The original thread w/this title was created back in 2002 and has now since been purged, but I thought it would be good to have the first posting brought back to help others and hopefully get some new discussions started to help those who are struggling w/understanding why their spouses/mates have run away.
From the original first posting:
I thought it would be nice to start a thread on exactly what my thoughts are on why the spouse tends to run away during their crisis. I have done a lot of reading and listening to my friend about his thoughts and feelings during his crisis. So here goes.
Generally the man/woman in crisis has had a terrible childhood. Their childhoods consisted of parents that fought, drank, did drugs, physically and mentally abused their children, emotionally distanced themselves from their children, but most of all abandoned their children. The more I read about the various "learned" personality traits, the more I'm convinced that as children they were mentally abused to the point of not believing in themselves at all. They felt dirty, unwanted, stupid, worthless, their self esteem was shot to hell. The parents had these children, but really didn't love them unconditionally. Most of the "crisis" children have ADHD, ADD, PA, BPD, NP traits. They suffer from bouts of depression, are very good at lying, picking fights, defensive, and tend to self-medicate with alcohol, drugs, sex and spending. As I've listened to my friend, I've come to realize that even though "crisis" children appear normal on the outside, they have a constant internal war going on inside of themselves. They have been damaged beyond repair at that young age and it will take many years for them to even feel safe w/another person, if then. They feel very threatened by anyone that comes near them emotionally and physically. They can't handle it because they fear that this person will hurt them or take away whatever it is that they hold near and dear in their lives. As the "crisis" child grows up, he/she tends to be a loner, stays to him/herself and doesn't trust anyone to enter their safety zone. They tend to not show their emotions except in bouts of anger and are very guarded about their thoughts and feelings. They tend to distance themselves from others. I call this the dance, because when a person gets close to the "crisis" individual, he/she will distance enough to not feel threatened. You the spouse will never know the real person that lives within the "crisis" person until the two personalities are merged into one. The person you know is actually the shell of a person and he/she is very good at masking what he/she is really thinking at all times. However, during the major growing times, i.e., 20's, 30, and 40's (mid-life especially), the "crisis" person has another problem. It's at this time that the "crisis" child is starting to raise its ugly head, becomes stronger and wants to voice it's opinions on how that person was mistreated as a child. It's at this time, that the splintering/splitting occurs. This is where the crisis child is doing internal battle with the crisis adult. The battle is a 24/7 emotional roller coaster for the adult. The pain, hurt and anger are there 24/7 w/o any relief. I've sat and listened to my friend speak of many things that happened in his childhood and to hear the hurt and anguish in his voice makes me want to cry for him. It is at this time when the emotional pain becomes so great that the adult can't handle any other stress in his/her life. This person doesn't trust the spouse enough to speak about the turmoil inside. They feel that the spouse will not accept them for who they are right at this moment. Why? Because that person has now entered mlc and will be there for a while. That person knows that something is terribly wrong and knows that he/she must leave in order to heal those long ago hurts. If you recall, as children, when we were scared or punished, we all wanted to run away. Remember those times? Well, this is what is happening to your mlcer. They are very scared and very hurt and they only thing that they know how to do is run, as he "crisis" child comes on the scene. The best thing that this person can do for himself/herself is to go see their parents, sit down and actually talk to their parents about how they perceived their childhood and tell the parents just how hurt and angry they are for how they were mistreated. If they don't do this, it will take longer for them to heal.
As spouses and friends of the mlcers, we must always keep in mind that they are in a very fragile state when the "crisis" child gains control. They are so confused and hurt. The anger is not at you, but at what life has dished out to them. It's the hurt coming out and it's really a delayed reaction to how they were mistreated as children. We have to remember to treat them kindly and with compassion during this time. Why? Because this could have happened to you. During the "crisis" child stage, you will be viewed as the mother/father authority figure, therefore you are the one that gets the brunt of what is happening. They are afraid to speak to their parents for fear of what the parents will do to them. Who better than us to get the emotional flack? They know we love them, they just don't know how to deal with the emotional pain that goes so very deep. Folks, I've had many long conversations w/my friend and I can tell you, he is suffering terribly from his "crisis" childhood. Until he resolves his issues and speaks to his father, he will continue to run and never heal.
I hope that this will help some of you better understand what is happening. I'd welcome all of your comments. As time goes by, I'll post more of my thoughts and observations. Mlc is not a pretty sight by any means, especially if the mlcer is willing to sit down and speak to you about how he/she is feeling. That's why it is so very important to be a friend during the crisis. You will learn so much more about what is going on. Keep the expectations to zero and I feel very strongly that your spouse's "crisis" child will speak to you. Listen carefully, sift through the garbage coming out of their mouths and the answers are all there. It's not about you, but about them and how they were mistreated as children.
Take care.
Again, these are my thoughts on the subject.
VERY enlightening. Goodness.
Empathy is not a strong suit of mine. Yet another thing to work on.
Job,
This thread brought me so much comfort in the early days after Smokey left. Thanks for bringing it back. I needed it today. It's not about us. They are broken.
This is true. So true. J's sisters (and his brother) have all told ms stories about their childhood that I found incredibly horrifying. I always felt so bad that J had to endure that trauma growing up. I never figured that dysfunction would come back to attack me, the only one who ever had J's back.
Sometimes I wonder if it is really a crisis J is going through, but some of the things he says and does are so off the wall, there really isn't any other explanation.
Reminds me of the song "Broken Wings" by Mr. Mister. Oh boy did I just date myself.
WH
My H and his family are very disconnected from each other. It is alarming to see how they fail to function as a family unit. For the first two decades of our marriage I nagged H to call every two weeks and it became a source of tension between us. It was a huge mistake to interfere that way but I was young and not aware how my actions could mask things. Once I decided to let him deal with his own family he just avoided them. Then a few years went by and he treated me and our children the same way. His siblings are also extremely detached but not in a healthy way. He is the only one who had children.
As I apply the DB tactics I must admit there is a real fear that H will never face the trauma of his childhood and/or his ability to run away and avoid at all costs is rooted in his DNA. Of course, I must work on my issues and look to change myself.
Thanks for some perspective that helps clarify things.
My h childhood.
Father very abusive to mother. 5 kids poor. Mother worked all the time.
1 sister did not talk for a couple years.
Father also chronic cheater....died of heart attack in another woman's house...
My h as oldest son was sent to house to get the family car.
Only thing h ever said about was his dad was he only came home to beat his mom have sex or take whatever money was in house.
When h mom died h was very depressed and angry sat home took time off from work like 4 months.
But my h says his childhood does not affect him as an adult.
He holds in a lot of feelings. We have never argued in front of son or public...we very rarely argue...h thinks feelings are a sign of weakness.
Will he ever come out of crisis...if he is in crisis?
My ex never expressed how she felt. In fact she lied often or kept info from me. She is a loner and has very few friends. Thinking back she blamed me for not having friends..Interesting post Job.
So accurate. My H was horribly treated in his childhood. Abandoned by father, brought up poor without enough to eat, first memory is of waitung in car while mom "hooked up" with some guy. Left with whomever was around to babysit which led to sex abuse by various babysitters, punished strictly, twice in elementary school walked in on mothers suicide attempt and had to call 911 to save his mom, stepfather entered picture at age 12, promptly "educates" H by having them watch porn together, is whipped with coaxial cables for forgetting to dust the light bulbs, PE teacher saw the welts, H removed from home for a while and then returned, Etc
And yes, he is a loner with no friends, sees that the purpose of money is to buy "status" items, and has a facade of being the nice guy.
Then he lives with us and sees how I treat my children with love and respect. That I try to seek understanding before I decide on discipline; if it were up to him they would be punished punitively for small infractions. Does not understand why I don't expect my children to leave the house as soon as they turn 18, really disagrees with helping them pay for college. Doesn't get why I will leave our bed to comfort a daughter who was crying because a nightmare woke her up.
I think the dichotomy between my kids' upbringing and his own blew his mind and triggered the MLC
Missmeg,
Nope, the dichtomony between your kids' upbringing and his didn't blow his mind and trigger his MLC. Something happened in the last 18-24 months that triggered his trip down MLC Lane. What happened? Did he lose a position, health issue, family and/or co-worker death, a new baby, child graduating from high school, etc.?
Thanks Job!!!!!!
This brought me so much comfort in those earliest days. Sooo much comfort.
3.5 years down the road and it has all been revealed to be so accurate, it's scary.
These individuals are in a shidload of pain. In Matt's case, you can SEE the pain of the past three years written on his face. Still, it's NOT us who can solve it, fix it, even comfort. It's something they need to do for themselves. Like a toddler trying to learn independence.
After reading the first 4-5 sentences, it could describe my childhood to a T. It really could. Alcoholic father, mother who spent all of her time clinging to him that we kids suffered. Emotional abuse was heavy, and we had little self esteem. We were never encouraged to do anything risky, or fun. The only goal my parents had for us kids was we had to be out of the house at 18.
After reading this all, I was set up for the MLC. Even if I had a MLC, I think it was beneficial to my wife. Right after my Dad died 4 years ago, I got in shape, bought new clothes, we had lots of dinner parties at our house, and we started traveling the globe. I became more social, and we spent more time with each other. I thought our relationship was the best it had ever been, We talked to all of our friends about collecting experiences over things.
My wife's family life was far different, her parents adored her, did everything in the world for her as an only child. She resisted the material items though. However, she was never really allowed to grow up, and even today, at 44, her parents treat her as a child. I don't know that she's ever had an adult conversation with her parents.
Now, this spring, she joined a new running club and connected with a divorced man in the group. He pursued, she comparison level shopped and they became fast friends. Suddenly, his life of adventure and fun -- 10 day hiking trips, camping, kayaking, trail running, etc -- became what she wanted. When BD, all she could say is "I Love You, but there is so much I want to do in life that I know you don't want to do. Life is far too short." Then proceeded to unload on me about every thing she hated about our marriage. Sure, it wasn't perfect, and we'd not been as attentive to each other the month before, but I didn't think it was enough to run.
Anyway, enjoyed reading this post, job.
jjal,
You may very well have had a very, very mild MLC and have far better coping skills than those who go full blown. You are one of the lucky ones that didn't experience a full blown crisis. Not all MLC folks go into full blown crisis. Some touch on it and others destroy everything in their path. It all depends upon the person, childhood, coping skills, personality, etc.
All you can do is hope and pray that your wife navigates her crisis and finds her way back to you and your family.
job,
I was telling a friend that I think this is just as much about her mother as it is about me. Upon reflection, those mom issues were intense the last 4-5 months. She threw a home phone one night while talking to her mother. It exploded in 20 pieces and damaged the hardwood floors. She was in a rage ... all because her mother kept asking where we were that weekend.
Honestly, after having dealt with my Dad as a kid, I had good coping skills already.
jjal,
You are not the problem. Only own 50% of the breakdown of your marriage...but understand...this is her journey and one that started when she was a young girl. Yes, she's got mommy issues and there's nothing you can do about it. You didn't break her, therefore you can fix and/or control her and what she does right now.
Your wife will need to work through her crisis on her own, at her own pace and hopefully she'll come through to the other side.
job,
Yep, I am working on the issues I know I am responsible for. And trying to forgive myself for those things.
It truly is her journey, and I am letting her have it. I'm using the LRT because she moved out. And GAL, while tough, has kept me busy and a better friend to a few folks.
Job, we got married 24 months ago. 18 months ago he gave up his real estate job, because he wasn't making it, and took an office job.
Missmeg,
Sounds like your h had quite a few things going on in the last 24 months. It could one of the things you mentioned or it could be all of them....but understand, they are nothing more than triggers. He was going to have a crisis no matter what and if it weren't w/you, it would have been w/someone else or as a single guy. So, please do not blame yourself for his crisis. It has been percolating for quite some time.
As for your children, MLCers are known to become resentful/jealous of children during the crisis. Competition w/the children could come out to play, i.e., vying for "mom's" attention, validation and affirmation and yes approval for the things that he does. So, if he does something for you or around the home, be sure to acknowledge him.
Also, MLCers will become a buddy w/one child. Generally it is w/the child that won't challenge/ask questions. It's usually the child that is the easiest to deal with. But, that comes along juat a bit later.
For now, leave him to his crisis. Take care of yourself and your children. Watch your bank account and credit cards. If he pays the bills, make sure that they are paid. They do love to spend money and don't care about what happens to the spouse or the family. It's all about them. The song is "me, me, me" that they sing each and every day.
Please, please take care of yourself. He is not the same person that you knew and loved. He's different now and will be for a while.
My husband has said he had a horrible childhood. His mom would get off work and go to her other house with her boyfriend. He would cry for her at night. She left him for months at a time with his aunt. She was verbally abusive to him. He was abused by his stepdad. He said he would just stay in his room all the time because of how he was treated.
Thanks Job. I'm still not sure it's MLC. I know that sounds like I am naive and/or in denial (and maybe I am) but somethings don't seem to "jibe" with what I am hearing about MLC. Like:
-There is no affair, emotional or otherwise. But he is working 7 days a week- so maybe that is how he is alienating.
-he is generous with the money. He hasn't been on any spending sprees. He is doing everything he can to provide me and the kids with funds. Has said it is his intention that we feel no financial impact because of his decision to leave, down to making sure I have enough to cover the extras we have had in the family…In fact he explicitly mentioned he didn't even want me to be in the position of dropping HBO from our cable package. We have separate accounts and he made arrangements for the paychecks he receives the 15th of each month to be directly deposited to my account.
-he hasn't been mean. I hear people talk about "the monster" and how MLCers are critical and have no happy memories of the M. He has acknowledged this is in him and is nothing about me or the kids
-he initiates contact and asks me out. We went on two dates last week, hung out the beginning of this week, and are going out again tonight
So I am curious. Obviously he is a WAH because he is out of the house and states that he is done with the marriage. Can one be a WAH WITHOUT it being a MLC?
Bottom line it doesn't really matter what label I apply …what matters is he has left the marriage and I need to move forward and take care of myself and my kids.
Sure, they can be walkaways w/o having a MLC. But, you will db and will follow the exact same advice that all of the forums offer: detach, live your life to the fullest and find GAL activities and keep the focus on you and your family and last but not least...watch your assets/finances.
Sounds like his addiction is work.
Do you have your own thread on the Board? If so, direct me to it and I'll be happy to read more about your situation.
Missmeg,
I found your thread and posted my thoughts on your h's situation.
Hi, Job
I'm still a little bit of a newcomer and trying to figure where I belong. I don't want to hijack this thread. Just wondering if you might read my thread, flailing, on newcomers forum and give me your opinion if I should find a way to bring it here to MLC?
I'm not sure how to do that yet, but will figure it out. Also, what about the MLC in someone who had an ideal childhood?
I've responded to your question about MLC in someone who had an ideal childhood over on your thread.
You nailed this one Job. That is spot on.
I hope that is the case with my WAW, but her situation is a little different. Her parents still coddle her. She wants to be on her own, but never has. She has been with them a year now and has put me through hell emotionally and financially. She says she is going to get her own place, but I am not sure she will leave her parents, as they want her there with them. It is one of the main reasons we had troubles in our 17 year marriage (their interference). Unfortunately, she has issues that were caused by them, but she doesn't see it. Instead she blames me. Not sure if hers is a MLC because she is classic PAPD even though she won't admit it and her parents are enablers to her behavior. She and her parents blame everyone (especially me) for everything. This is the third time she has left me, but this time she actually filed.
I saw someone above talk about hijacking a thread. Did I just do that? If so, I apologize. I am not that keen on these forums.
Clay,
No, you didn't hijack this thread. It is for all to post to. As for your wife, she wasn't afforded the opportunity to grow up, become independent and be her own woman. Her parents are still coddling her. She has some issues to resolve w/them because they've stunted her emotional growth and it doesn't necessarily mean she had a bad childhood, but they've smothered her.
Of course, she's going to blame you. You are part of the package, i.e., marriage/relationship, that she's not happy w/right now. It has to be you that is creating all of the unhappiness in her life...but guess what...it's all about her and resolving her issues w/her family. Blood is thicker than water and they will believe anything she tells them.
Let her go! She needs to figure things out and the only way to do so is to just let her go. Take care of yourself and this includes your finances. Get her off your accounts and your credit cards as soon as possible. She's not your friend right now and, in fact, she's fired you as her husband. Keep the focus on you for now.
Thanks Job. I Know everyone tells me to focus on myself and detach, but I have had the hardest time doing that. I think about her every day and besides being ADHD myself, am quite distracted by losing her.
Yes. Unfortunately, they have always believed everything she does and have blamed me for things they have never seen.
I am realizing though that I have some issues of my own to work out, but the difficult part is getting her back. Since she has gone and told her entire extended family how horrible I have been, I am afraid pride and pleasing her parents will keep her from returning, unless she actually does grow.
Great post Job
Fits mine to a T
I have 2 D's that are teens, that W decided to give up 100%
had no friends and I'm the cause of it all.
She got a flat tire one day and of course it was me
This is so helpful, I see so much of my H in that post.
One thing that stands out in my situation, which I read someone bring up, is the jealousy of my relationship with my son. The more loving and nurturing I am with him, the angrier H gets. It is also the one single thing he blows up at me about consistently. My nurturing and loving nature with my son, my talking through issues with him instead of straight to punishment, infuriates my husband. It is perceived by him as coddling and spoiling. The sad part is, he joins forces with his mom and they gang up on me.
The more time that goes by, the more I believe this all has something to do with his mother during childhood. I truly fear he will never face whatever it is, but I hope for his own sake he does to find some peace within himself.
This post was really helpful and I will continue to re-read it. Thank you Job!
You nailed this one Job. That is spot on.
I hope that is the case with my WAW, but her situation is a little different. Her parents still coddle her. She wants to be on her own, but never has. She has been with them a year now and has put me through hell emotionally and financially. She says she is going to get her own place, but I am not sure she will leave her parents, as they want her there with them. It is one of the main reasons we had troubles in our 17 year marriage (their interference). Unfortunately, she has issues that were caused by them, but she doesn't see it. Instead she blames me. Not sure if hers is a MLC because she is classic PAPD even though she won't admit it and her parents are enablers to her behavior. She and her parents blame everyone (especially me) for everything. This is the third time she has left me, but this time she actually filed.
It seems like we have similar situations. My husbands mom has always been the biggest problem. I am blamed for everything from him. His mom blames everyone for anything too.
Thanks Job. I Know everyone tells me to focus on myself and detach, but I have had the hardest time doing that. I think about her every day and besides being ADHD myself, am quite distracted by losing her.
Yes. Unfortunately, they have always believed everything she does and have blamed me for things they have never seen.
I am realizing though that I have some issues of my own to work out, but the difficult part is getting her back. Since she has gone and told her entire extended family how horrible I have been, I am afraid pride and pleasing her parents will keep her from returning, unless she actually does grow.
This is exactly how i feel. I think he wants to please his mom. He has said things to me that I have heard her say previously.
Clay,
For now, your main focus has to be on YOU. You are very normal because we all were/are distracted when our spouses walk out the door or say that that are done and start acting out. Who wouldn't be? Why is that? Because we are hit right between the eyes and never actually saw it coming because their feelings and behavior change gradually over time and we "assume" that they are just moody or something has gone wrong in their work, etc. They begin detaching from us at least 18-24 months (or longer) from us...so they have a head start on separating from us emotionally and in some cases, physically.
Parents, unless they are physically present 24/7, generally will believe what their children tell them. She may have been talking to them for a while about being unhappy, not feeling connected to you or the relationship. This is very normal and yes, parents will believe their children because blood is thicker than water. MLCers vilify the spouses and what they stand for. It's the only way that they can justify leaving. Some parents will eventually begin to see that things aren't exactly as their children have told them, but that's later, much later in the crisis.
As for getting her back, well, you are going to have to let her go and figure things out for herself. The more you try to convince her to return and work on things, the more she's going to pull away. I know, it's difficult because I've been there myself many years ago. As for the pride and pleasing her parents, no one knows what the future holds and she just may get sick of her parents and their smothering her as she grows up...but until then, you will need to make a life for yourself, i.e., start living it as if she may not return. Your wife's journey has only begun and it's going to take a long time for her to experience life as a teenager once again and then grow up.
There's nothing you can do for her except pray for her. You didn't break her, therefore you can't fix her. The only person that you have control over is yourself. For today, start a list of things that you would like to do that you've not had a chance to do and begin thinking about doing them. Do not put your life on hold because this is not a sprint, but a marathon.
Job is right about them detaching/changing way before the actual bomb. Mine began changing at least 2 years before. In 2009 my eyes became blurry when reading. I rember placing stamps on some envelopes. I didnt see that the stamps were upside down cause my eyes were getting old. Exw saw the envelopes and with a serious look said "I dont know why they dont put you in jail". When I look back the signs were there we just dont make much of it as Job states.
You nailed this one Job. That is spot on.
I hope that is the case with my WAW, but her situation is a little different. Her parents still coddle her. She wants to be on her own, but never has. She has been with them a year now and has put me through hell emotionally and financially. She says she is going to get her own place, but I am not sure she will leave her parents, as they want her there with them. It is one of the main reasons we had troubles in our 17 year marriage (their interference). Unfortunately, she has issues that were caused by them, but she doesn't see it. Instead she blames me. Not sure if hers is a MLC because she is classic PAPD even though she won't admit it and her parents are enablers to her behavior. She and her parents blame everyone (especially me) for everything. This is the third time she has left me, but this time she actually filed.
It seems like we have similar situations. My husbands mom has always been the biggest problem. I am blamed for everything from him. His mom blames everyone for anything too.
Doe your H's mom accuse you of things she has never seen you do as if they were firsthand knowledge? My MIL does that frequently. Her daughter can do no wrong.
I hope my W grows a little, but there is a chance she will never move out, as there is an unhealthy co-dependency between her and her parents. She is 43.
I got the final paperwork last night from my attorney that I need to sign and send back So it can be entered into judgement. I just bawled, as I am sti in disbelief and feel betrayed.
I know you are all right about detaching. I believe she has had one foot out the door during our entire marriage. This is the third time she has left and she always runs to her parents who leave the door wide open for her and she knows it. I told my 24 year old if she were to do that, I would tell her to go home and fix her marriage. Her reply was "Dad, I would never do that." My wife's parents want her there.
What her parents are doing is called "enabling". I have a similar situation in my own family w/my sister and my mother. I have told my mother many times over, allow my sister to finger things out for herself. After all, my mother won't be around forever to hold my sister's hand and I certainly won't be doing it.
My xh told my MIL many things that weren't true and she believed him for a while. Eventually she figured out that something was no on the up and up. BTW, during all of that time, I did not try to defend myself w/them. I figured if they believed his lies, then it was on them to figure it out.
What her parents are doing is called "enabling".
Right. I have heard that term many times for the behavior they have. I have also been told that I was an enabler as well because I needed to go to extra lengths to keep her happy.
My xh told my MIL many things that weren't true and she believed him for a while. Eventually she figured out that something was no on the up and up. BTW, during all of that time, I did not try to defend myself w/them. I figured if they believed his lies, then it was on them to figure it out.
I always tried to defend myself when my MIL would accuse me of things. It always ended up in an uncomfortable disagreement. When we would leave to go home, my W would get mad at me, but she said she was mad at both me and her mother. She never did defend me because she is still seeking their approval. My mother knows if she were ever to attack my wife, I would get upset and not come back. That is what spouses are supposed to do for each other.
Thank you for this post. I see my husband as you describe your friend's pain.
So knowing this, how do I stay compassionate and loving through the mediation process? There are some issues which I absolutely have to stand firm on, for my sake and our son's. I'm sure that will put me firmly in the category of authority figure/unsafe person. The alternative would mean getting financially annihilated.
I cannot allow that to happen to our child or myself. We deserve a safe, clean place to live. He deserves to stay at his school - he is an honors student and a great athlete who continues to work hard. He shouldn't be punished or made to experience a re-play of my husband's screwed up childhood.
My husband hasn't spoken to his father since 1995. His mother and I both think it would be beneficial for him to have a discussion, but he is adamantly opposed to it - or at least he was last time we discussed such matters, pre-bd. Now he's just hell-bent of destroying our lives, selling our house, divorce, etc. It has felt for a long time like he's trying to re-create his childhood trauma (the bitterest divorce I"ve ever heard of). He's even rented an apartment a few blocks from the house his parents owned prior to their divorce. In fact, he was the paperboy for one of his current neighbors. He's been in therapy for four years. The therapist should issue him a refund, imo. WTF?
We are in mediation, and one example of how he is trying to replay his childhood was glaring: he is adamant that our son pay for at least part of college himself - 33% to be exact. That's absurd. Saddling a 23 year old kid right out of school with potentially 70K in debt. "My parents didn't give me a dime for my college education!" So you REPEAT THAT PATTERN??????? Because it was such a great power of example????
I have been beyond patient, compassionate, loving and kind through this process. My close confidantes and my therapist have all said I've taken an exceptionally compassionate attitude, especially given the various things he's done and said. I'm not saying that to put myself on some pedastal or in the victim seat. I say it because it's true, I have the utmost in compassion and love for my husband and the pain he is suffering. I would give anything to be able to help him through this. All I can do is pray, love him and stay out of his way while he goes through it, I guess. My struggle here is how to balance fierce compassion with taking care of business. Suggestions please? Next mediation session is in a few days. Many thanks
There is no easy answer btt. The advice I was given is to treat divorce as a business deal. They broke a contract. I gave full control to my L and it worked out ok for me. I put my heart in a box and on a shelf while my D went through. He is going to be angry no matter the outcome. Protect your son and you.
Bttrfly, I struggle with the same thing...how to stay compassionate while standing firm. Based on advice from Job, it's listening to them and being friendly, but at the same time, setting boundaries that protect you and standing firm on them.
I always end up feeling like the villain. In reality, we are just trying to a stop any further damage. The one thing I plan on fighting for is my home. The same reasons you mentioned, S loves his school, his friends and excels in class. I won't allow H to ruin that.
I am sure the vets will have some good advice on that. It's tough!
My W has been pretty nasty throughout this whole process and tried to make me out as the villain as well.
I have tried to treat this like a business deal, but my heart is wrapped up in it too.
I think my D will be final in a couple months and I am still trying to save it. I feel like I am on Death Row awaiting My execution.
My therapist has told me to go dark, but my heart and mind still want to try logic. Unfortunately, my W keeps bringing up things from 18 years ago and practices All-Or-Nothing (black and white) thinking (reinforced by her parents), so I am not sure it will help. The ship is sinking. Shouldn't I try to find a way to save it?
My W has been pretty nasty throughout this whole process and tried to make me out as the villain as well.
I have tried to treat this like a business deal, but my heart is wrapped up in it too.
I think my D will be final in a couple months and I am still trying to save it. I feel like I am on Death Row awaiting My execution.
My therapist has told me to go dark, but my heart and mind still want to try logic. Unfortunately, my W keeps bringing up things from 18 years ago and practices All-Or-Nothing (black and white) thinking (reinforced by her parents), so I am not sure it will help. The ship is sinking. Shouldn't I try to find a way to save it?
Clay234,
My STBX has been doing the same thing and her parents and family member's are buying into it. Even some of our friends have bought into it. I hate it because they are just enabling her to keep this going. It hurts that I have small children in the middle of all this.
I'm just trying to keep my chin up and remember that I am know who I am and eventually the truth will prevail.
Whyus,
Are you still trying to save it? Is there any chance of reconcilliation?
My W quit MC after 2 months even though she committed to 6 months, as per the request of the MC. She doesn't understand that it doesntvhapoen overnight. I think She thinks the concept is like forcing two positive sides of a magnet together.
My ex never expressed how she felt. In fact she lied often or kept info from me. She is a loner and has very few friends.
My W did the same thing. She always had secrets (hiding money, private mailboxes, bank accounts, credit cards,). My W is a pathological liar. She lies even when she doesn't need to. It is common for a Passive-Aggressive. PAs do not express their feelingd often. They keep it bottled up and then just explode.
My W did not tell me anything was bothering her. I think She was waiting for an argument. When the last one happened, she said (angrily) "this marriage is over"
Sounds like your ex is similar.
The best thing that this person can do for himself/herself is to go see their parents, sit down and actually talk to their parents about how they perceived their childhood and tell the parents just how hurt and angry they are for how they were mistreated. If they don't do this, it will take longer for them to heal.
The problem with this as in the case with my W, is if there is misplaced anger as you pointed out and repressed memories due dissociation, those people may never realize the root of it.
Also, when a person like my W is afraid to disappoint his/her parents, there may never come a time when they have the guts to do this.
There's an interesting read about this called ...that I am sure has been passed around DB at some point. It talks about how children emulate their parents, so if the parents are negative people, the child copies that behavior, as he/she is seeking their approval. What happens is, the parents react negatively to the child's behavior and it becomes a viscous cycle. At least that is what I remember of it. I couldn't find a hyperlink for it, but it is the first thing that comes up in a Google search.
Clay,
Eventually some of them will talk to their parents about how they perceived their childhoods. Again, it's up to that person to do this. If they don't, well...it may churn and churn within them for many years to come and they are lost souls. Some of them may seek professional help at some point and again, some don't...but as the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink". If they seek professional help, they may begin to see why they feel the way they do and how their childhoods have affected them. But, again, as I pointed out, they have to be the ones that want help.
We can sit here all day and try to come up w/personality disorders, etc., that may fit our spouses, but the bottom line is this...only a professional who interacts w/them on a routine basis can actually diagnose what's truly going on w/them.
For now, keep the focus on you and allow God to work on your wife. The more you focus on her, the less you are focusing on you and your life. There's absolutely nothing you can do for her, but pray that she finds inner peace.
bttrfly,
When it comes to mediation and/or divorce, you can still be compassionate, but you also need to be firm. Your marriage was alike a business contract and it has been broken. You need to stand firm and fight for what is right for you. If you want your child to stay in the school where he is at, then you need to be firm when stipulating this during mediation.
As for your h not speaking to his father since 1995. My first question is...what happened between the two of them? You can't push him to speak to his father...this is something he will need to do for himself, if ever. As for the therapist, your h could very well not be telling him the full truth. Are you sure he's still in therapy after all of this time?
Yes, all you can do is pray for him. You can be compassionate and civil, but that doesn't mean you roll over and give him everything that he wants. Set your boundaries and fight for what you want for you and your son. If you don't stand firm for your son, his father won't.
Good luck w/your mediation.
Clay.
I want to still be in it, I really do. I am just losing hope. There has been so much damage caused by the lies that WW has told. I feel uncomfortable even going to my children's school at times. Since the kids are with her most of the time, our friends spend more her because their kids want to play.
WW takes things and either embellishes the truth or completely fabricates parts of the story. It is really hard because WW is really respected in our community because of her profession. People just believe her because they know she has been a good person.
Strange thing is that WW does not have friends from her childhood, not even high school or college. I think she changed when she met me and is now falling back into her old ways. It just scares me because the more she lies I feel like the less likely she will be to change her ways. I think she is more likely to double down. I am guessing that one day she will eventually have a melt down psychotic break.
WhyUs,
If you want to continue to have hope, there's no shame in that, but you need to let her go and you need to live your life as if she is never coming back.
As for the lies, well, if you know they are lies, then please do not allow them to deter you from going to your children's school when needed. There will be people who will believe her and then there will be others that will sit back and watch how things play out and come to realize what is going on. Right now, your w is wearing a mask and playing the victim. Eventually, that mask will crack, lose it's shape and begin to slip. They can't wear it forever because it takes a lot of time and energy to put on that happy face and act a little bit normal in profession. Trust me, it will slip in time.
As she progresses in her crisis, the mirror image will come into play, i.e, the exact opposite of the good wife that you knew and loved will be replaced completely w/the self absorbed, selfish teenager that needs to go back and revisit her youth where she was emotionally stunted. She will need to do this in order to grow up and it takes a lot of time for her to do so.
While she's out there playing the cheerleader all over again, you need to find things to do for yourself. Make a list of the things that you've always wanted to and start whittling that list down. Plans things w/your children, exercise, get out there and join a gym. You have been given the gift of time to rediscover the man you once were.
Will she return to the marriage? No one knows...but if she doesn't, you will be further along the path and will have faced the pain and worked through it to be a far better man and who knows....some day, down that road, you may meet someone who will cherish you for the man that you are. Will it be your wife? It may or may not be...but the bottom line is this, if that time should ever come and she wants to reconcile, you will be the one to determine if you want to try again w/her.
For now, live your life to the fullest. Life is far too short to allow this one to steal another minute of your time. Keep the focus on you and your children.
Job,
I agree with you. Unfortunately the therapist she is seeing now doesn't see these traits in her. We saw her together about 7 years ago and she disagreed with me about my W's traits, but two other clinicians have suggested BPD.
We were seeing a well-known therapist last year after the split, but my W stopped going. She said the T she is seeing now understands her better. The one we were seeing before specializes in treating BPs and PAs, but she called my W out a couple times because W lied to her. W disagreed with her and the T said " I am very good at taking notes during each session and I have written down what you said." I think that made W uncomfortable.
Unfortunately, people with childhood issues like that don't stick with one T for very long for that reason. They need someone to massage their egos and tell them what they want to year.
I am hoping the one she is seeing eventually helps her figure it out, but I am not confident she will. I think what my W is doing is mean and selfish, but I have to remind myself that she didn't do this to herself. I do love her unconditionally.
I just spoke with my attorney a little while ago and she said after o sign the judgement next week, it will be entered by the court and will be final in about 10 days from that. I am at work right now. I am a supervisor at a new job and I can hardly hold myself up, but I have to fake it. Right now I am in an office with nobody around and cannot hold back the tears.
Clay,
I'm very sorry, but you will get thru this. Cry, shout, beat something up, but you need to work thru this pain. I know it doesn't look good right now, but things will get better in time.
Are you aware that there is something called the "Chameleon Effect" that is part of the BPD? If you aren't, you may want to check it out.
Again, I'm very sorry about what you've learned today.
I have known it was coming, but hoping there was a way for her to change her mind.
Clay, I have no advise, but your posts are very touching. I am truly sorry you find yourself here. You know, it seems the man upstairs tests us in hopes to make us stronger. You seem like a caring person, I hope you find some peace.
Thank you mleigh. I appreciate your concern.
I only wish I understood earlier about depression and PDs. I don't know if I would have had more patience because I am not a patient person, but it might have made things a little easier. I always thought people who were depressed like she should just grow up and "snap out of it". I feel so bad now for my ignorance in thinking that way. She was already damaged when I met her and the way I responded to her crazy-making just made it worse. The angry outbursts and tantrums are hard to ignore though.
I am finding out now that I most likely have ADHD. I have thought that for years, but didn't know that it is much much more than just lack of attention. I am trying to get the VA to dx me, but the pdoc told me they don't really treat that. I have been on Buproprion for 5 wks (currently on 400mg) and it has done absolutely nothing. I am also going to look into DBT, as my T said it might help me.
thx Rick. Yes, I can do that split and treat it as a business deal most of the time. It's just very hard, especially knowing that what is motivating this for him is fear and pain. I wish I could do something, anything... I love him. I would carry this burden for him if I could. I think part of the issue here that's causing him such fear is that we've always been together - he's never really been on his own since he was 21 or 22, and judging from some of the things he's said during mediation, he's afraid of that. I've always been the one with the better business sense. It makes me so sad.
thanks Mleigh. I don't know that I feel like a villain so much as I'm not sure how standing firm wouldn't further alienate. Regardless, I must take care of myself and our son. One shouldn't rely on the weakest link for support.
ok, to try to sum up the betrayals of a lifetime in a few short sentences will be hard. I guess first my FIL was a very emotionally abusive man who was always jealous of my husband, even when husband was a baby. post his parents divorce, my FIL hooked up w/ and impregnated another woman who was fresh from a miserable marriage. He then ignored my husband and his sibling in favor of Wife #2's many kids by her first marriage, and went on to have two more kids with wife #2. I have witnessed some pretty hurtful behavior over the years. Both MIL and FIL took our wedding as an oppty to re-open their divorce and their issues, with Step-MIL also adding to the BS. Finally my husband said, "enough!" It's not my place to say anything, but I do agree with my MIL that H would probably get some relief if he told his father how hurtful his behavior has been all these years. I don't think the cutting off is bad in this case but whenever you cut off there's a price to pay. We're all paying that price now.
I think he is lying to his therapist (whom he sees about once a month) because the therapist had been our marriage counselor 10 years ago when my husband was first diagnosed with hypothyroidism. my husband starting seeing the therapist again for individual counseling about 4 years ago when he went into a depression precipitated by a work event that should have made him very happy - sale of company - but instead made him go into a deep depression. According to H, he's been telling the therapist how miserable he is with me for YEARS (his therapy had nothing to do with work), and whenever the therapist would suggest I come in, H would immediately veto it. He never told me therapist suggested my presence until he'd dropped the bomb and moved out. Makes me feel like he never wanted our marriage to succeed and like there's no point in trying to save it.
Job,
Thank you for your support. I feel I am letting WW go. Now it is the inlaws and friends that I struggle with. I am getting better day by day.
I haven't signed the papers for final judgement to return to my attorney. I am stalling and I know this is going to make W angry, but I am trying to figure out a way to talk to her one more time before it is entered into judgement to ask if she will consider MC. Let us become friends again, work on ourselves and then see if we can make it work. I know I cannot control her and I am not trying to do that. I am just trying to prevent something that is irreversible and that she may regret.
I am pretty sure she will say "no" because she has been saying that through her atty for several months. She says "we don't belong together. We are too different." She brings up things from 18 years ago and says "That should have been a clue to me not to marry you."
I think subconsciously (or maybe even consciously)her main motivation is pleasing her parents, as I am quite sure they encouraged the divorce.
The kids are already acting differently, but she doesn't think it has effected them that much. She said "the kids wanted this to happen". They have told me otherwise, but W says they are just telling me that because they don't want to hurt my feelings. D2 said "I hope you can be friends"
When I was in Afghanistan 5 years ago, she was the best friend I ever had. She would e-mail me regularly, send me sexy notes and pictures and tell me all the things she wanted to do to and with me upon my return and gave me the best support I could ask for. The conditions over there didn't matter to me because I always thought of her and the things she would write to me. She would go to the store and get whatever I asked for and rush to the post office with it. It was amazing. I was looking through the e-mails last night and I am wondering where that person is. I cannot get her to see through the fog to those times. I know that it is all-or-nothing thinking, but I am too stubborn to give up.
I started to write her a letter last night.
Here is part of what I said:
"I wanted to take this time to write to you one last time before the transition in our status as a couple. I know we will be communicating over the next few years, but not like we have in the past. So I hope you will read and listen to what I have to say"
I apologized to her for some of the things I had said in the past that may have hurt her and some of the times even when I had a reason to be upset, I overreacted. I told her that although I am not 100% responsible for everything, I would admit my faults and take responsibility for those.
"I am sorry you want to end our marriage and our friendship. I had wished you would reconsider and give it some time with you being on your own before making this decision. I feel like I am losing my best friend and it hurts."
"I will sign the papers and return them to my attorney this week"
"Before I close, I want to take this time to thank you for all you did for me and the support you gave me over the years and that I will never forget (this is what makes it hurt)."
Then I made a list of all the things I remember she had done for me over the years. I want to remember the good times.
I just don't know if I should make one more attempt or let the D go through and hope for another chance after the dust settles or make one more attempt at this.
Any advice from the forum? (I am going to duck my head and wait for the replies)
Clay,
I do not think u should send that letter. Telling her all those things is a waste of time. She will not be open to it right now. There is a last resort letter that people do write but it is not like your letter.
You will not be able to sppeal to her emotions by right now. From my understanding the letter should validate how she feels. You should let her know u do not agree with the divorce. Then tell her you will respect her decision to go because you care for her.
Clay,
I do not think u should send that letter. Telling her all those things is a waste of time. She will not be open to it right now.
Thanks WhyUS,
That is the answer I expected. The truth is, I AM desperate.
You will not be able to appeal to her emotions by right now. From my understanding the letter should validate how she feels. You should let her know u do not agree with the divorce.
Doesn't telling her I don't agree with the divorce invalidate her?
Then tell her you will respect her decision to go because you care for her.
This would not come across as saying "I Love you", right? I do, but I have read to stop saying that.
I cannot find anything on the LRT letter.
She told me a few weeks ago that she didn't ever want to be i a committed relationship. That doesn't mean she will sleep around. It just means she cannot handle being in a relationship where a lifestyle is shared.
Clay,
The LRT is something that we do not encourage unless you are absolutely sure you are done. If you are planning to use this as a means of trying to wake her up, it won't work. Please keep in mind, that no matter what you say or do, she will look at it as controlling and being manipulative, also, she will look at it as trying to make her feel guilty. What will she do? She'll be even more determined to go thru with a divorce.
If you write the letter, do so, but then put it away. Do not give it to her. Some day, you may be able to talk to her about what she's done...but for now, she'll not listen.
Here's the forum link that has info on the LRT. I am not aware of a standard LRT letter.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=72&page=1Also, be sure you post what is going on w/you on your own thread so that the posters in Newcomers' are aware of what is going on w/you currently.
We are getting a little bit off topic on this thread and I do not want to encourage posters to use the LRT as a method of trying to wake their spouses up. Let's stick to the topic of the thread. Okay?
Thanks Job.
Regarding MLC, as mentioned before, she is classic PA. Right now, she doesn't even want to be friends and avoids conversation with me at all costs. She pulls up in front of the house, drops off the kids and drives away as quickly as possible. Yesterday, I had to talk to her about one of the kids. We talked for about 30 minutes (I did not mention one thing about us)and she was pleasant. She has been hot and cold for the past year. Is it common for MLCers to not even want to be friends anymore and be very distant as if we are strangers? We have known each other over 20 years and she acts like we are just acquaintences.
Clay,
I suggest you do some research on MLC. What she did yesterday is very typical of a MLCer. You are no longer a part of her life. For all practical purposes in her mind, she divorced you a while ago. She's been on this journey at least 18-24 months prior dropping the bomb.
Right now, you are the enemy. You are the reason she feels the way she does. You are part of the marriage and unfortunately, you are part of the equation of why she's not happy. Believe me, it's not you...but her. Do an internet search of MLC. Read some of the other threads on MLC and learn that you can't be a true friend to her right now. When she's ready, she'll reach out.
Her behavior is normal for someone in MLC.
May I suggest that if you aren't happy over in Newcomers' that you start a thread here so that others may chime in since it appears that you aren't that familiar with MLC?
Clay I was with my ex 25 years and havent seen or spoken to her in over 3 years. It is how they behave. Any attempt to reason with her will be used to justify her actions. Try to live your life and be good to yourself.
Clay,
I suggest you do some research on MLC.
Can you tell me what resources there are for women in a MLC? I really haven't found much on the internet that applies. She has been a SAHM for the last 21 years including with her oldest son before we got married, so the links about women going through a MLC because they are not achieving their goals in the workplace or don't have a man in their lives, really don't apply.
Clay,
There are other forums out there that address the issue of MLC for women, but you'll need to "google" for them. We aren't allowed to post them here.
Whether she worked or stayed home, the bottom line is that she feels that she missed something along the way. She has some childhood issues that need to be resolved and until she resolves them, she'll continue in crisis.
Technically, the resources would be the same and the DB techniques would apply. No matter what you find in the way of research, there is no brass ring that will wake her up and bring her back to you. You have to still allow her to go through her crisis and if she begins to reconnect, then you'll need to be patient.
Thanks Job. I know she needs to go through this and I understand a lot of what she has gone through and what led her to this, but I am just trying to understand more. Thanks.
I suggest that you create your own thread, here in the MLC Forum, so that posters can assist you. There are many resources here on this forum and Cadet would be more than happy to post the "homework" assignments to your new thread. Posters then can follow you and you can ask all of the questions that you want on MLC. Also, there are many wonderful posters who would be more than willing to post to you and offer up suggestions and advice that have worked for them.
I suggest that you read some of the other threads and begin posting to others so that they can interact w/you and come visit your thread in Newcomers and here, when you create a thread.
Also, posters have been checking up on you on your thread over in Newcomers today. You might want to go there and update and let them know how you are doing.
I created this thread to help others better understand why the MLCing spouses run away. This thread should help you better understand that you are not at fault for their running, but their childhood issues come to the surface at midlife and they have to go back, revisit them, resolve them if possible, accept what they could or couldn't resolve and grow up.
Every person has life transitions, i.e., ages: 13, 20, 30, 40, etc. Most people are able to navigate those transitions smoothly and very seldom have a crisis take place. Why? Because they developed good, strong coping skills as they grew up.
Those who are unable to navigate some, if not all of those transitions, develop poor coping skills and when midlife looms in front of them, they can't cope. They begin to question their lives, i.e., are they where they wanted to be at this time in their lives, have I done all of the things I wanted to do, what did I miss out on and yes, they begin to get restless and when something comes along that hits the switch and they begin to detach from us, generally 18-24 months prior to the bomb, they become depressed and unhappy and think we are the reason for that unhappiness, just as they think the relationship is the problem as well.
Bottom line, it doesn't matter if they were a nun, a priest, an engineer, a stay at home mom, etc., if they had childhood issues and their coping skills are poor, they were destined to have a crisis because there are some things that they stuffed down for years and years that have now come to the surface and need to be faced head on and dealt w/in their own way. Whether they confront the people who stunted their emotional growth years ago or not, they will need to figure that out on their own. The saying around here is "you didn't break them, therefore you can't fix them" is a very true statement. Step back, detach and allow them the freedom to figure things out for themselves.
The best thing you can do is let them go and leave the door ajar. It takes years for them to come thru the crisis and some will return as the people you knew and loved and others will come out the other end of the rabbit hole w/some of the habits/quirks that they picked up along the way, then there are others who won't be the same at all. And, yes, there are some that remain stuck in the rabbit hole for the rest of their lives looking for that illusive happiness and pot of gold under the rainbow. Which will your spouse be? No one knows at this time.
Let them go and find a way to live your life as if they may never return. Life is far too short to sit there and wait on them. You only have one life to live...so live it. If he/she comes back, the ultimate choice will be yours to decide as to whether you want to try again.
Job, you seem to have a great wealth of knowledge in this area. You have been very helpful and supportive. Thanks again.
Clay
Hi Job
I was in touch with you the other day on someone else's thread. I thought I'd post here though, as I had some further questions if you wouldnt mind, as you seem to be one of the forums MLC gurus. I have my thread in Newcomers (parallel universe).
Thanks for the links you provided the other day. I've pretty much read everything here on the MLC thread. It seems common ground that we are meant to treat the MLC spouse with kindness, compassion, patience and basically be a friend, which I've been doing since BD, even though I was really badly monstered at times after BD.
I've seen though since coming here that there is a big caution against getting in the 'friendzone' with the X, whihc I dont want, both as a matter of principle and in line with the advice on the forum.
I could be overthinking things, but it seems almost as though the LBS needs to adopt a different approach to the concept of how 'friendly' to be with the X based on if the X is suffering MLC as opposed to the WAW scenario (this is the gist of the Q I asked you the other day). I see all the other DB techniques apply regardless.
I'm just a little confused. Would value any further insight from you. Thanks and regds, D
Some people do not want to be friendly to their spouses while they are floating in space. They would much rather cut them off completely because of what they are doing or have done. However, when we use the words treat them as a friend, it does not mean that you bend over backwards to accommodate their every whim. It means to treat them respectfully and if they ask for advice or need to assistance w/something, you can consider providing whatever they need.
For example, being friendly to a mailman, delivery person, someone you work with or someone you run into on the street, doesn't mean you are going to be gung ho and doing things for them. When you have a roommate, in some cases, you are friendly, but again, that doesn't mean you have to do everything that they ask you to do, etc.
Treat your spouses as you would a delivery person. You are the one in the driver's seat and can determine just have "friendly" that you want to be. Learn to detach lovingly and you will find that it will be easier to deal w/your spouse.
BTW, as I suggested the other day, you should start a thread in this forum so that others can provide advice and assist you. It is very helpful to you, as the poster, to have the responses all in one place, i.e., on your thread, for future reference.
Thank you job that makes a lot of sense.
Could I ask another question please? Do you have an understanding of this ‘fog’ that overcomes the mlc mind? I’ve heard it often here on the forum and I’m very curious because in my case, my XW said as her very first words at bd ‘the fog has lifted’ which I just found rather disquieting for some reason.
Thanks again. Regds D
I have posted my response on your thread in Newcomers. For those reading this thread, my response on the "fog" is as follows:
The "fog" isn't a medical condition all on it's own, but a part of the depression that people experience when the are in MLC. The symptoms are memory problems, irritability, inability to concentrate, and poor motivation. In MLC, depression is the main ingredient. You might want to take some time and read up on depression. You will see many symptoms of the "fog" there.
Start a thread here in MLC and I will be happy to try to answer all of your questions.
Hello wise MLC posters. I’ve been posting in Newcomers but wondering if my situation belongs in here.
My H is 29, I am 31. Together 9 years, married 3. We had our first child 20 months ago and he ran away 5 months ago. At BD I copped a load of abuse. He said he settled for me, I wasn’t good enough for him, I wasn’t the wife he deserved, he wanted to sleep with other people, he wasn’t going to do what society expects of him, he wanted a better life, the only thing he cared about was his own happiness. And that he was leaving for three months to get some space. That turned into a permanent separation after six weeks.
The last time I talked to him, he said he does have thoughts about coming home, but wants to be free to make his own decisions. Looking back at the last five months, his behaviour has been consistent with a mid-life (quarter-life?) crisis - attempting to relive his youth, changing his personality, suddenly focused on health and fitness, acting impulsively, talking in absolutes, avoiding responsibilities, seeking validation from new younger friends, hooking up with a chick who covered him in hickies, buying a new motorbike, tanking his career by telling people he is too good for the company he’s been with for 9 years.
We got together when we were 20/22. We went through the motions of becoming adults together - dating, moving in, engagement, buying a home, marriage, baby - and it's as though H is rejecting it all now at age 29. In the days following BD he said that his happiness peaked at age 20, when life was all about casual work, video games, motor vehicles, and hanging out with the boys. It's obvious that he is not grateful for the life we built, nor does he value it. That's fine. He is free to go and create a life he will appreciate. My approach now is to let him try that on for size and see if he cares about what he has lost.
My feeling now is that this is a deeper problem than an unhappy marriage - it is an unhappy life. He distanced himself from family and friends when the crisis started, has made a laughing stock of himself at work, and most importantly, has become an uninterested and unengaged parent. When I asked him why he left our son as well when he walked out, he said he just needed to escape from the world. Must be nice to have that luxury when your spouse is left at home picking up the pieces.
Does this sound like MLC? Is there any difference between MLC H and WH/WAH? I imagine the LBS approach is the same?
scout,
Please start a thread here in MLC. You will get more responses if you do so and you can then track and refer back to your threads as you travel the path.
Also, you will use the same techniques that you use for the walkaways as you do the MLCers. Yes, it does sound like he may be experiencing a crisis, but it is not a MLC. It could very well be a "quarter life" crisis, whereby people go through growth periods as teenagers, again, at 20, 30, etc. If they do not complete these growth periods, they will eventually have what is called a "mid-life crisis".
Let's talk more about this when you create a thread of your own.
tanking his career by telling people he is too good for the company he’s been with for 9 years.
While everything else could be mid quarter crisis, this sounds manic. Either bipolar mania or substance abuse. Reminds me of a med school classmate who had a manic episode and marched into the Deans office and demanded they give him his diploma because he already knew everything.
Is there a history of any mental illness in his family? Any signs he might be abusing stimulants like meth or cocaine?
While everything else could be mid quarter crisis, this sounds manic. Either bipolar mania or substance abuse. Reminds me of a med school classmate who had a manic episode and marched into the Deans office and demanded they give him his diploma because he already knew everything.
Is there a history of any mental illness in his family? Any signs he might be abusing stimulants like meth or cocaine?
That's a crazy story. I think it's very unlikely there's any substance abuse. No family history of mental illness, but definitely a lot of dysfunction.