Link to my last thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2784859#Post2784859Thanks one and all for the wonderful support. Bttrfly - I loved the quote. Cil, Coly, Roist, Irish and Job, special thanks.
I know I have been MIA. It is a slog over here.
The amount of anger oozing out of my ex is truly extraordinary. It is exactly as it written: he looks to start fights and stir up drama where there are absolutely no problems whatsoever. I see tons and tons of control issues surfacing.
There are loads of childish threats: "I offered you my friendship but now I retract it." This is one he's stated a few times and he retracts "the friendship" anytime I do something he doesn't like. For example- me: I'd like to see your 401k statements since the ones you gave to your lawyer are from 2015 when you falsely claim the m ended. Him: crazy whirling reminiscent of the Tasmanian Devil followed by an email declaring "the friendship is over!"
It takes everything in me NOT to reply back: THANK GOODNESS! Now leave me alone.
He is a constant presence in my life.
Here's a funny story. I think Job will get a kick out of this one. One night when ex had the kids they needed to come back here for some of their stuff. And they told me ex needed my stapler! I went out to the car and politely asked him to purchase one as I really needed this one here for the kids. Spoiler alert: he got angry. He told me the stapler was 50% his and rolled up the car window on me. Ugh. He think I am his personal Walmart.
There are so, so many examples of control issues. He tried to file our joint taxes without me seeing them! No joke. And then a few days before the deadline I contacted the accountant to ask what was going on? Where are my taxes? I had lost track of time. Well, he gave them to ex. And so I tell ex I need to see those and I need to sign so we can file. Silly me is thinking he's a space cadet and is going to miss the deadline. Nope. He purposely sent them off without my signature and said it wasn't needed! I sent him a pic of the instructions saying both spouses MUST sign to file. Quite astounding that he thinks I don't need to see my taxes.
And of course there was an asset there which was not declared on his statements to his lawyer.
We have business with a woman who had to interact with him on something. I politely forewarned her ex is not himself. I told her when she made that request she better be ready to block him a she would text her 20 times. She downplayed it. Days later she got a dose of what I was talking about as ex texted her a zillion times about nothing really; creating a problem where there was none. Then she came back saying he was nuts. Yep.
Otherwise, I am focusing on the good in my life. I am being supported by friends and family. Many, many people have come forward to be there for me. One friend said she's there for me "for better or for worse." And she has been.
There are so many wonderful people in my life. Here's one small example. When ex wouldn't give me one of our cars after my accident (because he drives the dog in that car!) a friend at work loaned me her dad's car as he was out of the country. This friend is not very well to do. When I returned the car I paid her a good part of what I would have paid for a rental as thanks to her I had the time to car shop without stressing about the costs of a rental.
When I gave her the money, I suspected she would use it to visit her mom who lives in Mexico. She has been wanting to see her for a while and doesn't have the funds. The day I gave her the money she said: "guess what I am going to do with it?" I said: "see your mom!" She said: "no, this will make you cry" (she has seen me cry quite a bit these last few months and knows me well). She gave the money to a distant relative she never met who fell off a ladder and needs quite a bit of rehab. She is one of the most extraordinary real people I have ever met. She is a giver.
When you file in CA, there is a mandatory 6 month "cooling off period" until the d can be finalized. Cracks me up that this is THE cool off period! It is the worst he's ever been. I think the last few years was just a simmering for him.
Each day I just thank goodness I made it another day. And all I think is someday this will come to an end. Someday this will be in the rear view mirror of my life.
OMG! He is so much like my xh. I remember my xh taking stuff from the house and one of the things that really bugged me is that I had just purchased some very expensive hand cream for my hands. Well, the nut came in while I was at work and took it. I shamed he so badly about taking it, that when we went to have our taxes done, he attempted to put it in my car and my alarm went off. LOL! He had to bring it in and give it to me in front of the accountant. After the taxes were completed the accountant told me that he looked and acted like a complete nut. HaWho, I can so relate to the stapler story.
Stand your ground...he doesn't want to have to purchase anything more than he has to. Rest assured, when he has the opportunity to come in....the stapler may very well disappear.
I can't believe he sent the taxes off w/o your signature, which means a delay in any returns that you may get. He is just being a complete @ss about everything.
Keep up your excellent acting skills...do not fall into his dark hole w/him.
Hawho
How are you doing
How are the kids
Your post is so upsetting
The immaturity is astounding
I feel so bad about what you are having to endure. I hope all this energy burns out soon and he goes back to his wallowing self. I'm so grateful that mine plays hide and seek and leaves us alone most of the time.
Thanks Job, Gordie and Ownit for the reach outs. Very much appreciated.
Gordie - to answer your questions, I am ok. This process is as much a rollercoaster ride as is MLC. My kids are also seem to yo-yo. S14 has a lot of anger. They both have waaaay too much information and are much too involved by ex. That part is really sad.
Ex continued to pick up kids on my days, messaging through them and just scheduling things on my time. It has been truly obnoxious. Finally had my court date and the judge told him he needs help with boundaries and she told him to stop contacting them on my time to can see him. It was a vindication because for months now I have been following the rules while he acts like a frat boy gone wild doing whatever he wants when he wants.
Then we both agreed not to discuss any of these matters with our kids (which I knew he was incapable of following). And then he went and gave his spin and openly discussed everything with them.
He just has zero respect for rules. He is outwardly rebellious. And because he is so vocal, he has the kids seeing things through his world lens. He has told them that I am keeping them from him when all I am saying is on my time stop contacting them to see them on my time. It's truly insane.
He uses scare tactics and tell the kids it is not safe for them to be home for 1 1/2 hours at my house before I return to work. As he has a flexible schedule he says he should be able to pick them up. Judge said no, there is no safety issue. She said if they were 6 and 8, yes, but at 12 and 14, no, they are fine for that time. (Oh and he left them alone longer than that when he lived here!) Talk about one set of rules for him and a other for me. My L argued if I can't leave them alone for 1 1/2 hours before I return from work, then he can't ever leave them alone either for 1 1/2 hours.
Is he stuck in a time where he thinks they are younger than they are or is this a control issue? He treats them like they are little. He says it's not safe for s14 to walk home a few days for a 1/2 hour walk. S14 was doing this when ex lived here so I have no idea why now it's an issue.
But meanwhile he seems to be playing Disney Dad to them. He wants every thing to be fun and he's quite a buddy to them.
I think there will be a day where it will be as Heather said. He may never admit it but I think he'll have a moment where he'll realize there was nothing in our M that warranted blowing things up like this. Because it makes no sense. Again, I don't think he'll ever admit it though.
Oh and Job, his L is bad. At one point he asked my L what the basics were to our agreed to stipulation that was drafted him and my L! (How would he know if she was telling him everything?!?) And my L was able to get him to agree to something in that stipulation that I am not sure he understood he agreed to! I even said to my L, there was NO way ex would agree to that. I think he wrote it but never cleared it with ex! Because then when we went in front of the judge his L tried to back peddle on that and h was clearly mad that he agreed to that! Gosh, it's worth it to get a good lawyer.
My L was really prepared, over prepared in fact. I had armed her with texts that proved my case. H had nothing. And when my L read the damaging texts, ex's L countered: "well I am not sure we need to go through all these texts."
Seriously?!? Um, it's called "evidence," isn't this required? Duh. Uh, not sure where ex found this guy. Hope he checked he's really a lawyer.
Anyway, I am thankful there is a custody plan in place and that he has some boundaries around him in this arena. Let's see how he does with them.
I think of you all often. And I am proud that I stood. I have no regrets. I know something happened to my ex. I know he needs to go figure himself out and to really do that he needs to go out there try everything.
Thank you all. You know who you are . . .
Hawho
Thanks for the update
I think of you often too
Your H and his L sound like quite the duo
Not sure if L is terrible
But H is definitely crazy
Adter my w dropped the d
Her L confided to my L that he thought she was off
She kept contradicting herself
Forgetting things
Agreeing and then disagreeing
Who knows what H has told his L
Glad judge backed you up re the kids
So sorry your H is trying to brain wash them
But think kids know who is the sane parent here
Stay strong
How is your mental health
Sleep
Tennis game
Support network
It is always so great to hear from you. I just have to scratch my head about your H. I do not get him. Not at all.
He ignored the kids when he lived in the smelly dorm room, but now he wants to be super dad? Why isn't he out on the town hitting on all the skanks he's been deprived of? How does he have so much time to hound you and these kids like they are toddlers who need constant care.
Thank goodness for a judge that takes the time to see what is really going on.
How are you dealing with this? My child about the same age as your older one wants dad so badly. Dad does well, they have a great time, then child does not see dad again for 2-3 months because dad just wants to make sure he can come back to child at some point. He doesn't want to actually have to deal with him the here and now.
I guess I'm saying that these people suck any way you slice it. Too much, or too little. Never the right amount. Too much wallowing or too much partying. Too much parenting or not enough. Too much thrust on the divorce or not enough. Why does it all have to be so hard?
Hi HaWho - I'm sure it's not your reality but you sound like a woman who is in charge of the bus she's riding on. It must be nice to have some control of things after so long of tipping around on egg-shells.
From the outside your STBX is just going through a litany of "me me me me look at what a great dad me is me me me". Sadly this probably has nothing to do with being a father but is more about spinning the image and situation to his own advantage.
Having been on the side with a moderately useless lawyer against a competent but fortunately unmotivated one it's great to hear how a Good lawyer handles things in the face of adversity.
HaWho,
Oh, my! He is acting out just like my xh did and yes, my xh's lawyer was a piece of work as well. Lawyers can spot a MLCer a mile away and there are some that will clearly take advantage of them because they are so screwed up. Trust me...your xh's lawyer is one of those that knows exactly what is going on and will milk him for all that he can...it's a shame because there are some really good ones out there just like your lawyer.
As for the children, I have two schools of thought: 1) he doesn't realize how old they are. Time passes very slowly for them and he can't accept that they are teens now and he may be reliving that particular age in his mind. Something may have happened to him during his early teens; and 2) it is also a control and appearance issue for him. He wants people to see him as dad of the year and very concerned about his sons. Unfortunately, your sons are old enough to be home behind a locked door for an hour or two.
I would continue to document because you are going to need to do so because he is going to continue to rebel again any and all rules, etc.
HaWho, I know you know this...but watch your back. He's desperate and may become even more so as things ramp up. I know you have a got handle on this situation, but know that we are here if you need anything.
HaWho, Wow what a ride.
I am so impressed with how you cope with all the crazy that ex has and continues to bring into your and your kids lives. To me you are someone who accepts that his MLC has to go forward, like a river. You cannot stand in direct confrontation and stop it, you redirect it, and you barricade at places for protection.
I do feel for your kids. Mine got blasted with waaay too much information. They are older, but is a lot to process for them. And yes they were angry.
They cannot unhear what they have heard, or unknow certain things that may have been better unrevealed. I think the best we can do is to work with what has happened to promote understanding and healing. And IMO you are doing that very well.
I am glad you have a good L. She sounds very competent and much better than your exs L.
You exh still sounds very much the bully and controlling. Stay strong.
Andrew - yes! It does feel good. Unfortunately, I know he cannot handle being told what he can and can't do. So there will be backlash.
Job - yes, lots and lots of acting out. And by involving the kids he plays dirty pool. Very sad. I will be careful. Thank you for the concern.
DnJ - yep, it has been quite a wild ride. Sometimes I remember things and I am just shocked by what I have experienced. Last week I was at s's game. I was looking down reading something as the game had not started. In a huge crowd I heard jingling keys I knew were my ex's. Sure enough, I look up and yes, it's him. And it brought me back to his hardcore replay days and how I'd hear those keys at all hours of the night when he returned. Gosh! Did I really live through all that?
Ownit - I know! Where is his revolving door of girlfriends? He spent so much time telling me every woman wanted him so where are they all?!? Can you imagine if he is still sitting in a stinky room wallowing away?
Gordie - thanks for the nice post. Regarding my mental health, I'm told by close friends and family that I am doing really, really well. My sister who knows me through and through says she sees the glimmers of the me before this all rocked my world.
Sometimes I feel shocked by all that happened. I witnessed so much craziness. Recently I told a friend just a few snippets and she was speechless. I've known her a few years (but we're not so close) and she said she could never have guessed that was happening to me in those years.
My takeaway is that I'm here for a reason. I see now that there were signs that he had issues. I had my own for sure. I am conflict avoidant, have weak boundaries and I am a fixer: where's that hole in the Titanic? I am sure I can plug it!
The rose colored glasses are off and I see that he always had really poor coping skills. Once, early in our m we had a small argument. And he took off for a long while into the wee hours of the morning. I was shocked at the over reaction; it was so disproprotionate to what was warranted. It was ridiculously immature and selfish. It was foreshadowing. He was PA and that certainly worsened over time.
So slowly, slowly, ever so gradually, I learned to tamp out fires before they even started. I knew he would over react so I did x and y to appease. And he was always afraid of aging. He was grossed out by it. He had issues getting along with people for the long haul. He was always mad at someone for some silly reason. Sometimes he cut good people out of his life for years. I watched that and deep down I knew if he could do that to those people he could do it to me as well. He was more tumultuous than I ever wanted to admit. Many, many people (even in his own family) said I was too patient with him.
So from that, I will learn to strengthen my boundaries, stop fearing conflict and stop trying to fix stuff. That's why I am here...
I am glad you are in a good mental state
I worry about you
Given your H s emotional assault
On you and your boys
Amazing what you said about the people in his life
I have recently realized
W has always had deep deep deep b f f s
They share a deep and real connection and share everything
These b f f relationships are intense lasting about 5 to 10 years each
And then they have some falling out and never speak to one another again
I am the only person who has been in her life this long
HaWho, Happy Mother's Day and thank you for posting. You sound like you are doing very, very well in the midst of ongoing MLC crazy. Yes, please do take Job's advice and be aware. Don't live your life around it, but be aware.
I'm so very glad you kept the texts and your lawyer used it in court. I'm sorry your boys are being subjected to this insanity. All you can do is be truthful, be yourself, continue to be the caring, loving mother you've always been.
much love,
B
Hi HaWho,
It's nice to hear from you. I hate that your sitch is progressing this way, but at least it's progressing. No more dorm room. No more up close & personal paranoia, no more taking his dinner off alone after you and your boys eat.
I wonder for the reasons why XH tries to maintain a daily presence with you despite having moved out. Maybe he wants to fluster you during D proceedings, maybe he needs to continue projecting that you are the source of his anger because he isn't as happy as he expected. Whatever it is, it's just more MLC survival gear still at work on his part.
Two things you just spoke of mirrored my sitch. I have 95% of my D settlement wrapped up. There was a tax detail that took one week to clarify. When that info arrived, STBXW asked me to verify it. Then, she started her MLC babbling - she was really trying to find out if the full settlement needed to be dealt with. She probed so I would repeat all bullet points that the L's agreed on only a week before. It was as if she never read the settlement.
What happens to these MLCers? You figure that they would at least pay attention to their own Ls, who are helping them to be free - but crazy people don't know they're crazy, and depression robs anyone of memory and focus.
You have a natural reaction to the "jingling keys", because I have the "bunk bed creak". STBXW sleeps in the kids room, and whenever she rises, there's a creaking sound. Sometimes it's the signal that she's going to start a huge fight with me or with the kids, or to grab her purse and disappear for hours without saying a word. When I hear it, I pray she's just going to the bathroom or to the kitchen. I hate that sound.
I think the realizations you are having now about your past relationship issues are genuine ones. Had this arrived in the middle of the in-house MLC craziness, you'd just be accepting his gaslighting. There are no more fires for someone else to tamp out, he's got to twist and wander in the wind.
If your kids are getting angry about this, they obviously see Dad is not all together - no matter how hard he tries to be fun loving guy. I bet he continues his PA crap through them.
I don't feel right to say congratulations to you for enduring this. Nor can I say good for you, or that-a girl. There's no celebration for continuing to survive a rollercoaster without a seat belt. You sound as centered as someone can be in this situation, more than myself.
Thanks Gordie and Bttrfly for the posts.
Brubeck, yours is a tough one because your live-in monsters quite a bit. I hope she has settled a bit?
Job, you will get a kick out of this as you always loved his communicating via notes.
Last week a handwritten letter was delivered to me via S12. It was left on the counter and addressed in my street name not in my name. Ahh, very mature; another one of his great notes coming my way.
Inside are 2 numbered bullet points. 1 is that my AAA card has been renewed and ex leaves me the card. (Not sure how this happened as I separated myself off the AAA policy months ago. And I categorically told AAA I don't want to combine policies. A phone call is due to them to unravel what happened.
This one is for Mleigh. When my Costco card recently expired I renewed it and put my coworker who loaned me the car on as co-member. I wanted to thank her for the car loan, she does not make a lot of money and yet is one of the most generous people I have ever met.
So bullet point 2 came in the form of a demand, a put down and a threat all in 1. Ex wrote "put me back on the Costco card. X coworker is not on the payroll." (Guess he is implying I AM on his payroll.) Then he threatened "you don't really want me to remove you from all my cards, do you?" (Not sure he is aware that we are very close to separating all that and yes, I do want that! Hence my lawyer.)
We still have joint access to our 2 bank accounts as we settle things financially so looks like he threatening to remover me. Good luck on that as everything we do right now is under a miscrocope.
I waited a day or two thinking how to answer. I showed it to a few girlfriends and we all had a good laugh over it. It was particularly funny as I just discovered x did have a secret bank account. He emptied it one week before telling me he wanted a D. And now here he is insisting I put him on my Costco card. The level of entitlement is stratospheric.
And, it's just bizarre that he files for D, renews my AAA, wants to be on my Costco card and wants to be able to control me through threats of cancellation. Why on earth would he care to be on my Costco card?!?
A month or so ago he also said we should just put all our money in escrow together. Not sure he understands the basics of divorce. I gave him radio silence back on that one.
In the end, I am not going to bother answering. There is just no point. He's not working with a full deck. I think he's still just working with the 2 jokers.
Well, give the "boy" a star for trying to bully you into submission. Definitely contact AAA and find out why you are still on his AAA membership. It could be that they didn't take you off of his membership even though you may have left you on his. A call is in order for this issue. You may want to go to their site today and send them an email inquiring as to why this happened.
As for the Costco account, you can determine who you want on your membership at any time. He can very well go to Costco and apply for a new card. Evidently your "boy" doesn't want to pay the membership fee for it. And, what is up with the "payroll" comment? Didn't know your h is your employer! LOL! He has truly lost the plot.
I guess he doesn't realize what divorce means in the way of separating accounts. Whatever cards that you need to have, that you are currently on w/him, you may need to separate them out now. If he doesn't get his way about the Costco card, he's going to start removing you from those accounts.
BTW, my xh was just like him and he got a very rude awakening when he tried to use two joint cards for purchases after he had been gone for a while. Thanks to a wonderful lady at a Master Card office, she advised me what to do about the joint cards w/purchases on them and when I had them switched to new account w/the balances, my xh couldn't use the old ones because I "suddenly" misplaced the old cards. He had no intention of paying for the things he had charged after he had moved out and yes, he was expecting me to pay his freaking bills while he was out there. I still chuckle over that one. There is always another way around things...you just have to be creative.
HaWho, you are getting more and more creative each and every day and are now able to shake your head and chuckle over some of his crazy thinking. Wait and see...your name will suddenly be removed from the cards and he won't tell you...but you can always do a credit report to see what he's been up to.
Take care of yourself and your sons. Watch your back...he could get very angry and desperate before it's over with.
but you can always do a credit report to see what he's been up to.
Credit reports are always a great idea. I did mine recently both through Equifax and TransUnion. I was able to do the TransUnion one online. Theoretically anyone who had my identifying information could probably have done that too. Just sayin ...
The need for control is so astounding isn't it. I have been seeing quite desperate actions from mine of late. You are how far away from being divorced now and he is writing to you about Costco cards and bragging about paying for your AAA (that you don't even want)? I would say unreal, but I'm living the same thing at the moment.
They do the divorce filing, or threaten it, as a means for control and they don't realize it is the ultimate loss of control. You will soon have a court order to protect you and the boys from his craziness. I don't think that will be the end though, he will push every boundary he can.
I hope he tires of this or works through his fears about it. One of my kids has a birthday coming up, and then of course Father's Day. Ugh. Hope yours passes uneventfully.
I am looking for some advice. So, those of you following along, please read and chime in if you can.
But first, Job - dealing with him is just a constant nuisance. He has definitely lost the plot.
Andrew - I recently just checked my credit on both Experian and TransUnion and all was okay. Fingers crossed I make it to the finish line and just break free of his nuttiness.
But, I agree with Ownit that I think he filed to get a sense of control. Remember he kept texting me to sign papers without obtaining my own lawyer. He thought he was going to bully me every step of the way. The reality is there is a process to this and in the end as Ownit says, he has very, very little control. I hate to mind read but every time my lawyers and I take an offensive stance, he retaliates with some illusion of having control. And it shows in these kinds of silly ways.
For example, he said 1 month ago he would send a settlement proposal. Nothing came. And I am sure he didn't because he was thinking we would go on in this limbo financial state that benefits him. I am not really an offensive strike sort of person so he probably thought he had it made in the shade with pink lemonade.
But he just learned I filed a motion for support and for request that he pay my legal fees. He makes significantly more than me, I was a SAHM mom for a long time, he filed and my legal fees are what they are because a lot of his antics. He has clearly not been honest about finances, it's taken a lawyer to uncover that and I hope he should have to pay for making me have to uncover his lies. If anyone has experience in getting the other party to pay your divorce fees, please feel free to chime in with strategic advice. All advice is appreciated!
Now there is a court deadline, hence he lashes out with controlling the Costco card--ooooh, so tough! Eye roll, sigh and shoulder slump) and makes the PA payroll comment. As my L says, the more he communicates with me, the better. He digs himself a hole to China with each letter/text/email. Duh. Stop communicating. But he just can't help himself. I just cannot believe he wrote me a handwritten letter threatening to take me off my own financial cards. (They are NOT just "his," they are ours. And if this goes to court a judge is going to see this nonsense over a Costco card!
I am kind of worried that as it gets closer to the end here and he learns he has much less control than he thinks, that he'll get even more desperate as Job says.
Anyway, please let me know if anyone knows of cases where legal fees were covered and how those cases were won.
Thanks all!
HaWho, I don't want to chime in with D advice since it is not in my realm of action but I wanted to say that I get the sense you are allowing yourself to be dragged into the darkness a little on this. Isn't the Costco card just a membership card that allows you a discount but isn't a credit card, for example? Why give that any of your head/heart space? He just seems so sad and pathetic to me, like an angry bee who doesn't realize that after you sting, you die. He is enslaved by his anger and depression, but you don't have to take that in. For things that don't matter, can you just ignore it or say, "we can share the discount card," and nothing else if he asks for a pathetic connection like that? To me, when I read your sitch through my faith lens, your H seems caught so deeply in a spiritual battle, he is still so confused and to my mind does not want to D but is being driven to it by the dark MLC self he can't master. I'm not telling you to stay or to go but only saying that I would only battle things that actually connect you financially and the rest just lay at the feet of the universe and don't take it in. Of course it's not going to be fair, the whole thing is disgusting, wrong, a betrayal, etc. And of course you have to make sure your kids are supported financially. But wherever you can set a limit to how much tug of war you are going to play, the more free you can be.
Sorry, I don't have any experience with getting your legal fees paid, but I'd imagine if you had to hire a forensic accountant to find money he was hiding you'd have a pretty good chance of getting some legal fees covered.
As for the Costco card - what does the membership cost, 40 or 50 $ a year? IF you renewed your membership after he moved out, ignore him or simply point out that now that you are separated you each need your own account. If the renewal was paid out of community funds just send him s check for $20 and say here's your half of the renewal fee back. Silly I know but pick your battles.
If you don't have a credit card in your own name I suggest you get one now. If your joint cards are in his name with you added on as a user he could take you off them (although I'm not sure how that would affect your liability for that debt.)
If you have frequent flyer miles or other rewards on those credit cards remember they are an asset too.
You're wise to keep these things as much as possible in the lawyers hands. One thing my ex said to me as we were going through this that I think was wise, something to the effect of "if we both think we lost out it's probably an equitable division ". (Words somebody must have told him because he conveniently forgot them later),
Try to avoid appearing adversarial, just say "yes unfortunately it costs more to live apart" and "Im only asking for what the law dictates" and leave it at that.
HaWho,
So much of what you write is what I am living, and even foreshadowing. Just today, after what I assume was his first day back at work on a 12 hour shift, he apparently ran right home and felt the need to change the email on a TV streaming account we have had for years. It is in his name and was his email. I got a notice that he changed the email to mine. I then checked my bank account because I was pretty sure this was paying from a card I never use. Lo and behold, he changed the fee from a credit card I have where he was an authorized user to our joint card which I pay. I think he thought he was paying for it. That $13 a month that he mistakenly thought he was paying must have been a huge deal for him. Why he didn't just boot me and the kids from the account is beyond me. The last time he messed with an account like this in December I called him. I think he may have thought I would rage or contact him. I just could care less.
On to your fee issue. Attorney fees are going to be by statute, as interpreted by case law, in accordance with local practice and judicial preferences. Lot of words to say it is up to the judge in your case and no one can really tell you. I practice in a field where we are supposed to have fees to the prevailing party. They are seldom granted. We don't have a loser pays system like our friends across the channel and some judges are loathe to give them.
Speak to your lawyer and follow his advice, but it is often a good idea to ask for the fees, because sometimes you have to ask for them 3 or 4 more times (for new violations) before you get them. Trust me, your H is going to be pushing the limits at every turn and the fee issue is going to keep coming up. In general, when someone compounds litigation through bad faith actions, that is when attorney fees start coming into play. In my very progressive state, my lawyer tells me I have to pay my own fees.
Yes, he wants to control you. Things like taking the actions you took (entirely necessary) are going to cause him to seek retribution. But the good news is that it sounds like you have a great lawyer and the judge is getting a good read on what is going on in your case. I'm sure the boys will be the targets since you are so strong and he has a hard time phasing you. Just make sure to keep them in counseling and watch for what he is doing and document and report it to your lawyer.
Like I said, by filing in court he took away his power. I am still waiting 1.5 years later for the elusive separation contract draft. He keeps telling me it is unfair and he won't be enslaved, but when I ask what he thinks is fair he can't or won't tell me. We are back to threats about selling the house (which the court will not order in our case). It is exhausting, but I keep reminding myself it is just threats. I think I am not responding anymore, at all, regardless of what he does, because that is what he is really after. Were he ever going to file, he wouldn't mess with my money, or my streaming accounts, he'd just file. Sometime I'll share with you my own Costco card story, but I've already overshared here.
HaWho - Just a different perspective here.
Looking at the end game - casting him free to dance with the fairies while protecting you and the boys as much as possible is probably your goal.
It's easy to get caught up in the minutia but in an adversarial legal environment that can add time and money. A phrase I used during negotiations with my ex was that I didn't want to waste time "searching for nickels in the couch cushions". We ended up agreeing to broad strokes like for example that the value of the property she took was equivalent to what was left behind.
In researching elsewhere one message I heard fairly clearly was that when negotiating with a disordered / selfish person that having them feel that they are "winning" and that they are "getting away with it" can be effective. It does mean that you have to walk away from the table knowing that you've left things behind that perhaps you could have fought harder for.
My suggestion is to decide what is truly important to you based on easily agreed facts. Let him dash off with his hidden bank accounts and the family silver if that's what it takes to get things done smoothly.
I've read too many occasions of where things get dragged out and adversarial and the only people who end out ahead are the lawyers.
In my case I short-circuited a lot of the disclosure - fully disclosing on my side and not really paying much attention to her's (she didn't have hidden accounts of any amount I'm sure). We agreed to a value on the house based on a third party opinion of value. The final deal was that she would get 3/4 of the equity from the house and a modest spousal support payment for several years. I got to keep my pensions and what material goods were remaining after her several shopping trips. All other items were deemed to have been dealt with and were not even mentioned in the agreement other than that the agreement was comprehensive and covered all possible items.
The paintings she took I've mostly replaced with some nicer originals painted by amateurs that I found at various local art events. We had far far too much furniture and so I don't really miss most of it. A real couch would be nice perhaps. Her jewelry doesn't match many of my outfits. The piles of "stuff" that had been accumulating dust around the house that she took along with the unused exercise equipment I don't miss.
Just my 2 cents.
Doll, in my state it's up to the judge, but you have to ask for legal fees to be paid for it to be considered.
Decide what you want, and let him think he's winning on the other points.
In my case, any joint cards meant I was responsible for 1/2 that debt and also the balance adversely affected my credit rating!!!! I never charged anything, but exh maxed out the joint card. Yes, I had to pay and yes my credit took the hit.
My Costco card is a credit card, but I know you can also have a straight membership card. If you're so inclined, I might open a second membership and give him the card just to make him think he's getting something his way. Lose the battle, HaWho, win the war!!!!
xoxoxoxo
specifically lose the battles you CHOOSE to lose.
Hi ha who
I hear your struggles annoyances and stress of the ongoing situationbiy mostly I see a strong you in a relatively good positionheadinh towards a better way of life. I say relative because it isn't a good situationand isn't what you wanted.
Chin up, keep going. Better times are ahead
Best wishes
Hello HaWho
In my sitch the financial outcome was bizarre. Two things of note - First she wanted a lump sum payment not alimony. Her L added that I must pay the income tax on her lump sum so she gets the full amount. Whatever, here in Canada alimony is taxed and lump sum payment is not - so I owned nothing extra.
Second I had to pay her L fees. This was written into the agreement, which I agreed to. It seemed like W and her L saw this as some big win. Whatever.
I found out, almost anything can be written in to your separation agreement, and if both parties sign then that is it. But forcing him to have to pay L fees in court, well like everything else in court who knows what will happen - that is why you are in court to have a judge figure it out.
So, if you are asking him to pay and he does great. If he is refusing maybe removing the L fees will be like a bargain chip and allow you a win in other areas.
Remain strong HaWho.
Just as an aside HaWho - DNJ's comment reminded me that I believe that your tax code is changing at the end of 2018 where spousal support shifts from being a tax deduction to being taxable.
That could perhaps be used as motivation for the other side to get the deal done sooner rather than later.
With him being the higher earner, the tax implications could be significant not to mention the annoyance to him of "why do I have to pay tax on money I don't get to keep".
Thanks Gerda, KML, Ownit, Andrew, Bttrfly, Roist and DNJ for all the kind words and pearls of wisdom.
Gordie - as to how I am, I'm okay. I had a rough beginning to the week. I felt like there was a cinder block on my chest; there was so much pain over all that has happened. It went on for several days and then passed. And when it did, I recognized I felt stronger. I know it's all part of the healing.
There are always new pangs. Just yesterday, I was emailing with a client and seeing my last name he asked if I was of a certain descent. I paused because it's my husband's last name. I did contemplate having a little bit of fun by telling the client "yes, he's of x descent, but he's also just plain crazy! He was convinced I was trying to poison him so we're divorcing now." Oh, the ways I could really make the work day more interesting.
Speaking of ex, this week I received another hand written note from him. This one was mailed to me. Maybe he mailed it to ensure I received it because the last Costco one was hand delivered by s and I never even acknowledged it. I felt a real dread when I saw it with his hand writing on it. Inside was proof that he's paid his life insurance policy for the next 6 months and a handwritten note explaining so. At first I thought it was some sort of threat. Like he was sending it to me to tell me he was cancelling it after 6 months. Then, I worried maybe he was in a really dark place and he paid it in advance because of this.
I had to text him about something to do with the kids. I kept it very business like and simple but he just went right into anger. He is just SO angry. He accused me of doctoring the text conversations I showed in court several weeks ago. Ignore. He called me a liar. Ignore. He blamed me (again) for things that happened in my depression that I have apologized for numerous times (no, not affairs, really things that didn't even impact him). Ignore. There were several paranoid statements. Ignore.
The best part, is all I did was ask a simple question and there he was back to blowing up my phone. Ignore.
I am busy with helping my kids grow up, with work and with friendships. I am taking better care of myself again. I have faith that better days are ahead of me and that there is a plan for me (which hopefully does not involve MLC).
It takes a very, very long time for that anger to disappear. He's angry at the world and himself. He lashes out at you because you are "safe".
I am so sorry he's still in La La Land. Continue as you have been, i.e., focusing on you and your sons.
My goodnesss he is angry. As Job said, you being safe are a target. I found that people who are hurting will lash out in anger. Their inner pain is driving the anger.
You are doing such a good job on ignoring his bullying texts.
Interesting his hand written note about renewing his life insurance. Are you still the beneficiary? Or is it the kids? Do you even know? You of course do not have to answer.
This just got me thinking of when W dropped the bomb everything was in her name. All policies, accounts, and property would be paid to her if something had happened to me. That was one of the very first things I had to change, the beneficiary from W to kids. I also let her know about the change.
So I am worth $0 to her now. I still have a policy on her, which does seem a bit weird.
I am glad things are looking up. Better days are definitely ahead for you.
Sometimes I think these business-like things they bring up are the only safe way they have of remembering the M and of trying to somehow reach a hand up out of the pit to wave to us. It's so sad. With my H, I think those things are his way of trying to still feel like a man when he feels like such a failure.
I am so glad you are seeing your life in such a positive way. You are right that a new and wonderful chapter is beginning for you. You have learned so much and you gave it your all, and you gained a lot of wisdom. I hope you will discover so many things that bring you your own special joy.
Thanks Job, DNJ and Gerda.
Well, there's just so much I feel has happened these past few months. I find I am laughing more and eating life with a much bigger spoon. I am healing.
I have little contact with my ex and what little I do have is too much. He still occasionally rage emails me. We use a scheduling app that is meant to be just that: an app for scheduling when the kids go where, etc. Last week he sent me a nasty email complete with a nasty tone. I simply said that I would not address his issues as they were not appropriate for a scheduling app and also, the whole point of the app is to maintain a calm tone and stick to scheduling.
I have to say I am so relieved to have limited contact with him. When you live it you get so used to it. When you distance from it you regain a sense of seeing how crazy it all is. He is such an unattractive pit bull of a guy these days.
Here's a funny one. He sent me a text where he suggested an alteration the schedule. He recommended that I take the kids every weekend. Guess replay has a vise grip on him. He pitched it in the most ridiculous way. He said this would give me "my freedom." Talk about projection. I told him I'd stick with the current schedule.
Then he sent me another email proposing (again) a July schedule where he (again) had every weekend free of the kids.
Time and patience are the two greatest warriors. I feel myself healing piece by piece.
You are doing well. Now that you've had some distance put between you, you can see just how irrational he truly is. He's going to do everything in his power to mess w/your mind and try to have you second guessing yourself.
I like the fact that you have a scheduling app and really, that's the only way to set up the schedules of your sons. The less you have to interact w/him, the better.
Time, space and patience are the keys to healing...oh...one more thing...a sense of humor.
Just write back and say "Sorry, I need two weekends a month free for dating" lolol
HaWho sorry about the rage emails
But so happy you are distancing and healing
Their selfishness blinds them or maybe they just do not care how selfish they are
How are the boys handling all of this
Hope you are enjoying the summer
HaWho
Nice to read you are doing well .. the healing buisness takes longer than I think we all expect it should but it too has its own stubborn schedule
I read somewhere one never really realizes just how toxic a relationship is until they are free from it .. I know for me this is the case.
Nice to read the update !!
I'm about to say something completely opposed to standing:
I'm hella glad you're free of this bozo. I'm thrilled your spoon is bigger! I'm delighted you're setting healthy limits and no longer living under the tyranny of his MLC/mental illness.
xoxoxoxo
Thanks Job, KML, Gordie, Cali and Bttrfly. Ownit - if you are reading, I've missed you!
Bttrfly, actually, each day, I thank my lucky stars that he moved out. I had absolutely no idea how outrageous my situation had become until he left. It is as Cali writes: it takes distance to really see how toxic it had become.
I have little contact with him but from glimpses, he is still way out there. The control issues are crazy, so much so that I am not sure we can settle our divorce without litigation. When he left he took all documents including our will and the kids' passports. Of course there is no legal basis for him to have these in his possession and I've tried to explain that to him. I have tried to explain that if we are to settle we both need to understand there are laws to which we must adhere. I have every right to have a copy of my will. (It was written so long ago, I can't even remember which law firm wrote it.) And I should keep one kid's passport while he keeps the other (unless one of us is travelling internationally with the kids.) If we are to settle, I am planning to write that our previous will is null and void effective immediately in case he never gives it to me.
His answer: he's always handled these things so he'll continue to do so. He actually says this and then also says as he's always done it, he sees no reason to change things.
These are the the kinds of things that make this MLC and not an ordinary divorce. He still wants to control things. He even sent me an email telling me how I should be budgeting and handling my finances. His tone was rude, condescending and filled with anger. The best part is that all his math was wrong! (At one point he even suggested that he'll continue to handle all the finances?!?) It does not seem that he has a basic understanding of divorce.
It was made all the more bizarre that he just writes everything on this scheduling app to which the court has access. He really is digging himself a deep grave should we need to go to court to settle. Each email shows how out there he really is.
Me: I have every legal right to my own will. Please give me a copy of my will.
Him: No, I've always handled this so I will continue.
Me: We are divorcing, so things will not be run that way anymore. You have no legal right to hold my documents in your possession. What if I did this to you though the law is on your side?
Divorcing him is a nightmare. I have to fight for every little foothold. That's the bad. I know someday, somehow these issues will be resolved.
The good: Most of the time, I do feel like I cheated death. I am relieved he is gone. I wish him no harm, but he was an albatross.
I have made good friends at work, have a strong social network and am just healing day by day. My sense of humor is back in full swing. I joined a new tennis group and am really enjoying that. I feel strong, healthy and more whole than I have in years. I no longer have to plan fun things for the week; invites now come my way.
I cannot thank you all enough for being there for me in what were some truly crazy years.
So great to hear an update from you
Yes this sounds terrible
Handling your finances now and after you d
Wow that is nuts
And glad you have that documented
So glad you are feeling better about life
And have the resilience to see that you will get to the other side some way some how
Hugs to Hawho
HaWho,
Do you have a Registrar of Wills at the Court House? You may go there and see if your will is on file. If not, instead of having heated discussions with the nut, make an appointment and have a new will drawn up. By doing so, it will make the one he is holding hostage null and void. It's far less stressful and you do not tell him you've done this. Let him think he's got everything he needs to stick it to you.
As for the passports, when are they due to be renewed? You can always have new ones done. You can always say that they've been misplaced and you need to have them reissued to you.
The more you point out what he isn't doing, the more determined he will be to dig his heels in and do the exact opposite of what needs to be done. There is always another way to get what you need...it may take a little bit of $$$ and time, but the items he's holding hostage can be replaced w/o his knowledge.
They do not understand that when a divorce takes place, everything changes. He's still fighting to control things and unfortunately, the areas he's trying to control are no longer going to be areas he can. He's angry at himself and the world and no matter how hard he tries, he won't be able to control you once the divorce is final.
Check on the things that I have suggested to you. I think you will find it is far easier to possibly doing those suggestions that arguing w/an irrational nut.
HaWho wonderful to hear from you.
Wow, nothing from that man is going the easy route. I think for the MLCer, after the euphoric stage is over, they face a choice of better or bitter, to look inward or lash out. Your H most definitely picked the later.
Did you ever get the custody schedule figured out? If I remember H had the most cockamamie ideas about that. Your boys would be changing houses almost every day. Does the court viewable scheduling app have something to do with this part?
Are your boys enjoying summer vacation? I hope they are doing well, and of course you too.
On that note, it sounds like you doing great. Sense of humour back, invites coming your way, strong and healthy. Way to go HaWho.
HaWho - it sounds like you are navigating the troubled waters reasonably well.
When I had my will done up it came as a package where my lawyer also did the powers of attorney for health and financial issues. I set it as my two brothers jointly and in consultation with the kids. In some ways this is perhaps a more important document IMO.
Yes, you need a new will now anyway, correct? Go ahead and get one done.
Also - check and see, if you're in the US, I'm not sure but there may be some way to flag their passports that you have to consent to them leaving the country.
Now this is probably all just control issues and dragging his feet but I also worry a teeny bit about someone so unbalanced and his interest in your will. So I would have a new one drawn up ASAP that specifically disinherits him and sets someone else as executor of your estate. Then you can inform him you have a new will and that way he has less incentive to do anything dastardly.
(Funny side story - when I divorced I was entitled to keep a life insurance policy on my ex- at my cost - to cover the alimony in case he died. We already had a life insurance policy on him for $500k but he insisted that I reduce it to $250k ( remember I was paying the premiums) so that I couldn't "profit" from his death! Since I never threatened him or even gave him a hard time during the divorce I thought this projection was a manifestation of his guilt - as in, if he had been in my shoes he might have wanted to take out a contract on someone who had treated him as poorly as he had treated me lol!)
Ha,
It’s nice to hear an update from you. I’m sorry you are going through this mess. Thank goodness you realize that his controlling nature is what it is.... and wow... is he controlling. I think when their lives get so out of whack they cling tighter to these types of things.
Boggles my mind.... don’t these mlc’ers know how divorce works?!? Especially the ones who file themselves.
Overall, I hope you and the kids are doing well and they are having a nice summer. I’m so pleased to hear that you are feeling stronger, and healthier. It’s amazing the toll it takes living with these characters. I bet it feels so good to be back to yourself again. Enjoy this life that you’ve built for yourself.
HaWho my love you are weathering the storm with grace and resilience. I'm so very proud of you!!!! I will tell you a secret - I wanted to tell you to take the kids and get as far away from your husband as possible many times but of course, that's not something one can say. I just had this feeling that he was so far gone that he wasn't going to come back - and if he did? Who needs Christmas trees in July??
HaWho,
Been thinking about you, especially since our sitches were similar - including the time around when we got away from our MLC spouses.
Glad to see you posting less here, and out living life instead.
The will and passport things sound like control issues indeed. I love job's idea of just replacing both without his knowledge and invalidating them altogether. He just gets informed after the fact, with a brief text!
Reminder - MLCers take the path of least resistance, even during a fight they want to have.
Enjoy the summer!
Hello HaWho,
A visit here from someone who knows what you are going through. I love that you constantly remind us about the control. With mine, I see control around money, control around communication and control over the "process." I had thought that by allowing the MLCer to "own" the process, that "it" might pass with less pain, less strife, and less difficulty. Indeed, that has not been the case for me. Once again there is, I believe, too much fear of letting go. I love to see you to handle your situation with grace and aplomb.
Hi hawho,
I do imagine your life has many benefits to not being constantly in his toxic presence. There will be struggles and battles ahead but I believe the worst is behind you, especially as I am sure that you can handle whatever comes at you. I know you can.
Best wishes
Hi Hawho,
Catching up and it was great to read you are doing well. I’m glad you’re finding the peace that comes when the crazy leaves! Sorry you’re still dealing w/him but they really do make their own case against themselves:)
Take care!
Wow - thanks everyone for the amazing outpouring of advice and support. Gordie, Job, DNJ, Andrew, KML, Pax, Bttrfly, Brubeck, Oneart, Roist and KYH: thank you, thank you and thank you.
Working on straightening out my kids' passports situation and drafting a new will.
Just wanted to drop a line to remind all that there is a wonderful life on the other side of this! I cannot believe how much my life has improved in the last 6 months. Whoa.
I am up for another promotion at work and was given nice praise from my boss. This is important for those of you long time stay at home moms who get hit by this MLC bus. Reinvention is at your fingertips! You are already so strong from surviving this!
I have lots of friends. The more people I tell my story to, the more support and encouragement I receive. People at work now know about my D and many coworkers now invite me to many social gatherings. (I give them the PG version of my story. I have not told them that my ex thought I was trying to shoot and poison him. Nor have I mentioned that he wanted to go out all hours of the night and sleep around but then sleep here! CRAZY days!!!)
In MLC news: I sent my ex a settlement proposal. He sent me a rage text and never countered anything. By the system he owes me more per month so I asked for this arrears. He was outraged. He said he'll go to the judge and say I have committed perjury?!? In his response to the court he actually stated what he's willing to pay me in support! LOVE how he *thinks* he can decide this number that he picked from up his a$$ and to the left. Umm, there is a system for calculating this. He continues to think he is steering this ship. So, to court we'll go to settle how much support he owes me. (Hope we get the same judge who slapped his wrist last time.)
A few weeks ago he texted me to inform me there was a severe thunderstorm warning for the next few hours and asked me to keep the kids safe. I wanted to write back: "ok, thanks for the great advice. We're going to go to the ocean and pole vault in (with a metal pole). I am sure somehow, someway it makes sense to him. Love how he moves 2 miles away "to be free" and continues to attempt to micromanage. Sigh . . .
A few days ago, I received a text from one of the dads on my son's sports team. He said he saw me from a distance at tryouts the other night and just wanted to say hello. Then he wished me a good day. I saw it and put the phone down like I had just read something I wasn't supposed to see. I wasn't sure what to make of it. Then read it again and wondered if he was hitting on me?!?
I cannot lie, after years and years of being told that I was old, and had "let myself become middle aged", it was nice to receive the reach out.
Just wanted to clarify that the dad who reached out is not married. His wife passed away a few years ago. I don't think I need to tell you all that a reach out from a married man is NOT welcome. LOL!!!
IMHO - Yep, he’s hitting on you. For the most part we men are pretty shy when it comes to reaching out and telling her we like her.
How did you answer his text? If I might ask.
What a great update, it is indeed wonderful to see how much you’re life is improving.
Btw, I loved the post, your inspirational boost to Gerda. That is a great view of life.
Your ex - smh. He is very delusional. Maybe you will get the same judge, then he can blame that for his outcome. He is going to blame something.
Glad you are doing so well, you will get all this settled soon.
Wonderful update.......I’m rusty on the hitting thing too, but I agree with DnJ he’s hitting on you!
HaWho,
I've walked the path w/you from the very beginning and knew that once you figured out how to deal w/him, you would detach enough to be able to find some humor in your situation. Your h is just out there and doesn't understand that he can't control anything but himself. Going to court is only going to make him look stupid once again and make his lawyer richer by the hour.
You've come such a long way and I'm so proud of you. Yes, once you've reached the other side, the sky tends to clear and you can see all that you need to see.
Keep up the good work!
Hawho, so glad to see you so happy and getting attention from the (right) boys!
Ha who
You are a strong woman and you kept/increased your sense of humour even through tough times. Already you shine, buy I imagine that is only the start. Your situation has added stress layers interlaced with protective carapace covered with a dull dust of darkness due to the negativity/toxicness endured.
You are leaving all that behind you shedding the unwanted burdens. You are about to THRIVE. Enjoy.
Yes that attention must have been nice to receive.
Best wishes
HaWho
Great update
Yes he is interested in getting to know you better
You are a catch and always have been
Wishing you the best on your visit to court
I wouldn't waste my time trying to negotiate a settlement with him. As you know, I have waited eons for a separation contract that is never going to come. I accept that. I didn't ever update with this, but he did eventually file. I think this was being forced by the OW and my goading him simultaneously created the perfect storm where that was the path of least resistance. I thought surely we will move along now at a good clip and get this done. But I forgot who I was dealing with.
I now believe it doesn't matter who files. They will do what they are going to do. Yours, like mine, doesn't want an end to the drama. If he did he wouldn't behave this way. Mine never sent any counter-proposal on the separation contract, filed the barest petition you've ever seen in your life (I still have no idea what his position is on anything), and even played games over service of process that backfired in the worst possible way. We are now many months in and not one single thing has happened (hasn't seen one of the children in over a year and has barely seen the other). We still don't even have a case schedule (takes a year to get a trial date where I am so we are a year out from whenever he finally pays the $20 fee that is holding us up). He also hired a complete bozo for an attorney that will ensure that nothing ever happens. (Oh yeah, and I'm still getting his dating profiles in my email from my fake profile and even though I think he knows its my profile, he keeps messaging it, but I just ignore it).
Were I you, I would strategize the quickest and most expedient line from where you are to conclusion that does not require any participation from him. If you haven't had a forensic accounting and served subpoenas on the financial institutions themselves, you really should do that. If you rely on what he turns over, you will never get the truth. You can burn a lot of cash in settlement negotiations and writing drafts that never get signed. Do some reading on trying to negotiate with a narcissist or other cluster B and you will see that it is really a pointless endeavor.
I'm sorry that you are going through this. I always thought ours were a lot alike. Frankly I've felt loads better since he filed (the court here automatically enters a restraining order so he can't mess with the money anymore). Although this is still a flavor of limbo, at least it is one that I am very familiar with.
Thanks DNJ, Westo, Job, Gerda Roist and Gordie. Much appreciated.
Last week I emailed ex about something to do with kids. I received a quintessential non sequitur MLC response back. He told me he's been trying to save me from myself since January (which is when he moved out and filed), that he has no idea what I am doing (he's still VERY upset that I have my own lawyer), that I ruined the friendship between us and then he told me I'll have a lot of explaining to do to the kids someday. He is very upset over legal fees. And yes, it's pricey--mostly because he's unreasonable. But he filed and then refused to be reasonable/follow basic processes.
I didn't answer.
I saw him at s 13's orientation and felt so comfortable being in the same orbit; more so that I have in years. All that he wrote to me in that crazy letter is fading at long last. I felt an old confidence returning. One of the things he'd told me is that I had let myself become middle aged and I was too intelligent?!?! I walked by him and really understood that it's him, his issues, his hang ups, his misery. It felt good to be so distant from it all.
I am still playing tennis and I just picked up pickle ball; quite fun! I am having a love affair with life.
It is truly liberating to accept you are not the problem.
Enjoy that love affair. Best wishes.
Awesome stuff! It is so awesome to read about love affairs with life...
HaWho
What an awesome update
I have played zero games of tennis this summer
You are reminding me I better get out there and yes have a love affair with life
That put a real smile on my face
Fantastic. Comfortable and confident.
I like the love affair with life. Best part!
You got this.
ive heard about pickle ball - i will try it when i'm settled post move --- i'm so delighted with your update!!! well done gf!!! xoxoxo
So nice to hear the update!
I hear pickle ball is really fun! Awesome!!
Sorry to hear about your charming ex dragging out your divorce... but I’m so glad you can be in his orbit and not get sucked into his negative vortex! Yep... all him.
Just checking in HaWho - hope all is going well for you and the boys.
Best wishes Hawho.
Hope things are going well for you. Would love to hear how things are with you since your last post
Hi HaWho - hope you and the boys are well. I echo Roist and Andrew xoxoxo
Greetings from the other side of this MLC storm!
Hello and hope all is well!
I have not been here since August 2018 but I have been stepping on the gas pedal of my life. Gosh, where to begin. It is most accurate to say that I double downed (hard) on myself.
Key updates on me: I put my my head down and worked super hard at work. In the last year I have been promoted twice while so much of my life crumbled around me.
I play a lot of pickle ball - great social outlet, great stress reducer and I love it! I see friends regularly.
My kids are finally getting a little better. S15 was very angry over it all. He lashed out at me and held things together in front of his dad. I know that means I am the “safe” one. S13 grew quiet and withdrew. He is now starting to see friends, finally! They both are getting their senses of humor back. They have always maintained their grades and kindness towards others (though they often lashed out at me).
I have spent many, many hard hours, days and months fighting my ex in our divorce. It has been exhausting and time consuming. There is a whole book to write on this. I don’t even know which stories to tell you there are so many ridiculous ones. I guess the most classic MLC one is that my ex suggested that I have the kids every weekend
so that I can have “my freedom on the weekdays!” Hah! Talk about projection. If only I had a button to drop him through the floor. He fought pretty hard and kept asking for this. I assume it is hard to date young women when you cannot run off together every weekend?!? He even put s13 up to telling me that both kids felt it was best they were with me every weekend! When I asked why neither kid could answer. It’s sad he tried to use them in that way. I told them that when you have kids and want to divorce both parents should see the weekend and weekday aspects of their kids’ lives, in a ideal world.
One other funny story is he tried to determine support based on what he felt like paying and he went to the judge and said this! He said this is what made sense even though by his own numbers plugged into the state of California’s system he owed me way more per month! He told the judge he should pay less as now as his life is harder without a wife to help him. Job - if you are reading this I think one will make you laugh out loud. My lawyer said that was a case for me to receive the support I deserved: that I do d my job as primary care giver. And I won the maximum support. It was more than even my lawyer thought I would get.
When my ex suggested he get to choose the amount of support I receive, I wanted to joke, hey, why isn’t support determined by spinning Wheel of Fortune style! Makes about the same amount of sense.
We don’t really speak and he ignores me when we are at kids’ events. When he does text me, the messages often have a lot of anger. He is still mad I got my own lawyer and “wasted all our money.” In our marital separation agreement he tried to write in that all my support would end automatically if I cohabitated with anyone on a romantic basis. Of course that is not legal but that is his pattern: trying to set all his own rules. My lawyer said she had never seen anything like it- the language was so restrictive.
There are bizarre texts too. I play pickle ball on the nights I don’t have my kids and my ex tried to get me to drop something off one of those nights and I told him no I could not. He kept pushing and I simply said I am not available to do this tonight. And then he started texting me snide comments about me being out with my “benefactor.” ??? And he actually used that word. It has become a running joke with friends now. If I can’t meet them they will ask if I am out with my benefactor and we all laugh hysterically.
As for where I am headspace wise, I still sometimes can’t believe all that happened to my life. Sometimes I wonder if he did have a MLC or if I just made excuses for his bad behavior. But then recently the kids told me my ex said we were never in love and that made me so mad. I brought down 20 photo albums and told them to flip through. We were happy. We were in love. And when I really stop and think about the classic MLC signs, I know in my heart my guy was a textbook case.
He projected a lot onto me and I see all that now.
I think about you all often. I thank all of you for all your wonderful support.
Oh, I am thankful to be on the other side of this. Life does get better. It was way harder to live with him, just as Job often told me. I am happy. I do feel like I cheated death as it was hard living with all that craziness.
I do plan on checking in on old friends here. If there are newbies with similar situations I can help here. I know there are not many men who stay living in during their MLCs.
He told the judge he should pay less as now as his life is harder without a wife to help him
Hilarious!
Good job resisting his nuttiness and getting what you deserve for your kids. Glad you've found a good social outlet and that work is going well. I'm sorry your ex is messing with the kids' heads but trust me, as time goes on they will come to realize that you are their rock and appreciate that. Plus you are modeling for them how to move forward and be happy.
My middle child was especially close to their dad and I think somehow blamed me for not keeping their dad "happy enough" to stay in the marriage. Now ten years later, after realizing I always had his back and his father often didn't, he admires me and thanks me for being such a great mom.
You're doing great - and I hope your "benefactor " materializes soon lol!
HaWho,
I am so glad you returned for a visit and w/an update. I am thrilled that you are getting what you deserve for your sons. He is definitely out to lunch and it's going to take years to grow up (that is if he ever does). He may be one of those, i.e., like my xh, who doesn't grow up and remains an angry and resentful old man.
I am glad that your sons are doing much better. It's been a difficult journey for them to see their father acting out like he has and continues to do so. Some of the things he comes up with makes me just shake my head. Like my xh, he doesn't think you are smart enough to see what he's trying to do or get at.
Keep up the good work and congratulations on the promotions. Sending warm and positive thoughts your way. BTW, if you happen to get a chance, check out Gerda's threads. Right now, she's away for the Lent, but she'll return after Easter. She's got a live in MLC husband and two children. You might be able to provide some support to her.
Take care.
Hi stranger!!
I am glad you dropped by to update us, but mostly I am happy to read you are doing well. I thought that you would be fine after the split and I am glad that is so. You deserve a good life free from the hassles of recent years. Enjoy.
I get the sense that the dust is still settling for you and you are not fully where you want/need to be. that is okay, you are well on your way.
I am also happy that the settlement worked out as it should. That will help you, although may come with the price of prolonging the anger. But you know that anger is his to own and shouldn't affect you.
I wish you and your boys well.
Hey Hawho ... Just kinda caught up with you, and sorry to hear your hermit crab decided to but out of the basement and actually test the sands but I also think he needed to do this or you would have had him in that basement for eternity. Hopefully he goes through the tunnels now as it always felt like to me he was stuck hard ... the anger he is displaying much like a rebellious teen and the thought of you with someone else will drive him batty
Sometimes I wonder if he did have a MLC or if I just made excuses for his bad behavior.
I could have easily written this, looking back at my marriage there were several times I felt the need to make excuses for her, and these were not even the MLC excuses.... something I will never do again. For me she has been contacting often, calling more in the past month than she did all of last year combined and thankfully it has not had any impact on me whatsoever looking back a few years I would be analyzing nd in a tail spin about it plotting when she was going to wake up and come out of that tunnel
All we can do at this point is hope they can get to a place where they are there for the kids in some capacity, this for me was the hope this past year and she has been doing alot better.
Hope you all the best .. stay in touch and good luck in that dating pool!
I’m so glad you returned for an update, HaWho.
I’m glad you got recognized for your hard work at your job and earned those promotions. You definitely should be rewarded for a job well done.
As for your ex, I get it. I can only offer my empathy. No words. He still is trying to control you and the situation. How exhausting it must be.
I hope the teens are doing well. I’m sure it’s a confusing time for them as well. As they get older and decide what kind of men they want to be,. they might be reflecting on the chaos they’ve endured
Wishing the best to you. I hope you are out there and enjoying life.
hello dear one! so very nice to "see" you!!!!!!
lots has happened and you've weathered it all so beautifully! I'm so very proud of you Ha -- you've put up with so much crazy, you've sure earned the peace of mind that oozes from your recent post. Well done my dear! Stay in touch xoxoxoxo
Like everyone else said, glad to hear you are doing so well. And thanks for everything you contributed to all of us here. Best wishes.
How's the Pickle Ball Queen doing?
KML - thanks for the reach out. Yes, I am playing a lot of pickleball and really enjoying it!
As for the rest of my life, I am okay. Now that I am through it all, I have lots of “wait, did that really happen?!?!” moments. There were some real doozies in my MLC story.
Actually, recently I kind of lashed out at my ex for that letter he wrote to me about the ways I could fix the marriage. For those of you who remember, mine was a writer and one of the things he wrote was a three page letter detailing ways I could fix the marriage. It really hit me how sick the letter was. How sick you have to be to write something like that and think it’s okay to treat someone that way. He had all sorts of physical improvements for me. But he also wanted me to be less intelligent (and he writes that!!!) and just be sexy on his arm (and he writes that, too).
It was just pathetic after nearly 20 years of marriage and pathetic that at age 50 he lacked any sort of depth. (And for those of you reading this and thinking: hmm, well maybe she gained 700 pounds and he wants back the woman he married.). I am the same size I was pre children and many people think I am in my mid thirties and I am very fit. I raise this only because it’s his very distorted view projected onto me.
Anyway, it was never something I truly addressed with him. And suddenly the anger overwhelmed me that after all I had done I would be treated with such disrespect. So I sent a text to him. I told him it was so funny what he wrote in that letter. And what a joke it all was and how truly shallow it was. He asked me to stop texting him about it. And I wrote that he shouldn’t run from it as he took so much time to write it. He should own it and not hide from it.
It felt good to address it because it was all so deeply undignified and I shouldered it all. He became a real joke of a guy. And when I really thought about what angered me, it was the duplicity. He wants to be perceived as one thing when in reality he is the opposite. And I wanted him to know I knew that about him.
I did it for me and it helped me move forward. I deserved better not because I am so great but because no woman deserves that.
How’s that for an update KML?
he also wanted me to be less intelligent
LOL! And how exactly were you supposed to accomplish that? (I know, the same way smart women have been doing it for generations - by playing dumb).
My ex and I were pretty evenly matched intellectually but he always had a bit of a chip on his shoulder because I was better at some things (like standardized exams) than he was. It was ridiculous, because he was also better at other things that I wasn't, like surgery and people skills. So when he married again he married a much younger woman who plays the "little girl". She's not dumb but I do wonder if he ever misses the intellectual conversations that we used to have? Or if his fragile ego is just enjoying being propped up by someone who looks up to him as "older and wiser"?
I refuse to hide my light under a bushel and frankly, I don't think any of the men I have dated since my divorce have been bothered by my intellect. (Which is refreshing, as it was definitely a problem when I was younger). I don't think I'm better than anyone else - there are so many ways to be smart and not all of them show up in exams - and I refuse to be with a man so fragile and uncomfortable in his own skin that he needs me to play dumb to assuage his ego.
I refuse to hide my light under a bushel and frankly, I don't think any of the men I have dated since my divorce have been bothered by my intellect. (Which is refreshing, as it was definitely a problem when I was younger). I don't think I'm better than anyone else - there are so many ways to be smart and not all of them show up in exams - and I refuse to be with a man so fragile and uncomfortable in his own skin that he needs me to play dumb to assuage his ego.
Amen, Sister!!!
Hi all - long time no post, but think of you and this place often.
Life is good and improves all the time! I am busy and happy. Life is easier - so very much so!
In hindsight I feel like I was carrying an anvil around!
I did just write a post but think I did not submit and lost it. So here is a shorter version.
Ex continues to ignore me at kids’ events. But, recently he reached out and offered to dogsit on a weekend I am going to a family wedding with my boys! Sadly, this is newsworthy in my sitch as he has been seething anger for years and this is the first glimpse of kindness I have seen from him in years! He told me had had no plans and could take the dog. I accepted and thanked him graciously. I certainly don’t hope or think about any sort of reconciliation; quite the opposite actually. In fact, I have begun dating a guy a bit.
I do hope this is the start to kinder and more mature coparenting. His anger is ever present so a reprieve would be welcome! I do wonder if my little MLCer is growing up too. Years ago when I was away on a trip to see family he could not dogsit and was a full on brat during marriage about taking care of the dog. Obnoxious teenage brat!
I have very little insight into his life nor do I want it. Saw enough, thanks very much. I never ask the boys about him or what he does. Recently though s16 told me his dad has serious issues. He then said he functions well despite a tough childhood. I listened and validated. But I did say I disagree that he functions well. I told s I think his dad lost his way in life in a way that is not high functioning. I in no way want his behavior normalized! S16 mentioned what his dad’s mom did to his dad as a kid. I told him she reinvented and deserves praise for that. It is his dad that is stuck in the past. I did tell son that we can’t control what happens that us in youth but we can learn how to cope. Grandmother had trauma too but reinvented. Victim mode is a choice and a bad one at that.
As for the guy I am seeing, I have told him I am only almost 2 years out of my marriage so it needs to be slow and light/fun for me. We work together and he said he had his eye on me since my d. I have told him no meeting my kids and all that. He told me he is patient and can wait?!!?! He is 10 years out of his d, no serious r in that time as his kids were young and he pretty much raised them himself.
He is hard working and responsible. Very attractive after living with a 50 year old frat boy. Job, no sighting of a year round Christmas tree either!!! He is funny and says I am one of the funniest women he has ever met. We play pickleball in a work group and have been friends for quite a while. Just enjoying someone who seems well adjusted and settled in himself.
Hope all is well! KML - I think your advice was pretty spot on in my case. Job - you are an angel on earth! Thanks to all!
Hi HaWho, OwnIt/OneArt here. Felt I could dip my toe here again and when I saw you posted I was so thrilled. I tried to get into the OneArt account but I've been away so long I can't remember the password and the resets aren't coming to me so I guess I'll stop worrying about him finding me. Hey darling, if you are reading this, enjoy.
So thrilled for you with the way things are working out. Did you ever finalize the divorce? I read through but may have missed it. I'll let you guess whether I'm still married or not. I can tell you that I definitely know what the withdrawal stage looks like now. Zero doubt about it. But I am happy to hear that the other side looks as rosy as I imagine.
Plan to figure out what all you lovelies have been up to while I've been plugging away and keeping my head down.
Hi Hawho, nice update! I have had to work a lot w/ my ex and she’s usually good about things and it’s so much better working together than their bs. Hopefully he does the same. I just thought I’d suggest to have a plan b for your dog, so if he bails on your it’s no sweat.
hi sweetie,
I'm so happy for you! really, after all the BS he put you through, I'm so glad you are on the other side xoxoxoxo
come visit us on the Post D board xoxoxo
How nice that the new guy "had his eye on you"
I am so happy for the update! Sounds like your MLCer may be starting to grow up. The anger will flare up from time to time, but he is going to settle down...but not on your time clock.
You went through h@ll and back w/this man and his antics. The Christmas tree year round, the plants and the frat room, dishes, etc. You came out the other side and have come a long way. You've been the sole parent to your sons and they know that you are always there for them.
As for the new man who has had his eye on you....he knows that you are the prize and he's willing to wait for you. I wish you nothing but happiness for you richly deserve it.
Hawho
Great update and all is going well. The new guy sounds great and understanding in a way you can only be from experience.
Thanks all for the lovely messages!
Job - I really did go through h€ll and back and have such a clear conscience that I did my best. Mine was such a wallower. It was a slow, arduous process. So thankful to be released from it all. Blessed, truly blessed. Ignorance is bliss and watching him crumble before my very eyes was like being stabbed to death with a dull knife.
Ownit - we are divorced and have been since March. I didn’t really post it because to me the marriage was over so much longer than that and I just worked hard to forget the whole D process, which was awful as it was like trying to use logic with a three year old. In the end, I left some things on the table, but I waited until it would have cost me the same in fees to fight for it all. And caused all the stress of lawyers and court dates. In the end, mine would have fought over pennies in the couch cushions. He loves confrontation and arguing. I am conflict avoidant.
Speaking of that dynamic, had my family wedding this weekend. So fun! It was the first time I saw extended family since the fall out. This side of the family is particularly Catholic. But they were wonderful. I was given a lot of space and dignity. Closer cousins came to discuss and support. Others gave me space. One of the most judgmental people, who is actually related to my sister’s in-laws, was someone I was particularly dreading seeing. Her h was a notorious cheater in his younger years and she put up with a lot to stay married. He chronically broke his vows. I think she wears it as a Catholic badge but I don’t think he really cleaned up his act.
Anyway, she did not say a word. But when I left she hugged me and whispered “hold your head up high” then gave me a very supportive look. It actually made me tear up. The person I dreaded the most, in the end, was the one who most fortified me! Just when you think you know how things will go; hence, make no assumptions!
Kyh - I did set up a back up to ex for dog sitting. Thanks for the wise advice. Ex was giving me a hard time before leaving by asking all sorts of questions about our travels and all that. I found it comical as the last few years, he was so checked out we were gone visiting family all the time without him! And his phone was off all the time back then as he was “starting to find himself.” Now all of a sudden he is the concerned father wanting to know what road I am driving his kids.
And the day of dog pick up, he started texting me how long the dog would be in my gated yard as it was going to rain and he didn’t want him in the rain?!?! I responded I had a covered area and he would be dry. Then he asked how long he would be outside (which I already told him when I asked him to dogsit.). So I just ignored that. He texted the kids constantly all weekend long.
To those still in the thick of it, it does get better. It really goes. We have the ability to make ourselves happy. Let go or be dragged. And when you let go, you start to soar!
I'm glad you were pleasantly surprised by the family member. So nice when people exceed our expectations, rather than fail to meet them.
I love the pennies in the couch allusion. Mine is extraordinarily conflict avoidant and passive aggressive. I am far more direct. I wouldn't even mind confrontation and arguing if we could get to an end point from it. I just see a negotiation style that is directed to never reaching a resolution, so rather than negotiating against myself in frustration, I just let him spin his wheels, at least for now, and sit back and eat the popcorn.
I'm glad you are past all the court stuff and can focus on having a wonderful life. Can't wait to read what exciting things you and the boys get up to.
Tomorrow is my 5 year anniversary of BD. It is unbelievable that a 1/2 decade has passed and still more unreal what happened in the following years.
Sometimes still, I think of who my ex was and cannot reconcile who he became. And yet, when I think back on it there were some head scratching moments in our life together that now, in hindsight, show he was heading on a collision course. Recently, I came across a photo of him when he just turned thirty. He had a tough time with that number. Aging was always an issue for him. And sure enough, in the photo there is an oddness to his eyes. They are not shark eyes but deer in headlights.
I know now that anyone who has an MLC was always a bit broken. We gloss over the oddities because we are fixers.
Ex still ignores me completely if we are at the same event for kids. It is sad for the kids.
I have very few glimpses into his life. What little I see is very unimpressive. He is buddies with s17 in a way that I know will bite him when S17 grows up. Many months ago S17 would not clean up his room. This was over a year ago, soon after ex moved out. My niece was visiting and I told him it needed to be done before she came. He stalled and stalled. The night before her arrival I put the screws to him and said it needed to be cleaned now. He started to text his dad spinning some story to get out of it. I called ex and explained what was happening and asked him not to involve himself as son needed to clean his room.
Well, ex picked him up and let him stay at his house for days. That is the person with whom I am coparenting. Pathetic abuse of his power as an adult. And I called him and said to him he should be a father not a best buddy, sent him a pic of the room (truly gross- just like ex’s dorm room used to be, hah). Then I turned off s17’s cell service and told him it was punishment for not cleaning his room. Ex told me s would not leave his house until I turned the phone back on. See that? So smart of ex to be son’s wingman and build that buddy relationship.
The two of them just grew closer. Better buddies through it all. One other time, same thing: ex took s17 in when he wanted to get out of chores. It was really sad to see that manipulation in my son. But I could see they were the same mental age: too teens using each other to get what they wanted.
I know this will blow up on ex once S17 grows up and realizes his father was more interested in being liked than telling him to fulfill his responsibilities. Ex also involves s17 in matters like bills we are paying and says dishonest things like I don’t pay my half. It is so sad how ex is more interested in being liked than being a real dad.
Ex still always brings up how much he has to pay me. He definitely thought the D would be something he controlled. He tried to write his own proposal! Uhh, I’ll pass on that and get a lawyer. He recently made a comment that he “gifts” me money. I was straight and said he does not “gift” me anything, rather, he is “ordered” to pay this by the state of California. Uh, you don’t have any control here buddy.
A few weeks ago, s17 was very rude to me on the phone. Long story short, I told him I would not be spoken to that way. He buddied up with his dad and decided to stay there on days he was supposed to be with me. He has learned he can get out of things by running over there. Sad. I texted ex saying this was all bad, s17 was learning how to get out of being responsible, learning to run away and it was wrong of ex to buddy up with him. Ex told me his house would always be open to s17?!?!?! Umm, so he can run away from his chores and from being respectful?!???!
The days s17 stayed with ex were hard, dark days for me. I felt like the only adult in the room. By the third day s was supposed to be with me, he wasn’t even texting me that he was not coming home. It was very painful and stressful. I realized I was defanged by this immature relationship the two of them built. Anytime I tried to parent, s could run to daddy.
It was not a relationship I wanted anymore. So unhealthy on all fronts. I had to let go. I started divorce busting my kid. I detached and acted as if. I stopped calling or texting him. I was not going to bend this time. Ex texted me saying that if I wanted s17 back I was going to have to call and ask him back?!?! No thank you. Done negotiating with two manipulative 17 year olds. I did not answer. I left them to each other. In my head, I treated it like the affair partner relationship. Give them to each other.
Many days later when s17 was supposed to be at my house he returned and was there when I came home from work. I just acted as if. I think he could sense something in me had changed; which it had. I let go and dropped that rope to save my sanity.
That night he first returned S17 texted me from downstairs asking to talk. I ignored it. It was late and I was going to bed and didn’t need the stress. That too is different for me; ever the fixer. I am finally learning how to take care of myself. He came upstairs and he initiated the conversation. He told me he wanted a better relationship with me and that he recognized he made a mistake and that he needs to follow my rules. He was quite upset, crying through it. I was not. Also a first. I was very matter of fact. I told him I loved him but this behavior did not work for me. I was candid and called him out on his manipulation and said it was sad that his father and him tag teamed up in this fashion. I said if he wanted a better relationship with me, that needed to stop.
Things got better from there. I texted s the next day and thanked him for talking. And most importantly, I see glimpses of s growing up. I know someday s will remember these events and understand he was being used by ex. Funny enough, ex had a buddy relationship with his dad and step mom growing up. It took him until his 30’s to see it. He told me once that he smoked pot with his step mom when he was in 3rd grade and then took a bath high. I was appalled and told him she put his life at risk. He could have fallen asleep high and drowned. He glossed it over but when our first son was in 3rd grade he finally understood what she had done and he lost respect for her. I know s will lose respect from him, too.
My sense is ex has zero life. He seems always available to hang out with s17. I don’t get the sense there is a raging romantic relationship for ex. I could be wrong but it does not seem so. He stands all by himself at events. Just comical as he could not wait to get away from me to build this amazing fun life. He moved 1 mile away and seems to be working feverishly to be besties with S17.
As for me, things are pretty good 5 years out. I survived and am stronger and wiser for it. I stay pretty busy but also relax on the nights I don’t have the kids. I sit by the fire and just enjoy the peace in my life after so much turmoil.
I am still dating this same guy. And that has been nice so far. He is very funny and we laugh a lot. He appreciates me and tells me that often. My sister was visiting and he met her. He made dinner for us which is something my ex never could do. He is very settled in himself. No issues with running from aging. This guy is all grown up which is super important to me after witnessing life with a man child. He cooks, cleans, irons, gardens; Renaissance man. And no, I am not dating Andrew!!!
amazing story with your S 17
Im sure that was pretty difficult to go through without fully knowing the outcome
It shows the impact you have had on him for the positive
Good Morning HaWho
Kids need a parent not a best friend. Well done!
There is much similarity in the growing up needed for a MLCer and an adolescent teenager. The MLCer is just cranked to 11 is all; much much more irrational.
At five years out you do sound great. Sitting by the fire and enjoying the peace of your life. It’s wonderful.
S17 is growing up just fine; he’s got a great example in you. Undoubtedly he will still push your buttons and test your boundaries. Kids are supposed too, they need too; it’s part of growing up.
My D17 is following a similar path as her three brothers; boy vs girl does change things a bit though.
In five more years your S17 will be S22; like my oldest. They do a lot of growing up, it’s something to see.
How is other son doing? I’m unsure if he is 15 or 19; following or leading.
It was really good hearing from you. Have a great a Sunday.
DnJ
You handled the situation w/your son very, very well. DB is not just for the MIA spouses as you have shown. It can be used in day-to-day situations as well. Well done!
I do hope that your son realizes that he has a great mom who would do anything for him.
Hang in there!
And sure enough, in the photo there is an oddness to his eyes. They are not shark eyes but deer in headlights.
I see sadness and depression in so many of H's photos throughout the years. And a sense he was not engaged in life that was happening at the time. So much time wasted, IMO. For him.
I know now that anyone who has an MLC was always a bit broken. We gloss over the oddities because we are fixers.
Boy does this ring true. I swept so many things under the rug, or made excuses for H about why he was acting the way he was. I, too, am a fixer. It took this crisis to realize I can't fix anyone. They have to fix themselves, but can't unless they want to or have the courage to even start.
The sitch with your Ex and son - makes me wonder what is worse. No relationship (ignoring), or trying to be buddies. Neither are good in any event.
Glad you are happy.
Grace
Hi Hawho,
Wow you really handled the situation with your son so well. He respects and trusts you. You made a safe space for him. As he gets older, he may recognize the lack of substance in his relationship with his dad... which is so sad.
I’m happy to read the rest of the update. You are a warrior and I’m glad things are good with you 5 years out. Also happy to read about your new relationship! What a nice reprieve!
Wishing you all the best!
Life and relationships of any kind will always have their ups and downs. Parenting probably moreso than others. I loved reading how you handled your sons behaviour and how it turned out. It shows the power of healthy boundaries. Your son respects you for calling him on his sht. Well done.
I always knew you would thrive, but it's great to hear (read) you say it. Now that that weight has been lifted from you, you are shining. Your new man sees that.It is likely that exH will see that sooner or later, if he doesn't already. Whether he does or not it doesn't matter, he lost something special when he left you.
This process could have broken you too. Not many would have managed to stand like you did. Instead you have come out the other side and not only living a good life but thriving. I couldn't wish anything more for you. You deserve it.
Best wishes
HaWho, pretty rotten of him to engage in that sort of thing, but pretty typical in divorce I think (whether or not in MLC-land). What a blessing that OD is so messed up that he can't pull off that sort of thing.
I do from time to time remind myself that the behaviors I see in the kids are not all OD-related and some are just that trying teenage time. Case in point, my D was being difficult about 8 months ago and got mad at me for a parental decision I made and stopped speaking to me. I DBed her and gave her the time and space to think things through. A few weeks later I got a tearful call from her with an apology for not communicating and we have been closer than ever since.
What a great lesson too for these kids to learn. That we can be angry with someone who sets appropriate boundaries and then come to our own conclusion about how we behaved and make amends. In general everyone needs a swift kick in the butt (metaphorically) every once in a while to straighten them out.
Time to start another thread and link them together.