Guess its time for a new thread.
So... my DD was in a car accident last night, while coming to pick me up at work. She got rear ended & was pushed & swerved into oncoming traffic. Her responses were quick & avoided a head on collision. She banged her head & was deeply cut open (no stitches, they use glue). Otherwise she is OK and a little sore today. Car is a write off.
^^^^ THIS is a blessing!! I am EXTREMELY GREATFUL that she responded quickly to the oncoming vehicle. HE even came out to congratulate her on her quick response. This could have been a different kind of accident. THAT scares me!! As this happened in front of our work, Xbf and I were both there at the time. I am grateful for that too. He did the dad thing (took care of cops/car) and I did the mom thing with my D. We declined the drama of the ambulance ride & he drove us to the hospital. He then took us into town to grab take out before driving us back to my parents place. He texted her later in the evening to check up on her.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am hanging on to being BLESSED!! I am ever so grateful!!
I am working so hard to understanding how to let go... by trying sooo hard to keep my thoughts on my daughter/self & focus on my values. Reverting my thoughts off him & back to myself. ITs ALOT of concentrated energy. I never realized how hyper-focused I really am (even though you all told me)... until these last few days of effort.
When does the pain stop?
I find myself wanting to behave like a martyr and want to indulge in the pain...not sure why. Its not like its going to get me closer to my goal. Its damaging, actually.
Why do I insist I want to be with a person who is not good enough for me?
Why do I insist I want to be with a person who is not good enough for me?
I guess that's what we've all been trying to figure out for 30 threads now, huh.
I'm glad your daughter's okay, MM. "Angels watching over me . . . "
Starsky
Magic,
I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter's accident, but I'm glad she's okay. She's going to get pretty sore in the next day or so, if she hasn't already. How is her neck? Any whiplash? She's going to need to take it easy for a few days and I know you'll watch over her.
How goes the business settlement?
Are things moving in the right direction?
I'm beginning to think it never goes away completely, but it does get better or bearable.
I've been at this three and a half years and I still hurt.
Tad
"When does the pain stop"
When you have had enough.
I'm 4-5 yrs into this. The pain is no more. Not that i don't remember things but the pain is gone. I can live my life on my terms.
I say this not for you to feel bad but to understand there is a way through. There is a new life waiting for you. Slight changes in the way you view things can go along way in changing your perception.
Other people on this board have shown you the map, now its your job(You actually owe this to yourself) to walk it.
Mirage
HI.... weekend was good. Hung out with friends all weekend & spent time on Sunday with DD. She's feeling sore around her neck, black & blue eye now.
I've been thinking that I need to create more space between Xbf & I. One thing that comes to mind is how he keeps our 4-6 work/coffee time. I have been thinking that I can switch it to 3-5 for me, and he can do 4-6. Or eventually try to state that I will work it and he can go do something else. We both don't NEED to be there... just "waiting" for a client. I have come to realize that I use it as an excuse to be with him. (just like he does)...its not good enough & it keeps me "there"... wanting/waiting. SO... NO MORE!
I have a concert again tonight... not sure how to approach it, again as I will need to leave at 5. GRR
Yesterday, Xbf made a "OMG" comment (he saw some pretty girl walking) we were on the phone discussing vehicles he just went to view. I asked him to describe what he saw & he said, "no, just enjoying the city scenery"... I stated NO, not the pretty girl but the vehicles he saw. .... Inside our R, it was OK to make these comments... NOW, they bug me & not sure why he does it (not thinking??) & how I should handle it. At this point I said, I was going to head in early to work today as I would be leaving early for a concert.
Later that afternoon, while working (just before I was ready to leave for concerrt). Same time as Thursday, when I tried to go to last concert.... he gets a call from his mom that she hurt herself & needs to go to hospital. He doesn't give me much info, but states he must leave & rushes to go... something about her ankle. He was kind of angry. This was at 4:30. Normally, I would have texted or called impatiently to enquire. This time I waited... nothing, no notices, no explanation what happened to her. Normally (within our relationship), I would have gone with him to the hospital & kind of steered the whole event.
At 6:30 I texted: On my way to concert. Keep me updated?
He texted back: Waiting for X-ray..she is on inter venous and will be put under. dislocated ankle and maybe broken bones as well are possible.
I texted back: Wow. Keep me posted please
Him: Yup
at 9:00: (still nothing from him)... Any updates yet?
(no reply).
Meanwhile, he had just been texting with my DD asking to borrow my moms crutches, then never mind they will buy some.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am hurt/confused!!! why wouldn't he keep me informed? I will contact her myself today...but not sure how to respond/react towards him today. Why wouldn't he keep me in the loop? Can anyone explain why he wouldn't want to tell me?
Ok... how would you have handled it then GM? This is a guy who I see and speak with several times a day. This is a new level for us. Not sure why he would do that....
~~~~~~~~~
I called his mom & left a message about 10 mins ago.
How do I get back on track of dropping the rope & detaching?
You seem much more concerned about why he isn't keeping you, his ex, updated, rather than showing any true concern for his mother.
You turned a situation of his elderly mother injuring herself about you.
And about a person you supposedly dropped the rope and detached yourself from
Starsky
ok... he just called (work related). After a few moments I enquired about his mom's injury & got more details of the fall, the dislocation & how long they were at the hospital. I told him that I had left a message for his mom on her vm. and to let me know how I can help (as he feels she will be taking up a lot of his time, not being able to function fully). She has a specialist appt today & will be requiring surgery.
GM... when you say to not take it personally (I DID).... but don't understand how not to take it that way. How do you mean its not about me? (I know its not) ... trying to understand how you mean.
Personal vs. Business..... how does keeping it "business" sound & look? If he was my business partner only... I would ask "at work" how his mom was and leave it at that... but, how can I really do that (she was my MIL for 20 years... I care). Am I not expected to bring over a meal or something?
I am hurt/confused!!! why wouldn't he keep me informed? .... Why wouldn't he keep me in the loop? Can anyone explain why he wouldn't want to tell me?
never in your description did you mention that you txtd him to say sorry that his mother was hurt, or that you hope she's well, it was only about keeping YOU posted.
I said all that to her, in her vm...
"I said all that to her, in her vm..."
yes, but you didnt say that to HIM. Thats what i pointed out. YOU wanted him to provide YOU with information. but you never acknowledged HER. She's the one who got hurt. She's in the hospital. but YOU want information. and YOU got your feelings hurt when he didnt do what YOU wanted.
Hi MM,
I understand that you are surprised by his not keeping you informed as the last 20 years you would have been a big part of all this. You're NOT anymore. That is part of what comes with no longer being together. If you still want to have a relationship with exMIL (I still have one with mine) that's great. But it's not through him now. You can keep in touch with her all on your own. These are the changes that come with the new reality. You didn't choose to end things, he made that choice for you. It's going to be up to you now to keep in touch with any of the people from your old life that you still want in your new. I take it she is your D's grandmother? Then you will be seeing her and a part of her life BF still there or not.
This is just the start of the changes you are going to find come with this new life. Try and think about the other people and how they feel as well. I'm sure your BF's mom is upset that you aren't together anymore. D and break up's affect everyone in our lives. My W's family is very upset about what my W is doing. They hurt as well.
These are the things that the MLCers in our lives are going to need to deal with all on their own. They will see just how much it [censored] when you don't have that other person in their lives that was always there for them in the past. Part of both their journey AND ours!
Stay on course, MM.
Tx everyone.
Matt is correct. ...Due to the fact of 20 years I did not know how to respond it react in this case. My dd feels that he was playing a game. Not that I am not concerned about her. If course I am. This is the age of instant texting. Waiting in the hospital for hours, I am certain there was a moment to update me. I think he was pissed yet again that he was being responsible while I was out having fun. Not replying to me was likely punishment (same behaviour he always has). This is yet another occurance that I had fun and he did not. While speaking with him today he indicated that his mom will require more of his attention and he will require me to sell more product. If I had applied my old behaviour, I would have been pissy and asked why he didn't text me last night. His bs reply would have been that he didn't want to disturb my concert. (Have heard this before, it means he's pusses I'm having fun). He does not take the time to have fun, feels an imbalance of partnership. Gets angry that he doesn't have a life. Then I feel guilty and try to compensate/fix/pretzel and accommodate.
Matt is correct, I was searching what my position is now when it comes to family. Yes. I can have my own r with his mom on our terms. We are just starting to work on that. My confusion was him and his expectation vs mine. I did not fully respond the way he wanted with 100 questions. So when he called today, we discussed work and then I enquired. Then got the whole story.
Just now he seems a little more interested on behaving in a personal way by texting and calling from the hospital (appt with specialist) and asking if I could maybe pick her up while he pick up another vehicle for client at 5 pm.
Please show me where/how to be business mm vs personal here. Thanks!!!
Yes, its mind reading because I know his past/current same behaviours... not revolving around me. I can see why you state that, but he is selfish & is not all into his "mom's condition" like you see. Yes, he cares & is concerned but there is another element to this & my daughter pointed it out to me. So posted it here for you all to comment & for me to figure it out once written down.
Please understand that I am just trying to understand. I am just writing down my expectations vs. his.... and playing out the outcome on paper.
I was and am genuinely concerned about his mom... and will direct my concerns to her.
Going back to an earlier post here, but these statements seem to continue showing up after you dropped the rope.
I have a concert again tonight... not sure how to approach it, again as I will need to leave at 5. GRR
Why be concerned about it? Why make it a big dramatic deal? You've had several people draw a picture of what that would look like, so why why are you saying you're not sure?
The next news was about the OMG statement from xbf over a pretty girl, where you admit it bothers you. And again, you analyze and wonder how to handle it.
NOW, they bug me & not sure why he does it (not thinking??) & how I should handle it.
Magic, do you really read what people give you?
I have to wonder if the pretty girl incident (b/c it bugged you how he acted)was the foundation for being hurt that he didn't keep you more in the loop about his mother.
I am hurt/confused!!! why wouldn't he keep me informed? but not sure how to respond/react towards him today. Why wouldn't he keep me in the loop? Can anyone explain why he wouldn't want to tell me?
Do you really have to ask why? My question to you is why
should he? You want to break off the emotional & personal ties with him, and yet you are hurt and confused he wasn't giving you "more" information than the update he had already given. And he did give you an update!
You are not his W and this was not your MIL. He didn't
have to tell you anything. When R's cease to exist it changes the entire dynamics within the family structure. Whether it's a death or divorce, nothing will ever be quite the same again.
I am not saying you can no longer love his mother or show concern for her health issues. But don't depend upon him as a life-line to her. Don't go through him to reach out to her, if you really love her that much. Don't use either one, and don't try to make brownie points with either of them.
Do not allow yourself to fall right back into your old thought patterns about
him. If you will be honest, you know you
used this unfortunate occasion as your excuse to contact.....and keep contacting him. His mother was the bait you put on your hook. He didn't bite the second time....and now you are in a tizzy. (But I'm glad you didn't cancel the concert to sit by his side.
)
Take it from a gal that has spent many, many hours in hospitals
waiting.....sometimes there's simply nothing to update! Maybe he told you as much as he knew. Maybe he had his hands full. Maybe he's a jerk, IDK. But he didn't
owe you anything b/c you are no more than a business partner, remember. Those are cold, hard facts that you would like to be able to dish out to
him...but you can't handle the same in return.
You have already had two things to happen that could test your resolve to not pick that rope up again. One was with your D's accident. BTW, I thought you handled that pretty well. I was really hoping you wouldn't use it as a crutch. You seemed to have gotten through that experience without making it (or his actions)into more than it was.
Now, the second thing has happened in a few days. The first was your family member, the second was his family member. Get through this with the same inner strength, grace and poise you would see the Queen of England showing. Afterwards, you should be able to deal better with the smaller situations b/c you passed through the tougher ones. Right?
Thanks sandi.
This is sure a test on me. I am being honest in my feelings.
I guess as a person who is letting him go. I cannot concern myself of how things make him feel (angry). I did what I felt was my duty. He didn't accept or want to indulge. I am sure that I will do lots of things that will piss him off now and I guess I can't care about that.
Magic,
The dynamics are changing in your situation and let's face it...you don't like it. Your XSO had more than enough on his mind at the time w/his mother. I don't know how old she is, but I'm going to guess in her 70's. Bones are fragile and it does take a lot of time for admittance, seeing a doctor, waiting on x-rays and seeing the doctor once again. The call he made to your D about crutches was done w/o thinking.
I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS MAN WAS PLAYING A GAME WITH YOU! Why? Because this time he had more than enough on his plate w/his mother and what she had done to her ankle. There are times to play games and this wasn't one of them.
As for the woman he was gazing at earlier...well, that's another story and a lot of men and women, both, admire the opposite sex at times when they are walking down the street. It's nothing to get your panties in a wad and don't deny it...it bugged the heck out of you.
As Matt pointed out, your situation has changed quite a bit in the last year. You are no longer living under the same roof w/your XSO or his mother and now whatever interaction you have w/her should be between the two of you and leave him out of the mix. If you had a good relationship w/her before all of the drama began, then I think it would be a very nice gesture to go visit her in the hospital and take her some magazines, a nice book or even a nice vase of flowers... but do not talk about your relationship w/her son. This interaction should be about the two of you, but mostly importantly, how she's going to get along once she's home, etc. Maybe you could offer to sit w/her or help her out a bit. Of course, it's your choice as to what you would like to do for her...but the clock is ticking and can always call her at the hospital if she's still there or you can sit there and stew about how hurt your feelings are...the choice is yours. I say put on your big girl panties and check on her yourself. Do not rely on him to tell you anything about her situation.
As for this paragraph: "I cannot concern myself of how things make him feel (angry). I did what I felt was my duty. He didn't accept or want to indulge. I am sure that I will do lots of things that will piss him off now and I guess I can't care about that." Tsk, tsk, tsk. Your posting sounded like a selfish spoiled little girl who didn't get the attention that you needed form your XSO while he was dealing w/a crisis w/his mother. You are angry and stomping your feet because he didn't jump through hoops to call you periodically w/an update. Guess what? There may not have any updates until late in the evening. Why call you and tell you that? I have to agree w/Gabby, the world doesn't revolve around you.
Also, now that the crisis is under control, he's been providing you w/more info about his mother. Why? Because things have calmed down. It's not a game when it comes to someone being taken to the hospital and people do have more on their minds when they are there comforting their loved ones.
Whatever you do, think about this...you can call or visit your XSO's mother to inquire as to how she is doing or offer to do something for her or you can sit there and sing the song of "me, me, me". It's your choice.
Hi job.
Tx four your input. She was released last night.
I'm confused. I thought my last stmt was one of a healthier one because I was saying it from a place of accepting and letting go. Accepting that the dynamics are different and I just didn't know the new rules. Stating that I did my best to enquire about her with concern. He allowed me in when it suited him and I didn't respond like the spoiled brat begging for more details, calling and persisting (like i would have done normally) . I left it alone. He didn't like that. And therefore he behaved the way that usually makes me get back in line. Although, I haven't reacted it responded like I normally do. Now, this could purely be mind reading. One will never know. Either way, the way I conducted myself is better than what he would normally get from me. He will now begin to realize that I cannot respond like a wifey or mm in the areas of sex or taking care if mom. Apparently I have been demoted to business partner only and should act as such.
After hearing more of the story today, I know there were Times last night to inform me that he could have texted even if to say "busy, details tomorrow". Something/anything. Last week when my dd was in accident I made the effort to respond to all who enquired.
Please do not view it as me stomping my feet because if I were, I would have reacted and responded with anger/hurt towards him asking why he didn't keep me informed last night.
Please do not view it as me stomping my feet . . .
I'm not going to speak for Job, but MM I've noticed you do this a lot:
Where do you get off telling other people how to view things? All you can do is post here, and others are free to view your situation as they see fit (provided we're courteous and such, which Job always is, I'm sure you would agree).
It's dismissive when you do this, and maybe you don't even realize it. But I think it folds into this whole "me, me, me" package that is front-burner right now for you.
fwiw.
Starsky
Magic,
People react to a medical crisis differently. You, responded to all who inquired...he didn't, so you shouldn't expect him to be like you. Some people don't think about it until later and evidently he's one of those that doesn't like to give minute by minute updates. Whatever the reason, it's water under the bridge now and life must go on.
Game playing? I don't see it and this shouldn't have entered your mind at all. This was a real emergency and you have to take people's reactions in situations such as this w/a grain of salt.
Let's hope that your friend will be okay and recover nicely in short order. I do hope that you'll either call or visit w/her in the coming days.
Now, I'm going to sit quietly because I have nothing left to say about the situation. It's now water under the bridge and doesn't require any more "beating the horse to death" conversations about it.
Wow. I'm sorry. That is not my intention at all!!!
Sorry.
Wow. I'm sorry. That is not my intention at all!!!
Sorry.
I believe you. And it's not me, it was Job to whom you seemed dismissive -- to me, anyway. Then again maybe it was just me.
Again, I wouldn't have pointed it out if it didn't tie into the whole topic at hand right now, and that is how you come across. I'm sure you would agree with me that we can ALL have the best of intentions in our hearts, but we are judged by others -- fairly, I think -- mostly by how we come across to them.
Starsky
Tx again.
Gabby. That's my point. Is that I vented here and not to him. Rhis is what we are told to do in this forum. This is new. I did not allow him to see this.
Just like me, we both need to learn the new rules. I feel I passed the test by not being what he would expect from me. Now I need to work on things in here,
Like sandi stated. These were 2 bigger tests for me to learn from so that I can handle the smaller stuff.... Right?
Stop making it all about YOU. – The most successful people in the most successful relationships are looking for ways to help others. The most unsuccessful people are still asking, “What’s in it for me?”
Gabby, I am sure its to be expected from most who post on here. Not knowing how to respond in this kind of situation after so many years. The attachment for the extended family members are still there. Navigating through the FIRST occurrence, much like the FIRST holidays are challenging.
Yes, I expected to be reported too. I posted in here because I was venting. I worked hard on processing through it. You guys could see that I was struggling. I did not want to disregard & dismiss my true feelings.
I see how I was behaving poorly in HERE. However, I am kind of proud of how I reacted OUT THERE (Him). I know I still have work to do, but this is still keeping in line with exercising my power & not giving it away. Like I said, normally I would have asked 100 questions & persisted to be kept in the loop. I did not. I took the time/space to not act on my "feelings".
Yes, I did on this site because I was posting my honest feelings. I am very bothered. It hurts that he did not feel obligated to me to keep me informed. Its just another level of him letting go & that sux. I hate the feeling & watching him step away inch by inch (the slow version). My ex-h was fast... DONE immediately & never looked back.
Up & coming issue: Do I take MIL some food? (Honest answers below)
1) Yes, of course.... its the right thing to do
2) No, you are trying to impress him
If I choose #1, then I have fears of behaving like "I SHOULD", like he would "expect" me to behave, as a good little wifey & still under his command. (pat good doggy on the head). MM is still "there" for him!
If I choose #2, its possible that I am also doing so because I want to remain in his good books.
As a person who is letting go, It shouldn't matter what "HE" thinks & whether he is right or wrong (as in #1). I fear that he would think I am just trying to do right in his eyes. As a person who is dropping the rope, I shouldn't be concerned about what he thinks and do what I want!!!
I am still trying to decide which of the 2 options is my real truth. Although I automatically wanted to make some food when I first realized she wouldn't be able to walk much. I know its a nice guesture & I am a person who does good things.
If I do bring food, I will bring it directly to her & not comment to him about it.
Before you take food over, call her first and see what she needs. She may suggest something from carryout or nothing at all. But, you shouldn't worry about him at all, but your concern should be focused on the mother.
MM,
I'm going to say this as gently as possible as I know you are still hurting. Stop thinking about how whatever you do ties into him. If your XSO were dead and gone and his mother had the same thing happen, would you make her some food and take it to her? If the answer is yes, then do it! Don't do it to impress him or her. Don't tell him you are doing it. Don't NOT do it because of what he MAY think. Learn to be YOURSELF, not part of him or a couple but who you are.
Yesterday was day 2 of my W no longer living with me. My MIL often makes extra food as she enjoys cooking and lives alone. She will call me or my W and tell us it was there and feel free to pick it up. Last night I got a call from her. She knows her D is no longer living with me but that I have our D14 with me. She let me know that she made some food and asked if I would like to pick it up today on my way home. Of course I was grateful and told her yes and thanks for thinking of us. I'm not thinking about what my W thinks about this as it isn't her concern. My MIL has been a part of my life for 25 years and I love her and she loves me. She is feeling a big loss right now as she has to see her grandkids and me go through the pain she went through when her H left her. I'm not thinking about what my W might think of this or not. It's between my MIL and me. Last weekend when my W was away visiting her father, my MIL called me to ask for my help as her mothers bed at the home she is living at broke and she couldn't fix it herself. Of course I went and helped her and her GM. Not once thinking of how my W may react or not. I did it because I care about these people and they are a part of MY life, whether my W and I are together or not.
You need to start being MM, just MM. Be the person who YOU want to be. Don't automatically think about how what you are doing will make him feel or how he will react. It will take an effort at first as you are used to thinking of yourself as part of a unit but you MUST start doing this if you want to get past the hurt and become the woman you are meant to be!
Matt, that was a wise and beautiful post.
Starsky
^^^^^^^^^^
Yes! Nice words, Matt:)
Yes... tx Matt!!
"You need to start being MM, just MM. Be the person who YOU want to be. Don't automatically think about how what you are doing will make him feel or how he will react. It will take an effort at first as you are used to thinking of yourself as part of a unit but you MUST start doing this if you want to get past the hurt and become the woman you are meant to be!"
Ok, so today I called and spoke with MIL for a long time. Later in the evening a friend told me of a program that could come help cook, clean, bathe, etc. I asked my friends opinion of when I should tell him about this & she said to not overthink it (treat it like I would a neighbour with helpful information) & I called him on my way home. (trying to not automatically think of what he would think/feel/react of my call).
I called, no answer. He called back, shortly. He was not too receptive of my call. Did not like the idea and told me how his aunt will come help out & he will hire the female friend (does outside & household work for us/his mom) if needed, she is the one that has that investment house for sale he wants me to consider. He wanted off the phone as he said he was trying to still get a lot of things done, so I didn't press on (like I normally would have... dog with a bone 180)
1) Trying not to take it personally that he isn't asking for or requiring my help
2) I did my best, offering what I knew & thought could be of help
3) Not assuming that he doesn't want me involved, prefers I keep focused on the business
This is tough stuff... trying to get past the hurt and BE the woman I want to be.
Magic,
I'm glad you spoke to your XSO's friend. At least she knows that you care and feels comfortable in talking w/you for a bit. It was nice of you to offer a suggestion to your XSO about the program that would help out w/his mother. What he does w/the info is on him and now you need to let it go.
We have pointed this out to you, Matt especially, in the last few days, that you are no longer a part of that family unit. You are a business partner and possibly looked upon as a friend. Your XSO is handling things his way w/his mother and unfortunately doesn't sound too receptive to advice or suggestions. Try not to take it personally.
Magic, you have to put the "family unit" out of your mind. You are separated from this family, have lived on your own for almost a year and now it's evident more so, that your XSO does not want you involved in his family unit at this time. I'm sorry, to be blunt, but you've got to see the handwriting on the wall...he only sees you as someone who works in the business.
You've got to let it go and treat him as someone you do business with, such as the mailman or a grocery store clerk for now. You are still "expecting" him to react a certain way and when he doesn't, you become disappointed and hurt. If he needs your help or advice, he'll come to you. For now, leave things be w/him. If you want to continue to stay in contact w/his mother, by all means do so...but w/no expectations of getting a reaction out of him.
Magic,
Wisdom from Job (as usual). Magic, one thing you need to remember is that detaching and DBing doesn't mean you can't be kind or thoughtful. However , you must not attach any expectation/hopes/dreams to those actions.
Please for your sanity and the fact that we go around 1 time on this planet (at least in this format), stop wondering what xbf thinks of what you say and do. You will literally give yourself a headache. He will think what he thinks.
You have a wonderful daughter and it sounds like you have many friends. Enjoy time with them. You don't have to answer this but right now, what is so great about xbf? Not what was-right now. Think about that.
one small edit Job:
"...handling things his way w/his mother and <snip> doesn't sound too receptive..."
I removed "unfortunately"
from everyone else's perspective it should be neutral. neither unfortunate or fortunate. its his decision as a 50 year old man taking care of his own mother. its good practice to not label it either way, as this removes the urge to try to control him and change his mind.
Ken,
I agree w/you on removing the "unfortunately".
Good morning...
As mentioned, I did #1, #2, & #3 from my earlier post. After I offered my information, I left it alone.
I am not 100% certain that he wants me removed from his family, as he did invite me to that upcoming family function & is keeping me quite informed of his very personal/private real estate transaction. Information/details that I believe he would only tell me & his close family members. There is still trust. Calling me to bounce ideas off me & to inform me.
As for his mom, I feel he is doing what he thinks is best for his mom and our situation. Having his aunt come (moms sister) to care for her, and not removing me from my job... as we need to sell sell sell so that he can buy the location & or we need to move our location & quick! (there is a time limit). If we do not buy this property, we will be scrambling last minute to find a storage property for our inventory (expensive). Therefore, he wants my efforts to remain with the business. He feels his aunt will be sufficient for the job of his mom. <<<<< This is what I believe. No feelings attached coming from his well thought out logistics.
As pointed out earlier.. he is 100% focused on this real estate transaction & not much more room for anything else, especially a R with me or anyone. Add in the now added stress of home care for his mom. <<<< this is the very thing he was soooo worried would happen. That he would be a 50+ year old man living/caring for his aging mom. He was so desperate to get out of that house & enjoy a life before having to care for her.
As you ALL say... DB'ing & detaching doesn't mean I can't be kind or thoughtful. I just have to not attach expectations to those actions. I have been looking online for ways to "let go without expectations".... one of the common comments are to live in the moment & to go more with the flow, etc. <<< I am working on this. And again, realizing my full value. <<<<< I seem to let this slide to accommodate the situation (NOT GOOD)
odd/interesting.. just mentioning:
went to old house to pick up keys, he was at hospital for surgery & told me to go there. I saw our BBQ sitting outside. This is normal for most of you...but not us. I was the BBQ'er. Last summer the BBQ stayed inside the garage all summer. Its too much bother for him to BBQ.
The day that we discussed exclusive dating & hanging out... it was mentioned by him about casually wanting me to be hanging out by the poolside this summer... I then offered that if he got some propane, that I would make a meal (as he hasn't eaten a decent meal in a while)... He wasn't too sure about the idea, as it meant dragging it out & cleaning it up. I didnt insist, He said he would let me know...THAT WAS THEN, 2-3 weeks ago convo. Never mentioning or thinking of it again.
I just find it odd that its outside now.
I will try not to read anything into it.
I will try not to read anything into it.
D'OH!! TOO LATE!!!
Hey Starsky... ok... then I will let it go!!! POOF!
yesterday... he was a little teary & upset/concerned & talked to me about his concerns about being an only child & having to "care" for elderly parents. I just sat & listened. I did NOT say what I wanted & would have normally said "yes, this is what I thought we would be doing together, caring for our parents when needed or the time came"... I just listened. I can tell he is fearful that now he is 50 & taking care of his mom, this is what he wanted to avoid & will now be doing it "alone". >>>> DOESNT HE REALIZE I WANT TO BE PART OF HIS LIFE & WOULD HELP??
He left work early to go pick up his mom after surgery at the hospital, but ended up sitting there till 9:30 (as she had pain issues, they decided to keep her overnight)... he was texting my DD at the time & not once did he mention he was still at the hospital or that his mom was being kept overnight. <<<< Yes, it bugs me that he didn't tell me or her.
When he told me this morning... I didn't persist to ask WHY.
My mom says this is a "good thing" and that I didn't ask why too... I just don't see fully how & she is not good at explaining it.... any ideas?
DOESNT HE REALIZE I WANT TO BE PART OF HIS LIFE & WOULD HELP??
>>>>>DONT YOU REALIZE HE DOESNT WANT YOU TO BE PART OF HIS LIFE AND HELP??
Magic,
Oh my. I just don't understand why you want to stay stuck. Actually, it's like you have super glued yourself to a stool and put it in quicksand. Why? Why?
My husband told me and our 3 kids he was going to work out of town for the next 2 weeks (I didn't buy it) . His girlfriend announced. their vacation started today. Question for you....,why did h do that? I know why. If my. 9 yr old D knew, she would know why h lied also. Why? Drum roll......it's his choice !
I hate to sound harsh. Why are you so desperate to buy what xbf sells? Even if it is a crumb? I'm sorry. I just struggle to see why you don't want more for yourself.
I hate to sound harsh. Why are you so desperate to buy what xbf sells? Even if it is a crumb?
More
COOKIES. 
MM, when are you going to start valuing yourself? You are worth so much more than the crumbs of a cookie, but we've all said that to death. So from now on, I'm just going to post to you "COOKIES" to remind you when you are settling for crumbs.
Starsky
hold on folks... I didn't buy it or take the crumbs. I held off on my usual comment/s!! I bit my tongue. I also just listened.. I didn't ask him questions (unlike me)
Please show me where I am taking a crumb?
Magic,
The fact that you are asking why about everything xbf does or doesn't do speaks volumes. Again, why didn't he mention he was at the hospital? Why? Because he didn't want to. And you are asking why the grill was out? Who cares?
I'll be blunt. If xbf wants you to know something, he will tell you. If he doesn't, he won't. End of story. Really. There are no ulterior motives or veiled meanings.
Again, he knows where you are.
exactly G'belle... BUT ... I have NOT taken the crumbs ... I am only venting on here.
Since the day he stated he mainly wanted a sexual R with me... I have dropped the rope. My actions match my words from that day forward. However, in HERE... I have posted what I have struggled with.
It is getting somewhat easier to let go & to really let him be "ON HIS OWN" .. not allowing him to have MM whenever he wants/expects on his terms. If we are not talking about business, daughter, mother condition....there is NO talk. However, I did "listen" to him express his concern about being an only child & parental care.
How am I accepting a crumb?
You may not be persisting in your words with him, but in your own head you are still stick and heavily attached. Just because you haven't verbalized it to HIM, doesn't make you detached. You are still reading into things like grills, and cookies, and wondering why this and why that.
Inside of you, everything in your life is still hinged on him and the fantasy of what you believe your future with him should be.
You still eat, sleep, and breathe this man.
I could not for the life of me figure out why my ex would give up a like with his infant daughter and his wife . Why he didn't want to see her grow up full time, have family holidays, vacations, birthdays. I beat myself over the head trying to figure out why he would give up his life with us.
Then, with much urging I stopped. I just stopped. I accepted that he did not want his future up include me or his daughter full time. He just didn't.
So you need to accept your exbf does not see his future including you in the way you want it to.
Let that fantasy go in your heart and mind, then you won't wonder why he says what he says or does what he does. You need to see your future without him, and I don't think you have seriously sat down to figure out what that looks like
^^^^. Gabby said it much better than I was about to.
Outward actions begin as inward thoughts, MM. Until you change your inward mindset, you will continue to project "needy/clingy/smothering" to your xBF.
You have NOT dropped the rope. Not by a long shot.
Starsky
Well... I can hear what you are all saying, however my outward actions have been happening because of what I am feeling inside too.
Still unsure where you feel I am accepting his crumbs? I didn't see him toss out any cookies either.
Inside I feel "I am worthy of more" & I am not "his" to have at his disposal. I dread being around him & look for ways to be out of his space. However, I still love him (not sure why anymore).
I don't believe I project "clingy/needy/smothering", especially in the last 3 weeks (and more so this week).
For example last night: He brought coffees, normally I follow him inside (as he opens up) and we sit across the desk from each other and he pulls out his cookies to share. Last night (and a few other times over the past 3 weeks), I decided to take my coffee & sit outside with my lap top & work. He sat inside, by himself. Also, at closing time, we were discussing foreclosure & how he may have to contact that female agent for her opinion (normally I would react jealous or enquire about her part - I DON"T anymore). We then got interrupted by a phone call on his phone (normally I would have waited & waited until he was done as to finish OUR convo), this time I waved bye and left. It was kind of rude how he dismissed our conversation to take a phone call.
Also, he goes out of his way pretty much daily to pick up coffee in town & buy's special cookies too. He does not live anywhere near the coffee shop. He does this to maintain "time" with me.
If he doesn't "want" me... all of me, I will not "give" him me.... anymore.
I understand from DB, that I have to fake it till I make it.... and that is what I am doing.
I do understand that I have inward work to still do. I know that letting go & behaving as such goes against my feelings for 20 years... I am naturally fighting against myself... I am working on this, with each thought that pops in my head. I am pretty sure I have begun dropping the rope. I understand that I have to accept that he doesn't want to be with me, however its hard to believe when his words have said otherwise. Yes, I know they are words. But, his confusion & how much it upsets him is what I see/know. I am still going to base it on he doesn't want me for now, therefore he doesn't get the "fun, loving, interesting, available, sexual MM" anymore! I am withdrawing because he is not behaving like a person who is deserving of ME.
Still unsure where you feel I am accepting his crumbs? I didn't see him toss out any cookies either.
I remember shortly after I first started posting to you, I quoted a statement you had made....and then I simply asked you why. You had made references about fearing you would rush him. And I asked why you were afraid. Here's what I saw you do: You tuned out what others were saying and even the rest of what I had said, and focused on one word. I sat back quietly watching you make a MOUNTAIN out of me asking you "why".
You are doing it again, Magic. A poster made a small comment at the end of a post, and you are not really hearing anything else. You are obsessing over ONE WORD!!!
I am going to make a suggestion and I am dead serious about it. I think you should get professional help with this problem you have with obsessiving. It seems to be a very large stumbling block. It affects your ability to retain information from what you read. (Was this a problem when you were younger, in school, etc.?). How much has it affected relationships in your life.
Living and/or working with a person who obsesses to the extent you seem to do could really be challenging for the other person. I have to wonder if that is why you can't let go and move forward, and why you take every little action from him and analyze it to death.
If this Is something you can't seem to control, it must be hell for you! You are trying hard to not act upon your feelings, but your brain can't stop spinning. I can't imagine the exhaustion you have experienced in one day. I don't know how you are able to drift off to sleep at night.
If this is true, then my heart goes out to you and I wish I could give you a hug. Seriously, I am very concerned about you. Have you ever had any type of therapy in the past, or taken medication? Have you ever been tested for adult ADD?
I know you take a lot of heat from frustrated posters trying to make a breakthrough. I think you admitted to having a communication problem. Have you ever tried to get some type of help to see why? I mean, you are an intelligent woman, Magic, but there just seems to be something hindering. Yes, you seem very co-dependent! Maybe a good therapist could help you. Maybe an evaluation could be done to see if you are living with an added burden ......and get help.
Now I did not say all of that to add worry on top of your stress. I hope you won't think I am being unkind. I just believe it would help you to at least get into therapy to deal with your stitch, and get some peace of mind.
Tx Sandi... however, I thought the point was for me to see where I "was" accepting a cookie. Guess not. I was really trying to listen to what the poster was suggesting & looking for the truth in it. I didn't want to dismiss it.
I won't obsess about it any further.
It is exhausting fighting myself to not act upon my immediate feelings...therefore I am constantly "watching" for it now. I am learning to incorporate a new behaviour. #1 is maintaining self value. I can find it and hold it.... for about 10 mins, then it wants to slide to accommodate. SO.. I am really watching myself.
Yes, I have had some therapy. Definitely need more, but the funds aren't there to continue. I must do this work by myself anyway.
As you all say...keep the focus back on me.
The more I can try to focus on my self worth/goals. The better it is for me. Knowing what I ultimately want & not be willing to settle for anything less, is a healthy thought. Seeing him for the shell of the person I thought he was, is a healthy thought. He is super focused on how to purchase a property that is going into foreclosure (possibly this week). He is not capable of reviewing his emotional state throughout this transaction & has managed to put it on the back burner. He is overwhelmed & exhausted. He has said many times that after this deal is done, he plans on having a life. A life that includes social times & vacations.
Back to me.... I am learning about "impeccable word". That if someone says something to you and you are vulnerable to it...you believe it. This has happened to me!! Believing that "HE" doesn't want me, makes me feel undesirable.... Now, I have to retrain that thought into believing that I am. and... I AM!! I believe and know that I am a desirable catch. I know this on the inside, I just need to know how to wear it on the outside. I understand that people with confidence are attractive.
I am learning about "don't take things personally". I understand now that HIS MLC, has NOTHING to do with me. Its his!! Somehow, along the way... I decided to take this personally. I need to take that belief out of my thoughts.
I am learning about "don't make assumptions". I tend to do this a lot & am usually very wrong. I am trying to keep this at my forefront & state to myself "I just don't know, so don't assume".
I am learning to "always do your best"... I must learn to trust that MY best, is good enough... good enough for me & that is enough. To feel good about what I do & my efforts/ways. I have lived many years being told that my best wasn't good enough. This is a message that runs deep. This is why I have pretzeled myself trying to please HIM. This message to self goes deep and takes me back to the impeccable word. I have believed this message. I need to retrain this thought. This message could also be about himself. That he feels inadequate & took it out on me...who knows (not going to assume).
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last night I ran into an old male friend from HS. He was mentioning that his wife and him were having some trouble about a year ago (she was MLC) and when he decided enough was enough, she smartened up. He also said that I am still drop dead gorgeous & intentionally would walk by my parents house hoping to see me while walking his dog.
I am thankful that he found me still attractive & to hear that he would walk by my parents house surprised me. (glad that didn't happen, I am not a marriage wrecker).
I tend to allow others to give me my self worth (especially Xbf) & not to be responsible for it on my own. Yes, I know I am lucky to be attractive & thin at this stage in life. However, I am more than whats on the outside (that people see)... there is so much more to me than the physical. I know this, but fear others won't take the time to see this.... like my xbf has/does.
I know it would be easy to allow another man to tell me how beautiful I am & to be sucked into believing it from him....but, until I believe it for myself, its not going to make me realize my own self-value.... I must do the work.
I tend to allow others to give me my self worth (especially Xbf) & not to be responsible for it on my own. Yes, I know I am lucky to be attractive & thin at this stage in life
I understand more than you know. But here's my question.....what about in another 20 yrs? When you look in the mirror and see some old woman you don't know.
It's not easy to see youth and beauty leave! Suddenly, you discover you're a senior citizen and when you walk down the mall everywhere you look are clothes/pictures advertising for younger, attractive bodies. Just observe on your next shopping trip and see if stores have big posters of old women modeling their swimwear. Of course not, nobody wants to see that! You cannot base your worth on your attractiveness. Why? B/c the day will eventually come when it's gone. Will that mean your value is gone too?
If you don't find some means of helping yourself find your own value, I dare say you will be vulnerable to having your own MLC, and turning to male attention to receive admiration, hoping to feel better. If you don't have something else to ground you.....something inside you that demands respect, you will crash & burn.
I think my mother had allowed her self worth to partly come from my dad. I didn't know it until he died and began seeing a less confident woman. Which, I suppose, could be natural in some ways. I have seen pictures of my mother in her young adulthood, and she was not just beautiful.....she was gorgeous! I grew up believing she had more spunk, pride, will-power & drive than anyone I had ever known. (Unless it was
her mother.) At 88 she survived a stroke, and the day she was able to walk over to the mirror and see herself, she shook her head in disbelief and said, "I look like an old woman!".
She had to live 88 yrs and suffer a stroke....but old age finally caught up with even her. And you know, I think it hit her kind of hard b/c she had always looked so young and attractive. I don't know why I told this story, it just was on my mind.
I wish I could tell you how or what to do, Magic, to have a deeper sense of self-worth. Maybe you are becoming more aware......with the board pointing out some self-defeating behaviors. I know of one valuable life that was given for you. To Him, you were worth it.........but that is
my belief. It is what you believe that makes the difference.
I think there is some reason. I think something or someone caused you to feel so rejected and undesired that you bought it as being the truth. You gave that person or experience the power to shred your self-worth. It came with a high price, didn't it?
((hugs))
honestly... "once he gets through (blah, blah), he will come back" ... Is what plays in my head but I don't know that for fact. It is called hope & many of the posters on this board have it.
I continue to have hope... I am not banking on it.
I continue to find ways to drop the rope, and uncling from his pant leg. I actually look at each situation/conversation & find a way out.
During this past weekend, it was difficult to not want to be involved in all the hoopla of his business investment/strategy. He kept me informed of his thoughts & how he was going to present the offer, etc. I just listened. He is scared. Scared that if he doesn't buy this place that he will be overwhelmed more than ever & will never get out of the state he is in. The only question I really had was about what it will mean to me as a partner (cost). He said that he would only charge our business for heat, hydro & taxes. That he is not trying to profit off our company. This sounds fair.
It is so unlike me to not hound him with 1000 questions & my point of view. I am really taking a back seat to all of this.
Struggling, although doing it... replacing negative thoughts with positive ones.
Magic,
With some people, there will always be some reason or another why they can't/won't do something. It's because they don't really want to do those things. Actions always speak louder than words.
Hi MM,
I understand that you are "trying" to change your thoughts and actions. I still see that you are so attached to getting HIM to see how wonderful you are and if he doesn't, that you feel rejected or somehow that makes you less "attractive" or that you must be somehow "lacking". This isn't true! Stop putting your self worth into how Xbf or ANYONE else see's you or thinks of you! If after 20 years together he can just stop feeling "love" for you or chooses to just throw away so much shared history, that is a reflection of HIM, not you! Mature love requires effort on both sides. He refuses to make that effort and HE is poorer for it, NOT YOU!
Until you can stop tying your own self worth to what HE thinks of you or your R, you will never move forward. You need to start to see his games for what they are, his way of feeling good about himself that he can control you. He is a damaged person. The way he has treated you, his partner of so many years, the person who was there for him through thick and thin shows he isn't worthy of you and all that you can bring into his life, not the other way around. And until you are able to stop proving to him that, like you said, you want to be there for him and help him, he will never be able to see what life without you always being available when he needs you, on HIS terms, is like, he will see you as LESS than him!
What would you think of a guy who was pursuing you, even after you have made it CLEAR to him you had no desire for him? Who you have told many times in many ways he just isn't someone you want in your life? You would laugh at him and tell all your girlfriends what a jerk he is! You would think there must be something wrong with him that he just can't understand you aren't interested in him but he keeps making a fool out of himself chasing after you. Until you stop chasing your exbf, you are no different than that guy. At this point the past history you have with him doesn't matter. He has decided to see that time differently than you remember it anyway.
Time to GAL apart from him and keep moving AWAY from him. Drop the hope along with the rope. Except that he just isn't able to see you for the great person you are, at least not now. If that were ever to change you will know it and if you have your own life apart from him, it would be up to you whether you will take him back into your life if that ever happens!
Drop the hope along with the rope
Good advice!! It is your hope that stops you from really turning lose of the rope, Magic.
Drop the hope along with the rope
Good advice!! It is your hope that stops you from really turning lose of the rope, Magic.
"You must retain faith that you can prevail to greatness in the end, while retaining the discipline to confront the brutal facts of your current reality."
Admiral James Stockdale was shot down in Viet Nam and imprisoned in the "Hanoi Hilton" for almost eight years. He was also its highest-ranking officer. He writes about his experience in his book, In Love and War. How did he survive while others did not? "Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties." He adds, however, what distinguishes his position from simple "optimism" - and formulates what has become known as the Stockdale Paradox: "and confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."
This is the critical difference which guards against the endless disappointment that optimism’s carrots' evasiveness create - until, maybe, the reward in the end. On the other hand, an ability to continue making realistic assessments of one's current life situation measures and apportions one’s energies and reserves to better face each challenge as it comes, thus positioning one with a stronger chance to prevail.
hmmmm... I am not sure that I want to give up complete hope... but, I am willing to put it ... way over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Progress: Not indulging in his attempt to "chat" about "his" real estate dilemma. He even was trying to be light hearted & called it "ours", if "we" get the place.
...... whatever
I barely lifted my head from the computer to acknowledge the convo. He eventually left the office & went back to work outside.
When I texted later to inform him of a client deposit, he texted back "great, cheers"... didn't acknowledge that either.
~~~~~~~~~~~
I can't be bothered to be "involved" in things that don't involve me... as much as I "want" to be... the reality is that these are the "things" that keep me hooked/there. I don't want to subject myself to this kind of stuff anymore. If we are done, then "we" are done.
I sure hope this is progress.
My friend pointed out tonight that her son is causing her grief and treating her poorly. Her comment is "I love you, but"... I love you but, I will not allow you to treat me like this. Unacceptable. I understand that statement (she loves him dearly...its her son!!). I can now put context to what I need/continue to do as well.
"I love him, but..."
Good job yesterday! How did your day go today?
today was good... I visited his mom & dropped off some chicken/wine pasta that can be frozen & offered my help for anything she might need. Then was interrupted for client appt.
surprisingly, we sold 3 to one client (not much profit, but happy to have less inventory). Time to clean house!! Very happy to get rid of 3 more!!!
He tried to indulge a little more about his vision of the business. I didn't bother.
I left work & went to have a lunch celebration with my friends. We then went to a park/beach & chatted/walked.
While I was out, he texted work stuff & sent a work picture (as he was still working away). He asked a work question... I didn't reply.... It was my time off!!
Going to watch TV with DD soon.
hmmm... "listening" to him today. His real estate deal is interesting. Not sure if its a good idea to "listen" as he bounces things off me or to not be bothered.
Its a tough toss up...
one, because I am super interested
two, because I should be interested as it affects my business
three, not be bothered as it has little to do with me, and I shouldn't care so much (dropping the rope).
Confused which position to take... suggestions?
I am realizing that he is informing me for 2 reasons. 1) as an informed partner 2) as a person that he trusts.
Not necessarily in that order. My guess is that it flip flops for him.
I would be extremely upset if he wasn't informing me.
I am not calling or asking him to inform me... I am not behaving as the old MM would with 100 questions either. I have asked a few.
I feel that I am being his "go to friend" over this... and being "here" sends the wrong message. That he still has me.
The message I want to send is that I am interested in this transaction because it affects me & my portion of the business. However, I cannot be your "friend" and support you through this as you pushed me out of it. I am angry about that.
How can I display/send that message? He said he will call me right back, as we just got interrupted on the phone by his RE situation. That was an hour ago... guess, he got further involved and possibly had to leave for meeting with seller? agent? lawyer?....dunno
I feel that being "friend" and listening throughout this is allowing him to still have a piece of me. I do not want him to have ANY of me, other than business (at this time).
I am trying to treat him like an addiction, for now. Fighting an addiction means being strong & saying "NO".... "no" until I am no longer pulled in by the desire to indulge. Much like when I quit smoking 20 years ago. You must fight the urges & say NO, until the moment passes & until the next moment. Until you just don't desire it anymore.
He asked me today if I was going to go with him to deliver a client vehicle. Initially, I had said yes, as this is an interesting client but will now say "NO" because I know that honestly I was going just to have "moments" with him.
You're trying to get a settlement on the basis that you're a partner in this company. If he wants to discuss an important real estate transaction with his partner he should be able to, without his partner getting all conflicted about giving away pieces of herself, whatever that means in this context.
This kind of unbusinesslike internal turmoil suggests you should consider cashing out and getting a job somewhere else.
Tx Advina...
It will be quite a while until I am able to leave this business. I am trapped until more inventory is gone. He won't let me out of it & there are road blocks getting into it. Quite complicated.
My short/long term goal is to have a legal personal agreement that states I am partner and our deal. Until we are in a better business situation, it cannot be formally recognized. Then, as we downsize to a more manageable inventory to then officially get my name on the business. Then, once I am considered official partner and it is manageable, to begin my exit strategy.
~~~~~~~~~~~
He just called... all frazzled by his meeting with the seller. I did not indulge or ask what happened. Unlike me. He was wanting me to go with him into the city for a few hours to deliver to a client. I declined stating that we both don't need to go & that I am optimistic that another client will show up this afternoon & I should stay behind for that. I know he is wanting to blow off steam about his meeting... Im not there!
I believe you will continue to feel confused and stuck until you are able to separate the personal from the business. You have the two sides so meshed together! You seem to be controlling your outward behavior better. But there is obviously a lot of inner conflict.
Your business "arrangement" does sound a little complicated. He makes all the big decisions, while you work for nothing. You aren't even considered a formal partner? What does he say your role in this arrangement is? Something had to have been said or done to cause you to believe you were equal partners. I understand if you don't want to talk about it, but sounds to me as if he has taken advantage for a very long time.
It will be quite a while until I am able to leave this business. I am trapped until more inventory is gone. He won't let me out of it & there are road blocks getting into it. Quite complicated
.
If you are not a legitimate partner, how he can he stop you? How much of it is "you" afraid to leave? What could you lose? Maybe you could even get a job that paid you a regular salary. I mean, I don't care b/c it's your life. But I hope you will see what has become a crutch.......or a prison, whichever way you look at it.
HI Sandi... yes, still a lot of inner conflict because it goes against my natural instinct to be "wifey/partner/there". How can you stop "wanting" what you want? Weird position to be in. All I can do when my struggles occur is to think "I love you, but... this is not good enough" and carry through. Regardless of what his reaction/non reaction will be. I am learning that much. I have spent WAY too many years pretzeling because I was afraid to cross him. I gave up my control. Control of myself/my thoughts. Trying soooo hard to get them back.
Even right now... Im struggling trying to maintain distance by not calling him to inform him of mundane work stuff. He said he would call me back (and usually does so while driving)... he has gone against his usual self today too. Is he playing a game? to test? is he busy? .... dunno. This is unusual behaviour from both of us.
Yes, he has taken advantage of me & our business arrangement for a very long time. I am "massaging" my way back into my business opposed to walking away. I would be walking away from too much. So, I am being careful & watching my timing and approach to getting what is rightfully mine (too). He knows it. He is just all about control & giving up some of it. Selfish!
I understand it is my prison, but it is also my gravy train.... I just need to stick it out a little longer (while he is involved in one dealing) & then I can approach mine ...AGAIN! If I were to approach it right now, it would look like an attack. I am not up for that fight. I would rather take what I can get (honey vs. vinegar) & then it be done. I have learned an expensive lesson with my first X-h... he put me through the ringer & we fought till the bitter end (still ongoing). I am not doing it that way this time. I will be further ahead to accept what is being offered, than to fight and fight to end up with less or the same, but cost me soooo much more $$ and sanity.
I see your point Gabby. I wish it was already a done deal & over with. It would be so much better... but, its not.
Its just not good timing... not if I have a hope in hell of getting a decent agreement from him. It would be more complicated and more expensive overall (for me) & he won't be as fair... if I push now.
I am not digging a grave.. I am planting a seed. I know that if I push now, he will retaliate & be mean/resentful towards my deal. Don't forget that his current RE deal affects me too (business & personally). I need to back off/away during this time... not push & demand.
He is already stressed out & miserable now.
What difference does another week or so make?
my daughter asked me to try to not contact him yesterday for mundane work stuff, while he was occupied with his RE transaction & other things all day/evening.
It was hard & I wasn't completely sure why she was insistent. She doesn't want me to be at his "call" or to be eager to contact for the sake of contact. So... I didn't. She wants me to start getting stronger. Give him more space and to distance myself......... so, I listened. It was very hard. I couldn't understand why he wasn't calling me to tell me what was going on (he usually does) & when he doesn't, I call..... I began with assumptions/doubt.
Around 8:00 my client called to say thanks & informed me that she had just recently dropped him off. Late. Apparently he got to her work much later than he told me he was going. He had told me initially that he was going around 1:30. He got there at 4 which is why he got back at 7:30 not 4 isn, like expected. While speaking with her, I received a text from him:
H: Is everything alright?
Me: Yup
H: Well.. thought you would have contacted me for update
Me: Nothing was really pressing.
^^^^ This goes to show that he questioned if I was mad/upset and how he expects me to behave as usual.... calling him when we haven't spoke for a while....chasing him.
I was really glad to have held out on contact. BUT!! I did not do it for the reaction/response. I really wasn't expecting one. However, when I did get one... I was elated.
I don't want to be elated. Its false hope.
I did not do it for his reaction.... I did it for me, pulling away.
Does that elated feeling go away?
Magic,
I agree with GM. You seem like a sweet, smart, and successful lady. I know this will sound harsh but you just seem so desperate for any sign of something with xbf. It's the analysis of every single interaction that makes me feel sad for you sometimes. I, too, understand why your daughter wants you to back off. You need to realize your worth and it doesn't come from xbf or any other man.
I posted to you a while back what happens if you never get back with xbf? What then? What is xbf dated someone else? What if you meet someone else? Yes, I know he *says* after x is complete, he will be less stress and wants fun, coffee & cookies and patio dinners. Horse caca. Things always happen in life and voila-another stressful situation. Then what if after x, then y comes up? What then? What exactly are you waiting for?Your daughter is watching you and you are an example.
I know you are *trying*although wondering why he said this or didn't tell you that keeps you stuck. You would be doing yourself a favor if you just let it go. You are frozen where you are. I'm singing now:)
Hope you have something planned for the weekend:-)
Hi GM & G'belle....
I completely agree.
What has come up for me is the realization of how co-dependent I truly was within my relationship. Co-dependency mixed with his demand to control. Whatta match.
The reason I am posting about it is to help me visualize to see & to work through those feelings when they arise. I am happy that I persevered yesterday.
It is easy for many to judge. But this is a learning/growth spurt for me. The fact remains is that it is what it is.... due to the fact that I was soooooo controlled (unhealthy), it is a HUGE step for me to start noticing WHERE & HOW this happens. I was so afraid to do wrong by him fearing that he will get mad & the repercussion would be huge & to never get what I wanted from him (committment/house, etc). I stayed in line & did what I was told because I "believed" it was the way to get him... I was a puppet... so now, when I see it happening (the scared feelings are still there) but I am pushing past the fear & accepting his response regardless of the outcome. I have got to not care one way or the other if it makes him mad or not. ITs about how I FEEL! How the outcome affects me. <<<< This is new to me & I struggle because I easily want to slip into old behaviours that accommodate him, hoping that he will still want me, somehow/someday. It is such a struggle & totally goes against myself because of what I ultimately want...HIM.
With that being said, I am learning to have self-value. Why on earth would I want someone who controls me???? I ultimately want someone who appreciates me. For this to happen, I MUST APPRECIATE ME FIRST!.... this is happening. This started happening when he offered "companionship" instead of reconciliation. I decided I wanted more... but, didn't know how to show that. In the last few weeks, I have learned to say NO, and to stand behind it. "NO" will be what saves me.
I know that this current relationship is not healthy for me... infact, its toxic. Therefore, I am staying out of his way & pushing him out of mine...its just better until I am healthier & /or he has changed.
It was hard & I wasn't completely sure why she was insistent
Because it is self-degrading! Your D can see it and wants you to show more dignity and pride.
Remember me telling you about my mom? Well, my sister was very much like you. Her first H abused her and she would flee for her life, come home and then slip around begging him to take her back. Her second H was worse. Yet she kept choosing the same kind of men. Third H isn't physical abusive, but is verbal and mentally abusive. No matter how hard we try to get her to respect herself and stop putting up with his cr@p treatment, she won't walk away. Instead, she tries to believe her own lies.......and sell them to her family. None of us are buying b/c we can "see" the truth for ourselves. (And FWIW, the only time she gets any form of affection is the few moments when he has sex with her. Afterwards, it's right back to cr@p. Sex is not love.). She caters to him, builds up his ego, walks on egg shells, and works like a dog holding down several jobs. Not him. He's just fine with himself and never changes a thing. But why should he?
Your D can see what you are doing. She knows that a woman should not degrade herself by pursuing a man who treats her like you've been treated. You believe your own lies and excuses about him......and try to see them to us, but we aren't buying it. Your D gets it. You, I'm not sure. I think you feel it's "just so hard" and you choose to allow your emotions and old behavior patterns to dictate your actions. Sometimes we have to apply will power when the emotions are screaming in protest.
I suppose I was always the extreme opposite. Had too much pride about things like that. Before my H, I had been in love with another young man. But when I discovered he might not feel completely the same.....or have the same goal in mind, I shut the door on him and a future with him. No discussion or anything telling him what I was doing, or why, or the messages I wanted "him" to get by what I did. Sure, I was heartbroken and thought I might actually die. But I had enough spunk, pride, dignity, whatever you want to call it....to distant myself from his life and go about living my own. I pined for him silently for a period, but willed myself to stop it. So I KNOW it can be done if you want it badly enough.
(Your problem is you are still hoping things will change and you will have a future together. So, you continue to pine for him.)
So you see, my sister and I had the same role model in our mother, but we are very different in how we view R's with men. It appears you and your D may differ also. Your D seems to have strength you are lacking. My sister has told me she's weaker than me. But I don't ever see her "trying" to be stronger. I think your D wants to see her mother changing unhealthy, pathetic, and degrading actions.....and see a strong, confident, self-empowering woman bloom before her very eyes.
Take control of your life, Magic. The only reason you give over to these weak moments is b/c you want to. Let go of him! This is not a healthy way to live your life.
...and I have!! I have let go... my outside actions are first, I am still working through my inside emotions/feelings... just because I want to let them go, it doesn't just "happen". I think recognition is first. I feel good about seeing things now. Recognizing when its happening & then "choosing" to do the opposite of what I would normally do.
Simply "willing" myself is not as easy for me Sandi. This is because of the control & what it did in my head. I first need to recognize it, as it is occurring. Step back from it & detach emotionally from it. Here is where I notice 2 sides (pleasing him vs. doing what I want)... then facing the reprimand of either choice. Then force myself away from the addicting urges (like cigarettes), distract myself, etc... believe me, if I could just "will" it away i would.... its sounds so much easier. Don't forget I FEARED his response. I was constantly weighing out what would be worse & is it just easier to cave into his request & hope that I get my reward??? I am working on re-training this thought process.... my friends & family (DD included) have noticed my efforts.
I am not trying to sell anything to the posters... my xbf has gotten worse with his selfishness since MLC. He is not at all as bad as how you present your sister's husband.(s)... at all... However, NO amount of abuse is good/healthy & no longer good enough for me. NO excuses!
My DD loves her step dad. She would love for us to reconcile... but she wants us both to grow. Self confidence/value for me & for him to appreciate & not control. "IF" this could happen, I would want it...badly. If not, I am still going to mourn what was & move on... at my pace. I am no longer waiting. I have truly begun to let go & continue to do so, each day. I don't like it, but its healthier for me. I want to be in a healthy lifestyle. I want my DD to be proud that I stood up for myself & no longer accept his crap. She has been noticing in bits & pieces... yesterday she was awesome.
I hope you are right. From what you post, it does seem you have made some outward improvements, but then I don't know what all has been unsaid.......and that's okay. This is your thread, to say or not say whatever you may choose. My objective here is to help, not to tear you down.
I suppose it is difficult for me to know first hand what it is like to live with a person who manipulates and controls. I worked within about six ft. with a person like that for over fifteen yrs. But I didn't have to live with it. I had a very controlling MIL for about forty years that affected everyone in my family, especially my H.
You speak of fearing his reprimand, what does he do to you? Get angry, belittle, punish, threaten, yell, get physical? B/c you don't have to stand there and take it as if you are his child. Yes, my sister's H uses all those methods to control her. So, your xbf is just as bad as hers. But just as I've told her, it is your choice to stay in it.
Even though you are no longer sharing his home, you are still living with his behavior every day. You keep expecting him to change. It isn't going to happen. He is selfish and you catered to his every selfish desire for twenty yrs. It worked pretty good for him.
He continues to control you. Mind control. Once he has control over your mind, he really didn't have to "do" anything else. You do it to yourself.
Hi Sandi...
I feel I am right.... I have made several outward improvements, including today. Today, he had a meeting with the lawyer of the seller. It left him with many things in his head. He came to me trying to unload in the midst of client appointments. I couldn't really give him proper attn. Then when we were in a vehicle together, he started to ask me my opinion. What do I think? What would I pay? Would I offer no conditions? cash? etc?? I just changed the subject about work again. I feel that if I am not officially involved in his deal, then its none of my concern. We are not "friends". We are business partners. He is so used to me being full of 1000 questions & interrogation...that he is now coming forward volunteering info & even asking for my input.
Like I said, I am not "his" for his convenience. Therefore, he does NOT get to have me on his terms.....<<<<< self value right there!!
Honestly Sandi, I am posting all there is... I am not hiding anything of course because I want the best amount of advice based on full truth.
I speak fearing his reprimand...but am working on this as each situation arises. He would only ever be angry and punish by no time spent, dinner/dates, vacations, etc. Nothing ever physical. I would fear reprimand of never getting commitment/marriage/house, etc. <<< this was my motivation.
A long time ago, Bond suggested for me to stand up for myself when we would argue. That was months ago. I was super scared, but saw when I did...he began to respect me..... We do not argue at all anymore. I do not take that anymore. I am learning about other things not to take from him too. It is MY choice not to accept.
Yes, catering to him for 20 years was a GREAT deal for him!! Not for me... I see that now.
You state that he continues to control me.... why do you suggest this? I am being very careful to not allow this control over my mind anymore. I am doing things regardless if it upsets/pisses him off or not... I just don't care...RIGHT? Its still a new behaviour that I am learning & will struggle with until it becomes natural.
I am DETERMINED to change ME!
I
I just changed the subject about work again.
I don't understand. Does his decision about the new property affect your part of this business? I think it is progress not questioning him like you use to do. But I'm just curious why you didn't say something like, "Why are you asking for my opinion now?". I don"t know if it's the right move, but I would have had a difficult time just ignoring that fact and changing the subject. Are you afraid to take him on?
Were you seeing him asking for your opinion as "having you at his convenience"? I don't get it.
I would fear reprimand of never getting commitment/marriage/house, etc. <<< this was my motivation
.
Okay, but you still fear his reprimand. What I am asking is what can he do to you
now?
You state that he continues to control me.... why do you suggest this? I
B/c you fear him. You won't stand up for yourself. And b/c you analyze everything he does or doesn't do. You act like a compulsive or obsessive person with runaway thoughts. But the reason I called it mind control is b/c it is all going on within your mind. Maybe he started that process by his treatment of you, but it's still working. You have to end it.
But the really unhealthy part of all this is that you admit to these fears and his bad behavior........yet still
want him! I think you are fantasizing of him treating you differently in a new R. It's just a dream. He has done nothing to give you hope, or to imply things will ever be different.
You remind me of women who are kidnapped and begin to believe they are in love with the criminal. I say it with concern, not as a critisim. I am worried about your mental health, honestly. You are in this unhealthy "relationship" that controls you b/c you let it.
You see you
need to value yourself. But you don't how. Sometimes when you point out some action that is proving your self value, it seems completely out of context. For example, when you said he could not have you at his convenience. And since you were talking about him wanting your opinion on the property, I assume that was your point of feference. But changing the subject........instead of standing up for yourself and taking on how he completely disregarded your opinion when he started this whole thing was not showing your self value! Ignoring it and changing the subject was the actions of a victim. You chose a cowardly escape rather than call him out. Why? You had a legitimate reason and the opportunity. Only you can choose to continue portraying the actions of a victim. And only you can stop it. But I promise, you will really feel your value when you do decide enough is enough and end this craziness.
Tell me, what's the very worst he could do to punish and hurt you? I want to hear you say it. What is it that is more important than your self value? B/c you make it more important by not standing up for yourself.......and having a face off with him.
Until then, you will deceive yourself into thinking you love him.....and he loves you...and making excuses for him....and continue to obsess over him. Life is too short to live in an unhealthy stitch such as this.
You are doing better, but I want you to see you reclaim your
power. You have it, you know. Believe in it.
Sandi, I can see your point in asking "why would he ask me that, now"? However, it was major progress for me to not be asking & interrogating throughout his real estate dealing. It also didn't occur to me what I should have said at the time anyway....so, better to say nothing at all. I bite my tongue<<< That is new for me.
Please see this as a victory & not coward avoidance.
I am not afraid to take him on... I have done plenty of that in our relationship & that was what he said was our ending (because we were fighting too much). I am not interested in fighting with him any more. Bond, taught me a tool which I prefer & that is to sometimes say nothing. The less I say the better...keep 'em guessing.
It did occur to me.... much later, wishing that I had said "no, I don't have an opinion as I haven't really paid much attention" OR "my opinion is much different to what you are doing"... or something along that effect.
But really, it doesn't matter. I am not being a coward by not saying something... I am not afraid of him that way.
I am working through my fears of reprimand. You ask what can he do to me now? What is the worst he could do to punish/hurt me?... Nothing! I was letting Reconcilliation be my motivation/fear... however, since "I" took it off the table 3 weeks ago ... I am no longer allowing that to guide my actions/words/thoughts.
What I have come to realize & admit is that my fear has been about reconciliation. It was preventing me from doing/speaking/acting/etc... in any way that may harm the chances for reconciliation. In the last 3 weeks I have since realized that this is NOT the way to be. To break the cycle of his control/my fear, I must push through regardless of the outcome to reclaim my self worth. This is what I have been working on. Its a struggle, but I review each situation as an opportunity & do what I think is right & live with the outcome. (regardless of R or NOT).
For example, this morning he called 2x looking for a response from me regarding a work matter. He expected I would provide him with it last night. I didn't give it to him last night.. I figured it could wait until today. When he called this morning, I said I was back in bed resting & asked if it was needed right this minute?... he said no, & to tell him when I got up. <<<<< This is new, I ignored his first call, on 2nd call contemplated jumping out of bed to get what he wanted. I also feared telling him I was sleeping. However, I wish I had said... when I get up, I will check (on my schedule). Still learning.
When you suggest the unhealthy part... you are assuming that I want THIS kind of relationship still. I do not. I have realized weeks ago (& more and more each day) that it is unhealthy & I want & deserve WAY better. Yes, I still want him... but under different circumstances. Much like how my daughter wants us to reconcile too... but only if BOTH of us can change. I am working on me... He is NOT working on him. For now, it is a dream. I do fantasize of him treating me differently... and until he does, its just a dream. Meanwhile, I am doing all the growth & change. He will need to catch up.
A woman who is giving/making excuses to be with her physically abusive husband... I can see what is unhealthy. I am NOT that woman! I have NEVER been in an physically abusive relationship (would never even consider it!).... I will not be in any unhealthy relationships. Which is why I am pulling myself away from him & his life. I see it is unhealthy for me. I cannot be around it. Which is why I have not been indulging in his real estate stuff. I just want to back away.
Minor: even yesterday, he was anxious to get back to work & bring in our usual "coffee". viewed as his "coffee & connection time" (I previously saw it as a path for reconciliation). I declined. First, because I really didn't want a coffee (usually have one anyway, if he offers fearing to say no) and second, because I am not interested in his "connection" time. I just want to work & get out!
I really want to get through the other side of this... I do intend on learning this lesson and it being life altering !! I am not putting myself through all this pain for nothing! It will be a waste if I do not come out a better/healthier person! I am becoming my own cheerleader!
A few years ago a friend commented to me "I am not HIS to create into what he wants. I am "this way". Love me for me, or don't. <<<<< this is now finally making A LOT more sense.
I am not "HIS" ... companion/friend/sex toy/confidant, etc. He cannot just pick & chose the parts he wants to "borrow/use" on his terms/ his convenience. He removed all those benefits & more when he chose not to be in a relationship with me. Therefore, I will not give them to him. I am an all or nothing package deal.
A few years ago a friend commented to me "I am not HIS to create into what he wants. I am "this way". Love me for me, or don't. <<<<< this is now finally making A LOT more sense.
I am not "HIS" ... companion/friend/sex toy/confidant, etc. He cannot just pick & chose the parts he wants to "borrow/use" on his terms/ his convenience. He removed all those benefits & more when he chose not to be in a relationship with me. Therefore, I will not give them to him. I am an all or nothing package deal. [/quote]
Amen !! I am with you on this.. We were perfect in their eyes for years.. They know us inside and out.. They want change but not in us.. That is what they don' t see.. I have flaws but I also have a Huge heart like everybody else.. Our foundation was solid. His unhappiness wasn' t in us as he think it was. He is looking for what is missing in his life and can' t find it. He is creating an even bigger emptiness in his heart. His problem is not with us, nor work, nor other women, nor the neighbours.... It is in his mind, heart and soul...
Hey Gabby.... I like the way you asked that... putting it to me as my partner Joe:
If I was running a business with Joe, and HE "expected" after hours I may or may not respond.... depended on priority. What he was wanting was NOT priority. In fact, I surprised myself and completely forgot. If Joe called on Saturday morning looking for info and I missed his call, he could then text & I would respond when I get to it. Again, this is not priority. If Joe called a second time, I would answer the phone & tell Joe I was sleeping & would deal with it when I got up ... unless it was pressing for HIM.
How would you be a partner to Joe?
Last night ~ I went out for dinner with a girl friend & my daughter.... I AM SHOCKED!! I unintentionally left my phone in the car the entire time. I didn't realize it wasn't attached to me until after dinner. I did not race out to get it either... then when back in the car, I didn't jump to find it either (forgot again)... NOW THIS IS 180!!! this coming from a person who sleeps with the phone on her bed incase of Xbf or business calls. <<< this is major progress!!
Hi Exquisite,
This is exactly what we all our facing with our MLC S's. They would rather see US as the "problem" then face the fact that they are the damaged one's. No other person or thing can "make" another "happy". My W has suffered from low self esteem for years. Now she thinks that by changing the past, dumping her 'old" life and being "In control" of her life (she never was out of control) she will find the elusive "happiness". No "thing" outside of herself can bring this. No OP, no job, no house, no "new" friends. Only by looking inside and coming to terms with what is missing inside can any of the MLCers find what they seek. How long it takes will depend on how many different "things" they have to try on before they realize this.
They are in so much pain they forget that they EVER felt differently about us and our R's. This is why it's so common the hear "I never really loved you" when we know this isn't true. They really believe this as it explains how they aren't the problem, WE are. Until they can finally see that once we are out of their lives and they still feel the same no matter what other changes they make (OP, new job, new home, new personality, etc.) can they hope to start seeing the truth. Some may pretend forever. Some will be too "proud" to admit they were wrong. But those that do that will never really find happiness or peace. Others may come to realize but too late to matter to the LBS who has moved on. A few lucky ones will realize in time before they destroy their old lives completely. All we can do is move ahead and be the best we can be. Mourn the loss of the person they used to be and maybe leave a small opening just in case they find the truth in time. Now, if the truth is the MLC was ALWAYS damaged from the start. That is different. This may be what some LBS's come to realize. That this isn't a "crisis", but who they always were but now have grown tired of the R and want to move on to abusing a new person. If that is the case, the LBS is lucky to be rid of them! This is part of the work we need to do on ourselves.
Just my thoughts, for what they are worth. Didn't mean to hijack, MM.
Mm, the settlement of you being a business partner is a process. It won't happen tomorrow you need to start that snowball happening and moving. L take forever.
Unless he's going to agree 100% and just sign a document, this will go back and forth for some weeks and maybe months. I doubt he will agree and as you have said he's stalling you because if he agrees to business partnership he looses free labour and actually has to part with $.
He knows mm us not going to demand what is hers.
Hi Ggrass... We already mediated out 90% of our agreement back in February, etc.
Its just a matter of the final minor details which may change depending on if he is able to purchase this property or not.
He keeps informing me of the "jerry springer" situation of purchasing this location..its crazy and stressful. The original owner of the property is an unreliable crack head, thus making things very difficult for him to know the truth. Apparently this place will be foreclosed...but who knows!
He keeps pleading to me "but, I really want this place MM!!"
.... so I wait (for his deal to be complete). I may bring it up later today suggesting that we could still proceed with our deal, while his is delayed now.
He continues to be stressed & not GAL. He stayed in again on Saturday night, texting to my daughter how he was going to watch a movie. Today, he asked me to reply to a party invitation on his behalf, saying that he would go to our friends party... (end of July), but he really isn't in the mood. <<< makes no sense! this is coming from a guy who is constantly complaining how lonely he is & wants to enjoy life!! .... His MLC & RE deal keeps him spinning & keeps him up at night. I feel sorry for him.
My weekend: busy with friends as usual! Lunch date with DD yesterday.
Hi MM,
I don't know all the details but to me it sounds like this RE deal is a big part of the business that you want to be 50% owner of (or 49%, not sure)and to me, I would think it affects you as much as him. At least money and the future of the business wise. If you are a 'partner" shouldn't you be a part of deciding if the business should buy this property? Buying from a "crack head" seems risky to me. It may be the property HE wants but if you can't be sure the seller is being honest it may be time to look at another. Is this property for the business or for him? If it's more for him, how would it affect the business if something bad happened and he lost a lot money due to the seller being a crack head? Would the money come out of HIS pocket or would the business (and if you are a partner, that includes you!)take the loss making the business worth a lot less and causing YOU a big liability?
Don't let the personal stuff get in the way of the business stuff. Think of him now as just a business partner and would you want a partner of yours to do something that puts the business at risk? MLCers are very bad at thinking things through correctly. They tend to do things that don't make sense because it's what they "want" at the moment. They don't think about people that they have loved for decades, how do you think they feel about someone who is "just" a business partner (and that is all you are in his mind, at least for now).
I guess what I'm getting at is make sure his actions don't only hurt you personally but also hurt you by hurting the business you helped build because he has poor judgement.
Today, he asked me to reply to a party invitation on his behalf, saying that he would go to our friends party...
He's a big boy, why can't he respond to his own invitations? Besides, this is clearly where you can divide personal life from business. This is personal.