Hello, I have been posting on the Newcomers thread and I think its time to move to the MLC forum.
Link to my thread in Newcomers:
First Post My WS and I have been M 17 years and together 20. We have no children together and its our 2nd marriage. My WS has a had emotional issues with depression that stems from being molested by her father as a child. She has been in counseling off and on over the years and started with a new counselor in July. She had deep depression in Feb/Mar of 2016 and was in a cycling accident in May, where she was almost run over by cars, which I think started this MLC.
I look back at this summer and I see the signs I wasn't picking up then...she became even more dedicated to fitness, joined a bike club, started running, reread "Younger Next Year", listening to more current music, etc.
I have read numerous posts, completed DR and other books too many to post here. She told me on October 1st, ILYBNILWY and that she met someone on Labor Day weekend and was in love with him. "soul mate". I did all of the wrong things, except we started counseling. I worked on her with pressure and proof from articles and readings that showed why this affair wouldn't last, etc. She has been asking me for space and time since mid-October and in counseling admitted that she knows that this may not last and the odds are against it, but her feelings are so deep she has to see what this is all about.
We go to counseling tomorrow night to finalize our trial separation with NC, managed by our therapist. The thought from the therapist is that WS isn't aware of the impact of leaving our M and what her new relationship will be until she's living without the M. I am in a pretty good place, as I have been using LRT for the last 2 weeks with good results and her attitude me has been different. She texts me or calls me often now. She moved in with OM immediately after our last therapy session, which is good....she's had a couple of weeks of two teenage kids, a crappy house, with an introverted guy who has few if any friends.......she will see what the reality of this is and it won't be me telling her about it.
Next week she is moving into her own apartment for 3 months. Her counselor told her she needs her own space and she is doing just that. We have our beautiful house up for sale and I am GAL....which she is beginning to notice (a friend told me she mentioned that to her). I have nothing left to lose and this point and time is on my side. So I am practicing patience and GAL.
I would love to hear thoughts or ideas, this post is already too long and I have more information I could've added to this, but please offer your input.
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but we've got a lot of wonderful people posting here who will be happy to come by and visit w/you, i.e., support you, give advice and/or opinions, as well as just to talk about life in general. So, I'm going to paste Cadet's Welcome Posting here for you to begin some brand new homework. Read as much as you can about MLC and depression and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them.
Here's Cadet's Welcome Posting:
OK so that means MORE homework.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmMichele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________
Me-62, D30,S28
Job, Thank you. I have visited and read many of these links already and they are very helpful. Detachment part is great!
I appreciate all of the input from this site and really believe that these tools and the moderators/contributors are the reason I am where I am today in this process. I am sure I will have down days and up days, but I am confident that I will have many more days to come....thank you DB'ers for all of your sharing and guidance!
welcome 2 tours
patience is key and taking care of yourself -It can be a long journey, but as we travel we learn and grow; so its all good-
Sound like you are doing the right things
you will see more and get more information as time passes
we all get the speech..many MLCers have affairs so seems she is following the MLC script so far
keep posting and have a peaceful night-
peacetoday,
Thank you for responding. I will keep posting and stay the course, I know this will be a long haul and I am prepared to do what it takes to GAL and in the meantime see where this leads me.
I need a little advice.....my WS is coming over Sunday to pack some things for her move on Monday to her own apartment. Should I make sure to not be around on Sunday or should I be home? Reminder, as of Dec 1st, I will have NC with her for the month of December and I leave Monday AM for a business trip for the week.
Some people stay in another part of the house while they are packing up their stuff. If you don't think that you can handle her doing this in your presence, then I would suggest you leave for a while. It's really up to you as to whether you stay or go out for a bit...what is your gut telling you to do?
My gut is telling me to stay, but I'm committed to LRT as well, which I have seen positive results with. So if I stay, I need to keep a distance and limit the conversation.
If you stay, then find something to do in another part of the home or in the yard. You do not need to stay in the area that she is packing. Be civil, but don't be overly friendly. Stay calm and if she talks to you, look her in the eyes and keep your voice level and calm.
Good advice. Just so you know, I have been entirely civil and calm throughout this process. I see no value in being anything else and I know that she's the only one that can change her mind.
I think it would be better if I wasn't around, as GAL is real and her seeing that I am, serves as a reminder of the potential loss of the safety net she sees me as.
Every day I feel a little stronger with my DR technique and find myself less curious of her life.
Ok, so we had our last couples counseling session tonight before we do a 30 day trial separation with NC. I noticed that WS seemed tired and a little stressed out.
The therapist asked us for an update and WS told her that she has been staying with OM the last couple of weeks, but gets the keys to her own apartment this Friday. Therapist asked WS if she's experienced any emotion yet and WS said she was sad because on the way to the appointment she realized that she was really going to miss me and that going 30 days without speaking or communicating with me would be tough. She talked about how hard it's been that she has so few friends and people to talk to, as all of our friends have turned away from her. There is one friend that is willing to talk to her without judging her and she said that she is going to talk to that friend. Therapist asked her what she expected from that conversation and she said reconnection and as well, if we were to get back together she could see that it would help of this friend was supportive.
Therapist asked me where I was in this and I said that I have gone through many stages including grief and anger, but with all of the support I am getting, I can see my future and I am not afraid of it. I said that I this is a major checkpoint for me and that I will be a better man for WS or anyone else that I decide to be with.
The rest of the conversation was about what you would expect from an MLC spouse....moments of revisionist history and denial and then moments of some clarity.
I left the office thinking a couple of things:
We are both going to continue therapy while we are in NC, separately every other week,which is encouraging as if she was truly out she wouldn't bother.
WS said more times tonight, "if we get back together" than any time before
WS is definitely feeling the loss of friends and family finally.
WS is denying the grief that will come, but as stress mounts, she will have to deal with it.
WS is following the direction of her counselor and getting her own space, as she has been told to so that she can work through this.
I put a lot of the right messages out there tonight, to show that I am GAL and on the upswing.
So that is the concise version. I think the signs of stress, WS saying how tired she is, etc are all something to think about as this is catching up to her and she's denying it.
I am not very confident that 30 days will change much, but I am feeling that she is starting to see some of the future and who knows what's next......Hey Trump won the election so anything is possible. In the meantime I will keep working on GAL and preparing for what I want out of my life with or without her.
Well first holiday without WS...fortunately I have all of the friends and family you can ask for so I won't be alone. But no doubt some sadness has crept in. I am GAL and staying true to LRT....WS texted me to check in...I really put out the information at our last counseling session that I am not a safety net and that I am working on myself and moving forward. She seems softened to me, she is definitely feeling the stress of the sitch, so I am thinking she is headed into the acknowledgement phase of this.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you LBS, I hope and pray that all of us can enjoy the peace and joy of those who choose to surround us on these days.
2Tours...I am definitely in the same situation. My W and kids are doing Thanksgiving out of town. This is the first time in 19 years that I'm without at least one of my kids and the first in 25 without my W. She sent a TM earlier telling Happy Tday. I just responded in kind. Totally missing them, but it is best to try and have the best time we can have.
We are blessed to have such a wonderful group to support us in our time of need.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.
SBJ, I feel for you and now that it's nighttime and I'm home alone, is when its the toughest. I know that things may still workout, but I'm not sure I can wait as I would like to have someone to share the holiday with as well.
Counting my blessings and thank you for responding, I hope you go through the day well and that you have a great weekend.
Well we count down towards Dec 1st, and our 30 day NC trial separation. I have noticed that WS is checking in with me a little more frequently. We texted this morning and she asked me about keeping the cleaning lady and I asked her what she wanted to do...she wants to keep for now, until we decide what we are going to do...even though she wont be living here for the next 3 months. I am getting the feeling that she is stressed out and the happiness and excitement of the PA is waning. Although she continues on with it, she is struggling to stay as excited about it as she was. This is according to friends that have seen her or talked to her,
So LRT is still going strong, as we wind out November. The hardest part of this is not knowing whats happening for the month. I will keep working on GAL, posting and reading.
I really need the support of this group, so if anyone can jump in and toss me a bone, please do so. Thank you!!
Here's a bone!
2tours, sounds like you are doing great. Keep on the path. Let her learn it's not so fun out there on the so-called green grass.
NC will be hard! I have been meaning to ask, the IC recommended it? why? I ask because my H's IC said we should do such a thing, never exactly explained why he thought it was good. I agreed because of advice here FWIW.
Altair, Thank you for the bone!
Our therapist thinks my WS was living two lives..taking the best of both worlds. So the NC trial separation is a way to have WS live in what would be her new world. My WS has shown no emotion about what's happening to this point. However at our last counseling session before NC, she said she was sad and when asked why she said because shes going to miss me.
The therapist has been trying to get her to exhibit some form of emotion and she hasn't yet, so this is a sign that maybe she's coming out of replay and into acknowledgement. We shall see.
interesting 2tours. Like i said, i have no idea H's IC's plan, it all came from him, who knows what really transpired or why. I'm at a month NC now. So, we can surely discuss...
Well WS is here packing up her things...she seems happy, singing and enjoying herself. I think its all a BS cover...believe nothing you see and half of what you hear....
I am staying out of the way, being courteous, helping here and there with a heavy box, etc. LRT!!
I know that I won't see her again until 2017, so I am using my best skills today and will be off to my own in about an hour or so.
This isn't as hard as I thought it would be, but its still hard nonetheless.
Well she's gone and as much as she was singing and trying to show how happy she was, I am sure its BS....nothing you see and 1/2 of what you hear!! I am glad I won't be here when the movers come.
The one thing that keeps me in this is that she is going to see our therapist throughout Dec, so something is driving her to keep exploring this sitch. She also has her own counselor as well, who wants her to live alone. So who knows where this leads....its not over until its over. I have to keep GAL and detach.....but its easier to write that here than it is to live it out.
yes, it is easier to write that than to live it, but we must still do our best.
so, today is Sunday. What do you plan to do with your day? Go for a walk? Take yourself to a movie? Check out a new restaurant? (Take out is ok) ... go to a museum? Do something you've wanted to do for a while but your wife had no interest in OR do something you wouldn't ordinarily do just to see what it's like.
The possibilities are endless and are yours for the taking. Carpe diem!
xo
Thank you!! I am going to get in a good workout, watch some NFL football and do my best to enjoy the day,...I have to accept the things I cannot change and play out this process while GAL.
Your support is priceless!
Good! Sounds like a plan. I am doing laundry, have cleaned a bit and will watch the Pats/Jets game with some friends as we demolish the leftovers ...
2Tours, we are all in this together. Never feel like you're alone. You can always come here where people understand what you're going through because we've been there.
Hope you are having a great day!
xoxoxo
Enjoy your game and your leftovers!! I have had a good day and I have made some good progress on detachment. Traveling this week on business, which will help with a change of scenery...take care and thank you for the attention.
xoxoxoxo right back to you!
safe travels!
game was ugly, but my guys pulled it off and the leftovers were yummy.
we are here if you need us.
Well WS moved her things out today to her apartment for the next 3 months. We start NC on Dec 1st for 30 days, so we will see what this brings. I am reading a fascinating book called "The Obstacle is the Way". Its really helping me understand challenges in general and how our mindset can overcome them.
I am in Chicago on business and feeling better....maybe the change of scenery helps after all(bttrfly said this would be good for me).
WS has called me a couple of times today and told me she was going to right up till we go dark. GAL and still have hope that she feels the loss in December.
Have a nice trip 2tours. I'm jumping the gun here, but curious as you planned your NC: what did the IC(MC?) say, for a month and then what? you'd contact each other, see the C, what was the entire plan or do you not have one?
I ask because as you know my H's IC, according to him, said we should do the same thing. But it was more of something foisted upon me, with no plan or end or why or how it fit in to anything.
Anyway. Stay warm!
You know that old saw, 'How can I miss you if you won't go away?'
I'm not advocating geographic cures, just to be clear. I'm saying getting out of your comfort zone a bit is good for you.
The book sounds interesting. I will check it out. I'm all about the mindset these days, as that's about the only thing anyone has any control over. My goal is unfailing politeness and cheerfulness to the best of my ability.
Have you ever been to Chicago before? I have a friend who is from there. He recommends Wrigleyville or Millennium Park. If you prefer museums, the Science and Industry museum is allegedly "fing awesome"... next to Soldier Field Bears Stadium which is also next to Millennium Park.
Hope you have time to do one thing that gets you out of your comfort zone. Carpe Diem!
(oh and apparently "Navy Pier is the sh!t too"
go figure!
2tours to add some thoughts:
In your sitch, as painful as it is, it sounds like the MC is being fair (or swinging in your favor a bit) in the sense that your W made her bed and now she must lie in it.
It already seems the wind has been taken out of her sails and she's not happy, and you know this. I feel this is positive for you and allows you to go NC and GAL and strengthen yourself. Sounds like you are doing it right.
It's so interesting to compare our situations, it's helped me to read yours to realize what parts are bothering me, why, and how I can re-focus. My H framed the NC, and saying his IC said he should take space to heal, to get away from me, to be happy-- obviously demonizing me in the process. I've allowed his slant to affect my NC Gal, but I shouldn't! I need to follow your power lead!
Altair, Trip is going very well.
We are going NC for a month. We go to separate counseling appointments, alternating wach week for the month. We will meet back at the therapist office in January to see what we found out and what we would like to do going forward. She said it can go one of three ways. 1) We decide to end our relationship, 2) We decide to move forward together to work on our relationship, which the therapist would structure dating, etc. Or 3) We decided to go another 30 days of NC or work on counseling while we workout our issue, while not doing NC.
The whole process will be managed by our therapist and we worked with her to develop a personal non-binding agreement.
Bttrfly, I come to Chicago often for business and its a great city. A lot to do and very friendly people. I did have some fun, but mainly I am here to work and I've taken some chances in my job to move forward. Today I made a great presentation to our senior team and it went very well.
Getting my confidence up and moving forward. Carpe diem!
Hi 2tours,
glad to hear about your awesome presentation.
I think your C plan is good (and mature, if I may use that word) and fair to all and perhaps less stressful than a nebulous state.
Hang in there,,,,he LRT I did was the best move I could make,,,leading to this NC. I left her seeing me in a different light, I feel more in control of what I want and I think thats a powerful place to be.
Stick with your plan and try LRT....it really works.
Have a good night and think peaceful thoughts.
Hi 2 tours,
LRT for you was what exactly?
Altair, I took it right from the Divorce Remedy book.....I did a 180, removed myself from any conversation with her that she didn't start. I only spoke about me and I limited information on what I was doing. I asked her nothing and I mean nothing, about her, how she was doing, where she was, nothing! Every conversation I projected a positive image of myself, so that she could see that I was moving on.
I can tell you that her tone changed within a week and she began to text me or call me daily. I played this out all the way till tonight where she called me for the last time in 30 days...tomorrow we start NC. She wanted to know how my trip went, etc...I shared somethings, but not everything. She told me how happy she was for me and that she really sensed a change in me. She wasn't too energetic as she moved this week and got her period today....which she volunteered to me, since I never ask her anything about her.
So we enter this period of silence with her starting to cycle and me moving ahead with my life at full steam. I left it on a high note...she said she would be rooting for me and I told her I rooting for her too We will see if any of this wakes her up. If not, I will be GAL in December and life will go on.
LRT for me worked great, as it led me to detachment as well. Let me know if you have anymore questions. Take care!
Well the first day of NC seemed easier than the last day of contact. I am not sure why, but I feel a relief not having to hear from WS for a while. I am GAL and going to work hard on myself this month, enjoy the holidays and the visit from my son later in the month.
I have one question for everyone out there....why would my WS continue to going to therapy. get her own apartment and move out of OM house? I know her IC wanted her to do so, but why is she even bothering to do so?
HI 2Tours,
I know that this is puzzling. I know that you want an answer. I'm not sure your wife even knows the answer.
I read recently that the best thing we can do for our own peace of mind is stop trying to get inside their heads.
Someone else may have a different POV, but I thought I'd share this in case it was helpful.
I'm not surprised you felt relief. You know now that you have a month of nc, so you have a month of not having to anticipate what lunacy might come at you from the MLC wormhole.
Do you decorate for the holidays? What sorts of GAL activities are you planning?
Bttrfly,
It's nice to know I can count on you for a response! I get your point, I guess what's weird is that if you're gone and its truly over, why go through the rest of this? A month with NC will be calm and for sure I will spend less time decoding what she is saying and doing.
As far as GAL, I have a great group of friends who won't let me be alone much. They are very supportive of my standing and we have some nice events that we are going to. One of the events is our own annual charity event for chirstmas, taking care of less fortunate families.
Yes I decorate and I will be decorating this year as well. Overall I am in a pretty good place.
How are you doing and what do you have planned for the holidays? Sorry about Gronk!
yes I agree it's odd, but they aren't in their right minds. She could be keeping a toe in the relationship while she tests being out of it ... she could genuinely not know what she wants ... my stbxh said he was terrified, but it didn't stop him from destroying our family.
Good for you and your group of friends. I had a small group also. They saved me.
Meh - I'm ok ... better than a few days ago, thanks for asking. I don't really have holiday plans. the D is final on 12/21 so .. not really sure what happens after that - maybe I turn into a pumpkin? or a snowball?
Son is looking forward to Christmas so I will decorate and do whatever he wants to make it special for him. Spending Christmas Eve with my dear friend and her family as we've done for the past several years. This is first year without H. I didn't go last year as I just couldn't face it...
Oh, Gronk is very upsetting. Darn Maddon curse! But you know the Pats, "Do your job" and "Next man up" we'll see! xo
Well my WS reached to a good friend yesterday to have breakfast with him. This is the same person she told the therapist that she wanted to reconnect with in our last session. They are both accountants/finance people, so they've always had a good relationship and trust. He and his wife are our best friends and WS told the therapist that she was hoping to reconnect with him, as he is a very good friend. When pressed about what she wanted from this conversation, she said to reconnect and if we were to get back together, she saw this friend as a key support person in the rest of our friends accepting WS back,
So part of me is encouraged by this as WS is following through on her commitment to therapist and seems to be showing some signs of acceptance. We will see how the breakfast goes, as WS and I are on NC for the month of December.
Any thoughts?
expectations set to zero.
no mind reading.
how's the weekend going?
oh found a mug with this on it while Christmas shopping yesterday:
peace.
it does not mean to be in a place
where there is no noise, trouble
or hard work. it means to be in
the midst of those things and still
be calm in your heart
bought it for myself.
Going very well. I co-hosted a party with some great friends last night to give four needy families a Christmas, it was fun and rewarding. Headed out to the brewery with some friends to watch some football and just had a great ride on my new Peloton indoor spin bike.
I do have little expectation, but I am encouraged that this is moving forward in some way.
Have a great day!!
I love it!!! Now fill it up with something you enjoy and embrace the work you've have done to improve yourself. You're becoming a better version of you every day!
Well that didn't last long....WS showed up at the house after breakfast with our friend. She was looking for the pads to fit the Swiffer she took and her bowling ball. Acted like this was no issue, I called it to her attention and she wanted to get her things, see how I was doing etc. It was a pleasant visit, I asked her nothing about herself, she praised me on how well she hears I am doing.
Total temperature check. I have been very busy and enjoying my free time. Getting into the best shape of my life, meeting many new people and I think she is seeing me sailing away,
Well, off to meet some friends....have a great day...Carpe Diem!
Sounds great 2Tours - I hope you enjoyed your day.
Not so sure about the free access to the house - you may want to set a boundary that she has to call first and schedule a time. That way you can chose to not be there if that is your preference to maintain the NC.
I agree w/Andrew on setting a boundary about your wife popping in whenever the notion strikes her. After all, she left and now the home is your space and she needs to understand that she doesn't have the right to come back there any time she wishes. There are consequences to her actions...she needs to schedule a date and time w/you and if you so decide not to be home, then so be it...but she did give up the right to free access to your safe space (home).
yeah, i'm in agreement here --- NC means NC.
Carpe Diem!
NC also means no cheating on the no contact, lol
Andrew and Job,
I totally agree with you both. This NC was drawn up by our therapists and she acted like it was nothing. I sent our therapist a text to get her thoughts, but she can't come over and do a temp check anytime she wants. I know she's starting to see the truth of her choice, that's why she has to stay away and live with it.
I agree, but the no cheat went out the window a couple of months ago. She live by her own rules now, so I have to reinforce mine.
She had breakfast with a good friend and she asked many times how I was doing..why would she even care anymore?
She's not ready to let you go yet or her actions are catching up with her and she's not liking the consequences. cautious optimism, maybe? deferring to Job on this one ... i want to say be hopeful but there's this niggling voice in the back of my head that says these things take a long time to work themselves out (things being MLC)
Yes, I know this takes time and I have little optimism. I know in MLC there is plenty of cycling and I know that's what's happening, but I can see that acceptance is encroaching and we will we what happens next. I will have the therapist reinforce the boundaries for our NC, that we agreed on.
I am operating from a place where I see little chance we survive this MLV, which saves me future disappointment and faster recovery,
i hope you both do survive this and are stronger for it xoxoxo
MLCers do not like to lose the string that binds them to you. They like to know that you are right where they left you pre crisis. In your wife's case, she's not happy w/the changes that are happening in her life and yes, she's having to face some of those consequences now, especially w/the holidays right around the corner.
As for her questioning a friend about you, it could be that she's curious because you aren't begging, pleading, etc., but going on w/your life the best way that you can. It also could be that she's trying to find out if you are seeing someone even though you're not. She feels guilty and ashamed of what she's done and continues to do and if you were dating, this would alleviate some of her guilt.
I would remain hopeful, but keep those expectations very, very low. The holiday season tends to bring some of them closer to their families and once the holiday is over...back out there once again.
It's going to take some time for her to wake up, so leave her in the MLC oven for a while longer. You'll know when she's baked because she'll do everything humanly possible to prove to you that she wants to reconcile. She's got a lot of heavy, hard work to do before that happens.
Continue moving forward and keep the focus on you.
Thank you, I am holding out some hope too.
Job, Thank you for your very well thought out response.
I will take all of this to heart and yes, I am GAL and it feels good. I think what you're saying has a lot of merit and I know that this will take time. It's hard to stand, but I am getting very good at it. Having some hope, although low, will keep me holding the rope a little longer.
I am focusing more on me than I was weeks ago and I am feeling stronger every day....I wish I had written that song!
Got in touch with our therapist and she spoke with WS, who agreed to honor our 30 day NC going forward...we will see.
Spoke in depth to my friend who had breakfast with WS Sunday AM and he said she asked about how I was doing a couple of times and he told her that I was well and that he has seen some changes in me the last couple of weeks. She told him that getting her own apartment really opened her eyes to what is happening. He asked her for her version of what happened to our M and she confirmed what I had told him....troubles raising SS, a little disconnected on things we chose to do on weekends...nothing worthy of MLC PA.
So I can see where WS is approaching Acceptance, as she is cycling, but who knows how long this goes on. I am GAL and starting to enjoy the freedom from dealing with her for the month. I am finding myself to be stronger every day and I am not thinking about her nearly as much.
Well interesting feedback and proof of believe nothing you see and half of what you hear...
My cousin spoke with WS, as she begins reconnecting. WS talked differently than she did on Sunday with my good friend. She talked about how much less pressure she has on her now, how our marriage wasn't that good for a long time and that I am very controlling.....hmmm?? Well when you cycle, you go back to replay and you justify the reason you left M for EA. My cousin asked WS about how she could continue therapy while being with OM and be giving it a real effort and WS laughed.
So the masks are out and she must really be so happy....why else would she be reconnecting and asking people if they are mad at her and if they could accept her after this?? If you're really happy, why would you care what people think???? Maybe you're not that happy...maybe things aren't what you thought they would be....the cycle continues.
The best part is, I am moving forward and I am happier every day. I knew and know that this will continue as WS is trying to escape Liminal Depression which is on deck for her. She is grasping at the ledge, but she will inevitably fall to the bottom.
I have a therapy appointment tomorrow, which is great, so I will talk about all of this with my therapist. I am looking forward to a very nice weekend and I am confident that my life will go on with or without WS. I will make my choice and it may be to leave behind a person who has a history of depression, for someone more stable who will make me their first choice....and I couldn't even think about that just a month ago.
Still holding the rope, but a little less tight with my grip every day.
Well when you cycle, you go back to replay and you justify the reason you left M for EA.
you have no idea how much i needed to read those words tonight!
thank you!
Glad you're back,,,was worried about you. Xoxo
I think your WS is not really connecting in the true sense. What she's doing is trying to see what people think of her. It's the holidays and when the holidays roll around, there can be some connections and then after the holidays...poof! Gone back into the oven for more baking. Your wife is still very much in replay and they do come out to play once in a while and that is called a moment of clarity.
I don't think she's as happy as she is portraying herself. I think she misses the camaraderie that is out in full force during the holidays. That tug for fun, festivities and parties is still very much in her plans. She's going to be bouncing back and forth for quite some time and it will be interesting to see if she's still reconnecting 6 months after the holidays.
She is rewriting history about your relationship and she's justifying why she left...replay. She has a lot guilt going on and wanting to know if people are mad at her is a telltale sign. MLCers do not like to have people mad at them and it eats at them...they feel guilty for what they've done and the disconnections that they have created w/old friends. They like to look like the good person in peoples' eyes.
Loosen the grip on the rope and continue moving forward. The holidays are right around the corner and I hope you have some fun plans in place. Your wife is still in the MLC oven baking up. She's going to be in there for quite a while...time to take a break and just enjoy yourself.
thanks. been a real $h!t$how here... back on track now.
xoxoxo happy Friday!
I just want to reinforce what Job said as I've seen this time and again in my situation.
you've got a Bills/Steelers game to look forward to on Sunday ... what other GAL activities do you have scheduled for yourself this weekend?
xo
Bttrfly and Job,
Thank you for your insight and I agree with your analysis. I met with my therapist this AM and although she doesn't like to use the term MLC, she thinks that my WS is in what we would call replay. She said that WS is really struggling being alone, but that her and WS IC are both recommending she find time by herself and push through it.
So I am GAL...yes the Bills v Steelers will be a good time and I will be engaged in that. In total disclosure, I am going on a date the Saturday night with a really nice lady, as I have tickets for a concert and I wanted to take someone. She too is a LBS and D'd over 7 years ago. Friend of a friend. Told my therapist and she thought as long as I was honest with myself and set some boundaries, this would be good. Therapist asked me to measure what I feel when I am with this woman, as to understand where I am at with this sitch. Therapist says that what's happening to me is very common in her practice.....WS/WAS come in all excited for their future and LBS is devestated...time passes and the opposite happens and they switch, as WS/WAS begins seeing the changes in their lives and starts to question their future, while LBS is looking at the opportunity at a whole new life...with or without the WS/WAS.
So I am looking forward to some companionship to be honest. WS is on another trip with OM and I think seeing what its like to spend time with someone else, my help me get some perspective on what I am doing. I will be honest and tell you that its a boost to my self esteem and confidence that this woman wants to go with me and that's a feeling I haven't had in a while.
I want your feedback...as harsh as it may be...I want it. I really appreciate what you and Job and this board have done to help me move from despair to reinvention. I am taking all of this one day at a time....truly.
Goof to hear you've got your fire back!!! xoxoxo
Hi 2tours,
I'll let the vets opine about your dating. I believe the general principal is no one should not, it clouds things, doesn't help situation, etc.
I've been thinking about it as well, in part because my IC brings it up, asks me things like, what kind of partner do you envision in the future?
That's hard to hear, but I see no harm in having the conversation about what to do if H never comes back. I mean, he seems gone...
So in my thinking, another LBS to talk to sounds really nice, as opposed to someone ready for more. But I am not going to do anything as of now in terms of dating. I think its interesting to hear what your therapist has to say about these things, as always.
Well you asked, so here goes:
Your BD on 10/1.
You are in a trial separation for 30 days.
Today is Dec. 10 ... So 71 days after BD you're going on a date.
Why?
What are your motives?
Why does it coincide with a weekend when you know your wife is off with OP?
Companionship for the concert is nice, but how far is this going? Are you planning on kissing this woman? Doing more than that? Are you planning on seeing her again?
I'm pretty hardcore about two things: 1. being super clear that one thing is finished before you start something else - finished as in, your heart is free to start something else- and 2. check your motives.
Some people here will disagree and some people will agree. Ever hear the saying, "Opinions are like @$$holes, everyone's got one"? So be clear you are not taking a survey here and sit with this yourself to figure out what's going on for you.
I think it's fine to go to a concert with someone platonically. I think it's premature to date someone. Are you really ready to move on in that way or are you reacting to your wife's GAL weekend activities?
Also, a gentle suggestion: you may want to stop people in their tracks when they start volunteering her whereabouts. If NC is to truly work, I think it means putting the focus for 30 days squarely on yourself. That's hard to do when you keep getting reports on your wife's activities.
I thought this 0 Dark 30 thing was to give her (and you by extension) some breathing room to figure things out. It doesn't mean you are single and available for a 30 day trial run, or does it?
It absolutely stinks and hurts that your wife is off with someone else this weekend. Don't make the same mistakes. Make your own mistakes. Better still - learn from her mistakes so you don't drag a fourth party into the mix.
Again, just my thoughts. xoxoxo
Wish Jack3Beans was here to offer some insight.
Bttrfly and Altair,
I really appreciate your input and I anticipated that this may be your response. I am not going on this date as a response to my WS and her trip with OM. I bought these tickets a couple of months ago and I want to go to the show. Taking this person, who is also a LBS is something that I really debated and asked for advice on from very close and well meaning friends and my therapist....and they all felt I should within the right framework.
So my thought here is that I am going on this date to enjoy the companionship, the show and I have no plans to take it to another level. I know the timetable of this has not been that long (I love it that you did the math 71 days
), but I am not looking for another relationship or to confuse my standing. I do think that this will allow me to get a look into what else could be out in this world for me. I am struggling to hold the rope...the damage that has been done to my love for WS after dealing with her depression and struggles for 20 years, has left me in a place where I need to discover what I really want and what taking her back would really mean.
I think as we all go through this, we all need to be able to prepare for either outcome (reconciliation or D) and if we don't honestly look at this, it will make the decision we make to either accept them back or move on even more difficult. These 30 days are a way for me to get some time to think about what I want and what my choice will be.
I understand what you mean by getting updates on WS and her activities...you know how much we all struggle to hear of something about them. I can tell you that I do take this all one day at a time and I am not planning anything beyond this date. I have been in great control of my actions, emotions and reactions to all of this, thoughout the 71 days since BD and I don't plan on losing that ability in any way.
I love you both and I really appreciate the fact that you took time to share your thoughts amidst your own challenges.
Take care xoxoxo
Great. You are asking all of the right questions IMHO, and respecting the answers you are coming up with .... What more could one ask of oneself ? Enjoy your day and the concert xoxoxoxo
2tours,
as always you sound very thoughtful and aware. Have fun at the concert! I have been asked out thrice since BD, each time was certainly not what you are describing. The first guy was a lonely alcoholic, so no right there! I did love his date idea though: Drive to the beach and have brunch at a little cafe after a walk. The second was a younger possibly player type, possibly cougaring. I think he just wanted some s-e-x (hm, probably should have taken him up on that one). The third guy, again, single and came off as super-lonely, wanting a GF, something I am in no way capable of being. I certainly don't think any of these gentlemen were sad LBS's!
Altair, I hear the questions runnnig through your head, I have the same things I have been debating. My therapist supports this as well she thinks it will help me sort out some things and help me understand where I am at in this process. She wants me to track my emotions while on this date, so that she can help me navigate what I am feeling (thinking about WS, etc.).
So I am prepared to go tonight with little expectation other than to have a nice time, share some companionship and enjoy my progress in this. I will tell you that after the emotional beating I've taken over the last couple of months, it's nice to be validated by someone else.
I will let you know how it goes tomorrow...feeling stronger everyday and more sure of my future success in life. That's alot of progress since BD 10/1/16 and I embrace the confidence that I am feeling.
Hi 2tours. Sounds like you have a good plan. Being left in the dust is certainly a blow to the ego. It must be tough doing this and seeing if you think of WS, etc. You know that the A is statistically not going to work out, as it is built in escapism and fantasy-land thinking.
I think I was left for the potential to find a better girl-- unless she's in the picture now, who knows.
And yes, emotional beating is the apt phrase. I've taken multiple ones over the past eight months! Hopefully there's a corner to turn up ahead.
I certainly don't think any of these gentlemen were sad LBS's!
Sorry for the hi-jack.
Altair - I'm a sad LBS! Still waiting for your answer on if we'll meet up when you come up to Toronto, Canukistan in the summer
Just ask for AndrewP when you cross the border - we all know each other here ....
Well my date went very well. Really nice dinne with an excellent concert after and then a nice walk looking at Niagara Falls lit up beautifully. Very sweet person, who asked a lot of the right questions about me and my sitch....very respectful as she went through this as well. We enjoyed each others company a lot and it was really nice to experience this after the las few months.
I have to say that I didn't really think of WS unless my date asked me about my M and where things stood. I am not sure what that means, but I found myself very relaxed and just enjoying the moment.
I'm glad the evening went well and your companion asked the right questions. Sometimes it's nice to go out and have fun and just relax. Just be careful because you are emotionally vulnerable right now and you do not want to lead this woman on if you are attempting to stand for your marriage i.e., if you continue to see her. I realize that you are "friends", but friendship can turn into something else in a blink of an eye.
Job, I appreciate your thoughts and I get it. I have a lot going on this month, so time to see her is limited, but I will keep my guard up and be vigilant. It is nice to have time with someone who has gone through this as well, so the conversation was very enlightening as well.
Have a great day!!
Hi 2Tours,
I've generally found Job's advice to be spot on.
Gathering "Intel" from other LBS who are now on the other side of this is valuable, but one must always check one's motives and be ruthlessly honest with oneself as yes, friendship can turn to something else without realizing it. As my boy says, "You're aware" so just keep that awareness right up front.
I'm really pleased to read that you have a lot of GAL activities going on this month. What are some of them?
Happy Monday!
xoxoxo
bttrfly, One of the things I have lined up is watching the Bills miss the playoffs for the 17th straight year!!!
My son lives in Florida and comes up next Monday night, so spending time with him, our family and good friends is plentiful over the holidays. As is cooking, as I make all of the traditional Italian dishes for Christmas dinner (homemade Ravioli, braciole, sauce, etc.).
So trying not to gain weight, while eating so much and touring the new local breweries with my Son.
Now I know you have a lot to keep you busy too and I pray that you take care of yourself and make the most of your holiday as well. I have been through this before, so I am not a newbie....thus 2Tours became my name. There is life after D and you will look back on this as a liftoff point for the new you. Much love to you, even though your a Pats fan!
*this* is why we are simpatico!
I don't think I'm gonna have the stamina before Christmas to make the ravioli, but perhaps after ...
I also have to still decorate ... we have a naked Christmas tree!!!!!
Can't have that and I want my Nativity set up
Feeling more in the spirit today. Wish I had the day off to be home alone with my crazy pup and cat and could decorate while son is at school so he would be surprised when he gets home.
Maybe I will leave a little early?
That explains everything...these MLCers will never eat at home as good as we fed them! I hear the Christmas spirit in your words and I think once the music starts to play and you decorate, you will feel a lot better.
Buon Natale!
Buon Natale!
It's funny you say that. Our last Thanksgiving together my mom said that everything was delicious and stbxh looked at me and said in a weird tone, "Yes, she does cook well." at the time i thought ???? wth????
Even my cooking ego has taken a beating, tbh ... though that is slowly coming back. STBXH disparaged my broccoli and had the temerity to tell me to roast it in the oven then add cheese for the last few minutes. He said he LOVES broccoli that way and always hated broccoli the way I cook it (Italian - steamed, a bit of olive oil, pepper and garlic powder) ... and that our son also loves it the way he makes it. This from the man who thought boxed mac and cheese with cut up hot dogs was haute cuisine.
I checked in with son who said, "Mom --- I love your broccoli. Just don't tell Dad I said that." lololol
I had a recipe thread a while ago ... maybe it's time to resurrect that?
Don't ever doubt your cooking or anything else he had to say negative. He was lucky to have you and he deserves frozen dinners now!
Cooking is great therapy and doing so for others is very rewarding. Don't waste your skills, but share them with others to show them you love them. Maybe cook with your son, as I will when he comes home....pass along some recipes and enjoy the time together!
Well its been awhile since my last post...WS is not looking back and I am tired of standing. A little past the halfway point of our NC month of December and she has told friends of ours that she is happy with OM and new life. I am happier without WS, realizing in this month, through therapy, that I was not happy in M. After the weeks of WS living with OM, I am not interested in working through this with her, as too much of what has happened for me to get past and to rebuild trust.
I know some of you maybe disappointed, but I have GAL for the last 8 weeks or so and I am in a really good place. I have a lot to go out and enjoy and will be relieved when I can tell people the truth instead of making up reasons why WS isn't at a function or other place with me. I won't give them facts, but will tell them we are no longer together.
I appreciate all of the input from the group here...Altair. bttrfly, Job and others have been so kind to me here. I will stay tuned in, but may not post much.
I am in a much better place and looking forward to a happy holiday. I hope all of you find happiness and that you all realize that you are beautiful people who also deserve happiness!!
Take care and happy holidays!!
You are the only one that can decide when you've had enough.
The door is always open and you know that you are always welcome to post, i.e., about anything that comes to mind and it doesn't necessarily have to be about your wife.
I hope that you can enjoy the holiday season and may the new year be far better for you.
Hi 2tours,
As Job said, no one can tell another when it's time to stand and time to cut losses and move on.
I'm glad you're in a better place and hope that you do continue to post and keep us updated on what's happening with you! Buon Natale!
xoxoxo
Job, Thank you for your understanding and support! I am really in a good place, as this is my 2nd time through this and I know that I didn't cause this. I have learned so much about MLC from this site, the posts, the reading list and homework, that I can walk away knowing that I put forth a very good efffort.
I think that watching what's happening to WS and that I am in a very strong mental state, I realized that I just don't have the legs to stand for what could be a very longtime. I had every intention of doing so early on, but as my GAL was happening and my knowledge of MLC grew, I began to realize that I don't think I could get past what's been happening for the last couple of months. WS goes to counseling, but its not real and she isn't putting any effort into understanding or working on our M. I know that she has a long road to hoe and that its very possible somewhere down the road I may be faced with her coming out of this and wanting back. But I am not in a place where I would want her back now and I know that I must move on and let her figure out her life as I figure out mine.
I will comeback and post a little and I truly appreciate your support. Have a Happy Holiday season and take care.
Bttrfly, I appreciate your support and I really hope you keep moving forward as you have a lot to offer! I see the love you have for your son, the spirit you have in living life and I know you will be in a great place.
Thank you for all of your loving words and support...now get into your cooking again, feed people that amazing Italian food and enjoy the season of giving. I will be keeping an eye on you and I expect you're about to start sharing some amazing stories of a life that will be very rewarding for you.
Boun Natale!! Xoxoxo
Best to you, 2Tours. take care.
Thank you Altair, I wish you the best as well!
thank you 2Tours ... Buon Natale to you also! xoxoxo
Well its been a while since I've posted. I am filing for D next week, after months of counseling, standing, 180's, nothing worked. WS has yet to shed even a tear over the collapse over our M. I have gotten to the point where I see no hope and the D is something that I need to move on.
As things unfold, the only emotional response I get from WS is around the financial settlement of our D. Nothing else elicits a real reaction, as she is so self centered she wants everything her way.
Our therapist has told me to prepare for WS to at sometime have a real reaction to this whole thing. She said she's seen it everytime and that the level of compartmentaliizng that WS has done since her childhood to deal with her sexua abuse, just can't hold on much longer. Her thought is that with her depression, menapause and pressure from her job, all heavily contributed to her current state.
So in March WS is having a hysterectomy and that could impact this. She's moved into his house and she seems different to everyone that sees her.
I have dated a little and actually have a date this coming Thursday with someone that I am really excited about. The most important thing I have learned in all of this is that I am happy alone and feeling that moving on is very freeing.
I am prepared to move on with my life and I am taking care of getting myself ready for whatever happens. I know that some of you may think I should continue standing, but living in a small town and WS out and about with him, puts me in a place where I don't want to be.....so I move on.
Altair, I hope you find what you're looking for, I can see the sacrifices you have made and that you continue to make. Do what your hear tells you and only do what you want to do!
Bttrfly. Get well....I am sure you're watching your Pats right now, so enjoy and take care of yourself...you're otherwise doing great!
Hi Twotours. Sorry for the delayed response. How are you doing? I actually wasn't watching that game, believe it or not. Too exhausted. I have been watching since though
Can we get an update? sending hugs xoxoxo (and cannoli)