Hello everyone. I thought that it was time to start a new thread.
My previous thread is here:
My Happy Thread!!!I feel like my time on this board will be coming to an end soon simply because there really isn't much happening anymore as far as my sitch or with me is concerned. I'll hang around for a little while, but again, my sitch has gotten to the point where nothing really changes anymore.
I'm coming up on four years since bomb drop. Four frickin years! On 10/10/10, I got the pleasure of hearing the famous ILYBINILWY speech. Everyone on this board preaches about how long an MLC lasts...a very long time. But I also think that the time for the LBS to heal takes just as long if not longer...and by heal, I mean completely heal....if that is even possible. Sometimes I wonder.
Anyways, I got to thinking the other night about how much
I have changed since this all began.
Everyone knows how their MLC spouse has changed. I've witnessed mine completely change.....taste in music, men (obviously), food, beliefs/values....watched her become the mother that she never wanted to become. They've all changed into people that we do not know. That's why we are all here.
But.....I wanted to start a thread about how their crisis has changed
US. I've noticed many changes in me since XW's crisis and was wondering if others have experienced the same. I thought that this might be a good conversation to get started. I'm not sure if it can all be blamed on her crisis or if some of it has to do with some of the other stuff I've been through: death of mom, brother, career....
As for my changes, some are good, some are probably bad and some are just ridiculous and make no sense at all. But....they are changes and they are me.
As I said, some make no sense.
Just a few observations:
* I'm better with money than I've ever been. I can make a budget and pretty much stick to it. I waste less than I used to. If it is something I don't actually NEED, I will usually pass.
* I find it hard to trust anybody. Maybe someday I'll be able to trust again, but as of now, I have a hard time with it.
* I'm a better father. Not that I was bad before, I'm just better. We talk more.
* I'm not sure if I want another relationship, but I know if I'm ever in another one, I'll be much better at it. This crisis has taught me a lot. I know what I could have/should have done better in my marriage.
* Women...Ug. Women. I see women on tv all the time that I find attractive....Sofia Vergara, Mila Kunis, Morena Baccarin, Lea Michele...(yes, I love brunettes).....but those women are celebrities and really aren't real to me. As for women in my everyday life, I have a hard time finding any of them attractive. I'm not saying that they aren't attractive, I'm sure they are, but they aren't attractive to me. I wonder sometimes if I'm damaged goods.
* I'm more appreciative of things: my job, my relationships with my sons, my apartment....things I would have taken for granted in the past.
* This is a weird one that makes no sense and may make some of you shake your heads. I'm more compassionate towards animals. Sure, that is a good thing but, it is a little extreme. The other night I was watching a cooking show and had to turn it off because the lady was cooking a live lobster....she was messing with it and I felt bad for it. I can no longer watch the "cruelty" commercials anymore. They have always bothered me.....now they REALLY bother me. I used to love to fish. I won't do it anymore. I won't even kill an insect. Seriously. A few nights ago at work, there was a Tarantula in the hallway. Everyone freaked out. I picked it up and walked it to a desert area nearby.
* I'll no longer watch sad movies and don't find the funny ones as funny as I probably should.
* Music....it's always been a big part of my life and still is but, the stuff I tend to listen to nowadays is a little darker/harder/heavier. I don't have time or the energy for the sappy stuff.
* I used to love pets, but would never get too attached to them. I currently have two rats and am extremely attached to them. Too attached I'm sure. Funny thing is, I used to hate rodents. I get upset when I see rat traps. I mean it really bothers me.
* Lately, I've been feeling really bad for XW. Even with all the pain that she has caused, if she truly is having a crisis and truly is experiencing all of the things that I've read about on this site, I truly feel bad for her.....I guess, I'm starting to have a little compassion for her. A LITTLE bit.
* I look toward the future a little more than I used to. I know what I want and know where I want to be.
* I don't let people walk on me anymore. It used to be, XW would complain how I never stood up for myself. She was right about that too. Now, people don't get away with it and if I have something to say, I say it. If they don't like it, too bad.
Anyways, these are just a few things about myself that I have noticed.
Anybody else experience something like this? Am I the only weird one here?
Tad
Tad,
I haven't posted to you before, but I have read your threads here.
Your story tugs at my heart. I'm so happy for you to have become the man you are today. Your changes are what they are. Personally, I may not categorize them as either good or bad. They are simply what you needed to do then, or need to do now, based on the lessons learned.
I think your growth, all around, is admirable. You didn't just check-out. You struggled, and you came through.
Although things are in a holding pattern for you now, you have the inner peace of looking back at all you have gained. That's wonderful.
Thank you for sharing. I can learn a lot from you.
"I feel like my time on this board will be coming to an end soon simply because there really isn't much happening anymore as far as my sitch or with me is concerned. I'll hang around for a little while, but again, my sitch has gotten to the point where nothing really changes anymore."
Seriously? Have you actually read what you wrote in that long list? Tad, you need help more than ever.
If you want to stop posting, that's your choice, however many of us here have been there since the beginning and would still like to help you heal.
You haven't been to a therapist yet, so I strongly urge you to take that list of problems you have listed and write down what you plan to do about each one. You're definitely not in a healthy place right now.
Thank you Shining and MrBond.
Shining - that was a very nice post. Thank you.
MrBond - what I meant was.....my sitch doesn't change much anymore. So, there really isn't a reason to post much. Therapist? My work schedule is getting changed next week. (Still on "new guy" schedule.) Once I get a permanent one, I'll be able to decide when to go.
I strongly urge you to take that list of problems you have listed and write down what you plan to do about each one.
These aren't a "list of problems." This was a list of changes that I've noticed in myself. Sure, some of them aren't the best changes, but some of them are good. I don't consider them to be problems. I was just listing changes and was wondering if anyone else has noticed changes in themselves.
Tad
Tad you sound sad in your post of changes.
Are you GAL?
Hey there 2BHappy.
I wasn't feeling sad at the time.....
GAL?
Not really. Been working a lot which is more than I've done in a long time. I'm going out next week after payday. Not sure what I am doing, but I've made up my mind to do SOMETHING.....
Tad
Tad. I have read parts of your story but certainly don't know you like some of the others but did sense a little sadness or maybe resignation in your post.
I don't think it is possible to be through a traumatic experience and not be changed and someone who says that they are not is probably in denial.
Many of your changes seem very positive... better relationship with your sons, better relationship with money, standing up for yourself more.
I don't think the animal thing is weird at all. As you gain compassion for people around you and for yourself it is natural to spill over. I find myself tearing up much more when I hear stories about cruelty to people and animals. For me it is a stronger recognition of the interconnectedness of everything.
There are other things on the list you may choose to pursue and change more. Like being able to trust people. For me making the time to see a therapist has been one of the smartest things that I have done.
You said you look forward to the future and see where you want to be. That feels good doesn't it? And only comes from honestly looking back as you have.
Thanks Juliegayle.
Maybe it was a little resignation and maybe even sadness too. I don't know. I do know that this whole thing has changed me a lot. It has changed me in ways that I never expected. A perfect example is the animal thing.
As for my future, I'd like to get my own place and start living my life. The big problem right now is motivating my boys. They have jobs.....but.....they don't seem to want to get on with their lives. Hate to say it but....as much as I like having them with me, sometimes I think that they are holding me back a little. My oldest is 28 for crying out loud. My youngest will be 20 in December. All of them are still at home. You would think that they'd want to get their own places...
Kind of hard to explain...
Thanks for posting.
Tad
"These aren't a "list of problems." This was a list of changes that I've noticed in myself."
I strongly disagree. While a few of them are positive, many are problems that a healthy individual doesn't experience. Like your close attachments to your rats while you were having a hard time relating to your sons before. Or like the post just the other day about your W wanting to "hang out" with your son. You scoffed at that when in fact, he is her son. Those issues and many others haven't been resolved.
Plus the fact that you haven't really decided to go to therapy, leads me to think you are planning to sweep things under the rug. For you, that doesn't work. Bad times in life ALWAYS happen. In your case, I don't think you've fully dealt with the ones from the past fully.
Just being honest. Just because things haven't changed in your MARITAL situation, doesn't mean that you don't have problems that stemmed from it. And your issues run deep.
Hey MrBond....I think you may be right about a few things, but I think there is a slight misunderstanding here.
You said:
Or like the post just the other day about your W wanting to "hang out" with your son. You scoffed at that when in fact, he is her son.
You're right, but I was not scoffing. I think what happened was I should have separated the following two sentences with another one:
XW talked to S28 on the phone today. She wants to "hang out."
It just bothers me I think because even though my life is getting better, it is still not where I want it to be. Her life? Her life = wine and roses.These were two separate thoughts. That's why I put a space between the two sentences. Her wanting to hang out does not bother me, but I can see where it sounds like it does. Perhaps I should have put another sentence between them.
Maybe something like:
XW talked to S28 on the phone today. She wants to "hang out."
It was sunny and hot here in Phoenix today.
It just bothers me I think because even though my life is getting better, it is still not where I want it to be. Her life? Her life = wine and roses.Thanks for your honesty.
I still dig my job....
Tad
"It just bothers me I think because even though my life is getting better, it is still not where I want it to be. Her life? Her life = wine and roses."
No I get that. The point is that you still have a lingering..."oh woe is me, my life [censored]" attitude and believe that life her her is perfect.
While she probably doesn't admit it to you, I bet it's not that easy for her also. But that resentment keeps festering under the surface for you. And if you don't treat it in a healthy way, I'm afraid it's going to just explode. It's happened more times than I care to think of here and other places.
Just extremely concerned. I've seen how your misery has eaten you alive.
Tad, I do hope you won't see this as people 'ganging up ' on you, but I do second Mr Bond. You are not the only poster here whose problems run deeper than the whole MLC situation that we all find ourselves dealing with.
Grief at the loss of a cherished relationship is normal, difficulty in moving on is normal.You appear to remain mildly obsessed with what your xw is doing, which after such a length of time, is less good for you. And the fact that your sons do not want to move out isn't good either - family affection is one thing, unmarried sons living at home for years? Who is benefiting from this?
Add to this the loss of your mother, and a period of unemployment - well you have had a lot on your plate.
I had therapy, and it helped me to deal with the loss of my spouse, and also sort out other things in my life. I occasionally check in with him if there is something I am stuck on. The benefits of therapy are on-going. After finishing a course, the changes remain beneficial
It takes courage to enter therapy - and a good therapist recognises this.
Thanks Bea and MrBond.
MrBond - I won't lie. I do have some resentment. It's better than it was, but it is still there....
You are not the only poster here whose problems run deeper than the whole MLC situation that we all find ourselves dealing with.
?
Do you think that I think my sitch is worse than others? I don't and hope that you don't think I do.
Therapy is happening soon.
Tad
Do you think that I think my sitch is worse than others? I don't and hope that you don't think I do.
Tad, that is not what I said, if you re-read my quote - it is that you, and quite a few other posters here appear to have problems in addition to dealing with MLC. Dealing with those problems will help you to feel better generally, imho
Tad,
In the time I've been on the boards, I see some similarities in how you and I react to this journey.
For me, what I've learned...especially in the past six months...is that some of us come to this point in our lives with past rejections/abandonment issues/hurts that were never dealt with...When we are rejected, again, by our spouses...we may have looked to them--these very troubled, broken people as our salvation after being hurt in the past so deeply. I did.
After my dad's MLC and some other bad stuff in my childhood...I looked to Smokey as proof that I was still lovable, that men COULD be trusted...he became my HOME...HE was the anchor in my life because I never was able to do that for myself. I put that on his shoulders...he was home, my God, my source of everything.
When he left, I was stripped of all I believed in.
Chapter 2
I've had to take a hard look at all the stuff in my life that contributed to my making Smokey the end all and the be all. I've needed to forgive myself for my insecurities and human defects. I came by all of these qualities honestly.
I had some terrible, terrible experiences in my past that made me the person who believed I NEEDED someone like Smokey to fill the gaps. He was like the putty I used to fill up any broken/cracking walls in my foundation. And, sometimes, he WAS my foundation.
This process takes as long as it takes. I think the more pain we have to face from our past experiences, before the marriage, contributes to the length of time it takes us to recover.
It's kinda like, in my mind...say you have heart disease for your whole life...And, it's never really dealt with effectively. Then, mid-life, even though you may THINK you have handled the disease well...you end up having a heart attack at 45. A terrible, horrible, nearly fatal heart-attack...
All that heart disease from your childhood onwards will contribute to the time it takes you to recover. Someone who has a heart attack at 45, but has NO previous heart problems, will recover more quickly...for YOU, however, you may have to work harder to repair the damage and do some more exploratory surgery to figure out what the source of the problem really is...
You can do this. But, I think some guidance would be helpful.
Don't beat yourself up. You have survived some truly awful circumstances and you ARE RECOVERING!!! I think people react normally to abnormal situations in the best way they are able based on their past experiences in life.
For me, reading Susan Anderson's books/workbooks on abandonment, DB-ing with the people who surround me now--like my mom, family--kids, re-reading co-dependency no more, finding a strong, daily presence of God in my life, venting/sorting through feelings here...that's what has given me strength to recover.
Only YOU know what will work for YOU. Be kind to yourself. I'm sure you have good reasons for handling things the way you have. Give yourself an ATTA BOY for the new job and the new wonderful life awaiting you and don't get stuck in the woulda, coulda, shoulda's.
Ug....thanks all.
Yes, I do have other issues I guess.....abandonement issues. I talked to a friend of mine today. He's done some counseling in the past. We spent a lot of time together and basically he had me tell everything from the beginning OF MY LIFE. Lois, I can relate to some of what you posted. I'll try to explain and write it all out...the way I told my friend today. My friend thinks I have abandonment issues. It seems like I've been dealing with it from the beginning....either abandoned, or dumped. It is going to probably look like I had a terrible mother, but she really wasn't. But....it is what it is. Anyways, I'll pour it out right here:
* 1967 (I was 1 week old)
My parents both worked in the same pet hospital. When I was a week old, my mom went back to work and they both worked 12-14 hour days. My grandmother babysat. I spent the majority of my time with her. She is the reason that I'm left-handed because she taught me to write. I took my first steps to her and spoke my first words to her. She taught me to ride a bike without training wheels. She raised me and she was the one that I bonded with. Nothing against my mom....it just happened.
* 1971 (4 years old)
My mom left my dad and ran off with a guy that would later become my stepdad. My mom disappeared for 8 weeks and left me and my older brother at my grandmother's. Nobody knew where my mom was and my poor dad didn't have a clue and thought that she had been kidnapped. She later returned.
* 1972 (5 years old)
My mom files for divorce from my dad and runs off to California and marries "Bob." My bother and I go with her. I can remember crying for my grandmother a lot. My older brother would crawl in bed with me at night so I would stop crying. I always liked "Bob" but always felt inferior because he used to tell me all the time that I couldn't do anything right and was "uncoordinated" because I was left-handed. My mom gives birth to my younger brother. Older brother and I are kind of pushed aside. There was a new baby.
* 1974 (7 years old)
We come back to Phoenix and stay with my grandmother. We are with her for a few months until I'm thrown on a plane and headed to Germany. (Bob was military) Again, and looking back, I'm sure I felt like my grandmother was being taken away from me again. I hated it. We spent three long years there.
* 1977 (10 years old)
We arrive back in Phoenix. We are there for a few months before getting wisked off again for California. I would have been happy just staying with my grandmother and she even asked mom to let me, but mom said no.
* 1978 (11 years old)
My mom gets a phone call from my grandmother and finds out that the dog that I grew up with ("Katie") had died. Katie was a dog that my parents got shortly before I was born and also ended up being dumped on my grandmother. This was my first experience with death and I can remember crying for like 2 or 3 days.
* 1980 (12 years old)
We move back to Phoenix and my mom and stepdad get a place with my grandparents. That was fine with me. Mom and I started to get close, my grandmother was there. Things were good.
* 1981 (13 years old)
"Bob" gets orders for Germany again. This time, I was not invited. Bob, my mom and younger brother went. My older brother and I were left with my grandmother. Although that was fine, I was hurt by this because mom and I were getting close and she would be gone for three years.
* 1982 (14 years old)
Around this time, I'm a teenaged boy and am wanting to get to know my real dad. We weren't really close at all, because I was either at grandmother's, Germany or California. I start spending time with him and I eventually move in with him and my stepmom. This was great for a while. But....I had two brothers: older one was at my grandmother's and the younger one was in Germany. I felt kind of lonely. Everyone was so spread out.
* 1984 (16 years old)
By this time I felt like I was sort orf wearing out my welcome at my dad's and stepmom's. Mom was back from Germany, but in California. She says I can come stay with her so, I move back to California. I meet XW and we fall madly in love.
* 1985 (17 years old)
XW and I get married right out of high school and move back to Phoenix. By February 1986, we had our first kid. I was 18.
* 1986 - 2000 (Smooth sailing)
I start my radio career, I make it big, we have three more kids, things are good.
* 2001 (33 years old)
My beloved grandmother is diagnosed with breast cancer and passes fairly quickly after it spreads to her brain. I won't lie, this just about killed me. I must have grieved for 2-3 years. It taught me a lot about death and I became really close to God. Kind of a weird/dark/enlightening time all at the same time.
* 2005 (38 years old)
I had a really good radio buddy - "H.G." He was my mentor/idol/father figure all in one. I was a disc jockey, but he was the one that taught me how to be a "country" disc jockey. He gave me my very first belt buckle. We talked every single day. I would listen to his old radio stories and he would give me advice. He did traffic for the afternoon show and I was the evening dj. So, I would get to the station around 5, he would leave at 6:30 and I would go on the air at 7. One night in May, I'm sitting in my office getting ready to go on the air and I see H.G. walking in the parking lot towards his car. I remember thinking to myself: "I didn't get to talk to H.G. today." I didn't talk to him because I had a cold. When disc jockey's catch colds, they avoid each other like the plague because you don't want the entire airstaff getting sick. It was kind of an unwritten rule. The next morning at about 4:30, I get a call from my boss and he tells me that H.G. got up in the middle of the night to get a drink of water and had a severe heart attack and passed away. I've always felt bad because I never got to tell him goodbye and didn't say a word to him during his last day alive.
* 2008 (41 years old)
My younger brother kills himself. He lived just ten minutes from me. Always have wished he would have called me. He was in his apartment arguing with his girlfriend. After she left, he wrote a goodbye message on the bathroom door to his kids, took off his clothes, grabbed a belt, turned on the shower and hung himself.
* 2010 (43 years old)
Good old 2010.....I think we all know what happened this year. I won't go into it....it's on the boards. MLC for XW, an OM, divorced in 2011. I start to get close to mom again because of everything going on with XW. Mom helped the boys and I a lot and helped with bills and kept food on the table.
* 2014 (46 years old)
After being diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer the previous May, mom passes in January.
Telling it like this to my friend and actually seeing it written out, I think that XW was the only thing stable in my life. Like you Lois, XW was the foundation that I never had previously. It also seems like I've been dumped my entire life except for the years I was with XW. Hope that makes some sort of sense....
Tad
Hey Tad. Glad to hear things are improving.
While I see improvement, I agree with the others that you should seek out counseling. I think it would be helpful.
I also see the sadness/resignation, but I see that as part of the process for you. I also see something else - perhaps you put your ex in a place in your life that she should not have been. i.e. you wanted her to fulfill something she could not. You have needs as do all of us, but that can cause a lot of issues over the years, right?
I do see you progressing, but as has been alluded to, that may be hindered by the other issues to deal with. Talking to a therapist may help with that transition.
It's easier to see from this perspective than when you're living it, no?
Glad the job is working out and you're enjoying it. I'm also glad you're thinking of the future and other areas of your life.
AJ
Hey Tad. Sorry that you feel as you do.
I can certainly understand why you felt abandoned. The thing about that is that while it feels like it was personal, it really was about the other person. Doesnt change how you feel to know that, I know.
I agree with AJ, you may have put your wife in a place that was awfully big for someone so young. Not your fault, it wasnt intentional.
I do hope you find a therapist that can help you through this. It may take a few tries, but it is so worth it.
While it is absolutely imperative to figure out how you got to where you are, it is also necessary to let go of what you can.
Everyone does the best they can at the time. Had they known better, the hope is that they would have done better.
The important thing for you now is that you realize that you have a second chance here, Tad.
You have a job you like, you will be getting on your feet a bit financially. Hopefully some of your sons will start to find their way.
You can decide what you want your life to look like. I am excited for you, my friend.
Please dont let what happened with your marriage define your life. You get to do that.
Hi Tad, I feel for you Buddy, Yes, get a good counsellor to help you try to come to terms with your life. I believe I’m pretty good at getting an angle on human psychology. I’ve always felt there was something lurking in your background. I hope that you also learn to use good discernment. For many years now, I believe I’ve had good empathy and understanding.
Often sometimes with rejection and abandonment, insecurity comes along. The previous line is what I suffered with for over 40 years. I also suffered with untreated Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
I can’t remember the day that the goalposts moved in my house, but I know I was just aged 4. Good news for me was that my Mother remembers everything that was said and done on this very bad day. Just to say that my Dad started to suffer with Manic depression (it’s called Bi-Polar now).
I’ve had many years of counselling, 8 years with the same woman, and I must have worn her out! She had to give up counselling for personal reasons.
It was a slow process for me, and also perhaps because it was Person Centred Counselling.
Since I was young, I knew that I had deep hurts, but I didn’t know just how bad these were until just before my wife left us. Then it was a double whammy, I nearly died with the mental anguish.
With good counselling you should be able to get good discernment, to know what makes a good and healthy relationship. Especially so for finding a life partner and other people you can trust.
So my family was at times dysfunctional. Back in the day and if I was a well balanced person, I would not have got involved with my wife! Not for long anyway. There were quite a few red flags before we got married, but I thought at the time ‘Well we all grow up’ What a big mistake!
So now Tad, can you see any red flags that were in your relationship with your ex wife?
Love
Delboy
Tad sounds like you may be dealing with a bout of depression. Is there a counselor that has weekend hrs in your area?
* 1981 (13 years old)
"Bob" gets orders for Germany again. This time, I was not invited. Bob, my mom and younger brother went. My older brother and I were left with my grandmother. Although that was fine, I was hurt by this because mom and I were getting close and she would be gone for three years.
Wow. Tad, doesn't it sorta make sense that your pet rats would be more worthy of your trust in this child's eyes? It makes a lot sense, to me, that you would have a hard time trusting people...you've had a lot of reasons to turn inward.
I feel so badly for that 13-year-old boy. He must have felt so rejected and abandoned.
What are you going to do this week to help yourself?
Have you purchased the Abandonment Book yet? Any other books on helping you to continue your rise from the ashes?? Looked into any other counselors...maybe look for a counselor that specializes in grief???
What's the plan?
So...maybe your truth dart could be...I'm Tad, I've been hurt by a lot of people. I have a lot of sadness and unfinished grief. I've suffered from depression because of all the loss in my life. I'm going to ________________________________ to deal with all this grief/loss/rejection in my life. I will get help from _________________________________________.
Wow. So....my previous post on this thread has vanished. Maybe during the purge?
Anyways, I continue to see my brother on the street. I emailed his daughter, the email was read but....she didn't even respond. Who knows maybe she has been turned against me too or she just doesn't care about her dad.
I made an appointment for a counselor. I go Tuesday.
I actually bought a new car this week. Not brand new but a 2013. I really needed it because I travel 50 miles one way for my job and the thing I was driving just wasn't going to last much longer. I was suprised that I actually got it with my credit the way it is. I have a high interest rate, but hopefully this will help build some credit.
I actually did something else this week that I was never "allowed" to do. I joined a fantasy football league with S28. I've always wanted to try it, so this should be fun.
Take care.
Tad
"Anyways, I continue to see my brother on the street."
Have you talked to him?
"I emailed his daughter, the email was read but....she didn't even respond. Who knows maybe she has been turned against me too or she just doesn't care about her dad."
See, this type of attitude needs to change. Have you ever even kept in contact with her? If not, then she might find it weird that you're doing it now. If you care for her then you keep the contact going. The situation with your W has made you an extreme pessimist.
Tad,
I don't think your brother's child has turned against you. She might need to think about the situation w/her father for a while. Who knows, but she may have written him off a long time ago, but don't take it personally because she's not responded. You've done all you can do and it's up to him to seek help.
I'm glad to see that you've made an appointment w/a counselor. I think you need to speak to someone who can help guide you and give you some feedback.
You'll enjoy the fantasy football, especially w/your son being involved in it too. It's good that you are stating to open up to the world around you.
I'm glad to see you got another car. You needed one and this will help to rebuild your credit once again. It's one step at a time, one day at a time. You know what? You've been taking some big steps lately and I like to see the positives that you've been posting. Keep taking those steps!
Thanks Job and MrBond.
I have not, but may the next time I see him.
Have you ever even kept in contact with her? If not, then she might find it weird that you're doing it now. If you care for her then you keep the contact going. The situation with your W has made you an extreme pessimist.
I have talked to her from time to time. Talked to her a lot when my mom was dying. She actually lived with XW and me for 3 years while her parents were strung out on drugs and going through their divorce. The reason I say that XW maybe turned her against me is because XW still contacts her. No telling the lies she has been told.
It's good that you are starting to open up to the world around you.
They are baby steps, but I'm doing them. I went out (by myself) for a few hours the other night. Just checked out a local sports bar. Wish I would have had somebody to go with, but it was still nice just to get out.
You know what? You've been taking some big steps lately and I like to see the positives that you've been posting. Keep taking those steps!
I'm trying Job, but some days it is just so hard...
S28 told me today that XW is getting a Koi pond put in. I chuckled. Her best friend has one so.....well let's just say that I think MLC is also a frickin identity crisis as well. Everything she has done/purchased is modeled after somebody else. It's almost a competition I think.
Back to work tonight. Get to drive the new car on the freeway for the first time.
Tad
Today would have been my 29th wedding anniversary.
August 30th still has meaning for me. Maybe someday it won't and just become any other day.....someday.
Tad
It's good that you are stating to open up to the world around you
Agreed. Very good.
I went out (by myself) for a few hours
Also very nice to hear. Seems you are reintegrating a bit and exploring. Never stop exploring, Tad. You'll like most of what you find, but you won't find it if you only stay in a box
The IC is a great step as well. Very happy to hear that.
I know you are still paying too much attention to ex. I also know you're still trying to make sense of things that may not make sense. Still, you'll keep doing it until you can make peace with it.
Your observation is fairly spot on, Tad. Competition or consumerization or whatever you want to call it. But yes, trying to find the identity is a large part of MLC. From what I've seen it is about somebody who has been disconnected from their identity and is trying to figure that out. Must be tough, right?
As for your brother and his daughter. I agree with Mr B - if you want to talk, keep trying to keep in touch. Don't read into it - she may not be ready to deal with it. I'm sure that was a painful time in her life and I doubt it is easy to deal with. If you ex was trying to turn her against you...well, that's just sick but it's not the girl's doing. While she makes her own decisions, that kind of pressure would be difficult to cope with. More likely it is not easy to deal with her father and the junk that goes with it. She needs a family member to reach out to her - keep trying without expectation. You may be surprised at some point how helpful that can be for her.
For now? Focus on you and the IC. Find a good one, but don't be surprised at ups and downs. There's a lot to deal with and it'll be difficult at times. That's just pain leaving the body, Tad
Glad to hear about the fantasy football. It can be a lot of fun and a great way to hang with the kids. And glad to hear about the job and the car! You have a lot of positive momentum building and a lot of runway left...
AJ
"The reason I say that XW maybe turned her against me is because XW still contacts her. No telling the lies she has been told."
It's not your XW's fault and it's not your niece's fault. It's your fault for not staying in contact. You're still blameshifting big time.
Rather than playing the victim, how about making a positive change and reaching out to her a little more rather than treating her like an enemy ally.
"Today would have been my 29th wedding anniversary."
LET...IT...GO
Thanks Mrbond and AJ.
I have finally spoken to my niece about my brother. From the sounds of it, she had no idea what was going on with him and is pretty disgusted by him. She told me that she wants nothing to do with him. I see him occassionally on the way to and from work. I may decide to change my route just because it breaks my heart to see him on the street and there is nothing I can really do for him. He has now really lost everything TWICE thanks to gambling and drugs.
I saw a counselor yesterday. I basically spent the time telling her everything that I have posted here. (Edited of course) She seems to think that I have some resentment and abandonment issues. I guess I really just feel used. Not sure if I like the whole counselor thing but we'll see how it goes.
It's not your XW's fault and it's not your niece's fault. It's your fault for not staying in contact. You're still blameshifting big time.
I'm not blaming anyone.
Rather than playing the victim, how about making a positive change and reaching out to her a little more rather than treating her like an enemy ally.
I have. See first paragraph.
We are planning on getting together for a barbecue in the next few weeks. She really doesn't have anyone either except for her little kids. Both of her parents are on drugs and she is disconnected with her two brothers...(jail and drugs)
You have a lot of positive momentum building and a lot of runway left...
Haha. Nicely put.
My S21 finally has a band put together again since the big MLC. They are actually starting to record some stuff. They asked me to help them with it since I'm an audio/video guy. We're probably going to start on it tomorrow.
Anyways, that's it for now.....just wanted to post a quick update.
Tad
"She seems to think that I have some resentment and abandonment issues. I guess I really just feel used. Not sure if I like the whole counselor thing but we'll see how it goes."
I don't see how you didnt' get that we ALL said that you have resentment and abandonment issues. It's not that you feel used, you just think that life is filled with one disappointment after another.
Stick with the C. If she makes you feel uncomfortable, it's working.
"I'm not blaming anyone."
Yes you are. Right here... "The reason I say that XW maybe turned her against me is because XW still contacts her. No telling the lies she has been told."
I'm so glad you went to the counselor TAD. :-)
Atta Boy!
I'm glad you made contact with your niece. At least you now know where she stands w/her father. Yes, he's lost everything not once, but twice and he's hitting the bottom of the barrel again and only he can decide what to do w/his life. I think you would be wise to take another route to work because this situation of seeing him periodically is bothering you a lot.
I'm very happy to see you had a counseling session. I agree w/Mr. Bond. If she's making you feel uncomfortable, then what she's doing is working.
Keep moving forward.
Thanks everyone.
Just updating:
Saw the counselor again. Not sure if I like going though. We talked about the relationship with my rats this time. She seems to think that I have bonded with them the way that I have because in my mind, they are the only things left in my life that can't hurt me, lie to me, cheat on me, betray me.....and....she's right. I don't really trust anyone at all anymore.
I haven't seen my brother on the streets in over a week. Not sure if that's good or bad.
A couple of weeks ago, I tried to call my dad for his birthday and got the voicemail. He will usually call back if he misses a call. He hasn't this time. I'm going to try to call him tomorrow.
Still working at my awesome new job and still like it a lot.
That's really all that's been going on with me. Kind of boring.
I want to go to a few meet ups I think. Just haven't had the guts to go.
Take care.
Tad
Hi Tad, Your Quote: 'Saw the counselor again. Not sure if I like going though.'
How come you don't know if you like going or not?
Love
Delboy
Hi Delboy.
To answer your question, I guess it's because I don't feel like re-hashing the last four years again. I just don't feel like going over all of it again. Don't feel very comfortable talking about all of this to a complete stranger. Sure, I do it here, but I can hide behind my computer monitor.
The first counselor I went to kind of rubbed me the wrong way four years ago. He kept telling me to kick XW to the curb while I was in the process of trying to save my marriage.
I'll continue to go though.
Thanks for checking in.
Tad
Hi Tad,you should find that most counselors are up to the mark. For the first few months I tested mine to the limits! She didn't shrink. She was very attentive and there for me while she was in the counseling mode. Also you have to go over the stuff until you can come to terms with it!
Yesterday I saw the ex across the road (while I went past in my car) she had the other man in tow & his dog.
All day yesterday the weather was overcast but she still had sun glasses on. Since she left, when she's outside she nearly always has sun glasses on, I wonder why? I think I know why, do you?
Love
Delboy
" She seems to think that I have bonded with them the way that I have because in my mind, they are the only things left in my life that can't hurt me, lie to me, cheat on me, betray me.....and....she's right. I don't really trust anyone at all anymore."
You do know that it's the same thing that we told you here. Your C sounds like a good one. You're still fighting it. Let it go.
Mr. Bond I have been on these boards as long as u have I believe, and I have followed Tad the whole way. I have sat back and read ur comments and have not posted but I have to say u need to back off a little.......encouragement goes a long way. You come across as very harsh to me nd harsh is not always the way to go......I guess u mean well but u sure sound like u could use a hug, u sound very bitter. So heres a hug for ya. For real.
Tad I am so proud of the progress ur making. U still have a ways to go but ur getting there. Hang onto those boys, they sure love their dad.
Also about them leaving the nest.....maybe they think they need to be with u still. They may need u to reassure them ur ok and they can go. Just thinking.
Hugs to ya tad.....hang in there with counseling.
Tad, I know it's uncomfortable and a bit awkward...but, I'm so glad you are keeping it up. You agree with her thoughts, even though it's uncomfortable...that's great.
I know you don't want to rehash the last four years. I get that. But, what about taking some pride in what you have survived. You are a survivor. Not everyone makes it through what you have. Maybe you didn't do it perfectly, but you did it. Still doing it. Give yourself a little credit for dealing with some harsh events and, then, making the effort to get a new job, start a new life, go to counseling, etc... :-)
Thanks everyone...I appreciate it.
Also you have to go over the stuff until you can come to terms with it!
You mean accept it? I think I have accepted it....just don't like it. Same with my childhood...grandmother's death, brother's and mother's death....all the crap I've been through the last few years. I'm just tired of it all. I've spent 4-5 years grieving about one thing or another and can't do it anymore. I want to be happy. I want the elephant off my chest.
Since she left, when she's outside she nearly always has sun glasses on, I wonder why? I think I know why, do you?
I think I know why. I think she is hiding behind them. Honestly? I've done that most of my life. Not sure why, but I guess I've just always felt secure with them. Seriously, you won't see me in very many pictures without shades.
You do know that it's the same thing that we told you here.
Yep. Same thing MrBond.
I have sat back and read ur comments and have not posted but I have to say u need to back off a little.......encouragement goes a long way.
It's cool Renee. He means well I'm sure. Sometimes I need a kick....or a punch....or a 2x4. Really. It's all good. Thanks for looking out for me though.
Nice to hear from you. I still check you out on FB from time to time.
Also about them leaving the nest.....maybe they think they need to be with u still. They may need u to reassure them ur ok and they can go.
I've thought about this too. I've even told them that they do not NEED to stay. Honestly, I'm not sure they are quite ready anyways. They need better jobs. All the extra schooling/college plans got messed up when all this started and we are just all starting to refocus again....finally.
But, what about taking some pride in what you have survived. You are a survivor. Not everyone makes it through what you have. Maybe you didn't do it perfectly, but you did it. Still doing it. Give yourself a little credit for dealing with some harsh events and, then, making the effort to get a new job, start a new life, go to counseling, etc... :-)
Awww. Thanks for the nice post. L/H. It is Heather right? Yeah, I've done it so far. It hasn't killed me yet.
Take care.
Tad
Hi Tad, your quote:'I think I know why. I think she is hiding behind them. Honestly? I've done that most of my life. Not sure why, but I guess I've just always felt secure with them. Seriously, you won't see me in very many pictures without shades.
This is something for you to work through with your counselor.
Love
Delboy
"I have to say u need to back off a little.......encouragement goes a long way. You come across as very harsh to me nd harsh is not always the way to go."
Actually I don't have to back off. Tad gets plenty of hand holding from other posters and if you have read what I've posted to him from the beginning, you'll see that I have encouraged him.
The point you seem to be missing is that throughout Tad's journey, there are so many things that could have been avoided or worked on that would have gotten him stronger much faster. But instead, I saw it evolve into pity, depression, resentment, etc.
Tad, you know more than anyone else that I'm proud of the way you've progressed. In fact, there were times that in your posts you sounded down right suicidal to be honest. You have it IN YOU to become more positive. You still have this underlying feeling that life isn't fair or that you have no control over what happens. You do. You just have to start believing that. LIfe is what you make of it.
For the C, you have an amazing person who seems to have gotten to the root of your problems in a short amount of time. Take the opportunity to ask questions. Once you deal and confront the issues from your past with courage and not fear or loathing, you will come out stronger. It's like having an open wound that you just cover with a band aid.
I get that life's been tough for you. With every challenge, you can come out stronger than before with no resentment or anger or blaming others.
Nice....much better mr bond..:)
Hi Tad
I was just crusin around and read your latest thread. I was interested in your list of changes in you - i find i feel same about some. I don't think i'm a particular "pity sponge" - I'm not a total harda$$ either - i think you're gettin picked on in here a bit - now or then. if you're doin your best - it's good enough. take the good, leave the bad.
i've been here 3 or 4 years. MLC stinks - all of it - across the board. i'd opine that your "changes" in self are natural really. i'm no one in particular , of course, but some times on this forum (which i like and am grateful for the support of ) some folks can be what i'd view as "demanding" and insistent. That's just my personal opinion. don't let that get to you. If it's true, and you can find the value in what they say - apply to self. If not, let it go. lots of folks have "something to prove" in life and here is no different.
we're all just people - not perfect. anyone. your life summary of events is really something. soooo much upheaval- i think it's pretty good that you're still standing thru it all. Everyone says let go of past - it's a good idea - I'm worki on it - - - it's just part of who we are tho, so not quite as easily wheedled out of our makeup (i think).
you stumble, you fall, you get back up, you go forward...
You probably know you, maybe your "speed" of recovery isn't what everyone else would like. The r we all had, and what created it, and us - is soooo complex - it's never just cut and dry and one bit of advice fits all. I'm pretty sure alot of people think of me as "oh geeeez , is she STILL here whining away?)" who the heck knows. (who the heck cares) maybe i'll come back forever - idk.
sometimes i feel all "gettin there". sometimes i feel like it's really pointless, sometimes i feel like the support & kindness of some people here that hold my hand and pat me on the head and say "good boy" has "saved" me. WE ALLLL NEED THAT SOMETIMES - im' not ashamed of it. If ya need help - ya gotta ask for it sometimes. I know my weaknesses - i don't like them any better than anyone else. can i snap my fingers and have them disappear? apparently not. who the heck can? I try and acknowledge each tiny little "victory" - like not getting sucked into a fight- not actually "bleeding" anymore from what i think is worst thing to ever happen in my life.... laughing alot, more like olden days - i'm improved, etc.
I'm less trusting too (you get burned- you don't touch the fire) , I HAVE HATED FOR YEARS AND YEARS that people say lobsters don't feel anything. before this ever happened i always thought man was so arrogant to presume to speak for anotehr living creature. I became an adult and realized i couldn't bait a hook with a living minnie any more - Dogs and cats are amazingly perceptive - can tell when "something is up" in a household before most people. humans are soooo incredibly self-deluded and thinking they are "gods" among the animals. yeah-rite.
I could weep when i think of breakups of people i know and i tried to comfort, but had no real clue of the depth and tragedy. I was only human= now i KNOW the pain. You too -. I can't watch sappy movies either- makes me cry and feel sorry for self. I have discovered that most people i thought loved me - kind of turn on you when they are required to be the comforter- rather than just sit there and suck compassion and support from you. people hate it like mad when the "strong guy" is havin a hard t ime.
I'm tryin to be tougher and speak up for myself too, but - My inner voice is always saying to rise above it- to be comassionate - to not "let them have it" because you can never ever erase the words once they're said. it seems to be who i am. I am not the guy to slam someone over the head. Even total jerks - who richly deserve it - i feel compelled to be kind. I think i should "hard up" - it's so not me - just another think i'm letting go right now.
who says it's my DUTY to "give someone" what they deserve? maybe i'll leave that one for God. Judgement and punishment. idk-
there were those here who demanded I "walk out" right away to make a point. It may have been a good strategy- i didn't. idk if i was wrong or right - probably never will. I was me doin the best i could at that time. i was lucky to still remember to breath in and out . it's been a long long long way to come. I am still in this "r" of whatever sort. I am still unsure where it will end - our daily interaction is waaay better (when we are actually together in one house) (he is waaaay less of a giant jacka$$) but ow is still around & i'm still unsure (or unable to cut him out of my life for final and good) or what i want to do about it all. I can't even figure out if i want to live in nj or fl or b oth or what? My mom just passed away end of March- it's been such a long awful past five years my brain is just "done" for moment.
BUT YESTERDAY - i had a very unusual kind of feeling that time was soooo huge - before - forever - just this giant blobbie thing we all were floating along with and in - and it rolls by and maybe we are trying to always capture a bit of it- and make it concrete - stable - but it's impossible. it just is ....& always was and we're here at the moment .. maybe it alllll doesn't even matter at all... all the things we think matter soo much... it was a plealsant feeling btw - not wierd or dark. just okay with being another speck in the universe like everyone else- . my universal soul theory. we're all just tapped into this giant consciousness and may in fact be each other, for all we kn ow...(or something like)
I have waaaay more okay days and even good days, i feel like doing alot of things i used to enjoy doing "before" , so my progress is there (even if microscopic to some). I don't know what it all means? i don't know if i "love" him anymore or could as i used to. I am allowing myself to not know any answers anymore.
so, am i wrong - are you stuck in one spot - you sound like you're plodding along, tryin...
when bomb dropped - i was toooo "weakened" to do much but go hide and lick my wounds. i don't feel ashamed of that- 36 years (my entire adult life) with someone is alot to let go of easily. I do not give or give up "love" very easily. there are strings of a type i cannot define- i'm not trying any more. I have no idea any more what i am to this guy. he doesn't walk away either.
I think it was mwd that said in one of her books research shows the average woman "endures" 8 years of a r that is crappola before she actually walks. it's a long time- from surprised and blasted out of the water to actually taking bull by horns and slaughtering him. Upon close questioning - i have three women in my life who actually fit that bill - and it was that long. they did walk out- their life has not been easy on their own. IN REAL life , there is no time frame ya gotta follow i think. we each find our own way. If i'm more insecure or needy or whatever anyone wants to "lable" it as- so what? are they here with me day to day for company or suport. no- no one is . we are allllll in this "alone" more or less.
You sound pretty okay to me. So- you're attached to rats. they are living creatures and you enjoy nurturing them. maybe for the time being it's good to have that connection to a living being. it's waaay better than no one and nothing. I keep thinking perhaps i should get a dog- get some of that unqualified love too - but then resist. why- tons of valid reasons - but then, is that twisted too? to deny self this loving pet? idk- you can look at it all many diffferent ways always. .
If ya try and be honest with yourself i guess - that's all we can do. i've sure got my neurosis . I've got a hell of alot going for me tho (i think) that is good too. i'm still "tryin"
i have a great little book i found geared toward recovering aa women. "each Day a New Beginning" , Hazeldon Foundation. it's good, moderating, food for thought each morning. go find it on amazon for a buck or two used - . I'm thinking if you desire to move past this- and are willing to be here listening to everyone's input - and considering it- you're on some good road. well, on your own "journey".
will it happen "fast" - i don't think so. one little dopey quote I heard somewhere was "fake it til you make it" - much like living "as if". it's what we just have to do- keep chin up- plug forward - accept and acknowledge the little or big good stuff in our life today (we're alive, healthy and having a life in a relatively safe country) (for a few) and work on brain- washing ourselves. I do believe happiness or contentment is a frame of mind- how we deal with the junk in life - and we are the only thing we can control. We've both made the decision not to let this kill us- so hey, look what a big accomplishment that is. we're still standign after a bunch of years - still workin on it - still existing and having the desire to prevail. fortitude dude.
just gotta plug thru. If you have a job and like it- and you're doing an activity with your son and look forward to it- and working on being in your neices life - that's something huge i'd say. Your past is an am azingly jumbled ting- and your current family sitch is sad - brother, etc. My closest sister (yr younger) drank herself to death. it was really bad watching her- do i believe i could have "saved" her? I think deep inside we all always wonder. could we - objectively- probably not. do we always wonder- well, sure probably.
point is- if it's helping you- if you are taking steps very slowly - i think it's your journey and you WILL take it as you must.
this got a bit long- meant it as supportive - hope it is.
we're on the road man - hang in there. accept what "fits" - don't let the nay-sayers get ya down.
xxo
Wow nero, thank you for such a wonderful post. So much of what you've written has resonated with me.
Learning to love and accept ourselves in the present is so important. A first step really, and one that many of our spouses in crisis need to learn. And let's not forget what we say for them... they have to figure it out on their own, we can't fix them.
you're so right forever. i forget sometimes to keep telling me that i didn't break him, and i can't fix him.
if only it were that easy huh? that we could in fact have some action we could take and really make a difference.
i'm just tired - frustrated - wondering why i don't throw in the towel - i guess I can always quit tomorrow - rite?????
xxo
i guess I can always quit tomorrow - rite?????
xxo
Knowing that I could play the bailout card at any time has taken me far.
Since the purge, I've had a lot of problems with messages from this thread just mysteriously vanishing. My latest post on here is gone in addition to 2 responses.
Anyone else having this problem?
Tad,
We had another update that took approximately 48 hours over the weekend. The warning was posted above advising us to use the Board as "read only" because there was no guarantee that when we posted during the latest updates would remain on the forum. So, yes, we all lost postings during that period of time, as well as the "time" of postings has changed.
Thanks Job. I guess I didn't see the warning.
Anyways, Nero - thanks for the wonderful post. So much of what you said really hit home. I posted a really nice post back to you, but it got lost in the purge. Anyways, I just wanted you to know that I appreciate what you said. Thank you.
I've sort of had a little set back I think. Everytime I think I'm doing better, I seem to have a set back. I've really been trying to get back into music again since it was such a big part of my life pre-BD, but I just can't....so many damn memories. The sad thing is, I really miss it. I've really been trying though.
My insomnia has been extremely bad lately. Last week, I went from Thursday morning to Monday afternoon with only about 7 hours of broken sleep. Very broken - 1 hour here, 1 hour there. I don't know what it is. When I'm at work, I do ok because I'm busy, but can barely stay awake for the drive home. Had to slap myself a few times to stay awake. When I get home, I find it hard to even stand because I'm so tired. Then when I go to bed....wide awake. I bought some Zzzquil the other night and it helped, but I don't want to have to rely on it.
When I do sleep, my mind races. I've been dreaming a lot again lately. I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I've never been one to really remember my dreams unless I'm dreaming about airplane crashes. Well, I've been dreaming a lot about XW lately. When I wake up, I can't remember the dream, but I can just tell that I was dreaming about her. Weird. I either wake up pissed off or very sad and I know that it has to do with her. Anyone else ever have that? Where you know what you were dreaming about, but can't remember specifics?
S21 has finally put his band back together. (It was on hold during the MLC mess.) Anyways, they are performing at a local bar on October 15th. It is their first show since getting back together and renaming the band. XW will be there and so will I. I know that she will want to be nice, friendly, cordial, civil.....but I don't want to be nice or even talk to her. I want to avoid her like the plague. Not sure what to do. I would like to not even go but I will for S21....
Tad
Hi Tad, You really do need to get help with your lack of sleep, you better go and see a DR.
Lack of sleep just increases negative thoughts etc.
Love
Delboy
Tad,
The biggest issue is that you never GAL'd in a healthy manner. GAL is supposed to get you stronger - mentally, physically, emotionally, etc. The fact that you still have that anger and resentment eating away at you like a cancer shows that you aren't anywhere near that.
In the end it's not your W that's going to suffer by you not being there. It will be you and your son.
Are you still going to the C? This is when you have to get some kind of coping advice from her. Make an appointment ASAP. You need the help.
Thank you Delboy and MrBond.
The sleep has been a little better the past few nights. I'm still not getting what I need, but I'll take 3 or 4 hours over just 1 any day.:)
I've been trying to GAL even if it's just going out by myself once a week. I've made a point to go out atleast once every week for the past three weeks. It really isn't fun going by myself, but atleast it is something. A woman I work with wants to take me to Tucson to check out the observatory there. We have a lot in common including our love for astronomy. I may go.
Even though I do not want to see XW, I will be going to S21's show on the 15th. If I run into her, I'll be nice. Easier said than done, but I will try.
I see my counselor again on Tuesday.
I have a memory box by my bed. I started it when my grandmother got sick in 2001. I never open the box or even go through it unless I am putting something in there. It contains some very sentimental things from my grandmother, my mother and brother....things that I held onto from around the time of their deaths. Cards, letters, important papers, stuff like that. Today I had to get into it because the place that is taking care of my grandfather needed some financial information. While going through it, I came across a very loving letter that XW gave to me right before my grandmother died. I wanted to read it so bad....I wanted to throw it away so bad.....after reading the first few words, I decided to fold it up, and put it back in there. I decided that it wouldn't do me any good reading it. I do remember it being a very loving letter. Reading it would just make me wish that she still felt that way.
I also came across a copy of a letter that I had written to my grandmother less than a week before she died. It basically told her how I looked up to her and how I consider her my hero. She loved it so much that she was actually buried with it. I didn't read this one either, but I remembered the look on her face the day that she read it...the tears of joy and happiness in her eyes....the cry that we had together after she read it.
It is funny how grief works. My grandmother died 13 years ago tomorrow (October 1). I ended up having a good cry for her today....13 years later. Not about XW...but for my grandmother. My hero.
Is that weird? Or maybe something that I needed?
Sorry to ramble.
Tad
Ramble on. That's how you heal. This is the right path. Carry on my friend. Start hanging out with people from work. Allow yourself to open up and trust others again. BUT always understand that the chance of getting hurt will always be there. However that is not ALWAYS the case.
Thanks MrBond. I'm trying. Really wish I could just snap out of it and be totally done with her, but I know that is not the case.
Today was the 13th anniversary of my grandmother's death. I plan to visit her grave in the next day or so.
This time of year is really rough for me for many reasons:
Start of the holidays
My uncle died
My grandmother died
We buried my brother
Wife told me she wanted a divorce
Divorce was final
ALL in October
Plus...my mom, who passed away this past January, shared her birthday with me on the 25th of October.
I really do hate this time of year. It may sound crazy, but I can even feel it in the air. I really can.
Found out tonight that a bunch of XW's family is going to be at S21's show on the 15th. Me? I'm sure I'll be sitting alone.
I'm going out tomorrow night. I don't know what I'm doing yet, but I'll think of something.
Tad
Tad
Found out tonight that a bunch of XW's family is going to be at S21's show on the 15th. Me? I'm sure I'll be sitting alone.
I have 3 ideas.....
1) Ask someone to go with you - even if it is a co worker.
2) Go dressed as a women so your ex would not know it is you
3) Hire an escort to go with you. A total knock out. It would be worth the money......to see the look on your ex face.
Okay, just kidding about # 3.
On a serious note, you sound a lot better dude. The Oct blues will pass man. November will be here in no time.
Hey Tad. I'm sorry this is a tough time of year for you. Here's a thought, do something different in October. Plan a trip every year..even if it is just a day trip. Or do something really special with your sons and make it a tradition. Make this time of year something other than a sad one.
Go with the woman to the conservatory. It sounds like a new friend you can make and you have something in common. Just do it, Tad. Sometimes you have to take the first step even when you cant see the whole staircase, ya know?
It really would be good for you to go out with people some of the time. You said you have an interest in astronomy. Is there a class you can take or a meetup with that interests or others you may have.
I know by me the library has some stuff for adults and it's free or the parks department and the fee is small. You have to think outside the box a little and just go for it.
You can do it, Tad.
As far as going to see your son. I would be dressed fine. I would walk in there with my head held high because you have nothing to be ashamed of. Show confidence even if you have to fake it. Can you go with one of your other sons?
Sometimes you have to take the first step even when you cant see the whole staircase, ya know?
Thanks Eric and Ur.
I will go, look nice and behave. I really hope she says nothing to me.
I realized earlier today that when I was in my memory box the other day, I did not see my grandparents' wedding rings. My grandmother gave me her ring right before she died and my grandfather gave me his because he wanted them to be together.
So....
I looked in the box for them today.
They are GONE. Both of them.
Who would steal them?
Now that I think of it, they've been gone a while because I haven't even really looked into that box since before XW's MLC started. The last time I remember seeing them was before the MLC hit.
My grandparents' wedding rings.
GONE.
Wow.
Tad
Just checking in....
Still haven't found out what happened to my grandparents' wedding rings and probably never will. I think they somehow were stolen/lost during all of the chaos at the end of 2010 and through 2011. God knows there was chaos....
I'm going to my son's show this Wednesday. XW will be there and I am dreading it. I'm going for him though. I'm going to have to get used to it I guess. He also has a show planned for November and one for December. XW will be at those too. Ug.....She seems to be trying to reconnect with the boys lately. I could be wrong though.
Still seeing my counselor for now. I was telling her about this site and she suggested something that I thought was crazy at first. She suggested that I go back and read some of my early posts. So, the past few days I've been reading them when I have a spare moment or two. I've actually started compiling them and making one big document out of them. Some things that I noticed:
1- For some reason, it has almost been therapeutic. Not sure why.
2 - It didn't hurt reading them as much as I thought it would. Yes, reading them sucked and hurt, but not like I thought that it would.
3 - There was a lot that I had forgotten about. I mean A LOT.
4 - Some of the postings do not even sound like me. They don't sound like me at all. I figure either I was in a pretty thick fog myself or I've just changed that much. It was weird reading them....not me at all.
5 - The thing that upset me the most - realizing how much I did wrong. I was so hurt/scared/upset....I just did so much wrong. It makes me really p!ssed at myself.
Oh well....that's all for now. I'll check in after my son's show...
Take care.
Tad
Tad,
I'm glad your therapist suggested that you go back and re-read your old postings because it will show you just how far you've come from the day your world was rocked. There is a saying that goes like this "sometimes you have to go back in order to move forward". This is so true for so many who come here and post.
You've come a long way from those earlier dark days. Yes, it is very therapeutic to revisit the past and you are strong and wise enough now to re-read them and see where you once were and were you are now.
As for the shows, go for your son and leave your xw to her own little drama. I'm sure the place will be big enough that you will not have to be in constant contact w/her.
You've come a long way...continue moving forward.
Tad,
I'm glad your therapist suggested that you go back and re-read your old postings because it will show you just how far you've come from the day your world was rocked. There is a saying that goes like this "sometimes you have to go back in order to move forward". This is so true for so many who come here and post.
You've come a long way from those earlier dark days. Yes, it is very therapeutic to revisit the past and you are strong and wise enough now to re-read them and see where you once were and were you are now.
You know WHY this is true?
Because now you are DETACHED.
You are not attached even to yourself(when you were writing those posts)
So YES you have changed.
Just by making the detach change!
You know the single most important thing that we DO!
Thanks Job and Cadet.
It is so weird reading my older stuff. The posts just don't sound like me at all.
So.....I went to S21's rock concert last night. As for XW being there, it went smoothly. We saw each other, but I didn't say hello to her and she didn't speak to me. I did find a few things interesting though.
1 - When I wasn't in sight, I could see her looking around the room a few times. Looking for me? I don't know.
2 - I was talking to S28 and she came up like she wanted to join the conversation. Again, I didn't even look at her.
3 - Her friend Laura who met her there spent just as much time talking to me (if not more) than XW. Then after the show, came up to me again, told me goodbye and left rather quickly.
4 - Her niece and brother in law (guy married to her sister and daughter) spent more time hanging with me than her.
5 - Brother in law told me that since we split, XW has quit talking to HIM. He said she rarely speaks to him and they went nearly three years without saying a word. Weird seeing how they were always fairly friendly and always seemed to have some good conversation.
6 - Realized last night that I still love her. (%^#@#$^&$) Guess maybe I always will.
7 - XW told S19 that she regrets how our D all "went down." I'm assuming that she meant she regrets that she got caught....I don't know.
Anyways, that's about it for now. He has another show on the 20th of November. I guess I'll get to do it all over again.
My little furbabies (rats) are still hanging in there, but showing their age.
They are coming up on their second birthday next month.
Tad
wish the little "furbabies" happy birthday
Thanks Eric. I will.
So S28 told me yesterday that after XW left S21's concert the other night, she made a few comments to him about how I "ignored her all night."
WTF?
Excuse me for not saying hello. Doesn't it work both ways? She didn't say hello to me either. And....I didn't "ignore" her. I just chose not to say hello. Am I supposed to give her attention???? I was actually happy that I didn't have to interact with her. Besides, why does it matter to her anyway? She chose this....she chose not to be married to me or have me in her life. Give me a break. S21 has another concert next month and I don't plan on talking to her then either. I "ignored" her. HAHAHA. Sorry sugar britches. Too bad.
I received some good news yesterday. My best friend who moved to Chicago after XW went nuts is moving back to Phoenix! He told me yesterday that he'll start his cross country trek on Halloween. This made my day and I can't wait to see him. He's really the only friend I have left from my radio days. It'll be good to have him back in town.
Tad
Tad,
I wouldn't give your xw's comment a second thought. It's the d@mned if you do and d@mned if you don't scenario. Ignore her behavior. You did what you needed to do to enjoy your son's concert.
I'm happy to see your friend is returning to Phoenix. Maybe the two of you can find some things to do together every now and then.
Keep up the good work!
"she made a few comments to him about how I "ignored her all night.""
Did you? You still haven't dealt or learned how to deal with her. You will ALWAYS be connected because of your kids. BUT it is YOUR fear that has made you resentful and afraid to interact with her.
Have you continued going to C?
Did you? You still haven't dealt or learned how to deal with her. You will ALWAYS be connected because of your kids. BUT it is YOUR fear that has made you resentful and afraid to interact with her.
Have you continued going to C?
No. I do not feel that I ignored her at all. Nor do I feel like she ignored me. I didn't seek her out and she didn't seek me out. I simply have nothing to say to her. I found it quite refreshing getting through the evening without having to deal with her. I chose not to say anything to her. If she would have said something to me, I would have said something back, but I'm actually glad that she didn't. I didn't feel like she "ignored" me at all. As for her, what was she expecting? As I said, it goes both ways, but it obviously bothered her more than it bothered me.
Yeah, I'm still going to counseling.
Tad
And has the C discussed your ongoing resentment?
We have discussed it.....but I think I will always be a little angry over what she has done. I married her when I was 17. I'll be 47 later this week. I've known her 2/3 of my life and she threw it all away. There is still some anger there about it and I'm sure there will always be a little anger, just not as intense.
Also, I don't think it is bad that I don't want to be friends with her. That just sets me up for more hurt because for some strange reason, I still care about her.
I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only one on this board that will not be friends with their X. Like I said, it is better for ME not to be her friend. Sorry, I just can't. Yes, I'll be friendly if spoken to, but I'm not hunting her down for it or initiating it.
Tad
Let's be honest here. BOTH of you contributed to the downfall of your M. While you are not responsible for her A, you had a hand in it's demise.
No one said that you had to be friends with her. But you will ALWAYS be bound to her because of your children. Your kids deserve to not feel uncomfortable to have their mom and dad together in the same area. THAT is up to you.
Let's be honest here. BOTH of you contributed to the downfall of your M. While you are not responsible for her A, you had a hand in it's demise.
You're right. I've never denied that. There is a lot I could have done better/differently, but like you said, she is responsible for the A, plus all the lies she has told and all of the hurtful things she has said and done.
Your kids deserve to not feel uncomfortable to have their mom and dad together in the same area.
Which is
exactly why I chose no contact at all. It's best for me and them.
Tad
Which is exactly why I chose no contact at all. It's best for me and them.
I get this ^^^ Tad....
Although a good working R is best for the kids. A good working R requires TWO people.
"Which is exactly why I chose no contact at all. It's best for me and them."
Avoidance isn't dealing with it. Look, it's your choice, but I will tell you that once you learn to forgive and release everything, a HUGE weight will be lifted off your shoulders. You will actually start to see the good side of things and start to be more optimistic.
If you choose to live in the shadows, then nothing gets healed. It festers, grows and consumes you like a cancer. That's what anger and resentment does.
If you want to live like that, the choice is yours.
I'm assuming that she meant she regrets that she got caught....I don't know.
Yes assuming. Its a horrible thing to do even with people who get along.
So S28 told me yesterday that after XW left S21's concert the other night, she made a few comments to him about how I "ignored her all night."
WTF?
Why is your son feeding you this information? Does he not like you?
More importantly, why are her words affecting you to this degree?
You want to NOT be her friend. I get that and if my path had gone that way, I wouldn't have been friends or friendly with my wife. HOWEVER, you are too tied and too invested in her to not be her friend/enemy/or stalker.
What you want Tad requires you to become indifferent to her and not care...not care about the bad, and harder still not care about the good.
Please give credence to Bond. Actually put some thought into what he is saying Tad.
It's a tough one to be sure. I can honestly say that I choose not to talk to my ex either. Rather, not to seek her out and talk to her. In time, I doubt I'll have even that barrier.
Are the wounds deep. Of course. Does that matter? No. That was yesterday. Or in some cases, continuing. I don't know about you, Tad, but I find that it works for me to not talk to my ex. I am friendly, to the point, and answer legitimate questions as they arise. But after years of abuse from her and her husband, I'm not sold on the idea of one person being able to have a conversation, however polite. That's not about me - that's just how I choose to deal with it for now until I can find a different way. I can say I've tried to have a co-parenting relationship. That's just not possible if I'm the only one that is willing to find a way. Is that how it is in your case or are you the one holding things back for your own reasons?
But to be honest, it's difficult to keep going back for more abuse until you have finished working on you, Tad. I suspect that's a better way to handle it for now - focusing on you.
My $0.02,
AJ
Hey guys. All that ^^^^^^ discussion... hitting close to home. I don't know. I have no reason to go out of my way to talk to xh. At least, that's how I feel. This was his choice. Not mine. His decisions have caused our current sitch. Yup, I had part in what our r had become. But I will be damned if I say that I played a role in the demise of it. I would have done anything to, at least, work on it. Not just walk out without warning. Never. Not go to someone else and work on a new r. Nope. Not ever.
I guess I am sharing this because I really get what Tad is saying. It makes sense to me. I feel like all the effort was put into ending the r by my x. If he so inclined to have a r or whatever now, it would be up to him to put the effort forth to establish that, too. As far as I'm concerned, he wanted this. This is what he said he wanted. I let him go. I am here. I have never closed the door to a discussion or conversation. Why should I put effort when it is clear to me that I don't need to.
Maybe I sound resentful. I'm ok with it. I am not mean to him. I would rather keep it at zero. Any doing in either direction will not be initiated by me. Doesn't mean it will stay like this, but it will unless he makes a change in the dynamic.
No hijack intended, Tad. I guess it struck a chord with me. Ok, but I guess I hijacked anyway.
Rock out with your kids. I love it. I think kids tell us things because they feel safe talking to us. And because I think they are confused, so they look to us to see our reaction or clarity. Just bouncing things off of us, I guess.
But I will be damned if I say that I played a role in the demise of it.
I don't know your entire situation Mighty, so please don't take this the wrong way.
Everyone here had some sort of effect that helped the demise of their marriage. The idea is to figure out what that was and NEVER repeat it in any future relationship.
"But I will be damned if I say that I played a role in the demise of it."
Everyone plays a part in the demise of their M. Not taking responsibility for your own part is why many people can't save their M.
Jack and MrBond. I totally respect what you are saying. I really feel that I had a lot to do with where my r was. A lot. I have taken much accountability and continue to do so. However, by demise, I mean, I did not take the place where we were and throw it out carelessly. The r was soooo able to be saved and I would have done anything to make that happen. To me, demise means walking away and leaving beyond repair or effort to repair.
I am accountable for my actions that led to dissatisfaction in my r. Demise takes it to a whole new level. Throwing it away without a conversation... I wouldn't have done that.
Demise to me, means death. Walking out on your marriage without putting any thought or effort into it is killing it. We weren't perfect, and I sure wasn't. But overall, it was a good marriage. One worth saving.
I am not trying to argue semantics nor come across as better than my xh. I just know it was something worth saving, not killing.
Not just walk out without warning. Never. Not go to someone else and work on a new r. Nope. Not ever.
I guess I am sharing this because I really get what Tad is saying. It makes sense to me. I feel like all the effort was put into ending the r by my x.
This is still part of the discussion as far as I can see.
The thing is Mighty, there are two different things going on and being said. You (like all of us) had a part in the demise of the relationship. Whether 1% or 99% or somewhere in between.
In the demise.
In how it ended? No. That was their choice in HOW to end it.
Your values are such that you wouldn't have walked away. Many of us here share those values. Your ex? Not so much. In the grand scheme of things, he choose something else. As did Tad's ex. As did mine. As did...
What's happened, happened. The question is what you'll do about it now. Or in the future. What I was trying to convey is that it takes two. Somebody has to be able to reach out.
When that somebody is ready and not before. Why? Because the kids. Because nobody needs to still hold on to the junk that transpired.
Now may not be the time, Mighty. Tad. (me). But at some point, you'll need to release it all and put it in perspective. To take the things worth learning from this point in time and incorporate those things into your life. When you do, you'll be able to not be affected by your ex. To be in the same room with them REGARDLESS of what they may say or do.
Now may not be the time for that. It may not happen for years.
But at some point, you'll need to let it go. Even let the hurts go. It's harder when the ex tries to inflict hate and discontent on you. I live that; I know how it can be. While that is going on, it may not be the time for letting it go together, but it is certainly the time to let it go for YOU.
You really don't need them to be complicity in letting it go and NOT being affected by their actions. For now, it might mean keeping your distance emotionally and physically. But things change over time... Something to think about.
AJ
I agree with you guys. I had a part in the breakdown of our marriage. I am up for the challenge of facing the mistakes I've made. I had clarity soon after bd which was a mirror image of damage I had done. I faced those and talked with xh about those things. I apologized. I have since discovered more things. Not just mistakes, but things I could have done better or improved.
Please don't see me coming across as being unaccountable. I understand what your are saying and value it, too. That's why I come here.
I guess I associate the word "demise" to the nuke in my r. Something that took any last thread of hope or attachment that there was and burned it to ashes. It was dead. That is my recent realization.
Again, I have to look at the big picture here. I understand what you guys are saying. The whole communication thing... I still have a lot of work to do. A long way to go.
I guess I feel that, since the nuke, I don't have much to say. Nothing that xh would value. So I don't find it necessary to go out of my way to establish a friendship of sorts (as sad as that makes me) since I am not seen as any value to him.
I guess the word "demise" was taken differently for me. I see what you guys are saying. I hope you can understand the context in which I was using it.
I am aware I have a long way to go, yet. I am facing it, one step at a time. Maybe someday I will feel differently.
I didn't mean to hijack. I guess seeing what Tad is feeling makes me scared that I will still be feeling this way down the road. I totally understand how he feels. I feel for him to have to continue to deal with that.
Maybe that's the point? What do we need to do to not have to "deal" with it? Hmmm... sometimes the light bulb start to glow as I type.
My apologies, Tad, if I am hijacking. I am looking for opportunities for growth. Sorry it had to be on your thread.
No apology needed Mighty. There is a lot of good stuff here. Let's see if I can dive in and take a stab....
Avoidance isn't dealing with it.
You may be right but dealing with
it is different than dealing with
her. I can forgive (eventually), but even when I have forgiven her, I will still not be her friend. I'm not going out of my way at functions to talk to her. Right before she moved out, she told me that we needed to be friends to work on our marriage. Seriously. Well, she hasn't done one thing to show that me that she wants to be friends. She HAS lied and cheated and made up stories about me. "Friends" don't do that.
What you want Tad requires you to become indifferent to her and not care...not care about the bad, and harder still not care about the good.
Please give credence to Bond. Actually put some thought into what he is saying Tad.
JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
Thanks for stopping by.
Indifferent. I love that word. That is what I'm striving for. I think maybe my whole view got twisted here a little bit. I guess what I'm trying to tell everyone is:
I simply do not care whether I ever talk to her again...or atleast getting closer to that point.Everyone preaches no contact. Well, that is where I'm at. NO CONTACT AT ALL. She can say hello to me, and she'll get a hello back. That is all. Any "friendship" or conversation will be 100% initiated by her. I don't think that it's a bad thing, nor do I think that being that way makes me "resentful."
As for MrBond. I respect what he says and know that he is right most, if not all the time.
I don't know about you, Tad, but I find that it works for me to not talk to my ex. I am friendly, to the point, and answer legitimate questions as they arise. But after years of abuse from her and her husband, I'm not sold on the idea of one person being able to have a conversation, however polite. That's not about me - that's just how I choose to deal with it for now until I can find a different way. I can say I've tried to have a co-parenting relationship. That's just not possible if I'm the only one that is willing to find a way. Is that how it is in your case or are you the one holding things back for your own reasons?
Exactly AJ. I find it easier for ME, to be this way. The less I see or talk to her is better for ME. For some stupid reason, I still have feelings there....it's just better not to interact with her. Do I want her back? Hell no, but there are feelings. This site is about taking care of oneself. That is what I'm doing....what's best for ME.
As for co-parenting, my youngest will be 20 in December. There isn't much co-parenting left.
Down the road when my kids get married or have babies and the X and I are in the same place, I will be nice and speak to her, but ONLY if spoken to first. That is how it will be. For ME.
But to be honest, it's difficult to keep going back for more abuse until you have finished working on you, Tad.
Amen. Why put myself out there just to be abused and hurt again? No thanks. I'm done being hurt.
I don't know. I have no reason to go out of my way to talk to xh. At least, that's how I feel. This was his choice. Not mine. His decisions have caused our current sitch. Yup, I had part in what our r had become. But I will be damned if I say that I played a role in the demise of it. I would have done anything to, at least, work on it. Not just walk out without warning. Never. Not go to someone else and work on a new r. Nope. Not ever.
Well said Mighty. Like you, I would have done ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to save my M. ANYTHING.
Maybe I sound resentful. I'm ok with it. I am not mean to him. I would rather keep it at zero. Any doing in either direction will not be initiated by me. Doesn't mean it will stay like this, but it will unless he makes a change in the dynamic.
Again....well said. That is me 100%.
I don't find it necessary to go out of my way to establish a friendship of sorts (as sad as that makes me) since I am not seen as any value to him.
Exactly. What is the point? There isn't one. My X told me that I'm dog sh!t, terrible husband, blah blah blah. Ok. That's how she feels. Fine. I'm ok with that now, just don't expect me to be a friend.
As for me mentioning that she told S28 that I "ignored" her, it didn't bother me at all that she said that. I actually found it kind of funny. As I already stated, it goes both ways. Yes, I'll be nice and cordial if.........SHE initiates it. I'm not going out of my way for her. That's what works for me and that is how it's going to be. MY CHOICE because it works. As I stated above, I can forgive her.....but that doesn't mean I have to initiate any kind of dialogue. And just because I
don't initiate, doesn't mean that I
haven't forgiven her.
HAVE I forgiven her? No. Not yet. Still working on it.
I don't know....it feels like I have turned a corner in the last few weeks. Something is different. I just don't care. Before my son's show, I was really dreading it. I was dreading seeing her and hoping that I didn't have to talk to her. It was easier than I thought it would be. Maybe I am getting closer to being "indifferent." I'm not sure what it is.....
In other news.....I've been talking a lot to a woman at my work. She has the same passion for older music that I do. (Beatles, Doors, all the awesome Motown stuff.) She is 35 and I'll be 47 later this week, but we have tons in common. She has never been married and is cute as a bug.
Ehhh.....
Tad
P.S....will some of you check out Matt's thread? He's having a pretty hard time these days.
Everyone plays a part in the demise of their M. Not taking responsibility for your own part is why many people can't save their M.
Mr Bond, please could you explain this a bit more please? I don't want to assume what you mean.
Tad apologies for the thread jack
No apology needed.
I too, would like for him to explain this a bit more, but I THINK what he means is:
We ALL have things we could have done better. No marriage is perfect.
I know that there are plenty of things that I could have done better or differently.
Tad
"Everyone plays a part in the demise of their M. Not taking responsibility for your own part is why many people can't save their M."
"Mr Bond, please could you explain this a bit more please?"
Sure. As much as LBS wants to believe that the WAS is entirely at fault, a M is made up of the push and pull of two people. What one person does affects the other. Each person in that relationship has their own set of beliefs, values, personalities, etc. There will always be conflict and disagreements between the two. It's how those disagreements are handled that determines if a M will grow or fail.
Over time it's easy to take the other person for granted. What you thought were once "cute" actions about your spouse, change into irritating ones. Even though that person's actions may not have changed, your perspective has. And rather than appreciating that part of the person that you thought was endearing, turns to snarky remarks which in turn makes the spouse shut down out of shame. Then when someone new comes along who recognizes and appreciates the "cute" action that the other spouse has taken for granted, the spouse gravitates towards the new person.
M is full of incidences like this. Then you add kids, work, money and it can be a recipe for disaster if not managed correctly by BOTH people. The door swings both ways.
You can never slice anything so thin that it doesn't have two sides to it.
Bond,
You are correct to a certain degree.
Where I think differently is in the case of the MLCer when they just simply detonate the M into smitherens because of their own chit and they just won't listen to reason. Irrationality is the operative word here in MLC land.
One could say that the LBS needs to own up to the 50% of the equation in the breakdown. No way are they ever responsible for the complete and utter demise of the M because the MLCer just simply chose to run away.
I think this...
As much as LBS wants to believe that the WAS is entirely at fault, a M is made up of the push and pull of two people. What one person does affects the other. Each person in that relationship has their own set of beliefs, values, personalities, etc. There will always be conflict and disagreements between the two. It's how those disagreements are handled that determines if a M will grow or fail.
...applies to "rational" people in the simple WAS-LBS pairing in other forums. It just doesn't work at all for the MLCer who simply walks away and even torments their former spouses (i.e. Bea, AJ...etc) even years after the divorce.
The LBS couldn't even SAVE their own M's even if they've scored a couple of perfect 10's in the DB Olympics when it comes to the MLCer.
No dice.
The thing with someone in MLC is that they tend to exaggerate issues that were there previously. Sure they blame alot of it on the LBS, but it stems from somewhere. Sometimes it's from real issues in the M, sometimes it's from their past. And let's be clear. MLC occurs in varying degrees in different people. Some can be talked to rationally, some takes some convincing of what the truth is and some change history altogether. The majority of people are the first two.
I have to chime in here too.
I believe that while it does take two people to make a marriage work, it really only takes one person to destroy it.
Does that mean I couldn't have been a better wife in many ways?
Not in the least.
And those things, as I have come to see them, are the focus of my self-improvement.
But I know that if I am guilty of doing anything destructive in our marriage, it was being trusting, complacent, and forgiving.
I trusted when I should have verified, I made allowances for his "depression" and "bad childhood".
I backed off when voicing my concerns about his emotional distance turned into manipulative arguments designed to deflect.
I BELIEVED HIM.
I was his wife and I believed that he had my best interests at heart.
I thought that's how it was supposed to be.
How was I to know that the wool was being pulled over my eyes? I didn't even know he was capable.
I am wiser now.
But I am no more responsible than I was before.
I was a trusting, loving, and loyal wife. I always treated him with respect and kindness.
Although far from a perfect mate, I am proud of how I conducted myself during our marriage, and (but for a few horrible weeks when I was out of my mind with shock and grief), I am proud of how I have conducted myself thus far.
I plan to live with as few regrets as possible, and to be honest, I do not hold any great regrets about my behavior in our R, other than I tend to believe the best of people, and my husband most of all.
If I feel I was anything, it was that I was a fool.
---(G)GGG
"it really only takes one person to destroy it."
No. It takes one person to end it. No one is absolutely perfect in a M.
"But I know that if I am guilty of doing anything destructive in our marriage, it was being trusting, complacent, and forgiving. "
This seems like an oversimplification. Everyone (whether intentional or not) has hurt their spouse in one time or another. I'm not talking about full blown beating the other person, but a snarky comment here, a put down there...those are all destructive in varying degrees.
...applies to "rational" people in the simple WAS-LBS pairing in other forums. It just doesn't work at all for the MLCer who simply walks away and even torments their former spouses (i.e. Bea, AJ...etc) even years after the divorce.
The LBS couldn't even SAVE their own M's even if they've scored a couple of perfect 10's in the DB Olympics when it comes to the MLCer.
No dice.
I'm with Wonka here. I think what you're saying Bond is very true and insightful when both partners are rational...but, add severe depression,
addiction, MLC...whatever...if one person isn't dealing with a full deck, you still won't have a full set of cards no matter how hard you shuffle. And I, for one, shuffled really, really hard.
I really agree with everything that has been said here. If we all think that we were the PERFECT spouses, we'd be lying to ourselves.
I also think a mistake that probably every single one of us made was we became comfortable in our relationships. Time has a way of doing that....it just happens.
Tad
Some can be talked to rationally, some takes some convincing of what the truth is and some change history altogether. The majority of people are the first two.
Tad's thread is now wholly thread-jacked! I think I see what you mean. All marriages have seeds of dissatisfaction within them. However, MLCers are often unhappy for reasons that have little to do with the marriage, but tend to blame the marriage and its imperfections, their marriage partner, and often the children, for their unhappiness.
As the late and great Frank Pittman said, an affair is NEVER the answer to marriage problems, but many MLCers see it as the escape hatch and the life belt.
I am not suggesting that anyone needs to live a life that they no longer want to live, but rather that possibly MLCers are in the grip of forces that overwhelm them.
"MLCers are often unhappy for reasons that have little to do with the marriage,"
That's not necessarily true. Sometimes their unhappiness does stem from the M. You can't make a blanket statement like that in all MLC cases.
Many people are quick to label their problem as their spouses' MLC. There are many here on the board who I've seen call their spouse in MLC, but it's obvious there is another M issue going on.
Again, EVERYONE goes through midlife "transitions". Not everyone hits the point of a "crisis".
EVERYONE goes through midlife "transitions". Not everyone hits the point of a "crisis".
Well said ^^^
"MLCers are often unhappy for reasons that have little to do with the marriage,"
That's not necessarily true. Sometimes their unhappiness does stem from the M. You can't make a blanket statement like that in all MLC cases.
I don't think I did make a blanket statement - if it appears blanket, I didn't intend it to be so. Yes, sometimes a MLCer is unhappy with the marriage, in which case once they have left the marriage things will be much better. From what I have seen, this doesn't always happen.
I do not believe that 'many' people are quick to label their problems as their spouses' MLC: in some cases I suspect that there is an element of this, but we actually do not know, do we?
The purpose of this particular board to help those whose marriages, one way or another, are, or appear to be, particularly affected by an apparent sudden change in overall behaviour of their spouse: the change usually extends far beyond the relationship between the couple Of course there are other possibilities, but MLC can be a reason.
If everyone was making their midlife transition without crisis then we wouldn't need this board - there are lots of other forums.
Dealing with someone who appears to be in crisis is very difficult - and any sensible person will try and get this independently checked, then rational discussion is not always an option.
This is my perspective - I could be wrong!!
I guess my word choice (demise) was really something! Whew!
I just have to say that I think the focus being on that one statement took away from what I was really feeling. I think a lot of people are saying the same thing, just differently. Hey! It's like a marriage!! Haha!
So, anyway, I hope that my feelings/thoughts weren't negated by my choice of words. I have to admit, at first I was feeling a little defensive. Ol' Mighty would have probably felt the need to REALLY address what I was feeling. But, I tried to explain myself. I don't know that I was really heard. So, I removed myself for a bit.
I do think that it has been an interesting discussion. I am not going to defend myself. I appreciate and value everyone's opinion here. I always take careful consideration as to what others post, whether it is to me or not.
With that said, I do stand by what I said. I am not going to reiterate it, as I don't think it is necessary. I hope others don't judge me. I am still learning. I have a long way to go. I look forward to hearing more from all of you on an array of topics.
I am accountable for actions in my marriage that could have been better. I am aware that I could have done things which would have made me a better wife. I don't believe for a second that I deserved the treatment I have received from xh for the past year. I also don't feel that I deserved to have my m end the way it did, regardless of my actions. I firmly feel that, even though I wasn't perfect, I did not deserve for my husband to do to me what he did. Not even close. My feelings about that, I guarantee, will never change.
If I may...
part of the point that Mr B seems to be making, or at least that I see in it, is that a MLCr will exaggerate the imperfections of the spouse. We all have imperfections of looked at through the eyes of another.
I agree there are at least three types out there. My ex falls easily into the last category. Does that mean I was the perfect spouse (not person)? Nope. Not by a long shot.
Oddly, my ex thought I was. To the point of irrationality. I remember stopping as I headed into work one morning when that hit me. She saw me as perfect and spent two years coming up with stories and exaggerations (my thought on that last) to help her cope. I say that dispassionately now. I haven't always, but when you see a duck..
If I was perfect, there would be no exaggerations. Therefore, I own part of the demise.
But not all are equal in this land. We're like the six blind men describing an elephant when it comes to MLC and our ex's. I say they are round
That's how I see what you're saying Mr B. I am not blameless. Like GG, I have in the past wanted to have as few regrets as possible. I have very few. I no longer see that as important as I once did. Instead, I see things as wanting to treat others as they want to be treated (within my own values and reason).
Did what my ex do make sense? No. Not even to her by her own admission. Does it matter? No, not really. It's just an event in my history that like a bad cold, continued until I stopped it. That's just life really.
Tad, what happened...happened. MLC or not, it happened anyway. Deserving or not, it happened. History is full of these kinds of stories. Stories we thought wouldn't happen to us. They do. They did.
The question for all of us? What are you going to do now? Are you going to be too scared to love again? To trust again? Are you going to become hard hearted and so cautious that you will never have that happen again? Or will you realize that people are people and you may get hurt again if you take the risk.
You'll certainly remain hurt if you take the other approach and become hard-hearted and too protective.
Boil it all down and you only fear losing what you have. Do you have anything (yourself included) that you can't get back? Can you give yourself away and grow from it? Will fear of losing and having to deal with uncomfortable situations keep you locked into a hate spiral?
Not the hero of my story. I flat out refuse to become a prisoner of the past. The action for me right now is to not respond to my ex. That's just where she is in things and that's where I am in things. I won't keep going back for the abuse; that would be silly. And I know of no other way around it but to be completely detached in all aspects - to prevent her from using the kids any longer to try and hurt me.
But at some point, that will fade away as an avenue to hurt me. For her. She'll catch up. That's going to be the time I'll have to decide if I'm going to talk to her or not.
In your case Tad, if she is not actively trying to hurt you (or her husband) then you have an easier path, when you're ready, to be able to honor the past you lived with her. To be honest with yourself and her about the time you spent. And about the feelings you had for her. And her you. And you can heal from that. And grow. It's called reconciliation and if you're lucky to have that (not a restored relationship) you may want to consider it. All of us should. When you are ready. That's the other half of the thin sliver Mr B talks about - YOU.
How will you live your life? In anger? With hate? Or with love and honor and respect and freedom from the past inflictions?
Regardless of the ex's behaviors (past and present) that choice is solely up to you. I know - I walk that talk.
AJ
Wow. Thanks for the responses everyone.
time for a new thread. It is here:
Friend or Friendly?Peace.
Hi Good folks, Just to share with you what happened last Friday evening. My youngest D Dawn went to her Mums straight from work for an evening meal.
Well the OM Nic wasn’t there (he was in hospital having a brain transplant, sorry I meant an operation on one of his legs) Dawn said that sometimes she seems to worry about things. Her mum listened to what she was saying, before she said the following with tears in her eyes. “I wouldn't have left you and your sisters if you were at home, that’s why I left a note”. (She left in the daytime, the note read as follows: I’m so sorry, bye Liz).
I do know that in no way would have Liz been able to tell our girls face to face that she was leaving them.
Love
Delboy