Hi Everyone. I have been over on the Newcomers forum for about a year now. Realizing my situation seemed more extreme tham most there I looke at other forums. reading the MLC forum I found a lot of the craziness I am dealing with in other stories here.
My wife has suffered from depression most of her life. During the winter of 2013 I was very ill and put on a strong dose of prednisone.I had a strong negative reaction on it and ended up with police and a stay in hospital to allow it to leave my system.
My wife had been having issues and signs I should have seen. unfortunately she chose to move out and take my three daughters with her. I was served papers as soon as I got out of hospital.
Since then much craziness has ensued. Multiple calls to the police. attempt to get restraining order. She ran out of money for divorce. Started running around and leaving kids for long periods of time without returning their calls.
I suspect that her depression combined with a mid life crisis was too much. She was not equipped to emotionally handle three teen girls by herself. Needless to say it came to a head and she walked out one night and tried to kill herself towards the end of April 2014.
Since then I have moved the girls back in with me. My wife has restarted the divorce. We had a little contact after she got out of hospital, but that has stopped.
At this point I am not attempting to make any contact for the last couple weeks. My girls are worried about their mom. She has expressed that she does not know what to do with her time when they are not there. My oldest has expressed concern that her mother won't be around by the time she is 25.
Thats a quick summation of my story. I will try to link to my last thread on the newcomers forum:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2465210&page=1
Lifes Twists, welcome to MLC forum. Wow, I’ve just read your last thread on newcomers. You have some challenges thrown out at you… I’m impressed with how you’ve been handling the whole situation and with your spirit. And I admire your compassion for your wife.
I didn’t read your earlier threads, so sorry if I’m asking something you’ve already posted. I understand that your W’s family is pushing for D. Why are they doing it? Do they have issues with you or your marriage?
Hi Bright,
I believe there are a few reasons my wifes family are pushing for the D. Alcoholism and depression run in their family, though they don't want to admit it. They would rather run away from it and look the other way than deal with it. I never saw my mother in law without a drink in her hand in twenty years. She used to come with her own premixed drinks whenever she visited. My father in law is a tyrant and does not like anyone who disagrees with him and stands their ground. This will be the third divorce among 5 siblings. 1 older sister and one younger brother already divorced. 1 younger sister supposedly had a bad experience with a man and has determined all men are stalkers and has never married. This will leave the oldest sister the only sibling still married. I find this amazing given how catholic my wife family is. I guess you could say her family just has issues.
Hi all,
Been a reasonably quiet, but good period. I have been spending time with my daughters. We went to the beach these past two days. I have heard nothing from the W. I did hear from my attorney that the W surprisingly agreed to most of the draft parenting plan. I am waiting to see what she does not agree to. We are at almost three months since her attempted suicide. Right now, every day that goes by without a call or the police showing up is good. I worry a bit about having to deal with bad news and telling my daughters. My daughters told me my wife is thinking about quitting her job and moving closer to an older sister in North Carolina. This would put her farther away from our daughters and the responsibility that comes with having them.
I have taken this break from working to figure things out. I feel like life is telling me it is time to change direction and seek out a new life for myself. I am very tired from all that has happened in the last year and a half. I want to find a more full filling direction for my life. I am starting a bucket list with some real goals just for me. One of my goals is to develop a means of income that does not rely on working for someone else. I want to be able to buy a house on the beach and work from my home. I still want to be able to get my girls through college. I want to be able to travel as well and take my income source with me. This will be a big change for me to be dependent solely on myself and no one else for my living.
Focusing on yourself and making a good life for you and your daughters is a good plan. You'll be in a better place regardless of what happens with your wife.
Check out the mrmoneymustache website, I think it will give you some food for thought re: your financial stuff.
Thanks kml,
I will definitely look at that website.
Today I am looking into finding a new counselor. I have a nice counselor right now, but she is the typical type that listens to you, validates what you are saying and makes a few suggestions. I don't need to keep rehashing the past. I need a counselor that is more solutions based, looking at specific issues and working on solutions. I feel that if I continue going to my present counselor, it will just reinforce a trap I think many of us fall into which is procrastinating.
hey hi and yikes!
i haven't read your old threads- just blipped into this one. You sure have had the " challenges" heaped on in the past few years.
i cannot imagine. i don't know what prednisone is or does- if you've managed to come out the other side of that sitch- whatever it is - good for you.
i have an h of 38 yrs who says he's been unhappy for 10 years (never mention4ed it before tho ) he has a ow or 2 (i discovered) - he just lied and lied to keep me around - he says stay in his life because I "mean a great deal"to him(??) he says it'll be easier for me financially (true but ???) - he keeps ow around - i hate it- i was "destroyed" - am much better now (3 yrs later ithink) - he goes back & forth to fla & nj - i'm here in nj mostly- go to fla for a month now or then- it's wierd and getting mighty "old"- i'm still tryin to db - but losing hope really. i can see & appreciate the good life(style) i've got- i hate this disconnect in r.
ta da- screwed up life in a nutshell pretty much -
I was just calling self queen of procrastination other day- so welcome to My club. i'm not proud of it- just another little fly in my ointment here. never claimed to be perfect (really nice & allotta fun sometimes) but not perfect.\ i always think perhaps - if i find out tomorrow i'm dying- i'll be very glad i did the pleasant activity rather than the chore with my last day. it's goofy i know- workin on that... (in light of last bunch of years tho - i'm glad i was immersed in enjoying what i thought ws my life before i found out it may have all been a sham forever - or before it blew to he!! as it did. (or h blew to he!!) who is that guy anyway???
I wish i had your gung-ho attitude. i do not believe for one minute i could support myself, kids, life with anyting i can "do" for a job. wierd thought - isn't it? that if someone showed up tomorrow and demanded $200,000 for my life- i could not come up with it? there is nothing about me worth that sort of money.
i never viewed self in terms of cold hard cash- humbling. tho, if he would take credit- i could do it "in the end".
you've got some big big goals set for yourself. i'd scare myself into inactivity with huge undertakings like that. .
I have trouble finding even small ones - aside from "feel even" again. my needs are soooo simple- you'd think they were giant mountains if you listened to me. i'm nto sure what to think . this mlc is insanity for sure it may be contageous because i feelnuts alot of the time.
i've at least come to agree that it's h's own issues that plunged him into "here" (wherever that is) and i cannot "fix" him. it's hard as heck to be on other side of it- wondering all the time- about someone , some r that made up your entire life. oh well huh?
The junk in your wife's family- the alcohol, the divorce- my family is (i thought) normal as apple pie- i see it all in our family too - five daughters - every one divorced - me in a r for going on 40 yrs., yet now have this mlc crappola going on with h. idk- i'm thinking it's everywhere in every family in our society maybe.
perhaps some hide it better- keep it in the dark - idk - it is a worry, what will pop out due to one's genes.
I can never figure for sure whether it is nature or nurture - how we all turn out.
i guess i just stopped by tyo say you sound very positive, result oriented and yay you.
it can't be a bad thing. taking charge.
i am more like "quietly think you are at least OKAY with who you are and what your strong & weak points are - and know i will survive this and do okay taking care of self in life - IF I HAVE TO" (only then) alone only if forced to be.
i'm more detached than in beginning and everyone is rite - it's key and it's a better mind-set. i'm still not totally neutral and detached. workin on that - one day up- one day down- still striving, but hanging in there i guess. (now that i say it)
oh y eah- procrastination- it's a bummer to break that habit- i am tormented by the notion of "going off half cocked" . last five or so years I see all around me the fallout and destruction of people who just "do it" - "say it" and let the chips fall where they may. it didn't make anyone happy- caused pain to others and leaves everyone EVERYONE (my family) a mess and unhappy and at odds. if i ever hear one more person say "i'm just being honest" before they flay someone alive- i'll scream. yeah- great "reason" - what a joke. (oh well- procrastination in sense of walking out of this r).
i've got it across board- see, i should be cleaning house up rite now and what the heck am i doing? talking to you -
i fear that really- sayin or doing things that can never be taken back. it's a real "broadening" thing with me- reining self in and NOT sayin it - not walking out - not jumping up and down.
am i better person for it- probably. has it been the worst five years or so of my entire life- you betcha.
work in progress huh? hang on- i'm thinking in the end we all make it thru to the other side- wherever tht is...
xxo
Welcome to the MLC board.
You have been around enough that you may have seen my welcome post here with the homework.
Hopefully you have already done it, if you need me to re-post it I will be glad to do so.
Keep focusing on YOU.
Keep posting.
Hi nero,
The "just being honest" thing rings so true! My W told me that the reason that she bombed me ("I want a D and I don't want to even try", ILYBINILWY, etc.) was because I asked her what was wrong as she was being so cold. She actually said "I wouldn't have said anything but you asked and I HAD to be honest"! What a load of crap! So, her "honesty" lead to "I NEVER loved you, not even the day we got married", I never "really' loved you, I can't "trust" you" (but can't tell me why or about what), the list goes on. How can they really believe that the lies they tell themselves are somehow being "honest"? How about being "honest" with themselves about all the hurt and pain they are causing so many because of their selfishness?
You can do this nero. You question your abilities too much at times as I see a really good, capable person in you! Try to remember that the person who is bringing you down is someone who can have more than one OW after 40 years with you. That he has no values if he can do that and think there is ANY justification for it! You are a good and valuable person, nero. You can be happy and deserve to be!
So today is my wifes birthday. In april before her suicide attempt she sent me a happy bday text. In the past she did not pay much attention to bdays for me so the text was a change for her. Since the attempt we have had no contact. Should I send her a happy bday text or would she view it as persueing?
I'd acknowledge it in a friendly manner. A simple text would be fine. That's not pursuing.
Thanks Forever,
I took your advice and just sent a simple happy Bday and nothing more. Pleasantly surprised she sent a simple thankyou. More than I have heard in a long time.
I was at the doctors yesterday for more tests. The tests still don't give an indication as to what is going on with my lungs. Today i do another CAT scan to see if there are any changes. Monday I meet with the doctor again and then schedule more tests and a biopsy. Both mean stays in the hospital. The stay for the biopsy will be about 4 days.
I sent a text to my wife to see if she was comfortable having a phone conversation to discuss the situation and the girls. Surprisingly enough she agrees to talk. This would be our first conversation since before she attempted suicide in April. I called her and we talked about what was going on. She seemed to think I was accusing her of not being there for the girls. I explained that I only wanted to make sure she was ok with having the girls for a longer period or I would make other arrangements. She wanted to make sure that I agreed that we would discuss this with our immediate family without grandparents or siblings involved. I explained that was the reason that I had called her first. I did not allow the conversation to stray off the subject. I was the one who finished the conversation by saying goodbye.
I will say that she did sound clearer than she has in a long time. I am not trying to read anything into it. I will have to see how future conversations go as I get the dates and plan for these procedures.
I am wondering if the breakdown and suicide attempt was her hitting rock bottom. I hope it was so she has only one direction to go. I know that for both attempted suicide and MLC that being ashamed of what you did is one reaction that a person has. I don't know if she blames me for her attempt or if it was being ashamed that is the cause of her silence for these past few months. I don't expect to ever know.
My time with my girls is as great as it can be. Having three teen girls is a handful for a single parent. This coming week I am taking the two younger ones as well as a boyfriend and a friend for the youngest camping in the white mountains. I have never done this alone before without my wife to help. Should be quite an experience.
What i still can never understand is how the MLCer checks out so far that they won't participate when it comes to the welfare of their children. My oldest daughter has been drawn into this whole trend of smoking HOOKAH. Yesterday a big HOOKAH pipe showed up in the bathroom being cleaned. I emailed my wife about this and suggested she should look into the dangers of smoking HOOKAH. I asked her if we could meet to come up with a joint position on this and together talk to our daughter. I get no reply. I got no reply earlier in the month when I asked for her share of the property tax bill for her car. I would think that she would at least want to help our daughter. I guess it is part of the roller coaster ride we are on.
Yesterday I got an email from my wife. It is the first email she has initiated since before the suicide attempt. She started it off with, "I have processed your going into the hospital..." This was two and a half days to process this piece of information. This is at least the second time she has used the word process. I think my wife is having issues with being able to work on or deal with more than one thing at a time. I am now seeing that if I put more than one thing in an email, that she may not get beyond the first item. this may explain why she does not deal with things concerning our girls that I have email her as I probably put in more than one issue at a time.
Has anyone else encountered this?
On another note, I am seeing my girls as moving in more and more for the long stay. They continue to move stuff back from my wifes apartment. The Wii and Xbox both showed up the other day. yesterday they asked if they could take over a room in the addition that was going to be my wifes crafting room. They explained they wanted to use it to hang out in rather than their bedrooms when friends over. They are also starting to sort through things in the house and throwing stuff out. They seem to be wanting to take more pride in their home now and want it a certain way when their friends come over.
It's best to address one topic at a time and keep your text and email messages very short. Their attention span is that of a gnat.
^^^^^^^^^^
This is gold from Job.
So, I just got some good news. On Friday I was told I would need a lung biopsy and most likely a lung transplant. On saturday I had a CAT scan in preparation. I went in today and there has been a dramatic reversal of the lung condition. I think the pulmonologist was at a loss for words or explanation. We are now looking at other causes that may be treatable including allergies and acid reflux. I am going to take this as a sign that my fortunes are changing for the better.
Miracles DO Happen!! I'm so happy for you Life. :-)
That is good news. Hopefully someone will find the reason for the issues w/your lungs and provide the right medication that will help ease the medical condition w/o surgery.
Stay positive!
Thanks Lois and job. I am going to take it as a small miracle and hope a resolution on the health will happen soon.
Now back to the other battle. My wifes attorney finally responded to the parenting plan my attorney and I came up with since he was too busy. Of course he and my wife rejected the three provisions to cover the DCF recommendations. DCF wants me to seek full custody and I had suggested primary custody. she rejected this. DCF wants me to remove the kids from her home if there is evidence of alcohol or drug during their visits. They rejected this. The third was that I have primary decision making after attempting to contact her. she rejected this as well. Asking us to remove those clauses without a counter proposal is just being a lazy lawyer. I directed my attorney to push it back on them to come up with counter proposals rather than us spending time in a phone conversation. Let her family spend some money rather than me.
It should not surprise me given the state of mind of someone having a MLC, but you would think after a suicide attempt that someone would talk some sense into her.
So today I am taking my youngest two camping in the white mountains. It is the first vacation since BD over a year ago. Surprisingly I am find it hard this morning to get motivated and get going. In the past it would have been my wife and I up early getting packed and ready to go. I would have also known there would be a partner along to share in the fun times and special moments. Even though my girls will be along, I feel a bit lonely also. I am going to keep pushing forward though and being the best dad I can be. I need some break from things to recharge even a little bit.
When I come back I am probably facing a fight to gain primary residence of my girls. My wife has indicated through her attorney that she does not agree with me having primary residence. I know that DCF recommendations plus what my wife attempted will give me the better chances in court. I hate putting my wife through this and wish she would get her brain back in gear and see what she has done and accept the changes to living arrangements it means for our girls.
Hi Life,
My W is fighting hard to have primary residence and at least 50/50 custody with my D14. Even though she works late every night, goes away often on short notice and generally not caring to do anything with D for last few years. I think it has to do with the fact that it is a stigma when a woman doesn't get primary custody in D. Think about it, when you meet a woman who is D and they say the kids live with their dad, you automatically think "Umm..why don't they live with the mother. She must have been really bad...". Right or wrong, people seem to think that way. So, for a W, they really want to avoid not getting primary!
Just a thought.
Hi Matt,
I think that is part of it. i also think she is not accepting of what she did and may have buried it all away in her brain. I think her issues are like most people with dependencies. I think until she admits her issues and works on them she won't get better.
Boy, there is nothing like seeing a friend slowly dieing to bring home how precious life is and how you should live it to the fullest everyday. I met up with a friend I had not seen since last fall yesterday. When I saw him last fall I thought something was wrong. He seemed really thin. Well yesterday I was shocked at how wasted away he was. He told me things were not good. That his heart was bad and there was nothing they could do for him. I could tell he was very troubled about what the future held for him and his family and all the other families that relied on him for their livelihood.
Looking around at the place my friend and his family had built up through the years made me realize how much he had lived life to its fullest. How many people he had impacted and how many fun memories many people had because of his efforts.I realized that I have to start living life again and not continue to trudge through it like so many people do.
Boy, this single parenting can be tough at times. My middle daughter had planned on going to beach on Friday, so I arranged things around that. Apparently the plans changed last night at midnight while they were hanging out. I had let my oldest use the other car for a couple days and only had the jeep with the beach pass on it. Daughter woke me up early to say they were taking jeep and leaving me with no vehicle. When i said I needed it, she goes off how I let me older one get everything and she gets nothing. Of course pointing out how much she got to use the jeep when boyfriend was without a vehicle for about 2 months does not count.
Is it possible that both teenagers and MLCers are this deranged?
Feels like I am getting it from both sides and no place to go at times.
So I get email and invoice from attorney this afternoon. $1860 and a request to push on a parenting agreement again. I told him I do not want to spend any more on this until wife and her attorney do something. I told him I am prepared to go into court in September with nothing if she and her attorney don't offer alternatives to our plan except to remove the sections that are most important. I told him that she initiated this divorce and she needs to push it or it can stagnate again as far as I am concerned. I am not going to carry weight of this divorce for her. I believe she is still in lala lad and will go into court figuring the divorce will be finalized. You would think after last year that she would have learned.
I can't believe how this stuff can get me wound up. I am taking some deep breaths and letting go again. It totally amazes me how an MLCer can be so out of touch with reality.
So this morning I sent a very short concise email to my lawyer as follow,"I have slept on this and my request is for you to send an email to wife's attorney and say that your client does not agree to the changes. Beyond that, I don't want any more time spent until wife is prepared to come to the table and work things out.
My reason is that I don't want to waste money nor carry the load of the divorce since she is the one who filed. The reason I am rejecting her changes i they just removed the clauses that protected the girls and myself if she has future issues. My plan at this point is to continue to not support the divorce but not block it either. I will continue to reject changes unless they are reasonable. I will also not allow her to phone this divorce in. She needs to come to the table and face what she has done to some level if she truly wants to pursue the divorce. I feel right now her family is trying to control the divorce from a distance. It is between her and me. I figure when her family gets tired of spending money then they will pull out. till then I will try and keep my lawyers time to a minimum and let hers spin their wheels. I am not sure this i proper DBing, but I feel is is the best course I have to disrupt the outside involvement.
Hi LT,
I'm having the same problems with the D with my W. Last week after she and I disagreed about her taking some items from what is now my home, she said that we had to finish going through everything so she could take what she wanted. I told her that was backwards and that we needed to agree to everything and then she can come and get what we agree she should. She got really upset telling me that would mean making lists and sending them to the L's and if I wanted that I could pay her lawyer. I told her my L is payed for and she was the one who had to file! I know that her father is controlling everything about this D (she wasn't going to file until he "talked her into it" (her words). From the start of this D she seems to think it will; all be easy and she will get everything she wants and even the kids will be happy. She was in such a hurry at first and now she hasn't done anything but try and get me to let her have everything she wants. Like you I'm not going to do the work needed for this D and just let her sit back and do nothing. She hasn't sent her financials to my L, lied and said she has no retirement, all that her decree says is "Parties will agree to details later"!!!
I still don't believe in D as an answer. I haven't changed my mind, she did. If she wants this so badly she can do the work.
Agreed.
Last night I got some great validation that I am doing the right things. I was in the living room while my daughters and friends were playing XBox. I over heard my youngest say to a friend that she would be living here in this house for at least three more years. So, she is planning on living with me till she is graduated from high school. I felt great hearing that. It told me that I am doing the right things. It also told me that my daughters are rejecting the idea that I am a psychopath that wife and her family have been trying to convince them of.
Yesterday I had my second appointment with a new IC. I left my old one because she was not really helping me. This new IC is more solutions oriented. So far it is going well and he is starting to ask me challenging questions to cause me to think about things. He asked me if I could forgive her. I told him I felt I could in giving some allowance to her illness for her actions. I told him I did have a hard time forgiving her family for their actions. He told me that he did not believe in forgiveness in the classic christian definition. He said he feels that forgiveness is not an automatic thing. Forgiveness is something that has to be earned. I can see his point. I can relate it to the idea of us doing 180s and working to improve ourselves. On one hand it is to make ourselves better but on the other we are deep down hoping our changes will help our spouse to forgive us for what they perceive we did to them to cause all these problems. So, in a small way are we trying to earn their forgiveness?
In the earlier afternoon I spontaneously took off to the beach. We live about 1.5 hours away from the Rhode Island beaches. My oldest and youngest went with me. I was surprised and pleased that my oldest went. She is the one who was most influenced by her mother and the most distant from me. We had some good talks on the drive. I had a great time body surfing in the waves. The water was an excellent temperature.
I am thrilled that my oldest is opening up more to me finally. I get little hints that she and her sisters are seeing the odd behaviors of their mother. She mentioned that her mother is having comprehending things like planning when she needs to leave to get somewhere by a certain time. She said they went to a movie on Sunday. the first activity her mother has ever suggested without being prompted. Her mom set a departure time that was really early and could not seem to comprehend that they could leave a little later. So they went and ended up sitting in an empty theater for a long time before others arrived and the movie started. I told her that it was a positive step that her mom had suggested they do something together. I told her that it showed more healing on her moms part. I told her that the timing issue could be a symptom of the illness and would improve as she gets well. I was positive towards her mom throughout and did not ask any probing questions, just responded to what she had told me.
I may be wrong. I feel that as part of DBing I need to show minimum to almost no interest in what my wife is doing for my own sanity. I also feel that I need to show this around the kids as well. I don't want them telling their mom I am asking all kinds of questions.
Is it good if they are asked by their mom that they tell her I don't ask about her at all?
So I found myself once again at a Rhode island beach yesterday, this time with all three of my daughters. The surf was great and we all hand fun boogey boarding and bouncing around in the waves. Later, I was sitting in a chair, looking out to sea and I realized how lucky I was. Last year was miserable for me with the bomb drop, little to no contact with daughters and health scares. This summer with the health scares receding and my forced summer off do to no work, I have been able to spend a wonderful amount of time with my daughters. I felt like God had put things in motion to give me back some of what I felt I had lost last year.
Right now, I know that any thing can happen and I will find the strength to go on. I will take all the positives that I have received and channel them into better things to come for myself and my daughters.
This past week had good points and bad points.
My wifes lack of communication left us short $1800.00 for our oldest college tuition. Information going to her place never reached me so that I could determine the correct amount for a student loan. We had to come up with the money by Friday or she would be de registered. I can't understand not sharing the information. She is in a panic as I asked her how she wanted to pay her half. Another bit of reality for her.
I did finish another project on the house. I built a new pantry. It is one more part of finishing the house. I now have 2 rooms left to finish and some additional repairs in other old rooms and the house will be finished.
My middle daughter decided that she was not going to let her mothers fears and issues hold her back. She asked me to help her get back into the college down south she had been accepted to. I contacted them and they are going to deffer her admission to the spring semester. She will be about a 15 hour drive away from me. I think it will do her well to learn to be on her own a bit and away from my wifes fears.
I am working on cleaning up the clutter in my life. I will have to do a better effort of doing some stuff just for myself. I have felt I needed to focus a bit on my daughters because of what happened. I think they are working through it well.
I think being and LBS with an MLCer is much like being an alcoholic with alcohol. We both have our good days and our bad days. The farther away from the issue we are in time the stronger we get in handling the emotional issue.
This past week was another quiet week for me. I continue to clear the clutter from my life. I did another major project on the house. While the girls were with their mother over the weekend I sanded the hardwood floors on the first floor. What a huge project for one person to do alone. In the process of doing this I was able to clear out and throw out more stuff that is not relevant anymore. The floors look great and the space is much more open now that a lot of stuff is not returning.
On the wife front we finally have her signature on a parenting order. Took a lot of time but I will now have the majority of the responsibility for my youngest daughter. My middle daughter turned 18 today so neither she nor her older sister are part of the agreement. During this process I found it strange what she focused on and what she allowed through this time versus last years attempt. I suspect part of it is her lawyer looking out more for her rather than trying to make a name for themselves like her last attorney. I was surprised she agreed to go to coparent counseling with me. I don't know if it is her or her attorney that is making this happen. I try not to read anything into it, but being a glass half full kind of person I have some hope that she is changing some of her position.
Like most of you, I have my down days and want to give up. I have been trying to focus more on letting go. I focus on my kids and myself right now. I have to let go of worrying about her trying to kill herself again. I know I have no control at this point so cannot punish myself if it happens. I limit all contact right now to a minimal about the kids when I need to. Other than that I am dead silent right now. I don't even ask the kids how she is doing. I am afraid if they tell her I ask that she will still think I am pursuing her in some strange way.
I can't believe summer is almost over. My oldest moves into her dorm this Sunday. My youngest starts sophomore in high school next Wednesday.My middle daughter is going to work for the fall and I will move her down south into the school she is starting as a freshman for spring term. This Thursday I am having a 24 hour test. they are putting a tube of my nose and down to a spot in my esophagus to monitor the ph level. I then go home and try to be normal for the period and then return Friday to have the tube removed. I won't say it is going to be fun, but hope it leads to more improvements in my health.
Question,
Tonight I am doing a birthday cake for my middle daughters 18th birthday. I know my wife did a simple cake for her earlier in the week. Do I invite her for cake or not? Since she already did a simple cake and did not invite me, I don't feel I need to, but wonder if it would be nice to acknowledge my daughters 18th to my wife.
My youngest told me something today that explains some things. She told me that she does not like staying at her mothers apartment as there were to many people. She like room to get away and do her own thing. The apartment does not allow that and so she wants to limit the time she has to stay there. It has been a struggle to get them to spend time down there. I guess my wife's idea that she was doing this for the girls did not work out. I don't know if she realizes this is the girls feelings. I wonder how the knowledge would affect her. I guess this is something that can come up in coparent counseling if we ever go.
LT, I'm in no place to offer advice, but I can offer possible things to consider....I'm reading and following... Bumping you up to the top, maybe someone wise has some ideas....
It is tough, when you see the kids struggling with the changes. Many things could happen by bringing it up, especially if it is received as criticism. You could be blamed for brainwashing (I got that one), your W could actually agree to have D's spend less time with her (depends on whether her priority at the moment is either control over the agreement, or freedom from responsibility), she could dismiss the issue, minimize and avoid, she could spontaneously combust....being ready for anything is always a plus for me, but having no expectations is a must.
I keep reading that as long as you keep expectations at zero, and don't take bait and turn into a fight.....idk. Might be ok to bring up. I would say just don't expect the results you're hoping for.
Hi Shinning,
Thanks for the words. I don't expect anything right now from wife. My efforts are focused on daughters and myself. I don't expect to bring anything up. I know that she will bring it up herself. She has already said to me in the past that she did not want me reminding her that I had said that we could not make it financially. I think I am in a down mood because summer is over and kids are heading back to work. I have had a great time with them and it has made up for last summers disaster. It also means that I need to get more serious and figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life. I don't think I want to work for someone anymore. I feel like I need to take the plunge now.
LT, what is it you want to be able to look back at this time and say about yourself?
Your wife has said she doesn't want you in her life. She tried suicide. She interacts with the kids, but otherwise wants her own life without you in it, right?
You are doing the right things by keeping silent, based on that. What other choices do you have?
But look ahead to what you want YOUR life to be like. While changes can be good in that they get you out of the habit loops, be careful of high-impact changes. They can add the distraction but have long lasting consequences and add a lot of stress. And since distraction may be the allure, ask yourself what you want to be distracted from. That's something to make peace with, more than likely. Not saying don't make the changes - you have less to worry about if you do than you did when you had more responsibility.
It's not easy to deal with what you're dealing with, LT. It wasn't planned nor asked for. But it is a great opportunity to make peace with some of the things in your life and a chance to try some new things. Some won't "fit" your life and others will.
One other question - what do you feel responsible for regarding your wife? Not what are you used to, but what are you really feeling responsible for?
AJ
Hi AJ,
I want to be able to look back and see that I gave my daughters a sense of stability during this period. That I gave them some good memories to counter the bad ones they have experienced. That I gave them hope during a bad period.
I can't say that I am responsible for anything regarding my wife. Given the length of and level of depression that she suffers from I am not sure there was anything that I could do that would have changed the outcome. Given Robin Williams recent suicide, no amount of money or other things can change the impact that depression has on a person. I also recently heard that 90% of all marriages with a clinically depressed spouse end in divorce.
I don't think I am looking for a distraction. I am more tired of the rat race I have been in and its uncertainty. I want to look for a way to enjoy making a living for myself and also have time to enjoy what life has available. My wifes outlook is she will just have to work till she dies. I want more than that. I am will to take risks now that I am able to make decisions for my self that may give me a better opportunity.
LT, if you're not responsible for anything she does, then it wouldn't make much sense to try and invite her for things you do with your kids, even birthdays. While you may think it would help to keep them connected, it really keeps you on the hook. Your W has to figure out what she's going to do with regards to the kids. You'll be in the position to encourage or allow it, but not to foster or help it along other than talking to your daughters. Make sense?
I get it. You have a freedom you didn't have before when it comes to your professional life. Heck, all around in your life. Makes sense to re-evaluate. I was just checking because it came across as possibly change for the sake of change. If that's not it, then I'd say go for it! Take the chances that give you the best approach to your life. For you.
I know it is tough picking up the pieces, and hard to admit (sometimes) that it is kind of a relief to not have to worry about somebody who is depressed. But I believe you are doing a great job.
Try not to look back.
AJ
Hi AJ,
For me the hardest part is letting go of the worry. Having spent 19 plus years living with a depressed spouse and a level of constant worry and taking care of her during those down periods is hard to just stop. I know my daughters see it from there comments. They are just now starting to understand some of their mothers problems. They can't understand all right now, so have trouble sometimes understanding what I have gone through. I will continue to look forward and move in that direction. I know it will have to be my wife's decision to move forward and catch up if she chooses.
I get it LT. I'm sorry for the rough road ahead, but glad you have a great perspective.
AJ
So I had my first interaction with my wife since her suicide attempt in April last evening. My two younger daughter where supposed to go down for the weekend after my middle on got out of work. They ended up getting into a fight, younger one went to her room and refused to go with middle daughter who ended up leaving and going to wife's place alone. I text wife to let her know they were fighting. That was at about 7:40 pm. I get call from middle daughter about 8:30pm to say she and wife were trying to call youngest who would not answer. I sent wife text that she is welcome to come over to talk to youngest. She responds right back that she will be over shortly. Mind you she lives 1 mile down the road. She knocks on door around 9Pm. She has clearly taken the time to get a bit dressed up and done her makeup. I invite her in and send her up to see daughter while I am doing the dishes. She comes out and visits with the dog. We start to talk and I ask her if she has noticed the floors in the downstairs. I also tell her I have finished the pantry and would she like to see it. I can tell she is blown away by the floors and the pantry by the questions and comments she makes. We spent a few minutes talking about the girls. I tell her some of the stuff that went on over the summer and how I have empathy and understanding for her when she tried to do it alone last summer. I kept the conversation strictly to the kids and the house work. I did not comment on her appearance or even ask how she was doing. I felt that she would even view that as prying. I consider what happened to be an extremely small positive step and I am trying hard not to read anything into it. I don't know what to think of the fact that she clearly had dressed up a bit and touched up her makeup. Normally after work she gets into something comfortable. I am pleasantly surprised how it went and won't expect anything more. I did tell her when she was leaving that she is more than welcome to come over anytime to talk to the girls if she wants. I hope I handle this correctly.
I hope I did not do the wrong thing this morning. Very hard to figure with what MLCers do.
Early this morning I am woken up by the dog barking. I then hear a knocking on the front door. I go down and its my youngest standing there trying to get in. She was at her mothers. I ask what is going on and she says that she is home for the day and would go back this evening. I asked how she got here and she said she walked. I asked where her mother is and she said sleeping. She then goes up to her room and closes the door.
I tried calling my wife and then text her to see what is going on. She call right back and said that daughter did not walk home that she dropped her off. Wife said she was going to be away all day and daughter did not want to stay there. I said to wife, "you going on a date." She came right back and said no, she had a part time job for more money. Said since there is no alimony and no money from the house she needed more. I asked why daughter could not just say that. She said did not know that we were confusing the girls. Said we would have to talk about it.
What is confusing is why the MLCer can't just share information like taking a second job to make ends meet. Why they seem to convince the kids to also not share basic information like this.
I am not sure if I pried too much when I said going on a date to her. Whether this will set things back or maybe open up some level of communication. I don't know if I should suggest we need to develop better level of communication so the girls are not caught in the middle like this. How do you reason with a MLCer?
LT,
I don't think you asked too much, although I wouldn't ask anything about dating . A good rule of thumb is that many people in MLC cannot be alone. However, logic and MLC are things I've found that go together like explosives and fire:-).
The vets know much more although I think they don't disclose basic info as they don't want you to know what happens in their life -like teens frequently do to parents. Since you and their previous life are the *problem,* they don't want to reveal too much. You are the exact person they don't want feedback or insight from.
Hang in there. You asked. She told and I would let it go. Just remind your kids they can lasts come to you and that you love them
Thanks GB,
My biggest problem with what happened is she just dropped daughter off without knowing if I was here and drove away. What if I had decided to go away? I know my daughter would be alright alone in the house, its just the principal of it. I also don't want her to feel the she is abandoned by everyone. My wife says she does not know why the girls lie about things like this. I believe someone is giving them the idea they need to keep what their mother is doing a secret from me. If not my wife, then who?
How do you reason with a MLCer?
Really? I think you scream into a pillow and somehow they hear it. Like riding a unicorn
What you seem to be doing is learning to co-parent. Considering three daughters, that may come in handy right?
Each of you is behind the wall and trying to co-parent. Previously you had a familiar way to do that, but now you don't. You need to re-learn how to do that and this is what it looks like, if you ask me.
Your daughter is obviously upset about things in general. While the three daughters may become very close with all of this, it's not likely that all three will handle things the same way.
Teen years are difficult enough without a suicidal mom, a dad who's grieving the loss of the marriage and family and just being a teenager.
As for doing something wrong... You cannot do something wrong when it comes to a MLCr. Except not let go of your expectations of "normal" interactions. You can be open to the interactions if they are pleasant and respectful. If they are not, do not let it continue. Outside of that, nothing can be done "wrong" with a MLCr that I'm aware of.
AJ
Lifes Twists, when I read your posts I see someone who is doing a great job with his kids. Keeping the house nice, too, that is so important. Taking care of yourself, too.
I read your descriptions of interactions with your W and it is so helpful to see how others handle it so thank you for sharing them.
I am struggling. I want to "change myself" like your signature line. I want to let go of worry and show the world I am not a scared little mouse but a confident person who can face ups and downs with grace. If I mess up today I will try again tomorrow. I will keep getting up. That's what you are doing. I will be like this, too.
So I just found out my wife took a second job working on Sundays. She lost control of her finances last year into this year before the attempt. She is apparently working in a hotel on Sundays. I suspect she may be cleaning rooms and such. She told me this morning when I partially found out that there was no alimony or money from the house. I feel bad for her. I do not see this as a bad thing. Maybe it will also be part of the wake up to all the damage she has caused. She is having to fix the damage to her credit while loosing a day with her daughters. I am hoping it will change the dynamics a bit. Maybe she will start to see that the grass is not greener on the other side. I am concerned about the anger my youngest is showing right now. Not sure yet how I am going to handle it.
LT,
I'm sorry I haven't read your entire sitch. Could your D talk to a therapist? Perhaps even a school counselor or some type of clergy?
It is a good thing for her, LT.
What are you planning to do today?
AJ
I feel the same AJ the more I think about it.
Today I am planning to look at my project list and figure out which one I work on next. I can start a big project to finish building the office or I could finish up the upstairs hallway by installing molding and rehanging some doors. I am leaning towards the hallway as I could possibly get it done today or tomorrow. All of it will be good as it clears the clutter from my life and allows me to have time for my own pursuits. I also have no idea when my youngest comes home today as that also seems to be a big secret like everything else in my wifes life right now.
Hope you have a good day planned for yourself?
The hallway sounds like a good plan. May as well make use of the time while you have it, right?
The secrets? Yep, you should expect those. 7 years later, mine still does that and tries to manipulate etc. I've learned that what doesn't matter... doesn't matter. It's annoying more than anything, but without expectations, everything is a pleasant surprise
I have almost nothing planned, just relaxing this weekend for the most part. My father recently passed away and I am working on some of the paperwork, but otherwise just enjoying the nice weather. Hope you get outside a little - it's nice across most of the country today.
AJ
It is beautiful here too, but a little muggy.
What I have not figured out is whether it is coparenting when one won't communicate things to the other. I had stepped out to get something and came home to find youngest had been dropped off. I am going to have to figure out if I need to set a boundary on this. I don't like not being able to plan a little bit. I feel she is trying to control it a little bit by not telling me. What if I had planned on being away for the day since my daughter spent the night with her. I will be planning some solo GAL weekend trips later this month into next month. I will just tell her that I am not going to be here and she needs to keep them down there till I get back.
So I get an email today from my lawyer.I hate lawyers. We have a court date for next Monday to get our agreement in place for the kids and visitation. My lawyer is also trying to get the case review for 90 days done as well on that date. He has been talking to her attorney about drafting the parenting plan, etc. I don't believe my wife has done any pushing on her attorney, yet she feels the divorce will be completed in September. I can see another 90 day period coming up pushing us into December and a very unhappy wife at this point.
I don't think there is any stopping the divorce at this point unless wife get a sudden epiphany. She and her family are so focused on this outcome that I feel it needs to happen so we have a chance of moving beyond it. I don't believe there is any fixing it till after and a cooling off period for her to see life without the benefits of being married. I hope her family are prepared to step up and help her pay her tax bill come next year. She will learn that all the deductions she counted on are now gone.
I am going to have to figure out if I need to set a boundary on this. I don't like not being able to plan a little bit. I feel she is trying to control it a little bit by not telling me.
Ya think?
And what exactly would you do to enforce your boundary at this point before the legal Olympics are completed? Just curious...
I don't think there is any stopping the divorce at this point unless wife get a sudden epiphany.
Are you saying you'd take her back? Or that you'd postpone to wait and see? Trying to get a feel for where you are in all of this.
I don't believe there is any fixing it till after and a cooling off period for her to see life without the benefits of being married.
What does "fixing it" mean exactly? Can you paint that picture for me? 'Cause I'm not sure you and I see the same things.
I can appreciate the hope, LT. I can. It's hard to watch you one step behind her in this but I get the feeling you'll catch up quickly.
To be honest, sometimes you have to lose it all to know what you had, no? Seems you may be what she'll miss, but she really hasn't had a chance to do that yet from the sounds of it.
You have older daughters. You know as well as anyone that your daughter, at 14 will be fine in the house. She isn't old enough to be alone overnight from the sound of it, but otherwise, she'll be fine. And if you are out of town or whatever?? Daughter can call her mom and get a ride back. Or her older siblings. Be careful what you focus on - there's a test later
AJ
HI AJ,
I am not sure on how to enforce a boundary on what should be common courtesy. Maybe after our agreement in regards to the children goes through the court next Monday I will be able to work this out with her during coparent counseling that is mandated as part of the agreement.
Would I take her back? I think that would depend on where I am in my own personal growth and where she is at in her head. Would I take a postponement of the divorce? No, I think this time I would want it finalized as I don't want to go on this ride again.
When I say fixing it, I mean in terms of any chance of any kind of relationship with her in the future. I believe that until she has time to see that a divorce does not mean happiness and a easier life, she won't move forward. Until she can see this I don't think we can have any kind of relationship.
I know I seem one step behind her. I think that is because of all the time I have had to protecting and helping my daughters while picking up a lot of the mess her suicide attempt left in its wake. I have spent so much time on them that I have not really had time for myself until now.
I think she is starting to get a sense of loosing it all. The problem is that since she is always a negative person it will take longer for it to settle in if it ever does.
Hey LT,
My W is doing many of the same things. She just changes the days she has custody of D14 without even bothering to let me know. My MIL just showed up in my drive one day and said that I was going to have her another week and her mother for the 2 weeks after. Not a word from my W about it. Yes, it's a control thing. It's not that I would have said no if W had asked but, like you said common courtesy.
I spent a good part of my M with a very depressed W. She talked about not wanting to go on but never actually attempted suicide. Believe me I know how living with a depressed S takes a big toll. It's like we have to be both mom and dad at the same time. With my D19, when she was in HS I was the one who took her out to get her prom dresses, took her shopping for big events, took her to those events, waited for her to take her home after, etc. The only pictures we have of her before her prom were taken by me as my W decided that she "had" to work late. Now that she is 19, she see's me as the parent that she can depend on, who was there for her all her life while she has said she couldn't live with her mom because she's so "undependable". That is just so sad to me. Since my w has left and D14 is in school, the first 5 days D14 had to ask me on 3 of those days to take her even though she was staying with her mom as her mother (her mother moved 27.5 miles away, it's like she's only a mile down the road!) couldn't be bothered to wait a half hour before going to work (she has total flexibility about when she starts her work day).
My W also took another job even though she makes plenty of money in her regular job. Since leaving my W has become obsessed about money. She never would take care of the bills, always left that to me, because she found it so "stressful" (part of her depression, I think) and I think she is stressing out about having to do it now. I have no idea how she would be able to handle it if she didn't have as good a paying job as she does! The not wanting you to know what she is doing, keeping everything a secret is just what my W does as well. Like was said, it's like teenagers who don't want mom and dad to know what they are doing.
Remember that much of how your D14 is acting is normal, teenager stuff. It's just magnified now because of what your W has been doing. If you weren't in such a state of flux with your M, it wouldn't seem as bad as it does now. But, you have no control over that now. Your W decided to do what she has and you can't stop her or even slow her down. Trying just will make her go faster. Hang in there LT. We both have to realize that we are no longer able to help our w's when they get depressed. Getting out of the "we must handle everything because W is too sick" mode isn't as easy as it sounds.
I just got email from my attorney as a follow up to finalize stuff for Mondays court date. He told me that apparently her attorney has not told her that she needs to be there nor has he prepared anything of what he was supposed to do for the court date. I guess my wife and her family really know how to pick an attorney. She had a winner last year and now another one this year. I sent a text to my wife to give her a heads up that we have court on Monday. I am sure she loved getting that at 3 pm on a Friday afternoon. I can see this process dragging out again this year.
So I woke up this morning a bit agitated about the divorce process in this state and my wifes MLC detachment from reality. The Connecticut court system forces divorces along on a timeline. It expects both parties to work together to meet certain goals during the process. After you file you have 90 days to put thing in order and file a case file. To meet these goals it takes both parties to discuss things to create parenting plans, division of property and such. Up to this last week there has been basically no contact with my wife. I have left it up to her to carry this as she is the one who wants it and has to initiate certain parts of it based on the way things are set up. On Monday we go in to court with nothing done. It will cost $600.00 plus each for this pleasure. Its almost like deep down there is some thread of activity within her that does not want this or to let go.
It never ceases to amaze me how out of touch a person going through MLC can become. It is a wonder they can function at work. I wish there was a law that in order for a person to initiate a divorce they have to be able to understand the requirement and be fully able to function and follow through with the requirements.
So I had court this morning. Another two hours of my life and $600.00 I don't have. My wife did sign the order regarding our children. I was surprised. There are things in it that she fought last year when they were proposed. My attorney found out that her attorney feels his biggest issue in this case will be controlling her father. Her father has his eyes on getting a hold of money from our house. I asked my attorney to now do his best to slow things way down. This is three fold. One it gives my wife more time in counseling both individually and in coparent with me. Second by doing it I am showing her father that he is not in control of this. It will cost him money to keep contacting her attorney. Let him run that bill up. the third reason is I am on her health insurance right now and I need it for a few more months. My attorney agreed that we can now slow it way down. He already put in place a few dates that means the next court date will be in January. Knowing the communication level of her family this means her father will continue to bug her attorney since she has allowed him access. I personally hope that he chokes when he sees the bills. Couldn't happen to a nicer person.
For me, I will continue to work on my health. I will continue to be there for my daughters. I will continue to work on myself and get a life. For now my attorney has advised me not to do any more work on the house.
I have been reading everyone's posts this week and it feels like everyone is suffering the same mood/craziness. I am wondering if it is the time of year? Kids back to school, days getting shorter, full moon. Like me, it seems a lot are aware they are having crazy dreams at night. Everyone seems a bit agitated and questioning what they are doing.
I know I am agitated. I got confirmation from lawyers that my FIL is causing trouble. I have been told to do no more work on house till things are settled. I have a court order to start coparent counseling which will cost each of us $125 per session. Not being able to work on house now leaves me feeling a bit lost and a need to find other things to do with my time.
I read a lot of us are contemplating where we stand on our divorces. I sometimes want it over now yet feel even when it is done it won't be over. Like some I feel at times a quick resolution will put me in a better place. Eventually I come back around to letting my spouse carry the load as she is the one who started it. I know I have carried the load on so many things for her over the years because of her illness. I realize now that on some of that I may have done her a disservice. I know now that I like to fix things and wanted to make her happy. I know that trying to do so may have prevented her from growing and working on her own issues. I have to let her work on her own issues, deal with her unhappiness and carry her own load. I cannot be there to catch her and carry her when she falters. So, like many others here I get frustrated that I can't fix things and fight with myself almost daily to not step in.
Today I am going to start on getting myself back to a centered place. Figure what I can do with my spare time till I can work on the house again. Today I am going to start moving forward again.
I have seen a slight shift in communication between myself and wife over the last week or so. She is actually responding to questions I may email or text her regarding the kids. After her attempt she would respond about questions directly to the girls or not at all. Never would respond to me directly. I will not make much of it and will expect it to change. its just nice to have even the smallest of steps happen.
This weekend I am finally doing something just for myself. Tomorrow I am going away for the day, meeting up with friends in another state and hopefully having a good day.This will be the first time in a long time that i have done something that i want to do without worrying about kids or anything. if all goes well I already have an overnight trip planned for next month.
I hate the good craziness almost as much as the bad craziness.
My middle daughter goes down to the apartment this afternoon to get some stuff she left there. She comes back later with a batch of homemade cookies. My wife baked a batch of cookies and sent them along with my daughter for us. You might wonder why I think this is good craziness? My wife does not like to cook, let alone cook something from scratch. She could survive on yogurt and rice cakes. This is completely out of character for her. She won't even eat stuff like this because if she ate one she might gain a tenth of an ounce extra weight and not feel good about herself.
I hate this because I don't want to read anything into it. I am afraid to think she might actually be thinking about someone else other than herself. This is actually a cosmic shift for her as she never ever did something like this even before bad day as she would not eat them so why make them for others.
It is a struggle to keep myself level as this ride goes up and down.
Would it be pursuing to send her a quick note thanking her for making the cookies and that I am sure the kids will enjoy them?
It is out of character for her to even have made them in a positive way.
Life,
You could send a text saying "the cookies are delicious. Thanks for sending them with D." Short and simple.
What I hate most about this situation is that the spouse is not there when you need to talk through concerns about one of your children.
I have concerns about my middle daughter right now. She does not seem to have the energy to get going right now. I am concerned she is dealing with some fall out from her parents situation. I also feel her boyfriend is dragging her down and is not a good influence.
I wish i had a spouse that I could talk to about these concerns. Someone who I could develop a response with. Someone who had my back while I had hers.
I know this is not possible at this time. I know she has mostly checked out. I just wish she could get even a small idea how this affects our kids.
So I took a small step with my wife this afternoon and got a reasonable response. Today I smoked a pork butt all day for pulled pork. It was a really nice size piece of pork and took 10 hours to smoke. There is so much pork I sent the wife a text message asking if she would like some sent down for her to have for dinner. I did not expect a response as it was not about the girls. I was pleasantly surprised to get a fairly quick response back that she would like that. I will chalk this up to a check in the plus column. I decided to do this based on advice I got from my DB coach in spring and from what others have gotten as well in trying to establish some level of friendship. It will take a lot of baby steps and who knows if she will respond favorably, but this was a first.
So yesterday my situation got more difficult. My 18 daughter showed up at the house with his parents. I was to find out she is pregnant. I asked that my wife be called and asked to come over so she could find out and we all discuss it together. She did com over and in the process made a few comments to me that leads me to believe that she feels I am blaming her for this. The boys parents had a lot of wonderful things to say like how my daughter can come live with them, etc. This boy will be 20 next month, quit high school so has no diploma, and is not working. So his parents are blowing smoke up my daughters a## and leading her down a bad path. My wife won't communicate with me and I feel like I am going to have to go this alone like usual and be a bit of the heavy. My daughter and his parents have to understand that I am in no way able to help her financially. I am upset that she will probably give up her college ambitions because of everything his parents are verbally telling her right now. I am also upset that I had a partner in bringing her into this world that has now checked out really.
Not sure what I should or can do.
Life,
I am terribly sorry you are dealing with his. About a yr after my xSIL left my brother due to her MLC, my niece got pregnant. She was 16. She now has a 2 year and the father has never been in the pic.
I don't have any real words of wisdom for you. However, your D is probably (or should be) scared. I'm not sure what your W can do as she appears to be in such a crisis. However, please know this. I can only imagine hoe disappointing and difficult this is. Your D is 18 and life is about to get much more difficult. You can offer advice, although your D may not listen.
Good luck to you.
Thanks GB
I am totally frustrated today. I contacted the coparent counselor wee were supposed to see by the court order. My wife has not bothered to contact them at all and they cannot move forward until she contacts them. I have had to let my attorney know. Basically he will contact her lawyer. If there is no action she may have to go to court and face contempt charges. I cannot tell you how I am at a loss on what to do.
Life,
Is your 18 yr old finished with hs? If so, is she in college? How does she sen with the news? The boyfriend's parents may have a fantasy version of becoming grandparents and a romanticized view of this. I did see much of that when I was pregnant with my own kids. The reason I ask is that I saw this entire thing with my niece play out on social media. I figured it out long before she told her parents. The forums people use to air their stuff. I do it here although I'm pretty gosh darn private IRL.
I know it's not really solace, your D did come to you. Clearly your W is still in a difficult place because she said she felt like people are blaming her. This issue is heavily impacting the life of your D and your W needs to try to at least recognize that.
Thanks GB,
My daughter was supposed to start college in spring semester at a college she chose. She would have started already if not for my wifes problems.I do feel his parents want the grandkid as I feel they think my daughter is a good influence on their wayward son. I think they will put a lot of pressure on him and her and I expect the outcome to be a tough road for my daughter. I did have a talk with his mother today. I was blunt with her and told her that I did not have any money nor does my wife. I indirectly told her that they will have to foot all of it since we do not have any. I told her I would be there for my daughter as much as I could, but not financially.
My daughter came to me, but I think it was because his parents forced them and came along. Right now my daughter is running scared. She and boyfriend hid out at my wife's apartment today. I expect they will take the path of least resistance and move in with his folks. I expect that will not be a happy situation in the long run and that my daughter will have to learn this lesson in a very hard way.
Life,
I think your candor with the parents was commendable. I also wanted to clarify that I wasn't insinuating this was your W's fault (I speed type on my phone) . I was trying to say your D being pregnant was the issue at hand and hopefully your W can recognize that.
Your D is in a tough spot. I know I don't have to remind you of that. Love her and remind her that she can talk to you. And she will learn so many things in a short period of time.
My niece is in college now. It did take her almost 3 years to finish a year and a half of hs. She is supported financially and does seem to be on the right track. I don't mean to hijack-just wanted to let you know that a challenging situation can turn into a better sitch.
Hang in there !
What gets me right now is how wife does things that she she let me know about but doesn't. Today I got a call from youngest daughter's counselor. She asks me whats up, what are we concerned about. I am like what? Huh? She says your wife has left several messages that she is concerned about daughter. I told her that I am not sure what wife is concerned about since she does not tell me anything. She then suggested we all get together. So I sent email to wife about it. I also asked that she try and let me know in future so that I will know and I will do the same. How do you get through to them when it comes to the kids? I feel like waving my arms over my head, jumping up and down, and shouting, "hey, Over Here, You know, The other person who made these kids possible." It is amazing how they can act as if you never existed.
Life
How do you get through to them when it comes to the kids?
The quick answer is... YOU don't.
You cannot make your W see, feel, hear anything that she does not want to. Be it mental illness or not.
I have skimmed your threads and noticed that your wife appears to be ill. That has got to be tough.
All I can tell you is to do what is right by your kids. Most will not understand the R between you and your wife. They will not understand how "mom" could do this or not do that.
If you W is not willing to get the help she needs then you will need to get used to having to deal with her as she is today.
It has been several years for me and XW and I still do not have anything resembling a co-parenting R. My hope and prayer for you is that the two of you can get to that point. All you can do right now...is take care of the kids and let her go.
God Bless,
Eric
Thanks Eric,
It must be tough after two years to not have co parenting with your ex. How do you even do it?
Yes my wife is ill. Between her depression and recent suicide attempt I would be hard pressed to frame it in any fashion. Her illness causes many issues that I am not sure she can control. Some of her decisions may end up putting her in contempt of court. I wish I could step in, but know I cannot. I have no choice but to accept this and move on with my life without her. I wish her the best, but will move on and go forward without her. I have hope she will make an effort in the court ordered co parent counseling and that it will help.
So I had a mostly good weekend.
On Friday my youngest forgot something she needed before going to her moms for the weekend. My wife brought her back to get it. I stepped out to say hello and see how my middle daughter is doing. My wife seemed truly unhappy. I presented to her as upbeat. I talked only about the kids. I cannot worry about her being unhappy. She has to live with her decisions.
Saturdays are now becoming my day. With the visitation change I now have Saturdays to myself. I went to a show on the other side of the state and caught up with some people I have not seen in quite a while. I also met some new people. While going there I came upon a huge black bear running down the road. I have never seen one where I have lived for most of my life. This year I have seen two already.
On Sunday my oldest called from college. She was having a bad day and needed someone to talk to. We talked for about an hour. I am thrilled that my relationship with my oldest is getting better all the time. In the past couple weeks we have had some of the longest conversations that I can remember.
My middle daughter is a lot more like my wife than I thought. I have found that she shuts down when things get to tough to handle. Right now she has shut down and won't talk to anyone. Unfortunately she has chosen to hide out at my wifes place so I can't try except to text her that I am here for her.
I spent time with my youngest on Sunday as well. She is 15 now. I take her like I did with my other two out on dirt roads and back roads driving. It is a big confidence builder for her. It is also very important that I treat her as equally as I treated her sisters.
I also started taking steps to form my own business. I will continue to look and be open to getting a job. Even if I get a job I will continue with my own plans. I want to be self supportive and no longer rely on someone else deciding if they want to pay me or not. I have made hundreds of millions of dollars for others. I have multiple patents that I make zero from. Much like trying to save my marriage,I know this will be a marathon. I want to do this for myself now and not for others.
I need help from the Ladies. This may even be a subject that has not been discussed here before.
I have found out that my wife, due to her own issues, did not do a good job handling certain things with our daughters in areas the daughters would be embarrassed having their fathers deal with. I need help in approaching my youngest daughter concerning disposal of feminine products. being that this is a subject most men don't deal with, I am at loss on how to.
Ladies can you help?
LT,
I discuss EVERYTHING with my little peeps and boy do we cover an array of topics. Is your youngest D close to her sisters? I only ask because I wonder if they ever discuss this.
I'm not sure if I'm understanding the exact question but if it is just *disposal* of feminine products. You could say "d, you can wrap the pad in the wrapper or some toilet tissue and place in the garbage can." If it's a tampon, those should be flushable. I apologize is anyone is offended by this-it is what it is.
Is there a more specific question or is that it? Can I make a suggestion? I'm sure this isn't the most relaxing or comfortable conversation to have... However, I think if you approach her from a relaxed manner and discuss disposal with her (just like you would say to throw away you sandwich wrapper)!she will feel as relaxed as a young teen can with her Dad on this topic.
Thanks GB thats about what I was looking for.
So this morning I get email from wife that her attorney has sent the divorce decree to my attorney for me to review. She asked me to look it over as soon as possible as neither of us can afford to keep this going.
My response back was to ask her if she had contacted the co parent counselor we are obligated to by the court agreement we have in place. I told her we could be held in contempt. My attitude right now is that if she cannot honor the present agreement why will she honor any other.
I don't know if this is DBing, but what else can I do.
LT,
It must be tough after two years to not have co parenting with your ex. How do you even do it?
After two years? It’s been longer than that and I do not co parent with my ex. I parallel parent. Big difference. I learned that nothing I say do, do not do, do not say…will really matter. Nothing will change her expect her. It’s called DETACHEMENT.
So you can parent your kids – even when your partner is on another planet. Not easy…but not easy does not mean impossible.
I wish her the best, but will move on and go forward without her.
The best thing you can do for YOU and the kids.
Best of luck in the future self employment endeavors. My best buddy owns his own business and it is tough, especially the first few years.
I need help from the Ladies. This may even be a subject that has not been discussed here before.
LOL…This cracked me up. It brought back some funny memories of the time I had to show my daughter how to shave her pits.  What a great time. LT, you are gonna learn a lot dude. Keep asking.
So this morning I get email from wife that her attorney has sent the divorce decree to my attorney for me to review. She asked me to look it over as soon as possible as neither of us can afford to keep this going.
My response back was to ask her if she had contacted the co parent counselor we are obligated to by the court agreement we have in place. I told her we could be held in contempt. My attitude right now is that if she cannot honor the present agreement why will she honor any other.
Since we live in the same state….I assume you mean the co parenting class that is required by the state PRIOR to the state granting a divorce. If it is, I can tell you that you will not be in “contempt” but your case will be moved to a later date. In CT, both parents have to attend the parenting class, which honestly imo is a joke. I suspect that you are expecting her to adhere to the things taught in the class. Don’t. You will be setting yourself up for disappointment.
Hi Eric,
No it is not the parenting class. She did that. Because of her suicide attempt DCF did an investigation. I was left with either seeking full custody or getting a court agreement in place. Within that court agreement is a stipulation that we will attend co parent counseling. It spells out who with, how often and when it will be considered done. My wife stood in court and said that she read the agreement, was not forced into it, understood it, and agreed to it. Now she won't follow it. My attorney is ready to file a motion of contempt because he knows if it goes to court she will loose and she will also be compelled to pay his fees as well as her attorneys fees.
Life
I have not read your whole sitch so I have a few questions...
Did you try and secure full custody or at least primary residence?
What do you want for the kids?
Do you really feel like your W will be able to co parent?
Hi Eric,
Per the agreement we have shared custody with the kids staying with me for 5 nights and 2 with her. Should the kids call because of a crisis I have the right to go in and get them. She has the right to participate in decisions, but I have final say concerning the kids.
What I want for the kids is to know at the end of the day that I was there for them and that I did not try to destroy their mother. They can draw their own conclusions about their mothers behavior.
I don't know if she will be able to co parent. I think I have to go through this exercise to determine that. Ultimately if the counselor says it is not possible at least I have made the attempt and followed the court order. I have found the easiest way to get done with these state agencies and the court is to work with them and follow their directions.My wife does not seem to understand this and it has and probably will cost her.
Life
Good luck man. Sounds like you have everything under control.
Thats what the little boy thought while sticking his finger into the whole in the dike.
Lol. Good one.
Hey LT,
Just checking in. I hope you are doing well. Sorry your projects have come to a halt. I hope you can find something else to do that keeps your mind busy.
It seems like you are making plans and doing a good job with GAL. That's half the battle IMHO.
Good luck with the girls. I was 19 when I had my s. It can be tough, but when I went back to school, I was really focused. I know I had to take advantage of the opportunity. I would see some college kids coming in hung-over or skip class... I had to get down to business. I am sure she will work it out.
I hope she is able to be true to herself. Make sure you reinforce that. She can't *save* this guy. It is up to her to look out for herself and her baby. He needs to step up.
I remember when I told my mom I was pregnant, she handed me the newspaper and said, look for an apartment. She said, you want to act like a grown-up, you will be one. Some may think it was mean, but it was the best thing she could have done for me.
I still had a bit of a child-like mentality and it opened my eyes and matured me quickly. We struggled for a while. It was tough, but I worked very hard and live a pretty comfortable life now. Nothing extravagant, but way better than when I started out!
Sorry to hijack.... just thought I'd share. Hang in there, LT.
Hi Mighty,
Thanks for offering your insight.I feel much like your mother did. Unfortunately a lot of it is out of my control because of my wife and his parents. I fear she will be carried along for a while and not learn the lessons from this that you learned. I think my biggest concern if she goes forward with this is that he won't grow up and will eventually run. I will probably then have to help my daughter and pick up the pieces. Right now I feel she won't be true to herself and get talked into something she may not want to do. She had accused her sister of doing this in the past. I will have to remind her in the future when she complains about her sister.
To fill in for all the stopped projects I have decided to start my own company. I have acquired the design software I use as an engineer. Once I get it up and running I will translate my paper sketches to finished products that I will prototype and hopefully take out St Louis to show at a trade show and get things rolling.
LT, just getting caught up on your thread. You certainly have a full plate....I don't have advice...just stopping by as a support.
Wishing you the best on your new endeavor, as well. Hopefully, it will keep you occupied and focused away from the craziness.
Thanks for offering your insight.I feel much like your mother did. Unfortunately a lot of it is out of my control because of my wife and his parents. I fear she will be carried along for a while and not learn the lessons from this that you learned. I think my biggest concern if she goes forward with this is that he won't grow up and will eventually run. I will probably then have to help my daughter and pick up the pieces. Right now I feel she won't be true to herself and get talked into something she may not want to do. She had accused her sister of doing this in the past. I will have to remind her in the future when she complains about her sister.
Keep planting seeds, LT. Sometimes, even when you think they aren't listening, they are.
I am worried about the guy sitch though. That puts you in a difficult position. I'm sorry you are dealing with that. Maybe once the baby arrives, she will be more focused on that, that she won't want to deal with nonsense. She may realize she wants stability for her and the baby and someone to help provide for them. It wont be fun for her to be the sole responsible one and carrying him.
Just keep planting seeds. Firmly and lovingly.
To fill in for all the stopped projects I have decided to start my own company. I have acquired the design software I use as an engineer. Once I get it up and running I will translate my paper sketches to finished products that I will prototype and hopefully take out St Louis to show at a trade show and get things rolling.
Now that is awesome. Good for you. And will be great for GAL, too! Double prizes!
So my wife is back in the hospital due to psychologic issues. Still trying to piece together what happened at this point. Unfortunately I am dealing with a very ill spouse who is trying to divorce me.
I don't have any advice, but thought I'd give you some hugs, sounds like you need some!
((((Life's Twists))))
Hi Eric,
No it is not the parenting class. She did that. Because of her suicide attempt DCF did an investigation.
Do you know what their findings were? Did you get a copy of their paperwork? I suggest you do so if you can.
I was left with either seeking full custody or getting a court agreement in place. Within that court agreement is a stipulation that we will attend co parent counseling. It spells out who with, how often and when it will be considered done. My wife stood in court and said that she read the agreement, was not forced into it, understood it, and agreed to it. Now she won't follow it.
As long as you get the kids as much as you/they want, why does it matter? I'm not saying it isn't important, I am just asking what it "costs" you to ignore it, if anything?
Also, why do you say she won't follow it (did she say she won't?)
AND what do You think her reasons for that, are?
My attorney is ready to file a motion of contempt because he knows if it goes to court she will loose and she will also be compelled to pay his fees as well as her attorneys fees.
As a L, I'd be loathe to go after a "judgement proof" woman in court. That's b/c she is someone who doesn't have money. I can get all the judgements I want, but if she has no money, what am I getting paid with? A repos car? Used furniture? Her 401k would be hard to get to quickly...so would it be The mortgage? (But then that affects YOU...)
and if your lawyer is ready to file for contempt it MIGHT be b/c it's easy to prove contempt and thus, "win". The question is, what are YOU gaining by any of that?
"Winning" in these scenarios is pretty much an illusion. (Sort of like winning in a divorce case, actually.)
Also, I missed HOW your wife tried to take her life. Did she write a note?
Did she make a gesture or do the full on attempt?
And regardless, what does SHE SAY about it, now?
How are your daughters doing? Oh, and regarding the issue of you dating, given that you have the girls as often as you do, and you are still married and involved in your wife's life AND your girls are with you so much, I'd strongly advise against it. For many reasons but mostly at this time, for your daughter's sake.
It just strikes me as inappropriate, Immature and probably selfish at this time,
to have a man with an ill wife and 3 daughters living with or near him, to decide he "must date NOW". Not that YOU are saying that, but in general.
You do Not have to agree, and I know it gets lonely, but do you at least see where I"m coming from?
Your daughters need you more now than ever. Don't choose OW over them, just when their mom is checking out.
Kids need a "rock" in their lives and they always know a rock when they see one.
I think it's your job to be their rock for now and the near future.
Despite everything going on, you DO still need to GAL anyhow. For your sanity - and for your daughters to see and KNOW that they are in charge of their lives.
No one else can "make them" miserable (or happy for that matter). WE are all in charge of our lives and our happiness.
Model that for them, by showing how content you are inwardly and as a dad and friend, and that you do not NEED your wife (or any other woman) to "make you happy" or to complete you.
Show your girls That they ARE "enough" for you to be happy with now (plus that will soothe their bruised egos and hearts too.)
Good luck
Hi 25,
I think I am in tune with everything you have said. I don't think the contempt will do anything except to make money for the lawyers. I have not allowed my lawyer to go forward with it.
My wifes first attempt was in April. She left no note and took a large quantity of pills and booze. As explained to me it was a very serious attempt and yes she truely wanted to die.
I am not sure where you got the idea I am dating. Right now I am not even looking given all the other issues going on I do feel it would not be appropriate at this time. My daughters need me and I do need to be the rock for them. I am doing GAL things that do not require a wife or partner. I am showing them that I am concerned, but will move forward with my life. I am trying to set an example for them and not falling apart given all that is piling on me.
LT, thinking of you. I'm sorry your plate became "fuller" with the recent hospital situation. Sending hugs and prayers.
(((((LT))))))
LT,
Sending positive thoughts your way.
LT,
Just stopped by to see how you are doing. Sending prayers your way.
Thanks everyone for your good thoughts and prayers.
I have been a bit numb to everything these last few days. My daughter with the unexpected pregnancy has been suffering severe morning sickness as well as a virus. She finally made up her mind that this was not the best time to bring a child into this world. We just got back from having the pregnancy terminated. She came through well and they dehydrated her afterwards and she is starting to feel much. Everyone here right now has this virus as well as daughter at college. I go and pick her up Wednesday evening and bring her home to recuperate.
We don't really know where my wife is right now. We think she may be in a hospital nearby. If they did not have a bed in the psychiatric ward for her then she could be elsewhere. We have heard nothing from her family either. My daughters want to go look for her location later this week when they are feeling better. I am hoping she is in a place where she can get the help she needs. Beyond that I cannot put a lot of worry into her situation as I have my hands full.
((((hugs))))
Just keep the focus on your and your D right now.
My heart goes out to you.
LT, hugs and prayers to you and your family.
I'm sure it was a tough decision for your D. We have all had experiences that have put us in difficult situations. I can't imagine what this must feel like for you and for her, on top of everything else going on.
I hope you are also able to lean on others for support. I think of you and your sitch often. You are such a strong, loving, wonderful man and father.
((((((LT)))))))