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She moved out...now the work begins...Part 4 Kind of a weird week...the last couple of days the W has called and spewed about her relationship with her "crazy" sister that is spreading rumors about the W and also how manipulative the sister and BIL are. Today has been quiet. I guess she has something filling her time instead of stewing on the issues at hand.
This morning I received an invite to a get together by some friends of ours. It was an invite that went out to alot of people all of who are friends of ours and all of whom are married couples. The W and I both received invites to go. She replied to the group that she was going. I only replied to the person that sent the invite. It'll be interesting to see if she shows by herself.
Kind of gut checking myself on this one. Do I have the courage to go to the party without telling her I am going? I don't think she'd bring anyone else around this group of people, but then again...I didn't think she'd do all of this to me and my family.
SBJ.....
I'm sorry that your wife is spewing all of that onto you. Isn't it crazy how everything becomes about them, and they seem to forget that we are dealing with a failing M and that sometimes we are only holding on by a string.
I haven't spoken to my husband recently, but the last time I did the conversation was all about him and how he is so busy at work and how he has started to socialize. I asked him if he could help with the dog and he said he could but he made sure to let me know that he had plans and was really busy and would do his best to help out. But what I have come to learn is that he is actually not enjoying life as much as he says he is and is at home at night alone and is struggling financially. I guess that statement "believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does" is true.
I wish you well as you continue on this journey. I hope that she lets up on the spewing
.
Hang in there my friend. One day at a time.
Everything is all about them...you are right. Even though she feels like she spent the last 20+ years taking care of everyone else like her sisters, her parents, her kids, and her family...like most people do day in and day out. I never put any demands on her regarding anything...we never fought over the house, money, kids, work...nothing like that. Our only issue was the regularity in the romance department. Now she says she has finally grown some b@lls and isn't going to take $#!^ from anyone again. The problem is...why am I getting screwed...or not screwed in this case? Selfishness has raised its head in her case and it is definitely not pretty.
Now the only things she wants to discuss questions regarding my attorney and how fast we can push this D thru. It is burning me up. I guess I'm cycling back thru some anger. I've spent 25 years with the most giving woman on the planet (I thought) and now she is becoming a selfish &!^(#.
Now I'm spewing...I'm sorry for that. I guess this is a safe place to do it, instead of letting her have it.
You do have a choice as to whether you discuss the situation concerning the divorce proceedings w/her. If I were in your shoes, I would cut her off very nicely and advise her that you aren't going to be discussing the divorce and where it's at w/her. In other words, she can address these issues w/her lawyer and go from there. Don't allow this woman to take you down into the dark hole w/her. You do have the choice of cutting her off when she's out of control or nasty.
I'm sorry she's acting this way, but she thinks the divorce is going to bring her happiness and it's not...but that's for her to figure out.
On the contrary job...when she was spewing about other people she sounded nasty. When she speaks to me she is as nice as pie. It's not that she is mean about it...she just knows that I don't think that D is the answer yet she is still wanting it. I guess I haven't totally detached since the thought of ripping my entire family apart makes me angry. haha.
I am battling my demons of my own creation I guess...I have faith that God will see my family thru this successfully, yet I get that doubt that pokes his head in every so often regarding she and I. I also continue to have friends of mine come to me asking if I'm OK and then asking me if what they've heard was true. I have gotten to the point of simply shutting them down by asking them to pray for my family. The problem isn't having them come to me, the problem is the fact that there are rumors still floating around and seem to be getting stronger...about the W and that she left me because of OM.
SBJ,
You are going to have dig deeper for patience and stronger faith because the rumors will continue to float around for quite some time. You have done nothing wrong and when people ask about the situation, advise them that whatever is happening in the lives of your family will stay amongst the family members. Yes, it's good to ask them to pray for your family as well.
You can't control the people spreading rumors about the situation, but you can stand tall, hold your head up and continue to be the honest, hardworking man that you've always been.
I do understand the feelings of anger because you know that deep down, your marriage can be salvaged if given a chance. She's just not there yet to actually see and understand that you aren't the problem...the problem is within herself.
Carry on as you have been. Hopefully people will get the message that what is going on in your life is private and not for public consumption.
Everything is all about them...you are right. Even though she feels like she spent the last 20+ years taking care of everyone else like her sisters, her parents, her kids, and her family...like most people do day in and day out. I never put any demands on her regarding anything...we never fought over the house, money, kids, work...nothing like that. Our only issue was the regularity in the romance department. Now she says she has finally grown some b@lls and isn't going to take $#!^ from anyone again. The problem is...why am I getting screwed...or not screwed in this case? Selfishness has raised its head in her case and it is definitely not pretty.
Now the only things she wants to discuss questions regarding my attorney and how fast we can push this D thru. It is burning me up. I guess I'm cycling back thru some anger. I've spent 25 years with the most giving woman on the planet (I thought) and now she is becoming a selfish &!^(#.
Now I'm spewing...I'm sorry for that. I guess this is a safe place to do it, instead of letting her have it.
I've been lurking in your thread for a while because my W says the same things to me and I am also in the process of negotiating our separation agreement. I wish I had advice or words of encouragement, but just know you are not alone.
SBJ,
You are going to have dig deeper for patience and stronger faith because the rumors will continue to float around for quite some time. You have done nothing wrong and when people ask about the situation, advise them that whatever is happening in the lives of your family will stay amongst the family members. Yes, it's good to ask them to pray for your family as well.
Excellent advice on the rumors.
Thanks job...you are a great help with putting things into perspective.
Kind of funny...the friends invite for this weekend changed to dinner at a local restaurant, but they were wondering where we could all go to visit afterwards. I offered my house. Once they sent out the invite change, that read SBJ has offered his house for the gathering...I received a call from the W asking if I minded if she come to the house. I told her I didn't mind. It is a kids also event so it'll be nice to have the entire family back under my roof...at least for a while. Totally wanted to say that I didn't mind her in the house because I didn't want her to leave it in the first place. haha. It is funny/sad how their minds work.
If she shows up, be gracious and treat her just as you would your other guests. This will be the time to put on your best behavior as an actor for she will definitely be observing how you are around her and others.
I suggest that you get some nice smelling air fresheners and place them around your home. You want her to leave w/the reminder of how nice your home smells. I would also have some goodies there for your guests, i.e., cookies, etc. You don't have to get elaborate stuff, but have some nice nibbles. Again, this is the time to shine!
She has been the consummate party planner for the last 25+ years, but I will do my best to set up properly.
You will do just fine! I have faith in you!
Dinner was just ok...ended up sitting next to the W and she had nothing but small talk to say to me. There were 8 couples plus kids. Bought dinner for my entire family...was thanked for it.
Everyone came back to my house for drinks, desert and coffee after dinner. The last ppl left around 1030 pm. Had a great time. The W real gated herself to the kitchen and dining room. She did not venture into the back of the house.
I cannot express how difficult it was to watch her drive away. She simply said thanks for having me...bye. How deflating. I did grab her shoulders as she was walking out and give a gentle squeeze. I then hugged my two youngest and told them that I loved them. Seeing her seem at easy getting in her Carnac drive away was heartbreaking.
Thank God I was able to keep from asking her to stay. Several of the men that were here know what is going on and are praying that things work out for us. I know God's will will be done, but as a humanit is difficult having the patience to wait on his timing.
Hi SBJ, I've only posted once but I follow along. Sounds like you did well tonight, my w is at my house a lot so I know how hard it is, especially when they leave with the kids. It gets easier though, sometimes are harder than others but overall it gets easier (and sometimes I want to kick her in the butt on the way out, lol). My w also limits where she goes or asks, it seems weird even still, but Idk what I'd think if she went all over either. And although they seem at ease I often think it is an act. Keep being a guy she's a fool to leave and keep you expectations nil (I know I'm one to talk).
Sounds like you did great!
Your posting sounds like you did great. I know it was difficult to see her walk out and get into her car and drive away....but...she left w/some good memories of the night. Hopefully those memories will stay w/her for a while and she'll think about how nice the evening turned out.
Today is a new day...what do you have planned?
Thanks guys...I drunk posted last night, but at least I didn't drunk dial or text her. It was kind of funny, but when everyone walked in I overheard her say well isn't he the little party planner. She was being serious and not sarcastic. The house was spotless and I had coffee, deserts, and mixed drinks for everyone. She has special dietary needs, so I even had something that she could eat. You are suppose to know your guests for your party...right?
I've had no physical contact with her in six months...and I guess I need to keep trying to detach because she is...at times...so physically beautiful it drives me mad.
I think you shocked her that you have the place looking nice and all of the fixings for your guests, i.e., right down to what she could eat. Well done! It shows her that you are strong, independent and can plan parties too.
Continue as you have been. I'm very proud of you!
SBJ ^x2
I think what is important for you to walk away from with this is not the thought this one demonstration will wake her up and win her back but it simply plants a seed. You have not fallen apart, you had the place looking good, you were a good host (something that she probably felt was hers and you would fail without her... hence the statement about you being the party planner all the sudden) and you demonstrated some chaps by not allowing her presence to effect you (outwardly).
Thats a good start to planting several seeds without her realizing how many seeds you are tossing out there.
Thanks Cali and job...I feel that I have become a bit OCD at my house. We had our routine...I cooked/grocery shopped/did the yard and she cleaned and did the laundry. Now having to do it all I realize that I really like things neat and tidy. I have the kitchen, den and dining area ship shape at all times...and have been making my bed daily. I have removed all of the things that she left in our bathroom and made it my own...except for when my daughter is there...she really likes the large mirror in the master bathroom. She now has a couple of her own drawers in my master bath. I was kind of hoping that the W would walk back there and notice, but she stayed in the kitchen/den area the entire evening.
Today she has called already asking me if I'd spoken to my attorney yet. She is pushing to get this thing done quickly. I have put a call in to my attorney and keep telling the W that things are in motion, but that there is no rush on anything. It is kind of frustrating. I don't know if I am just holding out that she will suddenly change her mind or if I am just dragging my feet since I don't believe in divorce. Whatever it is...there is absolutely no RUSH on it.
SBJ
I have had the same revelation for whatever reason. I was not a very tidy individual during our M but once I had my own place I started a transformation, old things out, new in .. my taste my style and over the past few years its just extended. I joke with my brothers about how I used to think she was super anal and tidy but now I am .... totally baffles me.
I too think I held out, no news is good news/ this is HER D type of approach. Nothing wrong with that let her do the heavy lifting. She will not likely all the sudden change her mind, it does take time for them to realize the fantasy is not as wonderful as they have been dreaming it will be
VENTING...Why is it that we can pray for them and their well being, yet still get so frustrated. I have faith that God will take care of what we are going thru, but I question what it is that I am suppose to learn during this trial.
I know that I don't have any control over her, but I guess I am simply hoping that God opens her eyes before we actually have to go thru with the divorce. It is something that I am totally morally against, but again...It takes two to make a M work.
VENTING...Why is it that we can pray for them and their well being, yet still get so frustrated. I have faith that God will take care of what we are going thru, but I question what it is that I am suppose to learn during this trial.
I know that I don't have any control over her, but I guess I am simply hoping that God opens her eyes before we actually have to go thru with the divorce. It is something that I am totally morally against, but again...It takes two to make a M work.
SBJ
Here is the problem ... the root of your frustration. God will work on these things on His timeline, not yours. His Will, not yours. His plan ... again, not yours.
Its very hard to keep this in mind in the eye of the storm. I will simply tell you what I learned from all 'this'. I would have NEVER made the changes had He stepped in and fixed it all on my timeline according to my plan. The lessons I still pray that I have learned by now, maybe I have, maybe there is more to learn ..... maybe its her who needs to learn a few choice lessons as well. Honestly I try to remain open every day for a sign, guidance and wisdom to learn what it is He is trying to teach me. There are alot of things at play here, you need to have faith in His plan and let go of your own plan for all this.
Cali, while i have faith that things happen within his timing...as a normal human being I want it yesterday. I feel like she and I are speeding towards a cliff and we cannot stop. It is a totally helpless feeling.
While I know that I can live and succeed as a single man...that is not what I signed up for. I signed up for life. Again, I know that it takes two to tango, but it simply drives me nuts to know that we have a great marriage and a wonderful family together.
You had a good marriage...
SBJ
Absolutely its a helpless feeling. None of asked nor would sign up for this ... but ya know what .. its here, right in our lap and we have a choice. Let this mess define us, or get up and start working on what we can control .. ourselves.
I read this from a LBS who actually survived his wife's MLC ... maybe something for you in here:
I see now that so much of the reason that I suffered so long was because I refused to let go of my ego...my belief in myself as the Most Qualified/Most Capable to solve my problems and that I had all the answers. I had people on sites like this telling me what I needed to do and how I should go about healing myself...and I listened but I didn't HEAR. I went through the motions, said the words, did the actions, but to me...I was still in control...and I could by sheer force of will make the situation better. So I stayed far to long in the middle of the battlefield because I was sure I knew the way out...only to run around in circles taking shrapnel and damage all along the way. I did this until the wounds got too deep and I finally really bottomed out, and was ready to do something really stupid...my last grasp at control! My daughter saved me...and then I could finally hear God in my world...Time for a change.
Understanding that what we have in us...comes out of us when pressure is applied was the first step. Our character is never tested when life is smooth...only in the tough times do we see what we are really made of. So once I stepped back at looked at what was coming out...it was not what I wanted to see. But giving it a name...making it real was the first step. Seeing what I was, why I was opened my eyes. As I identified and named off my Low Self Esteem, My Fixer Need, My Fears and My Foibles I could start looking at how I was dealing with those shortcomings. It became so clear why I had always surrounded myself with broken people that needed me to fix or save them...it explained my need to win...my need to succeed...my constant attempts at control. My life looked like a pre-school picture book...and it was so easy to see now.
This knowledge opened the door...It gave me a new found peace that goes with understanding yourself, and becoming comfortable with yourself. I no longer had to accept that "I have always been like that" because I could change my thinking about this or that and channel it for good. The light was on and I could see...and I felt free at last. All I had to do was Abandon the Me I Always Knew. Typing it, it seems so easy...but living the path, learning the lessons and healing the scars was a process.
CaliGuy..... I like the post from the previous LBS. Sometimes you need to read what others have gone through to see that maybe what you are doing ISN'T working, even though you thought it was.
SBJ...I'm so sorry you are having a hard time. We will never understand why they are making the choices that they are making. I'm not sure about you, but when I keep hearing everyone say "just keep working on you" or "you are not in control" it is hard!!! Right now I don't see how doing what is suggested is going to make a difference, but there is a reason everyone keeps telling us that
ONE DAY AT A TIME......
Hey SBJ, haven't heard from you in a while. Hope things are okay?
Hey skm...I just livin' the dream!!! I have had alot going on not having to do with the W. She is still on the D path, so I have been trying to keep focused on other things.
I'm working with another guy from my church on a men's support group. It seems that there are groups for women, groups for faith sharing, but nothing for guys going thru rough patches. My friend is a psychologist and we have another counselor friend that we might include. Part of me feels that this is something that I was meant to start. Sometimes roadblocks are put in our paths so we can either find the best way to overcome the situation or simply to grow in your own personal journey and faith.
I am trying to stay focused on myself and my children. Had a relaxing weekend with the kids. I hope this week continues on a positive path.
VENTING...Why is it that we can pray for them and their well being, yet still get so frustrated. I have faith that God will take care of what we are going thru, but I question what it is that I am suppose to learn during this trial.
I know that I don't have any control over her, but I guess I am simply hoping that God opens her eyes before we actually have to go thru with the divorce. It is something that I am totally morally against, but again...It takes two to make a M work.
SBJ--I totally related to your frustrated prayers; the below has become my favorite Psalm in this crisis...read it as often as needed...
Psalm 13
1 How long, Lord? Will you forget me forever?
How long will you hide your face from me?
2 How long must I wrestle with my thoughts
and day after day have sorrow in my heart?
How long will my enemy triumph over me?
3 Look on me and answer, Lord my God.
Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death,
4 and my enemy will say, “I have overcome him,”
and my foes will rejoice when I fall.
5 But I trust in your unfailing love;
my heart rejoices in your salvation.
6 I will sing the Lord’s praise,
for he has been good to me.
Thanks Gordie...anything to keep our spirits up and our minds clear of all of the confusion that our MLC'er tries to give us.
Gut wrenching...got a call from close friend that was told the W is questioning people at our kids school whether they'd heard rumors about our impending D. Also asked if they'd heard the untrue rumor about her having an affair. Saying that she wished I'd move on so she can start dating people. She's only been out of the house a couple of months and we aren't even divorced. I guess she's already moved on herself, but claims she doesn't want to do anything wrong...right...I mean she can't date while married can she? Haha. She's trying to cover all of her bases.
Should I confront her about the things going around or just let them lie?
It's just hard wanting to stand for your M and hearing that they are done with you.
I'm trying to let go and let God, but some days are easier than others.
Should I confront her about the things going around or just let them lie?
What would you gain here? .... this is the mess she created and you have no hand in. Her circus her monkeys.
Cali...I know, I know, I know. It is just frustrating that she is blaming people for spreading rumors and here it is that she is the one doing all of the talking. The latest one involved her wanting me to move on so she can date and that she and I had not even kissed in 15 years. This is a total lie and re-fabrication of our history. It is just a ride on the crazy train.
I have been reading on prodigal spouses lately and it is crazy how many people every year leave good marriages for the fantasy of what might be out there.
Sounds to me like she is trying to save face but is actually only stirring the pot. Leave her to it.
It's funny how she had accused me months ago about spreading rumors...I was not doing it, but I was talking with two of my close male friends and also still speaking with her sister. At that point I had told her that I would not discuss our sitch with anyone...period. From that point on if I was asked a question about what was going on my answer would be a simple one..."Please pray for my entire family".
Since then, the rumors are still swirling around, and come to find out, she's the one doing the talking. Justifying might me a good way of saying it...saving face.
We are both from broken homes and it seems she is totally living out exactly what her mother did to her father when my W was 11/12 years old. (ILYBINILWYAM/need more passion/can't give you what you deserve/can never be intimate with you again/our kids will be ok...we are)
I feel like I'm in some bad Lifetime movie.
Yep you have entered into the "Re-Written History" phase. Again common with the MLCrs as they continue to discover/fabricate reasons why leaving is the only option. Mine did'nt love me for 2, then 4 then 10 years, she also was crying during the ceremony not because she was emotional it was because she knew it was the biggest mistake she would ever make.
The repeating history thing I also experienced, I am certain MIL went through it, looks like 2 BIL and the SIL also have. Thing for you to keep in the back of your mind is you must be the rock for your kids, do what you can to put them at ease and reassure them in a loving way to try to break this cycle. That is my focus at present, I would not want my son going through a MLC because of this, so I help him try to face issues and teach him how to handle things when it gets hard .. and it will get hard.
I feel like she and I are speeding towards a cliff and we cannot stop.
Maybe some perspective...
What will actually be different in your life if you were divorced right now?
Sometimes when youre going along, you may see a huge drop, but when you get there, its really quite shallow. I find that you cant really see whats on the other side of a hill until you get to the top.
Cali...it seems like a curse of divorce...we will be the third generation divorced in each of our families. I'm worried about MLC for my kids, but also that they see...oh well, things are tough, let's just get out of this M and start with someone else. That is just the wrong way. M is a commitment for life or else it is meant to be.
Kaizen...you are correct. D is just a piece of paper and since she is already out of the house nothing else will change for me. For her, it will give her the ok to start dating OM openly and for it to be "legal". It is funny how she preaches moral clarity on all fronts to our kids, but that whole M sacrament doesn't mean anything. Sorry that is just my bitter sarcasm talking.
I have that same concern, her parents are still married ... but old school Catholics so its a bit different, her mother did leave her father for a couple years just prior to MLC hitting ... ironically she chastised her mom for her actions. My parents were married up till the death did my father part happened.
I do struggle with my son having a negative view on marriage, love, and all that comes with it. We have been dealing with this MLC for almost half his life to this point so that part causes me concern, all I can do is be the best father possible and put my full faith in God this is all for a reason.
It might affect the kids
but I think having one parent totally there may be enough to break the chain
one parent who is stable, devoted and in reality is helpful
this way the kids are not confused
they can believe what they see
mom is in a crises
dad is stable and available
just my take
Hi SBJ..
Just catching up on all of this. It really is so interesting to me how important it is to your W (and my H, by the way) to be able to "legally" date. I think maybe they are so caught up in their own distress that they feel the only thing that will make them feel better is someone else, someone who ideally does not know their history or who they were in the past, so they can just create a new persona and never deal with their issues.
It's so strange to me, because even though there are times that I waver and think about just letting the D happen, it's never because I want to see other people. In fact, I'm pretty sure I would not be interested in dating anyone for at least a year after a D because it takes time to grieve the loss of a relationship before you jump into a new one.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. You are not alone, clearly. I think it's so much harder in this limbo period, where you're still married but separated and NOT divorced, because you can't really move on and you don't have the comfort, love, and security you had before BD. You must picture life as a divorced person, even if that's not how it ends up, just to get some sense of control in your life.
Cali...some of her awesome comments on D.
1. Our parents are divorced and we turned out ok, right? She has 2 siblings (1 is a drug addict of 20 years and the other suffers from anxiety). Not to mention the fact that we are going thru this.
2. Our parents all divorced and they aren't going to hell are they? Kind of depends on your religious views. M is for life. God says he hates D. I guess if you do D and then later repent and feel sorry for what you actually did then the forgiveness is there, but to D just to take care of your selfish needs and then to simply say that you are sorry isn't truly repenting.
3. My kids have seen how a spouse truly loves his W so I know that they have seen the way to do it, but she is showing them a quick exit if you have a rough time...that is what worries me.
Peace...She is totally stable with our kids, but I guess I don't know how she is when they are alone. She is only batchitcrazy with me and now with her sister that disagrees with her. She is truly in a crisis alright...me and our M are collateral damage to her crisis.
CC...she has a need to always look good in everyone else's eyes. I have heard her say different things to justify what she is doing. She has also gotten involved with a new group from a different church in another city close by...none of which know me or my side of the story. They just know her as this wonderful, funny, beautiful woman...who has a bad M and no telling what else she has said.
I already know what D will look like because I am living it right now. Co-parenting with her and making sure my kids will get thru this. Again, we are collateral damage to her selfishness.
Yeah ... mine went with the "We aren't the only ones" argument. Which my calm reply, "You are right I am certain everyone will be so much better off this way" half meaning it and mixed in a bit of sarcasm ... something I have tried to stop personally as I realized its my passive aggressive attacks when I am not being clear in what I want.(Another growth topic for another time)
Truth is ... its out of our hands to a point, you can not trick/force them into a M they are hell bent on 'escaping' from, all one can hope to do is become a better person from all this regardless of the outcome. Keep your focus there, on THAT prize through all this.
For you football fans...Great game last night!!!
Went to church with my boys and the W yesterday. Sat next to her for the first 3/4 of the service. At some point I could feel her staring at my hand...my ring is still on. At another point they prayed for intentions...one was for all marriages, especially those going thru trials at the moment, that they may be healed. I don't know if she felt anything, but I felt a chill down my spine.
Spent the later afternoon with all of my kids cooking and prepping for a SB Party. Great night and a great game...at least the second half.
No so much for all us Atlanta fans.
Sorry for your loss...I'm a lowly C'boys fan, so I have been disappointed for 20+ years. I feel your pain, but seeing my son and his buddies hoot and holler for the win was quite rewarding. I'm just glad that they allowed me to be there with them to celebrate. Great kids with great futures.
D is just a piece of paper and since she is already out of the house nothing else will change for me.
So you feel like you are speeding off of a cliff, but in reality, you could be officially divorced right this second and nothing would change. Just try to remember that in the times when you feel lost or hopeless or defeated.
Kaizen...things in life change daily. I feel that my W is worth standing for. My faith tells me that I made a covenant with her and with God and I take this seriously. I cannot change what she feels, but I do believe that she is lost at the moment. She claims to be a devout Christian, but seems that she picks and chooses what she wants to believe in. I guess, as humans, we all do that at times, but I really thought she was like me in our views of the longevity and commitment of marriage.
I'm coming to grips with the fact that she wants to finalize the D and she also wants to date other people. I'm not sure if she is in another relationship right now, but it wouldn't surprise me due to everything I've read on these boards. I'm trying to "Let go and let God" take things from here. I am focusing on me and on my kids, while still loving her unconditionally.
SBJ,
It's curious that your W and my W are pushing for D yet still going to church as a family. Do you think this will continue after D?
Gord...her goal is for us to be great friends which we have always been. She just doesn't want to be married to me. I have heard that she wants me to get over her so that she can start dating. She only wants to look good in people's eyes. Never mind that God says he hates divorce. She can divorce me, date other people, and we can all be wonderful friends...no thanks.
SBJ,
So help me out because I am really strugggling with this. My W also says we will always be best friends. I said I want to be her H not her friend. W also says she meant her vows when she made them but she's no longer the same person so they no longer apply--how convenient! How do you manage this twisted dynamic? And yes, she cares about appearances so will not go public with her romantic pursuits until we are officially D.
She is a Sunday Christian. She says with her lips how much she believes, but her actions show otherwise. Personally you should be all in or all out when it comes to your religious beliefs. You should not pick and choose what you believe from the Bible. Or better yet...you should not try and interpret what the Bible means and then bend it to fit your desires. Like you said, she meant her vows, but doesn't now. That's BS.
Everything is all about them...you are right. Even though she feels like she spent the last 20+ years taking care of everyone else like her sisters, her parents, her kids, and her family...like most people do day in and day out. I never put any demands on her regarding anything...we never fought over the house, money, kids, work...nothing like that. Our only issue was the regularity in the romance department.
1. What was the issue regarding regularity in the romance department?
2. You also indicated she had an EA which preceded the BD. What was she getting from the EA that she wasn't getting in the M?
3. Also, has your W just drifted away from the faith...or is she in rebellion against it?
***1. What was the issue regarding regularity in the romance department?
We've been together longer than we were apart. 25 years together and she is 43. In the beginning things were great and then we had that life thing happen. 3 kids, work, volunteering, extended family obligations, etc. She has always been kind and caring, but has never been extremely passionate when it came to the bedroom. Now that she has gone thru her physical transformation...she feels she wants passion...just not with me. And claims that she will never be able to be with me again.
***2. You also indicated she had an EA which preceded the BD. What was she getting from the EA that she wasn't getting in the M?
The EA went from April-July that I know about. We didn't meet this guy until then so I know that it didn't start earlier, but I can't really say that it ended. She changed her cell service and all of her passwords so there was no way to snoop. Good for me, because I would have been OCD about it.
As for what she got out of it...she claimed they were just friends and that it was nice to have a male friend that didn't expect anything from her. I call BS on that statement. I can't speak to his intentions, but I did tell him to cut all ties with her and my family. Again...can't tell for sure if that happened. I'm sure there is some resentment from her that I ended their EA...right?
***3. Also, has your W just drifted away from the faith...or is she in rebellion against it?
She is more involved with our church and our outreach programs now than she has ever been. Again, I feel that she is putting on a costume...showing everyone an exterior of this perfect Catholic woman, but not living what she preaches. We are all hypocrites, I know and we are forgiven in God's eyes, but you can't commit a sin over and over and keep asking for forgiveness...because you aren't really sorry for what you are doing.
Maybe she is rebelling against me. I don't know. I'm no psychologist, but I know that her mother did this same thing to her father when my wife was young, and her grandmother did the same thing to her grandfather. This is a generational thing with them. None of the women were sorry for what they did, but when talking to my FIL, he desperately wanted to work things out. He didn't get the chance. He is utterly confused at why she is doing this to me and our kids, but he sees the similarity to my MIL.
SBJ/Gordie
Just a small 2 x 4. When you say "She is a Sunday Christian". Her "Actions don't match her words", this takes on a judgemental position. I'm not saying you are wrong, but understand most of us see things from our own perspective and not through someone else's eyes.
The problem with judgement is it can take on a negative aspect and this negative aspect can lead you down a path where you don't let other people's opinions or actions count.
I understand this is a tough journey. Especially when a spouse does things that you don't agree with or is in the best interest of the family. There is a line in a book from James Hollis - become comfortable with uncomfortableness. Much of life puts us in those positions.
What I get out of this is you need to put yourself first to be healthy, similar to DR, DB. Heal yourself first. Once you do I think things like judging other people's actions ie wife aren't that important and you can allow people to be who they are. Now you may not like who they become and you have some choices to make.
This is a difficult journey. I wanted to give another perspective for you to think about.
Mirage
SBJ
Starting to sense some anger coming out through your posts, its not entirely a bad thing unless as my Mentor Ur (Bless her heart( would say "Just do not live there" ... use that to fuel you to the other side of where you need to be.
I can relate to the Church/Catholic thing. Truth is I was married in a Catholic church, promised to raise our children Catholic as was the requirement. about a year after BD while I was struggling, I started going to church on my own .... a few things happened and was clearly God nudging me along I attended the RCIA program and converted to Catholicism. I was now armed with what I will just describe as Self Obtained Righteousness and could not believe my MLCr who was secretly having a full blown unapologetic affair would have the nerve to receive the Eucharist. I recall just turning beat red with rage, shame, you name it ... I wanted God to settle MY score.
I finally arrived at where I am now, her sins are her buisness and that will be between her and God ... who am I to judge .. I have my own plate of sins I have asked for continued forgiveness for. Be quick not to Judge as mirage wisely said ... thats His job right?
So as I have read a ton I knew I had seen something similar ... this was a post here by AmyC who was a MLCr and she had the courage to share quite a bit while she was here. May help you understand a bit of what your W is up against.
I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was NOTHING ANYONE could have said to me that would have moved me. As an example, right smack dab in the middle of my MLC, while practicing adultery, I sat my self-righteous butt in church and my Pastor pointed his finger straight at me one day during an altar call and he said to me "how long are you going to sit there?" He had been talking about letting the enemy influence us and destroy our families from within. At the time this happened, not one soul knew I was having an affair. Not one soul. I got called out, IN CHURCH, by a man that I had so much respect for, KNEW God had sent into my life the year before, and yet when he stood there that day, I didn't move a muscle. That is very telling of the grip the enemy had on me and I didn't even realize it. It is interesting to me that I basically lost my mind within a year of darkening the doorway of a church for the first time ever in my whole life. I got involved there, having felt "led" to that teacher for some reason.... 6 years later I know why. It's because every tool he gave me during that first year, I have had to use mightily in order to be able to stand for my marriage.
Link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741
mirage and Cali...I am trying to come to grips with it all. She is a cradle Catholic and claims to have so many strong views on her beliefs. We were asked to assist in teaching in a confirmation class. During the classes they discuss all of the Holy sacraments of the church. She believes that they are all sacred, but that whole Marriage one is not as important. Maybe she can look at the Ten Commandments and pick and choose those as well. Just Kidding...Kind of.
I realize that I have no control over her or her decisions.
I know that we all only answer to one true God for all of our life decisions.
I know what kind of man I want to be.
I'm worried about what my kids will learn by her decisions...I hope they will learn more from me on how to stand for your M and your beliefs.
I have read AmyC's posts and they truly hit home. I can only hope and pray that at some point in her journey she is touched by His Word and spirit. Until then, I'm battling with the anger vs sadness thing within myself.
I don't try to sound self-righteous as I know that I fight daily to ask for forgiveness of my own sins. At this point I can only pray for her to find the peace she desires.
***...she feels she wants passion[ate]...just not with me.***
Sigh, I've heard this one. She says she likes ML with me, but she says she's no one man can satisfy her...
***As for what she got out of it...she claimed they were just friends...***
Yes, my W said she and her POM were just friends and that she had no control over how she started feeling towards him...do you know your W's EA is completely over?
***She is more involved with our church and our outreach programs now than she has ever been.***
Maybe it's good that she's more engaged/involved? Maybe it gives her more opportunity to be touched by something there...in God's time...
At this point God is the only one that can touch her. I just posted to your thread about Amy's postings. As she said...nobody could have said anything that would've made a difference in what she was doing.
In his time all things will be revealed and healed.
Today I am trying to let go of some anger and sadness. Hard to totally let go and let God take control.
Got to talk with my S19 over dinner Tuesday night about the sitch. He says that he doesn't understand why this is happening. I told him that he is right that it doesn't make sense, but that I love his mother and am praying for her every day.
He is wise beyond his years and knows that there are no true grounds for D between us. I told him that I loved her for 25 years and would be open to reconciling with her, but that that would have to be up to her. I said that I could not force her into to doing it. She will have to come to the conclusion herself.
It was a great talk...I love my kids so much. They are truly awesome.
4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Ephesians 6:4New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Great update. This will be hard on all of the kids. I am expecting for my elementary school kids, this will be primarily emotional and don't expect them to ask the adult questions. For my teenagers, I expect them to ask all of the adult questions. Is that correct? And how much are you supposed to share with them? I don't want to bad mouth their mother at all, but I also don't want to lie about things. What amount of covering up or beating around the bush is appropriate when asked direct questions?
Great update. This will be hard on all of the kids. I am expecting for my elementary school kids, this will be primarily emotional and don't expect them to ask the adult questions. For my teenagers, I expect them to ask all of the adult questions. Is that correct? And how much are you supposed to share with them? I don't want to bad mouth their mother at all, but I also don't want to lie about things. What amount of covering up or beating around the bush is appropriate when asked direct questions?
I don't have any answers on those questions either. I have been waiting on them to ask before I say anything. I am trying to keep my head up and stay in an upbeat attitude when I am with them all. My oldest and I were alone so we were able to talk like adults...it was nice, but I did not say anything regarding her EA or that the only reason she can come up with for leaving is that she needs more passion in her life...I don't know where it says that that is ok in the Bible. Haha. My son and I had a good discussion about what God says about divorce...it was eye opening.
My D14 and my S10 have not asked me about any of what is going on. The only thing that I have said to my D14 is that I love her mother, I love all of our kids, and that we will get thru this with the help of God. My S10 is too young to really understand what is going on, but I feel that he gets exasperated sometimes when we have to load up and take him to the other house.
In the book of Matthew (Matthew 10:26b it says...Nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known). I feel that at some point the secrets will all be out in the open.
I told him that he is right that it doesn't make sense, but that I love his mother and am praying for her every day.
He is wise beyond his years and knows that there are no true grounds for D between us. I told him that I loved her for 25 years and would be open to reconciling with her, but that that would have to be up to her. I said that I could not force her into to doing it. She will have to come to the conclusion herself.
Im sorry, and I may be out of line here, but to me, this doesnt seem like an appropriate conversation to have with your son. To me, this puts a ton of your influence on his relationship with his mom. I dont know what was said by whom, but in my opinion, saying that you'd be open to reconciling, but it's up to her is placing a lot of blame on her. I dont see how you can tell your child that and have it NOT impact the way the view the other parent.
Again, just my opinion.
I don't want to bad mouth their mother at all, but I also don't want to lie about things. What amount of covering up or beating around the bush is appropriate when asked direct questions?
Its their mother's story to tell.
If they are so curious, direct them to talk to her.
Kaizen, so you are suggesting along the lines of:
D: Did you cheat on mom?
Gordie: No
D: Did mom cheat on you?
Gordie: I'll answer questions about me, but think you should talk to your mom regarding questions about her.
Kaizen, so you are suggesting along the lines of:
D: Did you cheat on mom?
Gordie: No
D: Did mom cheat on you?
Gordie: I'll answer questions about me, but think you should talk to your mom regarding questions about her.
Works for me. And I wouldnt say that it's 'bad-mouthing' or lying.
Like I said, in my opinion, thats her story to tell.
Kaizen...the point of the conversation was to let him know that I love his mother no matter what happens. He said that he doesn't understand what was happening and I told him that I did not either. I will not drag her thru the mud, but I will answer if my children ask me something. I have not and will not ever talk bad about her to them.
I don't have to say anything to them...here is what they have seen...a close family friend (male) that is always around and is always talking/texting mom on the phone alot for 3+ months and then all of the sudden he's disappeared and mom is moving out and filing for D. It doesn't take much to piece together. Again, I haven't said anything negative to any of the kids. One of these days it will all come out, but I will never say anything bad about someone that I truly love. I don't like her or what she is doing right now, but I do love her.
Kaizen, so you are suggesting along the lines of:
D: Did you cheat on mom?
Gordie: No
D: Did mom cheat on you?
Gordie: I'll answer questions about me, but think you should talk to your mom regarding questions about her.
This is basically answering the question without answering the question... in a sense throwing your W under the bus. I totally get it, you have been wronged and those of us who have been wronged ... in the worse way mind you... want validation, we want that shining armor and everyone to say .. hey look he is a stand up guy what she did was wrong. Just does not work that way now does it, so even on the subconscious level we imprint things in ourselves and those close to make sure its all out on the table .... here is the problem with that:
Certain things can not be unsaid, unseen nor undone. When it comes to the kids we as the LBS become even more angry, its not just our lives that were torn to shreds, little Billy/Sally will never know what a normal life and family will be due to our MLCrs selfishness .... not many of us voice this here but I do not think I am alone in at the least thinking it .... but you know what happens ... we continue to fill our personal resentment bucket and it will eventually spill over and now its us .. the ones who are not in crisis (well not the MLC version of one anyways) .. we are to be the rock, we are the stable one, the voice of reason and if we allow this resentment to spill over and effect our children we are missing a chance to stop this cycle. I am of the opinion this MLC crisis is passed down from generatiion to generation, dig deep I bet you will discover some turmoil/trauma from the MIL/FIL.
I know for me I will do all I can to shield my son from repeating this horrible history. If that means taking it on the chin and missing out the chance to be a martyr then so be it. I arrived to this conclusion on a nice sunny day as my then 8 year old asked me "Dad, what is a ho?" I answered refering to the garden tool and he corrected me and said "no .. the other kind of ho... Noah told me a Ho is a woman who has more than one man" Stopped me in my tracks, we are still talking about the mother of my child and the fact he would see her in that light disturbed me to no end. So I explained what the term meant and pounded the fact that his mother was not to be considered this.
With the kids sometimes you need to stand your ground as a parent and simply tell them certain things are not as they seem, they are much more complicated than one would think. Think about all of us here in MLC land ... to the majority out there whom have no understanding they would never come close to understanding what most of us have been exposed to nor how to deal with it. Do we educate them? No ... unless you have seen MLC happen to a loved one you are just not going to understand it.
Protect your children, at some point regardless of the M... regardless if you reconcile or not do not take their mother/father from them by causing unrepairable damage more than the MLCr is causing themselves ... the relationship they have with the kids is solely on them .. good/bad its their circus/monkeys ... mess to clean up when they get there.
For me my S just this week informed me that his mom and him are really forming a much better relationship, similar to what he an dI have had .... regardless of the sitch this made me smile knowing I have not allowed this crisis to destroy what should be a good relationship between my MLCr and my son provided she ever wants that (again between the two of them)
I know it hurts, you are the grown up here, you are the rock, the one who can think logically ... not the MLCr ... be that person and take one for the team ... you will be grateful later on regardless of the end result with your M
CaliGuy,
I don't want to hijack SBJ's thread, but thanks. This is exactly what I'm trying to prepare for as we approach telling the kids. How to be honest...without throwing my W under the bus. I don't want to screw this up. So what would you say?
Kaizen...the point of the conversation was to let him know that I love his mother no matter what happens. He said that he doesn't understand what was happening and I told him that I did not either. I will not drag her thru the mud, but I will answer if my children ask me something. I have not and will not ever talk bad about her to them.
Thats fine. But if I am a 19 year old, and my dad says that he loves my mom so much, but they are getting a divorce anyway....then all I can do is assume that its my mom's fault. To me, its not really that different to say "I will always love your mother" than to say "your mother isnt in love with me." It is kinda of dragging her through the mud by pointing out that you are the "clean" one.
I think its much better if you talk about your relationship with your son and other children instead of with their mother.
But again, Im not an expert and these are just my opinions.
She has already told the two older kids that her feelings have changed and that this is something she wants. She made that clear to them when she moved out.
I also always tell my kids how I feel about them...they know that I am going to always be there for them. The W has always been a great mother to them and I am glad that she hasn't run out on them like so many on here have. She is constant contact with them and the two youngest split time 50/50 between our house and her place. The oldest moved back to our local university and is now my roommate full time...pretty awesome.
CaliGuy,
I don't want to hijack SBJ's thread, but thanks. This is exactly what I'm trying to prepare for as we approach telling the kids. How to be honest...without throwing my W under the bus. I don't want to screw this up. So what would you say?
Honestly ... .kids are smart. They know, and they will put their own personal stamp on what they feel is right/worng and what happened with mom and dad. MLCrs may/may not tell the truth on this which is when the LBS feels that urge to shout what really happened from the rooftops but this just creates more damage, confusion and turmoil right? If our MLC is in crisis and has reverted to that time in their lives then we truly are the only adults in all this .. .adulting is no fun and this is one of those times.
My approach .. my S knew, she did not make an effort to hide it. So I simply told him that sometimes people change, your mom and I have most definately changed over all the wonderful time we have had together and I truly wish her peace and happiness wherever she may find it. Thats it ... and it was the truth ... I did leave out my personal pain and frustration, I will not toss her under the bus nor label her as sick. The one thing I learned through all this is the kids know they are 50% of you and 50 them ... if that other 50% is bat$hit crazy horrible monster then in fact they are 50% of that ..... I constantly tell my son he is the product of 50% of all the good things from her and I.
Hope that helps
She has already told the two older kids that her feelings have changed and that this is something she wants. She made that clear to them when she moved out.
I also always tell my kids how I feel about them...they know that I am going to always be there for them. The W has always been a great mother to them and I am glad that she hasn't run out on them like so many on here have. She is constant contact with them and the two youngest split time 50/50 between our house and her place. The oldest moved back to our local university and is now my roommate full time...pretty awesome.
SBJ
CArefull with this line of thought..... it paints you our as someone waiting on the proch steps in the rain waiting for her to return. She will sense this if not by your actions ... then by the kids feedback "Dad is a mess without you" which will reinforce to her you are there where she left you.
GAL, let those kids see you are doing ok ... they will see the bad times and "that look" you get when a memory hits as it is ... fake it till you make it.
I read a thought provoking post last week elsewhere in reference to a man going through this and how he was handling it all ... simple and to the point.
"Are you showing your children the man you would want them to marry or would wish them to be?"
Cali, thanks for the input. I am trying my best at the fake it until you make it scenario. Exercising, spending time with friends, learning to play music again, eating better, shaved the bushy beard of 4 months...look 20 years younger, trying to be a better man all around. I'm doing all of this for me...not for anyone else. When all of the kids are with me, we have a great time. When it is just me and the oldest, we do the sports and trash talk thing.
I'm not going to tell the kids that I will be pining away for 25 years waiting on their mother. But, I'd like to think that they know how I feel about her and that I'd do anything in"my" power to save my M. The oldest two already know that this is in their mothers control...because she told them it was. I have told them that with God's help we will all make it thru this thing. I didn't say that we'd get back together, but they do know about "God's will" and that ultimately we are out of control anyway.
As far as showing them the man I want them to be or to marry...I want to think that that is my goal. I realize that I wasn't. I was Mr. Nice guy and look where that has led me. I guess I want to put God first at this point and have him guide me to be the man that I am suppose to be.
SBJ
I hear a lot of growth in you
Mlc has a way of doing that to us
so in Gods plan, maybe it is good
No matter what
everyone learns grows and changes
If our kids see an adult learning from the pain as you are, they too will learn from all the pains I their lives(my opinion)
You are doing great, no doubt about that. I like what I read in your last post. You have come on a long way. You have grown.
However I didn't like you thinking that you will be pinning and waiting after her for the next 25 years. I am glad you refrained from speaking like that to your kids. But you need to change that thinking. Maybe you will choose to stand for 25 years, though I have rarely read about such cases. You honestly don't know how you will feel next month or next year.
Pinning and waiting belittle you. Your thinking shows through in your actions behaviours and attitudes. You can try hide it from the world but that rarely succeeds for long. Better to change your thinking.
I am not saying don't stand nor wait. I am pro M and that is not my point. You need to get to a point where your life is full and rich without W. She needs to know you are living and thriving without her. Turnarounds rarely occur on this site before the LBS starts truly living for themselves without looking over their shoulder to see if WAS may be becoming interested.
But more importantly than it improving your chances of turning things around it will be better for you. Otherwise life will be an empty fake grind. Fake it until you make it but you have to move forward to actually make it.
Maybe you need to close that chapter of your life. Accept it is over. Accept where you are at and just be. No need to explain the how or the why. She has left and you are enjoying life as much as you can. Forget that you are standing and start living. The fact you are standing is irrelevant for now and only relevant if she ever comes back.
I am glad you have your faith. It must really be a comfort.
Best wishes
Peace and roist...thanks for the encouragement. I feel stronger every day. I'm not saying that there aren't moments that it doesn't hit me, but I have been able to get thru those times with prayer and the knowledge that fear will no longer control me.
She and I ended up at the same get together last night. She didn't even acknowledge me. Kind of odd. I hung out and visited with old friends and made some new ones. It was enjoyable, but the reality was that had this been this same time last year I would've been standing with her hip to hip. while I miss her immensely, I also seem to like how I feel now. I would love to save my M, but it takes two and she is opting out for now. Should things change I would like to think I would want to keep some of this new independence.
Isaiah 41:10New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
10 Do not fear: I am with you;
do not be anxious: I am your God.
I will strengthen you, I will help you,
I will uphold you with my victorious right hand.
Nothing much to post, so I will simply say...Happy Valentine's Day to you all!!!
Even though I couldn't buy her any gifts from myself, I still had to take care of the things from the kids to her. We bought her flowers, candy and a card. We sneaked into her office last night after close and placed them all on her desk. I actually got a very nice call from her this morning with praise and appreciation. It was the nicest I've heard her in quite a while.
Happy V Day to you too...good job today!
Short lived happy talk...she is now back to the D talk. Wants me to hurry up and finish my paperwork for the divorce. I assume so that she can get out in the world. She says that she is almost out of her retainer money and that she has to hurry up. I typed the text back...I want you to come home. I did not send it, but that is how I feel.
Thoughts?
As someone said, sometimes they feel that they have to have complete closure before it hits them.
Thoughts?
I am in the same boat. I offer moral support but not sure I have helpful advice. My W knows I don't want D but that I won't stand in her way. Because I do all of our finances, putting the paperwork together was easy for me. I gave her everything for her to review and bring to her L the first week in January. W has dragged her feet but still tries to blame me for the fact we aren't D yet. We agree on most everything. She's frustrated that she has to talk to L and do paperwork. I have instructed my L to do nothing proactive and to only respond to requests so we are going at her speed. W sees M as an obstacle to her fantasy life, so for her D is a necessity.
Have you been dragging your feet? If so, why?
Gord, just as you I told her that I did not want to D and that if she wanted it she would have to do the work. Now it is up to paperwork on my attorneys end and I am not rushing to get it done. I know it won't make a difference, but to appease her leaving doesn't sit well with me.
She has a fantasy that her life will be great without me as well...why do I care then, right? I guess because I took my vows seriously and feel that a husband and a wife should work things out...anything. It ticks me off that she is wanting everything rushed for her convenience. We are only 7 months post-BD and she is done. Pretty fast if you ask me.
Again, my God tells me that all things are possible for those who believe in him. That includes "all things". I can't mind read, but I would think that everyone that believes in God, should believe in that statement.
SBJ--you know you are preaching to the choir. I believe in my vows and that all things are possible with God. What do you mean appeasing?
It's been six months since BD for me and my guess I will be officially D in maybe March or April. I could slow the legal process down but I don't see that as getting me closer to reconciliation. For you? Only you know. My W really needs to go on her journey without me. Maybe she comes back. Maybe she doesn't.
SBJ, Gordie -
I'm there too. BD was Jan, 2016 for me. She filed in October, when he handed me the D notice, everything in her soul said to me "I don't know what else to do". Preliminary settlement stuff is getting under way, but I don't know how long that will take.
My W also seems to be in a pretty big rush too. Last year, when I was still snooping on her - she told everybody how she couldn't wait to get me out of the house.
I read on another thread (from CaliGuy) that said to watch out here - that some MLCers may say stuff like this and seem eager to D, but when the time comes they hem & haw and fight over everything. I just read job saying that her H dragged out the D process for 2 years before she cornered him to finish it up. Indecision is part of MLC.
Of course, my W has not prepared anything for supporting herself & the kids without me. She's too busy with her social life and goofing off. It's indeed some type of fantasy. They're on a roller coaster.
Please hit me with the 2x4's quickly and put me out of my misery.
Day was going well, but unfortunately when the W texted and complained about money she is spending on her attorney I responded. I told her that we could focus on us instead of money. I guess I knew that wouldn't work as I have. Read countless times about it, but the hopeless romantic in me came out too fast.
Her response was kind of like gas lighting...saying that I just don't see it yet, but that "we" will both be much happier, that I deserve someone that will love me how I need to be loved, that she loves me just not the way a wife needs to love a husband for a successful M....again, they were all words they have all said before. Saying we will always be family, just with a different dynamic. She said that in time I will truly agree with her. That I just don't see it yet. And one day I will see what we were missing.
Basically saying that I need to move on and push the D thru. I should've never sent it I know, but I did. Now to finish my few D papers. Stinks because this could be totally done by her bday in April. What a gift. Here, you failed at your M...Happy Birthday!!! Sorry that this is laced with anger, sarcasm and bitterness. I need to detach completely.
I am sorry that she responded the way she did, but that's MLC stinking thinking. In her own way, she's not only complaining about the fees, but she was also pushing you to do whatever you need to do on the paper work. Take your time and be sure to read everything over and if you have questions, ask your lawyer. Don't allow her to push you to do something you aren't ready to do.
Breathe! Step back and take care of yourself.
I told her that we could focus on us instead of money.
Her response was kind of like gas lighting...saying that I just don't see it yet, but that "we" will both be much happier
Incredible how much this is script. My XH said EXACTLY the same to me, and almost word for word on the rest. He actually said, "You just haven't given it a chance, but if you try to wrap your head around it, you'll see that you don't like me. This is our best chance at happiness." I got various versions of this each time I lost my cool and lapsed into an R talk (or R "beg").
Funny thing is, I AM happier; but not really because we're D. That was just the kick in the rear that I needed to work on what made me unhappy (I really didn't realize how unhappy I was). If I had done then what I am doing now...I'd love to say our marriage would be perfect. But really, he's in an MLC. For everything he says or does, if you just wait a few weeks, it changes 180 degrees. I really believe in moving forward and letting them go through this. Alone.
SBJ, it stinks. We are forced to give them the "gift" of D. It really does change the dynamic of our families, too. But it also frees us up to work on who we are and strengthens us. I miss my H every day. Cry a bit with anger and sadness when alone. But great things are happening in my life every day, too, because I've finally made room for them. Will our loved ones find the need to do similar work? Only if and when they can similarly take the focus (usually anger) off of us and really focus on them...not just the band-aid focus of "youthful", selfish behavior, but real introspection. I think without us there, they may have a chance to do that. But it will take time.
All we can do is live our lives separately at that point, treat them kindly (even through gritted teeth at times) and wish them well on their journey. Maybe they will find that we weren't the problem.
Gordie: I didn't know this was part of the script too, but sadly I have heard these exact words too:
"we will both be much happier"
"we will always be family"
These words are daggers to the heart. I have no advice today, but just want to offer support.
SBJ: Sorry that this is laced with anger, sarcasm and bitterness. I need to detach completely.
Gordie: No need to apologize. Vent, vent, vent here...get it out of your system. Hugs.
Sorry
I know how much those words hurt
I got practically the same lines a few years back
This is where they are today
It may change
main thing is to take care of yourself
you will heal more and know more in time
Thank you job, cil, and Gord...it was a rough night. I couldn't even stomach the bourbon that I had poured just before I read her email.
Another tidbit that stuck out to me in her response is that she referred to the fact that, "one day you will have that and see what we were missing", like she already knows. I know I'm mind reading, but it sure seems that she is kind of talking like she has already found what was missing with some OM. I know I am speculating, but I guess that is the bitterness talking.
Just got another text from the W saying that it is time to make the final decision and have it put on paper. She is tired of living in this limbo, because it is stressful and dragging things out is not good for either of us.
I love my W, but I do not like who she has become. I really didn't know that she was as manipulative and pushy as she is. This is definitely all about her and her needs for sure.
It is funny...she says she is sorry that I feel the way I do. Wait a minute...she is sorry that I love her, she is sorry that I think that with God we can work thru anything, she is sorry that I feel keeping our family whole is a good thing...she is sorry all right!
Sorry, but I am totally venting.
You can't miss, what you have never lost....
Just something to think about.....
Thanks Mach1...I am still trying to get that to sink into my thick skull. I have to resign myself that I will have to only focus on me and my three wonderful kids. I need to not even think or worry about what she is doing or who she is doing anything with. This is her journey to walk, but it is also time to find/reinvent myself.
I will continue to pray that God touches her and opens her eyes to the truth of his word and promises, but that is all I can do for her from this point on.
Thank you for your helpful perspective. I know that with God all things are possible and with the help of good friends like you guys, the journey is a bit more bearable.
SBJ, your wife has the behavior of someone in full EA or PA, she seems way to much in a hurry to date again, she just wants to be able to live openly was she has underground right now. That's my opinion, I can be wrong, but most of the time, those in hurry to divorce have already someone else. I hope my analysis is not too cruel for you.
May be slowing down the process of the divorce, will put some extra pressure on her, right now she is in "control", see how she might react when her well orchestrated plan won't unfold the way she thought it will be.
Her rush might also be related to her faith, she knows she is right now a sinner, so trying to get a divorce fast will ease her mind, once she is divorced she won't be one anymore.
Another thought, since your children are living with her and she is trying to convince everybody she has nobody right now, being delayed in her plan, might forced her to show her true face at one point, MLCers are not patient at all, they live in the moment. I don't think she is ready to face others in regard of her "behavior", she seems very self conscious of her reputation, she knows deeply that's wrong and it will bring some sigmate upon her.
Don't forget MLCers love themselves very much, so they are very sensitive to how they are perceived by others. That's why also they are sometimes nice to us, just to keep us under their influence so we won't say a word against them. They know somehow how to play with our feelings to reach their goals.
As soon I refused being influence by my husband, and I started to show my teeth (with dignity and no spew), he understood things where not going to be so easy, it forced him out of his la la land. I stood my ground and my boundaries, life became far less easy so de facto nice for him. Fantasy land didn't have the same taste anymore.
Hope you didn't mind too much my input as a woman, also I had a very good friend who became a WW and left her H, she played all of us so well, best liar in town, she had OM underground for a few months.
I am piecing with my husband right now, but the day I realized I had to stand up for myself that the day things started to change. God showed me the doors, but it was up to me to turn the knob knots, he is our guide but the actions should come from us.
She is still in full replay, it can last up to 2 years in average, so you really need to earn some time, helping her is going against you, her fantasy land should meet reality not being facilitated. Imagine if she is getting a divorce fast and she remarry fast, where will be you left? It is to your advantage to slow down the process. Unless you are unlucky, MLC doesn't last forever. It's a marathon, but there is a finish line at some point.
Sorry for those 2'X4', but you seem such a great man and father, being too consilient will make only her "dreams" becoming reality faster.
skyhigh...Thanks for the comments.
YES, I also think that she is in either EA/PA/Fantasy, but nothing has been seen since mid-July around the point of BD. You are not being cruel, since it is basically a symptom of MLC.
I haven't rushed for anything with regard to the D process, but I haven't dragged my feet either. I am just doing things as they need to be done.
She is definitely trying to keep her reputation in a positive light. She is a cradle Catholic, but obviously not a true believer of what is taught. She feels that since our parents divorced that it is OK for us to do it. It also depends on your strength of faith as to what you believe about D...some think that D means that you aren't married any more, but others believe that you will always be married in God's eyes.
We are actually splitting custody 50/50...one week on and one week off. This has been terrible for me as I would love for my kids to be with me 100% of the time, but I deal. I think that on her week off, she is kind of dark, so nobody knows what she is really doing. I am trying to detach even more so that it doesn't bother me.
As far as her influence, I agree with you. I think that I have still been letting her control my moods and emotions, but I am getting better. She is great at trying to bend you to believe her thoughts and feelings are the best way to go. I am tired of the semi-manipulative behavior. She knows how I feel and that I do not think that D is the best way to go. She knows that I believe that God can and will guide us thru a successful reconciliation if she and I would only ask for his help. She is not willing to go there.
I do not mind your thoughts as I can honestly say, that no man will ever understand a woman truly, but even more so a woman going thru a MLC. And your thoughts on how they are the best liars in the world probably hold true. She would never treat her family the way she is treating them now, and I am not only talking about me. The two family members that are enabling her she has kept a close relationship with. The two that have disagreed with...one has been excommunicated by her and her father has simply stopped discussing it with her so that she will not disown him. He is non-confrontational by nature anyway.
I strive to be better every day...a better husband, father, son, and brother. I thank you for your input and I too belive that "What does not kill you makes you stronger". I believe that God is working on her in her quiet time and will eventually see his light.
skyhigh...Thanks for the comments.
YES, I also think that she is in either EA/PA/Fantasy, but nothing has been seen since mid-July around the point of BD. You are not being cruel, since it is basically a symptom of MLC.
I haven't rushed for anything with regard to the D process, but I haven't dragged my feet either. I am just doing things as they need to be done.
She is definitely trying to keep her reputation in a positive light. She is a cradle Catholic, but obviously not a true believer of what is taught. She feels that since our parents divorced that it is OK for us to do it. It also depends on your strength of faith as to what you believe about D...some think that D means that you aren't married any more, but others believe that you will always be married in God's eyes.
Just wanted to jump in on this one .....
My MLCr too is a cradle Catholic, shortly after BD I found myself at my own personal rock bottom and with some not so gentle nudging from God I went through RCIA and became Catholic. This armed me with knowledge of the faith along with a full backpack of righteousness I could hurl at my MLCr at will. I recall attending mass and receiving the Eucharist and watching my MLCr do the same knowing she was in a full on affair ... was a gut punch and I could not believe she would do such a thing while committing a mortal sin .... I also did not understand at the time how God was allowing such disrespect.
Over time as my faith grew, along with my understanding and relationship with God, I checked myself ... not my place to judge ... not even close with all I have done. Be careful about tossing the Good Book at her in such ways, God works with us in His own way on His own timeline, its a mere blip for Him, where for us it seems like eternity. I caution you because this line of thought that I highlighted is the path to resentment, instead just simply pray for her and give her and your M to God and do not allow this crisis to ruin more lives than it already has.
the W texted and complained about money she is spending on her attorney I responded. I told her that we could focus on us instead of money.
So what do you think would have been a better response?
No Cali, I understand. What I was referring to is her explanation of her belief in the sacrament of marriage. I also try my best not to judge others due to my past transgressions, but I also know that once you repent of those past deeds, you are truly forgiven.
I have also been to Mass with her recently and not taken the Eucharist myself because of my feelings at the moment. I actually need to work on myself alot more. I cannot control what she believes...that is between her and God.
Without throwing the good book at her...most cradle Catholics don't read it. They allow others to interpret its meaning to them. I have been trying to do both...read what I can and ask a Deacon friend of mine to explain when I am stumped. I also have a wonderful group of men that are a true Godly support to me. I am working with a psychologist to create a men's support group at my church. With those groups of strong men, it has been easy to understand that we are all going thru trials of different kinds.
My stand has been so much shorter than yours and I truly don't understand what you have been thru, but it feels like she is on the fast track to D. It kills me, but I again understand that this is her doing and not mine. God's timing is perfect and I am not going to question it.
Well ... I do not think its just Catholics, many Christians in general pick and choose what they want and apply what they will. The more I learn the more I realize I have done/do the same and its something I continue to look at and try to get better with.
MLCrs will do as they will do, unfortunately this just takes time for them to complete the journey and there is no guarantee at the end of it ... but then again there never was, we all just assumed the happily/ happily enough ever after.
As far as the fast track to D ... yeah ... mine did the same, then let it sit, then was hell bent again .. then let it sit ... back and forth she went till now, I do not think its much more than trying to see if this is finally the way to happiness, or possibly with all that has happened she simply feels there is no return, to much scorched earth to try to fix ... maybe both or none of the above ... really impossible to know what is going on with them especially in my case now where there is little to no contact. Her lawyer asked me how I felt .. calmly I told her that if she felt this was the path to her peace and happiness then I want that for her, I was sincere and meant it .... throughout all this keep in mind as painful it is to be the LBS ... being the MLCr is much much worse, one day I do believe most of the MLCrs will wake up at some point and that realization of "My God what have I done" will not be an easy thing to face for any of them.
I recall attending mass and receiving the Eucharist and watching my MLCr do the same knowing she was in a full on affair ... was a gut punch and I could not believe she would do such a thing while committing a mortal sin ....
I thought of this. I remember reading this, and it freaked me out:
I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was NOTHING ANYONE could have said to me that would have moved me. As an example, right smack dab in the middle of my MLC, while practicing adultery, I sat my self-righteous butt in church and my Pastor pointed his finger straight at me one day during an altar call and he said to me "how long are you going to sit there?" He had been talking about letting the enemy influence us and destroy our families from within. At the time this happened, not one soul knew I was having an affair. Not one soul. I got called out, IN CHURCH, by a man that I had so much respect for, KNEW God had sent into my life the year before, and yet when he stood there that day, I didn't move a muscle. That is very telling of the grip the enemy had on me and I didn't even realize it. It is interesting to me that I basically lost my mind within a year of darkening the doorway of a church for the first time ever in my whole life.
I agree...I own that I can do better, but the damage and scorched earth have all come from her side. I admit that I was ignorant at the beginning on how to talk to her about things, but I am learning. She is still throwing jabs at times that are gut punches.
I also think that the majority of them come out to a realization of what they have done and either make amends or simply continue with their charade since it is easier than asking for forgiveness from all those they hurt. Too bad there isn't a real life stat on that.