Hello All DBers!
Yours Truly is on the road again, dancing and making mayhem south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Typing on my trusty iPhone stinks, but I wanted to check in to make sure no one is drowning in the Eggnog bowl or strangling themselves with garland...
Woo-hoooo!
GUBU is back home on the Triple GGG Ranch and he is in fine and FREAKY form!
Too much to write now, but let's just say that any positive changes I've logged were superficial at best.
He is off his rocker! SO glad I am sitting in hospitals and nursing homes instead of being in his CUCK-OO! presence.
I'll give you all the dirt later. That was just a taste.
Me? I'm doing great. Hallelujah and pass the Candied Yams.
Until we meet again,
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal
GG,
I'm glad you "escaped" from the ranch and are doing something you enjoy. Enjoy the time you spend w/friends and family and yes, doing the things that you love.
Happy Holidays!
Funny you an I seem to be mirroring our stitches.
Cuckoland is well in existence here, too!
Would love to slam the door, pull the covers over me head and cancel the whole Christmas Day.
Yes---in Cuckoo-Land for sure!
I am still processing my last interactions with the person who used to be my H and is now "GUBU to the Nth Degree"!!!!
I will not write it all now because I am still confused.
But here are some things I will touch on:
* Contradicting himself: "You won't need a cargo box on your vehicle unless you'll be traveling a lot." (Umm... moving out=traveling????)
* "And THAT is why I want a DIVORCE!!!!" (Me close to tears in frustration while trying to deal with a very small issue with him.)
* Him thinking it wasn't worth mentioning that, (while I'm away visiting my hospitalized 87 year old mother), he was going to tear apart my living area in order to "improve" the parts HE thought needed "improving".
* Him acting "put-out" that I might want to be informed of his tearing apart MY living space. And communicating with me about electric outlet placement, WALL placement, little things like that...
* Him getting all "I'm working on my Co-Dependency Issues" by making statements such as "It's not MY responsibility to make everything PERFECT for YOU!!!" (Ok. I agree. How about---not squalid????)
* Me finding my (inherited) deceased Uncle's very expensive Nikon 35 mm camera, light meter, and all accessories dropped into a corner of the basement, covered with sheetrock and dirt. Probably broken. Which he did, carelessly, while working on another project important to HIM, meaningless in the big picture, and not helpful to finishing the house or making my living area less horrific...
...because those things are not as important as him doing "what moves him at the moment" regardless of the outcome....
Heck. If it requires a PLAN or COOPERATION, it must be too complicated. Which means it's probably somehow MY fault.
* Me daring to mention said condition of camera, which I didn't for two weeks, but felt I had to when he admitted he was going to tear apart my living room and relocate my belongings "Somewhere" (there is nowhere to put anything), I was the bad guy for saying anything. Clearly rained on his parade.
* My problem for caring at all. How dare I mention anything which makes him feel bad about himself, however carefully and tactfully I put it? I can't win. Nope. Only can get by if I tell him how wonderful he is. That is the ONLY tack I am "allowed" to take. Period.
* Me going to another state--and about some issues with my mother's car being missing...
...he is all worked up on the phone (DRUNK!!!) stating that I should drive back up north so HE can come down south and kick some a$$--namely the a$$es of the people who are "messing his HIS family!!!" (about the missing car) I just about fell off my chair....
* He's been drunk every night that I can tell... Calls and texts about inconsequential stuff. Saying he's fallen asleep in front of the TV, some halfway synopsis of various movies he fell asleep in the middle of watching.
Just free-falling here, bear with me....
* Me saying "Good luck finding a woman with no emotions." (In response to his "THIS" is why I want a divorce. This--meaning "THE WAY YOU ARE NOW". (Emotional)
* Me saying: "The problem is not MY emotions, it's your inability to handle yours."
* Me shaking, feeling like I was going to faint-- leaving him with his stupid little Christmas gift (nothing from him or anyone, not even a "Merry Christmas")
* Me saying "I wouldn't be surprised if you quit therapy like you always do." Him saying that he's going every two weeks, "not that it's any of YOUR business."
* Me saying that it's not my business, and I couldn't care less, but clearly it's not helping him with his interpersonal relationships. That he still can't talk about anything with me without getting defensive.
* Him saying that he's done a lot of things to help me out--me acknowledging that, yes, he has. And I appreciate it.
(His--by way of JIM!---apologizing. Saying he's trying--in his own way.)
* Me saying that I need to feel emotionally and physically safe with him--and I DON'T. That I don't feel I can depend on him.
* Now he calls me every day that I'm away. Being weird.
* Me--here, looking at areas where I might move, doing the "relocation dance".
* Mom wants me to live in her house indefinitely. (Built-in caregiver/servant/nursemaid)
Ugh. It's HER house. HER life. It would be limbo for me. I don't want to stay here, so why would I? Unless I had to.... More pressure from her....
I love my mother but I've given the last ten years, with help from H.
On my own, I'd be s spinster, living here, isolated...caring for her. That's not what I want for myself and she can do well without me sacrificing what's left of my life to devote it to her.
* GUBU is saying crazy stuff about the animals, about what I'm doing (looking at places I might relocate to after divorce.) He says again that he wants a divorce, but doesn't like me moving forward to plan for myself.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly----between my mother and my husband, my head is reeling.
I apologize for the "stream of consciousness" writing but I'm not going to edit. Time is short.
I just wanted to dash some thoughts down before they flee my mind.
-------------------------------------------
Still...not feeling love, or even "like" for H. He is not behaving like someone I would value as part of my life. It's "bare minimum" as far as he's concerned.
He is also acting so wacky on other levels that it scares me.
I keep thinking that I'd be at peace without all this insanity; to be able to construct my own life as I see fit. Without the toxic aspect that H has been adding these last several years.
MLC or not. I don't know if I can outlast this. I don't know if he will ever "see the light"; meaning, I'm a good-hearted woman. I've never done him wrong. I'm cute and kind and attractive and smart and sexy---and if that's NOT "enough", or if it's "too much" for him---then, too bad.
I can't stand here holding the door open for him. My arm is getting tired. There are other things I want to do.
I envision a life for myself which does not include walking on eggshells around someone who I believed cared for me.
If I can't be myself with someone, I'd rather be alone.
And there we are---DBers.
Sorry for the ramble.
Sometimes you just got to get it out.
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal
I'm sorry GG. It sounds like you have a lot going on with your mother and GUBU. What you feel is understandable. You get to decide how you want to live.
Hang in there!
Yeap, definitely my h, definitely narc behaviour. He's lost control the dals are trying to slap gg back into the script.
You don't have to lie down
GG,
I'm very sorry that you are dealing w/both your mother's situation and that of your husband's. Is your mother independent enough to be able to live alone? If not, maybe put an ad in the paper seeking someone to live in and be a companion to her.
As for your h, he is one miserable individual and he's not happy one bit. The alcohol isn't helping him take the edge off either. Sure, get a divorce and let's see how happy you are going to be. It's nothing more than a piece of paper and guess what? The issues will still be there to deal with. He just has no clue about himself and what's going on. Poor man. That piece of paper will only bring him happiness for about 6 months and then he's going to realize he's still unhappy.
I do hope that you catch a break over the holidays and can do some fun stuff for yourself. You've got a plate full of things going on and you need to take a time out for yourself.
Please take care of yourself.
GGG,
It looks like you've got a lot on your plate with your mother, absentee H, half-finished house, and a bunch of farm animals. It'd make any sane person flip out. We all have choices each and every minute.
How about booking yourself for an hour-long back massage? Or something that's solely for YOU? Get to a place of total relaxation. Sometimes I think you're neglecting yourself a bit too much. Right or wrong?
What are plans for GoatGal in 2015?
Calling GGG using my dog whistle.....where's my skinny dipping buddy?
Hi GoatGal. How goes it? Not heard from you for a while
Hey GGG,
I miss you...........
I know I haven't posted in a while but I was reading everyday and have always kept up to date on your sitch - all your feelings and emotions seemed to mirror mine almost exactly but you express them so much better than I can. I have watched you become more and more detached just as I have done. You get great advice here and I have learned from it too.
I really hope you are ok........let us know
GGG,
If you don't feel like posting about your sitch for now - that is understandable, I didn't for nearly six months but I kept reading and it helped............
Could do with your well expressed, funny comments on my sitch, need to lighten things a bit, might be a distraction from your own!
About to make an important trip, any advice / thoughts??
Or,
just pop out and let us know that you are ok...........
I second that. Hope you are doing ok Goat Gal!
Ok, I'm really starting to worry about GGG(G)! If anyone hears from her PLEASE let us know! She's out there in the country taking care of all those animals; that can be dangerous!!
GGG,
Where's my skinny dipping partner? I'm in the mood for another round of it. C'mon down and join me...willya?!
There'll be s'mores and drinks waiting for us afterward.
slapYou men! What's wrong with your gutter minds@!@!@?
Hey All,
I'm here, was traveling for awhile with not much access to internet, then found that I was thinking more clearly about my sitch with less input. So when I returned home, I found that trend continued...
I have thought of you all many times, but just couldn't face getting on here and reading, much less writing.
I have been working really hard on my detachment which means thinking as little as possible about my marriage and my husband, and much more on myself, my future, and all the things which are under my control.
I have been working on a variety of projects, mostly of the musical variety, and that is going extremely well. I am even considering remaining in this area no matter what happens with my marriage, because I realized the value of all the wonderful people I now have in my life. (And I love snow and winter, and they just don't have that down south.)
In the past, it's been too much time thinking about my sitch, about other peoples' sitches, when that time can be better put to use furthering my own goals.
Things with GUBU are at a standstill. Now a solid six months of him saying "We need to talk" about once a month, but he doesn't ever open a conversation. I just ignore...
He continues to come around, help out, and "be nice". However, there is still no remorse, no emotional connection; in fact, he has made it clear that any emotions from me other that "Life is GREAT and so are YOU!" are unwelcome.
For all his therapy, his emotional coping skills are zero. His empathy is zero. His humility is zero. At least from what I've seen, and there have been plenty of chances for him to demonstrate something, anything... and yet.
I am of use to him. I'm a great pet-sitter, animal-carer, house cleaner, grocery shopper, maintenance person, "buddy", project-pal, an attractive, kind person who can be trotted out on occasion to increase *his* value.
I suspect many people on his end don't even know we're separated since I've heard he still refers to me as "his wife" and the same people don't seem to know he's living in his friend's guest room.
I think he likes it like this. It's how he always wanted our marriage to be.
All of the benefits with none of the drawbacks. (Like having to uphold marriage vows, not have secrets, not have activities which are at odds with having a loving, committed relationship.) He can have a "wife" for all the reasons it's convenient, without having to do any of the emotional work or change anything about himself.
He continues to focus his energies on the things he finds important, and while he's "nice" to me, it's not like he ever really goes out of his way. Not if it means being vulnerable or really warm.
I'm frustrated with this and coming to the end of my ability to tolerate the continued compartmentalization of me as a person in his life.
I am so grateful for my friends who have supported me through this. But looking forward, I just don't think he has the character to weather this storm and do what he would need to do to R with me. His mode is just to sweep things under the rug, and if I know him at all (I think I know this much) he's thinking that with time, it'll just fade away like it never happened and we can play "pretend."
Unfortunately, no relationship can withstand such a great wounding without addressing that wound. I will recover on my own and have for the most part.
But I can't recover with him unless he does the work, and that is not forthcoming.
It's been 18 months since I discovered his infidelity, and we are no further along than we were then. Not really. There is no movement from him in terms of any kind of real remorse. (Saying "I'm sorry for our sitch" in a text is just insulting. As if it happened all by itself.)
I'm fine. Better than fine. I'm back to being happy---UNLESS I have much to do with him, and then it's back to insomnia and getting manipulated.
When I withdraw from him for my own sanity, he steps up his game, starts calling now and texting long messages, about how "sad" he is and other stuff. Until I open up to him again and then it's the same old, same old.
Acting like he cares, without the actual warmth or caring. Since I now know what genuine warmth and caring feel like, it gets harder and harder to tolerate this facsimile.
So I'm frustrated, moving ahead with my own plans, and trying to engage with him as little as possible.
I think it's clear to him that I'm a good person, someone worthy of being in a loving relationship, someone he likes, would find attractive, would enjoy being around, would be a good match.
Except; he doesn't feel that way.
Whether it's because he ruined whatever trust I had in him, made me into someone who is no longer gullible and easily manipulated, made me stronger, or because whenever he lets his guard down with me, he can see what he's done to me.
I'm not good at hiding my feelings, and even though I have a tight rein on myself, I know it shows on some level.
But his avoiding my pain is not about helping ME. It's his weakness that he can't face it, and he wants ME to put it on a shelf so he will feel less uncomfortable.
That is 100% clear to me, and it's not going to happen. It's not my job to pretend so he can avoid feeling the brunt of what he's done. Which doesn't mean I bring up the A or say anything critical. I mean, I can't even show emotion that might be related in any way.
That's not acceptable to me.
I am tired of walking on eggshells and tired of pretending to be perky and perfect and happy when he's around.
Oddly enough, when he's NOT around, being happy and upbeat is never a problem.
That tells me something.
I do appreciate you all checking in with me; I felt guilty not providing an update, and I'm sorry I didn't do so earlier. I just needed a break.
I don't anticipate anything changing this year with him. I fully expect him to push the divorce through when he can, and also expect him to want to keep me here on some level. So he'd have his "divorced" status for his online dating, but all the perks of having me as a wife. Or half-a-wife. Have his cake and eat it too, I guess.
Well, that won't work for me. I have the sense that all his "niceness" is buttering me up so he can create just that situation for himself. With me, the ever-trusting, loyal former wife who won't date or make demands... while he's free to do as he pleases.
Of course, I could be wrong about all of this, but I don't think so.
I have not seen one tiny bit of him wanting to support me or get close to me emotionally. Yet, he wants that from me.
I have to stop giving it to him, but it's hard. When he's here, I can let my guard down, I forget what's happened... and I think he counts on that.
I find myself chatting away, and then it's back to the same old "Mr. Nice Guy" routine.
But being "nice" is not the same thing as being kind or compassionate.
I've been doing ALL the emotional lifting in this R for years, and I'm done.
I need to expend my energy on things that will actually give me a return for my money, and sadly, I no longer think he's going to be one of them.
Sure, a miracle could happen. But it's not likely.
The man is very emotionally closed off in more ways than I ever knew.
This time alone allowed me to really look back over our whole R with the goggles off, and I have seen a lot.
I have seen how insidious his treatment of me has been, and how it's led to this point. I was manipulated and used, and sold a false bill of goods. That's the truth of it.
Sorry not to have better news, but there it is.
Love you guys...
Your Pal,
The Goat Gal
Hey GGG!
Good to see you here...glad you were able to enjoy your travels and hanging out with cool people.
What a long update.
Say that you just met this guy last week, would you date him? Would you consider him as marriage material?
I know, I know. He is in MLC. You just cannot fritter away your life if he won't or will not do a jot as a good-to-honest-spouse.
What he does around the house etc, you just can do it yourself and even hire a handyman to handle occasional projects.
I need to say this: I do worry that if you do divorce H, that you will saddled withe farm and the animals. It's a drain on you emotionally, physically, and mentally. Heck, it is been happening for a while.
You DO matter. Sometimes we hang on to things out of "obligation." I have learned that it is okay to say "no" and/or turn things down.
My time and energy are a very valuable commodity that I own 100%. If I say "no" and people are not pleased with my choices, oh well...they're not living my life.
Hey, Wonkie!
No, I won't be saddled with anything. Neither will he, since neither of us can run this place alone, financially or otherwise.
We will lose the house, the animals, and all of it. He doesn't seem to get that yet, but it's the truth. The only reason he'd think that wasn't going to happen was because he'd either never divorce me and keep me in "separated limbo", or hopefully divorce me but keep me living here.
I know I matter, that's why I don't want to be around people who tell me through their actions that they don't really respect or value me.
He is one of those. He is too concerned with himself and his own issues, and they clearly come first.
He acts like the victim, and it's repulsive to me.
So---No worries about me!
As for dating him, the red flags are waving high and bright! I wish I'd seen them 30 years ago. Not on your life would I date him. There is nothing to like. He is like a shell of a person. He "acts" nice, but it really seems like an act. Sad. Really sad.
And I don't think any other woman would either the way he is now, unless she was a total mess of a person. And I guess there are plenty of those around.
At least when I met him, he was cute.
The fact is, I'm doing so much better on my own that I have with him in many years. My social life is very full, I have more invitations than I care to accept. I have been doing new things and meeting interesting people all the time. I am networking and following up on jobs and housing. I am planning my future WITHOUT HIM.
No doubt he feels this, and is stepping up his game.
I remember Labug saying, "If you're friendly with him, how does that give him an incentive to change?" (Paraphrasing). I insisted on more contact because he seemed to "like" that.
Well, I now must say that they were right and I was wrong.
(Isn't this always what happens?)
He just took advantage of my kindness and openness, and changed NOTHING.
They were right. Why should he? He has just what he wants, short of me inviting him to come back and we'll pretend none of this nastiness ever occurred.
I'll just blindly trust him again, still be loyal, still be who I was.
Well, that woman is long gone.
In her place is someone smarter, stronger, wiser, and more skilled in identifying and deflecting the actions of manipulative and dishonest people.
What a lesson to learn, but learn I have.
I can never go back to how I was before. I'm IMPROVED and I LIKE it.
If he doesn't, oh well. That's at least one good thing he gave me. A hell of an experience.
---(G)GGG
GGG,
It'll be your decision whether to pull the plug or not. Tough choices indeed.
T2 did and he's now living it up now that he is an officially divorced man. He did the walk and gave it all. Ultimately, T decided that he was too valuable frittering away time on someone who didn't want him at all.
Well, I ain't gettin' any younger....
Oh, and I think GUBU "wants" me on some level. He "wants" the parts that are useful and comfortable to him, and he wants to ignore/destroy/diminish the rest.
Because he's not "comfortable" with the whole me.
Unfortunately, it's kind of difficult to cut myself into pieces, physically or emotionally. Not that I'd want to try.
These are quotes from Steve Martin's Book/Movie: Shopgirl
“Only then does he realize what he has done to her, how wanting a square inch of her and not all of her has damaged them both, and how he cannot justify his actions except that, well, it was life.”
“...just remember, darling, it is pain that changes our lives.”
“For a while, she believes there will be a moment when he will cave in and let himself love her, but eventually she lets the idea go. She hits bottom. She dwells in the muck for several months, not depressed exactly, but involved in a mourning that at first she thinks is for him but soon realizes is for the loss of her old self.”
“As she sits in a booth, it never occurs to her to observe herself, and thus she is spared the image of a girl sitting alone in a bar on Saturday night. A girl who is willing to give every ounce of herself to someone, who could never betray her lover, who never suspects maliciousness of anyone, and whose sexuality sleeps within her, waiting to be stirred..."
Shoot, y'all. Just read the book.
---(G)GGG
Glad to hear you are doing well GG. I have also found that I'm better when I don't dwell on this MLC cr@p, so I haven't done much of it either lately. I expect D to be final within a few weeks, so I guess this is the best way to be, given the circumstances! Thanks for checking in - we were getting worried! Keep living your awesome life!
Nice recommendation.
I'm glad you've moved yourself this way. I admire your stamina and your perseverance. You have so much to be proud of.
and I'm glad you value yourself enough to let go of GUBU.
But the next time you take a break pop in from time to time and say "Not dead!!"
Hey GGG(G),
So glad you are still with us! You had us worried. I must say I have been waiting for you to come to the realizations about GUBU you have now. It seemed so clear he just doesn't deserve someone as wonderful as you. We all try to hold on to the hope that our S's will come out of the fog and return to being the descent people they were before the MLC hit. I have and so have so many here. There comes a time when we must start to think of what is in OUR best interests. You are so much happier, more vibrant when he isn't around pretty much bringing you down. The MLCers seem to think of ONLY themselves 24/7. They expect, demand even that we LBS's bow to their wishes and look for reasons we are to blame for their own bad behavior. We know better. We know what a "normal" R is supposed to be like. There can be no R when one person can only think of ways to make themselves happy. A R takes give and take and while it doesn't always need to be 50/50, there has to be some give. GUBU can't give that much is very clear. If that's because of guilt or just because it doesn't matter to you. You deserve more. Not only that I'm sure there are many real men out there who would love the chance to have a healthy R with you! You can't waste your life waiting for someone who had the chance and threw it away.
It will be sad to say goodbye to your critters. I too am an aminal lover (don't think I would have made it this far without my dog there for me) and I know that will be hard. Just another thing we LBS's are forced to give up because of our S's MLC. You will be great GGG. You have grown so much in the time I have been on the board. Time to spread your wings and live your life for YOU!
GGG, it is always such a pleasure to read your updates. You make so much sense. I find myself thinking more clearly after reading your posts. I’m not kidding… You express what I’m straggling to express some times. I read your post and I think “bingo”, this is exactly how I feel.
I hope you come back to update us on your life once in a while.
Hey GGG,
so glad to hear from you! Just to know you are well and moving forward is wonderful, thanks for updating. I completely understand why you stayed off the boards, it was the same reason I stayed away for six months. It is too sad sometimes - to read posts by people trying so hard, trying everything while their spouses are interested only in themselves and don't seem to be concerned about the pain they are causing - their cruelty to the people who love them the most is so difficult to read about.
My H is living a 'half life' in each of his worlds. He has his life in Moscow exactly as he wants it - having his A but not living with her, has his own apartment, pretending to me that he is not in a R with anybody - making sure that everyone over there who may be in contact with me keeps his secret (we went to his business partner's apartment for dinner - he lives with a young woman and they have a new baby - I saw a message he sent to his business partner asking if his partner was 'primed' not to tell me anything. Also thanking for him for uninviting another work collegue because he might have said something to me after a few drinks - what alot of effort he went to to ensure I wouldn't find out something I already know!).
At this stage I just feel sorry for him and even for her. I have so much more than either of them will ever have, a loving family and children who care so much about me and miss me when I'm away - I am not fake, I am not a liar, I am not a cheater. During the course of the meal I received a phonecall from a client - my H said who is that, I told him it was John and he laughed for the benefit of those present saying 'wondering who John is?' big joke suggesting I might be having an A, they all laughed - but the joke was supposed to be on me, being the only one in the room that didn't know about his A - Yet, I was the only one in the room who knew they were all lying. How very sad for all of them but most especially for my H - what a way to live your life - lying, cheating and making jokes about it in the presence of your wife of 25 years and the mother of your children.
Sorry for hijacking GGG, but suffice to say, I think I am where you are now - sad for my H, but see no improvement, no desire to be a better person, no ability to be in a comnmitted loving R with me or even with her - while I am detached and know who I am. I would end it now if it was just about me but I need to protect our youngest for as long as I can.
Like you, I wonder if this is the way he always wanted our M - I am useful, a good mother who looks after his children well, someone who will listen to his endless critisim of others ('so and so is such a liar' - how often do I hear that, the irony seems to be lost on him), someone who makes him look better than he is. I do know there is a good person in there, capable of love but he doesn't love himself and has embraced his 'shadow self' to the full. I have heard it said that 'if you do not see your shadow you are not standing in the light' - he sees his shadow and has chosen to live in the dark with it.....................
Hi GGG,
really glad you're ok, but as others have said dont leave it so long in future
sounds like you had a good chance to get your thoughts straight and really take stock of the good and the bad. I hope that your feeling as postive about you as you sound.
looks like an interesting book
I love hearing from you and have glad great benefit from your own threads and the posts on others.
Your advice is wise too, GUBU will only think about the start to change if GGG moves on, then it is GGG with the choice.
Peace
V
Hi Goatgal,
Don't know if you still check the boards at all but its been a while and I'm wondering how you're doing?
Hope all is good with you.
just wanted to let you know i read through some of your old posts about dealing with your H's porn addiction. You are spot on. So sad that I felt like I had written them. Hope you are doing better now.