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mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2

Posted By: pbetra

mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/21/15 10:41 AM

Thanks Job,

I appreciate the response & suggestions re resources & thread.

posted by Job - July 21 2015 /last thread,* below
If you are still looking for resources on fear, I am going to suggest that you do an internet search on the subject. I think you will find what you are looking.

BTW, you need to start a new thread. This one is going to lock very soon.

-------------------
Have started looking for resources/fear on net. Found some interesting ones but 'sifting' through.

I was just wondering re feedback here, as I recall coming across responses from forum members re other books. What they thought "good" really "liked" that sort of thing - personal responses.

Was managing my time too.
So many times I have done process x, then happened to mention it to somemone only to hear "oh that! you should have come to me first!!!" laugh Made me me crazy !! laugh

Have a good one job, thanks again, p.

--------------------------------------------------
RE: previous threads (aka 'all over the map!!!')

* last thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...t=11&page=1

crazy - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...743#Post2468743 confused
Posted By: Sotto

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/21/15 10:49 AM

Hi Pbetra

People seem to rate Susan Jeffers on this area - feel the fear and do it anyway. I know Old Dog in Newcomers has mentioned her. He hasn't posted for a few weeks, but I seem to recall he had a fear coach linked to the book too.

I have found Brene Brown to be excellent. She has a couple of Ted talks, which are a good starting point. I have also read her book, Daring Greatly, which I would highly recommend.

Good luck to you! x
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/21/15 12:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Pbetra

... Susan Jeffers on this area - feel the fear and do it anyway. I know Old Dog in Newcomers has mentioned her. He hasn't posted for a few weeks, but I seem to recall he had a fear coach linked to the book too.

I have found Brene Brown to be excellent. She has a couple of Ted talks, which are a good starting point. I have also read her book, Daring Greatly, which I would highly recommend.

Good luck to you! x


Hi Toots,
Thanks for sharing. I came across Brene Brown since my post on TED! You are right, she is amazing!! I am yet to hear her other talks but want to listen to them all.

Didn't know about her book so I will buy that one for sure (& Jeffers). Saw some others (so many!!) but these are great to begin with! Will definitely check on Old Dog as well.

Thanks again Toots, really appreciate smile - have a great day! P.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/22/15 09:14 PM

Hi, journal entry here.

It's beautiful today so I took some boxes outside re: my reference images & copy/text to supplement a creative project.
There I was, minding my own business ... sunshine, green green grass & 'windy wind' smile & WHO do you thinks shows up? shocked

yep h - coming "for some more things". I got hug, stroking/ back (?) wanted "to talk." I was civil (could smell smokes, alcohol ... )

He brought up what has been going on recently re us (not "connecting"). Of course all of the events re this entire experience that took place were 'different.' He was acting out of frustration, so many job applications, no money - frustration. I told him I know that it was very difficult for him & listened. He said he "never pursued anyone - doesnt know why I thought so. He's been trying, not me." (whoa) grin

H was persistent with re-writing the mlc episode (just'another day in the park'). I kept calm. Over the last few months whenever issues came up, I would see the seething rage re expression b/c I was beginning to distance myself. There were times he woudl hear emotion in my voice. He would walk away, leaving me to feel 'the guilt' ... or so he thought (not recently), I was becoming worn down, too worn to feel guilt.

He said he was trying but whenever he reaches out to me, I do not try. On some level he is right. I am more of WAW now, not just LBS ( H also does not see the connection between hostility & lack of motivation /intimacy - he expects intimacy anyway - period. I walked away to avoid escalation, as I did not know where this would lead.

I just need time alone now to breathe - think and move forward. I did note the effort he made though, he did not pursue much after this, as he noted that I was not giving in to whatever agenda he had (conscious or not).

I waited inside for a bit until he left. I have found that he would not 'let me be' since I distanced myself from him - he's not leaving me alone. My wishes are not respected. Anyway, after that, I got a little wine & returned to my mat, like a parisian at a picnic. cool

It was so breezy & sunny. Lovely day, well I certainly feel (!) the creativity re: the wine in spite of the visit! Should be interesting!
laugh laugh laugh p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/25/15 04:13 PM

Just updating, a journal entry as i feel a little 'haze' today & need to 'vent it out'

Before I go on -

my expressive arts piece
my piece turned out to be a very 'ribbony' roller coaster (must have been the wine!) blush Was trying to 'morph' the roller coaster into a more meandering calmer ride on one side of the piece. Am not done yet, as artistic prowess in this area is not my forte. Still learning!
( I sent roughs to collaborator & like FB, they 'like' (btw these regard printed literature, books, newsletters etc)

can't 'shake' active mind
getting things ready for meditation later this weekend (hadn't been to class recently/ spent so much time with child (!), & then instructor got ill) .. My mind is like an active volcano right now. I feel a bit confused so am venting ... I want to release as much as I can (vent here, going to clean after etc, get it OUT of my system, so that I can reap the benefits of the class later on.

h
h said he wanted to talk (I know that he shook things up re above/active mind).
I avoided his msgs at first since C isn't here. But he was persistent & i wondered if something was genuinely wrong!! he stopped by & we talked about the R.

he wants to try again eek For the 1st time though he did not seem to be in attack mode (?) of the sake of 'just attacking' & mouthing off. He was critical but not vengeful. He looked flustered, concerned, anxious. He explained how he felt & why.

He made sense re *two points concerning me. I AGREE re these two. (sorry to not be explicit - you know how i feel re : internet) I thought very much about this, & in future will show him the connection re his actions & my reactions to these, b/c I cannot internalize to get sick eventually - & neither should he! However, it was not the time.

I will have to do the work if I get back on this ride. I don't honestly feel to - maybe it's a 'now thing' - but then again, maybe I need to have 'vision.' Look ahead & not blow this one opp., if indeed it is an opp., & if we could actually be happy ... (?????) I really can't access at this very moment with my current 'volcano mind' just erupting stuff all over the place. (by volcano mind let me be clear I AM NOT IN ANGRY MOOD, I just mean the behaviour of the volcano - stuff inside just haphazardly thrown outside anywhere, anyhow ... 'stuff' on the go! )

conversation
I have not had this type of conversation with h for ages! I can't even remember when ... it has all been only volatile since this experience began. I promised to get back to him (with what I dont know yet) confused . After meditation, movies the weekend - will see ...)

At one point, he still projected his mothers characteristics onto me & that was a red flag. Mentally, 'I threw in the towel' even though I continued to listen. I was fine until up to a point, as it was all such heavy stuff for us both. He asked if I wanted him to leave & i said "yes." I thought it was enough for both of us, & more so since we managed to speak without getting emotional & upset. The rest could come another day. smile

Today after a good nights rest, I am thinking about the part of the conversation that was civil (!), and his issues with me. I reflected about the part that sounded like two adults talking about an R instead of listening to what seemed to be temper tantrums from an adult ( with all sorts of mosaic-piece mis-matched information & attacks).

I still feel more like a WAW as mentioned before & less like the LBS - a role he is beginning to assume. I don't seem to have the inclination to try more, not now anyway. I am enjoying my rest period. Enjoying a sense of peace without him (although I did miss him & was deeply saddened by how everything turned out) The stress re him was robbing me of everyday peace - he did not realize that he was my 'spirit-killer,' which in fact led to other issues. If we can walk this line of reasonable conversation & action, I may try again - (esp. b/c of child/"C" ).

I have to:
  • think of what (???!!) to tell him
  • boundaries
  • timelines

.. if pursued /ie., getting back on the dizzying ride ...

Going to clean & get going with my day & my plans.
Have a wonderful weekend all ! p.
Posted By: Sotto

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/25/15 07:50 PM

Hi Pbetra, I would say just take the time you need. Like most of us here, you have been through a lot.

Perhaps you could initially focus on rebuilding a friendship, or trying a few months of dating to see how you feel. You certainly dont need to go from here to trying again or not trying again.

Hope the volcano settles down soon.

Take care xx
Posted By: AJM

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/25/15 08:40 PM

Agreed. I suggest that you may want to consider that you don't need to worry about the future that may or may not happen. That will just fuel the volcano mind smile

Rather, you can take things one day at a time and re-evaluate later.

It's not uncommon for the leaving spouse to try and return after some time. It's also not uncommon for the roles to reverse at that time. Just know that you're not alone in the way you feel. That change of direction is a killer. And you may remember the roller-coaster - that's when the direction changes so quickly that you can barely keep up. i.e. you're out of phase with each other, if you put it another way.

But after the hurt, we tend to build walls. Walls we don't easily break down. Nor should you for many reasons. More of a wait and see approach is likely a good idea.

And it's not uncommon to feel like the WAS at this point. In many ways, you are and you aren't. And that's OK, P. I can see that if you were to easily jump back on board, it wouldn't be much for him to work at either. Things that are worth it, take work. And he may work at it if you make that possible while respecting your own feelings.

Who knows, you may work at it as well. Or as Toots mentions, you may just end up friends.

Don't fear the journey though. And don't over-think it smile

AJ
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/26/15 10:59 AM

Hi Toots,
thanks for dropping by - offering feedback esp. when a volcano mind won't be dormant enough to think!

Originally Posted By: Toots
Hi Pbetra, I would say just take the time you need. Like most of us here, you have been through a lot.

I think this is prudent. it's a new day & when i think about it - I really won't be able to cope right now. It's a ride I need to get off (w/all the whip-lashing) smile ... before getting back on again ..

Perhaps you could initially focus on rebuilding a friendship, or trying a few months of dating to see how you feel. You certainly dont need to go from here to trying again or not trying again.

Sounds good - I will start with friendship first.

Here at DB, we know that mlc pretty much ends our R. The old M is over. With something new, friendship might be a good start especially given the fact that we are both different & still changing anyway.

It would be interesting to see h reaction ( I heard from him yet again - did not answer call), b/c my purpose was to get the volcano to sleep, so I continued with my stuff yesterday. NO distractions, you know??!!


Hope the volcano settles down soon.

Take care xx


Thanks again Toots for your input - (much needed in times of temp. 'distress' ) p. lol laugh
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 07/26/15 12:04 PM

Hi AJ,
thx for responding. So refreshing when one feels a little desperate, but unable to think re sitch at the time

Originally Posted By: AJM
Agreed. I suggest that you may want to consider that you don't need to worry about the future that may or may not happen. That will just fuel the volcano mind smile

Know something you are absolutely right! The future will take care of itself! smile

Rather, you can take things one day at a time and re-evaluate later.

This is very sound ADVICE - advice I must make every effort to remember whenever things go out of whack. ONE day at a time ...

It's not uncommon for the leaving spouse to try and return after some time. It's also not uncommon for the roles to reverse at that time. Just know that you're not alone in the way you feel. That change of direction is a killer. And you may remember the roller-coaster - that's when the direction changes so quickly that you can barely keep up. i.e. you're out of phase with each other, if you put it another way.

But after the hurt, we tend to build walls. Walls we don't easily break down. Nor should you for many reasons. More of a wait and see approach is likely a good idea.

re bold above. - it takes the chaos out of my thinking to see it in words. That's right, we 'are out of phase' (!), makes so much sense. It is the opposing cycles of the two of us that is creating the havoc, havoc I don't need right now ... feels too messy.

I like the wait & see - & indicated 'same' re Toots' post, immediately before your own. To not wait & see is to 'fight the forces of nature' I think. To not go with the flow & natural order of healing will ultimately make things worse.


And it's not uncommon to feel like the WAS at this point. In many ways, you are and you aren't. And that's OK, P. I can see that if you were to easily jump back on board, it wouldn't be much for him to work at either. Things that are worth it, take work. And he may work at it if you make that possible while respecting your own feelings.[/color]

Agree with. I respect what he told me - how he felt & why. It is also the need to respect my feelings that will prevent me from acting in haste at the moment. Just can't do it. 'Doormaters' will usually want 'dormatees' anyway (not the other way around)

Who knows, you may work at it as well. Or as Toots mentions, you may just end up friends.
Like you said AJ, "wait & see" - that's what Im running with! laugh
(I have work to do ON MYSELF in the meantime)

Don't fear the journey though. And don't over-think it smile

ok won't overthink!
The fear part is my BIG, BAD MONSTER. That one's so much harder for me. My brain has to learn what is not 'traditionally' there. That's a separate journey I am currently on, which is why, I have to minimize what I can!


AJ


Thanks again Aj for your input! Like I insinuated before - when we can't see the information in a 'cloud of whirling thoughts', its' great to get an objective, CLEAR reposnse from another. Makes ALL the difference!! p smile
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 08/16/15 01:51 PM

Hi there
Not much happening, just stopping with random thoughts & a little forum reading.

  • Free @ home:
I feel 'free' to be vulnerable, fail, 'whatever,' make a @$$ of myself. All without hearing some back handed comment or put down. FREE to just be ...

This was something I could not be prior to getting some space, some peace. Everything (!) was an issue - & so I kept all calm whenever I could (just like my mother), b/c that would 'solve' the problem. laugh yup sure did!! Proof of the need to clam things, balm things was the desperation I felt when I started the thread on confrontation - the bombardment of thoughts, fears ... the feeling that I had NO time to get the solution as I would lose h. The forum couldn't cough up advice fast enough! smirk

I keep telling myself to go back to read my thread btw. i haven't completed it at all. I continue to read everyone else's but not my own. I am experiencing more peace at the moment & I don't really want to disrupt it just yet! laugh I need that before I delve into the mess to 'freudian access' (lol) & learn from my sitch.

  • listening to music
I've always listened to music to relax. However, now I have a tendency to sing more (!) while listening to music. Didnt do that for a while. Also enjoy catching up with what's out there & current. Still listen to music of my 'era' but I have found that mid/elder- lifers don't always live in the 'present present'. So many people hold on to the past as they get older, "In their day ...this, that, the other ... all about "a period of time" that is already gone. I still act my age of course, laugh but I want to live here, now and don't want to be stuck in some time warp like some of my older relatives.

  • spring cleaning
have been spring cleaning like crazy since h left!! There were certain things that needed sorting etc & I just couldn't think. Well, I am a little more effective re my actions & efficient re time. These are the SAME projects I coudlnt manage before. shocked The 'mental muck' is clearly bit by bit impacting on the physical muck.

  • can do
still have anxiety every now & then when. This includes when i have to deal w/ problems related to repairs for house. It feels overwhelming.
BUT am learning I can actually 'do stuff' I never knew I could do grin, 'Stuff' like assembling furniture (!), and even tasks like 'light' house repairs.
This is a different feeling from feeling good re social activities. The realization that I could. I assumed before that only h could solve those problems. For crying out loud, I'm using tools!!! laugh

  • akeru
I refer to the akeru solution as in the *susan anderson book on abandonment, loss (*fyi, below). The use of mindfulness, the observation of present moment components from the senses. Some efforts are more successful than others but I persist as I desperately want to create NEW thinking/feeling/emotion habits for myself.
* Susan Anderson, The Journey from Abandonment to Healing

  • ongoing observation
Continue to observe that no matter what you want or hope for, there really is a process that cannot be 'forced' or hurried' as Cadet reminds us re "Trust the Process'
In nature, (human nature, universe nature .. 'nature nature' ) all must run its course - rivers breaking the dam & meandering through, carving the land on its 'own terms' relative to conditions, gradients and amt of water. It will work it's own course - otherwise the 'break the damn' effect (BOOM) will result with debris strewn everywhere. Even tiny viruses have to run their course regardless of what medicine we take sometimes - effective only for 'symptoms, ' masking the illness.

In this case the authentic expression of emotion relative to each & every condition must run its own course. This is not restricted to mlc but so many other areas of healthy human development as well.

Time is needed to heal, reveal & to resolve.
It is hard, hurtful, scary eek but surprisingly 'doable' even when doubtful.

Have a good day db-ers! p.
smile





-----------------------------
oh btw

  • h
Since my last few posts I did not accept any calls from h. I noted I got heart palpations whenever msg came in. i think its NOT knowing what it is about. I have changed. Guilt would have consumed me. Whether or not I felt like it, I would have told myself to be courteous and answer. He was contacting me a lot & got msg. We both need space.

I can hardly wait for that anxious 'auto pilot' response to him to end - & I know it will in TIME.

  • old thoughts
I no longer have the amt. of frequent reoccurring 'h-thoughts' as i did before (they still intrude occasionally but not as many, & I work to push them away when they do)

(A few months ago my thoughts compromised my well being re h. There was one particular incident where I wanted him to come back. The doubt would set in. It was challenging to remember that nothing is permanent b/c of the feeling of insecurity & uncertainty. At the time, I recalled jeckyll h,' & jeckyll is really, really nice. smile Had such a good time with him (around the time that the 'move out' was certain (!), but he was waiting for a place). The desperation to hold on to him resurfaced as I experienced that warm, kind side of him. It was SEDUCTION. The mixed feelings & sadness were torture b/c I knew that h-hyde would be back sooner or later. I had a l o n g washroom moment to express the weird sadness I was feeling).

he called a few days ago re c (back & getting ready for school). h had nice visit w/c, but not w/me. It was was VERY AWKWARD between us. pleasant small talk but very, very odd (which is fine).

I think (?) he still doesn't know what he wants. Regardless of whatever the facts are though, I have taken the road to be "friends" & to not worry about the future ( re advice, preceding posts). I also need to be my own friend (!) during this time of healing. There were times I didn't know who I was anymore.

he yesterday wanted an R talk - I couldn't deal with it. I felt the cool air over the phone. felt sorry about my choice . I know I am no 'light house' right now, but I cannot let myself slip any further. We'll get to it another time.

We really are at very different 'points on the line' now - no intersection. The cog wheels continue to turn ... the *PROCESS is in effect cool

(* Cadet)


(am laughing now - this is practically another post!) laugh laugh laugh
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 08/22/15 09:09 PM

Venting. I feel a little upset.

h left msgs 4 me last night (turns out that it did not concern the two of us for a change). I think he realizes that I have been pleasant but 'lukewarm,' got the msg and eased off a bit. This was good b/c I did/do not want to hurt him but needed the time & space.

anyway he wants to take child, C "to meet granny". I don't know what to think!

When we first got married, h tried to keep things calm re his family. A few years after we had the baby, he made a decision. He did not want our child to be alone with his mother. He didn't "trust" mother with C - his words. Not long after that he cut off ties with her.

My mother in law is extremely dishonest ... has no moral compass. The woman weaves the truth as it suits her. She has a subtle craziness about her - I say subtle b/c she cries easily. She portrays the victim role very well & has fooled a lot of people. She is manipulative and likes her way. Is the controller as I mentioned in earlier posts.

C has heard h arguing with her (very badly,very passionately, throughout the years. He had asked me a few years ago why his father "hated granny" so much.

Re C: I feel that after the major move, now a separation (about 2 yrs after move) - & now this (?!), would simply confuse him. He has grown up most of his life without "granny", and does NOT like her (!) b/c of what HIS father (not me!!) has said throughout the years. h was NOT discreet re his feelings when defending himself with his other family members or family friends.

I do know that h is unable to keep up his rent & other expenses. He has to move in 2 months. I also know that he spoke with his mother since he moved out, although briefly from what 'came back to me.'

My mother in law is proud & always wanted a 'picture perfect' family regardless of the many issues & had asked h many times in the past to bring c (picture taking etc). This may be a moving issue & having the child be part of the sitch(?) Really don't know! I was so surprised ... I simply responded to him - this is not the time.

Was I wrong? confused They are so o o o o o ill! sick I don't want c around their mess.
Posted By: job

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 08/22/15 09:13 PM

Did your h give an explanation as to why he wants C to meet granny? I would be concerned about the sudden change of heart.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 08/22/15 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: job
Did your h give an explanation as to why he wants C to meet granny? I would be concerned about the sudden change of heart.


Hi Job,

h said that he does not want c 'to pay' for his feelings about his mother.
I think this is a 'reasonable' response. however, he had always voiced his reasons WHY he felt the way he did & why he did not want c around her. He does not like the hypocritical, "dangerous" (his words!!) person that she is.

This is why I am wondering if he is getting desperate (?) since he has to be on move again.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 08/22/15 09:41 PM

Oh
Another thing just occurred to me. He mother had tried to 'entice' him re bank related matter. He said (at the time), that he would rather starve that accept anything from that $%$%^ (this was just pre-mlc so not that long ago!)

Now he has no place, no money ...

It wreaks with suspicion. I may ask him to talk sometime this week BUT I need to calm down !!!
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 09/01/15 11:24 PM

Hi there,
left my computer for a few minutes earlier today & that turned into a few hours!

h's request/ "granny"
Just wanted to post feedback re: h's request concerning child C, & "granny".
I did not ask h as he stayed w/ c whenever he came & I simply did not get the opportunity, although I tried! h was often quiet - strange (?) It did not 'feel' like the right time.

Re the contact following the request, h has been brief with me whenever he would visit or call for child. He never mentioned his mother. It appeared to be a thought re convenience. His plans worked out temp. in that he got somewhere to "camp out" (his words), he has not brought up 'granny' again.

I am relieved. I really need a break from 'drama' & toxic distractions. sick The sad thing is that C really does NOT like this woman (granny) at all. All from his father too (!), who was often careless during heated family conversations. Not me! I have always been careful esp. as a 'non- relative'.

It is amazing how situations are changed relative to needs, so since it has happened before, it can happen again! confused In any event, I am glad for the 'break' from it at the moment.

child
C was doing well but has been getting quieter, "wants privacy" ..."isolation." After my next project, i will try to consistently have stuff planned to distract him until he gets used to the 'new' situation. The good thing is that C talks to me, most times, wink so I know what's going on.

our connections
I am also beginning to get feedback from people we know/knew as a couple. "So sorry to hear" "call me" ... I suppose the news is getting out there! Some are curious about it I guess. I really won't have very much to say should I meet them (as one must be prepared). I just don't need to get into any 'heavy stuff' when I am trying to get better, that's all.

I don't always feel comfortable with some of them, but that's life, isn't it? I am thinking about the people we met with as a couple when we first got here. People who I liked, developed a relationship with, people who have heard the most disrespectful things re me. I will miss some of them ... more loss. frown Like I said, that's life, isn't it?

my evening
Anyway, time to attend to a few domestic activities - & relax a bit afterward before bed. I want to wake up early to get some work done re project.

Keep on keeping on fellow db-ers. That's all for now ( thank you God!!! laugh laugh )
p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 09/24/15 08:10 PM

Thinking 'on screen' ...

Life is 'curvy'.

My finances are low (again) so that's a bit stressful. I continue to hope for something consistent. Sometimes I feel so tired, but financial stress can do that.

H is around regularly. C is happy but likes knowing that I am nearby - doesn't really want to be with h alone. I leave the two to do 'whatever' but I stay in.

btw - We are friends as suggested but the conversations have been 'safe' ones (since I will not bring up any R) grin
btw, h's mother is bad guy ... again! Reality is changed re her once more (?)

h came on real strong a few weeks ago (& a few times after that) but has calmed down due to my lukewarm reaction. I felt this was driven by desperation. I don't always feel good about how suspicious I have become. However, I really can't differentiate between what's real or not with him. He's practically the same both ways eek ( the sitch is like the boy who cried wolf)

Haven't been able to GAL as much as I am trying to have my work materialize in a reliable way. I continue to learn about helping myself in areas I didn't think I could. That's a good thing.

Going to read a few posts before signing off now (can't advise as you know - am no expert here! ), then break, then back to work. smirk
Wish you all well with your own sitch in adventure land wink , aka db land ... p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 11/19/15 02:10 AM

Hi guys,
Just dropped by to wish you all a good Thanksgiving laugh
(I know it will not be "happy" for many), but maybe those of you who are just beginning on this journey can make it good for yourselves somehow (?) The Holidays are fast approaching so I needed to write this now if unable to later!

I have been very, very busy generally speaking, trying with work. It's been a lot for not too much $ LOL Oh so typical grin
Got quite sick for a while, fatigued with all sorts of weird things going on - all without explanation. I think this was just my body speaking to me - yelling "stop" "pay attention, you need to slow down, make some changes" Soooo I did. I have ... re working.

I still exercise although not as frequently - but regularly (due to work).
Still meditate although without the best results ( due to work). grin
GALl but not too much (due to work, income is small - & can't always say "yes")

h is very much around. I did what was suggested - just friends. Good thing too, because there were days I could see the 'crap-pretend self' emerging in between his personas or whatever that was. All this, until not too long ago!

H seems to have a more heightened interest in child, C. Interest in parent's well being (although spotty), where there was disdain before. And wanted to get me "something special". shocked We hugged good bye and he was more cuddly than usual.

There are times, I still don't know what is real or not re h. I am still trying to determine if we will be a good fit for each other in the long term. I see no urgency in hurrying to find out I am enjoying what I can with C.

The Holidays will be modest but good. However, I listen to music as I prepare - music is happiness in sound for me smile
So my fellow dbers, again a very Special, meaningful, holiday Season to you ALL. Make it so. I do hope to jump in again but boy does time fly! p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 02/16/16 03:06 PM

Hi everyone,

Another year for us all - best wishes for 2016, although delayed everyone (It's never too late to wish anyone the best!)
I am finding it harder to get time to post as regularly as hoped. frown Wish i could read & post more often. When i do have time online, I am looking of ways to find opportunities for myself, my family. It takes hours - & not always relevant in the end.

There are no great changes to 'report'. I started the year with great plans, positive outlook & anticipation.

Unfortunately, the reality is that it's getingt harder. I no longer have help. I get sick often -  fatigue doesn't leave. I dont feel proud to admit that I dont always feel hopeful - so much involves energy I don't have. Its hard in midlife to have to try more with less, to try harder with less energy, less strength.

I do wish I had less sporadic income. The strain is getting to me ( like 99.9999999..... % of the average folk in this 'global economy' Im sure !! i know i have lotsa company! eek

I worry about this re health issues 4 parent should something/emergency arise.
I need it for child's needs.
It's too 'close to the edge' 4 comfort. Know what I mean?

I have been exercising. sporadically at times but the good thing is that the periods in between are not overly lengthy. So i have maintained a good weight.  Meditation needs more work though. I find it hard to focus. I am not able to help child, "C" as i did just a few months ago!! 

h comes by frequently to see us (which I don't always like this b/c I don't have the energy to pretend that things r great wtih me). The thing is though that it's not critical to the point where i feel i must make the effort unlike b4.

I do see some sort of changes in him - greying in & out I guess. H seems more 'responsible' sometime, interested in parent's & child's life & well being. TALKS to me a lot when here about stuff, things he wants to work on
Then, he invited me out shocked ... My friend encouraged me to go. We were both so surprised! (I wasn't sure b/c I knew that a few of the people who heard the worse things about me were going to be there, & I didn't know if I would b comfortable). This was one of the events that I was unceremoniously dropped from by him since this all began.

At the event, h was gradually getting drunk. He even jokingly asked a woman (while plastered) for her phone number in front of me! That was after, casually flirting with other women throughout the evening (in between being attentive to me). We're 'friends' now remember? So no claims here! He told me that he didn't mind if the men flirted w/me - but I knew why. It would make his actions 'ok'. This was up to a point,  I think even he surprised himself.

I got more attention as time went on (probably b/c everyone was getting more relaxed?? blush ). Anyway, h soon became 'almost possessive' (I think he was surprised that I got attention at all! Mind you the only one more surprised than him was me! I am sooooo 'out of it', not to mention  that this experience can affect one's confidence (getting the boot for the prettier younger models with whom you CAN'T possibly compete with their perfect skin & hair). All who he flirted with were younger, although not overly so in all cases ... BUT younger than 50's. He did this 'behind my back' since mlc first began, it's odd (& disrespectful) that he would invite me out and do this 'in front' of me! Someone made a comment about "my husband" ( which i could not hear w/music) ... he held my hand & said "you're beautiful." I nearly wet myself blush I suspect that this guy was quietly observing more than I realized, noting h's behaviour & what I was exposed to. I had to put on an act at times when i felt personally humiliated. I did take my friend's advice though. I had a good time for me in spite of it.

Pre-event
h talks as though we would get back (under 'normal circumstances/when sober), he talks as though we have a future (when sober laugh ) . He working at something & it's a big fish so he's on cloud 9. All this talk seemed ok until this. He put on party music similar to that of the event and begins to do a little dancing. However, while dancing, h lifted his t to show me his "muscular definition" (!) all while dancing to the party music, his smile really BIG across his face & looking in the mirror.

I thought 1 - he has a long way to go. 2 - I have no patience or smirk energy 4 this. I am too busy trying to stabalize my life for my family - the vulnerable two whom I care for. A child & an ill parent. This is day 2 of a headache i have - i am afraid. I see no real hope in h unless certain things change. He talks so well even admitting certain things, but after event & muscle definition session ... well ???? In any event one should not depend on anyone. (He's back with one of his buddies - the two had a disagreement at the time, so it's no wonder that he seemed more mature. Now they are back again ... not 4 me to figure out)

h was dropping by to see C today but went out with buddy. I know Ill hear from him later. The difference at this juncture is that he seems to be marrying (freudian slip?) the two worlds, whereas b 4 he kept our family & his new life many degrees apart! So, pre eveninghe was growing up, around event he meets buddy, good times come back to mind (?) & behaviour changes as buddies renew estranged relationship! Post event, the influence of renewed relationship (TBA) eek

I really hope that 2016 will improve. Life is about the quality of life not constant struggle. Geez ... for crying out loud !!!!

I'll be back by Easter laugh after I catch up on some reading here. Easter is the season of re-birth ... I hope for something to come through on my side. Looks like h will b fine regardless of outcome, he's smart, screwy but smart. He'll land on his feet. My feet? They are sore lol

Anyway, take care all db-ers, again, the best to you with your own journeys! smile
p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 02/18/16 09:59 AM

hi
didn't expect to be back here so soon. I am not venting but rather reflecting - & here's a safe place to do that.

At the end of the day, no matter what, no one should be dependent on another.
This is the lesson I have for my child C. It resonates more than anything right now, mlc or not.


1st married
When h did not want me to work when we first married, he suggested that he would take care of all -"just look after the home." It seemed like a perfectly normal remark. After all, we were living among other homemakers like myself. The men hung out together & we would do our 'thang' ..

I regret this. I should have thought more about me & just not accept this. It s not h's fault, I should have thought MORE about this. We were young & happy. I was stupid to not think more.

Me as a child - da clues!
I was always busy doing stuff since I was a child - entrepreneurial stuff. I didn't even remember (!!) that - always up to something grin And made $$ too! Right through to my early 20's. Fabric & creative endeavours ...
I lost myself ... Homemaking defined 'me' after a while or 'consumed' me ... gobbled me up.

This is how frail life really is.
Had the economy remained healthy & where money was no problem & we continued being comfortable, we would just be looking for the next 'adventure' to have! cool Fact is, the foundation was not strong and an earthquake high enough on the mlc richter scale levelled all.

I dont' know if i should even be coming here. I am not piecing .. not trying 'overly hard'. I feel depleted after this. But it's b/c many things were depleting me prior to this. shocked There is only so much I can do.

h
I am friends with h. I went out with him (as I mentioned in the post prior to this). This was the first 'real' invitation since this began. I was not 'excited' so to speak (partly due to the others /invited). I was curious & without expectations. I went with a 'friend'. Again, it's the trust thing. We have spoken since that evening. He NEVER brings up R. He talks a lot to me, is even nice to me, but R never comes up (at times, I don't even know why he's here!)

He took C. out for a walk recently which was nice. The interest in family/ family stuff was non existent for so long. He does come across as 'more normal' sometimes, until particular triggers (buddy, alcohol) are present, at which time, he regresses. The 'maturity' re: opinions, advice returns when those influencers are out of pic.

1st things 1st!
I know I may have said this - but these times are becoming more challenging. I have to use what personal resources I have left for meaningful things. Those things that matter. I cannot put my eggs in an 'unstable basket.' Maybe this is why I do not handle the M with urgency. You see, I was wondering about this. Was not feeling too good b/c so many others here ARE trying.

Sooooo ... what's wrong with me? Right? This is what led to 'reflection ' in the first place. I need to be stable. I can't afford to be or feel vulnerable. My money sitch is flakey ... I worry about emergencies. Am too close to the edge. The security is not there. I am working on this. I KNOW the opportunities are there in this 'whole wide world' grin - I just haven't found them. I keep changing routes hoping that the destination would be the one I want.

To sum it ALL up, A L L of it
At the end of the day, no matter what, no one should be dependent on another.
Tell your children & your grand children. - depend on yourself!

p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 09/02/16 03:13 PM

Hi everyone,
been busy making a living.
Can't really complain about anything too much.

My changes:
Got a little braver - have grown a little more indifferent (re this entire experience). Can say what I want & not care less (unlike before when the fear would well up. Interesting though what happened to my heart (!) (re: fear issues), a while back. It was awful -

BUT it's okay, I am proud that i have made some baby steps! smile
Wish I could go out MORE! Wish I could travel the world! Wish I could ride a spaceship BUT it's OK. All in good time!! grin

H and I are friends - although not close ones. That's ok. cool It goes on.
My child, C is doing well enough - could be so much worse. There are ups & downs, but that's life. I am loved and cherished by C so that's BIG of course. We try, that's all we could do ..

I have thought of many of you at the forum quite often, & attempted to start writing many times but was unable. I did get sick at one point because many 'priorities' turned up at the same time. You know that when it rains, it pours frown I still managed 'to save the day' BUT in the end my immunity was a bit comprised & my body 'caved' lol Still did it tho! Did all! And I am doing what I should! I still get through so much, so I feel alright. I don't worry about the future as much as I used to.

I hope that you are all getting on with your lives in an improved way. This forum was my lifeline when I needed it. I will NEVER forget, never! Love you guys blush
bye for now, p.
Posted By: AndrewP

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 09/02/16 04:46 PM

pbetra - Thanks for swinging by. I'm new here since your last visit but thought I'd wave "hi". It sounds like you're doing well in finding yourself.

Best of luck as you continue on your journey.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 09/02/16 05:12 PM

Hi Andrew,

Yes, thanks, I am doing better. I do have my down days but they are fewer & further apart!! I have arrived a place in my life that I never imagined for myself - I would not have associated it with me, maybe someone bolder. I can even do more than I knew I could. What a trip!

I will stop by your thread to see what's been up with you.

What I can say is that, this really takes time to run its own course, & the course has to be realized. Everyone's course is different as well .. different 'routes' of different periods of time.

I haven't seen your thread but if you take care of you and follow the advice of those here, you will find yourself at a place that is healthier for you in future. grin cool

Best of luck to you, thanks again for stopping by. p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/01/16 06:45 PM

I read andrewp the last time I visited, also in pain. Got me to thinking.  

I have not gone back to see my posts since I came to DB. I am not sure why, it's not that I didn't think of it. I may have felt a little shaky, especially since nothing was really resolved, so I chose to not 'dig anything up.' At the moment, my tentative plan is Jan - March 2017 (March would make it 3 years since this all began).

In 2014, I didnt know up from down or left from right, as emotions merged together in a soup of chaos & anxiety. There was a desperate, ongoing restlessness & urgency within, that could not be shaken. You have been there - some of you are (unfortunately) just getting on board. To say I was saddened, was simply not 'adequate.'

In this forum - there were so many different personalites to 'e-meet' - with differnent background experiences, & yet we met here because of commonality. All of us carried varying 'hurts' at different times along the way, relative to our development & socialization, different insecurites, successes, failures, up to this point, and then some more along the way here at the forum! We were (& continue to be) all in this 'soup', within various stages of maturity concerning our shared experiences. Trying to decipher so much at the same time as what was happening, wasn't always easy for me. It isnt easy for all but for some it is harder relatively speaking.

Can we be in an infinite number of places at the same time, & expected to closely pay attention to each scenario ??
I was so 'all-emotional' with the dominant emotion being fear. Fear consumed me. I couldn't see the extent of anything. When you're IN the whirlwind, vollently swirling around - you can't see the mass, the dimensions, the bleek colours. You're IN it!! It is only time & distance that propels you out of it. At some point, when you look back, you see the whole sick entity of which you were a part. AND you're STILL suffering from all that 'motion sickness!'

Cowardly 
I don't (or others) consider myself a coward BUT I am seeing more & more that I was in my M. I did not 'make waves.' To make waves, would result in only the tsnaumi type wave(!), which would then take me for a hell of a ride, before being drowned in its fury. Again, these events are 'easier' to handle for some than others. I have a trememdous amount of fear issues & those distracted & impacted on me even when I was NOT aware. frown

I am learning more with time. I had no idea re: the enormity of my 'fear situation'. This has been a valuable learning aspect of the overall traumatic experience - but more so learning by myself. The opportunity to 'truly grow up' and clean out internal sludge & garbage without reservation or hesitation - but most importantly without observation as if being graded.   

I was afraid to lose H. Afraid to lose my M. ( possibly just a little afraid to also lose that which was opposite of me & what to some extent I wish I could be - "brave" (which was appealing. I don't know as yet).   

How times have changed! 
As the months went by, I went from nights of sadness, lonliness, doubt and uncertainity to enjoying the PEACE of mind. I began breathing out - was free & whatever happened wouldn't be a crisis. Funny enough, the work sitch grew WORSE this year. Money still IS a real problem BUT I really don't worry about it as much as I did! It's weird. I'm financially worse off than last year but my mindset is better in spite of this reality. I just deal with 'whatever' every month. It's hard, & yet I handle it somehow.

I did get sick, but I was healthier than I realized & I fought off 'stuff' with my own defenses. No high blood pressure, no blood sugar, cholesterol all good (this I did not expect from how I felt at times).. all good medical feed back. The exercise and meditation is working. The over work & fatigue was responsible (which is to be expected), so I have to be mindful to pace myself (as advised by my doctor ). I listen to 'sleep music' with simple rhythmic patterns and focus on them to try to get my mind to settle (you can find them re: yoga meditations, alpha, delta brain wave music that sort of thing). 

What I really believe is that getting some space helped me. Toxic situations are what they are and I couldn't really move forward with him in the picture after a while. He still impacted on me, even when I thougth I was handling it.

There was the 'background noise' of constant self management, not crying, looking/acting confident, planning/'GAL-ing' - which was too much when I just wanted 'to be.' 

Physically separating  from the offender made me feel empowed, less controlled and FREE to fail, to make a fool of myself without having to hear some snide remark echoing in the background - just loud enough for me to hear. Free to be a #$$^%^ idiot and KNOW that the sun would still rise, to make mistakes and not tbe blamed, insulted, belittled. Interestingly enough, I was more of an idiot with him around.

I came to a point where I did not give a rat's bum about H - most times! This feeling or way of being surprised me. We chat but I can relate so much to the thread re: inpain, piecing, I have A HARD TIME trusting. It's that simple.

After he left, we still saw each occasionally re C. We were 'friends' although it was all artificial & sometimes strained. I knew he wasn't real with me, just curious as to how I was managing. So I too was artificial - making sure that he didn't see me in a depressed or sad state during hardship.

After many civil visits, I wondered if he was coming out of the tunnel and I was curious re his metamorphosis. One day, he wanted to talk!! It was the first time that he initiated something on this level as opposed to shallow observations (weather etc) for small talk. He shared a few things re: future, mentioned "us" which i hadn't heard since this began. I simply listened.

A Blast from the Past:
Some months passed by & I made a 'mistake' one day eek - I was assertive (have not been this way ever). A friend told me to keep strong & I remembered her words. I stood up for my thoughts & feelings (after all he said he wanted to talk). He didn't like it and shut me off, refusing to hear what I said, walking away as I spoke.

It wasn't ovely important, it just signified to me that, that part of him hadn't changed. He always dismissed what he didn't want to hear, & typically with insults ('my way or the highway'). It was always simpler to leave him with 'whatever.' 

I wondered why he implied that he was interested (!) in getting back (??). I felt after the above that he probably wanted the convenience of a 'safe wife,' but doesn't want the changes to make the wife happy ('my way or the highway'), which in succession would make him happy. It didn't matter to me either way, I was off discovering myself - which was long overdue! I continued with what I could. Some days were frustrating but that had nothing to do with him, just me trying to forge a future.

Some time after that, H communicated renewed interest in the R again (!!).  He was civil. Careful not to offend (that's new) There was a part of him that had begun to change a little (as mentioned above). The conversations continued to take on a different feel - less detached, more interest in me and C (!) More interest in being a FAMILY again! The problem was that he seemed to want to pick up just where he left off! As though NOTHING happened! This I found 'astonishing' ..

He was kind & I felt in some twisted way that he was really trying - & really wanted a future with us. I wondered why. One day during another visit, another conversation was initiated by him, this time it went further. I told him that I could not return to the R without T. I didn't plan to say this, it just came out. I tend to say what I feel more often ... (I have also been remembering more dreams ????) 

Anyway, that convesation escalated. It was the talk of T. T always makes him upset. In any event, I 'held my ground' - said what I had to say!  The calm left him although he remained more 'composed.'  I noted that the outburst seemed more improved. With him, I very rarely trust.

Much of the familiar crap returned. Blame. All that I had done wrong. Even the altercations with other people & relatives (!) resulted because of his frustration with me (& not the fact that he has anger issues) blah blah vlah .. I agreed with him but continued that since I made him sooooooooo unhappy, that we 1 - stay separate OR 2 - give it one final go WITH Therapy. 

Heartfelt
I held my ground - but I felt the repercussions! frown I never felt my heart the way it did that evening (& I thought I was fine - this came out of nowhere !?). It wasn't the usual heart palpitations. It didn't seem like a heart attack from what I read/heard of. It was something else. I assumed it was stress & VERY BIG FEAR manifested. It was the first time I went AGAINST my grain. My mind & body wasn't used to this - so it reacted to the alien behaviour.

I stayed with it, stayed within the horrific moment, pulling (!) on air very subtlely, pulling on air, telling myself "breathe". My back was turned to H by then as I continued to try to slow my entire system down. It lasted about 5 minutes but felt like 5 hours! I even managed a smile to myself (still with my turned back ) in the midst of it! I smiled at my audacity to not submit to any intimidation.I coudln't believe that this was me - it was so different for me. I had dealt with a miniscule psychological hurdle of some sort and that's probably why there was that weird level of discomfort. I noted the level of indifference that I had re: the M & I think that H was genuinely surprised by my attitiude (what card can one play then?)

H must have thought about much of his reaction because when he visited C the next time, he was open about certain 'concerns,' even admissions! iI thought of this as damage control. On the visits following that, he tried to be affectionate - and consequently sometime after that gave me a hug & clearly wanted intimacy. He was put off that I was "not trying"  (??) I did not comment. I am amazed shocked about the expectation that we simply pick up where we left off without meaningful communication or help.

Sad thing is I really have no emotional resources left to even pretend. I really need this rest period. I do.
IF I ever return to the M, it cannot be wihtout T/therapy for us both.  If I could afford it now, I'd be there in a jiffy (whenever, I manage a little $$, I distract C's. reality /'life monotony' with something fun! And we always have a great time together. I love him so much & it is reciprocated (although we have our moments LOL) In any event, until T is possible, the space and opportunity to be by myself is therapy in itself! It just 'feels freer.'

I was just wrapping up.
I left this post to return to check typos as my eyesight isn't what Ii used to be. Two things happened.

> H called to say he will be away and will see us in a few weeks. It is possible he will drop in to see C before. In spite of the many 'disagreements,' he isn't too put off. lol
> I also heard that some things didn't work for him, so its no wonder I am soooooo appealing ... again. He knows the kind of person I am - anything but shallow & fickle (unlike 'out there'). Too Incredible wink sick .

He's clearly not 'done,' but I am! I cannot return to what I left. Only with time & T can there be a 'chance'. 

In the meantime
I continue with expressive arts & am improving. I get a lot of material re this experience!!
My dreams are more vivid, &
like the song says( James Bay - Let It Go) says, "you be you & Ill be me" cool
(I'll do "we" with T/ MC thank ya very much). grin

--------------------------
ps: hope you are getting out of pain, in pain. will check on you all another time. hope that i didn't leave ya with too many typos!
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/02/16 07:06 AM

Hi all,

I glanced at

Feyth on happiness course & Rouky 'starting life over' after posting but had to get ready for bed. Starting over caught my attention of obvious reasons.

I did positive psy. course Feyth. It's a little different but equally interesting.

I think that some level of psychology should be part of our overall education! grin We understand so much more re advances in technology - probes that reveal the outskirts of the galaxy, advances in medicine & medical scanning & other equipment. The most amazing buildings, bridges & structures in Dubai, China .. all over the globe! It's all so impressive! And yet we are so behind re understanding ourselves. crazy I very much welcome these wonderful courses as a means to help us understand & learn more about why we feel, react the way we do - even when we want to feel react differently at times.

We still 'reside in reptilian mode' as you know. We know this but we are not yet able to manage it as effectively as we should. The course I took mentioned that we have a 'negativity bias.' We are wired to think this way so it's no wonder that overcoming traumatic events are so hurtful & challenging. Negativity served our ancestors. Evolution made it so. Today we are still impacted.

For the course, we had to outline goals for ourselves. This was a project.
I included short - long, 'even longer' (!!) term goals. wink

SELF DEVELOPMENT below. General 'work to' areas: Professional & personal. Mind. Education. Creative. Travel

- Health - *mind + body:
Meditation, Yoga. Also listened to Tibetan singing bowls (as recommended by a forum member) Walking, strength training & sleep concerned 'body'. Also awareness of eye health & care. (have not been consistent re strength training & eye exercises)

- *Mind (was further developed)
Brain DUMPING - writing/journalling. doodling.
Laughter!! ( looked at some youtube videos that made me laugh)
Brain training exercises (have not done)
Learn / experience new things (yup, ongoing)

- Family shocked ( this one was tricky , in comp. to other students)
Continue to be loving & supportive in spite of current challenges - to NOT let myself be neglectful esp. re child

- Social
Meet new people. Establish more authentic relationships (good so far, with most I do keep this mlc mess away from new connections)

- Community
Help others re: whatever areas of strength I possess (?). This I hope to do re: expressive arts. (nothing here yet, community is long term - as I have to start with my own mess before helping others).

- Education
Take courses. Take advantage of free courses if funds are prohibiting (in others words, I have no excuse to not learn!! laugh Active/Ongoing.
Reading! Related to interests, general. (I do 15 - 30 mins /day - twice a week, more if able to!)

- Creative
Read Artist Way (liked the **weekly dates & highly recommend whether artist or not) Ongoing but INCONSISTENT frown
Practise sketching (great! regular!)I show up whether the piece/or mood is good or not!
Practise writing (ongoing)
Learn music (long term goal) For now, I listen laugh to variety!

** Re artist date: make a date with yourself. something you want to do, a place you wanted to go to .. it is 'me time', once a week.

- Travel
-Staycation (ongoing)

They are all wip. smile I manage with some & continue to move along where I can.
I enjoyed this course. I may even re-do. I took other creative courses as well.

Best to you all, Take care, p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/02/16 07:10 AM

unable to find edit - excuse typos, above. frown Trying to get to all on my to do list. may try another browser in future if this button isn't active or simply doesn't show.

I should have checked again esp. re my eyesight, but was looking at time. again sorry about that, p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/02/16 08:47 AM

[img:left]https://www.facebook.com/mindfulschools/...e=3&theater[/img]

I was trying to include this image for anyone interested in happiness, positive psy. or mindfulness. courses.

It was one that I located this during my positive psy. course for my project. I am also trying to get my child to try. laugh I admit that mindfulness isn't easy for me - esp. with distractions, but I have given myself 3 - 5 years to learn it. I knew my limitations when discussing my project.

The appeal re: this image is that if holocaust survivor, Viktor Frankl can reach this realization, then why can't i? It's worth a go! (think Im done now)
p. grin
Posted By: bttrfly

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/02/16 07:19 PM

that's a great infographic.
ty for posting it xo
Posted By: Esame

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/03/16 12:38 AM

Hi pbetra,

Thank you for putting all the information together, it's really helpful.

I think your action plan looks great!

Originally Posted By: pbetra

- *Mind (was further developed)
Brain DUMPING - writing/journalling. doodling.



I recently read a book around this, apparently 20 minutes journaling a day (or dictating on a recorder or anything that works for you) helps build resilience, fight depression, better problem solving and seeing our situation more clearly. Amazing isn't it? Maybe that's a hidden benefit of being part of a forum like this, a happy side effect in a way?
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/04/16 08:10 AM

Originally Posted By: bttrfly
that's a great infographic.
ty for posting it xo


Hey you buttrfly (just posted 2 u)

Yes, I agree. This img really resonated w/me. It represents possibility for me I suppose laugh
Also, I am really curious about how one gets to that mindset or mind-state in such adverse situations! ( "one day!" smile )

Rest in your cocoon so you can fly really high when your are ready! Take care, p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/04/16 09:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Esame


Originally Posted By: pbetra

- *Mind (was further developed)
Brain DUMPING - writing/journalling. doodling.



I recently read a book around this, apparently 20 minutes journaling a day (or dictating on a recorder or anything that works for you) helps build resilience, fight depression, better problem solving and seeing our situation more clearly. Amazing isn't it? Maybe that's a hidden benefit of being part of a forum like this, a happy side effect in a way?




Hi Esame,
was looking for your original thread but found your replies instead (?). Guess I have been away too long - forgotten how to navigate??!! eek Will try again - Re: your post. Thanks for including! It is no wonder that this type of activity is often recommended. I agree with you - I do believe the forum plays a similar role smile

The book you read informs of the ability to get the stuff OUT from within, doesn't it? Journalling, dictating (venting at DB) offers that opportunity, it's no wonder it's effective & impactful.

=====================
Interestingly, I mentioned the weekly date with self but not the morning pages (mp). The date impacted on me b/c life & its challenges represent output. It takes 'out' (more than it puts in - or so it seems! ) grin

A weekly date was about putting back IN- doing something for oneself. And if one does that fairly regularly, then managing life challenges is improved (consistent output is not sustainable).

However, (& I am just sharing) since you mentioned journalling above, the mp are similar to journalling, but there are real differences.

1 - Time. The mps should be written on awakening (some ppl think that its silly. However, I am just describing here for info. purposes)
The author stated that as soon as you wake, to just write before doing anything else (?!)

2 - Content.
The other instruction is to not think about what you are writing - just WRITE!!! About 3 ( long hand) pages on 'whatever' comes to mind. Unlike journalling, you are not really recording an event or consciously venting feelings

You see the first thing on a morning doesn't yet 'have an event packed day.' Events are the very material you get to write about, when 'stuff' happens during the day. There are exceptions of course - that is, if you went to bed with much on your mind. The challenge is made more so b/c the writer must not 'think' too much. The idea is to 'unload' whatever junk there is lurking in the mind.

It was NOT easy for me. (some others do well). B - U - T quite frankly, the first thing I think of on a morning, is coffee! laugh

This practice has received mixed reviews, since some don't know what (!) to write because nothing is coming

One morning I even wrote something like this >> this is stupid, can't think of anything, feel like Im running a race because Im just suppose d to write whatever without thinking about it. really?!! really?? etc etc etc << You get the idea. This was out of sheer frustration.

I was NOT good at it. However, the weekly dates worked for me at that time of my life. Securing a little well deserved 'me time' for the three month period was great. cool
==============================

Getting back to your post, I noted how little one has to spend as well. 20 mins!!!' It goes to show its not 'duration, duration', but consistency EVERYDAY.

Thanks again Esame - take care, p.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 10/04/16 09:46 AM

Oh forgot - the book is Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 03:35 AM

Hi there,

Ive been lurking up to just before Thanksgiving 2016 but haven't been on since then. A lot happened - my child, "C" is currently angrier, parent passed on this year, h came back into my life after funeral & is out again. I feel so stupid - don't know why I did what I did (letting him come back).

He seemed different (he started working, seemed more settled and more like his old self) and I experienced some sort of 'restlessness' (?) after death. Then he abandoned me again - & it was almost like the same thing all over again. I say "almost" because the shock wasn't as intense, but it was still 'shock'.

He got a promotion with perks and a very professional, well educated, well connected female boss, whom he likes and who could take him to great heights. A common story from what I have been coming across these days - from others and/or reading online(it seems now that he was using me until promotion was confirmed). Sometimes, I still feel hurt although I was not entirely surprised (thankfully because of what I was exposed to here on the forums).

It really seemed like he was coming out (!!) laugh of tunnel I suppose - it seemed as if he had changed with time.

I am ok frown I guess - "been there, done that" shall we say, but for some reason, he is cruel since I am so vulnerable. He's being cruel - hurting me (& I have been frustrated re unstable work).

After the grieving, trying t o get back on track, thinking that he had changed - I recently feel an intense sense of disillusionment (because i feel as though I am getting closer & closer to 'extinction' sometimes, in spite of my efforts). *Nothing seems to be working out! I think it will eventually but it hasn't been easy ... Guess he realizes how hard it is for me & is comfortable with this. I know that if I I reaped the rewards of my labour, i woudlnt feel so vulnerable, and subsequently so disillusioned.

I just needed to vent some place safe, ok? I feel so *frustrated right now - I am not experiencing success but he is. Just venting safe place safe ...
Posted By: Westo

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 03:50 AM

So sorry to hear that your H did this to you again.

Thank God for this 'safe place' so we can vent smile
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 04:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Westo
So sorry to hear that your H did this to you again.

Thank God for this 'safe place' so we can vent smile


Thank you Westo smile Thats EXACTLY how I feel.
Don't know what many of us would do, when feeling burdened & not have outlets!!
Thanks again <3
Posted By: AJM

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 08:02 AM

Hi P. Long time no hear. I don't often come around, but did today and stumbled on your post. Sorry to hear about your parent's passing on.

It's been said that betrayal and divorce is more painful than the death of a loved one. I believe that. I've lived it. But please don't beat yourself up or compare yourself to him. You did what you did because you wanted to know. You allowed him into your life and he's not changed. Just more cruel toward you.

Later, there might be a story of some sort that goes like this, "I was very mean and cruel to my exW. Her parent had just died and I used her for my own selfish reasons" but it's not too likely. What's more likely is a story like this, "My exH used me. He was very cruel and it took me a long time and many attempts to learn that lesson. I finally gave myself the gift of freedom from him and anything he might do in my life and have been immensely happier for it."

Peace,
AJM
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 08:25 AM

Hi

Im sorry

You took the risk
Maybe he also thought he could work things out with you
Maybe it was supposed to happen this way-

Now you know, He probably wont be able to get better
not your fault- forgive yourself
just another lesson on our journey
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 10:43 AM

Originally Posted By: AJM
Hi P. Long time no hear. I don't often come around, but did today and stumbled on your post. Sorry to hear about your parent's passing on.

It's been said that betrayal and divorce is more painful than the death of a loved one. I believe that. I've lived it. But please don't beat yourself up or compare yourself to him. You did what you did because you wanted to know. You allowed him into your life and he's not changed. Just more cruel toward you.

Later, there might be a story of some sort that goes like this, "I was very mean and cruel to my exW. Her parent had just died and I used her for my own selfish reasons" but it's not too likely. What's more likely is a story like this, "My exH used me. He was very cruel and it took me a long time and many attempts to learn that lesson. I finally gave myself the gift of freedom from him and anything he might do in my life and have been immensely happier for it."

Peace,
AJM


AJM,
so nice to hear from you after all this time! Hope that you are well smile I am so grateful to have this outlet at times like this, when it feels so painful. A familiar 'e-voice' from the past is so reassuring.

He got more cruel with the prospect of 'power' I suppose, but you are right ... i will be happier for it.
I just felt that he was really changing and maybe if his prospects remained relatively modest, he would have been more grounded (clearly temp., because whatever the issue is, it needs to get out). He acquired a subtle 'over-confidence' that day. I noted an interesting smile on his face to my horror the day I realized what he did (his back was turned, but I saw him). It was one that might be of self admiration having played the chess pieces so remarkably well to the end.

I do think that if things were working out better re my own accomplishments, that I wouldn't have gotten into the rut I did. My options seem to be diminishing and 'times a ticking away'! So it all 'came down' on me at once eek I am better now and grateful to hear from you. Thanks again smile You are right, I shouldn't compare myself to him. I just thought that he did all this. has been so hurtful and now is thriving and I don't seem to have gotten anywhere. But you are right, it isn't going to do me any good anyway.

On another note, I did not know about > "betrayal, divorce & death of loved one," above but I believe it!! I think that 'people-cruelty' is always like that.

I was speaking to someone re: natural disasters and the pain and loss experienced with an earthquake for example. All of the the injuries and cries that come from below the rubble ... ppl. try to help, they uncover heavy broken pieces of concrete - they HELP with no fear or reservation. The same rubble, broken down buildings with another disaster could take place re bombing. However, if done by terriorists, it is the idea that the evil & pain is man-made and not natural, that is more painful and terrifying.

Like I said, hope you are well (you seem so!! grin ).
Again, great hearing from you AJM, I appreciate it, take care of yourself, p.
Posted By: Gordie

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 10:55 AM

P, that is so heartbreaking to think h was changing and coming back only to be betrayed again...vent away...hope you have get the support you need...
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 11:24 AM

Originally Posted By: peacetoday
Hi

Im sorry

You took the risk
Maybe he also thought he could work things out with you
Maybe it was supposed to happen this way-

Now you know, He probably wont be able to get better
not your fault- forgive yourself
just another lesson on our journey


yes I DID take the risk peacetoday cry
And I do think he was trying in his way to work things out, but I didn't think we could manage without getting help.

H was (and has been) especially adverse and defensive re counselling. He has masked his anger but make no mistake, it made him angry.

I assumed that his change could mean that he might have been ready (don't know now if he ever will be ready). He was always angry and hateful with any discussion about marriage counselling before. It is clear that in spite of the changes, the old self has resisted change!! confused Maybe it shames and embarrasses him (?) Anyway, after I brought it up during a conversation It was downhill after that!! I sensed a little divide and resentment ... this never changed until it happened again, it ended all over again eek

I do think that if his reactions are like this (after 'apparent changes), then this might be for the better. ITs easier to tolerate this with reasonably good health. However, in 10, 15 years in future, when I am older, weaker ... maybe sicker, then what? How will I cope with that baggage?

I do have to forgive myself peacetoday. This took something out of me - it has been such an emotional year.
So I echo what you wrote (thank you for 'spelling it out' ) smile > Maybe he won't get better, and it IS better this way! p.
Posted By: peacetoday

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/13/17 01:07 PM

P

Really good point about growing older and coping with a hard to deal with H

and him getting worse because he didn't resolve his issues

You may have been saved from disaster

So Now, take good care of you, grieve cry heal
get support and breathe
it will be ok
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/15/17 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: peacetoday
P

Really good point about growing older and coping with a hard to deal with H

and him getting worse because he didn't resolve his issues

You may have been saved from disaster

So Now, take good care of you, grieve cry heal
get support and breathe
it will be ok


Thank you smile
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 06/23/17 09:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Gordie
P, that is so heartbreaking to think h was changing and coming back only to be betrayed again...vent away...hope you have get the support you need...


Gordie, so sorry I missed you earlier. confused frown

Thanks for taking the time to post a reply. I really do appreciate it, as 'connections,' even through a computer monitor, makes one feel less alone during times of distress. So thank you again ... smile

It turned into a set up of some sort as the opportunities arose for him, but I'm moving on as best as I can (I may have a job opportunity soon - its not a big deal but its something if it works out!)

I hope that things are working well on your end!
p.

ps: Unlike when I first began here, I don't always have consistent internet & some things have gotten more challenging (so I am not able to frequent as I used to, but wish you all well until I return grin ).
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 12/12/17 12:35 PM

Hi Everyone

Just dropping by to wish you the best for the holidays - Not always easy, I know, but wishing you all the best.

I haven't been here much and will not be, moving forward. My situation is challenging & time consuming, esp. in this economy (as so many can relate $) BUT (!!) I'm better. I feel different grin

It hard, but Im ok. I was told that someone observed me & x-h years ago at a party - & noted that he was "emotional bully," which quite frankly surprises me - but then again, when you in, you can't see.
I think much is this 'new' feeling, relates to feeling free to be myself no matter what - And in charge of MY life.

I want the newbies to know that it gets better, whether it works out or not (but I do hope that it works out for many of you!) smile

Again, wishing you the best for the Season, however you choose to celebrate. Hope that 2018 is better smile
Posted By: job

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 12/13/17 12:20 AM

Happy Holidays to you as well. May 2018 be a far better and more promising year for you.

Stay in touch!
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 12/14/17 12:10 PM

Thank you Job - to you as well.
I will stay in touch from time to time. This forum was a life saver !

Originally Posted By: job
Happy Holidays to you as well. May 2018 be a far better and more promising year for you.

Stay in touch!
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 01/04/18 10:24 AM

best wishes for the new year everyone re: whatever you are going through - lets hope that this year be will better for you all.

I never expected to be back here so soon BUT just wanted to throw something out there. venting too...

A little reveal ...
Child C, was due to visit xH. I was surprised to learn that the visit was NOT being looked forward to. C was depressed, even angry at times. I think it was the lack of control, not having a say. Been told that father will collect him at - etc.

This surprised me, as there is so much more (!) to do with dad, great restaurants - a better time. And although things have been slowly & minimally improving for me, they are still very challenging & difficult. I can't always afford the field trips or a night to eat out etc.

The visit to H didnt materialize in the end - it was almost as though the kid 'willed' the thing eek Anyway, it 'opened my eyes' to what I have to address in future re visitation. Meanwhile, H has no idea that due to being a little overbearing before, the discomfort has grown for C (i only learned of this recently). I think he needs to see his father but am not sure how to gently coax. i asked him,C to look for the good in the visit!

First its a level road, then suddenly (!) theres a sink hole
Since then, I have discovered that due to mixed up dates, the error was my fault. I may not have checked but all roads lead to H making the error as I pointed out - with txts & quotes. I had no idea that resentment was growing as he was blaming me again.

The problem is as before, the cruelty. I feel detached from H but why does it affect me? I no longer love him - i definitely dont like him!! He is dishonest & manipulates, lies. Whats to like?

And yet, I was affected. I got instantly stupid before being able to collect my thoughts to 'defend' myself .. It must be the 'the level of attack'. H's msgs started normally enough - two parents msg-ing re child. Then all went wrong eek & the insults began. Very DISRESPECTFUL, condescending ...

I repeated the facts (instead of being quiet) before ending the conversation. He is embarrassed re his faux pas which is why i was attacked. I know.

Keeping my eye on the horizon
At this time though, I need to continue on this (good), although unknown, road.
i don't need distractions - but they will come because we have a child together.

Are there alternatives to corresponding with H? Has anyone had a 'go between' work for them? I am considering avoiding ALL contact with him if this continues (2nd time after about 6 months). I need this time for myself (which is also a problem for H). It was alright for me to be ignored & isolated on his terms but now that I need the space, that too is an issue (but thats another story! )

Do I have to maintain contact with him? (just planning here) what do you do when you have children & must maintain contact with these 'ppl.'?

I am soooooo tired of this. Just when things seems to be working out, just a LITTLE.
I just dont need this.

Again, best wishes for 2018.
hope things work out just in the way you need ..
pbetra
Posted By: job

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 01/04/18 10:51 AM

I am so sorry that you are having some issues w/your xh. I wouldn't involve a third party. Why? Because your business needs to stay between the two of you and you certainly don't want the "he said/she said" business around town, even though you may trust the "third party".

The only contact you should have w/him is about the children or bills that he should be paying. You don't have to "maintain" contact w/him just to play nice...state your facts when it concerns your children/bills and leave it be. Document if he gets nasty and keep your emails and text messages and if it becomes too much, you may need to let your lawyer know about it.

If you are still allowing his actions/statements to get to you, then you haven't detached enough.

If you need time to yourself, then take it...you don't need to tell him that you are going NC...just do it. Actions speak louder than words. Answer he texts if they are necessary and/or an emergency or require an answer...otherwise, there is not need to respond to them unless you think you need to. Take back your control over your life. As long as he knows that he can get a reaction out of you, he will continue this behavior.
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 01/05/18 07:45 AM

Hello again job,

thanks for getting back to me & as always offering a concise look at the overall situation.

detachment
I woke today feeling better & you are right. There is no way that my detachment can be complete.
At first, I likened it to if someone insulted me badly (!) ... cussed me on a street corner - that would upset me.
In this case tho, it distracted me (!!), and although I felt 'ok' I guess- consciously (consciously numb? unable to process what was happening immediately), it was the reaction of my body that did the 'talking'!

In both experiences ( 1st - just under 6 months ago), when we communicated, the physiological reaction was one of 'anxiousness' /anxiety' ... until I could gage & gain some composure. And yet I felt 'calm enough' in my (conscious) head, although my body was doing its own thing. Strange - the anxiety

I didn't think about it re detachment & him, since I do not want him& I am soooo turned off!
His bullying temperament is still there with the one-way street (my way) attitude eek
Now that I have had time, can reflect, rebuild, I see that there was a threshold I dare not cross. That's NO relationship (And that too, is why even C does not "relax" with him).
However, there clearly is 'residue' re the detachment component ... & this has me thinking again.
( Peace of mind is sooo 'sexy' & very additive ) grin smile

3rd party & management re future contact
I will not involve a third party. I see what you are saying and am so glad I checked here in my moment of confusion.

I will also have to be more vigilant. I had stopped complete contact with him as I needed to focus on my new path. This probably upset him. The recent contact & the *one before, about *6 months both started well enough. So my guard was down because of time spent away from each other. Then out of nowhere, the 'jab' emerged. Again, he may be upset because i corresponded on my terms as I needed to (just as he did when he wanted to) ... he even got upset & insinuated at that *time that I'll "be in touch when i want the money"

Well, I figured if he doesn't know his responsibility, I can't remind him until things settle. He's an adult - this is something he should know!

Alone with Self-doubt
I never bothered him (I think he expected me to). I told myself that I would manage & others reassured me that I would be fine. I had absolutely NO confidence re this assumption, but moved forward anyway. I sacrificed much re myself but child, C, was taken care of. And was lucky to have a few really good supportive ppl later on.

Sooooooo that may also have peeved him in that he expected me to plead ... beg (due to desperation), but I didn't need to hear him anymore. And I really couldn't handle any crap & also as the holidays approached - I just wanted it to be special although it would be modest (& It WAS wonderful !!!)

I am trying to fill my world with GOOD karma ... (so he may have had it 'stored up' for me laugh ). Many can give what they can't take.

Documentation rules!
I will do as you suggested. Document. Its a great idea to document & more so re a lawyer if necessary in future, as you mentioned. Thank YOU job! I have even copied the msgs already (!!) & will continue if he choses 'to start civil & convert to cruel'.

Take care & thanks as always
pbetra
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 01/29/18 08:33 AM

Hi there,

Possible?
I was wondering, Is it possible for H to return to "the tunnel" after all this time?

No Contact & Anger
I have the 'NC' approach re him. This seems to have made him VERY ANGRY recently - re *visit, below. It is as though he starts the day wanting to pick a fight (through txt msgs). He appears to be trying to find character flaws with me (to trap?? dunno ..)

I was told that because I 'moved on with my life' recently, that this angered him. He did not realize how much I moved on until not long ago.

*The Impromptu Visit & The Big 'Reveal'
i did not expect him. xh happily popped over one day without notifying me. He was a bit surprised. The 'new' problem started with that ...

We were not close of course, & more so since the separation as expected. Exchanged msgs when necessary. He was doing his thing & i was trying HARD as you know! laugh but that visit, revealing some differences in my life, changed much re him.
After the visit, he began initiating dialog (not interest - Im may still be too old! grin & of course this need to communicate was in "interest of child", c) - but I didn't respond as he wanted. i also did not accept a recent invitation because he still projects his mother's behaviour (should something happen), is consistently suspicious of me and punishes me for it. So I AVOID - i dont need it!!! He was persistent about that invitation & not happy about the 'no-acceptance' .

Weird
The persistence continued, and eventually he stopped (as I was not encouraging anyway). Recently though, the msgs are 'seething-raging'. Nothing to implicate himself, but he may be angry that I am not 'complying'. Something is very, very different. confused
He continues to get pity from a few people re what a b* Ive been & is really good with the lies. Clearly, very smart & charming.

Possible at this LATE stage?
Could that be possible tho? A return to tunnel at this stage?!!? eek Sometimes, i dont know why I feel that he's up to something. Its a strange, subtle but strong (anger) ... if that makes any sense
Posted By: job

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 01/29/18 10:40 AM

Is it possible that he never left the tunnel? Sounds like he's still in replay and doesn't want "mom" to be too far away.

If your radar is up, chances are he is up to something...time will tell. Keep the focus on you!
Posted By: pbetra

Re: mlc 'run' (running its course) re mlc rut 2 - 01/29/18 12:00 PM

Will do Job, thanks.

i just assumed that he was getting 'better' since he got what he wanted. I shouldn't have assumed. Felt safe that way I suppose, just getting on with things.

He went, I moved on, letting my guard down.
My focus will be me - but I feel that I need to be careful ...
Just got me by surprise ...
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