So a bad weekend with s13, perhaps b/c of the death of his grandmother, and the funeral held on Saturday. Perhaps just the emotions of everyone around him. Who knows?
S13 slept 18 hours Saturday/Saturday night. He woke up and was more of a problem than usual. Took money (he thought I had his money from a few weekends ago), disobedient, aggressive, etc.
When I dropped him off at W's place, I texted her "good luck". She texted back "remember, we all grieve in different ways." Zen wisdom from my W? I wasn't expecting it.
OK, I'm not happy with my direction right now. The winter has been my excuse, but with warmer weather this next week its time for a change. So here is my "to-do" list for this week:
- get to the exercise room at least 2x this week, and also just go for an extended walk;
- submit an application for serving at my church. I don't care where, maybe try something completely different than where I normally serve.
I took a look at your post since I was back on tonight. I am really happy to read your To Do list. Service is the best way to lose yourself and thus find yourself. I even find that when I walk out of my class (I teach a class at a college), I have this strange sense of feeling free, and then I realize that it's because, for 1.5 hours, I was totally focused on the students and our class and never once thought about my situation or my sorrows. And that everyone in my class just saw me as me and not as anything to do with my sorrows.
I was having so much trouble with my son too. I still do, sometimes. I try to keep remembering that the ones who need love the most make themselves the most difficult to love. We can't expect much different, but try to think about it the way you think about when he's sick. You can't take away the flu, but you can be such a wonderful calming presence while he's sick. You can make him soup and rub his head and sit nearby reading, and he will always remember that sickness with joy later precisely because you were there for him when life was hard. I'm sure he'll feel that way too about the way you've been such a good father to him during this crisis. Maybe all your love will help him process all his pain that much better and break the cycle of MLC for his generation! It's a tragedy but that's the silver lining.
Would your son let you read to him before bed? Mine loves The Chronicles of Prydain and of course the Chronicles of Narnia, and I found that both of those helped him to put his mind toward being strong and brave and loving goodness, that has helped a lot. Now we are reading Treasure Island. My daughter always falls asleep when I read to him and then we look at her snoring and feel happy!
Check out rejoice ministries if you are wanting a church influence, I could not get through this without those daily e-mails.
Ouch....that feels great. Yes, I took an extended walk yesterday, and today was the first time I had stepped into the exercise room since my spinal surgery a few months ago. Both days it felt like I coughed up about 3 months of winter sitting in my lungs, but then I settled into my stride and everything felt soooo good.
So I had lunch with W's closest sister/confidante (SiL), and her husband. Their house is going thru foreclosure, and I have a bit of experience in dealing with this, and so I offered them some free help. I was still a bit off-kilter from the past weekend's MiL's funeral (little contact with W), and so I was concerned going in that I would snoop by asking SiL questions about W. But I did not, and kept it all business.
SiL is understandably going thru a really difficult time with having her mother die at the same time as receiving foreclosure papers. I kept it light, gave their 2 big dogs lotsa affection (I was covered in dog hair by the end, but I loved it - I miss having dogs), but at the end I could see they both seemed overwhelmed by the job in front of them, trying to renegotiate their mortgage, and stop the foreclosure. I told them I would help as much as they needed me.
Divorce Care last night covered the topic of 'Forgiveness'. Yeah, I still need some work on that.
Hey Wet,
Something alot of people around here don't know is that 3 years ago I lost the ability to walk and stand I had an event at my T10 level of my spine.
3 years later I am just beginning to stand again, not sure if I'll ever walk again.
So you have had spinal surgery, and need to get back into exercising.
Do it. I would do almost anything to walk again, no matter the pain, discomfort or effort.
Keep it up and don't get lazy.
Hey Wet,
Something alot of people around here don't know is that 3 years ago I lost the ability to walk and stand I had an event at my T10 level of my spine.
3 years later I am just beginning to stand again, not sure if I'll ever walk again.
So you have had spinal surgery, and need to get back into exercising.
Do it. I would do almost anything to walk again, no matter the pain, discomfort or effort.
Keep it up and don't get lazy.
Wow, Jack. Had no idea that you faced this life-changing event. You have my utmost respect in facing this challenge head on.
Thanks Wonka, I have two boys that I need to show that even if your holding a crap hand you'd better be able to bluff and play it out. : )
Jack is absolutely correct in stating that you need to do the exercises. The longer you delay, the longer it will take to fully recover and get your strength back in the spinal area where you had surgery.
Jack, hang in there. It may take you a while, but you will walk again. I have that much faith in the power of exercising, healing and determination.
Jack, thank you for sharing your inspiring back-story on your spine, and how important walking really is. It gives me a reminded appreciation for what I do have. Yes, I was worried about if I got back on the exercise machines whether my balance would work. It did, and the chemicals kicked in to remind me of how much I enjoy working out.
Except, dang that s13. He stole my ear buds. I enjoy listening to 80's music while I work out. So I need to go to the store tomorrow to get me some new ear buds. S13!!!!!
My Friday funny line about lawyers, comes from the new show 'Better Call Saul', where Saul, a lawyer is asked if all lawyers are idiots. He replies:
"Only half of us are idiots. The other half are crooks!"
Wet
I wanted to ask you ... how do you like that Divorce Care class ... helpful?
Last year the W signed up for it .. I think she went twice before she realized its to help people more of the LBS variety ... not so much a MLC'r/WAS type ... I never asked her nor did she share but I seen the book and was curious.
Hi CaliGuy, yes, I find Divorce Care very helpful. For example last week's topic was on "Forgiveness", and though I had heard it before, I still picked up some new things this time around.
And having people there that you can talk to, and hear what they are going thru is also really helpful. It seems there is always someone worse off than me - last week a woman showed up who is married 21 years, 1 son, and her husband just told her that he wants a divorce and a sex change operation. Owwww, the pain she was in.
In some ways Wet, she'll find it easier that he wanted out AND a sex change. Often easier when there isn't another person, although just as painful. Just tends to not be for so long from what I've seen.
What were some of the nuggets you gleaned from the group and discussion? I'm curious
AJ
Thanks AJ. I'll get my notes from Divorce Care and share those later.
First, I wanted to check in and let y'all know how I did on my goal setting:
Submit application to volunteer at my church - I think I met my goal here. I sent an email to the senior Pastor in charge of the caring ministries at our church. We recently lost 2 of the table leaders for Divorce Care (to marriage), and so I asked her to consider me to help here.
But the Pastor was on vacation, and will not be back until next week, but at least I put my willingness out there.
Exercise 2x at Exercise room, and an extended walk. Failed. I planned on going to the exercise room yesterday, but did not. But I have a good excuse?
I bought my s13 a basketball and there is a court a short walk from the apartment. So I planned on spending some time with s13 playing hoops this weekend.
But then my foolishness kicked in. S13 has not turned in 8 of his homework assignments from the past 2 weeks. And he really wanted me to play with him "so he could teach me how to play 1-on-1". So I made my playing basketball with s13 contingent on his first finishing his homework.
Before I picked up s13 on Friday, I asked W to make sure he had all of school stuff so that we could get his homework caught up. It turns out that s13 did not do this - he left his school ipad at W's place, and this was what he needed for finishing most of his school work. So I was not able to go and play hoops with my son.
I hope I learned this lesson, that I am only hurting myself if I make my exercising based on what someone else does. Time to pick myself up and set me sights on the next week.
Oddly, I was just thinking about you earlier today, Wet. I was on my way to church and heard a song by Lonestar called No News. For whatever reason it reminded me to follow up with you.
Glad you got your application in. From what I can see above, you are batting .500 for goals.
I've found that exercise is a lot like diet - I may not have reached all my goals (cut back on fat, salt, fun stuff) today, but tomorrow I get another shot at it. If today I had 3 goals and I hit 2 of them (satisfactorily) then tomorrow I'll try for that 3 again. And me being the dummy that I am, I keep at something until I either have a bloody nose and pass out or until I achieve what I'm after.
You might be able to relate, no?
AJ
Hey AJ, the 'No News' video is hilarious. Thanks for thinking of me, and your encouragement.
So I had both s13 and d17 (who I rarely see/talk to) yesterday. D17 asked if she could download something for $10, and I told her "of course". Then she said that s13 always gets games and things from me, and so she expressed some jealousy over my r with her brother. It's nothing I can deal with right now.
We watched the funny movie 'Shallow Hal' with Jack Black and Gwyneth Paltrow. I was happy to see the kids enjoy a movie with a good message, that real beauty comes from inside a person. I told my kids that "I was lucky, your mom was beautiful on both the inside and outside." S13 scoffed.
Thanks Gerda for suggesting I read to my s13. I did a good job teaching my 3 daughters about the Bible thru Bible studies and lessons. But s13 has slipped thru the cracks. So I started reading the book of Daniel to him. It went well.
So I took the kids to a restaurant for dinner to celebrate 'Pi Day'. The kids couldn't agree on a pie flavor, so I texted W to be the tie-breaker (we would get the whole pie, and it would go back to W's with them.) W texted back "strawberry cheesecake", which the restaurant didn't carry. We had some playful back and forth on the fact that a cheesecake is not a pie, but it's cooked in the same tin as a pie, etc.
The waiter was a funny guy. And when I spilled my iced tea, I told him "s13 spilled my tea." S13 looked horrified at my lie. But the waiter played it up. This caused a few chuckles at our table.
But then after the meal I took both kids back to W's place. S13 to get his homework done (8 missing assignments in the last 2 weeks), and d17 b/c she can only sleep at W's place. W hoped both kids would sleep over at my place. D17 reported W was out at a bar last night with her friends from high school.
So I am discouraged I didn't get more time with my kids this weekend. And too much alone today has me thinking too much (the hamster wheel of my brain running at full speed.) I can't wait to get back to work tomorrow.
...What were some of the nuggets you gleaned from the (Divorce Care) group and discussion? I'm curious
AJ
AJ, Divorce Care is a nation-wide 13 week program to help those going thru separation or divorce. A person can start at any point of the program, and a number of us have continued going though we have gone to all of the sessions.
The "new" things I learned at the last Divorce Care on 'Forgiveness' were:
- the alternative to forgiveness is bitterness. And it is easy to choose bitterness b/c we feel we are entitled, we are justified to feel angry/hurt/bitter by what our ex has done. Self-pity is also very compelling;
- Forgiveness is a process. 3 stages they provided to help see if you are moving along the forgiveness line are:
1. I won't bring it up;
2. I won't gossip about it to others. Included in this is wishing bad karma/bad things to happen to your ex (he/she deserves to get an std, etc.)
3. I won't dwell on it anymore (kinda sounds like detaching, right?)
And finally, don't tell your ex that you forgive them. They may not feel they have done anything wrong, and then it only makes you look foolish/self-righteous. Wait for the right time on something like this. Otherwise, your actions should show your forgiveness.
Doing the whole divorce mess, I couldn't wait for the work week and it went by so quickly! The weekends just dragged by. I had the kids most of the time, as I do now. I needed to keep busy and not focus onmy pain. Now though, I am back to normal...I dread Mondays and long to relax on the weekends.
All comes back to how it should be.
kat
I took the same path as Kat. Kept so busy I couldn't see straight while I processed. It was therapeutic, but getting off that train has proven a challenge. At least gracefully
It's nothing I can deal with right now
Um, when then? The thing is, time waits for nobody. Your kids are looking to you to see how to handle things. They obviously have their opinion about their mom. One that you may not have played into, but they have one nonetheless. My guess is its not favorable. Be on the lookout for some signs of bitterness from them. They'll need you to help them process it.
I was reading another news nugget that made me think of you, Wet. The story of Sir Paul McCartney's ex. She's a piece of work to say the least. It also reminded me of my pastor friend who's wife recently did the same thing claiming similar reasons. There were a few others that came to mind.
It made me think about the differences between the way the world thinks and the way a Christian should think. We live in the world, so it's not easy. There are those that think God has changed his mind about things. Or that the world isn't the same place. I smiled when I got to that place, Wet. Know why? Because it reminded me how small I really am. It reminded me that although I have every reason to be bitter and callous, I fought against that and feel like I am well on my way to not being that bitter person. I could easily be that. There's plenty of fodder for that cannon. Even all these years later.
What I struggled with is the old vs. the new ways. The old ways - stone the person that did that. Both of them. The new? Forgive them. I certainly couldn't cast that first stone, my friend. Not for the same reasons, but just the same.
Don't wait to deal with things, Wet. Don't wait to live your life. At least, don't wait for anything other than figuring it out. You are trying to change things. Keep trying. Some will work out and some won't, but keep trying. And don't wait to be a father and deal with things with your kids if you need to. The world will keep spinning and your family needs you to be that guide. I think you're doing that, but trying to encourage you to continue.
You are slowly becoming yourself again. Keep at it. It takes far longer than you'd like, I know. You are respecting her wishes to walk away and live her life the way she thinks she should. That's what you should do, amigo. There is no reason to be bitter although there are times to be angry (and measured) if the situation warrants it.
Don't wait, Wet. Keep doing what you're doing and keep an eye out for the times with the kids when you need to act or otherwise guide.
And keep in mind, it's not that good things will happen to you like there's a magical fairy repaying you for kindness. But you do it because that's who you are. Keep that in focus and you'll be more than OK in all aspects.
Don't get me wrong. I disagree with you waiting for your W. I do respect your choice but I think there's more to the reason than you sometimes admit. I suspect some of it is because you are not sure where or what to do otherwise. But I'm not walking in your shoes this time around. That's for you to decide how to do that and forgive her. And you'll do what you do in your time.
Food for thought.
AJ
Why didn’t anyone tell me the length of time MLC takes??!!
I’m joking, I’m joking. Allow me to vent and journal. First, my back-story – flashback one year ago, St. Patrick’s Day 2014. (Screen is filled with wavy lines, focus is lost…)
Last St. Paddy’s day, W called me at work to invite me to her place for a corned beef and cabbage meal. I said yes. Then she tells me she just broke up with the “special” man in her life. She was crying, I went right over and gave her a back massage. We talked a bit. Our dog was also put to sleep on this day. W called this "the worst day in her life" (I didn’t understand). This is the last time W asked me to ML with her. We did not (another story for another day).
Fade back to last night. I was getting ready for bed, thinking back to last year, perhaps a hope that we might ML. And just like a movie, at that moment my phone went off, W just texted me. She asked if I wanted to take s13 and d17 out for dinner today, on St. Paddy’s day. With a bit of disappointment, I asked her what she was thinking.
W now is watching her father one day a week. And since she would not be around, she thought I might enjoy taking the kids out for dinner. I agreed.
Now I have learned to NEVER get our kids involved in my marriage. I never ask the kids about their mother. It’s nothing I want for them to be involved in.
But d17 was chatty tonight. I mentioned I was glad to make sure that the kids had a good meal to eat tonight (we ate at a mostly fruit and vegetable buffet). D17 decided to share that most nights they make themselves dinner, as “mom is almost never home.”
Now I know that last spring and summer W was out most nights on dating site dates. During this time s13 was failing most of his classes, and I thought the two were connected. Now this year, s13 was doing much better in school, and I assumed it was my W being around, and more involved in his schoolwork. Now I see I was wrong, s13 is doing better all on his own.
D17 also shared that a few nights ago W got her 2000 red Jaguar back from the person repairing it. W was at the home of her close friend (who recently learned she had cancer with a poor prognosis, her husband did the repairs). D17 said that W came home “drunk”.
OK, to make a long story longer, I want to explain why I am disappointed. I thought/hoped W was making some progress away from her previous dating every night lifestyle to something where the kids were more important to her. I saw s13 was doing better in school, and thought W was home more and helping him more. I was wrong on this.
The drinking? This is all new. And we have friends whose mother died at the hands of a drunk driver. I don’t have evidence W drove home drunk, but it raises some questions in my mind. Dang, I wanted this to be getting better, but it seems to be just all staying the same.
You do realize that MLC can last for years right? No joking. My ex is still in his fog, doesn't get how his actions affected everyone. It has been nearly nine years since the earth opened up and swallowed me whole.
This is something she has to do. You can't speed it up,do it for her or help. She will have to hit rock bottom before anything gets better. Mostly she probably doesn't even realize she is a mess.. This is not for the faint of heart.
Something to consider, would you be wiling to wait for 9 years? Would you start living your life or just play the waiting game?
kat
OK, to make a long story longer, I want to explain why I am disappointed. I thought/hoped W was making some progress away from her previous dating every night lifestyle to something where the kids were more important to her. I saw s13 was doing better in school, and thought W was home more and helping him more. I was wrong on this.
The drinking? This is all new. And we have friends whose mother died at the hands of a drunk driver. I don’t have evidence W drove home drunk, but it raises some questions in my mind. Dang, I wanted this to be getting better, but it seems to be just all staying the same.
From where I sit, she isn't being a parent. She is trying to have BOTH the single lifestyle with no responsibilities, AND, having her kids "around" so she still looks like a good mother.
That's a lot of cake you are serving her.
Imo, this is a critical time for your D and especially your son. Young men and women need good, strong male presence in their lives.
You are the best person to be that presence... You are their father. It's time, imo, to show them that man.
Time to file, going for 80/20 custody, that's 80% to YOU, btw....
You don't know what will happen in the future, none of us do, but at the moment...? She is being irresponsible as all h3ll at a time when your kids need positive role models, accountability and I'm not seeing either from her.
We are all here to try to save our M's...
but comes a time when the needs of the many....our kids, and, ourselves, outweigh the ideal of saving the M.It's time, Wet.
Let her go.
Thanks AJ, Kat and T^2, you've given me some things to think about. I'll check in later.
but it seems to be just all staying the same
One more to consider... Things on her end are staying the same. You and the kids are not. Your kids are doing their best to grow up. To reconcile the past life they knew with the new life they don't yet.
You are starting to see "things" that previously you were perhaps unwilling to see. You have and are changing, Wet. Becoming more realistic about what you see. Trying new things. Beginning to change, albeit kicking and screaming the whole way
Was reading the other day about the life of David. Ever read about his life? He was destined to be king. To be a great king. Ever hear what happened with his kids? With his family? Why he did what he did and how he felt about it? Wasn't an easy trip, that's for sure.
I was thinking about my own journey with this MLC mess. And how I didn't want to "see" what was going on. Or how it was going to turn out. The ups the downs, the hairpin turns. Wondering what it was all about. Wondering what my part was going to be.
What I thankfully didn't wonder about was what I needed to be. What I was destined to be for my family, friends, colleagues, my church, and my God. I knew what my priorities were from the beginning and in what order. While I waited to gain perspective and "see" things for how they really were, I knew my priorities and I stuck with them. My ex was never my first or second priority, Wet. Not since the beginning, but she was the source of much of my sorrow. Until she wasn't anymore. I took over that role because I wasn't willing to be realistic. I fought it tooth and nail because I thought that was what I was needing to do. Far longer than I really needed to.
On this site, 25 once mentioned how she hated that she wasted as much of her life worrying about her H and what was going to happen. I didn't think that would happen to me. At the time anyway. Now? I let it go on longer than any man should. I don't regret the time, but I do know that I let it go longer than it rightfully should have gone on. I'm just slow like that sometimes
But I also know me. I make a commitment and I stick to it come hell or high water. I don't walk away until I'm done. Being able to see things realistically and calling time of death was new to me. It didn't come naturally.
What I learned is that reality is what it is. My perception may or may not change, with or without all the answers. That's my choice, but I did find that I much prefer seeing things as they are. No rose colored glasses.
A few more items to consider while pondering.
Peace,
AJ
I think that was/is the thing that is hard to deal with .. the time factor. There is no time frame on this, its not a months kind of thing .. talking years and even at that there is no guarantee that they will ever come out of the fog/tunnels.
Your comment of "but it seems to be just all staying the same" ... I am curious, do you find yourself just trying to wait this out? I think for some time I did ... then I realized .. well .. I might aswell try to use this time to do things I have wanted to do .. in a way I GAL'd before I knew what that meant. Might be time to really change things up and see if you get a different result as the books suggest.
Thing is Wet .. when and if they ever come out, they will not be the same, we will not be the same. Its all going to be new regardless. I think the best thing one can do is to rebuild themselves into a person that when you look into the mirror you know ... ok .. I had a bunch thrown at me, but I handled it with grace, showed my children how to face a hurricane, they see it .. from what I read they are facing it and dealing with it too. (Maybe they are getting this from you) The W is out in the fog, lost, no one can lead her ... she has to process this alone ... I think in my case her just knowing I was always there was hurting her and not allowing her to her own journey. Its by far the hardest event I have ever dealt with in my life, harder even to let go ... not sure if I have done that completely to be honest, but I do know the rope is not nearly as heavy as it once felt. I have a feeling you can relate.
I am a good person. I deserve to be treated better than this.
Words of Affirmation – not to someone else (for a change). But for myself. This morning’s men’s group breakfast was helpful, along with all of the ideas y’all have recently given me.
I tried calling my W this morning, but she did not answer. I wanted to talk to her (w/o judgment or accusation), and with the new communication skills I am working on, to see if we could talk about what our children need, and what is best for them. The source of our discussion is d17 recently telling me W is not around much, and my understanding that s13 and d17 need a parent who is around.
The complications on any decision involving who is take care of the youngest 2 children are these: d17 will choose to live with her mother if all other things are equal. She may even live with W if they have to share a bed in a small place. W’s current place has 3 bedrooms, my apartment has 2 br’s. W’s place is a couple of hundred bucks more expensive. If I take over primary physical custody of s13 and d17, it will reduce and perhaps eliminate the child support I pay to W. I pay all of the rent at the apartment where I now live, and d20 lives with me, so any change will affect her – but she has 2 jobs and going to school, so she is the one who is most able to handle any change. My current apartment lease ends at the end of May.
So W a few weeks ago brought up the idea that I take over her 3 br place for the summer going into the fall (so s13 can go to the same school.) When I called my W this morning, I was hoping we could agree to allow me to move into her place more quickly.
I really want to discuss the issues that y’all recently brought up. But today, I took a day off from work to watch the opening day of the NCAA men’s college basketball tournament. So I’m going back to watch some fun hoops. I hope everyone enjoys the day.
I am a good person. I deserve to be treated better than this.
Clap Clap Clap!!!
When I discovered that last Feb/March or so, I figured that even if I didn't deserve better,
I wanted better, for my kids and myself...
It is still a heartbreaking thing though, no matter how you slice it. Expect a variety of emotions to arise...gotta feel them, and then feel through them, it's the way through to the other side.
I spoke with my W earlier today. It was an unpleasant reminder that W and I have poor communication skills together. So W called me, and I asked about s13, some light talk, ending with W telling me out of the blue that if I want s13 until he turns 18, then I can have him.
Then I asked W about taxes. Last year we had a disagreement about taxes, b/c we could not agree on who received the deductions for our youngest 3 kids. We ended up filing a joint tax return to avoid the fight.
So I asked W if she wanted to file our taxes jointly again – and she scoffed “no way.” I wasn’t going to fight, I just wanted an agreement. So I asked her ok, we have to agree on who gets the deductions for our kids, what if you get the deductions for 2 of the kids, and I will take 1 of them (the 3 youngest are who we need the agreement on). I thought I could avoid the disagreement by proposing this.
But she would have none of it. She said “I get all 3 of the kids b/c I took care of them”. I reminded her that I provide a monthly support payment, as well as having s13 every weekend and holidays, and that splitting this up 2 for her/1 for me was fair.
Now this is when W brought up an odd argument, she said she should get the deductions for s13 and d17, but that d18 gets her own deduction. D18 worked part-time at a minimum wage job for little over 2 months last year, and she doesn’t need to file a tax return. So again, I am trying to avoid a fight on this, so I told W I would negotiate with d18 on this. But W would not agree.
I tried to explain to W that the difference for her income of having 2 or 3 deductions wouldn’t matter. She got mad and hung up on me. I did not have the chance to speak with W about our kids.
As I look back at our M, I see our problems in talking with each other. W and I did not have many fights, mainly b/c we both avoided talking about difficult issues. The fact that I waited until today to bring this up is an example of this. We both are annoyed with each other right now, and so maybe this is heading to court sooner rather than later.
I hope this lawyer joke brings you a smile:
Q: Why does the law society prohibit sex between lawyers and their clients?
A: To prevent clients from being billed twice for what is essentially the same service.
I am grateful to everyone who has posted. Thanks.
I did want to specifically respond to AJ's March 16th post. Initially, I think it is interesting that AJ, it seems that you are finding a number of people of faith who are in your life. From the sidelines it looks like to me that God is working on you for something more.
AJ, you also mentioned "...It made me think about the differences between the way the world thinks and the way a Christian should think. We live in the world, so it's not easy."
Here is where I think I am making real progress. Now don't tell anyone (shhhh,
) but one of the key reasons I have not yet filed for divorce is the "duty" or "obligation" (words which were raised here before) I feel towards my W to make sure she come back to her relationship with God. I was praying throughout the day for my W (and kids) and that she grow in her in faith and knowledge of Jesus.
My Pastor friend yesterday helped me to see some problems with my thinking with this. I am putting too much on my own shoulders, and I am not focusing on my own life. I can pray for my W. But I can't save her. That's not my responsibility. Yes, it's that free will thing.
You know, I view life as a laboratory, see what works. Try and do more of what works, and less of what doesn't. And seeing my W with no progress over the past year hurt me. I trusted God heard my prayers, and that He MUST be doing something in my W's life. But nothing was happening/working, so it's time for a change. So I've changed my prayers for my W. Now just a simple prayer in the morning for more faith for her. And pretty much that's it.
And a good by-product for me of praying less for my W is that I think about her less, which helps with the detaching. That's where I am today.
Wet
I get the whole praying for the W thing, I think I have prayed a few times a day for over a year for my own. Listening and looking for answers I have found some here and there, signs if you will. Things have to happen in their own time, If God returned my MLC'd W back when I prayed for him to do so ... well we all can imagine the disaster that would have followed ... I think its Jack who said something to the effect that God may not give us what we want but gives us what we need. I also recently heard a sermon where the pastor said he had prayed for something for 35 years till it was granted, and looking back, it was the correct time. Not saying we should all wait 35 years .. but the message was clear to me, in due time He has it under control and we must just give it to Him, trust in Him.
When I went to confession for the first time a few months ago I confessed my sins (Becoming a Catholic over the past year), the ones I could remember and asked forgiveness for those and the ones I could not recall, after I told the priest about my situation, my coming to faith was not to save the M, win my W back ... was for me ... but like you I pray for her to return and for her to save her R with God. My priest gave me this simple phrase ... "Do your best and let God do the rest" took me a few weeks to really 'get it' ... I gave her and my M up to God, there is little I could do with either so giving that up was a huge weight off my shoulders, let God sort it out, let him work ... while I continued to work and focus on myself.
Thanks Caliguy, you are on an interesting journey as well. Hmmm, waiting 35 years? No thank you (grin).
Jack may have said it, but I think it was first said by the Rolling Stones:
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you just might find
you get what you need
So I picked up s13. W was not around, she was taking her car to get it repaired (again). No chance to talk with her about anything.
I went and played basketball with s13, and I am discouraged. I've been to the exercise room 2x this week, and I thought I had more strength in my arms. But I can't run or be mobile. I am going to take this as another goal - make a free throw by my birthday in June.
There was an attractive maroon haired woman at the court with her son. I have seen her around the exercise room last fall. Perhaps another day, I can start up a friendship... Not today though.
Yeah, Wet. Feeling the weight of that responsibility to bring our spouse "back" even if not to a relationship with us was...crushing and not mine. For some, they would view that as controlling
A fine line between responsibility, caring and controlling to be sure.
For the taxes - my lawyer made it a point to get the order a particular way. Why? To ensure that I would get more of the deductions over time than my ex. I had 50/50 custody though so it was pretty cut and dry that it had to happen.
As I look back at our M, I see our problems in talking with each other. W and I did not have many fights, mainly b/c we both avoided talking about difficult issues. The fact that I waited until today to bring this up is an example of this. We both are annoyed with each other right now, and so maybe this is heading to court sooner rather than later.
So I wonder. Perhaps a learning moment? Any judgment on whether or not this approach was a good thing for 22 years? I mean, it seemed to work for the duration of the relationship, right? But something changed before you changed this.
Might also be good to get some agreement in place before it becomes an issue next year.
And S13 - did you get her to sign right there when she offered? She can have the deductions if you have son till he's 18?
AJ
OK, is it time for the divorce? W is having a bad day. I sent a text to her to let her know I am bringing s13 back to her place (we had a good weekend together).
W sends me a few texts, all bad news - d17 has received 2 rejection letters from colleges she applied to. And W tells me d17 is getting really nervous. Now this is where I am really good for the family. I am a good calm voice for everyone. D17 is a straight 'A' student. I know she will get into a really good school, and the fact that she applied to top schools that did not accept her is not a reason for concern. I will call her later to let her know I understand what she is going thru, and try and help her to see everything will work out.
So W is upset by this. Then she sends me a series of texts letting me know her car (a 2000 red Jag) "fell apart". S13 mentioned the alert message her car was giving, when she took it to have it looked at. I don't think it is a big deal, but nothing is easy to fix on this car. But I texted her back 'Cr#p' to let her know I was sorry.
So then she texts me that she was planning on taking the kids driving out east during spring break to visit some of the colleges d17 has applied to. But now they can't b/c her car is broke. They were also going to visit d18 on this trip.
But then 10 minutes later W texts me a question "do I have life insurance yet." Now this may seem innocent enough. But this was my last chip I was willing to give W if she would sign the divorce stipulation. I think the message is clear, W is ready for our divorce.
I am not ready to file for divorce. At least today. I especially don't want to talk about this when W is emotional and having a bad day.
So I haven't responded to W's text asking about the life insurance - btw, I haven't had life insurance for 20 years, so there is nothing urgent about the topic.
Anyone care to share an opinion on whether and how I should respond to W's text on what may be the last topic of dispute to our divorce agreement?
When is she going to have a good day I wonder?
Anyone care to share an opinion on whether and how I should respond to W's text on what may be the last topic of dispute to our divorce agreement?
That depends. Is that all that stands between you and the divorce being final? Between you and being free?
If it is, I don't see how you could not do what you agreed to. Not doing what you said would not be a good thing for you. And it would be controlling from her perspective, if I had to guess.
And Kat, I wouldn't hold my breath. Even if she does, she isn't likely to tell Wet. All he'll see is the train wreck; that's all she'll show him, assuming there is more.
AJ
I meant that I see wet constantly waiting. It will be until this happens, heck maybe even until s13 is s18. Who cares if she is having a bad day, do what needs to be done and then how you feel based on how she is now and not how she was or hopes she will be.
Sometimes I think those of us that have gone through this just want to help those in it, get through it, quit pussy footing around and move on to a better life. Because really it isn't a whole lot of fun putting your whole life on hold while your WAW is out sleeping with someone else. I know this has to be done on your time line and you will get there when you do. Sometimes you just have to go through that heck, all the way through to get the lesson learned.
Back to you guys.
kat
Thanks Kat and AJ, hmmmm, "stop pussyfooting around and move on to a better life" and "Is that all that stands between you and the divorce being final? Between you and being free?"
Yes, I did not call W or text her back on the life insurance issue (W may be signaling to me that she is ready to sign the divorce papers if I get life insurance and name her as the beneficiary).
I did text W this morning to let her know that s13 did not turn in a major assignment, and it has to be in by Friday. W was happy to hear that s13 is enjoying playing basketball at my place. Then she texts me that she is going to get s13 some help with playing baseball. I didn't ask who would be "helping" our son with his baseball. I don't want to know.
I will call W tomorrow. We need to iron out the tax deduction issue. If she wants to talk about life insurance and our divorce, I will deal with it then.
Kat and AJ, I do not believe I will all of a sudden be "happy" or "free" by getting divorced. Life will not magically be better with a divorce. I have invested over 20 years into my R with W. I can be a little more patient and see what happens. And I continue to keep my focus on my children and I. This is the only way I can see of having a "happy" ending no matter what happens between W and I.
This is the only way I can see of having a "happy" ending no matter what happens between W and I.
If its one thing that stands out, Wet it's that you'll do things on your time. My hope is that by pointing these things out, you'll make the decision that's right for YOU.
No, a divorce won't set you free or make you happy. It's a step in the path you are on. Perspective. That's what I'm hoping you get. And I think you do.
I get it Kat. Just pointing out the various options and other ways of looking at the situation.
AJ
Tom, I wasn't saying that you will suddenly be happy. I fought for my marriage. I believed that if it were to end I was going to do what I could to save it. Looking back as the Monday quarterback, all that effort was only for my peace of mind, it had no effect on my now ex. He was gone, had made up his mind long before I found out about the affair.
Maybe everyone does have to travel their own journey through Hades in order to really understand. I couldn't sleep for two years after the divorce. I had to heal from all the pain. When you are in it, you are too busy fighting to let yourself really feel.
I am not saying rush out and file. I think you keep waiting for conditions to be just so before you do what you need to. Don't worry about all of that, just do what you need to. So this all about when you get to the point where you have done what you are able. Your wife is on her own timetable and they may not match. That is fine.after being on here 8 years, I wish I could save people from the pain, to not have it draw out, to see that this process is really about saving yourself snd your kids, rarely does it have the ending that we hoped for when we came here.
This is about you Tom and your four great kids. Get them through.
kat
...I am not saying rush out and file. ...after being on here 8 years, I wish I could save people from the pain, to not have it draw out, to see that this process is really about saving yourself snd your kids, rarely does it have the ending that we hoped for when we came here.
This is about you Tom and your four great kids. Get them through. kat
Hi Kat, you have given me wise words. I understand that my W is on her own journey, and that the only person I can save is myself. And I can show my kids their importance, but I can't even save them. You have a good heart in wanting to save us from the pain most of us on the board are facing.
Journaling: W texted me to let me know d17's braces broke in 2 places, and d17 could get them fixed with an appt. at 2 pm this afternoon. W's car is in the shop, so she asked if I could take her. Being self-employed I can do things like this, and I like doing things like this, so I sent her a text saying "yes".
D17 didn't talk much, we got her braces fixed, took her to her favorite tea place got us some tea, and got her back fairly quickly.
W asked if I could then take her to pick up her car at the car repair place (5 minutes away). I agreed. She asked if I had anything going on, and I mentioned a mutual friend (a guy in our men's group) was having a going away party tonight, and I might go. She wondered whether I was going, and I just said I was a "free agent", I might go.
Then W said she would call her friend who lived near to the bar (live music, darts, pool, it' a fun place),and see if she would go too.
Yeah, no thanks. I am going instead to Divorce Care tonight. I need to talk to the Pastor there tonight, and see if she would consider adding me as a table leader.
Ok, I did think for a minute of going to the bar, and maybe seeing W and having fun like we did in the good 'ol days. But we are different people right now, and W perhaps going to my friend's party just makes me want to stay away.
I need to talk to the Pastor there tonight, and see if she would consider adding me as a table leader.
I think that's a smart move. Hope it goes well and I think you'll find you have a lot to give and receive.
I'm a little different than Kat in regards to saving people the pain. Having been through it, I can see no other way for the changes. I see it as a season, followed by a spring. One that seasons a person. One that it would be hard to live a full life without going through. Not that I wish it on anyone. Just that once it starts, I don't see any way through hell but to keep going...
AJ
Don't you remember people giving advice and just not being ready to hear it? There were even books recommended to me that I was just no where near ready enough to tackle. I suppose I am trying to help people find a pain shortcut.
I already new I was a strong person but wow, not this strong. Good for being the rock my kids deserve.
Tonight I actually vented to my ex about my bad day and my frustration with my full-time job. Must be getting bad because I haven't done that forever. Oops, sorry for the hijack.
kat
Thanks again AJ and Kat, I did go to my church last night and Divorce Care. The topic was "moving on". The emphasis on the topic was that we need to deal with the "trash" in our life, including dealing with and learning from the wrong things we've done in our marriage, also we need to deal with the emotions of anger, fear and anxiety, before we can even start to "move on".
I was not able to speak to the Pastor about my wanting to volunteer. Instead, after class was over, several of us sat down and chatted. I ended up volunteering my legal services to help 2 of my group-mates. One of them is an attractive red-head I've known for 6 months, a bit younger than me, who is always complementing me on my losing weight, and I think we are starting a bit of a friendship. And she is soooo normal (she has a job, is intelligent, and funny), which is very attractive to me right now.
Yes, I get how having someone of the opposite sex in my life as a friend can have a strong pull. A new source of motivation to get in shape - I think I better get to the exercise room today!
You sound great Wet ... and yeah nothing wrong with having some motivation to help you improve!!
Ha, yes Kat. Each of us is at a different point in the readiness of hearing something or seeing reality.
And it's nice to know you can at least talk to your ex. I have to go in armed and see no time that'll change
Wet, I think it's great you are volunteering. I've heard it said (and I remember it because I feel the same way) that when looking for signs in others that they are healing, look to their viewpoint of others. Are they focused on themselves (early in the stages you are and need to be) but as time goes on you look to help others. That's a sign you're looking beyond yourself and a sign you are healing. Since it's hard to see the forest for the trees, it's sometimes nice to know how the switch from focusing on oneself to others is a sign that healing is beginning.
I suspect it also speaks to life in general and how has many philosophical implications.
Feeling the need to volunteer again, going to the gym, having fun with the kids... hmm... seems spring is coming, no?
AJ
Thanks Caliguy and AJ, I appreciate your encouraging words. AJ, I think your thoughts on volunteering are spot on - I have always volunteered at church, but not since the BD. I am feeling healthier, and excited to get more involved in other's lives.
D20 told me her boyfriend of a year broke up with her. D20 is very social, and has lotsa friends. Bf got jealous, controlling, clingy, insecure (d20 said this was not at all attractive -
, yes I get it now) and he couldn't take it anymore, he broke up with her. But d20 is doing great. And I actually got to sit down with her, and she shared her feelings about this. This was nice, I have to do this with my other kids as well.
And a positive on the filing taxes front. I think we have an agreement on the split of the deductions for our kids (W gets 2, I get 1 + d20 if I need it.) And I should be ready to file this weekend.
So the convo with W on tax filing went well. W had previously insisted that she gets to claim all the 3 youngest kids for her taxes. This time, she acted like she never said it, and she said I could talk to d18 and work out claiming her as a deduction with her. W has never filed taxes before, so it is good to see her get her BGP on and take care of this herself.
What I do, but ex does not, is I claim my oldest and give him the amount he would have gotten on his own. It benefits me more. Next year it won't matter as both boys will be gone.
Hope it all works out.
kat
Glad to hear how things are going, Wet. Seems your perspective and self are taking some positive steps. Funny how we learn things from the youngin's, yeah?
AJ
Oh, why is it that the tax code is designed to hurt us that are separated from our spouses?
Yes, I assembled my tax documents (for self-employed people it takes some time, it's not just looking at a W-2). So what did I learn? You cannot claim the Earned Income Credit (EIC), when you are 'Married Filing Separately'. This is a big part of our tax credits b/c we have 4 kids.
So I email W and show her the IRS explanation. I called her after she got my email. And I explain how big of a hit this is going to be. She simply says that she doesn't want to be taken advantage of by having us file jointly.
Ok, I decided against trying to negotiate with her right now. She was going to try and fill-in her taxes on-line, and I want her to see the reality of what the loss of the EIC means to both of us.
W then tells me that she is "on welfare and receiving food stamps", and that she cannot see how she would have to pay any taxes with as little as she made. Sigh... And she turned down a job which wasn't "perfect"?
W also told me her car is broken again, and needs $1,000 of work. She then told a male friend was going to loan her the $1k, until her busy time this summer (assuming her photography work) to get her car fixed now. This part feels kinda good - W is not my responsibility to help her out.
So we are still waiting to see how the tax issue will work out. I got our health insurance application filed today, so at least something is getting completed.
Boy, she is paranoid! Why not suggest doing a trial run of what hers would be as seperated, yours the same and then together. Split the third one if there is that big of benefit.
Money is always an issue.
kat
My childhood best friend's mother (our next door neighbor growing up) passed away, and the funeral is on Thursday. Guess who is wanting to show up? My W. What the heck?
I am friends with this family, and W only knows a couple of them as a brief acquaintance. There is no reason for her wanting to be there, and frankly it is annoying that she is horning in on something that is my involvement, not hers. (A week ago she wanted to go to my friend's 'Going Away Party'.)
And no, there is no chance that she is doing this to be there for me. I checked last weekend, and W is now on at least 3 dating sites. A few months ago she was apparently only on one dating site. So she continues to be in the throws of the single dating lifestyle.
Sorry for your loss.
They can be funny like that, Wet. How'd you find out she's going?
AJ
Hi AJ, I talked to W in a phone convo where we talked about when I would pick up s13. I originally said I would pick him up the afternoon of today, b/c of the funeral this morning. And she asked if the funeral was for "Mrs. X" (my parent's next door neighbor), I said "yes", and then she said that she was thinking of going to the funeral too.
B/c no one was supervising s13, and he is on Spring break, I picked him up yesterday. W was not around. S13 was still dressed in his pj's, and he brought no extra clothes. I am disappointed that W would not spend time with s13 while he is on break.
Today was the funeral for my childhood best friend/next door neighbor's mom. My parents also went. A nice, mellow service.
The best part was the lunch gathering after the service. I was very social, not my strong suit. There was a neighbor I had not met before, and I shared a nice story about bf's mom - when I was young, she was the first person who was pregnant who let me touch her belly to feel the baby move. I was so happy, that every time I went to their house she asked me if I wanted to touch her belly again. She was very sweet.
Then for the lunch I sat with my parents and 2 other of the old neighborhood couples. 1 couple were the parents of another childhood friend. I hugged the mom. I got the latest news on my friend (also a lawyer. He's wearing long hair now, and wild clothes, she said regretfully.) And they all shared neighborhood gossip like they been doing this forever. They all knew about my sitch without me saying a word, but I was upbeat and filled with joy as I gave updates on my kids.
Near the end of the lunch, I visited with several high school mates. I also asked childhood bf how he was doing. He said he was relieved b/c his mom had battled diabetes, and it was a tough battle that he was glad she no longer had to fight. Then we got off talking about his mom, and he told how his 6'5" son was a good basketball player who recently had to defend one of the top 6'"11 centers in the state, and his team almost made it to the high school basketball tournament.
It was nice seeing familiar old faces and visiting. Oh, I almost forgot to mention - W did not show up.
All in all a good memorial by the sound of it. A very nice way to remember somebody special.
As for you son - yeah, teens. They do stuff like that. As for the W - well, they do stuff like that too. One day they look around and realize their "baby" is all grown up like it happened in a blink. For them, it does. For the rest of us and the kids, not so much.
I was talking to a friend today, Wet. He mentioned he was going to take his wife to a jeweler and have her pick out something nice for her birthday. I asked him why he doesn't do it and he said because she likes to. This is his third wife. He mentioned his second wife and how crazy is infectious. It was a short-lived marriage to say the least because she was nuts-o. He had to get rid of her because of it.
Life has a lot of twists and odd things that happen we don't expect. Raising a teen is one of those challenges, right? I wouldn't expect your W to come to her senses and be the old w regarding raising him. At least not anytime soon. She drowning in her own world and can't see out of it like a normal person would. That may be her new normal, Wet.
Perhaps at some point a good memorial for W will be in order. Not as in I'm wishing her dead, but more for the old W that is gone. Good memories, but that person isn't here any longer.
Just some thoughts.
AJ
I spent Easter at my family/ my parent's house. My 3 kids who were in-town spent Easter with my W's side of the family (at one of my sister-in-laws).
After the brunch, I sat down with my older brother. I understand he loves me, and doesn't want to see me in pain. I get this. But he pounded me telling me several times it's time for me to file for divorce.
I explained that I am not ready to file today. I am focusing my life on me right now. But I complained that W and I are having a dispute over taxes, filing separately we lose our earned-income-credit. He tells me again - "y'know, if you were divorced you wouldn't have this problem." I told him "thank you Captain Obvious."
Besides this exchange, I was rocking the PMA. I shared a story about an interesting case that I was in court for last week, and it caught everyone's interest. I felt more confidence and attitude, and it shown thru to the rest of my family.
I spoke with sister-in-law this morning, as I am doing some legal work for her - and I had some good news to share with her on her file. She said she missed me being there with my family for Easter. I was caught off-guard. I didn't know how to respond, so I let her comment pass without commenting on it.
I would have at least thanked her for saying so. She isn't saying anything more than that you were missed as part of the family. NIce of her to say.
kat
Yes Kat, that would have been a nice, gracious response. My mind was fixated on the legal issues that I called her about, so I guess that's my excuse for being a clod.
I just spoke with W about our taxes, and she was amazingly level-headed. She said we should go into a tax professional together, and see together what the difference in our taxes will be if we file together or separately. She also offered to let me buy her tax refund amount that she would get if she filed separately.
I am very relieved.
Oh, so she must have thought of the options I gave you. lol I needed a bit of a smile today.
kat
A bit of journaling - I went over to W's place to hammer out our taxes. W wanted to go to some free tax help, but they were not open today. So long story short, we agreed together to file jointly (saving me several thousand $$), and she got to keep the significant tax refunds.
I know how to negotiate at my job. But gosh darnit I should've negotiated a better deal with W. But I guess I was just too relieved that we could file jointly, and I wouldn't get hit by a big tax bill, that I just wanted to get the returns filed.
W left me at her place to go to a "meeting" to let me finish up filing the returns. I could've snooped her computer, but I did not. Ok, I did see a couple of files on her desktop:
- how to end a relationship;
- good pickup lines (funny, what are we in college?).
As W left I told her how happy I was we could work out filing our taxes together. She gave me a hug, and said "now we just need to finish up our divorce. We don't want to still be separated after 30 years of marriage." Brain-freeze, all I could do was give her 2 thumbs up (?!, whaaat?)
Ok, W just called me. She was pulled over by a police officer, and told her that her license is suspended, and she has no insurance. I know there is also at least 1 unpaid traffic ticket. She asked me how she gets her license back if she can't drive. I knew she was looking for me to drive her, but instead I said "that's the catch 22, you can only get your license back by driving to the county office."
She wanted to have me talk to the police officer, "you know, b/c my husband is a lawyer". Really? I said no, and asked her to call me when the officer had finished writing her up. She has not called since.
So "Wet the fixer" abstained this time?
I think that was a good call for what it's worth.
And the art of negotiation is to keep the eyes on the outcome, right? I'd say it was a good work in that respect. Nobody ever gets all they want in a negotiation anyway, right?
The thumbs up? I'd say that was honest wouldn't you? Neither of you wants to be separated after 30 years of marriage
AJ
Sounds like some good stuff! She can't pick and choose when she has a husband to help her. Good that you didn't rescue.
So are you feeling even better?
kat
Hi AJ and Kat, yes, I am relieved. I have already moved on to my next battle. I feel my landlord is unfairly charging me a late fee for my last month's rent. And I've decided to call them on it, which is something I NEVER do. You know it's easier to just pay the late fee than make waves.
But for some reason I decided this was a something I wanted to stand up and fight. We'll see how this goes.
W tried calling me earlier, but I couldn't take her call. It turns W texted me to let me know she is having an MRI done, and I don't know why she would have this done. She said she would call me later.
It's Friday, and so here are a couple for Lawyer jokes for you:
Q: How does an attorney sleep?
A: First he lies on one side and then on the other.
Q: How do you get a group of lawyers to smile for a photo?
A: Just say, "Fees!"
OK, one more:
Mark Twain notes...
"It is interesting to note that criminals have multiplied of late, and lawyers have also; but I repeat myself."
LOL. Thanks for the smile, Wet!
AJ
Well, today did not go well. W called me up this morning and was chatty (which I now recognize means she wants something from me). She told me about her MRI yesterday for a torn rotator cuff, and there was another older woman who was scared about the MRI, and so W sat with her. It turns W knows 2 of her daughters, and they are now FB friends. Small world. Nice.
Then W complains of the cost of her tickets when she was pulled over by the police earlier this week. One ticket is $125 (she can handle that), then there is another ticket for $500. This doesn't count her tags for driving w/o insurance or driving after suspension (of her license). And she was complaining that the police officer was going to tow her car when she was 2 blocks away from her place.
So W asked me to drive her to the county office/courthouse so she could start paying her fines. Where she gets her $$$, I don't know, and I don't want to know. But I told her "no".
But then W says she cannot get her insurance b/c her license is suspended. So she asked me if she could put her insurance in my name. I tried to get out of it by suggesting other routes, none of which worked. I then agreed she could put her insurance in my name, as long as she paid for her insurance premiums.
When I went over to W's place to pick up s13, W was dressed in a long black dress, jewelry, full make-up, and she was obviously going out tonight. I told her she looked nice, and left it at that.
D17 called me up to tell me she made a red velvet cake today, her brother (s13) ate all of the frosting, and could I pick up some extra frosting for her. And mom can't drive her w/o a license. I was already on my way so I could not, and she was disappointed. Another moment where I scream on the inside of my brain "I didn't choose this!"
PS, W just called me. One of W's bfs picked her up tonight to go to a dance place. Bf's car got pulled over. And it was the same police officer who pulled her over earlier this week. Yes, small world. Ick.
You know you can just make frosting, right? Just a thought.
I doubt seriously you'll be happy you let her onto your insurance, Wet.
The rest? She needs to walk this path. You should let her and you won't want to watch.
My $0.02
AJ
You are letting her figure out her other problems, why let her ruin your name with the insurance? And by the way you are then responsible when she doesn't pay. Aren't you trying to get yor credit back in shape?
She is certainly her own train wreck. AJ is right,you might not want to watch. It isn't going to be pretty. Let her go.
kat
I had a good day lined up - play basketball with s13 then take d17 to a movie ('Insurgent'). Ah, the best laid plans of mice and men...
S13 was again in a sour mood. As an example, I asked him last night if he wanted to go today's movie and he said "no". I asked him again this morning, and he started screaming and yelling at me. This is not like him at all. It did not escalate from there, but he was still tough to be around.
Basketball was fun though. A shorter 8 year old decided to play with us, and he was a good dribbler with a decent shot. They played 1-on-1, a battle of a quick shorter player against my tall and big son. Everyone had fun.
So I was in a good mood when I went to pick up d17. She was also in a good mood b/c she has a tea/luncheon tomorrow with one of the colleges out east that accepted her. The movie was great, and we both enjoyed it. I invited her to eat at a place nearby, but she politely declined.
But on the ride back to W's place, things turned sour. After some light talk about the movie, we talked about W/mom's not having insurance. I know when I stopped paying insurance (last September it was finally switched over). And d17 was trying to explain that W/mom only stopped carrying insurance over the winter when she was driving a friend's car. I knew this was wrong, but I wasn't going to argue about it. I left it at "you do a good job defending your mother."
Then I wanted to talk about tomorrow's informational tea/lunch with an eastern college. D17 is brilliant, but she is not gifted in being in social settings. So I brought up that she might want to try something called "active listening", for the purpose of being someone who can hold a good conversation. D17 got offended.
D17 told me that this was just an informational meeting and she could do quite well without any of my help. I was hurt and said "well, I guess you know best." And d17 shot back, "aren't you Mr. know-it-all". After a few minutes of cold silence, I changed the subject back to the movie, and when we got back to W's place I wished her well for tomorrow's meeting.
It was also this past week W told me while we were doing taxes that I think I know-it-all, and that I spout off on anything without knowing what I was talking about. But this is the first time I have heard d17 attack me like this, and I didn't like it. There is some underlying anger at me in d17, and when I hardly get to see or talk to her, I don't think I can do anything about it. And I don't know why.
And yes, the charges are accurate. I am well read, and I know a little bit about many topics, and I like sharing my opinion. But I don't think I was wrong here, trying to prepare d17 for an important college gathering tomorrow. This is frustrating.
A teenage girl frustrating? Really? Huh.
The advice was one of a caring father. The recipient heard it, but didn't want to.
Puzzles me more why son was in a foul mood?
As for the advice? Perhaps a good dose of STFU would be helpful as a different approach?
AJ
Wet,
I'm so sorry about what transpired yesterday. However, teenagers do not like for adults to offer up advice. They do think we know it all. Heard the same bs from other kids her age and you know what? It's best to remain silent and allow them to learn on their own. When they've hit the brick wall enough and are then ready to listen, the teacher will be there to help them. It's the "age" and they are just like the dear old mlcers. Unfortunately, they think they "know it all" right now and they are in for a rude awakening when they get out into that cold, cruel world.
Your advice to her was spot on...but in the future, listen and only offer up advice when she asks for it. Trust me, she will come to you for advice when she's ready. They have to make these mistakes in order to learn from them. This is all part of growing up.
As for your son, what was his issue?
Thank you Job and AJ. I needed the reassurance so that I do not make my issue with d17 bigger than it should be.
S13? He gets better as the weekend goes along, and we are together the whole time. So this tells me he is not around anyone else during the week (W is not spending much time around the kids), he is playing games on his ipad (obsessively?) and he is shutting out the rest of the world. His grades have plummeted (incl. 2 F's) this past quarter, when he was doing so well at the beginning of the year.
An interesting text from W today. She mentioned "she is counting the days" in reference to d17 going off to college in the fall. I think it also means she is really ready to give me s13 as the primary caretaker. I have been looking at places to live in his current school district.
You probably already instinctively know this, but it's likely that your son being with you full time would be a good thing for him. A boy in his teen years needs his dad (parents really, but dad is very important for him to learn how to be a man; mom to learn how to have a relationship with a woman, and dad again to see how to treat women and people in general.) Stability for a child is very important and let's face it, you're the stable parent for the foreseeable future.
If you can find a way to make that happen, gently, it would be a good thing to work toward.
The obsession with the ipad etc? That's fairly normal for kids these days. But as a parent, I suggest that grades are still the green fee to getting more responsibility and "toys". When you're in a position to assert that, it would be difficult but welcomed.
Hang in there, Wet. There's more to do.
AJ
I think kids certainly need stability regardless which parent provides it. I wish my kids had their Dad during the really difficult times but he has been in la la land and even now thinks the kids need to reach out to him for direction. I had asked him to talk to S19 before we knew they were pregnant, to get a feel for what his plans were...college, tech school or what. He said sure if he brought it up. Lord, what a lack of help!
I will say this though, my son is like the best father I ever could have imagined. He is very hands on. Changes her and does everything he can for her. That little angel is going to be a daddy's girl and for good reason.
I am really proud of him and give him a ton of credit.
kat
I had lunch with d20 today. She is still raw after bf broke up with her, and we both love lobster, so it was Red Lobster time.
And yes, the checklist in my mind gave a blue ribbon for my time with kids this week - s13, I had him this weekend, played basketball and went to his 1st baseball practice yesterday - check. D17, I took her to the movies, and then I called to apologize to her yesterday for my being "Mr. know-it-all" (she had already forgotten) - check.
I watched Game of Thrones last night and was texting d19 in Boston the whole time. It is fun to have someone who understands when I say "Jon Snow is da' bomb!" - check. And today's lunch with d20 was a nice way to enjoy all of my kids in the last few days.
D20 told me that though her bf broke up with her, he is now trying to get back with her. They had been going out for 1 year, so it was serious, but she decided he is not worth the effort anymore where he doesn't trust her and he keeps making the same mistakes. I tried to let her know that boys/guys need help from the women in our lives to grow into men. More caring for others, and less self-centered. And that there are no perfect guys out there, so I wanted her to keep an open mind about her ex-bf.
And yes, she is part of a different generation. The night she changed her FB status to "single" she had 22 offers for a date from other guys. Yikes!
But then I decided to open up to d20 about a number of issues involved in our future:
- I told her mom and I are not getting back together;
- She told me that I am much healthier now, and that I feel like I am ready for another R, where I do not "need" another person in my life, but that I am ready to be appreciated and cared for by someone else, and to have someone to share my life with;
- D20 asked if I was going to be married to someone else. I told her "yes", that I enjoy being married to another person in my life, but that this will take time;
- D20 asked if I was going to have more kids, and I told her I cannot. She asked if the hypothetical future W would have other kids, and I told her let's not get ahead of ourselves;
- I told her mom was on welfare and food stamps, and she turned down a job offer a few months ago;
- I explained that s13 was probably going to live with me/us during the week starting in the summer;
- I don't know what our living plans will be (d20 lives with me), but that there may be a change coming soon. We may need to move;
- I also told d20 that I may be having another surgery to my spinal cord b/c of some things getting worse in my nervous system (I saw my neuro-surgeon this past Friday).
I threw a lot of information at d20, and she seemed a bit overwhelmed by the end of the lunch. Allow me to try and rationalize this to y'all out there, and why I did this - I come from an open family, who is very close and shares everything going in our lives. W's family is secretive and plays everything close to the vest. In fact, I recently learned W had her own bank account when we first got married, and she never told me. I prefer openness.
My kids have questions. So I do not want to have secrets in our family, and for my part I want to treat my d20 as an adult and keep her informed of all that is going on. I'll see if I dumped on her too much in the coming days.
I don't think being open is a problem. Just need to be sure to help her process the information. I'm an open person as well, although I didn't come from an open family. I've been mostly open and honest with the kids - to a degree and age appropriate respecting that it's their mother I'm talking about. It's their life as well.
Spinal cord? What's up?
AJ
Quick question - s13 is playing 7th grade baseball. He is not on a travelling team, he just plays normal Babe Ruth baseball. So W has now mentioned 3 times to me that she has a male "friend" who played some level of professional baseball (he was not in the majors), and she has set up his training s13 with some private lessons. Ballplayer has also offered to buy s13 a new baseball bat ($100+).
W and I early on in our separation agreed to keep op away from our children until after our divorce (no divorce action is now pending). She broke this agreement almost immediately, and I called her on it. I have not heard of any reports of W bringing om around the children since. But I don't ask.
So my question is should I ask s13 if he even wants some baseball tips from W's "friend"? Having someone help s13 get better at baseball is a good thing, but not if it is going to cause him stress. Should I let it pass without comment, or raise a stink about this? I have no evidence ballplayer is anything more than W's "friend", but perhaps this is a good opportunity to have an open discussion (again) about exposing our kids to other people. Any thoughts?
It's Friday, so here is a joke to help start your weekend off with a smile
Guess Who:
A guy walks into a post office one day to see a middle-aged, balding man standing at the counter methodically placing "Love" stamps on bright pink envelopes with hearts all over them. He then takes out a perfume bottle and starts spraying scent all over them.
His curiosity getting the better of him, he goes up to the balding man and asks him what he is doing. The man says "I'm sending out 1,000 Valentine cards signed, 'Guess who?'"
"But why?" asks the man.
"I'm a divorce lawyer," the man replies.
Wet
Sometimes I think our MLC'rs fail to realize anyone else's feelings (yours or s13's) ..... maybe its the 'in' with this possible op, "Oh you played chess once, well my s plays" kinda thing. Personall I would have an issue with it ... even more so if dude was offering to buy his way in with the bat deal. My son too plays pony ball, and yeah I am all for him getting better, but I am with you on this one, sounds like a good time to restate the boundary ....then again sounds like your W will do as she wants regardless so this may just push her into it ya know?? ... I guess you just need to trust your gutand pick your spots.
Thanks Caliguy. It looks like things are going well for you.
I'm disappointed. I was not able to pick up s13 this afternoon as he fell asleep as soon as he got home from school. And wouldn't wake up 3 hours later.
So excuse my childishness but when W told me she was going out to "see a game" tonight I assume with a male friend. So I decided to send her a few texts with only bits of information in each text. E.g., "S13 wouldn't wake up, so u have him tonight."
Then I sent a text reminding her that s13 has a baseball practice tomorrow.
Then the field it was at. Then the time, etc. and I spread the texts out, so that her focus was on her phone, and not the "game". I know how annoying W being on her phone can be, and if W is with someone else, let him have a taste of this.
Yes, I know, my small mind is easily amused.
Yes, I know, my small mind is easily amused.
So it would seem. Do you think that nobody else would notice the childishness of the texts? Just asking. I think you do, but curious.
I guess the other question is what are you hoping to gain from it? Hopefully nothing, but curious about that too.
AJ
Et tu, AJ? Us LBS' have so few opportunities to have a chuckle by turning the tables on our spouses. Allow me to enjoy the moment.
And W was texting me back, she could have waited until later to text me questions. She could have given the "game" her full attention. She choose not to, and I happened to play into that. All's fair in love and war, right?
It hasn't been so long since you've been tortured wondering what your WW (now XW) was doing on a weekend night, has it?
And the only thing I was hoping to gain was
IF W was with another person, that this OM might have that uncomfortable twinge of seeing her text with someone else. Oh yes, my own self-amusement as well.
The self-amusement? Not such a big deal - you have a relationship with your w still. That's between you two.
The wanting to get at her other person for your self-gratification? Hoping that they'd be uncomfortable seeing her not paying attention to them?
That's like setting yourself on fire hoping to get smoke in her eyes.
It's been years for me, Wet. Once I realized I wasn't going to have anything to do with her and made it MY choice. As it turns out, I do have some interaction because we have kids together. But I keep it minimal and business only at this point.
And no, it wasn't always like that. I'm just not cutting any slack until you at least see the bigger picture of what you're doing and the ineffectiveness and degradation (to you) that occurs on the path you're currently taking.
In the scheme of things? Doesn't really matter to her or the situation. To you? It matters.
AJ
Hi AJ, I trust your advice. You have been thru this, I haven't. And your responses are always intelligent and thoughtful. Thank you.
Two updates: I picked up s13 at his baseball practice late yesterday afternoon. He had a new bat (W last week hurt me by telling me that a ball-playing "friend" in her life wanted to buy s13 a new bat). And s13 was really hitting the ball well with his new bat yesterday.
But I chose not to ask s13 about the bat, b/c I realized this was my issue, not his. He volunteered to me last night, asking me if his bat looked "new". I said it did. And he happily told that mom bought it at a 2nd hand sports-gear store. That made me feel better.
Second, I am having an MRI this week to see what is going on with my spine. I have neuropathy in both legs from my spine, that has gotten worse since my 1st spinal fusion surgery last year. I have also developed a tremor in my left hand. I am discouraged. I don't want to go thru another surgery on my spine, and the rehab that goes with it. But let's find out what the MRI shows first.
I picked up s13 at his baseball practice late yesterday afternoon. He had a new bat (W last week hurt me by telling me that a ball-playing "friend" in her life wanted to buy s13 a new bat)...
I see W is back to trying to provoke/hurt me with her innocent comments/texts. I text her to let her know s13 wants to go back early today to W's place. And she starts texting me about if I had seen s13's new bat. I text back to let her know I did, and s13 was crushing the ball with it.
Then W texts me: "yes, it took 3 men and s13 to pick the bat out."
The only purpose I can see in W's text was to provoke me. I did not go for the bait. But...
If I was going to respond to W's text, I might have said: "Oh, Happy Hour had a 3-for-1 deal?"
Or perhaps, "Oh, you brought your Friday night dates out to help in choosing the bat?"
Yes, I understand W is dating other men, and is on dating sites. But I don't know why she has to throw this cr*p in my face.
Why does she tell you these things? <shrug> Who really knows? It could be that these men are just friends. Seriously. Or they could be neighbors. Or.. Who really knows, right?
I realize what it's like, Wet. I have been THERE to be sure. It doesn't help that you're feeling discouraged and somewhat down about the physical problems.
But you're digging a dry well. Heading down a cheese-less tunnel. You're... well, you get the idea.
Try to stop that line of thinking. It doesn't lead anywhere good for you. And you have no control over her actions. Only yours.
What you're going through is not easy. It's not. But there are things you can do to prevent additional difficulties for yourself. Such as not "lashing out" and reframing your thoughts around what's going on or not.
I can tell you that you can guess and it'll usually be the worst, whatever you come up with. And more often than not, it won't be accurate at all. Since that's the case, you may as well imagine the best possible outcome, wish her well, and go on about your merry way, Wet.
I doubt seriously that if she were to knock on your door tomorrow and tell you she wanted to fix the M, that you'd take her back. Maybe for a little bit, but this new person is not somebody you'd be happy about long-term. Too much water under that bridge. Too much damage. So I can only think that you'd like to repair your ego a bit and be the one to tell her no. To see her fail. Or to see her hurt as a way to make you feel better (as evidenced by the texts.) But you already know, and I can agree with you, that you wouldn't be happy about it. For more than a second or two. That kind of effort is not going to bring you peace.
So your health is not optimal. Your son has a new bat and its working well, your daughters are doing well, and you've been volunteering and helping others.
All in all, not too bad a life, Wet. Perhaps things aren't where you'd like them to be in all aspects, but now might be a time for a lot of gratitude for what you do have. You may find that brings you much more joy, peace and happiness than anything else.
Not that you won't have your moments, my friend. You will else you wasted a lot of years up to now in my opinion. But I do think it would help to focus on the things you're thankful for rather than being down and worried (hard to do, I know).
Put some thought into it, my friend. I know you have it in you.
AJ
Today's Lawyer Joke:
Two Boys' Fathers
Having just moved to a new home, a young boy meets the boy next door. "Hi, my name is Billy," he says, "what's yours?"
"Tommy," replied the other.
"My daddy's an accountant," says Billy. "What does your daddy do?"
"He's a lawyer," Tommy answers.
"Honest?" says Billy.
"No, just the regular kind."
Hi everyone,
I haven't thought about writing anything helpful for anyone else, and I haven't thought of anything to write about my own sitch, until now...
W texted me on Monday night to invite me over to help d17 evaluate her college choices. D17 had 2 colleges to go over, and I essentially did spreadsheets on the 2 schools, and showed there was over a $10k difference for the schools.
I told d17 I would call the 2 schools the next day to see if there were any other options. And yes, it was so bad, schoo1 #1(the one with better grants/scholarships) answered my call, clearly answered my q's, gave me a website to provide more of a detailed response, they were great.
School #2, who happens to be in-state, provides significantly worse scholarships/grants, and I called them on Tuesday morning and left a detailed message, and in 2 days they haven't even bothered to return my phone call. I don't even think they are in the running right now, though they are the "religious" choice.
Oh and btw, W was there as I went over the numbers for d17, on her phone the entire time, and was eating a garlic pretzel snack mix. I and d17 declined. Then W said the garlic was so strong that she had to go brush her teeth, taking her phone with her and then disappeared for 10 minutes. Yes, I'm sick of her acting like a 20-something with her phone.
What made it worse, today W texts me and says there is a $500 application fee for school #1 and she asked how much I was going to contribute. I am frustrated as I gave her all of the recent tax return refunds (over $7k) and of course W said this was going partially to the kids. I just texted her to say how happy I was d17 had made her choice on schools, I just couldn't bring myself to respond directly to her question on how much I was going to contribute.
Oh yes, W was mad at d20 on Sunday (d20 has a truck) who was late in getting her truck to help with several "furniture moves". D20 is always late, so I tried to calm W down as she was fuming as d20 wasn't at the scheduled furniture move on time. W knows better than to expect d20 to be on time. It wasn't my issue.
Oh and ughhhh! I have a colonoscopy tomorrow. Does anyone know? Will I be able to get any sleep tonight?
The 4 little pills and the thick gel stuff I have to drink every 15 minutes is for the birds. Mixing it with Mio orange/vanilla makes it almost drinkable.
Good luck today!
kat
Yes, hope it went well. Just remember the doc should only have one hand on your shoulder
AJ
Yes, hope it went well. Just remember the doc should only have one hand on your shoulder
AJ
I about spit up my tea on that one AJ
OK, I normally post a joke on Fridays, but AJ, you already beat me to the punch.
Everything is well with my colon. However, my neuro-surgeon has scheduled an appointment for me to come in next Thursday after he has reviewed my recent MRI. Let's see what comes next on my spine...
hey Wet
I am glad your colonoscopy went well.
I haven't followed your thread too much so I don't know the details of your sitch but why would you give her the entire refund and expect her to act fairly with the $$.
You know she in teenager mode so of course she is not saving any for applications.
You need to protect yourself and your kids financially and not give her any more $$ then is her fair share.
You should have split the refund 50/50 then paid your part of the application.
Just my 2 cents
Be well
Glad it came back with good news and honestly, I was looking forward to your Friday joke.
AJ
Hi BklynMom, Yes, I was conflicted about the tax refund. But at the time, I was looking at paying into the IRS if I filed separately. So I was relieved of not being into debt to the IRS.
It is funny how things work out. I am current on paying my child support. But for some reason, the County levied on "my" refund to pay the next month's support. So W's refund is actually less, and I do get credit for this month's child support. The government should not be so quick to levy on refunds, especially on jointly filed returns, as in this case they hurt the person they are trying to help.
Do you have a legal agreement on support filed? I never heard of them doing that when you are still married.
Glad you are well. Hope they can get you fixed up right and the MRI can get you there.
kat
Hi Kat, after the BD and W's separation she filed for county assistance without telling them of my support. I paid her as soon as she left. Wait, that sounds weird.
I paid her
support when she left.
So the County brought a child support hearing in W's name. So yes, we have a court order on child support. And the order says that the county can levy on my tax refund if I fall behind - which again, I am not.
Btw, I spoke to my d19 in Boston who I suspect of being a lesbian, and used you as my starting off point for the discussion (as you suggested). I asked her "I have a friend whose 16 year old daughter recently came out of the closet. Do you have any advice on how she should best show her support?"
My d19 said you should make sure to treat her the same. Show your daughter the same love that you showed her before she told you. But my d19 did not open up to me about where she is at, or anything more about who she is.
I suppose when she is ready, she will talk about it. My 14 year old has a hard time with how people talk about people that are gay. We have talked about it. It is a lot to take in. I do treat her just the same though, so I suppose that helps.
kat
Wet,
You may want to think about starting a new thread. I think I'm poster 102 and generally around the 100th posting, they lock the threads.