Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: OC_Hope Trying to do the right thing... - 06/08/17 04:30 PM
Thanks Job for the prodding...

I've been reading here for almost a year and this is my first post.

On May 22nd of last year (2016), my wife dropped the bomb by showing up in Vegas sans wedding ring. She came back saying she didn't know if she wanted to be married to me anymore.

This carried on for a month until it finally came out that she wanted a divorce. Running up to this was the typical clues that are obvious now... Losing weight, working out, creating new friends, going out without me... all hindsight 20/20 stuff. Ugh!

Everything went really fast once she came home one night after a late night binge. She had scuffed the brand new sports car she had just bought a week earlier on a parking post as she drove home drunk. I found a pair of receipts from another man, one crumpled on the passenger side floor, the other in her purse – and the inside of the car had all the clues of hanky panky.

I took the kids away immediately the next day to see their grandparents for the Fourth of July weekend and gave her a week to have some "space."

When I came back, she went straight to divorce, getting her own place and grabbing the very best of what was in the house, leaving me with all the mismatched furniture, kitchenware and all of her personal items at home.

She's always been meticulous about cherishing sentimental items - letters, cards, baby clothes & toys from her childhood and our three kids. Leaving them all behind was clearly odd and unsettling. Even now, she seems to be having trouble recalling recent memories about the kids.

At one point last Sept, she sent me a text saying she thought I was a good Dad and grateful to have me, but she was a horrible mom. She dropped the kids that afternoon and we didn't see her again for two months.

The reason she returned had been due to a scary car accident that she still can't seem to tell a straight story about. Since that scare, she's gradually tried to reacquaint herself with the kids and repair the abandoned relationship. The Teenagers are still leery of her efforts which have been inconsistent, but she is trying really hard to make up for it.

Just recently I decided it would be financially necessary for me to give up my apartment and move in with my brother in another state for a few months and squirrel away some money to pay down debt from the divorce (She signed away physical custody of our three kids in January, so I'm relatively free to go). The original plan was we'd come back for the following school year so our eldest daughter could finish her last year in high school.

About a month ago, W started to communicate wanting to come back to the family. She indicated she wanted to come with us, but instead of returning, to actually stay there and start over as a family. I welcomed the idea and started to make plans, even delaying my departure a month to make sure we had some time to reconnect... looking back, this only seemed to frighten her off as it became all too real.

To make things more complicated, I began to become impatient as she would not break up with her OM to spend more time with the kids and I before leaving. Now she's back with the OM and is talking about custody arrangements again while she keeps going with her new life. My guess is she believes that would be easier than having to do the work involved with starting over with us.

I feel like all of my patience and kindness has just vaporized as I became insanely jealous and pushy as frustration took over. Now she's scheduled to see a lawyer and I fear she's going to try to take me to court and make an attempt at an emergency stop to prevent the kids and me from leaving the state.

I don't know what to do now. I've already broken my lease and financially extended in anticipation of the move. If she's somehow able to prevent me from going, I'm not in a place to reestablish a place here right away and won't have a place to take the kids.

My other worry is if the kids and I do get to leave, she's going to get even more embedded with the OM. He's already controlling having helped her destroy all of the support she had with her family and friends who no longer want to deal with her and the OM. I know she's lonely and this new guy is all she has left if we leave.

I'm scared. I'm angry at myself for getting excited so quickly.

My gut says I should just go to 180 and do absolutely nothing, go to brother's place as planned, and let her do whatever she's going to do – Someone please tell me I'm doing the right thing or if I'm being stupid!
Posted By: job Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 06/09/17 04:04 AM
Welcome to the MLC Forum. You will meet people who are at various stages of dealing w/the fallout of their spouses being MIA. I am going to post below, Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read the links and then come back and ask questions, if you should have any.

Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________
Me-63, D30,S29
Posted By: job Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 06/09/17 04:09 AM
OC,

The only person that you can control is yourself. You didn't break her, nor can you fix her. She's going to do whatever it takes to ease the internal pain that she is experiencing. You will need to dig deep for patience and understand that this is not a sprint, but a marathon. It will take many months, even years before she comes to realize what she's done or lost. Some don't ever wake up and others...well...let's say that the LBS may have moved on w/his/her life and no longer wants the MLCer back.

I would go to your brother's place as planned and live your life the fullest. There's nothing you can do to change her mind and the more you attempt to do so, the more she's going to pull away and say that you are trying to either control her or manipulate her into doing what you want. Sometimes, doing nothing is actually doing something. Learn to sit quietly and the answers will come. Stock up on shovels for digging for patience and continue to post. Others will be along shortly to offer advice/assistance.
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 06/09/17 11:05 AM
Get some legal advice, but it seems to me that if you are divorced, and she signed away physical custody, and you have a legitimate financial need to move, I would just do it and let her pursue you afterwards. (I'm assuming you have a job that you can easily move locations for?) She's unlikely to win. And it will take time for her to pursue it if you have already moved. Maybe as long as you were planning to stay there anyway.

I'm sorry about the divorce debt. Check out the Mr. Money Mustache website to get inspired about paying down debt and getting financially squared away.

Sorry too about the touch-and-go. It's rotten to get your hopes up and then have them fall away again. Best advice is to just get along with your life putting your kids and your own needs first. Let her have her experience. Get busy living life. If she ever comes around to her senses, you can decide THEN whether reconciliation is something you want to do. But for now just get out and live life. (Check Irish's thread on the MLC forum for an example of a man doing a great job raising his daughters with an absent WAW.)
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/25/17 04:39 PM
Thank you guys for the encouragement. I'm writing you today from that very state I went to visit. Last month I decided there wasn't much to go back too, so I rented a new place and moved our stuff here. Unfortunately, my eldest daughter decided she wanted to finish her last year back home, so she did not stay. My two boys stayed with me.

I offered to fly my XW her over the summer and she has canceled her ticket three times, hasn't seen the boys since mid-June. In the time I've been here she's sent me several texts and calls wanted to figure out her steps back to her marriage, asking me to show her the way.

I've been reluctant to tell her anything as I've felt this is more of the same from when I lived there. It's like I think if I give her any direction and things don't work out just the way I tell her, then she's going to blame me for all of it.

To add another layer of complexity, I learned from my daughter that my XW is still seeing the OM even though she's adamant they've broken up when just three weeks ago she went to Mexico with him.

I get the sense we're in a stalemate. She cries and tells me she misses us, yet she shows little follow through or displays few classical instances of sincerity when making changes or pursuing. It's all like a big "anchor check" where she's checking in to see if I'm emotionally open and then runs back to her OM.

Add to that, she stated this week she's overdrawn and asked if I would bail her out again as a loan against her spousal support. This time I stood my ground and said "no."

She didn't like that but later apologized for even asking for money. Her work has been sparse, and what she hasn't realized yet is in our last agreement, she is expected to start paying for half of the kid's expenses next month.

My concern is she's running short on cash and so all of these emotional attempts are meant to manipulate my emotions to get me to bend... on the other hand, she could also be reaching out to escape the financial strain and her OM, instead wanting me to rescue her – he's been in and out of court the last year for counts of battery and false imprisonment of his last wife. She's told me he does similar things to her... He's a real gem.

Anyway. I'm getting settled in my new home, have kids enrolled in school, and my goal is to do my best to detach from her drama and let her start to cope with life on life's terms. If she really needs to have a second childhood, it doesn't need to be all on my dime.

I guess I'm just nervous I might be doing the wrong thing. Is this what I should be doing? How am I to tell when she's playing me and when she's absolutely sincere about rebuilding our lives together?

How to tell the difference?
Posted By: OwnIt Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/26/17 01:13 AM
Let her focus on her crazy and you keep yourself and the kids away safe from her drama. Assuming you don't have to have her consent to leave the jurisdiction, I think you should stay put with the kids and if she ever gets herself together and makes the right steps forward, she probably knows how to find you.

I wouldn't assume manipulation. I just have to believe the disappearing from the kids act is harder on the moms. I'm sure that the pulling away from this addictive and escapist life is difficult and it will take her many missteps before she can do it. Just stop trying to be the life preserver for anyone but your kids.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/26/17 03:58 AM
In my heart, I know you're right OwnIt.

W signed away physical custody earlier this year and the court accepted it over the summer. That said, W had attempted to restore her relationship with kids spending a few days a week with them (and one weekend a month), however, the teenagers are old enough that they saw right through the efforts as being about her and not them.

My daughter decided to stay there with her mom to finish High School - and she likes going to her therapist. Not sure how long all that's going to last, but if things get weird I have every right to go pull her out and bring her here.

As for the crazy... Yea. I just have to stop falling into the emotions of her texts and calls... Yesterday I sent an email to suggest we create a new stipulation as we have different custody arrangements now. With it, I'm insisting she starts to pay for half of the kid's expenses (which she ceased doing last Sept).

Every time I've attempted to do this in the past, she goes into complete meltdown saying she doesn't have any money – somehow she can still afford new clothes, hair extensions, eye lashes, nails, trip to Mexico with OM and going out a couple times each week, but whatevs...

Curiously, this morning I got a text with just a baby picture of our youngest from 5 years ago... no emotional flooding, no flaming, nothing, not even words. Might it be safe to assume she hasn't read my email yet? LOL

In any case, you're right. I just need to take my focus off of what and why she does what she's doing, and stay focused on these kids.
Posted By: Cadet Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/31/17 04:40 AM
Bump
Posted By: job Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 09/05/17 08:03 AM
OC,

I attempted to merge your new thread with this one and your new thread has disappeared. I am so sorry!

Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. In the meantime, I'm going to search for your latest thread again and attempt to merge it with this one if I can locate it.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 09/07/17 12:22 AM
Okay - thank you Job. frown
Posted By: job Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 09/07/17 01:39 AM
OC,
I contacted the administrator as soon as it happened and she can't locate the thread. It is my understanding that this has happened to another moderator in the past. Again, I am so sorry.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 09/13/17 07:57 AM
Well... it's been an interesting couple of weeks.

XW blew up after I removed about $400 of expenses from her support checks this month (she hasn't contributed anything to the kid's child care, insurance, phones or allowances since this time last year). She went to FB and threw me under the bus to friends and family.

I blocked her on FB and texts.

Couple days later she buys a plane ticket to come here without giving me a head's up first. She arrives tomorrow with our daughter.

Add to this... 48 hours ago she sends an apparent suicide letter to a friend saying the pain and anguish she feels is too much to bare. She misses her little family, but it's too late. It's too late to have them back. She blames herself. And she's sorry. But it might be time to end it all...

I asked this friend to call the police and forward the message to her Dad. Officers arrived, offered to take her to the hospital for evaluation and she refused to go. Instead, she went to consult with a lawyer in an attempt to garnish my wages for support (which is my fault because I've always given her more than what the state required, but now I'm doing it letter of the law and it's much less).

Her family went to her place last night and tried to be helpful. She clearly appears genuinely sad & depressed. According to her sister, she wants to reconcile, but when she talks to me she has every excuse for why it can't work right now.

So today we talk for the first time since I blocked her (Sept 2nd). I was thinking it was going to be a conversation about her trip out here tomorrow and the suicide letter, but instead, it blew up into me leaving the state, not caring about her or giving her enough money, and that I abandoned our daughter by moving away.

So it's really hard to tell what the real story is here.

For one, I don't know if she's wanting this because she's out of money or if she genuinely wants to return. And two, I need to shut up. I keep trying to correct her or defend myself... that's not helping anything, it only shows her I'm still stinging over everything she's done to us.

So here I am, multiple states away with two of our kids. She's in another state with our eldest. There's a lot of miles and hurts in between, yet she's going to be here tomorrow and already demanding the kids be pulled out of school to spend time with her.

Where do I even begin?
How do I know what's real?
Posted By: SBJ Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 09/13/17 09:10 AM
OC, I can only tell you that I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I am only a month out from signing my papers and it all still seems surreal.

As has been said on here before...believe none of what they say and only half of what they do when they are clearly still in MLC.

During my ordeal, I spoke with some of her family and friends...I know now that that is highly frowned upon, but during that time she would say, "If we are to work things out you have to stop talking to people". I took that as, she wanted to work things out. On the contrary, she was wanting to continue with the D, but didn't want anyone to know what was happening unless it came from her.

Sounds like she is in severe depression if she is talking suicide. Either that or she is seeking attention. Neither one is good and I would think that both reasons are cause for her getting counseling.

You are probably right as far as you zipping your lips. Sometimes they use everything you say against us and then have even more ammo later.

I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers over the next few days.
Posted By: roist Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 09/14/17 12:54 AM
I heard recently that when dealing with an angry person the best thing to do is not to join them on the theater stage. That analogy works on so many levels.

Don't argue with W. Don't defend your actions and don't make any big decisions. Tell her you will get back to her after reflection.

Maybe she wants to reconcile but doesn't believe it to be possible.Maybe it is horse shhit. At this stage she does not seem to be in a place where reconciliation is possible. Don't close the door to reconciliation but don't stand there holding it open either.

I personally would not pull the kids out of school on demand of someone imposing an unscheduled visit and making accusations.The OM is not the issue but until completely out of the picture, reconciliation cannot possibly happen. Don't insist that she breaks up with him (controlling) but state you won't be in a R with anyone who is involved with someone else (boundary).

Best of luck with the visit. I imagine it will be more about what she can get from you than anything else, but by being calm and strong you can influence the possibility of something more later.

Best wishes
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 09/18/17 03:39 AM
Thank you SBJ & Roist.

So... The weekend has not gone great. Had I kept to Roist suggestion to not defend myself or argue, I'd probably be in a better place.

She's used anything and everything that has happened this weekend against me. One minute she wants to be with me, the next she is vindictive, the next she's crying. It's all over the board.

On top of it all, she's still getting texts from the OM and her family trying to find out how things are going and putting pressure on her. None of it helps as it's all just pressure for her.

This morning it came out that she doesn't want to tell me what she really wants as she's afraid of what it might mean to her finances and access to the kids. I read that as this is not about restoring our relationship at all, this is about money.

To add further concerns, we took the kids shopping for school clothes last night, and for the most part, it was fine. We went into bass pro shop, and W blurted out that she was going to buy a Bass Pro Shop hat so she could scratch out the "B" – I was not amused – especially said in front of all our kids.

A few minutes later she goes to the bathroom with our youngest son and when they were finished, my son said he wanted to go see 'Dad' so he runs off, and she lets him. Next thing you know there's somebody paging W over the intercom to come to the front cashier. W just let our son run off without paying attention and he got lost in the store.

The moment we got him back she got defensive and angry at me saying that I was judging her as a horrible mother (which in my head I was)... but omg. Looking at bass pro trucker hats instead of watching your 5 yr old so?

It also came out that someone has been giving her their Xanax prescription. She drinks a lot on top of this, so this is especially concerning.

She has my 17 yr old staying with her as well - at what point do I notify her parents... Or step in and remove my daughter from the situation?

I'm completely beside myself.
Posted By: Gordie Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 10/09/17 02:49 AM
OC,

How are you doing? I am praying for you and your children. In terms of advice, I don’t know what to say. Your XW seems like a danger at least to herself. I would not feel comfortable leaving my child with her but understand d wanting to finish h s. Is there somewhere else she can stay, maybe with a friend?
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/06/17 01:09 PM
Thanks for checking in on me...

Lot's been going on, but the gist is three weeks ago, after a facetime call with my youngest son, my XW got really sad and proceeded to start drinking that morning. Hours later, she blacked out and says she woke up in handcuffs. Apparently, she was involved in a hit and run DWI with a BAC of 0.26

She called me scared and started apologizing about everything and seemed to be hitting rock bottom. I told her I was not here to rescue her and that she would have to call her Dad if she needed that kind of help, which reluctantly she did. He's hired her some hotshot lawyer to try and get her out of the charges.

She said she wants to reconcile, spoke to her lawyer to see if she could leave the state, and has made plans to shut down her apartment and prepare to move.

But since then, it seems every other day she's trying to figure out whether to come to the midwest with the boys and I, or move to her mom's house until our daughter finishes her last year of high school. It's hit and miss, up and down, she can't seem to commit which leads me to believe I'm being emotionally played.

I've been trying to be patient and not get too excited one way or the other, which she reads as me not wanting her back, which always ends with me reassuring her to the contrary... and then it would happen again.

I already paid for her power bill to keep it from getting turned off, but now I'm wondering if that was such a good idea now that I see she's been shopping and since then.

Work has me out west so I'm visiting daughter and XW – only now I've come to find out she's using her old boy friend's car (she took it this afternoon to have it appraised for his Insurance), so suddenly I'm realizing she is still seeing him. She is also texting quite a bit which leads me to believe there might be other guy friends too, but I'm trying (and probably foolishly), to give her the benefit of the doubt.

There's no manual here on how to receive an MLC back and I don't wanna mess this up. Anyone have any bright ideas?
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/13/17 02:35 PM
Well, I'm back home.

XW and D moved in with her mom over the weekend to cut her costs while she awaits the trial for her DWI hit and run.

I ended up buying my daughter a car so she wouldn't feel stranded at her grandmother's house. Found out XW returned her boyfriend's car and attempted to break up with him (so she says), however it didn't happen. So now she is sharing new car I got for my daughter so she can get around. :-|

She's also been sneaky turning off her friends view on FB so she can continue to talk to other men without me seeing what new friends guys she has added.

To keep this story short, I just don't think she's sincere about getting back together. She says and does whatever she can to get what she needs and then carries on her escapades. Now that her mom can watch my daughter, she's free to carry on.

Does she not want to be together, does she just need me to be close so she can take advantage? Am I wrong? Or is this normal?

I remember reading on HeartsBlessing's thread that the beginning of Acceptance reveals the "children" with flashes of her personalities surfacing, which sort of makes sense, but really how do I tell?

I'm just so flipping confused. So I put up with it? Do I stop talking about rebuilding the relationship and just go dark?

help.
Posted By: SBJ Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/13/17 03:26 PM
OC, I just want to let you know that I am following along. Unfortunately, I can't give any advice as I am just as lost as you. Prayers and thoughts for your situation.
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/13/17 03:39 PM
How is she driving daughter's car? Don't they suspend your license after a DWI? I'd tell daughter she's absolutely not allowed to drive the car.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/14/17 03:00 AM
KML -
Yes, they took her drivers license but she still gets a temporary license which is good for 30 days and allows her to drive until the DMV formally suspends the license. The DMV hearing is in late December.

Her first court appearance will be later this month, which she will then find what the state is going to go after. Because there was a minor injury to the other driver and her blood alcohol count was super high (.26), I'm not sure how the lawyer will to get away with lowering some of these penalties:

Felony hit and run (involving an injury or death) include:
[list]
[*]$1,000 to $10,000 in fines [misdemeanor up to $1,000 in fines]
[*]Up to 1 year in county jail if the accident caused a minor injury [misdemeanor up to 6 months in county jail][i]

First Offense DUI
[list]
[*]License suspension of 4 months or longer
[*]Up to 6 months in jail
[*]Fines and fees of up to $3,600 dollars [i](Total cost can range up to $15,649)

[*]3 months of DUI school
[*]Possible installation of an ignition interlock device on your vehicle
[*]3-5 years DUI probation

This is going to be expensive, but less than that, I'm really hoping she will serve a little time if for no other reason than to meet life on life's terms, reflect on what's happened and decide what's truly important for her life going forward.

My prayer is that her heart be flooded with light, to make her intelligent and discerning in knowing Him personally, so that her eyes are focused and clear so she can see something of the future He has called her to share –– and that she will begin to understand the immensity of His power who is able to help us with endless energy, boundless strength if we would just trust and believe Him at His word.
Posted By: Gordie Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/14/17 11:11 AM
OC,

I’m so sorry for you and your kids. As an observer, I think you need to keep your distance. I do think she is using you and your goodwill for money. I know it’s hard to see her struggle, so do your best to not watch her train wreck. Your d Sees the day to day. How is she coping? Agree XW should not be using your d’s car. How are the boys?
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/16/17 11:34 AM
Thx Gordie – Boys are doing well. Just had a celebratory Thanksgiving school lunch with the youngest today. Eldest boy is getting by fine, but he's applied for a local STEM school to study coding and was accepted to transfer over at the semester break.

As for D, spoke to her therapist today. She's cutting herself again.

The therapist had tried to reach out to xW and ask her to take D to an outpatient treatment program as well as schedule a psychiatrist to consider meds for her....

Moments later I get a call from xW saying she just spoke to D’s therapist and the therapist may be calling me next, but not to believe anything she says as xW believes, “Her and D are out to get her.” xW was really working herself up and then said she’s sick of D's s**t and is ready to ship her off, “call 5150 and never let her get out” (that’s a psych evaluation call in CA)

Sure enough, the therapist called me back shortly thereafter to say she can no longer work with D's mom if she's going to be hostile and uncooperative.

We discussed even having her refer D to another therapist, but we both agree that xW is probably going to treat the next therapist the same way, if not worse - and forget thinking she's going to get our D to a psychiatrist either. It's been three months and she's not completed that task yet.

I told the therapist I have a plan to go get D and bring her here, enroll her in the same project-based learning school as her brother. It's close to home, and they have an art focussed track as well (which is my D's passion).

The therapist said she’s not ready to say, “yes, do THAT!” However, she did agree that it sounds ideal for D.

I've reached out to her current school, received her transcripts and forwarded those to the principal at the new school for review. Should know by tomorrow what credits will transfer or not.

D has her driver's test next week, so I need her to pass that test and pass that driver's license there. Otherwise, she will have to start the permit process all over again when she gets out here.

Thing is, there are only about 5 weeks left in the semester, so not an ideal time to make a switch. While holding out till then might sound like a better plan, educationally speaking, it's not really her education I'm giving much thought to right now.
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/16/17 04:28 PM
Wow, sorry to hear that.
Do you have an idea why she's cutting?
Some common triggers:
Eating disorders
Having been victim of sexual abuse
Issues of gender or sexual orientation

Certainly, just having to live with an MLC mom could be enough, but don't miss those other issues if they're present.

You're a good dad. Do whatever it takes to be there for your D.
Posted By: OwnIt Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/17/17 04:49 AM
My S (14) has done some cutting. He acknowledges that it is a result of what has gone on with his father. He assures me that he is past it now and I have not seen any further evidence of it.

When I told my H, a physician, he said he would see S in two weeks (his lives 50 min away). He ended up having to come that night because of a medical emergency I had. He did not look at S's arm or talk to him about it. During the only discussion of note we've had since he left I challenged him on this when he claimed he was a good father and should have S full time (ha ha). He said that it didn't seem like S wanted him to look at it or talk to him about it.

In my experience, my H cannot deal with any conversation in which problems the kids are having is raised. I believe he knows he is responsible for these things but can't deal with it and pushes it as far away from himself as he can, usually hiding behind rage and monster. I have stopped trying to communicate with him about anything concerning the children. It simply isn't worth it. He will not help, he becomes nasty to me, he retreats further from the children, and obviously it causes him some kind of psychic trauma.

It is awful to have to go through this, but it does get better with time. I can see the life returning to my children and can see them rebounding. I sent my S to a wolf tracking camp this summer that did wonders for him emotionally. Next summer I'm sending him on a program designed for people dealing with trust issues where he will learn to sail for more than 20 days.

The children's counselor told me on day 1 that how they did would largely be determined by how well I did. I wasn't ready to hear that because I was such a mess. A little over a year later, I fully accept it and see that the greatest gift I can give my children is to be happy, fulfilled, to live in the moment, to focus on the things I have in my life rather than the things I don't, and to let the damage this man has done be something that lives only in the past.
Posted By: Gordie Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 11/17/17 04:59 AM
Originally Posted By: OwnIt


The children's counselor told me on day 1 that how they did would largely be determined by how well I did. I wasn't ready to hear that because I was such a mess. A little over a year later, I fully accept it and see that the greatest gift I can give my children is to be happy, fulfilled, to live in the moment, to focus on the things I have in my life rather than the things I don't, and to let the damage this man has done be something that lives only in the past.



Wow, that’s powerful.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/14/18 07:43 AM
well... I suppose it's time for an update.

First off, thank you to OwnIt - what your counselor told you is so true. I've experienced this first hand.

So the holidays came and went and W continued to tell our sons she was coming for the holidays, but never followed through – All the while, feeding me pledges of wishing to fix our family and considerations for moving out here to live with us, saying she loved me and misses her best friend.

On Christmas Eve, she brought the OM to her mom's place and did Facetime with my youngest late on Christmas Day from a train station heading out to who knows where. Turns out, she's still with OM and never left him. What a liar!?!?

My boys were crushed that she never came out.

In January she called with a 24-hour notice to say she'd be coming out for two days to celebrate one of the boy's bdays (she's not seen either of them since September). Turns out her boyfriend bought her the ticket thinking it would cheer her up.

Wel, there was a snow storm and she ended up staying four days. We had some long talks, even got intimate at one point. Dumb me.

She went home pledging to pack her car and come back in a week or two. The next week she got some tests back from the doctor saying she had breast cancer.

I did all I could to make sure she could get out here, offer to help with gas money and spoke to social workers here to transfer her insurance for continued care (she has state insurance where she's at).

Nothing has changed. She finds another excuse each and every opportunity not to come out.

I'm beginning to understand what kind of vicious loop these MLCs seem to put us in, where they keep us close, but don't follow through.

I remember reading an article called "Total Detachment - Dropping the Emotional Rope" and wondering if this is the time to start stepping away?

I'm scared because we've had some seemingly real conversations where it appears she knows this whole thing has been about her and it's not something I caused. And she'll be kind from time to time to check up on me and be sweet, but then disappears on the weekends usually with the same old "bad-influence" friends who helped her get into trouble before.

The last two days I've been shorter in responding offering no explanation or details. Just simple answers.

Today she replies after my last short answer, "Okay, I get it. Loud and clear" with a thumbs up emoji.

Took less than 48 hours and she's already reacting.

Am I doing the right thing by pulling away?

I just know that I'm exhausted trying to get her to follow through on her words - mind you, I don't offer to help anymore or offer solutions. I just ask her questions about what she wants and what she should do about it. I'm not pushing or pulling, just leading as she replies.

But it's not changing anything, and I'm trying to be understanding. She has her surgery on the 22nd to remove the tumor (which is super small, they caught it early), and she also has an arraignment coming up for her DUI hit and run, which she does not have to be present for.

She could have cancer treatment here, go to therapy and rehab. Her lawyer could request her sentencing be transferred to this state to enforce as well. It's all doable.

But instead, she went out and got a new job there and continues to plod along... leading me on.

Am I being insensitive to her current plight and attempting to rescue her again? I think I am.

Is dropping the rope and leaving her to her own plight the right call right now? I feel like it is, but maybe I need a sanity check here.

help?
Posted By: MarvinF Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/14/18 08:17 AM
I am a relative newbie, but I read your thread and I am so sorry you are going through this. I am curious if you have not dropped the rope what exactly are you doing? Being dragged behind the out of control car because you are still tied to the bumper? How does this in any way help you prevent it from going off the edge of the cliff on a regular basis? I think it only makes you feel connected and in control but really just causes severe damage.

First and foremost if you are not detaching completely and dropping the rope how can you possibly heal, take care of yourself and your kids? I mean they already have a mother who is completely out of control, right?

Second if you take enough damage while you are trying to "fix her" you may find you have nothing left if and when the day comes where she finally wakes up and wants to repair your relationship. Trust me you may not realize it but all these events and hurts are slowly eroding your love for her, like acid. I know from experience (and believe me I detached lot more and much faster) that even now I am realizing how much damage I took over the past year and how much it has impacted my love for my wife. And she doesn't seem nearly half as bad nor has she done anything nearly as whiplash as from reading your story so far.

I hope you realize this is not meant as criticism or "obvious" statement, rather as a fellow traveler having a lot of empathy and trying to tell you, as counter intuitive as it may seem, dropping the rope and not rescuing her is EXACTLY how you help her rescue herself. Obviously she is still deeply tied to you and need something or find some form of relief/safety from you. But she seems to be using it to avoid confronting her demons.

Hang in there, take care of yourself first. Detach and heal, or there won't be much left of you or your relationship when the time comes and you do have to re-connect and re-build. Hope this helps.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/16/18 07:59 AM
Thank you MarvinF, I couldn't help but think of that scene from Vacation where the dog was leashed to the rear bumper... that's about the clearest and most accurate expression of what's happened thus far.

The stress, anxiety, sleeplessness and outright non-performance at work has gotten me to where I am today. Taking hydroxyzine and Prozac while living on the scraps of food stamps and unemployment.

I'm better than this.

Had to take a hard look at myself and realize this is not the life I want to lead for me or the example I set for the kids. I need to have my head in the game right now, so I can provide.

As for the dropping of the rope and not rescuing her being EXACTLY how I help her rescue herself, it's also EXACTLY what I need to do to rescue myself today.

This stuff is hard, but I'm learning... Just wish it had been a few months or a year faster! Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

At this very moment, my struggle is staying focused. It's been four months since I lost my job, and trying to apply for jobs or update my resume seem like monumental tasks at times. It's easier to make another sandwich or take another nap

Don't get me wrong, I've made some efforts... I've had some work opportunities sent my way, however, they required me to relocate out west again – I just can't fathom moving these kids again. They've been through too much.

SO... I'm asking for accountability here.

I'm updating my resume. I'm going to reach out to contacts and ask for help.

Can you guys stay on me? Help me stay the course?

anyway... I'm not having a great moment, just trying to overcome the depression that's seemingly crept up.
Posted By: MarvinF Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/16/18 10:08 AM
Listen I remember the struggle to focus on the simples tasks, not wanting to do anything, obsessively stuck in an emotional state of shock and trying to figure things out. We all have to find our way through this and it is a process.

But some of the best advice I got from experienced people is just focus on right now. Not five minutes, one week, one month, one year. Go minute by minute, day by day. Do little and big things to focus on yourself and work constantly to take focus off your spouse and what has happened. Exercise, eat well, have a routine, see friends, do things, doesn't matter if you feel like it. Sometimes you just do the things and it help. Yes I know it is very very hard. I picked things I have always loved and returned to them with a passion. It helped, not immediately but it was helping little by little and eventually I found they helped a lot.

You are probably very depressed, it is completely normal. If you can somehow go to your doctor and get medication to help in the short term. Anti depressants and if needed sleep aid. Sleep is important, get regular sleep, patterned sleep. It really alters mood. Walk, as much as you can. Exercise elevates mood and helps with motivation, doesn't have to be anything dramatic. Meet friends, family, support, don't isolate, do whatever it takes to get positive nurturing.

Post here, a lot, journal, vent. Others here all know what its like, what you are going through, we all understand and sympathize and care. We all are somewhere along this road. But I guarantee you we have all been where you are now.

Keep reading here and wherever you can to see you are not alone, this is not unique, it has nothing to do with you, and you can not fix it or help it. So you HAVE TO detach and heal. Go no contact or as much as possible, this is for you. Don't touch the hot stove by contacting, it will just hurt. It may go against all your instincts, but this situation is NOT normal, and the NORMAL approach doesn't work.

You have work to do, use this as a time of growth and healing and you may find that you come out stronger and better than when you went in. And this is both for you and for you to have ANY hope of ever rebuilding your marriage. Be a beacon, an example.

I know it all sounds like words, but these are words of wisdom I learned from others and have learned slowly the truth of them.
Posted By: DnJ Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/17/18 03:49 PM
MarvinF is right on the money ^^^^. Very good advice up there.

Something that really helped me - Knowing you are not alone. There are many caring and compassionate people here that truly understand what you are going through. Post, vent, and share - often - it really helps.

I found the sleeplessness made the stress and anxiety so much worse. Do try to get a proper amount of sleep, it makes a world of difference.

OC, I know this is difficult. Please know this does get better, you will be better.

Good luck on the job hunt.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/19/18 05:49 AM
Thank you guys – I'm hanging in there and trying to keep my chin up. Sleep has definitely not been my problem since taking hydroxyzine & 10mg of extended release melatonin. Now I'm probably sleeping too much! LOL - or just catching up on sleep, who knows, but it feels good.

It's been over a week now since I went dark on W. She noticed within 48 hours, but now she's doing the same back, so I have to stay on track and not stalk her or do anything else that makes me miss her.

Have some job interviews lined up this week, so that'll keep my mind occupied and I'm hopeful I can land something soon and get back on track financially.
Posted By: Gordie Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/19/18 06:02 AM
How is the job hunt?

How are the kids?
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/22/18 12:19 PM
Thanks for asking Gordie...

Kids are all doing really well at school, I'm super proud of them. My D seems to be in great spirits, as she did better than expected on her tests and got a new job scooping ice cream! (For the new reader, my D lives at her grandmother's house out west to finish High School). Last night she asked me if it would okay if she could drive her car out and stay with us for the summer after she graduates high school. Of course, I'm thrilled she asked, but I couldn't show her I was too excited wink Today D is at the hospital for W's breast cancer surgery to remove the tumor. She said her mom was really nervous all day yesterday.

My youngest S misses W, and every day he asks about her. Yesterday he told me he was mad at mom for taking her wedding ring off. Said he wants her to be here with "Sissy," so we can be a family again. frown His mom keeps saying she's going to see him soon, and the other night asked him to put a bookmark in his book at bedtime so she could read him the rest when she comes here. mad That's not helping his abandonment issues at all!

My teenage S, well he's cleaned his room up without asking and has kept it that way for several weeks now. He also did his laundry and gave me boxes to put in the attic of things he doesn't need. And last week there was a dance at school. He's usually anti-people as he's a bit on the spectrum for Asperger's, but that day he came home, took a shower, dressed up nice and went! Even came home when he said he would... I'm so proud of him.

As for the work situation...

Have a number of interviews this week and next, some are quite promising and will allow me to work remotely. The one I really want is for a very large company and will take a while to pan out. It'd be the most lucrative, but I'm not going to sit around waiting.

Likely what I'll do is to offer to work on a contract basis for 60 days at two companies part-time, see which one feels like the best fit. One is based out of Europe, the other on the west coast, so time zones would allow me to make that a reality.

We shall see.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/23/18 04:43 AM
Yesterday W had her breast cancer surgery - the tumor was removed and the biopsy from her lymph nodes came up negative, so she's in the clear. Thank God

My FIL checked up on me last night to see how the kids and I were doing. He hasn't seen them for a long time. I gave him the scoop and told him that I had stopped talking to his daughter. He encouraged me to keep doing that, to work on myself and become whole in heart.

Then he explained how much better his new marriage has become for him, and while he regretted jumping into it too soon after his divorce from W's mother, he's discovered a love that he never knew before. [her mom had an MLC about twenty years ago, but stayed pretty much in perpetual teenager mode ever since]

I was a bit confused as he's always been positive about reconciliation for our marriage, so I asked him if he was encouraging me to give up on his daughter. He said yes. That as far as he could tell, his daughter has chosen to go down the same path her mother did all those years ago.

That's taken me for a bit of a loop honestly.

So I'm a bit confused what to do now - I still love her and want to remain committed to believing we can get through this MLC and be happy on the other side.

The timing of me choosing to essentially go dark on my W three weeks ago is probably not great. You see, after many months of her confessing her love for us and saying all the right things about reconciling and getting help, nothing really changed. Her actions did not match her words and I was getting considerably frustrated to the point of calling her out on several occasions, and more than likely frightened her off a bit. It's just that I had just had enough of the runaround and was emotionally spinning.

So then yesterday comes... She started giving me text updates about the status of her surgery. I was friendly and made some jokes, got her to laugh. This has been the first we've interacted with each other about anything then that kids-related stuff since I went dark

She's going to be recovering for a few days and I want to be compassionate about her situation. Like, should I encourage her, or check in to see how she's doing? Do I leave it to her to reach out for whatever?

Add to all of this, as part of the 180, I've been considering blocking her on FB and Instagram, however, this is a delicate situation in her current condition and she may see such an action as an outright rejection of her in this critical time of recovery.

I haven't had great will power about snooping on her new FB friends, etc (I know, I know), so what are my alternatives?

My gut says I should just go dark on all social, delete the apps off my phone and leave it to her to wonder why I'm not posting anything. This would be really weird for me to do as I'm a bit of a documentarian of all our children's activities and all. It would leave her puzzled I'm sure, but if I commit to this, then I know it's going to be tempting to take a peek once in a while.

If I can stay strong for a couple weeks, the plan would be to send her a handwritten letter letting her know I'll be removing her from my social accounts. The letter would likely follow a similar pattern that was laid out by a former MLC'r I read on the boards here:

Originally Posted By: LanceSijan
So, my suggestion would be to stop chasing and checking and reassuring him that the anchor is still holding solid. Quit making the movie more dramatic and exciting. Tell him:

That you want to work on the marriage, that you can forgive him and take him back but starting today your life is about you and not about his movie. You can't be sure where this decision will lead you but you need more than hopes and dreams that things will be the way they were. You are very sad and you feel very sorry for him and hope that he will be OK but you have had enough and you can't let this situation ruin two lives. If he comes to his senses and wants to be with you then you hope that happens before your life takes a new direction and the door closes. You are not going to live in the past and you are prepared to move on without him.

Then live your life as if he may not come back. Believe it, don't play it: he may not come back. If he doesn't then how will that be any worse than what you are living now? On the other hand, if he feels the danger like I did, he may be smacked back into reality. Depending on when that happens and where you are with your life you can make a decision at that time as to what you want to do.


I dunno if this is the best way to handle this, or just remain silent and skip any kind of letter writing...

Anyway... I know I've rambled a bit but any advice would be welcomed at this point.
Posted By: Gordie Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/23/18 05:43 AM
Do what works. Seems like going dark has been better for you. So why change what you are doing?

Your FIL’s advice? It’s a data point. Don’t let it spin you. Only you can decide what you want and what is right for you. And if you don’t know. Pause. What’s the rush? Bonus: you can change your mind.

She’s recovering and you want to be nice. Okay. But she fired you as H. Be kind as you would to a distant relative. Kind is always okay.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/23/18 07:24 AM
So no letter. Don't reach out. No more social posts... just go totally radio silent.

Unless she reaches out, then be kind to her as if she were my adopted 5th cousin, twice removed.

got it.
Posted By: peacetoday Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/23/18 09:59 AM
Ive just read your last few posts
I honestly don't know how to handle it but wanted to say I think you are doing great-

Interesting how FIL encouraged you to move on-and good to hear he has found a better life and adjusted-

Must be hard for him to relive the whole thing again-

It does seem to be genetic in some ways and my XHs father also had MLC and M a younger woman-although no one really talked about it-and I never met his dad or spoke to him although he was alive for the first 5 years of our M

The answers will come and doing nothing is ok until you know-
Hang in there
Posted By: Vapo Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/25/18 11:35 PM
Stop trying to get into her head and trying to guess what she's thinking. You have your own business to take care of, so let her take care of her. No letter, none. Do what is best for your sanity, and trust me, snooping after her is not best for your sanity, heck, it's not even remotely good for your sanity.

If it were me,'I'd un-friend her from the social media. But given the circumstances, I would at least unfollow her so that her notices do not show up on your wall.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 06/28/19 06:01 PM
So it's been ages since my last update... A heckuva lot has happened.

Long story short, W wants to come back. She booked a flight for July 9th and says, "I'm willing to leave everything behind, I miss my kids so much." She's only seen the boys three time in the last two years and her last visit with them was June of last year.

Anyone have advice on how to re-integrate an ex-wife returning home after three years in MLC?
Posted By: peacetoday Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 06/28/19 07:03 PM
wow that is huge news


I seriously don't have a clue how to piece…but others will chime in shortly

I would go slow to make sure her motives are genuine and think about counseling

maybe check out the piecing forum to get some help and suggestions

Most of all continue your self care and since you have some time before she actually gets home, continue to research and soul search
Im sure your sons will also have a lot to work through
you want to be prepared for anything because some of them don't seem to make it to the other side of this
even though she is saying it-
you will need to see her actions-just my opinion
and all the best to you!
keep us posted
follow your gut-
Posted By: job Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 06/28/19 07:35 PM
Try to remember to give her plenty of space and also....this is a new relationship. The old marriage is gone/dead. Learn to listen and only offer up your comments/advice when she asks for them.
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 06/28/19 11:35 PM
Go slow and make her do the work! Don't take her back until she's proven herself. If she wants to get back together with you, she needs to be in therapy to figure out why she did what she did, needs to be 100% transparent, needs to keep her obligations to the kids etc.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 07/01/19 05:36 PM
As always, thank you guys –

Unfortunately, taking it slow is going to be awkward as she'd be moving back in at the same time. Perhaps have her sleep in another room (with my son) for some time until she feels more comfortable (or I FEEL more comfortable)?

She has indicated she wants to see a therapist, and that should be fairly easy to get her going on medicare to cover that in this state.

I agree with Job & peacetoday, this is something entirely new. It's going to be super awkward, but as long as she's committed to putting in the work, I'll be more convinced her intentions are pure.

Two new data points:

1) OM beat her up after he found out she was talking to me. She sent a photo of herself with a black eye and small cut under the same eye.

2) Strangely enough, the OM bought the ticket for her as she pleaded to see her kids. She had points to get her own flight, but it seems she's using the OM to get here. **shrug**

I'm just going to stay the course and not react to anything she's telling me. It should be much more clear where she's at once she gets here and not via text messages.

Is this the right approach or should I be looking at these items as "red flags"?
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 07/30/19 04:37 PM
Well.... things didn't happen the way I thought they might.

XW arrived, spent one day with our youngest son, and left the next day. We had a good visit, it was light, and we laughed a lot. I thought things were going really well, but then I didn't hug her goodbye and I could tell she wasn't okay with that.

She hasn't contacted me since until today she sent me a song and wrote me a text asking if I would consider letting her have him in California. I told her she can call and discuss, but the answer is going to be a big nope.

As for the song, it was called 'Hero' by Maren Morris

On paper we go together
I know that we look the part
But almost never hangs on forever
I know I'm breaking your heart

So go on, say what you want to
I'm not gonna stop you
You can blame it all on me

I'm not the hero in the story
I'm not the girl that gets the glory
'Cause you're looking for true love
And I'm not the one
But I wish, but I wish I was

Hmm, I wish, oh I wish I was
Hmm
Wish I could feel about you
The way you feel about me
But you can't make a heart say something
That it don't believe

So go on, hate me if you have to
I hate myself too
'Cause as much as I want to be

I'm not the hero in the story
I'm not the girl that gets the glory
'Cause you're looking for true love
And I'm not the one
But I wish, but I wish I was

Hmm, I wish, oh I wish I was
Go on, hate me if you have to
I still care about you
Hmm as much as I want to be

I'm not the hero in the story
I'm not the girl that gets the glory
'Cause you're looking for true love
And I'm not the one
But I wish, but I wish I was


I suppose the message she's trying to communicate is that she's made her decision to stay with OM. I dunno how much clearer that message could be. That's had me spinning a bit today. I know it doesn't mean much and I should keep standing, but that doesn't take the sting out of the message.

Could use some good JuJu sent my way.
Posted By: peacetoday Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 07/30/19 08:39 PM
Hi

Im sorry things did not work out the way you wanted or hoped

I dont know your story well-
but when I read your post I thought...maybe you were being saved from something by her leaving quickly

If it is true that she opted to stay with OM , who is physically abusive--
this also says a lot about hwere she is
and unfortunately many MLCers affair down as well as tumble down into very dangerous lifestyles
sounds like You have custody and seems that your children will be safer without being exposed to her lifestyle at this time

Continue to move forward whether you continue to stand or not
continue to pursue your happiness and highest goals-
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 07/31/19 07:19 PM
Thank you Peacetoday –

You're right about all of it. I have my children, they're away from their mother's lifestyle, and her leaving quickly was likely a good thing as well. I'm going to stick with your line of pursuing happiness and my highest goals... Seems like a legit plan.

Additionally, this has now given me the opportunity to totally cease contact with her (outside of kid convos). I've never been completely detached from her like this, so I can only imagine it'll be better for both of us.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/22/19 05:44 PM
Quick update...

Today would have been our 21st anniversary. But I'm not sad.

W insisted we have a call last week. She poured her heart out and saying she wants her family back and that the decision is all mine if I would have her. Apologies and lots of crying on her part.

She still lives with the OM, but claims she's "taking from him" until she has saved enough money to get out here. She also started AA (12 days sober) and also a therapist who believes her cancer was formed from years of pent up anxiety and trauma she never dealt with. She seems to agree and wants to go deeper to face her demons.

It all seems genuine this time, so I'm cautiously optimistic. I've just been listening and trying my best to restrain myself from making any comments or asking her questions.

We will see how this plays out, but prayers and lots of good vibes sent my way would be nice wink
Posted By: Vapo Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/26/19 01:34 PM
Prayers and good wishes to you buddy!
Posted By: DS9 Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/26/19 01:56 PM
Hi OC,

Sending you my thoughts, prayers and positive vibes mate. I’m sorry to hear about what you’re going through. Cheers D
Posted By: peacetoday Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/26/19 07:31 PM
HI

12 days sober is tricky..
good that she seems sincere and in therapy

just some thoughts

If she is serious about getting away from OM and staying sober
there are halfway houses to help her transition into sober living
AA will give her support and guidence and hopefully she will stay sober

Either way, There is Alanon for the spouse(highly recommend) so you can get support and learn how to live with a sober alcoholic
Just because they get sober...does not always make it an easy road- and many will relapse or continue to have struggles for times to come
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 08/29/19 04:53 PM
Thank you guys for the prayers – 

@peacetoday - I will need to check out Alanon, appreciate the tip
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/01/19 04:27 PM
Alright. I am running out of patience...

First off, my ex wife moved back in with us almost two months ago. It would seem her family has sorta dumped her off on me as they all refuse to help her any more than they have. She arrived fresh off a three week binge of alcohol and cocaine. Her sister found her on the side of the street and took her directly to the ER. Five days later she was moving back in with us, and trying to have a fresh start — she said she wanted to reconcile.

She's an alcoholic, no doubt. Within a day of two she started sneaking in bottles of wine or jack whenever I've entrusted her to buy groceries with my debit card. She has also used money I've loaned her for Uber rides to AA sessions to go to bars afterward and comes home sloshed.

One evening after a binge she vandelized my home to the point I had to lock her out of my home to keep her chaos away from our children – she was extremely abusive verbally. I called the police and had her arrested. Flash forward a couple weeks and she's back with us, only this time she's under probation for a year, has a mandatory 30 day inpatient rehab requirement, also required to be assessed for anger management, has more court fines to pay (in addition to the ones she still has for a DUI in another state), and she's not allowed to drink.

You'd think she'd wise up, however if anything, she's been pushing boundaries even further. She's still in communication with OM plus another M who she claims was only helping her with her hotel costs. Add to this, I caught her on several dating sites two nights ago flirting giving out her number to other men. When confronted, she attacked me and once again verabally berated with me while my children were in the other room listening.

This can't continue. She's not making any efforts to reconcile, nor is what she's doing healthy for me or the kids. My youngest S7 even said he wanted it back to the way it used to be when it was just us and mommy was not living with us. It breaks my heart.

So the question is, do I just ignore everything and pretend everything is just fine ala Larry Bilotta style? I mean being non-confrontive, ask no questions, and create as peaceful a surrounding as I can for the kids and I –or– do I just kick her out?

She has no money, no family or friends here, and would likely be homeless, but I am running out of options here.

HELP!!!
Posted By: Gerda Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/01/19 04:52 PM
Oh my gosh, OC Hope, your story makes my h3ll look like a cake walk! The only good thing about your story is that you can be very clear it's not you. There is no need for any confusion in your story!

Your situation is so very difficult.

I wanted to ask if you have been to AA or NA meetings yourself, the ones for family of addicts. I think it would be really helpful to hear their take and they might have the best insight and ideas based on years of experience.

But with no experience at all in the best way to deal with someone as severely addicted as your wife, if you want to keep her away from your kids but also keep her off the street and fulfill your vows as best as you can, could you afford a really tiny apartment or even a room somewhere in your town? Maybe make sure that she understands you will do it for six months and by then she needs to have a job and be paying her own way?

Also make sure that you are documenting all of this and keep police records, etc. I didn't read your sitch but you should get a formal custody arrangement in place while she is not caring about anything, she might make it too hard for you if she starts getting angry with you, and clearly you need to protect your kids. Maybe you can make the apartment contingent on her signing it.

((((OC Hope))))) You are carrying a heavy cross. Your love for your kids will get you all through this!
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/01/19 07:48 PM
1) You give her no money. Ever. Make other areangements to get her to meetings, buy groceries yourself.

2) If you are formally divorced you have no legal obligation to let her live with you, correct? If aspects of your divorce are not finalized, figure out how to do so.

3) Why didn’t she go directly into a 30 day inpatient rehab program? She needs one badly, and it would get her out of your house.

4) She probably needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist for co-morbid psychiatric illness. I had a boyfriend who had a serious history of drug abuse but had been sober for a few years when we met. He seemed really serious about his sobriety so I gave him a chance (he was very involved in twelve step programs). Eventually he fell off the wagon in a spectacular way, was on and off the streets for several months until it became apparent that his underlying problem is (and always has been) bipolar disorder. Everybody was so focused on the drug use that they missed the fact that manic episodes preceded his relapses. It became apparent one day when he called me after a week long binge, asking for help. I told him to go to the ER and I would meet him there, but first go check out of the motel room he was in (so charges wouldn’t accumulate).

Well, he went to check out of his room but decided to smoke up all the meth he had first. When he arrived at the ER he was high as a kite, as high as I’d ever seen him. BUT because the manic episode had stopped, he could make sense, express remorse, talk about the next steps, in a way that he couldn’t when he was manic.

We’re not together now and his mania hasn’t been perfectly controlled but he’s doing better with a mixture of psych meds and holistic treatments.

There are other medical conditions that can trigger addictive behaviors - depression, gastric bypass, Parkinson’s drugs, brain tumors, trauma, PTSD. Her behavior is so impulsive and extreme that I’d consider bipolar on the list. But if she’s this sick and unwilling to go into inpatient treatment you may need to kick her out and let her hit rock bottom. (I’m not a huge fan of that approach but you can’t have this around your kids. )

Posted By: job Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/01/19 07:52 PM
I am right there with kml's advice. Give her no money and no access to your credit and/or debit cards. You will need to pick up the groceries for now on.

I would sit her down and give her some options: 1) go into rehab and get cleaned up; or 2) leave and figure out things for herself.

She has to hit rock bottom and it has to be on her timeline. You cannot continue to have her in your home drinking and/or using, especially around your children.

The AA meetings and Alanon have plenty of info to help you, but you cannot continue to have her live there w/you in that condition.
Posted By: HaWho Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/01/19 08:28 PM
Another option, but only if you feel comfortable with it, is to say so long as you are clean/being treated (after rehab) you can stay here while you get on your feet.

Be sure to explain to your kids that none of us can save someone who does not want to fix herself. We have to save ourselves and create safe environments. It is important for your kids to know this is actually the kindest thing to do for her as otherwise she destroys more lives. If she continues to spiral in your home, she ruins her own life, yours and your kids.’

Enabling does not equate to fixing.

You can do this!
Posted By: DnJ Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/01/19 08:59 PM
Hello OC

The others are right in spot with their advice.

A man who works with me has a 16 year old son who is on drugs and booze. This poor kid is completely destroying his own life. He was getting mandatory treatment right until the day he turned 16 and the psyc nurse told him and his Dad that at 16 he is allowed to check himself out and not accept any treatments. And that is exactly what happened.

His son left home and sold everything he has had for addiction money. The son has broken back into the house, stole money, stole TVs, jewelry, etc., threaten his step Mom, and caused a lot of grief. Police have been involved more than a few times and the kids has been picked up before. He has worn out all his welcome at his friends houses. The counsellors that the Dad saw to see what he could do to help his son told him that in this stage you just have to let them be. They need to hit rock bottom. And even then the chances are not so great.

It is really sad to see how broken and lost some people can become. In my friend’s kid’s case, it stems from his Mom and her horrible behaviour towards him.

Be strong and do the best you can; and what you need to do for your family.

DnJ
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/11/19 04:40 PM
Thank you guys so much for your input. She went to a 30 inpatient treatment center far away from here a week ago. She gets to call for 5 minutes each day and talk to our son. She sounds like a completely different person already, but I know better than to assume that's the new norm yet.

I agree with KML, there might be some bipolar stuff going on somewhere in her head that needs treatment.

As for giving her any money, I've stopped that entirely. I do however pay a couple of her bills directly. This is because we are in fact divorced, however I am not currently paying her spousal support. I stopped paying that when she moved in with the OM years ago. Now that she's not living with someone, the courts would expect me to maintain support or I'd get in trouble (should she ever decide to report me).

HaWho's suggestion might be the best compromise - "so long as you are clean/being treated (after rehab) you can stay here while you get on your feet." I could begin paying her spousal support again and insist she gets her own place. That might be my best move.

This would give her space to be her own person, allow her to continue treatment and prove to herself she can live a sober life (or not). If she shows that she can do that, then we can pick up reconciliation talks again from a more healthy mental and physical point (or not).

What do you guys think?
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/11/19 07:56 PM
Quote
I could begin paying her spousal support again and insist she gets her own place. That might be my best move.


This. Don't take her back in to your home - that's too hard on the kids if she relapses. Let her get her own place and prove that she's serious about maintaining sobriety.
Posted By: peacetoday Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/11/19 08:40 PM
There are also halfway houses where the person can live with other recovering woman to get some time under her belt

Probably where they help the person get work, get to meetings ect..
they are accountable
its a step toward independence, but not too soon before the person can handle life clean

the odds of a person staying sober for one year are not great, but many people find sobriety through AA
and stay sober forever
usually the ones who work hard at it-serious annd understand the disease concept
Just depends on how much she wants it-and if she is willing to do the work behind it
therapy, meetings, sponsor
letting go of the old friends, bars ect...

also alanon can help the spouse
alateen/alatot for the kids
phone meetings also so you can listen and learn what your really dealing with-

My experience is the more people get recovery in the family
the more you all get educated
no enabling
the better the chances for the alcoholic
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/17/19 09:53 PM
Just a quick update -- The treatment center where W has two halfway houses across the street from where she is. I'm going to encourage her to stay there for 30 days, 60 if possible. This will give her time to work and have some money to get her own place.

As for Alanon, I've been to one meeting and bought the main book. I will be continuing down that road to help myself cope with the new situation. I also spoke to my youngest son's therapist and we are going to start an age-appropriate discussion around the dangers of alcohol and how he can understand what mommy is going through.

Finally, I've settled in my heart to make sure W gets her own apartment. After talking it through and reviewing last month's experiences, I recognize it's going to be a long road of recovery for her and I need to keep the kiddos outside of the debris field as much as possible.

Keep us in your prayers, please. Christmas is going to be tough.
Posted By: Gerda Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 12/19/19 05:01 AM
You are a strong and good man, OC! You are the rock for your kids!
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 02/28/20 06:06 PM
Well, here we go again...

W was arrested last month for a second DUI. She hasn't told me yet, but I know. She had only been out of rehab for a couple of weeks too. Heartbreaking.

She's been asking me to help but is hesitant to tell me how or why, so I looked up court cases in her county where she went back to. That's how I found out about her arrest. Her court date is next month, so I know she will need a lawyer. I'm hoping her parents don't help her again. I'm certainly not going to.

She needs to hit rock bottom on her own — I just don't know if this is it or not.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 02/21/21 07:11 PM
I'm tired.
I'm disillusioned
I'm sad.

It's been nearly a year and so much has happened. Since Covid delayed so many court cases, My WW was finally sentenced this week for her 2nd DUI from last January. She's since lost everything of physical value and now lives with her mother an hour away from her current work.

Last October she sent me a text saying I was the only man for her (she refuses to speak on the phone). She said she doesn't know who she is without her family. I told her I didn't believe her and she assured me this time it's true, and she wanted us to move back to her state. She violated her probation in this state and so there is a warrant out for her arrest.

That makes zero sense that all of us should uproot our lives and make the effort and expense to move across the country just because she wants to be with us again, and I told her so. I encouraged her to call the probation officer here and see what she'd be able to do, but she's scared she will have to go to jail.

In any case, nothing changed. She continued to only text and it was infrequent. Three weeks later she started seeing another man, and I let her have it. Now she accuses me of turning her away (gaslighting). At the moment she is now seeing several other men. She's also had some work done on her face and is seeking out other elective surgeries to "improve," herself.

Recently I've been asked to begin interviews with a company for a leadership role at a company back in her state. I made the mistake of telling this to her and sort of texting out loud about my concerns about moving back as the taxes and expenses will change dramatically.

It's been nearly five years. She's had many, many "rock bottoms," and continues to act out her life with me and the children as her emotional support, but nothing further. It's been weeks since she's even tried to facetime with her youngest son.

She's back to it being all about her and what she wants and needs while I have to pick up all the pieces. The cycle just continues.

This week I started blocking her on all of the social media platforms I used to share pictures of the kids for the rest of the family to follow (I'm not connected to her on any of my personal accounts). I doubt she will even notice for a while.

I've considered going 180 again. It's the only thing I think I can do for my own sanity.

I just don't know what else to do.
Posted By: DnJ Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 02/21/21 08:57 PM
Hello OC

I am sorry. I suspect you feel like you’ve been through the wringer, and emotionally you have. (((Hug)))

OC, detach. Let go.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
It's been nearly a year and so much has happened. Since Covid delayed so many court cases, My WW was finally sentenced this week for her 2nd DUI from last January. She's since lost everything of physical value and now lives with her mother an hour away from her current work.

XW has a roof over her head, and employment. Lots of people commute. I live one hour from work as well. No big deal.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
Last October she sent me a text saying I was the only man for her (she refuses to speak on the phone). She said she doesn't know who she is without her family. I told her I didn't believe her and she assured me this time it's true, and she wanted us to move back to her state. She violated her probation in this state and so there is a warrant out for her arrest.

Good for you for not moving.

Next time she pleads her case or pulls on the heartstrings, don’t bring up your lack of believing her words, that just makes her defensive. Say, something like:

XW - I don’t know who I am without my family.

OC - I’m sorry you feel that way.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
That makes zero sense that all of us should uproot our lives and make the effort and expense to move across the country just because she wants to be with us again, and I told her so. I encouraged her to call the probation officer here and see what she'd be able to do, but she's scared she will have to go to jail.

Definitely makes zero rational sense. It does have a certain irrational pattern to it. This is like her seventh or eighth time wanting to reconnect.

As for jail time. She needs to face the music - sooner or later. You encouraged her to speak with probation officer, the rest is up to her. Consequences cannot be avoided forever. Of course, that is a rational viewpoint.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
In any case, nothing changed. She continued to only text and it was infrequent. Three weeks later she started seeing another man, and I let her have it. Now she accuses me of turning her away (gaslighting). At the moment she is now seeing several other men. She's also had some work done on her face and is seeking out other elective surgeries to "improve," herself.

Three short weeks, and the cycle continues. She is an emotional mess. Let go and give her to God. You cannot fix her, for you did not break her.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
It's been nearly five years. She's had many, many "rock bottoms," and continues to act out her life with me and the children as her emotional support, but nothing further. It's been weeks since she's even tried to facetime with her youngest son.

In her five years she’s made many bad choices, DUI, abandoning her children, etc. The rock bottom is up to her. Until she really gets there, and some never do, she will keep running and skipping onto the next thing to help her avoid her pain and hidden past trauma(s).

In my humble opinion, and I have a XW who abandoned her children and insisted I get full and sole custody, XW doesn’t get emotional support from you or the kids, she uses you when she needs too. She seeks you guys out when she feels like a terrible person and mom, and needs a refill on her fantasy narrative.

A person in crisis will expend incredible energies on maintaining their fantasy reality. You know this, you have experienced many touch and goes, anchor checks, and such. Many times, these nicey-nice visits are to push buttons to get the LBS worked up and lead to an argument, so the MLCer can bolster their justifications.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
She's back to it being all about her and what she wants and needs while I have to pick up all the pieces. The cycle just continues.

She’s not back to it all being about her - that suggests at times it isn’t. No, her path is always about her! The times it appears not to be, she is hiding how she feels.

You cannot break her cyclic journey and rollercoaster of emotional gaslighting. However, you can get off the ride.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
This week I started blocking her on all of the social media platforms I used to share pictures of the kids for the rest of the family to follow (I'm not connected to her on any of my personal accounts). I doubt she will even notice for a while.

Blocking her is a good idea. You do not need random connecting from her. Not from her the person, nor from FB’s reminders or friend requests and such. This is a boundary for your sanity and emotional health. Stick to it.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I've considered going 180 again. It's the only thing I think I can do for my own sanity.

I just don't know what else to do.

Save yourself.

An emotionally troubled and manipulative person will make you crazy and question your own sanity. Let go. Detach.


OC, you are divorced. Finalized four years ago. Please stop letting yourself be dragged around.

More or less, the last time you we here, daughter was living with Mom and finishing her last year of high school. How did she do? What is she doing now? Working? College? University? Where does she live? With you, mom, BF, or by herself?

How is S18? Last year at high school I suspect. What are his plans? Is he excited with graduation planning? How has he eased into being an adult?

You have sole custody of S9, right? Does he have actual school classes? Or online classes? How is his reading and math? Is he artistic? Likes to run? Or more a thinker?

How is work for you? I am guessing you did not accept the leadership position back in her state. Are you renting or did you purchase a house?

My first post to you was encouraging you to post often. To vent, to update, to seek suggestions. I am encouraging you again. I, for one, would love to hear how and what you are doing. And I am sure many others would love to know as well.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I'm tired.
I'm disillusioned
I'm sad.

(((Hugs)))

You are among friends who know what you are going through. We all share a common path and lost.

Stay strong.

D
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 02/21/21 09:23 PM
Yes, OC - let go. You can’t help her. You did your best. Your focus needs to be on you and your kids.

Jail might be good for your ex - it might be her only chance at sobriety. Not that jail is ever a good thing, but there might not be any other way for her to be sober long enough for it to “take”.
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 02/23/21 05:19 PM
Thank you DnJ and kml —

You guys are amazing. You're right, I need to get back on track and start posting more. It's been a cruddy year for everyone and I'm sure I would have benefitted from hearing some feedback on my concerns.

She reached out to me on Sunday night asking how my weekend was. I replied saying, "Good. All caught up on laundry." and left it at that. Last night she posted to our family group text thread an old video of our youngest when he was about four. So yea, I think she's feeling like a terrible person and using us to refill her fantasy narrative.

As for catching up on the kiddos:

D20: She "came out" as pansexual a couple of years ago while she still lived with me. There was a pansexual flag on the back of her closet door so I already suspected, but played dumb. One afternoon I was sitting on her bed and she was showing me some of her latest artwork and I sheepishly took note of her flag asking what it stood for. She answered immediately and without hesitation, however, it was followed by a long pause. She gained her composure and simply said, "Dad, I am pansexual." I immediately said, "That's okay D20, I love you just the way you are, and I'm so proud of you for telling me." She burst into tears. I burst into tears. And what followed was the longest, most treasured hug I will probably ever have had.

And of course, her mom didn't take it nearly as well. At the time she was still living with her very conservative and abusive ex-marine fiance. That jack@$$ would make the most horrific backhanded comments about her. I've never ever thought to be extremely violent to someone, but if ever there were a time, that was as close to it as I've come.

What followed was several years of her cutting and having suicidal ideations. I was able to find her treatment, medication, and therapy which helped tremendously, but to this day, every time I see those scars, a piece of me breaks.

Flash forward to now, she received a scholarship for a top 10 art & design college a few states over from us. She's in her Junior year and consistently making the Dean's list each semester. She has wonderfully funny roommates and met a new girlfriend last year whom I adore. They are planning to get a place together this summer (and yes, I've had the DO NOT GET MARRIED right now talk with her).

S18: He graduated last year in the middle of Covid. The school was amazing and delayed the ceremony until the summer when things were a little safer. He has a genetic condition called Cystic Fibrosis that makes his lungs susceptible to things like Covid, so outside of an occasional run to get cheeseburgers, he hasn't really gone anywhere for a year. What he's been focussing on is his 3D animation and coding. I got him an iPhone that has the new LiDar sensors in it so her can take photos of things and easily render them into objects he can manipulate in the worlds he creates on the screen. It really is fantastic to see him get excited about designing the most mundane objects (an old 80's alarm clock, pipes, water meters, mailboxes, etc) and then upload them to open-source projects where other designers are downloading and utilizing his work.

Now he's moved into mechanics, so his designs are things like moving elevators, renderings of highly artistic robots, spaceships, and even just experimenting with metal pivot joints and fluid manipulation. He's a very intelligent young man and has taught himself everything from watching Youtube and reading, as well as participates on Twitch streams as a community manager and writing javescript-based programs for various task automation.

If he keeps up this rate, in another three years he will be so far ahead of any kid who's spent tens of thousands of dollars at universities in terms of building up his personal network, practical experience, and having a vast portfolio of relevant work produced to land his dream job. I'm simply blown away by this kid.

S9: This guy is a trooper. Due to his older brother's condition, he has had to do all of his schoolwork remotely so as not to bring something home and infect his immunocompromised brother. He too is highly created, very verbal, and much more socially oriented, so this time has been quite trying for him. There is a small group of friends in the neighborhood that he plays with and one buddy, in particular, has a family that's been amazingly helpful by taking Henry to hockey games and swimming at the fitness center they are members at. They know I'm a single Dad and seem to have taken it upon themselves to pitch in and give me a little relief once in a while.

He still misses his mama, but the breakdowns are fewer and farther between. His mom seems to forget to facetime him often. The last time I can remember was probably Christmas Day. I had him in therapy up until last fall when he "graduated," from his child therapist's care. Most of his behavioral idiosyncrasies stem around attention. Early on, he once told his therapist that he feels he needs to make people laugh and be happy all the time because he is afraid that if he can't make them happy, then one day they may leave him. That explains a lot and breaks my heart.

The only real issues we deal with these days are his occasional bouts of loneliness and he keeps peeing in his pants while fully engrossed with his iPad or Switch. So aside from a bit more laundry, I have to do, the rest is pretty manageable.

As for me... I am still working from home as a marketing consultant helping brands more effectively tell their stories. I'm really passionate about crafting narratives that are compelling and inspiring, but it takes quite a lot of time to get into the creative zone and truly exercise my talents. This challenge is augmented by my two boys also being home and wanting to eat, watch a movie, or tell me something interesting about their day.

The leadership role is still in play. I've had three interviews so far and my old work colleague who brought me introduced me to the opportunity has said that they really liked me. So we shall see. I am also starting interviews tomorrow with a very public media company tomorrow to head up their product marketing. That too is a very big opportunity and would get me back into the industry in a big way (after six years of freelancing). The really big benefit to that role is it would allow me to work remotely while still receiving a big city salary. Fingers crossed!

At this moment, I am still renting. I'm an idiot. I had the chance to buy, was a couple of weeks out from closing on a beautiful newly constructed home, and due to a loophole, had the chance to back out of it... and I did. In reflecting back on it, I think I panicked on the permanency the decision suggested, as well as probably had an ulterior motive of trying to win my XW attention to come back. I wasn't in a great headspace, to be honest.

With this new job opportunity, I've been looking at houses again and pushing off making any major purchases or applying for credit as I ready myself for the loan process. I fully intend to pull the trigger, and this time, it will be for me and my children as the only consideration.

[big sigh]

Okay, that was a big reply. If you've read all the way to here, bless you. From here on out, I pledge to make more frequent updates so I won't have to write small novels next time. smile

Thank you guys!

Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/03/21 05:48 PM
Okay y'all —

Need advice here. I did what I set out to do with a 180 and went dark on WW. I made the mistake of mentioning the job opportunity in her state last month, which she does not need to know about unless it happens.

I blocked her on all social media channels and have not posted anything to our family group texts. She is used to me telling jokes, engaging, and sharing pics of the kids there. Or writing very specific, detailed texts to her when explaining myself for decisions I was making that she wanted to understand. So all of that came to a halt.

A little over a week ago she asked me how my weekend was and I simply wrote, "Good. All caught up on laundry." She just gave it a thumbs up and that was that.

This morning she asked if there was any news on the job. I wrote, "not yet."

Her response is telling: "Some days I get paragraph long texts now nothin. What’s with you?" Followed by another text minutes later saying, "It’s all good. Hope everything turns out the way you’d like. 👍🏻 "

I feel compelled to tell her something so that I don't come off as cold and uncaring.

How would you reply (if at all)?
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/03/21 07:22 PM
What was your purpose in doing the 180? Was it to spare yourself pain? If so, just let her know it's too painful for you to keep up that level of contact.

Was it to punish her? Not really a useful reason. Go back to posting pictures of the ids.

Was it to get her attention? Well, you have it now, what do you want to say?

My guess is it's #1, and you need to step back so as not to be sucked into that painful place with her. It's ok to tell her that. Or some version of that that doesn't make her think she has power over you. Just tell her it's too difficult for you to be in contact with her right now, as it's painful to watch her self-destruction.
Posted By: DnJ Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 03/04/21 02:21 AM
Hello OC

First off, great update on the kiddos.

Very well done giving D20 the opportunity to open up to you. That will be a hug to cherish for a very long time, the first of many I suspect. We do lead our children, not make their choices, just lead them and inspire them is all.

I can fully understand (and support smile ) S18’s cheeseburger runs. Lol. It sounds like he is very eager and quite adapt with coding and animation. Good for him. Is he considering taking further studies?

I really like reading how S9 is handling things. Yes, kids are quite the troopers aren’t they? Finding ways to complete his homework is pretty telling of his level of conviction towards his obligations and pride of self. Again, you do lead their way, and they choose to follow.

It is pretty sad when Mom forgets the appointments with them. My XW missed our third boy’s birthday, flaked out on visits with the kids, and basically was a terrible Mom. She chose her happiness above all else.

Something interesting is that most MLCers do pick a favourite child. That fact brings with it, the MLCer also picks a least favourite kid. My poor S20, S17 at the time of BD, was the least favourite. That mantle was shifted among them somewhat but XW really did stick it to him the most.

My daughter was treated rather poorly as well, with XW seeing her more as a rival “girl”. Very strange and weird times. XW actually was stalking her, followed her around after school. She even confronted daughter (15 at the time) in the hallway, at school, between classes, in front of all her classmates.

It is nice to see you so busy working at home. The challenges with the boys wanting to see you, or have a snack, or tell you about their day - is perfect. What a blessing!

Good luck on the leadership role. It does sound pretty good. I will cross my fingers for you as well.

I like big updates and posts, so don’t sweat it. Most of my posts tend towards the multi-paragraph, multi-page, end of the spectrum.

To the question at hand:

You went dark and XW noticed. Ok.

As kml queried, what was the purpose for your 180? For going dark?

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
This week I started blocking her on all of the social media platforms I used to share pictures of the kids for the rest of the family to follow (I'm not connected to her on any of my personal accounts). I doubt she will even notice for a while.

I've considered going 180 again. It's the only thing I think I can do for my own sanity.

I just don't know what else to do.

XW noticed rather quickly, didn’t she?

OC, let go of her.

For your sanity.

I suspect you are not trying to punish her. Are wanting her to notice. Are wanting some peace. Are wanting to heal.

For me, way back when (lol), I went dark because people here suggested I do. Yes, I understood some of the reasons - well in truth I thought I understood but later discovered I really didn’t at the time. I took it on faith. I was in an emotional place I didn’t want to be in, and the wise and compassionate people here had good advice.

Still, everyone needs a certain level of understanding before they can let go.

Going dark is for you. It is used for one to get detached from the pain of their spouse and their behaviours. There is a withdrawal as one lets go of their spouse. That withdrawal is painful! The pull is incredibly addictive. Going dark keeps one from prolonging the withdrawal.

Being dark does not make one’s spouse want you more. Is not used to manipulate the MLCer’s path. It is not some trick to make them see the light. It is simply a tool for you to regain your power and stability.

I agree with kml, and believe your main purpose in your going dark is to limit your pain and suffering. You have been dragged around too long. Go dark and let go.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I blocked her on all social media channels and have not posted anything to our family group texts. She is used to me telling jokes, engaging, and sharing pics of the kids there. Or writing very specific, detailed texts to her when explaining myself for decisions I was making that she wanted to understand. So all of that came to a halt.

Good. Focus on you and the kids.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
A little over a week ago she asked me how my weekend was and I simply wrote, "Good. All caught up on laundry." She just gave it a thumbs up and that was that.

That isn’t going dark. Maybe dim. Maybe.

XW is keeping you hooked, right where she wants you.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
This morning she asked if there was any news on the job. I wrote, "not yet."

Another check.

Originally Posted by OV_Hope
Her response is telling: "Some days I get paragraph long texts now nothin. What’s with you?" Followed by another text minutes later saying, "It’s all good. Hope everything turns out the way you’d like. 👍🏻 "

Of course she questions what you are doing. It doesn’t fit with what she wants you to do.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I feel compelled to tell her something so that I don't come off as cold and uncaring.

How would you reply (if at all)?

Perfectly normal to feel compelled to respond to her. To tell her something. To not want to come off as the cold uncaring bad guy.

OC, feelings are fleeting! Feelings flit away when they are not reinforced. Feelings are very real, and very temporary. Do not make decisions based upon feelings. Look to logic and reason. And once you have your core values and beliefs dialled in, look to those.

Let go and let the feelings flit.

Your response for her inquiry into your weekend should be - nothing. Your response about news on your job - nothing. I’m guessing you probably see a pattern emerging here and could guess what you should respond to her latest inquiry of “what’s with you?”.

You need not respond. Go dark.

Bills and kids. Only. Those are the two topics for discussion.

Your weekend - your business not her’s. Your job opportunity - your business not her’s.

She divorced you. Is still seeing an OM. You cannot nice her back. You also cannot mean her back - in case you heard that somewhere. Basically, nothing you do can speed up her journey. But it can delay it.

Focus on you.

You are not the cold mean bad guy for not responding to her vacuous small talk. Seriously, if she wanted to really discuss something of importance you would know.

XW will probably not like you letting go and standing up on your own. She knows how much she had you dragged around. Remember, you are going dark for your sanity. That is how much an emotionally troubled and manipulative person can twist us around. And I know just how hard this is too see and believe. I really do.

OC, go dark. Unless it is about the kids there is really nothing you need to speak to her about. Money is all sorted out I would guess, and S9 is the only minor child with the others being adults.

As I said earlier, it takes a certain amount of understanding before one can let go. I hope my multi-paragraph post is helpful. smile

Place your attention upon your boys and their snack interruptions and wanting to talk about their lives. Keep inspiring your wonderful daughter and renewing the bond you two share. Live your life, greatly! Fully!

Stay the course.

D
Posted By: OC_Hope Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 01/24/22 12:01 AM
Oof… I was doing so well.

Quick catch-up. I moved back to my home state where my daughter is finishing college. Her doctor changed her meds and is now treating her for bipolar disassociated personality disorder. She was very concerned and it does explain many things. It’s also hereditary.

Around the same time the boys and I moved, XW moved to another city far away with OM2 and has a nice new job making good money.

Meanwhile, I now have all the kiddos in the same city and immensely happy here knowing my kiddos are with me. I even had the opportunity to take my first vacation trip overseas by myself and even went cave exploring and scuba dived, directly addressing my claustrophobic fears! It was amazing.

Over the holidays, XW began thinking about the kids a lot, growing nostalgic, and even brought up the idea of coming back here and getting a house together so the kids could come have a home to visit or even live with us.

I didn’t get excited or push, however I did ask a few days if she was being sincere about asking that. She said she was. A week went by and I asked her if she had a timeline in mind. She said no.

Then I went on vacation where I was updating our family chat group with photos and stories.

I said something odd I should not have. I told her I wished she was there experiencing this with me. She didn’t answer for. Couple days. I tried to play it off as no big deal and asked if the feelings weren’t mutual.

She said no, they were not.

Then today she sent me a long email saying she no longer wants to talk about our relationship. She accused me again of tricking her into signing over custody and using the kids as leverage to get her back, and that she will never live under the same roof as me. That she’s moved on and hopes I find someone special myself.

She also said going forward she will only talk to the kids over text, talk to me over email, and won’t talk to me unless it’s about the kids.

What the hell happened?

I’m at a bit of a loss. She has not spoken to my youngest in a year. Only texts. She hasn’t even seen her boys in more than two years. It’s been even longer for my daughter.

My inclination is to do absolutely nothing. No response. No acknowledgment. And leave it all alone.

I think I’ve just been given a gift. Not to necessarily give up on my marriage, but to let XW live in her decision and I go on living my life.

Does that sound about right?
Posted By: bttrfly Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 01/24/22 01:03 AM
I feel the best thing we can do for ourselves is to figure out how to live our best lives and then do so, separate from the other / former partner. That way, regardless of whether or not they float back into our lives on a cloud of MLC pixie dust or crawl back begging for forgiveness or something in between or they remain gone forever, we are STILL living our best lives.

We owe it to ourselves and to our children. They are watching how we handle all of this.
Posted By: kml Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 01/24/22 02:54 AM
She did a touch back to see if you were still an option for her, and once she satisfied herself that you were, she went back to her life.

Let go. Live your life looking forward, not back. If she shows up with a year of sobriety and being appropriate with the kids, then you can consider whether you would want her back. But anything less than that - nope. And stop holding your breath - it’s not impossible but not very likely either that she will do the needed things. Go on with your life. Don’t respond.
Posted By: DnJ Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 01/24/22 03:57 AM
Hello OC

It’s nice to hear from you. Sounds like good things and changes have taken place in your life.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I now have all the kiddos in the same city and immensely happy here knowing my kiddos are with me. I even had the opportunity to take my first vacation trip overseas by myself and even went cave exploring and scuba dived, directly addressing my claustrophobic fears! It was amazing.

XW and OM2 moved far away, and she left the kids. That is not necessarily as mean or purposeful as that appears; her running is driven by her emotional pain. It’s not the kids or you she is really running from, it’s herself.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
Over the holidays, XW began thinking about the kids a lot, growing nostalgic, and even brought up the idea of coming back here and getting a house together so the kids could come have a home to visit or even live with us.

Holidays, those special times, do bring people back to reality. Nostalgia and memories swimming within her head. A peek out of the tunnel.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
XW moved to another city far away with OM2 and has a nice new job making good money.

To be clear, XW lives far away, with OM2, and has a nice job with lots of money. And she has this idea of you and her buying a house and/or living together so the kids can visit. A rather oil and water mix going on in her; quite the confusion.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I did ask a few days if she was being sincere about asking that. She said she was. A week went by and I asked her if she had a timeline in mind. She said no.

MLCers are driven by their emotions. Whatever they feel, at that time and space, is their reality. XW felt that way, yet has no plan nor idea of how to implement it. Fantasy.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
Then I went on vacation where I was updating our family chat group with photos and stories.

I said something odd I should not have. I told her I wished she was there experiencing this with me. She didn’t answer for. Couple days. I tried to play it off as no big deal and asked if the feelings weren’t mutual.

She said no, they were not.

Unless she broke up with OM2 and you forgot to mention that - what are you doing?

Last we spoke, you were going dark. You had enough of getting dragged around.

Originally Posted by OC_Hooe
Then today she sent me a long email saying she no longer wants to talk about our relationship. She accused me again of tricking her into signing over custody and using the kids as leverage to get her back, and that she will never live under the same roof as me. That she’s moved on and hopes I find someone special myself.

She also said going forward she will only talk to the kids over text, talk to me over email, and won’t talk to me unless it’s about the kids.

And the other shoe drops. Holidays wind down, nostalgia fades, and the crisis reaches from within dragging her back into its dark depth.

Her anger is not surprising. Relationship talks are extreme pressure to one in such a crisis.

She again blames you for tricking her. Using the kids against her. Etc. Etc. This is all projection and crafted justification for her blaming you. This is her tactic, her unhealthy mechanism of projecting the cause of her pains upon you. A person so consumed by such torment is quite unable to see clearly for long periods of time. Her path and journey is at her pace and no one else’s.

“That she’s moved on and hopes I find someone special myself.” Realize she is talking to herself. Trying to convince herself. While, in fact, she is with someone else. Think of how messed up and confused she must be.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
What the hell happened?

She is in crisis.

Her reconciliation talk was just that - talk. She most likely felt bad over the holidays. Her life not turning out like she imagined and wished it was going to. And she reached out. And placed you right back upon that shelf. This all from her crisis driven point of view. A temperature check.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I’m at a bit of a loss. She has not spoken to my youngest in a year. Only texts. She hasn’t even seen her boys in more than two years. It’s been even longer for my daughter.

Sorry man. I also got sole custody of my kids, as XW did not want them. There is little you can do. And most MLCers become terrible parents.

It is not your job to facilitate a relationship between Mom and her child; it is your job to not destroy it. You’ve not placed boulders or barriers for communication. XW chooses to only text. She chooses to not visit them.

Keep leading and walk the high road. Be the role model for your kids.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
My inclination is to do absolutely nothing. No response. No acknowledgment. And leave it all alone.

Yep. That sounds like a good plan.

Originally Posted by OC_Hope
I think I’ve just been given a gift. Not to necessarily give up on my marriage, but to let XW live in her decision and I go on living my life.

Does that sound about right?

Absolutely! Live your life. Love your life.

OC, do let go your marriage. You are not married. That is not giving up. It’s not necessarily moving on. It is moving forward.

You stand for yourself. Your values and beliefs. Rise up, live and love, and walk in the light. Care for and guide your wonderful children. And give XW to God. Let go that which your cannot control.

There are gifts/blessing upon this journey and one finds their correct time to receive them. I believe you have been given a gift. Accept it.

D
Posted By: Vapo Re: Trying to do the right thing... - 01/24/22 08:17 AM
DnJ nailed it. You should print out his reply, frame it and reread it 7 times daily until it sinks in. He adressed all points brilliantly and there is really nothing more to add.

Continue being an awesome dad, do not spent your life waiting on her or checking her every move. Live your life, live forward. As DnJ said, it's not movin on from her, it's moving forward.

Find joy in life, live life to the fullest.
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