It's been a few months since I have last posted or really read here on the forum.
Just wanted to catch you all up and provide some encouragement to those seeking resolution in their M's.
My H and I are TOTALLY reconciled!
Christmas of last year, H took me out to an expensive dinner and gave me a sincere and heartfelt deep apology for all the grief and trouble he put me through!
We are very close, yet have each changed in our own ways. We are growing individually and together. We are learning to appreciate and accept each other's differences.
I remember reading a long time ago here on the forum a poster who said that he thought that M repair took 1 month for every year married. That has been about accurate for our M.
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My H plans things with his guy buddies occasionally. I have attended quite a few social gatherings with his new friends (men and lots of single girls) he acquired during MLC. I have not been welcomed with as much enthusiasm as I would wish, but I have learned to ignore the coldness I receive at times, and just try to enjoy this part of my H....a part of his life he has let me into.
A telling time for me was when we celebrated our 16th anniversary this month and attended a cookout with about 20 people -- some from H's drinking group and some new people. H brought a cake that said "happy anniversary to H and rH" and when we ate our pieces he fed me and I fed him....with people watching, gasp!
Also, he then took me to a beautiful restaurant later in the evening. We had such a fine time!!
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We plan our weekends together; we plan our future together. I receive the most gorgeous cards from him at special occasions! No conversation topic is off limits. We hug and cling to one another every night. My H says he is "in-love" with me now. Much of our R is solid friendship, tho, I would say. Our mutual past history is a joy to have as part of who we are. We don't share passwords on electronic devices but I have every password for every financial account and we don't hide our phones or computer usage from one another.
I have been a licensed realtor now for three months (a brand new job borne out of the MLC time--b/c I thought I would have to go back to work after being a SAHM). I have an appointment for my first listed house today and the woman listing it also provided me with a buyer -- so things are looking up.
I am making a few friends of my own at work and at a health club where I attend classes with other women my age. It has felt so good to start working on me again instead of working so hard and worrying so much about getting my M back!
Our family life has definitely changed, but is solid. H and our boys (ages 14 and 20) spent two evenings ago trying to outdo each other in how many push-ups they could do! There was fun and laughter all around!
There has been a huge loss of trust from our boys in H, but as the months roll by, and my H continues to show himself trustworthy, I see some trust creeping back from them.
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My H constantly is looking for new entertainment events to take me to. He seems happy and satisfied with hobbies at home. He no longer is antsy on a day off at home. He revels in taking up large projects on our homestead.
We are much more honest with one another in feelings. We have been working for 17 months on our M and b/c we have been together a while...it is easy to let things slide. It's so important to keep the idea of growth...me growing, him growing...and careful attending to the M as if it were a valuable plant...or expensive artwork...or a valued hobby. Money, time, and thought are all investments we have to continually make to keep this M strong!
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I would say this whole journey has been incredible....and well worth it! I have a wonderful M. I like who I am and who I am becoming. There are some things about H that are forever changed. I am learning to accept and appreciate this new him. He has grown in every area of his life, as I have as well.
Courage, my friends here on the forum! For those of you who aren't done yet, it has been well worth my time invested in my M.
And my forever thanks to those who helped me through here....you know who you are...those of you who held my hand during the dark, dark days!
rH!
My goodness! What a pleasant surprise!
I'm very, very happy to read your posting and that life and your marriage are going great! You worked very hard, just as your h did to get to this point. Your new marriage is and will continue to grow and be better...just remember...don't fall back into the old ways! LOL!
How are your sons doing these days?
Congratulations on getting your license! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the deal will go thru for you today. I know you will "wow" them and sell the home w/little or not effort.
rH, you've come a long way and you deserve every bit of happiness that life has to offer. Your h came to his senses and realized that you were the prize and he would never find anyone else that could match your wonderful qualities. I'm very proud of you!
It's always nice to know that there are some "happily ever after" situations that come out of the MLC dust/ashes.
Please don't be a stranger...come back to post more often. We miss you!
Thank you for posting, I had read your entire sitch just a week or so ago from awhile ago and wondered what happened to you!! So nice to hear an update - I'm glad things are moving forward for you - it is encouraging to a lot of us!!
I am so happy for you. I am fairly new to this adventure, so I look forward to reading your posts and to see how you handled different situations. It is so helpful, gives me such a push to read success stories. It gives me hope that with continued patience and honor to my H and my M, that we can pull through this and be stronger than ever.
I wish the best for your family!
hey hi-
soo nice to hear from you again- and i am soooo happy you're doing so well . it was a magical letter - full of things we only dream about out here. (dare we even hope?) idk
anyway- wow, your time frame of working on it for a month for every year- that would mean 38 months of work. i would kill for one conversation of just plain old unvarnished honest talk- no turning it all into a joke. it's soooo far from a joke to me. you do have it all now-
i can't imagine reaching a place like you are in- yet i'm still here plugging away. it's sure nice to hear a success story-
i'm very happy for you.
xxoo .
Thank you so much to all who posted in reply: nero, mleigh4, TL72*, AJM and job!!!
I wanted to post a little update.
I did have my first real estate closing last month in my new career! I was thrilled to get a paycheck finally, and I have two listings, one under contract already. I am getting so many leads I had to give some away--as I want to properly service the ones I have and I am still learning, learning, learning!
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My H and I and our two sons (ages 14 and 20) just got back yesterday from a roadtrip to the Grand Canyon. It was marvelous. The boys and we agreed it was probably our best vacation ever.
We had some in-depth talks on the way there about serious social or personal issues. My H is now approaching life with the wisdom of the experienced. He no longer has a "me first" mentality. He even said to the boys his life is "half over" at 47. I was thrilled to hear this as he told me he is eligible to retire in 10 years but doesn't want to look at it as retiring. He merely wants to start a new career and is going to think and plan what that will be. He is full of life and passion! These are the things he felt he was missing.
He treated me like a queen every step of the way during this vacation. He is normal, balanced and happy. He doesn't have the paranoia about the cellphone or his conversations or his life. He doesn't look like he is "on the prowl". He is a man of peace and wisdom.
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I reflected privately on our past years as we were traveling.
I believe my H was a textbook MLC from start to finish. He had some childhood issues. He had a death in his family of origin around the time he turned 40. He went through years of depression and turmoil. He dove into serious replay with all the trimmings. He moved out, desired and explored women. He drove the D train to almost the very end and stopped one week short of D and "delayed" it. He went through emotional anguish and turmoil. He withdrew. He took about a year and a half to properly ground himself after deciding not to D and then his MLC ended. He now is a model husband, father, provider, lover and at peace with who he is and his life.
He and I do sometimes run into a snag...usually to do with my fears that came out of the MLC experience. We talk through and work through each one.
My H even admitted for the first time, during vacation, he wishes he hadn't posted some of the hurtful things he did publicly on FaceBook.
Be encouraged, my friends, some spouses do make the full journey and come out better than you could imagine!
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This morning he and I had a couple of hours alone without our boys. I made him a meal like we used to make our first year together. It was baked brie with French bread, grapes and other fruit and smoked salmon.
I lit a candle for the two of us and set our table with tablecloth and cloth napkins. I smiled at my H and told him he has only gotten more handsome through the years! He said he felt I have also gotten more attractive to him through the years.
We recounted the moments of our "first time together". We both remember it with astounding clarity.
I can say I am totally in love with him and can only look forward to a bright future together!
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job, our boys are doing very well. The older one is about to start his 3rd year in engineering school, still living at home, still on full academic scholarship. One of his hobbies is "sword fighting" once a week with friends on campus.
The younger one is about to start his first year at high school in a private Christian high school. He will be doing cross country competition this fall.
They both have relaxed back into the normal, happy family life. Issues come up and we deal with them. But MLC is past history.
rH,
I'm so glad to come here and see that you've posted an update. The trip to the Grand Canyon is one of my favorites and I'm sure you and your family had a wonderful time. Did you do the ride down into the Canyon and camp out down there? Mother Nature sure had a way w/her paint brush when she did the Canyon.
I'm glad to see that you are doing well w/the real estate career. It took you a while to get to where you are now, but you are doing great and the more property you sell, the more money will go into the bank for you and your family.
Yes, you'll hit some snaps along the way, but if you and your h can continue to have open communication, you will be just fine. It takes time to get over some of the hurdles, but you are definitely at the finish line.
I'm very proud of you and your family. Your sons are growing up and it won't be long before they'll be out on their own. Gosh, I can't believe the youngest is going to be a freshman this year and your older son is a third year student in engineering school. Where did the time go? LOL!
Again, I'm very proud of the way you've handled your situation. Here's to a new life and many more happy adventures along the way.
THANKS for sharing...
Right now I need to read about success stories, need to know that some M are restored. I need hope right now.
Thank you and congrats
Dear rH,
So glad you posted an update. What a long, strange trip it's been
I remember very clearly when your h was attempting to go through the D process. You were heartbroken. Yet, even in the darkest of days, you had hope. It may have only have been a tiny glimmer, but it was there.
Look where you are at now
You are a true inspiration rH, and I am honored to have walked this journey with you. You have continually handled yourself with such dignity, compassion, kindness, and grace. You show such love for your H and family.
I am so very happy for you my friend.
Thank you job, and takevowsserious and 2BH!
I responded to you dear 2BH on your thread.
Job, we didn't all do the GC hike. My older son and sister and BIL (who met us out there) did the overnight hike in and out. H and S14 and I toured Indian cliff dwellings and trendy towns in the area and had a great time.
Thank you, job, for saying I'm at the finish line! Oh, how I wanted you to say that for so long...how I wanted this all to be over when it wasn't!
I truly feel in my gut it is over. Just like you know when little things are wrong...just little things....I have my radar up high and I know everything is right...just right!
My H and I have tried to make routines to make sure this never happens again. We give each other space and privacy and also work to create fun times and dates together. I try to appreciate who he is now.
And, job, just to let you know...I've been with H 24/7 for a week and only saw him take one drink. He started a beer last night but only half-finished it as he wanted to see all of S20's pics from the Canyon hiking trip. It's like the alcohol problem is out of his system altho he will probably drink casually and socially from time-to-time.
TVS, dear TVS, thank you for your kind words. Yes, I so remember the darkest of days and the many posts from you and other keeping me going. It was my goal to come out of this respecting myself and my H if we D. But...the happiest of endings I could only dream of happened! And I feel so much internal joy about the things I have learned and am learning about myself. I am working on "me" every day. Not for my H. Not for my children. But for me...and being comfortable who I am and who I want to be! It is such a great feeling...I try to stay on the positive thought path and when I stray to the negative thoughts...I pamper myself until I can get back to positive! That's what my clinical psychologist told me to do.
My wish for you is for happy reconciliation in the future. Galbaby and I have been there and I soooooo want you there too!!!! But, in your usual humor, strength and grace, you will be comfortable with you and your boys no matter how/where you end up!
And a round of hugs for all
rH
rH,
What a wonderful visit from you! It looks like you and H closed the MLC chapter in your long marriage for good. Now you two are writing new chapters together and it's to be savored for sure.
So happy for you, H, and the lil' family who benefited from your DBing efforts. Yes, you did it!!!
rH, so glad to see your update. I'm not on here much and haven't updated in months (nothing's changed, unfortunately), but I was so happy to see that your family is back together.
It sounds like you're both doing the work you need to to keep things moving in the right direction. Feel free to keep updating when you can because we can never have too many success stories on here!
hey hi-
just checkin in and want to say hi and i'm so happy for you. you're an inspiration to us all- on this stinking long long "journey" - so nice to know there is some success out there.
so fingers crossed - who knows really what life holds next-
just hopin for good stuff - in an undefined kinda way.
xxo
What a great update. So glad to hear from you again and to give new comers the hope they are looking for.
Great that both you and h have done and continue to do the real work necessary to make your m work forever.
So so happy for you, I do remember you when...
Thanks to everybody and their kind replies here
job, our older son did hike down into the Grand Canyon with relatives and stayed overnight. My H and other son and I toured the area and enjoyed that immensely as well. We have really great memories and pics from the trip.
Life continues to get better with H. We have bought a new house on 1 acre and are closer to the metro area (instead of the rural 20 acres we had) with a guest house behind the house. We are turning the guest house into a rec room/workout room and man cave. This move to a new house is a brand new start for all four of us. We loved the old homestead but it had bitter as well as sweet memories for us all.
We have already had some friends over to our new place and used the rec room (we bought a pool table from the sellers) and I can't describe how much fun it was having company over with our two boys and us playing music, playing pool, darts, etc. and laughing and enjoying ourselves!
I have learned that H and I can disagree without being disagreeable. We are FAR more accepting of each other's quirks than we were pre-MLC.
I wanted to share that my H sent me an email earlier today that was interesting. He said he came across a goals list he had made in February 2013. This was nearly 2 years ago. At that time, he was still living in his own apartment, not at home
H listed 7 items that he wanted in his life. They mostly had to do with defining who he is separately in our M. He had never shared this with me.
He sent me this list today and EVERY ONE of the list is being fulfilled right now in his life. He is not a man to get overly excited but this was exciting for him!
I also feel fully free to be me in every aspect. I feel freedom to pursue my career, or stay at home if I wish. I am supported in all my endeavors and am fully trusted and loved.
Last weekend H and I visited a male friend of ours from his "drinking group". The three of us went to an entertainment district in the metro area in the evening. We rented "beach bikes" and rode around the streets and sidewalks looking at horses pulling Christmas-decorated carriages and we were laughing and letting the wind blow in our hair.
We rode the bikes to an ice skating rink and H and friend skated (first times) and I took pics. Then we met more friends at a restaurant for food and good times!
Everything is so great...its like a honeymoon but better b/c we know each other so well and the trust and love are very developed.
So...I see it isn't just the M that we saved...we preserved our individuality through this process.
rH, thanks so much for stopping by for an update. It means so much for a lot of people here. I almost cried when I was reading you update. I’m so happy for you!
rH,
I'm so happy for you! Your "new" life and marriage are going well. The new home sounds wonderful and I like the idea of the guest house being turned into a "man" cave. Well done!
You have been an inspiration for those who come here. Keep up the good work and if you don't report back in later, have a wonderful holiday season!
Awesome update rH! I'm so glad you stopped in. You gave me so much encouragement and hope through the difficult times in my situation. It was all worth it. I'm so glad I found this forum and your posts. I love that he has a list of goals and that he shared them with you. I am so glad to hear that things just continue to get better and better.
Thank you for your joy, Bright Future!
And thank you job…you will forever be a special person in my life. You stood by me through thick and thin and I will never ever forget it!
Thank you, Raine; I’m so happy you and your H have reconciled and have a life together once again!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
I wanted to share a tender moment between H & I a couple of nights ago.
We went to dinner with a couple and then to a show by Kacey Musgraves, country singer (“follow your arrow”).
The warmup band played this song:
“It won’t be Christmas without you.
I wrapped up all your presents,
Wrote my name on every card.
I just can’t help it baby,
Takin’ this so hard.”
I thought about Christmastime two years ago. Me and H with D papers signed by me. Waiting for him to sign. I thought my heart would totally break yet I was thrilled with the possibility of finally having a “normal” life after 4 years of MLC.
I felt tears pushing at the corners of my eyes; then my H looked over at me with his face full of emotion. We both smiled at each other and were able to keep these emotions under control. Whew!
And it was a great concert!
We both loved these lyrics by Kacey Musgraves:
“If you’re ever gonna find a silver lining
It’s gotta be a cloudy day
If you wanna fill your bottle with lightning
You’re gonna have to stand in the rain”
I thought some here may relate to this.
And, as always, wanted to give encouragement to as many as possible.
Hugs to all,
rH
rH,
I am very, very happy that things turned about you had a happy ending. There are so many newbies here that need to know that w/hope, patience, compassion, empathy, trust in the system and believing in themselves, that things just may turn around. It all takes time w/a whole lot of patience.
Congratulations! What a beautiful Christmas you will have this year and each year thereafter.
rH thank you so much for posting what you did- it really does provide great encouragement! I am where you were 2 years ago, on the brink of D, but I know there's still hope from seeing your sitch. Hope is so important- even when we are keeping our expectations low it can push us forward. Thank you for sharing.
I'm so happy for you and your family and wish you a wonderful Christmas!!!
Hey rH, just happened to see this and am very happy for you and your family.
I'm most happy that you continued your RE education and are now an agent and that you're continuing to live your life.
Merry Christmas!
We had a fabulous Christmas!
Just like last year, H got me way more and way nicer things than I got him.
We had a talk yesterday while we were out at the old property of 20 acres that we are fixing up to sell.
We were standing on the prairie acreage…just him and me while S15 rode the four-wheeler around joyfully catching air over jumps and zig-zagging this way and that.
Somehow we got on the MLC topic and I asked H what he was looking for when he left.
I said,
“I don’t know but things don’t seem all that much different for you now you are back. What was it that you wanted most?”
He said that it was more a matter of looking … but finding the things that DIDN’T make him happy, not that did.
He said the girls, the drinking, the parties, were all a distraction. He said it was the “easy road” and something to delay the inevitable..looking inside and seeing who he really was and what he wanted in this life.
He said that he found out that you can’t have everything you want in life and you choose to be happy with the things you do have.
I asked if it was family, our boys, that seemed the main motivation to come back b/c that is how he acted.
He said emphatically no, it wasn’t. Our boys are disgruntled from time to time and he wants everything to be great. He said if we had D he wouldn’t have to see it and he suspected I would have pushed him out of our lives.
I told him that wasn’t the way the lawyer said it usually happened. Usually the men fade away slowly.
I didn’t want to push him any farther so I said nothing more about it.
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Anyway, I wanted to share this with some who are looking at their spouses wondering what is happening…what happened…why?
I would say from looking at my H, that he is a man at peace with himself, a man with peace about his life, his choices. He is exactly the end product that was described to me at the finish of a full MLC journey.
His journey of life continues, but he has battled the fire…actually we battled together (tears coming to my eyes now) and he was victorious!
I’m so proud of him!
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I find myself over these last couple of months…staring at him more, amazed at his features, his expressions, his actions, his support of me and anything I want.
I realized this morning…I think, after 2 years of reconciliation, I may be ready for a deeper level of true love. A level he spoke to me about two years ago this December when we had a dinner together at a diner…two weeks from expected final D.
I trust him, I am not afraid of love, and I feel like I am ready for a deeper and truer understanding of who I am and my own goals and dreams.
Cheers to all and wishing you a very Happy New Year!!!!
By jove! I believe you are going to have a wonderful new year! I'm glad your h is able to speak a bit more freely about what he was looking for. He does speak the truth about the distractions and you know what? He will talk even more as time moves along. Be patient and don't probe too much and make him feel pressured to answer questions.
Happy New Year! I'm very happy for you and your family.
Thanks for sharing
Glad you are in a much better place with your H! SO very glad to read your "happy" post here...a glimmer of hope.
Thanks for posting! Very nice to hear the next chapter
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
AJ
Thanks for posting your "happy ever after" update. It's very encouraging!
wow reaching -
i loved reading your "re-cap". i wish i had a bit more hope here- but you never do know, do you??
im' so happy for you - it is wonderful to read someone say it's possible and have success.
happy new year and alot of love and peace to you & your whole family.
xxo
Your thread is such a ray of sunshine for all of us still struggling. I am so disappointed in my H yet somewhere I keep thinking he has snapped and he'll return by then I think I am crazy for believing that this situation can have a happy ending. Your post has shown me it does happen.
Thank you for sharing.
I need a little attitude adjustment :-)
Everything has been going great!
H & I have been working on getting our house ready for sale and I listed it 2 days ago. Yesterday I had 3 showings on it!
B/c I knew there w/b a lot of activity on it I declined to go to a wine share event with H yesterday evening.
Well, H wanted to go and stay out all night with his guy friends, I said I wasn't comfortable with that, and that's all I said about it. H told his guy friends "she doesn't like the idea" but went anyway.
I don't exactly know what they did but I know H stayed over his friend's house in the guest room.
He texted this morning and said he is on his way home.
Problem is....my emotions are high...feeling sad...remembering bad times during MLC. I am not a guy. I am not a guy who went through a MLC. I don't understand why a guy would do this.
I am positive H isn't hiding anything. I am positive he is in love with me. But for some reason he wanted to show his independence.
So....how do I receive H when he comes home? I feel a small amount of bitterness. I stayed and showed our house and he went and partied.
rh,
When he returns home, just go about your business and don't jump on him the minute he walks in the door. At some point, you will need to sit down w/him and advise him why you weren't comfortable w/him going. Honesty is the best policy and you are in a new relationship w/him. Don't come off sounding like his mother, but point out that you still have some issues w/what he did during his mlcing days and state that it's going to take some time for you to learn to trust him again.
His partying may be one of those traits that he will retain now that he's back at home. Some do retain traits that they acquired during their crisis and others don't.
You can do this...breathe and stay calm.
Hi RH, I'm sorry that night was tough for you. I like the advice job posted to you.
H doesn't stay out overnight often, right? So unless it's a deal breaker for you, you have to let it go. Like you said, you're confident he's not hiding anything, and that he truly loves you. Talk to him about it, (remember timing is everything!) but show him love. Everyone likes to be loved.
Hi guys!
Just a quick update so you know things are going along smoothly again!
I took job's advice (thank you!!!) and was low key when H came in. He was NOT distant and was very loving.
I, however, felt distant, but was kind. He asked if I didn't feel well and I said I was just sad because I wished he hadn't stayed out all night.
He told me what they did (clubs, drinking but not to excess, etc.). We worked together in harmony on different home projects.
Mid-morning H looked at me and said "I'm never going to drink again. (with fervor) I NEVER want to feel this way again!" I have never heard him say anything like that. It has always been "I'll drink more water next time."
I doubt that is exactly true that he will never drink again, but of course I didn't say that! That was Saturday and this is Tuesday and he hasn't had a drop and seems very content.
It just made me realize the wisdom of letting people figure stuff out on their own!
There was no emotional games played out here. I didn't punish him for being out all night and he didn't seem guilty or anything.
I got an email yesterday from him inviting me to a "party of 2" at a very nice restaurant for Valentine's Day.
* * * * * * *
I reflected this morning on our journey.
I realized that at times H & I feel like one person we are so close. I think this is that "higher love" he spoke to me of in a diner 2 weeks before expected D in December of 2012.
I realized that in time people discover and grow to who they want to be and I am fortunate that my H wanted to heal and grow.
* * * * * * *
In other news, we have moved to a 1 acre property and last Thursday I put our dome home on the market. I had numerous showings all weekend from myself and other realtors. The response was overwhelming!
By Sunday night I had 4 offers and one was full price, cash, as-is (so no inspection issues) closing ASAP but might take a couple of weeks. H & I are so grateful!
We worked hard over the years so had no mortgage on the house. We are making plans what to do with the money...accomplishing some goals and dreams...I see the light in my H's eyes and a contentment beyond words.
* * * * * *
Thank you to all who have helped me along this journey
Thank you so much job and Forever for helping me to see this party-event from my H to be the small thing it was.
Thank you, 123Gwen, nero, seaspin, AJM, 2BHappy for the posts of encouragement!
* * * * * *
I have completed one year of being a real estate agent so now I am no longer "provisional". I have more confidence, more knowledge and I wasn't one of the 90% that didn't make their first year! So happy and moving on to a great new 2015!!!
Bravo! I'm so happy for you. Try to remember that even though marriage brings two people today as one, you still have to accept that each party will individual hobbies, likes and dislikes. Each person has to take the time to grow individually as well as together.
Congratulations on the home sale and I'm very proud of you in the fact that it's been a year now and your real estate experience and accomplishments are soaring and will continue to soar!
Such a great success story!
All the best for you and your husband. I truly appreciate you taking the time to post. It helps me think that maybe someday H will want to try to reconcile.
Hello all!
Just read my last update.
Our cash buyer for our dome home did 2 extensions of contract so that it was under contract for 60 days. Then the night before closing he texted the other realtor and said he wasn’t going to get it. I waited a couple of days and put it on the market again, securing another contract. Then the original cash buyer changed his mind and wants it again. Such a drama!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Had an awkward situation with H this weekend.
H told me last week he had something to run by me. That always means I won't agree.
He wanted to take a female colleague out for a drink. This is a woman that he used to work closely with but she moved away about a year ago. I was so relieved!
H told me she, at that time, was about to start her own MLC. They were very, very close. She had attended drinking parties with him. The three of us dressed up for Halloween a year and a half ago and H got totally smashed and acted VERY inappropriately with her in front of me. So much that I had to pull him off of her and tell him her H wouldn't appreciate that.
We also have been out together (the 3 of us) and H wouldn't touch me (hold hands or put his arm around me) in case she might feel uncomfortable.
Well she was back in town for this past weekend and somehow they came up with the idea of the 2 of them going out for a drink. I said if your W isn't welcome or you don't want to bring this girl to our house b/c our boys don't like her (which is true) then something is wrong.
So here's how it went. I had an Open House to run in the afternoon. The girl arrived at our house at 6 pm. I purposely avoided coming home until 9:30 pm. I really felt it wouldn't go well with me here. I was already feeling highly annoyed.
So H and girl went in man cave and drank beer for 2 1/2 hours. No texts from H during this time. Boys were in the house and very upset.
H doesn't feel he did anything wrong. I told him today I felt like I never wanted him to do that again. It was a terrible example to the boys and I didn't agree with it.
H just listened to me. I know he doesn't agree with me.
It's not like I have a problem him being alone with women that are mutual friends of ours but these drinking women...always have a sexual undercurrent and that bothers me. And the fact I know she doesn't like me or want me around. The boys have hated it when she visited H at our other house but I was always there.
I find her incredibly boring and bordering on stupid with nothing in common with me. The boys say she has the "drunken laugh" whether or not she has been drinking.
And when I went to her and H's goodbye lunch at an expensive steakhouse last year (just the 3 of us...me obviously being the 3rd wheel)...I left to the parking lot or bathroom or something to give them some time alone. When they said goodbye in the parking lot, I had my head turned. H said she gave him the "never gonna let you go" hug and cried. And H was morose for days.
I know men and women can be friends and maybe nothing inappropriate went on but I still feel angry. I have almost zero compassion for him.
Justified?
I wouldn't have liked that situation either. If there is nothing going on, then they should have: 1)had a drink or two in the kitchen/living room area (out in the open and not in the "man cave"), where they can be seen and/or heard by the boys if they should be on their way out; 2)gone somewhere public such as a bar or café where they were out in the open; or 3)should have waited until you were there to meet up. This kind of situation, i.e., drinking and partying by themselves could lead to something else.
The meet up may have been innocent, but it doesn't provide a good example to your sons of how people should behave when a spouse is not around. To me, both of them were disrespectful to you because I'm sure they both knew how you felt about this type of behavior.
I certainly would stand by my boundaries and she wouldn't be allowed in my house unless I was there, no matter whether I was the third wheel or not.
Just my two cents.
Thanks, job! Always bringing me back to earth.
RH, he knows how you feel about this woman, so, he should have honored your feelings.
It is not ok for either of them to disrespect you, especially in your home.
Trust your gut, R. This is a boundary he needs to stick to.
Thank you, UR. Always so helpful!
It is so hard to know...I feel I am super-sensitive in this area and wanted to put this situation out there to gauge whether I am overreacting or not.
I actually said to H "you live in a different world than me". Its almost that "last straw" feeling. Not like I am ready to leave but tired of making allowances for his behavior.
Most of the time things are good. But I know the boys feel he is still "checked out" when it comes to them. H does seem to think about only himself all the time. He has come out of a lot of MLC behaviors but somehow hasn't grown up past, say a 25-year old stage. And I would like to be married to a grown man.
Reaching, I'm going to be even more blunt. If a spouse knows the other spouse wouldn't like it, then it is considered disrespectful and unkind. I'm reading " Love Busters ".
One of the headings..." Habits That Bother Your Spouse Unintentionally Withdraw Love Units ".
Now this may or may not be a habit, but it is certainly a repeated pattern of behavior. Under the heading is this following quote: " The bottom line is that a couple who wants to stay in love must pay close attention to the way they affect each other... whether it is intentional or not , a couple's behavior will affect the love they have for each other.
So if one spouse finds some of the other's habits annoying they simply have to go. Otherwise their marriage won't be what either one of them wants it to be. "
My gut says this was an affair, maybe not physical but emotional. It is wrong, period. As for men and women being friends, yeeeeah NO!
If she is attractive in any way shape or form, then the man in him sees it, and has normal sexual urges. To tempt oneself by allowing an emotionally intimate relationship to develop, is begging trouble. It is putting his taker before the marriage and your relationship.
I believe you said the were extremely close...THAT is emotional intimacy. It means one or the other or both chose to be vulnerable with the other. THIS is part of the definition of intimacy!!
I go to church with a man called Col. Oliver North. You may or may not have heard of him. He is a very very attractive, physically fit man. He has been married for over 35 years! He goes out of his way to have a male assistant with him at all times ; when he is in the Middle East, or traveling within the U.S.
He does book tours and is constantly meeting women. He purposely does this so he is NEVER alone or tempted by other women! He is committed to his marriage and his wife!! He has set up a preventative measure to preserve his relationship and marriage because it is his priority. It is valuable and special. He doesn't want it jeopardized.
If you haven't read " Love Busters ". I strongly urge you to. This is supposed to be a new relationship and a new marriage. If this was a different person, not someone with whom you've been married, would this be acceptable to you? If so , why? If not why?
I would ask the person, why do you feel the need to have drinks with this woman, alone, out of the eyesight of the children or me? What is this relationship giving you, and what do you contribute to it? Perhaps not in that manner, but it is something which should be addressed. Why? Because you don't like it! Period!!
One of the things I've learned from all the reading I've done... If in a serious relationship but more importantly , if in a marriage, I should ask myself this: Is what I'm doing , or what I want, good for the marriage? As a couple it should be, is it good for us/our marriage?
Part of being married is to learn the balance of how to handle the giver and the taker in ourselves. Without that balance there is going to be conflict. We have boundaries and limits to what we feel will be good for us and our marriage.
It is so easy to say, I will not share my body with someone other than you, my husband. It is more difficult to say, I will not become emotionally intimate with another man. Perhaps for some it is easy , but others may find it more difficult. This is about keeping oneself only for the other. Not coming between another couple, nor allowing another individual to come between your relationship either!!!
This is where I draw a firm line in the sand. This is where he , I believe is testing you and with what he will be allowed to feed his taker in himself.
Sorry if this is so long. It really hit a nerve with me. And yes, Reaching, I'm taking a second hand offense. Why? Because I know how long and hard you have worked on this relationship. I know YOU are committed to it. I'm just not so sure about him. Too many red flags waving and it makes me very uncomfortable.
I'm a forgiver by nature. I know how difficult it is not to feel for another. To have too much empathy. I still struggle with this. It is easier from the outside to see things and apologize for them, than when on the inside and in love.
You have a gut feeling here , and I've learned to listen to my gut for so far it hasn't been wrong. As for the mind reading, that is why I'd ask the questions. I sure hope this is something that is brought up in counseling. I believe he is taking advantage of you. I'm not convinced that he is still in MLC but is or has become a selfish individual. Too many things just don't seem right. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. It just seems to me, that you are the one doing the work, and he is the one taking. You appreciate everything he does, but his actions to me seem disrespectful and self centered.
I hope I haven't offended you. It is certainly not my intent. I just care for you, and I know I would not do this to the man I love, if he didn't want me to do so. I wouldn't purposely disregard his feelings. For my relationship and marriage would take priority over a " friendship ". Hugs and a pump <3
I have to agree that his behavior was unacceptable. He knew your feelings, and even if he didn't, the behavior is inappropriate regardless. I am trying to picture what would happen if I were that woman "friend". For one, I would not go over to a married man's house when the wife wasn't there... period. And being in a separate closed off room from the rest of the house, nope.
I could certainly understand if you were there, and you all hung out together.
Have you brought it up with him at all yet? Is he receptive when you try to talk to him about it?
~(formerly chasingpavements)
I'm sorry Reaching. I know this behavior has hurt and disappointed you.
Much Love,
Heather
It is so hard to know...I feel I am super-sensitive in this area and wanted to put this situation out there to gauge whether I am overreacting or not.
Hey, rH, I would have the same feelings and thoughts. My H used to tell me that is not a big deal with him having communication, drinks, etc. with single women when I was not there. He brought our massage therapist and her GF to stay with him at the condo once, when I was not there. It raised some eyebrows and I was not happy about it. But he said that I had the issues, being jealous and clingy. I thought that it WAS my issue… Until I told this to some women and the reaction was that they would never allow their husbands to do that. It was just plain disrespectful to me.
So, I don’t think you are wrong about your feelings. I don’t understand what it is with these guys (my H and your H), don’t they get it… Yes, you are right, it was probably him thinking about himself only, and not thinking about other people’s feelings… People who are the closest to him, you and your kids.
The only one thing that I see could rehabilitate him in this situation is that he invited her to the house, and not to some bar, away from everybody. I think it was his way showing that he has nothing to hide. Nevertheless, I still think it is stupid and disrespectful. Hopefully he got the message when you told him that you didn’t like this one bit.
Hello friends!!
Wanted to bring an update on my sitch.
It has been a turbulent year in many ways.
Over these summer months, particularly since we took a family vacation to the Keys in July, I have felt angry toward H.
I don’t know how to describe it other than that. I slowed my real estate business down to take care of some household things that have piled up over these MLC years. I probably am behind around 5 years in some paperwork, cleaning, etc.
We moved one year ago and that took a lot since we were moving from 20 acres to 1 acre and I acted the realtor for both transactions. So I was very busy—and it took an emotional toll.
We moved our stuff here but I haven’t sorted, purged, organized, etc. even if it looks neat.
So…this summer I decided it was time to spend a few weeks and tidy my nest to my satisfaction. We have the money to redecorate our new abode and have bought a few pieces of furniture and redid our living room floor in stained/stamped concrete to look like wood tile. It came out totally gorgeous & no one can ever guess its concrete! Kinda fun project as my idea was concrete will be the floor of the future!!!
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Somehow, something mentally, (perhaps in conjunction with clearing out old possessions in the house) I felt it was time to clear the decks. So after years of patience, compassion and understanding for H—I feel angry. At times VERY angry. I haven’t let it all out of course. We have had a few arguments, at times intense. I haven’t accompanied him on as many social events as I felt I often went to keep an eye on him and I’m tired of doing that.
So we’ve had some rough spots. He came home one Friday evening at 1 am after partying with some single friends. On another occasion, he rode his new motorcycle after having drinks with a friend 2 days after he promised me he would never do that.
So this week we did MC. B/c of our insurance we saw the counselor separately. He went for counseling alone first, then we did lunch together, then I went. We did identify a few things. Not enough to keep seeing her but enough to see what is going on.
I planned some activities for us this weekend then I got very pissy Friday night and didn’t do what we had planned—we just argued instead.
H told me to get all this anger out and then to not let it bother us in our R any more.
The realtors I work with have been pressuring me not to take any time off as they are worried I am depressed.
What is strange about the job is that now I am backing off and not chasing any business—it is coming to me! I have 3 deals going on right now—none of which I pursued — they came to me.
Every transaction I have done this year has been cash payment. Our company trainer said thoughtfully this week “Hmmm….you’re attracting cash”. I don’t know what that means but I’m becoming proficient with cash buyers. And my listings all have cash buyers.
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About the anger—it is not hatred. It is anger. Anger of what H did and how he hurt me. I saw more pics on FB of him with girls during our separation...pics while he was sitting in their laps, stuff like that. It makes me angry.
The counselor said I need to be warm and forgiving. I don’t feel warm and forgiving. I want her to tell me HOW to feel forgiving and she can’t do that.
H and I went to an outdoor concert this past Weds that he invited me to. We saw some of his friends from the FAA and sat with them. I hadn’t met them before but they were easy to be with. I felt loving and warm and myself. I felt friendly and great and flirty with H.
What H and I did this weekend was we spent Saturday together after arguing Friday night. We went to the State Fair on Saturday and then to a party with some mostly new friends and a couple people from H’s old party group. But I felt fabulous. I acted just how I would act and didn’t worry about H at all. We were perfect together. Just perfect.
It seems that I get freaked out when he is with his party friends from the MLC period, especially the girls. I just can’t take it, whether he is with them and I am not there or if he is with them and I am there.
H doesn’t understand this, I don’t understand it, and MC doesn’t understand. It shuts me down emotionally.
Everything else seems to be fine. Its just this one area and H doesn’t seem to be willing to give up the occasional meeting with them. It runs from 2 or 3 times a week to once every two weeks.
He told me they want to rent a party bus and then go on a cruise next spring. He is so excited. I told him I would rather have a root canal. He is willing to forego the cruise to make me happy but would love to go.
He and I are talking about a vacation of our own next spring. I noticed he was very excited about talking about it with me but has not mentioned it to his MLC friends.
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H looks SO different. He has grown his hair out so is several inches of golden curls. He drove our S15 to a school event in a very nice neighborhood recently. He had his baseball cap on backwards and was playing what he told me was “gansta” music loudly in his convertible Mustang. A lady walking her dog in the neighborhood told him to slow down that there were kids and dogs in the neighborhood.
He stopped and asked the speed limit. She said 25 mph. He said “I am going 25 mph”. I am sure she was just freaked out by his appearance.
It has take a LOT a LOT to get used to this new person that people used to ask me if he was a pastor.
H’s drinking is MUCH MUCH less. Only a day or two a week now. There is so much progress.
This is such a long road.
I wasn’t sure we could work it out or would want to but I see light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks for listening
Comments are welcomed and read and re-read
Hi ReachingHigher-thank you so much for posting an update! You are an inspirational woman! Job turned me onto your threads and I am reading through them.
I have no advice to offer, but I want you to know that I have learned so much from your posts.
I am curious if your H remembers any of what happened to him? If so, does he know what triggered it? (Long shot I know.). Also, does he feel like he too is getting used to a new you?
I'm glad you returned to post an update. I'm sorry that things haven't been the best for you and that the anger is just now starting to bubble forth. You've bottled up your anger for a very long time and now it's got to come out. You are angry because of the way he treated you and your family during his crisis. You are angry that he's still connected to the MLC crowd and doing things w/them. You are angry that he's still acting out and behaving like a teenager (at times) and I think you are somewhat angry that he didn't revert back to the old h completely. rH, he may never be the man you knew and loved pre-crisis. If he's completely thru his crisis, then it sounds like he's kept some of the behaviors/quirks from his crisis.
I want to pose a question to you and I want you to think about it before you answer it, okay? Are you sure he's out of crisis? The things he's doing and the MLC crowd that he's hanging with gives me the impression that he's still got one foot in the crisis pond and one foot in the real world. Generally, when they complete their crisis, they do not stay connected with the people that they hung around with during that time.
Your expectations have been high and he's not met them for you. Try to dial down those expectations because he's still acting out like a teenager. You are now dealing w/the emotional fallout of his crisis and it's going to take you some time to feel like yourself again. It sounds like your MC doesn't have a clue how MLC affects the marriage and the LBS. You may want to consider switching from the MC and going to IC instead, but that's my opinion.
As for your professional life, only you can determine just how much you can handle right now. The people you work w/are seeing only the $$$ signs and want you to continue raking in the cash. If you want to dial down on the sales, then dial down because you know how you feel.
Please take care of yourself.
Hello HaWho!
And thank you for responding. I am so glad there is some hope you can glean from some of my threads—I posted a lot — kudos for trying to make sense of it all!
At this point, my H and I talk about the MLC like we both pretty much understand it to be the same thing—we are on the same page.
We have gone over the triggers, activities, and so on many times. It wasn’t until recently that he acknowledged that when his only sibling died in 2007 that it was a major trigger for him.
At the time of MLC I heard this a lot from him, “I don’t know what has happened to me
“
There is much he doesn’t remember from the MLC days, particularly the part where he was starting out on replay. I mentioned to him recently how he used to get dressed very nicely in the evening in fall of 2011 to go out to bars, parties and events hoping to pick up a woman. He would ask me how his shoes looked, if his pants look okay, etc. “It was so twisted” I said to him. He looked at me blankly.
No, I don’t think he feels like he is getting used to a new me. He sees me as he always has—stable, domestic, responsible and trustworthy.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Thank you, job, ever faithful to help!
I have wondered many times about him not being done with his crisis.
He understands a lot about MLC at this point. He doesn’t think he is done with it either. I sometimes wonder since he didn’t get an OW that he came back a little too early to complete his transformation.
He sent me an email about two months ago and it triggered my anger, I think. It was almost an ultimatum, although he said he didn’t mean it that way. He said there were a lot of things (he listed them) that he was doing now and he wasn’t planning on stopping them. They aren’t so earth-shattering but just very different from the way he used to be. Certainly all within a mostly-normal marriage parameter—but just the new him.
So I guess, job, you nailed it with my expectations being too high.
H & I talked recently during these arguments and identified that he probably always wanted to be the way he is now—just never allowed himself. So this MLC—was truly an “identity crisis” for him. My job is to accept him the way he is (I actually have been doing IC and she said that I need to decide to accept him or not). If I choose not to accept him, its over.
My gut feeling is that some of the behaviors will atrophy after time, and some will stick. He seems very happy most of the time which he never used to even when we were just dating. At that time he was only happy when he was with me. Now he seems content with all of his life—interested in lots of different hobbies, events, and activities. Like he has really come alive with interest in life. All my realtor friends envy me b/c my H cares about his appearance—works out at the gym, takes care how he looks and always is willing to do different activities with me. He takes care of me and the boys, makes great money and is faithful. He constantly tells me I don’t have to work but he sees I like the job and it gets me out there to meet people and have fun events, etc.
I know he sounds ideal, I’m just struggling b/c it isn’t the man I married. I feel like I need a couple months of mulling over my new marriage. I never allowed myself to do this before. Too busy with taking care of everything and everyone else.
Its like I need to accept emotionally at a place deep, deep inside. My H is giving my time and space to do this. He has been very understanding. My IC said many men don’t want to do MC and H was eager to do it. He would do pretty much whatever it takes to make our M work — except give up who he is. He feels that was the purpose of his identity crisis to find out who he is and live that way—not according to anyone else’s expectations.
He apologized again to me recently with choking voice about how he wished he hadn’t hurt me and the boys so badly.
But the boys are doing very well. I would say that everyone is pretty much healed or in the process of healing except me. Its kinda like when they come back—you are the last one he connects with. Maybe I’m the last one to heal also.
I feel I am ready for healing. I’m ready for this chapter of my life to draw to a close. If my H is still acting in teenage ways occasionally—i’ll accept it—it keeps him young and fun and he acts responsibly in the important areas.
He will be 50 in two years and I think he will settle down more by then.
I do also see as I grow—he grows. I vaguely remember something maybe in Hearts’ Blessing posts about that. I noticed this weekend on Sunday I pulled my car out to detail it (don’t do it very often at all) and H cleaned the WHOLE garage. I spent only a few hours on the car and he spent all day on the garage. Normally he would mostly be looking at his computer tablet or out with friends.
So, I feel the healing is in my hands—I heal; we heal.
Thank you again for posting to me.
Expectations will be dialed down.
I’m going to work on me.
rH,
I do understand what you are saying about he's different. Some do return w/behaviors/quirks from their time in crisis. Whether they are good or bad will depend upon how you look at them. Are they deal breakers? Can you learn to live w/them? Do you feel uncomfortable w/the new him? If you find that you can't accept him for who he is now, you may have to make some decisions down the road. However, I think it is still a bit early to toss in the towel on him.
Having a MLCer return home, even if they return a bit early, it's difficult to readjust because you are expecting them to jump right back into the old relationship and pick up right where you left off. Both of you have changed quite a bit and now you both have come back together and it's difficult because both of you have to complete the healing process. Expectations from the lbs run high, disappointments come into play because the expectations aren't being met. We want them to be the way they were pre-crisis and that is not always the case. Some come out new and improved, others are strangers to us until they settle down and then...there are those who never return. He's still got a ways to go before he completes the "acceptance stage". He's saying the right things, but some of his actions say he's still wanting to play in the crisis pool for a bit longer. rH, keep the expectations dialed down to zero. Okay? Once the "acceptance stage" has been completed, there is one more stage and that stage is him settling into his own skin. This could take anywhere from 18-24 months.
I'm glad you are seeing an IC and hopefully he can help you work through your healing process. Take all of the time and space that you need to heal. Don't allow anyone to rush your progress. Okay?
Happy New Year to all!!!
2015 was a year I had a lot of anger. I have worked through most of it—still some here and there. It was a signal I needed to do more work on myself. So I have been. I have instituted the Miracle Morning as a morning routine for myself including meditation, affirmations, visualizations, exercise, reading and journaling. I love it! It is an investment in myself.
I start the new year out today, January 1, with a freshly signed real estate contract in my hand—a harbinger of good to come this year.
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H and I are working things out little by little. He and I have identified his life time periods of change:
H as a late teen/early 20’s
H as a working professional (meets and marries me)
H as a family man (2 kids)
H in MLC, marital separation (cycles back to teens)
H now (he told me yesterday he is now all 3 of those people—he is fully integrated)
So now life is getting used to this new person I am married to—kind of familiar—kind of unfamiliar. And pouring time and energy into myself. And parenting my two boys by teaching them to make decisions and prepare them for life on their own (ages 22 and 16).
H & I have taken a few dancing lessons together at a studio. That is going pretty well.
We also took a romantic three day weekend at a cabin in October. Same town and same Columbus Day weekend as we went to 4 years ago in 2011 when he was just about to embark fully into "replay" phase and had just told me ILYBINILWY. This year, 2015, it was an incredibly loving and close time for the two of us.
These last two years, H had grown his hair several inches long—told me this week he will be cutting half of it off.
He bought a sailboat two months ago and is preparing all this winter for sailing this summer. There is a local boat club on a large lake he has applied to. He has made it clear it is OUR boat and OUR club. He wants to take me on a sailboat vacation in the Caribbean in 2017.
He thinks nothing of dropping money on any entertainment with me—expensive dinners, shows, etc. He sent me a certificate for a massage for Christmas among other gifts.
He sometimes acts more of a teenager, and then other times the professional or the family man.
He got trashed at a party we went to together mid-December—worst I have ever seen him, but then he hardly drank a drop for two weeks and skipped another party where he knew there would be a lot of alcohol. Instead, he took me and S16 and family friend to tour some Christmas lights in a park.
At Halloween, he and I dressed up as Jeannie and Major Nelson and went to a crowded party. I was talking to a man probably not longer than 5 minutes and H shows up and puts his arm around me and says “Now is time for my best Caddyshack line —What are you doing talking to my best girl?” or something along those lines.
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I have lots of romance, no financial worries, but I do have a husband who is in many ways very different from whom I married.
I have a very good relationship with both of my boys. They seem to have let their guard down a lot with H and seem to enjoy spending time with him again.
I asked myself the other day if I was happy. I was pulling into our garage. And I thought—being with H feels like home. Yes, it is very different. Yes we have been through so much. But we have been together a long time and treat each other very well—and—he just feels like home to me.
Happy, happy new year—take courage and hope in your life!
Wishing you all the very best 2016 !!!
Happy New Year to you and your family!
Some wake up and are the same and others wake up and continue to keep some of their habits that they've picked up during their journey. Your h sounds like the latter type.
I'm glad things are slowly working out for you. It takes a lot of time to release that anger and also to rediscover the people that you both have become. Just remember...it's a new marriage and you both changed during the time of his crisis.
I'm very happy for you. You worked very hard to get to where you are today.
RH, it's so nice to hear from you, thanks for the update.
I'm happy you and H are getting on well. Like you, I too feel like I am at home with my W. It's hard to imagine wanting to be anywhere else, and it's obvious she feels the same way, so I figure it's up to us to work out the little details. It sounds like thais is exactly what you guys are doing.
Dance lessons and a romantic cabin weekend? I'm envious!
I tried growing my hair longer but it didn't work out... too bushy and curly so I cut it off... but hey, it was worth a try!
I'm wishing you and your Major Nelson a very happy new year!