATURDAY.

We worked him down but not really to anything I can manage. I signed that I would give him 5K to move out and 3K a month after that for three months, and then we have another conference. I will have to divide my apartment in half and rent out half of it at least 4 nights a week to manage to even get close. But I am hoping my father will loan me the money for this first payment. So far he is giving me a hard time about it.

I was so desperate that I agreed to it. It was all so surreal. It's hard to get what you really want or need when you are there because there is so much lying and nastiness.

At one point, his L was screaming out in the hall that I made 30K a month on our rentals and was hiding it. This is a complete and total lie. But I would have to wait for a trial to prove it and my L just kept trying to keep me focused on the goal, which was to get him out the door.

So I had to agree to give him 5K the day he moved out and 3K a month after that for three months, until our next conference. And in the meantime the house would be appraised. It was hard to get them to say that this money was off the final share and wasn't spousal support. We managed to get the 5K allocated as a credit to his share of assets but the other months the best we could do was "TBD allocation."

I guess my first L never gave them any bank statements and my H has deluded himself into thinking he can't just go to the bank and ask for them. So hopefully now that my L is giving them all that stuff, maybe my H's L will actually realize that there is no money being hidden and that we are a sinking ship.

Or maybe not. But at least I will have some peace.

My kids were very upset even though both have been wanting this for a while. They were in shock I guess.

I am too. But I know that the peace will change things. I just hope that dividing the apartment will not be too awful and that money will come in quickly and I can start to dig out of this hole.

H looks so tortured and miserable. I wrote my friend a very dark text during the time in court saying that it was just me and H sitting in the courtroom, him just behind me, but I never looked at him. I just read a bible and sometimes got a text from my friend that made me laugh. He was telling me various things I should start shouting in court and making fun of my L's lawyer -- my L's lawyer is a real ambulance chaser and is very disgusting looking so I call him Jabba the Hutt.

It is getting harder to imagine H ever waking up and understanding what he did or what is happening right now but he looks so tortured and miserable that I am often surprised he doesn't just implode. I keep picturing how he will feel when he is gone -- I think he will be drunk a lot but I think that he will be in shock that he is not part of a home anymore. He will blame me and thus for a while he will still be able to avoid the truth. But as he was kicked out of his home often as a teen and also ran away very often, I think this is all part of reliving his youth in the darkest of ways.

My S just asked me to read to him for a while. He has been doing that lately. He is so difficult to deal with but tonight I just showered him with love, went to get his favorite ice cream, etc. My heart is breaking for these kids!!!! We have been waiting for 6 years for H to come back and finally they have to face that he is really doing this, he is really leaving. They don't really know about all the evil money stuff so I assume he will at some point tell them I kicked him out.

So put on your seat belts, here we go.

But I would like to close with something hopeful, a letter from a priest I love. I wrote to him about all the people telling me to seek an annulment. And about the temptations I have been facing recently in the context of my vows.

Dear Gerda,

Thank you for your Letter. Surely I love you and will love you no matter what happens in your life. And let me tell you, that even God loves you more because you now need Him more.

First you have to protect yourself and your family from the attacks of your husband. Even though the church might recognize the invalidity of your marriage, I believe that God can re-create new life, even after death. So keep protecting your children and family with patience and perseverance. An annulment would not change anything!

The second situation that you have to work on is your loneliness.

It is something that you now feel more than before, because of your difficult situation. It is human and natural to look for support and friendship. .... The Lord is very compassionate especially with those in a situation like yours. He knows that we are weak and we cannot live in loneliness. He embraces you as a good father and kisses you are His chosen daughter. Just keep walking, fighting and praying to Him, because He wants to help you.

It is important not to listen to the devil.... Most of all he makes you feel that God the Father does not love you any more; that is a lie and he is a lier. You are very much loved by you Father in heaven and earth.

So, just pick your your mat and walk. Keep living, keep fighting for your family and keep praying EVEN MORE. Go to church and stay there for a while, even if you don't say anything! You will find the strength to go on. And if you fall, like Jesus in the way of the cross, GET UP, go to confession and keep walking TILL THE END.

Maybe now you feel weak, but if you keep getting up, you will find the grace of God, which will renew your courage and strength.

I love you and God loves you too.

- Father Y
Gerda,

I know you know this already...but document everything. Take photos of the inside of your home so that you are aware of what is being moved out on Saturday. Also, make sure that you can very good records of what you give in the way of funds. There is no reason that this man can't work a better paying job and unless I am missing something, you shouldn't be paying him spousal support.

Have someone at the house on Saturday just in case he becomes ever more of a monster. If someone is there, he might not act like a mule around you or the kids.

I am sorry it has come to this....but it's been a long time coming and hopefully you will find some peace and be able to make the space far better for children and you.
Good Morning Gerda

I feel for you dear girl.

I suspect you have mixed feelings in all this. Sad you have reached an agreement. Happy you have reached an agreement.

It’s ok. And yes there will be a certain amount of shock to overcome in all this, for both you and the kids.

Two days. On Saturday. He will move out. You will fine peace. You will lose your fears over this; we aren’t fearful of stuff that has happened. There has been a very heavy weight upon you for a long time, let it lift.

I too am sorry it has come to this. And I know you have a bright future waiting for you to discover it.

A wise letter from your priest friend. Get up, and keep walking. You are loved, you will be surrounded by the grace of God.

DnJ
Job and DnJ, thank you for being there this morning. Your notes were a great help to keep my focus.

I noticed that both kids are scared and both kept asking me how Papa would live, where he would live, as if they know that he will completely collapse and fall apart without being in our house.

That is where my fear comes in.

But I am not even sure if he has another woman, so maybe he is going there.

He has barely spoken to the kids. I think he is so ashamed but is channeling it all into hating me.

This current stage is an admission that he really is crazy, this realy is happening. I know that seems ridiculous since I have been at this for six years, but as I was saying to SJohn above, it wasn't until last year, or til he filed, that he stopped seeming like he was "ours" and that we were waiting. Now I am just pushing him to follow through on what he asked for. It feels awful, but I am just hoping that the peace will start soon.

Something awful happened yesterday with my son's teacher and therapist -- and then when I asked my father for money to help me with this, he wrote me a long note about how I never think of taking care of him! I feel like I am surrounded by so much toxicity.

But then I opened my e-mail and my best friend had sent me 5K via PayPal. I did not even ask her for it. She just wrote, "loaner" in the subject line and told me in a separate note that I was a better investment than any bank.

So I guess there's one person teaching us what love means.
Gerda,

It seems like some of them keep pushing and pushing and stating what they want and then when they get what they want, they then monster at us. I can remember the old saying "Be careful what you ask for". My xh didn't really monster when he first left, but when I had the draft separation papers drawn up, per his request and what he wanted stated in them....that's when the full blown monster came out. They truly do not understand what they want and how to go about getting it the proper and decent way.

The only thing I can say is this...take care of yourself and your children. God will watch over him. I know you are worried about him, but he's in God's hands and trust me, your h will have a place to live in no time at all. If the shoe was on the other foot, he most likely wouldn't care if you had a roof over your head or not. That's the mind set that they are in when they monster like this.

Glad someone came to your rescue today. There are angels everywhere and they do show up when we need them the most.
Gerda - You are in my thoughts much throughout the day. I continue to pray for you. Allow God to hold your hand, and see you through this. He will be with you every step. Your priest is wise, and I hope he gave you some comfort.

I love hearing about your friend sending you $. God provides for our needs, and often will do it through friends.

As terrible as all this is, I truly believe peace is around the corner for you. Once H is out, you will develop a new normal in the home with the kids, and without the toxicity of H. Your kids are hurt, confused, and sad, but they are lucky to have you as their mom to help them weather the storm.

Hugs.

Grace
Hello Gerda

Focus on you and your kids. Let go of H. Give him to God. Trust in Him.

Soon dear Gerda, soon. The toxicity will lessen, the fears will lessen, and the pressures you have been living under will lessen.

Focus on you and your kids. Keep your headings. Have faith.

I think you will be shocked when you experience the absence of the stress and pressure caused by H. Gerda then will truly get to shine, and that is something I am looking forward too.

What a wonderful action from your friend. You’ve been blessed with her as a friend.

DnJ
Job, Grace, DnJ, I am reading your words many times a day, thank you.

The amount of evil coming from H and his L is staggering. They are trying to strangle me even in my ability to rent out half my apartment to pay him. The evil is weighing on me only because I am becoming a slave to despair and anger and unforgiveness myself.

I will write more later but just wanted to thank you, keep the notes coming when you visit the boards, I can really use the reminders from you guys in order to keep my head on straight.

XO
Hi Gerda!

Wow, what a crazy couple of days. I know this is a hard time to go through, but you are in the midst of change. All these years you've kind of been in limbo, but you are now in the midst of change. I think after this weekend (and a few days of settling), your life will start to normalize a little. Not that all problems will be solved, but you will be surprised at how much more peace you will feel with H out of the house. Your head will clear, your spirits will lift a little, and so will your confidence. Not in 1 day, but it will start happening. Part of it is the knowing that H isn't going to be there when you get there. Right now thats something that sits in the back of your head all the time...that he is there. Once he is gone and your mind drifts to home, a sense of relief will come with the realization that its your safe place again. I am sad you are going through this, but happy that you are making some forward progress. Just remember that we are all right there walking it with you!

Sorry auto-correct doesn't like sjohns. That isn't even the name I chose initially, it got truncated. The whole thing was sjohns63 because that was my login at work a few years ago, lol. I am far past the point of caring about anonymity. My name is Sam...you can just call me that if you want wink
Gerda - you can do this! You already have been through so very much.

This is the first step to regaining some semblance of peace in your home life.

I am 1 year 5 months out from when my h moved out to go “find himself.” I am sure you will see some unusual behavior. As my h was moving out a neighbor’s dog wandered into our home. The neighbor (who we did not know) came in to fetch the dog, asked if we were moving and my h (without hesitating) said we were just getting rid of some furniture. My older son watched the whole thing and it was quite something to see my ex lie like that. So much odd behavior.

The future is ours to build. And you will do this brick by brick, once you heal.
Thank you so much, DnJ (times many), Job, Grace, HaWho and SAM (I don't know why it made me so happy to know your name but it did!!!). I really really appreciate your encouragement.

He left this morning but left so much of his stuff here. He made me give him so much money to leave and is expecting me to come up with so much each month but doesn't seem to understand that I can't rent out our space with all his crap in it. In some way working on packing up his books for some of today helped give me a focus, I had a few moments of feeling excited about getting this place ready for rentals though I am supposed to be working on a lot of actual paid work today....

I kept looking at what you all said about healing and how I will feel better soon. First day is obviously a raw one. It feels so sad that I have to keep reminding myself how horrifyingly awful it has been to live with him since he filed. The kids are sad but also very confused. S13 told me that H keeps begging him to come and visit him and he kept asking me, "Do I have to go?" This is the third weekend that is "his" weekend and he doesn't even try to see them, just took D out for a 30 minute breakfast, though she told me he talked like a "real dad," telling her not to worry, that he would see her a lot and it would be great.

There was yet another clogged drain at our guesthouse so I had to call the fix it guys -- yesterday I borrowed a snake from the bar next door and snaked a toilet myself, boy that was fun. But this other one was a sink beyond my abilities -- I really think that H was throwing paper towels down the toilet upstairs and that caused it -- but anyway, I asked the guy who came if he knew anyone who could do a quick job for me putting in a new door and a tiny extra kitchen so I could do this rental thing with half my apartment, and he sent his uncle over, and so I might be able to get this happening pretty fast. Which just shows you that even literal sh-- can be turned into something good.

I had such a weird feeling, sitting at my table and talking about how to do this door and set the rental up, that now I was finally doing that thing I had been planning, but I didn't feel powerful and confident, even though I seem like it to everyone else, I have a hole in my heart.

I can't tell if the pressure of having to make so much money to pay H is bringing me down or if it's a good distraction to have to do something.

I am bored of what I am writing, it's all just blah-blah-blah, but I guess I just wanted to sit at this table with all of you for a few moments because even though I am less lonely with him gone than with him here, this is a strange new silence and I think in the silence I can hear my heart aching more than I could when I was feeling like a caged animal with H here.

XO to you all....
Gerda,

I am not at all surprised that he's left a lot of stuff behind. They all do this. I don't know if it's there way to have an excuse to come back periodically and get stuff and check out what you've done with the place or to see if someone else has taken their place or if they just don't want any reminders of their past life. It could be a combination of all three, but the pattern is the same w/all of them. Hopefully, you will be able to clean up the space and get the work done quickly and get the space rented out.

Be sure you document what you've given him in the way of money. You don't want him to come back and say you didn't give him the funds when you did. I just don't trust him.

As for seeing the kids, he may not have much interest in seeing your son, but your daughter will be a different matter. Why? Because he was close to her and he will "pump" her for information and she will not realize that she's telling him about what is going on at home.

Sounds like you've had a lot of issues w/your plumbing. It might be time to think about cleaning the pipes. One way to clean the drains of sinks is to poor some baking soda down into the drain and the pour vinegar in on top of it. Let it set until the bubbling is done and then pour boiling water down into the drain. This will clean the drain and take care of any odors you had. It's easy and a very cheap way to clean your drains.

Take some time and just breathe! Just remember...silence is golden!
Job’s post reminded me of how much my ex left behind. He had become quite a pack rat over the last few years. And when he left I asked him to clear his stuff out as I told him I was not his personal storage unit. In the end, I was unable to get him to take too much of it. He told me his place was small and he had no room for it. I tried to tell him it was still his responsibility to get rid of his own stuff. Months later he asked me for a few items he then wanted. Job will love this: In July he asked for some Xmas items he left!!! Guess it was time to decorate. I had thrown them out months ago.

He left me with some bizarre items. He had stored over 80 gallons of tap water in preparation for I-don’t-know-what: end of the world?!? I asked him to take these when he left and he told me I needed them to keep the kids safe. Forehead slap. It took me months to empty those. I turned off our sprinkles and each week would water some plants with those. I am sure the neighbors thought I was quite some diva, bottle watering my plants. Hah!

When I was down to the last 5 gallons, I sent him a pic and said, I was finally almost done emptying his water and I said “boy you really went off the deep end.” He texted back that I should have kept that water for the kids.

They do often seem to believe things will be a certain way. Mine still wanted to collect his mail at my house?!? And he tried to tell me how to live my life- he always hated the garage door being left open and when he moved out he would still try to tell me to close it.

Once the dust settles a bit you will begin to be amazed at what you lived through.
HaWho, your notes are always really special to me because our situations were so similar.

I told my best friend what you said and she just loved the last line about looking back and being amazed. I think I have no idea what I am living through on some level.

I was starting to feel a little peaceful today, met with another guy about the changes I have to make to start renting and was even feeling a little excited about the changes as I love fixing houses up, and then H sent an e-mail, as he does, to my lawyer, his lawyer and me. Lots of demands and posturing and saying how he was going to come and prepare the house for the appraisal and how he would be back on Sept 30 (our agreement was an interim agreement) if I didn't settle.

I get so scared of him, it's weird. I was practically hyperventilating when I got that letter. But it's the very same fear I had of my mom, who I am sure now had an MLC. I basically am experiencing everything as a wife from H that I experienced as a teen girl from my mom. So I am sure that there is a wound there that I need to heal, if ever I figure it out. I know that I have God in my life now, and that changes a lot. But the wound is deep and I feel like I never get a chance to heal it.

Job, I think I have some inklings of how you healed, sort of. And I know how DnJ did. But how did you heal, HaWho? And anyone else here who feels healed? So far all I can think is that this is still horrible and heartbreaking but it's way less horrible than him living here.
Yes, of the many situations here, I have always thought ours were similar.

It is so amazing that you at getting at the root of that fear you have of him. Good stuff. You know, if you want, you can have your lawyer tell him that you only want to communicate through lawyers. Or, you can stop opening his emails. Hear me out on this. I also had a fear of seeing his emails in my inbox. They were so laced with anger in the beginning because he did not want me to get a lawyer. So I would send them to my sister and she would read them and tell me if there was anything worth responding to. She was funny about it. Usually she would skim it and say “nope, nothing worthwhile here. Let’s move on.”

As for how I began to heal, it began when he was still living with us. (You already started when he was living with you too.) I’m a walker and I walked and walked. I made playlists and walked to those. Then I was in church a lot praying for God not to leave me to rot in this situation. I posted a lot here and that was therapeutic. Job was a beacon to me as were so many others here. I read a lot about depression and midlife crisis and that helped me. It took many conversations with Job for me to understand I didn’t cause this and I could not fix it.

Then I returned to work and that was a biggie. My ex was always telling me I was incompetent and unattractive. He was quite ruthless in his criticisms of me. Returning to work was a huge piece of re-building my self esteem. Once we were divorcing, I started to tell people some of what he said about me and that helped me see how ridiculous his comments and criticisms were. I wish I had talked to people sooner rather than shouldering it myself. That just made me own the shame longer. I think when we show vulnerability people step in to give a hand up. We should talk more about our perceived failings. Don’t be afraid to tell people how you feel about the divorce label. Confide in trusted people and you will see you are not alone.

You will continue to forge your own path to healing in your own timeframe. You are on your way...
Good Morning Gerda

Really good posts from job and HaWho.

I do like reading about your reflections of the root of your fear. Well done!

Did you make butter tart slice this weekend? I sure hope so.

Originally Posted by Gerda
...snaked a toilet myself, boy that was fun.

I am sensing a rather large amount of sarcasm in those few words. smile

Originally Posted by Gerda
I am bored of what I am writing, it's all just blah-blah-blah, but I guess I just wanted to sit at this table with all of you for a few moments because even though I am less lonely with him gone than with him here, this is a strange new silence and I think in the silence I can hear my heart aching more than I could when I was feeling like a caged animal with H here.

Within that strange new silence is peace and contentment. Listen to it. Hear Gerda’s inner voice. She’s a pretty awesome gal!

(((Gerda)))

DnJ
No butter tart slice yet for me, and no peace. Or I get a few minutes but then endless onslaught of insane e-mails and already one visit from H unannounced, mercifully I was not there. He took photos of the whole place which was completely upside down in my first attempts to get his stuff out and start preparing the installation of a new door (I am dividing the apartment and renting it during the week as part of our guesthouse). He keeps sending endless totally insane e-mails to me and his lawyer and sometimes my lawyer about all the terms, his stuff, his problems with his rental and his schedule and his inability to store anything with no money but how he will hire a cleaning service or he will be back to clean the house and I should arrange a time for that, and how he can't commute to see D10 unless it's for a longer time but he can't do a longer time at the agreed upon times and most of all how he is concerned about how house looks not only because of the appraisal but because he is planning to be back in October if we have not settled since he "can't possibly afford" his sublet. He insisted on giving D10 an iPhone and when I said that I was not okay with a smartphone for a 10-year old but that I had bought her a flip phone and gave him the number, he just said he would be giving it to her anyway. He also explains that no one has to follow the "letter" of court orders until after the divorce is final and has long H-esque theories about why this is so.

I will not bore you with the ten or twelve pages of e-mails he sent except this last one, it's very short and so amazingly projecting. HaWho is right that it's better not to read them but I had to try to get him to commit to times to see D10 because she actually misses him though in between says she hates him.

And DnJ, I am making that butter tart slice and the one I can't spell soon and I am gonna post a video of me eating it on youtube. In fact, maybe I really will, GERDA IN REAL LIFE. : )

Here's the note, more later, reminders that he is crazy and there is nothing I can do are always welcome. Oh and by the way, they will have a little kitchen and living area, just tiny, and will use the whole place on weekends or when not rented during the week. I don't want to tell him the details for obvious reasons!

You are not allowed to alter our home without my permission, and likewise does it not strike you that you could be traumatize my kids by forcing them to live in ghetto conditions without a living room and a kitchen. Rent the entire duplex before doing what you are doing, hurtling the kids, is my guess. Think deep about it.
H showed up again this morning, to get a package. I wasn't home and he called me, wildly angry when I said he couldn't come to the house unannounced. Not to mention that this morning the guys were showing up to demo a wall for a new door so I can start renting, and he kept sending me e-mails about how I couldn't alter his house without his permission so thank god he was gone before they came.

I was really scared of him. Not physically but just in my soul. It's hard to explain but somehow what I hate most about facing him is facing that he hates me and that he thinks things about me that aren't true. I am scared of having to face his vision of me, in a way.

I got a little frantic and did not stay calm. I didn't scream at him but I told him I would call the police if he came there and that I had paid him 5K to move out, and he shouted that he would call the police and it's his house, etc.

What I hate most is I do not want to be that woman who says those things or does those things. I feel like he is able to make me be the thing he thinks I am.
Gerda,

Have your lawyer advise his lawyer that he cannot come to the house unannounced like that. You have held up your end of the agreement to pay him $5,000 to move out. Your lawyer needs to emphasize that if he continues to carry on like this and not follow the agreement, it will become null and void. Also, it may come down to you getting a restraining order against him for this nonsense. What exactly does he want from the house? If it's his belongings, then give him one drop dead date to come get all of his belongings or you will put them storage and give him the key and he can pay the monthly fee.

His problem, like many of them who are in crisis....they do not think that they have to follow agreements/rules, but that we need to do so.

His name may be on the deed, but he agreed to move out for a price. It is now suppose to be your safe haven. It won't be until the boundaries are set and followed. Don't respond to any of his emails unless they make sense. Do not threaten him with calling the police unless you are going to follow through and even then, I wouldn't tell him that you're going to do it unless he stops...just do it if he continues acting stupid.

I have no sympathy for people who continue to act the victim and monster because they aren't happy w/what they agreed to do.
I am going to ditto Job. This is the time to set boundaries and doing so secures your sanity.

No more coming over unannounced. No more coming in for inspections. Curb side pickup for kids. Do it and do it now. Best thing I ever did and Job helped me toe the line.

He wants a divorce that means you get to run your house your way. And that is that very freeing! It is worth every penny to write in these rules: no more coming over unannounced, curb side pick up, communicate via lawyers, and parallel parenting plan in place. Yours is like mine; he will want to control.

Put boundaries in place and you will secure your future.

Hard as this seems, trust me, you have been handed a gift - the future is yours!
Hello Gerda

I have been reading along. I have also been working and very busy, so no posts for a few days.

Job and HaWho have really hit the nail on the head, such good and wise advice.

Originally Posted by Gerda
What I hate most is I do not want to be that woman who says those things or does those things. I feel like he is able to make me be the thing he thinks I am.

What do I say about feelings? smile

Feelings are fleeting. Let them flit away.

Gerda this will pass. You know you are not what he says or thinks you are. I felt the same way in my situation. Some time and distance from him and things will look so much better and brighter. You will be amazed my dear friend.

Originally Posted by Gerda
And DnJ, I am making that butter tart slice and the one I can't spell...

LOL!

I was being pretty sophisticated when I typed Nanaimo Bar, which I had to google. smile I just usually call it chocolate slice. Haha.

Take care.

Oh, and remember H is crazy and there is nothing you can do about it.

DnJ
Good Morning Gerda

Another day starts anew
The fresh sun shining down on you

Whether the sky is cloudy or clear
A wonderful day is always quite near

For the true potential on this day of new
Is how it is faced and greeted by you

Reach towards your hopes and dreams
While walking in those golden sunbeams

Holding joy within your head and heart
Is a great way for the day to start

Another day start anew
I hope all is well, I’m thinking of you

DnJ
Well, I was just in church telling God how lonely I was and then came home to your poem. Thank you so much!!! Oh my gosh that cheered me up more than a butter tart slice!

Which, no, I haven't made yet. Why, you ask?

Well, on Thursday the guys started the job on my apartment to put in a new door so I can rent out part of it. Then I cracked open a molar -- I think I must be grinding my teeth, I wonder why.

Then on Thursday night, D10 got a 103 degree fever so I was up all night trying to work and deal with that and get rid of the fifty pounds of dust left by the workers and move out all H's extra crap into my side yard to cover with tarps lest it rain.

Then on Friday I went to emergency dentist, leaving sick D at home. They couldn't get it numb so I had to have like eight needles! Came back to workers and dust and rising fever with some rash. Rinse, repeat, esp with the all night tending of child with my own jaw quite angry about all those needles.

And then on Saturday with the guys still working and the dust and the first visitation from H with lots of insane back and forth becuase he refused to accept that she was sick or that I would not allow him to give her his old iPhone (and mind you, he is not giving me a penny of child support but managed to get a new iPhone?) -- when he brought her back, I realized that the rash was not a rash but CHICKEN POX.

(Oh and I am getting a little better at MLC. Rather than fight H about the phone, I took the iPhone and stuck it in a drawer and told D she can take it out once a day to text H or whatever else but that when she was with me she was using the flip phone I got her only.)

And what is also funny/not at all funny is that for the visit, I told H that she should just do something very quiet and stay out of the sun since she was sick with a high fever, so he took her somewhere on the train and walked around for a few hours, etc. And told her on the way back that she looked much better BECAUSE SHE HAD SPENT TIME IN THE SUN. She had probably double the pox she had before she left, so she did not look better at all, and I know it was not because of the sun but because she had chicken pox. Point is, that man is so obsessed with getting out of my controlling powers that he is literally seeing things in order to feel he is right.

So I have not made butter tart slice or nanananananiammooooononaimo. But I will.

((DnJ))
Hello Gerda

nanananananiammooooononaimo - lol

My phone probably added that to my dictionary. smile

My goodness you’ve had quite a time lately.

To bad you haven’t been able to eat any butter tart slice yet. I’ll describe it for you. That should help. It’s just like eating them. Well without the taste, smell, texture, sugary goodness. Ha ha. Hmmmm. Maybe this doesn’t help. smile

A light pastry bottom. Brown sugary syrup filling, smothering plump raisins. The top caramelized to a golden brown, the crystallized sugar covering the deep layer of sweet sugary raisin ambrosia. Biting into what could very well be the best snack in the world, one gets a rush of sweet. This jolt produces a rush, cheeks flush, breath inhales, vision brightens - sweet dessert at it finest.

Dang. Now I want some.

By the way, nice job with the cell phone. No point in fighting with H.

Hope D10 feels better soon. Chicken pox ain’t fun!

And needles ain’t much fun neither. Eight of them. My oh my. Gives me the heebie-jeebies just thinking about it.

Dust, chicken pox, fever, remodelling - I can’t figure out why you are grinding your teeth. JK (((Gerda))) Hang in there girl!

DnJ
Well, I think I am entering a period of grief.

It is so much better without H here, but with all the struggle to get this apartment ready to rent, and all the other above, there has been no peace and quiet -- just a lonely quiet and feeling totally overwhelmed.

Last night I just fell apart for a few hours of serious crying out to God. Just about the unbearable loneliness. This is a loneliness that has been with me since I was 14 years old, when my family fell apart and both of my own parents went bonkers (mom MLC, dad reacting badly, waves of awfulness across extended family that was before that very close). For a little while, when my H and I were close, I did not have it anymore, but really most of my life has been that way, feeling totally alone, and only now in the last five years do I have the grace of feeling that God is with me.

But the physical loneliness has become overwhelming now that H is out and I don't have to just simmer in my PTSD of his abuse. And trying to get this apartment ready all alone is just so hard!

Realizing that this is real, he really is divorcing me. And a horrible letter I got from MIL, which I will post here just to point out that MLC has a wide berth.

So I know this must be part of grief and there must be something past it. But right now I am low low low.

Here is the letter from MIL. I wrote to her because she stopped seeing us when MLC started, just totally stopped coming and sees my kids at most once a year (generally because I scrape together the money for plane tickets, twice even paying for H to come too, she has never helped me even with groceries on a visit since MLC started) while before that she was with us all the time. So since she is so disconnected and did not know, when I told her in Dec, that H had filed, I didn't know if she knew H had moved out. My letter was very loving and said that it was too hard for me to live with someone who was divorcing me but that I really loved her and hoped she knew I was the same girl she always knew even if she was hearing some things about me that probably weren't true, and that I hoped she would stay in our lives and that I would bring the kids to see her in the fall. I asked her to pray for our marriage and family and said that I was not planning to start a life with anyone else but would always believe restoration was possible. So I got this in return, and it shows you what trauma H had with that kind of hard heart but it was hard to take her hatred on top of everything, I naively thought like most in-laws they' be so glad not to be cut out after divorce. Also I have never left my kids with her alone at their house because my FIL is a nasty raging alcoholic with guns in the house (and who abused H throughout his childhood) and extreme racist views that he spouts literally all day, etc., so I like to be a buffer there. Also just because it's nice to be all together as a family, even with people like that! I have known her since I was 23 years old, I am 47 now. And she basically wrote to tell me that she doesn't want to see me ever again and would only see my kids if I was nowhere near.

Hi, Gerda, i have received your letter, and it is hard to respond. H doesn't share much with me, and i prefer it that way. You have both failed very badly, so many wrong decisions, both because your own preferences and desires. The time to fix your marriage and lifestyle, long passed. Many years ago, you two made a decision to live in the City instead of suburbs, this is the price you are now paying.
I can't and do not wish to be part of your lives full of self made disasters, and complications of all kinds. I hope and pray, that both of you find some peace apart, and bring your lives into some meaningful path. I feel very bad for the kids, they need time away from both of you too. S and D are old enough to travel, so if they wish to come and visit their grandparents when the school is over, I will pay for their tickets. I love them and would take care of them.
Sorry I have to be this blunt, but I can't deal with your problems. You are both on your own. Maybe some day, H will restore his relationship with the kids, and can bring them here. He is our flesh and blood, and I will love him always.
Sorry,
MIL


Onward, will try to put one foot in front of other and get this post-construction dust under control....
Holy cow, Gerda. I'm so very sorry that you got that letter. How awful.

I had major depression and PTSD and finally was healed after going through EMDR therapy. It was God-sent. Literally. With that and prayer (serious prayer) I am a new person.

I will pray, too, that you feel God's presence. I don't always so I remind myself that feelings are not the 'truth', they are feelings. They come and go.

I need to read more of your sitch, so I will do that as soon as I can come back on. I'm just so dang sorry that you had that response from your MIL. To be honest, from this view, it says far more about her than you. Maybe she believes that this is a boundary issue for her. After reading this post from you, I felt like I had to stop in and give you some support.
Gerda - So very sorry your MIL added to your burdens. Some people are incapable of offfering empathy. And she seems to think that blood over-rides even the worst behaviors. I do not agree with this. But, there it is.

I originally had so many words written out here for you to read, but nothing sounded quite right.

I continue to pray for you. Let the feelings of grief, sadness, rage, and loneliness wash over you and drain away. Take one moment, one hour, one day at a time. Take a few moments throughout the day just for yourself. And ask for help if you need it. For the work on the apartment, perhaps members of your church can step in for a work day and help out?

(((Gerda)))


Grace
Gerda,

I am sorry you were hit between the eyes w/a very unfeeling and blunt letter....but I am not surprised at all w/her response. She's not taking sides and going to let both of you figure things out for yourself. We always say that blood is thicker than water and no matter what her son does, she will always love him. She may not like what he does, but she will love him.

At least she's not disowned the kids and wants to see them over the summer. Many don't want to even do that when the "war of the roses" is going on.

Yes, you are grieving and you will have ups and downs, but you need to pull those boot straps tight and get angry about the way things have played out. Remember...anger helps us to move ahead. Try not to stay in the rabbit hole too long and remember, each time you feel very down, allow those feelings to wash over you and release them. They will help you heal as you walk the path.
I agree with Job,

Take it one day at a time

Remember isn't your fault, and God has a plan.

(((((Gerda)))))
Hello Gerda

I empathize with what you are feeling. A virtual DnJ (mantle sized) is all I can offer. A two armed hug, and an ear. I’m not there in person, more in sprit. I have found that sometimes people who are present are more absent than the absent and yet present person, if that makes any sense.

Originally Posted by Gerda
So I know this must be part of grief and there must be something past it. But right now I am low low low.

(((Gerda)))

Yes, there is something past all the grief. Something wonderful. It is quite a slog to get there, to get through what you have to walk through. In the dark low low low times remember it is so very worth all the effort.

I am sorry for the unbearable loneliness you are feeling. I remember how absurd it suddenly was for me - I was alone and had all the responsibilities, all of it. Kids, house, school, food, clothes, cars, on and on. Just feelings, they will pass, and they will fade. You know all this, but those feelings are something else aren’t they?

As for MIL:

Gerda, you can’t control anyone but yourself. MIL has made her choice, respect her right to choose, and let her go.

MIL’s held back rant about moving to the city is so reminiscent of my XW’s Mother’s displeasure of W and I moving to the country, instead of staying in the city. Your MIL is showing some of her hidden colours, she does sound a little controlling (and irrational) in that snippet of a letter.

Might just explain a bit of H’s behaviour, pure projection onto you, which should be directed at his parents. All that stuff of you controlling him, and all those run on big worded sentences. Projection of his feelings due to his parent’s treatment of him - IMHO.

And what kind of a grandma suggests that her grandkids need time way from their parents. What a crock! Do not pay any heed to this woman. Let her go. You can’t change her mind - she’ll have to come to that herself.

I’ll said it once more - pay MIL no heed.

- - - -

Gerda,

You are an awesome gal!

DnJ

- - - -

My letter is shorter. Blunt, true, and sincere. You can choose which letter you wish to “listen” to. Which you choose and will believe.

Keep putting one foot in front of the other, you’re getting there.

DnJ
Job, first of all, thank you for stopping in. You know I love to hear your wise words.

But what do you mean about anger? Anger is the slavery I am always trying to avoid! It makes me feel even worse when I get angry.

Boot straps I do understand, and you have no idea how often I remind myself about your admonitions to dig deeper, pull up the boot straps, etc.
97Hope, good to meet you and thank you so much for your kindness in stopping by. It meant a lot to me that a new friend was up in arms on my behalf -- especially because sometimes we standers get confused and forget that it's not about us. It sure helps sooth the sound have a stranger express that level of surprise at my MIL's hard heart.

I took a look at your thread and will visit soon with a thought or too.

Thank you!!!!
Grace, I am so curious now what all the words you deleted were! But the words that were left here were perfect. Your friendship is a real gift, thank you for that and for the prayers and for the comfort.

I love your idea of friends coming over for a barn-raising, apartment-style. I don't have anyone like that except my bets friend who lives quite far away. Sadly where I live, church communities like that are rare. I am part of a church community in my parish but they are very into faith and study and not so into coming over to help out. In fact that realization has led me to step back from that community. And in my parishes (I go to two), I know people but no one like. And a lot of older Italian ladies who I should be helping!

Love to you, Grace. You have come so far!
Marina, it is a real pick-me-up to hear from you. I think of you often and hope you are getting some comfort from God, your sitch sounds so very hard. Thank you for the encouragement. Lots of love to you and the trios.
DnJ, you are one good cheerer-upper. Your words, as usual, meant so much to me, brought a smile, a tear, a sigh of relief. I especially liked your offering another letter I could believe more.

And also you are spot on with your psychoanalysis of the projection. I have had this really uncomfortable feeling since 2013 that H thinks I am his mom and is finally getting the chance to tell her a piece of his mind and show her what he is made of. I am a very small brunette with no accent and his mom is a very overweight blond lady with a thick accent, and clearly our personalities could not be more different, but there is no way to break through the rather thick MLC eyeglasses to wave, "Wait! It's me! Don't shoot!"

I think for that long letter you deserve a fresh plate of nananananaiiimmooooooo bars, and I am almost done with the rentable side of the apartment job (on the other side of the wall it is mayhem), so I hope to bake some this weekend in time for a visit from my dad (Father's Day here in ye olde States). I will leave some on the mantle for you. With coffee, not tea, I promise. And a jug of extra-fat half and half -- whole and whole?

I am in a better place, as you can probably tell. But simmering under is all the rest, so I will read your letter a couple hundred times.
One of the steps to grieving is anger. It is one of the same steps for MLC. For many of the LBS, the step of anger helps them to move forward and not get stuck in the other steps of grieving. In your case, I would be angry over just how much you have endured over the years and now...you are redoing your place for a renter. I would be angry at so many curve balls...but at the end of the day, I would be thankful to have experienced that emotion and know that I can handle anything that God throws at me. For me, during the early days, anger helped me to move forward and not get stuck in the other steps of grieving.

Anger is not necessarily a bad thing...it helps to experience those pent up emotions and rid ourselves of them doing things that we would normally delay doing. In your case, it could help you w/cleaning out and packing up your h's things, the remodel, gardening (if you have a garden) or even power walking. Use that emotion to help you get to the other side. I am not saying to use it against anyone...but towards something you have delayed doing. Trust me, beating the heck out of a pillow is far better than having those pent up feelings.
Hi Gerda!

I struggled with terrible anger for a long time and then felt guilt/shame when I acted out in anger. Well-meaning people from my church had me convinced that my anger was the sin.
But the truth is "IN your anger, do not sin" Anger is an emotion we were created with. Our creator has been angry. The emotion itself certainly isn't sinful. It's an emotion!! It's what we do with it.

Sometimes getting angry causes us to respond in appropriate ways to something that is unacceptable. Don't fear anger, just allow yourself to feel whatever you are feeling and CHOOSE your response. There is freedom in that. I don't want to come across as preachy, but I spent a long time judging myself for my emotions, and scared of being angry. I realized I'm not the hulk, I can control myself and this process has provided peace in my life.

Well, for the grand finale of this thread, I will post the letter I got from H this morning. I am supposed to come up with 3K for him and I have only made 500 on the rentals so far, and have already posted about all the craziness I went through. He wrote to me demanding his money via transfer because of traveling and also I got a text from the mom of D10's best friend saying that D10 has been talking about how much her dad criticizes me and how much it upsets her, so I decided, not for engaging with H but only to have in writing (for court) that I tried to explain what is going on, I wrote to him to explain all that is happening with expenses and the kids' emotional distress, etc. I also said that he should not respond as I would turn any future conversation to lawyers. And this is what I got this morning. Before I opened my e-mail, I gave myself a little speech that a terrible e-mail would be there but that my goal in writing to him was a court strategy and not anything I needed to worry about on a personal level. And this kind of worked. I haven't written back to the wonderful posts from Hope and Job about anger -- but I will say that I had huge amounts of rage bottled up inside since I was 14 years old, and that when H first started to change, a couple years before BD, it started to come out a little bit. And when I got cancer and saw the image of the tumor, I thought instantly, "That's rage." And when I became a Christian, the rage started to fade away. When it comes now, I try to give it to God. The weight of judgment is too heavy for me, too crushing. So I am not sure about how the stage of anger can play into it for me. I need a clear head to strategize to dig out of this mess and I don't want any more tumors but I see what you are saying and am thinking about it!

Here is the letter. Enjoy!

Gerdie (he uses the cute version of my name on most e-mails),

I have been listening to plaintive-tragic violins of this email (with all of its lists and motifs and themes) for two decades, and I wish not to listen to these fatalist violins any longer. That is, I won't listen to them any longer.

The house upstate (according to three different specs I asked brokers for) is worth
(number that is double what I think it is worth) and the house downstate can fetch (number that is 1.5 times what I think it is worth but appraisals will tell) easily. The price of the Guesthouse business is to be determined.

Gerdie, consider the outlook, the worldview that your desire to cling to both properties and the business (versus monetize both) carries with it your readiness to deadlock and enchain the H family (my kids) to a desecrate (and arguably maladaptive and/or dysfunctional) reality of sub-poverty and ceaseless ghettoization— whilst anyone can clearly see that -- in view of the emergency existential and financial conditions that have been swarming around us for a solid decade now as we run like fugitives from banks, creditors, state, city and federal collection agencies -- the alternative approach to life (monetizing our hard-won shared resources in the direction of "an abundant life" of living and loving) is not just a convenient alternative but an absolute necessity.

In my opinion and according to the world-view I live by (and I am not telling you to agree or to live by it), the happiness, the peace, the lighthearted joy that attach to an "Abundant" life (in contrast to a life of "Poverty"— in both its spiritual and material manifestations) are a happiness, peace, a lighthearted joy that are not a priori "determined," they are not a priori an un-rewritable existential verdict: they are, rather, "a choice" plain and simple: they are a free clear-headed, right-headed CHOICE available to you and I and available to all humans everywhere and in any epoch of history.

And yes, likewise, the alternative, the dread, the gloom, all proclivities for ghettoization that attach to a life of "Poverty" (in contrast to an "Abundant" life — again, in both its spiritual and material manifestations) is not (in my opinion) an a priori un-rewritable existential verdict: spiritual and material "Poverty," rather, are, again, first and foremost an interior solemn "choice" plain and simple: a free clear-headed, right-headed choice available to us and available to all humans everywhere and in any epoch of history.

I won't listen to the tragic (fatalist) violins of the latter worldview issuing from you any longer — because I personally believe they are the tragic violins of an interior worldview known by philosophers interrelatedly as both determinism and fatalism, and which are not my interior worldview at all.

Rather, I will exercise (what I believe is a God-given capacity) for free-choice in ways that in a nano-second cuts the umbilical chord to spiritual and material Poverty, to the very ghettoizing gestalt to which (I believe) we CHOOSE to umbilical chord ourselves: in other words, I will exercise (what I believe is a God-given capacity) for free-choice to make my own alternative music about a peace, a joy, a happiness that attach to an abundant life in both its spiritual and material manifestations.

I am finished listening to dark music. I am free to make and to listen to another kind of music.
Garda, I'm sorry that you are still wrapped up in this craziness, but his true colors are showing. He seems to be using big words to justify that he beats to the worlds views and that your spiritual/religious views are a bunch of bs. Again, I'm sorry that you are still in this marathon of batchitcrazy, but there is no reason to try and make sense of the crazy. We can never truly understand what is going on in their heads.
Good God almighty......what a load of utter crap he spews.

I have concluded, I’m too thick to understand what the H2ll he writes and, do you know what, I’m glad.

It’s hard work reading it let alone living with it. You, my dear Gerda, is well rid.

You are a different Gerda now, a very much stronger lady. You can’t help him....he’s too far gone in that whirlwind that is his mind.

Feel sorry for him, and thank your God that you aren’t there.

Peace to you and you’re children (((cwtch for you all)))
Hello Gerda

What a letter!

To have that swirling around in his head. His world view, his choices, his inner dialog - confused.

Pay the agreed settlement amount and let that man go. He has a whole lot of figuring out to do. I know you know this, just encouraging and assuring.

I was wondering what your views of anger would be. My anger stage was atypical, perhaps your’s is as well.

Hoping you have a great day.

DnJ
Gerda,

If I were in your shoes, I would cease trying to communicate w/him about anything except the children. Evidently he is living in La La Land whereby the fairies sprinkle fairy dust and poof! All financial issues are gone.

You have gone above and beyond trying to reason w/someone who is definitely not rational at all. Again, please stop trying to reason w/him....you can't. The best you can do is pay the man off and let him go totally.
Wow. The e-mail is bizarre. He is not in his right mind. I had to read it 3 times! I'm so sorry you have to deal with this person. I agree with Job. I would only contact him about the kids, and then maybe only through the attorney. This man is not in his right mind, as I'm sure you know since you lived with him until recently.

(((Gerda))))

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Gerda's Prayer Takes the Form of Angels
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