Standing our ground - together as a family

Posted By: Irish M

Standing our ground - together as a family - 08/31/18 12:19 AM

Previous thread :

Letting Go for our own inner peace

Chapter 1, First thread:

Wife gone deep in the tunnel?

So a couple of days with no lawyers, Me and the girls got some amazing camping and kayaking in on the weekend of the 18th . End of last week we start preparing for the start of school and WHAM!!! another lawyers letter. Pleading that I update her client. She is showing real pain for the lack of contact with her daughter. D16 , no mention of D18.

XW begging for news from D16 through her Lawyer. My Lawyer suggest that D16 write a letter clearly asking for her mom to back off, it's causing emotional stress and that D16 will reach out to her when D16 wants to. D16 writes the letter.

XW is not telling these girls what to do. She lost that right and under no circumstances will I break and give XW what she wants.

My lawyer sends it off with a final no contact and she would of got it last Friday.

Friday night i get a text from the friend that lives across the street from XW. XW is saying she is finally happy. Loves where she is and made the best decision she could have ever made. No regrets and no mention of her kids. My friend says she never talks about her kids.

Also , She adopted a stray dog. Saying her family is complete.

Sad thing is, that must be the 3rd stray animal she has adopted. The first 2 are no longer in her house. She got rid of them. No clue how long this Dog will last. I feel sorry for the animal.

So today first day of school, no news from XW and I believe we will have Peace in the valley for a while.

take care

Posted By: Vapo

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 08/31/18 08:29 AM

Bloody h@ll It is really exhausting work to keep this charade going on... Well done Irish, You are a ROCK STAR.
Posted By: Westo

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 08/31/18 11:37 AM

I am always incredulous at your composure and the manner in which you conduct yourself throughout this nightmare.

I canít get over a mother deserting her kids like she has. I think you are an utterly brilliant dad, your girls will never forget the way youíve handled yourself and are settling a wonderful example of what a parent is all about.

As for your XW.........I think she has a very lonely future in front of her. She will bitterly regret what sheís done, and when she does it will be way too late.

She is going to miss out on so much, she already has. But you, Irish, will always have your girls and eventually grandchildren who will also adore you. You will not have a lonely future and one day a very lucky lady is going to be in you and your girls lives.
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 08/31/18 12:59 PM


I am so sorry that she's at it again. I don't think that there will be much peace in the valley for very long. Right now, the dog is a substitute for her daughters and when the novelty wears off, she'll have her lawyer contact you again. She will not take the letter your daughter wrote to heart, she will continue to have the lawyer contact you. I can't even imagine her bill for this nonsense, but that's her issue, not yours.

I'm sure your daughters will do well in their respective schools. A new school year, new adventures.

You are a great dad!
Posted By: OneArt

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 08/31/18 06:24 PM

Still so very lost. Very sad. I still feel worse when it is the wife and mom. She is a very fearful person and still can't come to terms with the effect her actions have had on others. At least she's moving. You may not like what it looks like right now, but it is movement. Maybe by the time they have children of their own, she will make peace with all of this. Even so, they are so fortunate to have you for a dad.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 08/31/18 09:04 PM

I love how you protect your girls and let them make their own choices, that must be so comforting for them to have a dad who's got their backs. All the other pain that they feel about their mom must end up getting washed away in some large part by being able to rely on you like that. I can just imagine how exhausted you are by the endless drama. I feel the same, that mystification of why can't they just make one choice and live by it.

One thought I had while reading this post -- I see it as a blessing when my H shows interest in my kids, even if everything else he does is so frustratingly insufficient or downright wrong, mystifying, disgusting. That neighbor is not a friend to you if she told you those things; what good could that possibly serve and what purpose could she have in telling you that except to make you feel the drama or the pain or something more? And it's not like she is really telling you anything you don't know about the total confusion and desperation of your exW's mind. Of course your exW is saying those things, she is deep in the madness and they all say that and more. Of course she thinks she can fill the daughter-sized hole with a dog. But we know she can't. I hope that one day the blinders come off for her, and she can try to earn their forgiveness.

You know that Native American story about which wolf in your heart wins, and the answer is the one you feed? I know it's been endlessly posted, but I will post it below in case needed. I try to continue to feed the tiny shrunken version of the good in my H when I am given an opening to do so, even if it's rare, even or especially if he doesn't do the right thing before I do it or after I do it. I also like my kids to see that I continue to try to walk in the light no matter what H does. I try to always offer him news of the kids, send photos, etc. Not everyday as I would if we were a real couple, but just once or twice a week when there is something worth sharing, the same things I would send his mom. I totally see why you are not wanting to do that to protect your girls from her and to establish a boundary but sometimes I wonder what would happen if you did it simply and with no expectation. Not that it would fix her, not that it would wake her up, but that it would free you to be able to sometimes share that news, and that you never know which wolf you might be feeding in her, but at least you know you are walking in the light no matter what your exW does. We can see very clearly the evil wolf in your exW, but sometimes we forget that her evil ways can feed the same wolf in us if we don't very carefully avoid feeding it.

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. ďA fight is going on inside me,Ē he said to the boy.
ďIt is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil Ė he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.Ē

He continued, ďThe other is good Ė he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

"The same fight is going on inside you Ė and inside every other person, too.Ē

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, ďWhich wolf will win?Ē

The old Cherokee simply replied, ďThe one you feed.Ē
Posted By: OneLessWife

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/26/18 11:42 AM

Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/24/18 02:14 AM

Hope everyone is doing good. Sorry for the long breaks between posts. It seems like as time passes and I grow further away from my XW, I have a lot less to share. She is not in our lives and only a few pop ups from her MLC hole.

Well, from XW it's been quiet. No news is good news right? I wish that was the case.

A concerned family member of hers contacted me. They saw some posts on her Facebook. Mostly about her being victim number 1. How she understood the pain of rejection. That life is not what she wanted. Also posts about suicide. " if you end it now you will be missed" How someone saved others from suicide. Looking out for those who look after her...

a lot of deep stuff.

I told this person to get my XW help. Guide her to it if she will listen. That I am not the person who can help. I would if I could but I know i'm not. XW won't get help if she doesn't want it.

I also just had another person try to add me on facebook. I messaged them a "HI, hope their family is doing well"
this person is the son of XWs' deceased fathers girlfriend. Nice enough guy. I saw once a year.

messaged me back. How are you and the girls. Are the girls still seeing their mother. It would be nice to see you and the girls sometime. You are welcome over anytime.

Well, funny after 3 years this guy reaches out. We have not communicated before, only through XW. I told him that I don't think I will add him. That XW family and her dads girlfriends family have not reached out once during all this and it was weird the sudden requests. That XW hasn't seen her girls in over 3 years. I wished him well and repeated that its XW who needs the support not me.

Now back to XW facebook posts. I don't think she is suicidal. I am afraid that she will use that to lure the girls. The old i'm gonna kill myself if you don't ... etc etc etc.

I wouldn't want that to be the turning point that the girls reach out. It's not a positive thing. A healthy mom would be the best scenario but that's not happening anytime soon.

XW is probably in one of those moments of skewed versions that she was the rejected and abandoned one and not the girls. Maybe she is reflecting on her youth when her mom abandoned her.. who knows.

Still praying for a miracle just not sitting still waiting for it to happen

on a high note...
Halloween 8 days away. I am doing the yearly haunted house. Huge hit in my neighborhood. I've increase the area by 3. Lots more to set up still but the girls are anxious to scare the neighbors and their friends. If you are in the neighborhood drop in... :-)
Posted By: OneArt

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/24/18 04:26 AM

You know Irish, that were it not for the life you have made for yourself and your girls, you would have one of the saddest stories on this site (I think the same of dear peacetoday as well--you guys are the real deal).

She is sad. She is a mess. I thought she was a happy go lucky newlywed with a new residence and friends, and look, now kind-hearted people fighting her battles for her, ready to swoop on the baddies that cut her loose those awful three years before.

Sadly the suicide stuff is probably manipulative. My H (you know, the infamous texter) has sent the kids suicide videos. I think he cares about his image a little too much to display his manipulation for the masses. My kids are, I think, around the same age, maybe a little younger. I can tell you that these manipulations have not been successful. I think your girls will probably see through this, and even if they did communicate or meet up with her, they would quickly figure it out.

If it is real, and she does carry it out, that will be her choice. You have been kind in asking the others to help her. They are the ones she turned to. They are the ones with insight into her life.

I'm sorry that she can't leave all of you alone. I'm guessing she is a borderline from her various antics and while I think they can be helped if they seek it out, they do actually have to seek it out.

I hope your relationship is going well and the lawyer letters have ceased. I hope the roses and cards to the girls on their big days are falling away. I hope she does get help one day and her girls can get some answers. But you are still the standard for how someone should lovingly detach and get on with the task of living.
Posted By: Lifes Twists

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/24/18 10:55 AM

Hi Irish,

My personal experience with suicide is the ones who talk about doing it are either calling for help or trying to manipulate the situation. They don't actually intend to do it. Its the ones like my ex who dont say anything but go ahead with the attempt that actually mean it. Mine tried twice,Luckily she was not successful.

I feel you are handling this well. You are doing right by not raising the issue as something serious with your girls. Unfortunately your ex is still stuck in lala land with not end in site.
Posted By: SBJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/24/18 01:47 PM

Irish, I'm glad that you and the girls are looking forward to next week and Halloween. I enjoy this time of year because of the Holiday Season and also whitetail season here in TX. For the first time ever my D16 has agreed to go with me. I am so excited to share something else I love with one of my children. You have been inspirational in that regard with your girls.

As for your X...she is obviously still in the depression that is MLC. I am sorry that you have to continue to dealing with this batchitcrazy sitch. I like you have tried to turn it all over to God and let him sort it out. His way and His time has become my motto.

Continue to fight the fight and keep us posted...monthly or quarterly if possible.
Posted By: marina7

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/24/18 02:41 PM


Catching up,
Wow your W sounds alot like mines. I believe once I do
get full custody W would be like your W.

I know one thing is people that commit suicide
don't cry for help. They just do it. That's why many
People that do commit suicide family and friends
Say there where no signs. So W just looking for

I hoping that's the case. All we LBS can do is
Pray for them. And remind yourself and girls not your fault.

I wish I lived in your neighborhood my kids and I would be
At that haunted house. We love Halloween in fact Halloween is one
Of my favorite Holiday then Christmas.

Sending lots of praying your way for you and girls...
Posted By: Gordie

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/25/18 02:53 AM


As always

You are an inspiration

Prayers for you and the girls

and your ex
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/28/18 04:51 AM

Hello Irish

It is very nice to hear from you.

You exW sounds like she is still a mess. I do understand your concerns regarding her, I hope she finds the strength to reach out for help. In some ways it sounds like she has, posting and talking about it will,help her express her feelings and not keep them bottled up.

You, dear Irish, are doing amazing.

You have raised two wonderful ladies and are living life in greatness.

I do think of you often, thanks for popping in with an update.

Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/04/18 04:56 AM

Hey everyone.

Well Halloween was a huge success. We had line ups down the street. A lot of praise from the parents and just as many adults walking through my little house of horrors as kids. Some didn't make it out and chose to back track out.

all in all was a great time. I also was visited by the city and they awarded me with the best decor and set up. Nice basket of wines, gift cards, season passes to the nature island nearby and some show passes. I was amazed. Girls were jumping for joy.

With all theses good emotions the next day was not so heartwarming.

I was out of town and a bailiff drops in. Her timing on these things are unbelievable.

Well D16 was home from school and she accepted it. Texted me pictures of the envelop and opened it up.

XW, is now asking for a review of our salaries so she can not pay the minimal amount every 2 weeks she is currently paying.

She is also claiming that i am keeping the girls from her.

So I get home on the 2nd and read this thing over .

she is saying she is now only making 31000$ , a drop from her 55000$ she was making due to a job change. She has a new job. The 5th one in 5 years. Her past job, I'm sure she made more because 55K was her base salary. She also had commissions and bonuses. But I never challenged it. Her current job is a clerk in a grocery store. So she is on the down slide of careers.

She is also stating that D18 is no longer a minor and she shouldn't have to contribute. She will continue to support D16 but at a reduced rate on account of her limited income.

Along with the claim I keep the girls from her.

I contacted my lawyer. He said email her lawyer and say the facts. add documents to back them up and challenge it. CC him and mention that I will seek council if needed. Again no charge for this from my lawyer. They guy has been amazing

So i write.

I agree to the review in salaries but I won't accept the removal of D18 from the child support payments. She is a full time student with limited income as well. By law, as long as she is a full time student, child support continues. See attached.

Also in the agreement I am entitled to child support and request additional support for school, medical and other. 50% covered by both parties. I have not once did this. Nor will I . But if this continues I will start sending her receipts and demanding payment.

As for the keeping the girls from her. I will give you the benefit of the doubt as you are her forth lawyer and may be unaware of he situation. Please see the divorce agreement and mediation files attached. Clearly XW has giving up shared custody on her own. Nothing to do about me.

Please remind XW that she
- gave up custody
- refused any counselling with the girls to reconnect
- moved far away
- denied the girls knowledge of her whereabouts and place of residence
- has emailed them no more than 10 times in the past 3 years with only 2 attempts this year.
- has refused any communication from myself updating her on the girls

as for myself.
- I attempted to connect them
- offered shared custody
- updated her on the girls health and school. Until i was sent a request to cease communication
- kept the girls emails open so she can contact them
- given her their cell phones. Not one text or call was made

So please update the file with our current salaries and resend to me so I can sign.

emailed it out. Lets see what the next move will be from her.

Funny how for me its the principal of it. Her current payments cover the girls cell phone for the month. Nothing more.
Food, clothing, medical, dental, housing and necessities is all covered by me. Also, the emotional care support and love given to them is me. So if she wants to pay 47$ every 2 weeks instead of the 75$ its no big loss to me.

But somebody please get her off the victim train.

hope you are all well.

Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/04/18 01:49 PM

Good Morning Irish

What an awesome sounding Halloween. An award too! I am sure the throng of people participating in your little house of horrors was reward enough. Still, congratulation on formal recognition from the city. That would have been a nice visit to have.

You next visit, I agree, not so nice. I donít mean the bailiff, they are only doing their job. The true visit is from exW.

I total understand what you are saying regarding child support, exWís choices, the unbalance of all this, and the frustration.

Here, my W quit even speaking about child support. She was shocked she would have help out financially to raise her own children. After speaking with her L, who told her he does want to see her anymore, she was told yes you owe DnJ child support. She didnít accept that, she even called my L to inquire, he gave her the same answer and a warning that he cannot speak with her, DnJ is my client.

For three months she tried, promised, even saw her accountant a couple of times, to get her income figures, so we could atleast see where she is on the chart. The fourth month she just quit talking to me and has been silent since.

I, like you, have children in post secondary education (S20 & S17) and D16 is also planning on a similar path (S21 works on farm driving semi - phew! Money is tight enough). I pay for everything, just as you stated, food, clothing, medical, all the necessities. I do believe that the amount I would receive from W would be rather small, less than yourís, even with my four children, her income from grass cutting I am guessing is not very high. She did work at the hospital, stead job, benefits, pension - ah who needs that! She quit or was fired, not sure. She didnít like not being able to come and go as she pleased. Her income tax for this year should be pretty interesting, I think she has worked at over twenty different places (she is still working at some of them).

I lead a work force, my views and actions can inspire or extinguish those individuals. I coach and mentor each of them based on where they are and what their needs are; and I hold them accountable for their actions. I have great success and a loyal crew. However this only works because they are healthy stable individuals and they want to be there, listen, accept, and learn.

Our MLCer spouses are not!

I total see the principle of the matter. For my case, Wís income I believe is small. If interest from her lump sum settlement payment is not included as income, I am pretty sure she we not even break the threshold for child support payments. I am considering sending a demand for her income statement after the new year, just to see, to find out what is going on. She is legally obligated to keep me apprised of her income and changes with it. Another item she doesnít like or wants to do - so she hasnít.

I do think she needs some accountablility. I am not going to receive much money in any case. I also do not want to have any involvement with any future financial ruin she made be facing. If she ends up on the street, in poverty, I will have had no direct hand in pushing her there. Hence my letting things go and not demanding any payment. Besides she is one mixed up person.

I do still believe I would offer a helping hand to her if she was in need. I am not sure of what form it would be or take, less financial and more tangible is my idea. Throwing money at her will not help and would just keep her there. It doesnít really matter right now, she has to want the help first.

In your particular situation I do agree with the principle of the matter. Your exW had a good job and made payments according to the agreement. She also settled and dissolved the marriage differently then my W. The state she finds herself currently in, is not of your making. Yes she can and should apply for a review of the amount she pays. You have responded accurately and honestly, I would have expected nothing less from you.

You are correct $75 vs $47. No big deal - Youíre right, you know you donít need it. I am sure you have the financial part of you and your two daughters lives figured out (much like myself).

The small threat of sending her the bills for the extras, the part that both parties are to pay 50/50. Yes, I get it. I have those arrangements too.

Irish, you didnít send her bills when she was better able to afford it. Why not? A better question is: So why do it now?

What changed? Her life sounds worse, working at a lesser paying job, lesser responsibilities, and lesser satisfaction. She still does not see the girls. She is still lost.

So what changed? Perhaps you. She has been stirring stuff up lately. It was probably a lot better when she was totally vanished. Something is going on with her and she is poking and prodding. Remember she is still in that cursed tunnel, lost in darkness, trapped in MLC. This has been, and still is, all about her! Just let it go, again.

Now the irony of me trying to give adivce to you is not lost on me. You are well ahead of where I am, and are dealing with situations that I may have to face someday. For the moment I am spared. I watch, learn, and work out how I would like to respond when my own trials / tests arrive.

For the record I fully believe you have are doing a fantastic job. I am trying to live up to, achieve, some gold standard in all this. To live the best I will be. As such I listen to many viewpoints and take what I can from each and apply it to my life. That is what I am offering to you. An other viewpoint, maybe based more on a compassionate view not yet jaded by as of yet future events.

Yes, your exW is still very much a determined passanger on the victim train. She does not see, want, or acknowledge the fact that she needs help.

You are the one that sees clearly and responds kindly to her actions, even when she doesnít deserve it. Stay risen above all this, you know you could make her life a lot worst. Take the higher road, protect what you need to, and let her be.

I greatly admire you Irish, youíve done one heck of a good job!

Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/06/18 02:25 AM

Hi DnJ

I read your reply a few times over the past few days. You are an amazing guy and father. I may not post as much anymore or add my views on the other situations but I do read them and especially yours. I can tell you that you are amazing man. I may be ahead of you only in dates of BD but you are right next to me in understanding this. Even a step ahead with what you wrote. Your question on the "WHY do it now" really made me reflect on things. I am so glad you asked it.

I had to read that question a few times to try to understand the Why. Is it because she has stirred the pot? Do I fear that if she cuts off the minimal amounts to the girls it means she is gone forever? Not sure. Something about not having the 75$ hurts. Cutting off D18 as if she was a burden. Hurts. Seeing her go downhill hurts.

I think i feel very sorry for her, deep inside I pray for her return to the girls. They deserve it and they deserve the answers only she can give. They are doing well but from time to time they slip as well into thoughts of doubt she will ever be back in their lives. I don't want that to be their true beliefs. I am doing my best to keep them open to a connection of some kind one day and not give up on her.

so the 75$ is the last string holding her to them. If they change it to 13$ I wouldn't care. She needs to feel that the girls are still there. That she needs to continue to be part of their lives somehow. So if ever she does wake up she was always somehow part of their lives.

So sorry you are here DnJ... but like i said.. amazing guy. Keep loving those kids, they are seeing you as their hero and will never forget it.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/09/18 02:58 AM

Good evening.

Well response from her Lawyer was basic. She will not remove D18 from the child payments. (Nice of her, but she has no choice as it's the law. As long as both D's are in school, up until they finish university she must contribute in some way).

Her lawyer said I needed to update her more on the well-being of the girls and about their education. (Still unable to do so since the restraining order she put on me, no way to contact her even if I wanted to).

He also said she must be advised on how D18 is spending her college fund.( The funds that I put aside for the girls since they were 1 and she contributed 0 and tried to even steal that money a few months ago).

He revised the form that included both girls and filled out he amounts we make annually and what my XW will be contributing. A whole 42$ a week for both girls. So i'll deposit 21$ in each of their accounts for pocket change.

I signed the form. No fight on this one from me.

I did however remind her through her lawyer that the funds put aside for the girls belong to the girls and she has no say in when or where they spend it.

As per the updates. She can message them anytime as their contact information has not changed. I won't allow them to change it as it is the only window their mom has to communicate. If ever.

thanked the lawyer and sent it along.

Shame she has to communicate through lawyers. In reading his email you can see the messages she is trying to pass along. I really feel sorry for her that she cant break that wall and ask herself for the first time in 3 years. How are the girls?

How I would love to read that one day.

Until then... I have a basement shower to take out and replace with a new more modern looking one. I will have projects every 2 weeks until I put the house up for sale next June. The girls and myself feel the ghost of MLC here and need a fresh start. Also tired of burning sage to rid the house of negativity caused by all this. Time for a change :-)
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/09/18 12:57 PM

Good Morning Irish

I read your reply to ďwhy do it nowĒ, the day you posted it.

Iíve been mulling it over , and Iíve read it a few times. smile

It is well reasoned and thought out. I can see and understand your desire to have that last thread between the girls and their mom remain, no matter how thin or tenuous it may be.

The hope that you keep alive that if their mom were ever to wake up, she was in atleast some small way part of their lives, shows care and compassion; mostly for your girls and even some for their mom. It shows a great deal of you.

It is difficult to hope for a better connection between children and their estranged parent, to not destroy any relationship they have, to quietly be a stanchion for the possiblility of that better relationship between them.

My childrenís mother, my W, has no threads, thin or otherwise. She does not provide any support in any form, money, care, or communication - well for now anyhow. She did have that one recent phone call to S20, I guess thatís something. Maybe itís a start back, maybe not.

In your latest post, I see your exW will continue to contribute her meagre financial support. Legally she has no choice. I wonder if that fact shook her up a bit, she could use it, IMHO.

It is sad, that exW still will not directly contact her children. We can guess, and probably hit pretty close to the mark, as to the reason for why. At any rate, you are correct, her contact through the lawyer demanding you provide more updates as to the girlís well-being and education, highlights her unfortunate state.

I must say, I was surprised to see you plan on selling your house. It does sound like you have a few projects to finish for the sale in June. You have been at this long enough too know when it is time for a change. Good for you Irish, and your girls.

How big a change are you looking at. Moving to somewhere still close, or a big change, new city, province? I donít think you have any legal entanglements preventing you from moving anywhere you wish.

Best of luck.


Hmmm. With all the money youíll save on not buying sage, you could get a yacht, no a sports car, wait a Tesla, oh.. a Ferrari, not wait a.....oh ya - You like jeeps. smile

Love you man. Doing great!
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/09/18 01:59 PM



You have done a great job and I totally get that you want her to contribute or maybe come out of the mess she created and be there in a better way for herself and your girls
and maybe this is your last bit of connection to this part of your life that was so important for a long time-

I think it may take a lot of courage and inner work for a MLCer that has spiraled down so low-to find their way back

we continue to let go of the MLCer but I always hold on to the hope that one day they may step out of their crises and step up as a human for their well being as well as their children

It happens, I hear testimonies at church --
people find their way back-

we can energetically send them the best-
maybe that can help them and help us let go
Posted By: neffer

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/09/18 03:32 PM

Be proud of where you stand man. Be proud of your girls too. You have done a great work. My respect and admiration for you Irish.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/10/18 04:09 AM

Hi DnJ

The move.. It's a necessary to change homes to escape the memories that XW still holds here. I would move out of the province but my current employment holds me here. I'm doing really well and expanding to the northern regions. However, with the new provincial government here ... I can say that leaving the province one day is a possibility. I do have the possibility of a transfer so we will see in time.

Yes.. a Jeep that i can modify to do mud runs only. My latest one is to new to take off roading.

Hi Peace

I agree on the amount of courage it will take for her to take control of her life, fix her relationship wit her girls and be healthy again. I don't feel my XW will have that courage. In the past she avoided and just forgot about it. She is hoping he same with this. That the girls will just forget and accept. My hopes she will have the courage is only that hope.

Hi Neffer :-)
thanks for the kind words. All us left behinders should be proud. This is the worst thing that can happen to a person. MLC is far worst that any decease out there. I can't imagine the torment and pain they live. The need to escape reality and never find true peace and happiness..

We at least get to live, heal and grow. I am not the same man i was before all this started.

so small update.

With documents signed , I get a final email from XW's lawyer.

Mr. Irish, you are no longer required to appear in court. We will complete this for you based on the agreement between yourself and XW. The documents your filled out will be presented in court and you should receive confirmation of he change in amounts paid to you.

XW would like to share with you her cell phone and email address. Please pass it on to D16 and D18 so they can use it if they want to reach out to their mom.

So, I sit down with the girls and give them her new contact information.

Both are not ready. They really want her to make the move first.

so time will tell.

on my to do list - Project bathroom shower removal was completed tonight. Next step install new shower stall tomorrow..

wish you all a good weekend
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/10/18 08:43 PM


You handled things well-

Your XW probably cant make the first move out of fear, so she puts the work in their court
2 teens?

On the positive side,
At least she made herself available for them to someday reach out-
I guess that is better than nothing
It shows she cares, shes just incapable of mending the damage as of now
This is probably not over- just for now-

when they become adults, they may want to contact her

Im sorry that it didn't turn out better
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/15/18 03:49 AM

Hi Peace :-)
yes you are right.. fear would prevent her and facing it all is a huge challenge and wall I'm sure. They way things are going XW is not helping any future reach out by the girls any time soon.

So tomorrow her lawyer will present both parties, I signed the document to lower her child support payments. D18 singed her part to prove she is in school and not splurging on her college savings.

I was told to update XW on D16 health condition by her lawyer. So I did.

EX , D16 had another episode in gym today. The school nurse said D16 really over exerted herself and was feeling faint. Dehydration playing a huge role. D16 had an anxiety attack and I rush to the school from work and took her home.
This has nothing to do with her brain cyst that so far is not a real concern. Yearly scans will monitor it and so far so good.

EX responded.

YOU DO NOT CONTACT ME. if the girls want to they can anytime. You only contact me if their life is in peril.
And if you ask for any other money in the future it will be no. I will pay 50/50 if the girls contact me in some sort of way.
I however won't contact them. They need to do the first move.

So I sat back and read that message over and over. Who is this woman? I am not sure I will share this with the girls as D18 just went through her mother using a lawyer against her to find out her financial status.

Tomorrow I'll wake up and nothing will have changed except the fact that I will have a little less empathy for the mother of my children. It is slowly disappearing and soon it will be gone entirely.
Posted By: OneArt

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/15/18 05:33 AM

Wow, what more is there really to say. I think we will have to file an application for sainthood if you can retain empathy for this woman.

I gathered that decreasing the support was voluntary on your part. I suppose you could contact her lawyer in writing tonight and inform him that he and his client are clearly not on the same page and therefore you cannot agree to have the writing presented as you do not believe there has been a meeting of the minds. Maybe if you shared that little missive with him she could also work on finding a new attorney to come after you for the $20 a week reduction (or whatever it was).
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/15/18 01:16 PM


I guess as OneArt said the L and the XW are either not on the same page,
or she forgot she asked L to tell you for an update,
or perhaps she needed to get some misdirected anger out at you.

In their distorted minds, they probably continue their denial for taking responsibility for their poor choices and all their mess by projecting it on us..
I think they float in and out sometimes apologizing then again blaming

Im sorry she cant be civil
a simple thank you would have been nice and seems easy enough
after you thoughtfully informed her as her L requested

But remember, this is her--not you

she may or never see all the good and hard work and thought you have put into your transition without her
and raising the girls alone

sad-- they cant see or know how hard we all work at our healing and how important is is to provide stability for our kids--

hang in
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/15/18 03:18 PM


I don't know how you have the patience to deal w/your xw and her crazing-making behavior. I guess I am missing something here, but didn't she have her lawyer advise you at some point, a while a go, to work through her lawyer when it came to anything having to do w/the girls? It sounds to me like the lawyer and your xw are definitely not on the same page.

As for wanting the girls to reach out to her first...she's not only afraid to reach out herself, but she has a lot of guilt and shame for what she's done. The longer this lack of communication goes, the more bitter your xw will become. As for the girls...it's up to them if they want to contact her and she doesn't get it...she's the problem. The girls have done nothing wrong...she's the one that walked out...poor, sad woman. She has missed out on being a part of the girls' lives.

I hope that her lawyer realizes that she doesn't know which end is up and advise her that you can't have it both ways. It won't be long and that lawyer is going to tell her to go take a hike.

I agree, sainthood is in the cards for you. You've been a steady and stable lifeline for your girls. Hang in there because your xw will come out from under that huge rock again very soon because the holidays are approaching and she's going to feel the need to do something to remind all of you that she's still out there.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/16/18 12:35 AM

Hi OneArt, Peace and Job

I understand the confusion on the disconnect between her and her lawyer. I should of specified here that this is a new lawyer. Her 4th if you include the mediator we both shared in the beginning.

I have the same lawyer as my story never changed and I somehow come across as a sane human being. Her divorce lawyer actually told my lawyer that his client was clearly unstable.

Her last lawyer was the one that put in the no contact. This new lawyer was probably unaware of the no contact and XW didn't say anything as she was clearly in victim mode as per his message to me. He said that his client is in deep sadness for not seeing the girls and the separation was clearly hard on them and that I , me , I am to update XW in one way or another.

So, I did update her, I got the expected response (she did not CC her lawyer). I'm sure he would be shocked that after all her sad stories to see she shut me down for trying to be civil. It showed XW's true colors. She is still looking out for herself and she will, no matter who tells her she is wrong, find a new path or lawyer to ensure she pays less and less.

Job, not sure she will message the girls at XMAS. With this year having the lowest messages per year at 2 , i think she will wait until her birthday to message them. I might be wrong.

OneArt, I actually forwarded her message to be to her lawyer and asked him to fill her in on the divorce agreement and this current modification. I'm sure he would love if I push for a fight and I get my lawyer involved. But for the amount of money I would get it will cost me more. I'm just happy she has to see that child support payment deduction on her pay slip for a few more year for both girls. Funny thing is, she once told me last year I think, "I pay you some support. I am a good mom"

Forced deductions are not being a good mom. Putting your kids first is being a good mom. She is a dead beat, lost in whatever reality. The fall won't be pretty.
Posted By: Gordie

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/16/18 11:49 AM


I am a good mom

I think they have to keep telling themselves these things in their inner turmoil

I think of the beautiful advice OneArt gave DNJ

She was good when she gave her daughters to the one person who could care for them

You are as always an inspiration
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/16/18 02:15 PM


I am a good mom too.

However they can justify..at least she pays..
something however small

I see my friends who are D
Different stories
some XH pay still ( the successful ones)
some paid and continue to lower the payments as time moves on
kids are grown, but there is alimony

Both these guys are good Fathers..today

they were not always good fathers and one had little contact with the kids after the D
for many years

My friend intervened somehow to encourage forgiveness ,,
her XH reached out to her
he tried to reconcile
she said NO..but she helped him to reconcile with the kids

each LBS is different too and we have to do what is right and best for our situation

you clearly do that-

These women were also given the opportunity to do so because their XH were not addicted or alcoholics
the drugs make all the difference I believe in how these stories end-
Posted By: OneLessWife

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/26/18 05:54 PM

Any updates Irish
Posted By: marina7

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/26/18 07:13 PM


Wow, W sounds like my W.

Your Girls are so lucky to have a parent like you.

Keep standing by your girls. And all you can do is keep doing
what you been doing.

I have written this before.
I think your W is to far into the hole and can't find herself back.
Is so sad. How a mom can simply do this. My W did I always thought it was
Because they are adopted but it shows me when Mlc are in deep it doesn't matter.

Stay strong as you have. And once again your girls are lucky.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/30/18 12:56 AM

HI Gordie,

yes that quote is amazing and i feel its true. I hope its the reason she avoids the girls. So they don't see what she is doing.
Originally Posted by Gordie

I think of the beautiful advice OneArt gave DNJ

She was good when she gave her daughters to the one person who could care for them

Hi Peace

I would love to guide the girls to forgiveness. I won't only because drugs and alcohol are very present in XW's life.

I think of the day that they do connect and it does make me smile. Will it happen no clue. Will I help, most probably. Will the girls make the first move. Nope. Not until they feel and see positive things from their mom.

Hi OLW, hope you are doing good. thanks for checking in on me.

Hi Marina

Yes the W's seem very similar.
yes, i think she is in a hole, she was never one to face things on, roll up her sleeves and fight. Except for going after $ from the girls. But we can put that down as the new her.

You are all amazing people. Even the new people that come and post or just read. You are all here to find the solution, the magic formula. To share your tale so it can help others. Time is the only remedy. We all have something in common though. The love for our MLCr.

I had a dream the other night. I was sitting across from my XW. we were talking about each others version of events, laughing, I felt like i was flying, no weight at all. There was no tears or anger. Just talking about the past 3 years ..

when i woke up, i wanted so bad to talk to her. Thought about her all day. It didn't upset me . I guess my dream is what I need. What we all need. You can call it closure but it's not that.

Now, I know I have a better chance of having a double scoop ice-cream in h3ll without it melting a drop than me and my XW sitting down reminiscing lol but I'm at a point where I would say yes to it. A years ago, I would judge her and she would see it in my eyes.

hope you all had a great thanksgiving in the USA. Christmas is on its way, coming up fast. My house in he front is lit, this weekend is the backyard.

take care


Posted By: roist

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 11/30/18 07:37 AM

And the saga continues. Sorry to read as a year ago she showed some cracks of humanity that I hoped would have developed. Unfortunately she is stillvery stuck. I was going to speculate about what her thinking is but will refrain. For the moment it is irrelevant.

So back to her latest text. I would print it off and file it with her latest L communications. I probably wouldemail it to her L tbh, but a part from clarifying to the L that his client is the issue, there is no benefit for you and the girls to stir that up. But do save that message and have it for the next time you do have to reply to a L (maybeNį5!)

Regardless of how well you are doing, this is a long strain. Unfortunatelymoreso on your girls than for you. I trulyhope that they don't have long term issues or issues that resurface later in life. Having such a great dad will surely help them. I am glad they have such a steady solid parenting role model in you.

I posted recently on another thread about someone advising that even in unpleasant circumstanceswe should seek to be happy/joyful. A simple example is to find joy in the snow. Because whether you are joyful or not there is the same amount of snow.

I used to post often that in the crisis we are all facing here, there are three steps to aim for.
. Survive. Basically do what you can to cope
2. Live. Start living your life despite the situation
3. Thrive. I don't need to elaborate this one because you are thriving. You may say that you didn't have a choice. You dealt with the cards given to you. I disagree. Many people would not have managed to handle the situation and some would have fallen apart. So I will say what I and others have said to you before. Well done on the great way you are handlingthis.

Best wishes
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/26/18 03:47 PM

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas. Hope this year memories were made.

We ( me and the girls) had one of the best Christmas's in a long while. The girls were even giving GF a lot of hugs.
GF loved it. she knows its not easy for D18 and D16 and doesnt push anguishing.

no news from XW to me or to the girls. I saw someone who looks at her FB and twitter once in a while as she went through a MIDLIfe and is worried for XW. She said shes happy the dark messages of November are gone. They were close to messages of suicidal thoughts. Now its all about dumping people that aren't true friends and seeing who is really there for her. Life it too short and to get away from other peoples drama. Even quoted not my monkey .. not my circus.

I'm off for the next 12 days. Doing some small renos to make the house look top notch. I want it on the market by March. New house project on the horizon. Leaving these shadows here.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/26/18 04:25 PM

Good Morning Irish

Always nice to hear an update.

I am glad you all had a good Christmas. It is great to see daughters hugging GF, lots of acceptance and healing shown in that simple act.

It sounds like you almost have the house in tip top shape. A new year, and new beginnings, are just around the corner.

Leaving the shadows behind. Well said.

Posted By: AndrewP

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/26/18 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Irish M
Now its all about dumping people that aren't true friends and seeing who is really there for her. Life it too short and to get away from other peoples drama.
LOL - did she and my ex-wife get the same script pages?
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/26/18 08:27 PM

Happy Holidays to you and your daughters!

I am so very happy that this holiday was a really good one and the girls love your GF. I'm sure you'll have your house looking great for when the for sale sign goes up.

Wishing you and your family all of the best in the new year!
Posted By: OneLessWife

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/07/19 12:34 PM

Hows it going Irish....
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/11/19 03:02 AM

hi OLW
all good here . It's a New year and I have new views on life in the MLC world.
My resolution this year is to not judge my XW anymore. Really let it go. Even if she does some crazy outrageous things like she did in 2018. Just let it go.

D16 is back at school . Her first report card was in the high 80's. I guess that's B+ in the states.
D18 starts back at college end of next week. Shes looking forward to it. She finally got into the full time day program after proving herself in he late day and evening classes.

Both girls stepped up to get themselves out of the poor grades they had after their mother left. I am so proud of them both.

2019 will also be a year of adventure. So many trips planned. Ireland this summer will be our big one as well as all the kayak camping, Boston and New York. I will be 50 this summer and Ireland was always on my list to do at 50. That and Iceland. I might mix them both as Iceland is a HUB when lying to Europe.

House hunting is not going so good. The farm houses I visited were in such bad shape that I think I need to rethink the area we want to move. Or simply just build new with the old look

hope everyone else is good. happy New Year to you all. So many stories here. Some new, some old. I'm so grateful for those who help here and give great advise. For the newbies and the silent visiters. You are in good hands here.

Posted By: Vapo

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/11/19 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Irish M
hi OLW
2019 will also be a year of adventure. So many trips planned. Ireland this summer will be our big one as well as all the kayak camping, Boston and New York. I will be 50 this summer and Ireland was always on my list to do at 50. That and Iceland. I might mix them both as Iceland is a HUB when lying to Europe.

You better not be lying to Europe. We take stuff like that very seriously. laugh

Ireland is awesome, in fact I am just flying to Dublin next Wednesday.
Posted By: pinn

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/11/19 12:09 PM

Ireland is pretty great. Def check out the cliffs of Moher if you can... unbelievable. Stay in the town of Doolin and hike along the cliffs. It was amazing!
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/11/19 07:03 PM

I totally agree...Ireland is awesome! Such beautiful landscapes, lots to see and the Irish are such friendly and talented people. You will enjoy yourself for sure.
Posted By: rd500

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/12/19 07:01 PM

Hi Irish , i was in iceland in Nov, awesome place , be sure to go to the blue lagoon and if your heading to ireland , i would love to meet you for a Guinness!!!!
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/13/19 06:07 PM

Hello Irish

Nice to see the girls getting their grades back up. Good for them!

Ah, the joys of house hunting. You might get lucky and find something suitable and what you are looking for. However, there is a certain appeal to building new. You get the layout and look you want, with modern insulation etc....

Still, being the owner of a 150+ year old house, I can see appeal for the authentic character an old home brings.

Well now, that didnít promote much of anything. smile

It sounds like you have a busy summer shaping up. Should be a great time.

Posted By: JujuB

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/14/19 12:03 AM

Check out WOW air. They seem to have discounts from europe to the states with stopovers in Iceland. Boston trips were super cheap. I have been thinking of doing something similar.

Thats a great resolution. Much more then i am ready for. Glad your daughters are doing well.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/09/19 02:52 AM

Hi everyone.
Job, RD, Pinn, Vapo, JujuB, DnJ
you are all so right. Ireland will be our trip of all trips.
Me hitting 50 and spending it with my girls. I couldn't ask for anything else.

Vapo, no Lying in europe.. promise. lol. I`m Irish Canadian, I think it`s against my nature.
RD, would love to share a pint with you.

well, someones birthday just past. Went without a whisper from her. The girls said nothing. Was a regular day in the Irish household. For some it just came and went. XW did not even message them , telling them that they should respect her and wish her happy birthday. This was a first year of silence.

a few days past and D18 said.. oh it was Moms birthday a few days ago. I said yes. Then she went on saying.
You know dad. I`m not mad at her anymore. I don`t think about her as much.

I said, well I`m so happy the anger is gone. Time does that.

then she said. But if I see her I know the anger will come back. I`ll tell her straight.

I replied .. D18, that is ok too. You are allowed to express yourself in any manner you please. If one day you do see her and you need to express your feelings. Don`t hold back. Its for you to let it out.

a day after that it was mental health day here in Canada. D16 said to D18 . It`s sad, so many people with metal illness. Some don`t even realize it. I hope if I go off to left field you will pull me back in and get me help. D18 said. you know I will and Daddy will too. We are ( our last names) . We are strong, we communicate and we are there for each other.

D16 then said and started crying. It`s sad that Moms family didn`t help her or us. That they let her do what she did and even cheered her on.

I reminded them that even if her family tried. Their mom was on a mission, out of control herself.

thats why talking about it. sharing feelings, letting things not get bottled up is so important.

That was a few days ago. I then left for a 3 days days on business. I got back this evening. The house was clean, dishes done., driveway shoveled, back deck cleared off, dog cleaned and a supper waiting. They were on the couch watching youtube. I was in awe. i called them into the kitchen and thanked them. I usually come home and i need to pick up a few things and get the dishwasher going. D18 said, you can`t do it all alone daddy.

Like I always said here. Love your kids. They will surprise you and the added work you do to make sure they survive this will pay off.

have a good night and weekend. I know mine if off to a great start .
Posted By: Gordie

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/09/19 03:49 AM

O Irish

Your story made me so happy

You are an amazing dad

It only takes one sane parent

And you are a champ
Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/09/19 05:28 AM

Wow...wonderful tribute to a great dad. Sounds like your kids have learned a lot from you. I hope you have an AMAZING trip. Ireland is definitely on my bucket list. I did an Alaskan cruise with my twin for our 50th last year. Next week is 51. Crazy how much oneís life can change in a year. Hope you have a fantastic weekend!! smile
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/09/19 12:34 PM

You are Awesome and did such a great job with a very difficult situation

I am amazed and happy to read how so many LBS move on to create very productive, stable lives and how the kids usually adjust, forgive and thrive-
great testimony for the new person arriving here
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/09/19 03:12 PM


I smiled when I read your recent posting. You have been and continue to be a terrific dad and your girls know it. They are growing up fast and are acknowledging all that you have done to keep them safe and happy. What a wonderful homecoming!

Wishing you and your girls all of the best in the years to come and definitely enjoy Ireland...so much to see and do and the people are so gifted in the arts and I can't say enough about their being so friendly and helpful to strangers.
Posted By: mirage

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/09/19 05:38 PM


One parent can make all the difference.

Love your and your daughter's journeys. Awesome.

Posted By: marina7

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/09/19 07:45 PM


You're amazing dad,

This is so hard for us LBS, but when there is
young kids involved is so much harder.

And as you said Only with time
We all heal.

Your girls are lucky and so are you to have them. smile
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 03/29/19 01:49 AM

Hope you are all doing well in this journey we all share.

a little update from XW. Well it was me who had to reach out to her. Where I live we are having our property assessments done. The original property lines are outdated and they will be measuring properties with advanced equipment. I figure they are just looking to increase land calculations per property so they can turn it into tax revenue.

So they requested the original property plan that was used when I purchased the house. I need to have it or I need to pay a surveyor to redo it and get it stamped by the notaty at the bank. a few hundred dollars.

I looked all over and couldn't find it. Then it hit me. My XW when she left took a lot of paper work out of the files. Most of it was old files that should of been shredded any way. But this folder was a keeper. So i messaged her

the response i got was a no surprise.

I texted a simple question. Hi, would you happen to have the property plans we had done when we purchased the house?

she replied right away.

I don't need to hear from you. If the girls want to message me the door is open. It's not the case for YOU!!!

that's nice, but its not what I was asking about. The property plans we had when we went to the notary, do you have them?

Listen. I won't help you. I won't message the girls. You all have to understand I have a new life. YOU are not part of it.

XW, this isn't about the girls, you know they are teens and they won't make the first move. You are the adult. If you chose not to its a Dead end. Concerning me, i am not asking to be part of your life. I need only the plans for the property.
Sorry to have bothered you. I see anger is still prominent. Have a great day

Well YOU are not in my life!!! The girls know how to reach me.

So that didn't go as planned. lol . so i'm out 900$

I sense anger will be part of her path. It's sad really.

on a happier note. Girls are doing great in school. D18 she is top of her class this semester , a big change from last year. D16 is also hitting the honor roll. They have both stepped up in school and I am so proud.

As for myself. Planning our summer weekends and most of all our trip to Ireland after my 50th birthday. We are so excited.
I lucked out on the flights. I almost booked WOW airlines 2 weeks ago for the trip. Good thing I didn't , they just closed shop today. No refunds.

take care everyone.

Posted By: kml

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 03/29/19 02:56 AM

Phew! So glad you dodged the Wow bullet! You're a great dad and you'll have a fantastic trip with your girls.
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 03/29/19 01:49 PM


Some of them remain angry and bitter to the very end of time. I know that my xh is like that. I'm sorry she wasn't helpful and all she could have said was yes or no and nothing more. She just wanted to bait and vent at you. I'm glad you shut her down in a very polite manner. Your lawyer will be getting a letter shortly about the contact.

Gosh, I'm so glad you didn't book w/WOW. I saw the story on the news last night.

Congratulations to your D18 on being at the top of her class this semester and D16 is hitting the honor roll. It just goes to show just has great a father that you are.

I know that you will enjoy Ireland. It's a beautiful and magical place. The people are very friendly and very gifted in the arts. Lots to see and do.

Have a great weekend!
Posted By: CaliGuy

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 03/29/19 09:32 PM

Hey Irish!!

Your XW never fails to deliver a "wow...just wow" for me. In a realy strange way I feel sorry for her, if she ever wakes up, all that time lost with the girls she can never get back yanno?

You handled it better than I would have with 900 chicken tenders on the line, but what can you do.... ugh.

Good to see you still posting an update here, hope life treats you kindly my friend!!
Posted By: HaWho

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 04/07/19 04:15 PM

Irish - despite her usual antics, glad to read you and your girls are doing well.

You are a tank!
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 04/26/19 12:52 AM

Hi Irish,
sounds like all is the same in eew's world, "me me me and myself and I"

you and the girls are so far from where she left you all, and that's because you've done the hard work, set a shining example for your daughters and us reading along here.

so proud of your girls!!! what a great feeling of accomplishment they must have as must you as well.

50!!! getting up there, old bean! Welcome to my decade! May it bring you all good things! xoxoxo
Posted By: neffer

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 04/26/19 06:50 PM

Just keep the lighthouse shining for your girls. Be proud of who you are man.

My best wishes!
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 05/10/19 12:02 AM

Hi everyone.

KML yes, I dodged that WOW bullet.. so so happy.I would of lost 5K. It was a close call because I nearly clicked purchase a few times , I was just weary because of the stories I heard. lots of hidden fees when you check in to fly. Luggage being refused and so on.

HI Job, yes sadly the anger is still present. Sad for her because that will only build up negativity inside her and you can only take so much of that.

Hey Cali, life is treating me good. Girls are good and coping very well. Nothing else i need in life. Life is good.

Hi HaWho, not sure I'm a tank. Had rough spots during all this. Many ups and downs. Realized just lately that putting on a strong front and holding a lot in has its toll. The girls never suspected a thing, they see me a super dad.. I hid it very well from them. I was just prescribed with a mild anxiety prescription. It seems I worry too much about the girls if anything ever happened to me. All of us here take on a lot more than we are capable of. We hold the fort. Sometimes it takes months and years for that to have an bad effect on our health. With me it was my shoulders, upper body stiffness, tiredness and sometimes dizziness. Constantly wondering about what if something happens to me.

Feeling a lot more at peace. 5mg low dose but it has controlled my head from spinning. Had a complete check up as I thought it was a heart attack with the upper chest pains. Along with a bad cold. I was dying. Man cold right! lol.

Stress is not a friend to have.

Hi Bttrfly , Yes the 50 year old mark. I'm actually looking forward to it. Some perks to be had. A hardware store in Canada gives you a discount at 50 lol . I only found this out a few weeks ago. Was in buying some wood and paint. The cashier asked me for my age. I was insulted at first and figured it was the cold I had might which made me look weathered, but not 60. I said i'm not eligible. He said.. if you are 50 you are. Ohhh then I'll take that.

Hi Neffer
thanks for the support and good hearing from you too. Addition to what i wrote in my reply to HaWho. We can be strong but we can only hold in so much before we crack.

reminder to everyone. Please take care of yourselves. it does take a toll on us that's for sure. If we fall we can't be the tank. I needed a wheel alignment and oil change ... also I have to use the key thing we all learn here. We can't control everything and anyone. My girls have their own path. I need to stop worrying so much and continue to let them grow. I'm not going anywhere so they will be fine :-)

Wishing all the moms out there.. Happy mothers day. you are all amazing. xxx
Posted By: OneLessWife

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 07/30/19 01:29 AM

Irish how are things and do you have an update.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/14/19 02:30 PM


sorry it took so long to respond. Thanks for asking how I am :-). Hope you are good.

it's been a while I havent posted. As we get to the years and not months in this we tend to move on and understand that there is no answer to end it. we post less and our MLCr is more distant, less spew and less circus. That's if you were able to get off that train.

When I last posted I was hit with anxiety that never in a million years I would have expected to live. Its under control now and through a healthier diet, less sugar and less foods full of preservatives i have my system back to what it was.

I felt like I was dying and the fear of something happening to me , scared me for the girls future. Small health scare and I feared the worse.

Girls are good. School is a priority. My oldest 19 now is struggling to make and keep connections. She avoids people she doesn't know and doesn't give them a chance to enter her circle. She has elliminated a lot of old friends. Some should have been elliminated long ago but that's another story.

i know this is a huge red flag to having a crisis later in life. My XW had a similar childhood where she chose to not get close to anyone. Her mother and father seperated in a horrible divorce ( her mother MLC queen). reason she is in her own MLC today.

I will continue to help D19 and therapy is starting again this fall for her. She has asked for it so deffinitly a good sign.

My D17 is in her last year of HS. we are planning to move once she is done next summer. Very excited and leaving this house will be so healthy for us all.

I am receiving new mail in my XW name at my address. People magasine, 8 issues so far. Her name and my address. Also some insurance company and a private college brochure and Store magazines. Ikea, camera store etc. I write on them wrong address and leave them in the mailbox. Its weird she is using our address. Lost soul . For 3 years nothing came here and now this.

last month , XMIL (MLC queen) messaged me. One question. How are the girls?
Now to give a little bit of the back story to this. The last conversaton my D19 had with the grand mother was dear old grandmother calling her a liar and hung up on her. You see D15 was in the car with her sister and XW driving. XW got agitaed when D15 asked her about a hicky on her neck. She slammed on the brakes, made D13 at the time smash her face into the back of her seat. XW drove the whole way yelling at them. Punching the stearing wheel. D15 called her grandmother out of fear and asked her to help. Dear old grandmother called her a liar.

So her email to me to ask how are the girls? was a suprise.
I needed to respond.

so I asked her "Before I answer about the girls. Can you answer me why it took 4 years for you to ask about them?"

She replied.
Irish, what happens in a couple is between a couple. It must be accepted and the children are not to be involved. They are to be told to love both parents and accept whatever choices the adult makes.

ok ???
So you have no answer to why you abandonned your grandchildren in the time where they would have needed you the most. Clearly you don't remember or you chose not to face the reality of what your daughter did to them . I can send you the police report and your daughters emails to them, I am sure this will open your eyes on how your daughter had put them in this way before I knew what was going on. so please if you can't explain why you abandonned your grandchildren then I have nothing to say to you.

no reply and good riddance.

I turned 50 in May.. yayy. my gift to myself and the girls was Ireland. We had an amazing summer. Ireland was the highlight . 14 days. we planned to go back every 5 years but are already talking 2021. The drone footage and pictures I took are the best I have ever taken so far.

I hope everyone is fine. Taking care of themselves and not focusing too much on their MLCr.

I'll try to post more often . My MLCr doesnt give me much anymore except the new mail coming to the house.

take care
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/14/19 04:00 PM

I am glad you returned to give an update. I hope your oldest daughter will learn more about herself and why she feels the way that she does in therapy. I am glad she's open to it. The mess her mother created has been a huge issue for her even if she says that she doesn't really care. I'm sure there are many questions that she needs to find the answers to and she will in time.

I can't believe that your daughters are grown. Your youngest is in her last year of school and then on to a new home. Wonderful! The change will be so refreshing for all of you.

Ireland is a beautiful country and I don't blame you for planning another trip very soon.

Irish, you are a wonderful father who has been there for your children. You have been a good listener and sounding board for them, as well as their protector. I'm glad you asked their grandmother why she abandoned them. You won't hear from her again for a while.

As for the mail you are receiving...it's not an accident. Your xw has used that address to get you to contact her. The Mlcer tends to find ways to get our attention and/or contact w/us. I would advise the Post Office that she doesn't live at that address and would appreciate it if they would not put her mail in your box.

Take care of yourself and those lovely young ladies. You've done a great job in raising them.
Posted By: rooskers

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/14/19 04:34 PM

Irish M.,

While not exactly the same I feel like I am at the beginning of your crazy story. My XW one day said she doesn't love me and wants me to raise D13. She then told D13 at school she didn't love me and wanted me to raise her and would see her sometimes. She then dragged her through the entire school with other teens watching and deposited her in my classroom and left without looking back. Almost all summer long (3 month) she has ignored D13 and went on all these adventures with new friends. Now that summer is over and they can't party with her she wants D13 but when D13 is over there she goes from being angry with her to smothering her completely. She tells D13 that the only reason she doesn't see her more is because D13 and me created a visitation plan that prevented her from doing so. Even accusing D13 of telling her to stay away. I feel so bad for D13 because she was left for three months and now is being told by XW that it was her fault. I would love any help or kind words from you.

Posted By: rd500

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/14/19 10:15 PM

Hi Irish, good to see a post from you , can't believe you were on the emerald isle and we didn't get to meet , maybe next time. Glad to see D19 in looking after her mental health and i am exactly the same re friendships, im extremely out going and confident BUT i do not let many into my inner circle even though i have many ' friends' , i came from a broken home and it is sometimes a trait of being left by a parent , i can't imagine how i would be if that parent had been my mother.

As usual , no advice as you are a model to follow on here. Glad your health scare is over and your health is back to normal. Re exw and you MIL , ........ not worth going into.

Stay strong and keep being that incredible rock for your Ds.

Posted By: kml

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/15/19 07:01 AM

As for the Mail - my ex and I separated ten and a half years ago and the divorce was final 9 years ago. I bought the house I am in now 8 years ago and needless to say, exH has never lived here - but I still get occasional junk mail in his name (and once in his new wife's name!). Ex isn't doing it, it's just the modern computer world where the bits and bytes get jumbled together and assumptions are made about who else might be living in the home.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/15/19 10:42 PM

Hi Job
yes I don't think XMIL will reach out again any time soon. If she does i'll expect an answer.
thank you so much for your support Job. From day 1 here you have been an amazing friend.
As for the mail. Right now it finds it way on the garage floor in the recycle pile. Great idea for the post office to hold it elsewhere.

Hi Rooskers. I'll read up on your situation very soon. I started to and your situation is so similar to mine. 10 years before my XW's current MLC she did the same. It was short lived but now I see it was a warning sign of things to come. They call it a quarter crisis. Sadly your W is a teenager again. It's all about her and her quest for happiness. She is in a dark place. Sorry you are here.

would of been great to see you for a pint. You have been a source of strength for me in the begining and you continue to be a good friend . One day for sure we will enjoy a Guiness.
PLus, I have my degree in pouring the perfect pint from the Guiness factory. So let me pour you one

If it was junk mail I'd believe it was just a glitch in the system and they pulled up an old name and sent it out. These are paid for magazines. Also new mail ( not junk) with her name on it.

Now I didn't reach out to her to tell her to stop. I don't feel I need to. As Job said, I'll just have the post office stop it before it's delivered.

Hope you all had a great weekend. Fall weather on it's way. Love the colors. Love the fresh air.

Posted By: bttrfly

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/16/19 03:03 AM

Hi Irish,
Nice to read an update. Yes, we do move on here. I'm in the PostD forum mostly these days. Don't come to this side very often. Have to say, my son is the same as your daughter - he seems to keep friends at bay. Wasn't like this before. Won't go to therapy. I pray a lot.

Glad your health crisis is past. The move will be great for all of you.

I agree about stopping the mail at the post office.

Good for you for putting ExMIL on the spot. She deserved that. The girls deserve an answer to that question.

Take care,
Posted By: neffer

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/18/19 08:43 PM

Thanks for the update Irish, glad to hear from you and the girls.

You all take care

Hugs for all of you!!!
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/24/19 01:12 AM

Hi everyone

Hi bttrfly and Neffer :-)

so a little email Exchange from the XW.

It started with a warning. Irish, I am not mad at you or the girls. I have no hatred. If you respond with anything mean about me , my family or my friends... I will not respond.

I still believe you are keeping the girls from me. I was thinking about it and I think you do it for their own safety. How is it unhealthy to see me? They can reach out to me when they want .. if they want to. If they don't then that's ok too.

I think you trying to help them and me is a waste of time. Useless to try and i wouldn't undertand why.

Irish, No need to respond or message me .

so, I read this and it clearly shows me she is spinning. Also still very much in a fog of not understanding what she did and the reason the girls don't see her.

XW, I am sorry you still feel that way. I too am not angry and no hatred is felt towards you. I never once told the girls to NOT contact you. They have your number and email. If they chose not to then that's their choice.

Unhealthy , that is an easy one. Your choices and behaviour was at the time unhealthy. You still not asking me how they are in this message shows me it's unhealthy. Clearly you are not ready to face the music.

Don't expect me to be mean to you. There is nothing to be mean about. We are 4 years past the point where I should have been mean. I wasn't then, why would i be now.

I was surprised to hear from you. I am happy to hear from you actually. It shows me your thinking . That you are still denying and avoiding your actions. Until you realize the pain your caused your daughters and face up to it. We have nothign to say. That would be the waste of time. Connecting with your girls and dealing with your mess.. that wouldn't be a waste of time. Only you can drive that.

take care

I think she will take a day or so before she responds. If she responds.

she is still very much blocking out what she did and how. Shame for her. She's missing out on a lot.

Guess her new life is worth it.

Happy Monday everyone

Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/24/19 02:33 AM

Hello Irish

It is nice to hear from you. I think you handled XMIL just fine.

An interesting message from XW. She has always been scared or worried about you or the girls yelling or getting mad at her. Sheís got some strange things from her past lurking around, I think.

It is good to see that she is not mad, nor hates, you or the girls. She still has a long way to go for herself.

You sound really good. Are you and GF together?

How is daughterís brain cyst? No relapse or problems I hope.

Take care Irish

Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/24/19 02:49 PM

Your XW seems to have had the same general tape playing in her head for all her time in MLC

Not sure why the girls dont want contact and seems to think it must be because of you

She then adds, maybe you are protecting them from her- but she does not have a clue why that might be

or does she on some level know that her choices and new lifestyle may not be beneficial for the girls

Either way she does not sound like she is going to change anything at this point and her denial is strong

Perhaps at some point her bottom will be so great that she will have no choice but to look within

That is the unknown part for so many of these MLcers
Posted By: kml

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/25/19 01:51 AM

She still sounds really messed up. Drugs or mental illness, who knows, but she ain't right. She and DNJ's ex are a lot alike.
Posted By: Kyh

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 09/25/19 02:09 AM

Hi Irish, I hope you and the girls are well!

I found the magazine subscription so bizarre I had to comment on it. I got cosmo, et, people, Star, and a few others for all last year from my ex. I asked her about it and she said she joined a music club. Okay?? Lol In my 30 second search didnít find any that existed. Did your daughters have a school fundraiser recently? Thatís the only sense I can make of my subscriptions.
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 10/14/19 07:08 AM

happy thanksgiving Irish!
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/15/19 03:52 AM

Hi everyone.

Hope you all had a great american Thanksgiving and your shopping for Christmas is almost done :-)

I have a few small things left to buy. Amazon will fill in those gaps.

DNJ, thanks for asking about my daughter. Actually her condition is much better. we monitor her stress and diet. Over the summer she had a few spells. But minor. The cyst was now diagnosed as a brain Cavernoma. Its a weakend blood vessle. The symtoms she had was because it bleed. 1 in 200 people have these. Only 15% would have some sort of symptoms. It is usually found during an MRI when looking for something else. She's lucky because with some people it completely disabilitates them. Hers is also in a good place. No where near the brain stem.

We have a follow up MRI early 2020. If ever it does get worse because of its location they can lazer it.
I was asked to do an MRI as a genetic test to see if i have it. They seem to run in famillies.

Hi Peace, yes her hitting bottom is not any time soon. I know christmas in the past she would reach out. Last year it was only to me wishing me love and happiness. Nothing to the girls.

Hi KMl. mental illness is my diagnosis for my XW. I help with the homeless shelters this time a year. A lot of lost souls with mental issues. Sure self medicating takes them to another level. But the core of it all. Something wrong upstairs .

Hi Kyh, Yes the subscription is odd. They keep coming . 3-4 a month. I keep looking for an invoice in the mail. 250$ for 54 magazines. My girls have no fund raising besides their help with me handing out warm blankets and jackets to the homeless. It's in my XW name.. maybe her mother did it so the girls see their mothers name. no clue.

Happy thanks giving bttrfly. ((( hugggss ))) Hope you are well. i know you are in another forum here. SO i dont catch up as much or read all of your posts.

Update for me is My house is going up for sale. We found one and put in an offer yesterday. It was approved so now its off to get it inspected. Its an older home but was build for me. My GF is moving in with us so we will be 5. me, my girls, my GF and her son.

Plenty of land and rooms. A huge upgrade from this house. Girls are overly excited. They just want this chapter of this house where their mom lived is over. They feel haunted by her. Sad.

We will be continuing therapy as it was stopped and now restarting . Great communication is being had. Girls are really opening up , even more than they had in the past. They are amazing, strong women. I am a proud daddy.

I'll check in soon with house news and to wish you all either a merry cristmas, happy hanukkah, happy holidays, winter soltice , Las posadas, happy new years and chinese New year. Lots of reasons to be with family. xx take care
Posted By: kml

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/15/19 04:58 AM

If you need a brain MRI and genetic testing, so does your ex wife.
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/15/19 03:28 PM

Hi Irish

Congrats on the new home and all the terrific movement in your life

Happy for you!!

Happy Holidays!
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/15/19 04:18 PM


Merry Christmas to you and your family. Congratulations on the new home and many new memories will made once you and the girls move in.

I am happy to read that your daughter is doing well. I am keeping her in my thoughts and prayers and may the MRI in 2020 show that things are still okay and no additional growth in the cyst.

Enjoy the holiday season!
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/19/19 04:03 AM

Hello Irish

I had to look up Cavernoma. Thanks for sharing what was eventually diagnosed. As it sounds, daughter has a good location for any treatment that could become necessary. I am glad to hear this hasnít impacted her too much.

I was wondering if you would be giving an update about GF - and look at you! Moving in! You and her and the kids. A family of five. Congratulations!

The old house always had a haunting affect as youíve mentioned before. It is time to close that chapter and start a new one.

Youíve got a fantastic family Irish. And I include GF and her son in that, as theyíve been part of things for some time now.

Peace to you and your.

Merry Christmas.

Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/21/19 08:30 PM

Hi Kml, Peace , Job and DnJ

thanks for the support.

Kml, I will start with me and D19. It's a wait to have this test done. I doubt XW is interested.

DnJ, yes family of 5. The girls and her son treat each other already like brother and sisters. So protective of each other.
We did it right. took it slow. No pressure on the kids. Didnít do the harsh move in and treat the kids as take it or leave it like most parents.

We sadly just refused a house that we picked out. It didn't pass my inspection. You see I sell equipment to building inspectors. So, I was able along with a qualified inspector to see the state of the house. I knew and was looking forward to the upgrades I had to do but the condition of the roof structure would be too much. Also, electrical not to code and I would have to redo it all.

So, we are still looking. I know we will find the right one. It's out there.

Small update on XW.

I had to go to the bank to release some money to D19. Its a college fund I put aside.
The one XW tried to steal when she left.

Well, the last time I transferred money from it last fall, I had to go through my lawyer to get XW to sign a form to remove her name. I donít like having her name on D19 money and she doesnít contribute to it, so no point. When I set up these college funds for the girls, I added XW name to the placement in case something happened to me, she could transfer out.
It was set up that we can put money in at any time. If we withdrew money it would go straight into D19 account. Not ours, not mine and definitely not XW.
So I go and sign the form to release some money and I see XW name still there. I asked the bank, why is XW name still there. She was supposed to sign the form to have it removed. Well XW never showed up and it got forgotten. They did try to reach her several times. SO I remind them the lawyers made it clear. Remove her name. The bank says they will try to reach her again.

Later that night I get an e-mail.

XW Ė Iíll sign on Monday, you are welcome. I am glad to help.
I reply Ė thanks.
Day goes by.

XW Ė Iím happy you and the girls are doing good. From what I hear you are all happy. I wish you a happy Christmas and all the best for the New year. I only wish that I can connect with my girls in 2020. Iím always available anytime for them. I will do anything you think would help that happen. You know itís in their best interest Ö
Iím seeing a therapist still. Maybe we can all go together? Tell your parents I miss them as well, they were great. Have a good day

Well I got this and it sounded like I heard it before. Oh wait, last Christmas.

I replied Ė XW, did we have any choice but to move on and be happy. I would like nothing more then the girls connecting with you. Iíve tired over and beyond these past 4.5 years. It was never accepted by you. I am glad you are still seeing a therapist. Mention to them your suggestion of us all going. Iím pretty sure they will say not a good idea as individual therapy is still needed. The girls have their own still and will probably need it for quite some time.
Thanks for getting the papers signed.

No asking if they are ok or updates. I find that has become what I want from her. That will show me empathy and caring has truly returned to XW.

Iím sure Iíll hear from her one more time before New years.

Also if she really wanted to reach out to her girls she would simply email them, call them or Facebook messenger them. To which that is very open.
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 12/21/19 08:50 PM

I am so sorry about the house, but you did the right thing in not purchasing it. The right one will come along in 2020 and it will be the perfect fit for all of you.

As for your xw, I am so sorry she's still out there and all she has to do is contact them through the various social media avenues.

Keep an eye on your D's college fund. She may not sign it again this week. This may be her only avenue for communication w/you and I do not think she forgot about signing and removing her name the last time around. I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

Wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas! May the new year bring a life full of pleasant surprises and a new home for all of you.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/20/20 02:58 AM

Hi everyone.

This was an interesting week. With XW's birthday coming up i guess she is feeling the need for her kids. I got a few messages expressing her desire to connect with the girls. If I can help her.

she started with a text.
Hello. I was wondering about the therapy. Group with me and the girls. You can join us as well. to get things moving along. she had mentioned this just before Christmas.

Hi, not sure that would be a good idea just yet. They are currently in their own therapy trying to deal with the abandonment. Sorry to be frank. It is hitting them hard the past few months and they have lot on their plate. Hope your therapy is going good. take care

well Irish. I think its time. You know I am there for them. I want to be involved in their therapy.

I waited the next morning to reply.

XW, i'm sorry but it's not a good idea at the moment. Surely your therapist would agree with me. There will be a time hopefully soon. Have you tried writting them. Their emails havent changed , nor has their cell phones. Let's see how everyones personal therapy goes and discuss it with the therapists. have a good day

So 4 days goes by. No more texts but an email.

Irish, why do I get the feeling that you are trying to manipulate me. You clearly aren't helping the girls and punishing me because I left you is wrong. Keeping the girls from me. You know when a couple seperates the kids should be made to love each parent the same no matter what. They shouldn't be made aware of others choices and should not have a word to say about it. They should accept it for what it is. Why can't we talk like adults. I feel you diminished my choices. The only thing I am angry at you is that. Keeping the girls from me.

They will come back to me and love me, I'll accept them like we were never apart.

P.S. If you write back, I only answer to positive and ignore the negative.

I read this and said to myself. WTF... WOW. she's still very much lost in her alternative reality.

I did reply. How could I not.

XW, I read your email and to be honest I am surprised. How after 4.5 years you can still think I am keeping the girls from you. D19 has her own car she is a free adult woman. If she was ready to face you she would have done so.

your mother wrote me a few months ago. said the same thing word for word about divorece and kids loving each parent. What you both tend to forget is either of you have attempted to see them or reach out to them.

I'm tired of repeating what you did. Maybe some small points will be eariser to understand.

- you told the girls when you left you didn't want to be a mother
- you chose to run instead of comforting your daughters about our seperation.
- choice of guys you dated . If the table was turned You would not encourage the girls to see me.
- never gave them your address where you live.
- only time you did reach out to them was to blame them for your pain. Last email to them was in early 2017
- sent a balif to the house on D19's 18th birthday to take her to court to stop paying her child support of 25$ a month .

so please, enough with the bull. Consider me answering these messages my way of helping. If you don't want to face the truth don't try. I won't entertain you as the victim. I truly hope one day you will figure this all out. take care

She followed my email with a text this evening .

You do know I love the girls. In your heart you know that. My choices of boyfriends and if they have their own issues it is their problem. I am not responsible for their actions or what ever you have heard about them.
have a good night

Actually XW, I question your love for them at this moment. 5 years ago I saw your love and felt it for them. There was action and genuine care.

As for you boyfriend past and present. I'm sorry, you chose them it is your responsibility. If they drink to get drunk , do drug and mistreat women, that is an environment the girls do not need . I agree we are all responsible for our own actions. But there is a thin line on what we introduce to the girls. That is on you.

Lets step back because clearly we are not on the same page. If there is something important about the girls I will let you know. take care .

So next week is her birthday. This will probably fade away into the never happened. I do wish her well. One day it will all come back to her.

No remorse and still blaming the girls and me. Still far from the light

take care everyone.

Posted By: OwnIt

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/20/20 03:34 AM

It is interesting that she thinks two virtually adult woman would not know that their mother was absent for five years. How is that something you told the girls? The choices that matter, the ones that involved no mother, are the ones that were patently obvious. Were you supposed to convince the girls she was in the living room knitting? How exactly were you supposed to make them love her? How are you keeping them from her when you constantly encourage her to call and write and she doesn't do it?

Half the time she tells you she doesn't need or want your help and you can only speak to her through her lawyer, the other half of the time she is chastising you for not helping after asking in a completely inappropriate manner.

I know it doesn't help anything, but yours is about the saddest case. As a woman, I just can't get this at any level. It just seems like if it is not mental illness then it has to be drugs, or both.

Mine gets crazy around his birthday every year too. It is hard when that time is near the holidays, seems to make it worse, but then thankfully it is over.

I hope the girls, their health, and the relationship are going well. You and the girls deserve that happiness in your life.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/20/20 04:32 AM

Hello Irish

I feel for you.

Itís interesting XWís repeated desire for group therapy, which includes you in the mix. I wonder how and what she figures that would go down like. I agree this is not the time for that. Sheís got some other conversations that need to be have first.

You know when a couple seperates the kids should be made to love each parent the same no matter what. They shouldn't be made aware of others choices and should not have a word to say about it. They should accept it for what it is.

My XW said the same thing. Yeah, no other choices but to love me and everything I did and do. Oh and no one should have anything to say about it.

My response was that the kids have hearts and minds of their own and know their values and morals. The very traits that she instilled within them over the years. Of course XW didnít like that. smile

Irish, I have much empathy and respect for you. Your XW is pretty far off the map.

Your conversation with XW is nothing really new. Same blaming of you by her, and the same deflection from her. I did like the point form, even though it will likely not get through. Although little by little some will eventually seep in.

She repeatedly seems like she wants to contact the girls. Gets consumed by guilt, shame, and fear. Then blames you, since she cannot face her actions. Then a while later, it repeats. This has happened quite a few times.

A positive in all this, every future conversation is a little better than before. Some of those first ones ended with her pretty mad. This current reiteration has her having longer conversations and sort of responding to some of the valid points you make.

I really like the stating of facts, that the girls are adults and their emails and phone numbers are the same as before. Nice and even keeled from you; demonstrating a lot of patience.

It is sad to see how little remorse she shows, how little growth she has achieved. You are correct, she is still far from the light.

Your progress is most evident. Keep shinning.

Posted By: rd500

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/20/20 09:03 PM

Hi Irish , happy new year ,I too had to google your daughters condition and as it seems it's not in a dangerous place so that's fantastic news. Sending positive thoughts her way.. great news on your house hunting and your blended family ,, congrats you deserve every happiness and after the rock you have been for your daughters it's great they have you and your lady friend as positive role models in their lives.

Your Exw appears to be coming out of her fog , I say this because I often wonder how a mother who leaves her children can come to terms with what they did ( once the fog starts.to clear) . How can they accept responsibility for what they did, it cant be easy. I'm not saying it should be easy of course but alot of pepple struggle to accept thier errors so trying to accept that you walked away from your children must be almost impossible.

It took me a good while to accept I had my fair share iof blame n my marriage breakdown, not how Exw left or acted after she left but the lead up to BD. So when I try to imagine how a mother can accept her choice to leave her children once the fog starts to clear , I just can't see how she can come to terms with it. That day may come for your Exw but I believe she might never get there 100%. While shes struggling to get there she has to lay the blame at someone door and you are the prime target. As always you handle these exchanges with class and you don't get drawn in. A true sign you have moved forward with your life.

I hope you find your dream home soon and your family continues to get stronger and stronger.

Take care, Rd
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/21/20 01:15 AM

I like the way you responded

just the facts
no real judgement and way less anger thank in years past
more acceptance

I like how you said this next line--perfectly said--well done

"Consider me answering these messages my way of helping.really it is"

She needs to hear the truth
no more sugar coating at this point like we did in the start of the crises
Hopefully she will wake up
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/21/20 02:16 PM


I like the way that you have responded to your XW. She has a long way to go and let's face it, she may never fully wake up and accept the fact that she is the one that has burned her bridge between her daughters and herself. It's truly a shame because your daughters are growing up and will soon be out on their own.

I hope all is well w/you and the girls and your daughter's health issue is doing much better.
Posted By: Gerda

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/22/20 05:38 PM

Irish, I think you handled it really well. My H recently told me that he was ready to take both kids, full time, no help from me, even though he is trying to sell our house from under us and has not given a penny in child support since this started, except as a credit off ED. My son hasn't spoken to H since he moved out in June, and rarely spoke to him in the few years before that.

So reading your post, I admit that, while it was heartening to see as ever what a great dad you are, it was kind of disheartening to think of all the years that have passed and how she is still living a false narrative. I guess some of them never wake up.
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/30/20 05:00 AM

Hi eveyone. I know I don't post often as my MLCr has been quiet. Just before her birthday she started messaging me. A usual event around her birthday or mothers day. Her last messages was all about blaming me and the girls. I asked her to step back a little and reflect on the conversation we were having via email and text. Silence didn't last long.

be warned the exchange i had with her will really make you say WTF, I shouldn't have interacted as much as i did.

I don't think its a coincidence her reaching out to talk today as it is mental health awareness day here in Canada.

I get an email saying lets talk. via phone and not email or text. Can I call you at 4pm after my work.

I say sure, I'll listen to what you have to say. I'll Just listen as I am tired of repeating myself.

Irish, if we are to communicate I will need you to answer any questions I might have. we need to work together for the girls.

XW, I have questions to but lets see waht you have to say first.

4pm on the dot.. ring....ring... do i answer or not. I answer. hello.

Hi irish how are you? so what can i do to get the girls to talk to me. I think its about time. I understand they are mad at me and you are protecting them from me.

XW, i am not protecting anyone. D19 is an adult and D17 is almost there. Have you written them? we discussed this. I don't think they received anything from you. I have told them they can reach out to you and they have your contact info. You need to email them. If it's still about me keeping them hostage or what ever we have nothing to talk about.

ok ok irish. I believe you. I think we need to work on a plan.

I have my plan. it's to parent them and love them. If you have a plan I hope it works but I can't help you.

you know Irish . i know i did bad things. i yelled at them but I loved them too . I had to leave, for my own good.

Do you even remember what you did and said to them. It scarred them. in therapy they talk about it like it happened yesterday.

I don't remember everything. I know they stoll from my apartment and they should of respected me.

stole? they took what was theirs and you lost the rest when you skipped out on your rent.

It was 800$ a month. what was i supposed to do.

XW. I can tell them to read your next email if you send it. I can tell them to be respectful. Will they listen to me. Maybe yes , maybe No. They have a lot of pain still . it will vent out.

you know irish. i am in a new home. its smaller and a bit further away. my boyfriend is not what you have heard. he hit rock bottom when i met him. people now tell me that i changed him for he better. you see his wife left him with their 3 kids. it almost killed him. His kids are adults now and they see their mom. we even have breakfast all together as a family.

well XW, your story sounds familiar. Seems you went to save a man who was hurt.

you have no idea. she had told him at the time . i love you but not in love with you and just took off.

wow. do you hear yourself. don't you realize that is what you did to me, to the kids. i'm sorry. I have to go. This conversation is over.

Irish, its not the same. we didn't work.

bye XW. email the girls. its between you and them .

unbelivable.. I know not to take it personal but her telling me she saved a broken man from his pain. The theory is right on the money. MLCr will seek out LBS and a connection is made. Without even understanding that they did the same thing. I've read it here before. I shouldnt be surprised but it still stings.

Also a depressed person will cling to a broken person to fix them so they feel better for themselves.

I get a text. Whats the girls email adresses.. So i forwarded her last email to them. it was in 2017.

lets see if she finally makes a move to email them.

have a good night everyone.


Posted By: Gerda

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/30/20 05:24 AM

WOW, Irish. This is incredible. The denial about her kids is obviously a defense mechanism on some level, still it's crazy that she as no idea about them. But even more crazy is that she would not only believe all that about the LBS thing with her BF but that she would think you want to hear about it -- and that she would have no idea that she did that exact same thing to you!!!! WOWOWOWOWOW. I wonder what she imagines you think happened. I guess they have no awareness that we are humans made of flesh so they don't really consider it.

I am starting to wonder if my H will ever wake up. Your story often makes me wonder, there is like zero awareness by your XW, though I guess she is starting to want to reach out to your kids in her twisted way. Mine started in 2013 so I guess I have actually been at it longer! I always find it amazing how they sometimes reach across the boundaries after their pillaging of our entire village and say, "Okay,but come on, we have to obey these other rules here."
Posted By: OwnIt

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/30/20 06:15 AM

Gerda, Irish and his wife just grew apart. That's all. Nothing more there.

Irish I also saw mine demonize the children. Mine are entitled brats, yours are thieves. Would have been interesting had you been able to get to the part of her questions. I bet they would have been doozies. I'm going to make a prediction--she isn't going to email the children. After mine has been away for long periods, he is always afraid of rejection and looks for some sign that they will accept him before he communicates with them. He does this by having flying monkeys (lawyers, school administrators, insurance companies) contact me. I think if the girls ever do want to talk to her, they will probably have to send her an email and be ginger with her. Why they'd want to, I have no idea, but my guess is that is what it will take.
Posted By: kml

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/30/20 11:31 AM

Wow Irish. ďWe just didnít workĒ? Seeing the way youíve been with your girls, if she couldnít make it work with you, how could she make it work with anybody???

The denial is amazing though. I remember my ex telling me a story about a patient of his whose husband had left in a MLC. A few years later he wanted to come back but she said too much water under the bridge. Apparently he forgot all about that warning when he left me a few years later.

You did the right thing though. This is between her and the girls, not your job. It might be better in the long run for your girls to have a cordial if distant relationship with their mom, but they have the right to decide when or if they want to do that. My ex (whose mom was a WAS when he was 17) didnít reconnect with his mom until he was 26 or 27. (At my urging). They have a good relationship now. Of his two brothers, one waited until his 40ís and one in his 60ís still hasnít reconciled.
Posted By: DnJ

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/30/20 12:46 PM

Good Morning Irish

Wow, XW is lost in denial. She is unable to see the parallel between her and her BFís XW. That woman was a bad person and XW saved him, thatís XWís narrative. And very few people are the villain in their own stories.

XW does project her guilt and shame outward to you and the girls. Still so sure they stole from her, and so many other things. Denial, an inability to see; not ignoring - she really cannot accept the facts. So she believes other ones.

However, I do think XW has some modicum of growth / progress. Not so long ago a direct and forward conversation like you had would have never lasted that long, she would have hung up long before.

She is reaching towards the girls. Another sign of progress. Itís their relationship - daughter(s) and mother. You wisely know you donít fix that relationship; you can gentle steer it a bit, maybe, carefully. And that is in the direction of the girlsí growth - acceptance and forgiveness. Nothing big on your part, if anything (you know your situation best and are well healed) just letting them know itís ok to contact their mom. Youíre ok if they contact their mom. That being said, leaving sleeping dog lay might be best for now. If XW does reach out directly, maybe then encourage the girls a bit.

Irish, that was an amazing proof of the affect of a crisis. Yes, it does sting. And itís not about you. A crisis person is emotional and irrational. Awakening from such a state, to put oneís feet back in the rational world, I imagine is a difficult path. She is walking, convoluted and confused, poking out once a while.

Mental health awareness day certainly took on a different meaning after all Iíve seen.

Youíre a good man Irish.

Have a great day.

Posted By: peacetoday

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/30/20 03:17 PM

and while they stay in denial
their story in their mind gets validated by their
therapist, family and friends

they really believe it

I really think many MLCers will stay caged, and
only if all the addictions are stopped and they hit a huge bottom and are forced to shift will they snap out into reality

she sees glimpses, and paints herself as the hero...she saved this poor soul
and in her world...her freinds may also see her as that
and her kids as just bad kids

Only she can break the cycle...but shes not ready yet

keeps trying to do the same reach outs over and over not realizing they dont work
that is a form of insanity
Posted By: job

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 01/30/20 03:45 PM


I am not surprised at what she said. She's a very lost soul, painting herself as a victim and a rescuer of sorts. She has created this fantasy scenario in her head about saving this man and doesn't realize that she is talking about herself and what she did to her husband and girls. So very sad.

I may be wrong, but if she does email the girls, it will be short and really not much of one. As you have pointed out many times, the girls are old enough to make their own decisions about whether or not to have any contact w/her. She just doesn't get it...they do not want to be involved w/her as long as she is the way that she is.

Again, so very sad. She has lost so much respect and trust from the people who loved her.

Sending warm hugs and positive thoughts your way today.
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/03/20 01:18 AM

What Kml said, Irish - if she couldn't make it work with you, who could she make it work with? Again with you being the Big Bad Wedge between her and the girls she walked away from. She sure has a hard time remembering her part in anything, doesn't she?

Yes, you gave her too much time. You know that, so I don't need to go further. Nothing has changed here, so keep moving forward.

I've recently had a conversation with my son. I told him that I accepted a financial hit in the divorce to keep things cordial so he wouldn't be dragged in the middle of any nastiness, or feel like he had to pick sides. I said that the most important thing to me was his peace of mind and well being, money can always be earned. I wanted his relationship with his dad to be free of as much baggage as possible from the divorce. I also told him that as a result I felt that I cleared the way as much as possible and the rest was up to them. His relationship with his dad is his responsibility. How it goes from here is up to them to figure out. You've always said the same to both eew and the girls. I'm glad you're holding firm on that.

I'm really sorry she doesn't see how hurtful and insulting her conversation was towards you. But then again, she's never been able to see past her own nose. So very sad, Irish.. I'm glad you've moved on and you're free except for the occasional poking her head out of her rabbit hole. You've got so much to look forward to, try to wash this out of your mind.

Posted By: DejaVu6

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/03/20 02:32 AM

The rescue theme was alive and well in my sitch too. And...XH is estranged from his eldest. I tried to help early on but she is an adult so I have left it up to him to figure out. As with your girls... I just parent her (when she needs it) and love her...that is my only job right now. Sorry your girls are so hurt. The WAS really does delude themself into thinking only the LBS suffers for their choice. Sadly...we know different. You cheat on your spouse, you cheat on your family...and they will never trust you the way they did before...even if forgiveness happens. Your girls are lucky to have such a great dad. (((HUGS)))
Posted By: Irish M

Re: Standing our ground - together as a family - 02/03/20 04:03 AM

New thread :

And we keep moving on
© 2020 DivorceBusting.com