I have been a bit low lately. The 'excitement' of h being here and staying here to going right back to how it was as soon as he left - yep- it affected me. It's like it never happened.
I was reading on another thread - BF was writing about layers of detachment. I agree tha we go through journey in stages. Like peeling the layers off of an onion as I have seen Bug write several times. I feel like I have been through two big stages of detachment. The initial one that detachs us from the actual present sitch .. The second one that detachs us from the relationship as a whole, from the past the future we thought we were going to have, etc.
I feel I have done that. I think many of us have. I feel like it's time to take it further for myself. And actually detach from the man himself. I don't know if that makes sense? In my head it does lol -
So here I go.
yes, Busting. I am seeing, learning, more and more of what you mean.
I know in my head that detox from this man is what I need to do. Lately, I have been telling myself over and again, he does not care, he does not care. I am trying to convince myself of this. I have found it hard to accept, to believe, BUT it is his actions...
oh, he cares for me as a human being, but he no longer cares to be part of our family. I know this. I have to accept this.
I have to become ok. it is just the way it is. The new reality I know I have fought, I have tried.
I did not want to be another statistic. But this is where I find myself.
keep posting
WBW I understand what you are saying.
Thank you for coming here :-)
I'm feeling 'tired' and I want to feel more positive again.
I am feeling increasingly negative about my sitch.
Since h left the last time he told me that he felt I treated him differently while he was is Dubai. It bothered him. So I thought about this and he was right. And I knew/ know it's because I associate him being away with the affair. Did/ does he not see that ? Maybe not. So when I responded to him I told him.
Anyway for the past two days h has been MIA. I know in my heart it's because of v day and the weekend combined . And I feel done in a way I have not yet felt. I am not yet sure if this is a reaction or a response. I do know that it's getting harder for me to dig deep. MY reality? I am good. I am happy. I am lonely. I want to share my kids with someone - share myself.
I hoped that there were baby steps from him. Maybe they are/were. But him going MIA only leads me to one thought- he has decided to run again.
I don't know if the baby steps have any merit. I'm trying to balance understanding him and watching his actions . I am also wondering what am I doing now. I need help - I need perspective. I see a lost man - having his cake and eating it - I see sparks of hope- and the dying embers of a man I believe (d) in.
My kids are suffering - am I still doing the best for them by standing? And me. What about me?
Are these baby steps worth focusing on rather than his MIA behaviour of the past two days?
Busting, I think I’ve got yourself into expectations again. He made some steps and it raised your hopes up. Patience, my friend. This ups and downs are to be expected. If I remember correctly you said that he told your Mom that he took divorce off the table, right? I think it was a big step for him. I don’t think he would have done it lightly. If his affair is coming to an end, it is still going to take time for him to withdraw. He might be in contact with OW back and forth until he can completely cure himself.
Also, if you mentioned his affair to him recently, it could be the reason for him go MIL. I’m sure he has tremendous amount of guilt.
Relax and breath. Take care of yourself and your kids. You are doing the best you can for them. And you want the their dad to be the best too. Right now he cannot be the best dad for them. You just have to be patient.
Thank you bright. You are so right about the expectations .,so right. And you are right - I do want. To be the best dad for them too. He is not ready to be that man. I need to be my absolute best for the kids. I can't so that when I let my heart be heavy.
I know part of my current struggle is also that I am lonely. Day in and day out over the years raising the kids, growing from this sitch , and no one to share my life with, to support my kids with, it's hitting me harder these days. I very been making an effort to see friends when I can to counter the feelings. But sometimes , you know, I just want someone to watch tv with. I feel that is so far away.
My D6- she was doing a little better but she has problems with h still. She won't talk to him (if/when) he calls and she looks at other moms and dads in wonder. I so badly want to show her what a healthy relationship can look like in a marriage. I want her to know what it's like to have a father ( figure?) that loves his family first.
On another note- we went to a school fair yesterday and S9 won me a stuffed heart for valentines day. So sweet.
Thank you bright again- you have helped me to slow the spin I was getting into.
You are a good friend. Thank you again x
I too go back and forth with these feelings. the spinning
some days I think I am done. other days I am amazed at the script. I still don't want d, so I wait.
h was mia too for v day. his bday is next week. the kids will be disappointed if he leaves town( he travels a lot with his job) h will say, just another day. kids see it differently.
I have wanted to ask h about the status of ow. is she still in the pic. I know it doesn't matter really.
yes, our hearts at times are heavy. but the joy, the sweetness of our children, that is the prize.
They really are the prize, I agree completely Willbewell.
I know what you mean about the OW. It shouldn't 'matter' but ... It does.
I have been thinking about if I should be starting to 'do something different'
My MO has been to keep doing what I am doing- as also you have all supported and encouraged.
Him going MIA though was so ' start of the sitch MLC' after a slow slow progression forward- it made me think I need to change things. What do to all think? Although as I am writing this I can almost answer that :
He might have run back in the tunnel after positive steps and interactions as of late. So changing things may not help.
Any thoughts?
Busting,
I panicked last summer when Smokey went back into the tunnel. And, I will forever wonder if I set him off for an even deeper dig. He is now MIA to the point where he is invisible. Take a look at my last thread and the latest events.
Slow down, breathe and let him find his way. Focus on you. Two steps forward, three steps back. This isn't a cut and dried getting from Point A to Point B. Wish it was!!
Hi my dear friend,
I am sorry to come and read that you are struggling lately...
I can totally relate to what you are feeling and going through now....
You are so right about the expectations .,so right.
I think it's just human for you to have gotten your hopes up when you saw some positive behaviors from your H... Yet that's a result from keeping your focus on him, on what he says and what he does... His actions still affecting your emotions and behavior - can you see this as still codependent?
You also know that when we keep the focus on them, we remain stuck and POWERLESS.
And you are right - I do want. To be the best dad for them too. He is not ready to be that man.
Do you recognize your need to control here? You cannot make him be anything or do anything. His R with his kids is his only, not yours to fix. You have to find acceptance in the fact that he is not going to be the father you want him to be - because at least for now (and the last couple of years), it has not been what you would like. And perhaps it never will... What if that is the case? Will you live the rest of your life letting his R with your kids affect you?
Your kids are watching and they are very perceptive. They sense your sadness and disappointment. They are already struggling and perhaps subconsciously they are feeding off from the vibe they might be getting from you. IDK...
I need to be my absolute best for the kids. I can't so that when I let my heart be heavy.
This ^^^^^ is the answer and where ALL your focus should be.
By just accepting what is today, by GALing and living in the present - really, really focusing in the present and all the good you have, you will be the best FOR YOU and therefore, for your kids.
I know part of my current struggle is also that I am lonely. Day in and day out over the years raising the kids, growing from this sitch , and no one to share my life with, to support my kids with, it's hitting me harder these days. I very been making an effort to see friends when I can to counter the feelings. But sometimes , you know, I just want someone to watch tv with. I feel that is so far away.
Busting, my dear, dear friend. I also feel lonely. We both have been at this for so long. I tell myself that this is part of the grieving process... So when these feelings invade me, I go back to asking myself the hard questions:
Is this loneliness affecting me to the point of wanting to change things?
I am getting closer to deciding closing the door - but is it time yet?
I have read that people don't change their circumstances until the rewards of change outweigh the pain of continuing with the status quo...
And that is the hard question for those standing - am I ready to change because my pain is just too much that I cannot continue with my current course of action?
Only you can answer that.
But it's important to keep asking ourselves, because that is what taking care of YOU means... To make sure that you are acting in a way that will make you happy.
Only you will know if standing is still worth it.
And in that self-reflection it's important to really, really ask ourselves what are we really standing for:
- For the return of the man our husband currently is, or the idealized version that we made in our minds.
- Is it even possible for that version we remember (or want) to ever come back after all this time and all that has happened?
- Did that version ever exist?
- Or are we standing for the notion of "the intact family" that we always dreamed of?
The more time passes, the more I question these things...
Because like you, at the end of the day I want (AND DESERVE) to be in a loving, healthy R with someone. I think I have learned enough from this life lesson to offer a much healthier version of me for my next R.
And I deserve someone to love me 100% and someone that will treat me like #1 and someone who shares my same goals in a R.
(And I am not sure anymore that my H will ever be able to offer me that anymore even if he ever came back...)
And so when you get down and sad and lonely, ask yourself - Is my current course of action, and all this pain worth it?
If the answer is still "yes"
then take a deep breathe,
dig deeper,
accept what is,
get your focus back on making the best of your CURRENT life
and make yourself happy.
If the answer is "not anymore"
then it's time to make a change.
Either way, TAKE CONTROL of your situation and make yourself (and your kids) happy with what your life is TODAY.
((((((((((((((busting)))))))))))))
Keep_going, beautiful post! Thank you.
KG-- (((((())))) thank you for your post. I am going to re read and think about what you asked and come back. These are some hard questions I need to ask myself. Without fear.
Thank you xxx
It's okay to fear them Busting. These are NOT easy questions.
It's a matter on if you are allowing those fears to paralyze you.
Trust me... you will find the answers you are looking for exactly when you are supposed to.
Stay strong my friend.. for looking at the mirror this long and this hard does not come without reward. You just have to be strong enough to grab it!
Busting,
Your expectation level crept up just a wee bit when he was showing a few baby steps. Drop the expectation level. Your h disappeared not only because of VD and the weekend, but they generally do run back up into the rabbit hole if they get too close to the spouse and feel comfortable around them. This is very typical behavior. It's the one step forward, two steps back.
When they get too comfortable around us and are reminded of what they had in the way of love, home, family, etc., they drop their guard. Unfortunately, that wonderful feeling doesn't last long once they are on their own again. They begin to see their old life and they don't want to go back to that way of life, so they fight those wonderful feelings and have to put distance between us. It's all normal for them to come forward, nibble a few kernals of love and then disappear again.
I think you've been doing a good job of balancing things. The best thing you can do is leave him alone and if he wants to venture forth into your world, be kind to him. He's got a ways to go before he realizes what he stands to lose.
Keep the baby steps in the back of your mind...don't worry about the MIA status. It's very normal. Lower your expectations and continue moving forward. Live your life as if he may not return. Keep the focus on you and your children.
Try to stay positive. Okay?
I don't want to hijack anything here, but Job if you read this, can you check out my latest thread titled: "Something Is Wrong With Me"? Just asking because you've given me a lot of help and would like to know your thoughts.
Tad
thank you keepgoing for your posts. It gives me much to think about as well.
Busting,I think we do make the bast of our current sits. We are up everyday doing for our children. When we can, we do for ourselves too. Painful it is,but We are not wallowing in pain. We know our joys.
I had been contemplating recently, did I make it all up in my head? no, there were good and great things about h. It was not a fantasy,not all of it. Has he been the best h or father? no.
But really I did think we had a pretty good thing. I think the kids and I are still a pretty good thing.
I can see too how I would like to 'control' the situation. However, in reality, I have so little control. I would LOVE, for h to take on, that responsibility. To see the impact of his choices on his kids. He doesn't want to see it.
You know, I can, may, someday, 'move on' to another R. My children will never 'move on' to having another dad. Their father is not dead. Can't act 'as if'... He lives two miles away. They have to sadly deal with knowing their dad choses something else.be the best mom I can be. yep, it is what I am doing, but will it ever take that pain and sadness away? How does one tell a 17 yr ols boy, well you better ask God?
I too have operated under the same MO. I hAve kept the door open for h. I can't seem to cut that tie.
Sometimes, I have to even remind myself, this man has been so disrespectful to me, to the children. why should I be pleasant to him? but, he comes over and pleasant I am.
Thanks guys for sharing. For allowing me to share.
I really wouldn't know what I would do without this board and all of you here. I want to send my heartfelt appreciation to you. ((( )))
KG I can see what you mean about elements of co dependency and control. I did get my expectations a wee bit up like job said. The baby steps were so different and positive that I was encouraged. Yet- I think my gut knew he was still 'not there'
I think I can look in the mirror and I know what I want. I want to stand. I feel stronger today though. Whatever this was has made me feel stronger to stand.
I can also look in the mirror and say that I want a partner.
I'm also very angry at H right now. In a way I have not felt before. He sent me a text yesterday and today about some credit card transaction I made online. He goes MIA from us all but 50 dollars makes him send a text..? Then he sent a third one today but it was so random I think it was a mistake. Either way I didn't respond- it would be too reactionary if I do. And I am glad I can recognise that now. I can see how I was always throwing down the gauntlet when I was angry in the past.
Right now I see him as selfish and arrogant. He just sent me another text saying he wants to talk to the kids. Then call them! I'm not stopping you. ( he didn't call). But I suppose it gives him the satisfaction to say to himself he wanted to speak to them but they didn't call.
He is so emotional so reactionary and so provocative. It's always about him. Always. His wants when he wants. Always when is convenient for him. He is always defensive. The kids wanted to speak to him in the past and I have sent texts and I get radio silence.
I have to stay in this country at least until the end of the school year .. What I have to decide is if I am staying one more year ( because of my work) or leaving at the end of this one. Needs to be for the right reasons. And I cant leave the school on short notice. So that's what I need to do for us now. I shifting my focus back on me and the kids.
I am angry and it's fuelling me. I know I need to gain some perspective and I will. I will let this anger work through me without reacting to it in fear.
Val thank you for your words of support. And KG I know there are still questions I have not answered and I will be coming back to answer them.
Job thank you for your wisdom into what is going on with H- it helps me so much. I will stay positive. And saying that you think I have been balancing things ok so far helps me too.
I'm actually GALIng tonight. A lecture on Sudanese archeology and then a dinner at a girlfriends house. Not too exciting but it's getting me out.
Thank you too willbewell for sharing and allowing me to share. I share your sentiments about the kids and their absence of choice in any of this.
We keep going. We Keep sharing. We keep growing.
Busting,
When in doubt, do nothing. Sit quietly and the answers will come when you least expect them.
Keep the focus on you and your children.
Originally Posted By: bustingout
I know part of my current struggle is also that I am lonely. Day in and day out over the years raising the kids, growing from this sitch , and no one to share my life with, to support my kids with, it's hitting me harder these days. I very been making an effort to see friends when I can to counter the feelings. But sometimes , you know, I just want someone to watch tv with. I feel that is so far away.
Busting, my dear, dear friend. I also feel lonely. We both have been at this for so long. I tell myself that this is part of the grieving process... So when these feelings invade me, I go back to asking myself the hard questions:
Is this loneliness affecting me to the point of wanting to change things?
I am getting closer to deciding closing the door - but is it time yet?
I have read that people don't change their circumstances until the rewards of change outweigh the pain of continuing with the status quo...
And that is the hard question for those standing - am I ready to change because my pain is just too much that I cannot continue with my current course of action?
Only you can answer that.
But it's important to keep asking ourselves, because that is what taking care of YOU means... To make sure that you are acting in a way that will make you happy.
Only you will know if standing is still worth it.
And in that self-reflection it's important to really, really ask ourselves what are we really standing for:
- For the return of the man our husband currently is, or the idealized version that we made in our minds.
- Is it even possible for that version we remember (or want) to ever come back after all this time and all that has happened?
- Did that version ever exist?
- Or are we standing for the notion of "the intact family" that we always dreamed of?
The more time passes, the more I question these things...
Because like you, at the end of the day I want (AND DESERVE) to be in a loving, healthy R with someone. I think I have learned enough from this life lesson to offer a much healthier version of me for my next R.
And I deserve someone to love me 100% and someone that will treat me like #1 and someone who shares my same goals in a R.
(And I am not sure anymore that my H will ever be able to offer me that anymore even if he ever came back...)
And so when you get down and sad and lonely, ask yourself - Is my current course of action, and all this pain worth it?
If the answer is still "yes"
then take a deep breathe,
dig deeper,
accept what is,
get your focus back on making the best of your CURRENT life
and make yourself happy.
If the answer is "not anymore"
then it's time to make a change.
Either way, TAKE CONTROL of your situation and make yourself (and your kids) happy with what your life is TODAY.
The above really spoke to me right now. Along with what Job wrote. This is exactly what I'm grappling with today. Not grappling, exactly, it's sorta the background music to my life right now.
I'm realizing that there was a time when I knew the answer to whether I would stand or not. When asked if I was done with the marriage, "I didn't hesitate. I knew the answer was "No."
Now, I feel the answer is a resounding YES and I'm only procrastinating because of the paperwork involved. That makes me sad. I'm just really done with this man's antics. I think about him and I think about the wasted time. Time I've lost forever.
It may seem harsh, but it's where I'm at today.
Thanks for the insightful postings.
I understand what you are saying heather. I am not yet where you are... Being done standing. However I can see that as an actual option where as before I did not.
I am really quite amazed right now at this wave of anger that I am experiencing. Thoughts/memories of pain I thought I had dealt with in the past are coming back to me. Did I not fully process things and move forward from them? These are things related to h... His selfishness, the OW, the feelings of me and the kids beig wronged by such an arrogant and selfish man. I feel no compassion. And I have felt compassion for him unceasingly as I progressed on this journey. Right now this moment: I don't feel it. Just anger.
Job I will sit quietly. Thank you for the reminder.
My love to you all
I'm glad you are feeling angry. I think it's healthy. Let it OUT!
Busting,
It's a completely healthy feeling to be angry. In my own journey, I have discovered that it is in my darkest and angriest of times, that I find the light needed to guide me into my next step of healing.
How you use your anger is key. I think anger can be used to set up healthy boundaries for you in the future. I also think it can exhaust you of negative feels opening up the door for forgiveness and the ability to let go. Anger teaches you about who you were... it can also teach you about who you want to be.
Of course there are many people who live in the anger.. because in part - in order to deal with the anger - you have to deal with all of it. Not just your spouse but YOU. Because in every interaction, there are TWO people. No one person can take the blame... it is something that must be shared. And that's why they get stuck, because they don't want to own their part. They only want to place blame.
And my dear that is NOT you. As you sit with these feelings, it will be revealed why you are so angry with your H. My guess is that it will lead to some anger that you will feel towards yourself.
Do not beat yourself up over having a lack of compassion. If now - all you can do is not rip his head off for being an a$$ - consider that a victory. In all honesty, it's more than most would do.
Just sit tight. It's not easy to stay in the land of anger, but I know good things will come out of it.
((( )))
Hit submit too quickly, just dropped by to say Hi, busting!
Thank you Val I have been thinking about this. Since I last posted my anger has dissipated - I did accept it and I think I worked through it. My anger was mostly at things I cannot control- H's decisions. Also that I was getting caught up in the emotional roller coaster again. I was angry. Angry because I am feeling anxious and sad. I'm lonely and tired of my sitch. I was going through moments of wanting to stop this. I realised I am wanting to move on from the sitch, but not h.
Ok- so back to basics. It's my choice. I am choosing this now ( this is what is meant by us having the final say perhaps?). Reality check- things have shifted. Whether it's my DB Ing or h slowly waking up or a combination or just an aligemt of the stars - there is something changing. But I got too hopeful too soon. And that made me angry too. I almost want to sabatage whatever is happening naturally, so I know where I stand again. That's a big issue I have to deal with now.
See- over the past few weeks h and I have chatted a bit- not about us per se but about the kids. Much more openly and on 'equal' ground than the past. Yes he is more receptive and forthcoming. We wen had two night time talks about the kids ( and he ended up telling me some stuff about him like doctors appointments he had), where as usually we have not spoken or even texted in the evening for years.
I'm really trying to just sit and observe. I've thrown out a couple of 'feelers' for lack of a better term. For example, he said he is coming in the next week. There is a big annual party that all of our friends are going to that he is no longer invited too. I said to him if he is around would he like to come with is all and he said yes ( he can come with me as my guest). But I made it as 'all of us' going (his old gang) which is the truth- we all go as a group - not 'couples'. I was surprised he said yes but pleased ( now we'll see if he actually arrives in time)
But just the nature of our interactions seem easier. Less 'wall' to try and talk through.
He has not in anyway opened up or initiated big talks or anything. That's fine. At the end of the day my foremost priority is me and kids on a day to day basis. And I have refocused on that. I am however also very aware that H is alone. No parents, no real friends and no family. He seems to be reconnecting with old friends.
Anyway- enough about H. I am doing much better after going through my anger. It was 'refreshing' to be able to accept it and understand that it is a feeling that will pass and know I have the skills to deal with it and understand it. Busy with work and exercise, kids and their activities. Have been having several movie nights with my girlfriends which has been fun and have been reading a lot. Last !
weekend both kids were out all day and I almost Didn't know what to do!
So I poured a drink and watched amovie. Was great!
Am doing well overall right now. I will take it and keep going with it.
Hi bug!! I have been saving your quotes as I read them on other threads. I love them. They make me think and keep me focused. Much love to you
My friend said to me today ' H can no longer hurt you' in response to something I said to her. And I thought to myself ' yes that is true' and I realised that yes, I have let go of fear. I have let go expectations. For now, today, I have realised this.
Good day today- lots of GAL with some friends of mine. A nice walk, coffee, work, then some evening time with 2 girlfriends.
Just dropping by to say hi
You sound good my sister!!
Hi Kate!! I hope you are well. Thanks for dropping by. Love you :-)
Busting, you sound good. I think you are right and something has shifted in your sitch. It seems that your H feels more comfortable around you. I think his willingness to go the party is huge! I was thinking about my last weekend and my H’s behavior, and I think I have this theory that they don’t realize that their behavior is strange. I think it is subconscious, they feel comfortable, they want to be around us for some reason they don’t understand, they don’t think that after treating us like strangers this behavior might looks unusual for us. They just do what they feel they want to do at the moment.
I see a lot of positive in your sitch. Keep on keeping on!
Thanks bright!!!
I am conflicted right now. H arrived on Thursday. He brought all of his stuff in the house except his suitcase. I was going out and when i left ( after the kids had asked him if he is staying here and he said maybe) I said to him, there is a house key by the door if needs it.
We ended up being at the same place at the end of the night ( mutual friend's house) and I left home before him. I got home I found he had left all of his stuff here , except his suitcase, and taken arouse key. Next morning he is not here..he came later but brought his suitcase in. He had crashed at our mutual friend's house because it was late and he was drunk.
Anyway, have a good day on Friday. He is really nice to me. Friday was the party he said he would like to go.
Comes close to the time to go and all of a sudden he says I should go with mutual friend's because he has a 'business transaction ' to do and then will catch up at party. Then he says it might not happen. Then he sys get ready and I wil drop you off at mutual friend's and then catch up at the party. He is very nice.
As we leave he takes EVERYTHING into his car. He is not staying here after all.in the car, I ask if had told the kids ( they had asked him to stay and thought he was), he said 'well I told them I will see them tomorrow' I said I want to ask you question, are you uncomfortable staying at the house. He said no. I said it means the world of difference to the kids that's why I am asking. He said i know. And he said, 'well you never know how the night will go'.
I didn't really reply. I didn't know what he meant. In my head I thought he is one confused dude. but was also a bit upset.
He drops me at mutual friend's...says see you soon.
Me and friends get to party, less than 30 minutes later, h shows. It seems he just went to wherever he is staying, unpacked and showered. There is not way he had time for any 'business'. So he it seems, told me all of this about having a business transaction before the party was an excuse to take his stuff to wherever he is staying.
I was nervous. A few people were shocked and were watching us. There was a part of me that was pleased because when h left me years ago, these very same people were very mean to me and stopped talking to me like I was the one who was acting shameful. Bt I have learned to not care about these people so shortly after I had that pleasant feeling, I realised how petty it was of me to feel that towards people that seemed to revel in my family's demise. And I let it go.
I didn't hang around h really. We have our mutual friends so we were in each others space so to say, and we chatted a bit but not much. I had a couple of people ask me about him. I said very little in response and was actually very calm and collected and myself ( drinking and dancing) throughout the night.
At one point h expressed to my BF ( her husband is H best friend and he has been recently reconnecting with him...this the house he crashed at because he was drunk the night before). H expressed how much he loved BF and her husband, what they meant to him etc. My BF told me this as she was pleasantly surprised.
Also during the evening, h came up to me and said I want to tell you something and then he took me by the arm and said I want you to meet some people and he introduced me to a group of his (new MLC) friend's, that I had never met before (seen but not met). He introduced me as his wife. I thought this was strange.
The party was great overall, and then we all left in H's car. He dropped people off then dropped me off and walked me in. Again, very nice. I had a bit to drink so I blah blahed a bit about 'come have another drink, blah blah' he said no, it's late and we will get together with mutual friends again in the middle of the week. Anyway, I went to bed ( with lots of water!) and while I had a great night overall I was bothered and still am that he is not staying here.
Ok, why am I bothered. I should not expect him to stay. I got my hopes up obviously with his last trip. But in reality, not much has actually changed except him being nicer. So I can't rush this. But when he brought his suitcase in yesterday I also got my hopes up. I suppose he was and is confused as well. And the first night when he left all of his stuff here but also took the house key. It made me think he is staying here as well. But I am tired of this. I almost want to say just make up your mind. You either stay here and we keep going or you get out and leave us alone for good.I suppose his whole points to not get my hopes up. I Understand he needs to still have his privacy and assert his independence.
And then I think that I need to sit back calmly and watch. And then I think but how is that fair to my kids????
He brought us so many treats when he came back...cheeses we cant get here, coffee, chocolates, even my favourite chocolate. He brought ingredients for a recipe he said he wants to make for us.
I just am not sure what to do if anything. Do I continue to watch? Do I say something again? Although I think I said enough when I told him in the car how much it means to the kids when he stays at the house. I just don't know how much longer I can do this. I see many positives, and then think about the reality such as him coming and going, not taking concrete action to come back, and I wonder how much longer i can do this, or should do this? I am so tempted to cut him out. Because I am fed up. That is so much the old me though. freezing people out. Very passive aggressive behaviour. I don't like it. It is not authentic behaviour and it does not make me feel good about myself. It is not fair to the other person - even h....! Lol
So I don't know. I know h will make is way over here later on this morning or early afternoon depending on when he gets up. I am very weary of this coming and going and the disappointment of the kids...and even myself.
Any thoughts?
Also I realise that it was hard for h to go to the party as well because after he left me, he really stopped being invited to a lot of places while I continued to be invited. This party was one of those places (it's an annual party). A lot of people had not seen him in years and a lot of people assumed we were divorced.
So I get that it's hard on h too and a huge step as well. And I get why he would be nervous about walking in with me perhaps. maybe even that's why he seems to have 'suddenly' not stay with us at the home. Was the party too much for him?
It's weird at another level. Being in DB and all I have learned, etc and the way h and I are with each other ( friendly, civil, almost going to a party together, etc) shocks a lot of people. I mean I saw genuine shock on people's faces. Yet it seemed so normal to me to have this relationship with him. It felt comfortable and I suppose society's norm is for us to hate each other and not talk etc. I am so glad I found this place, because I would have been living with a lot of anger if I hadn't.
This is what i am thinking (only thinking) about telling him...if talking to him is a good idea in the first place and if what i am thinking is any good as well: ( if you think it's a good idea to talk to h I don't want to come across as preachy or confrontational etc etc)
"That this situation no longer works for me and the kids. You come and visit about every 5 to 6 weeks and stay a week. Not staying at the house and just coming and going as you please no longer works for us. I appreciate the positive environment we have created between one another as well as the steps you have been making towards reconnecting with the kids and the family. I admire the strength in you doing that.
This no longer works because if we are to be a family, this family needs to heal. And that is not possible anymore with this current arrangement. It does not suit the reality. The kids need you to commit to them. They should no longer have to accommodate their feelings for you.
Me and the kids have healed in several ways already. But that healing has been without you. My own healing has been without you. I have no intentions of living as a single woman and a single parent. That does not work for me either.
I realise you need time. I realise you are on a journey yourself. We are both relearning and readjusting to life.
This is not a threat or an ultimatum. I propose that when you are in town you stay at the house. Other stuff will be figured out in its own time. However, for the sake of the kids, not being home is not an option anymore.
Also that you visit more often or we meet you more often. You only have snapshots of the kids' lives. It's time for them to have their father as a real person in their lives. The alternative? I suppose the alternative is for me and the kids to continue moving forward with our lives without you. Not much different than now.
You may be able to do these things now, later or never. But we are here now. We may not be here later. And we will never be ok with this continuing situation. "
busting, I am interested to hear what the vets will say to you. I feel the exact same. h and I do the exact same. we go to the events like there is no big deal between us ( sorry but D is a big deal to me.so much so that I avoid it). I don't really care about what others think. I do care that I am keeping myself stuck...
h now talks of us in the past tense. he will say, we "did have a good life".
the kids get the new normal. no, it is not fair. is he staying? is he going? he does only get snapshots.
I think that is all my h gets/wants. I couldn't imagine it! but, for my h, family and what it comes along with it, is just not important to him. it is important to me,it is not to him. I have to constantly remind myself of this.
we do these normal things...like going to parties, school events etc...yet our lives are so not the normal that we want them to be. I know I still settle for those crumbs.
Busting, your H appears confused. I think that he is trying to reconnect, but doesn’t feel quite comfortable. There are few sign that could be taken as positives. H wanted to introduce you to his MLC friends and he introduced you as his wife. This is big! Then he brought the ingredients for a recipe he wants to make. This shows interests and willingness to do nice things. Somewhere in one of my relationship books I read that when men want to cook for you, it means they are interested, and vice versa. I remember when my H stopped wanting to cook for me. I think this was the time when his MLC started, he was detaching from me.
Your H is testing the waters. He is not sure what to do and how to do it. This is why he changes his decisions all the time. He still needs his space to process everything.
This is from Job’s post in thread “TMAK – Explanation of Reconnection”:
True reconnection will not begin to take place until the near the end of withdrawal--going into acceptance. The spouse in crisis will begin to disassociate himself/herself w/the replay antics, i.e., new friends, drinking, etc. They will begin to dress and act like the people you once knew. They will begin to smile a bit and look you in the eyes as well. This will not occur all at once--it's very gradual. He/she will begin to gradually take an interest in their surroundings. They will start to make real contact w/co-workers, old friends (prior to mlc) and begin to take up the hobbies that they once loved. The contact w/their respective parents and family will be noticeable first. Contact w/them will become more frequent and slowly they will begin to take more interest in their children. Their interest in the pets will begin again. As they start to move deeper into the reconnection, they will then begin to take notice of their former homes and you, the spouse will be the last. I have never understood it, but we are the first in the disconnection an the last for reconnection. The mlcer may find excuses to come to your home or meet w/you to discuss trivial issues. Generally they come around to see where your head and heart are at regarding them. They may even sit down w/you and toss out feelers about some of the things that they have done just to test your reactions. They may even ask you if you have someone new your life. Whatever they ask you, please be honest w/them, but in a very calm way. This is the most frustrating step in the crisis. This is where many of us will and have screwed up. At this step, you are the one that will either make the marriage or toss it aside. This is the time where your mlcer will be testing you to the max to see if you are going to accept him/her for who they are and for what they've done. Also, while this reconnecting is going on, many of us will begin to feel anxious and the need to begin applying pressure towards them, i.e, in making a decision as to returing home. You must find it in your heart and dig very deep to keep your expectations at zero no matter what. They must not sense that you are anxious for them to make a decision. If they sense being pressured, they will run hard and fast right back into the mlc tunnel and it will even take longer for them to feel safe to try again. You must keep your body language in calm and continue to treat them as a friend. This stage can usually last up to a year or longer, depending upon the individual. It goes hand in hand w/acceptance. Once they gradually re-enter reality, and into your life, return home and take up living again, it will take another 6-9 months (approximately) for them to actually feel safe in their skins. There will be many times when something breaks or doesn't go right, and they will feel guilty and suggest that they move back out. If you love this person and want them back by your side, do not encourage them to leave again. You will need to reassure them, just as you would a hurt child. I know, it's insane, but this is what you must do.
I don’t know what to tell you, Busting. If you feel that the situation is no longer working for you, maybe you should have that conversation. You came this far, and it is up to you whether to give your H more time or push him to make a decision. It sounds that you are quite ready to push for out for good though. Do you think you should give it a little bit more time and see how you feel?
I’m thinking of you and I hope you will get your answers soon. I see a lot of positives in your situation, and I have lots of hope for you.
Busting,
My advice, fwiw (which is presumably nothing - look where i still am!)
is to do what is best for you and the kids.
Don't think twice about what his recent behaviour might mean...or if he is making steps to reconnecting.
My experience is that NOTHING we do or say can make them more likely to be ready to reconcile.
They are going through this process and will come out (if they ever do) on their own time scale.
Leaving them WAY ALONE seems to be the best option; not initiating discussion of anything and being civil when they want to talk/interact.
If they want to reconnect, we will know. It will be clear.
If they don't, no amount of second-guessing how to 'be' around them will influence them.
Also, I wouldn't engage in lengthy explanations of your decisions either.
I've said similar things to my XH from time to time only to have them all thrown back in my face - e.g. "you ARE threatening me", "you don't realise anything", "I am not 'on a journey'", "I AM totally committed to my children", etc, etc. It all gets turned into grist for his anger mill.
But, on the bright side... your h may not be like mine in this. Just offering up the benefit (!) of my experiences in this regard.
Hi Busting. How are things going?
Hi, dear friend.
Just checking in on you.
(I know you are out there reading...)
Don't be a stranger, ok?
(((((busting))))
Just re-read NLW’s post again to remind myself that I need to continue to leave my H WAY ALONE and stop thinking about how I need to behave.
Busting, I hope all is well with you.
Checking in Sister...whatcha thinking?
Hi everybody! Thank you for all of your loving posts! I have been here daily reading along. I haven't had much to post regarding my own sitch. The remaining time that h was here was really good. We had a lot of fun actually. He spent a few nights in the guest room, much to the delight of the kids.
I did end up talking to h about staying at the house and about coming more often and he was agreeable. I am not going to bring it up again. I have said it and will let it go. Whatever h decides at the end of the day needs to come from him and I am sure he is doing a lot of thinking. He seems gloomy at times. I keep my communication with him very upbeat and friendly whether it's about the kids - and more recently we have been talking more about other stuff too.. He told me about some problems at work, etc.
Our communication is definitely improving. I am working hard to be very mindful and empathetic .. Sometimes I have to put my feelings ya on hold. Most of the time actually. However there is a slow subtle thawing.. I have taken a few conscious 'risks' and extended a few more invitations to him for when he comes back next time. They were met postively. I think he is trying in his own way as well. He tells me more things about who he is with or why he doesn't respond right aWay sometimes to texts ( without me asking or promoting).
I'm not saying it means we are moving towards each other and while I keep my expectations very low I am still learning to not be a slave to my emotions. I am still learning and growing.
I have let go of of much fear and hurt. It's been the hardest 4 years of my life and I finally feel like I am where I need to be. I am so grateful for this journey for what it has done for me and in turn my parenting, my relationships and my perspectives on life. I don't know what will happen with h- and I am sure there will be more hardships in the future, but I feel prepared to deal without fear. I am much more interested in today than tomorrow.
I love you all
busting,
Take things slowly and continue to do what is working for you. Listening, not offering advice and being upbeat appear to be the keys in getting your h to open up a bit more each time. Sounds like he is thawing out a bit and I'm very happy for that.
I am very happy that he stayed over even if he slept in the guest room. This is a huge step for him.
How are you and the children doing these days? What's on your agenda for the weekend?
Keep up the good work!
Hi Job. Thank you for your post. The kids are doing really well, thank God. We were in my country last week seeing my parents and my family all commented on how much better my son seems to be dong compared to last summer. I was pleased to hear that. I suppose it's a combination of time, and maybe a little bit of me helping him cope and maybe a little bit of h's steps towards the family.
My son is at a friends house for the night and my daughter has a friend over. I have brought them to play at a playground and I hope to squeeze a walk in myself. I have book club tomorrow which I look forward too.
How are you Job? :-)
It is a big step for him. I made a small 'mistake' the first time he slept at the house saying that was nice. He changed the subject immediately and became uncomfortable --- so yeah.. I quickly realized that no comment is necessary.. Lol
But I did tell him about the comments my family made about son doing better and I said that is partly do to him (h) as well and it's a good thing. I wanted to praise him subtlety. I didn't get a comment back but it was not awkward or uncomfortable.
I will do my best to continue on my path. Thank you Job again for your insight and support
good to hear your update!
Busting, you are doing great. Just remember that reconnection (if this is what it is) is a very delicate process. I know it is hard and you want to tell him to just snap out of his MLC already. You’ve been in this for a long time now, and I understand how tiring it is. I get impatient every time I think there is a movement towards the better, and then, when there is a setback, I’m ready to quit. It is happening to me again (if you read my updates.)
I really do have a lot of hope for you. Just keep it slow and don’t let yourself to raise big expectations.
Thank you bright and WBW. I truly don't know what this is. I remember more often now though things that were said to me when I first came here. About patience, slow is fast, a marathon, time being a gift, GALIng ... Etc. It all makes so much more sense now. Even trying to figure out what and where h is on his journey. In hindsight I can see things clearer. But where he is now..? I don't know. So I will try and continue doing my best at understanding and learning and implementing what I need to do for myself and my kids while working on letting go of fear so I can focus on where I am right now.
Busting, I’m here with you, trying to figure out where H is in terms of MLC. I have doubts once again that he is in MLC at all. He doesn’t seem to fit the pattern. I keep reading and re-reading the stages of MLC from Hears Blessing and Job’s postings, and I can’t determine where he is.
I think it can only be figured out in hindsight.. When you can lay the pattern on action that has already happened.
Busting, stopping by to say hello. I see that you remain strong and learning as you travel this rough path.
I would add that we often want to find a "diagnosis" like MLC, but what matters is that we learn to see our own sitch for its uniqueness and focus on how WE can become better people as a result of what we went/are going through. Love to you.
Thanks tori! I have missed you!
So h arrived tonight. It's been over a month since the last visit. During the past month we have communicated very nicely with each other. There is no big initiation from him. I wonder about that. He is kind and does reciprocate and even engage in some conversations. He offers information without me prompting and so on.
So he arrived tonight and we were all so happy. I was wondering if he was going to stay here on this trip and it seems he is unsure. He stayed for awhile and then left saying he might come back.
I am not - as much as I can with my knowledge understanding - pressuring. I encourage him to feel comfortable. My actions and words are authentic. I am and have let him go in love. I am living my life without him and without the expectation of him wanting so come back to us. My life has not stopped and I am being the support to my kids with the best I can - I am continuously - daily- hourly - trying to be the best support and mother I can to them. With love. It's all out of love.
I am happy - and. When I feel fear I work through it. I want h to come back and I know ill be still me if he doesn't. It's not a desperate feeling. It's a miss. I miss him. I miss my friend. I don't think he misses me and I am still learning to be ok with that. That's still hard on me.
There have been two conversations we had that have stood out for me. One was a phone call while he was away and he said to me ' I bet you want to push me out of a plane' and. I said no. I don't.
The other was tonight and he told me he did feel some resentment towards me because I was not involved enough in our finances. I told him that I thought he didn't want me involved.
I realise there is so much non and miscommunication between us. However - we need opportunities/time to speak together. I hope that we can create this time someday. For more understanding.
And regardless- I am still going to move forward with my kids' lives and mine. Although I want to mind read my H's head - I will refrain because really- what do I know? I know what I see right now. He arrived- he spent time with me and the kids and left to a party. He said he might come back and might not. That's all I know about H tonight.
What I know about me? I am good. Have plans tomorrow and tomorrow night with my girlfriends. Have some work to do. A book I am reading, a project at work I am finishing off. Life. It's happening and I won't let me and the kids miss out on it. I am happy with what I have built and continue to build. That's all.
My kids want their daddy back so much. And their happiness is my guide. Whether he comes back or not- being the best I can for them is my motivation.
Mind reading!!
I just wanted to let this out-
It's like we had had this big push forward over the past 5 months in terms if communication and his friendship with his pre MLC friends and the kids. But with me it's like it's come to a standstill - something shifted and became positive but nothing to hold on to . He is not ready I get that - I feel like I am in a weird place though- he doesn't shut me down like before- he contemplates staying here- we have a decent realationship and do well with the kids. I try and just keep going regardless of wanting more and regardless of him in general- i
I think it makes me feel like our friendship never met as much to him. I thought - felt - we were close - that we had a Frienship that was the basis for everything else. When he doesn't seem to value that- it makes me wonder.
I think I realise is that it doesn't matter what I want in my sitch - becUse I can't control that. What matters is how I respond to what is presented to me and remember my decision to live with happiness or not.
Busting,
I have moments where I really embrace how different my H is today. He may look somewhat the same, he may even sound the same sometimes...but, the reality is that he is very different and I don't really know him anymore. I feel sad when I get honest about how far away he has allowed himself to drift. But, it's also a decent reality check to see that I don't understand where his head is at, any way shape or form. He is truly an alien. I don't get it and I'm may never get it. He isn't reacting to this abnormal situation like a normal person. In fact, he created the abnormal situation in the first place. I have to stop expecting him to act like a normal human being. He just isn't right in the head right now. No one in their right mind would pull the crap he has.
Busting, good to hear from you. Remember Job’s post on reconnection? The reconnection with the spouse happens last.
I looks like your H is thinking hard about reconnection with you. But he is afraid that you will not accept him if he would come back. At the same time, he is still trying to find a reason to be resentful to you. It is like he is trying hard to convince himself that he made the right choice leaving you. I suspect it is not working for him anymore, but he is still far from accepting it. He is still testing the waters.
You are doing great. Leave it up him to deal with the kids. You cannot persuade him to be a better father, he has to do the work. Treat him like a “long lost relative” – I think these are Job’s words. See, I’ve leant something, LOL. If I could only apply it to my own sitch…
Thanks heather. They really are like aliens!
Bright- you are right.. I know you are. I am becoming very impatient. This is my current problem. I'd rather he not come visit at all unless he was coming back to us.
Busting
I just read your thread and you have done an awesome job. You can see that you have gotten stronger with each post. Hang in there, it looks like h is coming around slowly. Keep living life for yourself and your kids.
Busting, thank you for your post the other day! Go back to the alt so I can tell you about the book. Meanwhile, know that I'm sending you love and hope.
"" I am and have let him go in love. I am living my life without him and without the expectation of him wanting so come back to us. My life has not stopped and I am being the support to my kids with the best I can - I am continuously - daily- hourly - trying to be the best support and mother I can to them. With love. It's all out of love. ""
Sounds like you are doing great. Not perfect all the time but great.
Isnt it amazing how blessed we are. Isn't it wonderful to live knowing how blessed we are
Thank you scoobi, tori and BM,
I appreciate you all coming by and your words of support. I realise I need to continue being me, focus on my life and the kids. I see how impatience could break all I have built for myself and the kids over the years and go against the very reason I have continued to stand.
It's very very very nice with H around. I cannot deny that. He makes more effort as well. So much more engaged.
I also can't deny that I miss him. However I have my life to tend to. So today I got my hair done -,knowing h was with the kids. I am going out with the girls tonight and h is at a bday party with the kids right now. Before they left we all were together chatting, laughing. Touch wood. Thank God. No matter what I am blessed.
So we will see what happens.
Busting, you are doing great! I know the feelings when you say that you would rather not have him come to visit if he is not coming back for good. I think this all the time. It gets better for me when H is away and there is no contact. Then he shows up and all the feelings are stirred up again. I can always tell him not to come anymore. It is easier in my case, because we don’t have little kids. I think my son has some contact with H, but he doesn’t tell me. I don’t know if it is for the better or not.
Keep doing what you are doing. I’m glad you are having these moments of happiness with H around. I have so much hope that something even better will develop from this.
Thank you Bright for your post :-) I have hope too coupled with very little expectations...
Well since my last post a lot has happened. My sister called saying my mom was in the hospital diagnosed with early stages of lung cancer. I left the next day to come stay with her for awhile. The doctors seem positive that it has been caught early and she has already started chemo. God willing she beats it. She is in good spirits overall.
So I will stay here probably for another week for now. Haven really planned it. Left work and we still have 6 weeks left before we break for summer.
H has been supportive - told me to stay as long as I want. I don't know how or why but we had some intense conversation in the past 36 hours. Started off bad bad bad-- bad timing- bad approach- bad attitude. I was exhausted, stressed with news of mum, mad at him for everything. Being a selfish pr1ck etc. so while in the greater scheme of things it wasn't a complete blow up of a convo - I said to him I want him to leave and not come back and he said no and I said he is sitting on the fence he won't come and he won't go. He ended up saying he is not interested in me ( ouch) and I called him on it - why come around why ask about me ? Etc. anyway - we finally agreed this was not a productive convo and agreed to speak the next day.
The next day convo was much more productive. I learned that he knows he handled things very badly. That he felt at the time he reached his breaking point. That he knows he did not do everything possible to help our M. He also has heard me. He knows that I have changed a lot. He says I speak well and eloquently. I thanked him. He said he knows he has to do a lot more for the kids and to be more present in their lives. We talked briefly about possibly moving in together as a unit in a year or so. The idea of husband and wife still not really an option I guess ( I didn't bring that up. We were talking about th kids and he brought up the husband and wife part... He mumbled it- I couldn't even paraphrase it - it was kind of confusing).
He told me that it bugs him when I try and find solutions (' you Always do that busting'). I found that very useful information.
I know OW is not completely out yet she is not as important as she once was. He told me he is here for me emotionally and mentally and even when he is being a jerk making selfish decisions he is here for me emotionally and mentally.
I also told him that I appreciated him telling me all of this. I told him I understood. I said I could see from my point of view a lot of confusion - that I can tell he shows his disinterest in me by making sure he doesn't initiate conversation or ask about my life - but then he does whn he comes to visit but will also make a point of being busy every single night with his friends while visiting so no chance to visit with me after the kids sleep. But then he says things like ' we'll get together with so and so and BBQ' .
Anyway- it's confusing. And I feel disheartened at times and ok at times.
Is ironic. He is planning the weeknd with my friends and I am not there. Something I have wanted for so long- a normal weekend with friends, H etc. but even if I were there now it probably wouldn't be normal because h would avoid us because of me.
We had a conversation about the summer- I have a work training course and. I was going to leave the kids with my mom- not possible now- so I told him I need him to be with them while at my moms and he said 'yeah maybe I will take them to Germany' and I said no. What crap are you saying? What point are you trying to make? The kids need to visit with their grandma. Yes or no are you going to be there? He finally said yes of course. I said why are you so complicated why is it so difficult for you to have a normal conversation? Ugh I was mad. It doesn't make any sense! I am going on my trip early June and we are all going to Germany in July to visit his family. Why the hell would he say he will take the kids from my mom in early June to Germany while I am away? Just to be difficult ??
Anyway- it's resolved. I am just tired of it all.
Much love to you
Just checking in. Still here with mom. I go back home on Thursday and will return here In a couple of weeks.
It's been a process of adjusting to a new norm for my mom- it's been challenging and I think she is doing ok mentally (it's half the battle, no?)
I have decided to re- establish my boundary with H ( when I get back) about his comings and goings in the house. His R in whatever form with the Ow persists and I am not dealing with it.
It was getting better. I don't know what happened over the past month. Did he get scared?
We have been having somewhat productive conversations over the phone while I have been away ... Some of it released anger on both sides - which I found healthy in a certain way- and some informative ( I told him I love him and support him but will not enable him while he makes these choices- hence no more 'family man, man of the house' while he is in contact with OW). We also spoke a little about addiction and affair love. He is also still talking about big changes in 2014/2015. It's all very confusing and has left me tired and over analysing.
A part of me wants to stay away from him and not go back ( and have my kids teleported to me here!) ... And just not go back to 'that' life in that house in that country. I have created wonderful friends and. Wonderful support networks. I just feel done being there and living that life.
Right now I know what I need to do. Am just tired of it all really. I don't know what happened to H again. I was very conscious of not pressuring him. I am so tired.
I'm sorry you're so tired Busting. Me too. Take good care of yourself.
What do you mean you know what you have to do?
Just a note to say thinking about you and your Mom, Picnic sister :))
Let H take his own steps. I get impatient too....
Hi Heather and Kate. Thank you for your posts. Thanks Kate for the words of support for my mum.
Heather I meant I need to re- establish boundaries. I need to lay it on the table. He can't play house with me and my kids with Ow in the picture.
I am so tired of this all. Sigh.
Busting, I wish your Mom a full recovery. The attitude is a big deal, and it is great that she is in good spirit.
As for your H, I know how frustrating it is when you see some positive steps and then there a few steps back... The OW addiction is hard to break. Let him deal with it. It is very important to keep giving him space and not pressuring him now. I think you are right to enforce the boundary though. Take a deep breath and continue to be the wonderful you – for you.
Thanks bright. My mood is ok here with my mom- but I have realized I am really quite - so much in my head. I think I have gotten so used to being alone that the most talking I do is at work or if I am with my friends. I don't talk at home usually. Anyway-
I know OW is addiction and it's hard- I think I am feeling a little vulnerable though - fed up. I don't want to go back and re establish these boundaries again and do this whole thing over again. I jus want to go home to my family and get on with it.
Anyway- keep going as they say
Busting.. darlin breathe.
You have alot going on emotionally. Are you sure you aren't wanting to establish boundaries to try and get some control?
Take space. Take time. But perhaps wait until the waters calm until you set the new boundaries.
My gut says you are reacting right now. Wait... until you can act.
((( )))
Yes I am trying to gain some control. You are right Val. You are right.
I need to breathe and let things settle.
Val you are like a guardian angel to me. Thank you for that. I will slow myself down.
(((( ))))
I just landed back home. Lots of thighs from a. Dry confusing week of conversations with H. Maybe he really can't stand to be around me --- he can't see his happiness with me. I don't bring him joy or comfort or feelings of love.
He confused me so much this past week. I asked when you think of me- do you feel negative thoughts...he said I don't think of you much
Ok...
I annoy him.
Maybe we will all be together as a unit inn2015. Not sure about husband and wife-anything is possible (does he think I am just going to live like this ?? Like I'll continue bring a mother only while we live together..? And what he would continue having his affair..?)
Then that he will try and be nicer to me.
That maybe we can start to take small steps towards each other.
I asked:
Can you look at me as someone you don't know? I feel very judged by you and I don't understand why.
Maybe.
We need to take small steps towards each other if this is really something on the table.
Slow.
So.... For some reason I feel ok. We did do a lot of talking. Maybe it was healthy - maybe he is letting out some of the negativity he has held in for so long.
However-
I am More and more bothered by the affair. I wasn't this bothered before
I know a trigger for me is travel. Whenever I get on an airplane I think of the affair because I imagine them travelling together.
So- I think I have managed to slow my brain down. I know it's been a hard week emotionally and I need to settle my thoughts, fears etc that became all puddled and scared.
Lots of thoughts from a very confusing..! Not thighs... Not lots of thighs! Lol
I got home and H was nice enough. Less than a good friend or family member.
He just doesn't seem to miss me or ... Anything. All those positives that happened over the past months- they don't seem to have anything really to do with me.
Anyway- I am confused. It looks like he is staying here tonight ( he went out but left his stuff here) and he leaves on Saturday. Maybe he will stay at the house until then maybe he won't. I almost don't care anymore. I thought it was a big step when he did that the last time he was here but now it seems like nothing. Because he is making sure that it has nothing to do with me. Or the stability for the kids.
I am starting to feel like I am standing in vain now. I don't want to feel like that. I have lost some of my strength . I need to get it back.
Just remembering bits from some of our recent conversations and my initial thoughts are he is confused and scared. He needs time. Just let things be. And live your life busting.
Then I start over thinking and my thoughts are more dreary - like I am a fool. I am being used. I am not valued.
And then I think it's probably all of the above. Right now- he does not value me and he may never again (outside the context of being the mother of his children).
It makes me feel less of a woman in a way...it's hard to explain. Like I am floating on my own. Ugh...am I having a pity party or what. Gotta get my groove back. What happened?
Bustingout, you are not a fool. Value yourself first. He values you more than he shows IMO or y'all wouldn't have been married so long. I guess what I'm saying is I was him in a way. My WAW tried and tried and survived many teary nights. I never once thought her value dropped I just refused to show or acknowledge it. Granted my issues are/were odd and do I regret it now. You bet! That doesn't change the who you are, what you want, and what your path is.
I'm overstating and do not usually try to help, but today was a day that I remembered all the good times, just like I'm sure you remember. Yesterday was a bad day for me. I survived, you will survive, but no matter what, tomorrow is a wonderful new day to enjoy.
Thank you why try for your post :-) I am familiar with your sitch and understand you were that WAS for awhile. Your insight is appreciated. Yes, tomorrow is a new and wonderful day. I guess I lost some of my 'in the now' appreciation of the day I am in now. I keep wandering towRds the future and the what ifs.
I think I need to quiet my mind and focus. Because I keep having thoughts of 'what if I never have someone to raise my kids with? What if I never have anyone to share my life with?' Then I think ' you have been doing it for 4 years and you have been great- so whatever is meant to be will be'
Just can't seem to find my balance these days. I don't need h- I want h. When do my wants matter?
Sorry hit submit ...
when do my wants matter ? Well I know with my choice to stand I am putting those wants on the back burner temporarily. I guess I am tired and confused.
Busting, I have the same what ifs and yes I want my W. Yes I can easily make it on my own, but like I mentioned, today was filled with all the awesome memories we shared, her smiling and laughing, us being goofy and giddy, and I want HER to share my life with. I try to encourage if I can cuz I know the other side oh so well, but still learning so much from you and others. Y'all are insightful and caring. Thank you.
Just remembering bits from some of our recent conversations and my initial thoughts are he is confused and scared. He needs time. Just let things be. And live your life busting.
Then I start over thinking and my thoughts are more dreary - like I am a fool. I am being used. I am not valued.
And then I think it's probably all of the above. Right now- he does not value me and he may never again (outside the context of being the mother of his children).
It makes me feel less of a woman in a way...it's hard to explain. Like I am floating on my own. Ugh...am I having a pity party or what. Gotta get my groove back. What happened?
Does it seem odd that you would have days like this? I totally get what you're feeling and saying. It makes perfect sense to me.
To me, it's part of the stress and strain of standing. Looking back, I do not for one second regret the turmoil and tribulations associated with standing. Not one bit.
Part of my needs were to keep standing. My needs were to try. I realized how confused and conflicted she was (is). She had few secrets, although she thought she did. That didn't make it easier, except for dealing with what was revealed.
It's tiring.
Do your needs count? Absolutely.
For me, it helped to give myself permission to have and pursue those wants and needs in the confines of the goal of standing. i.e. I refused to date, have an affair, etc. But I also didn't put my life on hold any longer than I felt necessary while I continued to stand.
Hang in there. You know he's confused and dazed. That's not in question, right?
AJ
Thank you why try- your encouragement means a lot to me. And your insight from the other side helps too. I think being authentic in your dealings with W is key... As well as time. Being the LBS can be very draining and I can only imagine that after standing and then deciding to step down from the stand- W may be completely emotionally drained.
AJM thank you for coming by :-) I too feel like I need to stand. I also decided not to date or have an affair while standing.
And no the question is not if he is dazed and confused. :-) maybe the question I am getting at is if I am dazed and confused. I have not once - until now- felt this pronounced absence in my life. The loneliness - and the stark reality of being so alone. I am tired and I guess I need to figure out how much longer I wil stand. I want to stand. I need to renewed strength maybe.
As for feeling valued. I Feel valued by my friends, work, my kids... Not by someone though that has an interest in me out the context of socialisig, colleague and mother. Just as busting.
And maybe that's what hitting me now. Because I am incredibly fulfilled and grateful by and for my kids, work and friends. I know I am blessed in that regard and I am thankful for it.
Am I being impatient for wanting more? Am I being unfair to his journey and time and space he needs? He is dazed and confused...
How do we know when we can't do it anymore?
I really like AJMs comment-"you know he's dazed and confused". And that your needs count. Granted it's awkward that I feel compelled to speak up but my W found how to be happy without me. I can't speak for all her needs being me but she enjoyed our children, her job teaching, and her running. I'm just now learning to go back to my fun hobbies. It does cause friction, but I think if we are both happy our children will be happier.
Back to the confused comment, I was and sometimes still feel bad, but I've since learned that my issue has some family ties. Not sure if your H does? My anger issues are like my fathers that drove my mom to divorce him. My cousin that is separated from his wife because of it. My uncle that went through also but t hey stayed together. Longer than I intended, but my family is 1 for 2 with me at bat so we'll see.
We have been at it a long time. It is so hard to be patient. To wait. yes, I am doing for me as I know you are doing for yourself.
There is though that draining, dragging feeling of something missing. I know I am keeping that attached by standing. will it automatically go away when we d?
I don't have time right now in my life to date or an affair as much as I think... wouldn't it be nice...I miss physical comfort. I miss someone thinking about me.
it is so tough. Day by day we carry on. I too think my h is sad and confused. I know what a great thing it is that he has given up.
I sadly think my h does not think about me.
he stays very involved with his job and now he admits to dating. the a I suppose is over.
while hasn't your h filed?
I am waiting on the settlement proposal from my h. I have said nothing to him.
In February h went to my country and saw my mom. He told her he was not thinking of D anymore. He never told me that.
If I were to guess I would say It seems he had realized that he does not want that for the kids either. And I suppose that with all the conversations we have had over the past week, he never brought up the subject when he easily could of. I am just realizing how grateful I am for that....
I have been thinking today and I am just going to step back from our sitch for the time being. We spoke A LOT. I need to think of Job right now ... Sit quietly And the answers will come and move forward with myself and the kids.
I plan on wrapping up my teaching work a few weeks before the school year ends so I can go back to my mom. H will stay with the kids. So I am grateful for that .
Hi all- it's been awhile - wanted to post:
I am ok. I feel really good overall. H has been really weird lately for lack of a better word. We had several text / phone call conversations a few weeks back. In general he has been much nicer. We talks about a possibility of living together again as a family but he is obviously still not ' there'. There have been some positives and some 'whatever' moments too. I am off his roller coaster but it seems just when I feel ready to move forward without him something small happens. Not in words (never words of endearment or claims of missing me or the family- he only says he misses the kids). He has acknowledged that he needs to be a better father more involved with the kids. When he left last time he spoke To me and the kids about needing time and hopefully things will be positive for us all.
But then I look at his actions. He doesn't initiate communication with me. Doesn't really seem interested. When he is around - sometimes he seems interested sometimes not. Sometimes he stays at the house, sometimes he does not ( guest room).
I told him to just leave and go live the life he wants. Me and the kids need to finish healing and move forward alone. I told him he is sitting on the fence and I can help him but I don't want to continue like this. I am resigning from work next year and I told him I think me and the kids will leave Sudan. He wants to stay in the Emirates (mostly for work), and would want us to go there but I said I wouldn't go there unless we were back together as a couple and a family. Why should I?
I said if there is a chance for us to live together again then we need to start building trust. Leave the past behind. Start fresh. Etc etc. He didn't disagree but again- actions speak louder than words. Then he has moments when he shows he cares. I look at these as big steps for him and try to keep it in perspective of how we were the past three years.
I feel so beyond this now. I still struggle but just feel beyond it all. I want to move forward with or without him. I have compassion and empathy for him. I want to dig deep. I understand.
The question- what to do now? He arrives tomorrow. Don't know if he is staying here. Didn't ask. At the same time, we are invited to a dinner at the golf club on Thursday and the invite was sent to him ( for us both) and he rsvp 'd in the affirmative. I don't even know if he will come though or if he does go with me or will 'catch up later'. I don't care really- I'm going either way. When the invite first came I asked him if he wanted to go ( because I intended to go ) so we could RSVP accordingly and he said ' I'll see about that ' very hesitantly, then he responded to the email in the affirmative.
We have some nice texting some days and some days he is silent. He told me last week he was in a bad mood- I tried to cheer him up - it seemed like it helped.
It's just a lot of uncertainty. A year ago- I knew he wasn't around. Now- it's like we are back at the start- is he coming or going? Except now I am different- and I know I am ok either way. I am tired. And I am ready to have a partner in life again.
At this stage- I am not even sure what to say. I haven't posted on the boards bcause I am not sure what to say. It's been four years. Sometimes I don't know if I am pushing him too hard or showing him light and a different perspective. I don't know if I am building trust or building a wall. I don't know if I am helping or harming. I don't know if he even cares
Oh and another strange thing is he has brought up hints of acknowledgement? Guilt? I mention something to him - completely unrelated to us or the R and he will come back with a weird comment. Example: I got him and his brother flying lessons for Xmas. I asked when they plan on using the lessons and he said in the summer. I said 'great ! I hope you can make time or else I'll push you on the plane myself! I know how much you want to do this' and he says in response 'are you sure you don't want to push me off the plane?'
Another time I said 'omg I had the weirdest dream last night and you were in it' and he said ' I hope I wasn't sleeping with the fishes At the end of it'
He must think I hate him...? Maybe he really can't believe who I am today? The changes? The very real forgiveness I have given him ( for myself to move forward)? I have let go of it?
H arrived last night. It was very pleasant. We watched a movie together and chatted. I went to sleep before him and he ended up staying in the guest room. I will take it day by day and see how it goes. The less expectations I have the better for me I realize. I have never felt so ready to move forward than I do now. This journey has saved me from myself.
I leave next Monday back to Egypt to help out with my mom. H will stay with the kids until they finish school and then bring them to Egypt.
Have to go for now- will come back later
It's just a lot of uncertainty. A year ago- I knew he wasn't around. Now- it's like we are back at the start- is he coming or going? Except now I am different- and I know I am ok either way. I am tired. And I am ready to have a partner in life again.
You've been at this awhile Busting and it's exhausting. Sorta sounds like he is coming full circle, slowly.
Hang in friend. I don't have much to offer. I just thought the above quote seemed to sum up all you were trying to say. You've been at this longer than I have. I admire your strength, grace and growth.
I know how you feel - not knowing if you are helping or hurting. The barrier they put up to make simple communication so strained. Easy questions like "Are you going to golf dinner?" become maddening.
Hang in there. Focus on yourself and your kids as you have been
Thank you heather and Bk. Your support really helps and helps keep me from spinning. So as I said I will take it day by day. We are going to the golf dinner. We should leave soon. I know he is nervous. His BFF ( husband of my BFF) is going to come to the dinner but later so he doesn't have his buddy to walk in with. He also said on the phone to someone that he might meet them later ( and didn't say he was going to the dinner) so I guess he needs to feel he has a way out. That's ok. Let's see how it all goes!
Update / journal time
I am leaving tonight to go see my mom. I have left h with the kids. He will bring them in about a week. Then I have to travel for 6 days for a work shop so he will stay with them at my moms.
He has been staying at the house since he came (last Wednesday) We both have been busy but we would have a drink or two together before our other plans kicked in. He would go out late sometimes and still come back to the house.
Our 13 yr anniversary was Saturday. While we did not celebrate- we did mark it with a drink and agreed that maybe 13 could be a good number. I also left him a card telling him that while the journey has been so very hard , for me it has been worth it because at that moment I was filled with joy for my kids and my family and my life right now and that included him. I didn't say I love you and I didn't say happy anniversary in the card. But it was authentic and I wrote it with love. He thanked me for it.
Our chats are becoming more two way and a little more honest. Not much - but I notice it. I felt very empowered at times to be more honest in my strength - I actually said at one point not to mistake my kindness, and my open door as weakness or fear.
I do realise I can be awkward around him though. I get overwhelmed with panic or emotion for moments and then it passes. He makes no promises, but is around more and did go to the golf dinner with me. And did spend two evenings with me at home before he went out. It's not huge but for him I think it is.
I panic about messing up. About rushing or pushing or nagging. Then I realise I am in control of all of that. I want to see him physically attracted to me again- but realise that him staying in the house is a huge step itself. ( over the past 4 years when I needed him to stay with the kids, he would stay elsewhere and only move in as I was on the way to the airport).
I panic because I think he is only motivated by the kids (which is a great motivation because it means he becomes a better father) but not motivated as a husband.
I know I have to be super careful. He is watching , I know that.
But I feel so proud of where I am now. I realised no one can ever take that away from me. I felt proud that my kids know that I am there, stable, happy, keeping hope in their little hearts and not letting bitterness or angry eat me up and turn me into a depressed and hopeless parent.
This is because of you. Of the place- of all you people. What a blessing it has been and is to walk among you and stand tall.
and so I keep going...
Busting, you should be proud of yourself, no doubt about that. This site is definitely a big help. I think you should give more credit to yourself though. You have come a long way. Your kids are lucky to have you.
I understand the anxiety part. I think that you would not have any anxiety only of you would be completely done standing and if you actually would be disgusted by your H. I think anxiety is normal when someone was a big part of your life, regardless if you have any feelings for them or not.
Remember, the LBS are the last in line when MLC goes through reconnection process. It is great that your H is doing better with the kids. You just have to be patient when it comes to expecting more than he can do now. I see lots of positive signs. Keep going…
Thank you Bright. I agree that there would be less anxiety if H actually disgusted me. And thank you for your continued words of support. I know there is not much to say to my posts because its been SLOW in real time. lol. THE MLC clock is different than ours...
Sometimes I think it would have been 'easier' to be disgusted, hateful and angry towards him but then I know that I would have become an angry, hateful and disgusting human being myself. I would have radiating those characteristics in all of my relationships and in myself.
This path is 'harder' but I would not change it for anything.
I have a question. Quick recap: as you know, H has been 'better' for lack of a better word. Communication is still getting easier between us and there is talk of a possible future where we are all together as a family. He is not as dismissive as me like in the past years, he is kinder, but its almost without emotion still. Like the kindness you would show a far relative or a neighbor.
I remain myself. I am happy with my life, I am making my own plans, decisions, as much as possible I am living in the now, and I continue to practice and utilise my new-learned skills that I have learned over the past couple of years. I am kind to him, upbeat, etc etc.
However....
Without provocation from him. I feel more and more resentment about the past that I thought I had dealt with and let go of. I feel like I have moved forward, I feel so strong and rid of the past. Yet more and more, I find myself having flashes of memories of things he said in the last, the lies, the OW, the hurt. And I get angry.
I quickly work through it and find my center again. But why is this happening? I feel like I am almost sabotaging any small progress. H has not apologized for anything. Neither to me or the kids. He has not acknowledged the pain or hurt. I don't expect it, however I wonder if I can authentically try and build something with him, without it.
Would it and does it matter if he does? If i have moved on from the past. If his actions prove feelings that he does not know how to express...does it matter?
I quickly work through it and find my center again. But why is this happening? I feel like I am almost sabotaging any small progress. H has not apologized for anything. Neither to me or the kids. He has not acknowledged the pain or hurt. I don't expect it, however I wonder if I can authentically try and build something with him, without it.
Would it and does it matter if he does? If i have moved on from the past. If his actions prove feelings that he does not know how to express...does it matter?
Although you say "I don't expect it,"
I wonder if you do.
Why are you angry?
Without provocation from him. I feel more and more resentment about the past that I thought I had dealt with and let go of. I feel like I have moved forward, I feel so strong and rid of the past. Yet more and more, I find myself having flashes of memories of things he said in the last, the lies, the OW, the hurt. And I get angry.
I can tell you that he is not at that point yet.
Maybe someday in the future but not now.
Sorry I have been MIA but been pretty busy myself.
You are making progress Busting
I can see it.
If you look hard then you can too.
Keep moving forward and know that you are going to be fine.
Busting,
I'm sorry you are having some down time. Your h may not apologize for a while because he's not at that stage right now. Some will apologize midway thru the crisis, and it's done in a very off handed way, i.e., doesn't sound sincere. Some don't apologize at all and want to sweep everything under the carpet and continue moving forward. It's very frustrating for you and all of the people who are going through the crisis uninvited.
What you are going through, i.e., resentment is very normal because you are still in mourning over the loss of your old marriage. You'll have days whereby you go back and forth and have flashes of the old life and then remember what is going on now. Feel the anger, let it out here or do some physical work, like exercise, boxing or beating a pillow until the stuffing come out...but get it out. You do not want it to fester and erupt at an inappropriate time. The anger will help move you forward when the time is right.
Hang in there and continue moving forward.
Cadet- I have missed you. I do hope that you being busy has been a positive in your life. No apologies needed.
Maybe I should say I would like an apology - especially if things move forward together. I suppose it would validate the process from his end and help my healing if he were to re-enter my life..? Without one- I can still move forward live my life etc etc yet can't see how I could really share it with him authentically if he doesn't feel a need to apologize? Or am I looking at this wrong?
I suppose it doesn't matter for my own progress. I think part of the anger is this:
Years ago - after the affair started but before I found DB- I was snooping through H's phone and found text message to OW apologizing to her for all of the hurt and pain he has caused her.
That perhaps has not left me yet. How could he apologize to her and not see the pain and hurt he caused to me and the kids?
You are right Cadet. He is not ready.
Thank you for your encouragement and support. You help build my strength and confidence. Everything is going to be alright :-)
((((((Cadet )))))))
Busting , my h can easily say I'm sorry, but does nothing to change his behavior. He even went as far to say to me that he has hurt many. I asked h, who is many? Who you have hurt is me and the kids. He wants to group ow with us? sorry, but a stupid A does not match 20+ years.
I am getting stronger busting.
I am coming to realization.
I am untangling.
Everything will be alright!
Hi Job- thank you for your post :-)
I have been thinking about what you said all day... About still mourning the loss of my old marriage. I hadn't thought about it like that before. I thought I was done mourning. It makes sense though. I am mourning what was.
When does it end though? I can't imagine his never beig a part of me. I can't imagine never missing what we had or being reminded of him at certain times. I just want to continue moving forward and it feels like he won't go away. I need to be careful what I wish for. I would like him to join me and the kids, yet this current state of him being around but no full there... It really is hard for me. It almost hurts more. Does that make sense? It's like he keeps dragging the past four years with him whereever we go, it's there.
Hi willbewell! You are getting stronger - i sense it in your posts as of late. And you can only continue to do so when you continue to move forward. Thank you for your love and encouragement WBW- it always means so much to me to hear from you x
busting,
Mourning is unique for each person. Some mourn rather quickly and others mourn for a long time. It's all up to you and what you are feeling on any given day. Some days, when you think you have moved on, something will remind you of what you experienced long ago w/your h and you might be sad for a minute or you may smile, but that memory will not pain you as much as it does now. Give yourself some time to heal. Like MLC, you can't flip a switch to turn it on and off, nor can you rush the process.
busting, I have been thinking about some of what you are posting. it is so confusing when they are nice and normal one minute and seem not to care the next. We wait so patiently. Of course, we know they are confused. one thing you mentioned was moving to where he is only if it meant being togather as a family again....
As much as I would like my h to come back, I am beginning to see how much work that too will take. At this point I do not believe h is coming back for the kids or me. In fact, he is moving to another state in Sept. He is now very involved in his job, his life.
would you go to where he is if he is not 100 percent in? I know what we want for our kids- an intact family. I would do just about anything to have that. Our h's have to decide that is what they want...
Don't mean to discourage you. just food for thought. You and your h seem to have some good positive interactions. Take care friend. I am praying for the best for all of us.