http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...456#Post2706456Old thread above. If you really have some time to kill, you can trace back all 20 threads so far!
So, I went away last weekend and saw some old friends. First time I'd seen them since BD. Obviously, you get a lot of conflicting advice. One or two things keep cropping up though - the planting of the seed that I'm not 'available' anymore. A number of people have told me I should maybe 'date' a couple of times and that'll get her running back. My friends don't know I'm doing BD, so maybe that's to be expected, but I just wonder what other, more seasoned observers think?
I don't want to date, but should I tell some 'white lies' to maybe get this stuck position, unstuck?
Since I came back, W brought the kids over Tuesday and is always more reserved when SD is here. She tends to be more aggressive and cold. I don't get it at all. Then, out of the blue tonight, she calls to talk to me about the kids being off school and if I can have them additional days, as she has hairdressing clients to book in, as on the second week, she's off to visit her parents. Reasonable conversation I hear you say, but she's bringing the kids over in less than 24 hours, so surely it could wait until then? I'm confused. Again, W was incredibly nice on the phone, but my BD mind tells me this is probably crumbs.
I know it's a marathon etc., but I feel like I'm running several, all at once! Autumn is here now in the UK, and this week, the weather has turned distinctly cold and windy. I had hoped to not be in this situation so long, and I'll admit dear readers, I'm tired and can't think of ways, that haven't already been suggested to me, to jog things on a bit.
Hi Huddy, remember there is no magic bullet here. We don't get to do this and make them do that. I wouldn't go down the white lies route or consider dating. However, I would work towards a full and happy life for you - living 'as if' she were gone & weren't coming back. If that we're the case, would she be such a central focus for you? You still have a hold of that rope and want to give it a tug I think...😊
I don't know if I would lie about dating or not, but I do make jokes about finding a lover just to keep my friends from offering advice on me dating etc. I think DBing is a solo exercise and one that most people don't get. I spent weeks in the summer trying to explain to my friends back home the situation and I could see in their eyes they thought me crazy to be trying or delusional to think there is a chance. Do what makes YOU happy, your life is nobody else's business
Hi Sotto/Esame
Yes, I know it's a solo project, but, I'm running out of things to say to people who think I should be 'out and about', and, as you say Esame, they all think I'm barmy to wait.
Kids coming this weekend, so, I've got that to look forward to.
I am sorry you are stuck. Or that you are feeling stuck. I doubt there is much you can do to unstick your situation, at least not in the wayyou want.
Some tougher stance people will advise to start divorce proceedings or moving towards other Rs will jilt WAS into deciding to come back. I believe this can work BUT I imagine only if the WAS is in the right place at that time. Otherwise they don't really care. This is why I think such actions should not be taken with the sole intent to trigger a desirable action in W.
Your wife's journey could finish next week just as easily as next year. You have no idea how she will think then. Your best chance remains becoming the best happiest huddy possible. Plus that is win win regardless of her.
You have survived eight months of in house separation. That was tough but not only did you survive, you grew enormously in that time. I am sure, hat time posted little seeds of doubt in your Ws mind. Those seeds could be growing slowly but steadily.You have no way of knowing as she will keep it to herself until she is sure.
That reminds me of Chinese bamboo, something SH mentioned recently.it's seeds stay 5 years in the soil and it is only in its fifth year that it breaks the soil. That year it will grow 30m. Patience.
Your friends mean well, but only you walk in your shoes. And only you have to live with any decisions taken. I think it would be wrong to let them believe you are waiting for W. It could get back to her. Plus you need to live AS IF you are not waiting for her, AS IF she is never coming back. That seems to be an important ingredient to many reconciled couples.
I wish I could tell you how to do this. But I know you can.
Best wishes and enjoy your weekend.
HI Roist
An interesting perspective. It's all about survival really. As always, all comments are read, re-read and digested!
Hi Sotto/Esame
Yes, I know it's a solo project, but, I'm running out of things to say to people who think I should be 'out and about', and, as you say Esame, they all think I'm barmy to wait.
Kids coming this weekend, so, I've got that to look forward to.
Huddy - I feel your pain even though I'm not as far down the path as you. I think you could probably honestly tell people that you're "not ready".
I tend to agree with the other posters as well that trying to stir the pot (which I'm guilty of too) or of creating some sort of shock that you can't predict the outcome of may well backfire. On the other hand you can't predict the outcome of your current actions either. It's a tough road to walk.
Hi Andrew
Yes, I feel a physical pain sometimes. Like a dull ache in my left hand chest cavity. I just feel like this is never ending. 18 months and I don't feel that anything is moving on.
Anyway, in a 'you couldn't make it up' moment today, my nephew who I haven't spoken to in 15 years, showed up at my workplace. Not wanting to dredge up a story, but we lost contact when my mum died and my three sisters engineered a solution to deny me of any inheritance. Today he appeared and said that 'God had shown me the way'. Now, I'm not religious at all, but if that's his belief, then who am I to argue. Unfortunately we couldn't chat long as I was off for my train to pick up the kids. He told me that he always thought of me as 'his father figure' as he has never met his biological father. An unbelieveable situation. I've agreed to meet him on Sunday, when the kids have gone.
In other news, W arrived with the kids and she has started to wear some items of jewellery that I bought her or had repaired for her. She was wearing her Aunt's ring that had lost some stones, which I had repaired as part of her 50th birthday and a black rose stone ring that I bought her the previous Christmas. She saw me notice the rings, so she hid them in her coat pocket. She was wearing them on the middle finger of her ring hand. I haven't seen her wear those rings since BD, especially the rose one, as she seemed to have problems with the metal elements.
Bit of a blistering end to the afternoon and not exactly what I thought the day was going to be like.
Huddy, I'm really pleased to hear that your nephew reached out to you and I hope your meeting on Sunday goes well. I'm so sorry to hear about what happened within your family. So do you not have any contact with any of your sisters then?
As for your W, please remember to release rather than hold on. I worry that you scrutinise her for little 'signs' and then you post here....who knows what they may mean? After we D'd, I had my engagement ring resized to wear on my right hand. Really, just because it's an expensive ring and I like to wear it - not because I'm keen to retain a link with XH. Point I'm making is that ruminating on stuff like that is a cheeseless tunnel which keeps us a little stuck and attached I think.
I still feel that you watch, wait, feel frustrated and in pain and I would love to see you release that and move forward with your own plans. lose any feeling of waiting (standing is different to waiting) and live your life 'as if.' I'm not advocating dating (or D'ing) at all and I will never do so for anyone who is M - but in every way apart from that - live as though she won't return..I don't believe that would harm your sitch and it may do you a lot of good.
As you say it is 18 months now. Don't feel frustrated that nothing is moving on. Don't look to someone else to move on and feel frustrated. Do what you need to move yourself forward.
Have a good weekend xx
Hi Sotto
I have no contact with my three sisters at all, and that's just how I want it. My Mum was very ill, and after my Dad died, I had taken on and paid my Mum's mortgage and Council Tax, so that she could live in the house until she died. In return, she wrote a will that gave me the house. I had explained to my sisters that I didn't want the house, and would 'divvy' up the money when it sold, as I felt that was fair. Unfortunately, as my Mum declined, they asked to see the will, which I gave them (they were my family) and managed to get her to change it in to their favour. Whilst I could have persued through the courts (my Mum wasn't of sound mind in the end) it would have cost thousands and I had no guarantee of winning. Pure avarice and greed - I'll have no truck with that.
To me, being part of my kids life is very important to me, so, that's a happy life for me. Not being able to do that means I have to wait. I don't sit there waiting for W to call,but you have to wonder when this will end.
So, W coming over today to pick D up to take her to a birthday party,so me and S are going out and I plan to meet my nephew tomorrow.
Met one of my nephews for the first time (apart from Friday) for the first time in fifteen years today. Well, he's done well for himself. He's got a lovely little family of three and a nice wife. In an unbelieveable twist, they lived beside my MIL/FIL for a period a few years ago. I wonder if that is how he found me?
Anyway, in a bitter twist, I found out that his mother (my sister) abandoned him at age 20 and ran away with her new fella. He turned to soft drugs and got himself in a small amount of trouble, but after meeting his wife, he turned his life around and is now a manager at a manufacturing company. He asked about why I don't speak to any of my sisters, and he was slightly aware of what had gone off, which he had been told by one of my BIL's.
Another of my sisters wondered if we'd all like to meet up and talk, but I don't think I want that. The sucker to it all is that during his 'troubled' spell, he spent money on credit cards and ended up having to declare bankruptcy. Even though that is ten years ago, he still has difficulty getting credit and can't get a mortgage. That is one of the sad parts of life, and will always be a stain, even though he was, effectively, still a teen.
He mentioned that he'd found religion, which helped him through the tough times. Well, if that what worked for him, then great, but it's not my bag. He has a smashing set of kids and I'm really happy for him. We'll now stay in touch.
Have had the kids this weekend, which was good. My S tells me how much she misses me, which is hard, when I see W and she seems so content with her lot.
Another week chalked off the calendar, and a different one it turned out to be.
Hey dude.
I feel like a bit of a charlatan posting as I'm not doing DB anymore but I really need to ask this. The title of your post, and the closing gambit about another week chalked off. What are you waiting for? I mean really what are you waiting for? Is it your W coming to her senses?
Mate, when the people here say act 'as if' there is a very good reason for that. You've done some amazing and very Brave things since the chit hit the fan. But I get the feeling it's just a facade. Underneath I truly think you expect her to come to come to her senses. But what if she doesn't? Or it takes another 5 years?
Acting as if isn't about giving up. Not by a long shot but my man you still have a hold of that rope. Let it go man.
Peace
Huddy,
I'm only 9 months in so not in a position to offer you pearls of MLC wisdom, but I see a lot of sense in NDY's remarks. I’m still working towards dropping that rope myself. In some ways I know how you feel and why you look for signs in W’s behaviour/reactions. I still do it too but realise I must break free of it.
My MLC-er W seems to have a six-sense wrt my thinking sometimes, perhaps it’s my body language she picks up on. A few days ago my W seemed to read my mind, stating that I’m still thinking she will change her mind and recommit to the MR. I’m coming around to the idea that W’s MLC-ESP will only ever stop working when I am truly able to detach completely, and who knows it may be this very action that scares or jolts her out of the MLC rut.
Wouldn’t say I’m devout but do have some loose religious beliefs, maybe there is a higher power at work in terms of reconnecting you with some of your family? In any case, glad your nephew is now doing well and hope this relationship keeps going & growing.
Keep making the most of those opportunities with your children.
Rooting for you; all the best.
Hi NDY
An unusually incendiary post! OK, I'll play!
I look at it like this. Dropping the rope - what does that really mean? Is it that we just give up and move on? With respect, it's easier for you and Sotto as you have had the dreaded D and you can now look for something new, in the probably knowledge that your other half ain't coming back.
To me, dropping the rope, means that I do everything for myself and GAL (in my own way) and I don't contact W. I don't see it as giving up hope. The alternative, which I'm willing to be corrected upon,is that I decide to throw caution to the wind and start dating. That, to me, seems to be what you're kinda suggesting. I don't want to date, because I know that if I did start seeing somebody, and W decided to return, I would drop them faster than a hot potato. So, I'm all out of ideas as to what else you suggest I should do to drop the rope.
As for chalking off another week and looking for signs, that's me journaling. I have nobody else I can talk with about this. My friends are 230 miles away; I work with some of the most patronising, self promoting, facile people you can imagine and we have a new MD who seems to be hell bent on trying to get rid of us all. I chalk off weeks, so that I can look forward to spending time with the people I love - my children.
Oh, and while I'm here, W has done another one of those dating site things again (left open on a tab, again, on my S's tablet), this one called 'Plenty of Fish'. As before,she hasn't completed her details, replied to messages or uploaded photos, so, if this is some kind of goading mechanism for me to leap in to begging mode, I'm not.
To be brutally honest, I am well and truly pi$$ed off with life right now and it suxs. I am doing my gym routine five days a week, with positive improvements, and I have the kids all next week for the first part of the holidays. Oh, W decided to spew at me about that as well, as she said I should 'consult' with her when I'm picking my holidays, as my SD will now have to catch the bus to college, because W is taking the kids to her parents. So, that's my fault then, right? No, it's not, and I'm not going to have an infantile fight with her over that bollox.
I think I have done as much as I can to distance myself from W and let her make her own mistakes and only when I'm good and ready will I throw in the towel (by christ, I'm so close right now) and sail off down the river. Right now, I quite fancy just taking off and forgetting everything. The only things keeping me here right now is my children, who I love so very much.
Hi HTM
I'm not normally so indignant or arrogant, but this past four weeks has been particularly trying.
I think that W's do have a six sense. I sometimes think that they are like cats; toying with us like baubles on a Christmas tree, waiting to pounce and then letting us off the hook for another go.
As for divine intervention, well, I'm not religious, but if some higher being has plans for me, I wish he/she would show their hand, as I'm really tired of this poker game and I want to cash out or win the jackpot.
Yes, seeing my nephew was a shock and just goes to show that wherever you are, if somebody really wants to find you, they will.
Hi Huddy, I'm glad your meeting with your nephew went well. Yes, I would agree that the D can help bring closure - even though unwanted..
What I'd like you to consider is the ground between 'I'm attached to my W and counting off weeks of this MLC prison sentence' and 'I've given up and am dating.' Okay, I'm being facetious here - but I think there is plenty of life to be lived in the territory between the two 'states of being.'
I'm talking about working towards greater detachment and letting her be, whilst living your life as fully as possible, whilst also standing for the M if you so choose....
I can see that you are doing the latter, and I would love to see you progressing more with the former two. It reads as though you have put your own life more or less on hold until she either 'wakes up' or you 'move on and date.'
That's just what I'm seeing from what you post anyway...and I don't really think being D'd makes all the difference. Many posters here live full lives and are minimally affected by their MLC spouse's actions whilst still married.
Hope this helps Huddy, and I hope you'll have a think about what is being suggested xx
Hi mate
I think Sotto put it very well. It's like you're waiting on something. Anything to change this situation. But you can only make changes for you. What happens with your W is just as much up to her as you.
You're at that point. I was there not so long ago when you finally say [self censored] it and just go get on with it. It's easier for me because I don't need to lay eyes on my EX. Haven't seen her for months. Only communication is electronically. And I'm ok with that.
And that's dropping the rope. I don't look for signs and I don't look for hints. They say not to let the WAS affect your mood or anything else for that matter. That to me is letting go.
Example. I don't have my ex on my Facebook. Not interested in what she does or with whome. But then a few weeks ago a post comes up from my cousin who was out for lunch with my ex. My cousin. Why was she out with my cousin? Don't care. None of my business.
See the difference mate? If they were you I'd expect some mind of mind reading. Like the rings thing. I may be wrong but I don't think so.
Go have a great life Huddy. Keep posting here. I may even start a new one myself. Just because this is a great place to let it all out and you do. You say what you feel and wear your heart on your sleeve. I just don't want you to suffer anymore.
And dude. If you feel ready to date you crack on. But don't do it in the hope your w will get jealous and come running home. She may not and it's not fair on the other woman. Do it when and if you are done. Not before.
Peace buddy. You have my number if you want to talk one on one. I'm there for you.
Hi NDY
An unusually incendiary post! OK, I'll play!
I look at it like this. Dropping the rope - what does that really mean? Is it that we just give up and move on? With respect, it's easier for you and Sotto as you have had the dreaded D and you can now look for something new, in the probably knowledge that your other half ain't coming back.
To me, dropping the rope, means that I do everything for myself and GAL (in my own way) and I don't contact W. I don't see it as giving up hope. The alternative, which I'm willing to be corrected upon,is that I decide to throw caution to the wind and start dating. That, to me, seems to be what you're kinda suggesting. I don't want to date, because I know that if I did start seeing somebody, and W decided to return, I would drop them faster than a hot potato. So, I'm all out of ideas as to what else you suggest I should do to drop the rope.
Ok, the Dropping rope thing. Maybe ^^^ up there is what it means, for me when I say drop the rope, or I dropped the rope its basically saying I have reached that detachment point where whatever she does, whenever, with whomever its does not phase me, I have let go of that rope attached to her ship so she can go sail the waters she needs to sail and end up wherever her journey takes her. This does not mean I do not care, nor am I jumping for joy and moving on. Simply means I have come to a place of acceptance and realized by me holding on I was actually hurting her chances of figuring things out as well as my own in effect hurting us both.
As far as Dating goes, thats something that is as unique as us all ... I tried it and it was not for me, I was just not ready and the people I met were in a different place than I was... its a very personal decision and I can not recall one person in the MLC arena that has said ... "Hey you really should date" ..... in fact I read after all we have been through one should allow 3-4 years of healing and growth prior to even really considering it.
As for chalking off another week and looking for signs, that's me journaling. I have nobody else I can talk with about this. My friends are 230 miles away; I work with some of the most patronising, self promoting, facile people you can imagine and we have a new MD who seems to be hell bent on trying to get rid of us all. I chalk off weeks, so that I can look forward to spending time with the people I love - my children.
Oh, and while I'm here, W has done another one of those dating site things again (left open on a tab, again, on my S's tablet), this one called 'Plenty of Fish'. As before,she hasn't completed her details, replied to messages or uploaded photos, so, if this is some kind of goading mechanism for me to leap in to begging mode, I'm not.
To be brutally honest, I am well and truly pi$$ed off with life right now and it suxs. I am doing my gym routine five days a week, with positive improvements, and I have the kids all next week for the first part of the holidays. Oh, W decided to spew at me about that as well, as she said I should 'consult' with her when I'm picking my holidays, as my SD will now have to catch the bus to college, because W is taking the kids to her parents. So, that's my fault then, right? No, it's not, and I'm not going to have an infantile fight with her over that bollox.
A very wise woman (uR) drilled into my head .. the anger is ok to feel ... just do not live there. We can always punch the air ad ask why me, this is not fair, this [censored] but all this does little to improve our sitch, our perspective nor our life. Let her spin and spew about what when where for the holidays this is just another reminder life is not that grand in MLCville
I think I have done as much as I can to distance myself from W and let her make her own mistakes and only when I'm good and ready will I throw in the towel (by christ, I'm so close right now) and sail off down the river. Right now, I quite fancy just taking off and forgetting everything. The only things keeping me here right now is my children, who I love so very much.
I'm not normally so indignant or arrogant, but this past four weeks has been particularly trying.
I think that W's do have a six sense. I sometimes think that they are like cats; toying with us like baubles on a Christmas tree, waiting to pounce and then letting us off the hook for another go.
As for divine intervention, well, I'm not religious, but if some higher being has plans for me, I wish he/she would show their hand, as I'm really tired of this poker game and I want to cash out or win the jackpot.
Yes, seeing my nephew was a shock and just goes to show that wherever you are, if somebody really wants to find you, they will.
Man .... I can attest to that ... my STBX had me on lock down as soon as I moved she called me on it and there was no way she could have known, its like they absolutely have that MLC 6th sense. Thing is its only when you are nto staying where they put you do they care.
I will tell you this, this side of MLC is hard and I truly believe its a bit different for a LBH than a LBW, I carefully did not say easier/harder ... just different as laws of attraction go along with us men having to appear strong when that initial fear of losing it all makes us want to go stage 5 clinger.
You will navigate this as only YOU can ... people here like myself have done this that or the other and bottom line its about the personal growth for the LBS I feel far more than where the MLCr is and in what tunnel .... something out of our control regardless. I thought I did it all to the letter and my W did return .... not fully baked and I knew it but I had her back none the less and settled. Was just like that movie Pet Semetary where they burried the beloved pet/son and yeah ... they had them back but was very much not what they expected. In hindsight I needed more work as did she, I needed to be stronger to lead the way and not bend, not be afraid of losing ..... she needs still to face her own demons and come to terms with that. MLC is not a wait it out thing, lessons to be learned for both parties regardless of the outcome.
Good Luck.
Hi All
Thanks for stopping by last night. As may have become apparent, my mind was not in a great place last night and I kinda just let it all go. Hope nobody was offended.
I am kinda at a place where W's actions don't affect me in the physical sense. Yes, I know she's trying to manipulate me in to some kind of argument or something to see that I'm still attached. Well, I don't take the bait, and I certainly wouldn't mention the dating site thing to her (it's actually kind of sad - not the site, but the fact that she feels happiness will come bounding out of the internet).
So, why am I so 'attached'? Well, I know that most of you know I live 230 miles away from my birth place and my parents are dead and gone. My family are nothing to me (read further up this thread for that reason) and most of my work colleagues are either too busy creeping to the new MD, or, fighting for recognition amongst themselves for promotion. I have a couple of colleagues that I talk to about 'stuff', but they're blokes, and they just don't offer that sense of knowledge. One of these guys is 'gay' for want of a better word, so doesn't really understand female relationships and the other just keeps telling me to tell her to 'f*** off'.
When we moved here, we surrounded ourselves with ourselves. We didn't exactly meet with lots of people and we put our heart and soul in to looking after us. My family fallout, put with W's problems with her family over the years (again, read back about her Dad etc.) meant we kinda just did our own thing. I got homesick and got a bit depressed for a couple of years and W pulled the 'I'll leave if you don't pull yourself around' line. That was about 10 years ago and then our S and D came along and we just got so intertwined.
We had a really bad spell at work, so the boss decided that we needed to start bonding and started 'nights out', about once a month. Initially, W said that it was a good idea, but slowly started to resent the fact that I went out once a month, whilst she was at home. She said 'you get to play at being an adult'. With my S's autism, I also started to work more hours as W couldn't work full time and I needed additional holiday days, as W couldn't/didn't want to look after him on her own through the full six week school holidays.
There was an incident, whilst I was at work, when she called me, in floods of tears, saying that she couldn't cope with my S's behaviour (he went through a stage of gouging at people when he was about 3) and that she was going to 'do something'. Obviously, I went straight home to sort it out and get help. For a short while, W was self medicating with strong cough medicine to help her through the day. I hope that helps you understand why, after all this, detachment is difficult.
She has kinda 'friended' my SD. Things like buying the same dresses and talking about music etc. (rap -I mean, why would a 51 year old woman, suddenly become interested in rap!). I notice that is now becoming a desert zone, as my SD has started spending more and more time at her boyfriends.
I definitely don't want to date. I did have a coffee with a woman in February and I knew instantly that, despite her attractiveness, if W had have come begging at the door, that other woman would have been left like yesterdays' old meal. That wouldn't have been fair to her at all, as she was also on the road from a divorce.
I have done some extraordinary things this year (Hong Kong, holiday on my own with the kids etc.), but I'm actually quite a home bird, and going to clubs etc. doesn't really set my world on fire. I don't do facebook, twitter etc., so I haven't got that to worry about.
Yes, I look for signs - didn't we all? She probably still senses that I earn for her, but I don't show it and won't be begging her back. I'm just, as the title of this thread suggests, a bit stuck, wanting to move forward, but not sure how I do that without entering some kinda weird MLC world myself - do you get what I mean?
I know the MLC'er has to find it all out on own, but what I just don't understand is, and tis is the killer question, why? Why can't they see that everything the need and desire is right in front of them? Why the destructive path, to find, judging by most people's experiences, everything was right at the beginning, or, just sadness, lonliness and pain? I suppose if we could answer all that, we'd be rich!
Huddy .... all that ^^^ just honesty and I completely get where you are and the why's behind it. I too did not have much in the way of a 'support group' outside of this forum and those I did trust, well who wants to talk about a crazed MLCr day in and day out ... which is what this place if for, journal and vent and get it out which really does help just doing that.
Reading a bit of your post, have you ever thought that you both became a bit co-dependent? I know in my case we both were which really did not help her much as she was in the tunnel, torn on letting go completely and really getting into her tunnels ... the temp/anchor checks became exhausting and I was not strong enough to see them for what they were thinking foolishly she would be the record setting MLCr and be done with it all in a year. So over time I did things out of my comfort zone, I play softball once a week ... football once a week and like you from the sounds there is always work to keep busy.
As far as that last paragraph. They are so deep in the depression they really can nto see past their own interests, the chase to do what they can to avoid/stop the pain consumes them so one they do not even recall what they are doing much, two they really do not care as its a case os self survival. They have convinced themselves that what is right out in front of them is not going to help (They are actually correct in this ... we can not fix them) but conversely ... that we the LBS are actually the problem (Not true but will take them the crisis to figure this out ... if they ever do)
They need to get to the root of the issue, to do this they will pull everything out of the garden so to speak till they find that one weed that started it all. Not much we can do but become strong enough to allow them to freely go about on this journey and in the meantime its a great opportunity to develop into a very strong individual .... when and if they wake we will need every ounce of strength we can get.
Hi Caliguy
Yeah, we probably we too co-dependant, but that was the circumstance we were in. I never stopped W having other people to talk too; there were a couple of people she talked to, but she found it difficult, in my eyes, to actually want to form a strong bond with anybody. Only just before BD did she actually latch on to a 'friend' who was having issues in there marriage. W though got burned on that one as they got back together and had a baby, reducing W from being a friend to just another parent at school.
Going to the gym is out of my comfort zone. Everybody seems to be younger, fitter, more exquisite that a middle aged, greying guy who is busy shifting weights. I'm quite impressed with myself though. I now have pretty good leg definition and my arm muscles have grown, meaning I now have significant upper body strength again.
I still feel that W's MLC ticked off when she entered menopause. I also felt she was getting depressed at home (am I the cause, working extra hours to cater for everything?) and I did ask her to see a doctor, but I was told I was pushing her and not soon after we reached BD. I still think it's all about her age and growing older, but I always told her how much she meant to me and how much I still fancied her. Ah well.
I recall once reading a post - I think it was by one of our vets...
She said to really imagine that your W were completely gone (perhaps even died) and you had fully finished grieving - and you were not dating.
She said sit and imagine what would be the best possible life for you given all those circumstances. What would you be doing? How would you spend your leisure time? Who would that be with? What work would you do? What would bring you pleasure?
Really taste, touch and smell what that life would be like...is that something you would find helpful?
Spend a little time on that, and when the vision of that life is fresh in your mind - start taking some steps to create that life for yourself right now....
I think it was 25yrsMLC posted that. She and her H were S for 2.5 years and reconciled. She did a lot of new stuff during that time..
Hope this helps Huddy :-)
Oh, and the other thing I would say is....when I gently suggest further GAL activities, I'm not suggesting you go clubbing at all my friend...
There are so many gentle forms of GAL that still extend you a little and get you out and about with others - photography class, nature walks, book groups...whatever floats your boat really...
Hey Dude
Gonna bounce about your posts a little here, so apologise in advance
I know the MLC'er has to find it all out on own, but what I just don't understand is, and tis is the killer question, why? Why can't they see that everything the need and desire is right in front of them? Why the destructive path, to find, judging by most people's experiences, everything was right at the beginning, or, just sadness, lonliness and pain? I suppose if we could answer all that, we'd be rich!
Yip, why indeed? Job and Cadet have put some some excellent stuff about this on other threads. Probably a good idea for you to go seek that out. But, what does this do to help? Not a thing. As we all know the MLC'er needs to come to their own conclusions and go on their own journey to realise they have a problem. If they have a problem that is. For all we know our EX's may well be perfectly happy with the new lives they've created.
See, they say that depression is the underlying cause in a MLC. And anyone that knows anything about depression will tell you that on the surface they can appear perfectly happy but are not. But equally they can be perfectly happy and not depressed. We have no idea. Hence let it go.
I still feel that W's MLC ticked off when she entered menopause. I also felt she was getting depressed at home (am I the cause, working extra hours to cater for everything?) and I did ask her to see a doctor, but I was told I was pushing her and not soon after we reached BD. I still think it's all about her age and growing older, but I always told her how much she meant to me and how much I still fancied her. Ah well.
Even if this were true how does it help? Ok you saw an issue back then but that was then. This is now. We all know we cant argue or medicate them back to the R. So all this does is vindicate you as being the innocent party. Still wont get your M on track. May make you feel a little better but Im willing to bet your W sees it completely different to this. It's all fine pointing at a cause. But thats not the problem. Its the effect.
Back when I suspected my Ex as having a MLC (I still do btw, but thats for another day) I read an excellent article published by psycology today on the female MLC. I didnt read anything on the Male MLC so no idea if they are different or the same. But the central premis was around creating perfection. In other words. They have the near perfect life. The loving caring husband, the beautiful kids, the nice house, the good lifestyle etc but its just not ticking the boxes.They trade all that in for an upgrade. This is exactly what my Ex did. Its very shallow and materalistic but I believe a real phonemonon. I could delve into this further but its better you look into this yourself. I believe that there are a lot of remarried folk out there that are not truly happy but just can't face admitting they made the biggest mistake of their lives.
And mate, I really hope this helps. Moving on is hard. Really hard. I understand you still love your W. Your 2 year anniversery of BD is coming soon. Mine is next month. 2 Years Huddy. 2 [self censored] years. Remember that for her she was unhappy long before BD. Long before it.
Peace friend
Hi Sotto
I have thought like this and continue to do as much as I can. Of course, if I had limitless supplies of money and copious time off, I'd go travelling! Thanks.
Hi NDY
Just journaling my thoughts about MLC and causes. I've seen your old life and it was pretty good. Yep, you're right, we did our best and brought home the bacon, provided the nice houses and brought great kids in to the world. When I moved to the flat, I actually got rid of a lot of stuff that I had collected over the years. Materialistic stuff that I really didn't need and wasn't of any use to me. I did actually feel better after that. Stuff just doesn't do it for me anymore, but I see what you're saying.
I keep reading and re-reading all the stuff from Cadet, Job and Jack about MLC etc. I might look up that psychology article - is it online? I suppose my biggest fear is that W does indeed realise that she has made a mistake, but is too stubborn to walk back. In the end, nothing I can do can change that.
I remember you were about six months in when I came to the board. I thought It'd be all over by now!
I keep reading and re-reading all the stuff from Cadet, Job and Jack about MLC etc. I might look up that psychology article - is it online? I suppose my biggest fear is that W does indeed realise that she has made a mistake, but is too stubborn to walk back. In the end, nothing I can do can change that.
Yea, google the female MLC and look for the one from the institute of psychology
I remember you were about six months in when I came to the board. I thought It'd be all over by now!
Yip, and it nearly is for me. Close to the 2nd anniversary of BD my D is all but final. It didn't work out the way I'd originally hoped but there you go. It is what it is.
When I get more time I'm going to start another thread. Not sure if this is the right place or not but I suspect MLC is at the core of my sitch as well.
Hi NDY
Thanks. I will look that up today.
It is sad as I saw your house etc. and it was a beautiful home. I can imagine it was a really comfortable existence.
I think a thread from you would be good for newbies. It might put a few of them off, but I certainly welcomed your viewpoint and understanding.
Hi NDY
I think a thread from you would be good for newbies. It might put a few of them off, but I certainly welcomed your viewpoint and understanding.
I don't think newbies is the right forum for me. I only really came back here to see how you were doing.
No not newbies, but on here where MLC newbies drift after a bit. I think your insight, especially some of your earlier thoughts and actions, might be beneficial for some people. Remember busting moves in the living room!
No not newbies, but on here where MLC newbies drift after a bit. I think your insight, especially some of your earlier thoughts and actions, might be beneficial for some people. Remember busting moves in the living room!
God yes. I do remember that. Feels like a million years ago now. Ok I'll have a think and start posting something up.
There was one other thing I wanted to mention to you. Remember the 50 Shades convo's? Well there's a new totally unrealistic story out there to warp minds. A female friend went to see the new Bridget Jones film. Basic premise is she's pregnant but she doesn't know who the father is. It's either the love interest on some random guy she had a one night fling with. Then the story is all about these two men chasing after her and becoming friends in the end. Oh and she marries the love interest. Seriously? Your long term girlfriend tells you shes pregnant and not sure if the baby is yours or not? And you become friends with the OM and marry the WW? Get real.
"I suppose my biggest fear is that W does indeed realise that she has made a mistake, but is too stubborn to walk back."
I can understand you feeling this way and that's the really important thing to remember - she has free will and she will decide what to do. Always remember to keep your own life in your own hands and move forward yourself regardless..
"In the end, nothing I can do can change that."
I think DBing can give us a fighting chance and we can certainly stop some of the behaviours that drive others away. Whether DBing draws someone back is another thing. Some spouses do return and some don't. Hence the advice to live your life the way you want to live it right now and don't put anything on hold (apart from D and dating.)
I feel any time I mention extending yourself further or GALing you brush it off (I hope you don't mind me commenting that.) Why is that the case do you think my friend?
Hope today has been a good one for you
Hi NDY
Ha, ha! I remember that convo in the really dark days.
I never bought in to that Bridget Jones thing. As you say, who in their right mind would befriend the person who has been messing about with your other half. I mean, who on earth comes up with this nonsense. Ah, the ever wonderful 50 shades! I wonder how many good marriages have been warped by that rubbish? I have watched it and, to be honest, I thought it was a weak movie and basically just soft porn.
Hi Sotto
No, I'm not brushing it off, I just haven't the desire to meet up with lots of people and groups. I just like certain things and being sociable in groups or clubs I find difficult. Unfortunately, I have a very a job where I have to do investigations and you find that people you trusted actually turn out to be rotten apples. I therefore find it difficult to trust strangers (seems strange then being on this forum - but, we're all in the shite together here!).
I love reading and watching old British films from the 50'/70's and I love doing things with my kids. I know it's not setting some people's world's alight, but that's me! As I say, I also love travel and going places, but, as you'll concur, when you're on your own, your money doesn't stretch as far as you'd like.
Oh, by the way Sotto, nothing you say annoys me. I appreciate everybody who visits my thread - hope you don't feel that way
Yeah, I thought my situation would have moved more one way or the other too. After six months I posted something like that and Cadet rewarned me about EXPECTATIONS and TIME.
You have had some good advice recently so I have nothing much to add. I will chip in if I have some useful thoughts for you.
You have come along way. Keep going.
All the best
Hi Huddy. Thought I'd pop in to say hello.
I wanted to tell you that it is perfectly normal for you to have the feelings you do.
I remember thinking...come on already..get through your crisis. Then I realized, it takes as long as it does. No short cuts through it.
That's why you have to throw out any expectations of how this will go because that can make you crazy.
It all happens differently for everyone because people are different, their life experiences are different.
I see you still looking at her trying to find meaning in a convo or visit. That is crazy making, too.
THe reason is we arent in crisis, so we just dont get it.
I have been around a long time. I helped my therapist run some groups for people in a MLC and for those affected by one. And what I learned is this.
Those in crisis feel as if they are swimming in mud with 100 pounds on their backs. They dont know why. They just want to feel better.
They will do anything in order to.
The only way for you through this...is to live your life. The less you look over your shoulder at her, the easier it is for you.
When they dont feel the pull of you, they feel lighter and then you do, too.
I understand how you feel about groups of people. It was/is difficult for me, too.
But the great thing about this journey is that you get to stretch yourself.
It took awhile, but, I forced myself to do some things I didnt want to. I was very uncomfortable for a long time, but, I kept doing it.
I will never be someone who jumps right in to a group of people, but, I do enjoy it a lot more.
Is there something you have always wanted to try? Pushing yourself out of your comfort zone allows you to grow.
Who do you want to see when you look back at this time? Who do you want her to see?
Hi URWorthy
Thanks for dropping by! I've got the kids this week, so I'm kinda mega busy. Yes I know it's madness to look at every sign and think 'hmm', but I'm human.
Let's take this Friday, when she came to drop them off for the week. Very courteous, no spew and was asking me about the meet up with my nephew. She was distinctly nervous when I told her that he'd lived beside her parents, and her Dad had started taking him to the mosque (my W is half UK White and half arab - although that isn't from her Dad, as she didn't know her biological father). She began questioning me on what I'd told him about 'us' (a few months ago, there was no us). I explained what had gone off and she went kinda embarrassed. I could guess and say she's told her parents a whole host of different things, but I don't know. She's off to see them next week with the kids.
She then started talking about my sisters. Read further up this thread as to the why's and wherefore's, but started talking about forgiveness. I explained that I could forgive anything, but the person I would be forgiving would have to have some contrition and actually want to be meaningful and constructive. Again, no idea what she really meant, but she stayed for about 15 minutes, just talking.
Anyway, back to me, pushing my comfort zone is the gym. A long time ago, I was reasonably fit and strong. I noticed my upper body strength had been going away, and I have now built it back up. I'm not some stunner, and I could probably be the father to most of the people in there, but it took some gumption to actually get off my backside and sign up. Just getting changed amongst strangers was a minor mountain I climbed.
Whacked out with the kids today. Edinburgh yesterday, Glasgow today, back to Edinburgh tomorrow. My wallet is feeling the pain!
Having had the kids all week, W called to pick them up a few hours early. That's fine, she's going to her parents tomorrow and it's a long drive.
Kids have been fine all week, but my S can get a bit edgy with his autism. He is on a medicine that controls his concentration, but it has a by product of supressing his appetite. He has lost a bit of weight, so, I haven't been giving him this medicine until he's had some food.
Ah, that is the spewing point for W! When she arrives, my S has a mild tantrum, and of course, that's my fault! Nothing to do with the fact that the kids have had great fun, and tell me how much they miss and love me as they are leaving.
W only called them once during the week, and was pleasant, as she was when she brought them over, but she's back to spewing monster. Oh well, I did think that part of the process was over and now she's off to her parents and SIL to ramp up the anti huddy feeling.
Anyway, I'm going to catch up with some TV I couldn't watch with the kids here (you know, swearing in it) and have a bit of a rest. I've re-grown my beard this week. I shaved it off in August 2015, as W used to love me having a beard, and I did it in a fit of pique. Actually, I detest shaving, with a passion, and I'm fed up with slicing my neck to shreds! It's coming on, and when I get a chance next week, I will get it blended in to the remains of my hair. Funnily, W didn't look at me once whilst she was here, until she spewed on her way out - funny that!
I read somewhere that eye contact is too intense for them.
Hi Roist
Yeah, I think it's on one of job/cadet's homework files. I remember reading it somewhere, but it's the first time I really noticed it. Not one look until she was out of the door and spewing. By this time I was busy waving to the kids, which may have made her go loopy a little bit more, as she was still spewing in the car park, talking to herself, whilst I was looking out of the window, blowing kisses to my D. She never even looked then!
Have a good weekend Roist!
This is just something to read if you're a newbie and looking for some advice. Never, ever make your children part of the situation. Never make them choose; never play one of you off the other. Why am I saying this?
Last night, I got a spew text. It was about, as predicted, about the medicine that we give to our S to help control his autism. It was a 'telling off' text, telling me how and when I should give him his medicine, whilst he is in my home. I decided that I didn't want, or need, to reply to that, and let it ride.
I could have got in to a whole 'text tennis' conversation about this, but in the end, it's about the healthcare of my S, not any problem between W and me. I think, and this has been backed up by my S's specialist, that my S is actually acting out and letting us know how unhappy he is with the situation. My S only started getting edgy when W came for him; he'd ben fine all morning/early afternoon. I could have reiterated that, but I chose not to. What would it actually achieved, if I'd have bit? Would it have eased my S's unhappiness? No. Would it have given W some control over the situation? Probably.
Children will be able to pick up vibes and will be analysing situations, without your knowledge. My S can't really communicate, but my D and SD can and my D, especially, can ask difficult and pointed questions.
Whatever you do, treat your MLC'er with nothing but courtesy whilst the kids are in your presence and never bad mouth them. Your kids didn't chose any of this, so don't bring them in to it. I've never said anything nasty about W to them and have always made my kids know how much they are loved by both of us.
My W is now off to her parents for a week. I've texted my SD to let me know if she needs any help whilst W is away. Despite being 21, she's quite a nieve one, so it was nice to get a text back saying 'Thank you Dad XXX'. I offered her to come over and stay with me whilst W was away, but she's has decided to stay at W's house and bring her boyfriend around! Anyway, I'm there for her, and always will be.
Hey Dude
Have you searched for the stages of the femail midlife crises yet? If not I would if I were you. It'll help you to understand where she is if she truly is in a MLC. The more I see on this subject the more I'm convinced that's what's happening with my EXW. Too many red flags.
In particular the anger stage then the replay stage. Bear in mind the transition isn't linear and the overlaps are astounding but have a look. It won't help your W but it will help you. Trust me if you take the time to type it out Job will most likely make it a sticky.
Hi NDY
Yes, I looked, but I either wasn't looking in the right place, or I picked up the wrong article as I was directed to a US site. I will have another look this week, now I've got a bit more time. It is a pity that we can't post links on here, but I understand that somebody would be posting nonsense about diet pills or worse!
How's you S getting on with the D? Red flags from your exW? Is she sending distress signals?
S11 is just fine mate. He's handeling this like a pro.
As for the red flags. Nah she's not sending any signals. But with a mixture of what I've read here and other searches she's in the thick of a doozie. It's a shame really because I know what's coming for her. And I won't be there to pick up the piecies.
She is/was the perfect storm. And it's coming. It'll take a while yet because she's still seeking that perfection. You get that. And when it starts to crumble she'll transition from replay to depression. Which is what this has always been about. What a sad, sad state of affairs.
Oh and the original article I was talking about is in psychology today. Read them both. Very enlightening.
Hi Huddy,
Your latest posts regarding your son resonated with me. My eldest is on the autistic spectrum (he was diagnosed with Asperger's but it is all under the same umbrella term now isn't it?). I'm worried about him because it will be harder for him to understand what's happening, his word is very much black and white at the moment, with no room for greys etc. I think you and your son are dealing with things "like a Pro" as NDY put it. I also think you dealt with your wife's messages appropriately, I think she wants the best for your son, and really there is no need for a text war. I'm going to try to deal with my husband's parenting advice (usually comes in the form of lectures) in a similar manner, let's hope that it works.
NDY,
The individual (two names together) that you were referencing earlier was once a poster on this forum and some of her threads are still around. However, because she has her own forum, out of respect for Michele and the work she does, we do not reference other sites or provide links to such sites on Michele's forums.
As for your wife going from replay to depression...nope. She was already in depression when she hit the first stage. In fact, the depression had already begun 18-24 months prior to the bomb drop. The stages aren't linear. They can bounce from denial, anger replay depression and withdrawal and back again. Acceptance is the only stage whereby they actually begin to wake up and sometimes fight tooth and nail to come out the other side and then if they return home, it takes another 18-24 months for them to feel comfortable in their own skin and under the same roof w/their spouse again.
Depression is the main ingredient of a MLC, i.e., they go hand and hand for both men and women. The stage of depression that is referenced all over the place is the very deep, dark depression and they tend to really look awful during that time as well as withdraw from the things that they use to do and/or like.
Again, the stages aren't linear and replay will take as long as it takes to work thru. Sometimes this is the longest running stage of them all. The stages and timelines that my friend referenced are guidelines only. Each person is unique and so shall each crisis be unique. Some are shorter, others are longer and then there are those that remain stuck.
Hi NDY
Found what I was being referenced to! Glad that your S is coping OK. I know you can't be there for her when she pulls out, and I know the reasons, but I'm glad you are having some peace.
Hi Esame
Yes, it's all just referred to as the Autistic Spectrum (or ASD), but labels still exist in an unofficial form (for my S it's ADD).
At the moment, I have to provide the best, most loving environment whilst he is with me. I can argue my piece with W, but she isn't in 'listening' mode, I don't think I'll have any luck. I don't know about your H, but my W delivers her sermons when she's leaving, trying to sting me and leave me with a bad feeling. I now just let it ride over me. It's the best way.
@Job
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I appreciate everything you said. Thing is that I'm not sure if my ExW is in MLC or not. She displays many of the characteristics described in both the homework you provide to noobs and from other sources.
For example, the 18 - 24 month guideline you provide fits perfectly with her. Back in 2013 two life events took place that I still think have a large bearing on this mess. First she turned 40, then not long after her father passed away in horrific circumstances. About a year after his passing she went from a loving caring fun woman to suddenly in a full blown affair. Equally though in the few times I've seen her (I went very dark and haven't laid eyes on her in a long time) she looked anything but terrible. I know some people can bury their depression and can make it look to the outside world that they are fine but on the other hand perhaps she is fine and MLC has nothing to do with this.
This could all just be me trying to make sense of this. It would be easy to label this with a condition, makes for an easy scapegoat but I equally have to accept that she just wanted out.
@Huddy - sorry for the minor hijack. Back to your sitch.
Hi NDY
Hijack away - we're all in the brown stuff together!
I, like you, was very wary about calling it as a MLC. Like you, I see no obvious signs of depression (well, not now, but at the start) and she seems as if life is just dandy, but I think I've read on here that MLC'ers become very good at hiding the signs, and convince themselves that everything is OK, when it's not.
In my sitch, the most obvious sign is W having the tummy tuck and teeth whitening. Then there was the 'you're taking it out on me' speech when I went away with the kids, and they told her how much of a wonderful time they had and she just saw red.
Maybe it's how we, as either a LBS or sane spouse, are interpreting the signals is the problem and maybe, as we don't see out MLC'er that often (more in my case, as you are pulling off going dark well) that the outward signs being given are a smokescreen to hide the pain. Probably one for job/j3b/wonka to comment on having seen the other side of an MLC.
Your spouses could very well be wearing masks around you. They can appear happy as clams and when alone, could be "Debbie Downers". If you don't see them very often, then you have no way of knowing just how depressed they are. Depression can take on many forms.
I'm linking a thread that I created many, many years ago that might prove helpful to you:
In Tandem -- MLC and Depression
Hi Job
This isn't my thread so I'll make this brief. Thanks for posting that link. As you say I can't tell either way if my ExW is experiencing any of those emotions or not. So I'll default to the position that she's genuinely happier where she is. The simpler answer is usually correct.
I came back here to find out how my good friend Huddybis doing. And now I find myself getting sucked back in. The Expectations and the negative thoughts are creeping back in. I had let it go. Now I'm clawing it back. And it's unhealthy for me.
I had let it go and now not so much. It's dragging me down so I'm taking a break again. I can't keep cycling. I need to be away from here.
Huddy. Text me mate. I'm always here for you. You know this.
Peace and bye.
Hi NDY
At the moment, I have to provide the best, most loving environment whilst he is with me. I can argue my piece with W, but she isn't in 'listening' mode, I don't think I'll have any luck. I don't know about your H, but my W delivers her sermons when she's leaving, trying to sting me and leave me with a bad feeling. I now just let it ride over me. It's the best way.
I'm sure you provide a lovely environment for your little boy!
Weekend just gone was the first time H shared his patenting wisdom with me, I think prior to that he felt that him leaving has no impact on anyone, and that pursuing his happiness is all "fine and dandy". S10 being unhappy at school (for the first time in months) must have been a wake up call, so he is now coming up with plans to visit counsellors (for the kids) and telling me off about everything he is unhappy with.
When he told me I must have looked at him like he grew a second head or something because I actually thought he must be joking! Anyway, like you, I'm trying to not pay too much attention to it, and instead recognise the good things he still does.
Hi Esame
That's the way it has to be. My W told me that he'd be 'better off without me' before we sold the house. At the same time she was threatening to move 230 miles away and said that 'the kids would get over it' and my S 'he doesn't know what's going on'.
You have to bite your lip and drink a STFU smoothie. Giving you parenting advice is a way of controlling you. Normally, my W will deliver her advice when she leaves, and then forgets all about it the next time she comes.
Quick kite flying exercise that probably means nothing, but my W has gone and got our old cat back! Yes, after 11 months, she has gone and rescued our old cat back from our old house! Maybe she wants to reconnect with the cat! W didn't tell me, but my SD did last night. Bizarre.
Quick update from me. I kinda treat this place like my blog right now - hope nobody minds!
Most people on here don't meet each other, but I'm glad to say that me and fellow forum member 'NDY' had a meet up and drinking session on Friday. It was good to catch up and discuss things face to face. Obviously there are things we can say off forum that I certainly wouldn't put on here. Needless to say, beer was involved!
W brought the kids over today. I've now got a healthy beard, which I know she finds really attractive, but she couldn't look at me, not once. I know she saw the beard when I was walking up from the station, but she bowed her head when she was talking to me, and even now, picking them up, she just couldn't establish eye contact with me. W was also unnaturally quiet, so much so, that she nipped in to the toilet whilst I was getting the kids ready to go, and then just left without saying anything to me. She couldn't even look at me when the kids were waving furiously from the car park.
Whilst I understand the guilt part, I don't understand why that communicates in to not being able to look.
Anyway, off to bath for a good soak. It's getting nippy here, so I've finally had to succumb to putting the central heating on. Not bad for up here, nearly then end of October is quite a feat!
Me and NDY were discussing the signs of MLC. We're both convinced that neither of our W's is showing the signs that others see. For me, I don't see any form of regret, frustration, despair or depression. All I see, and have seen is anger, although there was some depression at the start.
Instead, my W keeps telling my D that we can 'never live in the same house' (my D hid in my flat and did a drawing to give to W about wishing we all lived together and then hid it in her going home bag, so she could 'give it to Mummy') and has booked a holiday for herself and the kids next year.
Even now, when she picked up the kids, who were telling me how much they love me and miss me, she just skirts over the issue and walks away. In fact, she bundled them in the car and drove away at speed so they couldn't wave to me (it's dark here, so they normally stand beside the car park lights to wave).
Coupled with last weeks 'Daddy doesn't care about us anymore' line (I guess you know that's the farthest point away from the truth!), I'm just hoping that this is button pushing, rather than her deepest feelings.
I know a lot of this is guilt on her part, but I don't know how much more of this constant barrage on my senses I can take. I'm wrestling with cutting my losses, even though I don't want to. I have had a couple of days of anxiety dreams again (why do these bloody things pop up every few months!) and my sleep is erratic. I keep telling myself that I have done all the work to correct the list of things she said about me when she left (some is vanity for her, but I guess we all have flaws we don't notice)and I can't do anything else.
Just can't get rid of the pain in my heart. I have, as far as I can see 'let her go' and she's doing her own thing. I don't interfere in her life, call, visit or anything. I can see things that will crop up for her, financially, in the coming few months which I don't think she's thought about, but I'm just going to let her handle it. I don't see any warmth or feelings, it's hell.
Huddy, you know what I'm going to say don't you...
Instead, my W keeps telling my D that we can 'never live in the same house' (my D hid in my flat and did a drawing to give to W about wishing we all lived together and then hid it in her going home bag, so she could 'give it to Mummy') and has booked a holiday for herself and the kids next year.
Even now, when she picked up the kids, who were telling me how much they love me and miss me, she justskirts over the issue and walks away. In fact, she bundled them in the car and drove away at speed so they couldn't wave to me (it's dark here, so they normally stand beside the car park lights to wave).
Coupled with last weeks 'Daddy doesn't care about us anymore' line (I guess you know that's the farthest point away from the truth!), I'm just hoping that this is button pushing, rather than her deepest feelings.
I know a lot of this is guilt on her part, but I don't know how much more of this constant barrage on my senses I can take. I'm wrestling with cutting my losses, even though I don't want to. I have had a couple of days of anxiety dreams again (why do these bloody things pop up every few months!) and my sleep is erratic. I keep telling myself that I have done all the work to correct the list of things she said about me when she left (some is vanity for her, but I guess we all have flaws we don't notice)and I can't do anything else.
Just can't get rid of the pain in my heart. I have, as far as I can see 'let her go' and she's doing her own thing. I don't interfere in her life, call, visit or anything. I can see things that will crop up for her, financially, in the coming few months which I don't think she's thought about, but I'm just going to let her handle it. I don't see any warmth or feelings, it's hell.
Huddy, do you think you have let her go, reading your post above. Are you lovingly respecting her wish not to be together and getting on with your own life without her? Are you letting her behaviour dictate your moods.
Truly, I think you are in a cheeseless tunnel here with all the thinking of.....I've done all of this....why doesn't she do all of that - it hurts.
Of course it hurts, and you only get to choose the first part, not the second. And the stuff you do, needs to be for you alone.
I just don't think you've got it yet....truly...
hey Huddy,
Apologies, have missed A LOT!!!!! Just skimmed the intro and last few posts. Surprised you are here. She must've been one hell of a woman.
I cant advise you at all sorry mate. Only wish you all the best.
You know (probably) only 1 in a thousand people here end up R their M. Overall (probably) 99% of BD scenarios end up in D.
One reason is that 99.9% of BD recipients dont even get here. They simply go with well meaning advice to move on, blah, blah, blah. And thats what they eventually do. Do they grow as much as DB "forces"? No. But there must be some growth anyway right. ( actually I'm just reminded of a sitch where he is on M #3 and no growth at all - so not always. )
My life is pretty dismal so I shouldn't really preach, but MLC or not, occupation by alien zombies or not, she is not the same person you are waiting for to come back. If she does, and you are free, open to it, then great.
Otherwise chalk it up as great while it lasted, right at the time, whatever. It [censored] that we even have to force this, but we can and we do. Don't let Huddy go to waste. Make Huddy your first priority. I know you will say that you are, but you are still contemplating and posting what your W, ex, is doing etc. which suggests that you are actually not. I'm not free of this my self so I am not criticising demeaningly.
There are (very broadly speaking) two futures. 1 - where your W comes to the party. 2 She doesn't. The odds are on 2 my friend. Heavily. Very heavily. Sure - you can do what you can to increase those odds in your favour - but at what cost?!?!? Rokmantically I love the notion of soul mates and one true love, but realistically I think that is BS. And that is not a negative thing. I honestly believe that the vast majority of people in the world are good. Its no surprise at all then that there are more than one out their for us AND ..... AND ..... in itself this is crap. So what are we doing - "we will be happy when...." This is BS. Be happy now. How is another question.
In my sitch, the reality is that she doesn't make sense, she probably never did, and their is a definite probability that she never will. Even if one day she "sees the light", the water under the bridge excludes any R. IF, if one day she "sees the light", then the W i thought I M'd would be too ashamed to R. (In my case that wont happen because of her mental condition (another years worth of [censored] that Ive had).
The future options above, - if this is going to happen, ever, it will be NEW, after the old R is buried. So you have no choice really - 1. it will never happen, and 2 - it wont happen while you are waiting by the phone.
Dude, I know how hard it is with kids in the middle, but take a break. From DB even. Still thinking of you.
Pyrite
Everyone that comes here have the odds stacked against them. Otherwise we would not need to be here. But being here improves those odds. We stop doing what pushes them away and do what could attract them back. Plus we have a support and advice network to get us through the harder moments.
Being here helps, but it is our actions that make the biggest difference. Some people do everything right and fail to save their M. Right now I think the best thing you could do is to let go completely. That does not mean shut yourself off from reconciling but living as if it won't happen.
Since we have been here, every single turnaround had that detail. Look at poohbear's thread for another example
I would like the vets opinion on the stats above.
I know a M saving program where the guy states that if you continue to do the right things that eventually it is inevitable that you get t9 reconcile.MMaybe he is right but I doubt most people keep standing the years it may require. It is up to you if you wait, but how you wait is most important.Embrace life. Live.
Some people do everything right and fail to save their M.
Roist, there is another on the end of this rope we can choose to hold and sometimes (like mine) they have thrown it away, burnt it, and denied there ever was a rope. People talk about a post BD script, and I absolutely agree that the BD perpetrators routinely invoke this script like defence. Really it is nothing more than a typical defence and not so remarkable at all. As time goes on this becomes ingrained, MLC or not. In my case ex is as happy as a pig in [censored]. There were no consequences to D, she's living with A partner, and I get to pay her share of rent and bills.
IDK what the stats might be, but I do know that at best 1 partner can only ever have 50% at most say in the direction a R is going to take. So even even if "we" are 100% committed forever - the balance will never be tipped unless THEY come to the party. Given that there is likely so much animosity post BD, and the fact that there was a BD in the first place suggests that this is very unlikely.
I deeply value the support and advice I have received on the DB forums, and I truly believe that this "experience" is an opportunity (and even possibly a great an unparalleled opportunity) for personal growth, but one reason I am not here much anymore is that I can not reconcile that with giving people hope that this is a situation they can change. As you even suggested - it is the hope that you can change this M-BD-D situation that locks you in and prevents you from moving forward. At best (not me), "Be open to R, not waiting for it" - but there is a very fine line here and most people WILL fool themselves that they are indeed not waiting just so they can hold onto that hope.
It's just like that - "i'll be happy when .....__________". That's crap. Like the cheesy cliche - Happiness is not a destination!
-Py
Py,
You envoke many good points and surely valid ones. Without judgement I hear bitterness in your posts. I am sorry your W treated you that way and she appears to have a better deal than you.OOnly time will tell which of you fares out the best. I wish you luck.
Hi Py
Good to see you! Sorry to see that your W has taken you to the cleaners in addition to everything else. Hope your kids are OK and that you're OK in OZ.
Yes, she is my one, so she is special. Yep, I'm still here, but I think I will be taking a break. I don't think my commenting is helping anybody and may be detrimental to newbies seeking a sense of hope.
I'll still be reading some threads and I keep in contact with NDY (hey, we only live 45 miles apart) but for now, I'm just weighing up my future plans.
I'll still be reading some threads and I keep in contact with NDY (hey, we only live 45 miles apart) but for now, I'm just weighing up my future plans.
As the two year marker looms this doesn't surprise me. It's pretty amazing how accurate all the info the vets have.
You know how to get hold of me mate.
Py, sorry things are so cruddy for you man. You sound, well bitter. Please don't take that the wrong way. It's just how I read it. If we are all honest with ourselves there is still a bit of letting go to happen.
Peace
hi guys,
Kids are great. Eldest (nearly 6) is debating with W to spend more time here. Over a year I have them 40% of the time. During school term it is only 5 nights/fortnight. 7 nights in one hit without the kids feels like forever - even for a grown up. Selfishly, the arrangement works out really well for me in terms of managing work etc. The time on my own is pretty [censored] though..
Huddy - being "detrimental to newbies" is exactly what I am talking about, why (one reason) that I avoid posting. The other is that it has at least for me been therapeutic to get away from.
Which is absolutely why I sound bitter and To be honest - I am. Thanks for pointing it out friends
I was going to explain/explore further here, but I think I might start a thread elsewhere. I'll post links when/if I do. As always at least writing this stuff down is good for me even if not helpful to anyone else.
-Py
Please stop worrying about what newbies think. Come here and get out whatever you need to get out. Worst case scenario they get a reality check. Best case scenario it helps you and some others.
Py,iI remember you posting long ago and you had good words to offer others. I am sure you could help others again, but maybe concentrate on you for now. Why not start another thread? Take time away from here if you need to. It will be here later.
Huddy. Best of luck formulating you next steps. Take the time you need.
Best wishes
I have to be careful how I take some of the information from my youngest D. She will soon be 7, but she is very wise and doesn't miss a lot.
Firstly, we were talking about Christmas. D said that Mummy has said that that she's taking them to her parents for Christmas. That pushed my buttons immediately and I told my D that wasn'tgoing to happen. She may have been mixed up, so I'm going to leave that one for now. My W always hated us having Christmas with them, so that will be some shock if she does.
Secondly, D told me that Mummy had bought them presents for after school on Friday. Nothing wrong with that, but D told me they were because Mummy was sorry that she shouted st us so badly on Thursday night and that Mummy wasn't getting any sleep and that she was really tired. D told me that both of them couldn't get to sleep on Thursday night (that's the kids) and Mummy had spent the night on the setee instead of her bed. I made sure that my W hadn't been physical towards them, and decided that I will say nothing.
I had noticed that W was really 'red eyed' on Tuesday and looked liked she'd been crying. Depression phase? Don't know, but I will need to keep an eye on the kids right now to make sure that W doesn't do anything stupid.
Huddy pls don't worry affecting others aversely with your posts. People will take what they need and leave the rest. You also need to post to get it out for yourself. I wish you peace in the midst of all this turmoil. {{{ hugs }}}
Been away from the board for a couple of weeks, but have been keeping in touch with my bud NDY!
Been concentrating on the kids and myself these past two weeks. First off, a couple of weeks ago, me and the kids went to the Museum. They loved in and we sent a 'whats app' to W with fun pictures. She replied instantly as to where we were and said she loved the photos. Again, she picked the kids up later that day and looked tired and drawn.
The next weekend was me time and I was off to the Lake District. Funny, where ever I've lived, I've never been more than two hours away, but never been. Had a great time just travelling around. It was bitter cold and the mountain tops already had a good covering of snow.
This week, the kids came over for tea on Tuesday. I hadn't seen or spoke to W for a week and she was in a foul mood. My SD came too and my D said 'great, the whole family is together'. I was met off the train and everyone walked to my flat. I thought W would just leave, but she came in to the flat. My internet is still in her name (when we left out house, it was easier to host it at my flat, otherwise there would have been fees to pay) and the bill had come out of her bank. Normally this isn't a problem as I just give her the money as soon as I see her. However, I got a spew attack of epic proportions. I kind of snapped and just told her to 'have a day off'. I know I should have validated, but I was trying to juggle putting the heating on, getting the kids settled and trying to take my coat off and I was just under attack. In the end, I just started talking to SD and ignored W's spew. SD was unimpressed with W and was making angry faces at her when they left. Two and a half hours later and it was like another person had come to pick them back up.
Today we've been to the huge Christmas fayre in Edinburgh. The kids loved it, I'm skint and I sent some more 'what's app' stuff to W. Job/Jack suggested this would be good earlier this year. Again, she responded instantly and asked if the kids were wrapped up warm (they were - it's freezing here).
So, all is as OK as it cold be. We're fast approaching a year of actual separation (the first eight months were in house) and I don't see any reconnection with me. I am being all I can be, but it would be churlish to think that I'm not thinking 'why?'. Maybe she just really doesn't find me 'physically attractive anymore' (her opening gambit on wanting to bail on our M) and I should just call quits and move off. Without blowing my trumpet, I'm a good Dad and can look after myself; I'm litter trained (!) and can even run myself a bath! I don't to wake up in a years' time and start feeling I'm too old to look for another companion.
Anyway, that's me for now - thanks for reading.
glad to hear you are still doing well, chin up
my sitch hasn't moved on in any meaningful way - W still seems to be avoiding and keen to escape - you are in good company here
Hi Huddy, I'm glad to hear you and the kids have been doing some nice things - good for you.
Can any of us really say we are being all that we can be? Aren't we all works in progress? What are your goals for yourself in coming months (independent of your marriage and W?)
In your sitch Huddy, I would love to see your broaden your definition of success beyond reconciling with your W to surviving and then thriving yourself (ie: genuinely living a meaningful and happy life, regardless of your marital situation...)
it's not easy to get there - but it is possible....and it involves truly letting go of her and the M and focusing on you...externally and internally..
Hope you enjoy the rest of the weekend Huddy :)X
Detach
Detach
And...
Detach.
Walk your own path dude. She knows where to find you if she wants. That is if
You're still waiting.
You know what I mean.
Peace
Huddy
You could have the body of Arnold Shwartzeneggar,the brain of Heinstein, the humour of Billy Connolly and the charm of Sean Conneryall wrapped up in her favourite package and still she could be the same with you.
She has certain filters on at the moment that ensure you are not appealing to her. This may be specific to you but it is all about HER. So regardless of how you package yourself, she cannot see past it HER filters.
So yes be the best that you can be but not expecting it to; influence her positively. Maybe those filters will fade in time and she will really see YOU but who knows how long that could take IF it ever happens.
You have been here a good while now. Your situation is not likely to change in the immediate future.So why not make the rest of this year all about you and the kids. I know with the festive season approaching that may be difficult but rise to the challenge.Then reassess in the new year.
Best wishes
My W has told me, as she picked up the kids, that is she planning on taking the kids away to her parents at Christmas. I have told her that I don't want that, but I think she'll do it anyway.
Earlier on she sent a text message with an 'x' on it (she sometimes does that before she wants something) and I didn't react. She was also very pleasant dropping the kids off.
Personally, I think that is probably the coldest thing she has ever done to me, as she knows how much I love Christmas and being with the kids.
I think I have finally reached the end of my tether. My thought process now is that I want the remnants of her stuff out of my flat in the next seven days, and I'm done. She shows no sign of making any kind of return and I'm not going to be miserable anymore. I love her, but the constant hurt shows no sign of slowing up and I don't know if I want to carry on for the next however long, when somebody else might actually appreciate me and what I have to offer.
Hi buddy, I too have reached the end of my tether. All her things are currently boxed up and ready for when I let her know in the new year.
Fresh start and all that. Stay strong.
Huddy,
Are you lashing out about her coming to get her belongings because she wants to take the kids to her parents at Christmas? If so, may I make a suggestion? Why not wait until after the holidays and then advise her to come get the rest of her stuff? If you do this now, it looks like you are retaliating because of what she wants to do. Don't play her game on this...wait until after Christmas and then advise her that she has until a certain time to pick her stuff up or you'll be packing it up and either placing it in a storage facility for her to pay the monthly rate or donating the stuff to charity.
Don't give her negative attention right now. Try to say calm about all of this. I know you are angry and I understand how you feel, but don't let this woman see you sweat!
Huddy, I'm sorry to hear this. I agree with Job and would separate the 'belongings' issue with the Christmas issue. It is hard, but separation does also bring the aspect of dividing Xmas time in some way. We always found the best way was for one spouse to spend time with SS in the early part of the hols and the other in the later part.
We were always close enough to actually meet up on Xmas day if needed. Though some years, HXW1 chose to spend Xmas alone and SS was with us from Xmas Eve. If she wants to take them away for some of the time, perhaps you could agree to swap over sometime around Xmas, so that you can also enjoy the festivities with them?
To me, it would seem unreasonable for her to want to take them for the whole two weeks, but if she wants to visit her folks with them during the holidays, that doesn't seem unreasonable? Though I wouldn't expect that visit to span the whole Xmas period - ie: 23rd to 30th for example?
Do take some time and make sure you respond, rather than react to her unwelcome news.
Hi Job/srt
Yes, I'm livid. I mean, just how much hurt can be dished out and can I take? By tradition, I take nearly two weeks holiday at Christmas. My W knows how much I enjoy it, and she knows how much I just love chilling with the kids and I love the atmosphere. My Dad was an aggressive drunk at New Year (the lowest was when he tried to headbutt me in 1986 - yeah I was 14 and he was 51)so, in contrast, I hate that part of the holiday and my W has said I can have the kids then.
You're probably right that I should wait until she returns, but I don't understand why she wants to go there. She hates Christmas with them and when we invited them over once, she couldn't wait to get them out of the house. I don't know if this a way of getting out of the way and stopping her feeling guilt (you know, if she isn't here, she can't feel the guilt).
Sotto
Sorry, missed your reply as I was typing! Yep, she wants to take them away from 23rd to 30th - a whole week. It's even my weekend that she's taking them on. No consideration. I guess somebody, somewhere must think I've done something wrong in my life and I'm being paid out big style. Only problem is, I can't think what.
Huddy,
There is no way to tell why she wants to go except that in MLC they do the opposite of what they did or felt pre-crisis. It could be that she wants to take the kids there to show her parents that she's a good mother and everything is okay or it could be that she wants to revisit her youth through the eyes of her children...but whatever the reason...she's the only one that may be able to shed some light on it.
Is there any way to compromise? Is she planning to be there the entire holiday? Is there any way that one of you can have the children a few days before Christmas Day or right after that day? This is one of the areas where
At some point, the two of you will need to set up a schedule so that you both know when you are having the children on certain holidays. One year, you have them on Christmas and the next year, she does.
I'm very sorry that things aren't turning out the way that you had hoped...but you still have a few week until Christmas and anything can happen between now and then.
No worries Huddy. I think it's best to focus on negotiating what works for you and compromise on a way forward here. For example - I understand you want to take them away, but I want to be able to spend some time with them around Xmas. Why doesn't one of us have time with them the early or later part of the hols and meet up to swap on Xmas eve or Boxing Day - or whatever works best...?
Try and let go of....why does she want to go down there....that's up to her. And also, you may need to bend on your own dislike of New Year - and you and the kids could have some nice new traditions if that is the time you spend with them...
I agree with Sotto, try to negotiate a different arrangement, but also maybe you can take the opportunity of your new life to build on new traditions for you and the kids.
Their is no reasoning with her. She is as stubborn as a mule. Have only managed four hours sleep and everybody is getting it in the neck as I've arrived at work. Fed up to the back teeth of everybody saying how much they're looking forward to Christmas and how I need to get in to the party spirit. If only they knew.
Anyway, I'm done. I couldn't care less why she wants to drive on a 460 mile round trip to sit with people, just two years ago, she couldn't wish to spend less time with. I care about my children and they should be around their parents at Christmas. I have done all the DB tactics in the book, but I think this one will have to be chalked up as a 'no' and won't enter the fantasy land of reunited couples.
In your first post I zoned in on you being done.I think that is best for you now. Just decide what that will look like. Don't let it be an angry bitter place. I don't think you are ready to have a healthy R with anyone else just yet, but yes you deserve better treatment. That day will come.
Don't worry about the reasons W is wanting to go. Maybe she has no other options. Regardless of the reason, I doubt it is to punish you. It is inconsiderate all the same. I can understand that it being far away she wants to make the most of it. Again selfish.
Did ye ever formalise a schedule for kids. If not that is a priority now. Maybe even if ye have to sit down with a lawyer or other authority figure to negotiate THIS Christmas. The vets can say if that is too hard a reaction but you have your rights too.
If you do not manage to negotiate a partition equitable this year, be clear that next year it will be the opposite I.e. 100% with you.
I am sorry you have bad associations and memories of new years.I do agree with the others that maybe you could start anew and create other memories,traditions etc .
I understand your hurt and anger. Hopefully they can serve you to drive your construction of a better life without W. 2017 will be your year and you will make it better.
Best wishes
Huddy I agree with you, I don't think there is any reasoning with any MLCer. You do however need to put a plan in place for holidays and celebrations. What does she want? To take turns so that the kids will spend one year with you and one with her? To split they time somehow? Could you get a mediator or is it a short notice? At the very least maybe email her so that you can have some evidence about agreements or negotiations?
Best of luck!
Huddy, I'm sorry you didn't get the best sleep ((((hugs)))))
I would say for today - don't focus on the longer term. You don't have to make any decisions about the longer term and the only early thing to think about is Christmas.
If you don't feel what she suggests is fair, I would go back to her on that basis and seek to renegotiate - accepting that you both may need to compromise here.
Don't worry about why she wants to make that trip. She does and that's up to her. What's up to you is how the two of you agree to split time with the kids this Christmas..
So, try not to widen this and just stick to the short term issue at hand - Xmas plans...all the other stuff - are you done - her stuff - you can think about in the new year.
Hope your day improves my friend and rather than take it out on colleagues, might you share what has happened with someone you trust? I'm sure people would want to support if they know what is happening.
Xx
You've been given some great advice...I know that you've stated that your wife is stubborn and won't budge on the Christmas issue, but it needs to be resolved. Is there any way that you can meet up w/her for coffee or something and talk to her about it? Point out that you are off for several weeks and would like to spend at least a portion of the holiday w/your children. Speak to her in a calm and even voice and look her in the eye when you do so. If you get emotional, then that's it...she'll pull away and tune you out completely.
If you don't have a visitation schedule in place, now is the time to have one legally drawn up. Focus on the here and now and let the future holidays unfold once a schedule is set up.
Hi Job
I did speak to her in a normal, polite manner, but as always, I was simply met with a torrent of aggression. I think further communication on the issue is pointless. I don't feel emotion at all, but just incredibly fed up at DB'ing her and it's as if she has turned in to a cold, emotionless robot.
I will try some form of persuasion on Friday wen she drops the kids off. I had hoped no to get to a legal recourse position, as I was DB'ing, but I have taken advice, and it's 50/50 by default here.
Hi huddy,
What I'm going to tell you might not pleased you but i'd like to chip in. Every other year with H we would go back to see my parents as I'm not from the UK. When my mother in law passed away I didn't see my parents for 4 Xmas in a row (even if I don't get on particularly well with my mother, I missed her and I also felt that my kids should see their grandparents).
After that Xmas I didn't go for another 3 years in a row ( the last one was last year because I hoped i'd be back with H), so this year I'm taking the kids away for a week. It might sound harsh but I need to regroup my strength, and I can do it in a safe environment (ie with my family). I'm going for a week but it's really for 5 days as I'm losing two days travelling.
H has said that he would have the kids next year, even though it hurts me it's fair that he has them. Unfortunately now you have to think about having separate arrangements for Xmas and holidays. I'm planning to go away on holidays next year for Xmas.
Maybe your wife needs some time away, a change of scenery to think things through.
Huddy - Just my 2 cents here as well. My W "despised" her sister - in part because of her sister's serial infidelities as well as a pretty narcissistic personality. When she started turning into an alien suddenly they became the best of friends which then allowed SIL to (I believe) agressively push W to leave. I know there were multiple texts every day plus multi-hour phone calls - all this with a woman that she would have barely given the time of day to the year before.
So - don't be surprised when people that they used to not get along with before suddenly are gathered to their bosom. This may not even have nothing to do with the Christmas.
Huddy, can you take advantage of the ridiculous length of the Christmas season to create some traditions wih your kids that aren't tied to Christmas Eve or Christmas Day?
You can either take the modern, commercial approach (and celebrate earlier in December) or take the traditional, religious approach and celebrate all the way until Epiphany (Jan 6). One of my friends has her annual holiday party on Epiphany.
Can you adjust the days you take off so that you use them when your kids are wih you?
Any news mate?
Best wishes
Hi Roist
Yes, some news.
My W came to me last week and told me she was having further cosmetic surgery. Told me she was having her scar repaired, but due to her quoting the recovery time, I'd say that she's having her boobs done. She told me she wanted me to take her, have a week off to look after the kids, but I could have the car! As the kids were grappling with me, I said that February was a long way off, but I'd obviously have the kids. She took that as me saying I'd take her.
She then invited me to my D's birthday party she'd organised, on my weekend, and said she really wanted me to come. Obviously, I'm not going to say no to my D's birthday, so I agreed to that.
I met my bud, and former forum member, NDY in Glasgow for a chat. Over a few beers, he reminded me that she was probably 'cake eating' and that she was 'tugging the rope' to see if I was still attached. Of course, he talked a lot of sense, and this came to the fore last weekend. W dropped off the kids on Friday and my D was ill. So ill that she was hallucinating and slept almost the entire weekend.
On the Saturday evening, she texted me to ask about D, but asked me to do something for her (a favour) as she put it, and it really struck home that she was cake eating. She picked the kids up on Sunday morning to take them to a party and her first words to me were about the favour. I was angry and said I wasn't going to do it.
I decided that this couldn't continue. I assembled the gifts for her from the kids (they picked them, I bought and wrapped them) and tonight I let her know how much taking the kids away from me at Christmas would hurt me. I got carried away and said that it hurt me more than knowing she had been internet dating. At this point, she started spewing, asking how I knew (she'd left the tab open on S's laptop) and said 'well, it's time you moved on, because I have'. I told it I was done. She then went in to another rage (you've held all this anger back from the summer and told me now - no, it's called DB'ing, but you don't know it) and as I was kissing and saying goodbye to the kids she was still spewing as she went down the stairs.
So, I've either dropped the rope and been brave, or I've been a complete and utter tool and just lost the woman that I love, forever. But really, just how much hurt can a person take?
Anyways, feeling a bit raw right now (I wasn't at all emotional - I was really nervous before she came) and I did say to her that one day she'll wake up and realise what she's lost and she just repeated it back to me parrot fashion.
As I don't post much these days, please be gentle. Criticism or advice welcome, but please be gentle.
Wow, fast moving stuff this dropping the rope.
She's just sent me a text - I'll type it verbatim:
'Just to say I'm absoloutely furious with you for snooping on the internet, whether the page was open or not, and it wasn't, doesn't give you the right to look. It's none of your business. What part of being separated do you not get. It's an invasion of privacy.'
Don't think I'll reply.
Huddy
She is being pretty selfish at the moment ... all part of this I am afraid. She has been caught and rather than own it she is blame shifting here, its your fault you snooped .... not owning that she was internet dating. Mine did the same when confronted and also told me that since we were separated it doesnt count.
I would do as you are .. .ignore and do not reply ... put on your spew jacket because she will send an ample amount your way to try and regain the power position.
Huddy,
She left the tab open most likely to see if you would look. They do things in a passive aggressive manner. So, she's in a snit...leave her to it. She'll either get over it or it will affect her holiday. Either way, don't take her bait and don't reply to that text.
Keep focusing on you.
how kind of her to invite you to your own daughter's party, which she so very thoughtfully arranged to coincide with YOUR time. What if you'd had your own plans? Selfish, single-minded, and completely self-absorbed. Her, not you.
I do hope she's not sticking you with the bill for the new "equipment."
Deleted what I was gonna say about that in the interests of kindness and keeping it G rated. Sorry Huddy she's pushing MY buttons, all the way across the pond!
I'm so glad you met up with your bud. Good advice there. You have NOT been an utter tool. I daresay the woman you love is in there somewhere but really, how much can one take, indeed?
Here's the thing about women my friend: if they can walk all over you, they won't respect you. And if they can't respect you they don't usually want to be in a relationship with you. So. Congratulations on putting a line in the sand while keeping your dignity. She spewed because you put her in her place and while doing so let her know you aren't conveniently where she left you.
Parrot fashion? what is she? twelve? Classic MLC ... I think you've dropped the rope and been brave. (in the interest of full disclosure: my divorce is final tomorrow, lol ... hope that made you laugh) xoxoxo
Seriously, I vote for brave. She can't wear your you know what as earrings and she's not happy about it, but she will respect it, even if she won't admit it.
xoxoxoxo {{{{{hugs}}}}
Hi Caliguy, Job, Bttrfly
Thanks for being gentle! Thanks for not thinking I'm a tool! Yeap - she's been caught and doesn't like it. My only worry is that she will be driving 230 miles on Friday and I hope she doesn't take it out on the kids.
I won't be replying to any texts unless it's about the kids. Unless anyone gets the wrong idea, I didn't shout or scream; I was matter of fact and courteous. I even gave her her Christmas presents form the kids as she was spewing!
You took your b@lls back out of her handbag. Good for you. You're not responsible for her. If she takes it out on the kids during her wee "road trip"
then that just proves her weakness. Remember you're the sane parent here and that's all you can be. You can't protect the kids from her madness (although we all want too).
This is mainly based on a private conversation with NDY, but I think it's important to share a viewpoint that I have reached.
Firstly, you really don't start DB'ing until you have dropped the rope. You take a long time to get to that point and then you draw a line. My 'line' was taking the kids away. It is, without doubt, the most selfish thing to do to the LBS - taking the children that you brought in to the world, made with love and kindness, away.
As soon as I spelt this out, you could see her face contort in to a weird, almost mask like shape. Was it a realisation that she'd lost control? Don't know, but I feel better for letting her know that I am not at her beck and call.
I now realise, that despite my best efforts, I don't think I was truly DB'ing. I was doing things, hoping all the time that W would see a change in me and turn back. Well, I think I could have done anything, and it still would have had no effect. It's about her; her problems, her selfinshness, I'm just the butt of the problem.
I think that my W probably had some kind of liaison before BD. There were various personal things that only I could do for W (or she said I could do), which a month or so before BD, she said other men had done for her. I also found a pregnancy testing kit. W denied that she had just bought it and said it was an old one, but when I went to look again, it had gone. Again, I think W probably met somebody on a night out in February 2015 (she didn't return home until 0330, claiming she'd been to McDonald's, but something didn't feel right as she wouldn't let me touch her) and I think she has fallen in love with the idea of being chased. However, I also think she likes the idea of safe dependable Huddy being in the background to do everything for her.
So now, safe dependable Huddy has decided to 'let go' and see where it takes us. Right now, I'm just keeping low. I need to recover some battery life and don't want to jump in to anything right now. I'll certainly look at taking up further activities in the New Year, but this morning I've developed a chest infection!
So, what do I expect from W now. I'm expecting her to go to her parents and have her thought reaffirmed by her sister etc. and then at some stage to start issuing spew, or trying to goad me back on to the rope. I'll have to guard against that, although I don't know what shape that will take. I'm certainly not expecting her to suddenly 'wake up' and run home - she's too far in at the moment.
So, what I discussed with NDY was bang right - until that rope has gone, you don't properly DB.
Mentioning the internet dating may not have been advisable but otherwiseit was not a mistake and possibly a necessity to rbreak the limbo.This will take time to register fully with her. Right now she doesn't care and is angry. Time will tell if deeper thinking results. But don't worry about that. The fact she heard it unfiltered is more real for her.
Focus on you and your kids. Take your own anger and frustration and channel it into shaping your life, making it the best possible.
Sorry this happened but I look forward to hearing about how you kick start 2017.
Best wishes
Very good post Huddy. I do think we hold on too tight and merely experiment with what we think we should be doing.
Then, when certain boundaries of ours are crossed I think we have our own wake-up moment where we figure out we really do need to focus on ourselves. Something snaps, things are never the same again and that rope is dropped too low to be bothered with again.
Keep going. But be aware of the tricks she will try.
Huddy, drop the rope and live your life to the fullest as if she may not return. Try not to react whatever she says or does for the time being. Sending you positive thoughts today.
New Thread:
In the UK - PT22 - anyone for a glayvar?