Do I get a prize for making it to my 18th thread?
Well, I’m still here and feeling better than I have in a looong time. Still not married nor divorced and I’m okay with that for now.
I gained about 10 pounds of winter weight that I’m working off to get back to my beach body (joke). I bought myself that present. It wasn’t for w or kids or the house. It was just for me and I’m happy with my purchase. I went away for the weekend, just the kids and me and we had a great time. Work is going great.
I’m reading and thinking more about forgiveness and what that means. I am continuing to keep my distance and she has been continuing to warm up to me. She laid her head on my chest one night and snuggled with me for a little while before going to her room. I resisted the temptation to do anything sexual as I didn’t sense any desire other than to be close. I think she may suggest we sleep together again (sleep, not sex). She asked if we can go out on a date and I said yes. I’ll keep it low key, nothing fancy. Also, she said she had a falling out with her pro-divorce single friend.
Just want to say thanks for all of you who have walked this path with me. Looking back, I was a giant, depressed mess when I started posting here. And as you have said, even if I don’t save the M, I’ll have saved myself. Peace.
Gordie, you are doing really well. So happy you feel better than you have in quite a while. Things are sure looking interesting, you even got a date lined up.
You have come a very long way. Much respect for you.
Well, no reconciliation dreams this week. Instead, I’ve been having ultra realistic nightmares where we are fighting with each other. The dreams are so real that I wake up screaming and my heart is racing and I can’t fall back to sleep.
Well, no reconciliation dreams this week. Instead, I’ve been having ultra realistic nightmares where we are fighting with each other. The dreams are so real that I wake up screaming and my heart is racing and I can’t fall back to sleep.
Yep - had those too. The wake-up is usually around 2:00 am for me when they happen.
That's such good news Gordie - I'm so happy to read your post today. My heart is made happy to know she's coming around.
As for the sleep, I'm the same way AndrewP... almost every night, 2 am no matter what. The brain just starts going and I can't turn it off.
Now I take half a table of hydroxyzine and 10mg of time released melatonin and I'm sleeping through it.
This sounds pretty good so far Gordie, however, do you get the feeling that she is actually changing from the inside or do you think she is still kinda lost? Does it feel genuine?
My W still is totally lost oftentimes between the few snuggling moments we have once in a while...
Well, sounds like the stress is spilling out during your sleep which is pretty normal given all you've been through.
Just want you to know I am thinking of you. Keep taking care of you and your kiddos.
Andrew. OC, Neutral, HaWho,
Thanks for stopping by. Yes, sleep has recently been very interrupted. Maybe I’m just acting happy on the outside and internalizing the stress. Is she actually turning around? I hope so, but I don’t know. Trying to keep my expectations low. It works better that way. When I raise them, something happens to remind me that we are still deep in the woods.
***
Journaling
So many have said that at BD both partners were likely unhappy. It’s taken 18 months but I am realizing some of the ways I was unhappy too. More when I have time.
Journaling
So many have said that at BD both partners were likely unhappy. It’s taken 18 months but I am realizing some of the ways I was unhappy too. More when I have time.
Gordie
It is not uncommon for both sides to re-write the history of the marriage, at BD they are scrambling to justify their actions which puts the LBS into scrambling trying to talk them out of it painting the picture of family and how happy they are while the other paints as miserable a picture as they can ... truth is both are on opposite ends of the extreme to promote their own agenda.
Took me a long time to realize I was in denial about the state of my marriage .. I was neither happy nor unhappy .. just 'there' going through the motions and doing what I thought I was to do to 'make' her happy .... foolish and something I now recognize more out of co-dependent rather than 'love' tbh, it was not love when she was in full replay/monster mode.
So we pull back and reflect ... we actually start putting ourselves first and place those boundaries as we do the mirror work. Your W may be processing alot and looking at herself in a different light, allow her to do this and keep doing your own mirror work and ask yourself what a happy marriage looks like to you... in time you can start working towards this but for now remember she most likely can only work on herself before she can really roll her sleeves up and work on the marriage.
Keep digging.
Gordie ... "and the days I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, well I have really good days" xoxoxo You may want to google a song called Mother Blues by Ray Wylie Hubbard ... that line is from that song
Gordie,
I stepped away from the boards for a while but came back today and really wanted to see how you were doing. It sounds like you are doing pretty good and I am very happy to hear that. Sorry to hear about the nightmares, but that seems fairly normal considering. It will pass in time...especially as your day thoughts continue to become more positive.
Stay strong, brother!!
Cali,
Thank you so much. My ghost of Christmas future! Dude, I swear you have a crystal ball.
I haven’t read that before. That both re write history at b d. And I think that’s true. Like you, I was neither happy nor unhappy. TBH, this feeling of just going through the motions was a cause in my de-emphasis on her and the M. I had my own resentments.
I feel like my w has always judged me and somehow I was never good enough for her. She was always comparing me unfavorably to her father and other men.
She would never say she was sorry. If we got into a fight, she’d go cold and give me the silent treatment until I broke the ice. Somehow, the only way to do that was to say I was sorry...no matter who did what to whom. And often times the fights were over little things and I felt like I never knew what we were really fighting about.
She withheld sex from me. This built up resentment on both sides. Neither was happy.
She was a spender and I was a saver. If I made $50k, she wanted more. If I made $100k, she wanted more. If I made $200k, she wanted more. No matter how much I made, it was never enough. She felt I was stingy and I felt like she was reckless.
She is full of gratitude towards friends and strangers. But to me at home? There was no gratitude. She resented being a SAHM and giving up her career and being financially dependent on me. She felt trapped and we both felt we took each other for granted.
More digging...
Hi Gordie
Glad your W is warming up. Still go slow
On your nightmares, I had those too for at least 2 years. I saw it more as fights we never had. After BD I was dazed and focussed on the kids. Didn’t have a chance to argue and besides what she was selling made no sense. So in my dreams I told her what I wanted to but never did.
Funny just reading your post today on her never apologizing or breaking the ice first. I too , like you and I think many have said it here we’re always the one to step forward and fix things . While they sweep it under the rug like it never happened.
I see that as a character flaw and in MLC is enhanced.
Take care buddy
I’m still rooting for you
She would never say she was sorry. If we got into a fight, she’d go cold and give me the silent treatment until I broke the ice. Somehow, the only way to do that was to say I was sorry...no matter who did what to whom. And often times the fights were over little things and I felt like I never knew what we were really fighting about.
Gord, I agree and was in the same boat with regards to my w. Is this something that they experienced and learned from their mothers? Who know...but it is not something that is normal. As a fixer we would always try to fix what was wrong even if we didn't cause it or break it. That isn't healthy.
She withheld sex from me. This built up resentment on both sides. Neither was happy.
Again, this is not something that should be tolerated, but in an unhealthy M I'm sure it happens more than we know.
She was a spender and I was a saver. If I made $50k, she wanted more. If I made $100k, she wanted more. If I made $200k, she wanted more. No matter how much I made, it was never enough. She felt I was stingy and I felt like she was reckless.
Most people that are depressed and or having a feeling of a void trying to be filled are like this. Mine was no exception. She did make good money, but we had stacks from Amazon on the porch daily and there were always new things in the closet. Not setting boundaries myself, it definitely got out of hand.
She is full of gratitude towards friends and strangers. But to me at home? There was no gratitude. She resented being a SAHM and giving up her career and being financially dependent on me. She felt trapped and we both felt we took each other for granted.
Mine too praised everyone but me. It took her leaving to realize that I never got that anyway. It is definitely my #2 love language (praise and affirmation) just behind the physical touch. The problem I see is that most marriages lack the proper communication to tell their spouse what they need out of the M.
It's funny that God puts us in situations that we need to be in to open our eyes to what he wants to teach us. You are still learning so much it is great see and learn from all of our relationships. Stay strong my friend.
I was neither happy nor unhappy. TBH, this feeling of just going through the motions was a cause in my de-emphasis on her and the M. I had my own resentments.
Check
She would never say she was sorry. If we got into a fight, she’d go cold and give me the silent treatment until I broke the ice. Somehow, the only way to do that was to say I was sorry...no matter who did what to whom.
Check
She withheld sex from me. This built up resentment on both sides. Neither was happy.
Check
She was a spender and I was a saver. If I made $50k, she wanted more. If I made $100k, she wanted more. If I made $200k, she wanted more. No matter how much I made, it was never enough. She felt I was stingy and I felt like she was reckless.
Check - although in the last few years she became quite frugal as we recovered from a financial mess and my income steadily increased. She was quite proud of her frugality but also kept wanting nicer and nicer things.
She is full of gratitude towards friends and strangers. But to me at home? There was no gratitude.
Check
Same song, different singers.
I think one key difference in our situations was that for my ex her OM was a moderate step up in financial capability so that gave her more incentive to "complete the transaction". I heard from friends that she was bragging about the life they would have together and the large amount of money he got from his wife's insurance policy after she died. Yep - low class gold-digger.
This conflicted with her need to appear to be a fabulous person to the world. Hence her interactions with others - who she would talk down about behind their backs and her volunteer work - which she would rage and complain about in private.
I recall her fear after her affair going on for a year on the night before she finally moved out that it would become public that she cheated on me if I filed for divorce on the grounds of adultery. There was true horror in her and rage at me for even considering it since "but people would know" as she said. I'm not sure how many people believe her lies but most people in our circle know. She does have a separate non-overlapping much smaller circle of friends these days I believe.
Perhaps if your W had landed a well-off widower with a large insurance settlement and an active business your situation would have gone more like mine.
Writing this reminds me of my ex's brother. A few years ago he was caught having an EA (there was probably other cheating and PAs over time). When going through mediation he found out that his wife controlled all the money and that he would be scr3w3d in any settlement. They reconciled. Seeing him is like seeing a prisoner under guard. A very nervous man who is superficially trying to make his wife happy but doesn't seem happy about it. His wife has a long list of excuses and reasons for his cheating like "he was tired and the kids made too much noise in the house" and "we didn't involve him in things but he wasn't home anyway" etc. I figure that he's probably either been cheating all along or will as soon as he figures he can get away with it and keep the money. In talking to him when I was trying to get him to tell my W of the time that reconciliation was a good idea he was contemptuous of me and my attempts, believed that cheating was normal and that great relationships come from it, and that the only reason his EA wasn't a PA was that he was too lazy to drive up to see his AP.
I'm so glad that family is no longer in my life.
Irish, SBJ, Andrew,
Wow. I thought I was a unique snowflake. I guess not.
Yes, go slow. I was feeling impatient yesterday. Some temptation to say something. How long is this going to take? When will my patience run out? Will we ever sleep together again? What do my children think of this limbo?
And being the one to break the ice? Yes. You are right. That is a fixer trait. I cleaned up her messes. She did something to hurt her R with her H? I tried to fix it. Why didn’t I let her fix it? I believed in the don’t let the sun go down on your anger philosophy. But I twisted it. Usually, it was she who was angry and I was desperate to make her un-angry. Is it somehing they learned from their mothers? I don’t know. Was the response something we learned from our fathers? I don’t know.
Re sex, I think that I allowed W to be the gatekeeper to the sexual R. When did we have sex? Whenever she was willing. I don’t think I even know what a great sex life looks like where both partners desire and fulfill one another. She was willing, but the times when I truly felt desired were few and far between. So yes, sex became routine and devoid of passion. She wasn’t satisfied. I wasn’t satisfied.
Re the never ending stream of new stuff. Yes, I’ve seen that movie. Reflecting, I didn’t want to “control” her spending. I tried to have conversations about it like, “our” spending is way over budget. I’m concerned that “our” credit card bills are too high. I wouldn’t come out and say: you are spending more than we can afford. I avoided the conflict. I didn’t want her to be unhappy. I cut my own spending. I made more money. I dug us out of debt multiple times. Good news is she’s stopped the over spending. I see that as a good sign.
Re gratitude. Yes! I never realized words of affirmation were that important to me and then I did that test at the end of the book and wow! And then I realized I was starved of that from my w. But I didn’t even know it.
Gordie - That's some good solid introspection there.
{{{{{gordie}}}}}
keep going. you're doing great!
#teamgordie
So struggling a bit with feelings that w is taking advantage of me. She’s taking advantage of my kindness and loyalty and always being there and doing whatever she wants with no consequences and...I don’t know...I guess this is where the forgivnesss comes in and forgiving people who don’t ask for forgiveness. Keep digging. Forgiveness frees me, right? I can choose to be resentful and angry or I can choose to let go and be free, right? I think it’s expectations creeping above zero and wanting her to do or say something to get closer to R, but I can only control me. I’ve been on a good run lately and my situation hasn’t changed, so not sure why these feelings are coming up now.
Gordie - those feelings are coming up because they're true.
Let's parse out what you're saying keeping in mind where I'm coming from on my own journey. I tend to be more skeptical of happy endings these days.
w is taking advantage of me.Yep - and if I remember correctly this was the case for your whole marriage. It was for mine.
She’s taking advantage of my kindness and loyalty and always being there and doing whatever she wants with no consequencesShe's got it pretty darned good and she should know this but doesn't show appreciation. She perhaps selfishly thinks it to be her "due" or "just the way things should be".
I guess this is where the forgivnesss comes in and forgiving people who don’t ask for forgiveness.Nope - Forgiveness is your letting go of things that upset you. It is not a
requirement not even for a Christian man like yourself. I'm sure others who know their scripture better than a skeptic like me can dig into this more.
I can choose to be resentful and angry or I can choose to let go and be free, right? ..... but I can only control meYou are the only one you can control. You have every right to be resentful and angry and if you were talking to a friend you would very likely tell them that yourself. Even though it doesn't seem like it, each day that you are there stuck in IHS you are accumulating fresh hurts.
I’ve been on a good run lately and my situation hasn’t changed, so not sure why these feelings are coming up now.Roller coasters go up and down and you signed up for the big loop-de-loop one. The roller coaster isn't just triggered by events. Our emotions cycle up and down all on their own without outside influences. I've not (essentially) seen my ex for almost 2 years now but earlier this week was driving down the road weeping, triggered by an audio-book I was listening to.
You've been here long enough to have read more than once Sandi2's comment that she's never seen a reconciliation with in-house separation. I think I saw the beginning of one once quite a while ago here but can't remember the thread.
Heaven knows that I am no expert on any of this, much less the lives of people hundreds of miles away that I only know from one side and only through those parts that have been shared.
Let's for a moment imagine that your W is a rebellious teenager. The resemblance may be uncanny
Aforesaid teen goes out with their friends, has a few beers and comes home and wanders in the door smoking a joint. What happens? Consequences. What is the hoped for results? Teen pulls up their pants (still can't believe that plumber-butt is still a fashion statement) after a 3 hour lecture and either
A - sits in their room sulking that the world isn't fair and then goes out and does it again
B - gets better at not letting their parents know that they are partying
C - moves out and discovers what the real world is like
D - gets their act together
A few tough words now that may or may not be true in your case so I'll describe my own past. This also is just my own opinion of what happened and may not be the reality of the situation. I'll never know.
My ex said that she was hugely conflicted about whether to leave or not. She said she cried her eyes out all the time. BUT she still picked OM and leaving.
Even after that my ex kept me hanging for nearly a FULL YEAR while not having to invest one iota of effort to keep me hanging. I hung myself from that tree. Even after 2 YEARS she has never actually pushed me away / let me go. After the negotiations for the settlement she said that she wasn't interested in divorce. I was grateful that the lawyers wrote in that she would do the filing (even if there now seem to be inexplicable delays).
During IHS she would rub my face in the fact that she was choosing OM over me and seemed to glory in the fact that we were "fighting over her" (sound familiar?)
IMO - part of what caused things to drag out for me, and for you are the fact that there are no consequences to their actions. In my case, my ex chose to leave and I literally was on my knees begging her to stay. In your case she's got the safety net of you and is trying to rebuild a respectable life while you after popping your own head out into the world decided to head back inside to the perceived comfort and safety you had almost left behind. That doesn't mean she's chosen you as a partner. She's just weighing her options while you are being a good boy sitting in the hallway waiting for her to decide.
To be frank, I do regret not tossing my ex out when she first said that she wanted to leave and especially after I found out that she'd been unfaithful for the better part of a year. It would have saved me a whole lot of pain and made her face the consequences of her choices a whole lot faster. But that's not the sort of men that people like you and I are and we get taken advantage of for it.
I'm sure that like me you've done a lot of reading of other people's stories. I've read a bunch of stories with the genders switched where the dutiful wife overlooks her husbands infidelities and lack of respect and just sits there mouse-like for decades. That was the case for my ex-inlaws in fact. My ex describes how her mother couldn't get out of bed because of the depression of the knowledge of her husband's infidelities. On the surface they had a "happy marriage" for over 60 years. One thing my ex told me though while digging for excuses to leave me was that she didn't want us to be sitting in a nursing home sniping at each other like her parents. Maybe there was some love there. But there was no respect. It was a facade only. Not a marriage between loving equals.
Sorry Gordie. There are no easy answers. There are only tough questions.
All of us here have lots of opinions but the only real answers will come from within your own soul. And remember. It's OK to come up with the "wrong" answers that feel right at the time. Just recognize please when it's time to change course. It may not be now but you're not heading in direction you are wanting to go.
Andrew,
Thanks for the insight. You have me lots to chew on. I think she’s hard to categorize at this point. She’s a little bit of:
A. Sulking in he room that the world isn’t fair but isn’t going out (for now)
B. Is better @hiding her behavior (don’t think so as she has been more of a home body and then tells me when and where she is going)
C. Is finding out a little more about the world but with my safety net.
D. Getting her act together in baby steps, nothing dramatic.
I did speak to my DB coach and she thought w was doing better than I was giving her credit for. She thought I was expecting big steps and actions but that what I am seeing are baby steps. I should embrace the baby steps. I should be patient. I should keep expectations low. This will take time, a long time.
Journaling:
So w asked me to go out on a date again this weekend. This was our second. Our first one last week was a very awkward first date. It was short and light. And like a clueless guy after a first date, I did not know if it would lead to a second. Well, this second went much better. We engaged in an activity of her choosing which also involved a long drive as it was about an hour away. Afterward she asked if I wanted to go to dinner or go home and I asked her what she wanted to do. She indicated that she’d like to go out to dinner so I found a place within walking distance and had an amazing meal. Conversation flowed freely. Our waiter had movie star good looks and I noticed her noticing but this surprisingly didn’t bother me. We actually joked about it. All in, we spent about six hours together which is the most we have spent together in a very, very long time. No R talk. She gave me a hug at the end of the date and thanked me for such a good time.
Gordie. Two dates. Wow. The second one sounded like it went really well.
Be patient she is making baby steps right now. You remember the DR book. What small step would you need or like to see in the next month or so to show that you are on the right track to reaching your goal?
Keep it up, to me it looks like it is working.
Forgiveness is your letting go of things that upset you. It is not a requirement not even for a Christian man like yourself. I'm sure others who know their scripture better than a skeptic like me can dig into this more.
Matthew 6:14-16
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (NIV)
Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Just two of many verses in scripture regarding forgiveness. It's not always easy and maybe not possible right away, but it's clear that it is expected of Christians. It's also a frequent topic of Christian sermons.
Gordie
I can see you're struggling with keeping your expectations low. I certainly would be!
I also think you're going to struggle with forgiveness that hasn't been requested. I don't think that part applies to marriage partners in situations where they've broken their vows. That is a monumental breach of trust, and to turn the other cheek, especially without the other party owning their sh*t, is not a requirement. What is a requirement is that you do not retaliate in kind. That you do not seek to punish. That you let the marriage partner find their way without being forced.
In order to grant true forgiveness your W will have to own up to the damage she's done. Does she want you guys to get back together without acknowledgement of wrongdoing or incidental damage to the children - all the damage she's done - and without remorse?
Could you really live the rest of your life with this woman without her doing her bit to keep your relationship healthy? I don't know if it's DBing to offer unconditional love to somebody who cannot or will not offer genuine contrition. That sounds like desperation or masochism to me.
I realise it's very early days, and the path to reconciliation is full of ups and downs. There is still time for your W to do her part and to be honest, I really hope she will. However, I think in order for you to deal with the internal critic you have, you need to decide what is going to be enough for you to keep going. I think you've found some evidence to suggest that she's moving towards you, but is it going to be enough without at least an acknowledgement of where she's been?
I also think you're going to struggle with forgiveness that hasn't been requested. I don't think that part applies to marriage partners in situations where they've broken their vows. That is a monumental breach of trust, and to turn the other cheek, especially without the other party owning their sh*t, is not a requirement
There are many misconceptions regarding what forgiveness is and what it isn't and it's definitely not 'turning the other cheek'. It also has nothing to do with condoning the behaviour of someone, vows or no vows, that you are trying to forgive. Or returning to a situation where a massive breach of trust occurred.
I'm not trying to convert anyone here but if you are giving advice to a Christian follower, then you should take care that the advice you give does not contradict Christian scriptures or doctrine.
This two articles might give further clarity:
http://www.thecourage.com/what-forgiveness-is-and-what-it-isnt/https://www.christiantoday.com/article/is-it-ever-ok-not-to-forgive-someone/103117.htm
DNJ, Devvo, Adios,
Thanks for the thoughts. My favorite forgiveness quote which has been on my mind is a Good Friday quote: “Forgive them, they know not what they do.” Luke 23:34. So during our last R talk back in January when we did have some discussion about what it would take to get back together, I did say: you have no idea how much you have hurt me. And she replied: no, I do not.
I do believe that we are called to forgive as we have been forgiven. We didn’t earn it. We don’t deserve it. God freely and lovingly forgives us. But of course, I am a very flawed and sinful and wounded human being so this is very difficult to do.
Adios, I do like the comments in the article about what forgives is not. It’s not sweeping things under the rug. It’s not pretending that the wrong wasn’t so bad or that the pain inflicted wasn’t real.
DNJ, thanks for the DB questions. For what steps am I looking?
Little steps:
Social - wanting to spend more time with me, wanting to spend more time together as a family
Emotional - right now, all focus remains on her but I’d like for her to express interest in me too
Physical - can we move beyond touching as friends? Could she hold my hand? Let me touch her like a man touches a woman?
Big steps:
Social - wanting to be my wife in public again with friends and family
Emotional - rebuilding trust, taking down walls, wanting to be vulnerable
Physical - rekindling sexual attraction, sleeping together, building a new sex life
Devvo, what’s enough for me? I’m trying to be patient and play the long game. As long as she is doing what she needs to do on her own and is not cheating on me, I am willing to be very patient in waiting for her to grow closer to me and giving us a chance to be more than friends and roommates.
Dang Gord, it seems like things are moving in a positive direction. I agree with you that they are so self absorbed that they have no idea of how badly they have hurt us.
Your little steps are on point I think. Obviously I have not been able to experience them, but they look good. Slow and steady my friend. I assume that once they embrace those small steps, the big steps will occur naturally.
You have been extremely patient. I strive to continue to have as much patience as you have shown. Stay the course my brother.
Just passing by with a bucket of cold water.
I think we all (especially me) can recall times when we thought things were "going in a positive direction" just to be wrong.
There is so much happening that we don't know and perhaps never will know. I used to go for long walks earlier in my journey while still being in in-house separation and used to stop from time to time to jump up and down and squash the "hope gremlins" (probably looked silly). I still believed in them much to my dissapointment.
Each of our stories are different but also very very similar.
Andrew,
My life is a big cold shower. It makes me very cautious.
So question I have is when is it okay to be less cautious? To open myself up more? I think of you and Cali and countless others who have gotten burned.
SBJ,
Thank you and happy Easter!
Gordie,
I am concerned you are going to let her slowly inch her way back into the family life like nothing happened.
Are you going to look the other way regarding the affairs?
I am a strong believer that she has to earn another chance with you. If the work is not done, IMO you will be back here in a couple years.
Hi Gordie, I think the best way just now is to keep the focus on you and not be watching for steps and signs. Focus on your own growth as a man, and a father and a partner - for the future.
Now isn't the time to let down your guard and expect more. She's not there yet - and not really close to being there IMHO and from all that you have posted.
You are in 'housemate' territory - and for now I would be grateful that she is still there - and divorce was paused - that's all good.
But as for the rest of your focus? Keep it largely on you. There is work for her to do yet...
Gordie
Caught up a bit on you and pulled this out
So struggling a bit with feelings that w is taking advantage of me. She’s taking advantage of my kindness and loyalty and always being there and doing whatever she wants with no consequences and...I don’t know...I guess this is where the forgivnesss comes in
So I will tell you, back in Mar15 when my mlcr had her moment of clarity (Seems to always be in Mar as she is showing another one currently but less severe) I was about where you are now, maybe a little ahead as she was actively scrambling to save the M by looking at couple retreats, being completely trasnparent when it came to OM, their history and how it ended (So I thought)
So the feelings I had at the time I compared to this: It was like you moved from your old house ... a house you didn't care for and boxed everything up and put it in the attic. Now you find yourself in a new house and you need something from those boxes ... trick is you are not sure which box it is. So you timidly bring all those boxes down and start unpacking them, in a way this is forcing you to confront things you really do not want to ... the resentment, the betrayal, the justice of it all just seems so unfair. Why does she get to rip up the family, have her affair and then expect to just come right back in as if nothing ever happened right? Yup ... I lived that ... like you I struggled to let go of that.
I forced her to thow out anything that even made me think of OM, the bed .. gone ... the Christmas tree I did not recognize .. gone ... that nice blouse I was certain she bought for him .. gone. I was secretly still punishing her along the way but using my hurt as an excuse, had little to do with that ... I wanted justice and wanted her to hurt as I did.
You have to get to a point where the past is the past, and look at now and the future. You have already experienced the hell and the worst that could happen in a marriage. If she darts back in the tunnel or if she works on herself you have no control over this. Just keep working on you and focus on that.
Another tip I will give you .... if on a date and it seems you have a choice to decide whether to go home, eat, coffee .. you choose ... Lead as a Husband and man would lead and make the choice for the both of you. You will need to lead a bit more and guide her in many ways .. doing this is like a small GAL but for you both ... you will understand this more later.
My thought is if you are asking then the answer is, “not yet.”
LH19,
I ask myself that question all the time? Am I just letting her off easy with no consequences? But I thought I was not the one to give consequences? Should she have to earn her way back? What does that even mean? This is what I discussed with d b coach. She isn’t doing any of the “steps” that one desires to see: remorse, acknowledging the error of one’s ways. So I am being patient. Does that make me a doormat?
Sotto,
I think you are right. Focus still needs to be one me, not her. Keep expectations low. Stop hoping for the big signs and just keep living my life which is still pretty awesome all things considered.
Cali,
You are always spot on. I love that anaology of the boxes from the attic. Wow. It hits the nail on the head. But here’s the big question: how do you get to that point where the past is the past? Isn’t that sweeping it under the rug? I clearly still am angry and agitated about all that had passed.
Butterfly,
Agree. Not yet ready to open myself up. Guard is still firmly up.
Journaling:
So my little guy is expressing himself. One day, w came to a kid event separately from me and came in late and sat in the back. That was fine with me. Little guy goes to the back and takes her hand and walks her up to where the rest of us are sitting. Another day, I come home from work and give him a hug and he tells me: you should hug mom. And then another day we are eating dinner and he asks about OM2. No one has spoken his name in a few months. I say nothing. W says nothing.
This whole thing remind me of The Emporer Has No Clothes.
Another note: w has recently been wearing her ring again. I still do not wear my ring. We have not spoken of this. If asked, what do I say? I don’t feel like putting it on again because I don’t feel she has fully recommitted to the M. I feel like this is currently a M of convenience for her. It currently serves her purposes. This temporary state will end either in a recommitment to M or D. It will not last forever. I am choosing to hang in here, for now, in the hopes that she continues to work on herself and that one day she will be able to work on the M. On my glass half full days, I do feel as if she is making her baby steps and testing the waters.
Last note for today: I had another sleepless night last night. Only 3 or 4 hours of sleep and I have a big day ahead of me today. It’s gonna be a big coffee day.
It's really REALLY hard to stop focusing on the weakest link, the MLCr, and put the focus back on yourself.
When you say you're hanging in there for now. . . ok. what are YOU doing while she's making her baby steps? I'm sure it's not the case (I hope it's not the case) but lately when I read some of your posts it feels like you're in observation/wait and see mode. I think it's to your detriment, if that's the case.
* What are your current GALs?
* What are your short term and long term goals for yourself, Gordie the man (not Gordie the LBS, not Gordie the dad, not Gordie the friend or employee)?
* In what ways are you challenging yourself?
* In what ways are you changing the person who was left behind?
* In what ways are you working on yourself so that you are someone only a fool would choose to divorce?
These have nothing to do with your w and everything to do with you. By being passive and watching you are indeed letting go of the personal power you took back months ago.
Put another way: while this situation may be for w's convenience, it is also for yours. Focus on what you want, how you want to live, who you want to be or become. You might find that you really don't want w. You might find that you really do. For sure, you will find yourself.
much love
#teamGordie
Gord - hope I wasn't too harsh or out of line xoxoxoxo b.
I ask myself that question all the time? Am I just letting her off easy with no consequences? But I thought I was not the one to give consequences? Should she have to earn her way back? What does that even mean?
G,
First off all choices have consequences good or bad.
What I mean is if there is no remorse, no apology, no hard work nothing will change. This will not happen until she fears she might lose you or she misses you.
You are in soul suching limbo again, and I know first hand that is the worst place in the world to be.
I have always believed you had a good chance at recon if you could ever get to a place where you let her go.
Hi Gordie,
Ditto on what Bttrfly stated above...
Regarding this-
"Another note: w has recently been wearing her ring again. I still do not wear my ring. We have not spoken of this. If asked, what do I say? I don’t feel like putting it on again because I don’t feel she has fully recommitted to the M. I feel like this is currently a M of convenience for her. It currently serves her purposes. "
How about ---"I don't feel like putting it on again, because I don't know if I've recommitted to the marriage." That's taking ownership of your thoughts and feelings regardless of her behavior. It might sting to say because deep down you want the marriage, but it's you leading the way for yourself.
As always, rooting for you.
My own opinion is to answer about the ring as briefly as possible with no openings for bargaining.
"If" she asks which she may not, you could answer:
- I'm not comfortable with that yet
- I'm not ready
- We still have a ways to go
If you get to where there could be bargaining then you could be put on the defensive.
And yes - there's a long way to go before you could be both recommitted to the marriage. You'll need to know that she's not just making sure that her backup plan is secured which (IMO) is where she's at right now.
Don't be disappointed if she doesn't ask though. The innate selfishness she has displayed means that she has difficulty in seeing beyond the end of her nose - again - IMO
Cali,
Your words have been haunting me. I think unconsciously I have been punishing w. Nothing overt or aggressive but yes, a subtle jab here and there or a cold shoulder, I’m ashamed to admit that. No, that’s not acting like a man only a fool would leave. Maybe now I’m pushing her away?
Butterfly,
You are never too harsh. You keep me on track. Please keep reminding me to GAL. It was the perfect reminder for this weekend. I made sure to carve out some time for myself to go do some things by myself for my own enjoyment and enrichment. I got so carried away in one of my hobbies, I wound up staying up until 2am and I can’t remember the last time I did that. And then I got the best sleep I’ve had in a long time. Keep reminding me to do this—for my own sanity.
LH,
I totally agree with you. I want to see remorse. But that needs to come from inside of her and right now, it’s not forthcoming. When you say I have to let her go what do you mean by that? And why so hopeful re my situation?
Pax and Andrew,
Thanks. Those are the words I’ve been searching for. I like: I’m just not comfortable doing that right now.
***
Journaling:
W has been getting upset with me about more little things. As MWD says, I should see this as a positive. At least she cares.
So one thing w got upset about is that she says I have been ignoring her and not paying attention to her. This is her primary love language. She wants attention, my undivided attention when she wants it no matter what I may be doing at that moment.
W has also started to acknowledge some of the ways she contributed to the breakdown of the M. She had feelings that she didn’t communicate, she wanted things to be different but didn’t act accordingly.
She also did one of the signs on my list. She actually asked me a question about me and one of my interests. This is something of no interest to her but she actually asked me about it and listened to me.
So Easter Sunday and w joins the family at church. Some old friends say hello and w is friendly. We spend a lot of time together cooking and cleaning and enjoying ourselves. We enjoy our Easter dinner together and w says “it’s so nice to be together as a family.”
May you all be Blessed.
Gordie, Glad you had a good day. These holiday's are especially important for our kids. I'm happy that you all were able to spend it together.
I agree on the GAL activities. It is easy to get lost in time and stay out too late.
Have a great week.
When you say I have to let her go what do you mean by that? And why so hopeful re my situation?
What I mean is let her go in move on with your life. She has never had to think for one iota what life would be like w/o you.
I always had the impression your W was a "grass is greener" person and once she had time and space would realize that it is not.
how do you get to that point where the past is the past? Isn’t that sweeping it under the rug? I clearly still am angry and agitated about all that had passed.
That's the million dollar question and I will be honest I am not the person to answer this one as I still struggle with this. Sure time heals all but the impact all this has had still leaves a scar. I think the trick is to accept what has happened really happened. The hurdle is this is one sided, you must deal with this without much help from her. Allow yourself to have those moments of anger and be done with it, understand this will cycle and come back but in much smaller and easier to handle waves ... do not expect (you know what we say about expectations) for your spouse to hold your hand with this ... remember they have a full bowl of delicious MLC gruel to eat for themselves.
Your words have been haunting me. I think unconsciously I have been punishing w. Nothing overt or aggressive but yes, a subtle jab here and there or a cold shoulder, I’m ashamed to admit that. No, that’s not acting like a man only a fool would leave. Maybe now I’m pushing her away?
I know I did similar, we were together for about a year and the big thing that changed was I went from 100 to zero in the sex department, I really did not pursue her nor it ... partly because of the STD she contracted but mostly because of the damage the betrayal caused. Truth is looking back she was not showing me the certain signs I was looking for, not jumping through the predetermined hurdles I had tactfully set up for her ... see where this is going? Expectations .... In my head there was a gauntlet of things she needed to do to prove her love and make up for all the damage she had done and there was no way I was letting her out of the dog house till I was satisfied. Ask yourself .... is the punishment more important than your need for it.
Gordie, you just may not be ready to forgive her and thats acceptable, but until you are ready focus less on how she can make it up to you and more on how you can arrive to a place of allowing her to. In time maybe she will do this but she has some work to do and is currently still not wanting to be judged, she is trying this married thing on and trying to see how it fits .... just like that ring she is wearing, its familiar but still strange after all this has happened. My advice ... if you want to be married conduct yourself as such, are you not wearing the ring as a form of punishment or you are not sure? Its the push pull dance and at best its Passive/Aggressive ... I know because I danced that dance too .... in some ways I still do but I notice it so much faster now.
Keep working and looking inward you have come a long way, and there is still more to go.
Sorry Gordie.....not trying to highjack your thread, but what Caliguy said to you regarding thoughts you have been having, really resonated with me and made me think.
So, thanks Caliguy
cali: That's the million dollar question and I will be honest I am not the person to answer this one as I still struggle with this. Sure time heals all but the impact all this has had still leaves a scar. I think the trick is to accept what has happened really happened.
G: yes. I think that’s why not addressing it is hurting me right now. She really did all those things. It was real.
Cali: The hurdle is this is one sided, you must deal with this without much help from her. Allow yourself to have those moments of anger and be done with it, understand this will cycle and come back but in much smaller and easier to handle waves ... do not expect (you know what we say about expectations) for your spouse to hold your hand with this ... remember they have a full bowl of delicious MLC gruel to eat for themselves.
G: right again. I want us to talk through things and for her participation in helping me to heal and recover. But right now, she can’t do that and my hope and expectation that she will or should is only hurting me.
Cali: I did similar, we were together for about a year and the big thing that changed was I went from 100 to zero in the sex department, I really did not pursue her nor it ... partly because of the STD she contracted but mostly because of the damage the betrayal caused.
G: I have been wanting sex but not pursuing it because our current ground rules are we aren’t ready to sleep together or have sex yet. I do wonder when will be the right time to bring that up again. I do fear she has lost sexual attraction to me and she has never been the initiator so have no idea how that aspect of our R gets rebuilt. I’ve been focusing on very small, non sexual touches and mirroring what she is comfortable offering me. But they are scraps. At least I don’t have cooties anymore.
Cali: Truth is looking back she was not showing me the certain signs I was looking for, not jumping through the predetermined hurdles I had tactfully set up for her ... see where this is going? Expectations .... In my head there was a gauntlet of things she needed to do to prove her love and make up for all the damage she had done and there was no way I was letting her out of the dog house till I was satisfied.
G: so I think that’s where I was in February but that wasn’t helping me. But I don’t know where I am now. Maybe there are days when I am still there. Other days, I have my own temptations to sweep things under the rug and pretend nothing happened.
cali: ask yourself .... is the punishment more important than your need for it.
Gordie, you just may not be ready to forgive her and thats acceptable, but until you are ready focus less on how she can make it up to you and more on how you can arrive to a place of allowing her to. In time maybe she will do this but she has some work to do and is currently still not wanting to be judged,
G: absolutely. How can I allow her to a place where forgiveness is freely given and received with no expectations? And she certainly does not want to be judged. It’s making it really hard for her to reconnect to kids and friends.
Cali: she is trying this married thing on and trying to see how it fits .... just like that ring she is wearing, its familiar but still strange after all this has happened. My advice ... if you want to be married conduct yourself as such, are you not wearing the ring as a form of punishment or you are not sure? Its the push pull dance and at best its Passive/Aggressive ... I know because I danced that dance too .... in some ways I still do but I notice it so much faster now.
G: wow. If I want to be married, act like it? Put that ring back on? Is my discomfort with putting it back on a form of punishment? Not consciously but maybe unconsciously. For me, I think one of my hurdles is sex. If she’s not willing to sleep with me and have sex with me, then isn’t this just a big, fake marriage and why signify that with a ring?
Cali: Keep working and looking inward you have come a long way, and there is still more to go.
G: thanks brother for taking the time to be so insightful and pushing me along. Wow. Lots to chew on.
Journaling:
So cali’s words have been haunting me.
I’ve been asking myself if I really want this to work? I’ve been asking myself do I still love this woman? Do I still want to spend the rest of my life with her, not the woman she was but the woman she is now? And if so, am I trying to punish her and push her away?
And in hindsight, I’ve been wanting her show her remorse in the way I expected. But she did so in the way I didn’t expect. On that night in December when I just let out all my anger and rage and pushed her away (emotionally not physically) and wouldn’t let her touch me, it was then that she apologized and curled up in a ball on the floor sobbing. And after that, it was when she dropped OM2 and the D.
But it hasn’t been enough for me. I want her to be more sorry. I’ve been avoiding her touch.
Well, I think I need to change. I put the ring back on. I feel like I need to recommit myself to this M. I’ve got to slowly open myself up more to her or I’m going to lose this second chance that I have. Yes, keep going slowly and with full knowledge I may get burned again, badly. But it’s a risk I’m willing to take.
Gordie,
my most humble opinion; noticed your brief of the time when bomb dropped, it was back in 2016, I'm very sorry but sincerely want you to be reminded, I don't think she is ready in stepping out from her crisis... I'm sorry, but this truly requires great deal of patience and sometimes they move forward so slowly, there is a chinese slang 'one step forward and two steps backward...' I don't think they are playing games, it's just there are too much problem/feelings deeply buried inside of their minds and hearts, they just don't have the abilities to have them all solved at the moment. They need time...
I have no intention to discourage you by saying those, instead, I want you to be encourage, don't lose heart and maybe try to focus more on yourself and your own life. so sorry I forgot by it was by whom -> love your midlife spouse but with distance (HB maybe ?)
Hi Gordie
I agree with Babe on this. Not sure enough time has passed. You know it best because you are living it. I would hate for her to just say Opps I made a mistake, lest's not talk about BD, OM1 or OM2,let's take it from where we left off. Then months down the road BD2 because she wasn't complete.
So many sitches here experience that short phase of what seems to be an effort from the MLCr and it turns out to be just them buying time. I know we all want our MLCr to be the one that makes it through, says and does all what we want to hear. Not sure that miracle exists without time. Follow your gut. That is one thing I learned from this site. We all had that gut feeling and it was right.
Take your time. You are giving her that, you showed that you will wait for her, so expect nothing less from her as you deserve the best.
Irish
I'm right there with you Gordie, asking all the same questions. I too wonder why I still love her. I too wonder if I am just expecting what I think she should say instead of accepting that her way might be different. I think Babe and Irish might be right, and it kills me to admit that as that advice applies to me too.
My W isn't wearing a ring and I struggled with wanting to keep wearing mine because I am married and want to. I stopped because it turned out being a constant reminder of where I was in my marriage. I didn't stop wearing it to punish her or teach her any lessons, I stopped wearing it so that I could try and detach without the constant reminder. Not that I'm having luck detaching, but at least that isn't part of it. I know I'll put it back on one day when I'm ready.
Sorry, didn't mean to talk about myself in your thread, but I really sympathize with your situation because I think we feel very similarly in regards to the status of our marriages. I'm riding this thing out with you...where ever that ends up leading.
Babe, Irish, SJohn6,
Thank you. I’m obviously struggling in my current stage because I don’t know where I am and wanting to do the right thing. And yes, reading these boards for two years, I am well aware of the many false reconciliations only to be hit with another BD and another OM.
So what’s the right thing to do when she is obviously trying in her own way to act M again? Latest developments: unsolicited, she gave me her phone password and she has started to talk more about the future as if we will remain M for the long haul.
How am I supposed to react to these things? I feel if I continue to keep her at a distance, it’s not the right thing.
I mirro her. She said ILY for the first time in many months and I said ILY too. She hugs me and I hug her back.
Is this when I initiate a R talk? Suggest counseling?
Gordie, I found this, you might be interesting, the thread was posted by OnHoldAZ so long years ago
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1426753&page=1
Gordie - I don't know that I have much in the way of good advice but that's rarely stopped me before.
I remember what Jack wrote in one of the "sticky" threads here. He said that things don't end with a revelation, but with a whisper of doubt.
There's a few different narratives that we could look at. The first one, which both of us bought earlier on is that this is a MLC and is a process. job says it a whole lot better than I ever could, but in essence the person in crisis has to face their demons and purge themselves to heal. If she swings by she can perhaps give an opinion that is grounded on a whole lot more experience but I would think she would say that your wife hasn't dealt with her issues and may still be in replay.
The second one which is a tougher stand is that the person who cheated needs (again) to take full accountability for their actions and be willing to walk over hot coals to make it right. Part of this is that the person did their actions because at their core they are a selfish person and they need to unlearn that which is tough and rare.
Finally there's the whole "let's sweep this under the rug and never talk about it again" approach which I think many unfaithful spouses would prefer and is what most people do. Thinking about that more broadly, let's say that one of your kids did something stupid - if they expressed basic remorse and promised not to do it again you and I as parents would probably accept that. Because the consequences are out of proportion to the act there is less incentive for them to not do it again.
One other key thing here is to acknowledge your own hurt and how you are dealing with it. I hope you are continuing to get professional help along with perhaps support from friends and family. The way things are going right now, your W is not on a path to "make it up to you". That can mean that your own wounds if left buried will fester and poison you.
My own - barstool opinion - is that people don't fundamentally change who they are. We were willing to accept our spouses and the masks that they perhaps wore for many many years. We have sunk costs. But if someone behaved poorly and selfishly before, they will again unless they do the hard work to change who they are. This requires self-reflection usually aided by professional help. Suggesting that though may well backfire.
For me, I can't see my ex ever doing what would be necessary for me to trust her again. The last I saw of her, she is a very angry and selfish woman who feels that she is hard done by by the world. Thinking back over the last 30 years (it will have been 30 this fall), that is indeed who she is. For you, it seems different but it may be that your W has just put on the mask she was wearing before.
We can't force change on them. They have to want to change themselves and we have to choose if we accept the person they are.
Don't know if this helped. We're all amateurs here.
@TeamGordie
Gordie,
Your w isn't ready to return to the real world. She's in replay and will be for quite some time. She's not dealt w/her issues and the more she focuses on you and your actions, the less time she has to deal w/her issues.
MLC takes a lot of time. A couple of years is nothing when it comes to looking at the entire process and how much time it takes for them to face their issues/demons and find a way to accept the things that they can't change and heal. Her facing of demons/issues has been bubbling under the surface for many, many years and it didn't just spew out of the pot in 2016.
The only way that you are going to get thru this is to back off, leave her alone and keep your expectations at zero. You are expecting her to react one way and she's reacting in a different way when it comes to things. Try to remember that the less pressure you put on her, the more time she has to face those issues/demons. Putting pressure on her is going to: 1) prolong her journey and 2) push her further away from you.
Dig deeper for patience, and I do mean dig deeper for patience. Keep the focus on you and your family and find things to occupy your mind, body and soul. You didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her. There is an old saying I use from time to time and I want to post it to you today "a watched pot never boils". Stop looking for signs that she's coming out of her crisis...she's got a ways to go.
Gordie...take care of you and allow the man upstairs to take care of her.
Oh Gordie,
I fully respect you trying to the "right" thing. But mirroring her I think is only doing what you feel you are supposed to do.
Gordie, what will make you feel good? You mirroring her actions is attachment. How about you lead with what feels good and right to you?
Like JOb said, you need to take care of you. I think you spend so much time trying to do what you feel you are supposed to do, and in that you become wholly attached and lose yourself.
Take this as a time to find and nurture Gordie. Feed your soul.
Wow, Gordie. I understand why you are conflicted. I’m glad others are chiming in with good advice because I would feel like you do. Giving you the phone password and saying ILY are things that would begin to break down my walls too.
When I had an unexpectedly good conversation with my wife recently I accepted it too easy and she slid backwards. I now see it as a good sign that when she has moments of clarity, it is our marriage and family that seem important to her. Having said that, it is too hard on me emotionally to let my guard down every time she has a moment of clarity. I think that if you let your guard down too early, it will be much harder to get back to where you are now. Where you are in this is just as important as where she is. Don’t forget to consider yourself in this thing.
I understand not wanting to push her away when it seems she is drawing nearer. I also understand wanting to make sure you aren’t expecting a specific behavior if it might actually look a little different coming from your W. The thing is, you are still trying to bend yourself backwards to try and accept her. I think it is her that needs to do that for you. When I was too quick to accept the convo with my W, I realized in retrospect that she said things in that convo that were signs she wasn’t ready and I overlooked them because of the things she said that I did want to hear. Having said that, although your W is showing you signs that you like, is there anything you might be overlooking because of that?
All this thinking/anylizing is going to drive us crazy. Try to take a break from it if you can. She is making moves in the right direction, and if you let her, she might keep moving in that direction. That doesn’t mean you should be cold to her. You love your W or you wouldn’t still be here. She knows that. So, accept her positive signs as just that...positive signs. Not signs of her being out of the woods, just signs that she is moving in that direction.
Just a quick visit to wish you my best.
There is no simple answer to your last question but
To me hthe fact you are asking could mean you are too attached to saving your M, and fear doing the wrong thing. There is no right thing or wrong thing. OK there are but don't put so much pressure on yourself.
A piece of good advice is to ask yourself regularly what do you want to do. Apply this to simple and more important decisions. Remove the pressure of determining what is best to improve your M.
Got to go.
Best wishes. I keep you in my thoughts
Hi Gordie
she talks about the future? Is she sweeping her MLC under the rug. Does she talk about what happened and why? If you question her does she huff and puff and avoid answering.
How do you honestly feel about what she did? Could you just accept it and move forward? Without the answers you need.
Are you ready to trust her or will you have many doubts if she goes out alone or with friends? Will you give her the 3rd degree when she gets back home? How will she react to that?
You see, she needs to be ready to get that from you. Trust needs to be rebuilt. Giving you her phone password may only mean that. She could be using email to communicate.
Therapy. of course but she needs individual therapy before couple therapy. That alone is time. So she can figure it all out.
I'd hate for you both to play happy home and MLC pokes its ugly head out again.
at some point, someday,
you have to choose to go "from this day forward", like the vows.
I always thought those words were crucial. Plus, no marriage lasts that doesn't include a boatload of forgiveness
given and asked for.
Not saying you are there yet, by any means.
But if there's no way you can ever imagine reconciling, I mean, no offense,
then why are you here?
I'm asking. YOU have to know what your ideal outcome would be, and then figure out how you'll deal with your other, possibly more realistic options.
But you need to imagine a scenario in which you could work things through ----- or just decide NO WAY and end any thoughts of it. As in, "the end."
Hang in there.
Hey Gordie. Checking in on you. How are things? Hope your day is going well.
I posted a long reply to all of you and it got lost. Dang.
Short version:
I am spending more time on GAL. I have rekindled an old passion that does not involve w or kids.
W got rid of her MLC pet that none of us liked.
W and I had a date 3. W kissed me on theips. Not open mouthed, but first kiss on the lips in a very long time.
Good days are outnumbering the bad days.
We still avoid all R talks. W is wanting to spend more time with me and the kids, but still values her alone time.
Stay strong and patient. One day at a time. Let go and let God.
Gordie - nice to hear from you. You sound good.
In some ways your situation sounds like I would imagine mine to have gone if my ex had second thoughts. She was never one to deal with difficult issues, especially ones that made her feel bad.
I would think that in much of the non-DB world where we have given a lot of thought to what a "proper" reconciliation would look like that things do get "swept under the rug".
If you are OK with that and the possibility that there may be unresolved issues that may rear their head in the future then things may work out.
We don't get the futures we dream of. I think that the trick is to live in the present we have.
Hand steady on the tiller, eyes on the horizon - #TeamGordie
Gordie,
It appears that you and Gerda have been experiencing postings being dropped. I've sent a message to Virginia to see if she knows what is going on.
Once Cadet and/or I hear from Virginia, I'll come back around and delete the "dropped postings of yours.
Gordie,
I'm so glad to hear about your new GAL activity. GAL is so important, even during and after reconciliation.
In terms of R talk, are there things you think you need to say, or things you think you need to hear?
If it's the latter, I suggest you focus more on actions and less on words.
Words might come later, but as long as the actions are heading in the right direction, I wouldn't despair. If her actions show that she is making the changes you need--not just returning to the old M, but doing the things you want and need for a healthy new M--then she's not sweeping things under the rug.
I am on an Apple product. If I am in private browsing, I cannot post. Maybe this is the problem for others too?
Andrew and Rose,
I keep trying to reply but keep getting zapped.
This is so frustrating. I have so many posts zapped.
Maybe I only get one line?
Gordie I am posting one from a MacBook Pro not using private browsing to test your theory, I will follow up with one right after with private browsing to see if it makes a difference.
This one is with private browsing turned on. Will it appear?
Have patience my brother. They will fix this soon and you will be able to fill us in. Maybe this is God's way for you to turn and vent/journal to Him instead of to us. Just a thought.
Hoping and Praying that all is well in your world.
Gordie,
If you will send me one of your postings that is disappearing, I will try to post it as a test. I'll come back later this evening to see if you did send me a "notification" with a posting for me to try.
Gordie,
Hit the notify button and send me a posting. I'll attempt to post it for you.
Gordie,
Have you tried a different browser than the one you normally use? I have found in the past when one doesn't work another might.
as a note, I am using firefox right now. I have also at times deleted a browser and re download and install it if I have lots of issues.
I use 3 search engines..
Goggle, chrome and bing. Often i find different results. When one of them have an issue, i switch..
Something you might want to try Gordie..
Gordie,
I saw this in doodlers post in Surviving Big D where he had blank posts last week and what he found was:
The issue with the blank messages is the apostrophes and quotes in Word (maybe other characters as well). Even when you save the word document to text, it preserves the special characters for apostrophes and quotes.
I copy and pasted my Word document into Notepad++ and changed the encoding to UTF-8 and you can see, and correct, all of the special characters.
Gordie - thinking about ya .. hope you are well xoxo
Miss hearing from you Gord, I hope the thread issue get resolved soon. Prayers at you.
Gordie:
I so want to hear what is going on with you and your frustrating post attempts. I just did one of my own, from my normal computer and normal browser and it seems to have posted (unless of course I'm the only one who can see it).
I hope that you are in a place that is working for you, regardless of what anyone else may think about it.