13 Things The Mentally Strong Don’t Do ~
1. They Don’t Waste Time Feeling Sorry for Themselves
Mentally strong people don’t sit around feeling sorry about their circumstances or how others have treated them. Instead, they take responsibility for their role in life and understand that life isn’t always easy or fair.
2. They Don’t Give Away Their Power
They don’t allow others to control them, and they don’t give someone else power over them. They don’t say things like, “My boss makes me feel bad,” because they understand that they are in control over their own emotions and they have a choice in how they respond.
3. They Don’t Shy Away from Positive Change
Mentally strong people don’t try to avoid change. Instead, they welcome positive change and are willing to be flexible. They understand that change is inevitable and believe in their abilities to adapt.
4. They Don’t Waste Energy on Things They Can’t Control
You won’t hear a mentally strong person complaining over lost luggage or traffic jams. Instead, they focus on what they can control in their lives. They recognize that sometimes, the only thing they can control is their attitude.
5. Don’t Worry About Pleasing Everyone
Mentally strong people recognize that they don’t need to please everyone all the time. They’re not afraid to say no or speak up when necessary. They strive to be kind and fair, but can handle other people being upset if they didn’t make them happy.
6. They Don’t Fear Taking Calculated Risks
They don’t take reckless or foolish risks, but don’t mind taking calculated risks. Mentally strong people spend time weighing the risks and benefits before making a big decision, and they’re fully informed of the potential downsides before they take action.
7. They Don’t Dwell on the Past
Mentally strong people don’t waste time dwelling on the past and wishing things could be different. They acknowledge their past and can say what they’ve learned from it. However, they don’t constantly relive bad experiences or fantasize about the glory days. Instead, they live for the present and plan for the future.
8. They Don’t Make the Same Mistakes Over and Over
Mentally strong people accept responsibility for their behavior and learn from their past mistakes. As a result, they don’t keep repeating those mistakes over and over. Instead, they move on and make better decisions in the future.
9. They Don’t Resent Other People’s Success
Mentally strong people can appreciate and celebrate other people's success in life. They don’t grow jealous or feel cheated when others surpass them. Instead, they recognize that success comes with hard work, and they are willing to work hard for their own chance at success.
10 They Don’t Give Up After the First Failure
Mentally strong people don’t view failure as a reason to give up. Instead, they use failure as an opportunity to grow and improve. They are willing to keep trying until they get it right.
11. They Don’t Fear Alone Time
Mentally strong people can tolerate being alone and they don’t fear silence. They aren’t afraid to be alone with their thoughts and they can use downtime to be productive. They enjoy their own company and aren’t dependent on others for companionship and entertainment all the time but instead can be happy alone.
12. They Don’t Feel the World Owes Them Anything
Mentally strong people don’t feel entitled to things in life. They weren’t born with a mentality that others would take care of them or that the world must give them something. Instead, they look for opportunities based on their own merits.
13. They Don’t Expect Immediate Results
Whether they are working on improving their health or getting a new business off the ground, mentally strong people don’t expect immediate results. Instead, they apply their skills and time to the best of their ability and understand that real change takes time.
Registered: 08/20/13
Posts: 817
Loc: U.S.
This little essay spoke to me...I not only experienced stress or trauma during my life, but both starting from childhood. Both parent's were abusive, so I not only witnessed physical abuse of my siblings, but also received it.
My parent's divorced and that too was traumatic. I had to deal with my daughter's socio-emotional and mental challenges, and that too was traumatic. It is hard to hear you will not have the normal stepping stones of your child's childhood. That you will live in constant stress due to that child's ongoing challenges and crisis'.
Add to that the situation where we had to sell a house of 15 years, to having another go into foreclosure, to husband losing jobs, and now this with the possibility of losing my nest again, because of MLC! I guess I've lived my whole life with stress and trauma...NO WONDER I have anxiety issues! HA!
So the highlighted area of below not only spoke to me but screamed at me. I now understand a bit more why I have difficulty and why it feels so physical and at times impossible to shake off. I refuse to let this beat me anymore...I will not be taken down for what good may I be to my daughters, and for that matter the one who is experimenting?
Most of all I really have to get ahold, for myself, for my sanity. It will probably not happen as fast as I want, but I cannot let it stop me. I HAVE to fight...
Exhaustion
" The Emergency Response can only be maintained for a limited period; eventually continuous activation defeats its beneficial purpose and becomes more damaging than the stressor to which it is responding.
The length from prolonged stress to exhaustion may vary with individuals. Within the context of what I have seen with MLC and Standing, it typically takes a person 6 weeks to 3 months after Bomb Drop to recover some resiliency. Notice I said some resiliency; recovery is a gradual process. Those who do not begin to recover in 3 to 6 months reach emotional and physical exhaustion as the over-stressed body depletes its resources.
Exhaustion may be marked by prolonged panic, anxiety, difficulty with detaching and a greater tendency toward the victim mind-set. Though recovery is gradual, most people recover. If after several months you continue to have problems recovering, consider seeing a doctor and a therapist—something you should do soon after Bomb Drop in the Stress Response phase.
Some of you may read about Exhaustion and fear that since it has been 9 months (or more) you are one of those failures who has failed to detach. This is why I wanted to stress that you notice some resiliency. You are not going to be fully recovered in 6 months, or a year, maybe not in two years. Other than those with an at-home MLCer, a person who reaches an extreme level of emotional exhaustion has made no baby-steps—not even baby-steps that they reversed a day later.
Recovery starts with the smallest of sparks and that mere speck of a spark may be the only bounce you show for a long time. Hold onto that spark. Exhaustion is both physical and emotional and your body may experience the physical consequences—see your doctor, please.
But in the context of resilience I am most concerned with those who yield to emotional exhaustion; they are typically more susceptible to learned helplessness and they give up. But they don’t give up wanting their marriage; they feel more distraught and may be more likely to act with desperation.
No one and no situation is hopeless. I am not trying to discourage those of you who are feeling this way. But I want you to know that you need more help than simply reading information and receiving some fluffy advice about this not being your fault and needing to focus on your Self.
You may have been either emotionally or physically conditioned to susceptibility to stress by having periods of stress and trauma at other times in your life—childhood stress and trauma create the most susceptibility. You may have learned poor coping skills, but it is more important that you realize it may not be anything to do with your moods, behavior or choices. The physiologic stress response becomes more sensitive with activation. What that means is if you have experienced a lot of stress and trauma at other times in your life, your body will have a stronger stress response and may maintain the response longer than someone whose life has had less trauma.
See your doctor. Talk to a therapist. Join a support group. And for all of those, keep communicating.
_________________________
Formerly Workinprogress
H :55
M :over 29 yrs.
Together : 33
D : college
D : adult
BD and left : May 2013
Separated
Experimenting/Replay
PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE
Am I ? Is he ? Why ? Punishers , People Who Express and Punish.
"What is passive aggressiveness?
What are the typical reactions to my passive aggressiveness?
What irrational thinking keeps me being passive aggressive when I disagree with others?
How can I recognize when someone is being passive aggressive with me?
How can I confront a passive aggressive person?
If I find myself being passive aggressive, how can I correct this?
Why is it useful to eliminate my acting passive aggressive?
Steps to eliminating being passive aggressive.
What is passive aggressiveness?
I act in a passive aggressive way when I:
* hide my hostility by seeming to be nice to someone I dislike, and am unable to be honest with the person.
* say I agree with something but don't follow through because I really don't agree with it.
* act opposite to what others are expecting.
* quietly manipulate to get my own way after voicing a completely different opinion, just to keep the peace.
* seek revenge by agreeing and looking "good,'' but never following through on my promises.
* tell people what they want to hear, even if I don't believe in what I am saying.
* try to please people by agreeing to their plan of action, yet actually doing the opposite.
* act one way, which is true to my inner feelings, yet say another.
* am out of touch with my inner feelings; the only way to know how I feel about something is to observe my behavior, don't trust my words.
* hate something or someone but am afraid of letting my true feelings show.
* feel pressured to act or believe in a certain way when I really don't want to.
* avoid conflict at all cost by giving in to others, then procrastinate and never do what I agreed to do.
* am angry but afraid to show my anger, so I quietly take my revenge by doing the opposite. "
How To Break The Cycle
" You don’t need to know the exact definition of passive aggressive behavior to recognize it. Because you’re not just looking at symptoms in what the other person is doing -- you can also pay attention to what you experience. There’s a certain way they say “Yes” that makes you crazy. Because you know they don’t mean “yes”… but how can you argue with somebody who says “yes” to you?
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Passive-aggressive behavior in married couples is the topic of many comic strips and sitcoms. Typically, passive aggressive men are shown hidden behind their newspaper, muttering “Yes, dear” without paying attention. Or: passive aggressive women are shown outwardly complying with their husband’s wishes, only to thwart them as if by accident. Or: one spouse uses silence to control issues...
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Dealing with passive aggressive people can be crazy-making. You feel dismissed, shut down, ignored… but in a subtle enough way that you don’t know how to react. At some point, you explode. Over time, this can turn into a vicious cycle: passive aggressive behavior begets anger and finger-pointing, which in turn begets more passive-aggressive behavior.
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How to break the cycle?
Stop thinking of it as a deficiency of your partner (and your partner alone). Instead, think of it as a dance that the two of you are involved in.
Among the causes of passive aggressive behavior is fear of conflict. The more your partner sees you as a formidable opponent, the more they’ll take what feels to them like the cautious approach: they won't be confrontational, they'll hide their true feelings even from themselves, they'll try to get on with the program... and they'll end up being passive-aggressive.
As this happens, you feel increasingly irritated. You get angry, and they perceive as increasingly formidable... So their aggression gets even more buried, and manifests in more hidden ways...
Lead by example: Take responsibility for your own actions. Admit your role in the dance--the ways your partner may feel intimidated by your more overt aggression. Commit to making it safe for your partner to express anger (I say "express", not "act out" anger).
In the long run, bringing out the issues and feelings in the open will help you deal with them squarely.
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What I'm talking about is "cleaning up" the communication: making the hidden aggression visible, so that the real underlying problems can be addressed instead of being hidden behind the ongoing frustrations of passive aggression.
Creating a climate of safe and open communication within your couple can go a long way toward changing the pattern of passive aggression, on the one hand, and anger and blame on the other hand. "
Both of us have passive aggressive tendencies. Both of us fear confrontation, rebuke, and abandonment...
Looks like some growing is in order! This will be painful, but I believe a necessary step in my personal healing.
I also need to help my girls with this too! His siblings also have issues with this. My oh my what a wonderful mess in which we live!
This is something I can work on...expressing disagreement, and anger. Also, being more approachable, open to dissent and disagreement.
And the growth begins...
Waffles DONE! And some leftover for when daughter comes.
Now I have to package, tomorrow and mail.
I'm thinking I'll postpone my exams until after Christmas...just too much to try and prepare for.
I'll get to the gym, and TRY and decorate...then work on project.
Showah time! Can't touch this dododododo do do do!
^^^ that up there hit pretty close to home. Looks like W and I were both passive aggressive towards each other. You just opened my eyes to another one of my issues.
Good for YOU, Indigo...this is something that won't change overnight, but being aware is more than half way there!
Bust on!
13 Things The Mentally Strong Don’t Do ~
Thanks for posting this Ambivalent! I needed this today. I go through feelings of being so strong and independent, sometimes followed by moments of feeling sorry for myself. I don't want to be that person.
Dwelling on the past is something that my husband and I do a lot. Why on earth should we worry about or be resentful over things that we did 13 years ago when we were only 20 years old! For one thing, we are not the same people we were back then.
GOOD MORNING DIVORCE BUSTERS!
Cue the music, I'm gonna digdigdigdigdigdig dig the whole day through!
Disney "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves"
Goals for the day:
shower
eat
gym
Petco
Staples
package and mail
project
DANCE CLASS
So DR-s what have YOU done for YOU today?
Did some more reading on MLC yesterday, read on passive aggressive tendencies. Kept my mind open and in a learning mode. Made some decisions, and hope it will ease some of the temporary stress. Have another interview this week.
We'll see how this one goes!
The next post will be some of what I read on MLC. Really put things into perspective.
Lot's to do, so toodle-loo!
<3<3's,
Ambi
This one's for you my Pudster!
" Male midlife crisis is a topic I know something about "
" My lovely, stable, considerate, witty partner of 19 years had one - bang on cue - at 40. David became withdrawn and unpleasant, started going to the gym, danced on his own till 3am (to the music he used to listen to at 21), took a lover, talked as though his logic had been ripped out and thrown away - I mean serious goobledegook - then ran away in the middle of the night. And finally, this man who'd never raised his voice to me - nor I to him - became violent.
It all unravelled - or, rather, he unravelled - with alarming speed. His midlife crisis (MLC) was florid, torrid, unexpected and overwhelming. It started when his mother was diagnosed with cancer just before he hit forty in December 2007. She died in April 2007 and 12 weeks later he ran away from home, walking off down the track, little bag in hand, like a 12-year-old...running away from home.
Over the next few months I watched in amazement each time we met to discuss what we would do with our home (here in France. ) He was unrecognizable, as if he'd had a personality and character transplant. He'd always been a man with plenty of integrity and part of that had been reflected in his dismay when we heard of families breaking up, husbands cheating, wives and children being hurt and abandoned. He worked as a social worker, too, often dealing with broken families where the children were hurt and troubled by family break up. Now he didn't care about any of that. His girlfriend was a married woman with a 4-year-old and a 6-year-old. Along with her, he broke up those kids' family and seemed totally unaware there was any problem with that. He was also unaware I was hurt. "Nothing" he announced "has happened to hurt you."
Well, apart from losing my partner of 19 years obviously...
It was as if he simply couldn't think or reason normally. And in fact, one evening he told me that indeed he couldn't think normally. "I feel as if my head is full of spaghetti" this 40-year-old man told me, speaking in the voice of a teenager. On another occasion he said the destruction of our life together was like watching skittles. "They were all fine and standing up" he said in amazement "and then this great big ball came along and knocked them all down."
Uhuh. A secret affair will do that to a longstanding relationship.
At one point when he was angling - perhaps - to come home, he also said that he couldn't trust his judgement about anything. He tried to sleep with me (no) at the same time as telling me his married girlfriend was the love of his life. In the next breath he'd say he only saw her twice a week and would "dump her" if she asked for anything more. One day he told me he'd like to live with his girlfriend "for 20 years then come home so we can enjoy our retirement together." He said he was going to go and live in Bermuda. Or Australia. Or Jersey. Or the west of Scotland. Or the east of Scotland. He recited those options within a half-hour conversation.
It was like listening to a naive unworldly teenager.
Many women focus almost entirely on the other woman and the infidelity when their husband's having a midlife crisis. But midlife crisis is about much more than the secret affair, the infidelity and the other woman. Cheating is one expression of a midlife identity crisis in which the man (most often it's men, though women have MLCs too) panics about what he's done in life and who he's become. The trigger/s may be a significant birthday - typically 40, 45 or 50 - or the death of a parent or friend. It may be the appearance of grey hairs or problems at work. Some theories also say that a wife or partner approaching menopause can panic a husband, reminding him that he too is aging.
Whatever the triggers, the effects can be very destructive. Midlife crisis is nothing like a reasoned midlife transition where an individual decides to make adjustments to an unsatisfactory life. Most people take stock at midlife and many decide to make changes. Whether they change their partner, decide to divorce and end their marriage, look for a new job or career or alter other aspects of their life, the changes are thought through. They may not always be wise changes and they won't always work out - but they're not made in the same way that people in MLC make changes. A man in midlife crisis tries to get back to his youth. He tries to shrug off his identity because he's deeply unhappy with it. In effect, he runs away from the life - and family - he's built to date. Because his middle-aged identity makes him so unhappy, it unravels and chaos takes the place of the personality and character he developed in the first half of his life. I'd describe what I witnessed as being not a nervous breakdown but a breakdown in an established identity.
Men in MLC may abandon their families with hardly a thought, get into relationships with girls younger than their daughters, take up with prostitutes only after their money (and fail to see that), become alcoholic, start abusing drugs and/or, as in my MLCer's case, suddenly become violent. They do many wildly irrational things and often talk non-sense. David once said he wanted to commit suicide and twice suggested I should. On a lighter note, I came home one day to find that he had put everything in our front room out in the garden. Books, furniture, carpets, lamps - everything. Used to his odd behaviour by now, I asked neutrally what he was doing. Busying about in a frenzy, he replied "It is not possible to clean a room without taking everything out of it." It felt like that might be a bit of a metaphor for what was happening in his head!
The fallout from MLC - divorce, family break-up, financial ruin, ill health and sometimes suicide - is highly destructive for individuals and more widely corrosive in society. "
Misspellings are not mine, this was copied and pasted. ;D
" Midlife crisis is a little researched but common problem. The jokey image of a man in midlife crisis (MLC) is that he'll dress like a teenager, start working out all of a sudden, buy himself a shiny red sports car or Harley Davidson and possibly ditch his wife for a younger girl, often a colleague or old flame rekindled by Facebook or Friends Reunited.
All those factors may indeed come into play. But MLC is a serious and destructive problem and at its root is a searing identity crisis. Although middle-aged women can experience midlife crises just as severely as men do, MLC is far more prevalent among men.
Midlife Crisis is an Extreme Version of Normal Midlife Transition
MLC generally hits a man with little warning in his late 30s or early 40s but can also hit during the fifties. Midlife is a time when most of us fairly naturally assess our lives and for some people that can be an uncomfortable exercise. Many of the hopes held in our youth may have been dashed by midlife - projects may have floundered, career ambitions may be unfulfilled. And midlife brings a natural sense that time is running out. However disppointing or frustrating those experiences may be, most people with reasonably good mental and emotional health can come to terms with them, perhaps making some changes or adjustments, and life goes on. In fact, a degree of transition in midlife is normal and necessary just as it is in adolescence.
Crisis at midlife is altogether different. In MLC, life's disappointments and frustrations are experienced as overwhelming and threatening. Everyone knows longstanding and apparently stable marriages that suddenly broke down and ended in divorce when the couple reached their forties or fifties, families that fell apart because the husband began an extra-marital affair and subsequently ran off. In MLC, what goes along with that behaviour is a peculiar, dramatic and often baffling set of personality changes. The infidelity in itself is not the defining issue. Rather, the acquisition of a mistress is one of numerous symptoms of chaos and confusion in a man's mind as he feels totally panicked by ageing, loss of youth, detachment and instability.
The Behaviour of a Man or Woman in Midlife Crisis Becomes Wildly out of Character
His tastes in just about everything from music to food to clothes are likely to change almost overnight. He's also likely, if he talks to his wife and family at all, to express views which are the exact opposite of the views he held for the first half of his life. He won't see any inconsistency in that either. He's likely to want and cause upheaval, may insist on selling the house or moving to another continent or becoming a carpenter when he's always been an English lecturer. Or he may just run away like a scalded cat.
He'll be extremely concerned about his hair, his looks and his body and preoccupied with sex. His sexual behaviour with his wife may change, subtly or dramatically, making her wonder what's influencing him. He may become highly secretive or simply announce he's seeing another woman and look baffled that his wife is so upset. There is almost always another woman in the equation when a man has a midlife crisis. Her value is often simply either that she is new and so she doesn't know who has been up until now or she's from his youth and brings his 'young' identity back to him. Either way, she's chosen because she accepts his new persona, which is often reckless and always unstable. He may also drink, experiment with drugs, engage in risky sexual activity and spend money he hasn't got.
Men in MLC become extremely selfish and develop a limitless sense of entitlement. He may have been a doting husband and father for 25 years but in crisis nothing matters except himself and his needs and wants. Not his wife, not his children and not the wider world.
Even worse for his wife is that she'll get the blame for how he feels. Men in midlife crisis are often very angry and rewrite the history of their marriages, 'discovering' that they were rarely or never happy. Unable to deal with the guilt of destroying their families they accuse their often stunned wives of making them unhappy.
MLC Can't Be Stopped or 'Cured'
For many wives, the most pressing question when faced with these developments in a hitherto happy and kind husband is how to help him stabilise and get the marriage back to normal.
Unfortunately, MLC doesn't work like that. A man in MLC is having a profound internal crisis and literally no matter what anyone says he'll go through it just as a teenager may go through a particularly stormy adolescence. It's a developmental crisis if you like. There's no short cut for the MLCer and no short cut for his wife or family either. He won't connect with any insights anyone offers him if they don't fit with the chaos swirling in his head.
One of the most helpful resources on the net for people whose partners are in midlife crisis is XXXXXXXXXXX insert Divorce Busting.com
People from all over the world, men as well as women, who were left reeling by a partner's personality change and wildly out-of-character behaviour, discuss their experiences and lend each other suport. Hearing the many hundreds of stories recounted there, partners are reassured to recognise the astonishing similarities in MLC behaviour right down to the vocabulary MLCers use. There are also people on the forum who have gone through midlife crisis and explain how fogged their brains were in their MLC years.
The best approach to a partner's midlife crisis is to occupy yourself with you, not him. Once he's in MLC you can only leave him to get on with it and try to protect yourself from the worst fallout. He'll be gone for some time. The man you knew may never re-emerge from the personality earthquake he's going through. Some MLCers do emerge and reconciliation between husband and wife, often divorced while the crisis is in full swing, does sometimes happen. But partners need in effect to start their relationship from scratch. Many more marriages end in divorce and family break-up due to male midlife crisis, with all the attendant emotional, social and financial pain. Homes are lost, children are hurt, wives are left unexpectedly alone at midlife. Whatever the eventual outcome though, understanding the mechanisms of MLC is a real help to a wife once her husband's entered the Twilight Zone..." I added the T.Z.
Mid-Life Crisis
" My husband went through a midlife crisis 3 years ago, at the very young age of 40! Prior to the crisis, I thought everything was perfect, we have 2 kids and I thought we would be together forever. Boy did I have a wake up call!
Buckle your seat belts, it was a very bumpy ride, one I do not wish on anyone.
My husband began to withdraw a bit. He slowly began to come home later and later from work, which led to occasional nights of not coming home at all. I in turn was becoming more and more angry. I would question his actions, and with little remorse, he would do it again in a few days.
I tried to sit and talk with my husband. I was starting to see coldness in his eyes. Like "No one" was inside. The once loving man, was gone. He did not know what he wanted.
The thing about midlife crisis is, there is NOTHING you can do, unfortunately. You can rant and rave and give ultimatums, and chances are he will leave. Nothing you do will change things, he needs to find his way through this, on his own.
After trying some tough love and realizing that wasn't getting me anywhere, I decided the only one I could control was myself, and that is what I did. I kept some distance, but treated him as I wanted to be treated. I was nice and kind and the loving person I have always been.
I have to tell you, I read article after article on the Internet, and nothing worked- I was now "winging it."
It ended up being the tool that brought him "back home." His crisis lasted almost 2 years, and there where many many days, I cried. I had no one to turn to. I had to keep living and getting on with life for the kids, but most of the time, I took it minute by minute. Even though I am not the most churchiest person, I did turn to the church for sanity!
In the end, he told me the reason he came back was because he realized how good of a person I am, and he will never find someone as forgiving and loving as I. He said I am impossible to leave.
I did hear what he said, and it makes sense- It is easy to leave someone being rude or hateful, but it is difficult to leave a kind person.
We are now 100% better than ever. We needed to go through this experience to get to where we are today. The relationship is now, in many ways, perfect. We both realize how lucky we are, and at anytime, someone you love can be gone. We appreciate each other and what we have together. We feel thankful for our family and home.
My advice is to hang in there if you can, and remember, you can not control how THEY act in a midlife crisis, the only thing you can control is your behavior! "
AND MORE!
"
A is for anger, adultery, aggression and abandonment. If you're dealing with a male in midlife crisis, you're very likely to see all of these. Every male midlife crisis (MLC) has its own peculiarities but they have much in common too. Some wives and partners see the crisis developing over time; for others it's sprung on them one day when a previously apparently contented husband announces he's leaving because he needs "time and space." The Speech is a fairly standard feature of MLC. Your husband may tell you he loves you but is not in love with you any more. He'll probably list your faults - these excuse him walking away. He'll either tell you there's no-one else - usually a whopping lie - or else he'll tell you in a blasé fashion that yeh, there is someone else and what's it got to do with you really? Many MLC-ers reveal another woman in their lives who they say at first is "just-a-friend".
Stand well back
Often MLC is accompanied by overtly weird behaviour. It is very different from midlife transition in which people weigh up their position in life and rationally choose to make changes. Your husband will say and do things that seem completely out of character. Everything he's ever worked for and cared about may be rejected. His tastes and opinions will radically change. He'll have a huge sense of entitlement, feeling that life has short-changed him and now he deserves to have "everything I want." His panic at reaching middle-age drives fairly desperate and reckless behaviour and if he feels you or the children are in his way he'll walk right over you.
Many women respond to the aggression, strange behaviour and affairs which signal male midlife crisis with disbelief at first. Which is entirely understandable. Suddenly you're living with someone unrecognisable. Often, a wife's next instinct is to reason with him. Unfortunately, it's not possible. A man in midlife crisis has his own agenda and his thought processes are very screwed up. Where once he may have been the fount of logic and wisdom, he'll now come out with things that by any standard are just plain weird.
So the next response is often to try and advise him - to urge him to get help. But he's not listening. He may be about to steal from his company and run away with a teenaged hooker, but for the moment it makes a lot of sense to him.
Your best bet is to read as much as you can about MLC and understand - hard as it is - that this is not about you, or your home, or your kids - you're more than likely exactly the same people he used to love. Instead it's about an overwhelming panic experienced by some men around and after 40. It addles their brains and sets them off on a quest for a different life. Whatever the shape of the life they've lived up to now, they want something different, just to be sure they're not missing out. They typically have no insight whatever - no understanding that they're really chasing lost youth and they can't have it back even if they do have sex with someone young enough to be their daughter or become a beach bum or start going to nightclubs and dancing till 3am. Rather than coming to terms with ageing, which would require figuring out how they're feeling and why, they seek exterior solutions - rented accommodation away from their homes, drink or drugs, cars or bikes, new wives or mistresses. And often a new, 'younger' style of dressing and a gym subscription to get back the body they had in their twenties.
You can't control him. Let him go.
Women dealing with MLC husbands also often struggle to control them. You can't. The best you can do is decide what you will and won't put up with, as far as that's possible. For example, many men in crisis leave their families, but still keep their stuff at 'home'. If that doesn't suit you, you can give him a deadline for collecting it and tell him after that you'll put it in the street. Then the onus is on him to get his stuff. Many MLC-ers also keep a key and come and go as they want. A lawyer can advise you whether you have to accept that.
In more extreme cases, lawyers are essential (unfortunately) to try and stop a husband wrecking the family finances and acting in other abusive ways.
But apart from looking after your own practical and emotional interests as well as you can at this time - and MLC can last for years - the best advice is not to struggle to get him back. For one thing, he may not be worth having back now. And if he does eventually come out of the other side as someone remotely like the man you used to know, then he'll take steps to reconcile. If you've been looking after yourself, you'll be in a better position to deal with him at that point than if you've spent a year or two weeping, pleading and pursuing. For your own sake, let go of him emotionally because even if he does resurface, he'll be gone for some time. "
When will she stop??
"
Male midlife crisis is different from a midlife transition in which a man typically weighs his achievements against his goals and considers whether he is happy or contented. Where the evaluation is mostly negative, decisions are taken to adjust or transform aspects of his life in a rational way. People going through a healthy midlife transition also take account of the feelings and interests of their family and friends.
Midlife Crisis - not the same as midlife transition
It's perfectly sensible to engage in this sort of evaluation. If you are unhappy in your job, dissatisfied with your marriage, feel you need to revamp your image or learn new skills then it makes sense to figure out a sensible way to address those issues.
Midlife crisis (MLC) is something else - as anyone who's been through one and come out the other side in one piece will tell you. Their friends and family will also tell you what a rocky ride it was, often ending marriages and friendships.
MLC is the subject of much debate within and outside the health and mental health professions. Some researchers believe it's a classifiable syndrome. Others think it's an expression of some other psychological illness such as depression or anxiety disorder.
MLC - suddenly your husband is a stranger
The partners of men going through MLC are frequently in little doubt that it's a form of mental illness. They are stunned as the previously stable men in their lives are transformed by an identity crisis which generates illogical and often uncontrolled behavior. So out-of-character does the behavior of husbands and fathers become that they are unrecognizable to their wives and children.
Infidelity often results from or feeds into the identity crisis which underlies MLC. But it's often only one element. Men in MLC typically become preoccupied with sex, often changing their tastes and habits dramatically. They develop a huge sense of 'entitlement', feeling they have a right to do and get anything they want. And they become rigidly self-centred. Anyone who is perceived as standing in their way can expect to be ignored or maltreated and sometimes physically attacked.
The midlife crisis male tries to go back in time
The evidence that they are ageing triggers panic in the MLC-er. As they look for an impossible solution to getting older, they're prone to try increasingly desperate measures: frenetic exercise, reckless overspending, too much drinking, drug abuse, age-inappropriate clothes, night-clubs, acquisition of the obligatory Ferrari, Porsche or Harley Davidson, and frequently a young girlfriend or a string of affair partners.
Because they are not able to cope with ageing, usually through a sense of failure or inadequacy relating to youthful goals, they attempt to go back in time: to dress as they used to, to date young girls as they used to, to dance all night as they used to. It's as if they suddenly realize twenty or thirty years have passed and they're not 21any more. Suddenly they're driven to try and return to their youth.
Laurent - a 55 year old in midlife crisis
Midlife has destabilized them. And once they lose a grip of the identity they've carved out over the past twenty or thirty years, literally anything can happen. The first casualty is their sense of reason; the next is often their family.
Lisette and Laurent were married for 28years and it seemed they had it all. A beautiful daughter, handsome son, beautiful home in the south of France, no money worries, common interests. In his mid-fifties, Laurent went out and bought a red Ferrari. Friends teased him that he was having a midlife crisis but seriously underestimated the signal.
Within months he'd run off with a south American girl 30 years younger than himself. Suddenly he'd thrown away the life, home and family he'd carefully built up over decades, devastating his wife and children. And staking everything on a girl younger than his daughter with whom he had no language in common. Despite the pleadings of his children and the fact that his already slim wife rapidly lost weight and became seriously ill, he was set on breaking up the family. When asked about the age gap between himself and his girlfriend - 30 years - he looked confused and said: "I know there is a gap - but I can't see it."
Living with his new girlfriend, he is now poised to start a second family but is not entirely decided. He has said he may settle with her and have children "if she is honest". His MLC reasoning prevents him from seeing that posing the question to himself and others indicates a problem and lack of trust in the new relationship. He is not able to evaluate whether or not this young girl is a gold-digger or a genuine partner.
Family breakdown during midlife crisis
His family meanwhile look on in horror. Lisette has moved into a apartment and is trying to rebuild her life. She goes to the house when Laurent is not there. Laurent meanwhile goes to the house when Lisette is not there. He has never brought the girlfriend with him. The children go on their own or when one or other parent is there. They can no longer see the parents together or meet all together as a family. They do not ever want to meet the girlfriend and both feel a visceral disgust that she is younger than they are. They are profoundly disappointed in their father.
The future looks equally awkward and painful. There will most likely be a divorce and property will have to be divided. Laurent may produce half-siblings for his son and daughter, against their wishes. If his children have children before he does, his grandchildren will have half-uncles and/or aunts younger than themselves. Lisette and Laurent will always have to manage co-grandparenting around a second family.
As regards Laurent himself, time will tell whether he will look back on his midlife crisis with regret or not. Perhaps he occasionally wonders whether his girlfriend will still be around when he's 69 and she's still in her thirties..."
Whatever you do ...Don't move to Spain!
"
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"I've got a great idea - let's totally dismantle our lives!"
Gillian and Robin were married for 15 years. They had a great home in New York. After meeting as undergraduates they both went on to achieve doctorates. He was a professor of molecular biology and she was a researcher in neuroscience. Their marriage seemed pretty good. Neither had wanted children and they enjoyed the freedom they had outside their busy careers to give one another attention.
Then one weekend Robin announced at dinner that he wanted then both to quit their jobs, sell the house, leave New York and move to Spain. Gillian was completely astonished. Neither one of them had ever so much as holidayed in Spain and neither spoke a word of Spanish. They'd met and married in New York, they worked in New York, their home and friends and relatives were right there in the city. Their whole life, in fact, was in New York.
But Robin revealed more and more excitement about the idea of leaving. He didn't exactly try to convince her it was a good idea - it was more that he simply kept enthusing about how much he wanted to do it. "I'm 50" he'd say. "If I'm ever going to have a real adventure, it's now or never."
He seemed to want this so badly that Gillian decided after a while that, despite serious misgivings, she'd go along with it.
They resigned the well-paid posts they had loved so much, sold the home they'd lovingly created, bid farewell to friends and family - and went to Barcelona. The Catalan city is of course beautiful, chock-full of Gaudi's flamboyant buildings, busy tapas bars and wild nightlife. Robin seemed hyper-stimulated by everything he saw - the architecture, the Spanish, the food... This was the new life he'd dreamed of.
They moved quickly from a hotel to a rented flat outside the centre and had their two cats shipped over from the US.
Although Gillian felt disorientated by the new culture and foreign language, she made positive efforts to settle. She started to learn Spanish and made the flat comfortable. Robin meanwhile found a job at one of the Barcelona's universities and for a while they explored and enjoyed the city together.
Not for long.
Gill answered her phone one day, mid-morning, and it was Robin. He asked her to come to his lab, now. "There was something strange in his tone. He sounded a bit hyper." But she went, thinking that maybe he'd found a great new place to go for lunch.
When she got there he took her out onto the lawn in front of the building and with no preamble told her the marriage was over. He added almost as an afterthought that he wanted to be single so he could have lots of casual sex with women he'd meet in online chatrooms.
Dazed, Gillian had the impression she was looking at a total stranger. She could hardly believe what he was saying. Nor could she believe the almost throwaway tone in which he was announcing the end of their marriage. Robin seemed not even to realize that what he had said was shocking. In acute midlife crisis, he was too high on the prospect of a new, single life.
In the following months, Gillian struggled to cope with this new bizarre turn in her life. Her previously stable husband and best friend had vanished, leaving her alone in an unfamiliar city on a continent she didn't know, where she had no income and couldn't speak the language. She couldn't fathom what had happened in her husband's mind. She realized now that everything about leaving America had been part of some seismic shift in Robin's identity. She also saw, looking back, that he'd been indirectly expressing anxiety about his age since before he turned fifty. Used to his stability and reliable nature, she hadn't seen the signs of the developing crisis.
Robin left most of his stuff at their flat when he moved out. Gillian continued to receive their joint bank account statements there and was horrified to see he was paying for internet porn site subscriptions, sleazy sex clubs and viagra. On the occasions when she managed to speak to him, he showed no remorse whatsoever for what he was doing. He was also aggressive that she was - inevitably - spending 'his' money to feed herself and their two cats. He showed no interest at all, either, in the pets he'd always made a huge fuss of.
When the 'brand new life' doesn't work out
For over a year Gillian battled to rebuild some sort of life in these shocking new circumstances. Robin told her he wanted a divorce and, unhappily, she agreed. For months they had minimal contact apart from brief emails about the divorce. He told her he wanted to give her as little financial support as possible. "Why didn't she get a job" he asked "and stop draining his finances?"
Then one day he sent an email asking to meet for lunch. They'd finalise details of the alimony so the divorce date could be set. Reluctant and very nervous, she went to the restaurant prepared to find him aggressive and opposed to the settlement being finalised by their lawyers.
To her complete astonishment, he proposed getting back together again and returning to the States. Dazed all over again, she said nothing but just watched and listened as he blithely proposed buying a home together in New York again and going back to their old jobs. Neither his tone nor his words indicated that the pair of them had been estranged for over a year or that he'd been repeatedly unfaithful, uncaring and cruel.
Gillian weighed her options after listening to Robin and some days later she took him back. "I just couldn't face the future alone" she says. "I'm far from certain that I can face a future with him either but I want to try to save the marriage. He's gone through some enormous identity crisis related to midlife and I hope he'll re-stabilise."
In fact, Robin is a long way from having emerged from his midlife crisis and Gillian would do well to protect herself from his chaotic behaviour. The problem is that she has accepted him back exclusively on his terms. He still has the classic totally self-centred outlook of MLC. And a typical sense of entitlement which leads him to feel his needs and desires must be met no matter what the consequences.
Like many men in MLC, he is trying to change external factors in his life rather than figure out and address the internal anxieties and panic he feels. That means he's seeking solutions in all the wrong places. The move to Spain was supposed to make him feel better about himself. It didn't work but his new answer is to move back to the US. He is still seeking relief by changing geographic location. He also hoped that dumping his wife and sleeping around would fill the scary void that opened up in his life in MLC. That didn't work either. He was still looking outside himself or 'self-medicating' as they say on the XXXXX website. Now back in the States, in his old job, he's likely to carry on thrashing about looking for new, reckless ways to feel better.
Unfortunately for Gillian - as for Robin - the rollercoaster ride of MLC looks set to continue..
This one is for those who are dealing with flash backs and triggers.
"
Twenty-one years ago, Ryan ran away with another woman, a colleague he'd been having an affair with for some months. He left his wife of twelve years, Caroline, alone with their ten-year old daughter, five-year-old son and six-week old baby daughter. The baby had been born on Christmas Eve.
Caroline filed for divorce.
Ryan returned after two years in which the couple had functioned awkwardly as co-parents. After a year they remarried, and the family has been reunited for nineteen years.
Last Christmas, however, the family, along with in-laws, was having a drinks party and the youngest daughter's 21st birthday and Caroline drank too much. With no apparent trigger, she began talking about the period of separation. Before long she found herself weeping and ranting about the pain of those years, what a bastard Ryan had been and how miserable the kids had been.
Ryan remained pretty quiet, sorrowfully saying that he didn't feel this was the time to have this discussion.
But Caroline continued that it hadn't been a convenient time either to be left alone with three little kids. It wasn't her fault he'd had an affair and run off with his mistress and yet she felt her older daughter in particular had blamed her for the abandonment and not Ryan.
One of the underlying problems here was that the couple had had problems with their oldest daughter ever since the family break-up. A sweet girl, far from difficult or off the rails, Hannah has nevertheless been distant from her mother growing up because she resented her accepting Ryan back into the home and then remarrying him. She had been convinced by Caroline's frequent assertions that, as a family, they would never take him back and then Caroline U-turned and did take him back. Hannah had felt betrayed or fooled by her mother ever since. Ironically Hannah and her father get on very well.
A second problem for Caroline is that their only son developed a fixation about fathers and fatherhood when Ryan left the family. This continued after his return and, direct consequence or not, the boy became a dad himself at 18 and gave up his plan of going to university.
A third issue that surfaced on that Christmas Eve was Caroline's continuing resentment of the other woman. She lives in the same area and with the same husband and now has children of her own that she didn't have at the time of the affair with Ryan.Caroline remains angry at the other woman and bitter that she went on, in Caroline's view, to build a nice little family that has never known the grief of separation or divorce. She resents too that the other woman has never had to find out what it's like to be abandoned with three small children.
Even where a husband in midlife crisis returns to his wife and the family remains re-united for twenty years it is still clearly possible for old wounds to re-open. The extent of the fallout between a couple and within a family after midlife crisis affairs and divorce is unforeseeable. It can last a long time beyond the acute crisis phase. "
You've been posting such great info!!! thank you:)
Enjoy your list today.....you go girl
Wow, Ambiv, you’ve been busy posting all this. Thank you for that.
Well, if I apply all I read here to my H, he doesn’t feet most of it. With the exception of being concerned about his age and trying to party like a teenager. But, he doesn’t try to dress younger, and he didn’t change his personality to be the opposite.
“Midlife crisis is nothing like a reasoned midlife transition where an individual decides to make adjustments to an unsatisfactory life. Most people take stock at midlife and many decide to make changes. Whether they change their partner, decide to divorce and end their marriage, look for a new job or career or alter other aspects of their life, the changes are thought through. They may not always be wise changes and they won't always work out - but they're not made in the same way that people in MLC make changes.” – I think this is where my H fits the most. I guess I have to abandon the hope that he will “wake up” one day, because it does seem that his decision to end the M is a long thought and rational…
Brightness,
Don't forget that confusion is the major trait. Those above were some extremes. They kind of make me feel a bit better, or should I say..." it could be worse! ".
Mine fits MLC to the tee. Major confusion, doesn't know what he wants, wishes he had done some things differently, wishes he had saved, he loves me, he's not physically attracted, he kisses and hugs me, sneaks glances, doesn't want to live a separate life , is living a separate life.
Not sure where this is going, knows what he doesn't want.
He's all over the place, I'm not dating, but has a ton of Viagra, and has taken it. Other stuff too.
Cycling up and down. Contact, no contact. Puts gas in the SUV, propane in the tank.
I've just come to the conclusion that whatever happens happens. Do I like it , uh, Hell to the NO!
But I've got to focus on myself. I'm learning as much as I can, just like I learned about ADHD, OCD, Depression, Anxiety, highly gifted children, yadda yadda yadda.
Does it svck to be dealing with this? Do I reeeeally have to answer that?
I just figure, like I've had to do in the past crisis' , make the best of it.
I'm going to learn from every negative situation, and so far, I know what to look for in any other possible relationship.
Think about that! We know, look to see if their parent's are still married. Listen to them about their relationship with their parent's , past AND present. Do they have any of the following: motorcycle, sports car, boat, gym membership, and how long have they had them? How long were they married? Did they "grow apart"? Is he looking for the " soul mate "?
Do they want to p a r t y ? Do they speak in teenage tongue?
At this point I'm actually laughing about this. Go on a dating website...it is somewhat sad, and hilarious at the same time. Don't get me wrong, I see the pain; if you don't have a sense of humor madness will set in.
I'm a worker. Meaning I know marriages take work, doing something well takes work, succeeding takes work. I went from not being able to draw a stick figure to drawing portraits. I went from not getting a tennis ball over the net to acing opponents. I went from not knowing a thing about textile art to winning awards with my creations and got juried into shows!
I think I can do this. I'm not a quitter, never thought he was, but maybe he is now...who knows? I know my daughters are going to see the fight rather than flight in their mother.
I've always been a survivor, had to when younger and I will again. He can join me or not. I'm not going to lose my daughters, or my health over what he's doing.
It's a shame that he is allowing his fear of the future to eat his today.
Why thank you Blanca de la Rosa!
It's time to knuckle down.
Got to the office store for the project, pet store to get food for the wee bairn, craft store for boxes and tissue. I passed up on buying a hamburger, for having ice cream tonight!
I've shredded old wrapping paper and tissue to put in the gift boxes, and now I'm off to the gym!
Toodle to the loo!
Ambiv, I like your spirit. I always come to your thread to read your posts, you express yourself so well.
I’m with you here when you talk about any possible relationship. I will definitely be looking for all the signs.
I know you posted the MLC information that shows some extremes. I’m glad I don’t have to deal with it. My H for the most part has been sticking to his decision of moving on with his life without me. I see some contradictions sometimes in his behavior, but nothing major to give me even slightest hope that he could change his mind.
I’ve always been a strong person too, and I will survive this, no doubt about it.
Hi, these are good posts, and capture what some people challenge - the strangeness and alienation of the MLCer. My xh would like us to have the situation Gillian and Robin - a sort of reconciliation but without him acknowledging the past eight years. He doesn't want to live with me but he does want me in his life.
I think there is no psychological reality to this, and it is profoundly unhealthy. These people really do have to work through all of this in order to have a relationship of any meaning.
Bea,
I agree w/you, they must work through their issues and heal in order to a meaningful relationship down the road. If, they don't work through all of their issues and heal, they will continue to repeat the same mistakes again and again in future relationships.
Well ladies you hit the nail on the head, yet again. My father had a few relationships, then he married a woman five years older than my older sister. He lost me on that one. It disgusted me, and he never ever made an attempt to be a loving father. Well to make a long story short...SHE had a mid-life crisis! Left my father about a few years ago, for another man. Much younger than my father!
My husband's father had three wives before he just passed away this past year! Neither of them ever learned.
At this point , it would hurt terribly if he decided to get married to another woman. I'm sure something will happen soon come January or February.
I know these men are in panic mode, but I'm not very attracted to cowardly behavior. We all have baggage, and a crisis shows us who we really are, and who they really are.
I'm not sure yet if will want someone who doesn't look within themselves, and fight and grow. Yes we were young when we married, we also both took the same vows. I meant mine, and I took those vows seriously. I didn't say I would take him in the better times, in richer and only in health.
I could have bailed, when he brought a stripper in our home for his friend's bachelor party. I could have bailed when he lost his job, and we had to sell our house of fifteen years. I could have bailed when he used a stripper. I didn't. Those were not for better.
He may not have had a choice to have this crisis, but he does have a choice what he does with his behavior. It is not okay to rob a bank, physically abuse someone, steal, rape or murder. Yes those are extremes, but it is not okay to desert someone either. This is what he has done.
He could have communicated , gotten himself into weekly therapy, researched , instead he ran away. This is a person of weak character. I'm so glad I don't have sons, for I would hate for them to learn this behavior and sometime down the road repeat it and cause another woman this pain.
Oh well, C'est la vie!
Tonight was the last dance class 'til January. I'll miss it. We're still have the Friday dances. I believe the theme for dance is tacky Christmas!
I'm excited for the Friday after Christmas. My youngest said she'd come to the Friday lesson before the dance and stay for the dance! I hope she likes it , and has a great time! We already share tennis, this would be another fun thing I could do into my elderly years!
Job, I haven't reached out to H. about Christmas. Since he's been A W O L , I'm wondering if I should just let it be. I will invite his brother, but I'm not that enthused about extending to H. I figure he's a big boy, and if he's not willing to reach out, it probably is the best. My girl's need to see him for who he is right now, and if he makes no attempt then it is what it is. Let me know what you think, I'm reeeeally not feeling the need. He doesn't want to participate. I'm not the only one he's chosen not to contact.
I'm not in the mood for lies, stories, or excuses.
* I meant when he used a prostitute, not stripper.
Amb,
First thanks for the post on being mentaly strong. I know I need to continue to remind myself of some of them...
There is so much in what you have said here....
"He may not have had a choice to have this crisis, but he does have a choice what he does with his behavior. It is not okay to rob a bank, physically abuse someone, steal, rape or murder. Yes those are extremes, but it is not okay to desert someone either. This is what he has done.
He could have communicated , gotten himself into weekly therapy, researched , instead he ran away. This is a person of weak character. I'm so glad I don't have sons, for I would hate for them to learn this behavior and sometime down the road repeat it and cause another woman this pain."
I ended up in a coversation with W and she commented how she was proud of what she has accomplished and who she has become. I validated that, because there are changes she is making in finding herself that are good. But I also stated that I disagreed with how she has chose to do so. Running away and hurting those around you including your children is not the way to improve oneself....
But having said that I also remind myself of something that has stuck with me all along this journey, which I believe to be especially true do to my Wife's abuse growing up. That their pain is greater than what we realize....
Thanks for all your posts AMB, keep busting and improving you... You are going to shine one day, I can already start to see the glow
Hi Hopeful!
I agree pain and depression are at the root. We can take that and empathize. Again, I can see how it is destroying the person we knew. I also can look at it for what it is too. Self-absorption.
I think much of this has to do with competition and jealousy too. For if one didn't compare oneself to those that surround them and expect. If one didn't envy what one perceive other's to have.
It brings me back to keeping up with the neighbors, or what now people see on Facebook. If a person of depth and character could get out of themselves and see what they could give rather than what they can take.
If they can look outside of themselves and see/know that there will always be others who have or attain more than themselves. Just as there will always be those that have less.
Life isn't a competition. Attaining a family and providing is not a competitive sport. Success isn't about material goods or power. Happiness can not be provided by goods or beings.
This is where I see a difference between selfishness and self introspection. What is it that triggers the component of self preservation at all costs? The cost of losing or purposely destroying what was created and built? What triggers the self-sabotage v.s. self-help?
great posts Ambi. you made me laugh with your little quips at the beginning of each one, lol.
Today was a busy day.
I shredded paper to make filler for the boxes. Wrapped up the banana curd and nutella, then the dehydrated liver treats for the cats in one family and dog in the other. Those animals will be happy campers! Of course the last to go in were the gurmoo
waffles I made.
I managed to get to the gym and workout. Apparently Bo Derek was there sometime this past week and the owner had photos taken with her. She has a great plastic surgeon, for she looks pretty much the same.
Tonight was a school night and so was the written final. I really wasn't going to take it until after Christmas. I just haven't been able to make myself study. Well the girls all talked me into it and so I went ahead .
I was unbelievably surprised at the results, even without studying I got a B+ ! So one down and the practical to go.
My daughter will be my model so it will be a bit of a dance to get all the schedules together.
I picked up a letter from the post office about the mortgage. Apparently the check he sent a week ago bounced.
So I to photo's from my cell of the letter. I sent them in a text, without saying anything. He has not responded, which is unusual for him. I'll let it ride for twenty four and then see where it goes.
Obviously something is preoccupying him since the lack of communication. I am trying not to get anxious or allow myself to spin. I am still pretty astonished that I was able to even pass the exam with all the stuff going on.
If anyone out there prays, a few would be appreciated.
I just checked my email :
I need support and help please !!
" When I told you before that I had not come to a final conclusion about our marriage, I was not being honest. When I moved out, my thinking was that I was unhappy and couldn't see continuing the path my life and our relationship was on. I've been struggling with my feelings about the state of our marriage. I don't like the idea of being divorced yet I didn't like the idea of staying in our relationship even more. I've met with a councilor on several occasions and with his help really tried to examine what I feel, what it means and what do I do about it.
I have come to believe that I am being unfair to you by dragging this process out and not coming to a decision about our marriage.
In talking it out, I realize that I have made a decision. I am not coming back. Maybe subconsciously I am uncomfortable actually letting those thoughts form in my mind, because actually saying it would mean hurting you more. Even now....it is infinitely easier to write this email than to call and have this conversation. Thanksgiving was bittersweet. While I enjoyed the familiar surroundings and the traditions of family etc, it felt awkward and uncomfortable.. I think I've been giving you the false hope that I would feel differently at some point. I can only imagine what the girls think.
I hate doing this during the holidays, but everything I read tells me that its relatively normal for this to happen at this time. The whole family nature of the season exacerbates everything.
So, It's time for me to face facts
I will not be coming to Hamilton for Christmas. I will have gifts for the girls (mostly cash) and something small for you. Please don't get me anything. This is hard enough for me already.
I know you want to stay in the house but I don't see how that's going to be possible. I just don't make enough money to keep things going as they are. Something has to give. Paying for d's apartment let alone tuition, Car repairs, your day to day expenses, my day to day expenses, paying for your school.... it's all killing me. Maybe if you had a full time job, it would be different. Honestly, you should be making a regular income of some kind. It's now been 7 months since I moved out. I don't feel that you have any sense of urgency.
It's time to take the next step and put in place a legal separation agreement. I will contact a lawyer and work on drawing up something. I don't want to fight about money, or make this any more difficult than it is. I will take responsibility for our debts and deposit money into your account. You need to decide what to spend it on. How much rent you can afford etc. After the new year, I expect AMD to reduce my salary somewhat and put me on a more normal Compensation plan. We can discuss what that means financially when I know more.
After the holidays, you should start looking into more affordable places for to live. I looked on Craigslist in Loudoun, if that's where you want to live, there are apartments, townhouses and even some single family homes available. It should be something that you decide and can afford with the money I will be putting into your account. xxxxxx should be able to help. We need to put the house up for sale. It will probably be a short sale. We can use xxxxxx for it if you like. If not, I will find someone else. Before I moved out, I met with a Mortgage focused lawyer about the process of a short sale. They can help negotiate with the mortg. co.and buy us time. I suggest not paying any more on the current loan. That will give us time to put some money aside for you to have for down payment on a rental.
For the time being, I'd like to communicate via email. Right now I feel like it's much easier for me to think clearly and be honest this way.
Please guys, vets, I need some guidance, and support.
Ambiv, take a deep breath. This is a lot to digest, I mean the e-mail. I’m not in the best position to give you an advice here. The only thing I can tell you is to do nothing right now. Process your feelings. Don’t panic. It seems that there is some money concern for him, so he is talking about short sale.
Communication by e-mail can you give you some advantages now. It is going to be OK.
First and foremost, I would not answer right away. I agree with Bright. Don't panic. Don't do anything right now. You have school, the holidays, etc. to think about. Don't rush anything. Just focus on the next minute, or just today - whatever it takes to get through the day.
Ambiv, my heart goes out to you. I so know the pain from hearing those words that they are not coming back. Makes you just want to throw up. But, I have to agree with MileHigh who seems to have consistently great advice. Do nothing - sit with it a while.
Know there are sooooo many others out there who are thinking of you tonight. And don't keep yourself from feeling and expressing your emotions - find a safe place where you can be alone and scream, yell, cry, curse, pound fists on a pillow - anything, just get the hurt out!! Then repeat as necessary . . I found it very helpful.
You are definitely in my prayers tonight.
((((BIG HUG)))))
Ambi - my dear, you just got the MLC script. I am so sorry, but as Job said, your h has a long way to go.
I agree, do not reply in a hurry. Do not attempt to try and reason with him, engage in discussion or any of that. Believe me, it does no good. If you do make a good and fair point he will simply change the ground of the discussion.
You will get better advice than mine, but here is my 2c.
Thank him for letting you know, say you are very sorry that he has come to this decision, but acknowledge that it is his choice.
Then go dark, really really dark. he wants out, and he gets it. That is the deal. It will be easier on you, having no contact. Trust me on that. Seeing them in full blown MLC is a world of hurt and pain.
See a lawyer, check the financial position, and protect yourself NOW. The one thing I wish I had done sooner. i kept thinking he would not screw me over.
Allow yourself to feel bad. It isn't about you, it is his problem. Right now you feel shocked, hurt and probably a bit numb.
You have your girls, and your friends. Please be very gentle and nice to yourself. Then dry your eyes, pull up the big girl panties, and make the most of the rest of your life.
Your husband might come out of it, and he might not. You can go on loving him, but he is not to be relied on for anything right now.
hugs,
I think you have gotten good advice so far and I am going to add this.
This is actually forward movement in the tunnel as much as you may not like it.
The MLC'er needs to believe that the marriage is totally destroyed to progress in REPLAY.
So yes it would be better to embrace this rather than fight it.
I am not saying to not see a lawyer.
Most definitely go see one ASAP
Protect yourself as best as you can cause the
saying that things might get worse before they get better is always an axiom.
Yes you are going to be in PAIN, that is part of his fuel so he can keep moving and thinking that ESCAPE and AVOID is going to save him.
It wont.
But he must learn this on his own
LET HIM GO.
(((((HUGS)))))
ambivalent, I am praying for you, for all of us.
I know the 'I'm not coning back speech.' I heard it as well.
your head will be spinning.
put it down for now. give yourself time to process.
Send a holding email, as I would have said in my previous life.
Something along the lines of thank you for your honesty. I will look over your email and get back to you after the holidays.
Then get your lawyer in place and work out your financials. I'm not sure what the alimony situation is for you guys but work out if you need to get a job too.
But do not rush anything other than talking to your lawyer. That's a first.
Ambivalent,
I'm so very sorry you received this MLC scripted email, but I'm not surprised. It's very common for them to send emails versus talking to you because it is easier and they don't have tohear your voice or see the pain on our faces because they don't want to hear us beg, plead or cry. Why? The guilt is too much for them and they would rather have that "space" in between us so that the guilt isn't quite so bad. I'm not making excuses for him, but the holidays tend to have many of them drop this type of bomb on their spouses.
He's given a lot of thought to the situation and it appears he has met w/someone to discuss the mortgage. He's been quite the busy man the last few weeks. This explains his distancing and lack of communication since Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving gave him a lot to the think about apparently he felt a lot of guilt playing a role that he was no longer comfortable in playing, i.e., husband, father and sibling. I'm sorry he dropped this news on you at this time. I do know how it feels because this is the exact same time mine did it as well.
I'm w/Bea on acknowledging the email, advising him that you are sorry that he's come to this decision and yes, even acknowledging that this is his choice. But say nothing more at this time.
I do hope that you took my advice several weeks ago and made an appointment w/an attorney. If you didn't, you now need to move forward and seek the advice of one, i.e., don't put this off any longer. Get your financial papers in order because you will need to know where you stand financially. Do not rely on him to be the man you once knew and will take care of you. YOU have to take care of YOU. You can't rely on him being the good guy that will be there for you and make sure you are okay.
Your daughters are going to need to tighten their belts and begin to think about their finances. Your h isn't going to continue paying a lot of their expenses for them. Why? Because he's going to be spending the money on himself and what he thinks he needs to self medicate. I'm sorry to say this, but he's got a long way to go because his replay is just now taking off. Life as they knew it is going to change, but it may not happen right away, but it will happen.
I know that this is a shock to you, especially this time of the year, but you've got to have that cry and then pull yourself together. Pick yourself up, pull up your big girl panties and as Bea has said...make the most of the rest of your life.
No one knows if he'll come of it or not, but for now...let him go mentally, emotionally and physically. It is now time for you to focus completely on YOU and your life. The holiday season won't be easy to get thru, but you will. Do only what you feel is necessary in the way of entertaining and take care of you. Pamper yourself, be kind to yourself and accept the fact that this isn't about you at all, but about him and what he needs to do to find himself. You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him.
Again, I am very sorry to see him do this now.
I am spinning. Do I acknowledge the receipt of the Dear Jane letter or not?
I wanted to take in children this past July, and interviewing families in August, but he was the one that poo poo'd it. Now I'm stuck. We have CRAPPY credit due to him not paying a mortgage before, when he got riffed, and now he wants to default! How in the heck am I going to get accepted to RENT anything with five little dogs? I have an interview today, project due tomorrow, and I don't know which way to turn !
I am OVERWHELMED and I don't want to make things worse, and I have to save the house !
I already got my daughter prepared to get a loan for school. She has decided to sell her eggs! Can you imagine, to survive and get through school without debt, she is willing to do this? She has a job.
I am going to tell her to get a loan too, so she has back up no matter what!
I just got off the phone with daughter #2. She is 21 and one of the most organized, and logical individuals I know. We discussed her moving back home. My H. gives her 1200 a month for her apt. and necces. She is going to give her room-mates January and Feb. rent no utilities, and move back home.
We are in self-preservation mode. She will start the loan process for the Fall semester, so that will be her back up finances . She can put the loan money in the bank, and if the egg donation process goes through, which it should, she will be set. I will take in one boarder as soon as possible for the extra room I have. I prefer a student from the college nearby.
My H. will not know about the move until daughter tells him he doesn't have to pay rent anymore. Once the funds for college have been finalized, he will be told he no longer has to pay that.
I will look into either taking in kids for a year...driving a school bus...whatever I can get.
Due to the dogs and credit, staying here is the most logical for the future. It will be a struggle and I hope we can do it.
I'm going to the gym. and getting my resume together asap, then off to the interview. I guess a cold shower is what will be needed to tone down the puffiness of my eyes.
Job, vets...please , I need some suggestions on the Dear Jane letter, interpretations, and possible responses.
To all of you who responded and gave me input
THANK YOU, I LOVE YOU ALL ! I am so in awe of you guys and this group. I'm going to shower and ball now
Then I'm going to put on my big girl panties. Pray, pray and pray some more, please. Thank you.
Yes, you are spinning. Sit down and breathe!
Bea posted this to you: "Thank him for letting you know, say you are very sorry that he has come to this decision, but acknowledge that it is his choice." Her suggestion is spot on and to the point. Do not add anything else to it. You are now entering in business negotiations.
You have some time to make decisions about moving, however, you will need to start looking. Your dogs are little and people may not have an issue w/them being small. Get through your interview, complete your project and then sit down and start making a list of what needs to be done. It's one step at a time.
Yes, she will need to consider getting a loan. As for the house, you can't afford to keep it. Just remember, home is where the heart is and you can find a nice place that is affordable for you to take care of. Your current home has a lot of yard work and the upkeep may be very expensive and he will not continue to pay for the upkeep.
Take care of yourself. Put your business hat on and start thinking w/your head and not your heart. I know I am sounding harsh this morning, but you've got to move out on your finances and get a lawyer. Don't sit back and think he'll change his mind because he won't. You are the only one that can take care of you right this minute.
Hi Ambiv. I strongly agree with the others, just a simple acknowledgement stating that you are sorry and you realize that it's his choice.
When H told me that he was done, he was certain this time and he was leaving, I simply said to him, "I'm sorry that you feel that way. I don't feel the same way, but I respect your decision." That was IT. Then he left. After that, I treated him as a business partner only. And tried to keep up my PMA best I could.
Best of luck. Thinking of you!
Bea posted this to you: "Thank him for letting you know, say you are very sorry that he has come to this decision, but acknowledge that it is his choice." Her suggestion is spot on and to the point.
I agree. Keep it simple. Acknowledge his choice. Leave it at that for now. You need to find your balance before discussing anything else with him.
Lots of love,
Heather
Ambivalent,
You are in panic and shock mode and it's evident you aren't focusing on what posters have posted. Since you posted what you had received, posters have been providing advice and suggestions as to what to say and do. Breathe! Take some time this afternoon and read what they have posted. You will find that many have come here to offer support and advice to you. We will help you get thru this, but you need to SLOW DOWN a bit and read the postings.
Job, the yard is not an issue, and this is the only property. 5 dogs is 5 dogs. They bark and make noise because they are terriers. Believe me, with the credit and dogs...no, getting a place will not happen. I looked into it back in the Summer.
Pulling resources with my daughter, will allow us two vehicles if anything happens to one. It gives us a pool of support and we can labor on what we need to do. It also gives us a home until I can develop new credit. It's seven years in this state.
With some time, and teamwork I think we can do it.
I'm taking the advice. I will acknowledge the e-mail in 24-72 hours. I need to get my bearings. I need to interview more attorneys not just the one. I need to get a grip
Hi Ambi!
I just wanted you to know I read the last two pages of postings. I'm so sorry. It is so painful at the holidays for such an email from H.
You've got lots of great advice and support. You're going to pull yourself together and acknowledge the email. You will get through this.
Just wanted you to know -- we don't know how/when your H will end his MLC. But I did hear the same things from my H:
I'm done
I'm never coming back
Sell the house
Find a place to live
Get a job -- you don't seem in a hurry
And the emotional things he said too.
You have to move on like it is over for now...treat it/him like a business transaction, but the door will be open a teeny bit if he wants to come back.
Do protect yourself, your children, your interests.
You're on my heart today,
Many hugs,
rH
Ambi,
I'm new here but wanted to tell you I would give you the biggest hug right now if I could. My heart hurts when I see this happening even for others now. I am going through what you are now. H left in Feb. He's had no contact with me or our D11 except for 2 visits with her and then I got served papers the week before Thanksgiving.
Please find out what you are entitled to. Unfortunately in my state, all 4 attorneys I met with said it's too bad I wasn't a stay at home mom all these years because as it stands I won't get any maintenance. Find out everything and good luck.
Also H maintained for the entire separation that he would pay for D11 private school tuition and fees but when papers were sent he refused. A warning....they seem to change their attitude quickly so things he may be agreeing to now may change.....I'm only learning this as I go.
I'm in the same situation as you are.
One thing to also consider with the house...
annual taxes, insurance, and the costs of maintenance....
I did not want to have to look at all the financial stuff.I did not want to believe h could treat me so, but it has to become business
I know you like to read and research.
so much to process right now...
Amb....
I think that you have to look at this now, with a different set of lenses....
Try to stop thinking about this in terms of saving a marriage, and think about it in terms of , there may be a new beginning in the future...
So for now, Lawyer up, and treat this as the business decision that it is....
I would take the time to get as many consultations as you can. And make sure that you consult with the biggest, baddest Divorce layer within 50 miles.
Now you may not be able to afford them, but at least if you consult, your spouse cannot use them due to a conflict of interest....
For now, settle in, and do not let this take your focus of a wonderful, magical Holiday season....
Like I said yesterday on UR's thread....
These things happen around this time of the year....
The MLCer feels close, so they "fuel away" from the LBS...
Nothing he told you in that e-mail was new information. There was nothing that hasn't been said before....
So maybe don't treat it as new information...
Who is he trying to "convince"
You ???
or Himself ???
Relax, and enjoy the day. Maybe do something special for yourself today....
Hi Ambiv...
all I have to offer is ((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))
I really like the way Bea wrote the response...short and to the point. I agree with the others too.
more (((((((((hugs)))))))))))) ((((((hugs)))))))
Magic
Hi Ambiv,
did you see my message to you on your FB post, kinda along the same lines as people here. Thought of you last night.
I was here with H just a few months ago, you're going to be OK, send him the short email and then nothing until you've met with a L and gotten through your projects etc. Glad your D is coming home, it'll pool money and it's nice to have someone else in the house. Cadet made an interesting point about needing to do this to further REPLAY (hadn't heard that one yet) so it gives you and I something to think about.
BIG HUGS
wr
I'm so sorry Ambi. I have nothing to add but wanted to let you know I'm here for you.
{{{HUGS}}} my friend.
Ambivalent,
I know you are reeling and I do understand the feeling of being smacked again w/this latest text message. Take the time to find your balance and even if it means that you don't seek out legal advice until after the holidays, then so be it.
When the holidays are over, sit down and make a list of your expenses on a weekly/monthly basis. It sounds like he's not planning to pay the mortgage and would like to let the house go. May I ask you a question? Is the mortgage in both names or just his?
You will need to ask the lawyer about spousal support until you find a permanent position. What your h is going to provide to you may not be the proper amount in your state. You could very well get more or less...this will be something only you can visit w/the lawyer. If you can receive more, then go for it. If it's less, then I think I would leave it alone.
Are the credit cards joint or separate? If they are joint, you will need to ensure that your name is taken off of them and vice versa. Get your own cards to start establishing credit all on your own once again.
I do believe that you and your daughters can make this work...but all of you will need to put your heads together and work as a team. Your daughters will need to understand that Daddy Warbucks isn't going to be very forthcoming w/helping out w/the finances in the future.
Ambivalent, you are going to be okay. You are strong and very independent. You are creative and I know that you will find a way to make this work.
Get thru the holidays and then focus on what you need to do to ensure your financial situation. Come here to vent...we are here and we will try to help you any way that we can.
Mostly importantly, please take care of yourself.
Job has brought up a good point, that if you have any joint credit cards or loans/Line of Credit, get your name taken off RIGHT away. That is the very first thing my lawyer told me. We had a joint line of credit. I was worried he would rack up debt on it with his "new" house payments and that I would be liable for this debt.
I have no advice....just sympathy...and HUGS.
I'm thinking of you today.
And, know this....you ARE going to be OK! Take care of yourself...
Wow, a gal goes on an interview and meets with daughter and look at you all! THANK YOU !
I will try and address as much as I can. I may not be succinct but I will try.
I'm going to wait on any response to H. until after the meeting with Attorney. She isn't a free consult. I will try and write a check and deposit it into my checking acct. That way, when I give the attorney a payment, it will be from my acct.
My daughter wants to stay where she is. She said she'll take another job and help me out. I told her to stay honest with me , speak up, and I'm treating her like the beautiful adult she is. I'm so proud of her, she is such support and loves with all her heart.
She is returning Christmas gifts, and preparing herself for any outcome this will bring. I have not bad mouthed my husband , but she knows that he is in FULL BLOWN. That he is not dependable, and could change his mind at ANY moment.
She sees the behavior, where it's going and I have suggested she read up on MLC. I told her I believe in my vows, and still love him but I have to go into protection mode. I am sharing what I can and will value her input and logic.
I will heed as much advice as possible on everything said. Going to as many good atty's may not work, for I don't have the money to cover their consult fee's. But I hear ya.
I'm estranged from my parent's but I will reach out to my Father first. It won't hurt as much if he says no. I'm more detached.
My mother and I have not had a relationship to speak of for over 19 years. She always reaches out, and I usually decline. To go to her for anything is torture.
Think un-medicated OCD, retaliates, and hounds you to the end of the earth for anything borrowed.
The only thing I did was to leave a message to ask her for an attorney. IF she returns the call, I will ask how she raised the money to have an atty. when she went through this. If she offers money, it will be her call.
I have a snow blower that is just sitting under a tarp. It is basically brand new, and used only about 3 or four times. I don't know if I can sell it yet. Marital property, BUT he did leave it behind when he left me behind!
Technically he has deserted. In my state, that is not good. I don't know if they give him credit for continuing to make the payments that he did, but default is a big deal.
Guys this is not looking good. I completely expect him to go off the tracks once the attorney is involved. I may not have enough time to shop around, with the mortgage sit. looming.
He is in full blown panic too. IRS back taxes, college tuition and room and board. My last payment at school. I cannot graduate until that is completed.
I mailed two boxes out to his siblings. I cannot afford to mail the last one out. It is going to CA and would cost a fortune. I will mail the box for the kids. It is smaller. I may put a card in it to his sister, letting her know I had packaged up the gift and could not afford to do it now. I'll prob. just say we are struggling since his last job lost and to please forgive us.
I'm not going to be the bad guy , he can do that.
We do not have any joint credit cards. I have documented through journaling and have the stuff I found. I have found some paperwork, and will copy them. Not going to have an atty. charge for what I can do. I have the finances he had printed up for me to look over back in May. It details what he thinks the expenses are. I have some tax docs, and I believe his first pay stub from this job. I have some documents that have come here from his new job.
This could get ugly VERY fast, and I'm in a bad situation. I should have listened to my gut back in July. I had wanted to take in kids and boarders then. He poo poo'd the kids.
If I had done what I thought I should have, I would at least have an income.
Water under now.
I can't get any renter/boarders until I know the mortgage is back up and going.
Why do I still love this man?
How does ANY person trust after this ?
I can not see him forgiving himself of this down the road.
For now , even though he is flowery ,he has NO clue what this is doing . He has no idea how this affects a woman, their children, or the chaos and havoc he has sewn.
He is still feeling guilty, hence the 21st c. Dear Jane letter. I cried a lot last night, had bursts today, and will try to get as much as I can out before the meeting tomorrow.
Unfortunately it is right before school. Not the best timing but it was what I could get.
If I missed anything, please forgive me. I'm dancing as fast as I can.
I'm all ears, am listening and encourage you to please pray. Your posts me a tremendous amount to this old gal. I am tearing up as I write this, for you guys are going to make the difference in whether I crash or rise.
I'm trying to hang in there and appreciate everything you have said to me. I wish we were in a live support group so we could touch each other through hugs. I am a bit isolated by choice, due to the stand I'm taking.
My friends don't understand, and I'm so exhausted I can't explain .
I can only imagine how Christ felt upon the cross when he felt forsaken by his Father.
Now I'm going to force myself to eat something .
Oh have any of you vets seen defaulting or attempts to default? Just wondering.
And Chasing, Reaching THANK YOU , I need to hear this.
Reaching, what were YOUR responses to the list you shared?
Everybody else, please don't be slighted I am reading and re-reading. Job , Mach, I appreciate your wisdom and your time.
You don't have to do this, it is truly a anonymous volunteer job, a gift you keep giving. This is the best Christmas present and it's lasting longer than Chanukah! I used to be envious of my best friend J. Jerome around this time , for the eight days.
How simple life was once. How very different things are today.
Reaching, what were YOUR responses to the list you shared
It wasn't fancy, Ambiv. I heard these things many times.
I'm done
I'm never coming back
to these I just listened
Sell the house
I discussed this practically on more then one occasion. Pros and cons. We even talked about this in front of a L.
Find a place to live
Our kids are still living at home so I focused on the changes for them.
Get a job -- you don't seem in a hurry
He made me feel lazy. I went to school too. But I was so afraid. I showed him on paper what the expenses were and what I needed.
And the emotional things he said too.
mostly listened
This was a terrible time for him too. He didn't want to hurt his family. He was so confused. He had settled on a plan of action that he thought would make him happy (D). He had a lot more crisis to go through (not length of time but intensity) before he could accept that coming back was better than leaving.
This is an awful time for you, Ambiv. You've got so much good advice here tho. Cling to it. Do it.
My sitch was different. I didn't have money to pay for a L either. But I went to two and chose one and told H that if he wanted a D he would pay for it. So he did.
"25" posted a long time ago that some men hafta feel the squeeze in their wallets before they will come back to reality.
Try to follow the great advice here with these posters on the forum. Don't feel like YOU hafta process the D right here, right now. Don't let him do that to you.
Don't feel like YOU hafta process the D right here, right now. Don't let him do that to you.
Could you please elaborate?
Job,
The one I spoke with will push for divorce due to abandonment, and that I am not on a joint account or have cc's.
She said if she doesn't "make him feel the pressure" he will drag this out.
I am confused here...is there a difference between her creating pressure, and me creating pressure? The whole " pressure is not good for them... I do understand the difference between natural consequences and logical consequences.
She says if she doesn't sue, then I won't get what I am supposed to.
Okay now, this is because of mortgage. I am trying to hear what everyone is saying.
Don't respond with too much, keep it business, here is a dilemma that is immediately facing me.
On one hand , he wrote in the past to check with a lawyer. He knows that I have no funds, so the one I am going to see at three wants up300+ dollars just for consult.
Also, I said I have no money and explained the situation. She said to make it count...well there are many accts. One he uses for mortg. , this one, the ones he has with daughters...
Now my fear is once that is done, he may or may not retaliate and not put money into the acct. that he allows me to sign his name under.
She also wants 5,000. to retain and proceed. Because of the mortgage, I'm in a bind. He mentioned the mortgage atty. " buying time ".
Yes, I have verbal consent and a pattern of history for this consent.
Also, when it comes to just the Christmas side of this, him saying he's going to give money to our daughters, this leaves me without the ability to purchase something for them. Everything in the past was from us both.
I would like to address this and be part of this while being civil and respectful.
I am at a juncture, and do not want to screw this up.
I have not acted nor responded yet to anything. But realize this can be a pivotal moment.
I can see in his e-mail, that he is thinking aloud to himself. That he cannot see options nor his contradictions. I do see the "script". I see that he feels like he has no other choices and because of this he has to "go to the next level" It seems to be causing him angst. In the past I have shown him other options, and that he does allow me to "influence" him. The last example was that we managed to go to daughter's parent's day event, we've been out together and lived...so he came to Thanksgiving.
He is fighting his feelings and his feelings for me...
I am trying to "trust the process". I also know that the money issues are due to not facing reality and him wanting to please , in the past.
Many times he thought he was " making me happy ". So he didn't want to deny, also I believe because he made choices for himself, he felt the need to be fair with the pleasing.
This has gotten him into a huge monetary mess. I know his judgment is WAAAY off. I tend to have the right gut instinct. I know the cost of this mortg. and the upkeep (costs of utilities and maintenance) is high.
I also believe if this house goes, I'm stuck in a rental and at the mercy of landlords and have no opportunity to leave my daughters any possible inheritance.
This house will appreciate in the thirty years (or more) I have left. This area always does.
There is a strong part of me that says DO NOT LET IT GO. It has the possibility to accrue, I have fruits to can and earn at least some Christmas money in the future years. I can take in boarders and I have one room that I can set up my own side business in Esthetics.
The other side says it will be a ton of work, and I don't have an income to date, what if something happens and I can not fix it? Such as roof, or another limb falls on the house. He loses his job and finances abruptly stop. He has a breakdown and stops functioning ( no history ) but a human possibility.
I'm 53...now don't get me wrong my grandmother (one of them) lived to 110 years!
I have another part that screams...stop the default and buy more time on this.
So meeting and 300 dollars ...????? I am trying to heed, and step carefully
the L thing gets expensive even in amicable situations.
Don't want to add , but it does-
I told h back in November that I had kids and school to focus on. That D was not just signing a piece of paper. It takes a lot of time and energy.
I too have no money. The first thing I did, got a cc in just my name.
the L fees will come out of our joint....meaning less for me.
uck, all the way around.
Ambivalent,
The lawyer is correct in the fact that he may very well drag this out for a long time. Many of them do that...my xh did and it cost me quite a bundle of money in legal fees.
Yes, he has not only abandoned you, but the home as well. A home is anywhere you live and trying to keep a home up by yourself w/little or no funding can be very frustrating and expensive. No one can predict when a water pipe may burst, a heating/ac problem may arise or the roof may leak. You and only you can determine if you can put a nest egg away for these types of expenses.
Now about your daughters' inheritance. You need to think of the here and now. What happens after you have crossed over to the other side will be their concern. You have to figure out how you want to live now. I know you want to leave your daughters' something after you are long gone, but that may not happen and if it does, I'm all for it...but you are in a financial bind right now and you have to think of yourself. Your daughters' are not living at home and are on their own. You are there w/your little pups. The decision must be made wisely and not just because you want to stay there, but look at it from a financial standpoint. Is it worth it? Would it be better to relocate to an area that has more opportunities for you in the line of work? Would it be better to find a place that is less expensive? Can I afford a new place? How much income do I need to maintain my current home? Keep in mind, spousal support may not get you to where you need to be for the mortgage, property taxes and upkeep.
The initial fee that the lawyer is charging is average. Let me share this w/you. When my xh walked, he wanted a legal separation put in place. I arranged that and at the end of the day spent $8,000 on a legal separation that was never signed because my xh dragged his feet for almost three years. After attempting to get a separation in place for over a year and half I advised my lawyer to stop all actions and wait to see what he would do. He finally filed for a divorce, but by that time I had spent out of my own pocket well over $14,000. This is what the lawyer was trying to tell you....they can drag the proceedings out, costing you thousands of dollars, and at the end of the day, both lose so much in the way of money and respect for each other.
As for buying time w/the mortgage, I don't encourage people to play around w/mortgages. If he stops paying the mortgage this month, then you are going to need to come up w/the money in order to keep it from going into foreclosure at some point. I think this is something you need to discuss w/the lawyer today and see what she has to say about it.
You need to accept that his feelings right now are his and that nothing you say or do will change them. I pointed out to you in a post on December 3rd that I saw the signs of him getting ready to go into full replay. When they are like this, i.e., dividing up of property, accounts and him advising you of things, then he has made up his mind that he doesn't want to be married to you and wants his freedom to do whatever. I'm not saying this to hurt you, but stating the obvious and how he feels. Your h has done a lot of thinking and apparently has been in contact w/lawyers discussing the options of ending the marriage and doing it in a wise manner. Your h has done his homework and he's been thinking about this for a while. What I do see is that he does feel guilty about leaving you in a bind and the fact that he's not been able to set things up better financially for you, but for now, they are his feelings to own. At least he's not been crazy enough to just leave you in a lurch w/all of the bills and you have to figure out everything. I will give him that brownie point. Mine walked away and dropped everything in my lap in the way of expenses, etc.
In my opinion, you need to file because you need spousal support now. You can't rely on him continuing to do so w/o some type of agreement in place. The agreement may need to have a statement in there that states he will pay spousal support until you finish school and have a full time permanent position. Please note, generally once you are working, spousal support will cease. Just food for thought.
You do need to acknowledge his email and when you do, do not share anything that you have discussed w/your lawyer. That information is to remain between the two of you. As for the $5,000 retainer fee, you may need to ask your parents for the money w/the understanding that you will pay them back. I don't think your h will cover this, but you can also put it out there that since he wants a divorce, he will pay all fees associated w/a divorce. The next question is...where is he filing? Is he filing in MD? If so, then your lawyer will need to be familiar w/MD laws and if he files in MD and you have to go to court, then there will additional fees associated w/travel time to court. Just things to think about asking. Keep in mind, if you file, you will be filing in VA and on your own home turf and he would be the one that would have to pay fees associated w/travel costs if the lawyer is in MD.
As for the gifts to your daughters, when you acknowledge his email ask him if he will include you in those gifts. In his mind, he's already separated from you completely and may not even have thought about including you in the gift giving process.
Ambivalent, I'm truly sorry you are having to face this. I traveled the road you are on many years ago at this exact same time of the year. Please keep in mind that I don't advocate divorce. However, the only thing that I would have changed is that I would have filed early on and if something had changed later on down the road, I would have been able to stop the divorce. A divorce is nothing more than a piece of paper and if God has a plan for you and your h to reconcile, it will happen when he sees it is the right time. Just remember, dragging out a divorce is very, very expensive and even though you don't want it, he does.
When you are dealing w/divorce, you have to leave your heart and feelings at the door and wear your business hat. You have to take care of you and your financial well being, as the mlcer does not worry too much about that when they are in the midst of a full blown replay. Nothing against your h, but you need to think of what you need to do in order to survive and live from day to day.
If you have any questions about how I handled my situation, I'll be glad to answer them.
Mach, I noticed this as well. It is as if he is thinking aloud,, he does that when he writes. I'm glad I was not the only one to see this.
Also, Thank you for coming , I appreciate your wisdom.
Okay Job, I'm listening...
In the state where I am, because we've been together 33 years, alimony is based on years, lifestyle, whether I stayed at home, my age...His attorney did let him know back in March, that he would be paying a hefty amount. I don't want to post it. What is truly odd, any good attorney would tell him NOT to leave the house! So , he may or may not have actually gone to someone, either way...he has been battling this within for awhile.
I'm in self-preservation mode.
Prior to reading you and all that you wrote, I wrote a letter.
I am NOT sending it, but it released some feelings and helped me to cope...
The only part I may send is in italics. ===============================================================
I hear what you are saying, there are other choices and options but I accept the choice you've made.
I have come to a different choice.
A choice was made by my parent's and they regret it . A choice was made by your father, and he never found happiness with external changes. His inner uneasiness was brought with him to every relationship he embarked upon, thus culminating in multiple divorces.
Because of their choices and poor decisions, children were battered, bruised , and forever scarred. No matter the age, it is detrimental and traumatizing.
I will not participate in passing down more harm. I will not participate in a decision made in temporary confusion, physical and emotional duress, while hormonal and chemical changes are occurring in one's body.
Love, respect, and concept of commitment, are all easy when things are going well, it is a no brainer.
It is when it is in poorer, sickness, bad times and for worse, that counts . Real commitment is difficult, and challenging.
I'm not a quitter and I believe in us. I have proven this and will stand strong in my belief.
I'm not willing to let the house go at this moment. It is not a good choice, for us, for me, for our children, and for the future. You are looking out for you. Because of this I will protect myself and the possibility of saving this home, a strong possibility of equity in the distant future, and something with either retire with or bequeath to our children.
I am not clouded by confusion and the fear of temporary emotions. I'm not afraid to dig in and work hard. I am not willing to make a mistake that later may be the biggest regret of my life. I am not afraid to face my fears and my temporary emotions.
I am not afraid to face my uncertainty, will not run away , my fortitude is strong. I have embraced working on my challenges within and have not shied from change.
Change can be good or bad. If it causes destruction, without rebuilding on a better foundation, it is bad. If it causes positive growth and acceptance, it is good. If it is just external it will be fleeting and shallow. If it is introspective and sharing, it is good. I choose good change.
Whether you see "urgency" or not is not the issue or a reality. You should understand, since you have gone through 9 months and 6 months of seeking and searching.
Your issues are within yourself what you experienced in your family, the way others treated you, the way you internalized how you were perceived and the identity you developed from that. Choices you made then have you questioning and confused, possibly even seeking to be someone new, better, different...
It is not about me or the imperfect marriage we've had. Even if I was the perfect wife/mother, you would still be going through what you are going through.
This is your choice. I have accepted this .
I have stuck to my commitment to finish school, have interviewed, and continue. I have a clear focus on saving our home.
Soon I will embark on a full time career. It is in its infancy, and I will embrace the challenges of my decisions.
Consequences happen, I will be proud to hold my head up and be a good example to our daughters.
I will be proud to show them that when it was tough, difficult, seemingly hopeless, that I persevere. I will not teach them hate, but unconditional love. Love and compassion . I will teach them that family is far more important than things and
The school needs it's payment, you can call and complete that commitment. I have passed one exam, one to go. Without the final payment I will not graduate and can not take the state boards. The choice is yours.
As for Christmas, I do not believe giving cash is a good idea. Especially at this moment. I came to you earlier to brainstorm on what to do. I was told there was no money. You are now saying there is. Because of your statement to me, I have prepared boxes for your siblings and made gifts for their families. Our own daughters I have not shopped for.
I know abcde needs a bra from the shop in pppppp. I know fghijk
wants a scale . I have nothing to give them to date...I believe you should rethink giving them cash, so that there is something under a tree for them. I have your brother's present from my earlier planning.
The choice to do this at this time was yours.
A.
Hi Ambi!
Disregard what I said. I just meant if you could delay a couple of weeks and have a decent Christmas and New Years and work on this D in January.
You and I are the same age and are SAHM's but there are some important differences in our sitches. I didn't have the $ crisis. We have no mortgage, car bills or anything else but we had money in the bank.
Cost of living is low here and L's consultations were free
After my H's very low ball offer of spousal support, I did file and say what I needed and he later agreed to it. I could've stayed in our home and not gotten a job and homeschooled and had money left over. And I have two boys that can fix things.
You have a crisis impending. Job has given a very reasonable and well thought out post. I don't want to confuse the issue just b/c things worked out for me. My h had already been in replay for at least a year and a half.
I'll just offer hugs and no more advice.
We lived in loudoun county 10 years ago before moving here and our house appreciated almost $50K in two years. But I'm sure the market is different now.
I agree with job about worrying about yourself first and inheritance later. It's just another casualty of D. I'm so sorry for this terrible heartache
Hugs,
rH
Thanks Reaching, yeah under in mortg. , owes back taxes, daughters apt. and college, other daughter always asking for money, I'm the "easy one to get rid of" so he thinks, wants to spend and spend some more.
What I don't get is that I become another "bill" or debt.
It may be better to downsize, and he needs to be held accountable and help with the costs of move, packing, all the money upfront on leasing, so I can get in. It may be better to do it while I don't have a job yet. That way I have time to get things sorted out.
I'll find out.
He wants to alleviate guilt and the only way he sees is by doing things fast and setting me up.
It's going to cost him money to get this going too, and to think he thinks this is going to be a positive change. What a choice...but perhaps I should really look at this.
He could spiral farther down and I go get sucked into it. I will be getting angry soon. For once I get through pain, I get angry at the cost of all this.
Does anyone in the D.C. Metro area need a brand new snow-blower?
Advertise the snow blower on craig's list or eBay. Do 3x5 cards and place them on the bulletin boards in the stores around you. You'll sell it very quickly now that we've some flakes recently.
If you are going to acknowledge his email, keep it very simple and to the point. He's not up to reading huge amounts of words. He doesn't care how you feel right now and quite frankly, all he is looking at is dumping all responsibility, the sooner the better.
As for being responsible for packing, moving, etc....I hope he does help out w/that...but they don't generally do. It's like getting blood from a turnip when it comes to money.
You need to find out which state he's planning to file in.
Good luck this afternoon. Again, if you have any questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them for you. Also, a word of caution, please be very careful what you post on here concerning negotiations, etc. This board may have members log in to post, but anyone can come here and read our postings. Will they know who you are? Some will figure it out if they know your situation. Not saying it will happen to you, but we've had others have this happen and they left the board for a bit and came back w/new poster names and kept their info very brief.
Ambivalent, good luck this afternoon. Ask questions and write down everything you can.
Ambiv, I don’t really have anything to add here. You are getting very good advice from people who went through this.
I just wanted to comment on rH’s post: “"25" posted a long time ago that some men hafta feel the squeeze in their wallets before they will come back to reality.” – my H has been felling this squeeze for some time now, but it doesn’t look like he is coming back into reality. He hasn’t filed yet, but I think it is because he doesn’t want to be involved in litigation process. He is trying to avoid the confrontation (his words.)
I do agree with job, that it looks like you H is entering the full replay, and he thinks that by getting rid of his old life is going to make him happy. I’m so sorry that it is happening to you. You seem to be in good spirit though, trying to handle it like a business transaction. Good for you. Don’t lose this perspective.
Bright,
IMO, those that wake up when the wallet is being squeezed are those very close to landing back into reality. Those that are in the early stages of replay or full blown replay, don't really care about the money, i.e., just as long as they get more than their share. LOL! It's the old "me, me, me and more me" song.
That's why it's very important to strike as early as possible and get your ducks in a row about your finances, bills, etc. It's important that none of those items are delinquent because it's too difficult trying to back paddle and pay them w/late fees, etc.
Yes, we are all shocked and stunned at the beginning, but we have to try to find our wits about ourselves and take care of what needs to be done...financial protection. Yes, we can continue down the yellow brick road while doing this and yes, we can also be very angry about all of the cr@p we go through to get to the other side. In fact, anger will help to spur someone on if they are stuck in denial or the bargaining stages (these are the stages whereby we are more focused on getting them back than on our financial situations).
Heed the wonderful advice that Golf Mom posted and I'll continue to hammer home the importance of getting finances in order quickly rather than drag your feet about it.
Thanks you guys.
I'm still a bit tender, but today was so busy the crying wasn't allowed to take control.
Today was a very stressful day. I am estranged from my parents. I don't want to go into detail, but it was a choice I made many years ago, for my psychological health.
I e-mailed my parents. It was the hardest thing for me to do. I have never asked them for anything, that way I couldn't be manipulated, or guilted into a compliance.
My father cheated on my mother and my mother had him leave. She rues that to this day. My father was a practicing attorney for many years. He can be a bast-rd. He will agree.
I cried my heart out last night to my mom, I did not ask her for a dime, if she offered that would be her call. She did not, but she did call my father, who lives in Mississippi. Love writing that state, I can still here the sing song way we learned to spell it!
Anyway, he called this morning. I was overwhelmed with the project, my computers were BOTH acting up and he was taking time away from something I had to get done.
I did something I've never done with him. I let him in after thirty years of only one contact. I balled my eyes out , and listened to him express his concern for me. It was genuine. He is not the same man that he was when I was developing from a child to a teen, to a woman.
What they say about men becoming more sensitive in older age is true. He said something he would NEVER would have said back then.
" I wish I were there so you could place your head on my shoulder and comfort you." Just writing this brings me to tears. I never felt compassion from him ever, nor was he ever a daddy. He was a loving caring man on the phone today, he is 85 years old. My mother had shared my circumstances and he called.
He counseled me, offered me a sum of money, and he listened . When all was said and done, he wired money into my account by five today and called back to say he doubled it. To take one hundred dollars of the money and do something nice for myself.
I'm still shocked , and a bit a peace.
I can give my daughters some small gifts, and I have a bit of comfort knowing it is in the bank. I apologized for having to take the money and he was saddened that I felt I needed to apologize. He has come out of his tunnel. Never thought he would.
I have carried pain from my childhood for many years. I forgave my parents many years ago in my heart. And I proceeded with life to stay healthy.
He too told me to check into legal aide in our state. I postponed todays meeting 'til next Friday. I was behind on the project. My computers were acting up and even my cell decided not to cooperate with sending photos via e-mail.
I had to drive to my daughter's place, have her format from what I had written on paper. Then she uploaded the info onto a stick drive. I was an hour and a half late to school, and had to wait forty five minutes to print the information out .
It was a very tough day. Too many emotions and keeping focused was brutal. I was a mess.
As for your state Job, he has to be a resident to file. Which means it has to be six months. He has only been there four. I believe he wants to get out of that state, because he would get killed in taxes. Your state just passed a law on anyone making 100k or more.
So if he files in that state, it would be very unlikely. It would cost him even more money.
My gal wants to file immediately , to beat him to it, and to get retro. a.
I know everyone says to protect myself, look out for me. I will do it.
I have to admit that I feel dirty. It is a horrible feeling to love someone and to have been so intimate and then prepare to conspire behind their backs. Anyway one looks at it , it IS what is done.
I feel tainted, and unclean. I too , don't want to fight about anything, yet I know he is not in the state of mind to reason. He has made so many poor choices and ones that I strongly am at odds about.
I do feel better about doing this after Christmas, it just wouldn't set right with me.
On another note, I did follow up on the first job interview yet again. The gal was pleased and expressed that follow up was so appreciated! It was between me and another gal.
She made tentative plans to have me come in for training the week after Christmas. I will be e-mailed to solidify. She mentioned that my money expectations have never been paid for that position before, and she was going to bat for me on that. I suggested she sell me as a mature , reliable/dependent individual who has experience under her belt and I'm worth it!
She enthusiastically agreed. Funny, I'm already selling myself with a bit more fortitude.
This I the job where I would be showering at three in the morning and leaving by four to get there to open by five! Good God what am I thinking? I also made sure she knew that I would need time off for my boards and that I wanted to be considered for the spa esthetician position at the club.
She made a point to let me know absolutely and that they have two rooms free and they like to stay booked! Being at the front desk gives me an advantage there. So it may end up being two part time jobs at one location!
Bad news about health insurance though. Once divorced I cannot be on his policy. The LAST thing I need to worry about is this Obamacare law. It absolutely devastates me on so many levels. The fact that I'm pretty healthy and to be forced into a contract to purchase something that has to be deemed acceptable from my Federal Government just about kills me. It is wrong and it is not governing by the people but over the people.
I would rather go a few years and bank that money for a nest egg, rather than pay for something other than catastrophic insurance.
This just brings me down.
Ambiv, I’ve just signed up for a new health plan, because my old one was not compliant with the new law. I had an individual insurance policy before because I’m self-employed. My new plan will cost me less for about the same coverage, plus I get free preventative services, which I didn’t have before. I will have the same doctors. I’m not eligible for a subsidy, because of my income. There are plans for catastrophic insurance, just like there were before, from the same insurance companies. They just cost less, at least in my state. Right now is open enrolment period, until March 31, I think. The application took me about 10 min to fill. There were no health related questions.
You can also purchase a temporary insurance, which is truly just catastrophic insurance. It is even cheaper.
I'm very glad that you reached out to your parents. Your father's words meant a lot to you and he didn't hesitate to wire you the money. He knows exactly what you are going through and even though you've not had much, if any contact w/him over the years, you are still his little girl. Lean on him when you need to. He's your father and the same would apply to your mother. She also knows what you are going through.
I agree w/your lawyer, file now and seeking retro alimony. Why would you feel dirty about that? After all, look at what he's been doing to you and you only just discovered in the last few weeks some of the things that he's been doing. For one thing, I do not think for one minute that he forgot about those things in his car. In his passive way, he knew you'd most likely use his car and he left those items in there for you to find. He didn't care. When you didn't confront him about them, he began to feel very uneasy about coming around you and Thanksgiving put the toping on his cake of guilt and he had to finally tell you how he felts. No, you should not ever feel dirty. You are an upstanding woman who loves deeply and cares about everyone.
I think it's good that you have tentative plans to go in and try out the new place of employment. It will give you something else to think about and to see if this is really what you want right now. About the hours, you'll get use to them and you may just find that you enjoy going in early and having time to do something else later in the day while others are still working away.
I'm also glad to read that you've postponed your meeting w/your lawyer. This will give you time to settle down and put your thoughts on paper so that you will have talking points. Jot down your questions to ask her. She's use to people being emotional, but the bottom line is to get what is rightfully yours. If you don't agree on something she suggests, tell her. After all, you are paying her to do a job for you.
As for health insurance, now is a good time to begin shopping around to see what's available. Don't put off getting health insurance. You may be healthy at this time, but you don't know what tomorrow will bring. The stress of what you are and will continue to go through for a long time can do all sorts of things to the body and mind. Health insurance is a number one priority in my books.
Ambivalent, no matter how dark the cloud looks now, there is a silver lining in it and some of that lining has been exposed to you in just a few short hours. You are going to be okay. You just have to get thru the difficult period of accepting that the old marriage is over and that there are certain things that have to be done, you'll find some of the stress will be removed.
Again, I'm very glad you reached out to your parents. Don't be afraid to do so again.
Thank you BF.
Yesterday was so stressful . In the middle of trying to complete the project, both computers decided to act up. One would not connect to the internet, and the other 's keypad was wigging out. So I had to drive to my daughter's who is a half hour away, have her enter the project on her laptop, then transfer it to a stick.
Driving to school in the middle of rush in this area is a NIGHTMARE!
After that I was an hour and a half late to school. The person there was supposed to print out my project and she had me wait another 50 minutes! Needless to say I was calling everyone to let them know prior to, and during. My class was itching to leave school. Nobody had a clue what my week has been like, and to be honest they're young and could care less.
I slept 'til my usual four a.m. and then tried for the last hours.
Brother in law got the email and responded with other than the game, what can I bring? HE is stepping up and will be here!
I don't know if H. made a point to tell him to go or not. Most likely he did. I don't care, all I know is it will be nice for our daughter's and it will have a bit of a family feel.
My youngest daughter is taking note that H. has decided to think only of himself. He also just told her that the fee to get her towed car back was her Christmas gift.
I'm glad I warned her of the upcoming money behavior, so she too will be prepared.
She told me last night that because of my H's income, and nobody to co-sign, getting a loan is not possible. She is a dependent on his taxes. I told her the sooner she was independent the better. She can then be assessed on her lack of income, and wonderful character references . She needs to develop credit and fast. She has already looked into taking a second part time position.
This is from the one who is in school full time, a Chem. major and working on two minors as well. She is working part time and she was the treasurer for her sorority. She was responsible for thousands of dollars. THAT was an awesome responsibility and should have her in good steed.
She wants to stay where she is , and I told her that was her choice and I support her. If she gets the lab job in the Western part of the juxtaposed state, I'll see her quite a bit. She may rethink things by then, gas would be unbelievable.
She will come out Sun. night and D. #1 will follow probably the Christmas Eve. She is always a trial and I will get to DB practice with her.
God has seen fit to challenge me with all that is going on. I often ask Him , why?
I looked into legal aide this morn, and filled out the app. Not a very good process, for it doesn't give one the choices needed and I have to be concerned with pro-bono work. I will have to do more research.
I'm going to try to get to the storage facility to dig for tax records, and other docs. If I don't there is tomorrow. But believe I should do it today.
I am going to force myself to go to the dance tonight. It is hard , for I feel like a wounded bird at times. I don't want to give off the aura of a needy person.
I don't know how those who go through this ever reconcile.
I am not looking forward to giving the evidence of the V. , receipts, etc. I feel it is blindsiding him. I don't think he was preparing to hurt me, and this will bring out a different person. Or maybe he may feel even more guilt, if I am lucky enough.
What I'm uncomfortable with are the e-mail exchanges. His attorney WILL tell him not to do it any longer. IF they are good. Then there goes any communication.
Do people actually get this far and further and then stop?
Job, at one point with the first BD, husband said " I could have everything" over the Summer he wanted to keep him in the loop about the snow blower and lawn mower.
If I sell the sno-blower before Christmas, I have a great chance. Now he did sell our Tiger mower to pay for the maintenance of the yard before he left. And didn't consult me, so am I okay with selling the sno-blower?
Or anything else for that matter?
Why would you feel dirty about that? After all, look at what he's been doing to you and you only just discovered in the last few weeks some of the things that he's been doing
It comes from feeling like I am unfaithful. One doesn't speak badly of their spouse, it is just so unseemly. Writing here is different, because we aren't able to gossip, or make something public. It isn't honoring what we had. It is difficult to put my finger on it. I just do.
If you knew my husband's habits and how much of a car/house slob he is, you wouldn't say this. He dumps things all over the place, just like my oldest daughter. I would never describe him as organized, or even sloppy. I'm sure this is another reason the finances are like this.
I was posting during your post time, so I did not mean to dismiss the post.
Ambivalent,
Yes, there are some that go right up to the time of signing the divorce and call it off and attempt to date and reconcile. Some divorce and years later get back together.
Now, about his statement that you can have everything...that was the guilt talking. Right now, you aim high because his guilt most likely help him be agreeable on stuff. The longer you wait, the more likelihood he will change his mind on everything. This is very normal behavior for them.
As for communication, you will see around the board that mlcers don't give a fig what their lawyers advise them to do. Some will remain in contact and others will be in dribbles.
As for the snow blower...are you sure you won't be using it at some point in time?
You need to start looking at your situation as a business deal whereby the contract has been voided.
I hate to say this, but all of you ladies are going to have to tighten your financial belts because he's not going to be paying for the things that he has been in the past. It's all going to be about him and what he wants to do w/his life.
Hang in there and keep your business hat on as much as possible while gathering your financial data.
Now, about his statement that you can have everything...that was the guilt talking.
Yep, I do know that...and hopefully he will keep feeling those feelings.
As for communication, you will see around the board that mlcers don't give a fig what their lawyers advise them to do. Some will remain in contact and others will be in dribbles.
I do know the more you agree upon the less expensive it is. Dividing property should be something he and I hopefully can do without racking up expenses. But being served will shock him and he may become very angry, especially if she uses abandonment. Up until the mortgage stuff, he has been paying all the bills and maintaining the property.
I just hope it doesn't get him to become ugly.
As for contact, right now he can't face me or even hear my voice, so it will be interesting after Christmas.
When it comes to the snow-blower my driveway is flat, and not that long. It could pay for a bill or consult fee. If I put it out on the front porch, it should sell fast! It's unwieldy for me, and if the house is taken from me, I most certainly won't have anywhere to store it.
Business deal, got it. As for it being about him, yup it is already starting. Albeit late. He's already not as generous with the girls.
I really can't imagine that someone would spend all that money and then walk away.
It seems such a waste. I am trying to wrap my head around just the thinking of , get rid of wife, pay years of support versus, figure out what's wrong and work on it. It seems like temporary insanity and is such a waste of things built over years and a waste of time/money.
I will say when reading True Gritter's thread he said something that just hit me upside the head. It was this:
The thought of going on with life as it was, was unbearable so ....
I checked out.
It sounded so much like my H. saying:
I was unhappy and couldn't see continuing the path my life and our relationship was on. I've been struggling with my feelings about the state of our marriage. I don't like the idea of being divorced yet I didn't like the idea of staying in our relationship even more.
Both sound so myopic. It never occurred to either that there were alternatives. That running away doesn't cure the problems, the problems are carried with you.
That if you don't like a trajectory or path, one doesn't have to blow up the path, or direction, but change things, work through them, become partners in change.
It is true, depression can completely cloud a person's judgment and perspective.
This is what I'm considering:
I hear what you are saying, there are other choices and options but I accept the choices you've made.
I disagree.
Please do not default on the mortgage,. If it is behind please rectify and keep it current.
Your choice to do this at this time of year is your choice alone.
Please place my name on any Christmas gifts, for you had previously told me there were no funds to do so, now you have come to a different opinion.
You are still welcome to join us.
A.
My reasoning: I am acknowledging, validating, and disagree.
I am stating my disagreement over some decisions on the house and mortgage, and want it in writing that he may be in non compliance of the loan, and that I disagree and I want it current.
Acknowledging his choice about the timing of the letter and that he owns his behavior.
Showing an inconsistency about finances and how he changed his mind. I am part of the gift giving process.
Leaving an open door.
I'm sitting on it , to think about it.
This is what I'm considering:
I hear what you are saying, there are other choices and options but I accept the choices you've made.
I'm thinking of changing but to yet
I disagree.
Please do not default on the mortgage,. If it is behind please rectify and keep it current.
I still believe this must be stated and is a boundary
Your choice to do this at this time of year is your choice alone.
Truth dart
Please place my name on any Christmas gifts, for you had previously told me there were no funds to do so, now you have come to a different opinion.
Believe gifts should be from us at this time. Especially since he has placed me in a pickle.
You are still welcome to join us.
Unsure about this, and am trying to DB but don't know if this comes across as pursuing. I do NOT want that at all. How do I leave the door ajar, or what ways may I. ?
A.
My reasoning: I am acknowledging, validating, and disagree.
I am stating my disagreement over some decisions on the house and mortgage, and want it in writing that he may be in non compliance of the loan, and that I disagree and I want it current.
Acknowledging his choice about the timing of the letter and that he owns his behavior.
Showing an inconsistency about finances and how he changed his mind. I am part of the gift giving process.
Leaving an open door.
I'm sitting on it , to think about it.
Ambivalent,
I had to sit on your posting last night to think about what you are trying to get across to your h. First, the timing wouldn't have been good any time of the year and the holidays don't mean anything to him at the moment, except to get out of the situation and run like heck. So, pointing out the time of the year, won't do much, if anything. He may have a glimmer of guilt, but not for long.
Also, the way you had the sentence worded about the mortgage is more like a mother telling her son not to default and then you are telling him to rectify the situation and keep it current. They do not like to be told what to do and this may push him to go ahead w/his plans of defaulting.
Instead of asking him to place your name on the gifts you are telling him to do so...it's his choice if he doesn't want to do so.
You may not like the way that I've taken your responses and rewrote them...but you did ask for feedback.
Here's my take:
H, I read your email and even though I don't agree w/your decisions, I have to accept that these are your decisions at this time.
Is there anyway that we can avoid the mortgage going into default? If so, can we work together and rectify any delinquent payments and continue the payments on time?
If you are planning to give gifts to our family and friends, would you please add my name on the gift tags as well? I was unable to purchase separate gifts this year because you had advised me that there no funds available to do so. I would appreciate it if you would do this for me this year.
You are welcome to come by and visit w/your daughters during Christmas.
--------------------------------------------
I think will give him something to think about because you are asking questions...not telling him to do things.
Gotcha,
I was concerned with the mortgage, and thinking about how an attorney would view it. I wanted it in writing that I did not agree with defaulting and I believe in honoring the mortgage commitment know matter what.
Also, the way you had the sentence worded about the mortgage is more like a mother telling her son not to default and then you are telling him to rectify the situation and keep it current. They do not like to be told what to do and this may push him to go ahead w/his plans of defaulting.
I thought by saying " please " I was asking. I agree with the working together part, but at this point I cannot. No money. Is there an alternative reason for your wording on this?
I have to accept that these are your decisions at this time
.
Share with me why you chose those words?
If you are planning to give gifts to our family and friends, would you please add my name on the gift tags as well? I would appreciate it if you would do this for me this year.
I placed your name on the gifts to your siblings. ( That's what I did )
You are welcome to come by and visit w/your daughters during Christmas.
Wow! Help me understand your thought process on this. It does sound abrupt. " visit ", and "your daughters ". Is this the intent? It would come across unwelcoming to me, almost angry. Is this the point? Or am I reading more into it? Is it meant to make him think about something?
Hi Ambivalent,
I think how job re-wrote the response sounded pretty good.. a little more like you are working as a team and he may take to that a little better. I think the line about the daughters sounded fine, I think you are reading into it.
Ambivalent,
Your sentence: "Please do not default on the mortgage. If it is behind please rectify and keep it current." I don't see this as asking him not to...it is more of a statement telling him not to. Change it to a question and indicate you are willing to work w/him in taking care of this matter. I think he'll be more receptive to listening to what you have to say.
I chose the words "I have to accept that these are your decisions at this time" because they are his decisions and it is the way he feels right now. Your decisions were not even considered, I put the onus back on him.
I chose the words that I did for the gifts because you want him to include you on them. You can also add that you've placed his name on the gifts to his siblings.
As for my sentence about coming by to visit his daughters during Christmas...it's not meant to be abrupt at all, but he has specifically stated that he only wants to have contact w/you via email or text. By stating that his daughters will be there, it lets him know that he is still welcome. For now...maybe he might want to see your daughters in the home setting. A step in the right direction if he knows that the door isn't shut tightly and you are willing to allow him to come there to visit w/them. Of course, you can rephrase it and say visit w/the family since I do not know who you have coming over during the holidays...but I do know your daughters will be there for some of it. He may not wish to see anyone at this time.
I have learned that you get more from a mlcer is you ask questions versus coming off as telling them what to do or not do. They don't like anything that sounds like we are telling them what to do. By asking in a roundabout way w/questions, it gives them option to maybe see things your way too.
You asked for feedback, so I gave you my feedback. The beauty of feedback is to use what you can and the rest toss out. I realize you are going to do what you think is best, but I'm suggesting that you rethink how you are going to respond to him and use questions versus telling him. The written word can come off as dictating and as you have interpreted my postings as "abrupt" you can see how it does affect what you are trying to get across. Also, you do not want to come off sounding like a mother or an authority figure when you are trying to get him to do something.
Just my two cents.
Ambiv, I like how job phrased the response. I would not even put “at this time” at the end of the sentence “I have to accept that these are your decisions at this time.” I think it implies that you will be waiting for him to change his decision. We know on this board that MLCers can change their decisions multiple times, but to him this is final at this moment.
I also agree about asking questions vs. telling him what you need him to do. More you push and demand, more he is going to resist. By asking questions you put the ball in his court. You can always change your strategy if this doesn’t work.
Thanks Job, it does help to clarify, I DON'T want to come off as a MOTHER. EEEEEK! I ask for your feedback because I appreciated it , and of course I'm second guessing myself lately.
Bright Future,
I guess that phrase could be taken more than one way. It could be one of those subliminal messages...saying you feel this way now, but you have changed your mind quite a bit lately.
It could also mean , you may change your mind.
OR, it could mean the door is open.
However, I will probably have a suit filed before the end of the month. I don't believe at that time he will believe I'm waiting for him.
I do know this is a pat line from many sources, and does put the responsibility back on them.
It is all confusing, and he is going to hear what he wants anyway.
I'm going to dance in your state tonight Job! I did skip last night due to just needing to nest.
How are you doing? I know you are under considerable stress and w/the holidays approaching, it's going to be even more so. When will your daughters actually be home for a few days?
I do worry about you because I can tell from your postings that your mind is running around in circles like a hamster's wheel at full throttle. Please take care of yourself. It's important that you eat properly, get plenty of rest and take your vitamins and meds, if you have them.
Ask questions here, but remember, we all have experienced things differently.
Thank you for asking , Job.
I am trying to cope, still confused. I want to step very carefully, and with forethought. I'm still trying to learn to communicate differently. Eating is an after thought, hard to when stomach is in a huge knot. I do take the vitamins and my prescription.
Yes, I'll continue to do so, and yes the difference can be very interesting.
I have found out that he is being tight lipped with his family. His youngest brother and sister just texted me. I'm getting the distinct feeling they don't know.
The Aunt who sends money, still sent it. The siblings still sent the usual foodstuffs...I'm not sure how to proceed. I just don't believe it is my place to say anything.
I just finished going through years of paperwork, trying to find any current tax returns. I also found some letters where he was glorifying my efforts at research, and home-schooling.
So if by any chance his attorney tries to make me out to be something I was not, it is his words to his Aunt that will come back and show the reality.
I sure found a continuing pattern of him not paying bills, not opening mail. Then him making more money, cleaning up the mess and the whole cycle starting up again.
It is so sad, he really didn't have any coping skills. He needed help, we needed help. <:C
Ambivalent,
I sure wish I had some words of comfort to offer you. It's tough and confusing. You do need to eat something even if it's yogurt or cottage cheese, etc. Ice cream would be even better to help coat your stomach so that you don't develop an ulcer or worse.
Sounds like he's not sharing much about the situation w/his family. It's going to get interesting because someone is going to have to acknowledge the gifts, etc. and the question will be will you be the only one signing the card w/your name or will he want you to include him as well.
Did you find the recent tax returns? You will probably need them at some point.
Please take care of yourself. If you can get thru the holidays, that will be one huge hurdle out of your way.
Take care.
A,
I was just reading your recent posts. So sorry for what you are going through.
Please know I'm thinking about you.
Angela R
Thanks again Job, I had some chicken soup. I make it and freeze it, so when I need to have a mommy cook for me. He won't care, I'm interested what he's going to do for the day.
Oh well it is his choice. How immature that he can't be with his daughter and brother on Christmas, it is truly pitiful .
Haven't found anything recent, but I do know it has to be disclosed.
I do eat coffee yogurt every morning, so I get lots of protein, no worries. It was just the recent BD. I guess at this point all the bombs have been dropped.
So I'm going to be a divorced woman. At this point I really should cut my losses. He is really unreliable, doesn't have coping skills, is a coward and runs away or sticks his head in the sand.
Do I really need that ? I'm really enjoying the swing dancing, he probably would do it with me, so why bother hoping anymore. It'll be a year in May, and we've been apart the whole time, so it will go through pretty fast.
I may end up happier without him, without the constant stress of what stress will I be under next?
I danced the night away to the Glenn Miller Band...AWESOME!
I went to a different venue and met new people. I've been going alone, and meeting all sorts of dancers.
Thanks Angela,
Yup, he's a real pip huh?
So after Christmas it'll be heading in the Southern direction.
I'm more sorry for my kids right now. I'm realizing I'll probably go through some more rides, and then it'll be over.
Weird, but reality.
Do I really need that ? I'm really enjoying the swing dancing, he probably would do it with me, so why bother hoping anymore. It'll be a year in May, and we've been apart the whole time, so it will go through pretty fast.
whoopsie. I meant he wouldn't do it.
The more and more I look at things , the less I seem to care.
Maybe it is just me cycling again, not sure.
There were too many times that I lived under incredible stress. When going through documents, I did not know our first house went into foreclosure.
He kept that from me. Was concerned it was too much for me and that I couldn't deal with it...WOW!
Know wonder he's terrified to try again, this is where the root of his fear( about us ) lay. He has other issues, but I can see this.
I'm going to have to show a pattern of him being financially irresponsible. Not something I want to do.
I am vacillating to and fro.
Do I stand? Would it really be best for me, or us?
Yes it would be best for our children.
I just don't know.
I still haven't responded to his Dear Jane.
I'm wondering , do I even have to?
What purpose does it serve, and what difference would it really make?
His Aunt sent a check, mailed it to us, but as usual written to him.
I have for years always signed it and deposited it in my acct.
I figure since there is still no agreement, that I'll just keep with the pattern.
I won't use but half, in case for some reason it becomes an issue.
It would allow me to get some equipment and start to work on my own. That would be a positive first step.
I talked to my boss and she said she'd lower the price she was asking me. So this is a step in the right direction.
I'm going to church this morn, then the house. If I have any energy, the gym.
I need the strength to stay focused, and to detach all the way.
I just hope my daughter (s) one day see I loved, cared , and was willing to give it my all.
That my back is up against a wall, and I have to protect what's left.
Was I living a fantasy? Should I have gone back to work even when he said I didn't have to? Should I have been more involved with our finances, even though we disagreed on how to handle them?
Or would we still be here, because no matter how much money was made, it was still spent?
At this point , I'm hoarding as much as I can.
[quote]
Maybe it is just me cycling again, not sure.
You're tired hun, we go back and forth....it's normal
I'm going to have to show a pattern of him being financially irresponsible. Not something I want to do.
I told the judge point blank H has a history of bad money decisions and that I wanted my portion of the house money he is getting, for my back child/spousal, to be in trust. It didn't go well with him or his L but it's not about them.....it's about protecting us and our children
Do I stand? Would it really be best for me, or us?
Only you can answer that.......you need to move forward though, not an option, but if you feel the need to leave the door slightly open then do that as well.
Yes it would be best for our children.
Best, if our H's can make the changes necessary to grow up and take ownership of their lives. We don't want to teach our children that this behaviour is acceptable until the end of time either
I still haven't responded to his Dear Jane.
I'm wondering , do I even have to?
I feel like you do. As everyone said to you. That you received it, will review it and get back to him in the New Year
His Aunt sent a check, mailed it to us, but as usual written to him.
I have for years always signed it and deposited it in my acct.
I figure since there is still no agreement, that I'll just keep with the pattern.
I won't use but half, in case for some reason it becomes an issue.
It would allow me to get some equipment and start to work on my own. That would be a positive first step.
I talked to my boss and she said she'd lower the price she was asking me. So this is a step in the right direction.
I would think that if it's from his aunt you probably shouldn't deposit it but I'm no vet and I'm sure they have better advice
I'm going to church this morn, then the house. If I have any energy, the gym.
Good.....give it over to God this morning. Allow Him to comfort you and hear your needs. Trust He will never abandon you
I just hope my daughter (s) one day see I loved, cared , and was willing to give it my all.
That my back is up against a wall, and I have to protect what's left.
Girls need to see their mother fight for her family, you've done this, and then they need them to see it's OK to fight for themselves....you'll show them this now
Was I living a fantasy? Should I have gone back to work even when he said I didn't have to? Should I have been more involved with our finances, even though we disagreed on how to handle them?
Or would we still be here, because no matter how much money was made, it was still spent?
At this point , I'm hoarding as much as I can.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda, serves no purpose other than to make US crazy hun. You're starting here so make the decisions based on now. You're going through a very hard emotional battle at an already stressful time but know that WHEN you get through this you'll know you can get through anything.
Sending you big hugs and lots of luv!!
Ambivalent,
White Rose has responded to your latest posting and she gave you some excellent advice. Yes, you do need to acknowledge his email/text message so that he is aware that you received it.
As for the check, I would go head and deposit since you've done this in the past.
As for having documentation showing that your h has been lax in the financial department...this has to be shown because your attorney needs this data in order to establish a pattern and possibly hold his feet to the fire on finances in the future.
Do you stand? That is up to you and you are the only one that can determine that. You can move forward w/your life and leave the door ajar. If he should wake up and get his act together and want to return to you, then you can decide whether you want to try again. This is a very personal issue that we can't answer for you.
You'll continue to cycle and have ups and downs for quite a while. It's a very stressful and emotional time for you. Nothing has to be decided today and you've got some time to think about things. Don't make any decisions when you are angry or upset. You need to keep a clear head when dealing w/the separation of material and financial things.
You will get thru this, but it's going to take time. You'll discover that you are stronger than you think. I think you've held up quite well under this latest news.
Thanks guys, I really need contact...I just found out a boat load of cow manure:
Holy cow, I know now why he can't face me...I've been digging through a ton of bills and paperwork.
The debt on Fed taxes is over a hundred grand. Add to that there is a lien on the house, and he has had his paychecks garnished. When he said I had no idea ...uh he is right! OMG. I don't know what the Hell is going to happen. There is defin. a pattern over the years, and it has just caught up to him and blown up in his face. Not only is his credit shot, but mine. He has defaulted on older daughter's loan, so her credit is shot. And I just found hospital bills in my other daughter's name, which are not paid! So at 21 her credit is shot! My God...I sure hope an attorney can fix this for her, since she had no idea.
I'm going to let her know AFTER Christmas, this just [censored]. When he said he's been living a double life...now I get it. I'm just blown away. That is just what I found, who knows whatever else is out there!
No wonder he wants to run away. I sure hope he doesn't do something to himself, this is stress that has to be body and soul blowing. He has guns, hopefully he left them at his friend's house in VA.
With Christmas and all of this, I'm really scared for him.
Yeah, I'm scared for me too, but there is nothing I can do presently. This is HUGE, MERRY CHRISTMAS !
This just keeps getting worse and worse. I'm afraid to even think about tomorrow.
I looked up the snow thrower, it's going out on the porch tonight with a huge for sale sign on it! He paid over 1200. for it and it was only used about five times. Sheesh.
Ambivalent,
I am so sorry all of this has come to light, but things happen for a reason and maybe, must maybe this was suppose to happen because your credit standing is now on the line. I would ask the lawyer about your daughter's hospital bills. Since she was on her father's insurance plan, her credit rating may not be shot to h@ck as well as the loan for the other daughter.
Okay, here's the million dollar question...how long has this "recent" stuff been going on? Can you tell from all of the mess you've discovered? I wonder how this is all going to play out if there is a lien on the house. Surely, you aren't going to take that one on are you in order to keep the house. Uncle Sam may be coming to call to get their money very soon. Ask the lawyer about that too because the Government may come along and start selling off stuff to get what is owed in back taxes. I honestly don't know how they'll handle that w/your h and the huge amount he owes.
No wonder he wanted to default on the mortgage. My question is this...what has he done w/his money if he wasn't paying bills?
Yes, he better run, in fact, he may want to consider leaving the country. He just might find himself in a white collar prison before it's all over w/if those taxes aren't paid.
I seriously doubt that he's going to harm himself. In my opinion, he would have done that when all of this mess start snowballing. I don't think he ever thought you would go looking for stuff this soon. Now, you've got to think about what you want to do because there is an awful lot of defaults floating around as well as taxes owed and a lien on the house.
I'm very sorry that this is coming to light now, but in a way I'm glad because you now know what you are going to be dealing w/and you won't be surprised later. Keep digging. You need all of that documentation when you visit w/the lawyer. He/she needs to know all of that financial mess up front.
I don't blame you....sell the snow blower!
This pattern is ongoing. For instance, I did not know he hadn't paid the loan on our house in another county. That was when he got downsized and we had to sell the house, put our first born in wilderness therapy, and I home-schooled.
When I look back at the years, the mis-managing of money has been throughout the marriage. He wanted to budget, and I had no problem with it , I just didn't sit down with him and go over it with me. My strength was not in numbers, and he didn't want to do the savings and college accounts I suggested. So I felt I had nothing to contribute.
I just had no clue that things were as bad as they are. He has got to feel so emasculated, overwhelmed, and hopeless.
I just told my daughter about the hospital bill, and to be ready for anything. She may be mature, responsible, and compassionate, but she is still having to deal with this as the child or what's going on.
My oldest has chosen not to come for Christmas, due to not having any gifts to give, and because she had her nose out of joint due to her vegan restrictions. She brought her stuff and yet still expected to be accommodated. I told her to bring what she wanted and not worry about the gifts...She did say we could go to a movie. I agreed, so we'll see. So it will be just the three of us. Uncle , daughter #2, and I.
I'm going to get a gift for daughter #2 and then make her the chowder, and homemade instant hot cocoa mix.
S I g h ...
It is just incredible how all this is going down
Oh yeah, the house is under, so there is no money for the IRS, I think he has been working with them, it is just such a mess.
I can't help but feel the stress, and yet I feel for him too.
Ambivalent,
I'm sorry that how everything is playing out for you. It's like the flood gates have opened up to show you everything at one time.
I'm glad you were honest w/your daughter about the hospital bill. At least she won't be surprised if something comes up.
I do hope that both of your daughters will be there for Christmas. You and the girls need to support each other in a time like this. I know that your oldest daughter can be a bit difficult at times, but I'm praying that she will settle herself down a bit and truly listen and be there for you. A movie would be a nice way to end the day, if she opts to come.
Was your h's parents like this, i.e., getting deep in debt and not having a way out? From what you've said here, this is not the first time he's done this. He's had to have been exposed to some of this behavior somewhere in his life. I can't imagine anyone getting this deep in debt and drowning like this, but I guess it does happen somewhere in the world.
I am praying that your lawyer will be able to answer some of the financial questions for you and I also hope that you can find a way to clear your name on some of those things. I truly feel for you and I am worried about you as all of this has been a shock today.
Please take care of yourself. I know this is stressful, but there's nothing you can do about what has happened in the past. All you can do is take care of the present and hopefully find some answers very soon.
Wow AB. I have no advice, but really feel for you. The relationship issues are tough enough to deal with, without dealing with financial problems. So Sorry.
Ambivalent,
How are you this morning? Please post and let us know you are okay. I know you've had a stressful weekend and I'm worried about you.
I read your email and even though I don't agree w/your decisions, I have to accept that these are your decisions at this time.
Is there anyway that we can avoid the mortgage going into default? If so, may we work together and rectify any delinquent payments and continue the payments on time?
If you are planning to give gifts to our family, would you please add my name on the gift tags as well? I was unable to purchase separate gifts this year because you had advised me that there no funds available to do so. I would appreciate it if you would do this for me this year. I mailed to all of your siblings out of state, the gourmet breakfast, and a small gift to xxx and xxx. Your name was included.
You are welcome to come by and visit w/your daughter during Christmas. xxx due to no gifts and veganism has decided to not come. xxxxxxx and xxxxx will be here.
I will review this again and get back to you
in the 2014.
Can I assume that you've sent your reply this morning?
How are you doing?
No, wanted to make sure this was okay...
I'm in a sort of shock, and function mode.
Daughter came out last night, reeeeally helped.
Hurt my rib cage on the trash receptacle, very sore.
Planning on groc. shopping, finish cleaning and gym for tonight.
Well, I finally sent the response. He is going to take the girls out tonight to a movie and give them their gifts. It will be interesting to see what he tells them as to why he isn't coming on Christmas.
Funny, I guess the mortgage money is going to gifts and movie and dinners for them. Wonder where the rest of that mortgage money is going...?
At this point I'm stocking up on groceries, just in case. Wish I could stock up on gas too.
Got in contact with three more attorney's today, oh JOY! Yes I'm being sarcastic. Having to deal with this at this time, while he blithely goes about his business is very maddening.
What else gets me a bit overwhelmed is that I'm left with everything in the sheds, and house in which to deal. I have no money, and I'm supposed to find a place to move, get moved, and do this by myself?
This is SO wrong!
Ambivalent,
I'm sorry to hear about your rib cage. That type of injury hurts for a while.
Glad to read that he's taking the girls out to a movie and present them w/gifts. It's interesting how they never have money for the bills, etc., but they've got money for the movies, dinners, gifts, etc.
I'm surprised you were able to find any attorneys around this week. Did you speak w/them or set up appointments? No time is a good time to deal w/this stuff.
Yes, it does get overwhelming...but this is the mlc world and they do tend to drop everything in your lap and leave you to take care of the packing, movement, etc. I think that once you get your info from the attorney, I would contact him and advise him how does he plan to handle the stuff in the sheds. He needs to tell you what to do w/the stuff and it's better that he be included in on that part of it because we don't want him to come back and say he wasn't given a chance to come there and get stuff before it's sold or moved.
Yes, all of it is so wrong and I'm so sorry.