NERO - is this still ME? - DivorceBusting.com

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hi anyone -

thanks beaa,job,ur & will be for your comments. it's a wacky day- i know you can see that.

i hope this is a new thread - and i hope what i post below is link to old one.

fingers crossed - lets see, click heels three times and repeat after me- there's no place like home....

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...at&fpart=12

whattya think? did i do it. xxo

willbe-

i just wrote to you but it's in the old thread. i can't find myself-

thanks for comments- i agree across the board. what are we but allll the experiences we have lived thru? i'm jsut sayin.

xxo

Nero, here is your previous thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2402796&page=12

I hope you didn�t lose yourself. I do agree with you that our stitches do feel like a trap sometimes. I hope you have something fun to do this weekend.

hi bright and thanks.

idk- I'd guess i'm here somewhere - . some days it's hard to figure who i've become , or if i'm just there inside "hiding" and waiting for it to be safe to 'come out" again. be me and world okay with that. i do not deal with criticism well.

(i'm back up here from bottom- perhaps i turned into a giant pity sponge (idk) - so feel free to not go further anyone worn out)

It feels mighty like the info we're getting alot seems to indicate we need to "change" who we are. i know it's supposed to be changing things about our self that are the less desireable aspects. Goodness knows i have some- am working on them - i swear...

But then, all this introspection can wear ya out. I just feel sometimes i've lost sight of old self- and begin wondering wtf...

Either everyone i know that i'm related to is around my age and having their own "crises"sss in life- sooo they're all screwed up themselves - (ACTUALLY, saying that out loud- i can see it's true here, each sister does have quite a huge "thing" going on in th eir own lives - of one sort or another. and certainly poor old mom (and what? insane old mlc h?)

i go around telling self it's not me - tho when you start to get a big group of people all "having issues" with ya- it's enough to make me wonder if it is me, in fact, afterall.

maybe i'm comfortable with taking blame & feeling guilt- but that's one of the things about me i'm trying to work thru and chuck out the window. it does'nt seem too likely in life that i COULD be the reason for everyone's junk. realistically - and how the heck can it be MY RESPONSIBILITY to be old ms reasonable and savior and "good egg" forever, to everybody , no matter what they say or do or make me feel, etc.

even the sister that has been telling me for past five years i'm a "sap" & "sucker" to keep going back to mom's after some of the ratty exchanges we have - or stuff she threw out- (she once called me a "good natured slob" - real nice huh??? whatta jerk -

here's her figuring out yesterday - that it's my job to place my own security aside and worry about her future & security first... wtf... i'm not so sure it's my job to sacrafice self for her....

people sure are wierd - i am continually amazed and then i'm amazed allover again that i'm still surprised at each wierdly quirky quirk that appears...

does it mean i really really have to ditch my rose colored glasses for good - in life? totally.... I used to think it was a nice thing about me - that i believe people are essentially good, and not meaning to harm ya, maybe careless of others sometimes, but not really "bad" or meaning to use ya , or blam ya pn the head , but i'm not so sure anymore. i don't want to be bitter & mean-spirited here..

But, i find i'm really thinking it's unfair (& or insane) for my 2 sisters to criticise (alot) my - uh hem - "economical" nature (like forever) and then think i should give them money instead of just me happily receiving a last gift from my mom. She worked so long nad hard for every little cent she saved - and it was such a struggfle. they used to make fun of her un-spending ways too.

She survived adn saved us all - it was awful when my dad died- she accomplished amazing things in her steady & spartan way - i am like her about money. i can see that today's "luxuries" cost us our "security" in the future. I always got that - when he died , the notion that it could be any of us any day. try and have a happy life and save your stinkin pennies - they add up more than you could ever know - they could matter a heck of alot if trouble came.

now, they seem to think that i should forego my inheritance and just hand it over to them because they need it more, and so on..... (no kidding) why should i feel guilt and they feel entitlement????? ya gotta wonder how they feel that i could possibly be "responsible" for my mom's actions and feelings and somehow supposed to put myself second in life, ALWAYS...

they are adult woman who have been making their own decisions for a long long time - and did have a hand in where they find themselves now -

i was happier with them on - the rosey glasses. . they worked for 60 years - it's hard to detach them from my head & my being. like when that ole tree trunk grew right onto and around the fence it was leaning on.

i don't like this feeling that maybe, just maybe, people don't give a darn what happens to me at all, it's just all about their agendas. wah wah wah- i know, what a big fat whining baby i sound like. maybe that was/is my big old problem in life- i want people to like me - to care.

i live in some sort of out-dated fifties tv show - no kidding. (good nite john boy, jim bob, etc. that is soooo me - and what i thought we were) (i kn ow, what a blind jerk i've been) all that family pulling together - care about each other - etc. that's croaked here long ago- and i think i've been tooooo unwilling to accept it all or see it.

probably died with my fav sister and mom getting mad to be old and feel badly - and being really hard to get along with. . you'd think i'd see the writing on that wall huh? my sister - poor woman drank herself to death because she couldn't "take" life as it was- it's a lesson , isn't it? life and people can be ratty but ya can't let it kill ya. and mom- she just ranted and railed against it all- but all it did was alienate everybody - who wouldn't bother to wade thru it- to even try & go thru it wi th her (old age)) idk

BUT - CAN YOU LET IT make you take off your rose-colored glasses????? do we have to? should we??/ or fight that-

okay- here's me quitting being a big old jerk- and i realize how i sound-

but, i still wonder - do ya have to give up entirely on people (people's intrinsic goodness?) is it really an antiquated notion and gotta ditch it? within reason- not see wo rld as an enemy- but be "guarded" allll the time with everyone - as a policy??

oh well- i'm sure i sound like a real neurotic - dope even to my self- but i'm tryin to cut thru the junk- it's about letting go of those favorite old notions in your head/heart- for dealing with people and life...

as usual- not sure wtf. think i'll take my neice shopping today- she very humbly was mentioning last nite the nice cloths some girls in school have - and i can certainly remember being a little (ish) rag bag with nothin new hardly ever - so i'm thinking here's a fun thing- buy her some duds to make her feel perked up- when you're fifteen you need to have some cute stuff to wear & feel all, who you are, fifteen & cutie pie - instead of just ug old stuff and so on-

it's all soooo wierd and tangled up isn't it-

I am truly sorry universe for rants - this got to be my place to run to when all this junk is bubbling out of my brain - and i cannot imagine what "the answer' is - I am - having some days of strange "pressure" when i'm in a mode of total - letting go - of years of really "important" duties I tried to discharge faithfully - and now all this crappola & pressure, worries - from people who did not hardly ever step up and help me with that JOB - THEIRS AS WELL AS MINE.

i am unwilling to buy into this all- and it's not like me-
i feel bad sayin it- but there it is -

i just don't want to be anyone's "mom" - here. not my job anymore. i mothered mom and it wore me out.

i just wantt my own life again... now, where did it go?

xxo

My friend, it is safe to come out again. It is. Just be you. If anyone doesnt like it, thats their problem.

I have never felt that I was told that I needed to change my essence, Nero. If I was, I didnt listen. Who I was at my core, my values, my feeligs and beliefs, I did not change. I liked me.

I did need to change some of my actions, though. I did need to come to terms with some things and figure out how best to act moving forward. I needed to change my mindset about certain things. I am glad I did.

Introspection shouldnt wear you out, though. I just looked at the things my h said and figured out if they had merit. I looked at people I admired and figured out why. Once I got I needed, I went about making the changes I needed and wanted.

I think it is worth looking at, if you feel people have issues with you. Doesnt at all mean they are right. And it pays to see them for who they are. Its just more info for you to use to become your best self. But if you are happy with who you are, that is all that matters.

And yea, the taking blame and feeling guilt. I freakin lettered in that. I was the queen of it. Everything was my fault. And I mean everything. I dont anymore, though. I own only what's mine, thank you very much. The rest, belongs to whoever it does.

And no, you arent the reason for everyone's junk, Nero. You just dont have that kind of power. Thats theirs. Let them have it.

I was the reasonable, savior in my family, too. Still am to some extent. But I control how much for the most part.

I think you need to quiet the voices of your sisters and your mom a bit, Nero. You know your truth. They can think what they want. It doesnt make it so.

Please dont allow your sister to talk you into what she wants to do with the house. That would be a huge mistake. You would have to be gatekeeper and that is never fun. You have a right to feel secure, Nero. It is not ok for you to sacrifice yourself for her. You matter, too. Please remember that. You have nothing to feel guilty about, Nero. You have to change that mindset.

There isnt anything wrong with rose colored glasses as long as you have no expectations about what you will see. You just have to take people as they are and accept that and then decide how you are going to deal with them. Sometimes you will be disappointed. But thats because you had expectations.

My friend, I try to see the good in people. I also try to see them as they are. And I have learned to accept that not everyone is going to like, not eveyone is going to be kind or care and that's ok. Thats their choice.

But that doesnt mean I am going to be someone different because of that. I only have control of me. And I am going to be true to myself. Not because of how someone acts, but, in spite of it.

I think you are very special, Nero. I want you to see that.

Quote:

I'd guess i'm here somewhere - . some days it's hard to figure who i've become , or if i'm just there inside "hiding" and waiting for it to be safe to 'come out" again.

Wow. Me too Nero. Me too.

Tad

Wise words UR -

as to it being 'safe' to come out. That is the voice of someone who has been emotionally abused. I soooo didn't get it until a good friend pointed it out to me very patiently, over and over again. In one sense the world will never be the safe pre-lapserian place it once was, but if it fills us with terror we are recovering from emotional abuse by someone close.

I could not believe that this was the case, and much posting of advice to others fails to see this central point. It isn't the same as being a victim. Abuse is the one area where the abuser blames us and we blame ourselves. We feel scared, unsafe, and traumatized.

I think it may be the reason why some people here 'recover' so much faster - they either were not emotionally abused by their partner, or the partner didn't make it stick. We have to learn to recognise and undo the abuse, and that isn't easy. The first step is to recognise it.

I believe that all adultery carries the potential for emotional abuse. It is no sort of response to an "unsatisfactory" relationship and yet society accepts this lame excuse. Anyone who is unfaithful to their partner has big problems. If the relationship isn't working they have at least a 50% responsibility for working on it, not running off to someone else.

I am not saying we are perfect, simply that no-one has the right to cheat on another person and claim it is OK on any level. The problem lies with them, not us, but they try and shift the responsiiblity, even blame, to our 'shortcomings'.

Just read this and thought of you because I am always saying when the pain outweighs the fear, you will do something different. I am not saying you should because I see some positives happening. But I know that you question when you will know if you should change course.

There comes a time when the pain of continuing exceeds the pain of stopping. At that moment, a threshold is crossed. What seemed unthinkable becomes thinkable. ...Slowly the realization emerges that the choice to continue to keep doing what you have been doing is the choice to live in discomfort, and the choice to stop what you are doing is the choice to breathe deeply and freely again. Once the realization has emerged, you can either honor it or ignore it, but, you cannot forget it. What has become known, cannot be unknown again.

hi ur -

thanks for note - you are such a faithful guardian out there. (angel? we wonder???)

i need to "chaw" on your words - alot. I see what you are saying- and i always thought i was an okay person . My first gut reaction at bd was "this is f'd up- it's not ME whose freakin out" - this guy is crazy-. (i also had an instinct to "fight it" because what sort of schmuck would i be to just "hand over my life" without somuch as an objection???. i am not so sure anymore if i was right. once you find out (the hard way - unfortunately) you've made some HUGE MISTAKES in life- about people and what you saw & felt - and thought -

it kind of undermines everything. i mean, i WOULD think i'm swell- wouldn't I? i'm me. sooo- if a gal lets that sort of thing get a foothold (i guess i have) - a bit anyway - it could go very wrong.

i am having a lot of post-game analysis here with my mom sitch (yeah - i know - r.i.p) of course, it's easier to analyze away without "reality" in your face anymore.

i'm going to go clean and get the phone- and try and be lucid later. thanks for your thoughts- you're so supportive always. I'd sure like to feel special- can still remember how very much better than this it felt-

workin on it alllllllll man- fingers crossed.

xxoo

hey tad-

i know- so what the heck happened to us??? idk- how the heck does one get back to square one???

it sure is impossible to un-know what you've found out.

????? wasn't it nice when we were (incredibly) young and knew everything??? oh mannnnn......

hey hi bea-

ya know, you sure are rite about shifting blame and there being (really) no good reason for cheating & lying.

i need to come back later and re-read & think a bit. it's hard for me to even begin to be objective. -

it's sad what people do to each other- willingly and blindly-

idk- anyting....

hey anyone-

ya know- little tiny (TINY) hopeful things aside - i can't see what i'm doing here be sides still STILLLLLL trying to wean myself off my particular "addiction". It is amazing how "good" this thing(h) can make me feel - and how "bad" sometimes - and (maybe overall???) how bad long range (uncertainty & anticipation). My notion of what i had and what i thought my life would be. i see what it's become - and for this minute i guess i accept that because i am still here and coping along - keeping my trap shut. it's got to be this way with any addiction when your brain and your cravings are at war. yikes!!

i guess something to acknowledge about one's own personality- that love addiction streak i've got.

but i still think overall- my r now - is not "for me" in the end (as it is) and not "good for me" now or in the end. stress-level wise. it's this underlying "thing" of course in the background of all of our lives. i do get it that nobody's life is totally problem free- and it is my "turn" to have chaos - uh hem - is it done yet????

I was reading raine's thread a bit this morning. wow and what a hopeful story. I like it alot- it makes me have hope- then i remember not so good to go "there" maybe. same old thing isn't it- good to hope? bad to have expectations or even think things can "go back". and then ya wonder howcome ya feel nuts alot of the time. i have to laugh about this even tho i'm alone.

I have to compare me to some of my favorite smokers- most days it seems possible to quit right up to the minute they take the first cigarette of the day. (a friend told me her husband said this of his alcoholism ) me too- i think i'm detaching- i am teeny by teeny- the increments seem so small- almost unseeable. i know they're there because of my emotional response to things that would decimate me before. so yay- me taking one less "cigarette" a day. i wonder today if it will ever "end" or be anything different. but then- no stinkin expectations huh?

h will show up here tomorrow - we'll go on a trip - he'll be fun & charming - i'll be fun and charming- wtf?????? i'll remember what a pleasant life we make together (and rethink ending it all ) - he'll have fun but it will not sink into his head for one minute that i'd ever GO - & that he's killin it ...etc, etc etc. WHATTA JOKE HUH?

i found myself just before thinking about old things i could have handled better - really really old old old prehistoric things. wondering if 'THIS" OR 'THAT" WAS the culprit- - omg - stop that rite now . i'm sure it all contributed - bt what about alllllllllllllllll the good junk?

could ya die- digging up ancient little things from 20 years ago- and wodnering if this was the beginning or that.

like my sister that drank herself to death- a person could go completely crazy wondering where we all "failed" her in 55 years . and if we did, etc. I AM NOt going to re-inspect a lifetime of tiny steps that any particular one could have meant something else -

i do not usually indulge in this kind of junk - it's alllll soooo DONE AND OVER - her, mom. i guess "in the end" i'll view this whole mlc thing the same way. put it away somewhere on a shelf and never ever shake it out and look for all the little moth holes. ya gotta hope that the other person knew & saw your love & and was happy to have it- and know about it- and if they couldn't use it to make them happy or to help save themselves - oh well huh???

i'm gonna quit this - go eat something goopie (maybe make some old (american version) oatmeal scone drenched in butter and jam - feel "cozy" because it's chillie and raining like mad outside and clean this messy house - and get on with the day.

i'm getting mighty impatient with this all - h's smug detachment- sure, he's "got it all" rite now - but every dog has it's day - huh???? wondering when and where it all will end.

wanna feel "free" of the crappola.

Thank you and have a nice day & drive thru please...

ANYONE KNOW HOWCOME ALL OF A SUDDEN just random words are bl ue and underlined? i've been curious & noticing

duuhhhh

Nero,
I haven't had that problem. Check your computer settings to see if you may have hit some buttons accidently. Your postings are still coming across in black an white on the forum.

hey thanks - that's interesting - glad it's only me-

the thing that interested me is they are random - and i couldn't figure how or what was picking just certain words & phrases- (god? the universe??? poltergeist)

i swear- computers know i pick on them, and they figure little ways to "tease" me so i always know that, ultimately, they are in control... not us

xo

OH OKAY-

MID CHOMP here on this (semi-awful) home-made (brick - uh hem - scone- i'm acknowledging that i should stfu about all this stuff - and be incredibly grateful that i am (at least at this point in time) in a position to be home and thinking away - and that even if my life is not what i'd wish- it's a hell of alot better than most.

i don't want to be an ingrate and whining a$$ - which i know i can be- so sorry universe. I do get it- and see it - and know - when i manage to get even a small step back -

just that- SOOO - here's me yanking self up by boot sttraps and shutting up- & getting to work here -

one way or the otehr- i'm sure in the end it'll be something and good or bad - i'll just plug on thru. rite???

xxo -

ya know everyone - - sorry to be a jerk here sometimes (or)(alot) - glad you're there tho. unfortunately (for you all) and fortunately for me - this forum is my place to "fold" somewhat, speak the unspeakable (we love anonimity)sp? - drop the facade - no need to BE tough and together and mature and doin what i gotta - and just blop out the thoughts- good and bad , sort thru them. it does help to gain perspective - just "saying it out loud" - hearing self- thinking of listener and what she/he would be thinking- how it sounds - is it accurate/fair (crazy?) i don't want to wander too far into looney-land and not know it. someone always manages to spot the crazy and kindly point it out-

opening eyes -

just cause i know i CAN be a real

You know, Nero, I used to spend an enormous amount of time going over my life. Could I have done things differently? Would it have made a difference in my childhood, in my marriage.

Especially when there is a death. It makes you go back and rethink your life.

What I have come to realize, through a lot of work and thinking, is that we just do the best we can with the knowledge and tools we have at the time.

I know that I never did or didnt do anything with the intent to cause harm to anyone. That matters a great deal to me.

So, could I have done things differently? Probably. Did I realize that at the time? No.

I completely believe that things happen as they are supposed to. I know it without a doubt. I would not have been ready to learn what I did any sooner than I have.

I accept that what has happened in my life, is what I was supposed to go through in order to be at this exact moment.

Once you accept that, it is easier to forgive yourself. It is easier to understand that we are human. And stuff happens, and we do things and it is what it is.

There will come a time when you will want more. I think you are inching towards that. And when you do and when you accept that you deserve that, you will know what to do. Until then, embrace the fact that you are right where you should be on your journey.

Never apologize for your thoughts or feelings here, Nero. They are valid because they are yours. There are no right or wrong ones.

This forum is a wonderful place to be able to work through things, share your thoughts and feelings and figure stuff out. No one is judging you. We have all had similar feelings.

You can be so hard on yourself, my friend.

nero, i was thinking about you. I was thinking about me. What is it that I want to do. that I want to be?
ambition seems to be lacking. just getting thru day in day out. In my brain, think this has to stop!
was thinking about your h- and the fact that he still comes around....if it were not for the kids, I think my h would be outa here. off to his own new adventure.

want to get to that other side!

hey hi-

ya know, sometimes i do capture the "knowledge" about having done my best, and even tho it may be lacking - in retrospect - at the time i didn't know or couldn't have. and you're right - intention is EVERYTHING.

IT'S THOSE other moments when i think- "well, of course you WOULD tell yourself that" "it's what you want to hear and lets face it - you are you - & need to be your own biggest supporter in life" -

so then, the "i wonder if's" appear. i know you are rite.

i don't want to not hold myself to some standards in life. you know? if i don't at least "try to do my best" - then how the heck can i face o ther people or the world - kind of thing. Or feel good about self and be own support system- if i don't believe i did try my best & do hold myself to some principls in life - something like that , anyway - i worry sometimes about letting my own principls get lax - or if i get "selfish" and i do not want to go around treating other people like nothin - it's a bad m.o.; and i know how bad it feels to be treated poorly- or like we are zero. everyone knows how terrible it feels - soooo i don't want to ever dish that out to anyone. (kind of thing)

i worry that i'll let my own stress crappola blind me and make me bitter and ratty or hypocritical and less careful of those around me in life.

i need to know who i am and what i believe is good person to be - in order to go thru life trying to assess what i'm seeing and so forth. did that make sense?

I sure look at h and people around me- and while they're spouting junk about someone that treated them badly- they're doing it to me or someone else. it's that junk- how blind human beings are (i guess all??) and then i wonder if i am too.

just don't wanna be- i know- i sure am a mess inside that head sometimes.

i THINK i've always tried hard to be fair and decent- but it's me makin the call- who knows what the world sees or feels?????

you're nice- have a great day- thanks fotr thoughts.

(ya know- it's my "catholic" upbringing- reading this book geared toward making one a good monk- i realize what a huge downer & self-critical thing religion can be- and that is a shame- but there you have it. i'm workin on fighting the urge to shave my head into a tonsur - and get a robe i guess. (this is humour by the way) i just see how it's ingrained in kids probably *(my mom) and how it's passed along. the you are UNWORTHY THING.

EEEEK XXOO THANKS FOR BEING AROUND MAN

HEY HI WILLBE-

YOU AND ME MAN- we're psycho-mates. i wantto get there too- i want to quit this crappola and KNOW FOR SURE what the heck i want and where to get it and how and so forth.

oh well huh? i can feel the frustration vibrating rite inside me sometimes - and impatience - just can't make it happen before it happens tho, can we???

oh w3ell- gotta go feel edgy and try and tidy up this house that i lfet til too late because my brain thinks, "yeah, don't like it? suck it up - i don't like alot of your "junk" either" and then i procrastimante. oh well- not going to kill self- shouldn't even be here poking around- but ta da...

trying to lighten up- on my expectations of self - and in my response to those of others. i t hink it's a HUGE problem for me- reacting to what other's want from me or expect from me. i do not get to have too many from anyone that are met - really.

you know- i don't know what the heck he wants from me or comes for. i'm tired. if you didn't have kids - who the heck knows? i think if i did have them- he'd not be so "gone".... i don't think either are "the reason" - i think it's in their heads. i honestly doo believe mwd when she says it's an insanity of a sort. problem is- what the heck does that mean to us - do for us or make us?

we still just get to be bashed around by this stupid, unreasonable and UNFAIR SITCH- oh well huh? life.

i keep thinking fair or not- maybe it's just my "turn" in life to have a boatload of $hit going on that i gotta wade thru. i sure can't find any good reason or anhything.

like you- i get tyhru the day. HEY - BUDDHA AND EVERYONE WISE OUT THERE - says this is the best way to be. maybe, i hope & pray- this is benefitting us if we are truly just getting thru the days. maybe we're becoming wise??? i used to have a notion of what my future would be- try to have and find security- etc., i used to treasure my past and maybe look back toooo much - too fond notions and expectations of everyone and everything maybe-

maybe we are and will be better people as a result(one can only hope)idk man -

xxoo hang on - i think we'll get there in the end (who knows when that will be tho) i sure hope we're laughing about this in five years - ya think?

yes, I believe that h follows the mlc script and he is going to eventually wake up but by then it will be too late. i can already feel myself disengaging. I am starting to not like who he has become.
I do want to treat others kindly. this sit has taught me to think and recognize more...that's a good thing. hope I don't lose it.
I was hoping at this point in life or sometime soon that i could say...I have learned. I get it, I am arriving, maybe Ive got a little wisdom under my belt....
I am no where near!
There are so many smart, strong, wise people on this board. wish i could have a minuscule part of that!
I am all for learning and growing everyday. Sure we are growing from this and becoming better people. Atleast one thing I feel certain of.

hey hi willbe-

forgive my disappearance and slow reply- h was here, we went to martha's vinyard for a nice trip (him being nice makes me very suspicious- sorry) - it was good. then sister & my greatneice came for visit for ten days or so- soooo nice to see the baby & play (she's five- not a baby but a 'big girl" now) anyway-love that kid- miss her alot when i'm not in fl- my sister was going to 'work" at mom's house & begin to help me sort thru, etc. - she did a whole lot (of nothing unfortunately). she is the queen of "not being able" to do x, y or Z - and then i am the "clear up queen". we are quite a pair.

as usual- i'm determined to un-become what and who i am & be more forceful and less crowd pleaser. slow going on that.

sooooo - not on line much. everyone gone- ta da- back to the forum for me.

I agree with you about the people on forum- i can only hope and pray to become one fraction as "together" as some and as "moved on" as some too. as far as "GROWING" - I HAVE - TEN EXTRA lbs worth. i figure my stress-response must have been to eat anything that crossed my path and couldn't out run me - for the past year.

went to pack a few things for shore & my comfy chub shorts couldn't even zipper up- nuts... sun dresses til my waist reappears.

soooo- all this "keeping self wrapped up tightly" is taking it's toll.

oh well- i agree that me, the person, is improved. i wonder tho about everything else. now that i'm here- i bore myself.

better go garden or clean or do something useful- or creative- ...

with no body to share life & almost anything with (i know - this is fatal, but what the heck) it all seems soooooo kind of not fun and pointless. i continue forward - go act as if, go have pma - etc. i do see that it's necessary to keep going & hope it becomes reality - i just feel fizzled out alot, tired and see exactly what im doing. getting thru an other day - but don't quite feel like i'm "living" it up-

i think i expect too much from self & life maybe. i hope it recedes a bit. i'd not have thought i ask for much at all really - this sister(war-anger) stuff is depressing as heck- selling mom's house (and dismantling her life) is depressing- hey, maybe that's what's bugging me today (aside from fourth ofjuly being the total f'ing anniversary of THE BOMB in life.

hey- good news is, it's gone for another year - yay.....

okay - misery train pulling out of station..

xxoo thanks for note- i'm outta here. i am sorry to be a bummer- if honest, i think h's improved a heck of alot in the companionship department-more pleasant & even affectionate sometimes. see old r sometimes (tho, strictly no actual verbalization (or physical-i-zation) of anything - God forbid!!!) i do not think it means anything really- i do worry that he's just getting comfy with life as it is and thinks he and ow and me just all rub along together for eternity now- eeeeeeek iccckkkkk

i am impatient as usual - oh well huh???

xxo

Nero, it is always difficult dealing with a parent's death - it is good that your h wants to spend time with you and is civil.

Maybe he is working through his stuff. Although there is a script, they all walk a different path.

Still being alone at our age isn't always a lot of fun, and we have to work hard at counting our blessings. I am not sure whether I simply do not want a relationship or whether it is a response to a lack of men. I have snooped on dating websites, usually when friends are boy shopping, and haven't seen a single guy that doesn't make me want to run for the hills. If that is being 'too fussy' then I will go with that label. There seems to be a lot more choice if you are younger, but not prepared to lie about my age!

I have been trying 'mindfulnesss' or living in the moment as an antidote to periods of depression. Apparently in depression we get into a stuck mode, when we are cut off from our good memories (like the MLCer) and if we live minute by minute, it helps us out of it. It also helps us to change, because we aren't reliving old scenes, but treating the experience as a new one.

I like my mindful state, and feel more alive. Next stop meditation.

It would be good to be able to report that my xh is now a calm and sober citizen full of remorse, but sadly that would not be true.

however my youngest son just landed a great job against stiff competition

Hi bea -

and thanks for the thoughtful note. I'm so glad for your son - it's a hard job market - so yay him. i swear- if it weren't for my neices and their kids and some young people to be interested in and care about- i'd croak. and that is the truth.

adults are such a bother and soooo devoid of , well, mirth really. I love my friends - but my sisters drive me nuts - and the kids are saving me totally. visiting past week or so with 5 yr gr neice- i laughed so much- we goofed around sooo much & i miss her like crazy. makes me remember how good it feels to laugh - alot- every day. and how fun and easy to make a child happy and snatch a hug and life is allll soooo simple & good. i need more - it's my own giant addiction. gimme gimme

I am going to take a tip from you- and work alot (harder() on the mindfulness. You are right that i need to keep in the moment. As matter of fact, that is exactly what got me going down the "blue" road yesterday. wondering what the past million years really "were". if that's not non-productive - idk what is!!!

re h spending time with me- it's good and bad. i forget sometimes it's not what it was - what i thought. i don't know w hat it is really. i feel too old for this much uncertainty. i know life is change- God knows i've been told enough - i wonder if i were just totally alone and lonely all the time0- i'd adjust and not know about him and he would cease to exist in my life & memory. maybe i'd be done and happier. just wonder - ya kn ow?

re other men- - i'd like one, - i'm hoping that if i ever meet anyone worthwhile it will be that old pleasure to get to know each other - little by little, and form a r. remember that? when it was "fun" to get to know someone- not some chore we had to do- like cruise internet for dates - eeeeek.

you're very positive - it's heartening. i want to be "happy". i'm not sad- i'm not quite at happy tho. good luck with meditation. the closest i think i can get is when i walk and do stomach crunches and count. my brain is so full of looking around, and counting- i zone out. who knows, maye i can try it sometime again and have success. i do need to empty mind - alot.

today- i am not going to engage in convo about my sister's anger about not inheriting as much as everyone else.(???!!!) I am going to figure out what to do with this mountain of junk i brought down from attic - and i'm going to go get out in the garden soon and spread my mulch arund. i love my mulch bags- but last batch sat there for about three years - i know, how sad is that?

i DO have many things to be grate ful for. i do "get it" that we have to appreciate what we do have - and not waste time mourning what we don't have.

i am a "communicator" tho - too much maybe. i used to fill in all the blanks in my r with assumptions based on actions. (my mother wasn't a talker either- just like h).

now that i've given up the assumptions - im feelin like life is very empty of feelings. (something like that)

i'm very tired and bored by his usual old "stone wall" - light banter - strict avoidance of anything meaningful conversation thing. it's not enough- i'm croakin for something authentic and positive here. oh well- said it- moving past it- .

that being said- i have a lovely neice here in town - 16, good companion- we had a great long walk last nite- to local very charming cemetary- she took pix & we read stones, etc. very companionable & pleasant. i'm keeping that GOOD THOUGHT - and not letting h and allll the negative stuff creep in today-

or die trying.....so long and thanks

resolution number 6 million huh? who says, fall down 23, get up 24...

Hi - read your comment about 63 being too old on Heather's thread, to become a new person (or something like that) really no, only if YOU think so. I am becoming more resolutely adventurous again after a long period of cowardice and fear (trauma induced no doubt, but nevertheless . . . .) Not sure whether anyone builds relationships at our age like that any more.

Really pleased for my son - and in a weird way the hurt he has experienced at his father's hands have made him a stronger person. I hate to have to say it, but standing up his his father, and being his own person at too young an age have made him a tough young man. Not something I feel called to thank my xh for, but in a weird way I do not think the rather cossetted baby of the family would have had the drive to do this. Maybe he would.

How old was Grandma Moses when she started painting???? :-)

Sounds like your God-given talents with children and the joy you share with them...well, maybe this is the path to choose?

Nero, there are sooooo many children needing love and you have lots to give.

hi guys and thanks for comments.

i know you both are absolutely right- we're limited ONLY by what we think we "can't" do. funny how easily i can believe this and tell my neices the same thing- and i do feel it's true. (finding hard to apply to self and actually become something different)

I think i am a bit worn down by the past few years - mom's death & seeing up close how each day may be our last - and my inability to just jump up- hate h's guts and walk away without a shred of doubt.

i hate that i can't yet view lonliness as a better option than this life. i know i have it really good in a million ways.

i'm bummed to not have "love" as i always thought I did - to feel it. im just a bummer this morning- so i'm going out in garden spread that darn mulch and hopefully work it off.

sorry and thanks. i'm usually better than this-

xxo

One thing I really believe and it is that affairs are emotional abuse. We tend to see an affair quite wrongly.

As Frank Pittman said, it is not a sign that there is something wrong with the marriage, but that something is wrong with the person having the affair.

Financially can you separate from your h and still be OK? (I seem to remember that you are not married, and live somewhere where a long term relationship confers no legal rights.)

Only you can answer the question 'Am I better off emotionally with this guy or without him' There have been times when I have queried this but in my case I have no real doubt, the price would be too high, but we are all different.

As an observer I do not think you value yourself enough, and people dump on you. I hate to know that you are unhappy, and this jerk isn't mature enough to stop behaving in this way.

hey nero, been awhile. I said to h that I din't believe it was all made up fantasy on my part, that there was some geniune and real to it. we go back a long ways. we do have good memories.
i know I still get jealous of the good that someone else(ow) may be the recipient of now. I hear 25 in my head "life's not fair..."
new ow doesn't have "our memories".
I"ve gained from this. I have met so many strong and really upstandidng and outstanding women that I may have never met had I not come here.
Spread your talent, your gift, your nurturing, your love. You hav e the ability to grow things!

hey hiya -

I just came in for food and saw your note. i was sitting down to say that i had a thought - out there in sun digging weeds from curb (i hate grass btw)\

I do not know what makes him "not mature" enough to stop behaving like a cad - and value what he's got & me and "get normal". so, is he just selfishpig? or insane/mlc?

or is mlc just something we "use" to tell ourselves til we're past the insane misery portion of the show- and getting to the jump ship portion of teh show?

the continual insane quandry of dbing!!! do you ever know the answer??? is there one? it's him coming back up here in a week - me going down there for a month- something i DECIDED i want to do - but honestly- maybe i should not go into that old life - and have it rubbed in my face? (that it's not like old times?) i'm trying to "face my fears" sort of thing and not just run and hide (up here in nj) but honestly- does it mean or accomplish anything? i'm not sure anymore.

my gut says GO - BE A PART OF THAT HOUSE AND TOWN AND LIFE TOO - DO NOT JUST RELEGATE SELF TO ONE PLACE AND "HIDE OUT" - GET YOUR GUTS UP AND STAY IN HIS FACE IN MY OWN "PLACE" IN HIS LIFE. DON'T HAND IT ALL OVER TO OW SO EASILY - DON'T "BECOME MEEK AND ACCEPTING" ACT LIKE I'M PART OF HIS LIFE AND THAT LIFE AND ACT AS IF....

with me -lately - it's seeing and listening to my mother - alone since my dad died in 1969- lonely as heck last bunch of years when all her freinds died and she became less and less able to get about. mind going a bit - unhappy - lonely as helllllll always. and telling me daily since i was only one seeing her - - my sisters too - three out of five with no one to share life with (it makes them bitter-ish) - one couldn't face her breakup and died of alcoholism as result (long story- but sure as heck, the jerk who broke her heart did it). it seeps into your pores- i don't want THAT.

so maybe i have some morbid fear of being alone - tho i'm alone a hell of alot- and function okay. (but i have h there in some wierd capacity still) i'd just rather someone in the house - no one even knows or cares if i come home at nite- that seems soooo unfulfilling - maye i'm being a wah wah baby now aren't I?

HE HAPPENS to be all i have at the moment. it's "soemthing" rather than nothing. sad but true. it's f'ing shabby - and here i am ,thinking it's better than nothing. i'm soooo put-a-good-face-on it- accept what you're given rather than jump up and down adn DEMAND what you want. (but, can you really demand someone feel differently than they do?)

i drive myself nuts. But - even if i think i'm a nice guy and decent citizen- it doesn't follow that i can make anyone else think it and feel it - does it? that's my real problem. i can be a sterling guy til the cows come home- if this jerk thinks he's in love (tho he throws that word around to both ow i know of). he's always been scared & hard as hell to say it to me forever - tho usually managed once a year or so. when it's fake crappola- he can sling it allover teh place. wtf???

i can even be grateful for that, part time something - he pays my bills, lack of poverty and somehow is still "there" in my life. not what i'd like- but what the heck is he doing it for? that's me- grateful for whatever the heck comes my way. I never demanded or neeeeded all "the best". i thought it was a strong point in me- grateful for whatr i had, not jealous or greedy for more -

i've thought that legally maybe he knows that he can't even kick a non-paying tenant out on the street - so maybe he keeps me around because he's afraid i'll sue him? it doesn't seem likely since i said first thing and several times since i could be out of his life in a week- and he makes a case forme staying around- esier for me, etc. he "convinces" me to stay in his life- i let him.

idk - maybe he can't let go becasue somewhere inside he realizes he and i have some tie that is huge?? i just don't know and he can't speak. no kidding- it will all die on the shelf becasue of his non-communication and inability to look long and hard inside self and figure what's most important to him & convey it. ya know that song "say something, i'm giving up on you"?? i think that.

i want more- do i have a right to it tho?? who the heck kn ows. i liked it in olden days- living together. this apart stuff is my doing - the two houses. i could kick self - maybe that makes me less judgmental & final. (raised knowing no matter what in the world happens- "it's your own darn fault"- thanks mom)

it is abuse (affairs) - because it's demeaning to other person. whether or not the purp realizes it (and i think they delude themselves so as not to feel like the rat they are).

I could separate and not probably go under financially. i have savings for my "old age" - no kids that will "save" me if i need it- probably me on own. soo can keep self afloat til find some sort of job- i do not think i will be able to (realistically) get a job that will pay alot- i think i can get by with luck.

PROBLEM is the loneliness- i find myself PREFERRING & "needing?" to have someone in my life besides just me. i can get a dog- but it's not the same is it? i was raised in a "pack" and i like that best - being part of something. allllllllllllllllll alone- well, what's the point? even being wonderful is no darn good if nobody else is there to share it with- EVERYTHING is better shared.

lately h is killing himself to be nice, do stuff and go on trips when he's here. it's something we both like- i enjoy it and think he does too - BUT I am suspicious. OF IT. of him being soooo nice. see- that is what it's done to me. can't even enjoy self when he's being old self - because i'm thinking what the heck is up. i think(know) it's guilt. last bunch of years (i can see now) the only time he's been really nice is when he's going to see ow - i believe he is "buying me off" when he's being rotten and knows it. i may think i'm dbing and letting him run his course - but he is seeing me accept the sitch as it is (i fear) - i don't think he intends to ever stop it. it's come to that- maybe.

i'm not being wiseguy- i think lies and deception and hurting someone you know loves you is a conscious decision to disregard another human beings happiness in order to have something you WANT - AND at same time you apparently WANT to keep faithful old jerk around - "just in case". or some thing like that. his old stupid line is he "cares a great deal about me". f that. if he is soooooooooo "love of his life" about ow - go f'ing have her. i've said it - more than once- he doesn't "stick up for himself or her" or correct me - he doesn't say a thing.

that being said- i can't make myself look good here. i've always been a pretty confident kind of gal- this has knocked me for a loop- and made me think things i've never had in mind my whole life. like this dump junk- i moan here and there - and i can see that when i like something (like the r i've formed with my neices - since babyhood) and want it in my life- i'm willing to suck up the crappola from a sister that might take advantage- because i think in the long run it makes my r with the kids go smoother. does that make sense? i can see my part in being the dumpee- guilty - so paid my dues - NOW - just how does one do a 180 with that ?? i'm tryin hard- it is difficult to say NO to people. i am trying- they just push it and push it to have their own way AND DO AS THEYplease - til i back off because i'm not goign to spend my life in a state of resistence & "fighting". and i do- i see as i'm saying this. -

UH OH - I HEARD THAT- i just need to do that old 180 somehow.

i'm sorry for this rant- i know you can see from this junk that i'm in a bit of a twirl today- overwhelmed is a mild description.

need to take one little step at a time here and STOP trying to figure out entire thing all at once - i am so not in control of this life i'm having. i hate that.

i could take control- i would need to man up and NOT CONSIDER another living soul - failing to have my own giant RULES AND DEMANDS - I SEEM to lack the direction i need to be "big boss man". i have to go think about that-

my only goals seem vague , like" get some structure back in life, figure out where i live and regain sense of well-being and happiness"

cripes- okay- back to gar den- sorry if i made ya nuts. i'm not "goin under" oranything- mostly just spinning out of control for the moment i gu3ss"

i'm sure heat will exhaust me this p.m. and i'll shut up and go away.

xxoo thanks for even bothering- so why is it so bad to appreciate that someone might take the time to respond? why is it so bad to be grateful - even if what you have is waaaay less than the most you'd like to have? why is it bad to say thanks? (something no one i know here seems to be able to manage) i am surrounded with people who think if they do not say thank you- they don't have to feel grateful or they don't have to acknowledge what you've done (usually for them), etc. i'm bummed with people today- who could tell???

hey hi and thanks for note-

i'm tryin. i think i'm just havin a bad morning today. yesterday i felt actually sick to my stomach thinking of talking to h on phone. why? just anxiety - over what? idk.

you are rite about the people. my h is ruining my memories- i think the ch eating has alwasy bveen there- unknown to me. he says not- i think he lies. after all- i've discovered what a giant liar he is. the problem with lies huh?

oph well- trying to rise above- failing miserably today- hoping to do better tomorrow. guess we all have a fall off the wagon now or then- oh yeah- my buddha book says i don't have to "be better" and "know the answers" - i just have to acknowledge and make peace with my shortcomings gently - and get on with it. control them - but not judge self harshly -

i'm impatient for a life with love in it that i CAN share and spread. i do have alot i kn ow- happiness for me seems to HAVE TO include other people- i just do not see or feel the whole "I am my whole world"kind of thing. my world is improved by sharing it - all of it- happy- sad- just adds dimension. alone is not my happy place really-

)(weLL TIL life is soooo busy i long for alone time- it's hard to get it allll adjusted just rite huh? i do see the insanity of what i'm saying here- btw...

so, this is me and what is my "i want more". i want this mess of dbing and mlc to j ust go away from my life and i want allllllll the (what?) fun and wodnerfment he's found with ow??? (if that's whtat it is) - i want happiness oozing out of me - and excitement of seeing my lover - if that's what he's got. he doesn't deserve it any more than me- i'm jealous that a rat gets it- and good old me doesn'tQ - wah hic , wah

how's that for being a spoiled brat today- i'm sick of being understanding of allll his - what? - mlc - neurosis- i've got my own

i can do better- (well, maybe today i can't and i just gotta wallow til it's passed?)

xxoo

Quote:

yesterday i felt actually sick to my stomach thinking of talking to h on phone. why? just anxiety - over what? idk.

Nero, I think the anxiety is normal. This man is deeply hurting you. A part of you is sending you warning signals, "Danger!" I think it's natural to feel anxiety when communicating with someone who has abused you so profoundly...much like a person feels anxiety when faced with an attacker in a courtroom.

The thing is...think about who he is really. He is a mere mortal who obviously has a lot of flaws...one of which is NOT seeing how beautiful you are. :-)

Take the power you are giving him and send it back in your own direction.

It seems to me that you have a lot of anger and frustration and pent up feelings about how you've been treated and you abuse yourself with your own powerful feelings.

Just my two cents.

Much Love,

Heather

nero,

I've felt the same way talking to H on the phone. Or in person.

The first few months, just being around him made me throw up. Literally.

It still causes a pounding heart when I talk to him sometimes. Less and less as time goes by.

It's normal... and it stinks.

Lois has a lot of good advice above.

---GG

One more note: I think we tend to give the MLC-er too much power and overestimate their value because they've hurt us so deeply. Our brain sends us warning signals and those signals can be misconstrued and confusing when combined with old feelings of love.

Don't let your brain convince you that he is more powerful than he is now. You are stronger than you know. You've made it this far. :-)

QUOTE:" i'm impatient for a life with love in it that i CAN share and spread. i do have alot i kn ow- happiness for me seems to HAVE TO include other people- i just do not see or feel the whole "I am my whole world"kind of thing. my world is improved by sharing it - all of it- happy- sad- just adds dimension. alone is not my happy place really-

That makes perfect sense

It shows how loveable and caring YOU ARE. Your happiness is from helping others WHO APPRECIATE your effort with a THANK YOU and a SMILE !! It validates your good deed and gratify your pride and joy. It is not the others that made you happy, it is the feeling you get when you make a positive difference in your actions. AS SIMPLE AS OPENING A DOOR FOR AN elderly to smiling at someone who looked exhausted and smiled back at you with a look of appreciation. You sound a bit like me

You are special and yes, we all have those funky days but stormy weather never last forever.

quote: i want allllllll the (what?) fun and wodnerfment he's found with ow??? (if that's whtat it is)"

That depends on how you perceive cheating.. Is it something you can do to someone else? If not, then it wouldn' t be fun. It would eat at you, the guilt and shame wouldn' t be towards your partner, it would be towards your actions and maybe would be mirrored in your partner.. See the game play here?

Nero, you are moving forward nicely

Just STAY TRUE TO YOURSELF AND YOUR VALUES !! this is the best advice I gave myself to move forward without to much self-inflected damage.

nero, you got the happiness thing. it is not for holding in or for having at someone else's expense... its for giving and for sharing, no matter what grey sky is above us. You have given it to your nieces. I hope that my boys will get that. I tell them.... don't think you are just some island out there or that you are entitled...
It goes around and it will come back around. at the end of the day , I want to say i did my best.
I think I have thought for far too long that my h, is it! I put him up on such a pedestal. slowly, I beginning to see his humanness, but more so and sadly, I am seeing he is not one willing to grow. I want honesty and goodness and kindness in my life. h is a kind of person that puts himself first.
I think we deserve better than that

You Guys - lois, goatgal, exquisite & willbe -

i'm humbled by your kind responses -

i'm sittin here havin a blub just because you are all so generous & nice to take a minute and share your thoughts and be supportive. i have to come back later when i'm composed.

thanks - you'll never know how much it helps (& means) to have you guys out there

xxo

hey hi-

I had alot of sleep last nite- and i have no past today. I am going to have the best day today that i can.

I thank you guys for looking at what i thought/felt and not just saying what a big baby - but offering your insights.

you guys are so wise - when i get like thAt - This morning i feel a little shabby for not having more gratitude for the good stuff and ashamed of letting the bad stuff get soooo big it swallows me up.

objectively- (physically ) my life is great. I can have all the time in the world to do whatever i like, stomach full - bills paid, cute house, - any kind of possession i want i have- - - some $$ in the bank- and so on - ACCORDING TO OUR societal standards - i should be feelin like i'm in heaven - right.

funny thing is- without the emotional side of my life being in order - That all is not worth so much - is it? that's my big big realization in this db thing. it amazes me to think it is all nothing if you have big "troubles".

it is humbling - and i am thankful for the good, honest i am.

I'm thankful that you guys can look at my "junk" and understand and leave me feeling like - "okay, so today a dip in the road - tomorrow will be back "up" . no big deal.... i remember now- ups and downs - don't freak out.

I think it's the strict "keeping control" allllll the time in life- always always always stopping myself before i say something i can't retract - or that would hurt someone - "rising above" it all, "doing what i should" , being a "good girl", etc - that darn little voice is a hard task master - and so on.

When i get like yesterday - I feel like I need to make it "the end" - don't want to- but might just go bizerk and do anything rather than NOTHING. (impatience to a deadly degree) did you ever feel like - afraid to go to the edge of the cliff you'r standing on, or edge of whatever becasue inside you have one little fear you might jump off ? (if there is nothing between you and "down")? i've felt it since childhood- do not know what the heck that is - i sure never feel like dying- but i recognize it. it's sickening. it is that thing on the phone sometimes.

i feltl it's allll soooo fruitless - a stupid phone convo- instead of a "reallife". it's not good and it's not "enough" for me. except- it suits his current lifestyle - and i'm stuck at the moment in life. this dbing is going to save me or kill me - no kidding. i've dug deeper for patience than ever before in my entire life-

mom's last bunch of years & all that worry & sadness & the anger and current fights of my sisters - everyone being at each other's throats. i just want to not know about it all. i thought once she died alllllllllll the bs would die with that awful sitch- what a fool i was! can't even mourn properly with these sisters still bashing the poor woman- nothing is "enough" for them. it's sad and depressing. (expectations, entitlement, greeeed??)

i need to STEP BACK BIG TIME AND LET THESE WOMEN have their lives and i feel badly to not have more sympathy for their respective plights- but i keep reminding self they'll all get a big ole gob of cash that is more than they ever saved or would save in life- so it's a chance to somehow have a bit of a "new beginning" and they need to feel gratitude instead of greed and anger. (who are these people? who actually gets word they'll get a big old inheritance and says it should be more???) i can't get over it- ever...

right? Okay- i'm getting out of here- before i open this can of worms when i'm feeling pleasant and upbeat.

today right? have the best day one can and no past and no future....

enjoy the knowledge i did one long hard job to a "successful" conclusion - kept mom home (she began "failing 2008 when Linda died) it's been a long long road. - she died in her own little room in her own little bed with her kids around her- never crashed her car - never got loaded up with drugs that would not have "saved" her - i did keep her having her life til the last possible moment (despite everyone in world's constant ADVICE ABOUT how to do it differently, better, etc.) - she never reached the time when she wanted to live somewhere else or have someone live with her- so she always had the choice - and was happy at her own kitchen table -

i think i can, i think i can...(little engine that could)

I have come so far (i think) from the beginning. hardest things i've ever lived thru and remained on course. i just flag now or then-

I do overthink things - the more i'm by myself- the bigger a hole i dig myself into. i know you guys are right and i neeed to not even allow h the "power" to jank me up.

It is myself. it is a bit of guilt about thinking i need to be a "hard@ss" more in life. not to have power- just because i hear myself say i feel trapped - in my role- and i realize it's a role i've perpetuated from just being some guy in a big family and it was my "job" - getting along, sharing-keeping everyone happy & in between mom and everyone. i need to let that go with my mom- duty done - can't "make anyone happy" - can't even make self happy- we all have our own journey-

thanks for the help along mine-

i'm, outta here- garden calls - as usual- big plans for the day & allllllll i'm going to accomplish *(not) but wtf...

thanks again- you are beautiful people -

To answer your question, I did have thought of leaving all and I mean ALL behind.. I wished I had an accident but I did not want to cause the accident. Then, I thought of escaping with money and clothes.. Then I started thinking about my kids.. Each of them individually and what I would be putting them through if I went ahead with my crazy ideas. I CRIED AND CRIED AND started seeing what their lives would have been like. OMG !! IT WAS AWFUL !! It opened my eyes and made me take charge again. I needed to get healthy and fast for myself and them. It was a step forward in my journey. Suicide was never in my mind. Fight or flight would describe my feelings. Anger towards XH was also in mind. For me to run would have shown him what my life was like and would have been a sweet revenge of having him stuck to deal with it all.. It wasn' t a smart move and definitely was not a solution because I would have destroyed my kids.

I set a goal for myself to return to whom I used to be. Devoted, dedicated, kind, organized, dependable.... Day after day, I rise higher and higher and I am soo proud of myself.

The worst is over for me. The battle I have now is 3 teenagers and an 11 yrs old.. lol Hard but imo, a piece of cake compared to 5 yrs ago ( BD ) lol

hi and wow-

the kids' ages - you sure have your work cut out for you. maybe since i don't have kids and nobody relies on me (since mom is dead - big ole nobody) - it's wierd.

i th ink i need to be part of something- but nothing to be part of. oh well.

i particularly like

Quote:

I set a goal for myself to return to whom I used to be. Devoted, dedicated, kind, organized, dependable.... Day after day, I rise higher and higher

i'm glomming onto that and making it mine. i've been trying like mad to be similarly the woman i WAS. IT'S hard to treat him like i am that old person. he is not that old person he was. i'm trying hard not to be wiseguy defensive jerk-

i'm not sure if i can- but in general in life i'm trying to just get back to being me and on good footing with world. . there's alot of anger aand bad ju ju around me here- my family- this estate - mom's death, etc.

i kn ow diving in and BEING like them- with the fighting, etc. is not the answer. two wrongs don't make a ri ght- did your mom say that???? mind did alllll the time.

i'm trying man- i agree that in my life - the bomb and this dbing is worst thing i've ever done - endured- etc. wonder where and how it will end=-

to be continued

xxoo okay day today too - so grateful for that. roof guy fixed my leak and so, rest of day to tidy up or die. i'm sick as heck of all my "stuff" here- fingers crossed for a BIG effort of some sort and a big blob of something heading out the back door - forever. fingers crossed.

xxoo

Nero, I feel your pain. At the worst moments after BD I was grateful that my son was a grown up adult and I didn�t have to deal with little kids, because I was in such a pain that I could only handle so much. Later I realized that I was lucky to have a supportive family and my son. Yes, my family didn�t quite understand the concept of DB and standing, but they were always there for me. It would have been a lot more difficult for me without their support.

I remember you said that you have a good relationship with your niece(s). Maybe you can reach out and do some fun stuff with them.

My sweet friend, you are always so hard on yourself. Why do you think that is? I can give you my ideas, but, I want to hear them from you.

Here's the thing. You are stuck. Stuck in your life. Stuck in your relationship. Stuck in what you think you want or should have.

While you are stuck, life is still moving forward. Now, sometimes being stuck is a good thing. It gives you time to find your footing. It allows you to figure stuff out.

I have told you many times when the fear of staying put is more than the fear of change, you will do something different.

For some of us, that takes a long time. Doesnt mean that you arent moving forward. It just means you are moving forward at a slower pace.

I know you have trouble with this whole detachment/MLC thing. I mean, really, it doesnt make sense to someone who isnt in crisis. It is craziness.

But I feel that you are allowing him and what he is doing to break away pieces of you. I hate that for you, Nero. Hate it.

You are more than this relationship. Way more. You give him so much power.

Do we all want someone to share life with? Yes. Can we be happy if we dont have that? Yes, I believe we can. Having someone should enhance your life, not define it.

Figure out Nero. Who do you want to be? What do you want to do? I dont mean a job. I dont mean being happy. I mean, really and truly get to know who you are.

I know that you are amazing. You are funny and smart and really insightful.

Once you can embrace who you are, you can figure out what you want.

Please dont give him so much power, Nero. He doesnt deserve it.

Try to detach and enjoy your time with him if that is what you choose to do. It doesnt make you less than as long as it is your choice. Not done out of feeling badly about you, but, because you want to.

I want so much for you to see your worth. I want you to know how special you are. Once you really do, you will know what you want. I promise you.

^^^^^^^^

Wot she said. Nero, that said it all with wisdom and grace. Please do not feel badly about your choices, but you really are worth more than you are getting. You may decide to stay with that choice - with your eyes wide open, but do not sleep walk into this. Hugs

heyhi-

i've been thinking about you (being queen of house clearouts (bane of my existence) (and add mom's house to the list) and (me and actually getting my "extra stuff" out the back door forever. (have a mountain currently i lugged out of attic- determined not to put it back). i just go do other things more fun and ignore it- i am world's biggest procrastinator on almost all fronts. (and i am letting self be - well, except what i'm doing because it will make me feel better & less jumbled in life).

i don't think i expect too much more from me than just a regular human being should be able to live up to. I would like to see myself all ensconced in a new life - but cannot "make" that happen quickly - and - whose life is "perfect" ????. that's the thing- if i am honest with myself - I am more fortunate than most and still have a very nice little life (compliments of h) BUT (aside from the giant $hitshow of mlc blossoming over there in the corner). . there is not alot I sit around yearning for in day to day reality (in a physical sense) . I do miss what i had (or thought i had) in my memories. (the mental pleasure of feeling loved) (and the joke is- maybe i wasn't, but still was enjoying the notion falsly- what the heck does that make my "mental happiness?") (a think all in my mind) (pma?) (i see my 3 girlfriends w/their long long r's & i'm jealous) (can i make that happen fast? (no) or at all? idk) and i'm not sure what (or if) i have left there. I am in the physical life exactly almost as it was - without the mental feeling of well-being i THOUGHT i enjoyed. too much water under the bridge? idk

i miss people who have left forever too - i am too aware of death really being the final issue & here with us daily - not all this "stuff" going on all the time - this is all crappola. did that make sense?. compared to people dying becasue mere mortal that i am, couldn't "save" them - r too - maybe it's like a person dying- i just do not have the power to do it alone.

memory wise - the sad futility of alcohol & linda dying took away my whole youth, h lying took away my adulthood til now - mom needing me for her mom & unhappy & dying - these things just wipe away a portion of your life's memories shared with that person. it did happen- but it's soooooo gone forever - well, it will never return .

i can capture alot of happier times- they flit in, but i can't really use them to make today happier because tehy are just gone forever. it's gotta be today

I don't think i'm incapacitated - i just feel like a worn out person who is not sure now what she is or wants with allllll my reference points gone. Even my sisters (one big happy family- HA!! - pack of snarling hyenas) IT'S just alot of changing around for a mere 6 years. I just can never bring myself to chuck people - that's really it. (what if i'm wrong about them? what if they change (back), etc. might sound nutty- but you see that kind of problem? that is me.... the second chance, last chance saloon... maybe i believe we all can redeem ourselves? idk

Quote:

While you are stuck, life is still moving forward. Now, sometimes being stuck is a good thing. It gives you time to find your footing. It allows you to figure stuff out.

i think that describes my initial feelings of "can't" - overwhelmed, absolutely and totally. (deer in headlights)

i'm not sure about me having concrete GOALS in the "life moving forward" bit - i am open to whatever comes next - i wonder about it - i dont' think we can stop the future whatever it holds, good or bad. maybe i'm savoring the last remnants of this old "life" of mine - feeling like i "have" someone to share a life with- before it's totally gone forever too?

something like that??? that's the only "sense" i get of life going FORWARD - just this big thing outside me pulling me along with it- I can't bring myself to jump in and embrace a future that will be HARD & unppleasant ONE minute before i absolutely have to. (lazy? realistic? practical? idk)

I think it's definitely true i'm stuck- but then i get analyzing the nature of my "stuck" and with my life being as it is - whether i particularly like it or not- if i'm honest - I do have total freedom really to do whatever it is i feel compelled or inclined to. i could go hang out at bars and boink someone's eyeballs out if i'd like to. amazing allll the things that aren't that appealing if you've really got the freedom to do or have them. (i don't believe i can "make" a new, better r ( and person) happen in my life - even if i wanted to - quickly. i can only try and be optimistic and "ready" if it happens by.

my heart is not bleeding- i do think i've hardened considerably - i'm thinking the fly in my ointment is that if i know he is with ow - then i really don't like it. it irks me - on that issue i am stuck feeling that it's a shame he is forcing me out of his life - little by little i am "leaving him" in my heart. it's just a constant "criticism" feeling kind of thing - you'd think a lifetime being compared to sisters would make me better at not being center of attention- i don't want to i find.

he is knocking himself out to be nice - little trips, projects, goodies, etc. idk why really. i've said here before i honestly do not know what i feel for this man now. i've got allll that residual "stuff" - the 'bond" thing- BUT - I DO NOT feel passion and the incredible fondness and i wonder sometimes if i even do love him anymore. it's hard to be objective because i'm protecting my heart here - becoming more and more "objective" - welll, i guess detached really. i might resist "the end" - but i'm sure not allowing self to be fooled in to seeing a "future". other than somethings bad - i don't think i have expectations... (i hope)

i see nothing at the moment- trying to let past totally go and not worry about a future that might not come.

Yesterday i got really busy fiddling around with cement in the garden for several hours, visited my sister & sold her mom's car- grabbed neice and we went shopping and got some goodies - laughed a bit- she came back & was knotting a pretty bracelet &* i was goofing off-

so, on the whole, what the heck is there out in life that is sooooooooo much better than that? (that i can reasonably expect now) my expectations of life and excitement are pretty incredibly small - on a daily basis. watching mom crumble for past six years has made me and the whole day at a time thing really reality. if she didn't fall or die- it was a good day. if i didn't explode from grief (in beginning)- good day. laughably small expectations -

now- when i actually get engrossed in gardening or a project or anything- i note it's progress. it was hellish when not one thing in the world interested me and i was pretty sure i would just expire...

i feel a bit artsie and craftsie- have some enthusiasm- I honestly don't know if i have "expectations" of h. true- just like dying- it's a crapshoot looming out there- anything could happen any day.

aside from the days when i get washed over with anxiety- come here and dump & ask for some sane input - mostly i don't give a darn - no kidding. i used to think every single thing was important- all the details in life- they "mattered". i'm not so sure anymore. good or bad? idk ...

I am such a slow and prudent mover- i save money, time, etc - i think i'm a tortois - slow but sure? if i had to guess...

I find myself apologizing for what i think "they" "the world" EXPECTS of me- expects me to do. you know- everyone has a big fat opinion they're ready to toss out- "if that happened to me, i'd _______________" yeah, yeah, yeah...

sooooooooooo easy to say when you're not the guy in the soup.

i'm sure i'm a giant pain to "watch" and listen to, here in this forum. i sure do have my "agonies" sometimes. i know you guys must scratch your heads and wonder how long i'll dangle out there in the wind??? idk- i keep thinking of you and everyone saying when it's right- you'll know and you'll do it. i actually have faith in that...

seee how calm i am this morning- have taken an otc sleeping pill 3 nites in a row (bold & daring move for me) - tired of even trying to "tough it out", tho could have tried last nite. just takin the easy road for the moment. I have been hand-holding with girl next door. she finally moved her mom to a nursing home by her house (in pa- 6 hrs away) after six or seven years of back & forth (and agonizing over that decision) & 24-7 attendants here w/her mom - and in a week her mom died. last few days funeral, etc. - geeeez - there it is, in one's face again- it could be any of us - any day.

i worried like mad last bunch of years- where would it "end" with mom and the memory. i hated thought she'd end up a mindless blob - i swear the daily concern of someone's welfare day to day- the insanity of even thinking anything could be "changed" - just find the good moments and do best could - try not obsess about where she'd end up living- etc. (i'm glad i did now- but it all could have easily been different) you can't know.

just plod forward like some stupid beast of burden that ignores the insanity and mundane misery of it- just one step next - one step next - shut off brain-

I just do not look ahead and see some giant shiney FUTURE looming ahead (like the big ole taj mahal) on my own. maybe i can see a windy wooded trail and a humble log cabin??? I think if i could "see" my future in the sense of "where i live" i'd be (i think) more pro-active. I see both lives i have and had - well, have both, don't spend alot of time in one- but it's there "waiting" (maybe?) (why h doesn't want it gone (my possessions and stamp on that house) - idk) that is totally a "wait and see" proposition too. will i be "glad" if i just walk away from my "life" down there & come up here forever??? another "thing" i am not so sure if i should just entirely dismantle and walk away from. the people- friends, family - etc.

see what i mean? i am the queen of over-thinking when i actually do begin to think it over. i will substitute again this year- it's fun and a "job", tho not a fulltime high-paying one. i am coming to conclusion i'm a piddler in life- having a pleasant time one day at a time (this morning anyway) - not wanting to take on giant demands and RESPONSIBILITIES (even of myself rite now) one minute before i absolutely HAVE TO. oh cripes- i think i just swallowed a small moth in my coffee!!!)

THEN I moan and am dissatisfied and then i think maybe i'm greedy and lazy - you sure can look at it either way- can't you???

i've "considered" myself into a corner here. I met this man when i was newly married to ex. i don't think being "free" of him will facilitate my meeting someone else if that is my karma (and my biggest maybe desire- someone to love and appreciate me (again) ) soooo - as usual - (ta da) i am awaiting wisdom to alight... and for my life to unfold. i almost feel it's nothing to do with me and what i 'm doing - what will happen & is happening.

i'm feelin very detached and floatie about it all this morning. sometimes i do feel okay - i know the control freaks are probably cussing out my air-headedness - (see what i mean about h paying the bills? instead of me worrying about paying my credit card bill- i'm wondering how my cement walk creation bit turned out- if pressing a scallop shell in it is cute or what?)

i've probably bored you right into a coma with all this junk - my head is like a giant trunk of junk- better left shut for the time being in the attic (since it's quiet and chilled this one minute). no expectations man for that either....

xxoo

oops -

Quote:

Figure out Nero. Who do you want to be? What do you want to do? I dont mean a job. I dont mean being happy. I mean, really and truly get to know who you are.

i don't seem to have a big ole definition. i have no idea who the heck i am. i never spent alot of time looking that hard. there seems tooo many parts to just have one notion about me - i have alot of contradictory things going on-

i feel toooo tired and done to know rite now.

i want to laugh alot- and enjoy not holding someone elses future in my hands. i want to have kids around because they make me remember about simple pleasures allll around us all the time- if we just take a minute to stop being stupid old adults- and i want to laugh and be a jerk.

i'm sick to death of adults and their junk - & issues. it all i have

that's not what you're talking aboput , is it???

Quote:

i am world's biggest procrastinator on almost all fronts

Me too.

I've been reading a lot about procrastination lately. Learning alot. Procrastination is a common coping mechanism for people who have been left a lot (emotionally/physically)...and, even more so for people who have a history of being severely criticized/judged harshly as children.

At some point, maybe you decided to act out your anger by turning it against yourself? It has to go somewhere.

Maybe you don't feel you deserve the good things in life? I know I struggle with this in a major way. It feels natural for me to sit still when things are swirling around me.

There's a remedy and it requires a strange combination of consistent action and self-love.

hey hi-

i know, my neice, she's my little saving grace around here (NJ) and then in fl - my neice & her little kids. remind me how fun life can be and how much pleasure you can share with a kid- without hardly trying . i love that any little thing at all - if you share with them and spend the time- is a ton of fun.

isn't it great to be small and everything is NEW???

I'M WOrkin on makin the most of what i've got. grabbed my neice yesterday (16 yrs)and we went shopping. i'm usually a bit lazy about shopping- but lost my bathing suit and ya gotta have one in summer- rite. bought us each some goodies- she's a good companion. kind of quiet, but has her own opinions, tastes, etc. she's a bit of a night owl- and is getting rolling just when i'm fizzling- but we have fun and i'm glad for the company.

she's compassionate and sensitive - has alot of common sense as well. . yesterday she was telling me she was glad for the times she visited my mom with me. she & h were the only ones that ever offered to go with me. i was glad, i'm happy she can appreciate that her taking the time mattered alot to mom & me too. it's important to feel good about her own "contribution" i think. she's got some troubles in her life with her dad's drinking- so she worries about stuff a young kid shouldn't have to deal with . yet lots do today huh?

anyway- i do have her mother in town - and she can be a real character- but is a good egg essentially and i'm glad we're friends. i wouldn't have made it thru last few years without her and a couple girlfriends. you're sure rite about some support around in life.

I sure had a different notion of what my family was - than what it is in reality - my other sisters. we all sure are different. oh well huh? what a giant mess.

tryin not to think about it - i'm tryin not to think about everything it seems -

hope you're doing well- thanks for note.

xxo

hey hi-

interesting stuff, but i don't think i was necessarily judged as a kid- or if i was, i don't think i was aware really . there were five of us- i think the minute i appeared on the scene - my mom was probably overwhelmed- and crazy all the time with too many small kids all at once. then there was always some baby coming along just when things got udner control idk - i think we were happy kids and all entertained each other - we were soooo close in age. it was a very good childhood (well, i think so anyway)/

tho, i can see as an adult that i don't now or ever did feel like anything "special" - just another kid in the mix. that was what made h so nice- he made me feel special really for first time in life. oh well-

i may be just a bum when it comes to doing things in advance. i have no theory about it other than just lack of that type of self control to FORCE myself to do something i don't like- until i have to and it's the bitter end.

personality? quirk? idk i sure know that when i do it- something always comes along and i lack the "wiggle room" - i make myself miserable. but do i correct it/ usually not. it's strange that i con tinue to do it to myself- when i know full well i'll "pay" in the end.

oh well

xxo

Hey UR -

sorry for giant epistle. After 25 years typing all day , every day, i can type as fast as i think- and it's like we're having a "conversation". i get thinking and it gets pouring out of my fingertips.

too bad we're not all face to face - so we could actually converse.

(oddly for a blabbermouth like me) tho, i find not talking about this mlc junk helps quite a bit. It all does recede more and more in life- i feel less actual pain - more and longer times where it's not in my mind at all. so that's something huge.

it's the being busy - having people "to play with" thing.

you have me thinking alot about my "stuck-ness".

here it is- i'm STUCK with h's mlc and resulting messed up life for me - and i cannot fix it quickly . i cannot fix him (at all) probably. much like mom and her health - i'm powerless over something important to me. and i have to learn to possibly live with it (for evermore).

i know- real life- suck it up - everyone ends up there sooner or later sometime.

In response to your question about being hard on self- maybe i'm the only one i get to boss around in life- so, maybe i have frustrated POWER issues? the only one I can control in any way is me. maybe i'm "tweaking" myself - work in progress - trying to be best/better me; as in, there's always room for improvement? idk- i think overall i'm okay, normal kinda guy. I don't think i'm so "down" on me (i'm not objective probably) - i just can see i've got problems to work on too. (he, on other hand, thinks his - self is perfect. ) sheesh i don't want to be like that - hey wait- i'd LOVE to be like that. .

I get it tho, there's always room for a compliment to self on one's progress too tho. my Buddha book says "our neurosis are what make us interesting" we don't have to get rid of allll our flaws, we just have to gently make peace with them and control them". kind of a better thought than "curing" them all - where would one begin???

power is a weird thing isn't it? maybe you're rite about h having too much "power" over me. well- the power to make me feel unhappy-ish when i know he's with ow.

that's my big stumbling block. i'm just forced to know- and my reaction is to not like it.

his mlc & me understanding is getting old. it's a good to develop the patience - it's a stinkeroo way to get it.

i can see my own progress here - it may be small but it's mine and i'm grateful for it. - detached enough to not always feel decimated.

just sayin.

Hi Nero,

I hear you about feeling like you are stuck with your spouses MLC and resulting messed up life. I have been feeling the same way lately. Sitting from the vantage point I now have of looking at all that has happened to me this past year and a half I am now coming to the conclusion my wifes MLC and resulting wreckage has forced me to really look at life in a different way.I have come to the conclusion that life is telling me I need to go in a new direction with positive goals.Go forward in a new direction and let leave your spouses MLC behind. If he gets back into reality he can catch up, if not it is not your problem.

hey hi -

boy- wreckage is really the right word. i know - it sure is nothing i ever saw coming. I guess life is sending me a big ole message too. not only do i see it all differently- i think i'm becoming a different person. fighting negativity t ho.

i've lost important folks in my life in past few years. it gums me up- thinking maybe a lousy r for the time being is better than none at all. too much lonliness around me- watching it up close & personal & feeling it too when he's in fl. i hate it and i know THAT much.

he's being mr. really nice when he's around??!! - i'm in no place mentally or emotionally to make any big moves. I've been sayin that for three years - life's been too demanding on several fronts- for me to cut & run. I need the "security" - whatever the heck that means. i know...

i'm tryin to get a life more- doin more, goin more, keepin an eye open for my new direction.

you've had some journey - just lookin at your little history. sorry man-

But you're sounding very motivated today - i look forward to feelin it sometime (before i croak i hope). (being ready to blast out of here). i'm just not there-

thanks for sharing.

xxo

Nero - I get that we fear loneliness. We are social animals, but i also believe we are beings who need to make our soul, and that we do alone. It is a long slow quiet process, a bit like germination.

I understand that you do not want changes, and that your h is being nice to you. Give yourself a break for now, but loneliness is what we work through in order to be able to be alone and free, truly free, when we do not need anyone else to complete us.

It isn't the same as pushing people away, or refusing to engage. Living alone and liking it is so hard initially, and then suddenly it becomes delightful. It stops being a burden and becomes a blessing.

We choose who we wish to have in our delightful space.

I find it terrifying that some people measure themselves by how many fb friends they have.

Hi Nero,

I think you are suffering what we all suffer from including myself, PROCRASTINATION. Its an easy trap to fall into and a hard one to get out of. Do you see a counselor? If you do, are they solutions based or a more typical counselor? I have a typical counselor right now. I now know that rehashing the past is not getting me closer to a better future. I am looking for a solutions based counselor who will focus on the present issues and finding solutions. If you keep hanging onto the comfort of the past you won't find the drive to move forward into a better place.

imo, you are mourning the relationship and you are working towards closure. You have many emotions hitting at once and it is exhausting. At least, that was my experience and I see this in you.. It takes time and perseverance. Don' t be afraid to get help when needed. don' t be hard on yourself. You are doing great and you will make it. It hurts and it is very difficult but we all get through it and then look back with admiration for making it this far...

Even today, I am sure you could say those words with knowledge that it will only get better... Isn' t easier then bd?? Haven' t you made progress already? Keep at it Nero and we are here for you !! xoxox:)

hey hi-

I know what you are saying (i'm havin trouble sorting thru allllllll of everything in life and getting to the bottom - some resolution or resignation or ANSWER) i HAVE always treasured my solitude and alone-time alot. (why i understood h wanting some alone-ness too) (he was raised totally alone- all the time- ALLL ALONE) SO to him- that's probably more "naturral" way to be.

I was raised in a nutty house full of people- i scrounged around for a little privacy and loved it - BUT you could always walk into the kitchen and find people to goof around with.

Quote:

It isn't the same as pushing people away, or refusing to engage. Living alone and liking it is so hard initially, and then suddenly it becomes delightful. It stops being a burden and becomes a blessing.

I am 50-50 on this. When i find myself too complascent alone - i fight it- the preferring to be alone. I begin to feel selfish and like it will make me be come rigid, and wanting my own way alll the time. no kidding- i do see it in me sometimes) Having people around, to have to get along with, moderates that - even in day to day life- i don't want to be someone that 'CAN'T function with others in a household - it's keeps me flexible and willing to let the other guy "live" too. kind of thing- i can see change in me- my mom and everyone i know is getting/got more "inflexible" in our oldish age - (i'm 63) - i want to fight it all the way.

I'd just prefer to have it all. (oh cripes - i sound like my h - saying he "could have it all"- see, this is what being by self too much is doing to me) (that darn human nature) I like it when I want it- and i don't want it when i don't. (if this was just about me) I know we don't get everything we want all the time - however - - - I am feeling like it's being shoved on me a bit much.` (it got to be controlling me rather than me controlling it) (I am less nice about things being rammed down my throat. my scrappy side appears and says - "HEY - Knock it off you jerk!") I started this all - the two houses - tho, in all honesty- when i did, i really needed to get some space of my own. it has backfired most stupendouusly - and then of course- lots of junk has happened in last several years that has changed EVERYTHING in the world.

i'm not takin responsibility for alll of it- i'm just part of the mix - it's all mashed into our faces tho- no escaping real life - sheesh...

I am a different person now (beg.2008 - change central) from participating & looking so closeup at other people winding out their life's end (last five years or so) - my sister was only 57 - my mom 89, h's dad 84, his step mom 83, his aunt 89 - self inflicted & not. I can't shut off the compassion because someone "brought it on themselves" - i can't even bring myself to say it. how self-righteous can people be? nobody "deserves" to suffer - it may be part of life- but "deserve" lonliness? pain, fear? unhappiness, illness - no way man- i'm thinking we're all just human being doing the best we can- who among us is completely addiction free? (addicted to "love" (me) - addicted to cigarettes? alcohol? coffee? work?you name it - we allll have something (imho)

I'm sorting thru me, people, life & trying to figure something out here - oh geeez -

(made me think of H saying a couple times he's "teaching me a lesson" - who in the world says stuff like THAT? it's insane - what does it mean - i don't even know what the heck he's trying to "teach me" - no clear explanation - i sure don't think i'm "learning" it- . ) what is going on in his head - he can't articulate my transgression - him being the "teacher"??? A bit too much self-appreciation there? or what

I am gettin tossed around here - life, people, reality- tragedy- their "stuff" on my (used to be placid ) little lake of life - me in my little boat wondering wtf... most of the time.

- I am a guy that is all "out there" - almost any one is welcome into my life, house, stuff, thoughts, soul- it's not locked up tight down inside. and you know what - and welcome to it. I don't have or want secrets and intrigue. It's not that i think people really care all that much about my secrets or anyone's but their own. But i don't care anyway- i'd rather just be me, with all of my "selfness?" or "junk" on the surface. not boiling beneath and out of sight. we've all got it all - I'm like my garden - a huge colorful giant mess all blooming like mad next to a busy street - no color coordination here - giant blobs of this and that all mixed up - up there in the sun, right on top of the stems and leaves and dirt. Everyone can see it and welcome to it if you are interested - and pick a bouquet to take home - it's fine with me. . - that's my "life".

did that make sense? i wanna feel free to be just who i am. I'm becoming seriously bummed by getting negative feedback & junk and the info that i need to force myself into some other molds to please others. (who find me "inconvenient?" at present. ) i'm not sure what it is-

H is like when you get down below the flower tops - to the soil - it's dark and hidden - (and full of worms and icky stuff) maybe that is all crucial - idk it's alllllll locked up tight & hidden , strictly doled out and kept under lock and key. he has trouble "sharing" his lair, his insides, his feelings. me, if you don't TELL ME, i don't know. (well, i used to intuit stuff with people - now, i'm done reading minds).

I can be okay with the person inside of me- cheesy as it sounds, she does try and do the right thing - and she does find purpose in helping or caring for others. It's not just that i want to be anyone's "savior" - it's what people are supposed to be - help each other if you can-

i just do measure who i am a bit, by what and who is going on around me - and my "place" in that mix. it adds waaay more dimension to my life - just "all about me" gets mighty boring. this isn't what you're saying - is it?

it's hard to explain- i get lost and tangled up (i'm sure you can tell huh?) . i am fighting hard to maintain self here - it's not good enough to be self alone (IT'S easy to be self when no one else has to be considered) BUT - it's being self IN THE MIX. i can , i feel, manage to still be cognizant of others and all this "stuff" with h and everyone - and be me too - one doesn't have to exclude the others -

that being said - (i think that's h's mlc in a nutshell? he thinks in order to be HIM, he's got to NOT BE what he was to or with me? kind of thing- did that make sense? he thinks he's got to be a "loner" to be him- but he doesn't see he is an amazingly "attached" person and neeeeeeds others more than me even. (kind of thing) he fights attachment tho- just can't bring himself to dive in - always been so. maybe it is him and i'm not letting him just be that? al though -he picked me and spent almost 40 years immersed in me-land??? wtf....

why in the world does being attached to someone in a sigfnificant way - necessarily mean you lose who you are? there's room for both - right?-

so, do i just sound like a rambling nutball here? wierdly enough- i feel like a "strong" person and that I am who and what i am without the need for anhyone to give me permission. YET- i feel stressed about my inability to "get along" with the world these days and i see my inate "crowd pleaser-ness" . i know, opposites

i need to go tidy the house before i explode my own head from over-thinking it all. untidy head, untidy house, untidy r's, etc.....

seeee - my "addiction". when i feel "loved" - i feel like it's allll okay i life and no matter what i am, it's allll okay. when i'm not- then i feel the reverse. what the hck does that make me? narcissistic? masochistic, insecure - i don't even care. i want to feel like me and "even" again- oh yeah- let me throw in- when i'm with someone, spending time- i don't need a cellphone, tv, book, whatever. i can be "there" with them. i'm a bit tired in life of people all jacked around and hooked to technology- where are their minds - who are these people??? the humanity- the contact?

fishout of water? idk- i'm outta here- oddly okay tho- so don't be thinking i'm plunging off some edge this morning. i'm in a oddly not-bad place for all this stinking analysis of me. it's a bore- ? i'm a simple guy wanting the si mple pleasures back- i refuse to accept that this is what the world, r, etc. HAVE TO BE NOW-

TA DA- anyone got a commune going these days???

xx00 - x-flower child- wondering wtf...

I do not understand why people think that being alone is aligned with selfishness, being rigid and wanting your own way.

There is all the difference in the world between people who cannot get along with others, and those who are comfortable to dwell alone. I use dwell rather than live because it is a state of being.

Quote:

why in the world does being attached to someone in a sigfnificant way - necessarily mean you lose who you are? there's room for both - right?-

Of course there is room for both. Having a strong sense of self does not mean selfishness, being attached doesn't mean you lose yourself. I feel there is huge pressure from within and without to be a couple, that it is 'better', that people on their own are not OK - witness your comments about getting rigid and selfish.

Contentment is my goal, not complacency, nor shutting the world out. Just being fine with me.

hey and oh geeez - --------------------------

I wasn't picking on you man- i love you and think your head is totally on straight. i wish i felt more at ease with the "alone forever" thing.

Quote:

I do not understand why people think that being alone is aligned with selfishness, being rigid and wanting your own way.

I never meant to attribute it to EVERYONE - not you certainly- i'm talking about my h and my mom - people i LIVE WITH daily who are very very self-involved, agenda-oriented, no patience with input or anhything less than total admiration of those around them - hard@sses - or so they think (seemingly) and it is allllll about them having their own way- no kidding. heads will roll if anyone messes with their agenda(disagrees, points out other side or why we should see the upside - god forbid you get between them and their misery-fest) - me - this woman would be the happy little dogsbody trying to make them happy (past me- but memory warm) . impossible-

and they both became and become more of that daily- no kidding - no look at self and say : do i relly care so much that i have to be sooooooo bickerie and soooo inflexible allll the time??? th eir response (i've learned lately) is fight first - kill the opponent - and then you can always go back and give them a nice burial and make it up-

but at all cost - they must prevail - lately i just say- stop- you win, whatever it is - you're the winner - i conc3de victory- i gotta go..... it's wierdly working with h - he fancies himself more "reasonable" than average person - (?) - whatever it is, maybe he begins to realize he's goin nuts over something neither of us give a darn about??? idk..

it's my neurosis - WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT IS the women around me- my sisters, mother & friends - to my intense - (too intense) sitch of helping my mom and being her sole means of company & friendship for past five or so years as she got sadder and madder about being old and sick and so forth. life isn't fair and it's one thing for me to say it or think it- saying it to someone 89, husband died too darn young, kids drove her nuts a bit (some of them) , under educated, ratty jobs, etc. i can point out the good stuff til i'm blue in the face. if she was bitter a bit (to me- total honesty. to the world- sweet serent nice old lady???!!1 wtf - i guess it HAD to go somewhere) - the bitterness & hard feelings? no kidding everyone that met her loved her- problem was she felt free to be "perfectly honest" to me- complementary? not so much -

who needs to know those inner grudges and thoughts of their mom. ??? i'm askin ya- i'm flattened still by it all....

SO - THAT'S WHY i'm totally "slanted" that way in my attitudes.

it was soooo sad and the more "rigid" she became - the less everyone came around (my other sisters) and like, they thought that was somehow "okay". in life maybe avoiding friends that get "hard" to be with is alright- but your sick ancient motehr- i'm sorry and judgement here - but dig deeper man, do the "right thing". they sure all have their hands out now and want more - no kidding. SHE "SAVED " them all in a variety of ways when they were needy and the payback is - what? they're 'ENTITLED" - where the heck were they when she needed "more" and they were "too busy" all the t ime.????

yeah, i know, i'm workin on not carrying this junk around and just letting past go- need one bit more time and this estate to be done for that i think.

that being said- my older sister- she gets more and more "rigid" as the years go by. she was here with my great neice - we had a good visit- BUT when the kid is with both of us- she mimics my sister's (uh hem) "attitudes" (it's sad) - for example. i'd sent her a little skirt covered with purple sequins (her fav.color and when i'm down tehre first thing she does is put on a ballerina skirt and an elastic strip of sequin trim (for a bra) and dance around wildly. she looooves shiney things and dressing up. so we're sitting there with my sister and i asked if my package got there and if she liked the skirt and poor little things says (no kidding) ; "yes, but it's a bit - auhhh - "shiny"... (she's side glancing at my sister - ) i know this child- that's my sister's big fat old (tasteful???) attitude. she just lays it on her own adult children and we all roll our eyes behind her head - BUT - it sinks in. it stifles your own little child love of whatever, color, sequins- freedom, pleasure- who the heck is judging a 4 year old? (oh yeah- she is....) poor taste, can't have that, flashy , an't have that...etc. eeeeeek -

idk- can remember my neice at 12 , learned to use my -sewing machine - made herself the most adorable a-line dress - picked the fabric (pink and purple flowery) it was the cutest thing you ever saw - her in that dress and so proud- wore it home and her mother and sister turned their noses up and she never wore it again. no kidding - a seemingly small thing- i can remember how crestfallen she was- (they made fun) so her doofis old mother couldn't even squelch her stupid (what she thinks of as her "good taste" ) for long enough to allow the kid the pleasure opf her accomplishment- make her feel good about it) - like, who in the world is watching what a kid wears anyway???j

tht's what i mean, and it's getting worse by the year. she feels COMPELLED to share her "just being honest" with everyone- and it's never good news. no kidding- old people (some, ever notice) think if they say anyting good whatr? hyou'll go rob a bank out of euphoria??? it's alllll got to be bad news, adminishment, criticize - your hair, voice, name it.

oh geeeeez - i forgot - i don't think for the past 20 years i've ever been in the same room with my mother that when i talked with whoever it was my mother didn't feel compelled to chime in with "could you lower your voice"? and "isn't she loud" - talk about ALWAYS having to let you have it and make sure you know who's alpha dog....

and ya wonder how you become a nutball??? i may be loud- but i everybody likes me well enough- she used me as her "draw" for people- then that...

i know it's hard getting old- i can cut her a break- but i saw how it went with her- see my sister, some of my friends, the more they "have their way" the more theY HAVE TO HAVE THEIR WAY.

I JUST don't want to be that- just in case i have those genes- what if i get allllll (about me) and gotta criticize and so on.

so- just a "thing" with me- watching self for signs of what my mother was - her mother - tough women who gotta be tough (so they think) and let the world know- allll the time-

so of course, it follows that no one else can be less than totally tough. once my mo tehr told me she thought i'd die when she did? can ya imaginme- what an ego- that i'd fall apart and when the time came i would have to "let her go". like you can stop someone from dying - and like i'm some jellyfish that neeeeedddddded her....

people are so weierd- and life is so wierd.-

and i want to bake muffins, have rosey cheeks like baked apples and make everyone feel good about who they are- and feel treasured for their kinks and quirks that make them them.

that sort of thing- i got alot of baggage allover the place- don't I.

aren'tja glad you don't live in my head???

okay- out the garden- my tomatos are flopping alloverthe place and i'm gonnaspread that last mulch bag rite now or die.

i aspire to happy & secure by my self- i'm workin on it and thanks for your thoughts- it's good stuff to hear that someone you like feels okay- and it makes it feel "doable" . you know me- work in progress.

oh yeah- for got to throw in -
xxoo

hi anyone-

i'm thinking over what bea said about people measuring happiness or "self" by amount of friends. i don't do that, btw. i've always been (surprise, surprise) a kind of "loner" sort of person (in a house FULL of people) that had friends, but liked a good deal of alone time and really, at the end of the day, keep my own counsel & don't need the approval of others. you know, for some reason, even in highschool I could wear something kind of out there and buck the fashion trend. maybe because i had red hair which was not a cool thing at at all- i was already "different" in a major way- and somehow got to embrace it rather than feel left out be cause of it? idk-

i just don't like the thought that nobody cares if i come home at nite- no one is there to even miss me if i get abducted by aliens.

it sounds so small and cheesy- but there you are. me - pretty humble needs in life- i don't need a yacht and devoted slave- i'd like to share my existence with someone that i matter to, and matters to me.

it seems so small a request - and soooo large a thing.

So here i am in fl. h is saying he's ready to do some repairs and rennovation around th4e house and yard. i could faint- we've lived here 38 yrs and it's still same mostly as when we walked in the door.

i can't figure out what the heck all of a sudden, unless it's allll tht $$ he inherited. my ratty side says he's doing it to impress whoever it ishe drags over here when i'm away. yes, i know he does. i hate it, what else is new huh?

he asks me opinions and about it and is including me- i don't know about that either. i am suspicious now of everyting. i'm cool and do n't comment on that out loud- just think it inside.

it's a terrible thing they do to our trust and heart & brain, isn't it???

inever was a suspicious person. even nice things i see as very suspicious.

oh well- now i don't remember why im here. just checkin in i guess-

i honestly think rite now i just say the same old junk over and over like a broken record. i have to quit it- i'm boring even myself here. i think why would i even want to "talk" about it all- last four or five years of misery. it's all crappola now and wanter under the bridge.

it matters & i'm changed a bit- but why relive it at all. i am suspicious and don't think the best of h anymore. don't know where it will land, don't even know where he's heading - if anywhere. or me for that matter.

being away from nj is feeling very good- turn off brain to all tht junk- estate- hard feelings, etc.

letting go of alot of baggage i think(hope) -

it's sure all done and over and un-re-doable so now, why even give it air time?

me "detaching" - i hope a bit (more). slow boat to china here-

xxo hope yall have a nice day -

Hi Nero,

You are walking a very delicate path and need to just stay on your toes. You seem to have developed a very strange friendship bond with your Xh, and he seems to be content with that. If you are as well, then happy sailing, but you have to be sure and let the things he does in his life on the side, not be an issue. If your not than your putting yourself in the constant mix of being privy to his life, and that can be a life long of pain for you. It's a touch choice, but you can't continue to dangle indecisive.

I wish you all the best, your such a strong women. You can do this, whatever you decide.and, be comfortable with your decision. You only have to answer to yourself.

I'm doing great. I have finished my first semester and am off soon for my visit per our last conversation. I will keep you informed.

My best, DM

hey hi-

soo good to hear from you and i'm soo glad you're doing great. hope visit is great. i've been short of alone time when i remember to go to forum and/or feel free to be spilling my guts here. it's okay tho

i hear you- and you're rite. it's less painful - it's not something i'm "neutral" about.

i don't like how i'm living- i amnot in a position to provide myself with something "better". believe me when i tellyou that.

it's a tradeoff i guess. am keeping busy- am feeling a bit creative and even working in gardens - here and there- so better in the way of not just being a dead carcass on the side of the road (as i have been for last few years).

so anyway- idk what's going on. something is- something with him- i'm sick of waiting tho. i'm tryin to be patient, keep my peace and no "talks". i find there's nothing for me to say anyway- that i haven't already (unless i get to the drop dead- i'm outta here) place...

so - my usual i guess- need to get this estate rolling and housese sold- shore is lagging these last five years or so - home shouldn't be too bad- if we could get going. waiting for one sister to have six months in at her new job to see if she can get financing... then we'll know what we're doing.

just taken a few weeks off- nominding out- playing with neices babies and trying like mad to not think about it. (my sisters areall in their armchairs calling with advices, directions, etc. what a bunch of yentas...)

anyway- alive- okay- ten pounds or so heavier and not happy about it. walking again th0, gonna go garden & sweat it oout in a minute- one minute of aloneness .

i dont' know what it is I want dawn. I can see the benefits of my current life - i can see the deficit - then i get to the place where i begin (as usual) to say to self - (a lifetime habit) who says everyone gets evrything they want? if you've got a life tht's better than most you see around you- who are you to want "perfections", maybe this is just what it's gonna be, etc.

i9t's either defeatist , or maybe it's realistic , or maybe it's procrastination, or lazy m, or wise?

who the heck knows. so, i'm gonna go work like mad, make myself exhausted and worry about it tomorrow-

yeah- i know - wtf???

xxoo

ps -i have no idea what the heck h is up to? or why. the nice little trips (3)!!, being pleasant, thiking of doing some work around this house which is sooooo very overdue- even asking an opinion or two about it? i'm suspicious, if i'm honest. why spruce it up now? well, it does need it and he inherited a giant ton of $$, but is it for him, someone else? me? wtf??? my usual crappola $hit tornado of a life, but no one actually screaming at me today (yet -f ingers crossed) i wonder if i'll just ever see my family again after this estate is done- what a bunch of selfish jerks huh? - like they act like nothing they ever said happened- and what? i just forgot how rotten they were? because i'm being courteous and civil - oiy... will be glad when it's all over and done - nobody will find me pursuing them.

xxo man

hi anyone-

just reporting in. been busy as heck lately - changed places to fla for a month or so- pick up neices kids in afternoons- we "play" and sweat alot- it's hot as hell here. but house has central a/c so can always just stay in. reverse cabin-fever.

i like not being alone allll the time. h is being pleasant and fun- idk why??/ i don't like to notice about self that i'm suspicious and always assume the worst and that he is lyhing about everything in the universe. no kidding- oh well, i guess that's what liars inspire in the rest of us- no darn trust.

i'm interested to note it doesn't make me feel 'sick" - i am more neutral about it "detachment"???? we wonder.

i feel "outide" of him and his life and sitch- i'm not sure where i fit in here in his life- don't care enough to ask tho. just havin my own life, painting a bit, playw ith the kids, visit friends, goof off in general - - he's playin tennis and doing what he does- workin out, etc. it's a bit wierd to feel all objective here. i feel badly that i am that objective- but then, it's nice to not feel all hurt and invested. i honestly don't know what i think about this guy and this life. it's not my ideal- it's okay for the moment since i don't have anhythin better to be doing and anyone better to be doin it with.

goin with it-

it's nice to be away from nj and the stress of the estate stuff and my sisters and their bunches of drama and feuding.

so that's pleasant- brain shut off- well, except for important stuff like jerking around in the spa or baby pool with two tiny kids- painting stuff and our nails and polish alllover creation - playign dressups - eating food we shouldn't in places we shouldn't. just goofin around in general- i forget how relaxing kids are when you let go and quit being all "got rules" and adultie. since i'm not their parent and don't HAVE TO - i'm not.

so all in all- nice break. brain on float- i don't have much to say- (whatta surprise huh?) - i guess i'll go take a nap while house is quiet- been gardening ALOT - just feels good to tidy up here a bit too in the gardens. have lots of great plants tht are just overgrown and can't see them- as i dig around- finding all kinds of worthwile bromiliads and things we could actually do some nice landscaping with- when everything that is undesireable gets gone...-

i don't know a thing- hope you're all good. i'm outta here.

Hi Nero

Glad you posted an update and are still kicking around.

Looks like you are taking a much needed break from your day to day life back in nj, and doing some things that you enjoy. I think that's great!! Napping, gardening, pool time, eating forbidden foods in forbidden places... Who wouldn't love that?

I think your objectivity towards your h is pretty normal. You've been at this awhile, he's been gone figuring his stuff out for awhile. Maybe you've slowly been detaching, one bit at at time, without even realizing it.

All part of figuring out what you want out of your life, who you want to be, where you're going.

You sound good, it was nice to hear from you

Hey Nero, my friend. So nice to hear from you. Sounds like you are having a much needed reprieve. Good for you.

You know, sometimes it's ok to just live your life without thinking about everything, ya know? I think we should all do that more often.

Who knows why he is acting as he is? You know what? No expectations....just enjoy it.

I do think you are detaching more and more. It's a good thing.

You get to where you need to be...when you do. Til then, keep on going.

Let me know when you are back up here. Would love to get together. <3

hey hi-

good to hear from you too. it's so pleasant this morning- i know i'll get kids in afternoon- so can enjoy the quiet contrast in morning. we all need it - don't we? the good and the bad.

i find that if i don't think or talk about "it" - it isn't soooo stressful in life. now that my mom isn't around to worry about- another person's life - a person that can't take care of self -

i can't get my brain to get all serious and worried about almost anything. myself included. my non-existent future- but then, hey, isn't that what buddha and EVERYONE says? tomorrow may never come? for the moment anyway (i don't want to get tooo above myself) i am able to just cruise and not think.

as a past , big time- lifetime member of worriers anonymous- it feels nice. i do worry one little bit(ha!) tho that what if it stays and i just give up worrying forever??? what will happen- if i am not "planning" or whatever worrying signifies????

not sure whether to rejoice or begin worrying again. i can't even believe i'm sayin that out loud- worryin about lack of worryin. didhja ever?

me stopping that rite there. interesting thing -last two nites - didn't wake up in middle of nite as usual (brain wanting to worry or sort thru junk - JUNK) - instead WOKE up at about 4:3o a.m. and just told self go back to sleep- can worry in the daylite. and my brain actually listened to me and did. then when day comes - if i'm well rested i can just shove it over and not think about anything for anotehr day. i'm geting alot better at it. hope it sticks when i'm back in nj- i can't even think about that either- just no thinking going on here.

oh well huh? i'll take it. thanks for stopping by- i've been a bum lately about keeping in touch here. i forget how busy life gets when other people are around and in it- much better tho - to be totally distracted and busy and doin what i oughta....

hope you are good too. is your summer going okay and are you enjoying it?

the detachment thing- where does it all lead? where does it all end? can't figure- can't address it - i haven't got a clue "what i want " out of life - i've got a much better idea what i don't want. i'm pretty wide open on what i want it to be. who i wanna be - idk??? i'm pretty sure i'm just gonna be who i am- i do wonder WHERE tho, i have a big urge sometimes to just go find somewhere ELSE - Somewhere lovely or exciting or something like that. there are soooo many charming places in the world to be & see. but i'm pretty darn happy in my own back yard too -. oh well huh? now i'm a charter member of confused but "even" (at the moment anyway) I'm grateful to have the ability to be all zoned out -honestly. see what i mean bout h - and me havin this life that i could not in my wildest dreams afford to provide for myself ?? idk man- .

okay - gonna go sew something or something pleasant and think about it alllll tomorrow (SCARLETT)

XXO AND GLAD TO HEAR YOUR "VOICE"..

HEY HI BACK-

GOOD TO HEAR YOUR VOICE TOO. and glad you're still "out there". i was all on a binge up north and even almost (yeah- so me huh? always "almost" ) picked up the darn phone and told you to come and help me dejunk. it's the mindset - i may be getting it more and more (fingers crossed). not the giant miracle i need - but small steps and "feeling like it" when it comes to loading up and ditching. so i am hopeful about that- i wish i'd paint my attic allll white like the charming pictures in magazines with white beams, etc. who knows, - maybe that will move me to do it???

hope springs eternal here about the junk thing. I DO AGREE WHOLE heartedly about the not thinking thing. i think it's just habit- the continual being aware- being responsible - or feeling responsible (for everyone) and their happiness, running junk thru the brain - . it's insanity really- i can see clearly that i'm not high on anyone elses list - why in the world i would think i have some special "duty" i can't even imagine. but do i have a "theory" about it- nope. that's progress in itself.

can't even cook one up - and that is NOT LIKE ME at all.

i've spent so much time analyzing every stinkin thing - that i think i made myself nuts. so, i'm hopeful that this inability to even get my brain cranked up and running is merely (hopefully) BRAIN taking over and shutting the engine off for awhile (since i'm able.) (savoring the moments of that particluar freedom).

it's a weierd thing - the contrast thing. when i realize sometimes i could be facing "end" of life as i know it- it actually seems very nice at the moment to be in my life and this "don't care" thing is also very nice. to just not really give a damn what happens next. maybe if the only realistic expectations should be of bad things- ya just get to a point of not lookin for trouble and expecting them- just keeping alive and will deal with whatever it is, when it comes.

i think just letting brain float back over last bunch of years - so awful really - but i don't feel the need to "dip back down" into all that" . h , mom, (her really sad-bad last year) dyin finally - allll the terrible feelings that are over; for good - so why even re-inspect them. somtimes it seems like it's our "duty" to keep aware of those bad experiences so we don't ever go there again- but i don't think so, really. (in the end) THAT might be the bad habit bit- reliving bad stuff.

maybe it's just as crucial to any sort of future happiness to let it allll go and be done and over. no more i did this, you did that, etc. or assignment of blame or lable. (a biggie with me). when i really feel that - and i'm not just "sayin it" but feelin it - i have some hope here for my brain just getting rite back to normal sometime and leaving the past in the past. (fingers crossed).

it's become apparent that i have very very little actual control over most of stuff that wigs me out- (and hopefully i'm not dying or anything like that) soooo free for the moment (this very moment that is).

oh well- that big thought wore me out- so i'm back to empty head here- i am not totally sure, but i don't think i have any expectations any more. as long as no one is dying today- or poking me with a sharp stick - i'm good.

hope you're enjoying your summer and you and son are doing well.

xxoo and thanks for checkin in.

Hey my friend. Well, almost calling is better than not thinking of it at all....so, I will take it. LOL!

You know, I have simplified my life a great deal. Come to realize that I dont need things to be happy. Realized, also, that worrying doesnt effect an outcome, so why do it? Most times that mindset works.

I have come into an acceptance of sorts about most things. At least the things I have no control over. Still working on accepting some other stuff.

So, I am at a point where I have to figure out how to live in the moment more. Because that's really where it matters. Be present in the lives of those I care about. I am learning not to worry about what people who arent important in my life have to say. More simplifying, I think.

Control the controllables. The rest, will play out as it does.

I think you are slowly figuring stuff out, Nero. I really do. Figuring out who and what's important. Figuring out that life happens in spite of all our efforts. And that maybe, choosing joy in the little things and being grateful for what we have, and not worrying about what we dont, is what matters.

Hope one day to get that call from you. Even if it is just to hang for a bit.

Hiya -

i'm gonna say up front tht i'm with ya sister about the "simplify" and be grateful thing. maybe add have some (modest) hope about future.

i am grateful for the truly simple tiny little things that seem to really make up my daily life and everyone's for that matter. if I laugh hard with the kids, get some sleep- even take stock daily of my life - which is more privileged than most - and i do know it- and i do appreciate it. (maybe knowing also that that could end any moment- any day- (and likely might) makes it all the more good today. idk- goin with it anyway-

I miss my mom being there- she was my entire life - but i feel the freedom from stress of knowing every day that i was responsible for her and where her memory loss was heading and if she'd make it thru the day okay (a real concern when 89, ill, etc) it's sad - a mixed thing.

i find i do not dread the future- somehow in background of my mind- i assume things "will turn out okay". just on their own- in general. sounds crazy- but i find i still have most of my generally optimistic attitude (at least when i've had sleep) and not really "thinnking" about "it".

believe me when i say- you're not forgotten, i'm just my (lately) unfocused and feeling a bit overwhelmed self- the switching locations & introducing extra people 24-7 always seems "busy' til i adjust. kids are great but wear me completely out - for the day.

just when i'm getting adjusted- it's gonna change next week . i do really not like that aspect of my life.

if i ever could feel comfortable and able to change it- i would. (final decision to live one place or the other- finality of fulltime job- etc.) also if i could figure out - bottom line really - what the heck it is EXACTLY i want and am willing to sacrafice to get it - i'd be doing good.

i think h could go on like this forever - even tho i find that thought impossible to believe. who in their right mind would want it?

as usual- sos with me.I like that you say (very generously) that i am figuring things out and it makes me feel reinforced.

bad news is that what i figure is that i am surrendering the need or supposition that i have to even try to control stuff, h, anything really. i've figured out that the things in life that are the truly important - are beyond my control and even understanding(mostly). And really that i don't have to figure out and analyze - just leave it alone - it's "unfigureable" and if i do not address it- it usually slides by. I am soo better at that all- biting my tongue - not asking - comfortable a bit more with not knowing and not thinking i've got to know and got to be "responsible" and in charge and making decisions and monitoring junk and keeping everyone happy. (me included)

it takes a hell of alot of pressure off ya- knowing you are normal and it's okay not to know. don't mean to sound defeatist - but as tings proceed here - i'd say my current take is that this is "it". as things are- as h is.

i'm not sure what the exact definition of that is. FOR ME - FOR THE MOMENT - as long as i don't have to incorporate a giant change in life rite now (emphasis on rite now) - i can go along with this til i am "fully cooked".

I can see that things are much better than a year or two ago between us- h still has his "moods" and i am not used to that - tho it's waaaaay better than when he was cold and rotten 24-7. i am not "affected" by him so much - i do not care if he's mad or pi$$y - it comes and goes. sometimes he seems normal like old self. of course, ow being "there" in his life somewhere would be the deal breaker ultimately. can't even think about that at the moment.

if i ever heard anything positive from him about r or me , or what i mean to him & his life) (and no-i do not ask, talk about it or go there) i might be able to feel alot for him again. (i'm speculating here) . As it is, i am in neutral and cannot allow self to feel any kind of major affecton for him. I don't feel like i really know him anymore. i am not sure i really like him anymore. he is kind and pleasant mostly- he does not go in for overt affection - i miss it in life. (he was never ever really goopy and affectionate - but waaay more playful & affectionate) believe me. i can see why people get dogs.

i'm croakin here on that count. i have patience- alot of it- but really, i can't imagine if i'll make it "to the end". whatever that will be. oh- i see, whatever comes will and whatever end is going to occur- it will. no real need for me to know or do huh? well yay- because i sure do not.

I probably should do it (get a dog) - but still feel too unstable. i read that average person needs 17 hugs a day- ha! i'd kill for one. oh well huh?.

playing with the kids is great. i feel like an addict (of affection/love) trying to reform. it's hard to let go- this cold turkey (h - ha, get it) (him bein the turkey) is killin me.

you are sounding good - i agree with simplifying. idk why the " junk" seems to symbolize my past life and alll the confusion and madness.

i sure do not need the "things" either. A car that runs is a very very nice thing to have (don't care if it's old or not). and a roof over my head - and I do like the garden too. most of the rest of the "stuff" crucial to anyone's life - i'mnot caring toomuch.

i'm getting so darn good about living in the moment- i'm finding it hard to think forward or backward most days at all. i may be going too far the other way- but i'm not going to worry about THAT - either. it's the worrying that i'mnot worrying enough. wtf???

I am glad for a few friends - it's not quite as satisfying as having your own "mate" in life - but maybe i've been spoiled and i don't get that anymore. my sisters are pretty much all at odds with each other and me.

it's a very "destabilizing" thing- to have your mother die and then realize these people you thought you cared a ton about- and they about you- are actually hostile. that's a tough one. i'm getting better with it tho.

the whole notion that my entire life has changed and is changing - that all the most important people are either dead or going -

workin on it - doing okay in general i'd say. makin today count - afterall - i might be dead tomorrow? rite?

hope any of that made sense- i think overall i'm hanging in there alright. you sound good too- it sure is a day by day thing- life.

xxoo i will really pick up that stupid phone some day. i did say somewhere, didn't I, that i have trouble making plans and commitments? idon't know really what that is-

my horrorscope said it " you need to know you're free at every moment - you don't do anything with that freedom- but you have to know you have it". it was a very astute observation of me personally.

i'll go do tarot cards (bought them for al ark) it's funny- they keep saying "have patience" and so on.

after about three times of advice like that- i decided to read every single card to see if that's what they alllll said. but no, there are others - so who knows??? i'm askin ya-

i believe God can happily coexist with any other God, orn otion of him- and a wholw universe of unseen -unknowable things- maybe even fairies in the garden??? ya gotta wonder

xxoo

one modification- when i say about my mom "she was my entire life" - i mean she was "THERE" MY ENTIRE life, in that house, on that street - like a little rock in her little house- you knew you could phone and find her. the one person in universe that was ...

not that she made up my entire life- sounds creepy when ya read it. i'm not that wierd - thank goodness

Hi anyone-

Just checkin in. Still alive out here - after a month+ together with h in fla & nj. It felt (mostly) nice and like old times somewhat. he is, in life more calm & pleasant & bit more affectionate than past five years (BUT) ow still apparently "there" and it still icks me out..

honestly- i wonder now if it IS mlc (tho he did match up with every single thing mwd described) or if he's a cheating lying rat of a person that i just trusted & loved (too much). i always thought there could not be such a thing as "love too much". could i have been wrong about that & everything forever?

one wonders... it was a nice way to think for 60 years. i am loath to let go of it really. feeling more and more unable to find that other woman i was. fighting negativity - am going with the lesser awful alternative right now - "not caring" about mostly everything. i'm working on brainwashing self- if i say i do not care enough - hopefully i will achieve it. most things= i really don't. is it progress? hope so..... compared to dying any time - it all is so much junk isn't it? the stuff i worry about ...aside from "love" (magical love) - i have most of what i need in life rite now- i'm grateful for that. so I am on cruise - see what future presents.

I am more chilled & "normal"-ish than i have been in years. I think brain and "caring" still in suspension - mom dying, last five years of he!!, family nuts&hostile, etc.

it's okay tho- i hope i am getting used to the idea of whatever is the next big challenge here- getting thru the estate - and then, next thing on my plate(whatever that will be) while i'm getting on with my life in whatever way it's gonna shape up.

mayube it's helpful to me- to have one "project" at a time thing goin on. first it was just not spontaneously dying of grief. i cannot begin to explain the depth & breadth.

then getting me and her thru mom's health, memory problems and last couple lyears of life. long long years - sad sad end. but end it did - as we all must i guess. i'm trying to get philosophical about death. (alot around in last five years).

it does make ya realize it could all be over tomorrow- make today as good as you can - if possible. so i'm workin on that and am likely to keep t his philosophy forever i believe.

Now, oversee mom's estate - disgruntled sisters - hostility leaking out of their eyeballs. who are these people???? i'm appalled by the un-gratitude of these women who are my sisters. I thought we all were a family and loved each other. i am/was wrong as can be. honestly. most appaling polly anna.

it's a major battle to not see everyone alive as criminally self-centered . major battle also to not say it to them - and burn every bridge in sight. I know i need to have connection and "family" (whatever that is) it's kind of meaningless to me at the moment- but i still cling to the hope it means something and in the end there is some pack i belong to. idk tho

then - what??? figure out for good whether to "keep" or "dispose of" my life as it is (was) ??? I feel pleasantly numb (well, not in pain) - and unable & unwilling to decide one darn thing. i don't know any answers here. I don't know one darn thing. except that maybe money really is the root of all evil. what it can inspire in people.

so i'm on cruise (as usual) - signed up to substitute teach again, joined a gym and go in every day, still walk for an hour every day- am on lookout for a couple clubs or something social to go get out even more. I had a great weekend, laughed alot, busy as heck - either perking up in life or shell shock- i'll take it. , i am not sure if i'm still "dbing" as in there's any real hope that this r - whatever it was or is - is supposed to be in my life.

When i began dbing - i was certain he loved me but was too stupid to know. now, idk. maybe he's a person who does not know what it is, how to express it, only room in his heart for himself. as far as a partner - anyone will do that fits bill & accomodates his needs. a very very grim outlook for me- of hinm. But maybe i always saw too much good where there wasn't much - or something like that. can't even judge him - (or me)

Only God knows that one.

I am a woman with an addiction to this guy and what i thought my life was i think. it is an unthinking "need" (my "pack" ) he's all i seem to have at the moment. don't know where it goes or ends - i sure can relate to quitting smoking, or drinking, losing 200 lb, whatever. seems insurmountable - but could be "hurting" you, so need to address it some day. i'm still telling myself i can always walk out tomorrow.

I am truly either a miracle of self-control and fortitude - or a dope. who the heck knows til the "end". mwd sure is right when she said however long it takes (and it could take a long long time) it seems alot longer by far. today- i'd say a million years.

I haven't talked to him in three days-. it's a long long time for us - i wonder why bother to even share my life with someone like him? given this sitch - of his creation - why would he call (i didn't pick up sun.) and why would i talk?

i just have nothing to say to him - so i'm stfu-ing. I can't figure what else to do.

but i'm lots better in every way , i feel - so i guess it's not "bad" . anyone's call.

(do ya ever really really "get over" a broken heart? i know it recedes - does it ever go away- do ya forget? totally? REALLY? THAT IS, if you don't find a perfectly wonderful love to replace it?

i'm outta here. lots to do - as usual I think i'm going to accomplish everything in the world in this day. ta da...

wish me luck and that i find whatever it is i need here... wisdom,? love?, peace of mind (a bit more of that please),

xxo - thanks to all you guys that have been my "lifeline" for so long- . i'm still "workin on it" . on well fall down 23, get up 24

Hey my friend, I have been thinking about you. So glad you stopped in.

You know, Nero, everyone is different. How we handle things, how we walk things. There really is no one size fits all. And that's ok, ya know?

Not making a decision is making one. For right now, yours is to just keep going. One day, you may make a different one. I think you will know when you absolutely need to.

I am so glad you are doing better in a lot of ways.

I dont at all think there is anything wrong with loving deeply or hoping or believing. That's all we really and truly have, I think.

I am sorry about your family. It is a hard, hard thing to get your mind around. Just do the best you can. That's all anyone can expect.

Good for you for joining a gym. I am thinking of joining one, too. I also need to look for more things to do socially. I have been lacking in that area for awhile. You know I am around anytime you want to hang.

I am going with that you have fortitude and strength. The easier thing to do is to walk.

I am thinking he is a combination of who you thought and who he is.

Only you know how much and how long you are willing to accept what is. For right now, you are able to.

I think you are inching along, Nero, to where you want to get to. I think you are starting to see that you want some more in your life. That's always a good thing.

One day the answers will come. When you are ready to hear them. Until then, just keep going.

xoxoxo

Hey Hi-

I love your notes. you're are who i was/am thinking of when i say and think that coming here to forum - i can get that little arm over the shoulder and someone to say - it'll be okay - you're okay. you can do this, and are in fact "doing this". MLC can make ya feel a bit crazy now and then; i know i've said this a million times.

it's just sooooo much effort - for soooooo little return (on a daily basis) who the heck knows whether or not it will even be worth allllll of "this" in the end? nobody- sheesh!!! I lose patience- then tell myself- (what else?) one more day , you can always walk out tomorrow..\

I'm fighting like heck the notion that love doesn't matter - and isn't EVER true and forever, etc. sounds like cinderella - but i always believed love could conquer all. i find most of all - i hate losing that belief and outlook. it's soo hard to find and such worth treasuring. for me anyway - this guy's mlc is asking me to lose a very important part of my en tire mentality here. i don't want to stop believing.

I do also believe in "fighting the good fight" in life. that some things are too important to just run from. my mom - him - it's all tangled up together. doing the right thing for the right reason. it's allll in the "intention" isn't it?

you are really a good person to bother with the junk of others as you do. . And i think you are right - that he is a combination of what he was and is now. problem is this - i cannot abide the notion that he was always (always)(possibly-probably) a cheating lying guy. he says not- i find it impossible to believe. (now that i know he's a liar) what could or would i ever believe again???

it's sad - but his need to absolve himself and fess up to a "flirtation" with this ow 20+ years ago- has ruined my entire notion of our entire past. any time i wondered wtf about something for our entire life - i now attribute to her/him-"it". oh well huh?

can a girl get beyond that (enough?) we'll see.

My response to my blind trust is to think that he always was a rat and i was a deluded jerk. as in "make yourself a lamb and the wolf is ready". (current outlook )

the gym thing is interesting- and of course, there are people there so it's "out of the house". here's what i know for my area in nj- best deal is NYSC -(maybe there's one by you?) the cost is a bit less than the others around, AND - every single time i go, i can bring another person. every time!!! so that's like two for the price of one membership-. which is a truly great deal. that and for a minimal extra fee up front - you can join with ability to quit any time (for another small fee goin out) rather than HAVE TO sign up for a year and have payment taken automatically for a whole year - no matter what. h was motivating force & pays. maybe by my self i wouldn't think i should spend the $$. i am soooo constantly aware that my fortunes may change any moment- and i will be plunged in to poverty. big time. just being honest here. (of course, on the other hand, it's become abundantly clear in last five years that i could also be dead tomorrow- so why the heck am i soooo cautious of everything?

ta da- i am sore - but it feels good, maybe i can tone up a bit and lose a couple lbs. i put on some this past year- i find that (in a small way) i do tend to"reward" myself for being miserable - and grab a cookie or sweet when i'm glum. how gross huh? and i even recognize it while i'm doing it- then i shove it in and say wtf.... still walking tho. both just get my mind occupied with something other than myself - (it's the continual counting, reps, crunch stomach while i walk, etc.) like meditating i think - onward &upward huhj?

Anyway- thanks also for vote of confidence. I go around thinking i have fortitude - and i do think this is hard.

Idk if leaving is "easier". like goat girl- i fear quitting when there may be hope, or "giving up" before it is absolutely "the end of hope" - and whatever the heck else she fears. it's being alone alot too- unflattering - but there you have it. I look at my sisters - three divorced & alone & poor & unhappy and screwed up by it. my mom all alone since 1969 - 45 years allllll by herself raising us all. it's not nice or fun. everything is doable and sometimes funny with a buddy- and pretty scary alone.

I still "need" thinking i have someone there - even if it's an inadequate r. notice i said (thinking) i have someone there. i am not so sure what i have these days. i guess i still think it's better than no thing at all.

oiy!!!!! okay- rite now i am going to list a couple things on ebay and then go in the stinkin attic and find a giant mountain of something - and take it to goodwill before i stop to think. somehow "the stuff" has come to represent a big stumbling block for me- (wierdly) i think if i could somehow de-junk i'll be happier in mind and body. lots to put on a bunch of good old stuff. we'll see. i guess i'd like to think it's that easy. clean table top - clean mind.

i meant to not rant / haven't allowed self to talk about it or think much for that matter. i'm happier daily if i don't even acknowledge "it" - my f'd up l ife. who says we can't hide our heads in the sand? until you're sure your butt is actually on fire up there- it seems to help.

ta da- still on the road here...

okay- i'm outta here - and as usual - thanks so much.

xxo it makes a huge difference to know you're out there.

hi anyone-

just ch ecking in and sayin hello. Still alive and kicking here. Working, doing stuff for/with my mom's estate, keeping busy, workin out & walkin still, gardening, painting, pretty much normal old life. h still comes and goes. have taken three or four nice little trips over summer & last week. why he's "trying" to do nice things , idk - guilt probbly.

I'd think he thinks he's throwing me a bone. i AM (I THINK- i hope) pleasant and neutral. I do know that he tries to "buy me" or "buy his way out of guilt" with nice trips or work or things - .... idk what to think about it- so pretty much I don't. just living rite in this minute . too much other junk before and after to be able to go back or forward. t hat's okay too i guess at this minute. .

his interactions are more pleasant and even, sometimes, unconscioyusly more affectionate - fiddling with my hair while we're wtching tv, a touch here or there. I don't particularly think it "means" anything. ow is still there - i do not have any particular expectations or agenda. I don't (if i'm honest) think there is any hope we will ever go back to being what we were when we were happy. I do not honestly know what will become of this R at all; Or if we have one at all - or what it is. I am just rolling with the punches (as usual) I know i must be the most frustrating person alive to alot of you action-oriented people - - - oh well. so me - prudent to the last...

but i'm not SAD, so even if i'm not particulary big old HAPPY, I'M NOT un-happy (in a big way) so - 'll take it.

Anyway- so that is me for the moment. I get mad, i divert my attention. I stfu - i think i'm peaceful - but do stand up for self now or then. all pretty much okay at present.

my contact with sisters has been small- so that's really nice. h was here past t hree weeks (unusual- for awhile it's been here only 1 week & gone 3) . i'm not attaching any importance to it- as usual, i'd say guilt over something he's planning down there. aside from just now- i am better adn better at not even thinnking about what he's doing - i feel bad to think he's slipping out of my life (entirely? (maybe). it may make it less painful- but it's too bad in a global kind of way.

I stay off thinking about that- bums me out. i'm getting good at my own mind-control. ACCEPTANCE??? I do think i'm more and more accepting - that whatever we had is gone forever. and nothing may replace it

oh well- i got nothin really- just wanted to say hi and doing okay and keeping busy and so on.

hope everyone out there is plugging along okay as well

xxoo

I'm getting quite good at "living in the present". I

hey Nero, so glad you posted. I have been thinking of you. Happy you are doing well.

We all walk this in our own way, my friend. There is no right or wrong way to do it. You are doing it in the way that is best for you. When it isnt anymore, you will do something different.

I am glad that you are finding some joy again in doing the things you enjoy and that your contact with your sisters are minimal for now.

May I ask how you know the ow is still around?

I do hope one day we can get together again. I would really love that.

Take care.

Hey Nero,

If not for the mention of OW in your post above, I'd say that H is missing you a teensy bit. Or at least testing the waters.

Even with OW still in the picture, it sounds like he might be anyway.

Glad to hear you're doing as well as you are.

I like that "Not particularly big old HAPPY, but not UN-happy."
That's the best we can hope for at the moment. And that's life.
Mostly just okay... with some big old moments of happy and unhappy thrown in there to keep things balanced.

---(G)GGG

Nero, I love you to bits, but you are the Queen of Mind Reading when it comes to your H. Did it ever occur to you that maybe he is NOT trying to "buy his way out of guilt"? Touching you, and taking you on trips, and playing with your hair sounds more like personal affection towards YOU Nero, not like guilt. Wouldn't you think that if he was just feeling guilty, he would just pay your bills but not touch you? And are you SURE that he is still seeing OW?

Believe me, my ex did not touch me for YEARS before our divorce, the only trips we went on were unavoidable family stuff, not fun stuff with just the two of us, and he talked incessantly about the Russian. Just sayin......

How is your niece, and how is the probate coming along? Has your sister taken out a mortgage so she can buy the rest of you guys out of your mom's house? Hang in there, and remember, UR and I are both just a phone call away, and would both love to see you again

hey hi-

I some how lost my hotmail account- cannot find myself and can't figure out why my password doesn't work. idk- i guess i need to go somewhere someday and make a new account for private chats.

Yeah- i guess you're rite about me and the "mind reading". what the heck does one do for " input" when he can't seem to open his mouth and just talk. (in any way about anything meaningful)

i've thought maybe it's authentic- the affection. But then, That's the kind of assumptiopn i'd make in the passt; optimistic - but ya know, it would mean i had "expectations" or thinking i "knew" him.I don't anyu more. It's the constant lack of any meaningful communication in life with him- it' wears me out, so i'm done wondering. honest - if he has xsomething to say that will change something or mean something to me- he can just spit it out. i can't make any positive assumptions anymore.

I am not rotten or rude- but i cannot bring myself to initiate anything. he's the guy that said he wants less of me in his life- im the guy who is what i was.

he does see her- i do know it. he is "having it all" . his words (said a long while ago- but no retractions around)it's icky and wierd- hanging around me- seeing her (& whoever else?) idk linda- it's icky if you ask me.

so- for want of someone or something better to do- i'm just here. the estate is ongoing- need to get this house cleared out & listed for sale and the shore house relisted with a new agent. i can't see either thing "over" real soon. i can't deal with a huge change if i don 't have to. (he's always got the option to force me to- idk why he doesn't) i'm grateful i don't have to go it alone just yet. i know i've said that for the past few years- it's just still true. unless it's shoved down my throat- i'll just stick here til i've got a new plan or something new going on.

you may be right about him and his "guilt", or lack there of . who the heck knows? i doubt i'm "doin him wrong". it's just my opinion - i'm not expending much brain power about this if possible. i haven't spoken about it in ages - it just puts me in a bad mood and brins up bad old feelings. why do it tomyself- relive over and over such a terrible time.

idk what the heck i'm doing- as usual- but im workin and keepin busy and creative more than last few yuears - so glad of it.

good to hear your voice. i think i've got a pinched nerve in neck perhaps- need to get the heating pad out and put it on my ear/neck ,

helping with a girlscount halloween party tomorrow - shoudl be funny or fun - maybe a glass of wine (just saw someone on tv pouring it) i'm in a funny kind of mood- but not pissed off or so on, so i'll take it.

some kidn of improvement - no???? your h sounds like he's really "out there" poor man. you sound good. Are ya?

i hope so- xxoo
-

hey hi-

I didn't see your post last nite- I had worked and it was middle school - da da dummmmmmm....... those kids, they are a real challenge. i do realize, i'd guess, that because i'm a substitute they feel compelled to flex their - uh hem - m uscles and be obnoxious. most are nice kids - some feel so bad about the jerks they apologize going out for the extremists bad behavior. I feel bad that they think it may hurt my feelings. (it rolls rite off me) but it's nice to know most are decent little human beings in tehre. I wonder how the wild ones got to be soooo obnoxious & needy- makes me feel sorry for them. I have no desire to save anyone- it's so peculiar- these awful little guys will greet me in hallway like i'm a long lost friend- wtf??? i'm thinking they're a wild animal- and they're thinking we're buddies???!!! oh well- it's interesting for sure. & ya gotta wonder what their lives and upbringing is like at home???

poor schnooks.....nary a clue bout empathy, manners, courtesy, decorum - how will they go thru life successfully?????? ya gotta wonder

anyway- ow. Under the heading of following mwd "rule" that if you've said it once, assume they know and don't "hammer away". I have expressed in past my feelings about the whole sitch. I've said that i hate it when he's with her. I do hate it -...& hate knowing it- he does not respond - he does not say he's NOT with her. he is, and he knows perfectly well how i feel, how it impacts me and what i think of him as a result and any "life" we might have "together" (if there is an official "together" of any sort now or ever) he has nothing meaningful to say about it. I think that "says" alot.

he does not call when he's with her- he knows if he's calling me on his cellphone - i know. it's a fact - uncontrovertable.

he gets excited when he's going to see her- i can sense his (what? happiness? ) in his voice - it used to hurt me- i'm rather numbed-out - however, it's sad and i wish i didn't know it- but i can tell. He calls me multiple times in the day or two before they are to meet up - i swear to you, i do not think he's even aware of his own "attitudes" and what he conveys (if he did, surely he'd disguise it better?? you'd think, wouldn't you?). he's like a selfish little baby- totally self-immersed and sooo either unaware or uncaring of the world & people around him . I only say unaware to be charitable - But it's so. He is pleasant and chatty - unusually so. I want to not pick up - or want to just say "f you" and hang up. I don't - i FORCE myself to think of mwd saying keep neutral, pleasant, etc. BE WHO YOU ARE/WERE. I think i ram it down my own throat believing it's the only way to finally get to a point of overkill and certainty about blowing him out the old airlock (if it's gonna happen). know what i mean? some wierd duty to endure - even when you think you don't want to keep on being it- doing it. (neurosis? db? idk)

It is not my imagination EITHER - believe me. Inside i reckon if he's that "exuberant" at the thought of seeing her (it's been years since i've felt it directed to me) - that's sad too!) and i can hear his "happiness" in his voice (once- at the very very very beginning - i heard his voice while he chatting on phone with his cousin- i didn't know then he was planning to go boink her- but i did hear his voice and my gut KNEW THAT this was something extraordinary going on- with him and his level of interest) boy, was my gut correct.... I di dn't go bizerk then, just like i can't seem to go bizerk now- idk about that either...

so- believe me when i tell you, i'm sorry that i do know him sooooo well.

ON THE OTheR HAND - i hear what you're saying. I think, unfortunately, that the ball is in his court. if we're supposed to "wait them out" - it's what i'm trying to do. IF HE EVEN WONDERS what the heck i'm still doing around- he doesn't ask. he knows i hate it- he knows it hurts me - he knows i don't think i'll do this forever - blah blah blah. i'm assuming he's not as stupid as he acts - who can know tho ??? selfish & stupid, can be pretty darn stupid. can't rule anything out -

i'm not going to run down the giant list of "how i am sure" anynmore - it's making me disgusted and since it's all in there somewhere- this woman does not go spiraling down that road anymore. NO PAST - NO FUTURE- ONLY TODAY.

it's working okay tho- i stay in this day and today there's the girlscout halloween party- it's sunny and chilly and a lovely fall day- last nite was a lovely evening (weather) - my neice & her friends were saying it made their day begin well yesterday , seeing me in a.m. & saying have a great day- aren't the trees lovely? (we bumped into each other by schools yesterday morning as i was heading for the middleschool and they were heading to highschool & the trees were hit by sunlite only on the top third - lighting them up beautifully and were screaming gold & red & orange- which i was looking at and pointed out to them. it was a nice sentiment- i'll take it.-

I do tend to see myself as reflected by people around me. It would seem to be a part of who i am- we all respond happily to favorable input- etc. we all get smashed down by bad. idk- i'm only a person here - I do know my good points - (tho one can never be really sure what the view is like from other perspectives.) I only have to answer to my own conscience rite? I do what i think is "right" & i go to great lengths to not hurt anyone.

TA DA- am i learning my lesson or what? keeping self from "going there" - being hurt - feeling crummie.

sticking with any "feel good things" compliments, good feelings - positive interactions -

I think in my life, my mom and those years, my sister and her alcoholixm and those years, H and this mlc and these years, even school and the insanely ratty kids challenge-

i think my gut says "ya can't run away- you gotta see it thru" kind of thing to me alot with all this stuff . i can't figure why i see these things as a "challenge" that has to be met, seen thru, "conquered" and gotten past rather than just giving up, and running away because it hurts too much. (in general)

my sisters, h, its like this - when the estate is allll settled and i do not have to interact with them for any reason - they can make the first move if they want to be my friend/sister any more. H, i've told him i am not his "buddy" or mother - i'm his mate or i'm nothin. i'm not likely to blow up and end it all- not me at all - BUT , i know when I've been "wronged" and jacked around and it doesn't disappear because i don't hammer away about it.. either the offender can make it "right" - or i'll just go on about my life and wander away at some point to whatever my "new" life is going to be. they can come or stay.

or so i think SOOOOO - is this me just saying the same old junk over and over - ta da..... NO EXTRA CHARGE.

HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY- I'M GO NNA WORK ON THAT TOO

xxoo

HI GOAT GIRL-

THANKS FOR NOTE- i know, we have no real choice but to just keep paddling and float along and exist in the minute if possible.

It's such a stinker that we have soooo little influence and control over the really really important things in life. they just "happen" around us, to us, and at the end of the day- we've got about as much "say" as whether or not that hurricane is going to flatten us or blow on by.

i'm not sure whether it's a good thing or bad. I suppose if we had control over EVERYTHING- the sheer stress of always trying to do "the rite thing" would just kill us outright.

maybe this is better - not to feel like a "victim' of life's troubles , - but to realize it's alllllll just exterior 'stuff", the "way it is" in life, troubles come and go to everyone, us included. it's all in how you handle them?????

man up - ride it out best you can- save self if possible from unnecessary pain - help who you can, when you can- keep paddling, do what's right, listen to your conscience, be kind & have empathy - etc.

so - is that me just washing my hands of "responsibility" or is it all somehow pretty much how it is? (it is how it "seems" to me) (but then, i would say that, wouldn't I?)

confused as usual - but not suffering - so grateful for that.

alive, pretty day, something to do, good health, good friends, not soooo bad...,

you sound pretty good yourself- hope it's going okay for you - dbing. this up and down is a killer - oh well , it all stinks - but might not kill us after all...??? ya think ?????

xxoo

Hope I didnt get you upset by asking the question, Nero. I wasnt at all insinuating that you were imagining it. I was just curious as to how you knew. I get "just knowing".

As I said, we all walk this in our own way and get to where we need to be in our own time.

I also understand the need to see it through. As long as you are ok, that is what matters.

I have told you for a long time that I know you will do something different when you need to do it. I truly believe that.

So, keep walking, my friend. I see big differences in you even in you may not.

I am always praying for you and rooting you on. I hope you know that.

Xoxoxo

ur -

hey hi- nah - you didn't upset me asking- i know it sounds schlockie- but it's true (JUST KNOWING) however - he does not deny she's there and that he goes to see her. i've told him i know - he's told me he goes- we know what the heck each other are up to and what the other guy feels about it. short of him saying she's history - or me delivering an ultimatum - there doesn't seem to be a darn thing to say bout it anymore. maybe someone's got to break this mexican standoff? idk- so far i always mange to bite my tongue and think itys' a better policy - discretion ...

i thank you totally for your faith that i'll do something sometime when it's rite for me (i hope to God you're rite) - and for saying you can see a difference. i think i feel differently on the whole - but feeling more neutral and "detached" about him and "mlc" makes me feel bad also- that he's really not registering in a huge emotonal way. i get that it "saves" us from pain- but on the other hand- isn't it signaling some kind of big ole "end" ... and who the heck DOES KNOW gfor sure when dbing is never gonna work - so throw in the towel man.??? not me so far- i'm like goat girl- always afraid that i'll"quit" one mnth before he has a breakthru kind of thing ... oiy

oh well- i know, so me, always with the "on the one hand-blah blahblah- BUT THEN on the other hand, blah blahb lah" i can drive my own self nuts. is it any wonder that i find it more effective to shut off brain- go stack the darn woodpile or go work or do something useful and not think about it.???

i'm doing great not talking about him and "it" to friends. it bores me even.... such old old news huh?. only time i even say much is here. if i even think about it all - i get myself hipped up- it produces nothing but stress and for what???

ya know, sometimes i don't know what to think anymore about dbing - me, him- "it", etc. i just haven't got an opinion anymore about most stuff. well, ow- got a BIG BIG OPINION ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR THING.

it's been soooo wierd for soooo long- i truly wonder - really when my life was not at all what i thought, how many years i bumbled along blindly- or if it EVER WAS what i thought EVER?? losing faith

PITIFUL - huh? oh well- no body can tell me that but him- and he's really deluded about some stuff. (no kidding- rewritten history- things i know for a fact are totally nutball - ) o h mannnn..... soo, ta da- nowhere on earth to get any answer or "assurance." that's kind of pitiful too huh?

all things being considered - and all these years & dbing i don't actually know or have a really strong opinion about what it is i've "got" here. ?? do you happen to?

things seem a ton better than three or four years ago - as far as how "easy " we are aroudn each other and his level of interaction and (seeming) affection. on the other hand- i'd prefer "more" in life . it may be greedy tho- i'm not sure. who says i get to have exactly what i want when i want it? that's been my stumbling block all along- i'm am azingly grateful all the time and maybe i ask for so little- and usually feel so fortunate - i have trouble being demanding. i wonder if i'll be shooting myself in the foot if i ditch what i've got - even lousy- it's something (as opposed to the huge old NOTHIN & NO-ONE - NOT NO HOW - NOT NO WAY....

- now that my mom is not around - i dont feel obliged to be here- i'm not sure what i want really or where i want it or wh at? i don't think it's an option to live down there with him allll the time. i haven't mentioned or asked that- i just have no juice for heart to heart. i'd rather avoid it too for the moment. geeeez - that sounds rather pitiful too doesn't it.

i thik that will be on my headstone when i die - "i'd rather avoid it (all) at the moment"

no matter what i say- it all sounds kind of crazed out & dreary today-

oh well- i'm tired, spent five or six hrs at mom's house sorting thru junk,e tc.- depressing a bit , buty 've got to get rolling with this. so now- all i have to do is the fifthy three things on my SUNDAY - TO DO LIST.

i GUESS THAT's having an okay life tho, not bored and plenty to do tht wants your attention (purpose?) idk - i'm outta here.

yeah- i figure we'll visit again if i could ever get my act together - be in one place for a while and have my big old "OBLIGATIONS" under control. life still feels wacky a bit with this estate hanging over my head.

doesn't help to think my lazy ole sisters who've got tons of advice for me abouty how to do things - but never ever ever have a spare minute to actually do anythnig or help out- all benefit from my efforts but think i'm a giant jacka$$ -
i'm truly fine tho- so now i'll go get busy and pay some bills, finished the wood pile - yay, dye my hair i think. (i trimed it other day and the "ends" ended up being about three inches - you know, even up this side- even up that siden -eeeek.

don't care- seeya and thanks for note.

oh me oh my- sos xxoo

Nero, when I think of you, the last word I would think of is pathetic.

Resilient, courageous, strong, loyal, stubborn, funny, irreverent and real are words I think of.

I want you to be sure not to tarnish those memories. They were real and true, my friend.

We do what we need to do in order to get through things. I believe when we are really ready for something different, we know it and act.

We all walk this in the way we need to for us. There is no right or wrong way to do it.

That isnt to say that we dont sometimes get stuck. Maybe you are. But I know that when I was it was before me realizing what I needed to do next.

You are grieving your loss and dealing with the aftermath. Allow yourself to do that.

I truly believe that when you feel that you need more, and that fear isnt driving you, you will figure it out.

Til then, do what is best for you.

Nero ^^^^^^ what she said.

I am not in your place - my xh was clear cut about NOT having me in his life at all. It seemed very hard to lose all contact with what I had always though of as my life partner, but I do not know how I would have coped with him coming and going between me and OW. Not well, I suspect.

Cut yourself some slack - you have lost your mother, and have all that to deal with on top of this. My mother died a few months before my xh took off (not unrelated events, I suspect) and only now can I see what an emotional train wreck I was.

One day at a time is good!

hey hi beatrice AND UR --

good to hear your voiceS - thanks for notes YOU GUYS are so nice and i'm glad to have your input and support. Beatrice - i couldn't find you in forum lists the other day- i hope you're doing okay. i feel like this should all be a distant (bad) memory by now.

i was just reading a little "inspirational" sort of paragraph in a book i have & like - it's saying we have to confront and acknowledge our emotions or they get bigger and bigger and more demanding for our attention. sheesh ! and here's me thinking i've got to quit knowing what i feel and get numb - better.

i know the last year or two have been the worst of my life and i should just chill and ride it thru. been trying- but then sometimes i think "cripes - get with the program, etc." everyone out there IN FORUM seem to be all sayin - "hey- i gotta live my life, i'm moving past this" and i just don't seem to be there (yet). or anywhere really.

when i think about "what to do next" - i don't have a stinkin clue what would be me "moving forward" in a positive way (life - plan wise) . that would be real or realistic anyuway. i can think of a couple total fantasy conclusions - very darn not likely to happen tho - wah wah.

this selling my mom's house and the shore house we've all gone to for alllllll our lives - feels alot like a giant - real life - "period" being put on my entire past life (63 yrs of who i am/was) . (or so it feels). sooo all of a sudden who i "am" isn't good enough for anyone around anymore. It served their purpose when "someone" had to do a particular job (mom,estate) but now - HA - i'm supposed to just walk out the door and BE SOMEONE NEW - just like that.

- i know it's a depressed sort of outlook- but I cannot escape knowing that linda and mother being dead (my closest family ) and h heading out (or whatever the heck he's doing) and the other three sisters feeling compelled to tell me just what they think of me - well, it seems mighty like end of the line, family wise. we (they) (see- i'm still thinking we're some sort of group- but everyone can't stand everyone else) have alot of anger in this family - what the heck is that alllll about? alot of delusion as well (1), alot of entitlement (3) - whew.... who are these women????

i think that (sadly) when the houses are sold and estate is "done" - i will not really bother looking up the youngest (most angry and emotionally uncontrolled) one. she and her husband were such hateful , jacka$$es - i find i don't want to be around them - at all - ever (so far). and the others - we communicate - but knowing what they've said and feel (about me ) and all this - well, makes it hard to capture any sort of warm fuzzy feelings. If i weerrn't close to their children - i doubt if i'd see them either. ccccrrrrreeeeeeeepy

it's sure a strange outcome for me, a person alllll- immersed in family and it being a huge part of who i am - one of these five sisters (dutiful daughter) ( charming?! companion & loverpie) . boy- things sure change

i can clearly see that h has reverted to his last working identity- young guy in college playing tennis, bsing with buddies and f'ing around - i don't have an alternate/ backup identity in the closet to just shake out and put on.

anyway - if i could feel less pressured by all this - and quit worrying about doing "the right thing" all the time - saying that out loud- i hear myself and gotta take a step back from that. nobody else is doing anything about anything- or helping- so i guess i need to tell self - alot more- that whatever i do will be fine. (so me- crowd pleaser - but these people are un-pleasable) i forget) i cannot seem to get my head around all that seems to need to be done with this house and emptying it - (resolution- i'll get three people out therer this week or next to tell me about buying contents ) that needs to be done in order to list it.

Work is good - keeps me distracted (hweading there in a few min.) - but aside from getting out of the house and doing stuff & keepin busy- i got nothin in there as far as "i always wanted to do ________ or i always wanted to try _______" , i do not have any "bucket list" and a bunch of stuff I "always wanted". i was always just plugging along pretty much happy and content.

i am having trouble (globally) in adjusting totally to being "not so happy". i guess that's just it. I even still feel grateful that i know it all could be a heck of alot worse - h could have chucked me out the window without a cent, demanded i pay him for house and i'd be struggling on top of everything else. Or, he could still be silent and rotten and reallly really cold and crappola (like beginning - before i found out really what was going on with him and ow). i mean, all that could still happen any day i guess, i don't think about it so much. determined to ride with whatever comes (fingers crossed) but hairy sometimes. i'd much rather have security (yeah, i know, me and the entire universe() -

I just don 't know anything about all this at the moment- and EMOTIONAL TRAINWRECK is putting it lightly Beatrice. . but i like it- and i thank you guys for sayin what you have. like, that's soooo me- needing some "permission" from the outside world to feel what i feel. it sure is all undeniablly "there" - i can't ignore it.

I cannot see anything in the future to be honest . I find that distressing - i don't even know what i'd wish for if i could? i'm fully aware that i'm not "up to" dealing with anything in the world emotionally "new" - but then i remind myself that when you do something new or meet someone new - if you like it/them alot- it's easy and fun - not hard and scary.

keep a good thought huh? MIND YOU- i do not have desire to look, date, find a man, trust a man, etc. AT ALL - BUT LOOSELY i'd rather have someone in my life again someday - than not.

oh well- there's my well-defined plan for life - loosely regain happiness.

great huh? the plan? remain calm and try and not think bout it all - . okay, i'm outta here.

on a funny note- i slept in soft curlers cause my hair was wet last nite- it's soooo curlie whirlie i look like a giant insane mop - have it clipped back. what a head - this hair has been out of control my whole life- but this morning is a new frontier.

xxoo thanks so much hope you both have great days.

This is all difficult, and as UR says, we all do it in our own way at our own pace.

Yes, I felt as if I was totally jettisoned from my old life - rudely, in both sense of the word!!

As I understand it, when we are first injured, physically and emotionally, we go numb, and even vague and dreamy - it is part of the coping mechanism that enables us to go on. After a while though we need to feel the pain in order to do what is necessary to heal.

In fact I can now see what happened as a huge opportunity for me to change my life. I am a bit older than you and I have embarked on a new career - it is great fun. I do all kinds of things I didn't do before, and am going to learn to ski next!!

I take good care of myself, and have a great mix of old and new friends. Sometimes I miss what I had, but that is understandable - in fact I think it would be weird if we didn't miss our old lives.

The other thing is that I have learned to be grateful for what I had, as well as what I have now. A long and stable marriage, and all of that - how amazing to have had a beach house that you went to for all of your life! How amazing to still be on friendly terms with your SO - even if he is in another relationship.

Your mother was difficult, but you did the best you could and you know it. You didn't walk away. You garden, you craft, you are a great person. The old has served you well, but now is the time to move forward - opportunities can present themselves if we are open to them - but not always in the way we think.

hey hi UR -

thanks for not thinkin i'm pathetic. sometimes i do not know what i am, and where i'm heading with alllll this.

now that i'm here- i realize i'm blue and negative this morning - so i'm going to save you and go away til i can be more objective or upbeat.

xxoo

hey hi-

thanks for comments. ya know, i do feel fortunate and grateful for alot of things in my life. i know and always have (even when totally decimated) that i've got it better than alot of other people

and, believe it or not, i do feel "open" to whatever will pop up in my life and future.

I just am having a period of total "pointlessness" (kind of thing.)

it's not my usual mindset- i am amazingly sleep=-depreived lately. it's not good i know- one can only have control of so much. I'll go take a long walk in a few minutes - endeavor to c lear mind and begin day over since work didn't call.

i don't like to take a sleeping pill EVERY nite- tho lots of friends do. seems like a bad idea-

anyway - it's great that you can feel like this is a positive result kind of thing- and how well you're moving forward and recreating yourself and your life.

i am not so sure where or what that will look like for me. i've got new stuff going on- i still think it may be my "journey" to hang in thre with teh dbing a bit longer - i may be wrong- i may be right.

I hope i end up feeling as you do. as far as treasuring my memories - i surely used to - i'm trying.

no darn answers about anything today. i know my mom dying and clearing out her house (alone) is a dreary thing and weighs me down. that is inescapable. so maybe i feel normally about it all.

it's hard to let go of allllll that - a lifetime of that life, mom, sister(s), h?, etc. everything....

i know- the shore was great . once linda died - (she was my closest sis and allll my memories were shared by her- ) it all lost it's shine a bit- and then, of course, onset of my mom's mind & health problems, etc...

I keep telling myself not to freak out- that any normal person would feel these things - in light of last bunch of years.

oh well- onward and upward - thanks for hopeful words.

i do believe in the end i'll do whatever i have to - and make it all work again - and just begin over totally (when i've got to).

i'd say for the moment (tho disgusted with H) i'm stilll lucky he's payin bills and there (even in his limited and creepy way) . i never thought anyone "got it all" -

xxoo

hi anyone-

just reporting in that i'm still alive out here. I think it makes me pretty blue to read people's painful stuff or rehash mine or even think about it. I bore myself with it- i am in a holding pattern of some sort - not sure if i'm "standing" or just sittin by the roadside.

Feel a bit blue- donated first batch of mom's possessions - the actual loading up of a small portion of all of our lives from her/our home - was sad. it's made ma a bit depressed - actual, physical "letting go". i've never been good at goodbyes, etc.

her birthday was a couple days ago- h's is today. sad to not share those days - workin on mom's house- cleaning up, sorting thru, etc. keepin busy-

now that i'm here- i don't have anything really important or upbeat to say-

worked a bunch up til now this month- that was really good. think i'll clear out before i depress anyone here- have wonderful day- the fall leaves are lovely- got that goin for me... lots to do today before it gets COOOOLLLLLLLD. NOT quite feelin ready to be cold yet - it's comin tho huh? whether i like it or not- (sums up my life at the moment doesn't it)

oh well- onward & upward

xxo

Nero,
It's okay to feel sad about clearing out your mother's home. After all, it was home to you and your siblings for many years too.

I often think about the things that we collect over the years and when we pass on, what we once thought of as our treasures, are not always seen as treasures in the eyes of others, hence the selling off or carting off to the landfill, or donating takes place. If it gets to be too much for you during the sorting out time, walk away for a while. It's okay to cry and feel down. It's all part of the mourning process.

Please come here to talk about it. Please do not suffer the sadness and grief alone. We will listen and offer our support to you.

Please take care of yourself.

Hey Nero. Tough stuff, that. I am so sorry you are feeling sad.

You are still so hard on yourself, my friend. It's ok to feel what you feel.

I think you need to work on getting your mom's stuff sorted out and not think about anything else right now. Sometimes we just have to take it day by day.

Though I love that we have seasons, I do struggle with the change in them...especially fall to winter.

I pray that one day you feel lighter and realize what a special soul you are.

I smile when I see you have posted...knowing there will be wonderful bits of you in there.

I am here anytime you need me...just a phone call or a quick car ride away.

Love ya, my friend.

hey job -

thanks for note. i do feel like a rat coming here to totally "dump" when i notice i'm blue . it seems like i would be heaping on more junk out there in the forum where everyone's suffering already.

but thanks for invite- and i sure do manage, don't I, to speak up. it's the only place i "know" some folks are out there- listening maybe, having some good thoughts & words to offer.

this whole " sufferin" stuff- it sure make you realize how few people really are there when ya need it, help, understanding, etc.

nothing dramatic- just a pat on head and a "we understand" , feel free to come here, etc.

it sure makes all the difference in the universe to hear someone say - it's okay- feel free. so thanks- made my day-

i'm outta here- tons and tons more to do -

not to mention own mess of a house/life, etc.

whew- the "misery years" - saying that makes me have to laugh - at my drama - oh well- fingers cross4ed that they are (almost???) thru??

it's all gotta be over someday - rite????

xxoo have a good day.

you're sure right about our " treasures" being crappola to others. BUT - we've all taken things from mom's , and my n3eices and friends, soooo, i think she's being thought of daily in alot of places - i suppose that's the most one can expect or ask - huh???

she and i drove each otehr nuts alot- but she was a good egg in so many ways- no kidding. i think (hope) the people she helped all remember the good things she did & her kindness. *(and her sense of humour (which was v good back in the day bevfore old age got to her).

oh well- there but for the grace of God huh???

hiya dearie -

you're so nice - to offer help. just thinking you'd be willing to help - helps. then i say to self - buck up man- get this stuff done- it's my "job" in life for the moment so just shut up and do it and get on with it.

ta da.

so - that walk- i'm headed out door- remember world is out there.

I HEAR YA about 2winter coming. i love the fall colors and bright colorfulness of the unniverse. i am in no mood to be cold and blue. something about it being all barren outside - adn feeling chillie allll the time-

eeeek- not thinking about it.

i can't even imagine winter-m uch less holidays. halloween made me cry- can't even imagine what christmas will be like- not gonna think about it.

trying to tell self- no obligations of self- don't think about it- don't streeess about shopping- don't STRESS in life- just be

ta da- workin on that today.

love ya man

Hi everyone-

just want to say have a nice thanksgiving to anyone out there that sees this. I plan to be very busy- hopefully laugh alot with the kids in the family (only ones not crabby - eeek) and enjoy myself by hook or by crook.

thanks to all for being there - i am grateful i found this forum and have been thru alot of awful awful times here and with you all - so thanks for propping me up when needed & listening.

how the heck i would have made it thru - well, to here anyway. i'm not " thru" and i still have no ideas about this all at all. but notr going to even think about "my life" until after christmas. total denial-

xxoo happy thanksgiving all and remember to remember allll the things we have to be grateful for (still breathing for one?!) and etc., there's always plenty if we begin tocount them...

lotsa love

nero

Happy Thanksgiving to you too! I'm glad you are spending the day w/family and not staying at home alone. Yes, we all have something to be thankful for.

Take care.

hey my friend. Just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. Hope you are doing well.

Wishing you a wonderful Christmas and an amazing New Year. I hope it brings you peace, laughter and joy.

Xoxoxo

hey job -

hope your thanksgiving was nice and you're rite- there is always SOMETHING we can trot out to be thankful for- it's a good habit, looking at the good instead of rehashing the old (painful- done to death - wrongs, etc).

it's easy for my mind to roam backward now or then- and i have to jolt self awake and say uh uh - donot go there- why would you want to relive any moment of awful times???

with determination i can yank myself away from unproductive thoughts and DO SOMETHING.

it's wierd - it's "work" sometimes - even now when i am not nearly as ocd about it all as i was. not having to worry about my mom is a mixed thing- maybe worry gets to be a habit-

i'm not saying i miss the worry. i do miss having here there - and knowing it - habitof a lifetime i guess.

oh well- had nice holiday and hope yours was too-

heading up to nj tomorrow morning- should be chillie & hopefully fun.

see neice up there- she's got alot of spirit-

where the heck would we be without kids to remind us what's important and how to laugh (alot) at just about everything??? i'm askin ya...

xxoo

hey hiya ur -

i think about you all the time - hope yourholiday was good - i've been really busy and "lost in space" here.

it's soo old habit to just get dug in and get busy and keept hat way.

i guess it gets ya by and becomes a lifestyle as well as a way to get self to do chores and what needs to be done.

i'll leave off inspecting everything til another day.

i make myself tired with the thinnkign. just been floating along day to day- playing with the kids - they are soooo crazy and all the usual things needing doing day in and day out.

i do get it why nobody came around when mom was alive and needed company rather badly and me there by self- it is soo nice to get to another town - it all fades into the background and isn't a "worry". i haven't even thought about "it all" since getting here.

i aint saying it's "right" - i'm just sayin i do see it. now, hopefully some day i will not be all grudging about nobody helping out.

they're a wierd bunch- cannot wait til estate is allover and there is no giant "bone of contention" around.

thanksgiving was nice- we cooked - too darn busy for week before to even think - prepare&clean (and play with kids).

all okay with me. have been having okay visit- only got totally pissed off a couple times- no major exchanges- rather amicable all in all.

found a box of old letters & cards & pictures and went strolling down memory lane yesterday - had to stop that- i'lllever it for a few years. too sad

pretty good mood for me all things being considered - so i'll take it.

gu4ess i'll get out of here- i need to be loading car really- just popped in while he's playing tennis- to say hi- no time to go look around much- i need to find your posts- will try later (or when free again).

hope you're hving a good fall/winter? and your son too. so that's me- loading up craft crappola - why? idk- i just do it- the junk transferral process.

xxoo thanks many many times for all your support- you and everyone that have propped me up past bunch of years.

i feel like a different person these days than i was. i can't even flesh it out properly- but i view that as progress tyhat i'm losing the desire to inspect and define- i swear- i don't give a d@mn much these days. i'll take it tho. hope it stays- i'm sick of thinking about this mlc crappola and sick of talking about it and that is that.

just leaves me here awaiting the time when i can face another giant change and then go ahead and change (it all).

we'll see what this year brings huh???? i keep wanting to gonuts and move to some foreign country- for a year. it is rather crazy- but it's a pleasant fantasy for the moment. england? netherlands? idk- just a huge HUGE ADVENTURE.

xxoo happy holidays to everybody -

Hi Nero,
Yes, I had a nice Thanksgiving, but Christmas is upon us and came entirely too quickly from the last holiday. LOL!

I'm glad you are coming up the coast and will spend some time w/your niece. Kids have a way of taking our focus off ourselves and seeing the world through their eyes for a short period of time. My niece is 14 and my nephew is 17 so they are growing up and both have different personalities altogether. They are good young adults and are very helpful when asked. We have some fun things lined up for when they are off for the two weeks.

It looks like you might have some good travel days to come up the coast. It's in the 50's here today and I am hoping it will stay that way for a bit. We've had a lot of rain and the ground needs to dry out a bit, but other than that...life is good here and I'm having fun people watching during this holiday season wherever I go.

Travel safely and enjoy the holiday.

Hey Nero. My Thanksgiving was lovely, thanks. It's only me and my sis left so it's small, but, loving. And my boy was with us, so, that's all I really need.

You know, sometimes you do whatever you need to do in order to get by and that's ok. You just dont want to make it a lifestyle, ya know? Then you arent really living.

I hear ya on the too much thinking. That really doesnt get you very far because things are as they are.

That's great that you feel a relief by going down there in some ways.

I hope and pray the estate thing is over soon. I know that is weighing heavily on you. Families...sometimes they are difficult.

Yea, dont go down memory lane if you arent ready for it, Nero. Thats just asking for trouble. Hopefully, one day you can and remember the good times with love.

You sound good, sweetie. I can see the difference clearly even if you cant. The rawness is gone and you are living your life. Any forward motion is progress in my eyes.

If you go to a foreign country...can I come? I would love a big adventure. LOL!

I know, without a doubt, then when you are ready to change anything, you will.

I am doing ok, thanks. Struggling with some things, trying to work through others.

Hope you have a wonderful holiday, my friend.

xoxo

Hey hiya-

Thanks for note- i've been sooooo busy constantly- i haven't even remembered the computer. it is just like "work" to me- sitting in front of a screen - which is what one does in an office these days. i just forget it exists when i'm really really busy.

we finished up in fl and headed to nj like 19th - arrived 20th - undecorated halloween decorations and put up some christmas - enough to make it fun (tree , etc) but not the usual all out. too much work for a couple days. cooked, cleaned and cooked christmas day feast - and like you- it's a amll group here now. my cousin & his wife (and two kids) and my nephew wereall late by about an hour- and it was great. my sister, neice, h & I sat down to a quiet and really quite nice dinner- then everyone wantedered in and ate too, visited, it ws really nicer i think than usual- so what the heck??? ya never know, do you.??

soooo- all in all a nice little holiday and notmuch stress or worry- so good for me.

i guess i'm adjusting - i like it when you say you see a difference. some days i do, some not too much- always tho "in general" in the background of my thoughts, feelings, etc.

i guess we all just morph whether we see it or fee it or what - all the time also i guess - so hoping it's all good.

he leaves tomorrow morning- it's a wierd thing - me and this sitch. i have no idea really what i'm doing (REALLY) - I can see the good things he does, i can appreciate good things- problem is that when i see the less than great things- i now don't make excuses and am forced pretty much to see them for what they are (selfish, whatever). it's not global or a problem really- but it's sad-ish to be all clinical and honest with self and so on.

seems shabby sometimes- it's soooo my habit to 'see the good side". ya gotta wonder where the chips will fall.

i honestly don't know- i am pretty tired of not having more love and affection in my life- but then realize who does necessarily and i've still got it alot better than most.

this being reasonable stuff really kind of steadys the boat all the time and maybe that's not so good either.

oh well- no tghinking - it's a policy still. the weather was lovely over christmas and i feel guilty still not wanting snow imemediately- but it makes me go out in the garden and tidy up a bit and that's great.

ta da- who knows, maybe i'll get those four bags of mulch actually spread around instead of piled in the yard!!@!@

hop[pe springs eternal. you sound great- so i'm glad of it- and glad your holiday was nice. hope christmas was too and that the new year is a great one for us all- xxo

hi job-

i ws just over in your thread - reading about the book ya'll were talkin g about. good posts - really fit too. th anks for your insights .

i marvel that all this mlc junk is soooooo predictable and "text book" - here it's all ruining our lives- and there in some book it's just another list of symptoms that are true and fit. it's both sad and funny.

i guess overall it makes me feel better to find it all sooooooohum drum and 'commonm". i'd hate to have some "rare' condition. somehow it's nicer to feel like just another human being having same problems as a million other poor saps. life -humnity - all "in it" together.

it's a shame it leaves us all feeling like our lives are in xshambles - the whole mlc - debacle.

life- wierd and then gets wiereder.

i'd like to be apologetic more about my stinkin polly anna side- but i swear- maybe without it i'd be despairing and depressed and end up going over some edge or drinking myself to death (like some friends/sisters) . i'm grateful that even if i'm a bit doofie - i can manage to not get too "it's all black" ish.

know what i mean? oh well- sos w/ me- hope your Christmas was great and that (for all of us) this new year -( for which i have high hopes for no particular reason other than survived another year and still alive and plugging away - ) is waaay better than any yet- and who the heck knows what may turn up on any of our horizons????/ not me.

fingers crossed for wonderful things (even humble but wonderful) things. .

xxxoo

Hi Nero
I hope the new year will be so much better and brighter for you. Last year was a tough one for you and now, hopefully, things will settle down a bit for you.

Yes, it's interesting how there is another list of symptoms and they are true and fit many of our spouses. Too bad we didn't learn about these things when we were in school or we learned about them many years ago. I guess many of these things are cropping up more and more and now in the age of electronics, they are being talked about and yes, people are more open than they were back in the 30's, 40's and 50's.

I'm just happy to be a normal, boring person who takes life each day as it comes. The drama that these folks create and have circling around in their heads must cause them to lose a lot of sleep over time. Oh, well...it's something we didn't break and we sure can't control or fix it for them.

I think the new year is going to bring you some new and exciting things to do. One thing for sure...you need to take care of yourself.

Happy New Year!

Happy New Year, my friend.

I do see a big difference in you, Nero. And yea, I know some of it is just you being worn down or accepting what is for right now. But there is more to it than that. I think you are realizing what you want and you are just unsure about how to get it. Or more like you arent ready to take the next step on your journey. You will be, though. I have no doubt.

i guess we all just morph whether we see it or fee it or what - all the time also i guess - so hoping it's all good.

It is sad, this crisis. No only for how it has affected us and our lives, but, what it has done to theirs. While they may seem happy, I think how can they be truly. It cant make you happy to hurt someone who loves you. It cant make you happy to do whatever you think you have to, in order to find joy. I often imagine what that brokenness must feel like to them.

I love that you see the good sides of things, Nero. Not enough people do. There isnt anything wrong with that, as long as you dont allow yourself to be hurt further.

I know you are tired of it all, my friend. I wish I could find words to make that better.

Just keep moving forward, N. Keep thinking about what you want. Do things you love. Be with people who make you laugh.

I wish this year brings you peace, contentment, laughter and joy.

xoxo

hey hi-

good to hear your voice. you know, i serioyusly wonder about the whole thing of "them" suffering. perhaps your h and alot of people's are miserable or suffer.

mine - i think he's just like a spoiled "kid" - doing what he wants- takin care of number one- and if he feels guilt or unhappiness about it- well, i thnk he feels some guilt and thats why he is ratty or critical (making sure i'm at fault & "bad") - HOWEVER- I DON'T THINK he even registers my feelings or anyone elses. it's all his feelings. (which, by the way- he doesn't articulate- can't acknowledge and probably hates having) so doesn't admit or own. and of course, criticizes and belittles others feelings because they're allllll "self serving and bids for pity". oh man- what a messed up person. and what a messed up outlook.

i don't think it hurts him tho- . me, based on my feelings and the old "do unto others" i was raised with- my conscience bothers me til i come clean. i'd have had to admit it and end it with me before i could carry on and find any happiness with anyone else by wounding someone that loved me. tooooo guilt-inducing to even endure for long day to day. just can't do it and enjoy myself.

i'm thinking if he could be such a liaar and cheater of long standing- it's just part of who he is. i think that's my problem- who was he anyway??? when i met him and fell in love - and who is he now- and will the real person please stand up.

i think this is howcome i find it better to shove all this crappola aside to be dealt with some other day. too confusing and no answer i can find. (lost about 3 hrs sleep last nite allowing this sort of dopey thought creep into mind - too sleep0-dopey to save self. i should have put the tv back on alot earlier instead of thinking i could block it out by self. silly woman

like my sister that died- was the "real" her the woman i grew up with and knew soooooo well? or was the "real" her the person she became when drunk and unfettered by all the rules or whatever might have held her in check ? kn ow what i mean??? - it really could make ya crazy. i'm pretty sure it's both- no real hard and fast line between the good and bad thems.

i sure with i could fix things for me and anyone else- ya never can tho, can you??? i keep wondering about people who deal with this stuff at a young age and how it changes them, their lives, etc. i wonder if i'm particularly lucky to have gone 60+ years or so before having my faith in people so mangled. i can't imagine being skeptical and suspicious at a young age. how it must change you, change your life, work on you and any r you have. i'm glad i never knew or even suspected. i don't mind having been a trusting dope if that was what it was. it was better by far than this-

ignorance is bliss for sure. oh well huh? i think i better go back to work room from he!! and keep on "digging out" here. made a start today after airport run- made some progress - uncovered my sewing machine & work surface around it. i can do more for anotehr hour or so. read a book last nite and today- felt good to "go somewhere else" for awhile.

ya khow, i think even thinking of finding a new r or meeting someone to date makes me tired still- i do not even feel like thinking about anything that "challenging" yet. ya just can't "turn it off", just like that - - can you - like a faucet- feelings that have a long long life??? I'm sure you're rite that we just have to keep plugging along on our own little journey til the time is rite for us and the way becomes clear.

i sure never realized i could ever have this much patience and endurance. (i hope in the end it's enough) It's sooooo hidden a thing- a person's sheer will to carry on and then doing it. unseen by anyone really- but you do know it , don't ya. the amazing effort & the hard-to-see progress. I think of my mom when my dad died and she just carried on with five kids to be responsible for- all the jobs and what a huge crisis in her life. sheesh!! even my sisters- shattering divorces- four carried on - one coulden't. it's big man . oh well, toomuch heavy stuff for me- i'm outta here.

hoping to continue along here with no major traumas/I can feel the absence of big worry and responsibility for someone else- it's sad but it's a big big weight off one's shoulders. i am - awaiting wisdom to blam down on my head as yusual- who knows???

happy new year- i'm gonna go dig around more and put junk away - . have a mountain in the attic and onne in teh cellar too... oh mannnnnn

xxoo