Initial thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2823089&page=1Summary
EA begins in early 2018. W drops bomb in July, we reconcile in Sept, I discover EA still intact in Oct, we become "friends". Over the past weekend I had PI follow her and have audio and video of EA turned PA (making out).
I leave house sun, return mon and she says she wants to end marriage. I spell put terms.
Now facing D. We are not talking, she welcomed me into the guest room and has no problem with me staying there.
House on market, realtor ok with dropping to minimum price to get out of it. Says it will prob sell at right price even in slow season.
Part of me wants to go all out (I would likely be able to get full custody). Another part wants to go dark, stay in the background and see what happens.
I discover EA still intact in Oct, we become "friends".
WTF? Why do you want to be friends with a cheater?
We are not talking, she welcomed me into the guest room and has no problem with me staying there.
WTF? Why are you staying in the guestroom. Why are you not in the master bedroom?
You say you spelled out the terms of the D. What are they?
You are exhibiting weak and submissive behavior which will get you zero respect from your W who is in an affair. How can you change that immediately?
I'm not friends with her. She suggested that we remain friends if we get D. I told her no way. I said She would always be mother to my kids. As for us, she will be my wife or she will be nothing to me. "Friends" is what she referred to us after taking a step back.
My attorney suggested I not ruffle any feathers with regards to bedrooms. If she becomes more unstable she can file temp orders and have me removed from the house. I have to play things carefully.
As for terms. I told her.
I'm not discussing details, that's for our attorneys. I am calling realtor in the morning and selling house for rock bottom price. I will not pursue you and you will respect my space and I will respect yours. I will not talk to you but we will try and get along in front of the children.
I also moved significant amount of money from joint checking to personal account. No more nails, hair, bikini waxes, clothes to fund her affair. I also told her not to use the truck I pay for to have her affair. She can used the smokey, old beater he drives if she wants to %#&# him.
My thoughts are this behavior will likely drive her toward him and away from me but at this point I don't care.
Good for you Hamburg! It's funny when they say they want to be friends yet treat us horribly. My H doesn't even giving a polite greeting, I have to initiate the conversation or nothing is said. I gave up and don't bother talking to him unless it's important or about our son.
Friends don't treat others the way these spouses treat us and I'm tired of it. Good for you for being strong and sticking to your guns.
You are getting a lot of one kind of advice here, and that may be the advice you want. If you want to think of this in another way and are a Christian, I recommend rejoice ministries. I'm not saying not to go dark, that may be what is needed right now. But there is a way to keep peace in your own heart and not become consumed by bitterness or anger that will only limit your own potential for growth. Your marriage may be dead now but resurrection may be possible down the line. And either way, you want to find peace. DnJ and Gordie's threads might also provide some good food for thought.
You appear to be very volatile (completely understandable). Very up and down (also understandable). Give yourself some time and space to think through this and make a calm, rational choice for you and your children. Put on your doctor /objective hat and view this from a little more distance. Often the hard lines we draw in the abstract become a little fuzzier as our feet near them. Reread Gordie's thread again and again. His wife was bloody awful and we all wanted him to run for the hills. Turns out she was just a woman in crisis who needed to really feel the loss of everything to understand its worth. Reread Irish's thread. His ex is bloody awful and looks like she always will be. Irish has an incredible relationship with his girls and has shown the kind of compassion that any woman would cherish in a mate. Reread DnJ, a story in progress, but a man who makes calm, considered, compassionate decisions. Regardless of the outcome. I think you want to be one of those guys and not one who burns her down because he can.
That is everyone. All of my doctor friends tell me to burn her to the ground. All my non doctor friends tell to wait and hope for her to come to her senses. I am giving the week off from any decisions, going back to work for 9 days straight and giving time and space. I am not speaking to her at all. No calls, texts, etc...
The W in the private investigator tapes is relentless and aggressively pursuing a loser. My attorney made me listen to entire video to make sure there is not a plot to harm or kill me (I never thought of that). This OM is seedy and dangerous. Arrested for domestic assault a few years ago. She even spent 15 minutes pleading why to him she's not a liar/bad person and begging him to tell her she's not. He didn't respond to her. She begged him to pick her up and felt comfortable in his arms (like a little girl would). She seems in full replay round 2 and must need some validation.The W I see at home seems to have some remorse and is very scared. She is planning for the worst (no job and no place to live after this house sells) and may turn around but I need to prepare for the worst as well. I feel my love slipping away but feel very sorry for her.
Made meeting with attorney in late Nov to prevent me from making a decision based on emotion.
To summarize
Brain: burn her to the ground and inflict as much suffering as possible. What if we reconcile and this happens again in 3 months or 5 years? Move on and find someone who appreciates me for who I am. Is the relationship i want one where I'm lied to and have to hire PI to ensure what's happening? Do my children need an unstable figure who snaps at them every 30 minutes, and can't do 2nd grade homework without melting down? I have to get tested for STDs now due to this. That is unacceptable.
Heart: this is not the woman I fell in love with nor the woman I knew 2 years ago. She is in a crisis and is hurting badly. Her family is extremely concerned about her. I fear she may harm herself or the kids when she spirals downward. She is troubled. .
Father: be kind and considerate to the woman who brought my children into being, who will always be their mother, and whose health and happiness will have a bearing on my children for the rest of their lives.
Father: be kind and considerate to the woman who brought my children into being, who will always be their mother, and whose health and happiness will have a bearing on my children for the rest of their lives.
Yes this too. No matter what happens I want her to get the help she needs. She has mentioned depression throughout the years but refuses to talk to a professional about it.
H
there is a lot to deal with here
One main point above the others may be to protect the kids-
If he is a loser and has a history of domestic issues -- you have to think about the kids
The M may be over, but the impact of all this on the kids can be handled for their highest and best good for them
This will have to come from you
as usually the MLCer is a terrible parent
They will put young children in harms way to pursue their fantasy life
they usually always pick losers-This is not unusual
MY XH chose his secretary, 14 years younger, prescription addict/ psych issues
together they hit the lowest of bottoms-
He lost every single thing he had-and he had a lot at one point-
My kids Never met her-and both my kids are doing well
You may need to put some focus on the best strategies to keep kids safe
they are too young to protect themselves
Glad you transferred the money and watch all credit cards
they will rack up debt any way they can with no thought of the future
Thanks. Kids will be protected. Attorney said at a minimum I will get 50/50 and restraining order. Might get full custody based on history of him being around kids against my wishes.
From you MLC experts, if there is change of heart from her how do I know it's genuine? I absolutely do not trust her.
Hamburg,
It is going to be many months before she settles down. The only way that you will know if her change of heart is genuine is if she is consistent. Always try to remember...actions speak louder than words. Consistency is what you will need to look for.
Well unfortunately those months will likely see demise of the M.
I've heard the A will likely soar and then die off but will likely be too late. Thankfully I am mentally much stronger than in replay part 1.
Hamburg, you have to decide what is right for you. That is the bottom line. I understand the feeling of betrayal, trust me, but remember that you made a commitment to her for better or worse/for sickness or health...let me say that this is the worst and she is sick. As a medical professional I know that you would take care of her if she had cancer. We would ride out the storm with them thru any health issues.
I won't tell you what to do, because that is your choice, but just know that there are a ton of us here going thru the same BS you are going thru and we will have your back either way.
Sometimes I think to myself the clarity will come soon. Just as I started to lose hope during replay 1 she gained clarity about her counseling, her contribution to the situation and then we reconciled..... for a month. . This was after heavy pursuit and intense reconnecting. She snapped in an instant and we became partial lovers, then friends, then not really even talking. I see the withdraw and checking out she had shortly before the bomb during replay 1. I am mentally able to handle it now and everything that has happened is out now. I think about her moving on and I really dont care.
When I'm angry I want to fry her. When I am happy am am indifferent.
SBJ is right. You and only you can decide when you have had enough. We ask that posters not make decisions when they are angry because those decisions may not be the ones that you will have wanted to make once you calm down.
BTW, I know the feeling about wanting to fry her when you are angry. I had some "killer" thoughts when I was going thru what you are at the moment. I was the happiest when I didn't have to deal w/my xh's phone calls, emails, stupid stuff he would put in the mailbox and the one that topped all of this was the his very, very stupid lawyer who couldn't find her way out of a wet paper bag with a flashlight.
The best thing you can do is sit quietly and allow the answers to reveal themselves. Yes, you may be ready to move ahead w/the divorce, but all I ask is that you make sure that you've got all of your bases covered. Again, do what is right for you when you are ready. We are here for you no matter what decision you make.
It's hard being home with the her. We were friendly and played board games with the kids. She kept staring at me in a p!ssed/sad way. I'm exhausted from work so hard to stay upbeat but I am. She took her truck to the shop and has a loaner. I suspect she is having then look for an audio bug or gps tracker AND today was when she was to meet OM for another round of whatever they're doing....so she could remain incognito.
It kills me inside to look at her.
Hang in there. Your strength and understanding are exceptional.
When it comes down to it, this is your life and your choices to make.
Everyone has an opinion on what you should do and how you should do it regarding your M. But it is you that must be able to live with those choices, it is your M and your family.
Follow your heart but make sure to check in with your mind so you aren't making emotional decisions. (just like you did regarding the attorney meeting)
Friends and family may have good intentions but if they don't understand the complexity and the classic behaviours of MLC they really cant give advice that is relevant. The lies, obsession with appearance, stealing, manipulating, violent outburst, the affair, sexual promiscuity, addictions/alcohol use/gambling, abandonment, immaturity; pretty much all replay behaviour seems like the marriage is completely over and one should walk away, but, its so out of character you know there must be more to it. They just see the horrible way you are being treated and don't realize there is a wild storm under the surface causing it. Its up to you whether you can find forgiveness for these things, no one else. Never let anyone judge you as a doormat for extending understanding and unconditional love to your W in Crisis. It takes strength and integrity to endure.
You continue to impress me Hamburg, continued prayers for you and yours.
So ended up having a talk to break the ice. She went on and on about being unhappy for years and how the M is over and she will see who she wants to see (TX does not have legal separation, you're either married or divorced) She even thought we could get D filed quickly and live together after that. I laughed. I told her im looking forward to moving on and I dont love her anymore. She began to cry.
She threatened to file temp orders to remove me from house and pay temp child support and spousal maintenance.....prob on the magnitude of 5-6k per month in addition to our already stressful financial situation. .
Her demands were that I stop tracking her (which I'm not) and put money back in bank account.
She agreed to not sleep with OM (swears she hasnt) but will continue to meet him on occasion for "hanging out" because he's a friend. Says she met him today and nothing happened. I informed her they are not just friends.
I dont know how to play this. She's going to do whatever she wants no matter what I do or say. If I stay in house I will end up saving money and shes sure to test the waters to see if I'm tracking. Moving money back is approving of her affair and I'm not ok with that. BUT, as above she will do whatever she wants regardless. Being forced to move out from temp orders also hinders my chances for custody I want. She wanted to discuss custody and I wouldn't.
So choices are:
1. move money and stop "tracking" . Stay in house, be with kids, possibly secure my custody, not pay support.
2. Wait for her to file temp orders, move out, potentially lose out on fair custody, pay out the wazoo
3. Refuse, tell her she's married and I will continue to build my case of infidelity and I will not financially support her affair, probably prompting #2 above.
In any case I'm sure the A will continue and I have to choose the lesser evil here. In the end #3 seems like the best choice to law down the law but #1 seems best for the greatest end result.
Ah yes - the p!ssed/sad look. I remember that well. Also the disgust.
To flip this over, "she's not the boss of you". As far as I can tell you are doing nothing illegal. While you may be controlling access to certain marital assets you aren't dissipating them.
This is where you need to get legal advice. Don't divide anything up, nor agree to anything prior to that.
The next while will probably be tough as you can expect tantrums and manipulation. Know where your buttons are and cover them.
I already got legal advice and the bank account thing is ok for me to do. If something is late or payment missed a judge may not like that though.
Her behavior is exactly as replay round 1 with 30% the intensity. Shes never been happy, I am a messy person, I forget things. Basically it is too late to make up for the emotional support I lacked for 10 years.
Also, she feels no remorse for what she is doing because she checked out and we have D on file. She is only sorry that it hurts me.
Hello Hamburg
The breaking the ice and talking did provide you a wealth of information and her intentions. Why did you not discuss custody? She wants too, you would learn about her intentions, you are not agreeing to anything just by discussing. Btw, you could really use that knowledge of what she is envisioning as to future custody, better to find out now than further down the road, where it is less likely and much more difficult to steer things to a better outcome.
You are correct, she is going to do what she wants to do, just as she stated. And as for the OM and her promise to not sleep with him. Remember some very true advice - don’t believe anything they tell you, and only half of what they do.
She might have actually meant that when she said it. Later? Who knows. An MLCer is in a compete emotional storm and able to justify anything, and will seek whatever mixed up, cooked up, made up, or f___ed up idea that will promote their plans or vision.
You only control you.
So to your choices.
You list three. There are many more. You always have choices.
However, I know you are seeking input, so:
Stay in house, discuss custody, gather information, seek L advice, get financially organized you do not deserve to be gutted like a fish due to her behaviour, protect you and kids.
If she is adamantly seeking to leave, then let her. It may behoove you to help with the heavy lifting, to gain better custody or financial arrangements - that is a choice for you to decide. Generally, the advice is let them do all the heavy lifting - there are times when that may be less diserable. Only you can know which one is for you.
Try to make decisions when you are in that place of indifference rather than the I want to fry her times. Along with her, you and your kids have to live with these decisions too.
DnJ
she wants full custody as well and has stated it. I slept on it and know that she is in crazy land. I want full custody but would settle for 50/50 plus restraining order for OM. I dont want her to know my intentions because it would mean immediate temp orders. she told me she already fears i will do something vindictive but she knows I have a case too. Protecting my kids from scum is doing what's best for them, but in her mind she doesnt see it that way. I have to play any move very carefully.
Yes tough situation
DNJ and the others gave good advice, and I agree with your intention to protect the kids
I had to fight for mine during negotiations and D as I did not want my children then 5 and 11 subject to OW
Once I figured out they were both using alcohol and prescription drugs, I fought harder
I had an excellent attorney and my kids were my top priority
MY XH finally gave up and I think many MLCers do put up an initial fight then give up when the going gets too tough
they only want to pursue their Fantasy relationship and new life
and they get worse after the initial phase of replay..
from my experience they go further down
some continue to reach for their bottom years later or some never-
MY XH also lied about his A-constantly he lied- denying any OW
I did not track him until later.
I finally found a few things leading to her name and finding out about her-a real loser as well
Interesting the only concern she seems to have is being tracked-and meeting up with the loser
they enjoy the secrecy of the new forbidden love--it must be a real high for them
Once out in the open it isn't as exciting
telling her NOT to meet him or talking about his characteristics as a loser-might make her want to meet him more
sorry for your pain -but you are doing well
hang in
Peace is correct...the more you talk to her about the OM and telling her not to meet him, the more she will do it, i.e., just like kids...the more you say no, the more they will test the boundaries. The less you say about him, the better.
The high they get from keeping secrets and the paranoia that we are tracking them is unbelievable. They all think that we have nothing better to do than keep tabs on their every move. Once the affair comes to light, it's not quite as much fun for them.
The best thing you can do is keep the info you get from your lawyer to yourself and do not share it w/your wife. Keep the focus on you and your children and leave her to her fantasy world.
So now that this is out of the bag it won't be as exciting for them? Shes willing to go to lunch and be seen in public, which I cannot believe a married woman would do.
In her mind, the marriage has been over for a long time. Her journey started approximately 18-24 months before she dropped the bomb on you. She's light years ahead of you in detaching and moving on w/her life. Yes, she made some gestures of wanting to be there for you...but she went right back into the tunnel.
I am sure that if she were not in crisis she would frown upon a married woman flaunting her "new man" out in public before the ink was dry on the divorce paperwork. However, she's not that woman now. In fact she's about 16. You can't put your finger on what she will or will not do at any time. Emotions are fully charged during the crisis.
Keep the focus on you!
It is amazing how the word "tunnel" is used. There are so many things happening again that I have not seen since replay round 1, though now about 30% the intensity. It is truly like she is trapped in a cyclical tunnel.
Hamburg, something that I keep noticing on your thread is that you are referring to stages of MLC as if she has already gone through one. Didn't this whole thing just start? I see you are extremely upset and your mind is racing. I think you are seeing her first steps into the tunnel as a series of stages. I know you have heard this before, but this is not something that happens over a few months. It takes YEARS. My H went through several years of hardcore replay, then a year of seeming to come out of it, and then last year he rebombed me and started over -- his second round, in year five since BD 1, has included filing for D.
I am a little unusual on this board because I am a hardcore stander. I see my marriage as a covenant with God, no matter what my H does. I plan to continue standing no matter what he does, including divorcing me. I only say that to point out that there are many possible responses to a spouse's MLC. You don't have to do what they say you have to do.
I think you have to make a choice to either really understand and study MLC and take twenty steps back and start working on yourself and on detachment; or you have to follow what people outside of MLC world think and take her words at face value. I don't think you should do the latter, as her words mean almost nothing right now.. You can't judge anything she says or does if you want to accept that this is MLC. She is a teenager right now. She will be a teenager for possibly years. The sooner you step back from her, the sooner you can start healing yourself, no matter what she does. I wouldn't make any decisions about her or your marriage for a long while.
Is it possible for you to mark your calendar for six months or a year from today and wait until that time to think about what you want to do about this? Can you see it as a sort of a discipline, where you can learn strategies to stop your mind from focusing on her for those six months or a year? A DB coach can help if you are not going the religious route. Can you just try to live your life detached until then and let her spiral without studying her so much? I know exactly how you feel, we have all been there. I am on year six, and I just worry about you because you seem very focused on her andI know that won't work, having been there too.
Thanks. I started to detach about a month ago and she accused me of having an affair, asking where I was going, etc... today, she got mad at me today because she said hello and I did not respond.
She seems pretty certain she wants D but I am going to let her make the first move with regards to orders (we already filed in july). I also see M as a commitment until death do us part. She has some stalling techniques, especially with finding a job, but I can't help but feel being used for finances and a nice home. I have grown a tremendous amount in the past 4 months and find myself caring less and less about the situation. Sometimes I think the only way she will see the light is if we get D and her world crashes around her.
Good Morning Hamburg
Gerda has given you some excellent advice. You need to step back, focus on you, and let W do what it is she needs to do. And yes some MLCers have to go all the way to divorce and burn their entire life down around themselves, in hopes that they may wake up - and even then some don’t. My own W is on such a path, so much destruction.
Keep working on yourself. I am glad you have made such strides in your growth over the previous 4 months, keep at it - it is very much worth it. You are worth it, worth all that hard work. Don’t forget who you are really doing it for - You!
While agitated is not the time to make long term plans. Do what you need to do to protect you and kids, to ensure your future. Then step back, give her space and time, and allow yourself to settle. Work on your healing, and then you can make those long term plans and decisions. I guarantee things will look a whole lot different to you then, and we will have a much different conversation.
You know this is a marathon, for you and her. It helps to have a heading, a general idea on where to go, a beacon to find you way out of the dark. My personal heading was, and still is, kindness, compassion, and forgiveness. I am sure everyone would want that peace, it is what we are striving for. So lock that in, keep that long term ideal in mind. When you act, respond, decide - work towards your goals. They are surprising closer than you might realize, we just keep pushing them back.
To be honest and fair, there will be times when necessary actions or decisions will be less desirable, down right ugly and horrible. They are necessary and you can still be kind and compassionate in the performance of them. Stick to the higher road, when all this is over, no matter what happens, you will be so grateful you did.
DnJ
Your wife is in the early stages of replay. Replay may take years to work through. She will question/doubt herself about what she is doing and then still do those things because she feels she has to. I am going to suggest that you try to put the "stages of MLC" out of your mind for a while. Those stages are nothing more than a guideline to help you better understand some of the actions that they exhibit
She is going to do whatever she needs to do to take away the pain, i.e., it could be drinking, drugs, shopping until she drops, gambling, exercising, and OM. She will try many things along the way and when one thing doesn't work, she'll try something else.
She doesn't know what she wants and yes, she is going to do a whole lot of projecting on to you. For example, if you don't tell her who you are meeting up with, she will accuse you of having an affair, etc. Don't buy into her drama. Leave her to her own mess.
You didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her. She has to do that and she will in her own time, which is very slow.
Read as much as you can about depression (the main ingredient of MLC) and MLC. Ignore the timelines because each person is unique, therefore their crisis will be unique.
Keep the focus on you and dig deeper for patience!
BTW, why aren't you sleeping in the Master Bedroom? If she's not happy, she should have been the one to move out of that room.
For the bedroom thing, attorney advised me not to ruffle unnecessary feathers because she can file for temporary orders which hit me hard financially.
She came home at 3am. I was up most of the night tossing and turning.
I knocked on her door around 645 to ensure she was home so I could leave for work (has a loaner vehicle and not parking in garage and i cannot see driveway without going outside).
She said i am not her parent and dont need to check up on her. I told her my intentions.
She then said i came home earlier and didn't say hello to her and that set her off.
Then I stupidly asked if the was with OM and she denied. She said she never asks who I am with and I reminded her she does this on a daily basis.
She asked why didn't I text her during the night if I was concerned. I said we need space. I also reminded her we would extend the courtesy to let one another know if we would not be home when the other gets home with the kids. Just a yes or no, not specific times or anything else.
I said I am glad she had some time to herself. She reminded me I left for 2 days without mentioning whereabouts. I told her I just found out she is cheating on me and I needed time. She said she is not cheating and the M is over.i said we will see what a judge thinks about it and walked out.
Not my best of moments but during replay 1 she begged me to remove infidelity as the reason for divorce and turned a corner when she suspected I was going after kids. I did not have solid proof of infidelity then but I do now. She does not know what this is though.
I thought her being out all night would slow down but it has happened twice in the past week. It is a school holiday so perhaps it will slow next week. It does bother me, some concern of who she is with but also in terms of her safety. She has never been one to stay out late.
We will see what the next few days brings. During replay 1 she swore she would file temp orders but never did, even during heated moments. We also fought like cats and dogs during replay 1 for about 3 weeks and then things calmed. It's strange because I have expectations of how this will go based on the past but it is terribly unpredictable. The only difference now is that I am not pursuing her anymore.
As for what set her off. I did say hello back but I guess she did not hear me.
Hi
If you can stand still for a while and work on just you-
work on the relationship with your kids
work on healing your pain
work on forgiving her and the loss of the old M
watch the situation
watch her actions
put limits on the funds-and watch because they do spend-
maybe be supportive, cordial accepting for now
let her go-but work on you
more will be revealed later
some people stand for longer than others
many stand until we see no further hope-
some stand for ever
anyway you choose is ok
we each have a choice based on our specific situation
but to stand back for a year or 2 is a good option
because it gives you time to reflect
there is no where really to go anyway
except within to heal
so what does it matter where she is or where you are
practice being accepting detaching and letting go-
difficult yes--but it is the higher road
takes more patience than many of us care to practice
that will take a while-but it will set you up for a more peaceful and fulfilled life
with or without her-
I agree w/Peace...you have to try to sit quietly and allow things to progress w/her. You need to keep the focus on you and your children.
I noticed she stated that you aren't her parent and yet, she wondered why you didn't text her. She is looking at you as a father figure and she is saying one thing and then something else.
Please, please stop talking to her about the OM. You are doing nothing more than pushing them closer together by doing this. The less you bring him up, the better. He is a band aid to her pain right now. He is probably fun, has no responsibilities and is listening to her tales of woe. I know it's difficult, but he not worth your aggravation at the moment. You've got to turn your focus on to your kids because they need you now more than ever.
Dig deeper for patience. If you stop and really listen to what she's saying, she just may tell you something about herself and what she's dealing with. We all have had to learn and dig deeper for patience, compassion and listening without offering advice to our crisis people. We are fixers and that is another area that we all need to work on...we can't fix them.
Thanks. I know what she feels based on her words and actions. She still wants me to say hello, have wine with her on the patio and be her friend. She started smoking again and invited me out the other night to join her. It seems her thoughts of me having an A thrusted her (poor choice of words I know) toward him. I heard her crying and begging him to tell her she's not a bad person. Then making out/ ILY began during a crying spell. It is so unhealthy. She had a terrible night and says me not saying hello threw her into a frenzy yesterday. 2 nights ago I told her I fell out of love with her and understand how she feels about me and she began to cry.
I have been working on myself in many ways. More recently I have reconnected with friends and see them frequently. I took a few days off from the kids but took then out last night and had a good time. I plan on taking then out tomorrow night as well. I haven't shed a tear in weeks and am upbeat most of the time.
This is a difficult process. Part of me wants to sit with her, have wine and talk but another part wants to completely detach. But detachment led to her thinking I am having an A and not saying hello spurs craziness (I did see her face after that and she was very upset). I cannot seem to find a happy medium here.
Hamburg
I support you no matter what
You are in the worst of it
And there are no rules because only you know all the details
We all say focus on you and the kids because that is what works
Whether or not you can be friends while she is with OM
That is up to you
I could not do that because it hurt too much and I told my w that
She wanted to tell me all about him and introduce him to me like I was her father
I said I wanted to know nothing about him nor ever meet him
She envisioned we would all be friends
The fact I would not play along pissed her off
So better for you to just focus on you and the kids
Let her go not in a vindictive way but just that you have much better things to do than get caught up in her circus
And you do
Hamburg
I support you no matter what
You are in the worst of it
And there are no rules because only you know all the details
We all say focus on you and the kids because that is what works
Whether or not you can be friends while she is with OM
That is up to you
I could not do that because it hurt too much and I told my w that
She wanted to tell me all about him and introduce him to me like I was her father
I said I wanted to know nothing about him nor ever meet him
She envisioned we would all be friends
The fact I would not play along pissed her off
So better for you to just focus on you and the kids
Let her go not in a vindictive way but just that you have much better things to do than get caught up in her circus
And you do
That sounds terrible. I cannot understand the mentality of these folks. How did your situation end up?
You can't rationalize with someone who is irrational and bouncing off the walls. That is why we advise not to try to analyze their every move of comment that they make. You can't please them.
Keep the focus on YOU and your children. Leave her to her madness.
I look at so many divorces now and wonder how many are actually due to MLC, especially during this replay phase.
Yes, there are quite a few that divorces that have taken place because of MLC. You have to remember that back many, many years ago, they didn't talk about MLC. It's just been in the last 20 years that people have begun talking about it. Lawyers see a lot of nonsense when it comes to filing for divorces, especially when the MLCer is involved. It is very sad, but MLC has been around for a very long time.
I look at so many divorces now and wonder how many are actually due to MLC, especially during this replay phase.
That is difficult to say especially since MLC isn't officially recognized in the American Psychiatric Ass'n DSM.
Some of the ex-partners of us are perhaps "ill" in some fashion. Some are perhaps selfish jerks like my own ex (IMO)
To save you the time of reading, we had a good if somewhat unbalanced marriage - she was definitely in charge. Empty nest, menopause, "It's time for
me" yadda yadda yadda. A well-off widower falls in to her lap - more or less literally - she has some presumably real conflicts and depression about her choices and then goes chasing off. Spoiler alert - it doesn't seem to have worked out well for her.
DnJ's STBX though, is just behaving weird and there are those who have suggested mental illness or drug abuse in that case. Gordie's seems to have realized that things weren't going to work out for her and is apparently reluctantly getting used to that.
Your own seem to be in some ways closer to my experience. You've just not hung on as long and as hard as I did which in many ways I'm still healing from.
Is the "awakening" when they realize that it hasn't worked out and then try to worm their way back in to the good graces of their former partner? Or is it a legitimate change in attitude? Smarter people than I am probably disagree on this.
And yes - a number of us LBS - even ones who hang around here still like the ghosts at the banquet - can be pretty cynical.
Talked with my life coach today and he gave me advice on staying or leaving.
Staying: be nice, support her etc...,
Leaving: keep mouth shut, stay in your room, give it a week or so, talk with Atty, file temp orders yourself (for what I want) and have bulldog do the dirty work. It will be hard to live under the same roof once the ball gets rolling.
Yep. That about sums it up.
If you see this as just two choices.
You don’t need to decide today, or even tomorrow.
You can move forward, and give yourself time to figure out what you want to do.
DnJ
The continual disrespect, coming home at 3am, cheating, lies and using me have taken a toll. If that gets better perhaps I'll give more time. I suspect it will only get worse though.
I cannot continue to live like this.
Take it from someone who has been there
And I know this is cold comfort
But you will not continue to live like this
Your situation will change
This is temporary
Take it one day at a time
Or one hour or one minute
Hamburg I have been reading the progress. Others are giving you great advice, and mine is just that, my opinion. But I feel like I have to do this, consider this a very friendly 2x4 (it is a metaphor for trying to help by being a little hard). Context for you is I stayed in relatively close but not continues contact with my wife for the first 1.5 years after BD, she talked to me a lot, including hurling very painful comments and insults, and also very connected and caring honest truthful sharing. She swung all the way from shark eyes/anger, back to her old self but in a lot of pain and open and asking for help, and then suddenly asked for divorce and snapped most of the way back.
I managed the 1.5 years by quickly detaching emotionally from her and minimizing my damage. But that was the hardest 1.5 years of my life. You do not sound detached and it must hurt, a lot. No matter what you decide you HAVE TO detach, and as others have said stop focusing on her and focus on you. If you want to decide whether you want to hope to wait for her or not I GUARANTEE you if you do not detach you will take enough damage and pain that you WILL leave and probably hate her, and it will not from a carefully chosen decision, rather from pain and self preservation.
Reading what you wrote she is deep in throws of replay and MLC. In fact she MAY even not fully be in the swing of things and MAY get worse. Nothing you say or do will help her or your marriage right now, no matter how hard you wish you could do both. Trust me and others on this, she is in this alone and you are only a passenger tied to the rear bumper being dragged behind. You are not only not driving you are not even in the car, all that will happen if you stay here is, well follow the analogy. If she goes off the cliff you being dragged behind will change nothing, she will still crash with or without you.
Her "disrespect" and all other painful behaviour towards you is because she is probably in so much inner pain and turmoil you DO NOT exist emotionally in her world, you are like furniture. We don't really worry about what we do to our furniture and how the furniture feels. I sat with my wife and her "friend" on a rock where she took food out of a bag for her and him, and put the bag done AS IF I WAS NOT EVEN there. Because in her emotional world when in this state I was not there, I was a rock. If you are interacting with her and expecting human reaction, specially from the woman you were so close to you will continually be "disrespected" and hurt deeply. So stop. Sticking your hand into the fire WILL burn it while the fire is hot. It doesn't alter the fire. So don't.
When you detach emotionally, internalize the truth of what is going on with her, heal and take care of yourself then you can get to a point where you can decide to "stay" or "go." Right now all that will happen is you will leave or she will destroy any love you have for her at some point. By detaching you may save that love and may be able to reengage one day, but not today. Others have said it, accept this is months and years, not weeks.
Much caring and concern.
Thanks. Started to detach a month ago, I guess it wasn't full effort or perhaps it takes time. I know I have to do it for myself in order to heal. It makes it both easier and harder while being in the house.
Thanks. Started to detach a month ago, I guess it wasn't full effort or perhaps it takes time. I know I have to do it for myself in order to heal. It makes it both easier and harder while being in the house.
It is a lot of effort and it DOES take time, but keep at it. Being in the same house is so much harder. I had the luxury if long periods of not being together, and every time we spend time together by the time she left I would feel how draining, hard and negative it was being around her. But without time apart and/or detaching we tend to "normalize" things and don't realize how bad it really is sometimes. Detaching and going no contact allows us to start registering the pain and difficulty and to find our footing.
This is why I'm thinking at this point it may be worth getting out of the house. It is extremely difficult around the holidays but our dynamic is such that maybe it's better to be apart.
Consult with a L before thinking of leaving
I know why you would want to leave
But you do not want to negatively affect custody
Consult with a L before thinking of leaving
I know why you would want to leave
But you do not want to negatively affect custody
That's my sticking point. I talked with him and as long as I try and put in 50% it won't affect it. Being away would obviously make that harder. However, in this case there have been several missteps by her that may actually award me custody. I can also request 50/50 custody for temp orders. It's a catch 22 and a chess match.
Hello Hamburg
You are correct, the holidays are a more difficult time for us and the MLCer. They have old love, feelings, and thoughts pushing back into their addled emotional charged mind. It is very confusing for them and they will seek and find justification to further their cause and quell those annoying thoughts of a past reality.
This does pass, after holidays are over, they settle and continue on their solitary journey.
I know you understand the importance of detachment. You are making progress, even if at times it does not feel like it.
“Feel” - that is what it is about. Getting your feelings to not uncontrollably follow her feelings or actions. This takes time, keep the goal in mind, you will get there.
My W left at BD, destroyed everything, dumped me, the kids, house, money, cars, dogs, some of her clothes. Crazy times! I did find detachment, it was still months in the making. The thing is, it is a slow change from 0% detached and 100% attached, then a while later 10% / 90%, 20% / 80%, and so on. Then one day you realize, suddenly, hey I am not attached. You find detachment. Spoiler - you do lose it again. You see, that surprise moment happens when you are more detached than attached, let’s say 80 / 20, you will have had a stretch of good detached days, and it will hit you, that you actually did it.
The 20% will come back, don’t worry, it does not hurt nearly as much as it does when at 10/90. Eventually you will get to a point you will say and “feel” - I am detached.
My own journey I will say was atypical of the genrally summarized steps of grieving and healing, if such a thing makes sense. There is no “right” way to get through what you are facing. I found forgiveness early, for most it seems to be, a near the end moment of healing. You won’t just work on, and achieve, one state then move on to the next. While you are detaching, you are letting go, you are accepting, you are becoming indifferent. True somethings have to happen after others are achieved - like indifference, a few other things must be in place first.
My point is, that being apart might make detachment easier, somewhat, maybe. Like everything you, I, and everyone else struggles with, it is in your mind. That is not meant meanly or a discouragingly. Your W does not make you attached, does not prevent your detachment, it is all from you. Therefore no matter where you are, no matter where she is, it really doesn’t change your perspective, you mind is always with you and attached. However, as I said, not having her pushing buttons may make it easier.
You don’t need to move out for that space for yourself, just go out on your own for hours at a time as needed. Change your perspective on this, and you will get there.
I will add my voice and suggestions to the choices you face. Stay in the master bedroom, she wants to leave, not you - let her move to another bedroom. Stay in the house, again let her move out, and do the heavy lifting, let her own those decisions, do not do her dirty work for her.
I know you have received L advice to the contrary, and I am sure there is more to your situation, and reasoning and logic to your L’s point of view. If you have some concerns, which I am sensing you do, you could ask another L on their opinion of what you should do. This is probably one of the biggest decision of your life, financially huge, custody arrangements, etc... Seeking more than one opinion is a good idea, and a wise investment.
You know your situation better than anyone here. We all offer advice and suggestions, based on what worked for us, and the collective wisdom.
I looked at the advice and suggestions I received as an opportunity for me to ensure I was making decisions based on reason and true values and beliefs. That usually ends up as a question for you to ponder and find
your answers.
It is extremely difficult around the holidays but our dynamic is such that maybe it's better to be apart.
It maybe better to be apart - true.
Is it best?
DnJ
In my heart I really want to stay.
How do I pull off a bedroom switch? I know if I ask her she will threaten to file temp orders.
Maybe when she is out on one of her benders I can just move everything. But I would suspect her moving back in when I am at work.
That is good - knowing your heart’s desire.
I am probably going to be a bit of pain for you with questions.
So, you want to stay. Awesome! Why? What are your reasons? Find them and focus on them.
Most of us are problem solvers, with this crazy problem we can’t solve - so we are told. I say not quite true. It is our scope of the problem, our perspective of the problem, to be accurate our scope of what we feel responsible to correct - that is wrong and needs adjustment.
You now have a small piece, of the large mess which you cannot fix, to do something with. This you can fix. You can fix your part of this problem.
You want to stay. So stay. What will drive you out? What would make you so angry, crazy, sad, whatever - that you would have to leave? Get those inputs under control. Find a way to coexist with them.
That is focusing on you and kids, finding detachment. That is a practical application of those ideas. That is how it is done.
By the way, “what would make you so angry, crazy, sad - so you would have to leave”. Do you see that the drivers are feelings, that is why detachment is so important - and realizing that is a really good step towards achieving it.
Remember feeling are fleeting, they will change, they might feel forever, they will change, no doubt. Do not make decisions when all amped up with feelings, use reason and logic. There are many counterintuitive reason for this as well, one is to break the addiction to your spouse.
As for the bedroom furnishings. I hope I did not confuse things. Moving her stuff out will not work, she will most likely bring it all back, and get good and angry as well. She is going to do what she wants to do. If she gets to a point where she wants to leave the bedroom - she will. Your decision is for you. Remain in the bedroom or not - it is for you.
I understand just how mixed up everything is right now for you, and how much information is coming at you. One can only take in so much, and only so fast. Don’t worry it takes time, do not expect fast or push yourself to hard, as much as you can be peaceful and let the answers find you - you answers will be revealed from within yourself in time, be patient. We aren’t going anywhere, and you can re-read posts many times gleaning more from them.
This is a marathon. You will get there, piece by piece, one little step at a time.
You have the time, use it well.
DnJ
I'll offer up a suggestion on how to move to the Master Bedroom. You can always say "wife, I've decided that I am moving back into the Master Bedroom. If you are not happy with my decision, you can either remain in the Master Bedroom or move to the guest bedroom."
If she threatens to file temp orders, call her bluff. What is she going to say? My husband has decided to move back into the Master Bedroom? If I am not mistaken, you are the one paying the bills. They love to make threats. Believe none of what they say and only 50% of what they do.
Try to look at her as a roommate and nothing more. No expectations, but you can be polite and say hello, goodbye, have a nice day, etc. Refrain from any more relationship conversations, i.e, divorce talks and the OM.
Continue to focus on you as best you can. Go out when you need a breath of fresh air or to regain control of your emotions.
My reason for staying is mainly for the kids. I can't imagine waking up christmas morning and not having them there. We already have a tree and I see there little eyes light up.
I had to listen to all my audio from replay part 1 in order to organize it for the Atty. She threatened temp orders so many times and never pulled the trigger. There does not have to be a threat, it is not a protective order. They are temp visitation, child support etc... she knows her gravy train ends at that point and I don't think she would do it. I will leave the bedroom alone for now and see how things go.
The main thing I have to deal with is her staying out all hours of the night. I work my tail off and it is really annoying being distracted at 3am by garage door and alarm. It hinders my sleep and I get up at 5am. If not for that I would be ok with everything else.
Have you sat down w/her and explained the situation about the garage door and alarm on the days you have to go to work? You could say something like: "wife, is there any way that you can come in earlier during the week? The reason that I am asking is that I have to get up at 5:00 am to go to work and when the garage door and alarm make noise, they disturb my sleep and I can't go back to sleep for the 2 hours, which they affects my work performance. Any assistance from you on this matter is greatly appreciated."
If you speak to her about this, you will need to be calm and keep your voice as even as possible.
Have you sat down w/her and explained the situation about the garage door and alarm on the days you have to go to work? You could say something like: "wife, is there any way that you can come in earlier during the week? The reason that I am asking is that I have to get up at 5:00 am to go to work and when the garage door and alarm make noise, they disturb my sleep and I can't go back to sleep for the 2 hours, which they affects my work performance. Any assistance from you on this matter is greatly appreciated."
If you speak to her about this, you will need to be calm and keep your voice as even as possible.
Not yet. All bets point to her asking me to leave the house of that's the case. I can try though.
Also, point out that the noise may be disturbing the children's sleep. She might soften if you mention the children.
Stay calm and choose a quiet time to broach the subject.
I came home at 2am last night so she'll probably have to say something about that. I think it's out of my system though. Had to be up at 5. If all cools down this week we can talk about it more. Still think she will accuse me of trying to control her.
Whatever she says about you going out-
stay calm
neutral kind, soft tone
Think about just being cordial
thank her if she does anything right
like if she actually starts coming in earlier so you and kids can sleep
If you want to live there together so you can be with your kids
and make sure they are safe-you will have to find the best ways
to get along
not an easy task for the LBS but possible-
practice being positive and upbeat-
figure out how to talk to her and keep the peace in the house-
let the kids see peace between you and her
usually I found to ask for nothing, thank him for anything he helped with and validate him
seemed to work well here and keep things quiet
especially during the separation
I second, third and fourth Peacetoday's post! There is reason for the name, "peacetoday"!
Your focus really is on controlling W, and it will help you to see what we are all seeing from reading your (rather frantic) posts. You have a righteous anger because she is doing things that are evil. But the anger will only destroy you; it won't change her.
The only thing that MIGHT change her, over a long long long time, is your kindness and forgiveness. You can't be kind or forgiving to change her. But if you are able to be kind and forgiving so that your kids can see what that looks like, you will give your kids a gift that will last all their lives, and you will feel free. And maybe, just maybe, one day your wife will wake up from the madness and feel safe to come back. Even if she files. Even if the D goes through.
If you don't want to be kind and forgiving, and I understand that it is next to impossible and not something I could do at all if I didn't have God in my life, then you know that your choice is D.
But either way -- surrender the need to change her! Even if she is doing things that are completely unacceptable!
Garage door bothering you? Get some earplugs. Alarm bothering the kids? Put on white noise machine or fan in their room.
Or break the garage door. Or leave it open.
W cheating on you with some evil slime bag? Take up boxing or fishing or painting or running. Or all of the above. when you start to think about the cheating and the evil slime bag, work on one of those things while playing loud music. All you can do is distract yourself from those thoughts; you can't change them. Accepting that will make you a tower of strength and an amazing man. Or throw yourself into helping others -- offer to take on four new patients at your practice who could never afford you. Visit a homeless shelter every Sunday and treat folks there for free. You have a gift; use it to make your mark on this world in a beautiful way! Take a week with Doctors without Borders. Do something truly important in the world so you can stop thinking about how selfish and ugly your W is right now.
You are a person in this world with or without her. What kind of person do you want to be? It is painful to walk through life with a broken heart, but that's your reality right now. You can still be the man you want to be with that broken heart -- just as you would tell a patient who lost a leg that he can still be the man he wants to be. You have a wound but you are not dead. Don't let yourself be dead. Resurrect yourself. One day you may also be able to resurrect your marriage, but right now all you can do is put your marriage in a box on the shelf and hope that one day W opens the box again.
I read here, I think on jackthreebeans' thread, that standing for your marriage really just means outlasting the MLC. That has really stuck with me. I remember that line everyday and it really helps me. And while I am outlasting it, I can still lead a fulfilling life as ME. If you read my thread, you will see how much I struggled to find me. And sometimes I still lose me -- AND I AM ON YEAR SIX!!!! But mostly I have found me more than ever, and I have hope and joy in life a lot of the time, despite my current horrifying circumstances. YOU CAN DO IT!
That is very beautiful. Thank you. I have been trying to extend the olive branch and she is not accepting yet. It will likely take some time. I need to remain the calm, sane person I have been and accept things how they unfold.
One of the things that will help is to be consistent in your actions. She is watching you just as much as you are watching her. Actions always speak louder than words. Try to be upbeat, smile often and just do whatever it is you need to do to get through each day under the same roof. Find fun things to do with your children. Get out of the house and do something fun, even if it means getting a cup of coffee and people watching...do it! Each day, find one thing to be happy and thankful for. Yes, it's difficult right now to see this, but think about it. I see plenty...a man who is still living at home with his family, a man who is healthy and intelligent, a man who is loyal and wants to do the right things and a man who is willing to listen to what we all have to say.
Tomorrow is a new day. Think of something that you can do when you get home or need to get some stress free time away.
You've got this! I have faith in you.
Saw her when I went home. We were cordial to each other. Someone will be looking at the house tomorrow so have to get some things done.
Took the kids to dinner. It was awesome. W has been neurotic for years and even a dinner with the kids was stressful. Went to grocery store for 2 items but got kids a giant racecar cart. I ran and pushed it fast in the parking lot. All things W is too prim and proper to do. Kids loved it
Hamburg
Here is what I did while living in the same house while w was doing terrible things
As Gerda said do your best to be kind and patient
But know that it is not always possible
At those times I just minimized interaction
She would come and I would go out
My interest was the same as a shop clerk
No more no less
I took care of the kids completely
I did all the housework
Some called this cake feeding
I called it survival
I had to drop my expectations to zero
I come home at 9pm and kids have not eaten dinner
Instead of getting angry I just make dinner
Getting angry will not put food on the table
Or get homework done or kids out to bed
No expectations w acts like a w or mother
Show her you are a kick butt single dad
Being angry and depressed does not make a good dad
She stays out until 3am
Let it go and stop caring
Coordinate the evenings where you go out and she stays home
That is good for you too even if she does not like it
Fake happy until you find your happy again
And you will with or without w
It was pleasurable to take the kids out myself. We have been going out as a family since August so it was the 3rd or 4th time since then I have done it myself. It was great.
Daughter told me mommy was crying today. I didn't think she did that in front of the kids. Bathroom trashcan is full, top to bottom, of Kleenex. It made me kind of feel sorry for her.
Now she is out, probably until late. I guess now that the A is out in the open she has nothing to hide anymore. I am caring less and less about it.
I started pouring myself back in to work and people have noticed how much better I am. I think nurses know something is up though because I am being offered lunches and given gifts. 2 phone numbers today, lol.
The sharks are smelling blood in the water, are they? Yikes. Take care of you and your children first Hamburg. Give yourself time. Tempting to call one of those numbers, I’m sure, but I doubt anything good could come of it. At best, a distraction. Sad to hear about your W. She sounds very, very confused and sad. I hope she starts to figure things out. Best to you and your kids.
Sharks is an understatement. Not going to call any of them. I'm part of hospital administration and it would be disastrous.
I agree she is sad and confused. Only thing i can do is work on myself and focus on the kids. Oldest daughter (7) told me she is leaving then at drop off daycare all weekend while I'm at work. Sad.
H
Think about your energy-the so called sharks will sense that you are unavailable if your energy says that
It is helpful to know that we can still be attractive in the single world-but let it go at that-
let your energy signal be for friends only=-
New R distractions could be dangerous for a LBS this early on
You are doing well- I see a definite shift in your energy here
Being available for your kids will bring the best benefit for your family- and you
this will buy you the time needed to Heal
healing has to come b4 anything else
then doors will open and close will little effort
Your W will have the best chance as well to find herself and I do believe they must remember or see that
we have supported them and loved them even through their unacceptable behavior
we have done our part-
maybe their chances of a recovery later on will be better for them-
so they can at least be an available parent
Just logging the day to day stuff. Its therapeutic.
Long day at work. Thank goodness this flu season is not so bad here. Tend to get a nervous feeling on the drive home. Came home and wife looks very upset and down. She has obviously been crying. Saw her briefly this morning but did not say anything to her....just left for work. Didn't say anything about her coming home at 4am. Talked a little when I got home, was cordial. Played with kids, bathed them and read books. Xmas tree is up. Usually wife dazzlingly decorates a 10 ft tree. This year just did a 5 ft for the kids. Kids wrote some items they want and we gave to the elf on shelf. Despite what's going on there is something so magical about this time of year. Praying I get the strength to pull through this season.....for the kids.
H
I see a shift in you-
Becoming more focused on the kids and letting her go on her journey
She is looking for Gold but you will find it
stick to the path-
You handled Monday perfectly. Yes, I agree, this time of year can be so magical not only for the kids, but for adults as well.
As for your wife, she's having some down days and the pity party has been playing in her head. To be perfectly honest, they go through period of crying, sulking, putting on that happy face and puffing up w/confidence. You never know who you are going to see when you come into a room.
Sounds like you are detaching a bit more and focusing on the children and you. That's wonderful! Keep it up!
I agree -- you sound really different, Hamburg.
There is definitely something magical about Advent -- hope, joy, it's real! Keep giving that to your kids! They will be able to always remember how their dad was a rock during a dark period when their mom went crazy. They will be grateful to you and they will learn how to be strong in crisis. They will learn forgiveness and love by watching you. You are doing great, so much better in what you described about your being home and doing your thing. Get each kid an extra special ornament or make one with them, they will love it.
Tonight's blog
Another busy day at work. Still nervous when coming home. W had crazy eyes again but not confrontational. I continue to show respect and be humble but upbeat. Tonight I finish prep to meet with Atty tomorrow. I have a case that will demolish her. It's what I have to do in order to get the kids.Going to present evidence I have and take 7-10 days before pulling the trigger. Despite the pain shes caused this family I have a big heart and it is difficult to do it this way. We made eye contact a few times tonight and I can tell she's in pain. It hurts me to see her this way. That's why I am taking time with this. I looked at an apartment and a new level of reality hit. I put myself in her shoes, no job, no income, no place to live and realized she is not only facing her inner demons but these things too. I'm in a non alimony state and she will be struggling. It is a big pill to swallow.
Hamburg, there is very little chance you are going to get sole custody of the kids, and doing so would likely not be good for any of you. Please listen to your attorney tomorrow and remember this is the children's mother. If you are correct, she will struggle enough financially and be forced to face her consequences as a result of her own actions, which is the far better just deserts.
I personally have a hard time with someone who describes himself as respectful and humble and says it hurts him to see her suffer and then says he will demolish the mother of his children. I told my H that I would not be the first to launch any harmful blow, that I would only defend myself and the children in response to actions he takes. I've only had to stand up twice and got what was right both times.
I sleep very well at night knowing that I am not adding to my children's pain and wasting our money harming someone who very clearly has major issues. Nothing you do to her will compensate anyone for the pain she has caused, it will simply result in more harm for everyone. In the end you will do what you will do, but it does not have to result in a Pyrrhic victory.
Even 50/50 (which is what I want) will be difficult. This is the route he has already said we must go in order to get that. I would love to have them 2 weeks per month. I know I couldn't handle full custody.
How many lawyers did you interview? I interviewed many before I hired one and not one encouraged me to take my H down, which I could easily do. Again, your choice, but all of you will live with the consequences of your actions.
3. He is strong but sensible. I know....that's why I am taking time before pulling the trigger. Need time to absorb everything.
Again, your choice, but all of you will live with the consequences of your actions.
This x1000. Just like our MLC spouses a day will come when all of this has passed and we still have to live with ourselves, how we held ourselves up and how we acted when confronted with MLC. OneArt is absolutely correct, both for the kids, and for you, and for the woman you shared your life with.
One day you will look back and you want to be proud of how you were doing the darkest hours and be proud of how your kids learned from you, no?
In reading your posts I sense the pain, the love, the anger, the compassion. Maybe I am wrong. But it is perfectly normal to be in turmoil and experience all of these. Question is which of these are the true Hamburg?
H
I sense you will do the right thing by your wife-and your kids-
I really do-
I personally did everything within my power during D to keep my kids safe
It bothered me to know they may be sleeping at my XH Beach apartment with the OW there
I didn't know who she was at the time-and it scared me to have another women raising my kids-influencing them
Especially the kind of woman who cheats with her boss-
I may have let him have visitation, until I found out they were using and drinking excessively,
and my then 5 year old had life threatening allergies-I fought hard-
I didn't fight to take him down- I did it to self protect the three of us-
I could not stop his negative choices but I could protect my innocent kids and I did
I am grateful beyond belief that I did this, and both my kids are very well today-never met her
When it came between us and him- my main concern was to make sure we were financially stable and safe-
He finally chose to move out of state when he M OW-
last I heard he was deep into drugs and D
But we don't keep in any touch with him nor do his sisters-
D is a tough time-Emotions run high and sometimes our pain clouds us-
I sense you will do what's fair-
and in time when you see her direction -you may have to intervene for the kids-
if it is true MLC- she will continue to decline-
It sounds terrible that someone can slip down so far. That is what I fear will happen to my W, as OM is into drugs and has nothing to lose. She is vulnerable and has been for some time. I have to do what's best for my kids and that likely means going on a strong offensive with my case. "Destroying" her was reference to getting the kids 50/50. Her parents called me last week and pleaded with me to get the kids and they SAY they will do anything to help me do that. They have met OM several times and do not want him around kids. I won't ask then for help, as it would forever tarnish their relationship with W.
I continue to pray for her and know she will slip out of this.....even years down the road.
Her parents called me last week and pleaded with me to get the kids and they SAY they will do anything to help me do that. They have met OM several times and do not want him around kids. I won't ask then for help, as it would forever tarnish their relationship with W.
Take their help. I'm serious. If this OM is as bad as they seem to think, your number one goal needs to be protecting your kids, not your wife. And be very very grateful for in-laws that are putting your kids' welfare above their loyalty to their daughter.
Her mom called me in tears and said she cannot believe she is on my side of things. I don't know how far they're willing to go. I will ask Atty what they can offer.
Met with Atty today. Presented my case and he wanted to file temp orders now. I want to get through the holidays because my temp order request will inflame the W (she feels entitled to WAY more than I'm willing to do). Dont want to create a scene here around the holidays. Will look at first of the year which fits my timeline of finding a place to rent as well. Need time to build the case as well. I'm happy with the decision for now.
Hamburg, I once had a conversation with a priest about my H and how it was or wasn't possible to respect him as a man while he was crazy. We were talking about how he wants to sell our house so he can live off the money and not have to work. I also asked if my desire to keep the house was me making an idol out of the house or out of money, etc. He said something that has really stuck with me -- he said, if you truly want to love your husband, and he tried to set fire to the house, would you not think it would be right to keep him from succeeding?
Your in-laws relationship with your W is already tarnished. But it will be healed when the time is right. Now is not the time. You have no idea how lucky you are to have them see things clearly and want to help. My in-laws abandoned my kids completely because they couldn't watch the downfall of our M; before that my MIL was a huge part of their lives, so the MLC plus her abandonment was really devastating. So count yourself lucky! Take their help -- together the three of you can keep W from burning your metaphorical house down. It's the best way to love W if you think about it. There is a scripture I always rely on to remind myself that I should try to keep our ship from sinking; even if you are not Christian I think you'll see the relevance -- This is the steward, faithful and prudent, whom his lord will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time.
I think you are doing the right thing in waiting until after the holidays to file temp orders. You are putting your family first because your w may go off the rails even more so and no one wants to ruin a family holiday. Continue to document and keeps your notes/records in a safe place.
As for your in-laws, try not to discuss too much of what is going on w/them. Your situation is between you and your w and you do not want third parties in the mix. If they offer help, take it. Not many in-laws will listen to the LBS because blood is always thicker than water.
Thanks. I dont think she will be expecting my custody request but I will sweeten the deal with a few extras. The restraining order will have her fly off the rails, (controlling, trying to ruin her life etc...) so I need to be prepared for that.
Things still the same. She tried to throw some daggers at me and I shut it down immediately.
She is insistent on divorce and wants out ASAP. However she refuses to lower price of house in order to do it. She doesn't want too much debt afterward but wants to end the M now. I told her that her actions have consequences and she can't have it both ways. Now, instead of working she wants to go back to school. She tried to get me to discuss details of the D but I refused. She was adamant we discuss things because she cannot afford to use attorney too much. I still refused to discuss anything with her. I do not trust her. I don't want to go to court but it may end up in mediation. We did both agree to wait until after the holidays before pulling the trigger.
Hard times ahead.
I am in the same boat Hamburg. Deferred everything until after the holidays. Yes...hard times are ahead. Hoping I can be detached enough by then to handle things well. Hope things go better than you are anticipating.
H
smart to wait till after the holidays
The process of divorce is heated and painful
No One is really happy except probably the L
but
Once everything is over and finalized, it is a whole lot less stressful
You are wise in not discussing divorce and the details, i.e., especially w/the holidays just around the corner. Well, she will need to make up her mind on working/college. You may end up having to support her while she's working, but there shouldn't be a problem with her having a part time job and going to school. You will need to check out what your responsibility in the way of funding if she opts to take the school route.
I am so sorry you are having to deal w/this. It's never easy when a spouse is confused and doesn't know what he/she wants to do.
I do agree w/Peace, once the divorce is finalized and the dust has settled, a huge weight will be lifted off your shoulders.
Hang in there!
This is the first time I've heard of school. She has a bachelor's degree and is employable now, but out of the workforce 8 years. Luckily it is difficult to get spousal support in my state but I'm not sure if she is trying to pull a fast one here.
I might be wrong, but I think your wife is just a confused individual right now. If she has a lawyer, she may not be telling him/her everything, i.e., degree, etc. Eight years isn't all that long to be out of the work force. She better start looking and soon as a judge would advise her to get her ducks in a row and plan out how she's planning to support herself once a divorce goes through.
Stay the course. I think you are doing fine.
I wonder if many of them really think too much about what the future holds-
many will accept very little to be free to pursue their new life
MY XH left the state and pretty much signed everything of monetary value to me and kids-
He chose to move and Marry OW and go to her small hometown in the mw and start totally over with nothing except his car and some clothes--leaving our business to me-He was president of his business and became a store clerk in his new town-
Only time will tell will direction she may go and even though she pursues school that is no guarantee that she will land or keep a job
But I believe many MLCers follow a script especially if they were poor in childhood-
MY XH was-
they choose poor--
Not poor. In fact she was pretty well off. She was emotionally abandoned at age 3 by her mom though. Several abusive marriages followed. Her dad was her stable rock. She has always said how she didn't want to repeat that cycle. OM in my situation is dangerous. I have to protect my kids (through the courts) and myself. I have purchased a body camera and already own several firearms. W does not have the combo to the safe.
She has been rather hostile lately. I have been calm and cordial but am absolutely not letting her throw daggers my way or talk back to me.
No. Masters degree. Both parents well to do. She has always eaten from a silver spoon. Now SAYS she wants to struggle.
She may feel unworthy and that is why she wants to struggle. She may be looking for some type of validation from her parents if she struggles. She may want to prove that she can make it on her on w/o the help of her parents in any way. We really do not know what is circling around in her head. She may have this grand vision to try something different, i.e., which would mean struggling versus the silver spoon life style.
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Divorce inevitable