I guess I need to move back over here.....
I honestly thought I'd be able to stay away from this place, but here we go again.....
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2647852#Post2647852
Not sure you need this but I will post it for reference only.
Since the board has had many purges.
Take what you need and forget the rest.
Welcome to this board.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htmKeep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...444#Post1942444Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
He is in a deep depression and is having a huge pity party.
Oy Vey!
And why is this your fault?
And why do you think his MLC is OVER?
I want you to know that you aren't alone and there have been others that have returned after reconciling for a while. Reconciling, working on a new marriage, as well as continuing to work on you takes a lot of hard work and sometimes, we all tend to forget that after reconciliation, it's a new marriage and we can't fall back into old ways.
So, what have you been up to since you posted here previously? I did read that you went back to school. I'm very pleased that you did that. What are your goals for the next year? If you don't have any, let's start putting pen to paper and come up w/a few.
Mirepoi, its so nice (sorry wrong word) for me to hear your story.
I have 85% moved on from my ex, but I still have this lingering want that one day I wake up and his MLC is over. The truth is, like you, this forum and therapy and Alanon has changed me too much to every go back to him. I am now am at an advanced state of self awareness and self pride that I do not think I could allow myself to compromise to him.
I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to continue to live with a man through this. I suppose its similar to living with an alcoholic, which would basically be impossible unless you were equally screwed up.
You are not alone in your journey.
Don't forget to go back to the basics. Be grateful for all you have in your life.
Hi Mirepoi,
I've read your latest posts and can't believe how much we have in common.
I, too, thought I had made it through MLC land, but things never seemed right. I was back here after a few years wondering why I was here again so soon.
I agree with Job. It could be that he didn't finish his journey for some reason. Mine apparently didn't and I found myself here again. The "new" marriage was never better, in any way whatsoever.
I've been in the same place as you. Feeling more pity than love, making him move out, considering tossing in the towel (I think I have a post along those lines), wanting to just get him out of my life just so I could have some peace and move on with my life.
I still have thoughts along those lines from time to time ... he's not done with his journey. How much more can I withstand?
The only thing I can say is to listen to what Job and others have said. Take things slowly. Be sure that calling it quits is the best thing for you, not only in your head, but in your heart.
I suppose the question you have to ask is do you have anything more to give? I didn't think I did, but realized I wasn't ready to throw in the towel. But I'm definitely not an expert ... just a fellow traveler.
My heart goes out to you because I so understand where you are. I've been there ... am there ... depending on the day.
{{{hugs}}}
I've had an exceptionally long day at work today and I am exhausted, but I feel good.
Lately I have enjoyed coming home.
For the last 6 months I hated it.
I would walk through the door each day and would have to listen to every single detail of my Husband's day. He never had anything positive to say.He never asked how my day was, he would just complain about whatever the kids did to annoy him.
So now things are different at home.
The kids seem happier, they don't all hide out in their rooms, they actually sit in the living room and spend time together.
That was one of the things that really bothered me, our family time basically disappeared. It didn't matter what was going on, my Husband always found a way to be the center of attention and ruin everything.
As far as MLC goes, I don't know if that's what's wrong or if he is just a selfish and mean person who refuses to grow up.
He acts like a belligerent teenager. He is depressed. He has huge bouts of self pity.He wants a pat on the back every-time he does something and some type of recognition.It got to the point where I stopped asking for help because I would receive a lecture.
Yesterday I asked him to remove his name from our joint accounts at the bank, which he agreed to do. I signed the paperwork, it is done.He has no accountability when it comes to finances and is reckless and irresponsible.It's sad that after 30 years this is what has to happen.
I didn't mention that he has been unemployed for the past 18 months. But his response to this was that as he has supported the family for the past 30 years it is now my turn.He picks up some freelance jobs here and there, but not enough to support the family. And now that I removed his name from our accounts, I doubt very much that he will contribute in any way.
I need to respond to some of the posts I received, but first I have to get dinner started for the kids.
Thanks for listening
XXX
Job,
I have a full time job that I really enjoy which is a plus.
I had planned to continue my education but that has to be on hold for a bit mainly due to finances and time restraints.
I think there may be something online which I will eventually look into.
I was taking 18 units a semester (yep, I know that's insane) but I really loved it.It had been over twenty years since I had taken any college classes and for the first time in ages, I felt so alive.I always felt so "less than" because my Husband was so well educated, and so was the OW. Once I started taking classes I realized that I had nothing to prove to anyone but myself.
I have been having some health issues that I am finally taking care of.Between menopause, my asthma and allergies and my thyroid playing havoc with my body it is time to lose some weight and get healthy again.
Too bad I am no longer a victim of the LBS diet
In about four years the youngest will be off to college (when I first posted here he was only 3) so it's really important for me to focus and get things together.
I don't know what other goals I have other than those.
2times2many,
Thank you.
It is hard isn't it?
I honestly don't know at this point what it is that I want to do anymore.
I know I don't want to spend the rest of my life waiting for a "normal" non-MLC relationship. I've already invested over 30 years of my life and he has sucked me dry of my emotions and my strength.
I don't hate him, I pity him. I feel sad for him that he is missing out on having a relationship with his really awesome kids because he is so into himself.
I learned a long time ago that you can't force people to change, and if he has returned to his MLC there is nothing I can do to speed things along.
He made so many promises after he came home. He was gone for 3 years. I believed everything he said. I welcomed him back and didn't put any conditions on him.
And yet here I am again.....
Bklynmom,
Thank you.
I am finally doing things for myself and am enjoying my life.
It would have been nice if my Husband had been a part of it.
I really thought the MLC monster was in the past, but alas, it raised it's ugly head again.
In hindsight, he should have gone into therapy and dealt with the aftermath properly when he first came home.
Shoulda
Woulda
Coulda
Thanks for asking.
I am doing okay, how are you?
Yesterday he came over to visit the kids for a couple of hours and it was uncomfortable and very strained. It almost felt like having a stranger in the house.There was nothing to talk about.
My son was extremely anti social and very upset that his dad was in the house.
The strange part was that he told me how happy he felt being back in the house and how much he missed it.
He also said that he knew that he wasn't ready to be at home with us.
He seems to be quite content to be at his mother's house, running her errands for her and having lunch dates.
She loves having him back at home as she is lonely and wants the company.
In some ways it angers me that she has absolutely no concern for the well being of the children. Not once has she contacted any of them. She knows I am doing everything on my own and has turned a blind eye to her son's part in all of this.
On the other hand, I guess it's better that she isn't contacting me and interfering.
Today is my day off and I am trying to relax and take care of some laundry and some reading.
This afternoon I have my first appointment with a personal trainer, oh boy.
Mommy loves having her son there because he's doing everything for her from running errands to being there as a companion, i.e., keeping her company. She's certainly not worried about anyone but herself and her needs. Sounds a lot like a NPD personality.
As for your h, he's got a lot of issues to resolve. I can just imagine just how uncomfortable and strained it was. You really don't have a whole lot to talk about right now because both of you are living separate lives. Your son isn't happy w/his father and what has transpired over the years. It's unfortunate that your son feels the way he does and your h will have to figure out how to repair that bridge in the near future. It may be that it can't be repaired but let's hope it can to some extent.
I think you will enjoy working w/a personal trainer. You'll be sore for a while, but it will be worth the hard work.
Bottom line...take care of yourself and I know you are there for your children. Enjoy the time you spend w/them because they grow up so fast!
Sort of [censored] when they don't live up to expectations or even minimums.
Recall the old saying here Mire, You cannot change them...at first its a way to protect yourself when you first get here. Later its sort of sad for different reasons.
Not sure what to say here except sorry that you're at this point. Sorry your H isn't living up to his end.
But, I know you'll be fine no matter what happens. You will be golden.
well, there's not too much to say.
Everything is status quo.
Going to the gym helps clear my head and gives me some personal goals.
Sometimes I think too much and allow the monsters to come out and play.
I know there are many people who have read my thread and think I am nuts for making my husband leave especially when they are trying so hard to make theirs come home again.
I remember those days all too well.
I remember being on my knees daily, praying for a miracle that my marriage would be saved.
And I guess for a short time it was.
But marriages take two people who are willing to try.
When only one person is doing all of the work it gets exhausting, and eventually there is no more energy left to try.
The word cherished comes to mind.
I always wanted to feel that.I have friends who seem to have that in their marriages. Maybe I've seen too many Hallmark movies, but I wanted a husband who loved me completely, and I don't think mine can.
He really is a broken man and he never grew up.
I've been giving a lot of thought to the past 30 years and those damned rose colored glasses definitely got their money's worth.
I don't think you are nuts at all. You can only carry the load so long and then it gets too heavy to continue. Marriage does take two to make it work successfully. I also know where you are coming from w/the rose colored glasses! Been there and done that one too.
Be kind to yourself, learn to take some time for yourself and do something that you normally wouldn't do for YOU. YOU owe it to yourself!
Hi Jack
Hope you're doing well
X
Job,
I have a long weekend planned which is good. I like staying busy.
I am allowing my son to get a puppy, so we are busy getting the house prepared for his arrival.It will be good for him to have some responsibility.
Other than that, things are quiet and I am happy without any added drama in my life.
The kids have the whole of next week off from school so I am hoping to get some time off from work so we can do some fun things.
My Husband changed his address to his mother's house, so I guess slowly but surely things are moving forward.
It's Monday, and I have the day off from work
I worked about 60 hours this week and am going to take it easy today.
I received some texts yesterday from my sister in law. It seems like my Husbands brother is about to receive some legal paperwork soon. She is annoyed by the fact that she also is trying to get her husband to move in with his mother, but my husband is already there, and the brothers don't get along very well. My mother in law plays games and the two boys are always vying to get their mother's attention.
I personally think it would be her ultimate wish to have her two boys living at home with her without any horrible daughter in laws interfering.
The new puppy is very cute, and the kids are enjoying him immensely. I forgot how much work was involved in training a new puppy.
Sounds like your MIL is going to have both of her sons back under her roof, i.e., one big happy family reunion. It will be very interesting in that household if they both are back home.
What kind of puppy did you get? I'm sure that all of you will enjoy the little fur baby and yes, it takes a lot of time and patience to train a new puppy. Be sure to put your shoes in the closet as they do love to chew!
He's a pug.
Super cute and very feisty
I love pugs! They are so cute and they don't get very big.
There really hasn't been much to say about this new chapter because it's been quiet and nothing much has changed, until a couple of days ago.
I came home from work to find his car parked in front of my house. I knew he was stopping by to see the kids and the puppy so that wasn't really an issue.
The issue was when he was sitting in my bedroom, on the computer.
I asked him what he was doing and he said that he was working on a freelance job.
He doesn't understand boundaries or a respect for my privacy.
And then came the spew.....
And he left in a rage.
And then came more spew via the phone, which continued through his texts. And history has been rewritten once again.
I'm not angry as much as I am frustrated.
I had hoped that this separation would be quiet and easy and give me time to clear my thoughts.
I can see that I'm in for a bumpy ride and honestly don't think that I want to revisit this journey. I barely made it out alive the last time and I just don't have the strength to do it all over again.
I'm sorry he took it upon himself to go into your bedroom. Now that he's done that, time to put a password on your computer. It's unfortunate that you can't trust him to do the right thing and stay in the other parts of the house, but he'll have to have some boundaries. BTW, I'm not surprised that he spewed because he was caught doing something he knew he shouldn't have been doing. Don't respond to his messages. Just leave him to be by himself and fight that internal battle. Eventually the fire will die down and he'll get back to being the calmer version of his childish self.
If you need to enforce your boundaries...do it. He'll either honor them or he will have to face the consequences of not being allowed to come to your home unless you are there.
Hi Mirepoi. Just wanted to stop by and see how you're doing.
FWIW, I don't think you are nuts at all for making h move out. We put up with as much as we can, but there comes a point where our (and our families) mental and emotional health has to be the first priority.
I have a similar issue with h thinking he can wander around the house at will when he's here. Generally, he's pretty good but will sometimes say, I have to go downstairs and get so-and-so. It's hard not to follow him and keep an eye on what he's actually doing but I don't want to look like I'm a prison warden keeping tabs on his every movement. It's really sad what they do to our trust in them.
The potential of h and his brother both living with MIL is interesting. I can't imagine that will go well. I would think it would be incredibly difficult for 3 people who have lived apart, living life in their own fashion, to mesh into a compatible living arrangement under the same roof.
I came home from work today to find H parked in front of the house sitting in his car. He said hello and acted as if everything was normal. I said hi, and continued to walk into the house. The kids said he had been sitting outside for about an hour.I don't know what to think anymore.
2times,
Oh to be a fly in the wall when the three stooges are all living together again. My MIL is a very manipulative woman who also lies a lot and I can only imagine the chaos that will go on.
Thank you for not thinking I am nuts. I don't want to grin and bare it anymore, I am tired and I am getting too old to ride this crazy train.
Job,
Legally this is his home too, which is why I have tried to play nice and not file for a legal separation. Unfortunately, if the stupidity continues I may have to go forward and just do the paperwork. I can't really afford to hire an attorney. I looked on line to see if I could do it myself but I don't understand all of the legal terminology and I dare not ask my son for help because I don't want him in the middle of this.
As you pointed out, legally it's his home too, however, that doesn't give him the right to use your computer w/o asking, since it is in your bedroom and he currently isn't living there. You have several choices, if the bedroom is your sanctuary, then put a lock on the door, but if you prefer not to do that, then password your computer. Be sure to put all of your private papers, documents, etc., some place safe that he will not get into. Yes, I'm being serious and no, I'm not being dramatic. These guys get curious about us and want to know what we are doing and they do look around.
Have you checked your computer lately to see if he's installed anything on it? He very well may have just been using it for work, but I bet he also was checking things out to see where you've been, etc. Be sure to clear out your cookies after each use. I went down this road many years ago and I'm only trying to warn you of what they can and some of them will do.
You need to think about what boundaries you could put in place about him coming there when you aren't home. BTW, where you expecting him the other day, i.e., he was sitting in the car for a long period of time. Maybe a schedule for visitation, or at least he give you a call to see if it's okay to stop by.
Just my two cents.
Sweetie, you can't afford NOT to have an attorney. You have child support and property to divide (also consider if either of you have pensions or retirement savings). Also if he makes significantly more than you there may be alimony to consider.
Also if your H is not paying the bills right now you can file for an order for temporary support.
You need to at least learn your rights and find out what you can expect.
The problem with me filing is that he has been unemployed for over 18 months. I would have to pay him spousal support!!!
There are no retirement plans or pensions or savings left, he squandered that when he went through his MLC madness several years ago.
The only source of income is mine, and I live paycheck to paycheck right now.I pay all of the bills and take care of the childrens needs.
I will change the password on my computer today and clear out everything. I guess I was fooling myself into believing that he would stay in his corner and not cross the boundaries.
I didn't want this to get ugly.
Checking to see what your "legal" rights are is the smart thing to do right now. You should check around to see if lawyers in your area have a free consultation. Also, check on line to see what the laws are in your area. It pays to know what you are entitled to just in case you opt to divorce him or vice versa.
As for passwording your computer...that's a must since he slipped up and was sitting there using yours when you walked in the door. He may have been doing something very innocent, but when it comes to mlc, red flags tend to pop up for me. Also, you'll need to check to see if he's typed in a command, whereby he can read incoming emails, but he won't be able to respond to them. My xh, who thought he was a clever little imp, slipped up and told him mother what he had done and she contacted me immediately and sure enough, I located the command and deleted it. I would never have thought he would have been that devious to do something like that...but mlc turns them into people you don't know and let's face it, we truly do not know what they are capable of when they are out on the street until they do things.
So, play it smart, do your homework and keep what you learn to yourself. Take care of your computer and make sure that all of your important papers that you do not want your nosey little imp to see are in a safe place. You may even want to get yourself a small safe and lock them up in there...but don't ever think he won't go a search mission to see what you've been up to.
Setting boundaries, visitation schedules, etc., may not get ugly. It all depends upon how you present the issues to him. Stay calm, keep your voice even and look him in the eye when you tell him.
I agree with Job, and certainly think password protect as a minimum. You may also want to check your programs list, just to make sure nothing was installed on that date.
I haven't written lately because there isn't that much to say.
I'm just plodding along, and taking care of myself and the kids.
He's been out of the house now for two months.
I don't miss him.
I like the peace and quiet.
We communicate via text, for me that's easier.
Sometimes I get random text messages about his mother or his spoiled brat nieces.
Apart from all of that, everything else is just fine.