Time for a new thread.
Previous Thread is:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2364394&page=1The title reflects that I'm no longer overly obsessed about what the W is doing or not doing. The previous thread was titled "still about the Wife" because I had realized I was spending way too much time thinking about our marriage.
What's our status? -- definitely still limbo-land, but on the surface things are mostly good. It is the deeper relationship that is missing and still not right.
I have been focusing more attention on my work that I had neglected somewhat over the past 9 months. Some good opportunities have come my way in spite of my lack of attention, but now I am putting in the effort that was missing previously.
I use this site as my journal. So here's some journaling.
I realize that my W has submitted her applications to university. She didn't make a big announcement or a big deal to me, but the deadline has passed and she is no longer working on the applications. When she was working on her essay, I had offered to review it for her. I work in a university so I know what they are looking for and how to write a persuasive essay. She never took me up on my offer. The one time I did see her essay, I thought it could use a lot of improvement. I still think she has a better than average chance of being accepted. My W is smart and talented and has the right background. Even if her essay wasn't the best, she had very good recommendation letters from previous employers who really appreciated her work and professionalism. We'll see what happens.
Yesterday evening just as our girls were going to bed, my W went out shopping for make-up that we seemed to have left at our retreat last weekend. She was gone about twice as long as she needed to be, and then I realized she probably went to the rock gym climbing first. I guess things aren't that bad if this is the only type of secret/lie that she keeps from me.
Meanwhile, I have a backlog of work that will keep me busy for til the end of the year!
Fastcars,
Had a chance to read through your sitch and man are you right, there are some scary parallels! There were times that I literally pushed back from my desk and rolled my chair back a few feet.
It looks to me like you are doing really well, especially with focusing on your kids and refocusing on your work. I know my work has suffered greatly over the past several months, so I can relate to trying to reengage...only thing worse than W going through MLC is W going through MLC causes H to lose his job!
I read PM about 6 years ago. How did you like it? One line I remember from it is the concept of learning to appreciate the "symphony of marriage".
A couple observations. One, your W seems to spend a lot of time with friend relationships, including other men. Considering the incident in July, has this changed at all?
Also, it seems like your W is going along and keeping the peace, but is she really re-engaged since moving home or is it a "smile and wave, nothing to see here" for her, thinking all is well? Reason I ask is that given her sending in her application, is she just waiting until getting an answer to really confront things, thinking she might be leaving again for school anyway? Just a question, I don't have a suggestion based on it, just trying to understand.
CB
PS - Love the Bay area this time of year. You guys wine drinkers?
CB, thanks for stopping by.
Had a chance to read through your sitch and man are you right, there are some scary parallels! There were times that I literally pushed back from my desk and rolled my chair back a few feet.
yes, I also wonder about the similarities and 'script' between many situations. It is, what it is.
A couple observations. One, your W seems to spend a lot of time with friend relationships, including other men. Considering the incident in July, has this changed at all?
friendships are very important to her. One reason may simply be to constantly occupy her time and stay busy. She has kept her word as far as I know to break off the relationships that I asked as a condition of coming home. I really believe it was driven by fantasy more than anything else. She hardly knew the guy. I also observed to her that based on the phone records, he never initiated contact. Frankly, I don't think he was that interested in her (But like most any man, if a women throws herself at you, you don't turn her away).
Her other male friends are really acquaintances that she shares a hobby with. I've met them all.
Also, it seems like your W is going along and keeping the peace, but is she really re-engaged since moving home or is it a "smile and wave, nothing to see here" for her, thinking all is well? Reason I ask is that given her sending in her application, is she just waiting until getting an answer to really confront things, thinking she might be leaving again for school anyway? Just a question, I don't have a suggestion based on it, just trying to understand.
Good questions, and I don't really know. We don't have many relationship discussions and we do not talk that far into the future. My guess is that she has an ongoing internal debate about our relationship. As far as the school, I do not know what she is thinking. She has expressed that her getting admitted is a long shot. So maybe she just doesn't believe that she will be accepted? IDK.
From my point of view, I don't think about it either. I figure we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
PS - Love the Bay area this time of year. You guys wine drinkers?
yes, and there are many places with 10-15 minutes of us to go tasting.
I wouldn't advise the r talks or pushing the decision on the medical school, I would let it come at it's own pace. The line around here of "embracing time as your friend" I think is really a good one. I was just unsure, that is why I asked.
I am a big fan of your crushed grapes. Sitting with a bottle of cab and talking is one of our most important communication times!
CB
I’ve been reading this book titled Mad Dash by Patricia Gaffney and I think she does a great job of capturing what many of us are experiencing. It is a story of a middle-aged couple in which their only child has left for college and the wife has a mid-life crisis. The parallels of events and behavior between my life, what I’ve read on this forum and the book are eerie.
The book is in the first person, initially of the wife, then later the husband. Since it’s in the first person we get to see what the wife is thinking/feeling, which is all over the place.
For example, there’s a scene where they’re in a restaurant and the W already knows what wine the husband will order, and the predictability repels her. A new relationship would bring the excitment of the unknown, yet here with him, all is known and expected. Throughout the dinner she is alternately repelled by him and attracted to him. I thought to myself here is some of the reason for the 180s. If he did something different, then that would get her curiosity up. We see that she does love him, but she is tired of him too. She is unhappy inside, something is missing from her life and he is being blamed for it. She cannot love him while she is like this. It is the author’s ability to present this thinking without making her seem crazy that I really appreciate.
The W is a successful portrait photographer with her own business. The H is a professor, but at a standstill in his career. She is a free-spirit, seeking adventure. He is fastidious, stereotypical academic type. She leaves him over a small dog that shows up and is almost dead on their doorstep. She moves out to a cabin they have in the country. He, of course, cannot understand what’s going on – it’s not rational. His actions push her further away.
Many things that happen on this forum happen here. They were evidently happily married for 20 years, but suddenly she is unhappy and starts to revise the history, highlighting all the problems and incompatibilities. She sings the praises of a rural handyman who is the exact opposite of her urban academic husband. She makes friends with a girl half her age. She experiences dating vicariously through her divorced friend. She wants to return to school for veterinarian medicine – something she’s never seemingly been interested in!
She also portrays the H as the LBS very well and we see how he reacts to the whole situation. BTW, he does everything wrong so far. He laughed at her about going back to school. He failed to validate her feelings. Etc.
I’m only about 1/3 of the way through the book. If you want a fictional account that is light and humorous of a mid-life crisis and the couple going through it, I recommend this book.
It'll be interesting to hear how it ends...
Peace,
AJ
Some Journaling ...
A super busy weekend. I went to a BBQ on Friday with my boating friends to watch a movie we've been talking about for months. We finally got together. Had a nice time. Then on Saturday we had guests at noon for a BBQ, we walked over to a neighbor's later in the day, who was having a day-long party with about 100 people, and then that evening we went to another BBQ.
This past week, my W went out every night. She went to her gym twice a week as usual, then on 2 nights she left at about 8pm to 'go shopping' but she also went to the rock climbing gym for some time. Consequently, she didn't get home those nights until about 10:30 or 11pm. She did not tell me she was going to the rock gym or afterwards that she went. On the second time she went, I asked her "where else did you go?" because she was gone so long, and it doesn't take that long to go to the supermarket. She said, to the rock climbing gym. She acted as if it was a spontaneous decision on her part to go. Yet, when she left she made a point of taking the car that had her equipment in it -- she had planned on going.
It bothered me because she is lying to me again. It is not a big lie, but instead of saying what she wants to do, she hides it and then lies about it, saying she didn't plan on going. I wish she was truthful. Lying about this makes me wonder what else is she lying about?
I also thought that with all this activity, it is as if my W cannot tolerate any quiet time. She needs to fill her day with activity: either physical activity or social activity.
On Sunday morning my W invited me to go to crossfit with her. Maybe to work off all the drink and food -- ha, I needed to!
Last night my W injured her knee while at the gym wrestling. I wonder what this is going to mean because exercise is an important part of her life right now. I hope she is smart enough to let it heal. It took my knee almost 4 months to heal and it still isn't 100%
Your wife sounds a bit like my hubby.. always having to stay busy keeping fit and doing activities! It is something I have learned to deal with but it does drive me crazy at times. We have 3 young children, and since they've been born, he has built a wood-working shop in our backyard, re-landscaped our backyard, renovated our entire basement, and other various jobs around our house. On top of that he is taking evening classes to get a university degree. He also plays volleyball and he also jogs and walks.
I always hoped that after a big project he would settle down for a bit and help with the kids around the house more. But there always seems to be another project. I guess I am lucky since he is doing things that benefit our family.
It's good that your wife is inviting you to go along with her to crossfit, that she is including you in activities. My H is slowly starting to open up to me like that again, just little things here and there. I find it's those little things that you take for granted when things are going well.
Have a good day,
-cp
Hi CP, yes my W does like to keep busy nowadays. She has actually kept herself busy for the past 10 years or so, I would guess. What has changed is the nature of what she does. Things that she enjoyed doing 5 years ago, she no longer does.
You should encourage your H to get the kids involved in his projects. They're still young, but they can play where he is and stuff. When I was working on my garage, my 6 year old at the time joined me once and hammered nails into scrape wood.
Thanks, I like that idea FastCars, it makes things easier for me too, and the kids get to bond with their dad. I will often send one of the kids with him when he goes to to Home Depot.. H practically lives there! haha. Sorry for hijacking your thread, lol. Have a great day.
Looking for cash in my W's wallet to give to my daughters so they can go to the movies, I see my W's form for going to the doctor. This is a doctor that she was (still is?) infatuated with. She injured her knee and he is a specialist in joints/bones.
On the form where you put marital status, my W created a box "hmmm ...." and checked that box.
My W was there, and I'm like "nice." She says it's a joke.
Why does my W think I'm dumb or gullible? I can laugh at myself and us as well, but I don't see how this is a joke?
to me, it is her advertising to people that she's not happy and she may be available.
She did call me later to apologize, and she even said that she would reprint the form and redo it. My guess is that she will not. Just another lie to make me feel good. She's getting good at that.
FC, that bites. Sorry to read this and feel your pain finding this. Not sure what is worse, finding it or having your W blow it off and lie about it.
What did you say when you asked her about it and what did you say when she apologized?
Also, when you allowed her to moving back home after kicking her out for the one night stand, did you have any boundaries that you established?
CB
CB, living together was conditioned on the idea that you're married so you don't spend time looking for other men. This entailed breaking off inappropriate relationships which she did.
This is just stupidness, and maybe I'm reading too much into it. Really it disrespects the marriage and me -- that is my biggest problem with shenanigans like this.
She did apologize and was upset that I was upset about this. Anyway, we already moved on.
FastCars, I understand why you were upset by what she did, and for sure I would have been upset as well. Kind of toying with the idea of being single, and very disrespectful. Besides all of that, how are things between the two of you? Did you end up going to crossfit with her? How was that?
Hi CP,
Things between us are actually quite well. We did go to crossfit together. I enjoyed the workout -- it's short but can be challenging. We actually spend quite a bit of time together each week, just the two of us and with the kids as well. We also do our own things too.
My W was asked to come for an interview to the University she applied to. I thought she would be -- she's smart, talented and has a good resume. We'll see if she's accepted and then where we go from there.
FC,
Just checking to see how you are doing. Any news on your W's school decision? Hope you are well.
CB
Hi Sailing, just checking on everyone! So...your W was accepted at the university?! Is this course to become a physician's assistant that is 5 hours away that you spoke of? Yikes.
How are your girls doing? Do they know their mom is considering moving 5 hours away?
I can also see why you would be hurt about your W writing "hmmmm" for her marital status on Dr. Cute's form. But don't forget, she IS in a MLC, and lying and flirting and all the other hurtful crap they do is just designed to make them feel better about themselves. I haven't checked your thread in a long time, and it sounds like you're doing well overall; it hasn't even been a year yet since BD. Hang in there!
I have dropped the forum for about the past 4 months. I thought i would come back, read up on others and let everybody know how things go.
BTW, dropping the forum for awhile was good for my mental health.
More or less, things have been well between us. My W and I spend a lot of time together. She was turned down for admissions, and for now seems accepting that she will not be going back to school. Although she is not happy with her job.
My W has made some nice choices to be with me versus do something else and she seems less depressed. For example, this past Friday she said she wanted to eat early so that she could go to the gym. I told her I didn't want to eat early, so she decided to skip the gym and she ate with us at a resturant.
With that said, my W is still working through MLC issues. She still goes out frequently (averages 3 times a week) and a few times she's been out late to 10pm during the week.
Some changes are a permanent change of her personality now. Permanent changes are her extreme need to have many, many friends and have a very socially active life. Physical activity is now a big part of her life. She has dropped many things that she used to enjoy. This week, I asked her if she read a book, and she admitted that she hasn't read in a long time because, "Whenever I pick up a book, I feel like I should be doing something else..."
So in summary, our interactions are good, DB-ing has become a part of me, and we are living as a close married couple. She seems content with the way things are between us. I still feel we need to make progress. I have not heard the words, "I love you" from her, nor have we had any relationship talks. I'm not sure when, if ever to initiate them.
I thought I would post this because I notice on the forum mostly failures and sad stories. I believe the people who are successful in rebuilding their life and relationships, they are the ones who leave the forum.
I don't count myself as a success yet, but I am much better off than 6 months ago, and content with how things are for now.
I'm glad that things are better, but I would re-evaluate your statement...
"So in summary, our interactions are good, DB-ing has become a part of me, and we are living as a close married couple."
"I have not heard the words, "I love you" from her, nor have we had any relationship talks. I'm not sure when, if ever to initiate them. "
This doesn't sound like a close married couple.
It sounds like things are getting swept under the rug and (just a warning) they have a tendency to come back with a vengeance unless the issues are addressed.
Mr. Bond, thanks for that feedback and observation.
I think your right, and I need to think about this. By "close" I mean that we spend time together, do things together as a couple and also as a family.
Are we intimate? Yes and no. This week she was away for 1 night, and she texted me when she arrived, and included a "I miss you." Then later that night she initiated a sexting exchange (and we joked because we were not very daring, our sexting was at a PG-13 level :D) We do discuss other things than our relationship. About 2 months after she found out she was rejected from the university, she told me about her ideas and thoughts with respect to her career.
So we are intimate up to the last few yards. IDK, if this makes sense. Do others consider this being intimate?
Aside from sexting, do you actually have sex? Have you tried to seduce her?
Yes we do. Although it never stopped, so I'm not sure whether it is indicative of the health of our relationship.
Things have been going well for me and my marriage. Over the past 6 months, things have improved. My W is more engaged in family, she seems less depressed, we interact nicely, we go out together, make love, she invites me places, we went out recently to a friends and a large group watched a movie afterwards and she let me put my arm around her in front of her friends. Then, last week on Friday she went out with some girlfriends from her work, who are much younger than her. She had a good time and came home very late, about 1am. She was very happy, came in bed naked and started talking me up. I was tired in a not in the mood. She told me two things. She said how her mother told her she would never do better than me – I know her mom likes me. She then told me very softly, “I love you.” Well, its been a long time since I’ve heard those words. I asked how many drinks she had, and she told me 4 over the entire night. She was slightly drunk.
Anyway, I’ve reread the Divorce Remedy book and I need to start asking for what I want, which is a chapter in her book. I also want to slowly start engaging my W in relationship discussions. So last night, I made us dinner and we ate alone after our 3 kids went to bed. We were talking, and then I brought up what she said the other night.
Me: The other night when you said that you loved me, I asked if you were drinking because it’s been a long time since you’ve told me that.
I forget what she said, it was something to the effect of why am I making a fuss out of it. She then changed the subject. After 5 minutes of something else, I guided the conversation back,
Me: I have confused feelings, on the one hand I’m happy but on the other hand, after you telling me the opposite for so long, I’m a little depressed too.
W: I never said that I didn’t love you.
Me: Yes, you’re correct, you never actually said it, but you’ve done 100 things that show it.
W: silence for a few and then a hundred? Really? (she makes a face as if I’m from Mars and don’t know what I’m talking about)
Me: 7 months ago you fooled around with that surfer dude one night, you told our friend that you were only staying with me for the kids, and I gave one more example.
W: when did our friend tell you that?
Me: it was a year ago.
W: I don’t want to talk about that. It was what I was feeling at the time. What do you want to hear from me?
….
I told her that it would mean more to me if she said she loved me when she was sober. She joked that the opposite should be true. I disagreed. I also told her, after she said “what do you want me to say?” that I would like if she acknowledged that I’m not crazy, apologize, say she’s happy to be here. She didn’t apologize, she downplayed everything as if it didn’t happen. She then put her head against mine and said “I do love you.”
Our conversation, for what it was, ended. Soon after we went to bed.
Any thoughts? My W is not quite out of MLC. She is apparently not ready to talk about it. It is interesting her take on things. My W has a great memory for these things, so her version is a really altered reality. I’ve read on this board how a MLCer will say things to friends, etc. to test ideas out loud. She did this many times.
I feel that to build a stronger relationship, we'll have to start discussing our relationship and what we each want from it. I'm patient and will wait before I instigate another conversation like this.
Hey FC,
Things sound good, and yeah, sounds like she isn't ready to go there quite yet in any big chunks. My W has implied the same, in round about words, and definitely in actions...take it slowly.
You dropped some truth darts and seeds, now just water them for awhile by keeping up the positive actions and interactions, building positive memory terrain for when she is ready to go "there", imo.
She is probably processing what you said, and trying to see how it fits with her remembered (or not, my W doesn't remember sooo much! And she is like your W, normally very detailed memory of these sort of things) reality.
I would keep in mind that, YES, her time in MLC is a very different and distorted reality, but slowly things will be remembered more correctly...something I told to another person here, that it's like going out and partying way too much, doing crazy stuff and not remembering due to blackouts...people tell you what you did and you are floored, embarrassed, etc. And you don't remember at first, but overtime the brain reconnects the memory neurons and you start to remember...well that's how it appears to be playing out in my sitch.
And when those memories are put back together correctly for her? THAT is when you will need to be the best, kindest, most compassionate, forgiving man you can be...
The post "Musings from AmyC" gives great insight into that, I am seeing some of that in my sitch.
Man, I would love to hear those words, good for you!!
I reread the Divorce Remedy, and I realize that since my situation has improved, one technique which I have not used, is something I should start using. The technique is what she called "ask for what you want in action-oriented terms." I did this earlier this week about my W's going out during the week. As my W has been working diligently to expand her circle of friends, she is going out more and more. Sometimes 3 times/week. It's becoming too much. Sometimes, I'm with her, but more often I'm not. For example, on Monday she went to the gym, and then went out afterwards with friends to a bar and returned at 10pm. I'm home with the girls doing everything and then after they're in bed, I'm alone.
So I've had enough of this, and I told her in a non-confrontational type of way. My goal was to set a boundary that she not go out more than once per week. She resisted, saying sometimes it's "spontaneous" and she needs to go out to keep friends, ... So I'm not sure whether she will stay with this, or how long. She did say OK, but it was a dejected, depressed type of OK.
At least, we were able to discuss this issue, which has been an issue for the past 18 months, and discuss it without fighting.
After more than a year of DB-ing, I've become less anxious about the W and the marriage. I don't know how a person's MLC runs its course, but for my W, she is on the downward slope. She seems no longer depressed; she no longer seems like she wants to get away from me; she spends time with family/kids; she friended me on FB; she asked me to lunch during the work week; she involves me in activities; and when I ask her to stay home she does.
I say she is on the downward slope because she has changed. She is still very physically active with gym, Crossfit, and other activities. She still wants an active 20-something lifestyle of going out and socializing. She has two 24 year-old girlfriends that could be our daughters. She wants to try many new things. This week it is surfing.
She no longer does things that she used to enjoy. I asked her recently why she doesn't read books anymore. She used to read 1-2 books/month. She told me that whenever she sits down to read a book, she feels like she is wasting time. She could be doing something...
I am slowly unwinding some DB-ing techniques. I used to give her a lot of space and follow Sandi's 37 rules in the newcomer's forum. I think doing so helped immensely. I now initiate things with her. I show love physically and in other ways. If something really bothers me, I tell her and tell her in action-oriented terms what I want.
I still exercise, always try to look attractive (the physical is important to her, and truth be told, to me too), I do give her more space than before BD, I avoid complaining about things she does (except if it really bothers me), and I try to use positive reinforcement.
What is lacking? Sometimes I feel like a cruise director that has to keep her entertained all the time. Just sitting home and relaxing would be nice. She goes out too much, sometimes 3-4 times each week. I told her recently, and she stopped, but I know it is killing her to stay home. She still texts people frenetically. She wants a large social circle. After more than a year of her showing she didn't love me, I feel as if I need her to say she loves me every other day -- she doesn't. Although she has told me that she loves me 3 times this year (yes, pathetic that I know how many times). Unfortunately, it always was after drinking alcohol. I mentioned this to her in the morning, and she said that I should take it as meaning more since alcohol loosens inhibitions ... not so sure ... but I do believe she loves me.
In a few weeks is her 43rd birthday. She is throwing herself a party, which strikes me as odd. As if she's one of my daughters having a b-day party. About 20-30 people are invited, only 3 will be older than us since she has sought out a younger crowd. Also, most of her peers (married women with children) don't want to go to the gym, out drinking, surfing, like my W does now.
So I'm holding in there, things have improved, and I'm waiting/hoping that this stage will gradually wind down and we can enjoy both an active life-style but also just sitting around together.
Thanks for the update FC, I'm glad to hear things are on the upswing. MLC sure takes a long time to work through, doesn't it?
I too am moving into "ask for what you want", initiating, and voicing complaint's. For a M to work this is a must have. So if she is responsive, that's a great sign!
You say W goes out too much. Does she tell you about her times out? My W does and I encourage it. I feel close when she is comfortable telling me about "her" world. So, since you "know it is killing her to stay home", maybe loosen up a bit and try to be part of it. My guess is it will play out quicker if you allow it to.
Oh, and regarding the wanting to hear ILY. We all want what we don't have. My W and I are not physical, so I want that. Others have a spouse who is not present, so that's what they long for. The list goes on. See how that works? I find that when I instead focus on the good parts of my sitch, I'm happier and more present for my W, which makes her feel better and lessons the chance of her looking outside the M to have her needs met. You're doing great!
"She has told me that she loves me 3 times this year (yes, pathetic that I know how many times). Unfortunately, it always was after drinking alcohol."
"She goes out too much"
Simple remedy here. Stock up the home liquor cabinet.
Was my W's 43rd b-day. Last year for her b-day she went out with her friend and didn't celebrate with us (me and 3 girls). This year she stayed home with us, I made dinner and she talked with me, the girls friends were here and when the father came to pick them up, we invited them to stay for dinner. We ate dinner, gave my wife a cake that I baked with oldest D. I had flowers sent to her office earlier in the day. We went for a walk, put the girls to bed, she texted friends while I relaxed, we went into hot tub, and then watched a TV show. Overall a nice time, in fact my W just before bed thanked me for a nice b-day.
Last year the 28 year-old girl that she went out with for her b-day is no longer my W’s friend. My W doesn’t know why, but for some reason this girl stopped returning W’s text messages. My W told me that she always thought she shouldn’t stay friends with this person because of all the problems she had. I know the reason my W stayed friends with her was because my W wants to go out, drinking, partying and having fun – none of her married friends will do this with the frequency she wanted to so her only option was the 28-year-old, unemployed, alcoholic friend.
In the summer my W because friends with another young girl also of 28 years. She was telling me that she doesn’t think she wants to be friends with this person anymore either. She said this friend doesn’t have her things together, is aimless and has no purpose in life, and my W doesn’t want to be friends with people like that. I find this amusing for a few reasons. First, my W acted like this girl was her soul-mate or sister when they first became friends. As recently as this past Christmas, the girl was here visiting for a weekend, and my W acted like they were in college hanging out together. Second, I think my W is putting her ideals onto these younger friends. My W regrets her career choice (although she has a good career) and this girl was going to pursue what my W said she wanted to do. I guess my W was living vicariously through this girl, and now that this girl quit school, my W is losing interest in her. Finally, my W said she didn’t like people who can’t finish things, my W has started many things, mostly hobbies, in the past few years that she has dropped. I guess it is a little different because they are hobbies, but I thought it was a little hypocritical.
What is funny to me is that my W is throwing herself a b-day party on Saturday to which she has invited about 25 people, just about all of them younger than either of us. It is an adult-only party. I guess she became a little embarrassed for throwing herself a b-day party, not every guest knows it is her b-day. Instead she changed it to a first day of spring party. My W wants a very active social life and this continues.
My W still does jiu-jitsu and next weekend she is going out of town to see a fight with 3 guys that she has become friends with through jiu-jitsu. They will be staying overnight, and they rented a single room. During our walk, I found this out and told my W that I thought it was inappropriate that she would spend the night in a room with 3 guys. She took the position that “we’re just friends” “they are married or have girlfriends” and similar arguments. I didn’t make excuses or plead with her – I just held firm that I didn’t think it was appropriate and I didn’t like it. She agreed to rent a separate room.
All week, my W came home after going to gym without going out. This was good and something that we had talked about. All in all, my W is making a real effort on our relationship and responding to issues with going out. On Monday, she would normally have gone to the gym, but our D10 had a school event that I took her too, and my W stayed with the other two (D13 and D7). Actually, my W took them shopping for an outdoor table that she wanted to get before her party this Saturday. I think a year ago, my W would have gone to the gym, and I would have taken all 3 girls.
I think my W is still in MLC, but it is cycling down. I also think we have a more balanced relationship where we both have individual interests, husband-wife interests, and family interests. We give each other space now and then, which makes for a better relationship. I would say 3 years ago, we had little in the way of individual interests. I say my W is still in MLC because she has this need to do many things. She tries things on. She will be hot and heavy for something, goes all out, and then frequently it fizzles and she moves onto something else. What is interesting is that she either seems to forget some of the things she has done when deep in MLC, or she intentionally pretends it didn’t happen. This occurs to me when she talked about her young GFs and when she was telling me going away and sharing a hotel room with 3 guys who were ‘just friends’ was no big deal. When she was infactuated with a guy she told me they were ‘just friends’ and she had other ‘just friends’ that she flirted with and said inappropriate things to.
It's been awhile, but I thought worthwhile to post because I think my situation is improving the way many hope when they begin DB-ing. My W has changed very much. I no longer feel that she is looking elsewhere. She has changed from several years ago -- she is more interested in friendship, physical activity, new experiences, etc., but she is no longer thinking about divorce, new guys, and she is no longer focused on meeting mid-life.
I am posting this because I think my story is a success, and many successes are not posted here because when things go well, people feel good and no longer post to this forum.
I no longer feel the anxiety that I felt before, but I do think by DB-ing, I expect more from a relationship, and for this I am looking for more. My W is is definitely coming down from a MLC. She now includes me in things, she no longer seeks distance from me, and many other positive advances. In fact, she wore her wedding ring for the first time in several years this past week. I was lying in bed near her night-stand where she keeps her jewelry. She showed me a ring a girlfriend from Saudi Arabia gave her. A big gold ring with an arabic symbol on it. She said how she wanted to wear this to a party. I must have made a face because part of her not wearing the wedding ring was not wearing any ring. The next day when we went to a Christmas party, she wore our wedding ring. I did not remark on it, although I noticed. The next day we went to another Christmas party, and I remarked on her wearing the ring, saying, "I always liked that ring." One of my DB-ing goals was her wearing her ring.
Other changes is that she wants me to go with her. I am no longer excluded, but included. She doesn't behave as if it is the end of the world when family events intrude on her social life.
With that said, MLC has changed her. She is less "warm and cosy" than before, she is more interested in an active social life than before. I think my lesson is that MLC does change the person. They will not be the same as before.
Things are not perfect. I think what bothers me most is that it seems that many things she did during the height of MLC she forgets or does not admit. No big apologies. If you're going through a spouse with MLC, my advice is don't expect that they will come out the same as when they went in. Also, don't expect recognition of the process.
What do I have left? I've changed from DB-ing where you don't acknowledge many of their behaviors to where I ask for what I want. What we have not done yet is have a discussion of where we are. We have not had any deep discussions of our relationship. I am waiting for the right time. I guess I learned DB-ing so well, but I have not learned piecing very well.
Other positives I have noticed is the Christmas gifts I have received, my wife's love language is gifts, and one of my indicators has been what she has gifted me. During the height of MLC it was very poor, in fact, an after thought. This Christmas she spent way too much on me, and she obviously thought about me.
This was a positive.
Other changes about MLC is that my wife is less interested in sex. I think part of MLC was her interest in sex, in terms of being attractive to other men -- i.e., being young and attractive. This carried over into our relationship. She is less interested in sex now, and seems to accept many of the changes in getting old (e.g., joint pain, weight gain, ...).
I use this forum partly as a journal of where I've been. Also, since I've recieved so much good advice, I want to give back. I hope others find some good nuggets in my posts.
I'm glad you can back to post an update. Sounds like she's slowly coming out of the fog and warming back up to the real world. Take things slowly. Accept her for who she is today because she may not be the exact same person that she was when she entered MLC. It will take some time before she's completely out of the fog and you must continue to keep your expectations at "low" or even "zero" right now.
When the time is right, you'll have those relationship discussions, but for now, allow her to continue to feel safe in order for her to open up more and more about her feelings/emotions and yes, involving you in her day-to-day living, etc.
Continue as you have been because whatever you are doing is working...but keep the one thing you will need is more patience as time marches on.
Job, thanks for the reply.
She has opened up a lot and cares what I think. She is also more natural around the house, family, etc. This coming weekend we will visit her brother, who we have not seen in almost 3 years. Yet, another change back to something more normal.
Slow and steady. Keep doing whatever you are doing as it is working.
Remember, this is going to be a new relationship and will need to be treated as such. Okay?
It has been almost a year since I posted. I like the forum, have visited a few times since and thought to post again.
Over the past year, my relationship has been OK with my wife. Many things have happened in our life. I am now the manager of my department. My wife started school for nursing, it is online and doesn't take her away from the house -- if you read my story, she was considering schools where she would have to move away. My three girls are doing fine, growing into nice young ladies. I have hobbies and things I do, my wife has her things, and there are things we do together.
My wife and I traveled alone to Turkey in June, and with some friends to Mexico in October.
We have only rarely have had relationship discussions in the past year. One was about 3 months ago, and was instigated by me spying on her phone. I saw a message between her and her girlfriend, who lives on the other side of the country, and it was about the guy my W had a crush on. He has a GF and he texted something to my W. Her friend asked if he was "jealous of me", and my W answered, "why would anyone be jealous of my H". It really pissed me off. I confronted her, and her attitude was that it was as if she was talking to her girlfriend and it is not what she really feels. She compared to to guys talking in a bar and complaining about their wives.
She told me she just doesn't feel "in love" that much with me, and maybe it will come back.
On the other hand, she has been wearing her wedding ring because I asked her to. As I mentioned earlier, we have traveled alone together. In February of 2015, she would hug me in the morning and showed love much more. It decreased, and recently it increased slightly again. She will kiss me goodbye when she leaves. She invites me to join her in social activities. She does defer to my wish if I press it. A couple of weeks ago, the guy she had a crush on, invited her to join him to fly some other friends up to Napa Valley -- he has a pilot's license. She texted me about noontime about the invite, saying she wanted to go, but added a smiley face meant to convey anxiety about what I would think. I replied to the text, "I'd rather you not go". She replied, "OK". and she didn't go. When I got home, she was walking past the door, stopped, greeted me with a kiss, we spoke briefly, but because there were other people around that was it. We never spoke about it. I'm glad she didn't go, I do wish she would have turned it down, without asking me about it.
I mentioned this before, and I see it strongly. My wife's MLC has lead to permanent changes in her. She is more physically active, she is much more social, and she is much more assertive. Socially, it is as if she cannot say no to an invitation to go out.
In September I had scheduled for us to go to Retrovaille. She was going to go, but reluctantly. She didn't think it would make any difference, but would go to make me happy. We had to cancel and never went. Not sure if I should try again? She argues we don't have communication problems.
On the outer surface of our relationship, everything is good. However, I know internally because she has told me that she doesn't love me like she did. As I said, she'll kiss me goodbye, we have a regular sex life, and do things together, as a family, and individually. Really healthy. I think if none of the recent history of the past 3-5 years of our relationship existed, I would not even think twice about our relationship. Because of the history, knowing what she thinks, it bothers me from time to time.
We were in the hot tub last night, and we had a conversation that touched on age. My wife said how women after 40 lose their "value" much faster than guys. She also told me she is going to see her GYN in a couple weeks and will ask about hormone therapy. She said sex feels "muted" and she has a few other symptoms, albeit slight, of menopause. I wonder how much such therapy would change our relationship?
Go to C. That is a must to get the road map you need to get on track