Phase 2 contd (2) - DivorceBusting.com

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701782&page=11

Old thread

I had presented a question in my old thread and I'm going to repost it here for any insight/ feedback.

So, stbxh's mind is a little wonky. I know there's no reasoning or rationalizing, but....
How do I deal with the fact that h is mad at me over the fact that I'm defending myself with this divorce? He thinks that this is a mutual decision and I should just do as he says. as mentioned, I'm not taking the offense here, but using my lawyer for defense only (hate to say it, but I'm protecting myself from him). Again... This is getting turned around on me. For those who have gone through this.... How did you deal? Blehhh.

I really struggled with that. I told myself what everyone else told me; its a business deal. My personal goal was to protect myself but not aggressively push the D. I really had to rein in my L a few times, though. We did go to mediation (I recommend it), but researched what was usual in my state for length of marriage, age, my circumstances. You should be fair; this is not a take them for every penny because they hurt you type of situation. Just make sure you are protected. Have a bottom line that is comfortable. Do the math. Be prepared. Have a way to prove that you need what you are asking for. Its business.

I had trouble sometimes with the emotions getting involved, but didn't show H (except when I got an email from my L early on that was asking about something from H's L that was crazy and shocked me while I was dropping something off for him). I found that some L's like to stir things up and push and prod without their clients fully being aware of what they are doing. Taking a piece of info and running with it. Fortunately, some of my H's L's "instigating moves" were based on info that was wrong that I know he wouldn't have gotten wrong (even in MLC) so I was able to figure out that she was doing it without his full knowledge. Be prepared. They like to "win". We were able to be cordial through our process. The mediator was good at handling the L's, too.

And as to handling the emotions? Get prepared well, make sure your L is on the same page, then leave it to the L. Don't worry about your H. If you are pleasant in person, and just trying to protect yourself, then let him react however he wants. You are not responsible for his reaction to you just protecting your self from something you never wanted. His decision, his problem.

Hi Feyth, just to pick up on your question - how did your XH perceive you during the D process? In truth - I have no idea, because the last time we talked (Summer '15?) he hadn't yet filed.

Our sitch became a very distant one, where all communications were via email and text. What I did to to try and maintain pleasantness, was deal with him in a positive way. So, there were times when he emailed me pretty outrageous financial suggestions. In response I (writing through gritted teeth) calmly said - thanks for your suggestion. I've thought about it and here's what I think. Or, I would just let him know 'we' (meaning L) would respond when we've had chance to consider that.

There were a couple of times I became frustrated by not hearing from them. For those I used the occasional technique of - just letting you know I will be doing X, and let me know by Y if you have any queries and concerns. That's a useful one, but I wouldn't use it lightly.

I have to say - given all circumstances - there was little acrimony during our D process. XH may well feel I walked away with significant assets, which is true - but I do feel the formula we worked to was fair - and actually was suggested by XH. Due to where we live, I have been able to buy a house outright and have savings. He would need a mortgage to buy a even a small property in the capital, unless he has bought with OW (is she has assets.) In truth, I have no idea where he lives now.

We D'd before the house sold, so we still had some dealings post D and I tried to be helpful during those too - thanking him for what he had arranged and asking him to let me know if he wanted my help etc. Of course behind the scenes I was distressed, upset and angry sometimes, but I didn't show that to him. My replies were always brief and pleasant. I became mistress of the two or three line responses.

It is always worth applying the 24/48 hour rule if you can. A couple of times I responded to my L on the fly and then emailed her to change my mind once I had thought some more.

So, I guess overall ours was a pleasant and cooperative D. We D'd 'collaboratively' - XH filed and I agreed not to contest that. Normally collaborative D (in the UK) involves a series of meetings, but given distance we didn't do that and agreed things remotely. I have to say, I think my cause was helped by XH having a 'Mayfair' L who told him a contested D process could cost him around �60k. This had him running scared of spiralling legal fees and keen to settle. My legal fees ended up being around �3.5k. I also think he felt guilty about everything.

I would echo Cil's wise advice. His reactions are his to own and I wouldn't worry about them. Just protect your own interests and conduct yourself with grace and fairness. Hope this helps anyway

xx

Thank you Ciluzen and Sotto. I appreciate you sharing your experience. You ladies are tough cookies for enduring your situations with grace.

I fully intend to be as pleasant as possible during the next few d steps.... But I'm not sure he'll ever understand that I've "lawyered up" to protect myself from him. I never wanted it to come to this, but I would be a complete fool if I didn't engage a professional to look after my interests. Stbxh is clearly looking after his interests and continues to manipulate and is using coercion for me to comply with him.

Admittedly, I'm having a hard time with this. I just feel hopeless again (like I did 8 months ago). Actually I'm waffling between anger towards stbxh and helplessness. Divorce stinks. Overall, it's just been a depressing day. I made no gal plans and I've been in my pjs all day with that all too familiar anxiety hanging in my chest.

I'm still very filtered when it comes to me sharing my situation with others. Nobody knows the whole picture, but some feedback I've gotten lately is that others thought that stbxh was verbally abusive to me... And yes.... The word narcissism has been thrown around a lot. Arent all mlcers narcissists? Even temporarily? I don't think it's fair or accurate for me to diagnose him, but I thought I would research this subject further as I dont know anything about it. I started reading a book on the subject and I'm blown away by the description the cycles. the similarities were spot on, much like they were when I started reading on MLC. Now, I'm not going to start labeling my h as narcissist, but learning about the subject (and how I personally might be drawn to a narcissist) has been eye opening. honestly, I think reading on this subject has aided a bit in this brief depression I'm feeling. It's very sad.

Anyway, I'm 1/3 done with the book... We'll see how the rest shapes up.

Ok, that's all for now. Sending everyone my best.

I think it's common for WAS's to want to do things amicably without L's involved. But a couple of suggestions XH made in the early stages were massively in his favour.

He was rather surprised when I had a L, but went out and got one himself. Actually, I found once he had a L, his suggestions became much more sensible.

Also, I don't think working with and through L's means adversarial. Our D was conducted with politeness and respect, including the L's...

Hopefully the day in your PJs has recharged you a little....sounds like some interesting reading anyway!

Xx

Hey Feyth, just checking in and sending you some PMA.

With my XH I wanted to go through mediation to sort out finances and childcare however he refused this and filed for D completely out of the blue suggesting that we should do this with lawyers through the courts. He tried very hard to take me to the 'cleaners' by saying I was much better off financially than I declared (ridiculous seeing as I worked two days a week in administration role and the other three was spent raising our D and he earned way more than I did!) In the end through his insistence at being right all the time, we went to court and the judge literally laughed at some of the stuff him and his lawyer came up with. Needless to say I walked away much better off than he would have liked. The judge actually said that they should stop waisting his time as this must be very stressful on me and he didn't want to make it any worse! So in the end my XH did me a favour in suggesting lawyers to his own detriment though! I am so glad I did in the end.

Stick to your guns Feyth. All you are doing is protecting yourself and he should be grown up enough to realise.

I think I need a PJ day! Happy Sunday!

Feyth-
You're correct in that behaviors of the WAS during their crisis do not necessarily warrant a diagnosis; if they weren't like this before their crisis and aren't like this after, any psychiatric diagnosis made based on their behavior during crisis is probably incorrect.

On the other hand, sometimes once you get a little space from your spouse and the rose colored glasses come off, you may see things that were always there or that you ignored. I didn't recognize my ex's own narcissism until after we split. A friend helped me recognize that it was always present.

KML- it's really good to hear from you. Thanks for stopping by. I sometimes think that when we start labeling or diagnosing, we end up using that as an excuse, thus skirting our accountability (not always, but sometimes).

in hindsight, our relationship was built on a lot of controls and contingencies. Here's the sad part..... I knew h was controlling but it didn't bother me. In the beginning I was a-ok with letting him take the reigns (I think our age difference had something to do with it) and with that... I always ended up doing as he wished on his terms. Even youngish teenagers had mentioned "Mr. Feyth does not treat Mrs. Feyth well.

Over time all those little digs and insults, threats and ultimatums just got to me. I became paralyzed out of fear of doing something wrong in his eyes. That paralysis came after the big ultimatum which I've shared here many times- "if we're not pregnant in 2 months, there's no point in being married." Ugh- that sentence has forever been branded onto my heart. At that point, I already didn't feel emotionally and psychologically safe around h, and that just push me over the edge.

Anyway, I will continue to review the dynamic and learn from the experience, but I will say, it has gotten me really depressed. Ugh- just want out of this funk!!!

Coly and Sotto,
My apologies- I think I missed your posts. Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure how to come across to h trying to explain that I don't want this to be adversarial... Since I'm not in agreement with what How he wants to divide things, it's automatically adversarial. Arg. Can't win!

Coly, I'm glad your judge was cool about your situation! some times you need that reinforcement!!! You're not the crazy one!

I'm still a bit down. H and I were definitely getting a little more relaxed with eachother for a few weeks over the summer. Started chatting a bit more during dog swap ( not much- we're talking 1 min vs 30 sec) but we were friendly and cordial. Now that he's filed, it's like bd again. He can't even make eye contact with me. Honestly, I'm not sure if I could be doing anything different, but I don't have the energy to be watching and tracking every statement, etc. Uch....so over that phase.

Anyway, i signed up for my next GAL and fitness goal. I'm doing a 30 day boot camp challenge starting Nov 1. The workouts and the diet will all be laid out for me so it's great that there won't be any guess work. I'll just have to workout morning and night. I think this will be a good distracter and hopefully I'll be so tired that I can start sleeping again. I haven't slept since I've been served. Until then, I will be getting my fill of cheese, chips, and cookies before I have to give them up!

Oh Feyth, I really feel for you. I know that gut wrenching, fearful feeling of the inevitable with D. I'm not sure how long it takes where you are but you might still have time to make a positive impact as you were before. It looked like what you were doing before was working so H's lack of eye contact is just his guilt. Maybe just keep doing what you were doing before.

Wow 30 day boot camp with all food and exercise laid out for you! I would love that! Is that 30 continuous days?

Feyth I think I missed the post about receiving the divorce papers. I'm really really sorry it got to this, I wish there was a law forbidding MLCers from making legal decisions, or any decisions for that matter.

I understand how difficult this must be, but well done for signing for the bootcamp chsllenfe, you will do amazingly well again xxx

Thank you Coly and Esame,
I'm so upset right now. H made the low settlement he "offered" me before and gave me and my lawyer 2 weeks to respond or else it's going to get ugly.

Another threat. As usual. How am I supposed to deal with this? Was our whole relationship a lie??! This is just crazy to me. The concept of reducing the marriage to a dollar sign is too much. I can't handle this. We haven't even done any discovery to know what we're working with.

Keep in mind he's made about 3 other "offers" and each one has changed and the last time he said, " this is the best you're going to get... You should be smart and take it. I'm not going to be as generous if this keeps going."

I just feel like our entire marriage was a sham and I feel so stupid. He valued me not one bit and I don't mean financially ( though it's reflected in the offer). I'm so upset. How can I stop allowing him to have this power over me? He'll never understand my feelings about this because all he can see is dollar signs.

2x4s please..... I need them. Seriously.

(((Feyth))), no 2x4's coming from me just hugs.

Divorce is just the worst thing in the world and as they say the only winners are the lawyers. I know everyone says to treat it as a business transaction but that's so hard when the person you are dealing with is someone you love and the only reason why you are doing this is because it is what they want. I remember sitting in my lawyers office in complete floods of tears every single appointment because of the things my H said about me. I am filled with dread that I may have to go through this again.

I don't think there is any easy answer. All you can do is be kind to yourself and keep reminding him that this is not what you want but in the circumstances you have to protect yourself.

Hi Feyth, I'm sorry to read this my lovely. Hey listen - this isn't a case of him being 'generous' with 'his' assets. these are assets built together over the course of your R and M. Please don't feel intimidated by these veiled 'it's gonna get ugly' threats. You only need deal with him through your L and calmly keep in mind what would be fair and acceptable to you.

Have you done some rough sums of what would seem reasonable? You know what we did, but I'm not sure about the law where you are? Also, cohabitation is taken into account in the UK.

Take care Feyth - this too shall pass xx

Another thing that helped me a lot Feyth, was I disabled emails off my phone. I have two email accounts and XH was using one of them. I just disabled that, which was easy. It helped because prior to that I knew something could ping through at any moment and was on edge because of it.

Once I disabled, I knew that I would only receive a message when I chose to check my emails that evening. Nothing would ping through at work, or at 7am and instantly alert me. It helped me a lot as I could head off to work and focus on my day without worrying - then check emails and respond on my terms - I regained a little control!!

Of course XH knew none of this, which was great. If you need emails on your phone, maybe you could do something with his email address - like send it to another folder - then you could check that at your leisure. Make technology work for you!!

Xx

Ugh so sorry feyth. I'll let others give you advice but know that you are doing nothing wrong. You need to fight for what is fair. Hang in there

Feyth I'm really sorry he is being so insensitive (replace the word insensitive for any swear word or epithet of your choice here) but please try to get what you think is fair. Don't let him bully you into agreeing into offers that you are not comfortable with. Again, I'm so sorry you are going through this xxx

Feyth,

When it comes to divorce, but more importantly money, they will offer tidbits and hope that you'll take whatever they offer you. They do not care if what they are offering is fair or what the offer should be, i.e., 50/50 of the marital assets and whatever support that your area states that you are entitled to.

As for his threats....let him threaten all he wants. It's going to get ugly no matter what happens because he's not getting what he wants. Protect yourself financially and do not back down on what YOU are entitled to. Many of them do this because it's a bully tactic and they know us well enough that they think that if they wear us down enough we will give in. Don't do it.

Take control of your situation and advise your lawyer that whatever you and your lawyer agreed in the upon in the first place is the final offer and you will not entertain any more offers that are less than what you are entitled to. Do not discuss anything more w/your h and advise him to work thru his lawyer and yours the next time he says anything to you.

Yes, they can get ugly, but if you put your foot down and don't let them see you sweat, the better it will be for you. I know it's difficult and you feel stupid...but you weren't and aren't. You are a good person and do not allow this bully to tear you down. Stay strong!

Hey Feyth. This is hard and dealing with L is...well, "yucky". And I have a few in my family (including a federal judge). Still yucky. Concentrate on what you need and what you want and understand that part of what you hear is your H and his fear of losing any assets or money, part is MLC weirdness, and a big part is L driven tactical stuff. My L kept asking me what I wanted and needed over and over through the process (it didn't change much), but when we sat down at final mediation she opened with a crazy extreme position that would have been impossible for H. I had to fight to keep my mouth closed. It was really just to see how they countered. Tactics.

We don't know what is going on in someone's head. Its even worse when that someone has paid for someone else to look after their best interests who doesn't care about you at all. Try to remember...you have to look out for you. Use your L to do that. Don't worry about what is going on in your H's head. Trust me; that is not a place you'd want to visit right now. Its more Halloween than Christmas in that noggin. So yeah. You don't know that guy while you are dealing with his L. It HAS to be business. And I can guarantee, his venture into the land of law is making him uncomfortable too. This is no fun from either side. But since he feels the need to do this, what can you do? Let your L take care of this business. It worked pretty well for me to detach from the legal stuff a bit and just really concentrate on looking good and being "at ease', making eye contact and trying to smile a bit (being "light and breezy" its been called by another poster) whenever we had to meet. It may not have been how I felt inside, but it was my way of showing control during the uncomfortable, uncontrollable sitch. And don't discuss the D with H without your L. If he brings it up, let him talk, but just validate and move on to something else. Leave that sh%$ for the Ls. Its business. Outside? You are the wonderful woman they'd be a fool to leave. Prove it.

Hugs to you. You are a rockstar and you know it! Look at all you've done and overcome when putting your mind to it. Don't let this be a mountain when its really just a little hill in your path.

You've got this!

Thank you thank you thank you.
I'm going to re-read and respond, but just know how grateful I am for all of you. I just wanted to note that h has not retained a lawyer (yet)... He just wanted me to sign over the house and let it be done with. So, all this bullying is coming directly from him. That is why I feel like such cr@p... He keeps saying that I'm going to have to pay him spousal support if we start to do discovery.

Again... Thank you.

Ahhh...well. Then he is an uninformed bully.

Try not to feel like cr@p. People bully when they are scared or insecure. Just refuse him. Take a defensive stance. And then go from there. You've still got this.

Well, I guess it's up to him if he chooses to retain a L. You have one, and so it's up to you whether you communicate directly with him or through your own L.

I had my L run some letters via me before she sent them to make sure the tone was what I wanted. Equally, XH and I did some liaison via email...but do remember, your comfort and future security are primary here.

Xx

Don't allow this man to bully you! The discovery process may reveal that he's got some assets that he's got hidden and doesn't want to disclose or he's too lazy to do the work for the responses.

Feyth - These are just scare tactics meant to frighten you into giving him what he wants. And he knows the triggers.

Each time he tries this method, just remember divorce is a breach of contract. There are laws in place for breaches of contract. He is not above the law and you deserve fairness. (This is probably why he is trying to circumvent the legal system as much as possible.)

That said, I think it's important in these moments for us to slow down and try to process what we are feeling and why. My h has also tried scare tactics on me. As we all work on creating a stronger version of ourselves, these are the sorts of things we have to conquer. Look at your past dynamic, examine why you are feeling what you feel and course correct. One thing I have learned is to strengthen my boundaries. It really is true: we teach people how we are to be treated. Can people go around trying to scare us into doing things?!?!

Remember, there are laws in place for breach of contract and you deserve representation.

Gosh, again thank you all for the advice and feedback. I am totally panicked. I think Job hit the nail on the head- I know he has sneaky accounting practices and I know he's afraid of risking exposure.

I am going to try to slow down and examine this. I just can't see how I can be the lighthouse when he's doing everything to burn me down.

This morning I ran as hard as I could to let this tension and stress out. I sobbed the whole way. Again, it's like I'm the bad guy in all this! He's so hurt and all I did was mooch off him and he's going to be paying for my "financial burden" on him for the next 28 years. Is this manipulation or is it true??? It's crazy- making.

Then, I saw that h and my lawyer had some email conversations... One where h thought that my lawyer was not being compliant. My lawyer corrected him and I felt BAD that h got the info wrong. How f@ck*d up is that?!! I felt bad for him briefly. This is a messed up dynamic.... Clearly I'm the one who's psychologically messed up when the jerk who's messing with me still gets my sympathy.

The last email was a sob story about how he just wants to close this chapter of his life so he can move on.

Oh poor him!

I don't know DBers. This really is awful.

Quote:

He's so hurt and all I did was mooch off him and he's going to be paying for my "financial burden" on him for the next 28 years.

28 years? Where on earth does he get this idea from?

You're young, no kids - the divorce should be extremely simple in most states. Split up the assets acquired during the marriage 50:50 (ok, maybe not in states that aren't community property states, but in most). If there is a big difference in your earning capacities, alimony by formula for half the number of years you were married. If he earned retirement benefits during that time, that also gets split by a formula (heads up - you don't get much). And usually THAT'S IT. So where does he get the idea that he'll be paying for 28 years????

I like the fact he says it's going to get nasty if you don't accept his offer but he has no lawyer himself! Considering your lawyer has already had to put him right on something he is very confident in his abilities!

Hi Feyth - firstly, please don't panic. Just post here and we'll keep supporting you. Also, don't worry about trying to be the lighthouse. Just focus on getting through this without being unkind to him, so that you can look back and feel happy with your part.

I agree that it's a good idea to slow down on any responses to him. Always respond with your business head, rather than your emotional head.

From what I read, he is flailing around because this isn't unfolding how he saw it would. He saw himself walking away quickly with X amount of assets. Now, he's starting to see that may not be the case.

Please don't let yourself be bullied or browbeaten and please don't feel sorry for him. He initiated this and the law is what it is. Brief your L to be pleasant and specific.

It's just a thought, but if you know how things should be split, you could suggest a formula to work with. In our case it was total assets now - minus what you each bought in (each take that) and split the 'growth' during period of cohabitation and M 50/50.

After many twists and turns, that is what XH suggested to me and I accepted that as fair. We kept it easy by leaving pensions alone as we both had provision there.

If he is in this state of mind, I would suggest you engage with him very little and work through your L as much as possible. Have you both made full asset declarations at this stage? That's the first step here in the UK on form E.

Keep running and posting and try and act on logic. Run things past us here. I know it's tough and I recognise how you feel as I felt the same about challenging XH. But truly, you will get there and you will be fine my lovely.

Xx

Hello everyone,
I haven't had the time to respond to your comments and questions and I apologize. Thank you for the guidance. It's so appreciated. I'm all over the place and a bit of a mess.

I'm going to see h today for dog swap and I'm sick over it. If he brings the d up, I'm not sure how to act. I feel so threatened again and I just want to crawl inside of myself.... Which is what the old Feyth would have done.

What should I do? Say? Is it ok for me to tell him that I'm not trying to be adversarial. What I am trying to do is protect myself from him. Can I tell him that he is no longer allowed to give me ultimatums and I do not need to respond to his attempts to control me and the sitch?

I seriously don't know how to approach it. Even if he doesn't bring it up, maybe I should say something? What do you think???

I also need to respond to my lawyer about h's offer. I've been avoiding it, but I know I should respond. I just want to be mindful of the timing, etc.

Feyth

So you have anxiety about meeting your h .... maybe you even have anxiety about having anxiety. See what happens? You spin, you are spinning before you even get there. Some Advice ... BREATHE. He gets to you ... you know it but more importantly he knows it, its how he manipulates you, take that power back ... use this meeting as a start.

You are going to swap the dog. Its a simple business transaction. Do not even consider bringing it up, swap the dog and get on about your day .. you know you are running late for that thing and you have to get to it. If he brings it up .. sorry can't chit chat now .. gotta run n do my thing, we can discuss it later ... buh-bye.

Yes, I agree with Cali, don't engage with him on that at all. If he raises it, you can say - hey, I'm due somewhere - we'll need to discuss this another time. You're not in a place where you can hold your ground in a convo with him. Respond to your L and let him/her advise your H.

Remember Feyth, you get to decide what is and isn't okay for you!

Xx

You've got good advice coming in, Feyth. You've got this. I know it seems like we should explain our actions when we feel that our S is possibly misinterpreting our actions and that scares us into believing that we're screwing up our chances of R. But here's the thing (which we already know).

That's all mindreading. Or attempting to. Don't do it. You'll make yourself crazy.

You know you have to swap your dog. Check.
You know you will see H. Check.
You know you will need to exchange greetings and pleasantries because you are polite. Check.
You know you need to look fantastic because ...Sandi's rules! Check.

All else is mind reading or pursuing. Remember, counterintuitive. If you say to yourself, "I think I should" or "I feel I should" then you probably shouldn't. If H tries to say anything go with the soft rule of "listen, validate, but if it becomes D talk, verbal attacks or dark emotion...you've got places to go, elsewhere to be". You do, actually. You need to go treat yourself...run, get some ice cream, see a movie, see a friend, curl up with a good book and a glass of wine (I like "adult special" hot chocolate or a small bit of scotch, myself).

Basically, here's that darn word again...detach. Just make it a thing you do, no emotion, just a task. Think shallowly, breath deeply, feel...like you really are excited for the treat you will be enjoying AFTER the task. And don't try to read his mind. When I start attempting to mind read, I now like to picture a scene from the awful movie "Scanners" (google it) where people had their heads blow up. It stops me quite quickly.

And use your L. Respond, and use to their full extent.Think, don't feel during the legal stuff.

Ahhhh Cali, Sotto, and Ciluzen... Thank you so much. Your support means the world.

I thought I was getting there with detachment as life was pretty good and I no longer worried about him.... But d@mn this legal process.... It's pulled me right back in. Without my rose colored glasses on, I can see clearly how he is used to manipulating me. Money is his Achilles heel and that's what this d is about right now.

I need to cut these stings asap.... He's not my puppeteer any more. (How sad that I was his puppet for so long)

On my way to get the dog, I blasted happy music and sang along and danced to the radio. I was feeling ok. Then when I pulled up, I noticed that his lawyer friend was visiting. Blehh...So we swapped the dog. Only 3 words were spoken, no eye contact. I looked good because I was on my way out to pick up my girl friend for dinner and drop my doggy off for a play date.

Me and my friend had a great night. came home, had an awful night of sleep... And didn't get out of bed till 11. I'm just finishing my coffee and breakfast and its 12:30! Once I get moving today, I will be cleaning up my apartment, doing laundry, etc. I've been out galing so much that I haven't been home all week! Smells like trash.. I have no groceries, etc. Uch- need to get my act together! I'm like a sloppy teenager.

I've been reading an old external blog... The persons name was mentioned here in the MLC section in past threads, but I don't know if she posted here (?) or if people just referenced her(?). Anyway, she has some insightful posts about the controlling and manipulating MLCer and its been helpful reading it. It's reminding me that this is "normal." I guess I've been fortunate to not have an MlCer who frequently spewed such hatred, so I'm not used to this new development and am having a hard time with it. I've been absorbing all the blows and taking his word as truth and it's been eating at me.

Detach detach detach detach. Protect myself.... And detach some more.

Wishing you all a beautiful day!

Happy Halloween! Boy the zombies are out today!

Just popping in to say how thankful I am for this site and for all of you. Honestly, I think I would be dead if I tried to deal with stbxh "alone" and without the knowledge that this site provides.

I can't even believe how nasty he's gotten. I prayed for months and months just hoping he would realize that I wasn't fighting him. I prayed that he would wake up and realize that he was swinging at air. Now that we're in the legal phase, I must protect myself..... I'm still not fighting.... Just defending.... But he thinks I'm trying to take him down and has even portrayed me as evil. He said I was smiling evilishly as I told him I'm not signing over the house. Not true!!!!

How did I become the scum of the earth overnight? This really is too much. I'm a good person and I have to stop giving a f*ck about what him or my inlaws or ex-friends think. I keep trying to trust the universe and a higher power that all will be ok, but I'm having a hard time relinquishing that control.

Thanks for allowing me to "spin" a bit. I just....... Ugh.... There are no words.

ugh I'm sorry Feyth. Keep being you. [censored] that the D proceedings have kind of taken you back in time. You can get through this!

Thank you, Pinn! Appreciate you reaching out.

I had a good Halloween and even passed out fortune cookies to the kids... Each time I would say, "I wish you good fortune" and they didn't quite appreciate it. I, however, enjoy spreading some light hearted positivity.

This morning I woke up feeling back to normal (the good normal). I appreciate the fact that these wobbles still come and go, but each time it gets shorter and less devastating. I have to trust in this, And not get too bent out of shape each time h hits me with a bag of poo! I had a great 5 hours and was just hit with more lawyer junk which sets me back again. I feel a little bit of depression slipping in and am trying to remain positive and full of love.

This divorce just seems to be moving at light speed. I'm not going to jump in the way to slow it down, but I'm amazed how quickly we continue to move forward. It's sad.

I started my 30 day boot camp challenge today. I've kind of cheated on the meals already, but i can not deny my love for cheese! I need to practice lovingly detaching from cheese. We have an unhealthy codependent relationship!!!

I work out with my boot camp team tonight. Should be interesting. I'm so grateful for the distraction!

Much love to you all.

awesome... can't wait to hear about the boot camp. Stay away from those cheese filled tunnels ;-)

Just got to let that cheese go Feyth!!!

Yes, Feyth. Cheese is probably not a great thing for your boot camp...probably not much on the meal plan. But those tunnels? A great workout if you scramble on all fours!

Hang in there, you have so much going for you. Just keep moving and take breathers when you need 'em. As a fellow co-dependent S, its a hard habit to break. I just keep saying...it gets better. And you know what? Each time I come out of the depression states (which keep getting shorter), it does! I'm starting to change my feelings of why me, poor me, and I must somehow have deserved this rejection and betrayal, to "Wow. Too bad H doesn't get to see the "me" I'm becoming. The woman only a fool would leave."

Lucky us with our introspection and awesome DB board friends who wield loving 2x4s. We get to grow and get better. Our S? Well...who knows. That's, I guess, their own journey.

I hope you enjoyed boot camp Feyth!

I also have an unhealthy relationship with cheese, I simply love the stuff! We need to start a sub-forum for cheese addicts

Thanks y'all!

Ah yes, ciluzen... Our lovely gift of introspection. I know it's a wonderful thing that will make us better adjusted humans...but.... Well.... Ya know.... It came with a cost. A high cost of something we never wanted to buy! But like you said.... Making lemonade out of lemons! And I have no doubt that we will all be better off as a result.

So now.... An Update for the cheese diary

Cravings came on about 11:15... I was dying for a string cheese! (My usual snack) but I held strong and had a banana instead. Ho hum. I adhered to the diet today... Just couldn't choke down the required gallon of water.

Had bootcamp day 2 today. Yesterday was arms and back... Today was legs. I'm dead. Just got out of an Epsom salt bath and I have a feeling I won't be walking tomorrow! I love this gym.... Everyone is so supportive. This guy stopped right in the middle of his set to introduce himself... Who does that?!?! We have a team and we try to all attend at the same time. We have an accountability support page on facebook. I love it! I really love the fact that i can spend a full hour focusing on me and making new friends and not once does h pop into mind. It's inpossible because I'm working too hard. I LOVE that!

I love that feeing of focus. I get it when playing hockey, sometimes when working out. No matter is going on it leaves my head. Glad you are enjoying the boot camp. Sounds awesome!

Boot camp sounds fantastic and slightly scary all at the same time!

We'll done for not giving in to the cheese cravings although I am very disappointed that a coneseur of fine cheese such as yourself Feyth had a craving for string cheese... Whaaat!

Day 3...... I ate the cheese.

Not string cheese though, Coly

but truth be told, my standards aren't that high!

I was at a happy hour mixer for one of the community leadership groups I'm part of. They had some tray passed hors de oeuvres and vegetable crudit�s and yep.... Cheese! i was starving and it was fantastic and I don't regret it at all!!! I did not, however, have any wine. Saving that for a "cheat treat" as I'm going out to dinner tomorrow.

It was kind of interesting being the only one at the mixer not drinking. Somehow the conversation came onto me and my love life (totally inappropriate for a professional function... But I think people want me to be "happy" on a personal level). I'm working on building more personal connections with others so I allowed the conversation to continue. It was quite humerous to be told by local policy leaders that I should join bumble so I can at least take dating into my own hands. Oh boy... I wasn't offended, and found it funny and awkward and uncomfortable all at the same time.

Since I had my mixer, I didn't make it to boot camp. So I had to do my own workout with cardio and post it on our facebook page as proof. Ouuuucchhhh....so much pain!!!!!! I literally don't have the strength to go from a sitting to standing position so I kind of have to roll onto hands and then get up. I'm having fun with it... I've never been one of those super fit/ athletic girls and it's weird to see a reflection of me in the mirror squatting and lifting weights. Who is she???!

killing it Feyth!

Well done Feyth! You are doing amazingly well. And don't worry about the cheese, you'll soon get that "addiction" under control xxx

Thanks Pinn and esame!

Bootcamp is going well... Never been so sore in my entire life (not an exaggeration!)... Must mean it's working. Some people in my group have already lost between 5-7 lbs! I haven't lost any, but I didn't really have much to lose... Hoping to just firm up.

So... I already know the answer, but I'm going to throw the question out there anyway because I'm a slow learner

.... Is there anything I can/should say to diffuse h a bit? Yup... He's still on the lets be nasty to Feyth freight train.

His sister was in town this weekend and I wasn't sure if I would see her during dog swap (nope).... Gotta let that expectation go! Was also hoping (expectation) that her being with him would put him in a better mood (mind reading). Nope!

Ahh well... Just got to keep on keepin on. Have a good one!

Originally Posted By: Feyth

So... I already know the answer, but I'm going to throw the question out there anyway because I'm a slow learner

.... Is there anything I can/should say to diffuse h a bit? Yup... He's still on the lets be nasty to Feyth freight train.

Yes .... you need to start your boundaries. During conversation the second my MLCr started to insult/spew/monster I would give her one verbal warning "I am not going to continue being treated like this, if it continues I will end this conversation" ..... she would continue to blast and I would walk away/hang up whatever.
This continues but eventually she would quickly stop ... and it would take a bit to crank up again but once it did I would end it.
I held FIRM to this approach, she was conditioned that if she monster'd in my direction the conversation was over and I can not tell you the last time I had to end a conversation in this manner.

He will test, may blow your phone up, follow you, what ever .. .just continue to walk away and refuse to say another word. Its hard at first but honestly this was one of the best things I ever held to during the crisis.

I miss my old flip phone - when ex started to spew at me on the phone I would slam it shut. If he called back I would say "Sorry, I must have driven through a cell phone hole." Eventually he figured out that every time he spewed I would mysteriously drive thr5ough a hole.

Eventually I trained him to communicate by email only - much less stressful for me. If he called I would let it go to voicemail and text him back. If he texted I'd say "I just sent you an email about that".

Hey Feyth, glad bootcamp is going well. My muscles are hurting in sympathy for yours!

I like Cali's advice about shutting H down if he starts to get heavy. It's not fair that you are not only being put through a D but you are also having to deal with him being nasty to you. Protect yourself and set your boundaries you don't deserve any of this.

I also gave an issue with H's family. Not one of them have contacted me to find out how I am. It makes me sad but I know that's where H gets avoidance of talking about emitional issues....

Great postings above Feyth. You get to choose what kind of behaviour you will tolerate and what to do if it becomes unreasonable. Don't be cowed by it and follow the advice above I would say. Xx

Thank you all for your feedback and responses. I'm getting better with this new anger he has towards me and I appreciate you all sharing your experiences- helps me not feel alone. I think I finally trust in myself that I haven't done anything wrong. He can be as pissy as he wants to be, but I'm simply responding to his divorce. Period. It's the facts. I've done absolutely nothing to make this worse or scr*w him over.

Anyway, today is day 11 of the bootcamp challenge. I've only completed 10 workouts and I haven't been so great on the diet. I have 19 days to go and still have 25 workouts to get in. Eeek! I've mentioned it before, but I'm so grateful for this distraction right now. Last night's class included a club smash exercise. It involves using a weighted club to smash a punching bag as hard you can. I'm not an aggressive person, but dang it felt good! I may or may not have been thinking about h while slamming that club down.

That's it for now. Another week down. I have a big work function tomorrow... A nice formal event. Looking forward to getting dolled up.

Have a lovely weekend DBers.

Hello hello.

Had my formal event tonight. It was so much fun! I got glammed up and felt like a million bucks. Slowly but surely I'm getting my swagger back

To be honest, It did feel nice to have some people who know about my sitch tell me that I looked really nice and my stbxh was an arse for ever letting me go. It's not about physical appearances.... I know that.... But since this is a safe space here, I'll say he had it good. He's a balding middle aged man, and I'm an early 30's ex-pro dancer and former beauty queen. Ok, that was really mean and very snobby and arrogant of me. Can we just blame it on the wine???

Maybe I need that validation and reassurance that I could be physically attractive to others. I haven't felt that in a long time. I miss being arm candy. I'm a strong independent woman (in the making) but I want to be with someone who is damn proud to be with me and vice versa. I digress.

Anyway, I wasn't there to pick anyone up, but I had the best time and let it all out on the dance floor. Ahhhhhh nothing better than dancing the night away with good peeps and not a care in the world.

.... And the beat goes on....

I am so very glad that you had a great time last night. What you posted certainly wasn't at all mean, snobby or arrogant. You are stating the truth of the matter and sure you miss the companionship. You are definitely getting your swagger back!

I think you've got a good attitude and are doing great in spite of the situation that you've been placed in by your stbxh.

So happy for you, Feyth, that you had a great night! Sometimes its nice to remember who you were and are to help break out of what your "partnership' had caused you to become. Glamming up for the night and seeing yourself looking and feeling fabulous is like a shot of self esteem. You are not what he makes you feel like...you are who YOU make you feel like. You are the person only a fool would leave.

Someone is going to be very lucky one day feyth.. believe that

PS: some middle age bald men are hot ;-)

Thank you all for that "validation" I needed. I don't want to come off as a jerk and I'm just now truly believing and trusting that I did not cause this, that I am a good person, and I have to have faith that I am on this journey for a reason.

I loved being married and I look forward to having a family with a good man someday. I think by doing all the instrospective work that I've done, it hasn't hardened me against marriage in the future. I know with 100% conviction that I want to be married again and this time i have a million more tools in my tool box. I trust that I will find someone that actually values me and what I bring to the table. I trust that I will find someone who I also respect and value. Im starting to think this really is stbxh's loss. I'm ready to say good riddance.

So, stbxh has gone from angry/ nasty to completely silent. I still see him twice a week for dog swap... And the last two swaps have been completely silent. No eye contact and no words from him. Today he even hid behind the door. i still try to be my cheery and breezy self regardless of his reaction.

What is going on in that head of his? Bleh.

... Oh and Pinn... I actually do agree that middle age balding men are hot. Haha! I have a thing for older guys. Not sure if it's daddy issues... Maybe it will come out when I have my own MLC. kidding!

I kind of said that out of spite for h... He hated hated hated the fact that he was balding and it didn't bother me one iota.

Deep breaths. I really need to vent for a moment because I'm just beside myself right now.

Stbx is such a piece of SH*T! Pardon the language. I'm floored.

He's lying on his legal paperwork. Saying that I orally took my name off the house in 2013. Wtf??? This, in addition to how i orally agreed to give him the assets at the house (furniture, etc). I'm hoping this isn't a real thing and will be dismissed.... He's still representing himself, but his lawyer friend is doing all the work. Is this real?!?! Wtf?

He's such a lying piece of garbage. I honestly can't take it anymore. And I'm still the bad guy in all this. How is this even real? I'm sorry for the venting.... There's no words. My god.

vent away Feyth... vent away! I am sure your lawyer will know how to deal with this. Stay bubbly!

Lolol - you orally took your name off the house? Pretty sure no judge would buy that, especially since - what was there in it for you?

Just let your attorney do his job. Let your ex be the douchey McDouchbag he currently is. Get on with your soon-to-be-fabulous life.

Thank you both so much. I spoke with my girlfriend who helped me laugh it off a bit. She said as an outsider it looks like he's throwing a hissy fit and it's pathetic and desperate. That his actions are so over the top that she thinks it's to cover his arse.

I'm pretty sensitive and I would never do this to someone else.... So it's hitting me pretty hard.

I appreciate this place so much. It's a godsend.

Feyth

Hang in there..try to not take it personal the MLCer is very self centered

I does sound ridiculous and Im sure your L can advise you
I wouldn't worry
A good L goes a long way-to protect us from getting the raw end of the deal

unfortunately our H do not care about anything but themselves right now

and in D we need to do the exact same thing and make sure any agreement made are checked out by our L..

Hi Feyth, I'm glad others have advised already. I think it is a time to calmly confirm that you didn't verbally remove your name from the house or give up all its contents. These are marital assets and in the absence of anything different, the written documents are what they are.

I can understand your anger, but just process that away from your H and keep on living your life. He wants what he wants - that's up to him - but he may well find he doesn't get that.....such is life.

You're doing great Feyth & hope you have a good weekend xx

Why would anyone believe that you orally handed him everything he wanted on a plate? It's like me saying I orally won the lottery can I collect my winnings please?

Stay strong, you can do thins xxx

Hey Feyth! Pretty sure the guy filling up his cute convertable at the gas station orally stated I could have it, so I'm pretty sure its mine now...Garbage! I echo everyone else; let your L know what's up and they can laugh at your H for a good long while, too. It is so frustrating to deal with this stuff...I hear you. But use your L to create a shield by just letting them know the facts and what you need. That's what they're paid to do.

You've got this. Let your H have his posturing and tantrums. Just think of one of those puffed up roosters, fanning their wings and hopping back and forth squawking to scare a larger, calmer animal away. Be the calmer creature. Let your H act like the chicken.

Thank you all. I'm just speechless.

I have to see him today for dog swap. I was thinking of hiring someone to do this for me since I have zero desire to see him. However, that would be giving him the satisfaction of knowing he got to me (mind reading). So, I'm going to buck up, plaster on my smile and get my dog. I'll continue to be kind.

However, truth be told, a 180 for me would be to be a raving b*tch. He definitely wouldn't expect it! Haha.

Rent a tall handsome black man to accompany you to the dog swap

Omg! What a great suggestion, KML! Haha. Better yet, I could hire one of the body builders at my gym! Many of them are fitness models! They do bicep curls with 100lb Dumbbells! These guys are beasts! Haha!

Originally Posted By: kml

Rent a tall handsome black man to accompany you to the dog swap

That made me literally LOL.. and I never LOL!

Hope everyone had a great weekend! I can not believe its thanksgiving this week! Ill be approaching my second holiday season without a spouse and im starting to get those holiday "triggers." This is on top of the audacious divorce triggers. Thank god for bootcamp and this board. It's the perfect distraction.

Just journaling 3 things on my mind-

1) I recently got reacquainted with an old friend. Many years ago we had a really stupid falling out. We were roommates and she would rather go out and party than pay rent which put me in a huge bind. We fought, she moved out, and I had to get the back-rent from her mom. We haven't spoken since. She was 21 and I was 19.

Prior to this, we were great friends and had a lot of the same values (minus the excessive partying). Well, here we are 14 years later and it's all water under the bridge now. The point of this is, time really does heal all wounds. I hadn't thought of her in years and years and now it's like no time has passed at all. We're reconnecting and it's fun. We had so manybgood memories and I barely remember the few bad ones... And the bad ones aren't even relevant in my life today.

Do you think the same thing happens with our ex- spouses? In time, if we don't intentionally create bad memories, do you think they'll think of us lbs's fondly? I wonder if my ex will wake up 10 years down the line and say, wow, I threw away my wife and marriage over something so stupid! (ignore the mind reading.... It's kind of a rhetorical question)

2) stbx's young boy- toy friend had posted something on facebook and a former mutual friend had commented on it and I was able to see it. I guess I was being nosy, but normally I would completely ignore this (in fact, I'm very close to eliminating this mutual friend because she's not a friend at all). It was a cheesy little essay about girls that stbx's friend wrote. It was not good. I had to cringe thinking how h has the patience for this kid. H is an elitist (so am I with all this judgment!) and even our former therapist said, "oh, no matter what, Mr. Feyth will always be the smartest person in the room." I wonder if it's an ego thing or if h really has common ground with this kid due to his current mental age. Again, kind of a rhetorical question. Doesn't concern me... Just boggles the mind.

3) I have a friend who has been contemplating becoming a waw over the last year. Her h had been unfaithful to her and she now was ready to walk. Her h quickly shaped up, was remorseful, etc. Over the last 4 months, She did the work to look deep within, she got her own life, found her voice and now her and her h have a relationship that is better than ever. They continue to work together, respect eachother, and respect their commitment. They both decided that marriage is really f'ing hard, but their spouses were worth it.

I think it's a beautiful story. As we all know, walking away without trying is the easy way out. I am so happy for them and where they've gone on their journey, but I'm also jealous. Why wasn't I worth it? I thought h was worth it so I went to therapy, got a DB coach, read everything I could get my eyeballs on. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a giant %*�~face, and I want to be as far from him as possible right now.... But why wasn't I worth it? Why wasn't I even a little worth it? He's never once demonstrated the slightest hesitation in his decision to exit the marriage. I know with certainty I was not a horrible wife... That was never his complaint. His chief complaints really revolve around him not getting his way like a pissy 2 year old. Blehh.

Enough about him.... Just my thoughts/ feelings. Wishing everyone a lovely week.

Have a good one!

Hi Feyth, I'm glad to hear about your reconnecting with your friend. Sometimes I think these sitches have so many silver linings - if you weren't in your current place in life and she in hers, it might not have happened etc..

I think so many of us share the - did he really think so little of me and of our long(ish) R and our M? When I look at the sitches of others, their MLCers seem to engage with them much more. But mine? Zilch. I'm partly glad and it partly stings a little still. But if I'm applying MLC learning here, I would say that he doesn't have 'it' to give just now and is seeking the thing or person that will 'make' him happy....ie: it's much less about your value as a spouse and much more about what's going on with him...

Xx

Thank you, Sotto. I think you are right with your assessment.

Well, another week beginning.... Another obnoxious interaction with stbxh and gut wrenching call with the lawyer. Each lie is so heinous and hurtful and it freaks me out. Yes, according to h our entire relationship was a sham and I was just a money leech. at least the lawyer said, the burden of proof is on him. He has to prove that I willingly gave up my ownership of the house years ago. Wtf?!! Why on earth would a happily married couple do tha and why would a wife just willingly say, hey I have an idea lets take my name off The house like I don't evenn live here It kills me every second of every day dealing with this. But I knew it was coming..... I know him too well. It's not about winning, it's about doing anything and everything possible not to lose.

I hate this and wish I could fast forward the next few months.

Sorry for all the typos....I'm just a mess. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I'm so pleased to hear about your friend and her H. What it tells me and should tell you is that if H is meant to in your life he is meant to be. Like you I wondered why wasn't I worth it? I have come to the conclusion that we are worthy, unfortunately we have met someone who hasn't got the same values as us and therefore weren't worthy of us in the first instance. Maybe our H were part of our life to show us that we are strong women and that we should believed in ourselves more.

Turn the table round, if you were still with H, would you have accomplished or even contemplating to do everything you have accomplished so far. Maybe it hurts because we blame ourselves for not following our gut feelings ( well it's my case) regarding H. Who knows?

What I can tell you for sure is that I have done thing I'd have never thought I was able to do if I was still with H. From reading your post it's the same. Embrace the new you and if it hurts maybe it's because we can't have what we want (even if we know it's not healthy for us).

Take care xx

Hey rouky,

You're right.... It's kind of the ego talking I guess. The ego always wants it can't have. I don't want him. However for myself (my ego) I have to know that I gave it all I had. Clearly I'm still here so I'm not tapped out yet. But at the same time, how could anyone go back to their spouse after this behavior and total disrespect. Disrespect that has occured throughout the whole relationship.

Then there's the MLC caveat. They don't get a pass for their bad behavior, but we're still encouraged to respect their journey.

Even though the whole "you didn't break em" phrase runs through my mind, my ego still blames me for not being the perfect wife which is egotistical to even think that's possible.

When it comes to the craziness and arrogance and entitlement which seems to be on par with MLC..... Part of me still doesn't want to believe it. Kind of like I have to continue to touch the fire to see if it's really hot. That's why I haven't completely turned my back on him yet.

Also, I feel like this is the toughest part. I'm not good at standing up for myself and that's kind of how I got here. I always backed down to h because he was so controlling. And he still is!

Now is the time that I have to stand up for myself without fear of h, his words, and what my former friends and family think of me. Who the f cares anyway..... None of them have reached out once during this ordeal.

This really is the hardest thing. He is such a snake.

How's that for an angry woman's stream of consciousness.

That was an excellent angry woman's stream of consciousness. Get it all out!

As for all the rest, I still wander around having those imaginary convos, lectures, fights, confrontations with H and "friends". I think that's ok. It makes it easier to just look confident and unflappable, smiling and validating his feelings no matter what the tangled ball o' craziness before me comes up with. Vent away. You are going to see the side during D that you would never have expected, even from MLC.

It doesn't mean you hate him or have given up on him, or it doesn't have to. But that's not totally him right now.Its some awful MLC creature. I envision that scene in the Exorcist where the little girl writes "help me" on her stomach from inside her own body that was taken over by the demon. Yes, I'm a total wierdo. But really, I feel that he's probably still in there...somewhere. Look how much you've changed, are changing, since this happened; but you're still the same person inside.

So, repeat ad nauseum, "focus is all on me, what I need, what I want." You know the drill by now. Let him be crazy and say or do what he wants. Just make sure your L is on your same page. Go live your life. Live it beautifully, daringly, givingly ...is that even a word? Authentically for you. Leave him to bubble in his broth of crazy, depression and anger. He's probably a bit of tough meat right now anyway.

Hi Ciluzen, thank you for that feedback.

Its that last little bit of fear that I wish I could just burn from my brain. At the very core of it lies the statement- "If I stick up for myself and protect my interests, then he won't come back. "

I have had this type of convo with my therapist about a year ago. She said the above statement typically resonates with childhood memories and FOO issues. ie: if I'm good, then he/she will like me..... Etc.

I've tried really hard to figure out where that dynamic comes from... And from what I hear, it's a pretty typical mindset. I know it's engrained in me, and I just can't figure out where it stems from and how to officially over through it.

So... I think if I'm honest.... That's the last piece that I am just holding on to for dear life. I'm moving forward protecting myself with my L but the emotions aren't aligning with the actions. I'm scared. At the same time, I'm 99.9% sure I don't want to go back to that life. lets be real.... The only good thing about that life was we didn't struggle financially. I never felt supported of truly loved by him. Our mc told me I would never be enough for him.

Also, I'm scared of what stbxh will do to me. Again, it's because I know he's a liar and manipulator.

So, as I'm typing this... Stbx texts me that he's taking the dog this weekend during my time. Ummmmmmm.... A request or ask would be nice don't you think?

Hi Feyth, what you write resonates with me. If found this difficult too and I think it does link to the wider theme of - if I am a good girl, people will like me...

I found Brene Brown's work really helped me. There is some useful video content of her online. I can recall watching one of her talks on boundaries, and it popped into my head when I was reading your post above.

I think the 'nice girl' issues are pretty common and don't think there needs to have been anything specific or significant in your background to have led to these. However, this awareness is useful and will help you move forward. I still have these tendencies, but I find I am more aware of these dynamics now, and there's an important shift from:

Event - response....to event - mindful awareness - response.

I aim for greater authenticity in my interactions now. I don't always achieve that, but I achieve it more and I think it deepens bonds with people.

I'm sorry about the doggy time text. Options? Do nothing? Let him know. Yes, I'm happy to swap and I'll take doggy on X date (dose of own medicine) or maybe - 'sorry, I already have plans with doggy that day.'

It's up to you. But try and act from your highest self and in an authentic way and I don't feel you can go too far wrong.

Xx

The emotional terrorist strikes again.

I called him out on not asking me if I would agree to switch days/coverage for the dog. And today, he emails my lawyer stating that the dog is his property and the dog is his.... He's only sharing out of consideration. Going forward he is going to keep the dog but is going to allow me visitation.

This on top of a whole other mess of insults telling my lawyer "your clients ignorance does not allow her any rights to my property or business".

Again, we declined his settlement right off the bat because we haven't done any discovery which is required.

I'm absolutely devastated.... The dog thing just kills me more than anything. What a POS monster.

Well, obviously that is really low. Sounds like he's grasping for control and probably anger gets him his way.

The thing is, as I have grown older and wiser? I am super comfortable with people being mad at me. If I have fault, I apologize. (And I let it go even if the other person does not. This is VERY freeing.) If I did not have fault? Oh well. Not my problem. And that? I drop like a lead balloon.

My advice? We need to become comfortable within ourselves when others are unnecessarily angry with us. It's not our problem. And this way, we don't "teach" someone that they can work us over through anger. Probably this is important for any future r we have.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving.

Great advice, HaWho. And, wow, Feyth. I'm so sorry! What a grasp for control that is. I am thankful that my XH didn't even try to take my pup (he IS the one who saw her at someone's house and convinced me to get her when he found out she was available) and had no interest in or ability to have her at his apartment. Sounds like he is really monstering. I wonder how out of control his life is for him to feel the need to vent it all on you in such nasty ways!

Sounds like your L is on it, though. Water off a duck's back, then. It is irrational behavior; and reeks of desperation. I wonder why?

Hi Feyth, my two wise friends have already given good advice. His anger is his problem, not yours. Continue calmly on and use your L as needed. My XH too wasn't keen on the whole (inconvenient) disclosure thing. He would throw out emails saying - I don't want a long drawn out process - you have X and I'll have Y (always massively in his favour.) However, I patiently insisted on disclosures...

The thing is in your sitch - you guys are M and there is no way up down or around that. The things he thinks are 'his' are marital assets...

Xx

ugh Feyth.. I'm sorry. What an immature little baby. My WW took our pup but he was hers before we got together so I was OK with that. But it still stings... I miss that lil guy! Hope you have a great thanksgiving.

I am so sorry that he is acting childish over everything including the dog. He is angry and he wants to control everything and like all of the posters have said...that's his anger to own. I know it hurts to know that he's pulling out all of the stops to act like a bratty child, but do not allow him to see you sweat. Your lawyer is on the ball here and he knows what to do and will not allow your h to walk all over you.

As a poster pointed out...you were married and anything that was purchased/earned during the marriage is considered marital assets. These MLCers don't get it and are very stubborn about what they think that they are entitled to. If he wants the dog, so be it...but he's not going to want to take care of the dog for very long because it involves responsibility. Here's my take on it, the more you try to point out that it's your time w/the dog, the more he's going to want to take that dog away from you. He's acting like the bully and/or kid who sees another child w/something he wants to play with and yet the kid playing w/the toy won't give it to him, so he has to become the bully to take it away from you. Once he gets the toy, he'll grow tired of it and then leave it where it falls. It's called being a bully and attempting to control the situation and hurt you in the process. Again, don't let him see you sweat.

Choose your battles and if it means him taking the dog...let him. You have bigger battles to fight right now.

I do hope that you can enjoy your Thanksgiving.

Hello. Hope everyone had a wonderful thanksgiving.

As usual, I'm deeply appreciative for all of your words. Thank you.

Hawho, going back to your feedback- Thank you. Your thoughts about letting go when others are mad at you is brilliant. I want to get to that place more than anything. I am so insanely fearful of what other people think in relation to those in me and H's circle. I have this mindset to a degree outside of that, but I'm paralyzed with fear when it comes to him. I'm so scared of doing or saying the wrong thing. I am consciously trying to work through this every day.... Trying all my detachment tricks and my own attempt at aversion therapy. I think I'm afraid of them being mad at me because at the end of the day I haven't done anything wrong. (That's the ego talking again) .... But truly, ive done nothing. Not one single action has been done to deliberately negatively affect h and yet I am the monster and people in my former life have sided with h. It's emotionally challenging living in the twilight zone. And it's a paradox that I need to work on fixing.... See my next statement.....

This kind of speaks to the larger issue. Stbx's control over me. I didn't see it then, but I do now. I was his puppet and I gave him every ounce of power because I learned early on in our relationship that I couldn't fight or disagree with or even have an opinion of my own that differed from his. It didn't matter, I was always wrong... Wrong... Wrong.... Wrong. Then I was made to feel stupid for not doing something right, time after time after time. And do not get me started on the money. He was a finance guy so I trusted him with all my pennies. He always told me I would never understand the inner workings of our finances so I just trusted him.... Blindly. Stupid girl. On this same token, I can say I haven't done anything to him and that's because I've always conceded. Even though I'm deliberately not being a raging b* (it's not in my nature) He's very used to me not rocking the boat. He's used to me not doing anything to hurt or harm him or the situation.

So back to the legal issue and the dog. I've been still this entire time. As mentioned, were still in the intake process so there's no reason for me to be taking the offense. I feel like h is running around wielding his sword while I'm just sitting here with my shield (my L). I haven't succumbed to any of his demands so he's getting angrier and angrier. I've always rolled over the second he demanded something. This is new for him.

With regards to the dog. He hit me at my weakest spot. I'm a huge animal lover and I love my dog. What he did was the lowest of the low. And per usual.... I havent actually done anything here to make it worse either.

Let me explain- he texted me to tell me he was going out of town for thanksgiving, he's taking the dog and will be back next week. I told him I thought I was having him longer because he told me he was flying out of town and we never discussed me giving up my time or negotiated otherwise. He told me things change and he's sorry I'm disappointed. I told him I'm not disapointed, but I feel disrespected because he has not asked me if I was willing to give up my time. I have not agreed to this. He said, my decision to take him was not made out of any disrespect to you. I said, therein lies the issue "your decision to take him." That was the end of the convo.

Next thing I know.... I get the email from lawyer that shows h spew about how the dog is his property and should have custody.... This amongst my ignorance... Etc

Funny how he never mentioned to my lawyer that he was a pissy little brat who was intentionally uncooperative and that is why this new legal issue has developed.

If I'm doing anything glaringly wrong, please let me know. Clearly, it seems like I haven't been doing any 180's as my nicey- nicey behavior has been consistent. Im willing to hear advice on how to do this differently. Please... Help me to do this differently.

Ugh he's such a giant EXPLETIVE!

Wow Feyth - such heavy duty processing on your end. Good on you!

So, if I may, here are some thoughts I have. It's so good you are recognizing your discomfort with people being upset with you. Whether this is a FOO issue for you or not, now is the time to course correct. And you are very fortunate that you're figuring this out so young! I think it can take women more time "to come into their own" for various familial and societal reasons. This is an issue hear and dear to my own heart as I have grown so much through this hot mess.

I see it all the time. A man is aggressive at work and he's a "go-getter." A woman is aggressive in the workplace? What a b**ch! We've all seen it. Even many women sit quiet with the double standard, afraid of speaking up. One of my biggest personal regrets is not calling out that double standard for fear of being branded bi**hy, too. Now I do call it out.

What I have learned? Actually, some of the nicest people on this planet have the firmest boundaries in place. Telling people where the lines are in our life is a GOOD thing. It allows us to have healthy relationships. People are not confused.

Once we get in touch with our inner voice, define our boundaries and get downright righteous about them, we create a circle of healthy relationships. For me? The thinking has been: I am this person. If you can't honor that? Then you are not in my inner circle and I have lost nothing as it's not a healthy relationship anyway. There's nothing more lonely than not being able to be you around "friends."

It does start with this inner voice you are hearing! Listen to it and honor it. You will attract like minded people, which is what you want.

You're not going to like this next bit. While I am so sorry he's doing this blackmail with the dog; personally? I would consider going completely dark on him. Sit and think if interacting with him over the dog is healthy for you. If it isn't I would go NC. If you don't have the heart to do it, to protect yourself from his nastiness, I would deal only with your lawyer from this point forward. However, don't be surprised if he contacts you to take care of the dog when it's convenient for him. So determine your boundaries there, too.

I suspect by this time his poor lawyer (or that person who is "conferring" with him) has had to explain how the legal system really works when it come to division of marital assets. He has to be rip roarin' mad. And so he'll probably try to control whatever he can whenever he can. I suspect as he "loses" some things he thought he would for sure have, he'll get even uglier.

Maybe stop and determine how to put yourself first here. Remember, if you lose unhealthy relationships, actually, you didn't lose a thing!

Hi Feyth,
Yeah your Stbx is angry you are no longer under his domain. I think its great you are sticking to your guns and have an L to navigate these waters.
I'm sorry that now you are perceived as the enemy. Well, like others said the dog issue is problematic. As you probably guess he's going to try for the dog. Legally, as you know, dogs end up in judgements, so you can do your best, but there's also him, doing what he pleases to hurt you. I hope things eventually calm down for you. This is the worst of it.

Thank you Altair and hawho.

I am having a hard time today. Just can't seem to get moving. It's 1:30 and I'm still in my pjs. Was supposed to go to bootcamp and go for a run, but I cancelled. I have some cleaning and laundry to do, as well as legal paperwork, but I just can't do it. I'll get there.... I think Ill just start with a shower.

So, hawho, I like the suggestion of nc. The only reason we've even had contact is because of the dog. I don't know if we can come up with a legal agreement right away that can outline new stipulations.... But I would love to not see stbx for a month or longer. But I refuse to give up my dog. That little creature helped me soooo much through this whole ordeal.

I remember July of 2015, I had been in my apt for a few weeks and was still in my own fog about what was happening. One afternoon, I found myself lying on the living room floor sobbing. I ended up falling asleep with my arm straight out with my palm facing up. Within a few minutes, my pup grabbed his bed, dragged it next to me, laid down and placed his paw in my open palm. It was the sweetest thing. I truly think animals know when you're in pain and he has comforted me during the most difficult time of my entire life.

I'm upset and I have no idea how this is going to unfold. Just when I think I'm on the other side of the mountain, I see another taller and more precarious summit ahead of me. I just don't know how much I have left.

Oh and I totally agree with Job.... The more I show i want the dog, the more he's going to bully. This is psychological and emotional warfare and its devastating.

(((Feyth))), hang in there you have come so far don't let him spoil your good work. He doesn't deserve to have that power over you anymore. You are free of his controlling ways and he knows it and I think he can sense how much stronger you have become. He's losing the control and is panicking and that's when people start throwing unreasonable demands out.

You little pooch sounds so lovely....

Ah, that's a lovely story about your pup...xx

I can't recall if this has been posted before, but have you read Pigpen's thread and the exchanges with his STBXW about their doggy? Wonka gave him a great deal of advice about wording things.

This is just a thought, but rather than see your H just now, might it be an option for pup to be dropped off at a neutral place by one of you then picked up by the other? A mutual friend or even doggy day care if you use that?

We all have off days Feyth, just accept these when they happen and get back in the saddle as soon as you are able. All we need to do is keep moving forward with tiny steps, accepting invitations, trying new things, building our own lives and acting from our 'best' selves. If you do all of that, you can't really fail I promise - whatever H may be doing...xx

Oh my God Feyth, your pup went and got his bed to lie next to you. you can't get any sweeter and cuter than that!! I've never seen that before!

Happy Sunday and thank you for the check-in/ feedback.

Yes, my dog is the sweetest. I think in that moment, he knew. He's been a phenomenal companion throughout all of this.

Sotto, I will have to go back and re- read pp's thread.... Thank you for that suggestion.

I have a meeting with L tomorrow. I'm already anxious about it... But I know he's on my side so i just have to remain calm and talk through next steps.

Deeeep breaths. Wishing everyone a great day.

Deep deep breaths feyth!

((feyth))

Good luck today w/your lawyer. Take some deep breaths and ask questions if you have any.

Thank you everyone.

Meeting with the lawyer went ok. He does put my mind at ease and gets how difficult this is for me. He tells me to let him be the bad guy. Oyyyy.

I just feel guilt for not backing down (how messed up is that). I'm not being aggressive, I'm just not being submissive....and it kills me.

I feel sick to my stomach over it. My lawyer recommends we continue sharing the dog as usual as I will not be giving up my rights to him. We'll see how that goes.

I'm glad your meeting with the lawyer went well. Especially if he wants to be the bad guy

We all have bad days Feyth, some days I'm on autopilot and I do the absolute minimum to get through the day. Others I have the energy to do loads. It is a rollercoaster I guess.

Take care sweetie

Hi Feyth, I can recall finding it really difficult challenging things too. Part of me just wanted to say - oh heck it I'll just go with that. Then another part would think - heck, I'm not going to be betrayed, lied to and stitched up in a settlement too! I guess the feisty part won out and I don't have any regrets.

Ultimately, I didn't take XH to the cleaners - but I did insist on a fair formula being applied - total assets - minus what we each came in with (taken by each) and the rest split 50/50. I had to go through all the feelings you had in order to stick with that plan as XH suggested a range of things far short of that. He would toss things out and I would go back and say - we're just waiting for X before we consider that...and so on...

I don't believe you will regret it if you quietly and calmly stay the course. If I can do this, you can too! Xx

I'm glad the meeting w/the lawyer went okay. As long as you are fair that is all that matters. Now, in his mind, nothing will be fair no matter what...but I know that you will do right by your h.

Try to remain as calm as possible and don't forget to breathe along the way! If you have to step back a bit and regroup, that's okay.

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