Previous Thread:
My StoryHooray, new thread, new year.
I'm just enjoying a quiet day at work and catching up on the boards and reading my friends' thread. Hello to new folks!
If you aren't sure how to link threads in the future, I'll be happy to provide you w/instructions on how to do so. It's very easy.
I would love instructions or even the point to the pre-existing instructions I couldn't find last time I looked =). Thanks for your help!
Here's the link.
How to Link Threads If you run into any trouble or have questions, please feel free to ask me.
Thanks Job.
Journaling...
I never thought I would say this, but I am currently envying people who do not have to put up with their MLC spouse living in the house.
Sometimes, he is so sane and he toe-dips into emotional awareness and personal insight and seems to be taking responsibility for his emotions and caring about mine.
And, then, one day, bam, he does the same thing he always does... asks me if I'm okay when I seem to be upset and I answer him (4 sentences or less!) and he has a freak out. How do I not get lulled into this belief that he's going to be a perfectly reasonable human being? Like, I struggle so much with keeping my expectations at zero when he's been kind and thoughtful and responsive.
There are days when I wish I didn't have to put up with him and his unpredictability, his wild mood swings, his nonsense.
I don't want to bear the full burden of running a household on my own. I want to Stand for my marriage. I want to be a person who makes it through to the other side, marriage in tact. I realize that my H doesn't seem to be AS batsh*t crazy as some other people's MLCs, and sometimes, I wish he was so that I could really, truly let go of the expectation that he treats me like someone he cares about.
HaWho, I seriously do not know how you managed for over 3 years of this. Sometimes, I want to burn the bridge and get on with it already. To be out of limbo regardless of the consequences. Sometimes, I want him to GO already.
And, I swear, when I feel that way, he KNOWS it. Because when I get close to my own breaking point of "I've had enough", he cleans up his act and says/does JUST ENOUGH for me to calm down. Like, he's not emotionally aware but he plays me like a puppet sometimes. Intentionally? No, I don't think so. But actually? 100%
Hi Surv1ve,
Well, my theory on that is this: when you've been in a longterm intimate relationship, each party knows the other, so well that it's instinct. My best advice is detach as best you can. That's the key, but so difficult.
xoxoxoxo
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
Yes, in the early days there was a certain tango we danced: it's the dance or distance and pursuit. Though yours seems significantly more in tune as he asks how you are doing.
My best advice? Try hard not to watch it all. It's hard to do in the beginning but once you begin to do, you get a morsel of sanity and some semblance of freedom from the lunacy.
Survive,
I’ve been trapped in this dynamic for some time and I can’t take it anymore. I’m moving out in hopes of getting to a healthier place. You can only control you.
I need to go back to reading and thinking about detachment. I am actually great when the Monster is out. But when he's been a guy I like and I slip into expecting that to continue, I get bitten.
Sure enough, I came home and he apologized for asking me if I was okay when he didn't have capacity to listen. He even said, "I was uncomfortable that you were having emotions and I tried to fix them into something I was more comfortable with. That's actually super controlling and it's all on me."
He said he feels like he SHOULD be the person who is emotionally responsive but he just needs to own that he often isnt and live with that rather than trying to be someone he can't be right now.
He talked about how stressful the holidays/our birthdays filled him with anticipatory stress and he knows is less aware when he's anxious.
So self aware sometimes but just as stuck as everyone else. Detachment, I must practice.
Survive, can you check out marina7's thread on newcomers? She seems to be in need of some of help and isn't getting a lot of responses. She has a same sex relationship gone awry with some adopted children. I thought since you had that component with OM in part before the transition maybe you could offer her some advice. I have no framework for understanding what special considerations she might be facing, if any.
Ah thanks for the point in the direction! I will pop in and do what I can.
And thanks to butterfly, hawoo and gordie for recently popping by my thread, and especially to you, ownit, who i feel is sort of usually looking out for me. <3
I saw a reference to the MLC "baiting" the LBS back with just enough on someone's post. I think I already forgot who... but I was wondering if a few people could speak to this phenomenon. Like, when H is kind/thoughtful, is H just wanting to keep me where I am, subconciously, at least? What's the word, folks?
For me, nice has meant something bad is coming.
Mine used to bait me all the time to justify his actions. I stopped giving him emotion back. Now he seems to have let that stuff go and is inching forward quietly.
Mine for sure used to bait me to justify his Monster and, if he Monsters up again, I expect the same. I more mean that, when I feel like I am reaching the end of my rope or ready to shut him out, he seems to be kind and thoughtful and generous enough that I stay hopeful about our R. And, I'm suddenly resenting feeling hopeful.
Ah, yes. Mine will still do something nice every time he does something awful. I just see it as as part of his fear of abandonment. A month ago we had a series of unpleasant conversations. The next day he included me on a group text with the kids thanking me for the pictures I had sent him. He has never before thanked me for that sort of thing. When we had our huge unpleasant conversation in July, he texted me right after to thank me for meeting with him. On July 3 we had a big argument. The next day he sent me a 4th of July card. Try not to read too much into it. Just part of the push-pull dynamic.
Surv1ve, I don't think I've had any experience with baiting. My H is so passive and lazy about everything sometimes I wish he could be just a little crazy!
Has everything gone quiet with ex/OM?
Hi coly!
I wouldn't say that it's quiet w EX/OM but the intensity seems to be gone. He sent me a credit card statement (we still share finances) and he had recently paid his L another $2500. I did my part of financial disclosure (draft) in early December. I would say we are civil and good coparents but the intensity seems to be gone. I'm not getting a giant blame fest that I am aware of.
EX/OM also gave me a really thoughtful and gorgeous very "me" Christmas present. I cried a whole bunch because it was so confusing. Like, it came with a letter that was so full of love but in everyday life he doesn't act as if he cares about me. When he asked me how I was doing, I expressed my confusion because rhis present can only comw from someone who loves me. He just nodded yes.
So, I don't know what's up with him. He is still going through puberty and is communicating much more clearly about his needs and wants and thinks testosterone has done that. I then wonder if he's stop blaming me for failing to misread his invisible needs... or actually lying when I directly asked.
Every once in a while, he softens towards me and expresses a willigness to actively work on our relatuonship (like to be warmer) and then he gets mad at me about something and closes down all the way. When I got the financial disclosure request from OM, I separared any actual joint accounts or credit cards. He shut me out. And before that, it was my deciding I was done having areas of the house that are off limits to me. I can't regret either of those decisions.
Every time I pull away, my stbx gets does nice things for me. This used to get my hopes up. But as long as OM2 is in the picture, it means nothing. Here’s a q I’ve been thinking of asking you but have been afraid to ask. My stbx says she loves two men at the same time but I don’t want to be in a three way R so I am walking away. She doesn’t know why I won’t go along with her wishes and be friends and have sex while she is with someone else. You must have seen this movie before. Any advice?
I haven't read your sitch from the beginning, but these are my generic thoughts.
The short and sweet: Nope! H@ll, no. And, again, not a chance.
As a queer person, I know lots of folks who are queer and lots of people who are poly/non-monogamous and those two communities overlap. I have seen SEVERAL people in long-term monogamous relationships (10+ years) experience a sudden demand from one partner to open their relationship. I mean, if you're monogamous but share spaces with poly communities, in the early throw of an MLC, it probably looks pretty tempting to just open the M. But, of course, even if the spouse agrees, if someone is in an MLC, they're going to find something else to go batsh@t about. In some cases, the spouse has gone along and in other cases the spouse has not agreed. In all four cases I am thinking of, it proceeded the imminent explosion of the relationship.
I mean, also, I am assuming your STBX has been typically MLC cruel and heartless rather than ethical in her considerations of opening her relationship.
And, when I read your stich, it seems like it goes fundamentally against your principles. No matter what it was, I would recommend against pretzel'ing and handing over your values in order to keep your partner. She doesn't respect you, and if you bend over on something important to you that wasn't part of your initial M agreement, then you will both lose respect for you.
Thank you. Cruel in the “I’m going to be with OM whether you like it or not. Let’s have an open m” kind of way...yes. I appreciate your perspective.
Which is essentially, "I am going to cheat, you can't stop me, and you're not allowed to be upset about it."
So, it's day 3 for me of, "What is the point of all this." The "I just don't care" sprang forth with H gave me his usual 2-second hug before I went to worth. Just the... really? What's what we have here? That is the affection you can show me?
It is our regularly scheduled night out together. He occasionally uses the word date and I avoid naming it anything at all. I'm not sure how to engage. Do I try to tap into my love for him, buried somewhere? Do I give him this "meh" face? Part of me is tempted just to cancel as that would surely shake him up. I have no idea how to engage with him. Anyone have any advice in the next 2 hours before I have to go home and look at him?
{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}} cuz you seem like you could use one today
I would take a very deep breathe, go for a brisk walk outside, then go home and have the night out.
Think long term. Fake it till you make it today. You haven't made any decisions yet, so I think doing what has been working is the order of the day. Then if at all possible, see if you can have some down/alone time over the weekend to sort out what's going on with you.
Hope this helps xoxoxo
Thanks butterfly. I'm also so sad about it, but confused and frightened too.
I know it's only 3 days, and that's probably no big deal and I don't have to make any permanent decisions today. But, I have never felt like I just don't care before. I have felt fed up when I don't think I can't any more hurt or harm or abuse.
There has been no recent event though. So to feel this way makes me afraid that I am about to "give up" which might be a relief but also probably means my family is done.
For people who gave up and called it quits, how did it switch from hopeful LBS to all-done LBS.
Hope this doesn't trigger anyone. If hearing about death bothers you, please stop reading.
My beloved dad died of cancer about 17 years ago. It was a brutal cancer. There was a brutal surgery. He suffered hugely 2 years, but then when he went it was quick and sudden. I came out of a class and my H had our one year old daughter and said we need to leave this second. It's dad. I knew.
We drove 4 hours and got there just as they took him off life support. The other family left because they had been there earlier. H and I stayed.
My dad began to take agonal breaths. I won't say much more except that this is a sound you never want to hear. They become further and further apart until the person is dead. Between each one you think, that's it, it's over, but then a part of you prays that it won't be.
I think this is how you stop caring. How you give up. How you throw in the towel. You accept the reality. You see the death, you hear it, you feel it. But it isn't swift, even when it is. And those moments between the agonal breaths make you agonize about whether you want it to end or not.
Your feelings will probably cycle back. You will probably care again. But then you will hear another agonal breath. Either the patient will make it or he won't, but you will feel the life and the death every moment until the end is the inescapable reality.
What is one of the greatest joys of my life? That I was there, that I held his hand, that I cried with him as he left this earth.
Copied from my personal journal...
I told him all the things.
About literally feeling myself un-attach after a 2-second hug because I'm tired of that being the limit of physical affection. About exhaustion. About the woman with the dorm room husband who has gone batsh*t and mean and is monstering again. About the terror of whatever is shifting in my gut and knowing that I need to let it run his course.
He sort of knew. He said, "You didn't want to go out with me or be near me, which means you have no hope of getting what you need from me. You're trying to decide if I am going in the acquaintance bucket. And, if you do, are we roommates? Do we get another house?"
And, I just let it all out, unfiltered, incredible aching sadness, no hope of anything he might say in response. I am not looking for anything from him, and anything he gives me is just designed to keep me here, nice and safe for him, while he goes off into the mountains with this figurative stick on his back. I mean, do I want him to talk me out of it or give me hope? Actually, no. I'm tired of hoping. And, his crumbs.
I told him that the mid life crisis is 2 to 7 years and I don't think I have it in me. That people who come back the relationship before the mid life crisis is done just do it again, a few years later, and worse. The march of the Penguins. That I can't endure another monster period. I can't endure another life turns upside down on a dime. That I love him and I know he loves me, but I am tired of living with someone who is terrified of showing me love. That I deserve so much more than this.
He said, "I can't rush it. I have to go through at my own pace. And, realistically, I will probably monster again. From what I've read, it's part of the process."
He seemed sad and resigned. He thanked me for telling him, because he wants to know rather than imagining all the worst things.
And, I still believe we were heading for this the moment we met. And, it isn't really his fault though he's accountable. And none of that means I can endure any longer, that I have to, or that I have much less in my tank.
So, I am going to go to the grocery store and buy food to make and cry. And let this unfold, whatever it is. Gut, I am listening.
Ownit, I keep re-reading your story about your dad. I can't decide how to hold my dad's hand as he dies in this situation, but I want you to know that it moved me. Thank you.
Survive, I can tell you first-hand that it keeps coming back until they get through and it takes a very long time. I never realized it until I wrote that post to you, but I have been holding his hand through this death of our marriage and his crisis and consoling him while I have largely ignored my own grief and my own needs. Ultimately, I think I am doing it so I have no regrets later on because I fear for him where his life is heading based on what I have read and what he has done. I have no regrets with my dad, but then again he did not choose to leave me and he did not leave me for someone (or a series of someone) else.
You are a very progressive and evolved person. It seems that you're built for there to be multiple "someones" in your life and you expect that as your reality. I think you are more in touch with your own needs and wants than your average person. Based on that, it is completely understandable that you would be able to view this decision in a more detached way and would be able to reach a place of self-healing faster than a lot of us old fashioned, romantic-leaning, fixers.
You have every right to be done here. You have endeavored to do the right thing and support him through his crisis. He also seems far more in touch with his feelings than others. He will likely weather the storm and deal with the wreckage better than most as a result. Also, his OW (in this case EX/OM) has been in his life a long time and he knows what that picture is going to look like for him.
My guess is that you will be able to pull off the proverbial friendship following breakup. That all of you will be enlightened and forward-looking and decent.
That's really a wonderful picture if it frees you from a place you don't want to wait anymore.
I hope that if you do go there, you will still stop in and tell us how you are doing and what you have learned. You have so many things to teach.
Hey Surv1ve, sorry you are having a tough time recently. I am glad you gad that frank and honest talk with your H. It is good that you can both talk about your feelings and I think you are lucky in a way that your H, as OwnIt mentioned, is very much in touch with his feelings.
I was interested in your comments about him 'monstering' again in the future and him validating. I thought this was the case if they do not go through all the 'stages' to the end and you try and reconcile to early? None of us knows what the future holds and I would say you need to be careful that you don't make this a self fulfilling prophecy. If you do reconcile at least if it happens again you will be better equipped to deal with the fallout and you know that you are strong enough to get through it.
(((Surv1ve)))
Hi Coly. Thanks for the visit.
My heart is still breaking. Yesterday, we went skiing as a family and had a great time. The tears came at day's end when I was washing dishes. After that, TV time as a threesome and I found myself curling into the far corner of the couch and saying to H, "I'm sorry. I need space." I never say that. Having his body in proximity of mine gave me the heebie jeebies. It's such a weird feeling; I feel like I don't even recognize myself. And, I feel like I've been carrying this huge heavy burden by myself, and I just can't do it anymore... and he will deeply hurt me again.
Facebook reminded me that this is the 1-year anniversary of him punching a wall last year out of anger, and breaking his hand, and of me sitting with him for 10 hours in the ER while he was terrible to me. It was the worst Monster episode I experienced. On one hand, he didn't want to be alone and, on the other hand, he didn't want to be vulnerable with me so he just kept being awful all day long but then saying I didn't have to be there but then saying he didn't want to be alone. EX/OM shut him out completely that day as he had a big response to H's uncontrolled anger of wall punching. If I could go back in time, I would have left him there... hand broken, his connection to his favorite activity (rock climbing) severed for the time being. He needed surgery; he had 6 fractures.
I wonder how much of what's happening for me is the body memory, the anniversary memory, of that extreme monster.
I'm so sad and broken hearted, and yet there is no part of me trying to reach for him. When I feel this way, I want to reach and then I wrestle with that desire. Whereas now, I just feel like reaching is pointless...? Or, I want to let the hope go?
And, I am mad at myself for "not being stronger."
So, I don't know if I would call it cycling, but I think I have found new footing. Maybe it's called detachment.
Walking on Saturday in the woods, I saw this image of myself dropping the heavy weight and just waiting to see if he would carry any of it.
I find myself not wanting to sit next to him on the couch and significantly... pulling away? letting go? letting go of my death grip of "I will OUTLAST this nonsense and we will find our way back together."
H is currently chasing some. He followed me to the door this morning as I left for work and offered me a hug. He followed through on our lunch plans and said, "I get something out of our lunches together. I don't get as much out of them as I get out of our evenings together, but I get something out of them. I enjoy them." It's pretty much the first thing I've heard in terms a soft statement of enjoying or valuing his time with me in a long time. I am trying to make sure I don't soften... or pick up the rope?... based on those tiny things alone.
We had a big conversation about the bathroom. I have a townhome, standard layout, main bathroom upstairs and an ensuite off the master bedroom. For years, we've said that we are going to renovate that, knock out a wall, and put in a Jacuzzi tub! My dream bathroom. I recently found mold under my ensuite bathroom vanity and H was going to redo a good chunk of my bathroom. I couldn't figure that out, because it was a lot of work he was going to do to make it nice again (my shower also needs a repair and I don't use it). Tuesday is our family meeting night and he asked me, alone, what I do with the bathroom if labor/money were no object. The answer is: my Jacuzzi tub.
Those conversations are so hard to have because we're not really talking about the tub. We're talking about who is going to be living in the house in a year, but we only talk about the tub. I asked if he was willing to spend thousands of dollars for me to have my tub and he said, "That's a lot of money and time."
I stewed for a while and I said, "If we weren't doing this weird whatever we are doing, we would just do get the bathroom." He agreed. So, I said, "Listen, I don't know where you're living in a year, but I am definitely still living in this house. And, I am getting the bathroom I've always wanted. This weirdness has already cost me a lot, but it's not costing me my tub. And, I am not looking at a bathroom for the next however many years and remembering the time that I smothered my own needs, so you want me to sign something about property division if we split after we renovate the bathroom, that the cost less the cost of renovating just the ensuite comes out of my property share. No problem."
It was a pivotal moment. I can't put my life on hold anymore. He is going to pick up the rock or he isn't, but in all of my futures, I am getting my bathroom. And taking care of me.
Survive, try not to mind read. You may literally only be talking about the bathroom. My H insisted on spending $5k for shelving and an epoxy loor in our brand new garage and was gone before it was done. They cycle wildly. Work on the detachment. It feels good. Get your bath!
Oh, there were way more clear undertones of what we're doing... at one point, he said, "Well, I don't want to plan that far in the future when we're so limbo."
But, yes to my bath.
Surv1ve, I think you need a Jacuzzi tub! 😀🛁
Get your bath remodeling done. You owe it to yourself to get what you want. I wouldn't put this on hold any longer. No one knows if he will still be around.
As many of them start projects and then....poof! They are gone. Those that start new projects are actually looking for a change and think that these projects will make them feel better, but they soon discover...it's not working for them. My xh started projects prior to leaving the second time and I ended up hiring someone to come in and finish them.
Looking forward to hearing how the remodeling is going. Life is too short to always put off the things you want to do and get.
Oh, thanks for chiming in, Job. That's so interesting about the starting projects to feel better. Maybe that's a thing because he's brainstorming about all kinds of renovation right now.
It definitely felt absolutely pivotal to choose my bathroom.
I also add that, at the night's end...
H: You're welcome.
Me: For what?
H: For asking you what you wanted to do with the bathroom. For creating the space for you to ask for what you wanted?
Me: Um, when I asked you your motivation for asking me that question, you didn't have any.
H: Well, I didn't realize until later that something wasn't sitting right and I wanted you to say what you really wanted.
Um, okay. I have a pivotal moment, and it's of course because you were nurturing me towards growth. Uh huh.
So, I don't snoop on H. But, EX/OM used the family computer and left his profile open and it was too god danged tempting.
What did I learn
1) EX/OM recently emailed a whole bunch of lawyers (2 days ago) on H's behalf with a cc to H's work email address
2) EX/OM still truly believes H only wants to be friends with me and never hears all of H's ambivalence.
3) one of my "friends" has been reporting details of my story to EX/OM so I obviously have to sever that relationship. I was always hesitant because it's one of our mutual friends and the details are a WHOLE LOT but also shoot.
I am almost crying with laughter that EX/OM is doing the emotional labour of finding H a new lawyer. Oh, my goodness. It's hilarious.
I am going to have to bite my tongue for the next few days not to tell EX/OM about all the ambivalent statements I hear from H. It would just spark a fire, I guess? Let H keep his little fantasy land where it's just easy and clean and simple and there are rainbow sprouting from the ground?
And, I am still feeling so incredibly FED UP that this information about H's potential new L makes me want to just greet him in the morning with the words, "When can you move out?"
And, while I am fed up and I stop reaching for H, suddenly all of his language implies we're partners. Blech. Over it.
{{{{{{{Surv1ve}}}}}}}}
you know i've aways believed it's better to know. You've found out a lot. Keep yourself safe. Of course the temptation to feed that 'friend' false information would be vey high.
xoxoxoxo
You know what's wild about this "friend?" Her H had an MLC maybe 8 years ago. I didn't realize it at the time, but yes. H told her he wanted to open the marriage, met a woman online, and was living with her 6 months later, pretty much ditching his two kids to move to the US... and, she's been my friend for 20+ years. She used to come clean our house with EX/OM for pay, and they laughed about how I was silly to not realize how much they'd bonded.
And, I pretty much can't slam the "friend" because then I have to admit that I was snooping and EX/OM will just go extra hard on lock down security.
H yelled at me today. Screamed at me over the phone while I was working and then hung up on me.
I, for sure, had escalated a fight because he was engaging in a Talk with me where I asked consent to ask every single question and then, suddenly, I had no right to be asking him questions. I definitely lost my temper and just started naming, in a row, all the things that are my fault... asking questions, not asking questions, telling him what I need, not telling him what I need. It's all my fault, everything, all of it.
So, I was on the phone basically saying I was all done with his calvin ball and that I need him to stop, stop deflecting his [censored] on to me. yeah, I know, I'm basically asking him to be done with his MLC and wouldn't that be nice.
So, he eventually said he couldn't help yelling at me and if I didn't like it, he would pack up. He has often threatened my relationship with him when I stand up for myself.
I'm still in a place where I've had ENOUGH so I said, "If my choices are share space with someone who thinks he can treat me anyway he wants and yell at me when he wants to or for you to move out, I vote move out."
So, he said, "DONE. I will be gone in 1 hour and I will notify you by instant message if I will be longer."
I came home and he was packing up a small suitcase and now "going to his parents house for a couple of days". I just kept reiterating, "If you would rather move out than treat me well, then I will help you pack your bags."
So, um. er?
Also, extra weird, EX/OM is here while H is not.
Update...
H left for the weekend that time and was a mess of anxiety for a while. A few weeks later, he told me he was getting a L and starting the separation process. I acknowledged him and went back to my book. He asked me didn't I have anything to say and I just said, "You don't treat me well. If you're going to move out, go already. Don't expect me to argue with you to keep you here so you can treat me poorly. But, if you yell at me again, I will ask you to leave and you will go."
That was maybe 3 weeks ago and I haven't heard a peep.
I'm tired.
Paging job!
Could you please and kindly change the name of my original thread? When I google poly and mid life crisis, it now comes up and I would like to be less findable! Thank you.
You are in luck! I was able to change the title of the previous thread for you. I changed it to My Story and left the rest of the identifier out of the Title.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU.
Poking my nose in here.
Where are we now? So much has changed internally and very little externally.
I still have a live in MLC. We still go out each and every week together.
I still live with my other expartner, also called EXOM.
I have shifted to caring a lot less about whether or not things work out and H and I return to our romantic and sexual relationship.
I have increasingly had boundaries and hard lines, and each time I've done so, H has altered himself to respect them.
I ask for the things I actually want, and I fully expect him to say no and I don't really care (but of course I do). It's just I'm trying of saying no to myself and, when he says no, I take it as evidence about who he is and what he is right now.
He's been going to neurofeedback (a very passive therapy) for 6 months and it makes an actual difference. I've been going for EMDR, (a trauma therapy) and he now wants to go for his own EMDR. That's really a pretty big deal and it requires way more addressing his own historical traumas.
We're taking a day trip in 2 weeks to a ski hill 2 hours away. This was a Christmas present from him to me, complete with a cute card of us skiing, and he will do all the driving and emotional labour. I told him I wanted to go away with him for a weekend, and this was his boundaried response.
The person who had just lived through the bomb drop and wanted nothing more than her husband back would probably love to know that I get 2 twenty-minute periods of touch each week, weekly dates, daily hugs, and an H that is way more owning his own stuff and accountable. He talks about "feeling nothing but fear" and wants to learn how to manage the fear. "I know I still love you, I know it's in there, but I feel nothing. I have no idea how to access that."
And yet, I'm also just tired. I'm tired of waiting. I'm tired of crumbs and scraps. I'm tired of living with a H who knows he loves me and is terrified of loving me.
The LBS makes the final decision, these boards said, and 2.5 years ago, that felt like so much hogwash.
And, now I know that if this is to end, I will end it.
"Can you wait 5 years for me?" he asked. "Because I feel like it might take that long."
"No," I said, "not like this. Claim it and tell me that you're trying to save our marriage and maybe. But this weird limbo where you love me and refuse to say so, where you're trying to reconnect in our marriage but you won't name it that way, where you dissociate and forget all of the conversations that are so crucial to who we are to each other...? No, I need more than that."
As always, your wisdom... so appreciated.
So excited to see you back Survive (I have changed my user name and hope you remember who I am). I think you need to change your name to Thrive! I've never seen anyone so in touch with their feelings, boundaries, and able to articulate them in such a clear and unloaded fashion. I'm still waiting on that separation agreement (ok, more than 2.5 years in I'm not waiting anymore, but it is my leitmotif at this point and I'd hate to give it up). Hope the kids are rocking it.
Oh yes, of course I remember my constant commenter. I don't know if my story is just too different or I don't spend enough time here to make bigger connections, AND I really so deeply appreciated your support and I STILL think about the story of your father dying and you waiting for the last breath. I wonder sometimes if I need to see this through, the last breath, and also I wonder how I will know.
The truth is though that I have known. I was practically recruited to be a manager in a dream organization, but it would have been 2.5 days a week and H was about to recant on his weekly touch commitment to me. I had also just accepted a new job paying almost twice what I used to make doing clinical counselling, and that's pretty much what I've always wanted to do. EXOM had been working this crazy job for 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, and it was over and he was now home and H wasn't sure he could do that in front of EXOM.
Me: Okay. Do you. I totally get that it's scary and anxiety provoking and you need to make the decision for you. But, you have two weeks to decide and if you can't follow through on this commitment to me or you don't take the lead and give me an answer, I'm taking the part-time job because I'll be in a safe environment with people who adore me and I will be able to fall apart while we separate houses. I love you, and I know you're doing your best, but if you recant this, I'm done and I need to begin a new life.
HIm: Are you last resort techniqueing me?
Me: Ha. I'm not, actually. It's my truth, but it says so much about how much I've grown that it feels that way to you. Check your gut and see if you think I am telling you a truth or trying to force your hand.
He followed through on his commitment to me. He had a hard conversation with EXOM in which EXOM threatened and yelled and screamed and he held his ground. That was in October.
And, it was just a clear bottom line. A gut truth. A this where a line is for me, and I don't really care what you do because it won't change my truth.
EMDR is so helpful on that front. It basically repairs your brain, adapts it from painful experiences. You act differently, from a place of confidence, and then you later look back and realize the behaviour would have never happened before.
The kids ARE rocking it. They really are, and I'm so proud of them. I will also say that H has been a really consistently great father and he's talking openly about his struggles as a way to model the possibility of change and the importance of emotional awareness and boundaries for the kids. These are all things I'm so grateful for and I also wish they meant I could stay longer. I feel like my clock is ticking so loudly AND I feel like who H is going to be in 5 years if he stays on his path is pretty great.
I think I've been a dang good lighthouse for him. He talked at our last night out about how I've always been growth oriented, I've always wanted to be a better version of myself, I've never shuffled out of personal accountability for that. I know he admires it.
<3
I think people are much more interested in your story than you think. You have over 5,000 views on this thread!
I'm feeling nosy in regard to your posts (but of course you have no obligation to answer anything).
Just wondering how ExOM is dealing with this relationship between you and H. As I recall, he was trying to push you out the door and engaging an attorney, etc.
Also whether ExOM completed the transition and if so did that negatively affected the relationship with your H (I had the impression that you thought at one point that it might).
Trying to imagine people who are self-aware enough to communicate like you guys do. It is so foreign to me. I'm wondering if I would be capable of being in a relationship with that much communication, boundary setting, and focus on needs. I sometimes think I ended up with an emotionally unavailable person because I am myself emotionally unavailable. I also wonder whether I want to be more emotionally available at this point.
Too often in life we are focused on our points of difference, but at heart we all want to be happy and loved. Your story teems with those qualities.
Oh gosh, such good questions, and no, I find it supportive.
There was a date set for meditation back in June, and that was driven by EX/OM where the three of us and our three lawyers were supposed to meet and begin setting a separation agreement. I dreaded it, and I did everything that was asked of me in terms of financial disclosure. As per MWD, I refused to discuss issues directly and used the lawyer as a shield. As it turned out, two of our lawyers were opposite each other in another case and had to cancel that day because they had to be in court. It never got rescheduled. EX/OM started this job a few weeks later, and he's always been the driver. EX/OM has been trying really hard to secure sustainable employment for himself, and that's been his first priority. I know it's so he can leave (or that was the initial motivator), but I also think it's good for him and I support all of his efforts. Frankly, too, I don't want to be financially responsible for him if we do split, so OF COURSE I support his resume building efforts. He hasn't had a lot of work history, and as a trans man with a chronic illness, he has some barriers to face.
I don't discuss my relationship with H with EX/OM anymore. At all. So, it's hard for me to know directly what he thinks, but H does report to me every once in a while that EX/OM is increasingly angry with H for having not moved out yet. Which is super fair, really, as H kept saying he was going to do it and then has made zero progress whatsoever. So, I think EX/OM sees the increase in warmth and knows H is full of crap, and I guess that's between EX/OM and H.
My relationship with EX/OM has gotten much better. It's so confusing. My birthday is in January, and when I came home that day, the entire house was covered in origami butterflies and I received thoughtful gifts and H made my very favorite meal and sent me pictures of its progress throughout the day. EX/OM did something I consider very inappropriate with my son just before Christmas, and I told him if he ever did that again, I would ask him to move out immediately. I was sure I would get the "cold front" after that, but I didn't. If anything, he's been every warmer! He did finally explain that seeing me so angry but also not "splashing him with teh anger" and "keeping it inside my own hula hoop" increased his trust of me. Recently, when he was discussing enrolling in an online master's program and I gave him my full support, he said, "I've been wondering how much of my story about you was the depression and how much of it was who you were back then, when you would hurt people with your emotions." I told him that we should assume it's both. He still feels trapped in the house and frustrated, but he's moved the blame to H instead of me.
H actually does not seem to be bothered the EX/OM has continued his transition and is read as a man in society. He even went with EX/OM to his company Christmas party where people assumed he was a gay man. I was shocked. But, apparently, no, not really a problem.
My lawyer sent me an email a month ago and asked what was going on. I said I had no idea, nothing is moving. So, a pause for now.
Unclear in earlier post: the butterflies all over the house and the thoughtful presents for my birthday were both fully EX/OM's work.
Wow, just kind of fizzled out. I'm so glad that ExOM is now placing the blame with your H. Odd that he is now being nice to you, but I guess since you guys were close before and then the anger goes and the feelings return.
But I don't understand this part: "I've been wondering how much of my story about you was the depression and how much of it was who you were back then, when you would hurt people with your emotions."
Was ExOM meaning your depression or his own? Was ExOM meaning that being an emotional person causes harm to others, or there is an implication that you were acting out from those emotions. I actually think my own H might say that my emotions was one of the biggest problems between us, so this hits somewhat close to home for me.
Such good questions!
EX/OM was referring to his own depression. At the time that everything unravelled, he was not expressing his gender, he hadn't been working, and he wasn't enjoying being a stay at home parent. He said that he had a belief that his role was to be the recipient of my big emotions and assauge them, and at some point, he no longer wanted to do that. He was saying that he believes he was depressed at the time and was perhaps unfair to me, but he also says that my emotional expression is a much fairer expression now. I'm not trying to "get" something when I express emotions. Last week, to me, he said this...
"Emotional growth and healing has always been important to you. But, it's like, if you were a snowplow, you were chugging along but there were spikes in your tractor tires and bystanders would get injured as you expressed yourself and tried to heal. Now, you're removing the spikes from your tires."
Yeah, he always speaks in metaphors.
I think it's a dance that happens between the LBS personality and the MLC personality. He stonewalled me and shut me out, and I escalated my emotions trying to get care and get my needs met. The bigger my emotions, the more he stonewalled. He would blame me for not expressing my needs, so I would express them with such carefulness and accuracy. When he didn't meet them, he would say it's because I was too demanding (the long expression of needs). There was always a reason, but in response to that, internalizing the blame, I spent more time explaining my needs and I made them bigger, trying to make sure no one could pretend to have not know they were there. Of course, none of that was conscious, but in retrospect, that's what was happening. I wasn't expressing an emotion to express it, I was expressing an emotion in a calculated way to try to get a particular outcome. That is, of course, hugely manipulative. So, if i was angry, I might have been trying to evoke guilt or remorse for wrong doing whereas now I'm more likely to say I am angry, this is not okay, and here's my boundary.
I think I express emotions without expecting a particular outcome. Being okay with my own emotions -- even the negative ones like anger, rage, sadness -- means I don't need someone else's permission to feel them. So, I don't try to convince them that I've been wronged, because the emotions already get to be. And, I'm not asking them to fix them for me.
Yeah, not that I'd ever wish for it, but this MLC thing has made me a much better counselor. SO MUCH BETTER.
As to EX/OM being nicer to me, he says it's "civility". But, "civility" doesn't decorate the whole house in origami butterflies. Civility doesn't get excited to watch grey's anatomy. Civility doesn't go skiing with me and ride the chair lift. It's complicated.
Ok, this. This just allowed me to confront the problem with my own emotions: I'm not trying to "get" something when I express emotions.
I like the snowplow and spike metaphor too. I think you are saying in essence, when we feel that others don't hear us, we scream. When our emotions are ignored, we magnify them. I can relate to all of this and see so much of what contributed to our downfall. Obviously not the initial cause, but lead to the snowball effect.
So what did you do to make the volume of your emotions serve your needs but also not weaponize them for others?
Oh that feels harder.
I realize in retrospect that I have always been gaslighted, first by my mother and then by H. Gaslighting referring to the process where in other people essentially say you're crazy to protect their own well being. My mom would minimize my emotions and work on convincing me that I should not be upset, and I learned to distrust my perceptions of the world and of other people's emotional expressions. For years, H would also deny that he was upset/angry/whatever and tell me that I was imagining things. You know, if he was angry and washing the dishes and slamming things, he would deny that he was angry and my gut was just wrong when it insisted that the clench of his jaw meant something.
So, part of my emotional escalation was the request to please affirm that my emotions make sense. That X happened and, of course it makes sense that I feel Y.
At some point, I realized that H gaslighted me. Not maliciously and not out of spite, but it was easier for him to deny his own emotions and tell me I was crazy than it was for him to acknowledge that he felt a negative emotion.
For a good 6 months, I simply stopped expressing my perspective. I didn't offer my perceptions because I couldn't afford to have anyone tell me they were wrong. I worked on trusting myself that that my feelings, thoughts, beliefs about what other people felt around me were okay. Even harder, I worked on the idea that even though H denied he was angry/upset/whatever it did not mean that he was NOT angry/upset/whatever. Maybe my perceptions were right EVEN if he said they weren't. Later, when I started expressing my perceptions, I didn't ask if they were true. They are my perceptions, that's already true. The other person might have a different perception, but that doesn't mean my are wrong.
I also had to learn to trust my emotions. Maybe I had no good reason to be angry, but I WAS angry. My emotions existed and they therefore had a right to exist. What I DO with an emotional truth is my choice, but I am whatever emotion I am and looking for whether or not the thing I feel upset about it is "good enough" to feel upset about is a waste of my time.
Also, my emotions are information that is worth considering. I never wake up and think, "I sure hope I'll be thirsty today." Thirst is uncomfortable and unpleasant and I don't like feeling that way. Thirst, however, also tells me that there is something wrong: I am dehydrated so I can choose to fix it or not. So, if I am angry or upset or sad, than there is something about my environment that I do not like and I can choose to try to fix it or not. All emotions get their space, and no one else gets to tell me if they exist. I don't ignore thirst and get more thirsty, right? And, I don't ask anyone else if it makes sense that I'm thirsy. So, I don't have to ignore anger and get more angry or ask anyone else if X is a good enough reason to feel anger. I can make an active choice to 1) change the situation that makes me angry or 2) increase my tolerance and work on letting it go or 3) shift my focus to things that are more important if this is actually not worth the effort.
So, I didn't need external validation to allow myself to feel certain things.
From there, it's about communicating my boundaries and what the "fix" is if it requires someone else. This means I don't have to engage in long-winded lectures or explanations. I should be able to communicate the issue in less than 4 sentences. No one else needs to decide if the problem is okay with me. I am not asking for their agreement. It's already true that it isn't okay with me. And, then the request/ask/boundary should be a truth, and perhaps there is room for negotiation or discussion.
If I ask for something or express a need and the other person isn't able to meet my request, it doesn't mean that I am wrong to want or need this thing or that I'm not worthy of receiving it. This has made me a better parent (my tween daughter!!!), a better employee, and a much better partner. A better friend, too.
A lot of that is a long-winded way of saying I found self acceptance.
I also think the (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) EMDR has been crucial. I have been receiving EMDR for about 6 months about once every 2 weeks. It is very intense emotional work, but it also is bottom up trauma recovery. It changes the brain. It means that all of the above isn't something I have to work so hard to enact or remember. It means I just act differently. That I don't work on believing my emotions are valid; I DO believe they are valid. I have also been trained in EMDR and I now deliver EMDR in my practice. I like being on both sides of the practice. I deeply, deeply believe in it. Repairing the childhood trauma means that it doesn't get to influence my behavior and beliefs about the world as much.
Here I am again, for my once in a blue moon post that feels read by none, but these are the posts I most hungered for when I was new. The anniversary of my bomb drop is coming round again... and, this year, I will be scuba diving with my MLC and he knows I'm reclaiming a difficult day by spending it with him.
Oh, it's not all fixed yet. You want so much to believe in the beginning that your might be fast.
If I were going to provide you a quick snap shot, I would say...
MLC and I go out every week to go rock climibing and get some pub food
MLC and I cuddle on the couch twice per week on a schedule
MLC and I still avoid emotional topics except when scheduled and I still keep them to less than 20 minutes
MLC admits that he loves me and he's terrified all the time
MLC does not sleep with me and rarely comes to our former marital bedroom for any reason
MLC did tuck me into bed recently
MLC seems to admire my growth
MLC watched as I dated someone and broke up with them and talked about how much I've changed since 2 years ago (we were always open so this is not a huge deal that I dated, but me ending a relationship because it wasn't meeting my needs is new)
MLC knows that I'm the decision maker and that I occasionally set boundaries and I'm ready for this to be done, if need be, as much as I want it to work. It's me who will end this if it ends. That's always been true but I know it now.
MLC went to the therapist today to get his own EMDR after nearly 6 months of talking about it
MLC is able to openly say that he values my friendship deeply and, when asked, will tell me he's in touch with very little else in an active way
MLC is often able to state limits and boundaries and trust that I care about them.
And, to get here, I've had to do so much hard inner work in a way that was not fair at all and with no guarantees of an outcome and know that I was doing it for me regardless of the outcome. I had to do all the heavy lifting.
If I could recommend anything to newer folks, it would be to become okay with setting some boundaries. Every time I've set an honest boundary that was my truth, it has been a great thing for me. And, if I'd lost my MLC monster because I set a limit? Good riddance, honestly. My MLC monster only became my MLC friend after I set boundaries.
I told MLC that if and when he's ready, he should consider coming here to post as people would love to hear what's in his head (when he figures it out). Yeah, I broke the cardinal rule and told him this exists... but, we are beyond the monster days and he isn't going to leave unless I throw him out.
Hello! Nice to "see" you.
I read your posts, when I'm here. I've not been here much ... it's hard, as time goes on, to read all the pain. My heart aches for the newcomer who just wants this to end and to have their beloved family and spouse back, you know? and wow, that's just not going to happen in a timely manner, because the MLCr has to go through their process, however long it may take. I've moved to the Post D part of the forums.
And, to get here, I've had to do so much hard inner work in a way that was not fair at all and with no guarantees of an outcome and know that I was doing it for me regardless of the outcome. I had to do all the heavy lifting.
YES. Absolutely. that's exactly it, the path of the LBS.
If I could recommend anything to newer folks, it would be to become okay with setting some boundaries. Every time I've set an honest boundary that was my truth, it has been a great thing for me. And, if I'd lost my MLC monster because I set a limit? Good riddance, honestly. My MLC monster only became my MLC friend after I set boundaries.
Now this is interesting. When I set limits, my MLCr monstered more at first then would simply disappear. That's his M. O. though. I think mine thought he could do whatever he wanted. He was absolutely shocked at some of the firm limits I set. I've wondered where we would be today if I hadn't set them. Would we be back together? If so, I know I wouldn't be happy, but would be going along and stifling my own needs to keep the family intact. That is no way to live, so overall, I'm at peace with the limits I set.
Your update shows your hard work and also progress. My heart goes out to the MLCr and your H in particular, as he's clearly in pain and doing his best to find his way back. I'm so glad the MLC path isn't mine. Keep posting Surv1ve. You're doing great!!! xoxoxo
Oh hello bttrfly.
I'm glad you set your limits. Yes, maybe you would have kept your MLCer a little longer, but at what cost? I know that is what helped me to set those first limits: seeing that he thought I'd tolerate anything and knowing I was erasing myself. My biggest grief these days is that I tolerated so much abuse from him. That I sold myself out.
And yes the MLCer and my H are in so much pain. He articulated in his therapy appointment realizing that his parentsnever praised punished him like he didn't matter or didn't exist. And he understands how he blamed me for everything and projected so much on to me. He says he has to figure out how to forgive himself. The anger at me seems gone. I saw the monster briefly this summer, but when I named it, he immediately reverted to his new normal which is wavering between fear and anxiery. When he's calm, he can be warm and compassionate. He is absolutely terrified of resuming our romantic or sexual relationship... that he won't be able to set limits or boundaries and he'll just be swallowed.
I know now that resolution back to marriage will take a long long time and I wonder if I will have the patience. And there has been so much beautiful growth in this last year.
happy thanksgiving Surv1ve xo
Yes Surv1ve, happy holiday!! I forgot you Canadians don't know what day to celebrate Thanksgiving. Everyone knows its the third Thursday in November.
Oh, thank you butterfly. I'm popping into share a journal entry here. For those following along, EMDR is a trauma recovery therapy that I both use with clients as a therapist and receive myself. Thinking about the concept of "be the lighthouse", H has been watching my growth and my belief in EMDR and is actually, of his own accord, going to EMDR therapy. And, I'm pretending that I'm in a piecing phase (perhaps to my detriment) and I have telling him that my clock is ticking and I need to see a return to a marriage or an intention or I need to be done. But, goodness, things are DIFFERENT these days.
And here is a snippet for you about where things are in my home and about my H
He's been going to EMDR to process a climbing fall. A few years ago, his lead belayer wasnt paying attention and he hit the ground on a hard fall. He says he knows it's just the thing that will get him in the door and he's okay with tricking himself.
Last session, he shared with me that in EMDR, he realized all the ways he avoids climbing with others where he might be at risk of taking a fall. The first major recognition from him in a glad aha way of self recognition about how he avoids and then blames others. To myself, also wondering if he will realize how much he did that in our marriage... avoided his needs and joys and then found ways to make it all my fault.
I've been certified to lead belay him, which is just more complicated and greater risk of falling. On Saturday, as we talked about climbing outdoors, he said, "this is such a great way to get past this climbing block... climbing with someone I trust implicitly." I cried. He saw and said, "yeah, I said I trust you implicitly"
On Sunday, he took a bunch of smaller risks and made moves where he could take a fall rather than keeping well within his skill range. And, he also leapt so that he was fully off the rock to grab a jug that was out of his reach. "That's so cool. I made the decision about the best move, felt the fear and just did it. I did it!" Excited and vulnerable and joyful. I was so glad to be there with him.
We're going away in two weekends together. Except he hasn't yet told EX/OM and he says it's his job to tell EX/OM. H and EX/OM are going away next Monday.
We had a couple minutes alone in the driveway last night.
H: no, I haven't told EX/OM yet. I will. I just... do you understand how when there's multiple pressures on me, I just get stuck on the easiest things.
Me: it's not easy. Telling EX/OM you want to spend a weekend away with me isn't easy and spending a weekend away with me isn't easy. I get it. I see you. I know.
H: (relaxes).
Me: I love you.
H: I know.
Me: and I know you're doing your best. You always have, even when you were being a monster. And your best is so much better than it used to be.
H: (relaxing).
Me: but that doesn't mean I won't be mad or upset if this doesn't happen and it's so soon that EX/OM would be well within his right to say he doesn't have enough notice. This was our solution to my need, and I'm not going to be okay with deferring it. That doesn't mean I don't love you or see you. It just means I also love and see me.
H: (fear look)
Me: again, I will say it again. I love you and I know you're doing your best. I'm going inside now.
This morning, I'm glad for his emdr. Maybe he'll have the aha that he sees the move and just has to make it, fear be damned.
Lol! This journal entry is written about the Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend, so you're both lovely.
And, I'm a transplanted American who grew up in Florida... so, you know, it's too cold here for a celebration of the harvest in November? You're both wonderful to check in on me.
Surv1ve, I would never be able to speak up for myself with such compassion for him. Great job!
Oh Goodie, now we get to wish you Thanksgiving on the appropriate day!!
And, what OwnIt said. As you've said in the past, I also believe you're a step ahead due to being a therapist yourself, but very, very proud of you for your compassion towards H while also standing for yourself. Takes great courage. Well done my dear! You are a woman of dignity! xoxoxo
Yes Surv1ve, happy holiday!! I forgot you Canadians don't know what day to celebrate Thanksgiving. Everyone knows its the third Thursday in November.
this made me LOL
Hello. I'm still here though I can't get into my old account for anything...
It's been 5 years. I found a few of the current threads of people I remember from when it all began and you've mostly moved on and done new things... And here I am, still living with my MLC.
We've been around the rollercoaster a bunch of times and I've thought we were piecing...
The pandemic has been awful and also good. My 15 year old daughter, like so many, developed anorexia and became suicidal. My relationship with my MLC, once the most important thing, I had nothing left to care. And yet spending every day together, side by side, and him seeing the mountains I would climb to keep kiddo safe seemed to improve our relationship and earn his respect.
And also I became so fed up at times. I've stayed because I was afraid of being alone, handling a crisis on my own... And, you know, he helped some but also he became like ostrich and stuck his head in the sand a lot... And I was alone while next to someone and my contempt was hard to restrain at times.
And still. He sleeps in my room again. Oh sure, once a week and on an air mattress and I've asked for this for such a long time. And I care and I don't. I'm tired. Sometimes I wish I had just called it quits but also there has been so much growth and so much change... Ownit, if you're still here and I saw that you were, I think about you describing staying with your father until his last breath.... It's like that. There is still life here.
I've moved on and also I haven't.
Ex/om and I have really repaired our relationship. He stepped up, and we became good teammates again. I'll take it.
Hello. I'm still here though I can't get into my old account for anything...
It's been 5 years. I found a few of the current threads of people I remember from when it all began and you've mostly moved on and done new things... And here I am, still living with my MLC.
We've been around the rollercoaster a bunch of times and I've thought we were piecing...
The pandemic has been awful and also good. My 15 year old daughter, like so many, developed anorexia and became suicidal. My relationship with my MLC, once the most important thing, I had nothing left to care. And yet spending every day together, side by side, and him seeing the mountains I would climb to keep kiddo safe seemed to improve our relationship and earn his respect.
And also I became so fed up at times. I've stayed because I was afraid of being alone, handling a crisis on my own... And, you know, he helped some but also he became like ostrich and stuck his head in the sand a lot... And I was alone while next to someone and my contempt was hard to restrain at times.
And still. He sleeps in my room again. Oh sure, once a week and on an air mattress and I've asked for this for such a long time. And I care and I don't. I'm tired. Sometimes I wish I had just called it quits but also there has been so much growth and so much change... Ownit, if you're still here and I saw that you were, I think about you describing staying with your father until his last breath.... It's like that. There is still life here.
I've moved on and also I haven't.
Ex/om and I have really repaired our relationship. He stepped up, and we became good teammates again. I'll take it.
Sorry you can't get on your old account - it may be the system, but there used to be a forgot your password function.
This new account is on moderation, have patience
There is a forgot password one, but it doesn't actually send the password. I emailed Virginia but I think she just requested the password to be sent in the same way
This is a diary entry/journal for friends I keep and thought I'd share here. Written a few weeks ago. I actually think we're going to make it out of this together...
The seeds of the bomb drop took root April 2015 when I had to be admitted to hospital and I needed care and mlc felt trapped.
So here we are... Just over 5 years past the bomb drop with unexplained abdominal pain, testing, no explanation. Last night, suddenly, I collapsed with nausea... A red flag my doctor warned me to mean I needed to immediately present to emerg for fear of burst appendix. I didn't want to go emerg and I knew I "should".
As I struggled with the decision, mlc packed a bag for me. Food. Diet cokes. Warm socks. The laptop with new games he thought I'd like. Said he would go with me, if I needed him to, but he was nervous about leaving d16 k
(who has had a rough time.mental health wise in the pandemic and yes mlc stepped the [censored] up) alone... We're not on red alert anymore, but I'm not ready to leave her alone either.
"I'll go in the morning," I said. Regretting missing work, especially now with a new boss who I worry doesn't like me.
I sniffled and let a couple of tears escape... The body memory of what the last need for hospital triggered. Stuff that was already rumbling and yet I had no idea.
"That's where it began," I cried.
He nodded. He didn't defend or push back or shoulders up. He nodded. Let it sink in.
"Yeah. And we are in such a better place now." He said.
I responded, "I believe you'd come and you would barely resent it at all."
He laughed.
I went to the kitchen to feeling-eat a bowl of chips.
As I stood up, he said, " I'm going to start an episode of the Black list at 9:40 even though I'm exhausted. That's how much I love you."
I stopped. Mid step. He hadn't said that explicitly in 5 years. I looked at him... Probably questioning eyebrows and panic and hope and terror all bundled into one flash of emotion across my face.
"Yeah. I said that. That's what I said. And no we can't talk about it and I need you to pretend you didn't hear it for a bit but I definitely said it."
So I laughed. And stress ate. And he turned on the TV and I promptly fell asleep in his lap.
And I need to forgive myself. I wanted this hope so desperately, and now that I have it, I berate myself for staying and accepting these crumbs. If I'd left, I would have berated myself for not trying harder.
I think we're going to come out of this loving deeper. I remind myself this was always our path, from the moment we met and our oppositional traumas locked into one another. We always faced this struggle. I've never regretted falling in love with him.
I affirm my own values of deeply committing to humans, all of us so fundamentally flawed.
A few weeks until 25 years of marriage. Wild, isn't it?
There is a bottle of cider in the basement. The last bottle of the batch we were given as a wedding present by his parents. I remember it being delicious.
We plan to take a weekend somewhere and drink that cider... Or open it anyway. See how much it's changed in 25 years. Will it be terribly soured and ruined or simply changed, as we have?
I haven't followed your situation, so I'll need to do some catching up, but....
This post brings me joy!!
Thank you for the update! This forum needs more success stories!
I also hope your health improves and you feel better soon!
El
An update...
I arrived here some 6 years ago and found the MLC forums and it was describing everything I was experiencing. I read the new people news, and I thought 5 to 7 years for my husband to return to human status. That's too long. We'll be faster. I got this.
I've thought we were piecing before, and I got myself smashed in the face with the shards of broken hope when he got overwhelmed, hit me in the jugular, shut down and asked me how many times he was going to have to tell me he was done with this marriage.
But he never moved out.
Two days ago, he brought me out with him to a rock cliff to show me how to rappel down the face of it. He turns rock cliffs into useable climbs for rock climbers. He's taken leadership role in the local rock climbing community. Even made the news for his efforts to make sure new outdoor climbers, a surging population, in the pandemic didn't injure themselves and could find mentors. He invited me to come scrub rock (take the moss and growth off so it can be climbed), so I could see what the work entailed. As we drove the hour to the cliff, he told me his plan to support me and help me manage the inevitable fear of a trusting a rope go lower myself over a cliff. Earlier memories, from way before the bomb drop, bubbled up as I remembered him drilling me to improve my scuba skills and his lack of care left me with a serious ear injury. The difference between his thoughtfulness back then as mylo ing husband and now, as my MLC spouse who has done actually incredible growth worth... I started crying and trying to breathe to come.back to center. I stiffen and I know he knows.
"Crap!". I thought. "I'm having BIG FEELINGS. Surefire was to ruin the day. Stop it, stop if, stop it.". Year of trying to be the reformed Lbs spouse screaming at me internally that this is against the rules. I'm way more terrified of his shut down reaction to my big feelings than I am at rock cliff.
Almost caught my breath, he says, "you know why I haven't gotten to the (various house chores post a recent renovation). It's because I'm getting all our scuba gear organized so we can go diving."
My favorite thing. The thing I also associate with the best years of our marriage.
So I lose the battle with hiding my emotions and I just sob. Bent over my lap in the car and sob.
I also feel the fear.. that fear of letting my guard down. And I feel so much empathy for him too. This is my fear of fully rekindling our relationship, and he's so much more afraid than me.
I put my hand on his shoulder, intending to reassure him and he seems to wiggle out from it.
"Was that a wiggle away?".
"I'm driving and I'm trying to manage my own emotions."
"It's okay. I just need to know what it is, so I can respond appropriately."
We sleep together two nights a week. There is hugging and I can now touch him affectionately without freaking out. There has been no kissing, nothing like that. He makes statements now about being committed to coming back and part of me knows we are still years away and wishes I'd left. Friends have gotten divorced and remarried in these years.
Most of me is glad. He is truly actually deeply a better, more loving human than I married. I'm so proud of him and of us.
But 6 years in. I couldn't counsel new folks that it's worth it.
I'm a therapist and a great one, and I couldn't speed this along. There are no shortcuts.
no. the only shortcut is straight on through.
{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}
It's time for the annual ish post, I guess?
Things are good. My MLC is a better man than I married. I remember reading about that possibility, and I held on to that hope during.the very bad times. And, while it might be like winning the lottery, turns out it's also true.
He has grown so much, and so have I. We are slowly, so slowly,.piecing this marriage back together. What's different is that i believe.it... I believe that we will keep going on this same direction and that we will continue to have increasing emotional and physical intimacy and relational security.
I followed the plan.
I did my work.
It was so hard.
And now I have to work on forgiving myself.for tolerating the abuse. One step at a time.
Being an LBS is tender. Being an LBS in repair is even more so.
May your your journeys be gentle.