Hello everyone. I suspect many on here do not know me because there are so many newbies and I've been gone a while. I've been gone too long actually. (Had a hard time remembering my username...password...haha!)
I got the bomb drop in October of 2010. I first came here in January 2011 (I think.) I lurked a while before finally posting. My sitch was pretty ugly and I was in a bad place for a very long time. I won't go into details. You can look up my old posts if you want to. (I would post links, but to be honest, I can't remember how to do it.)
I don't even really know why I'm back. Just wanted to give an update I guess.
You know, I've always had these fantasies about what I would say and how I would act if XW ever tried to be nice and have a conversation with me. I've played it over and over in my head so many times. Well, a couple of weeks ago, I had the chance. Although, it didn't go the way that I had played it out in my head. I have not spoken or even seen XW in close to three years. My son plays in a band and a couple of weeks ago, I went to his show and XW went as well. Not sure if this is normal MLC stuff, but she seemed a little like her old self again. I'm standing there having a drink, and talking to one of my sons. Right out of the blue, she addresses me by name and asks me a question about one of our sons. It was a yes or no question and that's what I gave her for an answer....one word. Later, she interrupted a conversation I was having with my son...TWICE. I was polite but probably came off a little cold. She even made it a point to tell me goodbye. ?????
I'll admit, the whole thing kind of threw me for a loop. My oldest son says that she just wants polite conversation and to be civil. She wants what her sister has with one of her ex husbands. I'll admit that being polite is probably the best, but what gives her the right to just come up and talk to me? What makes her think that I would want to talk to her? I want no friendship. Friends don't do what she did. I could care less if I ever see her again. After cheating on me, telling lies, turning her family against me, turning my life upside down, leaving me in financial ruin....I'm supposed to be polite and friendly just because that is what she wants? I think next time, I may just walk away. I'll admit, I was polite but...it really bugged me a lot. I'd love to hear from some of the vets on this. (Am I considered a vet now? Haha.)
As for me, I've done a lot of work on myself (although it took a long time to get going.) I have a lady friend that I do things with once or twice a week. Nothing romantic...I've decided that I don't want a relationship...not even with her even though she is pretty cool. She knows it too. I actually enjoy being single. Maybe I'll fall in love some day, but if it never happens, I'm cool with it. Being single has given me lots of time to enjoy things that I never could enjoy before. I've become passionate about a few things and a few beliefs. I love who I've become. I've always had a love for birds and sea life. Now I have time to actually enjoy them. I've picked up photography as a hobby and try to get out a couple of times a month to take some shots. I have a great job that I enjoy and am finally making enough money to pay bills. I even donate to a few animal organizations and homeless organizations when I can.
I've received a few job offers to return to the radio. (I was a disc jockey for 23 years.) Many would kill for that chance, but you know what? I turned them down because I like my life JUST. THE. WAY. IT. IS.
9 months ago, I had a heart attack and had a major blockage in the "widow maker" artery. They gave me a stent and diagnosed me with Diabetes. I take a boat load (or poop load...not sure which is more) of medications and take Insulin shots every day. It [censored], but I'm alive. Doctors said I was very lucky.
I've quit smoking and have joined a gym. I try to work out at least three days a week.
Overall, I'm good. I'm VERY good. I'm enjoying my SINGLE LIFE. For the newbies, keep going. It get's better. And, keep posting. There are many on this board that have been right where you are and have made it to the other side. This board got me through some very dark times. I'm finally where I want to be...finally where I never thought I'd get. Keep going and keep looking up. Maybe you'll see an eagle.
Tad
Hey Tad!!!!
I’m so happy to read about your update and new life. I can tell by the tone that you’re much more happier than I’ve “seen” you in a looong time. What a wonderful hobby you’ve picked up that gets you out of the house exploring the world out there. It looks like you’ve really pushed yourself out of your comfort zone with this lady friend even if it is strictly platonic. Remember the saying around here ‘baby steps’—love just may strike you from nowhere like a thunderbolt!
Keep going, buddy. You’ve come so far in your journey of healing and discovering happiness once again.
Thanks Wonka!
You were a big part of my journey. So many on this board were. It was a very painful road, but well worth it. My biggest regret is the fact that I was "stuck" for so long. There were many times that I would come to this board because I had no place to go and I'd wonder how in the world I was going to go on without her. Looking back, it seems like a different lifetime...a different lifetime that was being lived by someone else. That person is no longer who I am today. THIS person is a much stronger person. Take care!
Tad
Tad,
I am so glad that you came back to give us an update. You've come a long way and I am so proud of all that you've accomplished. Keep up the good work!
Here is the link to your previous thread. If you want me to merge them, I will be happy to do so.
I Almost Died
Keep going and keep looking up. Maybe you'll see an eagle.
Tad
Hi Tad and welcome back! I'm so happy for you, that you've found your way and have re-built a wonderful life for yourself. Well done!!!
Posting because last night I happened to look up on my way to the car and saw a bald eagle flying towards me. Completely unexpected and very, very cool. In that moment I knew I'd be ok. Of course this morning I forgot about that until I read your post. Thank you! xoxoxoxo Stay in touch!
Thank you job and bttrfly. I appreciate the responses. Life really is good now. Again, I enjoy my freedom. I do sometimes wonder what it would have been like if my marriage would have been saved, but....you don't have to save your marriage to be considered a success.
Job, I'd like to keep the threads separate unless you think they should be merged.
Tad
Holy cow!! Well said!!
It was my reaction the minute i saw your name.
I am very happy to see how your interaction with ex-w went. I would be lying if i would say that i wasn't worried about it. Way to go Tad!!
My lunch is over but i will definitely be a follower of yours!
Welcome back !!
Hi Tad, I'm so glad to read that you're doing well and there are still a number of folks knocking around here who know you!
Must have felt weird interacting with your XW as you describe. I haven't seen my XH in a few years and I have no idea how well I would cope seeing him. Personally, I think civil and polite is the way to go - partly because you have kids together - partly because anything other than that may seem reactive and attached (and I wouldn't want to give the satisfaction of that) and partly because in time we need to release things and truly move on - for ourselves..
Pleased you still have a nice friendship with your lady friend and are looking after your health and enjoying new activities. Good for you!
I hope you'll drop in from time to time as I'm sure you have much to offer others too.
Best wishes to you :-)
Thanks for responding exquisitetobe and Sotto.
It was weird seeing the XW. The only really upsetting part was the fact that she was nice and cordial like nothing even happened. It bugged me for a few days, but I'm over it. I want nothing to do with her. Period.
I hope you'll drop in from time to time as I'm sure you have much to offer others too.
Hahaha! I'm not so sure about that. Looking back, I think I did a lot of things wrong.
Tad
Tad,
You may have done a lot of things wrong...but you learned from those mistakes and have grown by leaps and bounds. Posters can learn a lot from your experiences...never doubt that. Each person has something to offer and you just never know how many you may help.
I suppose you are right job. It still bugs me a little to see so many newbies. Reading some of their sitches puts me right back there. It's sad. I do miss seeing some of the others that were around when I got on here.
I will check in from time to time and offer something when I can. God knows that I got a lot of help from others...
Tad
Thank you Job!
Just checking in....
My son played another show a few nights ago. Someone must have said something to XW because THIS time, she avoided me. Last time, she went out of her way to talk to me. She's just weird.
I still feel down every now and then, but most of the time I'm good. Had an episode about a week ago. I was just feeling very alone. With the exception of my boys and lady friend, I really have nobody. Most of the time, I'm good, but sometimes it just really hits me.
I've joined a gym and try to work out 4 days a week. I haven't lost too much weight though and the doctor says it is because of the Insulin that I take. (Thanks Diabetes.)
In about three weeks, I'll be celebrating the one year anniversary of my heart attack. Not really anything to celebrate but....that also means that I've gone ONE YEAR WITHOUT A CIGARETTE!!! Go me!
Anyways just wanted to check in.
Newbies - keep going. It gets better. It just takes time.
Tad
Tad! Congrats on the one year! xoxoxo that's a huge deal!
Thank you bttrfly and Job.
One day at a time!
Hey folks. Just dropped by to say hi.
Most on here don't know me anymore because they have moved on. That is a good thing I guess. I too no longer come to this site, mostly because, there is nothing new.
Next week will be the 8 year anniversary since bomb drop. I try to forget the date, but it happened on 10/10/10. Haha. Kind of hard to forget.
I actually saw XW last week at one of my son's shows. She seemed to watch me most of the night. Not sure why. Maybe because I was standing next to and talking to a young, tall, dark brunette. She wasn't a date, but just a friend of my son's that I have known for a few years.
As for my lady friend at work, we are just friends and that's all it will ever be. I'm good with that. I'm really not looking for a relationship.
Before I had my heart attack and was diagnosed with Diabetes, I had lost a lot of weight. Because of the weight loss, a lot of my dental work had fallen out. (I had a bunch done years ago due to an injury.) Well, I've been seeing the dentist and next week.....I get dentures. Not hip on getting dentures, but it will be nice to smile again and not worry about my teeth. It does add to my "old" feeling though. I've been feeling old for an awful long time. I turn 51 later this month, but feel much older.
Anyways, just wanted to say hi. Overall, I'm happy.
Tad
What a surprise! I'm glad you came back to visit.
Tad, you are not old. When you have a weight loss, there are bound to be differences. There are plenty of people in the world wearing dentures for many reasons. I'd rather see a person w/dentures then to see people talk/smile and no teeth present. You'll feel much better once you get the new ones.
BTW, how is the kitty doing?
Thanks Job.
Kitty is doing fine. He seems to be feeling better and his "voice" is coming back. He likes to come in and eat and hang out, but still does not stay the night. He comes to visit nearly every night and then goes back out a few hours later. I think he just likes to know that I'm here.
He can stay if he decides to use the litter box, but at this time, he chooses to leave when ready.
Tad
Hello Tad!
Give us an update on your Alaska vacantion.. is it a go?
Where? How long? What are the places you look forward to see?
When?
A vacation seem needed for you. I know how hard you work. You are very hard and demanding on yourself at times.
Hey, if Alaska is a no go, how about Ontario, Canada?
Hey there.
As of right now, Alaska is still on. It will depend on if I can swing it financially. The plan is to go August or September of 2019. Not sure where in Alaska I'm going yet. Been doing some research and it will most likely be Anchorage, Juneau or Haines. I'm going for the Bald Eagles and maybe the Humpback Whales. Wherever I can get some great pictures is where I'll be going. Going strictly for photography. However, I'm afraid if I go, I may not want to come back!
Tad
Hey everyone.
It's been a little over 8 years since bomb drop and a little over 7 years since divorce was final.
I had dinner with S26 tonight. At one point, the subject of XW came up. He says: "She is absolutely dumbfounded and just can't understand why you won't be friends with her."
"ABSOLUTELY DUMBFOUNDED"
"CAN'T UNDERSTAND"
Serious question: IS SHE INSANE?
Peace!
Tad
Serious question: IS SHE INSANE?
The view from Planet Tad is probably not cluttered by unicorns and rainbows.
Tad,
She's a lost soul and can't understand why you won't be friends. She's still living in La La Land and thinks that what she did shouldn't have hurt you or anyone else in the family. Friends do not do what our former spouses did to us. People who are of a rational mind, would know that if you created such a mess, you will not want to be friends w/them. You can forgive them, but you won't forget the really bad behavior.
Let those comments roll off your back...she's just out there.
Thanks Andrew and Job.
Everyone seems to get it EXCEPT her. That should probably tell me something.
I guess after EIGHT YEARS, I was kind of hoping that maybe she had jumped from the crazy train. Maybe she'll never wake up. Sad...
Tad
Their views on the whole thing is different then ours.
They do not see anything wrong with their actions.
They can' t comprehend what we ( the lbs ) have been put through.
In an instant that they do, the guilt is so strong that they must twist the truth to justify themself instead of facing it.
I feel the same way as you. I can' t be friend with my ex.
I do not trust him. I feel like he is setting me up for another bomb. Most time, he is.
There is RIGHT AND WRONG in my world / appropriate and inappropriate also.
I am not his life partner, nor his friend, nor his mother.
I am not friends with the kind of person he has become.
Stay true to yourself Tad. You are a good man. Loyal, honest, caring, hard working, devoted individual.
You should not stress over what she thinks.. Imo, she messed up the day she walked away from you.
Thank you exquisitobe.
I agree. They do not think like we do. I was just hoping that maybe...just maybe...she was done with being crazy.
Even my sons understand why I can't be friends. I told her
YEARS AGO that there will never be a friendship as long as she is with OM.
I've often wondered if she has felt any guilt. Sometimes, I doubt it.
I think some of it may have to do with the fact that my older brother is still friends with his XW and sees her quite often. Also, XW's sister is also friendly with both of her XH's. Of course situations are different, but they are still friendly.
"Appearance" has always been important to XW as well and I'm sure that she would like it to "appear" that we are still on speaking terms.
I've read that some in MLC eventually wake up and some don't. I am beginning to think that XW will be one that doesn't. Sad.
Thank you for the very nice words too!
Tad
I've read that some in MLC eventually wake up and some don't. I am beginning to think that XW will be one that doesn't. Sad.
I personally think that there are two parts to this.
The first is perhaps "waking up" / realizing that they made a mistake / realizing the damage that they caused.
The second, more important part is taking responsibility for that and having the courage to attempt to make amends.
Perhaps in the dark of the night they may experience the first. We like to think so. I do think though that most who walk that path don't have the strength of character to do the second and so are lost to us. I certainly believe this to be the case with my own ex.
Thanks Andrew. My XW was never one to admit when she was wrong. She has always been that way. So, I'm pretty sure that she'll never admit it. It just makes no sense to me wanting to be friends....
"I joined an internet dating site behind Tad's back."
"I cheated on Tad."
"I ran a wrecking ball through Tad's family/life."
"I completely rewrote history with Tad."
"I told so many lies about Tad."
"I talked so bad about Tad to my family, my friends and our mutual friends."
"I dumped all of our debt onto Tad."
"I even told Tad that marrying him was the worst mistake of my life."
"I blamed all of my unhappiness on Tad."
"I just don't understand why Tad won't be friends with me...."
Absolutely NUTS.
Tad
Lol.. yes it is..
I could have written all of it..
why don' t we want them? Why won' t we fight for them?
In the now, all of it is ironic.. back then, it was traumatic..
Absolutely nuts it is..
Haha!
Yep!
Sometimes, I look back and have a hard time believing all of the garbage that she spewed. It really hurt at the time, but now, knowing that none of it was even true, it is almost comical. I mean, the number one reason she did this was "you never took me to the right grocery store." Her words.
Good stuff.
Hahaha!
I'll see her tonight at my son's concert. Really hope she doesn't try to talk to me.
She's still on the crazy train. I don't travel by train.
Tad
Just a quick blurb....
I had breakfast with S26 this morning. The subject of XW came up and S26 says:
"I can't believe the way she talks to OM sometimes. Sometimes he'll say something and she really
SNAPS back at him. She
SNAPS at him for no reason at all."
Does that make me happy?
It shouldn't but.....
IT DOES.BWAHAHAHA!
Maybe things are
NOT so great in paradise?
Tad
Well the honeymoon stage is completely over and the true colors are beginning to show. No, things are not great in the land of fantasy paradise. Very, very seldom is it as great as we think it is.
Your son gave you a bird's eye view of what is going on over there. Be thankful she's not still living under the same roof w/you. MLCers living at home can try the patience of a saint and more.
Enjoy your day!
Thanks Job. What son told me really doesn't surprise me at all. Matter of fact, I was kind of expecting it. The thing that surprised me was the fact that she did it in front of sons. Everything has always been about appearances with her. It surprised me that she let someone witness her "snapiness." I'm sure it is probably even worse when nobody is around. And yes, the honeymoon is most likely over.
Tad
It will be more fun when you learn about one of them cheating on the other. My fingers are crossed for you. As for friendship, I am with you. Why would you want to be friends with someone that did that? It would be like someone being friends with their rapist!!!! Cheating, character assassination, financial ruin... that’s major abuse and would be illegal if done to a business partner.
You can’t betray an enemy though.
Good luck to you.
Thanks JujuB.
Exactly! Why would I want to be friends with someone that did those things to me? Son has told her many times that I want nothing to do with her. She can't understand why. Unbelievable.
Tad
Just pondering...
When all this started, we (spouses) are scrambling to do ANYTHING to convince them to stay.
Now, years later, some of them (mine included) want to be friends, but some of us (me included) want nothing to do with our MLCer.
I'm wondering how this makes them feel.
Thoughts?
Tad
One of my ex-wife's stated priorities during mediation was that she wanted us to "still be friends" - despite running off chasing after OM knowing the hurt that caused and also not having made any effort stay in contact with me - or for that matter her own children.
She reduced that to "be able to be at family events together like weddings" - which TBH I could probably manage now but at the time I couldn't imagine.
Speaking not specifically of MLC - which I have some doubts of as a diagnosis - but about selfish people who cheat - it has been my impression from reading and from the reactions of my ex that they don't want to be a bad person and they want acceptance for what they've done or better yet pretend that they didn't do that.
A cynic would think that part of "wanting to be friends" is a prelude to feeling us out to see if we can be drawn back in.
From what i know about the kind of person ex-h is and the person i am ( what ex-h knows of me, my beliefs, my values), he probably saw me on the shelf waiting for him. All the attempt he has made to be friend with me has backfired and angered him in disbelief that i could be so cold. Afterword, he justifies his betrail and reinforce his relationship to current OW until his unhappiness arise all over again. Then, another attempt occure.
Imo, it is a game pre-lost. By doing this back and forth of secrets, lies and deceit, it shows his lack of morals. He is currently going behind OW' s back and uses OW to "punish" me when i refuse to play.
He has voiced his remorse and regrets to the children for the pain he caused them but not to me.
My feelings, my life, my schedules, my wants and my needs are TOTALLY disregarded.
His image of the " good guy " is where it all lays down.
I was devastated 10 years ago and i feel bless now. Ex-h will never be a loyal, honest devoted husband. I do beleive he was for the most part of our 18 years together but not anymore to all his OWs. He needs admiration. If one does not fuel his ego, he' ll find his supply on the side.
It is repulsive to me. It make me see him with disgust and it make me feel shameful. The honest truth.
How does he feel? In front of me, like he is not good enough ( the tone of his voice, the sad look in his face ) and in front of OW , like he is king and has his [censored] together..
In front of the kids, back and forth between happy, sad, depress.
Thanks AndrewP and Exquisitetobe.
they don't want to be a bad person and they want acceptance for what they've done
I totally agree. Everything has always been about appearances with XW. She wanted everyone to believe that
"we just decided to get a divorce." She didn't want to be perceived as
the bad guy. When all of this was going on, she even asked if I thought she was a
bad person. Like I said, it's all about appearances.
It makes me see him with disgust.
Yep. I get disgusted every time I see XW. It is a shame really. I used to love her more than anything and would do anything for her....Now, she disgusts me. Again, sad.
Tad
Couldn't sleep and had a thought:
Does anyone have any idea what goes through the MLCer's mind when they find out that the LBS wants nothing to do with them? I want nothing to do with XW really and according to son, she was "dumbfounded" that I felt that way. Is wanting to be "friendly" a type of reconnection or is that just for appearance sake? I got bomb drop 8 and a half years ago, so maybe her trip is over? Or maybe it will never end? Just wondering what really happened in that head of hers when she found out that this guy who would do ANYTHING to get her back now wants NOTHING to do with her. Thoughts?
Also, for those looking to GAL, try nature. I can't even put into words the joy that walking in the park or visiting the zoo brings me. It's good for the soul to get out and watch the birds. You can see a lot of truly amazing things if you just stop and take the time to look. I like to take pictures of them and never realized how pretty a bird as simple as a pigeon can be. I've always loved Bald Eagles and Humpback Whales, but since all of the craziness with XW started and I FINALLY worked up enough courage to get out and do things, I have started to realize that I like all nature. It's not just whales and birds. (I also think that the rats that I had helped a little too.) I sometimes think I missed my calling. Maybe I should have got into wildlife and skipped the radio career.
I've kind of become reclusive and don't have a whole lot to do with many people outside of work. Maybe that isn't healthy, but I'm okay with it. And, for the most part, I'm happy.
Anyways, sorry for the ramble.
Day by day peeps. It gets better.
Take the time to look.
Tad
Sandi when she speaks of her own situation as a WW, she mentioned something about this. If memory serves me right, she too was shocked and dumbfounded that her H didn't want her anymore. She was a WW with all that entails and disregarded her H and his viewpoint/feelings as secondary to her own. When he got to the point of saying enough was enough, she genuinely was taken by surprise. To the point of "how on earth could he not want to be with me". It was unimaginable to her!!
Many speak of the WAS expecting the LBS to be sitting right where they left them waiting. That is probably true to some extent, but I doubt it is thought out consciously. It could be an unconscious assumption.
Maybe a part of it is that they do what they do because they HAVE TO not because they chose to. It was necessary in their eyes to find true happiness. Surely that is understandable. How could the LBS not understand that!! Incredible as it may seem, it probably is exactly how your ExW views this.
Whereas I find it healthy to seek understanding, certain parts of M crisis will never be coherent nor understood and we waste our time delving to find that elusive answer.
I am glad you are enjoying your life. Nature is great. Enjoying your own company and not needing others can be a good thing. BUT I read recently that one aspect of being truly happy comes from having interactions with people. There is a YT video that explains the difference between having pleasures and happiness and the main ingredient was to be truly happy interactions with others are required.
Best wishes
Hi Tad
I'm more a subscriber to the "selfish jerk" school than the "MLC" one these days.
I honestly have no clue what's going on in my own ex-wife's mind especially at present but also got the "be friends" thing. My own take is that they don't understand that their actions have consequences. As do our own.
I see over and over here and elsewhere stories where the LBS is expected to continue to do the adulting and is just taken for granted. The lovely lady I am currently dating has that exact thing going on in fact.
With all that said there are consequences. Loss of home and family. Loss of standing in the community. Financial, emotional, health. We see here many of the LBS ending up in a better place than they have been for years as their former partner had been dragging them down and not holding them up.
Will my ex, your ex ever feel remorse for what they did? In my case I have doubts because that would involve her admitting that she was wrong and that she hurt people. Regrets? I fully expect that she has a fair number of them but for what happened to her.
Tad,
In my own situation, it took my xh about 5 1/2 years before he wanted to be friends after he destroyed everything good in the world of "us". I told him that if I didn't accept that horrible behavior from others, I would not accept it from him. He couldn't understand that I wasn't going to sweep everything under the carpet and forget about it. I do think that they don't realize all that they have done and when they reach out and want to be friends w/their former spouses, they do not understand all that took place.
My xh apologized for his behavior throughout our 25 years marriage, but not once has he apologized for his horrible behavior since 1998 onward. To him, it never happened.
As for truly wanting to know what goes through his mind, I wouldn't touch that mind w/a ten foot pole. It's tainted and toxic from years of neglect, booze, etc.
Tad, you are a good guy, don't allow thoughts of her wanting to be friends as anything more than just touching base. You have to remember that the "friend" thing to them is entirely different than being true friends.
I enjoy all of your nature photos. Hope kitty eventually opts to come inside permanently. You are a good father to humans and animals.
Thanks roist, AndrewP and Job.
All wise words.
I am beginning to believe that they have a hard time with us not wanting to be friends because they truly don't understand or realize what they have done. Or, maybe it is the narcissist in them coming out. How can you not be friends with
ME?
You are a good father to humans and animals.
You made me smile Job.
Off to work!
Tad
In my story, ex-h repeatedly told me he loves me.. BUT
just not in that way.. like a sister kind of love.
His last attempt at declaring his love was: " i really do love you, i just did not know if i wanted to live with you anymore".
In the very first year after bomb, i had told ex-h that he wanted everything but me. His gf, our kids, the house, his job etc. EVERYTHING BUT ME. He answered: " NO, i want you to".
It seem like he was telling the truth..lol
But his loyalty to OW is lacking as much as his loyalty to our family lacked back then.
He does not see anything wrong with his actions therefor can NOT comprehend our reaction. I get blame for all repercussion he faces with me, with the kids and even ( sometimes) with his OW..
Oh well....
Life goes on. At bomb, he told me:" there is more to life then this" . I could not beleive we meant so little to him.
Today, the table is reverse. I say:" there is more to life than him" and he can' t beleive i am not begging him to come back to us...
NATURE!!!! fuel for Peace, serenity, beauty, discovery, amazement etc.. i love nature!
We have many things in common. I to am very quiet. I do not socialize much. I keep to myself alot. I only do things with my children or a couple of friends. If there is too many people at once, i get quiet and i observe and listen. I like my life this way. With summer approaching, i am already planning future road trips and hiking spots i would like to go to.
We ( me and the children) have 2 trips on our priority list. One is at a bird sanctuary and the other at a pisciculture.
I will take pictures and post them on fb for you to see. It would be so much fun if i could take you with us as i know you would love those 2 places..
I am looking forward to see your adventure pics of the summer!
Have a good one Tad!
Thank you!
I too would love to take a few trips except.......I'm afraid to fly....very afraid to fly. I have flown before and will fly if I have to, but I prefer to keep my feet on the ground if I can.
I'd love to see your pictures!
Tad
I think a lot of it is image management. Like new potential partners (probably partners that were betrayed by their own spouses ) are gonna ask them about their divorce and anyone with half a brain knows that they will look better if they can answer that they are friendly with their ex. Or give them a line like “well we realized we make great friends but lousy spouses”. It probably saves them face to family and neighbors or peers.
I think another part of it is that they lack empathy and are just so entitled that they can’t even see how what they did was wrong. Plus, they probably lie to themselves. . The things my ex said during and was just so unreasonable and completely inaccurate and crazy. It’s cause they can’t actually face that they did things that bad. To own up to that takes a lot and I don’t think many are capable of that type of self reflection. Or they wouldn’t have done what they did.
The problem is that the way most of them left was abusive. Cheating, betrayal, lies. To act all buddy buddy, normalizes abuse. It normalizes their bad behavior.
When my ex first left, him and his mom thought we were all gonna have family holidays and birthday parties together. I’m so glad, my family talked sense into me. Cause I was thinking these thoughts like “I need to be friends first” and “I need to act as if” I’m order to get him back. God. That was so pathetic. I will never be friends with my ex. He is a bad human being to have done what he did.
Thanks JujuB
Well, my XW married the OM so I would say it isn't so she has an answer for potential partners. I do agree though that my XW most likely lies to herself and also can't see what she did was so wrong.
I will never be friends with my ex. He is a bad human being to have done what he did.
Amen. I'll never be friends with mine either.
Saw in your signature that you have five year old twins. My God. Couldn't imagine going through this mess with little ones. Stay tough.
Tad
Ehhh.....
I was just invited to a baby shower for my S24 and his girlfriend. I told him a few weeks ago that if he didn't invite me, I wouldn't have hurt feelings over it because I thought baby showers were mostly girlie things. He wants me there. XW will be there, XSIL will be there and XMIL will most likely be there.
I don't want to do this.
I know you don't want to go to the shower...but your son made a point of inviting you. Are there going to be other men there besides your son and you? If not, you can always send a gift and have something else planned...but I do think your son would be disappointed if you didn't attend. You could go for a little while and then casually leave.
Thanks Job.
Yes, one or two of my other sons will be there possibly along with a few other guys.
I will most likely go, but I'm going to spend the next month dreading it. It happens on May 4th. I know that there will probably be more events like this in the future and I'll need to be strong and attend them as well, but it won't be easy. Just another side effect of this mess.
I just really wish I didn't have to ever deal with her or her family ever again. The further away I can stay from them, the better. I REALLY HOPE none of them try to talk to me. It won't be good.
Tad
Tad,
Anything can happen in a month. I wouldn't think about it too much. It's just a gathering to celebrate the upcoming birth of a baby. If go, take a gift and mingle with the men and be sure to make a point of talking to your son's girlfriend for just a bit. Nothing says you have to stay the entire time. If you feel uncomfortable, make your excuses after a bit and leave. It will be okay. No one wants to make a scene at a baby shower.
If her family speaks to you, be courteous and speak to them. Again, you do not have to go into lengthy conversations w/them.
Try to remember that this is an event for your son and his girlfriend. If they didn't want you there, you would not have been invited.
It will be okay. No one wants to make a scene at a baby shower.
Job,
As usual, you are right. I'm not super-excited about it, but I will go, behave and quietly make my exit.
Tad
At this point in time, have you stopped to really think about what you dread so much? Do you still have that much attachment to her? Because I don’t think you do. I think you have just conditioned yourself to dread it.
She just a guest. The main event is what’s happening! You are going to be a grandfather and you are going to celebrate in the happiness of your son and family! That’s what this is all about! This will actually be a good time if you let it be!
I can deal with seeing her. It is what it is.
I DO mind her being nice and asking about me and my life and trying to be friendly. She made me out to be a terrible, evil person and now she wants to be nice and "friendly."
No thanks.
If she really believed all of those lies she told about me, she shouldn't want anything to do with me anyways.
Tad
Anyone who lies, cheat, abuse, alcholics, drug addicts, anyone creating chaos in other' s lives for their own selfish benefit are not friends of mine either.
It does not mean we are stuck, it means WE ARE DONE!!!
Good Morning Tad
Congratulations, about to become a grandfather. Awesome!
Your son must be so proud and happy.
I do understand your feelings towards XW, all the lies she told, especially to herself. What do you think would happen when she is unable to believe her lies anymore? Nice and friendly, the start of an apology? Of course she could just be acting and manipulating, no way to know. I just found myself agreeing with your statement that if she really believed her lies she wouldn’t want anything to do with you, and yet she does.
In the twilight of a situation things are dimmer and hard to see.
I hope the baby shower is drama free and you enjoy yourself.
DnJ
I am
Not saying you are stuck. I would just hate to see someone like EHR ruin wonderful moments and family events for you. You shouldn’t dread, you should be happy. No deserves to rob that from you.
Sure, maybe she’s being fake nice. You see through her, and I’m sure she isn’t fooling anyone else. Let her act as she will. You know the truth. Enjoy in the celebration. She is very insignificant .
Thanks for the responses everyone.
I do believe that she is being "fake nice." As I've said before, she is all about appearances and wants everyone to believe that we "just agreed to divorce" or it was "amicable." If people believe that it was a "mutual thing", it takes all of the guilt away from her and what she did. I know the truth and so do my sons.
Personally, I believe that she just finally may be missing our friendship. I know that I'm a great guy and I also knew HER better than anyone. We had a wonderful history and that is something that she'll never have with OM no matter how hard she tries to re-write it.
Tad
HELP.
Well, here we go. I'm sure I'll upset some with what I'm about to write....
I saw three of my sons tonight and got to talk to S24 regarding the upcoming baby shower. It turns out that the baby shower is more of a baby shower/barbecue/party. XSIL and XMIL will be there along with XW. S24 then proceeded to tell me that XW wants OM to be there as well and that he is probably going to invite him because that is what XW wants. I asked him why and he said that XW wants us all to be civil and get along. I feel that she is starting to push the issue. She needs to give up already.
Now, I know that many will feel that I should be the bigger person and go ahead and go. I also realize that eventually, with births and weddings that are sure to happen down the road, I will have to come face to face with OM. But....NOT NOW.
I am not going to be at a "party" with booze, music, XW and OM. I WILL NOT GO. I don't need the drama or the stress.
S24 said that XW just wants us to be friendly and get along. Just to be sure, I asked him again before I left who wanted OM there. He said that it was all XW. She doesn't understand why I don't want to be in the same room with them. Unreal. She left me for this fool and can't understand why I'm not happy-go-lucky and friendly towards them.
I'M DONE.
I was planning on going. I wasn't crazy about it, but I was willing to deal with XMIL, XSIL and XW. I will NOT be going if OM is there. Period.
Just to be clear, I told S24: "I'm not telling you to not invite him. Just know that if you do, it will be best if I don't go." He understood and said he'd think it over.
When my other son (S26) has events with his band, I go and support him and see XW although we don't talk. S26 says that OM doesn't go because he has made it clear that he doesn't want OM there.
XW seems to be really forcing the "getting along" and "being civil and friendly" thing a lot lately. I do believe that she thinks if it "appears" that all is fine, it keeps up her image and lifts a little of the guilt from her. I'm done with her. I want no friendship and would be perfectly happy never seeing her again. She needs to stop or we will have words...
Tad
Good Morning Tad
Have a heart to heart talk with S24. Let him know how, and why, you feel what you do. I believe you have a good relationship with your kids by the sounds of it, so not too big a stretch to share your hurt with them. They are adults and can, and will, understand.
This is obviously a very big deal to you. Therefore, it is a big deal. You are correct you do not need the stress. Ensure those that are most important to you know your reasoning. They will understand. You can always see them another day.
What do you think and feel about S24 inviting OM?
You’ve said it yourself; he is part of their lives, weddings, births, etc... - just not now. So when?
I’m not rushing you. I do see that you know (rational intellect) what has too happen someday, your feelings (irrational emotions) are on another page at the moment. Your beliefs (convictions, faith, soul), not sure yet?
A caution. This line in the sand is putting S24 in the middle - I know they are and have always been in the middle. You are the sane parent, even with adult children; and there’s always an adult in the room - whom is it in the case? Keep leading.
Ensure S24 doesn’t feel that he is, or has to, choose between you and Mom (and OM), even though he kind of is. I’m sure you don’t want S24 having resentment or guilt about making this choice, so do attempt to alleviate that as best you can.
Eventually, you will get to where you are going. Do you have any particular headings? Compassion, forgiveness? That sort of thing?
Each of us walks our path at our own pace, and in our own direction. Everyone’s journey is what is needed for them. You have an opportunity to take a big step out of your comfort zone and make a huge progress - if you choose to. And choice is really what our journey boils down too.
Tad, you are a smart man. Dig deep and stay intellectual for one day, and get through it; leave the emotions at home.
You know what MLC is. You’ve seen the BS, the confusion, the pain, the heartache, and the destruction in far too many lives. Perhaps your actions, the only thing you can really control, can help inspire “better not bitter” for some people - maybe even for you.
You don’t need to be friends with XW or OM. However bitter doesn’t serve your well, and that is for you - not her.
As I said, this is a big deal for you. Don’t make it bigger than it really is. There is obviously, and with good reason, a lot of emotions tied to this - follow something better than fleeting emotions - if your ready.
DnJ
You know, it's ok if you don't want to attend. But be careful not to put it on your son's shoulders. You shouldn't make him feel like he has to choose.
I'm reminded of my ex's family. His mom was the WAS. Her new husband was not the OM, thankfully. The three boys were estranged from her and all married without inviting her. One daughter was dependent upon daddy paying the wedding bills and didn't invite mom even though they were not estranged. When second daughter married she put her foot down and invited both parents; if one or the other didn't come then fine, but she refused to be put in the position of having to choose. (Both came and it was ok).
Just don't put your son in the position of having to choose. Bow out gracefully, let him know it's not his fault but that you're simply not ready to do that and would be too uncomfortable so you're going to skip the event. Offer to take him and DIL out to breakfast to celebrate on another day. Do NOT make him feel like he has to choose.
Tad,
We all understand how you feel. Have a heart to heart w/your son and explain how you feel. However, make sure that you do not put your son in the middle to choose.
You are the only one that can decide what is best for you and no, no one is going to be upset w/you here on the forum. We know how hard you've worked to get where you are today.
Do what is best for YOU! You can always invite your son and his girlfriend out for a quiet dinner and give them a gift for the baby.
Thanks DnJ, Kml andd Job.
Ug....
I've thought about this. I really don't blame S24 for inviting him if he decides to. I really don't. It's HIS party. He can and will do what he wants
I do see XW from time to time. I'm just not ready seeing her with him.
I will ponder some more.....
I really thought I was doing so well. Thought I was done with all of this garbage...
I have so many thoughts on this.
I did not go to my D22' s grad. and eventho it made me sad, i do not regret it.
This May coming, it will be Son' s grad. He is allowed to invite 5 peoples. He chose: his 3 sisters, me and his father. Will ex-h bring OW? One thing i know for sure is Son would be very upset if he did. He can' t stand OW and he vocalise it often. If ex-h does, which ticket who's ticket will she take? Mine again?
My feelings toward those situations are parallel to yours.
Ex-h walked out without a care in the world for the situation he put us in. The kids were young and because i took on ALL responsabilities, they do not care if ex-h had OW in his life. They still had everything they needed at home.
The only resentment they have toward him is the lack of time he spend with them so now, they, like him, will give him their time when they feel like it. ( in ex-h' s mind, this is all caused by me; not his choices and actions)
His OW will NEVER be part of my family. Unfortunately, she is link to my kids by the hand of their father regardless if they like her or not. If ex-h was to pass away, i know OW would eventually vanish from my kids life.
Now, a thought from my side... when i dated Kevin way back, i had tell him it might take a long time for my children to let him in and it might be my own fault because from Bomb, i kept telling my children not to get attached to any OW ex-h would get involved with as they would not stay.
I know they accept OW only by respect for their dad. They want nothing to do with her side of the family nor her own kids.
I had a discussion with D18 last summer about my reactions ( knots in stomach, anger, fear and where it might be rooted from as i beleive once i find the roots, i can heal). I mentioned my strong family values and been unable to enter a new relationship. She said: grand-maman re-married.. my instant response was: "my dad had passed away 2 years prior.
Grand-maman would not have entered another relationship even if they would have been separated. ( my mother was VERY religious and she raised us with religious morals and values ).
My wish is that my kids don' t think it is ok to do to others what ex-h has done. I know they know. Just like i knew my father' s alcoholism was no excuse for his actions. He was still my father and ex-h is still their father.
Doing the right thing is not always obvious nor easy.
No matter what you decide to do, comminucation with your children is a must. The situation through your eyes and theirs is different. She is their mother but she is your ex. She is part of their life but she made OM the new you in her life. This is something kids do not think about but understand.. would they want their ex at every family events?
Would they fake happy to see them? Or would they stay away from them?
If you chose to go, your son will understand if you keep your distance from her.. no fake !!
One more thing..
Your boys are having kids of their own..
It is a matter of time before they ask themselves how their mother could do what she has done.. the more joy they experience within their own family, the glorious you will become as their role-model!
She will always be mom but you will ALWAYS BE DAD, WHO GOT THROUGH ALL THIS CRAP!!
With Regards and MUCH RESPECT,
Diane
Thank you Diane. It is so hard knowing what to do. I do NOT want to go and lose my cool. I doubt that I will, but there is always that possibility. I just can't go and see her with OM. To me, it's like shoving it in my face.
My dad didn't remain friends with my mom after she ran off with another man. XW's mom didn't remain friends with XW's dad after he ran off with another woman. But....I feel like I am expected to. It's not going to happen.
Also, OM has 2 exes. I doubt they go to functions too.
I will talk with S24 some more. If he wants to invite OM, that's fine, I just won't go.
I sometimes think I should disappear and head for the hills...
We often take OURSELVES for granted.
Your son will love you no matter what. The only advise i can give is don' t ghost him. Talk to him.
If you go, he will be happy and if you don' t , he' ll understand since he' ll know why.
Ps are your other sons going? Maybe having them with you might give you strenght?
When my mother passed away last summer and i announced to the kids that ex-h wanted to come, their response was ( shocked) hein!!! Why?
He even drove the 6h00 to het D22 and bring her with him. Again, i asked D22 if he was bringing OW. She said No and i think something clik in her.
Tad - a number of others have weighed in on this and this is your own decision and not for any of us to make for you but I just wanted to offer you a different perspective.
Nobody is asking you to "like" anyone or even necessarily be social with them. This isn't about you. It's about your S24, his partner and the new wee baby that will be brought in to this world.
It's also about respect. Your son has asked you to be part of this celebration. He's also asked others. Some you may like, some we're certain you don't. That was HIS choice. Not your's. You have choices too. You can attend or not attend. But where I'm going with this, is that my own opinion, as tough as it may be for you, is that respect of your son and his partner and of this new life that is being brought in to this world requires you to decide if their invitation or your pride is the stronger.
I'm going to have to face this myself and am grateful that I haven't had to thus far. Not having faced it myself, its not for me to judge. I'm using your situation to think through my own thoughts about this.
It brings to mind my daughter's wedding. Her husband's parents are divorced, have been for some time and absolutely don't like each other. His father brought his partner to the wedding. When the time came for pictures, Mom, Dad, Son and his bride all stood there and smiled. And then went their separate ways. The partner sat in the back and stayed out of the way. Not all do. It's a thing.
But - I'm just asking you to think to see if you have the strength to be there and look past your own hurt to the happiness that is being offered to you.
If the answer is no, or if you think that I'm way off base, then I certainly am not one to judge.
Tad
When my XH and I married we were told my XMIL that we must choose who we were going to have at our big day. I understood - after all, they were divorced and she hated him with a passion. In the end though, we decided that we would not be forced into choosing between them. We invited them both, and their significant others, and let them decide for themselves whether or not to come.
They both realised that our wedding was about us, not them, and they both decided to attend. They behaved as civilly as we could've expected. They each developed the knack of looking into middle distance whenever they were in proximity, and the SO's kept a low profile. It worked so well XH's siblings adopted the same policy; one which is still working to this day.
Your son is not asking you to be buddies with your XW - she is. Her wishes are completely irrelevant. You can make it so that you can still attend big family events whilst remaining civil, yet distant, with your XW. Oh, and if it's any help, from XMIL's experience, she told me it got easier every time. You can do this.
Thanks everyone.
All good points.
I just don't know what to do. Very mixed feelings about it all.
Diane, yes my sons are going. But....will going stress them out? Maybe it would be best if I didn't go.
???
No Andrew, you're not off base.
I appreciate all of the input. I just don't know...
Tad
Good Morning Tad
I’m not sure if you read along with me or not. D16 had a party last night for her drama production crew. It ended at 3:00 am, and I am a victim of habitual awakening, so even with only 3 hours of rest I am - at the moment - up. So, with my limited capacity, and much interest in how a fellow journeyer is traversing his current rough patch, I read and offer my view.
It starts with a question of you. What you be suggesting to me? If it was I with this situation before me.
I just don't know what to do. Very mixed feelings about it all.
Very understandable.
Of course you have mixed feelings - it’s a rather mixed up scenario.
“I just don’t know what to do.” - So very true. You are emotional highjacked for the moment. It is difficult to find a reasoned solution when emotional responses are swirling about mixing you up. Letting thing settle and allowing answers to reveal themselves is advice I am sure you have heard, followed, and dispensed many times.
Feelings are seldom good to follow when it comes to making decisions, or controlling one’s actions and responses.
So, before I lose what little thought I have under the growing pressure of heavy eyelids, let your feeling flit, and follow your reason. I imagine you would tell me that as well.
I am leaning one way more than another; I do believe you should go. The positives and benefits, both immediate and potential, outweighs the negatives - for S24, his family, and most importantly - you. (((Tad)))
I hope I am not overstepping, and I support you and any decision you make. It is just there are times in one’s life where things are counterintuitive, perhaps this is one such time.
Most of us LBS will face similar “in your face” moments on our way to letting go, forgiving, and accepting. Difficult for sure.
I honestly see a better result for Tad, if you attend, rather than not.
DnJ
Thanks DnJ. You are NOT overstepping at all. I appreciate the input.
As for your question...I think I would tell you to try to go because you can't avoid it forever and your kid wants you there. However, I would understand if you decided not to.
My sweet grandmother used to tell me all of the time: "The best way is usually the hard way." Boy, was she right. It would be best if I go, but it won't be easy.
I know I will have to eventually face him. I also know that beating the Hell out of him isn't going to solve anything.
I'm not 100% set on my decision yet, but I've only got one week to decide.
May 4th....ug. Feel like I did when the divorce was hanging over my head.
What to do?
Grandmother. One smart lady!
My Grandma was similarly wise.
Tad, I would feel the same way you do. OM is not just a new partner of your ex wife. He is a man that helped to break up your family, so why does he get to go to family events? Your ex wife is out of line to request that. And I agree. Buddying up and acting like everything is okey dokey just condones and legitimizes destructive behavior. Your ex wife is super manipulative to put you in this position. I don’t look at these people as suffering and in crises (that’s projecting usually from kind people that don’t think selfishly). Just as selfish is as selfish does sort of people.
That being said, it does suck to miss out on a part of son’s life because of selfish and abusive people. It’s like letting the bullies win.
Any way you can arrive either late or early to the party. Arrange it ahead of time so that They leave as you attend ? Can you arrange it between your ex wife and you, as to not add an additional stress to your son who is planning a party and preparing for a baby?
Gerda peeking in. I don't know why, I haven't been posting at all but this made me want to post!
I am all about the forgiveness and allowing God to do the work for you.
But it's just a baby SHOWER. It's not the baby! It's not the baby's BIRTH! It's not you playing a beautiful role as the baby's grandfather for all his/her life! It's not even the baby's first birthday party. It's a bunch of gifts and some appetizers and your W is using it to legitimize her adultery.
A shower is a modern construction of secularized ritual to get a bunch of gifts. The baby isn't even there, and even the modern version of it was always just women with women until the really modern version of it that made it co-ed.
What is natural and right is for you to be married to the grandma and to all be a family and have events together. That can't happen (for now), and that's not your choice. There is nothing natural or right about you having to attend an event with the man who stole your wife, and in no other time of history would this have been expected of you. Think of a Russian novel with this scene. Your character would perhaps go -- with a pistol!
I've been saying no to things that are too emotionally hard, even disappointing my 92 year old father and others. I need to be able to keep functioning and not crawl under a rock, so I might not be able to do everything a perfectly strong or saintly person can do, or that I will be able to do one day. We are wounded! It's like asking someone with a gunshot wound and PTSD to go for a fun afternoon at the rifle range with the guy from the other country's army who shot him.
I pray about things I can't do a lot and I ask God to give me what I need to do something if He wants me to do it. If I still can't do it, I tell God I am not ready and to please forgive me. I go to confession about it. I know you don't have those comforts in your life, but you can do the secular version.
My take is, go have a good cry. Talk to the trees. Tell them it hurts too much. Forgive yourself. Spend that afternoon of the shower handwriting a beautiful book of family stories and photos for the baby and go visit your son the next day with the book. Or do something else positive and beautiful during the shower. Tell your S how sorry you are for your weakness and how you will get stronger as the years go by and how much you love him and how you can't wait to be the best grandpa in the world. Which you will be. Because you have a big beautiful heart. (And big beautiful hearts can be hurt, that's their nature.)
(((((Tad)))))))
Quote:
When my other son (S26) has events with his band, I go and support him and see XW although we don't talk. S26 says that OM doesn't go because he has made it clear that he doesn't want OM there.
This is telling me that S26 probably does not want OM at the baby shower. Maybe you 2 could support one another if you chose to go.
Thanks everyone.
Yes DnJ, my grandmother was very wise. Still think of her every day and miss her wisdom. I can't tell you how many times that I've wished I could talk to her about this MLC mess.
Jujub, I may be wrong, but I believe that my XW keeps forcing the issue because if everyone is civil with everyone, it removes some guilt. She has always been about appearances and I'm sure that she has told everyone that we just decided to divorce...it was amicable. She has always been concerned about being the bad guy and if people know that she cheated, she is....the bad guy.
Gerda, you are absolutely right. XW wants to legitimize her adultery. She also sees my brother being friends with both of his exes and her sister being friends with both of hers. I'm sure it baffles her why we are not friends. We were married longer than any of them. I think that she thinks if I meet him, accept him and am civil with both of them, it takes some burden off of her. It makes it easier for people to believe the lie. I feel that by being friendly and civil or whatever, it means that what she did was okay. It is NOT okay. It wasn't okay then and it isn't okay now....all these years later.
There is nothing natural or right about you having to attend an event with the man who stole your wife,
THANK YOU!
Diane, you are right. S26 doesn't have much to do with him at all. He actually agrees with me and gets why I have a problem with this.
I don't plan on going, but I've gone back and forth many times in the last 24 hours. I have a feeling it'll be a last-minute decision.
My chest hurts.
Take care Darrin.
No need to make ourselves sick over this.
Get some rest and let things slide.
Sometimes the answers come in unexpected situation and make us wonder with a smile.
I held off for 3 years not meeting OW. Which wasn’t easy, because my daughter was a baby. I finally had to because my ex had surgery and couldn’t even get down the status to get his daughter. I was terrified to meet her because I thought I might go off on her. I played every scenario in my head. My ex couldn’t even be present .
And to my surprise, it was no freaking big deal at all. I had built up the horror so much in my head and none of that played out. She was insignificant to me. She was so whatever.
They did me very wrong too. My ex began cheating on me with her when I was pregnant with our first child, our miracle child, our IVF baby. He left when she was 6 months old. Lied about why until I found them out via a stupid greeting card a week before my first mother’s day. This is really freaking super sh!tty on both of their parts.
My point being is it’s probably going to be pretty anticlimactic and the vision in your head is probably way worse. I vowed from the day on that I met her that I would put everything aside and put my Daughter first. I never wanted to miss anything in her life because I gave power to very insignificant people.
You know I think you should go, because these are great wonderful things in your children’s lives . In YOUR life. And it’s about your son and your soon to be grandchild . The day is not about ex and OW.
My wish for you is that you go. For yourself? Because you will see it is way less than what you work it up to. And I believe you will regret not going.
Don’t give power to people who don’t deserve it
Thanks Diane. I will try to chill for the next day or so. I need to get away and take in some nature the first chance I get. That's my one "sanctuary" that always seems to bring me a little peace.
Ginger, thanks for the input. And....I'm sorry. Cheating is bad, but to cheat when your wife is carrying your child....wow. Again, I'm sorry. That is absolutely terrible.
Tad
Hello Tad
I am sorry for the stresses you find yourself grappling with.
I feel that by being friendly and civil or whatever, it means that what she did was okay. It is NOT okay. It wasn't okay then and it isn't okay now....all these years later.
Being friendly and civil means you are just being friendly and civil - that and only that. It does not condone anything.
My XW had her big bomb drop at the supper table, in front of my parents and kids. She blew everything apart, announcing her boyfriend, her affair, and throwing her children away. Right in front of them! To their face!
Days later, she told them of her adultery. Directly to them. No filter. Yuck.
Is that okay? Strangely - yes.
This MLC is not anywhere close to what I had envisioned from life. It did not match any hopes for my future family and golden years. This is her path. She absolutely needs to take it, driven to run, a futile attempt to escape her pain; and that makes it okay.
All I mean is accepting it. I don’t like it, nor condone her actions, we are not friends, I don’t like OM, etc... It is just okay for her.
Forgiveness and acceptance are for you.
Your XW, like mine, her path is her’s, her actions, her choices, you cannot control them. Her situation is what it is, no matter if you go or not, no matter if you’re friendly or not, no matter if you forgive or not, and no matter if you accept or not. You cannot change her situation, it’s not about you.
However,
your situation can change.
I offer is the path I’ve walked and what I’ve learned.
In the aftermath of indifference I saw my feelings, emotions, and passions lessen greatly. Love, hate, vengeance, anger, hope, despair - all became somewhat numb. They did not die, just asleep.
I found my convictions, my beliefs, the virtues and vices that make me who I am. I encouraged and fed the ones I wanted - hope, love, forgiveness, compassion, understanding, kindness. Those are active. They do not hurt anymore.
I pulled my XW right in to my heart, loved her unconditionally. I can understand her torments, her pain, can even see the “why” she is running and threw everything away. Once you understand something, or someone, you love them; this viewpoint does not allow her to be an adversary to me.
I love her (the old her to be honest). I love her enough to let her go. I love her enough to forgive her. That is incredibly freeing!
Vengeance, anger, despair, hatred - just are not a part of my life. And those ideas and feeling are really difficult to even “force” to the surface. I do have some sympathy towards XW, however it is mostly empathy that is the lens I see her through. Sympathy is pity and sorrow for someone’s suffering. Empathy is understanding. A significant difference.
All this is beyond the next 6 days and the upcoming celebration. I realized, just like you, there are many life events that will happen. How do you want to feel about them? How do you want to think about them? What beliefs do you want about them?
Forgiveness. It doesn’t blame, or seek restitution, or worry about condoning or legitimizing her adultery. It is you loving and understanding her enough, and letting go of
your fears and feelings. As odd as it sounds, she really has very little to do with it. Forgiveness is truly for, and about, you.
Acceptance. Settles everything down. One has to have forgiven before one can find peace and acceptance.
Tad, I see a lot of fear surrounding giving credence to her fantasy, the legitimizing her actions. Of course she is looking for that, she has too. Very few people (can probably can even say no one) depict themselves as the villain in their life story. XW is her story’s heroine.
Let go of the fear.
It is okay.
DnJ
I want to speak to the feeling of how being civil or friendly is showing her that everything is OKthst was my fear for a while. Then I realized just being a person who doesn’t walk around with hate in her and walking around with forgiveness instead was the way I want to live my life. Iran not my job to show them what they did was wrong or right. That’s up to the universe. I just wanted peace in my heart and in my daughters heart.
I am very very civil with my ex and OW. Not because what they did was OK. Mostly because I was tired of carrying around animosity and mostly because this is what it is and I have to share space in my daughters life with them.
Recently OW’s mother nearly died. Actually she did. She coded during open heart surgery. She came back, but was obviously very ill. I am a nurse and a former ICU nurse. I reached out ro my expertise which they took me up on. I open myself to OW and told her to call me with any question
I can also do this because I am so far detached. But I still know what they did was horribly wrong and immoral. But they have to deal with that. I know the person I am, how I didn’t did serve what I got. I am confident enough in who I am to just live by my code of kindness and forgiveness.
And while I don’t really even care what they think of me at all. I know OW must know any lie about my awfulness that was told must not be true. She is realizing what a douche her current husband is. And my ex knows deep down somewhere he gave up a good woman who is also a wonderful mother to his child. I can hold my head up high knowing all of that.
Your decision is completely fear based. And fear of things that probably aren’t going to happen the way you think they are. And I would hate to see fear stop you from some of the beat moments in your life.
Let the man upstairs teach your ex lessons. Not you. Being civil and not nasty will not make her think everything she did was ok. Trust me.
DnJ and Ginger1,
Thank you.
You may both be right about the fear thing. I will have to spend the next couple of days deciding what to do. I'm sure after the first time, seeing them will get easier and I am going to have to do it eventually....
Hello Tad
How are you doing?
DnJ
Hey DnJ.
Thanks for asking.
I'm okay. Saw my cardiologist today and he told me to avoid stress but....the event is on Saturday. I AM stressing about it. I'm leaning towards going, but haven't committed to it 100% yet. I'll probably decide last minute. I'll keep you posted.
Gerda checking in with more ((((Tad))))). I have gotten lots of replies on my threads like the ones you are getting here. Though everyone writes with love and your best interests at heart, these calls for courage and strength always made me feel bad, since I was unable to do what all the people who were writing seemed to be able to do. Then I would not only be heartbroken and beaten down by what was happening in my life, but also about my inability to be the detached, strong, loving, person I wanted to be.
My point is just -- you will get there. When you are ready. If you aren't ready yet, that's okay too. It doesn't mean you will miss every baby shower. Just this one. You won't miss the baby him/herself. Just the day when your son and his wife open gifts for the baby. You'll be at many weekends. But this particular weekend, you find it too stressful to have to encounter the people who hurt you so much.
Or maybe the morning of the shower, you'll suddenly be hit with some superhuman courage and detachment and you'll go.
EITHER WAY IS FINE. You'll get there when you get there. In marriage ministries, we pray for our spouse to have a heart of flesh again. A heart of stone allows the MLCer to do what s/he does. You have a heart of flesh, and that's a good thing, even if right now it's keeping you from the next step on your journey.
Of course we all know how freeing forgiveness is, how freeing unconditional love is, how you don't want those who dismantled your family to then take away future event enjoyment from you. All of this is obvious. But that doesn't mean you can do it here and now, for this first event, just because you know it would be better for you. You'll get there. No pressure to be there this weekend. Forgive yourself for not being ready if you aren't. Try again the next time.
Thank you for the nice words Gerda.
I'm taking it day by day. Some days I feel strong enough to do it and other days I want no part of it.
I'm trying to not get physically sick over it. (Actually had chest pains over it the other night.) I've had heart issues for the past couple of years.
Saturday is the day and I most likely won't even know until Saturday if I'm going or not.
Thanks again for the really nice words.
Tad
Good Morning Tad
Nice to hear from you, and so quickly. I am concerned because this is stressful for you, and you are understandably stressing and suffering over it.
I know my part in the pushing of you. Personally, I like to think, “the inspiring of you”, instead of pushing, the well-meaning suggestions and all.
To that end, your struggle is with you, in your heart and head. You are already battling, and you are already winning, because you are looking at this with accuracy, and the heading (idea) of forgiveness and acceptance.
You are demonstrating this slow walk to victory, in some days you feel strong enough and other days you want no part of it. Back and forth, setback and gains, an overall movement forward - that is perfect.
The vast majority of being able to be in the same room as our spouse, ex spouse, person that hurt us, happens before that time; healing is not dependent on seeing them or being in the same room. From my experience, 90% (ok I don’t really have an accurate number, it is high though) is just with ourselves and our demons. That is where you are, and I believe you know this. (((Tad)))
You are making progress. Just read back a bit and see how far you’ve come; much difference view and acknowledging of the possibilities than when first posted.
You are doing very well.
DnJ
Thank you DnJ. I would say that you are "encouraging."
No worries.
Yes, I'm making progress....slow progress.
I would like to get this event over with and be there for my son, but still not sure if I can.
I will decide on Saturday.
We shall see...
Tad-
You don't have to. I know how fragile you were in your divorce and how hard it has been for you to get this far. If you think you can't handle it, you don't have to.
Look, my ex's new wife is NOT an OW, and I don't remotely want my ex back or care about her, but it's still really difficult to be in the same room as my ex since he has treated our kids badly since the divorce in various ways. If it weren't for that I'd probably be fine with them, honestly. One of my son's is graduating in a couple of weeks and I think he is wrestling with feeling uncomfortable with having all of us (my ex and his wife, me and my other son and my mom ) all together at lunch afterwards. I don't want to cause my son any discomfort and told him we could invent an excuse why we have to return home after and he can just have lunch with his dad. I know he loves me and don't want him to feel like he has to be stressed out between us all. The silent daggers my mom would shoot at my ex would probably be too much anyway hahaha.
Thank you Kml ..
To ALL of us on this forum, we share our stories, we look for support and validation. We are sometime quick at giving advise without knowing the whole story of the poster.
I do not like 2x4s. They can do harm and this is not what this forum is for.
Give your opinion but do not push anyone to do what YOU think is the right thing.
The poster shoukd ALWAYS do what is right for him or her.
SUPPORT is what it' s all about.
We learn alot here. We are giving tools to help us navigate through this.
We go forward and we stumble at time. It is all part of life.
Tad, you do not have to decide anything at this very moment. In the morning of the event, you will know what is right for you to do. Then and only then should you make the decision.
Please, be good to yourself. Many people love you and will still love you no matter what you decide.
Thanks KML and exquisitetobe.
Diane, I don't mind all of the advice coming in. I consider it all. Some will feel I should go and others don't think I should go. To be honest, I feel both ways...I should...I shouldn't.
My big thing is: if I go, will it make S24 uncomfortable? If I don't go, will it disappoint him? If I go, will I lose my cool? If I don't go, will I wish that I did?
Seriously, I'm good with all of the opinions and advice. Still undecided....
Tad
While I may push a little more than others, my advice is in no way 2x4’s. You don’t need 2X4’s . Maybe just some different perspectives and relatable stories to help you.
I just think getting over the fear ( and I do believe in my heart of hearts it is a fear) at a smaller event will give you less anxiety, or perhaps none. For the bigger events you’ll really want to be a part of. I speak what I speak because I do get it. My ex’s wife is the OW.
I was very close to my ex sil. I even lived with her for a while. She spoke and spoke of her wedding and decided not to invite me. I had to find out on my own, she didn’t even come to me. I was devastated. So hurt. She didn’t want any “problems” on her wedding day, which I would never cause. FF years later and all of us attend her annual Super Bowl party together.
I almost also didn’t let my daughter go to the ex’s and OW’s wedding. Thanks to this board I 2 days before, I said OK. Thank god I did, because how would I be able to explain she wasn’t at their wedding and why?
Tad, your decision is your decision, and I support either way. But if I didn’t help you look at this from a different perspective, I would feel I didn’t do right by you, especially knowing my own experiences there is no judgement either way.
I am forever thankful to those on this board who gave me perspectives that scared the poop out of me.
My 11 year old came to me and thanked me. She told me she is so happy that her parents get along . She knows most divorced parents can’t even look at each other and it has made her so happy.
The way our coparenting turned out offer D isn’t the usual story. Very rare. And we didn’t have a “mutual” divorce. Him and his wife betrayed me worse than I could have ever imagined being betrayed . I wanted to DIE. And I guess one day I woke up and decided no way Jose. I’m taking back my life.
Again, my what I say is out of experience. Not to hand you 2x4’s. You don’t need that and you don’t deserve that. And I support you in your choices. Not that my support matters, but I do really get it. I wouldn’t say what I do if I didn’t see benefit in it for YOU
Thank you Ginger1. It's all good. I appreciate all input.
I'm still undecided. I saw someone today that looked similar to OM. I could almost feel my blood boil.
I honestly wish that today was Sunday so this would be behind me.
Bleh....
Tad,
Breathe! You will know what to do Sunday morning.
Screw it.
I'm going.
Job, it is actually Saturday afternoon. (Tomorrow)
This will be interesting.
Way to go Tad!
You got this.
HAHAHAHA!!!
Now OM is not going.
My new thread is titled "OM Backed Out"
Can't remember how to link them.
Please check it out.
Tad
New Thread:
OM Backed Out